Let's Take a Look at AMHR Now

[maryann]

Both Registrys have their own set of problems and hopefully they are both working on

fixing them. I have horses in both registries and am a member of both but we do most of

our business with AMHR. The reason for that is very simple for me. When I call the registry

at AMHR I have never been made to feel like the questions I was asking were stupid or that

I had no right bothering them on the phone at that time.THey have helped me throught some

complicated registration problems with horses I have purchased whose papers were not up to

date. They have always been pleasant in every department and answered my questions and

treated me like the paid member that I am.However I can't say that about my experiences with

AMHA. Maybe I called at the wrong time, and maybe my questions were stupid , But I am still a

paid member and deserve to be respected as a member . I feel like they just want my

money and not my opinion or my questions.

This is just my opinion and my experiences. Maryann

 

[skylineminis]

Ok, now really there was NO Illegal meeting !!! It was done at a Board meeting .. with all Directors present.. There is no sense in stirring up old issues.

Sorry Belinda but I have to disagree. That meeting was an illegal meeting. It went against what was printed in the By-Laws of ASPC/AMHR and was held at an improper time. And, yes, I'm still really ticked about it, not just for myself but, for others that had a new breeding program that would allow them to get horses registered into AMHR. It cut them off in mid breeding. I personally was against the new type horses but, it still wasn't fair to them. There was no notice given to the membership that the registry was being closed. They just did it. The closing was voted down at the previous Convention and the Board decided to close it wthout notice. I had AMHA horses I planed on getting registered into AMHR but,with the outragous cost, I was prevented doing it. Actually, my situation had nothing to do with things. It was just plain wrong for the BOD to do that to it's membership. It shows how much the BOD pays attention to it's membership and how much impact going to the Convention matters. The BOD is going to do what it wants, no matter what. They had every option of backing out of their decision but didn't take it. Again, I'm still very bitter about it and it will never go away until they undo what was done illegally.

 

[skylineminis]

Prices of everything go up that is life again another fact we might not like but it is reality. I

I get that you are happy breeding and showing your unregistered minis and choose not to particpate in either registry and that is fine. It seems to work for you and you are happy.

Sure prices go up, but it wasn't needed. It just forced more people out of the registered horse business, like myself. Why spend $65 to join a club that doesn't care about letting their membership know what's going on and wht's being voted on at the next meeting (sure it's in the Journal, but, it comes out after the voting is done. That's a little late.). Pay the cost of getting the horse registered, doing the photos, which I am totally in favor of (I suggested it years ago) and can still only sell for$300-$800? Unregistered horses sell for the same price. They're still the same good or bad horse, just not out the money for being registered.

Then, you have to spend the same, if not more (DNA) for AMHA. Where does it end? The horses are still a luxury item and not all people can afford them anymore, not to mention the possible new people. You start telling them about all these fees and they put their hands up and say, "I don't think so." That's not what I call promoting miniature horses.

I'm not against registered horses but, the prices have prohibited me to keep participating, giving what money I get on disability away for no reason. I still own AMHA/AMHR/WCMHR and PtHA horses and I still breed one or two mares a year. I maintain the stallion reports just in case someone wants to get one of my unregistered horses registered. It's just going to be on their bank roll, not mine.

 

[Minimor]

Skyline--As I recall there was a short window of time where you could have registered your AMHA horses for the old $50 fee. I know many people that took advantage of that, and perhaps you should have too?? It wasn't an instant increase.

 

[tagalong]

Julie, I think you have missed the point entirely when it comes to all the AMHA posts on here. People have been focusing on AMHA because of one thing--the foolish rule change regarding the measurement spot. That is why there is such a fuss about who gets to vote and how they go about it. That is what it's all about

Ummmm - No. The AMHA lynching was going on long before that. As I said in another thread - if some of those who constantly see conspiracies in everything AMHA does and find fault in everything turned the same kind of scrutiny and microscopic evaluations on other registries/associations, they might have their eyes opened - or perhaps simply fall back on suggesting things like...

Is this what they call a "diversionary tactic?" Are we looking to transfer the "hot seat"?

...and hint at yet another conspiracy of some kind. IMO having that narrow of a focus does not help solve anything. For anyone.

I don't think Julie missed the point at all. I think she was illustrating a point - and how a lot of this AMHA scrutiny/bashing/trashing has been coming across.

Many of the things Julie mentioned - are the same items that are brought up in at times rather frenzied posts about AMHA. Over and over again. It is okay to demand a lot of this stuff from AMHA - and not expect the same procedures elsehwere? Does. Not. Compute.

So - we are only allowed to say such things about AMHA? Some feel that nothing about AMHR is ever to be doubted or questioned or clarified? AMHA must make full disclosure of everything that goes on - and yet anything goes elswhere? That is the impression some of you are giving. No - I am not defending AMHA or even remotely suggesting that all is well. But watching/reading a lot of the single-minded AMHA blood-letting that some delight in gets a bit tiresome - and at times any good points that might be made and discussed are simply lost in yet another tirade and wave of conspiracy theories.

Overall, Julie, I don't see that you have anything specific against AMHR, you're just drawing at straws and making a very poor attempt at bashing ASPC/AMHR. When you don't even know the proper name of the association (or are just too childish to use it) then your entire post becomes laughable. Childish. May I say that you do it well. I do hope that you feel better now.

Childish?? Coming back with remarks like that ^^^ is not childish??

Wow.

I did not see Julie's comments as bashing AMHR per se - just demonstrating the almost hysterical way some have gone after AMHA. And yet - posts like that about AMHA are applauded and cheered and high-fived. Put the shoe on the other foot - or the other 3 feet - or even suggest that things might get a bit OTT at times - and you are "childish". Or sneered at. Or insulted....

None of that is conducive to problem solving - or communication. JMO.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Opened up a nice can of worms there now didn't you = LOL!!!

Both registries have issues/problems and unfortunately here the 'witch-hunt' seems to always focus on AMHA - that I've never understood.

As we do have a large herd I do get to deal with both registries often on paperwork and have attended both conventions. Personally I prefer AMHA for papework processing, but the politics of both registries turns my off completely. At the local level I attend the AMHR Club meetings regularly and enjoy them - so again it's personal preference.

In 2006 when ASPC/AMHR decided at the Convention to 'change' the fees for reserving ranch names - what was 'discussed' at the meeting on (Friday/Saturday?) was not what happened that following Monday! No advanced warning, no lead in time - just a done deal!

So as far as members having a voice - well both are lacking!

I don't think this thread was intended to be mean-spirited - controversial yes - but let's be realistic people both organizations have plenty of room for improvement!

0000000

And to Sheila that says there aren't any activities in Northern California - well there are two AMHR Clubs - Area VII SP&MH Association and Valley Sierra. The Area VII National Show is this coming weekend in Santa Rosa (May 30-June 1). I'm surprised you haven't heard about it as it is listed on the ASPC/AMHR site, has been advertised in the Journal, online and on the Forum here. The club website is - Area VII MH&SP Assoc

The majority of AMHR shows are held in Southern California, but the value on R horses in Northern California is not what it was a few years ago so Sheila you might want to give it another look!

Sorry for hijacking this thread!!!

000000

 

[skylineminis]

Skyline--As I recall there was a short window of time where you could have registered your AMHA horses for the old $50 fee. I know many people that took advantage of that, and perhaps you should have too?? It wasn't an instant increase.

Yes there was and I should have but, I honestly was waiting for his first foal to be born to see if he was going to be used for breeding or not. Unfortunately, his first colt is a pretty good foal, now a two year old palomino. He can be regitered AMHA because the mare is double and the Sire is "A" only.

Then, I fell on short money times and didn't get the extra $50 to do it so, I missed out. Sure my fault but, before they closed the registry, I could have registered him for $15 and I would have taken the chance on what he produced. I had to wait until he was three to breed for AMHR even though for AMHA there is no age limit. And there's the cost of bringing him permanent and DNA testing. All of this and not knowing if he's going to be a breeding stallion or not??? I was trying to be responsible and wait. Now it's bit me in the foot.

Will I spent $65 to join AMHR, $75 to join AMHA, pay for expired papers and pay for DNA for the stallion ($135 approx.) then pay $465 to get him registed with AMHR? Not in this lifetime, I don't think, especially when you can buy an ex show stallion for $500 in this area??!!!! Now you tell me, is it worth it???

 

[Fred]

ANY breeding is a gamble. If you had the chance to do it when it was $50 then you should have done it then, and there was sufficient notice that the fees were going up. AMHA is more expensive and I am STILL waiting for my daughters youth card that I sent in for back the beginning of april. Not only that the last time I had paperwork done [expedited no less] for a show in june I got the papers late in august after finally calling a couple of times. I got the R papers on my colt overnight. BOTH registries have their problems. Any time someone says something negative its taken as "bashing". What they really ought to do is look at the problem work together and fix it. I personally prefer R because in the area I live in there are many A shows but the attitude we are better than you is what turns me totally off. Don't get me wrong we have A shows that are good but the majority are very snotty. Linda

 

[Laura]

Ok, Well....... I'm a member of both......but after showing in both (AMHA & AMHR)...... I DO like and support AMHA more......

After going to Nationals for the past 2 years..... I do have a problem with AMHR and would like to see the Amature classes changed........ and do NOT know who I would need to go about asking "why" they don't have it different and if it could ever be changed.........

WHere I show in the halter and like to show quite a few youngesters...... I like the AMHA MUCH better because there is a Amature Level 1 and Level 2 class. And in AMHR there's just ONE class......and especially when you get to Nationals...... when you are competing in a AMature halter class with (no-effense) with Erica & LTD minatures.........COME ON! Those judges know who those people are!

AND....... you also have the ponies & miniatures together and ALL size brackets in the amature classes! They NEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD to break that up..... with having a Level 1 and Level 2 for the amature classes..... I think it would be MUCH more fair for showing!!!! Or at least have a height requirement or something to split that up a little bit more. That's what I see........

Also I really like that there's just 90 some classes with AMHA and where I have "A" miniatures..... I feel like my horses are A horses and not R horses......

That's just my opinion and that's what I would REALLY like to see change with AMHR.....

[SIZE=12pt]I'd love to see different height classes and levels for Amateur too. I'd also love to see the Amateur Owned & trained by type class in ASPC/AMHR. *I* am eligible to show Ammy, I have my card as a mattter of fact

[/SIZE]

Now, since I trained professionally for MANY years and had many, many Nationals Championships, I would think I should show in different classes than newbies. For Erica and Lisa D, I think we need a level *3* Amateur~LOL Those ladies ROCK!

Now as far as ponies in mini classes, yes there sure are, but AMHA has it's share of shetlands too

 

[HGFarm]

There was actually quite a window of opportunity to register from A to R before it closed- I did some myself so all of mine would be double registered. R can't be held responsible for anyone's lack of finances to do what they would like to do. And, a horse can still be registered R if it has A papers.

 

[Fred]

Also you may be able to hardship from A to R but why can't you hardship from R to A? Interesting question isn't it? Linda

 

[Minimor]

Skyline refers to $15 to register--that's really going back to the old days!!

And Skyline--I have never understood why so many Mini people wait and wait and wait to register anything. I have always figured that if a horse is good enough for me to even consider breeding, then he/she is worth the cost of registration BEFORE I breed. Way better, IMO, to pay the necessary fees and have the paperwork in order before breeding, and that way if anything should happen.....and I always think in terms of the mare or stallion dying and leaving a foal that is ineligible for registration because the parent wasn't registered, or wasn't DNA'd....but really in Miniatures "something happening" can also include the registry closing, or fees taking a huge increae....well, if the paperwork is all in advance then there is still no problem getting the foal registered. Cheap insurance I figure! And of course the most gorgeous horse could prove to be a dud in the breeding shed, but like I said, if I have enough confidence in the horse to breed with him, then he's worth the cost of the paperwork. If I'm so doubtful about his ability to be a good sire, I just won't bother breeding with him. However, that's up to each individual, obviously. Not much point, though, in blaming the registries for one's uncertainty or lack of confidence in their horse.

 

[OhHorsePee]

Holy Moses! I for one am very happy being involved with ASPC/AMHR. If you don't like 'em don't join 'em. Have you ever tried an AMHR show?

 

[Dontworrybeappy]

Why is the response to discussions about problems with "company X" to attack "company Y" ?

 

[skylineminis]

There was actually quite a window of opportunity to register from A to R before it closed- I did some myself so all of mine would be double registered. R can't be held responsible for anyone's lack of finances to do what they would like to do. And, a horse can still be registered R if it has A papers.

I never said they (AMHR) were responsible for my finances. But, when they price some out of belonging, they are part of the problem. If I had known they were going to close the registry, I would have put off paying something else so I could get them regestered. That's what kills me about the people on the forums and email lists. They assume everyone has an unlimited bankroll. Some of us don't. I do without to have my horses. I used to show and I did make it to three National shows before I quit. I was very instrumental in getting AMHR into the state of Texas. So, don't bash me and say I don't like AMHR. I fought tooth and nail for them. I believed in the Registry and then, I feel, they started going for the money instead of the having fun with the minis. That's just my opinion and I'm allowed that. And, it wasn't that long ago that registering cost $15. That's how fast they upped the prices.

Back when I was showing, I was single (still am and plan to stay so), worked a full time job for $7.50 and hour, took care of my 30+ head of minis and did all my own training. Just wanted to let you see where a financial burden might fall upon someone when the fees skyrocket (both AMHA and AMHR). All of my stallions (all 6 breedng age ones) except the one in question are all double registered. Just the one is AMHA only.

 

[skylineminis]

Skyline refers to $15 to register--that's really going back to the old days!!

And Skyline--I have never understood why so many Mini people wait and wait and wait to register anything. I have always figured that if a horse is good enough for me to even consider breeding, then he/she is worth the cost of registration BEFORE I breed. Way better, IMO, to pay the necessary fees and have the paperwork in order before breeding, and that way if anything should happen.....and I always think in terms of the mare or stallion dying and leaving a foal that is ineligible for registration because the parent wasn't registered, or wasn't DNA'd....but really in Miniatures "something happening" can also include the registry closing, or fees taking a huge increae....well, if the paperwork is all in advance then there is still no problem getting the foal registered. Cheap insurance I figure! And of course the most gorgeous horse could prove to be a dud in the breeding shed, but like I said, if I have enough confidence in the horse to breed with him, then he's worth the cost of the paperwork. If I'm so doubtful about his ability to be a good sire, I just won't bother breeding with him. However, that's up to each individual, obviously. Not much point, though, in blaming the registries for one's uncertainty or lack of confidence in their horse.

I guess that's one way to look at it, but, I don't. This stallion is a very well bred stallion but, papers don't make the horse. I used him for two reasons. To see if he would refine a mare and pass on his extremely long neck. Personlly, I think his neck is too long for his body but, he did what I was hoping he would do. I'm willing to take a chance on a new horse. Some aren't. I look at a horse to see if that horse will complement my mares. What you think might happen, may not, so why spend money to get him double registered at a high price? I value money more than that. If the foal didn't work out, I just lost a year on a mare. No biggie. Not all horses are made to be halter horses. Fortunately, the cross produced a wonderful palomino colt and he will stay on to become another one of my sires. The colt can be registered AMHA if I choose. Not sure I will because I'm not really playing the registered game right now. Sales are at rock bottom and everyone has their own dozen stallions. So, it's nothing to me to get or not to get my horses registered. I only breed one or two mares a year and I make sure to breed only mares that are double registered to this stalion so the foal can be registered, if I choose, AMHA.

Just because you have a halter Champion horse doean't mean you're going to get a Champion foal out of a cross. You have two gene pools and how they mesh, gives you the results. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Minimor]

They assume everyone has an unlimited bankroll. Some of us don't.

I sure don't assume that about anyone--I know all about having no money for extras and I even know it can be hard to come up with the $$$ for real necessities sometimes. But I'm not going to blame a registry for pricing me out of the game.

So, it's nothing to me to get or not to get my horses registered.

Then I don't see why you're bitter about the registry being closed and fees going up from $15 to $50, and now to $200 or $400.

 

[skylineminis]

They assume everyone has an unlimited bankroll. Some of us don't.

I sure don't assume that about anyone--I know all about having no money for extras and I even know it can be hard to come up with the $$$ for real necessities sometimes. But I'm not going to blame a registry for pricing me out of the game.

So, it's nothing to me to get or not to get my horses registered.

Then I don't see why you're bitter about the registry being closed and fees going up from $15 to $50, and now to $200 or $400.

I'm sorry you can't see what I'm talking about. I'm not blaming the registries for me being broke but they've priced me and many of my friends out of registered horses.

I'm bitter at how the BOD closed the AMHR registry after the membership voted not to close it at the previous covention and they did it at an illegal meeting. They could have recended the action but, they chose not to.

As for me registering my horses or not, I'm refering to the fact that registered and non registered horses sell for the same price in my area so why would I want to spend $200-$400 to get a horse registered when you can only sell the horse for maybe $400-$600 if you're lucky. Why make only $200 profit when you can make the whole amount as your money and not give it to the Registry? And, people that know me know I don't raise pet quality horses. I have the same National bloodline horses that are winning in shows and they're not slugs. I've got a Buckaroo bred stud that is a really nice horse and I can't even get $800 for him. Can't even get a bite on him. Every horse on his tip side is Champion horses and his bottom side is the Legendary "Little Trigger" which was a syndicated stallion. In fact, he's Little Triggers last son since Little Trigger passed away. And I can't even get a bite for $800. I'll keep him and look at him before I sell him for less than that. His only fault is that he produces funny colored foals. There hasn't been one yet that I can tell you what color they are. That's why I'm no longer using him for breeding.

I think I was the first person in Texas to have a Kohoka bred horse and they are highly sought after now. I have a Call Me Sir son, I have a Rhoten's Little Dandy stallion. The list goes on. I wsa a member of AMHR for over 20 years I believe. Same with AMHA. So I'm not a newbee. I feel I was instrumental in getting the Journal in the size it in today. It used to be a small magazine. I know I was instrumental in getting AMHR into the state of Texas. I fought long and hard for it and finally got it in.

Enough on this subject for me. I've given my views and my beliefs and I don't plan to say any more about it right now. Again, sorry if you "don't get it." I don't know how to say it any plainer.

 

[disneyhorse]

I personally find that owning, registering, and showing the Miniature Horse and the Shetland Pony to be EXTREMELY reasonable... VERY CHEAP!

All of you complaining about a couple hundred bucks... why don't you switch to another breed and discover that a couple hundred bucks will get you NOWHERE.

I have had no problem maintaining several registered horses and showing them at the National level on a very tight budget. I am by no means rich; I live in an apartment and I pay monthly board for all of my horses.

I can show a miniature horse at the AMHR National level for about $1,000 per horse which includes shipping, stalls, entries, and all the little extra do-dads that go along with that. Granted, they don't show with a trainer, but that is my average cost from each time I have been to Nationals. And I haul all the way from CA.

Now, I just paid entry fees for TWO horses to TWO National Area shows. My show fees (classes, stalls) were under $400.

My friend was aghast at that. She said an itty bitty local show for her Andalusians will cost approx. $1,500 per horse. She has spent $800 registering one of her Andalusians (in two Registries).

Try to have some perspective. Yes, it's more expensive than "the good old days" but it's a sign of the times.

If you have difficulty affording registered horses and want to breed and show, perhaps you need to downsize your herd to a manageable level.

I have had only one AMHA registered horse, and the fees were more expensive than AMHR at the time. The show fees were double what the AMHR local show fees were, so I only showed him AMHR to get more bang for my buck (we got many National titles together).

But I don't feel EITHER registry is unreasonable in fees. They are actually extremely reasonable compared to the rest of the horse world.

Andrea

 

[user 488]

I personally find that owning, registering, and showing the Miniature Horse and the Shetland Pony to be EXTREMELY reasonable... VERY CHEAP!

All of you complaining about a couple hundred bucks... why don't you switch to another breed and discover that a couple hundred bucks will get you NOWHERE.

Just had to comment........I couldn't agree more. A couple hundred bucks might pay for your stall at Arabian US Nationals.

I can show a miniature horse at the AMHR National level for about $1,000 per horse which includes shipping, stalls, entries, and all the little extra do-dads that go along with that. Granted, they don't show with a trainer, but that is my average cost from each time I have been to Nationals. And I haul all the way from CA.

You might be able to show one at our Nationals for about $5000. total if you do it yourself and most will not because the competition is too stiff. If you are paying a trainer your expenses will be about $7,500. to $10,000. (flat rate with hauling) and this does not include your show fees and stall. Then tack on your expenses. Then add up about a grand a month for keeping with a trainer because trainers will not show a horse at Nationals unless it is in training with them. Vet and farrier bills are separate. A new set of show feet is over $200. every 6 weeks. A catch lead at US can cost upwards of $1000............if you can find somebody. That is just leading the horse in and out of the ring.

But I don't feel EITHER registry is unreasonable in fees. They are actually extremely reasonable compared to the rest of the horse world.

I have to giggle myself when I see how much it cost to show a Mini. I only could wish for those prices because even 30 years ago it was not as cheap/Andrea

Here is a copy of standard fees for shows in our area of US. As you can see this does not include any of you......as owners......expenses, vet, farrier, plus other things listed at the bottom. It does not include your monthly training which is about $750....not including extras like vet and farrier.

CLASS 'A' SHOWS $1,000.00/ plus mileage

REGION 12 $1,800.00**

REGION 14 $2,200.00**

REGION 15 $2,200.00**

NSH Finals $2,700.00**

YOUTH Nationals $5,500.00**

SCOTTSDALE $6,300.00**

U.S. NATIONALS $6,000.00**

10% of Futurity Monies This means the trainer (training facility) gets this much of your winnings.

10% National Winnings Again......the same.

*All charges are PLUS Stall and Entry Fees, early arrival and bedding. An average entry and stall fee can be upwards of $500 for ONE CLASS.

** Includes transportation, trainer's and grooms' expenses .

Just thought I would throw this up here so some could make a comparison.