Letter to the editor

[LaVern]

I had turned this thing off, and was all curled up in bed when I got to thinking about loosing my reputation. I started to laugh so hard that I had to get up. I am afraid my reputation was lost years ago.

 

[vickie gee]

I will not comment, as I'd likely put my foot in my mouth, but I have read every post and find it all quite interesting. And, I learned a thing or two; like I didn't know Falabellas had to go through an inspection to be hardshipped.

Ditto that. Not the foot in mouth, but the reading and learning part.

 

[kaykay]

What I respect about Renee is she has strong convictions and stands by them. And shes not afraid to voice her opinion no matter what.

Renee and I have got into some pretty lengthy and sometimes heated discussions, but I always learn from her and walk away better for it.

I have said for years I want to meet you in person and have coffee!

When this topic first came up from Renee, I said I totally get where shes coming from. I also totally get why the registry did it. I can clearly see both sides of this.

When I went to convention 09 I spoke out against the rule proposal to let any gelding hardship in. Why? Because that would be hugely bad for breeders that sell geldings and bad for the registry in general. It would further drive down the price of a gelding if anyone could hardship any gelding in. Bad bad bad.

This is not far off from that. Its the same but different.

I said then and I still think that there is a bigger reason this was done. AMHA is supposedly closing to hardshipping soon. Maybe AMHR did this to get all those people and then close the AMHR book? Could be a last chance sale? But I am just guessing.

Nothing wrong with a good debate but people need to stop making insulting comments to people personally and just stay on the topic.

 

[Songcatcher]

No, I am definitely NOT saying two wrongs make a right! I never have believed that about ANYTHING! I am merely trying to say that I know how it felt to be on the opposite end of that example that you shared in your post Freeland. I am not saying here that I agree with Renee, as I don't. I too think it is a wonderful opportunity for AMHR and it's members to have that available to them, but I just wanted to say, I can relate to how you said you felt in your post.

Sorry Mona. I mis-read you. I took it that you were defending Renee's attitude. My apologies.

 

[alongman]

For those people who have attended ANY type of auction sale recently - can you tell me the prices that were seen on registered animals? I went to a public auction (not one of the highly publicized mini/shetland auctions) and saw REGISTERERED miniature horses selling for $10. TEN BUCKS!? Are you kidding me? The people sitting next to me were developing a "breeding program" based on these animals - the thing is, the animals WERE NOT bad..... I think Renee is making a decision on her spending as we all are during these economic hard times. Do I spend $20 on registration or save that money. From my knowledge of Renee and her animals, the ones who DO get registered are VERY much deserving of representing the breed, the ones who do not Renee feels need homes with other jobs (the ones who she feels won't measure easily, the ones that aren't as showy). I applaud the people on this forum who have stated the other jobs their "unregistered" horses have assumed - I too have placed an unregistered horse into a great home. He is now a pinto superstar with a young girl. I am proud of that fact and if she calls and wants another unregistered horse, then I hope that I have one for her (or I will send her to Renee). If the day comes that this girl chooses to sell her horse, what will become of him? I can't answer that, but I can say that I was careful to find him a home that will watch out for his best interest as it seems Renee has done as well.

 

[Karen S]

Well, I'm one of those Shetland breeders that purchased a very nice Michigan bred mare that was small enough to be INSPECTED, MEASURED, and sign off on by the head of the ASPC/AMHR Stewards and a very well respected Judge that also raises both Miniatures and Shetlands. Unfortunately I HAD to pay the higher "Hardship" price of $200 to have that already Shetland registered mare AMHR papered. She so far was the only one that we had that met these strict requirements. I personally would have LOVED to have had the opportunity to pay the 1/2 price hardshipping fee, but I like many others, saved my money up and paid the higher fee. This mare is now bred to a AMHR National Unanimous Grand Champion Stallion and will probably throw an awsome foal that will be the next AMHR National Grand Champion when it grows up.

Karen

 

[LaVern]

Good Morning, Kay Kay you have got to come for coffee. I bet we could laugh till our tummies hurt. I got a big bag of Dunkin Donut coffee for Christmas.

It says to put a heaping tablespoon per 6 oz cup. Wow, It takes me back to 67 in San Fransico.

Back to topic. I can sure see that others do not feel like I do. I don't mean to bash AMHA. I run a lot of AMHA horses. And I think they do so many things better than AMHR does. How they show them and inspections and the DNA.

But, I stand by my belief that the lowering of the hardship fee, while it may be good individually, reinforces the belief, why should I do all that AMHR paper work. Don't bother you can always slap them in later if you need to.

I was so glad to find out that the Fallaballa must be inspected. I feel all horses hard shipped in should be. Most smaller breeders that I know have already done it. But there are still a few big timers that still scoff at it. And I can imagine how they would feel if there 32 inch horses all of a sudden became a B in AMHR.

 

[Sandee]

I was going to just lurk on this but here I go foot into mouth. I'm not a big, not even a "little", breeder. I SHOW because I love to show. IMO (which is worth about 2 cents), I would NEVER buy a horse that is not registered. If my mare turns out to be bred, I'll register the foal as I would never sell a horse that was not registered. That's just how much I believe in the AMHR registery. If it's not good enough to show and/or breed, then the horse has no value to me.

I paid a ton of money for a baby years back that I couldn't get 1/2 that for now even though she has HOFs and will do everything. But if I hadn't paid a lot for her, when she was very sick I might have opted to have her put down instead of paying the vet bill. I also want to be sure all my horses are trained to drive and whatever else they show a talent for be it hunter or halter as I want them to be valued beyond just the fact they can "reproduce" for money!

I was raised with unregistered riding horses that were good for little else than crawling on to ride the pasture. But we don't live that way any more. There aren't large pastures with places to explore so I've turned to showing. I love my horses. I'm passionate about my horses. I realize that not everyone has the same goals as I do as I said this is MO. Maybe we should all realize that.

 

[LaVern]

I know that so many feel that a horse has no use without its papers, and that you are doing the horse a disservice not to register it. I disagree, but respect your opinions. In fact I sometimes think that we do a disservice to some horses when we paper them. A miniature horse with papers is sometimes more likely to be bred no matter what the quality.

Which brings me to someone, that many consider to be one of the premiere breeders of ASPC/AMHR

Years ago, I would visit with Audrey Barret (I don't know if I spelt her name right.) She was so nice and invited me to her home and gave me advise. The kids were little so I couldn't go, but oh, I wish I could have. One of the things I remember her telling me, was that if she wasn't satisfied with a pony she gave it away. She did not sell it to be a breeding animal she just gave it away. And did not incorporate it into her herd. Now that is breeding and that is culling. It might seem harsh, but that is how you improve. Save the best and find homes for the rest. Look at the legacy she left.

Man I wish I would have listened to her better and not put my name on half of the horses I have.

 

[bfogg]

I think there is one thing we can all agree on is why we got these little loves in the first place.

We just love them!!!!!!!!!!

So maybe we can just agree to disagree on some things.But agree that we all come from the position that our horses have our heart strings, so we are all good meaning people when it comes to them. We all want to just be happy and love our horses and keep them to the best of our ability.

We have proven on this forum we are a family and like a family we will bicker now and then.

But in the end we are a family and we need to remember to be kind and play nice.

Hugs

Bonnie

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Nevermind

 

[tagalong]

We have given away horses that were not to be in the breeding program and yet were still very nice individuals - but I wish they had all gone with papers. Why? Because when we are overrun with horses of all sizes as the auctions can demonstrate... at least if they have their papers with them, they have a past. They have history. They have a name. They have a reason that someone might think better of them. It showed that someone cared. IMO those papers are their best ticket for a future. WIthout them, they are just more of the terrified, nameless minis that go through the auction marts - or that you see running wild and untouched in someone's back field. If mini breeders all followed the ways of the responsible dog breeders who feel they are responsible for a pup for his entire life - and that if he is ever unwanted or needs to be rehomed, that he WILL come BACK to them.. well, if we had that approach, we would all be better off. Including the horses.

Somewhere out there is an AMHA/AMHR show gelding who also did well as a junior stallion. Once he became a gelding and the next show season was over, he and his full brother were given away. I had no idea where they went - I was not at home when they left. I have heard that they had been passed on through two other homes - and then split up... and now the trail is cold. That gelding could walk in the ring this year and still do very well. Where is he now? No way to know. Will someone look at him and see what he is? I hope so. IMO his papers should have gone with him.

What do they call it....KARMA???

Karma? Why even go that route? Why can one not just see the good about both registries without the sneering, sniping and snapping - that got old a very long time ago.

Speaking of A Long Time Ago.... way back when, AMHA had the only decent shows in our area. R shows were rather ragtag and still stumbling along. We were in an AMHR halter class back then with our immaculately turned out AMHA/AMHR mare - and yet the horses on either side of us were poorly groomed and in bad weight. Some of the handlers were in there in dirty jeans and T shirts - and this was a "big" show. When our mare won the class, some people complained about politics (as usual) instead of considering the horses themselves and the presentation. There was a huge chasm between the two kinds of shows then - at least in our area and where friends lived and showed as well.

Slowly the R shows in our area began to catch up to the A shows... and things improved all across the board to where things stand today. But I confess I get sick and tired of the R is Better - no - A is better crap that so many of these threads dissolve into.

 

[bluerogue]

I know that so many feel that a horse has no use without its papers, and that you are doing the horse a disservice not to register it.

Renee, I don't respond to a lot of threads here for varying reasons (usually time related), but I felt it important enough to respond here. First, I LOVE your program, and what you produce. Your program is outstanding not only for the consistant quality of your horses, but also for the ideals you stand by with your program. I wish I had more space and money so I would be able to add some of your success to my own program.

In some ways I'm on the fence about papers, as you can't breed them, you can't love them, and you can't spend time with them. However, they do help raise value on horses, prove ancestry, and allow showing in various venues. I think papers are important, but it's also an individuals choice whether or not to take advantage of them. So many people don't update the papers it makes it difficult. I've sold horses on applications before, but I've always supplied the apps with the horse. If they choose not to send it in because they just want a pet, and papers aren't important, they can change their mind at a later date (provided they don't lose the app!).

As far as the fighting versus discussion issue, I think it comes from a matter of perspective. You are a strong minded person, and some people tend to take statements more seriously than you meant them. I've run into this myself, and it can cause chaos if left alone long enough. I'm a pretty sensitive person, so this kind of thing hits me hard sometimes. I have to admit, when I first read some of the posts in this thread, it very much did come off as fighting. It has started to settle into discussion now, which is a good thing. People are passionate about their horses, and no one wants to be "insulted" (quoted because I saw a number of people make comments that implied they felt this way).

 

[LaVern]

Yes, that is true. Some people are very sensitive and I am not. I love when people tell me exactly how they feel.

 

[disneyhorse]

I don't understand where all the animosity is coming from, from a simple discount in fees? There is also something called tact, which is hard enough to convey with the written word and thats why people get flustered often.

I just fail to see why a horse is magically worth something if a handful of people can pay $200, but automatically worth nothing if that handful of people pay $100 less. $100 in the grand scheme of things is chump change, it's a tank of gasoline.

 

[LaVern]

There is no animosity, on my part anyway. If so many people think that it is good thing to drop the fee, than I had better accept it as the wishes of the whole. I don't have to agree, but you don't always get what you want. Thats life. But I think it is a good thing to let people know where you stand,if you feel strongly about something.

 

[slv]

This is a little off topic, but not really. It justifies registration to me in any case, with the exception of dwarfs, of course. I purchased a bred mare in 2000 and in 2001 she foaled a pet quality stud colt. I sold that colt to a good home on application, they gelded him and he is their pet. Same mare, colt in 2002 that was better quality than the other, but still just a colt. The same people bought him, gelded him and he is their third miniature. Long story short and four "unregistered" colts later I decided to offer the mare for sale. I had a very difficult time selling this very pretty "Blue Boy" granddaughter because the studbook showed NO foals for the past five years. I didn't take a lot of photos back then and it was really just my "word"....I have found that people really want to see proof and some buyers put a lot of emphasis on the Studbook. I finally got the mare sold, but for less than I gave, of course...LOL..But I always register my foals. I try to get photos by at the very latest one week of age and send them on in, because it is so worth that $20 to me to prove that this mare can produce foals. Just my thoughts and what I learned from my experience.

 

[HGFarm]

I didnt know about the Falabellas and hardshipping but AMHA does require inspection to hardship, along with DOUBLE DNA, photos, etc....

I just dont understand how my AMHA horse, who was hardshipped AMHR, would become less valued whether I paid $100 or $200 to get her AMHR papers? She is still double registered. Did it change her conformation? Her show records? Make her a better broodmare? She is still the same horse. Since I paid $200 to get her hardshipped, she must be of MUCH greater value now than if I had gotten a discount on her registration fee?

I just don't get all the hoopla about the discounted fee and making horses 'worthless'. How about increasing the value of the nice horse that was just hardshipped in from another registry? Are people afraid of more competition?

I just don't see how it's a negative thing or making anyone else's horses worth less- unless they are sold without papers period. Now there's something that makes them worth a lot less. Since it's only a few bucks to register a foal, does that mean the foal is only worth a few bucks? LOL

 

[Mona]

Sorry Mona. I mis-read you. I took it that you were defending Renee's attitude. My apologies.

No problem.

I wasn't agreeing with Renee's opinion, but I do respect her right to feel so strongly about it.

Karma? Why even go that route? Why can one not just see the good about both registries without the sneering, sniping and snapping - that got old a very long time ago.

Since you quoted me, I am assuming you are referring to me as being "one" that you mentioned in your post, so with that in mind, I will respond as if it were so.

I most certainly DO see the good in BOTH registries! I always have. You are basing that statement on my past involvement regarding CARE, but you obviously didn't know enough about me, my thoughts or preferences if you feel that I do not see the good in both registries! I have ALWAYS supported both. I have spent thousands of $$ in AMHA....far more than I ever spent in AMHR. If I was so dead set against them, as you seem to think I was/am, they certainly would not have gotten my money, and THAT you can be sure of.

 

[Riverrose28]

I've read the orginal post three times and it seems to me that you are upset because the AMHA horses are being hardshipped in without inspection, is this correct? Maybe I'm confused, so correct me if I'm wrong. I am also one of those old time AMHR breeders and have bought many AMHA only horses then turned around and hardshipped them into AMHR, because I seem to like the 35 to 36" minis and they therefore lose their AMHA papers. So what does that leave me with AMHR registered straight up minis. Are you saying that they are now going to go down in value? I also know I haven't kept up with all the latest trends as far as showing goes, and the horse that the judges are now looking for in the ring, but hope to in the future if I live long enough. Help me out here, do I sell all my AMHR horses as pets, even they are Champions. PLease let me know so I don't spend any more of our hard earned money cause I was planning on hardshipping two AMHA mares that I have now into AMHR.