Lost another foal

[mshasta88]

I’m not sure that it’s bleeding that happens but I do understand that there is still nutrient exchange between the placenta and the mother via blood flow as long as the placenta is still attached to the uterine wall. Now follow me here, if the foals cord doesn’t break then it doesn’t trigger that clotting factor and the blood would pool in the placenta. Now I was curious and did some research. It didn’t say anything about bleeding out but here is a quote from the University of Illinois “In this rare situation the mare is passing the foal and the placenta simultaneously. When that happens, the foal is being deprived of oxygen, as the connection of the placenta to the uterus is its source.” This is suggestive that the foal suffocates as the cause of death and not bleeding. Thanks for raising the question. But it is still a mistery that some would be fine will others would pass away. There must be something going on in the birthing process that triggers some foals to breath and some not to? What does everyone else think?

 

[JAX]

University of Illinois is describing a classic red bag birth. In that situation the foal would suffocate not bleed to death. Ok just re-read what you posted and yes i agree with what you wrote.

 

[mshasta88]

Yes, I knew it was describing a red bag delivery, but what kind of studies have been done showing placement of the placenta, don’t you think that it is possible that theoretically mares could be having what we call a red bag delivery because the foal and the placenta are being delivered simultaneously but the visible difference is in the order of its presentation? That is what I was trying to get across. I do admit that I feel very silly for thinking that they could bleed out lol. It was a miss understanding on my part.

 

[Getitia]

I can only speak to our experience over the past twenty years of foaling out a few hundred foals and our statistical history. Given a normal delivery, no red bag, normal presentation we have only experienced one situation whereby the foal was still born and not viable at birth and in this case I suspect a twisted cord that was compromised during the foaling process may have been a contributing factor - but this was never confirmed. We have experienced a number of red bags and fortunately we have been able to successfully deliver all of them - one was close as the mare would not lay down and the foal had to be delivered with the mare standing up. Out of about every 50 births statistically, we have experienced a foal born with the placenta expelled immediately at birth - this has never been an issue. To remove the placenta - simply step on it and pick up the foal - the cord will detach normally. Do not cut the cord. The foals have always been normal in all respects.

We have a good friend who for a number of years foaled all of his miniatures in the pasture. Out of approximately 10 mares that foaled in his pasture 3 would not have viable foals ( so around 30%) He would find a completely full term foal deceased with the mare standing over it or close nearby. Given our personal experience in having to remove the sack from the foals at birth, if we were not present - our statistics would be about the same and sometimes as high as 40 to 50 percent in the smaller mares, including this year.

 

[Minimor]

With our foals, minis and Morgans, almost all have been delivered with the placenta coming right behind. None had any issues with oxygen deprivation. Only once did a Morgan take some time to expel the placenta; the minis none at all.

Our Mknis have mostly all had gossamer thin sacs--a mere touch and they split open, so foals would have no trouble getting free on their own. The one exception was a mare that turned out to have a mineral deficiency--that sac was harder to tear ipen. The foal was born very weak; had i not been there it wouldnt have gotten free and would have appeared to dir in the sac. In trality it wasnt that simple--the foal was born dying--even though I got her out of the sac immediately she faded away and died without ever getting up. Cause of death was severe congenital hypothyroidism.

 

[targetsmom]

I believe you were also asking for advice about what to do in the future? We also had 2 foals that didn't get out of the sack in past years and I would suggest that you:

1. Vaccinate your pregnant mares with Pneumabort shots at 5, 7, and 9 months gestation to help prevent any issues from Rhino.

2. Invest in a camera/alarm system so that you can BE THERE when the mares foal. This also means staying home if you think there is any chance the mare will foal, and since mares can be very sneaky, this can be a lot of the time.

Doing these two things, plus posting on the LB Mare Stare/Chat board this year helped us to our best foaling season ever. Other bad things can still happen, you can still lose the foal and/or the mare, but I think these two things can really help.

Good luck to you.

 

[attwoode]

With minis you really need to attend the births. Suffocation is common. The amniotic sac does not break during delivery and the foals will soffocate unless the mare acts quickly to clean off the foal. I have one mare that has had 4 live foals in a row and the mare did not get up or start cleaning the foals after labor for at least 20 minutes. Each foal would have died if I was not there to break the sac over their noses. Keeping close record of breeding dates, checking the mare a couple of times every day for signs of pending birth, sleepless nights, and taking days off work are all part of the deal if you have bred mares.

If you can't attend the births you probably should send the mare out to a foaling stable with 24 hour foaling assistance or not breed. That being said, I've read that if you can't attend the birth or have to leave, you may be better off with the mare being with other horses who will make her get up and attend to the foal faster.

 

[HGFarm]

All these above reasons is why I would never want my minis foaling out by themselves. I know I have had some that would not have made it if I had not been there. There is always a chance of a dystocia as well that by the time you find the mare, you are going to lose them both- the foal and the mare.