Market for Minis (#2)

[MiniNHF]

Didnt want to hi-jack someone elses thread about market for minis but in about 3 years or so I will be looking at moving into the South East and slowly start up a mini business. What I am not sure about is the market down in the southern states (NC, SC, GA, FL), obviously where I move will be centered around for the minis.

I use to help with my parents Thoroughbred Race Horse breeding business they had for about 12 years along with running a boarding business and training/showing horses at the same time, so I have the general understanding of what needs to be done and the cost of the breeding, showing etc.

Any thoughts/insight would be greatly appreciated!

 

[targetsmom]

Of course I can't answer for the SE US, but I think it is pretty safe to say that, in general, the miniature horse market is not good right now. This is JMO, but it seems to me that miniature horse breeding has been a bit like a Ponzi scheme, in that everyone has been breeding and selling to another breeder, who breeds and sells his foals/breeding stock to the next breeder, everyone thinking they will make money this way. But where is the END market? The person who uses the miniatures for something besides making more minis? That is the market that needs to be cultivated and I think there is plenty of potential.

I think in this economy, in order to sell minis, you need to cultivate your own market. We are doing a combination of things:

First of all, we are breeding for the "all-around" mini, so ours do everything that is appropriate for their age - halter, drive, jump, obstacle (halter and driving), liberty, showmanship, nursing home visits, etc.

1. Showing, mostly where there are big horses so we can reach new people (Pinto and ADS shows). Helps if you win.

2. Advertising - locally, regionally and nationally, and a professional looking website.

3. Joined a local ADS driving club

4. Submitted an article about what you can do with minis to a regional general horse publication

5. Started a 4-H Club with our minis (article upcoming in another regional horse publication). So minis are out and about showing at 4-H events too.

6. Have a presence at regional events such as Equine Affaire

7. Enter contests, write letters to general interest horse magazines (One of our foals is currently competing in a Dressage Today contest):

http://olympics.equi...type=stretching

8. When asked, do demonstrations for fundraising events.

That's is what I came up with right now. We plan to show in more mini-only shows next year (AMHR & AMHA) and expand to new geographical areas. Because of the distance (and our ages) I doubt we would get to Nationals or Worlds, but you never know.

Now, with all that, you would think we might be successful - and you would be wrong. We have never sold a foal or mini yet, although we are hopeful for one of our 2012 foals.

 

[MindyLee]

Depends on the treds at that time...

 

[MiniNHF]

targetsmom thanks for the very informative reply back. I had noticed that minis were also used for the 4-H ventures, I did many years in Pony Club although not 4-H I have watched the 4H events at the local fairs etc before.

I definitely do not want to sit around and just breed and sell. I enjoy the training and showing aspect of horses and that is where i plan to at least start with a couple and not head long into a ton of them at one time and expect something big to happen

MindyLee thank you as well for your response...

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

I'm in the southeast and in my personal opinion the market isn't great. It seems that there are a lot of halter horses and very few good quality driving horses and if they are for sale they are very expensive. Also there are a few of "Big Name" farms that are producing like Aloha Acres, Ravenwood, Beloveds, Brookhaven, Gander Hill, Lucky Four, and Century Oaks as well as lots of other farms. I would like to see more performance breeders but I can't see that type of operation being too profitable. And don't forget there are lots of no-name farms producing $300-$700 horses by the handful.

Good luck.

 

[MiniNHF]

I'm in the southeast and in my personal opinion the market isn't great. It seems that there are a lot of halter horses and very few good quality driving horses and if they are for sale they are very expensive. Also there are a few of "Big Name" farms that are producing like Aloha Acres, Ravenwood, Beloveds, Brookhaven, Gander Hill, Lucky Four, and Century Oaks as well as lots of other farms. I would like to see more performance breeders but I can't see that type of operation being too profitable. And don't forget there are lots of no-name farms producing $300-$700 horses by the handful.

Good luck.

I absolutely love jumping (and so does my retired show horse) so I was immediately drawn to that specific discipline with them. The only thing i am not familiar with is the driving part (even though the land owner of the pony club I was with was a DuPont and trained all kinds of driving horses never really got to experience it first hand).

I use to train alot of horses for eventing and jumping but because of a car accident i was in where i was hit from behind has rendered me not able to deal with full grown horses in training them. I can still ride, my body just cant take the toll of being thrown off and everything that goes into intensive training with riding horses. I came across the miniatures and realized that is something I can still do within the horse world with training, showing etc.

Sounds to me that there are a lot of farms that just breed to breed and make a quick buck then produce quality minis for showing etc purposes.

 

[SilverRose Farms]

I would love to see more performance and all round breeders too but that takes time. Major time. They have to look at having those foals (At least enough to show and promote their breeding program) around for 3+ years. Halter is easy you dont need too much stuff A horse a halter and some body clippers and your good to go. You can start promoting your farm RIGHT Away. And there's no major investment except to get a horse with good confirmation. So those who are looking at breeding more for performance have to look at what they have to invest in a long term scheme of things. Show Cart $1500 easily... Show Harness $500 Training Cart $500-$750 Training Harness $250-$400 easy then add training conditioning the care and up keep of those foals until you can show and promote.

And not always the halter conformation are not necessarily the ideal to perform.

And there are many different markets.

Im breeding for performance. Am I there yet well see soon. But Im also breeding for those who have allergies and need something hypoallergenic in order to be able to fulfill their dream of having or touching a horse. I also breed for the Breed Arena (AMHA/AMHR) but also keep my Pinto door open as well. The more doors and venues that are open mean the more possibility of options either for showing breeding or selling. And I fully support the gelding side of life for my foals as well.

 

[MiniNHF]

I would love to see more performance and all round breeders too but that takes time. Major time. They have to look at having those foals (At least enough to show and promote their breeding program) around for 3+ years. Halter is easy you dont need too much stuff A horse a halter and some body clippers and your good to go. You can start promoting your farm RIGHT Away. And there's no major investment except to get a horse with good confirmation. So those who are looking at breeding more for performance have to look at what they have to invest in a long term scheme of things. Show Cart $1500 easily... Show Harness $500 Training Cart $500-$750 Training Harness $250-$400 easy then add training conditioning the care and up keep of those foals until you can show and promote.

And not always the halter conformation are not necessarily the ideal to perform.

And there are many different markets.

Im breeding for performance. Am I there yet well see soon. But Im also breeding for those who have allergies and need something hypoallergenic in order to be able to fulfill their dream of having or touching a horse. I also breed for the Breed Arena (AMHA/AMHR) but also keep my Pinto door open as well. The more doors and venues that are open mean the more possibility of options either for showing breeding or selling. And I fully support the gelding side of life for my foals as well.

Oh i know how it is with dumping thousands into a horse, we did it when i use to do high level eventing and show jumping, definitely a pretty penny.

I am patient when it comes to horses and was thinking about getting my feet wet with a gelding mini to start myself off with and learn the breed and the showing etc so I have a good idea before I start looking to other options (mares, stallions etc) when I go to move. Would be a good buddy for my 26yr old retired show horse as well

 

[bevann]

Where are you in Delaware?I am in Milford and active in the Delmarva Miniature Horse club.Many of our members show and do volunteer events.If I were much younger I would get 1 or 2 level headed sane nice homozygous pinto stallions, several nice Thoroughbred mares, find a good vet and do some AI for pony hunters.Find someone who can ride and train them.Parents with deep pockets will spend almost anything for a flashy mount for their child that can win.When the child outgrows the pony there are often buyers lined up.Wish I had done it when I had my beautiful black&white stallion,Brewers Classic Starmaker.Good luck and have fun with your endeavor

 

[Riverrose28]

I agree with what most have said with the exception of "If you show a horse in halter you don't have much of an investment"

That may be true in some cases, but not in mine. I bought a top quality colt, spent over ten thousand to have him shown and promoted, trainers fees, transportation, show fees, sweats, vet, etc. you name it! Then more thousands to promote his get and earn Championships, so just showing halter is not cheap by any means, if you are serious about it. Just saying, and Bevanne responded to you and she is very knowledgable and knows breeding and training, she is also in Del, so contact her, the info she can pass on to you is invaluable and you will appreciate her wisdom.

 

[SilverRose Farms]

I agree with what most have said with the exception of "If you show a horse in halter you don't have much of an investment"

That may be true in some cases, but not in mine. I bought a top quality colt, spent over ten thousand to have him shown and promoted, trainers fees, transportation, show fees, sweats, vet, etc. you name it! Then more thousands to promote his get and earn Championships, so just showing halter is not cheap by any means, if you are serious about it. Just saying

Halter is easy you dont need too much stuff A horse a halter and some body clippers and your good to go. You can start promoting your farm RIGHT Away. And there's no major investment except to get a horse with good confirmation.

I said no major investment EXCEPT to get a horse with good conformation. Those same fees your talking about are also applied to a performance horse. Sweats show fees vets trainers ect... they also have the added expense of more show and training equipment than a halter horse. That is what I was trying to say.

Ive shown halter. Ive also shown performance. And while my costs for owning and training amounts and promotion bills were roughly the same the performance horse always cost more at the shows (More classes entered). Cost more in equipment and sometimes even more in training. As they were not being focused or trained for one class they were being trained for multiple classes.

Ultimately showing and owning a horse costs.. its not cheap there's no easy way to the top and you have to be willing to fight for it and put the money into it.

 

[maestoso]

Personally I think it would be foolish to start a breeding program for any reason other than a personal desire and passion for the miniature horse. Right now, unless you can afford the very best of the best, there is not really a market for breeding miniatures. By the time you invest in the quality that it takes to produce quality, it takes years just to break even. Breeding is important, don't get me wrong, I just think anyone getting into it thinking there's a profit to be made in breeding alone should probably talk to those who have been there, done that.

 

[charlottein]

Well I am not a breeder but I can say that no matter how great the horse you cannot be certain it will sell for more. People end up selling them for very little sometimes. My boyo for example won some Champions when shown as a yearling, has a very nice pedigree, and is smart and great natured and double registered. I bought him for only $300. I am super happy with him and cannot believe I got him for so little. I am sure the previous owner bought him for more than that.

 

[MiniNHF]

Where are you in Delaware?I am in Milford and active in the Delmarva Miniature Horse club.Many of our members show and do volunteer events.If I were much younger I would get 1 or 2 level headed sane nice homozygous pinto stallions, several nice Thoroughbred mares, find a good vet and do some AI for pony hunters.Find someone who can ride and train them.Parents with deep pockets will spend almost anything for a flashy mount for their child that can win.When the child outgrows the pony there are often buyers lined up.Wish I had done it when I had my beautiful black&white stallion,Brewers Classic Starmaker.Good luck and have fun with your endeavor

I live in pike creek/newark delaware right now (3/4 years im looking to get out of delaware and head south). My Appendix QH once retired did very well for children in hunter because of his love of jumping and wonderful movements. I wish I could breed him but unfortunately he is a gelding but he would have produced some wonderful babies for how smart he is and how athletic he was and still is at his old age of 26.

Since you are semi-local to me and if willing, i would love to discuss things further if you are willing

. Also thank you for your response

I agree with what most have said with the exception of "If you show a horse in halter you don't have much of an investment"

That may be true in some cases, but not in mine. I bought a top quality colt, spent over ten thousand to have him shown and promoted, trainers fees, transportation, show fees, sweats, vet, etc. you name it! Then more thousands to promote his get and earn Championships, so just showing halter is not cheap by any means, if you are serious about it. Just saying, and Bevanne responded to you and she is very knowledgable and knows breeding and training, she is also in Del, so contact her, the info she can pass on to you is invaluable and you will appreciate her wisdom.

No matter what you get into with horses will cost I do understand that with what I have done in my past from competing, training, breeding etc so I am definitely serious as I am looking into this so I will not waste anyone's time that is for sure. I have done a lot of things in the horse world but I can say this will be my first

Personally I think it would be foolish to start a breeding program for any reason other than a personal desire and passion for the miniature horse. Right now, unless you can afford the very best of the best, there is not really a market for breeding miniatures. By the time you invest in the quality that it takes to produce quality, it takes years just to break even. Breeding is important, don't get me wrong, I just think anyone getting into it thinking there's a profit to be made in breeding alone should probably talk to those who have been there, done that.

I understand you have to start somewhere and it takes time to even see a profit. By the time my parents had to stop the breeding end of the business (because my dad became ill with MS) they still didnt break even, but I would say about the time I was 25 and the horses we had out still racing finished my mom broke even with the horse business just on breeders bonuses.

As I said before the minis would be a very good option for me right now with my physical limitations to get back into training and showing horses because I do miss it and wish to continue I just cannot with fulls sized horses.

thank you so far for everyone who has responded, all posts have been informative