Minis verses small ponies

[BiologyBrain]

I'm not terribly familiar with minis. Even though I'm in a position to handle 4 of them. Only 1 of the horses appears to my untrained eye to be most like the photos of your cuties here. However, they all share many characteristics I interpret as pony-like. Especially my favorite, SunDance. Their elderly owner says they're minis, but he can't remember where he got them. The two with the biggest size difference he says were from the same place. One of these has the finest features overall that makes me think he's really a mini, but the others not so much. Some features may be difficult to discern since these horses all possess a lot of extra weight.

Are these traits common between minis & ponies or more indicative of one or the other?

- very thick manes & tails

- light feathering of the fetlocks

- bulged foreheads (kind of like an Arab)

- very solid/thick leg/bone structure

- short thick necks

I haven't been able to get photos yet, but I will try soon. Thanks!

 

[Minimor]

Well, Minis can vary a lot in structure. So can ponies. There are Minis who still resemble the "pit ponies" of old--short legs, heavy bone, rotund bodies, and there are Minis who are actually small ponies (complete with pony papers)--these latter Minis are often longer legged with fine bone, slim bodies, longer necks, more refined heads....there are Minis with the bulging foreheads, there are Minis that don't have that kind of a head. Some Minis have very thick mane & tail, others do not. The same is true of ponies.

As for ponies--they also come in all shapes and sizes--there are the Mini sized ones, some of which look just like Minis (many of them look just like Minis, be it the pit pony type or the more refined type) and there are the taller ones. You have the heavier boned ponies, and the leggy, long necked, very refined ponies. In many cases unless you see the registration papers you won't be able to tell if the little horse is a Mini, or a pony, or both.

I gather that you are thinking "pony" means short, dumpy and heavy and 'miniature horse' means refined and more horse like? If so, that is a bit of a misconception--as I said, either one can be one extreme or the other.

Here is a pony that is well within Mini size...this is my idea of "pony":

And here is a Mini of about the same size:

And this is another Mini that is about an inch smaller than the above two:

 

[Marty]

Anything over 38" in a pony

 

[disneyhorse]

All horses under 14.2 hands are ponies. Some ponies under 38" are minis. All minis are ponies.

As to temperament and looks, it varies greatly even within registered breeds.

 

[MountainWoman]

Minis come in all different shapes and sizes and not all of them will have thick manes and tails nor will all of them have short necks and solid thick legs. And when you look at minis in their heavy winter coats, they look like fuzzy monsters compared to the body clipped look of the warmer months. There are so many looks out there from the elegant halter horses to minis that look like tiny draft horses. You might want to head over to the photo section of this board and go look at all the photos people have posted so you can get an idea of the wide range of looks of minis. As to height, there are two different registries - AMHA and AMHR. AMHA height registry requires minis to be 34" or less and AMHR allows size "B" minis that can be as tall as 38".

The rule of the board is to not allow people to post photos of horses that don't belong to them unless they have permission from the owner but you can ask people to message you privately and we will try to help you.

Very exciting you are getting your first minis!

 

[romewhip]

I have ponies- two Foundation Classic Shetlands. And they couldn't be more different- one is heavier, shorter, has more body, a slight bulge to the forehead, thick mane and tail, and fantastic movement. The other is slim, refined, flat forehead, light mane and tail, and looks more like a big horse. It all just depends on the pony and its pedigree.

 

[BiologyBrain]

Thanks for the responses. I read some of the stuff on the AMHR (it's Shetlands of 4 types & minis of 2 types) and I'm still a little confused. I guess my biggest question is why the numerous registries? It made sense when I believed the myth that ponies (generally) were short,sticky, & hairy, but minis were essentially horses miniaturized but with basically the same proportions. Now that I've read that's false, I'm still confused. Another myth I believed was that ponies were healthier - less prone to founder, etc - than minis. I guess in the end, it doesn't really matter bc health-wise there isn't really much of a difference. I took photos of the minis I'm working with. I'll try to post them somewhere.

Thanks again!

 

[BiologyBrain]

I just uploaded photos of all my equines to an album call "Four minis/ponies and a Belgian". If you're interested, please take a look & let me know what you thing of my equine friends status as ponies or minis.

Although I guess it's impossible to tell and not very important... Hmmmm....

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

It is not my experience that minis have different health issues than ponies. Reproduction can be more difficult for very small minis.

Why the 4 Shetland divisions?...Good question. In the end I think it has been a great marketing strategy, but I'm not sure it was the original intent.

Modern shetlands are generally what show shetlands have been all along. The phrase Modern can be mistaken to mean new, but in this case I think it more implies changing with the times and keeping up with modern trends. In the end the Modern shetland hasn't changed much in decades.

There were pockets of shetlands throughout the US who were not bred to be as refined and athletic as the Moderns. Those folks had quality ponies, but they didn't feel they could compete with the Moderns. They wanted their own division to show in and as they believed their ponies represented more of what the imported shetland looked like they called their division Classic.

With time the Classic division grew and developed into a larger and maybe more modern looking pony. Again there were many people who had quality ponies who were smaller and a little less refined (the phrase many use is 'more bone'). Those folks requested another division to fit their ponies and called it Foundation Classic.

As both Classic divisions grew (and minis as well), modern ponies shrank in numbers. Along with that, many people were showing less athletic Modern ponies in Classic classes and thus blurring the lines between the 2 divisions. In an attempt to create a stepping stone toward Modern and to get some Moderns out of the Classic division the Modern Pleasure division was created.

I sympathize when people ask me, 'so what division is this pony?'. More often than not I'm not sure either. As long as the pony qualifies for the class, then you show them where you want. If you're unhappy with how you competed, then change divisions. If another exhibitor is mad because your 'out of division pony' got tied too high, well you didn't judge the class. Its not your 'fault' (there may be no fault).

Dr. Taylor

 

[paintponylvr]

Dr. Taylor - that is a great explanation! Thanks.

BB (BiologyBrain) -

It also depends what shape your ponies are in! You can have them in pasture shape, working shape and show shape (for halter). The outward look is different with each - as I have found. Also, our ponies changed as they aged - losing some muscle and fat in different areas that seemed to really change their appearance. I've seen some change the opposite way as well.

Your ponies/minis appear to be very drafty in type as well as "fluffy"...

 

[Tremor]

Figured I would post the pictures from the OP's gallery that are of the horses (excluding hoof and harness pictures)

Sundance (34")

Redman (32")

Little Bit (36")

To the OP: I would suggest not worrying so much their conformation and breed type, and worry more so on getting these horses diets in control and their hooves properly looked at. The farrier you're using is taking nothing off as far as length of the toe, quarters, and heel. They are TREMENDOUSLY long and is not helping their soundness. On the pictures you mention that the farrier trimmed the sole and frog down quite a bit, but in reality there is A LOT left to be taken down. Honestly, IMHO, trimming yourself would help these horses more than your farrier (if you have somebody online or in person guide you. It IS possible but takes some research on trimming, hoof anatomy, and good sharp tools)

Here's some of the pictures (I am posting them because I think there are A LOT of people who could help this woman, as she needs it)

May I ask where you're located? I'm sure we could find you a farrier who ACTUALLY knows what they're doing, or even a mentor.

Also wanted to add: Kudos to you for helping these ponies. Is it possible for you to get full control of these ponies? Legal, medical, etc.

 

[MountainWoman]

Are we allowed to post photos of horses that don't belong to us? I thought she said they belonged to an elderly gentleman? I might be wrong and if so sorry about that.

 

[BiologyBrain]

Thank you SO much for the replies! I'm going to try to take some more photos and address anything I can based on your responses. I'll also try to give you a bit more information about the ponies, me, & their well-meaning owner. I really appreciate the help -- even through cyber space, to get these ponies back to usefulness.

While I'm not the owner of the ponies I am their caretaker & have full authorization to post their photos to get help. The elderly gentleman owner is kind of loving these ponies to death. He means well, but compared to his big drafter they're quite different even when kept on the same pasture/treatment. I've finally convinced him they don't need grain (that he gives to the Belgian) or rich hay (alfalfa & the like). I'm trying to convince him to keep them inside over night and only graze during the day. I don't see myself getting full control of these ponies since he lives on the farm with them and I'm not there. Even if I were to start trying to keep them inside more often, he could easily just let them out if he started feeling sorry for them again. He really does love them, but they have some issues that are different (mostly just due to size) than his Belgian. Even the Belgian is slightly overweight, but he handles it better. He also pays the bills, so I have very little sway over who trims the ponies and what they're bought. He listens to reason, but he's also set in his ways and has his own history of horse ownership (these are his first ponies/minis though) that he uses and wants to keep.

I'm confused with how the farrier could take more sole and hoof wall off these ponies. When he's rasping the light colored hooves have a significant pinkish tint - especially in the white line area. He stops because he's afraid of quicking them. By the time he gets to that point, the ponies typically start to fret/show signs of pain. I agree that looking at the hooves from the side they're extremely block-like and long, but based in the bottom, that's all that can be trimmed. I've looked at various barefoot trimming websites and to my untrained eye, the farrier we're using is trying to cut the hooves down as much as possible. Believe it or not, the bald faced pony (Little Bit) had feet probably twice as tall as they are in these photos this past winter. His hooves grow exceptionally fast -- especially when compared to his pasture-mates. I'm in a conundrum too because I know exercising him would be good for his feet, but his feet are so bad I don't want to hurt him worse.

I am somewhat limited with my ability to do work requiring arm strength. I have a trail-rider's friend rasp I can use, but nippers are much more difficult for me to manipulate with a weak left arm. I am a breast cancer survivor with nerve issues in my left arm and damaged muscles in my chest. I really do want to help these ponies and enjoy handling them. I'm not terribly concerned with whether they're miniatures or ponies, I just had some mini mythology in my data bank.

I live in Western KY. A quick browse through the mini farms on this site from KY don't show any that are closer than 2 hours or so. Again, I thank you very much for your responses and I can't wait to hear more from you.

 

[Gone_Riding]

I don't care what anyone says. My 14 hand Arab is NOT a pony. She's a horse.

I absolutely hate it when I am looking for a pony for my kids and bigger horses than her pop up. Now, I know a registered pony can be bigger (like a Welsh), but to me, if it's over 13'3", it's a horse.

I call my mini a pony, but she's a mini. Too me, she's just too adorable to NOT be a pony. She is from Shetland lines though, so a person CAN call her a pony really, she's just a short one. As you can tell from the picture, a person WOULD have trouble telling the difference on my girl. She's 38".

 

[Gone_Riding]

I know what you mean about trimming with a weak arm. I was in a car accident that left my dominant right arm weak. Now, it's a total pain to trim... My mini mare has big feet for a mini too. My SIL always says she needs trimmed when she comes over, but they don't. They are just much bigger than her minis' feet.

 

[HGFarm]

A short thick neck and bulging foreheads are dwarf characteristics..

 

[ohmt]

Great to have you here on the forum! To me, I like my horses about where yours are at (weight-wise and based on these pictures provided) if they are not showing. It is a healthy weight and they are not overweight, IMO-except Sundance, who could a little less. Those hooves, like Tremor said, are terrible. The heels have got to come down and your farrier can do it without having to take anything off the toe. I'd get someone else out there for a trim or two and see how it goes. Good luck!

 

[BiologyBrain]

Gone_Riding your mare looks a lot like the gelding I play with named Sundance. So cute!!

Ohmt - I think you've got Sundance and Redman switched. Redman is the one that is terribly fat. If you look closely (I know my photos aren't good enough for you to see), you can actually see that fat pads have given him a deformed looking outline.

I'm still trying to convince their owner to get a new farrier and put Redman at least on a diet/grazing muzzle/more exercise. They're a work in progress most definitely!

 

[BiologyBrain]

I've uploaded a couple other photos of Little Bit's feet. When I tried trotting him out the other day he absolutely will not trot. He seems to favor his front right foot, but it's not terribly noticeable unless he's turning sharply to the right. Yet he still stands in the "my feet hurt" position and is unwilling to move much.

Redman seems sore, but when I trot him out in some of the absolutely cutest boots he seems sound.

Although I love these minis to pieces, I think I lost my heart to their pet Belgian the other day. I took him out on they lunge line for the first time. He's very large, but also very graceful! He arches his neck and practically floats (well, as much as a horse that weighs a ton or so can float). I can't wait to get him between the shafts and/or under saddle!! I'm working my way through the minis first to get re-acclimated to driving & such. I also have to build their owner's confidence in my abilities a bit more. He's very cautious.

 

[Shes My Style]

All horses under 14.2 hands are ponies. Some ponies under 38" are minis. All minis are ponies.

As to temperament and looks, it varies greatly even within registered breeds.

No - not all horses under 14.2 are not ponies. Horses such as Arabians and a few other breeds are always considered horses no matter what height they are. There also used to be different characteristics that used to define pony breeds and differentiate them from horses, but those things have seemed to blur over the years as humans tinker around with breeding for different characteristics and such.

As to the hooves - the heels really need to be taken down and not touch the toe. It will rocker the hoof back at a new proper angle and that toe will come up off the ground and provide a more appropriate break over. Just went through this with my first mini. Good luck!