Nationals

[susanne]

I have to agree with Carole (Vertical Limit)...

Politics are a given -- get over it.

Judging itself is subjective, not a science.

However, I don't think it's too much to ask that each entry be giving a fair look, and the example of a judge not even watching certain horses in Liberty should, indeed, be noted and corrected.

Spreading the horses out more is an outstanding idea. Setting up for the video and/or the audience is good, but the most important thing is to give the entries and the judges the best chance possible to present and to view.

I know this would be unpopular, but I wish Nationals were an earned privilege and a showcase of winning horses throughout the show season, not just a gathering of anyone with the money to qualify and travel across the country. The classes at Nationals are way too big for any judge to truly appraise each horse in any class.

Why couldn't Nationals be the best of the best? Champions and first and second place winners at local rated shows (both amateur and open) would qualify for regionals, and top place winners at regionals would qualify for Nationals...

Or perhaps Nationals could stay as is, but there could be a separate Champion of champions show, for which winning horses would qualify with local and regional wins.

Just thinking...always a dangerous thing!

 

[wpsellwood]

What I loved about the AMHA judging is that there was 5 judges and they threw out the high and low. So if you have someone playing favs they are getting dumped anyhow! Now they have changed it to 4 judges and one sits out each class. Anyway the point is I dont like 3 judge system I liked the 5 it seemed overall more fair.

 

[Erica]

I know this would be unpopular, but I wish Nationals were an earned privilege and a showcase of winning horses throughout the show season, not just a gathering of anyone with the money to qualify and travel across the country. The classes at Nationals are way too big for any judge to truly appraise each horse in any class.
Why couldn't Nationals be the best of the best? Champions and first and second place winners at local rated shows (both amateur and open) would qualify for regionals, and top place winners at regionals would qualify for Nationals...

Or perhaps Nationals could stay as is, but there could be a separate Champion of champions show, for which winning horses would qualify with local and regional wins.

Just thinking...always a dangerous thing!

I think me personally I hope it doesn't go that route.

I can honestly say the quality of horses at AMHR nationals keeps getting better and better.......few and far b/w are the times when you can look out and see several horses not suited to compete.

I have always been under the impression (and still am) that AMHR is very family oriented.

You don't have to have trainers to get points on your horses to get them qualified to show, you don't have to travel to numerous shows all over chasing points or a win. You can be someone just starting out and go to Nationals for "fun" only if you want, for the experience, for the friendships and to learn.

While yes it sure would be nice to cut the days shorter - classes smaller, not have 4 hours of a single class. But you know, imo those people thought enough of their little horses to come and compete even if it's a class I'm not thrilled to sit and watch - obstacle or something (just not my cup of tea) just as me and halter may not be theres.

Nationals is about promoting the breed to me, and a place anyone can come to show any little horse they choose, as with anything it evolves, grows, changes.........and I'm sure it will continue to, but for making it a have to qualify to come show just call me old school in wanting it to stay as is.....as a place for anyone. Trainers, breeders, ammys, youths, a string of 30 or hauling up only 1; horses with thousands of miles under there belt or the ones that attended just the two shows.

 

[txminipinto]

Yeah Erica!!

 

[Jill]

Erica again

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I think me personally I hope it doesn't go that route.I can honestly say the quality of horses at AMHR nationals keeps getting better and better.......few and far b/w are the times when you can look out and see several horses not suited to compete.

I have always been under the impression (and still am) that AMHR is very family oriented.

You don't have to have trainers to get points on your horses to get them qualified to show, you don't have to travel to numerous shows all over chasing points or a win. You can be someone just starting out and go to Nationals for "fun" only if you want, for the experience, for the friendships and to learn.

While yes it sure would be nice to cut the days shorter - classes smaller, not have 4 hours of a single class. But you know, imo those people thought enough of their little horses to come and compete even if it's a class I'm not thrilled to sit and watch - obstacle or something (just not my cup of tea) just as me and halter may not be theres.

Nationals is about promoting the breed to me, and a place anyone can come to show any little horse they choose, as with anything it evolves, grows, changes.........and I'm sure it will continue to, but for making it a have to qualify to come show just call me old school in wanting it to stay as is.....as a place for anyone. Trainers, breeders, ammys, youths, a string of 30 or hauling up only 1; horses with thousands of miles under there belt or the ones that attended just the two shows.

Erica,

I've said this to you directly but now I'd like to say it publically. You, young lady, are wise WAY beyond your years.

 

[susanne]

I agree, I wouldn't want to lose the "big family gathering" aspect of Nationals, which is why I mentioned my other idea of having a separate Champion of Champions type of show, where entry is earned not automatic.

In part, I mentioned this so people will stop and think about what they value about Nationals. I personally consider the politics to be just one of the challenges one faces in showing.

With the annual complaints, everyone needs to consider if things should be changed or if the good outweighs the bad.

 

[JWC sr.]

I agree with Erica, Karin and the rest of you, don't try and fix what isn't broke. The National show is a lot of fun just the way it is and the participation is wonderful to say the least. The one thing I would like to see them add is a National Sale, I think it would be a big hit and a lot of fun.

As far as all the stuff about the judges, a friend commented to me one time when I was complaining about the placing of a certain judge that it was not the judge that was stupid, but us the exhibitors paying for thier opinion or getting riled about it. LOL

I think he may have had a point!!!

 

[jeniemac]

Don't be sorry for your opinions. I have one also..

AMHR stands for American MINIATURE Horse Regestry.

What I saw out there this year were A M/S HR. (AMERICAN MINIATURE / SHETLAND HORSE REGESTRY). Someone ought to start one.

Don't get me wrong , the shetland crosses are totally beautiful but they don't belong at the AMHR shows.

The foundation miniature is being swollowed up by them and its a crime. The true mini is what should be at the AMHR shows.

If the breeding program keeps up with the shetland crosses there will be no more true minis. The miniature is a breed. The shetland crosses is a new breed. These big barns keep going they will kill the miniature breed.

I don't mind being beat by a true miniature that looks like a shetland ,but i get aggervated when a shetland cross beats me.

Put them in their own class or in their own show. Let us that breed true miniatures have our own breed and our show back.

J

 

[bingo]

Don't be sorry for your opinions. I have one also..AMHR stands for American MINIATURE Horse Regestry.

What I saw out there this year were A M/S HR. (AMERICAN MINIATURE / SHETLAND HORSE REGESTRY). Someone ought to start one.

Don't get me wrong , the shetland crosses are totally beautiful but they don't belong at the AMHR shows.

Well the thing is there is no Miniature Breed it is a height registry and not a breed. A Shetland cross is not a new breed in fact it is not a breed at all. Minis came from Shetlands so therefore minis are Shetlands just Shetlands that meet a height requirement.

I do agree it is a bit sad that a well conformed, well balanced mini no longer has a chance at Nationals as it takes a very extreme horse to do well but that is just the evolution of the breed.

While I am not saying they should not show at Nationals I wish a lot of them would also show at the Congress so they can boost the numbers for that show.

 

[jeniemac]

Don't be sorry for your opinions. I have one also..AMHR stands for American MINIATURE Horse Regestry.

What I saw out there this year were A M/S HR. (AMERICAN MINIATURE / SHETLAND HORSE REGESTRY). Someone ought to start one.

Don't get me wrong , the shetland crosses are totally beautiful but they don't belong at the AMHR shows.

Well the thing is there is no Miniature Breed it is a height registry and not a breed. A Shetland cross is not a new breed in fact it is not a breed at all. Minis came from Shetlands so therefore minis are Shetlands just Shetlands that meet a height requirement.

I do agree it is a bit sad that a well conformed, well balanced mini no longer has a chance at Nationals as it takes a very extreme horse to do well but that is just the evolution of the breed.

While I am not saying they should not show at Nationals I wish a lot of them would also show at the Congress so they can boost the numbers for that show.

 

[jeniemac]

Don't be sorry for your opinions. I have one also..AMHR stands for American MINIATURE Horse Regestry.

What I saw out there this year were A M/S HR. (AMERICAN MINIATURE / SHETLAND HORSE REGESTRY). Someone ought to start one.

Don't get me wrong , the shetland crosses are totally beautiful but they don't belong at the AMHR shows.

Well the thing is there is no Miniature Breed it is a height registry and not a breed. A Shetland cross is not a new breed in fact it is not a breed at all. Minis came from Shetlands so therefore minis are Shetlands just Shetlands that meet a height requirement.

I do agree it is a bit sad that a well conformed, well balanced mini no longer has a chance at Nationals as it takes a very extreme horse to do well but that is just the evolution of the breed.

While I am not saying they should not show at Nationals I wish a lot of them would also show at the Congress so they can boost the numbers for that show.

 

[disneyhorse]

Sorry, but miniature horses ARE Shetland ponies. If you go back, there are almost no such thing as a "TRUE mini"... I am amazed at how fast the quality is improving each year! Nationals just blows me away every year at the overall quality of all of the classes, from halter to driving. With the goal being to get the mini "more horselike" the extreme Shetlands are bringing more true motion (not the old dink-dink movement that short legged minis had) and an overall more-scaled-down look to the division. The "foundation/draft style minis" look like tiny Thelwell ponies, which I don't understand why people want to stick with that! That is an old-style kids-pony look, not a show-ring look that the ASPC/AMHR has tried to evolve with since its inception. The original Shetland ponies imported were the most refined ones the importers could find.

As to politics... yeah EVERY horse show will have SOME people crying! It's rarely the people who placed in the Grand class though

Andrea

 

[jeniemac]

Sorry, but miniature horses ARE Shetland ponies. If you go back, there are almost no such thing as a "TRUE mini"... I am amazed at how fast the quality is improving each year! Nationals just blows me away every year at the overall quality of all of the classes, from halter to driving. With the goal being to get the mini "more horselike" the extreme Shetlands are bringing more true motion (not the old dink-dink movement that short legged minis had) and an overall more-scaled-down look to the division. The "foundation/draft style minis" look like tiny Thelwell ponies, which I don't understand why people want to stick with that! That is an old-style kids-pony look, not a show-ring look that the ASPC/AMHR has tried to evolve with since its inception. The original Shetland ponies imported were the most refined ones the importers could find.As to politics... yeah EVERY horse show will have SOME people crying! It's rarely the people who placed in the Grand class though

Andrea

 

[hahler]

And people wonder why i just trim feet and dont show

 

[Sandee]

OK, I don't remember who said it but read the judges placings which you can do if you're at the show. The placings are calculated from all the judges to give just one placing for the class. Many at the show did not understand this. It's rather complicated and I sure can't explain the point system; but if each judge places a different horse in first place while 2 or more judges select the same horse for 2nd place then the 2nd place one gets the Championship.

Also the judges are human and can certainly make mistakes. I read their placings and was very happy to see that one judge liked my filly's performance in obstacle class so much that he put her in 5th placed. She didn't get any ribbons as I made the mistake of going between the wrong cones on the course. I'm not a trainer and no big names associated with me so his mistake was just that a mistake. I really was mad at myself for messing up after I saw what she could have had if I didn't mess up!

I must also add that many people discouraged me 2 years ago from going to Nationals saying it was all political. I went last year and stallion placed 4th in driving and I was thrilled. This year my filly got 3 ribbons and my stallion got a championship in Western Pleasure Driving 32" and under. It's easy to scream political but it's not ALL that way.

 

[kathey]

I know everyone keeps saying that AMHR is a height registry and teh miniature horse is not a breed. If that is so then why does it state this on the front page of the AMHR web site...

The American Shetland Pony Club was founded in 1888 as a registry to keep the pedigrees for all the Shetlands that were being imported from Europe at that time.

It has expanded to four separate breeds under one club: The Classic American Shetland Pony, The Modern American Shetland Pony, The American Miniature Horse Registry and The American Show Pony Registry.

The AMHR National Championship Show is the highlight of the year determining the breed’s top Miniature Horses.

They keep stating the BREEDS.

I am one of those people that think the pure shetlands should not be hardshipped in the AMHR. You can breed the miniature horse, without the shetlands, to get the refinement sought after in the show arena. As AMHR states on their own web site they have expanded out to four separate breeds under one club...so are they wrong saying that a miniature horse is not a breed?

This is my opinon.

 

[maestoso]

Let me start by saying that I love showing. I love the competition, I love showing my horse, I love the whole process. It is always nice to win, but i don't do it for the win or for the ribbon.

I agree with what Erica said about the benefit of Nationals being for everyone.

With that said, I ABSOLUTELY think that showing is political. The well known trainer will ALWAYS get the extra look, and the others might get lucky...... This is the way it is. I am not saying that the big trainer always wins. But I do believe 100% that if two horses were similar, the trainer would take the win over the unknown ammy. I think that even if the professionals horse wasn't quite as good, they would still, in many cases, take the win over the unknown ammy. However, I do NOT believe that if the ammy's horse is substantially better than the pros horse, they the pro would still take the win.

With that said, these are horse SHOWS. The quality of the horse is only half of it, and the way in which you present your horse is the other half. The pro trainers know how to show their horses to the best advantage, and they do it. They have shown under most judges before, they often know what the judges are looking for, and they take advantage of that. Also, a pro trainer isn't going to take a horse in the ring that they don't think deserves to be there. Their reputation is on the line, they are not stupid.

I have no problem or issue or complaints about "little people" hiring trainers to show their horse. It is not what I choose to do, but to each their own.

Politics is in EVERYTHING, end of story. You can minimize it, but it is always still there.

Think about how much time, effort, and work that these trainers have put in to get where they are today. After all of that, they would be cray not to take advantage of the benefits of being "known".

I am glad the pro trainers are out there showing. I am watching them, and learning from them.

 

[MiniHunterHorseFan]

I think some of the big name trainers win all the time and they deserve to win, for instance our president Larry Parnell. For instance I always wondered, " why does he have to win all the time? Its got to be because he's our president." Then I was watching a Roadster class. I saw a beautiful high stepping pinto driven by a person dressed nicely in a bright red roadster silk and thought, "Now this person is really good." And you know what? It was Larry Parnell and I didn't even know it. Some of the big name trainers win because they REALLY are good. But then there are other trainers, not mentioning any names here, who drive really good and have great horses but wear the same plain blue jean jacket outfit to drive in country pleasure and do good, then put on a cowboy hat with the SAME outfit and win western country pleasure. How is that possible? I thought clothes really were supposed to be nice and fitting to the class?

 

[txminipinto]

Regarding the AMHR vs ASPC/AMHR debate.......I'm sorry folks but the mini is not a breed. It's a height registry no matter what our webpage says. The shetland pony is a breed and as long as they meet the height requirement can be registered with AMHR. In fact, if you read up on your shetland history, many shetlands brought over were 38". ASPC/AMHR is where the AMHR industry is going. I recommend all of my clients to start seeking these double registered horses to add to their herds. One client has bought 3 in the last 10 months! Now, this isn't saying that an AMHR only horse can't do well at Nationals. I had an A stallion go top ten in both model and his age/height division, so a correct horse is still a correct horse regardless of the papers it carries. BUT.....if you want to stay competitive, you must study those who are successful around you and make changes to your program. That is also one of the services the "dreaded" trainers offer to their clients. Part of our job is to help improve your programs!!

Oh, and many of these ASPC/AMHR horses were at Congress.

Now, regarding clothes for various classes. When you have many horses, especially many driving horses, that show on the same night you don't always have time to go change clothes. So, you must wear clothes that are appropiate for all divisions or at least can be "changed" with accessaries. This is why you will never see me braid a horse for hunter or wear hunter type attire in the class. It's not required and I don't have the time or help to accomplish it.