Need help with pinto pattern

[minisforever]

Just wondering if this horse is anything other than a Tobiano Pinto. His left eye is blue.

 

[MiniforFaith]

:saludando: Sorry I don't know anything about coloring, but I just had to say he is very handsome.. Very, very pretty horse.. If you get tired of trying to figure out his color, you could send to me

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: I'd take him in a heartbeat.. :flirt:

 

[Devon]

Im not sure on colour but hes a STUNNING boy

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[love_casper]

Just wondering if this horse is anything other than a Tobiano Pinto. His left eye is blue.

YUP!!!

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if he was just tobiano, he would have no face white whatsoever. And the blue eye comes from overo.

so he is a "tovero" of some sort. i would guess tobiano + splash, but there could be some frame in there.

also sabino may be what's causing the mark to go under his chin, could just be splash though.

he sure is pretty!!! wow!

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[rabbitsfizz]

Forget "tovero" PLEASE I am sick of it and it is a very outdated term- it actually means nothing at all.

I can see Splash- do you know for sure the horse has Tobiano???

Whatever pattern I agree he is very nice- it is always good to have a splendid horse under the pattern!!

I would also have him tested for Frame- I do not think he looks particularly "Framey" but all those sort of patterns can hide things and testing him would mean, if he is negative, that you do not need to test any mares.

If he is positive at least you know what you have got.

A very smart stallion, with a smart pattern!!

 

[Becky]

I see tobiano + splash. It wouldn't hurt to test for frame just so you know you won't have a problem breeding him to any mares. I do use the term 'tovero' to describe any horse that is tobiano plus another pattern. I think it it is a very good description!

 

[Dona]

As much as I respect Jane (Rabbitfizz)....I don't believe Tovero is an outdated term (at least not here in the states) Tovero is just a simple way to describe a horse who carries Tobiano as well as some Overo gene...hence "Tovero". I agree, tho, that it doesn't explain "which" Overo patterns are involved.

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I do see Tobiano in your horse. A colored body with white over the back & the tail being white at the top, and colored at the bottom, are typical tobiano traits. Your horse also has very irregular facial white & blue eyes...which would indicate Splash. Frame can also cause blue eyes...so that's a possibility as well. The white chin could be from Sabino. So, to make it short.........you have a "Tovero". (sorry Jane)

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[rabbitsfizz]

If you forget "overo" which is also useless and outdated except maybe when describing Frame then you have to drop "tovero"

I'm sorry but it is used mainly as a marketing ploy to make it look as if the horse is something special when, in fact, very very few horses are ever one pattern only.

Sabino, Splash and Frame have NOTHING genetically, in common, so calling them "overo" is pretty silly.

Why not include Tobiano in "overo" since it has as much in common with Splash as Sabino does!!

Sorry, I am hijacking the thread, here, not my intention.

He is Splash definitely and if you know he is Tobiano, OK that is the base but I would still test for Frame as it is always best to when not sure.

 

[Meavey]

Tobiano for sure, I agree on splash but test for frame you never know.

He sure is stunning!

 

[Dona]

If you forget "overo" which is also useless and outdated except maybe when describing Frame then you have to drop "tovero"

I'm sorry but it is used mainly as a marketing ploy to make it look as if the horse is something special when, in fact, very very few horses are ever one pattern only.

Sabino, Splash and Frame have NOTHING genetically, in common, so calling them "overo" is pretty silly.

Why not include Tobiano in "overo" since it has as much in common with Splash as Sabino does!!

Sorry, I am hijacking the thread, here, not my intention.

He is Splash definitely and if you know he is Tobiano, OK that is the base but I would still test for Frame as it is always best to when not sure.

I know that Sabino, Frame & Splash are all "genetically" different. But it is a fact, that Splash & Frame are grouped together as OVERO patterns...and Sabino is sometimes included in that group in genetic books, and on color sites. (whether we like it or not)

In a perfect world...everyone would understand color genetics and we could use the exact terminology to describe horses genetic patterns, but the majority of people do not.

It's no different than describing a horse with the Silver gene, black gene & agouta...as a Silver-Bay.

Sure...all those terms describe the horse....but "Silver-Bay" is the shorter descriptive version.

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[rabbitsfizz]

Well, yes, it is different, sorry.

You see it is actually only the Americas that does this- there is no "history" of "overo" in Europe so it basically would simplify things if we just stopped using a misleading and genetically incorrect term.

I think that the different patterns were probably lumped together because they looked similar- but you would no longer accept a Silver Black being called a "grey" as we now know differently- and we are quick enough to correct people who still think Tobiano can have face white, so why not just go a bit further and lose the "overo" blanket term as well??

 

[minisforever]

I am so glad that I asked this because I find all of the responses very interesting. I need and want to learn so much about pinto patterns. Is it true that a true tobiano does not have any white on their face? I really never new that. What really made me wonder on this particular stallion was his facial pattern more than anything else. To me he looked tobiano but with the irregular facial markings I just couldn't help but wonder.

Thank you again for posting so much valuable and interesting information regarding the pinto patterns. :aktion033:

 

[Dona]

I am so glad that I asked this because I find all of the responses very interesting. I need and want to learn so much about pinto patterns. Is it true that a true tobiano does not have any white on their face? I really never new that. What really made me wonder on this particular stallion was his facial pattern more than anything else. To me he looked tobiano but with the irregular facial markings I just couldn't help but wonder.

Thank you again for posting so much valuable and interesting information regarding the pinto patterns. :aktion033:

You are right in that Tobiano does NOT put facial white on a horse. Hello Fire is a very good example of mutiple pinto patterns....Tobiano and Splash for sure...and Sabino & Frame are "possibilities".

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[rabbitsfizz]

Yes, we can agree on that one :bgrin

I do have to say again that the pattern is secondary- I do like your horse a lot- and we are all stressing here the importance of testing for LWO- yet again!!

I do commend you for coming on and asking these questions- although the thread has wandered a bit the responses are all useful and interesting.

You might want to come here

http://www.equinecolor.com/contact.html

and ask some more questions- we don't bite!!

And Dona why do you not join us????

A bit of back up from Mini people would be much appreciated.

 

[minisforever]

Thank you all so VERY much!!!!! Rabbit, I will visit that link.

 

[Lauralee]

BEAUTIFUL BOY!

On the subject of terminology with horse coloration.....there are MANY terms thrown around the horse world that are vague and non descript/misleading. Somehow we still find them useful to convey our intended meaning.

Here are a few:

DAPPLE

BROWN

SKEWBALD

PIEBALD

WHITE

I am sure that there are many more examples, within each breed. For example, GREY, in a miniature horse is not always what you think it should be! Neither is CHESTNUT! Because not everyone uses the most accurate color descriptions and to compound the problem, NEITHER DOES THE REGISTRY!! And most folks aren't into doing color testing to the extent that we do.

Its one thing to argue what a color is and is not. It is quite another to simply pull some hair and get the test done to know for sure. Sure saves alot of anguish if you ask me.

I have no problem with the terms overo or tovero....but I have to lay eyes on the horse in order to determine just what exactly we're talking about. It is vague and non descript, YES! But it gets the inteded message across to me, which is TOBIANO PLUS SOMETHING ELSE. (I also don't like abuse of the term FRAME, and find it misleading, but that's my personal pet peeve)

 

[DakotahMoon_Ranch]

I know next to NIL about color patterns but wanted to say that I saw your boy on Laurel Acres site a month or so ago and I inquired about him....but it was too late, you got to him first!! Congrats, he's beautiful!!