NFC Rowdys Standing Ovation

[IloveMiniatureshorses]

Hi,

Did Rowdy have the overo gene? It seems to be that many Rowdy sons and daughters have lacing on their backs, or either they are overos.

Does anyone know who NFC Rowdys Standing Ovation's dam was? Also, is he deceased?

Alyssa

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

It is HIGHLY recommended if you're going to bred a horse with the Rowdy lines to have that horse tested for LWO, as many test positive.

 

[targetsmom]

I don't know if anyone ever tested Rowdy for LWO, or if anyone knows for sure that he was a frame overo, but he had to be given all the frame overos that he produced. So I would say YES, Rowdy carried the frame overo gene (LWO+), which he passed on to a number of his sons and daugheters, and through them, a LOT of minis, even those that appear to be solid color. I suggest testing breeding animals with Rowdy blood for LWO unless they are being bred to one that is tested LWO negative.

I also wonder if Rowdy carried splash, but that is pure idle curriosity.

 

[Becky]

Rowdy most definitely was LWO as many of his sons and daughters were/are. He was deceased before testing became readily available, so I am sure he was never tested, but the proof of carrying frame overo is in his offspring.

 

[Reble]

Does anyone have pictures of Rowdy? would love to see some.

 

[chandab]

Does anyone have pictures of Rowdy? would love to see some.

There are a couple nice pictures of Rowdy on the Historical Miniatures website: http://www.geocities.com/historicalminis/

http://www.geocities.com/historicalminis/Rowdy.html

 

[mizbeth]

This is a photo of Rowdy, his famous photo as has appeared in the World Magazine.

This is Kewpies Doll Oracle grandsire to Rowdy

These next two photos, I was told are photos of Rowdy. Tony will know about these photos. I have also heard that it was the mares that Rowdy was bred to that carried the overo genes. But.... Tony can answer these questions too............and is another chapter for Tony's book

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, it was not the mares, it was definitely Rowdy himself, I talked to John Gaza about him, many years ago.

He was the first to tell NFC to breed him to Pinto (non LWO) mares as he was Pinto himself, and that was the first I heard of horses with minimal markings being Pinto!!

If you look he is a classic minimal LWO with face marking, no blue eyes and no white on the legs.

 

[Tony]

You can read more about Rowdy on my Historical Stallions pages.

The pictures that Beth posted are of Rowdy and were in the Miniature Horse World shortly after NFC bought him. He was way ahead of his time as far as refinement and style and was the reason that Vern Brewer started in miniatures after selling out of Shetlands years before.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I find this topic fascinating. I have always preferred solid horses and didn't learn until very recently that a stallion I just sold this year (who looks like a solid palomino to me) MUST be carrying some type of pinto based on the baby he just produced for an outside mare that came here for breeding! OH! The baby is as loud as loud gets.

So, I've recently added two pinto mares to my herd (I know, heck much be freezing!

) and I have just a bit of Rowdy in the herd - way back of course. Do I need to be concerned? This is probably a stupid question but since I"ve never researched it...but how "far" down the line can something like this hide?

 

[targetsmom]

How far down the line can LWO "hide"?

Each time you breed a LWO+ horse (e.g. Rowdy or a LWO+ descendent) you have a 50% chance of producing a live LWO+ foal. So the farther down the line you go, the less chance that your Rowdy bred horse will be LWO+ - BUT IT NEVER GETS TO ZERO. The safest thing is to test one of your breeding pair - e.g. your stallions (who are not too likely to be LWO+) and if they are negative, you have nothing to worry about. Except possibly some wild color pinto foals!

 

[mizbeth]

If you have a mare or stallion that is positive for LWO they can produce frame overos visual or not, according to statistics/percentages of producing frame overos.

If you test the foal of a LWO stallion or mare especially if it is not a visual frame (obvious frame) and it tests negative, then it ends there. If the foal tests postive for LWO then the pattern above repeats itself. I am assuming the LWO gene can be passed for forever that way?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

How far down the line??

How far do you want to go

Honestly, the best illustration of this is the AQHA...."crop outs" to left of them "crop outs " to right of them, "crop outs" finally accepted in the main register!!!

 

[iowa]

The trouble with the LWO gene is that if two of them combine (one from each parent) then the foal will die from having an incomplete intestinal tract. This can happen 25% of the time between two parents that both carry the LWO gene. There are NO homozygous LWO horses for this reason. I would be mortified if I bred two LWO horses and waited 11 months and then the foal would die or have to be put to sleep which all LWO homozygous foals have to be. That 25% chance is just too great for me. Have both the mares and the stallion tested and do not breed them. I am even hoping people would stop using LWO horses at all in their breeding program as most people don't know about the consequences that can result.

 

[*minis*]

I am even hoping people would stop using LWO horses at all in their breeding program as most people don't know about the consequences that can result.

It is simply unnecessary to "stop" using LWO+ horses, since there is a reliable test!!! It would be a shame to lose all these beautiful miniature overos. Breeding animals is always a big responsibility. And it's easy to get yourself informed.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Absolutely agree, NO point, and no reason to stop using LWO animals, I think everyone here is aware of any potential dangers and no-one in their right mind would knowingly breed two LWO+ animals together, anyway, so it has no inherent dangers if people are responsible.

Just test EVERYTHING that you breed to a LWO+ stallion and you will be OK.

 

[Songcatcher]

The problem is NOT with breding LWO + animals. The problem is people who know NOTHING breeding period. Far too many people who have no idea of what they are doing are breeding. I see new posts almost daily to such effect.

 

[Bunnylady]

I agree that the problem isn't the LWO gene, it's ignorance. We keep talking about breeding responsibly, but how far does that responsibility go? Knowing the LWO status of your own animals is a good start, but do you feel honor-bound to make sure anyone that buys a possibly LWO+ horse from you knows what that means? It's all very well to say "educate yourself before you start breeding," but if you haven't ever heard of lethal genes, why would you try to find out if horses have them? A person could do a lot of research on the subject of equine reproduction, but still not know about LWO, or (possibly) lethal roan. I think this forum and others like it are some of the best tools for getting the information out there, where people who are only vaguely interested can at least be exposed to it, whether or not they understand it. I find color genetics fascinating, but am dismayed by how many people I encounter that either completely misunderstand how these things work, or say "I just can't understand it," and give up trying.

 

[iowa]

Exactly my point! Too many people don't know about the LWO gene that start breeding horses. Sure they could become educated about it, but they probably won't until they get their first Lethal White foal and wonder what happened. The paint horse people found they could produce Overos without the LWO gene, so why can't we miniature people?

 

[targetsmom]

But you can't produce FRAME OVEROS without the LWO gene.... And, getting back to the OP point, if you want to eliminate all LWO+ miniatures to avoid the chance of getting a lethal white foal, then there goes Rowdy. I for one, cannot imagine where miniature horses would be today without his influence.

ETA: most of the horses in my avatar have Rowdy blood - at least one is LWO+ but our stallion is not. Gelding not tested!