OUR "07" OVERO/DUN ??? COLT? UPDATED PHOTOS..

[HaazeMinis]

Hi Melissa

As you requested here are photos of this colts Sire and Dam

Oh and his registered name is being with held for now.... :lol: Until I am sure it goes through... :bgrin

:

First is his Dam she is the Pinto Mare with the Blaze face

Next is his sire...

Pedigree information can be seen on my Website on the Stallion and Mare Page if you wanted to look into the pedigrees too.

Oh and he just maybe a keeper too! We are hanging on to him for a while before we make any decisions...

:

Thanks for the compliments everyone......... :bgrin

 

[rabbitsfizz]

He is Silver Bay + Tobiano + Splash- the test for Tobiano is not at all reliable- I would not waste your money, unless you are testing for H/Z Tobiano then it is pretty accurate.

It relies on alleles similar to and known to be associated with Tobiano- there is no test for Tobiano, it has not yet been isolated.

I do not think he is Dun, I think it is the Silver supplying the false dorsal.

He is a pretty colt, for sure.

I do not call this "overo" as I find it very confusing to have patterns not related to one another genetically all lumped together.

It would be an idea to test for LWO, and Silver , and Black and Agouti- I think all this has been said??

I would not bother with Tobiano unless as mentioned he is possible H/Z.

Oh- I see hos sire is solid- so dam is Tobiano + Splash- I would test the dam for LWO just to be safe- if she is neg then do is the colt.- That way you kill two birds with one stone.

 

[HaazeMinis]

Hi

I'm sorry I can't see the pictures but just wanted to know if his sire is a dun and has dun factor including the dorsal stripe? If not, his sire cannot "carry" dun nor pass it to his offspring. Dun is not "hidden" for the want of a better word. If a horse has even only one allele of dun (Dd) then he will be dun and you will see dun factor and he will pass it 50% of the time to his offspring. A horse can be homozygous for dun (2 alleles of dun DD) and will also be a dun with dun factor but will look no different than the dun with one allele- the only difference will be the DD horse will produce all dun -either DD or Dd depending on the mare. No test for this yet so can only prove DD by produce.

Congrats on your new guy!

Hi

Darn, you cant see the pictures? :no: Well anyway, yes his sire does have a Dorsal stripe I just posted photos of his sire on this thread so hopefully you can see them???

:

Jeri

He is Silver Bay + Tobiano + Splash- the test for Tobiano is not at all reliable- I would not waste your money, unless you are testing for H/Z Tobiano then it is pretty accurate.

It relies on alleles similar to and known to be associated with Tobiano- there is no test for Tobiano, it has not yet been isolated.

I do not think he is Dun, I think it is the Silver supplying the false dorsal.

He is a pretty colt, for sure.

I do not call this "overo" as I find it very confusing to have patterns not related to one another genetically all lumped together.

It would be an idea to test for LWO, and Silver , and Black and Agouti- I think all this has been said??

I would not bother with Tobiano unless as mentioned he is possible H/Z.

Oh- I see hos sire is solid- so dam is Tobiano + Splash- I would test the dam for LWO just to be safe- if she is neg then do is the colt.- That way you kill two birds with one stone.

THANKS RABBIT!! Yes, that is an idea too! Since his sire is Solid and neither of his parents carry Pinto (that I know of) I am thinking his Pinto genetics has to come from the colts dam.

I just posted phots of his Sire on this thread...Is this stallion not a Dun????? This colts stripe is very very dark and goes into his tail??

: Did you see the photos Rabbit?

Jeri

 

[MBhorses]

Hi MelissaAs you requested here are photos of this colts Sire and Dam

Oh and his registered name is being with held for now.... :lol: Until I am sure it goes through... :bgrin

:

First is his Dam she is the Pinto Mare with the Blaze face

Next is his sire...

Pedigree information can be seen on my Website on the Stallion and Mare Page if you wanted to look into the pedigrees too.

Oh and he just maybe a keeper too! We are hanging on to him for a while before we make any decisions...

:

Thanks for the compliments everyone......... :bgrin

Jeri,

I love your pinto mares. Nice looking stud as well.

Very cute fellow.

Keep us posted

melissa

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

That stallion is not what I would consider a dun ..He is a bay some people call them wild bays I always called them line back bay I had a line back bay stallion he was a bay and threw bays most of the time who had that same countershading.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I tend to agree with Lisa- I would like to see the stallion clipped to see if the dorsal stays on the skin- or see a definite Dun from him- there is a test for Dun in the wings as it were but I do not know how long it will take to appear. He gets all his Pinto form his Dam who is Tobiano + Splash, for sure, but could have LWO- as said it would be worth testing the mare- if she is negative so is the foal so you would only need one test.

If she is positive the foal would need to be tested.

The stallion is not Wild Bay- that is a distinct colour- although I know you were saying "some people call it" Lisa I thought I would just put that straight.

 

[Meavey]

I agree with Rabbit, silver bay + tobiano + splash, I doubt frame but you could test to make sure.

I agree there is no dun.

 

[Karin - NaKar Miniatures]

I have to agree with Rabbitfizz. Silver bay + tobiano + splash

I had a colt that looked similar to your little boy and that is what he was. You can see him in my avatar. He is the red & white pinto. Another sign, I have been told, is the bottom lip will also be pink.

Cute colt, by the way!

:

Edited for spelling!

 

[PaintedPromiseRanch]

he's a handsome boy for sure!! :aktion033: :aktion033:

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

I would have to agree with Rabbit on this one too. He sure is a cute little one. Thaks for all the pictures really enjoyed them.. I really like his name too, but I'm not telling :bgrin Corinne

 

[lyn_j]

My vote is also silver bay tobiano. Overos usually have dark legs his leg markings are definately tobiano. I dont see a dun factor. I think as he grows that stipe on his back will disapear.

Lyn

 

[GREENWOODMINIS]

CONGRATULATIONS :aktion033: :aktion033: ...How beautiful!!!!!

lis

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, he is not JUST Tobiano, Lyn.

This si why I dislike the term "overo"

At the moment "overo" covers Splash Frame and Sabino.

Of these only Frame has dark legs, and then only if there is no other pattern present.

I do not know of any Frames that do not have another pattern present (although there must be some??)

Certainly not in Minis.

I do know plenty of LWO tested Frames that have white legs.

Tobiano does not carry face white, so, if the horse is Tobiano and has face white then it has another pattern.

There is not thought to be any such thing as "normal white markings" they are all caused by one or other of the pinto markings- Sabino and Splash being the most usual candidates.

Although none of this is as yet proven by testing it has been proven by breeding in a number of cases.

 

[HaazeMinis]

Hi

Thank you all for the compliments on our new little boy! :bgrin

To answer a question that rabbit asked about seeing his sire clipped and the dorsal stripe still being there. I have had this stallion since he was a weanling and he is now 3 and has been clipped many many times and his dorsal strip is always there after clipping....I also know that his dam had had a dorsal strip, as well as his granddam (dams side) who was a Silver Buckskin Fallen Ash Farms Shesa Frosty fox- sired by IMA Buckeroo Two who I was told was also a Dun carrying Silver...So that is why I "assumed" Dun was a factor here....

:

I have photos of them and have been told by the breeder who owns/owned both grandparents in Michigan (Celtic Field)that they both spoted the Dorsal stripes and other characteristics....

: ...

Oh well, This colts sire has also sired one other colt that sports a dorsal stripe as well.....so....

: Very interesting....

: I even clipped a little on this older colts rear and wither area late this summer to see if he still had it and he did and still does even grown out hair and he is now almost 6 months old?

Jeri

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

oops

 

[HaazeMinis]

Well Jeri--you know what I think of the little guy.

: I'm honored you like the name I suggested. but I won't tell.

:

Sigh--he's everything I LOVE in color. Everything. Just everything. Sigh. If only he were a she....but you'd be holding onto a her tightly.

:

You know, his sire looks a lot like another stallion I know well....

: Maybe...just maybe...someday there could be a wee one that looks like that show up in my barn.

AWE!

: Thanks Karla!!!

Yep! your babies will be here before you know it!!! :bgrin :bgrin I cant wait to see Jazz Babies!!

:

: Jazz does look like that other stallion now dont he!!! :lol: :lol:

:

:

I LOVE JAZZ!

:

Jeri

 

[Wiggy]

I didn't think a dorsal stripe... on its own... was a sign of a horse being a dun.... that stallion looks very much bay to me...

I had a stallion who had a dorsal stripe (clipped or not) and even some shoulder shadows... but he was as red as anything... isn't a dun a "dilute" of sorts... in that the body coat would be a more gold color?

 

[MountainViewMiniatures]

Hi

I finally see the pics and he is a cutie!

:

I still do not think he is a dun - his dorsal stripe looks incomplete and fades as it gets nearer to the withers- this usually means not a true dorsal stripe and probably won't be there by the time he's a yearling. As a matter of fact the IBHA (Buckskin and dun color registry) will only issue temporary papers to foals and weanlings because of so many false dorsal stripes/duns - as a yearling you submit pictures and can then get your permanent papers. You can have a dun exhibiting only a dorsal stripe (more common in red duns) but they usually have more than 1 dun factor and is actually desired.

Sire does look like a zebra dun to me - just curious, does he have any other dun factor? I would bet within this year or next you will see the test for dun become available and then I would test him so you know either way. Wild bays do not have the black on their legs extending too much past their pasterns - if you have ever seen one they look like they have black socks!

I have not breed dun miniature horses but have breed dun and cream dilute AQHA for almost 25 years but the color genes are the same. Although, rarely see silver in AQHA!

edited for spelling!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Dorsal strip that actually sires foals with dorsals is Dun- whatever the registration society says, all that is needed is dark head and points and a definite dorsal and the "proven by breeding " thing.

Bay Duns, real, BAY Duns are the most difficult to identify by sight as a lot of the other characteristics disappear into the Bay body.

My stallion Rabbit has no barring, just a dark head and slightly darker legs and a prominent dorsal.

He has hundreds of offspring, many of which are Black Dun- he is a Dun.

I just LOVE societies that style themselves "international" when they are limited to the US- we have never heard of this society here, yet we have many Duns, that are Duns.

True the Welsh society has not yet caught up with the fact that there is no Dun in Welsh but I have no doubt they will, eventually :lol:

Same with the Connemara society.

If the stallion exhibits these characteristics and has sired a Dun foal he is Dun.

BUT the foal in question still does not look Dun to me.

Go here

http://www.equinecolor.com/contact.html

Go to the Forum and on the General Forum ask for Hoofpick.

She tests Dun hairs by sight.

It is not foolproof but it is pretty sure.

It would be interesting to test the stallion too.

Oh and the price is right- she only charges postage!!!

 

[HaazeMinis]

Thank You Everyone!! :bgrin

I am glad MountainView Miniatures was finally able to see the pictures!! :aktion033:

Well, no matter what color this little boy turns out to be we feel he is pretty anyway.

:

As far as the strip on the foal it does extend to the withers and the only reason it looks faded is because we just took the foals blanket off for the pictures so the hair was somewhat layed down in the pictures... It could also be that my camera flash and the angle of the camera too. So, I guess will see if he keeps it as his half brother has done so far(that colt is almost 6 months). Now its to cold to clip either so we will wait until spring.

Thanks for the link Rabbit I will go there and get information on the test...

: I knew this link had been disscussed before , but could not find it.

:

Thanks Everyone,

Have A Great Day! :bgrin

Jeri