Prices of mini's going down the drain...

[MiniHoofBeats]

Is it just me, or am I seeing the world if miniature horses just going straight down the hole??? I have only been in the mini world for almost a year but already i'm hearing the talk and seeing the proof that so many of us are losing interest and hope in our mini's!!!

It frustrates me to see an amazingly refined, show quality, awesome pedigree and great confirmation both of the foal and the parents...going for a measly $5-600!!! Or a perfect, dishy headed double registered colt going for $250??? I mean, don't get me wrong, they would totally fit in my price range but honestly, what is happening to our market? I understand during winter months some prices go down anyhow but this is ridiculous! I had to consistently lower the prices on my sale horses to meet with current prices of everyone elses low offers because people kept writing me saying "well so and so has such and such for a third of that price...". I stuck my ground for a while but eventually broke down to a friend...which to me is ok...but breaking down to the general public? If you have a horse that you know is worth a firm price, why let it go for so cheap? I personally am more proud of an expensive horse that I had to save up for, than for a cheap horse that I bought with my pocket change. JMHO.

I went to my first mini horse club meeting last night and what really sticks in my head is how one of the members received an e-mail from a lady, regarding a gorgeous black and white pinto colt, asking if she could purchase the colt for.....$125.00 !!! This colts sire is amazing and he had a loving personality to die for...how can people think because they are so small, they should be cheap? GRRR THIS FRUSTRATES ME! Large horses sell on average in the high thousands to double digits easily, even the crappy confirmation ones sell for a couple grand...I could see going cheap once in a while for a good friend, but to just hand over your precious ones raised with love and your time...

Is anyone else seeing this or is it just me? I mean if this really bothers a lot of people i'll just delete the post but I want to know if I am the only one upset because prices are just ridiculous, or if it is just me? I don't want to cause a big hubbub but I am just entering the miniature horse world and it saddens me to see it shutting down so quickly, large horse people are seeing the mini market as a bunch of raggedy fleas because they hear all about the "under $1000" sales and they're laughing at us, they're wondering why we even have them, as if they're a bunch of cheap dogs. Right off hand, I can only think of a couple BIG farm names, and I don't mean quantity, I mean quality...quality and priced high, too high for me but I would be ever so proud to own one of their horses! Anyone know what I mean?

 

[Sterling]

When I first got into miniature horses 8 years ago, I remember a couple of big farms here in south Jersey. At the time I was looking for my first mini as just a companion for my QH mare. Boy was I shocked at the sticker prices of them.....fast forward to today.....there are alot of very nice miniature horses now for a whole lot less than back then. I don't know if it's because back then, the minis were just starting to get popular here in this region, but now those big named farms are gone and no longer breeding and you have alot of people breeding not so well known bloodlines, and they are farms that do not have an established breeding program or name out there. I can honestly say that here in my area miniature horses are not in abundance, probably why there hardly are any shows around either.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Well and again don't take me the wrong way, obviously some small farms just have mini's for fun and not for great confirmation/show, etc. so those horses I can see going as pet quality for fun for the family but...when we're talking of show quality foals and horses coming from a well respected farm going for so cheap because the market is now down so low, that saddens me...

 

[mininik]

Not to be snotty, but the term "show quality" really means nothing to me. There are no standards: anything can be entered into a show. Also, who is "well respected" in your opinion for doing what and what do you think that should mean for the pricing of their stock? Winter never helps the market but I do know I'm not seeing any $250-600. ponies coming out of places like Arion, Lucky Four, El Rancho Loco, Olympian, K-Nell, etc.!

 

[stormy]

I think there are a few things happening, and please this is just my opinion or observation, you do not have to agree. Lots of people losing their jobs here in Michigan, no job security means no buying "luxury items like horses. At the horse auctions here you can buy a decent riding horse for less than $500 and often $200 or $300.

Overproduction of "pet" quility minis and lack of marketing by miniature breeders. There are lots of colts available for $100, why should someone just looking for a pet pay more?? We as breeders need to show them the reasons our horses are worth more and offer/support mini and open shows/parades/events in our areas.

And again I am getting from potential buyers "I hear they are just small Shetlands, I had a shetland as a kid and it was evil/hot/rank etc." Putting the hot back in by making the Modern Shetland look the prefered look at shows is not helping...the specialty market is small, I do not believe the larger market is looking for a hot horse only a trainer can handle.

As breeders it seems we are expecting the public to seek us out, we are not out in the public forum and everytime we get some free publicity, on a TV show, in a catalogue, etc. everyone starts screaming about how the publicity is bad for the welfare of the miniature horse, more people might buy them who are not familiar with their needs. Well than we need to support those who buy from us and educate them! Not refuse them the pleasure of owning a mini. I know many on this board started out with little or no horse experiance and are growing into caring and knowledgable owners.

So I will get off my soapbox now with one last comment. The Quarter Horse is and was one of the fastest growing breeds in the world and the performance gelding is the life blood of that industry. We need to do more with and promote the mini gelding, really the perfect answer for the family on small acerage.

 

[Erica]

Quality horses bring Quality prices (for the most part), there are still lots of nice miniatures bringing GOOD prices. To get good prices you have to have a demand for what you are producing and people wanting what you got.

And there are a few diamonds in the rough for sure - I have bought a couple through the years.......

 

[shminifancier]

The prices have been low now for some years as got a nice show mare for 450 6 years ago never unbeaten in the show ring when I bought her and showed her just at a few shows and was getting 2nd places and I did not even have her in show shape and nor was I.. So you can get nice showing and breeding quality out there at low prices..And now some f these prices are even going lower yet..ouch that has gotta hurt some folks but sure is a buyers market~!

 

[Sandee]

The prices have been low now for some years as got a nice show mare for 450 6 years ago never unbeaten in the show ring when I bought her and showed her just at a few shows and was getting 2nd places and I did not even have her in show shape and nor was I.. So you can get nice showing and breeding quality out there at low prices..And now some f these prices are even going lower yet..ouch that has gotta hurt some folks but sure is a buyers market~!

All I can say is where were those "deals" when I was looking. I started out wanting a "well trained ex-show" miniature for parades. I paid 4 figures for that gelding at age 15 -16. At 18 he can still out perform most in the obstacle and has beat top stallions for color class. He taught us how to drive so he was "worth it".

Then I wanted a "looker" for show and got my little stallion - 4 figures again. ("hey, you can make it back on breeding!")

Next we wanted a classy driving horse and after looking at several already trained and showing decided we couldn't afford the prices so we got our filly - again 4 figures. This particular breeder does get a lot for his horses because they've developed quite a market in Europe. Europe doesn't have the amount of refined minis that we do and the demand it high there.

I think when you hear of a "good" horse selling cheap it's more like listening to a neighbor who got such a deal at the rummage sale. It sounds good but try to find it yourself.

:

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

I"m glad to hear so many responses to this post, I wanted to see what everyones opinions were out there in regards to the mini market.

Remember, I too agree that the prices are definately more affordable to my pocket right now, and I wouldn't turn down a definate beauty just because s/he's cheaply priced! It just truly saddens me to see where the market is going, but I am glad more people are able to afford them. I know I just can't wait to get out there and start showing!

 

[Frankie]

Quality horses bring Quality prices (for the most part), there are still lots of nice miniatures bringing GOOD prices.

Yip, especially when I am buying!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I am with Erica, I have not had any trouble getting good prices for example a show quality AMHR futurity 2 year old that is borderline A/B I recently sold for 2000.00. What some people are calling "show quality" are in my book pet quality..... I find the prices for the good B horses for another example going up. Doc Taylors sale had the highest numbers he has ever had with ASPC fillies selling for over 2000. and the Double registered aspc amhr fillies starting at 2500 and going up as high as 5000..... this at a production sale. That is different from an auction. I dont see any of this going down the hole...... average to below average horses will bring below average prices but the good ones people wait in line for. I have 3 people waiting to see what I will have for sale out of my mares this year and the prices are NOT cheap. At natopnals ® there were people waiting for the McCarthys to unload their 05 babies, checkbooks in hand and they ALL sold in a matter of a couple of days average price was 7,000. Thats not a bad market![/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[dmkrieg]

where are those kinds of deals at...I bought 3 horses in the last 2months and we spent $6000. And to tell you the truth I thought I got a deal on each of them. The only place I have found a deal at was at an auction, then you have to worry about sickness in those sale barns. I have NEVER found a horse for $400-$500 especially if they are show quality. If you have them please let me know.

 

[Sanny]

I think there is an overabundance of nice little minis that are for sale that are only halter broke and have not been handled much so might have nice personalities and have potential to do more but have not had the time and energy put into them to make them worth more to a buyer, especially to someone new to minis.

We just spent several months looking for another show gelding or mare and I can tell you the proven show quality minis that have time and training invested in them and that have been shown successfully are going for plenty. We looked all over the country and prices averaged $5,000 or more for the sort of mini we wanted - even for a gelding. One of the GELDINGS I liked best was for sale at a "reduced" price of $8,500.

This past fall at one of the nicest mini auctions around (IMO) I saw a lot of minis - especially the weanlings and especially the colts selling for $100-$200. Some were average, but many did have a lot of potential and were from nice farms/well respected breeders/trainers. There was a little tiny silver dapple gelding about 28"-29" tall, NOT registered, uncertain age (probably around 8 or 9 years old but not sure) that went for $1,000. He was extremely well broke to drive and the trainer that brought him had him hitched and available for anyone to drive and try him out. He was a sweetheart and totally family and kid friendly but it was amazing that he went for $1,000 and there were double registered young minis going for $100-$200.

We need to do more with and promote the mini gelding, really the perfect answer for the family on small acerage.

I have to say, I love my geldings!! I've got a barn full now

: Though I have to say we do have a super driving mare that we got in the fall that I am still getting to know and love and I think she will be wonderful as well but I have no intention of breeding her. I do think there is too much breeding going on. Many people within the mini world seem to think if you have a mini mare of breeding age and she ISN'T bred that something must be wrong with her. The mindset on that is SO WRONG. This mare was one of the few mares NOT bred that were at the sale and no one bid against us and we got her for a steal. We didn't go planning to buy but couldn't pass her up. We also knew the person that bred, raised and trained her and knew exactly what we were getting (a great horse) She is only 5 years old and already Hall of Fame in Country Pleasure and very close in Roadster and has been shown successfully by a youth in halter and showmanship too.

Though having said that I have to admit I was thrilled to get so much for such a deal. We did have a trainer attempt to buy her from us back in the barn for more after the sale but there was no way I was going to sell her at that point.

Overproduction of "pet" quality minis and lack of marketing by miniature breeders. There are lots of colts available for $100, why should someone just looking for a pet pay more?? We as breeders need to show them the reasons our horses are worth more and offer/support mini and open shows/parades/events in our areas.

In regards to the above quote, I want to say there are a lot of very careful breeders out there that really care about their horses and are selective in what breeding they do. HOWEVER as an example....last year my family visited a farm that had a HUGE pasture filled with minis - I hope just one stallion, but who knows, I just know we walked out into the pasture and it was filled with mares and babies and the stallion and we couldn't get near any of the babies...they were terrified of us...some of the mares were willing to be petted but that was it. Obviously all of these mares were bred back again for the next year, and the guy was selling off the whole herd. If we'd actually wanted one of his horses I don't know how we'd have caught it...the pasture was huge, rolling hills, woods, etc. Thankfully the guy was retiring and getting out of minis, but I have no idea who he managed to sell them to and for what final price.

 

[HGFarm]

Ok, this is just my opinion now.... the market over the last say, 15 years has become 'glutted'. Minis used to be somewhat rare and exotic- now they are everywhere- mass produced in my opinion.

So so quality bred to so so quality or less. The horses in this price range may be healthy and correct, but I guarantee you they will probably not show up at Nationals and place!! Or even at a pointed show and place.

I have not had any trouble getting decent prices for decent horses and am VERY careful about what I breed. If it is pet quality, I sell at a pet quality price. I reduced prices quite a bit last fall as I was taking a journey overseas and needed the money to finish funding my trip, but they did NOT sell for $500.00!!

I think many more horses should be gelded and some mares just not bred. They are not good examples of the breed. Rather than 'mass producing' - be picky about what you breed/buy. Just because it can produce a foal, does not mean it should be bred.

I am not saying only breed show winners to show winners- as some fantastic horses will never see a show ring, but I have seen less than desirable horses being bred, and then there is no market for the offspring. Some of these places have over a 100 broodmares and are pumping out foals right and left. The market is getting filled up, but the GOOD ones will still bring a price.

Just my opinion

 

[KrisP]

I'm glad to see this being discussed and really enjoying seeing everyones opinions. I also agree that there is a glut of horses on the market. One thing to remember is the life span of minis, they aren't something that is just around for a year or two or five, they are here for a LONG time and a lot of thought should go into breeding each mare.

My problem is that I have quite a few mares that I think should NOT be bred again but how do you rehome them? Sure, I've sold as pets to someone that promises not to breed only to run into them a few years later to be told, ohhhh, we had the CUTEST baby (UGHHHHHHHHHHHH) Or my phone rings and it's someone that bought a mare sold as a pet and they've bred her. I SO wish there was a way to chemically spay a mare and mark her papers! And yes, I also run into people all the time that think something is wrong with a mare if she's not bred every year, boy they'd REALLY think I have a bunch of "bad" mares here then, we have 35 breeding age mares here and only 5 in foal for this year, only had 3 foals last year, my choice though! Just because they exist doesn't mean they have to pop out a baby each year.

Some of these mares are permanantly retired from breeding and if I could GUARANTEE a good PERMANANT pet home they would be there in a flash!

As for the 100-200 colts, again, don't breed every mare every year, don't breed them just because they have reproductive organs, think about the future, can you be responsible for them if you can't find them a home?

And GELD GELD GELD GELD GELD and PROMOTE them! I have a LOT of boys here right now but MOST will NOT be leaving before they're gelded. These are good boys but will be so much happier as a gelding!

We also need to be kind and EDUCATE newbies into the world of minis, how many of you have had that phone call "I just bought a bred mare with a foal on her side for 500 and a weanling colt for $75-200 and we're looking for more mares to breed! Oh, we don't have the papers yet, the guy we got them from at the auction said when he gets them from the PREVIOUS owner he'll send them to us! (we have an auction that runs here 2x a year and these ARE the prices they go through for) I have had SEVERAL of those this year alone, I ALWAYS invite them over and we end up talking for 1-3 hours, we walk the field, we look at conformation, we discuss breeding, foaling, costs, etc. I point out conformation flaws, health problems, the REALITY that you're NOT going to make a fortune at this and that you'd better be doing it for the love of the horses

I also know a few people in the area probably think I'm a snob about it, I'm NOT trying to be!!! I'm MORE critical of my own horses than of anyone elses, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is on my breeding and cutting back on my breeding and really using a critical eye on each and every aspect of my program. The HORSES come first for me and I don't want to hear of any of mine ending up going from home to home to home.

I also am not judging those who breed more, if they have a good market for their corner in the breed then wonderful! But if you find yourself having to have a winter clearance sale every year and selling them for low prices then sit back and take a look at what your doing, what should you change?

Ok, lol, can you guys see that I've been putting a lot of thought into this? :new_shocked:

krisp

 

[Margaret]

So far I have not had any experience with having to "low-ball" any of the minis that I have sold. Granted, they have all been quite nice, as well as registered, so they all went to good homes, at good prices.. However, when I got into this business, I kind of knew that this "might" get competitive price wise, so the breeding stock that I invested in was potential show quality. Their bloodlines alone speak for them selves consistant in impressive show record.. "IF" I ever have to compete with selling registered horses that are quite a bit lower in price, -I am hoping that the buyers "also" consider the "quality" background that my horses have, that most of these lower priced ones dont have.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well IMO we are all to blame - that is anyone who breeds a mare even one mare.. that foal can go on to have many foals who go on to have many foals.

Somehow we all as breeders seem to think the problem lays with others, not our program we are breeding quality foals. Well the truth is quality is very subjective, a show record does not a quality horse make. There are many quality horses sitting in someones yard being a wonderful pet.

Until we all (and yes totally including myself) stand up and take a stand - realize that as long as we are breeding like it or not we are part of the problem and do something that even though it may seem is small will make a difference.

It may be gelding every colt you sell one year, or leaving 2 mares open one year I have said here before many times if all those who on this fourm alone that breed left just one mare open they were going to breed (before you gasp trust me the mini world will go on just fine :lol: ) that would be at least 300+ foals not flooding the market this year. (ok so I am guessing on that number but you get my point

: )

And yes I myself am doing just this with only one possibly bred for 2006 and planning on only breeding 1 oe 2 for 2007 even though I have more breeding age mares. Maybe it will make a difference maybe not but for me it is making a small sacrifice and a start anyway in slowing down the tons of mares producing foals every year.

 

[wendy4mini]

I can only comment on what I have seen in many different breeds in the past few years. It seems like the top of line, National show quality horses are holding their value and selling well. The problem is the middle and lower range quality is being effected by economic concerns. Many of the "big horse" breeds have their National show auction results published. I try and keep up with the Paso Fino, AQHA, APHA and the Thoroughbred industries. I what I see is the top quality is doing quite well. The mid and lower range prices are effected by consumers paying more for fuel etc. and having less money for non-essentials

 

[small herd]

I don't think prices are going down the drain. Minis that are bad quality - yes, but not the good ones.

I am not going to feel quilty breeding one mare this year since I have never had a foal born at my place in the 6 years I have owned minis.

 

[Relic]

We don't breed a lot each year but this is funny the guy below was for sale for 3 years for 350 bucks and we couldn't get that for him people that looked thought he was over priced we liked him and just held on. He isn't the best just a pet but could have made a great pet at that price for someone we thought anyway. Another farm told us to teach him to drive and jack up his price and take him to a few shows. We did that he got himself a reserve in halter and came in good in color his price was jacked up to 1500 and 3 days after we got him home from the last show he was sold as a pet to a pet home for ta da 1500.

This guy was the same took him to 2 shows was taught to drive but we didn't drive him at any show he wasn't bad as far as a pet went but no one would buy till the price was jacked up. The horses themselves were the same same faults same temperments just a little work and a show or two thrown in and the money came. This one we couldn't get 300 for him for the first 3 years no matter how hard we tried and we did try hard. He sold a few days after we got home from his last show for a 1000.