Question about hardshipping in AMHA

[horsehug]

My question is this.

If someone dies, and has miniature horses that are only in their own name, and they do not leave behind any kind of will or executor of their estate, and the horses are dispersed by friends or family who may have been involved with the horses, but not had them in their names, so that there is no one to sign a transfer, would AMHA allow a new owner of one of these horses to hardship it back into the AMHA, or would it be destined to live its whole life with the papers in the name of the deceased person and no way to register its foals?

Or does AMHA in fact have a way to deal with a situation like this, perhaps allowing a family member to sign a transfer with a copy of a death certificate?

Thanks,

Susan O.

 

[chandab]

Susan,

I honestly don't know, but it came up in a thread recently. [The thread about plans for horses if something should happen to you.] I think you can find the thread here: http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.ph...lans+after+gone

Hopefully, the link will work. I think someone posted about what the registries do, but you may have to call to find out for certain.

 

[horsehug]

Thanks Chanda,

Yes my question involves the same situation that Minimule was asking about also.

Susan O.

 

[sfmini]

I am thinking that those people didn't have the legal right to disburse anything. The courts should appoint an executor and that person has the legal right to disburse assets, but only after the estate has been through probate or has special permission to sell since they are dealing with living creatures. That executor would then have the right to sign tranfers.

Can you tell I have been executor before? Even a simple estate with a will takes a year to go through probate.

My experience only deals with Ohio, but it should be fairly standard.

I just read the other thread, one concern is that and/or on ownership. Be very thoughtful about that, as there are big legal differences.

and - means both have to sign any transfers, they also become part of marital property and come into consideration in a divorce, and in the settling of an estate as the survivor has to pay inheritance taxes on the 1/2 they inherit.

or - means either can sign transfers which means one angry partner can come in, take the horses and sell them and the other person is SOL. Sorry to say it happens, people play dirty pool all of the time.

 

[Little Bits]

I had a friend who passed away. he also had no will when his wife became the executor (whom was appointed by the judge in probate court) she was alowed to sign the transfers. I believe she had to send a copy oc the death certificate along with the registrations. Being they are live stock they were alowed to disperse them quicker. It still took 6 months to get the papers. I wouldn't do anything until the horses were appointed an executor. Forgery is fraudulent. People can be funny in these situations. Good Luck.

 

[horsehug]

Thanks Jody,

It was all done after a lawyer in the town was consulted, but you might very well be right.

And the horse I took was one I had sold the man who died and he had actually offered her back to me before he died in payment for a loan I had made to him. I was being patient on waiting to be paid back and did not really intend to add to my herd, but when he died I took her knowing he had offered her to me.

However I do look at it as "I am taking care of her" in case anything is changed if there is any kind of court thing that goes on.

I would certainly give her back in that case.

The people who are taking care of the remaining ones really need to find homes for them before a year or more goes by though. Does a case like this go to probate even without a will?

This case has lots of twists and turns. If he had been married I am sure the horses would go to his wife or at least I think they would, but he had a male partner and I don't think the law applies the same way, at least not to my knowledge here in Wyoming. Although his partner's mother told me the lawyer was looking into a survivorship clause if possible. I wish his partner's name had been on more than one horse but it is only on one. And he does not want to keep any of them. But he can't sign transfers either.

It is a complicated and difficult situation to say the least with lots more details than I have posted. I still have not gotten the answer to my question about if she could be hardshipped back in, but I guess the answer must be no.

And as to the ones that were let go, other than the one I have here....... they were paid for or owned by others but had not shipped yet. And they are now with their owners.

As far as I know none of the others have been sold yet. Even though his partner in the horses does not want them anymore.

Thanks for the info.

Susan O.

 

[sfmini]

Susan, you can hardshipp her back in to AMHA before 2013, so that answer is yes, but her pedigree and produce records are lost to her, and she would need a new name.

 

[chandab]

I I still have not gotten the answer to my question about if she could be hardshipped back in, but I guess the answer must be no.
Thanks for the info.

Susan O.

I'm sure if you want to pay the fees and have an inspector out, you can do a regular hardship on her; but then you'd be paying the high hardship fees plus the cost to get the person out to inspect.

 

[horsehug]

Thanks Jody and Chanda,

Yes I know it would cost me the $600 plus finding a director and DNA costs, like I have done several times over the years.

But she is a mare I bred and sold when she was weaned and it would be worth it to me to have registered babies from her.

And I could give her a very "similar" name to the one I gave her the first time.

I think I'll wait until I see if anything legal happens first about the horses. I would not want to have to give her up again for some reason after paying to do that. I sure hope it does not take a long time though..... like years.

And then too, possibly the partner or a relative or someone appointed by the court might be able to sign a transfer eventually. I just do not know enough about the law to understand what makes it so this case would even go to probate unless that is something that automatically has to happen?

Thanks again,

Susan O.

 

[Minimor]

Here if a person dies without a will, the estate still goes to probate court--only instead of a probate you get what is called Letters of Administration, where the court appoints an Administrator to administer the estate. Once there is an LOA, the Administrator can do things like sign transfers on horses, sell and transfer land/home, etc. I don't honestly know how long it takes for an estate to go through this court process.

If an estate is less that $10000.00 in total then instead of an LOA you can apply for an Administration Order, which appoints a representative to administer the estate--that person will distribute whatever assets the deceased had to whatever family and/or friends there may be. If the deceased owned a small piece of real estate that wasn't worth very much money such an Order vests that property directly to some beneficiary--the property doesn't have to be put into the name of the Administrator and then be transferred to the beneficiary, it goes directly to the beneficiary.

Any estate valued at over $10000 must go to probate court (here). However, if everything is joint owned, then it's different. Everything I own is jointly owned with my mother. If something were to happen to me my estate wouldn't have to be probated--because technically there is no estate. Upon my decease she is the owner of everything. She would produce a death certificate & sign the appropriate form, and our home would be put into her name. My life insurance shows her as beneficiary and so that would be paid directly to her--it wouldn't go to my estate. She has signing authority on my bank account so she would have access to that as "her" money. She has signing authority as agent on the horses, and so she would be able to sell them and transfer the papers.