Question on your perception for a stallion to drop

[ClickMini]

My little boy was just surgically gelded at age 2-1/2. I want to show him, and he cannot show as a sr. stallion without having descended. One of his was still "up." When they went in to find it, they had to go into his abdomen. No way was it ever coming down.

So now he will go out and earn some gelding money for me instead of creating beautiful babies!

 

[wpsellwood]

Im just wondering if in the US people are more open about it???? I dont know just something throwing out there. I know on this forum people discuss alot of stuff that someone else might tend to keep to themselves. Could it be that??? So it seems to be more common? I dont know............... All of my colts have been dropped. Weve only had one so far lol

 

[capall beag]

I live in Maine and here a routine geld is about 1/5 of what it would cost if the colt has one undescended testicle.

I would not want to produce colts that were late bloomers because at the time of sale you can not guarantee he will ever be 'normal'.

Just my opinion.

I would never knowingly buy a colt that was not fully dropped.

I think it is a very big deal if you are selling the colt. If you are keeping him and are unconcerned about when he drops then it is different.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I too would not want tp produce late dropping colts[i think by 2 at least they should be dropped] because it could be hard to guarantee them and it also makes it difficult and more expensive to have them gelded at a younger age. Not a good thing for a buyer at all. JMO Mary

I live in Maine and here a routine geld is about 1/5 of what it would cost if the colt has one undescended testicle. I would not want to produce colts that were late bloomers because at the time of sale you can not guarantee he will ever be 'normal'.

Just my opinion.

I would never knowingly buy a colt that was not fully dropped.

I think it is a very big deal if you are selling the colt. If you are keeping him and are unconcerned about when he drops then it is different.

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[rabbitsfizz]

Brenda you make a very valid point- I seem to be the only regular contributer from the UK but you have to remember I am also one of the biggest breeders. The only colt I have known with a real problem was American bred. BUT I am open to being proven wrong, as always.

 

[Sandee]

Most of what I've read says they should be down by age three. Since there isn't a lot out there on miniatures you'll have to play the age 5 thing by ear.

As to breeding my guy has already bred as a 2 year old and was successful. It was all hand breeding and it didn't make him "studdy" at all. In fact it worked a bit the opposite. He became more calm.

Good Luck

 

[Miniv]

I'd be concerned with a colt that wasn't showing his jewels at birth, however they will often pull them back up within a week or two of birth.

It is common for them to drop again in their 2nd year with some waiting til age three.

It is more rare for a colt to drop later than three and by then I would be nervous.

MA

 

[miniwhinny]

One testicle descended would worry the life out of me,

That's how I feel daily rabbitfiz. I have worried over this since I got him as a weanling.

I have a 1 1/2 year old colt purchased as a breeding stallion who only has one testicle. He's had only one for as long as I can remember.

Still being told "he's only a yearling there's still time" (or something like that - I'm not on my computer to check the exact wording on the e-mail) that's what I'm doing. I was told that mini's drop late and not to worry". So that's what I'm doing okay - trying to do.

I'm new to mini's but not to horses.

The breeders say they'd be concerned if a newborn didn't have both at birth..as they never said my horse was one of these that would worry then I presume he had both - then all I can do is sit and wait. Gonna be hard next spring if things dont change as I want to breed him.

gonna throw a party when he drops the second YAHOOOOO< YIPEEEEE...till then...

waiting and feeling daily

(poor little horse hehehhee)

P.S. this horse is PRFECT in every other way, perfect conformation. Awesome bloodlines, gorgeous head, small muzzle, small ears, large eyes, perfect bite, perfect legs, rare color (possibly brindle) All I can do is sit and wait. I didn't get him as a gelding so I have nothing to do but wait (and worry)

fantastic movement (only 30 inches at a year and a half old) great disposition.

 

[miniwhinny]

Two interesting facts discovered during my research on crypts....

1) A recent study conducted for UC Davis found there is no genetic link to crypts. Horses bred with only one testicle don't throw more crypts than horses with two testicles (that surprised me too but the vet who told me this was partners in Southern Oregon with a vet involved in this study)

2) I came to mini's from having old Spanish bloodline horses. Many Spanish mustangs drop late (3 years is okay) and I bred a Spanish mare to a Sorraia stallion ( Portuguese). He only had one testicle as a two year old...was nearly gelded but dropped the second as a 3 year old. The colt I produced had both at birth. As the mini's have a lot of Celtic Iberian blood in them maybe this is a cause. In the USA we have Fallabella blood which is old Spanish...like the Leopard pattern which is a Spanish color.

Who knows,,all I can do is cling to straws as IMO my colt is one of the finest horses I've ever seen.

 

[capall beag]

OK I am missing something!!!!!

I do not understand why this is not considered a problem?

One of the posts states that a colt dropping as late as 3 is considered normal BUT what if he doesn't??

If I buy a 5 month old colt as a future herd sire, I raise him and put lots of time, effort and money into him and I have to wiat for 2 1/2 years to know if he will be suitable??? How would any buyer find that ok??

The other scenario, I buy a little weanling colt to keep as a pet. I want to geld him BUT he only has one testicle. Do I have to wait up to 3 years to geld him. I have seen many threads about encouraging people to geld most colts and keep only the best as stallions and about how young studs left ungelded can be a handful. Well it would seem to me accepting 'late bloomers' is not good because it means more colts will be left intact.

Let me explain. In Maine this Spring my frined was quoted $1,500 to geld a 9 month old colt who only had one testicle down. She could not afford it and so she gave the little colt away. No one would buy him. He was a nice little colt but nothing exceptional. He is now destined to live a life as a frustrated stallion living alone or someone will splurge and spend the money, not probable, or he will be used for breeding just because he can, and the cycle will continue.. To me this is a horrible life for this little colt and he is deemed worthless or "a freebie" because of his lack of a testicle.

I do not think the average person who buys a sweet little colt that they want to geld and keep as a pet or to show locally or whatever expects to pay $1,500 to geld him.

Surely, accepting this late dropping as 'normal' and perfectly acceptable is not improving the breed.

Certainly, with the huge cost of surgery in the northeast I cannot imainge anyone would not be very disappointed to discover their little colt was a 'late bloomer'. I for one, could not afford to take the risk on buying a colt that might one day be a 'normal' stallion or a colt that could cost me $1,500 to geld.

I guess I am just confused why this would be accepted as normal and what contract/guarantee a seller would give when selling a colt that was not dropped.

 

[Annetta]

Well, personally, if I have a problem with waiting until the colt is at least 2 to know if both are going to drop so that he can be gelded....or if I want a guarantee that the colt will be breeding sound by a specific age--if both testicles aren't there when I go to look at the colt, I won't buy him.

I happen to believe that most will drop by the time the colt is 2 years old. Therefore, if I choose to buy a colt that doesn't have both at time of purchase, I wait it out. I bought one colt that was 3 months old--at that point I don't know if he had both or not, as he was wild & I wasn't close enough to him to check. I know for a fact that the breeder never checked & so couldn't say one way or the other if both were there at birth or not. This particular colt didn't have any down until he was a full 2 years old--at that time 1 appeared, and a few weeks later the 2nd appeared. Then I gelded him. For me waiting it out wasn't a problem. I had no intention of putting him through extensive surgery, nor was I planning on paying extra, I'd have simply waited, until he was 3 if I had to.

While Minis may take longer to drop than big horses, I believe the percentage of true cryptorchidism is very low--if the testicle is "there" and will come down given time, I don't consider that a true crypt. A true crypt will never drop, because the missing testicle is above the inguinal ring & cannot come down once the ring constricts.

I also believe that most foals have both descended at birth--as Rabbitsfizz always says, I'd be concerned if a foal was missing one or both at birth--but if one or both disappear for awhile after that, as long as they make an appearance by the time the colt is 18 months old I'm not concerned when it comes to breeding. My colts have always had them down by that age, though in a couple cases one was much larger than the other--the 2nd caught up in size by the time the horses were 2 years old. I haven't noticed that either stallion passes this trait on to his foals--the colts off these stallions have had 2 down at birth & two equal size ones right on through to their first year when they were gelded.

But, if you don't want to take the chance & wait it out, either to geld or to decide if the horse will work for breeding, then don't take the chance. Pass the colt over & look for one that's fully descended already. {shrugs} That's the best guarantee there is. Don't buy knowing the facts then complain about it afterwards. As far as I'm concerned there are far too many demands for restitution in the Miniature breed--so many people don't ask enough questions or check the horse out thoroughly enough, they just buy & then squawk about what they didn't get.