lucky lodge
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has any one got any question you would like me to ask the vet
saffires foaling thread
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has any one got any question you would like me to ask the vet
oh what a special story..and what a stunner she turned out to be
i notice you have a shangrila my stallion is by shangrila bw warrior
Oh she isn't one of mine, I wish! She's owned by Special's breeder. Lovely people who will just dig in and do whatever it takes and Mia certainly rewarded them for it! I met her when I was looking at Special and she's grown into this gutsy and sassy little filly so she must of had quite the fight in her to pull through her rough start.
But I know they never mind charing her story and it might give you some hope
Eagle
Well-Known Member
Thank you Diane. I am still sending my prayers and thoughts
I agree with Diane as far as vet questions go - particularly as to their help in monitoring Saffire (it did sound from what you said after your visit to the vet, as though they had just sort of made up their minds that it was a 50/50 chance for the foal and that was that) they need to understand that this foal is extremely precious to you and not dismiss it as 'just one of those things that happens'!
Also make sure that a vet will come to you IMMEDIATELY as soon as Saffire STARTS her labour, tell them that you expect to get a live foal from Saffire so they had better be there!
Not sure about Regumate - as I understand it folk use it to help keep a mare pregnant when she still has a way to go. As Saffire is already in a position to have a viable foal, surely you need to hope that she will give birth sooner rather than later if the placenta is already separating??? Do external scans work on horses? If so would it be possible to see the position of the foal - maybe it is already turned and ready to come, in which case perhaps it would be good to induce Saffire now?
Good luck - hope the vet has some good answers for you - make them understand that this is really important to you.
Also make sure that a vet will come to you IMMEDIATELY as soon as Saffire STARTS her labour, tell them that you expect to get a live foal from Saffire so they had better be there!
Not sure about Regumate - as I understand it folk use it to help keep a mare pregnant when she still has a way to go. As Saffire is already in a position to have a viable foal, surely you need to hope that she will give birth sooner rather than later if the placenta is already separating??? Do external scans work on horses? If so would it be possible to see the position of the foal - maybe it is already turned and ready to come, in which case perhaps it would be good to induce Saffire now?
Good luck - hope the vet has some good answers for you - make them understand that this is really important to you.
Eagle
Well-Known Member
Anna I found this on the web:
A horse foetus, unlike many other species, matures in the final 5-7 days of pregnancy, and if removed from the mare before this time will usually die. In mares with placentitis, the foal will often respond by maturing more quickly as a result of the stress. Stressed foals can be born early and survive with minimal care, if the infection develops slowly and premature delivery can be delayed. Therefore, if infected mares can be identified early, and treated to delay delivery, the chances of foal survival can be improved and the need for intensive hospitalization minimised.
So maybe Regumate would be a good idea? I have no experience with horses so I am not much help.
I did have a problem with Matteo as I suffered from detachment of the placenta at 4 months and I was in hospital for several weeks with antibiotics and what I presume was an equivalent of Regumate. After about a month all settled down and he was born 10 days late perfectly healthy and very handsome if I may say so
A horse foetus, unlike many other species, matures in the final 5-7 days of pregnancy, and if removed from the mare before this time will usually die. In mares with placentitis, the foal will often respond by maturing more quickly as a result of the stress. Stressed foals can be born early and survive with minimal care, if the infection develops slowly and premature delivery can be delayed. Therefore, if infected mares can be identified early, and treated to delay delivery, the chances of foal survival can be improved and the need for intensive hospitalization minimised.
So maybe Regumate would be a good idea? I have no experience with horses so I am not much help.
I did have a problem with Matteo as I suffered from detachment of the placenta at 4 months and I was in hospital for several weeks with antibiotics and what I presume was an equivalent of Regumate. After about a month all settled down and he was born 10 days late perfectly healthy and very handsome if I may say so
lucky lodge
Well-Known Member
compear to $265 call out fee this vet is only $165 and much closer and she now whats going on ...so she ready to
go...the vet that did the ulrasound said the foal was not in foalling position yet....so hang in there saffire
Sounds as though you have a good vet much closer now jenny - that's great. Thanks for the news about the ultra sound positioning of the foal, that is the difficulty of the internet - it is often difficult to get the whole picture from what is posted.
(but WOW I just cannot believe the cost of those call out fees, that is beyond a joke!!)
And Renee, thanks for that info, I can understand what the 'medic's' are saying and anyway my opinions come from either experience (which I dont have in this case) or from my strange way of thinking laterally a lot of the time. LOL!!
But I do so disagree that a foal only 'matures' in the last few days of pregnancy and will probably die if born earlier??? How come is it considered perfectly normal for a mare to foal two weeks before her due date, or how come so many of us have foals born early yet perfectly formed in every way except perhaps for actual body weight? (not getting at you here of course, I just love challenging the medical profession to instigate discussions!)
I think those vets writing that info seem to have shot themselves in the foot by then saying that with a separating of the placenta the foal usually speeds up its maturity through stress - so we therefore have a foal who may be mature enough to survive if the mare is well within her possible foaling dates!! What bothers me is the degree of separation, in that can they tell how much? Surely the danger is that with too much separation the foal is being compromised by lack of oxygen/nourishment and would therefore be better out of the mare than left inside under dangerous survival circumstances?? Hope I'm not sounding too muddled now!
In your circumstances, you were only 4 months pregnant, which probably meant that yes you were given a similar drug to regumate - good job too for Matteo's well being (and for all those female hearts that are going to be broken in the future.
)
(but WOW I just cannot believe the cost of those call out fees, that is beyond a joke!!)
And Renee, thanks for that info, I can understand what the 'medic's' are saying and anyway my opinions come from either experience (which I dont have in this case) or from my strange way of thinking laterally a lot of the time. LOL!!
But I do so disagree that a foal only 'matures' in the last few days of pregnancy and will probably die if born earlier??? How come is it considered perfectly normal for a mare to foal two weeks before her due date, or how come so many of us have foals born early yet perfectly formed in every way except perhaps for actual body weight? (not getting at you here of course, I just love challenging the medical profession to instigate discussions!)
I think those vets writing that info seem to have shot themselves in the foot by then saying that with a separating of the placenta the foal usually speeds up its maturity through stress - so we therefore have a foal who may be mature enough to survive if the mare is well within her possible foaling dates!! What bothers me is the degree of separation, in that can they tell how much? Surely the danger is that with too much separation the foal is being compromised by lack of oxygen/nourishment and would therefore be better out of the mare than left inside under dangerous survival circumstances?? Hope I'm not sounding too muddled now!
In your circumstances, you were only 4 months pregnant, which probably meant that yes you were given a similar drug to regumate - good job too for Matteo's well being (and for all those female hearts that are going to be broken in the future.
I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with that bit Renee put up, my brain wants to chew on it some more
But I've always felt it is a mistake to assume that what we write down as due date is the right date for the mare. Some deliver at 300 days with perfectly healthy and obviously not premmie foals so for them they carried to term even if it wasn't to our date.
I agree with you there Bree - a lot of mares seem to have their own 'carrying to term' dates. LOL!!
But last year when we moved our foaling mares to Cathy's farm to foal, we moved them 5 weeks before their 'due' dates (by our covering dates) and only a very slow journey 6 miles down the road. Chapella foaled a day and a half later with only a half filled bag, and her filly was perfectly formed/normal, just small skinny and a bit weak - most certainly a premmie birth but survived with no problem. Then Narcotics foaled two days after this and lost her foal - unexpected (little bag to see) mid morning birth in the field, and lost a perfectly formed filly due to not getting out of the bag. The third mare to foal, Mummy mare, did manage to carry her foal to her due date and foaled quite normally with Cathy in attendance.
So I still say that foals are able to be born 'early' and are not likely to die unless carried to within 5-7 days of their due date (or the mare's idea of HER due date).
Great discussion - any thoughts from other posters?
But last year when we moved our foaling mares to Cathy's farm to foal, we moved them 5 weeks before their 'due' dates (by our covering dates) and only a very slow journey 6 miles down the road. Chapella foaled a day and a half later with only a half filled bag, and her filly was perfectly formed/normal, just small skinny and a bit weak - most certainly a premmie birth but survived with no problem. Then Narcotics foaled two days after this and lost her foal - unexpected (little bag to see) mid morning birth in the field, and lost a perfectly formed filly due to not getting out of the bag. The third mare to foal, Mummy mare, did manage to carry her foal to her due date and foaled quite normally with Cathy in attendance.
So I still say that foals are able to be born 'early' and are not likely to die unless carried to within 5-7 days of their due date (or the mare's idea of HER due date).
Great discussion - any thoughts from other posters?
Eagle
Well-Known Member
hhmmmm yes, great discussion. I think your girls pretty much proved that they can foal premature and survive but perhaps it isn't a perfect situation. Maybe your 2 girls were going to foal early and your trailer ride "helped" them. Who knows
I agree with Bree when she says that each mare has her own foaling date which can alter from foal to foal ( a mare that foaled early this year will not necessarily foal early next year) just look at Fire Fly, she foaled at 305 days last year now I think she is on about day 350
Maybe it is the foal that decides it's development and not the mare.
I was told but I don't know if it is true that: "The foal chooses the day and the mare chooses the hour"
Changing subjects slightly, there is one thing that I REALLY HATE since I have had minis and that is the vets attitude, they never seem to take me seriously when I call them for my chips, yet when I call the same vets for our show jumpers they shift there butts immediately or say "bring him in and I will have the stable prepared" Why do they seem to treat them like a total waste of money and who cares if you loose your mare or foal??
Sorry If I am being rude but I think that if one of my big girls was in the same situation as Saffire she would be in the clinic until the situation is under control or they would give me a whole list of things to give her and do to save mother and foal.
Climbing down now
I agree with Bree when she says that each mare has her own foaling date which can alter from foal to foal ( a mare that foaled early this year will not necessarily foal early next year) just look at Fire Fly, she foaled at 305 days last year now I think she is on about day 350
I was told but I don't know if it is true that: "The foal chooses the day and the mare chooses the hour"
Changing subjects slightly, there is one thing that I REALLY HATE since I have had minis and that is the vets attitude, they never seem to take me seriously when I call them for my chips, yet when I call the same vets for our show jumpers they shift there butts immediately or say "bring him in and I will have the stable prepared" Why do they seem to treat them like a total waste of money and who cares if you loose your mare or foal??
Sorry If I am being rude but I think that if one of my big girls was in the same situation as Saffire she would be in the clinic until the situation is under control or they would give me a whole list of things to give her and do to save mother and foal.
Climbing down now
lucky lodge
Well-Known Member
saffire seems to be doing ok normally she would be laying down for hours and havent seen her lay down at all
hoping the antibotics are working
oh and she seems more relaxed
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a mini dream come true
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Great news!!
:yeah Thank you for the update.
lucky lodge
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lucky lodge
Well-Known Member
iam so rapt saffire is acting a lot healther
Riverrose28
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I only read this last page, looks like she is coming around. Good luck, hope she continues to improve.
I'm glad you're seeing improvement!
"The foal chooses the day and the mare chooses the hour" and that is why when I see foaling signs I plead with the mare
:rofl
me: Rivain please wait for me to get back.
Rivain: suuuuurreee.........nup.
me: Twinky sweety not 2am this time, you know I hate 2am.
Twinkles: pfffft.
Actually this pleading thing doesn't seem to be working
"The foal chooses the day and the mare chooses the hour" and that is why when I see foaling signs I plead with the mare
me: Rivain please wait for me to get back.
Rivain: suuuuurreee.........nup.
me: Twinky sweety not 2am this time, you know I hate 2am.
Twinkles: pfffft.
Actually this pleading thing doesn't seem to be working
LOL! Bree - when do mares ever listen to what we say!
So glad to hear that Saffire is feeling better - great news.
Hang in there Saffire - just make sure that baby is getting all its nourishment and bring it successfully into the world in the next week or so.
So glad to hear that Saffire is feeling better - great news.
Hang in there Saffire - just make sure that baby is getting all its nourishment and bring it successfully into the world in the next week or so.
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lucky lodge
Well-Known Member
Riverrose28
Well-Known Member
Thought I would respond here instead of the other thread, as I responded before about my mare with the red bag delivering at 305 days. The vet did an external ultra sound, and then inserted a cardboard pipe into the vaginal canal to see if she was effacing. Her cervix was softening, so she told me to watch her carefully. this was several years ago and no regumate was admistered. It was indead a red bag delivery and if I wasn't present the foal would have died. all turned out OK but when the foal was born the mares bag wasn't as big as normal and the since the foal was only 305 dys along he didn't have any body fat, but could stand and nurse and within a couple of days was just as thrifty as any foal. the mare produced plenty of milk after delivery and all was fine. Hope you have the same good outcome. Sorry you feel like some others slapped you in the face. Forgive them, as they are only concerned for your horse welfare and mean no harm to you.
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I can see how the situation on the other thread happened. Over here we get very used to our daily talks and we know how the mares are progressing. We get to know things like issues with vets and inexperience. Over there they don't know all of that so can only judge by what they can see.
I think I'm just used to forums being rough at times, especially on topics involving an emergency.
FWIW I belive it is called regumate over here as well, I know someone whose mare has to have it to carry a foal to term.
I think I'm just used to forums being rough at times, especially on topics involving an emergency.
FWIW I belive it is called regumate over here as well, I know someone whose mare has to have it to carry a foal to term.
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