Selling a couple minis-Question about registration papers.

[Chelley]

Hello, I am selling a couple of unregistered minis to someone. However, the unregistered mare is bred to my AMHA/AMHR registered stallion. They want copies of his papers for records for bloodline info, which seems logical...is there any reason I would NOT want to give someone a copy of his papers? Probably just being paranoid, but just wanted to make sure it would be okay to give someone a copy before I did it. (Obviously pretty new at this!) Thanks!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I can't think of any issues that could arise but to be safe I would be sure to mark the papers as " Unofficial Copy Only" or something of that sort. Maybe contact the registry office and ask them they might have some insight as well.

 

[StacyRz]

If you don't feel comfortable, go with your instinct.

I have asked for permission to use pictures of sire/dam for my records, but I can't imagine ever asking for a copy of papers for a horse I don't own. There are websites where you can see pedigrees. Maybe she can look him up there and just bookmark it in her computer.

Maybe along with Unofficial copy, you can black out the registration numbers as well as X out the buyer/seller section.

(IF you decide to give her a copy)

I don't know that just seems weird to me. I wouldn't do it myself.

stacy

 

[Chelley]

The request may be completely innocent and I hate to impune bad motives on people, but just want to be safe and not take a chance. If I give copies I will mark that it is for the purpose of record of lineage. Thanks!!

 

[StacyRz]

You know, I was just thinking...I believe there are free pedigree generators. You could fill it out yourself (for the foal) and give that to her. You don't have to put your stud's, or his parent's/grandparent's registration numbers on there.

The blank generators are generic, but she will still have a copy of her foal's pedigree.

 

[Flyin G Farm]

You could always just print out his pedigree from the online studbook...then she'll have his whole pedigree and you won't have to give her a copy of his actual papers.

Tracy

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I wouldn't give copies of any of my horses official documents to anyone.

Far too many strange people out there.

But that is probably not what they meant- they probably meant they wanted his pedigree- and just said "papers" meaning just that.

So, probably just a simple misunderstanding.

 

[ohmt]

I put everything on allbreedpedigree.com and send a link. It goes back many more generations than registration papers and I use the free version so win win! There's another pedigree generator that you can fill out and print but I can not remember the website. Will try to find it for you-it's handy to have.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I dont mind at all making copies of my stallions papers, as a matter of fact, I am quite proud of his heritage, and it also shows clearly on his papers that he is DNA tested and perm reg. , They are not legal documents so all they really show is who they are and what registry they belong to, so no i do not have a problem giving copies to anyone. If any of you need copies of papers on any of my horses feel free to ask anytime!

 

[ruffian]

I dont mind at all making copies of my stallions papers, as a matter of fact, I am quite proud of his heritage, and it also shows clearly on his papers that he is DNA tested and perm reg. , They are not legal documents so all they really show is who they are and what registry they belong to, so no i do not have a problem giving copies to anyone. If any of you need copies of papers on any of my horses feel free to ask anytime!

I agree with this - but I would just give her a black/white copy of the front of the papers.

 

[Minimor]

Personally I see no harm in giving out a copy of a stallion’s papers. I guess I just don’t see what anyone could actually do with them—even if someone stole the horse, they would need the original papers in order to transfer that horse into their own name, not to mention the fact that they would need a signed transfer before they could get the horse put into their name…

In Morgans it was a common thing to give someone a copy of a horse’s papers. I suppose now, of course, people are more inclined to e-mail the info in some other form, but when we were active in the breed we didn’t have e-mail—actually at that time most people didn’t have e-mail! So, if you called someone to ask about a horse they had for sale, they would mail photos and a copy of the registration papers to you. Likewise if you contacted someone about breeding a mare to their stallion they were very likely to mail a copy of the stallion’s registration papers to you along with the stallion service contract. Even now I have a stack of photocopies of registration papers of other people’s horses in my file box. When I received a copy of papers for whatever reason I would simply add it to my file as an extra reference.

We’ve been involved with registered horses since 1966 and I have never yet heard of anyone suffering any sort of a loss as a result of giving a copy of a horse’s registration papers to someone.

Frankly I find it a bit sad that this mare owner asks for a copy of the stallion's papers--almostly certainly just because she's happy to have foals that are sired by a registered stallion even if those foals cannot be registered and she would like to have a copy of the sire's breeding just to be able to say this is the stallion that sired these babies--and the stallion owner is actually suspicious that she might try to use those papers for something shady. Worse, that she might be inclined to steal the stallion and then make use of the photocopy of the papers? I do hope this person isn't likely to come on LB and see this topic!

 

[Chelley]

"Frankly I find it a bit sad that this mare owner asks for a copy of the stallion's papers--almostly certainly just because she's happy to have foals that are sired by a registered stallion even if those foals cannot be registered and she would like to have a copy of the sire's breeding just to be able to say this is the stallion that sired these babies--and the stallion owner is actually suspicious that she might try to use those papers for something shady. Worse, that she might be inclined to steal the stallion and then make use of the photocopy of the papers? I do hope this person isn't likely to come on LB and see this topic!"

The fact that you find this sad shows that fortunately you must be one of the few people in this world that have yet to be wronged by someone. I did state I may be being paranoid and I also said that I am inexperienced and new at this, that is why I appreciate this forum to get the opinions of those that have more experience than I do. I appreciate all of the previous replies trying to give helpful advice regarding my question. At this point I have resolved the matter, again by someone on here interested in helping, so I have the stallion's complete pedigree to give to the buyer. And if the purchaser is on here and unfortunately sees this, I am sorry, but there were some odd things that happend in the course of this transaction that just seemed weird to me. Thanks to all for your kind help!

 

[Farina]

Frankly I find it a bit sad that this mare owner asks for a copy of the stallion's papers--almostly certainly just because she's happy to have foals that are sired by a registered stallion even if those foals cannot be registered and she would like to have a copy of the sire's breeding just to be able to say this is the stallion that sired these babies--and the stallion owner is actually suspicious that she might try to use those papers for something shady. Worse, that she might be inclined to steal the stallion and then make use of the photocopy of the papers? I do hope this person isn't likely to come on LB and see this topic!

I would think that this is what she are planing: Registering the foal. Why shouldn't it be possible to register the foal?

And I wouldn't see any harm in this either.

 

[minimomNC]

She can't register the foal because the mare isn't registered. Right or wrong, copy of the papers or not, if the buyer wanted the copy just to have the pedigree then sending her the entire pedigree from the online studbook is much better than a copy of the papers that only has two generations. Also with the full pedigree it comes complete with the information that would be of interest to the buyer, the colors and heights that are listed for each horse. As for being sad to even question this, there is to much bad going on today to not at least wonder. I think this is the best solution all the way around.

 

[Sue_C.]

I cannot see the harm in a copy of the papers either.

Many shows we attend require a copy of the horse's papers, so it isn't like they are secreted away somewhere. and, as stated, they are no good to someone wanting to "abuse" them, without signed transfers etc...

 

[Jill]

If you feel comfortable breeding an unregistered mare to your registered stallion and then selling her, why would you not want to give a copy of the stallion's papers? What is it you think could go wrong by releasing a copy of registration papers? I think the "flip side" of not giving the buyer the copies that have been requested is that the buyer may decide to just buy some horses with registration papers of their own.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

If you feel comfortable breeding an unregistered mare to your registered stallion and then selling her, why would you not want to give a copy of the stallion's papers? What is it you think could go wrong by releasing a copy of registration papers? I think the "flip side" of not giving the buyer the copies that have been requested is that the buyer may decide to just buy some horses with registration papers of their own.

Thought provoking!!! or ....just maybe.......perhaps.......i just had an epiphany!!!!! Maybe since you thought those horses were nice enough to breed to your outstanding registered stallion, those buyers considered hard shipping the mares into the registry and have some really nice foals of there own!!!!! And i am sure that they are nice mares or you would have never bred them, and the foals would be a compliment to your stallion! And you as a responsible stallion owner would gladly welcome a couple of quality foals reflecting on his prodigy report! make sure you add them to your stallion report as "pending registration" i did this last year and it worked perfect!

 

[Chelley]

He is a very nice, pretty little stud and she is a really nice mare who I had purchased from another breeder that was using her in her breeding program. We have just decided that breeding them is not for us and are keeping a couple for "pets", but selling the rest. I felt like I was asking a simple question because I am newer and not extremely familiar with how legal the papers are or what could happen if I were to just give them out to someone. Apparently from the marjority of comments on here it is not a big deal. However, I did not know that and that is why I asked. I think some people forget that everyone has to start somewhere when you are learning and trying something new and that we are not all born experts...I do appreciate the input and have worked it out with a full pedigree for them.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

That is what the forum is for! to run stuff by other people and get a new perspective that you may not have thought about, always good to get ideas and try to see how other people look at things, and i hope you and everyone else keep doing it! i know i will keep asking questions, and getting new outlooks and ideas, that way i will never be in a "box" and limited to just my simple view, but can see things from many angles, this is why i love this forum, and appreciate all the people that take time to write!