Studding out a Stallion

[Field-of-Dreams]

In 12 years of Minis I think we have bred six outside mares:

Two mares owned by the sweetest old man: one mare didn't catch that year, the other foaled a pretty filly- that never got out of the sac. We rebred for free. We offered to foal out his mares, at first he said no, then got scared and we did deliver the foals. Fortunately. Same mare foaled, I was there or she wouldn't have gotten out of the sac again. Gorgeous pinto filly (who he named after me... *blush*) and the other mare was textbook.

Friend's mare: covered multiple times- either never took or absorbed. Didn't rebreed, her choice.

Contacted by outside person: mare was five, had been an "only child" since 4 months old. She was at our place five weeks and NEVER caught her cycling. We teased her every day, she would flirt outside the fence but the moment we brought the stallion out she'd try to kill him. Didn't matter which stallion, we teased her with all of them. No manners, almost impossible to handle. Sent her home unbred.

Friend's mare: here for four YEARS, bred her every spring- either caught and aborted or never caught at all. Friend finally sold her as open.

Friend's mare: Bred last summer, due any day now.

So, out if six (eight if you count the rebred mares) we had two live foals and one hopefully on it's way. IMHO, it's way too much work for way little money. And like everyone else said, most people have their own stallion anyway.

 

[Charlotte]

Used to do it with big horses and TRIED it with minis and I agree 100% with Jane! Unless you can get a fee of over $1,000 and have all of your ducks in a row it just plain isn't worth it.

Charlotte

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Hello...

I highly suggest working with a professional who breeds stallions before deciding to stand (the more common term for "studding out") a stallion to the public. That way you can understand the subtleties of stallion handling, breeding, and methods. I understand that you are a youth, which is fine, but you are at a great age to mentor from someone and take the time to learn rather than just jump in and be disappointed or injured. Stallions of ALL sizes deserve to be handled correctly... just because minis are pretty easy doesn't mean they should get different respect or handling.

There is a lot to *proper* reproduction in horses between two parties.

Above, you say that you want your stallion's babies to be more than just backyard pets. Well, with stallions being able to spread their genes to many foals per year, it is important for the stallion HIMSELF to be more than "just a backyard pet." Many, MANY breeding farms spend THOUSANDS of dollars showing and promoting their stallions at the National level. Although promotion certainly does NOT ensure that a stallion will outproduce himself, it DOES allow the breeder to compare their stock to others as some degree of measure. It gives another dimension to marketing (other exhibitors see the stallion at shows, mare owners want to introduce "what's winning" into their own herd, it is easier to market foals that are "out of a winning stallion", etc.)

I GENERALLY (there are always exceptions) believe that backyard pet x backyard pet = backyard pet and because this is NOT your vision, you are not setting yourself up for success.

Again, I would highly suggest you find a mentor in your area and take the time to learn, rather than just ask some questions on a public forum that cannot be answered without justice. There are entire books written on these subjects!

There are always exceptions to everything though. Maybe you will take your little stallion to local AMHA shows and he will stand undefeated in every Grand class he goes in!

I have a stallion myself, I have spent three years so far dragging him to shows and I'm still not certain he will remain a stallion or ever sire any foals. I think he's nice, but I'm not barn blind, either. And I hate to add up how much I've spent on him! But I believe deeply in ethical breeding, which means ONLY breeding something that has proved itself in one way or another. Just being "well bred, homozygous for some color, and conformationally put together okay" does not cut it for me.

Good luck to you,

Andrea

all my horses are shown, and he won't be an exception

in fact, his first show is june 26th. as for a mentor, i would love to do that and am open to that, but as far as i know no one in my area is willing to do that

 

[SampleMM]

Since you are a youth, how could a mare owner enter into a breeding contract? The answer is they couldn't because a youth cannot enter into a legal contract with an adult.

Now, let me tell you a true story. For over ten years, I worked, and boarded at a big Quarter Horse farm where they stood two stallions. Fast forward ten years, I called the owner of the farm who also happens to be a friend and asked if I could breed my mare to her Two Eyed Jack son. We agreed on a price and since she was wintering in Florida she would have her son come over and breed my mare. My mare was in a standing heat and had been bred several times with absolutely no problems. Well, my mare ended up kicking the stallion and breaking his leg. A vet was called and he refused to put the stallion down (his crazy wife didn't believe in putting any animal down). So, the poor stallion which was in shock, suffered all night long and died in the morning. To this day, I feel guilt for what my mare did. I can't imagine a youth doing this. It's hard enough when you are an adult.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Since you are a youth, how could a mare owner enter into a breeding contract? The answer is they couldn't because a youth cannot enter into a legal contract with an adult.

Now, let me tell you a true story. For over ten years, I worked, and boarded at a big Quarter Horse farm where they stood two stallions. Fast forward ten years, I called the owner of the farm who also happens to be a friend and asked if I could breed my mare to her Two Eyed Jack son. We agreed on a price and since she was wintering in Florida she would have her son come over and breed my mare. My mare was in a standing heat and had been bred several times with absolutely no problems. Well, my mare ended up kicking the stallion and breaking his leg. A vet was called and he refused to put the stallion down (his crazy wife didn't believe in putting any animal down). So, the poor stallion which was in shock, suffered all night long and died in the morning. To this day, I feel guilt for what my mare did. I can't imagine a youth doing this. It's hard enough when you are an adult.

i do have parents, you know. my parents would make the contract and i would handle the breeding. and i would use breeding hobbles for the protection of the stallion. if the mare had been wearing hobbles that could've been prevented.

 

[ohmt]

Please be careful how you word things-when you ask for criticism and people's opinions, you must be able to handle it. A couple of your posts have been a bit snippy when all the other person was doing was giving you advice. If you want to do grown up things, you must act like a grown up first.

I say this wholeheartedly though you may not think so. The downside to not being able to express myself in person!

Good job for asking questions; knowledge is the key to success. My opinion is that you should show your boy as much as possible for a couple of years. Then, buy your own mare and see what the resulting foal is like. If you like what he produces, reconsider standing him at stud but remember what everyone else has said. If not, start over. My family has been breeding minis for over 20 years and we have had MANY stallions who were gorgeous, but didn't produce gorgeous. Everything is trial and error, especially when you start with an unproven stallion.

I wish you lots of luck!

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Please be careful how you word things-when you ask for criticism and people's opinions, you must be able to handle it. A couple of your posts have been a bit snippy when all the other person was doing was giving you advice. If you want to do grown up things, you must act like a grown up first.

I say this wholeheartedly though you may not think so. The downside to not being able to express myself in person!

Good job for asking questions; knowledge is the key to success. My opinion is that you should show your boy as much as possible for a couple of years. Then, buy your own mare and see what the resulting foal is like. If you like what he produces, reconsider standing him at stud but remember what everyone else has said. If not, start over. My family has been breeding minis for over 20 years and we have had MANY stallions who were gorgeous, but didn't produce gorgeous. Everything is trial and error, especially when you start with an unproven stallion.

I wish you lots of luck!

well i dont enjoy being bashed for asking questions, which seems to happen alot on here!

thanks for your input on standing my stud!

 

[SampleMM]

I'm sorry. I thought you were trying to ascertain information about standing a stallion. My point was that you are too young to be standing a stallion. Are your parents experienced horse people? Perhaps they are and that would be a real benefit to you. However, I would never ask my parents to take on this type of liability. They will need to purchase insurance which isn't cheap and if something goes wrong, your parents could find themselves in a middle of a lawsuit.

I also suggest you reread your comment to me. It's kind of sad you would even say that.

I was trying to share a piece of my life in order to help you.

BTW, you are incorrect about this accident being avoidable as the farm manager fell down on ice and the mare got out of his hands and ran into the arena where the stallion was and she kicked him. End of story!

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

I'm sorry. I thought you were trying to ascertain information about standing a stallion. My point was that you are too young to be standing a stallion. Are your parents experienced horse people? Perhaps they are and that would be a real benefit to you. However, I would never ask my parents to take on this type of liability. They will need to purchase insurance which isn't cheap and if something goes wrong, your parents could find themselves in a middle of a lawsuit.

I also suggest you reread your comment to me. It's kind of sad you would even say that.

I was trying to share a piece of my life in order to help you.

BTW, you are incorrect about this accident being avoidable as the farm manager fell down on ice and the mare got out of his hands and ran into the arena where the stallion was and she kicked him. End of story!

my parents are draft horse people, not mini people. they think minis are like dogs. if you would have read previous posts you would see that i said i decided not to stand my stud because i dont want him to get hurt. how is it sad that i state the truth? many people on this forum have stated the truth to me not caring if my feelings were hurt or not, so why should i care?

ETA: i'm also soo sick of being seen as inadequet and inexperianced because i'm a youth. i've been around horses since i was born, thats 15(almost 16) years! i AM NOT an amatuer when it comes to horses(studs included!), only when it comes to breeding because my family was never into breeding, but i do know the basics, so i would appreciate it if i would be treated less like a person that saw a pretty pony in a feild and decided to buy one, and more of the intermediate horse person that i am!!!

 

[ruffian]

"my parents are draft horse people, not mini people. they think minis are like dogs. if you would have read previous posts you would see that i said i decided not to stand my stud because i dont want him to get hurt. how is it sad that i state the truth? many people on this forum have stated the truth to me not caring if my feelings were hurt or not, so why should i care? "

If you ask for opinions, suggestions, or comments, you must be able to accept what is provided. You asked what you should charge. People were nice enough to give you the benefit of their extensive experience and you came out with "victim". You started out well asking for opinions, but you can't be upset or hurt when people give them.

"ETA: i'm also soo sick of being seen as inadequet and inexperianced because i'm a youth. i've been around horses since i was born, thats 15(almost 16) years! i AM NOT an amatuer when it comes to horses(studs included!), only when it comes to breeding because my family was never into breeding. "

BREEDING is a whole different ball game than just being around intact stallions in a non-breeding situation. Just because miniature studs are small doesn't mean they don't have a full dose of testosterone and will use it. I have scars from being kicked or bit or pushed by a breeding stallion when a mare comes into season. And I AM experienced - over 30+ years - There are still areas when I AM an amateur. and am still learning from folks on this forum.

When I ask a question, and I do ask questions, I expect and accept opinions of others here.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

"my parents are draft horse people, not mini people. they think minis are like dogs. if you would have read previous posts you would see that i said i decided not to stand my stud because i dont want him to get hurt. how is it sad that i state the truth? many people on this forum have stated the truth to me not caring if my feelings were hurt or not, so why should i care? "

If you ask for opinions, suggestions, or comments, you must be able to accept what is provided. You asked what you should charge. People were nice enough to give you the benefit of their extensive experience and you came out with "victim". You started out well asking for opinions, but you can't be upset or hurt when people give them.

"ETA: i'm also soo sick of being seen as inadequet and inexperianced because i'm a youth. i've been around horses since i was born, thats 15(almost 16) years! i AM NOT an amatuer when it comes to horses(studs included!), only when it comes to breeding because my family was never into breeding. "

BREEDING is a whole different ball game than just being around intact stallions in a non-breeding situation. Just because miniature studs are small doesn't mean they don't have a full dose of testosterone and will use it. I have scars from being kicked or bit or pushed by a breeding stallion when a mare comes into season. And I AM experienced - over 30+ years - There are still areas when I AM an amateur. and am still learning from folks on this forum.

When I ask a question, and I do ask questions, I expect and accept opinions of others here.

opinions can be given without hazing or rudeness. you have scars from studs? your lucky, i got a concussion from a 2yr old colt i had! he nearly killed me, i was 5 or 6! i'm not stupid ok! I KNOW WHAT STUDS CAN DO!!! i also know how difficult breeding is, but the second i ask ANYTHING on here about breeding my mare next year i get a bunch of people freaking out on me and accusing me of not loving or caring about my mare! yeah, that will SOOO help me when foaling time comes around! and what about the other farms that breed their mares, does that make them cruel and heartless too?

 

[Holly at WhiteTailsMinis]

OKAY THATS IT! I CANT TAKE IT ANY LONGER.........................

First off, have you tried the youth forum????

"you have scars from studs? your lucky, i got a concussion from a 2yr old colt i had! he nearly killed me, i was 5 or 6! i'm not stupid ok! I KNOW WHAT STUDS CAN DO!!!"

Well someone is stupid. I dont even take my eyes off of my 8 year old when she is messing with he minis and they are NEVER WITH the stallions at this age. Let alone let my 3 year old handle one. They are just as unpredictable as any animal. You never know what is going to happen. Especially when you are handling a breeding age stallion.

Really............ IF YOU CANT TAKE THE HEAT, GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN!!!!!!!!!!!

You have come on here asking for ADULTS OPINIONS who have been doing this for umpteen years, and they give you their EXCELLENT answers and you cry about every little single thing they are telling you. So if you want to go and cry to your mommy and daddy please do so because I know I am just about sick of hearing you WHINE!

 

[wildoak]

Good job for asking lots of the right questions.

You do sound like you have some good horse experience, and that will serve you well. My daughter was raised with horses too and I would not have considered her a rank amateur in many respects. She was - and is - a good horsewoman. She did in fact help me at times with breeding in her teens but I would not have suggested it as a career at that point.

You have the benefit of probably hundreds of combined years of experience here on this board, and lots of people happy to share with you. You are an intelligent, fairly experienced horseperson from what I read between the lines and you have made the decision not to stand your stallion. My suggestion is that you let it stop there and not get sucked into bickering & smart aleck responses here, benefits no one and makes people reluctant to respond next time.

Good luck with your colt, hope he does well for you.

Jan

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

White tails you said it very well.

 

[Allure Ranch]

OMG amen.... High five.... Kudos.... I concur....

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

This has gotten so ugly for some reason.

There are other youths on this forum that are not so disrespectful.

Written words are always in jeapordy of being interpreted so many different ways and punctuation makes a huge difference too as people can't see your face or expression to know how you intend it.

With that said, if you watch your "tone" and punctuation you might get less feelings hurt.

People are trying to help thinking you were sincere in your questions. All of us learn so much from the experiences of others. While we hope we're learning new things sometimes we might find that we need improvement or we learn we've been doing something wrong - or maybe the responses aren't what we want to hear - - but they are opinions of others and if you don't want to learn from it or use it - thats your right - but why insult someone for giving you their responses when it was you that asked.

Rather than bashing back with all negatives - thank them for their support and sharing their ideas and things that work for them. Why reinvent the wheel when people are here to share the things that work? If you don't agree, just don't use it but keep the forum a happy and fun place to be.

It's hard to take someone serious after they post so many times about a new horse - always changing their mind on the horse - and I have been very respectful not to mention OUR dealings ..............

 

if you want to run with the big boys and not have your age be a factor then you must be alittle more curteous and respectful and act like the big boys.

 

[White Socks Miniature]

I think that you have some very valid questions and I have been very interested in what everyone has said in response to them. Why? because with animals, there is always learning to be done no matter what your experience level is, things are always changing, and it is great to have a large knowledge base and be able to pick and choose what works for you! I am a vet tech, and I can tell you right now that rarely ever do things go as per the text book. It is experience and continual learning that make you stronger, better, and more humble.

I think everyone here believes that your questions are with good intentions, however, they loose faith when you come around with your attitude. If you aren't willing to listen, and take advice graciously then dont ask.

"Its hard to move forward, If your always looking back." Keep your chin up, and keep working.

 

[Marty]

Hello Young Lady. I can appreciate some of your questions and your enthusiasm and even some of your frustration.

I have a suggestion for you:

Ask your parents if they would consider joining this forum. Since they are big horse people and realize you are into the minis, surely one of would come here and chime in on your behalf. Since they are ultimately responsible for you and your miniatures, I'm sure they would be open to learn more about them too, especially since you are already advertising on your website.

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[mydaddysjag]

I see on your webpage that you only have two mares, a two year old and a yearling, and I also see in a post of yours that you were planning to breed. I may have misunderstood, but you I think you said when you come back in foaling season asking for advice. I really hope your not talking about foaling season 2011. Both of your mares are too young to breed, so if you are dead set on breeding and wont listen to what anyone is telling you, please at least wait until they are a bit older, they are still babies themselves.

I also noticed that you have pictures of your two year old jumping in hand over the water tank, bitted up in an english bridle. While I dont see anything wrong with introducing a bridle at two, thats also very young to be having her jump, especially with a bit. Also, if you are going to jump her, please do it over something safer. Jumps are made to knock down if the horse bumps them, thats not the case with a rubbermade water tank. Also, if shes in an accident while jumping that tank, your really going to hurt her mouth since your using a bit not just a halter and lead.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Hello Young Lady. I can appreciate some of your questions and your enthusiasm and even some of your frustration.

I have a suggestion for you:

Ask your parents if they would consider joining this forum. Since they are big horse people and realize you are into the minis, surely one of would come here and chime in on your behalf. Since they are ultimately responsible for you and your miniatures, I'm sure they would be open to learn more about them too, especially since you are already advertising on your website.

Good luck and best wishes.

my parents have no respect for what i do, and wouldnt bother coming on this forum. they're not resonsible for my minis, i do everything. clean stalls, working, feeding, watering, breeding(eventually) etc. they think minis are like dogs and are so easy to handle.