Suggestions? Ideas? Help needed

[paintponylvr]

Reignmaker - I can't quite picture the hay feeder either...

Debby - what about putting your round bale on a base INSIDE a shelter (preferably one they can go completely around the bale, but with only 2 eqine maybe not as important) - wrapped by a panel or ??

Trust me, I'm still dealing with the best ways to feed round bales. I don't have any way to store and then move them (no tractor), so we've always just fed them where they were dropped. I now have 3 at a time dropped in each paddock (3 paddock/pastures) and 1 in the pen with 3 ponies. I currently have been "lazy" and haven't even been wrapping them - figuring on the sand - any waste is then spread out and incorporated into that sand. We actually have decent grass coming up around the outside of the two smaller paddocks that are fenced - the current "herd" of 5 mares, 2 foals and 1 stallion on that are eating less hay and enjoying the grass... MAYBE this fall, I will be able to spread more good fertilizer (chicken, rabbit, pony) and maybe some commercial nitrogen & lime as needed and plant winter rye in September. We shall see.

I can get the Aniprin Aspirin at our feed store! I was looking at that not too long ago...

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I'm having my first ever Regumate experience - let me tell you it is liquid gold! Had a crampy crabby hussy of a filly, that now is quiet, accepting, and simple - not to mention much more modest! She had always been funny about her hind end, but after 1 week of Regumate she's all better. She had cystic ovaries

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I could email a picture of the feeder to someone if they wanted it. Just drop me a note with your e-mail. Its pretty simple to make and all the pieces are easy to find. I have really appreciated the changes it has made for my horses and love not worrying in nasty weather about how much they need to stay warm. My husband is thinking we should make it accessible from both ends so the lower horses never have to wait and I am considering that for next winter for sure. Thinking about making one side gated to close it off again if it seems too much.

 

[AngC]

...

She is clearly suffering tummy pain, has in the past had issues when she is ovulating but not in the last 3 or 4 years. I have been putting them on grass for up to an hour each day for some time now but yesterday they were out longer (about 2 hours) and on longer grass so it could be that rather than ovulating.

...

I haven't had time to read much here lately, but this one drew my interest. We had the vet out for our Baby (filly, who will be 4 years old at end of this May.) Baby wasn't acting "right."

Nothing as dramatic as you describe. But the husband and I had agreed (prior to this) that if any horsey is acting odd, get the vet out. Baby's temperature was a smidge high, and they pressed their fingers on her gums and said she was dehydrated. I was so frazzled, that I don't know exactly what the vet did. He gave a shot in her neck vein (banamine maybe???) and pumped 1.5 gallons of water into her tummy through her nose (which gave her a nose bleed.) And looking at my receipt, apparently gave her something called "Resorb" (banamine is on the receipt, is Banamine administered by shot in the neck?) {{{geez, I'm dumb!!}}

The reason your post drew my attention, though, is because you're in a similar climate and you were/are acclimating to pasture grass. Our two girls are contained and we've been working up to the grass. We started several months ago at 5 minutes per day on halter. We had worked up to nearly 2 hours per day. So I was just wondering whether anyone else in this area of the country has observed ill effects from grazing.

 

[paintponylvr]

AngC - you might want to call your vet back and ask ?s when you are less frazzled. My usual "book" below...

!

Usually dehydration and grass issues are very separate issues. Even when we had "good" grass (lush, pretty = dangerous for ponies, mini horses & IR full size horses) - dehydration was a completely different matter because early spring/lush grass is usually higher in moisture as well as the dangerous sugars. IF dehydration was caused by overgrazing on lush grass, I'd like to know, too, as that's a new one to me...

The shot in the "neck vein shot" (called IV - for intravenous. Shots in the the muscle, also can be given in the neck, are called IM - intramuscular - same as for us) could have been several things and yes, could have been Banamine for pain.

I had to check out Resorb and I'm only finding it (equine meds) as a Scouring calf med (calves w/ severe diarrhea- which would cause dehydration fast in newborns) or for leg/tendon issues, so I'm not sure what that is. The term as in "reabsorb", not the meds, was also used in reference to renal failure in horses with dehydration in a published vet "paper"... Maybe someone else will know what this is and can enlighten us - I will learn something new as well.

NO NOT {{{dumb!!}} - just still learning. That's a GOOD THING.

A nose bleed could have been from several things or a combination of any/all. She's not used to being tubed (a lot of horses don't like it - it's uncomfortable, unfamiliar, maybe painful if they are moving around a lot and they don't understand our "telling them it's for their own good") - if she jumped around or shook her head - the tube could have done a lot of moving around in her nasal passages. When dehydrated, the nasal capillaries are more susceptible to "breakage" or "leaking" as the mucous membranes aren't wet enough to do their job and the capillaries are right there at the surface w/o protection. A dehydrated horse (& a person, too) that shakes their head can have a bloody nose just from shaking - add the tube and YES, a nose bleed can happen. Some horses have thinner membranes in nose/nasal passages and could have a nose bleed anytime they are "tubed" (some race & endurance horses are known as "bleeders" -get nose bleeds during heavy exertion- and can get meds to help with that). Last but not least, the person using the tube or steadying the horse's head after the tube is in place, could have been a bit rough (that can be subjective if the horse is struggling) - causing the nosebleed.

On that note, I'll never forget watching a tube worming the first time in the 70s and of course the horse was our high strung (read - "idiot") paint horse that "fought" - high head, throwing herself around, screaming (literally), snorting, pawing and striking at the person(s) holding/handling her. The tube didn't get "swallowed" and came back around thru the other nasal passage and out the 2nd nostril. Yep, seemed like a lot of blood from that - but then she was almost all white (medicine hat paint w/ 85% body white) & the blood sprayed her white areas on front of neck/chest (& the tech person handling her) every time she snorted... Turns out it really wasn't all that much blood - just seemed like a lot! That same mare eventually got tranquilized - for just about every procedure done on her because she was quite the unaccepting critter. A few years later, I did a lot of work with her as I'd taken a "shine" to her. Her relaxed attitude surprised the vet (& the farrier, later) so much he asked me, in detail, what I'd done, how I'd done it and then he called people and had some of them come out to watch me work with our "devil mare" (turns out he'd complained about her, and worried about my sister and I handling her safely, to his family/colleagues). Little did I know that I was following similar techniques that would become "famous" as Natural Horsemanship training about 10 years later! All I know is I spent a lot of time with that mare... Back to tube worming - when I found out in 1995 that I could give a simple, hand held wormer to the horses and ponies - I was OVERJOYED!!! No more stomach tubing 2x a year to dispense wormers (done by the vet, of course).

Emergency tubing is one of the reasons I handle our new foals' heads, to include inserting a finger into those tiny nostrils. Seems you get them used to an unfamiliar sensation and accepting of it w/o panic or trying to get away, and they remember it years later. Seems gross to non-horse folk - but works well for us! And so much easier on a prospective new owner if there is an issue and also the vets love it when there is no "fuss" associated with a procedure that can save a horse or pony's life... Just less stressful in an already stressed situation.

 

[paintponylvr]

On dehydration, the strange up/down weather we've been having here on the east coast (90s one day and 40s the next. Dropped back below freezing the first week of May) can cause the horse(s) to not drink. when I worked for the vet, we always knew we'd have an "influx" of dehydration colics when the weather did this strange stuff OR when we have hurricanes.

I quickly got to the point I fed my own horses very soupy wet (some don't like it - had to learn to eat this way) and have never gone to automatic waterers.

 

[Debby - LB]

Thanks Paula! good idea. Reignmaker yes would love a photo I'll send my email thank you.

 

[amysue]

There is a "horse version" of the electrolyte called equivite resorb, it is good stuff. I use resorb a lot around here for calves and the regular resorb is only labeled for calves. But there are there are other versions of powdered electrolytes labeled for multi species use. Banamine injectable works best iv, the liquid can be administered im or orally (my vet calles it "the farmer way to give banamine") there is also a paste variety. I cannot imagine not being able to have Banamine on hand. It is a prescription here too, but if the Dr. puts a prescription label on it with your name and dosing directions, it is legal to sell it to you (at least it is here anyway). She will always sell it to us of we ask so we always have it on hand. If I need something because an animal is having a problem, I call my vet's office and explain what is happening, she tells me what I need/what to do, the Dr. will write orders for the drug's use in my situation (dosage, time frame, administration etc.) The tech in the office writes these orders on the label and sells me the drugs. Now, I have a good working relationship with my vet, she comes out every spring for shots/check up. She knows what I am and am not capable of, she also is VERY busy, if she cannot come out right away, or it is a minor thing that she knows we can handle, she tells us what to do/sells us what we need. If it is am emergency and the animal cannot wait and she is too far away, this helps us a lot! I respect her treatment methods and won't ask her to break the law or act unethically either, nor would I attempt to diagnose/treat something way over my head, if I need help, I tell her "it's an emergency or I need you to look at this" and we pay her to come out to the farm. I have never asked for drugs just to have without anything being wrong because she will always help us when there is a problem...plus, her office is literally 2 minutes away from our farm. I can see where a Dr. would have issues just selling a prescription without a need just incase you might need it. I cannot go to my Dr. and get a pain med or antibiotic prescription just incase I need it some day, as that is illegal. But, if I call my physician and tell her whats wrong and it is something familiar, she will call in a script to the pharmacy without making me be seen at the office. I feel it is the same way with the vet. If I describe the symptoms and she is comfortable disgnosing over the phone, she can sell me the prescribed drug. I can see where this can be an issue if you are far from the office. I wonder if clever wording on the script label such as "if needed" could circumvent the law? Perhaps your vet would not sell you the drugs until doing an exam because she was worried that something else was wrong? It does suck when an emergency cannot be dealt with right away, it would have been nice if the Dr. could have helped you control the situation over the phone, provided drugs/directions then followed up with a visit when she had time. But, I am unfamilliar with the laws in your area and, if she could get in trouble, she won't do it. I am glad that your mare is feeling better.

 

[AJ]

Have not been on forum for some time. In reading this post i did not see one mention of mineral oil. Colic is a symptom of tummy ache but we don't know the why. If I see a horse not 100%, i.e. Resting when normally eating, I will give the oil. If rolling I will give 100-120 cc of oil and I have been fortunate in it working probably 95% of the time. This is what the vet did in my very early days (27 yrs ago) , and I have done it ever since . Buy it by the gallon. Little downside risk with upside potential. Have never had it go down the wrong tract which is what they warn about.(there is a word for that). If colic persists, contact vet. Oil can solve problem whereas pain killer relieves pain but does not solve problem.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Thanks for the more recent input guys. Sorry I am late responding to you all, things are a bit hectic around here as I am a year into our new business and now we are selling our farm and building a new home ( fencing , shelters etc. everything from scratch) The decision making is starting to make my eyes cross lol. Anyway, the one dose of banamine has settled the issue for this mare. She has continued to be just fine since that single episode but I do have it marked on a calendar to watch for symptoms 21 days out. If it recurs on a schedule I will know she is having ovulation problems again

and then my vet and I will know what we are up against. If that is the case tho I sure wish I knew what it was that stopped it the last time. I had thought it was running in a mixed herd since it stopped about the same time we sold the last stallion and blended the mares and geldings - 2 of which were geldings less than a year but the blended herd remains the same, even the same horses . AJ, I too have used the oil(I've always used a good vegie oil , usually sunflower, and a big syringe) as a go to but this mare has never acted quite this way on the occasions she coliced in the past and I was less than confidant about the cause. I posted here so I could clarify my thoughts and get the ideas that are so freely generated by our members

. I hate to admit to having a moment and not really thinking of oil, or baking soda or pepto at the time. I was a bit taken aback by her odd (for her ) behaviour so all my mind could come up with was to call my vet... and she wasn't available.