Suggestions? Ideas? Help needed

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

This is a bit of a long shot. I am wondering if anyone has home remedies they try for tummy trouble in their horses.

Her's the back story;

I have a mare (17yrs but that isn't the issue) who is acting pretty uncomfortable today. She is laying flat out, legs elevated and stiff or on her back. She is not tossing about nor sweating but has pinched nostrils and ears back. She is clearly suffering tummy pain, has in the past had issues when she is ovulating but not in the last 3 or 4 years. I have been putting them on grass for up to an hour each day for some time now but yesterday they were out longer (about 2 hours) and on longer grass so it could be that rather than ovulating. My vet is unfortunately not available (3 emergencies ahead of me and far out of town) and no other vet to turn to. I have calls in to a bunch of horse owning friends hoping someone has a bit of banamine (our vets do not sell this without a prescription here so it would be most probably from the one friend who is a vet tech) but so far no responses. So I decided to post here, hoping someone has something I might try to ease her discomfort.

 

[Debby - LB]

Until you can get some Banamine do you have some Whiskey? Can you listen to all 4 quadrants for gut activity? First remove ALL sources of food. Can you check her pulse? Will she get up and walk for you?

Please keep a close watch for heat in her feet. I have had one colic and founder when left out just a little too long.

I have used Mylanta Or Milk of Magnesia mixed with baking soda with great results. This is if you are dealing with a gas colic. It could be an impaction or torsion so make sure you check gut sounds and if she'll walk a little sometimes you'll know what the problem is if they start passing gas, so get her up to walk. If she's not struggling and rolling it's ok to let them lie a little.

I keep those GasX strips here and poke a few of those on the tongue.

I'll be keeping you and her in my thoughts. Please let us know how she is.

 

[Mona]

Since she has a history of ovulating problems in the past, I wouldn't at all be surprised if that is what it is again. Without having any Banamine on hand, I wouldn;t know what to suggest to ease her pain until the vet gets there, other than hoping maybe a near-by horse friend has some on hand that you could get some from. As Debby said, it is also a great idea to get her away from all food for now. I wonder if feeding her some peppermints, which I am told horses love, would help her if it was a gas type belly problem. It helps people. Can't hurt to try, and would likely work similar to the GasX but wouldn't coat the stomach at all.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

A quick update. After many calls to friends I still had nothing. No heat in her feet, yes she was very willing to walk but preferred laying down. Gut sounds but not much and seemed a bit bloated on the left side. Finally called the vet clinic again and asked if they could prescribe a small dose of banamine without the vet visit. Can I say....Thank god for good vets who know you! The staff was unsure and it did take a while before the vet was back in cell range again but she knows the horse, knows me and agreed. A vet tech made a flying trip out to meet her in the middle of no where (she is an entirely mobile vet and carries all the drugs with her none at the office) and within an hour and a half we had the syringe in hand. 15minutes after dosing her my mare shook, heaved a big sigh and went for a long...long... long drink. Then she stood in the sun and just relaxed for a time. Now hours later she is wandering about looking for small scraps of hay and acting herself once more. I am watching her for signs of a recurrence and the vet will call when she is back in town but Bucky seems to have benefited from the ability to relax and the end of the cramping. Her tail which she was flagging like mares will do when they are in heat (or labour) is hanging normally again. I won't feed her until I talk to the vet but at least I don't feel like she is at risk of beginning to toss about and twist something.

Thank you both for the input. A few more tidbits of info to file away for the next time I find myself watching a horse suffer with no recourse. I will be adding a couple of things to my 'kit' now. Since I can't have banamine I will get some GasX and such(wonder if she would eat Tums or Pepto pills), should have thought of the baking soda, I saved a bloated lamb with it last year.... whiskey shouldn't be too big a problem to find here

..is it for the horse or me? lol .

You guys are the best. It is great to have so many minds and cumulative knowledge at my fingertips when there is a problem.

 

[Debby - LB]

Hey that's the good thing about the whisky, we can share it LOL. Oh yes it's so nice to have a good relationship with your Vet, so Happy you were prescribed something. Well good luck to you and her! I hope she fully recovers. I'd be watching close for elimination, once she's comfortable enough to do that you should be in the clear.

 

[Mona]

May I ask you can't get Banamine? Most vets will sell you a bottle (vial) to keep on hand for when needed. It's not "that" expensive, o if you never have need for it, it's not a huge loss, BUT, if you ever DO have need, it is a wonderful thing to have on hand, for sure. I would certainly ask them, that with her history, perhaps they would agree to sell you some.

I had a mare once that acted like she was going to die! She would flop down and lay on her back. I was so scared, and so sure that she would be dead before the vet got here. (We live an hour and a half away, and he would be probably 2 hours before he got out of his office appointments). Anyway, it was so bad by the time he got here, we could not even get her to stand. Had to drag her in the stall to a place he could get on the floor to palpate her. Her follicle had matured, but did not release. He managed to pop it, and it was IMMEDIATE relief for her. We were both AMAZED!! The vet stayed and had coffee before leaving, just to make sure all was OK, and sure enough, that was all it was. That mare was one that would stay in heat forever! She had her reproduction problems, for sure!

Good to hear your mare is feeling better, and hope she continues to do so.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Yes Mona. In BC Banamine is only available with a prescription and some dang rule or other says they can prescribe for future maybes. Some people find ways around it (having a vet tech in the family is a help..but I don't have one of those

) Some go out of province for it too but that hasn't been an option for me either. I do hope this doesn't mean we are going back to a few years ago when she coliced with every heat. She has proven hard to settle too, had 2 foals for me , she's 17 and I've owned her since she was 5. I don't breed anymore so trying to get her in foal to end the cycles isn't an option. Her history says that once she has the banamine and relaxes she is going to be okay but since its been years since we had the issue I have no way of knowing if that will be the case this time. Right now she is as relaxed looking as a horse can get and you'd never know she was in such a state this morning. Fingers crossed the vet calls soon and we can discuss whether she should try eating or not. Oh and she has had a small BM that I saw so I'm feeling fairly hopeful at this point.

 

[Mona]

Oh no, that must be terrible to not have Banamine readily accessible if the need arises! That could save a horses life while waiting for a vet to arrive!! I thought I had it bad here! Have you ever heard of those "marbels"? They are like marbles that the vet puts into the uterus to fool the mare's body into thinking she is in foal, so it stops the reproductive issues. That might be something to consider for her.

http://www.northernhorizon.ca/columnists/dc-vet-clinic-advice/options-for-keeping-your-mare-out-of-heat-1.1943370

It says:

1) Marble:A sterilized marble can be placed in your mare’s uterus towards the end of a heat cycle. This marble will move around in the uterus and make the mare’s body think she is pregnant. Her hormones will then keep her from coming into heat. This method is safe and the marble can be removed at any point however it only works in approximately 50% of the mares it is used in. The downside to this method is that we need to implant the marble at a specific stage of estrus which may require ultrasounds, and the mare may reject her marble shortly after implanting it. - See more at: http://www.northernhorizon.ca/columnists/dc-vet-clinic-advice/options-for-keeping-your-mare-out-of-heat-1.1943370#sthash.3bqOJmE6.dpuf

Might be worth a shot! I am glad to hear she is feeling so much better!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Interesting idea. Its something I may have to check into if she goes back to colicing regularly. Today she has been just fine calmly eating with the others, completely back to normal. Thank goodness the problem seems to have been resolved (for this time at least).

 

[Miniv]

Banamine is also only available through a vet here too......BUT.....if you can develop a relationship with them, they will provide you with certain amounts for emergencies.

Reading this thread tells me you had a big learning experience. Stock up on the various "stuff" to help with a future "FUNNY TUMMY"....That's what we call it. And if you have to sweet talk, bribe, promise him/her your NEXT BORN, or whatever -- ask your vet for a small supply of Banamine! (I wonder what they think we'd be doing with it???)

Every transitional time of year.....between winter to summer....or summer to winter.....we tend to have two or three "funny tummy" episodes and we've successfully (knock on wood) headed them off by pulling them off feed, giving them a half dose of Banamine and making sure there was a big bucket of fresh water available.....Then offering only a small amount of hay after awhile..........

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Yes MiniV, a learning experience for sure. Something that hasn't stopped in all the many years of owning horses (and dogs, cats, sheep, cows, pigs,chickens, turkeys, goldfish etc. lol) I have quite an arsenal of things to go to but my first choice is always the vet and banamine. Other than that I sometimes find myself ruling out a lot of my options based on concern I may make things worse. If I could have spoken directly to the vet yesterday we probably could have brainstormed things to try from what I had on hand until she could come. Since I couldn't speak to her I decided I would see if people here had ideas and perhaps there was something that multiple minds agreed on, on the premise that many minds are better than one. Hopefully sharing here can make this be a learning experience for others as well without them having to experience it in person.

 

[paintponylvr]

i'm glad that she's feeling better, now, too.

Heat cycles in our mares here this year have been weird and yes, we too have had some funny acting, tummy aching girls. Not to the extent that you did though.

Funny in a way - all 3 of our daughters have mentioned extra cramping and pain w/ their own cycles this year. REALLY wondering if it ties into the weather somewhat (it was only 50* here this morning! - was almost 80* yesterday morning at the same time)... Ovulation seems to be the issue...

 

[Cayuse]

Would she be a candidate for a daily dose of Regumate to keep her from ovulating? I had a big pony who coliced several times and we finally figured out it was due to her heat cycles after she retained a follicle and hemmorhaged into her ovary. This was discovered when the vet did an ultrasound,thinking she probably was going to be headed for colic surgery. She was started on Regumate and was a much happier pony.

I don't know if it it something minis can be on, but your little mares experience reminded me of my mare, so I thought I would mention it.

Hope she is feeling tip top today!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Regumate is something to consider for sure. I will have to bring that up to my vet if we see a recurrence of this problem in future cycles. I'm kind of surprised she hasn't suggested it but maybe she isn't sure if I plan to breed or not breed this girl. I definitely don't plan to breed her again nor my tiny 28inch mare. We are all done with foals here unless we decide to buy one at some future point(even that isn't likely).

Interesting point PPL. I think the weird weather patterns are messing with light sensitive hormones maybe.

 

[chandab]

While not as effective as banamine, they do make horse aspirin, typically more for arthritis type pain than soft tissue issues, but it might work in a pinch for this, one or two doses shouldn't cause any more tummy upset than banamine might.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Really Chanda? I've never heard of that. Do you know what its called? I would certainly add it to my kit if its something I could get here. It doesn't seem to take a lot to ease her thro these episodes and I'd sure try aspirin in a pinch. I do know the banamine is both a analgesic and an anti-inflammatory so it might be the lessening of some inflammation is the biggest help but I wouldn't know until I tried it. My husband, bless his kind heart, really thinks if he begs enough the vet will 'stretch' the rules for him. He says he wants to have just one dose on hand and then we will only administer it at her direction....I would love for him to be right but we've been dealing with her for a number of years and so far she shows no inclination to bend the rules.

Farrier was here today and he was telling me of a client who has a big mare with these kinds of issues. I was sharing some of these suggestions with him and he was planning to pass the thoughts along when he sees this client again early next week.

On a totally off topic note;

He was quite complimentary on the weight of my 6 this year. I have started free feeding in a slow feeder I designed and they have mostly done very well. No cresty necks even on the 'fat on air' type gelding we own, more than the usual amount of energy for play and less 'hay belly' too. He says their feet are in excellent condition and their attitudes have never been better, they were so good for him today that he was done in record time.

 

[Debby - LB]

If you have any photos of it I'd love to see the feeder you designed....or describe it that would be good too. I'm all about DIY stuff.

 

[chandab]

Not sure what would be available in Canada, but almost all supply places have it available, I've seen both granular and paste. You could probably figure out the dosage and give people aspirin, but FYI horses take a lot of milligrams of aspirin.

http://www.horse.com/item/durvet-aspireze-aspirin-gel/SLT901034/a paste

http://www.horse.com/item/animed-aniprin-p-16-oz/E002280/powder (there are two powders listed, the other is lower dose)

I'm sure there are others, but these two I've used.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Chanda, thank you. I bet I can get those here or even have them shipped in. I'll have to talk to my vet and confirm that they won't cause harm if I use them occasionally (my thoughts are aspirin should not be an issue but worth getting her input anyway)

Debby, I'll try to describe it... no pictures except on my phone so can't post them.

The feeder is for feeding round bales which is the normal way we see hay now in this area. only a limited number of farmers put up squares and they want many$$$ for a 60lb bale now. Anyway its pretty simple, we have a shed, open on one end, its about 10 feet x 10 feet. At the open end I have a frame containing a metal mesh panel - hog wire (planning to tweak that a bit and try using netting instead so it conforms better to the front of the bale) then I have a sliding garage door tube (if that makes sense) down either side and the mesh panel hangs from those. As the horses eat the panel slides ahead into the bale and they pick it thro the mesh. The bale sits on a pallet in the winter so it stays dry on the bottom but we plan to build a new shed that has a floor to keep it up off the ground a bit. I learned with the first bale that if I stand it on end the bale will fall forward after a while but not before making it difficult for the horse to push the mesh far enough in to get at the hay which is why we are planning to try some netting altho we could just lay it on its side too. A 1500 lb bale lasts my six horses about 9 weeks, more now that they are getting out for grass too,and stays dry, and clean. Since we have a shelter for the bales as soon as they come off the fields we don't see mold or rot in them and I am much happier to feed them. When its 30 below outside we can look out and see the horses munching contentedly or napping in their own shelter because no one has an empty stomach waiting for the next scheduled meal. We intentionally made the shed only a couple of feet longer than the bales (5-6ft is bale width and height) so while it is safe from weather the bossier horses don't stand there for shelter and keep the lower on the pecking order horses from eating. It has worked out better than I had ever hoped it would.

 

[Debby - LB]

I like the sound of that! if I'm picturing it correctly that is. I only use the big round bales, always fed free choice but since I dispersed my herd and only have 2 what I do is fork it into my wheel barrow and take it to them 3 times a day. Just two of them made way too much waste where before they'd clean it all up. I wish I could do this!!