Surprise Foal Last Night

[happy appy]

Your foal looks just like my foal right from the doral stripe to the shoulder markings and the light color in the ears! My colt has dark legs though, It's hard to tell in your pictures if it's legs are black.

 

[Julie/Azariah]

I had a filly born this year that has those markings too...The vet was SURE she was a grullo. I thought so too. Definitely has a "dorsal stripe" black mane and tail, shoulder stripes. So I sent in the color test for agouti which would have to be present. She tested negative for the agouti but positive for the cream gene. She is a SMOKEY BLACK. Her sister, a smokey black (same dam, different sire) was the same last year, so even though everyone calls her the buckskin filly....except me...technically she is black. She has light eyes, grey/blue as well.

 

[Mini Gaits Farm]

Congratulations on a beautiful colt.....I have not read all of the posts yet, but just wanted to say that I had a filly a few years back that was the exact same color....stripes and all.....I registered her as grulla.......but she matured jet black....

 

[Miniv]

Your foal looks just like my foal right from the doral stripe to the shoulder markings and the light color in the ears! My colt has dark legs though, It's hard to tell in your pictures if it's legs are black.

Your little guy seems too dark for Grullo......the stripe down the back could be counter shading. My personal feelings are that many youngsters that have markings like that, plus the brown in their ears are actually "Black Bay". If you color test them, they will probably be positive for both black and agouti.

 

[ohmt]

had a filly born this year that has those markings too...The vet was SURE she was a grullo. I thought so too. Definitely has a "dorsal stripe" black mane and tail, shoulder stripes. So I sent in the color test for agouti which would have to be present. She tested negative for the agouti but positive for the cream gene. She is a SMOKEY BLACK. Her sister, a smokey black (same dam, different sire) was the same last year, so even though everyone calls her the buckskin filly....except me...technically she is black. She has light eyes, grey/blue as well.

A horse with agouti can NOT be grullo/a. WITH agouti you would have a bay dun and not grullo/a. As long as there is as at least one copy of black and one copy of dun, you have grullo/a. No black but still a copy of dun=red dun. Black+agouti+dun=bay dun

I had a silver grulla filly that was heterozygous black, heterozygous silver, heterozygous dun-NO agouti and no cream. She was born looking palomino and then darkened to be a silver/mousy gray with dorsal and shoulder and leg barring. All of my grullas (have had 5 here) were born almost creamy looking with darker points and then eventually darkened up with age. I've never had one born looking almost black so I'm thinking the dorsal and shoulder barring on Riverdance's foal is definitely just countershading. Foals are born wanting to hide from predators-that's why bays are born without the black legs or muzzle and that's why black foals are often born grayish in color. Just a defense mechanism.

Beautiful colt by the way!!

 

[Dona]

Is Magic a Dun? One of the parents would have to be a Dun to throw a true Grulla. Also, I believe there is a 42 day rule in AMHA, stating that you must wait at least 42 days after breeding to one stallion, before breeding to a different stallion. So, the colt will definitely have to be DNA'd.

Cute boy tho!

There is dun in the background and perhaps Stunning is a dun, as it is in her background. There is no question that he has a dorsal strip as well as shoulder strips. I will be calling California Davis tomorrow.

Yes, I should have waited 45 days, but I do not like having foals past May as I run into trouble with show season. So I had already planned on having him DNA'd. Or Parent Qualified.

???? If the dam is a black pinto, she can't be a dun just because she has dun in her background. If she's Dun, she would "look" dun (not black). There would be no confusing the two....unless she has so much white on her that it covers where there may be dun markings. If that is the case, you will need to test her to be sure.

 

[bannerminis]

Gorgeous boy - congrats

 

[miniwhinny]

He's cute no matter what color

I used to breed full size duns. I've bred a lot of grulla/o/s. ALL dun horses are called "dun" within that DUN group are many shades of dun...dun on black = grullo. Dun on bay = bay dun. Dun on red = red dun etc. Dun is the modifier and the shade is the horses base color.

It's pretty simple...if one of the parents is dun he could be dun (or on a black coat = grullo) if they aren't dun then he's black with foal camo. Dun does not skip a generation it has to be in a parent to produce it. It's dominant so if they have it you'd know.

Like many others have said my grullo foals have also always been born fawn colored. The darkest shade of grullo is lobo dun which is almost black in apprearance.

If you don't test him before then you'll almost certainly know when he sheds that foal coat. Or you may have one like Ozymandias who is a non dun covered in stripes and adding more yearly lol

 

[Riverdance]

As one knows, many people miss register their horses colors. Especially in Miniatures. Since many foals are born a funky color, then change their colors as they mature.

The dam is a black pinto and the little black that is on her back, does seem to have a dorsal strip, but hard to tell with all of the white. This mares dam was almost all white with a couple of black spots on her sides. Her sire was a dun. So that is why I said there was dun in the pedigree.

As for Magic, I do not remember if he had a strip on his back. Nor do I know what his background pedigree really is because as I said before, many breeders, me included, have registered their foals one color, only to find out they are a different color as they mature.

I have many foals and adults with strips down their backs, but I do not register them as dun, as they have no other dun characteristics.

As you see in the picture of the full size colt that came from a grullo web site, that foal is a grullo and is the exact same color as my colt, markings and all. Does this make my colt a grullo? Only time will tell.

 

[HGFarm]

A grullo should have primitive leg striping... I could not detect any in the pics though, but may be hard to tell with his baby fuzz. My colt that I had was VERY prominant though with the primitive striping.

Isn't there a 45 day wait between breedings to different stallions or have they done away with that now since everything is DNA'd and PQ'd?

He's a cutie for sure.....

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have to say that none of my Black Duns have had leg bars or any of the other stuff the American Dun people say that Duns have to have.

This seems to be an American Continent thing, as European Duns more often than not do not have any leg barring (such Duns are referred to as Zebra Duns) or the face mask or anything, yet they are, unequivocally, Dun.

Grulla is merely a termfor Black Dun, nothing more.

It is not rare and it is not difficult to breed. I find it attractive.

A Mexican American informs me that, in fact Grulla does not change with the sex of the animal, so I tend to use the default term of Grulla , on American sites, to describe Black Dun.

(Oh pish, my spellcheck has turned it into Grulla, when I mean Grullo, sorry, ignore it if it bothers you, it matters little so long as people know what we are referring to!!!

)

 

[Riverdance]

A grullo should have primitive leg striping..

Actually, they do not have to have primitive leg markings based upon what I have read and seen in grullos on line.

 

[Ellen]

My previous stallion was a Dunalino. We got many variations of Duns over the years when breeding him to our mares. Only one Grullo. And her leg barring did not appear until age one.

But I agree with Riverdance, they don't have to have it. But that is one nice colt!!!!!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, that is correct, NO Dun has to have leg barring, etc.

 

[Miniv]

According to Dr. Sponenberg, leg barring is considered a "primitive marking" and not required when identifying dun/grullo.

 

[HGFarm]

Interesting info on the leg barring thing......... I dont think I have ever seen a grullo (grulla) horse here without it... not saying it can't be done, but the ones I have seen have always had it, including the colt born on my place three years ago... he was full of stripes.

Regardless, you have a cute baby and I would love to see him clipped too, to see what else is under there!

 

[Allure Ranch]

Congratulations.... I don't have any clue what color he is but he very nice.