Taking offense?

[albahurst]

How do you all ask for a professional reference without the potential buyer taking offense?

 

[Joanne]

Can you be more specific?

 

[albahurst]

When I ask for a reference, I do just that, and explain that is my protocol. But, apparently, some folks take offense to my asking because they are a 'proper' home and there shouldn't be any question. Is there a way that you word this request so that it doesn't sound offending? I just simply say that I require one professional reference from a veterinarian (after someone has made an offer or is very interested- if I don't know them). The particular person that got me to wondering about this runs a big horse operation and adding miniatures. Apparently, they were offended by my asking.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Peggy, I think if they are offended they just don't get it. I ALWAYS ask for references and I actually contact them. I've never had anyone be offended by that and if I did I think I may be tempted to pass them by as a potential buyer. They should appreciate that you are the kind of person who wants to ensure your horses go to great homes. I mean, that's the type of buyer I want to purchase from.

 

[JWC sr.]

I take it you are referring to a buyer that wants to buy a horse and you are wanting to qualify the buyer. If that is a correct assumption, which may be a reach, my thoughts are the following.

We have found in the past that that really does very little besides to upset and sometimes kill a sale to a potentially good home for our horses. We prefer to do a lot of education prior to the sale and follow up mentoring to help the new owner with any problems, concerns or questions they may have.

This industry as a whole needs as much new blood/people (particularly youth) as we can get in it.

Just this last week we had a grandparent that has never owned a horse buy a gelding for her granddaughter. This lady has joined as a family the local mini club, had Jose come over to look at the new stall in her barn and is planning on attending a seminar this coming summer to learn how to groom, fit and show her new horse.

These are the type people, I personally want in this industry and in my opinion we should encourage this type of in-experienced owner in any way possible. Heck we all started there in the past!

 

[Reble]

I also believe they are going to say and tell you what you want to hear.

As far as a reference they sure will not give you one that is going to say anything put good things?

Usually vets will not talk about their clients or wish too.

I just hope who I sell my animals too are good owners, but who really knows what goes on behind closed doors.

 

[albahurst]

All good points to consider- thanks for your input.

 

[targetsmom]

I would not (did not) take offense if someone asked me for a vet reference but I started thinking about why someone might. Maybe they are having trouble paying their vet bill? Or have moved from vet to vet so any one they pick will say they haven't been there very much and can't offer a real reference. I have to say it would send up a bit of a red flag to me as a seller, because I can certainly see why you might want to do some checking. I agree that vets might not get too involved in their responses, but they should at least be able to verify that they have seen the horses and maybe how often. Now, my own regular vet is likely to talk anyones' head off!!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Usually vets will not talk about their clients or wish too.

I guess I've been very lucky. I've not had one vet that wouldn't talk to me about the care their client horses recieve. I don't ask personal question about if they pay their bill, etc. but I ask if this is indeed the vet clinic they use, do the animals seem properly cared for, and how long have they been a client.

I refused to sell a horse to someone who was a new horse person and hadn't lined up a vet yet in their area. I can understand being new and not having experience with a vet yet, but you at least need to know if there is one in your area and if they are taking on new clients at this time. This buyer didn't think they'd need a vet, they could have their farrier do everything that was necessary. No thanks. Not for me, but that's my personal opinion.

 

[disneyhorse]

I wouldn't take offense... but sometimes it's hard to give a reference. My vet... well he's so busy it's hard to get a hold of him! I usually save all my questions for an appointment, he is very in-demand and there is no way he could handle all sorts of calls coming from everywhere.

That said, I would be happy to provide pictures of my current horses and facilities if a seller asked. That way they could get an idea of what I've got here going on now.

Andrea

 

[Jill]

I'm really not sure what to think about requesting references. People are only going to give you references that will say favorable things about them... I'd probably put stock in vet references but then on the other hand, you're asking the vet to possibly provide negative information about his/her valued client.

Sometimes I have had new potential clients of my business practice ask for references and I tell them the truth in that -- my client list is confidential and I do not provide references, but if I did, obviously, I'd provide those of people who were happy with me. Then I let them know how long I've been in practice (since 1995) and how they can check with the regulatory offices to find if there have ever been any complaints against me (there never have and in my line of work, that's pretty unusual really!).

In this particular case, do you know what other horses the person owns? Maybe if so, kind of through the grapevine, you can find out what prior sellers think of how the person handles their horse responsibilities and if they'd feel good about selling the person another horse.

Good luck!

 

[albahurst]

I'm really not sure what to think about requesting references. People are only going to give you references that will say favorable things about them... I'd probably put stock in vet references but then on the other hand, you're asking the vet to possibly provide negative information about his/her valued client.
Sometimes I have had new potential clients of my business practice ask for references and I tell them the truth in that -- my client list is confidential and I do not provide references, but if I did, obviously, I'd provide those of people who were happy with me. Then I let them know how long I've been in practice (since 1995) and how they can check with the regulatory offices to find if there have ever been any complaints against me (there never have and in my line of work, that's pretty unusual really!).

In this particular case, do you know what other horses the person owns? Maybe if so, kind of through the grapevine, you can find out what prior sellers think of how the person handles their horse responsibilities and if they'd feel good about selling the person another horse.

Good luck!

Well, I do now, but now it is too late, I think.

I am just trying to be conscientious ~

 

[Carolyn R]

I do inquire about things like horse experience, other animals, type of turnout, if they have a vet, ferrier, and equine dentist or vet that floats teeth, beyond the typical protocall, I always wait for them to ask me the right questions

The biggie for me, "may I have your vets number to inquire about this horse."

That phrase says volumes to me. (and the fact that they follow through with my vet(s) at the clinic I use)

My vet will not openly discuss my animals unless I call and tell them so and so will be inquiring about my horses, you have my permission to openly discuss/answer their questions .

 

[Miniv]

This is actually a very good thread......I think there are a number of folks on here who will be interested in reading this.

Personally, I think Jill hinted at how to handle the whole situation..... Just by taking some extra time and drawing out the sale a bit, will give the seller the opportunity to learn things about the buyer.

Some things the seller can learn is - in the course of visiting -- some of the buyer's basic horse knowledge and their general management practices. We often will learn who the buyer's vet is (AND if they have one - which is good), and who some other horse people are that we may know in common.....and since we (or Larry!) knows a lot of farms AND vets around the country, it sure helps.

 

[Annabellarose]

My vet might provide a reference for me if he had the time, but, dang, he's busy! Beyond that, I would be SOL if I had to give a reference as I am pretty isolated at the moment. I am fairly new to the area and I am not from the area and I don't associate with any other horse people in or near my area at the moment as everyone that I have met in or near my area is into "big lick" Tennessee Walking Horses, which appall me! I would welcome a visit/inspection and/or I would provide photographs and videos of my horses and my facilities. Luckily, I have never had anyone ask for a reference.

 

[Taylor Jo]

I'm a buyer and when I bought my horses I "offered my sellers references and I also sent pics of where my horses would be staying. I wanted them to know they would be coming to a loving, comfortable home and they'd be taken well care of and always be fed, watered, and taken to the vet. I love them dearly like their one of my children. I think it's the responsibly of the buyer to OFFER those references, as your taking an animal from it's safe secure environment and that seller has NO idea who you are and how your going to treat it and take care of it, their entrusting it to you to do as you say and NOT everyone does that. TJ

 

[~Lisa~]

We have found in the past that that really does very little besides to upset and sometimes kill a sale to a potentially good home for our horses. We prefer to do a lot of education prior to the sale and follow up mentoring to help the new owner with any problems, concerns or questions they may have.

I have not read further then this post but have to say I totally agree- contacting a vet is not always a reliable source. Most vets will not say something bad about a client especially when you yourself are not hiring them (like for a vet check) and same with a farrier- if you were given their number it is due to the fact the buyer is a client. Why would they risk a relationship with a client even if they truly felt they had something bad to tell you?

I personally have nothing to hide and welcome buyers or sellers to my farm but I have to be honest I would be a bit upset if I found my vet who I give thousands of dollars to was discussing my horses with a complete stranger- just a voice on the other end of the phone- someone he doesnt know from adam-Just doesnt seem very professional to me

And lets be honest no one is going to give you a name of someone they feel will not tell you what you want to hear and again going a step further how would you know who you are really talking to anyway?

If I have doubts or questions as a seller I would prefer to contact another farm in their area or someone who sees them at shows and ask their opinion that way I am asking someone they did not prompt

 

[Katiean]

When I bought our last mare I volunteered the reference. I was buying on payments and really wanted to make the owner feel at ease. Since I do not feel it is any big deal for me to provide references. It should be no big deal for me to ask for references. I would just have a contract that includes them giving references. That way they are not thinking I am singleing them out.

 

[albahurst]

Well- I really appreciate all of your ideas. Thank you. Good points everyone~

I decided to contact this person and discuss this matter with him- all is well.

I will keep all of your opinions on the matter in mind the next time I am dealing with a prospective buyer.

Peggy

 

[Connie P]

Peggy,

First of all I commend you for wanting to do the best that you can to be sure your babies are going to a great home! That is so important to me also. Just this past summer I refused a sale because I will not allow one of my horses to go to a one horse home. I firmly believe that horses should not be kept alone so I explained this to the potential buyer and she understood. We are still on good terms and she found another person that would sell her only one horse so it worked out for all.

Working within rescue it is mandatory that the potential adopter provide references. Believe me not all references have nice things to say about the potential adopter/foster. Of course everything is kept confidential and it really is a good tool to investigate when you yourself are unable to travel to that particular farm and check it out for yourself.

Sometimes I go with my inner feelings. Intuition is powerful at times. If I get a bad feeling just conversing with a potential client then I just very kindly and professionally dismiss the inquiry.

If someone is absolutely not willing to provide references and/or allow me to check out their farm or ask questions about their knowledge or experience with miniatures or what their setup is then I usually will not sell to them. Again working in rescue you cannot imagine the cases we see from people that just wanted a cute little mini to put out in the backyard and not know one thing about the care of a miniature. Many have come in as foundered animals or they simply lose interest and the animal suffers the fate. :-(

Again I applaud you for taking the time to do the best you can to make sure your horses have the proper home!