The Ballad of the Spotted Toad

[rabbitsfizz]

Right, I'll try wrapping the bit today- anything is worth a try and it is so long since I have taken a horse from start to finish with these problems I am probably forgetting to do things I would once have done! I do remember years and years ago wrapping a bit for a colt I was backing, and that really did work, so, I'll try it, thanks.

Reignmaker, never hesitate!

I have three cones out- I'll put out some more today and see if it helps.

I can't remember how he was in the halter- he never did the work he is doing now, but I can certainly take the bridle off and try in the halter and see, that at least, would give me an indication of what is going on.

Thanks.

 

[shorthorsemom]

My trainer has me wrap the bit on my boy that I am ground driving. It helped alot.

His teeth were fine and I use a straight bit, but the wrapping really seemed to help alot for him.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Worked him for half an hour in the round pen and really made him listen- this was after I had driven him out in just the halter (ground driving) and he was very, very naughty, tried to take off, resisted as much in the halter as he had done in a bridle, reared, jumped up and down on the spot and generally got a very loud talking to about his behaviour in general. Yesterday he had tried to decamp with the cart again and I was so cross I pulled him round in a circle, jumped in front of him and picked him up and shook him! No mean feat, I am not sure who was more surprised but I decided I was not doing that again

I have found I have allowed him to get some very bad habits, and now we have to go back and sort them out, and It is really my fault, I cannot blame him for taking advantage. I changed the bit, and he is a lot happier in a bar bit, fine, that gave me a chance to do a bit of listening without him jiggling around. I have been harnessing and unharnessing in the same place every day, and then feeding, consequently I now have a horse who really only wants to get back to one place and fill his face!

So, today we started off with half the feed before he worked, and in a different spot, then we did a bit of going in and out of all three gates, coming back, going half way, turning- you get the idea- then we worked in the round pen, longreining form the middle and making him stay out on the rail, which he hated- he has always been able to cut corners when I was working him loose and he saw no reason why he should stop! I gave him one.

Actually, I gave him quite a few reasons, and after about 1/4 hour he actually settled into a working trot on the rail either way- success.

Then I asked for a proper walk- again with the resisting- when he is loose I have a lot of trouble getting a walk, he will "fall"forward into a trot all the time or come to a halt,anyway, today he walked, albeit crossly.

Then we went out into the main field and practised going in and out of that gate, which he also hated, then I finally hitched him up and I think he was just so relieved to actually be doing something he understood he was really quite good.

After we had done a bit of that I unhitched him and we went in and out of the gate again and back into the last yard, where I untacked him and led him through to another new place where he was fed.

It is all a bit like the "National Confuse a Cat Week" sketch form Monty Python, but I shall either be dead or very fit by the time this animal is actually driving.

 

[Sandee]

Hang in there, Jane. Sometimes it's one step forward and two back but they are still learning. I know how you feel about "who's going to outlast the other". I feel that way quite often with my horses.

I'm been rewarded of late in my work with my Shetland as he seems to be learning more and more faster and faster. I think his problem was he had no confidence in himself and very little handling by people before he was 5.

 

[MiLo Minis]

When you find yourself getting cross or losing your temper with a horse it is time to quit working. 99% of the time if the horse is not giving you what you are asking for there is either a physical reason for his disobedience or you are not being clear in your signals when asking. There are very few horses that disobey just for the sake of disobeying. I have always found horses to be one of the most honest animals.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Nine times out of ten, I would agree completely, Lori, but this has gone way beyond that now. It is in no way a battle of wills- and I am not, I can assure you, getting angry, just a little peeved- he just does not believe, I honestly think, that there is any reason why he should work.

We'll see how he goes tomorrow as he had an enforced day off today when I went to pick up a horse.

 

[Driving Miss Dixie]

Nine times out of ten, I would agree completely, Lori, but this has gone way beyond that now. It is in no way a battle of wills- and I am not, I can assure you, getting angry, just a little peeved- he just does not believe, I honestly think, that there is any reason why he should work.

We'll see how he goes tomorrow as he had an enforced day off today when I went to pick up a horse.

I have been following Toad's story because he sounds so much like my gelding, and it makes me wonder if some minis are just not very trainable? I have a 2 year old gelding that has always been on the difficult side (compared to my others). His reactions are far more explosive than the others. I have been thinking I will not put him in training to drive, as I don't think I would want to be driving somewhere and have him explode. He is a real character, with a good personality, and he will be my pet.

But I am wondering if it is possible to push them through their difficult ways and become a good driving horse????

 

[MiLo Minis]

I have been following Toad's story because he sounds so much like my gelding, and it makes me wonder if some minis are just not very trainable? I have a 2 year old gelding that has always been on the difficult side (compared to my others). His reactions are far more explosive than the others. I have been thinking I will not put him in training to drive, as I don't think I would want to be driving somewhere and have him explode. He is a real character, with a good personality, and he will be my pet.

But I am wondering if it is possible to push them through their difficult ways and become a good driving horse????

There are very few horses that are completely NOT trainable. They may or may not be suitable for driving but then you just have to find their niche. No one training method works for all horses and quite often you have to revise the way you are asking to get what you are looking for from your horse. I have quite often been surprised by a horse that is difficult in hand who becomes a dream in harness, or whatever job has been chosen for him, or vice versa. Frequently the more difficult the horse is to train the better he ends up being trained and the more dependable horse he becomes in the long run simply because he has learned to deal with more than the horse that just goes along with whatever you have asked of him. I find the ones that think for themselves tend to be harder to work with because you have to be constantly outthinking them to stay a step ahead but in the end they are a much better partner because they will quite often keep you out of trouble.

 

[susanne]

I have quite often been surprised by a horse that is difficult in hand who becomes a dream in harness, or whatever job has been chosen for him, or vice versa. Frequently the more difficult the horse is to train the better he ends up being trained and the more dependable horse he becomes in the long run simply because he has learned to deal with more than the horse that just goes along with whatever you have asked of him. I find the ones that think for themselves tend to be harder to work with because you have to be constantly outthinking them to stay a step ahead but in the end they are a much better partner because they will quite often keep you out of trouble.

^^THIS!!^^

I am on a first name basis with the poster pony for this statement!

...and would add (more for Driving Miss Dixie's 2-year-old than the Toad) that some horses simply take longer to mature.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Well, to be fair to DC he is only rising four, so maybe he is a late bloomer?

He certainly does think- he is never going to be an easy horse to drive.

The Arab I kept for riding was like this- she was lunatic and it is thanks to her I now have two back injuries (one was completely my fault, the other was completely my responsibility!) But once she was actually finished, although she always needed a very experienced rider, she was brilliant. I wanted to ride side saddle? Slap one on Amira, she'll take it, and she did, balancing strap and all. She learned to jump properly because one of the kids ponies went lame at PC camp and they needed a horse so I trucked her over there- she won the regional champs for their team even though she had never jumped inside before, and I lost my horse because after that the kids knicked her from me and used her and I only got her when they were at school!

I think at two I would be inclined to say the animal is too young to do anything more than assess it's personality- certainly no two year old of mine would go near a cart and I would normally say I would not even long rein- but I actually think in DCs case if I had long reined him and worked him a bit more, even if it was only mind exercising lessons, I would not have half the trouble I am having. I have had it FAR too easy with my MInis till now- most are willing and tractable.

DC is not.

I can remember only too well what Mr Mingus used to be like.

DC just doesn't know yet how much better his life is going to be when he has a job to do.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

OK, its been nearly 3 full weeks since I got my 'Toad' fix and I'm hoping you have an update for us. I miss hearing about him.

 

[Shari]

I found with the hard ones, finish the training you are doing now, on a very good note and let them be a horse for a 6 months to a year.

I pull them out of pasture after that lay over, and they are willing and happy to work. Some just take a lot longer to mature.

 

[Sue_C.]

I found with the hard ones, finish the training you are doing now, on a very good note and let them be a horse for a 6 months to a year.

I pull them out of pasture after that lay over, and they are willing and happy to work. Some just take a lot longer to mature.

Ditto that. Actually, the mare I am driving now was sooo not ready even as a four year old. I waited till she was five, and don't have a moments regret as she is sound in mind, (still a prankster, mind you) and we have a happy, solid partnership.

She showed how unready she was with her juvenile "need" to push-back...waiting had always served me well with my riding horses, so figured it would work with her, and my patience has been rewarded tenfold.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Both DC and Misty are having a bit of a break- it was just too much like hard work and if you can't make it fun at all, well, something is seriously wrong!!

I am going to bring them both back into work probably around Christmas if the weather permits- if it snows then Misty will be back in work because I shall need him to bring feed up etc- he did all that for me last year, no problemo, so I am hoping he will do it again.

Both of them are quite put out- DC was pawing at the gate this afternoon, and looking pretty!

Misty is such a sweet little guy that I think, as both ponies behaved in a similar fashion, both are almost exactly the same age, and I have never had this much trouble in my life before (!!) there is maybe some tooth issues going on- Misty had his wolf teeth removed, I am pretty sure DC did not but would have to check, I think I need to give them a breather, then, before I start again I will get them looked at and maybe even X-rayed just to make sure everything is as it should be. The brilliant thing about having the Royal Veterinary College as your Vet is that, if I am willing to fit in with them and it is not an emergency, if I am willing to have students do the work (strictly supervised) they can cut me really good deals on it, so I am going to get all that sorted before I start again. I also just cannot cope with this harness- I need a comfy fit and I need one that is made for a Mini, not a Shetland harness I have adapted!!

So, a month off now, Vet check and then back into work slowly.

My nerves can't take any more attempted suicide drives, I am too old for all this!!

I keep looking at this driving site and there are LOADS of cheap ponies, a bit bigger than a Mini, but, I do love Sec A's- there is a leopard 38" stallion, with cart and harness, guaranteed quiet, for approx $1200.

UGH!

No, BAD idea!!!

 

[Shari]

I was lucky, I started Maggie when I was younger and not gimpy. Have been driving her for a lot of years.

Would I want to start from scratch now, ah.... nope. Can't in all honesty, to much walking.

So if I wanted another driving horse, I would buy one. Making sure it was really properly trained. Nothing wrong in that!!

Why don't you go see that fulling trained wee driving horse, you never know, he just might be what you want and need!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Shari, you are really NOT supposed to be encouraging me!!!

 

[Shari]

Shari, you are really NOT supposed to be encouraging me!!!

OK ...well.......

........ I can't wait to see photos!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Thanks for the update

I have been following DC's story because I have a young guy that I will be starting in the spring that I already know is going to take more work/time/patience than any I have done before. Reading your struggles helps me plan methods of dealing with what he will throw my way

Shari, you are really NOT supposed to be encouraging me!!!

For what its worth, I agree with Shari, you won't know unless you look. You know what you have now and what its going to take to get where you want to be. Maybe the trained horse is not as good as advertised but then again, maybe he's exactly the horse you hope to train DC to be. You are perfectly capable of making the judgment and walking away if its not a step up for you. As for the down time, I absolutely agree with that approach, my horses in training often get breaks to clear the air. Sometimes its a day or a week, sometimes months but usually its until 'I' can go back to it with a clear mind and less going into it with the expectation of trouble. I find it is very often me that needs to step back and rethink things, sometimes to find a new approach, sometimes to adjust my own attitude.

Hopefully if there is a physical problem with DC you will find it and things will go more smoothly when you are ready to restart.

 

[targetsmom]

Really appreciate the update and also can appreciate your dilemma! I think you should take a look anyway. Reading about your trials and tribulations has helped me put our training issues into perspective and I'll bet it has helped others who may just be lurking. Yes, sometimes it is best to take a break, which we did recently too. Training to drive is not a race. I have to keep reminding myself that the trained mare I am using for an example NOW, was not easy to train herself, just a few years ago.

Oh, and for those of you who have never trained a horse to drive and are considering it, please read these posts carefully.

 

[MiLo Minis]

With my own horses I quite frequently start them in the spring, leave them over the summer and start them back up again in the fall OR start them in the fall, leave them over the winter to digest what they have learned and start them back up again in the spring BUT that is when all is going well. I would not have chosen this time to leave the Toad to digest what he has experienced. I can only say that you are likely to have a much harder time when you take him back to it after him having a not so great experience even though you did ground drive him a bit after his episode. I really hope it goes better for you at that point but in my experience it isn't likely

It may be time to look at having a trainer give you a hand with him if you do want him to drive and aren't feeling confidant enough to work with him yourself.