The United States Debt Limit Explained

[Jill]

When you put it that way so do I !

Yep

 

[miniwhinny]

But Jill - I am NOT on the outside - and that is where your carefully crafted excuse not to consider anything I say as valid - or to sneer at my opinion - falls completely apart. I am more "inside" than many American citizens who cannot be bothered with current events or voting or volunteering their services to those who need it - or anything mundane like that. I am HERE on the INSIDE. Paying taxes and doing every single thing that you do - and maybe more, for all I know. All I lack is that one piece of paper that Homeland Security denies to my visa and yet the last two Presidents have wanted to present to illegals as part of an amnesty program. That burns me up.

Maybe I have an even better perspective on things than you do - as I have been on the "outside" looking in as well - and have experienced firsthand many of the things that Chicken Little talking heads and viral emails squawk about... usually erroneously. I may actually have a far more well-rounded outlook...

But hey, now that both you and Sonya have decided that anything I say must be dismissed

(as you wish) - as you have repeatedly stated while lashing out, stirring the pot and fanning the flames merrily along the way

- you can just scroll by. But in this age of the internet and instant mass communication - IMO dismissing other input like that is kinda like sticking your head in the sand - or maybe unplugging your computer from anything except your local neighbourhood....

How do you know what someone's nationality is when they post? You don't have a freakin' clue unless they tell you. I guarantee you that many you may be chatting with on political forums are NOT American... the only reason you know I am Canadian (aside from my spelling) is because I was relating Homeland Security/Immigration policy screw-ups - and offering first hand experience (and that of friends and family) on Canadian healthcare that disagreed with what some lame viral email claimed was the truth and the norm...

it wasn't. Not even close. But hey - a 95% false viral email has far more validity than personal firsthand experience - I understand that...

Tag,

you and I have differences in politics but I love the fact that you are knowledgeable and educated enough to know what you're talking about and not just repeating the talking heads like so many do. You're open minded enough to teach, to learn and to share ideas and thoughts.

I tell you what though sure don't want to be in the market tomorrow morning with any short term open trades. I'd be very surprised if all heck doesn't beak loose after our credit rating was reduced. So much for everyone working together. Can you imagine a business running this way - half the building not only dislikes but refuses to work with the other half!

Why does that seem so bizarre to all of us but the politicians.

 

[maestoso]

That video is informative. The problem I see is that for anyone simple minded enough to believe it, it suggests that the fix is easy. Just choose a new leader, problem solved. It is not that easy. As the video states, the debt ceiling has been increased time and time again, by both republican and democratic leaders. This video is just another piece of political propaganda developed in hopes that it can catch the attention of some voter who is attracted to the idea of an easy way out. Reality is that there is no easy way out, and regardless of who the next leader is, they will likely not be able to fix the problem within their term. We can hope for progress, but the road ahead is long. What we need is a leader who'll make smart decisions. And I don't believe for a second that that person is more likely to be republican or democrat. Either type of leader can be smart, make good choices, lead us well. Jill, it is not your opinion that I find offensive, it is your assumption that liberals/democrats can be categorized and stereotyped so simply. That's just ignorant.

I would like to address government handouts/welfare for a moment. You give off the impression that most of "those" people are democrats/liberals. Well in my opinion, it's doubtful that most of the people utilizing those services are educated enough to identify with one party or the other, or informed enough to even be knowledgable about the issues. While I have some conservative perspectives, I would say that for the most part I consider myself a "liberal." My biggest concern for "those" people is education. They are not educated. They are not educated for many possible reasons. Maybe they just didn't have the motivation, maybe they didn't have the push from responsible parents. But in many cases they are not educated because they did not have the opportunity to be educated. I feel blessed that I have parents that could afford to put me through college, and blessed that if they couldn't, I had the drive and motivation to do it for myself. But that drive and motivation is the result of a good education and a decent upbringing.

I am going to be slightly hypocritical at the moment and "group" the republicans together, whom if had their way, would not provide any hand-outs at all. If education were a handout, we'd have a country full of exponentially more educated citizens, who would watch videos like the one you just posted and realize that it is not that simple. They would realize this because education is what teaches people how to think critically and think for themselves, instead of relying on somebody elses thinking, who may have underlying motives and a manipulative way of captivating the attention of anyone willing to listen.

Countries far more successful than we are, thriving countries, offer free education. An opportunity we'll likely never see if the republicans get what they are looking for. Why are they thriving?? BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF THEIR CITIZENS ARE EDUCATED! Unfortunately, the educated human being has become the minority in the US, and until that problem gets addressed, we will never improve, regardless of who is leading us.

I think we need to work on addressing problems with solutions that make sense, not with solutions that are based on a conservative or liberal perspectives, for the sake of being conservative or liberal.

 

[miniwhinny]

That video is informative. The problem I see is that for anyone simple minded enough to believe it, it suggests that the fix is easy. Just choose a new leader, problem solved. It is not that easy. As the video states, the debt ceiling has been increased time and time again, by both republican and democratic leaders. This video is just another piece of political propaganda developed in hopes that it can catch the attention of some voter who is attracted to the idea of an easy way out. Reality is that there is no easy way out, and regardless of who the next leader is, they will likely not be able to fix the problem within their term. We can hope for progress, but the road ahead is long. What we need is a leader who'll make smart decisions. And I don't believe for a second that that person is more likely to be republican or democrat. Either type of leader can be smart, make good choices, lead us well. Jill, it is not your opinion that I find offensive, it is your assumption that liberals/democrats can be categorized and stereotyped so simply. That's just ignorant.

I would like to address government handouts/welfare for a moment. You give off the impression that most of "those" people are democrats/liberals. Well in my opinion, it's doubtful that most of the people utilizing those services are educated enough to identify with one party or the other, or informed enough to even be knowledgable about the issues. While I have some conservative perspectives, I would say that for the most part I consider myself a "liberal." My biggest concern for "those" people is education. They are not educated. They are not educated for many possible reasons. Maybe they just didn't have the motivation, maybe they didn't have the push from responsible parents. But in many cases they are not educated because they did not have the opportunity to be educated. I feel blessed that I have parents that could afford to put me through college, and blessed that if they couldn't, I had the drive and motivation to do it for myself. But that drive and motivation is the result of a good education and a decent upbringing.

I am going to be slightly hypocritical at the moment and "group" the republicans together, whom if had their way, would not provide any hand-outs at all. If education were a handout, we'd have a country full of exponentially more educated citizens, who would watch videos like the one you just posted and realize that it is not that simple. They would realize this because education is what teaches people how to think critically and think for themselves, instead of relying on somebody elses thinking, who may have underlying motives and a manipulative way of captivating the attention of anyone willing to listen.

Countries far more successful than we are, thriving countries, offer free education. An opportunity we'll likely never see if the republicans get what they are looking for. Why are they thriving?? BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF THEIR CITIZENS ARE EDUCATED! Unfortunately, the educated human being has become the minority in the US, and until that problem gets addressed, we will never improve, regardless of who is leading us.

I think we need to work on addressing problems with solutions that make sense, not with solutions that are based on a conservative or liberal perspectives, for the sake of being conservative or liberal.

:yeah

Brilliant post. I think you hit every nail smack on the head.

 

[weebiscuit]

I don't know how to quote from two separate postings, so I'm addressing two people in this post.

First, tagalong..... I didn't know you were Canadian. I want to preface my remarks by saying that I have quite a few very good Canadian friends... all from Ontario. We've been back and forth to each others' homes many times. We all met in 1997, on the internet, of all places! We had a get together in Toronto in 1997 and in 1998 an even bigger one at my place in Wisconsin. I dearly love my Canadian friends, and thank them heartily for introducing me to Tim Horton coffee and Red Rose tea!

On a trip to Hawaii with four of my Canadian friends, we went to the USS Arizona WWI Memorial at Pearl Harbor. While in the one area with the shrine to the dead sailors, it was a very somber place, and we were all full of reverence for what happened there. There happened to be a group of Japanese high school students there at the same time, and they were all laughing, noisy, and not at all respectful while in this shrine area, and one of the canadian women I was with walked up to them and said, "Show a little respect here or leave!" Being Japanese, they didn't argue but certainly quieted down. Also, during a film of the attack, this same Canadian woman had tears running down her cheeks. These were NOT Canadian military that were killed, but US men, yet she cried for them. I will always love her for that!

Here's something I've learned about Canadians, too. Besides being just darned polite, they are, as you said, very aware of politics in the US... sadly, often more aware of them than US citizens we allow to vote. My Canadian friends are what we here in the states would call "liberals." We get into arguments all the time over socialized health care, but while they see major problems in their health care system, they also feel it's far superior to privatized health care.

When we have elections here, (these canadians are on another discussion board with me), they seem to know the issues and the candidates as well as any US citizen I know.

Now, to maestoso... you were discussing welfare and uneducated people who utilized it. You said, "But in many cases they are not educated because they did not have the opportunity to be educated."

 

I don't agree with this assessment at all. EVERY child has the opportunity to a free public education through high school. After high school, there are government grants, student work programs, low-interest loans, and local and state scholarships available to anyone with the MOTIVATION to get a college degree.

We are ranked low in our nation when it comes to educational standards. That's because nothing has changed since we first became a nation and set aside one section in each township for a public school. Now we have consolidated, but we have not changed the "system" at all over the years. I agree that we need to look at other educational systems from countries with higher results than ours and see if we can't learn something from them.

I also agree with you that we need to provide MORE opportunities for higher education. But I don't believe we should allow illegal aliens the same entree to our universities as US citizens have, yet here in Wisconsin, our "liberal" government two years ago voted to allow illegal immigrants to attend our Wisconsin universities for in-state tuition costs. Doesn't matter if they live in Oregon.. they can come here and pay in-state tuition. Yet a good student from Ohio, whose parents pay income taxes and whose money STAYS in the US, would have to pay out-of-state tuition. Where is the sense in this?

I believe that higher education should be more affordable for all students. This would require eliminating the unions that currently provide outlandish salaries to professors who sometimes are not even in the classrooms, but allow TA's to teach instead. But I don't believe it should be free.

I am a former teacher with a MA degree. So is my husband. Yet we are both very ANTI-union. I also happen to believe that college is highly over-rated. I think about 50% of those students would be better off and make a better income in a two year tech school.

We have three adult kids. Sadly, one of them never wanted to go to college. Yet, at age 38 his income is $175,000 per year. He is in an executive position and got that position because he's smart. Another child dropped out of college after one year. She is currently a bank manager. i don't know what she makes but she's 30 years old and has just bought a beautiful three-year-old home and drives a 2010 model car and seems to have all she needs or wants. Our third child went to college on an ROTC scholarship, and is half owner and vice president of an engineering firm. So, two out of three kids not college graduates, but they made it in this world due to motivation, drive, and brains.

And that is the problem with offering free education to anyone who wants it. You will open the floodgates to students who are NOT motivated and have no desire to succeed, but will simply be there taking up university space because their government has taught them once again that they can do absolutely nothing and get something for free. And what the heck... if they manage to graduate but are still unemployable due to poor work ethics or personality problems, it's no big deal because the government will provide them with a welfare check. This is no way to address the problems we are facing as a nation. No, I don't feel that college should be available only to the rich, but I would never agree that it should be free. When students are taught early on that they must WORK for what they want in life, I feel that better character and work ethics are developed.

When a student has to pay for that education, then there is a lot more at stake in the outcome.

 

[maestoso]

Weebiscuit........when is the last time you applied for a student loan, scholarship, grant or financial aid? The idea that it is possible and attainable for anyone who wants it (in this day and age, NOT 20 years ago) is a fairy land fantasy and simply not true.

 

[Mark & Sharon Bullington]

Saw a bumper sticker the other that reminded me of Jill. It said "My sticker may not agree with your sticker - but I'll defend until death your right to STICK IT!

 

[ohmt]

I am a college student-the oldest of 6 and the only one over 18. My mother has raised us on her own on a salary of $40,000 ($30,000 before she went back to college to get her bachelors-she had already attended a 2 yr tech school). You would think I would get a lot of financial aid, right? NO. Financial aid covers half. The other half I have to negotiate with my school in payments that I pay off throughout the semester. I take 20 credits a semester and I have to work full time plus still work at the farm to pay for my education. I was finally given a pell grant last semester for the first time (1,000). I can get a personal 'college' loan if and only if I have someone able to cosign which means they must have decent credit. My mother does not and they will not allow my grandparents to cosign since they are retired and do not receive enough income. Scholarship? Oh yes, i received plenty but they lasted my freshman year and that was it. Past freshman year they go to 4.0 students who have the time to volunteer. I get a 3.5 (I was not able to get an A in chemistry, organic chemistry, pchem, or biochem) and i work work work so no scholarships for me. I would like to know how anyone that did not grow up in a wealthy family can get a college education without constantly fighting tooth and nail for it. A middle class family is screwed-no financial aid and no extra money to spare. I absolutely understand why many people give up on college.

I have noticed that the past few years I have more and more people in my classes that have come back to get their bachelors because their 2 year degree isn't cutting it. That includes my boyfriends mother who worked 20 years for a company as a financial advisor making 100,000+. The company was bought out and she has been unable to find a job for 2 years. She is incredibly smart and has amazing work ethic so that's not the problem. Everyone wants a bachelors degree or higher.

While I love hearing your wonderful, cheerful stories Weebiscuit, not everyone has such an easy life as yours and your children's. In fact, most don't and that is NOT because they are daft, dumb, or lazy.

It is late and I might be sleep drunk and will probably regret this post tomorrow-for now I hope someone will understand there are people struggling who do NOT get everything for free. Who work hard for education and food. Stop making generalizations.

 

[Jill]

... I would like to address government handouts/welfare for a moment. You give off the impression that most of "those" people are democrats/liberals....

Let's refresh the different philosophies followed by Liberals/Democrats vs. Conservatives/Republicans. I didn't design the platforms and if you don't think that's what a Liberal is or that's what a Conservative is, maybe you aren't yet set on your own political identity.

LIBERALS - believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all. It is the duty of the government to alleviate social ills and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. Believe the role of the government should be to guarantee that no one is in need.

Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems.

CONSERVATIVES - believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals.

Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.

Countries far more successful than we are, thriving countries, offer free education. An opportunity we'll likely never see if the republicans get what they are looking for. Why are they thriving?? BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF THEIR CITIZENS ARE EDUCATED! Unfortunately, the educated human being has become the minority in the US, and until that problem gets addressed, we will never improve, regardless of who is leading us.

Public employee unions, which protect poor performing teachers, are a huge part of why our eduction system is broken. Pouring more money into a broken vase will not cause it to do a better job with its water. We should bring schools to a more local level, get employee unions out of the public sector (not just in schools), and let the free market do what the free market does best -- work!

 

[Jill]

Saw a bumper sticker the other that reminded me of Jill. It said "My sticker may not agree with your sticker - but I'll defend until death your right to STICK IT!

My reply to your remark is really just a quote from comedian and conservative talk show host, Dennis Miller, reflecting what he said about anti-American film maker and liberal icon, Michael Moore:

"Michael Moore simultaneously represents everything I detest in a human being and everything I feel obligated to defend in an American. Quite simply, it is that stupid moron's right to be that utterly, completely wrong."

 

[Mark & Sharon Bullington]

Now of course Jill, I know you have more sense and class than to call me a "stupid moron".

 

[Jill]

I am a college student...

Amanda, do you think if it were not so easy to get low interest rate, government subsidized loans that a college education would cost as much as it does today, or that the cost would be escalating so much faster than inflation? I don't. Just one example of our tax dollars at work, but helping us? Maybe not so much.

And actually, as a part of what I do for a handful of clients, I do know a fair amount about college planning and funding.... which brought my thoughts to your comments about an out of work financial adviser close to your family. There are a few ways to be in this line of work. I've always been independent and never an employee of anyone other than the corporation I own. In exchange for not being an employee of a big name brokerage or insurance company, I cover all my own overhead including staff salaries, ETC. But the only time I get "fired" is if / when I lose a client. Even when I was a registered principal of a National firm, I was an independent contractor and they really just facilitated the securities work I did. Right or wrong, the way I approach my career and my political view point are intertwined.

 

[Jill]

Now of course Jill, I know you have more sense and class than to call me a "stupid moron".

Well, I was actually hoping you'd chalk it up, at least in part, to creativity

And I want to show off one of my new favorite bumper stickers... since we're on the subject. I was happy to find one that could in no way be mistaken at a glance for a real Obama sticker.

 

[miniwhinny]

Weebiscuit........when is the last time you applied for a student loan, scholarship, grant or financial aid? The idea that it is possible and attainable for anyone who wants it (in this day and age, NOT 20 years ago) is a fairy land fantasy and simply not true.

I also agree with you that we need to provide MORE opportunities for higher education. But I don't believe we should allow illegal aliens the same entree to our universities as US citizens have, yet here in Wisconsin, our "liberal" government two years ago voted to allow illegal immigrants to attend our Wisconsin universities for in-state tuition costs. Doesn't matter if they live in Oregon.. they can come here and pay in-state tuition. Yet a good student from Ohio, whose parents pay income taxes and whose money STAYS in the US, would have to pay out-of-state tuition. Where is the sense in this?

And that is the problem with offering free education to anyone who wants it. You will open the floodgates to students who are NOT motivated and have no desire to succeed, but will simply be there taking up university space because their government has taught them once again that they can do absolutely nothing and get something for free. And what the heck... if they manage to graduate but are still unemployable due to poor work ethics or personality problems, it's no big deal because the government will provide them with a welfare check. This is no way to address the problems we are facing as a nation. No, I don't feel that college should be available only to the rich, but I would never agree that it should be free. When students are taught early on that they must WORK for what they want in life, I feel that better character and work ethics are developed.

When a student has to pay for that education, then there is a lot more at stake in the outcome.

I 100% agree with the illegal immigration comments - oh and they wouldn't be coming to you from Oregon because Oregon voted in the same thing. I take it one step further - they SHOULDN'T be getting free elementary and secondary education either. That's still OUR tax dollars paying for it. Our classes are overloaded and there's not enough to go around as it is. It's time we had no taxes and a flat rate national sales tax...see how many illegals go home when they have to pay their share.

As for a "free university" education allowing everyone and all to go - that's incorrect. In the countries I know about you have to have a certain standard of education and have passed a number of quite challenging course exams to be able to get it. It's not available for just anyone - only those who have shown in their HS education that they deserve it.

 

[maestoso]

As a teacher with consistently high performing students, I support unions. I'll leave it at that. I'm passionate about the field and have the experience and knowledge to back up what I say, because I have lived. Saying that you know a teacher or help students get financial aid so you are ready to debate this topic with an actual understanding of what it is and what it means is ridiculous. A child argues argues with little logic because in many cases they simply don't know, but they are usually stubborn enough to convince themselves that they do, and so they keep going. Because of this, it's almost impossible to win an argument with a child, and that's what is going on here. I'm off to do laundry, a far more valuable use of my time.

 

[Jill]

As a teacher with consistently high performing students, I support unions. I'll leave it at that. I'm passionate about the field and have the experience and knowledge to back up what I say, because I have lived. Saying that you know a teacher or help students get financial aid so you are ready to debate this topic with an actual understanding of what it is and what it means is ridiculous. A child argues argues with little logic because in many cases they simply don't know, but they are usually stubborn enough to convince themselves that they do, and so they keep going. Because of this, it's almost impossible to win an argument with a child, and that's what is going on here. I'm off to do laundry, a far more valuable use of my time.

I'm sure you're as happy with their results as I am with my clients' results. Remember, the discussion wasn't actually about teachers but about the National Debt, Liberals, and Conservatives. Good luck with your logic and laundry pursuits.

 

[weebiscuit]

While I love hearing your wonderful, cheerful stories Weebiscuit, not everyone has such an easy life as yours and your children's. In fact, most don't and that is NOT because they are daft, dumb, or lazy.

It is late and I might be sleep drunk and will probably regret this post tomorrow-for now I hope someone will understand there are people struggling who do NOT get everything for free. Who work hard for education and food. Stop making generalizations.

I will admit that maybe I'm simply "out of touch" with the reality of today's educational challenges. I graduated from college in 1976, and back then I didn't have my parent's money to help me. I went on my husband's teaching salary. Plus I carried 22 credits per semester so I wouldn't have to pay for an additional semester at the end. I had a job, scholarships, and worked 22 hours a week plus I had two pre schoolers. I got a student loan... a total of $2,400, which actually took me four years to pay off after graduation. I know things are different these days, just didn't realize how different.

All my kids had full scholarships, but only one took advantage of it, so I was one of those lucky parents who didn't have to pay for college educations. For the one son who was ROTC and received an engineering degree, our total expenses came to about $100 over four years, and that was in gas money traveling to visit him at school.

I still couldn't ever advocate a free college education to anyone and everyone. I feel that anything we get in this life is dearer and sweeter if earned and not given as a handout.

I would also like to address your statement about not everyone having such an "easy life" as mine. Yep... I have an easy life. NOW I have an easy life. We have a retirement income plus my husband has a social security income plus we have our own successful business. But let me reassure you that it was not always this easy.

After I graduated from college I couldn't find a teaching job the first few years, so I did a lot of substitute teaching... for $15 a day. I graduated in 1976 and in 1979 we sold our old farmhouse plus an acre of land for ten thousand MORE than we had paid for the old farmhouse and forty one acres of land in 1972, and began building a new house. When the house was half finished my husband lost his teaching job due to budget cuts. He taught Spanish and German. They were eliminated.

He couldn't find another job. We are in a very rural area. The next closest school was simply too far away and we didn't want to sell our land. So, we moved into our home, unfinished, and lived with a electric hot plate for a stove as we had none. We lived with sub flooring on the floors, and most of the rooms hadn't gotten the sheet rock on the walls, so there was no wall between the kitchen and the bathroom or between the kids' bedrooms, and by now we'd had a third child.

We were scraping by to make our house payments, but we would never have considered any type of welfare. Instead, we put ads in the local papers. We offered maple trees from our woods for sale. We'd dig them by hand and sell them for $10 each, or $15 if we had to plant them.

We planted a few acres in sweet corn, and had a stand on the side of the road, and made the kids all get up early in the morning and help pick corn and they had to sit there and sell it with us.

We went for ten mile walks down the roads with the kids.... picking up aluminum cans so we could turn them in for gas money. We took on lawn mowing jobs, and the oldest son also did lawn mowing. We hired ourselves out to help farmers make hay. I would buy a pound of cheap burger and get six hamburgers out of it. For "fun" we'd take the kids to old mine pits and we'd dig for quartz and fossils in the tailings from the mines, or we'd take them fishing. My husband and I wouldn't fish because we couldn't even afford a fishing license, but we'd take the kids because they didn't need one, and we'd bring the fish home to eat. We shot squirrels to put food on the table, and did everything we could think of to survive. This went on for three years, and then my husband was hired back where he taught before.

When my kids were growing up during those years we had one channel on our TV. One old Chevy Chevette my husband and I shared, and the kids didn't even have bikes until they got them for Christmas one year from their grandparents. But all during those years we never took a cent from the government. I sewed every single thing my kids wore. I even made my husband's suits for school! One year we were so poor that the only present our kids got for christmas was some stuffed dinosaur animals that I sewed for them, plus a few things the grandparents bought. (That's why I refuse to even own a sewing machine these days).

So, I've seen both sides of life. I much prefer THIS side, but my kids always tell everyone that while they were growing up life was very hard, but they always had love and they always had two parents there to support them with love. It wasn't until they were in high school that we finally started to pay off our debts and have the money to finish our house properly and feel things ease up.

And I honestly believe that the reason my kids are so successful today is because they had determination to never have to go through years like that again, and they never wanted their own kids to live like that. And, they were all taught at an early age that nothing comes easily, and life is often a struggle, but there is always a way to put food on the table, and anyone with enough determination and drive can succeed. It's simply up to the individual. It's NOT up to the government to provide for those who can't provide for themselves.

I will agree that in an economy such as today's, when our jobs are all being outsourced overseas because the companies can't compete with union demands in the US, there will be exceptions. Sometimes people do need help, but I have never believed in the cradle to grave welfare philosophy of the liberals. A helping hand, yes. A hand up, yes. But a complete hand OUT... No!

 

[ohmt]

I'm glad you understand my 'sleep' outburst then Weebiscuit. My mother has also never asked for help and while she is doing okay now, back before she went to college was when it was the worst. You and my mother worked extremely hard for what you've got, but that's not just intelligence that gets you there, it's will power, strength...and maybe add a little touch of stubborn in there

Many people don't have that. After seeing her go through everything I can understand someone needing a little bit of help. As long as it IS a little bit and only until they are back on their feet. I know there are people who take advantage, but there are also some people who just need that little bit.

As you could tell, working out my college finances frustrates me to no end. Thank goodness there are advisors at the school to help me figure it all out. I am actually proud of myself for keeping my debt fairly low (I am not very good at financial planning). Grad school debt is what will pile up, but I don't mind if it gets me where I want to go.

Anyway, it sounds as though you are a great mother. I hope your children are proud and appreciate you.

Jill-the financial advisor close to my family actually shares most of your political views, I bet you two would be great friends. I know she has enough money saved that she is doing just fine. She has a part time job and is getting her bachelors at the moment and I think maybe enjoying a little down time with her kids both in college now. She'll have no problem getting a job once she gets done with school (in 3 weeks), she's just the type of person you want working for you. I like your thinking though-my dream is to have my own vet clinic. It'll take me a while, but i'll get there

 

[Jill]

I don't doubt that for a minute, Amanda, and I think you will be an outstanding vet!

 

[tagalong]

I think we need to work on addressing problems with solutions that make sense, not with solutions that are based on a conservative or liberal perspectives, for the sake of being conservative or liberal.

YES. A thousand times YES.

:yeah

But that will never happen as long as many cling to generalizations like this....

LIBERALS - believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all. It is the duty of the government to alleviate social ills and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. Believe the role of the government should be to guarantee that no one is in need.
Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems.

CONSERVATIVES - believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals.

Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.

Oddly enough, many people Jill would sneer at for being "liberal" according to her definitions (including me), also believe in personal responsibility, individual liberty, government not needing to see to everything, values, necessary defense, people being granted the freedom to achieve their own goals etc.

Things are NOT as black and white as many with political tunnel vision always insist they are. That kind of thinking gets us NOWHERE - as the ridiculous debt ceiling debate/stall tactics showed us. Only the extremes at either end might tend to follow those supposed "rules". MOST of us are a mix - and there is far more gray than black & white. Anyone willing to take a step back from their rigid "definitions" can see that... and I sigh when people tell me that they "know" exactly how I think and what I believe in all while telling me I am wrong to beleive or think that way according to their "rules". Mainly because those who think they "know" that and tell me so are usually 99% wrong.

What this country needs is about 5 political parties - and less of this rigid R or D or Conservative or Liberal nonsense.... that accomplishes very little in the end.