Thinking about the rule proposal about abusive practices

[Millstone Farm]

I have been reading the topic proposing a rule change that would ban the tying of horses at shows. Whether you agree with this or not, I want to give everyone a different perspective on the topic of "abuse" and how it is viewed by the public.

About 10 years ago (maybe more), I was president of the NYSMHC. One of our sanctioned shows was held every year at the NY State Fairgrounds in Syracuse. They held a 2-day show there in conjection with other breed shows (Saddlebreds, etc.). We did not run this show, but did support it and points earned were counted in our club's year-end awards.

We showed in one of the smaller cattle barns, which had wood shavings as the base of the arena footing. Because this show was held at such a public venue, we did get more spectators than the norm.

One spectator saw a professional trainer use a lighter in a halter class to get her horses' attention. This was before the AMHA outlawed the use of lighters. This spectator believed that this particular act should be punished and immediately went to the show's manager. The reaction of the show manager was to tell the spectator, "oh, all the exhibitors do that!" The spectator was outraged. From her vantage point in the stands, it looked like the trainer was flicking the flame ON the horse's nose. She was rightly outraged and decided to take action. She also felt that using a lighter in an enclosed arena with wood shavings as the base was a fire hazzard for the horses and humans in there.

First she wrote to every Syracuse-based newspaper to let them know about the "common" abusive practice of flicking a Bic lighter in the face of an innocent little horse. Then she wrote to NY's 2 senators. Then every legislator. Then the Humane Society, and then of course PETA. Then she wrote to the fire marshall. Eventually she got around to writing to me, as president of the NY club.

Fortunately, I had just completed an extensive course in dealing with animal rights activitists (particularly PETA) and the media. I immediately wrote back to her and explained that this is not a practice that was in any way approved of or tolerated by our group. I then had to address every person she had contacted to dispell the campaign (and truse me, it was a campaign) she began against us.

What made this so critical was that just 2 weeks later, our club was hosting a 2-day show at this same facility. I had no idea whether we would have protesters at our event, but we had to be prepared just in case. I had to contact every single one of our exhibitors to let them know that there might be undercover PETA people at this show and to please be extra careful on how they answered even the most innocent of questions (some people have already listed some of the typical questions that come up at shows, such as, "why do these cute little horses wear blankets when it is 90 degrees outside?" "Why is that horse wearing a twitch?"). Let's admit it, some of our common practices "could" be viewed as unkind by the uninformed public. I asked all of our exhibitors to take a step back and think about how their actions could be viewed. I also asked that anyone who was unsure how to respond to please let me speak for our group. And, because the AMHA had no specific rule about it, I told everyone that there would be NO lighters used.

The day of the show we posted flyers throughout the barns and in the arena that stated it was the policy of the NYSMHC that NO inhumane treatment would be tolerated and that violators would be banished and escorted off of the property.

Thankfully, this problem didn't turn into the nightmare that it could have.

This entire problem could have been diffused immediately had the show manager at the show where the spectator first saw the "incident" answered properly. Instead, she gave a flippant answer that only served to fan the flames.

The positive thing that came out of this event is that I lobbied the AMHA Show Committee for a rule that specifically bans the use of lighters and created the language that now appears in the rule book that bans the inhumane treatment of our horses.

We all need to look at a situation from the eyes of the general public. We all want them at our shows because they are potential new owners. However, all of us must keep in mind that they are looking at us from a different perspective. We need to always think how our actions can be interpreted by the general public and view these as opportunities to educate.

 

[Sandee]

Still say that education NOT legislation is the best answer and your statement seems to support that view too.

I refuse to buy one of those cars that they came out with that "automatically" straps you in with a seatbelt. It should be my decision! I think a lot of the reason that kids don't play outside games as much as "we" used to is that they are forced by parents and society to put layer upon layer of "safety" equipment on so they don't get scratched up. :arg! (putting on fire retardent suit now) Our society has opted to legislate what we can eat, where we can play, how we can play (and in doing so who can play if they can't afford the equipment) to the point of making our kids a bunch of whimpy, scared of their own shadow, and unable to entertain themselves children (and I don't just mean the age group).

 

[Reble]

We all need to look at a situation from the eyes of the general public. We all want them at our shows because they are potential new owners. However, all of us must keep in mind that they are looking at us from a different perspective. We need to always think how our actions can be interpreted by the general public and view these as opportunities to educate.

I agree and have seen things at our fun local fair shows, example: a trainer who took a closed fist hit the horse in the head not once, twice, at least three times until the horse flipped with cart.

A young exhibitor with her horse in cart close by went in a dead run, and thank goodness someone stopped this young girls run away.

Spectators just shocked at this and talking, I went to the ring Stewart and another person who was helping out at this show, and they said to me, that horse does try to get away with things when it is out in public.

More details, but you get the picture and the trainer and horse was being waited on to come back into the next class.

So what is abuse? OH!

 

[Buckskin gal]

It is so wonderful that there ar people like you who have the courage of your convictions to speak out for our animals. Most people would see the potiental danger of having a fire around straw and other ignitable material but then there are those who don't have commom sense so laws have to be made to protect the innocent. I don't like ever more laws any more than anyone else but when there are people who are not considerate of other living things someone has to speak UP. Mary

I have been reading the topic proposing a rule change that would ban the tying of horses at shows. Whether you agree with this or not, I want to give everyone a different perspective on the topic of "abuse" and how it is viewed by the public.

About 10 years ago (maybe more), I was president of the NYSMHC. One of our sanctioned shows was held every year at the NY State Fairgrounds in Syracuse. They held a 2-day show there in conjection with other breed shows (Saddlebreds, etc.). We did not run this show, but did support it and points earned were counted in our club's year-end awards.

We showed in one of the smaller cattle barns, which had wood shavings as the base of the arena footing. Because this show was held at such a public venue, we did get more spectators than the norm.

One spectator saw a professional trainer use a lighter in a halter class to get her horses' attention. This was before the AMHA outlawed the use of lighters. This spectator believed that this particular act should be punished and immediately went to the show's manager. The reaction of the show manager was to tell the spectator, "oh, all the exhibitors do that!" The spectator was outraged. From her vantage point in the stands, it looked like the trainer was flicking the flame ON the horse's nose. She was rightly outraged and decided to take action. She also felt that using a lighter in an enclosed arena with wood shavings as the base was a fire hazzard for the horses and humans in there.

First she wrote to every Syracuse-based newspaper to let them know about the "common" abusive practice of flicking a Bic lighter in the face of an innocent little horse. Then she wrote to NY's 2 senators. Then every legislator. Then the Humane Society, and then of course PETA. Then she wrote to the fire marshall. Eventually she got around to writing to me, as president of the NY club.

Fortunately, I had just completed an extensive course in dealing with animal rights activitists (particularly PETA) and the media. I immediately wrote back to her and explained that this is not a practice that was in any way approved of or tolerated by our group. I then had to address every person she had contacted to dispell the campaign (and truse me, it was a campaign) she began against us.

What made this so critical was that just 2 weeks later, our club was hosting a 2-day show at this same facility. I had no idea whether we would have protesters at our event, but we had to be prepared just in case. I had to contact every single one of our exhibitors to let them know that there might be undercover PETA people at this show and to please be extra careful on how they answered even the most innocent of questions (some people have already listed some of the typical questions that come up at shows, such as, "why do these cute little horses wear blankets when it is 90 degrees outside?" "Why is that horse wearing a twitch?"). Let's admit it, some of our common practices "could" be viewed as unkind by the uninformed public. I asked all of our exhibitors to take a step back and think about how their actions could be viewed. I also asked that anyone who was unsure how to respond to please let me speak for our group. And, because the AMHA had no specific rule about it, I told everyone that there would be NO lighters used.

The day of the show we posted flyers throughout the barns and in the arena that stated it was the policy of the NYSMHC that NO inhumane treatment would be tolerated and that violators would be banished and escorted off of the property.

Thankfully, this problem didn't turn into the nightmare that it could have.

This entire problem could have been diffused immediately had the show manager at the show where the spectator first saw the "incident" answered properly. Instead, she gave a flippant answer that only served to fan the flames.

The positive thing that came out of this event is that I lobbied the AMHA Show Committee for a rule that specifically bans the use of lighters and created the language that now appears in the rule book that bans the inhumane treatment of our horses.

We all need to look at a situation from the eyes of the general public. We all want them at our shows because they are potential new owners. However, all of us must keep in mind that they are looking at us from a different perspective. We need to always think how our actions can be interpreted by the general public and view these as opportunities to educate.

 

[Elsa]

i love that you put this rule into effect as it is a fire hazard.

However, as for the other thread concerning tying the horse, I think it would have to be allowed or not allowed, as in the case with the lighters. I don't think there's any way that you can implement a rule that says a horse must be able to lie down when tied. This leaves too much gray area that someone can easily argue.

I also think that it should be to the stewards discretion of what should not be tolerated. Afterall, isn't that why they are there to begin with?!

A Horse show steward sometimes also called a rules steward or licensed steward, is a licensed official at a horse show tasked with the responsibility of interpreting and enforcing the rules of the organization that sanctions the horse show. In many organizations, stewards also must submit reports following the show explaining any major rules violations or other information that may be required. The show steward is an individual required to be of the highest ethical standard.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Thank you, Jenifer. How good it is to hear of someone who has taken a reasonable AND humane position, and acted to bring about positive change.

I would say that hitting a miniature horse ANYWHERE on the head with a closed fist constitutes abuse, Reble, under the stated circumstances. If I understood correctly, the 'excuse' was that the horse 'tries to get away with things in public'? That sounds like a crock of you-know-what, to me, and would in NO WAY justify treating the horse in that manner....Believe me, I expect good manners from the horses I deal with, but the more I hear of the things that are done to many of them, the less I admire much of the human race, to be honest.

BTW, I would support a serious and thoughtful attempt to write an enforcable rule/include more specific wording in the 'unhumane treatment' rules of the miniature horse registries, to try and address abuses of ALL descriptions,including that of forcing horses to spend hours, even days, tied up virtually every moment. I also greatly admire the 'other thread's original poster, who has the cojones to NOT 'walk on by', telling herself that it 'isn't her business'. It's high time we as a society got away from this "to each his own" attitude about EVERYTHING. 'Hands off' is FINE, in most aspects of life, but there still ARE actions and behaviors that are patently WRONG, and the increasing trend of society to 'never' question them is itself, WRONG---especially when animals, who cannot speak for themselves, are concerned. I have SEEN the world change, and some of it is NOT for the better, believe me. There is a 'old saying' to the effect that 'all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing'--I believe it was never more true that in these times.

Margo

 

[skanzler]

Margo

I applaud you too. Very well said....

And wow is this statement true.......There is a 'old saying' to the effect that 'all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing'--I believe it was never more true that in these times.

THANK YOU

 

[HGFarm]

LIGHTERS???

You know, I think it is a VERY SAD state of affairs when people don't have the sense God gave a goose when it comes to cruel, inhumane, neglectful and just plain STUPID things, and that good folks have to waste time making it a RULE so they know not to do it- not because they agree or admit it is not nice, but because they are not 'allowed' to!!

No wonder I firmly believe in natural selection - sometimes it appears to me that the genetic drift is veering towards the above though, I fear.

I wonder if the rule could be written so it at least says something about absolutely NO stalled horses will be allowed to remain tied over night (perhaps defined by sundown to sun up?? or something) - so it will at least allow the horses to lay down and rest at night? The wording is certainly going to be tricky.....

I cannot imagine having to go back and try to UNdo with all the people, a campaign and things being spread regarding the things done at shows. I think all breeds would certainly want to remain in a positive and noble light in the public's eye, but again, I see that for many, it is the dollar signs and the glory of the trophies that matter, not the fun, the love of the equines, the teamwork, etc... involved in showing or what ever it is that folks choose to do with their horses. What a shame. (Race and reining horses and their EARLY training is a pet peeve of mine, and its ALL for money)

Bless those who take the time to educate, speak up and try to stay on top of things to keep things 'right'.

 

[Millstone Farm]

Each sponsor of each show can state what "rules" they want in place and list them in their show programs. Leaving a horse tied while unsupervised can be dangerous. A simple solution could be to ban the practice at the local level. How strictly each show chooses to police the situation is up to them.

 

[heart k ranch]

Each sponsor of each show can state what "rules" they want in place and list them in their show programs. Leaving a horse tied while unsupervised can be dangerous. A simple solution could be to ban the practice at the local level. How strictly each show chooses to police the situation is up to them.

I going to have to say it the greatest thing to do, but if you have a horse that is use to being tied then no I don't think it is "dangerous". I know (or atleast at rodeos) that if a horse gets hung up or got hurt their would be people helping out the horse and someone running to get the owner. I always say there is always someone watching!

I think picking out the little stuff is going to "run away'' people. I think any one with common sense will know not to have lighters or cigs around hay,horses,etc....

Again that is my two cents...

 

[Katiean]

I was out driving my mare. I am not tiny but not huge. Most of the people that drive by think the little horse is great. My mare is a solid 34". I have had a couple of people drive by shaking their heads like "look at that BIG person making that poor little horse pull them in a cart" Is that inhumane? We all know how balanced the cart is. I had a lady buy a saddle from me that thought the horse bore most of the weight. I put my niece into the cart and handed the shaft to the woman. She was shocked. She THOUGHT driving such a little horse was inhumane. She was educated by my demonstration. She found that there is no weight on the shafts. I am sure there are people that think the clip on the lip used as a twitch is inhumane. I was one of them. However, my colt has to have a clip so I can trim his feet by myself. He stands real still when he has the clip on and yes, I have him tied while it is on. I can see a show steward going to tell someone to lengthen a rope if a horse is tied too close. I think it needs to be up to the show. I believe since the show has to uphold the rule anyway, why not leave it up to the individual show or the local SPCA.

 

[disneyhorse]

I don't understand why people are stuck on the "horses must never be tied/or tied long enough to lay down" issue.

The issue was NOT that horses were tied too short.... it's that these horses are tied so short they can NEVER lay down for a week on end.

So it's not the TYING UP issue... it's the LENGTH of tying that is the issue...

Abuse takes many forms.

Andrea

 

[R3]

This is SO true. We really need to be conscious of how our 'normal' actions with horses may be perceived as 'abuse' by the general public. I think any of us who have been to parades while driving our minis have heard people say, "That's cruel, they're too little to be pulling a person around."

I have become super cautious about even carrying a whip when I'm in a parade. To a horseperson, a whip is an indespensable aide that is used when driving to cue the horse. But, to the general public, whips are considered 'evil' and their only use is to beat a horse. Since a whip is essential when driving, I do have one with me, but I try not to carry it in my hand, I have it leaning on the floor in as inconspicuous a way as possible, but still readily available. And, if I have to carry it, I don't hold it in the 'correct' position, pointing upward, I carry it pointing more downward, or along the reins, so it doesn't attract attention. It seems ridiculous, but anymore, with the vast majority of people being so far removed from farm life and horses, you can't be too careful.

BWMinis, What did you mean about 'protection' in your statement, "MY BIGGEST pet peeve is AMHA rule on thier jumpers and horses NOT WEARING PROTECTION, that in my eyes is CRUEL!!!!!!" ?

 

[R3]

I thought that AMHA allowed 'protection', at least that is how I am understanding the rules.

On page 79:

F. Horses must not be shod. Use of pads, wedges, chains,

weights, weighted ankle boots, elastic bands, shackles or

any other artificial appliances that enhance a horse’s

action will not be allowed on any showgrounds of AMHA-approved

shows. Unweighted bell boots, splint boots, or

quarter boots for protection may be used in warm up areas

only xception: Jumpers(Amended 12-6-03, effective 01-04)

(Amended 2-26-05, effective 01-06)

Page 90:

G. Front leg wraps and/or boots are permitted in jumping

only.

Page 103:

1. Jumpers

a. Jumpers are scored mathematically, based on

faults incurred between the starting line and the

finishing line Minimum height for jumps must be

eighteen (18) inches and maximum height twenty-eight

(28) inches for first jumping round xhibitors

may go over jumps with horse Whips are permit-ted

and exhibitors type of footwear is optional

Front leg wraps and/or boots are optional

 

[R3]

Alison, do you always use protection on your horse when jumping? Did you use it in the AMHA shows you attended? I have seen three photos of your horses jumping (on your website and in your avatar), and I don't see any protection on them.

WHEN does it become cruel if you don't use it?

Why is AMHA 'cruel', just because they don't require protection?

I haven't seen AMHR jumper classes, do the competitors in AMHR ususally wear protection? AMHR doesn't require it, so is AMHR 'cruel' too? Will you boycott their shows too?

Sorry if I seem a little unkind, but from your first post you said AMHA was 'cruel', and made it sound like it was because AMHA didn't allow protection. I then showed that AMHA does allow it. But, on your next post, the complaint is now that you didn't see people using protection (even though they could have if they chose too), but for some reason, AMHA is still a 'bad guy'... but AMHR is a 'good guy'? I just don't see the logic

 

[disneyhorse]

Allison...

The issue was the LENGTH of time NOT the length of rope.

These horses are tied SHORT and unable to lay down... but this is for the ENTIRE duration of Nationals.

The original topic was brought up because the cruelty was that the horse was tied up so short for so long that the exhausted horse had to hang itself on the wall to try to lay down to sleep.

This "trainer/owner" has done this for years.

Some people, myself included, does not find it ethical to have a horse literally have to hang by it's halter suspended in air to merely try to sleep.

It has NOTHING to do with EVER tying up a horse. EVERYONE ties up the horse.

I suggested a rule that the horses have some freedom from being tied up so that they can safely lay down to sleep overnight... during those hours, no exhibitor should need to tie their horse for things like grooming or harnessing or drying/bathing, etc.

We need to give those Stewards some more TEETH... they have a hard enough job as it is. I RESPECT them for what they do... but they can't do much about grey areas in the rule book. I myself have come across some grey areas...

Andrea

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Sorry to be off-topic, but I wanted to make a quick comment on the jumping boot thing.

AMHA allows leg protection BUT I have NEVER seen ANYONE use them. JMO they should be mandatory not optional. This whole year showing I did not see one person using leg protection on thier horses in the jumping classes.

Alison, I think there's a few factors involved there.

For one thing the so called "sport boots" for minis seem to have very little in common with their large horse cousins except shape. I have absolutely no confidence in their ability to absorb landing shock, only that of hitting a pole, and given that our poles are light PVC not heavy wood that doesn't particularly concern me. I'd like to see some studies put into how well the boots work! If they actually work then I'll use them. Two, those boots often do not fit very well. I know the ones I have seem to rub Kody's pasterns when he's close-clipped and I feel therefore that it's kinder to use no protection than bad protection. I'd love to use polo wraps but as someone who was never part of the pony club/jumper world no one ever taught me to wrap them properly. 4-H did, however, teach me that to wrap wrong can cause a lot of damage!

So again, I'd rather use no protection than bad protection. Third thing- has anyone ever had a mini actually injure themselves jumping?

You hear about it all the time with big horses but never with minis. It is my suspicion that their considerably lighter weight per square inch, tougher pony-like tendons, and the fact they aren't carrying a rider keeps them from injuring themselves. Most minis also have shorter pasterns than their larger counterparts which may help prevent hyperextension.

Okay, and it's also a fashion thing! *LOL* Those who know how to use them properly don't trust the boots available and no one else uses them because there's no trend to follow telling them they should.

At least that's my guess! I do think Sid looks great in his boots.

Leia

 

[R3]

OK, I can see where I have misunderstood what was written. If I have it correctly now, you are saying that it is cruel to jump a horse over 36" high, unless it has leg protection? And, since AMHR doesn't ever ask horses to jump that high, AMHR is not a problem? But, AMHA jumpers may have to jump 36" or higher, without requiring leg protection, so that allows cruelty in the AMHA jumper classes? Do I have it right this time?

 

[Katiean]

I had a big horse mare that jumped 4'9", Sidesaddle and did not use leg protection. It threw her off so I didn't use anything. It even threw her off to use bell boots.Was that abuse? I don't think so or she would not have jumped sidesaddle. The thing is, we can not mandate to everyone the way in which they are to handle their horses. We may not like the way they are handled and may not handle our own horses in that manor. But, The fact is we can not tell people how they treat their horse, dog or even kid for that fact. I saw some one so afraid to spank their kids they had them drop and do 10 push ups. The embaresment to the child was much worse than getting a swat or two. I will never forget the way the kids looked at me when they had to do the push ups. Did I like what the parents were doing to he ids? NO! Was there anything I could do about it? NO! I guess what I am saying is if there is something reportable then report it. If you just don't like it, walk away.

 

[stormy]

I think the important part of the initial post is, instead of just making a rule against one type of animal abuse, a general rule was made stating no abusive practices would be tolerated. Each and every show should have a similar rule posted with instructions on who to report any suspected abusive practices to. Instead of picking one practice to prevent this can address all issues, gingering, soring, tying short for long periods, restricting water access, etc. There is a lot more going on than just keeping a horse tied up at some of these shows.