This is going to be personal, but I have no one

[The Simple Life Farm]

So glad you went through this HUGE first step towards independence. After my parents divorced, my mom said one thing that has stuck with me for 25 years..."we don't have to go through this life two by two". She was a very strong woman, and did many, many things by herself.

This is the time for you to do things for yourself and girls. If it is meant to bo, then Allen will come around. Remember... when you don't know what to do, do nothing.

I can hear it in your posts, that you are keeping your head high. Keep up the work, you have it in you.

People eat out all the time by themselves, doesn't mean they are weird. Might want to start with a fast food joint first, and work your way up LOL. Have fun, and find the new you that is hiding inside. We are here for you.

Kelly

PS... glad you didn't give away about the movie, cause I am going tomorrow!!!

 

[Jill]

I'm happy you went and had a great time!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Denise]

Good for you Kim!!

It's those first little steps that are the hardest!

Soon you'll be up and running and doing those things you thought you could never do.

 

[Mom2Cami]

I've been following this for days..I'm so vey proud of you and the decisions you are making. Keep it up!!!

 

[lvponies]

Allen and I are driving up together today to see our oldest daughter who is in rehab. Both my daughters thinks it's really weird that we're doing this together!! They keep asking.....you're both going?? Yep, we are!! It's about a 2.5-3 hour drive one way through the mountains of WV. MY oldest daughter said....well we are going to talk about this then. I told her not to beat him up. He's doing what he feels like he needs to do, but he still loves both his girls. She thinks it will be weird and awkward. Told her it will be just like normal and not to worry about it. Not like we're fighting or putting each other down. So...we'll see what she has to say to him. Both girls have already said that they will hate any woman he ends up with. I told him that maybe he should hold off introducing anyone he's interested in to the girls until he's serious about someone.

I don't know what's next for me. There's a little gym about 10 minutes away from me. Years ago I enjoyed doing step aerobics. Might run by there and see what kind of classes they offer. It would be fun to get involved in a class again.

 

[AppyLover2]

I've been debating for days whether or not to jump in here. My first thought was "someone's finally given me an opportunity to say things I've wanted to shout from the roof tops for years", then became reluctant to do it. But here goes.....

Let me start off by saying I'm 65. I've been divorced twice. The second time twenty-some years ago (26?, 28?). Who knows....but at the time it practically destroyed me! I'm not pointing fingers here, not saying anything about anybody; just expressing my opinions about observations I've made over the years.

I have a friend who's been married forever yet at times I've seen her talk to her husband like a dog. I've watched her behave that way for years and wondered why he was still there. A few years ago she found out that he had been having a long term relationship with another woman. Needless to say, she was devistated. She couldn't face the possibility of living without him and I actually think she'd have committed suicide if he hadn't decided to stay. She told me sooo much was going to change. She was going to be a better companion, lose weight, dress nicer, etc, etc, etc., All those "changes" lasted about as long as a snowball in you know where. The really sad thing about this is that those of us who know this couple understood why he was seeing someone else.

I know another couple who I never once heard exchange a cross word. She was always dressed nicely (with make-up) and always met him at the door with a kiss when he came home from work. I guess theirs was an "old fashioned" marriage (it was, after all, my Dad and Stepmother), but I've never seen 2 more compatible people. I don't think things like that happen by accident. I think it actually takes work and commitment to one another.

I'm not saying that it's only the woman's place to make home a happy place to be. After all it does take 2 people to make a marriage.....just like it takes 2 to destroy one. In my opinion "fault" or "blame" are only important when we're trying to make ourselves feel better. When you get right down to it.....what difference does it make whose "fault" it is????? The important thing is to fix it before it's too late.

What I AM saying is that if you're like my first friend it just might be time to wake up and smell the coffee. Please believe me when I say that just because you're tired of picking up his dirty socks doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of women out there who would be happy to do it. I know...because I'm one of them; and you can bet that I wouldn't complain when I did. Most women don't want to break up a marriage, but there are a lot of us who would be willing to pick up the pieces. Think about it!!

 

[Reble]

Allen and I are driving up together today to see our oldest daughter who is in rehab. Both my daughters thinks it's really weird that we're doing this together!! They keep asking.....you're both going?? Yep, we are!! It's about a 2.5-3 hour drive one way through the mountains of WV. MY oldest daughter said....well we are going to talk about this then. I told her not to beat him up. He's doing what he feels like he needs to do, but he still loves both his girls. She thinks it will be weird and awkward. Told her it will be just like normal and not to worry about it. Not like we're fighting or putting each other down. So...we'll see what she has to say to him. Both girls have already said that they will hate any woman he ends up with. I told him that maybe he should hold off introducing anyone he's interested in to the girls until he's serious about someone.

I don't know what's next for me. There's a little gym about 10 minutes away from me. Years ago I enjoyed doing step aerobics. Might run by there and see what kind of classes they offer. It would be fun to get involved in a class again.

Sounds like you two should have time to talk. Good Luck

The gym sounds good also...

 

[Sanny]

there are so many posts on this that after a while I just skimmed through the pages but a couple of things stood out to me. For years and years we've done foster care and we are required to have 30 hours of specialized training a year and between the training and actual experience raising several teen-agers with issues and taking a variety of different meds - usually anti-depressants, mood stabilizers and anti-psychotic drugs, your husband absolutely is displaying (and admitting to) all the classic signs of someone clinically depressed and also thinking suicidal thoughts. A depressed and at-risk person will often say all the same things he has said to you, wanting to get rid of belongings and responsibilities, disconnect themselves from friends and family, etc. all the stuff your husband is saying. He needs to see a professional for evaluation and maybe consider meds on a trial basis - if nothing else to see if they make him feel differently or to prove to himself and others that he doesn't need them or they don't make a difference. I've seen the right medication completely change a person for the better and once they are better they look back and can't believe how different they are feeling. Your husband also had a rough year and coming out of that could have been the trigger that has thrown him into a mid-life depression. The difficulty is getting him to agree to see someone and try meds. With kids it is easy, you just tell them what they have to do, with adults you have to get them to agree to it.

Moving beyond the first thought I had of the depression and possible mental health issues, my other thought was that he is either seeing someone or is interested in another person. I thought back and couldn't think of a single couple that I've known over the years that has split up that one of them didn't already have someone on the side they were either seeing or were interested in getting involved with. Also, fresh in my mind is that someone I know that recently had her husband decide he wanted a divorce and he insisted there was no one else and she wanted to take the high road and split on good terms and hold her head high and be civil to each other and play nice and help each other "move on" and all that and she eventually found out that not only was there someone else, it was her BEST FRIEND. She had absolutely NO IDEA they were carrying on a dirty little affair right under her nose. She couldn't figure out when they would have been seeing each other. They didn't actually see each other in person a lot but they did manage without either spouse having a clue (yes, she was married too) they spent a lot of time secretly talking on cell phones and e-mailing and chatting online and writing love notes and would sneak off to meet each other whenever the opportunity presented itself. When she confronted them her (former) best friend actually said to her "I hope we can still be friends". I am still a little disapointed in her for continuing to be so civil and nice to her ex-husband even after she found out about the affair and she said she felt humiliated and stupid. She has moved on though and bought her own place, took up new hobbies, traveling and is doing all sorts of stuff strictly for herself and seems to be happy and liking being single. OH...and another thing she said about it is that she "should have known" something was up (the affair) because he (like your husband) was a very passive person and not the sort to take the initiative to do anything and also (like your husband) never fought and never really talked much and all of the sudden he was wanting a divorce and is willing to talk things out and wants to be friends, etc.

Also, if you end up staying together and trying to work it out, a couple of things stood out to me in your posts ......... I found it interesting that you said you and your husband hardly ever fight and that he doesn't talk a lot. I think you both need to learn not to be afraid to open up and fight with each other more and say whatever you want to say and talk everything out more. My husband and I have been together for nearly 20 years and we fight and argue all the time about everything from dumb little stuff like "what color the sky is" to the big life decision stuff, though usually we have a blow up and yell at each other but manage to come to some sort of compromise or at least agree to disagree. I can't remember ever fighting and going to bed that night still angry because we always manage to end up talking whatever the problem is out. if you and he are going to work on the relationship you need to talk more about everything big or small. My husband and I talk all the time. If he is gone for the day working we call each other several times throughout the day whether we actually need to talk about something or one of us is just checking in with the other for no reason. If he finds it difficult to express himself verbally or it feels awkward in person, maybe you should consider writing letters back and forth or e-mailing to start opening up the communication more.

You also need to try to get out more on "dates" and get away together for quality time. For us what works best because of our schedules and our kids ages is we usually try to go out to lunch together several times a week and since we both like movies we try to see a movie once or twice a week. (we also just saw the "Bucket List" and thought it was a great movie) Even just running errands with each other gives us time together and the chance to talk.

Also if you end up staying together, try to find some common interests or active hobbies to pursue together. For us it is our horses, movies, books and of course our kids. Just try to find more mutual interests. Maybe go on a couple retreat together?

Another thing, I'd suggest, unless you really hate this stuff, is take time to pamper yourself and get your hair done, buy new clothes, join a health club, etc. No matter what happens, you will feel better about yourself, you will lose the weight you say you want to lose and you will get out more and possibly make some new friends. I still can't believe he told you you have "let yourself go" If my husband told me that.......

Beyond that, if your husband really truly has no interest in at least TRYING to work through this together and stay together, if I were you there is NO WAY I'd do a single thing for him or make this easy for him from this point on. He acts like he wants to be all nice about it all but in my opinion it sounds like he just doesn't like confrontation and is looking for the easiest way out and the path of least resistance and is just saying all that so that you don't cry and fight and make him feel bad and make it harder for him. Basically he wants you to make this as smooth and easy as possible for him. Screw that. In my opinion he is treating you like a doormat and he is throwing away a long-time marriage that doesn't sound like it was all that bad for either one of you until now and is throwing away a relationship with the mother of his children without even trying to consider making less drastic changes or trying counseling or trying to work out the issues and make a better marriage. He could have come clean with you and said he is unhappy and needs to make changes in his life and included you in those changes without deciding to just throw your marriage in the garbage after all those years and move on. Let him cook his own meals, do his own laundry, run his own errands, take care of himself and let him have the freedom and independence he is craving. You sound smart and capable and perfectly able to take care of yourself on your own and if your daughters know everything you have shared on the forum they will respect you more through this if you are strong and independent and assertive and stand up for what is best for YOU not for him. Don't ask him for help with anything anymore, you don't need him. Any work he has been doing around the farm for you a handyman or hired man or neighbor can helo you with if you don't want to do it or don't have time to do it. If you love your farm, don't move. Why should YOU change your life and lifestyle because HE wants something different. You are not the one wanting a divorce and wanting a new life. If it is a financial concern about being able to afford your lifestyle on your own, consider maybe getting a roommate or a part-time job. I don't know what the marital laws are in your state, but here in MN if you have been married more than 10 years you qualify for spousal support and of course, you would get child support for any children still under 18. Let your husband make all the changes he craves and let him leave the farm behind and go find a bachelor pad / apartment and live his single life. If he wants to keep the fancy new truck tell him to live in that then. Then he doesn't have to worry about all the possessions he wants to get rid of.

I wish you luck and don't know if I was any help at all, but I think your husband is taking you for granted and needs some sort of a wake up call. Maybe go off on a spa weekend and get the big head to toe make over and some new clothes and get your friends to set you up on a couple of "dates" or if you don't have a friend that can do that, join a local singles group or support group and see how he feels about you and about working out your marriage then.

 

[lvponies]

Thank you for the additional insights and thoughts re my marriage and marriages you all have had experience with. It's a lot to think about and believe me, I'm doing an awful lot of thinking lately. My brain aches!! I think we have both taken our marriage & life together for granted. Neither of us worked on it at all. It was just there. For right now, I am going to work on me, let him go if he chooses and try to find a life separate from him. Hoping he will miss us and come back, but if not, hoping I will be better prepared to live alone. Reality is that even though a husband was in the house, I was pretty much a single parent anyway. He has never been involved with either of our daughters lives. The girls and I go on vacation alone, school events alone, etc. He has been non-involved all these years. Now, in his defense, his father is the exact same way and Allen is living by the example he grew up with. My M-I-L made a life for herself outside her marriage. Social activities, trips, etc. I tried to get Allen to participate through the years, but he had little interest. Hey.....it's not fun sitting through some of these school activities, but I was there for everything and wouldn't have missed it or done anything differently!! We'll have to see what happens. If after his time apart he should choose to return....well things will be alot different or he won't be returning at all. He will need to make a choice to actively participate in our marriage or he can stay gone forever!! There are loads of opportunities for improvement!! He will have to choose if he wants to work me or not. This experience has been a real eye opener for me. Guess I spent alot of years sleeping through our life together and simply didn't see what was right in front of my face!! My eyes are wide open now!!

Ok.....about our trip yesterday...........couple of interesting things came out of it. Remember I went to the movies Friday? My daugher told me yesterday that she called and talked to her dad while I was gone. He told her that I had gone out on a date!! He kept telling my daughter how good I looked over & over!! She said that he sounded jealous. Mary told him that I had told her I was going alone, but he had trouble believing that and kept saying I had gone out on a date!! I think it's funny!! Plus, he's told me that I look "nice" but hasn't been real enthusiastic about it. I figured he wasn't noticing. Then yesterday on the way to the center, we stopped at a store. When I came back to the truck, he said this man was looking me up & down and then announced that to my daughter once we got there too. When he and Mary had a private talk, he kept saying how good I was looking too. So....He is noticing and I will keep it up!! If it makes a difference great. If not, I'm feeling pretty good about myself so that's enough for me. We didn't really talk about any issues on the way there or back. I did tell him that Mary had said it wasn't all his fault. I told him I agreed with that and that I had taken the marriage & him for granted and never tried to work on it. That it takes 2 people to get where we are right now, not just him by himself. He told Mary that he still loves me, but wants this time alone. She asked about divorce papers and he said he's not ready to go that far and will probably end up coming back. He said it's not about finding other women. If that should happen, then what? How do you deal/handle the fact that he's been out there alone and may/probably find other women? I really don't think I could handle that!! I guess we will cross that bridge if/when we get to it. It was good to spend time with him yesterday in the truck. It was pleasant & I enjoyed being with him. Think he may have enjoyed being with me a little bit too.

So....I continue with my own personal quest for happiness on my own. I will go to the gym and see about classes and my younger daughter is interested in taking some too so that will be fun for both of us. I'll continue to try to look the best I can even when I don't feel like it!!

I'll continue to try to treat him with respect and support his choices. I know Allen, if I cried and screamed at him, it will push him away even more. So.....I will remain calm. I will make the most of our time together before he leaves and will deal with him walking out the door when the time comes. I need him to make a choice to be with us. I wouldn't try to hold someone who doesn't want to be with me. He needs to get out there and decide if our marriage & family is worth it to him. If it's not, then fine. Hoping he will decide to come back & fight for it.

But for now........I am grinning ear to ear that he thought I was on a date and that bothered him!!!

The feelings aren't completely gone regardless of what he says!!!!

 

[Jill]

{{{Kim}}}

I am giggling!!! I thought getting all dolled up and going out without him would get his wheels turning

No matter what, you are doing the right things for YOU

 

[Charley]

Glad to see that things are working for you.

But I still feel that his depression needs to be addressed. Please don't give up on getting him to see a doctor. Seeing your strength and changes, may add to his negative feelings about himself.

 

[Basketmiss]

Thats does sound like he was jealous!

I'm glad he is noticing you and he did tell your daughter he still loves you.. I knew he hadnt stopped loving you...

Keep doing what you are doing for YOU and if Allen chooses to jump on board and thats what you want then fine...

I hear such HAPPINESS in your posts, so at least your feeling better from the beginning of this week..

Keep us posted...

 

[Marty]

Well you may have noticed I have hardly said a word so here I go:

I think you have moved on too fast. I don't blame you for getting a bit fixed up and heading out to a movie if you think that is helping your self esteem. And heck yes I let myself go. I was all of 115 or so pounds when I married the Hus and then got pregnant at 35 and again at 37. I was plum worn out running with two babies trying to be a super mom and still holding on a job and never put my kids with a babysitter. I had to also take care of my aunt and my mom who had alzheimers and change their diapers too for years in my house and feed them like they were babies too and listen to them screaming all the time. Then I had to watch them die and then my brother die. So yes I got fat and didn't take care but I had my family together and what do you think I looked like at the end of the day? And of course we experienced the worst, the loss of our first child which could have easily been the end for us but again, we continue to hang in there together. So it just seems to me you have done little to nothing significant to try and fix this mess and save your marriage. Don't you want to even try?

If it were me, I couldn't start planning my new life until I was possitive I did everything in my power to save my old one. I think a lot of people here are almost acting very flippant about this. It sounds almost like some are encouraging you to go out and play games and have a blast but I don't think it's funny that he thinks you went out on a date. That is the last thing I would want him to think. Like I said there is nothing wrong with you trying to work on yourself if that is making you feel any better. But that is also very superficial and shouldn't even matter and come into play. This is about you, the real you, the person that you are, and doesnt' matter what you wear or how your hair is or how many pounds you put on. You are still beautiful on the inside and that is what matters.

So once again, I'll be different and say I hope you can save your marriage and that he can see a doctor for a possible male menapause imbalance and whatever else is bothering him. I do wish you the best of the best.

 

[lvponies]

Marty,

Right now Allen doesn't have any interest at all in trying to work on or save our marriage. He has says he doesn't love me and that he had planned on leaving anyway when the kids are grown. All I've been trying to do is spark just a little interest so he's well aware of what he wants to throw away. If I get him thinking of me in a more positive light, then maybe I can reach him and then work on our marriage. I don't believe there is any point whatsoever in trying to hang on to someone who has made it very clear that they don't want me. I need him to change his thought processes and see that maybe, just maybe he might want me after all. Until I can get through to that part of his brain that remembers that he loves me, there is nothing to work on. Meanwhile.....without any pressure on him, I am subtly working on our marriage. Maybe these things are stupid and won't have any affect at all, but at this time, knowing this man, I need to play a few mind games. I have made it very clear to him that I have absolutely no desire to end this marriage and that I love him with my whole heart. His answer to me is, that he can't force himself to feel something for me if he doesn't. I am banging my head against a brick wall and all I'm trying to do is make a few cracks in his resistance. If putting on makeup, nice clothes, watching what I eat helps, create those cracks then I'll do it. I love Allen more then anything, but I can't in anyway Make him love me. All I can do is try to stir some of his memories of when he loved me. I am doing what I think will work with this man. If it doesn't, then all I can say is that I tried my very hardest. If it does work, then believe you me, we will be having conversations and working on our marriage in any way that we can. First....I have to get his attention. I have to smack him upside the head and remind him of what he will be losing. Make him think that it won't be as easy as he thinks to walk away from me. He is as stubborn as a bull, but then so am I. We are both Taurus'!! He is also very smart. It won't do any good to beg and plead for him to stay. He Knows I want him to stay and still he plans on leaving. I have to give him a reason to even think about staying.

This whole thing is killing me. Tearing me up inside. Imagine what it must feel like to have the man you love tell you that he's not in love with you, has never been in love with you and is miserable with you. Imagine that pain!!! He's not saying....hon we have some problems, let's work on them. He is saying......I don't want you Kim, I don't need you Kim, I'm leaving you Kim. So.....if what I'm doing doesn't work, then I tried. At least when he's gone, I can console myself with that. At least I tried something.

 

[RJRMINIS]

Kim,

I am very proud of you! I am glad you are doing what you feel is best! I hope it wakes him up, but if it doesn't I think it is helping you to see, yes there can be life without him!

Hang in there!!!!

 

[Just Us N Texas]

You see, what Marty and what I tried to explain to you earlier, is that you both need to see a counsellor! If he is depressed due to male menopause, or the heart attack, he can have these thoughts! His defense mechanism will make him tell you that they started long ago, not recently. You need to make an appointment with your doctor ASAP, and discuss these developments with him/her together, then you need to see a counselor ASAP after that. You certainly know your husband, but, depression and male menopause need to be addressed medically. Did I mention ASAP? If you also see the counselor, it will help you understand all the feelings you're having, and help you cope with what is going on.

Marty nor I (I am sure) do not pretend to be counsellors, but we're a little older and been through the grind of life a little longer. We are trying to advise you with the wisdom of age and experience.

I am certainly happy that you have addressed some things that will make you a happier person, and feel better about yourself. While my first husband was dieing of Cancer, I picked up some booklets from Dr.'s offices about how to help the patient and their family cope. One of the first things in those booklets was to keep yourself looking the best you can. When you do that, you will feel much better about yourself.

Please, even if your husband won't go to a counsellor with you, make an appointment at the soonest possible time, and go by yourself.

 

[Whitestar]

One of the things that I see over & over in your posts is the you keep saying "what he chooses". I hope that you will think about what you deserve. Although I am very much all for keeping a family together & working like heck to keep a marriage intack, it does take two to work. If you are doing all the work, are you really going to be happy? What is it doing to your self esteem? I bet you felt alot better about yourself until he came in & knocked you down. Dont put all your self esteem into one man. You have to feel good about yourself & find happiness in yourself & it in turn will shine to the outside world. Dont give others the power to make you feel so inferior, dont you deserve someone that wants to be with you, that wants to love you, that wants to do things for you, that wants to hold your hand or worry about you? Every woman does, just as every man does. I still think that he is suffering from depression, but having said that just as you cant not drag a horse to water & make it drink, you can not convince someone they need help unless they are willing to make a change. I am not saying that you should go out & divorce this man, but I am saying that you need to sit down & have a heart to heat talk with him. You need to tell him that you want a future with him, but it is not something that he is willing to work on then you will be moving on. You need to make him realize that he does not have all the power in this relationship. That he is not the one making all the decisions on who stays & who goes, who loves & who does not. You deserve more than sitting home waiting for a man that does not love you & unless he is willing to actually work on the relationship in the next 6 months then I would say you need to make some decisions. LIfe is way too short to spend it like this. I have been through this on my first marriage & you know what, life seems like it sucks, but you find a much stronger & better person inside, someone that does not need someone else to make you happy, but can find someone else to add to that happiness. My second marriage is 16 years & going strong & we are more in love every day.

 

[Sonya]

I agree with others who mentioned couseling...but if has no interest in going, then you can't make him...Just work on making YOU happy...that is what is important here....you.

 

[The Simple Life Farm]

Kim,

You haven't posted on this in a few days, how are things going? I have been thinking about you. Let us know.

Kelly

 

[Reijel's Mom]

It sounds to me like you are on the right path! Take care of yourself and possibly/hopefully, the rest will follow. I don't disagree that your husband might benefit from an evaluation/counseling, but if he's not interested in it trying to get him to do it is only going to push him further away from you, as will trying to "force" yourself on to him.

You didn't tell him you were going on a date the other night, that was his assumption and your own daughter told him that wasn't the case. I think if you'd lied and told him you had a date that would be unfair, but I think you are in the right not to have to tell him everything you are doing nowadays!

My 2 cents - just continue to be honest with him like it sounds you have been - that you love him very much and want the marriage to work but in the meantime you've decided that you need to take a little better care of YOU. There is nothing wrong with that for any of us! And he doesn't need to know all the details of what that means exactly unless he asks and you choose to share with him.

Good luck - we're all cheering for you!