Trained VS Breeding Horse Sales

[JMS Miniatures]

I haven't bred anybody for a few years now, and trust me its been a load off my shoulders, but wouldn't mind breeding 1 or 2 every few other years or so lol. But was just thinking what do you paticularly think sells better. In the big horse world well trained horses can sell $5,000 easily and if they have a show record its doubled that if not trippled or more, geldings are also very popular.

Minis its hard to sell trained geldings even some with a show record, but it seems like the miniature horse is such a breeding industry people are willing to pay more for your average stallion or broodmare then a trained gelding. BUT, with fewer people breeding and more showing instead do you think the price of training will go up or will it stay the same? Is it even worth putting that time and training into that horse and not get much for it? And I'm not talking about your below average mini that just wouldn't be able to show I'm talking about horses that are trained that can go out and show in paticular geldings.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

We really, really debated gelding our one stallion who drives, does halter and a ton of other things, as we aren't using him on our mares right now, but it's a shame, he is worth more as a stallion than a gelding! His temperment is fine, so no worries there, but really....

 

[Riverrose28]

Looks like some have voted, but, didn't respond their reasons why. I am curious as to why they voted the way they did. On that note, I'll respond but not vote.

As someone that used to breed, havn't in a couple of years, has always shown and trained, big horses and little guys, I think it depends on what the buyer is looking for. Also in my opinion any horse that is being offered for sale should have some training. It is also my opinion that stallions should be trained and shown before breeding, and therefore it will increase their monetary value. Mares should also be shown, but I can see were having a few mares at one time on the farm that it can be hard to show them all, but if you show a few you are promoting your breeding program. Also brood mare depreciate over the years, but if you can show then breed, then sell, you will get a better price then a mare that was just used as a broody. All foals that are sold she have some training. I sold a weanling just last year and asked the new owner if I could keep her for another month just to fine tune her before turning her over to her new Mom. I had already taught her to lead, whoa, trot, have her feet done, to be bathed and clipped, but hadn't taught her to load or cross tie. When she went to her new Mom she did it all.

So to answer your question, I think trained horses sell better. It is a shame about geldings though in the mini world. When we went to buy a horse for my young Grandson we wanted a well trained already winning in the ring gelding. We bought one and didn't haggle over price. This gelding was worth it to us. Some thought we were nuts. On the other hand I just sold a gelding this year, show and driving quality for less then it cost me to have him gelded, but the buyer is going to train him to drive and I hope to see him in the ring in the future with my farm name.

 

[ohmt]

There was an auction put on very recently with a lot of mares, all broodmares AND trained to drive. The prices were very poor on most. The dwarf mare on it and donkeys sold for more than most of those mares. Very sad that more miniature horse people don't put a higher value on a well trained horse than a dwarf.

 

[Riverrose28]

There was an auction put on very recently with a lot of mares, all broodmares AND trained to drive. The prices were very poor on most. The dwarf mare on it and donkeys sold for more than most of those mares. Very sad that more miniature horse people don't put a higher value on a well trained horse than a dwarf.

I so agree wtih you, but then again it is what the buyer is wanting, and lack of education.

We took four horses to auction this fall, simply because they weren't selling being advertised. We sold all for way less then what they were worth, one was a Rmbling Starbuck son, gelded and trained for the show ring, and a red dun with dark dorsal strip. I just knew we would make some money for him, but sold at a lose. To make a long story short, I waited at the stalls so I could meet and talk to the buyers, it was snowing and I was soaked to the skin and freezing, but I waited for over an hour an a half, I got to speak to all the buyers but the one that bought Rambler. My husband dragged me out of the barn, and I cryed for an hour. Well two nights ago I got a phone call, from non other then the guy that bought Rambler. He swelled my head about how good Rambler was, trained to come when called, stood perfect in the cross ties, etc, etc. When I got off the phone, I broke down. At least this nice man had the decency to call me and put my mind at ease.

 

[Jill]

Reading over the years how many miniatures are trained by people who do not know what they are doing (examples shared here and elsewhere), I would nearly always pick an untrained horse over a trained one unless it had a long and well documented performance record. The way some "train" driving horses just makes me cringe and I feel it's an accident waiting to happen. Also, while this may not be a popular opinion with performance people, a well made horse can be trained (and bred), and I wouldn't choose an ugly horse even if he/she was trained to the 9's. You can put training on most horses, but you can't make them better quality.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Reading over the years how many miniatures are trained by people who do not know what they are doing (examples shared here and elsewhere), I would nearly always pick an untrained horse over a trained one unless it had a long and well documented performance record. The way some "train" driving horses just makes me cringe and I feel it's an accident waiting to happen. Also, while this may not be a popular opinion with performance people, a well made horse can be trained (and bred), and I wouldn't choose an ugly horse even if he/she was trained to the 9's. You can put training on most horses, but you can't make them better quality.

I agree that quality should always sell better over one thats below average thats trained really well that can go out and trail ride but won't do well in the show ring, perhaps can do well in obstacle, but thats about it. I've seen plenty of those. I was really asking more of those that can go out and can be competitive in the ring.

Another reason I ask this question also is performance classes are getting huge and are bigger then halter. So you would think your well trained performance minis would sell better. But I just don't see it. I feel like the miniatures are so much opposite from the big horses and really isn't in a good way.

Riverrose I agree I think all foals should have a foundation when it comes to their training, quite a bit of breeders don't train them, but they should know the basics.

 

[Riverrose28]

Reading over the years how many miniatures are trained by people who do not know what they are doing (examples shared here and elsewhere), I would nearly always pick an untrained horse over a trained one unless it had a long and well documented performance record. The way some "train" driving horses just makes me cringe and I feel it's an accident waiting to happen. Also, while this may not be a popular opinion with performance people, a well made horse can be trained (and bred), and I wouldn't choose an ugly horse even if he/she was trained to the 9's. You can put training on most horses, but you can't make them better quality.

The first part of your post is so right on, I once went to a Dell Tera sale, many years ago, old time breeders we are. We bought several horses that had no training what so ever, most had to be drug into the auction arena by three people. We trained and showed, they were show quality but young. They all became Champions. When I buy stock I like to buy young and if untrained I'll do it as I know how, but some don't. So therefore I train all that leave here.

AS for ugly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In my opinion I've never bought an ugly horse, but if someone else does it's not up to me to tell them that, trained or otherwise. I also don't train to drive, I would leave that up to an experienced driving trainer. Again it comes down to education and what the buyer wants in a horse.

 

[Leeana]

Depends on who is buying I think..

 

[mydaddysjag]

Myself, I prefer geldings who are already trained. When I purchase foals, I prefer them to already be solid trained to halter, lead, have their feet done, tie, and allow you to touch them. It AMAZES me at the different standards some seem to hold miniatures training at when compared to big horses. For example

Horses they say are trained to tie, when they mean that the horse has been tied up, and literally thats it, and the horse fights being tied. A big horse trained to tie means that you can tie it, and it will stand quietly.

Halters and leads. Pretty simple, you should be able to walk up to the horse, put its halter on, connect the lead rope, and the horse walk with you. You shouldn't have to bribe it into a stall with grain, then have a 15 minute rodeo in a stall just to get a halter on. Leading, simply, the horse walks when you walk, and doesn't try to bolt off. A whoa is nice too.

Loads and hauls, seems with miniatures that means you can get them on the trailer with a lot of muscle, or even having to pick them up. A big horse who loads walks right on, no fight.

Picks up feet. Yea, that SHOULD mean for more than 30 seconds, and if you say they are ok for the farrier, that does not mean tieing them short to the wall and the farrier having to hang on for dear life.

Well mannered should mean that the horse allows you to at least touch it.

Maybe im still nieve because I came from big horses about 6 years ago, but I always expect my horses to have at least basic manners. Babies dont have to be perfect, but at least a foundation is nice.

So yes, I would pay more for a "trained" horse, and seek them out. Even if trained simply means that the horse knows basic manners, HONESTLY halters, leads, ties, and holds its feet for the farrier.

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

I don't know what sells better but I will take a well trained horse (at least one that is winning shows) over a big name bloodline horse. If a horse can be hard shipped into a registry and will win is much more valuable than one that has great breeding, but crooked legs and a bad attitude.

This is the question right?

 

[Minimor]

From what I have seen, I have to say that I think overall breeding horses sell better--good breeding stallions, good broodmares, good quality show prospects are more in demand than trained horses. Over the years I've seen so many well trained driving horses sell for $400 and $500; I remember seeing an ad one time for a driving horse for $800 and thought that was doing a little better--then I read the ad itself & saw that the $800 price tag included the horse's cart. So no, after all that horse wasn't "worth" any more than the others that were advertised for $400-$500. It's a shame, because in my view a good, trained driving horse should be worth at least $1500.

For myself...I prefer to buy an untrained youngster. I can do the harness training myself so it isn't worth it to me to pay extra money for an already trained horse. I much prefer to do my own training, as that way the horse is trained exactly as I want, I don't have anyone else's problems to overcome.

 

[targetsmom]

Well, I have no idea what SELLS better, but I know what I want and have bought. I prefer them NOT trained for anything special, because I want to do that myself. I know too many people who have bought trained driving horses that they can't drive. We bought many of ours as weanlings with virtually no training and that was fine. Any weanlings we SELL will have basic training, lead, tie, stand for farrier, and even some obstacle training. We also train ours to stand for having their feet cleaned without being haltered or tied - it is so much easier to keep up with their feet that way! We even have the broodmares trained for obstacles so we can use them for 4-H and school demonstrations. But even horses with that basic training, no matter how old they are, will still need to learn the "language" and preferences of a new owner. I don't think any buyer should expect a horse that will do everything they ask, the first time they ask it.

 

[Versatility Farm & Training]

I read this poll as trained=for show purposes as in for halter, driving, jumping, etc., not trained=manners. To me manners=handled.

Speaking from a seller's perspective, in my experience the trained horses have sold better. Some of them have been trained &/or shown and are now breeding horses. In the past 2 years I have sold (off the farm) 2 as yearlings, that weren't shown or trained other than halter/lead broke, and 3 that were trained and shown in performance, one started in training, and another that had been trained and shown in halter. I have more people contacting me looking for horse that are at least trained, if not shown also, that can go into the show ring "now" than anyone looking for breeding stock. Of the 2 yearlings, one was intended to show before becoming a broodmare. And on the trained horse aspect, I have more people wanting a performance horse, or all around horse than a halter horse, and I don't blame them, I would too LOL! I am trying to breed for the all around horse. Beauty and athletic. That's just my experience and why I voted the way I did.

 

[Sandee]

I suppose "trained" could mean different things to different people. I wouldn't buy any horse regardless of bloodline etc. if you couldn't catch or handle him. I do think it's shameful that show-trained geldings (or any other sex) do not bring better $ than bloodline breeders. For me I like to show and I don't breed so that's just backwards. However, it has allowed me to purchase a couple of really nice show horses for less $. So I've been very blessed in having 2 driving horses here that I drove to National Champions.

 

[valshingle]

I think a trained for show horse sells better than an untrained horse, HOWEVER, you probably won't recoup the money spent on that training in the sales price.

 

[Tremor]

In my area people mostly buy breeding horses. They want those grade minis to breed so that their kids can experience life and most likely death. My parents were those people, except we somehow were awesome enough to buy registered show horses. The first intent was to buy show horses for me but then we bought the stud. And then its history.

Personally, I would buy for breeding before trained. If I buy something for breeding purposes then I know that it has that conformation for what I need because I am one heck of a picky person. The mare/colt can later be trained for whatever. I'm doing that right now for my mare.

If the buyer were to ask me what my intentions were I would be up front. I would like to breed the horse, in the future, and am interested in training and show it. Nothing against that.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I think a trained for show horse sells better than an untrained horse, HOWEVER, you probably won't recoup the money spent on that training in the sales price.

Well thats what I figured. I wasn't real surprized by this poll, but honestly I'm glad to see it even up some. I asked this same question on another horse forum whether or not big horses sale better if they are trained for like trail rides, open shows, etc... or show purposes for breed shows, or breeding, and trained horses won hands down with a couple of votes for show purposes and no votes for breeding. I think its kind of sad that we are so opposite.

 

[Genie]

With the market today it would seem that spending zxzxzxzx $'s in training will give you a negative result when the time comes to sell that horse.

Today I think you might end up with a small $$ result on the positive side if you are a breeder with good stock.

If you are looking to make a small fortune in miniature horses you need to start with a large fortune

 

[disneyhorse]

Personally, I usually sell horses well who are BOTH good breeding material AND are trained for halter and, if old enough, driving.

A good gelding needs to be trained to sell, and these I usually sell to ammy/ youth homes or to people who like to show competitively.

Bottom line is only QUALITY will sell well, no matter what the horses strong suits are.

Andrea