True Arabian blood in minis???

[Becky]

There is another breeder who advertises her horses coming from Arabian lines, so I don't think this whole thread may be about the one person some think it is. Just food for thought.....

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Oh..I didn't know that

not sure if the post is about them or me or both but that does make me feel a little better...

It really was an honest mistake, I got caught up in my own hype and i'll stop if it really is that wrong...so I HOPE if this thread isn't about me, if people weren't checking MY website and making comments about ME please let me know and i'll change my posts...otherwise, I still stand!

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I was told years ago by a big breeder that Gold Melody Boy was 1/4 Arab. I don't know if it's true or not but I find it interesting and will stay open minded enough that anything is possible with these miniatures.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I was just asking a question that was asked of me had no idea who or what farms were involved at all

 

[horsehug]

Steffanie,

You know I don't think you are a bad person

I always admire your persistence and perseverance in researching little horses to the max!

If I am ever looking for something in particular I'll ask for your help for sure!

Susan O.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Awww Susan thanks!

I'll just explain my background of what I heard, and no i'm not sure if it's true but this sure was exciting for me to read about!

I heard that Mr. Jandt had found a couple of mares who were "supposedly" bred down from arabians, or could have been very small arabian mares. He crossed the mares into his herd and I "assumed" he would hardship them into the registries.

What I would like to know is more about the two mares...Jandts Fantacy of Owatanna most especially! I am wondering if the other Jandts horses with "Owatanna" are in relation to this mare and if so, they to me would be the ones in the Jandts lines that were Arabian horse related. Again, this is all an "assumption" not fact!

I got excited to see Jandts Tonka Joy of Owatanna is Riley's great great grand-dam. He is a grandson of Jandts Bay N Bee also which I think is cool!

So yes, I have been advertising him as being from arabian bloodlines but I see now I should really get the facts first...I am sorry, I got caught up in my own excitement over him!

 

[Minimor]

Fantasy is one that I've been told is the bred down Arabian line--I don't know which other ones of Joe's are from that program.

Tonka Joy is the little mare the magician brought from Europe--as far as I know she isn't of arabian breeding. If there is any Arabian in her, she is not from the same lines or program as Fantasy

 

[Mona]

I think all Owatona is, is a part of the registering name for him, because he lives in Owatona, MN.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I thought GMB was an American Shetland???

 

[Leeana]

GMB was an american shetland and if you look at his pedigree (extended pedigree) it is obvious he has no arabian breeding. American shetlands are a bloodline breed, now unless there was some hanky panky in the pedigree im willing to garentee you GMB was full american shetland.

 

[Manyspots]

Seems like there are some interesting pedigrees for sure in many of the miniatures. I wouldn't be surprised to find Arabian bloodline in some either. I do not own any of the Jandt bloodline horses but there are some beauties that I have seen. Just this year at the AMHR Nationals I spoke with a man that has the "B" over minis and he said he uses small arabs to cross with. I know of Hackneys and shetlands crossing with the "B" over minis also. Probably a lot of this is breedings out in the "back 40" I imagine. I am not surprised at any thing any more I guess! Lavonne

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

GMB was an american shetland and if you look at his pedigree (extended pedigree) it is obvious he has no arabian breeding. American shetlands are a bloodline breed, now unless there was some hanky panky in the pedigree im willing to garentee you GMB was full american shetland.

I know exactly who GMB is, as my breeding program is based on the GMB and Rowdy bloodlines. And as far as the shetlands go, we all know that NO hanky panky went on in the shetlands, right.

 

[nightflight]

....so that would bring about the question of what exactly could be found in a pure american shetland?

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Nightflight, in a "PURE" American Shetland you should find just that, pure shetland blood. But for the hanky panky that went on, I think you could find Welsh, Hackney, and God only knows what else.

 

[Danielle_E.]

This is an interesting thread. I have a question for all of you that think that "arabians" may have been used in breeding minis. How many generations back would you think that the "arabian" look would be perpetuated if something like this had been done. Being that I have arabians and many others I base what I look at in my straight egyptian mare basically by looking at 3 generations back. Unless there is alot of linebreeding or inbreeding in a "pure breed" my personal opinion would be IF arabians were used by the time you got the size down to be AMHA or AMHR you would have lost the "look".

 

[ruffian]

"IF arabians were used by the time you got the size down to be AMHA or AMHR you would have lost the "look"."

Arabians are used on lots of crosses, and keep the look in many cases. Why not minis? They are a very prepotent breed.

 

[Danielle_E.]

How many generations? is what I am asking what people think. Obviously breeding a mini to an arabian, the result would not be a mini. You would have to take that offspring and breed to another mini, and so on and so on. What I am saying is by the time you got the size down you would have totally lost the "look" you were after by using an "arabian". I can see using welsh and hackneys and shetlands, it would be quicker to get the size down but not arabians in the sense for it to make any difference in the "look" by the time you eventually would get down to under 38 inches.

Lets say for arguments sake you take a 14.1 hand mare and breed her to a mini stallion. The result would be an arabian pony type, probably around 12.5 or 13 hands in height. You would then have to take that pony mare and breed down again. Would you breed her to a mini stud again? If yes then you might get something around 11.5 or 12 hands. You would have to then breed that mare down again with a mini and your chances of getting under 38 is probably quite slim still. So you take that offspring and breed down again, so we are at 4th generation. To me you would have dilluted the pedigree by quite a bit. One part arabian (pure) x mini , half-arab x mini, etc.etc. You would have better success in using hackney or shetland blood.

 

[Leeana]

Ruffian,

You have me very confused. Its fine to allow outcrossing to arabian but you are agianst shetland influence?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have done this.

I put Rabbits sire on my Arab mare.

The "look" was lost , really, in one go - I have done the same sort of breeding with a Welsh Sec A and got an animal that looked purebred Arab and considering one of the "typyist" mares I have ever seen stood 13.3hh - not far off the size either.

Oliver is a lovely, lovely chap- the best of both worlds, but he is a real "Pony"- only his temperament (faultless) gives away his breeding.

That and his length of stride!

So, given the type of Minis around at the time we are speaking about, I would suggest the look was lost in one generation, leaving just the height.

As I have said many times, this goes down very quickly in the first generation, then it really does not seem to go down much more- of course I have only done the cross (Large to Little, not Arab X Mini) around ten/fifteen times so I might be wrong......

 

[Shari]

I have traced my mini's all the way back and they are pure shetland..abit... much more refined.

Have also done this for a couple other people. Shetland's pure and simple.

Unless you have the Shetland/Hackney lines that are small enough to register with the mini registries.

I would believe someone would be more able to breed down a small Caspian... than from Arabs.

So much "miss" information out there is scary.

Even had people yell at me that mini's had no shetland blood...

... I say prove it... and I get all kind of excuses why not...but no proof. I aksed them about their "mini" horse's winter coat and say.. if they are purebred miniature horses... why do they have a pony's winter coat...why aren't they like say.. TB's, Arabs and the like? Should see the looks I got. OH!

So my mini's are Reg as "mini horses" but I know they are Shetland ponies and there is nothing wrong with that.

One thing I will not do.... is say something they are not!

Breeding down...(if it is not enviroment..ie like the real Shetland Island's and how harsh it is there)..... from a full sized horse is very, very hard to do and will take a life time or more. Mini's haven't been around that long, so they had to start small...to start with. Even a rare Sport will not breed true.

Pat Parelli...went on national TV with his mini's... and said they were really miniature horse's NOT pony's.

OH! That's really helpful and not the truth. Sigh ~~~ And people will believe him.