Twisted cords

[gatorbait4sure]

I have a friend who's colt was just delivered dead with a twisted cord. The mare had another foal with the same trouble ( two babies ago) but was born alive and healthy.

Do any of you know if some mares have a tendency of having foals with twisted cords? If so , WHY?

 

[Genie]

I am interested in knowing people's thought on this as well.

I have had a couple of live foals born that the cords seemed to be severly twisted.

Also had a mare abort a few years ago and the foal was dead with the badly twisted cord. Was just a couple of weeks early.

I have wondered if the mares rolling is the cause? They sometimes do excessive amounts of rolling and I get a bit worried.

 

[Joanne]

We have had one mare loose a foal several years ago that had a twisted cord. It was a maiden mare.

She has never repeated that. The foal was VERY active a couple of dayes before she aborted. I think it had just twisted it self up and was franticly trying to unwind. It was born dead.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I was saying on another thread that !twisted cord" is so oftne given as a cause of death, when I do not actually think that it is.

Think about it, if the cord twisted and killed the foetus, almost all pregnancies would end in death!

I think the cord twists, and untwists all the time.

I think it is often just coincidence when the foal has a twisted cord at birth, if it is dead, then that is a good reason for the Vet to give, and they do love being able to give a reason, but I really do think it is pretty much an urban myth.

It could be that the foal, once dead, neither aids not inhibits the twisting of the umbilicus, thus a dead foal is produced with the cord twisted.

A long time a go my Vet put forward the theory that some lines might just throw up too long a cord, genetically, and that would aid the twisting of the cord if the foal was smaller than usual.

I had one mare lose her foal twice at the same point, both time the foetus was delivered with a very twisted cord but, as my Vet pointed out, the mare had been thrashing around a lot, and with the foal dead inside her, it was very likely that the twisting occurred then, rather than being the cause of death.

 

[AnnaC]

That's interesting Jane and food for thought.

About 7 yers ago we had a catastrophic series of foalings. About 6 weeks early I found a maiden mare on my early morning check, who had obviously been unsuccessfully in labour/aborting for some time. Vet came and removed a dead foal, the cord twisted in real knots (foal having died allowed the cord to twist??). The mare was exhausted but recovered and has since produced 3 more foals successfully for us. Three days later the same thing happened with another mare, but we got to her sooner - middle of the day - so less stress for her, but another dead foal with a tight twisted cord. Next came two mares with red bag deliveries, the first with a foal that was dead and required removing, (this cord was also badly twisted) but the mare was fine and had another couple of normal deliveries before being retired. The second had a filly that only lived for about half an hour, in spite of our efforts (this cord was normal)

The next mare to foal had a normal foaling, but through my fault I lost the colt! In the excitement of having a live foal I did what we normally do and left the foal for a short while with its hindlegs still just inside the mare, with the mare resting happily. I left the mare's tail covering the foals back legs while I cleaned his face and gave his front end a rub off. When the mare went to get up, she moved her tail and I could then see that the cord was badly twisted and also wrapped tightly twice around one of the colts hind legs just above his hock. Witnin an hour or so it was obvious that he wasn't quite 'right' and he passed away peacefully the next day. Such a silly mistake on my part. A failure to check on 'everything' in the excitement of having a live foal, meant that this little chap lost his life - although the fact that the cord was already quite twisted in itself may have meant that he was already lacking in oxygen throughout his birth process, or even a little while before as he was born a week early??

With the second mare referred to above, where she had to have an early dead foal removed, my vet said that had the foal been bigger and there had been less space for it to move about, then the cord might not have twisted??

I know we will never have all the answers in this breeding game, half the time we are on the knife edge of life over death. But we can only do our best, learn from our mistakes and gain as much knowledge as we can from those who have more experience.

So, can cords twist and cause the death of a foal, or does the death of the foal allow the cord to twist? I'm sorry but I simply dont have the answer!

Anna

 

[wildoak]

Interesting thought, certainly might be possible. We've lost three I can recall who were born early and with a twisted cord. All were colts and all were by the same stallion, 2 from one mare - just coincidence, or is there any significance to that? Both mares have had live healthy fillies by him and he has sired healthy colts with other mares.

AnnaC, what a terrible year to endure! Hope your luck has improved since then.

Jan

 

[MountainMeadows]

My theory is that the FOAL is in distress and it turns and flips as a horse will do when colicing - I don't know if this is the case, but an old time vet believed it to be the case and it has made sense to me. Anyone who has seen a newborn with gas colic knows what they go thru - it is really distressing to watch them flop all over and if this was happening inside the mare I can easily believe the cord would be badly, badly twisted and one thing would then lead to another. Funny, it seems to happen a lot more in minis than in full size horses - wonder if it has something to do with the "breeding down" issue?

Stac

 

[tmminis]

I lost a foal too,from a twisted cord, had to have the vet deliver it, he told me that its just one of those things, nothing that the mare or us had done wrong. Luckily the mare is fine and can be bred again, still upsetting to lose those babies. Mine was a filly.

 

[AnnaC]

Thanks Jan - yes all went well from then on with 6 more normal deliveries of healthy foals, but I was there on my knees, praying, as the next mare foaled! Just wanted to add that all the foals with the twisted cords were colts? And they were all the first foals by my Falabella stallion. I was beginning to think he was to blame, but life has since proved that possibility totally wrong.

It is an interesting subject.

Anna

 

[mizbeth]

I have asked this question too and the Vet told me that is it caused from the mare being in labor. So in essence similar to what Jane is saying. I do believe it probably does twist and untwist all the time. I watch my mares roll and obvisouly are positioning their foals prior to foaling perhaps causing them to turn/twist.

Something I find interesting however is that Veternarian Medicine still seems "new" in its diagnosis and evaluations of horses. Not all of course, but certainly many of them but I assume because we all don't use the Vet colleges or large clinics for equine health care?

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Well, I am lucky there as my Vets are the Royal Veterinary College, which is just up the road to me, and the Vet of choice trained on Miniatures....cannot get a lot better as all the Vets in the College are now prepped on what NOT to do with a mini, which at least means I get correct amounts of medication as norm, and no Bute suggested anymore!!

Because it is a teaching practise they a re also very accepting of client input.

I am almost certain that is this is a "chicken and egg" situation.

Just as some of the foals born in the bag are certainly savable, I am also certain that a lot found in the bag were dead at birth.

So, I think, a lot of foals born with twisted cords were dead before this happened, but, equally, a small number were alive at the start.

Anna, to address your colt, I do actually think he would have died whatever you had done. Once the foal has it's head free and can inflate it's lungs, although it should be left to get all the blood it can from the umbilicus, it is not essential and cutting off the umbilicus at this point, or the blood flow from it, should not be life threatening to the foal. Sometimes it is essential to do this, in fact, as with BHs particularly, if the foal in an awkward place you cannot just hoik them out of the way as you can a mini, so you have to get the foal out to avoid it being injured.

 

[kaykay]

We have had 2 dead foals over the years with very twisted cords. I do think the twist causes their death. To me it has to cut the oxygen level down if not completely. This also happens in humans. My older sister was born oxygen deprived from a twisted cord. Thankfully she was/is okay but I remember my mom telling me how she was born blue and the Dr said the cord was so twisted it had deprived her of oxygen

Something to think about though

 

[Ellen]

I know that it can sometimes depend on how the cord is twisted and can depend on th amount of amniotic fluid in the womb. Too much, or too little can cause problems. And can put undo pressure on the cord in utero. But I am certain these are just two of many different senarios. When there is too much fluid, the cord can be delivered first causing all kinds of trouble. There is just no way to know.

 

[Deb E]

A severely twisted umbilical cord cannot deliver the needed oxygen to a foal. The foal dies and then is aborted. I lost a foal last night at 300 days with an extremely twisted and bulging cord. I am finding breeding minis to be very heartbreaking. Not sure I will continue to breed.

 

[Miniv]

Personally, I think what CAUSES the twisted cord can be different things........ Sometimes the foal has a longer cord and is active, so gets the cord twisted up. There are also situations where there is an infection inutero which causes the foal to stress and flip around.....this would twist the cord too.

Sort of the chicken or the egg situation, as Jane mentioned.

 

[Deb E]

I don't know if I can deal with breeding minis. Have had two births and only one live foal. The other had placenta previa. Thank goodness I listened to the preaching and preaching from Robin and Marrianne at LKF about watching the mares early. She was only at 300 days, but we had our cameras up and eyes on her. If not, we would have woke up this morning to a dead foal AND mare.