Uncatchable mare

[AngC]

short video i know but shes never followed me before lol

I've been watching this topic with interest. Unfortunately your link didn't work.

 

[AngC]

... I bump him with the halter to try to move him around to face me.

Every now and then I read something on this forum that causes a light bulb to light in my pee-wee brain. The suggestion to have the horse face you is something I haven't tried too often. I'm not too sure how I'll do that with Coco. I've been luring her into the stall and then approach her from the rear (out of the kick zone) with my body on one side and I hang the halter on the other side of her body; then wait until she does that chewy (relaxing) thing with her teeth; then loop the lead around her neck and halter her. Coco really is a bit of a spook so I don't want to "bump" her to face me. But I think there's something in this idea that I can use. I tried for a couple hours today; instead of haltering her, I sat in the stall with that "evil" halter and simply waited until she turned around to face me. It took awhile. I didn't try to halter her; I just waited until she got bored and faced me; then she got a bit of hay. I don't know; someday I may get somewhere with this.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

I did not bump her but I did get up to her back end and reach forward and gently pulled her around towards me and then walked away when she stood. That must have been a light build moment for her cause the next few times she was sent out she did turn her head to me which she's never done before, and then the final time she turned her whole body in. Shame the video doesn't work. Here's a photo of it.

 

[chandab]

Video worked for me, what I saw wasn't long.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

No it's very short lol but she was walking behind me without a lead rope

 

[AngC]

hmmm, I think I figured out my problem with viewing your video. (I don't use Facebook and suspect I may have a port blocked that Facebook wants for its https---suck it Mr. Zuckerberg.)

Anyway, I'm looking at the photo you posted - Rocklone Miniature Horses - in my opinion, that seems like a large area to be dealing with a horse that has issues being contained/haltered. Perhaps, it's just the perspective in the photo. To me it looks like an arena; not sure what that black band in the background is, but it looks like it continues in a rather large circular shape. I don't mean to sound critical, but I know sometimes when I read things online, I totally botch the understanding part.

I've had some success with my haltering Coco campaign; however, if I had to work with her in that large of an area, we'd be back at Square One. We don't have a round pen; but initially my best progress started in about a 40 x 60 ft lot outside the girls' stall door.

I don't understand the advice from people about sending the horse away. How do you get the horse back? Coco doesn't like human contact, so rewarding her with some nice human scratching/petting has no appeal for her. So I could drive her away, but then what?

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

It's a round pen it's pretty standard round pen size too I think. It's not that large really haha you can literally see half of it in this photo.

Haltering has never been an issue for her, just getting to her has been and since doing this bit of work she has 100% been caught.

It works on an individual level but essentially you train them that if they don't want to be near you you won't let them stop moving. They can stop moving when they are near you (which is essentially a reward)

with this mare the only thing that really made her click was my calmness. I wasn't chasing her with my arms flapping screaming at her, I was simply just walking along level to her hip and any time she stopped I would squat down and if she turned and put two eyes on me I walked away to the other side of the pen and would then start to circle to her back end. She moves, I start over. She stands still, I would get to her and give her a scratch and gently guide her to stand facing me. then end the session. She has now of her own bat began turning in and following me rather than me having to go around the pen.

Does that make sense?

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Sending them away from you is because of what observers saw in a wild herd. The horse is a herd animal. He is not happy outside a herd. Moving away from you (his flight response)--away from his herd--is not really what he wants. When he learns what it is that makes him accepted in the herd, being touched/haltered, he wants to do it. The reward is coming back into his herd.

That is one reason some trainers no longer use the round pen. My extremely vintage corral has square corners, of course, and corners are supposed to be more desirable for training now (I am finally back in style!). According to recent theories, round without corners disorients the horse and makes him more fearful.

There are so many training ideas and techniques. We just keep trying to find the one that works for us and each horse.

And every horse teaches us something. Even when we fail in our goals with him, we have still learned many lessons.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

Fashions change all the time. I love my round pen though. Back in my day noone schooled just hacked and bombed around fields. Now I can barely get a lesson cause everyone's fully booked.

 

[AngC]

...Back in my day noone schooled just hacked and bombed around fields. Now I can barely get a lesson cause everyone's fully booked.

haha, I suspect I'm one of those hacker/bomber field-types.

I have no problem haltering Coco, either. I just can't do it out in the middle of the pasture. I have to point and tell her to go "INSIDE" and she will then stand in the stall for haltering. That is a definite improvement.

I'm mulling over what Marsha Cassandra said. I don't think I send them away, but I have done a lot of walking away and ignoring. Maybe that's a similar idea. Anyway, this was a great topic!!!

 

[wingnut]

I also have a 17 year old mare who I cannot simply walk up to and "catch" her. She has been with us for 6 years. She has not bonded with any of us humans in the family. She really isn't bonded in visible ways to the rest of the herd (4 other mares) but its there in its way.

What I learned was that I simply have to move her into a space where she has not other alternative but to stand still so I can take hold of her halter or put a halter on. I simply do not stop until I've caught her. That means either a corner of the dry lot/barn area or a stall. I *gently* and *calmly* "push" her into the space where I want her. Once there, she know the game is over and she waits calmly.

I do NOT bother trying this in our pasture. I will not catch her there and I will NOT attempt to catch her if I know I'm not likely to win.

I know I *could* spend hours upon hours upon hours trying to train her better, but this is my horse that has weight issues and I cannot risk her not eating or being stressed so that she loses weight. She and I know how to make this work for us so that's what we will continue to do.

She has gotten better in that the "chase" doesn't last nearly as long as it used to. I can generally catch her within just a couple of minutes now.

 

[AngC]

I do NOT bother trying this in our pasture. I will not catch her there and I will NOT attempt to catch her if I know I'm not likely to win.

... I can generally catch her within just a couple of minutes now.

Yeah, I tried catching Coco in the pasture--chasing her around. I had read that if you start you shouldn't stop. At the time, she was in an area of about 1/8 acre (or perhaps a bit more.) I spent hours, one time. I really think I did more harm than good. She won.

She didn't like humans when she got here; she especially did not like men. But she's coming around; I think she likes my husband better than me (especially since he doles out the treats more freely than I do.) But I've been doing silly little things like touching her a couple times a day. Just enough until she pulls away. ...that's where I started a few years ago, but the other day, I cuddled and rubbed her neck for a few minutes. Sounds silly, but that really was an accomplishment with her.

I don't know what is a reasonable time to capture a horse. I do think I've made progress, because the last farrier date, I got my days mixed up. Usually, I have them haltered and ready to go when he arrives here. So I had to get all three haltered and tied. It took me 8 minutes for all three. I actually was kind of proud of that, because whenever something "unusual" is happening--like a visitor---they gaffe me and want to check out what's going on.

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

My mare needs caught every day to keep her catchable. I missed a few days and she was back at square one again and i had to go through all this again. I know every home she has been in and know shes never been intentionally abused maybe just left out brooding not a lot done with her that way so shes just got into a habit of being a brood mare outside lol

 

[always learning]

Currently, I only have one to catch, but she can be difficult at times. I've had her since she was just over a year, and she's friendly, but when she's turned out she can be notional. Sometimes she'll walk right up to be caught, other times (usually when I'm time constricted, or not feeling quite 100%) she'll decide she's not ready to come in. Then it turns into a walk-down, which I never let her win. I never run at her, I just calmly walk the inner circle, while she runs the wider outer circle. As she gets tired, and realizes I'm not giving up, her distance from me gets closer while my circle gets smaller, then she'll walk up to me and let me snap on the lead rope. Yes, I know many others will object to me leaving the halter on when she's loose. But in my defense, the halter is well fitted with no room to catch a foot,the pastures are woven wire or stock panel, there are no trees or bushes inside (or junk) to get caught on, and I can see to the back fence.. And for shade, the only pasture that doesn't access the big back barn pen is small (takes about 5 min to walk across) and has a large calf hutch for shelter.

 

[AngC]

...I know many others will object to me leaving the halter on when she's loose....

If you feel comfortable, perhaps that's best. I left a halter on Nicky the first few nights he lived here. ...he removed it; but, luckily he removed it entirely without injury. That was my first clue that leaving halters on wasn't such a good thing.

But on the other hand, when our two girls started getting nasty, white stuff in their eyes, from the flies, because they kept peeling off their fly masks; I put halters atop their fly masks (daytime only, while I monitored outside--while weeding garden, etc.) Sometimes you do what you gotta' do.

Edited-to-add: And after just a couple "halter-on-top training sessions," they now keep their fly masks on. ...no more eye goop!