Urgent - mare acting strangely - EPM?

[Bluerocket]

Hello to all - could use your input and experience here.

I have a 30" mare about 8 years old. She has been quite overweight and has been on a pretty drastic diet compared to the other horses in my barn.

She goes out on pasture during the day and comes in at night. Pasture at this point is leaves and very very little grass - not quite a mud lot but not far off either.

I do feed a high quality Orchard Grass hay -- she is not fed much of that or of grain (Triple Crown Lite) when stalled - but she does get some.

She drinks plenty of water -- her stall today had a normal amount of wet bedding and manure for her.

I needed to catch one of the other mares and got all of them in the barn to catch that one.

This one (Star is her name) came in with the group. -- she did not seem her normal pushy self -- she ate fine this morning and seemed normal when turned out for the day.

At approximately 12:00 she was in the barn and wanted in her stall -- even though the others were crowding around some feed I had put out to entice them into the round pen.

Her stall had some hay in it (for dinner) and she ignored it -- she moved to the back of the stall and stood with her hindquarters on the back wall -- seemed to be balancing on it possibly -- both sides of her hindquarters are muddy and so is her tail - the rest of her body is NOT muddy (so not rolling over all) - she almost looks like she fell down and sat down.

Her gums seem normal -- pink and refill quickly -- her temperature is around 98 and I think that is in normal range for her. She has lipped at the hay but has not tried to eat it much (abnormal).

I gave her a bit of banamine paste in case she was a bit colicky -- Since she seemed to be quivering - I put a sheet and a blanket on her and she is in her stall (she has a very very heavy winter coat ).

My vet is off on vacation - tomorrow is his first day back.

Any ideas what this might be? I am thinking EPM as a possibility -- will go observe her some more -- just wanted to put this out there and see if you had any ideas of what I should be looking for.

I don't think this is an EMERGENCY -- but then again am not sure -- I can take her to the vet tomorrow morning -- and of course can continue to watch her today/tonight --- it is possible to take her into the equine emergency room -- - but she does not seem to be distressed -- just not normal.

Suggestions?

Here are her symptoms again:

Appetite depressed

Quivering

May have fallen down

balancing against the wall of her stall - or pushing against it

does not seem colicky

has had 1 gram of paste banamine

temp 98

respiration seems normal but I don't know what normal really is

has gut sounds

gums are pink and refill quickly

May be staggering -- will watch to see if I am imagining this...

I am going to logoff for a while because I will be in the barn -- thanks in advance for your input.

JJay

[SIZE=14pt]Edited on 1/26 -- see later posts in this thread -- she is better and may come home soon! This turns out to be gastro-intestinal and not at all related to EPM -- maybe Enteritis - but at least it is not salmonella either!!![/SIZE]

 

[Miniv]

Try walking her and if she's wobbly or staggering, call the vet.

If it is EPM it's not something you want wait around on, it needs aggressive treatment.

MA

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

FYI: Respiratory rate is 10-18 breaths

Watch her temp. 98 is a tiny bit low, but nothing I would say its an emergancy about, just watch it.

How are her stools right now?

Sorry the only advice I can give is to find another vet right now. Do you have an winter blanket for her?-

 

[hhpminis]

I agree, if she is staggering she needs to be seen ASAP.

If she fell and is sore somewhere you might try feeling up and down her back end to find a heated or sore spot. Her mud pattern is not a normal mud pattern like she had a good roll and I would think she either fell or slipped in the mud and possibly could have injured herself.

The shivering and low temp make me think something is wrong somewhere, my first guess would be a little shocky from something.

I think I would at least call the vet, he may have an emergency number on his answer machine or possibly could be back from vacation today just not in the office. I would want someones professional opinion on this.

Take her vitals, heart rate, respiration, temperature, etc and call someone.

 

[wishful]

This sounds like EPM. Dont wait!! take her to the equine hospital. A dear friend of mine dealt with this 1 1/2 weeks ago. The first thing her horse did was act strange, he become wobbly in the back end and finally he couldnt walk on his back legs unless we suppoted him. He never acted like he was in pain but was trembling from exhaustion were he had been tryiong to get up. It needs immediate and aggressive treatment.

 

[minifarmgirl]

This seems kind of frightening. What exactly is EPM? Aaaaaah, the opossum thing, OK. I have read about that. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[Bluerocket]

Thanks for your responses.

She is eating a little and has not yet defecated in the stall -- will check again at dinner time (about an hour or more from now).

She is no longer shivering (is wearing a sheet and a blanket)

Last I saw her she was lipping some hay -- and standing against the back wall of her stall.

When I go out to feed dinner I will take her out of the stall and walk her around to see how well she walks. Also will watch her eat dinner.

I will take her to the vet first thing tomorrow morning if she is not ok by then.

EPM is carried by birds and possum and also maybe racoon.- a neurological disease -- a google search of EPM Symptoms can tell you more.

I will let you all know how it goes with the vet in the am.

Thanks again.

JJay

 

[Walbon Acres]

I would not wait until tomorrow for your vet. I would definately call any vet that you can reach. It could be EPM or EHV1. If it is EPM or EHV1 (symtoms are similar) the sooner you get started on some treatment the better.

 

[Gizzmoe]

I agree if it were me i would be getting a vet out. My theory is if its something that you would want to worry about with a kid you worry the same with the horse. All my animals are well loved and if they are off in anyway they go to the vet for their own health. Never know when it could be signs of something very serious that needs prompt medical care.

 

[Charlotte]

I have had ulcer cases exhibit symptoms such as this....just a thought since she is on a restricted diet. I hope that is what it is cause it's easy to treat.

Good luck with your little one

Charlotte

 

[runamuk]

I have had ulcer cases exhibit symptoms such as this....just a thought since she is on a restricted diet. I hope that is what it is cause it's easy to treat.

Good luck with your little one

Charlotte

I was just going to say this sounds like the only 2 ulcer cases I have ever had.......the odd mud could be from dog sitting which would muddy up the butt and tail........drinking fine kinda eating but not really basically moping still pee'ing and pooping, good gut sounds, one of mine walked funny but not falling down.....and eventually he was laying in the stall with his feet in the air...he wasn't rolling that was how he seemed to feel comfortable.......

 

[js1arab]

Luckily I have not personally had to deal with it, but my first thought was also ulcers. When you talked about her hind end being all that was covered in mud and that she seemed to lean into the stall wall with her butt I was picturing her as "dog sitting" The say two common positions for a horse with ulcers is to sit like a dog or to lay flat on their back with their legs in the air. I hope that is all it is (but even that is serious -just more cureable) Good luck to you.

 

[mizbeth]

I would call the vet ASAP, and not wait.

Try giving her some kayro syrup. Could be her blood sugar has dropped from the dieting. These little guys it seems are pretty sensitive to that and most vets don't realize that. In fact I have noticed "we don't talk about" that much any more on the forum. Used to be a great topic. Kayro will also help increase their appetites.

Good luck!

Beth

 

[wishful]

How is your little mare this morning?

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Since you mentioned leaves, I must ask what type of leaves?? Many can be very dangeous, but you seem to know your stuff, so maybe you've already considered this? Hope she's better this a.m.

 

[Bluerocket]

Thanks for everyones' input.

I took Star to the Vet hospital this morning -- no word yet.

To catch you up on the symptoms:

1) walking fine - no longer quivering at all --- I removed the blankets last night and she promptly gave a little shake and layed down in the stall (not full out, but normal horse lying down kinda up on her chest). She did not try to roll. Just closed her eyes and slept.

2) This morning still only vaguely interested in her feed and hay, but not really eating any of it. This is NOT NORMAL -- she is a CHOW HOUND!

3) Over night she drank more than the normal amount of water for her

4) Since noon yesterday to this am, she hardly urinated at all -- the stall was CLEAN when I put her in there at noon yesterday and this morning at 5:45am she had only a tiny pee spot (normally at least 5x that amount when put in the stall at 6:00pm until 5:45am)!! and no fecal matter at all.

5) She is normally one of the 2 alpha mares in my herd of 6 -- but she could care less when I turned everone else out -- and left her in the stall -- she just was not interested.

She came back to normal attitude however when I started trying to load her on the trailer by myself -- I did get her on - but neither of us were happy about it. Took 30 minutes -- nothing violent -- but she and I are BOTH stubborn.

I took her in to the vet hospital - as my vet is still out of town and will not return until tomorrow --

They did some bloodwork on her and started her on IV for fluids -- she will have an ultrasound as wel.

I am thinking she has some blockage -- that she cannot pee --

Initial results from the bloodwork was that her white blood cells are quite low (about 1/2 as many as are considered to be normal). Something else was quite high -- (I don't recall what it was) but they said that could possibly be attributed to the stress of getting Loaded and hauled to the vet hospital.

When I left the hospital she was lying down in a lovely thick bed of straw -- and had already tested the water bucket and sniffed the hay. I should hear something again later this afternoon.

Its tough being here at work instead of there with her -- but she just seems "not normal" rather than distressed.

I will post again when I know something more.

Thanks again everyone.

JJay

 

[Jill]

Keeping your mare and you in my thoughts, Jjay.

The other thing that was elevated maybe was a muscle ensigm (sp?). I know the times I've had issues with horses, the lab results come back that this certain thing has been elevated, and have been told it could have been from rolling or other physical stress.

 

[Bluerocket]

Little Wee:

I am ashamed to say I have no idea what kind of leaves ---

I can barely tell an oak tree from a pine tree --

All I can say is that we have a lot of trees and lots of leaves on the ground -- and I have seen the horses eating some of the leaves --- even in preference to beautiful hay that is also available.

Jill - thanks for your kindness!

JJ

 

[Bluerocket]

Just heard from the Vet clinic -- no firm diagnosis yet..

Exterior Ultrasound showed normal intestines and normal kidneys and no free fluid running loose in her insides. That's good news.

Bloodtests so far show:

Low white bloodcell count

Creatin is at 3 - normal is 2 -- related to Kidneys -- 10 or 11 is what it would be if they were failing.

Electrolytes are "off" I don't know by how much

They have put 5 liters of fluid in her so far -- and will add dextrose to it if she does not eat.

want to avoid hepactic lipidosis (don't ask me to spell it -- and I don't know what it is yet)

Hoping that when they get enough fluids in her she will urinate.

Conclusions so far?

Not much to go on that is conclusive -- looks like something in her gastro-intestinal tract

but so far her kidneys have not shut down.

The vet will call me sometime tomorrow for an update.... my vet should be back in town tomorrow too so will ask him to translate this stuff.

Keep your fingers crossed that there will not be any surgery involved--

I just hope they can figure it out!!

JJay

 

[slaneyrose]

3) Over night she drank more than the normal amount of water for her

The danger of putting a horse on a very strict diet is it can cause liver failure....Hopefully this is not the case and she will be back with you soon....might be a good idea to ask your vet for a "diet plan" just to be safe.