Vaccinations

[albahurst]

I would appreciate some input from you folks here on the forum.

I have three pg mares. The question is whether or not to vaccinate with a 5 way about a month before foaling. I understand that by doing this, the foal can develop immunity to the substances. Now, I am wondering if I wait until a couple of weeks post-foaling and give the 5 way- how much immunity does the foal receive at that point?

I have never had problems giving a 5 way before foaling and I know some of you have had issues. My question really is on the immunity the foal will receive pre- or post?????

Hope this makes sense.

Peggy

 

[Joanne]

You need to give it 2-4 weeks before they foal. We give ours at 300 days pregnant.

The foal gets the immunity through the mother's milk in the first few hours after birth. It is a small window.

The foal would have NO IMMUNITY several weeks or even days after the birth if that is when you gave the shot.

 

[Kari]

This is on my mind, as well.

What all do you give? Tet, Rhino/Flu, WEE, EEE, VEE, WN...?

Kari

 

[Charlotte]

Peggy, the immunity the foal receives comes from what the mare puts in the colostrum which the foal is only able to absorb in the first 6-12 hours of life. Since your mares have been exposed/vaccinated in years past it is resonable to assume they will have 'some' antibodies to those diseases in their colostrum. The vaccination 30 days before foaling is to boost the antibodies for those particular diseases.

Vaccinating post-foaling isn't thought to have any effect on the foal's immunity levels. The foal's gut has changed and can't absorb the big antibody molecules from the milk and it does take several weeks m/l, after vaccination, for the mare's system to increase her antibody levels. I am not aware of any studies on any foal response however. Perhaps someone else here is familiar with studies on this.

Your mares have antibodies for all kinds of diseases and they put those antibodies into their colostrum which then provides immunity for the foals for a few months. Over time those antibodies degrade and are no longer effective to protect baby, but before that happens baby's immune system matures and begins making antibodies to diseases which baby is exposed to.

Vaccinations don't provide immunity like an on/off switch. Each horse will respond differently to vaccination. Some will develop a high level of immunity, some less and a few won't respond in any useful way. The antibodies they produce from exposure to vaccination may last a long time or a short time depending on the disease exposed to and that individual horse.

Charlotte

 

[kaykay]

While we are on this subject.........

My vet told me last year that there is a new study showing that if you vaccinate the mare 30 days before foaling the foal should not get vaccinated again until the spring of their first year. He showed me a study that showed that if you vaccinate them again (at weaning like we used to do) You are messing up all the immunities and can actually make the foal more suspectible to getting what you vaccinated for. I used to have a link to the study but cant find it now. Just wondering if anyone else heard this

Kay

 

[Charlotte]

Kay, I've read that too....was it a study out of a Florida university? I can't remember. I was thinking the recommendations from that study were to bwegin vaccinating at 9 months and do a 3 shot primary series.....but that's just my memory. someone needs to check up on the actual study!

Charlotte

 

[~Lisa~]

Kay I have heard that as well. They said to vaccinate later very close to the actual year birthdate I think I remember 9-11 months to start?

It is a guessing game to be honest. A mare who has been routinely vaccinated should have built up decent immunities to be able to pass on to her foal even if not vaccinated 30 days prior.

Like someone else said it is variable on how much truly goes to the foal with a vaccine 2-4 weeks prior to birth. Very few foals are actually born with zero immunity to anything

 

[Matt73]

Every vet I've talked with says 4-8 weeks prior to foaling. I give a 4-Way (EEE, WEE, Tetanus, and Flu). 2 weeks is not enough for the mare to develop sufficeint antibodies (but what do I know

).

 

[Reble]

Every vet I've talked with says 4-8 weeks prior to foaling. I give a 4-Way (EEE, WEE, Tetanus, and Flu). 2 weeks is not enough for the mare to develop sufficeint antibodies (but what do I know

).

We gave the same shots, last week.

Our vet was only concerned about the tetanus shots given too pregnant mares close to birthing.

The vet called the company and said it is not saying it is not safe, just is not written.

They recommend mares less than 1 month after breeding or 1 month before foaling.

(Should wait on Tetanus shots)

Just what our vet had to tell us, and we have the right to make the final decision.

 

[albahurst]

Thank you all for your responses. This has been really helpful.

Peggy

 

[Equuisize]

I read articles, too, in the Horse and one I believe in Equus several years ago

on the topic of foal immunity.

I just did a search and have not located it yet but will continue searching.

The articles at that time, were suggesting to have foals blood tested before giving

them their first set of shots, at weaning.

They felt that the foal, at weaning, would still be carrying the immunities gained

from the mother and to over vaccinate was not beneficial to the foal.

Nine months they felt was soon enough to innoculate for the first time.

I actually have followed that plan since our 2nd foal with no ill effects, however,

I do have a closed herd.

 

[albahurst]

I would be interested in hearing what you come up with after your search.

Thank you for the information-

Peggy

 

[Miniv]

Kay, I remember the article being discussed on here last year (?) And there have been other articles written about "over vaccinating" in general. The one about first shots for weanlings made me feel better because we personally hate giving them their shots while they are in the middle of stressing over being weaned!

 

[srpwildrose]

Hi Peggy,

I also give the 5 way 1 month before foaling.

I have done it this way for the last 4-5 years.

Also worm them a few weeks before foaling too.

Happy Foaling

 

[Becky]

For personal reasons, I don't vaccinate my mares before foaling. I prefer to vaccinate after they foal and before they are bred back. If your mares are vaccinated annually, they will pass immunity on to their foals. However, I do believe the immunity levels wane earlier in those foals than those whose dams were vaccinated shortly before foaling.

With my vaccination routine, I seemed to be having foals develop respiratory infections generally after weaning through early fall. This past year, I changed what I was doing. Vaccinating the mares as usual, I started vaccinating my foals (5 way) before weaning at around 3.5 months of age. Then giving them their second in a series at around 4.5 months of age. I can say that this past fall, I had no respiratory infections in my foals whatsoever. I'd like to think it was because in my case, I vaccinated them earlier.

Sure would be nice if we could check titer levels on the mares and foals to determine when vaccinating would work best!

 

[midnight star stables]

What is EEE and WEE?

Define "5 way".

I give Strangles, Rabies, Tetnus, and Rhino - is that not good enough?

 

[Carolyn R]

5 way= 7-way vaccine that protects against Eastern And Western Encephalomyelitis, Flu, Tetanus and Rhinopneumonitis(EHV-1 And EHV-4). Metastim adjuvant gives rapid immunity and disease protection. Administer 1ml dose IM, repeat in 3 to 4 weeks and annually thereafter(DATED 5-17-10)

WEE is western equine encephalomyelitis

EEE is Eastern equine encephalomyeltis

I am not sure where you are located or how many outside horse your horse comes in contact with, it is always best to review your vaccine schedule with a vet and ask what is recommended for your area.

I am in eastern Pa and the typical ones given for the area are 5way, west nile and rabies.

 

[albahurst]

Thanks all.

In our area, the 5 way, rabies and W Nile are the recommended vaccines. All horses, except the pg mares, do get the above at a set time every year. I just need to make a decision on the pg mares.

Peggy

PS Carolyn- Could you please explain the metastim adjuvant?

 

[barnbum]

I hate this whole vaccine stuff--well, more specifically the reactions! We did 5-Way all around Wednesday--including pregnant mares at 297 and 277 days. The 2 year old, and both mares had bad reactions--again. Sore necks. I've tried in the hip/bum area before only to have one hardly be able to walk (that was a Rhino I believe). Thankfully there was only one who needed food lifted for a night...but boy are they lethargic.

Rosie was fine this morning after a hurting night last night, Whisper and Jazz had no ill effects... but those poor mares.

Chloe's bag was tighter the next morning--not much bigger, but tighter and warm. Her temp was 100.7. The vet said the bag change was just because she's in her last trimester... but it's now shrunk to nothing... so I'm not sure on that.

Hopefully, they will be back to normal by tomorrow.

I asked the vet's office about giving 3 or 4-Way for now on and the lady I spoke with said they don't even carry those any more. I'd have to order it and administer it myself or have them do it. I'm tired of these reactions--so stressful!! I worry about mares aborting, but all seems fine.

 

[Matt73]

I hate this whole vaccine stuff--well, more specifically the reactions! We did 5-Way all around Wednesday--including pregnant mares at 297 and 277 days. The 2 year old, and both mares had bad reactions--again. Sore necks. I've tried in the hip/bum area before only to have one hardly be able to walk (that was a Rhino I believe). Thankfully there was only one who needed food lifted for a night...but boy are they lethargic.

Rosie was fine this morning after a hurting night last night, Whisper and Jazz had no ill effects... but those poor mares.

Chloe's bag was tighter the next morning--not much bigger, but tighter and warm. Her temp was 100.7. The vet said the bag change was just because she's in her last trimester... but it's now shrunk to nothing... so I'm not sure on that.
Hopefully, they will be back to normal by tomorrow.

I asked the vet's office about giving 3 or 4-Way for now on and the lady I spoke with said they don't even carry those any more. I'd have to order it and administer it myself or have them do it. I'm tired of these reactions--so stressful!! I worry about mares aborting, but all seems fine.

Why do you get reactions like that? I've given the 4 and 5 way and never had a swelling, soreness, or lethargy...ever! Is it the brand? That's just awful, Karla