Vet Check Today

[O So]

Today I finally had a vet out to see O So and to let me know how I was doing on feeding. He is a healthy horse except for a small infection in his eye ducts. That was the reason his eyes were always watery. She gave me an ointment to put in his eyes 3 times a day!

She told me that he is not underweight. Said that he looks good except for the hay belly, and said that is do to, to much hay! LOL I told her I was feeding him almost a flake a day, maybe 3/4s. I also am giving him a cup of Omolene and about a half cup of Strategy twice a day. I am trying to switch him over to Strategy. She told me I was feeding him to much hay! She only wants me to feed him a pound of hay a day along with the 2 cups of grain. She also recommended that I switch him to Equine Jr.. I just bought the Strategy, so that will have to wait till it is almost gone!

So now I need to get a fish scale or something so I can weigh his hay. I weighed a flack of his Orchard hay and it weighed 3 lbs. So I guess he only gets a 1/4 if a flake a day. Poor guy! Seems so little of an amount. I will have to break the 1/4 flake in half to give him two feedings! Oh, and that is along with the grass in the yard that he gets to nibble on! She said that would be plenty!

I guess I will give it a try and see if his belly goes down. Who knows, maybe she is right! LOL She said if it seems like he is losing weight I can up it a bit if I need too!

She also said it wouldn't hurt to worm him and to give him a dose for a 200 lb horse, she said he would be ok with that amount as long as it wasn't Quest! I told her I wouldn't use Quest anyway because of all the bad things I have heard about it!

So that is how his vet visit went. Not to bad for a first visit, although I forgot to ask about cleaning his sheath. I figure I can ask or have that done when I call her back out to geld him! She suggested I do it, and I do want to do it, I just need to convince hubby that is the thing to do! I need to convince him soon!! So my little guy doesn't pick up any bad habbits!! I think I will shoot for after I get back from vacation at the end of Oct.

Just thought I'd share my first vet visit and let you know what she had to say! I tried to find my post about feeding questions, but I couldn't find it! I would have put it in that thread!

Kim

 

[ruffian]

How old is he? If he's a 2YO or adult, he probably weighs closer to 300 than 200. Minis are very deceiving in their weights. Ivermectin wormers are extremely safe, and I've read where folks have given full tubes by accident with no bad effects, and my vet says that I could worm up to 5-6 times their weight and still be OK. That is Ivermectin based wormers only.

I love Strategy and prefer it over Equine Jr, especially if the vet says he's too fat. All my horses are on Strategy and are doing very well. Plus it's less expensive than EJ usually.

How big of an area is his grazing yard? Does he really need the hay? Is he cleaning it all up? If not, you might not need to feed hay at all or as the vet said cut it back.

 

[Sue_C.]

I'm certainly no vet, but I find that usually a "hay belly" is caused by too little protein, not too much hay...the term "hay belly" is actually quite misleading.

What was he getting before you got him, and how long have you had him?

For example, mine (generally) get two cups of soaked beet pulp, one cup 14% Checkers pellets, 1Tsp kelp and 1/8th cup flax, plus one flake of good quality hay twice a day, and are not potty OR fat. I dislike the thoughts of cutting a horse's hay down to "nothing", as it lends itself to a multitude of bad habits caused by bordom.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Both of my boys are somewhat overweight, but they do not have haybellies. I think an overwieght horse gets weight all over, not just in the belly. Frankly, imho I would trust your own instinct about weight over the vet's opinion. I know of folks who were told by vets that their horses were too fat, because they had bellies, and the spine was actually sticking up. Malnutrition can cause some strange symptoms.

Perhaps he needs more excercise to tone up his muscles? Have you checked for sand? Did she check his teeth?

Did the vet do a fecal check for parasites? The 5 day power pack might be a good idea rather than just a single dose of ivermectin. Many large animal vets are not tuned into fussy, worry-wart horse owners; you may have to assert yourself or pester her with questions.

You will probably be much happier with him as a gelding. Some stallions are very nice, but most are bossy and sometimes downright dangerous. The first time a mellow 250 pound stallion charged me because I was asking him to do something he didn't like was an eye-opener for me! And the better your boy begins to feel, the feistier he will probably get!

I had to take one of my horses to an eye doctor. She recommended Opcon-A drops (I get them at walmart). He had been on the perscription ointment for several weeks and was still "weepy". The drops cleared him up and now I use them at the slightest sign of trouble. I don't even have to halter him any more, he just turns his face up for the drops. I suspect it was caused originally by him burrowing his head in the hay tub. I started using a hay bag and that also helped his eyes.

 

[O So]

Well to answer some of the questions. He is 2 years old 28 inches tall. He weighs about 110 - 115 lbs.

He only has about a 20x 40' grassy yard to eat in. The other lot is dry. I am in the process of planting pasture grass in another yard so I have a place to let him graze while the other yard can grow!

She said if he nibbles on the yard for most of the day, the pound of hay along with the grain will be plenty for him.

I told her that a lot of people see pics of him and say he is underweight. She showed me that he wasn't by pushing in on his rib area and said that you really can't feel his ribs and he looks good all except for the hay belly. She said that I should only be feeding him 1 % of his body weight and only being a 115 lb horse, it would equal about one pound of hay!

No, she didn't do a fecal exam. I told her he was last wormed in June and she seemed fine with that. She told me I could go ahead and worm him again if I wanted to and told me what to dose him at.

She basically just did a physical exam today. Poked and prodded here and there. Listened to his lungs and took his temp. She seemed to think he is doing pretty good.

I think I will cut back a bit on his hay but not as much as she wanted me too. I was feeding almost 3/4 to a flake a hay a day. Plus the grass intake that he gets. I may cut it down to half a bale a day and keep increasing his grain a bit more. I too was told by many here ( in a thread that dissapeared) that he looked like he could use more protein. So the grain (Strategy) should help with that!

I will keep an eye on him and weigh him often to make sure he doesn't lose weight!

A friend of mine that has horses told me if my guys starts getting "gassy" it would mean I am giving to much hay! What do you guy's think? My little guy has had the toots quite a bit lately.

 

[O So]

Forgot to say that I have had him for almost 2 months now. He was getting 2 cups of sweet grain and free choice grass hay. He lived in OR. and I moved him to CA. I can't say what kind of grass hay he was getting, but it didn't look like it had to much in it. Looked to be more stems then anything.

I am feeding him a Orchard hay and a little bit of alfalfa. I also have another grass hay, but I don't know what is in per say, but it looks kind of stemmy and possibly it has some type of wheat in it. I was giving him that as "filler" hay. Meaning his main course 2 times a day was the Orchard and a little handful of alfalfa. Then in the morning and evenings I would give him that Stemmy hay. I figured it would give him something to munch on and not be to filling? Maybe I was doing more harm then good on that?

I think I will get through that stemmy stuff and then just feed him the Orchard and alfalfa. I don't like feeding him full on alfalfa because I heard that it isn't the greatest for mini's. Although the vet said as long as it is only a pound of it, he would be fine!

 

[ohmt]

I feed 2% body weight during the summer and then up that by at least 1% come fall. Hay bellies come from not enough protein and I did see your other post with the pictures and he could use just a little bit more filling out over his topline and hips. That being said, sometimes it's hard to tell from pictures so you as an owner that sees your boy every day should look at pictures of the other forum member's horses and then evaluate your boy. I completely changed my feeding program when I started coming on here, and I'm SO glad I did

I think Strategy will be great for him. I sometimes feed Equine Junior to 2 year olds if they need more protein or if they need to fill out more. It is a complete feed though so if you do feed it, you need to make sure you feed the amount it says to (which will be a lot) otherwise it won't do much for him. When I feed equine junior I also supplement with a little bit of plain grass hay morning and night so my horses have something to chew. I feed a 50/50 mix of grass hay and alfalfa-make sure the grass hay is fine stemmed, sweet smelling, weed free, with at least a tint of green. Good hay is crucial for minis...it's so hard for me to find good quality horse hay here. Everyone in my area has cattle so the hay is AWFUL. It makes a huge difference. make sure the alfalfa is quality too because low quality alfalfa can have very little nutritional value.

Hope this helps-Thank you for the updates and questions about your little guy!

 

[DianeT]

We use vasoline to clean the sheath. We do this for our stallions and geldings, every couple of months.

Good luck with your little guy......

 

[O So]

We use vasoline to clean the sheath. We do this for our stallions and geldings, every couple of months.

Good luck with your little guy......

How do you do it? Just rub vaseline on his, you know?

:BigGrin I have know idea how to clean him. I do notice he looks to be dirty and I can even flake off "stuff" from it when it is hanging there! I really think it needs to be cleaned and I am kind of upset I forgot to ask her.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would get another opinion, Vets do not always know anything at all about Minis and nutrition.

If he really only weighs that much he is underweight, Rabbit is 28" and is underweight at twice your horses weight, sorry!

PLEASE, please please do NOT cut down on his his hay, he is not getting enough to eat as it is without cutting down on what he gets.

PLEASE

 

[Charlotte]

I would like to commend you, O So, for taking the time to try to get this all figured out. It's not easy to take on the care of an animal new to you especially when you get widely differing opinions from 'experts'. If you just keep reading here on the Forum and asking questions you will probably begin to notice that a lot of the answers are somewhat similar. Then you can take the information and formulate a plan that works for you and your horse. (of course, that plan may change a few times before you're satisfied with it)

I have to agree with Rabbitsfizz in that there are very few veterinarians with much or any at all experience with miniatures. We have to rely on them many times, but it's also good to ask those long time mini breeders for their opinions/suggestions.

I didn't notice if you said anywhere how you came up with the weight of your guy. It sounds way off to me. We have a 25 1/2" stallion whose weight stays between 125 pounds and 135 pounds weighed at OSU Vet School on a certified scale. If your boy is 28" he should weigh considerably more.

Good for you for caring about doing the best for your little horse.

Charlottte

 

[Songcatcher]

Take a look at the mares and stallions on my webpage (link in signature below). These horses are straight out of the pasture and are in this condition year round with the exception of more hair in winter. I would not classify any of them as fat. They have free access to pasture 24/7 in the spring/summer/fall and free access to hay in the winter, 24/7. They get approximately 2 cups of 14% pelleted feed daily in summer and I up that to approximately 3 cups in winter (fed communally in a feed lot, so some get more and some less). They come and go from the barn as they choose and are not confined.

I took two mares and a stallion to an all Miniature auction this past spring and had several people ask me about my feeding program because my horses were the best looking horses there (and I had the second and third highest selling horses in the sale). They were straight from the pasture with no special conditioning or clipping. Just bathed and brushed with their bridal paths clipped.

I fully believe that we sometimes try to regulate our horses so much that we hurt them. I know there are special cases, but for the most part many are confined too much.

 

[Becky]

I have to agree with Charlotte and Rabbitsfizz that many vets don't have a clue when it comes to nutrition for miniature horses. And, too, good for you for trying to figure out the right way to feed and care for the little guy.

One thing I do know is that big bellies are frequently caused by poor nutrition or lack of calories. Also, young horses sometimes do not have the ability to digest fiber in their diets well. That, too, will cause a large belly. Coarse hay would be the first thing I'd change. I would also put him on an age appropriate diet such as a youth or growth formula feed. Something that is easy to digest and has the calories for growth and development. Plus a fine stemmed, quality hay.

I bet your colt comes along fine and you will enjoy him for many years to come.

 

[Sixstardanes]

Where in California are you?

 

[O So]

Yah, I am having a fun time trying to figure out a good feeding program! Some say to feed 1% of the body weight, some say more. I read that one should feed a horse 2 and a half pounds of total feed per every 100 pounds. So if my guy weighs in a 110 or so, that would be about 3 lbs total, pasture, hay, and grain! I was feeding almost a flake a day plus the grain, which would have been just about 3 lbs of food, plus pasture. He isn't getting alot of pasture because the lot isn't to big and he has it almost down to nothing now! I am working on the other lot to get it growing so I can switch him around!

I weighed him with one of those paper tape measure things. The kind you wrap around him just behind his front legs. The vet didn't weigh him, but guessed him to be 150 or so. I don't know why she didn't weigh him? I guess I will have to look around for another vet, or just take him to the Loomis Equine vet. I would think if you were looking at a horse for the first time you would weigh him? All she did was look at him, took his temp and felt him.

I live in Northern CA.

O So is not getting much exercise right now. It has been hot here and I don't want to work him in the heat. When I can work him he only gets about 20 mins or so of walking and trotting. That and if he runs and bucks he gets that too. Sometimes we play chase and have a good time! LOL The little dog gets involved and all!

We only have O So. I am going to start taking him to the local stables once I get my horse "bus" running better. We have the stall made and in it, I just want it to run better then it does. That way he can talk to the other horses and remember he is a horse!! I am off 4 days a week now, so I will have plenty of time to take him for visits!! That is another reason I want to geld him. I don't want him acting up if he smells the ladys!! LOL

For now I think I will keep up my normal routine. I will keep feeding him the 3/4s of a flake of hay. A mixture of 3 hays total, but going to cut it to just Alfalfa and the Orchard Hay. I am also feeding him Omolene 100 , 2 cups a day. I am switching him over to Stragegy though, so he gets about a cup of that a day too, mixed with the Omolene. Once the other Omolene is gone, he will be on Strategy only!

I would just like to get his hay belly under control. It is hard when some say it is because he is underweight, and some say it is from to much hay!!!

Like everyone say's, I will get it figured out! At least I know he isn't starving.

I think I would rather have him a bit overweight then under anyway!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As we have tried to explain, the "hay" belly is in fact a "pot" belly.

Not a result of too much hay but the result of too little protein. You should really really, NOT cut back his hay, he will leave what he does not want or cannot eat.

As Songcatcher has said, we regulate our horses far too much. The 1% thing is just a starting point or a "not less than" guide line, not a rule.

My horses are also out on grass 24/7 with the exception of two colts, one 27" to the withers, very slimly built and weighing in at 90 kgs (198 lbs) and I think he is just right, not too fat, not too thin. He is a yearling.

Then there is DC who is on my site, the Appy colt. He is 31" to the withers, and weighs in at 100kgs (220 lbs) I think he is a little slim, but he is very active and it is hard to keep weight on him. He is two, now.

Both these colts are fed free choice grass hay.

Both these colts get turnout all day on grass.

Both these colts get Beet Pulp, Alfalfa cubes, Barley, Peas, Soya, and flax every night, the soaked weight is 1 kg (2.2lbs) + grass chop.

And both of them win in the show ring!

These colts are stalled at night right now as we have a big show coming up, but they will be back out straight after, even if we qualify, as they need down time.

PLEASE do not cut back your horses feed. Trust us, take a leap of faith, give him more feed and watch him bloom! As the rest of his body catches up with his belly it will disappear. Trust me, I am a horse breeder!

 

[O So]

PLEASE do not cut back your horses feed. Trust us, take a leap of faith, give him more feed and watch him bloom! As the rest of his body catches up with his belly it will disappear. Trust me, I am a horse breeder!

First off I want to thank everyone! This has been such a confusing ride! I don't want to founder him and at the same time, I don't want to cut his feed back!

I will continue to feed the amount I have been feeding. I give him a grass hay with just a tad of alfalfa in the morning, The grass hay doesn't look like it has a whole lot in it, but I feel it will at least give him something to munch on till his actual meal which is at around lunch time. I then give him some Orchard grass hay and the grain. Then at dinner time he gets the same, Orchard hay and grain. Then at night just before dark I give him a bit of alfalfa and the grass hay again!

Once this grass hay is gone I am going to just do the Orchard grass hay and a bit of alfalfa, and the grain. I try to keep his hay bin with hay in it for the most part. I do let it run out for a bit between meals though. It just seems like he just keeps eating and eating. He wont leave the hay bin till all the hay is gone! Is that normal? If I give him a bit more then my normal amount of hay, his belly almost doubles in size by them time he is done eating the hay!!! Maybe not quite doubles, but gets pretty big! It does go back down a bit overnight though!

Thanks again for all the support! I know I keep repeating my concerns, but I am just trying to do the right thing for my little guy!

Kim

 

[chandab]

I have to agree with Charlotte and Rabbitsfizz that many vets don't have a clue when it comes to nutrition for miniature horses.

It isn't just miniatures, many vets have little knowledge of nutrition at all, most only get a few weeks of nutrition study while in school, unless they choose to take additional courses to study nutrition further.

I pretty sure I"ve learned more here and in books than I've ever learned from any of my vets.

 

[Sandee]

First off you are concerned about how much he weighs. If you do a search on here I'm sure you could find the discussion on this but here's the forumla that I use. Measure the "heart girth" (so around the horse behind the withers in the area of the heart). Then measure from point of pelvis (back edge of butt - if you can't find the bone) to the point of the shoulder (bone in chest above and to the front side of the front leg)

Now take those 2 measurements and put them in this forumla. Body weight = [9.36 x (heart girth)] + [5.01 x (body length)].

To MAINTAIN their weight a horse or minis needs 1 1/2% to 2% of their body weight in food with at least 50% of that being quality hay. Grain should never be more than 1 1/4 lb per 250 lb of horse.

 

[wingnut]

You sound just like I did about this time last year! My first few months of horse ownership ever and with minis to start too! I was *so* confused and overwhelmed! The wonderful members of this board were incredibly helpful and gave me great information. Keep at it and you'll find your way.

I have seen with my own eyes that "hay" or "pot" belly bloating and following the advice to increase protein did the trick to take care of it.