VSE- Horse & Donkeys?

[jbrat]

Hello,

Summer is winding down and I'm getting back online occasionally to gear up for my winter projects. Sorry, I haven't been attentive to my fellow forum members

I hope you've all been enjoying the out doors and wonderfull weather we've had this summer like I have.

I'm working on another project to expand the mini horse project I started in our county. I want to include all VSE. There are several kids who take thier Donkeys to the fair but there is nothing for the kids to do with them, they are just on display. I thought it would be nice to combine the Donkeys, ponies, and mini Horses and have a VSE show and seperate them from the saddle projects, the saddle horse people won't even let donkeys do a showmanship class on thier show bill. And the saddle horse people give the mini horse people a hard time, they think it is rediculus that we have the nerve to ask them to add class's to thier show bills. I've never tried to deal with a rude'r bunch of people

( the kicker is the people trying to play boss don't even have kids in the program, & they charge sponsors for $15 trophies and handout a small $3 trophy and .50 ribbins). I'm really uncomfortable being affiliated with that group, So I'm working up a proposal to have a VSE show that focus's on things other riding, and we can turn the program into a positive, honest, and fun experience for all.

So My first question is what hieght classifies as VSE?

I'm hoping the height cut off is up to about 45 inches- This way there will be a place for those mini's who have out grown thier papers, those small ponies the kids start on then soon out grow and donkeys. This will be primamarily for none riding equine.

Is there a magic # like there is for horse & Pony (58 inches)?

Any suggestions and ideas are appeciated.

I'll be searching for class ideas and descriptions too, Esp. for the donkey part, I've owned donkeys but know Nothing about showing Donkeys. And I'll have to get and learn the rules for Showing Donkeys. If there is any one on the Forum who has a 4-H donkey program in thier county, could you please share your show bills and rules. Or direct me to a website that has them.

Thank you all for the help that is available thru LB - this great bunch of People who are always will to share thier 2 cents!

 

[muffntuf]

Here are a couple of websites to check out.

http://www.minihorsecde.com/

http://cde4vse.com/index.htm

Sounds like you will be organizing your own little show!

 

[jbrat]

Thanks for the links!

CDE's are another thing we'd like to incorperate into the program but thats a project in its own and will start out as a open event before it gets brought into 4-H. I've learned it takes baby steps to get anywhere in the 4-H program. But if we can get out from under the saddle horse "group" we'll be so much better off, and it will open up so many more oppurtunities for all.

Here are a couple of websites to check out.
http://www.minihorsecde.com/

http://cde4vse.com/index.htm

Sounds like you will be organizing your own little show!

I will gladly organize a little show. I've worked and organized the saddle shows for Rude, dishonest group for the last time, And the Ohio extentsion office is going to get a complete explaintion of why. The mini horse people aren't the only ones with complaints many of the saddle horse people see the issues too, so hopefully there will be a change but being VSE and not Saddle horses, I May be able to get the mini's out from under the the fists of the negative, rude group.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

The height limit for the American Driving Society's "Very Small Equine" division is 99cm or 39" at the withers. I'm not sure it particularly matters for your purposes however as what you're doing (which is wonderful, by the way!) is in no way related to the ADS or ADS-style goals. Why don't you set the height limit whereever you want it, call it a Small Equine Show, and go from there? The ADS height limit does leave the taller minis/smaller Shetlands and similar small ponies out in the cold and there's a lot of debate going on about that at the moment.

For the donkeys, the classes I'm familiar with include things like coon jumping, obstacle, log skidding, barrel races, all sorts of great stuff! I wish they'd let the mini horses participate in some of them.

What a blast those would be.

Leia

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Why don't you set the height limit whereever you want it, call it a Small Equine Show, and go from there?

Ditto from me! YOU are making the show, and since it won't be a rated show or anything, you can make up the rules!

Our club always had a fun show at the end of the year that Jane and I ran. We always put in fun classes for the Minis and ponies that couldn't be ridden: in hand trail, obstacle race, in hand barrels and poles, showmanship, anything the big guys can do but in hand. Try an Egg & Spoon while LEADING a Mini- it's HARD!

Add some driving classes. Trail driving, barrels, poles. Lots you can do!

Lucy

 

[jbrat]

Small Equine - What a simple solution! Thanks!

Is 45" a fair height? or should I take it to 12 hands 48"?

I don't plan on having any riding class's except for maybe leadline or peewee class's, for open shows.

I have a couple quick questions-

Do you drive barrels just like you do when riding?

(This year at the open pony show they had a cones class but set it up like a barrel pattern and and you had to drive thru each set of cones(cones had golf balls on the top), it was something new they thought they'd try and they admitted they weren't sure how it should be done) It didn't seem right, but it was fun!!

So I'd like to understand how cones should be set up.

I've assumed barrels are like riding barrels, from videos I've seen online. And I can invision lots of different courses to do with cones.

As I get deeper into this project I'll have many more class type questions, I'm glad to hear it sounds like I can set the rules if I organize it.

I want to give the donkeys and mini's a place to have fun and feel welcome. I'm very proud of the mini horse people who attend the fair and show against the big horses. They always place in thier class's, and I think thats why the big horse people get offended. In showmanship -out of a class of 16 with 8 placings - six of ribbons went mini's, there were only 7 mini's in the class.

Trail in hand was similiar in placings with my son and his Mini taking 1st

But comments were made like "What else can you do with a mini beside showmanship" What can you do with them, are they just pets like dogs." This is why there has to be a change and we'll Show them what else mini's can do along with being great pets.

Thanks!!

Here's a thought - Has anyone done a mini agility????? So many ideas! But not sure how I'll pull it off.

 

[muffntuf]

email me at [email protected], I have information that would maybe help you. Suggestions really.

 

[targetsmom]

First of all, I think it is great that you are planning this!! It sounds wonderful.

About barrels, poles, cones, etc. Just like with VSE and "Small Equines" you can make your own rules. I have seen barrels and poles set up like for big horses (not sure of distances though) with entrants leading their equines at a trot through the courses. So that is one option. The Pinto Association http://www.pinto.org has barrels, poles, keyhole, and flag races for minis that are set up the same distance as for horses and the entrants DRIVE their equines through the course - also at a trot, with penalties for breaking gait. So you could do either.

Now for cones, the American Driving Society events such as Combined Driving Events or Pleasure Driving Shows often include "cones courses" where you drive your equine through a pattern of cones. There are usually tennis balls on top and if one falls off, you get a penalty added to your time. In ADS events, they measure the width of your cart wheels and adjust the distance between the cones accordingly. We did a "Progressive Cones" course this month with 6 sets of cones where the clearance went "progressively" down from 20" to 2". Lots of people knocked down tennis balls before the end! Winner was the one who got the farthest and then ties were broken by time. In a real cones course, the cones are numbered, with white numbers on the left and red on the right so you can see where to go next. It is similar to autocrossing with cars, which may explain why so many men drivers were doing it!! The pattern can be set up however you want as long as you can always see the next set of cones as you go through them. The pattern should also be posted and/or be allowed to be walked through.

And for a real challenge, there is always "hands free obstacle" where you remove the halter and urge your horse through the course without touching him. Clicker training is popular here.

 

[~Lisa~]

And for a real challenge, there is always "hands free obstacle" where you remove the halter and urge your horse through the course without touching him. Clicker training is popular here.

This is my all time favorite class we do not do clicker training at all but our horse completes this course and really shows how well he is trained (in spite of us lol)

I think many people do not check out there ADS clubs becouse it is different.. most are very accomodating though. Raven and I are taking her little horse to a show the end of Oct we have always gone to shows and playdays and helped out but never participated.

I called the president and told her we wanted to show but did not have breeching she said no problem come and have fun.. I then realized the next day UH OH side check- talked to her again and said green horse/ green driver and I really want them to just do what they do in a breed show and feel confident before switching. TOld her we would pay and go in for schooling she said dont worry I will let the judge know you can show and be judged just come have fun... so refreshing I am so excited to go and be able to participate (well ok Raven is) this time and learn something different.

 

[dali1111]

I really wish the so called "open" shows around here would allow minis. Most of the shows around here are hunter/jumper and a few reining/cutting competitions so obviously we can't compete in those but there are a few shows that have trail in hand, halter, showmanship and that sort of thing. Whenever I try to get an answer as to why they don't allow the minis I get a silly answer.One of my favourites that I get alot is "we don't allow minis because it's unfair to everyone else because the minis scare the big horses"....There was a show held about an hour from us a few years ago that decided to allow minis in the open classes and even added a few mini only classes. I was not able to go so the next year I phoned to see if they were going to allow minis again. Nope they will no longer be allowing minis at the show. I don't know for sure but I think it may have to do with the fact that out of the 6 open classes they allowed minis into the minis won 4.

So long story short GOOD ON YOU!!!! It sounds like a great idea! and a good way to promote the small equine.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Targetsmom gave you a great explanation of cones. The only thing I'll add is that I HATE that "trot-only" rule in the so-called speed classes! It spoils all the fun.

Sorry, I'm a CDE'er. The thought of being held to a trot in any event where speed counts is painful.

Oh well. It's probably a good idea for young competitors as they're usually using carts that aren't suitable for high-speed turns and would not know how to compensate for the shifting center of gravity, etc. Wouldn't want anyone to flip over!

Leia

 

[bonloubri]

"What else can you do with a mini beside showmanship"

I have been told you can do anything you can with a big horse except ride them. We have shows which include the pole bending, keg racing, obstacle, jumping and driving. We also do egg in spoon races and musical chairs.

 

[jbrat]

Thanks for all the encouragment! And targetmom for the great explanation of the cones classes.

There are no ADS group close to us. There is a new Richland County Light pony association and I've spoke to them and they are excited and wanting to work togethere to pull off a couple open shows this year. They have alot of the regular saddle classes, but they are the only ones who try to have driving and other class's for the smaller equine.

This year at the 1 open show they had they added a speed class, it was a blast, I think the plan was trot only but my little guy broke into a canter and I just let him go we had a great time but that opened the doors and everyone cantered them after that.

I think for the speed classes I'll have to set an age limit for the drivers (maybe trot only for younger ones). Just because some people have no sense.

Perfect example:

Picture a crowded show day many riding and driving horses, children, spectators all crammed into a small area with all the glory of the fair going on around us and then There's was a little girl couldn't have been more than 5yrs old driving, with other little kids alone, driving all over like kids on a bike! The mini was tossing her head and acting up alittle, I was not comfortable to say the least. The plan was for this very young girl to drive this mini in the pleasure class with her friend (another 5yr old) it ended up the mother had to go in the class with her, dressed in her shorts and tshirt, It was a good thing though because the mother also ended up having to do all the driving, as the horse was not happy with something. But I would never risk my kids or others to turn them loose at that young of age in the cart at a crowded event. So I'll have to think thru any rules mainly for safety reasons, I'd hate for anyone to get hurt. Either I'm tooo picky & nerveous or some folks just don't have a clue! I'm amazed at some of the things I see. I think a tack check should always be a must when riding or driving.

I watched a girl loose her bridle in a riding class and furious her chicago screw fell out, well you need to check those things often. ANother horse got a leg over 1 of the traces and flipped himself and the cart, no breeching and the traces sagged to the ground, DUH! And if you say anything to people they look at you like "Who the heck do you think you are!" I've attempted to speak up a time or 2 to parents who have kids doing very dangerous things. And rarely is it appreciated, but on a good note sometimes the person is doing the best they can and will except any advice they can get, I guess thats what makes it worth it in the long run.

I guess, if I've gotten 1 thing out of trying to work with these people, it is a BIG head! I've realized I have natural horse related common sense and more of it than most of the people, I've seen - NO wonder the shows aren't well attended,LOL.

Other class's I intend to have are ground driving class's and a beginners driving for young drivers not young horses.

And the hands free trail - Best class!!! I agree! We have a fun show the last day and have Carrot stick trail, you have to get the horse to do the trail pattern using only a carrot, Its alot of fun! and I'll fit it into our fun show, forsure.

egg & spoon we did 2 years ago it was fun but they didn't offer it in hand this year. But I'll will put it on our show bill.

bonloubri - What is Keg racing? Musical chairs sounds fun too!

Thanks again to you all!

Please contact me of anyone has any specific rules, safety, or general ideas I need to be sure to address.

 

[bonloubri]

What is Keg racing?

That is the same as barrel racing, some where along the way our club has referred to it as keg racing. We use cones for it and is done in hand.

 

[Little Bits]

Our local 4h group had the same problem. We couldn't find any shows that held mini classes. The only 4h shows that offered a very few mini classes were hours away. Our mini being unregistered also made it tough to find any open show in our area.

One day while my blacksmith was at my house. He was telling me about a local stable that does a lot of fun shows. So taking matters into my own hands I was able convince the owner to add some mini classes to their fun show program. She added an open mini classes for horses under 40". allowing them to be used as lead line horses also. She added 10 classes. Where there is a will there is a way.

Our first show was in August. Our kids were able to gain show experince without the added pressures of making a big deal about showing. It is a very laided back atmosphere. The other exhibitors were amazed at the little horses could do. Some classes were even combined with the big horses(Showmanship, halter, and colors) There were also mini versions, a walk race, musical stalls, hunter, jumper, barrels, poles, and Veratility. We did the same versatility course the bigger horses did. There were at least 8 different obstacles and very challenging as most of our horses hadn't seen any of the obstacles. It was really a big challenge. It not about what they can't do it is about what they can do. There weren't any driving classes but it was surely a fun time. Who know maybe next year.

We did have a few extra minis that people brought along, which really worked out great because it made the classes fuller. We are hoping our next show which is September 26 has more minis. So if you are located in or near Massachusetts and liked to join in the fun the website is www.clovervalleystables.com

or just email me and I will pass on the information. We are hoping that she will add us onto the Halloween show and maybe have classes for next year. Sorry for the plug.

I guess when it comes to fun shows you some time have to take the bull by the horns. Good Luck