WHAT ARE THE DIRECTORS DOING TO AMHA??!!

[tagalong]

I do not have a problem with the 1/4 rule EXCEPT I did not and still do not support the 34 1/4 portion of the rule.............this is why I voted it down.

Tom - according to what the rules said as posted, I interpreted it to say that a 34 1/4" measurement as a result of a protest would also not be allowed as that horse would then be over the height for its age... so you are saying that is not the case and it would be allowed to show? Now that I might not agree with. Because as you said...

Exhibitors bringing a tall horse to a show run the risk that the horse might "measure out" and they should understand this and accept this.

Absolutely. But then that 1/4" comes and goes.

But I would still like someone to explain to me how mature horses waltzing back and forth between Over and Under in AMHR is anything other than wishy-washy.... where are those outraged threads??! It would be refreshing to see all measuring issues addressd with the same fervor - no matter what registry is involved... but that never seems to be the case...

 

[crponies]

Tagalong, there was some discussion of AMHR measurement problems in this thread: What is your standard of perfection?

 

[tagalong]

Thanks, Jayne - I read that thread - and thank you for providing the link to others....but that excellent thread still falls far short of the way AMHA measuring has been raged about. Not nearly as much YELLING and OUTRAGE in that thread.

The same scrutiny should hold true for both registries.

Edited again cuz I can't type...

 

[Sun Runner Stables]

Tagalong and MinimomNC-

Thank for saying reasonably and honestly what I tried to say briefly.

For all of you who Don't show, and Don't breed for horses that do more then become wonderful companions and friends, I feel that many of you may be immune to alot of the nasty protest 'wars' going on. Not because your horses aren't nice or anything along those lines, but because you choose to not exhibit you horses. This is something I respect and understand, but then when everyone gets to pointing and shouting at those who do so, it really gets to me.

I seen and heard enough of it to make me Glad about this proposal- I would Love to see Every single one of you measure your horses in a relaxed manner, then heap everyone all Over your horse, in a tense cold room. Bet I'd get a room full of "cheating" horses.

All of you folks all hot about "The Standard The Standard"-

Goodness! I do believe you haven't throughly read though what this is geared towards doing, I think a solid read though with a calm mind might do wonders for your perspective. If it doesn't change your mind, that fine to, the beauty of life is to be different, however please do so well informed and with arguments that are not strictly emotionally based.

In a way I feel it's wonderful we all care so much, but I think it's also a shame that instead of speaking intelligently, this whole thing got off in a huge dramatic "OMG they are Killing Kittens!!" type of way. Heck had I not read though, and just taken it at face value, I'd be upset as well. Just sayin.

 

[McBunz]

If this rule said to a maximum of 34 inches I would not be complaining.. but once you allow a quarter of an inch it will soon be an inch.. allow an inch and

it will be two inches..

 

[maestoso]

I suggest that people start flying out to these meetings and vote! If this really is the big deal, scandal, and conspiracy that so many make it out to be, surely it is worth the trip so that you can be part of "saving" the association.

 

[McBunz]

As many many people have stated before. not all of us can run off to the meeting for one reason or another.. I don't think this was a "big deal, scandal, or conspiracy... Just another poorly thought out idea that was somehow passed...

 

[McBunz]

minimimNC says: "This 1/4 is only for horses that are protested and the way I read it if the horse goes over 34.25 in a protest measurement it will not be allowed to show and if it has shown it will have all awards forfeited"

tagalong says: "And it seems clear if a horse who measures over 34 at the inital measuring will lose everything. So what AMHA was founded on that so many of you are upset about and saying they are ignoring still holds true. No horses taller than 34" allowed.

The new policy says "The one quarter (1/4) inch allowance is to be applied to all height categories." It is understood that this allowance is for protest measurements only.

The minutes gives an explanation with the Example of Horse A, it is protested as being too tall in a 30 to 32 class. Its original measurement was 31 3/4. This horse measures 32 1/4 by a protest measuring team. It meets the allowance authorized under the protest rule. It is therefore a legal horse at that show. (This 1/4) inch allowance is to be applied to ALL height categories.

All points, placings , awards will be relinquished by any horse who fails to meet height requirements under protest for that show only. I understand this to mean that a horse that measures 34 1/4 in a protest will be allowed to show and retain any awards it wins.

The explanation given of Horse B, was exhibited in a 30 to 32 inch Senior Halter Class. Horse B wins Grand. It is then protested. Horse B measures 32 3/4 inches. Horse B forfeits the Grand Champion award along with the 30 to 32 inch halter class placings, but may keep any award that is not height related, such as youth halter, halter obstacle, color, etc. (The horse must forfeit the Championship Award, as a result of disqualification from the original height class.)

As I understand it Horse B has gained at least 3/4 inch in the protest measurement from the initial measurement. Horse B is 3/4 inch over the height limit for the 30 t0 32 class. I understood the allowance to be only 1/4 inch.

As another Example, Horse B is exhibited in the 32 to 34 Senior Halter class. Horse B is protested and measures 34/3/4 inches. Horse B forfeits the Grand Champion award along with the 32 to 34 inch halter class placings, but may keep any award that is not height related. So we now have a protested horse measuring 34 3/4 inches showing in an AMHA show, and keeping all awards it wins except height related awards. Because the 1/4 inch allowance is to be applied to ALL height categories.

Horse B with a protested measurement of 34 3/4 inches may win and retain all awards at the show that are not height related, but Horse B does not meet the requirements to be registered with AMHA, and no horse can be shown in an AMHA show that is not AMHA registered. This is why some of us are so upset.

Tom O'Connell says: "I did not and still do not support the 34 1/4 portion of the rule and this is why I voted it down."

This is not a rule, it is a policy. We should all be asking why a policy was entertained, voted on and passed that is in conflict with approximately 25 to 30 AMHA rules and bylaws.

This new policy needs a lot of explaining and thought which should have been done before it was passed. Simply following the rules would have prevented the problems. We have to hold the directors responsible for this, because it is their responsibility to enforce all rules.

 

[ruffian]

I'm confused - where did the 34 3/4" example come from? I read it that horse B was 32 3/4 and looses his halter places (30 - 32), but keeps his ie jumper class as that class if 34 and under.

As a show manager for 15 years, I can absolutely confirm that a horse can change height at least 1/4 with every measurement, even if you do three in a row. All it takes is for a mare in heat to walk by a stallion, or a stallion to whistle to a mare, or a car door to slam by a nervous gelding.

Since so many are up in arms about this, where is the by-law change to make the measurement at the withers? Yes, every class would have to be changed. So be it. If this is what everybody wants, make it happen.

 

[conders]

Okay, I have read all the posts, listened to all the opinions from alot of people who probably have never undergone to terrible ordeal of being measured or protest measured at the AMHA World show. Well, it is not fun, it makes you sweat, it makes you feel like you've done a terrible crime that might be punishible by death if you get caught. Last year at the World show I had to get remeasured with someones nose, so close to my horses "bottom mane hair" that my horse felt her breathing and he grew 2" with each of the protesters breaths!

Alot of you that are whining about what AMHA is doing, don't even show AMHA. Some of us have no choice, they don't allow amatuers who have trainers in their family to show amatuer at the R shows, so we have no there else to be.

AMHA is trying to help people like me, who get so nervous measuring with a crowd watching, get their legitimate horses shown.

If you think this is funny, or dumb, TRY IT. Go to the World and get protested by someone who just wants to torture you because you beat them, and get called for a protest, if you do, you won't complain about AMHA giving 1/4 of a lousy inch to ease the tension that gets your horse too big!!!!! We don't want to show horses that are measured at the wither, these are not quarter horses that we want to make bigger, these are minis. Besides, the top of the wither is no more of a distinct spot to measure from than the bottom of the wither.

Just humor all of us who have been on the spot, and if you have never had to sweat your way thru a protest measure, don't push to change things, AMHA is doing all they can to support the members who are out there showing, let them help.

 

[Candice]

Amen. I would like to know how many of the people who are so outraged about this actually do show their horses. ??????

 

[McBunz]

No I don't show.. but you would be outraged when your 35" mini is beaten out by someones 36.5 in an AMHA show.... Not saying you have a 35" mini to show

but by the sounds of this this is not to far from what goes on at the shows..

When this happens someone who is showing a horse 34" and under

doesn't dare protest because they are called trouble makers.. From what I hear from people who do show this starts right from the local shows all the way

up to the Nationals.. It is your butt we are trying to protect along with the others who follow the rules..

 

[Sun Runner Stables]

No I don't show.. but you would be outraged when your 35" mini is beaten out by someones 36.5 in an AMHA show.... Not saying you have a 35" mini to showbut by the sounds of this this is not to far from what goes on at the shows..

When this happens someone who is showing a horse 34" and under

doesn't dare protest because they are called trouble makers.. From what I hear from people who do show this starts right from the local shows all the way

up to the Nationals.. It is your butt we are trying to protect along with the others who follow the rules..

Thank you, I am satisfied with my current hindquarters protection, I believe your services are not currently needed-

For those of you who don't show, how in God's good little green earth do you know what "is not to far from what goes on at the shows"???

I've watched a pack of people get rabid on here, and for the majority of the group (pardon the exceptions, no offense intended), none show or put Their horses on the line at all.

If I am out there showing, and someone's horse is 35", you bet your muffins I'd be protesting! Would I do it to be spiteful and cause trouble- No mam'-I don't find it productive to do this to people. But there Are some, and here's a hint, it's Not going to be some poor innocent bystander in the class that has the single Honest horse-

No it's often another in the class who is concerned they may be 'out classed' -

That's what this rule is trying to Stop. It happens, and it's crappy and silly and downright wasteful and stressful-

As Conder said- unless you have Been there in those shoes, you have no idea what those horses/owners go through. At the end of the day, I would be just fine with spotting my fellow miniature horse lover a 1/4 inch under those circumstances quite frankly.

 

[Neil]

Okay, I have read all the posts, listened to all the opinions from alot of people who probably have never undergone to terrible ordeal of being measured or protest measured at the AMHA World show. Well, it is not fun, it makes you sweat, it makes you feel like you've done a terrible crime that might be punishible by death if you get caught. Last year at the World show I had to get remeasured with someones nose, so close to my horses "bottom mane hair" that my horse felt her breathing and he grew 2" with each of the protesters breaths!Alot of you that are whining about what AMHA is doing, don't even show AMHA. Some of us have no choice, they don't allow amatuers who have trainers in their family to show amatuer at the R shows, so we have no there else to be.

AMHA is trying to help people like me, who get so nervous measuring with a crowd watching, get their legitimate horses shown.

If you think this is funny, or dumb, TRY IT. Go to the World and get protested by someone who just wants to torture you because you beat them, and get called for a protest, if you do, you won't complain about AMHA giving 1/4 of a lousy inch to ease the tension that gets your horse too big!!!!! We don't want to show horses that are measured at the wither, these are not quarter horses that we want to make bigger, these are minis. Besides, the top of the wither is no more of a distinct spot to measure from than the bottom of the wither.

Just humor all of us who have been on the spot, and if you have never had to sweat your way thru a protest measure, don't push to change things, AMHA is doing all they can to support the members who are out there showing, let them help.

I was standing in the measuring area behind Conder's horse during the protest remeasure and I can agree with everything said here. I can tell you there is no way I would want to have been holding the protested horse and this traveled right down the lead to the horse.

 

[tagalong]

No I don't show.. but you would be outraged when your 35" mini is beaten out by someones 36.5 in an AMHA show.... Not saying you have a 35" mini to showbut by the sounds of this this is not to far from what goes on at the shows..

You do not show - and have thus never measured a horse in - and yet seem to know exactly what goes on? Phrases like by the sounds of it... from what I hear ... someone said... often do not lend anything more to a discussion than hearsay, pot-stirring and the endless telephone game...

It is your butt we are trying to protect along with the others who follow the rules..

Wow - could you be more condescending?

McBunz - I think that those who have actually been there and done that are far more qualified to do any necessary butt-saving - especially their own - than someone sitting at their keyboard smugly telling them that they are wrong wrong wrong.

Please take a couple of your horses to some active arena or barn they have never been at before. Have a set of strangers hover over your horses and measure several times while you are anxious and worried. There is no way that horse will be the same measurement everytime. I could do the same thing here - knowing the exact official measurement of the resident senior stallion... and I guarantee that there would be a range up and down that miserable 1/4". If that leeway is only given for protests which have often been used simply to take a swipe at someone - and the horse must measure in at 34" or under to show in that show anyway... then I confess that I am having trouble seeing this as a complete outrage.

Open for discussion and examination, yes. Exaggerations and condescension and AMHA IS BLOWTORCHING PUPPIES -OMG!! threads? Not so much.

JMO. YMMV.

 

[LisaF.]

I am going to be VERY BLUNT - This is where the measurement changes lately are going.

I have a well known farm that tried to sell me a miniature horse with AMHA/AMHR papers that measures 37". The person that bought this horse backed out ( I wonder why). It was advertised at a smaller height. I had wanted this horse when I thought it measured smaller. So, when the people bought her and figured out her TRUE HEIGHT they backed out. So, the person contacted me wondering if I was still interested. I told them - YES

When they e-mailed me 37" I thought it was a typo - So, I e-mailed them back - and NO it was not a typo.

It is from a well known farm - it was not advertised on ( that I am aware of) the LB website.

It did sell on a well known on-line auction. - It did NOT sell on LB Last Chance Auction

I will be contacting some people over this.

So, you see??? This is where the measuring issue is going with AMHA in my eye's.

I will not post there names on the forum - but, I will be happy to share. If you send a Private message or e-mail - AFTER - I contact AMHA and The ON-LINE Auction.

 

[minimomNC]

I have news for you, there have been 37" mares in breeders pastures alot longer than this "measuring" issues has been debated on LB. Don't try to push that on recent happening. I bet that horse wasn't born in Feb which was when the first "unpopular" vote was made. So how can you even begin to say that this 37" horse is caused by the measuring changes lately?

The measuring change is only for horses that go to the show ring, not your horses staying at home and never having anyone else put a stick on them. And the change is ONLY for PROTESTED horses. Not every horse at the show.

 

[Charley]

It appears to be a change not made for the good of the association but for a person or persons who have had this protest made against them and lost the protest.

They were caught and now want a grey area. JMHO

 

[McBunz]

No I don't show.. but you would be outraged when your 35" mini is beaten out by someones 36.5 in an AMHA show.... Not saying you have a 35" mini to showbut by the sounds of this this is not to far from what goes on at the shows..

You do not show - and have thus never measured a horse in - and yet seem to know exactly what goes on? Phrases like by the sounds of it... from what I hear ... someone said... often do not lend anything more to a discussion than hearsay, pot-stirring and the endless telephone game...

It is your butt we are trying to protect along with the others who follow the rules..

Wow - could you be more condescending?

McBunz - I think that those who have actually been there and done that are far more qualified to do any necessary butt-saving - especially their own - than someone sitting at their keyboard smugly telling them that they are wrong wrong wrong.

Please take a couple of your horses to some active arena or barn they have never been at before. Have a set of strangers hover over your horses and measure several times while you are anxious and worried. There is no way that horse will be the same measurement everytime. I could do the same thing here - knowing the exact official measurement of the resident senior stallion... and I guarantee that there would be a range up and down that miserable 1/4". If that leeway is only given for protests which have often been used simply to take a swipe at someone - and the horse must measure in at 34" or under to show in that show anyway... then I confess that I am having trouble seeing this as a complete outrage.

Open for discussion and examination, yes. Exaggerations and condescension and AMHA IS BLOWTORCHING PUPPIES -OMG!! threads? Not so much.

JMO. YMMV.

Do you think we just come up with this stuff to tick some of you off... We have talked to a great number of people who signed the original polls to know

exactly what goes on at the shows..and if the problem were this quarter of and inch and remained a quarter of an inch who would really care that

much.. Saying it is alright to be a 1/4 inch over is just asking to increase the size of horses trying to pass under the 34 inch limit that are already

over sized.. A great deal of the people who signed these polls do show and are offended when they stand their 33 inch horse next to a horse

that is obviously 3 inches or more taller than theirs outside the show ring.. The only answer to this is to enforce the existing rules.. and nobody

seems to be doing this..

 

[Viki]

One more time, this .25" allowance is ONLY for the PROTEST measurement. Has nothing to do with letting larger horses IN AMHA or anything else. It's purely an allowance for stress on the horses and handlers during the PROTEST measurement.

Viki