What do you think of my colt?

[tagalong]

You asked for the conformational critique and I apologize if the critique of his looks was offensive. It does not make him any less or more to anyone, it only matters what he means to you, but it might give you pause for thought if you ever thought of breeding him, as far as mares to consider, or to consider it at all.

Well said.

Again, HMM - you asked for comments... and you got them. And I agree with what nootka has said in this thread. He does not look like any kind of a stallion prospect to me at this stage and based on those photos - but a nice enough little guy that you can have fun with. His looks will change as he goes through geeky stages - and yes, pics may not "do him justice" - but those same pics are all we have to go on.

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No fight here, aesthetics are just that. The old saying "you don't ride a head" is true, even though we don't ride Miniatures. The shape or size of a head does not dictate a horse's useability, and shape and size are also subjective as far as opinions.

In minis - I think it would be - you don't drive the head... :bgrin

And I agree - what fight?? *puzzled* I thought we were discussing...

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[High Meadow Miniatures]

Well said Nootka & Tagalong, There is no fight here! We are disscussing but some peope can get heated, Just wanted everyone to know I was not trying to cause trouble

 

[disneyhorse]

Yes Tagalong, that's exactly what I say... You don't DRIVE the head!!! You gotta believe that mantra when you start getting into the Modern Shetlands.

: They just don't have pretty heads like the minis do. In fact, according to the rulebook they aren't supposed to have an extreme dish!

Some people just don't want to hear their stallion prospect needs to be gelded and take great offense at it. Not everyone has the same standards and aesthetics though.

Andrea

 

[susanne]

It is patently ridiculous to ask for a critique (by definition the OPINIONS of others) and to become defensive over those OPINIONS.

This is such a valuable tool, but many of our most knowledgeable forum members refuse to do critiques any more, due to original posters becoming defensive or getting their feelings hurt.

Once you have requested a critique, if you don't like the OPINIONS you receive, you just have to suck it up. As Jane (rbbitsfizz) said, if you want someone to confirm your opinion that your horse is pretty, ask for that and many will respond accordingly.

Nootka, rabbitsfizz, disneyhorse and others have taken considerable time and effort to give you the benefit of their years of experience. I hate to see thoughtful critiques tossed aside without respect. Pardon me for getting up in arms, but if you can't handle an honest evaluation, then don't ask for one.

It's wonderful that you love your colt, and it is only natural to look at our horses and search for their own special beauty. But if we want to breed horses that are better than previous generations, then we need to avoid being barn blind and take an honest, objective look at their weaknesses. It is not a question of whether or not you love your horse.

I've had many people ask why I gelded Mingus, questioning the wisdom of that decision. He is a striking horse with charisma for days and I love him dearly, but in the cold, hard light of day, his faults outweigh his benefits, and he is not breeding material.

 

[Miniv]

Susanne,

Excellent post..........I don't like to comment anymore, for just the reasons you stated.

Interestingly it was NOT our original poster, High Meadow Miniatures, who became defensive, but some others.

My recommendation for folks who are seriously wanting to improve their breeding and show prospects is to find a MENTOR(S). Find one (or more) who has proven themselves over several years.......... That's what I did.

I found a lady here in the Northwest who had (and still does) prove her program both at the World Shows and with her sales. She took the time to sit with me at horse shows and "tear apart" horses in the arena. It was FUN and I learned A LOT. Then, she took me out into both her and MY pastures and we tore apart our OWN.

MA

 

[High Meadow Miniatures]

: Please understand, I am NOT being defensive!! I know that if I ask for honest opinions, I will get them!

 

[mininik]

I see a cute gelding.

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I just have to say that while pictures CAN distort, some things you see are just there. The best of photographers can hide some faults or make them less obvious, but not all faults can be hidden. At a certain point you have to drop your defenses and try to see what others are seeing if that is what you've asked for. We all own horses we love, but we shouldn't let love cloud our view to the point where we're always making excuses or rebuttals for what may be or is.

 

[tagalong]

Interestingly it was NOT our original poster, High Meadow Miniatures, who became defensive, but some others.

Ummmm.... well HMM came across as defensive - after comments about toeing out and cowhocked etc.

And this is also why I rarely contribute to critiques anymore - as all too often, unless you gush and say Beautiful boy!! or Congratulations!! He is breathtaking!! - even if said horse has four legs all going different directions - then you get in trouble.

A couple of years ago I had a scathing PM here from someone who ripped me to shreds about my calm critique of a poor "future herd sire" who IMO was destined to be a wonderful pet to enjoy - and not pass his many flaws along... the owner of said horse listened to our comments and in the end agreed - and went on to enjoy him after he was gelded. The person who dumped all over me was not connected with the horse in any way.

So - I quit commenting. Maybe I should return to that plan! :bgrin

I can sit in the stands and have fun analyzing horses for their faults - I have done it to our current show string many times... without the discussion... without the analysis... none of us can share and learn.

Please understand, I am NOT being defensive!! I know that if I ask for honest opinions, I will get them!

Good for you, HMM....

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I just have to say that while pictures CAN distort, some things you see are just there.

Agreed. The geeky, gawky stages come and go but the underlying structure remains the same... no matter how good (or bad) the photo...

 

[Buckskin gal]

This is one good reason to have excellent pictures when asking for opinions. Have the pictures, you put on, show exactly as he is so people will get a true picture of what he is. For me, it was the pictures that were bad and maybe the horse itself is really nicer than what they show. One thing about pictures, some can make a horse look better than what they are and some will make them look worse. I must not have seen pictures some others did because there was no way I could have gave an honest opinion of his back legs from the pics I see. Try to have someone near you who is good at evaluations go over him for you. Good luck and I am sure you love him, perfect or not. Mary

Ok, First of all, The lady I bought him from had him toed out, Not bad but still, he needed some correction. These pics were a long time ago, He is not toed out at all anymore, I know what cow hocks look like & NO, He is NOT cow hocked, It does appear that way in the pic but he is STRAIGHT, No appy breeding. In the last pic he is standing with his left side down hill, So his back leg looks funny

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[shane]

I remember coming on here when i first joined the forum, and I posted a picture of my then stallion, for a critique,

and to be honest everyone liked him and welcomed me on board the forum,

except for ONE person, Jane. Jane{rabbitsfizz} gave me and honest brutal opinion on my horse,and she also called him pretty! because he is, but that doesnt mean his confirmation was

i was really offended,

THEN i educated myself on here and took another second look at him....I have since gelded him, and i Thank Jane for her honesty,as she has seen thousands of horses in her lifetime and as someone just said, the people that are taking the time out to critique any horse on here are only giving there opinions and years of knowlage,

having said that My boy did have a relationship with a very nice wee mare before he said goodbye to his jewels

: and they both complimented each other,so maybe my baby colt will have a better confirmation than his daddy

: :bgrin

 

[nootka]

I agree that the discussion is part of the learning process.

When anyone offers an insight or critique on a photo or photos of a horse, I figure it is a guideline.

I can then take that insight and go research for myself and decide if my horse truly does or doesn't have that flaw, also ask for others' opinions. It helps me to take second, third, and fourth looks at my horses.

I never stop looking at them "tearing them apart" as MA put it.

I have a little "game" I play where I take each horse's strong point and put it to another's and build my Frankenstein "perfect" horse in my mind's eye. That is what I am pursuing with my breeding attempts.

There are some stallions out there that have never thrown their "flaws" but if you look at some of the mares, it may well be that those mares were strong in that dept. and/or they've just been lucky. It helps to know your horse's immediate relatives, but in the end, you must very carefully evaluate what's in front of you.

I applaud anyone putting their horses out for public opinion, it takes a strong and confident mind to do this in the first place. Some will be wrong, others will be right, and some of the issues will not even be addressed, as photos can hide or mask some flaws, and exaggerate others due to angle and lighting, etc.

BUT it is a learning tool. I am fine with offering any of my horses for critique, as I try to be very aware of what I'm up against either in a breeding prospect or a potential show prospect, even the "pleasure" horses are not immune.

There are some I see breeding or contemplating breeding and I wonder why they would, when some of the conformational flaws are so strong and even indicative of dwarfism, but it's a free world and not everyone sees the same thing.

I think this thread's been helpful to many, and even myself. I offered my colt as an example since he was the same age and the picture was not taken from the "best" angle as in it was taken from a standing point of view, not crouched and not really "posed". He also visibly has the same toed-out thing going on as the OP's horse, and then also displays more of the proportion that I would like to see at that age, as well as a stronger hip, so that was my point, not to say my horse is "better" or anything, just different.

Liz M.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I have to say personally and I am sure some will take this in a way I dont intend but...

I also not only appreciate what others say but when they like Liz put there own horses up for example or Minimor or Jill well i could go on but there are plenty that do and I do feel that it helps when not only talking about someone elses horses and there flaws but by saying this is my horse and this is where I feel he could be stronger compared to this horse ect. I realize it is not possible on every thread as that would just be silly but I think it makes for a nice part of the discussion!

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[High Meadow Miniatures]

I was looking my pics over carefully, I apoligize, He DOES looked cow hocked, toed out, big ears & a plain head, If I had never seen him in person, I would have thought the same, I am very sorry, Please forgive me, I know that if I ask for opinions, That is what I will get, It is also a good example of how misleading pics can be, I am very sorry, Thank you, Autumn

 

[nootka]

You have nothing to apologize for, Autumn, IMO.

Anyway, we all learn when someone posts things like this.

Liz M.