What does a Chocolate Palamino look like?
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Mona
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There really is no such thing as a chocolate palomino. I think that is the color that some call a silver black or silver smokey black. It looks brownish color with flaxen/silver mane and tail.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
What Mona said is correct. Here's a picture of one of our stallions, who is smokey silver black but I bet some might say "chocolate palomino". He does carry the cream dilute and he looks like he's made out of milk chocolate
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Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Also, here's a silver dapple mare we own named Hope. As Terry indicated, the color on these horses varies by season, and also whether or not they are freshly clipped (we get ultra dapples on this girl when we clip her):
mdegner
Well-Known Member
Agree with Mona and Diane. Before we understood the color thing, we described our stud as chocolate palamino but DNA testing confirmed he is smokey silver black (heterozygous for Cream, silver and black). The cool thing is his babies are like a rainbow, everything from (very white) palamino, golden palamino, sooty buckskin, silver dapple, smokey silver black and black. Flair looks very much like Diane's.....
Chocolate palomino is a shade of palomino with a sooty modifier.
I have seen chocolate palomino in big horses but have not seen one in minis yet. It seems minis carry more of the silver modifier. And they seem to have more smokey blacks and silver blacks than in the big horses.
A chocolate palomino is a red based horse with a cream gene and the sooty modifier. How dark it is, depends on how dark the modifier is. But most have dapples and golden color on them. Usually their hind quarters, legs and shoulders can get much darker with lighter shades in other places. They are registered as a palomino.
I have seen chocolate palomino in big horses but have not seen one in minis yet. It seems minis carry more of the silver modifier. And they seem to have more smokey blacks and silver blacks than in the big horses.
A chocolate palomino is a red based horse with a cream gene and the sooty modifier. How dark it is, depends on how dark the modifier is. But most have dapples and golden color on them. Usually their hind quarters, legs and shoulders can get much darker with lighter shades in other places. They are registered as a palomino.
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Mona
Well-Known Member
I had a mare just as you described Windhaven...a palomino with sooty, and she did not look chocolate in any way, shape or form.
JennyB
overo
I got this information on-line, but it seems there are LOTS of different ideas of what it is...
Curious about the genetics that create a chocolate palomino? In horses, we actually just have two base colors: red [recessive] & black [dominant]. Everything else we see - bays, greys, palominos, buckskins, roans, etc are both or either of those base colors influenced by gene modifiers.
In the case of a palomino, we start with a chestnut or sorrel [basically the same but for 'shades']. The chestnut/sorrel is homozygous for the red gene. [being recessive, two copies of the gene are needed for the gene to be expressed.] Then we add the creme gene, an incomplete dominant dilulent color modifier. Just think of adding creme to your coffee. The creme gene dilutes the red recessive gene. When it dilutes a chestnut, we end up with a palomino. [A diluted bay gives us a buckskin.] When mating a palomino to a chestnut, the resulting odds are 50/50 for a palomino or chestnut. It's a coin flip.
So how do we get a chocolate palomino? Chocolate is a unique phenotype so what's the genotype? It's a matter of shades. Honestly, we still don't know that much about "shades" although a few influencing gene modifiers have been identified. One of them is the smutty gene. [some people prefer the term "sooty".] The smutty/sooty gene results in what it sounds like- a darkening. Often, we see dappling, individual black hairs, a darkening at the points, face &/or top-line [camouflage in the feral state?] and, sometimes, an overall darkening as seen in chocolate palominos, liver chestnuts, etc.
Experience & observation tells us that a chocolate is a palomino that is homozygous [has two copies] of the smutty gene. Both parents need at least one copy of the smutty gene. Crossing a liver to a chocolate will result in a 50/50 liver or chocolate. A chocolate to a chestnut who shows black in the tail & darkness around the knees [indicating one copy of the smutty gene] should result in 50% a foal with one copy of the smutty gene, 25% two copies or 25% no smutty gene. Of course then we factor in the 50/50 palomino or chestnut.
Clear as mud? Once you see the pattern, it's really kinda easy to figure. That's the fun part about color genetics- you can usually see what you have?
Blessings,
Jenny
Curious about the genetics that create a chocolate palomino? In horses, we actually just have two base colors: red [recessive] & black [dominant]. Everything else we see - bays, greys, palominos, buckskins, roans, etc are both or either of those base colors influenced by gene modifiers.
In the case of a palomino, we start with a chestnut or sorrel [basically the same but for 'shades']. The chestnut/sorrel is homozygous for the red gene. [being recessive, two copies of the gene are needed for the gene to be expressed.] Then we add the creme gene, an incomplete dominant dilulent color modifier. Just think of adding creme to your coffee. The creme gene dilutes the red recessive gene. When it dilutes a chestnut, we end up with a palomino. [A diluted bay gives us a buckskin.] When mating a palomino to a chestnut, the resulting odds are 50/50 for a palomino or chestnut. It's a coin flip.
So how do we get a chocolate palomino? Chocolate is a unique phenotype so what's the genotype? It's a matter of shades. Honestly, we still don't know that much about "shades" although a few influencing gene modifiers have been identified. One of them is the smutty gene. [some people prefer the term "sooty".] The smutty/sooty gene results in what it sounds like- a darkening. Often, we see dappling, individual black hairs, a darkening at the points, face &/or top-line [camouflage in the feral state?] and, sometimes, an overall darkening as seen in chocolate palominos, liver chestnuts, etc.
Experience & observation tells us that a chocolate is a palomino that is homozygous [has two copies] of the smutty gene. Both parents need at least one copy of the smutty gene. Crossing a liver to a chocolate will result in a 50/50 liver or chocolate. A chocolate to a chestnut who shows black in the tail & darkness around the knees [indicating one copy of the smutty gene] should result in 50% a foal with one copy of the smutty gene, 25% two copies or 25% no smutty gene. Of course then we factor in the 50/50 palomino or chestnut.
Clear as mud? Once you see the pattern, it's really kinda easy to figure. That's the fun part about color genetics- you can usually see what you have?
Blessings,
Jenny
Lewella
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Nine times out of ten if you here someone call a horse a chocolate palomino it is a silver dilute. Sooty palominos really don't look chocolate as Mona pointed out and "chocolate" is simply a descriptive term. Anything chocolate shaded with a light mane and tail can and has been called a chocolate palomino by someone at some point. I've seen this flowery descriptive term used on silver bays, brown silvers, silver blacks, silver smoky blacks, brown silver buckskins, silver buckskins, silver duns, brown silver duns, flaxen liver chestnuts, and only very, very rarely on sooty palominos.
Not sure what site you found that on Jenny but most people use the term sooty as opposed to smutty. Smutty is usually used to describe a color that has sooty patches but is not all over sooty - aka has "smut marks". That's the first I've ever read of anyone thinking the darker shades are homozygous for sooty. The fact of the matter is no one knows how sooty is inherited.
Not sure what site you found that on Jenny but most people use the term sooty as opposed to smutty. Smutty is usually used to describe a color that has sooty patches but is not all over sooty - aka has "smut marks". That's the first I've ever read of anyone thinking the darker shades are homozygous for sooty. The fact of the matter is no one knows how sooty is inherited.
mydaddysjag
Well-Known Member
I sold a horse a couple years back who is a chocolate palomino, he was clearly a palomino as a youngster up until he was about three, but has gradually darkened to a chocolate palomino. I do have silver blacks and silver dapples, so I do know what they look like in person. Ill try to add pictures of him as a weanling, yearling, three year old, four year old, and five year old to show how his coat has changed.
Maple Hollow Farm
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I believe Getitia had a gorgeous chocolate (sooty) palomino that she has shared pictures of before. Hopefully she will see this and post hers. Chocolate palomino does just mean sooty palomino but like others have said many people get confused and refer to the darker silver black/smokey silver black as chocolates so can get very confusing.
rubyviewminis
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Exactly correct. I have a sooty bay pinto mare who's dam was sooty buckskin and looked seal brown. Her filly, my two year old now, has a smokey grullo sire (dun on black with cream). Genetically she is a sooty buckskin tobiano, looking at her she looks like a dunskin. Sooty creates a face mask, dapples, and many times but not always a dorsal stripe. In most cases the dorsal stripe can be distinguished from a dun dorsal stripe. In my filly's case it looks like a dun dorsal stripe, and the only way to tell just by looking at her that she did not inherit dun is the dark face mask. Like many buckskin mini's when she is clipped she looks dark grey, and only in the last year has she started to grow in the deep gold. Her dam, my bay mare is the same way, very dark when clipped, dappled, no face mask, but her dorsal has lines or stripes generating out from it around her withers.
Referencing the last sentence above, this gene modifier is what they are studying relating to *Brindle*. Sooty/smutty is not completely understood yet, there is no homozygosity involved, it might be more of a dominant like dun. I don't know.
Silver Black/ Silver Dapple =same thing different words My Lily has three different shades in the year just like Jill's. Often called chocolate palomino by some people.
chandab
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Mona
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Yep, I agree. He looks silver black to me as well.
rubyviewminis
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A very nice looking silver black
disneyhorse
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Mydaddysjaq... That horse looks like a silver buckskin to me.
mydaddysjag
Well-Known Member
He was a palomino, sire was palomino, dam was a sorrel pinto, no silver in either parent, and no dark points (legs are dusty in one picture from playing in a deep sand arena) Let me see if I have any other better pictures of him.
mydaddysjag
Well-Known Member
Heres a picture of him right around when I bought him from his breeder, weanling in winter coat. You can see he has no dark points or silver points. He didnt get the chocolate shade until he was five, and its his entire body, not just points. In person in his regular non clipped coat it was very evident he was palomino, he was quite yellow, but would lose his color when clipped.
