What makes them famous?

[Lizzie]

A couple of years ago, I asked on our Gypsy Horse forum, what the membership thought made some horses famous. I wondered if it might promote some thoughts here also.

 

What brought it to mind, was that I was looking at a very famous horse. There were good conformation shots of him and it suddenly struck me, that he really wasn't very good. Certainly he has some nice offspring, but considering the large number of babies he has produced, there should have been at least, a few nice ones.

 

So what makes some stallions famous, when maybe they are not really incredible representatives of their breed? What makes people flock to them? Is it enormous advertising by their owners? Is it that they might be a rare or desirable colour? Is it numerous show wins - deserved or not? Is it that some breed to a stallion to be associated with a famous breeder and their horses? Is it that the owners keep him in the public eye and we might be brainwashed into thinking a horse is better than he is?

 

So it set me thinking and wondering, if sometimes we rather blindly breed to a famous horse without really looking at him with a critical eye?

What say you?

 

Lizzie

 

 

 

[lucky lodge]

I dont no, but id like to no what eveyone thinks

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

It's hard to respond to this without knowing of which horse you're speaking. (Besides it's late so a quick response!)

When I think of 'famous horses' in the Mini breed (Rowdy, Buckeroo, Orion, Egyptian King, Uno de Mayo, Blue Boy, etc.) all have proven themselves outside the splashy photo and hype. And I'm not talking the flavor of the month that just won a title and disappears off the radar soon after. Are there faults with any of them? Sure. There isn't a perfect horse born. But those I named and many others have influenced and helped shape the current Mini breed.

So, what I look/consider 'famous' are the stallions/mares that have a consistency in their look/type and have repeated that in their get and grand-get. I mean, if the best looking stallion or mare can't replicate or improve on themselves aren't worth much IMHO. It's silly to buy hype but people do.

But, names do sell. Tastes change and what was popular three years ago may not be today or tomorrow. Minis are still an evolving breed (technically still a height registry) as we've yet to have a set look/type as can be seen by doing research on what has transpired in the past 30 years. That is also true in any breed/species of animal.

The well advertised/promoted stallion will be viewed more favorably, usually by those new to the breed.

Good topic.

 

[kaykay]

So what makes some stallions famous, when maybe they are not really incredible representatives of their breed? What makes people flock to them? Is it enormous advertising by their owners? Is it that they might be a rare or desirable colour? Is it numerous show wins - deserved or not? Is it that some breed to a stallion to be associated with a famous breeder and their horses? Is it that the owners keep him in the public eye and we might be brainwashed into thinking a horse is better than he is?

All of the above!

But remember what one person thinks is a bad representative another thinks is stunning.

I have seen many newbies over the years buy from "big name farms" only to be very disappointed. Others were estatic.

Marketing and promotion are huge though.

 

[targetsmom]

I think the important flip side of this (promotion and marketing) is that if you know what to look for, there are plenty of not-so-famous minis that might be JUST AS NICE as the famous ones. You just don't hear about them. Maybe they aren't shown for one reason or another, or they are shown but not heavily promoted. Or they only have a few foals...

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Interesting topic. I too think about this topic in that o give a lot of thought to what makes and "outstanding" stallion. I agree with Michelle on that the horses she listed had great success and impact on the breed. I'm personally In the middle of some research into this very subject and a point that is important to me is the "what have you done for me lately" perspective. There are horses, like Gold Melody Boy, that had a give impact on the breed, but we are now let with grandget, great grandget, etc. Same with Buckeroo, although he has get that are still competing, but the overwhelming number of wins by his get are from the 80's and 90's.

So, for me, it's about who is winning today and who's get is winning today. When I look at it that way, my research shows horses such as Billy Idol, Blue Ribbon Mr Bodacious, Cutty, Black Velvet, Prince, and several others are the ones who are producing get that are winning today, not 20 years ago. There is also a mare, whose name escapes me at the moment, owned by Ravenwood, that until I started researching I'd never heard of. She's got like 6 World or Grand champion foals! That's one heck of a record!

When a horse, stallion or mare, can CONSISTENTLY produce at that level, that's what I consider fame-worthy.

 

[Jill]

A small circle of awareness helps!!!

Some horses have the right combination of good conformation, beauty and attitude... then their people employ different marketing techniques and BINGO -- a star is born.

 

[Kendra]

Advertising makes horses famous.

 

[Minimor]

Everything you said, Lizzie! The truth is a good many people will rave over a lesser quality stallion that is owned by a big name farm than they will over a better quality stallion that is owned by a nobody. People will flock to the big name farm to buy horses but not walk across the street to buy a good horse from the nobody.

And yes, many times people DO breed blindly to a famous horse. Or they buy offspring of that famous horse, but they buy blindly, picking a horse for the fact that it is sired by that famous horse and priced in their price range, and they don't realize they are buying the farm's culls. They are simply happy to have a horse of 'that' breeding, with 'that' prefix on it.

I am always amazed that there are still so many people who cannot see beyond the prefix and a big name or two in the pedigree.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Advertising...

Showing is also important but I guarantee you if you win at Nationals last year not many will remember this year. Not unless you keep advertising about your horse's wins. If he is consistently winning then people will start remebering. If that stallion or mare's foals consistently win then people will start noticing. So you can see that showing is important.

However I think advertising is the big majority of it. I think people will start to advertise more. I flip thru the World mag. today and I was shocked to see the barcodes for your smartphones. And more people are advertising to like their page on Facebook. I even put an ad in the Journal for the first time cause I love the new Journal and I'm happy to be able to advertise in it now.

 

[bannerminis]

People over here are obsessed with registries nearly more then breeding lines. If its not AMHA then some people dont want to know even if a another horse with some similar lines might even be the better horse it will be overlooked by the AMHA obsessed.

It still irks me that we pay all the membership but cant hardship a miniature with the AMHA.

Its a pity it cant be done in a way that the horse has to qualify for AMHA papers under an american judge.

I have a mix of horses with a range of bloodlines which are English and American.

 

[Lizzie]

I have been interested in reading all your replies. Just wanted to make it clear however, that in my original post, I was not speaking of Minis, but reprinting something I had written and asked a while back, on my Gypsy Horse forum.

I think the answers and thoughts on Gypsies, were much the same as I have seen here. Like Minis, there are a huge array of colours in Gypsies. Many of us thought that fad colours played a huge part in what made a certain horse suddenly gain fame. That because many flocked to breed to him. Advertising and promoting by the owner also seemed to sometimes almost brainwash people into thinking a horse was (maybe) better than he was. We humans do tend to believe something, if we are told often enough. A huge advertising budget, never made a good horse.

Something else which comes to mind, is how a horse is pictured. Many of us never actually see in person, the stallion we breed to. Fabulous pics can make a poor horse took quite wonderful and hide many faults. Awful pics, can make a super horse look dreadful. It really can be very difficult, to make the right breeding decisions. Sometimes more difficult in Minis, since they grow such huge coats and it's hard to see the horse underneath. I used to wonder why so many Mini owners shave their horses. Now I know - and it's not just because of the weather.

Lizzie

 

[targetsmom]

Something else which comes to mind, is how a horse is pictured. Many of us never actually see in person, the stallion we breed to. Fabulous pics can make a poor horse took quite wonderful and hide many faults. Awful pics, can make a super horse look dreadful. It really can be very difficult, to make the right breeding decisions.

Lizzie

And in this age of Photoshop, one cannot be too careful... because, yes, a fabulous pic can make a poor horse look quite wonderful.

 

[Lizzie]

I'm glad you brought that up Diane. I have been looking at a ton of stallions lately and have made a list of many I like and their backgrounds. There really are many extraordinarily good ones out there. Obviously if people don't advertise, nobody will find them. However, one thing which bothers me, is that while many advertise their stallions, show good conformation shots etc., few state whether or not they are at stud, their stud fee and whether or not they offer frozen/chilled semen. In most breeds stallion owners state this, or if their stallion is not at stud to outside mares. I just came across a stallion this morning, whom I absolutely love, but nothing is said about his stud services etc.

Lizzie

 

[targetsmom]

The AMHA Miniature Horse World magazine Feb/Mar edition carries a Breeders Directory, just for that purpose. The 2011 issue is online at

http://www.branchsmith.com/eBook/AMHA/27555_AMHA/27555_AMHA/

 

[Lizzie]

Thanks so much. I don't see the magazine unless I visit my daughter. Never thought of looking at it on the net. Duh!

Lizzie

 

[ruffian]

'Same with Buckeroo, although he has get that are still competing, but the overwhelming number of wins by his get are from the 80's and 90's. "

This is simply not true. My stallion is a Buckeroo Grandson and he is the AMHA World Grand Champion Senior Stallion in 2009. He was AMHR Top 5 the same year, so he did very well in both registries World/National show. The Supreme champions at this year's Julep Cup are Buckeroo offspring. Buckeroo has and is still present in many of the top horses in both registries winning today.

To me bloodlines will get my attention, but the horse itself is what is making the sale.

IMO Consistency in conformation and performance arenas makes a horse famous. If advertising made them famous, there would be several farms who would have their horses' names in everybody's pedigree. I could name a very famous farm that threw tons of money into advertising and promoting, and nowadays you very seldom hear their name in the show ring or pedigree searches.

Buckeroo was and is widely advertised, but very few of the other "name brand" stallions, such as Rowdy, Rhoten's Little Dandy, Blue Boy, are vitually invisible in advertising except perhaps as a byline - my horse is a grandson, great grandson, etc. But anybody seriously in the miniature horse business knows who they are. (I know there are a lot of other stallions and mares that could be named, but this is just for example.)

 

[iowa]

'Same with Buckeroo, although he has get that are still competing, but the overwhelming number of wins by his get are from the 80's and 90's. "

This is simply not true. My stallion is a Buckeroo Grandson and he is the AMHA World Grand Champion Senior Stallion in 2009. He was AMHR Top 5 the same year, so he did very well in both registries World/National show. The Supreme champions at this year's Julep Cup are Buckeroo offspring. Buckeroo has and is still present in many of the top horses in both registries winning today.

Glad you mentioned that. Buckaroo also was the Get of Sire Champion at AMHA World Show a couple times in the 2000's (Can't remember the years, but not too long ago.

 

[ohmt]

StarRidge was not saying that Buckeroo's get and grandget haven't won since 2000 came along-what she was saying was that back in the 80's and 90's was when his get and grandget were winning everything-no other stallion's get could touch the amount of wins his get won. Yes, his get and grandget still win quite a bit, but now not every world grand and world champion is sired by Buckeroo though many do go back to him which shows how well he has shaped the miniature 'breed'. Nobody was throwing Buckeroo under the bus.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Dana, I in no way meant to discount Thumper's amazing accomplishment. I was simply stating a fact that in the 80's and 90's Buckeroo dominated the ring with his get. Statistically, other stallions' get are dominating now. I'm not taking away from Thumper's wonderful accomplishment! He's an incredible horse!

'Same with Buckeroo, although he has get that are still competing, but the overwhelming number of wins by his get are from the 80's and 90's. "

This is simply not true. My stallion is a Buckeroo Grandson and he is the AMHA World Grand Champion Senior Stallion in 2009. He was AMHR Top 5 the same year, so he did very well in both registries World/National show. The Supreme champions at this year's Julep Cup are Buckeroo offspring. Buckeroo has and is still present in many of the top horses in both registries winning today.

To me bloodlines will get my attention, but the horse itself is what is making the sale.

IMO Consistency in conformation and performance arenas makes a horse famous. If advertising made them famous, there would be several farms who would have their horses' names in everybody's pedigree. I could name a very famous farm that threw tons of money into advertising and promoting, and nowadays you very seldom hear their name in the show ring or pedigree searches.

Buckeroo was and is widely advertised, but very few of the other "name brand" stallions, such as Rowdy, Rhoten's Little Dandy, Blue Boy, are vitually invisible in advertising except perhaps as a byline - my horse is a grandson, great grandson, etc. But anybody seriously in the miniature horse business knows who they are. (I know there are a lot of other stallions and mares that could be named, but this is just for example.)