Would like suggestions on tests to ask vet for?

[Locketlady]

We have two mini mares a mother and daughter ages 6 and 11.

This winter no matter how much hay and grain they get I am having trouble keeping weight on momma.

Am getting ready to try some beet pulp.

Yes they are wormed regularly and I do alternate wormers.

I'm at the point of calling the vet out. However some of the vets around here will test any critter to death as

long as the owner will fork out the money. Would appreciate some suggestions pre and post vet appt

on things I can do and tests I should ask the vet to do.

So far 1) They are getting all the local grass hay they can eat.

2) I give them a cup and a half of senior grain am and pm.

Someone told me to start the momma on beet pulp. I've no experience with it and would

appreciate some information on it.

And we're in the Pac NW and the weather has not been at all cold. Above normal temps.

Thank you

 

[Jean_B]

Senior feed has hay/roughage in it as it is intended to be a "complete" feed - so you are actually reducing your mare's protein and nutrient intake if you are feeding it like a normal 10% or 12% protein feed. You would be much better off not using senior feed at all (if her teeth are good) and giving her a 12% or 14% feed...and a cup and a half is not enough, in my opinion.

 

[Locketlady]

I didn't think a cup and a half twice a day was either, what would you suggest for them?

I was told by a Mini Breeder to use Senior feed. Their teeth are fairly good. Our farrier took a look

and suggested that one have a dental due to a hook in the back.

What brand and type of feed would you recommend and how much would you recommend?

What we're doing is keeping nice weight on the 6 y/o daughter but not the 11 y/o mother.

PS: All my prior experience is with full sized horses so any input would be so very much appreciated.

These girls came to us from someone getting rid of them when their grandchild moved out.

They are a mother/daughter who are meant to be pets and never bred.

I tracked down the breeder a year back and she mentioned (which can be easily seen) she sent them to a pet

home to never be bred as momma was cow hocked and she tried one breeding and she passed it on to her daughter.

The breeder didn't want either to ever be bred again which I can totally respect. They are pasture pets to love, groom and adore.

 

[chandab]

First off, how big are they? How tall? If you have a weight, great, if not, the height will help us guesstimate. What kind of build? Slight build, more horse like? Or, more stocky, pony type build? Where is the older mare needing weight? Can you feel her spine/hips? Can you feel her ribs? Both?

They are still horses, so in general treat them as you would treat any horse with a few modifications. [Obviously, they get fed less than a fullsize horse, but how much less will depend on how big they are.] Senior can be a great feed to feed minis, but as Jean said its a complete feed, so meant to be fed in fairly large quantities (like for a typical 300# mini, you might feed 3# of senior along with 3# hay; or if complete diet 5-6# senior only - they all have slightly different feeding directions, but this is what my senior recommends).

 

[Jean_B]

It depends on how big they are. I would either switch to a regular feed OR give a LOT more senior feed, in which case they won't need - or probably not want - a lot of additional hay, but leave it out there in case they want it. Read the senior feed bag to see what the recommended amount is by weight and give the underweight one the amount recommended where no other hay is given (but like I said, leave some out, just in case they need to graze). And I highly recommend you find someone who is a certified equine dentist to do their teeth.

Good luck!

 

[Locketlady]

Thank you both so much. I'll up their gain a little at a time starting tonight.

Going to ask our vet if he is a certified equine dental vet or to refer me to one.

They are not at all stocky. They are in the 31 and 32 inch range and not stocky nor are they refined.

Since our areas is a selenium deficient area would you recommend supplements?

 

[targetsmom]

I would test the hay since that is really the bulk of the diet for both of them. We feed local (to us) grass hay and one year it was about 9% protein and last year it was 14% protein and low starch. If it isn't quality hay it won't really help a lot to feed more. The other thing would be to just increase the Senior feed as has been said.

You can get selenium in a salt block OR in a supplement but be careful not to overdo it either.

 

[disneyhorse]

Did I miss info on how recent their teeth have been floated?

 

[Locketlady]

I've no idea when or if they have had their teeth floated, Have not had them all their life.

Going to call the vet in the am to see if he is certified or knows of a certified equine dentist.

The farrier looked and felt in their mouth and feels a hook in the back.

Where can I send the hay to be tested?

We're going to start upping their grain tonight but not all at once.

Should I try a little beet pulp as someone recommended (not on here but someone I called)

until her weight is back up? Or should I stay away from it?

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

I would recommend a fecal egg count done to determine if your horse is wormy. Regular de-worming can lead to parasite resistence. All you need to do is collect a fresh sample right before the vet comes. They are pretty cheap ($10-$20) and I'm sure your horse will appreciate it more than a blood draw.

 

[Locketlady]

The blood draw was just a thought to do a panel/work up to make sure all is ok with organ functions.

It's just weird the younger one is doing fine but the momma is having trouble keeping weight on.

I so do appreciate all the input.

One question I had was where can one send in hay samples to be evaluated?

What opinions do you all have on local (and I do mean local, right down the street fields) hay verses maybe putting them

on orchard grass hay?

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Did I miss info on how recent their teeth have been floated?

If they cannot grind their food properly, they cannot process it properly. Definitely get the teeth checked. Unless your vet is exceptional, I would opt instead for an equine dentist. You can contact your state veterinary board to see if there is one near you. So worth it!!

Good luck, and kudos to you for being alert to their condition!

 

[chandab]

Your County Extension Agent might have a source for local hay testing, some feed stores or grain elevators test; but nationally its Equi-Analytical: http://www.equi-analytical.com/ Your basic test for hay is the Trainer @ $54 which tests the hay for lots of things. If you just want to know protein you can do a custom test, for like $15.

 

[JAX]

Ok I used to feed senior to one of mine and I believe that 1.5 cups weighed just a smidgen over 1/2 a pound. Purina website says that a 600lb horse should get 8lbs per day minimum. I normally feed my guys for about 300 lbs and then adjust + or - from there depending on if they need to lose or gain after I see how they do on that amount of that feed. Your girls are getting 3 cups per day each which would amount to about one pound per day. One pound a day would be for a horse that should weigh 75 pounds. That is not nearly enough. I personally would grab a scale and double check the measurements and math as I am very tired and may have made a mistake but if my tired mind is working correctly then I would think your girl needs closer to 4lbs per day which would be 2 lbs twice a day so that makes 6 cups twice a day... oh my I am confusing myself... lol please check that before you give her that much as Im very serious about being tired. Go to Purina Horse Feeds website and hit Equine Senior on the left side then hit the tab on top that says feeding directions. Grab a cheap food scale from grocery store or walmart or somewhere cheap. Do the math and go from there. If the one girl is doing fine then maybe she is just an easy keeper and doesn't need much. But it sounds like the other is needing more. Is there any chance that the one is stealing food from the other?

I apologize again if my math or measurements are off, maybe someone else here can help with checking these.

Good luck with your girls!!

 

[Locketlady]

We stay until all feed is finished to prevent one from eating hers and then the others.

 

[paintponylvr]

Our local County Extension Office will come out and test hay for $10. I have to schedule an appointment, then they bring the "bale bore" out and bore out samples. They prefer to do more than one bale at a time and not after it's already out with the horses, being chewed on. I purchase local round bales to feed ours - but my main supplier bales hay in different fields, different areas so even a 1st cut - every bale can test different. Then I get small squares from a couple of different suppliers AND sometimes have had suppliers run out and have then purchased from others. Each grower has different hay - due to different ground conditions, different fertilization and even different seed (there are about 5 different types of Coastal/Bermuda I'm familiar with and we found that the ponies will not eat the Tipton #88 and don't do well on #44, but love #41 and do well on #42). My suppliers up here can't (or won't) even tell me what type of coastal they have planted and don't seem to care!

Last year we were inundated with rain and non-drying periods. So many of our hay producers lost their hay fields - one guy burned off his 2nd cutting - over 80 acres of land - hoping to get the 3rd cut growing when he couldn't get into the fields to cut it. He got a 1st cutting and the 2nd cutting was done in the fall when he should have been getting a 3rd or 4th cutting. Another supplier a freind uses also ended up burning off his fields he told her that he did 40 acres in one field and over a 100 in another and with the rain/snow that we've had this winter - who knows if we will have any hay at all this year!

I was in shock when I went to the 2013 NC State Fair and found the exhibit on NC hays. NONE of them had over 10% protein, most were around 6%, and ALL of them had over 35% acid something or another (can't remember, don't have it handy) - bad for horses of all types. This was state wide and VERY unusual... Two of those samples had been provided by two different suppliers I purchase hay from. All the samples were very pretty and smelled good. You couldn't tell by looking at it that it wasn't good for your horses! Explains a lot about the struggles we've had this past year keeping ours looking good. This isn't the first/only year that we've had problems, either.

*****

Not all Senior feeds are made the same. Most Sr feeds have beet pulp added already and some don't. If yours has beet pulp already, then there really isn't any reason to add beet pulp UNLESS YOUR VET recommends it for your case. Some of my seniors have done well on senior feed - others have done better on regular feed with soaked alfalfa and beet pulp. Some beet pulp has molasses added - I use w/o molasses. Back to the "soaked alfalfa" - one was having problems with her teeth and couldn't eat the baled alfalfa I could get here. We tried the alfalfa cubes and even soaked - she didn't like it. Went to pellets - soaked - she loved them and did well - putting all her weight back on and living another year before we had her euthanized with her partner at 20 years of age (she looked great and was doing well, but I didn't want to take the chance she'd suddenly get depressed w/ her partner gone and have to call the vet and the back hoe back out. Just so you know - my vet didn't agree with me. My family DID however and understood why I did things the way that I chose to).

Over the last 19 years of having shetlands in 3 different states and several areas w/i those states, I've learned that you really have to "play" with your feed. The main thing is feeding enough of whatever you find that works for you in your area in combination with your hay and pasture.

Dental care and worming, as well as pasture care, do play a part in weight loss/gain as well. I know that I probably follow a vastly different worming/vaccination protocol simply because of the part of the country I live in vs where you are located. The number of ponies that I have living on our 9 acres makes a difference too.

 

[paintponylvr]

We have two mini mares a mother and daughter ages 6 and 11.

This winter no matter how much hay and grain they get I am having trouble keeping weight on momma.

Am getting ready to try some beet pulp.

Yes they are wormed regularly and I do alternate wormers.

I'm at the point of calling the vet out. However some of the vets around here will test any critter to death as

long as the owner will fork out the money. Would appreciate some suggestions pre and post vet appt

on things I can do and tests I should ask the vet to do.

So far 1) They are getting all the local grass hay they can eat.

2) I give them a cup and a half of senior grain am and pm.

Someone told me to start the momma on beet pulp. I've no experience with it and would

appreciate some information on it.

And we're in the Pac NW and the weather has not been at all cold. Above normal temps.

Thank you

Went back and re-read your original post. I seemed to have replied more to other posts than to yours.

Ask your vet:

1 - about dental in general for both and in particular for your older mare.

2 - about ABOVE NORMAL TEMPS for your area - Ask vet how you deal with your horse with that scenario! Some horses do BAD when the weather drastically changes. We are having below normal temps and DRASTIC temperature swings up and down here - 4x the amounts of colics and weight loss due to this in our area.

3 - about your horse's weights and how to figure them out.

4 - about your feeding program. Is what I'm feeding appropriate for both? Is it the correct amounts? If not - what should I be giving one vs the other? How much more should I be feeding?

5 - if blood work is necessary and what am I testing for? What will it show? Why are we testing for it? Is there something else to try first?

Beet pulp - in general:

There are now several different kinds of beet pulp available. There are shreds with molasses, shreds w/o molasses and pelleted beet pulp. May even be more than that. Until I moved down to NC, I'd never heard of Beet Pulp. Now, it seems to have swept the horse industry by "storm"... I want to say that when I first started adding beet pulp to our ponies diets - at our vets' recommendation - that it seemed to be much higher in protein than it is now. It seemed to help a lot of horses and ponies gain weight - we used it to help make sure that everything stayed "moving" correctly in our sandy environment. Now most folks in a sandy environment feed Sand Clear or some other type of physillium product. Beet pulp doesn't seem to have the nutritional values now that it once did - BUT it still seems to work well as a fiber that helps to keep everything moving regularly... So.

I've gotten used to feeding beet pulp and have now been feeding it since april 1997. I feed it wet and cold during the summer and wet and hot on our coldest days. Our ponies LOVE their hot mash on the cold winter days. I'm tired! But I find joy in listening to the ponies all start whinnying when I arrive home from work at nite and when I feed in the mornings on my days off... I've gone up and down - sometimes I feed it once a day and others I feed it 2x daily. I'm not sure at this point which is better. I generally go with it's better for them to have less more often - same as any other feed. That's healthier for the horse.

 

[HGFarm]

Have not read all the posts but when was the last time their teeth were checked for hooks, spikes, etc...?? No matter what or how much you feed them, if they cannot chew properly, they will not do well. If you have not had this done, I would certainly check both of them for any dental issues by a qualified equine dentist or a vet that is experienced in this field.

 

[Marty]

I'm not saying what you should do but I'm saying what I would do if this were my horse.

And consider if your horse has a longer back sometimes its harder to keep the top line covered.

I would not be rushing to a blood test. That would be a last resort.

I'd do the obvious: increase the feed. And Purina Sr. is good stuff. I'd address feed changes way later and that would be a "maybe"

Hello tape worms? De-worm with zimectrin gold. Make sure it says "GOLD" Not my favorite de-wormer but that one does get the tapes and that is the only reason I'd suggest it. Be sure you are giving enough of it. I tend to overdose by 50 pounds because I am a known klutz.

Dental float. Oh heck yes. Let's have a hooker free mare

The hay can be worrisome because what works on a big horse can be too coarse and not palatable for a mini. If it is "straw-like" therein lies your problem. Low quality hay can wreck your feed program real quick. Could be hard to find something decent in the dead of winter like this and may you can. But if you can't find a hay supply you can trust at this moment, I'd get some bagged hay at Tractor Supply. Last but not least, the hay is what keeps them warm during winter and if they are cold, they will drop weight using up all their other resources to stay warm.

And one more, no two more: dose with Probios a couple times a week for a jump start. Just because. It never hurts.

Other thing is to consider that 99% horses on earth have ulcers and most never display it. But outward signs can be loss of appetite /weight and depression so keep an eye on that.

Beet pulp:

For two horses

2 cups shredded beet pulp to 2 cup warm water.

Soak for anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour or as long as you like (in winter) adding more water as it soaks in and expands until it is somewhat of a sloppy but not too drippy or watery consistency

I serve it for lunch daily in bad weather and sometimes add chopped carrots. It is an acquired taste because it stinks but once they get used to it they will eat it gladly

 

[Marty]

I came back to address the hay again. Hay is the basis of my feed program so I can't mess around. The "down the street locals" as you call them may be cow farmers or people that just mow and bale to make some money. This can be our worst nightmare because they will sell you anything and tell you its "good horse hay" "I sell a lot of it to horse people" when its nothing but junk and weeds with no value. You need to really take heed in finding a good hay farmer that fertilizes and grows quality hay. If you are new to hays. the best thing to do would be to contact your better upscale stables and ask them what grass hay they use and where they get it. A quality stable will not mess around. I use orchard grass personally because that is native where I live but there are some hay farmers that do not fertilize, or bale it at the right time, or bale it wet, and that destroys it so you need to find a "respectable" hay farmer that cares and stands by their product. If you bale hay too late in the season it will be too coarse to eat. If you bale it damp or wet, 3 months later you will find its gone to mold and will kill your horses so you must be careful. I have to travel to the other part of our state every year just to get my hay but I know it is going to be weed free, no waste and no nonsense.