# Foals poop...(sorry! LOL)



## Mona (Apr 15, 2009)

Just wondering how many poops a day is normal for a foal of a week to 10 days old. I have never known or paid attention, as I have straw bedding, so often don't see it. Just wondering how many times a day they actually do poop, and hoping those of you that use shavings might have a better idea. I am having troubles with my fiilly. She is not totally blocked, as some is moving through, but not enough, I am sure. I am working on it and have been since Sunday evening. At least SOME is better than none, right??!!


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## Baptism (Apr 15, 2009)

Good question, don't be sorry. If that isn't working everything else will shut down too !

I had a foal similar to this. I didn't know exactly what was the right number of poops but my gut (and mother's instinct) told me more would be better.

I took the little filly to the vet and he determined that the last 6" (more or less) of her rectum had weak muscles or poor muscle tone. I had to give the filly a warm Ivory Soap and water enema twice a day. It got so she would be laying down sunning herself and I would walk up, make my deposit and leave without any notice. After a few minutes she would get up and poop. I did this for 2 months. I used a baby's Fleet Enema bottle.


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## Mona (Apr 15, 2009)

Thanks Baptism for your reply. This is what has been going on...

The filly was born just after 2:00 Sunday, April 5. All was fine until Sunday evening, April 12. I noticed she was moving her legs alot while sleeping...like she was kicking and uncomfortable...not the usual "running in their sleep" that they often do. She was also chewing at her flanks, kicking her back legs straight out behind her, getting up and down a lot, not real active, but not depressed either. I thought maybe she was bunged up for some reason, so I gave her a Mineral Oil/warm water and soap enema. I stayed and watched until she pooped, and all that came out was what I put in, and a turd...just one, and it looked like it was being shot through a peas-shooter! She was still very uncomfortable much later into the evening, so I gave her 20-33cc of Mineral Oil orally. It was a 35cc syringe, and looked to have space for 5 more cc in the end, unmarked area. I got most into her, so am guessing it was closer to 30cc. By about 1:30, she was really acting worse, so I gave her 1/4cc Banamine to settle her and give the Mineral Oil time to kick in. She was much more at ease throughout the night. She was never thrashing around or rolling.

Monday morning I gave her another enema, this time only warm soapy water, as i wanted to be able to tell when the poop came out with the oil. Again I waited until she pooped, and again it was mostly water...no poop to speak of really. She had been eating very well all along, and peeing lots, and it was clear, so not dehydrated at all. There were a couple very tiny balls of poop and some sort of whitish, sticky something! I am thinking maybe bile from the bowel? Anyway, this basically told be she had a blockage going in, not coming out, as there should have been manure in there! I removed all the bedding from the stall, and hung a muck bucket to feed the mare her hay in, and hung it high enough the filly could not get into it. With nothing in the stall, I could monitor her bowel movements. I placed the water bucket on the floor so the filly could drink that too if she wanted, hoping to moisten whatever was plugged. She never pooped until between 6:00 and 8:30pm. I was so happy to see it! It was formed like dog poo and kind of hard, and had a touch more of that bile stuff in it. I was so excited to think we were going to be OK! All last night, all today...nothing!!! Waterwoks are A-OK, no poop! I gave her 30cc of Dioctyl today, as it works like a laxative too. She was a little more crampy again late today, but not as bad as the first night. Like clockwork, between 6:00 and 6:30 tonight, she had her second poop...only ONE poop in the 24hour period though!




This was close to the same as last one, but not as hard, but still no real sign of the mineral oil coming out yet.



By now, she should have had the "Hershey Squirts" I would have thought. I know they need to poop more often than once a day, but I am trying all I can. At least I know now that it is moving something through, and not a total blockage. I will give her more oil again tomorrow. She is more comfortable again tonight, and was playing some, and awake more. Hopefully she is starting to improve.

Before anyone tells me to go to the vet with her, we do not have one! I am doing everything I can at home for her for now, and she is not suffering...believe me, that will not happen if it gets that bad!


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## Baptism (Apr 15, 2009)

Kind of sounds like a constipated texture of poop. As long as you are getting results I would sure keep up with the mild enemas and I guess the mineral oil can't hurt as long as you can get it where it needs to go. My filly, at a day of age, showed all the classic discomfort signs of colic. It is so scary to see that in a baby. I would aim for at least two poops a day. I think that will maintain comfort but I think less is still in the worrisome range. At least that is what worked for me. It would be nice to be able to add fat to the diet but that is hard to do for the little ones. I wonder if corn oil would help any. But, it sounds to me like you will for sure have to keep up enemas for awhile.


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Apr 15, 2009)

Mona, I am no vet but it is my experience that when there is a whiteish clear stuff around the manure, that it is actually mucous, and a sign to me that the manure has been in there too long and perhaps a bit dehydrated.. Does your foal nurse as often as normally seen? Is your mare's bag soft as usual after they nurse well? I think you are right on the mark about giving something orally also to push the manure through from above. What about a couple of cc

s of Milk of Magnesia? I do give it to adult minis to get things moving during a colic, to push through from above.

As I say, I am not a vet, but I would give that a try if I didn't have a vet to talk to.

I volunteered at U of P. New Bolton center for a few foaling seasons and it is NOT UNCOMMON to have constipation for many days after birth, from what I saw in the neonatal ICU there. They were giving enemas alot there.

Good Luck,

Robin


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## kaykay (Apr 15, 2009)

As said above mucus is a bad sign meaning the manure stayed in too long (thats what my vet told me)

I happened to have our vet out a couple weeks ago and asked him to give my colt an enema as I couldnt seem to get much in him and he had really been straining for 2 days. Let me tell you vets are much more aggressive giving an enema. He gave him the entire bottle of kids fleet enema. Now normally I just squirt a little bit in but he said when they are that stopped up you have to get more aggressive. I have to say it worked and he finally passed a huge amount of manure for a little foal

I know one time also I took a 2 month filly to the hospital (colic from moms hair) and they also were very much more aggressive with enemas and gave the entire bottle in one application.


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## 1keegan (Apr 15, 2009)

Mona,

We're dealing with a similar situation. Our 11 day old colt passed orange manure for a couple days, then stopped pooping altogether. He didn't show as much discomfort as your little one though.

The vet came out, digitally checked him and didn't feel anything, checked for a hernia, gave him 1/2 a child's enema and got a small, dark dog-type turd. An hour later we gave the other half, without anything coming out.

The next day vet said to give 2.5 cc of mineral oil, twice a day until manure turns normal/orange again. He too, said we should be seeing the squirts soon when the mare goes into foal heat.

For 4 days now we've found one small dog-type turd each morning- they're starting to get softer, but still dark and small.

Best of luck-

LG


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## pepperhill (Apr 15, 2009)

Sounds like you are doing everything right for the little guy. Just keep at it. One last thought, sometimes an aggressive tummy massage gets things moving. You have to really get in there and squeeze and rub and push things along. Sometimes you can even feel the little bricks in there. The doctor taught me that little trick with my colicky daughter and then the vet reminded me of it when I had a bound up foal a few years ago. It seemed to stimulate things to get moving and it did help. Best wishes.


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## wildoak (Apr 15, 2009)

Mona, we had a similar deal with our colt this year. I gave him an enema his first day - I usually do with colts unless it's obvious they don't need it - and things loosened up temporarily. By the second day he was obviously uncomfortable and not passing anything much - what little he did pass had a good bit of mucous. This one did end up spending a couple of days at the vet, as I couldn't seem to get him going, and came home with things working pretty well (and spoiled lol). He's about 6 weeks old now and fine, but I notice that his manure is still a little on the hard side of normal.

Don't know how you do it without a vet nearby, guess you become very resourceful! I would keep at what you are doing, be sure she's nursing enough & if she's uncomfortable maybe a little tiny bit of banamine to relax her.

Jan


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## ~Lisa~ (Apr 15, 2009)

I would do a soapy or even just plain warm water enema 2 times a day for now and I know you want to see what she is passing but is she getting turn out time at all? I think being able to run and well even have to walk around to keep up with mom for a few hours might help things get moving again as well.


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## Joanne (Apr 15, 2009)

You do not want to use plain water enemas as they are to irritating to the gut. You need to use saline, soapy water, or mineral oil.

There is some concern about long term mineral oil as it can coat the gut and cause dehydration as the foal cannot absorb water due to the oil coating.

Apple juice, or even better a mix of apple juice and pedialite orally might be of help. Some foals will drink out of a margarine container and that is safer that syringing.

If mom can get out on grass and, like Lisa said, move around a bit, that might help. Mom's milk is excellent and usually keeps everything moving.

It sounds to me like a dehydration problem.


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## Mona (Apr 15, 2009)

Thanks to all for your input. It is greatly appreciated! I will try to address a few things here. First of all, sorry if this is too gross, (I take these often gross pics for learning and future reference) but here are pictures of the whitish mucous stuff that came out in the enema poop.
















I have not been giving any more enemas since the first 2 as I thought the impaction was up higher than that...like it's not stuck right there is her bum, but maybe up higher between her stomach and bowel?? That is why I have been trying to treat from the upper end more than the lower end. I just assumed this because they did not result in anything coming out.

Kay, I have not been too gentle with the enemas, or at least not what I think is too gentle. I give a full 4 oz enema each time, so I think that is plenty??

Jan, I gave her 1/4cc Banamine the first night when she was most uncomfortable, but I really don't want to give it unless she is in bad need of it, as I don't want to cause her ulcers right now. I am watching her like a hawk, and can see when she is too uncomfortable and can give more when it gets that bad again. I also want to be sure it doesn't just mask things making me think all is OK. She is not rolling or anything, so it's not that bad. She is definately feeling better than that first night, and she must be getting stronger or smarter, because she sure put up a battle for her mineral oil treatment this morning!

Lisa and Joanne, I have not been able to get her outside. It is MAJOR Spring here...spring melting, and my round pen off the barn is under water pretty much, and the other pen were not used throughout the winter so are all still full of snow yet. (and melting, so cannot put horses in them) DEFINTELY no green grass...that is a good month, month and a half away yet, so that is not an option at all, no way, no how.






I have been running the mare and filly up and down the barn aisleway a couple times a day so she can move around more than in the stall, but after yesterday, I played her out to bad doing it that way, and she was breathing *very* hard...obviously I over exerted her so don;t want to do that again! So I put a bunch of staw down along with one side of the round pen where it was not under water, and let the mare and foal out there for a short time for exercise...about 15 or 20 minutes I guess. Just long enough to give her some fresh air a chance to move around some.

As for her nursing, she is nursing a LOT! (and well!) I have been watching her almost non-stop on my barn cam and go and spend a lot of time out in the barn just watching up close and personal too. She is nursing very well! I also took the 2 or 3 gallon water pail down off the hanger in the stall, and instead put a 5 gallon pail on the floor keeping it filled to the top so she can drink that too, hoping to get more liquid in to loosen the inpaction. I normally keep the water up so the foals cannot drink much when they are so young as I have read time and time again where they fill themselves up on the water and don't nurse. BUT, that is not happening here with this girl. She has a strong voracious appetite! No problem with that.


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Apr 15, 2009)

hmmm. almost looks like a combination of mucous and the yellow poop after they nurse.

Just another thought... do you have any pancake syrup or molasses? Not to be gross but did you have have to "GO" after a good breakfast of pancakes? Its the pancake syrup that does it. All that sugar.

When I have a mini that colics and I can't feed it, of course, I always give a syringe full of ppancake syrup every couple of hours. It keeps their blood sugars up and maybe helps loosen things up. Not a vet, but just a thought.

I think you are right giving meds from ABOVE too.

Robin


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## Debby - LB (Apr 15, 2009)

Mona bless your heart your place looks like mine right now after we had some timber cut and then had over 12 inches of rain. Anyway..for constipation in foals I use among other things, canned pumpkin. Not pumpkin pie filling but canned pureed pumpkin. They love it and it works, I've never had one who would not eat it up from a syringe. It's mega rich in fiber and you know pumpkin is kind of slimy. So if you can get some from the grocery you may can try it.

This is good for constipation AND diarrhea (a lot of people don't realize one of the best things for diarrhea is fiber) I keep a can of it here always.


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## Joanne (Apr 15, 2009)

Debby what a great idea! I will remember that.

Mona I would hold back on the mineral oil as it may not be allowing hydration at this point. Your poops should come out tonight covered in the oil.


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## Carolyn R (Apr 15, 2009)

Mona, I don't know if it was mentioned or not, but a little probiotic paste may help. She may not have a good accumulation of the beneficial bacteria in her gut that helps with digestion. I have given it in small amounts to young foals when they have the scours(along with paste electolites, pepto and biosponge) but that is not you problem at this point





Anyhow, electolites and probiotics have the known effect of giiving all the internals a little boost, I hope all works out with her.


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## kaykay (Apr 15, 2009)

Hi Mona

I am NOT trying to scare you! But I have to say I had a rescue mare here once that did that and the vet told me it was the mare sloughing off the lining of the intestine which is a very bad sign. Your pic looks very simililar but its a little blurry on my end as I am fighting an eye infection. Is that manure mixed in or ??

On the other hand if shes nursing that well I would think things are good. Usually the first thing they do is stop nursing.

When I feed I will see how much enema mine is but I suspect its more then 4 oz??

Sending good thoughts to your girl! Why do they have to worry us like this ughhhh


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## ~Lisa~ (Apr 15, 2009)

I do agree giving a enema with a childs fleet type of bottle is not going to go deep into their gut nor is it going to help an impaction that is not right there near the rectum the water solution is not going to travel far and around the twists and turns

So you are probobly right Mona in not giving them more often. I can say I have never seen anything like what she is passing

Mares milk is a pretty good laxative so hopefully with what you are doing and her nursing well it will help. Maybe put them in the barn aisle so she can run a bit or get some more exercise?


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## HGFarm (Apr 15, 2009)

I have never seen foal poop that looks like that, or that color!!

Are we sure this foal is not having a reaction to the mares milk? They dont mix? What do you call that? Im brain dead right now at work....... You know, where they can't take the mares milk for a few days.... ???

I would surely be having a vet take a look, if you haven't already.... these little guys can crash and burn so quickly.

Something certainly wrong there... I hope your little baby does ok?! I would be worried about administering anything til at least speaking with a vet somewhere.


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## Mona (Apr 15, 2009)

Well, she had a poop at around 4:00 today, which is 2-3 hours earlier than has been in the past couple of days, and this one was a different texture...more like hard little balls compacted together. It did have a bit of the white bile stuff in it, but not much. Anyway, it was also darker on the outside and more green on the inside. This poop was harder, so maybe this was part of the blockage? Hopefully it is working it's way out.

Laurie, that white stuff is not poop...it was something that came out of her...I am thinking some sort of bile from her bowel because there was nothing else left in her to come out when I gave the enemas, because whatever she was eating was not working it's way through fast enough. At least that is what I am thinking. Also, no, she is not having a reaction to the mares milk...you are thinking of the Equine equivalent to RH Factor in people. That affects the colostrum only so would only affect her the first 2 or 3 days and she is now 10 days old.

It was warm today, into the 60's and sunny, so I spread out 2 more bales of straw where the ground had no water, and let the mare and foal out for awhile a couple times today. She runs like the wind, bucking and snorting. She does not seem lethargic at all. I have had foals crash in the past and had to pull them through, so I do have experience with that, and she is not the case at all.

That said however, I mentioned before her high respiration rate after running...well this morning when I had them out the first time, she snorted and had some yellow snot come out and stick to her muzzle, so I am wondering if she aspirated some of the oil I have been giving her and got the beginnings of pneumonia. I have started her on a course of Pen G anyway, to ward off whatever it may be.


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## Margo_C-T (Apr 15, 2009)

Mona, that 'stuff' does look like the mucus/intestinal lining; I've been told (pretty sure, by my 'country vet',whom I loved and respected) that about it having a 'not-so-good' connotation even when it 'just' coats the manure, and more so, when you find globs of it such as you photographed...including that is was sloughed intestinal lining. I have a horse who rarely will produce a manure pile with two or three of the 'apples' having a slight mucus coating, and have even, a VERY few times(this horse was bred and raised here, and is now a 13 YO gelding), found 'pieces' of just the mucus---but not nearly as much as in your pics. FWIW, he is a cribber, and had a SERIOUS episode of (presumed, by me) ulcers, about a year ago, which I treated for 45 days w/ every-eight-hours, good-sized doses, of ranitidine...and he has been fine and thriving since.

That said, it sounds to me as if you are doing about all you can. The advice to back off the oil sounds logical to me, though I don't speak from personal knowledge or experience...just gut feeling. I do agree with the idea of doing all you can to hydrate her, and with 'moving around' for her; also, with the use of warm soapy water for any enema(I think I remember being told by my vet that the composition of the Fleets as they are bought isn't the best, at least, for horses.) I also suspect those who say that they aren't likely to be doing much may well be right. (I can remember from childhood, my mom having a hot water bottle with a rubber 'tubing' and a LONG--like, 6"---narrow, 'thingy', with a rounded end w/ holes in it...pretty sure that was to give enemas with, and it was used on me and my sister, I *think*--and we were pretty young children! Just seems reasonable that that a Fleets bottle isn't going to put the enema liquid far enough in to do much good--although I hasten to say that I do NOT KNOW how 'far in' it is SAFE to try to place it on young foals, either. I should qualify this by saying I only ever used enemas on newborns, and then, only once or twice, to help if the meconium was hard to pass...and I've NEVER 'oiled' ANY horse, so my opinion might be seen as biased.

The best of luck, and do keep us posted?

Margo

Can you call a 'distant' vet who will offer advice over the phone? Have anyone you have taken horses to in the past who is decent enough to do so?


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## backwoodsnanny (Apr 15, 2009)

Mona I know you are too far from a vet to get one to come for a foal who is acting fine but do you know a vet that you could e-mail with the same info you have told us and see what a vet might say about your pictures? Just a thought. Prayers that this soon passes.


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## Mona (Apr 15, 2009)

I cannot even call my local vet to ask for information on large animals. Even though he used to do the large animals, after his hip replacement, he stopped doing it, and has not renewed his large animal license, so he is not legally able to give give advice pertaining to large animals.




(liability problems)

Actually, I do have the email address for the locum that comes down once a month from Saskatchewan, so I will send him the "story" and the pics. Problem with doing that, is who knows how often he actually checks his email. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow! I cannot call him as it is too late for that tonight...can probably call him tomorrow though, if he is there. Thanks again for the suggestions.


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## backwoodsnanny (Apr 16, 2009)

Just wanted to add what a great job you do with no vet available. It is stressful enough with a vet nearby but with one absolutely unavailable you have to become so much more knowledgable. Thank you for sharing your issues with us as we all learn from your experience and also it makes me so much more thankful that I have a vet within 20 minutes of me that will come 24/7. I hope this all resolves quickly for you and again thank you for sharing in a situation most of us cant even imagine. Its so easy to say call the vet but without one available its a whole different ball game.


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## pepperhill (Apr 16, 2009)

I think your latest poop sounds very hopeful! If it is dark with green, it might be some of the muconium (sp?) that created the blockage way up high in the intestinal tract. The muconium is black or dark green and usually like tar. It passes first and then the poop turns to mustard colored stuff, until they start nibbling on moms food and then it starts to look more like moms. I'm sure you know all this! Anyway, my point was, if you have darker colored stuff coming out......I think it is good! I know their poo turns into hard little balls (like rabbit or deer poo) when they are constipated, so maybe the dam has broke!

I'm really pulling for you!


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## Mona (Apr 16, 2009)

pepperhill said:


> I think your latest poop sounds very hopeful! If it is dark with green, it might be some of the muconium (sp?) that created the blockage way up high in the intestinal tract. The muconium is black or dark green and usually like tar. It passes first and then the poop turns to mustard colored stuff, until they start nibbling on moms food and then it starts to look more like moms. I'm sure you know all this! Anyway, my point was, if you have darker colored stuff coming out......I think it is good! I know their poo turns into hard little balls (like rabbit or deer poo) when they are constipated, so maybe the dam has broke!
> I'm really pulling for you!






OMG, you guys are all going to think I am absolutely certifiably CRAZY, but here are the pics of her poop from yesterday that I described. (again, I apologize, I kow this is getting really gross!) The pieces of straw/hay stuck to the ouside was just dirst from the pooper scooper. She still has not pooped since, but hoping maybe today it will come a little earlier again and become more frequent. I wasn;t looking, I just saw it in their stall throughout the day/night.

I emailed everything to the locum last night, and then called him but he is working I guess, and I will have to call him back at about 1:30 my time while he is on his lunch break. Will let you all know what he says.

OOPS! Forgot the pics! here they are...


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## pepperhill (Apr 16, 2009)

OH, YEAH! You are getting there! That looks much, much better. Who would ever thought we would be overjoyed to look at poop!



Keep it coming little one. Keep it coming!


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## Mona (Apr 16, 2009)

pepperhill said:


> OH, YEAH! You are getting there! That looks much, much better. Who would ever thought we would be overjoyed to look at poop!
> 
> 
> 
> Keep it coming little one. Keep it coming!



When you say it looks much better...do you mean you are comparing the 1st and 2nd pic against each other? They are both of the same "poop", just different angles and I pulled it apart to see the inside in the second pic.


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## Mona (Apr 16, 2009)

Will spare you the pictures this time, but just had to say we got another poop already today! Around 11:00 or so I guess, and thankfully, it looked MUCH moister and was much softer. It still has that mucous/bile stuff throughout it in places, but I guess maybe that is to be expected if it has been sitting in there for so long irritating the bowels?? Anyway, I am feeling quite optomistic that she is on her way to a full recovery now! Thanks all for your support and suggestions etc.!! It truely is much appreciated!


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## Magic (Apr 16, 2009)

I don't mind the pictures, I'm a "poop examiner" from way back, lol!





I'm so glad to hear that your filly is doing better, I hope that she keeps on in that direction. You are a great "medical practitioner" with your horses, Mona, I'm impressed!


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## sedeh (Apr 16, 2009)

My internet has been on the blink and I'm just reading this thread. Mona I'm glad to hear the filly is passing more "poop-like" poop!



That other stuff looked like intestinal lining slough to me also...not a good sign but it sure sounds like your filly is improving. I'm always afraid to syringe mineral oil and I wouldn't do it often. If they do aspirate it can coat the lungs and prevent the oxygen from being exchanged.....could be why she was short of breath after exercise. If a large enough area of the lung gets coated they die. I've seen it with children in the ED that get into lamp oil etc. Anyway, just be careful using oils! Praying your filly continues to improve!


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## Mona (Apr 16, 2009)

OK, I spoke to the vet at 1:30. He said to basically keep doing what I am doing with a couple minor changes. He said I need to keep giving her the mineral oil orally, but instead of giving it once a day, to divide it up and give 15-20cc twice a day. He said there is always risk when giving mineral oil this way, but you have to take into consideration that if you don't give it, you will likely lose the foal anyway, so is a choice the owner must make. He said mineral oil is their most recommended choice of treatment as it is scentless and tasteless. He did say if I was able to milk the mare and mix the oil with her milk and get the filly to take it from a bottle, that would work best. That is not an option for me though, as I have never had any luck in getting a foal to take a bottle...ever! Also, since she is as old as she is, she likely wouldn't want to take a bottle after drinking from the mare for this long.

He said there is no sense in giving any more enemas, because he feels as I do, that the blockage is higher up, and needs to be approached from the other end with the mineral oil. He mentioned something kind of neat, that makes sense but that I never even thought to do! He said if you are wondering if the oil is getting through (I told him it doesn't look oily when the poop does come), he said to get a small container of warm water and put the stool in there and if there is oil in it, it will separate from the stool and bead up/float to the top of the water. Makes perfect sense!





As for the antibiotics, he said the Pen G is not a good choice for possible pneumonia, and instead to try something else. He told me Excenel as an injectable ot Uniprim powder as an oral treatment. So I have called out vet clinic in Fort Frances and they are Express Posting it out today, and should be here tomorrow. Other than that, I am doing all I can.

Oh, and he felt the white stuff must be some sort of mucous, but didn;t specify more or go into more detail. He also said a foal should be pooping every 3-4 hours or so, so even though things are moving along slowly, we have a way to go yet! He said to keep giving her the mineral oil twice daily until she gets to several poops a day.


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## backwoodsnanny (Apr 16, 2009)

Dear Mona

That looks better but do see some red in there that could be a bit of blood unless that is something else. It still is very dry but at least it is getting through a major improvement but would like to see it more moist will be interested to see what the locum has to say if you hear from him. Keep up the good work you are amazing.

Nita


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## Mona (Apr 16, 2009)

backwoodsnanny said:


> Dear MonaThat looks better but do see some red in there that could be a bit of blood unless that is something else. It still is very dry but at least it is getting through a major improvement but would like to see it more moist will be interested to see what the locum has to say if you hear from him. Keep up the good work you are amazing.
> 
> Nita



Yes Nita, I also noticed that little spot of blood too. Here are pics of her poop from this morning. this was the very next one from the last pics I posted here, so you can definately see a noticable difference...or at least I could. I just posted too about my conversation with the vet, but I think you and I may have been typing/posting at the same time, in case you missed it.


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## RJRMINIS (Apr 16, 2009)

Well at least it seems things are moving out! I hope she will be fine in no time Mona...I know what a worry these babies can be!


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## HGFarm (Apr 16, 2009)

Mona,

Glad to see things are 'moving along'!! Things look better that's for sure! Yikes!

I noticed that your last pics here show hair stuck to the poop. Are your mares shedding a lot right now? I know several people who have lost foals after birth because while trying to learn to nurse, got mouthfuls of hair from the mom, and swallowed it and got bound up on hair balls!! The babies colicked and died.

Could she have bound up on hair balls obtained while trying to learn to nurse? She would be too young to really ingest anything else.

I hope she continues to improve. She sounds like she is active, and that is good!!! I would turn them out as much as you can, despite the mud (ew!) so she can run and really get her system moving and active, etc.....

I think though in a few days she will be fine. I hope so!


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## Mona (Apr 16, 2009)

Yes, there is hair stuck to the poop, but it is not IN it. It is hair off the floor of the barn. Yes, my horses are shedding, but I spend LOTS of time brushing and brushing and more brushing on the mares as they get close to foaling and carry on throught after they foal to help ensure there is not an overabumdance of hair that the foal can ingest.


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## crponies (Apr 16, 2009)

When I had a foal that was kind of constipated and had mucus in his poop, my vet at the time told me he might have an infection and had me give him antibiotic (Penicillin). So, treating with antibiotics will maybe help with these intestinal problems too.


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## ~Amanda~ (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm so glad your little girl is "moving along" and getting better. It sounds like she has a little ways to go, but is definitely getting there!

It is so odd, but only "horsey people" are so thrilled to see foal poops, I'm sure!


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## Carolyn R (Apr 16, 2009)

That news is great. It is wonderful being around a bunch of horse people that know exactly how serious this can be as we all "say our little prays for poop" when we read these threads. Only horse people would understand


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## wildoak (Apr 16, 2009)

Glad to see an improvement




. I noticed the bit of blood too, maybe just from straining? The big glob of mucous concerned me, so glad to see things looking at least more in the direction of normal. I don't know that this is something you'd want to do on a baby, but just for the sake of information sharing - we had a very impacted mare who was not responding to mineral oil, etc, and the vet tubed her with epsom salt/water. When it worked its way through, I have to say it was explosive - but it did save her life.

Keep up the good work, and keep us posted.

Jan


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## backwoodsnanny (Apr 16, 2009)

dear Mona

The last posted pic looks the best yet I was wondering also if she has any ulcer symptoms as in excessive interest in the water bucket for example as sometimes an ulcer can also slow things down especially when I saw that little speck of blood. So glad you got a vet to at least look. Sounds like your were right on in your assessment. Continued prayers that all continues to go well. I agaree its so funny that we all can at points in time be so estatic when the poop is right after an illness. I especially wanted to mention the ulcer since I lost a baby at 40 days old several years ago from one. The first signs I saw was her great interest in the water bucket and lack of poop. If these antibiotics are strong ones that you are going to try then she probably should get some ulcer guard or equivilent along with them as they can be so hard on a babies tummy and intestines. Just a thought. prayers for continued success.

N ita


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## Mona (Apr 16, 2009)

WOOHOO!!!! I think I'm safe to say that this can be my final update!! She has had 3 poops today in about the last 11 hours! One at about 11:00am, one between 5:00 and 7:00pm and another now between 9:00 and 10:00pm!! That is only 3 or 4 hours since the last one, so I bet she is out of danger and will now be back to normal! I have the feeling it may now go to the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, since her mom should be coming into her 10 day heat. I noticed tonight the colt had the squirts, and am guessing that is why. He is just 3 hours older than this filly.

*THANK YOU EVERYONE!!* It really does help to ease a person's mind knowing you have a support system in place when you go through things like this!


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## Margo_C-T (Apr 17, 2009)

Great news, Mona! Sounds like things are definitely much better!

Just a few more thoughts I've had, based on past experiences....first, that the last pic you posted appeared pretty fibrous, as if she'd been taking in hay? I have had several over time that were very 'mouth-oriented', VERY early on---one colicked, had to be treated for that AND for ulcers(bedded on straw; from then on, I put straw OVER shavings, left it in place for only a week or less after foaling); the other impacted so seriously that he needed surgery for the impaction(what they removed was a combo of all types of hair--body, mane/tail--and fibrous material---hay/bedding)--both at very young ages! Babies like these are the 'type' to get themselves in trouble because they are compelled to try everything out with their mouth! When they have no teeth, or very few, and simply don't know how to chew properly, it is especially dangerous for them, IMO.

I have used ranitidine to treat for ulcers at a young age; also, had several that I (on vet's advice) began giving psyllium to, using a dose syringe, pancake syrup(NOT water, as psyllium will 'gel' BEFORE you can get it into the horse, and that needs to happen AFTER!)---and a LOT of patience and willingness to get messy...when they were very young---but it did seem to work. You may just want to spend some time observing her, to see if she seems to be the 'try everything with my mouth' type.

Again, SO glad to hear things are doing better...Great Job!

Margo


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## backwoodsnanny (Apr 17, 2009)

Dear Mona

I am so glad to read this update today. YAY Continued prayers for continued improvement but again let me say Thank you for sharing as sometimes we all may have a time when a vet cant come on a moments notice and your situation always reminds me how very lucky I am to have a vet available at all. Great Job Girl !!!!!!


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## Mona (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanks again. Margo, I think that this might be her problem. Yes, before this happened she was in a stall heavily bedded with straw, and had access to mom's hay as well. I took it all up, leaving NOTHING on the floor for bedding at all, and fed mom in a muck bucket hanging high enough that the filly could not get into it. That said however, mom would sometimes bang the tub around tipping it out, or sometimes dumping some on the ground. I have, a few times, found chewed up pieces of hay on the floor in a little wad. I thought maybe it was from the mare to begin with, but later thought maybe it was the filly chewing it up and spitting it out. Maybe that IS what got her into trouble, and she IS one that has to mouth/taste everything...from me to the walls of the stalll!

I do not trust shavings even worse than I do not trust straw. I have never had trouble with straw ever, in the past 15 years that I have been raising minis. I am more scared of them impacting on shavings than straw. (I have heard of it happening)

It looked like overnight she only had one poop, so I am going to keep treating with the mineral oil until she starts having regular, normal bowel movements.

I do have ulcer guard here to use if need be, but she isn;t showing any outward signs of having ulcers, or do you mean I should I give it as a precautionary measure?


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## Margo_C-T (Apr 17, 2009)

Mona, as I understand it, Ulcerguard is the 'preventative', and Gastroguard is the 'treatment'. I've never used either; have only used ranitidine, so can't really say. However, if it were me, I'd probably just keep doing what you're doing(with the oil, per vet's instructions--after all, HE'S the one with the intensive training!), and keep on keeping an eye on her. I wouldn't 'treat' with anything like that unless/until I had more certainty that ulcers might be an issue. At her young age, I'd be hesitant to add anything else that 'goes into' her system, unless you had several specific symptoms, AND the vet's go-ahead.

You've done everything you should, taking the bedding up, trying to limit her access to hay as much as possible...maybe try some safe stall toys for her? Jolly Ball, used plastic milk jug w/ a few rocks inside(lid on tight, checked daily to make sure it hasn't cracked, etc.), even a small rubber tub, etc... some will make use of them, some won't--but babies NEED to move around, have SOMETHING to do with themselves, burn off some of that youthful energy!

With the 'mouthy' sort, I recommend using the psyllium---I'll contact you privately about that, because it would take too long to type it out!

Margo


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## Vertical Limit (Apr 17, 2009)

Good new Mona! You need to get some rest!


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## Mona (Apr 17, 2009)

Well Margo, I checked, and I guess it is GastroGuard I have anyway, not Ulcerguard. I have added some toys to her stall, and had her out for a bit again this morning, and will maybe put her back out a little later. I have to do them in shifts...her and the other mare/foal. I had them all out this morning and this filly is too brave, and Mom was more interested in eating hay than watching her child, so the filly went running over to the other foal and his mom, and she went after the filly!



So I had to put one pair back into the barn for safety. I'll do a shift change later to get her out a bit again.

Here are pics of 3 piles of partially chewed hay I found on the stall floor that I mentioned I keep finding. I think this is the filly doing this with pieces of hay she picks off the floor from her dam eating and dropping it down there. I am thinking the filly since there are still long pieces sticking out the sides of the more chewed areas of each clump.

So Margo, you are most likely correct on your thinking she is one of those "mouthy" foals!!


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## HGFarm (Apr 17, 2009)

I would make sure mama's teeth are in good shape and she is not the one throwing out wads of hay.

Sounds like you are on the mend now and your problem is past! YEAH!! And yes, only horse folks are so glad to see poop! LOL

I knew that hair was not in the poop, just wondered if that might have been the reason for the initial blockage? It would have been hard to tell, but can be a problem and do know folks that have lost foals from it when they colicked- didnt know til the autopsy was done. I have spent hours grooming horses during shedding and the hair just keeps coming out! The foals can still get a good bunch of it inside. I usually shave my mares from mid way down when they are due to prevent that, but our weather has been SO up and down this year (was 39 degrees two mornings ago with a high of 60 and today will be 75 and Sunday 95!!!) that I did not shave any this year. Good thing!

Anyhow, another note... I use shavings for bedding but put a layer of grass hay over it. That way if anyone feels the need to munch anything, there is soft grass there. Works better than the straw and is a much softer bed. Did use just grass hay before but the shavings are a bit more absorbant underneath.

Sounds like you are good to go now Mona! You are such a good mama!!! Hope it dries out for you soon - I just hate the mud. Glad we dont get much here.

It's normal for the other mama to chase the other's baby away. If she is not an evil mare, the foal will quickly learn what the signals are to 'go away'. Sounds like she is quite in inquisitive little gal and going to be independant!


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