# personality (horse) for driving



## My2Minis (Dec 16, 2009)

I am training one of my minis to drive and I'm questioning if I should. She is sweet, an older mare and has a cute trot but she is spooky and high strung by nature. She spooks at rain on her shelter roof, the fence clicking, a feedbag. He response is to spook first. She's smart, sensitive and has a lot of energy. Why walk when you can trot?

I can work with her just fine- she leads, is good with the farrier and loves kids and we enjoy her a lot.

Is it worth putting the work into training her? I have her taking the bit and ground driving. She is good in the round pen- knows voice commands but needs a lot of time yet. She stands for harnessing now, though she bucked everything off at first.

She can go off in fear and spook and run at so many things...it is her personality. My vet called her a drama queen. I have two other horses and I can set a feed bag on their heads and they don't care. But she spooks and runs at the feedbag, even after we did a lot of desensitizing to plastic bags and the feedbag in fall.

Do I keep her as a pet (I will keep her) or train her and hope that she can calm down? She is 16 and kind of set in her ways.


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## End Level Farms (Dec 16, 2009)

I personally dont mind the spooky or flightier driving horses. Does it take more work YES. Does it pay off YES if done correctly. It can also go very very wrong.

However there are people who say no they dont make a good driving horse.

It depends on what you want or feel comfortable driving.

Some like SPICY HOT! (Me) Others like calm and quiet and a bomb can go off and their horse wont flick an ear.

Im not saying either is better than the other.

At 16 shes not too old to learn. My 16 year old Paint mare is learning to drive. She is not flighty or anything.

And I keep kicking around getting my 19 year old mini mare broke to drive but keep putting it off. I dont want her having babies until she dies. I want her to live to a ripe old(er) age. And so Im thinking that by giving her a job to do other than have babies. But she is also very set in her ways. She does let little kids ride her. So its not like she doesnt have SOMETHING else to do.


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## barnbum (Dec 16, 2009)

> And so Im thinking that by giving her a job to do other than have babies.


I have two retired mares--because I retired from breeding--they're only 10.




Both will be great fun to ground drive and they love love love the attention.

Now--as far as personality for driving goes... I have a two year old who I assumed would be my everything horse...but she's a velcro girl--she'd rather be doing something closer to my side than out in front. It dawned on me when I was just working with her on leads on both sides of her halter, then attempting to walk behind her with long lines... she hated it. Her thought bubble read "What did I do that you want me up here? I promise I'll be good!"



Or at least that's what I'm thinking. Since I have my mares to ground drive (I don't have a harness or cart; I like the exercise of walking.



) I'll leave Rosie to our clicker training dances, which she loves. So, I am thinking she's not a driving girl. She is young though.

I'll be curious to read more replies.


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 16, 2009)

A lot depends on how well you can deal with her but if she is spooky to the point where she is dangerous to others, if you are thinking of driving her in the ring, then you need to re-think. It isn't really fair to the other drivers if you and your horse put them in danger when you knowingly entered the ring with a horse that bolts. I have a mare that I bought specifically with driving in mind. She is a lovely moving girl and looks very pretty in harness and is just a doll in hand. When I started to work with her I realized that she was fairly flighty when it came to driving. She too bucked and fought the harness when it was first introduced. She learned to stand and accept it and we continued on. She knows whoa thoroughly. She bolted several times during her beginning training but seemed to gradually settle into it fairly well. Our first trip into the ring she never actually bolted but she was really edgy and we pulled out of the class. I eventually got her driving in the ring well enough that she took many firsts and went Champion Ladies Country Pleasure in the All Stars but she never got over her first instinct to bolt at the sign of trouble. I have tried punishing her when she bolts by jerking her back, I have tried making her run well past the point when she was willing to stop (on a very safe road) and yet when something startles her off she goes again. Knowing that there will come a day when our luck runs out and something will cause her to bolt in the ring putting others in danger I have retired her from driving.


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## targetsmom (Dec 16, 2009)

I think some depends on the trainer, but I know that at my age, I am not interested in dealing with one that spooky. Sounds like our gelding, who is 3/8 Rowdy by blood. He did fine with the harness and ground driving until we got to the step simulating shafts next to his sides. He is also claustrophobic and needs extra space in the trailer (if we can get him to load!). We have other minis that drive and he has other jobs to do, although he is always a challenge. He has done halter obstacle and he loves to jump, but he has to really trust his handler, and even then he has to see a new jump or obstacle a few times before he will go over it. And surprisingly, he just LOVES to go for walks in the woods, where he is very calm!

Maybe your mare would like to jump? At least spooking there would not be quite as dangerous as with a cart.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 16, 2009)

I think for me a lot of it would depend on the look in the horse's eye. Is she just "hot?" She enjoys running off because she's high energy and dramatic and bolting lets her feel that she's powerful and lovely? Or does she bolt because she becomes terrified over the least little thing and her mind shuts down?



If she's hot and you have the skill to handle her reactions, sure, go ahead and channel that power constructively into harness. If she's even somewhere in the middle and bolts because she's unsure and clearly thinks that's the safest thing to do...well, that's a thought pattern that can be reeducated. But if she stops thinking the minute she's startled by the least little thing and bolts blindly...honestly, no, I wouldn't try training a horse like that unless she really gave me a reason to think she wanted to drive. (Being a pretty mover or ME wanting to drive her would not be enough reason.) Some horses _do_ have traumatic mental issues that hold them back and a trusted, dedicated, sensitive trainer can help them come through the other side and blossom. But that is a rare case and most of the time the horse is simply not suited to the discipline in question.

A horse cannot learn when he or she is frightened anymore than a person can. You may get her to tolerate certain things like the harness on her back, but if she doesn't truly accept them and understand what's going on she's never going to be trustworthy. Clicker training might be able to help you with that but she still may never make a driving horse. It depends on how she reacts to what you show her and why she's skittish in the first place.

Go through the ground-training and see how she does. If she begins to understand and love her role and becomes more steady then you can think about hitching her to the cart. Ground-work is never wasted!







barnbum said:


> Now--as far as personality for driving goes... I have a two year old who I assumed would be my everything horse...but she's a velcro girl--she'd rather be doing something closer to my side than out in front. It dawned on me when I was just working with her on leads on both sides of her halter, then attempting to walk behind her with long lines... she hated it. Her thought bubble read "What did I do that you want me up here? I promise I'll be good!"
> 
> 
> 
> Or at least that's what I'm thinking.


Karla, did you click her through those ground-driving sessions? If not, of course Rosie thought you were punishing her! You sent her away and wouldn't let her come back and she has no other context to put that in except punishment. Try clicking her for stepping her forehand away from you until she'll pivot 180 degrees away while you stand still, then ask her to walk on and click her for even thinking about moving forward. (Let her spin around to get the goodie of course, then have her turn away again.) Make it a game! Then she'll get excited about it and know this is still something you're doing together. I wouldn't even have a halter on her until she's got the idea of walking off ahead of you. You don't actually need reins until you ask her to turn, after all.



She'll stop when she hears the click!

I've got my long yearling walking and trotting off directly ahead of me at liberty because he's come to understand that it's a game and that he can take instruction from that position. The hard part is teaching him that he can't bump his butt or kick at me in play when we're doing that!



I only ask him to do it for a few strides and then when I see him getting too excited to focus I break off and race away and he comes bucking and leaping after me.



That way he learns in short fun bursts and always wants to "work." As he gets older the sessions will naturally go longer and become more complicated.

Leia


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## My2Minis (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. You guys are great! I will continue with ground driving without becoming too attached to the idea that she must be a driving horse. She is a pinto.


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## krissy3 (Dec 16, 2009)

I think this really depends on your personality as well. some people really like a spirited horse , and other want a safe, reliable horse that wont throw a curve ball. You might have to just do what is best for you. I personally dont like the "curve ball" I like a nice sturdy reliable level headed -somewhat boring driving horse. I have one of each, i let my trainer have the thrill ride.


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## targetsmom (Dec 16, 2009)

My spooky one is also a pinto (as are all of ours) and he has done quite well at the Pinto Shows. We do have a lot of fun with him there, showing in everything EXCEPT driving. You might want to look into that for your mare.


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## barnbum (Dec 16, 2009)

I enjoyed the replies. The event should fit the horse, or is it the other way around?





Leia--Rosie will move away from me with clicker training--she'll back. It took a lot of patience.



But I didn't _send_ her away when I ground drove her--I was just walking at her side and then made the change. She just didn't like it. I didn't persue it because we can work more with me at her side and we're working on adding to the dance.


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## Reble (Dec 16, 2009)

I really do believe personality of a horse for driving, is a good base to start with.

I also believe a horse that trust you, will do a lot more for you.

A horse after being despooked at everything you can think of, should not even move from their spot after being despooked, if they are still spooked at things not a good ideal to hook up to cart.

With us, personality is on our list before buying or keeping.


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## Keri (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm also one of those that prefer to drive hot/flightier horses. I get very bored very easily with those horses that have no get up and go. As far as training goes, take it slow. I hand walk mine on roads, etc. so they get use to noises. And then when we've progressed in ground driving, I'll ground drive them out there too (much scarier when they have blinders on for some reason). I started a spooky pony last fall. Took him on walks and took extra time to be sure nothing bothered him. Then we started ground driving. Whole new experience again for him to be in blinders. I ground drove him for months. I sold him before I got him in the cart, but the people who bought him now have him in the cart. He had a good solid foundation in ground driving. So he knew nothing was going to kill him and knew the proper behavior for spooking in the harness (spook in place, not bolt and run). I told them to take it slow and they have. But he was just like your mare. Carry something in the barn and he was trying to bolt out the back wall or run away if something scared him.


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## jandjmc (Dec 17, 2009)

If you are enjoying the experience of working with your mare, by all means continue on. Will you be able to count on this mare as a reliable driver, personally I doubt it.

Disposition is the number one requirement in my opinion for a driving horse. If this is a mare who routinely reacts with blind panic to new/different experiences, it's unlikely at 16 years old that she would be a horse that you should try to drive. She will most likely be a real danger to others. Lots of training can make improvement but you can not change the basic personality of a horse at that age. Could you train her to drive in an arena? Sure but I have serious doubts that you will ever feel comfortable driving her.

I had a personal experience with a mare I raised, hoping for an all around prospect. I did plenty of exposure, hauling, shows, parades, horse fairs, etc for her first 4 years. Bimonthly lesson in showmanship, trail and hunter. She lounges like a dream. But she always had that "yahoo" look when approaching something new. The mare spent 90 days with a very well qualified mini driving trainer-(not just show ring). The mare learned well because she had lots of experience learning and is an obedient sort. On her 4th month of train, it hit the fan. She blindly ran into fences, had serious bucking periods and would appear to be calm and then break up. If I insisted, I could probably get this mare to do the roundy round in the arena, but she is clearly communicating to me that driving is not her bag. So why would I want to push it? She won't be happy and neither will I. Fortunately this mare has a good future as a show horse (in hand) or as a well bred typey brood mare.

As far as driving "spirited" horses, I'm all for it. I have a Rhotens Little Dandy Son who is as tough, forward and fast as they come. But he can be brought back when he spooks and can be desensitized effectively. Spirited doesn't mean goosey or paniced or crazed. It means that a horse will give you his all whenever you ask for it.

If what you are looking for is a horse you can really enjoy driving in a variety of situations, your mare isn't a good prospect.


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## whitney (Dec 17, 2009)

I think one of each is good. I have a dependable mare, and if she does spook she stays put doesn't bolt. I have another that is like a rocket ship. Some times I feel like a nut, some times I don't.


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 17, 2009)

This topic connects to all the topics about safety, wrecks, and other issues that intimidate people thinking of driving.

I have worked with unstable horses for driving and stable ones. IMO an unstable horse is not a good choice for pleasure driving, although one can certainly learn alot from working with one.

If you have time and energy to work with the mare as a driving prospect, that is great. But don't be too hard on yourself if it doesn't work out. Chalk it up to education and experience.


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## krissy3 (Dec 17, 2009)

Marsha Cassada said:


> This topic connects to all the topics about safety, wrecks, and other issues that intimidate people thinking of driving. I have worked with unstable horses for driving and stable ones. IMO an unstable horse is not a good choice for pleasure driving, although one can certainly learn alot from working with one.
> 
> If you have time and energy to work with the mare as a driving prospect, that is great. But don't be too hard on yourself if it doesn't work out. Chalk it up to education and experience.



I agree, If your horse is too spirited for your level of " comfortable" driving , then do something else with the horse that you feel more confident in. Its totally OK to recognise what type of comfort level you have ,and be OK with it. I am too much of a worrier, I am not relaxed enough to keep a spooky horse calm. No problem on the ground,in hand and walking , but in a cart I feel better with a calm horse. Also ,it depends on the area you have for driving. If its along a narrow mountain road with lots of bicycles, and perhaps like mine , a 15 hundred foot drop on one side , you bet the hot tempered girl is staying at home , and the low key gelding goes on that road.There are far too many things that can go wrong , even when you think you have everything under control. Driving can be very dangerious for the horse and driver , dont underestimate the possibilities of accidents. Be safe , for you and the horse , and know , accept your limits, and the horses too



.


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## RhineStone (Dec 18, 2009)

There are horses that will never drive, but that being said, a good driving horse is ALL about TRUST, spooky or stoic. I have a gelding that used to freak out at the flick of a body brush, but now plows through water hazards. He didn't know us or trust us at first, but eventually figured out that we weren't going to ask him to do something that was going to get him hurt. Pain is a tremendous influencer, including poor fitting equipment, which is why I am so adament that "show" harnesses are not doing our horses any good.

Runaway horses are making decisions they shouldn't be making, according to Jeff Morse, pro. Morgan driving trainer. My gelding was also a runaway last year, and we worked on the process of making sure that he was not allowed to make decisions after I talked to Jeff about some strategies for correcting that behavior, and it worked wonders. Our 7-yr. old son drove the gelding this year in three ADS shows.


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## Shari (Dec 18, 2009)

Personally I would never work with a reactive horse for driving. Hot is one thing but a hot horse doesn't have to have a spooky temperament.

Take Dyfra for example.. with all the hours and years of training I have on her, I have a good riding horse, we trust each other. But... and here is the Big but.... she still doesn't have the temperament to make a safe Driving horse. A horse like her, you train to drive only if you have a death wish.

A good stable temperament.. not spooky, steady, not over reactive...doesn't bolt or blind panic at all, then you have the makings of a good driving horse. Maggie is steady, non spooky and very stable but she is in no way a slug and loves to go.

I have been driving a long time and I truly believe some horses should not be trained to cart. Seen too many accidents in years past with horses that were not really suited for harness. There are many good stable minded horses out there, why take the chance of getting hurt or worse?


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## My2Minis (Dec 19, 2009)

Thank you all! I took her out again and she did really well. I lowered the cart shafts next to her and pulled the cart along and she didn't mind. She has been dragging things for months. Amazingly she has no problem dragging things-- but if she sees anything that she thinks is a problem (a dog , a cow, a trash can, anything out of place) then she reacts. She was spooking at one side of the ring today during ground driving because the neighbor dog was moving around across the street.

I am going to keep working with her because she has so much energy and great looks that she would be fun if she can be despooked...but if she won't despook I won't ever hitch her up because I value my life.

I am hoping that as she builds up trust she will react less. When I got her she refused to be caught but now comes right up to me in the pasture. So at this point I just don't know, and I will not hitch her up unless her whoa is set and she is solid.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 20, 2009)

Good for you!





Leia


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## Knighthawke (Dec 20, 2009)

I have a 35 inch appy mare that we just had started in harness. She is spooky and we are going to do a lot of despooking on the ground out of the harness and then keep working her in harness. I think if you have a spooky horse it can make a driving horse but it might need alot more time in harness to make then reliable and trusting.

Barb


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## My2Minis (Feb 11, 2010)

I am still not sure if I can despook this little mare enough to drive. She is smart, sensitive, eager to please and sweet but every morning I come in the fence to clean her paddock and jumps straight up in the air as if she's never seen me before, trots off then comes back to eat. She will follow me around like a dog, does tricks, but when I pop in I become a big scary thing. Even after I say her name as I pop in.

I've sacked her out with tarps, a feedbag, plastic bags, ropes. She will go forward and back over a tarp. She is good when I'm working with her, then sees something new or some shadow and spooks. This is fine on the ground but I don't want to deal with it in the cart.

She is good ground driving- I suspect someone did drive her many years ago (because she knows so much), then she was a broodmare and a pet for the past ten years at least. She has so much training- ground ties, lunges, bows, backs ups, follows you without a lead rope, etc.

So it is a dilemma. I have another driving horse. After seeing his personality, I realize that he is the kind of driving horse that suits me-- he has a big heart and a lot of go but has a steady personality and knows his job with no drama. He is uncomplicated to drive- no games. I don't know that I want to drive a spooky horse and be on alert all the time. I drive to relieve stress not get more!

So I don't know if I should continue to work towards hitching her, give up and keep her as an expensive pet (the kids love to work with her) or find her a new home and get a different horse.


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## RhineStone (Feb 11, 2010)

My2Minis said:


> I am still not sure if I can despook this little mare enough to drive. She is smart, sensitive, eager to please and sweet but every morning I come in the fence to clean her paddock and jumps straight up in the air as if she's never seen me before, trots off then comes back to eat. She will follow me around like a dog, does tricks, but when I pop in I become a big scary thing. Even after I say her name as I pop in.
> Have you had her eyesight checked? Of course, even if there is something wrong there, it's an expensive fix and a lifelong production with eyedrops, from what my vet said.
> 
> I've sacked her out with tarps, a feedbag, plastic bags, ropes. She will go forward and back over a tarp. She is good when I'm working with her, then sees something new or some shadow and spooks. This is fine on the ground but I don't want to deal with it in the cart.
> ...


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## My2Minis (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks for the ideas, Myrna. Yes we need a thread on working with mares



. I only had geldings before this. Big, lazy geldings.

The vet checked her out, and I think her eyes are fine. But next vet visit I could have that done again.

I am not sure of my goals. I am new to minis, been driving for one year. And I have had her for six months. So it may be too early to give up. She is a cool horse but I'd call her a 7 on temperament- dramatic and prancy. I had to establish my leadership and earn her trust- which was a fine line.

I have a small property so I would like every horse to have a job. A horse without a job will get bored since I don't have a lot of acreage. So my goal is to have every able bodied horse I own with some sort of job...otherwise I feel bad for them. If I can't drive her, and she is too small to ride I'm afraid she'd end up a pasture ornament.


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## Sue_C. (Feb 11, 2010)

I too like a horse with lots of energy, but there is a _huge_ difference between positive and negative energies.

Some horses, (and I have seen them of any/all breeds) that will never make a safe driving horse, no matter how much time you spend with them trying to make them so.

I couple of years ago I sent a client's horse back to them unfinished because I did not feel he would ever make a trustworthy, safe, or sane driving horse. I am very slow and steady in my methods, never rush a horse's training, and have made some very fine driving horses, of both large and small breeds...but I knew I had met my match in this little guy.

He was so sweet and willing...to a point, but he would decide to blow his brain at nothing, at any time, for any/no reason...and when he did, he had absolutely NO caution for himself, but would run "blind"...hurting himself and anything in his path. In my honest opinion, a horse that will run blindly with no thoughts of self-preservation is a dangerous animal, and has no place in harness. I discussed this with the owner, and said that I wouldn't feel offended if they wanted to try another trainer...but she agreed with my decision, and he is now used in-hand by her grand kids.


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## Cindy (Feb 12, 2010)

There is a wonderful discussion of the driving horse and its relationship to the driver, written by Heike Bean....author of Logical Approach to Carriage Driving.

Go to her website: www.heikebean.com and check out the driving article called "Driving from the ground up." It's about 30 pages of her insights into the horse, the driver and how we communicate together to build trust, set a solid foundation of trust, and move forward together to the sport of driving!

Enjoy!

Cindy


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## chandab (Feb 12, 2010)

My2Minis said:


> I am not sure of my goals. I am new to minis, been driving for one year. And I have had her for six months. So it may be too early to give up. She is a cool horse but I'd call her a 7 on temperament- dramatic and prancy. I had to establish my leadership and earn her trust- which was a fine line.


Only 6 months... I'd give her more time to bond with you and get used to your place and routine.

I have a broodmare; I bought her from a place with lots of mares (so little human contact, except for vaccinations, farrier and little more - and she'd been through a couple homes since her breeder), brought her home to my small herd (5 at the time, she made 6) and while somewhere in her past someone trained her well for groundwork (halter manners are impeccable), she hadn't been handled in some time, so didn't go for any fussing and didn't really care if I was around or not. After at least a year, probably closer to 18 months, she started to come around and look forward to my coming to the paddock and no longer ran from the halter. She's still not overly fond of fussing, but likes people around her, like a good grooming and a good scratch.

I guess what I'm saying is, just give her more time before you decide she's not going to work out. Oh, and they usually don't mind if they don't have a job, most would prefer to be pasture puffs. [yes, I know some like a job, but there are many that are perfectly happy being pasture puffs.]


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## Fanch (Feb 12, 2010)

I have a gelding that nots exactly a spooky horse to the point of bolting, hes just a very extroverted personality and wants to watch and see everything, but he also believes that if he doesnt desicde its safe of I show him its ok, its time to get away.

I trained him myself and I took a total of 8-9 on ground training. This was so I could slowly introduce him to the parts of driving, but also so that I could spend time getting him use to scary things in different situations (ie with blinkers, with shafts, etc) Now remember, when you are doing this, your not trying to despook her for every situation, but teach the horse, and yourself, how to safely deal with "scary" situations. You purposely put them in a situation where they will proably freak, but deal with it.

Example, near the end of my geldings training, I asked a friend of mine to come from behind on his dirtbike and my gelding did react, but I knew how to deal with it, and by the 3rd time he didn't even flinch.

I would say try starting your mare, but take it slow, let her determine the rate, and see where it takes you. There was a point where I thought my gelding would never drive, but after alot of time I felt comfortable to hitch him and in 3 months in the cart he never "blew up" with me.

Best of luck!


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## My2Minis (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks, everyone. I won't give up yet. She is becoming very bonded to me from all the groundwork and hopefully building trust.

Paige, that is inspiring that you were able to work through the stage with your gelding where you thought he wouldn't drive.

Cindy, I love Heike Bean's article on her website. Thank you. I put her book on hold at the library.

ETA- after last night's ground driving spookfest, I am not sure she will ever be consistent enough...I will keep trying but am not going to drive her if she stays like this because she is too reactive. She is great for in hand trail class and tricks, so that may be her future.


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