# The Ballad of the Spotted Toad



## rabbitsfizz (Oct 11, 2011)

I shall update when something happens, and certainly whenever I get photos- at the moment he is pulling the tyre round outside, all over both the top (around an acre and a half) field and the bottom (same size, long grass, lots of interesting mares) and he is still being an *&^@* I got quite cross with the delicate flower yesterday and I actually yelled at him a bit (all my horses, I am afraid, are quite used to being bellowed at occasionally!) and to my surprise he stopped fooling around and put his shoulder to the collar for once. Then he tried to go on into a trot and started to scare himself, but I brought him back (remember we are still doing all this in a halter) This seems to be his main problem at the moment- he is a bit like a kid with training wheels on his bike- he is no way ready to have the wheels off but he is bored and wants to do more than he is able. I do take the tyre off and let him do a lot of trotting in figures of eights and I am actually _exercising_ him in the round pen, first, I think if we get a little of the plumpness off he might be easier to deal with. DC gets very fit, very easily, though and the last thing I want, especially as my health is not helping me at the moment, is a fit rising four year old, gelding, bouncing along in front of me!

I am going to try a swingletree on the tyre- yes/no?? I have not used one before but it seemed a good idea??

I am also going to start traffic proofing him, and that is either going to blow his mind or, like Misty, he just is not going to give two hoots!

I am using the whip with a lash on it now, and he is not in the least bothered by that, accepts it as a training aid and responds well.

Because my coordination is a bit off I often have loose reins, but be will almost "neck rein" to the placement of the whip alone.

This sort of thing he thinks is great, he will do that all day- unfortunately, I cannot, and put myself in bed (I slept 11 hours) because I overdid it the other day because we were having so much fun.

I think I need to sit down and write a schedule for him and stick to it!


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## Sue_C. (Oct 11, 2011)

Looking forward to the rest of the story as it unravels.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm learning a lot from "watching" other folks train on here- keep up the updates!



> This seems to be his main problem at the moment- he is a bit like a kid with training wheels on his bike- he is no way ready to have the wheels off but he is bored and wants to do more than he is able.


Good description- so many of the minis are like that! When mine start acting bored I give them lots of new things to do like making serpentines with the tire, stretching down, bending laterally and making walk-whoa transitions so it's a short, intense, but non-stressful session and then I put them away to think about it. Usually the next time I get them out (especially if it's a day or two later) they've clearly assimilated the new lessons and are eager to show me what they've learned. I've been doing a lot of those mostly-mental lesson with Turbo as he's a quick study but I didn't want to let him do a lot physically until his legs were a little more mature.





Roadwork sounds like a good way to go with the Toad as it will keep his little mind busy without pushing him faster than he's ready to go with new equipment and new physical tasks.

Leia


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## drivin*me*buggy (Oct 11, 2011)

He is adorable


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## Sandee (Oct 11, 2011)

Just be careful with yourself, Jane. Our older bods don't bounce back as fast and for some reason our minds never realize that we got older.


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 12, 2011)

Sometimes I really hate this Forum- it just ate all my previous reply plus pictures posted, the lot, and I really am in no state to do it all again.

OK I shall try again:

Yesterday I could do nothing as I was knackered. Today I started off as firm as I could be- I have realised that I have being cutting this highly strung, delicate little flower just too much slack, so I started off as I meant to go on today.

He was BRILLIANT.

After a couple of turns in the round pen I took him out into the main field and then....and then....we TROTTED !!

Oh, yes we did, all the way round the field. I swear he stuck his tongue out at Rabbit as we went past.

When I slowed him down, he slowed, no arguments. When I said "Whoa" he stopped.

I swear I could have hitched him up, but the saner part of my mind persuaded me not to be so silly.

However tomorrow I shall get the cart out and I shall pull it round the field a few times with him in front and see what happens.

I am not so daft as to try anything like hitching him before I have him bitted and going properly, but it s all getting quite exciting. I have gone from doubting I would actually gt him hitched to thinking he is almost ready in two days, it is just amazing what a bit of firm handling and consistent training can do for a horse....


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## bannerminis (Oct 12, 2011)

Loving the story and I think he looks amazing and also loving the spots on his bum as they are lovely and dark now his coat is coming in.


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## paintponylvr (Oct 12, 2011)

I love the updates on progress! Is he pulling the tyre in these pics (above - the "extra" straps that show below or next to your driving lnes)?

I suppose if I was to get a "real" mini, I would need to find a "happy appy"... but for now, I'm good with my larger Shetlands with pinto spots.


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 13, 2011)

Yes, he is now pulling the tyre all the time. Today I was going to introduce the cart (me pulling, not him!!) but I am not too good at the moment and I fell asleep in the caravan for three hours!! So nothing got done. UGH.


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## New mini (Oct 13, 2011)

I love reading your updates. He is a beautiful horse. I just love the spots I would love one like that. I am bring my mini home on Sat. I am very excited about that. He is a proven driving horse but I know I will go through things with him getting to know his ways and him getting to know mine.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 14, 2011)

Take care of yourself, Jane. He's got a LOOONG time to get broke but it won't happen if you break first!

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 14, 2011)

Well, Leia if there is one word I would like to remove from the horsepersons vocabulary, it is "broke"

I harness train.

It never ends, like life experience.

The Spotted Toad has just started his journey, it will be a long one and he is going to take some active prodding to get him past some of the obstacles, but, one way or another, he will go in the cart and he will learn to enjoy it.

If it kills me





I am learning that, just like certain horses I have saddle trained in the past, the more difficult ones are often the ones most worth having- he takes a while to reach each stage but, once he has reached it, it appears to be learned and accepted.

No more rearing and pirouetting, for example, even when he is a bit upset.

We are back to strong halts, I have even got a good half halt- I thought it was accident but, no, he does it well, and they can be handy.

Yes, it is going to take a while but he is going to be worth the wait.....


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 14, 2011)

I couldn't make the joke about you breaking without saying you were breaking him, sorry.



I hate that term too. Just read my signature line!

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 14, 2011)

I know!

We should make a list of words to remove form the dictionary:

"break"

"overo".....

Anyway, I am now officially broken. I over did it this pm and my back is wretched- the Toad is just going to have to start pulling the cart as I have reached the end of my ability to walk behind him. I got the cart out this pm and pulled it behind him...he had a hissy fit and I just held him and let him have it. When he stopped the cart was still there, I was still there and the sky had not fallen on his head so he buckled to and walked on - I did not have the tyre there as well, I thought that would be too much, so, in the end he was walking inside the shafts and he took the feel of them as he turned very well. Tomorrow if I can actually walk, I am putting the false shafts (If I can find them) on him as I cannot keep pulling the cart round- it is a bit heavy and he is no way ready to hitch. I bitted him today, and put the rein on the bit and the halter square- he was brilliant. It is just a little nylon "colt bit". still a bit big, he has a minute mouth, I am going to need a 3" I think!!

I only worked for about half an hour as that was all I could do,but he was a bit sweated form the hissy fit, so I felt he had done enough.

I may leave him tomorrow, on second thoughts- he is often better for a day to think things over.

I REALLY need that harness, I have to make a decision soon as, even if he were ready to hitch, I have bits of four harnesses on him at the moment!!


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 15, 2011)

What is wrong with my breeching??

I have been jiggling around with 3 separate harnesses and now I have the breast collar right and the crupper I cannot get the breeching to sit right. Is it just too small?? UGH.






I am pleased with his reaction to the bit- he is doing loads of mouthing and he still opens his mouth a lot but on the whole he is accepting it well.






Turns are good- sometimes still a little more immediate than I would like(!) but we are working on that.






And we will now trot in a straight line, but I have to get enough control to start turning at the trot, we are not there yet, but it is a good steady pace.






Ah, you caught me, this is not a horse!! But how could I resist taking a picture of such a handsome lad, posing??


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 23, 2011)

The Toad is hitched.

I have a load of pictures of driving him in the PVC pipes, and then the pipes and the tyre and then yesterday he was just so settled I thought "OK, I think maybe we could go on a step now...." So today I worked him in the pies and tyre for a bit then brought out the cart and just put the shafts in the tugs and pushed/held the cart to stop it slipping and away we went. Yes, he tried to go a lot faster than I was ready for and yes, I think maybe I was a little previous on this- I shall go back to the pipes now, maybe get a set of wheels for them- it was the height of the seat that was unsettling him, he is used to his nice white pipes and the silly tyre and then suddenly there is this big black thing following him round the field!

He did, however, work in the big black thing for about half an hour, at the end of which he was settled down.

I have no pictures, there just was no safe point at which I can step back enough to take pictures, not yet.

I reckon we are half way there, and I am happy with that considering a little while ago I was seriously wondering if I would ever get him in the shafts at all!!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 24, 2011)

Yaaaaay, Toad!!! Good job!



rabbitsfizz said:


> What is wrong with my breeching??
> 
> I have been jiggling around with 3 separate harnesses and now I have the breast collar right and the crupper I cannot get the breeching to sit right. Is it just too small?? UGH.


Sorry, missed this the first time around. The breeching looks fine to me, the only thing I see is that the hipstrap is a bit far forward but that may be helping the rest of the breeching hang straight rather than tipping up in the front.



rabbitsfizz said:


> So today I worked him in the pies and tyre for a bit then brought out the cart and just put the shafts in the tugs and pushed/held the cart to stop it slipping and away we went. Yes, he tried to go a lot faster than I was ready for and yes, I think maybe I was a little previous on this- I shall go back to the pipes now, maybe get a set of wheels for them- *it was the height of the seat that was unsettling him*, he is used to his nice white pipes and the silly tyre and then suddenly there is this big black thing following him round the field!


Turbo did that too- he was fine with the white PVC pipes, fine with a tire dragging behind him, fine with following the black EE, walking beside it, even "pushing" it forward with his chest/nose as he walked between the shafts facing the cart at liberty, but was getting very nervous when asked to walk between the shafts with the cart following him. I had a friend come over to help and discovered by accident that what he was missing was the intermediate step of "something tall walking right behind him with the white PVC shafts." As soon as I had this tall, imposing woman pick up the pipe ends he got nervous but I was able to click him for taking those first few hesitant steps forward and after that he was like "OH! This is still a game of 'ignore what doesn't matter and focus on my driver?' I can do that! She's not hurting me, after all." You could see him gaining confidence by the minute after that and he was in the roadster cart within two days. I suspect I still would have needed to take my time with him to make sure he really understood before putting him in the EE but I sort of sidestepped that problem by first hitching him to that rig as pair. He was entirely focused on going forward at that point, took confidence from his experienced buddy and couldn't have cared less about the tall cart! By the time I hitched him to it single a few weeks later he didn't even blink at it.

Good on you for getting him going. I bet he looks stunning in cart!

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 25, 2011)

Well, he more than "voiced" his displeasure today. It is a good job I have a tall hedge on two sides of my field as we ended up head on in one of them. I made him walk back down the field at slightly less than warp factor two but I took him out then and went back to the pipes. Tomorrow I have a set of wheels I am going to attach to the pipes- darn it all, if I have to paint the flipping EE white I will!!

The Toad WILL pull the cart.

He likes playing, he loves all the serpentines and straight forward cone work, and will even do it at a trot- but the cart is too much like hard work, I think, and I had trouble with the work ethic right at the start.

If he is really going to be silly I'll cut out most of the ground work and get him out in traffic, give him something else to think about.

I cannot do much more of this walking and running around behind him lark, he has to start doing most of the work!


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 28, 2011)

I am going to KILL him!!























I swear I shall turn him into hamburger.






OK, calming down a bit- he has decided he has never seen anything before and he is going to have a nervous breakdown at EVERYTHING.

Did anyone realise Bokephalus was spotted???

He shies at his shadow- big time, he then has a fit because the shafts bump his backside, which is how we ended up in the hedge the other day- the cart shafts do not bend!!

_Eventually_ and it was eventually- twenty minutes of hard slog, telling him off, praising him, threatening him with the rendering plant, etc, he did settle, and we did serpentines up the filed that would have turned John Travolta green with envy.

"Shafts? What shafts?"

As I said, I am going to dismember him slowly with a blunt knife.

OK, seriously, tomorrow we go out. How quickly we come home depends entirely on how much control I have- I am leaving the field gate OPEN!





















EEK, an evil shadow, quick, run away....






Oh, well, OK, maybe it's not so scary after all.....

(Ugh I need to sort those breeching straps out)


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## Marsha Cassada (Oct 29, 2011)

He's going to be worth it! What a handsome fellow!


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 29, 2011)

I have adjusted the "cart" so that it now looks like a white sulky- the shafts are now raised up to seat level, pity it is not strong enough to hold me!

We went out after I had worked him for twenty minutes- I am completely relaxed now, and that really helps, but I am going to be really tense when I put him to the proper cart again, I am not going to be able to help it. OH well.

We went out, we went down to look at the river, we declined to walk through it so we had to go over the rickety rackety bridge (the troll was asleep) then we went up to the bridleway and we trotted all the way down it and now I am DEAD!!

It was quite a long walk out for a little horse who has never left the field before except on a horsebox. He was BRILLIANT- you know I hate this horse so much, he is just laughing at me, all the time. Too smart for his own good. I went down to mend the electric fence as someone, (mentioning no names) had noticed the battery was low and had climbed over it, and there he was, on the wrong side of the fence, so I rushed at him shouting minor obscenities and he climbed over the dead wire and trotted up to me as I stood there waving a hammer at him. He pushed his nose into the hammer and licked it. What can you do???

Tomorrow, if I am relaxed, if the weather is good, if I think the time is right, he goes back in the cart.


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## susanne (Oct 29, 2011)

Jane,

I love hearing your adventures in training with your little spotty boy -- he sure looks great! I totally empathize with health issues interfering with your training schedule...

Outlining your process is so valuable, showing how an experienced horseperson takes the time to cover all the bases, with minis as well as biggies.

Just out of curiosity, does he have any problem with the sound of the PVC pipes? Either when they bump or just with breeze passing over?

The reason I ask is that my trainer suggested filling the PVC with something, as she had otherwise calm horses spook at them -- they can make a creepy sound.

I agree that the most challenging horses are, in the end, the most enjoyable -- Mingus is absolute proof of that!


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 30, 2011)

Well, even though it is nearly Halloween, we haven't had any spooky noises from the pipes yet- I never even thought of it!

He has enough on his plate, what with spooking at the nasty seats on the playing fields (well known to eat horses) and trying to convince me there was a bear in the clump of trees we passed- we went out in the "sulky" today, and he had to learn it all again as he had the cart to consider! He was right up on his toes and spooking at everything so I did not put him to the EE (I was considering doing it today) and I am glad I did not- I really, really need to get a proper whip, I do not have enough hind end control with the little flappy thing I have at the moment, and he knows it. Half the time he is just having a laugh at my expense. The last laugh will be mine, however, as I had him gelded so I could drive him, and drive him I shall!


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 2, 2011)

Well, the day before yesterday we had a potential disaster!

He was on his toes all the time and finally lost it at the gate (no idea why the gate, he just took exception to it's being there!) He took off, I pulled him into a circle and he saw what I was doing, put his head against the reins and took the whole thing off round the field.

It was something to watch, I can tell you. There was absolutely nothing I could do except let him run himself out, which, after a couple of minutes that seemed like forever, he did. The little pipe cart stood up to it well, it was still there when he was ready to capitulate and I was able to catch him and drive him back round the field for a bit, til he calmed down.

All the time he was strutting up and down the fence, after the first panic, I thought, "Look at that stride, look at the _length_ of it!I can't see him move when I am running along behind.

OK, I wish it had not happened and I am still not too sure how it did, but, Oh MY he can move.

Yesterday I gave him a day off while I took the cart apart and put it back together again in a slightly different order- more stable shafts- and today he was very up on his toes and dancing around- I think it may be time to accept he is going to need blinkers- I have never used them before, but, like a running martingale or a pelham bit, if they are needed then I guess I am going to be using them. I may try tomorrow.

He hates the wind, always has, and today was a little windy, but part of it is an excuse to act up- I am being a lot firmer with him now. Still need to get myself a proper whip!


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## BannerBrat (Nov 3, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Well, the day before yesterday we had a potential disaster!
> 
> He was on his toes all the time and finally lost it at the gate (no idea why the gate, he just took exception to it's being there!) He took off, I pulled him into a circle and he saw what I was doing, put his head against the reins and took the whole thing off round the field.
> 
> ...


LOL, I have really enjoyed reading your saga. May I remind you there is a lot to be said for having a 'This is your job, it's not a big deal, shut up and listen for a minute.' attitude. I listen to my horses, but they also listen to me.




Good luck, be careful, and keep updating!


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## shelterwood (Nov 3, 2011)

Well, I can add my own little adventure to this story, might make you feel better to hear about someone else's TOAD!! I was driving my 2 year old mare, who has only been hitched a few times, around our property last weekend. She is a stinker, with the attitude of steely defiance at times, although mostly out of lack of confidence I am finding. She does not express her low self esteem through typical outward methods like spooking, fidgeting, or fussing. She simply lets it build and then blows apparently. Well, I had her hitched and did a short bit of ground driving behind the cart to check harness fit and her overall attitude (also had ground driven her for a bit without cart). She was going fine for a few passes, so i got in the cart. Now if you all remember my pics of my cart, it is a little blue sulky style cart, not ideal, I know, for training, but its what I have. So, I learned the danger of a training cart which requires one to climb in between green horse and cart! I got settled and asked for a walk-up, which she ignored. I touched her mouth slightly, just took up some slack to get her attention, and asked for a walk-up again as well as a turn/give to the left. Well, apparently this was too much, and she half-reared and went right, unseating me slightly, dragged me through some brush, them hopped and jumper her way a bit, then backed us into the electric fence of the pasture! Luckily, the shafts on this cart are wooden, but the frame of the seat is metal, so I could feel the fence. At this point I firmly WHOAed her, told her to stand, which she did, and was able to climb out of my dangerous place between her freaking out self and the cart. Needless to say, I was lucky I kept my feet and had my helmet on. Well, we are CLEARLY backing up in our training to just ground driving. I plan on hitching her again just once before winter so she has a positive experience, but that's it. Just ground work until she matures and gets some more experience. And this is a horse who has been doing ground work since this last spring! So, it's not just your TOAD rabittsfizz, and after reading another thread on the forum before this one, I feel it's important to post our mistakes so people can learn that this is a dangerous pursuit we undertake even with these little, tolerant critters. Slow and steady wins the race, and I in no way want to ruin this little horse as she is a little tank and will be a fabulous trail driving pony.


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 3, 2011)

This is precisely why I do very little grounddriving with the cart hitched to the horse. In Jane's case she had NO opportunity to stop the horse because he left her behind. In Shelterwood's case she did have opportunity to stop the horse before anything really bad happened because she was in the cart and WITH the horse. I do like an easy entry for training though



Makes my life so much less dangerous!

Shelterwood: I would NOT leave it for any length of time to hitch your horse again IF you do want her to drive. If you leave this bad experience for her to think on she will only be worse the next time. You need to get back on that cart and try again. IF you aren't confidant enough to do that without being a nervous wreck it is time for you to seek the help of a professional trainer.

Jane: Ditto the above for you as well. It is time you put a proper cart to Toad and get in and drive. There is very little chance to stop a bolting horse when you are on the ground. That is the reason the ADS has made the ruling that when a horse is hitched there MUST be someone in the driver's seat. What horse is the most likely to bolt? One that is very green and in early stages of training. Once a horse knows how to drive via grounddriving and it is time to introduce the cart the quicker you get in the seat the better!

For both of you: (and anyone else whose horse has had a similar experience) Now that your horses have had a bad experience with the cart they are going to be MUCH more nervous about their next experience with a cart. I would advise you BOTH to seek the help of a trainer, friend or neighbour while re-introducing the cart. Have them hold onto a sturdy leadrope or lungeline attached to a sturdy halter under the driving bridle. They are not there to lead the horse but to help you stop him preventing injury to yourself or the horse, if it is necessary. Have them walk along behind and off to the side with a loose lead until they are called into service should your horse bolt again.


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## shelterwood (Nov 3, 2011)

Lori,

Thanks for the reply! I actually was just out today with a friend and knowledgeable horse person and ground drove and then hitched my mare (my thoughts and my friends thoughts echoed yours, that the sooner the better to avoid bigger problems). She did well, a little jumpy at first about the breeching, so I wonder if I didn't notice that either the breeching rode up or a rein got under there, so I did a lot of desensitizing while on the ground first. But the actual drive went well. She was attentive, we kept it short, about 15 minutes, and praised and praised her.

I appreciate the advice that ground driving with a cart is not a good idea. I actually do very little of this. I tend to drive my mares up a few steps to bring them into the cart with draught, check fit, then get in the cart.

Sorry rabbitsfizz, I hijacked your thread!! Back to the TOAD.....

Katie


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 3, 2011)

Not at all I like hearing other peoples messes!!

Lori, I drove him again straight away, gave him the day off the next day as I was adjusting the cart, then put him back in yesterday and today. Today he actually settled down but there is NO way I am getting in a cart behind him yet! Sorry.

When he blows he blows- up out down, sideways, you name it he goes, if you did stop him he would just go berserk. I have to go back over the basics with him, seriously, and concentrate on what he is worst at, which is standing still. He hates it. He hates standing when he is not hitched, but hitched up he trots on the spot (I have a miniature Paso!) The second time he blew up I was ready for him and did pull him round in a circle- there was NO way I could hold him, and unless he was anchored to my friends Land Rover (and believe me I am thinking about it) I do not think anyone could hold him, he was just going to go!

I drove him out round the playing fields (windy again today) and he bounced the whole way.

I have to find a closed bridle- I do not actually own one, I find, which is a bit silly, and although I hoped to drive him open, I do not think that is going to happen.

I alwasy said if I met a horse that actually needs blinkers I would put them on, so, on they go!!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 4, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> ...there is NO way I am getting in a cart behind him yet! Sorry. When he blows he blows- up out down, sideways, you name it he goes, if you did stop him he would just go berserk.* I have to go back over the basics with him, seriously, and concentrate on what he is worst at*, which is standing still.


I think this is very wise. There are definitely times where a firm hand is all that's needed to get them to knock off the nonsense, but at some point you have to ask "is this worth getting both of us hurt?" Go back to basics. Instill "Whoa." Instill (as you've already begun to) "When I say knock it off or trust me, you need to do so." And insist on calm, brain-fully-engaged acceptance of each step before moving on to the next one. Yes, he needs to get over the silliness, but at the same time it wouldn't hurt him to have a lot more hours in the training shafts so he has plenty of positive experiences to outweigh the negative. He's still a teenager mentally! Give him time to grow up and think things over and a reason to decide life is more fun when between the shafts. Find what motivates him and use it.



rabbitsfizz said:


> I have to find a closed bridle- I do not actually own one, I find, which is a bit silly, and although I hoped to drive him open, I do not think that is going to happen. I alwasy said if I met a horse that actually needs blinkers I would put them on, so, on they go!!


That's what blinkers are there for- to save them from obsessing over and worrying about things that don't concern them. It's great that many horses go well without them and like it, but it's hardly animal abuse to block their view rearwards so they can relax if that's what they need. I'm sure he'll be much happier once he doesn't have to worry about that scary tall thing!

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 4, 2011)

Teenager....yeah, that's him. Won't get out of bed except to eat and won't clean his room. Sees no reason at all why he should do any work since he has not had to up to date.

Can't find the flipping closed bridle anywhere so he is just going to have to get a grip til I can dig one up!


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## Sue_C. (Nov 4, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Teenager....yeah, that's him. Won't get out of bed except to eat and won't clean his room. Sees no reason at all why he should do any work since he has not had to up to date.
> 
> Can't find the flipping closed bridle anywhere so he is just going to have to get a grip til I can dig one up!


Try just adding a set of halter fluffies as "kant see backs" for now, and see how that works. I generally do this anyways as a half-way measure before going to the full bridle.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 4, 2011)

OK, I finally found a closed bridle- it is not up to much but I can make it work til I get something better. I expected at least a bit of balking but I swear I heard him sigh with relief!

He was still a bit naughty and I was very, very firm this time, right form the start. It is not only DC who needs to get their confidence back- I was rattled too. The horse can never see what might have happened, it only ever sees what did happen- and then it is often forgotten in a few minutes. I saw DC spread over three fields and a main road, he just saw an annoying white thing bouncing along behind him!

So, we have a real resistance to turning to the right, which I had not noticed before, and a real attitude when asked to stop. He has mouth like silk- I do not even touch the rein, just apply pressure- it's more like riding, but I am having trouble with the rear end now the front is engaged!

I really really need to buy a proper driving whip, the one I am using does not have a proper lash on it.

I also need to remember to tell him what to do and to remember he cannot see behind him so I have to think all the manoeuvring for him.

Aah well, I can at least see us being in the proper cart before too long, now.

Just as well as my legs are not working properly after all that exercise and my back is killing me.

The Toad looks quite trim, though!


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## Sue_C. (Nov 4, 2011)

> , but I am having trouble with the rear end now the front is engaged


Now, I have noticed that you have your reins through the turrets, and would like to suggest something that is a bit different, and gives you that control of the hind end that you need. this is the same way that I trained my riding horses as well, only I tied the stirrups together at the girth, and ran the long reins through them.






I too do a lot of walking behind my greenies, but also do a lot of long-reining around me...that gives me a break from all that walking while still keeping the horse at work.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 5, 2011)

Thanks Sue, for the input, but the trouble I am having is in the cart, not just ground driving- the difference I see is especially in the cart- I think he knows I am more sensitive then, and he calls me on it!

He will turn to the left no problem, even with the shafts there, and he will engage quite well, but when I ask for right he is all on his toes and resistive. I do have an extra set of reins (or two



) I could try one set through the terrets and one set loose- what do you think??


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 5, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> He will turn to the left no problem, even with the shafts there, and he will engage quite well, but when I ask for right he is all on his toes and resistive.


Did you have his teeth done before starting to drive him? Did he injure his mouth at all the other day when he was running loose with the "cart" hitched? Did he get banged or poked with the cart on the right side when he was running loose? Any of those things could be causing trouble now as you said you didn't notice it earlier.

Are you asking for BIG wide sweeping turns to either side? All horses "bend" or at least turn and appear to bend more easily to the left when they are green than they do to the right. At this stage of training all your turns should be quite large and loose - he should barely feel the shafts on his sides.

You can use your voice to encourage him to move on and get his rear end engaged but you also need to have that "proper" whip - it can also be a long whippy stick that you can flick him with. Any willow near by?


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 5, 2011)

As far as I can ascertain there was no damage to his mouth during the runaway- the reins were over the back of the cart (no idea how- pure luck!)

Teeth done, wolf teeth removed, about six months ago.

I _ask_ for the turns described, I get immediate hyper response or resistance on his right side, so we can get "crabby" little turns, that I am trying to avoid by tricking him into thinking we are going to turn left and then turning right, does that make any sense at all?

It is almost all done by thought transference- he is SO light mouthed it is not true- this is one of the problems with his halt- he comes to a halt easily but when I ask for a strong stand he dances behind the bit (this is when I miss a proper whip most!) and will even half rear. At the moment I am calling his bluff and pushing him up back into the bit. I think we just need a lot more work- the amount I can do is still limited and is not going to get any better (I have ME) I am going to try round penning him first and doing some stretches- let's work on the whole horse!. If nothing else I shall lose some weight and he is going to be so flipping fit.

I had a good time today, it was relaxed and he more or less behaved- I am trying to get some wire into the blinker holders as we speak, they were rubbing his eyes and I do not need him distracted by something else right now, he has enough excuses.


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## Sue_C. (Nov 5, 2011)

The black in the picture had a problem with the bit, and I found that as soon as I wrapped it in latex (bit wrap) that fixed the problem. He simply has very sensitive bars, but he eventually accepted an unwrapped bit in time.

Another I was training, started out well, but developed a resistance to one side, much the same as you lil guy. It took me a couple of days to find the problem, but he had one canine coming in; totally unexpected at his age. Again, I wrapped the bit and was careful not to bump that side, and as soon as the tooth broke the surface, he was fine.

Does your guy show a similar resistance when driven with the halter, as with the bridle?


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 5, 2011)

I'm hesitant to offer advice to someone with so many more years behind a horse than I have but I always try to make the turn make some logical sense to the horse. I prefer to use a line of posts but have used trees, cones and simply trails that have curves and bends. Then when I ask my horse to turn they can see the 'why' of it and I find they begin to also translate how much turn I need by the amount of rein cue combined with the obstacle they are turning around/past. Just a thought.


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## Sue_C. (Nov 5, 2011)

Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> I'm hesitant to offer advice to someone with so many more years behind a horse than I have but I always try to make the turn make some logical sense to the horse. I prefer to use a line of posts but have used trees, cones and simply trails that have curves and bends. Then when I ask my horse to turn they can see the 'why' of it and I find they begin to also translate how much turn I need by the amount of rein cue combined with the obstacle they are turning around/past. Just a thought.


Yes, I too have found that just going out and "playing" rather than "working" with them helps a lot if it really is a mind-resistance rather then a physical one.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 6, 2011)

Right, I'll try wrapping the bit today- anything is worth a try and it is so long since I have taken a horse from start to finish with these problems I am probably forgetting to do things I would once have done! I do remember years and years ago wrapping a bit for a colt I was backing, and that really did work, so, I'll try it, thanks.

Reignmaker, never hesitate!

I have three cones out- I'll put out some more today and see if it helps.

I can't remember how he was in the halter- he never did the work he is doing now, but I can certainly take the bridle off and try in the halter and see, that at least, would give me an indication of what is going on.

Thanks.


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 6, 2011)

My trainer has me wrap the bit on my boy that I am ground driving. It helped alot.




His teeth were fine and I use a straight bit, but the wrapping really seemed to help alot for him.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 7, 2011)

Worked him for half an hour in the round pen and really made him listen- this was after I had driven him out in just the halter (ground driving) and he was very, very naughty, tried to take off, resisted as much in the halter as he had done in a bridle, reared, jumped up and down on the spot and generally got a very loud talking to about his behaviour in general. Yesterday he had tried to decamp with the cart again and I was so cross I pulled him round in a circle, jumped in front of him and picked him up and shook him! No mean feat, I am not sure who was more surprised but I decided I was not doing that again





I have found I have allowed him to get some very bad habits, and now we have to go back and sort them out, and It is really my fault, I cannot blame him for taking advantage. I changed the bit, and he is a lot happier in a bar bit, fine, that gave me a chance to do a bit of listening without him jiggling around. I have been harnessing and unharnessing in the same place every day, and then feeding, consequently I now have a horse who really only wants to get back to one place and fill his face!

So, today we started off with half the feed before he worked, and in a different spot, then we did a bit of going in and out of all three gates, coming back, going half way, turning- you get the idea- then we worked in the round pen, longreining form the middle and making him stay out on the rail, which he hated- he has always been able to cut corners when I was working him loose and he saw no reason why he should stop! I gave him one.

Actually, I gave him quite a few reasons, and after about 1/4 hour he actually settled into a working trot on the rail either way- success.

Then I asked for a proper walk- again with the resisting- when he is loose I have a lot of trouble getting a walk, he will "fall"forward into a trot all the time or come to a halt,anyway, today he walked, albeit crossly.

Then we went out into the main field and practised going in and out of that gate, which he also hated, then I finally hitched him up and I think he was just so relieved to actually be doing something he understood he was really quite good.

After we had done a bit of that I unhitched him and we went in and out of the gate again and back into the last yard, where I untacked him and led him through to another new place where he was fed.

It is all a bit like the "National Confuse a Cat Week" sketch form Monty Python, but I shall either be dead or very fit by the time this animal is actually driving.


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## Sandee (Nov 7, 2011)

Hang in there, Jane. Sometimes it's one step forward and two back but they are still learning. I know how you feel about "who's going to outlast the other". I feel that way quite often with my horses.

I'm been rewarded of late in my work with my Shetland as he seems to be learning more and more faster and faster. I think his problem was he had no confidence in himself and very little handling by people before he was 5.


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 7, 2011)

When you find yourself getting cross or losing your temper with a horse it is time to quit working. 99% of the time if the horse is not giving you what you are asking for there is either a physical reason for his disobedience or you are not being clear in your signals when asking. There are very few horses that disobey just for the sake of disobeying. I have always found horses to be one of the most honest animals.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 8, 2011)

Nine times out of ten, I would agree completely, Lori, but this has gone way beyond that now. It is in no way a battle of wills- and I am not, I can assure you, getting angry, just a little peeved- he just does not believe, I honestly think, that there is any reason why he should work.

We'll see how he goes tomorrow as he had an enforced day off today when I went to pick up a horse.


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## Driving Miss Dixie (Nov 8, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Nine times out of ten, I would agree completely, Lori, but this has gone way beyond that now. It is in no way a battle of wills- and I am not, I can assure you, getting angry, just a little peeved- he just does not believe, I honestly think, that there is any reason why he should work.
> 
> We'll see how he goes tomorrow as he had an enforced day off today when I went to pick up a horse.



I have been following Toad's story because he sounds so much like my gelding, and it makes me wonder if some minis are just not very trainable? I have a 2 year old gelding that has always been on the difficult side (compared to my others). His reactions are far more explosive than the others. I have been thinking I will not put him in training to drive, as I don't think I would want to be driving somewhere and have him explode. He is a real character, with a good personality, and he will be my pet.

But I am wondering if it is possible to push them through their difficult ways and become a good driving horse????


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 8, 2011)

Driving Miss Dixie said:


> I have been following Toad's story because he sounds so much like my gelding, and it makes me wonder if some minis are just not very trainable? I have a 2 year old gelding that has always been on the difficult side (compared to my others). His reactions are far more explosive than the others. I have been thinking I will not put him in training to drive, as I don't think I would want to be driving somewhere and have him explode. He is a real character, with a good personality, and he will be my pet.
> 
> But I am wondering if it is possible to push them through their difficult ways and become a good driving horse????


There are very few horses that are completely NOT trainable. They may or may not be suitable for driving but then you just have to find their niche. No one training method works for all horses and quite often you have to revise the way you are asking to get what you are looking for from your horse. I have quite often been surprised by a horse that is difficult in hand who becomes a dream in harness, or whatever job has been chosen for him, or vice versa. Frequently the more difficult the horse is to train the better he ends up being trained and the more dependable horse he becomes in the long run simply because he has learned to deal with more than the horse that just goes along with whatever you have asked of him. I find the ones that think for themselves tend to be harder to work with because you have to be constantly outthinking them to stay a step ahead but in the end they are a much better partner because they will quite often keep you out of trouble.


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## susanne (Nov 8, 2011)

> I have quite often been surprised by a horse that is difficult in hand who becomes a dream in harness, or whatever job has been chosen for him, or vice versa. Frequently the more difficult the horse is to train the better he ends up being trained and the more dependable horse he becomes in the long run simply because he has learned to deal with more than the horse that just goes along with whatever you have asked of him. I find the ones that think for themselves tend to be harder to work with because you have to be constantly outthinking them to stay a step ahead but in the end they are a much better partner because they will quite often keep you out of trouble.



*^^THIS!!^^*

I am on a first name basis with the poster pony for this statement!

...and would add (more for Driving Miss Dixie's 2-year-old than the Toad) that some horses simply take longer to mature.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, to be fair to DC he is only rising four, so maybe he is a late bloomer?

He certainly does think- he is never going to be an easy horse to drive.

The Arab I kept for riding was like this- she was lunatic and it is thanks to her I now have two back injuries (one was completely my fault, the other was completely my responsibility!) But once she was actually finished, although she always needed a very experienced rider, she was brilliant. I wanted to ride side saddle? Slap one on Amira, she'll take it, and she did, balancing strap and all. She learned to jump properly because one of the kids ponies went lame at PC camp and they needed a horse so I trucked her over there- she won the regional champs for their team even though she had never jumped inside before, and I lost my horse because after that the kids knicked her from me and used her and I only got her when they were at school!

I think at two I would be inclined to say the animal is too young to do anything more than assess it's personality- certainly no two year old of mine would go near a cart and I would normally say I would not even long rein- but I actually think in DCs case if I had long reined him and worked him a bit more, even if it was only mind exercising lessons, I would not have half the trouble I am having. I have had it FAR too easy with my MInis till now- most are willing and tractable.

DC is not.

I can remember only too well what Mr Mingus used to be like.

DC just doesn't know yet how much better his life is going to be when he has a job to do.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 29, 2011)

OK, its been nearly 3 full weeks since I got my 'Toad' fix and I'm hoping you have an update for us. I miss hearing about him.


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## Shari (Nov 29, 2011)

I found with the hard ones, finish the training you are doing now, on a very good note and let them be a horse for a 6 months to a year.

I pull them out of pasture after that lay over, and they are willing and happy to work. Some just take a lot longer to mature.


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## Sue_C. (Nov 30, 2011)

Shari said:


> I found with the hard ones, finish the training you are doing now, on a very good note and let them be a horse for a 6 months to a year.
> 
> I pull them out of pasture after that lay over, and they are willing and happy to work. Some just take a lot longer to mature.


Ditto that. Actually, the mare I am driving now was sooo not ready even as a four year old. I waited till she was five, and don't have a moments regret as she is sound in mind, (still a prankster, mind you) and we have a happy, solid partnership.



She showed how unready she was with her juvenile "need" to push-back...waiting had always served me well with my riding horses, so figured it would work with her, and my patience has been rewarded tenfold.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 30, 2011)

Both DC and Misty are having a bit of a break- it was just too much like hard work and if you can't make it fun at all, well, something is seriously wrong!!

I am going to bring them both back into work probably around Christmas if the weather permits- if it snows then Misty will be back in work because I shall need him to bring feed up etc- he did all that for me last year, no problemo, so I am hoping he will do it again.

Both of them are quite put out- DC was pawing at the gate this afternoon, and looking pretty!

Misty is such a sweet little guy that I think, as both ponies behaved in a similar fashion, both are almost exactly the same age, and I have never had this much trouble in my life before (!!) there is maybe some tooth issues going on- Misty had his wolf teeth removed, I am pretty sure DC did not but would have to check, I think I need to give them a breather, then, before I start again I will get them looked at and maybe even X-rayed just to make sure everything is as it should be. The brilliant thing about having the Royal Veterinary College as your Vet is that, if I am willing to fit in with them and it is not an emergency, if I am willing to have students do the work (strictly supervised) they can cut me really good deals on it, so I am going to get all that sorted before I start again. I also just cannot cope with this harness- I need a comfy fit and I need one that is made for a Mini, not a Shetland harness I have adapted!!

So, a month off now, Vet check and then back into work slowly.

My nerves can't take any more attempted suicide drives, I am too old for all this!!

I keep looking at this driving site and there are LOADS of cheap ponies, a bit bigger than a Mini, but, I do love Sec A's- there is a leopard 38" stallion, with cart and harness, guaranteed quiet, for approx $1200.

UGH!

No, BAD idea!!!


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## Shari (Nov 30, 2011)

I was lucky, I started Maggie when I was younger and not gimpy. Have been driving her for a lot of years.

Would I want to start from scratch now, ah.... nope. Can't in all honesty, to much walking.

So if I wanted another driving horse, I would buy one. Making sure it was really properly trained. Nothing wrong in that!!

Why don't you go see that fulling trained wee driving horse, you never know, he just might be what you want and need!


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 30, 2011)

Shari, you are really NOT supposed to be encouraging me!!!


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## Shari (Nov 30, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Shari, you are really NOT supposed to be encouraging me!!!



OK ...well.......

........ I can't wait to see photos!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for the update



I have been following DC's story because I have a young guy that I will be starting in the spring that I already know is going to take more work/time/patience than any I have done before. Reading your struggles helps me plan methods of dealing with what he will throw my way







rabbitsfizz said:


> Shari, you are really NOT supposed to be encouraging me!!!


For what its worth, I agree with Shari, you won't know unless you look. You know what you have now and what its going to take to get where you want to be. Maybe the trained horse is not as good as advertised but then again, maybe he's exactly the horse you hope to train DC to be. You are perfectly capable of making the judgment and walking away if its not a step up for you. As for the down time, I absolutely agree with that approach, my horses in training often get breaks to clear the air. Sometimes its a day or a week, sometimes months but usually its until 'I' can go back to it with a clear mind and less going into it with the expectation of trouble. I find it is very often me that needs to step back and rethink things, sometimes to find a new approach, sometimes to adjust my own attitude.



Hopefully if there is a physical problem with DC you will find it and things will go more smoothly when you are ready to restart.


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## targetsmom (Nov 30, 2011)

Really appreciate the update and also can appreciate your dilemma! I think you should take a look anyway. Reading about your trials and tribulations has helped me put our training issues into perspective and I'll bet it has helped others who may just be lurking. Yes, sometimes it is best to take a break, which we did recently too. Training to drive is not a race. I have to keep reminding myself that the trained mare I am using for an example NOW, was not easy to train herself, just a few years ago.

Oh, and for those of you who have never trained a horse to drive and are considering it, please read these posts carefully.


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 1, 2011)

With my own horses I quite frequently start them in the spring, leave them over the summer and start them back up again in the fall OR start them in the fall, leave them over the winter to digest what they have learned and start them back up again in the spring BUT that is when all is going well. I would not have chosen this time to leave the Toad to digest what he has experienced. I can only say that you are likely to have a much harder time when you take him back to it after him having a not so great experience even though you did ground drive him a bit after his episode. I really hope it goes better for you at that point but in my experience it isn't likely



It may be time to look at having a trainer give you a hand with him if you do want him to drive and aren't feeling confidant enough to work with him yourself.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 1, 2011)

Well, I ended on positive notes with both horses, obviously. As to laying off through the winter? As I have no indoor arena, nor access to one, that is the way I have always done it, with big and little horses.

I shall keep their hooves in the water, but I doubt I shall get them back into serious work before next spring, except if I need Misty to do some work for me, of course.


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