# Cushings & safe senior feed?



## my3minis

I've got an elderly mini mule who was just diagnosed w/Cushings. He's been dropping weight in spite of being on a very controlled diet recommended by the Yahoo Cushings group and my vet wants to get more calories in him. He's regular on dentals because he has a really screwed up mouth and can only eat soaked meals 4-5 times/day. My vet would like to get a lot more calories in him and we're torn regarding what to feed him. Obviously I want to stay away from too much starch although his insulin/glu levels are within normal range. We've added a bit of alfalfa pellets and it's only been a few days and he's perky as all get out. His pergolide has been ordered and should be here by Monday.

Has anyone had any luck with a complete feed for a Cushings mini? It goes against all the advice of the Cushings group but I want him to have much more weight on him. Currently he's on soaked Ontario Dehy cubes, plain, soaked beet pulp, Linpro vitamin supplement & omega horseshine.

Thanks so much,

Kristie & Bashful


----------



## chandab

You'll need to give his current diet time to work for him, especially if he hasn't been on it very long. and, winter complicates things. While I don't currently have a Cushings horse, I do read the yahoo group. While its not quite down at the 10% or less level the Cushings group recommends; Triple Crown senior is 13% NSC. Not a complete feed, but Progressive Nutrition has reformulated their Premium Lo-Carb and its now around 10% (might be 12%, I can't remember off the top of my head). Don't know where you are but Sterett has a low carb complete, they've changed names to like Mid-Valley or something, they are in WA state:

http://midvalleymillinghaypellets.com/low-nsc-pelleted-hay-and-balanced-mineral-program-carb-sensitive-horses-cushings-insulin-resistant-h

I know the group doesn't recommend to high of fat level, but if he's not already at the max level of the Omega Horseshine, perhaps a little more of that (or a plain flax seed, like NutraFlax or grind your own at slightly higher levels).


----------



## my3minis

Thanks so much for the reply. I'm in SW Ohio and he's been on this diet for months. The only time I've ever seen this dramatic of a weight loss was with Cushings and that case it was also an elderly horse (QH) so I insisted he be tested and, as I thought, he did come back high. Bashful is in his mid-late 20's. I thought about adding a bit of SmartPak's supplement for weight gain but I surely don't want to mess with those in/glu levels. We're trying to add soaked alfalfa pellets to the mix right now in order to add calories but it's only been a week so I'll be more patient!

SmartPak has a formula for weight gain and I may look into that also. The start of Pergolide made the world of difference to my old QH so maybe the same will apply to my mini-mule.

I appreciate the advice!


----------



## copperwood farm

Have you tried looking at Purinas Integri-T its low starch.


----------



## drmatthewtaylor

my3minis said:


> I've got an elderly mini mule who was just diagnosed w/Cushings. He's been dropping weight in spite of being on a very controlled diet recommended by the Yahoo Cushings group and my vet wants to get more calories in him. He's regular on dentals because he has a really screwed up mouth and can only eat soaked meals 4-5 times/day. My vet would like to get a lot more calories in him and we're torn regarding what to feed him. Obviously I want to stay away from too much starch although his insulin/glu levels are within normal range. We've added a bit of alfalfa pellets and it's only been a few days and he's perky as all get out. His pergolide has been ordered and should be here by Monday.
> 
> Has anyone had any luck with a complete feed for a Cushings mini? It goes against all the advice of the Cushings group but I want him to have much more weight on him. Currently he's on soaked Ontario Dehy cubes, plain, soaked beet pulp, Linpro vitamin supplement & omega horseshine.
> 
> Thanks so much,
> 
> Kristie & Bashful


Is he just Cushnoid? Or does he have equine metabolic syndrome as well?

An (1)older (2) male equine (3)who's losing weight and (4)is or has been on bute, makes me worry about kidney failure. When was the last time he had a profile run?

If you can't find a feed or hay with a low starch, you can soak it and strain out the water. Starches are water soluble and some of them can be rinsed away.

Some horses will eat a lot of fat/oil. Don't be bashful about increasing that. You can use just plain corn oil, its cheaper.

Dr Taylor


----------



## my3minis

drmatthewtaylor said:


> Is he just Cushnoid? Or does he have equine metabolic syndrome as well?
> 
> An (1)older (2) male equine (3)who's losing weight and (4)is or has been on bute, makes me worry about kidney failure. When was the last time he had a profile run?
> 
> If you can't find a feed or hay with a low starch, you can soak it and strain out the water. Starches are water soluble and some of them can be rinsed away.
> 
> Some horses will eat a lot of fat/oil. Don't be bashful about increasing that. You can use just plain corn oil, its cheaper.
> 
> Dr Taylor


He had extensive blood work run last week and all are well within normal ranges, including insulin/glucose thank goodness. I run blood work on all my horses yearly to make sure we have fairly current numbers should something come up during the year to give us a baseline since all my horses have special needs. The only thing that came back high was ACTH. We're starting him on .25mg of Pergolide that will be here today or Monday and will retest in 30-45 days to make sure dosage is correct. I usually pull ACTH 2x year to be safe. I think I'll try adding 1 c. TC Lite am & pm in addition to his other 4 meals. My vet is concerned adding too much starch could lead to IR so I want to keep a careful eye on that while packing on some pounds.

Thanks so much for the information and I'll talk to her about the oil!

Kristie & Bashful


----------



## chandab

my3minis said:


> Thanks so much for the reply. I'm in SW Ohio and he's been on this diet for months. The only time I've ever seen this dramatic of a weight loss was with Cushings and that case it was also an elderly horse (QH) so I insisted he be tested and, as I thought, he did come back high. Bashful is in his mid-late 20's. I thought about adding a bit of SmartPak's supplement for weight gain but I surely don't want to mess with those in/glu levels. We're trying to add soaked alfalfa pellets to the mix right now in order to add calories but it's only been a week so I'll be more patient!
> 
> SmartPak has a formula for weight gain and I may look into that also. The start of Pergolide made the world of difference to my old QH so maybe the same will apply to my mini-mule.
> 
> I appreciate the advice!


The alfalfa might help, but you'll need to give it time. Most weight gain products are high fat, so basically like feeding oil, just not as messy. Reading the Cushings list, flax is a "safe" form of fat to feed them, but I don't know how much you can feed before it becomes too much of a good thing.

If he needs more calories, the TC Senior, might be better than the TC Lite, even if its a bit higher in NSC; the Lite is pretty low calories.

Edited to add: Have you seen Dr Kellon's Senior horse diet recipe? Its in the ECHorsekeeping Files (and probably the regular EC group files, too); its not for IR horses, but says for regular seniors and controlled Cushings seniors with dental issues. It might work, if you can get all the ingredients (the vit/min supplement to balance it comes from Horsetech, dr Kellon formulated it).


----------



## copperwood farm

Hows the feeding going????..................WE definetly have to keep this donkey section more active!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## my3minis

copperwood farm said:


> Hows the feeding going????..................WE definetly have to keep this donkey section more active!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!


I'm so sorry for the delay in an update. I had surgery and then complications so I've been a bit down.

The feeding has gone great! I've added 1/4 c. corn oil to his AM & PM feeding along with 1/2 c. alfalfa pellets to each feeding. He also started .25 mg Pergolide on March 1 and the difference is amazing. He's back to his old self along with gaining all his weight back. He'll be retested in a few weeks to double check the Pergolide dose is correct but things are looking good!

Kristie & Bashful


----------



## Lormule

I have a mini mare that tested positive for (hypo) thyroid and border line cushings, the Pergolide proved to be too much for her to handle, with explosive diarrea and she would halusinate. We cut the meds in half and even to one third but had the same results, so desided to discontinue. She has been on Palatech for nines years, for her thyroid and just a year and a half ago our area Purina dealer told me about Purina Well Solve LS. It's low starch low sugar. She has been on it for a full year now ( along with grass hay only ) and I am quite pleased with the results and she looks very good for 21 years old. I can't tell you how to feed, but grains have proven to be the devil for her along with alfalfa. Each animal is unique with there needs, I know of others that add corn oil, it's up to us as care givers, to figure out the the recipe.

Lorre


----------

