# Question about Thimbles



## Shortpig (Feb 12, 2010)

I bought a set of thimbles for arena driving. I truly have no idea how or where to hook them into the harness.

Can someone explain to me please how to do this?


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## Marsha Cassada (Feb 12, 2010)

This is how mine are attached. This is my sulky saddle with the quick hitch. Pardon that it is dirty; it is the one I'm using with Dusty this winter; it's old, and hard to keep it clean when the horses are so furry.


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## Sue_C. (Feb 12, 2010)

I am not sure, but I think they can be attatched to the rein turrets, or the "D" rings of the tugs. I had special "D" rings sewn onto my harness for them...I found that the easiest way to go about it. I don't use them anymore, I use the screw on tug stops now, but basically they do the same job.

Kudos to you for trying something else besided over-tight wrap straps, which is seen much too often.

Marsha, do you really need the thimbles with the quick hitch attatchments? I would have thought that the quick hitch attatchment itself would prevent the shafts from moving forward.


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## Shortpig (Feb 13, 2010)

Never would I have thought to hook them there. Thanks a bunch. Now that I think about it thought it really does make sense.


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## Marsha Cassada (Feb 13, 2010)

Sue, the thimbles were on the set-up when I got it. I've never questioned whether they are necessary. Would they be a little insurance in case the hitch failed? I have had that happen to me once when I didn't make sure the pin was set properly. I do think they help some when I have to back up. Even though I only use the quick hitch and sulky for excercise jaunts and early training, I still have occasions to back up.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 13, 2010)

And of course the best assistance of all with backing up is BREECHING.



Thimbles are okay as insurance that the shafts do not slip forward through the tugs if you don't have shaft stops on your cart but they still place all the pressure of braking or moving backwards on the saddle. Unless you are showing, it is so much simpler and more comfortable for the horse to simply use breeching.

My understanding is that thimbles should be attached to the tug D (the ring the tugs/shaft loops hang from) and should be adjusted tightly enough to stop forward movement of the shafts.

Leia


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## Sue_C. (Feb 13, 2010)

> Would they be a little insurance in case the hitch failed?


Oh for sure! It never hurts to have an emergency braking system.





Most times I have seen thimbles used, it has been in a roadster or race cart...so the weight on the back saddle hasn't really been much of an issue...but with a heavy cart in the picture, yes, it can put a lot of extra pressure on the back saddle, but is STILL much better (IMHO) than simply wrapping those wrap straps so tight the poor horse is unable to move freely. You still need to wrap the straps, of course...just not _so _tight. IF the horse is in the proper position in those shafts, and there is no great "play", that too will greatly minimize the pressure on the backsaddle when the thinbles are brought into play.



> And of course the best assistance of all with backing up is BREECHING


That is a given, but in this case I assumed there was a show harness in question, or a breeching would have been on it to begin with. (??)

Myself, any time I drive, I use a breeching. Most times, I use false breechings, but have also tried thimbles in the past. I do, however, prefer using a standard breeching, or false breeching with tug stops on my shafts.


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## Shortpig (Feb 13, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> And of course the best assistance of all with backing up is BREECHING.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Sue_C. said:


> > Would they be a little insurance in case the hitch failed?
> 
> 
> Oh for sure! It never hurts to have an emergency braking system.
> ...


[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

Thanks everyone. I am planning on using a breeching also but the one I have is a little big. I'm looking at a new harness so everything fits properly. The last thing I want to have happen is the cart bump the back of the horse.

That happened once and will never, ever happen again if I can prevent it. Thank God! This girl knows whoa and did in an instant. 

Where would we be without your help.


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## RhineStone (Feb 13, 2010)

Technically, the real purpose of wrap straps is to keep the cart from flipping up over backward. Tying them down tight actually transfers the motion of the cart and bumps to the horse. I would think that would be uncomfortable. Using thimbles to help with braking is still a better setup than tight wrap straps, but breeching still uses the big, meaty hind end of the horse for stopping that vehicle over their bony withers. The study of equine ergonomics is a good thing.

Myrna


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## Sue_C. (Feb 13, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Technically, the real purpose of wrap straps is to keep the cart from flipping up over backward. Tying them down tight actually transfers the motion of the cart and bumps to the horse. I would think that would be uncomfortable. Using thimbles to help with braking is still a better setup than tight wrap straps, but breeching still uses the big, meaty hind end of the horse for stopping that vehicle over their bony withers. The study of equine ergonomics is a good thing.Myrna



I wouldn't I like to see some form of breeching on all of the minis, even in the breed ring. It doesn't have to be a big unweildy mass of straps,



just a small breeching with one cross-over strap is all you need...or, use a false breeching like I do, and it isn't even on the horse...but does the same job.

If you just want to keep the cart from flipping, you don't really need wrap straps either, you can use the different tugs, with a simple over-girth strap to keep them down. That is definately going to be on my next harness...no more wrap straps...and I would love to find the harness I want with a sliding back-band as well...but they are impossible to find, so it seems.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 13, 2010)

I love my sliding backband from Chimacum Tack and the open tugs that go with it.



They're so much faster to hitch up than wrap straps! I'll have to try your false breeching one of these times as it really does sound like a good idea.

(For the new drivers, just remember: Do not use open tugs without breeching! Even if your cart has a set of shaft stops they could easily float forward through the tugs and allow the cart to roll up on your horse.)

Leia


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## Shortpig (Feb 13, 2010)

I must say I am learning alot. Who knew I was still capable of learning at my age. Ariel will be so much happier driving thanks to you guys.


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## Kawgirl (Feb 13, 2010)

What is a false breeching?


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## Sue_C. (Feb 13, 2010)

Here are some pictures of one of my false breechings.

As you can see, it attatches to the cart...not the horse...just make sure you lift the horse's tail up over it after hitching it.



You also have to make sure the cart/horse/breeching all goes together properly. If the cart shafts are too low, so will be the breeching, so it might not be useable on all carts, with all horses, although if the cart fits the horse properly...it should. I have long since tacked/sewn that doubled portion down so a horse cannot get a leg caught in it if it should kick or buck. As for that...I am going to make a few kicking straps and start using them as well. I am getting to the age where I am either getting smarter, or more cautious...or both.


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## Little Bits (Feb 14, 2010)

I am a former standardbred trainer. Quick hitches are the best. There is no need for thimbles or tugs. However in harness racing there is a saftey strap that goes around the shaft of the cart and attaches to the hitch itself or a D ring. This stops the cart from flipping up and over in case of an emergency. They also have the shafts cut back to the hitch now. However hitching with straps I like the thimbles and the tugs.

Also the breaching in the picture I am not sure I like that attached to the cart. It looks more like a kicking strap. I think if you have your cruppers adjusted properly there would be know need to have a breaching strap. I think the less stuff one theses little guys the easier and free there movement is.

Just IMO


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## Shortpig (Feb 14, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> I love my sliding backband from Chimacum Tack and the open tugs that go with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Leia I checked out the harnesses at Chimacum and was a bit surprised to see that their saddle and tugs look like mine except for the tree. I've had my original harness for about 15yrs now. Maybe I need to get a picture of it and post it some how. It doesn't have wrap straps. On the old shafts on old cart I had two footman loops I was able to attach the breeching to the back footman loop and that worked great. Kept the cart from moving up on the horse.

Of course the shafts were also longer than what I have on my new cart.

My whole issue at this point is that the first time I hitched Ariel to the new cart. When I asked for the whoa the cart bumped her in the butt. She took a jump but one more whoa stopped her dead in her tracks. After that I bought a longer shaft. Those were too short for the horse they were A size Ariel is a Small B. I just want Vicky, Erin, and I to be able to drive without issue.

So far nothing has bothered Ariel, Motorcycles, Fire Trucks, Ambulances, dogs and large groups of people have no effect on her. She just trots along without a care in the world.

All help is certainly appreciated.


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## Sue_C. (Feb 14, 2010)

Little Bits said:


> Also the breaching in the picture I am not sure I like that attached to the cart. It looks more like a kicking strap. I think if you have your cruppers adjusted properly there would be know need to have a breaching strap. I think the less stuff one theses little guys the easier and free there movement is. Just IMO


No, it is NOTHING like a kicking strap. It doesn't go _on or over _the horse, but BEHIND it, where a proper breeching would go, there is no over strap. it is doing exactly as you want_..."the less stuff one theses little guys the easier and free there movement is."_

Besides, the crupper is not there to act as a brake, per se, I have seen cruppers go flying off several times, even though they were adjusted properly. Then too, not many horses will tolerate a crupper that is adjusted too tightly, and I would think there would be the issue of soring.

Here is a picture of one of my horses in another cart, but with the same set-up. You cannot even see the false breeching, but it is doing it's job.


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## Sue_C. (Feb 14, 2010)

Shorty...I think that what you need are called shaft stops. I just got a couple of sets, and will be putting them on my new carts this spring. They attatch to the shaft where the tug is, and the "knob" helps prevent the shaft from running through the tug.

I don't have a picture in my files, but here is a link that will show you what they are.

Tug Stop


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## Shortpig (Feb 14, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> Shorty...I think that what you need are called shaft stops. I just got a couple of sets, and will be putting them on my new carts this spring. They attatch to the shaft where the tug is, and the "knob" helps prevent the shaft from running through the tug.
> I don't have a picture in my files, but here is a link that will show you what they are.
> 
> Tug Stop



Can you put those on metal shafts? Will it weaken the shaft by putting screws into it?


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 14, 2010)

Shortpig said:


> Sue_C. said:
> 
> 
> > Shorty...I think that what you need are called shaft stops. I just got a couple of sets, and will be putting them on my new carts this spring. They attatch to the shaft where the tug is, and the "knob" helps prevent the shaft from running through the tug.
> ...


It would be easier to have someone who welds add a peg to your metal shafts in the appropriate location. All my high-end metal carts came with welded tug stops and I don't think the broad brass after-market tug stops I put on my Graber would have sat very well on the narrow shafts of a Frontier. I have however seen several Frontiers and CTM's modified by screwing in a small coat hook or other appropriately shaped and sized object from the hardware store and that worked well. I can get some pictures from my files if you want.

Leia


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## Shortpig (Feb 14, 2010)

It would be easier to have someone who welds add a peg to your metal shafts in the appropriate location. All my high-end metal carts came with welded tug stops and I don't think the broad brass after-market tug stops I put on my Graber would have sat very well on the narrow shafts of a Frontier. I have however seen several Frontiers and CTM's modified by screwing in a small coat hook or other appropriately shaped and sized object from the hardware store and that worked well. I can get some pictures from my files if you want.

Leia

Would love to see pictures.


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## RhineStone (Feb 14, 2010)

Little Bits said:


> I am a former standardbred trainer. Quick hitches are the best. There is no need for thimbles or tugs. However in harness racing there is a saftey strap that goes around the shaft of the cart and attaches to the hitch itself or a D ring. This stops the cart from flipping up and over in case of an emergency. They also have the shafts cut back to the hitch now. However hitching with straps I like the thimbles and the tugs.
> Also the breaching in the picture I am not sure I like that attached to the cart. It looks more like a kicking strap. I think if you have your cruppers adjusted properly there would be know need to have a breaching strap. I think the less stuff one theses little guys the easier and free there movement is.
> 
> Just IMO


As a carriage driver, I have to disagree. If the breeching hinders the movement of the horse, it is not adjusted correctly. Thousands of advanced-level driven dressage drivers wouldn't be without their breeching, so there is no way that correctly adjusted breeching and cruppers are going to create freedom issues for the horse. If that was the case, the driven dressage drivers would be the first to dump it. Granted, in the Jeff Morse webinar the other day, he showed a photo of an advanced-level horse doing dressage without breeching, but that four-wheeled vehicle also had mechanical brakes. I don't know of any four-wheeled single horse vehicles with brakes for minis. The reasoning given for the lack of breeching on that horse was the clean look. There needs to be some form of braking on every vehicle, and I would rather use a method that is comfortable for the horse.

Please also remember that quick hitches are perfectly acceptable for very lightweight vehicles on flat smooth surfaces, like a track. If you are going to be doing ANY driving on ANY other surface, i.e. hills, hard turns, fast stops like in obstacle driving and hazards, then breeching is the most logical and acceptable method of harnessing. Again, using the big beefy haunches for slowing and stopping the vehicle is the most comfortable instead of using the girth and withers of the horse. If you had a wheelbarrow strapped to your body and you couldn't use your hands, would you rather stop it by your armpits/chest or your butt? When you think about it this way, I can see how stopping a vehicle with the front portion of the horse's body would force more of the horse's weight on it's front legs in order to hold the vehicle back. Doesn't this contradict how we want a well-balanced horse to stop?

I bring this up not to create an argument, but to help any beginner drivers who may also be reading this thread.

Myrna


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