# Cantering while driving?...



## Celtic Hill Farm (Apr 12, 2009)

is it okay to have your horse canter while pulling a cart or waggon? My trainer always told me not to allow our horses to canter, but i remember reading some where that in CDEs you canter.


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## nootka (Apr 12, 2009)

yes!







Liz


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## Sue_C. (Apr 12, 2009)

I have read here that is good to teach the horse to canter...just so they don't panic if they do happen to break. Myself, I do not teach this to my horses, and never have...can't say I never will, but haven't felt the need for it so far.

As for CDEs, and cantering...I am not sure, but I don't _think_ cantering is allowed at the training level...anyone else know for sure...I don't have the rulebook.

I know several people who allow their horses and ponies to canter, and they have a hard time keeping the trot in the open driving and breed ring pleasure classes because theior horses prefer the canter. I have also seen more than one catch a hind leg over the traces, and shaves at the canter...I don't think of it as safe for someone who isn't a *very *experienced driver.


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Apr 12, 2009)

okay thanks, i was just wondering. But i could see what you are saying about the Trot thing. Because when we ride Saddleseat we don't allow the horses to Breake from the canter to the trot. Because we want the most extended trot we can get and we can't push them out more if they would break into the canter...sooo, i see where you coming from.


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## White Socks Miniature (Apr 12, 2009)

I have let my mare canter in the cart. I think it is good for them to know that they can and the cart isnt something spooky behind them! I did alot of ground training and in cart training though first and she obeyed hand and voice signals very well first. Like in riding or even working around horses, they must respect, listen and trust you before you throw something new at them, especially if they are green! Otherwise a bad experience can lead to issues in the future.


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## Miniv (Apr 13, 2009)

Just know that it is not allowed in driving classes at the registry sanctioned shows. We personally have never taught our driving horses about cantering in harness because of that. But we have also never done any CDE's.


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## susanne (Apr 13, 2009)

Heike Bean stresses the importance of teaching the driving horse to canter a) so he isn't frightened by the increased cart noise, b) so he doesn't think he's in trouble, and c) so he knows to slow back down on command.

With Mingus, we first had an absolute whoa and consistent up and down transitions from walk to trot and back to walk. We had already worked on various speeds of trot while on the longe line, so he was solid there. With canter, it was/is only allowed on my command. We then worked on slowing from canter to trot, then canter to walk.

This is somewhat like teaching a dog to speak so that you can then teach him not to bark -- it may sound a bit contradictory, but it works.

I've only taught one driving horse, but this has worked very well with Mingus. We'll see how Flash and Scarlet do when it's their turn...


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## Jill (Apr 13, 2009)

It partly depends on what you plan to do or plan to emulate.

However, I would NOT be doing it this early into your girl's training if I'm remembering the time frame correctly.


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## Keri (Apr 13, 2009)

As long as you teach her with cues, its fine. She has to know the cue you are giving in order to pick up the canter (not just canter becuase she doesn't want to extend her trot). You canter in chariot at shows.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Apr 13, 2009)

Just like anything else, the WAY you train your horse to do something can make all the difference in whether it's okay or not. An experienced driver purposefully asking a horse to canter for combined driving training, conditioning, or desensitization of a green horse is fine. Someone randomly clicking like a maniac until their strung-out horse finally breaks to canter with their nose stuck up in the air is probably going to establish bad habits and certainly won't get any gymnastic benefits at all from the exercise.

Once your horse knows she can canter in cart, there will always be that possibility in her mind. That's just a fact. It's good training to positively shape her inclinations and behaviors in the direction you want them to go rather than letting her do whatever occurs to her. That's your job as the driver.





If I were training a horse strictly for breed-show style driving I probably would not teach her to canter except for a brief experience up a hill or some such when she's first hitched just so she knows what it feels like. On the other hand, since we don't ride our minis I do want that horse cantering on the lunge line or in the round pen to improve their wind and strengthen different muscle groups. Since my horse in particular needs that with his weak hind end I've incorporated regular canter work in our driving sessions too and have dealt with the resultant attempts to break when he gets excited. It's just another controlled gait for us and I never _ever_ ask him to go to canter from an extended trot so I get after him big time if he breaks. He knows the difference!

Tired horses or ones in deep footing will try to break to a canter more often- it's an indication that their muscles are exhausted and they need a break. Be aware also that if you ask your equine to canter up a hill it's best if they have no check or a very loose check so they can get their heads down. Pulling up a hill is hard and they use their necks as a lever to help them. Cantering also requires the horse to round up and step under themselves so an overcheck especially can really interfer with that.



susanne said:


> This is somewhat like teaching a dog to speak so that you can then teach him not to bark -- it may sound a bit contradictory, but it works.


Hehe, exactly! You put a behavior on cue so if you haven't given the cue, the horse knows he was wrong to do it.

One way to make this easier is to use environmental signals to help. For instance never let the horse canter in an arena but do allow them to when trail driving. Kody rarely tried to break in classes until I started asking for a collected canter in arena work for advanced dressage purposes; until then it simply didn't occur to him to canter in a ring unless he was exhausted. I mentioned loosening the check above? Well, try teaching them that when the snug check is on it's time to work (trot only) but taking the check off means they can relax and have some fun. This works for a lot of people! You can use a kicking strap to prevent bucking when the check is off.

In your case Ian, I would definitely not worry about cantering Aura. She's too green and donkeys are a little different because of how they're built anyway. If she breaks to a canter sometime don't freak out or punish her, simply say "Ahht," bring her back down to a quiet trot and go on like it never happened. Other than that, I'd keep working on those walk-trot-whoa-stand-back basics and get her more used to driving in general.







Sue_C. said:


> As for CDEs, and cantering...I am not sure, but I don't _think_ cantering is allowed at the training level...anyone else know for sure...I don't have the rulebook.


That's correct, training level CDE horses do not canter except in cones (and even then it's only if they want to, and if the loophole in the rules that allowed that has not been closed since I last looked.



)



Sue_C. said:


> I have also seen more than one catch a hind leg over the traces, and shaves at the canter...I don't think of it as safe for someone who isn't a *very *experienced driver.


Now that's scary!




Sue, what kind of cart were these people using and what happened that they got a leg over the shaft?? I watch upper level CDE horses galloping and doing crazy sliding turns at full speed, etc., and have never seen one do that.



If they buck they can, sure, but I've never seen it when regularly cantering. And that is on vehicles with curved shafts and lowered singletrees, not horizontal draft and shafts that should be riding level up by the hip.





Leia


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## Sue_C. (Apr 13, 2009)

> Sue, what kind of cart were these people using and what happened that they got a leg over the shaft??


Both times it happened, the cart was an easy entry type, and the horses were racing a poles pattern. (Which, according to the AMHA rulebook is supposed to be performed at a trot anyways.) In both cases, there were spectators who jumped into the ring and helped stop and control the horse, and help the driver get the horses un-hitched. One of the two did suffer an injured stifle, and the other was only sore for a day or two.


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