# How many mini's per acre?



## horses4ever (Apr 16, 2016)

Hello, I am new here and wanted to find out what the general rule is for mini horse per acre for grazing purposes? I know with full size horses it's 1-2 horses per acre. I don't want a pasture to be over grazed so I am curious how many can go on say a 20 acre pasture?

Thanks!


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## chandab (Apr 17, 2016)

A bit will also depend on covenants or land use rules in your area, if there are any, so check into that for your county or city.

Will depend a bit on the size of the mini, but if you can graze 1-2 full-size horses per acre where you are, then you should be able to graze 3-8 minis depending on what size they are (more if you like the little A size minis, fewer if you like the B-size minis). [i like the B-size minis, so I typically figure about 3 minis per full-size horse.]


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## susanne (Apr 17, 2016)

Where you live is an important part of the answer, as some places have little grass and fragile ecosystems and can handle very few horses, whereas other places easily grow lush grass. It also depends on how much of their diet is from grazing and how much you intend to supplement with hay.


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## paintponylvr (Apr 17, 2016)

For us, we need several acres/per horse to totally graze/support our larger 40-45" shetlands in our area of NC. BUT we are on sand that doesn't grow good grass (well it does - but we are starting from scratch with the sand and weeds and 0$ in our current budget as we work on the house and everything else, too). So we are working on the outside perimeters of our paddocks getting developed into good grass growing areas that we can then work and turn out ponies on in the future. Taking time...












Our shetlands have quickly changed some grassy areas into dry lots and weeds and we will have to really work to build those spots back up! But they love rolling in those sandy hollows they've created to get their itchy spots...















I can't remember how much acreage that you need in our two counties (our new property is 21 acres w/ 14 in one county and 7 in the 2nd) for supporting horses. I haven't checked in a while - other than our neighborhood has no real covenants and is in the "country" off of a dirt road....We currently own 29 equine - 1 smaller Shetland is out on lease, 2 are larger Shetland Xs and 1 is a large pony size Arab... They are all in an area right now that is about 7 acres split into smaller paddocks and "pastures" set up with in the perimeter fenced area. We also have a 2nd fenced area with a shed behind our house and chicken area (later that will be for the goats, we think). We don't plan on clearing any more open areas for ponies, but just for trails to ride/drive on. We are getting ready to purchase equipment to put up temporary hot pens that we can move around to graze one or two ponies at a time for a few hours at a time in several different areas - rather than mowing them. We will need to make sure that we don't over graze those spots and one or two will eventually be permanently fenced... One will be behind his rig and the flag pole and the little pine will be just outside or just inside the fence and it will extend all the way up to the gate (over head above his red truck). It's maybe 1/4 to 1/2 acre? But the grass won't last long - if a pony left on it too long, it would become just sand...






*** added - talking about cost/budget - our lawn guy just brought in 3 large dump trk loads of crush & run and spread it out on the drive and in our parking area and under the 2 car part of our car port - to the tune of $1,500... Thought I was going to get chicken litter from some of the local chicken houses for no charge but with the delivery and spreading charges they are FAR from no charge. Ah the fun of land/home/animal ownership!

Our ponies get round bales of local coastal bermuda hay - fed in the pastures free choice, feed and alfalfa pellets. ***


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## horses4ever (Apr 17, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the replies it is greatly appreciated. We have a place for lease that has approx 25-30 acres of grassy Bermuda grass with sandy loam soil. We raise Quarter Horses and I know nothing about minis. Someone is looking to lease our place and put 100 minis on it. We have several pastures and about 15 pens/stalls. We don't have any restrictions in this county but as a landlord I need to know what the limit would be in order to not have our pastures over grazed. The most we have had at one time on the acreage is 30 Quarter horses but we also supplement with alfalfa and coastal so the pastures were never grazed down. I would be almost certain she would need to supplement, right? 100 minis sounds like a lot to me.


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## Specialk (Apr 17, 2016)

Who is vaccinating, worming, and trimming the hooves for these 100 minis? That's 400 hooves to trim. I would insist they show documentation of worming if they are going to be on your pasture and vaccinating if you have any horses near by.


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## chandab (Apr 17, 2016)

horses4ever said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies it is greatly appreciated. We have a place for lease that has approx 25-30 acres of grassy Bermuda grass with sandy loam soil. We raise Quarter Horses and I know nothing about minis. Someone is looking to lease our place and put 100 minis on it. We have several pastures and about 15 pens/stalls. We don't have any restrictions in this county but as a landlord I need to know what the limit would be in order to not have our pastures over grazed. The most we have had at one time on the acreage is 30 Quarter horses but we also supplement with alfalfa and coastal so the pastures were never grazed down. I would be almost certain she would need to supplement, right? 100 minis sounds like a lot to me.


Managed right, it could probably be done; but like you, as a landlord I'd be worried with that many animals. [i'd be worried about care and upkeep with only 20 animals.] We had renters with only a handful of horses and a handful of dogs, they were lazy and didn't put half the care or upkeep into things that you would hope/expect them to; they were asked to leave.

If you go for it, get a huge security/damage deposit, and I do mean huge.


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## horses4ever (Apr 18, 2016)

Special K and chandab, thank you for the feedback. We will not have any of our horses on the same property but I couldn't imagine caring for 400 feet either or deworming. We don't over do it on vaccinations but if they do vaccinate a lot I don't understand how they could manage that many without ranch help. I know minis and shetlands have more feet problems than larger horses so how often do you trim feet that are on sandy loam soil?

As far as the security deposit it is huge because the last renters did a lot of damage/mess which cost even more than they had put down. We live about 2 miles from this property so whoever rents will be checked on monthly. We let the other renters get away with us not coming over because they always paid on time and we checked on them the first few months and things looked great...it didn't last. Renters are mostly a PITA! but this is an investment property and we also don't want it sitting vacant either. Thanks for all the comments as they help us with our decision.


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## paintponylvr (Apr 18, 2016)

There are several farms you could contact that run large numbers of mini horses. You might even mention what state you are in, so that maybe a couple of farms/mini horse ranches could be recommended for contacting to get advice.

With ours - with hooves, I have them on approximately an 8 week rotation - but it really varies. I make notes (used to be on paper - which WAS more reliable. Really sucks when you make a lot of notes on your phone and if you forget to hit save or you drop it while moving to correct the pony you are also holding - everything disappears. Not like some computer programs that auto save or that ask you if you want to save or that will pop up with a "recovered" document and ask if you want it or trash it). That said - i have had ponies that have had problems and were trimmed a 2nd time just a short two weeks later and over the winter a couple of times when first me and then my farrier were really ill and we swapped out appointments and one group didn't see the farrier for a full 12 - 16 weeks (3 - 4 months). None of these ponies were in work at the time and none died or were adversely affected at the time. I've done as few as 2 (which was where we were when the call came in that our daughter had had a vehicular accident) and as many as 9 at one time. AND I have 2 mares that haven't seen a farrier since 2012. The one is a "wild" one that came to me from the mid-west. We can work with her all we want (it's difficult and we work carefully so as not to be bit or struck) - she's not a pleasant girl when it comes to hoof handling and my farrier started to do her 1 time and said "NO". Pretty much the same for the 2nd mare. She gets more and more uptight while being worked on until like a bomb she explodes. God forbid you are in the path of one of those fast flying hooves! Farrier DID trim her for a couple of years (Aug 2010 thru Feb 2012). For the most part their hooves break off quite nicely - all on their own! They do go thru some weird growth spurts now and again, but then they break up, wear them down pretty again and start growing right back out. Tranquilizer darts seem to be frowned on here in NC by all vets (2 were quite horrified when I asked about them)...

As to vet care - that's between you and your renter and the various vets dealing with the horses. Some states supposedly require a yearly coggins. Some states require that you have a coggins if you move a horse on a road 2 miles from one pasture to another. Some don't seem to give a rip... Since 1997, every horse on our property from weaning age up has had a coggins test and a rabies vaccination EXCEPT for the past year (2015). In 2014, right as we were preparing to move - I had 11 out of 15 ponies have BAD reactions to Rabies vaccinations given at the same time as the coggins were drawn. I was working full time, hubby was working full time, the adult daughter that had moved back into our home was working full time AND we were trying to pack and be out of our property in less than 30 days... It was a nightmare. Neck and chest abscesses needed packing, antibiotics cost a fortune and weren't fun to do 2x dailey and I was the only one that seemed able to give those. 4 friends, none of whom lived close by, stepped in to help w/ the hot packing during the day - some of our hard to catch ponies didn't move for over a week as they all were pretty darn sick and sore. Hay/feed and buckets of water were literally carried to them as needed when they absolutely wouldn't move (daily movement was forcefully encouraged). Needless to say, in 2015 after the ponies 2nd move (they were in temp quarters from mid-Nov thru Jan 9th) when they all started coming due again - I was more than a little gun shy!!! Not all of them got coggins in 2015 and many didn't get Rabies vax for the 1st time... The protocol I'm following now - every baby gets a RV when old enough and then annually until their 4th year. This is a decision on my part - my vet isn't completely agreeing with my decision. When a purchaser takes on the new pony, if they need any extra vax - my vet or any of their choosing will be happy to update the ponies when they are ready to leave our property - at the new owners cost.

You, your renter and the vet(s) will need to agree on what is absolutely necessary for the herd on your property and what doesn't need to be maintained. I don't do flu/rhino vax on ours anymore. Too many vets have told me that for them to be effective they need to be given every 90 days. Sorry - that is just too much "pokin' & proddin'" in my opinion. And too many $$ - especially on horses that aren't going anywhere. You will all need to agree (BEFORE the horses move onto the property) on when those vax would be necessary. I don't do my whole herd at the same time. Even getting the vaccinations myself and giving them - that is cost prohibitive for our now 29 head. Like with our farrier work, I give them in rotation and it is tracked. The 3 ponies/1 mini that went out for showing in 2012 and 2013 were the only ones to get rhino/flu and the necessary boosters every 90 days or when THAT trainer's vet said it was due. I had one that got PHF (& boosters) and 3 others in 2 other states that didn't. None of them got EPM. I think 2 got botulism vax, the others didn't (& mine at home never have). I don't know if or who got Strangles vax - again - that is one I don't do here. I've never had to worry about Rotovirus - but know of other breeding farms in our area that do.

Older horses don't metabolize vaccines very well... Some older horses may be doing great for their age(s), but trust me, some may look like "cr..p"... When I was in an area that had 9 acres, I had neighbors all around. I had many think that we were being cruel or that a couple were starving - but we were working with our vet and we did, several times, have to change/update our feeding programs to maintain health/vitality and weight. And we had a couple of our oldsters die naturally and several that were euthanized. I have another group of oldsters coming on...

I do rotational worming and this is one that I do everyone at the same time (right now). However, there are many vets in NC that believe that we have resistance building to almost all worming protocol drugs now - they are starting to really push checking each pony several times a year and then worm based on those fecal findings. SO not all horses would come close to being done the same. One of the things on my list is to get a microscope and start checking myself (actually did this years ago as a pre-teen/teen)... It's ... on the list...

Include in your clause/contract some of the unpleasantness. Where/how is manure going to be handled? What do you want done if one dies? Does the body go for a necropsy or does it get taken away? Does that renter bury it and if so, where on the property? Is the grave going to be dug by hand or by a machine, again by the renter or by a company that you may or may not have/want to approve? Where will hay/feed be stored? Who is allowed on the property? Is this a business w/ families/kids around or are they literally running a 100 horses in pasture set ups?

Do you have an area designated for the trailer (s)? What about other equipment?

I think I touched on a lot??


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## Miniv (Apr 19, 2016)

I agree that it's a lot of minis.....We have 30 irrigated acres which is cross fenced so we can move the horses back and forth

to allow the grass to grow. We also have approx. 10 acres that is cross fenced into approx. 7 smaller fields/paddocks. Some have grass and some are dry lot........depending on the needs of the horses.

Some minis and ponies are sensitive to too much rich pasture, so it's nice to have space for those.

My other concerns include basic care for all those horses.....Is there easy access to water? Is there any shelter from the elements (ie, trees or run-in sheds)? Will the owners provide Salt Blocks? Will the owners check on them daily? (Which they should....preferably twice daily.) I hope they aren't planning on running stallions mixed with mares........They will need their hooves trimmed and be wormed regularly. How is the fencing and who is responsible for any damage to it? Who is responsible for any injuries (which you can COUNT on happening eventually.) ?

Lots of stuff to think on and should probably be included in a land lease agreement......

Oh.....and my opinion regarding how many horses? On average about 4 to 6 per acre......So much depends on the need of the horse!


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## Miniv (Apr 19, 2016)

Oh! And forgot to ask......What about dragging/maintaining the pasture? With that many, the field will need dragging more than once a growing season.


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## bevann (Apr 19, 2016)

IMO you might be better off renting to someone with animals that don't require as much daily care as horses.Maybe goats or cattle of some kind.I would be concerned about the level of care these Minis will be getting.As said previously said get a VERY LARGE security deposit and write a very good contract covering yourself.Don't worry about them. In this state if there is a dispute the tenant has all the rights-the landlord is screwed big time.good luck-hope you can work something out to benefit you


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## amysue (Apr 19, 2016)

You have gotten some great advice here already. As for the horse per acre ratio, the climate, soil and grass type are a huge factor as is the number/concentration of animals. 100 head seems like a lot, even on 30 acres. I have 80+ acres and even with rotating pastures, my herd of 30 will trash the place quickly if not rotated often enough. If you are worried about them over grazing/converting it to dry lot, I would insist they rotate pastures and fence the land off accordingly to allow rotation and maybe seperate the herd into smaller groups to prevent trampling the ground into mud. I would draft a contract that stipulates that the renters are responsible for maintaining the land, fence and structures and I would also add a section requiring them to keep up on the animal's care/maintenance so that the herd does not get out of hand, the contract should state that they (not you) are responsible for abiding by all laws and regulations regarding horse care in your area (ie. Coggins, Rabies healt charts. If you keep the contract written so that it is simply renting the land, you do not have to take the responsibility/liability for the animals. I would also include a clause giving you right of lien in the case of default on payment. If they get behind on rent and refuse to make it right, you can sell (without legal action) the herd to recover the money you are owed. Also include a clause for damages, as others suggested, get a security deposit and make sure the contract stipulates that you can use the deposit not only to fix/ repair any damage but also to re seed pastures and maintain any areas on the property that suffered wear and tear that they let go to maintain your property's functionality and protect your investment. You should also include a clause that allows you to terminate the contract and evict them at any time for any/no reason in case you sell the property and buyer doesnt want tenants or in case they're sucky tenants and trash the place. I do not know what the laws in your area say, but most states do not have many equine contract laws so your contract must be well drafted, not too vague but not so detailed that neither party can meet the obligations. You may want to consult an attorney if you do rent them the land, as I am not sure if the laws regarding real estate and tenants would apply since it's not so much a horse boarding contract, but a land lease. I know in some cases that can change a lot. For example, a friend of mine in NY boards horses and there are state regs regarding basic care and vetting requirements but, if she rents her entire shed row and paddock to a tenant, different laws come into play as she isn't boarding the horse, she's renting the space and the state laws allow things such as sub letting and require her to maintain/fix things as the land lord where if just boarding a horse in her barn, there are no laws requiring her to keep place maintained, keep lights on, water running as long as basic care (feed water) are met. You can never be to careful.

Anyway...to try to answer your original question. ..I think 100 on 30 acres may be pushing it without supplementing feed and rotating pasture.


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## horses4ever (Apr 19, 2016)

I seriously appreciate all the responses as I can't wrap my head around 100 horses. We raise Quarter horses with a small breeding program with a total at one time, around 35 but we also have a ranch hand that helps immensely. These folks have also shown interest in buying our place and if that is the case then it won't be a concern what happens to the property but I'd hope it would be kept up with because we have put so much time there in the last 12 years. It has a good sized house that was completely redone on the inside and all the horse facilities are kept clean and neat.


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## attwoode (Apr 19, 2016)

You'd want to know your grass production for your site ( witch also depends on how you manage it), how long you plan them to be out on pasture each day and which season (s). You' d be best to manage your grass for maximum soil health and stand productivity and rest the field as needed rather than just use the grass as horses need. Pasture will go downhill if grass doesn't come first. All that said, if your mini weighs 300 lbs and needs 3% of its weight in dry matter each day and your pasture can produce 2,000 lbs of dry matter (more or less dried hay) each year, then you'd need roughly 2 acres per mini of properly managed pasture for year-round grazing. If you can get more production by amending soil or plantings or have a naturally more productive site, you and go from there. Keep in mind that some climates won't produce grass forage year round and continuing grazing thru all seasons will not be good for the land. You will likely need to supplement hay seasonally through dry, hot, and winter months. Also if you calculate how much hay you have each year to feed you can subtract that from the amount pasture you need. You can get close with a little math but know that it's just a guess and conditions and forage can be unpredictable. Because of this you can estimate but you will likely need to observe and adjust based on what you are seeing either way and have dry lot and hay on hand when needed.


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## horses4ever (Apr 20, 2016)

Many have asked where we are located and it is in East Texas(about 60 miles east of Dallas) where we get very lush,plentiful grass unless it happens to be a drought year. We are sticklers with our herd of QH's and they are supplemented with alfalfa and coastal/bermuda hay. It is spring right now and the middle aged horses are turned out on pasture with little supplement as we have been VERY wet here since Dec so the grass is out of control, which the horses are pleased as punch about it.


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## paintponylvr (Apr 20, 2016)

I picked up a rental car in Ft Worth/Dallas about 3 weeks ago and on the driving I did from there down to Temple, I drooled over all the good grass!! I SSSOOOO wanted to bring some of that grass back home with me!!

Can you imagine - stuffing an airplane with .... GRASS? (not the "Mary Ji Juana" kind)

Even a shipment of hay from those areas right now would be awesome (not gonna happen, LOL).


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## paintponylvr (Apr 21, 2016)

There is also a huge difference in 28-30" minis vs our 38-46" shetlands as far as wrapping your mind around caring for that many horses...


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## horses4ever (Apr 21, 2016)

Paintponylvr, yes our area is VERY green, especially this time of year and East Texas is even fuller than what you saw going down to Temple!

BTW, we have not heard back from the couple that wanted to lease to own so I may not even have to worry about it but we'd sure like it to get rented or sold. Send anyone our way...but not with 100 minis or more! LOL


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