# Palpating the Pregnant Mare?



## Tremor (Dec 22, 2010)

Ok, so we have a pregnant mare (220 days!) and she's never been scanned for a pregnancy in all of her past pregnancies (5 pregnancies from, 2006-2010). She is a great momma and foals easily. As horse owners, my family is getting more on track with what we're supposed to do. So, I would like to get her scanned in January when we get her teeth done.

The pregnancy calculator said that it would be her 34 week palpation?

What should I expect to happen?

External or rectal?

What will I see? Or hear?

What will my vet do?

How much does it cost you?

I've never done this, and I'm trying to persuade my parents to let me to get it done; since it is our last foal. And, I'm hoping they'll let me if I pay for it!

If anybody has any pictures of their past foals from a scan would you care to post them?

Thanks!

Julia


----------



## Miniv (Dec 22, 2010)

Are you planning a physical palpation or an ultra sound? Depending on the vet, they can run in the $40 range. I prefer the ultra sound as it's the least invasive. The external ultra sound I've had no use for. The results have been much less conclusive than the other two.

An internal ultra sound means the vet will clean your mare's rectal area before going in. Once the vet goes in, he/she should show you on the small monitor he/she has set up, what you are viewing. Some vets also have a printer attached and will print up a black and white picture of the fetus.


----------



## Tremor (Dec 22, 2010)

Miniv said:


> Are you planning a physical palpation or an ultra sound? Depending on the vet, they can run in the $40 range. I prefer the ultra sound as it's the least invasive. The external ultra sound I've had no use for. The results have been much less conclusive than the other two.
> 
> An internal ultra sound means the vet will clean your mare's rectal area before going in. Once the vet goes in, he/she should show you on the small monitor he/she has set up, what you are viewing. Some vets also have a printer attached and will print up a black and white picture of the fetus.


See, that's where I get confused.

I have no clue what the difference is between a palpation and an ultrasound!

I would guess an ultrasound, by your definition.


----------



## Matt73 (Dec 22, 2010)

You should be able to feel the foal moving very easily at this point. If you lay your palm just in front of her udder and wait (or not), you should feel either kicking and/or movement.


----------



## Tremor (Dec 22, 2010)

Matt73 said:


> You should be able to feel the foal moving very easily at this point. If you lay your palm just in front of her udder and wait (or not), you should feel either kicking and/or movement.


Yep, I can feel the baby moving around. Its great!






So, is a palpation something where they feel for the baby, and an ultrasound a visual look at it?


----------



## MountainMeadows (Dec 22, 2010)

I would not bother with a rectal ultrasound to be honest -- for one thing it is invasive and there is always the possibility of an accident - why create a problem, when none exists now?

Second, at this late stage of the pregnancy you won't be able to see much with a rectal ultrasound - if you are lucky you might get a leg to move and be able to pick that up -- but in reality the pregnancy is too large for the ultrasound to see it well. If your vet has an external ultrasound, you might be able to see more -- but it is not like what you are expecting to see like in a human baby - very little of the horse will actually be visible unless your vet has some extremely expensive ultrasound equipment - and if he did, it would be in his clinic not in a truck rumbling around on farm calls.

In my area an ultrasound will cost approx $80 + cost of sedating the mare ( I won't ultrasound unless she is sedated) + cost of farm call which is $85 -- so easily $200.

I would go with the WeeFoal urine test and save your money for an IGG test for the newborn foal to make sure that the immunities have transferred properly.

I am not meaning to sound "preachy", but only practical and am concerned about the well-being of the mare and unborn foal.

Good luck with the pregnancy - keep us all posted.

Stacy


----------



## Tremor (Dec 22, 2010)

MountainMeadows said:


> I would not bother with a rectal ultrasound to be honest -- for one thing it is invasive and there is always the possibility of an accident - why create a problem, when none exists now?
> 
> Second, at this late stage of the pregnancy you won't be able to see much with a rectal ultrasound - if you are lucky you might get a leg to move and be able to pick that up -- but in reality the pregnancy is too large for the ultrasound to see it well. If your vet has an external ultrasound, you might be able to see more -- but it is not like what you are expecting to see like in a human baby - very little of the horse will actually be visible unless your vet has some extremely expensive ultrasound equipment - and if he did, it would be in his clinic not in a truck rumbling around on farm calls.
> 
> ...


Makes sense. I too am concerned about her well being, but I already know when she's due (April 30th, with 349 days). I will save for an IGG.



(My vet didn't even mention that when she looked over our last foal! Kinda makes me wonder!)

I will keep you posted!

And thanks for the luck! Hopefully we won't need it!


----------



## Matt73 (Dec 22, 2010)

I'm a little confused. If you can feel the foal moving around etc., why are you getting an ultrasound?


----------



## REO (Dec 22, 2010)

That was my thought too Matt. Ultasounds etc are only if you need to know IF they are bred. Those forms of checking (internally) are unnesessarily invasvive if not needed to find out. If you know she's bred, why do it?

Just asking!



New babies are so exciting!


----------



## LittleRibbie (Dec 22, 2010)

I too am a newbie Julia so I was very interrested in your post/questions. I did both wee foal tests with both showing postive






and for me thats good enough. Getting an ultra sound would for me, mean taking my horses to vet ( IMO stressful for them ) in Ocala/Tampa and frankly I dont want any foriegn objects in or around my horses "behinds"...too invasive.. unless its absolutely necessary.....I guess I worry about infections but thats just me.

Also AND THIS IS BEING ASKED BY A NEWBIE but IMO having teeth floated would also be stressful...IM NOT ATTEMPTING TO FLAME...but wouldnt it be better to wait and have that done after foaling too. One of my preggos has me walking on eggshells B/C I dont know her foaling history, only that she has had 4....Im just praying that all goes according to the book.

Good luck with foaling and keep us posted

Heidi


----------



## Matt73 (Dec 22, 2010)

LittleRibbie said:


> I too am a newbie Julia so I was very interrested in your post/questions. I did both wee foal tests with both showing postive
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Heidi, I was going to mention the floating, too. Many horses need to be sedated to float their teeth. A float should be done before the mare is in foal.


----------



## LittleRibbie (Dec 22, 2010)

Thats what I thought, thanks Matt


----------



## weerunner (Dec 22, 2010)

My vet won't float teeth without a sedative and he will not sedate pregnant mares. So I used to make sure I got it done between pregnancies. Now I have my own speculum and floats, so I can do their teeth whenever I want to without sedation. They are fine with it and I can keep their teeth in much better condition than I did when the vet came once a year. I'd suggest waiting on the teeth floating if he's going to sedate.


----------



## Miniv (Dec 22, 2010)

Well, since you already KNOW she's pregnant....a palpation is definitely not necessary. And an Ultra Sound may not be either..... Ultra- Sounds are most helpful in establishing with telling you how far along the pregnancy is.

If you have an idea of when the breeding happened and can feel the foal movement, you probably don't need any invasive procedure......Just start feeding her extras in her last tri-mester......and have all the things ready for a new foal, and you'll be as prepared as you can be.


----------



## Tremor (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks guys.

I thought that scans were something that were done routinely through out a mare's pregnancy.

And some people mentioned floating, I don't know what my vet does exactly for teeth (sedating, I mean), but I know that my mare needs her's done BAD! She's skinny (I changed her diet



), and she's dropping grain like crazy. We didn't realize this until recetly, and I don't think that she can wait until May to have her teeth done.


----------



## Matt73 (Dec 23, 2010)

No, they don't ultrasound the mare for the same reason as humans (to find out how far along, sex, just that everything looks good, etc.). Two main reasons people ultrasound mares is A. to find out _if_ she's pregnant and/or B. to see if she's carrying twins (can be somewhat common in some Thoroughbreds and some other breeds), in which case the pregnancy will be terminated or one fetus will be "pinched off".

If your mare's teeth need done that badly, then they need to be done.

I really think that you should be much more experienced before breeding. I've gone to your website and see that you've created a few dwarves from a dwarf mare. I think that anyone that breeds (let alone just looks after horses) should have, at least, some practical experience and should have gained lots of information through talking to experts and reading tons of books. I know that you're, now, making up for it but in the meantime your mare has paid the price. Sorry to be harsh, I just want other "newbies" that are thinking of breeding to read this and educate themselves _before_ they breed (or even get a horse, for that matter).


----------



## ohmt (Dec 23, 2010)

I believe this young lady is at the mercy of her parents when it comes to breeding.

Thank you for being brave and coming on here to ask questions-sometimes the responses are a bit intimidating. I applaud you for taking the initiative to learn! If you haven't already, try adding some veggie oil to your mares feed and beet pulp too until she gets her teeth done, both will help with her weight tremendously.


----------



## Tremor (Dec 23, 2010)

Thank you guys.

I am at the mercy of my parents, who think that it is okay to just keep breeding the horses. My father has even suggested to me that we keep breeding our dwarf mare. Of course , mother and I totally flipped out. It doesn't help the fact that I have until April to get the stallion into a new home, and my parents refuse to geld him.





We are getting out of breeding, and this foal will be our last. Hence, why I am trying to figure out what is "right" for a mare owner to do. I have matured a lot over the years with having these horses, and I have come to realize what a good breeding pair is, and that honestly, I want out of breeding. I am ready for this foal to be our last.

After this spring, I have no plans with my horses but to have fun with them, teach my mare how to drive and her 2010 gelding colt when he's of age. I am going to show the 2010 gelding colt next year in halter, and in the future driving. I am hoping for his dam to foal a near twin to him so I can have a driving team. As for the dwarves, they are content where they are and I already have a plan for the 2010 dwarf filly to be out and about in the community to help her become a therapy horse. We have had nothing but praise when we've brought her out.

If I were able to go back in time I would have tried to prevent my dwarf mare's breedings, but I would like to say that they are little angels and have already changed so many people's lives (not including my own).

I have already been looking into beet pulp and oils for my horses.


----------



## Matt73 (Dec 23, 2010)

ohmt said:


> I believe this young lady is at the mercy of her parents when it comes to breeding.
> 
> Thank you for being brave and coming on here to ask questions-sometimes the responses are a bit intimidating. I applaud you for taking the initiative to learn! If you haven't already, try adding some veggie oil to your mares feed and beet pulp too until she gets her teeth done, both will help with her weight tremendously.



Ooohhh. Sorry, then.


----------



## tagalong (Dec 23, 2010)

> I already know when she's due (April 30th, with 349 days).


But she may also foal much earlier - I would not rely on a "due date" based on 349 days.

We start watching the mares closely for any changes at 300 days... and have had healthy full term foals arrive even at 296 days.


----------



## Tremor (Dec 23, 2010)

tagalong said:


> But she may also foal much earlier - I would not rely on a "due date" based on 349 days.
> 
> We start watching the mares closely for any changes at 300 days... and have had healthy full term foals arrive even at 296 days.


Thank you for posting.

My mare has been bred during the same week in May, and has routinely foaled the last week of April. And, I took the 349 from her last foal. I wouldn't doubt if she did foal earlier, but I will be having a VERY close eye on her once March/April hits!


----------

