# my rotweiller killed a deer



## pooper scooper (Oct 24, 2007)

[SIZE=12pt]I am so upset. My rottie chased down a deer and killed it last night. I heard the ruckus just at dark and went to investigate. I had seen two deer cutting through the pasture earlier. Titan is 2years old and I have had him a year. He has been good and loves the horses especialy the babies but now I am afraid he will attack one. He had killed some cats already. OK. My question is should I try to find him a new home or is he too dangerous now? I have him locked in the garage now and only let him out when all my minis are in the barn. I don't know what to do. HELP!




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## Katiean (Oct 24, 2007)

I think he might do well in an ONLY pet home. I would try to re-home him.


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## Jill (Oct 24, 2007)

I've never had experience w/ dogs killing other animals except my big dogs (collie and a lab cross) once killed a wild rabbit. But, I would really e concerned about Titan being around horses (which to a dog, may not be that different than a deer?).

I'm sorry you're having this kind of thing to worry about this kind of thing. I'm sure it's very upsetting. Much as I love my horses, I love my dogs even more.


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## mininik (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm impressed. Taking down a deer alone wasn't easy. Being animal aggressive does not necessarily mean he is or might become human aggressive, but I would have him evaluated by a professional behavioralist before deciding to keep him or place him in another home. Due to his high prey drive, I would certainly never leave him with children unattended. There's no way he should be allowed near the horses. He should also be given some healthy activities to help him expell his extra energy EVERY DAY. Enrolling him in an obedience class would be an excellent investment should you decide to keep him after his evaluation.


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## MiniHoofBeats (Oct 24, 2007)

Nicole is right, having him assessed by a behavioralist would be great but my honest opinion in this case would be to have him assessed, and then place him in a PET ONLY home...with NO CATS. Make that a point because I would just about die if I adopted a dog, brought it home, and it killed my beloved cats.


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## Minimor (Oct 24, 2007)

I don't know why so many people don't realize that a cat-killing dog is likely to progress to larger "prey". So many apparently believe that killing cats is an okay thing? Here any dog that killed a cat would get no second chance.

If you do rehome him make sure that it is to a home with no other pets, and make sure the new owner knows about the cat killing tendencies. Even if they don't have a cat themselves it would be a shame if the dog killed a neighbor's cat because the new owner was unaware of that tendency.

Here there is a specific law against a dog chasing, harassing or killing deer; if a wildlife/conservation officer sees a dog running deer he is authorized to shoot the dog on the spot, and yes, they actually do shoot dogs in this situation. If the dog's owner is found there is a hefty fine for allowing a dog to chase/harass/kill deer.


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## Jenn (Oct 24, 2007)

What a resourceful dog! Was he hungry, or just bored?

In any case, I wouldn't be letting him around your minis. He might be okay, but chances are if one of them runs, he'll get excited and go after it.

I wish I had a dog who would "discourage" cats ... we've got a bunch of wild ones hanging around here that we'd rather not have.


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## Katiean (Oct 24, 2007)

My brother adopted a dalmation (sp?). He seemed to be a sweet dog. He had him about 3 days when he (my brother) was sitting in a chair and the dog had his front feet up on the chair getting petted. All of a sudden you could see the look on the dogs face change. He realized his head was higher than my brothers. The dog went into attack mode. My brother being a big guy was able to get the dog off of him and down to the ground. We then took a knee high nylon and made a muzzle for the dog so we could get him into the car. We got him down to the pound and the worker was shocked as she had worked with the dog. She took him and put him in a kennel and he then tried to attack her. The next day when he had to be put down for being agrissive to people, he once again tried to attack the worker. They don't know what set him off. But, he was not a nice boy. I would not have been worried in your case if it was only a rabbit or bird that your dog killed. But, a deer, he has a real hunter instinct. I would, as I said before place him in a home where he is the only animal. even if he were evaluated by a profesional they may not be right as in my brothers dogs case. I would warn the people taking the dog that he does not get along with other animals or children.


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## CZP1 (Oct 24, 2007)

I think you should truly consider if you "re-home" him. If he attacked a cat or something while on a walk or even a child.

We had a dalmation had obedience, agility and had other "outlets" for play. He went after one of my nephews (who was just standing not teasing or anyway influencing the dog) and went right for the throat. Dad said to NEVER bring the dog around. Scared the bejeebers out of me, he was 8 months then. A red light should have gone on, but didn't

So back to the obedience class we were doing good and then one day (about 1 year old), he went after another dog and a professional handler. We tried everything from resocializing etc. for about 6 months. After much discussion with my vet, behaviorist, and a very well known vet school, we made the decision to put him down. There were many things that went through our minds as to what else we could have done. I really couldn't think of if he had seriously bit or mauled someone how bad I would feel. He was two years old and we had him since he was 6 weeks old.

The vet thinks that he was "imbred" (though from a reputable breeder) when I called the breeder and told her, she offered me another puppy - I think not.

Good luck with your decision, I know it is not easy.


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## Floridachick (Oct 24, 2007)

Hands down this dog should be put to sleep. He has a high prey drive and is unsafe to be around other animals and small children. You may also want to delete the postings depends on where you live but dogs killing deer the owner can be fined. I am sorry its happened but if you KNEW he killed cats why allow the dog loose???


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## mininik (Oct 24, 2007)

There is so much misinformation and fear out there about dogs. I still stand by my opinion that this dog should be evaluated by a professional behavioralist before being kept, rehomed or put down. Below is an interesting link which you all should read, especially those who gave anecdotal responses indicating that their dogs "just attacked" people.

http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0182.htm


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## HGFarm (Oct 24, 2007)

The cats that were killed should have been the first clue that something was not right. NO DOG should be allowed to kill anything- period. Not even 'chase' them in 'fun'. This is how it all starts. You are right- he will probably go after the horses next, as he has already moved on to bigger animals. Dogs are predators and once they start this, they will NOT stop.

This is a dangerous dog and should be put down IMMEDIATELY. Is another home going to be able to keep him from killing other animals and are they going to want the responsibility?! That is passing the problem off to someone else. What is to guarantee that the dog does not get out of their yard or whatever and go at it again. It becomes a fun game with them and they like the taste- it's exciting to them.

I wont tell you what has happened to dogs in the past we have found attacking livestock, but they were NOT rehomed to move the problem somewhere else and risk either having other animals or someone's CHILD hurt!!

If you do not have the heart to have him put down, then I would submit him to the nearest animal shelter and tell them that he is killing cats, deer, etc... My neighbors had a large dog that was allowed to do this sort of thing as they lived at the edge of town with a few acres and thought it was ok for him to do that - and he did end up biting several people and then DID bring down a caretaker's five year old child that lived on the property!!!! The child's father happened to be home- thank heavens and the dog was killed on the spot, in the act.

Just edited to note- I do NOT understand why any dog owner thinks it's ok for a dog to kill ANYthing- whether it is a bird, cat, rabbit.... they get the taste of blood, and think that it's ok to kill things and dogs dont know where to draw the line- period. They dont know it's ok to kill the chicken or kitty, but then not ok to kill the pony or neighbor's calf!!! And I can't tell you how many people I know or have heard of that think 'Isn't that cute- the dog just loves to 'play' with the horses (or goats, or....)". This is the first stage of 'stalking' and going after other animals and should NEVER be allowed.

This is a VERY serious situation that needs to be taken care of right away!!


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## seahorse (Oct 24, 2007)

Unfortunately, when we moved to the country, we were having trouble with our big dog showing interest in our small animals. :no: He has NOT ever eaten one of our animals though. (though he has shown quite an interest in my sisters rabbit) He no longer chases or even looks at our cats and is quickly losing interest in the baby chicks and small goats. We are teaching him that theses are our animals, he is not to even look at them! and its working! He has eaten the field mice, grasshoppers, and pond frogs. He now knows the difference between "our" animals and grasshoppers!



We are so glad because at first we thought we might have to get rid of him. I would be very concerned about a dog that took down a deer, especially with his cat-eating history and with all those little foals around. We have a friend who had his great dane put down because of him eating a neighbors expensive prize winning pig. He could not afford for it to happen again.


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## runamuk (Oct 24, 2007)

pooper scooper said:


> [SIZE=12pt]I am so upset. My rottie chased down a deer and killed it last night. I heard the ruckus just at dark and went to investigate. I had seen two deer cutting through the pasture earlier. Titan is 2years old and I have had him a year. He has been good and loves the horses especialy the babies but now I am afraid he will attack one. He had killed some cats already. OK. My question is should I try to find him a new home or is he too dangerous now? I have him locked in the garage now and only let him out when all my minis are in the barn. I don't know what to do. HELP!
> 
> 
> 
> [/SIZE]


You might want to check your state statutes. In some states there are regulations with regard to how these dogs are handled. As for him confusing the horses with deer, from what you described he was acting much like an LGD will and saw the deer as a threat to his property. This is a very fine line where people with guardian, working, hunting breeds have to be careful. Rottweillers were historically guardians and herding dogs so I don't see the behavior as out of line BUT federal and state laws do not care if the dog was doing his job, without a deer tag you are poaching.


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## mininik (Oct 24, 2007)

I do not think it's okay for a dog to kill anything, but I also don't think it's okay to kill a dog because it has been allowed to act upon it's natural predatory instinct. Just because a dog has killed does not mean it is blood thirsty. Let's keep in mind that many people feed their dogs raw animals (in parts or in whole) as their primary diet. Before there was bagged and canned dog food, many dogs hunted for part of their main stay and even today I know of some that still do. Beyond that, dogs have been used by people for hunting live prey for thousands of years. And before they were dogs, they were wolves.

That said, there is likely more to this story than we or the owners know. Perhaps the dog simply saw the opportunity to take down weaker prey animals. The dog could have a medical condition causing it to act out aggressively. The dog could be dominant, extremely territorial, or animal or people aggressive. With proper management, many dogs can be worked with and managed safely once their problems are properly identified. If the current owner doesn't want to do deal with it, there may well be someone out there with the experience and time to make the effort.


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## Jenn (Oct 24, 2007)

HGFarm said:


> Just edited to note- I do NOT understand why any dog owner thinks it's ok for a dog to kill ANYthing- whether it is a bird, cat, rabbit.... they get the taste of blood, and think that it's ok to kill things and dogs dont know where to draw the line- period. They dont know it's ok to kill the chicken or kitty, but then not ok to kill the pony or neighbor's calf!!! And I can't tell you how many people I know or have heard of that think 'Isn't that cute- the dog just loves to 'play' with the horses (or goats, or....)". This is the first stage of 'stalking' and going after other animals and should NEVER be allowed.


I disagree whole heartedly with this statement. There are dog breeds specifically bred to kill predators while being extremely gentle with children and humans. I have one - a Maremma. The breed is designed to protect families and livestock and to KILL wolves and other predators. My Maremma patrols our property, checks our livestock, and is so gentle with the other dogs, cats and my daughter. (Please note, I would NEVER let my child be around ANY dog unsupervised, she is only outside when she's with me.) We had a downer cow this spring and that dog, just a pup at the time, would spend much of the day lying beside the cow, protecting it. Her "killer" instinct isn't to kill easy prey like a downed cow - she easily could have if she had been so inclined - it's to kill predators.

I plan to get a second Maremma when one of our other dogs passes from old age, so that the two Maremmas can take down coyotes together - Anna won't go after them alone, right now she just defends the property with her presence.

We also have cocker spaniels, two of whom in their younger years killed a chicken or two if one got out of the coop and flapped excitedly. I don't blame them for that - it's a dog's nature to become excited about easy prey. These same two dogs are INCREDIBLE with children. Kids can literally do anything to them and they'll just lie there and take it. The highlight of those dogs' lives is when my daughter and I go outside to play and they get their daily hug and kiss from her. They have never so much as lifted a lip to a human, despite unpleasant experiences like having porcupine quills pulled out without sedative, home haircuts, daily injections and pills for illness ... they're just GOOD DOGS.

When I was a kid, we had a hoity-toity pedigreed yorkshire terrier who loved to hunt rabbits when we were out at my grandpa's farm. She was never so happy as when she brought home her kill to show us. We also had a terri-poo who was a better mouser than most cats. Those two dogs were doing the jobs they were originally bred to do - take out vermin. My brother and I spent a good portion of our lives around these "killer" dogs, doing all the things that kids do with animals, and neither one of us ever got even a nip.

Many breeds are bred to "stalk" other animals - border collies, australian shepherds, heelers, etc ... I use my Aussie's "stalking" skills to easily move cattle and horses. Two of my cocker spaniels are also de facto cattle dogs when I need them to be. My Aussie LOVES to "stalk" the cats. He LIVES for the times they'll play along and "run away" from him. What does he do when he catches them? Nothing. It's no fun when they stop running and he loses interest. Those cats sleep with the dogs, rub all over them, and on cold days, those [email protected] cats sleep ON the dogs. The Aussie is 14 years old and has never harmed a cat.

My aunt rescued an abused greyhound who, before she was rescued, would take down deer when she got hungry because her previous owners didn't feed her. My aunt has two kids and that dog is as gentle as can be with them. She's an absolute treasure of a dog, and I don't like greyhounds as a rule.

So, the point and moral of the stories is this: dogs can be BOTH. They can fulfill their natural "killer" instincts AND be trustworthy family dogs. You CANNOT make blanket statements like "I do NOT understand why any dog owner thinks it's ok for a dog to kill ANYthing- whether it is a bird, cat, rabbit.... they get the taste of blood, and think that it's ok to kill things and dogs dont know where to draw the line- period." That's just plain ignorant when there are millions and millions of families who will tell you otherwise.

Problems arise between people and dogs when people forget what dogs are FOR. Most of them weren't originally bred to be house pets. Chihuahuas are meant to be rat killers in Mexico. Jack Russel Terriers were created to dig out badgers and other rodents. Cocker spaniels are hunting dogs, so are labrador and golden retreivers. It's going to take a LOT longer to breed those "killer" instincts out of those breeds because people spent hundreds of years breeding those instincts INTO the breeds in the first place. Dogs NEED to have jobs, or else have daily play that replicates their jobs.


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## kaykay (Oct 24, 2007)

I agree jenn. You do need to look at the particular breed and what it was bred to do. So many people forget what certain breeds were intended to do and then dont understand when the dog herds the kids etc. If you buy a herding dog it is going to herd!

Also cats kill birds, rabbits etc all the time. This is their instinct. But I dont see people rushing to put cats down because they killed a bird? Obviously most cats are smaller and cant do the damage a dog does but Im just using this to illustrate that this is what natural instincts do. Even cats that are well fed will hunt.

Most of the time with dogs it comes down to training, training and training. Which a lot of people dont want to take the time to do.


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## runamuk (Oct 24, 2007)

Jenn and Mininik I agree with both of you.

And this is a good example of why "I" believe people seeking a dog need to do their homework and understand a breed's purpose. I also strongly support purebred dogs for this reason. I have a ST. Poodle who hunts birds this is a trait in the breed, and to him a chicken is just another bird to be picked up and delivered.....until I can build a dog proof chicken pen I will not own chickens.

Sighthounds hunt small furry game and some hunt large furry game, so a sighthound killing a cat/rabbit/squirrel that gets on its property or in its yard is following through on instinct that makes up the breed. Just about all dogs in the terrier, sporting, and hound groups will hunt and kill that is what these groups were bred for.

One of the first lessons a hunting dog must learn is......NOT to chase deer.....big nono......this simple act saves many dogs lives.

many of the other groups of dogs consist of breeds with multiple uses, researching historical uses of a breed can help an owner understand what is common for a breed, be it killing rats, or guarding livestock, or herding or doing all these things such as a few in the herding group collies, aussies, Gsds, were multi purpose farm dogs.

The last thing I want to see is breeds losing the characteristics that seperate them and make them each so unique. I have no desire to own a generic dog.

Now if anyone has a good mole/vole dog let me know I'd be happy to let it come work on my property :bgrin :bgrin


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## StarRidgeAcres (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm so sorry this happened. :no: But please do be careful with your horses. I recently had a dog pass away and I consulted Bonnie because I had some qeustions. I won't go into all the details, but what I think is important to share here is that my dog was blind and had been so since before we got minis. But before he was blind, he had seen deer. He died because he was kicked by one of the horses. He "told" Bonnie it was a deer! To him, maybe it was a similar scent, I don't know. But my dog thought the minis were deer, so please be careful in case your dog thinks the same way.

Again, I'm sorry this happened. No matter what you do, it won't be easy.


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## Reble (Oct 24, 2007)

Sorry this has happened, but unless you know about his first year in life, I would be concerned :new_shocked:


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## RockRiverTiff (Oct 24, 2007)

I don't feel qualified to give advice on this, but also wanted to offer you my sympathy. It must have been a very frightening situation, and I don't envy you the choice you have to make.


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## New_Image (Oct 24, 2007)

I've always had big dogs, my Husky killed a chicken and a rabbit, my Shepherd chases deer although she would never kill one, shes more in it for the fun of a chase. Shes also been known to run the fence chasing horses when they run. (I do not allow them to do these things, but it has happened) My lab/pit mix had no interest in chasing or killing anything but was defiantly owner perfective towards other people. SHE is the one who we worried about and kept in a cage when not watched. Dogs have natural instincts and dogs will be dogs. Because your Rottie killed a deer doesn't mean he should be put to sleep or locked away and the key thrown out... It doesn't mean hes this way towards people either although I'd be careful of him around kids as with any big dogs. I WOULD be nervous with him around horses, foals especially, however. There isn't much difference between a horse and a deer. I wouldn't deem him too dangerous to keep or re-home though, if you wanted to keep him, keep him in a cage or on a dog run when you're not watching. If you'd rather re-home him he would make a nice only pet I am sure.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 24, 2007)

runamuk said:


> Now if anyone has a good mole/vole dog let me know I'd be happy to let it come work on my property :bgrin :bgrin



get yourself a Schnauzer


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## mininik (Oct 24, 2007)

LOL Lisa

It's funny how different dogs even within the same breed have less or more of the drive in them that they were initially bred for. I have a bunch of Miniature Schnauzer clients and I think the most the majority of them would "catch" would be a squeaky toy or a ball. Similarly, my male Toy Poodle will love on birds if given the chance, while our b*tch would rather eat them and anything else that tries to take flight. One of our Boxers will guard the home, while the other would welcome intruders. I'm not sure WHAT the Doxiepoo is going to turn into yet!


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## Ashley (Oct 24, 2007)

> QUOTE(runamuk @ Oct 24 2007, 02:20 PM)
> Now if anyone has a good mole/vole dog let me know I'd be happy to let it come work on my property
> 
> get yourself a Schnauzer


Or any of my three would be good, I got a boxer, cocker or boston.


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## White Socks Miniature (Oct 25, 2007)

I just have to say I would definately get the dog evaluated. The dog was only acting upon his natural predatory instincts. Unfortunately now that he has learned that he can chase, hunt and kill a deer, cat, ect. He has also lost any inhibition towards this behaviour, and is most likely to do it again. We had a similar problem with a dog that came into the pet clinic. The owners decided to re home her and she went to a home with a couple who did not want children and lived in the city and she has done wonderfully! There are lots of choices to explore!

I know its a tough decision! Good luck!

Cheers

Masako


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## HGFarm (Oct 25, 2007)

Yes, the dog my daughter had was wonderful with the grandkids. It was great for them to come home from school one day and find the chinchillas cage had been worked on til it came apart enough for the dog to kill them.

Then came the horse, and when the neighbor tried to interfere, the dog turned on him too. He was a great dog with the family and kids.... Notice I said WAS.

I have seen TOO MANY issues with dogs that are allowed to run free and attack what they want. Ask Tony and some of the other forum members here who have pics to post on what was left of the carnage. I do not tolerate any dog attacks.

I have two large dogs that protect the place- without killing anything and I dont need/want a dog that I can't trust on the place - with my animals or other animals in surrounding areas.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 25, 2007)

HGFarm said:


> I have two large dogs that protect the place- without killing anything and I dont need/want a dog that I can't trust on the place - with my animals or other animals in surrounding areas.


Just playing devils advocate here but if one of your 2 large dogs that protect your place, killed an intruding dog would you then have them put down since they then had a "taste of blood" or have proven that "could" kill?

being that they were doing there job many times it takes more then a bark or two to keep other dogs at bay.

and if you would not get rid of them is it then possible that this dog thought of the deer on its property as a threat? (we dont know the dog so we dont know but is that a possiblity?)

again honestly not challenging you just wondering what your thoughts are on the above scenario with your own dogs


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## palominogirl (Oct 25, 2007)

i have a dog who has killed rabbits and cats she chases two cats that we have inside if they run she will chase but if they stand there she wont do anything. she is part rotty i think re homing your dog is kinda a bit over reacting. maybe the dog seen the deer run and took off after it. from my own opinion i wouldnt get rid of the dog. but good luck with your decision

and just because this happened doesnt make the dog dangerous. its a dog being a dog things happen. just because the dog killed the deer doesnt mean you have to send him to a professional build a run pen that is fenced in but the dog can still run thats wat we made set his limits my dog isnt allowed around our horses and if she gets out you wont see her around the barn. if the dog killed the deer it could have been through instincts i dont think it would be necessary to put the dog down or send him away or find professional help for the dog

good luck

britt


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## runamuk (Oct 25, 2007)

HGFarm said:


> Yes, the dog my daughter had was wonderful with the grandkids. It was great for them to come home from school one day and find the chinchillas cage had been worked on til it came apart enough for the dog to kill them.
> 
> Then came the horse, and when the neighbor tried to interfere, the dog turned on him too. He was a great dog with the family and kids.... Notice I said WAS.


My question is what breed was this dog? And chinchillas rarely are a good choice of pet to be left in a cage where a dog could gain access. Whenever I have had caged pets along with dogs and cats, all animals could be kept safely away from each other if I am gone, crates, seperate rooms, garages, kennel runs, tethers. It is my responsibility to keep my animals safe and sometimes this means safe from each other.

As for your guardians, if push comes to shove and these are LGD's they will kill.


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## HGFarm (Oct 25, 2007)

Lisa, regarding my dogs possibly killing an 'intruding' dog.... my dogs are not of the 'disposition' to do so, first of all- and my point is, I would not own one that was. I have had dogs- and some type of livestock, all my life, and have never found the need for a dog to kill anything. Dogs can chase off an intruding dog or other animal (my current place is also fenced where they cannot get in in the first place) without having to kill everything that comes on the place. Mine will bark warnings when something is going on and I actually get up to CHECK why they are barking- many people tune it out and pay no attention at all to what Fido is doing all day.

Would I allow my dogs to bite someone every time somebody came to the door? No... it's basicly the same thing. You can have a well behaved safe trustworthy dog that is a good watchdog - and then you can have one that is allowed to do whatever it wants, and end up with problems, depending on the conditions of where you live.

I have seen strange dogs fight (not mine) and none of them killed each other- once the pecking order was established, that was it. There is a difference in a dog protecting property and things, and a dog killing things.

There was never a day on any of the ranches that we worked on that we didnt pack a gun every day of our life- and it was not from our own dogs, who were in the yard when not working with us. It was from dogs from 'town' that ran all day and packed up to chase/kill livestock and other things. (in addition to the snakes and other issues that may arise in that type of livestyle). I feel pretty 'naked' doing a desk job now.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 25, 2007)

Ok again I am not challenging you if we were in person and this was not in type it would just be a conversation



: but..

if your dogs wouldnt "kill" anything that came into your yard while you are not home then are they truly protecting you or your livestock/property?

Of course not every dog fight ends in a dead dog however.. a dog who is protecting his territory is usually willing to fight to the death if need be to protect his territory and home and or owner

I have dogs who will let me know if someone is on the property which is great when I am around to check it out however I have no issue having a dog who will "back it up" when I am not here. To me that is the whole reason of having a dog that will guard things as well as protect my house and my family.

LOL Just ask runamuck who is a very experienced dog person including rescues with agressive and fear agressive dogs... she opened my front door when I wasnt here and never made it past the laundry room hee hee

Dont get me wrong I am not defending the dog owners who allow there dogs to run wild. HOwever personally I am not sure I would be so willing to give up on a dog so quickly assuming I knew the dog and the circumstances which led to him/her killing a intruder of any kind


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## New_Image (Oct 25, 2007)

Just a thought.... Hunting has started, was this deer injured? A healthy deer is generally faster then a rottie and its quite and accomplishment for him to take down a happy, healthy deer with no help. Might be off topic.


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## runamuk (Oct 25, 2007)

New_Image said:


> Just a thought.... Hunting has started, was this deer injured? A healthy deer is generally faster then a rottie and its quite and accomplishment for him to take down a happy, healthy deer with no help. Might be off topic.


That thought crossed my mind as well.



> LOL Just ask runamuck who is a very experienced dog person including rescues with agressive and fear agressive dogs... she opened my front door when I wasnt here and never made it past the laundry room hee hee


And it sure wasn't your pitbull....LOL..he just said "oh HI" wag wag wag :bgrin :bgrin

I also do NOT defend anyone who lets their dogs roam free to do what they will. But I do defend a dog doing a job on it's own property.


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## JumpinJackFarm (Oct 25, 2007)

You most certinally have a lot of good advise here.

You have such a hard decision to make





I truely believe that *ANY* dog can loose it at ANY time. We had a younger friend years ago that had a Rott and the dog went crazy for cats and I am sure killed some or at least got the taste. The dog then started turning on dogs. The dog was nuts!! He even attacked my SharPei blend dog. My Bruno put up a pretty good fight and gave my Hubby enough time to go get a shovel and beat the Rott off him. If that dog would have done that to a child.... the child would have been real messed up or worse :no:

We had a Shephard that hated people.... his purpose in life was to protect us. He couldn't help himself he was just hard wired that way. That is how we met our neighbors when we moved in to our home...we introduced ourselves...gave them a picture of Calvin and our phone number and basically told them "if you see him...get in your home and call us". He never got out/loose because we had him on a "Pully Run" that was fenced as well ... so it can be done, having a troublesome dog. Be careful with him...for your own safety too...he could have a brain tumor or something like that?

My thoughts will be with you ~ Teri


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## HGFarm (Oct 25, 2007)

"if your dogs wouldnt "kill" anything that came into your yard while you are not home then are they truly protecting you or your livestock/property?"

That is why I have a .45.

Again, my horses are in a fence, inside another fence. My neighbors are retired and home all the time and check on the place, in addition to my nephew who goes to school in the evenings when I am home.

I have also had many dogs, of many different kinds. I have worked a variety of cattle dogs, trained an Akita in obedience and showed him to his CD in four shows. I have had dogs as pets, etc...

I've been on the earth for a few years now- no longer a spring chicken (or even a summer one I dont think



: ) and in all kinds of situtations have never needed a dog that would kill. Will they bite when NEED be? Yes, they will and have had them come to my aid a couple of times when they THOUGHT I needed help....

<inserting amusing story or two here> We used to get bats up under the eaves of one of the old ranch houses we lived in. I cannot stand bats (- you know, the usual visions of having them tangled up in your long hair, etc..) and to thin them out since we had so many, I used to get rid of the ones on the house (they were trying to move IN) hanging under the eave with snakeshot. I went out one evening just at dark, and when I shot at them this time, one fell straight down, a couple took off, one came toward me and fell dead right at my feet and one went RIGHT over my right shoulder! Of course, like an idiot in snake country being out there in shorts and barefeet, I screamed as it went over my shoulder and the other landed at my toes! The dogs, hearing the shot and me scream, both jumped up and were about to come out the front window-(no, it was not open) and I had to yell NO and tell them it was all ok. They were ok then.

Another time I locked my daughter out by accident- I thought she was in the house in bed, and had forgotten that she had gone to a friends. I locked the front door and went to bed. My dog- a border collie and queensland heeler, slept next to my bed all his life. He was a large dog-85 pounds and looked like a big black german shepard. Late at night I woke up to him laying beside the bed growling. I didnt move but glanced down to see his hair up, he was stiff as a board and still growling, and staring at the door in my room that led right out to the side yard, which was not fenced. There was a very large window to pass before getting to the door and I saw a person's silouette coming by the window to the door! I thought maybe it was the neighbors next door and the light past their place made the shadow look larger, but no, it was a person outside the door, and as I am laying there taking this all in, realized that I had NOT locked the door!! I moved my hand to the pistol by the bed but by that time the dog was on his feet, hair straight up, still beside the bed but in 'launch' position now.

HOPING it was maybe a neighborhood kid going by (though I couldnt imagine why they would be outside the house) my eyes really popped open when the door knob actually turned and began to open. I didnt have time to even move, because the dog was already in mid air as the person started to enter and he caught her scent just as my daughter said 'Mom!! Why did you lock me out??!!' The dog dropped and was quite happy to see her, but he was doing his job. I had to recover from a heart attack. (First rule of gun safety, you dont shoot at something you cant see or identify and I would never have had time- the dog was there first. )

Will my dogs protect me? You bet. (Well, I'm not too sure about the one, but the other I have no doubt) However, they do not just go around the property killing cats, rabbits. They know their job and place when they are NEEDED- they do not just attack anything that comes on the place. (That's my job, LOL)

My point is, a dog can be a good watch dog when needed- without killing stuff. Should a person not real familiar with my dogs go in the back yard when I'm not home? I wouldnt recommend it and couldnt guarantee anything, but I certainly would not expect to come home and find a leg on the back porch and a couple of arms under the tree by the hay shed. Should anyone try to let themselves into the house in the dark at night? Hahaha, I'd like to see it.

Dogs can sense when someone, or something is being 'sneaky' or is 'creeping around', or when things are not right, etc... and in my opinion, there is no need to have one that randomly kills something, like a deer, a foal, or a calf because it is running around in play, or bounds through the property. That is not a threatening gesture.

So a dog will not attack 'it's own' horses, calves, etc.. but will attack the neighbors that is not his to 'guard' if it gets out or through the fence and he knows it's not 'his'?? Livestock, deer, etc.. are not a 'threat' to a dog's property and empire that it is in charge of. Neither is the barn cat. Someone had forgotten to tell my neighbor's dogs that it was ok to kill wildlife but NOT the caretaker's kids. The third time was the last time- and it got worse each time. Had they not been close by that time.....

My personal experience with dogs that *like * killing things, vs. doing it's job as NEEDED as a guardian is that there is a BIG disaster waiting to happen. Being a guard dog does not mean random helter skelter killing of anything and everything.

Just my opinion from a few decades of experience...


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## runamuk (Oct 25, 2007)

Obviously we will have to agree (or not) to disagree.

I will not believe that a coursing breed that kills a cat or rabbit in its yard or in the field for that matter is a dangerous dog. I know far too many that are wonderful dogs that also course hares.

And I will never think that a LGD that kills a coyote protecting its flock is a dangerous dog.

And if a terrier kills rats and mice in the barn I also do not deem that a dangerous dog.

I also will not own any of these breeds if I cannot house, train, and properly protect them from outsiders who do not understand their purpose and function. To do so would be a disservice to the people preserving these dogs for future generations.

As for the rotti definately seek some help from a qualified dog behaviorist preferably familiar with rottweilers.


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## minimule (Oct 25, 2007)

Hope she doesn't mind me posting this but she did have the dog put down today. It's all over with.

I do have to add that some of you are pretty harsh on here. One of the reasons a lot of folks don't post as much as they used to. :nono:


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## capall beag (Oct 25, 2007)

One Q, Were they your cats that the dog killed?

My dogs might hunt down an animal/bird in the woods but they wouldn't hurt anything living here.

My labrador killed a neighbors chicken, many years back, but she would never hurt one of mine.

I have 4 dogs, 2 are jrt's. I free range my hens and have barncats. My dogs KNOW to walk away from the chickens and cats even if provoked and they do.

But the jrt's would definately chase a cat in the woods and would chase and kill squirrels and chipmunks in the woods, given a chance.

If any dog of mine killed any of our pets I would get rid of them immediately.

I don't know that your Rottie will pose a threat to your horses or not but maybe it is not worth the chance??

To actually kill the deer, rather than just take it down, must have been a very aggressive attack...........

It would seem to me you have an aggressive protector not just a protective dog.

I wouldn't choose to own an aggressive dog.

Either way it must be a difficult decision for you


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 25, 2007)

I am very sorry I know how hard that must have been. No judgements here just honest sympothy for what she went thru today


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## StarRidgeAcres (Oct 25, 2007)

minimule said:


> Hope she doesn't mind me posting this but she did have the dog put down today. It's all over with.
> 
> 
> I do have to add that some of you are pretty harsh on here. One of the reasons a lot of folks don't post as much as they used to. :nono:


I'm sorry it came to this, but I'm not judging her decision. I don't think anyone can say shat they'd do unless it was happening to them. I currently have a LGD that has food aggression issues and I debate every single day about what to do with her. It's not easy because we're all animal lovers here. We all want the best for all of them and sometimes that means making a very touch decision.

I'm so sorry this happened.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 26, 2007)

I am sorry you had to go through that. I know if he were mine, after killing a cat, that would have been it for me and he would have been put to sleep, end of story. I don't tolerate agressive behaviour in dogs and I don't think it would be fair to give him to someone else either because it could spell disaster for them if he went after a child, etc. One thing you could do is muzzle him when he goes outside. That way he won't be able to kill a cat or mini, etc. I am sure apart from what happened today he is a good dog... try the muzzle when he is out and about.

I missed the above post, I am sorry you are without your furbaby tonight :no: . I do however think you made the right decision because more than likely he wouldn't have like the muzzle




I am so sorry. Hugs to you.


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## Charlene (Oct 26, 2007)

i'm so sorry it came to this. so many times, dogs in this state of mind are not happy dogs at all. they are frustrated dogs. frustration leads to everything bad. you made the right decision in this case and i commend you for it. still, he was your pet and it must still hurt very much. i'm sorry for your loss.


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## SunQuest (Oct 26, 2007)

I am sorry as well. No negative feelings towards what was done. Only Donna knows in her heart what was right and how this dog acted in general.

For those that were so harsh and firmly believe that no dog should ever kill anything, let me say that some dogs are natural hunters and will KILL cats and other animals smaller than themselves. ALL dogs are preditors and as such that instict can be strong in some of them, but it doesn't mean they will attack a human. And some breeds the hunting instinct is worse than others. Siberian Huskies are a great example of this. It is natural for a husky to want to hunt and kill anything smaller than them due to their harsh living enviroment that they were originally created for. This was the very first thing that people who raise this breed told me to be aware of. If huskies are raised with cats they will be less likely to attack them, but it has been widely known to happen. And why should I expect any thing different from a breed so closely related to wolves and in which that same breed had to hunt for it's self to survive at times.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia



Wikipedia said:


> Despite their wolf-like appearance, Siberian Huskies generally have a gentle temperament. Being a working breed, Siberians are very energetic and enjoy the ability to explore and run. That, combined with their striking appearance, has made them popular as both family pets and as show dogs. Siberians can be extremely affectionate, curious (like all dogs), and welcoming to people, characteristics that usually render them poor guard dogs. Properly socialized Siberians are most often quite gentle with children.
> The harsh conditions in which Siberians originated rewarded a strong prey drive, as food was often scarce. Consequently, Siberians may instinctively attack animals such as house cats, birds, squirrels, guinea pigs, rabbits, chickens, quail, and even deer, and have been known to savage sheep. However, many households enjoy harmonious, mixed "packs" of cats and Siberians; this works best when the dogs are raised with cats from puppyhood.


I will add to the above quote that I have raised huskies and cats together with no bad outcomes. But, when a stray cat walks onto the property, watch out as I have yet to see a husky that won't, at a minimum, chase them away.

Nope, there was no right answer here on this one. I definately agree 100 percent with Rori and Lisa... You must know the breed, the traits (positive and negative), train, and house accordingly. Just because a dog will kill a cat or a chicken doesn't mean that the same dog is a danger to humans.


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## runamuk (Oct 26, 2007)

minimule said:


> Hope she doesn't mind me posting this but she did have the dog put down today. It's all over with.
> 
> I do have to add that some of you are pretty harsh on here. One of the reasons a lot of folks don't post as much as they used to. :nono:


I am so sorry for your loss and having to deal with such a tough decision. Sending you cyber ((((HUGS)))))


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## HGFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

I am a big dog lover too and very sorry it came to this, but you know your dog - we dont, and I am sure it was not an easy decision, and I am sure you put a lot of thought into it.

Any opinions I stated here were just that- my opinions, based on what I have personally observed in my lifetime. Anyone that knows me knows that I have drug lost injured dogs to the vet that were found alongside a road, brought home strays that needed homes, helped the neighbors with puppies, etc... and my own dogs are greatly loved. However just based on our experiences here, I have a 'no tolerance' to dogs who kill for fun and/or pleasure.

I am so sorry for your loss- it is not easy. Big HUGS to you.


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 26, 2007)

I can see this is VERY long so I am skipping right to the end, so as always if this has been said, apologies.

Dog to animals aggression and Dog to Human aggression are two different situations and are NOT interchangeable.

You would not be telling off or even worrying about this if you owned a Hound.

It sounds to me as if you have some underlying fears about your dog that have nothing to do with this incident.

My Dobes hunt and kill rabbits on a regular basis, I have never attempted to stop them, nor have I ever considered they would hunt and kill the horses, let alone me- I am NOT a rabbit!!!

If they were to put up a deer they would hunt it down and kill it if they could catch it- a pair I had years ago put up two Fallow deer on a field at the foot of the Sussex downs before losing them a mile away on the Forest Fence- my only worry was that they would not kill clean as they had never hunted an animal that big before.

If the deer your Rott killed had not already been half dead , trapped, or injured there is NO chance your dog would have caught it so it is most likely your dog has saved it from a slow and lingering death- probably already been shot and half dead from loss of blood.

Go and let your dog out, construct a decent kennel and run so this cannot happen again and upset you and take the dog to training classes so you get some confidence.


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## iluvwalkers (Oct 26, 2007)

[SIZE=12pt]*i am so sorry you had to make such a decision. i am also sorry that some would tell you to put the dog down with out knowing the dog. i do not believe because a dog kills a mouse, squirl or even a deer (which seems to me must have been injured) that it will get the "taste" of blood and then stalk children and kill them. i will also say rotweillers are not a dog i would own (there are several breeds i have no interest in owning) but would not dare to judge the sitiuation by one post and never meeting the dog :no: . i do hope your decision to put your dog down was your own, you know the dog and we don't. people never cease to amaze me



, thinking of you, Nikki*[/SIZE]


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## Robin1 (Oct 27, 2007)

I rescued a Rottie that was a known cat killer and VERY white coat aggresive (she hated people in uniform). I brought her into a house with an Akita and several cats, both inside and outside cats. With very little work she learned NOT to chase cats, she even let them sleep with her. She was with me a lot including out with the horses and she learned on her own to bring the horses in and put them in their proper stalls. She just needed a home where she was able to redirect her energy. I had her for 9 very short years and she never made me cry except for the day she died. :no:

Robin


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