# AMHR shows



## leeapachemoon (Mar 14, 2011)

There are a few AMHR shows I would like to go to but I am so confused about what classes to go in.

 

First off, I don't know the difference between Foundation and Classic. Someone please explain.

 

Then, Country Pleasure, Western Pleasure and Pleasure Driving. Help!

 

Versatility?

 

Can I use my Mini Meadowbrook in these classes? I always see people with those plain black show carts, I don't have one of those. I have been showing ADS and 4-H so I am lost when it comes to AMHR.


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## Marsha Cassada (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm planning to enter a Country Pleasure driving class at my first R show next month. I will be using my Jerald Runabout, as I have no show cart cart. I've used this cart at A shows in the past and it was fine. Nothing in the rules says a competitor has to have a "show cart".


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## leeapachemoon (Mar 15, 2011)

I just packed my rulebook so I can't look it up.


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## Sandee (Mar 15, 2011)

leeapachemoon said:


> There are a few AMHR shows I would like to go to but I am so confused about what classes to go in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only reason to not use your meadowbrook would be if it has the wooden wheels (which I suspect it does). In some arenas the footing is too deep for the minis to back up with the wooden wheels. If your horse is used to driving with the wooden wheels then it would be ok for Country or WEstern Pleasure. I don't think there is any rule that says you couldn't use it for Pleasure but you probably won't see anyone else using wooden wheels for PLeasure class.

Difference: Western Pl. driving - the horse carries their head no more than (I think it's) 3 inches above their withers and they don't bend their knees at the trot (more of a stiff legged movement)

Country Pl driving - Horse carries their head upwards a bit higher and lifts their legs so has a bend to the knees when troting.

Pleasure driving - Very high head carriage and high knee movement ...they want them to look fancy in this class.

Foundation ASPC is part of their breeding - whether they have "foundation registered" horses (don't know - think it's) for 4 or 5 generations in their background.

Classic ASPC is the horses that aren't usually Foundation registered and their movement is a bit, little bit, higher and they are gnerally more refined than foundation stock. I say generally because not ALL are and if the movement of a Foundation horse fits more in with the Classic's then that is where people will show those Foundation horses.

Clear as mud!


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## leeapachemoon (Mar 15, 2011)

Sandee said:


> The only reason to not use your meadowbrook would be if it has the wooden wheels (which I suspect it does). In some arenas the footing is too deep for the minis to back up with the wooden wheels. If your horse is used to driving with the wooden wheels then it would be ok for Country or WEstern Pleasure. I don't think there is any rule that says you couldn't use it for Pleasure but you probably won't see anyone else using wooden wheels for PLeasure class.
> 
> Difference: Western Pl. driving - the horse carries their head no more than (I think it's) 3 inches above their withers and they don't bend their knees at the trot (more of a stiff legged movement)
> 
> ...


Thank You






I think I got it.


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## Field-of-Dreams (Mar 15, 2011)

Sandee said:


> Foundation ASPC is part of their breeding - whether they have "foundation registered" horses (don't know - think it's) for 4 or 5 generations in their background.
> 
> Classic ASPC is the horses that aren't usually Foundation registered and their movement is a bit, little bit, higher and they are gnerally more refined than foundation stock. I say generally because not ALL are and if the movement of a Foundation horse fits more in with the Classic's then that is where people will show those Foundation horses.
> 
> Clear as mud!


Don't forget, Foundation and Classic are PONIES, not Minis!

And Versatility is three classes in one: first you drive as a pleasure class. It doesn't specifiy what type, so drive your horse's "style", i.e., Western, Country or Single. Then, without leaving the ring, everyone unhitches in two minutes (you MUST have help for this) or less and the horses are judged for halter. After the halter portion, everyone lines up for the hunter portion. Normally four to six jumps, I think. You have to "pin" in every class, meaning if you are disqualified in jumping you are disqualified for the whole class. I've never done it (my gelding disdains jumping!) but my friend has and it looks like fun!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 15, 2011)

leeapachemoon said:


> Then, Country Pleasure, Western Pleasure and Pleasure Driving. Help!


Everything used to be Single Pleasure Driving and then when that got too big and the less-fancy horses weren't winning, they created Country Pleasure for those who were less high-action and eye catching. At some point recently the lower action horses who weren't capable of high headsets or weren't driven checked up got their own division, called Western Country Pleasure. So now you have WCP with the more natural headsets, more sweeping strides and more relaxed attitude; Country Pleasure with the rounder or more active movers with various levels of headset based on conformation, and Single Pleasure where the really fancy, snort-and-blow high movers belong.



leeapachemoon said:


> Versatility?


What Field-of-Dreams said.



Up here they only have to clear 1-3 jumps most of the time though.



leeapachemoon said:


> Can I use my Mini Meadowbrook in these classes? I always see people with those plain black show carts, I don't have one of those. I have been showing ADS and 4-H so I am lost when it comes to AMHR.


You can, yes. There's nothing in the rules against it. It would fit best in the WCP class but be acceptable in CP as well. Just beware that if the footing is deep it may bog your horse down so he can't move as well and you'll need breeching to back a cart that heavy.

Leia


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## leeapachemoon (Mar 15, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Everything used to be Single Pleasure Driving and then when that got too big and the less-fancy horses weren't winning, they created Country Pleasure for those who were less high-action and eye catching. At some point recently the lower action horses who weren't capable of high headsets or weren't driven checked up got their own division, called Western Country Pleasure. So now you have WCP with the more natural headsets, more sweeping strides and more relaxed attitude; Country Pleasure with the rounder or more active movers with various levels of headset based on conformation, and Single Pleasure where the really fancy, snort-and-blow high movers belong.


This makes me think of another question. At ADS shows I do not use a check but I believe I need to use one for AMHR, is this correct? Either Side or Over, right?


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## Marsha Cassada (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, a check is required. And blinders. I was hoping a check was not required in the R shows, but it was in the rules.

This is a pdf of the Rules. It is a large file.

http://www.shetlandmini.com/images/pdf/rules2008.pdf


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 15, 2011)

leeapachemoon said:


> This makes me think of another question. At ADS shows I do not use a check but I believe I need to use one for AMHR, is this correct? Either Side or Over, right?


Disgustingly, yes.



I hate that rule with a passion! Oh well.





I put the check on just tight enough to look snug when my horse holds his head where he naturally places it and take it off as soon as we're outside the ring. This works well for my WCP horse as he has enough freedom to stand comfortably that way but for my higher-headed CP horse I will need to use some elastic so he doesn't yank himself in the mouth when he tries to relax in the lineup. I use a sidecheck on both as it doesn't affect the nose carriage as much, just the height of the head.

Leia


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## leeapachemoon (Mar 16, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Disgustingly, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will use a side check also. I don't like this rule either!


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## RhineStone (Mar 16, 2011)

leeapachemoon said:


> I will use a side check also. I don't like this rule either!


You all need to put in a rule change proposal. Think of how this is affecting the participation in those breed shows.


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## Sandee (Mar 16, 2011)

I believe the rule reads that you must have a check - be it side or over- but it does not say it has to be tight! For Western Pleasure my stallion wears a side check but his head /neck is so far down that the side check just flops on him.


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## leeapachemoon (Mar 16, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> You all need to put in a rule change proposal. Think of how this is affecting the participation in those breed shows.


I will look into this when I finally have some time. lol


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## Roxane Martin (Mar 22, 2011)

Regarding the blinders--would a partial blinder, like the Kant C Backs, be permissible in AMHR shows? I'd love for blinders to be optional.

If ADS and AMHR are going to work together, does anyone think that some of the AMHR rules will change to be in alignment with ADS?


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 22, 2011)

Wouldn't that be nice? It does occur to me that Convention is going to be held in Portland this year, meaning many of us in "VSE-Central" will be able to attend for the first time. Wonder if we could get enough people to vote through a rule change about mandatory checks?





Leia


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## Tatonkas Dream (Mar 22, 2011)

I was reading thru the posts and wanted to ask - since many are saying you can use a meadowbrook type cart in an AMHR show - has the rule changed... I thought that technically speaking the rule book states that the cart must have a boot/cover over the area your feet go... and that generally speaking at the local level most judges would overlook this for someone wanting to go out and try but that they could also disqualify you for not having the covered boot on your cart?

Please let me know feed back on this one...

And I've also been told by more than one person that while the rulebook states optional on a martingale that others have had a judge say a person was not completely turned out for not having one so to always have it for the breed shows as they are so use to seeing everyone have one that you 'have' to even thou the rule book states optional


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## susanne (Mar 23, 2011)

Is there still time to submit a proposed rule change?

Let's determine the deadline and make certain to submit a proposal. Leia is correct that the Portland convention is a golden opportunity that we cannot afford to miss.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 23, 2011)

Tatonkas Dream said:


> I was reading thru the posts and wanted to ask - since many are saying you can use a meadowbrook type cart in an AMHR show - has the rule changed... I thought that technically speaking the rule book states that the cart must have a boot/cover over the area your feet go...


 I don't believe that has ever been the case. The only rule I could find that was close said "All pleasure driving vehicles must be of the two-wheeled type and have a basket." A basket is the wooden foot slats, not the vinyl or patent boot. Be sure you read the rules yourself and don't rely on someone else's interpretation of them.



Tatonkas Dream said:


> And I've also been told by more than one person that while the rulebook states optional on a martingale that others have had a judge say a person was not completely turned out for not having one so to always have it for the breed shows as they are so use to seeing everyone have one that you 'have' to even thou the rule book states optional


That is more the case in A than R. I still think it's incredibly stupid and that we need to educate our judges so such idiocy doesn't happen, but until then I'll admit I tend to put one on so I don't handicap myself. If adjusted loosely it doesn't harm anything, unlike that mandatory check which either restricts the horse or is so loose it annoys them by flopping. THAT little trend I'll be the first to buck should it become optional!



susanne said:


> Is there still time to submit a proposed rule change?
> Let's determine the deadline and make certain to submit a proposal. Leia is correct that the Portland convention is a golden opportunity that we cannot afford to miss.


There have been emails going out to NW club members about this- the deadline is in July.

Leia


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## leeapachemoon (Mar 23, 2011)

If using a Meadowbrook makes me lose points, I don't mind. I just don't want to do something that is against the rules and risk being thrown out. I try to read the rulebook but most of it doesn't make sense so sometimes you need someone elses interpretation to help make sense of it all.


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## Sandee (Mar 23, 2011)

leeapachemoon said:


> If using a Meadowbrook makes me lose points, I don't mind. I just don't want to do something that is against the rules and risk being thrown out. I try to read the rulebook but most of it doesn't make sense so sometimes you need someone elses interpretation to help make sense of it all.


Agreeded and understood. The only bad question is the one that doesn't get asked and leads to an accident.


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## RhineStone (Mar 23, 2011)

Don't you all have a Technical Delegate or the like at the mini breed shows?




Granted, the TD can still interpret rules the way they see, but at least it is an _official_ "ruling" vs. just some other competitor's view.....

There haven't been too many (or any that I know of) rulings where the TD didn't agree with the judge at any shows I have been at.

Myrna


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## ruffian (Mar 23, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> Don't you all have a Technical Delegate or the like at the mini breed shows?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


AMHR approved shows must have a Show Stewards for, among other things, measuring, monitoring the show, making sure the rules are followed and also there to answer questions and help interpret the show rules. As I understand it, the Judge's opinion takes precedence INSIDE the show ring, while the Steward's opinion does anywhere outside the ring. In most cases where I've seen a question arise, it's usually the steward who is bringing something to the judges attention and the stewards opinion/expertise is usually taken.

AMHA was looking at something similar at their convention, but don't know if it went through or not.


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## Marsha Cassada (Mar 23, 2011)

I have shown at AMHA shows and never used a martingale. And I've won ribbons, so I dont' think the martingale is an issue. Maybe at the national level?

I use my Jerald Runabout and I have also seen the metal EE cart at the A shows. I wasn't sure what a "basket" was, but other drivers assured me I could use my Jerald. So I did.

I'm hoping to attend my first R show next month. I won't be using a martingale and I'll have my Jerald. So, we'll see how that works out.

The judges I saw were picky about harness--whether straps were caught on shafts, safety issues, things like that. At one show the judge saw that the headstall had come down over one ear--that was a no-no. It happened when we were in the lineup for the back. My horse shook his head and I guess that is when it happened. Another time a driver was driving without a bit and the judges got pretty worked up about that.


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## RhineStone (Mar 24, 2011)

Having a _basket_ on your cart means that you can't use your roadster cart or Hyperbike for those classes. It has nothing to do with a _boot_. The boot goes over the basket. The boot is convenient, however, when you are entering the driving ring and realize that your sunglasses are still on, so you can chuck them under your apron and they are still there when the class is over.






(BTW, there is no rule that says you can't wear your sunglasses. I just don't like to for ring classes. I will wear them for obstacles.....)

Myrna


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