# Proud Cut..



## MeadowRidge Farm (Feb 16, 2009)

I have read a few posts on here from some of the newbies using the term PROUD CUT. I just thought I would let others, who dont know.. know exactly WHAT the term refers too...




For starters it is almost unheard of in its true form today.

Proud cut is where the vet screws up and doesn't cut out all the testicular and epididymus tissue from the horse, and the horse continues to produce a high level of androgens because of it.

Alot of people will associate a jack which has bad behavier ...aggression, mounting a jenny, or just some jack tendencies, "PROUD CUT", truth is they are wrong..mounting is a dominance act, aggression CAN be just a plain pecking order,(or some really bad behavier...) and other bad behavier is LEARNED, and some will be natural anyways. So, really....unless your vet dont have a clue on how to geld a animal,(and I really cant see ANY vet not knowing how to geld...



) your jacks are gelded and NOT proud cut. Proud cut was a term used by alot of circus people, where they purposely left "things" in place, so that the circus horses would have alot more pump and pizazz then a gelding would. But, like I said it is hardly ever heard of today. Hope this helps some of the new members on here.

Corinne


----------



## Bunnylady (Feb 16, 2009)

When Sydney first came here (at about 10 months old,) boy, did we have some aggression issues. Nipping, kicking, charging, rearing, food aggression, just about any form of disrespect you could name. Okay, Syd is a horse. Did I also mention Syd is a SHE?

My point is, not all bad behavior can be blamed on testicles. Although I accuse Syd of being a colt in disguise, (and yes, I have seen her mounting her friend!) her rowdiness can't possibly be the result of an overabundance of male hormones. It's just the way she's made! I have had to put a lot of time and effort into teaching Syd that I am fun to be around, but that kind of behavior will not be tolerated. I am She Who Must Be Obeyed (any Rumpole fans out there?)





I, too, had noticed several suggestions about an animal being "proud cut" recently. I wondered if the people who said it really knew what they were saying. After all, the point of gelding these little guys is to make them nice pets, not just make them incapable of fathering foals. Why would any vet deliberately leave the job only half done? It doesn't make sense!


----------



## Emily's mom (Feb 16, 2009)

I still consider myself a newbie, so I appreciate any explaination of any and all terms!

Thanks....my Max was gelded and I was very upset the first time Emily came into heat and he mounted her, I made my husband call the people who actually gave him birth(you know what I mean) and that was 2 people ago. To find out if he was actually gelded, he was by the vet that does all his donks. I was satisified! And Emily being a youngster, she does it right back to him



KIDS!!


----------



## MeadowRidge Farm (Feb 17, 2009)

YUP~~



KIDS ...whats a mother to do






Alot of poeple think just because the testicles are removed the donkey is gelded..they dont realize that there are little nodes up there too that need to be removed. If those little nodes are left attached..they can produce some testosterone.(and I have heard from other vet clinics, I attended.. when I asked about this..that they cant, so who knows!) From what I have learned from my vet when I was helping her on farm runs, and we gelded alot of horses..was that is what will happen if the strings that attache to the testicles are not cut high enough. I also think there is a test you can have taken ..its a bloodtest, called something like HGC Response test, check with your vet.. Maybe someone from the horse board will read this and know more..I am not familiar with the test at all. Any vets reading this ...HELP... maybe you can explain proud cut better then I did.





Corinne


----------



## minimule (Feb 17, 2009)

I had a mare that DID have too much testosterone! She was a sweet little girl until I brought her home with the big herd of minis. It had always just been her and her same age/sex pal. Once she got her, she developed big jowls like a stallion, mounted all my mares and fought off the gelding. She wouldn't come into heat for either stallion. Someone suggested she had too much T. She has since moved on to a family with no other small horses.


----------



## Bunnylady (Feb 18, 2009)

minimule said:


> I had a mare that DID have too much testosterone! She was a sweet little girl until I brought her home with the big herd of minis. It had always just been her and her same age/sex pal. Once she got her, she developed big jowls like a stallion, mounted all my mares and fought off the gelding. She wouldn't come into heat for either stallion. Someone suggested she had too much T. She has since moved on to a family with no other small horses.


Hmmm, never thought about the possibility that Syd could be a "jockette." I've always assumed it was her parents' faults. Her mom was always kinda snotty and standoffish. I never met the stud that is Syd's father, but I've heard he was a real pistol! She was a verry mouthy baby, and almost as skittish as my mule about anything new. Syd is very sassy to all the animals she lives with. I've even seen her teasing Spike, the goat, and he's the only one that she's really intimidated by! We all had "Sydney moments" when she first came here, she had been here for several months before I felt safe turning my back on her. She's an absolute sweetheart for me to handle now (other than being a bit of a pest about begging for a carrot!!) but I still can't trust her around children. She's easily 10 hands measured the "normal" way, so my daughter and I are breaking her to ride. My daughter is 8 years old, I have her help me with lunging and whatnot, so that Syd will learn to listen to her too.

Back On Topic, I have heard recurrent rumors about unscrupulous individuals that did regular gelding surgery on animals that were actually cryptos, removed the descended testicle, and just didn't "let on" about the one that was hiding. I have no idea whether such rumors have any foundation, but I have heard there is a blood test that can be used to check whether there is enough hormone to justify looking further.


----------



## Witts Mini Horse Ranch (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks for the info, must admit I am ignorant of the actually meaning of the term. About 9 years ago I was looking at some full size weanlings and the guy told me if you buy the colt bring him back when he drops and we will cut him for you



Are there, could there be still some of the old time horse traders that do this?!?


----------

