# Progressive Roach back?



## BM Miniatures (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi all,

My gelding has a roach back, last year you could hardly notice it.

I clipped him out yesturday and was shocked as it was sticking up and you can see each vertebrea were the roach is.

I was driving him the otherday for the first time in along time and he was very hard to get going and he is usually very forward, more so when he hasnt been worked in awhile.

So now I think his back might be giving him problems?

Is a roach back progressive?

Am I going to end up with a crippled horse in pain? :no:

He is a very special boy to me, I will be getting the vet out to come have a look.

Thanks

Amy


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## Jill (Sep 11, 2007)

Amy --

Can you post current pictures of your horse?

What I'm wondering is if he is actually underweight. They can have "big" bellies and still be under weight.

I purchased a mare last year and when she arrived, she "looked" roach backed and she had a belly sort of, but I could tell looking at her she was too thin. However, I think there'd be a good percentage of mini people who would not have realized she was too thin.

Once we got weight on her, she no longer looked roach backed at all (in fact, I showed her to a halter grand championship).

One thing that is supposed to be especially good to get weight over the back is beet pulp. I didn't use this with my mare (just extra senior feed, but the brand I use doesn't contain beet pulp).

Good luck,

Jill


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## kaykay (Sep 11, 2007)

How old is your horse? Roach backs do sometimes get worse with age. I have also seen horses get injured and develop this after the injury.

I do agree with jill that sometimes being underweight can make it look like a roach when its not but you said he had it last year? A true roach back will be a convex on top or arched up like a dome on the back. While an underweight horse will be just the back bone sticking up in a straight line across the back.

I would not drive a roach backed horse. Driving a roach backed horse will cause more problems and pain.


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## Jill (Sep 11, 2007)

kaykay said:


> A true roach back will be a convex on top or arched up like a dome on the back. While an underweight horse will be just the back bone sticking up in a straight line across the back.


I did not know that, Kay. That is good to know and I will have that in mind going forward. Thanks






_and since I've learned my thing of the day, can I go back to bed _ :bgrin


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## BM Miniatures (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi Guys, this is an arch that sticks up.

Here is a photo of him from last year, I will try get a current one tomorrow.

Its not a very good photo but you might beable to see what I mean.






I can only just feel his ribs at a dig so I dnt think he is underweight and the spine only sticks out were the roach is, the rest of his spine is covered.


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## StellaLenoir (Sep 11, 2007)

I am really interested in learning what a roach back is exactly. I have done some research online. Most of the info I have seen is in big horses and is very severe cases. They really look like camels. A normal look from the withers to just before the hip where there is a dramatic hump then normal to the tail head area. (this may not be the best most correct description but the best I can explain it)

I have a mare, just foaled on Aug 5th of this year. Her spine is very straight, but sticks up just a bit. Then dips just at her loin area. No hump. It started a while before she foaled. Otherwise she seems a good weight. I think I read on anouther older post that some mares will pull down around thier spine around foaling time due to the weight of the baby. I hope this is the cause of my girls problem. The vet never said any thing about her back when he was out for the pre or post foaling exam. But of coarse I worry



:

I an not going to breed her or her daughter or son that we have. She came in foal and we are counting the days till we can snip our colt. But I wonder if there are very 'light' cases of roach back.


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## kaykay (Sep 11, 2007)

yes that would be a roached back in the picture. Because he has so much white its harder to see. sometimes when you feel the spine of these horses you can feel a zig zag in the spinal cord. It got its name from the shape of it similar to the back of a cockroach. I think its a good idea to get your vet out and see if he should maybe stop driving and see if it has indeed progressed. Sending good thoughts!

Heres a mare we took in cmhr with a roached back and had that zig zag to it. She was a minimal expression dwarf






Sheila-

Alot of mares do look quite different while carrying a foal. the weight of the foal can pull the back down or just pull the surrounding areas down. The last couple months especially can be hard on a mares body. I do watch these mares very close after they foal as its been my experience that these are the ones that can drop weight quickly with the foal nursing


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## hobbyhorse23 (Sep 11, 2007)

I can't see the pictures here at work, so I won't comment on your particular horse. I just want to put out there for general consideration that sometimes a horse can throw their back out and require a chiropractor's assistance to put it back in working order. My Kody's back seemed a bit rounded to me when I first got him, like he was standing sort of hunched over even when he wasn't. After awhile it occurred to me that perhaps I should try a chiropractor and after her first visit his entire posture changed. His back sunk down into a straight line, he stood straighter and more at ease, and for the first time he started using his tail instead of keeping it clamped. Ever since if he suddenly starts having trouble with his driving (bobbing his head, not tracking up, not wanting to move forward) I call the chiropractor and it always turns out he's out somewhere. As soon as he is adjusted his behavior improves, and the tell-tale lump in his lower back goes away as well. He does look roachbacked though when he's out, as he stands hunched over from the pain and his spine becomes prominent. Just something to consider if a previously sound horse suddenly starts not wanting to move forward in harness and you feel it's related to their back.

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 11, 2007)

I am not sure that is a roach back- the roach backed horses I have known have been big horses but the roach starts at the withers- well, just behind them, not at the dip in the back like this one.

This looks like a scoliosis to me- which is definitely progressive, I will see what I can find on it in horses and get back here.

Nope, sorry, can't find any info but have found enough to indicate that this falls within the description of "roach back"

It is however a severe one and if it is getting worse i do think you need a Vet's advice on this, or, if possible, a chiropractor


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## wiccanz (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi Amy

That's the horse that Vanessa May used to own and drive, right?

If so, I doubt very much it is a roach back (doesn't look like it to me). She drove him competitively without a problem, although that was a few years back. Is it possible he has injured himself in the paddock? Or has developed some other complaint? The way he is standing suggests he is uncomfortable in his loins/hindquarters.

Either way, a visit from the vet and/or chiro will hopefully be of some help to him.

ETA could also be some other source of pain or discomfort internally, making him hunch up.


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## Marty (Sep 12, 2007)

Looks like a backwards or inverted roach back to me.

Scoliosis also could be the culprit. I know that is treatable with steriods and chiropractic because I had one come in from Hurricane Andrew like that, but not sure if it's curable

Regardless, this horsey is swelled up big time and could even be a disk. I think he needs an expert dignosis. Can you bring him in for X rays anywhere? Good luck to you both. This is a really nice horse!


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## BM Miniatures (Sep 12, 2007)

Hiya,

Yes that could be an idea, will chat to our vet about getting some x-rays done. We have a chiropractor coming to see him in the weekend, this guy knows his stuff and is very good, so hopefully he can shed some light!


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 12, 2007)

Brilliant, well done- I love it when people care like this!!


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## Jill (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm happy you're going to have the vet out. That picture doesn't show what I think of as roach back, but doesn't look like a "normal" situation, either. Good luck and let us know what the vet thinks.


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## bfogg (Sep 12, 2007)

He is telling me his entire back is out! Including up into the neck area.

I can tell you he is in serious pain. Thank goodness you have the chirpractor coming out for him.

he is a lucky to have landed with someone who will get it fixed.

Good luck

Bonnie


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## BM Miniatures (Sep 12, 2007)

bfogg said:


> He is telling me his entire back is out! Including up into the neck area.
> 
> I can tell you he is in serious pain. Thank goodness you have the chirpractor coming out for him.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks Bonnie!

he has never shown any "pain" until now with being "sticky" to drive, We got him gelded and that was the only other time he showed he was really owchie....but I know horses are good at masking pain unless they really can't help it!

I will get him sorted ASAP!~

Will let you all know how I get on!

Cheers

Amy

I feel so bad.....I have alwaysed noticed, even when he was a stallion he never runs around, the most he did was walk up and down the fence. I have never seen him do anymore than that......i feel so terrible that I have been driving him!!!! :no:


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## Katiean (Sep 12, 2007)

Amy,

There was nothing you could do if this little begger was hiding his pain. My mom had a yorkie that NEVER showed any sigh of illness. One day she walked across the living room and fell over. We rushed her to the vet and found that for a long time she had a double hart murmer that she had for a very long time. with meds she only lived 3 more months. She passed about 15 minutes before my mom got home from work. I guess what I am trying to say is that these little guys want to take care of us so they will hide what is bothering them until they can't hide it anymore. Sometimes by then it is too late. God bless them.


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## BM Miniatures (Sep 14, 2007)

Hi Guys,

Had the back guy over today, his back is fine, no pain nothing.

He thinks there may be somthing going on internally that is pushing his spine up like that so we are getting our equine specialist vet $$$$$$$$$$$ to come and check him out.

He is very bloated all the time and his sides are hard so the back guy thinks there is somthing going on inside that belly....

Vet will be around tomorrow hopefully!

Thanks

Amy


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## mininik (Sep 14, 2007)

Like people, horses all react differently to pain. I live with a reversed curvature of the vertebrae in my neck. Although I'm not always in pain from it, certain activities do stress me out. I have no doubt there is pain at least sometimes for your horse, for whatever reason his back is like it is. I know you are taking care of it, I just wanted to point out that not all horses will show pain the same way or at all, but that doesn't mean it's less intense or not there.

I'll be looking forward to updates.


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## Jill (Sep 14, 2007)

I've been thinking about your guy. I hope things will go okay and there's an answer and a treatment that's as easy as possible. Maybe the vet will be able to ultrasound and get an idea of what is going on internally. Times like this, it's hard not to wish they could talk and say what they feel is wrong.

Animals do show pain differently, though. My shih-tzu, Winston, has needed bladder stone surgery 2x and each time, had stones caught in his uretha (sp?), which is supposed to be excrutiating. Well, he was running around, playing, wearing his happy face. Only indication that anything was wrong has been we noticed he was straining to pee. On the other hand, if he has a toe nail crossed (if we let them get too long), he will not move an inch and hold his paw up or lay down and stay where he is until I uncross it for him.

It's so hard to know with animals sometimes.


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## Debby - LB (Sep 18, 2007)

Any update on this little guy since the Vet was to be out Friday? I am very interested in the diagnosis.


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## Charlotte (Sep 18, 2007)

We had a colt that looked just like that. He arrived at our farm in N Illinois with a slightly roach look to his back...after a long trailer ride. by 6 months later it had become quite pronounced. He never moved freely either. We called in an equine chiropractor who worked on him and made improvement the first treatment. We followed his recommendations on a few days of stall rest after each treatment and by the 4 th treatment he was moving well and not roached looking. The horse never had any more problems after that.

I hope your boy improves also.

Charlotte


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## BM Miniatures (Sep 21, 2007)

Hi Guys

We will be booking him in for an ultra sound.

Will get it done next week hopefully.


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## Jill (Sep 21, 2007)

Keeping him and you in my thoughts. He is lucky to have you as his person.


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## HGFarm (Sep 21, 2007)

Good luck and keep us posted. Poor guy and it is so frustrating when they cant tell you what is going on. Hope it is nothing serious and they can help whatever is going on.


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## Just Us N Texas (Sep 21, 2007)

My intuition tells me it may be kidneys.


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## Debby - LB (Sep 21, 2007)

Just Us N Texas said:


> My intuition tells me it may be kidneys.


Could you elaborate on this? Is it something you've seen before? if so can you tell us other symptoms to look for if it is kidney problems, and the treatment involved?..... or are you meaning _he's telling you it's his kidneys_?


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