# Dwarf advert



## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 16, 2015)

Amazon have used a mini dwarf in their new advert. This is setting all the horsey people off in a flood of awwww where can I get one type comments. Doesn't really do much for the miniature horse breed does it


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## MiniNHF (Nov 17, 2015)

Shows you how much even a big corporation like Amazon doesn't know about dwarfs and just think they are normal cute horses.


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## amysue (Nov 17, 2015)

I have not seen the advertisement but from this post I gather that people are commenting on the "cuteness" and inquiring about purchasing one. That bothers me, mostly because in my own experience, many non horse people have made it clear that they associate ALL minis with dwarves. Often when asked what I do, once I say "miniature horses" I get asked "oh you breed them cute lil pygmy or dwarf horses right? What do they go for?" No matter how much I dumb it down, no matter how adamant I am about the differences in dwarf vs. normal minis, it usually goes right over their heads. Because minis are a mini because of their size, people cannot disconnect that from "dwarf". When I explain the hard work, dedication, attention to genetics and responsibility necessary to breed quality horses, people think I am a "snotty horse person" like "all other horse people". I throw my hands up in disgust and usually walk away. This association by the general public prompted me to get a few Shetlands, which to my knowledge do not carry the same "stigma" as minis, and re branded our business as a "pony" business rather than just minis. Made a world of difference.


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## Debby - LB (Nov 17, 2015)

I don't think I've seen it, d o you have a link to it?


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## chandab (Nov 17, 2015)

https://youtu.be/_SIebmrlJKw

For those that haven't seen it, it's a foreign Amazon Prime ad


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 17, 2015)

Its causing quite a stir really. My main gripe was about people thinking it was a miniature horse, and wanting one. It has taught me a lot about dwarfisim that i didn't know previously cause i've been looking into it to explain to other horsey people why it is NOT a miniature horse. Think the message is getting through.



chandab said:


> https://youtu.be/_SIebmrlJKw
> 
> For those that haven't seen it, it's a foreign Amazon Prime ad


Its being shown in the UK too, constantly. The pony is from the UK, and i believe the advert is filmed in the UK.


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## Debby - LB (Nov 17, 2015)

OMG that is such a cute commercial! you are right she is most definitely dwarf characteristic. I agree it may be better to show a correct Miniature Horse to the world, but the dwarf issue wasn't my peeve....it was delivering a tiny horse and putting it in a field full of full size horses, that's a no-no in my book.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 17, 2015)

Whilst I don't think that happened in real life (lovey camera tricks) you do bring up a point about introductions.


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## AngC (Nov 18, 2015)

I think the ad is pretty cute. But if you want really cute ads, I think Budweiser still does it best. (...does anyone remember the one with the donkey that wanted to be on the Clydesdale team?)

I guess the animal in the commercial does have some "dwarf-y" characteristics, but I've seen minis that are much more deformed. So I don't understand the comments about publicizing dwarfism. Isn't that a possibility with any mini horse? I have to admit I'm not too fond of the dwarf-look; in fact I was very thankful when Baby popped out with straight legs, good feet, and a non-bulbous forehead.

What I find more disturbing is the suggestion that you can order up your own horse using 1-click.

By the way, the ad may have been made in the UK with a UK horse, but the text within the ad is German.


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## Minimor (Nov 19, 2015)

It is a cute commercial--definitely a dwarfy mini (the horse doesn't even seem to walk properly) and I wasn't impressed that she just put the little horse out with the big horses that way...but it has a happy ending!

AngC - I don't see anything indicating you can buy a horse with 1-click...

it was the large pet door she ordered with 1-click.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 19, 2015)

AngC said:


> By the way, the ad may have been made in the UK with a UK horse, but the text within the ad is German.


Only because it has been shared as a German subtitles. It's quite English and in English on my television. 
The issue is that people think this dwarf is what we, miniature breeders, do. They think we breed deformed tiny "cute" things. We are NEVER going to be taken seriously in the horse world when this animal is our mascot.


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## horsehug (Nov 19, 2015)

Definitely a dwarf. And all we can really do is educate educate educate. I have explained about dwarfism to many many people over the years and some get it and some do not. But I commend all of you who are trying. Keep up the good work.


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## orin (Nov 20, 2015)

This is filmed in the UK using a UK horse that I believe had American breeding.

It is causing quite a stir over here too.

Of all the healthy good examples of miniature horses Amazon chose to use a dwarf of what is causing the friction over here with people then thinking that a dwarf of a good buy


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 20, 2015)

Yes I know his lines


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## AngC (Nov 20, 2015)

Minimor said:


> AngC - I don't see anything indicating you can buy a horse with 1-click...
> 
> It was the large pet door she ordered with 1-click.


oh geez, shove me down the stupid chute. I suck at figuring out commercials.

I would never saw a hole in any of our doors to install a pet door to allow horses in the house, even if we could find a door on Amazon that was large enough to accommodate their fat asses. That was an advertisement, but do people really bring their minis into the house? ???


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## chandab (Nov 21, 2015)

AngC said:


> oh geez, shove me down the stupid chute. I suck at figuring out commercials.
> 
> I would never saw a hole in any of our doors to install a pet door to allow horses in the house, even if we could find a door on Amazon that was large enough to accommodate their fat asses. That was an advertisement, but do people really bring their minis into the house? ???


Some people do actually bring them in the house and some for more than a quick visit or a foal that needs warming up.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 21, 2015)

Mine are always in the house. It's my party trick haha


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## amysue (Nov 21, 2015)

I brought my morgan in the house when I was a kid....but I come from a broken home so, I never really had parental supervision. Christopher Robyn liked coming inside, he used to watch tv. Of course now, as a responsible (sort-of) adult, I realize how lucky I was that he did not get hurt or fall through the floor! I wouldn't install a doggy door either, I would end up with raccoons, opossums and skunks in the house, never mind every barn cat. I put a colt in our stand up shower once too, he needed a bath and it was too cold outside. What a mess that was.


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## chandab (Nov 21, 2015)

My mom told me that grandma brought her mare in the kitchen one day when she was a kid, grandpa wasn't thrilled; don't recall the why, but probably just because she could.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 21, 2015)

Haha I think a miniature would be the biggest allowed in the house! My big horse would have totally came in though if asked.


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## BSharpRanch (Nov 21, 2015)

My cousin many years ago, raiding the ice box with Sparky!


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 21, 2015)

banner in the house


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## Magic Marker Minis (Nov 21, 2015)

We've brought our minis in the house a few times. We've even put them in a Ford Explorer and Focus.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 21, 2015)

I'm so tempted to put my mini in my mini (Car)....


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## horsehug (Nov 21, 2015)

I have hauled lots of different ways but this was the tiniest vehicle I took this little one in



And it was just about 20 miles


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## Kim P (Nov 22, 2015)

This is our Peanut. We were told that he was raised inside with a German shepherd. The man we bought him from had him outside and I have never brought him inside. I think he would come in if I wanted him to.


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## paintponylvr (Nov 22, 2015)

We raised our first shetland foal as an orphan due to her dam not accepting her. When she came home from the vet clinic after her 1st 48 hours of life, she wasn't regulating her temperature well and weather was projected to be bad for a while (MT blizzard in late May). We took her right into the house and she rode back and forth to "day care" with my kids. For 20 days, until she wouldn't stay laying down in the front passenger floor of the mini truck I had then.

Pic dad brought to me @ work w/ my 3 daughters the day Stuffy was born. They had named her... Chicka Chicka Boom Boom... after a toddler's alphabet song/book that was popular then...I had both the cassette tape (played a lot for the girls - they could sing the whole thing and recite the alphabet after) and the book.






By that afternoon when I got off work, it was pretty obvious that the foal may not have ever nursed - the mare kept knocking her down by pawing/striking whenever she got up, her bag was full & dripping. The foals' gums were pink but capillary refill time was sluggish, her eyes were "glued shut" w/ mucous from the wind where the mare kept knocking her down out in the paddock instead of letting her into the shelter, she was dehydrated (skin on neck stayed up/stuck together when pinched). I milked the mare into my hands (squalling, kicking when I did that, LOL) and carefully put it into the babies mouth and she swallowed. I did the back and forth thing for a while (dad & the girls weren't home & house was a LONG ways away from where I was in the pen w/ the mare/foal). It was obvious the foal had a will to live, so down to the neighbors I went. He allowed me to call the vet clinic (I didn't know the number yet) while hooking up his trailer, then we got the mare in and I held the foal on my lap in the trailer and bounced around with the pair... The vet gave her a 25% chance of living and I said, well, if you can do a couple of payments, Lets see what we can do. It wasn't cheap - but was much cheaper then than now. AND she did have a strong will to live. We did start out by milking out the mare - the vet said that she had nursed the foal at least once but that the immune transfer was really low. We did a blood transfusion on the foal & not sure what all else - since she stayed at the clinic and I didn't.









Of course, it helped that we'd just moved into the house and still didn't have our household goods (hubby was also overseas or it probably wouldn't have happened) that had a large enough kitchen/laundry room w/ linoleum w/ small entry ways into the hallway and the living room. That meant baby/dog gates worked to keep her in the kitchen! She slept on a baby mattress from one of the girls' cribs that I still had at the time. And we bottle/bowl fed her literally every 2-4 hours!! OMG, I got tired!!









Her sire and her dam were pastured out on my parents place and she was born there - 32 miles from the town I lived in. When she went to "day care" - she went back to parents place but she stayed in the camping trailer (an old one w/ lots of linoleum, too) on a bed of horse blankets and saddle pads. While the bad weather was "blowing" and the temps well below freezing, she wore not 1 but 2 of the toddler sweat shirts. The neck opening and arms worn "normal" on the 1st (pic of that) & then a 2nd w/ her tail thru the neck hole and hind legs thru the arms - w/ the 2 sweat shirts safety pinned together at the bottom hems. At 20+ days of age, when the bad weather had cleared and we couldn't easily transport her back and forth any more, she was moved back out to the pen she was born in - next to her sire. She got a big mineral lick tub (she often curled up in it - yuck), and got fed several times a day - feed soaked in mares milk replacer. She had free access to good quality alfalfa and grass hay (she nibbled) and her little bucket of milk were kept full - all the time... Other than being handled more than any other foal - she was treated like a horse and got halter trained after she went out to the pen. She thrived...

Here "Stuffy" (chicka boom didn't "stick" - though our youngest daughter NOW has a dog w/ that name!!) is with her 4th foal and our granddaughter (Skye's oldest) in 2013 - Grace was 2 1/2 yrs then. Over the years, Stuffy has been a family riding, parading, swimming, lesson giving, driving and mama pony EXTRAORDINAIRE, and I've never regretted giving her a chance at life or all the messes we cleaned up those first 20 days!!






We still own "Stuffy" and she is now 19 1/2 years old!

All that said - here in our previous house while raising foals - it wouldn't work to bring them in. BUT we did have a carport attached to the house right outside our kitchen door with dog kennels in it and we DID use that for both foaling out some mares, keeping mares w/ new foals that actually foaled out in the pastures in for a few days & a couple of times we put in sickly foals/ponies that we were treating - easier to do when right there at the house - especially in bad weather.

Here in this new house - it would take some work to put a foal in the kitchen. Hubby probably would be UNHAPPY, shoot, i might be, too. Might be just as easy/easier to put them under the carport in a dog kennel again... Though this set up is different than the last, think I could make that work better. We'll see - you just never know what's gonna happen when you have baby animals and I have several maiden mares pregnant for next year - EARLY...

******

As to the Ad - it makes me sad to see. It took me a couple of viewings before I caught that it was an ad for a large "doggy door" - not an ad for the little horse. BUT like other things, I can see why people are upset. I agree - terrible that they are using a dwarf as a representative of miniature horses. There are so many others that may have been better... BUT then, LOOK - here's a great way for all mini/pony owners to educate newcomers to the breed about the bad things that can happen with poor breeding practices and dwarf genetics.

I was upset when a dwarf in much worse shape (stronger dwarf characteristics - a weanling/yrling that I don't know if would have continued to live) than this fellow was put on display & offered for sale privately at an auction I regularly attend at least once a year (it's held 2x - in the spring and at Thanksgiving). He was with a farm that always attends that auction (one of the big supporters, I think) PLUS has lots of stuff they do with the public in OH where their farm/produce market/bakery is located. I didn't catch if this guy had come from their breeding of if he came from another situation (he may have?). I do know that he sold and went home w/ a new owner. I was PO'd that they profited from that little guy. I could only hope that he went home w/ someone that already knew about Dwarfism and could deal with any and all health issues that he will have...





It was seeing that a couple of years ago that made me go out and start researching the info - here and elsewhere on the net. It was VERY educational for me. Still makes me mad, though.


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## AngC (Nov 22, 2015)

WOW. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one; i.e., bringing a horse inside. I enjoyed the photos, especially Sparky checking out the refrigerator. But...

I guess our house is too small or maybe our horses are too boisterous. I really can't picture any of them in the house. There's too many things they could hurt themselves on. I mean if the sky was falling and some sort of dire something happened (what... I can't even imagine) well yeah, then I would bring one or all in the house, but as a routine thing or an experiment, I just can't envision it. Even when Baby was a baby, it never entered my mind to bring her in the house. Although, we did go sleep in the barn. ...hauled a couple sleeping bags out and put them on a thick bed of straw in Nicky's stall. It was pretty comfy actually... a lot softer than camping. Nicky wasn't too thrilled, but one of my best memories is waking up with Nicky's nose a foot from my face and Baby suckling in the next stall.


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## BSharpRanch (Nov 23, 2015)

When we were kids we were given a sickly day old bull calf by our uncle that raised Herefords. Mom stopped at an appliance store to get a huge box, then picked up some straw and medication. That calf lived in the space in the hallway where the dryer would have been. (My mom loved hanging her clothes on a line to dry!) As Wally gained strength us kids had to walk him and since it was too cold and wet out, we walked him through the house, my brother with the lead, I was the keeper of the coffee can! Yup, I had THE most important job of all, catching solids and liquids! I don't remember how long Wally was in the house, I know it was quite a while because of the cold and damp. He was such a cool pet!

And a side to above...just because money changes hands doesn't mean there is profit. Unless it is an insane amount like tens of thousands. JMTCW


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## Kim P (Nov 24, 2015)

Oh Paula, I loved Stuffy's story! Loved the pictures too!

BSharp, great story and I agree that you had the most important job!


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## paintponylvr (Nov 24, 2015)

KIm - Hehehe, yea, that was pretty special - it was touch and go for a while. Didn't know if she'd make it or not. She got the name "stuffy" as there was a road that cut thru my parents property (it was supposed to be a development with each "lot" being 20-30 acres) and her pen was on the opposite side from the house and main barn - closest to the road. While I was there and even now - 20 yrs later- most of them are still empty/not built on - which makes it nice. There were several people that stopped by and asked about that little stuffed animal in the pen! The nick name "stuck"...

Bsharp - You are right. For one, I don't know that he sold for what he was advertised at (not a small amount at all - especially when many of the minis at that sale routinely sell for $50... or did). Two - they may have sold him less than what they advertised him at. Three - they may have had lots of dollars into him already in medical bills - I don't know. I do know that the little guy generated a HUGE amount of walk-thrus thru their area at the sale barn. They always have the same area - and always have a large group of horses for sale - some registered, most handled and/or trained to ride/drive, all fat and shiny. AHHHH - but they are sale horses and they aren't always what they seem, LOL. I've seen both good and bad from that farm and I've also seen good and bad at that sale. NOT every Amish horse owner knows how to care for and train horses, nor fit them either. I think the term is "Caveat Emptor" - buyer be -a- ware.








= AngC - I think for every animal owner, ranch/farm owner you'll find a 50/50 split. Some will have a baby animal up in the bunkhouse, a line shack or even the main ranch house. Others will draw a line and that line is simple - all livestock - indeed all animals (including dogs/cats) - live in the barn and the barn only. Sometimes that was stated by the man of the house and sometimes by the woman. It really varies. I have known of families that could do "miracles" with baby orphaned and/or injured animals. They'd nurse them back to health and they'd either return to nature or they'd be back in the barnyard. I haven't a clue how some folks can raise some animals in the house.

Our "Stuffy" wasn't in the house long or much when you really think about it (she spent almost as much time in the cab of my truck as in the house itself). I'm glad I was only in my 30's then, I can't really imagine doing now what I did then. When I was a teenager, our neighbor w/ a 15 acre farmette had a sow with piglets. She kept pushing the one away - so he gave her to us. Well, the sow, in this case, was doing the right thing. There was something wrong with the piglet - our vet said we should just care for her as long as she lived (and later I understood he didn't expect it to be long). She actually live much longer than anyone expected - got to the point where she'd recognize my voice when I got home from school and called her out (like a dog) - she'd come squealing and running and would go out to go "potty" and roll around and play. I think she lived about a month... She never came close to the growth of her siblings, let me tell you. She was teeny, tiny! But she had her box w/ daily clean shredded paper, a blankie and a warm light over it. She got fed what ever baby piglets get fed (from a bottle though). She did have an aroma, but it certainly wasn't bad. Rosy was quite endearing in her own little piggy way. When she passed, she was neither processed nor "thrown away" - but was buried in the plot of land that our favored family dogs and cats were...

I LOVE THE STORY ABOUT THE CALF!! That's awesome! Think that Chanda also has a few stories that are similar.

And yes, I treasured time spent in the straw at the feet of my horses and ponies. You learned over the years who you could safely/comfortably sleep with and who you couldn't. I remember both long COLD nights and nights that were quite toasty warm - spent out in the barn "just 'cuz" or waiting for that new baby or dealing with a sick or injured horse. I have pics of my children (mostly the youngest) sleeping with/on the ponies, and with cats/dogs. Not surprisingly - everyone in our family puts up with dogs and cats stealing the covers on any given night - and the "owned ones" will sometimes switch rooms!


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## chandab (Nov 24, 2015)

paintponylvr said:


> )
> 
> I LOVE THE STORY ABOUT THE CALF!! That's awesome! Think that Chanda also has a few stories that are similar.


Most of our calves stay out at the barn. Shayne used to bring sickly ones into the bath tub to warm them up, still does on occasion (if they are really bad), but most do quite well in the calf warmer box that is out in the tack building by the calving barn. I'd rather trek down to the barn, then have them track into the house, if at all possible. When we only had two dogs (the two we brought into the marriage, both are gone now); the calves spent time in the fenced garden spot that is now the dog run by the house.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 29, 2015)

Just for the record the little one was never actually loose in the field with the Friesans, there was hotwire between them at all time. If you can show me a 22" fully grown mini that is not a dwarf then I guess Amazon could have used it instead of Acer (who is by and out of imported American stock, btw) Since there is not a 22" "perfect" Mini around they went with this option. He was Vetted and pronounced fit for the work,. a Vet was on location all day. The Ad has broken all records for Amazon , hit wise. The Ad has nothing to do with Miniature Horses and is in no way promoting dwarfs.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Nov 29, 2015)

I have to disagree. I've had loads of people post the video to my Facebook and say this is the same as your ponies or when they see me say have you seen the advert with the little pony like yours. Many people DO think he is a proper miniature horse.

But it is raising awareness because for every person who asks I tell them about the condition and show them the difference. So in a way it is promoting miniatures as a whole.


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## amysue (Nov 29, 2015)

While I do not believe that the ad was intended to promote or advertise dwarf minis, I do feel that the public's response to the ad does drum up interest in dwarf horses. The ad was for Amazon, implying that they ship quickly and that you can find almost anything on their site. The mini was just part of the show, meant to grab viewer's attention. It is the comments that people keep making on social media that promote intetest in dwarfs. I dont blame amazon, I dont blame anyone really but it does frustrate me when people assume all minis are dwarfs.


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## AngC (Dec 1, 2015)

rabbitsfizz said:


> ...If you can show me a 22" fully grown mini that is not a dwarf then I guess Amazon could have used it instead of Acer (who is by and out of imported American stock, btw)


Those darn Americans!





I thought the potential for dwarfism exists in all (most?) miniatures. Or is it just the US breeding?


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## amysue (Dec 1, 2015)

Good question Ang. They are "American Miniature Horses"


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 1, 2015)

It is found in shetlands and other breeds too, so it is not an "american" thing. Its caused by inbreeding which used to be very prevalent in miniatures - maybe still is. I blame it on the fact there is no AI available so many mini breeders simply had not got a large enough gene pool and used their best animals hoping for better animals and got dwarves. I think if it is less so in UK miniatures (as in british miniature horses, not british bred american miniatures) because of the fact it is easier to get to other breeders. UK is the size of some states.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 1, 2015)

Dwarfism I think actually came into American Minis from the imported stock, I know a lot of UK Shetlands had dwarfism at one point but it was achondroplasic not brachiocephalic. It is not relevant where it started as there is now a test and everyone should really be testing their horses now? Acer was an accident and three days after his birth his sire, who was imported not as a stallion but as a show horse/pet, was gelded and there will be no more "accidents" as there are no stallions on the place now. I am not sure that dwarfism is caused by inbreeding, in fact I am sure it is not as I am technically a dwarf myself and I can assure you I am not inbred. In dogs there are all sorts of issues that cause dwarfism. I have never heard of inbreeding being one. Of course if you breed a Min carrying dwarfism to another who happens to be a full sister, say, then by coincidence you are doubling up on the chances of a dwarf foal, but not by genetics. The situation in the UK is the same as in the States- I wonder why you would think it was different? Each breeder has their own stallion- few stallions stand at public stud, so that remark is neither helpful nor relevant. The fact remains that this ad is getting small horses noticed. Very few people are asking where they can get a dwarf as very few are aware he is one. Were they to contact Acers owner they would get the same reply you are giving" This is NOT a good representative of the breed, he is a dwarf and has many ongoing health problems that have cost me a small fortune. If you want a Miniature Horse there are many good studs around selling perfect quality animals" I repeat, this is not representing or promoting dwarfs as pets.


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## Minimor (Dec 1, 2015)

Miniature horse dwarfism is caused by a mutation (or several mutations, since there are multiple forms of dwarfism in Minis)--and I don't think there is any evidence that inbreeding causes any mutation. Certainly inbreeding will cause the dwarfism to show up if you are using dwarf carriers for your program of inbreeding. Given the way horses are bought, sold and moved around the country, limited availability of different bloodlines is not an issue in the US and Canada, even if our two countries cover vast areas of land.

Given how many people have viewed this ad I have not had a single person ask me if I have "one like this" nor have I had any comments that compare my Minis to this little horse in the ad. Rabbits fizz is right--no one sees this and then starts looking for a dwarf--because unless they know minis they do not know he is a dwarf --they just see a cute little horse that is depicted in a cute situation...a house horse. The ad is about the ease of buying off amazon.com not about mini horses. Bottom line is they are not promoting the breeding and selling of dwarfs.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 1, 2015)

That's what I mean, it's prevalent in minis because there is so much inbreeding it didn't CAUSE it it caused the amount of it. Human and equine dwarfism is different apparently.

It's nice you have not had the same amount of comments about it that I have. My fb sale page is full of minis suddenly. I wish I could find the ad online I saw for a breeder who sells the dwarf ones on purpose... I don't quite think you believe that this happens.


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## Minimor (Dec 1, 2015)

Rocklone--your earlier post said dwarfism is caused by inbreeding. That is an incorect statement. Not trying to argue--I am simply trying to make sure people get correct information. Perhaps you did not mean it the way it sounded--but that's how it came across. I don't even think that "back when" there was really so much in breeding--the problem was that a number of dwarf horses were used for breeding--Tiny Tim is perhaps one of the better known ones but he wasn't the only dwarf that got into the Mini breeding world. So, you get a number of horses that have a dwarf parent, sell them all over the country (and they were perhaps smaller so were in demand)--they might not all have the same dwarf mutation but it seems mixing and matching mutations can still result in a dwarf...and then you have a problem even if your available gene pool isn't so small. (Believe me, America's size has never stopped cross country horse sales, not even years ago) People hauled all over the country to show, even years ago.) You mention AI offering a wider pool but in actual fact AI can make a few stallions popular and eliminate others completely from the gene pool. Anyway...

It doesn't matter if you breed a dwarf carrier stallion to his dwarf carrier sister or if you breed that same stallion to a dwarf carrier mare of completely different breeding--your chances of getting a dwarf are the same either way. Either cross gives you a 25% chance of getting a dwarf and 50% chance of getting a carrier, with a 25% chance of getting a non carrier.

To be honest--I do not even see all that much inbreeding in the Miniatures. Line breeding is rare enough. Here in Canada the majority of breeders are not doing inbreeding; those doing some line breeding are not breeding real tight. American shetlands--there is another matter -- Some ASPC breeders are breeding VERY tight, and they are getting some very nice ponies. They also get a lot of consistancy in their ponies. Dwarfism isn't an issue in ASPC. But--linebreeding and inbreeding is--or should be--a topic separate from dwarfism.


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## Jean_B (Dec 1, 2015)

Minimor is correct. Below is a very simple chart that shows the chances of getting a dwarf. A horse must receive a dwarf gene from BOTH the sire and dam in order to be a dwarf. (for more details - read the dwarf forum established by John Eberth). So.....if you have a mare and a stallion - neither one is a dwarf, but both carry the dwarf gene (in this case, we will say that the "X" chromosome is the dwarf gene) - there is a 25% chance of the foal being a dwarf, a 25% chance it will NOT be a dwarf and will NOT carry any dwarf gene, and a 50% chance that it will not be a dwarf but will carry the dwarf gene.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 1, 2015)

Mmmmmkay I'll step out of this thread now. No point. I only know what I read and I have read two different things now so whatever I'll just forget it all and go back to knowing nothing.


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## AngC (Dec 4, 2015)

Rocklone Miniature Horses said:


> Mmmmmkay I'll step out of this thread now. No point. I only know what I read and I have read two different things now so whatever I'll just forget it all and go back to knowing nothing.


Sounds like some panties got themselves into a wad here, but I appreciate the thread. I learned from this and took a couple small steps forward. ...and learned a couple new words: achondroplasic and brachiocephalic.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 5, 2015)

Not in a wad as you call it. I've just heard two differing statements of fact and opinion and I don't know enough to decide which one is true so I'll not bother. Glad you've become more educated.


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## Vertical Limit (Dec 5, 2015)

Rocklone, you might want to take a look at John Eberth's Dwarf Forum here: http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?/forum/15-dwarfism-in-miniatures/

What these people are trying to tell you is correct. But you can educate yourself by reading this Forum as this man is an expert.

Carol


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## AngC (Dec 14, 2015)

Rocklone Miniature Horses said:


> Not in a wad as you call it. I've just heard two differing statements of fact and opinion and I don't know enough to decide which one is true so I'll not bother. Glad you've become more educated.


I apologize; that was inelegant wording on my part. And I was actually more concerned that the UK lady wasn't upset, because it seems like it might be her horse? ...or maybe I'm misunderstanding that also.

The advertisement showed up on our television in the last week or two. I checked it out with my version of "joe public" -- my husband. His initial reaction was that the ad is "cute." I asked him whether the horse looked "dwarf-y" (...his exposure to dwarf minis was my unrelenting agonizing over whether Baby is a dwarf, because she was born so small.) Initially he said, no he didn't think the horse in the ad was dwarf; but then after viewing the ad a half dozen times, he conceded that the horse might be a tad small. But when you think about it, what does it matter? If I believed everything I saw on television, I'd be a mess.

The ad pretty much has no bearing on reality. The majority of people who view it have no idea what a horse is, much less a dwarf mini horse.

I first started reading about horse genetics, because I was interested in appaloosa spots, roaning, etc. and was wondering whether Baby (blanket appaloosa) would end up looking like her sire/grand-sire (leopard appaloosa.) which is a complicated topic that I still don't fully understand. I wonder whether people may equate horse In-breeding with people in-breeding?


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 14, 2015)

The U.K. Lady does not own the pony she is a friend of the owner I believe but don't hold me to that. I don't think the owner is on this site.


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## lucky seven (Dec 14, 2015)

I've seen this advertisement a few times and compare it to the budweiser commercials, cute but not real. As far as the mini being a dwarf or not, I think all minis need love. It's up to the breeders how many dwarfs are out there.


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## Eagle (Dec 14, 2015)

I understand the alarm of seeing a dwarf on tv but it is true that most people just look at this as a really cute advert. We had a similar problem here on Italian tv where an Insurance company called "hounds" used a weimaraner for their advert. Run for the hills, lol alll the weima owners were screaming blue murder as they are pointers and not hounds but at the end of the day, the gorgeous talking dog helped people remember the advert which is what all good adverts should do.


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## Strangeaddiction (Dec 14, 2015)

I was at a holiday party this weekend and I had many people come up to me asking if I had seen the new Amazon commercial with the miniature horse (since everyone knows I have a mini). I just had to nod and smile saying yes.....



I got tired of trying to explain it.


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## lucky seven (Dec 14, 2015)

On my facebook page I'm always liking photos of horses of all colors and sizes. A friend at work pointed out that she isn't a horse person and doesn't really want to see all those photos. So now I just look and don't "like" anymore. You can't please everyone.


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## amysue (Dec 14, 2015)

lucky seven said:


> On my facebook page I'm always liking photos of horses of all colors and sizes. A friend at work pointed out that she isn't a horse person and doesn't really want to see all those photos. So now I just look and don't "like" anymore. You can't please everyone.


It's your facebook page...like whatever you want, if she doesn't like horses, tell her not to look.


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## AngC (Dec 15, 2015)

I don't know about all of you, but sometimes when I'm "talking/typing" on-line, I forget that the animal under discussion is owned by a real person and is a real animal. And although that little horsey may not adhere to the expectations of some, the horse is still awfully cute. ...obviously, not as cute as our horses (of course.)

And my hat's off in admiration to the owner that was able to monetize a bit on the endeavor. In fact, if anyone needs to hire mini horses for commercials, I have some slightly dirty, really furry (hairy) ones available for hire at the right price. The more I think about it, I really think our horses are "star" material. (... gotta' teach Baby not to eat the camera.)


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## Silver City Heritage Farmstead (Dec 15, 2015)

AngC--I definetly agree with this post of yours. Quite frequently when commenting, people DO forget the humanity that initially sparked the thread.

I know I enjoy reading Misty's Mom's post about her little Josey. I think quite a few folks here would "get there panties in a wad" if such negative things were said about HER baby!

I also agree about the exposure the breed is receiving. Sowhat if we don't agree with the example their using?! How much do you suppose Amazon has invested in this ad? One million dollars? Two? More?? Don't know about any of you, but I won't make that much money in my entire lifetime. So now my breed is having interest sparked for free...THANK YOU AMAZON!!

Think about it, as owners, breeders, handlers, trainers, associations...what is our biggest lament? No new blood (so to speak) coming into horses. Youth groups getting smaller. Shows falling by the wayside for lack of participation. Show and registry costs rising as membership drops.

It's a simple fact of business...you have two options when business falls off if you want to survive. Raise the cost of the product OR increase traffic into your business.

SO WHAT if Amazon used a dwarf in the ad?? I'm using it as an opportunity to do several things. I agree with them when they say "cute little horsey!!" I ask if they might like to know more about "cute little horseys". I normally keep a couple of breed brochures in my pocketbook (with a business card attached) and give them one. I say nothing negative about the "cute little horsey"...PARTICULARLY if they're not horse people. I don't want to kill the spark of interest, I want to fan it! I use the opportunity sparked by the "cute little horsey" ad that has been so conveniently provided to gain interest in the breed and direct it to reputable breeders. "Hook 'em first and educate 'em later" is my pointbof view.

So for me....THANK YOU AMAZON for choosing a miniature horse for your ad


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 15, 2015)

A miniature horse being used is fab that's not the issue. I agree we need to bring more people into the breed to keep it going


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## Minimor (Dec 15, 2015)

I think Drsgons Wish got it exactly right in her above post.

Point is--it is a cute ad. That is what most non-horse people see--a cute ad. They do not know about dwarfs--they really are not Interested in most cases. They see a cute Lil horse and that's all they will remember. It's a little red horse so if they say "that ad has a horse just like yours" they likely think every little red horse looks like any other little red horse....or they might say "a little horse just like yours, except it was red, not black". Look how many owners will say oh your horse looks just like mine....having no clue that yours is a multi champion and theirs is a cute little pet with horrible conformation. I have seen a number of people offended by that comparison. ..all that owner sees is "your horse is the same color as mine" and so they are exactly alike. LOL


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 15, 2015)

Ha ain't that the truth.

A few people have been annoyed by the fact the little horse is being excluded for being different lol

But I've seen loads of people asking for dog doors! They're not really a done thing here


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## lucky seven (Dec 15, 2015)

Recently a friend mentioned that she was looking for a pony/mini companion for her small pony. I mentioned that I had a gelding that was 9 hands that might be available and her response was 36 inches, lol. We are no longer friends as I felt insulted by her answer. My mini isn't show quality, is companion sound but that is what she was looking for. For someone with a small pony I think she is quite ignorant of the breed.


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## amysue (Dec 15, 2015)

I think Dragon's Wish hit the nail on the head. I think the ad is cute, and yes, it has drummed up interest in the breed. In this business you need all of the public exposure that you can get. I have had several calls and had a few people show up here, looking for christmas ponies and one of them did exactly what Minimor said, she saw my 27" pali stud and said "Oh, he looks like the lil guy in the Amazon ad. Is he for sale? My daughter wants one just like that!" I politely told her, "no, he's not quite like that one, nor is he for sale". I sold her a kid's pony instead after explaining that her kids were too big to ride a mini. Last year, people were coming in and asking me if I had any white ones like "Esteban" from the Old Navy commercial for sale. People make me laugh as they are clueless, but the bottom line is that customers with cash in hand came to my farm wanting to buy ponies from me. Yes, I would rather they come to me to make a purchase because they like my horses or hear good things about my work, but whatever gets them here works, as Dragon's Wish said. It's not so much the non-horsey people's reaction to the ad that bothers me, it is the "horsey people" more specifically the "big horsey people" who lump all mini people together, at least that has been my experience. A lot of people think all minis are dwarfs as they do not know the facts, and unfortunately the term "Dwarf Horse" is often used synonymous to "Miniature Horse" in some books and on some websites, including Wikipedia. Instead of coming off as rude or turning people away, I think that I'll take Dragon's Wish's advice and educate second to peaking their interest.


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## Minimor (Dec 15, 2015)

Lucky seven...you lost me. Why did her saying 36 inches offend you? Using inches instead of hands is the generally accepted standard of measurement for minis and small ponies; welsh use hands but minis and American Shetlands is generally inches. I have small equine from 33" up to 44" and I never refer to them in hands. I don't know anyone that does.


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## AngC (Dec 16, 2015)

I find it fascinating when the mini horse "breeders" start talking. ...love it!

I've only been observing this for a few years now, but I think many "breeders" are "out of touch" with their potential customers. It seems to me that the potential customer base consists of other people at the horse show (your horse better be darn good) or other people that resemble me. We stumbled onto the idea of horse ownership. I'd be really curious to know what the typical price for an unregistered mini horse was back in 2011. I suspect we overpaid for Nicky. But it doesn't matter; I was in love with him. He craned his neck up and begged for a treat between the stall bars when I first met him; I know he did it to everyone else, but when he did to me, I fell in love. Price was no object.

Then we ended up buying Coco from a Craigs-List ad; that wasn't my first choice. I checked out "breeders" first (within the four or five states I was willing to drive to for pick-up.) I don't chat about dollars on the internet, but I suspect most "breeders" would blanch at the upper dollar limit I had set for myself. I learned some new terms (private treaty, for example) and after someone trying to pawn off their rescue horses on me (I don't want an ugly horse, come on really? ...not to mention, you shouldn't even be trying to sell your medically-challenged horse to a newbie.) We ended up with Coco and saved a butt-ton of money. She might be a conformational mess. I don't know. I don't care. She had some issues with haltering but she's getting better and better. She's hugely loyal; she'll spend hours out there waiting for us.

If the horse market is shrinking (which I could see happening, due to cost) then wouldn't it make more sense for a "breeder" to lighten up regarding all the elitist issues and pursue the market? I don't know... comments like hands vs. inches, or comments about conformational messes, or?

Sorry, this was off-topic. I guess. Dwarf horses need love too. There I brought it back on-topic.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 16, 2015)

Minimor said:


> Lucky seven...you lost me. Why did her saying 36 inches offend you? Using inches instead of hands is the generally accepted standard of measurement for minis and small ponies; welsh use hands but minis and American Shetlands is generally inches. I have small equine from 33" up to 44" and I never refer to them in hands. I don't know anyone that does.


Nor i. Here ponies are in cms, if they are in hands they are not "quality" ones. shetlands are in inches.

A lot of horse showing is about tradition. I know for a fact here, even the younger judges, respect that. At my last show, one lady (i say lady..she was about 13) had no hat on and the judge, who was only 17 herself, asked her to get one or leave because she was not dressed appropriately lol

I like the tradition.


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## Jean_B (Dec 16, 2015)

lucky seven said:


> Recently a friend mentioned that she was looking for a pony/mini companion for her small pony. I mentioned that I had a gelding that was 9 hands that might be available and her response was 36 inches, lol. We are no longer friends as I felt insulted by her answer. My mini isn't show quality, is companion sound but that is what she was looking for. For someone with a small pony I think she is quite ignorant of the breed.


Huh??? We never refer to minis or ponies that are registered by hands....in fact, we measure to the quarter inch.

Edited: Oops, I see this has already been addressed, but not removing it because I'm befuddled by why this was offensive.


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## paintponylvr (Dec 17, 2015)

On the size topic - i came from a working, full size horse background and it drove me almost literally CRAZY the way mini horse folks not only measure in inches but not even "accurately" (by more than 30 years in the HORSE business - a horse or pony are measured at his withers)... A mini is measured at the last hair of the mane and that can be upwards of 2" in difference in height when compared to the "right way" to measure a horse! Took me a LONG WHILE to realize that there are different ways to do the same thing...

Our Shetlands & Shetland Xs are measured in inches now, but I also do/know the equivalent measurement in hands. I used to deal with mostly big horse folk (H/J and working western backgrounds) and that's the way they want to "hear it"... I have lost sales over something as "insignificant" as inches vs hands - you could see it go "cold" right then and there if a pony size was referenced in INCHES (prospective buyer instantly loses respect/interest in the sale by a person who "obviously knows nothing"). One sale would have been a large one (not only in price for me, but also due to prospective contacts/references due to WHO THE TRAINER WAS), the mare was a TINY "small" at 46" (11.2 hh) in comparison to other small hunter ponies. Most H/J folk want "top of the line" ponies - smalls are up to 12.2 hh (50") and that's literally the height they want to try to get... BUT a good H/J trainer will look at other heights to get ponies that JUMP and will PACK their riders (w/o a lot of guidance from green riders,




). Oh - I did eventually sell the mare above and though not anywhere close to what I'd been looking at, it wasn't a loss for us. A couple of years ago, that same mare sold for $45,000 - however, I'm fairly certain that it MAY have been at a loss for the seller due to the mare having been kept with a trainer for years plus had transport, show care & show fees (big name H/J show circuits from the East Coast down to Florida!) invested in her (if she leased her out for fees as I had, she may not have invested all of that money, I don't know). I didn't have all that at the time I sold her - we'd only shown her at local levels with a daughter that needed the mares level of training at the time, and when she went out to a trainer for more advanced training, I recouped ALL of that $$ by then leasing her to a client of the trainer for 6 months (before the mare was outgrown & returned home - at that time the mare wasn't a "packer" and trainer didn't have another student who could ride her). That mare is officially carded in USEQ (not sure that's the current reference/name) at 11.2 & 7/8 hh and she's known as the "LITTLE PONY WHO CAN" and has quite the following of little people!!! She will be 19 yrs old in 2016, but she is still being shown/used for lessons and does very well.

You learn to adjust your "speak" to match what the person looking, uses. No different than selling yourself to a prospective employer on your job resume!


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## paintponylvr (Dec 17, 2015)

For the record - I showed my hubby, Larry, the video this morning. He saw a small, cute horse. And the Doggie Door that may not be big enough for our 70# pitt mix dog...


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## amysue (Dec 17, 2015)

A lot of interesting points have been made here. First, customs vary from different parts of the world and from one dicipline to another. Big horse people measure in hands, that is just how it is done. Mini and pony people in inches. Second, I do not know if a a horse's quality or image suffers because of how it is measured, that seems more like "operator error" or a matter of preference depending on how the handler was taught in my opinion. I grew up around big horses riding hunt seat at a hunter show barn, and as Paula said, we measured in hands. Later, I began showing Arabs and riding saddleseat (a completely different world than hunters) and once I got into minis, boy did I get schooled. First, I was corrected on calling them "ponies", my trainer said "we call them minis, not ponies, those are taller (even though big horse people understand anything under 14.2 to be a pony). Then I was informed on how to measure and the importance of this because essentially the breed is what it is because of the height. I was schooled on the differences between Association and Registry in regards to A and B minis and the differences between a mini and a shetland (many people do not think they are different).

I still have quite a few big horse clients and students, and while I breed, train and sell minis and shetlands (many of which are doing well at shows) I primarily show the biggies u/s now, so where I may be a bit out of the loop on that end, I still keep up with the trends and try my best to keep up with breed and registry standards. As Rocklone said, much of the horse world is about tradition. Some people take pride in preserving it and work to uphold the standards, while others challenge them. Sometimes change is good and it progresses forward (like all of the work and progress on under understanding dwarfism so breeders can be better informed). There was a time when many breeders only focused on size and some breeders intentionally bred dwarfs to size the horses down, we now know the risks associated with this practice and now some breeders have devoted their entire careers to producing quality horses of small size. Today, emphasis is on producing quality horses, not just tiny ones, and the term "dwarf" stirs up a lot of emotion in people. Again, I do not think that Amazon's ad promotes dwarfism, but the response to the ad does, or at least shows that lots of people do not know a lot about the breed.

I do not feel so strongly about the topic because I am an elitist, on the contrary, I am pretty small-time compared to some of the breeders participating in this forum. I commented originally because it bothers me that so many people (many of them horse people) think that all minis are dwarfs. To me it is like profiling, like saying all muslims are terrorists or all black people are criminals...it is so wrong! I realize that is a leap, and I sincerely apologize if that offends anyone, but that is how I feel based upon my experiences and upon the comments that I have personally received in response to Amazon's ad. It is hard for me to find a balance between relating to my customers and the market in my area in regards to the type of horse produced and the price, and at the same time maintaining my standards of breeding quality offspring and gaining the respect of the equine community (both mini and biggie). Just my opinion.


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## lucky seven (Dec 17, 2015)

I used 9 hands because i used the stick I purchased from Ozark Mountain. My problem with my friend was this, if she wasn't interested that's her right but at least be more diplomatic. She could have just as well said she didn't like his color, personality, or the fact that he's a gelding and she wanted a mare. There are so many ways she could have said she wasn't interested besides saying lol. I guess my skin is way too thin.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2015)

It is interesting to note that, whilst there has been HUGE interest in this ad, not one single person newly asking about Minis has asked for a dwarf- mainly because they are not aware of dwarfism and do not realise this pony is a dwarf. It is also interesting that the breeders in the UK screaming for the blood of his owner are quite happy to answer these queries and, where relevant, fill the orders. Oh and there is now a "knitted"Ad of this ( it is on You Tube, you may have to Google it...) which is adorable but, so far, has not led to anyone believing all Minis are knitted.

Happy Christmas....


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## AngC (Dec 24, 2015)

Hugely off-topic (other than it's Amazon-related) but I've been trying to get us off the DISH network (not only due to cost, but also because I'm sick of downloading that stupid program guide, again and again and again.)

I'm rather liking the Fire-TV doo-hickey.

The weather here sucks; the husband's been bouncing off the walls and driving me nuts. He yells at the horses and bangs on the window and then complains that the little fat beggars are standing out there in the rain/slush looking at the window, waiting for treats.

One 5-dollar 90's vintage climbing movie (from Amazon) put him down for a few hours. ...sigh of relief.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Dec 24, 2015)

Hahaha!! Nothing like a TV babysitter (or hubbysitter as the case may be)


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## REO (Jan 2, 2016)

The girl in the commercial is in my friend list on FB





I would love to know the little guy's breeding, if someone would PM me?


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## AngC (Jan 4, 2016)

REO said:


> The girl in the commercial is in my friend list on FB
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know his breeding, but here's a link to his owner's website:

http://www.wolfscastle.co.uk/

The girl in the commercial is as cute as a button, in my opinion.


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## REO (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh! So the sire came from the USA and the dam is English.

Sure can tell he's very loved!

Thanks


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 6, 2016)

No, Robin sire and Dam both AMHA, although that is not necessarily relevant....


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## REO (Jan 14, 2016)

On the website it had the name of the dam, and it wasn't the mare she bought with the stallion, but a mare of hers (had a British farm name) that he'd bred. Birchwood UK Fancy Colours Is she AMHA? I'm sorry, I didn't realize. Sorry about that!


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Jan 14, 2016)

Yes both AMHA.


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## BBH (Feb 10, 2016)

people not knowing keep sending it to me, i have chosen not to comment too much, does it hurt the breed standard....it sure does.


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## Rocklone Miniature Horses (Feb 11, 2016)

BBH said:


> people not knowing keep sending it to me, i have chosen not to comment too much, does it hurt the breed standard....it sure does.


There is another popular video going about at the moment and a lot of people commenting saying they want one. Worryingly, some seem to have/work with minis and say that they are all this cute and they recommend anyone to get one. No mention that the horse is in fact a dwarf.


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