# Poor Joe..



## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

well not an opinion..but the WRONG opinion..












http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/17/fe...edia-turns-joe/


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## bingo (Oct 17, 2008)

I do not see "Joe" as having been a threat to any campaign and there is nothing wrong with pointing out that he does not even own a small business. He clearly said when he originally asked the question he does not own a business. The McCain campaign took his question and ran with it without checking if he truly was the "one" to use.

No one said he had a wrong opinion. McCain and or his campaign chose to use him over and over and over again which is what brought on everyone taking a closer look at him. Had anyone listened to his original statement to Obama they would have known he was surely not a good example of a small business owner to bring to the table simply due to the fact he is not currently one and has no immediate plans on purchasing his own or starting his own plumbing company vs being a employee.

I personally think they should have used a more appropriate person *as in relevant *when trying to make such a major point. I realize they feel it is a strong point in their campaign a bit more background info and listening could have helped further their point JMO


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## Cathy_H (Oct 17, 2008)

Lesson learned - - Keep your mouth shut when the media is around otherwise you will be cruicified!

What matters here is what Obama told Joe he was going to do "*Take his hard earned money and spread it around*"

Pay heed to some of the comments from that story.



> It's about a socialist stealing from one person who earned something and giving it to someone who didn't earn it. It's legalized theft plain and simple. It's also about the fact that anyone who is successful will be penalized by the government. Those who do remain in business will certainly pass these taxes on to the consumer effectively increasing taxes for those that can afford it the least.
> 
> *The problem is; you can't tax poor people because they don't have any money, and you can't "stick it to the rich" because they'll find a way to beat the system, so who gets stuck with the bill? The average Joe. *
> 
> ...


Obama wants to raise your taxes and to spread the wealth around............ McCain asked Obama, "Why do we have to raise ANYONES taxes right now"? McCain is probably still waiting for the answer!

*Read this again & let it sink in.*



> The problem is; you can't tax poor people because they don't have any money, and you can't "stick it to the rich" because they'll find a way to beat the system, so who gets stuck with the bill? The average Joe.


*I would venture to say that the average Joe is most of us here on this forum!*


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## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

Well..if you smart it shows you what the future holds..I heard of 2 Obama supporters taking another hard Look at the man..good for them!


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## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

Cathy_H said:


> Lesson learned - - Keep your mouth shut when the media is around otherwise you will be cruicified!
> 
> What matters here is what Obama told Joe he was going to do "*Take his hard earned money and spread it around*"
> 
> ...


Sounds good in theory Cathy..I think I couldn't keep my mouth shut..






how do you feel about baking? Prob will need a cake with a file in it in the future!


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## bingo (Oct 17, 2008)

littlesteppers said:


> Well..if you smart it shows you what the future holds..I heard of 2 Obama supporters taking another hard Look at the man..good for them!


Thanks I like to consider myself rather smart. I know what I would like my future to hold and realize it is fundamentally different then your vision for the future.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 17, 2008)

> I would venture to say that the average Joe is most of us here on this forum!


I wish I was but I don't make $250,000. I need to buy more lottery tickets, lol.


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## Pepipony (Oct 17, 2008)

What is bad here is no one , here, has posted what Obama actually said. They are posting what McCain said, was said, and even HE got it wrong. Including what Obama has been saying, and saying and saying again about smal business. Oh ah the media and other fact type sources are saying. IOW, McCain GOT IT WRONG, over and over and over.


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## C G Minis (Oct 17, 2008)

Danielle_E. said:


> > I would venture to say that the average Joe is most of us here on this forum!
> 
> 
> I wish I was but I don't make $250,000. I need to buy more lottery tickets, lol.



Please do not make fun of the people here that DO make 250,000 a year. We do and it is not right that some one from canada ,not from the USA would post that.


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## bingo (Oct 17, 2008)

C G Minis said:


> Danielle_E. said:
> 
> 
> > > I would venture to say that the average Joe is most of us here on this forum!
> ...


Wow that was a pretty far stretch!

Making fun of???

If nothing else these threads have shown me how so many people *self included* have a tendency see and hear what we want to not what is really being said.


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## McBunz (Oct 17, 2008)

Posting what??????? There is something wrong with saying that we would all like to be raking in 250,000 a year..

Shame on all of us.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

I am gonna tell you One thing..if Obama will be elected..many, many people will NOT make 250 000

Not because they can't..But because they will NOT..why work hard and give it away??


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## bingo (Oct 17, 2008)

littlesteppers I get that you are not fond of Obama but those are simply not the facts


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## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

I am sorry you got that impression Bingo..I voted for Obama in EVERY POLL..


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## C G Minis (Oct 17, 2008)

I am sorry but we work some times 7 days a week, 12 hours in the day to have what we have and to have the goverment take it away to share the wealth does not sit well with us. Let them work like we work instead of sitting on there behinds waiting for our wealth. let them seek there american dream not take mine.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 17, 2008)

C G Minis said:


> Danielle_E. said:
> 
> 
> > > I would venture to say that the average Joe is most of us here on this forum!
> ...



Is there a language barrier between what I say and what you are reading????



. or are you just bating people??? Since the "Joe" that asked Obama some questions, the same "Joe" the plumber that McCain refers to I think I recall that "Joe" was concerned about "buying a plumbing business" and how he couldn't afford to do so because of taxes being raised by Obama. I am pretty sure Obama said his plan is to raise taxes on people who make more that $250,000. The comment that the average "Joe" will be taxed, as many of you have stated means that you refer to the average Joe in this forum must make $250,000 a year. I was commenting that I wasn't part of that since I didn't make $250,000 and I doubt that the average forum member (single salary, not combined with spouse) makes $250,000 per year. I wasn't making fun or laughing at anyone that makes $250k or more but did think the statement made was pretty far fetched. So shoot me for having an opinion Seems I don't have a right in this forum anymore because I am not American. I must go read the rules again that govern this forum where it says non-Americans are not allowed to post opinions or only their opinion on certain threads. I must of missed that when I joined the forum many many years ago.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

Well we are talking about Joe the plumber..and if you have hired a plumber lately you might just know what they charge..IF Joe the plumber would have just One BIG contract a year..you don't think he would make 250 000? especially if he had a few empoyees..

Lincoln quote..

Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Reply to New York Workingmen's Democratic Republican Association" (March 21, 1864), pp. 259-260.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 17, 2008)

> QUOTE I would venture to say that the average Joe is most of us here on this forum!





> I wish I was but I don't make $250,000. I need to buy more lottery tickets, lol.



FOLKS, FOLKS, open your eyes & clean out your ears - Canadian or otherwise.

*Joe the plumber DOES NOT MAKE $250,000*.......



................... I heard $90,000 from one source of which out of that he pays $20,000 in federal taxes plus other taxes.......... I also read here on the forum that it was $40,000................... *Irregardless IT IS NOT $250,000. *. Get that out of your mind!

And put this in your mind, " I venture to say that most of us here on this forum fall in that category! It's your dollars Obama is coming after!



> as many of you have stated means that you refer to the average Joe in this forum must make $250,000 a year


. 
Not here - I did assume that most of us had already heard that THE Joe the Pumber was not making $250,000 & the original Joe is who I am referencing - in present time - not down the road.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 17, 2008)

littlesteppers said:


> Well we are talking about Joe the plumber..and if you have hired a plumber lately you might just know what they charge..IF Joe the plumber would have just One BIG contract a year..you don't think he would make 250 000? especially if he had a few empoyees..Lincoln quote..
> 
> Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Reply to New York Workingmen's Democratic Republican Association" (March 21, 1864), pp. 259-260.



My husband owns his own business, he is an Electrical Contractor (registgered electrician - Emond Electric and Sons) so I know what the trades make. I do my husband's accounting in my free time, this is apart from my full time job. My husband has employees as well. Once you pay employees, pay all your materials and everything else you can deduct before paying tax on your net income, you would have to be making or the company would have to be making a heck of alot more that $250,000 to be affected by a tax hike. I understand that the "Joe" we are talking about, the plumber does not have a license as a plumber therefore he would not be part of the union . Here in Canada the unions pretty much tell you what electricians/plumbers should charge. Oh you can charge alot more but if you do that and put your price so high, you won't get much work. The wage right now for a unionize electrician is $78.00 an hour, an apprentice is considerably less, somewhere I believe around $25/hour. I believe that a plumber here in Canada makes approximately the same, perhaps a bit lower but not much. If I am not mistaken the hourly rate is lower in the U.S. I will check with Mike. So I am sorry I don't buy the fact that a plumber would be taxed on $250,000. Are you taxed on the gross amount you make? I was under the impression that you have quite a few deductions and then you get taxed on the amount once all the available tax deductions have been calculated on your income? or are you tax on the money you make before any deductions have been applied?

Anyway, we are getting away from the subject. As I said my comment above was about the statement made that the average person in this forum makes $250,000 per year in salary (single person salary). My opinion still stands that I don't think that is an accurate statement but it's only an opinion because perhaps I am wrong.

Here is a statement made today regarding plumbers (U.S.) and approximately what they make. So this specific "Joe" the plumber would not fall into the category of having his taxes raised. He would however have his taxes raised if he bought a company who after deductions (salaries to employees, payment of tools, materials, etc everything that can be deducted) gave him a personal salary of $250K than yes his taxes would go up.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...z8&refer=us


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## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

I believe there is a BIG misunderstanding..Joe did Not say he makes 250 000..he asked Obama that IF he would open his own business how Obamas tax policy wuld affect him..


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## bingo (Oct 17, 2008)

The answer was given to him and others. His tax increase would be 3 percent above what it is currently for a small business that makes 250,000. +


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## Southern_Heart (Oct 17, 2008)

> Cathy H.......... It's your dollars Obama is coming after!


*Yep He thinks he is Robin Hood*


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## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

bingo said:


> The answer was given to him and others. His tax increase would be 3 percent above what it is currently for a small business that makes 250,000. +


Oh my..Bingo...









Obama is talking about raising payroll tax, dividend tax, capital gains tax.

Do I make 250K+, No! (Obama does) but I know I will get hit with his welfare program. It takes more than 1% population to carry 50% bottom population. Even if we don't raise payroll tax, the deficit will weaken our US Dollars and that means inflation - food, gas, groceries, etc.

Just think....don't fall into the old political tricks : the riches are evil, the poor are victim. America is the land of opportunity who reward people based on merits (in most cases anyways). How did Obama get his education?? He said he was fortunate..huh? .

It's so popular back in the 60 and 70s when communists party tried to sway people their way and put the intellectuals/riches as scapegoats in every problem


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## Laura (Oct 17, 2008)

Ya know, I'm starting to feel a little sick to my stomach at some of the posts I've seen in the last day or two...wow...


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## minie812 (Oct 18, 2008)

Laura...DITTO...I'm signing off for awhile.


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## tagalong (Oct 18, 2008)

All misinformation (and there has been a lot of it), sneering, baiting and



aside.... whoever is elected is going to raise your taxes at some point - no matter what they say now. There is no choice with the mess we are in now. So pointing fingers serves no purpose... _Read my lips - no new taxes_.. does that ring a bell?


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 18, 2008)

IMO the attacks and invasion of privacy of Joe The Plumber is disgracesful. The democrats and those people who have supported them in this conduct should be ashamed. Regardless of whether Joe is a certified plumber or not, whether he owns the business or is planning to buy one or not, whether he makes $250,000 or not, whether he owes $1200 in back taxes or not, is totally immaterial.

I thought when I heard Obama's response to Joe that he (Obama) had just shot himself in the foot. The subsequent attacks on Joe seem to support that. He is just an average citizen who had an opportunity to ask a presidential candidate a question. The fact that the answer has caused Obama problems in no way justifies the attacks!!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...d-the-weal.html


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## Bassett (Oct 18, 2008)

Donna, I so agree. Can't wait to see Joe on Huckabee Saturday night. Should be interesting.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 18, 2008)

Bassett said:


> Donna, I so agree. Can't wait to see Joe on Huckabee Saturday night. Should be interesting.


Bassett..Hannity has part two of the Obama investigation on Sunday night..might want to watch it..!


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## joylee123 (Oct 18, 2008)

AppyLover2 said:


> IMO the attacks and invasion of privacy of Joe The Plumber is disgracesful. The democrats and those people who have supported them in this conduct should be ashamed. Regardless of whether Joe is a certified plumber or not, whether he owns the business or is planning to buy one or not, whether he makes $250,000 or not, whether he owes $1200 in back taxes or not, is totally immaterial.
> I thought when I heard Obama's response to Joe that he (Obama) had just shot himself in the foot. The subsequent attacks on Joe seem to support that. He is just an average citizen who had an opportunity to ask a presidential candidate a question. The fact that the answer has caused Obama problems in no way justifies the attacks!!
> 
> http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...d-the-weal.html


[SIZE=12pt]Thank you for posting this link. It is quite clear what Obama was trying to get across. I can't see where he shot himself (Obama) in the foot. I guess everyone interprets things the way they wish to interpret them. Amazing how folks can spin things to get a different interpretation of what is trying to be conveyed.[/SIZE]

Joy


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## Bassett (Oct 18, 2008)

littlesteppers said:


> Bassett said:
> 
> 
> > Donna, I so agree. Can't wait to see Joe on Huckabee Saturday night. Should be interesting.
> ...



Oh definitely, I wouldn't miss it. Thanks for the reminder. LIsten up everybody.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 18, 2008)

AppyLover2 said:


> IMO the attacks and invasion of privacy of Joe The Plumber is disgracesful. The democrats and those people who have supported them in this conduct should be ashamed. Regardless of whether Joe is a certified plumber or not, whether he owns the business or is planning to buy one or not, whether he makes $250,000 or not, whether he owes $1200 in back taxes or not, is totally immaterial.
> I thought when I heard Obama's response to Joe that he (Obama) had just shot himself in the foot. The subsequent attacks on Joe seem to support that. He is just an average citizen who had an opportunity to ask a presidential candidate a question. The fact that the answer has caused Obama problems in no way justifies the attacks!!
> 
> http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...d-the-weal.html


I agree that his personal life is private. He said he wanted to buy a business and wanted to know if his taxes would go up. I believe that the democratic candidate said it would if "Joe" made a salary or had a personal income of $250,000 (afer allowable deductions". I don't think anyone is disputing that but McCain/Palim seem to forget the fact of "$250,000 and are trying to make it seem that everyone is going to be taxed more under the democrats. It's a tactic that the republicans are using over and over again, ad nauseum


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## Pepipony (Oct 18, 2008)

Its sad how many people state that they are afraid that the government will come and take away what they have worked so hard for. Wonder what propaganda bs they have read, or heard to state that, when its just NOT FACT and just not true.

Yup, can just see Obamas guestapo running around taking homes from the 'rich' and giving them to the poor



Part of me wonders how blind in their hatred these people must be that they refuse to read the facts or even learn them.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 18, 2008)

A few days ago someone made a comment on one of these threads about the young people vs the older people on the forum. I've given it some thought and can see how and why that might happen. It's because we older people have worked harder and LONGER for what we have than the younger people have. A lot of us have worked longer than some of you have lived. We don't want to see our lifes work flushed down the toilet in the name of sharing the wealth.



> .....its just NOT FACT and just not true.


Pepi how do you KNOW it's not true? I understand that since you're a Obama supporter you don't want to think so, but let's face it, none of us know what may or may not happen. We vote for the person we want to win and pray that our decision was a good one. Unless we're inside their heads that's all we can do.

I can't speak for others but I'm not blind (I can see perfectly well, thank you) and I hold no "hatred" for "these people". Frankly I resent your inference that I'm not as smart or as well informed as you just because I disagree.


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## Bassett (Oct 18, 2008)

> Its sad how many people state that they are afraid that the government will come and take away what they have worked so hard for. Wonder what propaganda bs they have read, or heard to state that, when its just NOT FACT and just not true.Yup, can just see Obamas guestapo running around taking homes from the 'rich' and giving them to the poor
> 
> 
> 
> Part of me wonders how blind in their hatred these people must be that they refuse to read the facts or even learn them.


I think you are putting ideas in peoples minds. I don't think anyone thinks Obama is going to take their HOME away and give it to someone else like you are saying. Now doesn't this remark I just said sound stupid. Just like yours. It is only an opinion but it doesn't HAVE to agree with yours. Okay?

AND just HOW do you know what you say is TRUE and everyone else is full of it? Maybe we think ours is true and yours isn't. Only peoples opinions. Don't take it to heart so much. We are all only expressing OUR opinions. Not yours.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 18, 2008)

> And McCain/Palin is the one abusing this *Joe idiot guy*..


........ 
Ah come on ML - don't you think that is uncalled for? Why is he an idiot? Seriously?



> BUT.. as always McCain/Palin like to lie to public.. dirtballs!


Obama & Biden have also told their share of untruths, half truths & no truths but they aren't dirtballs. Actually if we called Obama that we would be jumped on immediately for being a racist.


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