# Frame Overo and Splashed Owners Please share your photos :)



## MBhorses (May 5, 2012)

I would like for those who own Frame Overos and Splashed to share information about sire and dam along with photos of your overos.

I would like to know if you all have better luck breeding frame to solid or what?Also best luck for getting splash foals?

Thanks

here is my stud Elvis I taught was Overo, but I was told he is splashed since he is neg for LWO gene.


You can tell by looking at some horses to know if they are LWO or not.It is amazing those you would think are LWO positive are neg and those you wouldn't think are LWO pos are.

Elvis other side is solid black





Elvis sire is Laurel Acres Hello Fice.black pinto blue eyes

Dam is Solid bay with white on her face blue eyes.

grandsire NFCS Fire and Ice. black pinto

elvis as a foal


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## mini horse mania (May 6, 2012)

Here is nostalgias double jeopardy.he was hardshipped into amha and amhr back in 1995.he is lwo and splash. He has produced color and solids with blue eyes..some lwo..some not.i hace bred my tobiano mares to him for next year foals.


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## PaintNminis (May 6, 2012)

Here is my Minimal Splash Mare (Lab Tested)

Lazy Bear Lady Sapphire

2000 AMHA/AMHR Sorrel 33.5"









and her Daughter.......

Desert Realms Bejeweled Design (Homozygous for Splashed White) LWO Negative

2009 AMHA/AMHR Blue Eyed Sorrel Pinto


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (May 6, 2012)

Not sure if this is what you're looking for but, here's my main stallion Oak Parks Oh Im Awesome, who is LWO neg. and I'm almost positive that he is tobiano (obviously), sabino (which is what I believe is giving his white the "whispy" look) and minimal splash.






Then we have this mare who is tobiano, splash and I also believe sabino






These are the two resulting colts from this cross, first is our 2012 boy, and the second is the 2010 colt.


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (May 6, 2012)

Now this is the cross in which makes me believe that Doc (stallion above) is splash.

He was crossed on this mare, who is solid black bay, she has no white at all






Resulted in this foal the first time crossed together:






And this foal the second time, a solid black filly


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## MBhorses (May 6, 2012)

thanks you all very nice horses. I Would like to thank you all for sharing.

so is the blue eyes from splash or sabino or both or something else ?


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## rabbitsfizz (May 6, 2012)

Blue eyes come with Splash, not Sabino- and yes, I am aware the tests do not yet prove this, but I am pretty sure it is the tests that are not yet right, rather than the theory. ie we still have a couple of more Splash genes to sort out!

Not at all sure that Frame carries blue eyes, but Sabino definitely does not.


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## vvf (May 6, 2012)

Here is a minimal Splash. The only white he has is the snip. And both eyes are blue. The bottom pictures are 2 of his foals, both out of solid mares Both babies also have blue eyes


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## vvf (May 6, 2012)

Here are a few pic's of frame overos.
















The sorrel is not nearly as wild colored, but is a frame.


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## vvf (May 6, 2012)

This one is frame and splash


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## MBhorses (May 6, 2012)

vvf said:


> This one is frame and splash


cindy very nice horses. cool looking



everyone has very nice horses thanks for sharing.

does anyone have a palomino frame or buckskin frame or cremello frame would like to see them as well


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## MBhorses (May 6, 2012)

vvf said:


> Here is a minimal Splash. The only white he has is the snip. And both eyes are blue. The bottom pictures are 2 of his foals, both out of solid mares Both babies also have blue eyes


i am amazed how the foals came out so loudly color



very pretty


mini horse mania said:


> Here is nostalgias double jeopardy.he was hardshipped into amha and amhr back in 1995.he is lwo and splash. He has produced color and solids with blue eyes..some lwo..some not.i hace bred my tobiano mares to him for next year foals.


nice looking fellow


PaintNminis said:


> Here is my Minimal Splash Mare (Lab Tested)
> 
> Lazy Bear Lady Sapphire
> 
> ...


pretty horses


Lucky-C-Acres-Minis said:


> Not sure if this is what you're looking for but, here's my main stallion Oak Parks Oh Im Awesome, who is LWO neg. and I'm almost positive that he is tobiano (obviously), sabino (which is what I believe is giving his white the "whispy" look) and minimal splash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i have always love your horses


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## MBhorses (May 6, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Blue eyes come with Splash, not Sabino- and yes, I am aware the tests do not yet prove this, but I am pretty sure it is the tests that are not yet right, rather than the theory. ie we still have a couple of more Splash genes to sort out!
> 
> Not at all sure that Frame carries blue eyes, but Sabino definitely does not.


thanks for information. if a solid palomino horse has blaze face could he carry splash or sabino, he has brown eyes?


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## vickie gee (May 6, 2012)

Here is my mare "Choctaw." She is gray frame overo with crystal blue eyes. You can go to CLP miniatures and see her dam "Valentina" as well as her sire CLP's beautiful stallion Stonehenge Painted Feather. I doubt Connie would mind me posting their pictures but I will refrain. Choctaw's first foal for me is the little short bay on the right. She has just a couple of tiny white spots middle of her back and a coronet. Second foal is the blue roan lying down. He has a small white star. Third foal is in my avatar. I have not clipped yet but right now I believe she is solid gray with flaxen mane and tail. I hope she has dapples. Choctaw does. The sire of the bay was a chestnut I believe. These last two were sired by my blue roan stallion.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (May 7, 2012)

vickie gee said:


> Here is my mare "Choctaw." She is gray frame overo with crystal blue eyes. You can go to CLP miniatures and see her dam "Valentina" as well as her sire CLP's beautiful stallion Stonehenge Painted Feather. I doubt Connie would mind me posting their pictures but I will refrain. Choctaw's first foal for me is the little short bay on the right. She has just a couple of tiny white spots middle of her back and a coronet. Second foal is the blue roan lying down. He has a small white star. Third foal is in my avatar. I have not clipped yet but right now I believe she is solid gray with flaxen mane and tail. I hope she has dapples. Choctaw does. The sire of the bay was a chestnut I believe. These last two were sired by my blue roan stallion.
> 
> View attachment 8497


Just for clarity, your pretty mare and her latest foal are not grey, both are silver dapple (silver black to be more precise) That is why you can get a bay from a cross with a sorrel/chestnut stallion.


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## vickie gee (May 7, 2012)

Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> Just for clarity, your pretty mare and her latest foal are not grey, both are silver dapple (silver black to be more precise) That is why you can get a bay from a cross with a sorrel/chestnut stallion.


Hmmm, I do want to get them tested. Choctaw came to me with her papers "grey overo pinto" but I know you state the color for AMHA and if there is no obvious reason for them to question the color there is no need for them to. I really do not know what all to have them tested for or what to expect to spend for tests. Thanks for the info. I am going to do the color predictor and put mare as silver dapple or silver black if that is a choice. Using grey was like wondering what was going to be in a box of CrackerJacks. Color genetics are interesting, for sure. Thanks again.


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## Mona (May 7, 2012)

Grey vs Silver Black...Simply put, grey is just a greying gene, as in turning white over time...like what we do with age. LOL! A Silver Black is often called "grey" because it "LOOKS" like a steel grey color. So even though it LOOKS grey, the term is incorrect. This all said however, a silver black can also be grey!


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## SampleMM (May 7, 2012)

My stallion is LWO+


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## REO (May 7, 2012)

SampleMM said:


> My stallion is LWO+


Making me drool again LOL!!

Who would guess LWO by looking at him? You just never can tell by looking.


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## lil hoofbeats (May 8, 2012)




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## lil hoofbeats (May 8, 2012)




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## lil hoofbeats (May 8, 2012)

A


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## lil hoofbeats (May 8, 2012)

none of these horses carry a tobiano gene, all are either sabino/splash/frame, or a combination of all


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## ozymandias (May 8, 2012)

Not 100% sure but I think this one is frame

(sorry, couldn't resist....y'all have such beautiful horses



)


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## lil hoofbeats (May 8, 2012)

ozymandias said:


> Not 100% sure but I think this one is frame
> 
> (sorry, couldn't resist....y'all have such beautiful horses
> 
> ...


definately splash, with the jagged white, most likely sabino as well!!!!!!


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## ozymandias (May 8, 2012)

lil hoofbeats said:


> definately splash, with the jagged white, most likely sabino as well!!!!!!


LOL


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## Little Wolf Ranch (May 8, 2012)

I have a few but they haven't been tested yet - will be this summer since my new junior stallion will be breeding to them in 2013 or 2014 and I heavily believe he is LWO+.

The first one is my mare Missy. Her dam is Little Critters Spice, a solid cremello and her sire is Lucky Four Thundercloud, a black LWO negative tobiano/splash stallion. She obviously has tobiano but I also believe that she carries splash as she has one solid blue eye and has produced a 2010 loud tobiano/splash filly with two blue eyes and her 2011 colt had extensive leg white, along with a star and snip with grey eyes so I believe he also carried the tobiano/splash gene.

Second is my mare Allula. Her sire is TVF's Flash Em Cowboy, listed as a black and white pinto and her dam is LB J&N Shadow, listed as a bay pinto. She too obviously has tobiano due to the flank shield and head coloration but I also believe she has splash because of her two blue eyes. Her 2011 filly was a loud tobiano/splash with two blue eyes as well.

Third is my junior stallion Love It. His sire is Impressive Ovations Teddy Bear, pictured fourth, who is LWO positive - which makes me believe that since Love It is a carbon copy of his sire, that he also is LWO+ as well. Love It also has two blue eyes so I believe he carries the splash gene as well because of his markings, but we shall see for sure. I know his base color is bay and he has greyed out now.

(please excuse Love It's ugly neck - he's actually nicely put together he just was wiggling and moving alot and I needed to get a color/pattern shot. He needs a new pic now that he's matured more LOL)


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## MBhorses (May 8, 2012)

Wow very nice horses everyone thats for sharing.

lil hoofbeats you have alot of loudly marked horses (very nice)


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## Meavey (May 9, 2012)

Briar Patch Hopa Ya Dance, silver tovero, (tobiano and LWO+)









Her daughter LMS Double Lite my Fire, silver tovero, (tobiano and LWO+, homozygous for silver)


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## Joanne (May 9, 2012)

Homozygous for Splash White:






Her Splashed White colt from 2012:






Bay Frame Sabino 2011 Colt






Bay Frame Sabino Mare


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## Budhorse5 (May 9, 2012)

Splash can be solid but still have blue eyes, right? My little guy is black with blue eyes and a blaze.


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## Joanne (May 9, 2012)

Yes, but you cannot rule out frame either. It would be best to test him for both.

This can be done at UC Davis.

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/horse.php


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## bullockcorner (May 18, 2012)

O.K....Took me a while to figure out attaching photos, and STILL not sure I got it, but here goes....

I was totally shocked when my beautiful, blue-eyed, buckskin LOUD (overo?) pinto was born on 5/5. The surprise is this: Both parents are nn for LWO. BOTH parents are solids - dam (pictured) is black with some face white and some on feet. Sire is buckskin with no face white, and 2 small socks on back. This colt's _nearest_ overo (or _any_ pinto coloring) lineage is his* great* grandsire on the bottom side, LTD's Magic Man. Anyway....here goes...


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## Critterhugger (May 18, 2012)

Wow Bullockcorner your colt is NEAT!! Love that he is LWO negative. Great color!!! This little guy arrived the other day and will more than likely test as Frame LWO. His dam is a minimal frame overo.


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## bullockcorner (May 18, 2012)

Thanks, Critterhugger! Back at ya!


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## targetsmom (May 18, 2012)

OK, I will complicate things: our only frame overo is Mira, a true gray (gray gene), who is genetically a silver bay, H/Z for black, frame overo with one blue eye (negative for splash). Her frame markings are on her neck, flank, and near her elbow. She is pictured with her Easter 2012 filly who must be tobiano only (from sire) as she tested negative for frame and splash. The filly will also go gray.


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## rubyviewminis (May 19, 2012)

Sabino/Splash LWO negative, both eyes blue, dam chestnut frame, Strawberry the mare of Joanne 's that just foaled the little filly. Sire is Sabino.




Tobiano mare in the foreground but I suspect she is also Sabino since she has a lot of roaning around her white patterns, and a lot of wispy white markings.


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## MBhorses (Jun 4, 2012)

wow very nice horses everyone NICE colors patterns


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## Dontworrybeappy (Jun 5, 2012)

Just got my first splash on Sunday! Here's Ali Rose - not unfolded yet - not even 24 hours old!


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## TPs flat rock acres (Jun 6, 2012)

I so would like a stallion like the first boy very black but with nice bright white. Anyone ever has one please let me know


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## TPs flat rock acres (Jun 6, 2012)

oh Karen love him. Are you selling him or keeping him?


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## Dontworrybeappy (Jun 6, 2012)

TPs flat rock acres said:


> oh Karen love him. Are you selling him or keeping him?


Her! She's staying here - she is JUST what I was hoping for when I bred Alice to my friend's stallion! We're going to breed her back the same way next year (for an earlier foal in 2014!)


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## MBhorses (Aug 6, 2012)

ANY new overo or splash to share


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## SilverRose Farms (Aug 6, 2012)

Here is my 2012 Curly Palomino Overo Colt. (Blue eyes included) His dam is a palomino overo as well.












Sire of the above colt and Grandson of SkipAStar. Hes a tovero.






Dam of the colt above. She is LWO Positive.

Our newest mare Im sure carries something Splash or Frame or both. Shell be tested for both along with just general body color. I think she might be a smokey black.


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## targetsmom (Aug 7, 2012)

Buckeye WCF Last Dance is splash and tobiano, with 2 blue eyes. Bred to SRF Buckshot for a 2013 foal.






Our other mare with 2 blue eyes (Alamos Sirs Toffee Snow) is a tobiano that tested negative for splash.


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## hippocampe (Aug 7, 2012)

Sponenberg, Equine Color Genetics:

"Many splashed white horses are deaf... Some breeders contend that the splashed white horses with white around the eyes are more likely to be deaf than those with color around the eyes..."

What is your experience in this conection?


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## mshasta88 (Aug 7, 2012)

Black Walnuts Sky Dancer

I haven't had her very long but she does have a large white spot on her other side. I think she is a splash/sabino






Pura Vidas Half A Buck

It's hard to tell in this picture but her whole muzzel on this side is white with a blue eye. I'm sure that it is splash.






Pura Vidas Milagro

She is a Rowdy bred tovero pintaloosa and has some paint markings that look frame. She also has back lacing and half of her face is roaned. Very unusual but I would need to test her to find out if she is frame or splash.






Peach Valleys Johnny Come Lately

Tested negative for LWO and SB1, so must be Splash tovero.


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## hippocampe (Aug 8, 2012)

mshasta88 said:


> Peach Valleys Johnny Come Lately
> 
> Tested negative for LWO and SB1, so must be Splash tovero.


Could he not "just" be tobiano? Do you think he must be splashed because oh his blue eyes?

I ask this because I have a pinto yearling with one "mixed" eye, brown with some blue in it. What do you think he could be? I think he is tobiano..?


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## mshasta88 (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes he is tobiano but blue eyes is an overo characteristic, so sense he was neg for 2 of the overo genes I'm concluding that he has splash. His last foal was a very obvious splash colt.

 

Splash has only recently become available for testing so he hasn't been tested yet.


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## hippocampe (Aug 8, 2012)

look, I found this on http://www.vgl.ucdav...ces/tobiano.php



> Tobiano... The eyes are usually brown, but one or both may be blue or partially blue...


that would mean it is not necessarily an overo to have blue eyes...?

and on the same website from the UC Davis http://www.vgl.ucdav...lashedwhite.php



> ...Splashed white is a variable white spotting pattern characterized primarily by extremely large blaze, extended white markings in legs, variable white spotting in belly, and often blue eyes...


Like my little Amigo, your horse has no white on his face, even not the muzzle... isn't it unusual for splashed white?

and like Sponenberg, they say:



> Some, but not all, splashed white horses are also deaf.


maybe nobody has seen my question: what is your experience with splashed white and deafness? frequent or not... depending on more or less white on the face?

thanks in advance for your answers


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## targetsmom (Aug 8, 2012)

And as I note in post #45 above, horses with blue eyes can test negative for splash (and LWO). It is thought there is another splash gene that can cause blue eyes that isn't being tested for at this time. So your boy could test negative for the splash genes that are tested for at this time, like our mare Toffee did.

ETA: I think I read somewhere recently the percentage of splash white horses that are estimated to be deaf but can't remember the number. I think it is less than half. Our mare hears fine. Deafness is related to pigmentation in the inner ears I think, but not sure you can tell by looking at the outer ear.


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## hippocampe (Aug 8, 2012)

Thank you, Targetsmom!!

deafness in dogs can be related to extremly white markings in piebald or merle and double-merle dogs. It's the same situation as you described: deafness related to the lack of pigmentation of the inner ear.


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## mshasta88 (Aug 8, 2012)

I have actually owned several splash horses in the past and like what targetsmom said, I only recently found out that some are deaf about the time the gene test was made available. I do believe that at least one was deaf but I didn’t know what else to look for at time. The one I suspect might have been deaf was a total white tovero with only one ear that was bay colored, which would support lack of pigmentation theory.


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## hippocampe (Aug 8, 2012)

thank you too, Mshasta88!


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## hippocampe (Aug 9, 2012)

animal genetics http://www.horsetesting.com/splash.htm



> Occasional congenital deafness is associated with white or white patterned, blue-eyed animals, including dogs and cats. It is important to note that most splashed white horses are not deaf. Hearing loss is due to the death of the necessary hair cells, caused by the absence of melanocytes in the inner ear. Although the majority of splash horses have pigment around the outside of the ear, the pigment must occur in the inner ear to prevent hearing loss.


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## vickie gee (Aug 9, 2012)

hippocampe said:


> animal genetics http://www.horsetesting.com/splash.htm


Interesting link...thanks. I had heard that blue-eyed white cats were often deaf but had never heard what causes it.


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## weerunner (Aug 10, 2012)

Penny, my 2010 mare from a solid blue eyed bay dam and a silver black solid stallion.


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## hippocampe (Aug 10, 2012)

I would think that one of the parents is a false-delcared minimal splashed. Probably the blue-eyed dam? Do you have pics of the parents?

anyway, this mating ended in a successfull result of a wonderfull-colored Penny! I would like to see her in her summer coat, if you have some photos..


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## weerunner (Aug 10, 2012)

Penny in the summer, she is only 2 and so she still does not shed out nice and sleek like the older horses do. It took her full sister 4 years to learn to shed out sleek.


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## Callie (Aug 10, 2012)

Running W's Sunny's Geronimo


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## MBhorses (Aug 12, 2012)

wow you have alot of nice horses keep them coming


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## dreaminmini (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is my guy, Eddy. He is a frame overo. Don't really know what else, never had him tested. He is a gelding so won't be breeding him.








My favourite picture of him.




The leg that isn't in the pick also has a white sock as well.


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## Equuisize (Aug 15, 2012)

This is Zoe.

Color tested at UCDavis as a splash red head.

Two blue eyes, wrap around white on her face .... one higher white leg and white around a coronet band

and a bit of a sock.

Has foaled ::: 3 loud pinto babies with blue eyes & 3 red heads with brown eyes/these have big blazes

2 have no other white than on their faces, one has a big blaze and a small sock and a white coronet band

.





Bless her pudginess in this photo...she is 22 days out from delivering our long awaited colt in 2011.


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## misty'smom (Aug 15, 2012)

You all have some beautiful horses, I have enjoyed looking at everyones pictures!!!!! I'm new to minis but grew up with the bigger guys which was quite a while ago. I have done lots of research on the minis but looks like I need to learn about coloring/markings.....the difference between the Overo, Splash, Torbiano. Misty maybe just a blk/wht pinto...........wow so much to learn!! But I am in the right place for that now with all of you expert mini owners!! Thank you!!

We thought Misty was going to have a blue eye but I just think her eyes are light in color. Here are a couple of pics of her and her mother. I have a picture of her father but I need to get it off my other computer.


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## mshasta88 (Aug 16, 2012)

mshasta88 said:


> Pura Vidas Milagro
> 
> She is a Rowdy bred tovero pintaloosa and has some paint markings that look frame. She also has back lacing and half of her face is roaned. Very unusual but I would need to test her to find out if she is frame or splash.


I just discovered yesterday that my mares sire indeed tested positive for LWO!!!!!! So I was right about her possible having LWO but I need to test her to make sure it isn’t another gene tricking my eye.


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## MBhorses (Nov 27, 2012)

Any New Frame or splashed.I am hoping to add a frame mare to my herd someday.Anyone want to donate one LOL Or trade for one LOL


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## Magic Marker Minis (Nov 27, 2012)

I don't know about Sponenberg's theory, but I recently came across information that said if the ears were white on the inside, that indicated possible deafness. Has something to do with the white hair follicles on the inside of the ear.


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## shadelady (Nov 28, 2012)




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## Merogsrha (Nov 28, 2012)

I am not extremely familiar with the pattern terminology in paints (more an appy gal), but I *think* my mare Cookie is a Tobiano. Can an experienced paint person confirm or correct me there? I know she has had two foals; but never seen either of them to know what patterns's they did or didnt have







ETA - changed my wording - said I didnt know the foal colors- meant patterns if any


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 29, 2012)

Magic Marker Minis said:


> I don't know about Sponenberg's theory, but I recently came across information that said if the ears were white on the inside, that indicated possible deafness. Has something to do with the white hair follicles on the inside of the ear.


The white can even be right down at the base of the ear and only found with a torch!

To recap on Pattern (colour is a whole different thing, these are not colours they are patterns)

Tobiano- if there is white on the face it is not _just_tobiano

LWO- white on the legs is the first thing to go, so if your horse is minimal LWO and has white socks there is another pattern present.

Splash- carries blue eyes- I am still in the camp that thinks there are _way_ more than three splash genes and if your horse has blue eyes and tests negative I would follow your heart, not the test!

Sabino- polygenous, as I am pretty sure is Splash- only Sab1 is testable.

There is no such thing as "normal white markings"

*I STILL hate the term "overo" as it has absolutely NO meaning and is only commonly used in America but I hate the term "tovero" even more as it is just a marketing ploy most of the time and confusing the rest!!*


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## LAminiatures (Nov 29, 2012)




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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Nov 29, 2012)

Here's my newest girl Erica's Can't Touch This, she is a buckskin minimal overo. She hasn't been LWO tested but she did have a loud bay frame colt and a loud bay splash colt for Erica sired by Taker (who is LWO neg) so pretty sure she is frame, and possibly splash.


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## chandab (Nov 29, 2012)

I know his markings are minimal, but would you guess splash for this little guy?




I know hideous angle and he had his hooves trimmed a few days after this pic, but it shows his markings best. And, the "white" on his front legs is baby fuzz, he barely has white around his coronets, does have back socks. And, he has pretty blue eyes.

Sire is LWO- bay stallion; dam is cremello (I suspect silver smokey cream), I don't know her LWO status (I'm pretty sure her dam was LWO-, her sire is George).


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 30, 2012)

Yes, definitely Splash


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## chandab (Nov 30, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Yes, definitely Splash


No easy way to tell if he got it from his dam, being she's cremello, but... Would you say that his sire is splash, then? Here's Topper (no blue eyes and there is a star under his forelock):


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 30, 2012)

Yes again. Unattached white hanging off the end of the nose is classic. May possibly be minimal Tobi as well, but (which would account for your losing the blue eyes, possibly) Splash for sure


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## chandab (Nov 30, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Yes again. Unattached white hanging off the end of the nose is classic. May possibly be minimal Tobi as well, but (which would account for your losing the blue eyes, possibly) Splash for sure


Thank you. More color in my herd than I thought.

His parents are both listed as solid, I've not seen pics of his dam, but his sire is Buckeroo's Top Cat.


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## targetsmom (Nov 30, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Yes again. Unattached white hanging off the end of the nose is classic. May possibly be minimal Tobi as well, but (which would account for your losing the blue eyes, possibly) Splash for sure


OK, you got my attention with this comment so now I am wondering if our 2 pinto foals from this April might carry splash? Neither was tested. Clyde's dam (also blue eyes) tested negative, and Bunny's dam was not tested but is LWO+ while Bunny is LWO negative. I am sure they are both Tobi.

Clyde is the blue-eyed bay and Bunny is the silver bay, now definitely gray so the white on her nose doesn't show up as well.


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## PaintNminis (Nov 30, 2012)

I have a few More to add





Zephyr Woods Cash Money

National Champion Sr Halter Stallion





I'm not sure what kind of Patterns he is I think Possibly Frame/Splash & Tobaino?











ROKO Lotto Blue Willow Keepsake

2011 Silver Dapple Pinto with Blue Eyes (Not Tested yet) I think she is Splashed White






not Registered yet so no name to share

2012 Silver Buckskin Pinto LWO+






Desert Realms Girl on Fire

2012 Sorrel Pinto Filly (I think she is Splash not Tested yet)


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## REO (Nov 30, 2012)

targetsmom said:


> OK, you got my attention with this comment so now I am wondering if our 2 pinto foals from this April might carry splash? Neither was tested. Clyde's dam (also blue eyes) tested negative, and Bunny's dam was not tested but is LWO+ while Bunny is LWO negative. I am sure they are both Tobi.
> 
> Clyde is the blue-eyed bay and Bunny is the silver bay, now definitely gray so the white on her nose doesn't show up as well.


Both of these carry Splash, among other things.


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## REO (Nov 30, 2012)

PaintNminis said:


> I have a few More to add
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*ROKO Lotto Blue Willow Keepsake*

for sure is Splash. Her mom is also Tobi and Sabino.





I believe all that you posted in your post carry Splash. .

.


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## targetsmom (Nov 30, 2012)

Thanks REO! I am just about positive that our stallion carries splash but when he was tested for LWO (and found negative) the splash test wasn't available. He is Rowdy bred as are the dam's of both these foals. The dams are both granddaughters of Red Boy while he is a grandson of Ramblin Starbuck.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 30, 2012)

heres one that is LWO negative, and 2 blue eyes


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 30, 2012)




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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 1, 2012)

It is not thought now that LWO does "carry" blue eyes, so that is one I would say is Splash as well, in fact that is one I would test for Tobi as well and- oh shoot just test for all the patterns, why don't you?



As you know LWO is the only one you really have to test for if you are breeding, all the rest is just interesting

TM I would say they are definitely Splash if they have blue eyes.

PNM that is a lovely stallion you have, and TM I shall be over to pick up Willow, it was nice of you to keep her for me


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## lexischase (Dec 1, 2012)

I know nothing about this girls past since she is a rescue oh and please excuse her tummy in the newer photos she is possibly in foal from her previous situation. I want to have her and a few other of my horses tested for color but have never done that so not even sure what exactly I would be testing for.... Do you think Summer could carry pinto genes?

Next set of photos are of my new 2012 filly who is out of a cremello and a pinto. On her registration applications it says grulla pinto but on the website from before she was advertised as a gray dun. She has a dorsal stripe so not sure if that makes a difference. She was clipped by the vet in a couple of the photos so you can see how light she is under her woolies. She has big spots on the top of her back not sure if that helps determine what she would be? How would I go about testing her to know exactly what she carries?

Thanks


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## MBhorses (Dec 1, 2012)

wow nice horses everyone


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 2, 2012)

OK Lexi- your pretty filly has to have Cream so she is a Smoky Black Dun Pinto- OK? The first one I really like, she is my sort of mare, and I think you should test her for LWO first off and also find out what she is possibly in foal to and if that has been tested for LWO as I doubt it will have been, in which case you will just have to wait and see.....sorry!

Although I do not think she is LWO would test the Dun filly as well, and test them both for Splash, although I am pretty sure both are Splash. Very nice horses, what are their bloodlines?

ETA: Does the Chestnut mare have a dorsal too? Of course the filly can easily be very dark Buckskin instead of Black Dun - you can still have a dorsal with Buckskins- so I would test her for Agouti/ Dun and lethal White, then you will know what she is for sure as if she has Agouti (we know she has Cream) she is a Buckskin.

The first mare is Red based, you could also test her for Dun, she has Flaxen and possibly Roan, although it could be Sabino roaning- little point in testing for Sabino unless you want to know if she has Sab1 or not.


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## targetsmom (Dec 2, 2012)

New questions.... I agree that Lexi's filly has to have cream, but why can't she be a buckskin? She certainly can't be a gray since neither of her parents are gray, so I wonder about the "gray dun" in the ad. To be dun one parent would have to be dun, yes? Which one? Does she have an actual dorsal stripe or is it countershading? I know I can never tell on our horses - I think all of ours are countershading.


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## Merogsrha (Dec 2, 2012)

I had to wipe the drool off my keyboard after seeing so many GORGEOUS horses in one thread  Quick question for the paint pattern experts. What would you consider my mare Cookie? She has a faint star on her forhead that appears to be spread out white hairs (a salt n pepper start basically, for lack of better terms). And the rest of her, you can see below


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 2, 2012)

TM- I did say that??

And I am assuming it is the CrCr parent that has the Dun as it would not show, obviously the Bay/Black sire is not Dun.....

Cookie looks to be a black and white base Tobiano with Sabino- it is probably the Sabino that is causing the roaning on the face, although it could just be the Tobiano.....


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## Merogsrha (Dec 2, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> .Cookie looks to be a black and white base Tobiano with Sabino- it is probably the Sabino that is causing the roaning on the face, although it could just be the Tobiano.....


THANK YOU! I had a feeling she was tobiano, but not being anywhere NEAR familiar with all of the technicalities and mixing of them, I wanted to ask



I cannot wait to see her shed out this spring - I want to see what her face REALLY looks like under all that fuzz, and her star! I am thinking she has a petite little head



Looks it anyways from what I can tell


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## Jade10 (Dec 2, 2012)

What patterns do you think my two are?

The first is Amigo, im pretty sure that he is sabino as he has roaning, a white chin spot, a white bottom lip, and other sabino indicators. But not sure what else? (ps he is now a gelding)





And this is his daughter Koora who is mostly white but has small palomino patches and one blue eye.






Please excue her dirtyness as it had been raining lol


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## lexischase (Dec 2, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> OK Lexi- your pretty filly has to have Cream so she is a Smoky Black Dun Pinto- OK? The first one I really like, she is my sort of mare, and I think you should test her for LWO first off and also find out what she is possibly in foal to and if that has been tested for LWO as I doubt it will have been, in which case you will just have to wait and see.....sorry!
> 
> Although I do not think she is LWO would test the Dun filly as well, and test them both for Splash, although I am pretty sure both are Splash. Very nice horses, what are their bloodlines?
> 
> ...





targetsmom said:


> New questions.... I agree that Lexi's filly has to have cream, but why can't she be a buckskin? She certainly can't be a gray since neither of her parents are gray, so I wonder about the "gray dun" in the ad. To be dun one parent would have to be dun, yes? Which one? Does she have an actual dorsal stripe or is it countershading? I know I can never tell on our horses - I think all of ours are countershading.




Thank you very much! "Summer" is the first girl who is possibly in foal. She has dun listed on her coggins I got and other than that I know nothing. No clue where she comes from before the meat buyer purchased her. I so wish I knew if she was registered or not, she is such a lovely little mare! She does have a dark dorsal stripe... Unless its just the shading?? I don't know the difference. By the looks of Summer do you think she could produce color?

Rue the 7 month old filly is out of

SMHCs Exclusive x Little Kings Buckeroo Xena (a buckeroo daughter)

Could Rue be the grullo that they put on her registration application? Still confused on what color she is LOL will have to test to be positive. Can she be the dun they originally called her or does her sire or dam have to actually be dun to produce it? Rue has a dorsal stripe but she is so fuzzy that its hard to tell how dark it will be once clipped in the spring.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 3, 2012)

Rue could be Grullo or she could be dark Buckskin, you would really have to test to find out- I think she is Smoky Black Dun (which is Grullo) and my guess is that Summer is a Red Dun with flaxen, Chestnuts do often have a false dorsal, and you would have to test for Dun to be sure, but I have had a lot of Red Duns in my time and I think she may be one!

Koora is adorable, mud and all, and I think both your pretty horses are Splash + Sabino, but I would test Koora if you are going to breed form her eventually.


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## Jade10 (Dec 3, 2012)

Thankyou rabbitsfiz, I'm not going to breed with them, she was an accident anyway. We were told Amigo was a gelding but he definitely wasn't, he was just a late bloomer. He is now a gelding though.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 3, 2012)

Well, she should be called Serendipity then, because she was a very good "mistake"!!


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## markadoodle (Dec 3, 2012)

I just bought this colt who is claimed to be overo, I cannot wait to unwrap him!


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## PaintNminis (Dec 3, 2012)

Thanks REO







> PNM that is a lovely stallion you have,


Thanks!!!


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 4, 2012)

Mark he looks to be Splash + Sabino....(*I hate the term "overo" as it means nothing*....sorry) very pretty and obviously nosy!


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## KLM (Dec 6, 2012)

OK, I am sooo confused! What happened to Tobiano and Overo?

I was recently told that my mare, whom I thought was a Tobiano is most likely a splash something because she has a blue eye?

Her name is La Vista Project Runway, her sire is OMP Dazzling Dark Destiny, registered as a solid black and her Dam is Bantams Supreme Dream, registered as a Bay Pinto.

So... what do you think she is?


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## KLM (Dec 6, 2012)

And now my gelding... Would he be considered a splash as well?


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## Jade10 (Dec 6, 2012)

I am not a colour or pattern expert but since my foal was born i have been doing a lot of research lol I think your mare La Vista Project Runway is Tobiano but has something else as well to cause the blue eye. Her markings match the description of Tobiano quite well.

_'They are identified by their white legs and solid colored head'_

_'The Tobiano (pronounced: tow be yah' no) coat pattern usually involves some white on all four legs and rounded white spots on the body with sharp, clean edges. The head of the horse is usually colored'_

(I could be wrong though as im still learning about pinto patterns lol)


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## targetsmom (Dec 6, 2012)

KLM- I think the general consensus is that blue eyes are from splash. There is now a test for 3 forms of splash and on another thread it was very clear that not all blue eyed minis test positive for those splash genes so there must be another gene that isn't tested for. Or else there is something else other than splash that causes blue eyes. We have a mare posted somewhere on this thread that is negative for splash but has 2 lovely blue eyes.

I think it is also very common for pintos to carry more than one pattern - tobiano, splash, frame and/or sabino. Overo tends to be confusing and tovero even more so!! I think your lovely mare and gelding each carry both tobiano and splash. The gelding might carry frame (lethal white gene) but as a gelding it isn't critical to know.


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## KLM (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks guys. I will test my mare, because I am going to breed her, and I think just for the fun of it I will test my gelding. Either way, they are nice to look at with those eyes!


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## KLM (Dec 6, 2012)

Targets Mom, Is your mare with the blue eyes Alamos Sirs Toffee Snow the one that tested negative? Your mare is my gelding Aunt. CC Call Me Sir is his grand-sire. My gelding is Samis Big Wheels by Alamo Buckeroos High Hat. That must be where those GORGEOUS eyes come from.

Love your mare by the way!


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## targetsmom (Dec 6, 2012)

Yes, our mare with the blue eyes that tested negative for splash is a CC Call Me Sirs daughter "Toffee" so she and your gelding likely got their blue eyes in the same place. Also on this thread is her 2012 colt Clyde, also with blue eyes that people said must carry splash because of his facial white which "falls off the end of his nose". Thanks for the compliment. I love both your mare and your gelding!


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## ohmt (Dec 7, 2012)

KLM, I would definitely say your mare is tobiano and splash, same with your gelding who looks to be sabino as well. I would not bother with the splash or sabino tests. Testing for frame is always a great idea though if you are breeding


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 7, 2012)

That gelding is very nice!! I am so glad we are getting more and more really good geldings,now, it is very heartening. I would agree that he is Splash and Sabino, at least, and since he is a gelding there is no need to test him. The mare is Tobiano base, with added Splash (a splash of Splash, in fact



)

As to what happened to Tobiano and Overo....well, we just got more educated about patterns, I guess! Overo is a waste of time really it only means "all patterns except Tobiano" and was used before we had tests to describe horses that looked alike in pattern, so it has been outgrown.


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## KLM (Dec 11, 2012)

Thank you again. I love both of them. I have 4 other mares that I think I need to test now as well. I am loving this forum, great people and very educational!

Happy Holidays everyone!


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## lexischase (Dec 13, 2012)

Any recommendations for places to test? How do I test? Does it matter if I use mane or tail hair?


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Dec 14, 2012)

I use animalgenetics.us I believe most their tests run around $25.00 a piece.. I use mane hair, it tells you how they want you to collect the hair and how much you need for the test.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 14, 2012)

Animal genetics are good- we have them here too!


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Dec 14, 2012)

Can anyone tell me (other than Rowdy) if any of the horses on the bottom are known frames?

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/olive+branchs+hot+deposit


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## hsrascal (Dec 14, 2012)

Wanted to share the only picture I have of my guy. I will get more eventually


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## MBhorses (Dec 14, 2012)

Lucky-C-Acres-Minis said:


> Can anyone tell me (other than Rowdy) if any of the horses on the bottom are known frames?
> 
> http://www.allbreedp...chs hot deposit


I had the same question today as well?


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## targetsmom (Dec 15, 2012)

I think Rowdy is the only horse in that pedigree that might be contributing frame, so any of his progeny could too. Of course I am not 100% certain, especially without photos. But Gold Melody Boy, Buckeroo, Little King Supreme, and Komokos Little Hussler have never been associated with frame to my knowledge. I would still test to be sure, especially with Rowdy in there.


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Dec 15, 2012)

targetsmom said:


> I think Rowdy is the only horse in that pedigree that might be contributing frame, so any of his progeny could too. Of course I am not 100% certain, especially without photos. But Gold Melody Boy, Buckeroo, Little King Supreme, and Komokos Little Hussler have never been associated with frame to my knowledge. I would still test to be sure, especially with Rowdy in there.


I don't own the stallion, but my new girl Erica (Erica's Can't Touch This) is in foal to him... She is Rowdy bred and frame, since she produced a loud bay frame colt by Erica's Taker (who is neg.).. So I'm a little worried now that I realize both are Rowdy bred..


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## targetsmom (Dec 15, 2012)

I think it was another thread where someone was worried about lethal white in a mare already bred. Even if they are both LWO+, you still have "only" a 1 in 4 chance of getting a lethal white foal. Is there any way you can have the stallion tested to remove any worry at all?


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## MBhorses (Dec 16, 2012)

I would like to know if there is any other know names that are LWO positive other then Rowdy.

My stud has rowdy and he is Neg for LWO gene.I recently bred him to my mare who always has rowdy.I wonder if she is positive for LWO but in my case it would be okay since my stud is neg.I have heard of folks breeding LWO TO LWO because it is 1 to 4 chance,but me I wonder want that change



.I hope your mare will have a nice foal.Test your mare then if she is neg all is good.

Lucky c your mare sire is my mare's grandsire.My mare's dam is half sister to your mare same sire.


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## targetsmom (Dec 16, 2012)

Most/many of the LTD horses are frame (LWO+). I think that line comes from a horse named Shredder through LTDs Magic Man, a lovely frame overo that even has his own Breyer model. Not to be confused with the "other" Magic Man, Flying W Farms Blue Boys Magic Man, a H/Z TOBIANO pinto. We have a daughter of the tobiano Magic Man. Both Magic Mans are mutli times World/National champions.

Our Rowdy-bred pinto stallion is also LWO- so we haven't tested all our Rowdy-bred mares to see if any (other than Mira) are LWO+.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 16, 2012)

I think the "problem" with the Rowdy lines is that they are "notorious" for "hiding" the LWO (sorry for the over worked parenthesis, btw!!) LTD lines combine Splash, Sabino and LWO and are usually very "wild " (Oh there I go again




) whereas Rowdy lines can be very sneaky (just not using the little so and so's anymore you will have to insert parenthesis as need in the privacy of your own mind....) and give you a solid horse that is LWO + - now, _any_ (whoo hoo another little feature) LWO + can., in theory, hide the gene, but Rowdy hid it himself and is known for it. (I am exhausted, I am all punctuated out, I need to go an lie down now....)


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## targetsmom (Dec 16, 2012)

Certainly Rowdy was one to "hide" (oops...sorry, I guess I am copying Jane) frame/LWO+, but if you are looking at a pedigree for horses that might be LWO+, sometimes all you have is the name with a prefix, so they won't necessarily look wild colored. And even if the pedigree says "pinto" (there I go again) you won't know what pattern it is, so knowing what possible prefixes or names to look for might help. The frame patterns is very popular and some people want to breed for it, just need to be careful. BTW, you do not increase the chance of getting frame by breeding frame to frame. All you do is increase the chance of getting a foal that will die shortly after birth.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 16, 2012)

Catching, isn't "it"??


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Dec 16, 2012)

targetsmom said:


> I think it was another thread where someone was worried about lethal white in a mare already bred. Even if they are both LWO+, you still have "only" a 1 in 4 chance of getting a lethal white foal. Is there any way you can have the stallion tested to remove any worry at all?


Unfortunately no,, he's been sold and previous owner doesn't have contact info



Guess I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best.


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## MBhorses (Jun 29, 2013)

any new frames to share


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## Supercilious (Jun 30, 2013)

MBhorses said:


> any new frames to share


What do you all think about this little guy? He is not registered, I bought him for a pet, to cart train....All I know about him is his mama is in one of the pictures and his daddy was white with blue eyes....I have his half sister also who is out of a Smokey black mare & same stallion, she is white with blue eyes...I thought she was a cremello at first but after seeing her half brother,I'm thinking Extreme Sabino? idk..ha ha.......


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## Danielleee (Jun 30, 2013)

I like this thread. This is my boy, Bo. (Hidden Timbers Bold Streak)


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## MBhorses (Nov 24, 2013)

Any new frames or splashed


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## jess - bentley (Nov 24, 2013)

Not sure if these guys are splash or tobiano's? The black and white has one blue eye and the other horse has two blues. Both have a lot of white that continues onto the face. From what I have been reading I think my guys are tovero's?


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 28, 2013)

This boy is sabino/Frame/splash out of two black based horses. NO Tobiano at all in this fello











Here is a red frame/sabino filly two blue eyes






Here is another filly that is a splash/tested LWO NO TObiano at all.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 28, 2013)

Here is a slash mare


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 29, 2013)




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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 29, 2013)

Here is a frame that carries sabino as well


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## Watcheye (Nov 29, 2013)

This mare tested negative for LWO.











This guys sire is positive for frame but I have not tested him yet. I assume he is too.


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## MBhorses (Nov 30, 2013)

Wow nice horses everyone


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## MBhorses (Nov 30, 2013)

Lil hoof beats you can send one of those frame fillies or mare my way


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## MBhorses (Dec 28, 2013)

Nice horses everyone


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