# Video of our little Amish driver



## wendyluvsminis (Dec 24, 2010)

Here are some pictures and video of our new little (29.5 inch) stallion, Fancy Pants. He is coming along very well, after his "I don't want to move, cuz we don't speak the same language" episodes! He doesn't really know different speeds of the trot, and opens his mouth quite a bit. The harness (A size) is big on him and I can't get the cavison snug..I will need to get him his own harness. He will have a couple weeks to a month of brush up/polish up training in the spring. I realize I look way too big for him, BUT my coat is two sizes too big and I WILL lose 50-60 lbs by summer! I have so much incentive now, wanting to look good for Fancy!

Here's the little dude in his furry splendor!


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## shorthorsemom (Dec 24, 2010)

He looks adorable. You look very proud!

I am a driving newbie. You might want to take a close up photo of your boy in harness hooked to your cart and let Leia or Margo or one of the many experienced driving ladies on this forum give you some feed back on your hook up and harness fit. It is too far away of a photo for me to tell if you are using a side check or an over check.. Opening his mouth alot can be due to several different things and one could be pain. Has his teeth been checked and floated? That is the first that comes to mind. The other would be bit choice or fit of the bit, or if an over check is used and he is uncomfortable and can't put his head where he needs to pull. Teeth and mouth comfort are very important.

In my newbie status I cannot be sure, but something looks a bit different as to how your boy is connected to your cart but I would suggest you consult the experts for that one. Best wishes and good luck. Thanks for sharing the videos!


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 24, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> He looks adorable. You look very proud!
> 
> I am a driving newbie. You might want to take a close up photo of your boy in harness hooked to your cart and let Leia or Margo or one of the many experienced driving ladies on this forum give you some feed back on your hook up and harness fit. It is too far away of a photo for me to tell if you are using a side check or an over check.. Opening his mouth alot can be due to several different things and one could be pain. Has his teeth been checked and floated? That is the first that comes to mind. The other would be bit choice or fit of the bit, or if an over check is used and he is uncomfortable and can't put his head where he needs to pull. Teeth and mouth comfort are very important.
> 
> In my newbie status I cannot be sure, but something looks a bit different as to how your boy is connected to your cart but I would suggest you consult the experts for that one. Best wishes and good luck. Thanks for sharing the videos!


Thank you! We had his mouth checked right away and everything is fine. Any harnessing advice would be so welcomed! I know this harness is a bit big. The shafts keep slipping forward on him. I think I need ones 4-6 inches shorter. My friend/trainer helped me hitch him a week ago, but with my old brain, one week is a long time for all the info to go in and then out! Does my breast collor look too high? We have driven him without a overcheck, with it loose, and with it tighter and he still opens his mouth. All advice is greatly appreciated!


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## Minimor (Dec 24, 2010)

What kind of bit are you using? If it is an ordinary jointed snaffle, that may be the reason he is opening his mouth--depending on bit quality/size of center joint, etc (and quite possibly just because it is a jointed snaffle) the bit could be poking into his palate when you use the lines. With Minis having such small/shallow mouths, the jointed snaffles do often dig into the roof of the mouth when the lines are tightened. You may want to try something different--a mullen mouth, or a french link? And of course if children have been driving him (I think you said he was a "school bus" for the Amish children before you got him?) they may have been heavy handed on the reins and he has learned to open his mouth as a way to get away from the bit--he will need some time & schooling to learn that you have softer hands and the bit won't hurt his mouth.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 24, 2010)

He's adorable!! I'm sorry you feel you have to apologize for "looking too big for him"- I think just about anyone looks too big for a 29" horse!



They're tiny and that's all there is to it.



He doesn't look like he's struggling to pull either one of you so no negative comments here.

I agree with the others on the cause of him opening his mouth. If it isn't his teeth, it's probably the bit combined with a habit of doing so and also a general lack of education on what to do as far as holding the bit quietly. Amish horses as I understand it are generally not taught to hold contact so it's probably a new sensation for him and if the bit is uncomfortable he's finding he doesn't like it much! Can't blame him. You'll have to find a bit he likes then work on building trust of your hands and eventually he'll quiet down. Then, and only then, can you tighten the caveson.

The harness looks fairly well-adjusted from what I can see of it on a dark horse in winter woolies.



Breastcollar and breeching height in particular look fine and yay for you for using breeching in the first place.



The shafts are a little far forward in the second standing photo but fine in the first one so you may need to tighten the holdbacks a bit.

My biggest comment is that while it's great you guys are carrying a whip on the cart, it does absolutely no good if it's not in your hand. He will quickly learn to ignore your "Step Trot" if he's allowed to get away with not responding as he was in the first video. Ask once, give him a moment and if he doesn't respond touch him with the whip and ask again. I do like how your husband is praising him though! He has a very soothing, confidence-instilling voice. The horse will definitely learn to work for that but having both a "that's right" AND a "that's wrong" indicator will help the horse to learn twice as fast.





Remember also to sit up straight and as far back on that narrow seat as you can to ensure you aren't putting weight on his back. Engaging your core muscles will help your posture (both of you) and will improve the overall picture as well as giving you a great workout each time you drive.



Wendy, you need to get a little bend in your elbows and both drivers should remember to sit up and alertly watch where you are going. That combined with fixing the bitting situation and teaching him to hold contact quietly will be the foundations of developing several speeds of trot. By the way, a big "right on" to your husband for asking Fancy Pants to step out at the walk! It's good discipline to always encourage the horse to walk out and not just meander along.

Thank you so much for sharing both pix and video, it was really fun to finally see your little guy in action!

Leia


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## RhineStone (Dec 24, 2010)

wendyluvsminis said:


> I know this harness is a bit big. The shafts keep slipping forward on him.


The shafts keep slipping forward on him because the breeching straps are WAY too loose. There is nothing to keep the cart from sliding up through the open tugs. You may have to take 1-3 wraps of the straps around the shafts to take up some of the slack. You should have about a flat hand's width between the breeching and the horse's butt at the back.

Just because the horse is opening his mouth and fussing with the bit doesn't always mean that the problem is in his mouth. Horses express anxiety in their mouth. The problem could be the fit of the harness (pinching somewhere), a muscular or skeletal soreness issue, a mental stress/frustration issue, or the bit itself. Sometimes it takes a bit of trial and error to come up with the correct "fix". (I'm not saying he looks sore or pinched somewhere, but all of these can cause a horse to fuss.)

I wouldn't bother with the overcheck right now. It isn't necessary and will actually impede his pulling at this stage in his training. You can add it later if you need it for shows once he learns to "push" the cart. If you are getting a new harness, I would order one with sidechecks instead of the overcheck.

I would also challenge both of you to actively drive the horse. You very much look like passengers. Some of this comes from experience and time in the seat. Like Leia said, holding and using the whip is a start. You will need Fancy to go forward more with time as he gets more used to what you are asking of him. And I concur with Leia regarding your hand position. Drivers should have some bend in their elbows to act as "shock absorbers". Arms that are too straight can get tiring to hold up, and also if the horse decides to put their head down and "snatch" the reins, you could be kissing the singletree! Arms that have too much bend in the elbows have a hard time cueing the horse. And arms/hands should never rest on the legs. (I realize that your husband may not be practicing to show?



) You will also want to take up the "bight" of the reins (leftover part that is on the floor). Leaving it down is a major safety problem, as there is risk of it getting caught on something on the cart (wheels, singletree, etc.) or your feet. You can either hold it in your hand (some reins come with a finger loop to slip over the pinky) or if they are long enough, they can go under your butt on the seat (not between your legs, but to the side!



). Under your butt is probably the easiest for a novice driver.

It is good that you have a broke horse to start out with!



It would be even more beneficial if you can find someone with a "finished" horse to drive (even a big one) to "feel" how it is supposed to feel. That will help A LOT in your own driving. I remember when I was first learning to ride on my "wanna-be-a" show horse. When I got to ride a real show horse, I remember thinking, "Oh, that is how it is supposed to feel!" Then I could go back and ride my "pretend" show horse and bring him along much faster. (I was like 10 years old with a four yr. old grade QH, not a great combo admittedly, but it was what we had at the time....and I learned a lot....like how NOT to do things....



)

Myrna


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 24, 2010)

The harness looks fairly well-adjusted from what I can see of it on a dark horse in winter woolies.



Breastcollar and breeching height in particular look fine and yay for you for using breeching in the first place.



The shafts are a little far forward in the second standing photo but fine in the first one so you may need to tighten the holdbacks a bit.

I am reeeally green! When you say tighten the holdbacks, are you talking about the strap that is attacked to the breeching, or the tugs. 

My biggest comment is that while it's great you guys are carrying a whip on the cart, it does absolutely no good if it's not in your hand. He will quickly learn to ignore your "Step Trot" if he's allowed to get away with not responding as he was in the first video. Ask once, give him a moment and if he doesn't respond touch him with the whip and ask again. I do like how your husband is praising him though! He has a very soothing, confidence-instilling voice. The horse will definitely learn to work for that but having both a "that's right" AND a "that's wrong" indicator will help the horse to learn twice as fast.





The whip seems so huge. If I hold it down at the handle, and cue him with it, it hits him in the head! Or I could hold it in the middle part of it, which feels so awkward. Can I get a short whip/crop, to tap on his behind? I am looking all over our barn for the whip that I used 30 years ago to show my Arabs in halter, but now that I could really use it, it is hiding! 

 

I have a problem with my arms being to farm forward! I will work on it!

 

Thanks for all the nice comments. I will pass them on to my hubby. I have years more horse experience (not driving though) then him, but he is rather a natural, both in a cart and saddle...

 

I will try some other bits on Fancyl Thank you!


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 24, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> The shafts keep slipping forward on him because the breeching straps are WAY too loose. There is nothing to keep the cart from sliding up through the open tugs. You may have to take 1-3 wraps of the straps around the shafts to take up some of the slack. You should have about a flat hand's width between the breeching and the horse's butt at the back.
> 
> Just because the horse is opening his mouth and fussing with the bit doesn't always mean that the problem is in his mouth. Horses express anxiety in their mouth. The problem could be the fit of the harness (pinching somewhere), a muscular or skeletal soreness issue, a mental stress/frustration issue, or the bit itself. Sometimes it takes a bit of trial and error to come up with the correct "fix". (I'm not saying he looks sore or pinched somewhere, but all of these can cause a horse to fuss.)
> 
> ...


Loads of great advice from all of you! Myrna, when you say the breeching is very loose, do you mean the breeching itself on his behind, or the strap that is connecting it to the cart? I wondered what to do with the excess reins...His mouth is quite light for having been driven by children. I will take the overcheck off, and later use a sidecheck. I need a drive instructor! I have several friends nearby, with very finished drivers, who have shown for a long time---I will see if they would give me some lessons. This is rather like learning to drive a car, without the instructor or book! I sure do appreciate all the help and suggestions you folks give me!!!

Wendy


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 24, 2010)

He's adorable!! I'm sorry you feel you have to apologize for "looking too big for him"- I think just about anyone looks too big for a 29" horse!



They're tiny and that's all there is to it.



He doesn't look like he's struggling to pull either one of you so no negative comments here.

I do feel rather self conscious and that people probably are thinking "Why did she get such a little driver?" Well, he is not our only driver and driving is not the only reason we choose him... We have two B size driving mares. We are learning to drive, but we also breed. I love the babies and fat, pregnant mares waddling around! The majority of our broodmares are 31 and under, so any breeding stallion we have needs to be smallish. We also wanted to add a "bit o Buckeroo" to the herd. And I love blue roans. So, we did not pick him because he drives, but other reasons and happily, he drives too.


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## Elizabeth Pannill (Dec 26, 2010)

He is really cute. If you are considering a new easy entry cart that might be a better fit check out GS carts ( www.gscarts.com ) . My trainer has a 30 " mini in for training and a regular Frontier type EE cart was to big for her . She ordered the smaller EE from GS Carts ( made for those under 32 ") and really likes it. It is very light in the shafts and even has breaks. This trainer is used to nice carriages ( for big horses ) with good suspension so for her to say the coil spring suspension on the GS cart gave a smooth ride is something !

Elizabeth


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## ruffian (Dec 26, 2010)

Here's my 2 cents worth. He's cute! Nice balanced trot. Extra points to both of you for wearing the helmet.

IMO both are holding the reins way too loose. You need constant contact with his mouth. The reins flopping and hitting his back isn't good. It's like riding a horse. You don't flop the reins to get him to move, you use your voice and legs. You use the rein to guide him. The voice and whip takes the place of the legs to encourage the horse forward.

I agree you need to sit up straight. It's hard to tell, but it might help to raise the shafts a hole. They should be level or a slight downward slope to the cart. That keeps the weight off the back. With such a little guy, raising them will also help your position in the cart.

I wouldn't worry about him being so small. I drove my 29" gelding to National Top Ten in open driving, so height is NOT an issue in most cases.


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 26, 2010)

Elizabeth Pannill said:


> He is really cute. If you are considering a new easy entry cart that might be a better fit check out GS carts ( www.gscarts.com ) . My trainer has a 30 " mini in for training and a regular Frontier type EE cart was to big for her . She ordered the smaller EE from GS Carts ( made for those under 32 ") and really likes it. It is very light in the shafts and even has breaks. This trainer is used to nice carriages ( for big horses ) with good suspension so for her to say the coil spring suspension on the GS cart gave a smooth ride is something !
> 
> Elizabeth


Very cool! They are quite snazzy looking with the choice of colors and fancier seats. I wonder if I could show in it at fairs to start with? Snazzier than a plain black one...

I was thinking of getting him a EE by this company

http://www.ctmproducts.com/HorseCarts/HorseCarts.htm.

Their car is a couple hundred dollars less, and my friend/trainer likes them. The shaft on this one is 48', which I know is too long for Fancy Pants.

Thank you, Wendy


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 26, 2010)

ruffian said:


> Here's my 2 cents worth. He's cute! Nice balanced trot. Extra points to both of you for wearing the helmet.
> 
> Thank you. We have seen 3 friends come out of their carts this past summer, one sustaining a lingering injuring. It feels safer wearing the harness, since all over body padding isn't available! LOL!
> 
> ...


Would love to see pcitures!


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 26, 2010)

This is what Fancy Pants is used to driving. It's hard to tell if the little boy has a loose rein. In fact, these are the same children he used to drive to school, with another stallion pulling them in this photo. . This Amish family does allow a few pictures, as long as the face is not shown.It is so cool to see all the different uses our minis have!


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## ruffian (Dec 26, 2010)

There is a huge difference in how a 2 wheel vs a 4 wheel cart pulls, so he's doing very well indeed.

I don't have any photos of my Ruffian, but he was short legged, kind of big headed, but had a huge heart and a will do attitude.


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 26, 2010)

ruffian said:


> There is a huge difference in how a 2 wheel vs a 4 wheel cart pulls, so he's doing very well indeed.
> 
> I don't have any photos of my Ruffian, but he was short legged, kind of big headed, but had a huge heart and a will do attitude.


I see you have another really nice tiny driver, Raging Storm. He looks like he has alot of leg for an under 30 incher. All of your horses are lovely!  I adore Cat's Meow! Her foal should fantasticisimo!

(I have a new mare named Chicquita, so I lapse into psuedo-Spanish every now and then!)


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 27, 2010)

wendyluvsminis said:


> Loads of great advice from all of you! Myrna, when you say the breeching is very loose, do you mean the breeching itself on his behind, or the strap that is connecting it to the cart? I wondered what to do with the excess reins...His mouth is quite light for having been driven by children. I will take the overcheck off, and later use a sidecheck. I need a drive instructor! I have several friends nearby, with very finished drivers, who have shown for a long time---I will see if they would give me some lessons. This is rather like learning to drive a car, without the instructor or book! I sure do appreciate all the help and suggestions you folks give me!!!
> 
> Wendy


OK, you probably know what I am going to say, but I would take the overcheck off and put it in the bin and leave it there!

If you want some tips on how to fit in with the AMHAs insane (My opinion!!) rule about mandatory checks, ask Leia, she has a lovely, almost invisible, check that i am pretty sure does nothing but obey the rule!

Your little boy needs to be able to put his head, within limits, where he wants, in order to ba bale to pull properly.

This is true of all horses, but especially so with the tinies.


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## ruffian (Dec 27, 2010)

wendyluvsminis said:


> I see you have another really nice tiny driver, Raging Storm. He looks like he has alot of leg for an under 30 incher. All of your horses are lovely!  I adore Cat's Meow! Her foal should fantasticisimo!
> 
> (I have a new mare named Chicquita, so I lapse into psuedo-Spanish every now and then!)


Thank you! Yep, Stormy is a great little driver. He's in Texas now, after getting AMHR Reserve National Champion in CP driving last year! His son, Raging Komotion, is going to be good too, he's about 30 1/2"

Kitty - aka Top Cat's Meow - had a "fantasticisimo" colt this year, and we are hoping for another good foal in 2011 by Thumper.


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## RhineStone (Dec 28, 2010)

wendyluvsminis said:


> Myrna, when you say the breeching is very loose, do you mean the breeching itself on his behind, or the strap that is connecting it to the cart?


Yes. The breeching is loose because the breeching straps are loose. Here is a chart that I did last year that names the parts of the harness, but it also shows the breeching straps wrapped three times to take up the slack and give the proper snugness of the breeching (about one flat hand between the horse and the breeching). http://rhinestone-ridge.wikispaces.com/file/view/Cart+and+Harness+Parts.pdf  You put the breeching strap through the footman's loop on the shaft from the inside out. Then wrap the strap in front of the loop as many times as it takes to take up the slack. After the last wrap, you can either tuck the bight under all the wraps before you buckle it, or just under the first wrap. The reason for tucking the bight under the wraps is to add an extra measure of safety in case the breeching strap buckle breaks. The leather will grip itself and hold for a while, giving you a little time to stop before it causes a real accident.

Once you have the breeching straps attached correctly, you may have to go back and adjust them again before you move off. It is pretty common for us to even adjust them after we make a round or two with a new horse, harness, or cart because we may not be happy with how it is adjusted. So don't be surprised if it takes a few rounds to figure out where it works best. Snug is better than loose (as you are finding out with the cart running up on the horse), but if the breeching is too high and snug, it will cause your horse to be goosed and he may buck.



wendyluvsminis said:


> This is rather like learning to drive a car, without the instructor or book!


Good thing you figured that out!






Having a good instructor is the easiest, safest, and most productive way to learn to drive.

Myrna


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## wendyluvsminis (Dec 28, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Yes. The breeching is loose because the breeching straps are loose. Here is a chart that I did last year that names the parts of the harness, but it also shows the breeching straps wrapped three times to take up the slack and give the proper snugness of the breeching (about one flat hand between the horse and the breeching). http://rhinestone-ridge.wikispaces.com/file/view/Cart+and+Harness+Parts.pdf
> 
> What a wonderful diagram! Very helpful!
> 
> ...


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 28, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Yes. The breeching is loose because the breeching straps are loose.


The breeching straps are also commonly referred to as the holdback straps, which I find easy to remember given that they hold the cart back.






Leia


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## RhineStone (Dec 28, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> The breeching straps are also commonly referred to as the holdback straps, which I find easy to remember given that they hold the cart back.


But I have also heard Footman's Loops referred to as holdbacks. I think that either is correct.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 28, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> But I have also heard Footman's Loops referred to as holdbacks. I think that either is correct.


Hmm. I would agree that "holdbacks" or "breeching straps" are both potentially correct for the harness part but don't believe "holdback" is a correct term for the Footman's loops. Time to dive into the harness books and look!





Leia


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## susanne (Dec 28, 2010)

I love your diagram, Myrna, and I actually learned two new terms...

My cart has the "goofy-looking husband," although I never knew the correct term. We appear to be missing the "cute 6-year-old son." Did our cart manufacturer forget to include this, or was it an oversight on our part?


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## ThreePonies (Dec 29, 2010)

Try a Myler comfort bit...pricey but so worth it http://starlakefarm.com/bitsmylar.html and have you tried wrapping the bit? Amish-trained minis have often been used to inconsistent yanking on their mouths...cute little fellow!


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## RhineStone (Dec 29, 2010)

susanne said:


> We appear to be missing the "cute 6-year-old son." Did our cart manufacturer forget to include this, or was it an oversight on our part?


We don't have the "cute 6-year-old son" anymore, either. Now we have a 9-year-old son! I don't know where the 6 yr. old went!





Myrna


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