# team driving



## weerunner (Nov 10, 2010)

I have two single harnesses. What extra pieces would i need just to ground drive a team. I dont' have collars just breast straps. It is even possible to do, or do I need to buy a whole new team harness.


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## RhineStone (Nov 10, 2010)

It is possible, but to answer your question as to what is needed, I would say "a coach". Get somebody knowledgable to help you.

For example, my husband and sister got a bug and decided to try to drive a tandem (yes, I know you asked about a pair), so they hodge-podged a harness together and "drove" them. However, when we actually got a lesson, it went a WHOLE lot better!




Even if you have single experience, driving two horses requires a bit of a different set of skills.

I haven't put together a pair in years, so hopefully someone else can help you with the parts. And check out drivingpairs.com

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 10, 2010)

weerunner said:


> I have two single harnesses. What extra pieces would i need just to ground drive a team. I dont' have collars just breast straps. It is even possible to do, or do I need to buy a whole new team harness.


As far as I know, for JUST ground-driving you can get away with a set of pair reins and some baling twine connecting their breeching together in some manner so they can't spin around in opposite directions and end up facing you with the reins hopelessly tangled. If you set them up with a drag tire with a long bar you can hook all four of their traces to that would help as it would keep their rumps in line and teach them to stop and start together. Then you wouldn't need the baling twine unless you wanted to use it to keep their front ends a certain distance apart.

Leia


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## weerunner (Nov 11, 2010)

That is a very interesting website. There's a heck of a lot more to driving pairs than I had thought. Thanks so much for the info and I'll look into the pairs driving reins, maybe a christmas present.


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## RhineStone (Nov 11, 2010)

weerunner said:


> There's a heck of a lot more to driving pairs than I had thought.


THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for realizing that.



("Phew"....breathes sigh of relief....)

I think there are probably a whole lot of people out there (not necessarily the OP) that think you can just cobble a couple of horses together and they will drive right off. It doesn't work that way.



And that perception is very frustrating to those of us that know better. Not only is it unsafe, but it "degrades" the work that true pair drivers do.

In as much as I have seen what some mini owners do to their horses, it is just a good thing that minis are _generally_ pretty tolerant of a lot of stuff.

I'm not referring to Leia's post that binder twineing them together would be a bad thing. Actually, that is the accepted way to put a tandem together the first time, as you can cut the strings easily. Moreso what I am saying is that people don't understand the risks involved before they just try something without the benefit of knowledgeable, physically present help. You wouldn't fly an airplane without an instructor. Why do people think they can learn to drive a horse from a how-to website?





Again, written for the masses, not necessarily the OP. I don't know the OP's experience-level, either. Off my soapbox.





Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 11, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> ...And that perception is very frustrating to those of us that know better. Not only is it unsafe, but it "degrades" the work that true pair drivers do. ... You wouldn't fly an airplane without an instructor. Why do people think they can learn to drive a horse from a how-to website?


Just my own thoughts here, but frankly *it is not rocket science.* Every Joe and his mother _did_ simply hitch up and drive not so very many generations ago. And yes, because of ignorance the horses suffered. And yes, there were many preventable accidents. Education is GOOD! Horse sense, in combination with common sense, is GOOD! Getting a knowledgable instructor is GOOD! Without in-person help, you are probably never going to do it well or perhaps not even better than "did it without killing myself."

But I don't think there's any such thing as "true pair drivers" who are performing an art which can be "degraded." There are those who drive horses as an art, and those who drive any two horses for fun. The existence of one type of driver does not invalidate the other.

I know an awful lot of agricultural drivers, recreational drivers, harness racers, and show drivers who would be rather offended to find out their methods of enjoying their horses "degrade" other drivers.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Nov 11, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> I think there are probably a whole lot of people out there (not necessarily the OP) that *think you can just cobble a couple of horses together and they will drive right off*. It doesn't work that way.
> 
> 
> 
> And that perception is very frustrating to those of us that know better. Not only is it unsafe, but it "degrades" the work that true pair drivers do.





hobbyhorse23 said:


> Every Joe and his mother _did_ simply hitch up and drive not so very many generations ago.
> 
> But I don't think there's any such thing as "true pair drivers" who are performing an art which can be "degraded." There are those who drive horses as an art, and those who drive any two horses for fun. The existence of one type of driver does not invalidate the other.
> 
> I know an awful lot of agricultural drivers, recreational drivers, harness racers, and show drivers who would be rather offended to find out their methods of enjoying their horses "degrade" other drivers.


Again, I don't think you read my whole post, or you think you know what you read, but what you read was not what I meant.





I didn't say anything about the drivers that you mentioned above "degrading" true pair drivers! What I said was that there are people that just think they can "hitch up and go" (read bolded print that you deleted). ANY educated driver no matter what the discipline knows that you have to _train_ a horse to do anything. True pair drivers know that for any driving discipline, just because the horse is broke to be a single driving horse doesn't mean that there won't be _some_ learning curve for it to go in any other configuration. They also know that they _themselves_ need to have education to do it correctly. I know people who have been driving singles successfully for years that search out instruction to drive other configurations, including ourselves. Heck, there are stupid people out there that think that you can just buy a crap harness off of Ebay, throw it on the horse and hook it to a wheelbarrow and call it "driving". And then they get upset because of the "stupid pony".





And those drivers who did just hitch up and go a number of generations ago also used horses every day and more than likely had a whole lot more "horse sense" than people nowadays that keep them for recreation. We also now know that there are a whole lot more effective techniques than "hitch up and go". Just ask the lawyers and insurance companies.

And yes, I do get a bit concerned when I see other "drivers" doing things that just "aren't done" in the industry. Case in point: we went to a corn maze this fall, and included was a "wagon ride" to the pumpkin patch. Those drivers had me a little more than concerned when they stopped and wrapped the lines (reins) around the brake and leaned up against the front of the wagon to give us directions. They weren't watching the horses, they weren't holding the reins. Granted, the horses were probably ready for a "break" anyway, but you just never know what can happen. (Bee stings, small child, sonic boom, etc.)

Yes, people might think that I am "too" cautious, but when push comes to shove and an accident _does_ happen, the lawyers will look at what the accepted practice is in the industry. I _was_ involved in an accident with those "calm" draft horses where a number of people were injured because one horse slipped it's bridle. The horses went into a full gallop, and both the "teamster" (driver) and the "swamper" (groom or header) were thrown from the wagon, as well as some passengers, resulting in some broken bones (could have been a lot worse. Look at the Iowa parade situation). Fortunately, I was on the other wagon, but I saw the results. We would have never guessed that was going to happen with that team. Knowing what I know now, we were _undereducated_ as employees in driving a "team". Basically it was, "Well, here is how you put them together, now just drive them like you ride." The team finally stopped when they "split" a tree and ran the pole up it. What we finally determined is that one horse rubbed it's bridle on the other while they were loading the group. An educated "swamper" would have known not to allow that of the horses. He was standing right in front of them when they did it, the near horse got the bridle over his right ear, and he didn't notice. As they were driving at a good clip, the bridle slipped off. It happens.

When we put together the Midwest Young Drivers Camp last year, we required that the kids have some driving experience before they would be accepted into the camp. I had a number of parents call me up and want to know if little Susie could come because she "drove" the draft horses on some wagon ride at some resort the year before. It's definitely that type of attitude that _does_ degrade driving! No, it's not _rocket science_, but it's not _child's play_, either.

Myrna (who is reading Laura Ingalls Wilder's These Golden Happy Years with her son right now, and using it as a "teachable moment" on how they used to break horses to drive.)


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 11, 2010)

Mickey and I read These Happy Golden Years together too and I got a chuckle out of Laura and Alonzo's methods - wish I had miles and miles of open prairie.





I too am glad that the poster has realized that driving teams are a whole new ballgame. I would also like to stress that it is _at least _twice as dangerous training a team as training a single and it quite often makes me shudder reading a reply from some well-meaning person without a great deal of experience who blithely hands out training ideas to someone who may or may not have enough experience to put them into practice without getting injured.

I think Myra's advice for what was needed - "someone knowledgeable to help" was the VERY BEST piece of advice that you could give someone looking to drive a team not JUST to make things easier or more successful but because if you don't know what you are doing you just may get yourself or someone else severely injured or killed.


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