# Example of harness made by local Amish



## SappyAppy (Mar 19, 2013)

A friend sent me this pic, I hope it comes out clear enough to be useful. This is a mini harness she had made, in the $175 to $200 range. It's not exactly what I would like but maybe you pro drivers have some feedback about the general harness? Thanks in advance.


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## rbrown (Mar 19, 2013)

Not an expert by any means, but from what I can see it looks nice for $175! The saddle looks like it has a tree from the pic, but that's something I would ask about. I would ask for a better pic of the saddle to try to see if it will give your mini enough wither/spine clearance (My narrow/high withered mare really needs a treed saddle with a lot of wither clearance, but my "fluffy" mare would probably be just fine in a well-padded saddle with much less spine clearance- depends on your horse's conformation). Personally, conway buckles drive me nuts (it might just be me, but they are such a pain to adjust!!), but that certainly wouldn't be a dealbreaker. If you're going to be putting on/taking off the reins for every drive, I would ask if you could get roller buckles on the reins, and other pieces that require frequent buckling/adjusting. The last thing that caught my eye is the bridle- I would see if they can swap out the overcheck for a noseband/cavesson, but that is just my personal preference for driving bridles.


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## SappyAppy (Mar 19, 2013)

My thoughts ran along the same lines, but open to advice! I will be going to the harness maker who made that harness within the next week, just making sure of what I want first and taking the time to get it right. It will be custom so I can order it exactly as I please. Then when he gives me the price I'll have to get realistic I'm sure, but for now I'm trying to choose exactly what I'd most want all around.

I was going to ask for an extended saddle and make sure it's treed, as well as inquire about a sliding saddle.

Yes LOTS less conways, I hate them and think they are just plain ugly if nothing else. I was also going to see if all hardware could be brass as the cart has brass shaft tips and I'd like to add a brass rein rail. That would be correct yes? Not sure how expensive that would make things but worth thinking about. It seems easiest to have snaps at the bit end of the reins, is that not acceptable?

I'm going to ask if he can make me a wide, padded, v shaped breastcollar. Might not be a standard option but that sure seems like a huge advantage to the mini's comfort so hopefully he could do that. If not I might have to buy stock elsewhere. I think this is important and gives me lots of versatility down the road in case we want to do some CDE stuff someday.

I don't think I'd want an overcheck most likely would I? I read Black Beauty and seems like a bad idea LOL. Side checks seem more popular, should I get it set up like that? Side checks and cavesson?

Add padding at the neck strap, almost forgot that one.

I think the general construction details look pretty good but I'm no expert. I don't dislike the looks of beta but part of me is still picturing him in russet with the cart redone in a deep oak with burgundy and gold trim


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## rbrown (Mar 19, 2013)

Yes, if your cart has brass hardware it would be appropriate to have brass hardware on your harness. Replacing the shaft tips wouldn't be difficult, though, if you needed to switch them over to stainless.

I don't use snaps on my reins. I went to a clinic where the clinician snapped a rope to the metal railing and had us all put our hands out to touch the fence, and feel the vibration from the metal-on-metal. The point was to show us what it feels like when we directly attach metal to a horse's bit- I have no idea if that's accurate at all, but it's stuck with me for years!

I think that most people who use a check prefer a sidecheck versus overcheck. You wouldn't need to use a check for carriage driving/ADS events, but I believe you need a check for breed show events- someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Burgundy, gold, and oak is my favorite color scheme! I think it looks so classy. My new cart has burgundy wheels with oak "accents" and I just love the way it looks




If you end up re-doing your cart, please post pics!!


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 19, 2013)

Well, you can get rid of half the conways by putting the check rein straight in the bin (This is my pet peeve, my mission, and I choose to accept it!- is to rid the US of checkreins, since they are the only place in the world that uses them) I agree that looks a nice harness over all, but I should like to see it set out on a rail if you can't go and see it in person. I think it does already have a noseband, and it certainly needs one if I am mistaken.


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## SappyAppy (Mar 19, 2013)

I will visit the Amish man who made it directly, he's about half hours drive from me. So I can see lots of samples of his work. Rabbitsfizz, do you mean no overcheck or no sidechecks either? Educate me, I truly know nothing.


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## Rhondaalaska (Mar 20, 2013)

I took my check rein compleatly off. If you get one get it so you can remove it and only use it if you have too.

The looser the better I was told. Expecialy if you have any hills where you will drive.

My girl puts her head lower when she pulls up a hill and a check rein wouldn't let her if it was on.

I have steep hills here.


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## rbrown (Mar 20, 2013)

I only see the top half of a noseband in the picture, but it's hard to tell. I would also suggest not using a sidecheck or overcheck at all. Like Rhondaalaska, my minis like to put their heads down especially over hills and in deeper footing, and I encourage them to stretch and go long and low, so a check would be counterproductive for that. If you think you may need a check for something like breed shows, I'd suggest getting a removeable sidecheck.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Mar 20, 2013)

Nothing I can add really. I would swap the overcheck for a removable side check and then remove it (it pays to get it in case you choose to do breed shows or sell the harness in future to someone who does) The conways _*would*_ be a deal breaker for me, they are such a pain, hard to adjust and rather unattractive to boot. I will never pay for another harness with them. I think with the modifications you describe it should be a fairly decent harness. The snap ends on the reins may seem like a good idea but most of the time the snap will not then fit thro the rein terret (for some reason those who add the snaps never seem to check that sizing first



)and the snaps are also more likely to snag on something or get unsnapped from the bit altogether, both rather scary scenarios.


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 20, 2013)

I agree about the snaps- I tried them and found I could not find a set that would fit through the terrets, which was a pain . I think a decent buckle is just as quick TBH, and much safer.

I do not use check reins at all- they just are not used here and you do not have to use them in show classes, either- in fact you are not allowed to use them, in BDS classes, except on Hackneys, and they are optional in Mini classes- I have NO idea why the AMHA/R have made them mandatory- optional seems a far more reasonable rule.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Mar 20, 2013)

I agree with you about the check, have heard it said it is for 'safety' but honestly people either use them adjusted so loosely that they are at best useless and at worst a hazard or so tight the horse can not lower its head to see where it is going (most of us have seen those unfortunate horses with the check cranking their heads high and the martingale holding it down so they are stuck with one spot - its a wonder some of these horses agree to move a single step IMO ) I guess to get the change from mandatory to optional enough people have to ask for it.


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## SappyAppy (Mar 20, 2013)

I can't imagine wanting to actually control his head to that degree, but could see some value to having such an option in case it's needed, and the ability to remove it when not needed.


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## susanne (Mar 20, 2013)

> I don't use snaps on my reins. I went to a clinic where the clinician snapped a rope to the metal railing and had us all put our hands out to touch the fence, and feel the vibration from the metal-on-metal. The point was to show us what it feels like when we directly attach metal to a horse's bit- I have no idea if that's accurate at all, but it's stuck with me for years!


Good demonstration, but the clinician should have had everyone put their teeth on the rail to truly show what the horse feels!


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## paintponylvr (Mar 20, 2013)

It is an excellant harness for the cost. It's similar to what I started with (& still use), along with my collar and hames harness(s).

Now, I'm upgrading. With the amish company I deal with, I can have the conways removed and sewn in buckles put on. The cost goes up!

You have them leave off the 1/2 noseband (styled after a full size draft horse, work bridle - attaches at the buckle that is attaching to the bit) and either get a cavesson w/ a "hanger" (like a huntstyle english brildle) or run a single strap thru the open area of the bit attachment. Think the cost will remain about the same.

If you think you will be doing any breed showing - have the headstall made so that you can get a side check later. Then either purchase it w/o the any checks at all or with the side check now.

I think they use snaps automatically on all their "entry level" harness. Not sure why... For me - I'm having several new sets of lines made - w/ sewn in buckles and no snaps. However, I do like snaps - makes it soooo much easier when working thru out the day with many horses. Mine came with snaps that fit thru the rein terrets on the pleasure harness and the rein rings on a work harness (on the hames) are much, much larger...

Also - double check the headstall. One way to save costs is using rivets. Again, I opted to have mine sewn and that raised my price. Suddenly you don't have that $175 harness! BUT you do have one that is affordably priced, and very usable though still an entry level harness.

I think when I matched some brass harness that I have - the cost for brass was a little more than stainless steel. Stainless steel is stronger and easier to care for (for me). Your color scheme sounds FANTASTIC!! Pretty.

Look at getting a brown harness. It won't be the "chestnut" color, nor the "lite" that is so popular w/ the QH (riding) folk, but it will be brown. Russet leather harness darkens over time - with oiling and with sweat. Did see someone had on another post that there is a product that conditions the russet w/o darkening it - and it protects it from most sweat color changes too... For that matter - your amish harness maker may have access to the different shades of beta.

BTW - the Camptown, the Comfy fit and the Country Carriages beta/bio thane harness(s) are all Amish made (though think thru different Amish communities/suppliers). It's all that extra attention to "little" details that makes those harness (s) commensurately more expensive than the other Amish made harness that I consider "entry level" type harness...

Please let us know how you do and what you decide on. Pictures, of course, are a "must"...





One other thing. My amish company I deal alot with (Fairview Country sales, Millersburg, OH) uses small pony harness to fit the larger mini's. The lines for a "mini" harness are too short for my horses - especially since I do a lot of ground driving, too. Other things might be sized different as well. The nice thing - I can get custom orders, as it sounds like your are going to do!!


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## Marsha Cassada (Mar 21, 2013)

I do not see the crupper. Is it rolled, or flat leather? My friend has an entry-level harness with a flat crupper and it looks very uncomfortable for the horse.

Very interesting about the snaps on the reins. People so often go for convenience and don't think about how it affects the horse and his performance.

I hate conway buckles. It's not so bad on areas where one makes adjustments infrequently, such as the checks, but otherwise they are devilish. If one doesn't use the check at all, then the conway there is not an issue and could save you some money if you are customizing.


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## SappyAppy (Mar 21, 2013)

I use snaps on all my riding horses working reins and never considered that they might be unkind to my horses. Just goes to prove that in the horse world you never stop learning.

I have even more ideas for customizing my harness now and yes it will be fit right to him, not sure if I'll haul him out there for measuring or just carefully measure myself. I found a chart that shows where to do all the measurements for custom harness.

What I'm going to be requesting will in the end be about the same as the Comfy Fit harness but with no middle man involved so it should be considerably less money by going right to the shop to have it made.

Anyone ever seen brown beta? Somehow I wonder if it will have sort of a cheesy look to it versus black.


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## SappyAppy (Mar 21, 2013)

After giving it some consideration it seems wisest to just touch up or repaint the cart for this year and strip and refinish it next year. Since we are totally new to driving it seems likely we are going to add our own dings to the finish anyway(i hope not though). And that way we can get started sooner. It's currently dark green with red pin striping. I guess I'll probably have to pain the whole thing and will lose the pin striping for this year, not sure it would be possible to get a close enough match otherwise. So maybe it would be smartest to just get the black harness? That would be a match whether it's painted or wood finished I think, any other opinions?


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## Never2Mini (Mar 21, 2013)

I am looking into buying a Harness here soon this thread has been very helpful I love this forum.





SappyAppy I like you use snaps on my riding horses reins. Never thought of them as being unkind till now. You are right there is always something to learn with horses. That is one reason I love fooling with them.

I have seen brown beta halter/bridle combo's for trail riding on ebay but never seen the brown in person. You might want to take a look at ebay just to get an idea what it looks like. I keep going back and forth if I wnt leather or beta for my harness. So many choices.


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## SappyAppy (Mar 21, 2013)

Me too Never2mini, this forum has great helpful people and have taught me so much already. I'm sure however the final harness choices come out I've already saved myself alot of grief by learning so many things about what NOT to use and what not to do.

I love leather too, beta is so practical and would save me tons of cleaning time that I probably don't have and will ultimately likely neglect to the detriment of the leather. So truly I think I have to choose beta, like it or not!


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## rbrown (Mar 21, 2013)

susanne said:


> Good demonstration, but the clinician should have had everyone put their teeth on the rail to truly show what the horse feels!


Ouch!! That really would've gotten the point across!





As far as picking a color, I'd go with black unless I knew for sure I had a cart that a russet harness would be appropriate with- unless, of course, you're not going to be showing, in which case I'd just pick the color I liked the best.

Edited to add:

Here are ADS "rules" from the rulebook for when a russet harness is appropriate:

3. Black harness is considered appropriate with painted vehicles, with shaft and pole trimmings done in black. It is also considered appropriate with a natural wood vehicle with iron parts painted any color except brown. Shaft and pole trimmings, dash and fenders are done in black.

Russet harness is considered appropriate with:

a) Natural wood vehicle with brown or black iron,

b) Painted vehicle with natural wood panels with any color iron or

c) Vehicle that is painted brown with brown iron. Shaft and pole trimmings should match the harness.


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## SappyAppy (Mar 21, 2013)

Black it is then!


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## susanne (Mar 21, 2013)

paintponylvr,

Have you received a quote for your upgraded harness? Can you post photos, or repost photos that show your current Amish harness (esp. close-up shots)?

I'd love to purchase an Amish harness direct from the source, but ordering from a distance without seeing the harness either in person or via online photos makes me uncomfortable, especially without a guarantee of return/exchange if things are not right.


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## paintponylvr (Mar 22, 2013)

susanne said:


> paintponylvr,
> 
> Have you received a quote for your upgraded harness? Can you post photos, or repost photos that show your current Amish harness (esp. close-up shots)?
> 
> I'd love to purchase an Amish harness direct from the source, but ordering from a distance without seeing the harness either in person or via online photos makes me uncomfortable, especially without a guarantee of return/exchange if things are not right.


Ummm, I got quotes last year (late summer) but haven't ordered it yet (purchased several sets of mini sized, draft style harness at that time). The harness that I matched - I was at their shop and took in a saddle I'd found at a "garage sale". They actually had one harness in stock that matched it in the size that I needed (mini) and they sold me the parts I needed (the breast collar w/ traces, headstall & lines - all with brass rather than the normal stainless steel I usually get). I would need to find my receipts...can't put my hands on them right now.












This is off the shelf or stock. I've since removed the overcheck, it's got rivets instead of sewing at some of the attachement points. I can take pics tomorrow close up of this headstall and the breast collar. I don't have a pleasure saddle or breeching made by this company yet...

I found my quote on making changes - but it's for a different type of harness... I will need to call them next week - both to get the pricing and to order my harness... Right now, they are actually (should be) in NC for the Draft Horse Sale in Troutman. I'm not going this time around (I usually don't in March as this is the weekend of both my husband's and our 1st daughter's Bdays).


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## Jetiki (Mar 26, 2013)

I have a russet beta harness from Country Carriages. pics were taken by Hoofclix photography in 2009 at the Carolina Carriage Club HDT. I hope this picture isn't too big. this is me and my horse.

.


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## SappyAppy (Mar 26, 2013)

What a lovely picture and your horse is wonderful. The overall color scheme is even better with his shade. I'm very impressed with the looks of the russet beta. now I'm also wondering about the two tone beta and whether that might work for my potential color change to wood.


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## Rhondaalaska (Mar 26, 2013)

I love your horse . Jetiki

How big is it. And what is his/ her name.

I am a sucker for pintos.


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## Jetiki (Mar 26, 2013)

I like the two toned Beta, but not on Chesnut horses. Just my personal opinion. They do look fabulous on black/dark bay and greys





My baby girl, she is 35" at last mane hairs or 36" at the withers. her registered name is Southern Classic Rainy Day Toy. She is a driving fool. It is her thing and she passes it on to her foals. This was a training level test, we are now going prelim and have come a long way. I think we got a 43 on this test. We won training level. We got 9 for presentation. I love this cart, it is SO super comfortable, but heavy, I have gotten a much lighter cart to play with on marathons.


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