# Training blog, day 421.7



## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 18, 2010)

I really should be formally blogging this stuff but just can't seem to keep up my motivation.




So instead I'm being a pest and sharing here! Hope ya'll don't mind.

So I had the boys out on Thursday just before dark and was looking around for something fun to work with them on. Spotting the metal easy entry in the cart shed I pulled it out with much "help" from my little friends and started rolling it down the fenced driveway. Turbo thought this was awesome and started trying to herd the cart, nipping at the wheels and the seat back and the shafts and generally being studdy. (He was frustrated because I'd been gone four days and then rained out for a few when I got back so he hadn't been out.) After a few minutes he settled down to work walking calmly beside the cart, stopping and starting when I did. I set the shafts down on the ground and found with some amusement that Turbo was perfectly happy to immediately step over them to investigate the cart in detail so I started walking around the cart with him following me. This got pretty funny in a hurry as he would actually trot around the cart trying to catch up to me and when I'd manage to get on the other side of it from him and suddenly change directions he was leaping back and forth like a cutting horse trying to guess which way I'd go!






There was no studdiness in this, his ears were up and he was having as much fun as I was.

Since he's been taught to go over ground poles off voice commands and body signals (properly, with his head down and stepping cleanly over the poles,) I followed the spirit of play we were engaged in and asked him to step over the resting shafts like elevated poles. He thought this was awesome and learned that sometimes the cart would move if he bumped the shaft with a foot and not to worry about it. (No, I don't recommend doing this with your driving horse. It's not good for the cart, potential for injury, blah blah blah. I knew the risks and was being careful!) Anyway, he did great with that and was looking at me like "What next?" I lifted the cart shafts and asked him to walk forward between them, which he did quite calmly. We worked in small stages until he'd not only line up on the shafts and walk into them but walk all the way up to the singletree and stand there with his head over it, then back out on command. He tried once or twice to turn around and face me to get his goodie and hit the shafts which caused some momentary irritation but he froze when I told him to and never got scared. He just figured out that he wasn't supposed to be going sideways when Mom said "back up" and that was the end of it.



I eyed him speculatively at that point and thought, "Oh, what the heck." I asked him to walk on and simultaneously rolled the cart forward a little, at which point my youngster promptly walked off between the shafts and "pushed" the cart all the way down the driveway!



He thought that was great fun and stopped and started nicely off voice commands.

We quit there and I asked Kody if he wanted to play. I was a little taken aback to discover that to him the cart was clearly an object of some reluctance and he really didn't want to have anything to do with it. This is my horse who loves to drive and can't wait to be harnessed, mind you! I dropped my own ambitions for the day and focused 100% on coaxing him into little steps that I could praise him for and raise his level of enjoyment. He figured out walking over the shafts and chasing me around it and such but that's about as far as we got. I sat down on the cart seat at the end and both Kody and Turbo approached me, one on each side. Turbo recently learned about putting his foot up on a pedestal or on or in a bucket so he looked at me, looked at the shafts and quite calmly put a foot over the shaft and rested his ankle there! Kody, the king of Step Up and not to be outdone, promptly matched him on the other side. It was quite funny- I have pictures. I sat there feeding them goodies and watching them touch noses over my knees and thought that life was good.





So yesterday I got out there again and this time let Kody out first by himself. I grabbed the cart and clicked him for coming over to see it, then took off running and laughed and praised him for following at a canter. He thought that was fun and began to view the whole thing with much more interest. I spent a good 20 minutes with the attitude of "Hey, can you do...this? Good job! What about this? Or this? Yay, Kody!!" until he was practically beaming at his own success and up for any challenge. The things he'd been really reluctant about the previous day he was doing quite happily by the time we were done and Turbo was going nuts in the paddock watching him. He wanted so badly to be part of things! I ignored him though and kept my focus 100% on Kody, which is what he needed right then.



I took that attitude of pride he'd developed and asked him to do his Spanish Walk steps, lifting one foreleg at a time in a big upward motion. He does that quite well but hadn't yet figured out how to do it when moving, something I wanted him to learn before next spring. He was really _feeling_ the pride right at that moment though and was up on his toes and forward and dancing after me so I followed my instincts and gave him the cue to lift his leg at the same time. He got it! I made a HUGE fuss and told him what a smart wonderful pony he was and asked him to do it again. In moments he was walking after me, doing a Spanish Walk step with his left foreleg every other stride.



I told him he was the most wonderful pony in the world and drowned him in praise as he marched up the fenceline flashing that forefoot. Turbo, of course, was following us and I noticed with amusement he was lifting his forelegs too trying to get my attention.

I switched horses at that point, tossing Kody some hay to keep him busy. Long story short, Turbo remembered everything we'd done the day before and within just a couple of minutes was walking up and down the hill in between the shafts like he was pulling the cart. Keep in mind I don't have any tack at all on my horses during this stuff; they're just loose in a fenced area and doing whatever they find interesting. Thankfully, they find me and their training very interesting indeed!

I put the cart down at that point and Turbo tried to do his habitual turn-around-and-back-compulsively-into-Mom thing which I've been trying to break him of for over a year. He's gotten pretty good at turning around to face me instead but has never mastered the command to move forward off of me. If you try to insist with a whip he gets defensive and nails your kneecap (which REALLY gets him whipped, but that's another subject!) Anyway, just like with Kody and his Spanish Walk it felt like the right moment to ask him so I said "Ahht, walk on!" and to my immense delight he did! He got a major click-and-treat and I had him do it again. He finally GOT it, and quickly learned to hustle into position ahead of me when told to and walked in line with his ears forward, back swinging and head bobbing like a proper little driving pony. He's not that solid on "whoa" when leading yet so I was surprised when he stopped immediately upon hearing it from ahead of me. After some resultant praise, I asked him to walk off and whoa again which he did perfectly. Getting excited now, I had him turn right at the end of the lane and walk halfway back, then stop, then walk and then trot. He stayed right ahead of me the entire time and maintained his distance no matter what speed I went, neither anxious and waiting for me nor speeding off without me. I was so pleased! Learning to move forward instead of only back when having his butt to me really flipped a switch in his head and for the first time he was able to stand calmly in front of me without wanting to back up or do anything stupid.

Happy, happy, happy....

We played that game for a few more minutes with Kody watching us benevolently from the paddock (also unusual) and I finally had Turbo whoa then turned my back on him and walked over to Kody to give him a treat. Turbo did break but only after I had fed Kody and turned back to him so I reset his position, said "Whoa, Stand" again and repeated my trip to Kody without the goodie. This time he froze without even looking at me, totally relaxed, and waited while I came back and walked all the way around him before giving him his click. What a good pony! That's the first time I've done the true "walk away and forget about him, expect him to still be there" thing that I can do with Kody and I was really proud that he lived up to it. He also then allowed me to walk away, go up the side of the compost heap, walk along above his head, then slip down the side of the heap ahead of him and not move. I can really see my driving horse taking shape!

So that's where we're at and I appreciate anyone who's taken the time to read this far. I write this stuff more for me than for you to be honest but once written I might as well share it.





Pix to come if anyone wants them! I'm out there by myself so it's just the view from the seat of the boys with their legs resting on opposite shafts, but it's pretty cute.





Leia

P.S.- I hate having to do this disclaimer stuff, but yes I know that having their legs hooked over the shafts is very dangerous and stupid. Kody did slip a foot down between the shaft brace and the shaft at one point and pulled back, carefully dragging me a foot or two before he got free. Both horses have been worked through progressive levels of difficulty putting their feet on or in various objects and learned not to panic when they get a little stuck. They generally wait for Mom to get them free or think their way out of the problem. While I'm not in any way saying that makes this stunt okay, it wasn't something they did out of the blue that I thought was cute or recommend anyone else to try.


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## studiowvw (Dec 18, 2010)

Happy to read all and share the fun!

I often work with the horses alone and it is a real pain to not have anyone to share with when something goes great.

Sometimes I put the handycam out and then I can download and watch it later, which can be very entertaining





Looking forward to pics.

Wilma


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## Raine Ranch Minis (Dec 18, 2010)

I thought that was sweet. And really smart horses by the way!!!!



Yes, I want to see Pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## targetsmom (Dec 18, 2010)

Enjoyed reading about your smart boys and your training progress. And, yes, would like to see pictures!

Mary


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## candycar (Dec 19, 2010)

Sounds like great fun! Keep up the blogging. PICS NOW


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## drivin*me*buggy (Dec 19, 2010)

Leia,

That's awesome! I love hearing about your boys and esp. how Turbo is coming along. I agree though, we need pix It is so much fun to see things "click" and come together



Keep posting...I find reading what others are doing gives me ideas and keeps me motivated, even in the cold.

Here's my day yesterday with my fuzzballs....

I drove both horses yesterday. Wish was asking at the gate when I brought the harness out, so I went and got the Frontier and also brought the 'Bike out for Buck.

I brought Wish out and lunged her lightly to warm her up. Then harnessed her up. I had to make a few adjustments do to her thick coat and ummm fluffiness...We hitched and drove off. She was a bit full of it but listening...man she has a big stride compared to Buck.

As we rounded the house for the first time, a big red tailed hawk flew about 12 feet in the air right in front of us...she was ok...I drove her, keeping her working and watching for any scary monsters when Buck decided that it was NO FAIR that he didn't get to drive first and bolted out of the barn, bucking, kicking, blowing and pitching an absolute fit! Wish's head came up and you could tell she was like - holy cow- what's he upset about, maybe I should be afraid.....but she managed to keep it together and we kept working, as I didn't want to let her think we stopped just because some craziness started in the world. I mainly walked her then, asking for the occasional transition to a trot to keep her mind on me...Buck continued to race around the barn, running up behind us...But Wish remained steady. Normally the little red brat is driven first then munches hay while I work her...

After about 20 min work for her we called it a lesson and unhitched.

I then took Buck out and drove him for a half hour in the 'Bike. He was a good boy overall, though he did have one little bucking episode- which he has never done, when we were trotting up towards the driveway...we went thru a little snow that was in the shade and I was encourage him to really trot out when he pitched a little bucking fit- youthful exuberance I think.. He had a properly adjusted kicking strap which kept us safe and then I proceeded to work him more, as goofy nonsense does not get one excused from work around here..

The footing was a little slick in spots so we had to be careful. Parts of the yard were frozen and parts were thawing mud but we learned what was where and had a good time.

Afterwards they both stood tied for about a half hour as I cleaned up around the barn,. Then I used some Green spot remover on their grungier spots, washed Wish's tail, and gave them a snack.

Angie


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## Carriage (Dec 19, 2010)

Congratulations Miss Leia! ,

I DO understand the significance of the milestones achieved in your training regimen. Actually regimen might not be the right word as it speaks to inflexibility. The trainers biggest bane is inflexibility, because it will not take into account the individual motivational needs of the individual being trained BOTH human and horse. Regimen will usually hold the partners at a distance vs. being of one mind. Being in the horses head turns convention on its head and makes it less relevant because being in the horses head at all times, is superior to convention. Intimate knowledge of the individual and constant deep observation and analysis in the marriage between the two allows one to accomplish so much more and usually, when ready, so much faster.

Your depth of commitment to each individual is also on display. Dealing with each as the need arises and in a manner consistent as to who they are and where they "are" at a given moment is the hallmark of a good trainer. This cannot be done unless you are "all in", not for greatness anyway. It also can't be done part time. You live it, you breath it.

Praise and encouragement in some ways are a means to an end. The end for me being, the horse being so excited to "do" whatever is next with you that they can nearly contain themselves. They know they must and they will, but "geez you move too slow Mom, Lets GO". This kind of engagement is priceless and makes the sky the limit, no matter the endeavor. You also demonstrate taking time where time is needed but to also go as fast as that little sponge gets it and then to build on top of the firm firm foundation already laid. Crawl, walk, run. And I do mean run litterally as many times you will find yourself needing to run to keep up with your pupil. Full engagement in teaching and training will, in general, teach YOU more than if you were just a pupil. Which brings it back to you in that, unless you too were a a fully engaged sponge, NONE of this would happen. Seeking, devouring, implementing.

As to disclaimers, outside of the obvious, I will leave that task to those who feel they are so called, and continue to speak how I speak.

I KNOW the joy and encouragement that these milestones bring. Your foundation grows stronger everyday BECAUSE of your engagement and I look forward to meeting Turbo someday.

You go girl,

Bb


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## jleonard (Dec 19, 2010)

Leia, I love how you write and are able to bring Kody and Turbo's personalities to life so it feels like we all know them. I can always see what you write in my head and it is like I am there watching you. It is so nice to hear how wonderfully both boys are doing, when it comes time to hitch Turbo the whole process is going to be such a non-issue thanks to all of this preparatory work you've done all along.

Oh, and do you really need to ask if we want to see pictures? That should be an obvious answer!


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## RhineStone (Dec 20, 2010)

In short, we call that training "introducing the cart" or "cart play". Many times, it involves treats initially, especially for a horse that is "wary" of the cart. It's amazing how OK the horse becomes with the cart when it is used for a "feed bin", by putting a treat on the seat that they have to approach to get (depending on the design of the cart). You definitely don't use a good show cart for this training! Yes, you have to be careful that the horse does not bust the shafts, especially a big horse and a wooden shafted cart, but we have them step over the shafts, too. And we put the horse in between the shafts both forward and back. The horse needs to understand that the cart is not something to be afraid of, so this training is extremely beneficial. With a big horse, you need two people for this work, one to handle the horse and the other to handle the cart.

I think the disclaimers are good. There are SO many people here that are VERY green to this type of training. They need to understand the inherent dangers of this work.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 20, 2010)

drivin*me*buggy said:


> Keep posting...I find reading what others are doing gives me ideas and keeps me motivated, even in the cold.
> .....but she managed to keep it together and we kept working, as I didn't want to let her think we stopped just because some craziness started in the world.
> 
> I then took Buck out and drove him for a half hour in the 'Bike. He was a good boy overall, though he did have one little bucking episode ... He had a properly adjusted kicking strap which kept us safe and then I proceeded to work him more, as goofy nonsense does not get one excused from work around here..


Good for you, Angie! Now that he's hit the bucking strap the lesson will be in place in his mind so he may not try it again if you're lucky. Sounds like you're on the ball with how you work your kids and I'm glad you shared with us. I too like reading about other people's training adventures! As Wilma said, it gets lonely when there's no one to share with and it does keep our motivation up.



Carriage said:


> Your foundation grows stronger everyday BECAUSE of your engagement and I look forward to meeting Turbo someday.


He looks forward to meeting you too, Bob! Kody's told him good things about all the scritchies you give and he gloats over his Hyperbike. Poor boy, I'm going to have one upset pony on my hands the first time Turbo gets to use it!



jleonard said:


> Leia, I love how you write and are able to bring Kody and Turbo's personalities to life so it feels like we all know them.


I wish you did all know them. For now, this is the best I can do.







RhineStone said:


> Yes, you have to be careful that the horse does not bust the shafts, especially a big horse and a wooden shafted cart, but *we have them step over the shafts, too. And we put the horse in between the shafts both forward and back.* The horse needs to understand that the cart is not something to be afraid of, so this training is extremely beneficial.


Whew! I was honestly waiting to be scolded for doing that by those who "know better" so I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one who does this stuff!



I could really see where ponying Turbo had been good because he still looks cross-eyed at the drag tire but the cart rattling along doesn't concern him. After all, he's been tied to it while his older brother pulls it at high speed and it didn't bother Kody, so why should it bother him?



He's just excited to take on that Big Boy Role up front!



RhineStone said:


> I think the disclaimers are good. There are SO many people here that are VERY green to this type of training. They need to understand the inherent dangers of this work.


I know there are, but I'll be honest with you- I make those disclaimers only so the rest of you don't feel like you have to. It's so annoying to have a post meant to share a positive driving experience sidetracked by constant references to Danger! and Danger! and have I mentioned Danger!?



I know driving is inherently risky. Things can go terribly wrong in an instant and you really do have to know what can go wrong, what to do if it does, and take all necessary precautions to prevent it. But the way it's been made to sound on this forum, it's like you should be terrified to take the reins without a license from NASA. I wish we could put the focus more on positive education rather than frightening people. We could accomplish the same end without going to the extremes of labeling even common pneumatic tires as "dangerous."

A rattlesnake is dangerous. A pneumatic tire is not suited for work that places a lot of lateral stress on it.





Tell people the risk factors and what we are concerned may happen if they do xyz but leave it at that. IMO what they do with that information is their responsiblity and we have done our job as educators. Folks become afraid to post questions or photos if they think we're going to jump on them and that means we lose a chance to help a fellow driver in a positive and joyful way.

Thank YOU, all of you, for commenting on my post! I looked at the pictures last night and chose a couple to upload. I'll add them here on my day off.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Dec 20, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Whew! I was honestly waiting to be scolded for doing that by those who "know better" so I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one who does this stuff!
> 
> 
> 
> I could really see where ponying Turbo had been good because he still looks cross-eyed at the drag tire but the cart rattling along doesn't concern him.


Our big (coming 3 yr. old) mare doesn't get overly concerned about the vehicle either since we have ponied (one of us held onto her rope from the back step while the other drove) her from it, too. By the time she is ready to be put to, she will probably care less about it. It is all cumulative.



hobbyhorse23 said:


> I know there are, but I'll be honest with you- I make those disclaimers only so the rest of you don't feel like you have to. It's so annoying to have a post meant to share a positive driving experience sidetracked by constant references to Danger! and Danger! and have I mentioned Danger!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I know sometimes I can be pretty straightforward and leave out all the "niceties" before I get to the "please don't do that". That is just who I am. (That's why I'm glad you are here to fill that in!



) And I understand what you are saying. But to be honest, there are new people that come on here all the time and obviously haven't read our prior posts of "don't do that". I'm going to "pick on" the lady that recently posted photos of her "one-day training session" because her horse was "so good". I was actually jumping out of my skin with my jaw dropped as I read, as was I'm sure a whole lot of other people who know better!



That could have been a COMPLETE WRECK and we were HIGHLY CONCERNED for her! Some minis are saints for putting up with what some people dish out to them. I am consistently flabbergasted everyday with what I have seen here, as is the rest of the driving world. The thing that concerns me the most is that there are A LOT of brand new owners, even new to horses, that think it is just so easy to "hitch up a horse and go".

When I start a new driving student, I preface with, "Driving is one of the MOST dangerous things you can do with a horse, because you are separated from it while it is pulling a 'weapon'. This is NOT something you 'screw around' with." Then we go out with our trained horses, show them how it is done, and have a good time. I haven't known an educated driver yet that would "screw around" with a driving horse the way that you really can with a riding horse. I remember turning around while bareback on a horse horse and riding backwards without getting off, during a lesson. What is the worst that could happen? You fall off. The horse may run off or it might stand still, but you put that same situation with a driving horse where you have become disconnected from the vehicle and the horse takes off, you have a tangled web of cart and harness at best. Look at that Arab video of the cumulative wrecks, and that was in a "controlled" environment with "trained" horses and drivers, and well-fitted (by most standards) equipment! That would have never happened in a saddle horse class. Every mini owner, before they ever think about driving a horse, should watch that video. Then maybe we wouldn't see so many untrained minis and drivers in uncontrolled environments with ill-fitting equipment. (And that wreck video could have happened with any breed, so I wouldn't blame it on the Arabs.) Even Norm Abram of "This Old House" fame prefaces his education on his "New Yankee Workshop" woodworking show with, "Be sure to read, understand, and follow all the safety rules that come with your power tools. Knowing how to use your power tools properly will greatly reduce the risk of personal injury." The problem is that minis don't come with directions and warning statements. And people using power tools are rarely doing it in public where there is a greater risk of injuring someone else.

Carriage drivers around here, and I'm sure other places, are EXTREMELY safety conscious. I know of one gentleman that was helping the local 4-H program with driving when the 4-H Leader told him, "We don't need all that safety stuff, we just want the kids to have fun." Needless to say, he was done helping that program because if it is not safe, it is not fun. Part of me is understanding what he was going through, because I see it here sometimes, too.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled blog. Sorry to "hijack" your thread, but I was just responding to what you wrote.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 20, 2010)

Well-stated, Myrna.



I can't argue with any of that!

I winced over the one-day hitching, but sighed and admitted that I probably could have hitched Turbo in one day as a yearling and had it go fine. Once. The second day, when he got overwhelmed, it would all have gone to h-e-double-hockey-sticks in a hurry! So many of these little guys are practically bomb-proof that it's easy to do that sort of thing without immediate consequences and then get into a lot of trouble down the road.

The instructors around here usually start a lesson with "So how much experience do you have? What are your goals? Okay, let's get started. Here are the basic safety rules, and this is why we do each of them. Now, let's harness the horse...."



RhineStone said:


> Needless to say, he was done helping that program because if it is not safe, it is not fun.


I find that sort of sad, honestly. IMO the right answer at that point would be to calmly state that you can have lots of fun driving but not if someone gets hurt, and go right on teaching. It sounds like that club really needed him.



RhineStone said:


> OK, back to your regularly scheduled blog. Sorry to "hijack" your thread, but I was just responding to what you wrote.


No worries, I hijacked it myself.





Leia

P.S.- I see you mastered the multiple quotes thing! Good job!



Hehe.


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 20, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> (No, I don't recommend doing this with your driving horse. It's not good for the cart, potential for injury, blah blah blah. I knew the risks and was being careful!)
> 
> Kody did slip a foot down between the shaft brace and the shaft at one point and pulled back, carefully dragging me a foot or two before he got free.


I for one was quite glad to see your "disclaimer" and don't see the harm in letting others know that what you were doing was potentially hazardous. This little exercise could easily turn into an exercise to teach them to fear and hate a cart if you are not VERY careful with it while it also has the potential to help a horse become friends with the cart and not fear it. You knew the risks and were being careful and Kody still got caught up. If he wasn't already trained and relatively confidant with a cart and you right there he could have been injured along with yourself. So you let people know that if they are going to try this themselves they need to realize the potential outcome - where is the harm in that? We could have perhaps done without the "blah blah blah" making your "disclaimer" rather trite but at least you had the common sense to give it.

I don't think myself, or Myrna or anyone else who comes on here to advise people we feel are putting themselves and/or their horses into a potentially dangerous position, are trying to be killjoys - we all love and enjoy the sport of driving horses and that comes out in our posts as well as being sensible. I think that anyone working with children and the sport of driving horses needs to keep safety front and center and perhaps if you were a parent of one of those 4H kids you would be glad to know that their 4H leader valued their lives.

I have used similar methods to retrain horses that have been frightened by a cart but I use one of my old beater carts that I am not worried about wrecking and I don't encourage them to put their feet up on it as they wouldn't be doing that while driving and the potential for injury is too great.

Carriage driving is a lot of fun and part of the fun, like any sport, is the slightly dangerous/daring aspect of competition but to put yourself or your horse in a dangerous position without taking any precautions, without using available safety equipment, or for no good reason is just foolish and most unfair to your horse who doesn't really get a say in it.


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## jleonard (Dec 20, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> I think that anyone working with children and the sport of driving horses needs to keep safety front and center and perhaps if you were a parent of one of those 4H kids you would be glad to know that their 4H leader valued their lives.


Myrna said the 4-H leader was the one who said not to bother with all of the safety precautions, it was the man helping who was trying to keep them safe. Leia was not saying that the safety aspect was not important


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 20, 2010)

Hi MiLo!







MiLo Minis said:


> I think that anyone working with children and the sport of driving horses needs to keep safety front and center *and perhaps if you were a parent of one of those 4H kids you would be glad to know that their 4H leader valued their lives.*


I agree, and what bugged me was that she didn't.



What I said was that the leader _should_ have been concerned with safety, I'm annoyed she wasn't, and if I was the teacher trying to help them I think I would have argued the case instead of leaving because she was brushing it off. Removing yourself from the situation doesn't make it better or help those kids, which is what I found sad. That's all!



MiLo Minis said:


> This little exercise could easily turn into an exercise to teach them to fear and hate a cart if you are not VERY careful with it while it also has the potential to help a horse become friends with the cart and not fear it. You knew the risks and were being careful and Kody still got caught up. ...
> 
> I have used similar methods to retrain horses that have been frightened by a cart but I use one of my old beater carts that I am not worried about wrecking and I don't encourage them to put their feet up on it as they wouldn't be doing that while driving and the potential for injury is too great.


I agree with you and did not ask them to put their feet up on it, nor do I really want them to do so in the future for the reasons you mention.



My judgement at the time was that I would likely cause more injury than good if I stopped Turbo at that moment as he would probably have spooked and pulled back, possibly hooking the cart and scaring himself.

I let him do it for a moment, took a picture since the camera was already in my lap and asked him calmly to remove his foot. The next time he tried I told him no and asked him to step back and he lost interest in trying it. I was far more worried about Kody as Mr. Persistent insisted on putting his foot up near the shaft brace (an unacceptable risk even by my standards) and I was actually reaching out to forcibly remove it when he saw me coming, moved his foot to avoid the attempt and it slipped sideways and the heel bulb got caught lightly on the shaft inside the brace. Later he kept offering to step up in the cart basket and I nixed that idea rather emphatically as being way outside the bounds of safety or necessity.

Every horse has their one natural behavior they default to in order to get attention- Kody's has always been stepping up on stuff!



He's such a dork. (And yes, his owner is nearly as dumb sometimes.)

I want you to know I don't post details about stupid stuff like that because I'm proud of it or think it's okay. I post it because I feel that new drivers can learn by what happens when things go wrong and it's better that they learn by reading about a mild incident in my training then by something much worse happening to them. Seen in that light I suppose it was in fact trite to say "Blah blah blah" in my first disclaimer (although that was about stepping over the shafts like cavaletti) but at the time I just wanted to get past that part and on to the story I was trying to tell about what made me so happy.





Always enjoy chatting with you guys.





Leia


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## RhineStone (Dec 20, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> I find that sort of sad, honestly. IMO the right answer at that point would be to calmly state that you can have lots of fun driving but not if someone gets hurt, and go right on teaching. It sounds like that club really needed him.


It was actually a county 4-H program and I doubt that the County Key Leader was at all interested in driving, hence her lack of understanding for safety precautions. That attitude is pretty prevalent here, "Let's get the driving over with so we can get to the 'real' classes."



Without Leader support, you feel like you are wasting your time. I've had the same thing in my county. You offer and offer and offer, but unless you have parent and leader support, driving won't get off the ground.



hobbyhorse23 said:


> P.S.- I see you mastered the multiple quotes thing! Good job!
> 
> 
> 
> Hehe.


I figured out that I could use the Edit menu for Cut, Copy, and Paste!



I LOVE my right click button, and it used to work here before the upgrade, but now the only command of that sort I have on my right button is Paste. I somewhat forgot about the pull down menus in the browser, because I hardly ever use them for those commands in any other program. That is why I couldn't figure out how you did it!





Myrna


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 21, 2010)

Yup I definitely mis-read what Myrna wrote and therefore Leia's comment didn't make sense either - sorry Leia! In that case I agree with you - that club NEEDED him!

I still say it doesn't take a "license from NASA" but it sure doesn't hurt to have help from someone who knows what they are doing so that you can learn from someone else's experience rather than putting your horse and youself in danger experimenting on your own. Without meaning any harm to the person posting because they are certainly not alone - there are many people that don't realize the danger they could be in, check out the post on the main forum where the poster is not even sure he/she has the horse hitched correctly but has children on the cart having fun! That could have turned out to be totally NOT fun in a hurry. They were indeed fortunate that little mare was sensible and tolerated their fun but unless they learn the correct way to harness it may not turn out that way next time.


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## RhineStone (Dec 21, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> It sure doesn't hurt to have help from someone who knows what they are doing so that you can learn from someone else's experience rather than putting your horse and youself in danger experimenting on your own. Without meaning any harm to the person posting because they are certainly not alone - there are many people that don't realize the danger they could be in, check out the post on the main forum where the poster is not even sure he/she has the horse hitched correctly but has children on the cart having fun! That could have turned out to be totally NOT fun in a hurry. They were indeed fortunate that little mare was sensible and tolerated their fun but unless they learn the correct way to harness it may not turn out that way next time.


EXACTLY!



Minis are SO tolerant of stuff! It took all I could muster



not to point out everything that was problematic with that drive.








Myrna

p.s. Leia, we need some photos so we get back to your topic!


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 21, 2010)

Yes please Leia! Lets see photos of your youngster "pulling" his cart!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 22, 2010)

Pix of him in the shafts, hmm? That could be interesting to obtain!



Mom found out Monday she's been walking around on a broken foot since Saturday so she's now in a walking boot and avoiding grass, puddles, horses, and anything else hazardous to her toes.



I can try to take one walking beside him but honestly I want my attention 100% on the horse when he's loose between the shafts like that. Maybe I can coax Dad into playing photographer?





Leia


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 22, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Well-stated, Myrna.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do not know how to edit quotes, but I want to agree with the comment about everything going fine the first time hitching, then the horse possibly becoming overwhelmed the second time and losing it. I was worried about this very thing with Dusty and the sleigh bells, so I wanted to be sure someone was home when I tried it. He seemed to handle them all right, but that isn't to say the next time out he won't be overwhelmed by them and lose his cool. (I will be sure someone is around the next time I take him out also. I should be able to tell then if he is really ready for them.) It is sometimes hard to know when a horse is mentally mature enough for something, even though his body is.


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 22, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Pix of him in the shafts, hmm? That could be interesting to obtain!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not IN the shafts! You promised us photos of them "pulling" at the cart with their feet and we are patiently



waiting!


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