# Michigan help?



## fourhorses (Oct 8, 2003)

I have a family member in Clayton, MI. Ringo is a wonderful black mini that spent most of his years in a petting zoo and then wintered @ family members home. They bought him outright 2 years ago.

In late April I made a trip from OH to MI. I was sickened by what I saw. Ringo was unable to stand for more than a minute or 2 because his hooves were ~10-12" long and stunk to high heavens from thrush. You see, they only clean his stall every 2 weeks or so so his bedding is his own waste. They were feeding him 2 large grain scoops of sweet feed/day and since the family member's husband thought hay was too expensive they feed him a few alfalfa cubes a day also.

I begged her to let me pay for vet visit with the intention of getting a farrier out to do any corrective work. She refused. I took 30-35 bales of mixed hay up in mid-May and also called a neighbor who owns horses to get a farrier referral. He does his own trimming and tried to trim the mini but he's broken or dislocated his shoulder/arm a couple months ago AND he is not a professional farrier.

I filed a report with the county humane society and they sent the sheriff out that day. They saw a fat little horse and didn't feel it was neglect. Ringo has not had any vaccinations nor has he been wormed in at least 2 years. Please, I need help. Is there anything I can do to make sure this mini receives proper care?? Thanks so much, Kristie


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## smokengunsranch (Oct 9, 2003)

Kristie I don't want to hurt anyones feelings here but the police are right if they see food and water there is nothing they can do. I know it is hard to see an animal suffer but (I know you ment well) but taking them hay was the worst thing you could of done. At this time see if the humane society can educate them about hoof care etc. but I really don't think there is anything they can do either if there is food and water provided.

I'm Sorry!


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## SunQuest (Oct 9, 2003)

Smokengunsranch is correct.

In the majority of cases, either the horses have to be starving, or dead in order to get anything done. It is really really sad, and it is extremely difficult to let that happen.

And if the horse has any food or water on the property, even if they can't actually get to it, then often nothing can be done.

It just breaks your heart.

But, contacting the humane society and any local equine rescues in MI, they may help to put pressure on the owners.

Here is a quote taken from www.equinerescue.com:



> 1. Approach the owner.If the horse's owner is at all approachable, speak with them first. Rule out any possibility that the animal is actually at a facility where it is on the road to recovery from someone else's misconduct. It can also be possible that the owner isn't aware of the proper care a horse needs. This can especially be true with new owners of hard-to-keep animals or those in special circumstances, such as pregnant mares. Diana Linkous of the Equine Rescue Network, inc. urges, "If the owner is known, or appears to be hostile, skip this step."
> 
> 2. Collect evidence.
> 
> ...


Also on this site, you can search for rescues that are located in MI. Get them involved in it as they KNOW the laws for that state.

Please keep us posted!


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## fourhorses (Oct 9, 2003)

Thanks so much for your responses.

SunQuest: I have done #1 & 3. Seems mini was fat so feet & living conditions were not of importance



.

I have eyewitnesses but no documentation such as pictures because the family member is my sister and I tried all avenues before turning to the Humane Society.

Since then they have aquired a goat, another hooved animal that will require care and vaccinations. I don't understand this as they are zoned residential.

I love my sister very much and have always been very close to her. I have spent hours & hours talking with her, her husband & my 2 nieces and showing them basic horse care. I knew in May when we brought up the hay that it was a mistake but, at that moment, still hoping that some of her animal keeping would change for the better, I was thinking about Ringo and his suffering. I also tried but couldn't get a vet out without the owner's permission and the neighbor informed me that there was no farrier that would come out for just one horse - especially a mini.

Since May a couple other pets have died and since one of those that suffered was one that I had given them to love the guilt took and I finally had to do something. Seems like I am too late.


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## SunQuest (Oct 9, 2003)

(((HUGS))) Fourhorses,

I know you feel a great deal of responsibility for this because one of them was yours at one time. But don't blame yourself. You didn't do it, and if you had known that this is the way the animal would be treated, then you wouldn't have given the animal to your sister.

I don't know the relationship between your sister and you, but I would see if she would give the animal back to you. And even though you love your sister, you still can tell her what she is doing is wrong!

Please go to the site I listed www.equinerescue.com/staterescues.html and contact the rescues that are listed for MI. If anyone can help, they could.

And just because they are zoned residential doesn't mean that she can't have the animals. You will need to check out the specific covenants and regulations relating to the area she lives in. This is probably public record info.

Then if the zoning or covenants prohibit livestock or horses, you may be able to report then to the county authorities that covers zoning and covenants.

Please keep trying, and keep us posted. While we can't do forcible rescue, we can help with ideas and people that may be able to help in this area. (hugs)


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## fourhorses (Oct 9, 2003)

SunQuest said:


> I don't know the relationship between your sister and you, but I would see if she would give the animal back to you. And even though you love your sister, you still can tell her what she is doing is wrong!


That animal died. Suffered for hours before she finally passed on.

About 5 years ago I was going to retire one of my horses to her home (2 acres). He was quite the schoolmaster & I thought having 2 little girls to love him would be the best retirement present ever. I spent 2 days collecting cards for farriers, vets & references from a local tack shop and came home to make some calls, ask questions, references, etc. During that time, discussing arrangements, care, etc. I realized there was no way I could take my horse up there and I told her why. This decision miffed my sister and she didn't speak to me for a week or so, we eventally talked about it and that was it. (Calgary is still with me today, just turned 23 and will be with my husband & I for the rest of his life.)

When my sister wintered Ringo for 3 winters before she bought him I told her what a great situation that was......she kept him for the winter and he went back to the petting zoo in the spring. With just wintering him I told her her expenses would really be at a minimum with a little slower hoof growth, no worry about grass founder (seems he has a long history of that), a tube of wormer would last her almost a year and advised her to check with a vet as I didn't know if mini's were vaccinated the same as their larger cousins but maybe a flu/rhino shot might be a good booster in the winter - this being what I do.

My sister has listened to the ups & downs of me being owned by my horses for over 9 years. My love of animals and especially horses has been always been part of what defines me. This situation forced me to choose. When I filed the report with the humane society I knew what it meant in my relationship with her and other members of my family. Up until I filed the report we usually talked several times a week and I always asked about Ringo and Zena (housebunny that died a slow death and reminded me that I had to do something) and tried to educate her in little ways. They feel that since Ringo isn't near other horses on a regular basis that he doesn't need vaccinated and if he can walk or even try to run on his feet then there is no need to call a vet, he either pulls thru or he doesn't.

I hope to have some news in the next couple business days and see where I go from there. Thank you for letting me vent. Trying to get sheriff to understand thrush & founder has been quite depressing.


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## Frankie (Oct 9, 2003)

I can't believe common sense doesn't tell them something is very wrong.

Would they consider selling the horse? Maybe you could tell her you heard of someone who is interested in that type of mini. Rather you explained it by his color or sex or whatever, just make something up. For example, I know someone who is looking for a solid black stallion. But use what ever it is he is.

I would be interested in helping if I can.


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## virginia (Oct 9, 2003)

Dear Fourhorses

My prayers and best wishes are with you and poor Ringo. Do you think your sister might sell him to you. Possibly we could help there. Or just maybe you could find and pay a Farrier to help him out. Some Farriers do care and are willing to help. They just have to know about it.

Good luck and Please keep us posted.

Ginny


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## fourhorses (Oct 10, 2003)

I've tried to buy him. I have my own farm and have always been willing to take him but they won't sell. It's very twisted as they have no reason to keep him. I begged her to let me take him home in May. They were going to give pony rides on him with his fairy slippers.

They have now bought a GOAT to keep him company. Another hooved animal at her mercy. They bought the goat as an "hah, in your face" to me since the sheriff didn't remove the mini. They know nothing about horses let alone goats. It's going to be a long day.

That you are taking the time to read my posts and help means alot. Thanks so much, Kristie


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## Frankie (Oct 10, 2003)

I have an idea.

What if I got in touch with her, told her I had a family member who lives in Michigan, had saw the horse at a petting zoo, told me about it and now I am interested in buying it? What do you think? It could be a more detailed story if need be. Does she have email? Might be worth a shot.


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## fourhorses (Oct 10, 2003)

Frankie,

Hugs to you for your offer. It is much appreciated and I may take you up on that.

Right now I am working on the zoning issue. She is zoned residential and has farm animals. Hopefully that will be the loophole. If not, then I am going to call a rescue in that area.....Horses Haven. I will keep you updated.


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## SunQuest (Oct 10, 2003)

Frankie,

Thank you for that offer. It may be an option.

And FourHorses, don't feel bad about calling a rescue into this situation. If the horse's feet and living conditions are that bad, then they should know. I only wish that we had state coordinators and other volunteers in that area so that we could try to help out more....

Please keep us posted, and if you have pictures of the horse's condition for CMHR to see, that would help tremendously...

You can contact me at:

[email protected] or pm me if you require further assistance.


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## fourhorses (Oct 10, 2003)

I am getting Zero response from the county & township regarding anything, from report to zoning, etc.





I am going to call Horses Haven equine rescue. I'll will keep this post updated.


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## Frankie (Oct 11, 2003)

I am wondering how much a resue can do. In our county they can really do nothing until there is interference from the authorities. Then they get in touch with the rescue. They have no legal grounds, and the law says there is no problem.... Is it to help educate those with the horse?

Maybe my email and letting them know I am interested, maybe would work. Give me a low down on the horse history, and maybe a town near them I can use, where my "Uncle" would live, and we could give it a try.

Oh, I forgot to mention I was opening my own petting zoo





We will never know until we try. It cost no one anything for me to email, just a little time, and that's no big deal. The worst she can do is tell me no. Then we go to the next plan, what ever that may be.

It's just an offer.


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## fourhorses (Oct 11, 2003)

Frankie (Carolyn),

I will be calling you before the end of the weekend. I need to love on my own horses today AFTER I make another call to the humane society.





My sister does not have an e-mail. However, the couple that lived in their home before them lived there for over 30 years so maybe we can use that in our favor as in driving by and saying hi and finding out that they moved??? Sneaky I know but I will not be welcome there to just drive up, whip out a camera & leave.

You are right about rescue - they cannot seize the animal.

Educating my sister seems a mute point as she has had weekly/monthly education for nine years - the time we've owned our farm.

Since I really screwed up by not taking pictures the closest you can see what Ringo looks like is here... www.harpsonline.org/rescues/shaggy.phtml

Ringo is not quite that FAT but his hooves were longer.





I'll keep in touch. Thank you for your support, Kristie


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## Frankie (Oct 11, 2003)

What about writing a letter? If his feet are that bad, something needs to be done soon! You could send her address by PM so not all see. Not sure what else to do at this point. Does she have email at work?


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## fourhorses (Oct 11, 2003)

PM sent. A long one. Feel free to share with the board as I wanted you to read first. Thanks so much, Kristie


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## fourhorses (Oct 20, 2003)

UPDATE:

It has been a very long & emotional day but I did want to give an update on Ringo. Since I couldn't get anywhere with the County I spent hours a day trying other avenues. I have succeeded in getting the State of Michigan Dept. of Agriculture involved. Thanks to the phrase "manure management" "no vaccinations" "no, he never had a coggins pulled when he was bought" "founder", etc. has gotten an immediate response from the Michigan Department of Agriculture. The report will be available to me a week from Friday. The gal was very helpful, took report right then, had me call the state Animal Control officer and I had no sooner hung up with them that MDA called for the address and told me that a State Vet and MDA Compliance Officer would be down to the address within a day or 2. She also told me the consequences. Ringo's humans are in big trouble. I am glad that they will have to take responsibility but my dad paid me a visit this afternoon to let me know that my sister will never forgive me and that I will most likely never see my nieces for years to come.






I am so sad about this but Ringo will be safe. Instead of hating me for the rest of their lives I hope that they will all understand that animals are not a novelty, this was not about family, it was about an animal clearly suffering.


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## SunQuest (Oct 21, 2003)

Hugs fourhorses....

This is definately not a good deal for you. I am so sorry that you will loose seeing your family over this. It really makes me sad that you were stuck in this spot to have to choose animals over family.

But I want you to know that you are saving those that can not help themselves. As hard as this is on you, you are doing the right thing. I can only hope that the others in your family will understand and all do what is right and support your decision.

When you get this all worked out, please consider joining CMHR. We can you people that are as resourceful as you are to help educate others on what they can do to stop abuse in their neighborhoods.


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## virginia (Oct 21, 2003)

You did the right thing. You can sleep at night with a clear conscience. I know it was hard for you to do,



I too would love to see you become a member of CMHR. Plese consider it.

Plesae keep us updated. And best of luck with you and your sister.

Ginny


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## fourhorses (Oct 21, 2003)

I have never been so at peace. I have never done anything so right. I have cried a bit this morning but that is only after I received the first of many hate e-mails from my family. I can't put into words how mad they are at me. BUT, thru it all no one has mentioned Ringo or any other animal that has suffered only that I have destroyed the "family". This is what makes me cry. That saving face is more important than a life makes me that more sure of what I will continue to do for the rest of my life - rescue work and making sure that laws are changed. Happens that I worked for a political consultant for years before I started my equine laundry and still see him often. I can get things done - didn't have confidence in myself before but I know what I can accomplish and I'm going to educate, educate, educate. There will still be too many horses that will need rescued from cruely &/or neglect cases but with limitless sources of education I want to make sure that will never, ever be used as an excuse.

That all of this could have been prevented if pride and ego had been set aside and the willingness to accept help from those who've been there as a first-time horse owner. You make so many mistakes- usually really stupid ones




- but horses, as every other animal, are so willing to forgive you and hang on 'til ya get it right. As long as the basic needs are taken care of they don't mind that you mess up in little ways - they are here to teach and humble us. As I write this I sob again over what is lost and the absolute joy & education that Ringo could provide. But for Ringo it is a blessed day - he will get to start a new life where his needs are met and he is loved. I so hope they let me adopt him and if it's meant to be it will. With supportive care he'll be fine in no time at all and I would love for the people who did this to him to be able to see him when he has been taken care of.

((((HUGS)))) to all of you for your support. Kristie (who will become a member in the next day or so) when I quit crying.


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## fourhorses (Oct 30, 2003)

Another UPDATE.

The authorities in MI are zipping their lips until they receive formal requests from me under the Freedom of Information Act. So much for their original enthusiasum





I just want to know the condition of Ringo - any ideas on how to find out how the little horse is doing??


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## Wee Mite Miniatures (Nov 3, 2003)

Kristie,

No matter what your family says you did the right thing. If they wanted to do the right thing they would have stepped in before things got bad. I am so sorry they are sending you hate mail. I do feel so sorry for them that they can not tell right from wrong. If they did they would have helped you to get your sister to do the right things before things got out of hand.

Do you know if the state took the horse or just gave your sister a demand to correct the problems? I hate to say it but most of the time that is all that is done. If so I am surprised you have not got more hate mail telling you that the state was out and things are just fine. Most times when a person knows someone is turning them in they correct things real fast if they can.


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## wykd (Nov 3, 2003)

It might not be much....Kristie......but you can be part of my family.

Vickie


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## fourhorses (Nov 3, 2003)

Vickie,

That's one of the nicest things someone has ever said!! Of course I'll take you up on it! Thanks for all the kind words & thoughts.


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## wykd (Nov 3, 2003)

okay done...you are officially my new daughter??????? I am 46 so should be old enough for your Mom. Now if you need me to email anyone in your old family, just let me know...hehehe


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## fourhorses (Nov 3, 2003)

Make that sister Vickie.....I'm 37


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## wykd (Nov 3, 2003)

Ok...BABY sister.
























and I am serious...you can be part of my family, I live in Ohio and have a couple kids that drop in to visit me on the weekends!!!!!


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