# MDM's Cool Copper



## MDMminis (Jul 20, 2006)

Copper's papers are pending




. But he will be registered as MDM's Cool Copper. I currently do not have pics they will get here shortly hehe sorry guys. But i'd like to fill you in on the fuzzy little man. Copper is a 2mon silver pinto colt, he is at the breeders until he is weaned. He's out of registered stock in which his grandfather and great grandfather on his sire's side contain the Hall Of Fame tittle his sire and his sire's pedigree was raised on Taylor Pony Farm.

Copper is considered a shetland, he has good conformation and good personailty he likes to pick fights with a filly his corraled with. He's outgoing and likes to get in trouble by his sweet mother which is solid and his sire is a tested %100 color producer and registered pinto and shetland. He is to belived to possibly carry this as well soon to find out when he's tested. He's amazing and will become my future breeding stud.

For the moment i have no other broodmares or studs. I'll be looking soon when i clear room and such i do have other bigger horses including a 2yr.old gaited tennessee walker that was currently gelded and being broke. I also have his full brother which is 1 there both gelded and 50/50 spotted bay and white. My 2yr.old is Wrangler and he's 16HH his brother Cowboy is almost 14HH at only one. My last big horse is Lucky my 17yr.old trail and 4-h horse he shows western pleasure, halter, and trail he's 14.2. Thats about it feel free to ask questions.



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## disneyhorse (Jul 21, 2006)

Congratulations! You will have a lot of fun with your pony. Are you planning on trying your hand at showing him?

Andrea


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## MDMminis (Jul 21, 2006)

Yea i'm hoping to next year take him in open shows and such to start out and see how he does. I'll know more about his future when i get him and started to get to know him more.


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## MDMminis (Jul 23, 2006)

PICCYS :aktion033: :aktion033:

Hehe here's my lil man proving his all stud muffin lol.






Taking a drink from mommy






Then we walk off lol..



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Here's his mother she's grade






Here's his father his registered Shetland and a very nice lined stud. Very sweet boy. Look at that color



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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Jul 25, 2006)

Congrats he is very cute. Are you regsitering him ASPR? or WCMHR? or with the pinto Assoc?


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## Leeana (Jul 25, 2006)

Hi

If his mother is a grade then this colt cannot be a shetland nor registered ASPC as a shetland. He also cannot be registered untill he is 3yrs old and it would have to be AMHR (if he makes the height, both parents look iffy on the height) or WCMHR but there is no way he can be registered at the moment. to be ASPC both parents must be registered, no hardshipping in ASPC ..its not open to outside horses. He should make a wonderful show gelding when he is older



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## MDMminis (Jul 25, 2006)

Yes he can thanks for your concern though GC. I have read the rules of both clubs 4 times and have sen't an e-mail to Shetland they said he can be registered since his father is registered with them and the owner of the stud sen't in the breeding.

Also with pinto they said neither parents has to be registered for ponies and they accept stallions if there under so many inches and in which he will be. Also i won't be gelding him.


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## Leeana (Jul 25, 2006)

Both parents must be registered for ASPC so there is no way this boy will be ASPC. He can be AMHR in a few years if he makes the height and Pinto is open. But i can assure you if the owner sent in papers to ASPC i would be a bit worried because he/she is taking you on quite some ride ....


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## MDMminis (Jul 25, 2006)

Yes he can be.




: I've already wen't over all of this before i put my time into filling out papers. He's not a miniature he is a pure-bred shetland pony so he will be registered as Shetland and with the Pinto club.


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## Leeana (Jul 25, 2006)

Since when did pure bred include being out of a grade mare?

I'm not trying to start anything with you, i'm just trying to explain to you that this colt cannot be registered ASPC if he is out of a grade mare.

Maybe the other shetland people on here can clear this up. Lewella ...Disney ..Kay?????


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## kaykay (Jul 25, 2006)

im sorry but if the mother has no papers he cannot be registered ASPC. he could be National show pony. National show pony only requires one parent be registered shetland. (i think thats right but the page is down on the aspc site so dont quote me lol) Maybe thats where your confused?? National Show pony is a different branch of ASPC. But they cannot show until they are 3 yrs old. want to clarify he cannot show ASPC sanctioned show until hes 3. He could show opens

Also leanna he could not be AMHR. Amhr is closed now and you can ONLY hardship amha horses in.





Cute boy


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## MDMminis (Jul 25, 2006)

She is a pure-bred since her mother and father both are shetlands and coutining back. As well as the father has Shetland all the way back, making the foal full blooded shetland. I've read the rules and sen't an e-mail provided by them on there web page. He can be registered in which i sen't in the papers already and have about 1-2wks to go.

He won't be going to anything nation wide or anything just local open shows and such. No quoting lol the sites not down?

http://www.shetlandminiature.com/


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Jul 25, 2006)

MDMminis said:


> Yes he can thanks for your concern though GC. I have read the rules of both clubs 4 times and have sen't an e-mail to Shetland they said he can be registered since his father is registered with them and the owner of the stud sen't in the breeding.
> 
> Also with pinto they said neither parents has to be registered for ponies and they accept stallions if there under so many inches and in which he will be. Also i won't be gelding him.


Actually just so you know.. he CAN NOT be reg ASPC since his dam is not Reg ASPC(Unless I read wrong you said she was a grade pony) so the stallion cert wont matter if she isnt reg and he is. HOWEVER he can be Reg NSPR which is (I think I get this and ASPR confused) National Show pony registry and all it takes is ONE parent to be ASPC or AMHR and then of course that parent and the foal DNA'd and you can register with that however again if the dam of this foal is not ASPC reg there is NO WAY the foal can be even if the sire is ASPC reg.

Even if she is "puurebred" with no papers on the mare there is NO WAY this foal can be registered ASPC but there are classes for NSPR horses


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## kaykay (Jul 25, 2006)

no the SITE is not down. but the REGISTRATION requirments for a national show pony is down. Or at least it is when I try to open it. The link says no such page.

The mother may be "pure bred" but *you * said she has no papers. Hopefully Lewella will peek in.

Its odd though that you are sending in the papers. Normally the breeder does that but not always. I myself will not sell a foal until i have registered them MYSELF.


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## MDMminis (Jul 25, 2006)

I might of sen't in the National Pony one i have no clue when it comes to reminding stuff i can't keep it down :lol:. But, no i sen't them in that and sometimes people give them stupid names (no offence to any one) lol.


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## Leeana (Jul 25, 2006)

Thanks for clearing that up, i felt sure that was the rule for ASPC.

There is no such thing as a grade shetland. To put it simple, either it is a ASPC full blooded shetland (meaning both bottom and top pedigree) or it is not a shetland. The mare pictured is not a shetland and like Lisa and Kay said there is no way this colt can be ASPC registered and i find it hard to believe that a guy with a HOF stallion (as you have said ..) wouldnt know this about the registry and advertise the colt as ASPC elig.

Is that a new rule with AMHR? Can you still hardship ASPC horses into AMHR?


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## MDMminis (Jul 25, 2006)

I do have proof of the stallions pedigree if this is where your heading GC. I might of sen't in National i can't remember it was about a week or so ago. The mare is a shetland pony no matter what the picture tells you. Also the guy just registers them Pinto and i didn't want him just Pinto. So i might of sen't in the other papers i sen't in what the lady told me.


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## Leeana (Jul 25, 2006)

Okay now im really confused ...your website says the mare is a Grade Miniature Mare and you just now said she is a purebred shetland all the way back. The mare is not elig for Pinto either as you just said they sent in hardship papers for her. She doesnt have 4 square inches of white anywhere from the look of it. Obviously the sire can be pinto registered but the mare has no white at all on her, not even 4 square inches (which is what is needed).

I would really be questioning this breeder if i were you because something sounds fishy.


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## kaykay (Jul 25, 2006)

leanna im sorry YES you can hardship an ASPC horse AMHR. i just meant that this colt could not be hardshipped AMHR because hes *not ASPC. *

this whole thing is odd to me


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## MDMminis (Jul 25, 2006)

Ok. I don't own mom or dad, 2 you must not be reading the rules GC if your looking at the pinto registry. Because they do accept solids but i have no idea what he's doing with the mare and its not my concern. Also i'm not registering him AMHR AMHA or anything else just Shetland and Pinto.


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## Leeana (Jul 25, 2006)

Thanks kay, i was worried there for a second lol!


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## MDMminis (Jul 25, 2006)

I have no idea what you people are talking about lol. Can be get back on the main topic here, this isn't about registry i was simply posting pics of my colt. Moving on from where ever you were flipping the page to. Thank You.


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## kaykay (Jul 25, 2006)

MDM lets keep it friendly okay?


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## MDMminis (Jul 25, 2006)

This topic was about my colt not registry. Please stick to that. Thank You


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Jul 25, 2006)

MDMminis said:


> Ok. I don't own mom or dad, 2 you must not be reading the rules GC if your looking at the pinto registry. Because they do accept solids but i have no idea what he's doing with the mare and its not my concern. Also i'm not registering him AMHR AMHA or anything else just Shetland and Pinto.


I think while honestly it is your horse and no ones concern everyone is just wanting to let you know that there is NO WAY you can register this horse ASPC(shetland) you can register it pinto of course and NSPR but no way no how can you register this foal shetland anything.

Again it is a cute foal and I am happy for you on your purchase. I think everyone was just trying to make sure you totally understood so that you werent disappointed

It is important for everyone who reads this thread to understand the rules so they dont get confused on what can and cant be registered. When posting on a fourm things like this come up and threads take on new information that needs/will be given that is just the way it works


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## MDMminis (Jul 26, 2006)

Thanks i think already painted the picture about 6 post ago lol. Hope everybody enjoyed the pictures.


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## JennyB (Jul 28, 2006)

[SIZE=12pt]MDM, Copper is really a pretty colt. I love his markings and it will be interesting if he turns a dark silver dapple pinto like his Mama is. Love that color! I don't believe though that he could be homozygous for pinto if that is what you were referring to? Both parents must be pinto for a homozygous foal to be born. Although you never know what Mother Nature will pull...LOL He looks SUPER :aktion033: [/SIZE]



> There is no such thing as a grade shetland. To put it simple, either it is a ASPC full blooded shetland (meaning both bottom and top pedigree) or it is not a shetland. The mare pictured is not a shetland.


[SIZE=12pt]CG this statement you said above is NOT true! There are MANY grade Shetland ponies-most of the Miniature horses were just that. Even though so far we don't know if this mare has ASPC papers or not, you can't say she is not a 100% American Shetland pony!



: I am sorry this is my opinion..[/SIZE]

Good Luck with Copper, MDM and please feel free to pm me about this mare. I would be very interested in her linage



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My best,

Jenny


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## MDMminis (Jul 28, 2006)

Thanks Jenny. I don't think she's registered so i don't know her linage but she has some kind of Silver gene because he said her last foal turned out around the silver color as well.


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## Leeana (Jul 29, 2006)

> CG this statement you said above is NOT true! There are MANY grade Shetland ponies-most of the Miniature horses were just that. Even though so far we don't know if this mare has ASPC papers or not, you can't say she is not a 100% American Shetland pony! I am sorry this is my opinion..


The shetland is a bloodline. This is where people get mixed up. People believe that any pony that is small is a shetland pony, that is not true and i think that is where you are coming from. People can call there pony a shetland bc they dont understand what a shetland is or the background of it but that horse is not a shetland. Every horse going back to 'chestnut' and 'prince of wales' and all of the first shetlands registered must have every horse in his/her pedigree carry the bloodlines going back to the very first horses that came off that island or carry the bloodlines off that island.

I'm sure many years ago when the Shetland breed was discovered even before the ASPC registry i'm sure there were grade shetlands that came off that island but after that other pony blood got mixed in and other breeds so it would be very hard if not impossible to find a 100% shetland pony that is not registered today. That is not my opinion, that is fact.

I really do look forward to seeing what color copper ends up as. He'd be really handsome if he gets his dams color and dapples but its hard to tell at this age and im no color person.


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## MDMminis (Jul 29, 2006)

She is a shetland pony, i don't know if she's 100% i don't care how big or small she is she is a shetland pony. I know that and just because she isn't registered doesn't mean she isn't a shetland pony. Not every single shetland pony in todays world is registered APCR or registered at all. Does this change the breed or histroy "NO". It creates more bloodlines and color gene's into the pony world.

I agree 100% with Jenny she is a shetland no matter if she has papers or not and thats a "Fact"!


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## Leeana (Jul 29, 2006)

I'm done ....*sigh*


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## kaykay (Jul 29, 2006)

Internet troll

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## MDMminis (Jul 29, 2006)

Your calling me a troll now because i don't agree with you and you like to cut off and go off topic when "POLITLY" asked not to.



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## JennyB (Jul 29, 2006)

[SIZE=12pt]Hey Hey Hey! Lets be nice to each other or Lewella will come in here and ban us all! :new_shocked: [/SIZE]

GC, I don't want to argue with you, but after studying Shetland lines for some 30 years and learning what I can about them and WE never stop learning, I've seen many grade American Shetland ponies . It is true not ever pony we see is an American Shetland. Gosh the American Shetland ponies of today do not have true bloodlines of Scottish Shetlands(although there are some out there who are half and more!). They have been made into the beautiful animals we choose to raise by infusions of Hackney, Welsh and ?? lines. There are many 100% American(mind you American is what we American's made them) who are grade. During the depression many ponies lost their paperwork and you could barely give them away. Lucky for us, many breeders were able to hold of their pony herds and wait for the market to get better which it did in a BIG way...then they hit bottom again and again many registered Shetland ponies lost their paperwork. Audrey Barrett told me a story about breeders who didn't like getting small foals from their mares, so they would take those foals and sell them at the local auctions-no papers for whatever they could get for them. I know many of those same ponies are the heritage of our Miniature horses today....Hey please don't say there are NO grade Shetlands out there because I had one. He came on a train to Washington state to some relatives of the then deceased famous Texas breeder, Will Williams. I used him as a great grade pony for many years, then Audrey Barrett helped me to find his paperwork and he became registered...What can I say!



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We need to be nice helpers and friends here to each other. It's places like this forum that we are lucky to have because they allow us to learn about the breed(yes American Shetlands are a bloodline breed) and also learn from each other. There are no TROLLS here Kay :no:

Lewella were are you? She herself has a grade Shetland mare who is believed to come off the Red Rock ranch...so there ya go...another grade American Shetland pony who can't get her paperwork or who might not have ever been registered in the first place!...like Copper's dam could very well be. I can bet dollars to donuts she came from registered American Shetland stock-lost or didn't get registered.... I could go on, but I won't.....



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Jenny



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## MDMminis (Jul 29, 2006)

That this is why i love you Jenny lol.



: Thanks yes i agree 100%, there all connected and they feed back to grade ponies so what are papers? Its just showing that you know the bloodline just because its grade does not make it not a shetland. Jenny is right we never know the history of this mare she could of been lost tracked in the pedigree and registry buissness.

Thanks Jenny



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