# Cart Plans?



## Linz (Dec 4, 2009)

I'm completely new to driving, and I was just wondering if anyone has made their own cart, wagon or sulky for their minis? I have access to a carpenter/cabinet maker, a pipe bender, wheels and everything, I might can even talk to a few welders too. The problem I'm coming up against in this, is that I don't have anything other than pictures off of the web for reference in building one. I also live near the Gulf Coast's beach, and I'd love to drive him on it (if I can). Does anyone drive on the beach, or in sand on a regular basis?

If anyone has done this, I'd love to hear about it. Pictures would be great too, if possible.

Thanks!


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 4, 2009)

Lots of people make their own carts and the one's that are any good at it are now making them for others



Usually when you make your first cart there is all kinds of fine tuning involved to make it a nice riding, well balanced cart and you seldom get it right off the giddy up! It will likely cost you far less in the long run to purchase a manufactured cart. A wagon is a little easier as it doesn't need to be quite as finely balanced but then a 4 wheel vehicle is not the best choice for a beginner driver or as a training vehicle.


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## Minimor (Dec 5, 2009)

Our first Mini cart was one a neighbor made--he made several of them so had done a good job on the cart in terms of size, balance, etc. I have photos of the cart & may still have measurements of everything, I'll have to look. We'd taken measurements because we were going to have a friend build another cart similar to that one, only with longer shafts. However, that friend never got around to starting the cart so we gave up & bought a CTM cart from Ozark Mtn. We ended up selling that first cart we had--the shafts were a little too short for our taller Bs. The same cart with 54" shafts would have worked well for us. If I can find those measurements I will PM you & send them (& photos) to you--might help you, might not.

I also have photos of a home made 4 wheel wagon that we had briefly--took it on a trade for something else & since we didn't want a 4 wheel vehicle we resold it. I didn't keep measurements of it though.


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## Linz (Dec 5, 2009)

Thanks for the info MiLo and Minimor.





Yes, I'd heard that 4-wheeled vehicles are not very good for a starter vehicle (Are wagons or buggies good for just team pulling then?), and I definitely need a training vehicle. I'd also heard that sulkies aren't very good for starter vehicles either? (But most of what I've heard said wasn't very clear on why... is it because of possible kicking or is it that it's just too light?)

The reason I want to make one for the horse, is it would be practice (because if I can get it right, or close to right for the mini...) for my cart goat. I want to eventually try and make a goat sulky too, which I would guess would be very similar to a mini horse sulky, just trimmed down a bit. Plus I love to do DIY projects when I can (and when it's safe).

Thanks Minimor, that'd be great if you can PM me with that.


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 5, 2009)

If the 4 wheel vehicle is sized right a single horse can pull it but the problem with them is that they are much easier to pull over than a 2 wheel vehicle as their turning radius is much larger. A cutunder vehicle is not quite so dangerous as one that the wheels can come up against the body.

Sulkies are a bit too light for training, easier to turn over, and you are also more likely to be trapped in a vehicle with stirrups should you turn it over so therefore it doesn't make for the best training vehicle.

If the goat is not actually pulling a lot of weight you wouldn't need to be as concerned about the balance so could likely get away with a homemade cart but if you are intending to actually sit in the cart and drive the goat you will need to be really conscious of how much weight you are putting on the shafts and therefore the goats back.


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## Linz (Dec 6, 2009)

MiLo Minis said:


> If the 4 wheel vehicle is sized right a single horse can pull it but the problem with them is that they are much easier to pull over than a 2 wheel vehicle as their turning radius is much larger. A cutunder vehicle is not quite so dangerous as one that the wheels can come up against the body.
> Sulkies are a bit too light for training, easier to turn over, and you are also more likely to be trapped in a vehicle with stirrups should you turn it over so therefore it doesn't make for the best training vehicle.
> 
> If the goat is not actually pulling a lot of weight you wouldn't need to be as concerned about the balance so could likely get away with a homemade cart but if you are intending to actually sit in the cart and drive the goat you will need to be really conscious of how much weight you are putting on the shafts and therefore the goats back.


Aah, that makes sense. I've been looking at the Hyperbike design, and I really like it. So if I had footpegs instead of stirrups, and possibly a way of weighting the sulky for more of a workout? I've also thought about a little chariot, but that could be pretty dangerous in and of itself.

The goat should just be pulling me (about 145 lbs at most) and the cart/sulky. I've seen some sort of cart/sulky that has this thing that bends with one shaft right over the animal's back that looks really neat, I'll have to see if I can't find the link.


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## Keri (Dec 6, 2009)

They sell cart plans on ebay. Never really checked them out. But maybe you should. Might have to downsize them to be mini size (or whatever you may be driving size). But I think they sell for around $20.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 6, 2009)

MiLo Minis said:


> Sulkies are a bit too light for training, easier to turn over, and you are also more likely to be trapped in a vehicle with stirrups should you turn it over so therefore it doesn't make for the best training vehicle.


Is there a specific kind of sulky you're thinking of, MiLo? I ask because I always think of show carts without their baskets when I think "sulky" and those wouldn't be any harder or easier to overturn then the showcart with a basket. I'd been considering using my Graber in roadster configuration for Turbo's first few drives but the more I think about it the more risky that seems. It's nice and light, yes, and as stable as the show cart configuration with basket, but if he kicks he's going to nail me directly and could easily get a foot stuck through one of the stirrups. Plus it's harder to step in and out of quickly than an easy entry.



Linz said:


> Aah, that makes sense. I've been looking at the Hyperbike design, and I really like it. So if I had footpegs instead of stirrups, and possibly a way of weighting the sulky for more of a workout?


I thought maybe you were thinking of the Hyperbike.



I have one and love it, but it's definitely not something you'd want to use as a training cart. I don't have any trouble getting in and out but the horse MUST stand absolutely still and youngsters have an alarming tendency to suddenly get a bee in their bonnets and walk off without warning. You could be in a world of hurt if that happened.



You wouldn't get your feet caught in the stirrups on the Hyperbike as it is more of a peg design, but there's plenty of other places on any given cart to get stuck.



It's best to start out with an easy-entry type style so you can hop in and out easily to make adjustments to the harness or get the horse used to pulling your weight for short periods of time. It's also great for emergency dismounts, which you may make a lot of before your horse is trained.





For beach driving make sure your cart has wide pneumatic tires to help it float on the sand. It's also helpful if your singletree is down low so the pressure the horse is applying to pull it is lifting it up and over the sand instead of dragging it across the sand. You'll want good paint on it too so the salt doesn't rust everything!







Linz said:


> I've seen some sort of cart/sulky that has this thing that bends with one shaft right over the animal's back that looks really neat, I'll have to see if I can't find the link.


That's a dorsal hitch- there's a thread about it on this forum that discusses some of the safety risks of that arrangment. It's pretty neat for circus work though- I saw an Andalusian pulling one once at Equitana USA.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Dec 7, 2009)

We build our own vehicles, but we don't really have any plans. Our first vehicle was a copy of one that we borrowed. It was cheaper than buying a wooden show cart and we even showed in it a few times, and did OK. It since has been diminished to being our breaking cart, as we have gotten much better at building since.

There is a lot of engineering that goes into building a cart, as Lori said above. Be aware that parts used on a horse cart are not the same as parts used on a bicycle, et al. The wheels are more substantial. We use wood shafts, not pipe, for safety, but there are carriage builders out there that use a certain kind of pipe for carts, such as the Smart Cart. Our specialty wooden parts are ultimately produced by Amish suppliers in Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania.

If you really want to build one yourself, borrow a WELL MADE cart and try to pattern it. I have seen a lot of "homemade" carts out there that I wouldn't use as lawn ornaments (not that I have lawn ornaments



). They just aren't safe. That being said, I won my Turnout class at Villa Louis, and the 2nd place cart was also built by a "hobby" builder, so if done right, they can compete! Good Luck!


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 7, 2009)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> MiLo Minis said:
> 
> 
> > Sulkies are a bit too light for training, easier to turn over, and you are also more likely to be trapped in a vehicle with stirrups should you turn it over so therefore it doesn't make for the best training vehicle.
> ...


Actually Leia, a show cart with the basket removed is essentially a sulky and it is considerably lighter with the basket removed making it easier to tip over than when it has the basket on but I was thinking of a traditional race bike type exercise sulky when I was making my reply. They are a very light weight vehicle but not great for training as the stirrups make for a dangerous configuration. I would stick with an easy entry which, as you have seen with mine, can take a beating occasionally.



I also prefer an easy entry with wooden slats making up the "basket" as those wire ones would be killer if a foot went through them - makes me shudder thinking of the result.


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## Linz (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks for all the help!





Ok, so cart it is then. Wooden slats seem to make more sense, and they'd probably be easier to put on. On the wooden shafts... anyone know if they're one piece (steam bent) or pieced together in a frame/mold, glued, and pressed? (I've been told that the latter is actually stronger.)

I would gladly ask to look at someone's good cart, if I knew of anyone down here that had one, but I haven't heard of anyone else down here using their minis for driving at all. I did find that Kingston Saddlery has lots of parts and things, and I'm getting tempted to just save up and get a starter cart, but most of those seem to have the metal shafts.



They do however have some illustrations of the shafts that would probably help in my dad (carpenter/cabinetmaker) making them.

One of the reasons I want to try and do this myself, is that if I do ever show... I would like to implement some of the "waste" wood my dad gets (Purple heart, canary, etc.) into the frame of a cart. But if anyone knows of a used cart for sale in the Gulf Coast region I'd be happy to hear about it.

Really is too bad that you couldn't make something similar to the Hyperbike with longer shafts and have a detachable basket for it.


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## RhineStone (Dec 8, 2009)

All specialty wooden parts on carriage are bentwood: shafts, felloes (rims) on wheels, circle bar, etc. That is why we don't bother making those pieces ourselves and purchase them from the Amish.

I will see if I can find out if there are driving clubs in your area that might connect you with other mini drivers.

I looked on the ADS website for the Regional Director in your area. Her email is [email protected]

Maybe you can contact her and she might know who in your area is driving minis. Be aware that when we borrowed the first cart we patterned, we went over two hours to pick it up. It's not something that is very commonly done. We just happened to connect with people at the carriage shows.


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## Linz (Dec 8, 2009)

Ah, steam boxes, that makes things a heck of a lot harder to do. Thanks for the info!


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## dangerranger (Dec 27, 2009)

I make my own, Im currently making my fourth one. it will be an open wheel roadster. Ill try to post a pic tomorow. I havent had any problems ballencing mine. the biggest problem I had was getting a seat that looks right and is comfortable. the first I made was flat wood, it was comfortable but was slick and on a couple of bumpy turns I found myself glad I put on a side rail. I had that seat upolstered and they added too much foam, my wifes feet nolonger hit the floor. so right now its out having the foam cut down. I still have and use the first one, and have sold and given away two more. But I really enjoy making them almost as much as driving them. DR


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## dangerranger (Dec 27, 2009)

here are my first and latest, latest is still under construction. both have their seats off to be upolstered. we have B minis but I designed in a way to lower them in case we find a little guy. DR


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## whitney (Dec 27, 2009)

My fiance made me a sulky for Christmas like a hyperbike, but with silver flames on the side and a garden tractor seat. Have yet to hook it to a mini he still needs to put the foot pegs on, and we may have found better wheels. Really lite too 40 lbs. With 24" wheels it turns on a dime. May end up turning the shafts so they have hooked ends. This was his first attempt and it is AWESOME! He restores muscle cars so it is REALLY PRETTY!!!


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