# Can men and women just be friends?



## maplegum (Sep 27, 2007)

My husband has a female 'friend' that I have never met, although he has given me the opportunity to. They both have lots on common, including his love of flying. She has her current pilots licence and invites my husband on trips, just the 2 of them.

Last time they went, he was gone for 12 hours with her, leaving me in quite a distressed state at home. He arrived home at midnight to a very upset wife! :nono:

I don't enjoy flying so going along with them is out of the question. I don't want to hold him back, but can't help but feel very upset and jealous. I'm trying so hard to support him, but it rips me apart.

Am I wrong having these rotten feelings inside me? I can't help but think he is starting a friendship, that will develop into something else! This is so confusing because I do trust him, so why am I feeling this way?? 

I'm really confused over this one, my feelings are torn between supporting him and then being a jealous green eyed monster! I'm not even sure that meeting this girl would help as she is very attractive, a lovely person, has so much in common with hubby and much younger.

Aghhhh, I hate feeling like this! HELP!


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## Mona (Sep 27, 2007)

Have you told your husband (in a calm manner) you you are feeling inside, in regards to this "friendship" of his? I must say, I too would be feeling much the same as you. It is hard not to think of the things that COULD happen, even when it starts out so innocently. I guess maybe it is deep seated jealousy, and although I am able to control it , I think if I were in your position, I would find it VERY difficult to do then. I KNOW TRUST is something so very important to any relationship, but at the same time, it would still be playing on your mind. Sorry, I was not of any help to you, but am just saying I do support your feelings, or can understand how you must feel the way you do. I hope you and your husband can just sit down and talk about this in detail, at some time other than when he comes home from an "outing" with this friend.


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## Marty (Sep 27, 2007)

I would stomp on her flying face so fast........

If some woman knowing full well my husband was married, invited him to go flying,

you could rest assured that if he went, I would be in the cargo pit and made sure that

both of them went flying, my way.


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## Reble (Sep 27, 2007)

I agree with Marty not my man :deadhorse2:


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## Charlene (Sep 27, 2007)

whoa! this opens old wounds. i ended a 25 year marriage because of a woman you have described to a "t".


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## maplegum (Sep 27, 2007)

Oh ladies, thanks for making me feel like I'm not the only one out there who thinks that this is wrong wrong wrong!

I want to add, that this young lady is also in a relationship, but not living with her partner. Not that it makes a difference I guess.

I asked him how he would feel if I had a male friend that I went out with and he replied with 'Well i trust you so it wouldn't be a problem'.....Hmmm

He keeps telling me it's an insecurity issue I have and it's my problem that I need to sort out.


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## mininik (Sep 27, 2007)

It's my understanding that in situations like these you are supposed to let your partner go and trust that what happens is meant to be. Jelousy is said to be a result of your own insecurities. Afterall, if your partner truly loves you, there should be no worries about infidelity.

That's all well and good, but I also believe in creating healthy boundaries within relationships.



:


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## Leeana (Sep 27, 2007)

Have you ever seen that movie called 'look whos talking now'? The one with the talking dogs and Krisi Alley and John Travolta .......????????????????????????

Nope, sorry ..i wouldnt let my man (what man ..sigh






go. Yes they can just be friends but that sounds to fishy to me.


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## alongman (Sep 27, 2007)

Who wrote the rules on friends? Since when can men and women not have a friendship without having anything more than common interests? Not every man finds every woman attractive - nor does every woman find every man to be "the one". Maybe they DO have just a friendship. You said you didn't enjoy flying and he obviously does - maybe he doesn't see her as a "woman" but rather a friend who enjoys to do something similar so he doesn't have to go alone. I'm not saying communication isn't key, but rather than accuse, how about find out everything. It seems he hasn't tried to "hide" anything and in fact has encouraged you to meet his friend. Why not take him up on it? Maybe you'll find that she is just, indeed, a friend.

Also, maybe he's just as jealous of you and your friends.


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## Charlene (Sep 27, 2007)

maplegum said:


> Oh ladies, thanks for making me feel like I'm not the only one out there who thinks that this is wrong wrong wrong!
> 
> I want to add, that this young lady is also in a relationship, but not living with her partner. Not that it makes a difference I guess.
> 
> ...


nothing good can possibly come from this. just the fact that it makes you uncomfortable should be enough for him to END this friendship. there are no two ways about it. trust has nothing to do with it. he is not respecting your feelings and believe me, for him to say he trusts you and it wouldn't matter if YOU had a male "friend", his tune would change in a heartbeat if he was faced with it. YOU are his wife. what is more important to him?

i lived with this situation for 4 years thinking it would "get better". when i finally had enough of the two of them out for late night dinners while i sat home alone with a peanut butter sandwich and mindless t.v. (or even worse, their early morning breakfasts at the holiday inn!!! :new_shocked: ), i gave him an ultimatum. i said it's her or me. his response was "don't make me choose between my marriage and my friendship." my response was "you just did." i moved out shortly after.

not long after our divorce, she moved on. some friend she was to him, huh?


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## Sonya (Sep 27, 2007)

I suppose it is possible for man/woman to be friends without no hanky panky...but frankly I've never seen it.. I am not saying your hubby is doing anything wrong.

I would feel the same way you do and I DO trust my husband just as you do yours. Believe me, if it were you hanging out with an attractive man that you have lots in common with....he'd be having a fit!

It is not about trust...it's about respect for your feelings...and your feelings should come first...way over his love of flying! Quite frankly, if I was you...I'd forbid him to go and if he doesn't understand why, then he is being selfish...his marriage should come first.

You are not being a jealous monster at all...my feelings on these kinds of things are why put oneself in a situation where something could happen or a situation that may cast doubt to your spouse or significant other. Example... I would never go out to a bar/nightclub without my husband and he will not without me.

edited to add: If I were single I would never ever even consider having anykind of relationship (even just friends) with a married man...it's just asking for trouble!

My sister went through something like this...her hubby was fooling around with her best friend/neighbor/her horse trainer...it was a very ugly situation...he claimed they were just friends too...don't want to scare you, but stop this friendship now before the situation gets worse.

And this is not YOUR problem...this is his problem...and he needs to fix it...right away! ((hugs))


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## Roxy's Run (Sep 27, 2007)

Nope, nope nope!!!! NO way!!!! Been there DONE that!!!!! While I have never been married, I was in a seven year relationship with a guy and we even lease purchased MY dream home together. Well, within 1 1/2 years of living in our new home, we met a neighbor whom we both became very good friends with. I mean, she and I got along great!!!! We were like two sisters - always together, had the same interests, etc. Well, little did I know that my ex who was also friends with her, was working on getting "TOO FRIENDLY"!!!! When I asked him about it, he responded, "What are you talking about? You are so insecure!!!! It's just Gail." I will never forget those words. When I confronted her (Gail) she asked me to leave her property. I had my answer. I packed up all my stuff and on the way out, I threw a patio chair at my ex and that was it. I lost the love my life, my dream home, and what I truly thought was a good friend. That was 12 years ago. Not a day goes by that I don't think about it. I was truly devistated even to this day.

But that is MY story. I can't say whether your husband is doing the same or not. But his response to you about "your insecurity" just sent shivers through me. (((HUGS)))

Linda

Roxy's Run Miniatures


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## Minimor (Sep 27, 2007)

I have a couple of good friends that are men, and who happen to be married. Definitely nothing going on other than friendship & never will be. At the same time, I wouldn't take off for 12 hours with one of them either. I know how I'd feel if that were my husband taking off with another woman for that length of time.

I have other friends that are friends with someone of the opposite sex, and in some cases they do spend that kind of time together on some occasions (and yes, married on both sides). As a bystander who is also a friend I'd like to think that there's nothing going on that shouldn't be, but there is talk about them & you do have to wonder if maybe the talk is right. In one case someone approached me & asked for the scoop on a fellow I know--he'd been seen at a lot of functions with a woman other than his wife, and the story was going around that he & his wife were no longer together, because he'd taken up with this other woman. I was able to say for sure that the story was false as to the marriage breakup, but I couldn't vouch for just how close the guy was with this other woman. I did tell the fellow about the story that was going around about him and his broken marriage--he wasn't aware of it--the friendship is still there but not to the extent that it was and I've noticed that his wife tends to be around more now. The stories have died down.

It's not a matter of trust. I have known more than one wife that was very trusting of her faithful husband--no worries whatsoever, whether the husband was spending time with a female friend or if he was travelling with a female co-worker--all that trust, and all of it misplaced, because it did come to light that it wasn't innocent friendship or a simple working relationship. And in one case it was reversed--trusting hubby eventually learns that he shouldn't have been so trusting of his wife's male friend...

and I'm afraid I don't buy into the idea of "you're jealous of my friendship which means that the real problem isn't my friendship with this person, the real problem is your insecurity" Uh uh, that is a cop out. That one ranks right down there with "well yes, I'm having an affair with this person, but that's entirely your fault because I only see her on Wednesday night, when you are at your drama group--if you weren't away that one evening each week it wouldn't have happened". That was the excuse given to a coworker of mine. She fell for it, gave up her once a week drama group to stay home with hubby, and guess what? He moved his affair to the afternoons when she was at work...

In your case I'd be inclined to be accepting of a couple hours flying time here & there, but the all day, 12 hour jaunts are a bit much. Sooner or later I believe that hanky panky does come into the friendship!


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## maplegum (Sep 27, 2007)

Thank you everyone. I really am so confused.



:

He has only been out on a handful of occasions with her. He does not hide anything from me as far as emails, phone calls etc. He has mentioned on many occasions that I should meet her to put my mind at rest.

I don't get the feeling he is doing anything wrong with her, but I can't help but feel terribly jealous.

I'd really love to hear some men reply here, as men often have a different point of view.

I have spoken with him on all levels regarding this, through anger, tears and also just being totally honest with him. I don't want to stop him living out his passion as it would be forever held against me. I really don't want to be a wife that tells my husband what he can and can't do.

If the shoe was on the other foot though, I would put my partners feelings above my own desires. I guess thats why it makes it so hard to understand his point of view.


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## mininik (Sep 27, 2007)

Question. If he is hiding things... how would you know?



:

Please know that just because you meet her or even become friends with her doesn't mean anything hasn't happened, is happening or will happen between her and your husband.

Asking your husband to agree to some HEALTHY BOUNDARIES does not mean giving up his love of flying. It also does not have to mean giving up his friendship.

In the end you cannot make your husband or anyone do what you want them to do. You can only express what you want and go from there. It's really not about what's right or wrong, it's about what YOU want. If in the end you are not able to get what you want, well...


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 27, 2007)

Okay, lets see if I have this right, you husband loves to fly, it's one of his passions in life and you don't like to fly. He has a female friend who loves to fly so they go out flying together. She has a boyfriend. How does the boyfriend feel about his girlfriend spending this time with another man? Does this woman call your husband up or does he call her at any other time? or is it strictly only when they want to go flying. Jealousy is a very ugly thing and is not very becoming behaviour, it doesn't make a person attractive to his or her partner when the foundation of the jealousy is not backed up with facts that something is going on. I understand how you feel but being jealous ist only going to make the situation worse and you may alienate your life partner. Does he work with this woman? are they in daily contact...these are all things that might shed more light on your suspecting something is going on or could happen.

Can someone have a strong friendship with a person of the opposite sex and nothing ever happen, YES!!! Before I moved away from Russell, one of my best friends was a male as we both shared a passion for horses. I spent alot of time with this person, going to horse shows etc, and it was strictly a friendship. My husband is not a horse person or an animal person like I am. I have a passion for animals, especially horses. My husband was not interested in going to horse shows. So should I have stayed home because he didn't want to go to horseshows???? I would just have resented him for it, BIG TIME. Oh sometimes he would come to the shows but he drove me absolutely insane, complaining the entire time and I am the kind of person who loves to watch anything equine. I can't explain my passion, it's just something I have had since I was a child when it comes to horses and all animals. It's difficult when your life partner doesn't share in whatever passion you have in life. Sure I could have gone to the horseshows by myself but it wouldn't have been much fun, having my male friend with me made it fun and I had someone to talk to who felt the same way about horses, that was all it was.

Why don't you invite this woman with her boyfriend over to your house, get to know him and her. You might just put your mind at ease at the same time about this situation. Don't jump to conclusions just because people are saying well so and so had this happen or this happened to me.... Only you know your husband well enough.....one question to ask yourself, has your husband ever given you a reason to feel insecure in the past about a situation that would make you look twice at this particularly situation?

Would you consider going flying with him once in awhile? It's so much more fun to share a passion with someone who has the same likes then having to do things alone all the time...


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## PaintedPromiseRanch (Sep 27, 2007)

yes i had a man friend, he was like a brother to me, the big brother i always wanted... and yes my boyfriend was jealous of him even though he was also in a relationship and we sometimes "double-dated". we both loved horses and our significant others just weren't into it like we were so we went riding together all the time, my kids treated him like a well-loved uncle and he even loaned my daughter a truck the whole first year she was driving. HOWEVER i do believe that this was the exception to the rule and have also been in many other situations, and known other people, where it was supposed to be innocent and was not. you have had some good advice here though. i like the idea of having her and her boyfriend over and get to know them both... however i must honestly say i also like the idea of :deadhorse2:


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## Bess Kelly (Sep 27, 2007)

I am all for a husband/wife participating in their interests with another person if their husband/wife does not enjoy the same excursions!!! Last time I thought about pilots, probably 95% were male -- maybe why I thought about them



: So, tell me, doesn't he know another MAN who loves to fly? 

:new_shocked:

As to opposite sex friends, yes this happens. In fact, I have a few!! However, most were paired as same sex couples -- no jealously there. Even with straight opposite sex friends, constant time together can be a situation that develops differently that same sex ones.

Meeting the friend and her boyfriend together could be an eye opener. But, I would suggest he join the "boys club" at the hanger....before the friendship destroys your own mind & life. Trust your gut and ask hubby to respect your insecurities.


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## maplegum (Sep 28, 2007)

To answer some of your questions...

How does the boyfriend feel about his girlfriend spending this time with another man?

*He was a little strange towards my husband on their 1st meeting but has since relaxed apparently.*

Does this woman call your husband up or does he call her at any other time? or is it strictly only when they want to go flying.

*Yes, they occsionally call each other as they are both volunteer fire fighters but in different branches. They have both attended 'training days' together, thats how they met.*

So, tell me, doesn't he know another MAN who loves to fly?

*My husband has his pilots licence, but it has expired. This lady offers to take him flying, free of charge, which I guess is pretty hard to pass up. Renting and flying a plane is very expensive, something we can't afford at the moment.*

Would you consider going flying with him once in awhile?

*I'm terrified of planes!*


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## Marty (Sep 28, 2007)

I read someplace that you can tell if your husband is cheating is if he suddenly has taken

a new interest in his appearance and has bought new underwear. :new_shocked:


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## maplegum (Sep 28, 2007)

Marty said:


> I read someplace that you can tell if your husband is cheating is if he suddenly has taken
> 
> a new interest in his appearance and has bought new underwear. :new_shocked:



>>>>> Checking his underwear drawer NOW! :new_shocked:


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## RainSong (Sep 28, 2007)

Honestly, I wondered the same thing once or twice with Dave- he made a friend at work who was blonde and skinny as a rail, and he offered to take her home from work sometimes.

I got over it pretty quick after I confessed- and even met her and became friends with her myself!


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## minimama (Sep 28, 2007)

Ok, cheating or not, thinking about it or not, if you value your marriage and your family you simply do not put yourself in temptations path. You steer clear! No if's and's or but's! And, if your spouse is having issues with someone you are around you repsect them enough to fix it, and not be around that person if at all possible. Which in this case it is totaly possible.

Your husband is not necessarily cheating but maybe really enjoying the attention this woman gives to him. That is bad enough and can lead to thoughts that do not need to be there.


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## Girrawheen (Sep 28, 2007)

[SIZE=14pt]I am responding here as I can't e-mail you at home about this over the weekend.[/SIZE]

You have received some very good advice here!

The thing that I don't like is:

a) him pointing out that *you* are insecure

&

b) that he has continued to see this woman even though he knows how much it upsets you.

You are such a beautiful person and do not deserve this treatment. I do understand that everyone is different (it's what makes the world go around) however, I am from the school of "do not do to others what you would not like done to yourself".

I would never form a close friendship with ANY man out of pure respect for my husband. He also would never do that to me (he knows first hand how dangerous it is to get too close to friends as he caught his ex-wife sleeping with his so called FRIEND!).

Why would a married man/woman really feel the need to have a close friend of the opposite sex??

My father had numerous affairs before my mother finally had the courage to leave him. The thing that makes me sick now, is how he turned the situation around blaming my Mum for him having affairs! The only problem I can see looking back, is that my Father simply had a problem keeping his $&*@ in his pants. My poor Mum had nothing to do with it! He was always going to have affairs, it is just the type of man he is!

Also I agree 100% about not putting yourself in a situation where there could be temptation. It has nothing to do with trust and everything to do with respect. By spending time (like 12 hours) with someone of the opposite sex, it is inevitable that chemistry will develop at some point. This is very dangerous territory in my opinion.

All I can say is this.........if you can handle this situation (be 100% honest with yourself) then you have no problem......................but.............. if you can't handle it (and really, who could) then he needs to end the situation out of respect for you or you need to really think about your future together!

I love you and will be here for you no matter what




:



:



:



:



:

[SIZE=14pt]Speak to you over the weekend.[/SIZE]


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Sep 28, 2007)

There is an old saying.... Keep your friends close.... keep your enemies closer.

I am not saying that this woman is your enemy... but get to know her, check her out, watch her closely and see what her intentions are. Watch her eyes. Watch how she dresses. Check his email and cell phone records too.

I would also bite the bullet and "learn to enjoy" flying. Be his flying buddy, NOT HER!


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## Katie12 (Sep 28, 2007)

I have a friend who is CLAIMING to have a "JUST FRIENDS" relationship with her boss. She thinks everyone is stupid. Your husband is having no regard for your feelings that would be my first red flag!


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## backwoodsnanny (Sep 28, 2007)

Well Im not going to get into your personal specifics but am going to answer your original question. Can a man or woman have a friend who is of the opposite sex. I have been married almost 40 years and the answer is yes. We have many mutual friends who are friends to both of us but closer to one of us or the other. While many of these friendships started with one of us they have almost all developed into friendships that we both enjoy. Have I ever been jealous sure has he ever been jealous sure. We both have worked away from home with members of the opposite sex for many years. IF you want to know more about the motivation behind your husbands friendship get to know her. The unknown can be much worse than someone you know. If your hubby is a dog he will be a dog no matter wht you say or think. If he is an honorable husband he will be that on all fronts. I dont buy into the physical attraction always takes place given time and opportunity. NOT ALWAYS. It depends greatly on the nature of the people involved. I have never had an affair and truly have never been tempted I took my vows to heart. Not that many do that but I have had several male friends and still do and wouldnt trade them just as my hubby has several female friends and he wouldnt trade them either. The perspective we get from those friends help us both be better spouses to each other but as I said it all depends on what you go looking for.


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## Sonya (Sep 28, 2007)

> We have many mutual friends who are friends to both of us but closer to one of us or the other.


The key word here is mutual...this is not a mutual friendship.


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## ChrystalPaths (Sep 28, 2007)

Hmmmm, I've read the replies and I will still answer, yes. Men and women can be just friends but married folk need to be sensitive to the reactions of their spouse. I have friend, a guy for over 30 yrs now. When I married I made sure my husband knew Micheal was part of the pkg. He is my soul brother, if I were male he is who I would be. Being male he can do all the exciting things I used to be able to do in my youth but with kids couldn't any more. He married and his wife had a real problem with it and it yes it hurt our relationship but he backed off only calling twice yearly, I've seen him 3 times in 22 yrs..granted he lives in Wa now but he used to live closer. I chose to stand my ground and keep my "friend", however he gave me up so to speak but it's nice to hear from him now and again but it isn't the same and I miss my brother.

For you, I would meet her, sit about on the ground and watch the planes, let your woman's intuition flow and then decide. Friends, be they male or female, are very hard to find let alone keep. One just has to have boundaries and respect for their signifigant other and never hurt them with a friendship. One's wife/husband/ sig other is most important...but that siad a human must thrive on a variety of people and experience. I Hate flying and won't either BUT it is fun to watch.


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## Charlene (Sep 28, 2007)

years ago, when i was going through this very same thing, oprah did a show about this very topic. something she said stuck with me and that was the fact that even IF (big BIG if) there is nothing physical going on between this man and his "friend", the emotional attachment he feels to her is every bit as threatening to a marriage as a physical relationship would be.

for me, just the fact that i begged, cried, pleaded, screamed, threw things, cajoled, promised to change MYSELF (even though i didn't know what those changes could have even been--not saying i am or was perfect but he sure never complained), sought counseling, beat myself up for apparently not being what he wanted me to be, tried to include myself in their outings (i was turned down every single time when i suggested perhaps i could join them for supper)...all of those things made absolutely no difference.

while i was no slouch and took great pains to keep myself fit, she was 30 years younger, very attractive, sickeningly cute, had hair to die for, was a professional (they worked together), i simply could not compete with her and my marriage ended over it.

that was 11 years ago and even though at this point, my ex and i are very good friends, i cannot even say her name nor can i visualize her without wanting to rip her head off and vomit down her neck. never, in a million years, can i forget or forgive the hurt i felt.


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## Jill (Sep 28, 2007)

Ooooh, no. I'd not be having any of that going on.

What I think is that men/women usually are one-on-one doing things as just two people alone unless at least one of them has a romantic interest in the other.


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## Sonya (Sep 28, 2007)

You wanted a man's point of view...so I asked my husband...and let him read this post.

He says no...this is not good and it is not acceptable.

He said what Marty said....stomp on her flying face!


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## Cathy_H (Sep 28, 2007)

I haven't read the other responses & since I read your post last night I don't remember if she is HAPPILY married or not. If not, then I would be concerned... If they fly together 1-2 times a year then I would not worry so much - more often - yes.... The problem with this situation is it sets them up for more temptation should the "ya wanna" arises........... Out of respect for you he should discontinue this practice. If he does not I would find my own hobby, perhaps one both sexes are interested in.. What about dance classes - where you don't need to take a partner? Perhaps there will be someone there that you can dance with & make sure your hubby hears how much fun you are having dancing with this man....... Float around the house smiling, humming or to music pretending to have a partner dancing in your hubby's presence. Betcha if he thinks you are thinking about your dance partner he will be jealous too. If he does not get the picture & stop then I would start questioning his respect for you & your marriage vowels... I feel the cement of a marriage is respecting your partners desires & feelings ( within reason of course). Print this thread out & let him read it if he feels you are being unreasonable.


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## txminipinto (Sep 28, 2007)

Ok, I'll play devils advocate here.

I have been in this situation SEVERAL times and I've always been "THE OTHER WOMAN". Yes, men and women can have platonic, close friendships without it ever developing into an "affair". On my side, my husband has NEVER suggested that I was having an affair with these men. Most of my closest TRUE friends are men and most are married, happily. It totally depends on the two individals in the friendship and what their motives are for spending time together. If it's a shared passion that the other spouses don't share, I see no problem with spending time together. Sometimes it's just the conversation that fuels the friendship. I think we can all agree that at times conversations in our own households are boring and have no depth. I have much greater converstations outside my home with my FRIENDS, male and female, simply because my husband is exhausted when he gets home from work. To have a deep conversation with him, I have to get him trapped in the truck going somewhere (and that's if I don't fall asleep first!).

If the woman has no interest in your husband other than a flying companion ( if my husband can't go to a show with me, I feel much safer if I have a man traveling with me. Sexist I know, but I'm less likely to be bothered if a man is with me and if I have truck/trailer problems, I have someone with a strong back to help me too!



: ), then bring her into your life as well. Women who are friends, will not betray each other. Plus it's a little harder for any hanky panky if you're hanging around.

Now, some men do have that wandering eye.....if you don't trust your husband to begin with then you can't be comfortable with his female friendships. But if he's never given you a reason NOT to trust him, I would check my own insecurities in the mirror (and we all have them). Jealousy is only a reflection of insecurity.

But if you're right, and he is cheating on you......you don't need him anyway.


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## Charlene (Sep 28, 2007)

txmini, with all due respect, i think you might be missing the point. the problem here lies in the fact that maplegum has EXPRESSED her displeasure to her husband and he KNOWS she feels threatened by his relationship with this woman. innocent of any hanky panky or not, since he knows how much this bothers her, he should respect his WIFE'S wishes and end it.

i don't believe there is any give and take in this situation. it would be real interesting to hear his response if he was given the choice of ending this friendship or ending his marriage. i also don't think anybody can truly comprehend the emotions that surface unless one has actually been in this situation.


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## txminipinto (Sep 28, 2007)

Charlene, I've heard the point. BUT, respect and trust are on a two way street. HE needs to sit down with Maplegum and address her fears. And Maplegum needs to meet this "friend" and give this friend a chance to prove herself. I see the husband's side if this is just a friendship. And if my husband expressed fears that I was having an affair with one of MY male friends, you'd bet within a month we'd all be having dinner together. Friends are hard to come by and we all need them, even if we are married.


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## Charlene (Sep 28, 2007)

txminipinto said:


> Charlene, I've heard the point. BUT, respect and trust are on a two way street. HE needs to sit down with Maplegum and address her fears. And Maplegum needs to meet this "friend" and give this friend a chance to prove herself. I see the husband's side if this is just a friendship. And if my husband expressed fears that I was having an affair with one of MY male friends, you'd bet within a month we'd all be having dinner together. Friends are hard to come by and we all need them, even if we are married.


i totally agree with the "two-way street" analogy but that's not what i see happening here. she feels threatened, she has expressed this to him yet he continues to pursue what HE wants. where's the respect for her feelings???

and, i don't think she is disrespecting him by questioning motives.


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## alongman (Sep 28, 2007)

So you dislike his activity - you mentioned it to him. Hypothetically, then, if you expect him to drop his flying habit since you dislike it, are you then willing to walk away from something he dislikes. There are a lot of men showing horses these days - be careful what you wish for. If he DOES give up flying and then asks you to stop with the horses, be prepared to send them packing. It is INDEED a two way street.


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## Charlene (Sep 28, 2007)

i used to show horses. i don't recall ever spending 12 consecutive hours with one male other than my gelding.


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## Sonya (Sep 28, 2007)

She is not asking him to drop his flying hobby...she is asking him to drop the so called "friend" and as his wife she has every right to. Someone said in an early post...who makes up the rules of friendship? Well, she, as his wife does. This "woman" is already causing problems in her marriage whether something is going on or not, it doesn't really matter. This is HER husband and she has a problem with the friendship and she should come first...bottom line! If he had a problem with a male friend of hers...yes, it is a two-way street. If one doesn't find their spouse stimulating enough to talk to, then there are already problems anyway. And a twelve hour trip coming home at midnight is totally unacceptable...


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## mininik (Sep 28, 2007)

RIGHT ON, Sonya!


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## SunQuest (Sep 28, 2007)

Ok, here is my reply without reading the rest of the replies.

Can men and women be just freinds? Well, yes, of course. BUT.... Here is the thing. When two people are married (or in any serious committed relationship), both people should be looking out for the other person's feelings FIRST and FOREMOST!!!!

You are NOT asking for your husband to stop flying. You are NOT holding him back from his hobbies. You are asking your husband to NOT put himself into a situation that will or could lead to temptation.

Further, your husband is NOT taking your feelings into account first. He is NOT making you his priority. And he is only ADDING to the perseption of infedelity by discounting your feelings. This is a MAJOR problem for your marriage. If you have a problem with it, he should care enough for you to make sure that he is no longer causing you to have hurt over it. He should find other friends to fly with.

I won't post here why I say those things, but I will tell you that you are perfectly correct to feel the way you do, and further, you SHOULD BE suspicious of this! If your husband cares one iota about you, he will stop seeing her *BECAUSE YOU are worried and he loves you enough to see to it that you are not hurting!* Listen to your gut on this one!!!

Oh... as another side note... You husband is acting inappropriet by seeing a woman alone. The opertunity is there for this to go further even though the intent may not be there today. I would view this totally differently if he was going with her and it was a group of people that you approved of going so that they were not alone!


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## Bluerocket (Sep 28, 2007)

I have had many male friends (I am female) in my life that I would go do things with and neither of us had the slightest interest in each other - other than as friends. Some were married and some were not. Usually we would be on business trips together in different countries -- and we would chum around -- as we would not know anyone else there.

It is very possible that what he (and she) claims is just a friendship - IS just a friendship.

If they invite you along -- GO! see for yourself. But don't go with a suspicious attitude. You don't have to be a pollyanna either -- just keep hold of your heart and play nice.

(You could even invite her over -- for something YOU would enjoy doing with your husband (and another person) -- just treat her like one of the guys.)

If after being around them you are still "suspicious" or have "bad gut feelings" -- then there is a good chance your bad gut feelings are right. If you trust your husband - give him the benefit of the doubt --- and get to know her too.

JJay


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## Charlene (Sep 28, 2007)

i should probably stop posting in this thread (raise your hand if you're saying YAYY!!  ) but i have to ask you after being in this identical position...

do you REALLY think that if the wife is included in one of these outings that THEY are actually going to even give a HINT they might be more than just friends??? i mean, c'mon! wife goes along for dinner or whatever, it's just the 3 of them...they are gonna be on their BEST behavior.

been there, done that, have the tee shirt. it all goes back to what sunquest said. this man MUST take his WIFE'S feelings into consideration. his marriage vows didn't say "only unto her unless i happen to want to have a female friend whether she likes it or not." :no:


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## txminipinto (Sep 28, 2007)

All that I am saying, is give this friendship a chance. His friendship with HER might bring another friend for YOU into your life. What you are doing is ASSUMING and in the end, assumptions hurt EVERYBODY. Even if he does end the platonic friendship for you, he may resent you, wife or not. Invite her into your life and see for yourself. For all you know, she may be a leisbian and TOTALLY not interested in him.




:

Oh, and I spend plenty of hours alone with men other than my husband. And I'm not interested in any of them other than for friendships and coworkers. I'm called out in the middle of the night by male residents and surgeons for work, and if my husband didn't trust ME those 2 am phone calls could easily be assumed into "booty" calls! :new_shocked: And it isn't unheard of for me to be at work 24 hours straight when I'm on call.


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## kaykay (Sep 28, 2007)

Hmm a bit of a hot topic

Do I think men and women can be friends. Absolutley yes. Would I spend 12 continuous hours with a male friend. Absolutley not.

Can you even fly for 12 hrs?



:

I had a male friend a couple years ago. And my husband was very understanding. But it did get to a point where it was interferring in my relationship with my husband and that is when I backed off.

Having been married for 22 years my husband is the most important relationship in my life. I did not want to do anything to harm that and I felt this friendship was doing that. Even though my husband was not yelling and screaming I know him well enough to know it was making him uncomfortable. And that was enough for me to back off this friendship. I didnt end the friendship just backed off





I think its a matter of respect. I respect and love my husband enough to not want to make him uncomfortable and really in the end HE is my best friend.


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## alongman (Sep 28, 2007)

This may be slightly different, but I work in a profession where we are put into ambulances (16 hour shifts) with partners (male or female). Quite often these partners become as close as any family member and often are part of the family. I worked today, and after seeing this thread, just had to ask some of my co-workers what their thoughts were. I spoke with a crew (Diane and Steve) - both happily married with families. Diane and Steve work 40+ hours/week with each other. Diane says that there are many weeks she sees Steve more than her own husband. Steve concurred. They have a similar interest, often go to each others' family functions. Here's the kicker - I asked if their spouses had ever mentioned anything. Both said that initially, YES! They felt as though this "relationship" was more than just work. They curbed this by INVITING their spouses to meet. The two families are now GREAT friends - ALL OF THEM! It is hard to put jealousy aside at times, I understand. Try it! You never know. Maybe they do have JUST a friendship!!!!

Also, one of my good friends is a pilot - he often goes for day/evening trips. It's not uncommon for him to go for 8-12 hours at a time. As for spending time with someone at a show, there are days I haven't called my significant other until LATE at night after spending an entire day with just a few of the people stalled closest to me.


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## SunQuest (Sep 28, 2007)

txminipinto said:


> Oh, and I spend plenty of hours alone with men other than my husband. And I'm not interested in any of them other than for friendships and coworkers. I'm called out in the middle of the night by male residents and surgeons for work, and if my husband didn't trust ME those 2 am phone calls could easily be assumed into "booty" calls! :new_shocked: And it isn't unheard of for me to be at work 24 hours straight when I'm on call.


The thing is that your husband does not have an issue with this. That is then totally different.

When it gets to the point that the "other" person and the spouse's relationship with that other person cause hurt feelings for the remaining spouse, then the person causing those hurt feelings should have enough respect for their spouse to back off of the relationship without the spouse asking for it to happen.

I find it interesting that many men and women fail to realize how they single handedly destroy a relationship that they should be doing everything in their power to nurture. How is spending 12 hours flying with another woman nurturing the marriage, especially when there are objections to it? It should not have to be asked to have it stop. The man should be automatically saying he was going to stop seeing her to this degree when she voiced her concerns.

And from experience, I will say that if he is afraid to stop seeing the "other" woman as much, then there is more in his heart than just a freindship.....


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## HGFarm (Sep 28, 2007)

There is a BIG difference in being called out to work in the middle of the night and your co workers happen to be male, than going off all day to 'play' with someone else of the opposite sex. Work can't be avoided and that is a business relationship.

I dont think I would be liking this much either :no: but then, I dont have a lot of trust in folks any more anyway. Been lied to just a few too many times by those that are supposed to be closest.

I would really have a good sit down talk and explain how you feel- why can't he buddy up with another flyer that is a GUY? I am sure there are plenty out there!


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## KanoasDestiny (Sep 28, 2007)

Ok....my husband LOVES to ride quads, and there's no way, no how, that I'm going to go out riding with him!!!!! Did my husband go out and find another female that would??? No....he teamed up with his best "guy" friend.

I have to share this...my friend was dating this guy for quite sometime. Then he began spending more time with this other girl, whom he ended up introducing as his cousin. Amanda spent countless hours with this girl, just hanging out. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary...they really acted like family when she was around....until she walked into the house one day and caught them "heavily" making out on the couch. :new_shocked:

Moral of the story...even if you meet her, they may be able to play things off really well! In my honest opinion...there is NO hobby out there, that someone can't find someone else of the SAME sex, to enjoy it with!!! If your husband or anyone else has to hang out with the opposite sex to have a "friend", then something is NOT right! Do I have friends of the opposite sex? Of course I do...and there's nothing going on...BUT it's more of a casual thing where we talk, but we don't make a special point to call each other, hang out, or stay out half the night alone. I'm like you...and I'd be very leery!


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## Charlene (Sep 28, 2007)

i'm curious about something. has your husband told this woman that you have a problem with their friendship? in my own situation, my then-husband actually TOLD this woman that i was not at all happy about the time they spent together. at one point, *I* even told her that i didn't appreciate her spending so much time with my husband and not including ME in their activities which, if they were indeed innocent, why were they so secretive? she laughed in my face. they continued their "friendship" and after 4 years of putting up with it, i filed for divorce.

i could fill a book with page after page of my reasons for being suspicious but how's this...

i'm in st. louis, 2 hours from home, being fitted for a bridesmaid dress for a friend's wedding.

i get home at 11:00 p.m. and find a note on the kitchen table.

they are out for dinner but he'd been over to feed the horses and found my old quarter horse mare out in the pasture, standing on 3 legs. he couldn't find the phone number for the vet so he left her there with some hay. no water, just hay.

i flew over to the barn expecting to find a mare with a serious injury. thankfully, it was minor but still, he should have stayed home and called every phone number in 10 counties until he found a vet. he knew how much i treasured my horses and this old mare was a very special girl.

when he finally showed up at midnight, that was the last straw for me. had he been out with his buddies, watching football in a sports bar or playing cards, maybe i could have forgiven him.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 28, 2007)

I am absolutely floored at how many of you have the opinion that women and men and vice versa are unable to be good friends (close friends) without it turning into something else. I am also glad that my husband has never told me what I can do and can't do, because he knows darn well that wouldn't work with me and neither would I ever dream of telling him he can't pursue his passions in life even though I might not be interested at all in his passions and he in mine. I am lucky he feels secure enough in himself and our relationship not to go looking for things that just aren't there and I feel secure enough in letting him follow what he likes to do. After 30 + years of marriage if the trust is not there it never will be. I guess as you get older you learn not to sweat the small stuff unless you have absolute proof it's not small stuff.


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## Katie12 (Sep 28, 2007)

I think you should take up flying even if for a short time. Go on every flying trip with the 2 of them you can. Then see how long it takes for him to change his hobby.


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## KanoasDestiny (Sep 28, 2007)

Katie12 said:


> I think you should take up flying even if for a short time. Go on every flying trip with the 2 of them you can. Then see how long it takes for him to change his hobby.


Makes you wonder...if you were to muster up the courage and go with them...if they would keep you out until midnight too. :bgrin


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## RockRiverTiff (Sep 28, 2007)

Gosh. I had to really think about this. At first I couldn't even think of a male friend I would spend that much time alone with. And then I remembered when my partner went to Florida for a week. My guy friend Brandon, who was also my coworker at the time, would come over to our house to keep me company until the wee hours. The thing is, Brandon is a mutual friend, and he is engaged to my best friend's little sister (who had just left for Belgium for a year). To me he is not even male--he is Brandon. Never bugged my boyfriend for an instant, because before he left and as soon as he came back we still had Brandon over night and day (yes, he's one of _those_ friends). And when his fiance left, she said "You'd better not spend too much time with girls...except Tiffany." I can't think of any male friends I have that are not also friends--or at least on friendly terms--with my boyfriend. And most of his female friends were MY friends first.

My point is, with you being married, I don't understand how someone new could become such a big part of his life without you meeting and knowing her as well. It isn't fair for him to expect you to go flying with them to get to know her. It also strikes me as odd that this very secluded activity is the only thing they do together. Why can't you go on a double date, or at the very least to dinner together after they fly? To me, her having a boyfriend is little consolation to you, because her boyfriend is not sitting at home alone late at night wondering where she is. I imagine you know many of his guy friends; it just strikes me as very odd that you don't also know his one female friend.

Then again...I seem to remember the time and dedication he put into making a barn for your little guy, and it sheds a very positive light on his appreciation for your own interests. Perhaps you can compromise? Maybe he could agree to only do short flights, or to try doing something all together before or after flights? And I agree with the other member that suggested you get your own hobby--if you're out having fun, you won't have the time to worry!


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## minih (Sep 28, 2007)

Yes, I do believe men and women can be very close friends.... I have several and have always had male friends. BUT, and a very big one, if you are questioning this friendship apparently something has not come across to you as "right", there is probably good reason behind it. Only you know your feelings, and you can not change how you feel. He should respect you and try to make it not such an emotional roller coaster for you.


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## SunQuest (Sep 28, 2007)

Danielle_E. said:


> I am absolutely floored at how many of you have the opinion that women and men and vice versa are unable to be good friends (close friends) without it turning into something else. I am also glad that my husband has never told me what I can do and can't do, because he knows darn well that wouldn't work with me and neither would I ever dream of telling him he can't pursue his passions in life even though I might not be interested at all in his passions and he in mine. I am lucky he feels secure enough in himself and our relationship not to go looking for things that just aren't there and I feel secure enough in letting him follow what he likes to do. After 30 + years of marriage if the trust is not there it never will be. I guess as you get older you learn not to sweat the small stuff unless you have absolute proof it's not small stuff.


Let me say this much.... While I haven't been married for 30 years, I have been married for just about 20 years and all was well until last year. Total trust between the two of us. In fact, I would spend time every weekend for hours on end with my family and often come home after midnight with him in bed. And my hubby would do as he pleased and leave early in the morning to do his car things. (He is a morning person, I am a night owl.) And we made sure to at least spend part of the day together as well.

Now last year threw a big wrench in the works. I had surgery, his father figure was diagnosed with a terminal illness, and his real father... well... lets just say that it is a VERY bad relationship and things happened to make it even worse. So started his downward spiral into his "midlife crisis" as I call it.

Trust was destroyed by my hubby, Not the other woman who was "just freinds", but by my hubby's own actions. I will never forget the hurt he caused me, the lack of trust I now have, and the way I will NEVER be able to fully trust him in the same blind way again. At least that is how I feel at this moment. Let me just say that it didn't "go all the way" as was supported by the evidence in the love letters, yet by the love letters and his own actions, he could not let her go either. And even now I know darned well that if she called him he would say that it is nothing and that she is just showing she cares. I could just spew my guts over this. It makes me so physically ill to think of it and where this whole thing went. Lets just say that if he ever calls me "Sweetheart" again that I won't be responsible for what my mouth will say. After all, he had been calling me that for almost 20 years on special occasions, and for him to say that to someone else who is "just a freind"..........

Relationships like was being asked about by Maplegum will go one of two was. It stays just freinds or it can turn into something more. 50/50 chance.... If their has been trust all along and never any thoughts of infedelity and then all the sudden that thought is there, there is a reason for this. Listen to it. The fact that Maplegum is asking makes my hair stand on end. Sorry, but she should follow up on it. Yes, I have VERY good reason to suspect. After all, my hubby would "never" have done this to me!!!!!!!

Glad that you can trust your man. I thought I could trust mine too...........................


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## rockin r (Sep 28, 2007)

maplegum said:


> Thank you everyone. I really am so confused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




HUH!!! WHAT!!!! EMAILS>PHONE CALLS> TO "YOUR HOME" Oh NO NO NO NO!

Now she has invaded "YOUR " space... And he has let her! I also ended a 27 yr marriage because of this same thing....I got the "Meet Her, its all in YOUR "head" speech too. Well it was'nt! I did meet her and it cramped "their" style, after a while I was not invited to hang out with the gang. He should of told her "Sorry I am married" but thanks for the offer. Pay Attention to this... nothing good will come from it! Total disrespect to you.... My husband DID marry the "Other Women" 6 months after we were divorced. And it is a marriage from heck. I was totally devistated, he took everything, did not even leave me with a fork! Finally, last year he said he was sorry for what he had put me thru, If only "I" would have started going with him on his Harley we would still be married..DROP DEAD FRED!!!!! I had waited 9 years to slap the #@!&* out of him, and I finally did! There is a line in a marriage, and it is not even a fine line, he has crossed it.



Danielle_E. said:


> I am absolutely floored at how many of you have the opinion that women and men and vice versa are unable to be good friends (close friends) without it turning into something else. I am also glad that my husband has never told me what I can do and can't do, because he knows darn well that wouldn't work with me and neither would I ever dream of telling him he can't pursue his passions in life even though I might not be interested at all in his passions and he in mine. I am lucky he feels secure enough in himself and our relationship not to go looking for things that just aren't there and I feel secure enough in letting him follow what he likes to do. After 30 + years of marriage if the trust is not there it never will be. I guess as you get older you learn not to sweat the small stuff unless you have absolute proof it's not small stuff.



I did not tell my ex what he could or could not do, never did.... I hear alot of hurt in these posts :no: I now have a wonderful husband Art that never was married till he married me. He was 42 when we married. His Mother told me "He has waited his whole life for you"! Trust him??? You bet I do! But the hurt of the first marriage and the scaring is still there...Consider yourself lucky... And don't anyone throw rocks at glass houses, as we All live in one.....


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## Sonya (Sep 28, 2007)

wanted to add...I too have never ever had to tell my husband of 12 yrs "no you can't" when it came to anything...and he has never had to tell me no, simply because I would never even consider doing anything that would raise suspicion or hurt his feelings....I do have male friends from work and he has female friends at work...do we talk or do things with them outside of work...absolutely but it's done as a group or couple.

and remember....affairs of the heart are no different than physical affairs! If anything...they are worse!


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## Shari (Sep 28, 2007)

Wasn't sure I was going to respond to this...but I did show my hubby.

Only once in my whole life did I have a male friend... only reason I was not worried about him..nor my husband, is he was Gay and happily married to another Man.

DH says.. men and women can't just be friends.....he has never seen it in his life. And this is coming from a Man.

He says if a man is spending time with another women ...that man has something in mind be he married or not.

Am lucky that we trust each other and can talk openly about things. We are very much like Sonya.

Both of us find it important to do things as a family because that is what we are.

Neither of us would ever do anything, that the other would ever question and I think that is very important.

My sister was not so lucky. To keep it short ...she found out her D*H was going out and sleeping with other women, he lied about it among other things. She also found out that he had children from other women..after she did some digging. It was a horrible,, horrible divorce....

He either doesn't work,,,or works under the table so he doesn't have to pay for child support.

Took 5 years to get clear from him.

Am very sorry you are going through what you are. I can't offer advise, other than maybe to see if your DH will go to a marriage councilor.


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## SunQuest (Sep 28, 2007)

Sonya said:


> wanted to add...I too have never ever had to tell my husband of 12 yrs "no you can't" when it came to anything...and he has never had to tell me no, simply because I would never even consider doing anything that would raise suspicion or hurt his feelings....I do have male friends from work and he has female friends at work...do we talk or do things with them outside of work...absolutely but it's done as a group or couple.
> 
> and remember....affairs of the heart are no different than physical affairs! If anything...they are worse!


You are so right Sonya. I think I could handle a one night stand easier than the fact that he said he loved her. It will be a scar forever on my heart.

And like you, I have NEVER told my husband what he could do or whom he could see. That is until this "other" invaded our life. It was me or her. No third wheels allowed in my marriage!!! Yep, the anger and hurt still burns.

And after this, I definately changed my mind on how I perceived this issue. At one time I would have been open minded to the idea that men and women could be just freinds. Now I say NO WAY is it apropriet for a marriage unless the two freinds are married to each other!


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## StellaLenoir (Sep 28, 2007)

I hope that all is well for you and your husband is innocent. He may be truely just friends with this woman, but she may have other ideas too. I think people assume the man is the one with cheating ideas, but I know too many women that seem turned on by the idea of a married man. They seek them out and start out as friends, but they flirt or tease and try to get the man to cheat. It is like an extra bonus for them. i would meet this woman, get a feel for her yourself. You may find that you are over reacting or are being jealous or you may find you do have something to fear.

I have been insanely jealous on more than one occasion. Before my husband and I were officialy together, he very casualy dated a horible woman. She was a stripper with BIG fake boobs. We all went out one night and she showed everyone these boobs. It was so stupid, I said if he picks her, than I dont need him! After a few weeks, he relized she was kind of a gross person and he never spoke to her again. This was years and 2 kids ago. But at the time I was crazy! I still feel the little green monster when I think about her.

Now, right before my 2nd baby was born, I was insanely mad that he went to Coyoty Ugly. All I pictured was perfect women dancing around, and here I was fat and stretched out and hugely preggo. I could not handle it. That is jealousy. As I felt better about myself my jealousy let up. But it is different than what I think you are describing.

i asked my hubby too about the 12 hours, that seems weird, and coming home at midnight after being with a woman, is weird too.

As far as him wanting you two to meet. my sisters ex (thank God hes an EX) brought his women home so my sister *would* feel ok about them. But he slept with them all. It took her years to face reality that her husband would do that to her. They had been together since 7th grade. Not saying your husband is doing that but be carefull.

This is so hard, to walk the fine line of trusting someone, and still being comfortable in your relationship. I agree with the others that said, he should put you first, if his freindship is causing you such heart ache, it should not be worth it to him to stay such close friends with her. You should be more important. And I saw your picture on the topic Jill made I think a few weeks back, and YOU are BEAUTIFULL!!!




:


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## just2minis (Sep 28, 2007)

I would say in your situation since you are not happy with the situation and he is continuing to "go flying" with her there is definately a problem !! Tell him to find another guy to go with.

If it was my husband - NO WAY !!


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## maplegum (Sep 28, 2007)

I never imagined that this topic would cause such raw emotions in people. I'm very sorry to the people on this thread who have had to re-live the torture of infidelity. I woke up this morning to 7 pages of replies! It's a hot topic and I'm so thankful to all of my forum friends who replied.

Someone mentioned that they remember my husband building that sweet little barn for Bailey and supporting me in my new found hobby and interest. He gave up his plans to build a big garage/workshop, just so I could follow my own passions. All the money for his workshop went into fixing the property for my horse. So yes, my husband is supportive and NEVER questions my decisions or stops me following my dreams. BUT - the difference is, I don't choose to spend my hobby time with other men! I am a 'family girl' and nothing makes me happier being with the kids and hubby. I don't even give other men a thought! I simply would not make those choices that he has. He has already turned down another 2 flights with her as he knew the fights would start again at home, which leaves me feeling terrible and guilty.

I also feel guilty as my husband is Canadian and I'm Australian. He moved his entire life across to the other side of the world to be with me and to help raise my 2 children! He moved his life over in 2 suitcases....for me!! He left behind all his family and friends and had to make new friends all over again, which can be hard when you are in your 40's. This is what he keeps pointing out. That's one of the reasons, a very BIG reason that I feel so bad for putting up a fight. He's been here for 4 years and for the most part, we have been very happy.

I think I will make the effort to meet this girl. Have her over for dinner one night. I am sure that I will get a 'feeling' for the kind of person she is once I meet her. It's not that I don't trust my hubby, I just don't feel good about this situation. I don't get the feeling anything is going on, BUT- it opens the door to temptation.

I am still as confused as ever, and yes, I am a jealous person, with my own fair share of insecurities so it doesn't help. I'm going to try to be very brave through this one.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 28, 2007)

> DH says.. men and women can't just be friends.....he has never seen it in his life. And this is coming from a Man.He says if a man is spending time with another women ...that man has something in mind be he married or not.


That is absolutely not true, sorry. As I have previously said a very close friend of mine is male, I probably spent 12 hours days with him and NOTHING was going on except the mutual passion of horses. That was it, that was all. I have more than one male friend, mind you not as close as the other but when I read statements like that I think "what the heck???"

When or if someone strays in a marriage there is usually something else going on in that marriage, the affair or whatever you want to call it is usually a product of something much deeper. Someone who is happy in their marriage and in love with their partner doesn't just wake up one day and say "hey, I think I will have an affair today". For those of you who have gone through divorces, seperations, etc. I am truly sorry for the pain you have felt but projecting your fears and hurt on the situation we are trying to help out on in here...that's not fair to the poster. I would suggest that she ask her husband if he would be willing to seek a professional in this, explaining how it is making her feel, how she is having all these thoughts of him having an affair, etc. Getting advice from people who have been hurt badly in their marriages will just conjure up all kinds of thoughts at this point which may well not be founded in anything factual and that in itself could cause the end of the marriage without anything having ever happened between her husband and this other woman. All I am saying is you need help in dealing with your anger, your jealousy and your husband needs to face what this is doing to you and TOGETHER you need to come to a willing solution. If he is not willing, then I think you have your answer and it's time to find a lawyer.

The other thing I find interesting in some of these posts is that many of you or maybe this is my perception and correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that you think you "own" the other person, that you can tell that person, well you can have this friend but not this one because it is a female or a male, whatever the case may be. I find that very "controlling" and nobody has the right to "control" another person to that extent because of THEIR insecurities without concrete foundation for taking that stand. I guess my point of view stems way back to when I was a teenager and was going out with this guy who was so jealous it was ridiculous and who tried to control me. It was a very destructive relationship and one thank God I got out of. It's not healthy in a marriage either.


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## SWA (Sep 28, 2007)

I wasn't going to respond mainly because so many already have, but here goes anyways...



:

I can sort of understand both sides of this fence...yet to a degree that is. First, yes, I do believe that men and women can truly be JUST friends. I had a friendship with a guy that I grew up with, all through middle school and high school we were best buddies. Having 5 brothers, I always seemed to "relate" better with guys than I did with girls. To this day, I am always most comfortable hanging out with the "guys" in my life than I am with the girls, including my own mom and sister, who I love with all my heart and have a wonderful relationship with both. Yet, I feel more open and in my "comfort zone" when I'm around my hubby, my dad, all my brothers and any "guy" friends. I guess, from growing up with so many brothers, all the guys I grew up with always knew one brother or the other, and were always very respectful of me, some out of mutual respect and yes, some out of their fear of my FIVE brothers.



: (Needless to say, I never had a "real" date till AFTER high school  ). Most the girls I grew up with, well, it always came to the point that their only motive for being "friends" with "me" was in their hopes of getting a date with any of my brothers



: so there really was never any "real" forms of female friendship throughout my teen years. Many "acquaintances", but nothing really notable as far as genuine female friendship perse'. My sister is 11 years younger than me, so in growing up we never really had much in common to bond with until much later in life after we've both become adults with families of our own, etc. Through that, we've long since bonded much closer now, and I'm thankful for that, as she's about the closest female friend I really have, even now, and I love her to pieces for that.



:

Anywas, back to gender relationships involving marriage and the "just friends" thing... My first marriage was a total fiasco. My one male friend that "I" had sinch childhood, was to both of us, nothing more than and nothing short of a brother/sister relationship. Our mutual ground was our love of horses and cows. We showed our steers toghether all through our FFA years in High School, and went horseback riding together often when we were kids growing up. BUT, then we did grow up and each to our own relationships. I was the first between us to get married, like a doofus, I married the very first guy I had a "real" date with right out of high school...we met through one of my brothers no less.



: Shortly there after, Glen also found a really great gal and they too got married. Neither of us would have ever even THOUGHT of going out and spending time with each other without either of our significant others right there along with us, let alone having actually gone anywhere. My "then" husband knew that, and so did Glen's wife.



:

My "then" husband, on the other hand, around the 3rd year of our marriage began developing newfound friendships along the way. Being the gullable trusting BLOOMING IDIOT that "I" was, I always thought nothing of it, being that I totally understood, or so I thought, because of my friendship with Glen. Little did I know...these "friendships" ALL FOUR OF THEM...(at least the 4 that I became aware of after the fact) were all little "side shows" as I call them of my THEN hubby. Each "thinking" THEY were the ONLY little "side show" of his beyond his wife, (that would be "me") they all knew full well of the "wife", but NOT "the others". Well, as THEY all became aware of one another, they each one by one, had the AUDACITY to come to me, for which I am thankful, strange as that is, and wanted to be FRIENDS with ME because THEY understood now, how "I" must have felt being the "wife" and all.



:

I told all of them, thank you very much for coming forward and telling me of YOUR little "side show", but NO THANK YOU for your "kind offer"



: of "friendship". Of course, I told them in a much more "colorful" manner... immediately followed by filing for DIVORCE!

Had it been just ONE...perhaps MAYBE I would have been STUPID enough to give him the benefit of the doubt in thinking it would never happen again, but with 4, and those were just the ones that had the guts to come forward, and I have no doubt in my mind nor heart that there were likely others. Because of that...I was pretty much DONE with THAT!!!!

Anyway... two months after my divorce I met my "now" hubby, Lee, and we married 4 months after that, and we just celebrated our 19th wedding anniversary earlier this month. He knows that he IS my "unanswered prayer", and I thank GOD every day for knowing what was to be for me and my son. My son is the ONLY part of that whole fiasco that was the blessing of it all. Then came much better for both of us. PRAISE GOD!

My friendship with Glen, to this day, still stands, but haven't actually seen him in years. He's called intermittently to tell me how he and his family are doing, and we have our 25th High School reunion next summer, and we cannot wait to see each other again. Hubby knows of him, the first few years of our marriage, Glen was very much a part of our family and often he and hubby would go off and do "guy" stuff, same as my other 5 brothers, but he since moved out of state, as did we, and we just keep in touch by phone now, if at all. But, I value his friendship dearly, and hubby is understanding of that, but NEVER would I have a notion to go off and spend time with him, without my hubby or his wife right there WITH us the WHOLE time. Thankfully, my "now" hubby does not do this either, at least not to my knowledge. Usually, if either of us do ANYTHING seperately, it's with my brothers or his.

He IS my best friend and the love of my life, and I can only hope and pray that I am his, no one else even factors in.

Just wanted to share my experience, and let you know that I hold you in prayers, and just pray that your hubby will take this newfound friendship of his into consideration of what it might really be...and I pray that he chooses MARRIAGE over FRIENDSHIP, and realizes that even though personal interests in life may differ, the Marriage and Friendship thing, should really be one in the same. Lord willing.

HUGS to you, and prayers lifted.



:


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 28, 2007)

Wow. I don't think I'm cut out for this marriage business.



:

Best of luck to you and your hubby.


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## Sonya (Sep 28, 2007)

Marriage is not about control...it's about respect...I have been fortunate to never have had to tell my husband "no" about something like this, but if the situation arised you bet your sweet cheeks I would...however, this has already happened to her and yes, she has a right to say no I don't want you going it upsets me and if he still goes, it certainly doesn't say much about how he feels about her feelings. It sounds like he is already realizing that his decisions have not been the best for the marriage (the marriage- number one thing here) and is starting to back off with the friendship already...as he should!

It is a hot subject...I know many people who've been hurt very badly by these situations..both men and women and children....


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## just2minis (Sep 28, 2007)

You should not have to feel guilty. He moved to be with you, so what. He did that because he loves you.

This is an entirely different situation involving another woman. You have a right to be jealous.

It's your feelings we are talking about and your hubby should respect them.


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## TriggynBluenDaisy Too (Sep 28, 2007)

I too have had and will continue to have many male friends in my life. I used to work in a male-dominated profession and found many of the male friends I still have to this day at that time. However spending 8 hours plus per day with them at work was more than enough. Any time after my workday was reserved for my husband and family, not to dump them so I could go out and socialize with my “buddies” some more and the ones that obviously had more than friendship in mind were given the boot long ago. I’d never keep a threat to my spouse in my life and I don’t know what some fools are thinking when they do. Maybe just an immature ego craving attention, perhaps? While hubby and I have none of the same obsessions, we do have things we like to do together despite our differences.

My husband also has many female friends with the same interests but they sure as heck do not pal around together, nor do I spend time alone with my male friends. We don’t feel the need. We easily could though, my hubby trusts me completely and I him but I wouldn’t want anyone for a moment to perceive that something could be going on. If you respect your spouse, and he you, then you both are not only considerate of each other’s feelings but also the possible fall out that your actions might bring upon the other inadvertently. It's called LOVE and that is what real marriages are made from. Few really seem understand that concept anymore, it seems to be all about themselves, what they want and what they want to do. To heck with how the other feels about it. :no:

I also think it has a lot to do with personality. If having a female friend is a new behavior for your husband you DO have reason to be suspicious and concerned. It may be completely innocent but the perception is there no matter how hard some try to dismiss it. However, if it was part of his normal nature to befriend those of the opposite sex, common interests or not, then it could be just your own personal insecurities coming out. Unfortunately, many women tend to dismiss, or let others dismiss the red flags or their intuition for them, about a situation. Nine times out of 10 gut instincts are correct and it’s when we go against them for whatever reason is what sets us up for the fall. Trust your instincts regardless the advice one way or the other here. Only you are experiencing the entire picture. You'd have a sure bet though if this were my husband we’d be having a very long talk about this very soon.



:


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## Girrawheen (Sep 28, 2007)

I just have to add something here.

Danielle E you may be a exception to the rule in this situation. It sounds like you have a totally innocent relationship with your male friend. That is great.

I still firmly believe that when a married man/woman is seeking the company of the opposite sex it is fishy! Warning bells would also be sounding if my husband told me I was "insecure", and was not prepared to end the friendship knowing it was hurting me!

I also believe a little jealousy is healthy in a relationship. There is also a huge difference in being controlling and caring about your marriage.

Meeting the "other woman" is just a huge kick in the face as far as I am concerned, and why should Maplegum even have to meet her! :no:

If you want to have friends of the opposite sex (when your significant other finds it offensive) then don't get married! Marriage is about respect & commitment to each other. I guarantee that at least one of the "friendships" mentioned in this post has one party that is interesred in the other. Danielle E you truly may not be "interested" in your male friend in that way, but is he interested in you??????



:

I believe there is usually a ulterior motive behind such friendships.

I would also be very interested to know if Maplegum's husband would take her up on the offer to meet this "other woman" anyway! Is he just offering this to her to put her mind at rest? That would be a test in itself!


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Sep 28, 2007)

alongman said:


> Who wrote the rules on friends? Since when can men and women not have a friendship without having anything more than common interests? Not every man finds every woman attractive - nor does every woman find every man to be "the one". Maybe they DO have just a friendship. You said you didn't enjoy flying and he obviously does - maybe he doesn't see her as a "woman" but rather a friend who enjoys to do something similar so he doesn't have to go alone. I'm not saying communication isn't key, but rather than accuse, how about find out everything. It seems he hasn't tried to "hide" anything and in fact has encouraged you to meet his friend. Why not take him up on it? Maybe you'll find that she is just, indeed, a friend.
> 
> Also, maybe he's just as jealous of you and your friends.


I have to say I agree with Adam here... not every person of the opposite sex is someone I want to have sex with



: Yet I can enjoy spending time with them, talking about horses or laughing or whatever

I find the harder you hold on to a relationship the quicker it tends to end and really .. if he is going to cheat on you TRUST ME he doesnt need the excuse of a friend to do it.

If you are that concerned about that (not to be mean) I think there are bigger issues then this woman if he is untrustworthy to keep it in his pants he will find any excuse for that.


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## Charlene (Sep 28, 2007)

what it boils down to is simply respect for your spouse or the lack of it. so he built her a barn and indulged her hobby. big deal. my then-husband spent thousands of dollars on me. passier dressage saddle for x-mas, if i wanted a new horse, i bought a new horse. no questions asked. did i NEED 3 horses? of course not. but, it seemed to be his way of soothing his guilt. he spent a LOT of money on jewelry. i don't wear jewelry and i didn't back then. when i found receipts in his drawer while putting laundry away (how stupid can you be??), i asked what he spent 300$ on at a jewelry store. oh, it was "HER" birthday and he wanted to get her something nice. ah, well, ok. i would do a slow burn and then i'd go out and spend the same amount of money on myself.

he made a six figure income so it wasn't like i was throwing him into debt. quite the contrary, if i wanted it, i got it and i usually got it because HE bought it for me. he bought it for me because whether he wanted to admit it or not, he felt guilty because he was disrespecting our marriage.

six months after our divorce he called me and asked me to come back to him. although he would never admit to physical infidelity, he told me he knew he had hurt me terribly by his actions and he bawled like a baby. i felt nothing. i was alone and i was enjoying life for a change.

within a year of my divorce, i met my now-hubby. we have been together 11 years, every single day has been a joy. not one time in 11 years have we exchanged so much as a sour look. we are soul mates. life without him is unthinkable. so, something really good came out of "that" other situation.



:

maplegum, i wish you the very best. as has been said, follow your gut. you know this man, we do not. if you feel comfortable meeting this woman, go for it. i will say this to you though, no matter what you think you are feeling, you will go into this meeting already resenting her presence in your life so don't expect bells and whistles and finding your long-lost sister. if you can keep an open mind, you have every ounce of my admiration because you are a better woman than i!


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## minisaremighty (Sep 28, 2007)

Danielle_E. said:


> I am absolutely floored at how many of you have the opinion that women and men and vice versa are unable to be good friends (close friends) without it turning into something else.


Seems that a large number of those people you refer to developed their opinions based on personal experience. :no: It's not a cut and dried subject. Some people can, some can't, just depends on the circumstances surrounding the relationship. Enough said.


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## REO (Sep 29, 2007)

maplegum, it seems that him telling you that he turned down two fly dates with her just so there would be no arguments at home, have had the desired effect. That made you feel guilty like you did something wrong (no you have not) Now you're going to try and deny your feelings and go along with it from the guilt trip that was laid on you.

Sorry, but I would have much rather if you had said that he sat down with you and told you how much he loves you and that because he loves you, he won't see her any more. That a new friendship is not worth hurting you over. That he will find a MALE friend to fly with!

The only one compromising is you. The only one putting aside their feelings to please the other is you. The one making it seem like all the strife is coming from you is him.

I have been through many games from guys and men in my life (before this hubby) and I know all the "make her feel it's her fault" BS. I'm NOT saying that that is what your hubby is doing but.....

If you sit with him, look him in the eyes and calmly explain how it makes you feel and why.... and he still turns it around to being "your" hang up instead of understanding and wanting to change things to please you, then I just don't know. Marriage takes two, not one doing all the accepting and bending.

Have you sat with him and talked to him like that? Have you asked him why he can't find a man friend to fly with?

These are my thoughts. I trust my husband but if there was a woman trying to spend time with him when HE and SHE both knew I didn't like it, all crap would break loose!

Just talk to him and I'm sure things will be fine.



:

.


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## capall beag (Sep 29, 2007)

Lots of opinions!

Mine is that YES men and women can be friends BUT it depends on many factors.

I have friends who are male who I knew before I was married. They were friends, never became boyfriends for a reason, :lol: I am not attracted to them. I could spend a week with them and still wouldn't be attracted to them



: .......of course, I am not planning to!

I think you have to trust your spouse. If he wants to cheat on you he can do it anytime, anywhere.

If he is attracted to this friend I do think it is very dangerous to spend too much time in a little plane with her



:



: That definately could be a temptation waiting to happen.

Spending 12 hours with anyone is excessive IMO..even if it was a male friend! Surely he can go flying for a few hours during the day.

Tell your husband how you feel.

I really wouldn't care if my husband spent the day with a female friend. Could he be tempted, sure he could.

I think well enough of him to know that he is good guy with good intentions and a love for his family and that he would make the right choice.

If he didn't I guess je would have proven me wrong!

I am not willing to get all upset about what 'could' happen.............way too much wasted energy!


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## Shari (Sep 29, 2007)

Danielle_E. said:


> > DH says.. men and women can't just be friends.....he has never seen it in his life. And this is coming from a Man.He says if a man is spending time with another women ...that man has something in mind be he married or not.
> 
> 
> That is absolutely not true, sorry. As I have previously said a very close friend of mine is male, I probably spent 12 hours days with him and NOTHING was going on except the mutual passion of horses. That was it, that was all. I have more than one male friend, mind you not as close as the other but when I read statements like that I think "what the heck???"


Maybe for you. But both my Hubby and I have lived all over...seen a lot and he is just going by what he has personally seen.

If you have male friends...good for you.

I have a friend that obcesses about another man that is not her husband and makes me feel very uncomfortable when she keeps talking about it. Her Husband doesn't mind. But that other man's wife does care and doesn't like it and my friend is helping to drive a wedge into that other marriage.

I guess to each their own.

My DH talks with women he works with and I have no worry about it. Neither one of us feel the need to spend time with the other genders.

We do not control each other... but what we do, is deeply respect each other and would never do anything that would cause each to doubt one another. We are a family and act as such because it is the way we are.

So your what the heck....is rather confusing. As I said...and none of this was pointed at you originally... but if you want or have male friends that is your choice. But you have to respect what other people have seen. All my hubby and I can talk about is what we have seen over the years.

As for the original issue.... I would not feel guilty about your DH moving from another country maplegum. My Husband and I are from different worlds.. he grew up in the UK....and I am west/Eastcoast and Canadian...needless to say we both come from many different areas. Both sides of our family live all over the world.

One of my friends was born in Denmark... raised part time in Australia... now lives in the US and has an Irish born husband!



:

Nor should you feel gulity about asking him to spend time with you...you are a family after all.

<hugs> and best of luck to you!


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## susanne (Sep 29, 2007)

Of course men and women can be friends.

What bothers me about your husband's friendship is that If he truly considers this woman a friend, he would want you to like and respect her and would bend over backwards to avoid anything that made you uncomfortable or caused you to think badly of her.

most of my best friends have been male. I told Keith this when we were first dating, and let him know that I do not give up close friends, male or female, for boyfriends. This holds true for husbands as well.

I grew up with 3 brothers and was quite a tomboy, and then have played in bands and various musical ensembles where I was often the only female. I never looked at men as potential dates...I have always viewed them as potential friends/brothers. These friendships are always and have always been based upon mutual respect. It is quite obvious when a man is thinking something other than platonic friendship, and those are not candidates for friendship.

I love my husband beyond all words, and I love my friends dearly. It is of utmost importance to me that my husband and my friends get along, and almost always, my friends become his friends, and vice versa.

Keith would never dream of asking me to give up a friend, and I would never ask it of him, but we are so closely attuned that I would question my choice of a friend if he didn't like one of them. I would assume that he was picking up on something that I somenow had missed.

It would bother me terribly if he did not like one of my friends, or worst of all, if something I did, said or implied made him not like one of them.

Love, friendship, and marriage are all about respect, integrity and conerns for the feelings of others. He is not being a great husband OR a great friend with his actions.


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## maplegum (Sep 30, 2007)

alongman said:


> So you dislike his activity - you mentioned it to him. Hypothetically, then, if you expect him to drop his flying habit since you dislike it, are you then willing to walk away from something he dislikes. There are a lot of men showing horses these days - be careful what you wish for. If he DOES give up flying and then asks you to stop with the horses, be prepared to send them packing. It is INDEED a two way street.



I think we are talking about two completely different issues here.

My love of horses never compromises my marriage. There is NO other man involved. I don't show, I only have a backyard pet. If he felt uncomfortable with me being out with another male, I sure as heck would put a stop to it. My husband is my 1st priority but it seems that I am not his.

What bothers me most is his lack of compassion and understanding for the way I feel. It's like I don't have any say in the matter. If he stops seeing her, it will be at the expense of our marriage. It will always be held against me and bought up in conversation time and time again, almost rubbing my face in it.


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## HGFarm (Oct 1, 2007)

Interesting reaction by him about it..... I wouldnt ask him to give up flying. Just flying with her. Sounds like he is awfully defensive and good at making you the guilty party in all things. When you feel bad and guilty, it lets him off the hook. And also is supposed to make you feel badly about questioning his motives. Hmmmmmm


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 1, 2007)

Girrawheen said:


> I just have to add something here.
> 
> Danielle E you may be a exception to the rule in this situation. It sounds like you have a totally innocent relationship with your male friend. That is great.
> 
> ...


:new_rofl: If you knew my male friend, you wouldn't be saying what you said above about him being interested in me. This is a guy that has been through two divorces, is NOT interested in any of that and certainly not with me. He knows my husband very well, my kids have known him for MANY years, he helped my daughter when we first got into horses, he has been my mentor with horses for many many years...he is a great guy, good FRIEND, if he ever needed help with anything I would be there in a heartbeat. I truly don't understand this mentality of many of you that you automatically jump to the conclusion that it's not possible to have a great and good friend of the opposite sex without anything happening past the "friendship". If someone is heck bent on cheating on their spouse, for whatever reason, they more than likely are not open about it at all to their spouse, they hide all of it. It the guy or gal who routinely stays at work late and has lame excuses, perhaps extends business trips routinely, spends much more time away from home without a valid reason, etc. etc.

I guess I am very lucky that the relationship that I have with my husband, we both feel secure in. It certainly is not to say it's the perfect marriage, we have had our difficult times, but this particular issue has never been part of that. My husband is a golfer, or was for many years and he use to golf 3 or 4 times a week which at first really ticked me off. He would golf with male friends and female friends but I hated the sport. I tried it but I did not have patience with myself for the game. So why torture myself, lol. He would golf and I would do the horse thing. Why would I make him miserable by complaining to him and telling him, no you can't go golfing with your buddies (male or female), why? As I said if a person is heck bent on straying in a marriage they are going to do it no matter what the other does. By listening to the original poster here and her story that her husband moved to Australia and everything else, I would say he loves his wife VERY much and that there is absolutely nothing going on except for his passion for flying. She can either make herself sick over this, imagining all kinds of things are going on, or she can perhaps have the other woman over with her boyfriend and bring it all out in the open.

If I recall in a previous post it was mentioned that he use to have his pilot's licence but it expired and it was mentioned that the expense to renew, etc. is just not feasible at this time. With that information do you not think that perhaps this is the only opportunity he has at the moment to pursue his passion for flying and nothing else is going on, except him wanting to be able to fly? Being able to renew his license or finding a male individual who would be willing to take him flying would solve the problem.


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## maplegum (Oct 1, 2007)

Danielle_E. said:


> Girrawheen said:
> 
> 
> > I just have to add something here.
> ...



If it was only that easy Danielle! Finding a male friend, to take him flying all day long, free of charge! I'd pay someone to organise that so I didn't have this situation to deal with.

I can see both sides of the fence here, I really can. Like I stated, I don't get the feeling that he is being unfaithful, but I do get an overwhelming messed up feeling in my tummy when they go off flying together. I guess it's jealousy hey? I hate flying so I can't even go along with them even though he has offered.

I guess I should move past my insecurities but I struggle knowing how to do it. It's not a situation I have ever dealt with, even in my previous marriage. It's all foreign to me.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 1, 2007)

I truly am sorry that you are feeling like this. Can I perhaps make a suggestion. I know that financially you mentioned that at this time, that getting a renewal on the license and all the costs involved on top of that is just not feasible. I know what the cost is because my eldest son wanted to be a pilot and when he was 18 years old he use to go flying quite a bit and the cost was unreal. Since you do not like to fly at all and can't take your husband up on the offer to accompany them, how about going out as a group after they have returned from flying? It might help the 12 hour stints you talked about, would keep it to something more reasonable. You could as a group (your husband, youself, the boyfriend and his girlfriend) go out for a movie, or bowling, dinner, etc. Can I ask how many times a week they go flying? Is it a weekly thing or is once or twice a month? Men just don't think the same way we do, you know the book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". It's not excusing this behaviour but I truly think your husband doesn't get it, the way you are feeling. Oh he hears you but he just doesn't understand because he sees no harm obviously.

I have read most of the post regarding my comments and I think I will refrain from commenting any further because I am getting the impression from some of the replies to what I have said, I see alot of anger towards what I am saying, alot of anger from women that have gone through betrayals by their spouses and I feel like that anger is being projected on me because of my statements about my friendship with a male, the way my marriage is, etc. I guess i am very lucky to have the spouse I have and I guess our personalities just match well when it comes to this topic about having friends of the opposite sex. I am sorry to the women that have been taken advantage of by their spouses in similar situation but there is another side to this coin, but your anger is still quite prevalent towards the spouse that was unfaithful to you and I am sorry about that but please direct your anger where it should be, not towards me.


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## Sonya (Oct 1, 2007)

Cost really isn't the issue here: there are organizations he can join to "share" a plane with many people....(at least here in the U.S.)...the cost is substaintly lower than going out and "renting" one on your own.

It doesn't matter that he built her a cute little barn or moved to another country for her, that has nothing to do with this situation, that's how spouses are suppose to be! I still stick to my guns that if she is uncomfortable with it, there is no need for him to stay out to midnight for 12 hrs flying around (with anyone...be it man or woman), and he should respect her feelings, bottom of the line, and not rub it in her face either.

Danielle's situation may not be the norm, but if her husband were to become weary of her relationship with her male friend suddenly, would she stop seeing him so much, etc??? Or would you let the marriage suffer ???

That is the real question here...it is affecting her marriage in a very negative way...what's more important (regardless if he's totally innocent or not)...his marriage or his friendship?

I wish the very best for you maplegum, I can see by your posts that this relationship he has with this woman is ripping you apart and that's just not right!


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## ~Palomino~ (Nov 19, 2007)

Crap didn't mean to post on this sorry!


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## Jesper (Nov 19, 2007)

Hmm I am most likely gonna get stomped on *shrug* but it does sound very "american" to me with this problem, I have many "girl" friends, always had, it kinda comes with the horseworld. If my wife/girlfriend ever told me I can't go riding with those friends because she is jealous, then she better find another place to live since she can't accept that I don't fly around her 24/7.

It is a good thing to have interests of your own, even if your partner in life doesn't share that interest, you don't like flying, but do you want to take one of his passions away from him? What if he tells you to give up horses if you ask him to give up flying, would you do it?

Friends are special, you don't just say you don't like people because your partner don't want to see them because he/she is jealous, friendship just happens because there are connections, noone says those connections are se-ual, don't see things that aren't there. Should he be in love with this woman, then he should be man enough to tell you and decide if he wants you or her and then move on down the road he chose, if he wants a se-ual relationship with this woman, then you can not stop it, he can just find another way, you just have to prove it, if you can't prove it, then it is most likely only in your head.

If you tie him down and forbid him to go flying then he will most likely break free and you will only be off as the loser.

This is only written to what I could read out of your post, I don't know how long he had this "flying passion" and so on. The new underwear trick, hmm doubt it work, heck I should have new "girl friends" of that kind every three months or so if that was true.

Again this is my opinion and how my life work, and I have many friends of either side, I was even "rescued" my a "girl friend" one of my times in the states, pure friendship there nothing else, doubt her hubby ever thought so either, and I would say he and I got a long pretty well and I miss em both greatly.

Jesper

EDIT: Hmm talking about being uncomfortable about what your partner does, so does that only work if it is a hobby/passion your partner has? What if your partners job makes you uncomfortable, should they quit it too and work with something different so you feel better? (Could be fire fighters, police officers, or even people in the army or other military related jobs, or other dangerous jobs) Don't you think the partners of those feel uncomfortable about it? Where does we draw the line on insane jealousy and acceptance of your partners way of life?

To live a full life you need to do what feels right for you, you branch out and do many things you love here in life, how would you feel if someone came and cut off most or all of those brances off because it didn't fit in their idea of how your life together should be? Do you think you would want to stay there forever or would you move on in your life and get to where you could spread out your branches again and fully enjoy life?


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## misfitminis (Nov 19, 2007)

Women are snakes and men are men. When my husband and I first started to date he had a lot of female and male friends. They all acted like he was never suppose to settle down. He is very nice and a good listener. Women love men that listen. When were first dating women and men would call and talk to him about all kinds of problems. I received a lot of jealous garbage from the women mostl because I was taking up his time. The funny thing is they are no longer a major part of his life they have never been very friendly to me. His sister included. He really learned the true colors of some of these so called friends. Now that we have one child and are expecting another the comments we get are, "oh we just can't believe you're having children -never thought we would see the day, ever." I felt like we had to make it clear that it wasn't a mistake and that we planned to have children. Early in our relationship I would point out the jealous garbage to him and he would look past it and tell me that I was insecure. Then after a while he realized they were just being mean. He doesn't read people as well as I do. He calls me a pessimist. Well so far I've been right on a lot of people and he hates to admit it. Now he listens to me more and is more cautious with people. Women will take the niceness of men and turn it into something else. My opinion call the vet make a gelding appointment. Just kidding. I would met her and get a good feel for her. Tell her that you don't like it that they go flying for so long. Ask her point blank what her intentions are with spending that time with your husband. Tell her that you find it odd and that in this day and age you find it best to suspect the worst and hope for the best. That could send her on her way right there. Make sure you appear confident and nice. Women don't know how to handle nice.


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## Danielle_E. (Nov 19, 2007)

Jesper, I agree with you totally. If you forbid your spouse's "passion" in life, whether it be "flying" in this instance, or "horses" or whatever, you will end up with an unhappy spouse, JMHO. You have to "trust" that spouse and yes that can be difficult when the green eyed monster comes into play. I guess you have to be secure enough in yourself as a person. I look at marriage as a "sharing" of two seperate individuals with more than likely some similaries but MANY differences. You know the saying "opposites attract" and that does happen more than not and what makes a marriage "interesting".

I was saying in this instance that perhaps changing the "partner" that he was flying with would solve the problem but unfortunately I know how expensive flying can be and I believe the poster said at this time it was not feasible to change the circumstances without removing the possibility of flying all together. I hope you have been able to meet the husband's friend and her boyfriend and perhaps spent some time with both to make you feel more comfortable. I would have let both of them (woman and her boyfriend) know how I feel, just to bring it out in the open and see what they say, especially the boyfriend. Perhaps he feels the same way you do about having his girlfriend with your husband and perhaps both of them will see that it makes things uncomfortable for you and him and will go out flying less than they were. It's worth a try and might just keep everyone happy and nobody has to give up their passion totally.

Is their a bulletin board or some place where you husband could post an ad asking for a flying partner, male, willing to share expenses, or something like that?


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## HGFarm (Nov 19, 2007)

Just cant help but wonder how her husband would like it if she had a male friend that she constantly went off to horse shows with.... and was gone for hours and hours.........


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## maplegum (Nov 19, 2007)

OK, update everyone.





Some of you will be pleased to know that I am going to put all of my fears and anxiety aside as he is going flying tomorrow.

He did 'ask' me if I would be OK with it and I have come to realise that life is too short to be so worried all the time. I actually feel good within myself for being strong enough to let him follow his passion without the pressure from me. We made a deal that it would not be an all day ordeal and that he would be home well before midnight! Compromise.





At the end of the day, he is a very good man and I am crazy in love with him. I just have to put my own insecurities aside and let him enjoy his passion. He has a heart of gold. I mean, look what he just did. He surprised me by buying Willow, Bailey's sister for me.





He loves me dearly. I guess if someone wants to have an affair, they will do it. Tightening the reins won't stop it happening. I have lightened up a bit and feel so good about it.





Also, I have been thinking so much about Charlene and her poor husbands battle with his illness. It bought some light to my situation and made me understand how precious life is and how easy it is to take life for granted.


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## Marty (Nov 19, 2007)

Disengage the auto-pilot


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## Charlene (Nov 19, 2007)

OMG marty!!! that was the ONLY time i have laughed today. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MG, i am glad you have come to terms with this whole thing. i would not wish my situation on my worst enemy but if it has made you or anyone else realize the value of life and love, i'm glad i could share it with you.

charlene


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