# Turnout Critique



## jleonard (Feb 4, 2011)

My new pony cart arrived yesterday and I have been wanting to see how it would look with the outfit I had put together last year. Since we've had several discussions about turnout dos and don'ts I thought I would offer myself up for critique as a possible learning exercise. (Sorry she's not a mini, but thought it might be nice to pick apart another turnout, practice makes perfect, and I need lost of it!




)

The cart is dark hunter green with creme pin strips and it is for a gray pony. The jacket does have a tealish green stripe running through it, I had hoped the cart would pull that out, but I'm not sure it has the effect I had hoped. The scarf has the same color in it as well.











And here is the pony it goes with






And the same turnout with my black mini EE at the National Drive in 2009






(Photo credit Larry Porter)


----------



## Minxiesmom (Feb 4, 2011)

OK, I know Myrna is the expert, but I want to try my hand at this and see what you and she think. But first of all, I want to tell you how beautiful you look and what nice equipment and horses you have. This is purely an exercise in learning for all of us.

Starting with the hat: You have such a sweet little face, I feel the hat is a little to old/frumpy for you. Maybe turning up the back brim or maybe the side, trying to make it a little more sassy! A smaller brim might work. I also feel it is a little "too" purple. I like the purple, but it would feel better toned down, or a little grayer purple when worn with that jacket.

Tying in the cart: I like the look of the scarf, but maybe the pictures aren't depicting the true colors. If they are true colors, I would get a scarf that had lots more of the color of the cart. I would also pull that same green color up into the band of the hat.

I think the purple tones work with the horse, who looks to be a rose grey. I think the same colors apply to the black. Don't get me wrong, I think you look better than many, many people I have seen pictures of! My ideas are just little tweaks to refine the look!

I won't critique the cart or harness, because I think they are very nice. Although, my eye kind of goes to the white spokes...not sure why they would be white? I want all eyes on your horse and you. Also see white metal on the arms and seat of the EE, to me, distracting. I do like the pinstripe on the EE.

Just the ideas of the little ol' hat lady!


----------



## RhineStone (Feb 4, 2011)

You are so cute! (And I hate the word "cute"...



)

The cart looks great! (How does it ride?) I like the coat, and the apron is a good length for you. You might want to consider some sort of contrasting trim along the bottom of the apron to "finish" it. I think it is black and maybe the green of your cart would "tie" them together. Then if you really wanted to get fancy, you could put a small monogram the same color as the trim.

I like the shape of the hat on you, but....out of your whole turnout what do you see most? Your purple hat....mostly because that color isn't anywhere else in the turnout, at least from a distance. In order to tie the hat, I would look for a scarf of the same color. If you found a purple and dark green, it would be perfect, but it would have to have more purple to use the hat.

That being said, if you are just doing CDEs, it wouldn't matter as much as a pleasure show. Presentation is only 10 points, and you have a 9! We tend to see more contrasting hats in CDEs than pleasure shows, like think because a lot of CDE vehicles are plain black and people are introducing some color. (I LOVE the green cart, though! Good selection!)

I like the turnout with both horses. The colors suit them well. Just figure out a way to "tone down" the hat and you are there!

Myrna


----------



## RhineStone (Feb 4, 2011)

Diane picked out some stuff that I didn't. Good job, Diane! No, I am no expert, but I do enjoy Turnout.

I don't think the white on the wheels will be as distracting when that pony grays out.

Getting green in the hat would help tie the hat in, too.

And I agree with Diane about the hat possibly being on the larger size for you. It would look a lot better on you if you gained like maybe 20 lbs.!



(Ok, that was actually complete jealousy, as I have my "winter weight" to contend with right now.....



and haven't seen your size body since I found out my gall bladder was bad and had to cut the fat out. Pain is a really good diet incentive. Boy, I'd like that organ back....)

Myrna


----------



## Sandee (Feb 5, 2011)

For what it's worth, I like the way the purple ties together on the easy entry cart, however on the other cart, unless the colors aren't coming thru true, the hat does stand out and sort of pulls all attention to your head. Is the jacket gray or perhaps does it have a purple tint to it?


----------



## Helicopter (Feb 5, 2011)

Geez Jessica, I think you look absolutely stunning... ABSOLUTELY STUNNING.

So jealous.


----------



## jleonard (Feb 5, 2011)

So it sounds like the consensus is I need to go hat shopping! I will have to look around Derby time, there should be a great selection then. I think I bought this one in Sept/ Oct because I wanted it for the National Drive, not exactly hat season!

You guys brought up some great points! I hadn't thought about the wheel spokes, but I see what you mean when you mention it! I did not know all of the options available when I ordered that cart, so it just came that way. Hopefully as Myrna said it will not be as obvious when she lightens. As for the EE, it was just something a man was making out of his garage and not necessarily intended for show, so I think he was just trying to make it more fun. I agree that they tend to stand out though. Very good point that I hadn't given much thought to!



RhineStone said:


> You are so cute! (And I hate the word "cute"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Myrna you make me laugh!

I can't comment on the ride just yet as that was my only time driving it and we only went around the ring about 4 times as it was heavy going through the deep arena sand and I didn't want to overly stress her young body. It did seem fairly smooth from what I could tell, and I think she liked the marathon shafts. I'm looking forward to trying it in the grass. I've never driven anything but my EE and Hyperbike, so I'm interested to see what effect the elliptical springs have!

This jacket and "apron" were a Goodwill find. The jacket was $5 and the skirt that I'm using as an apron was $2! It was a great find. I will have to see if my creative neighbor can add a trim for me, I think that would look very nice. There is a great embroidery shop that I could probably get a monogram done at too.

Good to know we are on the right track for the CDE's! I'll keep working to become pleasure show perfect!



Sandee said:


> For what it's worth, I like the way the purple ties together on the easy entry cart, however on the other cart, unless the colors aren't coming thru true, the hat does stand out and sort of pulls all attention to your head. Is the jacket gray or perhaps does it have a purple tint to it?


The jacket is gray, but has a faint purple stripe running through it as well as a green stripe. In person the jacket as a whole has a purplish tint to it. I think the main problem is is that the hat is too purple, while the stripe in the jacket is more of a lilac, so it doesn't coordinate like it could.

Here is a close up of the hat, scarf, and jacket together. The colors are not completely true as the flash on my camera was rather bright, but it is close.








Helicopter said:


> Geez Jessica, I think you look absolutely stunning... ABSOLUTELY STUNNING.
> 
> So jealous.






You are too sweet!

As another challenge (and an attempt keep it MHR!), what would you do with this mare?






She is the one that will most likely get to show this year. Bella cannot do CDE's for another year, we could do pleasure shows but will probably stick to recreational drives. I would love to get Locita out this year though. She is an odd color, has extensive roaning, more than is evident in this photo. This is in full summer coat, when she is clipped she is a bit lighter, almost pinkish. Do you think if I played up the green rather than the purple that same coat would work with her? I'm leaning towards no. I also have a tan coat that I could use... Maybe tan and green? She would be in the black EE.


----------



## RhineStone (Feb 7, 2011)

jleonard said:


> So it sounds like the consensus is I need to go hat shopping! I will have to look around Derby time, there should be a great selection then.


Actually, around Easter is a good time, too. Especially if you live in an area where people wear hats to church. Last I checked, the Easter hats weren't out yet in our area. (I did just buy a new blue one from a friend of mine that opened a hat store.



)



jleonard said:


> Here is a close up of the hat, scarf, and jacket together. The colors are not completely true as the flash on my camera was rather bright, but it is close.


Yup, isn't it amazing how it can go SO well together close up, and then from 20-30 ft. away where the judge is, it doesn't work so well? That it why you did exactly the right thing to have a "dress rehearsal". I obviously didn't do that with some of my not-so-great turnouts!



jleonard said:


> As another challenge (and an attempt keep it MHR!), what would you do with this mare?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For roans and pintos, you really have to look at the base color, and then also the "cast" that the roans end up when shed. Right now, I would say green would work well, BUT if she turns "pink" or "purple", then you have your hands full. The "right" green might work, but I don't think the same coat would work. Tan would probably be a good choice, and then accent with a bit of color in your scarf the same "color" as she ends up. Picking a turnout for her would be a perfect opportunity to use the Hobby Horse Clothing Company's website. They have an interactive where you can "try on" colors with the color of your horse. Granted, it is western clothing, but you can get the idea. http://www.hobbyhors...ors/index.shtml

Myrna


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 7, 2011)

jleonard said:


> I can't comment on the ride just yet as that was my only time driving it and we only went around the ring about 4 times as it was heavy going through the deep arena sand and I didn't want to overly stress her young body. It did seem fairly smooth from what I could tell, and I think she liked the marathon shafts. I'm looking forward to trying it in the grass.


About the only part of your turnout I'm qualified to comment on is the cart and harness.



I thought the footing might be a bit deep from the look of the breastcollar but you're still going to want to shorten your traces as the marathon shafts should not be pulling the tugs back like that. Otherwise it looks pretty well-fitted! A little low behind her for a balanced appeareance, but on the plus side it should have a low center of gravity.

The cream hubs are definitely distracting at this point as all you see is white hubs and her white head. When she greys out it won't be so bad but for now it's unfortunate. Combined with the purple hat, it's white/white/purple with nothing unifying it. I don't see the green hardly at all in any of those photos and that's a shame! I think if it was me I'd be trying to pull the cart color out using green elements with warm tan or cream-type accents that tie into the midtone range of Bella's body without being cold or attention-getting. Then again, I'm [email protected] with turnouts and we all know it!





I did love the purple outfit with black Suzy and the EE but not so much with Bella.



jleonard said:


> As another challenge (and an attempt keep it MHR!), what would you do with this mare?


Most of the time I don't like red with chestnuts but it looked very nice with Locita at the National Drive. Red or green would be my choices with her. She can pull off blue or purple but it's not as flattering and honestly for whatever reason I like red with her. She's still my girl!



LOVE your mares.

Leia


----------



## RhineStone (Feb 7, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> You're still going to want to shorten your traces as the marathon shafts should not be pulling the tugs back like that. Otherwise it looks pretty well-fitted!
> 
> Agree.
> 
> ...


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 7, 2011)

> _I think if it was me I'd be trying to pull the cart color out using green elements with warm tan or cream-type accents that tie into the midtone range of Bella's body without being cold or attention-getting. _
> I agree, I think that would work, too.
> 
> _Then again, I'm [email protected] with turnouts and we all know it!_
> ...






Thanks! I'll admit that my eye there comes not from any sense of fashion but from having painted too many gray model horses! You learn a lot about color tones doing that, and you've taught me about not having too "cool" of a seat pulling out the horse's white mane and tail.

Leia


----------



## jleonard (Feb 8, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> Actually, around Easter is a good time, too. Especially if you live in an area where people wear hats to church. Last I checked, the Easter hats weren't out yet in our area. (I did just buy a new blue one from a friend of mine that opened a hat store.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I forgot about Easter, I'll have to look then too! Congrats on your new hat, I'll be looking forward to seeing it!

I have used the color wheel before but didn't know about the interactive page, that was quite helpful!



hobbyhorse23 said:


> About the only part of your turnout I'm qualified to comment on is the cart and harness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't think the tugs should be pulled back, but wasn't certain as I've never had marathon shafts. Unfortunately the traces are as short as they will go right now, I need to order some that are 6" shorter so they will fit when we shorten the shafts.

I think I will try to find a green hat that can go with this jacket, but can also be used with my tan jacket, that way it might work for both horses. I wonder if wearing the tan jacket would help tie in the pin stripes and spokes of the new cart as well, hmmm...

Locita is tough, I have yet to find a color that I love on her She has a royal blue halter and I don't care for it at all, she doesn't look great in Suzy's purple halter either. I'll have to go out and hold up some of the pony's halters and see what they look like. We have a rainbow in our barn!

That midtone range is called dirt



She is so stained right now, her tail isn't really yellow either! She changes colors so much, it will be interesting to see what she does this year.

I think I am just an oddball, I am a redhead that wears a lot of red and dresses my chestnuts in red too, but I don't think it looks as horrible as it could





Leia I absolutely disagree with your not being good at turnouts! Thank you all for your help, I'll be sure to let you know what I end up with!

I think I must be lucky with my girls. I LOVE mares, but most people I know can't stand them. Maybe I am just blessed with wonderful, non-mareish mares.


----------



## Knottymare (Feb 9, 2011)

I know NOTHING of show driving... but wanted to say that you and your horses are LOVELY.

Not sure if one of the others mentioned it, but how bout just putting a green bow on the hat. Not garishly green, soft green... that would pull the colors together. And I liked the idea of pinning up one side of the hat...

Congrats on the new cart!


----------



## RhineStone (Feb 9, 2011)

jleonard said:


> I think I will try to find a green hat that can go with this jacket, but can also be used with my tan jacket, that way it might work for both horses. I wonder if wearing the tan jacket would help tie in the pin stripes and spokes of the new cart as well, hmmm...


Now you are on the right track!



Just make sure it is a tan that will go with your pony's gray at the time.



jleonard said:


> I think I must be lucky with my girls. I LOVE mares, but most people I know can't stand them. Maybe I am just blessed with wonderful, non-mareish mares.


You must be lucky. Right now, I have a few mareish mares, and they are driving me crazy! My oldest one is probably the least mareish, but my husband thinks that the youngest one (the Arab/DHH who turns 3 tomorrow) and I are having "estrogen battles".



I had a "coming-to-meetings" with a young mini last year, and ever since she has been pretty good, and will probably be our son's show horse this year. She is SO easy to drive now that she gave up her "attitude".



We were even driving over bubble wrap a couple weeks ago!

Myrna


----------



## Reignmaker Miniatures (Feb 9, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> We were even driving over bubble wrap a couple weeks ago!
> 
> Myrna


Ohhh, what a *good* idea!!! I never thought of that, I've done the usual, wood, tarps, even some egg cartons but never tried bubble wrap.


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 9, 2011)

jleonard said:


> Locita is tough, I have yet to find a color that I love on her She has a royal blue halter and I don't care for it at all, she doesn't look great in Suzy's purple halter either.


I liked her with the royal blue halter but know what you mean. Turbo's the same way- some things look awful with him, a couple of colors look okay, but nothing jumps out and screams "YES!!" with him.



Silly dilute! So far the only things I've found that I really like with him are a particular shade of maroon and a deep navy blue. Not royal blue, no, that drowns him out.



But _navy_ blue looks good on him. He's so pale when he's clipped that anything in a jewel-tone makes him look terribly washed out. Thankfully he looks okay with Kody's hunter green and Kody looks okay with Turbo's navy so I think our team colors will be hunter green and navy. Very Pacific NW-ie!







jleonard said:


> Leia I absolutely disagree with your not being good at turnouts!


Have you ever looked closely at the one (count 'em, ONE) outfit I ever managed to put together?



That's the best I could do after six years!





I gotta tell you though, the more I look at that photo of Locita the more I think you might be able to use an outfit like I have for Kody- something in primarily a neutral palate with accents of green and shiny chestnut brown. With a deep brown-stained wood cart, wouldn't she look awesome??



jleonard said:


> I think I must be lucky with my girls. I LOVE mares, but most people I know can't stand them. Maybe I am just blessed with wonderful, non-mareish mares.


You do have very special girls. I've never had much problem with mares (I just keep ending up with boys but it's nothing against the ladies!) but Locita and Bella in particular are special. Bella is such an old soul and Locita so steady and true.





Leia


----------



## Sandee (Feb 10, 2011)

jleonard said:


> ................................
> 
> ........................
> 
> I think I must be lucky with my girls. I LOVE mares, but most people I know can't stand them. Maybe I am just blessed with wonderful, non-mareish mares.



I had a trainer once that told me "If you are lucky enough to have a mare that will partner with you, you'll have a horse that gives you everything. Boys will work but never as hard as a mare."

I'm now convinced that she was right. My boys (3 - 2 geldings, 1 stallion) are outright lazy. They will do the work asked of them but it's more like their heart isn't in it. My mare, which I've had since she was a baby and trained myself, has and will give me 110%. She's pulled neck muscles trying to go properly in footing too deep. She put her back out clearing jumps that were taller than she is. She will willingly go thru any obstacle course without hesitation. I've spent more on her in purchase price and in vet bills than all my boys put together but she's worth every penny.


----------



## Peggy Porter (Feb 10, 2011)

I am a gelding fan(atic!). All my horses are geldings. My two minis have fabulous work ethics, and our OTTB is an exercise freak. He's just getting warmed up after an hour. Our barn owner loves her mares. She did comment, however, that there was a change in her girls' attitudes after my boys came to the farm. Kinda like when the all-girls school goes co-ed, I guess! VBG! If you have all mares, I guess the whole hussy-fit stuff does not appear. But bring on the boys......


----------



## RhineStone (Feb 10, 2011)

Sandee said:


> I had a trainer once that told me "If you are lucky enough to have a mare that will partner with you, you'll have a horse that gives you everything.


I have heard this, too. The problem is that I don't have any partners, yet!



Right now, I'm not overly impressed with my mini mares' work ethics. Alax never balks at work at all (he might balk at one of those black plywood cutout animals on the obstacle course, but not work in general....



). I work him about 1 1/2 -2 hours 3-4 X a week in the summer, and although he will tire towards the end, he will always go when I ask.

I think the mares' work ethic will change eventually as we have more experience together and they are in better condition.

Myrna


----------



## jleonard (Feb 10, 2011)

Knottymare said:


> I know NOTHING of show driving... but wanted to say that you and your horses are LOVELY.


Thank you!



RhineStone said:


> You must be lucky. Right now, I have a few mareish mares, and they are driving me crazy! My oldest one is probably the least mareish, but my husband thinks that the youngest one (the Arab/DHH who turns 3 tomorrow) and I are having "estrogen battles".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a fantastic idea! I'm going to have to find some bubble wrap!

I understand those "estrogen battles"! My chestnut TB mare and I used to have "opinionated redhead battles", but boy when she turned on she was incredible! She wasn't mareish in the least, just a chestnut TB mare



I got one of those bumper stickers that says "He!! hath no fury like a chestnut Thoroughbred mare!" I do have one pinto pony who is incredibly mareish and she does drive me crazy, if I had more than one of her I don't think I'd be fond of mares either! She has an awful work ethic and is just miserable to work with most of the time, which is unfortunate as she is gorgeous and talented when she feels like it!



hobbyhorse23 said:


> Have you ever looked closely at the one (count 'em, ONE) outfit I ever managed to put together?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guess I need a reminder Leia! I can't picture your outfit right now, but you at least have that artistic eye that can look at the turnout as a whole. I tend to compartmentalize and have trouble looking at the whole picture.



Peggy P said:


> She did comment, however, that there was a change in her girls' attitudes after my boys came to the farm. Kinda like when the all-girls school goes co-ed, I guess! VBG! If you have all mares, I guess the whole hussy-fit stuff does not appear. But bring on the boys......


I like your boys Peggy! My geldings have all been wonderful too (except for my dad's gelding who is often more of a mare than my girls



). I am like Leia, it is not that I have anything against geldings, I just somehow end up with mares.

That is not the case with my herd, I have two geldings with my five mares and it does not affect their attitudes.

I have heard the saying about mares giving everything too, and I agree. The boys will do everything you ask, but the great girls (the non-mareish ones) will do all you ask and more (not to say that there are not geldings like this too



)


----------



## Ashley (Feb 11, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> I have heard this, too. The problem is that I don't have any partners, yet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats his genetics. His whole family gave a 110% when doing anything. Even the one mare who was the least likely to do any type of show work gave 110% to escapeing the fence.


----------



## Shari (Feb 11, 2011)

All I have is a mare to drive, she is wonderful, brave and all that. But we drive alone.

Knowing what a hussy she is around boys, not sure I would want to drive her around them. Or she might surprise me and be good.





Wish Maggie was more like my Icelandic Mares. They don't get hussy at all. The act like nice geldings, even around stallions.

All my mares are hard workers.


----------



## Knottymare (Feb 11, 2011)

Funny reading the turn this topic took!

I love mares... I guess I can relate to their emotional side. Every gelding I've ever had but one has been as moody and broody as any mare. In fact, I've never seen a mare pout the way a gelding can. Geldings can be such pouters!


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 11, 2011)

I think, as always, it depends on the horse. Kody has always gone full blast 100% of the time no matter what he's doing. He's the kind that throws his heart over the fence and the rest of him follows.



My mother's Arab gelding was that way too, and while mine was less bold he had a quiet courage to carry through all the trauma his life had held and he literally went through heck for me because I asked him to. I love my geldings!! Turbo is less bold, the only one of the four geldings mentioned that is not an alpha personality, but he's bonding hard and fast at this point and I suspect will give me everything he's got when driving just because I asked him to if not because he'd naturally give that much. He certainly isn't lazy.

I think some mares just have higher standards and more demanding personalities. They'll run roughshod over you to get what they want but if you can earn their respect you'll have it for life. Others are sweeter, more steady and laid back, and those are more like your typical gelding. I think for either sex it's an issue of having the right personality for the person. For most handlers Kody is an incorrigible, unmanageable pain in the @$$. For me he shows the flip side of that and gives everything he has to the point of personal injury. My friend Breanna gets along great with her alpha mare because they have the same goal- both want to drive, drive, drive, and they're partners! She might not get along with a submissive sort of driver because she wouldn't respect her as a working partner. Mare or gelding (or for that matter, stallion), you've got to have a good personality match between the partners. Otherwise it's just going through the motions and no fun for anyone!

Leia


----------



## Helicopter (Feb 11, 2011)

Undoubtedly you've all heard this one.

You tell a gelding..........................you ask a stallion.........................and you politely suggest to to mare.



:wub



:wub


----------

