# At what age can a colt breed



## Country Lady (Mar 24, 2011)

Thank you all for the information, I must say that I am sorry for starting such an debate




. As for the colt he was removed, and I will carefully watch the mares. IF for any reason she may be bred, she will be properly cared for. I want to give a special thanks to nnadams for understanding the learning curve.



However I must defend myself on this one thing, I am new to minis, however not to the world of breeding and showing animals, In my area I was the one informing others in the world of rabbits, and I think that once we become "experts" in our areas, we forget the times when we where learning. Resulting in assisting others in a manner less than desirable. My decision was not of negligence. I was informed by someone I do trust that he was not able bred, the first time I witnessed his behavior I sought additional advice here, and was accused of not caring for her safety, my concern is why I sought information



. I am not hindered by the advice, I am an adult, I just would like to point out that on the internet, you do not know who you are addressing in such a forward manner, please think next time, the next questions could come from a child, or 4-Her seeking advice from elders, and receiving a very insulting answer. Those answer are the ones that turn kids and others from your hobby, to other things, I have witnessed this.

Thank you again for all the advice I have received, and I have learned my lesson, hopefully others learn from my stupidity as well!!!!





I have a colt that will be one year old in June. I do not have any other horses under three and he had no one to turn out with him his own age, he acted a little down. I was reading here that some breeders put colts out with mares so that they can teach them to be a gentlemen. I did this about 4 months ago now, and after I worried and watched he became part of the herd and I think he is happier, they run and jump as he should. Two of these mares are open due to plans of showing them this year. and the third is out of requirements. I am not sure of her exact story as it was lost during the course of time, she is 13 and has had one foal due to problems they both did survive however she was on IVs and at the vet for the a while, it was recommended that she was not bred again. I am respecting that for her safety, she drives and I am happy with her. He has began to nip at them, to herd them were he wants them, they are not overly aggressive and I have been happy with their response to them, they will nip back or turn their hind end to him, I think they are teaching him they way to treat a lady, however tonight he tried to mount the mare that should not be bred. She did turn and run him off, he just came up behind her and jumped up, no "courtship" or "romance" as my stallion does with his ladies. I hope she is teaching him to not be so pushy, however my concern is when is he fertile, and able to bred her. When should he be away from my mares? Thanks


----------



## Matt73 (Mar 24, 2011)

Colts should not be around mares after 6 months....

"...they can be fertile from as early as six months. Once the colt starts mounting other horses (of either sex) then he is should be treated as fertile and if not already, weaned and seperated to prevent inbreeding with his dam."


----------



## Nathan Luszcz (Mar 24, 2011)

Colts can breed physically around 6mo or earlier, and can be fertile around 10 months.


----------



## midnight star stables (Mar 24, 2011)

Separate or geld him.



I know I have one mare bred this year and will be keeping the foal. If she gives me a colt; I'll be in the same boat as you - with one lonely colt. Do you have any geldings to put him with? I know that's what I'll be planning on doing. Hope it helps!!


----------



## Molly's Run Minis (Mar 24, 2011)

get him outta there ASAP! colts can start successfully breeding at 8-10 months old, she may already be pregnant!

if i were you i'd take him out and get the vet there ASAP and have the vet give lutalyse(sp?) to any mare you dont want bred, just in case.


----------



## Molly's Run Minis (Mar 24, 2011)

midnight star stables said:


> Separate or geld him



either way she'll have to seperate him.

my vet told me that it takes around 6 months after gelding for the sperm to die, only then can the horse safely be put with mares. Thats what I was told anyway


----------



## weebiscuit (Mar 24, 2011)

Once my colts are weaned I remove them from the mares and they are never allowed to run with them, because they will breed them if given a chance!

I have successfully kept my young stallions in the same dry lots or pastures until two and three years old, but once we've used a stallion for breeding he can't be with the others any more as he just wants to throw his weight around.


----------



## Songcatcher (Mar 24, 2011)

Country Lady said:


> I have a colt that will be one year old in June. ...
> 
> I was reading here that some breeders put colts out with mares so that they can teach them to be a gentlemen. I did this about 4 months ago now....
> 
> Two of these mares are open due to plans of showing them this year. and the third is out of requirements. ... it was recommended that she was not bred again. I am respecting that for her safety...


Sorry, but you have NOT respected her safety. You have put her in a situation to be bred and she very likely already is, as well as the other mares. NEVER put a weaned colt in with mares or fillies!

Edited: I stand by my belief that putting the colt in with mares was not a responsible thing to do and that the action put the mare in danger. However, my bluntness was in large part due to frustration from previous situations where children have asked for advise, and then deliberately ignored and went against the advise of experienced breeders. The original post has been edited to show that that is not the situation in this case. I applaud the original poster for taking steps to correct the situation and prevent the problem in the future.


----------



## Make A Wish Miniatures (Mar 24, 2011)

I separate my colts and fillies at weaning . Get him out right away and hope he hasn't already bred your mares.


----------



## drmatthewtaylor (Mar 25, 2011)

Certainly be wary that anything 'can' happen, but in general stallions are 15 months or older before they can successfully breed. Research has noted that both stallions and, to a lesser degree, fillies may exhibit sexual display before their reproductive tracts are physiologically mature. Pregnancy cannot occur until the respective reproductive tract matures at the time of puberty. Conversely, some fillies may cycle but not exhibit signs of estrus.

Dr Taylor


----------



## nnadams (Mar 25, 2011)

Songcatcher said:


> Sorry, but you have NOT respected her safety. You have put her in a situation to be bred and she very likely already is, as well as the other mares. NEVER put a weaned colt in with mares or fillies!



Okay!! I think she's gotten the message!





When someone comes to this forum to learn from the more experienced and knowledgeable, it is just inappropriate to be so condescending.

I am sure she will move the colt immediately and know better in the future.

Thank you to all of you that are so patient and kind with the ones of us who don't already know-it-all!


----------



## rabbitsfizz (Mar 25, 2011)

A colt can breed at nine months and get the mare in foal- also, of curse, as we have seen on here many times, yearling mares can get in foal and often do with tragic results.

Teaching the colt manners is your job, not the mares- I have never found this to work, anyway, and I do think it is a huge imposition on the mare's good nature.

It only takes a mare made subservient by season for a yearling to be taught that he can, in fact, be a nasty little bully.

Did you think what would happen if a mare foaled with a yearling colt in the field- mares often do not go by the book, and a yearling would not have the instincts of a grown stallion.

So, pull him from the field and teach him manners yourself.

You will now also have to have all your mare ultrasounded....ugh....thsi will not be a cheap mistake, still we all make them!

Oh and someone a way back said gelded colts are fertile for six months?

Not so, six weeks, maximum, will do it, but what takes time to settle down is the hormonal behaviour, so I would not put a newly gelded animal in with mares, ever.


----------



## Shari (Mar 25, 2011)

drmatthewtaylor said:


> Certainly be wary that anything 'can' happen, but in general stallions are 15 months or older before they can successfully breed. Research has noted that both stallions and, to a lesser degree, fillies may exhibit sexual display before their reproductive tracts are physiologically mature. Pregnancy cannot occur until the respective reproductive tract matures at the time of puberty. Conversely, some fillies may cycle but not exhibit signs of estrus.
> 
> Dr Taylor


Beg to differ.

Mecca an Arab colt bred back his mother at 7 months old. He was the only colt on the property, DNA testing confirmed it was him. She had a healthy foal. I bought him and had him gelded.

Know a number of people that had their 6 to 8 month old colts breed back their mothers and other mares in the same pasture.


----------



## drmatthewtaylor (Mar 25, 2011)

Shari said:


> Beg to differ.
> 
> Mecca an Arab colt bred back his mother at 7 months old. He was the only colt on the property, DNA testing confirmed it was him. She had a healthy foal. I bought him and had him gelded.
> 
> Know a number of people that had their 6 to 8 month old colts breed back their mothers and other mares in the same pasture.


My quote;

''Certainly be wary that anything 'can' happen, but in general stallions''

So I said it could happen. Nothing is impossible. Somethings are just less likely.

Dr Taylor


----------



## drmatthewtaylor (Mar 25, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Dr. Taylor, are you basing this on knowledge of large horses or the minis? I have been fortunate to never have this happen, but have had many colts born with their jewels already in place, to the surprise of my equine vet when she came to do the IgG. These are the colts who start mounting momma and any other female in the broodmare band within weeks of birth. I have often weaned these types of colts at 3 months instead of later because the poor little boys get erections and even drip sometimes.
> 
> A friend of mine who didn't believe me, left his weanling colt in with momma and a few fillies, and low and behold, momma and a yearling filly turned up pregnant for the next year. Is it possible that these little ones with some of their unique characteristics, mature faster? We have so many things to watch with this minis that I never did with big horses. Their ulcers, attending births, dystocias, mare/stallion size for delivery, colic, etc. It seems that these little ones are more prone to some of these problems. When I had big horses, I honestly never worried about any of this in decades of raising Arabians and Peruvian Pasos.
> 
> ...


Little confused why your Vet was surprised to palpate testes at birth as this should be the norm for most species and is certainly true for all sizes of horses.

I find know reference that differentiates between minis and larger horse. In dogs, smaller breeds do tend to reach puberty earlier than larger breeds, but as I do not know of a study that proves this out in horses then I can only say it could be possible.

Dr Taylor


----------



## supaspot (Mar 25, 2011)

I actually had the vet here yesterday doing a gelding for me , I mentioned the fact that many in the US geld at or just after birth , she was gobsmacked and couldnt believe it , over here and in the UK the norm would be around 18 months


----------



## Nathan Luszcz (Mar 25, 2011)

15 months is really late for any breed, big or small.... puberty usually is closer to 9 months, plus or minus. Testis should definitely be present at birth



But it is the norm for miniatures to "hide" them for weeks to months.

While sexual BEHAVIOR can definately happen as early as a few months, fertility isn't there until later.


----------



## champsmom (Mar 25, 2011)

I have several yearling colts also and I called my vet today re gelding. He told gave me the same imfo that Dr. Taylor gave. He also stated that it probably was best to seperate the colts and mares. One of my almost yearlings still hasn't dropped but the other is acting studdy already. I think I am going to opt for putting the boys together till I can get everyone gelded. I also have a 4 year old stallion that I am going to get gelded so there are going to be a lot of grumpy boys around here.


----------



## drmatthewtaylor (Mar 25, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Okay, well now I'm a bit confused -- which isn't hard! My vet said that she did not expect to see them in place within the first 24 hours. She said it was more common for her to find them later, and that in some miniatures, they can even take until 2-3 years to drop into place. I know I've seen discussions on the "late" dropping of the jewels here on LB. I don't have knowledge of it, but perhaps someone else does??
> 
> Thank you for your reply, also! I just LOVE your straight-forward (and many times humorous) answers! ~~Diane



Well thank you, I think I'm very funny.

I would like you to run this by your Vet as I think we are likely on the same page, but describing it differently.

Research has shown that all but 17% of foals have at least one teste in the scrotum at birth, but those studies are done on necropsies so they can see the teste, feeling the teste is not always as easy and as minis are small, so are their testes relatively. After 2 weeks the inguinal ring usually becomes impassable to teste migration. Testes that drop later should really be considered abnormal.

Dr Taylor


----------



## Molly's Run Minis (Mar 25, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Oh and someone a way back said gelded colts are fertile for six months?
> 
> Not so, six weeks, maximum, will do it,


i said that.

i knew it was 6 something lol! wasnt sure if it was weeks or months


----------



## Molly's Run Minis (Mar 25, 2011)

Country Lady said:


> As for the colt he was removed, and I will carefully watch the mares. IF for any reason she may be bred, she will be properly cared for.



may i make a suggestion? instead of waiting to see if she is pregnant, why not just have the vet come out and give her a shot of lutalyse? it will get rid of the fetus and you wont have to worry, its also fairly cheap. i had to do it for my mare when she was two when our gelding(then stallion) got loose and bred her.


----------



## Helicopter (Mar 25, 2011)

Very interesting discussion which just proves to me yet again what a lucky duck I am.

I don't breed but do collect




:RollEyes and have had colts running with mares way longer than was apparently safe.

How lucky am I?



Although I wouldn't mind having a sweet baby.



All colts gelded at the moment so no fear of that happening now.

Perhaps ignorance sometimes is bliss. (Don't yell at me anyone I'm fragile).


----------



## Nathan Luszcz (Mar 26, 2011)

And most of that 6 weeks is for behavior



They're only fertile for a few hours/days. Within a week there will be no surviving sperm. This has been shown through direct research.


----------



## HGFarm (Mar 26, 2011)

For the original poster here, you are not stupid, just were not fully educated on these little guys, but now you are. Everyone has to start somewhere! Glad you asked so you could fix the situation!


----------



## rabbitsfizz (Mar 26, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Okay, well now I'm a bit confused -- which isn't hard! My vet said that she did not expect to see them in place within the first 24 hours. She said it was more common for her to find them later, and that in some miniatures, they can even take until 2-3 years to drop into place. I know I've seen discussions on the "late" dropping of the jewels here on LB. I don't have knowledge of it, but perhaps someone else does??
> 
> Thank you for your reply, also! I just LOVE your straight-forward (and many times humorous) answers! ~~Diane


I have never had a colt born without the testicles in place, and would be_ very_ worried if this happened, so I am surprised that a Vet, who ought to know this , was surprised by this.

My experience before Minis was with Arabs and Welsh, and the colts were born with testicles- I should have head a fit had this not been so.

I also can confirm, as I did earlier, that I had a foal sired by a ten month old colt.

We would never have dreamed of leaving colts and fillies together after weaning.

Sorry, this is sounding a bit rough on the OP- I was not criticising you, my dear, whats done is done, you learn and you carry on, as far as I am concerned!

But there are a lot of TB yearling fillies (or were, possibly they have now learned from their mistakes) that were got in foal by yearling colts- and remember their "yearlings" are often 8- 10 months old - so I would say this is the norm, not the exception.

Both my yearling colts are ready, willing and able, if you catch my drift





The nice, well behaved boys are the two yearling geldings.


----------

