# Laminitis



## Marsha Cassada (Nov 23, 2011)

Have a driving horse that was diagnosed with acute laminitis yesterday. I've put him in a dry lot and am altering his feed. Gave him a dose of banamine.

What experience does anyone have with this condition, long term?

Thanks for any help.


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## chandab (Nov 23, 2011)

With excellent farrier care my two laminitic mares are doing quite well. One is on an extremely strict diet, the other not as strict. For the one mare, it took bute to help her initially, as banamine wouldn't touch her pain, then she went on B-L pellets for 6 months (it was 6 months before I felt comfortable trying her off them, she was fine). [b-L pellets can't be used on pregnant mares.] Its been such a long road with these two mares, that I can't begin to tell their stories (I really just don't remember the details), just so glad I finally found a competent farrier that has worked wonders with them both.


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## drmatthewtaylor (Nov 23, 2011)

Unfortunately, laminitis can be frustrating as it doesn't always respond to therapy the same. Thus you will hear many different treatment options.

The hallmarks for any treatment protocol should include pain management and diagnosis along with removal of inciting cause.

Dr Taylor


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## Lori W (Nov 23, 2011)

I have a half Haflinger pony with chronic laminitis due to Cushings and insulin resistence. I work closely with my vet and a lameness specialist farrier to keep him as sound as possible. He's in a dry lot and I feed him several small meals of first cutting hay each day - this mimics grazing, will help stave off ulcers, and keeps his metabolism steady. He also gets Quiessence along with necessary vitamins. And since he is cushinoid, he's on Pergolide, too.

When he has a bout of laminitis (acute), my main concern is providing relief for him. Since he's a pony (not a mini), I add bute twice a day. I don't think anyone recommends bute for minis. Banamine or one of the other NSAIDs are usually used (check the forum for pain relief regimes for minis). You also have to consider the real possibility of ulcers.

If his symptoms are severe, I keep him stalled in 6" or more of sawdust; sand will also work, but I don't like the possibility of ingesting sand. Otherwise, if he's moving about okay (just sore), I let him stay in his dry lot since he's much happier outside, watching him closely to make sure he's able to walk to his water without trouble. I have also used boots with a gel insole to cushion his feet and/or keep out the ice balls that form in the winter.

Whenever an acute bout of laminitis occurs, I have the vet out to assess him and take additional x-rays of his feet, if needed. Rotation of the coffin bone is a killer. The farrier also checks the x-rays before any additional trimming is done.

Here's a website I've found helpful regarding laminitis: http://evrp.lsu.edu/06laminitis.htm

Best of luck to you and your little one!


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## targetsmom (Nov 23, 2011)

I would suggest a forum search for founder or laminitis - two words that strike terror into many of us who have dealt with it.

Once this happens it is much more likely to happen again. My first horse, 50 years ago, foundered (I use the terms interchangeably which I KNOW is not correct) on bread that the restaurant next door was feeding her. After that she would founder on grass, or even in the winter for no reason at all. First time it happened we soaked her feet in a cold stream and I am pretty sure they still recommend cold on the affected feet. Sometimes her feet got so bad she could barely walk. Very sad to see.

Back then they didn't have Remission, which is a supplement to help prevent founder or more episodes. It contains Magnessium and Chromium and is fairly inexpensive. I use it for any fat minis plus our insulin resistant one.

Good luck.

ETA: Quiessence and Remission have the same ingredients - and both will "quiet" the horse too.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 23, 2011)

That website was most informative. Thank you.

I did do a search on the forum for laminitis, but it came up nil. Maybe I didn't do the search correctly.

The trimmer said we caught his condition in the early stages. If this is the early stage, I dread to imagine a later stage...

Thanks for the replies.


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## cretahillsgal (Nov 23, 2011)

Oh no!! So sorry to hear Marsha. But I know you've got one of the best trimmers around working on your horses so you are good to go there!






Shelly trims my 2 ponies who have foundered in the past, but right now I don't have any issues with them. I do keep them on grass hay only and feed SafeChoice since it is lower in starches and sugars. No alfalfa or green grass. (which wasn't a problem this year LOL)


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## Hosscrazy (Nov 23, 2011)

Yes, unfortunately I have experienced both laminitis and founder as a result of Cushings/IR. The best thing you can do is work with your vet and farrier, which you are already doing. I'm so glad to hear it was caught early! I remember being told all sorts of "home remedies" to "fix" it, including taping tuna fish can lids to her feet???



Anyway, sounds like you've taken all the right steps and hopefully there will be a full recovery. A couple good resources:

http://www.safergrass.org/

http://horseshoes.com/

Horseshoes.com has videos, educational materials, and experienced farriers that are a wealth of information.

Best wishes,

Liz N.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 23, 2011)

Oh no! I just went over to the other forum and read your update. Well, at least you know, wonder why the vet didn't catch that. Anyway, here's my 2 cents (worth what you pay probably);

If you caught it in its early stages (before the bones begin to shift) there is every reason to hope for a full recovery. I have seen laminitis in 2 horses. My driving mare had a short bout of it one winter when she was carrying her one and only foal. I didn't really do much in the way of treatment, changed her diet by reducing sugars(starch) and increased her access to loose minerals. She has never gone other than sound again and the farrier tells me he sees no signs of it in her feet now. The other was a pony gelding we bought already foundered. He had the slipper toes already and it was easy for even a lay person to see he was in pain. He'd been fed by an old farmer who would just turn him out on grass all year and fed oats and carrots as treats. On top of that he rarely trimmed their feet (there were 2 brothers, one foundered the other didn't) Once again with a good diet low in sugars and some consistent good farrier work we had that pony sound in less than a year. A person who knows what to look for can still see he was foundered by looking at his front hooves but he is pain free and happy, even useful, since he has since been trained as one half of a pair with his brother. So my point is don't give up on Dusty, with time and care he may very well be the horse he was. Maybe even better since you will know he is at risk and keep his weight in check etc.


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## ThreeCFarm (Nov 23, 2011)

Marsha, Bob is IR as you know. He had some rotation earlier this year, but he still drives sound. He is on drylot and I have switched him to Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage. That is safer for him than regular hay, especially in this drought, as I know the NSC in each bag is safe for him. I don't have that guarantee when buying hay from whoever I can get it from right now, and I don't like dealing with soaking hay, particularly over the winter.

As Dr Taylor said, you need to know what caused it to try to prevent it from happening again.

Julie, I don't know the exact situation with your ponies, but while SafeChoice may have a lower NSC than some feeds, but it is still very high. I forget the exact number, but it is well above the recommended amount for an insulin resistant horse. That may not be the issue with your ponies, though.

Marsha, feeding him will depend on what triggered his laminitis. He's still a young horse, so Cushings shouldn't be the issue. I haven't seen him since he left his seller's, so I don't know if IR could be the issue (I know his dam wasn't IR, and I don't remember his sire having any signs of it in the short time he was in Oklahoma), or what else could be going on. I will send you an email tonight.


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## Shari (Nov 23, 2011)

The rescue Icelandic I took in over 2 1/2 years ago had chronic founder and a deep infection in her hoof.

It took me with a good Vet and Farrier, 2 years to get her sound and stable but it can be done.

Not that your mini has this, but for deep infections of the hoof I highly recommend CleanTrax. This is the only thing out there that got rid of Stjarna's deep infection. (Was told, White Lighting, was just as good but couldn't get ahold of it)

The vitamins I feed her are, Triple Crown's Low starch.

It takes time for a horse's hoof to heal, up to 8 months for the hoof to fully grow out. But you can get them and keep them sound, just takes a bit of time and work.


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## Hosscrazy (Nov 23, 2011)

Good article in TheHorse.com just came out, too:

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=19147

Liz N.


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## targetsmom (Nov 23, 2011)

Interesting that 50 years after my mare foundered they are still recommending standing the horse is a stream. Of course we didn't have the fancy cold wraps or boots then.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 23, 2011)

Very old Gypsy remedy- cut the feet back till they bleed, hot shoe the horse and then stand in a stream overnight.

If your horse is still alive in the morning (I added that bit!) it will be cured.

I do NOT suggest trying this, but paring can be very helpful.

I am afraid Bute is the drug of choice- you do need to give it carefully but short term there is no reason why it should be harmful- I do give Ranitidene at the same time (after not before dosing) Of course you should run all this by your Vet.

I am so sorry this has happened to you, it is always a horrible thing and very stressful.


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## prairie ponies (Nov 23, 2011)

targetsmom said:


> I would suggest a forum search for founder or laminitis - two words that strike terror into many of us who have dealt with it.
> 
> Once this happens it is much more likely to happen again. My first horse, 50 years ago, foundered (I use the terms interchangeably which I KNOW is not correct) on bread that the restaurant next door was feeding her. After that she would founder on grass, or even in the winter for no reason at all. First time it happened we soaked her feet in a cold stream and I am pretty sure they still recommend cold on the affected feet. Sometimes her feet got so bad she could barely walk. Very sad to see.
> 
> ...


The winter founder sure cought my attention. My mare has foundered the last two February's in Michigan when it got VERY cold! I spent this this entire summer getting her sound again (at the least not in pain) with monthy trips to the University Hospital. I just dred what will happen to her this winter. I sure need an answer for her? The vets at the university just scratch thier heads and seemed puzzled. They accually argue that cold is not the onset. I know it is. My farrier agrees that it is cold onset and is puzzled. He says he has one other that does it in the winter. I have her thin and on IR herbs, and bad grass hay. Just dont know what else to do for her to keep this winter's cold from bringing on the founder.


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## Marty (Nov 23, 2011)

HI Marsha, and I'm so sorry about this.

What you are doing is not nearly enough and you need to become very aggressive right now.

_I've put him in a dry lot and am altering his feed. Gave him a dose of banamine._

You need to be out there soaking his feet about 3 times a day in cool water for about a week.

You need to be dosing banamine daily too. If it is not working, you'll have to up the anny and either increase it or go to something like a half of tab of bute but he is not going to stabilize unless you get him out of pain.

Don't worry about his feed right this minute; do your dry lot and soak your hay and then get him on some serious feed designed for this type of horse. You'll need to get yourself a real natural barefoot trimmer who's been trained by Pete Ramey or Gene Overneck's methods and that's not easy so start looking around.

I'm really sorry! Hugs


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 23, 2011)

prairie ponies said:


> The winter founder sure cought my attention. My mare has foundered the last two February's in Michigan when it got VERY cold! I spent this this entire summer getting her sound again (at the least not in pain) with monthy trips to the University Hospital. I just dred what will happen to her this winter. I sure need an answer for her? The vets at the university just scratch thier heads and seemed puzzled. They accually argue that cold is not the onset. I know it is. My farrier agrees that it is cold onset and is puzzled. He says he has one other that does it in the winter. I have her thin and on IR herbs, and bad grass hay. Just dont know what else to do for her to keep this winter's cold from bringing on the founder.


Prairie ponies, could it be the hard ground thats causing your mares trouble? If it is then keeping her on a softer surface - well bedded large stall perhaps or... I'm not sure what your situation is so its hard to make suggestions but anyway you can help soften the surface she stands on. Just a thought.


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## targetsmom (Nov 23, 2011)

Prairie Ponies- My farrier pointed out to me that he leaves the hoof a bit longer in the winter to help insulate against the cold ground. I had a mini get sore in the winter from a too short trim (by a different farrier). I thought it was from walking on hard, uneven ground, but he said the cold itself will do it. You might see if keeping the feet just a bit longer helps.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 23, 2011)

Marty said:


> HI Marsha, and I'm so sorry about this.
> 
> What you are doing is not nearly enough and you need to become very aggressive right now.
> 
> ...


My trimmer is a certified barefoot trimmer. That is why I'm taking her opinion over the vet, who thinks it is not laminitis. I am following her advice.

Dusty seems to be responding to the banamine well. My trimmer said we caught it in very early stage.

I will try the cool water.


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## prairie ponies (Nov 24, 2011)

Targetsmom and Reignmaker, Thankyou, I haven't really tried a proactive soft stall it has always been after the fact, sure worth a try! And I am so careful about the farrier every 6 weeks, I will ajust that and talk to the farrier about leaving her feet longer. I wonnder if I should try shoes and pads this winter?


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## barnbum (Nov 24, 2011)

About 18 months ago my Rosie had laminitis. For the first time in years I had all horses pastured together, so I thought finally I have full control of the grass issue because I can open/close gates as needed. It was a very dry May--all gates were open. It rained the night before, but I decided in the morning to leave all gates open because the grass was so dry and I never imagined it' grow enough to be a problem--heck, there were five horses on about an acre. Well--when I was lunging horses that night, Rosie was off. The next afternoon she didn't want to walk. Her hooves were not warm to touch and she was standing in a way to put her weight on her front hooves, so the vet-over the phone--didn't think it was laminitis. I called my trusty farrier and he came right over and made an unofficial diagnosis. He knew just what to do. She got more mats in her stall, with deeper shavings. He said to soak her front hooves in cold water; she was very good about standing in a large black rubber feed bowl while she ate her hay. I gave her Banamine. He trimmed her every few weeks for a while, then finally lengthened it to 6, then 8 weeks. After about 14 months he declared her 100%. A new hoof had grown out.

The vet later said soaking is totally not necessary.

At first he said to muzzle her--so I bought $300 of breakaway halters with muzzles and worked with all five horses until they were comfortable with them. That was still too much for her. So we blocked off a tiny area of her and a friend and sprayed pastures to kill grass. Horses had to be off it for 3 weeks--and then I still muzzled them for several days. Now all are on dry lots, but a shadow of grass emerges after lots of rain and heat. It's been fine. Four can go on the pastures that are still grassy, but they are always muzzled.

My horses don't have cresty necks anymore. They get extra hay, and seem content. We are expanding their dry lot area in the spring; I like giving them lots of room to move and then we'll be utilizing the back run-in too. The fence has already been moved--just have to wait for the grass to die this winter.

Good luck--it's a frustrating and long wait to healing. Stick with who you trust.


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## Charlotte (Nov 24, 2011)

Marsha, I'm going to suggest like Stephanie did, trying the Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage. It is designed for laminitic horses and is low NSC and very consistent.....has vitamins/minerals added to make a complete balanced diet for laminitic horses. It literally saved our Dinah's life. She showed improvement within 3 days of going on it and in 4 weeks was running and bucking like a kid again.

I had tried all the recommendations for feeding and nothing was working at all. She was terribly painful.

She is always on dry lot now and I was concerned about the falling leaves she was eating the past couple weeks, but she has stayed totally sound.

I hope Dusty comes around quickly for you.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 26, 2011)

Dusty seems to be much better. I've been researching where to get the Triple Crown low starch feeds. Purina makes one called Well-Solve, but I don't care for all the soy content in it.

After researching a little about IR, I do not think Dusty has that. He doesn't have any of the symptoms. I think the fresh grass after drought/rain is the culprit.

Thanks to everyone for sharing experiences and advice.


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## a mini dream come true (Nov 26, 2011)

Glad to hear Dusty is doing better.


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## vickie gee (Nov 26, 2011)

Marsha,

Glad Dusty is feeling better. I have a mare that started showing signs of laminitis early in the summer. We also had drought here and while the horses were let out into the grassless pasture for some exercise she did graze for a while on some "watergrass" which was growing in the damp creek. That likely triggered it, but she was the only one. Off and on all summer she would get a bout of it and I would give her bute for 4 days and take her off grain for a week. We bounced back and forth from pain, better, almost normal, to more pain, severe pain, and all the time getting regular trimmings. I had set her up an appointment with my most trusted vet ( 2 hours away ) back in September but she got better, was even running, bucking, and playing. I cancelled the appointment since she was doing so much better and with all the money spent on obtaining hay for the herd it just seemed like the thing to do. Well, wouldn't you know she then got an acute case and the vet was away on a trip. My farrier had even suggested to get her checked out since the problem kept arising. All summer she had been in dry lot, and would get taken off grain as soon as she showed any pain. I was also giving her mini treats of the alfalfa/timothy cubes when she was on no grain. I got her in to see the vet as soon as he was back. Radiographs do show some rotation but doc feels that monthly trimmings with my trusted farrier (he teaches farrier school) will give some correction to the hooves in time. Doc says she is likely forever off green grass. He drew blood to get tests to determine why this is happening to her. We should get the results this week. He says it will be one of these four or a combination of them: (1) insulin resistance (2)cushings (3)thyroid (4)hormones. He had me change her diet to Purina Wellness Low Starch and hay. Her medicine for pain is Previcox. Likely the forthcoming diagnosis will determine whatever meds are needed for specific treatment. She is doing amazingly well at this point. She is back to trotting around and sassing everyone but the queen bee mare. I was just wondering if you also had blood work done. I was at the point that a diagnosis had to be made and had prepared myself for the worst. She did have to stay all night so that the bloodwork could be done after fasting. She has lost weight to the point that she is looking good. One interesting thing doc did tell me is that the Purina LS provides all the nutrition needed for a mini and that hay is not even necessary. I can't imagine taking hay away from a horse but I thought it to be interesting. I might even switch another mare over to it to see if she could trim down since she short/wide. I hope yours situation continues to improve. If you want to know what diagnosis we get I will be happy to let you know. And one more thing: doc did mention a procedure that can be done as a last resort to help correct the rotation. He says right now we are just working on managing the pain.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 26, 2011)

I did research the test. I was advised not to do the test until after this bout passes, as it could affect the test results to be incorrect.

I did look into the Purina Well-solve as it is much easier to get than the Triple Crown. But some research shows that soy can cause endocrine problems; the Purina has lots of soy. So I'm going to hold out for finding Triple Crown. I'd be interested how your girl does on the Purina. It is confusing to sift through all the different information available nowdays.

I'd love to hear how your tests come out! Please contact me privtely if you prefer.

[email protected]

This drought has sure caused some unexpected problems! We thought getting rain would solve our problems, but we just seemed to get new ones.


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