# FAO Schwarz Catalog



## Hosscrazy (Sep 6, 2005)

Ok, you guys know I'm not one to post "come look and see" type posts...but someone just sent this over to me. It's a miniature horse for sale in the FAO Schwarz catalogue...he arrives "read to be ridden"...




While it may be nice that someone comes along with information about how to care for a horse, I just can't say I'm very excited about this one...





Miniature Pony

$15,000.00

Imagine your very own precious pony. FAO Schwarz brings that dream within reach. This miniature purebred makes a perfect companion for young horse lovers. This full-grown pony has a buckskin coat and a soft thick mane and arrives ready to be ridden with a monogrammed FAO Schwarz halter and lead, and a Western saddle. Your pony is escorted home by a specialist who is there to offer complete information on caring for a new horse.

Please call the Division of Local Government for your county to check out any specific regulations. Owing to the size and nature of these ponies (under 36 inches and used solely as pets), they should be considered domestic animals rather than farm animals. The pony comes complete with current health papers stating which vaccinations were given. The pony will need a small outdoor area with protection.

http://www.fao.com/catalog/boutique.jsp?pa...&categoryId=403


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## chandab (Sep 6, 2005)




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## nootka (Sep 6, 2005)

I guess if the right person purchased it, it would be ok, but to turn them into "novelties" I never like to see.

I guess all the little "rich kid wannabes" will want one, now. Probably not the best idea.

Wish I could get that price for the mare I have for sale that's broke for kids! *LOL*

Liz M.


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## mountain_waif (Sep 6, 2005)

....


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## Tony (Sep 6, 2005)

That is great! What terrific advertising for miniatures. I have hoped for years that Neiman Marcus would put a pair in their Christmas catalog, which gets worldwide distribution. At the price, if it sells, and most of their super rich listings don't, I believe that you can rest assured that it will go to a family very capable of providing it with the very best of care. The "big ticket" items are usually just to get people looking and talking about them and usually even get some coverage on the TV talk shows.

Keep in mind that the majority of people reading the issue will be unable to afford that offering, but it might just strike a little attention and cause them to call someone in their area to find out more. I really have concern for the "knee jerk" reaction of many on this board in only looking for the bad in so much, that in my opinion, can be very good for the industry.

P.S. Great picture with the size of the little girl perfect for the horse.


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## RebelsHope (Sep 6, 2005)

Although you make a good point Tony, I still fine it very disturbing. I just called. They were very friendly and the gentleman I talked to informed that you can submit a comment if you go to the website, click on customer service and then on contact us. I don't think a few gentle e mail explaining that a mini is a livestock animal and that they should not be ridden is not out of line.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Sep 6, 2005)

WOW 15.000 bucks think what that will do for our market when they call local breeders and see the much more reasonable price in there area





I dont see it as any different really then minis or other animals being given away in raffles or lets be honest even sold online you dont know "who" your horse is going to really.

edited to add...

I really think this is MUCH better publicity then housebroken horses or poor little dwarves pulling fake carts and such this shows a cute little girl with a cute little mini not to fine boned to hold a small child and again .. think how reasonable our prices will seem compared to the 15,000.


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## horsehug (Sep 6, 2005)

I agree with you, Tony.

I often hesitate to post because it seems to me that so many are so SUPER critical and also always looking for the bad in others. I have always at least "tried" to look for the good in people and circumstances until they prove me wrong.

That picture of the little girl and horse are adorable! And I also see it as a positive thing for the mini industry, that so many feel is glutted. But I often feel and find from my own experiences, that there is a large untapped market for these wonderful little horses we all love.

Excellent post and way of looking at it, Tony 

Susan O.


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## Miniv (Sep 6, 2005)

Thanks Tony. My first thoughts were -- Wow, what a great marketing gimmick! The photo is wonderful!

Then, I thought -- and oh my.....we mini breeders have a lot to teach those folks that see that add and start making phone calls!

MA


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## Dona (Sep 6, 2005)

RebelsHope said:


> Although you make a good point Tony, I still fine it very disturbing. I just called. They were very friendly and the gentleman I talked to informed that you can submit a comment if you go to the website, click on customer service and then on contact us. I don't think a few gentle e mail explaining that a mini is a livestock animal and that they should not be ridden is not out of line.
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"should not be ridden"?????????? Poppycock!





Miniature horses are perfectly capable of being ridden by "appropriate" sized children under supervision.



I repeat "appropriate" sized children under supervision.

I know of an Orion son who belongs to a friend of mine who is only 30" and has been ridden by children his whole life. (in between being a show horse!) You can tell he adores giving rides & and it has never hurt him in the least! I know of many others too....including some of mine.





I think that is one of the biggest selling points of Miniature Horses. The fact that small children are not as intimidated by them & can ride them & gain confidence until they are big enough for larger mounts.

I don't understand the concept that Miniatures are "delicate" and can't support any weight on their backs. They are HORSES and any MATURE Miniature should be able to hold 20% of their own weight on their backs for short rides, with absolutely no problems.


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## jdomep (Sep 6, 2005)

OMG - When I was a little girl I would have circled that one for Santa for sure





I sure hope it does boost the mini market - I wonder if they have a whole heard that looks like that...


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## REO (Sep 6, 2005)

I don't care for the idea, but then I'm not all about the money. I like to know who is getting my "babies" ahead of time and approve. I have turned down selling to some people in the past based on what they said they would do with my horse. I'm NOT judging what others chose to do, just saying what "I" chose to do. No, you can't control the actual care or where they go after that, but I do my best for mine.

I just saw a farm listing on eBay that included their small herd of minis that go with the place. But they did say they would be there to advise if the buyer wished.

I don't know, but I like to have some say who buys my horse. I've turned down larger amounts of money, but sold to the right people for much less. To me, it's all about the love.





Everyone has their own way of doing things and this is mine.


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## Tony (Sep 6, 2005)

Oh, dear. I didn't realize that we were forbidden to ride them. My dad's horses, I guess, should have been taken away from him, when I rode Midnight, 31", in several parades when I was five.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Probably should just edit my posts out. I have never found it difficult to teach people about miniatures, and nicely. Don't kill the "golden goose." I know from first hand experience that we as miniature breeders have developed a reputation for an "attitude" that many organizations have realized, that sometimes it is just "not worth the trouble" to work with us.

Publicity that I certainly couldn't afford, but perhaps others of you could. I prefer to take advantage of the situation, rather than criticizing it.


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## RebelsHope (Sep 6, 2005)

How every you get your jollies Tony.

I have always been under the impression, from knowledgable people on this board as well as what the breed assoications say, minis are not meant to be ridden. I don't know how many times this subject has come up since I have been on here, but it has been more than once. Oh and where was the word forbidden, I seem to recall that my words were.. shouldn't be...

So maybe you are right... maybe your dad's horses should have been taken away.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Sep 6, 2005)

Awwww a little tony how very cute what a great pic...

Just out of curiosity.. how many of you rode little shetlands as kids I know I had one really he was the same size as some of my minis are now

Now that said the build and size of both mini and child should be taken into consideration


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## ChrystalPaths (Sep 6, 2005)

Well folks, I'm with Tony on this one. This can't hurt us and only help in the long run taken with that old grain of salt. I love the old pic Tony! When do we get one of the grandbaby on his!





Let's not turn this into a silly war ok?





EDITED: Shame on you Rebel. Let us not get personal and rude. This is a public forum and we are a family. We have agreed to not always agree but there is no call to be mean or rude.

Your(Rebel) quote: So maybe you are right... maybe your dad's horses should have been taken away.

Not nice not nice not nice....rebel.


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## minimomNC (Sep 6, 2005)

Actually if you read the ad for the miniature horse it states that in the price is included someone to help you learn about how to care for your new mini. And that the health papers and vaccinations are up to date, how many go through an auction with that much going for them? I don't think its a bad idea and if gets the breed out there for more to see and learn about then it may be worth it.

And as an Update since it was in a round about way brought up, the colt that our miniature horse club raffled off went to a member of the club who in turn gave him to a little girl and will continue to help his new owners learn more about him and how to make him a happy horse. He is going to be in a loving home for a very long time.


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## Dona (Sep 6, 2005)

RebelsHope said:


> How every you get your jollies Tony.
> 
> I have always been under the impression, from knowledgable people on this board as well as what the breed assoications say, minis are not meant to be ridden. I don't know how many times this subject has come up since I have been on here, but it has been more than once.  Oh and where was the word forbidden, I seem to recall that my words were.. shouldn't be...
> 
> ...









I'm sorry....but I think you may have "mis-understood" what some people meant when they said that Minis should not be ridden. There have been a few circumstances where photos have been posted of larger kids (sometimes adults) riding Minis. Several have posted at these times, that Minis should not be ridden. (by people too large for them....or riding immature Minis is also a nono!)

But....common sense should tell anyone with horse knowledge, that a Miniature is just a small horse. They can very safely carry weight appropriate for their size....and do in many cases. I know of someone who has a small boy who actually use to do barrels & roping from his Mini! It was so cute...and the boy was the perfect size for his little mount! Most of the time children small enough to ride minis are too young to know how to ride by themselves. But this little horse was very well trained.....and his little rider was as well! They were really impressive together!

Question....do you also think Minis are too "frail" to drive? One would think if you don't think Minis are capable of being ridden, you would think they shouldn't be driven either.

Minis often pull much more than their own weight when driven, for long periods of time.......and pound for pound, have been known to outpull much bigger Draft horses.


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## RebelsHope (Sep 6, 2005)

The mechanics for driving and riding are much different. Different parts of the body are used in different ways. Minis were bred to pull. Many pit ponies were actually miniature horses. In arecent article, one of the assn. was qutoed as saying that the do not support the ridding of minis. Unfortuanting for me I can not find that article at this moment to give you the detail.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Sep 6, 2005)

minimomNC said:


> And as an Update since it was in a round about way brought up,  the colt that our miniature horse club raffled off went to a member of the club who in turn gave him to a little girl and will continue to help his new owners learn more about him and how to make him a happy horse.  He is going to be in a loving home for a very long time.
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Dont get me wrong I think that raffling a mini "can"be a great idea for fundraising I was just using it as a comparision is all


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## runamuk (Sep 6, 2005)

Cute marketing...thought we were beyond this ....you used to be able to buy a llama from ll bean for about 10,000 then the market fell out









anywhow ruffntuff you raise a great point...my first pony when I was 8 was about 36-38 inches and a little butthead.....I rode him until my feet drug the ground



unless of course he had ditched my rear and headed for the hills.....everyone back then had an ornery shetland pony and few were bigger than 40 inches.

My 29-30 inch gelding has been ridden by my kids until they reached 50-60 lbs then they were cut off and funny he loved playing pony ride horse with them....he loved the attention and it never hurt him at all.......to this day he is my super reliable that I can use to introduce new people to not only miniatures but to horses in general.........

at that price I am assuming the person buying can take care of that mini more than likely they end up with it at a boarding stable possibly introducing more people to our breed...which in my opinion is a good thing


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## Tony (Sep 6, 2005)

When we have people come to our ranch wanting specifically a riding horse, I explain that we don't actually market our horses for riding because too often the purchasers fail to realize when their children have outgrown the horse. If their children are very small and they are a horse family, I will show them horses, but if their children are at the top end of the acceptable size/weight, I give them names of people in our area who specialize in larger horses and ponies and recommend that they investigate getting a Shetland or a B sized miniature, which we don't really deal in. That approach has worked very well for us for many years.

By the way, AMHA actually had lead-line classes at the National Show for a number of years, until some decided that they wanted to cut that part of the market, for the reasons that I wrote in the first paragraph. Of course we still have mounted riders in costume classes from time to time, and some very cute and appropriate entries, too.


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## Sue_C. (Sep 6, 2005)

I wanna just *see* someone _try_ to take my horses from me, for saddle-training, and allowing them to be ridden.








I know...the helmet should be on the young man riding the chestnut, Shooter, but a moment of laxness on my part...forever in print.








*This* picture of Dano, Abby and Zeemer, is my absolute favorite. The older sister leading the younger; is the young lady who helps out 'round my barn, takes driving lessons, and drivies some of my horses in competitions. What I love about this picture, is how Abby's back number is almost as big as she. The horse here is only a wee guy, and he had no problem at all carrying her.











Heck, I have saddle, AND harness trained horses for a lot less than $15,000!






Perhaps I should put my prices up?


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## Debby - LB (Sep 6, 2005)

I wonder where they got or are getting the little mini from? anybody know??

and if they have more than one order, what then?

Do one of you have a little herd of beautiful buckskin minis out there at your catalog distribution center...uh hm..farm? How neat!! Oh how fast that would have been on my wish list -heck that IS on my wish list! .......How 'bout that, too darn cute.


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## minimini (Sep 6, 2005)

N/A


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## Dona (Sep 6, 2005)

RebelsHope said:


> The mechanics for driving and riding are much different. Different parts of the body are used in different ways. Minis were bred to pull. Many pit ponies were actually miniature horses. In arecent article, one of the assn. was qutoed as saying that the do not support the ridding of minis. Unfortuanting for me I can not find that article at this moment to give you the detail.
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I read that somewhere recently too....and was very surprised when I saw it. Fact is...you will always be able to find a few people who feel this way. And it really irritates me when I see something like this in print, as there are always going to be inexperienced people who will believe it...just because they read it.



I know a LOT more people (experienced long-time breeders) who feel Minis CAN be ridden by children....than those who believe the opposite.

I believe the person who said that in the Assn article was just saying they do not "support" riding of Miniatures...probably so people (new to horses) wouldn't be tempted to allow thier over-sized children ride them.

"Quote: The mechanics for driving and riding are much different. Different parts of the body are used in different ways. Minis were bred to pull. Many pit ponies were actually miniature horses." 

So, are you saying that just because Miniatures were "bred to pull" (which I don't agree with BTW.) that somehow renders them unable to hold weight on their backs?



That must mean that Draft horses cannot be ridden, or Halflingers cannot be ridden, or Standardbreds cannot be ridden.





Any horse that is bred for driving or pulling....is also very capable of being ridden by size appropriate riders. Can you give me a good reason why you would think otherwise? I'm really at a loss here to understand why anyone would think that.

I don't believe Miniatures were "bred to pull" so they could be used in the coal mines anyway. They were used in the coal mines BECAUSE of their small size & natural "ability" to pull heavy loads. They were very compact & "heavy boned" in those days.


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## wildoak (Sep 6, 2005)

Very cute, and very responsible marketing in my opinion. What more could you ask than to have your new horse come with it's own professional for guidance?!

I agree it's unlikely to be a hot sales item at that price, but it sure might whet someone's appetite. I am very reluctant, as Tony said, to sell to folks who come looking for a riding horse unless they know what they are doing. However, there are lots of minis/ small ponies who have gone lots of miles carrying kids with no more ill effects than their bigger cousins carrying adults.

This is a topic for conversation, and surely not anything worth starting yet another nit picky debate on here about.





Jan


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## Dona (Sep 6, 2005)

Don't worry Jan...I'm done.





But this whole thread just brought back some childhood memories. A gentleman who lived about a mile down the road from me when I was a child, used to breed very small "Shetland" ponies. (would be considered Minis nowdays). He had a whole field full of them...all the same color...light sorrel with flaxen manes & tails, fat & roly-poly...very cute.

I just found out recently, when talking to a gal who knew this guy....that he was paid by Sears-Roebuck to breed these little ponies, which were sold in the catalog!





Does any other "oldies" besides me remember seeing any of those ads in the catalogs?


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## js1arab (Sep 6, 2005)

Well, I realize this post wasn't intended to be an arguement about riding, but I personally get tired of the no riding mentality. Many people tend to assume Arabs are too small and "frail" to be ridden hard. Heck, for several years the top endurance horses in the country were Arabs in the 14 hand range being ridden by riders over 200lbs. That's 20 plus percent of their body weight and they were doing this for hours a day over really rough terrain and hills and they were getting awards for being in the top condition. I feel minis tend to be the same way, they may look small and frail, but actually have strong dense bones and a compact back is always better in the long run for riding as a longer backed animal will be more prone to breakdown. Besides, most minis are ridden for short periods of time due to the attention span of the riders LOL





I think that marketing them for kids is fine as long as it is mentioned that they can and will be outgrown in a short time frame so the new owners don't over do things. It's much better than marketing them as littler trained house pets.

I want to edit this to add that I am not condemning anyone for not riding their minis, I just prefer mine to be rideable. It does no good to fight about this as neither way of thinking is going to change, I just get tired of being told we "shouldn't " ride the minis. I don't tell others they should ride, how to market, what color to breed etc. To each his own unless the animals are in danger.


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## shminifancier (Sep 6, 2005)

Cool



I have seen FEO Schwarz selling a Monopoly Board For One Million Dollars~!! Had in laid REAL diamonds and it comes with $30,000 IN REAL money~!! Now this is neat I have gotten that catalog for awhile but I have not received that issue... Neato~! Yes that place in a special room has Very expensive Items for the Very Rich kids... I know when they brought out the Monopoly set it was chained to an Armed Guard~!



Every now and then on The Travel Channel they will do specials on Toys for the Rich and Famous kids and sometimes even for the Rich and Famous Parents~! But this is good for marketing and such as that...For the Filthy Rich...Just like that show Filthy Rich Cattle Drive on the E cable channel....


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## Field-of-Dreams (Sep 6, 2005)

RebelsHope said:


> How every you get your jollies Tony.
> 
> I have always been under the impression, from knowledgable people on this board as well as what the breed assoications say, minis are not meant to be ridden. I don't know how many times this subject has come up since I have been on here, but it has been more than once.  Oh and where was the word forbidden, I seem to recall that my words were.. shouldn't be...
> 
> ...



Whoa, now, that wasn't very nice.... especially since Tony has been raising Miniature horses and small equines longer than many of us have been alive! I'm pretty sure he KNOWS what he is talking about.

My rule is if I can pick up a child with one arm, they can ride. I ain't THAT strong... and the minis don't mind. In fact, I had a neighbor's grandson sit on one of my broodmares yesterday. She had never had anything on her back, and she never flinched. Never moved. Didn't care.

Didn't hurt her, either.

Lucy


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## Miniv (Sep 6, 2005)

Yes, the muscles that minis use for pulling a cart versus riding are different. However, minis CAN be ridden by small children.

Once a miniature horse reaches maturity, it does not harm them to have a child within 40 pounds, up to 60 pounds depending on the height and build of the mini, on their backs.

I agree with Tony also that if their child is already getting close to the 40 to 60 lb mark, I would steer them in a different direction. I sure wouldn't want them to "out grow" and thus lose interest in my mini in a matter of a year or two!

It all really takes just a bit of basic common sense! And I think in the long run an ad like what is in the FAO Schwarz catalog is to our benefit.

MA


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## shminifancier (Sep 6, 2005)

It just depends on just how the mini is muscled and developed whether slim or real muscular you can't just label every mini and say they shouldn't be ridden..There are many different size ranches and body style and many things to make a Blanket statement like that. There is so many different body style some are certainly capable of having a very light wt. kid on there backs.. A well muscled well stocky built mini...After all there are lots of 36 37 38 inch that are still minis and can be ridden without any problem. and some smaller then that if well built and stocky of stature.


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## Relic (Sep 6, 2005)

My youngest daughter now 25 man time flies was brought up riding our minis till about age 5. The mares or stallions were not the refined ones like now a days and they were never the worse for wear she was also a very skinny kid. l have seen people put older 6/7 year old kids that were fat on short minis which l didn't feel was right and you could see it wasn't easy for the horse.


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## Cathy_H (Sep 6, 2005)

Well if they sell a lot of horses they are going to need a lot of knowledgable horse people to teach the buyers all about their new purchase...... Anyone need a job?.................................. BTW that is my 30 pound grand daughter on our 31 1/4 inch stallion.

Edited to add another picture - BTW the saddle was bought for our first grandchild after being born- ( in pic with Lee) but our daughter in law was skittish about the horses so now the granddaughters are enjoying it.


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## horsehug (Sep 6, 2005)

Cathy,

That picture is ADORABLE )))

Susan O.


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## Sun Runner Stables (Sep 7, 2005)

I am completly in agreement with Tony and Dona, and any auctual Horse person would be as well. (As proven by others statements.)

(* Horse person* A qualified individual who has had Years and Years of experience with either Big and/or Small horses and does not simply parrot back all the crap they read about animals they know nothing about.)

Many minis can, do, and will happily carry small children. Most without ever having been saddled before. If this isn't a breed for kids, then what the heck is it?? A real life Breyer Model Horse that you dare not play with least you scratch it??

Key word in all this is Small, and Weight Appropiate *child *on horse.

This is a Wonderful, Incredible, and Fantastic marketing idea. As Tony said, who could possibly afford This kind of coverage in all the right places... And we are getting it FOR FREE!!!!! Please those of you who are worried, check out the facts and bone density of the cannon bones vs. weight horse can carry, and realize that when handled apporpiatly, this is a Great and Good thing. Little Kids and their companions... It's like a fairy tale. Heck who Didn't want a pony at that age??


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## RENMACMINIS (Sep 7, 2005)

Darn.. so who wants to come and break the news to my two daughters they cant ride thier "ponies" anymore????? my oldest daughter is 7 only weighs 50 lbs and her "pony" is a 37" AMHR reg. mare.. who is very stocky and very built.. do i have problems on allowing her to ride ??? NOOOOOOO!! she only rides for short times the longes this mare has been ridden is in a parade that is only approx. 2 miles long.. the mare loves being ridden and loves my daughter.. my youngest daughter is 3 and only weighs approx. 30lbs and she rides a 34" mare. who is out of my oldest daughters mare. she is not as built as her mom but again she isnt rode for long periods of time except for the above mentioned parade and short trips around the yard and field. When the time comes she doesnt fit the mare she will graduate to the 37" tall mare.. and my daughter will then to to riding my TWH mare. Minis can be rode. a Mini stallion was my first "pony" I rode him till i outgrew him then he was sold on to another family for their child... I am all for Minis being rode. But they should be ridden by the appropriate sized child.


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## Miniv (Sep 7, 2005)

RENMACMINIS said:


> I am all for Minis being rode. But they should be ridden by the appropriate sized child.
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Exactly! Not sure what the all the snit is about here.....

If handled with common sense, the miniature horse is a wonderful introduction to riding for a small child!

MA


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## Black Magic (Sep 7, 2005)

I'm also looking for the snit....

We have a 36 in guy that is 325 lbs... and all three of our children ride him. Our ten year old son rides him without a saddle to avoid the extra weight, but we're still close to the 20% rule... maybe a few pounds over. Our guy is built like a draft horse, and cries when he can't come with me, when I'm riding the QH. This boy, if he knows someone is riding... he cries... throws himself down... rolls, cries and rolls again. People in the neighborhood know him, because when he cries, eveyone can hear him, and everyone knows, he wants to be ridden too... Lol... He's such a BIG BABY!...

Our two year old is very bright... a silver dapple, whose's about 30 inches. He noticed our five year old.. (very petite child at 37 lbs) was standing, legs spread... and he tried to run under her. Well, the next thing you know, she was sitting on him, and he was the happiest little mini you've ever seen. Our five year old, grabbed his mane and off he went to stand at the gate to go riding like the other two horses do...

I do understand people's concern about a mini being ridden by a child, who was over sized for the horse, with no one around that had a clue the child should have a hard hat on...

SAFETY for both the mini and the child would be my only issues...

God Bless,

Lynn W


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## Ashley (Sep 7, 2005)

Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt AMHR have a lead line class at nationals????

I have a gelding that is broke to ride. Granted he dont get road anymore due to a accident. But before then my nephews road him all the time. HE didnt care. He is only 31.5" tall.


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 7, 2005)

No I do not find this acceptable, nor do I find that people who pay big bucks look after their horses- not under these circumstances when the horse is bought and paid for over the internet and is delivered and presumably left, on it's own , in a possibly unacceptable place, with people who do not know how to care for it and quite probably have no intentions of learning. How many puppies and kittens are chucked out as soon as they pee on the carpet or stop being cute??? The mini in that picture is too small for the saddle, it would _just_ fit the little girl, NOW. Next week she may be too big- will Mama and Poppa stop her riding her expensive gift because she has had a growth spurt?? I don't think so!! I KNOW that when we sell we give up the right to interfere, which is why I do try to get the FIRST home absolutely right. At a guess these people are buying up or reserving horses that are what they say they are- saddle trained and quiet. They will NOT be paying $15,000.00 for them




That really is it. Are they matching the height to the weight of the child?? Do they take back the animal and rehome it when it is discarded?? Of course it was fine for Tony to ride that pony- you can see he fits it just fine and his parents were horses people who had raised a child who was not going to throw a hissy fit when they told him he was too big to ride it anymore. I've been through the same rigmarole. Child outgrew Miniature, child went on to 11.2 hh no argument. Child was not spoilt brat whose parents had spent $15,000.00 on an expensive toy for her!! I'm sure there are caring, loving people out there who are rich and will spend a lot (maybe not that much!!) on a Pony for their child- they will go to a reputable Farm and purchase one that comes with a buy back or rehome policy, not a catalogue. Bad, bad idea.

No problem with Minis being ridden - BUT we have seen the ads of them being abused by being ridden, do we really want to give the uneducated Public the idea that they can _all_ be ridden??


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## Dona (Sep 7, 2005)

There is ALWAYS going to be the potential for abuse....not matter who we sell our horses to. Unfortunately, once they are sold....we lose control over what happens to them.





If you remember....the ad in the catalog mentioned that the price included someone to HELP the new owners in how to properly care for their new Mini. I find that commendable.


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## Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too (Sep 7, 2005)

Had to ponder the merits of this one overnight and still have to go with my gut reaction that I don't think this will be the boon to the mini industry that some imagine. I think the thing that bothers me most is that a mini is essentially being advertised like any other toy, albeit a very expensive one. Kids are kids, rich or poor, and tend to lose interest in their toys pretty rapidly. The idea of an animal that can be ordered out of a catalog is as repugnant to me as the Christmas puppy. However, at $15,000, I doubt they will be flying off the shelves but I'm sure it won't have much impact on those (buyers or sellers) who consider animals just objects anyway.


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## Little Wee Horse Farm (Sep 7, 2005)

My thots.............

1.) Abuse can come from any income level. So can love & caring. Some very rich forget their pets as soon as they no longer please them. Some would spend their last penny to feed & protect them. The same goes for the very poor. And everyone in between. Same sentiments, same sides of the fence. Animals Cops TV show testifies to all.

2.) In the ad, I see a beautiful example of a miniature accompanied by a sweet-looking little girl. It uses all the "hot buttons" used in advertising to get you to want what is being sold. Advertisers hope it happens in EVERY item that is advertised. They pay big bucks to make sure. No matter if it's security systems or Hallmark cards. The idea of an ad is to get you to want whatever it is. That ad works.

3.) Perhaps it would, as is already suggested here, prompt people to go to their local mini breeder to learn something about them. Maybe just plant the seed that maybe someday................... Most folks in my area will never see an FAO Schwartz catalog. But they might hear about the beautifil mini from someone who has. And $15,000??? Not here, but they could be pleasantly surprised by the prices here compared to that.

4.) And it is a beautiful correct mini -- not a dwarf.

5.) Yes, the ad promotes riding & children. But, hey, I'm an ADULT and I want that little horse. Doesn't it make YOU want one? That's the idea. Nothing says it would only go to a family with children waiting to ride. The possibilities are there, but it could well be someone else who just wants it to love.

6.) I'm ok with riding minis -- but it's got to be the ones who are heavier built and definitely not the tinys. And the kids need to come off when they outgrow them. I've discouraged folks who want a mini for their kids to ride because we usually only sell foals & by the time it would be old enough to ride, the family's kids would be too big for it. I guide them elsewhere.

7.) Summation: I don't have a problem with the ad. That's JMHO.


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## js1arab (Sep 7, 2005)

Well, in one way I can see why the whole "catalog" thing bothers some, but really, it isn't a whole lot different than selling over the internet. I mean, I can try my best to be sure the horse is getting a great home, but there is no way I can drive to Canada to see if the home is really all that it was represented as. So far, all my horses but one have gotten excellent homes and the one that didn't was a very local sale. We had bought a pony the people lied to us about. They said he was only mildly foundered and he was very foundered. The feet looked ok, but he couldn't eat a thing we had here as our pasture and hay were both too rich and since we raise our own hay, it didn't make sense to buy it. We listed him and stated he would have to be dry lotted, the new owner said his niece was wanting a driving pony (we sold him with cart) and had a nice size dry lot. Oh the girl was going to be so happy, blah, blah blah. I won't even discuss the rest of the story. That all happened local. The person I bought from was two towns south of me and they lied to me about the pony's condition, the new buyer was three towns west of me and he lied about what he would do with the pony.

So just because the sale is local doesn't mean it will be magically great. I believed both of these people and yes, I do check out new homes a bit more carefully now and I have always tried to keep in touch, but rather than slam the catalog, maybe we could just suggest to them that they give some instruction on good choices for the animal if it is out grown or no longer being enjoyed. If the catalog would be willing to include info about Lil Beginnings then the new owners would know of some available options when the "fun" is over for them. I personally think that handled the right way, this could be a unique advertisement for all of us especially since the catalog claims to have someone who advises the new owners. Too bad kids don't come with one of those


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## razzy3d (Sep 7, 2005)

wholly cow, this is ridiculous. I will not stand for someone telling me what is and what is not appropriate for my horses. It's like children. I am a good parent, and I do not need anyone else to tell me that I am. HA! If someone pays $15,000 for an animal, for sure they are going to take care of it. Or pay someone to. Get over it!!!


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## Dandy (Sep 7, 2005)

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the ad. Come on, you have no guarantee when you sell a horse no matter how much research you might do. Might be the absolute best home, but doesn't mean he'll stay there. With any horse, you need to look at the weight/size of the rider whether it's a mini or another size horse. WE have a child at our local saddle club who rides a 36 inch mini in barrels, poles, buckaroo, and halter. The little girl is small (Ibelieve she is 5 years old). I think it could be a market for some of the older stocky style minis (if again, the child is the right size) My question is, though how do you saddle break one so small? I have a grand child due this month and my plan is to do leadline with one of my mares in the future. Would you use a mini saddle or a 12" pony saddle?


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## Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too (Sep 7, 2005)

Dandy said:


> Would you use a mini saddle or a 12" pony saddle?
> 463111[/snapback]
> ​


I think a pony saddle would be much too big unless you had a good sized B mini. My saddle is an 8" and fits my 32" minis just right, but it's hard to find a little kid who fits it. My 5 year old neighbor is not a big child for his age but he is almost too large for the saddle now. I think he will definately be too big by next show season


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## capall beag (Sep 7, 2005)

When I saw this ad I was not concerned about the little girl riding her BUT more about the contents of the ad.

I don't think any 'horse person' goes looking in a catalog like this to find a mini for their child.

This catalog, is appealing to affluent city type people with little knowledge of animals other than perhaps a house dog. Although the picture is very appealing I would worry about the horse being considered a toy.

I have first hand experience with this, I live in a fairly affluent town and many people want to "get one" of my little minis for their darlings! BUT they have no idea about how to take care of it!

Last year a lady who had called me over a dozen times about my little colt and she sounded like a great home, nice barn etc, lovely lady, nice kids etc!

When she came out to see him, I let him out in the field to run, she said "oh, they like to run??" Then I asked her if she would like to walk him, she said "Oh no, I don't think so!" She called me that night and said she felt foolish but she had not realised it was really a horse she had considered it to be more like a "toy" or a "Lawn ornament", she said she did not think they could handle him! He was a 5 month old 29" colt, gentle and sweet!!

So that would be my concern, if it were my horse, that non horsey people like how it looks but really have no idea that it is not "lawn ornament" and really does need to be cared for.

I just hate to see live animals sold as novelties, it does not normally end up well for the horse. IMO an animal that can live for 30 years should not be advertised as a fun novelty. Can you make money doing it, You betcha!!!


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Sep 7, 2005)

I keep hearing novelties and do understand but lets be honest.. this breed was started and grew due to the novelty are "rarity" of miniature horses


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## Ashley (Sep 7, 2005)

Honestly, do you even think anybody is gonna buy one from there???? I highly doubt it.


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## Hosscrazy (Sep 7, 2005)

> a mini is essentially being advertised like any other toy


I think that's the part that bothers me...

Trust me, I am all for publicity and promoting the miniature breed. And, I would be thrilled if I could sell one of my horses for $15,000!

I just do not think that a* toy *catalog is the proper forum for promoting a horse.


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## jlh (Sep 7, 2005)

I only see one thing glaringly wrong with the ad - and maybe it can be corrected for next year.

For $15K, I'd want to see the mini with show harness and a nice easy entry or meadowbrook-style cart, exhibiting how it could be fun for the whole family!


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 7, 2005)

Some very interesting statements made here in regards to whether an ad in a catalog will benefit the mini horse industry or not. Being one to look at both sides of the coin, I really can't see it being a plus for marketing minis to the average buyer. The average person just won't pay $15,000.00 for a mini for their child and if they think that it is going to cost them that much they may just say...that is ridiculous and never even consider a miniature horse even at a later date. Personally, I would rather see better ways of advertising minis than in a catolog. if they have to be advertised. What that ad could do is get even more people interested in breeding, with only seeing what big bucks they could make from them......well this road has already been traveled as we can see.



But, as has been stated enough times this week, everyone should be allowed to do what they want.



Mary


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## shminifancier (Sep 7, 2005)

Ashley said:


> Honestly, do you even think anybody is gonna buy one from there????  I highly doubt it.
> 463145[/snapback]
> ​


Oh Yes I do..That store is very exclusive for very expensive items for Both adult and children but mostly the children of rich parents.. And I mean Rich and famous here...Why else would that Store,, FAO Schwarz have in Stock, a One Million Dollar Monopoly Set~! They Must be selling them to somebody??? So what is a $15,000 mini? Chicken feed to some of those kind of people



Pocket change at that~!


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## littlearab (Sep 7, 2005)

I'm with Tony on this. Nothing wrong as far as I can see. Thye send a por to tell them how to care for it..WOW! Isn't that waht we all keep saying??? They should come with instuctions?





But really i do not see what the big deal is....


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## Dorrie & Frank (Sep 7, 2005)

Tony is absolutely right! This is great! Every little kid who sees the catalogue will want one - get your pictures ready guys!


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## Karin - NaKar Miniatures (Sep 7, 2005)

I am curious as to who their supplier would be.



Someone must have approached them about selling these minis in the catalog.


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## Tommy (Sep 7, 2005)

What a GREAT marketing approach.











With having children of appropriate size to ride this miniature, this should not pose any problem at all. I could see there being a marketeer purchasing one for part of their sales presentations and letting the tiny tots sit on the miniature. Again, if the size is appropriate.

This is a great lead in for getting visibility to the miniature market itself also.

If an individual does buy one, once their child grows too large to ride this horse, they have a wonderful pet and all the tack for walking him in parades or other festivals. Not to mention that as the child grows beyond the tiny tot size, it will be time to get him/her a larger pony and so on.....

I like it.











Tommy


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## Bess Kelly (Sep 7, 2005)

My children both had ponies. These ponies were NO BIGGER than some of my minis and were ridden far more than many have suggested here




My son didn't outgrow his mini due to his size, but the introduction of little motorbikes!





Never a problem with those animals. And, I'm looking forward to having my grandaughter begin riding some of my minis very soon



Heck, I've got a couple back there that could carry ME, if bareback





Added: the one in my avatar is only 31" and that's me next to him. I'd have no issues with hoping on a 36-38" B mare



But then, I'm not going on a cross-country jaunt. These guys, matured, are tough little beggers.


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## TLCminis (Sep 7, 2005)

Obviously, we TOTALLY agree with Tony Greaves and the others who see no fault in children riding the miniatures as long as common sense is used as to the weight of the child and the build of the horse. Buttons has been ridden at one time or another by most of our grandchildren, not to mention the HUNDREDS of Pony Parties we've hosted and he is certainly one of the least abused or misused horses that ever lived! Bravo to the person who thought of this wonderful publicity for our little horses!! I hope they get their price and the precious little horse gets a wonderful, loving & pampered home!!

Leslie Cunningham

TLC Miniature Horse Farm


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## Hosscrazy (Sep 7, 2005)

I think there's been some VERY interesting discussion here, and some very good points brought up...but...I still don't like that live horses are being advertised in a "toy" catalog!!!!


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## susanne (Sep 7, 2005)

> Added: the one in my avatar is only 31" and that's me next to him. I'd have no issues with hoping on a 36-38" B mare


Cool, Bess, does that mean I could ride Mingus? Just kidding! He's very refined and I'm...uhhh...not. Darn.

I think common sense tells us that some minis are just fine for riding (at least with small children) and others are not. If I only could have had such a pony when I was little (and I was really little back then!)

I'm not sure how much this will realistically promote the breed, but I think they've taken a fairly responsible approach by not suggesting that they're dogs or house pets, by sending an advisor, and by recommending that the prospective buyer check with local ordinances.

The problem I see is from both buyer and seller's perspective -- no chance to see how the child and horse get along or to pick just the right horse. Even a mini can take advantage of too meek of a child.


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## susanne (Sep 7, 2005)

By the way...Mingus would like nothing more than to have his own little girl...do you suppose FAO Schwartz would have one of those that I could buy for him?


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## Hosscrazy (Sep 7, 2005)

I think for $15,000 Mingus can have ANYTHING his little heart desires!!!


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## susanne (Sep 7, 2005)

I hear you can pick one up for about $50 at auction...

Oh, shame on me! That's terrible...but I couldn't resist!

(Good thing you guys all know I'm kidding!)


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## jlh (Sep 7, 2005)

Re: I hear you can pick one up for about $50 at auction...

yeah, but you have to be careful, at that price the kid'll probably be wormy and will need all there shots.


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## susanne (Sep 7, 2005)

Spppffffsssshhh!!!

That's the sound of me spitting my coffee all over the monitor and keyboard...

Johnice, you are worse than I am!


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## runamuk (Sep 7, 2005)

OK does mingus want to go to all the trouble of becoming a licensed foster home and matching a little girl only to have the state decide at last minute not to let him adopt.......or mingus has 30,000 to 50,000 lying around to adopt from russia or china etc......

If mingus needs any references I'd be honored to give him one


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## jlh (Sep 7, 2005)

susanne said:


> Spppffffsssshhh!!!
> That's the sound of me spitting my coffee all over the monitor and keyboard...
> 
> Johnice, you are worse than I am!
> ...


yeah, probably, but then again, I didn't have anything to drink when I read your comment, so my screen is clean.

not a bad idea tho, come to think of it. I'm sure there's plenty of us who sometimes thought they've had a kid adopt them for at least a little while.


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## TLCminis (Sep 8, 2005)

Just wanted to make one more point... those criticizing the person who got their horse into the catalog.... that is BY FAR better advertisement and better publicity for the minis than those who take their horses to flea markets to sell. Those little horses leave with anybody who has the cash and with no assurance whatsoever that they'll even go to a home with the basics needed for their care. THOSE are the people who deserve the criticism.

Leslie


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## tracerace (Sep 9, 2005)

I know I'm late on this, but I wanted to say that the mini in the catalogue was sold. It was one of their "one and only" items that get the attention of the rich clientelle (and this board , just like the $1million dollar monopoly board.


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## Getitia (Sep 9, 2005)

Interesting................

Pictured is our son riding Panda his wonderful pony - they grew up together and created some wonderful memories - they were many times walk trot State Champion (she could have been a hardshipped in as a B mini - we just didn't know back in " those days" about miniatures



) - our son "sadly" outgrew Panda - who then found a wonderful home with a Senator's Daughter in DC and she repeated the cycle again.






I had forgot to add and this is significant given the reason for the initial post - Panda was our Son's Christmas present when he was 5 years old- She was not viewed as a Toy, was not discarded and was his most cherished gift of all - and taught him more about responsibility than any toy/gift he received in his entire life:yes:

I also personally received a horse one year for christmas - it was certainly my favorite gift of all time......maybe what today's children need are more small equine to love and enjoy and less computer games....................jmho

So yes, I do bet that "regardless of the time of year received" some individuals soon loose interest in their gift - be it a dog, horse, or ????........but then for others it becomes a life long "love affair".............................oh, and Tony - adorable photo





Okay - off to the Nationals! Now why oh why did my father purchase me that horse back in the early 60s.........just look at me now - addicted (thanks Dad)


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## Mercysmom (Sep 9, 2005)

Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis said:


> Awwww a little tony how very cute what a great pic...Just out of curiosity.. how many of you rode little shetlands as kids I know I had one really he was the same size as some of my minis are now
> 
> Now that said the build and size of both mini and child should be taken into consideration
> 
> ...


My first pony I rode was a Shetland who could have doubled as a B mini. I have two minis broke to ride and they enjoy when the saddle comes out and they are very patient with their little riders. There have been nightmarish videos of overweight adults getting on large horses and the horses staggering...if the kid is appropriate in size for the horse he's riding I say it is OK.

While Tony's points are good (I got to think a bit more after reading this thread), I don't know if I necessarily agree with marketing a mini like this, as original as it is (which beats the work I am going through to try to sell a horse right now) and how envious I am of the price he sold at. HOWEVER, in the ad, it does say a trained specialist comes with the mini and if someone was a newbie, they would have the services of someone experienced to help. Wonder what the return policy is?! And the photo is cute... and can be applauded as it is not a dwarf and is appropriate for the little girl pictured... however again, as a former riding instructor, I hope the parents get the trained specialist to give the kid proper lessons with appropriate safety gear for the kid's noggin as kids do fall and can get hurt around horses of any size.

Something like a "trained specialist" to accompany a new RV owner might have helped the poor woman who, while driving her RV, put it in "cruise control" mode, thinking it was the same as "autopilot" and she went back into the kitchen to get a snack. The RV went off the road and rolled and was totalled. She survived to sue someone as it was not explained to her that cruise control means you have to be in the driver's seat. A trained specialist might help in preventing litigation cases.

Guess there will be many views on this as there are stars in the sky. I better go get my cup of coffee!

Just my 2 cents... enjoy! Tony, I liked your picture on your pony!





Denise

Silversong Farm


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## mizbeth (Sep 9, 2005)

I loved Tonys' picture too!

Looks just like him except the hair color has changed!


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## _minihorses4ever_ (Sep 9, 2005)

I just had to add my two cents.





I agree, it will be good for the industry.

Maybe will boost us breeders sales

Surely get them more regocnized

BUT ( I know you saw that coming



)

I hope minis don't go into the wrong hands, or them start being way over populated! I also don't really like the fact that they are referred to as a toy. They aren't a toy, they are a HUGE repsonabilty! I just don't want to see people that don't do their research and just go and buy one, and them not relizing that they are STILL HORSES no matter what their size.


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## Hosscrazy (Sep 9, 2005)

> I also don't really like the fact that they are referred to as a toy.


Phew!!!! My point exactly!!!


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## REO (Sep 9, 2005)

My hubby just told me a lady called today saying she wanted one of our minis to put in a catalog! He said he can't remember the name, but he told her to talk to me (call back) Now I'm wondering who it was!





I asked him if she said FAO schwartz and he said no. *shrug*


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## CountryHaven (Sep 9, 2005)

REO said:


> My hubby just told me a lady called today saying she wanted one of our minis to put in a catalog! He said he can't remember the name, but he told her to talk to me (call back) Now I'm wondering who it was!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe Nieman Marcus decided not to be outdone!


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## CountryHaven (Sep 9, 2005)

Susane, I sure wish I'd known... Mingus could have had one of mine... and I would have paid YOU $50.00 (of course, at the time they were teenagers, so Mingus probably wouldn't have been interested anyway).

Also, not a single one of my broodmares hasn't carried my grandkids around, very happily, and I can't wait until next year when the older one (will be 4) gets to go to a few shows with us and do costume and leadline.

As for the 'toy' connection... some people (outsiders probably) would consider our minis as not much more than our 'toys'... more or less it's a matter of semantics. As I said in a different post on this, I remember some (many) years back when SharPei's were 'new' here, Nieman Marcus had one in their X-mas catalog.


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## qtrrae (Sep 9, 2005)

Well, whether it is right or not - doesn't matter - we will always have a difference of opinions!

BUT I will say this - that little girl with the mini is adorable!! And Tony sooooo are YOU!!!!


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## horsehug (Sep 9, 2005)

Qtrrae,

I loved your post! I totally agree! )))

Susan O.


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## Tony (Sep 9, 2005)

qtrrae said:


> BUT I will say this - that little girl with the mini is adorable!! And Tony sooooo are YOU!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. I think that the word should be "sooooo WERE"...


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## Mercysmom (Sep 10, 2005)

Ashley said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but doesnt AMHR have a lead line class at nationals????
> 
> I have a gelding that is broke to ride. Granted he dont get road anymore due to a accident. But before then my nephews road him all the time. HE didnt care. He is only 31.5" tall.
> 
> ...


Yes, they do and the 4H group that leased two of my horses this summer had kids that did the Leadline class that was offered at our local AMHR shows and they had a blast.

Still, some mini people tried to tell me one little girl was "too big". In whose eyes? She met the rule requirements on age, steward and judge approval while in the ring, fit the mini beautifully and what a nice way to get started in minis with a blue ribbon. The little girl is hooked on showing and can't wait for next year, even though she will be too *old* for the Leadline class.

BTW - loved Sue C's pics, too!

Denise

Silversong Farm


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