# G & S carts?



## ClickMini (Jan 28, 2011)

I tried doing a search, but because the term G&S or G & S will not return results due to incorrect # of characters, I decided I had to post a new post.

I am looking at getting a new cart for Combined Driving for my 33-34" guys. That means it has got to have the non-pnuematic wheels. In my searching around, I came across this one...do any of you have one? Like it? Is it comfortable for you? Adjustable for your horse? Light weight???

I am also looking at the Bellcrown MiniCrown. Hoping the shipping isn't TOO prohibitive on that one! We shall see. I am waiting for a call back.


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## Sue_C. (Jan 28, 2011)

G & S Carts I typed out a nice LONG post, but it totally disappeared, hate it when that happens...if you want to know more, just PM me. Changes I had made, the shafts wider at the tugs to allow for buckle in traces, and opted for the 24" pony wheels.


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## KellyAlaska (Jan 28, 2011)

Sue_C. said:


> G & S Carts I typed out a nice LONG post, but it totally disappeared, hate it when that happens...if you want to know more, just PM me. Changes I had made, the shafts wider at the tugs to allow for buckle in traces, and opted for the 24" pony wheels.


I would love to hear more details about your G & S cart. I also am trying to decide between the G & S trail cart and the Mini Crown so any details would be very helpful. I am new to the forum so I am not sure what PM means.

Thanks,

Kelly


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## Knottymare (Jan 28, 2011)

Love the idea of a trail cart. What makes the cart a trail cart beside the steel wheels? I am looking forward to training my mare to do trails and will be looking for a cart to take on the local trails.


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## Elizabeth Pannill (Jan 28, 2011)

I have seen a GS mini cart with coil springs /pneumatic wheels. It was very nice compared to most other metal pipe easy entry carts I have seen. The trail cart made by GS has metal wheels but with coil springs I would think the ride would be rough ....a lot rougher than with the Bell Crown for sure. I would choose a Bell Crown or a Smart Cart if your budget allows.


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## Shari (Jan 29, 2011)

I would say the Bellcrown MiniCrown suspension would be easier on ones back.

Coil springs are not.


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## rubyviewminis (Jan 29, 2011)

I am still trying to learn about carriages, sizes, etc. also. I have been looking at various trail carts, in particular the Pacific Smart Cart, the G & S, and now the Bellcrown Minicrown. I probably know why, but wanted to ask for sure why some of you choose the size of wheel you do. And what options for your carts do you have, and what options do you wish you had. I have a 33" mare I will be driving next year and my soon-to-be 2 year old gelding is still only 28" and not looking like he will go much past that. I wanted to have him trained to driving in the future also. These carts are suited for the two sizes of minis I plan on driving aren't they? I have seen very little minis driving with what looks like the same size cart and shafts.

Just thought the original op or others might also wonder the same things I do, experienced in horses, minis, long-lining, but no driving experiience yet.


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## RhineStone (Jan 29, 2011)

rubyviewminis said:


> why some of you choose the size of wheel you do.


The larger the wheel, the easier it is for the horse to pull especially on rough ground. Think of pushing a wheelbarrow over a 4" rock. If you have a small diameter wheel, it will take a lot more effort to get over that rock than a larger diameter wheel. The problem with larger wheels with minis though is that the wheel itself is heavier. That is why smaller wheels are popular in the show ring, but they are not practical on the trail.

Here is what can happen to a pneumatic wheel on the trail.







This is also why pneumatics and especially wire spokes are not allowed in CDEs above training level. Steel and wooden wheels are much more appropriate for trail driving.

Myrna


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## Sandee (Jan 29, 2011)

KellyAlaska said:


> "Posted Yesterday, 08:58 PM Sue_C., on 28 January 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:
> 
> G & S Carts I typed out a nice LONG post, but it totally disappeared, hate it when that happens...if you want to know more, just PM me. Changes I had made, the shafts wider at the tugs to allow for buckle in traces, and opted for the 24" pony wheels."
> 
> ...



To answer you, Kelly. In the original quote there is a link. Put the cursor over the words G&S Carts and it will take you to more information on them. As for a "PM", that means Personal Message. You click on the person's name; it takes you to their profile page and there you can click on PM which is the forum's version of email.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 29, 2011)

Scooter, Amy, keep telling yourself "Scooter!"







KellyAlaska said:


> I am new to the forum so I am not sure what PM means.


PM means Private Message. You can click on a person's forum name and it will give you options including emailing them or sending them a private message.



It looks just like a forum thread but it's only between the two of you.



Knottymare said:



> Love the idea of a trail cart. What makes the cart a trail cart beside the steel wheels?


The same things that make a trail saddle- comfort and safety.



A show cart is designed to be pulled on a level surface in good footing and so doesn't really have any suspension, often doesn't have footman's loops for breeching to attach to, and with anything but minis you can't see over your horse's rump.



I would NOT want to take a jog cart on the trails with a QH!

For me a trail cart is one I can be reasonable comfortable in and don't mind getting beaten up. Lots of trees and brush and mud on our NW trails!



I use my Frontier easy entry as it's lighter than most of my other carts, I don't care about the paint job and it's got plenty of room for me to carry my stuff. I also have a young back though so don't mind the rough ride from the coil springs and I'm tiny enough that I have plenty of leg room. If it's going to be just me and my horse, no possibility of passengers, my absolute favorite trail cart is the Graham Carriage Works _Hyperbike_. It's light, simple, specifically designed for driving over rough trails, built like a tank and the horses love it.





For most people the factors to be considered would be suspension, ergonomics for the individual driver, draft angle (do the traces run horizontal or down toward the horse's hocks for better pulling?), balance, stability and maybe weight. That's an entire thread on its own and then some! People end up with the really expensive CDE carts for trail driving because they are designed with all those factors in mind.



rubyviewminis said:


> I probably know why, but wanted to ask for sure why some of you choose the size of wheel you do. And what options for your carts do you have, and what options do you wish you had. I have a 33" mare I will be driving next year and my soon-to-be 2 year old gelding is still only 28" and not looking like he will go much past that. I wanted to have him trained to driving in the future also. These carts are suited for the two sizes of minis I plan on driving aren't they? I have seen very little minis driving with what looks like the same size cart and shafts.


The size of wheel is dictated by the size of horse and the style of the cart. In a cart where the axle runs higher under the seat you can have a bigger wheel and still have the shafts sitting at the correct angle to the horse whereas in something like an easy entry where the axle runs below the footboards, you're limited in the size of wheel you can have. The rule is generally to get the biggest wheel you can for the reasons Myrna mentioned without raising the shafts too high for the horse.

It's going to be difficult for you to drive both your horses to the same cart without some modifications. A 28" horse often needs shorter than average shafts, no more than 20" wheels on most carts, etc., while your bigger girl would do just fine with any of the carts mentioned. The most adjustable one is the Smart Cart and I've seen little guys pulling them and doing just fine but they've taken in the shafts and lowered the entire cart to get the same look. Not every little guy will be able to handle that sort of weight. If you can't buy separate carts for the two horses (and I'd recommend it as then you can take them both driving!



) you'll probably have to buy one to suit the little guy then get longer/wider shafts for your 33" girl. The only trail cart I know that could easily switch between both horses without tools is the Hyperbike.







RhineStone said:


> Here is what can happen to a pneumatic wheel on the trail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks from the tree limb like that cart took quite a beating before the wheel failed!



I use pneumatic tires with wire spokes for trail driving, I'm just very careful and aware that if they fail I'm screwed.



No-Flat inserts of some kind are almost a necessity to go anywhere and if I was going to be out all day far from home I would definitely prefer steel wheels but the pneumatics are okay for driving around the neighborhood and local walking trails. My rule is I will take them anywhere I wouldn't mind walking home from.

If you do use pneumatics without inserts, bring a bicycle pump and patching kit. And for God's sake, unhitch the horse before attempting to pump up the tire! Even bomb-proof horses may react to the sound of a pump going behind their blinders and a runaway with a flat tire is not a pretty sight.



Trust me on this and be safe, not sorry.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Jan 29, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> It looks from the tree limb like that cart took quite a beating before the wheel failed!


I had never looked at that photo close enough to notice a tree limb! I figured it was part of a homemade cart. (I was more concerned about the wheel.) The photo was sent to me, so I don't know the circumstances surrounding it, but I do know that it happened on a Competitive Distance Drive. Now that club has rules against pneumatics as well. I wonder if that limb was inserted to be able to carry the cart back to the trailer. From what I was told, the wheel started to disintegrate in the middle of the drive. I don't think the mud helped. I don't remember being told of any wreck associated with it.

Myrna


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## susanne (Jan 29, 2011)

Another thing to consider regarding pneumatics versus steels on the trails:

Steel wheels would be quite UNwelcome on many dirt trails, especially those intended for multiple use.

When we drove in one of our state parks (designed specifically for horses, hikers, and bicyclists), the park rangers were concerned about ruts created by carriage/cart wheels. They were won over in part due to my bay ambassador (kissing the rangers worked for Mingus), but also by the pneumatic tires on our CTM. Their concern was that the narrow steel wheels would be more likely to cut ruts into dirt trails. Gravel and paved trails aren't an isisue for either style wheel.

I would not even consider steel wheels on the beach.

We don't treat the trails like a CDE marathon course, so I don't foresee any runins with trees or other immovable objects. I did drive over a 6" high stump of a very small tree and hit a railroad tie while driving in my sister's woods -- no harm, no foul.

I should mention, however, that I would not drive anywhere without No Mor Tlats innertubes. I would also make certain the wheels have wider hubs for greater stability. Previously, that was the Achilles heel of the CTM carts, but now they have switched to the wider hub.

I love the looks of the G & S cart and the option of the steel wheels, but just because they call it a trail cart doesn't mean other EE carts (such as Frontier or CTM) are not appropriate.

As for springs, my back causes me constant pain, but honestly, coil springs don't bother me. Granted, I haven't used a Smart Cart, Bellcrown or anything with true suspension, so I have little to compare it to. I did do a schooling CDE in an old show cart with a slick wooden seat and NO springs...hehe...THAT was painful! For the second day I borrowed a HyperBike for marathon.


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## Sue_C. (Jan 29, 2011)

> I wonder if that limb was inserted to be able to carry the cart back to the trailer


I think the same thing...that is the way they are carrying it.


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## Minimor (Jan 30, 2011)

> Their concern was that the narrow steel wheels would be more likely to cut ruts into dirt trails. Gravel and paved trails aren't an isisue for either style wheel.


Susanne, steel wheels aren't necessarily any narrower than the pneumatic tires? I'm thinking that my Smart Cart wheels would be the same width as the pneumatic tires on my CTM cart. They look about the same anyway. I don't find that the Smart Cart wheels cut into the dirt on the trails. I haven't driven either cart in mud nor in loose sand so can't say how they compare there.


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## Shari (Jan 30, 2011)

Doing all of my driving on trails and I use my Wooden wheels more often than not. They do not cut into the ground any more than my pneumatic tires, in fact on some types of soil you can't even see my Wooden wheel tire tracks.

But you are right, I won't use the Wooden wheels in loose sand or heavy mud.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 30, 2011)

Sue_C. said:


> I think the same thing...that is the way they are carrying it.


That makes sense.



Minimor said:


> Susanne, steel wheels aren't necessarily any narrower than the pneumatic tires? I'm thinking that my Smart Cart wheels would be the same width as the pneumatic tires on my CTM cart. They look about the same anyway.


Ditto on the Bellcrown...one of the reasons I bought it was how wide the wheel rubber was! I've driven mine on the beach and in other deep sand and it actually handled pretty well. The main problem was the extra weight in such deep footing compared to say the Hyperbike I usually go beach driving with. It wallowed but did not sink in.

Leia


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## terrid (Jan 30, 2011)

I have a G & S cart and I use it for both my minis, they are 35 & 36 inches. I like it but didn't realize how much till I used my frontier cart one weekend and it beat my poor rear end up, so yes this cart is much more comfortable. Here's my two, first one is 35" on a poker ride with my bored granddaughter and the second one is my 36" guy at our first fun marathon at Little Everglades Steeplechase, he's only been driving about 6 months and was awesome. The basket under the seat my husband made and it comes in so much, I love it.


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## CZP1 (Jan 30, 2011)

Terrid I love the comment about your "bored granddaughter" that is very funny!


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## studiowvw (Jan 30, 2011)

CZP1 said:


> Terrid I love the comment about your "bored granddaughter" that is very funny!


Yes, don't we all wish we'd had a grandmother who was into horses when we were young???

None of my nieces or nephew is much interested at all. Maybe one could be coaxed, but nobody's horse crazy like I and my sister were.


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## terrid (Jan 30, 2011)

She actually said she was bored. She doesn't really care for them, but I do have another granddaughter that is 3 and loves to go. At New Years we were camping and she stayed overnight and went driving with us and after awhile she asked to drive, so I let her, she didn't do to bad and even helped unhithch when we got back. When we drive we talk about the flowers, pinecones and even how thick the sand is. She is trully amazing.


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## susanne (Jan 30, 2011)

This is not my opinion -- it is that of the park rangers. I'm just repeating their concern and assuming that others may well run into something similar.

Perception is often more important than reality -- in our case, correct or not, their perceptions would have kept us off the trails at that particular park.


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## ClickMini (Jan 30, 2011)

TerriD, that looks really nice. Does anyone have one of these with both the pneumatic and the steel wheels that they can change out? How much does it weigh?

Right now, I may be hanging on to my Runabout a while longer, as it appears I may need surgery for my knee now, due to badly tearing my medial collateral ligament because I had the stupid walking cast on and slipped on ice on New Year's Eve day. I am very depressed about it.






I actually think my Runabout is pretty comfortable, but so far, I haven't been able to find anyone to make the steel wheels for it, for CDEs.


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## Sue_C. (Jan 30, 2011)

> Does anyone have one of these with both the pneumatic and the steel wheels that they can change out? How much does it weigh?


I have both, and whereas they don't have a fancy hub, (too bad LOL) they switch over very quickly. As for the weight, I am not sure, but I would say less than 100 pounds, as I have lifted it into the back of my trailer by myself.


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## rcfarm (Feb 2, 2011)

I just bought a G&S cart. I havent recieved yet. I wanted the regular tires, and had 24" wheels put on. I have a Smart Cart, but wanted something to take on trails. Our area has alot on sugar sand, easier to pull thru than the steel.

Good luck in your choice.


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## Carriage (Feb 2, 2011)

susanne said:


> Another thing to consider regarding pneumatics versus steels on the trails:
> 
> Steel wheels would be quite UNwelcome on many dirt trails, especially those intended for multiple use.
> 
> ...


There is much to what Miss Susanne has said. We learned years ago to build the cart around and integral TO the wheel.

The wheel is the heart of the cart. Going through the "what if this happens" exercises is a big part of the design process.

Also and as an aside, properly constructed and MAINTAINED pneumatic wheels do not as a general rule blow-up or taco as is commonly held. They just don't, period. Before you counter this read all of the words in the previous sentences. I heard an ADS member at a meeting a couple of years ago state this as fact and it was all I could do to keep my yap shut. The issue is proper construction of the wheel for both the rig and terrain for driving and then, maintenance. The wheel previously shown was a welded hub wheel common to the industry. Had spokes loosened or stretched in this wheel prior to taco-ing? If so the wheel should have been replaced prior to damage. I know this wheel well and had used it for many years with only two taco's One event, I really don't know the details about but the second one I do. The owner ended up dropping the 110 lb rig on a tire edge from truck bed height. Yes this will cause even a competent wheel to taco. As to blow-outs, I personally know of none( for my own). This is because even within the wheel you need to choose components that are matched and work well together. As we focus on trail driving as our primary venue we build to that standard.

Now on with the other details,

Flotation on a specific substance, in general, is a matter of tire width and gross vehicle weight and it changes depending on the substrate one is driving on. There are other issues of lesser importance but in general it is width/weight/substrate. As we have been demonstrating for years now wider is better. We chose as our main tire a very wide tire with a flat surface on purpose as this will give us the best flotation on the most substrates including beach sand. Not just the tide mark sand, but the dry loose sand farther away from the water.

Depending on the substrate any rig will cut into the ground. The trick is to lessen this to the greatest degree possible. Cutting in means drag and greater effort for the horse. I would try to minimize this to the greatest degree possible.

Wider hubs are preferred as they generally provide better triangulation geometry that will prevent taco-ing. Ie. its a stronger wheel laterally. The few wheel failures we have had over the years are generally hub failures and especially with our composite wheel. These are lateral load failures. Lateral loading is a primary design aspect that should be considered in wheel design.

Looks like G&S is paying attention to the afore-mentioned design aspects.

As to "springs", we have taken two approaches over the years. Both are integral design features. One is an "add-on" that is purpose built. The other is to turn the entire rig into a spring. So you see, you were driving a rig with "springs".

Susanne, a 6 inch stump ain't nuthin. The RR tie had to be at least 8 inches if not more. Had there been a problem with these little objects, I would have been tempted to close my doors out of shame at my incompetence....

Just .02 from me and the crickets....





Bb

Graham Carriage Works

www.grahamcarriageworks.com


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## susanne (Feb 2, 2011)

Bob, just to clarify...the stump and railroad tie incidents were with the easy entry on a previous drive last summer. I know the HyperBike would have no problem with such minor obstacles -- I was just surprised that the EE handled it so well..

(This does, however, remind me that I have a post to write regarding Mingus, the HyperBike, and freezing our, uh, fingers off)

Since Mingus is totally comfortable with bicycles (even silent ones coming from behind), I plan to drive him in the HyperBike while Keith rides his mountain bike out on the logging roads and backwoods trails up in our hills (we can re-write Sondheim's musical, Into the Woods...). Once we get boots for the princess, I cannot wait to try our back country trails with my little rocket horse and the 'Bike!!


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## Shari (Feb 2, 2011)

You got a Hyper bike Susanne?!!!! Did I miss the pictures? Lucky you!

Really want to get a Hyperbike for Maggie, before I move to VA... when ever that happens.


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## RhineStone (Feb 2, 2011)

Carriage said:


> Also and as an aside, properly constructed and MAINTAINED pneumatic wheels do not as a general rule blow-up or taco as is commonly held. They just don't, period. Before you counter this read all of the words in the previous sentences. I heard an ADS member at a meeting a couple of years ago state this as fact and it was all I could do to keep my yap shut. The issue is proper construction of the wheel for both the rig and terrain for driving and then, maintenance.


HOWEVER, how many drivers of cheaply constructed vehicles actually do ANYTHING to maintain them other than say, wash them? (I'm not saying anything in regards to the Hyperbike, but more so the popular cheaply constructed Easy Entry vehicles.) There is something to be said for spending some $$$$ on a vehicle. Then you ARE more likely to maintain it because you know that it would be a headache and pocketbook ache to replace it.

We had one crummy pony pipe cart here that we bought at an auction for $25 when we were still in college. We were going to cut it down for a mini cart (before we knew any better). That cart spent it's life in an outdoor shed while since then, the "good" wooden vehicles have been pampered.

Sometimes it is just simply the lack of knowledge that leads to the lack of maintenance. Regardless, once you know better, you do better, especially if it means getting the right equipment for the job.

Myrna


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## Carriage (Feb 3, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> HOWEVER, how many drivers of cheaply constructed vehicles actually do ANYTHING to maintain them other than say, wash them? (I'm not saying anything in regards to the Hyperbike, but more so the popular cheaply constructed Easy Entry vehicles.) There is something to be said for spending some $$$$ on a vehicle. Then you ARE more likely to maintain it because you know that it would be a headache and pocketbook ache to replace it.
> 
> We had one crummy pony pipe cart here that we bought at an auction for $25 when we were still in college. We were going to cut it down for a mini cart (before we knew any better). That cart spent it's life in an outdoor shed while since then, the "good" wooden vehicles have been pampered.
> 
> ...


Well lets separate the "cheaply or crummy constructed cart" from the topic of maintenance as to some extent it can be irrelevant to the topic of maintenance.

New drivers entering the scene most often will choose a less expensive vehicle to get their feet wet and to see if this is for them. I understand and condone this practice. As their knowledge base grows they may choose to move up to what we would consider to be better constructed vehicles. Whatever they choose to drive, their early schooling in maintenance and basic troubleshooting is essential. Trainers are already training, this should be included in their curriculum. Perhaps a cart/gear maintenance "day" should be part of a clubs events......

You're being trained to drive therefore you need to train in taking care of your gear. Taking care of your gear ALWAYS should come first and certainly before your comfort. Military service will drum this into your head in VERY short order. This approach also eliminates the phrase, "oh yeah that was broken or needing attention the LAST time I drove". I have seen all manner of excuse used as to why a person does not take care of their gear in detail and every time. Without an intimate knowledge of your gear and its proper function, you are headed for surprises and disappointment. Said disappointment might culminate in the ruination of a driving horse/partner. That's when I tend to get peeved, because most often it was unnecessary and wholly avoidable.

If your wire spokes are loose, broken, rusted or what have you, your wheel needs to be repaired or replaced as you have all the warning you need that a failure is imminent.

Again whatever you drive, become married to it so that you can see the early signs of trouble and avoid it for your horses sake if nothing else.

Gosh the theme is still the same, greater involvement and engagement in all aspects of what you do. Do it and encourage others to do the same by example and word.

Gotta get back to the crickets,

Bb

Graham Carriage Works

www.grahamcarriageworks.com


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## RhineStone (Feb 3, 2011)

I think we are going in circles and are not on the same track.

The initial questions that I responded to were "what makes it a trail cart besides the steel wheels" and "why do you use the size wheel you do?" So I posted a photo of what can happen to a pneumatic wheel. Bb said that doesn't happen if a wheel is maintained, but my point was that a lot of people who have cheap vehicles don't maintain them, and therefore we see more instances of wheel failure in pneumatic wire wheels. My guess is that they don't even know that they need to be maintained, hence the good discussion on the other thread. (BTW, someone with more experience in the pneumatic department needs to comment there.)

Here is my concern with this discussion. (I know I am picking out one little aspect...) ADS has a rule that pneumatics can't be used above Training level in CDEs and can only be used in the first year of a Pleasure show. I don't want people to decide that this rule is wrong because it is just a "maintenance" issue. Bb, you even gave an example of a wheel failure just because the vehicle was dropped. That had nothing to do with maintenance (care, yes, but maintenance, no). If that same wheel was slammed into a concrete form in a water hazard or whaled into an oak tree on a trail instead, would it still be "sound"? Probably not. Pneumatic wire wheels are just not as strong as other wheels, period. I also question whether or not you would get the "slide" that you need in hazards sometimes, or if that fat wheel would catch the ground and flip the vehicle.

Yes, there is a place for pneumatic wheels, but I don't want people to get the impression that ADS is wrong because we are not fond of them above a certain level. There is a logical reason that rule is there. If all you are going to do is go round and round an arena and straight down a smooth, wide trail, then pneumatics are fine. If you want to eventually move up in the ranks of competitive driving and only purchase one vehicle, they are not appropriate.

Myrna


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## Carriage (Feb 3, 2011)

My apologies to Amy and all for not catching the purpose for the cart and the need for non-pneumatic wheels. I thought I was responding to the natural flow of the conversation including for some reason(?) a taco'd pneumatic.

Please don't let Myrna give you the "impression" that I counter the ADS on anything, well almost anything. And even if I do find myself in disagreement, I still live within the rules. I just find out where the edge is and live there. I like it because it is my calling and it makes the "gatekeepers" nervous.





Can't wait to see you in your new rig Amy,

Bb


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 4, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> I think we are going in circles and are not on the same track.


Yes, but they're very interesting circles!



I'm enjoying reading the contributions by both authors.

Leia


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## Carriage (Feb 4, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Yes, but they're very interesting circles!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, they aren't the same circles... just when you think you have the pattern, the circle is changed on you. Seeing as how I've been EXTREMELY circumspect in my contributions anyway, I'll bow out and chalk it up to another lesson in futility learned. Hopefully the lesson sticks this time. Serenity now.....





I'm gonna go weld stuff,

Bb


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## RhineStone (Feb 4, 2011)

I sure didn't mean to irritate anyone with my contributions. I was totally reading between the lines and "forecasting" what presumptions could be made by a particular statement. I'm sorry.





I still think someone needs to explain how to maintain a pneumatic wheel.



I have no idea. I don't think that my mom has done anything with hers since she got it about 15 yrs. ago. And we only have wood and steel wheels here.

Myrna


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## Sue_C. (Feb 4, 2011)

Pneumatic wheels/tires generally need the same care and maintenance as the wooden really...the difference being that the spokes are more easily replaced and/or tightened. They too, have replaceable bearings, spokes, and rubber. The rubber of the tires should not be cracked, the rim must not be bent or warped in any way...and they should be heavy-duty enough for the job asked of them.


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## rubyviewminis (Feb 4, 2011)

Lots of information here and there. Most of my driving would be on pavement and a few dirt roads. I am not sure if a cart would fit on the equestrian trails here on the greenbelts. Hope so, if the weather clears up again I will take a mini walk over and see. Now with that info I am looking at the Smart Cart, Minicrown, and maybe the G & S trail cart. I just want quality, adjustable as much as possible, and smooth ride. Do the manufacturers help guide you to size of wheel and cart type if you tell them what you plan on using them for. Do we have to send wheels in somewhere for repairs or maintenance, or do most people do their own? I usually have done all that with all of my other horse equipment in the past and my husband is pretty handy. Thank you to all of you, I have two 3 inch binders of information I have printed out on driving over the last 5 years from here. But now that I have a mini actually old enough to drive I am getting serious about the details. Now to read those books.

Since I was on here last I really started looking at my four out there as far as driving is concerned. I went and got the measuring stick out and was shocked that since December 23rd, my little guy finally leveled out and grew 1.5 inches! I can't believe he grew that much in the middle of winter. We have been waiting since last June for his front to catch up to his hind end! I am crossing fingers he grows at least another inch or so, but it isn't looking good lol. And my little Jewel grew a whole inch too. But she has always been long legged (avatar).


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## RhineStone (Feb 6, 2011)

rubyviewminis said:


> Do the manufacturers help guide you to size of wheel and cart type if you tell them what you plan on using them for.


It depends if the manufacturer actually knows what they are doing and not just out to make a buck. There are some suppliers that are pretty much just order takers. If you are green at selecting a vehicle, it is all the more important to find a driving instructor and a supplier that knows their business, sport, and product, and will take the time with you. If they can't answer some of those tough questions, or try to persuade you that whatever they are selling will "work" for whatever you want to do ("Oh, it'll be juussttt fine!"), then I would steer clear.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 7, 2011)

Carriage said:


> No, they aren't the same circles...


Never said they were- just that both were interesting and worth reading.







RhineStone said:


> I still think someone needs to explain how to maintain a pneumatic wheel.


Agreed! Bob, this is the kind of thing your input would be invaluable on if you could be coaxed to contribute. Please??





Leia


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## Carriage (Feb 8, 2011)

Agreed! Bob, this is the kind of thing your input would be invaluable on if you could be coaxed to contribute. Please??





Leia

"I sure didn't mean to irritate anyone with my contributions. I was totally reading between the lines and "forecasting" what presumptions could be made by a particular statement. I'm sorry.



"

Well I guess that so long as the above apology is sincere, I could give it another shot. But I gotta tell you that I've grown quite weary of nearly constant contradiction, forecasting, presumptions, disclaimers, out right falsehoods, innuendo and an utter lack of knowledge as to what I do and why.

It's just when that is going on it's FAR more fun to just go quietly do what I do. It pretty much comes down to honoring and respecting others as BETTER than you.

I am here to learn as well because this IS my passion. Anybody that REALLY knows me knows that I am all in.

I'll go to the appropriate thread to answer what has been covered fairly well.

Bb

Graham Carriage Works

www.grahamcarriageworks.com


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