# Can we see pics of minis in training for driving?



## targetsmom (Sep 2, 2011)

To follow up on "how many driving horse do we have?" it seemed like many of us have horses in training, so I thought it might be helpful to post photos with some details. How long in training, what next, issues, whatever.

As some of you may know, we just bought a 3 year old from Getitia - Buckeye WCF Last Dance - who has been here just 3 weeks now. We have mostly let her settle in, meet the herd, and start her training so slowly that we hope she doesn't even feel like she is being trained! We have led her through our standard trail obstacles which include a teeter-totter bridge, a "waterfall", we shook a bag of tin cans in her face, led her over fallen trees (from the hurricane) and have been thrilled with her reaction to everything! The bitting rig is a bit tight so we fitted her in a harness and already moved from the open bridle to the blinker one. We have only longed her so far but want to move very soon to two lines and ground driving. Here is a photo from Wednesday 9/1 of her being longed. The side reins are NOT a standard training step - we do use sliding side reins but this set up was a one shot deal to add some SLIGHT tension on the bit for the very first time in preparation for the next step. She is already trotting, walking and whoa-ing on voice commands and will stand forever. LOVE THIS MARE.







Let's hear about your training - who it is and where you are... Please...


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Sep 2, 2011)

She looks great, Targetsmom. She's really stepping under herself in that picture. I'd love to be part of this thread but I can't offer pictures. Since I work alone for the most part its very difficult to get any pictures while I'm working the horse  If you're interested I can show pictures of them in their pens and tell you where I am with them.


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## targetsmom (Sep 2, 2011)

Of course we all like pictures, but I think for educational purposes, telling where you are in the training will be great! And any pics you can share of the minis. I admit, I had a helper longe Dancer so I could take photos!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Sep 2, 2011)

OK but remember, you asked for it





I'll start with my husbands pair, Red and Zeke. These are 10 and 12 year old full brothers. We have had them since they were 7 and 9 (2008) when we started their training as singles. I'd like to say they 'took to it like ducks to water' but that would be far from the truth. They accepted ground driving learned voice commands and were willing to go anywhere, thro anything we pointed them at. But... the day finally came when they needed to be hitched to a cart. There was almost no reaction to the cart itself but when a driver stepped aboard things changed. First was the refusal to move at all ("What? You want me to pull weight? No no no , that is NOT possible.") LOL, the were sure any weight on the cart was too much and when refusing got a stern reprimand they tried running backwards - soooo dangerous and also cause for some serious scolding- Zeke learned that it was easier to just step into draft and follow his nose but Red, who has always been a horse who felt inclined to fight what he saw as unfair or too great a demand, moved to rearing in the traces. OK, so not cool and since we already knew he had all the basic skills (he would even pull a drag without a problem)we really demanded he reform 'right now!' Then came the day that he decided he'd had enough, after a smooth round or two of the arena he stalled on a corner, tried backing a step or two and when that seemed to be more work than it was worth he reared. He reared so high he flipped himself over in the traces, narrowly missing landing in my lap! Fortunately I was for once not alone and I stayed in the cart while several others stood him up, sorted him out and once we were sure the horse and harness were fine, I collected my reins and sent him forward again. And forward he went. That was 3 years ago and he has never given me or anyone else any trouble at all since that day. No more temper tantrums in harness no matter where we went, including cross country over rough terrain. We drove them single until this spring when we finally felt they had enough experience to pair them up. The picture ( ha, I did find one of them with someone else at the reins) is of their first day of ground driving as a pair. Unfortunately we decided that harness (rather the collars) didn't fit correctly so we sold it, and ordered a new one, only to discover we needed to 'tweek' the new one. We are still in the process of doing that and refinishing the small wagon they will be hitched to so they haven't gotten nearly as much work this summer as we'd hoped. Still, I was pleased that they seemed well suited to pair with each other, paced themselves well and no stress about being 'tied' together. They do live together and have shared everything for the entire 4 years we've owned them so are pretty clear about their standing with each other. We have always known we would pair them so try to lead them together when we move them, usually Red on the right and Zeke on the left, which will be there positions in harness. I don't anticipate any problem with the eventual hitching of them to a wagon, which I am hoping to do by this fall, but will update the story when that finally comes about.

Whheeew! That was long... stay tuned for the story of Pistol who is newly hitched this year and Cruiser a young stallion (soon to be gelding) who is being ground driven.

OK no critiquing the wardrobe of the drivers lol


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## hobbyhorse23 (Sep 2, 2011)

Clickmini and I have had this discussion (about side reins) recently and we're both coming to the conclusion that side reins are the devil if you're trying to develop a horse who really bends and lifts off rein contact. She's had horses started that way by trainers and those critters are very, um, "strong" in their contact preferences and never really learn to respond to a feather touch. Others that she's started herself using John Lyons bridlework do some amazing things off the lightest of touches. I was going to experiment with it and see if indeed using sidereins would cause a horse to lean or become insensitive as some people claim but I tried Amy's method and followed my own gut and sidereins simply became obsolete in my training process. Why teach the horse to "give" by using a device that doesn't? All they learn from sidereins is that when something hits you painfully in the mouth it will stop hurting if you move towards it. That's not really a mutual give, that's more of an arms detente! Side reins aren't so bad after that initial introduction to contact but I wouldn't want them to be the first thing a horse felt.

What I did was once Turbo got used to wearing a bit I started picking up one rein (and one rein only) and holding light tension on it with my hand above his wither, asking for him to give his head to the side and flex at the poll. At first of course he was confused and tried chewing the bit, attempting to pull it out of my hand, moving sideways, etc., but I held that same soft elastic pressure without change until he gave me the least tiniest give and then immediately released and praised. We kept up that lesson until when I picked up the rein he'd immediately lift and soften to the side and then repeated that on the other side. That turned very easily into movement and then lateral movement and within five minutes my colt was doing work on three and four tracks perfectly calmly. I have video I can upload if you're interested in seeing those first few minutes. I was amazed! As I've continued his training I've found that he sought contact from the first minute and already trusts my hands as a source of feedback and instruction on how he should hold himself. Since he's already learned to give at the poll and lift rather than just _not bracing_ when he feels pressure, he's naturally learning to bridle up right from the start and I'm stunned at how well he's doing on only his third and fourth hitches. He's already showing the foundations of Preliminary Level frame and lengthenings and he's barely into Training Level!

Turbo naturally has a good walk so it hasn't taken him much to learn to flex and bend nicely at that gait. I spent a lot of time when he was a yearling and two year old teaching him how to move in a balanced frame to the right as that was his stiff side and once he was in long-lines I had to repeat all those lessons at walk and trot and it took him awhile to get it. After he was balanced (or at least not falling in) at both gaits and flexing at a walk he continued to be mildly resistant in the neck at a trot, not really bracing so much as simply not giving. I hit a month or so then where family circumstances interrupted our training and I didn't get him working again until just before we went to the beach in August. I long-lined him that Friday in camp and noticed he was starting to flex at the trot, by Saturday he was suddenly getting it and beginning to consistently give and bend at a trot, and when I ground-drove him this Wednesday he had it nailed. Head on the vertical right from the start, taking contact, bending smoothly both ways...it's like this horse trains himself while sitting in the paddock!



He starts out each lesson light-years beyond where we left off.

We hit a similar mild issue when training for the actual cart. He couldn't have cared less about drag poles, gave me no fuss at all about them and went right to trotting on concrete with them rattling along behind him, but he had anxiety about being between the shafts with the easy entry cart following him. It wasn't about the cart itself (he'd come running at liberty and follow it all over the arena!) but I got the impression he was concerned about something sitting so tall directly behind him. I broke things down into smaller steps and had a friend lift the drag poles to a horizontal position while I ground-drove him. He was worried for a few moments by this big tall girl right on his tail but with a little reassurance and the first click for moving forward calmly he went "OH! That's not so bad, I get it now" and completely let go of his worry. Moments later he was learning to swing into the "shafts" and gleefully enjoying muscling things out of his way. This formerly submissive colt gets a kick out of discovering he can make things move!



I think the power is going to his head.





Anyway, Turbo is driving now (he had his third hitch at the beach) and I've got some video from that drive and pictures from his fourth single drive on Wednesday I'll be sharing in the next couple of days. He's fairly forward but tires easily and becomes amusingly petulant if I push him too hard too soon. ("But Mom, this is hard! I don't like working hard!") He's also working pair with Kody, has done maybe four drives that way, and he really likes it right up until Kody trots off faster than T is currently capable of going. *LOL* I think eventually Turbo will be the more powerful of the two but right now there's no way he can match Kody's lengthened road trot and he gets seriously annoyed when Kody takes off like a rocket.



At a walk and a canter he can keep up but without knowing how to power off his hindquarters all he can do is hustle along at top ticka-tap trot speed next to his buddy and he hates it because he can't get into a rhythm that matches Kody's long strides. Pooooor little baby...hehe. He does fine at a slow trot.

The only other issue I'm reluctant to mention is that his stifles have started acting up again since he's begun driving. I think it's a combination of inflammation from the exertion and the fact that once he starts favoring them his resulting posture actually causes him to lock more. I squared off his hind toes when it got really bad and that helped but I'm going to start alternating driving days with cavaletti workouts to remind him to work those quads and move round. When I did that Thursday you could almost see him going "Oh, yeah, I forgot. I can move that way, sure!" and once he realized it felt better he retained that freer movement and didn't lock. Lots of PT in this boy's future!

I'll post pictures when I get home from work tonight. They're already up on FaceBook.

Leia


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## targetsmom (Sep 2, 2011)

Leia-I appreciate the comment on the side reins and I really did mean that was a one time deal. I do NOT plan to use them again in training, and if you look closely you will see they are only attached to the tugs, which are not buckled down so they move freely. I like the idea of what you did with Turbo to teach him to flex. I may try that this afternoon....

Mary


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Sep 2, 2011)

He starts out each lesson light-years beyond where we left off. 

I love reading about Turbo's lessons. Lucky you, you have a thinker. That is a great boon as long as you can keep them looking forward to work. Heaven help the owner who's thinker learns to dread work tho, if they do they are tough to out think and can come up with more unique ways to avoid work than a horse who is maybe not quite so quick. They can learn good and bad lessons equally as quickly too. Turbo is a lucky boy, he has a smart and caring trainer who recognizes the need to keep his mind engaged too.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Sep 2, 2011)

targetsmom said:


> Leia-I appreciate the comment on the side reins and I really did mean that was a one time deal.


I getcha- I'm just saying as a side note for our readers that if I were going to use them, the first time is the last place I'd do it after what I've learned this year. First impressions matter more than we'd think even with horses.



I say this with the fervor of someone who is more and more grateful I accidentally started my colt the other way because the benefits are turning out to be way better than I'd even hoped! I'm still a great fan of sliding side reins by the way, and noticed that once Turbo had a positively-taught conditioned response to rein pressure he knew just what to do with both regular and sliding sidereins and there was no getting tugged hard in the mouth until he gave in or having them so loose all they really did was confuse the horse.



Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> He starts out each lesson light-years beyond where we left off. I love reading about Turbo's lessons. Lucky you, you have a thinker. That is a great boon as long as you can keep them looking forward to work. Heaven help the owner who's thinker learns to dread work tho, if they do they are tough to out think and can come up with more unique ways to avoid work than a horse who is maybe not quite so quick. They can learn good and bad lessons equally as quickly too. Turbo is a lucky boy, he has a smart and caring trainer who recognizes the need to keep his mind engaged too.






Aw, thanks. As most of you know I have two thinkers so I've got lots of practice! Luckily both love to drive so there is very little evasion there, just channeling their enthusiasm and making sure I don't let them go too fast so they truly understand what they're being taught. I'm pushing Turbo a bit harder than I'd like to right now trying to get ready for the VSE Driving Trials Twice at Happ's in two weeks and he's getting a little reluctant about having his tack put on so I think I'm going to go back to clicker training him for good work as that keeps him engaged and interested. After the trials he can have some time off and I'll spend the rest of the winter really broadening his training program with a lot of long-line work, some jumping, in-hand stuff, some trail driving and pair work, trick training, anything to keep him busy through the long dark winter. By next spring I think he'll be more ready to plunge in full-speed.

Leia


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Sep 2, 2011)

This is Pistol. He is 8 now. i started him very very lightly late in his 2yr old year but he seemed completely overwhelmed by it all. So I too backed off. I turned him out to do some growing, doing in hand stuff and just generally working on manners and listening to verbal cues. When he was 5 I restarted him and got as far as hitching and driving him once. Then life kind of interfered with my plans so he was once again turned out. This year he turned 8 and I decided it was time to really get down to business with him. I started this spring with ground driving, progressed quickly to ground driving with a sliding side rein (which I find useful for helping horses find their balance once they are responding well to rein and verbal cues) and finally hitched him again. I spent the first week walking him, letting him get the feel for the weight and learn to push thro the shafts in a turn then when I was sure he was relaxed I began asking him for walk, trot, halt ,trot and halt back. He has picked up each step so easily that I have decided it is time to start pushing him. He is finally at a point where he is ready I believe to take some pressure and really learn his job. Altho he is still very green and needs time/work and miles, he will be taking part in the fun day I am setting up for the 10th and it will be his first 'public' appearance as a driving horse. Wish us luck


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## LazyRanch (Sep 2, 2011)

I have two guys coming from the same home, but completely different attitudes.

One - Rascal - was the wife's horse. She showed breed shows pretty much full time, spent a lot of money on trainers, from what I have been told, and was fairly horrified when I told her I was thinking about driving combined driving. In fact, as I recall, her statement was: "OH! Oh, Cheryl, we have spent a LOT of money teaching Rascal NEVER to go beyond a trot!"

I am certainly not an expert i training driving horses, mini or otherwise, so I am not so sure how well spent this money was. If one tells him "Step up!" the preferred method around here of asking a horse to walk, he ignores it. Maybe that is just a local command and Phoenix is too far away. If you cluck, he leaps into a centipede trot off into the wild blue. If you kiss, he turns into a millipede, the legs move 100 times faster, his head and neck come up and he locks his jaw. There is absolutely NO concept of bend - and I have been told I should not expect an arena horse TO bend. OMG. To me, he seemed like a race horse - trained to lean on the bit, hang on to it for balance and freight on down the road. Not my idea of balance and self carriage. So we have spent an enormous amount of time working on no leaning, no bolting, no raising the head and locking the jaw.

The first photo is Rascal when we first tried him on cones, head up, lower neck muscles fully engaged and trying to disengage my shoulders. Notice how short his strides are - because his back is totally dropped and unengaged.

Second photo is a year and a month later. His head is down and his entire body is engaged in not only front to back - his hind legs are well under him balancing him, rather than him balancing on his bit - he is also balanced laterally. If I had two side shots, you would see the bulge under his neck in the first photo is nearly completely gone! He still doesn't bend well, but at least he isn't such a brick. And if you could see my arm muscles (bulging in the first photo) you would see there is much less stress on them - Rascal has learned to carry himself and is about 40 times lighter on the bit; I actually only have to close my fingers now, rather than use arms and shoulders.

The second horse, PJ, was the husband's horse. They were best of buds, pizza pals, no shows, I don't really know what he did. But I do know that, while most mini people hereabouts know Rascal very well and have competed against him, no one can recall ever having met PJ. One guy told me he was basically behind the barn. When PJ's owner died suddenly, PJ went into a small dark world, I think. He wasn't motivated, didn't move out, was fine on the trails and roads, but mostly because he just wasn't excited enough about life in general to spook. So with him, it was more a case of getting him interested again.

Last year, he suddenly clicked with the idea of hazards are fun and cones are cool, but the best part is dressage. He is like a rubber band and does true extensions and shortening. He also has a very soft mouth, so pulling is never an issue. BUT PJ has yet to make time on cones! This year has been emphasizing pace. The bike computer has been really helpful with that.

Third photo is from last year. He has very little top muscling on his neck - but not the bulge under the neck Rascal had - and little muscling across his topline. But he steps well from behind; even though the trot is slow, it is engaged.

The fourth photo is PJ last week. His head is well carried, hind legs coming up and he is actually going relatively fast! This was a Darby, and although Darbys are speed competitions, I brought him along with Rascal. I was so excited that PJ was actually raising dust! He won't ever be a speed demon like Rascal, so he is in the Beginner - trot only group. But he was the greenest of the trotters. He has a very nice bend throughout his body. Sadly, he can also be much like wet spaghetti - just noodle into a puddle.

I have found the discussion about the side rein interesting. When I lounge PJ I often put a side rein on the outside, running it from his bit ring to the tug - a fairly straight line. This keeps him from dropping his inside shoulder, and gives his front end a parameter, i.e. the neck may come this far, the inside hind leg MUST do the rest. I do, however lounge in a lounge cavesson, with the line attached to the inner ring. Guess I should set that up and get a photo.

Lounging in a lounge cavesson, as opposed to snapping on the far side of the bit and either over the head or under the chin and through the inside bit ring just isn't fair, if the horse works quietly and well. But that's my opinion. Anyway, that's how I have got myself two nice stretchy, elastic horses.


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## LazyRanch (Sep 2, 2011)

Oh, forgot to add:

I never use the side reins when starting horses. I know some trainers (ridden horses) who say that it teaches a horse to "work within a frame" hate that term. But I usually find those are the horses that never learn to think for, or carry, themselves naturally.

It's kind of like raising a kid in a box, then wondering why they only function in a box.

Leia, you hit the nail on the head.


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## ironbessflint (Sep 2, 2011)

I've got three projects going right now!

After training countless big horses, this is my first mini and I'm just so pleased with how he's coming along! He's been wearing full harness, ground driving everywhere, and been having some weight added to traces over the last little bit. Tomorrow if all goes well (and weather cooperates!) he pulls a tire for the first time! We've been alternating some long line and lunge work to get him thinking about contact more and moving in a better frame, but he's really doing nicely for his level of training and fitness.











I wish I could get my ridden dressage mare to halt like this:






Relaxing a bit...






And FINALLY some stretch. Yay!






I'm hoping for some ADS stuff with him next year and CDEs in the future.


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## ironbessflint (Sep 2, 2011)

#2 is my mom's new gelding. We've only had him a little bit and he's only two, so the real work will begin next year. But so far he's been introduced to full harness (less blinkers) and didn't care, and he's now been bitted and led around while wearing a bit. He's handling every new thing beautifully and I think he'll be super easy to train.
















And the last project isn't mine, but is definitely the most difficult. My farrier acquired a mini because he was getting too fat in the herd of large horses he was in, and his previous owner had no time to work him, and no way to separate him. She's offerred to trim for me in exchange for training him to drive, and boy is he NOT happy about that! Day one my farrier said she'd been doing some ground driving and she confirmed that he knew "Walk on." He's worn full harness, so I got mine all sized to him, gathered up the lines, told him to "walk on" and this is what I got:











The first time I've ever had a horse lay down on me, and I'll I wanted him to do was walk! He was being SO BAD and I couldn't stop laughing. Training at it's finest. Wow. Over three weeks we've progressed to this:






We now mostly have go (except for when we start backing up), and sometimes steering (but sometimes turning is cause for stopping). We do have a pretty good whoa.



He'll definitely be a gratifying one when he's going well!


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## BannerBrat (Sep 2, 2011)

Only one guy in training here. He's for a friend of mine. Probably going be sold this fall. Here's a video of him long lining. He's going to end up a real good horse. At 3 he's not totally convinced, but i am. LOL.



It's nice to see everyone else's horses working.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 11, 2011)

ironbessflint said:


> I've got three projects going right now.


With all the looking I've been doing at harness, would you please tell me what you have on your mini's?? Good looking harness - appears that it might be betathane?

Very nice stretch, btw!!! I don't get that on my riding horses well and the only driving pony so far to do that is one that tries to do it all the time, LOL.


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## Minimor (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm currently working 6--4 Minis and two ponies. The ponies are taking longer, partly because I don't have anyone to help with them & so I have to be extra careful with everything & really take my time to make sure they are fool proof. One may have been driven before; she has definitely had some work & obviously knows how to pull, but I have no history on her & my concern is she has been in a wreck with the cart--so I am being very cautious with her. When I hitch her I don't want any nasty surprises!

Of the 4 minis, all are 3 year olds; Magic is 34" and has always been a jumpy little guy. I wasn't sure he'd make a driving horse, but he's coming along very well. I haven't had the blinder bridle on him yet but am thinking I'll hitch him in the open bridle & introduce the blinkers later on. Spirit, who is 37", is also going very well in the open bridle--I may hitch him the next time I work him. Tempo who is just under 38" needs a little more long line work & then he will be ready to hitch. 34" Midas is a bit of a bullheaded little guy--he's had a bit of an attitude to him since we got him as a weanling but overall he is quite agreeable. He'll need to be long lined a few more times before I hitch him but he's made a lot of progress this week.

I am also helping a friend get her 36" mare started in harness. Next time I go over there I'll put her in the shafts & see what she thinks of that, and then assuming she has no issues with the cart, she'll be about ready to hitch.

I don't have any photos--Mom is here but we haven't bothered to take a camera out when we're working horses. Maybe once I get some of them hitched we'll get around to taking some photos?

I don't use sidereins on the small equine. I have never believed in using sidereins to get the horse into a frame--in most cases all people accomplish with sidereins is a headset and I have no use for a headset. Training will create collection and with collection will come the proper frame, including the desired head position.

Now--when my mom worked the Morgans on the longe line she could use side reins to achieve true collection on the longe--she didn't have the sidereins tight, nor even snug--she would leave them quite loose and then get the horse going on the bit--and then collecting--simply by using the line to get the horse to take contact & then collect...certainly not something she did in the early longe line work and not something that was accomplished in two lessons. I can do the same thing but don't because I simply don't enjoy longe line work all that much. I can't really say it's boring, because it isn't when you are working on that kind of training! I just prefer to get on & ride--or drive, in the case of the Minis and ponies.


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## susanne (Sep 11, 2011)

ironbessflint said:


> ...told him to "walk on" and this is what I got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



...and here I thought I was the only one with a recumbinant driving horse-in-training! Your photo could be my stallion Flash, who evidently confuses longeing with lounging...he actually flops onto his back with his legs in the air.

I've put off training until after he is gelded, although he may have even less enthusiasm then.

He's not lazy...he's economical!


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## dreamlandnh (Sep 12, 2011)

This is a great post. When I get home tonight I will post pictures of Lizzie and Streaker. She has been working with him for just over a month and he is doing well. He has started pulling a tire attached to his tracers with noodles on the tracers. Only think he has done is when the tire went across the gravel in the driveway made him a scoot a bit but now it is like old hat. She is hoping this week if the weather holds to have me pull the cart next to him while she ground drives him.


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## ironbessflint (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks Paula! This pony was SO anti-contact when I brought him home, that I'm just thrilled to have some real connection going. (And too funny about your one driving pony. I joke that my dressage mare has such a good stretchy trot because she thinks it's the "look for food circle")

The harness is the Mini Deluxe with the Super V collar from http://countrycarriagesusa.com/. Claudette was absolutely fabulous to work with and great about swapping out pieces and parts (although with very accurate size charts, that wasn't really needed). It is beta, and one of the nicest I've seen (I'm a self-admitted leather snob, but I LOVE this harness!)

Susanne...good luck with your boy! Sure is challenging. I'm glad my Henry is doing so well, because Puff is just driving me bonkers!

For some training updates...

Puff has literally gone from one extreme to the other, and instead of laying down, he's turning bipedal. BAD! We have good moments, but when he objects, he objects STRONGLY!











With him it's all about just getting a solid response to forward when I ask for it. I don't even much care about direction or steering or speed, I just want a good forward response. He's still a long ways from moving on until I have that.

Henry, on the other hand, is not only making progress, but deciding that he REALLY likes his job. I get him all harnessed and he just marches off, all proud of himself.











I had my mom give a hand over the last little bit pulling on traces to get him used to weight, and then dragging a tire around him getting used to noise. And then the pieces were ready and now he's officially pulling a tire:






We'll drag the tire around a bit outside the ring, but then I think he's close to hitching!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Sep 15, 2011)

ironbessflint said:


> Puff has literally gone from one extreme to the other, and instead of laying down, he's turning bipedal. BAD! We have good moments, but when he objects, he objects STRONGLY!


Man, that little guy is just DETERMINED!!



Good lord.

I never did get around to posting any pictures of my Turbo, but I uploaded one or two yesterday just so I could post them. Here he is on his fourth single drive (he'd been out another three or four times in a pair arrangement) and the first time he really started to figure out how to use his neck at a trot.





















A job well done!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Sep 15, 2011)

This kid's got action to burn when he wants to:







And just for fun, a couple of the boys on their first pair drive.

Ground-driving-






First moments of first trot. (A bit tense, but so cool!)






Leia


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## targetsmom (Sep 15, 2011)

Wow - this thread is even better than I hoped for! Thanks everyone. I hope others are getting as much out of it as I am. Love the reminders of what can happen when things go bad.

No pics yet, but I can report that Dancer has progressed to ground driving (with no side reins!)and I am very pleased with how quickly she learns.

Leia - I think on page one you offered to post a video of you training Turbo to yield and flex when you lifted a single rein?? When you get a chance you could you please post that link? I plan to try that.


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## WashingtonCowgirl (Sep 18, 2011)

No pictures but Spanky is to the point of dragging things (any suggestions on how to best hook them to the harness would be greatly appreciated). This is the first stage of his training that I will be doing, as he was started by Patty Cloke. Darla only knew how to lead, so we have done a few lessons in lunging at the walk, taking it slow because she is pregnant. I hope to have her doing some beginning ground driving soon so we can take them for walks around town to help desensitize to cars and stuff


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## Melinda Dean (Sep 18, 2011)

Hi... I do not show, but I do have fun teaching my minis all sorts of things. I trained my A mini to drive years ago and am starting a newbie now.

Here are a couple of pics taken today. I have a 9 yr. old 30.5" gelding and a 8 yr. old 36.5" gelding that I drive single just for fun around my place and neighborhood. (They are in the first pic, behind the fence). Neither have ever driven double.

Wanting to have a pair, I bought a foal to raise with them and hopefully match up to one or the other. Chester just turned 2 last week. I started training ground manners the day I brought him home, at 3.5 months (a very early weaning, but he was stealing all his mother's food.) He leads well and knows his basic voice commands.

First pic... When he was almost a year old, I started asking him to walk ahead of me on 2 lead lines. (No bit). No problem. Then we added a harness and swimming pool noodles dragging behind him. Still no problems.

The second and third pics are from today. The vet will check his teeth when she does fall visit. Then I will introduce Chester to a bit. For now, he and my Lil" Bit are buddied up and going for long walks through the hood. Chester is closer in size to my B guy, but is learning great working skills from my little guy. Bless him



. He is teaching him to whoa on a dime, stand and wait for gates to be opened, wait for "walk on" command, how to turn slowly. Best teaching assistant I could ask for!


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## studiowvw (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for all the interesting pics and info!

 

I'm not very knowledgeable about driving, but Lacey and I seem to be doing ok. We have 5 drives under our belts this fall. She's being very responsive and I'm getting used to the whole setup. So not doing focused training, but getting her to do large circles, fig 8s, large ovals. We can go out through the gate, whizz around the larger field and then come back into the smaller riding ring. I'm quite pleased that we can approach the gate (about 6 feet wide) at a trot, slow down (hopefully to a walk :O) - negotiate the gate without hitting anything, and carry on.

I'm learning to turn her with finger pulses and she is very responsive. Not so responsive in downward transitions but getting better. She would rather trot than walk.

Second last drive was with dead elm trees being felled a few hundred feet away - she was ok with the ATV, tractor, trucks and chain saws, but a bit jumpy when the trees would fall. However, by the end of it she was doing great.

Today I'm having a lesson with a recommended coach about 40 mins away. I'll be driving her large horse today then probably take Lacey next time.

I feel confident enough now that I think a lesson will be useful.

Lacey is 3 this year, had 3 months training with Lori Rafter last winter. Then a disappointing cart purchase truncated our driving plans last spring. Fly season hit, I got the cart functional and sold it, summer heat hit and stayed. Flies were brutal.

I got my second cart ready to go (which I really like, it is light, has a wide wheel base). Drove three times in it then realized that springs are indeed essential, even when driving on flat ground





I'm going to get carriage springs for it and my brother will weld it up.

Then last Saturday I got another cart - it has an elliptical spring under the back of the seat. The gentleman called it a show cart. It has wood on it, wood shafts, EE. It is a little older and could use some spiffing up like painting, but we have had two rides in it and it's going great. Same price as one of those pipe EE things.

Will try to upload a pic.

Here is a question:

I had a young visitor who wanted to try driving in the cart. As Lacey is fairly forward I didn't feel I could just hand the lines over to someone totally inexperienced. In the end I decided to put her neck rope on - which is usually how I lead her. We also have pretty good voice connection, and I felt it was the safest way to do it. When walking, I walked beside her, when trotting we did a large circle with me walking a smaller circle. All went well.

Just wondering how other people approach this situation (seeing as the cart seat is too narrow for two ample bums.) Do you a. NEVER hand the reins to an inexperienced person? b. use a lead rope? c. other?

My visitor did quite well with the reins (with me constantly giving directions). However, Lacey's head stayed high.

When I got back in the cart to do a few rounds myself, Lacey seemed quite relieved to feel my hands again.

I thought that was very encouraging, because when I drove her at Lori's place, Lacey was TOTALLY relieved when I handed her back to Lori, haha! Glad she's getting used to me.






The cart.

Please don't critique the handler's wardrobe, haha

Lacey and my visitor with me and neck rope. Lacey is not clipped. She is a bit tubby. I love her drafty look - she looks a bit like a Haflinger. PS she can put her head down sometimes - I haven't been stressing that - more interested in getting myself familiar with it all, and getting obedience and consistent gaits.






All in all, I am finally living a dream I've had for a long, long time





Wilma


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Sep 20, 2011)

In answer to your question about letting an inexperienced person take the reins; I have to say it depends. I have a mature, seasoned horse that I will allow green drivers to try out with supervision. On my green horses I prefer to not let anyone else (unless they are far more experienced than I am, and even then I might hesitate) take the reins. While my horse is still learning what is the expected response and what action/reaction they will be given (each handler as you have noted feels different to the horse- speaks the same language but a different dialect if you like) I don't like them to be confused trying to learn another driver's cues. Once they have the basics down pat, are comfortable with their job and reliable with my handling then I feel they are ready to learn to handle the subtle and not so subtle differences in drivers. I know a great number of horses (your Lacey is one) are started by someone and once they are working fairly well sent on to learn a different driver's (the owner perhaps) feel but in the case of my own horses I will not do green x green.

Lacey is lovely btw.


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## Marsha Cassada (Sep 20, 2011)

Concerning inexperienced drivers taking the reins with my horses:

I do let them drive Dapper Dan. Dapper Dan and I began our driving careers together. He is not a "finished" horse so I dont' worry too much about someone teaching him something bad or ruining the training I'm doing. I let children "drive" him in the sulky while I hold a lead rope. Doubt I would let an inexperienced driver take him in my EE cart without me--too dangerous. I probably would never let anyone take him where I could not supervise the drive, either.

I'd NEVER let an inexperienced driver take my young Dusty. I can't imagine what yanking, jerking, tight/loose, "whoa" when they mean "slow down", and other assorted mixed signals would do to his immature brain! In fact, I've only let two other people drive Dusty; they are both better than I am and I felt he was in good hands.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm not sure this is the really appropriate place to put this one... this colt is already larger than a mini and several of my Shetlands. He's only 1/2 Shetland out of a Hackney/Arab pony mare. BUT my daughter had pulled him out the other day and put the harness on him that I use on my 38" mare and I thought I might post this.

Sierra is just starting to actually drive - taking lessons from the same gentleman that I took lessons withall last summer. So when I wasn't using my harness, she pulled Comet out and started tacking him up. Comet is only 5 months old, he hasn't been weaned yet. Kinda funny - he's learning to lead and "drive" at the same time. He is wearing a bit - comfortably - but the driving lines haven't been hooked up to the bit. The pics are from his 3rd time wearing harness - Sunday.




We adjusted the breast collar up to where Sierra's fingers are. We also shortened the breeching straps on each side - not so much because it's too low as because I didn't want it on the bottom holes w/ the end of the strap sticking out of the buckle. This harness will not fit him this winter and if we retain him (for now we are - this is the colt that Sierra has decided will take the place of her pony that we sold. I was hoping she'd choose a filly I was already planning on keeping, but...), we'll need to fit him for harness and a cart as a two yr old.

Are the ponies pretty much full grown by the time they are 2? Can we reasonably fit him then or would we need to wait until he's older to make sure of a correct "forever" fit? I believe he'll mature between 12.2 and 13 hh.

Here he is going over a tarp - not fully driving - more lounging.




And here he is stepping off the side of the bridge rather than going straight across (by the time this session was over, he was not only leading across the bridge, but actually driving across w/ Sierra behind him - most of those pics were severely blurred, so...)




This colt's dam was screaming bloody murder for him behind the barn in a back paddock - he wasn't bothered. He's healthy and happy w/ the work that was done with him. He will be weaned in about 2 weeks - w/ 2 shetland colts that are 8" shorter than he is! This harness and "driving" session lasted less than 30 minutes and he was only away from his dam for about 45 minutes - to include walking thru 2 other pastures and being introduced to old horse trailer...

I do have two shetland fillies and the full sister to Comet (colt above) that I'm am currently working with that are two years old. I haven't had the complete harness on any of them yet - maybe this evening. The cremello filly is 37" at the withers - so MIGHT qualify for AMHR registration next summer. She's very petite and refined. The dark dapple filly is currently 39" at the withers - so I don't know what she'll be at maturity. Comet's full sister, Flower, is currently only 1-3/4" taller than Comet. She will mature much smaller than him - maybe about 11.2or 3... I've had a headstalls/bits on all 3, Ive been lounging them with that on. Over the weekend, all 3 also started ground driving by starting on a circle and then extending out w/ lines attached to both sides of the bit - practicing turning and "whoa, stands".


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 21, 2011)

Wilma your pony looks as happy as anything but I am going hot and cold at the idea of what _might_ have gone wrong. It is not just a matter of an inexperienced pony and an inexperienced driver that sends me cold, that rope round her neck is less than useless- at the best it could have sent her in a circle, at worst it could have dragged you behind a runaway.

PLEASE, please, never, ever do this again.

Would I let an inexperienced driver drive my pony? No, not without me sitting right there beside her.

Seat is not big enough?

It would not happen.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I remember not that long ago a trainer of trotters was put out of business- sued beyond his ability to survive, when he allowed a visitor- at the insistence of a very influential client- to get up on the seat behind a very quiet, schoolmaster, trotter. Horse bolted (do not know why) driver fell out and was killed. Client walked away, trainer was sued for everything he had.

Even with the quietest horse in the world, accidents can and do happen.


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## Minimor (Sep 21, 2011)

Do I let inexperienced drivers drive my horses? Generally no. If the horse is green? Absolutely not. I don't let anyone drive my green horses. There are just too many people that figure they know how to drive, and when it comes down to it they don't--or they may know how to drive but only in a mutton fisted sort of way, and I will not have any of my horses subjected to a driver with mutton fists.

Reminds me of one time when a friend came to visit. She had her own horse and rode dressage--took lessons, rode in competition, talked like she really knew what she was doing. I gave a demo on my little mare Chauncey, who was extremely well trained--she wasn't at a high level of training, but when I rode her she would go very nicely on the bit, light in the bridle, nice round back, hindlegs well under her. I offered the friend a ride. She climbed aboard, jammed her seat down into the saddle, took an iron hold on the reins and demanded that Chauncey move on. The poor horse--her back hollowed, her head went up, her hind legs went out behind. She wouldn't do anything for this friend, and the harder the rider tried the worse it got. Nope, not going there again!!

If the horse is dependable in harness I'll give a cart ride to a visitor, and if that person has an interest in driving I may let him take the lines if I can ride in the cart too. One thing I've found about complete novices, they generally listen to instruction because they haven't a clue what they're doing & so look for some instruction. If they're heavy handed they will usually lighten up when told that they need to lighten their hold. I have to know that the horse is steady enough to accept some rather inept cues before I'll let someone take the lines


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Sep 21, 2011)

Minimor said:


> Reminds me of one time when a friend came to visit. She had her own horse and rode dressage--took lessons, rode in competition, talked like she really knew what she was doing. I gave a demo on my little mare Chauncey, who was extremely well trained--she wasn't at a high level of training, but when I rode her she would go very nicely on the bit, light in the bridle, nice round back, hindlegs well under her. I offered the friend a ride. She climbed aboard, jammed her seat down into the saddle, took an iron hold on the reins and demanded that Chauncey move on. The poor horse--her back hollowed, her head went up, her hind legs went out behind. She wouldn't do anything for this friend, and the harder the rider tried the worse it got.  Nope, not going there again!!


Nothing like a horse to humble us when we start to really think we know it all.


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## studiowvw (Sep 22, 2011)

"Wilma your pony looks as happy as anything but I am going hot and cold at the idea of what _might_ have gone wrong. It is not just a matter of an inexperienced pony and an inexperienced driver that sends me cold, that rope round her neck is less than useless- at the best it could have sent her in a circle, at worst it could have dragged you behind a runaway.

 

PLEASE, please, never, ever do this again." (Rabbitsfizz)

Yes, I did think hard about it all. There are not many people I would have handed her over to. Just got sucked into other people's expectations, I guess.

The reason I did it this way is because I almost always lead her by the neck rope - she has many miles of trail walks, good voice response and is very sensible.

The other reason I allowed this girl to drive was because she has an automatic love response from my horses every time she comes, including Lacey. Something about her makes them trust her instantly.

If I had read the situation any differently, I wouldn't have carried on. I'm glad I it all went well!!

-------------

Well, I had a driving lesson and it was a privilege to drive the older schoolmaster horse. (Percheron type) We did dressage, including a lot of 40m circles, a course of cones which was cool, and a trail drive & down through the fields. Pretty cool! I think I only ran over two of the cones out of about 15 sets. We used her CDE carriage - great springs. She competes at FEI levels and says her young horse is moving up to Intermediate. (correct term?)

Don't know if her expertise is wasted on me. One side of me says - Geez, why not learn from somebody really good? The other side of me says I am wasting her time being a total beginner.

However, I can not believe the amount of contact required to do this - with feet braced against the front board. She demonstrated the feel as about 5 pounds of pull. I think I was doing about 20 lbs of pull to get him to be "working better" for me. I told her it was really hard work and she agreed.

I have been driving Lacey with light contact and getting great response from her. If I take more lessons, I'll hopefully go on using her horse in order to learn, and try applying what I learn to Lacey. Rather than use that kind of muscle on her. After about 10 years of using the Parelli program, it really goes against the grain 





I know in the harness you don't have the seat or legs to aid, but Lacey can pick up the feel when I change my focus, so some of that must be transmitted in feel to her. 

I remember a friend who drives telling me: first THINK what you want, then SAY the command, then use the REINS if you have to. 

I've set up a circle with quarter marks in the ring, and will practice half halts and looking at the next marker. The lesson did give me some ideas of how to progress.

I've got some recommended books, but there's only so much you can get out of books.


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## ironbessflint (Sep 22, 2011)

studiowvw said:


> She demonstrated the feel as about 5 pounds of pull. I think I was doing about 20 lbs of pull to get him to be "working better" for me.


In both riding and driving, my horses work on a steady but very light contact. I've often found that if I have other people work them, they find they can't get that same "frame" without a LOT of contact. What has actually happened is that there's less finesse in the contact, and so the horse goes against the contact, and the whip/rider then adds more contact, and pretty soon my mare is just pleased as punch because she will always win a pulling contest.

Your foot is ahead of you to brace yourself in the seat for turns and such. It is not there to brace against the contact. Also, with the longer reins of driving (compared to riding), the effects of each rein aid are AMPLIFIED through the length of that rein.

My point is that you're correct that you don't want to apply 20 lbs of pressure to your mare. But in continuing your lessons with the school horse, keep aiming for that 5 lbs your instructor uses.

I'd also not think of it as 5 lbs of pull. Think of your hands as inviting contact, and that five pounds as the limit of what you'll let your horse seek out. While at times everybody does what they have to do, thinking of contact at ALL as "pulling" is setting you up for the wrong feeling, and a sure way to get too much weight in that rein.

One thing that sometimes helps me is - when my hand is closed on the reins and we're trotting along - instead of thinking "half halt, half halt, half halt" and thereby closing closing closing my hand that much more on the rein, think "release, release, release." The difference of thinking seems to transmit a much softer feel to the horse.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 23, 2011)

ironbessflint said:


> One thing that sometimes helps me is - when my hand is closed on the reins and we're trotting along - instead of thinking "half halt, half halt, half halt" and thereby closing closing closing my hand that much more on the rein, think "release, release, release." The difference of thinking seems to transmit a much softer feel to the horse.



O, lite bulb moment!! Thank you - I never thought of that, even though I remember quite a number of dressage (riding) lessons.


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## studiowvw (Sep 23, 2011)

ironbessflint said:


> In both riding and driving, my horses work on a steady but very light contact. I've often found that if I have other people work them, they find they can't get that same "frame" without a LOT of contact. What has actually happened is that there's less finesse in the contact, and so the horse goes against the contact, and the whip/rider then adds more contact, and pretty soon my mare is just pleased as punch because she will always win a pulling contest.
> 
> Your foot is ahead of you to brace yourself in the seat for turns and such. It is not there to brace against the contact. Also, with the longer reins of driving (compared to riding), the effects of each rein aid are AMPLIFIED through the length of that rein.
> 
> ...


Thank you, that's a very enlightening note.

Very much appreciated!

W


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## RhineStone (Sep 23, 2011)

studiowvw said:


> Don't know if her expertise is wasted on me. One side of me says - Geez, why not learn from somebody really good? The other side of me says I am wasting her time being a total beginner.
> 
> After about 10 years of using the Parelli program, it really goes against the grain


Good for you for taking lessons and for your progress! I would not waste your time worrying about if you are wasting the instructor's time!



As an instructor myself, sometimes working with beginners keeps you "grounded", and we also may learn something about how people learn. If the instructor's willing to take you on, go for it. I would so much rather learn from someone WAY above my abilities than someone who might instill habits that aren't going to be applicable or appropriate once you move up the levels.

The amount of pressure COMPLETELY depends on the horse and its handler. I have minis that are "heavy", and ones that you barely touch the reins. I have big horses that are the same way. Regardless, most carriage drivers like a bit more contact instead of droopy "western pleasure" reins. Hardy Zantke says you've "hung up the phone" with a horse when you have no rein contact. And the contact can depend on the circumstances. When my husband showed Angel at Villa Louis, he said it was a good thing he had a "toe board" to brace against, as she was really strong. Back home last week, she was off my hands again. We don't like them on our hands, but he wasn't about to "fight" with her at her first show. If she was a "finished" horse, he might have gotten on her case a lot more until she lightened up ("Hold yourself up for crying out loud!"



:OKinteresting ) Some of that also comes with balance of the horse. They seem to go through heavy stages when they are learning to balance themselves as well as the vehicle and load. Then all of a sudden they will back off your hands. Alax used to be so heavy, my hands would hurt when I was done driving him.

Hands are also something that "develops" over time. I look back at photos of me driving even a few years ago and completely understand why I wasn't getting the performance out of my horses. I wasn't "driving" the horse, but only the tack! My husband and I still are "longing" for the hands of Suzy Stafford or Larry Poulin! We completely understand that it takes "this" (holds hands out in front and wiggles fingers as if "fondling" something you shouldn't



) to REALLY drive the horse well! You can get SOME education for your hands, but mostly it is time on the box seat driving different horses combined with a bit of talent. All the reading in the world won't get the hands you need without experience. See if you can watch some YouTubes of four-in-hand drivers with helmet cams and how they don't even think about what rein to grab and get four horses through incredibly tight spots! That humbles you to realize that you (me, we) don't know squat! (I will try to search for some later. Ran out of time.)

I do have to say that a lot of carriage drivers don't have a lot of respect for Parelli. It is way too "touchy-feely". It is good that there are systems out there that new horsemen can "follow", but when all is said and done with a carriage horse, it seems that the best drivers have more of a "I'm the parent - that's why" demeanor with their horses. We love our horses, but they also need to follow our lead because we said so.

Myrna


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 23, 2011)

I try to keep the same sort of contact with my drivers as I did when riding- I have got into far too many really bad habits over the years (I am a rein flapper- I admit it!!) so I try to pay attention all the time now.

As with riding horses, though, some horses just do not want contact, and can stay "on the bit" without any pressure at all.

As to wasting an Instructors time- no such thing. The only way you could possibly do that is by resisting learning. Anyone who is willing to learn, or at least open minded about it, is never going to waste anyone's time.

The people that really used to annoy me were the "know it alls" who came with set, preconceived ideas and wished to blame the horse for everything that went wrong.

You quite clearly do not fall into this category so go, learn, and have a blast!


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## RhineStone (Sep 23, 2011)

Want to watch good drivers' hands?

Ride along with Koos de Ronde from the Netherlands





This one is awesome with Boyd Exell from Australia, who won 2010 WEG. The camera must be on his chest so you get to see all the rein movements! http://www.vimeo.com/25772626 Check out the other videos of Boyd while you are there.

Myrna


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## paintponylvr (Sep 26, 2011)

Here is Kechi. This is the 1st time wearing a surcingle, crupper and breeching. The bridle w/ this harness is too large for her, so she's wearing one I braided from haystring. I see that I need to tighten the backstrap and the front hipstrp on the breeching. I have started ground driving her, but this was taken as I was lounging her before hooking up driving lines.

Kechi turned 2 in August and may stay small enough to hardship in AMHR. She's a registered Shetland and is currently 37" at the withers. She's petite (tiny) and has much higher action than most of my Shetlands - really shows here going over the tarp, LOL.


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## WashingtonCowgirl (Sep 29, 2011)

Today Spanky graduated to pulling a tire. I'll try to get pictures up tomorrow, weather permitting


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## ClickMini (Sep 30, 2011)

> when all is said and done with a carriage horse, it seems that the best drivers have more of a "I'm the parent - that's why" demeanor with their horses. We love our horses, but they also need to follow our lead because we said so.


I prefer to make it so that my horse follows my lead because he/she wants to.




And really doesn't think about doing it any other way. But that's a clicker trainer for you.





For anyone wanting an outstanding lesson in single-rein driving, start with the John Lyons literature or Alexandra Kurland's books and videos. It is a lot to learn but sooooo worth it. I would stack the feel on my little guy Esprit against any horse, any where, any time. We have a psychic connection.



Every time I have the slightest feel on his mouth it means something. It is a live connection. I don't even have to have the slack out. I am just starting my little guy Cas, and he will definitely be the same way. He just had his first real lesson day before yesterday. He is going to be fantastic. I love it when you can get that self-carriage with NO tension. That's what happens when you never trap your horse.

Looking at the National and World show, even the big name trainers have their horses counter-bent through the corners. I hate that. When I pick up my inside rein, my horse bends to the inside and laterals over. Inside rein controls the bend, outside rein controls how much.

IMO, John Lyons is THE place to go to get driving training ideas, because his system is communication through the reins. He doesn't train using his legs. It is all from the reins.

Just a thought, for those of you hungry for more knowledge.  I love it, it is a soft, meaningful, gentle, and connecting way to train your horse. I went through two apprenticeships with John Lyons' apprenticeship graduates. It was some of the best money I ever spent on horsemanship.


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## Minimor (Oct 1, 2011)

Here are a couple of the Mini geldings I've been working with this fall.

Tempo still isn't happy with his bit so I'm changing him to a SS french link today & I hope it will suit him better.






This is Midas, another 3 year old gelding; he's going very nicely in long lines--relaxed and very accepting of the bit, is bending nicely. The first time I long lined him he was so horribly stiff I thought it was going to take forever to get him going well, but by the 2nd lesson he'd improved so much he was like a different horse. We've had him hitched once & hope to get him hitched a few more times before winter sets in.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 1, 2011)

ClickMini said:


> > when all is said and done with a carriage horse, it seems that the best drivers have more of a "I'm the parent - that's why" demeanor with their horses. We love our horses, but they also need to follow our lead because we said so.
> 
> 
> I prefer to make it so that my horse follows my lead because he/she wants to.
> ...


I've never agreed with that "because I said so" mentality either, maybe because I wasn't parented that way!



My parents always made sure I understood _why_ I was being asked to do something and when we'd get to those times where I had to take it on faith I trusted that they did in fact have a good reason for asking and would obey without question. (Some sass, maybe, but no questions! LOL.) My "kids" may give me a little sass now and then too, but they're also engaged, interested learners who will try their hearts out for me once they understand what I'm asking and to me that's a worthwhile trade. Not everyone can afford to train that way because it takes a LONG time to build that sort of partnership and you've got to be willing to follow the horse's timeline for years before they're able to give that sort of "you've earned it, no questions" submission back to you but to me it's worth it as a one- or two-horse owner. There are certain things that are ironclad rules right from the start but most of the time we're negotiating and working together.



Minimor said:


> Here are a couple of the Mini geldings I've been working with this fall.
> 
> Tempo still isn't happy with his bit so I'm changing him to a SS french link today & I hope it will suit him better.
> 
> ...


Minimor, where did you get those surcingles and how big are the minis they're shown on? They look nice!

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 1, 2011)

Finally, I have pictures of DC starting to work!!

Now, I am still fiddling with this harness- it is made up of bits and pieces of about three harnesses altogether but it just about does the job.

No bit yet, he is not ready.











(Yes, I know the breeching is too low- it was altered!)

I have others but Photobucket hates me today so I am just not fighting it!

I have a nice one of him backing- he is very good about that, does a beautiful back and a rock solid Whoa, which is great as he really is a fidget!

I long reined him all round the field today, through the long grass where he got a sharp reprimand for attempting to graze, past the mares where he was reminded that he is now a gelding (not that he has noticed) then we practised going in straight lines and minding the whip- I remembered all the trouble I had with Misty so I have started right this time, using the whip right at the beginning, instead of the short crop.

This little horse really applies himself, and he listens to me, as well, I am going to lock the cart up or I'll have him in it next week, and he is not quite ready- he has a small explosion inside waiting to come out and I would really rather it happened _before_ I hitch him up!

On the subject of "do as I say" I agree and disagree. I want my horses to trust me enough to do something, when I say it, even if they do not fully understand why- this has always worked for me and has on two occasions, saved a horses life. Once when we were involved in a trailer accident and every nerve in the two horses (full size, Arabs) body was saying "kick this thing to pieces and let's get out of here" and they stood, for half an hour while we got them loose, because I said "STAND", and another time when my then 14 yr olds Welsh X Arab pony came over the wrong part of a cross country fence and ended up against four strands of barbed wire. As she came over the fence I heard her shout "NO, STAND" and the pony slewed sideways, came down between the two fences and waited to be cut loose. She was dripping sweat by the time we got her out, but was was alive.

Both times I shudder to think what could have happened if my horses hadn't listened to me, above their instincts.

Sometimes "Do it NOW" does not have time for explanations!


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## Minimor (Oct 1, 2011)

Leia--Tempo, pictured above, is 37 3/4" and Midas is 34". My surcingle is just one of the "cheap" nylon ones from Ozark Mtn. I got the pony sized one & it fits all my Minis & most of my ponies (it's a little too small for my one fat 44" mare!).

People have said that the nylon surcingles roll forward when you use sidereins--that may be, but I rarely use side reins so that hasn't been a problem for me. I find this surcingle very functional for what I need.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 1, 2011)

DC looks amazing, Fizz! He is SO DANG CUTE!!!!



rabbitsfizz said:


> On the subject of "do as I say" I agree and disagree. I want my horses to trust me enough to do something, when I say it, even if they do not fully understand why- this has always worked for me and has on two occasions, saved a horses life. ... Both times I shudder to think what could have happened if my horses hadn't listened to me, above their instincts.Sometimes "Do it NOW" does not have time for explanations!


Absolutely! That is the final goal for all of us, I think Amy and I were just saying we prefer to approach that training a different way. ("Follow my lead because I've earned it," not "follow my lead because I said so or else.") Please forgive me if I don't express myself too well on that subject, it's a little hard to describe what I mean without sounding like I'm all touchy-feely and no discipline. Watch how fast my boys get out of my way when I metaphorically pin my ears and you'll know that's not the case!





Leia


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## RhineStone (Oct 4, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> It's a little hard to describe what I mean without sounding like I'm all touchy-feely and no discipline.


Same thing goes for me....sounding like I am all hard nosed with no "touchy-feely"!



We have a well-placed "good boy" with a pet and a scratch. I'm just really sick of watching people baby their horses, and they themselves getting hurt because of it. I know one lady who was showing her horse to another lady and her mare actually knocked her down!



She popped back up and made some excuse for the horse, like "Oh, she must be having a bad day..."



If that was my horse, it would have "saw her maker" for the three seconds that John Lyons advocates if a horse is aggressive towards its handler!





Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 4, 2011)

I know what you mean. I'm a bad one for letting the minis (Kody especially) get away with stuff in-hand but even I get to a point where I have bloody-well had enough. Spyderman, my Arabian, had always had impeccable manners but one time when he was in his late twenties he spooked at something as I was leading him on the road and literally ran me over. Thank God I was wearing a thick parka because I got plastered under his chest as he bolted forward and finally fell under him when he stepped on my foot.



The parka hood probably saved me from a bad concussion and the rest of it saved me from some serious road rash and hoof burn but the bruises were pretty bad. I held onto the lead and he came to his senses in time to stop when he hit the end of it but do you think I comforted him when I got up?



Oh H-E-1-1 no!! He got shanked until he backpedaled and as I limped home supporting my weight on his withers, I was muttering death threats should he so much as _twitch_ at anything else that day. I realized I'd gotten too lax about my discipline and spent the next several weeks reminding him that I was scarier than anything else he might encounter and he'd BETTER respect my space.





Do I love my horses? Sure! Do I give them a lot of privileges and leeway? Sure! But they get those as they've earned them and only once they understand the basic rules. They know that they're being given a privilege and that privileges are taken away if they forget their manners. Trust me, the minis are more than smart enough to understand that.



And I'm very strict once the harness goes on. No grazing, no snitching, no rubbing, no moving from a whoa, no breaking unless told to pick their own pace, no evasions, no shenanigans! I don't think many people would find fault with my firmness as a driver. I just do it all with good humor and a positive attitude.

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 5, 2011)

I hear you and I totally agree. Respect is earned and is a two way street.

I am always on top of my entires, it is the only way to be, they don't respect me then I am likely to be flattened every time they see a mare, and that is true irrespective of size.

I know people that drive a team of four stallions- FOUR! (Full sized) Now how on earth could you do that if each and every one of those horses did not trust and respect you?

If you go onto the (newly managed ) FHOTD site the topic being discussed at the moment is a "NH" "trained" (I am using parenthesis as I know not all NH people are morons and because this person obviously is not trained) idiot who is an accident waiting to happen. If you let a horse (or a dog, or a child) do exactly what they want to do, why would you be surprised if that is _exactly_ what they do?


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## RhineStone (Oct 5, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> I know people that drive a team of four stallions- FOUR! (Full sized) Now how on earth could you do that if each and every one of those horses did not trust and respect you?


Mary Ruth Marks has drove her stallion and his sister as a pair in CDEs. if there is anyone I know whose horses respect and love her at the same time, it's Mary Ruth. And she doesn't put up with ANYTHING! (BTW, she is giving lessons at the National Drive right now, if anyone is near KY....



)

Myrna


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## ironbessflint (Oct 9, 2011)

Well just a bit of an update...

Henry progressed to ground driving in the big scary world with no fences...and didn't care. (And not ONE snatch for grass! Definitely has my big mare beat there!)











Then on to dragging the tire all over as well. Grass was no biggie, the gravel on the other hand WAS. After a big spook and RUN, it became quite evident that he needs a bit more noise and bounce desensitization!










So we've been working on that and will continue to work on that quite a bit.

And then today after a nice session we hitched him up for the first time! He stood like a champ for all the initial adjusting, which I was a bit concerned about since patience is NOT his strongest suit. I got in and my mom stayed at his head for a while, and then gradually backed away once we were going well to get some picures. We just walked a few laps each way and told him how great he was while everything was still "no big deal" to him. The arena does have quite a slope to it, so he definitely got to pull and feel the breeching, and he did great. He looked quite pleased with himself when all was said and done!!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 9, 2011)

Congratulations! He looks very professional.








Leia


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## targetsmom (Oct 10, 2011)

He looks very nice!! Glad to see the helmet too. Well done and keep it up - it is motivation for the rest of us.

We took a slight step back when I realized that Dancer did not have quite the same level of ground skills that our yearlings do. So we are now working her on just basic ground manners, ground poles, trotting on command, and halter obstacle skills until she catches up. We are also working her with the yearlings, which she seems to enjoy, and she is learning about how we train, which may not be exactly what she was used to. Still love this mare, and don't want to rush her!!


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## albahurst (Oct 10, 2011)

Very cool thread! We have just started driving training about 1 1/2 wks ago. I am pumped!


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## shelterwood (Oct 14, 2011)

Well I don't really have pics of my mare in training with any details, but I thought this was a good place to post my funny, disproportionate picture of my 3 year old mare Sasha in her new Comfy Fit harness to see if anyone has any immediate critiques of fit or adjustment. I tend to work alone while training my girls, so it's hard to get active shots. My husband likes to gently make fun of me for posting on a miniature horse forum (why do we marry these non-horsey people?? Kidding...sort of) so he is a reluctant photo taker, but I'll convince him. Anyway, she doesn't really have that big of a head, or that short/squat of a neck, but she might have that big of a belly!! I know the saddle looks a little far forward, but it looked better in action, not rubbing her shoulders. We also have a lot of winter wool already, it gets cold here in a hurry. Love this harness, and the sliding backband as suggested by Leia and others here is an amazing feature while driving on uneven terrain as I have here. This was also her first time in blinders, so you can see she was trying to figure out where the rest of her peripheral vision went!!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 14, 2011)

Mmmm, I so want one of those harnesses for cross country driving here. The only adjustment that I would do (may be others I don't see and I'm sure someone else will post if they see something



) is that I might lengthen the front hanger strap on the britchen so it hangs level. It seems to tilt upwards a bit, altho that may be more due to her not being actually hitched than any adjustment issue. Is your mare a silver dapple? odd lighting makes it hard to tell. I look forward to action shots... tell hubby he doesn't have to join in just take the pictures


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## shelterwood (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes, she's silver dapple when not in winter clothes, and her full sister is a sorrel and white pinto with blue eyes, I'm no color expert but it's hard to believe they are related! When I ground drive them together though you can see the body type resemblance and they have identical shading/striping in their tails, just different colors. They are both almost exactly 40" too, so they will make a fun little team if I can find time to keep training them. My 2 year old Sitka (AKA Sissy for bratty little sister!) has been hitched twice or three times this year, with lots of slow lunging and ground driving. I'm no expert, but feel like I've been doing OK, both seem to have fun and have had few blow-ups, but those are probably still to come. Last week I took Sasha out on a 2.5 mile trail drive for the first time and her only objection was on a dirt road going over a large culvert with moving water underneath, but we did it with some gentle encouragement. We hand walked A LOT over the last year and a half and worked on basic manners and commands, got used to cars and trucks, dogs, kids, etc, so that has helped immensely. I used to drive Standardbreds off the track so have some basic driving knowledge and decent hands I think, but a whole lot to learn!! This is a great thread to see pictures and ideas and to troubleshoot.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 14, 2011)

Hi Shelterwood! Don't worry about the photo distortion, we all know how that works.



The next time you get pictures don't be afraid to start your own critique thread, it gives us more topics to enjoy and I won't feel so bad going into detail! The short version is that everything looks pretty good but I'd lower the breeching overall, move the saddle back so it looks straight up and down and keep an eye on the breastcollar once she's in draft to make sure it's hanging right. Even standing under herself as she is, the saddle is too far forward on her withers and will interfer with her elbows. She's a cutie!

Leia


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## MiLo Minis (Oct 14, 2011)

Nope! I wouldn't ever let an inexperienced person drive a horse alone for the first time. Everyone that comes here for lessons has me in the cart with them till I am happy to let them drive on their own. Even then it is with one of my older, more experienced horses that will listen to me even if I am not in the box seat. I had a little girl that I taught to drive and she took one of my horses, Rocky, to a fair show and drove him. I was at the trailer hitching the horse I was going to drive in the adult class and I said whoa to him. Rocky, out in the ring with Roxanne, came to a screeching halt.



That is the kind of horse I use for beginners and even then I am in the cart till I am comfortable that they know enough to be reasonably safe. I would not be letting just anyone jump in with Lacey, Wilma. She is a great little horse and not prone to bolting but anything can happen! As far as using a neck rope, I have to agree with the other poster, just not a good method for stopping a horse from the ground even one with Lacey's training.

Side reins do have their place in training but until a horse has learned to give to pressure they can be a crutch that the horse learns to lean on. I personally never use 2 fixed side reins at any one time. I do use Leia's method of asking for give one rein at a time and I do it while longlining in the round pen asking the horse to give to left or right while still moving around the circle. I start from a halt and asking for give and work up to a trot. This really helps them with bending down the road too.

You might want to see if you can open the blinders on your bridle a bit more too Shelterwood, to get them off her eyes - they look a bit close here.


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## shelterwood (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks guys!

Milo, I will try to widen the blinders. They were just brushing her eyelashes a bit so I do think they could be better (the LONG eyelashes, not the short ones near the eye itself). Leia, yes my saddle is too far forward, and with my pudgy little lady's belly, is it better to leave the girth looser so the saddle sits further back? How tight should the girth be ideally? I know it doesn't need to be tightened like a regular riding saddle, but I do tighten it enough to feel secure. Is there a rule of thumb? I will also lower the breeching just a bit and try to straighten it out. Hoping to get some pictures of her hitched and in draught after these adjustments are made. Maybe I'll start a new thread then. Thanks for the input!!

Katie


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## RhineStone (Oct 15, 2011)

shelterwood said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> They were just brushing her eyelashes a bit so I do think they could be better (the LONG eyelashes, not the short ones near the eye itself). is it better to leave the girth looser so the saddle sits further back? How tight should the girth be ideally?


Once my horses are in a blinder bridle (I start them in an open one), then I trim the "eye whiskers". It's like a right of passage around here. (S)he is a "real" driving horse once the eye whiskers are trimmed!




I don't think that they really appreciate those whiskers getting bumped all the time with the blinder.

I leave the driving saddles quite loose, especially on a single horse with a well-sprung ribcage. The tighter you make the girth, the more likely it is to float towards the elbow and gall the animal. I suppose I make it just tight enough that it touches the belly. On a pair, I will tighten it more because the pair reins will twist the saddles.

Myrna


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## shelterwood (Oct 16, 2011)

Thanks Myrna! I was figuring that I should trim her lashes. That would be really annoying to have something brushing your sensitive little eye feelers all the time. I did start her in an open bridle exclusively and that picture was her first drive with blinders.She did well, but when I ordered the harness I got the cheek pieces so I can transition the bridle back and forth. I love the bridle though.....what a difference in well made, custom measured equipment!! I have you guys to thank for that advice!

I will try to loosen the girth and set it back appropriately. Hope to get some pictures hitched today.

Katie


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## MiLo Minis (Oct 17, 2011)

shelterwood said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> Milo, I will try to widen the blinders. They were just brushing her eyelashes a bit so I do think they could be better (the LONG eyelashes, not the short ones near the eye itself). Leia, yes my saddle is too far forward, and with my pudgy little lady's belly, is it better to leave the girth looser so the saddle sits further back? How tight should the girth be ideally? I know it doesn't need to be tightened like a regular riding saddle, but I do tighten it enough to feel secure. Is there a rule of thumb? I will also lower the breeching just a bit and try to straighten it out. Hoping to get some pictures of her hitched and in draught after these adjustments are made. Maybe I'll start a new thread then. Thanks for the input!!
> 
> Katie


I would trim off those long lashes so they don't bother her rubbing on the blinders and then perhaps you won't need to widen your blinders. Your saddle needs to sit flat on her back. If it leans back as in this picture the edge of the saddle will cause a pressure sore on her back. The saddle being this far forward can easily pinch the tender skin behind her elbows particularly if you are going downhill when the girth slides even more forward. You will need to loosen the girth to accommodate the larger circumference but you will also need to shorten your back strap/crouper to help keep the saddle in position. Once you get driving her, she becomes more fit, and she loses some weight the saddle will hopefully sit better. Your sliding backband will allow you to keep the girth somewhat looser even than on most driving harnesses as when working on uneven terrain it will allow the tugs to ride up and down without disturbing your saddle. I would buckle it so that it just snugs up against her skin - you should be able to slide your hand between the girth and her, fairly comfortably. Minis can be really tough to fit a saddle tree to because of their build, sometimes a well padded treeless saddle with a good pad can be a better fit. Can't wait to see photos of you driving her!


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## dreamlandnh (Oct 17, 2011)

Finally remembered to bring my pictures to work with me. Here are some of Streaker and Lizzie in the cart. He is such a good boy!! This weekend he also went out to see how he would be on the road with cars...passed all the tests.















Now for more mileage and collection.


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## targetsmom (Oct 17, 2011)

Lizzie & Streaker look great... miles ahead of us. Great job! Wish I had a ring like that, or any ring for that matter.


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## paintponylvr (Oct 23, 2011)

Minimor said:


> Leia--Tempo, pictured above, is 37 3/4" and Midas is 34". My surcingle is just one of the "cheap" nylon ones from Ozark Mtn. I got the pony sized one & it fits all my Minis & most of my ponies (it's a little too small for my one fat 44" mare!).
> 
> People have said that the nylon surcingles roll forward when you use sidereins--that may be, but I rarely use side reins so that hasn't been a problem for me. I find this surcingle very functional for what I need.



Minimor - for that one pony - use a regular dressage girth,or a pony wintec english girth. That should get you the extra length you need for a more appropriate fit... I've had lots of practice getting one size surcingle to fit all the ponies, LOL...


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## paintponylvr (Oct 23, 2011)

Ok, so almost everyone is showing single minis/ponies... I have some pics now of my pair learning to go in draft harness. I've noticed that most of these pics are not on contact on the mouths - hmm. Something to work on. This was their 2nd harnessing together - Bell was first hitched as a pair w/ her full sister (lite solid silver dapples) - a little over a year ago. Koalah has been hitched and driivng single since May 2011 but has only had about 10 hitchings - due to problems w/ my cart, injuries to me not pony related and HEAT (ok, I really wimped out this summer when temps were regularly over 85 w/ more than 65% humidity!).

When starting Koalah last year - she had some serious issues with the breeching - constantly tucking her haunches under herself and "scooting". It was kinda funny. I did use that to get her driving under herself more - but I'm a little green yet in that department and after I have mine going steady - need to go for more advanced lessons in dressage and getting started with good collection. Koalah has a very nice mouth - and seems to REALLY enjoy driving outside, w/ mother nature in an open bridle. Her 1st two hitches as a partner in a pair, with blinders, she was more than a little spooky. She appears to be getting used to the heavier and "noisey" work harness, and is now relaxing well. Even with the obvious size difference between this pair - they were in step in a lot of the photos in the 45 minutes they were driven together... It was pretty amazing to me.

? - Those of you that do pairs - do you use a connecting strap between your pair other than the lines, when ground driving or when they are hitched while they are still green? What about a "breeching tie"? Both items are used pretty consistently w/ draft style training/driving in this area - I wondered how common it is...










This afternoon is their 3rd hitch together but won't have pictures... Willlet you know how they do. I also need to hitch Bell & Bit together tomorrow - been a little while and they need the work together.


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## Minimor (Oct 23, 2011)

Leia--thanks for that tip. I hadn't thought of a Wintec pony girth or a short dressage girth--with have to check out the local shops & see if I can get one here, or if I have to order one. I did rig up a makeshift surcingle for that mare--I used a fleece girth and a latigo off a western saddle, then just made twine loops to run my lines through for longlining. It doesn't look real pretty but it serves the purpose.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 24, 2011)

paintponylvr said:


> Her 1st two hitches as a partner in a pair, with blinders, she was more than a little spooky. She appears to be getting used to the heavier and "noisey" work harness, and is now relaxing well. Even with the obvious size difference between this pair - they were in step in a lot of the photos in the 45 minutes they were driven together... It was pretty amazing to me.


Isn't that cool?





Throwing blinkers, a new and noisier harness and pair work at her all at once probably wasn't a great idea but it sounds like your girl was good and worked through it. I decided to keep my two in the open bridles they're used to for their first spontaneous pair ground-drive as the baby wasn't ready for blinkers but I was watching for problems and prepared to unhitch immediately if they couldn't handle it. My dominant gelding got a bit annoyed with the baby "crowding" him (in his mind) but I'd done my prep work and he knew he wasn't allowed to bite, kick, or glare at the other horse when they're working. To my surprise it worked out just fine and they went like little champs so I drove them open at their first competition this fall. The colt is going to learn about blinkers this winter and then we'll try driving them as a pair that way, which should be interesting. I don't think they need the blinkers as they were perfectly happy open, but they'll certainly look a lot fancier that way!



paintponylvr said:


> ? - Those of you that do pairs - do you use a connecting strap between your pair other than the lines, when ground driving or when they are hitched while they are still green? What about a "breeching tie"? Both items are used pretty consistently w/ draft style training/driving in this area - I wondered how common it is...


For ground-driving I certainly do. The one time I tried to skip it (as the pair breastcollars I'd borrowed for their first drive had been given back and the ones I'd ordered hadn't arrived yet) it was a disaster. Kody started off before the baby, the baby lagged and pulled back, Kody followed the pull on his coupling rein and spun around and next thing I knew they were totally tangled with the reins up over Kody's head.



Thank God they both stayed calm! After that I tied at least their breeching together and always had the breeching connected to the saddles so it wouldn't get pulled around their rumps but would stay in place and keep them coupled. As long as they had that they were fine. Once they started actually pulling something I didn't bother as their traces kept them straight and even.



Minimor said:


> Leia--thanks for that tip. I hadn't thought of a Wintec pony girth or a short dressage girth--with have to check out the local shops & see if I can get one here, or if I have to order one.


Not me! *points cheerfully to Paula*

Leia


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## paintponylvr (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks Leia -

You know it didn't really occur to me that that might be too much,



but then again, since my "stories" quickly become long I left some parts out... Now I realize that isn't ideal either, LOL. Koalah had worn blinders previously - maybe 2-3 times? not sure exactly. I'd have used them more but for two things - her expanding belly leaves me out of the harness that goes w/ that particular bridle and the stitching came loose on one of the blinders and I haven't been able to get it re-stitched yet...

I always figure that I have good minded ponies and I can always stop and change if there is a problem. The main difference was the heft of the harness (w/ rattley chains). I spent extra time with harnessing until she stood quietly (even a pony harness gets heavy when you take it off and put it on several times!). As to the pair - both these particular mares are quiet and laid back and don't mind other ponies around them. While they hadn't been "driven" together yet - they are pastured together. I may be using Koalah later w/ another mare - that IS her "partner" in the pasture. HOwever, that mare is virtually unhandled at this time and "hot" to boot. I'll spend time working with her this winter and see if I can have her ready. The first day that I ground drove Koalah with Bell, Tory stood in the barn at the "gate" and would call every now and then to her buddy! That was funny. All I could think of was - "yea, pay attention little brat - you'll be attached here soon enough..."... But overall, you're right - I hadn't even thought I might be overwhelming her/them... Maybe they will appreciate that I'll give it some more thought?

Thanks for the info on the breeching tie. I also have noticed that there seem to be quite a few drivers that are using either a tie between bits, collars or halters under a bridle... They just match the harness (unlike my bright blue or orange ties made from haystring) and aren't noticeable, LOL.




Hey this guy is cute! Thanks for "pointing" back at me regarding the girth idea!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 25, 2011)

paintponylvr said:


> I always figure that I have good minded ponies and I can always stop and change if there is a problem. ... But overall, you're right - I hadn't even thought I might be overwhelming her/them...


You do a fine job handling your horses and despook them to all sorts of things- not everyone does that or knows to do that so I was mostly pointing it out for the masses.



By the time you know there's a problem it's often too late! Just like your girl with the tire in the earlier story...once they've blown up, it may take ages to get them calmed down again and if they get hurt in the process you might never get them driving. In a pair it's double the risk as you could ruin or injure two horses and they can feed off each other's panic until you've got a real situation on your hands even with a helper. It's so much easier just to break things down into small steps so you KNOW the horse is good with each one and prevent the problem in the first place.





It's not so bad with an experienced horse mentoring a green one as you have, but in my case for instance the experienced horse had never been used in a multiple hitch so I didn't dare cut corners. He's got a temper and if he'd over-reacted when the baby pulled something I could have had a real problem.



paintponylvr said:


> The first day that I ground drove Koalah with Bell, Tory stood in the barn at the "gate" and would call every now and then to her buddy! That was funny. All I could think of was - "yea, pay attention little brat - you'll be attached here soon enough..."


Ha!







paintponylvr said:


> Thanks for the info on the breeching tie. I also have noticed that there seem to be quite a few drivers that are using either a tie between bits, collars or halters under a bridle... They just match the harness (unlike my bright blue or orange ties made from haystring) and aren't noticeable, LOL.


I suspect that's more a draft driving thing- I've never seen a carriage driving trainer do that. I guarantee you they wouldn't tie the bits! The last thing you want is your green horse jerking around his partner who's over there minding his own business. The mouth is sacred....

Collars though, sure. I tied my two together at collar and breeching as soon as I had collars I could do it with.

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 26, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> By the time you know there's a problem it's often too late! Just like your girl with the tire in the earlier story...once they've blown up, it may take ages to get them calmed down again and if they get hurt in the process you might never get them driving. In a pair it's double the risk as you could ruin or injure two horses and they can feed off each other's panic until you've got a real situation on your hands even with a helper. It's so much easier just to break things down into small steps so you KNOW the horse is good with each one and prevent the problem in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HAH!!! Tell me about it!

The Spotted Toad ended up head first in a hedge the other day....maybe I am going back to ground driving again for a bit!

He drove in the pipe cart today and exploded three times- right up to the point where I got more than a little cross- I have no desire to end up in that hedge with him- and I gave him the full range of my "BAD HORSE" voice. He walked round the field after that, but he is still huffy.

The only pair I have ever done we did mostly the way the gypsies do- I am NO admirer of moth gypsy horse breaking methods as the accent seems to be on "breaking" and anything over a year old is fair game (reminds me a lot of the Amish community in this way _only_)

We had the experienced horse harnessed as usual and had the inexperienced (in pairs) horse attached by a halter to the collar of the driven horse. There were LOADS of steps I have missed out here, before this happened, and I have to admit to going cold all over when my slightly crazy friend told me she had, in my absence, been actually driving out along the lanes like this!! Still, what doesn't kill you and all that, but I would NOT suggest this as a viable or even sane way of actually starting a pair.

In this case it worked and they went like good 'uns- never did put either in blinkers- one had never been in them and the other one was happier, even at 17, without them.

The best pony pair I ever met- and the owner then went on to expand to a four in hand- was a pair or full brother, entire section B Welshmen. They shared a stall - double size. When she got the next two (as youngsters) she took down another wall.

They lived together all their lives, and went out together every day. Smart little greys- looked fantastic as a team and SO together.


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## paintponylvr (Oct 30, 2011)

Leia -

Thanks, I've attached the "safety check" to their halters. Right now, I'm still more comfortable with it on (along with a breeching tie) - I'm still just green enough myself that I think it's a better idea. I just don't always catch a problem fast enuff yet to correct it before it gets out of hand (such as pulling apart) and have already discovered the "woes" of having the buckle of the "stub line" caught in the rein turret.

My original pair is already starting to stay in place w/ their butts (next to each other) so may be removing the breeching tie (can always just keep it with me or leave attached to the breeching ring on one harness).

Here's a shot going down the road with the mare on the right being her first time hitched! Great fun - I was so excited. The next day I came home from work with a temp of 103, and a sinus infection raging so I havent re-hooked that pair yet... Hope to be better next week and can hook them several times (I hate going to long in between initial hooks, tho this mare looks to be OK with that - not crazy wild - and LOVES going down the road).


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 30, 2011)

He's getting there....slowly!


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## targetsmom (Nov 27, 2011)

Well, after a slight detour, we are back to Dancer's driving training. Clearly, we are in no particular hurry to get her driving, as I think I mentioned a few pages and several weeks back! Her jumping & trail training are coming along great though, and I can enter more than one mini in those classes.

I am posting this photo from today which at first glance may look a lot like the OP, but I hope we have made SOME progress! This time she is on long lines and working off the bit, not the longe line attached to her halter. And no side reins!! Oops, I see there is no contact on the inside rein though.






Next is this ground driving photo, which I think shows how well she is reaching down for the bit with a very loose check. Curious to know if you agree or not.






And here she is ground driving down the driveway and looking nice and relaxed. We still have lots of work to do but I see progress!


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## WillowDust (Nov 28, 2011)

My girl Willow who has never seen a harness in her life stood tied for a half hour while i tryd to figure out the darn thing, on her! I was so pleased with her. the only thing im haveing trouble with is the bridle part....how complicating....but she always stands perfectly and for however long i need.

probably gonna actually start walking with it tommarow. also gonna need a new bit for it.

no pic yet will upload soon


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 28, 2011)

targetsmom said:


> Well, after a slight detour, we are back to Dancer's driving training. Clearly, we are in no particular hurry to get her driving, as I think I mentioned a few pages and several weeks back! ... Next is this ground driving photo, which I think shows how well she is reaching down for the bit with a very loose check. Curious to know if you agree or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She looks good, Mary! I agree that she's reaching nicely in the photo above- does she get a really forward, rolling walk when she does that? It such an awesome feeling as they first experiment with stretch!

I haven't had so much as a halter on my boys in weeks, we've reached the season of winter rains where driving is just about impossible because they're so wet all the time.



Can't WAIT until the back-ordered rain sheets I ordered show up in late January!! Both boys are cranky at the pause in their interesting driving work.

Leia


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## targetsmom (Nov 28, 2011)

Hi Leia- Thanks for the comment. Yes, she has this absolutely incredible forward walk and will keep me fit as I try to keep up. It is very relaxed and I don't want to do anything to change it. She gives me some (albeit rare) awesome feelings already!


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## islandminis (Nov 29, 2011)

WHEWW! just read thru this entire post! took 1 1/2hrs and my head feels stuffed full of information. Now I just have to review(after I let my eyes and brain rest). So much to learn, but I have already spotted some things that I need to correct when I harness Bo and Chocolate. I think they are going to be happy that I have somewhere to learn and quit making things difficult for them



There is no one here on the Island to learn from so I can only get lessons infrequently - usually means a special trip in on the ferry. Your pictures really explain a lot. Thanks


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## Wings (Dec 13, 2011)

What a great thread!

I'm a harness rookie! My first harness horse is getting started in about 4 to 6 months which I'm really looking forward to.

For now I'm just trying to learn whatever I can so I guess I'll be spending a lot of time in this corner of LB


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## fourluckyhorseshoes (Dec 13, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


>



I love your improv/training cart. How did you make it? Was it difficult? I would love to have one for the gelding I am working with.


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## Linz (Dec 13, 2011)

Having an awesome time reading the posts and seeing the pictures.

I thought I'd go ahead and post the pics of my 36", 3 year old unregistered gelding (he's about 4 now), Stihl. He's my first horse, and full of personality. Had to break his habit of rearing and all before I even attempted to start training him to cart. Also sacked him out, and did some bomb-proofing exercises.

Started with him about two years ago, with a home made surcingle and his halter. And then ground drove, miles and miles total while getting voice commands established. He was driven by cars, trucks, busses, barking dogs, etc. And the _only_ thing he ever had a problem with was/is drainage culverts. We'd just be jogging along, come up to a culvert, he'd notice and either a) he'd swerve about 10 feet away from the culvert and keep going, or b) screech to a halt and want to turn around. I believe he swears there are trolls in there that want to eat him. He also has a thing for driveways... he always wants to go up them. One thing I did train him to do a little differently is that if he's going to stop, unless I tell him to halt, he's to go to the side of the road. Now, if he hears traffic coming behind, he goes to the side and stops.

About a year ago, I finally got a slightly used betathane harness, and got him used to that a piece at a time, then started ground driving with that. I can only remember one incident with that; a bucking fit when he got to a canter with the crupper just added. A few months after I started hooking him to a garden cart for a little rattle and weight. Never had an issue with it, so I started adding weight to it.

Then, roughly six months ago I finally got a cart. It's not the most beautiful thing on the planet, but it's sturdy. Everything is welded, and aside from the wheels, there isn't a bolt on it.

The pictures are from the first ride I had in the cart with him. This was one of two times he's ever spooked while hooked to the cart. I didn't know that my husband was in the ditch, with the camera, waiting for us to get close enough to take pictures. Both of us jumped, and Stihl swerved to the curb. The only other spook was when I had a failure in the harness at a fun show, and the over check snapped, smacking him in the neck. Other than that, he's been practically bombproof. That includes when we had an oncoming car come within a foot of the cart (we were at least four feet from the yellow line). I was having a heart attack in the seat, and he just kept walking.

Still learning a lot, and we both still have a lot to work on. The saddle is placed a bit further back now, and I'm working on getting larger wheels. Trying to find a parade to take him to this Christmas... have bells and some battery powered lights to "torment" him with.


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## paintponylvr (Dec 13, 2011)

just wanted to say that I've learned a lot from this thread! Love all the pictures.

Unfortunately, I don't have a camera anymore - it died. Also, due to a lingering illness, I really hadn't done much ground driving with my 3 - 2 yr olds.

The other evening, I had a short amount of time and grabbed up 2 of the 2 yo. I didn't take the time to actually groom and fully harness either one - just fit them with bridles (they've both grown!), hooked up lines and moved out of the barn to start "driving". As I drove each one, the other got lots of practice with standing alone in the barn. Now, when I refer to driving (especially right now - also dealing w/ a knee that I wrenched earlier this year and it just hasn't healed all the way or properly - now doc wants an MRI scheduled as w/ palpation & exrays can't find anything wrong), I'm essentially lounging with very short drive lines/times when I'm behind them before either continuing in the same direction or switching directions. My lines are 25' long so I can let them get out in front of me a bit or can either reel in the lines or have them drag behind as I work my way up to the pony while driving...

Well, I was pleasantly surprised and later when I really thought about how each of them did - VERY excited w/ what was "non-working" progress! The two fillies are very different in build and attitudes - one very laid back most of the time, staid, a look around and "o" it's a nice day today" attitude, and the other more flighty, much hotter and wanting to "work" - preferably at a really long trot - "don't ask me to stop and stand" type of filly.

Started w/ the hot one - Flower. She started right out at a long, stretchy trot and I stayed well off the lines for quite some time of several circles at almost the end of my reach (so close to 50' circles)... The bridles are open, so she could see me for lounging instruction as I moved my body a bit and also asked with the lines for her to slow to a jog and then to a walk. She did let me know that she wasn't happy about slowing down and gaped her mouth a bit (no noseband either - need to either purchase dropped nosebands or make them), then suddenly, she responded - slowing, lowering her head and going into a nice, low/long walk!! I did several light changes of direction - trying to concentrate on my keeping hands light while also getting her to do what I wanted. Decided against keeping her at a walk, since she'd done well, and asked for trot again - woof - she was off to the races, catching me by surprise... I let her out as smoothly as I could but circled her the other way. I'd forgotten she could have high as well as "stretchy" trot - and those knees and hocks were both coming well up. I don't normally like seeing the height - prefer no wasted motion more forward than up - but wow, it was fascinating to see. I shook myself out of it, collected up the lines and now she's really upset w/ her mouth so I ask for a direct halt (voice as well as lines) and she stops though doesn't want to stand still. She'd put her tongue over the bit, so I approached and fixed the problem, petted on her neck and head (which she then lowers her head and 1/2 closes her eyes - good for her). So, I step aside and keep rubbing on her while letting the lines out w/o pressure on her mouth. Get out a ways, pick up some very lite pressure, she gives (I'm getting shakey, I'm excited) her jaw, drops her nose as I say waaalk, walk on, then she steps out. I get her to hold a quiet walk for a couple of strides and just as she's starting to act like she wants to speed up, I ask for trot again.

I maintained the contact (OMG, so cool, I just can't explain it) and get a nice slower jog - very responsive. I'm not behind her completely, but am using the lines pretty evenly on a somewhat circle. Then again, she starts acting like she wants to speed up and before she breaks, I shift over to more lounging mode and as she moves out I give her a kiss (her signal

to canter) and she smoothly picks up the correct lead. Again I shiver... One partial circuit and I pick up on both lines to ask for trot and slow my turning with her, then get a nice big circle the other direction, let out more line, relax and kiss again & she picks up the correct canter lead this directions as well. I now have to ask her to continue to canter as she's ready to "say" she wants to slow. We get two full circles and I ask for a gradual slow down thru the gaits to halt. Not only got a very smooth downward transition, but a soft and for the first time, a complete halt w/ no jiggling (for about 30 seconds but better than normal!!!). When started her back up, I circled the neighbors truck - he'd stopped in to watch - and some buckets in front of the barn and sent her over the tarp. Didn't like that one bit, but didn't refuse. leaped off - tho I tried to give w/ my hands it was too fast and I caught her and she landed hard w/ her head in the air and her eyes kinda wild (darn.



.) Ah, try again - and response better tho far from perfect. Once again this same direction - YES - calm and soft - walked straight across w/ no problems w/ mouth or bit... So I went ahead and quit on a great note (part of me wanted to continue...but sometimes better to stop rather than do same to other direction - at least to me). The total work probably lasted less time than it took me to type this - but it was pretty good!

2nd filly in a moment...


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## paintponylvr (Dec 14, 2011)

So, continuing my evening w/ the 2nd 2 yr old filly.

I swap the girls out and things seem to be ok until KoKo and I get out the door of the barn. As I step out and I'm going to go into combo lounge/drive mode - Flower isn't fidgeting at the tie spot, she's downright upset and is "screaming"! I start to ask KoKo to start out and she flirts her tail, lets out a kick w/ an explosive fart and launches into a full gallop (didn't I say that this was the quiet, laid back, staid pony?? Where did she go?). I quickly loosen the outside line, drop my lounging arm/hand and lock it against my side and pivot - letting some line out but not all of it. Not as smooth or as fast as I might like and she hits the end of the line - rather than circling, throws head up a little, roots at the bit and takes off forwards and circles me. Each time her front hooves hit the ground, she's snorting - sounding like a mini freight train (hmm, looking like one too!). OK, I expect this from Flower, not from KoKo, and once I get over my shock, I'm laughing... Neighbor, still watching, is confused and hollers "Is that what your wanting her to do? Why do you have her going so fast? I thought you were going to drive her ---- what R U doing???????????"

That snags her attention, she's getting tired and as suddenly as she started,she quits...O, NO, I respond and I kiss at her, point her forwards and drive her right back into a canter (which takes some doing, because once she's decided she's ok w/ everything, moving isn't on her agenda.). Then I take up the lines and "I" ask her to slow, and then halt. She's pulling somewhat hard, rooting out against all pressure. I step up to her head and check her teeth. I've read here that she might very well be teething and yes, she's got some teeth bumps now on her jaws. I don't feel any edges or ridges. Doesn't appear to be any problem w/ her cheeks either. So I stand back towards her hip, take a hold of the line on this side and pull it back and hold - she roots, then pulls, then relaxes and tips her head towards me as I drop the contact. Good girl. I take it again - she roots out again, holds her pull, then gives. Good Girl. I lose track of how many times I stand there and do this. Was I supposed to count?? I keep this going until she quits rooting when I take up the lines. Then I switch sides and do the same thing... By the time we've stopped, her breathing from her little tantrum has returned to normal.

We proceed to lounging/driving as I'd wanted to from the beginning. But she continues to root out now... hmm. So I continue to work with her - now asking her to give while doing short/small circles around me. She finally gets it!!! So I switch to lead you beside me and we head around the truck to the tarp that's on the ground. I didnt think anything of it - asked her to go over it. She only hesitates shortly but then I reach down and grab an edge to kinda bring up and it touchesher - and she leaps up into the air (o boy, again??). She lands and tenses - snorting. hmm. so I send er on the rest of the way and turn her around and right back over. She tries to blow out and go around - takes me a minute to get my lines right and get her across. But I get her faced the right way and keeps a hold of the lines and after first bowing one way, than the other, over she goes. AS i cross the center of the tarp, I reach down and reset it - pulling up a ridge like a jump. Turn right around and get over it! Takes a couple of gos before she realizes I'm serious, you will go across... Now the moving tarp, flapping against her legs, no problem. for whatever reason, the tarp looked different than it had the last time she'd been worked!

Now, I'm breathing hard - this has been a workout for me, LOL. So into the barn we go. Flower quiets as we move up next to her, remove equipment then pop over to the rack that has the clippers. KoKo stands quietly (AH - this is the filly I was expecting!) for her bridle path and lower jaws to be clipped. Swap fillies again and Flower is no longer ready to accept anything - striking and wanting to rear when I reach up to clip her. Not cool, little one, stand still! ..I have to admit - I may have made the wrong thing appear to be better, as I quit and turned off the clippers. I think I got thru w/ her bridle path and waited till she quit flinging her head about - but I'm not at all positive on that. Need to pull her out tomorrow and work w/ her again...

I nice work out for the three of us! I think I've only worked w/ the 2 of them for a total of 45 minutes...


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## shelterwood (Dec 14, 2011)

Paula,

Awesome write up! It's really nice to hear other people's experiences, especially with 2 year olds! My young girls alternate between having really great days and then some really lackluster days, but typically it is something I can identify that i did wrong. For instance, just the other day I had some daylight so i hitched my 3 year old to my stoneboat type sled so she could haul some manure for me. Well it was a cool day, and neither horse had any exercise in over a week (why must we work all day??). Well, I had an agenda....get the manure in the pasture picked up. I find that when I have an agenda, it typically ends up not working out well. So I hook her up and ask for a walk, which she does but with no steering. So we proceeded to correct that and head for our first pile.. Well, stand apparently had lost all meaning, so I was picking up manure one handed, which is really hard to do, so I could correct her gently if she moved. So, it wasn't going great, but my second mistake was not corralling her little sister, who proceeded to run and bump into her so she couldn't walk a straight line if she wanted to! Needless to say, we ended our manure moving session early. But I did ground drive both mares separately down the road a ways and both did amazing!! So I love hearing your challenges and successes with your little ones!! Keep it coming...

Katie


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## shelterwood (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi Linz! My mare has a real thing for culverts too, and no one has ever jumped out of one on us!! That would do her in completely in her mistrust of them. she especially hates them when you can hear water moving underneath them. I think it must have something to do with the sound and/or feel of the ground beneath them. Funny though, this same mare walks calmly over wooden bridge. She just doesn't like culverts. Looks like you guys are having an awesome time driving. Great job training her....she's your first horse? Ever? That's a major accomplishment!! Congrats!

Katie



Linz said:


> Having an awesome time reading the posts and seeing the pictures.
> 
> I thought I'd go ahead and post the pics of my 36", 3 year old unregistered gelding (he's about 4 now), Stihl. He's my first horse, and full of personality. Had to break his habit of rearing and all before I even attempted to start training him to cart. Also sacked him out, and did some bomb-proofing exercises.
> 
> ...


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## fourluckyhorseshoes (Dec 15, 2011)

Here is a progression of training Treasure-- I guess I kinda cheated because eventually he was sent to a professional trainer. I just didn't have the time to work with him consistantly.















At this point he was solid at ground driving







Thanksgiving weekend he came home. (My mom driving Treasure)


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## paintponylvr (Dec 17, 2011)

shelterwood said:


> Paula,
> 
> Awesome write up! It's really nice to hear other people's experiences, especially with 2 year olds! My young girls alternate between having really great days and then some really lackluster days, but typically it is something I can identify that i did wrong. For instance, just the other day I had some daylight so i hitched my 3 year old to my stoneboat type sled so she could haul some manure for me. Well it was a cool day, and neither horse had any exercise in over a week (why must we work all day??). Well, I had an agenda....get the manure in the pasture picked up. I find that when I have an agenda, it typically ends up not working out well. So I hook her up and ask for a walk, which she does but with no steering. So we proceeded to correct that and head for our first pile.. Well, stand apparently had lost all meaning, so I was picking up manure one handed, which is really hard to do, so I could correct her gently if she moved. So, it wasn't going great, but my second mistake was not corralling her little sister, who proceeded to run and bump into her so she couldn't walk a straight line if she wanted to! Needless to say, we ended our manure moving session early. But I did ground drive both mares separately down the road a ways and both did amazing!! So I love hearing your challenges and successes with your little ones!! Keep it coming...
> 
> Katie


Katie -

THANKS! Well, I have lots of writing material as I have not only the 3 2 yr olds but also 3 yearllings and 5 weanlings.

I'm not sure if I posted the story here of the weanling (in the training post?) that my youngest daughter has "adopted"... but she is ground driving a weanling colt. He's larger - being out of a 1/2 arabian/hackney pony mare and by my 40" Shetland stallion. She started out and goes back to driving w/ the lines attached to the halter under his driving bridle. But he's gone to 2 of her driving lessons and has had the lines hooked to the bit both times then... The other day when she had him out ground driving on the edge of the road - an ambulance and firetruck went racing by with horns blaring. She said he didn't even bat an ear (but it sure helps that the boys paddock fronts along the edge of that same road!).

I'll try to keep going with write ups - also, you could read the blogs directly on my website... Trying to keep them up!

Do you have pics of your "stone boat"?? I'd love to see! Need something like that...


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## paintponylvr (Dec 17, 2011)

4luckyhorseshoes -

I don't have a problem with a person sending a pony/mini to a trainer. I think it's great that you admitted that you didn't have the time to work your guy (?) consistently and sent him off to get what he needed. THATs AWESOME!! And now you have him back home and can continue - hopefully enough that he doesn't "lose" what you sent him out for...

Question - whom did you send Treasure out to? I'm looking around for a trainer/instructor. A trainer for some larger ponis that I don't have the time myself, nor the correct sized equipment for and an instructor to take me further with the ponies I'm already driving with and the youngsters I'm bringing along. I'm not a trainer - just prefer to do most if not all of my own training. Staying consistent with all of my own commitments is the hardest part! I have several trainers I've either already been in touch with or have on my list to get in touch with shortly... I have a couple that I just am not willing to send my ponies to, and unless they are sold, they'll will be pasture ornaments instead.


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## Linz (Dec 19, 2011)

shelterwood said:


> Hi Linz! My mare has a real thing for culverts too, and no one has ever jumped out of one on us!! That would do her in completely in her mistrust of them. she especially hates them when you can hear water moving underneath them. I think it must have something to do with the sound and/or feel of the ground beneath them. Funny though, this same mare walks calmly over wooden bridge. She just doesn't like culverts. Looks like you guys are having an awesome time driving. Great job training her....she's your first horse? Ever? That's a major accomplishment!! Congrats!
> 
> Katie


Hi Katie, and thanks!





Yep, Stihl is the first horse I've ever owned, and he was a snotty young stud to begin with. Experience training dogs saved me in the beginning, I'll tell you! I was one of those horse-crazy (not the silly pink and frills kind) tomboy girls, and did a lot of reading and video-watching. Had extended out-of-state family with ponies and full-size horses, but never one of my own.

Great idea with multitasking mucking with training! I don't know if I should ask this here, or somewhere else... but is it very important to use a curb strap on a mini while driving?


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## shelterwood (Dec 20, 2011)

Linz,

Of course you can ask that here!! You can even start a new thread about your bit/bits and questions and pictures you might have. The only reason you need a curb strap on a bridle is if you have a bit that requires one, and have the reins attached to one of the lower rings that actually activates the curb action of the bit. My mares both drive in a half cheek, single jointed snaffle or a French link or double jointed snaffle, as both are young and not in need of any curb action. Many driving horses, especially upper level horses, drive in variations of curb bits for different reasons, only one of which is forward motion control. More experienced folks correct me if I'm wrong, but some of these curb type bits assist in lateral movement and collection, as well as stopping power. So, if you have a bit that requires a curb strap, then yes you should have one, or else the bit at best is not doing its job, and at worst it may hurt the horses mouth as the curb strap is the stopping point for backward motion against the horses jaw. Hope that helps! And congrats on your first horse and what is obvious success in training. I've trained dogs too and many things apply to both!

Katie


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## shelterwood (Dec 20, 2011)

Do you have pics of your "stone boat"?? I'd love to see! Need something like that...

Paula,

I don't have any pictures of my skid sled, but I can explain it until I get some. It is really simple, and designed for use with snow mainly, but does work with dry ground with more drag. My husband took an old pair of very wide alpine skis and built a flat platform to mount them on. That's it. Originally it didn't have any shafts, but with the skis on snow brakes were needed, so we had shafts made by a friend who welds. It works great for hauling wood or just giving rides on the snow. I'll try to get some pics for you.

Katie


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## MajorClementine (Dec 23, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> Same thing goes for me....sounding like I am all hard nosed with no "touchy-feely"!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This thread has been a really fun read. I just have to say that I totally agree with Myrna here!


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## paintponylvr (Dec 24, 2011)

shelterwood said:


> I'll try to get some pics for you.
> 
> Katie



THANX katie! I always prefer to see pics - love it!!! Plus, I just can't quite picture the description, LOL.

I "sorta" made a drag and am looking to use it next week after Christmas. Riding lawnmower isn't working, don't have forecart yet, so need something to sit the trash bins on (32 gallon) that hold the manure from the barn. I will have at least 2 possibly 3 trips w/ 2 at a time. I'll use a panel that was originally from our round pen... it's cut down from a 52" 16' stock panel. I use a rope run thru the handles of the trash bin to hold them on/snug and ground drive the pony who is hooked to the drag using a singletree.

I can use either a single pony or a pair to pull this. I've used a single in the past. I wonder if i use the pair if I can put more "tubs" on the drag?


Yes, I think I should be giving her more direction thru contact on the lines... Both tubs are almost full here - headed to the compost heap. Yes - this is a breast collar harness, not a collar and hames harness. If do the pair - would use their collar and hame, farm harness...


Tubs empty and headed back to the barn. This mare is 38" at the withers...It took us a little while, plus later lessons, to get to the point I was doing a better job of "driving" her.


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## Elizabeth Pannill (Dec 25, 2011)

Had an early Christmas present this week. Got to drive my youngest ( 4 yr old ) gelding, Cinco for the first time ! He has been at the trainer since October and will be ready to come home mid Jan. I drove him in the arena then took him for a short drive on my friends trails.All went very well. My trainer has done a super job with him. He has a very good Whoa , a nice walk and trot with voice commands ! Not as much horse as my gelding , Magic but I did not think he would be. Cinco will be a blast to drive. Now I need to order a cart for him . He is 32.5 " and am considering the GS Trail cart for him . Just found out GS will offer marathon shafts for the trail cart in 2012.


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## Littlegoesalongway (Dec 31, 2011)

Had originally posted this in the pic/video section but thought you might enjoy it here as well.

It's a promo video we put together for our local carriage driving assoc. Video of the little bay mini is my little guy, Rowdy, at his very first indoor carriage race, his first Horse Driving Trial and an Intro To Driving clinic our club hosted for people that had never driven before.

Enjoy!


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 1, 2012)

That has to be one of the best videos I have seen- I'll bet you get a huge response from it.


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## Lil Timber Buck (Jan 1, 2012)

the last project isn't mine, but is definitely the most difficult. My farrier acquired a mini because he was getting too fat in the herd of large horses he was in, and his previous owner had no time to work him, and no way to separate him. She's offerred to trim for me in exchange for training him to drive, and boy is he NOT happy about that! Day one my farrier said she'd been doing some ground driving and she confirmed that he knew "Walk on." He's worn full harness, so I got mine all sized to him, gathered up the lines, told him to "walk on" and this is what I got:











The first time I've ever had a horse lay down on me, and I'll I wanted him to do was walk! He was being SO BAD and I couldn't stop laughing. Training at it's finest. Wow. Over three weeks we've progressed to this:






We now mostly have go (except for when we start backing up), and sometimes steering (but sometimes turning is cause for stopping). We do have a pretty good whoa.



He'll definitely be a gratifying one when he's going well!






I wanted you to know that when I read this and saw these pictures I literally LAUGHED OUT LOUD! I am glad to know that there are more people that train horses that have a sense of humor about things like this instead of getting frustrated and mad about it. These things are what makes training horses of any size fun! This is sooo precious thanks or sharing!!!!


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## Lil Timber Buck (Jan 1, 2012)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Man, that little guy is just DETERMINED!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He looks fantastic! I am not an expert by any means, but I like what i see!! Such a well-collected little guy! Great job!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 12, 2012)

Littlegoesalongway said:


> It's a promo video we put together for our local carriage driving assoc. Video of the little bay mini is my little guy, Rowdy, at his very first indoor carriage race, ...



Thanks! He's got a long way to go before he achieves actual collection, but he's doing well with bending and rounding up through the poll and those are the foundations.



Now he just needs time and miles to develop the muscle for hooking in the "motor!"

Leia


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## Stampedeoflove (Jan 15, 2012)

Great thread....here's my boy Taz. He's only been hooked up to the cart twice, the third time (yesterday) I climb in and took him for a few short walks. So far so good for this level headed little guy. Gonna go slow and increase expectations as I feel he is ready to fulfill them.

First time hooked to the cart-


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## fourluckyhorseshoes (Jan 15, 2012)

Hey Tara-

Taz looks great. Does he seem like more of a WCP or a CP horse? Are you going to bring him to Spring Fling this year? How is Lola's training going?


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## TMR (Jan 15, 2012)

I will add my newest one to the group, but he's a pony. I bought him this past Feb. He is Longmans Legacy Lexington "Lex". He is 43", mostly shetland, coming 4 yr old gelding and I absolutely love him. He has the best personality and is quite the ham (I call him my big dork). He will be showing CDE's mainly. He has been started very slowly as mentally he was not there yet. However the last month, he is really coming around and growing up, so the real work is beginning. In the pic, he is driving a Glinkowski marathon carriage. He is going downhill so has shortened up a bit behind holding it back. I just got it New years eve and had to hook him up to it to see how it fit, so was able to get a few pics. However, he will not be pulling it much for a while, as it is 240 pounds and with me on it, he is pulling his full weight. He is not developed enough yet to pull it easily, so will condition him in the 2 wheel cart until he is more muscled and fit. The plan is for him to do the combined test (dressage and cones) this summer and do his first full CDE (including marathon) next spring.


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## Katiean (Jan 15, 2012)

ironbessflint said:


>


He looks like he is just gonna gag on the whole concept of driving.


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## targetsmom (Jan 20, 2012)

Weather hasn't been too cooperative around here for training, but some fresh snow gave me an idea. I thought a sled being pulled over the snow would be a good thing to get Dancer used to before maybe having her pull it when the snow gets deeper. This did not go quite as planned:

http://s84.photobucket.com/albums/k29/targetsmom/?action=view&current=P1040286.mp4

Rusty had his own ideas about this! I just about fell over laughing the first time he did this and by this time he was getting quite good at it. The good news is that is Dancer right behind him (probably getting some very bad ideas) but clearly not at all concerned about the sled. And I did pull it along while leading her and she was fine with that too. But not the training session I had envisioned!


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## Equuisize (Jan 20, 2012)

TargetsMom, I had to come over and see your video you mentioned on Zakky's snow thread.

That's about the exact opposite reaction......I think he's of a mind that turn about is fair trade and maybe you should be the horse and he'll be the driver.

What does go thru their minds? LOL LOL


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## Stampedeoflove (Jan 22, 2012)

fourluckyhorseshoes said:


> Hey Tara-
> 
> Taz looks great. Does he seem like more of a WCP or a CP horse? Are you going to bring him to Spring Fling this year? How is Lola's training going?


Not sure where he falls yet....but I'm thinking Country Pleasure. We'll know more once we get him moving out. Cart training never agreed with Lola. Could not get her to relax & she's have violent kicking spells (even with a bucking strap). She decided that she preferred Obstacle & Liberty. Hoping to get to the Fling. Just depends on $$$


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## Stampedeoflove (Jan 22, 2012)

Taz today. It was pretty cold & the ring was very wet, so we just went easy. Pretty good though for only his third time.


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## jegray21 (Jan 23, 2012)

I have seven in training..sizes range from 34 inches to 30 inches. I do have two that will make a nice pair..and two that would be fun to do a tandem with. Right now Ace is my most advanced horse he is six this year and we did some horse driving trials last year that went well.






This picture is after two years of training. I did start him side reins and found that he tended to get behind the vertical and heavy in my hands..they have their place in ridden Dressage training but I have found that when driving my progress in teaching stretching to the bridle tends to be better without them...and yes in the beginning I thought there was no other way to start a horse : ) guilty of narrow mindedness. I have been blessed with seven different minis to start on my own and train and with each one I have learned so much!






This is Star. He is just three this year and has had a an up and down training program! He was the most stubborn out of the seven that I have in training. I did not start him in side reins at all and am finding that he is finding the concept of contact and stretching pretty naturally. He does not have a strong hind end or big gaits so I thought any kind of force to get a frame would just shut down the hind end and the little gait that he has. This is his first drive after six months of long line work. I was happy that he was moving out freely and was not worried that he was not "on the bit" that day

I have pics of long lining and lounging and can post later today, Some with side reins and some without so maybe we can see the difference in the two ways. Ace is a great example he get so tight and behind with them even if he is moving forward...training is a process and should be ever evolving, its nice to see everyones process on this thread!


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 23, 2012)

I love that little cart- the second one- who makes them???


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## jegray21 (Jan 23, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> I love that little cart- the second one- who makes them???


Not sure I found it in North Ga..It's a great little training cart..it looks like someone made it from pluming pipe..


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## Stampedeoflove (Jan 29, 2012)

My ring is slightly slanted which is helpful and not so helpful.


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 29, 2012)

Looking good!

Just a suggestion, well, two actually. In the video your shafts are lower and it all looks a lot better, with the cart better balanced, in the stills the shafts (ie the tugs) look a little high and this makes it hard work for such a little chap. The other thing is the check- you probably know that I consider all check reins to be the work of the devil, but being serious, you need to loosen it off quite a bit, it is quite obvious form the video that it is aggravating him, not being able to get his head down and pull properly- is there really any need to have a fairly tight check and a martingale just for pootling around your yard??

Not trying to be picky here, he looks good over all, and well done to both of you.


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## Stampedeoflove (Jan 29, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Just a suggestion, well, two actually. In the video your shafts are lower and it all looks a lot better, with the cart better balanced, in the stills the shafts (ie the tugs) look a little high and this makes it hard work for such a little chap. The other thing is the check- you probably know that I consider all check reins to be the work of the devil, but being serious, you need to loosen it off quite a bit, it is quite obvious form the video that it is aggravating him, not being able to get his head down and pull properly- is there really any need to have a fairly tight check and a martingale just for pootling around your yard??
> 
> Not trying to be picky here, he looks good over all, and well done to both of you.


Thank you Jane. This is the first horse I've ever trained for cart so any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. I have a decent working harness and although it's for "A" minis, I've have a heck of a time getting the fittings small enough for Taz. I did manage to loosen the check today and he seemed happier about it. The shafts are deceiving in the still photos because they were shot as he traveled uphill. The video and stills were shot at the same time. Thanks again for the tips, that's the best part about this thread


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 30, 2012)

I did wonder if that was the case- Oh and put your foot back in the cart- you'll get it stuck under the wheel and kill yourself, naughty person!!!

Take the check rein off altogether, would be my advice, of course, I hate seeing them on little horses. At the very least, take it off, find out where he wants to put his head, and then adjust accordingly, same with the martingale- just because they come on the harness does not mean you cannot put them in the bin!

Your horse will thank you.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 6, 2012)

jegray21 said:


> I have seven in training..sizes range from 34 inches to 30 inches. I do have two that will make a nice pair..and two that would be fun to do a tandem with. Right now Ace is my most advanced horse he is six this year and we did some horse driving trials last year that went well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pix would be great! I really enjoyed watching you work with Ace through your posts and he ended up doing so well for such an early stage of training. Love him!

I don't have any new pictures of my greenie driving. I have the ones I never posted from the driving trial last fall, a few from a quick photo hitch I did at Christmas, and then some short videos of him and his buddy dragging storm debris out of their paddocks in January but he hasn't really been in the cart since September. We're just getting back to work now.

Leia


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## Stampedeoflove (Mar 11, 2012)

Taz today. After about 6 weeks of cart training (driving maybe three times per week). The area had been tilled up a bit so it was rather deep and uneven, but he still did well for the limited times he's been driven away from home (not to mention the little doggie distraction-not my dog).


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 12, 2012)

Ooo, pictures AND video! How cool! Love the little dog, talk about good desensitization training.



I'm pretty sure Kody would have tried to stomp him, not sure what Turbo would have done! LOL.

Your little guy looks very good and I'm glad he could get his head down far enough to try and move properly through that deep footing. He was making an effort to track up from behind (difficult for a horse who is built downhill) and kept a fair amount of impulsion for both his experience and the footing. Keep it up!

Leia


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## Stampedeoflove (Mar 12, 2012)

Thank you Leia  I had not seen how the show cart looked on him till the video and pics yesterday. I plan to shorten the shaft loops just a bit to bring the shafts up level. I'm very proud of Taz. He always tries so hard for me.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 12, 2012)

Excellent, that was the only fix I was considering saying something about.





Leia


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## targetsmom (Mar 14, 2012)

I decided to post on this thread because Dancer is featured in the first post. I know we are progressing a lot more slowly than others (and Stampedoflove, Taz looks great!) but we haven't been in a big hurry. I say haven't been, because Dancer is doing well now, spring is showing signs of arriving, and I am getting more anxious to get her hooked. Photos from today, which was her first day in this bridle and new Myler bit. She loves the bit but the side check was too tight so we ended up unhooking it and letting it flop for most of the session.

We started in the back yard with the home-made travois we first used yesterday:







We didn't do much of this because she was totally unconcerned about it, even when I ran into the snow plow and the poles came apart!

Then down to a new place - the lower pasture: Trot on double lines:






Halt: (not square, but immobile and quiet). This needs the most work.






And a brief trot so i get some exercise!






To be continued some day... maybe the next update will show her hooked to our cart!!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 15, 2012)

She's a gorgeous horse and I love the pictures, Mary! Can't wait until it's dry enough here to get some of our work. I notice you're doing your double-lunging with the lines through the rein terrets instead of down around her hip. Do you have any problem with her falling out through the rear that way, or trying to spin or anything?

Leia


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## targetsmom (Mar 15, 2012)

Thanks Leia! Of course when I started double longing the reins were down around her rear end, but then I raised them up and she seems to do just fine. Well, she does tend to turn in sometimes when she halts, but her bend on the circle is wonderful and this way I can reverse her easily and go back to ground driving. That was what I was doing yesterday - ground driving her at a walk all around the pasture which was new to her, and then doing most trotting on the double longe. We actually have had more trouble with the spinning when driving from behind when she decides that is NOT where she wants to go! Like away from the barn or when she thinks she should be done! But she is improving all the time. Oh, and I think she figured out quickly that she couldn't spin in the travois. I started all of ours like this - blinders & breeching from day 1, moving quickly to the turrets, and never working inside a ring because we don't have one. I think it helps in the long run.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 15, 2012)

targetsmom said:


> I started all of ours like this - blinders & breeching from day 1, moving quickly to the turrets, and never working inside a ring because we don't have one. I think it helps in the long run.


How so?



I ask purely for discussion as it's always interesting to get other people's points of view on things, not because I disagree. You know I give both my kids a LOT of real-world work as my only "arena" is a small cleared and fenced area on the top of the hill so we do most our driving on the road but I found I had to go back and do a lot of training there with Turbo this spring because he found it so much more boring than The Great Wide World and didn't want to focus or be forward. I needed to limit him to that venue for awhile until he got over his tantrums and realized that together the work could be interesting no matter where we are. Then I felt comfortable letting him out on the road again. I know other people do nothing but arena work and then their horses are insecure and unable to focus when there are distractions around but it seems to me in either case you have to be careful to balance your work environments or the horse will have problems.

Breeching from Day 1 does no possible harm I can think of except that in rare cases it can distract a green horse from the real lesson you are trying to teach. I'm thinking of Turbo's tendency to focus on how it hit him repeatedly in the arse as he was cantering on the longe and start bucking rather than working! LOL. But that just meant we spent that day with the breeching BEING the lesson, and the work came another day. He has no problem with normal light leather breeching, it's the heavier padded sport harness breeching that he thinks is a bit much when it isn't tied down.





Blinders though I'm not sure are a great thing to start the horse in. They can be fine, I mean Kody was started that way and it did him no harm, just like having a check on from Day 1 he thought it was normal and therefore didn't resent it at all. But there's so much you can teach a horse in open bridle work, and it also means you KNOW they're safe if the blinkers ever slip and the horse sees the cart coming behind him. There's also a purpose to blinkers, don't get me wrong, but it's nice to be able to switch back and forth depending on your focus for the day.

Same thing with the rein terrets. Turbo was able to go off the saddle terrets immediately and has not had problems with that but I find he does BETTER work with the line down around his rump and it provides additional desensitization to lines around his legs and things rubbing on his haunches. I didn't like it at first, I'd always found it difficult to do with Kody. But Turbo has no withers so the pad tended to roll on circles and I was forced to learn double-lunging



and now find it a very versatile method. It seems if I want good bend I can either have him far away and use the outside line to help him or I can ground-drive and use the whip but I can't have him out on a circle too far away to use the whip and not have that outside line down. At least when we're only using the surcingle; it seems to be different when he's got the whole harness on.

So anyway, what specifically do you see as helping in the long run? Enlighten me! It's pouring rain, I can't train and I want to talk horses.





Leia


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## targetsmom (Mar 15, 2012)

Leia- I am by NO means an expert in driving training, and indeed I look up to you and always appreciate you comments and insight. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I started all of ours this way and so far 4 of them got hooked to the cart uneventfully. Two got little or no work after being hooked, for one reason or another (one was re-homed, the other is our stallion who has another important job!) but everything went smoothly to that point. The other 2 are reliable driving minis. Maybe it is the big horse trainers I work with or listen to that are rubbing off on me. One trainer gets his horses hooked within one ONE WEEK of their arrival at his place. Certainly that is not a goal of mine, but it also shows how wide opinions vary on training!

I guess a lot depends on the horse's reactions and how the trainer responds. Dancer had issues with the breeching at first and did a lot of bucking on the longe. But I figured she was going to have to get used to straps and things under her tail eventually, so why not at the beginning? One thing it helped was our communication - she would tell me right away when something got under her tail, or was really bothering her - and I would fix it. We finally arrived at a compromise where the breeching was tied up but still attached and loose enough that it wasn't pulling anywhere.

My comment about helping in the long run is due to my changing my mind and thinking I would now like to hook Dancer sooner rather than later. And if we hadn't gotten her used to the blinders or the breeching already, I would have to "stop" as it were, and get her used to those now. But they way we did it, she is well used to both already.

I think the main thing is to listen to your horse and be willing to find another way if what you are doing isn't working. Also, when ours are being trained to drive they are also getting a lot of in-hand work in halter (no blinders), including walks down the road and in the woods, and lots of work with obstacles. And Dancer - because she is already coming 4 - is working over jumps too. NOT IN HARNESS!! I have to admit, my driving trainer is horrified at the idea that a horse can do both - jump and drive.

And being used to driving or working away from the herd (down in the pasture) should pay off at horse shows. You are lucky that you can drive on your road, but I don't dare. We live on a narrow, straight road which happens to be a shortcut, and drivers are CRAZY, despite all the horse crossing signs.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 21, 2012)

targetsmom said:


> Maybe I have just been lucky, but I started all of ours this way and so far 4 of them got hooked to the cart uneventfully. ... The other 2 are reliable driving minis.
> My comment about helping in the long run is due to my changing my mind and thinking I would now like to hook Dancer sooner rather than later. And if we hadn't gotten her used to the blinders or the breeching already, I would have to "stop" as it were, and get her used to those now. But they way we did it, she is well used to both already.


Ah, gotcha!! I tend to get very caught up in training "deep skills" because that's what I, personally, get a kick out of and sometimes I lose sight of how the rest of the world is doing things. Thank you for clarifying your training goal so I could make sure we're speaking the same language! If the goal is to teach them to pull a cart safely and happily then your comment about the long run makes perfect sense and is right on.





It's funny how everyone does things differently. I know quite a few breed show drivers who put them in the cart right away (skipping all the safety preliminaries that I know you cover thoroughly) and an equal number who keep them completely OUT of the cart until the last minute like the actual pulling-the-cart skills are an afterthought to a driving class that's all about headset and action. I think either one of those approaches is asking for trouble as both ignore the need to educate the horse about his job and how to handle things that go wrong. You KNOW they will someday, that's the nature of driving!



But there is absolutely nothing wrong with handling things as you do, going through all the prep and safety steps but focusing on the basic skill of getting the horse driving and then doing the rest of their training once they're in the cart. I did it the other way around because I didn't want Turbo doing hard physical work with his fine legs and bad stifles until he was as mature as possible but he was ready to learn so we started with dressage and road work in the same way breed show trainers will start with headset and pushing them up. You started with a physically mature horse with no issues so you didn't have to do things that way. You got to skip right to the fun part!



Lucky!



targetsmom said:


> And Dancer - because she is already coming 4 - is working over jumps too. NOT IN HARNESS!! I have to admit, my driving trainer is horrified at the idea that a horse can do both - jump and drive.






:whistling





So you're saying I shouldn't admit to having long-lined Kody over jumps in the past? In blinkers?





Have to admit, he was horrified over that one too! Slammed on the brakes and gave me this _look_ like "Jump? In blinkers? Are you NUTS?!" I had to reassure him that he wasn't hitched before he'd do it.



That proved to me that horses are more than capable of separating their jobs since he knew he shouldn't leap over things when wearing driving equipment.

Leia


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## Stampedeoflove (Apr 9, 2012)

Taz's first time shown in harness was this past Saturday at the Oak Ridge Horse show. He was such a good boy. Photos can be found in the photos section of the board.

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=128663


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## Jules (Apr 14, 2012)

5th ground drive. Note dog in background, it rushed at us with its hackles up. I was quietly and calmly,internally



freaking out, but my pony didn't bat an eye lid. I am still driving using the headstall, but will slowly introduce the bit over the next few weeks.

Still using lowest possible guide rings on the surcingle as he is so green, but he is turning and responding beautifully, so may move the reins up to a higher position after another week or two.






This next picture is a bit rubbish, but the general idea is that there is a noisy, rattling,screeching coal train going past. My 'photographer' was my 15yo son, I think he thought I was a giant weirdo for a) driving my horse in the first place and b)for wanting him to take pictures.


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## izmepeggy (Apr 16, 2012)

Jules said:


> 5th ground drive. Note dog in background, it rushed at us with its hackles up. I was quietly and calmly,internally
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Jules. Your doing really good with him..I still haven't ground drove on the road yet because I want to live a little longer..lol..We ride on the road with the big horses but with some Idiots around here I don't think they would have the patience if I ground drove.So for the time being I'm staying on the property..


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## Jules (Apr 16, 2012)

izmepeggy said:


> .I still haven't ground drove on the road yet because I want to live a little longer..lol..We ride on the road with the big horses but with some Idiots around here I don't think they would have the patience if I ground drove.So for the time being I'm staying on the property..


I live in a quieeettt country town. I don't think Alex (DS) would have ventured out with me if he thought we would see too many people.





The tarred road in the first pic turns into the dirt road in the second pic and is hardly used. I did encounter one driver who was very respectful and stopped and had a chat as he had trotters and was saying he had done what I was doing many times before but with a *slightly*  bigger equine.

Boo to crazy drivers where you live! How is your driving training coming along?


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## Marsha Cassada (Apr 23, 2012)

I have a new driving prospect. Tipsey is a shetland--my first shetland and my first mare. Very different than my miniature boys in the past! She was pretty much unhandled, and at first I did not think it was going to work out as she is rather spooky. But I've had her a month and feel pretty confident that we will be in the cart this summer. She is doing pretty well with the bit now. I don't start with blinders, but use an open bridle at first.

The harness goes to my sulky. I like to use it for training as it has a little breast strap that snaps to the saddle. No extra straps to worry about. I can put the reins through the terrets, or through the quick hitch rings down lower. She is uncertain about the crupper and the girth being tightened, but is getting better every time. So far we have only done our 2 mile walks with harness and bridle, but I'm hoping to try ground driving this week.

She is 36", and seems like a giant next to Dapper Dan. And she can MOVE. (My husband wondered if I would be scared to be in a cart behind her! Frankly, I think it will be exhilarating!)

To clarify my goal: a calm, safe horse to do pleasure driving with. I didn't know I would be starting over, training another horse, but I lost my Dusty right after Christmas. And Dapper Dan seems almost well of the stifle injury, but I don't want to take him far. I miss driving! Am anxious to get Tipsey going.

Not a good photo, but it's hard to take pictures by yourself. At least you can tell what she looks like.

http://www.cassphoto.com/tipseyharness.jpg


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## hobbyhorse23 (Apr 23, 2012)

Marsha Cassada said:


> I didn't know I would be starting over, training another horse, but I lost my Dusty right after Christmas. And Dapper Dan seems almost well of the stifle injury, but I don't want to take him far. I miss driving!


Oh, Marsha!! I didn't know about Dusty, I'm so sorry. How awful. My heart aches for your loss and I know exactly what you're going through with a horse recovering from injury and no one else to drive. It's a long, painful road! So glad your new girl is old enough to start driving right away.

Leia


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## sdust (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh Marsha, I did not know you lost Dusty. I am so sorry! Good luck with the new girl. I am heading back to Colorado on Sat. and will be back in Oklahoma in Dec. Maybe then we can go driving. Debbie Goad & Trey


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## Jules (Jun 15, 2012)

My 3yo gelding, taken this afternoon.

I have been ground driving him 3-5 days a week since the end of March or beginning of April. He has been put to a jogger cart once last week, but I didn't actually drive him, just let him feel the shafts and do some halts and quiet standing around. Driving is just around the corner for us now...


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## Marsha Cassada (Jun 15, 2012)

Jules said:


> My 3yo gelding, taken this afternoon.
> 
> I have been ground driving him 3-5 days a week since the end of March or beginning of April. He has been put to a jogger cart once last week, but I didn't actually drive him, just let him feel the shafts and do some halts and quiet standing around. Driving is just around the corner for us now...


I wish I were that close with Tipsey! You seem to have a nice, sensible boy. And lovely country to drive in!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jun 15, 2012)

Congratulations on reaching this point Jules! He is coming along great and you'll be in the cart in no time.

I was just looking for this thread Wednesday evening and had to leave my search (ok I got rereading some old threads and it took me a long time lol) while I got some things done. I must get pictures of my guy to post. He was ground driven lightly last fall with just his halter. This spring I started him carrying a bit them fitted him with a saddle/girth/back band and crupper and let him learn to accept those. Finally started ground driving again about a month and a half ago and he is now being driven in a set of pvc shafts (like a travois <_sp> ) _and on Wednesday (last day we worked since Thursday is booked with non horse things) we did a one hour cross country ground drive. This boy is *brave*, he so enjoyed our outing, no worries about any of the many new and surprising things out there. No concern he has left herd mates and his comfortable/safe pen. The only time he startled was when squirell popped up on a fence line and darted along the rail, then he took 2 quick steps with his head lifted then settled right back down. I am soo pleased with his progress,and so happy I chose to geld him last fall and make him a driving horse.


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## Jules (Jun 15, 2012)

That is a great! A really level-headed response to a squirrel, I think I would have run off screaming for the hills, glad your boy took it all in his stride.

I had my boy gelded when I got him and it made _such_ a difference, he seemed to let go of his macho small-man syndrome attitude



which would sometimes over-run his sweet personality. He is just such a softie now. Sounds like it is working out for your guy too Reignmaker.

Marsha Cassida, yes I am very lucky to live where I do. The pic I shared is alongside a residential street in the outskirts of my town and when you live in a small rural town like mine, the outskirts of town are never more than a 15minute walk


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## targetsmom (Jun 15, 2012)

I am so glad someone else picked this thread up again because I wanted to add to it too. LOVE the updates from all over the world! Can't wait to see your cart Jules and more of your beautiful scenery. And Marsha - SO sorry about Dusty.

Anyway, if you started at the beginning of this thread, I was training our new (in August 2011) mare Buckeye WCF Last Dance to drive. Well a lot has happened since then, most of it good and exciting, so plans changed. First we started a 4-H Club (took several months to get off the ground) which has been a wonderful new adventure, sharing our love of miniatures with youth of a range of ages and abilities. Then this spring we had a fabulous foaling season, with 3 live, healthy, and gorgeous foals. Dancer has not been easy to train, but neither was Princess, so that wasn't bothering me until I realized that neither of them would likely make good beginner driving minis. We needed a nice, quiet, sensible mini to drive, and in looking around the farm realized we had potential right under our noses: Taffy, a lovely moving 2 year old, safe for all the 4-Hers and already entered in the AMHA driving futurity for 2013! So I started working with her and she is just as sensible as she seemed and coming along nicely even though only 2! As you can see from the picture, she is pretty "sturdy" so I don't worry that she will have issues with the cart when hooked.

Meanwhile, we totally changed our minds about not breeding for next year, again thinking about the 4-H needs. We have one broodmare that is not too trusting, so not a good candidate for 4-H, but she gave us an awesome potential driving colt. So easy decision to breed her for next year. Then, just as we were thinking that two would be better than one, Dancer came into heat and she got bred the same week as Toffee. Yesterday's ultrasound confirmed both are in foal for mid-April 2013 foals!!






Having trouble with photobucket so I will attach other photos.


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## Jules (Jun 16, 2012)

I googled 4H the other night as I saw it mentioned so much on threads- it looks like an amazing program for youth! I wish we had something like that here. Good on you for starting own local club Mary



What sorts of things are they working on at the moment?

Taffy looks great, I love a bit of chunkiness in a horse.


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## targetsmom (Jun 16, 2012)

Our website now has a whole section for 4-H including photos of activities and we post the material we use for programs. So that way you can more or less see what we are working on at any time. We are starting showmanship today and will be having a lesson in driving soon!! The first lessons were basic horse safety, then grooming, leading, general horse care etc. Aimed at minis but useful for anyone, I think. Help yourselves to the info! There is also a general mini info sheet at another place on the website which has lots of links (of course LB!!), books, registries, etc.


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## Jules (Jun 18, 2012)

Great, will have a wander around your website with a coffee later






Here is a link to some photos from a social drive I took my guy on at the start of this month - I long-reined and managed to keep up and get really fit in the process 

http://trhdc.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=13475942

I think it is obvious who I am, only one with a 34inch pony and on foot.

Btw....

I DROVE HERCULES TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so proud and happy that I could cry






No photos as my 2yo has put my phone somewhere 'safe' but my pony was seriously AMAZING. There was one moment when I said a silent prayer as an empty coal train came past where I was driving him and empty coal trains are the one thing that can stil; 'set him off' at times (the full ones or freight trains never do as they dont rattle/rumble like an empty coaltrain), he shied to his off side, felt the shafts, listened to the reins and my voice and then proceeded to just continue walking calmly.

So so so so very happy!!!!


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## susanne (Jun 18, 2012)

.

CONGRATULATIONS, Jules and Hercules!!

This is indeed a momentous occasion, and one worthy of its own separate thread! I remember clearly the day we first hitched Mingus -- and the week that followed, when my feet never touched the ground...


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jun 18, 2012)

Way to go!!!! I look forward to pictures ( once you find that darn phone lol) I agree with susanne, news this big deserves its own thread.


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## Jules (Jun 18, 2012)

susanne said:


> .
> 
> This is indeed a momentous occasion, and one worthy of its own separate thread! I remember clearly the day we first hitched Mingus -- and the week that followed, when my feet never touched the ground...


You two just started my grin anew! Thanks for finding it as exciting too. I just keep saying to my husband - 'I drove him, I really,really drove him'. He is at the 'yes dear' stage now. lol

I intend to drive him again today and have found my phone (yipeee) so will take photos for sure. I just need to go and get two new innertubes for my tyres that decided to go flat during the momentus occasion.

His first little hill (before flats



) it took him all of about two secs to work out he really need to push into his breastcollar and as for pushing the shafts around, well, I think he really liked that as he likes to shoulder his way around the place and past the barriers into my husbands workshop as it is, actually being allowed to shove something around, well he was delighted!

His ears were pricked the whole time and he looked as happy as can be...much like his driver....okay enough excited rambling. pictures,I need pictures and then a thread


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## Stampedeoflove (Jun 25, 2012)

Update on Taz. He's been in training for five months and was named the AMHR Performance Horse Highpoint Champ Under last weekend at the ECMHC Summer Classic. Lots of videos under the Photos/video link. Driving video here-

[/media]


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 1, 2012)

Congratulations Jules and Stampedeoflove!! Both your horses are doing wonderfully.

Leia


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## Stampedeoflove (Jul 1, 2012)

Thank you hobbyhorse23  I've also started my mare Lola back with cart training. This little girl did not have a good experience a little over a year ago when first tried. She flipped, ran off, kicked, got her legs over the shafts, would shake violently as soon as she saw the cart, bucked so hard she would pee and you couldn't hold her. I relied on someone else to help me start her & for this mare he was far too "cowboy" for her nature. I started over with her about a month ago, taking our sweet time. I will post photos soon of the various stages that I've taken with her, but here's the latest video taken Thursday night of her first time trotting. She's a totally relaxed and different girl now.


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## Stampedeoflove (Jul 9, 2012)

Golden Meadows Heirs Dream Girl....back in cart training after some bad experiences last year. Doing great!!!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jul 10, 2012)

Stampede your girl looks great. I have been trying to convince someone that a horse who has a wreck in harness and is shook up by it (even badly)can still drive. After all, if we have a wreck with a saddle horse and it has a bad incident we don't give up trying to ride it, we back up, rehab and retrain. It isn't always a success but often it is, horses can get past some pretty bad things in the right hands. Good for you for not giving up on your girl.

I don't have any pictures yet but I have been working several horses this summer. I started my 34" gelding last year in ground driving and this spring I've gotten more serious about his training. Today I put the shaft thro the shaft loops for the first time and ground drove him while the cart followed him. He did amazing  At one point something spooked him, a bird I think, and he actually shied in place just like I have been asking him to.



*Whoo hoo Cruiser, that's my boy*





I also have begun ground driving my tiny 28.25" girl, she is doing pretty good. First horse I've ever had who took the bit like she'd always worn one and even knew how to eat grass with it in immediately (the little stinker)

The 3rd horse I'm working with at present is my SILs blue roan gelding who has been driven for about a month. He was doing well for her at first but suddenly decided he couldn't stand and would rear when asked to. He's here for some remedial work, to patch the holes in his training. So far I haven't hitched him again, we are working on 'whoa' 'stand' while ground driving. He's been with me for almost a week and I believe we are making progress. He's a very sensitive horse, cues must be quiet and matter of fact or he gets stressed. I now have a nice calm flat footed walk and(most of the time) he will stand alertly when asked to for about 30 seconds which is up from no time at all at first. He also has learned to walk off calmly when asked rather than jumping ahead at any word or movement from me whether it was a cue to walk on or not. He has a real desire to do the right thing but stresses when he is uncertain or confused. With consistency in his cues he will make a very responsive driving horse for her I think.


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## Marsha Cassada (Jul 11, 2012)

_I've had Tipsey for about 4 months now. She is coming along pretty well with ground work. Today my sister came over and helped me introduce the sulky shafts to her. I expected the confinement of the shafts beside her would be a problem, but she did fine. She is wary of new things, but once she is introduced to them, she handles them well. _

_She is my first shetland and my first mare. I'm having fun with her, but sometimes have doubts I will ever be in a cart behind her. We are going slowly. She is 4 years old and was barely handled before I got her. _

_She saw the chiropractor last week and had a few issues._

_A problem for me as trainer is being too soft. My strongest point is being able to take an unhandled horse and socialize him into a pleasant companion animal.	However, I am seriously considering sending Tipsey to a professional trainer, as I am not sure I am capable of getting her rock-solid in the cart. But I'll give us a little longer together to see how we progress before deciding._

_Another thing we did today was change bits. She was getting her tongue over the french link, so I tried the myler comfort bit. I think it is going to work much better for her. _

_Here is Tipsey ground driving. _

_www.cassphoto.com/tipsey7-10.jpg_


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## Renolizzie (Jul 11, 2012)

Marsha Cassada said:


> _I've had Tipsey for about 4 months now. She is coming along pretty well with ground work. Today my sister came over and helped me introduce the sulky shafts to her. I expected the confinement of the shafts beside her would be a problem, but she did fine. She is wary of new things, but once she is introduced to them, she handles them well. _
> 
> _She is my first shetland and my first mare. I'm having fun with her, but sometimes have doubts I will ever be in a cart behind her. We are going slowly. She is 4 years old and was barely handled before I got her. _
> 
> ...


Tipsey looks great. I have been thinking about a Shetland if/when I get another horse since I definitely want a horse that can pull two of us [Hubby is not a small man] in the cart. Of course, I would like to make sure I am doing really good with the horse I have before getting another one


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## paintponylvr (Jul 13, 2012)

Marsha Cassada said:


> _I've had Tipsey for about 4 months now. She is coming along pretty well with ground work. Today my sister came over and helped me introduce the sulky shafts to her. I expected the confinement of the shafts beside her would be a problem, but she did fine. She is wary of new things, but once she is introduced to them, she handles them well. _
> 
> _She is my first shetland and my first mare. I'm having fun with her, but sometimes have doubts I will ever be in a cart behind her. We are going slowly. She is 4 years old and was barely handled before I got her. _
> 
> ...


Wow - she is looking awesome!

Chin up, lady! If you've only had her for 4 months AND she was previously unhandled - you are coming along great. If you still feel that you need a trainer because you are "green" - then go for it - because then when she comes home you can just get in the cart and start adding miles. But otherwise, she's coming along well and you know exactly what you've done with her and where the pair of you are at.


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## Knottymare (Jul 18, 2012)

I've been away for a year and a half... Looooooooong story, surgeries, broken bones, very sick... but I'm back and I'm happy to report that while Dolly was sitting around in the pasture, she must have been thinking about all the fun stuff we were talking about doing while I was doing her ground work...

Finally able to limp around a bit with my daughter in town to help, we warmed Dolly up and by Sunday, she was ready to actually put to the cart.

first, we just lead her around






Then we tooled around the pasture






Made some adjustments to the harness fittings and today we drove around our quiet little neighborhood while my daughter rode our big horse.

We aren't looking for fancy, just safe and fun and after the year I've had, finally getting in my cart was just amazing. We still have a ton to learn but at least we are making progress.

Now, I need to get a comfort fit breastcollar, some breaching, road wheels... and get ready for the trail!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jul 19, 2012)

WHOO HOOO!!!! Not only did I get my 5 year old driving but I actually got pictures of his very first time in harness. I can't tell you how excited I was to finally after all these months of waiting for him to grow up physically and mentally, hitch this guy and drive. He has a lot to learn yet, has to graduate into a closed bridle etc., but I am more than pleased with his progress.



Please ignore the over weight driver with the terrible posture, didn't realize how bad it was until I saw the pictures ... yikes, I'm going to have to work on that.


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## DOLINGERS MINIS (Jul 19, 2012)

I HAVE 15 MINI HORSES NOW AND I WANT TO LEARN TO TRAIN TO DRIVE ANY IDEAS ON WHERE I CAN GET STARTED


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jul 19, 2012)

Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> WHOO HOOO!!!! Not only did I get my 5 year old driving but I actually got pictures of his very first time in harness. I can't tell you how excited I was to finally after all these months of waiting for him to grow up physically and mentally, hitch this guy and drive. He has a lot to learn yet, has to graduate into a closed bridle etc., but I am more than pleased with his progress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just reread what I wrote and hope no one thinks I just decided one day he was going to be a driving horse and harnessed him up and drove him... These pictures are the culmination of months - no actually years- of carefully work preparing him for the day he would be between the shafts. In my excitement I may have not made that very clear.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jul 19, 2012)

Dolingers minis, if you have never driven before please find an instructor, someone who has experience driving and get some instruction before trying this on your own. It is a lot more difficult than it may appear to turn out a _safe_ driving horse and when you haven't any background yourself it may be impossible. If you can, send one of your horses to a trainer with some knowledge (not everyone who claims to be a 'trainer' knows much so look for horses they've trained and see how they behave) In the meantime there are many good books out there that will help you learn a bit. Good luck, driving is a great deal of fun when you and your horse are safe and happy.


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## paintponylvr (Jul 27, 2012)

I haven't kept up on this thread - and we have two getting a little closer to actually hitching.

Flower spent about 60 days with a freind of mine (fellow pony driver - Vicki) and got all the way to pulling a drag. However, I wasn't happy with some of her responses, so when she came back home she went out in the pasture for more grow up time (the other day Vicki helped me measure a group of ponies for harness and Flower was one we did. She commented on how much she'd calmed down and matured and figured we may have her ready to hitch later this fall). Here is a pic of her with me ground driving last fall almost a year ago as a 2 yr old, you can see she's still gapping at the mouth when any pressure or general contact is applied to driving lines -






and here is a pic of her earlier this spring before I brought her home (6 miles from our homes) -






We spend a lot of time with the driving lines not in the turrets but coming directly to our hands. This makes for easier circle or lounge driving - which I needed all last year and the first part of this year with my "good" knee having gotten wrenched and spending time in the knee brace. I just couldn't keep up with even the smallest mini shetland I own while straight line driving while I gimped thru the work out...LOL. I'm just now starting to ground drive my youngsters this year with them doing more straight line work with the lines thru the turrets.

Vicki asked if she could take on another for me - knowing that I was going to get Cassie going and wanted to see if I could have her ready to hitch and here Cassie is the 3rd time she was wearing blinders while in work harness. We are having problems with fitting this harness to her, so we are working with a couple of folk on that and have more adjusting to do. Also, I may have to get a custom made collar for her (found a couple of shops that do that - ouch - a little pricey!!) - but the 14" collars are too large and the 13"s are too small... She will be working, therefore Iwant her in a collar that fits... She is double registered AMHR/ASPC and her double reigstered 2011 filly will be showing at AMHR Nationals this year in the Futurity with Herron Stables for us.






I really like having freinds whom I "swap out" ponies and horses with!! It gives them some time with another person in another setting. It sure has helped this past year with my bummed out knee. While I kept up with chores, that was about all I've managed to do other than some driving of my green pair and getting the 3 abreast hitch going. Neither Vicki nor I are professional trainers and when it's really hot or exceptionally cold, we both often "wimp out" - especially in the past year when both of us have had some physical/health problems we've dealt with... So it takes us longer to get our beasties going - but we do eventually get there and when we think they are ready - they usually are!

Thanks for letting me share.


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## Knottymare (Jul 27, 2012)

paintponylvr said:


> I really like having freinds whom I "swap out" ponies and horses with!! It gives them some time with another person in another setting. It sure has helped this past year with my bummed out knee. While I kept up with chores, that was about all I've managed to do other than some driving of my green pair and getting the 3 abreast hitch going. Neither Vicki nor I are professional trainers and when it's really hot or exceptionally cold, we both often "wimp out" - especially in the past year when both of us have had some physical/health problems we've dealt with... So it takes us longer to get our beasties going - but we do eventually get there and when we think they are ready - they usually are!
> 
> Thanks for letting me share.


Wow, great pix. How fun to see the difference between the youngster and the more mature mare. She's a beauty.

I can really relate to working them with a bum knee. I have that along with a recently broken ankle to deal with. Mine sat for 18 months between ground driving and hitching - that 18 months did a great thing. It allowed my mare to digest everything and when we came back to it, she was ready as could be to get going.

I am finding that getting out on the road every other day is great. The alternate day is just brushing, smooching, eating cookies and mowing the lawn. Tough life.

Well done and lucky you for having a friend you can partner with!


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## hippocampe (Aug 5, 2012)

Here Icon's & my way to try learning to drive...

Like Dolinger's Minis I havn't any experience with driving. I've been riding for long years, but never have been interested in driving. That changed with the minis.

I started "mixed ground traning" with the longe on a circle untill Icon became really good and reactive to my orders, some clicker trainig to learn new things or to accept uncomfortable things like the girth on a positive way and just have fun, etc... I had no driving projects at that time






After this I started with the long reins... never done before, either Icon nor me. I have nobody to help me, at least nobody with competence. My teachers are books and patience... Possible that I don't do everything right, but I try to do it safe for the horse and me






Icon is every time very clever, volontary to learn, well it's great to work with him... and so came the idea to go a little bit farther... the idea of driving.

....

I ordered different books about driving, a harness and a cart. I still have not received my cart, but I still have enough preparation-work to do with Icon, before we can even think about hooking up the cart. My training-plan is a mix of what is explained in my different books

Icon had to get accustomed and comfortable with his harness...






...even in movement...






...


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## hippocampe (Aug 5, 2012)

And after that I introduced a kind of single travois, just for icon to feel a thing on his side "running with him"

It is a PVC tube, fixed on his surcingle with knot and trail, which can quickly be removed in case of panic.

Icon did it nice: no fear, no panic...just as he would have done this for years!







Because icon was OK with one PVC tube on his side, I introduced my "do-it-yourself-travois"... still done with PVC tubes and tape









When we did all this for a while, we started with some weight to pull... a tire:











so far... that's where we are for the moment. Pulling a tire is not so easy than all the previous steps: with the long reins and the tire, Icon is not consistently strait on, started to turn to look what is behind him, put his legs over the traces... all without panic, but while I do not have more control about this situation, it is not possible to think about the cart.

I will continue the training with the tire, alternate with my handmade PVC travois, untill we both -Icon and me- are really confident with theese exercices, before thinking about hooking up. At this stage I would'nt feel safe to sit in a cart behind Icon, and even not just to let him pull a cart.

So we go on with patience and common sense... there is no hurry


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 5, 2012)

Enjoyed your post and photos, Hippocampe. Icon is a handsome boy.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Aug 5, 2012)

Well done, Hippocampe! He is doing great and so are you. I really like that you are in no hurry to reach your ultimate goal and will patiently wait until he is ready to move on. you will have a better, more reliable driving horse in the end. And I agree with Marsha, Icon is very pretty.


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## hippocampe (Aug 6, 2012)

Thank you for my little Icon, he's really a friendly, volontary guy! Whatever I want to do with him, he has allways the same "Yessss, let's go!!"-attitude






... and no, I'm not in a hurry for driving: I'm a bloody beginner an learner by doing, so I don't want to land in the brambles


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 6, 2012)

Hippocampe, I needed this reminder to take my time with Tipsey. I'm getting impatient to get in the driving seat. I've begun long lining with her in the sulky. She's coming along very well, but I know in my heart she is not ready for me to get in the seat yet. 5 years ago I probably would have, but I will be 59 next month and don't bounce as well as I used to!


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## Stampedeoflove (Aug 6, 2012)

Golden Meadows Heirs Dream Girl after two months in cart training, made her show debut last Saturday. What a good girl she is. I still cannot believe it. She was considered untrainable last year after someone tried to break her. A soft touch and patience is all it took. She had a few spooks, but they were minor and she remained composed. Even when a full sized horse got loose from it's handler and ran around the arena during warm up. Wow!





















Some video here-

[/media]


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## hobbyhorse23 (Aug 7, 2012)

Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> WHOO HOOO!!!! Not only did I get my 5 year old driving but I actually got pictures of his very first time in harness. I can't tell you how excited I was to finally after all these months of waiting for him to grow up physically and mentally, hitch this guy and drive. He has a lot to learn yet, has to graduate into a closed bridle etc., but I am more than pleased with his progress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reignmaker, he's beautiful!! Really, really lovely.







hippocampe said:


> Here Icon's & my way to try learning to drive...Like Dolinger's Minis I havn't any experience with driving. I've been riding for long years, but never have been interested in driving. That changed with the minis.
> 
> I started "mixed ground traning" with the longe on a circle untill Icon became really good and reactive to my orders, some clicker trainig to learn new things or to accept uncomfortable things like the girth on a positive way and just have fun, etc... I had no driving projects at that time
> 
> ...





hippocampe said:


> so far... that's where we are for the moment. Pulling a tire is not so easy than all the previous steps: with the long reins and the tire, Icon is not consistently strait on, started to turn to look what is behind him, put his legs over the traces... all without panic, but while I do not have more control about this situation, it is not possible to think about the cart.
> 
> I will continue the training with the tire, alternate with my handmade PVC travois, untill we both -Icon and me- are really confident with theese exercices, before thinking about hooking up. At this stage I would'nt feel safe to sit in a cart behind Icon, and even not just to let him pull a cart.
> 
> So we go on with patience and common sense... there is no hurry


I seriously love this horse AND the job you're doing with him. Clicker training is a great way to introduce driving training and the spirit of play tempered with common sense and respect for your individual horse's temperment and needs will get you very far. Good for you! The pictures are also wonderful quality and it looks like you got him a good harness too, although I'm glad to see you padded that saddle.



Long-lining with a tire is actually much harder than anything else you'll do so if you can get that down, the cart should be easy. Try using some longer lines so you can stay back from the tire more and have him do figure eights without having to leap the drag yourself. (Been there. Dang near killed myself! LOL. At least the horse learned to stop and wait it out when his mother starts hopping about and cursing!)

My colt is finally solidly in cart and had his first couple of driving shows this summer, at which he handled the typical fifty new things in the first hour (horses driving around him, coming up behind him, having to stand in line in a big arena with others, switching equipment for Versatility, doing his first hunter rounds, etc.) with great aplomb and only a few small temper tantrums. I was glad our first class was a pairs turnout with Kody though as Turbo was rather freaked by having all those noises behind his blinders but he took his cue from his experienced buddy and did what I asked. By the time it was his turn by himself he was more excited by the other horses than scared of them and we just returned to basic exercises to refocus his attention after he was allowed to look a little. The only thing that really bothered him was being passed by his first "roarer" and I couldn't really blame him for breaking to a canter and trying to get away when that horse came flying up on his flank sounding like he was breathing fire. Poor Turbo! He settled quicker than I expected though and improved with every class. At home he's barely learned to hold a working trot but at the show he was managing actual lengthenings on demand! I'd prefer having the time to train them properly BEFORE the show (duh) but when it hasn't happened it's nice to know that they do get the idea from watching other horses. Nothing like the urge to keep up with the herd to get them going!





Here's a video still from one of his lengthenings.






I love how correctly he's moving for a green horse. The hind foot is landing before the opposite front hoof, the legs are perfect diagonal pairs, he's pushing off the rear...all he needs to do is flex at the poll a little more so he can come through the topline and it'd be perfect.



He only held it for a minute but that will change with training! (I did fix the caveson strap, I was very annoyed to see it'd been riding forward like that. Ugly!)

Leia


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## hippocampe (Aug 7, 2012)

Thank you for all the advices







> Long-lining with a tire is actually much harder than anything else you'll do so if you can get that down, the cart should be easy


Oh that reassures me, because for the moment that's really difficult. I can long-lining him with the tire just for a few meters before I loose control, he starts to turn his hindquarters or to step over the traces.

For the moment most of the time, I walk next to him, with a lead-rope while he's pulling, so he can get the feeling or it... and at the end of the session, we do a few meters pulling with the long reins.



> Try using some longer lines so you can stay back from the tire


My lines are long enough, look how they are rolled up my arm... I'm just still to awkward for using them in full length





I loose them, make knots, walk on them...I think I'll need much more training than Icon!







> At least the horse learned to stop and wait it out when his mother starts hopping about and cursing!)






Oh, I'm sure that can also be very usefull in some situations...



> it looks like you got him a good harness


it is the cariage harness from ozark with a V breastcollar http://minitack.com/mw135.htm

and: wow! your colt looks wery good on the photo! Nice long trot, and he doesn't look green... looks perfect for me!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Aug 7, 2012)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Reignmaker, he's beautiful!! Really, really lovely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW!! Leia, he is looking fantastic. You have every reason to be very proud of him and the work you've put into getting him to this point. Lovely!


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## studiowvw (Aug 20, 2012)

Hello, adding to this thread...

Here we are on our second drive this new "season" (after the heat and flies are over).

http://youtu.be/vDeLothvn1w

On a scale of 1-10 (brand newbie - very experienced) I'm about a 2.5 



 She has about 4 months total driving. I didn't drive her all summer, but hitched on Friday and today.

Just wondering if anyone could give me any times on how to improve. Or a couple of things we could work on.

I know her harness is barely big enough and plan to fix that britchen ASAP (meant to fix it over the winter but never got around to it).

Today was the first time we drove over the tarp obstacle at a walk and a trot. I also haven't done much backing up.

She is not very interested in walking, but as she isn't very fit, I thought she should walk for a few minutes before trotting. She would rather start trotting right off.

Thanks in advance for feedback.

Wilma


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