# Driving Tandem



## Marsha Cassada (Jan 11, 2009)

My two boys are 2 inches different in height, but I was thinking they might be able to drive tandem. I know there were some people who posted on here in the past who drive tandem.

I'd like to see those photos again, if possible.

Would the larger horse go in back, or does that have no importance?

One of my boys hates to work alone, without his buddy. I was thinking if I could work them in tandem, he would be happier. He is the taller of the two.

I'd like to try it with them, if possible.


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## JourneysEnd (Jan 11, 2009)

The horse in the back does all the work, so I would think the larger one for sure.

Al B drives tandem and I'm sure he can answer all your question. You need a tandem harness. It's harder than driving a team, easier than a four in hand. I've only tried it once but I've been thinking more about doing it as I can't afford a team carriage and it would give me a way to drive my boys as a team with a 2 wheeled cart.


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## disneyhorse (Jan 11, 2009)

I've seen both ways. Generally for the show ring, they like to see the "flashier" horse up front (more upright, more front-end action) and in the draft horse classes this is either the bigger horse (judges like the big ones) or one of the leaders (the biggest moving horses). So is one more flashy than the other?

That said, if you are just learning to drive tandem and aren't really trying to be competitive, you will want your more reliable, seasoned horse out front. The one that is least likely to give you problems. The front horse can easily duck out or SPIN and is much further out/less control/longer lines/no shaft support so it's important you have a sensible horse up there.

Andrea


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## MiniHGal (Jan 11, 2009)

Tandem is a heck of a lot of fun! In fact, I prefer it to pairs and fours....one for the equipment factor, and one for the fairly high sensitivity of connection (both horses have both reins going directly to your hands.

A few simple ground rules:

-only drive tandem when you have someone else there that is ready and able to help! Most instances, you should be able to untangle them on your own, but sometimes it all hits the ceiling fan and it is much better to have someone there to contain at least one horse. This is important...it is very unnerving to be 'stuck' in a moving cart because the wheeler is freaking out and deciding his best option is forward, and the leader is wrapping himself up and panicking because he's caught up in the traces and reins.

-make sure both your horses are well trained to voice commands, especially 'forward' ones and the all important Whoa.

-lastly, make sure they are both totally ok with straps around their legs, getting wrapped up, getting bumped by the other horse or the shaft, etc, etc. It is not fun driving a wheeler that freaks when he gets a leg over the leader's trace because the leader slowed down/shied/doesn't want to go where you are pointing, etc.

Despite the scenarios that I've outlined here, tandem is generally very safe, and very fun...but when things go wrong, sometimes it is worse than a single. It helps that minis are small, the horses make it more difficult when they panic. NOT trying to scare you away, just saying be aware, be patient and calm, and have a helper available.

On to your questions:

Generally, both you and Andrea are correct, the smaller, flashy, lighter one should be in front, but sometimes it just doesn't work that way. Quite honestly it doesn't matter for you which way you go. But I would recommend the one that is more responsive (forward is your friend with tandems!!), but is very safe and sane about getting tangled up and less likely to duck out on you (like Andrea said). Your front horse is bold, forward, but sensible and willing to listen.

I often start my tandems by driving the intended wheeler and grounddriving the leader as if they were in a tandem, but one person is on the ground with the leader, and one in the cart, and the two horses are not attached. This way you can assess how ok the leader will be with a cart and horse behind him, and what the wheeler thinks about being the follower. I will also ground drive them together in tandem so you don't have any cart complication if something goes wrong...but this can backfire on people and sometimes I don't do it, as the horses' walks are usually not similar enough initially to not be having issues (leader going too slow b/c confused, turns and looks, etc). A header for the leader helps immensely at this point.

I will get some pictures uploaded and put them on here soon. The great thing about tandem is you really don't need much beyond two single harnesses.


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## ThreeCFarm (Jan 11, 2009)

Marsha, maybe you should wait until Hawk is a reliable driving horse??? DD is a good boy, but last I heard Hawk still gave you trouble? That sounds like a recipe for disaster, if you ask me.


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## mgranch (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes pictures please with directions!! My husband and I are wanting to do a tandem this year too!! How exactly does the lead horse hook to the wheeler?? Do we need any additional tack?? I am so excited to see this thread!!


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## MiniHGal (Jan 11, 2009)

Yep...reliable driving horses are a must...

But here are some different tandems I've played with over the years. Only two of the horses are not mine....otherwise I confined it to my horses, so none of the other hitches as they aren't mine entirely. If anyone wants closeups of any of the equipment...I have some.

The earliest tandem I did. What else do you do when your driving horses are different sizes? We only actually hitched this once, as the size difference was too much to really do anything with. But their walks were, oddly enough, almost perfectly matched in speed.







And then this. They weren't a very good tandem because Dan is too slow really to be a leader for Fascination. But it was always entertaining.






I showed this tandem at a CDE (combined driving event) in 05 and unfortunately the show pictures are on my other computer. We did very well and I was very happy with them. The wheel horse is a friend's horse that was lent to me for use in the tandem.






Later, I was a groom for a pony tandem for quite a while, and we also played 'switch around' with the horses. The wheeler is one of her horses, very nice pony, who usually got to be the leader, but was too large for Fascination to be in the wheel and look good.






Lastly, this spring I decided it would be great fun to put Peeks and Fascination together. Maybe one day I will have the time to turn them into a very nice competition tandem, but I don't think I will have the time....


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## Boinky (Jan 11, 2009)

Tandem is a lot of fun and quite challenging. I would recommend getting a fatter LONG pair of reins for your lead horse so you can decifer easily the difference between each horses reins.

as for where the lead horses attaches tot he wheel horse it should be to the breastcollar/traces or the hames of the wheel horse. it should NEVER be attached to the cart as the lead horse can pull the cart over the wheel horse should something go wrong. I basically made my own gear out of harness's and parts that I had.

here is one photo from us at 2006 nationals.






Technically a tandem does NOT have to be a matched pair. they do not even have to be the same sizes. I would HIGHLY recommend having a steady sane easy to drive horse as your lead horse and even a well trained wheel horse. you don't want things to go to heck in a handbasket and have one or both horses freaking out...not a pretty picture! My wheel horse is 33" and my lead horse is 31".

your lead horse should not be drafting (ie. pulling). Your front traces should always have a bit of slack/sway in them only the wheel horse should be drafting.


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## End Level Farms (Jan 11, 2009)

I love driving tandems.

My first tandem team had a small mare up front and a slightly larger stallion as the wheel.

They did awesome. And loved it.

I always break mine to drive single before attempting tandem. Once they are fairly bombproof before training them to do tandem.

I usually always have someone with me when I drive tandem however for the most part I am not lucky enough to have driving knowledgeable people helping so I train them what to do in an emergency while I do everything to "Fix" what went wrong.

Everyone is capable of jumping in and helping sometimes its just to hold the horse while you fix things.

Once I win the millions I will buy a tandem Harness again and show in it again. As its sooo much fun.


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## Marsha Cassada (Jan 11, 2009)

The photos and experiences are most helpful!

I am thinking of trying this, as my lead horse is very experienced, and my wheel horse would follow well. Neither is bothered by straps and both know whoa.

If I decide to try it, I will certainly have a helper. And hopefully someone to take pictures!


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## BannerBrat (Jan 12, 2009)

[SIZE=12pt]Wow![/SIZE]

Some awesome pictures, & overall a very neat thread.





Just wondering though... what inspired someone to drive tandem... I understand team, they both are pulling. But Tandem, i'm not so sure I can wrap my head around it.





Thanks guys!


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## Al B (Jan 12, 2009)

Here is my tandem from the AMHA World show last year.






I have found that a true tandem harness has quite a few differences but two sets of single harness can be used just to try it out. And, Vickie is correct. Harder than a pair but not a hard as a four in hand.


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## Boinky (Jan 12, 2009)

for me it as the challenge of something new. I've driven singles and pairs and i knew someone that did CDE with big horses tandem and had spoken to her and it just sounded like MY THING... so she made some suggestions on how to make my single hanress's into a jury rigged tandem and off we went. It also makes things more challenging when the two boys i drive don't particularly like each other..lol

one really BIG bonus to tandem is that if you want to show you can use a 2 wheeled cart which in my case is my show cart..i could easily show them at nationals without having to bring a big buggy or something which would have been totally out of the question driving across the country.

I guess i didn't relise a 4 up was difficult to drive.. every book i've ever read said that tandem was the most challenging and dangerous style of driving..guess i'll be trying a 4-up sometime! lol I would like to graduate to a Trandem sometime too but i need to get another horse that will go with the tandem i already have that is reliable enough.


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## Al B (Jan 12, 2009)

Just a couple of comments.

In a tandem you just have 1 horse that's loose up front. With a four up you have 2. Make sure that front guy knows what he's doing and what you want.

In ADS driving a tandem is considered a pair and as such requires a groom, even for a VSE. So, even though the 1 horse is still doing all the work, you have more weight. In my case adding more weigh to my already substantial load is unfair to the horse. I need to find me a VSG (Very Small Groom).


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## Boinky (Jan 12, 2009)

LOL Al B... i need to find a VSG too..LOL

I guess i figured with the two horses in front they help keep themselves from being able to swing and would balance each other out a bit where when you have one up front they swing so easily..lol couple times i had my front boy talking to my back boy nose to nose..LOL partially it was my initial lack of coordiantion with the reins and took me a bit to figure out how to use my long whip to tap the front horse to get him to think about his job instead of the other boy behind him..LOL


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 12, 2009)

BannerBrat said:


> [SIZE=12pt]Wow! [/SIZE]Just wondering though... what inspired someone to drive tandem... I understand team, they both are pulling. But Tandem, i'm not so sure I can wrap my head around it.


As I understand it, it was a way to get your riding horse to the hunt without exhausting him. He was unburdened and didn't have to pull so he arrived fresh and ready to go. Don't ask me though why they didn't simply tie him to the back of the cart...maybe to keep the dirt off him??







Al B said:


> I need to find me a VSG (Very Small Groom).





Boinky said:


> LOL Al B... i need to find a VSG too..LOL


And as I said on the tandem thread on CDE4VSE.com recently, "I hire out by the weekend for the cost of an airline ticket and some good donuts!"





Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 12, 2009)

Absolutely, the leader does not do any work, nor was he required to.

It was developed originally to get a horse out to the half way point of a day long hunt, and also of course take lunch out for the rider, and to bring home the "spent" horse without taxing him.

It allowed a non-riding member of staff to take out a horse, hence not riding and leading another, and also, were the rider to decide to come home, the trap would be there to bring them home without them needing to ride further.

So the lead horse is hardly in contact with the cart, and this is the correct way of going.

When I started I used an extra swingletree, attached at the breast collar of the wheel horse, as this was how it was explained to me by a BH driver.

We had the swingletree made up, especially!!

I found it was in danger of continually banging the wheelers knees, so I took it off and messed around with straps and things til I got it right (and yes, I did make the classic mistake of attaching the traces to the shafts but the attachment broke the one time we were in danger, before any harm could be done, and I adjusted accordingly!!!)

The team I used were matched in colour, and this always looks best in any pair, but not in height, which does not matter in tandem.

So long as the wheel horse is up to the work there is no reason apart from aesthetics, why the leadhorse cannot be taller than the wheel.


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## Al B (Jan 12, 2009)

And as I said on the tandem thread on CDE4VSE.com recently, "I hire out by the weekend for the cost of an airline ticket and some good donuts!"





Leia

Yes you did Leia and I am keeping that in mind.


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## MiniHGal (Jan 12, 2009)

Interesting, Al, I'd always heard that a four was easier than tandem....and my personal experience certainly holds that up. The four, the two up front gather confidence from each other, and it is more difficult for them to decide to swing around and look you in the eyes (one, the traces are really too short to allow a full turnaround, and two, they have to both decide that is the way to go, which is not always the case). Personally, while there is more horsepower in a four, I find that straightness, turning, and confidence for all horses is much easier/better.

Incidentally, Jane, I'd looked into doing it with a singletree for the leader, but the sizing issues made it very impractical. Plus, I believe that is usually used with a collar on the wheeler, and since it is darn hard to find a nice looking collar for minis...that was mostly out. Now, there is a very good driver here in CA that uses one with a breastcollar on marathon, as the setup is less likely to contribute to getting a leg over the leader's trace. He's modified it a bit so that the bar is not hitting his wheeler in the chest and legs (he drives medium ponies). I'd like to know what changes you made to avoid those problems with the minis. And pictures if you have any....





There's almost nothing better than trotting full speed out on a path with two horses in line in front of you.

Fortunately, Al, I believe I am a bit lighter than you...



So I was able to get away with having a groom and driving, in effect (for pulling), a single on the course.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 12, 2009)

Al B said:


> Yes you did Leia and I am keeping that in mind.


Just letting Boinky know too!





Leia


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## Al B (Jan 12, 2009)

I may agree with you Leia on the four being easier than the tandem. It may be a tossup. My leader in the tandem is my champion multi honor roll obstacle driving horse that is actually smarter than I am. He is so precise in his movement and response to my voice and bit movement that I may be spoiled. With him in the lead driving the tandem is just plain fun. We did the entire class at the AMHA World Show and I don't think the traces ever changed position and my wheeler is perfectly content to follow exactly in his rear. It was not so easy when I had them reversed.

My comment about the four is that there are more things to think about and more horses to be concerned with. Even though my two tandem horses are the leads, there is still quite a bit of work to do. Keeping the horses pulling evenly and not leaning apart are my biggest problem. The answer may be that I have driven the tandem more than I have driven the four, but they get better every time I drive them (may have something to do with my confidence level also). Right the four are more challenging to me than the tandem.

As far as you being lighter than me, there is no doubt.


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## Bess Kelly (Jan 12, 2009)

OK, I'd love to have 4 up......but, why aren't they all connected to pull?? Is it just simply the cart that you are using/choose to use? Obviously the center pole being long will create some requirements for movement, size of area for movement. Or do you need collars and/or more harness to connect all "that" to make all pull.

I know the Lone Ranger jumped off of Silver onto the back of the stagecoach, climbed over and then WALKED A POLE between the racing horses, to get to the reins! Yes, I remember this clearly!!!






You guys are ruining my assumed delight of 4 driving!





20 mule team was another favorite show!

So, is the "loose team" up front simply cart selection? (I've only driven a single--& seldom)


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 12, 2009)

The leaders in a 4-up are also attached to the pole and do pull except during certain situations (turns, etc., where you don't want the pole pulled over) but the single leader in a tandem does not. 4-ups were about adding more power, tandems about getting a spare horse from one place to another in the days before horse trailers.

And Al, I think you were talking to Bree that time!

Leia


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## BannerBrat (Jan 12, 2009)

[SIZE=12pt]Thanks for answering guys.



[/SIZE]

Sorry for twisting your thread Marsha!





Driving sure is an interesting hobby.


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## Boinky (Jan 13, 2009)

i would also think with the 4 you aren't likely to get the spin seperatly because don't they have reins that criss cross...like in a regular team to get the reins on the right and left hand of the driver? it would make it mighty hard for the leaders to "split" and go seperate ways. I'm still going to have to try a 4 though! lol

Leia,

I'll keep that in mind as well...lol


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## Amy (Jan 13, 2009)

We also drive tandem & our grandson Joe, who shows with us has been learning the hitch driving as well & he now drives tandem, unicorn & 4 horse hitch . Joe just turned 16 last summer so has been doing this for 2 years now. It is so nice to see a young person interested in learning this dying art of horsemanship.

I tried to post a picture of Joe driving unicorn & 4 horse hitch -- but don't think it worked. LOL

I usually have to get Joe to do the picture thing & he is not here much when school is in. ( I sure do miss him to do these things though)


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## nbark (Jan 13, 2009)

You might want to consult with Marc Johnson, an international course designer, judge and driving instructor in the New England area. He has driven many tandems in competitions and is currently getting a course designed in this area for minis at two and three phase events. His email is [email protected]. He is also interested in hearing from anyone interested in competitive driving for minis in the New England area. He can certainly give you the pros, cons and safety info you need.

Good luck.


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## joylee123 (Jan 13, 2009)

Al B said:


> Here is my tandem from the AMHA World show last year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[SIZE=12pt]Oh How elegant






[/SIZE]

Joy


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 16, 2009)

Very interesting thread with great photos !!!


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## Marsha Cassada (Jan 20, 2009)

My sister came today and helped me with my horses. They stood like angels while we invented and cobbled. My goodness, trying to figure out how to hold the reins was so hard! It will take lots of ground miles before I will feel comfortable with keeping the reins sorted out.

My sister walked with a lead rope on Dapper Dan at first. Then we seemed to be going well, so she took a few photos. After that, we went out on the road for about half a mile, and she walked beside us, ready with the cutters in case we had any disasters. They both went like lambs.






I had some trouble where the two reins were hooked together and wouldn't side through the terret smoothly, so for sure I need long reins. Also, Dapper Dan's reins kept getting over Hawk's (the wheel horse) ears so I need to attach them to his bridle. I am thinking a zip tie ring for the reins to run through might work.






We went around the cones, then out on the road. Several neighbor dogs came to visit us en route, and neighbor horses did some snorting and prancing, but my boys stuck to their business. I practiced weaving back and forth across the road and up and down a ditch, trying to get the feel of the reins.

Then back to the corral and a VERY NICE WHOA.






I am so proud of the way they worked! Now I need to figure out how to make my connections better. I will carry cutters in a fanny pack while we are learning, just in case, and a lead rope. The biggest challenge is my leaning how to use the reins. Wow, it was fun!


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## Boinky (Jan 20, 2009)

yes for me the definate challenge was in using the reins.. lol even growing up riding with double bridles didn't prepair me for having to REALLY use the reins separately and make it work for two separate horses! what i used was a pair of big horse driving reins that were quite long..they were also a lot wider than my mini driving reins (like the mini reins are like 1/2" wide and these were 1" or 1.5" wide. Of course i used them on the lead horse so i had two completely different feels in my hand for each horse.

You can buy rodger rings to go on the side of the bridle of your wheel horse for the lead horses reins to slide through.. not real expensive or what i found that really works well is a big horse pair of tear drop shaped side check rings. I found some with conway buckles that attach easily to the side of my bridle.


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## Marsha Cassada (Jan 20, 2009)

Boinky, I don't know what a rodger ring is. What is it used for? Would a jack strap snap work?






I have access to some big horse driving reins, so I think that will work. And I've figured out a workable way to attach the lead harness to the wheel. I will pick up some rings and snaps tomorrow.

The only tandem harness I saw was one from Smuckers, and it was $3000+. I think I will make-do with what I have for now.


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