# Newbie starting in CDE



## JMS Miniatures (Aug 30, 2010)

I found out that there are CDE events in OK and they offer VSE classes. I have always been interested in doing this and I may get to go next year. Any help and advice you can give me I will really appreciate it. I have done small trail rides, and obstacle driving and of course done driving in registry shows but nothing like this. I'm excited.


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## RhineStone (Aug 30, 2010)

That is a big question!




I would say the first thing to do is to peruse the American Driving Society rules. That will tell you all the things that you need to bring or have to do the sport, like breeching or mechanical brakes (which generally aren't on mini carts and for good reason, but that is another thread). Other things that are "different" include reflectors for your cart, helmet required for marathon, etc. Some CDEs allow pneumatic tires for Training level, but some don't, so getting a hold of this year's Prize List for the show will give you some good information, too.

Also, get a copy of the Training level dressage tests and start practicing elements of the tests. Since you may not know which test they will use next year, there is no sense in memorizing tests now, but you can practice your circles, corners, long walks, etc.

There are some very good "intro to CDE" websites out there that are very comprehensive for newcomers, even ones geared to those driving VSEs.

CDEs and carriage driving are addictive, so be careful!



You will have a great time before you know it!

Myrna (I would write more now, but I have to go do chores.)


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## BBH (Aug 30, 2010)

I am also just starting into CDE events and everyone is very helpful to explain things. You may want the look at the AMHA mag this month for a very good article on basic CDE stuff......I will try one for the first time this fall after conditioning.......alot to learn but seems like so much fun. alot of difference than breed ring showing.


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## Al B (Aug 31, 2010)

Yes, read the article on Combined Driving in this months issue of the Miniature Horse World magazine. It tells you everything you need to know. Then come to Stillwater in October. I plan to be there so look me up and say Howdy.


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## JMS Miniatures (Aug 31, 2010)

Al B said:


> Yes, read the article on Combined Driving in this months issue of the Miniature Horse World magazine. It tells you everything you need to know. Then come to Stillwater in October. I plan to be there so look me up and say Howdy.


I need to see if I can find that issue and buy it from somebody. I'm going to try and come down in Oct. just to watch, I'll try to look you up if I show.

I found the minihorsecde.com site and it was helpful. I also found the ADS site and was wondering can you get a rulebook without having to be a member?


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## Al B (Aug 31, 2010)

The magazine is on the AMHA website. you can print the article from there. Looking forward to meeting you.

You should be able to download the ADS rule book from their website also.


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## RhineStone (Aug 31, 2010)

JMS Miniatures said:


> I also found the ADS site and was wondering can you get a rulebook without having to be a member?


Eventually, when you start exhibiting at multiple ADS events, it will be cost effective for you to join the ADS. We pay for our membership countless times by just not having to pay the non-member fees at the shows.

And actually, their magazine that you receive with the membership is worth the cost, and you will get good information that you can apply towards your learning. You will also receive the annual Buyer's Guide, in which anybody who is anybody in carriage businesses advertises in there, so you will have all the suppliers in one place. You will also get the Omnibus, which is a list of every ADS recognized show in the US and Canada, along with entry forms. For $10, you can get a paper copy of the rulebook sent to you. I know that my driving skills increased considerably after I joined the ADS, because of what I was suddenly exposed to! I highly suggest that you join the ADS!





Myrna (who should get her 10-year membership pin this year!)


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## Minxiesmom (Aug 31, 2010)

Martha Duchnowski has the greatest website to explain mini horses used in CDE. It is minihorsecde.com . I learned so much reading that website.


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## susanne (Aug 31, 2010)

Sorry it's against the rules to post links to outside sites that have miniature horse forums attached.

Thank you.

You might also want to check the CD-L listserv and the Yahoo group, MiniHorseDriving.


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## RhineStone (Aug 31, 2010)

Right you are, Susanne. Agree with you totally.

Myrna


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## Peggy Porter (Sep 2, 2010)

Andy Marcoux from Coachman's Delight has a new excellent article on keeping track of time on marathon here: http://www.coachmansdelight.com/CGuidePage.asp?pg=GUI200&k=55

and LOTS of interesting guides here:

http://www.coachmansdelight.com/CGuidePage.asp?pg= &k=50

CDEs are a lot of FUN! Do a google search with "CDE" and "VSE" in the topic and you will find several great sites.


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## JMS Miniatures (Sep 4, 2010)

Minxiesmom said:


> Martha Duchnowski has the greatest website to explain mini horses used in CDE. It is minihorsecde.com . I learned so much reading that website.


I have found that along with the site [link not allowed] I also joined their facebook page. I found it pretty helpful. I'm hoping to do down in Oct. Planning on doing a couple next year. I'm sure I'll like it. It sure gives a break from the show ring.

On the harness is there anything different about it compared to like a show harness? Also with a cart is it acceptable to drive a wooden easy entry with wooden wheels? What type of harness would you recommend?

Not looking to go all out as this is just for fun but I certaintly want to follow the rules. Tried loading the rulebook but with so many pages my slow computer can't do it.

Thanks for all your help so far!


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## susanne (Sep 4, 2010)

An easy entry is certainly appropriate at Training Level. You're in great shape with the wooden wheels -- some venues allow pneumatic tires at Training Level, but that is entirely up to management.

You'll need breeching on your harness. A sidecheck is allowed at the training level, but no overchecks, and no check at all is preferred. You'll want a harness that is sturdier and better padded than most show harnesses, although a few, such as the Ozark MiniTack Carriage Harness, are suitable for both, at least while you're deciding if this is the sport for you. On the other hand, the Chimicum/Camptown/Comfy Fit Sport Harness is ideal and holds its value extremely well, so you really can't go wrong with that.


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## R Whiteman (Sep 5, 2010)

There are several folks that are very active in ADS events going to the AMHR show next week in Tulsa, OK. If you just happen to be there, feel free to stop by and chat.

Ron


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## LazyRanch (Sep 30, 2010)

Myrna mentioned some things you will need for the competition, but here are a couple other things you will need on the way there:

A slow moving vehicle triangle for the back of your cart when doing roadwork. You can buy one, but you can make one a heck of a lot cheaper - just an orange triangle. I did actually get stopped by a cop for not having one! (It's a small town)

A gear bag that will attach/detach quickly. I know some people use a fanny pack and buckle it through their basket on an EE cart. Just big enough to hold water bottle/sandwich/kleenex. I share my water bottle with PJ. I also tend to come in late from work, throw together a sandwich and toss it in my bag. Sometimes share that with PJ too.

Oh, and *don't* put your cell phone in the gear bag. If you take it with you, put it on your personage - preferably in a heavy duty case. If it's in the gear bag and, heaven forbid, you and cart part company . . .

A spare halter and lead in case you need it while on the road.

We have tons of goatheads, so some of us carry FastFlat.

Also, look at competition photos and see what the drivers are wearing! Plan your wardrobe carefully. You will need brown gloves! This was my first year driving, I had a heck of a time trying to figure out what to wear. PJ is leggy and not very flashy (my brother calls him "Homely Boy"), so I got a brow band that would give a little colour to his face. I drive a HyperBike, so my attire was going to be a little different - sure couldn't hide that it was a "bike" not a cart. Also, I wear a helmet from eventing days, so it has a cover. I finally went with grey slacks and a long sleeved green shirt and my green and grey cover. The shirts have changed during the season, but always long-sleeved, and in greens or blues and grey, with matching cover. Our last ADT, the dressage judge scored the Presentation very high for us. When someone asked why we'd got such a high score, and they got such a low score, the judge said because my horse was rather standardbred in shape, so the 'Bike was appropriate to his build, and my attire was appropriate for the 'Bike and well coordinated. The fact that I roll my sleeves up on the marathon portion had nothing to do with my dressage score, of course. But that score was one of those little things that helped us win our division this year. So see what is appropriate attire for your area, and especially for your horse and cart. Treat yourself to a new wardrobe! (sort of).

Gather cones or coffee cans - anything you can make a course out of and work up to 20 gates. Learn to memorize a course after a few walk throughs - not just driving through randomly.

ohhhhhh, you are in for so much fun!


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## RhineStone (Oct 1, 2010)

LazyRanch said:


> A slow moving vehicle triangle for the back of your cart when doing roadwork. You can buy one, but you can make one a heck of a lot cheaper - just an orange triangle. I did actually get stopped by a cop for not having one! (It's a small town)


If you are going to be on the road, especially one that has fast moving traffic (we live on a town road, but it is straight and not uncommon for drivers to be going 50+ mph), do consider an "official" SMV sign. A number of carriage supplies sell them in a fabric variety that will not marr the finish on a vehicle, or there are metal ones from farm stores. Some carriage suppliers are now selling smaller ones intended for mini vehicles, but I think for the road, this is a bad idea. You want to be as visible as possible. The small ones may be fine if you have to drive on a road for a competition and it is really closed, but you still have to satisfy the law (like for a Presentation Drive or a section of a CDE).

You also might want to consider a bicycle flag (train your horse to hearing its flap in the breeze), and a bright shirt like bicyclists wear. I had also heard that some farm stores carry bright T-shirts for construction workers. Anything you can do to make your little turnout visible on a busy road where YOU are the one who "isn't supposed to be there", the better.

Myrna


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## LazyRanch (Oct 3, 2010)

BBH said:


> I am also just starting into CDE events and everyone is very helpful to explain things. You may want the look at the AMHA mag this month for a very good article on basic CDE stuff......I will try one for the first time this fall after conditioning.......alot to learn but seems like so much fun. alot of difference than breed ring showing.



I too found the article very interesting. Particularly since neither AMAA nor AMHR recognizes combined driving for points. We have one of each, and I asked both if they were considering adding a division for Combined Drivin; both said no. But maybe AMHA is testing the waters?


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## Al B (Oct 3, 2010)

Can't speak for AMHR but AMHA is not considering it. The article was just to give folks interested in other uses for minis something of interest. ADS is developing a breed partnership program with the various breeds to promote cross exchange of items of interest AMHA felt that the September issue being the "performance" issue would be a good place to start.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 4, 2010)

LazyRanch said:


> I too found the article very interesting. *Particularly since neither AMHA nor AMHR recognizes combined driving for points*. We have one of each, and I asked both if they were considering adding a division for Combined Drivin; both said no. But maybe AMHA is testing the waters?


Actually, AMHR does. CDE's count towards the Amateur Advantage program just as do open shows, parades, therapy visits, etc.

CDE's in my opinion are way too complex to add as another division to AMHA/R but are a great place to show off our miniatures in the wider driving world. I'm excited about the new breed partnership program with ADS! There are currently special awards for highest-scoring Friesian, Morgan and Welsh at our local shows thanks to their breed associations; I'm hopeful that now there will be neck sashes for the highest scoring VSE as well.





Leia


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## LazyRanch (Oct 4, 2010)

JMS Miniatures said:


> I found the minihorsecde.com site and it was helpful. I also found the ADS site and was wondering can you get a rulebook without having to be a member?


You can download the rule book without being a member. I suggest downloading the version with two pages to a piece of paper, and make sure it's the portion with CDEs. There is another part that is everything BUT CDEs. Oh and the updated version, too.

It makes for some interesting reading and answers a lot of questions!


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## LazyRanch (Oct 4, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Actually, AMHR does. CDE's count towards the Amateur Advantage program just as do open shows, parades, therapy visits, etc.
> 
> CDE's in my opinion are way too complex to add as another division to AMHA/R but are a great place to show off our miniatures in the wider driving world. I'm excited about the new breed partnership program with ADS! There are currently special awards for highest-scoring Friesian, Morgan and Welsh at our local shows thanks to their breed associations; I'm hopeful that now there will be neck sashes for the highest scoring VSE as well.
> 
> Leia


I don't know on this Leia, Pinto has a Combined Driving year end - and painted VSEs are eligible for PtHA registration, and so can earn a ROM for Combined Driving. AMHR does have the Amateur Advantage program, but not Combined Driving, per se. Guess I will look into it a little more, because if AZ is any measure of a "competition poor" area, and we have at least 40 VSEs competing. WA, OR and the east coast must have thousands of VSE. I would think the time arriving when AMHA/R could rank Combined Driving right up with any of the other driving competitions for year end division.

IMHO


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 5, 2010)

LazyRanch said:


> Guess I will look into it a little more, because if AZ is any measure of a "competition poor" area, and we have at least 40 VSEs competing. WA, OR and the east coast must have thousands of VSE. I would think the time arriving when AMHA/R could rank Combined Driving right up with any of the other driving competitions for year end division.


Who on earth told you Arizona was a VSE-poor area? The Pacific NW has more sanctioned competitions, yes, but you guys have every bit as many VSE's waiting to compete in them. Washington, Oregon, California and Arizona are the hot spots across the country for our division- there are many other places where organizers are still reluctant to even allow VSE's to compete and there are other places where they encourage them but no one wants to enter.



For much of the East Coast this is the case and so combined driving and other ADS competitions are still very new to the AMHR. We don't really have year end programs either, just Hall of Fame (over the horse's lifetime in a specific division) and All-Star (for each year and in a specific class like Ladies Country Pleasure Driving Under). There's not a lot in place for horses competing outside of AMHR sanctioned shows. I think this new breed partnership is the first step for such recognition to come. And hey, the ADS now has year-end awards! I can't wait to compete for those in 2012.

Leia


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## LazyRanch (Oct 7, 2010)

Al B said:


> Can't speak for AMHR but AMHA is not considering it. The article was just to give folks interested in other uses for minis something of interest. ADS is developing a breed partnership program with the various breeds to promote cross exchange of items of interest AMHA felt that the September issue being the "performance" issue would be a good place to start.


That was the impression I got when I spoke with them. Guess I am kind of a snob about this - reverse snob, maybe? We do have one horse registered with each of the registries, but I don't pay very much attention to them because we don't drive pleasure classes. The one horse, from what I understand, was at Nationals, so I guess he has some talent there, but I don't think he's going to get there again - he's enjoying cones and hazards too much. And I am more of a blue jeans and baseball cap mentality. I love the turnouts, but I can't see me there.





I have seen that ADS is working to promote cross exchanges, though. In fact, I even forwarded their notice to the saddlebreds to a large saddlebred trainer in our area. She wrote back and said they were NOT interested because there was so much prejudice against them in the dressage arena! I was really surprised, as I had taken a Peavine SB to Intermediate 3-day, and his owner continued on to Advanced with him. I never saw a prejudicial comment. Again ridden, not driven so maybe not same criteria. One would think that a horse who moved well and did an accurate test would be equally scored ridden or driven?


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## RhineStone (Oct 12, 2010)

LazyRanch said:


> I have seen that ADS is working to promote cross exchanges, though. In fact, I even forwarded their notice to the saddlebreds to a large saddlebred trainer in our area. She wrote back and said they were NOT interested because there was so much prejudice against them in the dressage arena! I was really surprised, as I had taken a Peavine SB to Intermediate 3-day, and his owner continued on to Advanced with him. I never saw a prejudicial comment. Again ridden, not driven so maybe not same criteria. One would think that a horse who moved well and did an accurate test would be equally scored ridden or driven?


I know there are some very nice Saddlebreds in the CDE sport. Maybe they wouldn't be able to "cut it" in the World level where they are primarily using Warmbloods, but at the other levels, I don't see any prejudice either. That is the great thing about the driving sport, if your horse moves well, it doesn't matter what it is or what its bloodlines are!



This is true for CDEs or Pleasure shows!

Myrna


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## ~Lisa~ (Oct 20, 2010)

I do not know about the large shows but here we have a ADS club that puts on pleasure shows as well as CDE and ADT along with playdays and clinics I have been helping them with the shows for a couple years it is always fun and a great learning experience

They are very friendly and even the judges are wonderful. We have told them we have a green driving horse and we need him to go in the ring as if he were at a breed show- Check on and no breeching (we do not have breeching) the president of the club was wonderful she said she understood fully - discussed with the judge and it all ended up being no problem at all we went in the ring as we would have for the breed show with the exception of a apron (which was nothing more then a throw folded on her lap ) and did well and had a great time.

I found the ADS club a great place to learn and meet new friends


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## ~Lisa~ (Oct 20, 2010)

Double post


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## RhineStone (Oct 20, 2010)

Good deal! That is THE most wonderful thing about ADS and its members. They (or _we_, it is _our (the member's)_ organization) are the most gracious, helpful, friendly group of people in the horse world!



If that ever changes, we will have to find a different sport!





A side check is not against the rules for ADS pleasure shows. An overcheck is only allowed with certain historic vehicles. Breeching isn't even mandatory, but it is _unofficially_ recommended. We used to show ADS shows with a side check and no breeching, but thimbles. We were told by a nice fellow exhibitor at our first show that running martingales were not allowed, so we took that off. However, just like you experienced, rules can be "waived" with the approval of the TD and/or show management if they are logical requests.

So, I guess what I am saying is that I am _so glad_ that you had a good ADS experience, and I hope that other people will try it because it really isn't as far "out of reach" as some people think!





Myrna


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## wendyluvsminis (Oct 21, 2010)

LazyRanch said:


> Myrna mentioned some things you will need for the competition, but here are a couple other things you will need on the way there:
> 
> A slow moving vehicle triangle for the back of your cart when doing roadwork. You can buy one, but you can make one a heck of a lot cheaper - just an orange triangle. I did actually get stopped by a cop for not having one! (It's a small town)
> 
> ...




Hi there,

What do you mean by "work up to 20 gates". What's a gate? Yes, I truly know nothing about this, but am wondering what to work on with my mare when she comes home from basic training, to head her in this direction.


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## RhineStone (Oct 21, 2010)

A "gate" is a set of cones. At Combined Driving Events, the cones course is about 20 sets of cones. We work our horses on cones even when we are line driving, so that they get used to seeing them and understand that they are to go in between, not over, them. Working up to 20 gates means for your horse to have the stamina to drive around that much (a CDE is NOT a 5 min. breed show class!), and for you to remember where 20 gates are. (I almost got lost this year finding a "blind" gate.)

For a green horse, you might want to consider an ADS pleasure show first or an Arena Driving Trial, which is an abbreviated CDE. A full CDE with a green horse and a "new to CDEs" driver might be more than you really want to take on. I know I wouldn't have wanted to do that! (I had my husband do it instead!



) At a pleasure show, the cones courses are usually only ten or so gates. Your horse doesn't have to be in immaculate shape to take the stresses, and you can opt in or out of certain classes. Granted, you can opt in and out of phases of the CDE, too. I know of drivers that have done only Dressage and Cones, and skipped the Marathon with their green horse. It takes a bit of a commitment from drivers to get their horse in good enough shape to drive a marathon. I know that a few years ago, we did not drive our horses enough to have them in that kind of shape. It means 3-4 times a week at least, for at least an hour if not more of mostly trotting. Horses need to be worked UP to that.

I have a green mare that I am working right now to be ready for next year's CDEs. We are working on bending properly (not only for Dressage, but also for obstacles), accuracy in not running over cones (we start with $1 soccer cones before we make our way to the expensive ones. Ran over two last night. OVER, smushed, flattened...she is NOT ready yet!



), transitions, etc. She already has GREAT relaxation, much like your mare. Maybe a bit too relaxed. I need to get her a bit more responsive. She also doesn't have much stamina. I work her about a half an hour to maybe 45 min. My "finished" gelding works for an hour and a half at mostly a trot. (Yes, we work on the walk as well.)

However, I could take her in a pleasure show today. I'm not saying that pleasure shows are easier, just easier for green horses that you don't have a lot of expectations for. In order to place well, you usually have to have more than just a green horse.

The nice thing about green horses and CDEs is that you are the only one in the ring at a time, so you don't have to worry about running anyone else over!



The above mare went to an ADT for her first driving show, and that was great! She got exposed to the show environment without a lot of stress (ADTs are pretty laid back) and heavy driving. The dressage test is shortened (I got lost and they blew the whistle on me, but the mare did good!), the cones course was right after dressage, and the hazards were after lunch. There is no long, drawn out walk or trot section so her condition was OK for the requirements.

Another option to help everyone understand the CDE is the get a hold of the video Combined Driving 101 with Muffy Seaton. That would give you a visual on what the whole thing is about.

Myrna


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## wendyluvsminis (Oct 21, 2010)

Thank you so much! I will have to buy some cones pronto!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 23, 2010)

Great explanation Myrna! But come on, 20 cones takes being in great shape??



That is under four minutes at a decent trot for an A-sized mini!



Doing it with style and accuracy after a long marathon and a dressage test, yes, that takes stamina. But cones by themselves are not strenuous as far as endurance goes.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Oct 23, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Great explanation Myrna! But come on, 20 cones takes being in great shape??


No, no, I meant for a full marathon. The 20 gate cones courses are a part of a full CDE, whereas pleasure shows cones courses aren't as long, and ADT hazards aren't as long. It is easier for a green horse to complete an ADT or a pleasure show than a full CDE. That is what I meant.





Myrna


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