# Harness fitting/carriage balance



## Sarah Poole (Feb 5, 2019)

Hello all,

I'm new to this Forum 
I live in Spain and have a mini Shetland who I broke to drive last year because he was no good for the kiddies lessons.

We both absolutely love it. My farrier has minis who he drives so I bought my cart off him and he had it on a smaller mini.

There is something off about the balance but I'm not sure how to correct it.
I thought possibly bigger wheels would help as it tips back slightly so the shafts lift up in the tugs almost like it will tip backwards.

Also my harness saddle doesn't sit off his back with a gap it rests on his back. Is this an issue?
It's just a reasonably cheap starter harness as I wasn't sure he would take to it.


Once I can afford to I will upgrade but for now I want to make him as comfy as possible. 

I've added some pics although they aren't the best. I hope one of you lovely people can offer some advice 

Thank you


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 5, 2019)

Sorry here are the photos


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## Cayuse (Feb 5, 2019)

Hi Sarah, welcome!
What happens if you lower the shaft carriers/tugs down one hole? Does that help? 


Your mini is cute, what is his name?


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 5, 2019)

Hey.

Thank you for your reply. The tugs are on the lowest hole. They can't go any lower 

Would be bending the shafts help the issue?


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 5, 2019)

Bent something like this carriage pictured below?

Thank you. His name is Apache


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## diamond c (Feb 6, 2019)

I think larger wheels might do the trick


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Larger wheels was my initial thought but they are so very expensive and hard to get here. I may as well buy a new carriage...


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## MindySchroder (Feb 7, 2019)

Your mini is so cute and looks like he enjoys driving!

I suggest that you don't bend the shafts as that will cause a weak spot in the shaft where you bent them. If I were you I would go ahead and upgrade your harness now. Having more holes in your shaft loops will really help you balance your cart, as I think, if you lowered them one or two holes your problem would be solved!

It sounds like you have a gig style saddle, or a treeless saddle. They are usually fine for the type of work our minis do. Some people do prefer a treed saddle but that is based on person and horse. I highly recommend using a nice thick pad under either type of saddle.

There are places where you can buy parts of a harness and start replacing one piece at a time  Chimacum Tack here in the US sells harness parts for a reasonable price. And they ship world wide!


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Thank you for your reply 

He is a fantastic pony and he really loves it. These photos were taking after 4 months off and he just restarted perfectly.

If I bought a newer harness how could I guarantee the tugs would be lower as I never seem to see measurements for parts like that and also wouldn't they be too low on his body?

If I don't bend the shafts but put slightly larger wheels on. Will that help?

Appreciate everyone's replies thank you


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Ps. I do normally use a pad under the saddle but someone has moved it so I couldn't find it. I will look at that tack shop thank you


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## Peggy Porter (Feb 7, 2019)

It’s so hard to tell from a photo. But this is what I’m thinking. Can you shorten your traces a bit more? In the first photo (moving) the tugs are pulling backwards, they should fall straight down. In the second and third photos, the tugs are straight but the traces are loose. Just a little shorter may help. Also, I would put a pad on the breastcollar. It’s seems thin and after some driving may cause soreness. Your horse looks like he is enjoying himself, and you are right to try and make him more comfy. He is very cute!


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## MindySchroder (Feb 7, 2019)

You can ask for the measurement of the strap that the shaft loops buckle onto. And that strap can be made different lengths, when you order from Chimacum Tack. As for the loop being too low only you will know that. You will want very little weight at the ends of the shafts when they are lowered. I think with your seat so far back you won't have a problem with that, but test it out! Have someone hold the ends of the shafts where they attach now, to see how much weight there is in them, then lower the shafts to where they will be more level and make sure there isn't too much weight (as in more than 5 pounds) in those shaft ends. You will need to have someone close to your size sit in the cart so you can be as accurate as possible.

I'm afraid that putting on bigger wheels will make you sit far too high, you are already sitting as high as I would like. The wheel base is a bit narrow on your vehicle so adding more height to it will just put it off balance when you are cornering, making it easier to tip over. I hope that makes sense!


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Yes my traces are too long. I've made additional holes so I can make more and try it shorter.
Sadly the breast collar traces don't unbuckle or I'd buy shorter traces.

I was looking into buying a new breast collar and I did contemplate an actual collar for him too.
I'm in the process of buying/making pads to make him comfier so glad someone else suggested that 
(It's quite a narrow breastplate but looks super thin in these photos as he's so fluffy and its hidden a bit)


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Thank you Mindy 
I'm quite new to driving although I drove in England also but there is very limited equipment for mini driving in Spain.
Loads for bigger horses but even to get this carriage was hard.

I cannot afford to buy a whole new harness right this moment but as soon I can I will.
So you think my best bet is to buy a new saddle with longer tugs?
Does it matter how far down his side's the tugs come?

I shall get better specific photos for you all on Sunday which may show better

Thankyou!


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Would a neck collar be better for him or its not ideal for a mini.

I did some research on breastplate or neck collar but there seems to be mixed views.
My pony doesn't have much distance between his throat and chest so I find placement of the breastplate hard


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## Peggy Porter (Feb 7, 2019)

Sarah Poole said:


> I'm in the process of buying/making pads to make him comfier so glad someone else suggested that
> (It's quite a narrow breastplate but looks super thin in these photos as he's so fluffy and its hidden a bit)



I think we can all relate to the fluffy!


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## MindySchroder (Feb 7, 2019)

Here is another blog post about line of draft. That is what will dictate what style of collar he will need. 
https://theessentialhorse.com/2018/11/14/collars-line-of-draft-balance-of-draft/

A well fitted neck collar is great if you can get one there and you have a low line of draft. If your line of draft is more level, straight, then you will be better off sticking to a breast collar. I do love the Deep V style breast collars for the minis to help free up the shoulder and allow more clearance for their windpipe


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Ha ha he is superfluffy.
He was clipped last year because I was working him a lot more and it's quite hot even now for this amount of fluff

But who doesn't love a fluffy pony


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Yes I've just been looking at those v collars and they look fab.

Shipping to Spain is an issue and very expensive from America which is really fustrating because you have the best mini tack.

My carriage actually has the fixed hooks which I believe you should only hook the traces too if they are in a neck collar? 
Which is why I thought a neck collar would be easier around and a possible better fit.

But for now my hubby has made a swingletree for the carriage so he can be comfy in a breast plate

Thanks again for the articles


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## Peggy Porter (Feb 7, 2019)

Sarah Poole said:


> Would a neck collar be better for him or its not ideal for a mini.
> 
> I did some research on breastplate or neck collar but there seems to be mixed views.
> My pony doesn't have much distance between his throat and chest so I find placement of the breastplate hard



I would not get a full collar. The line of draft on your cart is pretty much straight back, even with the shafts, so a breastcollar is more suitable. And full collars are much harder to fit, in my experience. My boys both wear a deep V collar, which gives them more windpipe room and also more shoulder clearance. Im sure Mindy has one available at Chimacum. A little pricey, but soooo worth it, IMO.


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

That article was just what I needed to know.

He definitely needs a breastplate harness I think as his line of draft is quite straight when the traces are taut.
As you said the carriage is quite high.

Most informative thanks!


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Oh I 100% agree. So worth it for his comfort but sadly I'm not working at the moment so I can't afford it right now


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## Peggy Porter (Feb 7, 2019)

Sarah Poole said:


> Yes I've just been looking at those v collars and they look fab.
> 
> Shipping to Spain is an issue and very expensive from America which is really fustrating because you have the best mini tack.
> 
> ...



Yes, we are very lucky to have the options available to us in the US! Yes, a swingletree is very important. Your mini will be much more comfortable. And a comfy poneh is a happy poneh!


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Yes you've got great harnesses.

Indeed! It is the most important thing


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## Cayuse (Feb 7, 2019)

I wonder if you can get shaft carriers that are a bigger diameter so it would give you a little more length. Or have a reputable saddle/harness repair person put on longer straps for the shaft carriers to buckle to.


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Thank you. We don't have many saddlerys out here and none that really work properly with leather so I guess the best thing to do is to replace the saddle part of the harness with one with longer tugs?


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## Cayuse (Feb 7, 2019)

That would probably be your best bet. If you pick a well known harness maker, you can always order the rest later and it should all match nicely. It doesn't even have to match completely, my mini was shown with a peiced together harness as he is a difficult fit, and no one was the wiser. 
About the saddle part, I have been using a saddle without a tree in it. I used a larger wider pony sized pad with it to keep him comfy. My instructor talked me into getting a back saddle with a tree in it. I have only used it for ground driving as I just got it and the mini seemed comfy. It shifted less and I did not have to girth it as tight. I am interested to see how it will be when I can hitch him with it. Hopefully he will still be comfy. 
It seems like fitting a harness is both an artform and a science. So much tweeking!


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## Sarah Poole (Feb 7, 2019)

Yes you are quite right.

A science for sure! I feel like I might be tweaking forever


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## Patty's Pony Place (Mar 31, 2019)

Sarah Poole said:


> Sorry here are the photos


Patty of Patty's Pony Place here - designers and builders of miniature horse carts - and I make custom harness as well. The first issue you actually have here, is the design of the cart. It has a high centre of gravity, the distance from the top of the seat to the floor pan has you sitting "bunched up", with your knees high. There is also no way to adjust the shafts - looks like they are built as a solid system on the front of the cart. If you have access to a welder/fabricator, you can e-mail me at [email protected] - with some closer photos of the cart, and I will show them to Kelly (hubby, designer, builder of carts) and see if he can guide on what needs to be done to improve the cart. Regarding your harness - you may want to get a different breast plate - but in my experience, the Deep V breast plates are unnecessary, and the ones with the ring placed between the two up tugs for the neck strap, are indeed, poorly designed. They have the rings there for what became a fad of an "adjustable line of draft", promoted falsely by many in the industry. My consistent effort to dispel that myth has finally resulted in the main company promoting it to stop, but sadly, they have not yet re-designed the breast plates so the buckle is at the end of the breast plate - and the ring removed. Your cart is designed for breast plate harness, and again, a new one, but only with a slight curve - and the buckle near the end of the breast plate. Do e-mail me if you would like - and we will see if we can get you all lined up, and rigged right, and only what you need.


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## Sarah Poole (Mar 31, 2019)

Thank you so much for your helpful reply!
Yes I have summarised the same as you. That the cart should be much lower to the floor and the shafts possibly a bend in them to make up the extra height? 
I don't know the correct name for that so I hope you know what I mean...

I am thinking to simply get rid of this cart and try and find a more suitable 2 or 4 wheeler. My issue is simply here in Spain it is near on impossible to find a well built cart for a shetland. They all look like mine and to import one is very expensive.... So maybe modifying mine is the only way.

I will definitely get some up close photos and email them to you.
Thank you very much

As for the breastplate I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I had added a pad to the front of my breastplate now so it is at least more comfortable for him but I would still like a new one. It seems to me a fairly important pArt of the harness and mine looks poorly made. The rest of harness seem to work well


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