# any managers out there



## krissy3 (Jan 6, 2010)

Are there any managers out there that manage a young staff? I find most of the youth lazy, unmotivated, careless, and totally unprepared for life in general, lacking drive , acceptability and responsibility . Has anyone found a creative way to motivate their employees other than lots of prase for good work . How do you disapline bad behavior without having them rebel against you because they are unable to accept constructive critisim, like being late everyday for work ,or not cleaning up after themselves, or spending too much time outside smoking when there is work to be done? I always feel like I am a nagging mother by the end of the season when the staff goes back home. I run a hotel with my husband , and our staff consists of young people from Slovakia and Germany. Because of the ruel area , we are unable to hire a different type of employee, its too boring in a small resort village for city "professional " people without clubs and discos to go to. Anyone out there to bounce around new management ideas ?




I am at the end of my broomstick

Kristen


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## Katiean (Jan 6, 2010)

In my early 20's I managed my own part of my fathers cabinet business. We made redwood house numbers and letters. I gave up and only hired women because they would listen better. There was a certain way these numbers had to be made and the guys would say "yeah right" and then do it their own way and it cost us too much in waist. The girls , when they didn't listen I just told them It's your pay check or lack there of. We did pay by the piece and if they produced a flawed piece they didn't get paid for it.

LOL. I just figured up what the girls were making and it came out to about $3.75 per hour. which was a good wage at the time. I think minimum wage was $2.45 per hour. You have to remember it was 1977. boy does that ever date me.


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## sfmini (Jan 6, 2010)

We do something similar when we hire kids to work around the farm. They are paid by the task so it is up to them how much money they make. We have one kid who will take all day to get an hour's worth of weeding done, and her sister will do much more so she earns more.

Not sure about the labor laws where you live so not sure that this would work. I am guessing they are working for room and board as well as money? Maybe attached a value to that and start charging them for each infraction and deduct it from their pay. Unemployment works too.....



maybe some kind of bonus benefit for the hard workers?


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## Charley (Jan 6, 2010)

Are you telling them when they do something good? Search for things to complement them on. It also makes you feel good to see them smile and warm up to the job ... and you.

Most people are motivated by the feeling they get from others. If it is mostly negative, they will not see any reason for doing better and eventually leave. If they are complimented on things, even the smallest task, they will grow and do better in other areas. Also let them know that there is room for advancement for those that excel. They need to know that there good work is noticed and appreciated.


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## sfmini (Jan 6, 2010)

Charley, what you say is very true, but you do walk a fine line there. If you are praising everything, they know the game.

Here at work, they have a program called the GEM. Everybody gets a lovely colored piece of construction paper with a gem shape printed on it. Every time another employee (can be anybody) submits a compliment to someone, they get Gem'd and win (now hold your breath!!!



) A STICKER! wow.



When you fill up your piece of paper, you get another one, different color and gem shape. whoop.

Sorry, I grew out of stickers in kiddie garten.

Some people just love those things, but a bunch of us have set goals of never getting a sticker and threaten death to those who gem us. (just kidding, sort of).

So far, I am gem free. The person I am working for feels the same way, jokingly says she will gem me if I don't get something done on time.





What I am saying, is make the praise meaningful, don't praise someone for just doing the bare minimum, but those who step up and do a little extra.

Think about your attitude towards them, are you expecting them to screw up from the get go or are you expecting them to do their jobs? Are they very clear on your expectations? Sometimes people aren't clear, don't want to ask, just cruise along. If something is not moving along, ask if there is some problem they need help with.

Try to build them up as a team, some kind of social events for them to come together and warm up to each other.


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## Ellen (Jan 6, 2010)

Krissy,

I certainly know what you are going thru. I worked as an EFDA in dentistry and as the clinical manager for 20 yrs. Basically, I had to get really tough. On things like making sure patients were responded to quickly and their conversations were kept appropriate. We worked in an enviroment that was so fast paced, cigerrette breaks were not acceptable, after all, consider the type of work we were doing. Cell phone were not permitted to be on in the office, but emergency calls could be taken by office staff and handed off to the appropriate person.

If someone needed to be disciplined, it was done in private and written down and signed and both from both myself and them. The same was done if I thought they were doing extremely well.

Myself , and the Drs. provided either lunch or breakfast for the staff every friday. If someone did not do well they were not excluded, we figured it was a way for the team to get back on track.

Hope this helps.

Ellen


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## Jill (Jan 6, 2010)

If jobs are scarce there, you could fire a few. Forget being creative. I am all for positive reinforcement but if you've got lazy employees or ones you feel want you to walk on egg shells, just forget it and fire them. I bet that will be an attitude adjustment for the ones you keep. They need to do it your way, or go do it for someone else imo (and I am an employer).


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## Sonya (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm with Jill...having a job is not a right, it is a privledge...if you don't do the work, then "see ya".

I have found the 20 somethings of this day and age very lazy, unmotived, disrespectful, whiney, lazy...of course that is not all, but from what I've seen quite a few. In my job, we have 5 new hires now in thier early to mid 20's...they think the world owes them everything...they are terrible employees, and they suck at this job, they put forth very little effort...will not study things they have to know...but the federal govt keeps them because in the next 10 years, the air traffic control system is going to be so short handed from all the controllers eligible to retire and/or forced to retire due to thier age. You won't catch me on a plane in the next few years. These kids have been handed everything and have no work ethic what-so-ever...this is a high paying job that many would kill to have too, current starting wage 45k...it's a 2-3 year journey before being fully certified that comes with a 15-20k raise...you would think that would be motivation enough, but not for this group. Lazy, lazy, lazy. They constantly complain because other controllers who have been there for 10+ years are making 6 figures...they too could reach that when they put thier time/effort in...but they want everything now...spoiled rotten...and I've found the young women to be the worst.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jan 6, 2010)

Well to be honest a lazy or careless employee leads me to think it is the employee a whole staff of lazy and careless employees leads me to think the issue could be with management and not with the employees

It seems like you already have preconcieved ideas of the kids and how they will work or not work. I think that is the key to your problem

A good management team respects others and in return most employees want to work hard for them . Most people like to feel they are part of a team a important part of a team rather then being all you can get so you have to settle.


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## krissy3 (Jan 7, 2010)

Sonya said:


> I'm with Jill...having a job is not a right, it is a privledge...if you don't do the work, then "see ya".
> I have found the 20 somethings of this day and age very lazy, unmotived, disrespectful, whiney, lazy...of course that is not all, but from what I've seen quite a few. In my job, we have 5 new hires now in thier early to mid 20's...they think the world owes them everything...they are terrible employees, and they suck at this job, they put forth very little effort...will not study things they have to know...but the federal govt keeps them because in the next 10 years, the air traffic control system is going to be so short handed from all the controllers eligible to retire and/or forced to retire due to thier age. You won't catch me on a plane in the next few years. These kids have been handed everything and have no work ethic what-so-ever...this is a high paying job that many would kill to have too, current starting wage 45k...it's a 2-3 year journey before being fully certified that comes with a 15-20k raise...you would think that would be motivation enough, but not for this group. Lazy, lazy, lazy. They constantly complain because other controllers who have been there for 10+ years are making 6 figures...they too could reach that when they put thier time/effort in...but they want everything now...spoiled rotten...and I've found the young women to be the worst.


Yes , I believe you know where I am comming from.Our staff is very young , and they live a pretty carefree life at home where mommy does everything for them. Our laws really protect the employees . Some of the tings I am talking about is forgetting to clock in on their timecard, not reading the daily work plan..I make lists everyday of what is expected of them on their shift, and provide a box for them to cross off what they have done. The list never changes, so by now they should have it memorized. 2 Weeks before they arrive I send them a 30 page handout on the job expectations , how to set and clear tables, how to serve, our wine and dinner menu, how to meet and greet guests , how to write the tickets for the kitchen etc. Everything they need to know to do their job is all in the handout ...do they read it ???? NO , they would rather ask me a million times a day where the white wine is kept, and where the napkins are , and what is on the menu for the evening meal instead of figuring it out themselves. This is clearly not a problem with management....its a problem with a lazy generation of people. We cant fire them because they are in a contract for the season. Contract can not be broken unless its something serious like stealing.


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## krissy3 (Jan 7, 2010)

~Lisa~ said:


> Well to be honest a lazy or careless employee leads me to think it is the employee a whole staff of lazy and careless employees leads me to think the issue could be with management and not with the employees
> It seems like you already have preconcieved ideas of the kids and how they will work or not work. I think that is the key to your problem
> 
> A good management team respects others and in return most employees want to work hard for them . Most people like to feel they are part of a team a important part of a team rather then being all you can get so you have to settle.


LISA, I would like for you to stop responding to my posts with personal jabs. I understand that you dont like me , and thats fine . The mature thing to do at this point is to stop replying to my post with a personal jab. If i need your oppinion at any time I will ask you. There is nothing that I want to learn from you , we are 2 totally different people comming from 2 different belief systems, so lets leave it at that, respect eachothers differences , and stay away from eachother. I have owned my business with employees for a long time , i have taken courses on management , I know about teamwork, and prase. We have a new generation of youth , the parents at home are not teaching their children to take responsibility for their actions or for themselves...this starts at home at about the age of 2. I think teachers would agree , there is a big problem with the lack of supervision and disapline at home . This makes teachers and employers jobs a lot more difficult later on. The foundation of "right and wrong" ,"doing a job right or dont do it at all", " respect yourself and treat others as you would want to be treated yourself" starts at home ....not 18 years later by an employer or teacher , or policeman.


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## mydaddysjag (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm sorry, but I'm going to lean on Lisa's side. "This is clearly not a problem with management....its a problem with a lazy generation of people." I'm not one of your employees, and I personally take quite a bit of offense to your statements like this. With an attitude like this, there is no way I would bust my butt for you. If your employees get one hint of what you come off with here (Basically that all young people are lazy slobs because their parents raised them wrong) then no, they are not going to want to work hard for you. Also, Im not sure what your wages are for your employees, or if there are any benefits, but if it is a minimum wage seasonal type of job, they aren't going to read a 30 page booklet on their own time (when they aren't being paid, they are not going to spend their time on work related stuff). It's not high school, minimum wage jobs dont send out homework. I can see where it would be more reasonable to set up an orientation day at the beginning of the season, and have your employees come in, maybe watch a video on hospitality, read over the packet, and go over the dress code etc. It's not unrealistic for an employee to forget to clock in or out on occasion. If it is an everyday occurrence then I would let them know that they will ONLY be paid for the hours they are on the schedule, and not any extra time they may have stayed over. Not sure about your establishment, but my closing crew often stays atleast 1 hour past their time scheduled to get the restaurant closed. I manage a restaurant, and most of my staff are between 16 and 19 years old. I am one of the older employees there, and I am 21 years old. Probably the same age as the employees you have. When you start you go through a 1 day paid orientation, which goes over the companys educational videos, handouts, the rules, dress code, etc. Your next 2 days are in training, shadowing a more experienced employee. After these 3 days you are expected to basically know how to perform your job tasks. It still takes up to 1 month for it to become second nature, but after a week you can do it, just not as fast as you will later be able to.

For serious offenses, we have a write up system since we can't always fire for "little things". For example, blatantly not doing something after you are told, if your cash register comes up over or under by $2 or more, being more than 5 minutes late on 3 occasions etc. In a 30 day period, you can receive 1 verbal warning, the next step is a formal write up that is signed by the employee. The third step is getting your hours cut. A lot of my employees are part time, without guaranteed hours. By cutting their hours their pockets are hurt from not working, and they rarely do it again. I have two girls right now who I have had working one 6 hour day per week. They like to "rough house" around at work, and do things I consider serious safety risks. It looks like next schedule they will be working a regular schedule, because they became all star employees over night. Again, thinking that the problem could not possibly be with the management is the worst way to think, because your employees will resent you, and quite honestly, Ive never had a job where there was no room for improvement on the managers part. Good luck.


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## krissy3 (Jan 7, 2010)

Our staff gets paid 22.CHF per hour. Their job includes serving the guests that come in through the door wanting a cup of coffee, or a meal. They are expected to keep the coffee bar clean, restock the refreshments and wine , and in spare time when there are no guests clean windows, vaccuum, get tables ready for the evening guests etc. In Slovakia the pay is less then 1/2 of this . They work 8 hours a day here, with 2 days off a week. I treat them with respect, and they are allowed to call me by my first name, this is a big deal here. What hurts our business is when they forget to charge a guest for a 60 CHF bottle of wine , or they are busy talking with other employees and our guests walk out because they are not being served.We are not talking about 2 dollers here or there...we are talking about forgotten bottles of wine from 60 CHF to 120.CHF. I am not worried about 2 min late , how about 10 to 15 everyday, and 40 min late yesterday? How about forgetting to come in the morning to serve breakfast , and we get a call from the hotel guests waiting in the lobby for breakfast? I am realistic....It costs a lot of money to run a hotel, money lost from bad or lazy service people will hurt business. An employee left a window open all night in -25 C weather, the heater froze and pipes expanded, and burst open, we had about 90 gallons of water in the room , and down the hall. that was a 5,000 CHF "mistake" . We tell our staff in extream cold its important not to leave windows open. We tell our staff how to communicate with our guests so they dont feel unwanted, we say please and thank you for everything we ask for. I dont tell them I think they are lazy, that is not respectful, I can think they are lazy ,and ask for help from others in management for advise, on motivating lazy staff. That is not disrespectful. I thank my staff and say good night to them everyday, and ask them every morning how they slept.When they need something, an asprine, use of my laptop so they can call their parents , a break to smoke , I say , shure go ahead , just tell me where you are so I can look after your customer.I am honest about how I feel....this does not make me a hidious person. If you dont think we have a problem with our youth their decisionmaking and accountability , read the local newspaper . What do you think of the teenager that went to her Homecomming in Richmond CA ,and was called over by a classmate to join a small drinking party on campus...She was raped , beaten and robbed, for 2 hours with more then 20 on lookers before one girl had the courage to call the police. She was airlifted to a nearby hospital. If you think this is an isolated case you are mistaken. I dont think all teens are lazy(never called them slobs or stupid you did my readers) but I do think there is a problem somewhere with responsibility, and accountability. Our employee drinks all night long in his room..till 4 am , keeps the housekeeper up. He comes in with red eyes , and late everyday. I cant tell him not to drink like a fish every night, thats his decision. I do think he lacks responsibility...wouldnt you? Sorry but you are 21, you have a lot to learn.If you are already in management , then you are obviously a hard worker and responsibile. But there is still a lot more to learn, its a little different when its your money at stake.


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## minih (Jan 7, 2010)

You could try a monthly evaluation process about where they are graded on certain areas of their job and compared to each other. Put up a picture of "employee of the month" in their break room with a small gift awarded. Anything from a free meal to 20 dollars. Sometimes competition will weed out a few.

And like Jill said, a good firing usually makes for good employees. Surely there are those that need jobs around, you need to find them instead of spoiled children. You can not undo at work what it took mom's and dad's years of spoiling to do.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jan 7, 2010)

Krissy if someone answers with something on a public forum that you do not agree with or doesnt say you are wonderful it is not a personal jab it is a differing opinion. From personal life, marriage and care of horses everyone on this forum has different opinions. Attacking others after they take time to answer a post that you might have started but that others speak on as well and assuming it is all about you just simply does not make sense. This is why many go to a forum. To hear different sides and if not learn something at least learn what others might be thinking. I am sorry you are feeling this is personal but the only one making a personal attack here on this forum is you.

I simply responded to a question and I stand behind it. Frankly if you do not want answers that differ from yours perhaps you should state that in every post and then you will not find yourself getting so angry and upset when others post on your topics.

you know there is a great feature on this forum.. it is called the ignore button I have chose to use it before perhaps it is something you should look at.


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## Jill (Jan 7, 2010)

~Lisa~ said:


> Krissy if someone answers with something on a public forum that you do not agree with or doesnt say you are wonderful it is not a personal jab it is a differing opinion. From personal life, marriage and care of horses everyone on this forum has different opinions. Attacking others after they take time to answer a post that you might have started but that others speak on as well and assuming it is all about you just simply does not make sense. This is why many go to a forum. To hear different sides and if not learn something at least learn what others might be thinking. I am sorry you are feeling this is personal but the only one making a personal attack here on this forum is you.
> I simply responded to a question and I stand behind it. Frankly if you do not want answers that differ from yours perhaps you should state that in every post and then you will not find yourself getting so angry and upset when others post on your topics.
> 
> you know there is a great feature on this forum.. it is called the ignore button I have chose to use it before perhaps it is something you should look at.


Lisa, I very much agree!


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## minimomNC (Jan 7, 2010)

I am in charge of running a district, 4 states to be exact with over 50 employees. When I took over the job, the DM was going to be fired because she wasn't keeping the district up to the standards the company expects. She was lax on alot of people. I don't work that way. I can be friends with almost anyone but when it comes to my job being at jeopardy because someone else isn't doing theirs, that isn't going to happen. I tow a hard line. The people that work in this area are hard workers and they do their job quite well. They also know that if they don't, I can find more people that would love to have their job. It is just that simple. We now have the top district in the company. If your employees are not doing the job they are suppose to, either they aren't being made to or they don't know exactly what the job is they are suppose to be doing. I usually find that when people don't do a job right, its because the training was not as extensive as maybe it should have been. Maybe you should consider more training for your employees.

As for blaming their performance on their age, that don't fly either. I know many young people that are hard workers and do the job that is expected of them.

And I do agree with Lisa, this is a public forum, nothing on here is personal, its someones opinion of a situation that someone has asked for opinions on. If you don't like the answers you get, just move on to the next answer, if you only like the answers that agree with you, then why ask the questions in the first place. Normally someone askes for opinions because they want to know from different sides how they see a situation and they want to learn from it.


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## Ellen (Jan 7, 2010)

Krissy,

Some people are a lost cause. I had begged and begged a lot of young DA's to straighten up, but in the end the negative right ups, way over did the good. And they had to go. Tolerance of chronic lateness, excessive days off, ect.... Not tolerated. Simply can not be. People are waiting for them.

I would help and help, as long as they were willing, everyone called be my first name, sometimes taking one or two out to lunch for a job well done, or celebrating each and everyones birthday is a good way of building a team. But some you just can't reach. I can give you every book and disk I have on management and some are just lazy.

And it does take years to perfect your management skills. I had to learn to take the personal out of it. And that took a long time.


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## LittleRibbie (Jan 7, 2010)

Krissy,Krissy,Krissy, giving someone that you hired a 30 page " hand out " that they are expected to read,know and learn before even starting work or walking in the front door, IMO is crazy and VERY lazy on management part. Do you sit down w/these people on orientation day and go page by page, walk through your hotel, kitchen and dining room... Take questions and show them physically how you would like tables set and do mock introductions with guests...sort of roll playing. Why, Why, Why, would you expect a lazy person to close a window ( maybe they didnt feel it was cold enough did you tell them " close the window at 8:00 PM no matter how cold it is " )....I bet, that on the 30 page hand out, there was not one mention of ever closing a window.

Do you test them after a week on the hand out...maybe find that 1 person might be better situated in the dining room and another might excel in housekeeping and there might be someone that failed miserably in all the above but heck, she really does try, is about that happiest,smiliest person and could work out great as a hostess or greeter. She may be a great wine sales person and if she got a % of the wine sales I bet you she would NOT FORGET to put it on the clients check!!

As far as someone drinking in their room...hey, NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED IN ROOMS BY ANY EMPLOYEE...your hotel, your rules ....sign sign every where a sign!!

Why would you give an employee key to wine room w/o that wine being accounted for prior to closing the wine room door. Its that simple....if you dont trust your employee to remember to put all items on a guests check. I say get your butt down there and do it yourself. You and only you/husband can allow a guest to run a tab...if you are not there its cash and carry!!

I could really go on as far as lack of policies you seem have established. Maybe you do have some lazy people but there are lots of things I think you can implement to get a fire started under them.

This contract prior to hiring also needs to be looked at.....maybe management needs to review that prior to next season.

Krissy, we are in the food service/catering industry and am fully aware how much it costs to run this type of business but it also COSTS ALOT OF $$$ to Train an Employee....often spending $$ on other peoples mistakes...yes it smacks.....but its the cost of doing business. We are also a seasonal business and its hard to spend lots of time and $$ training a person that will only be w/us for 8 mos.....we just cross our fingers that the good ones want to join us again for another season...and the bad ones just sort of weed them selves out. Lucky for us we have had lots and lots of really great teen agers that really step up to the plate and do an awesome job....we are really lucky too that when they leave for the season they are begging us to keep thier jobs open for them to come back next yr. Good luck

heidi


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## Minimor (Jan 7, 2010)

> and ask them every morning how they slept


Sorry, I have to say that would not make me thrilled, if my employer asked me that question every morning. That would just get to be annoying, to be asked that same thing every morning when I got to work!! 
I'd also like to say that it's absolutely nothing to do with age. I could point out a 50+ year old or two that are lazy and not motivated. There are 40-something people I know that are more interested in going to work and talking with co-workers and on the phone than they are in going to work and doing actual work. I always say that if some people actually worked as hard as they talk about working they would get a lot more done. And if people are going to sit and talk non-stop while they work, they generally are not focusing on their work & it will not be accurage...I've heard people say that young people don't want to work, and that may be true in some cases, but then when some of them are working with older people who are also not working much, they sort of follow the example set by those older people--so definitely not just the young people that are a problem!

How to motivate them--through personal observation I have to say that if they cannot be motivated by sitting them down and having a talk with them--a polite but firm form of "shape up and apply yourself or I'm going to have to let you go"--then there really isn't any way to do it. You can try firing them & hiring some others, but you may find you just have more of the same.

I know someone who runs a shop--it involves food preparation & is a very busy seasonal shop. They have mentioned having a terrible time getting good staff. They tried keeping a tally of all the items wasted by the employees--treats that are made incorrectly and cannot be served, or treats that are ruined by sloppiness--tipping them & dropping them on the floor, that sort of thing--then they would show each employee's total to that employee so that he/she could see how much $$ had been wasted by their carelessness. The employee with the lowest amount at the end of a week was given a reward (a gift certificate, or a cash bonus). That helped for a little while, but after a few weeks of that the employees lost interest, and their response to the entire thing was more or less "ya, whatever". Owners had to pretty much do what they had been doing all along--making sure that one of them was always on duty with the hired staff--that was the only way they could ensure that things were done right & that service didn't suffer and lose their customers.

So, with everything I have seen and experienced, I have to say that is my answer to your original question is "do it yourself". Unless you luck into some great employees, doing it yourself is the only way you can make sure everything is getting done, on time and to the standard that you expect.


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## Sonya (Jan 7, 2010)

I see nothing wrong with asking an employee to read a 30 page manual even if it is on thier free time and they are making minimum wage...it is an expectation of the job..if they don't want to take an hour or two to read 30 pages then they don't want the job...I do think they should have hands on training as well. though...I am definately not saying all of the younger generation is lazy and expects the world to owe them something..there are plenty of middle age lazy people too...but in my experience all of the 5 we have at my work are just that..and there are 20 other people who feel the same way..I am constantly hearing from everyone that they think it's the generation gap and I tend to agree for the most part. That certainly doesn't mean everyone...but I'm sticking by that the majority do think the world owes them something...point is..she is the boss and if employees aren't up to her standard..even if some feel she is being to hard..it's her perogative to fire them...be clear on what you expect and follow through...and of course praise when someone does a good job. If your employees know what you expect and they continue to do the contrary they obviously don't want the job..and I'm sure that there are many out there to take thier place...everyone is replaceable in this day and age.


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## krissy3 (Jan 8, 2010)

Maybe you need more info from me ...we hire students from a school of Hospitality. Its their job to learn from us. I am their teacher. the first day they are here they get an hour or two to unpack, then they clock in and we read the book together. We do mock service, I even ask my friends to come in and pretend to be a guest. We try to help them learn posture , confidence , eye contact, smile, etc. we go over how to fill a wine glass, which glass is for water , white wine , and red. We tell them (or help them learn) that white wine is suppose to be served cold...so bring a wine bucket with ice. I teach them how to serve in a 3* restraunt , and we pay them 22.00 chf an hour....If someone gave me a handout with all the answers to doing my job correctly I would be thrilled. I dont ask that they read this at home or on their time , I ask that when they are sitting on their duff waiting for customers that they pull out the handbook and read it. I have a meeting with the "chef " of their school... the principal, in a week or so.... We are a paying school for them , an apprenticeship that works with the school. The problem is according to the principal " the kids are unprepared for work and too young" its the same thing every season. I have 5 days to get them ready for serving 50 guests . We go from 6 guests to 50 or more in just a few days. Believe me I spend all day training the girls , I work an adverage of 16 hours a day , going over the same thing day after day. Its been less then a month and they are 80% better , but they are not good enough to handle the seminars next month ...4 weeks of a full house, thats 80 people for breakfast lunch and dinner. I am lucky the big seminar is an international group, meaning we can speak English , but the girls cant speak English , so i will be taking 99% of the orders. I take photos of how tables should be set, how the buffet should look , I ask the girls during training to write things down... I find it hard to believe that you would have to tell the staff to take notes on this stuff. It would be like going to school without a pen and paper.. We are the apprenticeship program , the school is in another town, they are suppose to be sent here after they have learned the difference between a water glass and a wine glass. Are you getting the picture yet?


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## Jill (Jan 8, 2010)

krissy3 said:


> Maybe you need more info from me ...


That's just the thing... Really, we "need" less info from you. You lay out personal information and problems and ask for suggestions in a public setting. Then you get bent out of shape with long time, good and sincere members and snap at them when they tell you what they think. Don't give EVERYONE this information if you are not going to politely and reasonably accept the valid insights offered from EVERYONE. If you're not open to all politely stated input, then you need to discuss things with your chosen few privately and not in a public setting where potentially thousands will read what you said and many may comment. Your remarks to Lisa yesterday... There's just no reason for someone who's put it all out there to then respond in that fashion and especially not to someone who is a long time part of this "family" with good intentions.


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## sfmini (Jan 8, 2010)

It would seem to me that it is the school that isn't doing its job in preparing those kids for work, so maybe you need to meet with them and discuss the problems you are having with them. If they aren't willing to work with you, would you have other alternatives next season?

Are you part of the grading process? I would hope so.


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## LittleRibbie (Jan 8, 2010)

Krissy, AFTER reading your LAST post things became a little clearer and I do believe you have a better training program in place than I had thought. It sounds like you are trying to set them up for success.

We have worked in the past w/a very big culinary school in N.Y. We ( for 3 yrs. ) had 2 culinary future grads come work for us through the schools apprentership program. The 1st yr. was new to us and 2 freshmen arrived....they too were young and I dont believe their hearts were really into it...they just wanted to have some cash, free rent and live in Florida and go to the beach, girls blah, blah, blah. But they still got graded and they were required to fill out a form weekly and explain new techniques they learned, positive and negative things they saw in our business AND things they would do different if it was Their business, they were brought to my husbands office weekly, they both discussed it. Then we were also required to send a letter to the students proffessor with both positive and negative things we saw w/the particular student. We shared that letter with the students as well prior to sending it. With the student AND us reading everything before sending it to the school it really seemed to help both of us understand areas we need help with and also things that the student needs to pay attention to.

example....1 student complained that he felt uncomfortable some mornings when he came in because it was very obvious I had just been in an arguement w/my husband and it made the working inviroment very uncomfortable. He mentioned that I tended to take some of my problems out on the staff...ouch. HE WAS VERY SPOT ON AND I REALLY NEEDED THAT WAKE UP CALL. I WAS MAKING THE WORK ENVIROMENT A $%^$% PLACE TO BE so no wonder some things were done that we didnt approve of. Do you think that may be the case w/you and perhaps your hubby?

The next 2 yrs. we actually asked for only Junior or Senior students and their heads were really more into the tasks at hand and it worked out great for us.

I would have to say that unless you can sit down w/the dean of the school and talk to him about changes in the apprentership program guidlines they have in place, perhaps maybe you should not be involved in it. If it is worked out correctly both you AND the school AND the student should benefit. Im not sure what the pay system you descibed is all about but we were not paying the students alot and for the most part they really taught us some things. But you must be willing to accept critisizm as well.

Bottom line.....why does your business go into this program if its not working. Put a big HELP WANTED sign on the door, pay someone that wants to be there a decent wage, treat them w/respect, teach, train do what ever it takes....16 hrs. is a day is a long day...sometimes 20 hrs. is long but its your business and you have got to do what ever it takes. We choose the business we are in no one has a gun. AND my boss isnt giving me little " GEM " stickers if I do good. You said you go from really slow to really busy in a matter of a few days....well we do to here in Fla. Sorry but you've just got to suck it up and work then really sit back and enjoy the slow months. If I average the hrs. I work for the entire yr. it really isnt too bad. I love the fact that I have almost 5 months off ( never really off but w/not much going on )...thats just me. Give me a few 16/20 hr. days anytime!!

Hope it works out

YOU CANT TREAT EVERYONE THE SAME AND YOU CANT TREAT EVERYONE EQUALLY BUT YOU MUST TREAT EVERYONE FAIRLY!!

Heidi


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## LittleRibbie (Jan 8, 2010)

Krissy, I just showed this post to my husband. He asked how many other establishments are taking part in the schools program. We had a list of all the other places in the country that hire these CIA students ( they were from Ca. to Alaska ) Is there a way to contact them for feedback on how things are working for them...perhaps you are the only one having the problem of motivating people ( then you need to change ) or maybe this is happening w/other inns, hotels or whatever. Maybe the other places involved ( managers and owners ) can all have a round table get together and work w/the dean to see what is working and what isnt.


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## mydaddysjag (Jan 8, 2010)

Krissy, although I am offended at your remarks to me, I'll try to give you some helpful advice, since you obviously need it, and constructive criticism

doesn't seem to help you out.

Is either you, your husband, or another manager always present at the establishment? If so, you need to have your wine cellar locked. When an employee

needs something from the wine cellar, they can come to you to request that you get the wine for you. I know I don't allow my employees free access to

my safe, and allowing them free access to your wine celler is none the different. You have a lot of expensive inventory there, and if you don'

want it to come up unaccounted for, they don't get access. If they have to ask you for the wine, trust me, they are not going to forget to bill

the customer for it. Sure, it might be a pain in your rear, but Id rather have a few minutes of inconvenience than missing inventory, which equals money

out of my pocket. In my restaurant we do have specific jobs for each employee. I have a boy who is GREAT at customer service, and taking orders, but

he is terrible at cleaning, and preparing food. He is only ever scheduled as a hostess. I have kids who are great at cleaning, and behind the scenes work,

and not terrific at customer service. They are my cleaning and stocking crew. Do they have access to the cash register? If so, at the beginning of their

shift, you count their money yourself, then have them count the money. You have them sign the amount of money that was in their register at the start of

their shift. They are then the only person other than management allowed to touch that register. At the end of their shift they count their money first,

then you count it in front of them to make sure it is correct. If they are $2 off they are written up. If they are written up twice they are fired.

It's plain and simple. You are accountable for the money in your register. If they see one person fired for a measly $2, I bet you dont come up with

large sums missing. As far as being late, we use the hours policy. If you are repeatedly late (or repeatedly lack in your job) you have your hours cut.

When you lose a days wages I bet you think about it again. They are college kids, they are always hurting for money.

If you forget to show up for a day of work, you are fired. We call it a no call no show, which is grounds for termination. Occasionally if you have a great

excuse we let this slip (for example, I had a girl who spent the entire night in the emergency room sick, and when she was discharged she forgot to call off.

She did have an excuse from the ER from the night before, so we did let this slip.

At the end of the night, I do a walk through of my restaurant before my employees are permitted to leave. If anything is not done to standards,

they are required to do it again. If you do an end of the night walk through I'm sure you would catch any open windows etc. When I leave my restaurant it is

not my employees responsibility to make sure the doors are locked and windows shut. They always are but I still have to check to be sure. If we get robbed

at night because someone left a window open, its not my employees butt on the chopping block, its mine.

As far as not thinking we have some huge problem with our youth, quite honestly, call me naive but I don't think the issues is with the youth.

Maybe its because I grew up in a rural area, about an 30 minutes out of the city, and most of the kids in my area were raised by farmers, coal miners,

and mill workers and their PARENTS (probably of your generation) instilled some kind of values in them. You cannot blame youth for how they were raised.

I read the paper and watch the news. Read all of the paper not just the headlines. In my area recently there was an older gentleman who raped his

three year old granddaughter while he was baby sitting for his daughter. One of my neighbors is a 65 year old man who is a registered sex offender.

These were recent events, not in his past. My next door neighbor is a 45 old man who recently got drunk and chased his girlfriend down our street with

a wrench saying he was going to smash her skull in. So, Please, don't feel yourself, the issue is not with the youth, the issue is that the older generation

dont want to open their eyes and see that the problem is the world we live in, not the youth. I guess its much easier to blame everything on the youth?

If you have a problem with am employee drinking all night, you make your employees sign a contract that they will not drink on the premises, and that they

are not to come to work hung over or drunk. If they do, they are fired.

As far as me being 21 and having a lot to learn. I take that as a personal jab and insult. I did not say one thing regarding your age and it affecting you

knowing how to properly perform the functions of your position at work. I personally don't think that knowledge comes from age, I think it comes from

life experience. Some people are brought up in situations who lend a lot of life experience, and mature faster than others.

In closing, if you think you already have all the answers and just want people to tell you your doing everything right, why bother asking?

If someone does not tell you a way to change your current practices for the better, your situation will never improve.


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## Minimor (Jan 8, 2010)

After reading that last post of yours krissy, I have to say that if you speak to your staff members the way you spoke to us in that post, then it is no wonder you are having problems getting them to work for you! You come across in that post as if you think everyone that has posted here is rather stupid--that you consider yourself superior to all of us, and this line



> Are you getting the picture yet?


 sounded especially rude and condescending. Perhaps you didn't mean any of it the way it sounded, and I have no idea if you talk to your staff the same way that you write to us here--but just in case you do, it's something to be aware of and change somewhat. Sometimes even when you don't mean something a certain way, others perceive it in that way--a negative way--and they respond to that. The wrong tone can make staff resent you and resentment will not get anyone to do their best work.
I know someone who is very loud, very rude, and just very abrasive, and also very argumentative. She doesn't really mean to come across that way--it is just her nature and she isn't aware of how she comes across to co-workers and customers. She really has no idea how offensive she is--but I know very well that she offends many people. Because of her abrasive manner most of her co-workers do not like her, and that really breaks up the team work part of the staff.


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## Marty (Jan 9, 2010)

*any managers out there, how do you motivate a lazy staff?*

Ok I'll bite:

Krissy, I am not a "b" woman at all. I'm very easy to get along with and very easy to work for. But by golly, we run a very tight ship. We have worked ourselves to death for years and earned our good name and there is no way we will allow it to be destroyed by any slacker, and boy, we have had some doozies when we first began.

Krissy, my husband is a person that trusts people with a handshake. When we first began out new business here in Tennessee years ago, he took people at their word and trusted the people who he hired to do the job the way he trained them to. Training employees cost us money. We have to dump big money into them, their insurance, their tools, our company vans, offer way above average pay, etc. and therefore, they cannot make mistakes and screw up in any way. Mistakes not only costs us money and time, but can hurt our reputation. The first two years we went through people like water. They start off all gung-ho, but then they tend to slack off and we cannot have that one bit. You are correct in that some people just do not want to work. My husband is a perfectionist and takes great pride in our workmanship so you mess with that, and you are OUT plain and simple. No room for error, no room for slackers, none. We will not put up with having our lively-hood compromised.

At the same time early on in the company I managed the office and scheduling the work crews, the general thinking around here was that men don't take orders from a woman. I'd tell them one thing and they wouldn't move without having to double check what I said with my husband, bothering him when he was on another job somewhere. Sometimes, I'd send them out on one job, only to find out they went out on another they decided they should do first and just not pay any attention to me although I would explain in detail why they had to do such and such a job in the order I needed them too. I'd tell them to go North, and they'd go South. Well I took that crap for so long too until there was such a screw up on a job which they did prematurely with the wrong materials costing us a fortune to re-do that I actually fired half a crew one day without even telling my husband until he came in a few hours later. This left us short of help which put us in another bind, but I got tired of being messed with and dis-respected too. From then on, trust me, every man on every crew knew I was the manager.

Years later when Michael died because of my breakdown, I had to leave my position and stay home. I tried to work from here best I could but we ended up having to hire two ladies to take my place. Once again it began all good, then they started to slack off. When hus began checking paperwork and other things he had found mistakes that they were out on their can. They knew better, but just got to the point where they didn't care.

Well I'm back now! And due to the slow economy we are only working a skeleton crew and have only the best of the best with us. There is no margin for error, especially in these hard times we are facing. Dan is running one crew and my step son runs the other and husband is riding herd on top of us all. There is not much work out there and what little there is, is still coming with us for the people's first choice as everyone knows we stand for excellence, even though we are not the cheapest company to go with. People will still pay more for us rather than to take a chance on anyone else so that speaks volumes.

The moral of the story Krissy is that if you value your reputation and your business, you cannot afford to have that compromised by anyone and any deal you have entered in. You are allowing yourself to be dis-repected terribly. You have to get rid of the slackers one way or the other or they will destroy your business and you will go down if you don't put a stop to it. You need to play a little hardball.

Good luck and best wishes for success.


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## krissy3 (Jan 9, 2010)

You know ...all I have to say at this point is "Thank you for the people that actually read my post thourally and gave a constructive suggestion" For the other 80% ... well you were of no help at all, and I am glad your not my employer. Maybe answer topics that you can relate to from now on. When I see a topic about breeding I dont try to answer the question, because I am not a breeder, I realize this forum is a public forum but usually when the header is "any managers out there" its geared for management personel only. When I read "advise on crippled foal , or topics about DNA, color testing , I am smart and humble enough to know its out of my league....I read to learn, I dont give my uneducated 2 cents worth on a topic I dont have any expierence with.



you should do the same


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## minimomNC (Jan 9, 2010)

I am a manager, I said that in my post. I run a district of 4 states with 50 employees (I would bet thats bigger than your hotel with kids working) so again you only want to hear that you are right and nothing else. Just like everything else you post. If people dont' agree with you, we are obviously wrong and have no idea of what we are talking about. Again if you don't want constructive help, just PM the people you know will agree with you instead. And my last comment is why don't you just hire adults instead of kids if the kids aren't working out. Very simple answer.


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## Minimor (Jan 9, 2010)

krissy, just because some of us didn't state that we are managers doesn't mean we aren't. Some of us are just close lipped about our specific jobs because it is inappropriate to say anything much about those jobs and staff members on a public forum!

I have to say that I guess humble is in the eye of the beholder, cuz that's not a word I would have ever applied to you from what I've seen of you on this forum. Have you ever taken any management courses? Have you taken any general staff courses along the line of "creating a respectful workplace"? Of course with management courses people can still come away saying "none of that applies to me" and so get nothing out of the courses.

You may be glad that some here are not your employer, but if you are truly humble you will keep in mind that those same people are probably glad you are not their employee, and most likely would never hire you--and never work for you.

You should also keep in mind that you can learn from those who are not managers, but who are employees....those people have experience with managers, and can tell people what traits they see making a good manager, and which traits make a poor manager. There is something to be learned from all that are in the work force.


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## jayne (Jan 9, 2010)

OK, Krissy, after reading all of this, including your most recent snide comments, I feel compelled to respond. I have a tremendous amount of managerial experience, so much, in fact, that you're not even CLOSE to being in my league. A mom and pop hotel/restaurant with a handful of employees? Try hundreds of people working in multiple facilities, on multiple shifts making precision parts for the automotive and aerospace industries. Parts that if not made correctly could cause breakdowns with tragic consequences. Our company strategy was to put our facilities in small, rural towns where we could be a part of the community and build our workforce with the fine people there, so I totally understand the limitations of a small pool of potential employees from which to draw.

A good manager looks at a troublesome situation with an unbiased eye. If there is something that needs fixing, you first look at all the causes of the problem, then eliminate them one by one until you reach the desired result. You MANAGE the situation objectively. You also need to honestly assess how YOUR performance and/or behavior could be contributing to the situation.

A good manager outlines expectations for employees and acts swiftly and fairly when they are not being met, giving good feedback to the employee so he/she can best learn to meet the employer's needs and be a part of the team. If they continue to not meet the needs of the organization after proper training and coaching, then the employee is let go. No drama, no surprises. If it is made clear to the employees what needed to be improved and they didn't act on it, then they fired themselves. I have not had ONE employee be surprised when I called them in to separate them from the company. By that point they knew exactly what the expectations were and that they had had multiple chances to meet them but were unsuccessful.

Taking the individual human portion of your problem aside, you need to consider if having students from this training program is meeting your needs as well. How is it effecting your customer service? Your health and sanity? Your bottom line?

Lastly, a good manager doesn't come on to a public forum, start by telling 1/2 of the story, come back and tell more when you don't get the answers you want, then belittle the good people who took the time to offer suggestions. If you were one of my managers, you would be getting some serious feedback for this behavior immediately. Pull up your big girl panties, deal with the situation and quit airing your dirty laundry. It appears to me that you get some perverse satisfaction from stirring up drama like this. Don't you have enough to do already?

Jayne


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## Jill (Jan 9, 2010)

krissy3 said:


> You know ...all I have to say at this point is "Thank you for the people that actually read my post thourally and gave a constructive suggestion" For the other 80% ... well you were of no help at all, and I am glad your not my employer. Maybe answer topics that you can relate to from now on. When I see a topic about breeding I dont try to answer the question, because I am not a breeder, I realize this forum is a public forum but usually when the header is "any managers out there" its geared for management personel only. When I read "advise on crippled foal , or topics about DNA, color testing , I am smart and humble enough to know its out of my league....I read to learn, I dont give my uneducated 2 cents worth on a topic I dont have any expierence with.
> 
> 
> 
> you should do the same


Krissy, from what I've seen, the people who made remarks that upset you DO have management experience. I manage employees and own a business (and manage hundreds of millions in client assets -- but the money listens good!). There are so many things I want to learn more about, too, but I never open that up for public discussion when I'm not willing to at least tolerate input from all.


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## Marty (Jan 9, 2010)

Krissy, here is another suggestion:

Can you go somewhere to maybe take a class or two on how to be a manager? A business class of some kind for business management or restaurant management? Perhaps there is a University or school there where you can look into something like that and a class to enhance your people skills. We all do have to keep in mind you are in another country and things are different and difficult for you. Maybe you would excel in a formal learning setting like that where you can learn how to get your point across to your employees much easier. Best wishes again.


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## miniwhinny (Jan 9, 2010)

Krissy, I've stayed out of this thread but I see it getting worse and worse. I do have some input, perhaps it may not be what you want to hear.

This is from a different perspective...this is from way too many psych classes in college hahaha and I'm going to be blunt ...

I don't think it's your employees - I think it's you. I don't say that to hurt - I really think you see it differently.

Take a look at how you have reacted to people trying to help you here - you have been outright hostile and rude in some of your responses ( I'm expecting to be one of them after this - no worries lol) If you treat your employees this way too no wonder they don't want to work well.

Your threads have stuck out in my mind for a long time...because they start with you completely on the attack and end in you begging for them to be removed from the message board. Threads like the one you titled "I have THE worse husband in the world" where you went on to completely rip him to shreds, blame him for everything wrong and then when your friends here (who believed you) bought into it and came to your defense - you turned completely around and went after them for not knowing the "whole situation" and then asked for the thread to be removed.

Then there was the one where you accused a breeder of being totally dishonest and attacked them and then asked for that thread to be removed (I remember this because for some unknown reason you asked me to get a mod to delete it)

and then there was THIS...this was copied and pasted word for word from one of YOUR old threads by me 5 minutes ago...if THIS is how you treat people who work for you then I think you have serious issues and really shouldn't be managing people because IMO - this is just mean.

.........................................................

"Hey, does anyone know a little bit about laws that protect employers... I had an employee , she was the housekeeper at our hotel, and the other day she started crying because I wouldnt let her go home to be with her child , threw her keys at me and quit. Ok to defend myself , she is paid on a salary, and gets 2 or so months off work (down season) with pay. She has a child that she doesnt want to leave at home after school . She will sometimes have her child here when she works , and I always tell her if she must the kid can stay here and watch TV in our hotel while our employee finishes her work. The kid doesnt want to be here I guess, and this employee always comes to me and says " Me go Casa, bambino" ok I say as long as your work is finished , and the rooms are clean " finito" she says everyday at 2:00 ...and everyday when I check the rooms she has done a sloppy , fast job. So this day I said ...no your not going home until I check your work, and if you cant think of something to do , go work in the kitchen , she had only put in a 6 hour day at the most. I told her to get her kid and bring her here. She cried and went down in the laundry room , said some bad things about me , and I told her there was a room that hadnt been done, she said "No..finito" I said NO NOT FINITO, she argued , and i said something really stupid .I said the F***ing room is dirty. then she threw her keys at me and she never came back. today we got a notice in the mail that she wants to collect unemployment. my question is this ....if she walks out on her job, no notice , breaks a work comtract that was until the end of the season, can she collect unemployment. We are in Switzerland , but i believe the laws are similer, and I cant read the swiss laws, its in German.This burns me that she can just walk out on her job , and collect unemployment.

any info would be great"

........................................................

I don't think from how you treat people that you really care about them at all as human beings.

...and as the mom of two unbelievable teenagers who volunteer in their community, work, are lettered in sports, 4.gpa in school even with AP classes, I'm saddened for young people in general when sweeping statements are thrown out like the ones you made.


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## Vertical Limit (Jan 9, 2010)

My question is....... if you all know your posts come off as counter productive and you know it's not doing any good to reply then why waste your time? If you know time and time again that this has happened with other threads then quit replying. It's that simple. It's almost like some want to keep up an arguement going for the sake of an arguement. Forget it! You are all beating a dead horse.



:BeatDeadHorse






But of course some love to beat dead horses. Freedom of speech....I guess.....but it seems so pointless. Must be too cold to do much but sit at the computer.



It's all your choice to keep this going or to end it. Gee, I wonder what the outcome will be.


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## Sonya (Jan 9, 2010)

Very well said Carol!


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## Minimor (Jan 9, 2010)

Carol--it could be because some have eternal optimism--you know, believing (or hoping) that this time will be different, that maybe the request for input is sincere and a reply will actually help.

Ignoring would be best, no doubt, but still....where would we be without hope? We always have to have hope. And anyway, ignoring sort of has to be an all or none thing.


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## Vertical Limit (Jan 9, 2010)

Minimor said:


> Carol--it could be because some have eternal optimism


I hear you and do see your point......however, even an eternal optimist needs to know when to quit. But you all can just carry on from thread to thread. Have fun! And I leave this thread with a quote from Forrest Gump....."and that's all I have to say about that"


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## minie812 (Jan 12, 2010)

I have to agree with Jill. I managed 26 Home Health Aides for four years. The company had me take over cause the RN's could not do the job




They had two nurses doing the job and they could not stay on top of it. Needless to say having been in the field for 15 yrs I knew what was to be expected. There was alot of firing going on the first month but the ones that were doing their job, well I made sure they got bonuses



and raises and other things for a job well done! Word got around that we were a good place to work for and we became the second biggest agency in the city and that is thanks to good employees. Sometimes it isn't about the money but knowing that you are appriciated for a job well done


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