# How long does it take for a sedative to wear off?



## Technicolor Pony (Oct 8, 2008)

Good morning,

Our 12 year old mini stallion had to have his teeth floated yesterday, and the vet I believe gave him ACE. Now I am aware that his mouth is very sore/tender this morning, but I noticed he is still not quite himself. How long does it take for the sedative to completely wear off, or is he just off because of a sore mouth? He is nibbling at his food some, a few nibbles of grass occassionally, and drinking water, but that's about it. He had some pretty good hooks going on in there. If it is just a sore mouth, is there anything I can give him to make him more comfortable?

Thanks for reading!

Chris


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## targetsmom (Oct 8, 2008)

I am not an expert on this at all, so perhaps someone else will jump on. But I did have the vet here Monday doing some teeth and he used a sedative on one of them. The mini was back to himself by the time the vet left an hour or so later. I am not positive what sedative he used but I don't think it was ACE. It just calmed him down so he could be worked on. He is 6 and his teeth weren't that bad. Hope your mini recovers soon. If I were you I would call the vet and see what they say.


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## wildoak (Oct 8, 2008)

Call your vet if you are still concerned about him - sedative from yesterday should be long gone. It's more likely that his mouth is sore if he had extensive work done and if that's the case, your vet may suggest something for pain.

Jan


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## Minimor (Oct 8, 2008)

When we've had to sedate, the drug usually wears off in an hour or so. The last time we sedated one was when little Secret hurt her eye last year--the vet gave her a pretty good dose--had her real wobbly on her feet anyway--and within an hour she was pretty much back to normal.

I'm surprised that your vet would give ACE to a stallion--my vet wouldn't, I don't think--and I wouldn't allow any vet to administer ACE to any of my boys for a routine procedure.

If your guy's mouth is very sore that may be all that is wrong with him. Something like that can make them seem quite listless and depressed.


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## Nathan Luszcz (Oct 8, 2008)

Acepromazine should NEVER be given to stallions!!! Slap your vet HARD if they want to use it for sedation!!

Ace should wear off pretty quickly, usually in less than a half hour if given IV, a little longer if IM.


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## disneyhorse (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm another one surprised that Acepromazine was given to a STALLION... for anyone out there.. the rule of thumb is NO ACE for STALLIONS!!! There could be very, very, very bad consequences to this!!!

I doubt any tranquilizer would still be on board after so long though, he sounds like he's probably just really sore. Make sure you are giving him softer food such as soaked pellets or Equine Senior... and ask your vet about a little bit of Banamine or something to take the edge off?

Andrea


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## Technicolor Pony (Oct 8, 2008)

Thanks everybody... I'll call the vet to find out for sure what he gave him... it may not have been ACE, I'll check and see.

Out of curiousity, what is the issue with ACE?

Thanks again,

Chris

Edited to add I just called the vet, and they said they use Rompin (I don't really know how to spell it)...(I just assumed ACE as that is what another vet had used on my gelding when he had his teeth floated and I KNOW BETTER than to assume) and that's it's probably just his teeth as he had to do a good bit of work. They told me to rinse his mouth and that I can give him banamine for the pain...

Thanks again...


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## txminipinto (Oct 8, 2008)

ACE can cause a stallion's penis to drop and swell. The swelling can cause unrepairable damage to the penis which results in amputation of the penis. Very minute dosages of ace can be used in stallions and have been used without this horrible side effect. BUT, these amounts are not enough to properly sedate a horse for a float.


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## Technicolor Pony (Oct 8, 2008)

Thanks so much Carin! My vet is really good, and I trust him with our horses. It was my mistake to assume ACE, no more assumptions for me... That is what I love about this forum, is all the things I've learned. Matter of fact, yesterday when the vet was out here, he also checked our new Shetland mare who has sticking stifles, and I was telling him all the things I'd learned on here and excercises and such, he was very surprise and glad that we had researched. He also does corrective shoeing (though only in emergency and severe cases now that he is older) and was helpful in instructing with our hoof trimming as we cannot find a farrier withing 2 hours of here that will do miniatures. This guy really knows his stuff and is great to work with.

Thanks again everybody,

Chris


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 8, 2008)

Now thats why I LOVE this forum! I never know when I'll learn something new here. I have never had to have a horse sedated and certainly had never heard that ACE is contra-indicated for use on stallions. Considering the severity of the reaction it is important information to have. Thanks all.


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## Margo_C-T (Oct 8, 2008)

If you have a large dose syringe, or even a turkey baster that you can 'dedicate' to use on your horses, I'd suggest rinsing w/ warm salt water...works for humans, don't know why it wouldn't for horses! I'd suggest trying that first; a few times of that, and just the passage of time, along with perhaps soaking his feed so it is soft, might be enough, and no need for medication...

If you do use banamine, I'd also suggest a light dosage--my vet told me years ago that even in colics, a light dosage--say, 2/3 to 3/4 of a normal dose for the horse's weight--would provide relief and not 'mask' symptoms. Banamine can be hard on a horse's stomach, no matter how administered, so IMO shouldn't be given unless there is GOOD reason.

I am NOT a vet, just someone who's taken care of multiple horses for many, MANY years!

Acepromazine is a tranquilizer, not a sedative in the sense one is needed for a procedure such as gelding, in my understanding(you vets or vet techs-if I am dead wrong, I'd be pleased to be corrected with knowledge!) I will say that I'd not ever before actually HEARD the reason why it wouldn't be for use on a stallion, though I do know I'd NEVER known of a vet to use it on one....I do not think I've EVER had a horse that was given Ace on 'my watch'....if so, it would have been MANY years ago. One reason being, I am VERY conservative about 'promoting', or even allowing, the use of such things...there would have to be an OVERWHELMINGLY SOUND reason for me to allow it on a horse of mine.

Margo


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 8, 2008)

Acepromazine is a tranquilizer, not a sedative in the sense one is needed for a procedure such as gelding

Yes, of course, just a careless phrasing on my part. I actually agree with you on not using these (or any) drugs indiscriminately. I don't treat minimal pain or small injuries with a pain killer since I believe pain (as long as it is not too severe) has a purpose and will encourage the horse to protect the injury somewhat which will allow it to heal more quickly. Each situation must be evaluated seperately of course but in general I don't like to use too many drugs. JMO

I like the turkey baster idea, it would be useful for flushing the mouth for various purposes.


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## babygoose (Oct 8, 2008)

Doesn't ACE also have the potential to have the same side effects in geldings that it would in stallions? If so I would think that use on male horses in general would be discouraged. Even though a gelding isn't used to breed still wouldn't be good!


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## liltnt (Oct 8, 2008)

just had my boys done, along with a full size horse. One my littlier one was still sore the next day the sedative was really something to watch Poor little guy just leaned against the fence for support. I dont think it was to much for him but he didnt want to eat the next morning so I knew he was a bit sore. He doesnt miss a meal. I felt so bad for all of them but I noticed even the big horse was not eating his food. But they were ok. My vet gave all of them a shot of bute, I asked about that, then gave me a tube of bute and gastrogard just in case they needed it the followinday. Boy was that an eye opening experience.


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## rubymtminis (Oct 8, 2008)

I have read on this forum not to use Bute on minis also. Use Banamine. I have a question, While living in another state, I had two vets, and they had no problem leaving me Banamine or Rompum, knowing I followed directions and used any sparingly. I had registered *mini* goats that were disbudded with the Rompum (sp). But where I live now, the vets in this area, who have floated teeth for me, and given vaccinations and such refuse to even discuss dispensing me ANYTHING so I could have it on hand if an emergency arises. I live in a very rural way out area, and they have seen my animals as stated, so they know I take good care and am experienced. Now the question, how do so many of you get Banamine to have for as-needed times?


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## WLS (Oct 8, 2008)

Like to share my experience as well on this subject. A few years ago my vet floated the teeth of my mare (without sedation, bad mistake), the mare reared during the procedure, causes the vet to float her gums. Ouch!! She developed a very nasty infection in her mouth. Her breath smelt like sewage. Had to have her treated with Penicillin, gave her warm water with salt to drink which she loved, and fed her soaked roughage chunks for a few days. And now we always sedate the horse for floating. Live and Learn.


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## eagles ring farm (Oct 8, 2008)

Here is what I copied and pasted off this forum some time ago about ACE and Stallions

Never use Ace (sedative) on a stallion

Ace can cause penile paralysis in intact males. If they get sexually excited while sedated they can increase their chances of this career ending problem. If they can not retract their penis it will collect edema and will eventually die. Amputation is not an uncommon fate if the paralysis can't be managed. Obviously, this is bad for a breeding stallion.

Ace's effects are also risks for geldings, but the risk is 100x less, plus, amputation of a gelding, while still horrible, is not career or life ending. Ace is commonly used to help geldings relax and drop allowing their sheaths to be cleaned.


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## Leeana (Oct 8, 2008)

I have a few horses that are a complete pain in the butt to clip, really nearly impossible to clip my one with out sedative. My vet gives me Dormasedan (Or....Dorma-Satan as i like to call it....) and it takes about 8 minutes to take affect and will last about two and half hours. You have to make sure, when you put the horse back in the stall to have the water and hay/feed out of the stall as he could drown or choke. I always pick everything out of the stall (shavings...water..everything) when i get done with one and stall them so they can get it out of their system. Then put them in the roundpen to walk it off after so long...


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## Becky (Oct 8, 2008)

> Now the question, how do so many of you get Banamine to have for as-needed times?


My vet EXPECTS me to have Banamine on hand!




I've been a horse breeder/trainer for so many years that I practically have my own pharmacy of basic drugs and medications. There are some things that I just need to have on hand to use for injuries or illnesses. I can get Banamine through my vet or any of the local equine veterinarians.


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## Nathan Luszcz (Oct 8, 2008)

txminipinto said:


> Very minute dosages of ace can be used in stallions and have been used without this horrible side effect.


That is incorrect... ANY amount, ANY time can cause penile paralysis. You can use it 100 times in a row, or you could have a reaction the first time you use it. There is no rhyme or reason behind the reaction, so it is almost impossible to predict. Avoid acepromazine at all costs, and any sedative in the Ace family (none used commonly, but there are other flavors).

There is one situation which can increase the risk of Ace... if the stallion gets aroused while under sedation or just before the risk is drastically increased.

There are some very specific cases in which ace MIGHT be used in a stallion, but its only because the risk of death is more than the risk of paralysis. One example would be a serious case of laminitis. (Ace causes the blood vessels to dilate and increase blood flow to the feet.)

Penile paralysis can happen to geldings too; the risk is about 10x less than stallions. The drug is commonly used to get geldings to drop their penis for a sheath cleaning. The reason that this drug isn't contraindicated in geldings is if they DO get paralysis the consequences for a gelding are less than that of a stallion (not in my mind, but a gelding doesn't exactly need to penetrate mares).


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## wildoak (Oct 8, 2008)

> the vets in this area, who have floated teeth for me, and given vaccinations and such refuse to even discuss dispensing me ANYTHING so I could have it on hand if an emergency arises. I live in a very rural way out area, and they have seen my animals as stated, so they know I take good care and am experienced. Now the question, how do so many of you get Banamine to have for as-needed times?


I can't imagine my vet refusing to give me banamine to keep on hand! Like Becky, I've been at this a long time and I have my own small "pharmacy" here. Sounds kind of high-handed of the vet to me, ask them what happens in an emergency when they can't get there and you have a horse in a critical situation? A little trust is needed both ways in a vet/client relationship, and we obviously have to trust them with our horses health and lives.

Jan


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## disneyhorse (Oct 8, 2008)

Most vets are fine with the "usual stuff" to have on hand... SMZ, Banamine, Bute, Ace, etc. as far as I know, most don't have a problem with that... If your vet refuses, then maybe you can buy a larger quantity than you need next time he's out so you can stock up?

Andrea


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## txminipinto (Oct 9, 2008)

Nathan Luszcz said:


> txminipinto said:
> 
> 
> > Very minute dosages of ace can be used in stallions and have been used without this horrible side effect.
> ...



Sorry, Nathan, but it is not INCORRECT. I have personally used ace (1-3mg) under the direct direction of anesthesiologists in recovery stalls while I'm recovering 1000lb plus stallions. NOW, a layperson should NEVER do this but I'm not exactly a layperson when it comes anesthesia or analgesia.


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## Nathan Luszcz (Oct 9, 2008)

That doesn't mean that its safe... there is no correlation between dose and side effects for this drug. Like I said there are times that ace is used with stallions, but only when the risk of not using ace outweighs the risk of paralysis. Every time you use ace you are gambling. There is no way to decrease the risk, but there are ways to increase it (ie teasing).

You can give ace hundreds of times with hundreds of full doses without a reaction, or you could get a reaction the very first time the drug is administered, there is no way to predict or to modulate the risks.


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## Technicolor Pony (Oct 10, 2008)

Just wanted to let everyone know that Pride is finally getting back to himself today... Eating well, and grazing well.... I let his son hang out with him today (they are big buddies) and they had a big time. Thanks again for all the advice and information!

Chris

Edited for spelling


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## Hosscrazy (Oct 10, 2008)

I am so glad to hear that he's feeling better - that is wonderful news!!! Ditto on the banamine - we all have banamine on hand in case of an emergency. Regarding bute, I also read here years ago that bute should not be given to minis, which I believed at the time. It was one of the worst mistakes/mis-information I've made to date. Bute can be safe when given correctly. That's the operative word. Correctly.

Anyway, glad to hear he's doing better - YEAH!

Liz R.


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