# Second wreck :(



## Knottymare (Oct 1, 2012)

Back in the beginning of the month, at the PNW beach drive, my mare had a bucking fit about 45 minutes into our drive, resulting in my cart being flipped. I was able to ground drive her back to the trailer thanks to others who took my cart and dog.. Up till that weekend, she had been safe everywhere. She'd been driven around fireworks, over bubble wrap, through all kinds of trails, up and down hills, in traffic, around bikes, machines, etc... and when we were frollicking down the beach, busted out in a bucking fit that wound up flipping my cart and ending my driving for the weekend. I did ground drive her, both back from the beach to the trailer and then all over the place at the campgrounds and she was fine, even next to the stallions that we thought might have been the reason she was bucking.

After a month of desensitizing and relaxation, I hitched her up yesterday and ground drove her for quite a while before putting her to the cart. Everything was smooth sailing. She was excited about getting out but not nervous or uptight at all. Got out on the road after a few spins around the house and all was going well until I reached forward to touch her breeching to see if it was too tight and off she went, into another extreme bucking fit. This time, she rolled us into a ditch, got her leg over one of the shafts, and was suspended with her front feet on the ground and the cart wheels on the ground with her back legs straddling the shaft suspended in the air. As I worked to free her, she managed to flip the cart and ran over me and dragged the cart over me. She ran into some bushes and fortunately got stuck there where I could free her and ground drive her home, going back to collect my yard sale later. All this happened with an improvised bucking strap in place, adjusted exactly how I have seen illustrated, with enough slack for her to move, but tight enough to supposedly keep her from getting her legs up too high. I'm waiting for my bucking strap to arrive from Iowa Valley Carriage... Both times, by the time I was able to unhitch her, she was terrified out of her mind, flinching at the slightest touch and ready to take off like a rocket. When I got her home, we worked on desensitation till we were both exhausted. I wanted her to stop and wait for me to get her free. Period.

Talked to a very experienced driver/trainer this morning and the news isn't good. It was suggested that after two wrecks it is not very likely that this mare will ever be safe to drive. I'm not sure I'll ever feel safe driving her. I'm not afraid... I don't scare easily, but I just came out of almost 2 years of being laid up and I'm not willing to risk my health over a horse that has a bug up her butt!

This horse is a rescue, by the way, one who was found wandering loose in Port Orchard some 5 or 6 years ago and was given to me with no history.

Lovely, eh?


----------



## fourluckyhorseshoes (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm so sorry. I'm sure it was absolutely terrifying. Wishing you the best of luck on whatever you decide.


----------



## susanne (Oct 1, 2012)

.

I'm so sorry to hear this, Mary.

While some might be willing to take the risks involved in retraining her to drive, considering your previous injuries, I would agree with the trainer. You really cannot get injured again -- your babies need you healthy!

Dolly is such a sweetheart...do you enjoy trick training? Liberty (so she could show off that beautiful trot...)? How about training her in halter-free obstacle?


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks. I wasn't afraid. More disappointed than anything. This mare was loving driving so there are holes I left in her training somewhere or she comes with some baggage that I am unaware of. Sadly, I don't know if she'll be able to get past this. She has beautiful movement and can really cover the ground. She's a BLAST to drive when she's sane. I'm sure it's a combination of me not seeing the signs and her having something going on in her head that I am not aware of. I found out recently that she was found wandering Port Orchard and taken in by a nice person. That person located her owner who wanted nothing to do with her so she kept her. Dolly foaled shortly after that (they were surprised because she was thin and didn't look pregnant and the foal was huge. The gal who had her and the foal died from cancer and one of her friends took Dolly and the colt but Dolly was too aggressive with her herd of full size horses so she gave her to my friend who leant her to me to be a companion to my older riding horse.

Dolly quickly won my heart and I spent over a year working on the ground with her and getting to know her, then was off for almost 2 years due to health stuff. She was back in the groove as soon as I could get going and has been doing pretty well since then.

If she's registered, I don't know about it. I'd love to breed her because she is a lovely silver buckskin and her movement if really nice. She has a really pretty ground covering high kneed trot that just blows my mind... but unregistered horses? I don't know how I feel about that. So many already need homes. I'd only breed for myself and I have 2 other minis.

I just hate for her to become a pasture pet when she loves to work so much.


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 1, 2012)

susanne said:


> .
> 
> I'm so sorry to hear this, Mary.
> 
> ...


Susanne, that is a GREAT idea. I have been teaching her some tricks and she loves to do it. That is a fantastic idea. Thanks. It's hard. I am really down about this. I love her so much. But I don't want to get broken anymore!

(((hugs)))


----------



## susanne (Oct 1, 2012)

Have you ever seen Cavalia, either in person or on video? (You can rent their dvd or watch a lot of it on YouTube) I love their liberty work, as the love and respect between horse and handler are so evident. Having watched you work with Dolly, I think the two of you could do some amazing things and have great fun. I hope Amy Lacy (ClickMini) sees this, as she took a master class with a former Cavalia liberty trainer/handler.


----------



## Marsha Cassada (Oct 1, 2012)

What a nightmare. Everyone's worst driving fear. Glad to hear you both came out able to stand right side up.


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 1, 2012)

susanne said:


> Have you ever seen Cavalia, either in person or on video? (You can rent their dvd or watch a lot of it on YouTube) I love their liberty work, as the love and respect between horse and handler are so evident. Having watched you work with Dolly, I think the two of you could do some amazing things and have great fun. I hope Amy Lacy (ClickMini) sees this, as she took a master class with a former Cavalia liberty trainer/handler.


I did go to Cavalia and was very impressed. And I know Amy through Kim so I will be sure to ask about this and getting together with her. Great idea!

Thanks.

I am really going to miss our nice little quiet rides down the country lanes, though. Now I really need to get Rio's harness her and get her driving!


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 1, 2012)

Marsha Cassada said:


> What a nightmare. Everyone's worst driving fear. Glad to hear you both came out able to stand right side up.


Thanks. I guess I'm just lucky, right?

Sadly, it's probably more the Green plus Green = Black and Blue situation here... however, I'm not THAT green Jeez! I've been around horses my whole life and have trained for years. Driving is new to me, though. Don't have as far to fall, that's a plus!


----------



## dreamlandnh (Oct 1, 2012)

A very good friend of mine had two accident driving with a horse. After many people giving their thoughts and a few saying to not let the horse continue driving he was sent off for some driving with a trainer and then they went down and had some lessons and the horse his driving again. Yes, there are many steps that are done before the driver gets into the cart but this horse has now shown at some 4H shows driving with just a few in his class and he has gone to Nationals and went in a large class (though he didn't pin, he did get around the ring so that is a WIN in my eyes). The first time the boy drove his horse this year I was with him from start to finish and I cried when he came out of the ring with a blue ribbon along with his mom. I'm not saying don't give up driving with this horse but to really look at the whole picture and maybe if you can bring the horse to a trainer for them to work with first. Good luck and glad you are ok.


----------



## ksoomekh (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm so sorry you are going through this difficult time. I'm certain you will make the best decision that will be in both your best interests.

Karen


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 1, 2012)

dreamlandnh said:


> A very good friend of mine had two accident driving with a horse. After many people giving their thoughts and a few saying to not let the horse continue driving he was sent off for some driving with a trainer and then they went down and had some lessons and the horse his driving again. Yes, there are many steps that are done before the driver gets into the cart but this horse has now shown at some 4H shows driving with just a few in his class and he has gone to Nationals and went in a large class (though he didn't pin, he did get around the ring so that is a WIN in my eyes). The first time the boy drove his horse this year I was with him from start to finish and I cried when he came out of the ring with a blue ribbon along with his mom. I'm not saying don't give up driving with this horse but to really look at the whole picture and maybe if you can bring the horse to a trainer for them to work with first. Good luck and glad you are ok.


I'd be happy to send her out for training... but the trainer that I really admire is the one who said it's not a very good bet she'll pull out of this. The accidents were pretty extreme. I'm really glad for your friend that he is ok. Sounds like he is a kid? That could be incredibly scary!


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 1, 2012)

Oh, Mary...I'm so sorry to hear this! I know she was really overreactive about her hindquarters after the first accident and ESPECIALLY now that touching her breeching has once again set her off, I'm going to strongly reiterate my feeling that you need to get Dolly to a vet and have her checked for ovarian cysts or other reproductive abnormalities. It's my understanding that such things in mares can cause spectacular sensitivity and over-reactions in some cases and I would want to rule out any physical cause before assuming she's not drivable.

If the reason for her blowups is physical and not mental you can probably get her back to work; the hard part is erasing the fear the accidents themselves may have instilled and convincing her that whatever pain she felt won't come up again. Where you generally aren't going to have much luck with restarting a horse is when the reason for their accidents is mental. Most will not come out of that to be a safe driving horse after several severe accidents from a fear-based or personal-issue-based cause.

Dolly has been thoroughly desensitized and well-handled and your equipment is pretty good. I'm really suspicious of a physical cause of some kind, be it hormone-related or nerve pain or something. It's worth checking out! Meanwhile, do the trick and liberty work and bond with her. It never hurts to have that tight bond when you're asking them to do something that makes them shake like hold still while you cut them out of tangled harness.






You might also try talking to a reputable animal communicator and see if you can find out what's going on in her head. Sometimes it can really help if you have the right person!

Leia


----------



## susanne (Oct 1, 2012)

Excellent point, Leia. In addition to possible escalation of health issues, unaddressed internal pain could cause problems in any activity and be dangerous to you and others. Who knows, this could even be what made the previous owner not want her back...pain may have made her unmanageable in less-experienced hands.


----------



## BigDogs & LittleHorses (Oct 1, 2012)

Oh, shoot, that's a real bummer.



Was hoping it was just hormones and stallions around last time. Glad you two are okay though.

I've also got one that just didn't work out, for what ever reason. She would also have random bucking fits, good days and bad days according to the trainer. Maybe she could be worked through it if I had the time, an arena, a heavier cart kicking straps, and ??? but that's just not in the cards, and I'd never trust her. That's the key.

I ride dirt bikes and three-wheelers. Three-wheelers were banned years ago because advocacy groups decided they were dangerous. They WERE dangerous to new riders. You have to ride them quite a bit differently than anything else, on their terms. Once you know how they react, they're actually quite predictable and versatile. I suppose many dirt bike or ATV riders would consider driving a small horse a sissy thing. I don't... driving a vehicle with a mind and will independent of yours? No brakes? It's nuts. It probably would be banned if it didn't have such a long history.

Of course, It's also magical when everything goes right.

It's sad when you've got your hopes up and have put up all of the time (or money). Have you considered buying a pre-trained, proven driving horse? I think that's what I'm going to go with when Dancer "retires".


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 1, 2012)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Oh, Mary...I'm so sorry to hear this! I know she was really overreactive about her hindquarters after the first accident and ESPECIALLY now that touching her breeching has once again set her off, I'm going to strongly reiterate my feeling that you need to get Dolly to a vet and have her checked for ovarian cysts or other reproductive abnormalities. It's my understanding that such things in mares can cause spectacular sensitivity and over-reactions in some cases and I would want to rule out any physical cause before assuming she's not drivable.
> 
> If the reason for her blowups is physical and not mental you can probably get her back to work; the hard part is erasing the fear the accidents themselves may have instilled and convincing her that whatever pain she felt won't come up again. Where you generally aren't going to have much luck with restarting a horse is when the reason for their accidents is mental. Most will not come out of that to be a safe driving horse after several severe accidents from a fear-based or personal-issue-based cause.
> 
> ...


All EXCELLENT ideas. Thanks, Leia. It's hard to see clearly when something this emotional happens.

This evening, she came running to meet me at the gate and came right over and put her head in her halter. I was so happy for that small victory. I didn't expect it. I brought her out, handled her all over her body, hung on her some, played a little at liberty (she's getting pretty good at totting along with me and stopping when I say "whoa" and she's good at giving handshakes and smiling so we did all those things, then I released her into the field, got Rio, did some little activities with her (she has space issues so we are working on her respecting my space), then got Teddy and we worked on leading, stopping, standing handsome, being tied and groomed. The whole time, Dolly was respectfully watching.

This says to me that the work I did with her after the wreck was good and accomplished what I was hoping which was to firmly get back to the issue of sensitivity and getting her to trust me to get her out of the pickle. We ended on a positive note and today, she was really good...

I talked for a quite a while with Dorothy Whiteman and we have a plan to get Rio going as soon as her harness arrives. Meanwhile, I'm excited about taking Dolly in a direction that will help build her confidence both in herself and me. Then we'll see what we'll do.

I REALLY appreciate being able to come here and share my experiences and hope that by telling my story, someone else will learn from them.

She is an excellent babysitter, that is for sure!


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 1, 2012)

BigDogs & LittleHorses said:


> Oh, shoot, that's a real bummer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I'll have her vetted but meanwhile, we will enjoy other things together. I adore her.

And HA! Dancer retire? Never!


----------



## wildoak (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm sorry, and I surely sympathize. I had a similar thing happen with a mare a few years ago, we had been driving and showing, she was spectacular and so much fun to drive! Something spooked her at a show in a late night warm up and she had a bucking spell. All was ok after that, until Nationals that year where she had a full blown panic attack and tore up my cart. She is so sweet out of harness and loves attention, but I regretfully stopped driving her... no wish to get either of us hurt.

Jan


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 2, 2012)

wildoak said:


> I'm sorry, and I surely sympathize. I had a similar thing happen with a mare a few years ago, we had been driving and showing, she was spectacular and so much fun to drive! Something spooked her at a show in a late night warm up and she had a bucking spell. All was ok after that, until Nationals that year where she had a full blown panic attack and tore up my cart. She is so sweet out of harness and loves attention, but I regretfully stopped driving her... no wish to get either of us hurt.
> 
> Jan


So glad you were not hurt and that your mare is ok. It is so scary when you lose control. I was so fortunate that after she ran over me, she ran into a bush and got stuck. I cannot imagine the damage and terror that could have happened had she been able to continue to run. We have a lot of other ways to spend our time together and I will have her vet checked just to be sure.

It's good to share our experiences.


----------



## SilverRose Farms (Oct 3, 2012)

Coming back from wrecks is scary and can take a long time. But it can be done. You have to be aware. And definitely as Leia said rule out ANYTHING Physical.. Internally or externally.

Even horses with major abuse in their past can still be taught to drive and trust. YOU as a driver just have to be aware and know how and when to drive and the changes in them prior.

I have one mare who learned that she didnt have to drive is she threw herself on the ground. She would just trot along and drop. I had the vet and chiropractor and everyone all over that mare she looked and Im sure FELT like a science project. However once I established that there was no reason for the dropping I started watching for it making note of what happened before during and after.

Now this mare wouldnt flail around or anything once she was on the ground she would just lay there. The look of shock on her face when I got out and just waited was hilarious. (I was rather embarrassed as we ended up with an audience at the barn where we were boarded) However I just waited her out. She laid there for 10 minutes then grunted at me and stood up shook the dirt off herself and waited. I got back in asked her to walk she did stomping her feet the whole time. 5 more minutes went by (our audience left thankfully) I asked for transitions up and down changed directions collected extended I was just about getting ready to call it quits cause I wanted to end on a good note when AGAIN she threw herself to the ground... again we got an audience who proceeded to criticize everything. I ignored them didnt let them acknowledge my mare in anyway. And again I waited this time she laid there for 20 minutes before getting up... again same thing ignored it went walk trot transitions and everything I did actually manage to call it quits before she pulled it a third time that night. This happened for a solid week. Then every 2 weeks she would do it once in a while... now 4 years later she hasnt done it since. I do know she does it and keep that in mind every time I drive her. But she is now proving to be a very very reliable and stunning driving horse.


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 4, 2012)

First, let me say thank you so much for the encouragement and sharing your experience...

I agree with you - to a point. I do agree that with time (lots of time) and proper conditioning, I could get her to drive again - perhaps only in a very controlled environment but I could drive her again. I know the steps to take, the process, but I also know that I would always have the next wreck in my mind. Because, even with an extreme amount of counter-conditioning, there would always be a chance that in the right (wrong) set of circumstances, she would revert to her default which is not just a little bucking fit but a full blown, terror driven, willing to hurt herself kind of bucking fit. Every horse has that default thing they do. Some shut down and either lay down, like yours, or any number of other things like just stand there and glaze over, jig, chew the bit, shake their head... Horses are always trying to tell us if they are happy or not. Some slowly escalate and if we are carefully watching, we can intervene in the situation before a total mental collapse happens. In Dolly's case, she has gone from being forward and happy to a bit irritable to a complete collapse in a matter of seconds. I try but obviously am not always successful at reading my horses LOL... but I do try awfully hard. In Dolly's case, I clearly missed something! This last time, I don't think she even showed any irritability - she just exploded as soon as I touched her breeching.

This last wreck, Dolly had been thoroughly groomed, handled, gently tacked up, every peice of harness was tested, shaken, pulled and tested before the cart was introduced. I tried to get her to buck before we ever saw the cart but she was unperterbed and was in a good frame of mind and very willing throughout the whole thing. We'd been doing it for weeks so for her, it was just another game with a cookie at the end of it. When I brought over the cart, I again tested everything. As I attached every part, it was tested. When she was fully tacked, I rocked the cart back and forth, putting pressue on the breeching and crupper especially, carefully watching her reaction. She was ears forward or listening the entire time. No pinned ears or sour expression. No tail switching, no foot stomping, no teeth grinding. Nothing but a relaxed, licking and chewing horse.

There are so many "ifs"... IF I were younger (I'm not dead but I am 50 and have fibromyalgia), IF I wasn't recently recovering from not only a completely reconstructed knee but also a major ankle break, IF I had a ton of time and no other horses that needed work... I could devote all my time to this. I'm not saying I'm not going to work with her... in fact, right after the accident, both times, I went right to work with her and we ended with a stronger bond and we both felt safe and comfortable with each other. There were no "don't go there" spots on her body, no resistance, no fear of the equipment or the environment. She ended both episodes a willing and enthusiastic partner.

What I know is that no matter what I discover in this process, be it a physical issue that is "fixable" or a mental issue that will take counter-conditioning, I will not feel safe in a cart behind her. At least I cannot envision that at this time. That might change. But right now, I cannot imagine it. I have another mare that has a very even keeled personality and while she won't be the Porsche to drive that Dolly was, she'll be fine and fun and safe as her default when she is pushed to her limit is to just stop and stomp her princess feet. I also have a colt that I'll be bringing up every step of the way so hopefully, he'll be a good driving horse in 3 or so years.

I say all of this to share my thought process as I hope that all our experiences, good, bad and otherwise, will help someone else. I'll continue to update everyone with Dolly's progress and believe me, no one will be happier than me if one day I can come back here and report that once again, she and I are enjoying a good trot down a sunny country road!

Meanwhile, we have a LOT of tricks to learn together!

Cheers

Mary


----------



## ksoomekh (Oct 4, 2012)

I understand why you don't want to drive her anymore. A friend of mine came off and was injured while riding one of my nice horses. I couldn't put anyone up on her again. I eventually sold her, and she is a really calm "safe" horse.

There is a driving instructor in our area who was in a significant wreck when her big horse's bridle came off through no fault of the horse. She told me she had to sell the horse, harness, and vehicle because she just couldn't drive the horse or use the harness and vehicle again. She is a great confident gal who continues to drive and instruct.

Best wishes,

Karen


----------



## Carolyn R (Oct 4, 2012)

I was absolutely going to say there's some holes in the training. I haven't read everything, but if you are in it for the long haul with this mare, I would say send her out for training from the ground up.

Good luck.


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 4, 2012)

Carolyn R said:


> I was absolutely going to say there's some holes in the training. I haven't read everything, but if you are in it for the long haul with this mare, I would say send her out for training from the ground up.
> 
> Good luck.


It would be a good idea to read the thread.

I don't think there is a horse out there that doesn't have a "hole" in it's training somewhere so please don't get me wrong - I am not thinking that I know it all (don't by a long shot) but I also spent a Loooooooooooooong time on the ground with this mare before ever putting her to the cart and we had at least 50 good long drives under all kinds of conditions before we ever had a problem. She's been around fireworks, over bubble wrap, through the woods, through cattle, dogs chickens, ducks, pigs, around bikes, motorcycles, crowds of kids, balloons, umbrellas...

I only know a tiny bit of her background (found abandoned wandering on a country road pregnant) and nothing of the 13 years prior to that so there very well could be a trigger that I'm unaware of or, more likely, some kind of physical situation going on. Vet appt has been made.

It could be that she's ultra sensitive to alfalfa which has been added to her diet as prep for winter to increase protein so that I can free feed the local hay that I have. Could be so many things! 

If only we could ask them. But, the fact remains that I really don't want another wreck. So, we have gone back to ground zero. I will not send her out to a trainer for a couple of reasons... the few that I respect and can afford that are willing to take on an unregistered horse from an unknown background have already discussed her with me and both agreed that she would likely never be safe again because she has these experiences in her mind and will, if pushed, go there again. I also have other horses with known backgrounds that I am working with and one has already been driven. I'll be driving her soon, as I will be working with her from the ground up with a trainer.

Dolly is a very suspicious mare by nature. It took me a long time to get her to trust me just touching her. We've come a long way and sadly, have this set back. But, she's going nowhere. She's a good mare, a great babysitter and can still enjoy all kinds of activities that don't involve a cart.

So, onward! The adventure continues!


----------



## Carolyn R (Oct 4, 2012)

That's great that you are in it for the long haul with her and don't consider her a throwaway, like so many would. I wish for nothing but the best for you when it comes to driving with a different companion. I was just commenting in agreement with one of your earlier posts in this thread as to having a hole in her training.

Not in your situation, but I cringe when steps are skipped and people blame the horse, not the poor training. Good luck and happy trails.


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 4, 2012)

Carolyn R said:


> That's great that you are in it for the long haul with her and don't consider her a throwaway, like so many would. I wish for nothing but the best for you when it comes to driving with a different companion. I was just commenting in agreement with one of your earlier posts in this thread as to having a hole in her training.
> 
> Not in your situation, but I cringe when steps are skipped and people blame the horse, not the poor training. Good luck and happy trails.


No, poor girl's been thrown away already. She's staying. I wish I knew more about her background. I wish we'd never had a wreck! She's the funnest horse to drive. REALLY moves. And she was really having a good time... but something freaked her out. I would count it off to touch sensitivity but then I don't see that same sensitivity any other time.

I'm going to continue. And I'm going to put the harness on her and ground drive her and try to recreate the situation in a safer environment. I really do want to get her out and drive some more and likely, as time passes and my (poor) memory fades, I'll get her out again but right now, my good sense says to let it be and do other things with her. She is enjoying learning tricks and she's a lot of fun to take on hikes.





And, she's got the most gorgeous hazel eyes!


----------



## DJF Miniature Show Horses (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi Knottymare

Very sorry you went through 2 accidents with your mare. Its not your fault. I too have a mini mare I spent 2 years training to drive and I am a trainer.

She was fine for awhile driving and then started taking off like a racehorse! I would get her stopped and she would try running backwards real fast. Get her stopped and started kicking.

I ground drive her and she is perfect. Hitched fine until Im in the cart. She is extremely aggresive with other horses to the point of wanting to kill them!

Her mom was the same way. My vet thinks she has cysts on her ovaries. The breeching is putting pressure on her and the shafts could be too. Its something to ponder 

Another issue is teeth. When was the last dental your mare had? The driving cavesson can dig into impacted or hooks on the teeth.

I have major dental issues with my mare...but I have trained her for In hand trail and Showmanship. She is amazing!! She has won many hi points in these classes so don't give up on your mare she might just not like driving.

I prefer Geldings. I have had an arena accident where I to wS knocked down,ran over and dragged by the lines. I did get hurt but he never did it again .

I like the boys to train better...JMO...Good luck!!


----------



## DJF Miniature Show Horses (Oct 8, 2012)

Alfalfa will make a mini psycho.

That may be your problem. Just reread your post.

Only grass hay....


----------



## wildoak (Oct 8, 2012)

Alfalfa will make a mini psycho?? I've been feeding my mostly very sane minis alfalfa for almost 15 years... there may be some horses, large or small, who wig out on alfalfa but I don't think you can make a blanket statement about all minis anymore than you could about _all_ quarter horses or _all_ arabians. Most people I know feed alfalfa, at least in combination with grass hay.

Jan


----------



## Roxane Martin (Oct 17, 2012)

Knottymare--

I can relate to your story and your conclusion. I have a mare that was trained to drive when she was 9 and had a great moving out walk and trot. It took her about 10 minutes to go mentally from "let me just move my feet" to " oh, now I am listening to you", but I figured she would be great for distance and she did fine in driving classes. BUT, she developed allergies to all sorts of pollens and insects and is under desensitization shot, and this summer, also antihistamines and prednisone to keep her from rubbing herself raw. I couldn't drive her last summer and started back this spring/summer. But I couldn't drive her daily, often only only once a week. She seems to be a bit of an ADHD-sort ("what's that! let me look now!") and high energy. Well, I drove her in an arena as I was concerned (I only have a field to drive in), and after about 40 feet of driving did a major bucking episode. I concentrated on keeping the the head up and her straight to not flip the cart or throw me out--I'm 61 and have my elderly father living with me, so was concerned over a serious accident.

She did stop and with help of lovely ladies who stayed with me, we re-adjusted the harness and ended up driving with her and ended on a calmer note. So what caused it? Maybe a horsefly bite, maybe the drugs she's on for her allergies, maybe just too tense--who knows?!

After discussing with my trainer, who said that the mare was in heat the entire summer she was there for training, and the fact that she probably needs daily work (which just isn't in my schedule), I decided to no longer drive her. I'm bummed for the money I spent for training, for the money for cart and harness, and disappointed that I can't drive her, BUT I don't feel safe with her. I figure that God gave me a "heads up" before that bad wreck that may have been down the road.

I too am looking for a new "job" for her that we can do that she can deal with. I do have a driving gelding that is a "steady Eddie" type that I trust so that's where my driving will be. He doesn't have the great walk that she has, but even when he gets excited (and he did buck in the cart at our spring fun show after being clipped), he comes down quickly and doesn't give of the "vibes" of "not thinking clearly", which my mare does to me.

I totally understand your decision--our health isn't something to be taken lightly, especially when there are other responsibilities as well.

I'm considering having an animal communicator come out to see what they can tell me; I'd like to know if my horses (and cats) like what we're doing or if I can do something to make their lives better.

Good luck--


----------



## MiLo Minis (Oct 18, 2012)

The bottom line is she is your horse and if you are not comfortable driving her but are willing to keep her and find another job you and she can both enjoy you are doing the right thing for you both. I disagree that all horses that have wrecked can not be retrained but a lot depends on what caused the wreck. I have retrained several horses that have wrecked - some are driving beautifully now and two are not. In your case there is a good possibility that it is physical discomfort of some kind caused by the addition of the cart and it is possible she could be retrained if the cause can be discovered but that would be your choice and unless you are gungho to have that done you will never be comfortable with the result and that alone would create a problem. I am glad to hear she hasn't frightened you off driving altogether and wish you the best with any future driving horse you may have.


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 19, 2012)

DJF Miniature Show Horses said:


> Hi Knottymare
> 
> Very sorry you went through 2 accidents with your mare. Its not your fault. I too have a mini mare I spent 2 years training to drive and I am a trainer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. She's up to date on everything but I do have her teeth checked every 6 months. Her appt is on 11/24 so we'll be looking at all kinds of things. Meanwhile, I work on lots of ground stuff with her. I continue to work on that hind end sensitivity - just started blanketing because our rainy season has started and I notice that she is touchy about the leg straps. Makes me go Hmmm



LOL...

Every time I drive the car down the roads I've driven her on it makes me a little sad... we had so much fun. I do hope we can get back out there because she really was enjoying it. Ears forward, happy attitude. Darn!


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 19, 2012)

Roxane Martin said:


> Knottymare--
> 
> I'm considering having an animal communicator come out to see what they can tell me; I'd like to know if my horses (and cats) like what we're doing or if I can do something to make their lives better.
> 
> Good luck--


That's a great idea... I'd love to know what's going on in that head of hers. She continues to willingly hook up with me and we do little romps around the field, her right next to me at liberty. I don't have a ton of time; work full time, husband, farm, 2 other horses, so she gets what she gets. With winter setting in, activities will be limited. We'll see what Spring brings... but every single day, I work on that back end.


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 19, 2012)

MiLo Minis said:


> The bottom line is she is your horse and if you are not comfortable driving her but are willing to keep her and find another job you and she can both enjoy you are doing the right thing for you both. I disagree that all horses that have wrecked can not be retrained but a lot depends on what caused the wreck. I have retrained several horses that have wrecked - some are driving beautifully now and two are not. In your case there is a good possibility that it is physical discomfort of some kind caused by the addition of the cart and it is possible she could be retrained if the cause can be discovered but that would be your choice and unless you are gungho to have that done you will never be comfortable with the result and that alone would create a problem. I am glad to hear she hasn't frightened you off driving altogether and wish you the best with any future driving horse you may have.


Thanks, Lori. We have so much we can do together that I'm not too worried about it. And I WILL get that cart behind her again. I'm in no rush. I have 2 others to work with as well so it will just come in time. I probably won't take her out on the road again but you never know. She LOVED getting out and exploring so we'll see.

Cheers!


----------



## ClickMini (Oct 19, 2012)

No need to go where she or you don't want to go. I love Liberty work, tricks, etc. And now there is Horse Agility! Woohoo! What fun!

http://www.thehorseagilityclub.com/your-club/usa/


----------



## susanne (Oct 19, 2012)

.

There are some amazing videos of horse agility on YouTube.

Thanks for that link, Amy...of course, I'd do it in its lower case form, rather than have to pay to do the upper case proprietary version.


----------



## Knottymare (Oct 19, 2012)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... Horse Agility! How awesome. Now, I think I might be able to do that. My knees are not as bad as they used to be thanks to last year's surgery.

Thanks!


----------



## Roxane Martin (Oct 20, 2012)

Horse Agility?! Seriously?! When I first got minis I was hoping that you could do with minis in hand things like dog agility or the in-hand trail. I don't see much in the US, but now I've got to find those videos and see what's up. Cool!

Roxane


----------



## MiLo Minis (Oct 27, 2012)

I wish I lived closer and could help you out. I've had very good luck retraining horses that have previously had trouble and "shouldn't" be driving.


----------



## happy appy (Oct 27, 2012)

Lori I have one like that now. I'm not sure what happened to her in her previous life but she is afraid in cart now. She is great at Obstacle and that is what I mainly do with her. I want to try and teach her liberty obstacle, if that is a class?? You know, when they work with the horse without a halter and lead rope. She moves out of my space well. Sometimes we play around "dancing" in the ring, It's fun!


----------



## studiowvw (Oct 27, 2012)

H-Appy, Lori is a great trainer!


----------



## happy appy (Oct 27, 2012)

studiowvw said:


> H-Appy, Lori is a great trainer!


I know, I have 2 of her miniatures now! I just picked them up on the way back from the national Drive!


----------



## studiowvw (Oct 27, 2012)

Which did you bring home?


----------



## happy appy (Oct 27, 2012)

I brought home Rosie, who is the mother to one of the Kyte's geldings named (I think) Summy, and Mabes a pinto. I have them posted in an intro thread in the main forum.


----------



## MiLo Minis (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks girls I love what I do!

It really helps if you know what their previous experience has been but quite often simply retraining them can cure the problem. I have found that a lot of horses that are 'trained' to drive quite often have some huge holes in their training and simply taking a step (or two or three) back and starting over can resolve their fears.

I am so excited'to hear about everyone's interest in 'agility' with horses! I am working on becoming accredited in horse agility with the intention of starting an agility circuit here in Ontario. There is an international halter agility club/organization and I would like to follow their format adding in driven agility. I am very excited about it as it is something I really enjoy. And they do have a liberty agility class!


----------

