# Judge accused me of drawing dorsal stripe



## Deb E (Sep 22, 2013)

Marquis showed in her last show. It was our local IMEC club year-end show. Several of us in IMEC had done really well at the Kentucky State Fair a couple weeks before, so I knew we had some good competition for the show. Got shut out in ...the first class....then got a last place...another last place....and so the day went. Last halter class the judge leaned over and said "nice paint job" and kept on walking by. After the class I asked him what he meant by that and he said "the stripe you paint down your mares back ." I could not believe what I was hearing. I asked him if that is why he placed us last all day and he said "you betcha". I proceeded to tell him quite loudly that she was a dun and I didn't do anything to her. He said "sure you don't." Can't believe a judge called me a cheat and a liar! What a horrible way to end Marquis' show career. I have shown Marquis for five years and never had a judge question that her dorsal stripe was real or not. She is registered as a silver dun and have been told she is a dunalino. Has anyone ever had anything like this happen to them. Seems so out there to me.


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## Performancemini (Sep 22, 2013)

Did you receive the show packet where you can critique the show and the judge(s) to send to AMHR? (You have 10 days to turn it in I believe). I would DEFINITELY fill it out and let them know you were unhappy with the judge's statements to you (tactfully of course). If you didn't get a packet, I think I would still send a polite tactful letter to AMHR stating the show, date, place and judge and let them know you where unhappy with his/her statements.


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## AnnaC (Sep 22, 2013)

That is disgusting and totally out of order!! I would get your vet to verify the dorsal stripe, then write to the show organisers sending them the vet's letter, and demand an apology from both them and the judge in question, plus I would insist, at the very least, on receiving all my entry fees back - except for that first class, when the judge had the opportunity to make a comment on why he was 'casting' you out. There was no need to allow you to compete in the rest of the classes before he bothered to give you his 'comment'!

She's a very beautiful mare, and like you, she does not deserve this kind of treatment - how many spectators heard the judge accuse you of painting in that dorsal stripe?? As it was a local show, any overheard remarks could be 'damaging' to your reputation!

I can well undertand how upset you are, I would be fuming too!


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## Minimor (Sep 22, 2013)

Was this a sanctioned show? If so--absolutely fill out the judge evaluation form -- at least AMHR , if it was AMHA I don't know what they have in this regard. Talk to your director and let him/her know what this judge said and find out if there is any way you can file a formal complaint against him. Please also PM me with the judge's name--this isn't a judge that we ever want to hire here. A judge that is too stupid to recognize a real dorsal stripe isn't much of a judge.


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## Magic Marker Minis (Sep 22, 2013)

I'd write a letter... but it would not be tactful... or polite! I have way too many names roiling around in my head to call this judge... none of which can be printed here! I'd be so peeved off!


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## valshingle (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm sorry this happened to you. However, it is refreshing to hear of a judge who will not reward what he thought was a rule violation. Unfortunately for you, he was wrong in this case. I wonder if judges are allowed to touch a horse to see if paint has been applied?


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## oakrunfarm (Sep 22, 2013)

Oh my gosh. That is so wrong. If he was going to accuse you of such a thing, the least he could do is allow you to prove him wrong.

I agree with the others that you should take action and lodge a complaint.

The saddest part to me is how disappointing it would be to end your lovely mare's career on such a note.

So sorry that happened to you.


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##  (Sep 22, 2013)

That's incredible, and at the LEAST you should file a complaint. I'd also submit the vet statement and ask for fees back, as this is totally unfair, especially at the end of successful show career!

So sorry you experienced this.


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## REO (Sep 22, 2013)

WOW



I would have challenged him to wipe it off and prove it. No, it wouldn't have given you better placings, but I for one hate being accused of things I didn't do.


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## Jill (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm sorry! It is, honestly, my favorite horse marking... I'm sure you didn't draw it and your horse is GORGEOUS.


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## little lady (Sep 22, 2013)

As others have stated I would lodge a complaint. A judge like that is not needed! Your mare is stunning!!!


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## Jill (Sep 22, 2013)

PS I currently own one and lost one foaling years back that could pass as color twins to the horse you have pictured. Not sure if they are silver bays or dun palominos, but that is the same color and the same intensity of stripe I have seen in my own horses.


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## Mona (Sep 22, 2013)

That is HORRIBLE! I would MOST DEFINITLY file a complaint with he show giving club!!

As to the comment about being glad there are judges that are not scared to place a horse if they think a rule violation is being made, I totally disagree...they should be SURE the rule is being broken before they pull that. They should KNOW the rules, and KNOW if a rule is being broken or not, and if they don't KNOW, then they certainly should not penalize on a *thought* only. That particular judge very CLEARLY lacks any professionalism if he actually walked past and muttered that crap to the exhibitor!! I would have been FURIOUS and would have gone straight to the show giving committee immediately following the class.


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## Al B (Sep 22, 2013)

Was this an AMHA show or an AMHR show. In any case I would file a formal complaint with that registry's LOC. They would then have to officially investigate. You could also just publish that judge's name. If you can show your horse has a dorsal stripe it could cost them their card.


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## Minimor (Sep 22, 2013)

Google search of the show provides the info that this was an AMHR show AND gives the name of the judge.


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## Marty (Sep 22, 2013)

Wow is this ever sad! Too bad there wasn't a grievance committee right there at the show. This guy was beyond unprofessional and should loose his judges card. I hope you follow through.


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## eagles ring farm (Sep 22, 2013)

wow ...I sure hope you do report him although you can replace the placing's you would have gotten

I do believe they should remove this judges card. Why weren't you given the chance to prove him wrong

after the first class instead of him robbing you of your placing's all day. What a creep to ruin your day

and not even mention his problem , so he thought right away instead of a rude remark late in the show

is your time and $ and trouble worth nothing?

Sorry to rant it just peeved me off to read your story


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## MiniNHF (Sep 23, 2013)

That is just wrong and very very unprofessional of any judge to do that.

I had a judge once in dressage say my QH/TB looked like a football player trying to do dressage and I got the lowest dressage score of the day because of it and every one said he had a good even test for not liking dressage (which he hates doing). Only good thing was I ranked up in points after cross country and stadium to at least place in the top 3 because all of those "dressage" horses that were not good jumpers at all which usually the more difficult levels was around 20 or so.


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## REO (Sep 23, 2013)

I love and agree with Mona's post above! You said what I felt.


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## Mona (Sep 23, 2013)

Minimor, would love to hear who the judge was...please pm me the name. Thanks!


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## Deb E (Sep 23, 2013)

This was just our local club show, non-sanctioned. But the judge was an AMHR carded judge. This in no way is a reflection on the club...just the judge. Many people at the show said how bad they felt about what happened.


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## MiniNHF (Sep 23, 2013)

Probablly was having a bad day and needed some one to pick on so he decided it was poor you; I mean really if the dorsal stripe was real or not what would that have gained you so why do it? Just assinine that he would even make a statement like that, IMO it made him look a jack a#*


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## Performancemini (Sep 23, 2013)

I think I would still report what happened to AMHR. Since he is a carded judge, his actions still reflect on the registry. We have had carded judges at our county fair, and believe me, if they pulled anything so rude and unprofessional, it would be heard about. Even those who do not own registered animals but enjoy showing them at these local and fair shows deserve the same professional courteous treatment as those of us showing through the sanctioned shows.


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## Debby - LB (Sep 23, 2013)

This is SO Wrong! the nerve of him. I hope you file a complaint or whatever you have to do to voice your displeasure. You are certainly due a public apology and a refund. Just this type of thing is how someones reputation can be totally ruined so I hope anyone who heard what he said to you understands it was not true. I would not let him get away with that. I would be livid...gosh this makes me so mad and I wasn't even there lol. I'm so sorry this happened to you.


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## amysue (Sep 24, 2013)

I am still trying to wrap my head around this one. I know that the rules are different from club to club and across the different breed organizations. I have had judges touch my horses before e.g. move his forelock away from his eyes to see his face, run their hand over the topline, I even had a judge at a fair show open my filly's mouth herself and inspect the teeth. I have not shown the rated circuit in some time, so am unfamiliar as to whether or not he could have just touched the stripe to see for him self. As that would have made sense. Regardless, his attitude was unacceptable for one it was a sign of poor sportsmanship. I would expect the judge to lead by example and that was utterly unprofessional. Secondly, I would expect a judge to have the common knowledge about breed characteristic and coloring to be a carded judge at this level. It seems like a rookie mistake to not know what a dorsal stripe looks like or even is! I am so sorry that your show ended like that. Your horse is absolutely gorgeous and in no way looks "panted" what a stupid remark he made.


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## REO (Sep 24, 2013)

Makes me wonder how many other horses he refused to place or placed low because he mentally "accused" the person of painting markings on their horse. If he did it once I'm sure he's done it before and will again. That's not fair and he should be called on it.


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## MyMiniGal (Sep 24, 2013)

Wow...I don't show, but this is horrible. I'm so sorry, this has happened.


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## Pam Crise (Sep 25, 2013)

Googled it. I have a friend who went out and got a nice show shirt for her very first AMHR show. The shirt had glitter on it. A small amount got on her horse - obviously nothing she intended to do. This same judge stopped beside her in her very first class and told her glittering her horse was against the AMHR rules!


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## REO (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm always trying to warn people about not having glitter on their show shirts and I get "poo-pooed" each time.


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## Lewella (Sep 25, 2013)

Glitter is one of those things that most ASPC/AMHR judges have a zero tolerance stance on. Some of the biggest name handers in the business have been dq'd for glitter transfer from their clothes to their horse. Never, ever wear anything with glitter on it if you are showing AMHR!


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## Relic (Sep 25, 2013)

A good dose of hairspray usually helps with glitter not falling of jackets..


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## Field-of-Dreams (Sep 26, 2013)

Pam Crise said:


> Googled it. I have a friend who went out and got a nice show shirt for her very first AMHR show. The shirt had glitter on it. A small amount got on her horse - obviously nothing she intended to do. This same judge stopped beside her in her very first class and told her glittering her horse was against the AMHR rules!


I borrowed a friend's jacket for Centrals last year and all I did was try and brush glitter off my BLACK horse. Never again. Shame, it is a STUNNING jacket!


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## REO (Sep 26, 2013)

Even with spray I've seen a horse nudge the person while waiting for a class and the glitter get all over it's nose.

I've warned about that and had a newbie come on and say it's fine don't worry about it. It can and does happen and is such a shame.

Sequins & beads are the way to go!


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## sfmini (Sep 27, 2013)

I would guess AMHR won't be able to do anything since it wasn't an AMHR carded show, but I would write a letter to the show management, AMHR's Licensed Official Committee, and the judge and treat it as a learning experience. Please keep in mind that minis have colors not found in "big" horses so that stripe might be unfamiliar to him.

We need a large pool of judges, so we don't need to alienate any, so please take this as a teachable moment, even though it cost you. I would suggest getting documentation on that stripe from a vet and keep it with you for the future.


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## Performancemini (Sep 27, 2013)

I looked it up; and believe me; that judge knew his/her colors, etc. I still think I would write the registry. He/she still holds a card and represents the registry and breed.


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## susanne (Sep 28, 2013)

.
Jody, I mean no offense as I know you are a caring person, but I strongly disagree with you on this one.

As mentioned in the original post, this was her mare's last show, so there will be no next time for this horse. I don't know Deb, but I get the strong impression that she is an experienced exhibitor and as such is unlikely to need such an unpleasant "teachable moment." I can understand being suspicious and speaking up, but he should have given her a chance to defend herself and her horse. With such rude, unprofessional and unsportsmanlike behavior, even if AMHR had no judges, this "gentleman" should never be considered for future hire. I realize that I am of absolutely no importance to AMHR, but now that I have seen this judge's name, I will remember and skip any show where he is officiating. I imagine many here will do the same.


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## Minimor (Sep 28, 2013)

I see no teachable moment in this experience--not much of a learning experience there!--other than learning that this particular judge isn't worth showing under. Yes we need a large pool of judges but that pool does not need to include a judge with a bad attitude...there are a few judges that we would be better off without. Shows do better to hire good judges, because a bad judge does make people stay away.


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## MindyLee (Sep 28, 2013)

Its sucks that a judge did this and unfortently you did poorly at the show because of an opinion... I kinda had this happen too but diff situation however same. I took a skinny horse to a AMHR show 3 yrs ago. Got a bad rep for it... This was my fault truely... BUT it didnt stop me from showing even tho I was talked about from everyone including the judges. Im my case it was my fault... I messed up then, this yr I took reserve champion with that same horse. BUT what Im trying to say is it happened, ya cant fix it, keep your chin up, and keep enjoying your horse and showing! The next judge is different. Folks forget what they hear... and who cares what anyone said!

Im not sure if it was your last show ever or for the yr, but altho folks do/say hurtfull things...forget it and you keep having fun with your baby(s)!

Shes very beautiful and good luck in the future! It dose go away!


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## tagalong (Sep 28, 2013)

> Please keep in mind that minis have colors not found in "big" horses so that stripe might be unfamiliar to him.


Ummm.... there are NO colours in minis that cannot also be found in big horses. The mare in question appears to be a silver dun or silver bay dun. You can find those in Icelandic horses and I am sure there are other examples as well. Any judge ignorant enough of genetics to think that such a dorsal stripe would be painted on - does not _deserve_ his card.



> We need a large pool of judges, so we don't need to alienate any


What benefit is he as a judge to AMHR? Apparently he has said other odd things as well. Yes, he should be reported! I do not understand why such things shuld be quietly swept under the rug.

I can think of another AMHR judge/trainer who lectured an exhibitor that her multi-supreme champion mare was sickle-hocked and had a ewe neck (not) and then went on and placed the mare first anyway. That same judge/trainer also badmouthed other trainers and one of their main clients at that same show. IMO this kind of unprofessional behavior should not be tolerated. A judge is representing AMHR or AMHA or ASPC - and why would any of those organizations wish to be represented that way?


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## Margo_C-T (Sep 29, 2013)

I agree completely with Suzanne; hard to fathom why anyone would defend such boorishness on any basis...and I DID show, a good bit and successfully. NO organization ultimately benefits from the 'services' of such an unprofessional individual, and such actions should NOT be tolerated...weed them out and keep the KNOWLEDGEABLE, FAIR, IMPARTIAL, genuine, professionals!!


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## shorthorsemom (Sep 29, 2013)

I am so sad you experienced this and it is such a shame that your mares last show wasn't what you had hoped for. That judge was out of line with his sarcastic comment. very sad.

I do think that there are great judges and not so great judges wherever you go. I do think it is difficult for some clubs to get great judges all the time. I know in dog showing there are times when I have had a great judge and times when I had a horrible judge that you say to yourself... "NEVER show under that judge again" . I think word of mouth works great to communicate about certain judges and I would at the least mention to the folks that arranged the show what happened.

I do know that as I have shown all the years, for all the yucky judges I have gotten, I have gotten just as many awesome judges and on occasion gotten a judge that we used to say "gave me a gift", one that ignored enough boo boos of a 10 year old dog to allow him to get his final leg at a speciality. I remember being hugged by my trainer and she says... Its a gift, enjoy it when I was stunned that I qualified. Did I write to my club and tell them I thought my dog should have lost 10 more points for lagging? Of course not.

Many judges would have never qualified my dog that day. My dog was the only dog at the speciality that day that did not do a major disqualifying error. We got high in trial because all the other dogs broke the long sit or down. I once got a qualifying score after a judge told me I NQed in the ring. I didn't think I deserved the NQ according to the rules but the judge said "Im not qualifying you" because I hurried my dog out of the ring after being excused because i could tell he was going to eliminate. He did not eliminate, but the judge was nasty to me when I checked my lead and ran out of the ring with my dog. Later, when i did qualify for what I thought was leg two on that dog, I received my title in the mail a few weeks later and realized that judge had decided to score my dog afterall. I had no green ribbon, no recognition at the show, but somehow qualified after I left the show grounds....

I also remember a judge that scored a friends dog 4th place out of three dogs because he said no dog in the ring deserved first place. He took that first place ribbon off the table. I could go on and on, but I think you get what I am saying... You got a lousy deal, you should tell somebody, but for your sadness or anger it would be good to remember times when you might have gotten a decent deal from a lenient judge that thought you deserved it. I know I could not ever be a judge. I do know there is plenty of cheating that might have soured a good judge into a stinky judge. I remember being at a handling class for a min pin and there was a lady handling a lovely black standard poodle. The coat shined and the dog was awesome and I complimented her on the dogs outstanding color. She then told me that her dog was cream colored but she thought the judges prefered black so she did a dye job on her dog. sheesh. I have seen many folks altering the color of their dogs with pencils and dye and powder etc. It happens. hugs to you, your mare is lovely, I love dorsal stripes..

PS, I know these are dog stories not horse stories, I have never been good enough or had enough time for horse showing. I tip my hat to all of you brave enough and experienced enough to bring us all those lovely show horses to admire and promote miniature horses as much more than a lawn ornament, as a competitive and awesome little horse that can do just as much if not more than many folks give them credit for. stay strong, you have made a great point and lesson here for all of us that enjoy this forum and making folks aware is really a great lesson to all. You showed great sportsmanship and honored your mare with your posting. cheers to you.


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## shalakominiatureshowhorses (Sep 29, 2013)

Wow, I did not even know about the glitter rule!! Almost all of my show shirts I had last year had glitter on them, and the horses would get glitter ALL OVER THEM. I had to just sit there and pick off blue glitter off their bodies before each class, it was awful. I've never been called out on it before though, I guess there wasn't as much glitter on them for the judges to notice. Oh well, I grew out of those show jackets anyway and went to a glitter-free wardrobe


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## HGFarm (Oct 1, 2013)

UNBELIEVABLE!!! If nothing is done, the judge will continue with this unprofessional manner to other people and horses at other shows. I would write a letter to AMHR- do they have a judge's committee or someone who over sees judges? I would also send a COPY of your letter to AMHR to the judge. I would be professional, as obviously he WASNT, and state facts- maybe include a few pics of the mare over the years- showing her DUN dorsal stripe.

I really feel bad for you and your mare- what an absolutely horrible day and experience. Your mare is lovely. It wasnt the fault of who ever sponsored the show- how would they know? But I would also perhaps send them a copy of your letter to AMHR as well, so they will not hire this guy back in the future.

For someone who supposedly knows colors, I am appalled that this judge thought that. Does he not know what dun characteristics are? Wow.... this is just shocking to me.

Edited to add: Oh and thanks about the glitter issue! I would never have even thought of that and have a couple of shirts with glitter! Yikes, I will watch that in the future!


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##  (Oct 1, 2013)

I really hope you will take the advice given here and write to AMHR, and with pictures of your mare's dorsal stripe over several years is a great idea!

This really should be reported, as that type of bad behavior will affect others in the future, irregardless that nothing can change for you and your placings this time. But it is something that is not correct, and should not be allowed to happen again in the future. And I agree, copies of letters to all, so this judge is not chosen again, and realizes that his inappropriate behavior is not being swept under the rug -- he is being "called" on his comments. Maybe he will learn, or maybe not, but you may save someone in the future from the same unfair fate.

Many people here show, and it would be horrid to think that they might run into the same unfair person and it could have been fixed with just a short letter.

Best of luck to you in the future, and we all know how unfair this was -- especially to a MOST beautiful mare!


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## LaVern (Oct 1, 2013)

Jeepers - What dork - Who does he think he is?


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 2, 2013)

Well, he thinks he is a Judge, and some Judges think they are god!!

I would write to the AMHR and just plainly state your case, you do not need to make it a real complaint, just state the facts as they are and let them decide what they are going to do about it. If they are going to do nothing, perhaps someone would like to start keeping a "book" on this person? There are rules in place to stop this sort of thing happening, you should make use of them.


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## Karen S (Oct 2, 2013)

Any and all complaints are to be sent to Marvin McCabe who is the head of the judges. He and the board of governor's will review your letter and take action on this judge. Marvin lives in Ohio and is listed in the Journal under judges since

he too is also a judge.

Karen


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## HGFarm (Oct 3, 2013)

You know, even if he thought it was a fake stripe, what a rude way to handle the situation, and why didnt he handle it in a professional manner according to the rule book?


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## horsenut50 (Oct 4, 2013)

I know I'd be writing a letter pronto. This is totally unprofessional and I sure would not want to show under this judge. Your mare is gorgeous and should not have been judged so unfairly. What a jerk.


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## PrestigeMiniHorses (Oct 12, 2013)

Wow this is insane! No way would I let someone get out with that one. Not OK. Lodge a complaint!!


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## misty'smom (Oct 12, 2013)

I am so sorry this happened to you!!!! I am new to the minis and have never even been to a big show but it just sounds so unprofessional of a judge at such an important show to make a remark in that manner not to mention his rudeness!!!! He should not make an accusation to a contestant without some source of truth or evidence!!!! At the least you should have been given the chance to prove him wrong but in a private manner!! To me it is shocking and I think you do need to follow up with some sort of correspondence to the AMHR. After all he represents the AMHR and they probably would want to know of his unprofessional conduct. If you let it go he probably will do the same type of thing to others and it kind of ruins the integrity of the AMHR for everyone. Even if it doesn't change anything for you at least you made them aware of your experience with that judge and it will be on record in case anything happens in the future! So sorry again, I can't imagine your disappointment and disbelief for you and your horse!!


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## Tab (Oct 13, 2013)

This turns my stomach. So sorry for you, she is an adorable mare. Part of the reason I haven't shown mine are memories of growing up around dog shows. So many aspects are a big turn off. Especially bad judges and poor sportsmanship. Yours was a very assuming judge, and you know what is said about assuming. (No offense to donkeys.) So sad about your terrible experience! You have to get her in one more show just to end on a good note!


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