# Mini Size Hackamore!



## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 14, 2008)

so i have found some rubbs on my donkey's noses from there rope halters. And my mom want's me to stop using the halters. So i need to find Mini size hackamore (NOT! bosels) ASAP! because it will put me behind in training!, so any help would be great!


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## Alex (Oct 14, 2008)

I seriously have never seen a miniature sized hackamore. Ozark Mountain sell bosals, but you dont want a bosal.

Well, good luck!


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## Leeana (Oct 14, 2008)

The rope halter is leaving marks on the nose? What kind of training are you doing exactly? Just ground work or ?

Dont leave the halters on all the time..only time my horses wear halters is when they are tied or im leading them some place, i never leave a halter on. Second, i dispise rope halters..cannot stand them. Maybe a regular halter that is wider on the noseband will help. I just dont see the need for a Hackamore or anything like that...


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 14, 2008)

If you're going to insist on driving bitless, at least go buy a real bitless bridle.



I know a mini person who has one with blinkers made by Dr. Cook and the Nurtural Bitless site specifically offers mini bridles, driving bridles, and mini driving bridles.





Leia


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 14, 2008)

Well, It's just basic ground work, But sometimes they need a little reinforcement to turn. I'm sure i have the halter adjusted right. And i don't leave the rope halters on all the time, They have break away halters that we leave on, and they have padded nose bands. I was looking at the Dr.Cook's but there driving bridle for a mini is over 100 dollors, and i don't want to spend that on a donkey i'm not hitching. there is always the nylon one that they have that is a small, but i don't know if the "small" will fit the girls. The equine affairs i coming up and last year they had a rep, so they probally could help me, But i would kind of like something sooner. I was thinking an Indian Hackamore, but i can't find any of them in pony size, i guess i will have to learn how to make one.


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## Alex (Oct 14, 2008)

Why are you ground driving but not planning to hitch? Didnt you say you were driving double?

Why not take the time it takes to get a horse bit ready and try new bits?

Man, Im confused.


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## crponies (Oct 15, 2008)

This place has several available: Allen's Pony Express


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 15, 2008)

crponies, Thanks alot that is exactly what i wanted! I googled but couldn't find any, i must not have looked hard enough



> Why are you ground driving but not planning to hitch?


Ok, it's good exersise for the donkeys. The one i am planing to hitch adventually is beeing worked in a regular snaffle bridle.



> Didnt you say you were driving double


Yes i did. I am doing a progect for school and i had to video tape the donkeys, so i got a video of us ground driving Aura. I watched the videos about 10 times, then went out and worked her ground driving. and when i really pay attention to her, she isn't enjoying herself. Where when i do halter stuff with her like showmanship, coon jumping. She likes it much better and listens much better. And after reading what evreyone had to say (on another topic) i really relized that they aren't matched and i don't want to drive them as a team, and i don't want to make Aura do someting she dosn't like.



> Why not take the time it takes to get a horse bit ready and try new bits?


Because, i strongly belive that any horse shold be able to be worked in a snaffle. Also, there are more than 100 behavioral signsof fear and pain induced by bits. Bits are the commmon cause of about 40 duseases and manny acceidents. (taken from Dressage today,Oct 2008, page 18, Writen by Robert Cook, FRCVS, PhD)


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 15, 2008)

Sorry, no.

A snaffle is one half of a double bridle, and, although it is now routinely used on it's own it can be an evil bit in the wrong hands (ie most Pony Club kids I have ever seen...in the UK Pony Club kids are encouraged to use a snaffle with a running martingale and a usually incorrectly adjusted drop noseband- as I said, evil!!)

I have had many many horses that did not go in a snaffle, and would never go in a snaffle- mainly because I would never train a horse in a snaffle!!!

I always started baby horses bitless then moved onto a pelham, with two reins.

The kids rode routinely in double bridles, and knew how to use them correctly, and they all had well trained, well behaved horses, the bottom rein was their "communication cord" to be used in emergencies, I would rather _not_ have my child's life depend on whether or not they can stop their horse in a snaffle bit !!

If you are only ground driving use a plain nylon halter or , as I always did, a drop noseband with the reins attached to the sides....works as well as any expensive "bitless" and far far better than the "spanner " sided "hackamore".

So, no, I have to very strongly disagree about all horses should go in a snaffle.


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## Alex (Oct 15, 2008)

Huh? You say that all horses should have a snaffle but refuse to use one on your own donkey and explain why you think bits are bad.

Bits are only as harsh as you hands make them(some exceptions) and Janes right- snaffles arent for every horse.

Anyways, instead of debating, good luch with all your training.


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 15, 2008)

Alex said:


> Huh? You say that all horses should have a snaffle but refuse to use one on your own donkey and explain why you think bits are bad.


Ok in my hands, Snaffles are the softest bits, all horses should be rode in one, I also like the french link snaffles. I don't use them with my donkeys, because there is no need to with Aura, Why use something and inflict pain on a horse (or a donkey in this situation) (because the bet sits on nurves) when she would do fine with just something over her nose. and little tuggs do the same.



> Bits are only as harsh as you hands make them(some exceptions) and Janes right- snaffles arent for every horse.


This is vary true, But think about this, ok let's pretened your riding (or driving) a horse and horse 1 has a snaffle and horse 2 has a, western crub bit. Now if you put the same ammout of pressure on horse 1. and horse 2. horse 2's bit is harsher, because of the curb action.


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 15, 2008)

No.

A snaffle raises the head, a curb lowers the head.

So, with the same amount of pressure a snaffle would bring the head up over the line of the bit and drop it back on the bars of the mouth.

A curb would drop the head down, but keep it on the bit.

I would normally drive a Mini in a full cheek French link ....yes, ...snaffle!!

But this has a plate in the middle and is triple jointed, not just a nutcracker.

Some horse go really well in a plain jointed snaffle, but they are normally driven or ridden by people who know what they are doing, and can keep the horse up in contact with the bit.

In the same hands a horse in a curb bit with a really high port still would not be misused.


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 15, 2008)

> Some horse go really well in a plain jointed snaffle, but they are normally driven or ridden by people who know what they are doing, and can keep the horse up in contact with the bit. [/qoute]
> I'm Sorry, But Snaffles are not only for Experienced people, Dressage must be rode in a snaffle, up until a certain point. Manny huntseat horses are broke to ride in a snaffle, and then switched to a kimberwick, and western horses are broke to ride in a snaffle. I'm sorry, i'm a dressage person, and horses should be broke to drive and ride in a jointed snaffle, or a french link, and should be rode in one.


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## Alex (Oct 15, 2008)

IMO Every person who puts a bit in a horses mouth needs to know what they are doing. I know exactlly what Im doing when it comes to driving, yet having only trained 2 horses, im not as experienced. So I cant use snaffles?

I absolutly disagree when you say all horses should have a snaffle. Snaffles DONT work for all horses. Theres a reason theres 100's of bits.

Most minis have shallow palates- how do you think a jointed mouthpiece would feel?

Thats why theres a bit for every horse!


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## Ladsmom (Oct 15, 2008)

I bought an Indian Bosal off of ebay. I am planning on using it to train my mini to drive. It seems to me a much better way to train. I have not really started yet, but I really like the idea. I feel if you don't have to use a bit, you shouldn't, especially if you are just going to drive around for fun.


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 15, 2008)

Ladsmom said:


> I bought an Indian Bosal off of ebay. I am planning on using it to train my mini to drive.* It seems to me a much better way to train.* I have not really started yet, but I really like the idea. I feel if you don't have to use a bit, you shouldn't, especially if you are just going to drive around for fun.


It dose, I don't see puting a bit in there mouth if they can ride/drive fine safely, they why not? I can't imagine that that they like having a pice of metal in there mouth.


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 15, 2008)

Alex said:


> IMO Every person who puts a bit in a horses mouth needs to know what they are doing. I know exactlly what Im doing when it comes to driving, yet having only trained 2 horses, im not as experienced. So I cant use snaffles?I absolutly disagree when you say all horses should have a snaffle. Snaffles DONT work for all horses. Theres a reason theres 100's of bits.
> 
> Most minis have shallow palates- how do you think a jointed mouthpiece would feel?
> 
> Thats why theres a bit for every horse!


not to sound like a smart butt or anything, but if minis have shallow palates, why have a magority of the bits i have seen are a single jointed mouth pice?


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## Alex (Oct 15, 2008)

Let me rephrase- some not most. Its particular to the horse and if they will tolerate it.Also it is my opinion that some horse owners dont even know that thats the issue.

I still dont understand as to why you say all horses should be rode in snaffle bits but you say that using a hackamore is the best and bits are inhumane. Im sorry I dont get it.

Hackamores can be great traing tools, but so can bits. I just could not use a hackamore while driving.


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 15, 2008)

Alex said:


> Let me rephrase- some not most. Its particular to the horse and if they will tolerate it.
> I still dont understand as to why you say all horses should be rode in snaffle bits but you say that using a hackamore is the best and bits are inhumane. Im sorry I dont get it.


It really depends on the horse/donkey. Leia could NOT be drove in a hackamore, i can't imagine that. But Aura could, because of her easy going, personality, and i put her in a bunch of diffrent, stressfull situations, and she handles them really well. We have big tractor trailer trucks dive by while we are working and it dosn't phase her. But leia would be like



. So you need a little more bit for control.


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Oct 15, 2008)

Where did i say it was inhumane, because if i did, i would like to go back and edit it. Sometimes you need a little extra reinfocement, but if you can do fine in a hackamore, there is no reason to be using a bit.


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## bingo (Oct 15, 2008)

Celtic Hill Farm said:


> Alex said:
> 
> 
> > Huh? You say that all horses should have a snaffle but refuse to use one on your own donkey and explain why you think bits are bad.
> ...


Well actually I would think it would be less painful then using a halter that takes more then little tuggs since it is leaving marks.


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## Alex (Oct 16, 2008)

"There are more than 100 behavioral signs of fear and pain induced by bits. Bits are the common cause of about 4O common diseases and many accidents" "Why use something to inflict pain on a horse (or donkey in this situation)(because the bit lays on nerves)

I guess its just a difference in opinion...


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 16, 2008)

It's one of the "NH" ideas, and I have seen SO much harm done by NH in inexperienced hands it is just not true, but there you go.......

A snaffle is not a gentle bit.

It was never devised to be a gentle bit and dressage horses, if they are any good, go through that stage very quickly.

I would never school a horse in one half of a double bridle...why would I do that???

I was happy to ride one of my Arabs in a noseband (just a drop with the reins attached, no pulleys or gimmicks) but she seemed to have an aversion to a bit, which took forever to overcome, so an interim methods was needed.

She did eventually accept a bar snaffle, and this is the bit I prefer if I have to use a snaffle for any reason.

I also take my driving horse right up to being put in the cart, in just a halter, and bit them separately.

You would not be allowed to drive in the ring without a bit, I am pretty sure.

We did use a bar snaffle on One Day Events with the Pony Club but in the end found it easier to just accept the penalties for using a double for the dressage, as a double is what is, basically, correct for dressage, and what got the bast results.

It is very difficult to emulate the work of a curb bit with a snaffle, and totally pointless as that is exactly why the curb was invented...because it was needed.

Anyway, a bit does not work on pain, and it does not work, as the Dr Cook and the Bosal do, on pressure points...wrongly adjust those and you really could cause pain, a badly adjusted bit just causes annoyance!!

My advice to you is to get the animal used to a bit, even if you decide to work it without one, you never know what life will bring, and they may not be with you for all their lives.


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