# French loop girth?



## mydaddysjag (Jul 4, 2011)

I was considering converting my harness into a french loop girth because I think it would make it easier for me to harness my horse by myself. Can anyone tell me any reasons why I shouldn't switch it from wrap straps to the french loop?


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 4, 2011)

You mean French tugs? The bellyband (although different from a wrap strap assembly) is the same for French tugs or open tugs, the real difference is in the tug loops not the girth. I have Ozark's version of French tugs and have seen the ones by Lutke and neither one can be correctly termed "French tugs" as they don't have a leather-covered metal cradle on the bottom as they should. Still, they work okay and are certainly much faster to hitch up.

Advantages are that you don't have to do all that complicated, time-consuming wrapping. It looks cleaner and less cluttered. Disadvantages are that it will not grip the shaft as tightly as a wrap so you MUST have shaft stops installed on your cart to be safe. If done up really tightly it transfers all the motion of the shafts to your horse just as wrap straps do. Without the metal cradle on the underside of the French tug the weight of the shaft can sometimes cause the loop to pull through, dropping the shaft on the ground, which is both unsafe and a real pain. Mine don't do that but the used Lutke I saw did and I'm not sure how you would have made that work. I recommended the person contact Lutke and have them send a new one as it was too short to buckle anyway and perhaps a newer one would have more friction with the keepers and stay in place until it could be buckled.

Leia


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## mydaddysjag (Jul 4, 2011)

Yep, french tugs. Thats what I thought they were called, but when I was looking them up online at mini vendors, they were calling the french loop girth conversions. My cart is a metal EE, so if I install shaft stops it should be safe to change over to the french tugs?


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## CZP1 (Jul 5, 2011)

I have the shaft stops on my metal EE cart and there is little screw to keep the tug from sliding out of the stop. I have the Driving Essentials Harness and it comes with the French Tugs

http://www.drivingessentials.com/pop%20up%20pages/Harness_Section/basic_saddle.php

It is alot easier to have the tugs other than the wrap straps especially if you are harnessing up by yourself. I have had the tugs break too in a run-away situation, I think they are safer to have IMO than the wrap strap. They also free up the shaft a little more than having them not bounce at all with wrap straps. Smoother ride for horse and whip. Hope that helps.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 5, 2011)

Mini vendors are not known for using correct harness terms.




They aren't even making correct French tugs!



You will need to buy a new girth since you currently have wrap straps and it sounds like they're simply including the tugs themselves along with the girth as a one-piece conversion, which is fine.

Yes, if you have tug stops installed on your EE you can safely switch to French Tugs assuming they will constrict down far enough on the narrow metal shafts. They are usually built to go around much thicker wooden shafts so you might need to check on that. The important part is to make sure the tug stops cannot possibly slip through the tug loop no matter what happens. That means they either need to tighten down snugly on the shaft or you need to make sure you have a LARGE tug stop!







CZP1 said:


> I have the shaft stops on my metal EE cart and there is little screw to keep the tug from sliding out of the stop. I have the Driving Essentials Harness and it comes with the French Tugs
> http://www.drivingessentials.com/pop%20up%20pages/Harness_Section/basic_saddle.php


With respect, the harness you have pictured does not have French tugs. Those are open tugs, the kind usually used for carriage harness and you MUST have breeching with that sort of harness because the shafts simply float loose within the tugs. French tugs are supposed to constrict down around the shaft as you tighten the overgirth and so can reasonably be used with tug stops and no breeching as they "grip" the shaft.

I'm not sure what you mean about a screw keeping the tugs from sliding out of the tug stop. The tug stop is just a peg on the shaft, either below the shaft or sticking out to the side, that keeps the shaft from being able to slide forward through the tug. The tug should never be "in" it, just in front of it.





Leia


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## tifflunn (Jul 5, 2011)

I have been curious about the fench tugs myself does anyone have an up close picture of one? Or one being used on a harness?

Thanks


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## Sandee (Jul 5, 2011)

tifflunn said:


> I have been curious about the fench tugs myself does anyone have an up close picture of one? Or one being used on a harness?
> 
> Thanks


This is a picture of the harness one dealer is selling and is referred to as French tug but it's only leather.


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## klein (Jul 5, 2011)

Figure 4 – This is a French tug, in the open and closed positions.
​


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 5, 2011)

Sandee said:


> This is a picture of the harness one dealer is selling and is referred to as French tug but it's only leather.





klein said:


> Figure 4 – This is a French tug, in the open and closed positions.
> ​












Thank you ladies! The one Klein pictured is a correct French tug. The one Sandee pictured is the one I have, and what you can't see is that the leather that makes the loop continues through those keepers and down to the girth in one long piece so that when you buckle the overgirth it tightens the shaft loop down.

Leia


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## tifflunn (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks for the pictures


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## mydaddysjag (Jul 7, 2011)

http://starlakefarm.com/harnessaccess.html

Is the "French Loop Girth conversion" all I need (and shaft stops of course)


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 8, 2011)

Yes, that appears to be all you'd need.





Leia


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## Margo_C-T (Jul 8, 2011)

FWIW...the Lutke show harness I had was equipped with TILBURY tugs; that is what Portia told me to order. These operate pretty much as a French tug, because they definitely DO snug down around the shaft, but do not have the metal lining nor the 'hinge' of the French tug as pictured in this thread by Klein. I used this harness for all my AMHA showing for all the years I had it, used both types of Jerald show carts during those years, never had tug stops on either one of them, and never had any issue( and I am not a lightweight driver!). The Tilburys were of a more flexible leather than the ones pictured in this thread; they would pull down QUITE snugly around the leather-wrapped portion of the Jerald shafts--so much so that I soon put black electrical tape over the glove-soft leather shaft wraps to protect them from tearing due to the Tilbury tugs.

I have to add that I don't know that I would use any sort of 'snug-down' tug loops,if without breeching, with an EE metal cart...seems to me that it's likely you'd be asking the horse to pull the whole rig off his back, which could itself cause discomfort for the horse, if not outright pain. I cannot see the video---it never loaded w/ my slow dial-up---so haven't actually seen how the horse was acting re: the bit, but I do want to ask...is that some sort of 'draw rein' arrangement in the pic of you driving at the trainers? I seem to be seeing some sort of 'doubled-back' rein set up, but hard to tell exactly what it actually is...? In any case, I wouldn't use a twisted wire mouthpiece, either...perhaps you could look at a decent French link w/ 'bean' center joint? I know Iowa Valley Carriage has a nice selection of decent bits, at reasonable prices, too. I got a Butterfly w/ such a mouthpiece for my green B sized gelding; I use it on the top ring, so it has minimal leverage action, and the horse is comfortable and relaxed in it, even though the previous owner said he 'wouldn't go in' anything but the clunky, FIVE INCH! liverpool she sent with him!

Finally...I'm afraid 'high-powered'breed ring driving horses fairly frequently can present 'issues' for novice drivers. IMO, such horses often are 'finessed', to use a relatively polite term,through their breed ring classes, but don't really have the 'depth' of training to be suitable/adaptable for someone just starting to drive and/or wishing to simply drive for their own pleasure.My suggestion would be to get him out of that twisted wire bit, read up on and build yourself a rein board to practice your rein handling with, let him wear the new bit in his stall(with you nearby, of course)to become accustomed to it, then very slowly and quietly introduce him to pulling you and the cart while wearing it...keeping it at a walk, then a quiet trot, for awhile. Both you and he are supposed to ENJOY this partnership, not be stressed by it!

Good luck!

Margo


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## disneyhorse (Jul 9, 2011)

I'm a fan of wrap straps, myself. But the French or open tugs look much nicer. But I don't have trouble with wrap straps, even when harnessing myself. I like to be able to adjust them easily.

Andrea


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## CZP1 (Jul 10, 2011)

I love my open tugs



(I am lazy) not french tugs!


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## mydaddysjag (Jul 10, 2011)

Can you tell me the difference? I need to get whatever is easiest for me to do when harnessing by myself


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## LazyRanch (Jul 10, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Thank you ladies! The one Klein pictured is a correct French tug. The one Sandee pictured is the one I have, and what you can't see is that the leather that makes the loop continues through those keepers and down to the girth in one long piece so that when you buckle the overgirth it tightens the shaft loop down.
> 
> Leia


Leia,I looked at the French tug a while back, and finally decided on the quick release. In case I wreck in a hazard. I am driving my mom's horse in pleasure classes and had thought to replace her wrap straps with quick release as well. Are the quick release acceptable in pleasure classes? I am not going to big shows - and honestly don't see myself going to any once he starts combined driving, but don't want to hinder him on a point of tack while we are there.


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## RhineStone (Jul 11, 2011)

LazyRanch said:


> Are the quick release acceptable in pleasure classes?


Well, they aren't against the rules, but not overly traditional. All else being equal, especially the performance of the horse, they might not do you any favors, but that just means you have to drive better!



If you have the best horse in the arena, they won't hurt you at all.

Myrna


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## Sandee (Jul 11, 2011)

mydaddysjag said:


> Can you tell me the difference? I need to get whatever is easiest for me to do when harnessing by myself


The French or Tillbury and the Wrap straps are equally easy, IMO, after you get used to harnessing. However, if you want to be VERY quick as for a timed event like Versatility (the class where you drive, strip off the cart and show at halter then jump), again IMO, the wrap straps take longer to remove.


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## RhineStone (Jul 11, 2011)

Sandee said:


> the wrap straps take longer to remove.


Especially in an emergency/wreck. Had to fuss with them in a wreck this spring with someone else's horse that flipped over near me. What I wouldn't have given for open tugs and a breeching where all we would have had to do was undo the backstrap buckle and slide off the cart. But no...we had to undo the breeching buckle and the wrap straps, and since we couldn't reach the wrap strap on the side the horse was laying, we had to undo the girth and try to keep the mini from thrashing in the mean time. It wasn't pretty.



It took WAAAAY longer than it could have.

Myrna

Oops, no, I just remembered we COULDN'T undo the backstrap buckle because it was one of those icky Conway buckles, so we had to get near the mini's legs and undo at least one breeching strap buckle. I like either regular buckles on the backstrap, a small snap shackle or a jaw lock snap, but I HATE Conway buckles.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 12, 2011)

mydaddysjag said:


> Can you tell me the difference? I need to get whatever is easiest for me to do when harnessing by myself


Open tugs are for carriage harness with breeching ONLY. They are definitely the fastest and most comfortable for the horse but they CANNOT (repeat: *CANNOT*) be safely used without breeching. The shaft floats completely free in the tug with the traces pulling the cart forward and the breeching holding it back. Without the breeching the cart would run right up on the horse and since the loops do not constrict down, a shaft stop would probably float right on through with the rest of the shaft.

Honestly, if you're having that much trouble harnessing by yourself have you taught your horse to stand without a header?








LazyRanch said:


> Leia,I looked at the French tug a while back, and finally decided on the quick release. In case I wreck in a hazard.


I'm not sure how much good they'd do you in an emergency. They are meant for closed-loop marathon shafts and other than that are not usually undone. You'd still have to loosen one side of the overgirth to relieve pressure before you could open the quick releases and by then you might as well have simply rolled the cart back like you would have with normal tugs. Quick release _traces_ are a good thing for emergencies. Quick release _tugs_ are really only intended for allowing easy and safe harnessing and unharnessing of marathon shafts.



RhineStone said:


> Oops, no, I just remembered we COULDN'T undo the backstrap buckle because it was one of those icky Conway buckles, so we had to get near the mini's legs and undo at least one breeching strap buckle. I like either regular buckles on the backstrap, a small snap shackle or a jaw lock snap, but I HATE Conway buckles.


Boooo, Conways!! Conway buckles are the one thing I won't tolerate in a harness no matter how cheap. Yuck! Unsafe, inconvenient, nasty little boogers.

Leia


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## brasstackminis (Jul 15, 2011)

I know I am sort of hijacking the thread, but I was wondering where you can get those good quality snaps that are safe and durable. The only ones I have seen are too big! I was told I needed to add a quick release snap to the breeching, but I am having trouble finding one that won't look rediculously huge!





Karen


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## disneyhorse (Jul 15, 2011)

Oh I agree, Myrna... Conway buckles and Chicago screws are the bane of my existence! I HATE them!!!

Andrea


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