# Has anyone seen this...



## Sue_C. (Jul 19, 2010)

Sorry, but for some reason the link to u-tube will NOT WORK... To find it, just Google it, and you will see what I am talking about.

I am shocked that it is even being considered. when I first heard of it I thought it was a very sick "joke".

The word that comes to mind..............TRAVESTY...


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## miniwhinny (Jul 20, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> Sorry, but for some reason the link to u-tube will NOT WORK... To find it, just Google it, and you will see what I am talking about.
> 
> I am shocked that it is even being considered. when I first heard of it I thought it was a very sick "joke".
> 
> The word that comes to mind..............TRAVESTY...


WOW ! Have you ever heard of the word *BIGOT*





_Thousands of innocent lives were lost on September 11, 2001, and our hearts and prayers go out to their families and loved ones. For several hundred of the victims of 9/11, grief and sorrow has been compounded by constant suspicion, bias, hatred, and attacks on the faith they hold dear._

_ _

_Imagine being the family of Salman Hamdani. The 23-year-old New York City police cadet was a part-time ambulance driver, incoming medical student, and devout Muslim. When he disappeared on September 11, law enforcement officials came to his family, seeking him for questioning in relation to the terrorist attacks. They allegedly believed he was somehow involved. His whereabouts were undetermined for over six months, until his remains were finally identified. He was found near the North Tower, with his EMT medical bag beside him, presumably doing everything he could to help those in need. His family could finally rest, knowing that he died the hero they always knew him to be._

_ _

_Or imagine being Baraheen Ashrafi, nine months pregnant with her second child. Her husband, Mohammad Chowdhury, was a waiter at Windows of the World restaurant, on the top floors of Tower One. The morning of September 11, they prayed salaat-l-fajr (the pre-dawn prayer) together, and he went off to work. She never saw him again. Their son, Farqad, was born 48 hours after the attacks -- one of the first 9/11 orphans to be born. In an interview with CTV Canada, she relates that in the months to follow, she mourned for her husband and endured the hostility of some ignorant people around her. "When they saw me ... I'm wearing a scarf. There is a hate look."_

_ _

_Or consider Rahma Salie, a passenger on American Airlines #11 that crashed into the North Tower. Rahma, a Muslim of Sri Lankan origin, was traveling with her husband Michael (a convert to Islam) to attend a friend's wedding in California. Rahma was 7 months pregnant with their first child. According to the Independent UK (October 11, 2001), Rahma's name was initially put on an FBI watch list, because her "Muslim-sounding" name was on the passenger manifest, and her travel patterns were similar to those of the hijackers (she was a computer consultant living in Boston). Although her name was eventually removed from the list, several of her family members were barred from taking flights to her memorial service. Her mother, Haleema, said, "I would like everyone to know that she was a Muslim, she is a Muslim and we are victims too, of this tragic incident.”_


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## Sonya (Jul 20, 2010)

I didn't youtube it but I heard about it acouple months ago. Big debate about freedom of religon...I say hogwash, sometimes you just have to draw the line. It should not be built there IMO end of story. I think it's a stab in the heart to everyone who has lost someone on 9-11, it is a stab in the heart of America.


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## miniwhinny (Jul 20, 2010)

Sonya said:


> I think it's a stab in the heart to everyone who has lost someone on 9-11, it is a stab in the heart of America.


Lets get this right...it's a stab in the heart of christian America..right? Because Muslim AMERICAN's died that day also because of some radical nutcases. So let's not forget what this is about...this is about

TWO RELIGIONS HATING EACH OTHER simply based on the others RELIGION.


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## Sonya (Jul 20, 2010)

> Lets get this right...it's a stab in the heart of christian America..right? Because Muslim AMERICAN's died that day also because of some radical nutcases. So let's not forget what this is about...this is about


Well in my eyes, there is no christian americans, muslim american, african americans...it's just americans!

I'm sure Berlin would love a big huge ole monument honoring Hitler...

While they are building a mosque, why don't they just put the headquarters of the KKK there or perhaps even the black panthers. Call me a bigot if you want, I don't really give a crap!


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## Sue_C. (Jul 20, 2010)

> WOW ! Have you ever heard of the word BIGOT


WOW...right back atcha...that was a bit uncalled for.

Why on earth should any religious building put there at all??

Why not leave it as it is now...a monument to ALL LIVES LOST?

Do you not think for one moment that the extremests would not think this a "feather in their cap"...think about it before slamming me for being what I am not. There are Muslems protesting this as well as Christians, Jews and pepole of many religions...so I suppose they too are bigots? Hmmm...seems they must be...they must just sooo hate themselves??

This is sooo not about "Two religions hating each other", it is about RESPECT.


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## Sonya (Jul 20, 2010)

> This is sooo not about "Two religions hating each other", it is about RESPECT


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## miniwhinny (Jul 20, 2010)

The mosque isn't part of the monument.

Seriously stop and think about it for a moment...."There are Muslems protesting this as well as Christians, Jews and pepole of many religions". It's always religions vs. religions. There is very little tolerance. Lets be real here - if they were building a christian church there wouldn't be an uproar. There was no uproar when someone stuck a cross at ground zero ! For hundreds and hundreds of years there has been violence and death between the "christian" west and the "Muslim" east. American men and women are dying in their thousands right now because of a religious war. I think the fact that people don't want a mosque near ground zero is just a continuance. They can't separate peaceful, kind loving people wanting to worship from the deep underlying hatred and suspicion that constantly pits one side against the other. In reality there should be no offense in any group wanting to worship - I mean what could be more (and I say this tongue in cheek) peaceful and loving...but there IS - these posts prove that.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 20, 2010)

miniwhinny said:


> TWO RELIGIONS HATING EACH OTHER simply based on the others RELIGION.


Not sure how I feel about any religious building being put there but the above quote..

well Welcome to America..* where we have many wonderful things worth fighting for and many brave men and women who fight for it every day *and yet we also have people hated and killed on a daily basis due to regligion- color of skin - sexual orientation

It has always sort of confused me how such a wonderful country who has done so much to fight for and made ultimate sacrafices for freedom can be so complacent to what is going on in our own backyard


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## miniwhinny (Jul 20, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> Why on earth should any religious building put there at all??
> 
> This is sooo not about "Two religions hating each other", it is about RESPECT.


This says it all...it is not about respect. Just stop and think about what you're saying..."Why on earth should any religious building put there at all". I think you covered EXACTLY what I was saying. If the Bank of America was putting up a branch office ? If Starbucks were opening a coffee shop? If Hallmark were opening a card shop ? BUT it's a "religious" building OH!! A religious building. Case close


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## Pepipony (Jul 20, 2010)

The new mosque isnt at ground zero, it is in the neighborhood, but not at. Might help to get the facts correct before forming an opinion as the opinion may be different.

I say, so what!!???!!! To hold an entire peoples accountable for the acts of some world class morons is, well, its bigotry. On that line of thinking, do they then ban any new Christian places near Oklahoma city since the bombers were Christian? Do they ban anything Japanese in Hawaii?? Near as I can tell, 'we' caucasians only hold those accountable, that look different than us. We interred Asians after Pearl but we did nothing to the Germans or Italians living here. We dont denounce the Irish ( IRA ), we dont ban the English ( revolutionary war) its just us against those that look different. In a word, bigotry. My father in laws first name was Adolf , yet I dont hold him accountable for WWII. Hubby is also of split descent, Irish/German, I dont assume he is a Nazi nor a member of the IRA.

I totally and completely get what happened on 9/11, I lost a friend in it. But I refuse to allow my feelings for those radical idiots, to cloud my opinion of an entire peoples. I am better than that. I think the world would be a better place if we all tried to see things from other points of view. And NOT the view of the radical idiots, but the view of the innocents who are being portrayed as such, or at least being assumed that they are such.


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## miniwhinny (Jul 20, 2010)

Pepipony said:


> The new mosque isnt at ground zero, it is in the neighborhood, but not at. Might help to get the facts correct before forming an opinion as the opinion may be different.
> 
> I say, so what!!???!!! To hold an entire peoples accountable for the acts of some world class morons is, well, its bigotry. On that line of thinking, do they then ban any new Christian places near Oklahoma city since the bombers were Christian? Do they ban anything Japanese in Hawaii?? Near as I can tell, 'we' caucasians only hold those accountable, that look different than us. We interred Asians after Pearl but we did nothing to the Germans or Italians living here. We dont denounce the Irish ( IRA ), we dont ban the English ( revolutionary war) its just us against those that look different. In a word, bigotry. My father in laws first name was Adolf , yet I dont hold him accountable for WWII. Hubby is also of split descent, Irish/German, I dont assume he is a Nazi nor a member of the IRA.
> 
> I totally and completely get what happened on 9/11, I lost a friend in it. But I refuse to allow my feelings for those radical idiots, to cloud my opinion of an entire peoples. I am better than that. I think the world would be a better place if we all tried to see things from other points of view. And NOT the view of the radical idiots, but the view of the innocents who are being portrayed as such, or at least being assumed that they are such.









:yeah



:yeah





YOU are what America should be about.

I thought we were founded on freedom to practice the religion of our choice (or not) Obviously the "freedom" is only if it's the religion of choice and the "practice" is only in the place we allow.


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## Sonya (Jul 20, 2010)

miniwhinny said:


> :yeah
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We were technically founded 'One nation under GOD' with the freedom to practice any religon. And I still don't think it belongs there! I get so tired of people always so concerned with being politically correct...they forget about the ideals of what this country was founded on....they can build the mosque anywhere (and I know it's not right on top of ground zero)...why there? To create controversy is all...to yet divide more people.


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## Sue_C. (Jul 20, 2010)

miniwhinny said:


> This says it all...it is not about respect. Just stop and think about what you're saying..."Why on earth should any religious building put there at all". I think you covered EXACTLY what I was saying. If the Bank of America was putting up a branch office ? If Starbucks were opening a coffee shop? If Hallmark were opening a card shop ? BUT it's a "religious" building OH!! A religious building. Case close


No, NOT "case closed" at all.

Do you not think for one second that there won't be terrorist funds going into this building? Come on now...do you SERIOUSLY think they would miss this opportunity? I am not a religious person, not of any faith persay...and find it objective. And no, I don't get into the "Shrine thing" either, of any particular group...I simply find it repugnant to think of EVEN ONE extemest having a chance to "get off" on entering that building to "give thanks" to whatever higher being he beleives in.


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## miniwhinny (Jul 20, 2010)

Sonya said:


> To create controversy is all...to yet divide more people.


I think your own words speak volumes. Why would someone else's faith cause division. _Unless...! _



(that's a rhetorical question...it's to be thought about not answered)


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## miniwhinny (Jul 20, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> Do you not think for one second that there won't be terrorist funds going into this building?


So, ahead of time with no proof other than the religion being practiced - you have decided that it will be funded by terrorists. That prejudgment is exactly what the quotes in italics on my very first post is all about.


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## Sonya (Jul 20, 2010)

I guess the same could be said for you...I don't divide people who are legal citizens here...I don't believe it should be christian american, muslim americans, african american, irish american...and the list goes on....people divide themselves on their own without the help of others....I am an American...I don't divide myself with religious or racial explanations. No one needs to know I am a sweedish indian french canadian irish heterosexual christian female american....try putting that on a census form.


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## Shari (Jul 20, 2010)

I think.. no religion should put any building up near the site. No race is better than the other, same with religion. I don't care what color or what ever a person is.

What should happen is a Non denomination, no race Monument should be put up by a neutral party.


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## Pepipony (Jul 20, 2010)

When calling upon the founding fathers, one needs to remember that Thomas Jefferson, the one who wrote the Declaration of Independence, thought that the idea of a Christian faith was rather absurd.

I do have a question about religion then. Since people are stating that terrorist funds will go to this building, without proof at that, then I guess those who give $$ to Catholic churches are condoning child molestation? Just a thought. ( and NO, I dont think that, I am just using that line of thinking on another religion)

When you hold an entire religion or peoples responsible for some loonies doings, you create a self fullfilling prophecy. You MAKE that which you are trying to avoid.


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## miniwhinny (Jul 20, 2010)

Sonya said:


> We were technically founded 'One nation under GOD'


It's interesting that the pledge of allegiance was not written until 1892 but the words "under god" weren't added until 1954.

Pepipony is also quite correct in pointing out that the founding fathers were far from christian.

John Adams, the second president of the United States, spoke so well when he said ""This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." I don't think this could be better illustrated than the subject and contents of this thread.

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html


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## Katiean (Jul 20, 2010)

I think there is a time and place for everything. This is not the time and GROUND ZERO is not the place. Yes it was some NUT CASES that ran those planes into the Twin Towers. A REALLY BIG group of nut cases. In fact we still have not stopped the REALLY BIG GROUP OF NUT CASES. So, will there be a time for a mosque at GROUND ZERO? I don't know. But, this is totally not the time for that place. This is one NATION under GOD. WHO ever that GOD is for you. But, lets not stir the hornets nest with a Mosque at Ground Zero when it was ONLY Muslims that did this dead.


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## Jill (Jul 20, 2010)

I do not like the idea. I agree it with a great lady who recently said it "stabs hearts". Opening day = September 11. It just feels very wrong and with no regard to the feelings of those people who lost loved ones on that day. I feel the location, the opening day, the entire idea reeks of disrespect and disregard for the most widely held American feelings and values.


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## Tab (Jul 20, 2010)

I guess I am "bigot" #2.

Islam does not honor life or peace for those who do not believe as they do. Islam is not a religion of peace. They do not practice "family-friendly". We shouldn't excitedly welcome a religious group that is urged to kill you if you do not convert!

I absolutely believe that building a mosque there is arrogance and an intention to conquer. Please research their teachings before you invite them without question.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 20, 2010)

Tab said:


> I
> 
> Islam does not honor life or peace for those who do not believe as they do.


Again I do not believe ANY religious building should be put on that site but that said.. couldnt the above be said about almost any religion?

So many in fact all religions have radicals and those that choose to judge anyone who does not believe as they do.


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## Tab (Jul 20, 2010)

~Lisa~ said:


> Again I do not believe ANY religious building should be put on that site but that said.. couldnt the above be said about almost any religion?


A giant group of people who seek to conquer all Nations through hostile takeover? No.


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## uwharrie (Jul 21, 2010)

Well said!














Pepipony said:


> The new mosque isnt at ground zero, it is in the neighborhood, but not at. Might help to get the facts correct before forming an opinion as the opinion may be different.
> 
> I say, so what!!???!!! To hold an entire peoples accountable for the acts of some world class morons is, well, its bigotry. On that line of thinking, do they then ban any new Christian places near Oklahoma city since the bombers were Christian? Do they ban anything Japanese in Hawaii?? Near as I can tell, 'we' caucasians only hold those accountable, that look different than us. We interred Asians after Pearl but we did nothing to the Germans or Italians living here. We dont denounce the Irish ( IRA ), we dont ban the English ( revolutionary war) its just us against those that look different. In a word, bigotry. My father in laws first name was Adolf , yet I dont hold him accountable for WWII. Hubby is also of split descent, Irish/German, I dont assume he is a Nazi nor a member of the IRA.
> 
> I totally and completely get what happened on 9/11, I lost a friend in it. But I refuse to allow my feelings for those radical idiots, to cloud my opinion of an entire peoples. I am better than that. I think the world would be a better place if we all tried to see things from other points of view. And NOT the view of the radical idiots, but the view of the innocents who are being portrayed as such, or at least being assumed that they are such.


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## miniwhinny (Jul 21, 2010)

After all...

We all know that if one Pit Bull bites someone - well the entire breed must be monsters and should be destroyed right? The Pit that you know that's a big soft lap dog is just an evil devil waiting until you're not looking then it's going to eat your baby. I mean everyone knows that's the truth


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## Southern_Heart (Jul 21, 2010)

Ground Zero is not the place for this Mosque.

Whenever Muslims scourge an area they build a mosque at the religious center (such as on the site of a church or temple) to show that they have conquered an area and are now in charge.

The U.S. has no religious center, but a financial one. The World Trade Center represents the heart of the U.S. commerical vibe. They destroyed it. The mosque is a sign of their victory over the big satan, America.

Here the link to the page to read the whole thing.

Whenever Muslims scourge an area they build a mosque


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## Katiean (Jul 21, 2010)

Southern_Heart said:


> Ground Zero is not the place for this Mosque.
> 
> Whenever Muslims scourge an area they build a mosque at the religious center (such as on the site of a church or temple) to show that they have conquered an area and are now in charge.
> 
> ...


So it is kind of like a dog peeing on a tree to mark his terratory!? My question is who in the H#%L gave the permits for this to happen?


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## Southern_Heart (Jul 21, 2010)

Katiean, Yes you could say that and a very big dog at that! I think its time for America to wake up!!!

Worse still, the design for the Ground Zero Mosque is a mockery of the World Trade Center building design. Islamic jihadists took down those buildings when they attacked and murdered 3,000 people in an act of conquest and Islamic supremacism. What better way to mark your territory than to plant a giant mosque on the still-barren land of the World Trade Center?

Any decent American, Muslim or otherwise, wouldnt dream of such an insult. Its a stab in eye of America.

The location is no accident. Just as it was no accident that the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built on top of the Temple in Jerusalem. And what about the Hagia Sophia, the ancient cathedral of the church of Constantinople, which was the grandest church in Christendom at the time it was built in the 6th century and for 1,000 years thereafter? It was converted to a mosque in 1453 when the Muslims conquered Constantinople. Now it is a museum, but Islamic prayers are allowed in it while Christian prayers are not. It is now, of course, the Aya Sofya mosquethey didnt change the name, just Islamified it.


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## Pepipony (Jul 21, 2010)

Tab said:


> A giant group of people who seek to conquer all Nations through hostile takeover? No.



Read the Quaran then. Dont read what people decide to tell you about it. Guess we should ban Christianity as well. Or have we forgotten all that has been done in its name. Crusades anyone?

And I will state again. CHeck the facts too, dont trust what I say. This isnt to be done AT ground zero. In a close neighborhood, but not at. BIG ol fat difference.


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## Jill (Jul 21, 2010)

So you don't read any negative intentions related to the planned opening date, which is September 11, 2011? Really? Come on... 364 other days of the year, so many other pieces of real estate





Every American who knows about this is going to have an opinion about it, and I doubt any posts here will change any minds. For me, I know no amount of message board posting is going to tell me my head and heart are reading this one wrong. I find it to be (at least an attempt at) an arrogant, push the envelope as much as we can, insult to Americans


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## love_casper (Jul 21, 2010)

Love the pit bull analogy!

I honestly don't believe that ANY building truly belongs there, other than a monument of sorts or rebuilding the towers. I'd be offended if they put up a Disneyland!

That said.... the mosque is to be blocks away from the site. So? Not like every American studying the muslim religion is part of Al-Qaeda. About as many Christians who strictly follow levidical law. You know what I think would be REALLY cool? If in a circle surrounding ground zero - a place screaming with intolerance - they built a mosque, a catholic church, a christian church, a Hindu temple, Buddhist temple, Wiccan coven, Tao whatever they call it, do Confusionists have places of worship? I'm none of the above religions but it would be a nice symbol. Because I feel if we want to teach religious tolerance and equality... if you're gonna have one then go for 'em all.

Coexisting is a funny concept but perhaps my generation will live to see it.


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## Tab (Jul 22, 2010)

Those who are really paying attention are concerned about where the United States is headed. Our great Nation was founded on Christian values. If you are living in this country and truly care I would urge you to read a reliable history about our founding fathers.

I don't believe that only 9 years ago we would have seen quite so much political correctness and polarization of our values. We are one Nation UNDER GOD, and in no way does the God of the United States have a thing to do with the "prophet Muhammad."

These truly are the days when wrong is right and right is wrong. Do you know a person who is blessed with instincts? Even better, discernment? Mine tell me we are quickly heading toward destruction.

To argue the "pitbull analogy" no true Christian murders in the name of God/Jesus Christ. They may say (in their sick minds) it is so but we *know *by their fruit to whom they serve. Entire Nations have become conquered through violence by Islam. Why is that? Because if you will not convert you are murdered. Please enlighten me on who incites the greatest number of terror attacks worldwide?

I'm a Christian so I'm used to, "oh, those Christians...," but I will not harm (nor do I have any desire to harm) someone just because they don't believe the same things or they make fun of my beliefs! That goes for my believing brothers and sisters.

I'm truly sad for those of you who think a mosque anywhere near ground zero is acceptable, and that is not because you believe differently, but that you are vastly confused. Your moral compass and idea of acceptance is askew.


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## Southern_Heart (Jul 22, 2010)

Yup its like putting the fox in the hen house and we are the hens.

No good is going to become of this Mosque. Also its being built to with stand any bombs. Gosh that has to tell you something!!!! If its going to be that sturdy then it could be thier Headquarters, right on our own turf, right under our own noses. Oh and yes its really not on Ground Zero property, but to darn close for comfort.

For all of you that think its alright.... lets see how you feel years down the line when something happens.Then the grand opening on 9-11 should be a good hint, but some of you folks just can see that!!!

I forsure am concerned were the United Stated is going and right now it doesn't look to promising.


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## Pepipony (Jul 22, 2010)

If we are going to state things, such as the Hagia Sophia being built and when, might take into account what was there before it was built. But I guess that doesnt matter.

There is no set opening date, 9/11/11 is a date thrown out there by God knows whom, but we have a pretty good idea what side they lean from, with no truth in fact. The site, yet again, isnt AT ground zero. But I guess it runs along with what and whom we choose to hate, so who cares about facts so long as it SOUNDS good.

Our Country wasnt based on any specific religion, it was founded on Freedom OF religion. Read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.


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## Minimor (Jul 22, 2010)

The way things are going, in a few more years we'll all be bowing to the east and praising Mohammad.

I don't think that there should be any religious shrine or house of worship anywhere in the area of Ground Zero--if it's close enough to be associated with Ground Zero then IMO it's too close & doesn't belong there.

Let the area be neutral--a park setting that is a memorial to the towers and the lives that were lost there, and nothing more.


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## Pepipony (Jul 22, 2010)

Actually my moral compass is pointed in the perfect direction. I swear if I thought to believe in bigotry all of my forefathers would come back and kick my arse. They didnt fight Wars for centuries for me to be a bigot.


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## Katiean (Jul 22, 2010)

Come on guys. It isn't bigotry to have good sense about what is happening to the US. We are being over run with illegal aliens. And yes, illegal does mean criminal because they broke laws to get here. I mean if you don't have to obey the laws for immigration, then why is there a man in prison for stealing a piece of pizza? It was his third strike. He is not getting out. A law is a law and you can not just pick and choose which laws we obey and which ones we do not.

Now as far as this Mosque goes. I am not a bigot about that either. I believe any religion is good as far as it causes no harm to others around it. I feel war over religion is totally wrong and people should not be forced to leave a region because of their religion. How ever, IMO it doesn't matter if it is a Mosque or just a building that some club is going to meet in, if they believe they must cause harm to those that do not or will not believe what they want you to believe, it has no place anywhere near where so many had to die for no reason. Come on, lets have a bit of respect for how the families feel. I think the person that signed the permits for the building should have their head examined.


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## Tab (Jul 22, 2010)

I urge you all to educate yourself about Islam. This youtube video enlightened me! To fully understand we need to learn the truth. This video is the truth in simple terms.

Three Things about Islam


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## Sue_C. (Jul 22, 2010)

Choudary on Islam

It is not bigotry to wish for Peace, understanding, and respect from all sides.


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## Jill (Jul 23, 2010)

The planned opening date, September 11, 2011, is widely published and reported.


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## Pepipony (Jul 23, 2010)

Jill said:


> The planned opening date, September 11, 2011, is widely published and reported.



Jill I havent seen it, through all the searching for info on the site, no dates have been listed. Can you post a link maybe? On the other side, being published and reported doesnt make it true. Might just make the reports copies of what they heard. On another note, if it is 9/11 , know that that date, is also a birth ( or death ) date of an important muslim.


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## Jill (Jul 23, 2010)

Pepipony said:


> Jill I havent seen it, through all the searching for info on the site, no dates have been listed. Can you post a link maybe? On the other side, being published and reported doesnt make it true. Might just make the reports copies of what they heard. On another note, if it is 9/11 , know that that date, is also a birth ( or death ) date of an important muslim.


Google it, Pepi.

Edit to add: Please don't pretend to think any citizen of the USA is going to believe opening this "ground zero mosque" on the decade anniversary of 9/11 is to honor important dead Muslims (unless you count the terrorists who died in their attack on our Nation that day). The suggestion that the date is symbolic of something other than the terrorist attack is insulting.


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## Sue_C. (Jul 23, 2010)

> On another note, if it is 9/11 , know that that date, is also a birth ( or death ) date of an important muslim.


And then too, perhaps THAT was why that particular date was chosen for the American 9/11 Terrorist attack??


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## Pepipony (Jul 23, 2010)

I did google it, all I came up with were sites that were right wing. To me that says that its just rhetoric and 'may' , note that I said may, just be what people want us to think and not a fact. I find it sad that in this day and age people cant just accept others. I forget who in this discussion stated the founding fathers ideology and who brought up Christianity but I ask this, does that mean that any non-christian shouldnt be here? If Christians are so wonderfull and dont kill, then what do YOU think about those that dont obey every commandment? I am refering to 'thou shalt not kill'. Personally, I feel that commandments are a general rule, there are exceptions. Just wondering how Christians who state that christians dont kill, feels about that.

I dont care the reasoning as to why some nut job chose a date. Does that mean if some Christian nut job chooses 12/25 for something, then we can never celebrate Christmas?


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## Sue_C. (Jul 23, 2010)

> I dont care the reasoning as to why some nut job chose a date.


I just questioned something you yourself had mentioned, querying as to whether that had anything to do with the date chosen.



> On another note, if it is 9/11 , know that that date, is also a birth ( or death ) date of an important muslim.


As for



> Does that mean if some Christian nut job chooses 12/25 for something, then we can never celebrate Christmas?


of course it doesn't. But, let me tell you, if he/she did commit some horrendous crime in the name of Chrisianity, in a forgien Country...I would HARDLY for one second, think it right or proper to set a massive Church up within sight of the place the crime was committed, especially with that same date as the opening date. 
Aside from the fact that this isn't just ONE nut-job we are talking about...but an entire group/Army of them...armed and dangerous, standing...no...HIDING behind their religion... It is not the religion I dislike, it is the way it has been turned and twisted to suit their wants...their contstant need to cause conflict, death and terror throughout the entire World.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 23, 2010)

Wow this has been interesting you learn alot about people 

Not every Muslim is a terrorist- not every illegal alien is Hispanic- not every Jew is good with money- not every Christian is a wonderful human being- not every white person in the south is a red neck bigot- not every Mormon is into polygamy sterotypes help no one racism in any form is not acceptable to me

We could go round and round for hours. I do not think any religous building should be put on the site but I surely would not go as far as saying all Muslims are murdering horrible people.

When we lived in CA we were right next door to a Mosque. I went to go talk to whatever the correct term for the head of the Mosque would be about alot of gang activity we had in the neighborhood (not by muslims) It was interesting to be invited in and watch them pray. They were very nice people and the (again not sure of proper term here) head of the place lived behind us and often brought his family to see the minis. I personally think it is unfair to make blanket statements about Muslims and assume they are all terrorist killers.

It would be the same as assuming all Christians are murderous people because some choose to kill others to make a statement. Or to assume all whites are serial killers being that over 98 percent of serial killers in the US are white

I do not believe any of those things I refuse to judge an entire group of people based on actions of a smaller group.

I respect someone elses opinion to believe otherwise but I do not have to like it

Again I do not think we need any thing on that site but I also do not assume every muslim or middle eastern person I pass in the street is bad. That would be such a sad way to live IMO


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## Sue_C. (Jul 24, 2010)

> We could go round and round for hours. I do not think any religous building should be put on the site but I surely would not go as far as saying all Muslims are murdering horrible people.


Exactly. I did not start this post as an anti-Muslim / anti-religious fanatic. If it had been a group of any religion that had committed this act of violence against another, I would be against THEIR building a place of worship overlooking the site as well. It is just the "in your face" of it, I guess, that startled me when I first read about it, and made me want to know how others felt.


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## Sonya (Jul 24, 2010)

> On another note, if it is 9/11 , know that that date, is also a birth ( or death ) date of an important muslim.


Wow is all I can say....it is also a date that 3,000 people were killed with over 6,000 injured in the U.S. by those who did it in the name of the Muslim religon. Now I know not all Muslims are hate mongrels, terroritsts and murderers but on this day there were many who were. Wow is all I can say.


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## miniwhinny (Jul 25, 2010)

~Lisa~ said:


> Wow this has been interesting you learn alot about people
> 
> Not every Muslim is a terrorist- not every illegal alien is Hispanic- not every Jew is good with money- not every Christian is a wonderful human being- not every white person in the south is a red neck bigot- not every Mormon is into polygamy sterotypes help no one racism in any form is not acceptable to me







:yeah



:yeah


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## Charley (Jul 25, 2010)

I agree that this has been an interesting topic.

It isn't always the proper thing to do something just because you can. Common sense tells us it is necessary and proper to take other people's feelings into consideration.


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## Jill (Jul 25, 2010)

I agree with you, Lois. Well said.

Looking over this topic and thinking back to previous discussions here and other places, you can count on a small handful of people taking the side that is the most anti-American. It's always the same handful of people.

It reminds me of what Dennis Miller said about Michael Moore: "(He) simultaneously represents everything I detest in a human being and everything I feel obligated to defend in an American. Quite simply, it is that stupid moron's right to be that utterly, completely wrong."


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## vickie gee (Jul 25, 2010)

Wow. Had not read any forums for awhile. Came across this and after reading, reading, and reading I had to go back and read what the original post was about! Ok, was I aware of the building of ......? Of course I was. But for some reason I thought posts about politics and religion were not allowed. Either I was wrong or things have changed! But regardless of all that YES I was aware. I am right wing conservative Christian. Yeah, our country is in trouble. May God have mercy on America. Meanwhile I will pray, vote, and prepare to defend what is mine. My book is the Bible. My Constitution is the one the founding fathers created. Whatever yours is IS YOURS.


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## miniwhinny (Jul 25, 2010)

By the way...NY City Mayor AND Attorney General are both in favor of this.


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## Sonya (Jul 25, 2010)

well of course they are in favor...that is no surprise.


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## miniwhinny (Jul 25, 2010)

I don't think you'd find ONE person who wasn't horrified by the acts of 9/11 who has commented on this thread, not ONE ! What happened that day was an outrage not only to America, as an unprovoked attack on our soil, but to mankind in general. I find it sad that racism and bigotry are so very much alive. There are many people who do paint everyone with the same brush. Perhaps that's just based in ignorance. But until people learn to think differently we'll never become a nation of tolerance or a planet of tolerance and sadly we'll continue on this path of destruction. Anyone who is different, different race, sexual orientation, physical/mental disabilities, skin color and religion or lack of religion should see the reactions of some to be very sad.

As Lisa said

"Not every Muslim is a terrorist- not every illegal alien is Hispanic- not every Jew is good with money- not every Christian is a wonderful human being- not every white person in the south is a red neck bigot- not every Mormon is into polygamy.

Stereotypes help no one.

Racism in any form is not acceptable to me".

and as I said..."not every pit bull is a a vicious killer".

I welcome diversity and every human beings right to live in peace to worship (or not) to love or not, to exist !

Because the alternative takes us so far back...

Because who wants the hate that comes with the prejudices against...

A black in a white neighborhood

A gay person living next door

A disabled kid in your healthy kids class

A muslim in a christian neighborhood.........These things disgust me as much as the atrocious acts of 9/11 which themselves were committed because of narrow minded bigotry. And as I said in my first paragraph...

"What happened that day was an outrage not only to America, as an unprovoked attack on our soil, but to mankind in general" I'm just proud that I can separate those guilty of this act. Because there were Japanese Americans in Hawaii during Pearl Harbor who cursed Japan for this act. There was Jews during Hitlers reign of terror who knew that there were non Jewish Germans who would die side by side with them. There were white people willing to march side by side with blacks during the civil rights years and there are non muslims who know that the vile acts of the few do NOT blanket the whole.

Because IMO, anyone who can harbor any type of hatred towards an entire group because of a minority within that group, without being able to separate the two, is capable of more and that not only relates to radical muslims hating christians but christinas hating muslims.


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## Sonya (Jul 25, 2010)

Just because people do not want the mosque there or question their intentions (like opening on 9-11) does not make them a bigot. Lets face it...there is a very large group of Muslims who are NOT peaceful...and if you deny that then you are blind. So protecting ourselves from harm now makes us bigots? Questioning their intentions? Would you like to fly on an airplane that does not question the roster list? I suppose the program that makes child molesters register is against their rights? Afterall they may be reformed. Who are we to single them out? Of course apples and oranges here but something to think about! Unfortunately in this world there are people who wish harm and death on others...and now in this great country it is politically incorrect to even try to protect yourself and others.


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## Katiean (Jul 25, 2010)

It isn't racism or bigotry to have the opinion "No, Stop! Enough is enough". You can not just stand there and say "go ahead and do what you want". If I was a racist or bigot I would have nothing to do with Muslims or Hispanics. There is a Muslim that owns a store up by the subway and a lady that owns the subway shop. They are very nice people and the man "Tony" defended me in a car accident. These people are part of the community. They are not the ones building this mosque. As for illegal Hispanics, we need to get our boarders closed to this kind of crossing. My niece and nephew play with some Hispanic kids down the street. They came here the right way and there is nothing wrong with that. You just can not let people go Willy Nilly and do as they please. Everything we know and love as a nation would be lost.


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## Pepipony (Jul 25, 2010)

Sonya said:


> Wow is all I can say....it is also a date that 3,000 people were killed with over 6,000 injured in the U.S. by those who did it in the name of the Muslim religon. Now I know not all Muslims are hate mongrels, terroritsts and murderers but on this day there were many who were. Wow is all I can say.



In all fairness, with their calendar ( which doesnt match ours, kinda like the asian calendar) the historical date isnt always on 9/11. I dont know if in fact the 9/11/11 is the correct date for this birth/deatch date. And on that same line, I dont see how they can tear down the building that is there, and get a new one , of the size/design they state, up in only a year. I have an idea that the 9/11 opeing date, is one being thrown out there just to tick people off, and not done so by that muslim group, but by others.

And Jill, OMG, so if a person doesnt agree with you, they are Anti-american!!?? And here I thought that being american meant having freedom of thought, didnt know it meant if I disagreed with someone, I was Anti-american. How totally, absolutely and completely insulting.


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## Jill (Jul 25, 2010)

Pepipony said:


> And Jill, OMG, so if a person doesnt agree with you, they are Anti-american!!?? And here I thought that being american meant having freedom of thought, didnt know it meant if I disagreed with someone, I was Anti-american. How totally, absolutely and completely insulting.


I didn't single any person out, and I do not think that disagreeing with me is anti-American. Some positions stated, in my opinion, are anti-American. People are free to apply my opinion as they see fit -- if they even care to contemplate it that hard. For what it's worth, I stand behind everything I say and I say what I mean. I even attach my real name to it all. I don't think the label of "anti-American" is any more insulting than being called a "racist" or a "bigot" as has been thrown out a number of times on this thread.


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## Minimor (Jul 25, 2010)

> By the way...NY City Mayor AND Attorney General are both in favor of this.


Which proves what exactly?



> "Not every Muslim is a terrorist- not every illegal alien is Hispanic- not every Jew is good with money- not every Christian is a wonderful human being- not every white person in the south is a red neck bigot- not every Mormon is into polygamy.


 I don't see that anyone on this thread said they were? Most seem to be saying that a mosque shouldn't be built in that area, and most have indicated that no church, no matter what the faith, should be built in that location. Because they want religion kept out of the area of Ground Zero, how does that make them a bigot?
I suspect that if someone had wanted to build a catholic church right in that spot--the application would have been turned down. I could be wrong, but frequently that is the way it goes. Certain religions are discriminated against because they are "majority" and therefore there is no law against discrimination against those religions...anything Christian pretty much. But a mosque--if anyone in authority were to turn down a mosque, immediately there are cries of BIGOT and RACISM and PREJUDICE.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 25, 2010)

I really do not feel I am anti american and I do feel there has been some underlying bigotry by a couple on this thread. That said I stand by what I originally said and said more then once on this thread I do not feel any religious building should be put on the site

as well as



> *It has always sort of confused me how such a wonderful country who has done so much to fight for and made ultimate sacrifices for freedom can be so complacent to what is going on in our own backyard*


We have a wonderful Country depsite the differences we all have and beliefs we all have cause we are allowed to not only have them but voice them.


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## Sonya (Jul 25, 2010)

> In all fairness, with their calendar ( which doesnt match ours, kinda like the asian calendar) the historical date isnt always on 9/11. I dont know if in fact the 9/11/11 is the correct date for this birth/deatch date. And on that same line, I dont see how they can tear down the building that is there, and get a new one , of the size/design they state, up in only a year. I have an idea that the 9/11 opeing date, is one being thrown out there just to tick people off, and not done so by that muslim group, but by others.


I must say I find any attempt to justify the date (regardless if it is factual or not), and to defend it is nothing but disrespect to the innocent victims and their loved ones IMO.


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## Pepipony (Jul 25, 2010)

Sonya said:


> I must say I find any attempt to justify the date (regardless if it is factual or not), and to defend it is nothing but disrespect to the innocent victims and their loved ones IMO.




Seriously??!! Have you not been reading this thread? No one, and certainly not me, has justified ANYTHING these nutcases have done. What I was actually saying was a reply to the supposed open date of the new mosque. If you are going to comment, I think it prudent to READ what was written and not READ INTO what was written.


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## Tab (Jul 25, 2010)

I still say that all of this so-called tolerance without any real knowledge base is going to be the death of us. Most people defending and accepting muslim ideology know nothing at all about it. The "anything goes" and political correctness is truly digging our own graves. People need to take a stand. Just because a few authorities think something is okay doesn't make it right. Not now or ever!

My children were caught/delivered by women of other faiths. One who is still my doctor and the other is still a much-loved friend. They both helped save my life and I would defend their abilities to anyone. I am not racist nor am I a bigot.

Nothing anyone says is going to change my mind on this one. Building a mosque near ground zero is unjust. Thank God that there are other people who are aware of that and say it like it IS, a travesty!


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 25, 2010)

Tab said:


> Nothing anyone says is going to change my mind on this one. Building a mosque near ground zero is unjust.



On that we agree


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## Sonya (Jul 26, 2010)

> Seriously??!! Have you not been reading this thread? No one, and certainly not me, has justified ANYTHING these nutcases have done. What I was actually saying was a reply to the supposed open date of the new mosque. If you are going to comment, I think it prudent to READ what was written and not READ INTO what was written.


I have read what was written and that is how I feel. If the opening date is factual, it is plain to see that any peaceful group would not want to open on 9-11, especially when it has upset millions...but you won't see those peaceful protests or marches on the media, not today's media. So, I say yes to try to justify them using the date of a masacre is disrespectful to the victims imo.


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## Jill (Jul 26, 2010)

Sonya said:


> I must say I find any attempt to justify the date (regardless if it is factual or not), and to defend it is nothing but disrespect to the innocent victims and their loved ones IMO.


Sonya, I could not agree with you more!


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