# Todd Akin - how can you be this ignorant!



## ozymandias (Aug 27, 2012)

"From what I understand from doctors, that's really rare," said Akin said of pregnancy caused by rape. "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/19/todd-akin-abortion-legitimate-rape_n_1807381.html


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## Sonya (Aug 27, 2012)

Yes, he said something totally stupid and not factual...he did apologize, and I felt the apology was sincere...however, I think his comments will haunt him.

Quite frankly, all politicians have said some pretty asinine things, Pelosi, Reid, Biden, Obama, and many many others...only some comments get the attention they deserve.


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## ozymandias (Aug 27, 2012)

Sonya said:


> Yes, he said something totally stupid and not factual...he did apologize, and I felt the apology was sincere...however, I think his comments will haunt him.
> 
> Quite frankly, all politicians have said some pretty asinine things, Pelosi, Reid, Biden, Obama, and many many others...only some comments get the attention they deserve.


Well said!

Perhaps a small quiz on basic biology - or just general knowledge should be a requirement to run for office lol. Facepalm.


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## Jill (Aug 27, 2012)

It just shows that while the Democrats have claimed the Jack--- as their party logo, there are jack---es on both sides of the fence.


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## ozymandias (Aug 27, 2012)

http://www.guardian....P=ILCNETTXT3487

I'm finding the more Fundie right wing the party gets the harder it is to support them.

I have a couple of very right wing Christian friends - very nice gals, never miss being in the front row at Church every Sunday and Wednesday and bible study every Tuesday morning. Both had teenage daughters who got pregnant and BOTH confided in me that they had arranged for them to have abortions because of the shame having an unwed teenage mother would bring on their family. No one else ever knew that their daughters had ever been pregnant. Having those abortions is something they chose to do. I don't know if it would be something I could do...but I sure as heck would never pass judgement or deny that choice to another.


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## Jill (Aug 27, 2012)

DIsagree... Happy I live in a swing state that seems to be swinging right this time!





I like what I see in much the fundamentalist Right, and do not think that Aiken has many supporters OF WHAT HE SAID RECENTLY there. Though, I do know some won't miss a chance to try and bash Christian values, even if the example does not spout what many of that ilk would uphold.

And, speaking of swing states, I love the most recent elelectoral map... lots and lots of RED, and from a system that has been right since 1980:


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## ozymandias (Aug 27, 2012)

Jill said:


> I like what I see in much the fundamentalist Right, and do not think that Aiken has many supporters OF WHAT HE SAID RECENTLY there. Though, I do know some won't miss a chance to try and bash Christian values, even if the example does not spout what many of that ilk would uphold.


I've studied the bible in great detail so I'm very familiar with what the biblical God's "values" are. There's not many that are even legal (thank goodness) in today's civilized society. If you're referring to "Christian values" as being something other than what's in the bible then I'm pretty sure they're not exclusive to Christians. They're values we should all have as humans...love, caring, compassion, generosity, honesty etc, etc. I'm also 100% in support of everyone in this country having the right to their own beliefs but unlike today's right wingers I'm support TJ's views of keeping those values separated. We've certainly drifted a long way from the America that the Founding Fathers envisioned



. Allowing the right of free worship of whatever god or gods a person believes in, separate from the laws of our country was a pretty good idea 

"*Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights.* Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society".

~ Thomas Jefferson






But here we go on a tangent



The initial opening post was in reference to how scary it is that someone already holding political office in this country - Representative Akin (correct spelling) - can be so ignorant. Maybe it's just me but I'm certainly not very comforted knowing people like that can help to pass laws that effect us all.


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## susanne (Aug 27, 2012)

From what he has said, Akin seems only sorry that he used the term "legitimate rape." He has only apologized for using the wrong words, not for the basic idea he purports to be true.

Sadly, there are many benighted individuals who actually believe that "real" rape (a stranger jumping out from behind a tree) rarely results in pregnancy. In other words, if you get pregnant from a rape, you deserve it.

That said, I'm very appreciative that Republicans have loudly censured him, no matter their motives. Surprise, surprise -- Kirk Cameron fully supports him.


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## Riverrose28 (Aug 27, 2012)

As a rape victim myslef, I would like to know what is legitamate rape? Does he think the woman or girl asks for it, maybe they are wearing a short skirt or flirting, whatever! Or maybe like me they were just walking to the store to buy milk for their kids! As for the second statement, as we all are human and make a slip up, by mouth wonce in a while, the female body can stop the pregnancy! That is insane! He just didn't know when to stop speaking. A mistake is a mistake, stop once you realize your mouth is running in overdrive! I'm sorry this is a really sore subject for me, maybe I shouldn't respond! HIs apoligy was insignificant, the damage was done!


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## ozymandias (Aug 27, 2012)

susanne said:


> That said, I'm very appreciative that Republicans have loudly censured him, no matter their motives. Surprise, surprise -- Kirk Cameron fully supports him.


I'm glad they have too! I'm not sure how any man with a woman in his life be she his wife, daughter, mother, sister etc, wouldn't be outraged.

As for Kirk Cameron.I can't get upset at him because I can't take anything he says as credible - the man doesn't believe in evolution!!! How can you not believe in evolution? It's not up for debate - it's a scientifically proven, testable, FACT. It doesn't matter how deep in the darkness you bury your head...evolution is REAL. I don't know why there are people in the USA who don't understand it other than to say our education system is failing our children.

Here's a simple explanation that he may be able to understand.


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## ozymandias (Aug 27, 2012)

Riverrose28 said:


> As a rape victim myslef, I would like to know what is legitamate rape? Does he think the woman or girl asks for it, maybe they are wearing a short skirt or flirting, whatever! Or maybe like me they were just walking to the store to buy milk for their kids! As for the second statement, as we all are human and make a slip up, by mouth wonce in a while, the female body can stop the pregnancy! That is insane! He just didn't know when to stop speaking. A mistake is a mistake, stop once you realize your mouth is running in overdrive! I'm sorry this is a really sore subject for me, maybe I shouldn't respond! HIs apoligy was insignificant, the damage was done!


OMG !!!! Riverrose...I had no idea. I'm so sorry that you were violated like that ((((HUGS))))


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## Riverrose28 (Aug 27, 2012)

Sorry didn't mean to bum you out, I like words, legitimate has many meanings, none of which should pertain to rape. Rape is an act of violence, it is not consented to by the victim. The victim will not welcome the perp into their home or ask them on the street to violate them, the fear, shame, hurt is too hard to condone, then their is the anger. The victim must overcome and forgive in order to live a useful life, while the perp feels no shame remorse or compassion! Yes what he said may have been a mistake, but to keep on speaking was not, he should have stopped after he misspoke legitimate, and left it at that! I will not comment on this again, sorry, it's just too painful! By the way this happened in the 1960's, we will heal and forgive, but never forget!


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## bevann (Aug 27, 2012)

His comment about the female body shutting down to avoid pregnancy just made him come across as REALLY STUPID.IMO anybody that dumb has no business being in any kind of office.Makes me wonder what else he would do.


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## vickie gee (Aug 27, 2012)

ozymandias said:


> http://www.guardian....P=ILCNETTXT3487
> 
> I'm finding the more Fundie right wing the party gets the harder it is to support them.
> 
> I have a couple of very right wing Christian friends - very nice gals, never miss being in the front row at Church every Sunday and Wednesday and bible study every Tuesday morning. Both had teenage daughters who got pregnant and BOTH confided in me that they had arranged for them to have abortions because of the shame having an unwed teenage mother would bring on their family. No one else ever knew that their daughters had ever been pregnant. Having those abortions is something they chose to do. I don't know if it would be something I could do...but I sure as heck would never pass judgement or deny that choice to another.


Just curious. Given the fact that constantly you remind us of how you feel about Christians with the offensive videos and cartoons of Christians that you post, threads you initiate to bash Christians, comments to other members' threads constantly to remind us that you are an atheist and that you do not believe in creation and certainly not God (always never capitalized) *how do you know what row these gals that you believe to be your friends are actually sitting on?* I know, we have heard how one of your sons is a Christian (goes to a Christian school) and your spouse is also a Christian. Did you see where these gals sit while attending something at the church that one of your own family members was involved in? Did the gals tell you (since they confided in you and no one else about their daughters) where they sat? Did family members that attend services tell you where these gals sit? Did you wear a disguise and use a different name on the visitor card? Just curious. Not curious enough to click on the video though.


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## vickie gee (Aug 27, 2012)

Riverrose28 said:


> Sorry didn't mean to bum you out, I like words, legitimate has many meanings, none of which should pertain to rape. Rape is an act of violence, it is not consented to by the victim. The victim will not welcome the perp into their home or ask them on the street to violate them, the fear, shame, hurt is too hard to condone, then their is the anger. The victim must overcome and forgive in order to live a useful life, while the perp feels no shame remorse or compassion! Yes what he said may have been a mistake, but to keep on speaking was not, he should have stopped after he misspoke legitimate, and left it at that! I will not comment on this again, sorry, it's just too painful! By the way this happened in the 1960's, we will heal and forgive, but never forget!


You did not bum me out Riverrose, I think we have all heard you tell it before and my heart goes out to you.

I am also a rape victim....1993...looked up from my shower through my glass door of the shower just to see two men had entered through my front door which someone had made the mistake of not locking. We forgive, and it is not easy, we heal to the extent that we can, and actually restoration is a process. The scars remain.

Did you notice how on the thread Maesto started about abortion vs abortion involving rape that hardly anyone commented? With Todd Akin, it is not so personal to most folks, at least it seems,as to people like you and me that actually are rape victims. I think his comment was stupid. The word he used was not that bad if you consider Roe v Wade (she lied) or that statutory rape sometimes involves willing underage people. It has been a rough year for me. The guy that actually "did it" had his picture posted on the front page of the newspaper last year numerous times. I had a full fledged panic attack which you probably know is part of having PTSD. I pulled out the apology letter he wrote me 19 years ago. I wanted to ruin him. But he had asked for forgiveness. His own actions did catch up with him in a way that eventually cost him so much embarrassment. I so wanted to post on his facebook page so that his hundreds of "friends" that were hearing of his recent debaucle could hear that he is a rapist as well ...but I let it go.


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## susanne (Aug 27, 2012)

It's not the word that is stupid.

IT IS THE MAN.

He has said he thinks his mistake was using the wrong word. I couldn't care less what word he used -- what disgusts me is what he means, no matter what word he uses. He believes that a woman's body can reject a pregnancy if hers was what HE considers to be rape. His choice of words merelyunderlines the fact that he thinks some rape victims are not to be believed, that they deserve what they get, and that they should not be allowed an abortion. If you got pregnant, WE KNOW you're lying!!!

He thinks that he is worthy of judging who deserves to call what they have suffered "rape." Might as well, as he thinks it is his right to tell a woman what she can do with her body. (Who better than a privileged white man, right?) TALK ABOUT A SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT.

Yeah, we really need some politician sitting in judgment of whether a woman was raped in a manner that he deems worthy of the term. Were they raped by choice? Is it no less traumatic if it was a college date who slipped her a mickey? A violent husband who beats the crap out of his wife before and after?

And why should this be a deciding factor on whether they can get an abortion or not? Abortion will always exist...the choice is whether it happens in a doctor's office or a back alley. I guess cretins like Akin think women should go back to dying from knitting needle abortions. If you believe abortion is wrong, then don't get an abortion. If you are upset about abortion as birth control (and I agree), then make birth control easier to obtain.

It seems that some think they'll stop people from having sex if they can only punish the ones who do -- make them bear those children and suffer in poverty unless they keep their legs crossed. Those evil sluts! Now, of course, if they are righteous and have wealthy parents, then the abortion can be hushed up and we can pretend it didn't happen, as it always should be. But as for those nasty poor women...oh for the days of the chastity belt!

Sorry to go on and on, but I'm so tired of this crap.


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## ozymandias (Aug 27, 2012)

What a well written post Susanne.

Rape victims are already so reluctant to come forward as it is. it's shocking to think ignorant attitudes like this are held by those elected to represent those same women.

I often think the world would be very different if some of these men had to walk in a womans shoes for a while.


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## MountainWoman (Aug 28, 2012)

Vickie and Riverrose, my heart goes out to you both. You are both so incredibly strong and brave.

As to Mr. Akin. Who knows if his apology is sincere? Only God knows what is in his heart and what he believes. My worry about all of this is that he is so incredibly judgmental for women confronting life changing, horrific events. I certainly don't want men (or women) who are so rigid and judgmental in their beliefs determining the fate of my life or my grandchildren's lives. Mr. Akin is free to believe as he chooses. Our freedom in this country is what makes us great. But I also have the freedom not to vote or support any candidate who thinks as he does.

Think before you vote. That's all I say. There's a lot more at stake than the economy.

And I admire the strength of all the women in the world who have been faced with difficult, personal decisions. They deserve respect and privacy and not condemnation.


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## Jill (Aug 28, 2012)

Gosh, here we have someone who has been rebuked from all angels. Both political parties and both sexes. Sure, some men are obnoxious. Some women are just as equally misguided. To validate his view point of view by pretending it's owned by ANYONE other than him is a disservice and contrived.

As to a sense of entitlement, I'm not sure how what this moron has said equates to THAT, though I do think a sense of entitlement is at the heart of many of our National woes. A sense of entitlement, to me, means that you expect others to provide _______________ for you -- that you are _entitled_ to benefit from the fruits of other people's efforts and success. While I find much (MUCH) fault with what Akin said, and I've not talked to anyone who doesn't, _a sense of entitlement _is not his encumbrance, even if it is a hot phrase these days.

The media has been ALL over this mess, but have they given equal time to Biden's most recent outrageous remark? Heck no. Why would they when they play for the same team? "Put ya'll back in chains..." Seriously? And just the icing on the cake is which party actually stood up against slavery (Republicans), and from which party the KKK was born (Democrats).

One of my all time favorite personalities in one of my all time favorite YouTube videos. It's both entertaining and informative:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xryXpK042pQ


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## MountainWoman (Aug 28, 2012)

Jill,

I'll watch the video later but I agree with you 100% about entitlement. Maybe that should be a different thread? I was raised and raised my child to believe that you had to work for everything and nothing would be handed to you whether it was good grades, a car, a whatever, hard work had to be involved. And money doesn't grow on trees. It has to be earned.

I still not voting for Romney though but I respect those who chose a different path.


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## ozymandias (Aug 28, 2012)

MountainWoman said:


> Think before you vote. That's all I say. There's a lot more at stake than the economy.


...like some of the freedoms we've fought so hard for. The Republican party sure has changed over the past few decades






http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gop-platform-through-the-years-shows-partys-shift-from-moderate-to-conservative/2012/08/28/09094512-ed70-11e1-b09d-07d971dee30a_story.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/28/column-brill-idUSL2E8JS1Y820120828


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## Jill (Aug 28, 2012)

vickie gee said:


> Just curious. Given the fact that constantly you remind us of how you feel about Christians with the offensive videos and cartoons of Christians that you post, threads you initiate to bash Christians, comments to other members' threads constantly to remind us that you are an atheist and that you do not believe in creation and certainly not God (always never capitalized) *how do you know what row these gals that you believe to be your friends are actually sitting on?* I know, we have heard how one of your sons is a Christian (goes to a Christian school) and your spouse is also a Christian. Did you see where these gals sit while attending something at the church that one of your own family members was involved in? Did the gals tell you (since they confided in you and no one else about their daughters) where they sat? Did family members that attend services tell you where these gals sit? Did you wear a disguise and use a different name on the visitor card? Just curious. Not curious enough to click on the video though.


Vickie, seriously, I am not sure how you could be more right on. So many times, I feel like threads and discussion are instigated with this very ulterior motive, and it bothers me especially when LB is such a "family" and we so often do come together in prayer for one another. I personally feel I've benefited from a unity of prayers from LB during a very scary time in my own past. While I personally do not belong to an organized religion, I respect those who do.



MountainWoman said:


> Jill,
> 
> I'll watch the video later but I agree with you 100% about entitlement. Maybe that should be a different thread? I was raised and raised my child to believe that you had to work for everything and nothing would be handed to you whether it was good grades, a car, a whatever, hard work had to be involved. And money doesn't grow on trees. It has to be earned.
> 
> I still not voting for Romney though but I respect those who chose a different path.


I'd actually love to take part in that kind of a discussion, but am unsure about STARTING it or watching it on LB. I can deal with the fact that while our Nation leans right, most POSTERS on LB lean left. But what I do not want to deal with are the personal attacks and the imposition on the moderators' time. Just not sure I feel up to watching every second to see what someone has said about me personally, nor wanting to put that on the moderators' plates. I've been called a "nazi" and other colorful terms on LB too many times since 2008, and am in no mood as of this date


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## Jill (Aug 28, 2012)

MountainWoman said:


> Think before you vote. That's all I say. There's a lot more at stake than the economy.


I couldn't agree more and would like to share the following, an imgage that I made upon hearing the remark yesterday morning. THIS is exactly how I see it in 2012:


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## ozymandias (Aug 28, 2012)

Another GOP representative making ridiculous rape comments. I wonder how they'd feel if it were their daughters or wives that were brutally violated





http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/tom-smith-rape_n_1834234.html


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## ohmt (Aug 28, 2012)

You put Biden's comment back in context and it was not even remotely close to what Akin said. Actually, even out of context it's not even there.


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## Jill (Aug 28, 2012)

Disagree, Amanda, and I heard and read the complete Biden remark. BIDEN is the gift that keeps giving if you're a republican... No matter what a "news"caster might state, much like Obama's _"You Didn't Built That" _remark, it gets *no* better when heard in the entirety.


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## ozymandias (Aug 28, 2012)

ohmt said:


> You put Biden's comment back in context and it was not even remotely close to what Akin said. Actually, even out of context it's not even there.


Totally AGREE.



I'm not sure how anyone can minimize what Akin said


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## Jill (Aug 28, 2012)

I surely didn't see ANYONE minimizing the remark by AKIN. Biden's chains remark is another matter, and while we probably have more white women here than black women, still, I hope we all see the issue. I don't think LB is a racist community, nor a sexist one. BOTH remarks are outrageous statements. One gets mainstream attention, and the other does not. However, to ascribe them to "white men" or "republicans" (or democrats in the case of Biden) is to give them a mainstream legitimacy the remarks do not deserve. Seriously... one is not more okay than the other even if we are mostly a collection that identifies primarily as female.


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## ohmt (Aug 28, 2012)

Everyone interprets how they want to


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## Jill (Aug 28, 2012)

ohmt said:


> Everyone interprets how they want to


Yes, we do, Amanda. We each can decide if we think sexist remarks are more or less tolerable than racist remarks. Some of us will find them to be equally intolerable and wrong.


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## tagalong (Aug 28, 2012)

Biden's remarks got mainstream attention... it was all over the place and was not ignored. Taken in context and with how he has previously described Americans being imprisoned or in chains by big banks etc. (and similar lame metaphors), it was NOT a reference to slavery or racist as so many right wing talking heads fell all over themselves to insist. The African Americans in the crowd Biden was speaking to were not outraged - but I guess we need to tell them they should have been!

The two instances are not even remotely the same. Biden is a bit of a dolt at times and gets his words screwed up and trips over his tongue -_ Akin knew __*exactly*__ what he was saying even though he offered a lame "apology". _

As far as personal insults in discussions on LB - I have never seen anyone called a Nazi - except maybe the President. Maybe it was deleted but IMO to suggest that the posters on LB who lean left (and only them) might resort to nasty personal insults in a discussion that has not even started yet is perhaps a bit inappropriate.



I know I have never personally insulted anyone - and I never would.

An entitlement discussion would be great, *Mountainwoman* ...


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## ohmt (Aug 28, 2012)

"Yes, we do, Amanda. We each can decide if we think sexist remarks are more or less tolerable than racist remarks. Some of us will find them to be equally intolerable and wrong."

Or by choosing to take someone's words and make them seem as though they think racist comments are not important.

Thank you, tag


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## ozymandias (Aug 28, 2012)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> I feel the _"You Didn't Built That" _& Biden _"chains" _comment got totally taken out of context by the republicans.. Why do they do this?? I feel this is dirty politics and I am seeing more and more of it.. In both parties.
> 
> As for Akin (I am insulted also) - He and the Republicans needs to stay out of Woman's personal issues.. If Akin's and whoever wants to insult woman, fine.. but they need to keep woman's issues out of their government lawmaking.


Well said





I'm not sticking up for Biden...he sure can put both feet in at times but the "chains" comment was totally changed and ran with by the Republican party and talking heads. He was talking about us all being in chains to big banking and Wall Street (which we ARE) and there wasn't one racial overtone to it until it was totally taken out of context.


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## Jill (Aug 28, 2012)

Again, I have read and heard the full remarks regarding "You didn't built that" and "Put ya'll back in chains.". I didn't need a talking head to interpret the meanings for me. I can figure it out for myself, and many others have as well (shoot, I've even seen the teeshirts and store front signs!).

I took the remarks by Biden and Obama exactly in the spirit in which they were meant. I may be fairly lonely in voicing this perspective here on _LB__, _but then I'm one of the few conservatives who still takes the time to post on LB. If you decide to focus on and be more offended by Akin than what *THE* Democratic ticket spouts forth, that's just as fine as it is unimpactful of any significant pending opportunities to vote.


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## vickie gee (Aug 29, 2012)

He is still in the state race, right?

Here is a link if anyone would like to read what someone who was the product of a rape says. His name is Ryan Bomberger an he is an extraordinary person. He sums up what is his opinion of how both sides are treating Todd Akin. His video in the article is just so inspiring. He is a gift and a gifted person. http://www.lifenews....dnt-step-aside/


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## vickie gee (Aug 31, 2012)

vickie gee said:


> He is still in the state race, right?
> 
> Here is a link if anyone would like to read what someone who was the product of a rape says. His name is Ryan Bomberger an he is an extraordinary person. He sums up what is his opinion of how both sides are treating Todd Akin. His video in the article is just so inspiring. He is a gift and a gifted person. http://www.lifenews....dnt-step-aside/


Well, I am even more in the fan club of Ryan after this. Joking about murder is just too lol, lol, lol it seems. This country needs more people that will stand on "principal rather than party." Ryan you are beautiful and cowardice is ugly. http://www.lifenews....being-murdered/

Glad you were not one of these, Ryan. http://www.numberofabortions.com/


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## vickie gee (Sep 3, 2012)

Jill said:


> Gosh, here we have someone who has been rebuked from all angels. Both political parties and both sexes. Sure, some men are obnoxious. Some women are just as equally misguided. To validate his view point of view by pretending it's owned by ANYONE other than him is a disservice and contrived.
> 
> As to a sense of entitlement, I'm not sure how what this moron has said equates to THAT, though I do think a sense of entitlement is at the heart of many of our National woes. A sense of entitlement, to me, means that you expect others to provide _______________ for you -- that you are _entitled_ to benefit from the fruits of other people's efforts and success. While I find much (MUCH) fault with what Akin said, and I've not talked to anyone who doesn't, _a sense of entitlement _is not his encumbrance, even if it is a hot phrase these days.
> 
> ...


Jill, I had not taken the time to watch this until now. This guy Zo pretty much has things down pat. He made me smile and that was hard to do as I just came home from visiting at the home next door to where I grew up. My friends' mom and a good friend to my mom for decades passed away yesterday. So now both my dad and his next door neighbor are both widowers. I come home and watch this video and this guy Zo put a smile on my face. And then at the end I clicked on the video Zo to Sheryl Crow and I "lost it" laughing. So thanks.


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## vickie gee (Sep 8, 2012)

So.....back to principle over party....if Todd Akins who is pro-life beats out Claire whatshername who is all in defense of the war on women aka war on babies (a fetus outside of the womb for crying out loud) I will say to the Show Me State: *Yeah, baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

*Bryan Fischer of American Family Radio is cheerleading you all the way and a lot of people do not appreciate the cowardice of either political party. *

*You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.*


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