# Need Help Please! Mare Literally Starving Herself!



## StarRidgeAcres (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't post as much lately and frankly it's because I'm still a bit overwhelmed with taking care of the farm and all the horses by myself so I just don't have the time. But now I've got a real problem on my hands and I NEED HELP! I will take any suggestions anyone has.

I have a 21 year old mare that is losing weight despite my efforts to reverse the process. Here is what has transpired and what I've tried...

She is my mare Cappy, dam of Mira. Mira is the last foal she had (2007). In July of 09, Cappy was ultrasounded in foal and her weight was acceptable. Not fat, but good coverage over her ribs, hips, etc. By November I had made the assumption she had slipped the foal as she was not gaining weight as the other pregnant mares were. Then in late December I saw obvious foal movement. So I had the vet out on Christmas eve and Cappy was ultrasounded again and sure enough there was a foal in there still. The vet physically examined Cappy and drew blood. Just about everything I can think of was tested - hormones levels, organs, cell counts. Nothing was out of the ordinary. The vet agreed Cappy was underweight and that the foal was probably really dragging her down so I changed her diet to Buckeye Growth, Ultimate Finish 100 and free choice grass hay.

On Jan 2nd, Cappy aborted a filly. The foal had no obvious signs of any abnormalities and seemed of proper development for 7.5 months gestation. The vet came out again, examined her internally and externally and took blood again. Once again, there was nothing in the results, nothing. Had the vet out one week later to float her teeth to see if that would possible help also.

So, now it's 2 months later and Cappy has continued to deteriorate. I'm so ashamed of her condition and feel so totally horrible for her. Over the last two months I have tried so many different feeds, treats, supplements but she just won't eat. She eats a handful of this, a handful of that and then walks away and just moseys around. She seems hungry and will whinny to me when she sees me, but again it's just a couple of mouthfuls and then she loses interest. The most she'll eat is of the cheapest, crappiest sweetfeed I can find or whole oats. And even those she just eats a bit.

In addition to her eating issues, many of you know that Cappy has difficulty walking...from an injury as a 2 year old. I've really noticed her seeming to have more difficulty lately. It seems she doesn't want to bend her front legs very much. And she rarely will lay down - I'm assuming because it's painful to get up?

This time last year I have a picture of Cappy running through the field, totally enjoying life. Today she is a shell of that horse. I don't know what else to do and I don't know if it's time to let her go. A couple of days ago I thought her eyes still looked bright and full of life, but today I don't know. She's going downhill before my eyes and I can't seem to figure out how to stop it.

I normally love my vet but am also feeling frustrated with them because they just aren't coming up with anything to help her. I'm at my wits end and I just can't stand seeing her condition so poor. I'm not sure she'll last long enough to get past her low weight issue.

Ok, I'm rambling, but I'm just so mad at myself and concerned for her. If I visited a farm and saw a horse in this condition I would be calling the authorities. And now I've got one of my own.

I will take any suggestions. Anything.


----------



## Ashley (Mar 9, 2010)

I wish I knew as I have that same problem here. My mare is 20, eats like crazy, is bred but I cant get weight on her. She does need her teeth done but cant get them done until after she foals. She gets free choice hay, alfalfa and grass. She gets mare/yearling grain.

If I knew she was going to be like this I wouldnt have bred her back.


----------



## Miniv (Mar 9, 2010)

I was going to have you have her checked for hyperlipemia............but I would have her checked for calcium deficiency and do it ASAP.

Bless her and bless YOU...... It doesn't sound good.


----------



## mydaddysjag (Mar 10, 2010)

Has your vet checked for ulcers? I had a (big horse) mare who we had similar issues with. I went back and fourth with my old vet about checking for ulcers, I felt she might have them, the vet said no way, she has a nice coat and feet and horses with a nice coat and feet dont have ulcers. Five cases of colic, about 300lbs, a new vet, and GI scope later she was diagnosed with ulcers. Shame is she had them for quite a while, because I was following vet #1's advice and treating her as a hard keeper and trying every food and supplement there was. After vet #2 scoped her and diagnosed her, we did a 30 day treatment, and she was well on her way to recovery. I will admit, she looked so bad I kept her blanketed or in a sheet as I was afraid someone wouldnt know I was working with a vet, and call the humane society.


----------



## HGFarm (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree on the calcium levels.... I am assuming you have had her teeth thoroughly checked? Good advice from all so far.


----------



## wildoak (Mar 10, 2010)

The above suggestions are all good, and I assume you have had her teeth checked. Wish I had something else to suggest, just wish you luck with her.






Jan


----------



## StarRidgeAcres (Mar 10, 2010)

I am getting lots of good advice, and I really appreciate it.

Honestly, I'm going to have to recheck with the vet tomorrow to get the list of all that has been checked for. I can't say that calcium is something I remember discussing. Please tell me why you think calcium deficiency?

I'd like to come up with a list of things to check for and have her bloodwork done again, so please keep the suggestions coming. I sure would love to see her happy and healthy again.

As for her teeth, she has a history of tooth issues so she is actually one that is checked every 3 months. There were some points to take care of in Jan and those were knocked off. I should add that I've tried feeding her basically a mush - just in case the teeth were the problem but she wouldn't touch it.

It's like she tries this, tries that, tries some hay, goes back and tries the feed, walks away, stands for a bit then tries it again. Just nibbles here and there. Not at all like a normal horse would eat if there was a bucket of grain in front of them.


----------



## Ridgerunner (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree with Mydaddysjag. I'd get her on Gastroguard ASAP. It sounds like she wants to eat, but when she does, it hurts, so she stops. Bless her heart, I sure hope she gets better soon! I know you're doing everything you can to help her. Good luck with her!

Melba


----------



## ljc (Mar 10, 2010)

First of all, I'm holding good thoughts for you. I know how you are feeling.

My 22-year-old TB gelding nearly died last month from a temporary attack of anorexia. His was caused by my starting him on pergolide (for Cushings). Pergolide can cause horses to go off their feed but Benjamin took it to the extreme and refused to eat anything. He ended up being rushed to the hospital with kidney failure - after a few days of not eating, he had become dehydrated and his kidneys were no longer working. The bloodwork (a basic CBC panel) showed this, so I'm guessing your mare doesn't have kidney problems or it would have shown up. Benjamin's calcium levels were sky-high, by the way. A week of IVs flushed everything out and he came home. Still didn't want to eat but finally he did. I started him on a ten-day dose of Gastroguard because the vet figured after a few days of not eating, the acids in his stomach might be bothering him.

When he didn't want to eat, I couldn't get him to touch anything - no hay, no grains, no sweet feeds, etc. I think i bought every type of feed known to the horse world. But his refusal to eat wasn't about a specific food, basically nothing tasted good (extrapolating from what happens to people who have kidney failure).

You might want to have your vet run the bloodwork again and double check kidney functions. And maybe a course of IV's might help your mare, as well, if she's getting dehydrated. I would definitely try the ulcer medicine, too.

Good luck!!!!


----------



## ~Amanda~ (Mar 10, 2010)

Poor girl. I don't have any new ideas to offer, but I hope you figure it out and get her feeling well and happy again.


----------



## Farina (Mar 10, 2010)

Last winter our 36-year old gelding refuesed to eat too. We have treated him with Vitamin B12, B6 and B1 injections plus less often Selenium injections (but I don't know if there is in the US a Selenium deficency also). It works also great for foals too. They start eating right now.

Last spring he was running to me for dinner and three months later he won't stand up and he was euthanized... It was very sad we have had very nice times. He was our first mini. So sometimes they just tell us they are ready to go...

I will hope for the best for you both, bless you.


----------



## Maxi'sMinis (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree with ulcer meds. I had 2 vets looking at a colt that was lethargic, pot bellied and a bit thin. I had wormed, done teeth, blood work, all kinds of feed. Neither vet considered ulcers even with my insistence after reading about ulcers in minis on LB. I went ahead an put my boy on ulcer meds and in 30 days he was putting on weight, running, kicking and bucking. As many have said I think minis are prone to ulcers from stress.


----------



## Margaret (Mar 10, 2010)

So Sorry this is happening to you.

Maybe you can incorperate a small amount of Alfalfa shake to her feed?

And by shake I mean just the flaky part, not the stem.. Ive yet to see a horse refuse that ..

Start small and _slowly increase the amount _so that she adjusts to it.

Maybe this will help bring her weight back.

I was also wondering if she might have worms..


----------



## bonloubri (Mar 10, 2010)

If all else fails, I recommend getting in touch with Carl Mitz and have her teeth thoroughly checked. Carl was at a clinic I attended recently and I think he said he will be going to the St Louis area in April. There was a young horse there that was really underweight and the owner said he ate anything and everything. I asked Carl if the horse was eating so well, how could he be so underweight. Carl answered that even though he was eating if the food was not being chewed it would just go on through with no benefit to the horse.


----------



## happy appy (Mar 10, 2010)

I strongly urge you to get her on ulcer meds too! You will notice a difference in a week. I had a full size horse come in as a rescue and nothing we did put weight on him and he would only pick at food. After a week on ulcer meds, he started eating anything we put in front of him and gaining weight. The vet put him on a diet of high protien feed with a top dressing of veggie oil 3 times a day. He was looking good in less than 2 months.


----------



## wcr (Mar 10, 2010)

You have had the vet out several times and spent probably a fortune in different feeds and don't have a very long list of options and aren't getting anywhere. At this point I would be throwing that horse in a trailer and heading to either a vet college or respected vet hospital where they can examine her and do a more thorough workup.


----------



## Becky (Mar 10, 2010)

I agree with starting ulcer meds immediately. It won't hurt and hopefully will help. Be aggressive with it. Gastro or Ulcer Guard daily, ranitidine 3 X day plus sucralfate 2 X day. Sure hope something helps!


----------



## Genie (Mar 10, 2010)

I haven't read all the replies but I am going to throw out the thought "Bots".

The vet has likely checked for this but I had a mare going that way and turned out she had a bad case of Bots.


----------



## Charlotte (Mar 10, 2010)

Oh Parmela, that is to tough, watching a loved one go down like that. It sounds like you've covered all the bases except ulcers and I'm 100% behind Becky's recommendation.



> I agree with starting ulcer meds immediately. It won't hurt and hopefully will help. Be aggressive with it. Gastro or Ulcer Guard daily, ranitidine 3 X day plus sucralfate 2 X day. Sure hope something helps!


Also with the few REALLY bad ones I've had, *once they are getting all the ulcer meds*, I give as small a dose of banamine as I can to make the horse feel a little better and eat! Banamine is ulcerogenic so you want to wean them off as quickly as possible. I started that at every 12 hours and after about 2 doses tried reducing the amount, then going to once every 24 hours. It's a real juggling game...trying to get them comfortable enough to eat without making the ulcers worse. It takes CLOSE observation and attention to detail.

Also, will your mare eat alfalfa in any form? That is recommended for ulcer horses. Mine would usually nibble at green grass if I could find any. I've even plucked it and fed it leaf by leaf to them.

Remember, with ulcers, grains tend to make them worse untill they are well healed.

Charlotte


----------



## Tenltraining (Mar 10, 2010)

So sorry to hear about your older mare. Its hard to see them having problems, I know. I think too perhaps the gastroguard would be worth a try. Also has she been checked for tapeworms? LIver functions?

It sounds like youve been keeping up well with the dental work so thats good. I hope you can find something to help her eat more and get back some of her old bloom and vigor. Good luck on her!


----------



## Becky (Mar 10, 2010)

> LIver functions?


I also agree with Laura on this, too. If she's not eating, hyperlipemia becomes a real concern and needs aggressive, immediate treatment.


----------



## Marty (Mar 10, 2010)

You are getting quite a list here Parm, so I"ll add to it what I would do and things that would be on my list because she is in pain somewhere:

This would be my last ditch effort before I brought her to the hospital:

1. Ulcers Ulcers Ulcers

Besides Gastroguard or Ulcerguard, You can also use 2 tabs of Tagamet per day. Its a lot cheaper and has worked for me. Also Pepto as a jump start for a couple of days does not hurt.

2. Start dosing Probios daily.

3. Try hand feeding her Dannon or Yoplait Yogurt from a spoon for another jump start

4. Pain, Pain, Pain........I'd be doing something for pain. Not possitive anymore if you can be dosing banamine with an ulcer or not, but maybe someone else on here knows about that.

5. Panacur: Here's a little trick I learned: If she has had teeth issues, and there may be soreness or lesions in the mouth from where points may have caused sores, give her a dose or two of Panacur. Panacur has some amazing healing properties for mouth problems.

6. Is she on supplements for artheritis? I'd be adding that to the list big time. She has not foundered has she?

I had an old horse pass from issues of liver and kidney but it came on him very fast, almost over night. I hope that is not the problem with Cappy.

I think the best idea for you also is to load her up and take her to the hospital if she doesn't turn around soon. I hate that you are going through this. You're in my thoughts.


----------



## bfogg (Mar 10, 2010)

Sending you a p.m.

Bonnie


----------



## joylee123 (Mar 10, 2010)

[SIZE=12pt]Parmela,[/SIZE]

I have an older mare Klasi. I have had such issues keeping weight on her. Last winter she looked like a walking skeleton and I was stuffing her with mashes made of soaked alfalfa cubes, probios and you name it. I had her teeth done by my vet repeatedly and they told me she had wavey mouth so would have to be done every six months to keep weight on, and so she was done every six months. WELL!

Chesa Henkel turned me on to Carl Mitz!!! I had just had Klasi's teeth done TWO MONTHS before Carl came out. You would not believe what he pulled out of her mouth!!! She looks like a completely different mare now. Fat and sassy, enjoys her food, eats what everyone else does and is now healthy, happy and in foal.

I don't know if that is whats up with your girl, I just thought I'd share my experience.

Best wishes,

Joy


----------



## Ellen (Mar 10, 2010)

I am so sorry. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

I would suspect ulcers. I guess with all that is going on and the fact she is not eating if she doesn't have them, she will. I agree with the ulcergaurd, but double the dose. By the advice of my vet , "One dose is to prevent, a double is to heal." Secondly I would reccomend GUT. Has the probis, but also an Ulcer prevenative. I agree with Sucralifate and Ritadine, too.

I would worry about worms, Hyperlympia....But with the vet being there and drawing a complete panel, might he have noticed changes? Does anyone know? I know with a terrible ulcer, one that bleeds, it can be seen in bloodwork as can a bad case of worms as it depletes the host of so much. Ugh! I am no help.

One other reccomendation. My vet always reccomends a combo of Sr, and Youth, for this situation and electrolytes.

Now I am rambling. But just trying to think thru everything I have heard him say.


----------



## Carolyn R (Mar 10, 2010)

Parmela, I am sending you a PM


----------



## Tatonkas Dream (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't have any advice that hasn't been covered but just wanted you to know your in my thoughts and prayers for healing for your little girl

Anyone on here knows how very much you



your four footed children.

Hugs!

Christina


----------



## Mominis (Mar 10, 2010)

Gosh, so sorry to hear about your mare! It's just awful and so stressful on you, I'm sure. I think you've gotten a lot of great suggestions here. I'd like to toss one more into the ring, how about trying a little Probios and a B12 injection. That has worked for me in the past when I have one go off their feed. You will be in my prayers and I wish you the best of luck with her.


----------



## wingnut (Mar 10, 2010)

I just wanted to offer up some {{{{hugs and prayers}}}}. Our hardkeeper girl has had me in tears too trying to figure out how to put and keep weight on her. Her issue ultimately was her mouth/teeth and we're hopeful that we've finally gotten it figured out. I hope you find an answer for her soon!


----------



## ruffian (Mar 10, 2010)

I have a mare doing the same thing. My vet did blood work, I had her teeth done, super dewormed, and a full tub of ulcerguard. Vet thinks now it's Pancreatic Enzymatic deficiency. She can't digest her food. Blood test will not show this. Is there undigested food in her manure? Is it soft? Not necessarily runny, but not firm balls. The only test to prove is an "in and out", which typically would need to be done at a vet hospital. He suggested pelleted feed, feeding 4 times a day. Nutrena Safeguard or Life guard with a little Calf Manna added, about 1/2 c per feeding.

My mare is looking a bit better on the pelleted extra feed. I know what you are going through, I wish you and your mare all the best. Good luck.


----------



## StarRidgeAcres (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm SO appreciative of all the support and prayers and so is Cappy. My mind is so full right now I probably am not going to say everything I hoped to or answer all the questions that have been asked. But here is where we are right now.

The vet just left. Did the most thorough physical exam that Cappy's had during this experience. I really felt like she took the time to touch her from inside her mouth, all of her joints, a rectal and everything in between. She listened for a long time all over her core on both sides. Her resperations were about 48 which is considerably higher than for a normal horse, not in pain and not battling something. She has a lot of gas for a horse that isn't eating very well. She is not dehydrated at this point. Her breaths sound normal coming into her nose and through her tracea (sp?) but there is very little sound then into her lungs. Almost as if she's not breathing very deeply or deeply enough. Vet gave her a handful of a product call Chops and she ate it. It is a chopped alfalfa/orchard grass mix. She left me with some sample bags and I found a place to get it tomorrow. We are running a full CBC/blood workup, started her on gastroguard and gave her iv banamine. We are also going to try an injectible for her joint pain as she will not eat any feed that has any supplement on it or in it. Adequin I believe it's called. And I'm to try and sneak some corn oil into her feed, but knowing Cappy, she'll sense it and not eat it, but I'll try anything at this point.

The vet had me half-dose the gastroguard but I think i'm actually going to increase it as I don't believe it will hurt her and it may help. Should have bloodwork back by 9am tomorrow.

I'm sure I've left important details out, but again my mind is so full right now.

Thank you all so very much - for the resonses here, the PMs and the emails. And bless you Bonnie


----------



## barnbum (Mar 10, 2010)

Just wanted you to know, I'm thinking about you and Cappy. Prayers added for the vet to find the issue and know exactly what to do.

Hang in there--you fabulous horse mama.


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 10, 2010)

Oh, Parmela, my heart goes out to you. How well I know the agony of a horse that won't eat!





A couple of years ago my 30+ year old Arab, Spyderman, suddenly went completely off his feed for the first time in his life and wouldn't touch his beet pulp/hay pellet/senior feed mush. He wanted hay but couldn't chew it enough to swallow it and when I brought his real food in he would sniff it and then look around pathetically as if I'd tricked him and given a hungry horse something that wasn't edible. This went on for a week in cold snowy weather and I finally called the vet back out to put him down as he was literally starving to death with food right in front of him and without the meds he gets in his feed his medical conditions were getting out of control. His bloodwork from earlier in the week had been totally normal, not a thing out of place, and he seemed sound. Long story short it turned out he had a good case of cellulitis going in his neck and although he would put his head down for hay it hurt him so much to do so that it put him off his big bucket of feed and eventually he just lost his appetite entirely. The vet tubed him instead of euthanizing him and we spent the next three days hand-feeding him his meds on a small amount of mush in a mini-sized bucket held at head-height while his appetite slowly increased. He was fine in a week but now I know when he suddenly goes off his food to immediately give him Bute in a small raised bucket and wait for it to kick in before trying larger meals.

Kody also drives me insane. This horse has the most delicate stomach in the world and goes off his hay when he's got ulcers, his grain when he's got allergies, and everything for no reason at all.



This spring he went off everything all at once and ulcer meds were not helping. He acted as if it all tasted bad or wasn't to his liking and eventually he stopped even eating grass. When he lost 20lbs in a few days I panicked and ran him to the hospital where they drew blood, said he was fine and told me to bring him back in three days if he hadn't started eating.



I was like "Excuse me?!?" The only thing that visit got me (besides frustrated) was the discovery that he would eat alfalfa when he wouldn't touch anything else. We got him started eating again using that and he slowly picked up but still isn't eating his grain as I'd like him to although he's otherwise normal.

Even my baby Turbo has developed a tendency to get picky about his hay and it's driving me crazy. :arg!

As far as suggestions I think you've had some good ones. Try the ulcer meds as they can't hurt and usually help. Once she's on the ulcer meds, give her some pain meds as Charlotte described below. Chronic pain can sap a horse's appetite and make them simply give up as both my boys did. For the same reason get her on some good joint supplements right away. Our older Arab we lost a few years ago got those same stiff front knees that kept him from laying down and he got a ton of relief from Adequan injections followed by oral Hyaluronic Acid. She's more than old enough for them and it sounds like she needs them. Other than that, hand-graze her, love her, and talk to her. Let her know how important it is to you that she eat and that if she has more involved issues you'll help her go if that's what she needs. It hurts terribly but it's the most loving thing we can do...Spyder was ready, I didn't listen, and I regret it to this day as life is much harder for him now.

My prayers are with you and your mare. Nothing makes a person feel quite so helpless as the situation you describe.





Leia



Charlotte said:


> Oh Parmela, that is to tough, watching a loved one go down like that. It sounds like you've covered all the bases except ulcers and I'm 100% behind Becky's recommendation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## valshingle (Mar 10, 2010)

I mentioned your mare to my vet today. She mentioned something I hadn't even thought of and I don't think anyone mentioned. Did she have a good exam after she aborted? She could have a uterine infection. She may need culturing, flushing, infusing, etc.

Anyway, it's a thought.


----------



## StarRidgeAcres (Mar 11, 2010)

valshingle said:


> I mentioned your mare to my vet today. She mentioned something I hadn't even thought of and I don't think anyone mentioned. Did she have a good exam after she aborted? She could have a uterine infection. She may need culturing, flushing, infusing, etc.
> Anyway, it's a thought.



Very good question! She had an antibiotic flush twice afterward. Once on the day of and the once the next day. But I don't know that means it's still not possible. I will ask tomorrow when I get the results if for sure an infection would be showing itself in the bloodwork and if not then treat for it just in case.

Thanks!


----------



## bfogg (Mar 11, 2010)

I was glad I could help!





Hugs

Bonnie


----------



## Marty (Mar 11, 2010)

You sure are covering all your bases.

I've used Adequan before on a dead lame Quarter Horse of mine who had a bad accident that I never thought we would ever be able to ride again. It was like a miracle. She was back up and riding in the ring in a few months good as new.


----------



## Erica (Mar 11, 2010)

I haven't read through the responses so someone may have already mentioned this.....and right now I can't remember the name of the "shot".....but for my old mare who is prone to choke, after she chokes she won't eat for days (and one year was nuring a foal) but my vet as a just last resort as otherwise she had a clean bill of health gave her a shot of some sort of immune booster that in turns really seems to boost appetite.

It was a prescription like "vaccine" type of shot....if someone said the name I'd know it, but maybe it will come to me in a few.....she's had it twice and it did make her bounce back out of a little funky stage she was having not eating well.


----------



## ThreeCFarm (Mar 11, 2010)

Erica said:


> I haven't read through the responses so someone may have already mentioned this.....and right now I can't remember the name of the "shot".....but for my old mare who is prone to choke, after she chokes she won't eat for days (and one year was nuring a foal) but my vet as a just last resort as otherwise she had a clean bill of health gave her a shot of some sort of immune booster that in turns really seems to boost appetite. It was a prescription like "vaccine" type of shot....if someone said the name I'd know it, but maybe it will come to me in a few.....she's had it twice and it did make her bounce back out of a little funky stage she was having not eating well.


Is it given IV? What about EqStim?


----------



## StarRidgeAcres (Mar 11, 2010)

First, I want to thank everyone again for all the terrific suggestions (whether posted here or via PM or email); they are were very helpful and a great learning experience for us all. I sure had a LONG list by the time the vet came out!



Bless you all!





Now for the news I was dreading. The bloodwork results came back. Her kidney, liver an calcium numbers were all well within normal range at this time. Potassium is low, but not terribly, but expected for a horse that isn't eating. Her white cell count is slightly low, but not alarming. However her red cell count, which was on the low side of normal in January is now much lower. It was 36 in Jan and is now 27. The diagnosis is "anemia of chronic disease" which basically means there is something going on in her - her belly, lungs, something, that is very wrong. The things I could do to attempt to find out what it is are belly tap, ultrasound of the abdomen, xrays, etc.

After speaking with my vet about her prognosis and taking to heart Bonnie's reminder to me of destiny, I have decided not to put Cappy through the trailer ride to the hospital and all the poking and proding involved in running these tests. I do not believe in my heart the outcome will be any different if I know the specific cause. At this time I am going to keep her on the gastrogard and also on daily banamine for pain. I am fully aware of the damage keeping her on banamine can do to her stomach however I believe it is warranted in this case as my only goal at this time is to keep her as comfortable as possible. I do believe Cappy has days and not weeks left in this life. The only other thing I am going to do is pick up a steriod shot this afternoon and give her that. It may jumpstart her appetite some as many of you suggested and may make her more comfortable.

Thanks again for all the suggestions, prayers and well wishes. It means the world to me. Cappy is one of those special mares that just steals your heart with her gorgeous eyes and a personality that makes you say yes to anything she wants.


----------



## Sandee (Mar 11, 2010)

So sorry that things are not turning around for your mare. I guess the best thing, if you can call anything best now, is to remember that "letting go" is probably harder on those "left behind" than those that are "going". You've taken such good care of her and that's something to be proud of.


----------



## minie812 (Mar 11, 2010)

Parmela, All I can say is I wish Cappy PEACE and no pain


----------



## Carolyn R (Mar 11, 2010)

Whichever way things go, I pray the outcome occurs in a swift manor. She is in excellant hands regardless of the outcome.

Best wishes,


----------



## Erica (Mar 11, 2010)

Yep Stephanie.....I think it was EquiStim.....not 100%, but 98% sure that's right. Not sure if it would work for you mare Parmela, but it has worked well on mine the two times I needed her to boost back out of a rut; and b-12complexes werent' doing the trick.


----------



## Maxi'sMinis (Mar 11, 2010)

Parmela I'm so sorry your girl Cappy is not doing any better, it makes it so hard when they are still a young 21 yrs. I'm sending prayers to help your grieving heart and to give you the strength to do what is needed for the comfort and well being of your girl.

God bless.


----------



## joylee123 (Mar 11, 2010)

[SIZE=12pt]Parmela, [/SIZE]

I am sorry things aren't going better for you and your special little girl. My thoughts and prayers are being sent your way.

Hugs,

Joy



ray


----------



## wildoak (Mar 11, 2010)

Parmela,

I'm so sorry she's not improving...I know too what it's like to have an older one with issues. {{Hugs}} to you.

Jan


----------



## HGFarm (Mar 11, 2010)

Oh Parmela,

This is not what I had hoped to hear either........I am so sorry and still with no certain answer. I would do what you are doing.. I think it is a good decision at this point. Give your little Cappy lots of hugs and who knows, maybe the meds you are doing will help... it's worth a try!! Hugs to you too.


----------



## ShaunaL (Mar 11, 2010)

Parmela, I am so sorry to hear this news



My heart is with you and Cappy.


----------



## RockRiverTiff (Mar 11, 2010)

Parmela I am so so sorry that Cappy's prognosis was not an optimistic one. I hope that regardless of how much longer she is with you her final time with you is peaceful and loving. I also wanted to thank you for starting this thread. I've been going through something similar with one of our 20-somethings, and his prognosis isn't good either, but with several other teenagers on the farm I am hopeful that in the future some of this advice will pay off. So thank you too to everyone that's contributed - I now have a nice long senior checklist for future vet visits.


----------



## RobinRTrueJoy (Mar 11, 2010)

I wish for both of you that this could be fixed.

I would keep the full doses of gastrogard going, especially if you are using a steroid. Steroids can really bring on an ulcer.

I think the probiotics and equistim are good ideas.

Perhaps some maple syrup or molasess several times a day for holding up her blood sugars?

The anemia can certainly be a sign of an ulcer. She might be just slightly bleeding and you would not see it.

Carafate is something worth a try ALONG with the gastrogard. Give a human dose, you can get the vet to write it and have it filled at the pharmacy. It is important in treating ulcers because it puts a protective healing almost gel over the ulcer area so that stomach acid can't keep eroding it. It goes hand in hand with the omeprazole(gastrogard)It must be given for 6-8 weeks. Continue the gastrogard all the while to decrease the production of acid.

Also, you can try syringe feeding her vanilla yogurt, good calories, good calcium and good probiotics. My horses actually like it.

Robin


----------



## barnbum (Mar 11, 2010)

Rats. She'll appreciate the attention and the loving--no matter how many days she has left. She'll leave with a full heart and that's always a good ending.


----------



## Miniv (Mar 11, 2010)

barnbum said:


> Rats. She'll appreciate the attention and the loving--no matter how many days she has left. She'll leave with a full heart and that's always a good ending.



I fully agree with Karla......"Rats" is right. What a bittersweet thing. Time to love and spoil and snuggle, but knowing what the outcome is......


----------



## targetsmom (Mar 11, 2010)

Oh Parmela- I don't know how I missed this, but I just saw this thread now. I am so sorry to hear about what you and Cappy are going through. Hugs to you both. I wonder if Stomach Soother would help her???? Don't think it could hurt anyway.


----------



## Allure Ranch (Mar 11, 2010)

_[SIZE=12pt]I'm so sorry to hear about "Cappy". [/SIZE]_

She's a beautiful little mare and my prayers are with you and her.


----------



## Reble (Mar 11, 2010)

Thinking of you and Cabby in your time of need


----------



## rcfarm (Mar 11, 2010)

I am so sorry to read about your mare. Sending hugs to you and Cappy.


----------



## rockin r (Mar 11, 2010)

rayers for a miracle for Cappy...This is so frustrating when you have sooo many questions and so few answers...


----------



## ljc (Mar 12, 2010)

You are in my prayers.


----------



## StarRidgeAcres (Mar 12, 2010)

I just can't stop saying thank you enough to all the responses and the wonderful outpouring of support I've gotten here, in emails, calls, etc. I really appreciate the help sorting through this especially since it's so hard emotionally and sometimes I don't think I'm thinking clearly about it.

I'm very surprised but pleased to say that Cappy is still with me at this time. I honestly didn't expect she would be and don't know that she still will be tomorrow, but right now she is and that's a good thing...as long as she's not suffering and when I think she's gotten to that point I will make the decision that needs making.

She still has little to no appetite but even one tablespoon of feed every couple of hours is better than nothing at all. She is currently on gastrogard and banamine and had one steroid shot yesterday also. It could be my imagination or wishful thinking but about an hour after her meds she seems a tad perkier. But by nighttime she is usually back down and pretty lethargic. Giving her shots when there is just no meat on her bones just breaks my heart. But she's so calm and sweet and has ALWAYS put up with vet stuff without ever fussing. When she aborted and was flushed and examined and had blood drawn, once it was all over the vet commented "we didn't even put a halter on this mare, did we?" Nope, I just stood next to her with my hand on her neck and she stood there the whole time!





I've ordered some other things I'm going to try to help her. I'm taking advice from several different sources and trying to merge it all and come up with a plan. Some of the things I've got coming and will try alone or in conjunction with each other are:

Prednisolone

Dexamethasone

Stomach Soother

APF

Yogurt

Safflower oil

ADR paste

alfalfa meal (this is different stuff. take a look at it sometime if your feed store has it)

I will be working out the dosages and frequencies as I go. I am NOT suggesting that anyone else try this approach (everything but the kitchen sink) but I figure I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. This is what I am choosing to do and I'm sharing it so maybe someone else can learn, not for any other purpose. If I can just get her to eat, with her spirit she may be strong enough to get paste this low point. Regardless, I do believe the vet is correct and that there is something life-ending going on inside her, I just don't know if it's meant to be right now. If it is, then I will accept that. But if she seems to want to keep trying I am going to try and help her.

Thank you all again.


----------



## triplethorsefarm (Mar 12, 2010)

Pamela

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your sweet Cappy. I pray that God comforts your heart and that you enjoy each moment you have with your sweet girl. Cappy has been blessed to have been loved by such a special person.


----------



## Charlotte (Mar 12, 2010)

Thank goodness she is still with you and trying.

Parmela, I'm really going to suggest that you add Ranitidine and Sucralfate to her Gastroguard. Gastroguard can take as long as a week to show improvement when used by itself.

Ranitidine you can buy OTC at WalMart or any pharmacy (a brand name is Zantac). It works quickly to reduce acid...in as little as 30 minutes, but only lasts 4 or 5 hours so that is the reason to give 3 x day.

sucralfate you can get from your vet as it's RX. It forms a coating over the raw ulcers ... adheres to them...and reduces the pain which the normal digestive acid causes. this and the Ranitidine make the horse more willing to eat.

If you are giving banamine I would for sure recommend using Ranitidine and sucralfate as well as Gastroguard.

Chewing creates more saliva which is basic so helps to neutralize the acid. Grasses and hays (especially alfalfa because of it's calcium content) require quite a bit of chewing.

Cappy and you are in my prayers.

Charlotte


----------



## ShaunaL (Mar 12, 2010)

What fighters both you girls are




I hope Cappy turns around for you


----------



## cowboygirl45 (Mar 12, 2010)

When I was very young, he was actually my first "big" horse, we had the same thing happen. When our vet came out, he opened his mouth, and smelled Red's breath. The vet assumed he had stomach cancer, ran some tests to confirm it, and then Red had to be euthenized. I was so young that I don't remember much of any thing except being upset.

I hate to pass this story along to you, but it may have to be a consideration for your poor girl. Cancer is such a terrible disease and I pray that isn't what you're dealing with.

Keep us posted!


----------



## little lady (Mar 12, 2010)

((HUGS))


----------



## Genie (Mar 12, 2010)

Prayers for Cappy and her family.


----------



## Reble (Mar 12, 2010)

Good News, to hear Cabby is still with you...

God Bless You





I wonder about a Nuti Cal for horses, being there is a paste for dogs, and cats.


----------



## Holly at WhiteTailsMinis (Mar 12, 2010)

Parmela, Im so so sorry to hear about poor Cappy! I wish I had some suggestions to help, but being new in the minis I dont have a clue. I am so glad that she is still with you. You are such a good momma!!! I will pray for Cappy to get better and not have to leave you so soon. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Sorry this is happening to you


----------



## REO (Mar 12, 2010)

My thoughts & prayers are with you both.

{{{{{{Parmela}}}}}} {{{{{{Cappy}}}}}}


----------



## mdegner (Mar 13, 2010)

We recently had something so similar happen with our old girl (21). Sissy has had a bad hip for years and so we brought her into the barn this winter and she was really doing well, weight was great, coat was thick and shiny, etc. We did hooves about a month ago and she HATES having her hooves and it was a bit of wrestling match to get them done. Following that she seemed a bit depressed and perhaps in a bit of pain, so we gave her some banamine for a couple days but she just slowly went off her feed and wouldn't eat. Wasn't colic because she was pooping just fine while still eating. We started giving her gastrogard thinking perhaps it was an ulcer. Her breath was awful and she started licking the ground alot, particularly where we had put salt down to melt some ice. When she developed ulcers on her mouth we got the vet out and they did blood work etc. Kidneys were OK but something appeared to be wrong with her liver (whatever that means. . . our vet isn't terribly up on minis). Could this be hyperlipidemia?

Anyway, the vet had us give her a shot of some antibiotic and continue with the gastrogard. She seemed a little bit better but still wasnt eating very much. Nose at her hay and she'd drink the "slurry" from us putting water in with her senior food, enough so that the diarreha (sp?) turned green but she just wouldn't snap out of it. Last saturday we couldn't even get her to sit up. We left her stall door open and mid-afternoon, she got up, stumbled out of the barn down to the pasture with the girls she'd spent her life with, whinnied at them one time and laid down and died.

Still don't know what the original problem was and though we wanted to get her through this winter, we were seriously considering not letting her go through another MN winter. Didn't want lose her yet--she was our first mini--but I guess it was her time. I wish I understood hyperlipidemia better . . .

Anyway, sorry to hear about what you going through with your mare. . . It's always hard to say goodbye but I, at least, was comforted by the knowledge that Sissy had a great life. . .


----------

