# Horse shows



## leeapachemoon (May 4, 2011)

I have not done a huge amount of showing mostly just local pleasure shows. I was looking on the ADS website for any shows in my area. I found a CDE and looked to see how much the fees were. $95. entry fee, $65 stall fee and $50. for 2 nights camping. Total $210!!! That doesn't even cover gas and food for the weekend! 

 

Does that seem like a lot of money? It is an ADS reconized show but I just feel that is asking a little much!

 

I also found a nice local horse club that has about 6 shows a year they are $75 total. They are 1 day combined driving shows and look like alot of fun. I will most likely do these shows and join their club. I am just really disappointed that I may not be able to do any ADS shows because of cost.

 

Anyone else limiting their showing because of the cost?


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## hobbyhorse23 (May 5, 2011)

Uh, sweetheart? I WISH our CDEs were that cheap!




Ours are at least $125 entry fee, $60-100 per stall, gas, food, and whatever camping arrangements you choose to make for yourself. I spend at least $300 to take two horses to an AMHR show at $24 a class and two $60 stalls. At least I can enter the boys as a pair or tandem at the CDE and get three days of fun for only one entry fee. That's beginning to seem like a bargain after the registry shows.





I wish I lived close enough to the one-day events to be able to go. That would be my preference as it's much lower-key, cheaper and IMO more enjoyable.

Leia


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## leeapachemoon (May 5, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Uh, sweetheart? I WISH our CDEs were that cheap!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would have to stop showing!


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## keely2682 (May 5, 2011)

our cdes around here are similarly expensive.

i go to an occasional ads pleasure or fun show, but the cdes are out of my budget.

even the adts around here are expensive.

i can show breed shows for a lot less money plus get qualified and earn points for my money!

i realize that not everyone is so blessed to be able to show breed shows as cheaply.

our local club (Orange Blossom Miniature Horse Club)listened to its members and made economical shows:

the classes are reasonable, you can show out of the trailer (with no additional fee), and the office fee is minimal.

i can put 1 horse in a class for under $40 ($5 office fee, 1 class at $15 to $30, no stall);

so for $80 for each horse (to do 2 shows with 1 open class each) i can qualify for nationals.


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## Marsha Cassada (May 5, 2011)

The R show I plan to attend next week is $20 per class, with a flat fee of $80 for any classes. I think that is a good idea. I plan to show in only 4 classes, so not a bargain for me, though. Stall fee is $35, plus bedding. I will have a 4 hour drive and hotel.

My concern is leaving my horse alone in the stall all night without me there. I've only done a show that was 1 hour from me before, so it was a day-thing. It worries me to leave him unattended in a strange place, but I guess folks do it all the time.


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## RhineStone (May 5, 2011)

You get what you pay for...

When I was 4-Her, open shows were about $4-6/class. Since they were one day deals, there were no stall fees. The State 4-H show was the expensive one at $20/class and $25 stalls for the weekend. You were limited to four classes (Showmanship, Equitation, Pleasure, and Trail). That was a big deal for my family, and we saved up to go.

When I was in college and we started showing the minis, the breed show classes were $25 each and the stalls were more. I thought that was outrageous. So when we watched our first ADS show, I was sure that they would be more than $25 because they were so much more elegant than the breed shows around here. I was blown away to find out that they were only $10/class! Stalls are about $90-100, but around here they need to rent tents and stalls because the shows are not really on "show grounds". That is one of the "draws" of carriage shows, though, the venues. We show in front of a mansion, an historic pavillion, a grounds specifically designed to host CDEs, etc. We have only been to a few that were just at a fairgrounds and the like.

Now the more I know about ADS and organizing a show, I can tell you that the entry fees don't begin to cover the costs of the show. Sponsorships are always necessary. I happen to know that one show has over 10K just in stall and tent rental. The same show has a budget of over 100K and only makes a couple of K, which is used for start up $ for the next year. The judges aren't just your everyday judges, they are licensed ADS judges who have paid to go to clinics and "jr." judge at shows with their own $$ to get licensed. They usually have to be flown in and put up in a hotel, which adds to the costs. No, judges are not going to do it for free. They need to have their costs covered and maybe make a little on the side. The carriage show ribbons aren't extravangant, but any ribbon at a carriage show is a good ribbon. Division Champion awards are more extravagant.

No, you can't make the classes cheaper and get more entries, because there are only so many daylight hours in the day, and they don't want to run cuts. You can only fit so many entries in an arena at a time, and the cut off for entries according to the Rulebook is 14 (some shows can squeeze 1-2 more in if they have room in the arena and schedule). Obstacle classes and CDEs are all individual goes, so again, there is only so much time in a weekend. I don't know of any carriage shows that are held in a lighted indoor (except the brand new CAA show in KY in July). And CDE marathons have to be outside.

Some newer shows have gone to using _some_ ADS rules, but not getting ADS judges and TDs and running an abbreviated show on one day to save costs that way. However, I can tell you that while those shows have a place, they don't have the "prestige" (I bet there is a better word, but I can't come up with it right now). People will pay to get a more "educated" opinion. I could judge those "lesser" shows, but wouldn't you rather get Craig Kellogg's opinion over mine? Hence why ADS shows command a bigger price. Some of those shows can "evolve" into ADS shows eventually, though. A lot of driving shows have started as non-ADS shows.

This year, I have about $2500 budgeted for six carriage shows and one clinic, not including food that is not included (dinners are sometimes included in awards parties). There are usually about 6 classes in a division, so we are looking at $60 entries and $90 stalls for $150. Another show we go to is $12/class and $100 stalls, but Walnut Hill was $100 for a division of four classes plus the Presentation Pleasure Drive, and $150 stalls. You pay for prestige. We don't bowl, play sports, camp (other than at shows), go to Disney World, etc. Carriage driving is all we do, and we consider the shows our "vacations". The nice thing about carriage driving vs. other horse shows, though, is that once you have your equipment, you don't _have_ to upgrade to "be current" (if you get good equipment to start). My 25 yr. old harness is still appropriate for showing, but my 25 yr. old saddle would be laughed at.

Myrna


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## RhineStone (May 5, 2011)

keely2682 said:


> i can put 1 horse in a class for under $40 ($5 office fee, 1 class at $15 to $30, no stall); so for $80 for each horse (to do 2 shows with 1 open class each) i can qualify for nationals.


That's a lot of money for 5 min. of fame.


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## Sandee (May 5, 2011)

I guess that WI (and this area) is well known for squeezing the buck as many shows in IA. and MN. are geared for us to show "one fee - play all weekend". (For some reason Illinois can't be convinced to do this). Our stalls run around $35 ea. and single class is maybe $12-15 but since $50-65 will get you multiple classes for the weekend, that's the way we go. Then we show our little brains out. My horses are expected to show in 6 to 8 classes over a 2 or 3 day show. It usually runs us around $300-400 for a weekend -not counting food, gas and a place to stay. That's for 2 to 3 horses. But like many others we don't bingo, gamble, drink, smoke, nor bowl; this is what we enjoy so this is where our money goes.

Yes, I'm addicted!


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## leeapachemoon (May 5, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> You get what you pay for...
> 
> When I was 4-Her, open shows were about $4-6/class. Since they were one day deals, there were no stall fees. The State 4-H show was the expensive one at $20/class and $25 stalls for the weekend. You were limited to four classes (Showmanship, Equitation, Pleasure, and Trail). That was a big deal for my family, and we saved up to go.
> 
> ...



You just made me realize that I am not ready for those types of shows. I don't have a nice carriage and I don't know who Craig Kellogg is. So I'll just go to the cheaper shows, get better and save up my money for a nicer carriage.


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## leeapachemoon (May 5, 2011)

keely2682 said:


> our cdes around here are similarly expensive.
> 
> i go to an occasional ads pleasure or fun show, but the cdes are out of my budget.
> 
> ...


OBMHC does have a nice show. I went to watch the last one. I'm not sure if I'm ready to do breed shows. I don't have a show cart and I don't know what class to put my horse in. Western or Country, so hard to decide. I think I'm going to do these shows: STRIDE dressage of ocala


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## RhineStone (May 5, 2011)

leeapachemoon said:


> You just made me realize that I am not ready for those types of shows. I don't have a nice carriage and I don't know who Craig Kellogg is. So I'll just go to the cheaper shows, get better and save up my money for a nicer carriage.


FWIW, it took me TEN YEARS from the first time I saw my first carriage show in 1990 until I had the proper equipment and enough training to show in my first in 2000. I remember driving around the ring, pumping myself up with, "I'm just happy to be here, I'm just happy to be here...," not knowing if/how I was going to place. I got a 3rd and a 4th (and skunked in some classes...



) and I was hooked! Again, once you have the right equipment, it can last you a "lifetime" of showing.

Craig Kellogg was the TD at one of the first carriage shows we went to. Back then, I didn't know who he was, either. He is a judge, trainer, clinician, etc., too. His father was one of the founding members of ADS in 1974, so he has been involved in carriage driving for a LONG time.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (May 6, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> FWIW, it took me TEN YEARS from the first time I saw my first carriage show in 1990 until I had the proper equipment and enough training to show in my first in 2000.


Geez Myrna, now *I'm* intimidated!



Way to make it sound big and scary, why don't you.








Nah, seriously, shows are a lot of money but there's ways to make it cheaper. The only way to learn is to try it, so plunge on in!



I envy you those STRIDE shows, Leeapachemoon, they sound like a blast. I'm glad you aren't being scared away by all our talk of money and equipment as you'd be missing a lot of fun. There's a big difference between what you have to have to be at the top of the game and what you need to get started. Go ahead and get started!

Leia


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## RhineStone (May 6, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Geez Myrna, now *I'm* intimidated!
> 
> 
> 
> Way to make it sound big and scary, why don't you.


Well in 1990, we had a big horse Amish harness, and an old crappy pipe cart which wasn't acceptable for the one carriage pleasure show that was in our state at the time. Wire wheels are only allowed on antique vehicles at the Villa Louis Carriage Classic, and there wasn't a CDE yet in Wisconsin (I didn't even know what one was). With me in college, our family just didn't have the $$$$ to be sticking into a show cart at the time.

In 1992, my mom bought two yearling minis, which obviously needed driving training (being young). My mom's first mini harness was a VERY used $50 harness that in a few years we realized wasn't good enough for what we wanted to do. Same goes for those crappy (and I mean almost rusting) used pipe carts we had. Here is my brother showing in Pony Pleasure Driving at the 1993 State 4-H Horse Expo with said crappy harness and cart. He got Reserve! (We forgot to take out 2 yr. old Patriot's long tail knot before the photo was shot.) (Turnout note: What were we thinking with that shirt?!! At least the gloves were brown.)






So we had to spend additional money on what we really wanted. Then, my mom finally got a used mini show cart in the late-90s when a club member was selling out, but it had pnuematic wheels. So when I finally got a real job, and Chad & I were DINKs (dual income, no kids), I went ahead and bought the wood wheels for that cart so I could finally show in 2000! Here we are after placing in our first class at Villa Louis! We were so green that the nice guy parked next to us had to tell me to take off my running martingale, or we would be eliminated! (The trace is slack because Patriot stepped out of draft.)






I bought our first big horse Meadowbrook in 2000, but it was after the entries were due into Villa, so I just took the mini (above). The big horse Amish harness with chrome fittings really didn't match the brass on the "new" Meadowbrook, either, so in 2002 I found a used Smucker's harness for $600. Of course, there were parts that didn't fit, so I had to spend another $500 to make it work. (Needless to say, we don't buy used harnesses anymore...) So then we finally had the equipment for the big horse in 2003. Here is Spider and I at our first Villa Louis (I won the Pleasure class and was SO excited/blown away that I started crying and had to have my sister drive him back to the trailer!) (That gray coat is terrible with the chestnut horse.)






Chad was "supportive", but it really wasn't his game until I "forced" him to go to a show in 2003 (otherwise, just my mom and sister and I would go). He couldn't stand open horse shows and figured carriage shows were just the same. Then he figured out that he wanted to play, too, and we haven't looked back.

Now we still have to "pick and choose" what we spend our $$ on, and building our own vehicles has helped TREMENDOUSLY. But all of that above is how I have learned to "buy quality, cry once", and keep bantering everyone about it. I remember when I wanted to "play", too, but just didn't have the right equipment! The "just for now" stuff will only get you so far, and then just causes frustration, _especially_ if you don't have a disposable income. The great thing about buying good equipment to start is that once you have it, you have it for life. I am absolutely amazed and blessed when I think of what we have "collected" over the years that we still use. (Of course, a lot of those "collections" have to do with having different-sized horses/ponies that we drive.)

THAT is why it took us ten years from the time my mom saw an article in a farm paper about Villa Louis and we went to spectate until I was able to show in 2000. We have had students that get frustrated with their "hold-ups", like their lack of equipment or training on their horse. I don't have a lot of sympathy when it took me ten years....

Myrna


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## MajorClementine (May 8, 2011)

Props to you all that show your minis. The cost is why I decided that we would just have a few for our pleasure and not show. Maybe my son will want to when he is older but right now I can't justify the cost. But you guys are the ones who keep people interested and striving to produce beautiful animals


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## Taylor Richelle (May 9, 2011)

I only show at little local mini shows so I have it pretty easy (money wise)



It's $7-$9 a class. Entry fee is $20. Plus gas and everything else it takes to get down to the show which is 2 hours away. I would have to stop showing if I was paying what some of you are!!


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## jegray21 (May 9, 2011)

Showing is expensive. Big horses and small horses. Driving seems more expensive because of all the equipment needed. Gas prices are not helping matters at all.


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## Mominis (May 9, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> The "just for now" stuff will only get you so far, and then just causes frustration, _especially_ if you don't have a disposable income. The great thing about buying good equipment to start is that once you have it, you have it for life. I am absolutely amazed and blessed when I think of what we have "collected" over the years that we still use. (Of course, a lot of those "collections" have to do with having different-sized horses/ponies that we drive.)
> 
> Myrna



Painful, but oh so true.


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## Sandee (May 9, 2011)

If you look around sometimes it takes a bit of digging to find the information, but around here we have open shows. They don't give you any points as in AMHR but if you're looking for just fun it's good bang for the buck. For instance, our state has a Horse Council that open/local/4-H can apply to list their shows and if accepted the Council keeps track of wins and has a State Championship Show at the end of summer. The classes are usually around $5 with maybe a n office fee of $5 and the shows are all over the state so they're anywhere from 1 hr to 3 hrs away.

The only problem with this that we would sometimes not have enough minis and have to compete against big horses. If you have a solid driving horse that's well fit (because the footing is not always good for minis) then it was fun. We did this one year but gave it up. My gal won the State Championship for minis & ponies but she also pulled a muscle at one show as the footing was so deep. I just prefer the mini shows but as I said it was cheaper and fun to go the open show route.

We know lots of folks can't go a long way from home and want to save money so our club, SE Wis ( website ), is putting on an open show just for ponies-horses under 38" -don't have to be registered. It's June 4 at the fairgrounds Manitowoc, WI.


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## susanne (May 9, 2011)

While I can AFFORD the breed shows, I can no longer JUSTIFY spending $200+ for one horse and one weekend (plus gas) when that money can go to all our animals.

We're attending a local, non-rated mini show this weekend, where classes are $5 apiece. We show for fun, and we'll have just as much fun for much less $$.

Sadly, Oregon has lost most of our open shows and county fairs. Few of those that remain have driving classes, let alone mini classes. I got a drving class added to our county fair this past year, but I was the only entry....we;ll see what 2011 brings.


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## ClickMini (May 9, 2011)

Susanne, does that mean that you are going to be able to show with your wrist? I hope you are healing that well! And I DO hope we get to see you at some of the CDEs this year! I am signing up for Inavale for the first time, and will be at Happ's, of course. And the VSE DT-T in Sept. That's about it for me this year.


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## hobbyhorse23 (May 9, 2011)

susanne said:


> While I can *AFFORD the breed shows, I can no longer JUSTIFY* spending $200+ for one horse and one weekend (plus gas)


That's really what it comes down to, isn't it?




I could justify it when I was showing one horse in many classes, but now I'm doing twice the work (bodyclipping and conditioning/training two) to only have half the fun (just a few classes each) for much more money (another stall, all the extra equipment) and it simply isn't worth it to me at this point. I'm doing it anyway as I badly miss my friends and Turbo isn't old enough to do CDE's yet (which involves much less bodyclipping and much more fun!



) but I find myself feeling more stressed and getting far less enjoyment out of it than I used to. I would switch to doing open shows in a heartbeat, given the chance, and really miss my county fair.

I'm thinking strongly of moving to Oregon where there are many smaller driving events and recreational get-togethers and making some changes in where I put my dollars.

Leia


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## susanne (May 10, 2011)

ClickMini said:


> Susanne, does that mean that you are going to be able to show with your wrist? I hope you are healing that well! And I DO hope we get to see you at some of the CDEs this year! I am signing up for Inavale for the first time, and will be at Happ's, of course. And the VSE DT-T in Sept. That's about it for me this year.


Amy, I'll be showing halter for sure, although Mingus is a bit porky after not working this spring. Keith will do hunter and possibly halter obstacle, and the driving classes are yet to be determined...I'll see in the next couple of days if I can handle it, otherwise Keith will have to fly by the seat of his pants!

I don't know yet about what I'll be able to do as far as CDEs, since we haven't done any conditioning at all and I won't be officially released until late June. At the very least I'll be at Happs to watch...and the DTT? Sure sounds good!

Leia, if you were to move to northwest Oregon, you'd be centrally located for all Oregon and Washington shows and events. Closer to Northern Cal as well. But that'a hardly news...

It seems that everywhere I speak of driving, I find someone who wants to or used to drive. If we could just pull all of these folks out of the woodwork, we'd be overwhelmed witrh show entries.

And it seems that a state with Barb Lee as a resident should have more recreational drivinf opportunities!


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## ClickMini (May 10, 2011)

No, I am sorry. You cannot have Leia. Rather, I think you and Keith should move up here!





Great news about the wrist! Sounds like it is coming along better than expected!


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## hobbyhorse23 (May 10, 2011)

ClickMini said:


> No, I am sorry. You cannot have Leia. Rather, I think you and Keith should move up here!






Thanks Amy, I feel all warm and fuzzy now! *LOL* (Wait, I think that may be the horse hair.)



susanne said:


> Amy, I'll be showing halter for sure, although Mingus is a bit porky after not working this spring. Keith will do hunter and possibly halter obstacle, and the driving classes are yet to be determined...I'll see in the next couple of days if I can handle it, otherwise Keith will have to fly by the seat of his pants!
> ... At the very least I'll be at Happs to watch...and the DTT? Sure sounds good!


Remember, I volunteered to drive Mingus in a few classes if you wanted. The offer is still very much open! And it would be so cool if you guys could come to the VSE DT-T in September. I'm so far planning for Turbo to make his competitive debut there so it would be awesome to see Mingus and Amy's Sensation take to the field as well.



We could rock training level!

Leia


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## jegray21 (May 10, 2011)

Wait a miniute! Leia if you are moving you must move to Ga..lol..






K that's all



With the big horses we used to trailer together to share gas costs. Not sure if you guys can do that?


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