# Building my own cart



## Foxhaven (Feb 21, 2013)

Is anyone familiar with a kit, or plans, along with sourcing specialty parts, should I decide to build my own cart and/or buggy?

I can weld, paint, build spoked wheels, etc. and am a fair hand at general fabrication. Just thinking it might hold down the cost a bit, be a point of pride, and... well... just fun. Cannot say I've ever built wooden wheels... but I bet they can be had.

Anyone done this?

Also what limitations would there be in using such a vehicle in competition?


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## Marsha Cassada (Feb 21, 2013)

Have you checked the ADS website?

There used to be a member here named Myrna. She and her husband had a business building vehicles. If you searched old driving topics you might be able to locate her and get some constructive information.

If you decide to do the project I hope you'll keep us informed of your progress. You may have customers!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 21, 2013)

Myrna Rhinehart is now the Chair of the American Driving Society Education Committee! =^)

Leia


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## Renee (Feb 21, 2013)

I really miss Myrnas' discussions and posts


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## Marsha Cassada (Feb 21, 2013)

Renee said:


> I really miss Myrnas' discussions and posts


Me, too. She was way over my head most of the time but she was a knowledgable and enthusiastic contributor. It isn't surprising that she is on the education committee of ADS.


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## littlebigspots (Feb 21, 2013)

I came across this before. It is a local business to me. http://buggy.com/blueprint.html


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## horsenarounnd (Feb 21, 2013)

There is a website you can check out, Buggy Bob's. This is a company in Shelbyville, TN that sells many varieties of carts and carriages. They are pretty expensive, but you can look at what they offer, and you can buy kits and also most parts from them. Building a cart isn't difficult, except for the wheels, and those you can buy and have shipped to you if you don't have anywhere close by that you can get them from.

You will probably want to buy the wheels, shafts, and a few other bent wood parts as those parts are all bent to shape with steam and pressure and you need special equipment to do the bending and shaping. As I said, all available, if you can find them. We get our parts from Amish buggy makers, but they generally don't do much on line. They will ship parts to you if you can find them.

A good friend of mine here in Wisconsin builds carts, and has built several for me. I actually have one in my basement right now, he built all the components (or we bought them) and I am in the process of doing the finish work, sanding, staining, varnish/clearcoat etc. I wish you were closer to WI, as I am doing this cart for sale, and would happily sell it cheap to someone who wanted to do the finishing themselves.

It is very rewarding to be able to see a cart you built yourself in a competition, and particularly if it does well for you. We use our wood wheeled carts in all types of competitions. We primarily show in ADS shows, which require wood wheels in most cases, but we've shown in mini breed shows with them and usually are the only wood wheels in the class. We usually place well, but do have a little trouble sometimes with some arenas if they are too soft and deep sand. ADS shows usually run on grass, so the narrow wheels don't cut in. We did build one fine harness cart with interchangeable wheels, wood for the carriage shows and pneumatic bicycle type wheels for the soft arenas. Jerald used to offer both types interchangable on their carts but I recently was told they no longer offer wood as they were too expensive.

Spend some time on line, and see what you can find, its out there, but not easy to find and the shipping is expensive. Wheels are heavy, and the shafts alone are anywhere from 4 to 8 feet long, so good luck.

If you want to send me a personal email, I may be able to point you in the right direction. [email protected]


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## Foxhaven (Feb 22, 2013)

Great info! Thanks, all! We actually have a dog show this fall in Penn so that might make an interesting side trip, to see what is in the area.

Of course... I need to be careful to not 'put the cart before the horse'... gotta train Legend to drive after all. ;-)

Good to plan ahead.


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## susanne (Feb 22, 2013)

You might be interested in a group on Facebook, Horse Cart Conversion or Building, http://www.facebook.com/groups/282656115143658/ While the focus is more or less on conversion, you'll find info and discussions of other people's work that will help and/or inspire you.


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## Jules (Feb 22, 2013)

We just bought steel wheels and two axles for our to-be-homemade 4 wheel carriage, thanks for the link Suzanne, have requested to join.


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## Foxhaven (Feb 25, 2013)

OK... warning, complete NOOB observations here...

Interesting observations as I look at the construction of most of the carts. Easy entry would be hardest to build in a lightweight but durable configuration.

This is a used horse sized cart in my area for $350:






A standard show cart would be easiest... it pretty much centers around the shafts, so a shaft and singletree kit would get me most of the way there. That would sure sit low though, sized for a mini. Looks like no suspension, so that might be a bit rough on trails. I am seeing, essentially, radial laced bicycle wheels often with quick release (great idea and easy to source) on show carts. Just a note (former bicycle mechanic here, a long time ago): I wonder why 3-cross spoke patterns are not used? Makes a stronger wheel with a bit more flex. While rigid wheels are desirable in bicycles, in carts I would not think so. Dunno.

This easy entry cart seems simple to build and is quite attractive:

http://buggybobs.com/carts/pgs/ca202.html






Dunno about the suspension... single leaf quarter eliptical rear fixed mount? I think I'd prefer a different stronger arrangement if I were to go on trails, but it might be fine. I will have to contact him on shaft kits, looks like he has a horse sized kit for 2 bills but it wouldn't take long to exceed the price of a used Jerald EE at that rate, adding wheels.

Speaking of wheels, mine are turning... LOL


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## Foxhaven (Feb 25, 2013)

Here is a rather basic cart local to me, priced a bit high for what it is:






Seems like it would sit too tall but it is advertised as a mini horse cart. It would be very easy to build with thinwall tubing and could be dressed up with poplar in place of metal. Again, my concerns would be ride, and balance. Not sure what appropriate loaded shaft weight should be to handle properly but be easy on the horse? I would guess, around 50 lbs? Does anyone know?

*EDIT* Oops... OK, not anywhere near 50 lbs. More like 10 max, from a couple of cart builders I've talked to.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 25, 2013)

5lbs is the number I most often hear quoted. Ideally they'd float at perfect zero balance when the driver is in the cart but that's hard to do. The horse-sized cart you show probably has an elliptical spring (leaf spring?) running from side to side under the seat. I know my mini cart does.

Leia


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## circlesinthesand (Feb 26, 2013)

Foxhaven said:


> Here is a rather basic cart local to me, priced a bit high for what it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not that I have a clue about building carts, but I do like reading about those who make their own just because I find construction fascinating. Maybe some else knows, but I wouldn't think too tall would be an issue, it's better to be high in some cases. For example, I know in drafts too SHORT is an issue because you end up staring at the tail and unable to see where you're going , but in mini's I wouldn't think you could even get too short with dragging on the ground.


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## dangerranger (Mar 25, 2013)

Heres two Ive built. The seats are off being upolstered, but it gives you a better look at the axle arangement. These are both for B minis, So I set them up to be adjustable for hight, the axles will move forward or back for gross balance adjustment. The seats also move for fine adjustment. Then I can lean to make the shafts float.
















Both of these are made from light tubing. The yellow one is about 7 years old, and has held up very well. The run about was only used one season. about the only thing I dont like about them is the wheels. They are from Harbor Freight and have non adjustable spokes. If they get bent or loose there is no way to true them. DR


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 25, 2013)

I am green with envy DR!!


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## dangerranger (Mar 26, 2013)

rabbitsfizz said:


> I am green with envy DR!!


Thanks, These are very easy to build. Im getting ready to retire, and may build some more then. DR


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## Foxhaven (Mar 27, 2013)

Those look really great. Tell me more about the tubing? It looks like EMT (conduit) with some welding, some bolt together assembly - I am a fair hand at MIG welding, and brazing too for that matter. Where are you sourcing it? 'Twould make the bends a piece of cake. I also have a hydraulic pipe bender so that is not an issue really.

The HF wheels look VERY similar to some wheels I see in my new Fairview catalog, except the Fairview ones are advertised as made in USA.

I might have to chat with some local high end bicycle shops (or online maybe) to source hubs and rims; once spoke length is determined building a wheel is not that hard for me. Some VERY light, yet strong, wheels can be built with the savings in labor. There are bicycle flat solutions that work extremely well too (kevlar tires, liners, thorn resist tubes, Slime... go with all and it's no flat, yet a nice ride).

I have to say though, for aesthetics I am a sucker for wood wheels...

The breeder we got our horses from has a retired cart in rough but usable condition, might make a good starting point. Every time I talk with them I walk away realizing what great people they are... active in AMHA leadership. Speaks well of the organization.


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## Foxhaven (Mar 27, 2013)

Interesting, can't find Harbor Freight cart wheels, but did find some interesting cart wheels on Amazon that look decent and are inexpensive. Some spoked wheels with nippled spokes, apparently variable quality but not too bad.


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## dangerranger (Mar 28, 2013)

Foxhaven said:


> Interesting, can't find Harbor Freight cart wheels, but did find some interesting cart wheels on Amazon that look decent and are inexpensive. Some spoked wheels with nippled spokes, apparently variable quality but not too bad.


Harbor Freight must be out, Mine are like these, but I only paid $25 or less per wheel.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&catalogId=11652&langId=-1&pageSize=12&beginIndex=0&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&showResultsPage=true&pageView=image&N=0&Ntt=SPOKED%20WHEEL&searchTerm=SPOKED%20WHEEL&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ns=P-SalesRank|1

These too are not adjustable. DR

These are made from EMT scraps. other than the wheels and shafts I found all the parts in trash bins. I had to buy a couple of pieces to get the shafts long and straight. DR


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## susanne (Mar 28, 2013)

Don't forget that bicycle wheels are NOT appropriate for carts, as they are not designed for lateral load. A bicycle puts the weight and stress directly over the wheel, whereas a cart (with an axle) places the weight on the axle, thus creating the lateral stress. 

CTM Products has heavy duty wheels, 20" on their cart parts page, 24" on cart accessories, with a wide hub and thick spokes (I don't know if they're adjustable or not), as well as other parts that may prove simpler than fabricating.


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## dangerranger (Mar 28, 2013)

From the pics they look like the same type of wheel.

http://www.ctmproducts.com/CartAccessories/CartsAccessories.htm

I have a friend who founded the "Drive By Shooters Assocation". Its an off shoot of Cowboy Mounted Action Shooting. He uses motorcycle wheels for strength. nothing else has held up. DR

Cowboy Mounted action Shooting



Cart shooting is on page 32 if you are intrested!

http://www.sassnet.com/pages/Handbook-Version%207.pdf


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## susanne (Mar 29, 2013)

I'm not saying the CTM wheels are different from or better than the Harbor Freight wheels -- who knows, that may be their source. I'm only saying that bicycle wheels are not the same as cart wheels, so don't buy from a bicycle shop (unless they just happen by some fluke to sell cart wheels).


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## Foxhaven (Mar 29, 2013)

Suzanne it really depends on how you build the wheel... lacing pattern, spoke gauge, rim weight, hub width... agreed that off the shelf kid's bike wheels should be treated with caution!


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## Carriage (Mar 30, 2013)

Might as well kill another thread by responding......

Both Fox and Miss Susanne are correct. Yes everything depends on how you build the wheel. However Miss Susanne's comments re. lat. loading are of supreme importance. In carts, lateral loading is THE big fat hairy issue. Near any wheel can handle vert. loading. Few can handle lateral loading because they are not built for that. Choosing and matching the correct components to adequately address this given is very important.

Hey, notice the yellow rig with multiple wheel call-outs, looked to be about 2" apart.... pretty cool.

Bb


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 30, 2013)

I agree about the wheels- I was told all this by the bike shop I approached- very nice, very helpful man - told me quite honestly that it would be dangerous to use bicycle wheels- and he had them for sale so how honest is that?- I have also seen for myself what can happen when a cart with the incorrect wheels turns a corner too fast and turns over, putting the pressure on the wheels- they just crumple! It was amazing and, luckily, there was no-one in the cart. We were not even going fast. I was able to salvage the situation as I was already on the ground, but it could have been SO nasty.


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## horsenarounnd (Mar 30, 2013)

There's little arguement that the weakest part of a cart is the wheels if you're using spoke wheels with pnuematic tires. Good ones are hard to find, and not cheap anymore. I was using one of my carts for therapeutic driving some time ago, and that required that an experienced drive had to be on the cart along with the student. I was using a cart that was set up with a straight axle 3/4" in diameter. I was able to replace the original axle with a longer one, and put 2 wheels on each end. My own "Dually" It wasen't pretty, but it worked very well. You had to stay on a fairly firm surface, but it did do the job I needed it to do.


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## dangerranger (Mar 30, 2013)

The Harbor Freight wheels are at least 1" wider in the hub, and have thicker spokes but the spokes are not adjustable. They are definately better than Bicycle wheels but not by a lot. I have yet to "Taco" one but I dont work them as hard as a CDE cart would in the obsticles. If I could find a good spoked rim for pneumatic tires Id be willing to pay more. I just havent found them yet. I have even thought of making some from sheet aluminum. DR


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## atotton (Aug 26, 2013)

> Heres two Ive built. The seats are off being upolstered, but it gives you a better look at the axle arangement. These are both for B minis, So I set them up to be adjustable for hight, the axles will move forward or back for gross balance adjustment. The seats also move for fine adjustment. Then I can lean to make the shafts float.


I just bought a cart very similar to the yellow one. what is the design called?


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## horsenarounnd (Aug 27, 2013)

I commented on this topic early on and I'm happy to se that it has again come to the top. Since the early comments, a source for very nice wheels has become available. Kingston Saddlery is offering wheels that have steel spokes and hard rubber tires. These wheels very closely resemble wood wheels, but don't require sanding and preparation and are very well suited for do-it-yourselfers. They are strong enough for any use I've found so far and are acceptable for use in Carriage shows and CDE's. These wheels are not cheap, but at around 230.00 per pair including shipping I feel they are a good value. That is comparable to wood wheels and these don't require sanding and finishing. They also won't "taco" and no tubes to go flat. They are available to fit 5/8 o 3/4 inch axles have good quality bearings, and have grease zerts for easy greasing. I've recently refit one 4 wheel cart with them and recently built a two wheel cart using them and am impressed so far. These wheels are the type that are ecoming very popular on many high end carts and carriages. I'd like to hear other opinions on these from others who may have tried them.

I and a friend just completed a two wheel cart for a family with a 3 1/2 year old sone who has Muscular Distrophy. This cart was built using 1" channel steel for the frame and the floor is flat with a ramp so his wheelchair can be rolled onto it and fastened securely in place. There is a seat for a driver next to the chair, and so far it is working well. We did have a little cjhallenge getting the balance the way we wanted, but were able to get it to the point that we have about 20# of weight on the horse when loaded, We are wrking on some refinements for a cart of this design to reduce the overall weight and hope to have some available by next Spring.

If I can figure out how to put pictures on here (I'm better at building carts than using a computer) I'll post a picture of the cart.


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## paintponylvr (Aug 27, 2013)

I would love to see the carts that you've built. If you can send the pictures to me, I'd be happy to load them for you. my personal email is purplepaint pony @ yahoo dot com. Just take the spaces out.


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## Margo_C-T (Aug 31, 2013)

The most basic EEs, such as the original Frontier, and the CTM, have only a coil spring under each end of the seat, and that is MINIMAL for any comfort to the ride.As far as I can tell from photos, the Hyperbike, which many love( and I like, but don't find suitable for my own use), has no 'specific' suspension system, but relies on an overall 'flexibility' for its 'ride cushion'....perhaps the builder will comment? I like the look of the two built by DR; but would love to know what kind of suspension they will have?

Also---- with the kind of wheels mentioned by horsenaround, where there is not an air-filled tire(Air-filling does have one benefit; it does give 'some' cushion to the ride; also, the lower weight of pneumatics is usually a plus, as they are usually much lighter than any alternative), in a cart without , or with a very minimal, suspension system (like the coil spring, for example), what is one to do about some sort of reasonable suspension system? I have read of, but have no personal experience with, changing out coil springs for the C springs, for at least 'some' improvement--but would love to hear the experience of anyone who has done such!

There can be some real drawbacks to pneumatic tires, ESPECIALLY if they aren't specific to the use you desire them for.My 'genuine' Frontier came w/ HD tires w/ 5" hubs; suitable for cart use;not 'just' bike tires.Something to consider w/ any air-filled wheels(tires)....the possibility of a loud blow out...have read more than one story of disastrous results. Too,a flat when you are 'out and about' can mean a long WALK home. For these reasons, I plan to look into the Kingston wheels mentioned when replacements are needed for my Frontier, which have puncture-resistant tubes and 'green goop' in them, and have so far served me well in basic driving...(but NOT CDE or anything of the like!)


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## horsenarounnd (Aug 31, 2013)

Margo C-T you make some very good points, and these are all things you need to consider when building your own cart, or when you try to retrofit an existing cart. I've had some success with changing from the coik springs to "C" springs. Usually the coild springs will break at some point, and that's when you can most easily switch to the "C" springs. If you have or can make a flat surface to mount them to, its easy to just put them on the frame under the seat at the same place the coil springs were mounted. As far as springs for the seat go, I'm trying a new idea, repurposing school bus seat cushions. I drive a school but, and the company I drive for has a garage full of the cushions. They are 36" wide, very nicely upholstered,have good quality springs inside and also hace heavy duty foam. I figure if those cushions are comfortable enough to ride several hours on a field trip or even an hour or so to school, they are way better than most of the seats you get on a basic EE cart with 2" foam cushion. I'll come back on here to provide an update.

As far as the wheels are concerned, you are right on there too. The solid rubber tired wheels don't provide any cushioning, but I feel the trade off is the no flats, strength of wheel and looks of the wheels. Just my opinion, everyone is entitled to theirs.

I did have a cart that had the best suspension I've ever used, it had elliptical springs under the seat, one on each side, mounted lengthwise, You can get the cart from Fairview Country Sales, Millersburg OH. No website, but phone is 330-359-1501. Problem is, the smallest cart is pony size, and is too big for anything under about 36". They do have very nice wire wheels in a variety of sizes, and also list the flat-free inserts for pnuematic tires.

Building your own cart can be a lot of fun, and with some imagination you can find new solutions for some nagging problems, but can be frustrating, too.


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## dangerranger (Sep 21, 2013)

Heres a link to the Kingston wheels. I know where Im getting my next set of wheels!

http://www.kingston-saddlery.com/kss.asp?sel=product&id=C2231.MT&typ_id=60&cat=HORSE

http://www.kingston-saddlery.com/kss.asp?sel=product&id=C2241.WT&typ_id=60&cat=HORSE

The cast motorcycle wheels look great and the spoked ones look to be quite a step up also. Thanks DR


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## happy appy (Sep 21, 2013)

The only down side to Kingston Wheels is that they don't ship to Canada!


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## Gone_Riding (Oct 15, 2013)

G & S Horse Cart Co. in Iowa have some excellent quality wheels for building a cart. They cost more, but with that comes the quality.

http://www.gscart.com/wheels.htm


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## happy appy (Oct 15, 2013)

I ended up picking up some wheels at the national drive. 4 sets actually. They are steel with rubber. They came off the polish marathon carts because the people upgraded before they drove them so the wheels are brand new. I still can't beleive what we got them for.


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 16, 2013)

No wonder you are happy, appy!!!


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## happy appy (Oct 16, 2013)

We have had a hard time finding a cart with 65 shafts so we made one. I couldn't find the wheels though. We ended up getting them for $20 a tire! Can't beat that .


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