# HELP IS THIS NORMAL!!!



## ValerieS (Feb 9, 2022)

My mare is 204 days in foal these pics are of her udder yesterday & today


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## Dickel (Feb 9, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> My mare is 204 days in foal these pics are of her udder yesterday & today


I would think so. It will be a while before her udder will fill out.


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## elizabeth.conder (Feb 10, 2022)

I would definitely keep an eye on it. Starting an udder that early is not normal. However it could just be hormonal. There is always the chance of placentitis.


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## ValerieS (Feb 10, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> I would definitely keep an eye on it. Starting an udder that early is not normal. However it could just be hormonal. There is always the chance of placentitis.


Are their other signs of Placentitis and what amount of udder development would signify a reason to look into that? I sent the pics to my vet she said it’s probably hormonal but I really trust mini breeder experience even more so.


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## elizabeth.conder (Feb 10, 2022)

Well with little development I would lean hormonal. But if it continues to grow then I’d have her checked as a precaution. There is usually discharge with placentitis.


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## ValerieS (Feb 10, 2022)

Thank you so much I’ll keep watching it closely!


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## ValerieS (Feb 10, 2022)

Here’s today!!! Thoughts?!!!


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## Pitter Patter (Feb 11, 2022)

My mare is also pregnant, although I have no idea how many days along she is, however way back in August my girl had even more udder development and then it disappeared completely and is back up a bit again. I think it is a good possibility it is hormonal and the mare's body preparing. Women who have been pregnant can probably relate to swelled (and even painful) breasts early on and it usually gets better in a while and comes back again closer to deliver. Just my thoughts. It is good to think of all the possibilities though. Keep an eye on it and take frequent photos so you can monitor any changes more objectively than trying to remember. Keep us posed!


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## Dickel (Feb 11, 2022)

Been at this for a long time and it never entered my mind to take pictures of their udders. I always did as my vet did and feel the udder for thickening and how soft it was or anything that felt abnormal. I guess abnormal is something found comparing from the past. The vet will talk about what he or she is feeling while examining the mare. A person worried might want to have a vet explain what they are feeling while examining the udder. Just a thought. I know in some areas the vet cost and be quite high. It is not here.


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## ValerieS (Feb 12, 2022)

Dickel said:


> Been at this for a long time and it never entered my mind to take pictures of their udders. I always did as my vet did and feel the udder for thickening and how soft it was or anything that felt abnormal. I guess abnormal is something found comparing from the past. The vet will talk about what he or she is feeling while examining the mare. A person worried might want to have a vet explain what they are feeling while examining the udder. Just a thought. I know in some areas the vet cost and be quite high. It is not here.


Thank you and yes I have no problem having my vet out and I always call if concerned. I did speak to her and sent her photos. She felt it was probably hormonal unless it progresses but also told me if a mare is going to abort there’s nothing that can stop that process  unless it’s low progesterone then of course there’s Regumate, but she seems to be doing good right now and her udder hadn’t changed any further at this point thankfully.


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## ValerieS (Feb 12, 2022)

Pitter Patter said:


> My mare is also pregnant, although I have no idea how many days along she is, however way back in August my girl had even more udder development and then it disappeared completely and is back up a bit again. I think it is a good possibility it is hormonal and the mare's body preparing. Women who have been pregnant can probably relate to swelled (and even painful) breasts early on and it usually gets better in a while and comes back again closer to deliver. Just my thoughts. It is good to think of all the possibilities though. Keep an eye on it and take frequent photos so you can monitor any changes more objectively than trying to remember. Keep us posed!


Thank you that’s a very true and comforting thought appreciate <3


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## ValerieS (Feb 12, 2022)

why is this mare making me nervous i need to stop


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## Taz (Feb 13, 2022)

She could be elongating but doesn't look there yet, do you have an earlier pic for comparison? It's easier to tell if you move her tail sideways instead of up, up they will tense up and you won't see what's really going on as well. Are you 100% on her breed date? Has she normally had more belly than that?


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## ValerieS (Feb 13, 2022)

Taz said:


> She could be elongating but doesn't look there yet, do you have an earlier pic for comparison? It's easier to tell if you move her tail sideways instead of up, up they will tense up and you won't see what's really going on as well. Are you 100% on her breed date? Has she normally had more belly than that?


She’s big it worries me she’s only 208 days, I’ll get a pic. When i took this the baby was lined up position because she looked flat sided and low but of course it didn’t stay like that. Usually it’s hard for me to tell a horse is pregnant at this stage but yes she’s 100% confirmed by a vet.


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## ValerieS (Feb 13, 2022)

Taz said:


> She could be elongating but doesn't look there yet, do you have an earlier pic for comparison? It's easier to tell if you move her tail sideways instead of up, up they will tense up and you won't see what's really going on as well. Are you 100% on her breed date? Has she normally had more belly than that?


Here’s a side view


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## ValerieS (Feb 13, 2022)

Here’s todays from view


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## elizabeth.conder (Feb 13, 2022)

I wouldn’t worry about her size yet at all. She’s pretty good sized but minis are notorious for getting huge. She does have a bit of elongation going but I wouldn’t at all he surprised if it’s tied to her possibly hormonal udder. I’d watch it yes, but I would be relatively sure she’s just practicing.


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## ValerieS (Feb 13, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> I wouldn’t worry about her size yet at all. She’s pretty good sized but minis are notorious for getting huge. She does have a bit of elongation going but I wouldn’t at all he surprised if it’s tied to her possibly hormonal udder. I’d watch it yes, but I would be relatively sure she’s just practicing.


Thank you so much appreciate that I’ll take a deep breath and chill out


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## ValerieS (Feb 14, 2022)

But does this look normal for 208 days?


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## Taz (Feb 14, 2022)

PittePatter has one that's looked bigger than that since Aug. Any chance she had an earlier date with the boy than you thought?


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## elizabeth.conder (Feb 14, 2022)

To me it does. She’s hitting the stage where the foal is grown enough that she’s showing a lot. You’ll likely see much more growth now as she can’t hide it as well. That’s just my opinion though. If you are concerned, a vet call is never wrong.


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## Dickel (Feb 14, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> But does this look normal for 208 days?



In years past have had as many as six mares pregnant at the same time that were pasture bread without a known due date. I have gone uot and found a new born that I was wondering if she was even in foal. I have others that I would have bet was going to have twins they were so big. Over the years I have only had one foal in a stall. Most are born in the pasture without any problems. When I fing them I put them in a shelter for a few weeks. I call the vet to come out and the vet is normally here in a couple hours. My worry meter is on low unless I see something strange. I do set with each horse when feeding on pasture where I do examine them. This is where I feed in the main pasture. I keep up to sis mares in this pasture and If I don't set with them, they will push to eat the others food. They each have their own dish and are made to stay at it. Four eat at the place in the picture and two in the shelter.


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## ValerieS (Feb 14, 2022)

Taz said:


> PittePatter has one that's looked bigger than that since Aug. Any chance she had an earlier date with the boy than you thought?


How far along was her mare in August do you know I’d be interested for sure? I actually did not mean to breed this mare it was accidental that she was exposed to my stallion I had an appt to geld one week later but I’m not mad babies are always beautiful. I unexpectedly caught them in the act on July 20 no question on the date.


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## ValerieS (Feb 14, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> To me it does. She’s hitting the stage where the foal is grown enough that she’s showing a lot. You’ll likely see much more growth now as she can’t hide it as well. That’s just my opinion though. If you are concerned, a vet call is never wrong.


I always call my vet and talk to her lol she’s amazing but there’s not much she can do other then try to ultrasound from the outside as she doesn’t like internally with minis.


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## ValerieS (Feb 14, 2022)

Taz said:


> PittePatter has one that's looked bigger than that since Aug. Any chance she had an earlier date with the boy than you thought?


I just noticed Pitter Patter commented on this thread sorry I haven’t been around here long just getting to know everyone I did search and found that post but couldn’t find anywhere that said how far along her mare was, only difference tho is her mare was a brood mare mine is a maiden for sure I’ve had her since she was weaned she’s 11 now


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## Taz (Feb 14, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> I just noticed Pitter Patter commented on this thread sorry I haven’t been around here long just getting to know everyone I did search and found that post but couldn’t find anywhere that said how far along her mare was, only difference tho is her mare was a brood mare mine is a maiden for sure I’ve had her since she was weaned she’s 11 now


She's not sure on the breed date but I think it was early April, at least she said she was standing for him in early April, they live together. She hasn't foaled yet. Yes, she's a broodmare but was HUGE and has just gotten bigger through the winter. I have an experienced broodmare who doesn't show at all until right at the end. They can be all over the place, just more to make us lose our minds.


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

Hi anyone out there her udder tonight it’s much bigger! I’m nervous! Is that wax!!!


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

Ok so back in April 2021 I confess she did run with my other minis there was a stallion present but he’s 29 inches, young not experienced! He did get my other mare pregnant I post about her too she’s 29 inches as well though! This mare is a large mini she’s 39 inches I’d never seen him get even close she’s so much taller. She went on to show full heat May, June then on July 20th thats when my other stallion who was a week from being gelded took down a fence line to get to her, I caught them in the act, I was gone most of the day so he could have covered her several times! She has no discharge which my vet said would be present with Placentitis, opinions please and has anyone ever seen a successful breeding with that much of a height difference could I have gotten this all wrong


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## Taz (Feb 18, 2022)

Yes, I've know successful breedings at the height difference, sorry. Don't panic yet. That doesn't look like a foaling udder yet. Her nipples aren't filled and you are waiting for them to point down not in. She looks like she's elongating but she can do more. Wax is a yellow colour and will cover the bottom of the nipple, I don't see wax. Keep watching and let us know if anything changes


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## LostandFound (Feb 18, 2022)

Miniature stallions have breed full sized horses. If you run your mares with a stallion you should probably expect foals.


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

Taz said:


> Yes, I've know successful breedings at the height difference, sorry. Don't panic yet. That doesn't look like a foaling udder yet. Her nipples aren't filled and you are waiting for them to point down not in. She looks like she's elongating but she can do more. Wax is a yellow colour and will cover the bottom of the nipple, I don't see wax. Keep watching and let us know if anything changes


what about her being a maiden the rules change a little huh  
Thank you gosh I hope I’ve been wrong but she literally showed full heat and let him cover her


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## Taz (Feb 18, 2022)

Some mares will do that the whole pregnancy but it's not normal. I think the biggest problem with maidens is you don't know what their normal is. She could go on like this for a while, there's just no knowing. I have one(experienced brood mare but a rescue without any background on her normal) who had me watching for 4 months thinking she was close then when I saw her a couple days before I knew what her close was. I'm not a breeder or a pro, I tend to start foal watch early and make everyone around me crazy talking and worrying. Hang in there, talk to your vet as much as you need to without worrying that you're bothering her and post anything here, it helps.


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

LostandFound said:


> Miniature stallions have breed full sized horses. If you run your mares with a stallion you should probably expect foals.


I do realize things like that can happen, seemed super unlikely with this young one, you could see how inexperienced he was. I was hoping he’d breed at least my small mare I could see his couple attempts at this mare were short he got bored frustrated and he moved on. I personally never saw him even bother with her again I HOPE IM WRONG! She also had 3 months after this of full heat as to when I witnessed her allow our other stallion to cover her and by the looks of her rear more then once.


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## Taz (Feb 18, 2022)

It does sound like the last breeding is the one that took, very frustrating timing though.


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## Dickel (Feb 18, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> I do realize things like that can happen, seemed super unlikely with this young one, you could see how inexperienced he was. I was hoping he’d breed at least my small mare I could see his couple attempts at this mare were short he got bored frustrated and he moved on. I personally never saw him even bother with her again I HOPE IM WRONG! She also had 3 months after this of full heat as to when I witnessed her allow our other stallion to cover her and by the looks of her rear more then once.


When a taller mare is really ready, they will stoop to get the job done. A stallion or stud will only give up for a short time. Even when they are getting the slats kicked out of them, they don't give up when the odor is there.


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

Dickel said:


> When a taller mare is really ready, they will stoop to get the job done. A stallion or stud will only give up for a short time. Even when they are getting the slats kicked out of them, they don't give up when the odor is there.


Praying that’s what happened and that she was just a little hoe the next couple months because the alternative makes me nervous. Thank you


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

Taz said:


> Some mares will do that the whole pregnancy but it's not normal. I think the biggest problem with maidens is you don't know what their normal is. She could go on like this for a while, there's just no knowing. I have one(experienced brood mare but a rescue without any background on her normal) who had me watching for 4 months thinking she was close then when I saw her a couple days before I knew what her close was. I'm not a breeder or a pro, I tend to start foal watch early and make everyone around me crazy talking and worrying. Hang in there, talk to your vet as much as you need to without worrying that you're bothering her and post anything here, it helps.


I just sat on a telemedicine zoom call with my vet for 30 minutes she’s so busy today but at least it gave us a chance to check in. I guess Placentitis is extremely rare in California so weird but yeah, she said that and does NOT feel it’s the issue but to accurately diagnose they’d do an internal ultrasound measuring the placenta and uterus which they can’t do with minis. She agreed with what you and others said that she could very well have gotten pregnant and been a hussy the next few months lol her words or just having a dramatic pregnancy that does continue normally for at least 87 more days


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## Taz (Feb 18, 2022)

Have you asked your vet if you can treat her safely for placentitis if she doesn't have it? That might make you feel better and cover the bases in case. As long as it's safe for both mare and foal it could be worth it?


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## Dickel (Feb 18, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> I just sat on a telemedicine zoom call with my vet for 30 minutes she’s so busy today but at least it gave us a chance to check in. I guess Placentitis is extremely rare in California so weird but yeah, she said that and does NOT feel it’s the issue but to accurately diagnose they’d do an internal ultrasound measuring the placenta and uterus which they can’t do with minis. She agreed with what you and others said that she could very well have gotten pregnant and been a hussy the next few months lol her words or just having a dramatic pregnancy that does continue normally for at least 87 more days



They don't always catch the first time. It does not automatically mean they are pregnant when you witness the event.


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

Dickel said:


> They don't always catch the first time. It does not automatically mean they are pregnant when you witness the event.


Yes I realize that but she wasn’t bred after the last time which was the only time I witnessed it. Three months prior she was pastured with mares geldings and one very young much smaller stallion that I never saw mess with her at all really. I know that doesn’t mean he didn’t in fact at this point I’m praying he did but she went on to appear in heat over the next few months and let a stallion cover her


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

Taz said:


> Have you asked your vet if you can treat her safely for placentitis if she doesn't have it? That might make you feel better and cover the bases in case. As long as it's safe for both mare and foal it could be worth it?


Yes I did think about that too but was torn on whether that’s a good idea as you hear about people losing babies after vaccines and wondering if antibiotics can cause problems ever especially if not needed. I guess I could ask her…


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## ValerieS (Feb 18, 2022)

Taz said:


> Have you asked your vet if you can treat her safely for placentitis if she doesn't have it? That might make you feel better and cover the bases in case. As long as it's safe for both mare and foal it could be worth it?


Wow It’s so much more intense to treat then a simple antibiotic, so complicated to diagnose in minis especiallyjust praying she’s correct as she does specialize in reproduction and seemed very confident the situation would have already escalated from bad to worse.









Placentitis - Etiology, Diagnosis and Treatment


A review of placentitis in the mare including current diagnosis and treatment. A case review with images is also presented.




equine-reproduction.com


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## ValerieS (Mar 29, 2022)

Does this look like wax


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## Taz (Mar 29, 2022)

Maybe? The colour looks right to me. Anything else going on? How far along is she now?


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## Dickel (Mar 29, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Does this look like waxView attachment 46559



The way I check for wax is to pinch off what is on the end of the nipple and rub it between my thumb and finger. If it feels like wax it is wax. If it does not feel slippery like wax it is dirt.


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 29, 2022)

Appears to be plugs. Can you get a picture of her whole udder? As I recall, she’s too early to be waxing…


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 29, 2022)

A good way to differentiate between plugs and wax is understanding what causes them. Plugs are literally plugs that are found on every mare. Some are very obvious like in your girls case, and some are barely noticeable. wax occurs when the udder is so full that it’s leaking. That’s what makes it look waxy because it’s seeping out.


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## ValerieS (Mar 29, 2022)

Taz said:


> Maybe? The colour looks right to me. Anything else going on? How far along is she now?


The color is what caught my eye as well. Actually yes she has mushy manure and her rear is definitely softening she’s also laying down a lot. She has the complicated story but only known cover on July 20 which would make her 252 days.


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## ValerieS (Mar 29, 2022)

Dickel said:


> The way I check for wax is to pinch off what is on the end of the nipple and rub it between my thumb and finger. If it feels like wax it is wax. If it does not feel slippery like wax it is dirt.


When i went to look for it today it had fallen off it was gone


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## ValerieS (Mar 29, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Appears to be plugs. Can you get a picture of her whole udder? As I recall, she’s too early to be waxing…


Yes but she does have a complicated story I believe I told it somewhere on this thread with only known cover though July 20. I hope you’re right and it’s just plugs but the color was different I’ll go take an udder pic


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## ValerieS (Mar 29, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> A good way to differentiate between plugs and wax is understanding what causes them. Plugs are literally plugs that are found on every mare. Some are very obvious like in your girls case, and some are barely noticeable. wax occurs when the udder is so full that it’s leaking. That’s what makes it look waxy because it’s seeping out.


I’ve seen wax once, I’ve had 3 births on my property, a mini, a donkey and a standard size horse. My horse was not a maiden and followed the book perfectly with waxing the day she foaled. It was more then what this appeared here but very similar in color.


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## Dickel (Mar 29, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> I’ve seen wax once, I’ve had 3 births on my property, a mini, a donkey and a standard size horse. My horse was not a maiden and followed the book perfectly with waxing the day she foaled. It was more then what this appeared here but very similar in color.


Any time I check an udder I strip the teat down to see if there is any discharge of any kind. I then look at what might be on my fingers. I milked cows by hand all thru high school which may make a difference in how I look at things.


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 29, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Yes but she does have a complicated story I believe I told it somewhere on this thread with only known cover though July 20. I hope you’re right and it’s just plugs but the color was different I’ll go take an udder pic



It is a but unusual looking for just plugs but I’m hoping that’s the case, if that July breed date is correct. It doesn’t look like her udder is full so hopefully that’s the case!


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## Taz (Mar 29, 2022)

I might be completely wrong here so don't hold me to it. Can you get anything from her udder? Isn't the wax yellow because it's leaking colostrum? If you can't get anything from her udder then it shouldn't be wax? I've only had one wax and she was a big mare, it covered her the whole bottom of her teat and when I took it off it was very sticky. How's she doing today?
I'm pulling for your vet being right and everything is fine she's just being dramatic.......it never hurts to think positive and hope


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## ValerieS (Mar 29, 2022)

Taz said:


> I might be completely wrong here so don't hold me to it. Can you get anything from her udder? Isn't the wax yellow because it's leaking colostrum? If you can't get anything from her udder then it shouldn't be wax? I've only had one wax and she was a big mare, it covered her the whole bottom of her teat and when I took it off it was very sticky. How's she doing today?
> I'm pulling for your vet being right and everything is fine she's just being dramatic.......it never hurts to think positive and hope


I’m not Taz I totally respect your honest opinion that’s all I’d ever ask for and I agree I thought the color was suspicious


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## ValerieS (Mar 29, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> It is a but unusual looking for just plugs but I’m hoping that’s the case, if that July breed date is correct. It doesn’t look like her udder is full so hopefully that’s the case!


Ok so the first pic is last night when I posted about the possible “wax” the other photo is right now. The strange thing is she hasn’t had this small of an udder in about 2 months. She’s really had me nervous with her early development. There appears to be dried fluid on her teats just a few tiny drops (pic is close up of that) now I’m wondering if she’s been leaking fluid out hence the shrinking?! Would that be considered normal?


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 30, 2022)

Okay the good news is that udder doesn’t look close to foaling which I’m sure you knew. I’m wondering if they are just overzealous plugs. I agree they did look odd. But I’m having a hard time thinking it’s true wax. I am checking with my mentor (she’s bred minis for decades), I’ll let you know what she thinks. How many days is she now?


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## ValerieS (Mar 30, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Okay the good news is that udder doesn’t look close to foaling which I’m sure you knew. I’m wondering if they are just overzealous plugs. I agree they did look odd. But I’m having a hard time thinking it’s true wax. I am checking with my mentor (she’s bred minis for decades), I’ll let you know what she thinks. How many days is she now?


Thank you so muchshe’s 253 days but she’s also a maiden which I realize makes her harder to read?!


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 30, 2022)

My mentor agrees. It’s likely just more dramatic plugs. Not enough udder for wax. Plus not near far enough along (assuming placentitis was ruled out which I think you said it was).


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## Dickel (Mar 31, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> My mentor agrees. It’s likely just more dramatic plugs. Not enough udder for wax. Plus not near far enough along (assuming placentitis was ruled out which I think you said it was).



To me I would call what is seen in your picture the area where an udder will develop when the time comes. After she foals and after she drys up you will see more of an udder.


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 31, 2022)

Dickel said:


> To me I would call what is seen in your picture the area where an udder will develop when the time comes. After she foals and after she drys up you will see more of an udder.



I’m not sure what you mean by this? After she drys up (I’m assuming you mean at waning) her udder should go back down to nothing. She’s already got some udder forming. But it could just be hormonal.


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## Dickel (Mar 31, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> I’m not sure what you mean by this? After she drys up (I’m assuming you mean at waning) her udder should go back down to nothing. She’s already got some udder forming. But it could just be hormonal.



What I mean is after the foal is weaned, she will dry up and always have an udder. It will be more like two flaps that you can feel. I was only trying to keep you from worrying as much. About the only time I worry is about people that worry. 
Worry is anxiety and uncertainty over actual or (potential problems) that might never accrue. My wife worries about things that she loses days at a time where she can only sit around before she gets the (true) facts. Please don't take offence!


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 31, 2022)

I think you may be tagging the wrong person. I’m not the owner, just trying to give advise from my experience. And no offense taken.


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## Dickel (Mar 31, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> I think you may be tagging the wrong person. I’m not the owner, just trying to give advise from my experience. And no offense taken.



I'm 83 and my wife says I am hard of hearing. I tell her my hearing is fine but I don't pay attention. You just proved I am right again. Now to prove that I was right for once to Shirley! Aw, I better drop it and let well enough alone.


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## ValerieS (Mar 31, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> My mentor agrees. It’s likely just more dramatic plugs. Not enough udder for wax. Plus not near far enough along (assuming placentitis was ruled out which I think you said it was).


Thank you for asking her that’s really good news  my only mini birth experience was back several years I still have the filly she’s my heart, but what I was getting at was the mare was a maiden whom I wasn’t sure she was in foal. Got my vet out to look at her, he said she’s a bit overweight not pregnant that’s why she has a mildly flabby udder, it was just very slightly swollen. He did take blood though called me a week later and said SHES VERY PREGNANT lol she foaled a month later with literally no udder and no super obvious signs. I did catch the birth though purely by accident, but this is probably why I get a bit nervous about all this fairly easy. Maidens are terrifying lol


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## Taz (Mar 31, 2022)

I think the whole things terrifying, not having a breed date or having them act 'funny' just makes it worse! I'm sure you've said this but do you have a camera on her at night? It makes for a long night if you're checking her but better than getting up or not knowing what's going on.


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## ValerieS (Mar 31, 2022)

Taz said:


> I think the whole things terrifying, not having a breed date or having them act 'funny' just makes it worse! I'm sure you've said this but do you have a camera on her at night? It makes for a long night if you're checking her but better than getting up or not knowing what's going on.


Yes I do have her on camera at night in a barn stall. I let her out during the day but there’s 8 cameras surrounding the barn and near areas so I can see her and the others daytime too. The problem is I auto wake every hour and grab for my phone which im sleeping with to look at her. I feel like because she’s so symptomatic foal watch has started so much earlier then anticipated, she’ll be 300 days May 16th unless the weirder version of my story pans out, but that’s my earliest goal. So tired but I know all of you know way too well about that


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## ValerieS (Apr 2, 2022)

I THINK IT WAS colostrum because she’s in laborpraying its a full term baby and my weirder version of the story pans out


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## HersheyMint (Apr 2, 2022)

Praying for a easy delivery and all are well


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## ValerieS (Apr 2, 2022)

HersheyMint said:


> Praying for a easy delivery and all are well


Thank you appreciate! She’s been rolling and trying to reposition this baby for at least 2 hours i know of is this normal


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 2, 2022)

Is she for sure in labor? If she is and hasn’t progressed in 2 hrs she needs intervention ASAP. Is she activity pushing or just uncomfortable? If she’s just uncomfortable it may not be labor and it may just be an uncomfortable position of the foal. If she’s truly in labor though and it’s been this long it’s time for a vet.


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## ValerieS (Apr 2, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Is she for sure in labor? If she is and hasn’t progressed in 2 hrs she needs intervention ASAP. Is she activity pushing or just uncomfortable? If she’s just uncomfortable it may not be labor and it may just be an uncomfortable position of the foal. If she’s truly in labor though and it’s been this long it’s time for a vet.


She’s been trying to position it for at least 3 hours now! I called my vet he said this can last hours???!!!! I’m nervous!!! Not pushing just rolling and pacing!


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 2, 2022)

That looks like pushing to me. Do you have a longer video. I’m sending you a pm


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## Taz (Apr 2, 2022)

Didn't check in until too late. You need a vet. Any updates?


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## ValerieS (Apr 2, 2022)

Taz said:


> Didn't check in until too late. You need a vet. Any updates?


I’m at the equine hospital with her i feel physically sick so sad, don’t know what’s going on but nothing good


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## HersheyMint (Apr 2, 2022)

Prayers


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## Taz (Apr 2, 2022)

She's where she will get help, you did the right thing to take her there.


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## Kelly (Apr 2, 2022)

Thinking of you and wishing you the best


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## Silver City Heritage Farmstead (Apr 2, 2022)

I, too, am praying with the others.


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## ValerieS (Apr 3, 2022)

I ended up taking her to the equine hospital baby was stuck they almost had to surgically remove her, was a beautiful filly born about 6 weeks to early. I’m heartbroken I can’t stop crying I’ve never had this happen im not a breeder it was just an accidental blessing and I’m so unbelievably sad. She’s staying there unti tomorrow on antibiotics and to make sure the placenta passes which hasn’t happened yet. Thank you everyone for your kind words and prayers I’m an emotional wreck.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 3, 2022)

I’m so very sorry. You did everything you could. Your decision to take her in saved the mare. We all wished it could have saved the foal too. Praying for you and her. I know how much it hurts. Let me know if you need anything!


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## Dickel (Apr 3, 2022)

Early on Shirley and I lost a mare and foal because the foal was to large to get out the birth cannel. I laid on the floor of the trailer holding Hanna while the vet attempted to saw the foal up in pieces. One of the sharp bones slit the cannel on the way out and I held her while she died. We were at the Vets house on a Sunday evening with Shirley and the vets wife watched. Hanna was sedated and they wanted me to get up and out of the trailer but I refused. The vet was an hour and a half away and the only one we could get to respond. He wanted to do an autopsy for his own information at no charge and we let him to dispose of Hanna at no charge. He was located in a heavy Amish area. It is still hard to recap. My thoughts and prayers are with you. We love these little buggers even before they are born.


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## Dickel (Apr 3, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> I ended up taking her to the equine hospital baby was stuck they almost had to surgically remove her, was a beautiful filly born about 6 weeks to early. I’m heartbroken I can’t stop crying I’ve never had this happen im not a breeder it was just an accidental blessing and I’m so unbelievably sad. She’s staying there unti tomorrow on antibiotics and to make sure the placenta passes which hasn’t happened yet. Thank you everyone for your kind words and prayers I’m an emotional wreck.



Over the years we have had 4 foal born dead that I took to our local horse clinic to be pulled He told me that if after they start to foal and the foal is not out within a few minutes it will be dead.


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## Taz (Apr 3, 2022)

I'm so very sorry. There was nothing you could have done and what you did saved your sweet girl.


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## Silver City Heritage Farmstead (Apr 3, 2022)

ValerieS,

I'm so very sorry you lost your little filly, and am also grateful you were able to save your mare.

Even the best planned and most experienced breedings can go wrong.

Take your time to mourn. Try not to beat yourself up. It's hard, I know. It was 4 years this past December that I lost my JRT Lucky, and I still haven't really completely forgiven myself.

It will take time. We will be here for you, just let us know how we can help.

Julie in NC

P.S....Dickel, I sent you a pm.


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## HersheyMint (Apr 3, 2022)

I have no words, I wish I did. Know that my heart is with you. Hugs and prayers


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## ValerieS (Apr 5, 2022)

Dickel said:


> Early on Shirley and I lost a mare and foal because the foal was to large to get out the birth cannel. I laid on the floor of the trailer holding Hanna while the vet attempted to saw the foal up in pieces. One of the sharp bones slit the cannel on the way out and I held her while she died. We were at the Vets house on a Sunday evening with Shirley and the vets wife watched. Hanna was sedated and they wanted me to get up and out of the trailer but I refused. The vet was an hour and a half away and the only one we could get to respond. He wanted to do an autopsy for his own information at no charge and we let him to dispose of Hanna at no charge. He was located in a heavy Amish area. It is still hard to recap. My thoughts and prayers are with you. We love these little buggers even before they are born.


Oh my goshno words how absolutely awful I’m so sorry


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## ValerieS (Apr 5, 2022)

Silver City Heritage Farmstead said:


> ValerieS,
> 
> I'm so very sorry you lost your little filly, and am also grateful you were able to save your mare.
> 
> ...


Appreciate and I’m so so sorry I know that feeling all to well


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## ValerieS (Apr 5, 2022)

Thank you so much everyone my heart goes out to all of you who mentioned a loss, absolutely heart wrenching and tragic I still can’t believe it’s all over just like that, so hard to come to terms with when we were so close 
My mare is still at the equine hospital because her placenta has not passed. The doctor says while it’s not the norm it’s also not unheard of after a traumatic birth. She’s on massive antibiotics to make sure she doesn’t get an infection from the retaining of the placenta and her hooves are being iced round the clock to prevent an onset of laminitis from all this. They’ve been doing a uterine lavage several times a day and have her on Pitocin the rest is a waiting game I guess, stubborn placenta. I chose to have the filly cremated I felt so bad letting them just dispose of her when she was so perfect


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## MaryFlora (Apr 5, 2022)

Valerie, I am so very sorry about your loss. As others have said, we know how much it hurts. You absolutely did all you could do and thankfully you were home, aware, and able to respond. 

Prayers and hugs.


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## kimbalina (Apr 5, 2022)

I am so sorry... dear innocent little ones... sweet creatures from heaven... You did all you could. So glad mummy is ok xx


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## Taz (Apr 6, 2022)

How's your mare doing??


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## ValerieS (Apr 6, 2022)

Taz said:


> How's your mare doing??


I just got back maybe 30 minutes ago from picking her up at the equine hospital. The placenta finally came out yesterday afternoon, today her Lavage was clear so she could come home at last. The techs were sweet gave her a spa day today at the hospital, bath, braided her mane and even had a farrier trim her hooves. I still tear up at least 10 times a day this is so hard and seeing her “skinny” again with no baby at her side broke my heart  but I’m so happy she’s home and ok. I have to give her a Pitocin injection for 2 more days and antibiotics 5 more. Thank you Taz thanks everyone❣


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## Silver City Heritage Farmstead (Apr 6, 2022)

I'm glad to see she was lovingly returned into your care. I'll keep up prayers that you're heart will be eased soon.


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## ValerieS (Apr 6, 2022)

Silver City Heritage Farmstead said:


> I'm glad to see she was lovingly returned into your care. I'll keep up prayers that you're heart will be eased soon.❤‍❤‍


Thank you so much ❤


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## Taz (Apr 7, 2022)

I'm so relieved she's home and well. I hope having her home will give you some peace and let you start healing along with her, hugs


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 7, 2022)

So glad she is home and doing well!


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## HersheyMint (Apr 7, 2022)

I'm so glad she is home with you. She needs you as much as you need her right now. Hugs to you both


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## ValerieS (Apr 7, 2022)

so much went wrong


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## ValerieS (Apr 9, 2022)

I have a mare I’d been posting about on another thread a few weeks ago, her possibly being pregnant, tested positive early on but i wasn’t convinced she held it, I really think she did now AND my other mare I’ve never talked about who tested negative early on and showed signs of heat the last 3 days yeah I’m convinced she is toobefore you all say “wishful” thinking since I did get super depressed over my recent loss and I’m probably out of my mind, ok maybe but I’m still thinking I’m right hahahope everyone is doing well❤


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## Taz (Apr 9, 2022)

I'm not going to say or think wishful thinking or you're out of your mind or anything else like that. I hope they both are!!!!!!  More info and pictures please?!?! I hadn't given up on your other one being in foal after seeing how her belly changed shape and size in a day but I wasn't going to bring it up and get your hopes up if I was wrong, please don't let me be wrong


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## ValerieS (Apr 10, 2022)

Taz said:


> I'm not going to say or think wishful thinking or you're out of your mind or anything else like that. I hope they both are!!!!!!  More info and pictures please?!?! I hadn't given up on your other one being in foal after seeing how her belly changed shape and size in a day but I wasn't going to bring it up and get your hopes up if I was wrong, please don't let me be wrong



Oh my gosh I never looked twice at this mare regarding pregnancy because she blood tested negative and has been acting like she’s in heat but her body changed literally over night and it caught my eye so I’ve put her in a barn stall on camera the last two nights, and she’s been laying down a lot, also manure with no form. I watched her on the camera all night she paced, kicked her belly, nipped her flanks and pushed her butt up against the wall for hours. Her udder is nothing really but is bigger then her norm she has that same small looking “wax” color blob like my other mare had before the disastrous day. She’s a maiden btw


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## ValerieS (Apr 10, 2022)

if you can’t see the video here’s a link 





- YouTube


Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.




youtube.com


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## ValerieS (Apr 10, 2022)

Here’s a video from last night


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## Taz (Apr 10, 2022)

From what you're describing she could be in foal, she looks uncomfortable in that video, do you have any pictures? When was she bred? How about the other one, anything going on with her? I don't see much sleep in your near future.


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## ValerieS (Apr 10, 2022)

here one where she didn’t stop nipping at her flank


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## Taz (Apr 10, 2022)

I'd be keeping a very close eye on her, the problem is you don't know if she's been acting like this for a while which some do or if it's a sign that she's close, ugh. With her being a maiden you want to make sure you are there to help her after in case she is afraid of the foal. I had one here who was and it wasn't severe but she had to be held for the foal to nurse for the first 12 hours or so, after that she was fine but it was a two person job all day. Do you have someone there to help you?


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## ValerieS (Apr 10, 2022)

Taz said:


> From what you're describing she could be in foal, she looks uncomfortable in that video, do you have any pictures? When was she bred? How about the other one, anything going on with her? I don't see much sleep in your near future.
> [/QUOTE
> same time frame as my other I had posted about. They were both seen in May 2021 with my young stallion mounting but not finishing at least when I witnessed it. I removed him from the girls May 30. I have videos of her out at the fence line the last 3 days squirting & winking at my stallion, my family thinks I’m crazy btw lol but this mare I know her so well. She’s my bottle baby was born in 2013 on my property her mom tried to kill her immediately after birth. My vet and I did make an attempt to socialize them without success it was awful so I brought her in the house and bottle fed her, she lived in there and the backyard for 5 months. I have mixed emotions about her being pregnant honestly I didn’t want to do that with her and I know “if your mares run with stallions expect pregnancy” for the record he had not dropped his testicles yet we were waiting to see if he was going to be a crypt but then there they were just like that.


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## ValerieS (Apr 10, 2022)

Taz said:


> I'd be keeping a very close eye on her, the problem is you don't know if she's been acting like this for a while which some do or if it's a sign that she's close, ugh. With her being a maiden you want to make sure you are there to help her after in case she is afraid of the foal. I had one here who was and it wasn't severe but she had to be held for the foal to nurse for the first 12 hours or so, after that she was fine but it was a two person job all day. Do you have someone there to help you?


I see her all day long she just started acting like this about 2-3 days ago. She’s a thinner built mare never looked pregnant just one day I walked out and bam she looked different it was that fast! Yes I have family members at home, I’m afraid of that with her she’s got quite the attitude with everyone and everything except me and my daughter.


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## ValerieS (Apr 10, 2022)

Taz said:


> From what you're describing she could be in foal, she looks uncomfortable in that video, do you have any pictures? When was she bred? How about the other one, anything going on with her? I don't see much sleep in your near future.


I’m sure the other is as well her udder is changing but it goes up & down a lot! She just looks pregnant to me which I know doesn’t mean a lot, but she also has manure with no real form started last night.


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## Taz (Apr 10, 2022)

The whole world can think you're crazy, ignore them. It's better to watch in case then to say no way and have a problem because of it. If they were bred sometime in May then they are coming along on schedule. She might not get an udder until after foaling or right before, I think you said her mom foaled without one. It's not unheard of for maidens to not show at all until right at the end. I have known mares who didn't like anyone and were crazy about their babies and great moms so don't stress on that before it happens. If the other noes udder is going up and down chances are it will go up and stay there just before she foals. What are their names? It's easier to keep track of who's who that way . I'd keep watching them closely. Good luck and keep us posted. It's OK to vent and freak out as much as you need to, it helps


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## ValerieS (Apr 10, 2022)

Taz said:


> The whole world can think you're crazy, ignore them. It's better to watch in case then to say no way and have a problem because of it. If they were bred sometime in May then they are coming along on schedule. She might not get an udder until after foaling or right before, I think you said her mom foaled without one. It's not unheard of for maidens to not show at all until right at the end. I have known mares who didn't like anyone and were crazy about their babies and great moms so don't stress on that before it happens. If the other noes udder is going up and down chances are it will go up and stay there just before she foals. What are their names? It's easier to keep track of who's who that way . I'd keep watching them closely. Good luck and keep us posted. It's OK to vent and freak out as much as you need to, it helps


HAHA no theyre just like “I just saw her in heat at the fence” I’m like i know lol but stillthey just can’t think outside the box but I love them anyway LOL. Thanks for all the great adviceI honestly haven’t slept in 2 nights I was too afraid if I fell asleep something would happen and I definitely feel the “ptsd” from what happened last week still, I’m just way more nervous now. No more babies after these two if I’m right about them, my nerves are shattered


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

Here’s one of them today. She was very round yesterday and is so slab sided today


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

This is my other one like no real udder but her mom had her with no udder and to be honest never really got one after but maybe because she wasn’t nursing regularly??? My vet left me 3 days of a mild sedative injections so I could use a sawed off syringe to extract 3 days of colostrum from her she wouldn’t let me anywhere near her udders to take it without that. After that the baby went on foal replacement formula


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## Dickel (Apr 11, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Here’s one of them today. She was very round yesterday and is so slab sided today
> 
> 
> View attachment 46732
> View attachment 46733



When was she wormed last and what with??


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

Dickel said:


> When was she wormed last and what with??


Duramectrin 3 weeks ago?!


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## Taz (Apr 11, 2022)

I think you're at that 'wonderful' stage of waiting, watching, wondering and waiting some more. The chestnut, I think she's actually pinto, did the slab sided to very round the next day in her last pictures so it's something to notice with her but not giving you a lot of info. They both look like they're elongating and both need to get more udder development, going by the book they aren't ready yet. Do you by any chance have fescue in your hay? If you do you need to take them off of it and put them on hay cubes. It might or might not have anything to do with the lack of udder, they could just not be there yet. Welcome to foal watch, exciting, exhausting and terrifying, doubly terrifying for you. Wish I could be more help. There was one mare on here a couple of years ago who looked ready to go for about 4 weeks, cow patties and all, she got a little more udder and then finally foaled, after escaping out of her stall where the camera didn't see and having the foal in the back of her paddock alone, both were fine. Mare really is a 4 letter word.
Oh, duramectin (ivermectin) is the right thing for them.


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

Taz said:


> I think you're at that 'wonderful' stage of waiting, watching, wondering and waiting some more. The chestnut, I think she's actually pinto, did the slab sided to very round the next day in her last pictures so it's something to notice with her but not giving you a lot of info. They both look like they're elongating and both need to get more udder development, going by the book they aren't ready yet. Do you by any chance have fescue in your hay? If you do you need to take them off of it and put them on hay cubes. It might or might not have anything to do with the lack of udder, they could just not be there yet. Welcome to foal watch, exciting, exhausting and terrifying,
> doubly terrifying for you. Wish I could be more help. There was one mare on here a couple of years ago who looked ready to go for about 4 weeks, cow patties and all, she got a little more udder and then finally foaled, after escaping out of her stall where the camera didn't see and having the foal in the back of her paddock alone, both were fine. Mare really is a 4 letter word.
> Oh, duramectin (ivermectin) is the right thing for them.


Stop you’re always helpful  Should I keep them in their bath stalls or let them out during the day??? No fescue in fact I haven’t even let them into the grazing pastures since they were possibly bred because you can never guarantee there’s no fescue growing since it’s a wild weed/grass. Good thing her baby was ok I tend to be a worrier I hate that about myself. 
Yes my little chestnut is actually a pintaloosa. Her dam was a Pinto her sire was an Appaloosa. I bought my daughter a APHA from this lady about 5 years ago. While we were there picking him up she said “do you know anyone who wants a mini” i was like “me right here i always want minis” She said her loud Pinto & Appy gave birth to a solid Chestnut other then one white circle and they’ve never done that, she was actually mad about it SO SAD & MEAN! She wanted her off her hands literally said take her, gave her to me, she was about 8 months old at the time. She’s a beautiful little girl about 29 inches and so sweet I love her to pieces


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## Taz (Apr 11, 2022)

Good about the fescue, I'm a worrier too .
I have one that came from a 'mini breeder' who only had pintos, he is black with a small star. She had him by himself in a little paddock, barely feeding him at 4 months old. She was angry and hated him because he was the wrong colour, needless to say he didn't stay there. I don't know what's wrong with people..........


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

oops posted that twice sorry!


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

OMG HER BUTT IS JELLOwith no udder! My Dun! Can she still wait until they fill more or unlikely if her rear feels like that? This is mainly what she does now off and on all day


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

And this is my chestnut just a few hours after the last pic above definite change for the better


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

Taz said:


> Good about the fescue, I'm a worrier too .
> I have one that came from a 'mini breeder' who only had pintos, he is black with a small star. She had him by himself in a little paddock, barely feeding him at 4 months old. She was angry and hated him because he was the wrong colour, needless to say he didn't stay there. I don't know what's wrong with people..........


Gosh that breaks my heart poor little angel people can be so cruel


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## ValerieS (Apr 11, 2022)

Wax?!!! Chestnut!


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## Taz (Apr 12, 2022)

That looks like it could be wax to me, she has started an udder so maybe that will appear very fast or right after?
If the duns bum is jello, yes she can go on like that. Most get there right near the end but there are no guarantees. Your girls really don't seem to like reading the book, they're keeping you on your toes. I would think the lying down a lot is her being uncomfortable. Can you get someone to watch them during the day so you can at least get a nap??


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## Dickel (Apr 12, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Duramectrin 3 weeks ago?!



Great! Some of my horses have lose poop after worming. In my humble opinion from what little I see I think she is bored. What I see in your videos looks like what I see every day. When my well fed stallions lay down in the position of your last picture their belly looks like that. When the lay out flat in the sun they look bloated. I had a neighbor stop to tell me I had a dead horse in the pasture beside the house. I went out and called his name and he got up to my neighbors surprise.


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## ValerieS (Apr 12, 2022)

Taz said:


> That looks like it could be wax to me, she has started an udder so maybe that will appear very fast or right after?
> If the duns bum is jello, yes she can go on like that. Most get there right near the end but there are no guarantees. Your girls really don't seem to like reading the book, they're keeping you on your toes. I would think the lying down a lot is her being uncomfortable. Can you get someone to watch them during the day so you can at least get a nap??


This is what I did last night lol ugh just flipped over in bed checked my cameras went back to sleep.
She’s been laying down pretty solid, got up to nibble hay a couple times. Haven’t checked her udder again since the possible wax don’t want to disturb her. Thank you and yes I sure wish they’d read that book as well!


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## ValerieS (Apr 12, 2022)

Dickel said:


> Great! Some of my horses have lose poop after worming. In my humble opinion from what little I see I think she is bored. What I see in your videos looks like what I see every day. When my well fed stallions lay down in the position of your last picture their belly looks like that. When the lay out flat in the sun they look bloated. I had a neighbor stop to tell me I had a dead horse in the pasture beside the house. I went out and called his name and he got up to my neighbors surprise.


Ouch


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## Taz (Apr 12, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> This is what I did last night lol ugh just flipped over in bed checked my cameras went back to sleep.
> She’s been laying down pretty solid, got up to nibble hay a couple times. Haven’t checked her udder again since the possible wax don’t want to disturb her. Thank you and yes I sure wish they’d read that book as well!


That looks like me on foal watch, then I switch to every 1/2 hour when I think they are close.....it's painful but I can't make myself do anything else. It helps a bit if you can go to sleep really early


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## ValerieS (Apr 12, 2022)

Taz said:


> That looks like me on foal watch, then I switch to every 1/2 hour when I think they are close.....it's painful but I can't make myself do anything else. It helps a bit if you can go to sleep really early


Her udder is just slightly bigger but the colostrum is leaking pretty good out of that one teat only???!


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## Taz (Apr 12, 2022)

I have no idea what the one side only means. I'd be happy about any udder development and not worry as long as she's not dripping colostrum, if that really is what it is, looks like it but I don't know.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 15, 2022)

Hard to tell from just pictures unfortunately… I too hope that they are somehow hiding a foal. It’s so hard when you have ONE and that one was a bad situation, so I definitely feel for you.


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## ValerieS (Apr 15, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Hard to tell from just pictures unfortunately… I too hope that they are somehow hiding a foal. It’s so hard when you have ONE and that one was a bad situation, so I definitely feel for you.


Curious so you don’t think that’s wax? You didn’t think my last mares was wax either but it was. I’m guessing by the hard “ONE” you feel she was the only “one” pregnant. Well I had my vet out that’s why I haven’t posted again in a few days because he confirmed both in foal but thank you for trying to let me down easy


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 15, 2022)

No that is not at all what I was saying. I was referring to your previous post before you started wondering if the others might be in foal. You had said you would never ever do this again. I was saying it’s hard when you only have one and it doesn’t end up with a happy ending. It’s hard enough when you have several but one can can really make it hard to ever consider it again. In other words I was trying to be encouraging.

About the wax… the mare that lost her baby didn’t have wax. Unfortunately, it was a miscarriage that went wrong. She was not ready to foal so was not getting colostrum in. Wax occurs when the udder is so full that it is leaking. It’s literally leaking colostrum which is white. She didn’t have that. Unfortunately there was nothing you could have done.

I’m sorry if I you missunderstood me and it lead to offense. That’s not AT ALL what I was saying. Quite the opposite actually. And I wasn’t saying anything about your current mares other than it’s hard to tell from pictures. Definitely wasn’t trying to tell you they weren’t in foal so “letting you down easy” was not at all in my mind. I was genuinely hoping they were in fact in foal. And now that they’ve been confirmed, I’ll be the first to say CONGRATULATIONS!


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 15, 2022)

This is a full udder with wax.


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## ValerieS (Apr 15, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> No that is not at all what I was saying. I was referring to your previous post before you started wondering if the others might be in foal. You had said you would never ever do this again. I was saying it’s hard when you only have one and it doesn’t end up with a happy ending. It’s hard enough when you have several but one can can really make it hard to ever consider it again. In other words I was trying to be encouraging.
> 
> About the wax… the mare that lost her baby didn’t have wax. Unfortunately, it was a miscarriage that went wrong. She was not ready to foal so was not getting colostrum in. Wax occurs when the udder is so full that it is leaking. It’s literally leaking colostrum which is white. She didn’t have that. Unfortunately there was nothing you could have done.
> 
> I’m sorry if I you missunderstood me and it lead to offense. That’s not AT ALL what I was saying. Quite the opposite actually. And I wasn’t saying anything about your current mares other than it’s hard to tell from pictures. Definitely wasn’t trying to tell you they weren’t in foal so “letting you down easy” was not at all in my mind. I was genuinely hoping they were in fact in foal. And now that they’ve been confirmed, I’ll be the first to say CONGRATULATIONS!


If I misunderstood you then I do apologize. Im really stressed out I feel like I have mad ptsd from what happened to my mare and it’s making waiting for these two foals so stressful. All I do is think about what if something goes wrong again! What about the pics above isn’t that wax on my chestnut? There’s two photos a day apart can you please look. Now that I know she’s in foal for sure what else could that be?


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 15, 2022)

I’ve looked. I have numerous pictures of identical overzealous plugs for weeks before foaling. Actually some more than a month out. It’s just my opinion. Doesn’t mean I’m right.


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## ValerieS (Apr 15, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> I’ve looked. I have numerous pictures of identical overzealous plugs for weeks before foaling. Actually some more than a month out. It’s just my opinion. Doesn’t mean I’m right.





So you’re saying these are plugs? Just trying to clarify is all.


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## Taz (Apr 15, 2022)

That's so exciting that they have been confirmed in foal!!!!! It's completely understandable and I would be freaking out waiting for them after what you just went through, it's hard enough waiting for one when you know what can go wrong but having it happen and then going right back into it is almost impossible. You can at least say I told you so to your family . Did your vet have any idea on when he thought they would decide to foal?


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## ValerieS (Apr 15, 2022)

Taz said:


> That's so exciting that they have been confirmed in foal!!!!! It's completely understandable and I would be freaking out waiting for them after what you just went through, it's hard enough waiting for one when you know what can go wrong but having it happen and then going right back into it is almost impossible. You can at least say I told you so to your family . Did your vet have any idea on when he thought they would decide to foal?


Thank you Taz, My vet sent his associate who is a smaller woman hence smaller hands and i did let her palpate my mares which I’m usually against in minis especially cuz everything makes me nervous right now. I know when they were exposed sometime in May. I removed the stallion May 30th so they’re at least 320 days


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 17, 2022)

A real simple way to test if it’s true wax. Try to express milk to ph test. If you can’t, it’s not wax. If you can and it tests high it’s not wax. If it tests low, then it may be wax. But at this point she would have been waxing for almost a week which is an unusual length of time for her not to have foaled yet. You did the right thing getting a vet check. Now you can stop the wondering game which I know from experience is miserable. Plus it allows you to prepare more certainly. Hopefully they don’t make you wait too long! And don’t forget, some can build an udder literally overnight or even right after they foal.


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## ValerieS (Apr 17, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> A real simple way to test if it’s true wax. Try to express milk to ph test. If you can’t, it’s not wax. If you can and it tests high it’s not wax. If it tests low, then it may be wax. But at this point she would have been waxing for almost a week which is an unusual length of time for her not to have foaled yet. You did the right thing getting a vet check. Now you can stop the wondering game which I know is miserable. Plus it allows you to prepare more certainly.


I’ve never used those ph strips could you tell me where I can buy some what are they called, the procedure to do the test and what the numbers are and mean? I’d like to try it actually I see so many people on here use them. 
My biggest challenge will be her cooperation she’s such a sweet girl usually but today tried to bite me when I was trying to take a pic of her udder, also had a meltdown when I lifted her tail.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 17, 2022)

You can buy them pretty much at any pool store and many supermarkets. I get them from Walmart. I know you said you removed the stallion May 30th, any chance they shared a fence? And they don’t have access to fescue correct? I did not realize they were a minimum of 320 days. I thought all your mares were about the same gestation. So now moving to see why there is not much of an udder yet.


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## ValerieS (Apr 17, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> You can buy them pretty much at any pool store and many supermarkets. I get them from Walmart. I know you said you removed the stallion May 30th, any chance they shared a fence? And they don’t have access to fescue correct? I did not realize they were a minimum of 320 days. I thought all your mares were about the same gestation. So now moving to see why there is not much of an udder yet.


They did share a fence line but I never saw him trying that. This is also a different stallion from my other mare who lost her baby. 
These two mares were blood tested one was positive one was negative. 
In late July my other stallion broke down the fence line and I caught him covering my mare (the one who lost the baby) you could tell by her messy rear that it probably wasn’t the first time. I ran to my other girls they were in that pasture too, the ones I’m posting about now, lifted their tails it was completely clean looked untouched to me. I looked because I knew they were bred to my other stallion but didn’t know if they were pregnant yet it had only been two months. When i did have the blood test done a month later the chestnut came up positive there was no way it would have showed that already if it happened a month ago. As for my dun her negative was based on very low progesterone but she had high estrone sulfate so kinda confusing and wondering if the progesterone level was an error but I never thought of her as pregnant until like 2 weeks ago when I noticed body changes. 
I hope you’re able to follow this soap opera LOL and yes no fescue at all I haven’t let them graze because I don’t know if our pastures contain wild fescue and I buy good hay and feed that’s not suppose to contain any fescue ugh makes me nervous as usual. Isn’t it common for maidens to not have a bag until labor onset or early after the birth?


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 17, 2022)

Gotcha. No it’s not common. It happens occasionally so you can’t rule it out, but it is not common. Many of the stories you see of it happening there is 12 hrs between checks. An udder can change a LOT in 12 hrs. So that results in many people missing it change. But it does happen on occasion. And I know several people in this group have had it go from nothing to something to a foal very fast. Glad that you can rule out fescue. I’ve heard of them sneaking breedings through a fence unseen. But your dates sound pretty good. If they don’t foal before too long I’d be considering that possibility. My mares aren’t usually messy after breeding so that date would be interesting if you hadn’t already done a blood test. That does through a wrench in it. Many mares are going long this year so maybe they’ll stick to that trend. Or maybe they’ll break the mold and build an udder last minute. That’s what can be so frustrating about breeding minis. You have to prepare for every possibility however rare.


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## HersheyMint (Apr 17, 2022)

HI, I'm following your soap opera  as you say. Learning as I read. I fine it all interesting, as I know not a thing about pregnancies. What is the issue with fescue? Is it with pregnant minis or all ?


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 17, 2022)

There is an endophyte fungus that is present in most fescue. If I bred mare eats it in the last trimester it can cause fescue toxicity. This can result in prolonged gestation, little to no udder development, and thickened amniotic sacs which make it very hard for the foal to break without help. So if there is a chance that they were on fescue (not in this case as it’s been confirmed they were kept off of it) you HAVE to be present in many cases to save the foal. You will likely have to have colostrum replacer and possibly milk replacer.


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## Taz (Apr 17, 2022)

The pool strips are really easy to use. You need to either get a drop or two into a plastic cup of some kind or directly onto the strip, do not use your hand, it can effect the reading. Dip the part of the strip the is for pH. Every strip is i little different, they will tell you on the bottle how long to dip it for and when to read it. You can check the hardness as well. You have to dilute the milk for an accurate reading but you can do it without diluting and just look at whether the number is going up. The hardness goes up before the pH goes down. If they aren't ready the pH will be 8-9. As it drops they are getting closer, anywhere from 6 1/2 down and you should be on high alert. If you start getting 7 then keep a close watch, they can change very fast. Maybe baby test strips have the numbers and what they mean on their site if you google it.


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## HersheyMint (Apr 17, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> There is an endophyte fungus that is present in most fescue. If I bred mare eats it in the last trimester it can cause fescue toxicity. This can result in prolonged gestation, little to no udder development, and thickened amniotic sacs which make it very hard for the foal to break without help. So if there is a chance that they were on fescue (not in this case as it’s been confirmed they were kept off of it) you HAVE to be present in many cases to save the foal. You will likely have to have colostrum replacer and possibly milk replacer.


Wow! Thank you for that information. That is good to know.


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## ValerieS (Apr 17, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Gotcha. No it’s not common. It happens occasionally so you can’t rule it out, but it is not common. Many of the stories you see of it happening there is 12 hrs between checks. An udder can change a LOT in 12 hrs. So that results in many people missing it change. But it does happen on occasion. And I know several people in this group have had it go from nothing to something to a foal very fast. Glad that you can rule out fescue. I’ve heard of them sneaking breedings through a fence unseen. But your dates sound pretty good. If they don’t foal before too long I’d be considering that possibility. My mares aren’t usually messy after breeding so that date would be interesting if you hadn’t already done a blood test. That does through a wrench in it. Many mares are going long this year so maybe they’ll stick to that trend. Or maybe they’ll break the mold and build an udder last minute. That’s what can be so frustrating about breeding minis. You have to prepare for every possibility however rare.


I’m so stumped yeah their udders still aren’t anything to cheer about. What i meant also by messy was they usually act all squirty and gross to the stallions so there’s stuff at least dried down their back legs and they were both so clean literally not a spot. 
You said above the oozy teat could be an overzealous plugs whats that exactly and why does it occur?


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## ValerieS (Apr 17, 2022)

Taz said:


> The pool strips are really easy to use. You need to either get a drop or two into a plastic cup of some kind or directly onto the strip, do not use your hand, it can effect the reading. Dip the part of the strip the is for pH. Every strip is i little different, they will tell you on the bottle how long to dip it for and when to read it. You can check the hardness as well. You have to dilute the milk for an accurate reading but you can do it without diluting and just look at whether the number is going up. The hardness goes up before the pH goes down. If they aren't ready the pH will be 8-9. As it drops they are getting closer, anywhere from 6 1/2 down and you should be on high alert. If you start getting 7 then keep a close watch, they can change very fast. Maybe baby test strips have the numbers and what they mean on their site if you google it.


Thank you for all that info I’m gonna check Amazon maybe I can prime some


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 17, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> I’m so stumped yeah their udders still aren’t anything to cheer about. What i meant also by messy was they usually act all squirty and gross to the stallions so there’s stuff at least dried down their back legs and they were both so clean literally not a spot.
> You said above the oozy teat could be an overzealous plugs whats that exactly and why does it occur?



Gotcha. So as I believe you know, all mares have plugs in their teats. It helps prevent infection. When they get closer to foaling they can get pushed out or they fall out. I’m not exactly sure why some are bigger than others. Could be genetics or just environment. A lot of times when it’s yellow like that they call it fools gold. Because it does resemble wax. But it’s not true waxed colostrum. Here’s one of mine. She always gets bigger plugs once I start ph testing her too. This particular picture was 2ish weeks before she foaled. She’d had an udder for 1.5 months already too.


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## ValerieS (Apr 18, 2022)

View attachment 46871
View attachment 46870


elizabeth.conder said:


> Gotcha. So as I believe you know, all mares have plugs in their teats. It helps prevent infection. When they get closer to foaling they can get pushed out or they fall out. I’m not exactly sure why some are bigger than others. Could be genetics or just environment. A lot of times when it’s yellow like that they call it fools gold. Because it does resemble wax. But it’s not true waxed colostrum. Here’s one of mine. She always gets bigger plugs once I start ph testing her too. This particular picture was 2ish weeks before she foaled. She’d had an udder for 1.5 months already too.


Oh ok well that makes a lot of sense actually thanks!


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## ValerieS (Apr 18, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Gotcha. No it’s not common. It happens occasionally so you can’t rule it out, but it is not common. Many of the stories you see of it happening there is 12 hrs between checks. An udder can change a LOT in 12 hrs. So that results in many people missing it change. But it does happen on occasion. And I know several people in this group have had it go from nothing to something to a foal very fast. Glad that you can rule out fescue. I’ve heard of them sneaking breedings through a fence unseen. But your dates sound pretty good. If they don’t foal before too long I’d be considering that possibility. My mares aren’t usually messy after breeding so that date would be interesting if you hadn’t already done a blood test. That does through a wrench in it. Many mares are going long this year so maybe they’ll stick to that trend. Or maybe they’ll break the mold and build an udder last minute. That’s what can be so frustrating about breeding minis. You have to prepare for every possibility however rare.
> [/QUOTE
> So in reality how many days would it be when it would start to feel too long and at that point would maybe have to reconsider they got pregnant at another time which confuses me due to the pregnancy tests but still…I obviously know gestational length BUT coming from experienced breeders what’s considered not so “normal” length. Since i have two confirmed in foal there’s no way they both would follow the “not so norm” ya know? Although my Dun who initially came back negative could have gotten pregnant at another time I’m so confusedand thanks for letting me pick your brain


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## Taz (Apr 18, 2022)

I had one go 356 days.
I still think it's all a guessing game, sorry. If you don't have foals by 335 or at least they don't look like their getting there then the later date when your other stud broke in is probably right. 
Are you planning on gelding them? LOL. I snip everyone who comes on the property as soon as I can and I'm still having problems with oops babies. If you hear a thud it's me banging my head against a wall


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## ValerieS (Apr 18, 2022)

Taz said:


> I had one go 356 days.
> I still think it's all a guessing game, sorry. If you don't have foals by 335 or at least they don't look like their getting there then the later date when your other stud broke in is probably right.
> Are you planning on gelding them? LOL. I snip everyone who comes on the property as soon as I can and I'm still having problems with oops babies. If you hear a thud it's me banging my head against a wall


hahahaha! The one that broke in was gelded less then a month later kid you not look at the time stamp on the pic The other is quite young thought he was going to be a double crypt but he did drop them, however when the vet was gelding the other they sedated him and could only palpate one testicles but he definitely had two down prior. They said give him until this following season and if not he has to go in and have it done at the equine hospital which sucks of course 
I’ll just continue to watch crazily then at their udders like I’ve been doing


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## Taz (Apr 18, 2022)

I hate putting them through being gelded especially when they are older but it's much better for everyone. I see you definitely got 2 there . I have one that didn't drop the second until he was 2, don't give up on that.
Don't take my word for it, I'm no pro, Elizabeth might have a better idea.


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## ValerieS (Apr 18, 2022)

Taz said:


> I hate putting them through being gelded especially when they are older but it's much better for everyone. I see you definitely got 2 there . I have one that didn't drop the second until he was 2, don't give up on that.
> Don't take my word for it, I'm no pro, Elizabeth might have a better idea.


Yeah this guy had two willing participantsthe other guy is uncooperative


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## ValerieS (Apr 19, 2022)

Does any of this look like foal movement lol I’m not sure what else it could be she was just standing in the barn stall and I was trying to get a photo of her non existent udder but she kept kicking her belly 






- YouTube


Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.




youtube.com


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## Taz (Apr 19, 2022)

I'd call that foal movement, little bugger wants out!!


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## ValerieS (Apr 19, 2022)

My Dun made some udder progress last night don’t you agree??? First pic is yesterday 2nd is today


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## Silver City Heritage Farmstead (Apr 19, 2022)

Looks like a tiny beginning!


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 19, 2022)

Yup I agree, definitely a start.


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## ValerieS (Apr 19, 2022)

Ok here’s my other mare 1st pic this morning 2nd pic now, what do you think???


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## Taz (Apr 20, 2022)

Looks like their starting to get with the program


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## ValerieS (Apr 20, 2022)

Look at this belly on my cam today! Should I let her out in the pasture for the day what would you do?


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## Taz (Apr 20, 2022)

I never keep mine in during the day, I think it's better for them to go out and move around, better for their minds too. IF you were getting a pH reading of 6 or she looks ready MAYBE keep her in but if you can watch her outside too let her out.


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## ValerieS (Apr 20, 2022)

Here’s the newest just hours after the previous and i think they’re more full cuz the crease is disappearing or did they shrink???? First is my Dun second Chestnut. Am i correct in assuming they could go anytime as they’re both maidens or is that incorrect thinking?


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## ValerieS (Apr 21, 2022)

Awe she’s a confused little maiden








She got super annoyed by her baby







youtube.com


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## Taz (Apr 21, 2022)

I wouldn't be thinking they could go anytime. They both look like they have a lot more getting ready to do. Maidens, and any mare, CAN foal without any or very much udder development but it is not common. Absolutely keep watching them, I would be because you never know, but try to relax and wait to go on full alert until they give you more to go on. It's normal for their udders to go up and down before they get serious and really start to fill, it looks like they went down to me. Hang in there.


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## NoahG (Apr 21, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Awe she’s a confused little maiden
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Poor little mama


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## Taz (Apr 21, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Awe she’s a confused little maiden
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Poor girl, it's so hard when they don't know what the alien is.


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## Standards Equine (Apr 21, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Ok here’s my other mare 1st pic this morning 2nd pic now, what do you think???
> View attachment 46899
> View attachment 46900


Do you know what their expected due date is? To me, they don't look anywhere near close. I wouldn't be suspicious of a mare with these udders to be in foal - at least not expecting to be delivering a foal at any time.


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## ValerieS (Apr 22, 2022)

Standards Equine said:


> Do you know what their expected due date is? To me, they don't look anywhere near close. I wouldn't be suspicious of a mare with these udders to be in foal - at least not expecting to be delivering a foal at any time.


Hi Karen oh and “Elizabeth”  My vet says both of you do not seem to understand maiden mares and it’s extremely common to have them go into labor without many foaling signs including a bag. I already knew this as I did tell Elizabeth prior that my one mini birth on my property she had NO bag at all when she foaled. Elizabeth also knows my vet palpated these mares and confirmed pregnancy but she still liked a comment where Karen said “i wouldn’t be suspicious of a mare with these to even be in foal” Karen I’m really sorry you’re having a bad day and needed to give your less then kind two cents but thank you for stopping byI’ll keep the rest of my mares pregnancy to myself as i prefer to enjoy it without the Debbie downers, cheers!


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## LostandFound (Apr 22, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Hi Karen oh and “Elizabeth”  My vet says both of you do not seem to understand maiden mares and it’s extremely common to have them go into labor without many foaling signs including a bag. I already knew this as I did tell Elizabeth prior that my one mini birth on my property she had NO bag at all when she foaled. Elizabeth also knows my vet palpated these mares and confirmed pregnancy but she still liked a comment where Karen said “i wouldn’t be suspicious of a mare with these to even be in foal” Karen I’m really sorry you’re having a bad day and needed to give your less then kind two cents but thank you for stopping byI’ll keep the rest of my mares pregnancy to myself as i prefer to enjoy it without the Debbie downers, cheers!


Wow.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 22, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Hi Karen oh and “Elizabeth”  My vet says both of you do not seem to understand maiden mares and it’s extremely common to have them go into labor without many foaling signs including a bag. I already knew this as I did tell Elizabeth prior that my one mini birth on my property she had NO bag at all when she foaled. Elizabeth also knows my vet palpated these mares and confirmed pregnancy but she still liked a comment where Karen said “i wouldn’t be suspicious of a mare with these to even be in foal” Karen I’m really sorry you’re having a bad day and needed to give your less then kind two cents but thank you for stopping byI’ll keep the rest of my mares pregnancy to myself as i prefer to enjoy it without the Debbie downers, cheers!




Wow....okay I am sorry for trying to help. I wish you would stop reading into things because once again you made incorrect assumptions. I AM sorry you feel that way.


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## Standards Equine (Apr 22, 2022)

ValerieS said:


> Hi Karen oh and “Elizabeth”  My vet says both of you do not seem to understand maiden mares and it’s extremely common to have them go into labor without many foaling signs including a bag. I already knew this as I did tell Elizabeth prior that my one mini birth on my property she had NO bag at all when she foaled. Elizabeth also knows my vet palpated these mares and confirmed pregnancy but she still liked a comment where Karen said “i wouldn’t be suspicious of a mare with these to even be in foal” Karen I’m really sorry you’re having a bad day and needed to give your less then kind two cents but thank you for stopping byI’ll keep the rest of my mares pregnancy to myself as i prefer to enjoy it without the Debbie downers, cheers!



Hi, I'm Amanda... Um, I guess I hope your mares have really easy births with happy, healthy, strong babies that thrive. My apologies if I said anything offensive. Not sure how I got to be a Karen or who Elizabeth is... Best wishes to you and your mares. Cheers.


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## Kelly (Apr 22, 2022)

LostandFound said:


> Wow.



Agree. Wow.


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## HersheyMint (Apr 22, 2022)

I appreciated everyone's help and knowledge on here. It's to bad a misunderstanding is going on, cuz I don't think it is normal  .( a little pun on the topic to make light)


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 23, 2022)

Ive been a member of this forum for many years now & have admired others for stopping by and giving up their time to offer advice and suggestions to people they don't even know. I haven't had a chance to sign in and post of late but I do read up on whats been happening via the email I receive daily.

Its often hard to determine "anything" based off pictures alone , but members give their opinion bases off their own previous experiences & knowledge & what amazing people these are, giving up their time , to help someone else, a stranger.

Valarie, please do keep the rest of the pregnancies to yourself , you have offended enough members here now & how dare you tell someone there opinion is Worthless or "worth less than two cents" as you put it.

Admin - who is moderator of this section these days ? Years ago this would never have been tolerated, one speaking to another like this .............


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## NoahG (Apr 24, 2022)

Ryan Johnson said:


> Ive been a member of this forum for many years now & have admired others for stopping by and giving up their time to offer advice and suggestions to people they don't even know. I haven't had a chance to sign in and post of late but I do read up on whats been happening via the email I receive daily.
> 
> Its often hard to determine "anything" based off pictures alone , but members give their opinion bases off their own previous experiences & knowledge & what amazing people these are, giving up their time , to help someone else, a stranger.
> 
> ...


I have never seen anything like this on the forums (I've been a member only a few months but checked threads occasionally in years past). That took a really rapid turn.


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