# Picking a harness



## PintoPalLover (Oct 6, 2016)

Hi everyone,

This is my first post so hopefully I do everything right.




I got my first mini 4 years ago and after having her (Magnolia) for 2 years I got Sugar when she was 3 1/2 months old. I've been ground driving Magnolia for a while so I know the basics of harnessing/harness parts . I'd like to start Sugar this winter , so my biggest question so far is what harness do you recommend ? She fairly small boned and around 32" . I've read a lot of the past articles on this subject and I'm leaning towards the Ozark Mt. russet pleasure harness, I like the Comfy Fit harness but I'm afraid that it would swallow Sugar up. I wouldn't have her actually pulling much weight till she's 3 next year. Any tips are appreciated ! I already have a cart but I haven't hitched Magnolia yet and I think Sugar will enjoy it more so I want to focus on Sugar's driving stuff more so and get her pulling first.

Thanks !

P.P.L.


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## Marsha Cassada (Oct 7, 2016)

I think you would be pleased with the Ozark.

There are so many harness choices now! Also depends on how much you want to spend and whether you plan to show or drive for pleasure. If 15 folks reply to this topic, they will probably all have a different harness!

The biggest issue, IMO, is the fit of the bridle. What ever harness set you buy, just keep working with the supplier until your bridle is fitted correctly. The rest of the harness has lots of room for adjustment, but the bridle is so critical.

My first harness came from Big Dee 15 years ago. It actually has the nicest bridle for fit that I've owned. The blinders are well made and adjustable. The leather is soft and supple. Alas, that set it no longer offered. I fear the Chinese have cornered the leather market instead of Mexico, where most of the previous leather goods were made. The leather workers in Mexico knew leather and tack. Not sure the Chinese have a clue...

I'm still using my first harness. I have tweaked it with other parts over the years. I believe that is the nature of a well-used harness!

Used to be also to search the Forum for topics, but I can't seem to get that feature to work very well any more. Harnesses have been discussed in depth many times over the years here.

I purchased sheepskin pads for the breast collar for a small mare I drove. If you feel the V collar is too clunky for your girl, that might be an answer. I ordered the big horse halter set from Equine Comfort Products and it was perfect. 877-580-9735 is their phone number. The pad velcros over the breast collar.

Looking forward to hearing more about your driving adventures!


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## Strangeaddiction (Oct 7, 2016)

I got my starter/work harness from Star Lake, super affordable for a nice leather harness (nice enough to show in if you wanted to do that). Like Marsha said, the bridle is the hardest part to find a fit, and honestly no harness maker is going to make one bridle that fits all so I feel it is important to find someone willing to work with you. The gal at star lake was amazing at helping me, you can even send measurements to her and she'll help you with the bridle and harness fit before she sends it, if something doesn't fit, send it back and she'll help you with a piece that does. I have heard great things about ozark as well, but I would go for an estate harness, the guy does AMAZING work, almost everyone at my barn has an estate harness and I am saving up to have him make me a show harness. His basic harness is a little more expensive than the star lake but I think higher quality leather.


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## MajorClementine (Oct 7, 2016)

My first harness was from Ozark. I've replaced some parts of it with Comfy Fit but I'm still using it. If you buy a good harness the first time around you'll be happy you did. Stay away from inexpensive nylon harnesses.

I've seen all sizes of the Comfy Fit in person. I don't think it would look too big on your mare. I was worried about the Deluxe Breast Collar being too big on my narrow chested fine boned mini but Clementine is so much more comfortable with having more surface area to pull from vs. when she was in her thinner straight breast collar.


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## PintoPalLover (Oct 7, 2016)

Thanks for replying everybody



. It's sounds like everybody's pretty easy to work with at various places so that should be very helpful.

I'm not planning on showing ,maybe someday in the far away future , mainly I want a quality harness that's comfortable for her. I'm chewing on my options now ,I know the bridles important and that's what I'm most worried about . I'd really like to get it in russet or brown and I like Comfy Fit's options for that. I hadn't seen the Estate harness before, it's looks nice , too .

I don't know why but I always thought of Star Lakes harnesses as show harnesses (which are very pretty from there !) but it's looks like they might have one that's comparable to Ozarks. I'll definitely let you know what I decide



Thanks again !

I'll try to post a picture of Sugar yet , too.


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## PintoPalLover (Oct 7, 2016)

Okay, I hope this works. Sugar in her 'summer slicks'.


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## xrdh (Oct 13, 2016)

You can't lose with Comfy Fit. The harnesses are well made (in the USA) and are really nicely padded. The customer service is great, too. They won't quit until you're happy. I have three minis and all three have (finally) been upgraded to Comfy Fits. The Deluxe Deep V breast collar is a must for our cute, but short necked minis (it won't choke them out going uphill), and the sliding back band saddle is critical if you plan to drive in the rough, or on uneven ground. Those are the two upgrades I made to my harnesses. Love them!


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## PintoPalLover (Oct 13, 2016)

Thanks for replying xrdh! The Comfy Fit getting pretty tempting, I've only heard wonderful things about it and their customer service. I'm hoping to come to a decision soon, you'd think it be easy, I guess I'm just going to have to make up my mind. :/


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## dalvers63 (Oct 17, 2016)

I'm coming late to the topic but also have to put in a good word for the Comfy Fit. I went through the same process as you when I got Mikey and ended up buying the black/brown synthetic Comfy Fit with the deep V breastcollar. I love it and will be getting another one when I get a slightly bigger horse in the near future.

You can't go wrong and won't be buying another harness anytime soon!


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## PintoPalLover (Oct 18, 2016)

Thanks for replying dalvers63 ! I was just getting on here to say I ordered my harness today , I decided on Ozarks russet pleasure harness for now but I think a Comfy Fit will probably be in my future, I still really like them and what I've heard about them. I think the Ozark's will make a good starter harness for us though. I'm planning on posting pictures sometime once I get it.



​


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## Marsha Cassada (Oct 18, 2016)

PintoPalLover said:


> Thanks for replying dalvers63 ! I was just getting on here to say I ordered my harness today , I decided on Ozarks russet pleasure harness for now but I think a Comfy Fit will probably be in my future, I still really like them and what I've heard about them. I think the Ozark's will make a good starter harness for us though. I'm planning on posting pictures sometime once I get it.
> 
> 
> 
> ​


I think you'll be pleased. Be sure the bridle fits. Ozark will work with you if it does not. Don't give up until it does. I am not sure what the mystery is about making driving bridles, but there seems to be a hoodoo on them. Sometimes the throat latch seems measured for a chihuahua. Sometimes the headstall seems made for a Belgian. The last one I bought I had to take to a leather guy and have him put thicker gauge wire in the blinders; I think bread ties were used originally. Just keep tweaking.


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 13, 2016)

I'm just past the 3 week mark for the harness , out of 3 to 4 weeks , so I'm getting pretty excited to see/feel it


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## TICA (Nov 15, 2016)

I was wondering if you were pleased with the Ozarks russet pleasure harness? We are in the same dilemma of choosing a harness that is a good starter harness. I have looked at the Ozark one and am considering it. Can you tell me if the russet color is ok to show in or does it need to be black? 

I would also like input on a good quality cart.

Thanks


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 16, 2016)

The harness hasn't got here yet, but the customer service at Ozark has been good so far. I've never shown a driving horse but, I'd say for most classes black would be better and for some classes/shows I think russet would probably be okay if it's what you want



, it all kind of depends. I don't think there are any rules about what color your harness has to be but black is more traditional.

Would it be breed shows or 'open' shows more so ?

As for carts, I've heard some good things about Frontier Equestrian's carts and I like some of their options , although I've never had one. I haven't ever looked into show carts so I can't help you much there, but I'd think you'd want a training cart and a show cart if your serious about showing.

I plan to post pictures and say how I like the harness once I get it





P.P.L.


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## TICA (Nov 16, 2016)

We are going to do open/breed shows on a local level. If you don't mind (after your harness arrives) would you let me know what you think of the leather quality etc. I love the russet color but was thinking, like you stated, that black would probably be preferred. As far as carts we are debating on the metal verses wood for the shafts and don't know about the weight difference. Thanks for your help


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 16, 2016)

Sure, I don't mind at all . It seems like there isn't as much out there on the two starter harnesses from Ozark.

For local shows I wouldn't be afraid to get the color of harness you want , you might want to buy another harness eventually, just for showing if you really enjoy it .

I haven't actually driven (hitched to a cart) that much before so I can't help you too much with cart stuff, but as far as metal vs wood shafts for weight difference I think metal ones are going to lighter.


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## TICA (Nov 17, 2016)

I talked with an Amish harness maker today he is a little more than Ozark. He was talking about bio being cheaper but I have heard mixed reviews on the bio harness. I'm thinking you can't go wrong with leather.

Are handholds something that I should consider adding? Also, is there a preference for the tie verses the buckle to hold the shafts?

I have never driven before and am trying to make an informed decision on a harness that will work to get started and also be good enough for showing.


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## Minimor (Nov 17, 2016)

I started out with the pleasure harness (black) from Ozark and was very happy with it. I then purchased 3 of their carriage harnesses and sold the pleasure harness.

Personally I would buy the Camptown harness rather than the Comfy Fit.

On principle.


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## jventresca (Nov 18, 2016)

Purchasing a harness is a big investment. If you think you'll only own one harness consider how much time you'll spend showing versus driving for fun. If you're a serious show person you'll want to have a work harness and one that's just for shows.

Everybody loves a russet colored harness. The main reason they're not more popular is its very hard to maintain that wonderful color if you use it at all. It stains from sweat and needs to be oiled to stay supple. Oil will make it darker too. If you truly love the color consider a biothane harness that won't darken with age. I purchased a black harness with russet trim on the breastcollar, breeching, brow band, and nose band. After using it for a few years the russet was almost black and looked like poorly stained black leather. I went ahead and stained it, added a new brow band made with a bead of gold leather, updated the breastcollar and have a new looking harness!


FYI - If you decide to show in ADS shows remember that your carriage fittings need to match your harness, for example with russet harness the leather on the carriage must be russet also, the running gear (any metal parts that aren't brass or chrome) must be painted dark brown. For ADS even a black harness should have ALL brown reins, not reins that are half black and half brown. *Please remember that these ADS rules are only a matter of a few points. I've won a turnout class with a marathon cart and chrome fittings just because my horse went better than all the others.*

For myself I'm hooked on leather. I love how it feels in my hands and on the horse. I get my harnesses directly from the harness maker so I can ask for any bell or whistle I want. BUT you have to know what you want.

TICA - You asked about using a wrap strap or a buckle down over girth. This can make a BIG difference! If you're only going to drive in a ring and planning to show in breed shows only a wrap strap is what you want. The wrap strap basically ties the shafts to the horse's sides. This can allow the horse to pull the cart with his back and can eliminate the need for a breeching. You can tell the horse is pulling with his back when the traces are flapping loosely.

IF you plan to drive outside a ring, down the road, over hill and dale, PLEASE use a buckle down over girth with an open tug. The horse will be able to pull all the weight of the cart with his chest using the breastcollar. The open tug will allow the shafts to "float" meaning as you go over bumps the shafts will go up and down, not jarring the horse or you. The over girth should never be tighter than the girth or they can rub the horse's belly raw. I hope you can see how the shaft can move in the tug in this picture.




Sorry to go on and on. You can tell I'm passionate about harness!


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 18, 2016)

Minimor, I'm glad you liked your harnesses from Ozark , I'm getting anxious for mine to arrive.





I think jventresca put everything wonderfully





TICA , is your mini already trained to drive ? Also, if you look back in this post, Strangeaddiction recommended Star Lake tack harnesses and said they were nice enough to show in.

And as to handholds, personally , I don't really like anything that I have my hand 'caught' in that's attached to a horse, but that's just a personal opinion (and I should add, I've never personally used them.), I don't really think they're dangerous and might be helpful in some cases. Gloves are a good idea for driving, too, and don't forget a helmet.


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## Cayuse (Nov 18, 2016)

I'm going to ad my two cents and say that like leather so much better than beta or biothane. I purchased a harness this fall (it was beta or bio, forgive me for not remembering) and I find it stiff and the headstall very clunky looking compared to my leather harness. It does not have that nice pliable feel that good leather has. That's just my preference, other people I know love theirs.


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 18, 2016)

I do agree that leather is special




And I appreciate all the two cents anybody wants to give


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## TICA (Nov 18, 2016)

Wow I'm learning more in every post...please keep the "two cents" coming! I am all ears and eager to learn.


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## TICA (Nov 18, 2016)

I started out with the pleasure harness (black) from Ozark and was very happy with it. I then purchased 3 of their carriage harnesses and sold the pleasure harness.

Minimor, I was looking at the carriage harness from Ozark and really liked the look of it. What did you favor from the carriage harness verses the pleasure? The quote from the Amish harness maker was about the price of the carriage harness.


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 18, 2016)

I know you didn't ask me but I'll give my opinion anyway



I think the Carriage harness from Ozark has a few nice upgraded features (compared to their starter harnesses), such as the shaped breast collar. The leather looks nice, too. If you're fine with black and a little higher of a price I think it's a good option.


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## TICA (Nov 18, 2016)

PintoPalLover said:


> I know you didn't ask me but I'll give my opinion anyway
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Carriage harness from Ozark has a few nice upgraded features (compared to their starter harnesses), such as the shaped breast collar. The leather looks nice, too. If you're fine with black and a little higher of a price I think it's a good option.


Oh that is fine PintoPalLover! Do you like the v shaped breast collar would be suitable for just starting? I'm thinking for the horse. Also, do you know if you need to use an overcheck for the AMHA/AMHR shows? Which do you use the sidecheck or the overcheck?


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 18, 2016)

The v shaped breast collar is just for comfort so I'm sure it's fine for just starting. I don't believe it matters whether or not you use a overcheck or sidecheck as far as rules (It would probably say if you looked it up in the rulebooks), but I do think it's a requirement to use one or the other for AMHA and/or AMHR. From everything I've heard , the sidecheck is prefered for being nice to the horse though (currently , I don't use one at all.)


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## TICA (Nov 19, 2016)

TICA - You asked about using a wrap strap or a buckle down over girth. This can make a BIG difference! If you're only going to drive in a ring and planning to show in breed shows only a wrap strap is what you want. The wrap strap basically ties the shafts to the horse's sides. This can allow the horse to pull the cart with his back and can eliminate the need for a breeching. You can tell the horse is pulling with his back when the traces are flapping loosely.

IF you plan to drive outside a ring, down the road, over hill and dale, PLEASE use a buckle down over girth with an open tug. The horse will be able to pull all the weight of the cart with his chest using the breastcollar. The open tug will allow the shafts to "float" meaning as you go over bumps the shafts will go up and down, not jarring the horse or you. The over girth should never be tighter than the girth or they can rub the horse's belly raw. I hope you can see how the shaft can move in the tug in this picture.

jventresca, Thanks so much for the insights


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## Minimor (Nov 19, 2016)

The carriage harness is a step up in quality over the pleasure harness --it has roller buckles (always an indicator of quality! Buckles are the first thing i check when I look at a harness!) and overall is just nicer quality. And yes, the shaped breast collar is nice to have. Breech in is better--it has the split strap, the pleasure harness does not.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 19, 2016)

Side check and over check do different things. Some driving bridles do not come with side check rings. All trainers have their own opinions about checks. You will have to weigh everything and make your own choices--usually through trial and error!

A check is required in AMHA. Also blinders are required.

Whatever harness you purchase, make sure everything fits properly! If you are not sure, take pictures and send them to the seller and ask. I know for sure that Ozark will work with you, and I'm sure most other companies will also.


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## Strangeaddiction (Nov 22, 2016)

Ill add my personal opinon on bio vs leather. I personally will never use bio/beta over leather because leather can and will break. Now that might seem backwards but if you get in a bad position, horse spooks, flips etc (goodness forbid that happen, I personally have never been in that position, but have seen it numerous times) the leather will break causing less havoc.....bio will NOT break and can cause more damage to your cart/horse etc..... Just like nylon halters on horses turned out is not a good idea unless there are leather break-aways on it.... Just my personal opinion. Bio is definitely more low maintenance as you can just hose it down.


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 22, 2016)

Got a email last night saying the harness would ship in a week, the manufacter got a batch of leather he didn't like the quality of (why it's gonna take more like 5 - 6 weeks inside of 3 to 4).

Strangeaddiction, that's why I was told to always use leather , too. Thanks for your opinion !


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 22, 2016)

After my experience with my sister last week when her green horse had a bucking fit and twizzled himself into a pretzel: the leather sort of stretched, or gave a little. We were able to pull the straps out of the buckles. No harm done. Would bio have that give? Neither of us had a knife, as I was in the sulky and not my cart with the toolbox.


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 24, 2016)

Well, since nobody with personal bio experience has gotten on here , I'll give my opinion



I think at that point bio would probably have a little give but not as much a leather does. I didn't think about taking a knife with when you drive , but it is a good idea.

And Happy Thanksgiving everyone


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## Cayuse (Nov 24, 2016)

I agree, it might give a little but not much. One of the "selling points" on the bio/beta harness I bought was that it "would not stretch" like leather. I never gave it much thought one way or the other at the time but after reading Marsha's post, I would feel safer with leather. I am looking now for another harness as the bio one has been a thorn in my side (fit issues that seller won't resolve) and it won't be bio.


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## Peggy Porter (Nov 24, 2016)

LOVE my beta harnesses! Make sure you buy a good quality harness. No conway buckles, no rivets.

I have one incident to share. My mini was wearing a leather bridle. I had unhitched him and handed him off to someone to hold. He dropped his head to graze, and when he lifted it up he caught the throat latch of the bridle on the step of my carriage. He panicked and dragged the carriage a few feet before I got to him. This is a 250 lb carriage, dragged with a 1/4" wide leather strap. It stretched out slightly, but didn't break. I always carry a knife in my pocket, not on the carriage. I don't want anything to break, if I have to cut it I'm prepared.


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## MajorClementine (Nov 25, 2016)

I am okay with beta or bio harnesses. However, leather collars and leather headstalls even if the rest of the tack is synthetic. Synthetic headstalls tend to rub sores (behind the ears especially). The synthetic is easy to clean and care for.

I have the Ozark pleasure in black and am upgrading to a comfy fit after visiting the family in Iowa who makes them. I already have the deluxe deep v breast collar and it's really made a difference. I got the black leather padding because I like the leather against the horse. Also I'm having a leather headstall made.


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## paintponylvr (Nov 25, 2016)

I, too, can give some opinions. I have not used all types of harness but have had exposure to many in training and while attending events. I've asked questions of folks at many events - plow days w/ pleasure and work harness; CDE's; carriage driving classes at breed shows; even asking questions of many AMHR/ASPC & Hackney owners as long ago as the 80's & 90's.

I got a Hackney pony mare in 97 that came with a leather, nylon & cord training harness and jog cart and a leather show harness and Jerald show cart. Both were minus the breeching and worked with wrap straps to pull the cart more from the gig saddle then from the breast collar. When in a wreck with a young mare on her 3rd hitching (hit a ground wasp nest and it was UGLY) - none of the leather broke and I lost my pocket knife during the wild, runaway ride. We ended up in a heap with her legs in many places they shouldn't have been though no breaks of anything. Parts I wish had stretched had not and getting her loose, especially w/ how much I was shaking and the reaction I was having to wasp stings, was difficult. Time stood still - have no idea how long it took. May have been hours; may have been minutes (prob in-between - our young daughters DID go 2 miles up the road to get help - I was mostly done with getting her freed by the time it arrived). Eventually got the cart and her upright and then fully unhooked. She had scrapes (probably some bruises), lots of wasp stings but no major injuries. She had more damage to her young mind - I was not able to get her driving again - both of us were scared "spitless", but she did go on to become a wonderful little hunter/jumper and from what I understand is still packing young riders. I was able to go back to driving both her sire and her dam, but easily gave it up for years when kids wanted to go on riding and couldn't afford to do both... Sold the show equipment and "buried" the training gear... Loaned out my training cart for a couple of years as well...

Years later in 2009, I was so broke when I started driving, that I took used hay string (from large round bales), washed it, braided it and used that for starting our driving ponies. Once I had gotten over my own fear - both with lessons w/ other horses and ponies - and with starting our own (I had continued using ground driving for starting riding ponies), and we knew that I'd continue with driving, I started investing in harness. I also went to Draft horse driving events in our local areas and CDE's in Southern Pines, other driving events around NC. During all of this I used various types of nylon, bio/beta and leather and chain/rope.

In all harness, there are quality levels for all types and in all materials from leather to bio. I have found some will break and some will stretch BUT in all cases of the types I've used and looked at there have been incidents where it has broken when least expected or wanted and other times when it hasn't broken and could not be cut easily w/ any type of knife.

I chose to go with bio AND beta harness (they are different). I have issues with time and tack storage that make leather a PITA to take care of. I love the bio and beta for easy cleaning. Just as in leather, bio/beta has break and stretch points. The higher the quality of material - even single layers - the less likely to break or stretch. The more layers - the tougher it is to break, stretch OR cut. Lower end bio/beta, just as in leather and nylon, have large clunky bridles that are difficult to fit. The higher end products are every bit as nice as the leather can be. Leather & nylon bridles can also be large and clunky. Some of the new beta lines are just as "alive" as a good set of leather ones - I don't have any of those. Some are just as "slick" as leather when driving (or riding) in the rain!

Just as in riding, I move my lines constantly while adjusting to what I'm asking our ponies to do. I move my hands, but use the slide and take up methods much more. I hate hand loops attached - may work OK in the breed ring (haven't shown that way - doubt that I'd use hand loops, though). I think driving lines with strips sewn thru the ends like on an english or dressage bridle rein, would work wonderfully in the rain. But have neither seen nor tried that myself - just think it. The rubber grips of the bio/beta are really nice on cross country riding reins, bet they would be on driving lines as well - again I don't know since I haven't tried them myself.

And those FIRST two haystring braided harness (made in 2009 & 2010) are still in use for starting the youngsters. They take a beating and continue to work well. I've had to redo both driving lines (left them hanging on the round pen & young ponies chewed parts of them up) and the one set of single layer traces which wore out on both ends with some of the wild rodeos we had when first hooking to objects. I've replaced both the felt/nylon training surcingles I had and need to replace them again this year (3rd time).


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 26, 2016)

Thanks for all the opinions ,nice to hear a different side of things . I still love my leather , but I can see some of the advantages of bio/beta, too. I hadn't thought about checking buckle types for the quality of the harness much, but that totally makes sense. Keep the opinions coming


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## jventresca (Nov 28, 2016)

Another note about buckles - If you're getting brass ask for stainless steel tongues in your buckles for any buckle under stress. Brass is very soft and will bend and break. I agree with No Conways and roller buckles wherever you will be tightening a strap, i.e. girth. It's not so important where the buckle is for size adjustment, i.e. cheekpiece.

I'd like to chime in about checks. Each type has a specific use. You have to decide what style you need for the type of driving you want to do. AMHR and AMHA both require a check, either sidecheck or overcheck. I don't care for overchecks but they are in use for certain types of driving like Roadster. I drive American Driving Society style most of the time so I drive without a check. I use a sidecheck for training purposes. I'm always trying to get a horse to go round and an overcheck would prevent that.


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## PintoPalLover (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks for the tip on buckles, jventresca .




It's nice to get everybody's opinions and learn from their experience, especially since everybody's so nice on here.





My harness from Ozark's suppose to ship today ! Suppose to be here by the end of the week .


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## Cayuse (Dec 3, 2016)

Did your harness arrive? I can't wait to see pictures!


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 3, 2016)

Not yet,I'm hoping later today. I can't wait to see it too !


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 4, 2016)

Still no harness....


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 6, 2016)

The harness arrived today , I'm going to try to get pictures and work on the fit more tomorrow , not bad quality leather for a cheap harness but of course not really really nice leather. TICA, if you are willing to spend the money, I think the carriage harness from Ozark or a more so show harness with a removable breeching from somewhere else would better suit your needs. It looks really nice on (only tried it on pretty quick) as I said above I'll try and get good pictures tomorrow and a better update/description, I'll probably need everyone's advice on fit, too.


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 7, 2016)

Tried to post pictures but it keeps saying "file to large to upload" . I think I might be able to either fix the problem or take new 'smaller' pictures tomorrow.


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 7, 2016)

Yahoo! I think these pictures are going to work, they aren't quite as good as the 'too large' ones , but at least they're pictures...


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 7, 2016)

I forgot to put the checks in those pictures. Would anyone care to further explain the different uses of the side check and over check? I know jventresca touched on it , but I'd like to learn a little more about them.


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## Cayuse (Dec 8, 2016)

That's pretty! I like the bridle alot as the blinker/blinder stays are wide and look like they have the wires inside to keep them where you put them. I like my blinkers to be pretty far away from their eyes.

I think with the side check it is easier for the horse to round over and collect than with an overcheck as the pressure is more even on both sides of their mouth. Probably someone who has more driving experience can explain it better than I.

I tried a side check with my mini but he was fussy with it so went back to the overcheck. I can't go without a check because I drive in an area where the grass can get to be tempting, about nose high sometimes, lol. So I just keep the check on loose as a reminder.

If you do combined driving you don't use a check at all so the horse can really use himself as he does the obstacles. I took some combined driving lessons this summer and had a blast, but still used my overcheck when I had to. The instructor was open to it. What I have found is there are alot of different opinions and ideas on using a checkrein.

Do you have any pictures of the harness on your mini yet?


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## TICA (Dec 8, 2016)

PintoPalLover said:


> The harness arrived today , I'm going to try to get pictures and work on the fit more tomorrow , not bad quality leather for a cheap harness but of course not really really nice leather. TICA, if you are willing to spend the money, I think the carriage harness from Ozark or a more so show harness with a removable breeching from somewhere else would better suit your needs. It looks really nice on (only tried it on pretty quick) as I said above I'll try and get good pictures tomorrow and a better update/description, I'll probably need everyone's advice on fit, too.


Oh how pretty...I love the color! I know you can't tell much from pictures but it looks like a nice leather. Is there padding/lining under the saddle? It looks well made to me but I'm a newbie. Thanks for the heads up about the carriage harness. I was hoping to find something that would work for everyday and show. I guess I'll figure it out one of these days but your harness looks nifty to me. I'm sure you'll enjoy breaking it in!! Thanks so much for the pictures~


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 8, 2016)

It is an attractive harness. You probably won't know exactly what you think until it is on your horse. You might want to get a harness pad. I don't know anyone who's harness is all original; most need some tweaking!

I do not know the technical reasons for side/over check. I had never really used a check before, but it has been very useful for Rowdy. He wants to evade by putting his nose on the ground and the over check helped with that. I have the side check on him now; I don't like all those straps on his face. You might visit the American Driving Society and see if there are tips there about checks. People can have very strong opinions about them; I think each driver has to figure out what works for his horse and him. Most of us are amateur drivers and still learning.

Looking forward to seeing your harness in action!


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 9, 2016)

Thanks for all the tips on checks and compliments



Cayuse, I agree, this bridle has probably been my favorite out of the driving bridles (actually out of all the bridles) I've had, I haven't had a lot but still.
I only got one good-ish picture of it on Sugs, normally I wouldn't post it but since you asked I will



it isn't quite up to my normal 'want to be' standard. We have two inches of snow on the ground and it was pretty cold yesterday, so I didn't make Sugar venture out of her warm blanket.



I want to get a few pictures of the girls in the snow yet today, so maybe I can get a few good pictures of Suggie in her harness. I'm hoping the leather will just get nicer as it's worn, all the buckles are easy to use, my only complaints now are the hardware quality ( not to bad but not as nice as my other harness, which wasn't too expensive) , the backstrap seemed long, too long for either of my girls, and the breeching could be a little off in size too ,might have to send those pieces back for a different size. Where would you say the breeching is suppose to set ? I think I've got a pretty good idea but would like to make sure before I send anything back, I'll try and get better pictures of how it fits soon. TICA, the saddle does have a little padding but not a lot, as Marsha suggested I think I'll use a pad with it. I already have a pad so I'll at least try it.The color really is refreshing and I like it on Suggie, took Nollie for a short ground drive with the saddle and reins from it and tried on a few of the other pieces and I actually liked it on her too, black still is going to be her color of leather but it was fun to see. Combined driving lessons sound fun


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 9, 2016)

By the way, that was Suggie's first time in full (minus the bridle) harness


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 14, 2016)

Got a few pictures today. Would anyone care to add their two cents on breeching fit ? Does it need to come a little farther onto her body (towards her withers) ?


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## Cayuse (Dec 14, 2016)

My first impression is that it looks a little far back but maybe other people could validate this as I'm no breeching expert, lol. I think on my guys it is more towards the point of there hip, It seems like there was a "sweet spot" where it just seemed to lay nicely.

I'm going to look at my pictures and see if I remember correctly!

ETA: I looked and mine is a little bit more forward that yours, but not alot.

Can you send a picture to the harness maker and see what they say?


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 15, 2016)

Thanks for replying Cayuse !



​ I guess I could send the picture to the maker. I'm pretty sure there aren't places I can adjust it more to get it farther forward , so I'd probably have to send it back to get a slightly longer piece if it truly is to far back.


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 16, 2016)

Got to ground drive Nollie in the snow in today!


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## MajorClementine (Dec 16, 2016)

I'm too big a wimp for that! She looks so pretty there in the snow. How'd she do?


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## Minimor (Dec 17, 2016)

looks good. Give it a good oiling and the leather will soften up nicely.

The breeching isn't a bad fit; I think it will be perfectly usable as is.


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 17, 2016)

She did pretty good, especially since I hadn't driven her for a while . I think most of the 'if-y' stuff didn't have much to do with the snow . :/

Thanks for the advice on the breeching fit , Minimor !


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 25, 2016)

Merry Christmas everybody ! !


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## Minimor (Dec 25, 2016)

Merry Christmas to you too!!


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## Cayuse (Dec 26, 2016)

Belated Merry Christmas to you!


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 30, 2016)

Hope everybody had a great Christmas, just a about time to wish a happy new year, too....Anyway that isn't the main subject of my posting .




Do you all just depend on the wire stays in the blinders to keep them next to the horse's face ? Or is there some trick I'm missing out on ? So far the new russet bridle hasn't been to bad about it but it's been a problem for me in the past.


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## paintponylvr (Dec 30, 2016)

The noseband does a lot to keep the blinders next to the horses face w/ no gaps. Also being adjusted correctly so that the blinders are "centered" over the eyes (the crown piece adjustment, not the bit adjustment).

Make sure that the other connector from the blinders to the browband to the crown aren't too tight and pulling the blinders closer to the eyes at the top while making them gap at the bottom, as well.


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## PintoPalLover (Dec 30, 2016)

Thanks paintponylvr ! What you said makes sense already


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## Mnmini (Jan 9, 2017)

PintoPalLover said:


> Got a few pictures today. Would anyone care to add their two cents on breeching fit ? Does it need to come a little farther onto her body (towards her withers) ?


[SIZE=10.5pt]It looks close. Your breeching needs to be falling a tad higher, and back strap shortened a bit so that when you have a single strap drop it comes down straight, rather than angling backwards. I think the pic I have will show that you want the breeching hitting the widest part of the thigh so that when braking it can't "sweep them off their feet."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Beautiful harness. I have a set of leather show harness that I love, but as you see in the picture, a set of beta harness that I use for my marathon cart in CDE's. I like them both, different horses for different courses. Regarding blinders, may need to stuff your headstall with paper to train the blinders to sit "out" away from the eye. Even with the wire, when stored etc, they tend to want to go flat.[/SIZE]


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## PintoPalLover (Jan 13, 2017)

Thanks for the information Mnmini



I know the back strap was too long , we sent in to be shortened a little bit ago and are waiting for it now. Hopefully that will make it easier to get the rest of the breeching fixed up. Thanks for replying !


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## PintoPalLover (Feb 10, 2017)

TICA , did you ever get your harness and cart picked out ? I'd love to hear what you decided on .


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## TICA (Mar 11, 2017)

PintoPalLover said:


> TICA , did you ever get your harness and cart picked out ? I'd love to hear what you decided on .


Hi there,

Sorry I've been off the site for awhile. I'm trying to decide if I should go ahead and get the carriage harness from Ozark or go cheaper for now and get one for training. Our minis aren't trained for driving. I'd hate to invest in a really nice harness only to have it torn up during the training. I'd appreciate any insights from folks that have trained their minis. I'm settled on a cart (I think). Any insights are welcome


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## PintoPalLover (Mar 11, 2017)

I think some of the harness decision boils down to personal preference, but I will say that if you get a good quality harness it should last through training and still be perfectly fine for use in most places. It helps if you take good care of it , and I'll also add , a good quality harness is easier to take care of. I've been happy with the Ozark harness so far and the customer service there is wonderful !! That being said, I still think if I really enjoy driving a Comfy Fit or such might be in my future.



I think the carriage harness from Ozark would probably suit your needs well. I got my first harness through ebay , I believe it was from Frontier Equestrian, but I would have to double check that, it's been through a lot and is still a great harness. Glad you found a cart.


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## jventresca (Mar 15, 2017)

I'd like to point out that most of the driving harnesses for sale are made by the Amish. Dealers like Ozark Mt. and Driving Essentials are not making the harnesses themselves but acting as middlemen and selling them. You can save money by going directly to the actual harness maker yourself. On the flip side, if you don't know exactly what you want you may be better off going to a middleman who can help you figure out what you need and advocate for you with any fit or quality issues.

I've had very good service from Samuel Esh at Center Square Harness Shop in Leola, PA. Yonie of Yonie's Harness Shop in Honeybrook, PA makes very nice synthetic harness. Becky Zimmerman in Ephrata also makes nice harness. For the most part they don't have websites or splashy ads. I live in PA so I have a lot of Amish nearby but most states have Amish enclaves.


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## TICA (Mar 20, 2017)

jventresca said:


> I'd like to point out that most of the driving harnesses for sale are made by the Amish. Dealers like Ozark Mt. and Driving Essentials are not making the harnesses themselves but acting as middlemen and selling them. You can save money by going directly to the actual harness maker yourself. On the flip side, if you don't know exactly what you want you may be better off going to a middleman who can help you figure out what you need and advocate for you with any fit or quality issues.
> 
> I've had very good service from Samuel Esh at Center Square Harness Shop in Leola, PA. Yonie of Yonie's Harness Shop in Honeybrook, PA makes very nice synthetic harness. Becky Zimmerman in Ephrata also makes nice harness. For the most part they don't have websites or splashy ads. I live in PA so I have a lot of Amish nearby but most states have Amish enclaves.


Thank you for the insights! So if I would take harness measurements and tell them things like roller buckles, breeching etc. would that be enough? I am planning on doing country driving in fields etc. and small shows....can you make any recommendations on what all I would need to tell them?


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## jventresca (Mar 24, 2017)

Try to think of every part of the harness and how you'd like it to look. Here's my list:

BRIDLE

Keepers not "boxes" to hold strap ends (throughout harness) It makes your harness look more elegant.

shaped crown piece, no check

cavesson with extra loose keepers

D shaped blinkers

tear drop/ or none

Collar

buckle in traces

shaped breastcollar

turrets on neck strap

what end do you want on your traces: slots for a typical singletree or rings for snap shackles

Saddle more than 2 1/2" wide if you're using a two wheeled cart

tree

open tugs

over girth, not wrapstrap

breeching: with or without trace carriers (trace carriers go on the ring of the breeching, use when your singletree is lower than your shafts)

Reins

all brown, not brown and black

finger loop

Fittings

what color metal: brass or chrome

stainless steel tongues on all buckles

roller buckles where needed (some buckles, ones that are just for adjustment and aren't changed all the time don't need to be roller buckles)

NO CONWAYs

I'd also get extra loose keepers in a few sizes. If you use a check sometimes add a sidecheck and rings for it on the crown piece. French snaps can class it up rather than regular snaps.

I take my saddles back for restuffing once in a while, like after 10 - 15 years. I like to get browbands with a bead of colored leather or a metal decoration.

Samuel is so used to what I like he has a type of harness he calls Jaye's Harness.


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## PintoPalLover (Mar 24, 2017)

Thanks jventresca !!! That's a great list


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## TICA (Mar 25, 2017)

jventresca that is one awesome list! Thank you so much for your insights and taking the time for us newbies! Is there a certain type of leather I should ask for or do the harness makers know what is needed?


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## jventresca (Mar 31, 2017)

Tica, your question about leather is a tough one. I would try to look at harnesses made by a particular harness maker to determine if I thought his leather was nice. You can ask to see an example of the leather that will be used for your harness. Even the best harness makers can get a bad hide or two. I did return a whole harness to Samuel Esh because I didn't like the feel of the leather. It was very stiff and didn't take oil as well as it should.

Leather is from a hide, which means it has different thicknesses within the same piece. Straps cut from the middle are thicker and tougher than the slices from the edges. Leather can have imperfections in it from injuries to the animal. Black dye can hide these imperfections to a certain degree. That's one reason all natural colored reins are more desirable because any mars can be easily seen.

Harness straps should be sturdy but not overwhelm our little horses. I like the straps to be about 3/16" thick in weight bearing places down to 1/8" on bridle pieces. The "good" side should be firm and glossy; the "wrong" side should be dense without any extra fleshy strings. If it feels like cardboard forget about it!

If you look at very expensive harness you'll hear talk about linen versus nylon thread. The guys that use linen thread are making "museum pieces", expecting their work to last centuries. The Amish will use nylon thread, dependable and strong, able to outlast us. With nylon thread, if you get a loose end sticking out, just use a lighter to burn it and pat down the remains (with a oven mitt!) and it will be neat again.

Once you have a harness maker you like it easy to replace a piece or two if necessary. Leather does wear out over time. I tend to replace breeching straps (hold back straps) and get my saddles restuffed when they get flatter than I like. That said, I've used my harnesses for 15 or more years.

I do love my leather harnesses!


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## TICA (Apr 2, 2017)

jventresca said:


> Tica, your question about leather is a tough one. I would try to look at harnesses made by a particular harness maker to determine if I thought his leather was nice. You can ask to see an example of the leather that will be used for your harness. Even the best harness makers can get a bad hide or two. I did return a whole harness to Samuel Esh because I didn't like the feel of the leather. It was very stiff and didn't take oil as well as it should.
> 
> Leather is from a hide, which means it has different thicknesses within the same piece. Straps cut from the middle are thicker and tougher than the slices from the edges. Leather can have imperfections in it from injuries to the animal. Black dye can hide these imperfections to a certain degree. That's one reason all natural colored reins are more desirable because any mars can be easily seen.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge! You have given such great details that are easy to overlook. I really cherish all of your help to this newbie!!


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## jventresca (Apr 3, 2017)

I'm thrilled you're interested in what I can share (and blab, blab, blab on about)! I just hope my ramblings are useful to you.


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## PintoPalLover (Apr 3, 2017)

Keep 'rambling' jventresca !! Your posts always make so much sense


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## paintponylvr (Apr 4, 2017)

Jaye -

Are you able/willing to share your harness guy's contact info? Are you sharing "Jaye's harness"? I'd love to put together a trip to PA's Amish country since I've done so much up in OH's Holmes county around Millersburg.

Maybe someday soon? Don't know when it would be - on my wish list right now... When I do come that way - I want to visit companies that have draft farm type equipment too (have some contacts for that - though haven't talked to anyone yet) such as White Horse. Not sure they are in the same area of PA that you are, though. There are others, don't have my "little list" handy right now... May have to create another as I'm not sure hwere it's at. I need to check - Horse Progress Days is held in July and should be held in PA soon.

And you never know - someday again - I may be able to do more purchasing - ie: special order(s), LOL.


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## jventresca (Apr 5, 2017)

My harness guy is Samuel Esh, Center Square Harness, 186 Quarry Road, Leola, PA 17540, (717) 656-3381. He and his son build harnesses for people all over the country.

The area where a good many Amish carriage and harness shops are located is east of Lancaster along Route 23, near New Holland. Driving Essentials is also located in New Holland. They have a great website with all sorts of driving equipment and supplies. Bird-in-Hand Carriages is on Route 340, south and parallel with Rt. 23. It's a "hot spot" for drivers. The original Smuckers Harness is gone but Daniel Smucker has opened his own business.

You could ask Samuel about farm equipment. He may know who to talk to in that area. Samuel set up "Jaye's" harness so I could have friends and clients call and order without having to remember the whole list of options. It's changed a bit over the years.

I'm north of Philadelphia about 1 1/2 hour drive from the Lancaster area. Wish I were closer!


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## jventresca (Jun 5, 2017)

I googled Horse Progress Days and found out it will be held in Leola, PA this year! June 30th - July 1st! Center Square Harness is very close to the site. They make a lot of draft harness too.

Please let me know if you end up going!


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