# Where is the best place to buy cart



## rimmerpaints (Nov 11, 2010)

Our mini knows how but Im all new to this so i need something for a beginner(for myself) Im just going to put my girls in it and have them ride around the house and maybe do some parades with him one day. I asked on Miniature forum i was told to ask here and could get more help. I dont want anything real fance just something to play around with then maybe one day i can upgrade to something better. Would it be better to buy used or new? Any help would be grateful! Thanks!


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## RhineStone (Nov 11, 2010)

(Those that know me here are going to think that I am a broken record....




)

Congratulations on getting an already trained horse. That is the first step. If you are new to driving the other thing you will need is a good instructor. As I said in the other thread, you wouldn't fly an airplane without an instructor. They can help you with all sorts of issues that you may encounter that will keep you and your family safe. They can also help you get a cart that fits both your horse and you.

How tall is your horse?

A lot of people start out with what is called an "Easy Entry" cart. They are usually a pipe cart with a metal floor and pneumatic wheels. This is fine for "bombing" around. New or used doesn't necessarily matter other than whether or not it was maintained, just like anything else. One thing that I don't care for about easy entry carts is that they are also easy exit carts. It isn't that difficult to get tossed from it especially around a fast corner. There is nothing that will hold you in the cart. A cart without a driver is a "weapon". Personally, although they are inexpensive and readily available, I don't think that they are the safest choice out there (actually, I would put them closer to the bottom of the pile...) They also don't ride very well and their wheels can collapse under certain conditions moreso than other vehicles.

However, a safer, more stable vehicle is going to cost you more $$$. I would choose one with steel-spoked or wood-spoked wheels. Heavier duty shafts will also be safer, as the wooden ones break clean or the metal ones resist bending. The pipe ones can bend around the horse. Torsion axles are going to give a good ride, as are full eliptical springs. A good base wood vehicle is going to be around $700. A typical Easy Entry is about $400-500 new. A good base metal vehicle with torsion axles and steel wheels is going to be around a grand. If you plan to upgrade in the future anyway, I would do your homework and go ahead and get something that will last through what you want to do. It is a waste of money to do the "for now" thing when you could have applied that $$$ towards what you want in the end. I have seen friends our ours do that over and over. "Buy quality, cry once."

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 11, 2010)

On the other hand, I bought the "nice carts" first and always wished I'd bought that easy entry so I had a cheap training cart to kick around in and take kids for a ride!



The nice carts are, well, heavy. And take a lot of maintenance. And make you worry about every ding. Oh, and they're a lot harder to get in and out of and unless they're wider and lower than an E.E., they tip over just as fast.

Nope, I'll take a nice pipe E.E. as a starter cart any day. I went back and bought one after driving for four years and love it! I can finally go trail driving in the mud, hit the beach, etc. without worrying about my quality cart's paint job.





Leia

P.S.- The coil springs do suck, I'll admit that, but there are some EE models out there you can buy that have elliptical springs or even torsion axles.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 11, 2010)

I have a Jerald Runabout. I've had it about 7-8 years. I've used it in local AMHA shows. The nice thing about Jerald's, is they will replace anything on it. I've bought new shafts and also a floor board. When you order the replacement, it fits and matches perfectly. They are nicely balanced. I've driven many a mile in mine!

I didn't know about the metal EZ carts when I first got started in driving. I had an old Jerald sulky and was told Jerald was a great company. I didn't know, then, there were so many companies that made miniature carts.

But I'm glad I have my Jerald now. Someday I might get a showcart, but I don't really see myself going to World's or National, so it doesn't really matter. My Jerald Runabout works fine for the driving I do.

http://www.jeraldsulky.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=28


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## rimmerpaints (Nov 11, 2010)

Myrna he is 36 inches tall. I will have to search for an instructor. How do you find a instructor that teaches driving??


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## RhineStone (Nov 11, 2010)

That is a great size, especially for a family.

I would start with finding a driving club near you. There are two ADS clubs in Tennessee, Middle TN Carriage Club whose Primary Contact is Ardeth Obenauf at 931-294-2615. The other is Nashoba Carriage Association whose contact is Anne Snowden at 901-854-2390. I personally don't know either of these people, but they might be able to put you in contact with an instructor in TN, as well as other drivers to meet and share your sport.

Maybe others here from that area might know as well.

Hope this helps!

Myrna


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 11, 2010)

Leia,

do you have the type of tires on your EE cart you mentioned that do not go flat? I got a meadowbrook as my first cart, am getting instruction for everything, hooking up, driving and safety training. Am almost ready to fly solo according to my instructor. We have gone very slow. Was thinking already of getting cart number 2, something lighter than the meadowbrook. I was eyeing the hyperbike but then was intrigued by your mention of a pipe EE cart and thought I would post in to ask about it. I mostly will be driving in fields around our farm. So far I have done fine in my meadowbrook however it would be nice to have something to bomb around in that is not quite so heavy.


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## Margo_C-T (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm with Leia on this one. However, I'd stress--get the 'name brand' pipe EE cart. Many 'off' brands have drawbacks.

For me, the best of the lot is Frontier(I have heard that the CTM is much the same as a Frontier, but have no personal experience with it.) I have owned two Frontiers in 25 years; sold the first only because the seatback was beat-up from ponying a little stallion who liked to BITE it-it is not pretty, but is still going strong for the person who bought it from me! I never had a 'down' day with EITHER one; had to replace the wheel bearings in the second one, but Frontier carries them, and they don't cost much.

I had puncture-RESISTANT tubes, and 'goop', put into my Frontier's wheels at a bike shop, and have never had a flat while driving...even when I did a cross-country course out across native NM hills, cactus included.

No, they are NOT a show cart, or suitable for the rigors of a serious CDE marathon course, for the most part, but for an everyday-use, knockabout cart which will allow a passenger, is easy to get into and out of, and is LIGHTWEIGHT(Frontiers weigh @ 78 lbs., give or take), that is still quite reasonable in price, I think they are hard to beat! Be leery of 'homebuilts' and/or knockoffs, though---I've seen quite a few that were much heavier, and/or had other serious drawbacks.

I've owned several Jerald show carts, a genuine Meadowbrook,Pequea's 'top-of-their-line' wooden Road Cart,an IteBte, and a Bennington. All were/are quality vehicles, but as noted, they are a good bit more expensive, often a lot heavier in weight, and/or not really suitable for the breed show ring. I always 'come back' to my trusty Frontier for everyday driving of a single.

Margo


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 12, 2010)

Margo... Is this the frontier cart (genuine) that you are talking about?

http://easyentrycart.com/products/minicarts/

Also, in your opinion, would a newbie be better using a frontier cart vs a hyperbike? Horse is well trained, driver is still learning.

I have a pequea meadowbrook. It works well and is gorgeous, but is heavy.

I am looking for something to knock around the farm in over the winter that I can get out quickly and go. My mini is 32 inches and is a bit round and out of shape but I am working on that.

thanks


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 12, 2010)

I would also say that you can't go wrong with a relatively inexpensive easy entry pipe cart. If you purchase a good quality one with the heavier wheels and tires from either Frontier or through Ozark Canada (not the US Ozark cart) they will give you many years of enjoyment and if you take care of one they hold their resale value quite well should you decide to sell and upgrade. New are so inexpensive I would not be tempted to look for used.

I think Myrna's suggestion for lessons is also a very good idea especially when young children are involved - could mean the difference between a fun, enjoyable experience and a disaster.

Congratulations on your new Mini and here's to years of fun for you and your family!


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## Sue_C. (Nov 12, 2010)

I really like my new cart. I went for the "Trail Cart", in mini size, but opted for the 24" wheels. I got both the metal, and the pneumatic wheels...that way I can go anywhere I want, all I have to do is change the wheels. It is very well made, yet light enough for my 33.50" mare to chung along with no problem. I just used it for a training CDE a few weeks ago, using the metal wheels, and it held up wonderfully. I haven't put the brakes on yet, but will have them on before spring.

G & S Cart Co

Gary was amazing to work with...he even called a couple of times to discuss exactly what I wanted...and made a couple of changes with no extra charges. I asked for a wider tug-space. Generally it is 17", and I wanted 20", as I find the extra room is needed for the buckles etc...on the Super V breastplate. I have extra on all my carts, I hate seeing minis squeezed into the tiny tug-spaces that are most commonly used. Everyone seems to worry about shaft length...but the space where the horse actually "lives" is as important.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 12, 2010)

Ditto everything Margo said.







shorthorsemom said:


> Leia, do you have the type of tires on your EE cart you mentioned that do not go flat?


Like Margo, I have puncture-resistant Kevlar tubes and some green slime in the garage or trailer for fixing flats. I tried the solid No-Flat inserts in my last EE (a home-made, off-brand, really heavy cart like Margo talks about) and they made the ride so much rougher! I decided to try the puncture-resistant tubes first in my Frontier and they've worked well so far. Of course we don't have cactus or goatheads around here!



But we do have a lot of wild blackberry canes and it's gone through those okay.



shorthorsemom said:


> I got a meadowbrook as my first cart, am getting instruction for everything, hooking up, driving and safety training. Am almost ready to fly solo according to my instructor. We have gone very slow. Was thinking already of getting cart number 2, something lighter than the meadowbrook. I was eyeing the hyperbike but then was intrigued by your mention of a pipe EE cart and thought I would post in to ask about it. I mostly will be driving in fields around our farm. So far I have done fine in my meadowbrook however it would be nice to have something to bomb around in that is not quite so heavy.





shorthorsemom said:


> Also, in your opinion, would a newbie be better using a frontier cart vs a hyperbike? Horse is well trained, driver is still learning. ... I am looking for something to knock around the farm in over the winter that I can get out quickly and go. My mini is 32 inches and is a bit round and out of shape but I am working on that.


I don't recommend the Hyperbike for everybody as often an EE or other cart is far more appropriate, but honestly for what you're looking for I'd go with the Hyperbike instead. With Bob's wide pneumatic tires it will ride far smoother over rough farm fields than a pipe EE and it won't flip if one wheel gets stuck in a rut and the horse tries to go sideways. It also has a low point of draft arrangement just like your customized Meadowbrook does so it pulls well over rough ground. An EE may jolt both you and the horse a bit as the shafts will be pulled down onto the horse's back each time he hits a bump.

Plus you mention "bombing around"- can't beat the 'Bike for that!



The only cart I've ever flipped was my EE and that's because I hit a root on the inside of a very tight turn at high speed and over it went. EE's (as Myrna mentioned) are fairly narrow and have a high center of gravity so they aren't the best cart for any sort of serious speed work unless you're a very good driver who can keep both wheels on the ground. Why worry about it? You and your gelding would have a wonderful time in a Hyperbike and I bet he'd be in great shape by spring. What he wasn't putting on in muscle from pulling a heavy cart he'd make up for with aerobic conditioning from sprinting with the 'Bike!



I tend to alternate which cart I drive in order to cross-train.

EE's are perfect for road drives, fun drives with family, "pony rides," picnics, parades and the like.



MiLo Minis said:


> If you purchase a good quality one with the heavier wheels and tires from either Frontier or through Ozark Canada (not the US Ozark cart)


?? Why not the US Ozark? The OP apparently lives in Tennessee and the CTM cart sold by Ozark is very nice. I've had a new fresh-out-of-the-box CTM next to a new, fresh-out-of-the-box Frontier and they were very comparable.

Leia


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## rimmerpaints (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the help! I LOVE THIS SITE!!! So helpful!


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 12, 2010)

?? Why not the US Ozark? The OP apparently lives in Tennessee and the CTM cart sold by Ozark is very nice. I've had a new fresh-out-of-the-box CTM next to a new, fresh-out-of-the-box Frontier and they were very comparable.

Leia

I have not had one of the carts from Ozark US so can't recommend one. I have had one from Ozark Canada which is a different manufacturer. I liked it and am happy to recommend it. Sounds like you can recommend the American one.


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## REO (Nov 12, 2010)

I have two of the CTM metal easy entry carts and I love them!


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 13, 2010)

thanks Leia... Sounds to me like the hyperbike might be the way to go for me. They also seem to keep their value if I have second thoughts some day. Hmmm, Christmas is coming. I wonder if they have any red seats. ho ho ho.





I just sold a meadowbrook cart yesterday and have a little money to put toward my hyperbike fund.

All of you seasoned drivers will love this story about the meadowbrook I sold... It started when I stuck up my hand at an auction this past spring and came home with a meadowbrook cart for my minis. I never bought a cart before and it looked great to me. My trainer had a laugh when I showed it to her because I had purchased a large pony/small horse meadowbrook for my mini boys. In my defence, it looked small enough standing out there in the field all by its little self. LOL, lesson learned, rookies should NEVER buy their driving equipment without supervision and help. My oversized cart sat in our barn loft looking lonely all summer until I decided my horses weren't getting any bigger and I advertised it on Craigs list. I got lucky and somebody with a bigger pony wanted it and I got what I paid for it and didn't lose any money on the deal either.

My message to other newbies. Measure, think, take somebody with experience before you buy anything on your own. I have other stuff I bought without thinking it through first. Lessons learned. It does however make some interesting stuff to sell toward my hyperbike fund.


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## Minimor (Nov 13, 2010)

We have the CTM EE cart from Ozark in the US--actually two--one in Mini size and another in pony size--and are very happy with both of them. No complaints at all, other than the pony cart is a bit big for our ponies--that's no fault of CTM, the cart is the exact same size as the Frontier pony cart. There are actually quite a few of the CTM (all brought up from Ozark Mtn. in the US) being used in Manitoba and people seem to like them just fine. Certainly there are no complaints about them not holding up to use.


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 13, 2010)

I keep going thru this myself. I need a new cart since mine ummm had a bit of an accident last spring. It was a off brand EE cart and the good thing about that is the shafts being metal did bend easily and away from the horse.. had they been wood shafts the outcome might have been a bit different but..like with anything involving horses they can get hurt with just about anything short of a padded cell.

I will be ready in the spring to make a purchase. The issue is I have enough funds for one cart and have horses/ponies of all sizes. After our accident I have decided for me given the choice of slightly longer or slightly shorter shafts I will opt for longer. I am really leaning towards the Pacific Smart Cart I need something with a EE type of cart as I could not get out of a show cart as quickly as I need to due to health issues and again after the accident I learned getting out quickly to get your horse is of utmost importance.

My only issue is the sizes I have now a 35 inch mini well 2 and a 38 inch mini and some smaller ponies but at this point the ponies are not driving I do have 45 inch pony as well so I am guessing I am out of luck in finding one to fit the whole farm lol

I have heard great things about the smart cart and have seen people show to wins in it so I think that will be the way to go but it is really to me anyway alot of money and I am worried I will be making the wrong decision


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## Sue_C. (Nov 13, 2010)

> I am really leaning towards the Pacific Smart Cart I need something with a EE type of cart as I could not get out of a show cart as quickly as I need to due to health issues and again after the accident I learned getting out quickly to get your horse is of utmost importance.My only issue is the sizes I have now a 35 inch mini well 2 and a 38 inch mini and some smaller ponies but at this point the ponies are not driving I do have 45 inch pony as well so I am guessing I am out of luck in finding one to fit the whole farm lol
> 
> I have heard great things about the smart cart and have seen people show to wins in it so I think that will be the way to go but it is really to me anyway alot of money and I am worried I will be making the wrong decision
> 
> ...


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 13, 2010)

OUr now dead cart was a Kingston and honestly it was ok the great thing was how quick and easy it was to change the shafts Raven could drive our 29 inch gelding and within a couple minutes I could drive the B horses.

The problem with that cart is that axle is not standard size so finding new wheels was a bit of an issue It was light weight and balanced decently

It survived our crash better then I anticipated and the wheels well ok I need a new wheel and the shafts bent quite a bit and bent as well behind the part that is interchangable. It is fixable though and I will use it again for Ravens little gelding but I need something with MUCH longer shafts for my 38 in driving mare. She really needs 60 inch shafts she is a very big moving mare and well during the "accident" it was very clear to see we needed much larger shafts lol

But given the nature of our accident the cart held up as well as I could have expected of any cart.


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## Minimor (Nov 13, 2010)

Lisa, I do think that you would be very satisfied with a smart cart.

Keep in mind that those carts are made for Minis up to 40". I did question the local dealer about that size limit, whether 40" meant 40" as a Mini or 40" at the top of the wither, and he told me that 40" meant 40" as a Mini. That being the case the standard cart should fit a 42" pony. A 45" pony may need slightly longer shafts--I'd hoped to have tried it out by now but never got around to even trying one of my taller ponies in the shafts this fall, so i still cannot say.

I have no doubts whatsoever that your big moving 38" mare will drive very comfortably in the smart cart with the standard shafts. I have a couple of 38" mares that are also big movers, and the smart cart gives them plenty of room.


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## disneyhorse (Nov 13, 2010)

I just want to mention something, I know the original poster wasn't asking about this but...

You CAN show in easy-entry (EE) carts. It's not something to be ashamed of at local shows. I have shown pretty much all of my green minis in an EE cart at our local shows, juuuuust in case, as I didn't want to risk my nice Jerald.

I have gotten several Grand Champion wins locally with an EE, even in Park Harness. However, if anyone wanted to attempt an Area show or Nationals, I'd highly recommend getting a show cart!!!

Andrea


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## Margo_C-T (Nov 14, 2010)

Sorry, hadn't been back to this thread for a few days, so didn't see shorthorsemom's questions till just now.

Yes, that is the Frontier I spoke of. Mine are the basic, expanded metal basket, ones. It IS possible to order different shafts; when I got my 38+" mare, I ordered a set of 54" shafts for my Frontier, and the cart was just fine for her with those(all of my other driving minis are 32-34").

I have no experience w/ the Hyperbike, so can't speak to that--though I do think the Hyperbike is a quality vehicle, and would actually love to try one out!

Which vehicle would be 'best' for you will mostly depend on how you will want to use it most, IMO. The Hyperbike is a one-person vehicle, and harder to get in and out of, just by the nature of its construction. OTOH, it is VERY lightweight(a huge plus to me,as pretty much EVERY one of the available alternatives,except the 'pure' show carts, like the Jeralds, are considerably heavier, all running in the neighborhood of 100+ to 115 lbs. in 'basic'(non-accessorized)models; even the Frontier is around 78 lbs.(another metal 'marathon/show/everyday' EE cart is ADVERTISED at 78 lbs., but I found, it is closer to 110 lbs, same as virtually all of the others--Bellcrown, 'original' mini Bennington, IteBte 'Missouri Flyer', Pequea Road Cart, Pacific Smart Cart, for instance--so is very MISLEADING in its portrayal on website and other ads...beware!)--The Hyperbike is also stable and tough; Leia gave an excellent assessment! The metal EEs are much easier ingress and egress, and have room for a passenger.

Bennington, in the UK, has a new version of their Miniature horse cart that I'd LOVE to have...it weighs only @ 80 lbs.(if memory serves), but has the best features of their original(which weighs 110 lbs., right in line with about all the other similar choices.) Bennington is a longtime, quality builder; I LOVE my 'original' Benny, but the cost of SHIPPING has now become VERY prohibitive, to come from England and THEN, somewhere across the US. If I lived somewhere close to Connecticut(home of the Bennington importer in the US), I'd look SERIOUSLY at the latest Benny for miniatures! JMHO.

Margo


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## susanne (Nov 14, 2010)

In addition to the mini and pony cart options offered by CTM and Frontier, CTM also offers a lift kit that raises the basket by 4". It's great for fitting the cart to the big B minis who are too tall for the mini cart as is, but not big enough for the pony model. This is what we bought along with the 24" sheels and 54 " shafts, for Mingus, who is 38" with hooves freshly trimmed.

You can see the lift bracket between the axle and the basket in this shot:







Another photo showing the balance of the cart with him:






You can imagine the angle of the shafts if the basket sat 4" lower.

The folks at CTM are wonderful to work with.


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## R Whiteman (Nov 14, 2010)

I don't care what kind of cart you end up buying. You need to pick the one that works for your circumstance. I would try as many as you can before you decide. It would be a shame however if you were to chose one or not choose one based on erroneous information that you received on this forum.

The statement that you should be aware of misleading information provided by some of the manufactures is an opinion from that person. It would be interesting to she where she obtained her information to form such a bias opinion. I admit my opinion is bias because I own two Pacific Smart Carts and have help assemble and have driven around fifteen others. None of the carts have been any thing less than the advertised product. They have weighed exactly what was posted on the web site. I changed out the axle in mine for the wider version and it now weighs in at 119 lbs. I have used it on horses as small as 29 inches and as tall as 40 inches. It is a wonderful cart that I have used for the breed ring, recreational driving, and combined driving events. There are some folks that "feel" the Smart Cart feels heavy to them when they pick it up by the shafts to attach the horse. I always have them check it with someone in the seat. By the way, I am a very large person, so the total weight is well over 250 lbs. when I am in the cart. Even the 29-inch didn't have a problem handing the cart with me in it. I think many people make a great deal more fuss than needed over 5-10 lbs difference in the weight of the carts.

It does take some time to adjust the cart if there is a major change in horse size. I tend use the same setting for the 35 and 38 inch horse.

One thing I would add is to make sure that the wheel size is such that the cart can be used on different horses . I prefer the 24 -32 inch range. Some would say they are too big for the smaller horses. If you want to use different wheels than come with the cart make sure you check on the width of the hub and the diameter of the axle. Not all the wheels interchange. I have an adapter I made for my Smart Cart that allows me to use a variety of sizes and types of wheels.

If you are looking for an all around cart that doesn't cost a great deal and will last for years by a Frontier. I have used and abused one for years. They are easy to get replacement parts and they can be adapted to fit most miniature horses. The company has always stood by their product. Mine does weigh less than 100 lbs.

Ron


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## RhineStone (Nov 14, 2010)

R Whiteman said:


> There are some folks that "feel" the Smart Cart feels heavy to them when they pick it up by the shafts to attach the horse. I always have them check it with someone in the seat.


This is very true. The balance is absolutely affected by the body in the seat. Even adding a 2nd person can affect it. Everybody should do this with every cart they own or are trying.

Myrna


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## BBH (Nov 14, 2010)

I came back to driving after 40 years and things have changed greatly, getting more sophisticated all the time......with that being said I was ready to buy my first cart and bought the one that had been suggested by the trainer at the time. It was the EE Alpine with 20 inch wheels.....and it was fine, we fine tuned the seat placement with the new trainer and also added footman's loops and changed the location of the tug stops. I then added steel 24 inche wheels with the hard rubber and love them......and as you all know you can't have just one mini, so one turned into two that turned into 3....two of them being drivers. For the 2nd cart I looked at price and availabilty and went with the Frontier EE with 24 inch wheels....one being I had already seen in a year of driving the Alpine that the wood was going to require more upkeep with the type of driving I was doing around for my pleasure and training. I have to say it is a great all around cart for weight, appearance, and generalluse. I have also added 24 inch steel wheels to it.

If i had it to do all over again I think the Frontier EE would be my first choicea for a good all around multi function cart that holds it value well for resale for any beginning driver.

And please beware of some carts being sold on line for many reasons....balance, cheap materials, bad wheels.....bicycle wheels may stand up to driving around in your yard with the kids on a Sunday afternoon but not hot rodding on trails or over rough terrain for a driving event.

As a beginner the suggestion to look and consider your horses size, type of driving you will be doing, future interests...get advice from a trainer or someone that does the type of driving you are interested in. Everyone has an opinion of what is best but you need to be diligent in doing what is best for you, your horse and the safety of you both.


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 14, 2010)

Ron I know you have discussed it before a bit online with me but in the next couple of months when I am ready to actually purchase I would love to give you a call so I can ask a bunch of questions if you do not mind


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## R Whiteman (Nov 14, 2010)

It would appear I owe Margo an apology for my comments. I misread her post and responded with a false assumption that her comments were directed towards the Smart Cart. I will be careful in the future to make sure what I am reading is truly what folks are saying before I respond.

Ron


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## Margo_C-T (Nov 14, 2010)

Apology accepted, Ron...an object lesson for all,though, I hope, to read for comprehension.

FYI...what I stated is NOT an 'opinion';it is a verifiable personal experience. I fully intend to share the entire set of FACTS here, if allowed. It is MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, sad to say...but I hope that knowing the facts of it will spare someone else from having what has happened to me,happen to them.

Margo


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