# My Hyperbike is HERE!!!



## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 16, 2010)

Whoo hoo- arrived right when Bob at Graham Carriage Works said it would. Tonight I unpacked it and my hubby helped me attach the seat...then put it all together. It was pretty easy. I am tool challenged, so was happy to see once the seat is on- you really don't need tools. LOL.

The workmanship is top notch and the design is so cool. It is so easy to take apart and put back together.I can't wait to try it out! It is raining here now, but maybe tomorrow afternoon I can give it a try. We put it together in my laundry room in the basement and I was so tempted to bring Buck in to see how it fit LOL....but I didn't. I will introduce him to it outside tomorrow.

Angie






JUST added pix further down!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 16, 2010)

That's great, Angie!! Glad you're happy with it. Have your hubby play "horse" with you sitting in it so you can get the balance adjusted right tonight then give your son pony rides so _you_ can feel it. Hyperbikes are almost as good for rickshaw rides as they are with the horses!





I don't know what instructions Bob sent with it but I'd recommend setting the wheel callouts as low as possible for your horse and having the stirrups short enough that your knees are braced so you can flex with fast turns like you're skiing. It isn't very comfortable that way at the walk but it's perfect once you're moving.

Can't wait to see pix!

Leia


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## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 16, 2010)

OK...I have the balance set. My tire pressure is set at 45 lbs. My husband, Ash and I played with it.

Leia, You need to do a video of how one gets in and out of the 'Bike. Ash and I were laughing at the various ways we could come up with. My favorite was a small trampoline at the back of the seat to bounce then spring over the seat and land there..LOL...

I grabbed Buck's harness so we could kind of guesstimate where he will be and how much room I will have to get in and out...and do you know I am not tall? (5'1 1/2") LOL those shafts are interesting to step over.

Angie


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## jleonard (Nov 16, 2010)

That was fast! I'm so jealous, I ordered a new cart at WEG (September) that is supposed to be arriving this month and I am impatient to get it here and play with it (despite the fact that the pony I bought it for doesn't drive yet



)

Don't worry about size and getting in. I'm only 5'0 and I know Leia's not much taller than me, and once you figure it out it's pretty easy! I just put one foot over the shaft, sit down, then swing my legs up, same in reverse to get out. I like the trampoline idea though





I love my 'bike more as time goes on. I took it to a driving games day last weekend and loved the fact that I could easily lift it into my trailer's tackroom, fully assembled, and then maneuver it once I got it in there, so much easier to deal with than my EE!

Be sure to take pictures ASAP!


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## Carriage (Nov 17, 2010)

"I don't know what instructions Bob sent with it but I'd recommend setting the wheel callouts as low as possible for your horse"

I do try to set the wheel callout at the shop for the horse size and shaft combination. The open wheel callout is my best guess as the one needed. At minimum it gives you a good starting place. Remember to replace the axle callout caps to keep things sealed.

Also 45lb sounds a bit high. You want a bit of squish, try backing down to 35-40 lbs.

Bb


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 17, 2010)

What is a wheel callot? Hyperbike dreamer wants to know.


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## gatorbait4sure (Nov 17, 2010)

5'4" does the same for getting in and out.......That part is the most inconvienience you'll experience....once your in, it's like "Butta". I had trouble eith my right lower leg rubbing the stirrup until I reset it....now it feels like an old comfie recliner.....

I pack mine in my tack room but I put the wheels in the back seat of my truck as I don't want them rolling around w/o me. Bob will tell you ALWAYS check the hub of your wheels EVERY time you use it, BEFORE getting in, to be sure they are locked. ENJOY!


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## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 17, 2010)

OK EVERYONE! I have pix! Granted they are not the best, as I rushed home from work, fed the dogs and got the 'Bike out. Buck and Wish watched as I assembled it. It rained all night and was windy and cold. I put on my big fluffy coat. The yard was a bit muddy but I HAD to try it out! LOL

*DISCLAIMER* I drive Buck in the wind and as it is getting dark all the time and he is just as steady as when it is calm. I know my boy like a book and knew he'd be fine. I have had him since he was 9 months old- he is 4 1/2 yrs old now and have done all his training. LOL

Now, back to the story  I lunged him in the round pen just to warm him up. Then brushed him and hitched. I will still be doing a little tweaking with my harness and may drop my tugs another notch.

He stood like a rock while I got in. It was easier than I thought it would be! I am no spring chicken at 37 w/ a finicky knee and was just fine! I found it very comfortable and secure!

Off we went! I could tell Buck noticed it was easier to pull and was liking it. But he listened like the good boy he is and we had a blast!! It is so cool how easily it turns. I couldn't stop smiling.

It does feel similar to riding, as you can feel the motion of the horse more.

I drove for about 15 minutes then let Ash have a turn. SHe loved it too. I relunctantly had to stop since I needed to do chores and make dinner and it was just about dark. LOL

Bob deserves a huge round of applause! What a gift he has designed for our little horses! I think I will have to name my next horse Bob or Graham in honor of him!

So if you are thinking about getting a hyperbike, Go for it!! Tell Bob, Angie loves hers



You won't regret it. It is a quality piece of equipment that you and your horse will LOVE!

So here we are- not the greatest pix as the lighting was bad-

Angie


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 17, 2010)

drivin*me*buggy said:


> Leia, You need to do a video of how one gets in and out of the 'Bike. Ash and I were laughing at the various ways we could come up with. My favorite was a small trampoline at the back of the seat to bounce then spring over the seat and land there..LOL...


Love the trampoline idea.



I can do video but it's sort of like getting into a show cart- hard the first few times until you figure out what works, then it's so easy you don't even think about it. I put my horse on a firm "Whoa, Stand" so he knows to stay planted on pain of death, face the cart with my reins in one hand and step inside the wheel and stirrup area with my left foot. My right foot steps over the shaft and takes my weight as I pivot to get my butt on the seat. I sit and lift my left foot to the stirrup then get my right foot up on the other stirrup. It's pretty quick! My goal is to minimize the dangerous time when I have a leg in front of a wheel or am standing in front of the seat where it could take me out if the horse were to jump forward. Once I'm safely in the seat I take time to settle myself properly, gather the extra rein length, etc., then drive off.



drivin*me*buggy said:


> I grabbed Buck's harness so we could kind of guesstimate where he will be and how much room I will have to get in and out...and do you know I am not tall? (5'1 1/2") LOL those shafts are interesting to step over.


I'm a little under 5'3" myself so I know what you mean but it isn't bad! I think many "little women" like the 'Bike because it's easy for a small person to load and unload by themselves.







shorthorsemom said:


> What is a wheel callot? Hyperbike dreamer wants to know.


The 'Bike has several measures of adjustability, one of which is different slots you can slide the wheel pin through to make the cart sit higher or lower. Those are "wheel callouts!"

Leia


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 17, 2010)

The problem with posting at work- I write over a long period of time in between calls so I didn't see the new post with pictures!







drivin*me*buggy said:


> *DISCLAIMER* I drive Buck in the wind and as it is getting dark all the time and he is just as steady as when it is calm. I know my boy like a book and knew he'd be fine. I have had him since he was 9 months old- he is 4 1/2 yrs old now and have done all his training. LOL


*snort* No finger-shaking here! If I didn't drive in weather like that, I'd never drive nine months out of the year!



drivin*me*buggy said:


> I will still be doing a little tweaking with my harness and may drop my tugs another notch.


Sounds good! The rest looks good from what I can see.



drivin*me*buggy said:


> Bob deserves a huge round of applause! What a gift he has designed for our little horses! I think I will have to name my next horse Bob or Graham in honor of him!


LOL!!

Leia


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 17, 2010)

Do you mount the hyperbike from the left? Do you need shorter traces for the hyperbike, or do most of your harness parts fit with adjustments? Hyperbike dreamer asking questions.


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## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 17, 2010)

I got in on the left- guess it doesn't matter though.I stepped in with my right foot, hopped on seat- well didn't really hop- just say then swung my left leg in.

All my harness stuff fits fine. I have buckle in traces and that makes a difference I think. With my regular carts I am on last slot and 3rd hole(on Buckle) and the bike I am middle slot and last hole (On buckle)

I may get shorter reins.

I love it


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 18, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> Do you mount the hyperbike from the left? Do you need shorter traces for the hyperbike, or do most of your harness parts fit with adjustments? Hyperbike dreamer asking questions.


You can mount from any side you find comfortable. I usually do it from the left probably just because I'm used to mounting a riding horse from the left!

The traces will usually fit as there's only about as much variance as I find from my show cart to easy entry to my Bellcrown. Different carts fit differently, that's all. You will need a shorter whip and if your reins are too thick to hold comfortably doubled up it wouldn't hurt to buy a special shorter set. My leather reins are narrow enough to be comfortable even with my tiny hands but I suspect if I had beta reins I'd need a shorter set so I didn't have to hold the extra at the end.

Leia


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 18, 2010)

Very exciting! I've never seen one in person. Sounds like a fun, versatile vehicle!


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 19, 2010)

What about even shorter?. I am 4'11''. Not as thin or as limber and bendable as I used to be. Would the bike be a challenge for an even shorter person with some physical limitations? Wouldn't want to have to use a mounting block, LOL. My mini is 32 inches tall and a bit wide right now with all that hair. Might be hard to get accurate measurements right now too. I have had to let out my harness and my britching to account for hair bulk already.

My fear is that I will finally order one and have mounting be a challenge. I am currently using a meadowbrook but have a split seat and mount that cart from the rear rather than go over the shaft. I just look at the hills on our farm here and think that I would be giving my boy an advantage on hills with something like the hyper-bike, for now I am avoiding some trails because of how steep they are.

Come on girls, I still need some convincing.


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## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 19, 2010)

I will try to take some other pictures this weekend and see if I can also get you some measurements, like how high the shafts are to step over. Buck is 34.5"

I think that if you bought a 'Bike and it didn't work out for you- you wouldn't have a hard time reselling it.

Angie


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 19, 2010)

Good point Angie.. it would retain its value.

Any of you bikers have trouble switching back and forth from the hyperbike say to a meadowbwook? My trainer was concerned that my boy and I would be cutting tight turns and then have trouble switching back and learning how to properly handle a larger cart.

She wants me to learn how to handle myself in the meadowbrook first really well before I go hyperbiking. Me... I want some wings


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## jleonard (Nov 20, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> Good point Angie.. it would retain its value.
> 
> Any of you bikers have trouble switching back and forth from the hyperbike say to a meadowbwook? My trainer was concerned that my boy and I would be cutting tight turns and then have trouble switching back and learning how to properly handle a larger cart.
> 
> She wants me to learn how to handle myself in the meadowbrook first really well before I go hyperbiking. Me... I want some wings


Like I said, I'm only 5'0, so not much taller than you. It does take a little manuvering, but you find what works for you. I do not notice any difference switching back and forth between the 'bike and my EE. I feel like the bike makes my horses more confident (which neither of them really have a problem with anyway



) and also makes it easier for me to work on skills like bending, which then transfers to the EE. It also allows them to build up muscle without as much stress as a larger cart.

(Sorry for any typos, I really shouldn't respond this late!)

Oh and by the way, love the pics Angie, looks like you two were having fun!


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 20, 2010)

Thanks for writing back. That helps me alot. I had hopes that I could use a lighter cart to help him get fit and build some strength. He drives great, just out of shape like I am. There are hills around here too that would be a breeze in a lighter cart that I avoid right now because he isn't fit enough to haul me and the meadowbrook up the incline. Gonna go put some more money in my hyperbike savings fund.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 20, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> What about even shorter?. I am 4'11''. Not as thin or as limber and bendable as I used to be. Would the bike be a challenge for an even shorter person with some physical limitations? Wouldn't want to have to use a mounting block, LOL. My mini is 32 inches tall and a bit wide right now with all that hair. Might be hard to get accurate measurements right now too....My fear is that I will finally order one and have mounting be a challenge.


You're worrying too much.



Bob custom designs each of these so if you need the shafts to be lower, ask him! He'll know what you need. With a horse who is only 32" you'll be on the upper wheel callouts anyway (lowering the entire 'Bike including shafts) so you should be fine. You won't need precise measurements for your horse; this is a cart, not a harness. He just needs general height/length/width and mostly it's the height.



shorthorsemom said:


> Any of you bikers have trouble switching back and forth from the hyperbike say to a meadowbwook? My trainer was concerned that my boy and I would be cutting tight turns and then have trouble switching back and learning how to properly handle a larger cart.


Trouble, no. Things to watch for, yes, a little. Kody does get in the habit of spinning the 'Bike fast and can get a little sloppy on his bending but that's a simple matter of being strict and insisting that he work properly no matter what cart he's in. It doesn't take much! He's actually MORE willing to handle turning a larger cart after driving the 'Bike because it gives him confidence about shoving into those shafts.

I worry that he'll resent the heavier cart when he's been driving the 'Bike for awhile but he's generally fine with it. He clearly prefers the 'Bike, but he doesn't give any trouble about being hitched to my regular carts afterwards.

A light, safe vehicle like the 'Bike is great for reconditioning an over-weight horse without too much stress but be sure to intersperse drives with the heavier cart. I made the mistake of using the 'Bike almost exclusively for winter training one CDE season and found that while his cardio was phenomenal come spring he tired quickly during dressage because he simply hadn't built up the muscle strength for prolonged hauling of a regular cart. Oops! Now if I'm conditioning over the winter I'll make sure at least one drive out of every three is with the EE or Bellcrown and I make the horse WORK (lots of bending, transitions and collecting/lengthenings) on those Hyperbike drives. As the competition season approaches I use the 'Bike less and less not because I don't want to use it but because I want the horse at the peak of his strength and that means weight over distance. That way when I put him in the 'Bike for the marathon he can all but fly.





A purely recreational driver can use it all the time with no worry. I wouldn't use it for conditioning a green horse (besides the mounting issue I think they should learn to handle a heavy cart properly before being allowed to "fly") but I do use it for horses recovering from injury or severely out of shape. It's great for both!

Leia


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## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 20, 2010)

Here are a few more pix to show what the area where you step in is like







and here is the view:






Shorthorsemom, my shafts are about 22 inches high to step over. It is a lot of fun. The 'Bike is really comfortable...I'd venture to say my most comfy cart out of my 3 carts. In fact I am so comfy- I have to remind myself to sit up and drive properly.LOL Learning to handle the reins is a little different, not hard at all, just different.

We drove for 41 minutes today





I (and Buck and Wish) have joined a 100 hour Challenge on yahoogroups RecreationalEquineDriving list so I count all my driving minutes. Only time spent actually driving counts- not grooming, harnessing/hitching- just driving time.

Angie


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 20, 2010)

Angie, thanks for posting those photos and for the other details, that helps alot. LOL you have my favorite color seat too, I am drooling. I had a lesson on my boy today in the meadowbook. My boy is experienced, I am not, but I am looking forward when I can hitch and go out solo. We went out about 25 minutes today and worked some more on "how to get yourself out of a pickle" lessons. So far my boy seems to try anything we ask him to do and my trainer says I am getting close to being ready to fly solo.

I am looking forward to the day where I can prep and hitch and drive and she doesn't see a single thing that needs tweeking or adjusting on the harness fittings and doesn't have to correct me too much while we are out.

I have to laugh, my trainer is tall and has a big ground eating walk. She walks along becide or behind us and keeps up when my boy is at a trot. I feel like I am going fast and then I look at my trainer keeping up and laugh out loud. I wonder if she could keep up with us so easily if I was in a hyperbike. LOL.

I am sure loving this driving experience, so nice to work with an experienced trainer too!

whoo hoo I think I am hooked.


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## CZP1 (Nov 20, 2010)

I didn't realize that you really are "close" to the horse with the hyperbike.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 21, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> I am looking forward to the day where I can prep and hitch and drive and she doesn't see a single thing that needs tweeking or adjusting on the harness fittings and doesn't have to correct me too much while we are out.


When that happens it's time to get a new cart, new harness, or new horse and start the process all over again!







CZP1 said:


> I didn't realize that you really are "close" to the horse with the hyperbike.


It's a little weird at first but most people quickly come to love that closeness. They don't poop or pee on you, not even the mares! I promise.





Leia


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## studiowvw (Nov 21, 2010)

I think I'll start a Hyperbike savings account too - looks like total fun.

Wilma


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## REO (Nov 21, 2010)

sounds like the bikes are great for shoter people! But what about a 6' man with really long legs?


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 21, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> When that happens it's time to get a new cart, new harness, or new horse and start the process all over again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Leia,

Which wheels do you like best ? I am doing cross country trail driving around the farm (fields, brush, corn stubble).

Also, how do I go about finding somebody in person to ask questions for the hyperbike? I wrote an email awhile back but it must have gone somewhere else. The web says to call but I didn't see a phone number. Interested in starting the process, not sure where to start.

thanks Adair


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## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi Adair,

Here is how to contact Bob:

http://www.grahamcarriageworks.com/graham_carriage_works_002.htm

Click the top right corner where it says Contact Us and you can email him. He was great at getting back to me.

Here is the page on tires:

http://www.grahamcarriageworks.com/graham_carriage_works_006.htm

He will probably email you with his # and then you can chat directly with him about what you need. He was great to talk with and make sure I was ordering just the right set up for me





Angie


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 22, 2010)

REO said:


> sounds like the bikes are great for shoter people! But what about a 6' man with really long legs?


We've got one of those up here too!



Go to this thread and look at the beach driver video links and the links Susanne posts further down and you can see our own BigDogsLittleHorses, a rather lanky gentleman who regularly uses a Hyperbike with his pretty mare Dancer.

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=120055



shorthorsemom said:


> Leia,Which wheels do you like best ? I am doing cross country trail driving around the farm (fields, brush, corn stubble).


I have the original pneumatic tires Bob offered and prefer them as they give a more cushioned ride than the airless, which I have and use for Preliminary level CDE competition. He now has the so-called "Fat Daddy" tires, which are a little visually bulky for my taste but give great performance. I'd buy those if I was you.



shorthorsemom said:


> Also, how do I go about finding somebody in person to ask questions for the hyperbike? I wrote an email awhile back but it must have gone somewhere else. The web says to call but I didn't see a phone number. Interested in starting the process, not sure where to start.


Well, you can always call me or any of the other folks on here who have one but the best thing is always to go to the source and call Bob directly. He HATES email and the 'net with a passion and his server was down for awhile a few weeks ago so he wasn't getting emails at all. Yours probably got lost! If you need his number send me a PM, I've got it. Tell him I sent you- he'll take good care of you!





Leia


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 29, 2010)

Leia,

I called Bob today...First step taken for my hyperbike dream. thanks for the contact information, much better to call than do email,

I really got a lot of information from him today. Getting closer. I am considering the layaway plan.

Better than keeping my hyperbike fund here in a jar looking at me.


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## LazyRanch (Dec 1, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> What is a wheel callot? Hyperbike dreamer wants to know.


If you look at where the wheels connect to the frame, you will see three adjustment positions - mine have red plugs in them. The frame of the bike can be raised or lowered depending on which hole the wheels are set to. My guy is 33" tall and when I got my 'Bike, the wheels were set in the lowest hole, which made the frame - shafts and seat - at its highest position. I needed to drop everything lower, so I pulled the red plug out of the middle hole, pulled the pin and released the wheel from the frame and repositioned it in the middle hole (putting the plugs in the lower hole). This made the entire cart set more level with PJ's frame, the shafts parallel with the ground, and centered my weight better.

Actually, my driving coach and I did this while PJ was harnessed to the 'Bike! My coach was scrutinizing the turnout and said something like: "I wish we could set this a little lower. Then it would be perfect."So I thought about it for about 5 seconds and realized I knew how to do it. I change my tyres all the time - fascinates the blazes out of my coach since he lost a $20 bet I could go from hard rubber to Fat Daddys in under a minute. Changing the callout is the same thing: push pin in, pull wheel off, push pin in, put wheel on - you just put the pin in another hole. We did it, horse harnessed and hitched in under 2 minutes - mostly because the coach was worried PJ would walk off while we had a wheel off the 'Bike. A couple week ago, at a show, I realized there were more goatheads than I wanted to risk my Fat Daddys in, and that my other horse Rascal needed the taller frame. I went from Fat Daddys to solid tyres and raised the callout in under a minute!

Oh! And dreaming of that HyperBIke? I dreamed of mine for a year's worth of saving up for it. Know what? Worth every second!! Most people who know us are SHOCKED to learn I also own an EE cart - they don't see it very often! Dream and save. I promise it will be worth it!


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## LazyRanch (Dec 1, 2010)

drivin*me*buggy said:


> OK EVERYONE! I have pix! Granted they are not the best, as I rushed home from work, fed the dogs and got the 'Bike out. Buck and Wish watched as I assembled it. It rained all night and was windy and cold. I put on my big fluffy coat. The yard was a bit muddy but I HAD to try it out! LOL


This is GREAT!!!I had my 'Bike delivered at work - then spanked myself because I knew it was there all day and I couldn't do anything about it! When I finally got home, it took me about 20 minutes to assemble. From the time I pulled the truck into the driveway and the box out of the bed and onto the lawn, I don't think an hour passed before I was driving PJ down the road! We've been going down the road ever since.

I am 55 years old and stand 4'10 in my hiking boots. I get in by stepping my right leg in over the shaft and as far over as I can. I put all my weight on that foot, sit in the seat, then put both feet in the stirrups at the same time. PJ is not gelded and loves to work. He is really good at standing still - until he feels both fee in the stirrups, so I also have my reins ready before I step into the shafts. By the time I get out, he's much quieter, so I put both feet down, right foot in front of me, left outside the shaft, stand up and swing the right leg over the shaft.

My coach is about 6' and a little hefty. He is still working on his technique! last time, he didn't pick his foot up high enough and dragged the 'Bike along with him about 3 feet of hopping! Lately though, he stands up, left foot outside the shaft, right inside. Then he folds the back of the seat down and swings his right leg over it. That seems to work well for him.

My most difficult adjustment has been that with the horse still pretty much between my legs, I have a tendency to want to use my legs as aids. I got my 'Bike in March. Last month was the first month I haven't had bruises from trying to close my leg on the horses' side, but only squeezing the shafts instead!


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## LazyRanch (Dec 1, 2010)

jleonard said:


> I love my 'bike more as time goes on. I took it to a driving games day last weekend and loved the fact that I could easily lift it into my trailer's tackroom, fully assembled, and then maneuver it once I got it in there, so much easier to deal with than my EE!


I took my 'Bike to a drive last month. People were pointing at the back of my truck and waving at me - I waved back. Once I got parked, my buddy told me I'd forgot my cart, if I hurried, they would wait for me to go back and get it.

Well, he was half right: I had forgot to load my 'Bike before I hitched my trailer. Early morning, no coffee, what can I say? Anyway it was too early and cold for me to go all WonderWoman and heave the 'Bike over the side of the truck, so I took off the wheels and shafts and put it all in my tack compartment of my trailer. My trailer is a 2-horse, straight load with the compartment up front and under the feeder - not much room when one adds the box of harness, buckets, brushes, etc. but easily doable with the 'Bike.

It was fun to see everyone's face when, having expected me to have to drive off, get cart, drive back - a good hour's hold up - I suddenly appeared all harnessed, hitched and ready to go in a few minutes.Oh yes! So way better than the EE cart.


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## LazyRanch (Dec 1, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> Do you mount the hyperbike from the left? Do you need shorter traces for the hyperbike, or do most of your harness parts fit with adjustments? Hyperbike dreamer asking questions.


I think those who ride have a tendency to mount the 'Bike from the left. One of my friends mounts from the right because he has a hip replacement and right is easier - one of the beauties is either side is good.Leia brought up a great point about the reins, and I would like to add this:I have beta reins and they are very long. I got into trouble several times trying to hold everything together. A trainer pulled her pony tail elastic out of her hair and looped it onto the buckle of my reins. Now, I don't have to hold all the reins, I just twist the ponytail elastic (on my 4th one now) around my ring finger; the rein buckle end hangs off that, and I sit on the end of the fold in the reins.

I could cut the reins, but I often train on the trail. I can drop the cart and long line the horses through all kinds of things - the ever popular mud pits, bushes, puddles, you name it. Sometimes I need to walk through in hand (gullet strap excellent idea), then long line or ground drive, then hitch the 'Bike back up and drive.


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## LazyRanch (Dec 2, 2010)

REO said:


> sounds like the bikes are great for shoter people! But what about a 6' man with really long legs?


I have had several guys driving my 'Bike. My coach is 6' and hefty, one of our members is 6'4" and another friend stands 6'7'! (he doesn't own a horse but has had a lot of fun with PJ, learning what driving is. We just move the stirrups further forward. The stirrups lock on the shafts with the same sort of mechanism used on bicycle wheels - the quick release flippy things. Not only do the stirrups move forward and back, they also rotate higher and lower, so your feet can go up, more even with the shaft, or drop down lower than the shaft.

I have several positions on my stirrups now:far back with my feet as low as I can for my dressage tests - the judge can see more of my horses' rear ends

a little further forward but raised so my feet are more level with the shafts for cones and hazards - so I can brace better on sharper turns and unpredictable terrain

more stretched out for longer trail rides

Find someone with a 'Bike and try out different positions!


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## REO (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks for the answers


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## Carriage (Dec 2, 2010)

Actually, my driving coach and I did this while PJ was harnessed to the 'Bike! My coach was scrutinizing the turnout and said something like: "I wish we could set this a little lower. Then it would be perfect."So I thought about it for about 5 seconds and realized I knew how to do it. I change my tyres all the time - fascinates the blazes out of my coach since he lost a $20 bet I could go from hard rubber to Fat Daddys in under a minute. Changing the callout is the same thing: push pin in, pull wheel off, push pin in, put wheel on - you just put the pin in another hole. We did it, horse harnessed and hitched in under 2 minutes - mostly because the coach was worried PJ would walk off while we had a wheel off the 'Bike

Its always fun to watch the reaction. I'll do ya one better Miss Cheryl.

I had a testing day at Happs a few years ago. I had the famous Terri the trainer in the 'Bike and she was driving Miss Merridy's Velvet. I too did not care for the set height and I said so to Miss Terri. I evaluated both horse and driver and knew that I could do this with no problem because both are "bullet proof". I went up to the right wheel on the cart and asked Miss Terri to lean away from me and I removed the wheel. She says in a shocked voice, "you just took the wheel off". I smiled at her and shook my head affirmative (yes you did just see me do that) and quickly plugged the wheel into the proper call-out. Now that cart is sitting lopsided because of the different wheel heights. As I walk around the back of the "bike held rock firm by the great Velvet, I comment that "this setting is great for side hills". I again have her lean away from me as I change the other wheel to the proper height. And off they went sitting at a better attitude.

Again I evaluated everything before I did it. This is one reason why you want to get the same testers every-time.

I was ready to hold the rig back or become the wheel until the horse could be brought to a stop. I knew my givens and also knew that we could show the crowd something they had never seen before and most likely since.

Have we brought the pit-stop concept to miniature horse driving?...





Bb


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 2, 2010)

Carriage said:


> Actually, my driving coach and I did this while PJ was harnessed to the 'Bike! My coach was scrutinizing the turnout and said something like: "I wish we could set this a little lower. Then it would be perfect."So I thought about it for about 5 seconds and realized I knew how to do it. I change my tyres all the time - fascinates the blazes out of my coach since he lost a $20 bet I could go from hard rubber to Fat Daddys in under a minute. Changing the callout is the same thing: push pin in, pull wheel off, push pin in, put wheel on - you just put the pin in another hole. We did it, horse harnessed and hitched in under 2 minutes - mostly because the coach was worried PJ would walk off while we had a wheel off the 'Bike
> 
> Its always fun to watch the reaction. I'll do ya one better Miss Cheryl.
> 
> ...


I am really sorry but I just have to say that I think this is NOT a good idea. Pit stops are for race cars - inanimate objects that don't have a mind of their own and the ability to leave while you are working on them. Carriage driving shows have a rule that you can't have a horse hitched and NOT be in the cart. There is a reason for the rule. To have the horse hitched, a person sitting in the cart AND a wheel OFF the cart??? Again, I must have just seen way too many accidents to think this was a brilliant demonstration of the advantages to this cart. If I thought it was dangerous before..... Hopefully not too many people will EVER see this again.


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 2, 2010)

Oops! Sorry - double post.


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## RhineStone (Dec 2, 2010)

Carriage said:


> Have we brought the pit-stop concept to miniature horse driving?...


Most minis I have seen are not good enough to tolerate a pit stop, even if their drivers think they are (Actually that is probably THE biggest reason I suggest not taking up this idea. If you think your horse can handle it, then you are too inexperienced of a driver.) Yes, Merridy's horse is probably a rare exception. (I don't know the horse and just met Merridy, but I have heard stories and seen their accomplishments.) Even so....

The photo below was the result of a "pit stop". After the pony was harnessed and put to, the driver decided that the wheel was low in air. So they decided to pump it up with the air compressor with the pony still in the cart. Needless to say, the pony got away from the header (again, nobody in the vehicle) and took off around the farm yard. This is what was left of the wheel.






So much for driving that day!



Thank goodness the pony still drives.

There is a reason that driving rules are the way they are....to try to keep people from doing stupid stuff.

(I don't know you, Bob, but I like you. I'm glad it worked out for you, but....please don't do that again....



)

Myrna


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## Carriage (Dec 3, 2010)

(I don't know you, Bob, but I like you. I'm glad it worked out for you, but....please don't do that again....




)

Myrna

Well I like you to.

My apologies for not doing a MythBuster disclaimer in my post. Please let me make ammends.

Do not do this at home, EVER.

Actually that represented the ONLY time in 23 years that I have done that. It was done for effect and was, again, very calculated. Knew my driver, knew my rig, knew the horse. I am pure Scot, meaning, I don't gamble in anything. I would absolutely NEVER jeopardize a driver or horse. (disclaimer.) I do not advocate doing this.

However as most of the post was chucked in favor of focusing on a single and I might add well known point (duh),

I will offer my sincerest apologies and withdraw.


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## RhineStone (Dec 3, 2010)

Carriage said:


> However as most of the post was chucked in favor of focusing on a single and I might add well known point (duh),
> 
> I will offer my sincerest apologies and withdraw.


I didn't figure that was something that Bob did everyday. But from the questions that are asked on this forum, I know that there are EXTREME beginners that wouldn't get that. I wish that before anyone did anything with their mini (or big horse), they would ask themselves, "What happens if....(insert negative behavior here)." For example, if I lead my horse that is put to a cart, "What happens if he gets away from me?" If I am changing a part of the harness or cart, "What happens if my horse moves?" Just asking yourself this simple question would save a few of us A LOT of typing and people a lot of headaches, both literally and figuratively. Never assume that just because your horse hasn't done X that he won't in the future. He is still a horse. It's amazing the number of mini owners that think, "My horse would never do that...." Just because he is "little" doesn't mean he isn't dangerous.

To get back to the original topic of adjustments, yes, it is very good to try to adjust the cart as much as possible to fit the horse and driver. Sometimes this takes an educated eye. I am not familiar enough with a Hyperbike to make comments how how to adjust one, so I am glad that Bob chimed in to talk about it.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 3, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> Carriage driving shows have a rule that you can't have a horse hitched and NOT be in the cart.


At some point there has to come a time when the driver steps out of the cart. Even if I have a groom to help, I'm not going to sit in that cart while he harnesses my horse and continue to sit there while he unhitches at the end! Even in the olden days the horse was hitched, _then_ the driver mounted the vehicle. Once mounted, the groom stepped away from the horse's head and mounted as well. Not commenting on the pit stop thing, but it is unrealistic to expect that in the modern world where most of the time our helpers are friends or family who may not know a thing about driving or even horses, the driver is never going to step out of the cart to fix something. From what my local ADS officials have told me that rule is intended to indicate that they don't want the driver standing beside the cart watching a class with nobody on the box seat, not that the driver may never dismount.



RhineStone said:


> If you think your horse can handle [something], then you are too inexperienced of a driver.


I don't think my horse can handle, with 100% reliability, anything. As you said, he's a horse. Stuff happens! And no horse, no matter how bombproof, should be trusted not to react. Trusting leads to carelessness which leads to accidents. But if you have the proper precautions in place at some point you can generally say that your horse is trained to handle xyz. If we didn't we'd have to consider every 20 year veteran to still be a green horse and totally unreliable!



RhineStone said:


> I wish that before anyone did anything with their mini (or big horse), they would ask themselves, "What happens if....(insert negative behavior here)." For example, if I lead my horse that is put to a cart, "What happens if he gets away from me?" If I am changing a part of the harness or cart, "What happens if my horse moves?" Just asking yourself this simple question would save a few of us A LOT of typing and people a lot of headaches, both literally and figuratively.


This is a good principle but at some point it becomes an educated decision. There is risk in everything- if we stopped to think about all the bad things that could possibly happen, we'd never get out of bed in the morning. Know the risks, consider the consequences for yourself, the horse, and others, and act appropriately with proper respect for safety. That is all anyone can do.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Dec 3, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> From what my local ADS officials have told me that rule is intended to indicate that they don't want the driver standing beside the cart watching a class with nobody on the box seat, not that the driver may never dismount.


Actually, it's not a hard and fast rule either, just a strong suggestion for the same reasons that Leia mentioned. It is too hard to determine (by the rules) when you should be on the box or not. Quite a few years ago even before it was a strong suggestion in the rule book, we were at a show and I wanted to watch my sister's cones go. So I asked my husband to head the horse (a big one). The TD came over (Craig Kellogg) and suggested that someone be on the box. We were so used to 4-H rules where nobody but the driver dare "work with" the horse, that it didn't occur to me to have Chad get in the cart. It made sense after Craig explained it to us. If only I would have asked myself, "What could happen if....".





When you know better, you do better.

Myrna


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## shorthorsemom (Dec 4, 2010)

To all the experienced drivers out there... I have a question.

I have been following this thread, (I read everything on driving I see posted) ... Do all of you have a groom assistant hold your horse for mounting and dismounting the cart every time you go out? Currently I am doing this because I am a newbie at driving. My assistant is at the horses head when I start and is there when I get back for the dismount and finish. I am not always going to be fortunate to have assistance available at all times that I want to drive. So, is it considered a driving "no-no" to tack, mount and go driving by yourself and come back and dismount and untack by yourself? In other words, if I cannot enlist help for my start and finish, should I skip the drive? For now I am only driving with somebody there to assist the mount and dismount because I am a green rookie, but I am thinking farther down the road when I get more miles under my belt.


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## drivin*me*buggy (Dec 4, 2010)

Driving is dangerous- it is what it is- and like anything in life you make a risk assessment. You accept responsibility for the risks you take and develop good judgment and skills. Educate yourself. I am always learning- and forever will be a student of this sport and life. That being said...

I do not have anyone head my horse. I mainly end up working alone. Let me start again. I have done all the training on my horses (and before that mini donkeys). So I have taken HOURS with them ground driving, then intro to cart, then hitched. When I hitch for the first few times, I will have someone there in case I need some one. But then we are flying solo. For example- I got Buck when he was 9 month old. We hung out, "played", instilled manners and exposed him to everything I could find. I'd lead him while pulling a metal radio flyer wagon around, over grass and our stone driveway...I have him come w/ me when I bring the garbage cans down from the road...I play the radio- he is nearby when my husband has shot his gun. I got him used to having things all over him so harness was no big deal.

At 18 months we started ground driving and ground drove til he was 3, when I hitched him. He took it all in stride.

The most important thing your horse needs to know is to stand- When I say Whoa- stand- it means don't move your feet- and they know that.

It is AWESOME that you have a trainer to help you now. But I think eventually you will be fine to do it by yourself. I have my horses tied to the post outside their paddock when I harness and hitch. I use a buckle nose halter and once they are hitched I unbuckle. have them step over from the post and whoa/stand...get in the cart and go.

When I am done driving, we whoa/stand. I dismount, take the cart off-the beauty of minis is I can undo both sides and take the cart off from the same side. then we wlk to the post and finish unharnessing.

It is what works for me and has for 10 yrs. I am very cautious and aware of my horse and what is going on. I know some people who have crossties set up in their area. I hope others chime in and share what they do.

On another note, and to keep this also pertinent to my original topic of the Hyperbike. I have found getting in and out of the Hyperbike no more dangerous than getting in or out of a road cart or meadowbrook , or even my wooden easy entry cart with the big wooden wheels. The most important this is your horse needs to stand. Once in- be prepared to smile- because it is comfy and FUN! Buck LOVES it.



If you haven't tried one- you really can't say





I am going to try and find the time to put together a video of me and Buck from assembling it to getting in and driving. Even my hubby-who isn't a cart guy- thinks it is so cool and so well made.

Angie


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## RhineStone (Dec 4, 2010)

I don't always have a header, and actually even when I am working with a green horse, I only have that person there, not holding my horse. The horse needs to learn to stand without someone holding them. However, I have been driving for about 20 years and competitively for 10. I wouldn't recommend someone green not having someone else there. And I really don't like driving when there is not someone else on the property. I might lay there an awful long time if I were to get hurt. If my husband isn't home, our son suits the bill. They don't have to stand there, just be somewhere within shouting distance.

Myrna


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## shorthorsemom (Dec 4, 2010)

Thank you for the input, helps alot. I can see why my trainer is having me set up a specific way right now while I am learning, makes sense to read the post and put what I am being taught to do in perspective. My trainer had me put down a rubber mat in between the gate posts of my training pen with two cross ties attached to the gate posts. (Kind of like target training a dog.) We then tack and put the cart on there. I use a header, she has taught my daughter to head for me, but she is only there for support, we insist on a perfect stand from my boy. When ready I detach the cross ties, enter the cart from the rear, pick up my whip and ask him to stand a couple of seconds more, and then we go forward into my training pen where I warm up, then we circle and leave the pen and go out to work on trails. When finished trails we do some cone work, and then I stop on the same mat, my header watches until I exit and then we take off the cart and harness while cross tied. I have one of those buckle halters too which works well. We insist on no movement at all from my boy, the header is just there to be safe in case my newbie status affects anything. It is working well. Somebody is always here on the farm so I wouldn't really be alone.

Hey Angie, I put money down on a hyperbike on Bob's layaway plan.

Someday I will be posting that "my hyperbike is here", until then training in my meadowbrook with lots of supervision with emphasis on safety. Thanks Myrna and Angie for posting!


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## Carriage (Dec 4, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> Thank you for the input, helps alot. I can see why my trainer is having me set up a specific way right now while I am learning, makes sense to read the post and put what I am being taught to do in perspective.
> 
> Sounds like your trainer has great value to you and is starting with first things first.
> 
> ...


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 4, 2010)

shorthorsemom said:


> To all the experienced drivers out there... I have a question.I have been following this thread, (I read everything on driving I see posted) ... Do all of you have a groom assistant hold your horse for mounting and dismounting the cart every time you go out? Currently I am doing this because I am a newbie at driving. My assistant is at the horses head when I start and is there when I get back for the dismount and finish. I am not always going to be fortunate to have assistance available at all times that I want to drive. So, is it considered a driving "no-no" to tack, mount and go driving by yourself and come back and dismount and untack by yourself? In other words, if I cannot enlist help for my start and finish, should I skip the drive?


To be completely candid, yes, it is generally considered a no-no. So many things can go wrong, especially with a full-sized horse, and an accident with no one there to help you extricate the horse or notice that you haven't come back could be a terrible tragedy. Those who say that are absolutely correct. At the same time, I think Angie really nailed it on the head with this statement:



drivin*me*buggy said:


> Driving is dangerous- it is what it is- and like anything in life you make a risk assessment. You accept responsibility for the risks you take and develop good judgment and skills. Educate yourself. I am always learning- and forever will be a student of this sport and life.














Risk assessment and taking responsibility for the results are a big part of it. If I am not comfortable with my horse's behavior on a given day, if he is scaring me or I feel uncomfortable for any reason, I will not drive no matter what my plans were. *I listen to my gut!* If my green horse is wired and IMO not ready to hitch that day, I will ground-drive until he either is or we're both tired and done. Heck, if I even have an unspecified bad feeling on a given day, I listen to it. Maybe there's a bear I don't know about out on that trail. Maybe a drunk guy in the bushes. Whatever. If my guardian angel wants to tap my shoulder, I'm going to listen.

But like you, I have taken the time to educate myself and consider all the "what-if's." I know my horse and have done my groundwork with him. I do my best to prevent, through good training, good equipment and good practices, any sort of foreseeable problem. And then I take responsibility for the results, hitch up and go. If something goes wrong it is my fault, not the horse's. If I get hurt, I have no one to blame but myself. I am more concerned about accidentally injuring an innocent bystander or my horse and weigh any risk to them much more heavily than one to myself.

I'll be honest with you- I would never drive a full-sized horse by myself. Ever. I will drive a mini alone. Not because they are any less dangerous, but because my personal threshold is defined by whether I think I could get that horse out of trouble by myself. If a big horse goes down and gets tangled in harness it's going to take at least two people, preferably a swarm, to get him out safely. Someone must hold his head down, someone undo harness straps on each side, someone else help roll that heavy cart back, etc. One person cannot possibly do that safely. Especially not someone my size! Even hitching is risky as you must go around that large vehicle even to check a simple buckle and if that horse goes over top of you you're dead. With minis you can usually hold the horse's head and still reach the breeching buckle, nevermind the rest of the harness, at one time.



I can lift any of my carts by myself and flip them upright with one hand while still holding the horse. Even at my featherlight 106lbs, I can hold the horse down by myself (given the correct leverage) and undo harness straps. And at least when driving my own horse I not only know them, but they know - and more importantly, trust - me. I will not drive my mini alone if I can help it and not at all until they have proven to me that they'll listen and respond to me even when startled or afraid. I will not drive a mini I do not have that bond with alone. Those are my personal boundaries and may not necessarily be correct for someone else.

I've had accidents (anyone who's been driving for long enough eventually will) and have found the above comments to be correct for me and my individual horses. They may still bolt, spook, back into a fence or whatever, but once the accident is over and we're dealing with the aftermath my horses know to trust me to get them out and will lie there or stand steady while I get them untangled. And it is still better to have someone with you!



I had one very bad accident with a friend's horse at the Kentucky Horse Park where I was SO GLAD I had two other people with me...and we'd have still been in trouble if they were both driving their own horses! Thankfully one was riding her Connemara and was able to dismount and tie him to a tree long enough to dive into the bushes in which my mare was stuck and help me get her free. She was panicked and lunging so someone absolutely had to stand at her head, and given that I'd injured my wrist and opposite shoulder in being dislodged from the cart it would have been nice to have a third person to help with getting the harness off. I thank God that the adrenaline was flowing strongly enough for me to wrench on those harp-taut harness buckles because otherwise we might never have gotten her out. (By an hour later I couldn't even open a car door without literally screaming.) If we'd only been out with single-passenger mini rigs, I think someone would have had to go for help while I stood at the mare's head because we would not have been able to safely get her out by ourselves. Lesson learned- especially if you are only going out with other drivers, each person should carry a halter so they can unhitch and tie their horses and come help someone in trouble! And thank God the other driver with me had a bench seat and a big mini so I was able to get a ride home leading the mare.

Another safety note that accident reminds me of- I was very glad I was carrying a knife and a cell phone, both zipped into their pockets so I couldn't lose them, and wearing a helmet and driving gloves. Both saved me serious injury. If you do go out by yourself, put your cell phone number somewhere on the horse's harness and make sure you've got a local emergency contact saved in your phone! I realized too late that while I had the mare's owner's phone number programmed in, I didn't have a contact number for any of my friends back at the barn that could have come and found me. Oops!



Carriage said:


> This method of teaching and learning is referred to as crawl, walk, run. You don't proceed to running without having completed the pre-requisites of 1)crawl, 2) walk. To do so, is to set yourself and your horse up for failure and the resulting situational fall-out. ...Also the willingness to accept the reality/fact that you are always and forever training, to me, is key not just to this topic but through-out life.


So true. I wish more people would remember this applies to our horses as well! So often the horse seems to be accepting things so the person plows ahead without checking to see that the animal really "has its balance" and is ready to proceed.





Oh, and to keep this Hyperbike-related: yes, the KHP accident above occurred while driving a 'Bike. It survived amazingly well and was back in service the next day! The vehicle had nothing to do with the cause of the incident.

Leia


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 4, 2010)

Carriage said:


> However sometimes, 'instructors', like critics, lack even a core knowledge of the topic they would choose to teach to others. That being said, there have been repeated and baseless charges of a certain carts safety shortcomings. As I am in a position to know and am at a loss in attempting to confirm these charges, I would politely ask the poster to enumerate these safety issues. Failure to do so would then move me to politely ask the poster to please stop doing so.
> 
> Bb


At first I was going to just ignore this because I wasn't sure if you were referring to me or not but, then, I realized that it doesn't really matter who you were referring to. I have nothing personal against you Bob, I don't know you at all but you seem like a nice enough fella. Do I think the Hyperbike is a more dangerous than necessary vehicle? Yes I do. Would I recommend it to one of my clients/students? No I wouldn't. Neither would I recommend a meadowbrook, whose method of entry is by raising the seat and entering from behind, or a 4 wheel vehicle that is not a cutunder, to a beginner driver or anyone else for that matter. Both of those types of vehicles have been proven to be more dangerous than necessary - there are other vehicles that have a better design.

When I first saw a Hyperbike I was intrigued. You are closer to the horse and it is a bit closer to riding than your average vehicle. Looked pretty neat! Someone in Ontario (forum member) had one for sale and I inquired. I was sent photos, some good closeups of all the features. When I got looking at it I thought: How the heck do you get in the seat? I asked and was told that you got in the shafts between the horse and the seat and then hop up on the seat. Do I think this is an unnecessarily dangerous way to mount? Yes I do. Have I ever owned or driven a Hyperbike? No I haven't and I won't because I don't feel they are worth the risk because it only takes once. You get almost the same sensation driving my sulky bike whose seat I can sit down on, swing my legs over and enter much more safely. THE most dangerous instant in driving is entering or exiting your vehicle - more accidents happen then.

After having driven for almost 30 years and having seen or experienced personally a lot of the bad things that can happen when driving a horse I am very cautious as I don't personally want to die or become disabled - I have a little girl I love and who needs a mother. There are so many good vehicles out there that I don't feel it is necessary to put myself at any more risk than is necessary (and driving, as all things do, comes with inherent risks already that I have accepted because I enjoy it so much)by trying out a vehicle that I feel is more dangerous than necessary. Do I feel that people have a right to know the drawbacks to something as well as the good points? Yes I do.

Someone was asking about the safety of driving alone. I drive alone all the time because training horses is my full time job. I drive very green beginner horses constantly and 99% of the time I am on my own. I work very carefully and cautiously because I don't want myself or the horse injured. I carry a knife on my person at all times when working with horses, as well as a small set of pliers because I have found them handy to have in the event of an accident. I don't take unnecessary risks because even with my cautious behaviour sometimes things still go wrong.

I haven't heard of a lot of accidents regarding the Hyperbike but then, it hasn't been around for long nor are there a lot of them in use yet. This doesn't make me think that they are safe, just that I haven't heard about the accidents involved or that they haven't happened YET. You can do something 100 times and nothing goes wrong but that 101st time...... I doubt that if it was available in horse size you would get a lot of people using them.

This is North America where we practice free speech and I feel I have a right to my opinion as does everyone else. I have never once come on here and said "Are you crazy? DON'T buy a Hyperbike!" and I never will but if someone asks for an opinion I will not tell them that I feel the Hyperbike is as safe as any other vehicle. Sorry Bob.

Thank you for coming on here and admitting that removing the wheel while the horse was hitched and the driver seated was not a great idea and really shouldn't be done. It is wise to remember when posting that there are a lot of people reading that are complete novices and wouldn't necessarily realize what could have happened. When an expert such as yourself says it can be done there are many who would try it.

"Carriage driving shows have a rule that you can't have a horse hitched and NOT be in the cart."

"At some point there has to come a time when the driver steps out of the cart. Even if I have a groom to help, I'm not going to sit in that cart while he harnesses my horse and continue to sit there while he unhitches at the end!"

Yes and this was what made the rule a bit of a joke when it first came about. Their intention was good - their wording was not! I had an occasion when I finished hitching and got in my cart, realized I had forgotten my gloves and had my groom hold the horse while I dashed into the trailer to grab my gloves. The TD came over and told me that I couldn't have my groom hold the horse and if it happened again I would be asked to leave. I also couldn't have him IN the cart holding the reins because he wasn't old enough and what I should have done was unhitch the horse just so I could run and grab my gloves! Believe me, I am VERY careful now to be sure I have EVERYTHING BEFORE I get in my cart. My groom IS old enough to head my horse while I mount after hitching!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 4, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> When I got looking at it I thought: How the heck do you get in the seat? I asked and was told that you got in the shafts between the horse and the seat and then hop up on the seat. Do I think this is an unnecessarily dangerous way to mount? Yes I do. Have I ever owned or driven a Hyperbike? No I haven't and I won't because I don't feel they are worth the risk because it only takes once. *You get almost the same sensation driving my sulky bike whose seat I can sit down on, swing my legs over and enter much more safely.* THE most dangerous instant in driving is entering or exiting your vehicle - more accidents happen then.


I so agree about entering the vehicle being the most dangerous moment! I have never been able to get in my Graber roadster cart except by stepping over the shafts and then sitting down so I have never felt mounting that vehicle to be any different from mounting my Hyperbike except in having a little more room before the seat takes your legs out from under you if the horse jumps forward. If you can get in in a safer manner, more power to you. Wish I could!



The older style of Hyperbike has a small scoop seat which you could have sat down on that way and spun. I prefer the model with a seat back though as I think it is much more secure over rough terrain than any cart without a seat back.

I also personally like having adjustable stirrups with some grip on them, something my Graber roadster cart does not offer. I've darn near done a faceplant on the singletree more than once when my foot suddenly slipped free of the stirrup because it was too far away and we went over a bump!





Whatever cart you drive, I think it's important that things be adjusted correctly for the driver to be secure. As you said, there are many carts that are worrisome in various ways and that I would not drive because I felt them unsafe. For me, personally, the Hyperbike is far safer than my regular carts once I'm in it and only as dangerous as my others to mount. That may not be the case for someone else!



MiLo Minis said:


> I haven't heard of a lot of accidents regarding the Hyperbike but then, it hasn't been around for long nor are there a lot of them in use yet.


 Not to argue over minutia, but the Hyperbike is hardly a new vehicle.



I think they've been out there for over a decade and I believe there's quite a few around. Muffy Seaton has one I think!



MiLo Minis said:


> I doubt that if it was available in horse size you would get a lot of people using them.


Absolutely not. How on earth would you mount it? Normal racing sulkies for full-sized horses serve the same purpose, weight-wise, as the Hyperbike does for the minis.

Thank you, by the way, for sharing your well-reasoned opinion. It is always good to hear another side of things!

Leia


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 5, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> I so agree about entering the vehicle being the most dangerous moment! I have never been able to get in my Graber roadster cart except by stepping over the shafts and then sitting down so I have never felt mounting that vehicle to be any different from mounting my Hyperbike except in having a little more room before the seat takes your legs out from under you if the horse jumps forward. If you can get in in a safer manner, more power to you. Wish I could!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are inherent risks in driving, as I said before, and there are aspects to every vehicle that may or may not suit you personally knowing your own risk level. I do feel it is important to have both the pros and cons before choosing one. I may not like anything but an easy entry as I get older and it gets harder to swing my legs around 



 but even as a younger driver I would not choose a Hyperbike.


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## shorthorsemom (Dec 5, 2010)

I have a meadowbrook and I want a hyperbike. I am not young or limber and I have little kids.





There is so much to think about. I had all of my previous driving experience 31 years ago. I exercised standardbred race horses when I was young and I drove a pair and several single ponies all over the road and in fields and a sleigh. I never thought about it much back then, just got in and drove. Now I am getting back into it, and taking lessons and taking it real slow. There is so much more to it than I remember back then. I hopped into a sulky or jog cart and just went out onto the track along with all the other grooms out there in the morning. The pair of ponies I drove at fairs and birthday parties, one time I remember beiing set up at a fair right next to the ferris wheel and never even thought about it being a danger or scary for our ponies.

I navigated a couple of times at beginner level shows about 15 years ago, but basically just sat and leaned when the driver told me to and I also got to do the stop watch part. Somebody must have been watching over me back then in my ignorance and naive self.

I hope to be smarter this time and get plenty of instruction to balance and compensate for my older, less limber more chubby self. My meadowbrook is easy to enter from the rear and I haven't had any issues with it except that it is heavy for my boy to pull with me in it when he is still so out of shape. What I was hoping for was to use both the meadowbrook and the hyperbike to do cross conditioning on my mini boy. Thanks for all the diverse comments and postings, Still much to think about. I have a lesson today, it is horribly windy out and really cold.

I never thought to bring a knife and pliers... thanks for that advice. Maybe one of those multi tool thingys for Christmas would be good to carry. I do carry my cell on my person, I remember a riding friend of mine watching her horse run away with her cell phone in the saddlebag. Not much good there. thanks for all the posting!


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## studiowvw (Dec 5, 2010)

All the posts are so interesting - thanks to all for their efforts.

I'm kinda with the Carriage guy on this one - there's a lot of linking the word "dangerous" with the cart in mention.

Would it not be more accurate to say "I feel vulnerable in this position"? Then go about minimizing the vulnerability. (Or don't use the cart.)

Hopefully (and obviously) those experienced drivers have put a lot of time into preparation and training and ongoing work. So the odds are, if you take the time to read the situation, you are not in any particular danger. (No more than any other cart.)

Hopefully, one would ask one's self:

"Am I limber enough to get into this or any cart quickly?"

"What could go wrong and how can I minimize those possibilities?"

If things are looking good (with yourself, your training of your horse, your reading of the day's situation), then:

one could say, "Looks like I can!" and go ahead. Smile, pray if you have to and put positive thoughts in your head.





Why do children and young people just go ahead with horses and do things as listed in the previous post by "Shorthorsemom"?

Partly because they have no fear. The fear is not in their head and not in their body. The horse does not read "fear" off his/her handler and has confidence.

Ray Hunt (one of the fathers of natural horsemanship) says to "visualize" what you want the horse to do first. I would say let's spend more time visualizing in a positive way (without stupidity, of course.) If you are visualizing disaster, I think you are setting up your mind and body and horse to experience it.

A friend who is an experienced CDE driver who has taken lessons with a number of talented and experienced drivers, told me she was taught to THINK what you want the horse to do, then FEEL it, then SAY the voice command, then use the REIN if you have to. However it gets to the horse from THINK and FEEL, it sets up the right response from SAYING and REINING.

Now I understand there are many basic beginners who get on here and it is necessary to give sensible advice (as in: all horse handling is dangerous, driving can be dangerous, get lessons, get knowledge, etc.) and you all are quite amazing at being patient with us





How about a disclaimer at the bottom of everyone's posts mentioning the dangers? (It could always be pointed out if necessary.)

People get killed riding bicycles, riding motorcycles, falling down stairs, etc. and even sitting at your computer is dangerous (did you know sitting for more than 4 hours at a time kickstarts dangerous signals through your body that can lead to ill health and death - and I'm not joking.)

I know I will almost always be driving alone, so knowing this, I am hopefully setting this up for success by acknowledging it and planning for it. I appreciate the many comments on ways to lessen risk.

However, I think the insistence on "dangerous" "dangerous" "dangerous" is actually somewhat dangerous in its own.

Wilma

a relative newcomer to this forum, so slap me if I have overstepped


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## RhineStone (Dec 5, 2010)

I think that every vehicle has it's inherent risks, especially in the mounting or dismounting. Most people know that I am NOT a fan of those crappy little pipe "Easy Entry" carts that most mini people want. I think those are some of the poorest designed, cheap vehicles out there, but look how many people have them! And yes, I have drove in one, and shown small shows in one, and after having a "real" cart, I hate them. Compared to a well-designed and constructed vehicle (which you pay for), the ride is terrible, the paint job doesn't last, the leg space tends to be too shallow for a taller person, and the seat is too shallow as well; they are noisy and hard to "turn out" (what do you wear in the ring and look like you "fit"?), the pnuematic wheels aren't good for much more than simple flat work arena driving or smooth trails at best, and the vinyl seat, while wonderful to clean, is extremely slippery and contributes to the "easy exit". Yes, they are very easy to get into (which is about their ONLY accolade besides the price), but they are also VERY easy to get out of, and not always on your own accord. But EVERYBODY wants one.





However, with the exception of truly homemade - with no knowledge of driving safety - vehicles ("Let's make a little red wagon into a mini cart...."), every vehicle has it's place. We have step over the shaft vehicles, sit on the seat and spin your leg vehicles, step over the double-bend shaft vehicles, a rear entry Meadowbrook, vehicles with steps, a step over and into the box - not cut-under Runabout, and a Marathon vehicle that you have to pull your leg up onto a pad on the front axle. Every one of those vehicles has it's own "pain to get into" aspect. The common denominator about all those vehicles is the horse you have in the front. While you can't guarantee 100% that your horse is never going to move, you can work this into your training plans, which I'm sure that the good trainers here do. What I find absolutely silly is the people that have to have a header to "hold back" their horse until the driver is barely settled into the cart, and then the header "lets go" and the horse shoots forward! How stupid is that!

Now that beind said, there are some of the above vehicles we own and build that would not necessarily be vehicles for certain people. For example, I would not advocate a beginner driver (less than at least 3-4 years experience) driving our Runabout. It is too easy to jackknife, but there are divisions around here just for Country (not cut under) vehicles. It is a part of our heritage. If you have limited mobility, you probably don't want a step over the shaft vehicle. We watched a number of elderly drivers getting ready for the Old Guard class at Walnut Hill. One guy practically took more time to get in and out of the vehicle than the class lasted! We have a friend that has diabetes with foot problems and she really likes her rear-entry Mini Meadowbrook.

I would not consider the Hyperbike to be an "only" vehicle, but it definitely has it's place. I would love to see if I could shave time off my hazards with a Hyperbike. However, I wouldn't show up at a ADS pleasure show with one. It wouldn't "fit", but that is not what it was designed for, either. And I would not consider it a green driver/green horse vehicle. But considering the disadvantages of a crappy metal pipe cart, I don't think that is a good for a green driver/green horse vehicle.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 5, 2010)

Awesome post Wilma, in all ways!!



:yeah



:yeah (You too, Myrna.)

I think you and I would really get along. Where do you live?

Leia


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## susanne (Dec 5, 2010)

As one with somewhat limited mobility, I take extreme caution entering and existing any cart. Looking at full-size carts, I get rather queazy considering the mechanics of climbing in via a tiny step positioned directly in front of a very large wheel. I would do it, but I would want a header.

My personal experience to date is limited to my CTM easy entry, several HyperBikes, an ancient wooden show cart and a distinctly NON easy entry pony cart. Of these, I've felt safest getting in and out of the HyperBike. I simultaneously put one leg over the shaft and sit down, then lift the other leg onto the stirrup.

I felt terribly uneasy climbing over the shaft into the pony cart, and even with the easy entry, I have a brief moment of extreme vulnerability stepping in -- with the height of the cart with the lift kit (which puts it at the right height for38 inch Mingus), I have to step up and then sit down. I have this down to a brief couple of seconds, but if he took off at this moment, I'd be in deep doodoo (mine, no doubt).

Of all of these carts, the moment of vulnerability is briefest in the HyperBike. And, as Leia noted, the seat is positioned so that it would catch me behind my knees and seat me (albeit rather abruptly) in the cart.

Once in the cart, the full height seat back and stirrups allows for bracing myself, so I feel extremely secure, even when Mingus changed his mind about descending a steep bank into a creek and turned to the side, putting me at a rakish 45 degree angle. Any other cart would have left me swimming with the fishies.

I have to agree, Lori, that this is not the cart for a green horse, especially if you are working alone; however, I trained Mingus with the pony cart that required climbing over the shaft onto a bench seat with no back, so how safe is that? My stomach flip-flops just remembering.

As others have stated, there is danger in all carts and carriages, and we all have to carefully assess the risks as they apply to our individual situations. It is wise to look at this with a critical eye and consider all possibilities, and new whips in particular need to learn all they can before driving, whatever the cart.


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## shorthorsemom (Dec 5, 2010)

Thanks for all the postings! awesome information!

I am green but my mini has miles and experience and I am working hand in hand with a very experienced trainer. I am so glad for that. I was working previously driving training two of my mini boys, but green on green was so difficult I never progressed to actually driving, just line driving. My new boy has been there and done that and competed in CDE. Oh what a difference to learn on an experienced horse. I am so glad I am able to learn on an experienced horse, it is making such a difference!

I just got in from my lesson and it felt great. My trainer had me doing 4 sets of off set cones at a trot. When I was finished she says to me, this is not just for showing, now you know how wide your cart is and can avoid trees and fence posts and you can accurately judge the width of your cart. We also did a canter up a hill and a trail drive and some ring work and I learned different ways to hold the reins (one handed vs two handed). Can't beat working with a trainer. Confidence building and working up trust in my boy. After all these weeks of working I can feel his trust is there with me too. We are becoming a team. Today was by far the best lesson yet. The wind was whipping and I was freezing and tarps over the equipment in the shed looked like they were going to take off and fly. He never missed a beat. I needed that.


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## drivin*me*buggy (Dec 5, 2010)

I think this has been a great thread





Shorthorsemom- sounds like you had a great time today!! Bravo! We are going to need some pix you know





And to keep this Hyperbike related:

Buck and I drove 30 minutes this afternoon towards our 100 hour challenge. All in all I got to spend about an hour and 15 min with my little man in total.



It was freezing, wind blowing, snowing at times. Buckers was a good boy- even when we were stalked by a stray cat! LOL

Angie


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## studiowvw (Dec 5, 2010)

Thank you, Leia - I live in Ontario, Canada so we will probably never meet. Oh well! Never say never - maybe one day I'll experience driving on the beach - those pics are so cool!

One day I hope to have a Hyperbike too - maybe next year.

Myrna!!!!

I totally agree on the Easy entry carts. I see them being recommended on here and I am not sure I concur. However, many people seem to use them.

I had one for a short while. It came in a box and I assembled it. It goes together with lots of bolts and nuts.

Who's to say those nuts are going to stay done up? I found they loosened off, and if I had kept it I would have felt I had to check all connections before and after every ride. The other thing was the seat, which slides for balance, would not stay in the position I put it in.

Thank God I sold it.


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## shorthorsemom (Dec 5, 2010)

drivin*me*buggy said:


> I think this has been a great thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Angie, you are so right, I did have a great time. Gets better each time we go out. I have no idea how to post photos but someday I hope to do so. I have a few my trainer took of me a few weeks ago, but my favorite photos are of my trainer driving my boy, she does so make it look easy.

I am hoping to take photos about once a month or so to see if I can see a difference. My big accomplishment today was not looking at the cones as I was passing between them and how to set up for the next set of cones when my knees were passing through the set I was driving through. Hard to explain, but I was actually getting it. I only squashed one cone, but I was supposed to squash one on purpose this lesson anyway.

great thread... you will have to tell me more about the 100 hour challenge.

Adair


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 5, 2010)

studiowvw said:


> Thank you, Leia - I live in Ontario, Canada so we will probably never meet. Oh well! Never say never - maybe one day I'll experience driving on the beach - those pics are so cool!


Where in Ontario are you located? I am in Ontario too so we could easily meet some day and most likely will!



There are several driving clubs here that you might be interested in joining and the Miniature Horse Club of Ontario too - the Fun Drive is always a good time. And if you want to go driving on the beach there are quite a few here that I have taken a run on!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 5, 2010)

Adair, sounds like you had a great lesson! Congratulations.



studiowvw said:


> Thank you, Leia - I live in Ontario, Canada so we will probably never meet. Oh well! Never say never - maybe one day I'll experience driving on the beach - those pics are so cool!


You never know- I have lots of forum friends in Ontario and just might try to make it up there someday!



You are always welcome to join us down here for a beach drive, with or without a horse. We have lots of fun.







studiowvw said:


> I totally agree on the Easy entry carts. I see them being recommended on here and I am not sure I concur. However, many people seem to use them.
> I had one for a short while. It came in a box and I assembled it. It goes together with lots of bolts and nuts. Who's to say those nuts are going to stay done up? I found they loosened off, and if I had kept it I would have felt I had to check all connections before and after every ride.


I think it's all in the individual cart or manufacturer. So many brands of EE are total [email protected]! I've got one of the major "name brand" EE's and have had no problems at all with the bolts and such. Now my nice wooden cart, on the other hand, came in boxes, is assembled with lots of bolts and nuts and must be checked before and after every single drive as they are always coming loose!



It is by far my least-reliable or comfortable ride although I have now replaced all the regular nuts with nylon locking ones that can't work loose.

My EE survived being thrown from the bed of my truck down the freeway at 60 mph during an accident with only a couple of paint scratches from where it hit the concrete tumbling end-over-end.



And yes, it was tied down when it happened. We came to halt so hard the ties broke and the cart was ejected. After I got over the shock of jack-knifing and checked on the horse I found it sitting ahead of us on the freeway, looking like someone had nicely unloaded it and left it sitting there almost undamaged. Even the wire-spoked wheels were fine!



I put that in the same category as eggs that are found driven intact into trees after hurricanes, but still.





I know other EE's of the same brand that are 20 years old and still going strong. I love the look of a proper wooden vehicle, don't get me wrong, but with all the moisture we have around here that wood is prone to warping, the finish needs regular upkeep and refreshing, I have to be uber-careful of the paint, and the ones I've handled have been far heavier than I'd want in an exercise vehicle for a green horse. Nope, no thank you. Not my style. Give me a good (emphasis on "good!") pipe EE anyday! That is not my choice of competition vehicle in any venue, but I find it to be a great training and beach cart. As Myrna said, my Hyperbike is great for what it's built for (speed, agility, cross-country stability), my Bellcrown is perfect for CDE, and my easy entry also has it's place in my barn. That doesn't mean it does in someone else's!





Leia


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## RhineStone (Dec 5, 2010)

studiowvw said:


> Thank you, Leia - I live in Ontario, Canada so we will probably never meet. Oh well! Never say never -


The driving world is EXTREMELY small in the big scheme of things! So yes, I would never say never! I have met a whole lot of people this year when we went to Walnut Hill and the ADS meeting in KY that I only "knew" through my time here on the computer, photos in the ADS magazines, and the Mischka calendar! Lots of driving people "get around". You have to if you want to stay active, since a lot of the venues, especially the "prestigious" ones, are far away from each other.

WEG was a big deal for us this year, as one of the best qualifying shows was in neighboring IL. A lot of the "big" people came to us!



I can say that I didn't exactly "meet" most of them because I didn't feel "worthy enough" to introduce myself



, but with Chad gatoring for a WEG competitor at that CDE, we did get an "in" into that "world" that we would have never had a chance to otherwise. Now he wants to gator some more at that level! (I think_ I'll_ keep my feet on the ground for the higher level CDEs.



)

Myrna


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## studiowvw (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi Lori, I am in the eastern part, near Kingston. I'm told the Eastern Ontario driving club is great.

Yes, would love to do some beach driving one day!

If we were closer I'd probably come and get some driving lessons from you, but I think we are about 4-5 hours apart.

I drove a bit years ago with a great pony but junk harness and junk cart and sleigh, always had this dream of doing it right, now need some hours with a broke mini or pony to get my confidence up. Lacey has a good mind and a good nature for the purpose, but of course she is very young and I would like her started properly (to achieve my dream right this time).

Shorthorsemom, congrats on the progress!

Leia, thanks for the EE cart info - obviously they must work for many people as so many people have them.

I've got my brother interested in the design and building of carts now that I have so many (the carcass of my original pony cart from 35 years ago, the junker cart we're rebuilding to a better state, the metal roadster type I posted on here a couple of weeks ago about sizing, and the cool vintage one with the springs.)

I think I'm going to keep the $60 roadster type, the other two I am fixing up to sell. Once I get them gone, I'll start thinking about the carcass of the one I had years ago. It is nicely made and I had stripped the paint off it, primed and painted it about 15 years ago, so it is well preserved without the wood parts or wheels.

Meanwhile the vintage one is now in the kitchen and I'm going to strip the paint, wire brush the rusty parts (not a lot), repaint and hopefully sell before Christmas





Maybe eventually I can get my brother to weld up the cart that currently only lives in my dreams, haha

Myrna, it is true, never say never, because the most amazing things can happen unexpectedly!

Wilma


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 6, 2010)

I do get down to Kingston every once in a while as I have friends and clients there. I also sold one of my A stallions to Sally Steeves who lives just outside of Kingston and I visit with her once in a while.

I have several pipe carts both A and B and pony size and have found them very useful for my purpose. They are light and easy for a beginner horse to pull, inexpensive and easy to repair repeatedly!



I have one that is almost 25 years old and still on the road. I salvage all the good parts when one gets wrecked and use them to fix up the others if necessary. No they aren't good for much other than road or smooth field work but that is all I need them for. I have many other styles of carts for off road, rough usage.

Leia, I think you should get up to Ontario one of these days - we would all love to meet you!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 6, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> Leia, I think you should get up to Ontario one of these days - we would all love to meet you!









I finally have a passport so it's on my list, right along with going to NY for Walnut Hill! I am currently planning to attend AMHR Nationals for a few days in 2011 so I'm looking forward to hopefully meeting many of you there.



Fingers crossed I'll be able to bring my two boys in 2012!

Leia


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## studiowvw (Dec 7, 2010)

Hi again, Lori

I just looked up Sally Steeves who you mentioned above and I see she is located only about 10 or 15 miles from me - cool!

Wilma


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 7, 2010)

Oh! You should meet with her! She is a very nice lady, suffers from Parkinson's Disease unfortunately



but just a real sweetheart - loves her ponies!


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## midnight star stables (Dec 9, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> I do get down to Kingston every once in a while as I have friends and clients there. I also sold one of my A stallions to Sally Steeves who lives just outside of Kingston and I visit with her once in a while.


Pick/meet me up on the way for a road trip?



Drive on Lori!


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