# new here, building shafts



## minister man (Jan 6, 2014)

Hi There everyone, I am new here, but I have worked draft horses, and draft ponies( I had a team of welsh). I am working with a miniature now. I have been driving him around dragging a stick, with breast harness, but that puts the angle of draft wrong for breast harness and it wants to ride up too high.

So I am going to build a sled style fore cart with shafts, that will simply be a small platform with skis mounted to the bottom for runners.

Anyhow, I am wondering what you use for shafts for your minis? we always used hardwood 2x4 for the draft horses, but I would think that would be a little over kill for a 250 lbs horse. Our little fellow is built like a tiny draft horse, wide and heavy set, about 35 inches tall.

I was expecting that the shafts would need to be a couple feet wide at the back and maybe 18" wide at the front and 50 " long, with a 18" single tree on the cross bar for the traces. Does that sound about right? Do you think that 3/4 " galvanized water pipe would be heavy enough?

thanks


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## Rhondaalaska (Jan 7, 2014)

My cart has light weight metal shafts. I used PVC pipe for training . Made them like a Travis shape. I hope someone else can give you more ideas


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## Carriage (Jan 10, 2014)

Wow.

Aside from that one, words fail me.


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## minister man (Jan 11, 2014)

I don't understand why words fail you? Maybe I am missing something.


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## minister man (Jan 12, 2014)

Carriage said:


> Wow.
> 
> Aside from that one, words fail me.



That is a pretty easy comment to make, without backing it up with something.


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## Renolizzie (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi Minister Man -

Most people here aren't building their own carts. A cart has to be fairly light weight and yet sturdy. There are a number of factors to consider. I will guarantee you that galvanized pipe is not used in the building of a mini cart. Galvanized pipe is very heavy. Perhaps if you looked at some photos, you would get some idea of what is being used.

Please try to bear in mind that these are very small horses who can only pull a reasonable amount of weight. Read up, perhaps, and try to get educated on the various factors involved in having a little horse pull a load. The load should not press down on the horse's back but, instead, the cart should be well balanced and keep the weight off of the horses back.

Please be careful with your sled idea. It is not sounding like it would be safe for your little horse. When you ski, you turn by shifting your weight on the skis and/or sort of hopping into the air and a platform will not have your skis doing that, for one thing. Also, skis are very slippery so how will you manage to stop? You wouldn't want to push your little horse down with your sled.

So do some reading around the website. There is a lot of knowledge here. Please be careful with your little horse.


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## minister man (Jan 12, 2014)

Well, just to be clear, I did mention that I do have horse experience.............and I am not stupid.............. What I didn't mention is that the sled wasn't for sleigh riding or anything like that. It's sole purpose was to raise the angle of draft to a more appropriate angle than having a whiffle tree on the ground to drag a stick. I intended to put the stick behind the cart. Breast Collar harness is only designed for hauling when the point of attachment is level with the breast collar. Using it at any other angle is not only wrong, but uncomfortable for your horse, causing the breast collar to ride up on the windpipe. The fore cart idea was simply a training idea to keep from having to buy a full collar harness and a breast harness.

I see lots of people on u tube that pull a sled behind their mini, no shaves or anything else to stop the sled from hitting him. They are an accident waiting to happen, so seeing what other people are doing isn't always the answer either.

I know how to harness horses, hook horses, yard wood, garden, hay with horses, and drive horse. I know that is all big stuff compared to a miniature horse, but I am not a person starting from scratch. I just wanted to know what sized shafts people use on their miniatures. But I guess I will just experiment with some things.

Oh yeah, just because most people on here aren't building their own cart, doesn't mean they couldn't measure their carts shafts.


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## Renolizzie (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm just trying to converse with you and I don't know that much and I am trying to figure out what you are talking about. I just use a two wheeled mini cart with 48 inch shafts. We don't get enough snow to have a sled.


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## Renolizzie (Jan 12, 2014)

PS - it's nice to know that you are concerned about taking good care of your little guy.


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## minister man (Jan 12, 2014)

Ok, My Bad, I never really thought about the lack of snow thing. Bob sleds for the big horses don't turn like a wagon, where the runners turn. They are solid, but the sled isn't very long. So far this winter we have had about 36" of snow. This little fellow tends to get exercised where the yard is plowed. I live in the country on a little hobby farm with a couple of big horses and poultry. I don't need the mini to do a lot, but I want to train him to do some small work. I have no interest in showing him, but I do have an interest in spending time with him, and giving him the opportunity to please, which he likes very much. I am going to build a set of shafts for a little metal mesh garden wagon ( it is about 24" x 48" like a kids wagon only metal) so that I can move weeds, gather vegetables, maybe clean up some rocks or something. I know that he has a girth of about 48" so he weights somewhere around 320lbs, so he can only pull about 150lbs. I am sure I could do the same work with a wheel barrow, but I can't talk to a wheel barrow, well at least not while the neighbors are watching. And I don't have to do the pushing, if he does the pulling.

I wasn't expecting him to work like a draft horse or anything. But there are lots of things he can do. My plan would be to get him a team mate someday. There are places where you can buy scaled down farm equipment for minis, but not with just one.


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## Rhondaalaska (Jan 12, 2014)

I know there are some sites that sell replacement shafts for carts. Would that help you with dimensions . My cart is just a mini easy entry cart that is metal . The whole thing is about one hundred pounds. I like your idea of a sled made for minitures. I live where there is lots of snow. I just do not have the skills to make one. Hubby might but he is working long hours. I think I have 20" tires on my cart

I hope you are able to make your sled so you and your little one can have fun together.


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## paintponylvr (Jan 12, 2014)

Carriage said:


> Wow.
> 
> Aside from that one, words fail me.


*Please* explain what you mean by this! Because I sure don't understand where this is coming from or what it is regarding with what "Minister Man" wrote.

**********

Minister man -

Glad to see someone else *"using"* their mini! Good luck with the building of your sled/forecart.



Where are you? I have a set of metal shafts that were removed from our ez entry cart and sent back home with me when I changed to wooden shafts. There isn't a single tree, though, that's part of the reason that I had the wooden shafts put on my cart (a cheapy)... IF your are close enough to come get them or down N Carolina way for anything, YOU CAN HAVE THEM. Since I'm not a metal worker, I have no idea how heavy that type of pipe would be or how it would compare to the shafts on an actual cart... I know that the pole used on real draft horse work equipment is usually much heavier than what would be used for pleasure driving shafts. Other than that, I believe your measurements sound/look about right!

We didn't ever put shafts on "ours" (belongs to a local draft horse trainer that worked with me and a friend getting our ponies driving in 2010) - but then again that wouldn't have worked as the sled was originally built for draft horses. My 40" mares pulled it as a pair with breast collar style harness, hooked to an evener and double tree, before I was able to purchase collar and hame, field style work harness. We didn't use shafts or a tongue on this sled. By the time I had the harness we had them working well enough together that they were hooked right to the wagon. I didn't at the time, have a sled like you are talking about myself.











The truck I purchased two years ago came with a fiberglass cover over the bed (not a camper shell, but level with bed) and something in the metal support/opening mechanism broke. It was easier to remove it instead of getting it repaired. Now we are working on (I don't have the tools for it) getting the metal support work removed, adding metal braces on each side of the "front" edge of it. Then we will put some type of bolt thru it - not sure if will do just a round ring to attach to evener/double tree to with chain/hooks or some type of hitch that we could attach a pole to. Really think that this fiberglass sled can then be used to "skid" the large round bales that we get - making it easier for a pair of ponies to pull than the friction caused by the chain link "wrap" that I was using. I don't have pics of the "cover" - but will do some when we have it done.






Could also "skid" the brush and small limbs/logs we are clearing hooked directly to the ponies rather than to the forecart. Because I have some larger ponies and I only wanted to get one forecart, I bought a Hafflinger sized one and put on a pony tongue. I am thinking about checking into getting a mini sized tongue - but not sure it would work that way?? Sometimes I've regretted purchasing it, but then Ihave some larger ponies coming along now...

You might want to look at asking questions to several other venues/manufacturers. Rural Heritage, Pioneer Manufacturing in Dalton, OH(they are great to work with and they CAN answer your questions), White Horse Manufacturing in PA, Nu-Trail ...?? in IN. Also there is Fairview Country Sales in Millersburg OH that builds carts - they MIGHT be willing to tell you what type/weights of pipe they use for their mini carts and their* mini forecart* with both shafts and team pole (metal). I and J manufacturing has a website with pics and contact numbers. They might be able to help, too, but they may only go as small as Hafflingers and Fjords for their equipment and not know the sizes needed for shafts/tongue for a mini working with mini sized farm equipment.

ON Rural Heritage, there are PLENTY of knowledgeable folk who use mini equine (horse, donkey, mule) for gardening and farming applications. Articles in the print magazine and overall support for those of us that *want to use* our *mini equine* to *help work* our "farmsteads".

Also, I can get the measurements on our ez entry cart this eve - going back out to the barn shortly. My draft horse book MAY have measurements for shafts - but don't know if they go small enough for a mini,





Do you have pics of any of your horses (if nothing else, links to the "biggies") as well as your mini guy, you are willing to share? I love learning more about the draft applications that we can do with our little guys... I plan on having a 4 abreast team (the two pictured above, with the 4 yr old daughter of the one and another mare) ready to pull a mower this summer behind the forecart!!!!


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## paintponylvr (Jan 12, 2014)

Rhondaalaska said:


> I know there are some sites that sell replacement shafts for carts. Would that help you with dimensions . My cart is just a mini easy entry cart that is metal . The whole thing is about one hundred pounds. I like your idea of a sled made for minitures. I live where there is lots of snow. I just do not have the skills to make one. Hubby might but he is working long hours. I think I have 20" tires on my cart
> 
> I hope you are able to make your sled so you and your little one can have fun together.


Rhonda - google the "Otter"... Heard it works great and I plan on purchasing one eventually.


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## paintponylvr (Jan 15, 2014)

So, Bb,

I did some research. I'm still at a loss as to the meaning of this post.... Is it meant in a good way or in a humorous or incredulous way? Whichever way it was written, maybe a little support to let us know why - even if it's not necessarily PC would be good.

It sounds like you've done some building of carts yourself - including work on/with shafts, but I'm still not sure who you are (several others seem to, from post responses). I haven't finished my research, so not sure yet just what or how much. Why not give this gentleman some input?

What you have discovered and why it may OR may not work?

He's already pointed out that he's discovered that the "draft" doesn't work right in the type of harness he has for the application that he is using it for and that is why he wants to build the shafts... Sooo ... you want to say?

I am still very much into learning too, and would love to know what is in-inherently wrong with his reasoning. Also, if his mini is 35" and built like a "tank" or a "little draft horse" as he states - I wonder if the little fellow is heavier than what he stated as his weight. But then, maybe not. Is that what is wrong? The way he wants to use his little horse?

(and yes, I know that the way I used my "home-made" harness is considered wrong. Believe me, I've gotten many, many posts, pm's and individual emails pointing out all the things I've done wrong with my attempts to drive and train my own ponies - from the harness to the items we "didn't need to use to confuse the issue of training" to the carts themselves since I started publicly posting pictures in 2010. I used what I had available, that worked at the time, until I could purchase what would work best for the applications I was using it for. We constantly checked the harness, the lines and the ponies while I used this equipment - but is that really any different than using the correct equipment in the correct way?)

Thank you for your consideration...



Carriage said:


> Wow.
> 
> Aside from that one, words fail me.


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