# AMHA B HORSE



## LaVern (Feb 19, 2012)

It is hard to compete with another breed when most of your top horses are hidden. Sadly, we have never gotten to see a lot of our top 34-38 inch horses. These outstanding individuals from top farms have never been seen. Can you imagine what they could have done with those top trainers on the lead. But they couldn't throw the papers in so there they stand.

I will forever be grateful that Stacy Score of Mountain Meadows, for putting Express out for all the World to see. How much easier would it have been for her to just hide him behind the barn, like so many do.


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## Magic (Feb 19, 2012)

Prince is 34", but he's not over. Well, unless he's riled up or something, like the first time he took National Grand Champion as an over horse, but he's been measured as under many, many times too. It's tough when your horse is right on the line.

I have a Mountain Meadows mare (not related to Prince, but she did produce his very first foal ever) who is close to 38" but has two under, AMHA/AMHR parents. I showed her on a limited basis and in once class she beat out the ASPC/AMHR mares that were in her class. This was after she had had her first foal too.

I guess you're talking about AMHA registered horses that have gone over though, and the owners are still retaining their AMHA papers so don't want those horses seen? It really is too bad. I've bought quite a few of those kind of horses (sold with the AMHA papers, which I then toss, because the horse isn't truly AMHA anymore). NOT in the case with buying the mare from Stacy, Mountain Meadows-- she told me honestly how tall the mare was!

With only one exception, all of my B size horses are AMHR papered only. I raise a lot of appaloosas and they are not allowed in ASPC of course. I continually add in whatever bloodlines and types that I think will improve my horses, but I'm PROUD of my AMHR only, B size horses. Even if they are "gone over 34 inches" AMHA horses.


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## andi (Feb 19, 2012)

Ohhh, I would just LOVE to post a list of the AMHA registered B size horses that the owners have been so "proud" enough to put on display at the AMHR nationals. Some have been at the hands of our very top trainers and won "top", to "not so top" (gated), placings.


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## albahurst (Feb 19, 2012)

I can't wait to take my beautiful boy out and show him in the over class this year! Watch out


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## Mona (Feb 19, 2012)

Magic, I believe Renee was referring to "Express" (Mountain Meadows D's American Express) not "Prince".


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## LaVern (Feb 19, 2012)

Not talking about Prince, who was proven. I am talking about his sire Express- a stallion who's parents were AMHA and he went to 36.


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## Magic (Feb 19, 2012)

OH! Sorry about that. I hadn't realized that Express was over. I saw him in person one year but he wasn't being shown, he was just being transported for new owners.

Most of my AMHA horses are very close to 34", but they are also registered AMHR, so any foals they have that go over (and several will of course, being that close to the limit), well, I still have a very nice, still-registered foal that I am very proud of. In fact, it's actually really kind of nice-- then I only have the expense of registering that horse in ONE registry instead of two, lol!


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## MindyLee (Feb 19, 2012)

I took my 34" mare to a AMHR show 2 yrs ago and had her going into the 32-34" classes. The steward & witness was kinda jumping all over me cause she was clearly a B horse and when they saw her AMHA paperwork in my folder they really got mad. Well I explained that she measures right on at 34" every time I measure her at home on my driveway. So as they arrgued with me about her hight they measured her in. They both looked at me and remeasured her 2 more times. 34" ON THE DOT every time! Needless to say, I was really happy that they both were wrong and put their foot in their mouths. I said its her legs that makes her look taller!

I can say its real funny how you can see big horses in a smaller class when you know for a fact that they dont belong there.

Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!


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## Sandee (Feb 19, 2012)

It's amazing what those 34" horses can learn though. I have an OLD show gelding that is 33.75" (ah-hum). If he goes to measure all tense and stands stiff he's over 34 which he was for the first 2 years I owned him. Then my daughter came along and worked with him. When she took him to measure I saw him give a big sigh, drop his back and walla under 34! Now that I kow it's funny to watch him.


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## LaVern (Feb 19, 2012)

James are you talking about horses that show B, are over 34 1/2 and keep Amha papers? That's ----'s huh? I'm not talking about 1/2 inch (that can go either way on any different day,or there could be a screwball steward at one show, but more than 34 1/2 any age, at lots of shows. Hey send me your address.


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## Eohippus (Feb 19, 2012)

MindyLee said:


> Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!


People actually do that? It doesn't make sense to me. If the smaller doppelganger horse is the one people are seeing, liking the look and conformation of, and is winning... Why not just breed and promote that one? If the doppelganger isn't actually showing, just being presented for measuring, and the bigger one is used in pictures and that's all any one really ever sees... I guess that way makes more sense?


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## Becky (Feb 19, 2012)

> Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!


Wow! Whoever is doing that is looking at not so good repercussion from AMHA if it's found out.


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## ruffian (Feb 19, 2012)

MindyLee said:


> Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!


I guess I don't understand this . . . if the "smaller" horse is out being promoted, showing, and winning, why would someone keep a "bigger" horse and use that one for breeding.


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## Riverrose28 (Feb 19, 2012)

ruffian said:


> I guess I don't understand this . . . if the "smaller" horse is out being promoted, showing, and winning, why would someone keep a "bigger" horse and use that one for breeding.


JMO, but maybe the foals are more leggy and have a longer neck, look better. Only problem is, then they sell them to someone non-suspecting, and the horse goes over, and can't be shown anymore in AMHA. Just a thought!


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## LaVern (Feb 19, 2012)

> Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!


This one has me stumped too. Misrepresentation to say the least.


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## Riverrose28 (Feb 19, 2012)

My head is also not buried in the sand! I've seen many big name farms take mares and foals to big name shows and it is obvious the mare is over, but the taller the foal is, the more likely it is to win! Maybe it will go over, maybe not. What this says is buyer beware. I my self have bought several AMHA registered only foals and had them go over and had to pay to get them into AMHR. Only problem with that is since they are only one quarter inch to one half inch over, they won't place over the much taller, longer necked AMHR/ASPC horses. So my conclusion is they are now worthless resale wise. Some of them are my favorites. On that note, I'm too old to keep changing my breeding program, and am no longer breeding. Maybe if the economy picks up I'll get on the band wagon, but for now I'm in limbo! Just trying real hard to hang in there.


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## andi (Feb 19, 2012)

Yes, "those ones"



Just this year we had AMHA reg. horses showing in the 34-36 yearling class. I am sure those horses will be "hidden" now. We will be told they "matured early", as in fully at 12 months, and the half inch defense will be used later on. But quite frankly, if you have your horse with a professional trainer, who is "being paid to measure the horse in"(another grossly abused excuse), I don't buy into the whole, it was only a half inch crud. With all the tactics we use, between growing hair out, cutting hooves down, stretching, and a million other less scrupulous technique, if you are STILL 1/2 an inch over, you are more than likely actually an inch.

I don't think it is a lack of pride keeping the horses out of the ring, more just Greed. People don't want to lose what has been thought in the past as more "valuable" papers. I think we are seeing a change though, what with the value becoming more level across the board. Also a change is coming because people are realizing AMHA WONT TAKE THE PAPERS. You can parade them around and show them with NO FEAR of losing your papers. I am sure there are many that will blame me for just saying that out loud, but at the end of the day we all need to say what we see going on.

Right now we have horses in AMHA who were brought permanent by their owners. The owners filled out the back of the papers, stating that "on this day I have measured this horse and found it to be 35" or more. They then turned around and send their hardship form into AMHA stating that in their opinion they have a horse that qualifies for hard shipping, under 34". We can’t even get those horses out. 

Sorry for Highjacking your thread Renee


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## Riverrose28 (Feb 19, 2012)

andi said:


> Yes, "those ones"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've seen it too, and actually I think Renee will appreciate your insite.


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## LaVern (Feb 19, 2012)

Oh, James this is too much. I can't stop laughing. It is all too crazy. How on earth can we do such a disservice to these little horses? And then to promote this bunch of lies and this behavior to our youth. "The Youth is Our Future, those lucky kids.

On the other hand, maybe it is not so bad to tell lies about something as long as you are truthful and tell or show them it is a lie. ( Oh,Boy)


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## TomEHawk (Feb 19, 2012)

LaVern, I say the same thing about some of our Shetlands that we bred that were very nice and had all the ablitiy to win at the Congress, that were sold to someone from the "mini" world that wanted to start showing Shetlands. Then the ponies never seem to change ownership & some never even registered, (because I messed up and sold on a registration application). Then a few years down the road, I've seen a few of them in the AMHR B classes or a few miniatures with the exact look of our Shetland stallions or our Shetland mares.


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## LaVern (Feb 20, 2012)

Kind of makes one wonder why our beloved AMHR has to be used so poorly by both AMHA and the Shetlands. What is it that makes them all want to be part of it? Heck it is ONLY R. Wait, maybe it is all the good honest people. I like to think that there are more of them than the other. Hope so anyway.


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## mydaddysjag (Feb 20, 2012)

It seems like AMHA "people" and AMHR "people" are from separate worlds. I know horses measuring over is an issue in AMHR, but it seems like such a bigger issue in AMHA.

After seeing some extreme drama on FB in the AMHA world tonight, I don't think I would EVER want to be a part of that "scene". People who are largely involved with the registry not handling themselves in a professional way, all over the internet for everyone to see? I seriously shook my head and wondered "what is wrong with this person". Ill stay with my AMHR and AMHR/ASPC horses.... Ive never met a rude person as far as sellers, buyers, trainers, or judges in AMHR, and if anything, it seems like the pony world is even friendlier and more "family" focused.

As far as im concerned? All of my horses can measure over 34", because AMHA papers are worthless to me, I have no intentions of showing there.


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## Minimor (Feb 20, 2012)

LaVern said:


> Kind of makes one wonder why our beloved AMHR has to be used so poorly by both AMHA and the Shetlands. What is it that makes them all want to be part of it? Heck it is ONLY R. Wait, maybe it is all the good honest people. I like to think that there are more of them than the other. Hope so anyway.


How is AMHR so poorly used "by the Shetlands" (or even by AMHA for that matter?) The Shetlands have always been a part of AMHR....or perhaps it woud be more accurate to say that AMHR has always been a part of the Shetlands. The two are rather intertwined and have been since the beginning of AMHR, as much as some don't like to admit it.

I don't think AMHA uses AMHR poorly....yes, it has seemed that AMHA tends to use AMHR as a "dumping ground" for their horses that go over 34" but is that a bad thing for AMHR? AMHR gets good money to take those horses in.

Honest people....I seriously doubt that AMHR has any higher percentage of honest people than any other organization, ASPC and AMHA included. And I know there are dishonest ones in AMHR as well!


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## LaVern (Feb 20, 2012)

I was just commenting on the two instances that were posted by James and expony. This is what I picked up from them.

Some AMHA exhibitors use us to promote their AMHA B horses and keep short papers.

Some ASPC exhibtors use us to promote their short Shetlands.

But, I realize that they-(ASPC exhibitors) don't really have another place to show them(short Shetlands). Their main show does not even want them. You would think that they would be crawling all over the place to get them to come to Congress and make lots of classes for them, but heck dump them over and use AMHR.)


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## Tremor (Feb 20, 2012)

I have to say that I feel really out of the loop while reading this thread. This thread has left me scratching my head at multiple statements.


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## Lewella (Feb 20, 2012)

LaVern said:


> Their main show does not even want them. You would think that they would be crawling all over the place to get them to come to Congress and make lots of classes for them, but heck dump them over and use AMHR.)


We've been trying Renee! We added Senior classes at Congress in the Classic Division last year for 38" and under ponies.


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## ruffian (Feb 20, 2012)

mydaddysjag said:


> It seems like AMHA "people" and AMHR "people" are from separate worlds. I know horses measuring over is an issue in AMHR, but it seems like such a bigger issue in AMHA.
> 
> After seeing some extreme drama on FB in the AMHA world tonight, I don't think I would EVER want to be a part of that "scene". People who are largely involved with the registry not handling themselves in a professional way, all over the internet for everyone to see? I seriously shook my head and wondered "what is wrong with this person". Ill stay with my AMHR and AMHR/ASPC horses.... Ive never met a rude person as far as sellers, buyers, trainers, or judges in AMHR, and if anything, it seems like the pony world is even friendlier and more "family" focused.
> 
> As far as im concerned? All of my horses can measure over 34", because AMHA papers are worthless to me, I have no intentions of showing there.


As an owner of BOTH AMHA and AMHR and ASPC horses, I don't think I'm from different worlds. Of course I may be . . .





There are rude people everywhere. There are friendly, fantastic, helpful everywhere. If the drama about AMHA is in regards to a single individual doing the bashing, it's freedom of speech, and OK maybe not the best place to do it, but that's facebook for ya. It's easy to let lose on a keyboard without recognizing that the world is watching and remembering.

Are there AMHA horse that are over 34"? Yes. Are there AMHR horses over 38? Yes. Until there is a ruling (and I am NOT recommending it) that EVERY horse is examined at maturity by a team of 10 people from 10 different states then there are going to be horses that go over in breeding herds. I personally have a beautiful National champion/National Top Ten gelding that on paper is out of two 34" horses. Hmmm, he's 36, but I certainly don't mind.

It's stated that AMHR has ALWAYS been part of ASPC. Not entirely true. The little ponies were there, but the registry wasn't. And not all minis are Shetlands, nor are all Shetlands Minis. Just ain't so.

I don't understand the comment "no place to show the little ponies" Since I've never shown ASPC I can't comment, but as ASPC doesn't have a "minimum" size, then how is there is no place to show them? If the answer is "they can't beat the bigger ponies", then the same can be true for the miniature show ring.

I like both AMHA and AMHR. I have had good luck in showing in both registries. I have nothing but respect for the ladies in the office and the work they do.

Go Miniature Horses!!!


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## MiniGaits Farm (Feb 20, 2012)

mydaddysjag said:


> It seems like AMHA "people" and AMHR "people" are from separate worlds. I know horses measuring over is an issue in AMHR, but it seems like such a bigger issue in AMHA.
> 
> After seeing some extreme drama on FB in the AMHA world tonight, I don't think I would EVER want to be a part of that "scene". People who are largely involved with the registry not handling themselves in a professional way, all over the internet for everyone to see? I seriously shook my head and wondered "what is wrong with this person". Ill stay with my AMHR and AMHR/ASPC horses.... Ive never met a rude person as far as sellers, buyers, trainers, or judges in AMHR, and if anything, it seems like the pony world is even friendlier and more "family" focused.
> 
> As far as im concerned? All of my horses can measure over 34", because AMHA papers are worthless to me, I have no intentions of showing there.


This is pretty extreme to me. It is not fair at all to judge all members of an association by the way a few people acted on Facebook.


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## Miniequine (Feb 20, 2012)

mydaddysjag said:


> It seems like AMHA "people" and AMHR "people" are from separate worlds. I know horses measuring over is an issue in AMHR, but it seems like such a bigger issue in AMHA.
> 
> After seeing some extreme drama on FB in the AMHA world tonight, I don't think I would EVER want to be a part of that "scene". People who are largely involved with the registry not handling themselves in a professional way, all over the internet for everyone to see? I seriously shook my head and wondered "what is wrong with this person". Ill stay with my AMHR and AMHR/ASPC horses.... Ive never met a rude person as far as sellers, buyers, trainers, or judges in AMHR, and if anything, it seems like the pony world is even friendlier and more "family" focused.
> 
> As far as im concerned? All of my horses can measure over 34", because AMHA papers are worthless to me, I have no intentions of showing there.



I'm sorry,,,, I NEVER post on these threads... but...._*Are you kidding me? It was ONE person. ONE. That person does NOT represent AMHA or any member.. in ANY way.*_

and NO, I am not defending AMHA.... *I am defending ME and my AMHA registered animals*,, which BTW are ALL also registered AMHR. Both living in the SAME world...

and HAPPILY showing in BOTH registries.

Not that this has ANYTHING what so ever to do with the OP.


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## JMS Miniatures (Feb 20, 2012)

Tremor said:


> I have to say that I feel really out of the loop while reading this thread. This thread has left me scratching my head at multiple statements.


This whole topic doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

And to say that AMHR is the dumping ground by both AMHA and ASPC is a lil bit too much IMO. If that was the case why would people even bother spend their money on memberships, registrations, and take them out and show and promote them as a AMHR horse. I think its nice that AMHR welcomes those that are disowned by their own registeries, and I'm not talking about ASPC. Also nothing is stopping the AMHR/ASPC ponies go and show at Congress, some do quite well. I think if they do add a 38" and under division it would help the show grow if people actually attend. Its the breeders decision how small or large they want their horses to be, if people choose to be dishonest then they have to live with that but I think its important to bring its attention to the registeries and not purchase any minis from those breeders.


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## valshingle (Feb 20, 2012)

mydaddysjag said:


> It seems like AMHA "people" and AMHR "people" are from separate worlds. I know horses measuring over is an issue in AMHR, but it seems like such a bigger issue in AMHA.
> 
> After seeing some extreme drama on FB in the AMHA world tonight, I don't think I would EVER want to be a part of that "scene". People who are largely involved with the registry not handling themselves in a professional way, all over the internet for everyone to see? I seriously shook my head and wondered "what is wrong with this person". Ill stay with my AMHR and AMHR/ASPC horses.... Ive never met a rude person as far as sellers, buyers, trainers, or judges in AMHR, and if anything, it seems like the pony world is even friendlier and more "family" focused.
> 
> As far as im concerned? All of my horses can measure over 34", because AMHA papers are worthless to me, I have no intentions of showing there.


I think I know what you are referring to and that person is not exclusively AMHA. If it's who I think it is, they are a professional that has worked with AMHA, AMHR, and ASPC horses and still does.


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## mydaddysjag (Feb 20, 2012)

I do truely apologize, Re reading what I posted, I didn't come off the way that I wanted to, and I am sorry. To me, AMHA has always seemed like the more upscale elite organization, top dollar horses, while AMHR/ASPC was the association with more amateurs, and youths showing, and the average horse owner could afford a horse that could be pretty competitive at the breed shows. Im honestly not super involved in AMHA, so I guess I stuck my foot in my mouth. I do apologize that I generalized after seeing a "top dog" AMHA person making remarks insinuating that they made the association what it is, or that they could say what they want to/about people because of where their reputation in the AMHA world. Again, not saying anything bad about the amha world, but to me, it seems like the registrys are kind of from different worlds. Not in regards to one having people who are better than the other, but in regards to the type of horses shown at their shows, and the fact that not a lot of people show both AMHA and AMHR. Atleast in my area, there are those that show AMHA, and those that show AMHR, no one in my area shows both. Thats what I mean by different worlds.

I didnt mean to offend anyone, and I DO own an AMHA/AMHR horse, along with AMHR horses, and a AMHR/ASPC horse. Im not a "pony person". Im not against the registry, I just prefer B horses, and the more relaxed atmosphere I have seen at the AMHR shows. I guess I just meant that I wouldnt stoop to the level that some people do to get horses to measure into a registry they aren't qualified for, or lie just to retain papers to the more "prestigious" registry. My AMHR papers to me are more "prestigeous" to me because thats where I prefer showing, as I have just always felt its a more relaxed environment. I feel that more people do fib about heights with AMHA horses, simply because there is no division for B sized horses in AMHA.

I probably worded this all wrong again, but I promise, I didnt intend to insult anyone.


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## ohmt (Feb 20, 2012)

No, you did great mydaddysjag. I understood what you meant the first time around, even if it wasn't worded well.


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## disneyhorse (Feb 20, 2012)

Congress HAS offered "under 38 inch" classes but people prefer to show that size at AMHR Nationals.


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## Minimor (Feb 20, 2012)

I think some of the problem with the 38" & under class at Congress was that a good many of the ponies just didn't fit. People had initially wanted it to be 39" & under and if it had been there probably would have been more entries. Remember--when showing at Congress the ponies get measured at the top of the withers. That being the case, even many that measure in for AMHR Nationals at 38" or just under at the last mane hair do NOT measure in at 38" when measured to the top of the wither. Many of them may fit in at 39", but not 38".

As for Mary Lou's post about complaints about pony people being too opinionated on this Mini board...I do have to wonder if anyone considers me a pony person? I admit to being opinionated, and I do have ponies...but I have to point out, just in case, that I still have almost three times as many Minis as I do ponies. I think that makes me as much a Mini person as anyone else on here. I will also point out that there is nothing I have posted on here, ever, in defense of ponies that I wouldn't have posted even if I didn't have any ponies. I could see the pony point of view even when I had only Minis and I would find the Shetland-bashing by some to be offensive even if I didn't own a single pony. Seriously--does one have to be a visible minority to be offended by racist comments against that visible minority group?? Certainly not.


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## Tremor (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm just going to shoot my own two cents in here.

There is NO reason why Shetland pony folks cannot be a part in this discussion and they should be be heard as well. This is a discussion that deals with the ASPC and AMHR. Quite a few of these folks have raised, trained, or bred minis.

I find it VERY absurd that people are emailing Mary Lou about these people. They have a place in this forum and this discussion. If you don't like what they have to say then move on or don't read their posts. Its as simple as that.

EDIT: This may not be my fight but I HATE it when people are silenced.


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 21, 2012)

Tremor said:


> If you don't like what they have to say then move on or don't read their posts. Its as simple as that.



I have no idea who emailed ML or what anyone said, but I think it's important to remember that we enjoy this board for FREE. For us, it's a place to come for education, opinions, advice and our fix of the new foals. For ML, this is a business and she must run it as such. If this forum, not the pony one, is for mini owners/lovers/enthusiasts and they are being offended to feeling like they need "move on" as you put it, well that's not good for ML's business. I have no stats to back this up, but just a cursury look at the ads at the top of this forum looks a lot like "mini" money to me. ML has provided, yet another FREE place, for pony discussions.

Please note: This is my opinion only and a guess. I have no idea how ML actually percieves this.


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## TomEHawk (Feb 21, 2012)

In no way did I mean to bash AMHA or AMHR, nor anybody inpaticular. I was only comenting about a few mini breeders that have purchased Shetlands and used them in their breeding programs without hardshipping and the one that have bought the Shetlands, havn't hardshipped them and are showing them as minis under different names & parentages. This is no means a bash at either AMHA or AMHR registries or at the AMHA/AMHR breeders as a whole. We started showing and breeding minis and would still be doing so if we hadn't lost our stallion and sold a good share of our mares. And I had no idea that someone is on Facebook bashing AMHA, AMHR or ASPC untill reading it on here. If I offended anybody by my post, that was not my intent. If I was meaning to offend someone, I don't beat around the bush, I will state it openly.


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## Marsha Cassada (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm not really involved in showing, and do not breed, so have no strong opinions on the registries. I pay my dues to both, as that is my way of helping to support miniature horses.

I have to say the 35" horses are my favorites!! They are small enough for me to handle and big enough to move out and have some fun in harness.

I have participated in both AMHA and AMHR shows and had wonderful experiences in both!

I have heard snobbish AMHA folk and snobbish AMHR folk over the years, which was somewhat bewildering at first. But it's natural to champion one's favorites when one is passionate and competitive, and those of us who are not soon learn to "consider the source".


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## chandab (Feb 21, 2012)

I don't know if there is an article out there as to how to get started, but for me, I chose the taller minis, mostly B-size, as I'm nearly 6' tall, and really didn't want to bend over far enough to reach the really little guys. My first was A/R registered and supposed to mature 33" or so, he's 36" tall. And, I have a few others that have matured taller than their parents; much be something in the water here, as the only ones that haven't grown significantly after moving here are the three that I bought already mature.






I now have 12 minis; the first 6 or so that I purchased all matured well into B-size (35-38"), then along came a tiny 31" stallion that stole my heart and I now have 3 minis under 34" (his daughter out of one of my B mares, and a new mare I bought because of him). While I still prefer the taller minis, I do love the little guys. Because of my preference for the taller minis, and my tight budget, I have pretty much all AMHR registered horses (only 2 double registered, as the others outgrew their A papers) and only keep up with AMHR (was an AMHA member til my pocketbook got to tight).


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## Riverrose28 (Feb 21, 2012)

I haven't seen an article written up that includes both registries, although many years ago I wrote something about the miniature horse, and it's history for a demo that I did for 4-H. Both registries have brochures that can be informative, I used to carry around both types and hand them out at local events, but now I just have the AMHR one that I carry in my trailer for promotional purposes. I think there was a book on miniature horses written some time ago, so if anyone has a copy they could use it for reference. Seems there are several talented writers that visit the forum maybe someone will volunteer to write something.


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## Margo_C-T (Feb 21, 2012)

When I 'got into' minis(after nearly 40 years involved in 'big' horses) in 1984, there WAS NO B division in AMHR; they did not institute that until several years later. So, of course, I had AMHAs...and I took pains to choose those to show that were GENUINELY 34" or less--though way back then, Foundation Oversize was in effect, and I bought one mare who fit there, and moved another into that division who came to me w/ 'regular' AMHA papers, but did measure nearly 35"...some of us do believe that rules are to be followed,and act accordingly.

At the time, I felt that instituting the AMHR B division was largely a financial move, to increase income...and honestly, that is still my opinion about their original reason. That said, I have come to believe that it became 'worth' more than just increasing income...and for myself, for driving, I have come to prefer a nearer-38" horse. I am not tiny, and like to plesure drive w/ driving clubs and the like, so 'more power' is helpful. I still have and love, several of my 34" and under horses, some of which I bred and/or trained, and/or showed; the very first mini mare I chose to buy was a 'Sooner States' mare who is EXACTLY and honest 34", who is still with me at 29 1/2, and produced excellent offspring---she did well by me, and I intend to do well by her until she is gone. However, my one B sized is an unregistered, very 'UK Shetland' looking, gelding. I did not need registration for what I want him for; his driving training and abilities are his 'ticket' to desirability, IMO.

For loving on, and general 'easy to have around-ness', I hope to never be without at least one 'A" mini. For serious driving of a single horse, give me a larger 'B' mini...there are certainly good niches for both!

Both registries have their pluses and minuses, IMO, but should be supported IF you are actively involved. I no longer have much if any desire to breed show(unless it's the occasional Halter Obst. or Driven Obstacle w/ my 34" AMHA Champion, now 18 YO, homebred/trained gelding, who happens to be out of the above-described mare)...been there, done that, got my fill of it...but am still hopeful that each will continue to grow but IMPROVE as they go.

Margo


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## Mona (Feb 21, 2012)

I agree 1000% with this very brief statement you made Margo...



> Both registries have their pluses and minuses, IMO, but should be supported IF you are actively involved.


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## Little Hooves (Feb 22, 2012)

MindyLee said:


> Also another thing I really hate! When someone says a certin horse is so-n-so and measures small. Shows them & permotes them and is very very well known with high $ foals. When really its a different horse that is the same color in the public eye when the real horse is home and is bigger and hidding behind the barn. The bigger horse is breeding the mares so the DNA matchs BUT the public sees the wrong horse promoted as the known horse because hes smaller!


You're talking about a RINGER! Yeah, I have a good suggestion that I'd like to see a registry adopt. It would be costly up front, though, so it might never happen - but it would certainly put a stop to this ringer in the show "bid'ness."

It's called microchipping.


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## maestoso (May 15, 2012)

Interestingly enough, we all have the choice of weather we show in either or both registries. The solution is easy. If you don't like what AMHA is doing, stop supporting them by registering your horses, showing at their shows, and paying your membership fees. The same could be said for AMHR. To do any of those things and then to come on this forum and gripe is completely hypocritical. And yes, it is simply griping. While these posts include genuine and legitimate concerns, to find them you have to dig through the whining, sarcasm, and ridiculous passive aggressive tactics. Why not submit a rule change, a grievance, tactfully share your concern at a meeting, or with your area director? There are a million avenues in which to share concerns. I'll be the first to acknowledge that sometimes change is tough especially with so many "good ole boys" running the show. But doing it right is no more a waste of your time than posting it here, where the only outcome is to rile people up and blow things out of proportion, and then what? It stops as quickly as it started because a more interesting thread is now available to start a new round of whining and complaining.

I'm thankful for both AMHR and AMHA. I prefer each for different reasons and I believe that each has different but an equal amount of problems.

I forget who said it, but I too believe that there are far more good, honest, and genuine people in the registries then not. The reason why we sometimes forget this is because they are the least likely to speak up. More often we are hearing from the whiners and complainers that do nothing to encourage change or progress. It's kind of like those phone surveys. I hate when that data is taken seriously. Angry people are far more likely to complete a survey than a happy and content customer. Because of this we are missing a whole set of data that would completely change the results. Anyway, I'm gonna jet to prepare for the AMHA show I'll be attending this weekend. I couldn't be more excited about enjoying good company and pretty horses, because that's why I do this.


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