# Working ponies



## paintponylvr (Jan 15, 2012)

Well, I wanted to see if they could do it - so I hooked the pair of driving ponies (40 & 41 at the withers) up. Then I put the hay bale on the drag (wrapped the bale w/ chainlink and "v'd" the holding ropes back to the board to hitch to. Then hooked the mares up to it.

They did get it started - but it was work! We got it turned around and headed towards the gate to the paddock I wanted to put it in. Stopped to open gate and straighten out the bale, then started again - thru the gate to the little dip/rise - where it hung up and they couldn't move it any further. No problem. I backed them up and unhitched.

We hooked to a 2nd bale of hay, but they couldnt' budge that one at all. Not sure if it was just too heavy or if they were tired from the extreme effort of moving the first one. OR could have been a combination of both.

To continue to move hay, I will need to wait until I have another set of harness/collars and can do a 3 abreast. I'm fairly certain that it won't be a problem with 3... The pair did a great job and proved that it could be done. I also learned that we need a ltitle more work on communication for us to have an easier drive... but they were awesome.

Vicki took pics for us.




And you should be able to see more pics here... https://picasaweb.google.com/purplepaintpony/BellBitShetlandMarePair#


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## susanne (Jan 15, 2012)

How much do those bales weigh? Obviously from your photo they're not 75 lb rectangular bales like we use!


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 17, 2012)

Had you thought of a unicorn hitch instead of three abreast??

I think it might be better use of power.


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## Katiean (Jan 17, 2012)

This is awesome. When I first read this I was thinking a 100# 3 twine bale. I was thinking "why couldn't they move it?". Then I looked at the pictures. Those mares worked hard.


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## paintponylvr (Jan 17, 2012)

susanne said:


> How much do those bales weigh? Obviously from your photo they're not 75 lb rectangular bales like we use!







No, they aren't 75 or 100 lb bales. I'm not sure exactly. These are smaller than ones that we've gotten in past years from same supplier, but larger than last years. What made them heavier, too, was having 3 days of sprinkling but steady rain before attempting to move them... Want to say they were between 550 & 650 before rain... I could easily move them by myself (rolling) as long as not uphill. Not so easy once "damp".

It never seems to fail - if I bring in a load and don't have them put in the individual pastures/paddocks (he brings them 5 at a time on a dump truck), it rains. But I've had some serious waste this year form having too many out at one time... I've had as many as 10 bales "stored" in a pasture...


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## paintponylvr (Jan 17, 2012)

Katien think my response above helped answer your question... LOL. Yes, they did work hard. I was very happy with them!

Jane - I really hadn't thought about it. I've always been told that with a "proper" unicorn hitch that the horse in front isn't "in draft". I know that 3 abreast is common and done a lot with "real" farm horses (as well as other hitches with them out front, so probably could be done) as well as four abreast. Putting a unicorn out in front means different line configuration as well as a complete 2nd set of lines - so was just going to do the 3 abreast as that's the same two lines w/ 2 lines interconnecting bits on the middle to each side horse.

When I watched the 8 horse hitch at the plow days last year (percherons), the ones in front, (4) really didn't seem to be pulling and I wondered what the purpose was - other than to act as encouragement? I'm still learning all of this - trust me!!


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## Jetiki (Jan 18, 2012)

I'd roll it up on a piece of plywood attached to a double tree. You may have had "too much friction" with the ground and the chainlink. Make like a skid to move them around on with less ground friction, with screw eyes for rope anchor points to hold your cargo. I find single and double trees at flea markets or you make one I am sure there are plans out there on the internet.

karen


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## MajorClementine (Jan 23, 2012)

Jetiki said:


> I'd roll it up on a piece of plywood attached to a double tree. You may have had "too much friction" with the ground and the chainlink. Make like a skid to move them around on with less ground friction, with screw eyes for rope anchor points to hold your cargo. I find single and double trees at flea markets or you make one I am sure there are plans out there on the internet.
> 
> karen


I agree. Friction was your only enemy here. Those girls could move that bale slick if you could roll it onto some type of skid. I love your working girls!


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## paintponylvr (Jan 24, 2012)

This is too funny! We'd already reached the same conclusion about a "skid" to have less friction... Haven't set one up yet.

I did finally order a custom made 3 abreast evener sized for my 40 - 45" ponies (also a 4 abreast evener). I have made my own single trees w/o problems, but the ones Ive purchased from auctions have broken when they've had any amount of pressure (at the worst times, too) applied - creating mega problems. Also, with making my own - getting the measurements right and properly matched - well that just wasn't my "forte" - and even when the mares apparently pulling side by side and evenly - the load never did get lined up properly. I even made one set of doubletree with single trees out of the same materials w/ the same measurements (so I thought) - but still had something out of whack. I used it and will still use it, but the steel ones made for je by Pioneer - just nicer, better and measurement headaches relieved. I can make harness, halters, saddle pads, foal blankets and some other stuff; build sheds and barns, but the single trees & double tree - that just wasn't working for me. I can't even imagine trying to get measurements balanced for the 4 abreast!




O, happy dance!



We (Vicki - my pony driving freind - & I) will be leaving for OH on Friday - going to Millersburg. We will be picking up the eveners & 2 forecarts. I went with the Pioneer made ones - after looking at several locally made (2 of which were VERY unbalanced by different makers and not guaranteed nor repairable by the maker) ones and others from other companies and just wasn't happy with what I was seeing, how they looked or how they "rode" for either pony or driver when in use. Pioneer just has a higher quality set up than what I was finding. I've been told that White Horse (out of PA) also makes the "good" type of Forecart, but when I talked to a dealer/rep, he said that no we couldn't get them sized for a pony as small as ours (smallest size was meant for 14 hh or better "Haffies"). Vicki is getting the pony sized one with pony sized shafts and the pony sized tongue/neck yoke for a pair; and I'm getting the Hafflinger sized one w/ Hafflinger shafts (for a larger pony - 12.1 and probably mature around 13 hh - that we are training now) and small pony sized tongue/neckyoke for my 40 - 45" shetlands. We can hook it up with the double tree set up, the 3 abreast and the 4 abreast (on either size forecart).

Our harness arrived today (Vicki's first set & my 2nd). Vicki's is "plain" betathane and mine will match my other pair set (shiny bio & farm spots). I also got a larger collar for my 45" stallion.

I couldn't figure out why my bill (harness) was less then I'd originally figured on - then realized I had forgotten to measure the larger pony and order his single farm style harness -



. Will be doing the measurements tomorrow and calling them. They might be able to get it done in time for us to pick up the harness (not far from Pioneer). Plan on visiting a couple of other carriage shops, too.

Looking at several cart options - trying to make up my mind what direction we are actually going with our ponies - aiming towards the breed ring but really can't justify a Jerald cart now (tho I'm looking at a used one out of TX). May only make a couple of shows - but my ponies move differently than what's doing well and seems to be expected in the Shetland rings - and I want mine moving more the way they do (lower, extended heads when traveling naturally; long, stretchy leg movement - no above level trotting w/ my shetlands...) naturally. I understand that as we get past the green stage and they are getting collected/doing driven dressage that they will travel higher both in front and behind, but... My 45" stallion was trained by a saddlebred and Hackney pony trainer and he tried for months to get him to move "properly" - changing him from barefoot to shod w/ longer hooves, pads etc. Used "chains" and "bungies" and the trainer was FRUSTRATED and the pony was MISERABLE - he just doesn't move that way! Most of the ponies I've purchased and bred for don't move that way... Another option - a lower cost wooden "spring" cart - with interchangeable wooden wheels and heavier, no air/no flat wheels. Will see how it sits, sorta see how it pulls (w/ human since won't have a pony with us)... It would work in local, maybe regional shows - Congress not so much?? - ALSO out on the trails - where we will be spending most of our time..

My sulky cart will be going with us to get repaired/refurbished. I'm ready to have it "back" already - miss driving with it!


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## bluebird (Jan 25, 2012)

Please post pictures of your new carts...love to see them!


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## susanne (Jan 25, 2012)

Three abreast -- you have yourself a troika!

(Going OT here...Keith and I used to have a jazz trio named Troika, as all members were equals rather than "two musicians and a drummer.")


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## paintponylvr (Feb 5, 2012)

Here is one pic with a link to others.

Trip went well - other than being FREEZING to us "warm bloods" down here now in NC. And I seem to have brought the cold back with me!




This is the Hafflinger sized Forecart. It is work for them to pull out in the sand, but they will "leg up" w/o a problem. I took them to the Moss Foundation 2x this weekend (Friday and Saturday) - and it was great. In comparison to a "simple" ez entry cart - it's like being in a VERY COMFY 4x4 rig... They walked, jogged, trotted, cantered up and down hill, thru sand, between trees and over downed limbs for roughly an hour each day. On Friday, they decided they liked the pond we were near so much that I thought that we were going to go swimming, LOL, however they refused to drink. I suppose that needs to be learned yet. The brake (s) - hydraulic - worked well once the stop cock (valve?) between the wheels in the floor of the cart. I have to learn how to use the brake effectively - I did end up stopping them and a couple of times when I only meant to slow the cart down, I brought it almost to a stop - really upsetting them. Then when I eased up on the brake they wanted to "take off" - or at least it felt that way for a minute until they settled, LOL.

I've been going like crazy since got back - haven't had a chance to fit the rest of the harness or get all the parts of the two different eveners (3 & 4 abreast) put together. Once I have that done I will hook Koalah in a 3 abreast formation with Bell and Bit... on the forecart.

Since starting to drive these girls as a pair - with the forecart, I was able to get them to "drive together" and it was pretty wonderful. They responded well, moving more often in sync and pulling evenly. I was able to get more definite changes of speed (both days) and when the drive yesterday was over, I was "flying".

Here's the link to their album w/ pics of both Vicki and I playing with them with the Forecart. Forecart +

I chose the Hafflinger size as that will allow me to drive our current two larger ponies once they are trained. Vicki got the pony size and currently has the shafts on it for single pony driving. We will be hooking her pony into that tomorrow/Tuesday... and see how that goes, too.

O, and I had a fiberglass top on the back of the truck in some of the photos (flat). We've removed it and I'm checking into turning it into a drag/skid to use under these big hay bales...

Here is one pic with a link to others.

Trip went well - other than being FREEZING to us "warm bloods" down here now in NC. And I seem to have brought the cold back with me!




This is the Hafflinger sized Forecart. It is work for them to pull out in the sand, but they will "leg up" w/o a problem. I took them to the Moss Foundation 2x this weekend (Friday and Saturday) - and it was great. In comparison to a "simple" ez entry cart - it's like being in a VERY COMFY 4x4 rig... They walked, jogged, trotted, cantered up and down hill, thru sand, between trees and over downed limbs for roughly an hour each day. On Friday, they decided they liked the pond we were near so much that I thought that we were going to go swimming, LOL, however they refused to drink. I suppose that needs to be learned yet. The brake (s) - hydraulic - worked well once the stop cock (valve?) between the wheels in the floor of the cart. I have to learn how to use the brake effectively - I did end up stopping them and a couple of times when I only meant to slow the cart down, I brought it almost to a stop - really upsetting them. Then when I eased up on the brake they wanted to "take off" - or at least it felt that way for a minute until they settled, LOL.

I've been going like crazy since got back - haven't had a chance to fit the rest of the harness or get all the parts of the two different eveners (3 & 4 abreast) put together. Once I have that done I will hook Koalah in a 3 abreast formation with Bell and Bit... on the forecart.

Since starting to drive these girls as a pair - with the forecart, I was able to get them to "drive together" and it was pretty wonderful. They responded well, moving more often in sync and pulling evenly. I was able to get more definite changes of speed (both days) and when the drive yesterday was over, I was "flying".

Here's the link to their album w/ pics of both Vicki and I playing with them with the Forecart. Forecart +

I chose the Hafflinger size as that will allow me to drive our current two larger ponies once they are trained. Vicki got the pony size and currently has the shafts on it for single pony driving. We will be hooking her pony into that tomorrow/Tuesday... and see how that goes, too.

O, and I had a fiberglass top on the back of the truck in some of the photos (flat). We've removed it and I'm checking into turning it into a drag/skid to use under these big hay bales...


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## paintponylvr (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm not sure what happened to cause the double post (in one!). Sorry.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 6, 2012)

paintponylvr said:


> Jane - I really hadn't thought about it. I've always been told that with a "proper" unicorn hitch that the horse in front isn't "in draft". I know that 3 abreast is common and done a lot with "real" farm horses (as well as other hitches with them out front, so probably could be done) as well as four abreast. Putting a unicorn out in front means different line configuration as well as a complete 2nd set of lines - so was just going to do the 3 abreast as that's the same two lines w/ 2 lines interconnecting bits on the middle to each side horse.


I agree. In a unicorn hitch the leader should be out of draft just as in a tandem except when extra power is needed going up a hill. Of course the reason for this is because if the leader is in draft through a turn he or she will pull the pole into the turn prematurely, causing the cart to hit whatever is on the inside, but I still see no reason to use this arrangement instead of the much more practical 3-abreast for the type of work you're doing as you're not concerned about your three girls fitting through a gate or down a narrow city street side-by-side.



paintponylvr said:


> When I watched the 8 horse hitch at the plow days last year (percherons), the ones in front, (4) really didn't seem to be pulling and I wondered what the purpose was - other than to act as encouragement? I'm still learning all of this - trust me!!


If the leaders are pulling on easy footing, they will make the wheelers' job difficult and can actually pull the carriage up onto the wheelers' hocks in a very dangerous situation. Those extra hitches of horses are there to help out when the going gets tough as I understand it, so when the wheelers start having trouble you let out the reins a little and let the swing and lead teams come into play. Once you're back on the flat or out of deep footing (as of course you are during an arena exhibition) they come back out of draft. Most the eight-ups I've seen were more to show off the driver's skill than because eight horses were needed!

I hope you'll post pictures of the pony-sized forecart, Paula. I'm interested to see how much smaller it is.



paintponylvr said:


> My 45" stallion was trained by a saddlebred and Hackney pony trainer and he tried for months to get him to move "properly" - changing him from barefoot to shod w/ longer hooves, pads etc. Used "chains" and "bungies" and the trainer was FRUSTRATED and the pony was MISERABLE - he just doesn't move that way!


Trainers like this make me furious!






You cannot give a horse what he doesn't have through action devices...only enhance a natural tendency. What an idiot!



susanne said:


> Three abreast -- you have yourself a troika!


I've been having this debate with another carriage driver- a Troika is a very specific Russian hitch with the middle horse traveling straight under an arch called a "duga" at a trot and the two outlying horses traveling at a canter with their heads turned to the outside. http://www.horses.ru...main_troika.htm Historically veeeery different from a 3-abreast although I notice most the current online videos of this hitch have all three horses traveling straight and at the same gait, and thus are not at all different. (Probably much better for the two outside horses- I did find notes that they used to wear out in several years at the most.



)

Here's a video of a proper Troika though. Wish I knew what the little girl was singing about!



I studied this hitch when I was showing model horses as I wanted to make one in micro mini scale (you know, the smaller-than-Stablemate-size models Creata used to produce and Breyer now owns?) but never got around to it and got out of the hobby to show minis.





Leia


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## paintponylvr (Feb 6, 2012)

hmm- now my multi-quote didn't work. Yeah!

So here are some more pics of "my girls" - Bell and Bit.










Here is a pic - 6 up hitch of Percherons That is a rope pulley system that they are hitched with... Here is a link to single trees, double trees, eveners ( 3 or more horses abreast) and rope pulley systems - Pioneer

Another 6 horse hitch . I believe all of these horses are working and after their owner "quit them" - all 6 were heavily sweated - equally. And it was't from being upset or fractious.


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