# European driving VS USA driving



## Ouburgia (Mar 16, 2010)

I see that there is a lot of differance between driving the way I am used to, and the way you overseas are used to. I wonder why these differances are there...

For example:

We mostly drive on a liverpool or other shank bit.

You mostly drive on a half cheeck bit.

We mostly drive with breeching

You mostly don't

You mostly drive with a side or over check.

We only use an overcheck in some show/performance classes with the Hackney's or the Showdriving horses. It's not really a check, but it lookes like it.

Martingale (??) is not used at all over here.

I do not intend to start a discussion about what is good and what it bad.

I only wonder why there is a whole different way of driving in 2 continents


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## Farina (Mar 16, 2010)

I think the difference is that there are totaly different tests. You don't have pleasure driving or country pleasure in Europe. Here you only will find dressage driving, cones and marathon. There isn't such thing in AMHA or AMHR BUT there are CDE's in the US too.

I take different equipment for dressage and cones than for marathon. If I would have to drive a pleasure class I probably would use some sort of that equipment too.

I think that the more classes are offered fit more horses with their skills than CDE's. It is a shame that we don't have the versatility of classes in Europe.

I think it is the attitude: In europe e person thinks: I have to get a horse that fits for CDE and I have to buy a new one. In the US they think (so I think that they think... you know...) my horse does this nice, I would like to compete this to other horses and we gonna call this for example pleasure driving class.


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## Ouburgia (Mar 16, 2010)

To understand youre post more: Could you explain what CDE means?


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## Sandee (Mar 16, 2010)

Ouburgia said:


> To understand youre post more: Could you explain what CDE means?


CDE -Combined Driving Event take a look at this site for long explanation american driving society


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## krissy3 (Mar 16, 2010)

I am an American now living in Europe. I am not going to get into a debate over this .... but what I see in general is that the laws are a lot more strict here in Europe in favor of the animal. (generalizing) There are a lot of things forbidden here because it is thought of as being cruel to the horse, that is not the case in the US. You can pretty much do what ever you want with your horse in the US without too many people pestering you. These "laws" cover all areas,ere from razoring , clipping,to how you keep your horse and how large of a turnout you have . What i find very interesting , and very cool , is that you are NOT allowed to own a horse without proper turnout. Your local vet or "gemeinde" (town hall people) will turn you in if you are not providing daily turnout for your horses here in Switzerland, and believe me they will rat on you.. I believe next year we will have to pay yearly taxes on our horses with the city hall, sort of like licencing a dog, I think it will be a hundred CHF per horse. I hope this keeps the non serious people from owning horses. I had to ask my vet if i could have another horse on my property. Very different approach to horse keeping then the US , not better , just different.


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## Ouburgia (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks Sandee.

I recently bought a halfcheeck bit myself, for lunging, and I like it more than the snaffle bit i used.

We do have showcompetion which look a bit like pleasure or country driving (refering to my time when I was a groom to small size Hackney's. But those horses are also driven on a liverpool. Before I got "into" miniatures, I never saw a horse with a martingale (under saddle yes, but driven, no..)

I kinda like the way horse owners are controlled in Switserland krissy, but on the other side, here in Holland, I know a few riding facilities who can close their doors if they are gonne rule thing that way over here.

But is the "american" tack (no breeching, side/overcheck, martingale, halfcheeck) really for pleasure/country driving than? because, here on this forum, I see the most people ride with that kind of tack, even if the are not competing.


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## susanne (Mar 16, 2010)

What you are describing as American driving is actually breed show driving. ADS carriage style driving, which includes CDE and pleasure shows, is pretty much like European and even more like British driving. In the past here on LB, you'd see more photos of breed shows, but ADS style driving is rapidly gaining popularity amongst mini/VSE owners.

In ADS, breeching (or brakes) are required. Checks are forbidden except at training level.

In AMHR and AMHA, leverage bits are not allowed; in ADS, they are preferred.

Take a look at photos of Leia and Myrna (Rhinestone), for example, and you'll see leverage bits, breeching and a definite absence of checks. Some people (Leia, MiloMinis, ClickMini, Whitemans, etc.) do both, while others are vehemently one school or the other.

Breed show driving involves walking, trotting and a few steps of backing in an indoor arena, so one can get by without breeching. Judging is not based upon traditional driving styles or techniques, but rather on the horse's movement and conformation.

This is a rather cursory description of the differences, others can give a much more detailed explanation of the differences.


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## RhineStone (Mar 17, 2010)

European driving has been around a whole lot longer than American driving. What you are describing for European driving is exactly how we drive our carriage horses here. We have both pleasure shows that have judged arena classes and obstacles, as well as CDEs for our carriage horses.

The American driving you describe was instituted strictly to show off the breed of the animal and less of the actual athleticism of the horse as European and American carriage driving does. It's basically a way to show off how the horse moves without riding it. Granted, you can't really ride a mini, but the majority of the mini breed ring is based on American Arabian and Saddlebred shows. If that is the case that the majority of mini drivers are using this method of driving, that is because that is what is happening in the breed ring. Ultimately, they may not even know that any other form of driving exists.

Miniatures in carriage driving events are a relatively new thing here. We had to ask to play. Our family was actually some of the first to bring miniature horses to carriage driving shows. We had to show in the Small Pony division. Now they have created the Very Small Equine division, or VSE.

You can use a side check in ADS shows, but it is not encouraged, as it can destroy the horse's ability to bend properly. Overchecks are forbidden except for a few cases where the vehicle the horse is put to traditionally used one. These are generally American four-wheeled vehicles that you won't see put to a mini.

We have FEI carriage drivers here that compete in the World Equestrian Games all over the world, but minis are not allowed at the FEI level events yet.

So, the moral of the story is, yes, we have drivers that drive the way you do, and that style is gaining in popularity. We _generally_ use the British Driving Society's rulebook as the basis for the American Driving Society, although there are differences.

Myrna

Here is a photo of one of my carriage driving turnouts. (By the way, I got THREE new hats today!




)


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## Ouburgia (Mar 17, 2010)

Whow Rhinestone! What a beautiful cart! What kind of bit are you using there?

I remember the first countrypleasure show I watched  I was just like: Is that all?


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## RhineStone (Mar 17, 2010)

Thank you. The bit is a 4 1/2" Arch Butterfly. My horse can't stand a "direct action" snaffle. I've tried mullen mouths, single jointed, double jointed (French Link), low port, etc. and even the Butterfly on the "snaffle" setting. He doesn't like his lips pulled on. He is much happier in the leverage setting.

We carriage drivers (and our experienced horses) "tolerate" the round and round arena classes to get to the obstacle classes. They are more fun. Just like CDE drivers "tolerate" Dressage to get to the Marathon. More fun.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 17, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> We carriage drivers (and our experienced horses) "tolerate" the round and round arena classes to get to the obstacle classes. They are more fun. Just like CDE drivers "tolerate" Dressage to get to the Marathon. More fun.
> Myrna


Speak for yourself- I LOVE dressage! Who wants to go get muddy and nasty and sweaty on marathon when you could be dancing figures together??



I'll admit I consider Cones the best of both worlds as I stay warm and dry but get to go fast and with precision.

Leia


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## dreaminmini (Mar 17, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> European driving has been around a whole lot longer than American driving. What you are describing for European driving is exactly how we drive our carriage horses here. We have both pleasure shows that have judged arena classes and obstacles, as well as CDEs for our carriage horses.
> The American driving you describe was instituted strictly to show off the breed of the animal and less of the actual athleticism of the horse as European and American carriage driving does. It's basically a way to show off how the horse moves without riding it. Granted, you can't really ride a mini, but the majority of the mini breed ring is based on American Arabian and Saddlebred shows. If that is the case that the majority of mini drivers are using this method of driving, that is because that is what is happening in the breed ring. Ultimately, they may not even know that any other form of driving exists.
> 
> Miniatures in carriage driving events are a relatively new thing here. We had to ask to play. Our family was actually some of the first to bring miniature horses to carriage driving shows. We had to show in the Small Pony division. Now they have created the Very Small Equine division, or VSE.
> ...


What a beautiful turnout!! You guys look amazing! Are you gong to share pics of the new hats


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## RhineStone (Mar 18, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> RhineStone said:
> 
> 
> > We carriage drivers (and our experienced horses) "tolerate" the round and round arena classes to get to the obstacle classes. They are more fun. Just like CDE drivers "tolerate" Dressage to get to the Marathon. More fun.
> ...


Technically, I'm right there with ya'! When we bought our big marathon vehicle, I told Chad that I was not going to hang off the back end of a perfectly good carriage (actually that also goes for Bull Dogging (Steer Wrestling) too, where I would not jump off a perfectly good horse, but I digress...), he is going to have to find a different Navigator. I will practice at home with him, but there is no way I'm going to get talked into falling off the back end in a competition! Half the time, I forget to lean the right direction! I like obstacles the best. I'm amazed at how many of our friends have volunteered to 'gator for Chad, though! They think it will be fun!

Here is a photo of our 'gator in training. He is eight right now, so he has a few years to perfect it! I think he likes to 'gator more than drive!






Myrna


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## MiLo Minis (Mar 19, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Here is a photo of our 'gator in training. He is eight right now, so he has a few years to perfect it! I think he likes to 'gator more than drive!Myrna


I think he is going to need a few more pounds too!



He is cute!


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## RhineStone (Mar 20, 2010)

My mom has visions of Kyle flapping in the breeze holding onto the carriage with his body horizontal to the ground, like a rag tied on the back! (Someone actually "photoshopped" a photo for one of the driving magazines a few months ago like that!)


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