# Welsh Pony- pinto genes



## crponies (Jul 14, 2004)

Anyone know what pinto genes there are in Welsh ponies? I notice a lot with four white feet and a lot of facial white.


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## mcharr36 (Jul 14, 2004)

According to the Welsh Registry, pinto is not an accepted color. But I have definate Overo mare. And just check several Welsh breeders websites. There are tons of overo marked Welshes out there, but they are not listed as such.


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## crponies (Jul 14, 2004)

Yeah, I don't know that I've ever seen a loud pinto, but I'm thinking there is probably sabino and splash genes at work. Something puts those white markings and blue eyes on them!


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## rabbitsfizz (Jul 15, 2004)

As a onceuponatime breeder of Welsh sec A and B in the UK ( these are ponies that actually came from Wales




) I can state categorically that, not only is broken coloured not accepted but Sabino is _not_ considered 'broken coloured' nor is it Overo, which is virtually unheard of. Sabino is prevalent among, notably, Sec A and Sec D, most have it in minimal form, ie white chin spot white legs, no body white. Coloured Ponies (and Horses) are just becoming popular over here and, in order to breed broken colour from Welsh, it is necessary to out-breed and bring in the Tobiano gene. I _believe_ Splash is also present, but do not know for sure.


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## USMCshamusmom (Jul 15, 2004)

American welsh are known to carry splash and sabino genes. In the early 1960's there was a heavy infusion of shetland blood introduced to "improve" the breed..

some of those shetlands already being heavy in hackney. It made the welsh leggier and longer necked, but in my opinion also changed the breed character completely. The american welsh went from being rounded with small dishy arab type heads to angular with straighter profiles. nothing stays the same, but I mourn the loss in this case! (at this same time, dapple grey became prevalent in shetlands through crossing to nice rounded araby welsh to "improve" the straight facial profiles and add some pony character back into shetland herds that had aquired the hackney heads as a result of being "improved" with hackney blood.)

Read your pony histories "between the lines" and remeber your genetics lessons.

Some ponies reported to be sired by certain others in the registries, or out of certain dams could just not have happened! It is my firm belief that there is no such thing as a "pure" breed at this point in time... Ok, done venting... waiting to see if I've thrown a bomb in here!


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## crponies (Jul 15, 2004)

Hmmm, I knew our shetlands were not like the island variety, but I had no idea the welsh weren't the same! Thanks for the info. I guess that must be why some of the breeders say they have British bloodlines.


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## runamuk (Jul 16, 2004)

I find that very interesting....the whole reason I love welsh is the dishy heads and substance...of course I must admit my favorites are the sectionC ponies and many of those are imports...I also like the sectionA ponies of certain lines....I am not impressed by sectionB at all to me they look like welsh shetland crosses no flames just my opinion if I am going to own a pony that looks mixed it may as well be a mix





I personally like most breeds of horses and ponies what I don't like is when a trend starts that takes away from the attributes that are a part of the breed.......jmo if you like saddlebreds then own saddlebreds do not try to make arabs, morgans, etc...more like saddlebreds.......to me that is just sad as each breed has/had features that made them distinctive....I am not against improving or bringing in new blood to fix problems but to change the overall look and/or character of a breed well


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## rabbitsfizz (Jul 16, 2004)

I LOVE Welsh, I love the temperament, I love the attitude, always 'in your face' I love them all!!! I'm working with a Sec D at the moment who is _such_ a gentleman. I've had Welsh foals straight off the hills and Welsh foals from top (Fair oaks and Coed Coch) bloodlines and I _LOVE_ them all!!!



I've even had Sec B's that you _would_ like



My last mare was a 12.2hh Buckskin who looked like an Arab x Sec D. She's Pony Clubbing now, having been a brood mare most of her life, and loving it. Such a _genuine_ breed. Strange though it may seem though, it may not be the out crossing that has straightened the head. When I was a kid the Greylight ponies had very straight heads. Although there is a fairytale that Arabs came ashore from the Spanish Armada (They sure did carry a lot of horses for a battle fleet if you believe all the breeds founded by them!!) I think to be honest most of the Arab was put there by Lady Wentworth, and then categorically denied by everyone who has a Greylight pony or a Crabbet Arab!!


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## runamuk (Jul 16, 2004)

hehe rabbit I love coed coch ponies.....and lady wentworth idea is very believable



my friends old arab mare who was put to rest last year was crabbet bred came from jolly old england



her name Magic Daria we own one of her daughters and she is very tiny and crabbet looking even though she is only 67% crabbet by blood.


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## Lewella (Jul 18, 2004)

Both Splash White and Sabino occur in native Welsh ponies but excessive white is very frowned upon so when it occurs the ponies are not registered (or when it happens here in the US the foal is registered half Welsh even though it is from two Welsh parents).


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## crponies (Jul 18, 2004)

Thanks, Lewella! I suspected those two genes at work with the face and leg white and blue eyes.


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