# Deafness in Overo Paints



## shelterwood (Jan 7, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I'm attaching a picture of my coming 3 year old mare Sitka, who I rescued as a yearling from a situation where many minis/ponies were sharing small spaces with 2 stallions. She was wild and untouched, thin, wormy, and totally suspect of all human beings. Since I've had her home, something has always seemed a little "off" about her behavior. It's hard to put a finger on it, but she just didn't react normally to things. She has a willing personality, now that she trusts humans, but has not been as easy to train as her sister, although she is less of an alpha personality. She has been lunged and ground driven, and hitched to a training cart a handful of times as a two year old, all very brief, easy sessions. She has done well, but has never been as responsive to voice as her sister. The last month or so, as snow has been falling and driving slowing down, my goal with her has been to maybe once a week put a blindered bridle on her and ground drive, so she doesn't completely forget lessons, and for a break from their daily routine, but mostly to get used to the reduction of vision slowly and from the ground. Now that she is in blinders, she has totally stopped listening to me! I now have to cue her with the whip to get her to move off, change gaits, or stop.

Well, now I am thinking, and just a couple of weeks ago, on a sunny day, she was asleep in the pasture, and her sister was in the barn. My other mare came to meet me and beg treats, but Sissy never even flinched. I had made quite a bit of noise, and then actually walked out to her, calling her name, kissing, etc and she still never moved, not an ear, nothing. I didn't go up to her for fear she would wake up and freak out that I was right there. She eventually woke up on her own. She also rarely vocalizes, although at times when I am out with her sister I can hear her calling, but it is very high pitched. She never nickers. She also doesn't seem to hear cars approaching from behind, and will jump as they pass.

Do you think I am reading into all this? Has anyone had experience with deafness in minis or Shetlands (they are 40", and appear to be Shetland type ponies, I know nothing of their breeding, other than they could very well have been inbred rather closely!)? Is she a splash overo? Or a sabino? Can they be BOTH? She has two ice blue eyes, her face is totally white. The other side of her is very much like the side visible in the photo. 4 white hooves. She does have some roaning around her white areas and throughout her coat. I know nothing about color!

Anyone have experience training deaf horses, big or small? In particular I'm interested in hearing from those who may have ever trained a driving horse with a hearing impairment, and what issues they had. Due to the fact that driving requires A LOT of voice aids, I'm worried she may never be a safe driving horse. any thoughts are welcome. And her face is no where near as ugly as it looks in this picture!! Thanks!

Katie


----------



## Riverrose28 (Jan 7, 2012)

Bless her heart, you may not want to hear what I have to say, but here goes, alot of horses that carry splash white are deaf. After saying that let me tell you, they can feel vibrations and are dependent on their eyesight. I had a Dell Tera bred mare that had a blad face, blue eyes, totally deaf, but she was the greatest obstacle horse, as she would put her head down and look at everything. She was our Area one Champion. she has passed, and I miss her every day. If I were you I would get my vet out to confirm weather or not she can hear, and if she can't not to worry, she can do other things, like obstacle and jumping, and halter just like my girl did. Also she will bond with you like no other, you can be her ears. I'm crying now thinking about my Dell Teras Good Sign! My little Champion, your little girl can be a Champion too.


----------



## shelterwood (Jan 7, 2012)

Riverrose,

Thanks for the input. No matter what, these girls are here to stay, so I will definitely find her an appropriate job, if she can't be driven. I guess I will have the vet out, maybe with my spring vaccines, and do the test. Has anyone ever had this done? Do most vets have the capacity to do this on-site, or would I most likely have to trailer her to a clinic? Is it expensive (well, relatively, in horse terms




)?

I'm thinking now that the main difference is that she can no longer read my body language with the blinkers on. I'm sure while lunging and ground driving the smart little stinker could read cues visually that probably masked her hearing deficit. She does still tip her ears back as if she trying to listen.....is that just normal as she knows I'm back there, or do you think maybe she can hear some? She startles A LOT if I enter the barn and she has her head down eating or something, just little jumps, and then comes to see me. But her sister always hears me coming.

Thanks for the advice, and glad you had such a positive experience with a "special needs" horse, it's encouraging.

Katie


----------



## Riverrose28 (Jan 7, 2012)

It's been my experience with a horse either blind or deaf that since they are prey animals will still act as normal as possable, hence the ear flicking. As you have noticed she is using her sight to read you and without it she is confused. At this time I have a splash white that I think is deaf, I just havn't confirmed it yet, but the vet checked my horse here on the farm with my first one, just alot of making noise and checking responses. Good luck, and you can send her here if you want I love her!


----------



## targetsmom (Jan 7, 2012)

I know someone with a deaf overo gelding that drives, so don't give up on your girl! I am not sure how he was trained and I am pretty sure the current owners bought him trained and knowing he is deaf.


----------



## shelterwood (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks Targetsmom!

I would never give up on her! She's an interesting girl with a funny personality, and now I'm beginning to see why. I'm going to post a new topic in the driving forum about this because my gut says that a deaf driving horse will have pros and cons, but she is funny because she never "spooks" per say, just jumps a bit, when something surprises her. It could be a potential pro to have lost hearing, as her sister spooks most consistently at things she can hear, but can't see. Once she can see them she's fine. So, I guess it's better than a blind horse! Anyway, I've learned a lot today on the internet, and here's an article on deafness in reining horse circles, which I had actually heard about but not associated with the overo pattern.

http://quarterhorsenews.com/index.php?Itemid=1&id=105&option=com_content&task=view

The sorrel youngster in the photo at the top looks EXACTLY like Sissy in her summer coat. She has the classic white face to above the eyes, then a straight line across where the sorrel starts, below the ears. And the blue eyes, which is similar to some dog breeds. The article says it's related to a lack of pigment in the inner ear.

Odd, but they are actively breeding this line of horse, despite the deafness, and clearly they feel like this is not really a handicap. While I have no plans to ever breed my misfit rescue mares, it also strikes me as ethically questionable.

Katie


----------



## ~Dan (Jan 7, 2012)

Katie, I don't have much advice to offer other than that your mare is beautiful!! She looks like such a sweet heart





Dan.


----------



## Carolyn R (Jan 7, 2012)

The deafness is often linked with the lack of pigmentation of the inner ear. It has to do with the nerve endings/receptors being deadened. I think there is much to be learned about this subject, but it seems very similar to dog breeds like Aussies. Many with excessive white around and in the ear suffer similar hearing loss issues.


----------



## lil hoofbeats (Jan 7, 2012)

deafness is common in splash, and overo horses. Some are deaf, and some can hear. Sometimes the deafness can be in a single ear, or it can be bilateral.


----------



## shelterwood (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks Dan! She is a sweetheart, a charmer, and bit of a brat!

Carolyn,

Yes, I learned that today about the pigmentation in the inner ear. Weird. I've known a couple of aussies that have been deaf, and all have done well, as long as they are kept safe and out of roads etc. Indeed, I have a lot to learn, and a whole new way of looking at her behavior. The other day, I went to put the blinkered bridle on her and she reacted oddly, pulling away and really avoiding the bridle. I gently scolded her and offered her the bridle again, which she accepted reluctantly. Now I know why she resented/feared this. I was taking away her best sense and defense, her peripheral vision! Not going there again!

Katie


----------



## mini horse mania (Jan 7, 2012)

lil hoofbeats said:


> deafness is common in splash, and overo horses. Some are deaf, and some can hear. Sometimes the deafness can be in a single ear, or it can be bilateral.


I agree...one of my breeder friends has a gorgeous mare I am thinking about buying....she is splash white and del Tera bred. She is totally deaf...she still does fine in the pasture..

My stallion is a black frame overo splash....yet he has his hearing...I have no idea what determines which horse has hearing and which don't...


----------



## susanne (Jan 7, 2012)

I may have missed this earlier in your thread, but have you considered driving her in an open (non-blinkered) bridle?

While a deaf horse may do quite well, have a job, and be kept from harm, I'm bothered by the readiness of many to breed and thus perpetuate this handicap, whether it be for color or whatever reason.


----------



## Lizzie (Jan 7, 2012)

Many animals with white spotting patterns, suffer deafness. In dogs, it is often associated with white ears/inner ears. Harlequin Great Danes, Border Collies, Boston Terriers and others, are often known with the problem. I imagine, it is no different in horses. However, I have not seen or heard of it, in Tobiano spotted horses. Only Frame.

In Gypsies, we have tons of animals with one or two white ears. In fact, it is considered by the Gypsies, lucky to have one white ear. We have no frame in Gypsies, just Tobiano spotting, so I think that makes the difference in not finding deafness in the breed.

Lizzie


----------



## shelterwood (Jan 7, 2012)

Susanne,

I started a separate thread on the driving forum about what will now be my journey of trying to drive a deaf horse. I will NEVER put blinders on her again, now that the puzzle has come together. Not fair to her at all, and I assume I'm going to need to communicate with her via her vision to some degree anyway. She has been doing fine in an open bridle up to this point, ground driving all over, down the road, on trails. She only jumps a bit at cars if she is looking the other way, otherwise she is fine. It's so gosh darn obvious to me now that she can't hear! Just wish I could have put the pieces together sooner for her benefit.

Katie


----------



## little lady (Jan 7, 2012)

Deafness is associated with the Splash overo. The markings on your mare are typical of one that could be deaf, not all marked that way are. A paint stud by the name of Colonels Smoking Gun(Gunner) is a splash overo that is deaf but has had an amazing career as a reining horse, LTE $177,670. Many of his foals have similiar markings and are deaf and have gone on to be wonderful reining horses also. I have seen Gunner many times and I am always in awe of him, another thing I have noticed with some of these horses is that they hold or even perhaps their ears are set a bit different on their head. It is hard to describe so I would suggest checking out Gunners pictures on McQuay Stables website to see what I am talking about. I think your beautiful mare can prove to be a wonderful asset and a great source of enjoyment for you.


----------



## Cavallini Farms (Jan 7, 2012)

I have a deaf mini gelding, he's been the easiest horse I have to train. Very willing, very sensitive. He was trained to drive when he was younger, and yes we used an open bridle. He's a splash pinto, ETA: I have read that 90% of them are deaf yet they still perform just fine. There are reiners, cutters, etc that are deaf, its not the end of the world, you just do things a bit differently.


----------



## Charlotte (Jan 7, 2012)

I have been reading through this and am so pleased to see all of those who wouldn't consider 'throwing away' their horse as defective.



to you!

Cavallini Farms, where can I read on the studies that have found 90% of Splash pattern horses are deaf? I personally know of many splash horses but have only known of one to be deaf so I would like to read on this. Hmmm, Actually, I have several right now that are probably splash but not deaf.


----------



## Songcatcher (Jan 7, 2012)

I have at least 5 at present that carry Splash, and not one of them is deaf. I have had many others in the past and never had one that was deaf, although I know it _can_ happen.


----------



## Cavallini Farms (Jan 7, 2012)

I don't know where I read it, its been 4 years since I purchased him and discovered his deafness so who knows where the article was at this point...

I also recall the article saying the splash pintos look as though they have been held from the top and dipped straight down into white paint. My gelding has one large spot on his rump, the rest of his body and head are white, and he's got two blue eyes. His pattern matched the article photos.

Anyway, I guess my point was missed, it was that he is a super gelding and I've had no problems with him. He's a keeper for sure. I wish you luck with yours and hope you have as much fun with them as I do with Zig


----------



## Cavallini Farms (Jan 7, 2012)

I just did a google search and can't find that article, but I did find one saying MOST splash pintos are NOT deaf! Please ignore my previous post, clearly I got bad info (who knew everything you read on the web isn't true?!)


----------



## rabbitsfizz (Jan 8, 2012)

It is not so much the pattern, it is how it is placed. A lot of Merle dogs are deaf as well. We see deafness in Splash (please forget the overo bit it has nothing to do with this discussion nd only confuses things, It is how we got the assumption that two Sabinos bred together could produce LWO) because it is the pattern that most often puts white over the ears. I am assuming there may have been a genetic link found between Splash and deafness?? Surely, if this had happened, though, we would have a foot in the door to testing for Splash?? So, as far as I can see, any horse with any pattern that goes over the ears could be deaf, it could merely be coincidence that this occurs most in Splash.........


----------



## shelterwood (Jan 8, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> It is not so much the pattern, it is how it is placed. A lot of Merle dogs are deaf as well. We see deafness in Splash (please forget the overo bit it has nothing to do with this discussion nd only confuses things, It is how we got the assumption that two Sabinos bred together could produce LWO) because it is the pattern that most often puts white over the ears. I am assuming there may have been a genetic link found between Splash and deafness?? Surely, if this had happened, though, we would have a foot in the door to testing for Splash?? So, as far as I can see, any horse with any pattern that goes over the ears could be deaf, it could merely be coincidence that this occurs most in Splash.........


Jane,

My mares pattern of white on her face does not go over her ears.....is that what you meant? Maybe she's the exception to the rule, but many of the pictures of deaf paints I have seen so far in my brief research have shown horses with colored, not white, ears, totally white faces that have a nearly straight line just above the eyes and below the ears where the darker pigment starts. It seems that the issue is internal pigmentation in the inner ear, so it seems like looking at the outside of the horse only gives you so many clues.

From what I read there has not been a definitive genetic marker discovered for deafness in these paint horses.

It's amazing at how differently I am now reading her behavior! Hopefully this awareness leads to a better understanding of her training needs.

Thanks for the posts!


----------



## lil hoofbeats (Jan 8, 2012)

susanne said:


> I may have missed this earlier in your thread, but have you considered driving her in an open (non-blinkered) bridle?
> 
> While a deaf horse may do quite well, have a job, and be kept from harm, I'm bothered by the readiness of many to breed and thus perpetuate this handicap, whether it be for color or whatever reason.


Hi Suzanne, i think its great that you posted. Thank you for taking time to do that.

Both my grand parents were born Deaf. They never considered themselves handicap, or allowed anyone else to consider them handicap. They led full lives, traveled, built a home, had 2 children(both able to hear),worked until they both were in their late 70's.) I have lived in a deaf community all my life, as we have the North Carolina School for the deaf here in Morganton. I have never really thought of the deaf people that i have known as handicap. They just seem to be able to do all that i can do, some things much better than me.

I guess that is why the thought of a deaf horse, dog, goat, bird or child never really bothered me. I have a little mare in my pasture that is deaf, and she gets along well, and no one every really notices that she is deaf. The other horses treat her the same. She has no special issues, or needs. I am not sure her hearing impairment has been handicap for her. And I am not sure that i consider her a "flawed" animal.

In fact, as i am sitting here listening to my boy friend in the background, i am wondering if i became deaf, that my life might be a little easier as well.


----------



## shelterwood (Jan 8, 2012)

lil hoofbeats said:


> Hi Suzanne, i think its great that you posted. Thank you for taking time to do that.
> 
> Both my grand parents were born Deaf. They never considered themselves handicap, or allowed anyone else to consider them handicap. They led full lives, traveled, built a home, had 2 children(both able to hear),worked until they both were in their late 70's.) I have lived in a deaf community all my life, as we have the North Carolina School for the deaf here in Morganton. I have never really thought of the deaf people that i have known as handicap. They just seem to be able to do all that i can do, some things much better than me.
> 
> ...


Lil hoofbeats,

Agreed! People, in all their variations and lovliness should NEVER be considered "flawed" and therefore be called into the same conversation about reproduction as animals, if that is what you were inferring?? I have genetic disease in my family that despite the risks, has not stopped anyone from having a family, and for that I am very pleased, obviously!

But for animals, of whom we manipulate for our likes, benefits, and needs, one does have to wonder if it is ethically sound to breed animals with known deficiencies (I had to choose my wording very carefully there, and even still may take some heat), as while my little mare has found a happy home that is now struggling to figure out how to best meet her needs and best potential, she is the exception to the rule. She can be difficult to handle, has trust issues, and may not be safe to use as a driving animal or riding animal for a child. So given those risks, she very well could end up in a bad situation. The question Susanne raised is one of passing this trait on to more generations, not whether or not one considers a deaf animal "flawed".

I would love to hear about your deaf mare. What have you done with her? Do you breed her? I'm not asking so I can judge you or holler at you!! Really! I'm curious what people think about this. I very much enjoy a nonjudgemental ethical discussion.

Katie


----------



## lil hoofbeats (Jan 8, 2012)

Sure Katie, She is an awesome little mare in my eyes, beautiful head, deep hip, wonderful topline. She is the type of mare that i like.

She has raised 4 babies, and is foal for her 5th this year. All her babies could hear with the exception of one. That one was sold to a couple, and they were told she is deaf. They did not believe me, and still dont believe me, but yes that baby is deaf.

The reason that i do not have a problem with deaf horses, is because i have been around hearing impaired people all my life and i do not think that they are handicap.

Personally a horses hearing status would never be factor on if i bred them or bought them, as i do not consider this a problem. I do however always disclose if there is a hearing impairment on a horse i am selling so the potential buyer can evaluate that for themselves.


----------



## HGFarm (Jan 8, 2012)

It certainly sounds suspicious by what you are saying, that she may be deaf. White cats can have the deaf gene (eye color in the cats has nothing to do with it) and I have two spayed female Manx that are deaf. No one who has ever come to visit can ever tell that they are deaf. A male that was born here was placed in a relatives home- he is now about 10 years old and is a great pet and believe it or not, a great mouser as well!

Their other senses take over and they learn to adapt to things in their own way by what works for them. You will both find a good way to work through things and yes, with the cats I use more pronounced signals to get their attention. They can't hear me call them, but they can feel the vibration of my foot on the floor two or three times- or I will make sure I am within their line of sight and use a hand signal. What's funny is that I never come home at the same time daily but they are almot always the first to greet me at the door when I do- I have never figured out how they know, but they do!

Bless you for giving your little horse a chance at a productive and fun life!


----------



## Charlotte (Jan 8, 2012)

Cavallini farm



> who knew everything you read on the web isn't true?!)







that's the problem! It's so difficult to search out the correct information....AND information can change in a short period of time so we have to keep searching all the time to stay on top of current research.
I think it's wonderful that you have such rapport with your horse.


----------



## Lizzie (Jan 8, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> It is not so much the pattern, it is how it is placed. A lot of Merle dogs are deaf as well. We see deafness in Splash (please forget the overo bit it has nothing to do with this discussion nd only confuses things, It is how we got the assumption that two Sabinos bred together could produce LWO) because it is the pattern that most often puts white over the ears. I am assuming there may have been a genetic link found between Splash and deafness?? Surely, if this had happened, though, we would have a foot in the door to testing for Splash?? So, as far as I can see, any horse with any pattern that goes over the ears could be deaf, it could merely be coincidence that this occurs most in Splash.........



It's interesting isn't it, Rabbitsfizz. In Gypsies we see Splash all the time. So far I have not heard of any being deaf, so will ask on our Gypsy Horse forum today. We also do not have Frame in the breed, so do you think that might have something to do with it?

Lizzie


----------



## lil hoofbeats (Jan 8, 2012)

You are right Charlotte, things change so much, its importatnt to keep learning as things evolve!

And Katie i just reread your post, and you are right humans should never be compared with animals, and I should not have done that. I was just trying to let everyone know how my thought process came about, and why a hearing issue on an animal was not a big deal to me. But you are right! Reproduction in humans, and reproduction in animals are two completely different things.

To me deafness in an animal would not prohibit me from using it in a breeding program. I do however respect someones opinion not to use it, and would/do disclose a horses hearing impairment to any person looking to purchase the animal, whether i was ask that question or not. I would hope any person breeding splash horses would be open about that as well, because if you raise enough of them, you will have deaf foals born. Even from 2 hearing parents.


----------



## slv (Jan 8, 2012)

I confess that I have not read this entire thread, only the first page, so if what I am stating sounds like I have missed something, perhaps I did, LOL But I have several splash overo minis and a few frames and none of them are deaf. So I do think the internet article that said 90% of them are is incorrect.


----------



## lil hoofbeats (Jan 8, 2012)

slv said:


> I confess that I have not read this entire thread, only the first page, so if what I am stating sounds like I have missed something, perhaps I did, LOL But I have several splash overo minis and a few frames and none of them are deaf. So I do think the internet article that said 90% of them are is incorrect.


Yes most of my splashes( and i have a bunch) can hear. I think it is more like 10% that can not hear. At least that is what i have seen personally in my herd.


----------



## Becky (Jan 8, 2012)

From what I have seen over the years, it appears that homozygous splashed horses that carry no other pattern are the most likely to be deaf. They also are the ones who are generally all to mostly white with at least a white head.

Mixed pattern horses, no matter the amount of white, don't seem to be deaf in any fashion. I have had many tobiano/splashed white horses that are virtually all white. Some have had only a tiny medicine hat while others may only have color in their tails. None have been deaf. I have had some full pattern (likely homozygous splash) horses and none have been deaf.

There are also frame overo horses that are deaf, so deafness isn't limited to only the splashed pattern.

Having said that, in all of my years in miniatures (23 to be exact), I have rarely ever seen a deaf horse and I have seen a lot of miniatures!


----------



## rabbitsfizz (Jan 8, 2012)

Actually, the only Splash that was deaf that I have personal experience of was a LWO tested Splash, so, not true about the mixed pattern thing, I am afraid, but a well thought out theory, I think.

We can only keep guessing, until we have a test for Splash- I think the test _will_ end up being associated with deafness, myself, that was the foot in the door with Lp.(sorry, not deafness, night blindness, obviously, with Lp)

The line most famous for deafness in Splash was the Millard line, - QH/Paints in Australia, they were all( or almost all) deaf, that would seem a good place to start.

The white could be inside the ear, btw, way down inside where you would need to go with one of those things doctors use- it is, typically, also white on the outside, but no rule says it has to be.

There is no problem I can see with breeding a deaf mare that is well balanced, although it is an obvious "fault" in the animals kingdom (ie not an ideal state) we do not know (I don't think, anyway??) how it is inherited- the percentage seems fairly low in humans even with both parents deaf, although it runs in families. I would not use a deaf stallion, mainly because a mare only has one foal a year.


----------



## Becky (Jan 8, 2012)

I haven't seen any tobiano/splash deaf horses. LWO/splash a definite possibility. Still waiting for the day when there is a test for splash.


----------



## Mona (Jan 8, 2012)

I once owned a (visible) Splashed White that also carried/tested + for frame. Although I never had him actually sound tested, I do believe he was deaf. The first sign I noticed was his weanling year, the winter after we bought him, he was standing in a small little shelter. Hubby was banging around out behind it, and I was watching Voodoo standing inside, not even flinching! I had Chris actually bang on the shelter, and where most horses would have come running out half scared to death, he stood there like he heard nothing!



We had the vet look at him and do a simple "test" here, just with making noises to see if he repsonded, and he never, so we were sure he was deaf. Around that time, I did read up on deafness in horses, and read that deaf horses can often make even better riding/driving horses as they are not prone to spooking at noises!

This was my deaf guy...


----------



## lil hoofbeats (Jan 8, 2012)

Yes i have seen several splash/Frame deaf horses, and like rabbit Fizz said, most had white ears. But until Becky just mentioned it, she is right, i have NEVER seen a tobi/splash that was deaf, hmmm... never thought about it...but in fact, i have never seen one.

That is interesting, i wonder why.

What i have noticed when breeding splashes, are there seem to be several Splash type patterns.


----------



## rabbitsfizz (Jan 9, 2012)

I think it is coincidence, myself, I cannot see anything in Tobiano, beyond it's drive to stop white forward of the shoulder, that would stop deafness.

As I said, the white on the ears can be way down, inside the ears, unseeable to the naked eye.


----------



## Songcatcher (Jan 9, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> I think it is coincidence, myself, I cannot see anything in Tobiano, beyond it's drive to stop white forward of the shoulder, that would stop deafness.
> 
> As I said, the white on the ears can be way down, inside the ears, unseeable to the naked eye.


And that may be the reason. Tobiano tends to keep white off the head and ears.


----------



## Becky (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm referring to tobi/splashed horses like this one. Solid white with only black hair in her tail. No color on the head. Ones with very high white and I've never seen ones like these that also carry tobiano that are deaf. Maybe it is just coincidence, but who knows? They definitely have white ears.

And this one. Tiny medicine hat only. Rest of the head and body is solid white.


----------



## Becky (Jan 9, 2012)

Thank you, Diane. I'm really proud of my breeding program!





I want to add that the two horses pictured are sired by the stallion in my avatar, Redrock Magic Maker.


----------



## wildoak (Jan 9, 2012)

We've only had one deaf baby, and it was obvious pretty early on. Her reactions to her environment were just not normal - she belonged to a friend, I had just foaled out the mare for her so I didn't get to keep her around longer than a few weeks but I "tested" her when I became suspicious and she had no reaction to coming up and making loud noises directly behind her. She was a beautiful, loud overo filly by a solid sorrel, out of a solid mare with blue eyes & bald face. Something of a surprise for us all lol. She was lost, fyi, to a snakebite as a yearling.. if the snake rattled I assume she wouldn't have heard it and been warned away.

Jan


----------



## rabbitsfizz (Jan 9, 2012)

See, sorry to pick on you,Wildoak btw, nothing personal I assure you, but, honestly what does "overo" mean??

Nothing, it tells us nothing. What pattern was the deaf horse? (probably Splash, by the sounds of it. )I don't think I have heard of a straight Sabino being deaf, but how on earth would you know whether it was straight Sabino??

There is no reason, and I am certainly not saying, that all "white" horses are deaf. I have had blue eyed white Persians with perfect hearing, I have had deaf, odd eyed Persians (and they are supposed to be able to hear.)

Just as Splash gives blue eyes a lot of the time, but does not have to give blue eyes, so it brings deafness some of the time (or so it would seem)and when it does it is to horses with white on or in the ears- maybe!!

I have also seen red collies , carrying Merle, look solid red and be deaf. We have not found out the whys of this, yet, only a few "maybes"


----------



## shelterwood (Jan 29, 2012)

Hey all,

I'm bumping this up to ask a question. Now that I see there is a test for the splash gene, and am learning so much from these posts, I'm wondering how to access the test and how much it costs? I am curious only because my mare's deafness is obviously related to her coloring, and wonder if she is all splash or a combination of things. She roans out quite a bit, I don't know if that means anything?? I have no intentions of breeding her, as she was a rescue and I have no clue as to her bloodlines etc, and don't think the world needs another unregistered, unknown mini/pony as I see too many that need homes as it is. Taking that into account, is there any reason for me to get her tested? Besides my own knowledge to share with all of you?? thanks

Katie


----------



## Lizzie (Jan 29, 2012)

I rather think that it would be interesting to get testing results on as many deaf horses as possible. There is obviously something else going on in these horses.

In Gypsies - and there are now over 20,000 in the US, I would say the vast majority are tobiano, splash and sabino of one type or another. So far on our forums, we have never heard of deaf horses. Either uni-lateral or bi-lateral. The Gypsy breeders in the UK, actually consider white ears 'lucky'. Thousands of them do have one or both white ears. With Splash being prominent in the breed, we see many blue eyes. I'm still not sure that some kind of sabino, might not also cause blue eyes though. Like Minis, Gypsies are found in every colour, except frame.

Lizzie


----------



## Sandy B (Jan 29, 2012)

A very popular Quarter Horse(and paint) line (in the reining) produces a lot of deaf offspring and MANY of these offspring have gone on to win thousands if no over $100,000 in the reining arena. You just have to adjust your way of training.


----------



## rabbitsfizz (Jan 30, 2012)

If she is deaf, and she is Pinto, she has Splash, so no need to test. Sab1 is pretty pointless, and as you will not be breeding her LWO is not of interest, so I would save your money!


----------



## shelterwood (Jan 30, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> If she is deaf, and she is Pinto, she has Splash, so no need to test. Sab1 is pretty pointless, and as you will not be breeding her LWO is not of interest, so I would save your money!


Thanks Jane! That's kind of what I was thinking. I wonder with the development of this genetic test that they will start to pinpoint more directly the how's and why's of the deafness, as in why only a select few end up with the loss of hearing. Must just be a pattern thing, and where the white falls in the inner ear.


----------



## Songcatcher (Jan 30, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> If she is deaf, and she is Pinto, she has Splash, so no need to test.


Odds are, that is correct. However, the _possibility_ exists that the deafness _could_ be caused by something else.

If the animal is not a breeding animal, I don't think I would go to the expense of testing. I would just accept the visual color/patterns for what they appear.


----------



## PaintsRule (Aug 29, 2012)

Okay I have a question because I cant seem to find an answer anywhere else. Since the hairs inside the ear also affect balance in humans, is there the possibility that the lack of hairs inside the ear that causes deafness in splashed white overos (my understanding is that its this lack of pigment in the INNER ear that causes deafness and it is not always linked to the outside ear being white also) if it was only in one ear cause a horse that is deaf in one ear to have balance problems? Our splashed white mare that has white totally over her one ear, was not turned out in the field for a time and when turning her out she seemed to stagger once in awhile. I went and pushed on her hips and she is solid and does not appear to be in pain for any reason.... and then after being out awhile she seemed to be better.....


----------

