# Orchard Grass vs Bermuda?



## ShaunaL (Jan 29, 2010)

I currently feed Equine Jr/Sr, Omelene 200 and the Bermuda. I would like to change the Bermuda to something else - I am tired of the waste (it's such a messy hay!), I seem to have to feed a lot of it and in researching the nutrients it seems that Orchard Grass might be a better choice.

Who else is familiar with feeding Orchard Grass vs Bermuda? Is there a difference in the amounts you have to feed? Does it go well with Equine Jr/Sr and the Omelenes? These are mainly show horses and 3 broodmares (2 open, will be bred next month, one due in June). The show horses are one yearling colt, two 2 year old fillies and a 2.5 year old stallion. They are in good weight/condition except one of the fillies is just now starting to get to where I want her weight wise and the other filly is still pretty thin. She is one of the reasons I am considering a better hay.

I want to find out as much as possible before deciding to switch. While I am not over the top pleased with Bermuda my horses seem to be doing very well on this feed program so they would be fine staying on it. I'm just tired of the mess and feeling like I'm feeding so much hay. Also after researching I feel like they could be on a better quality hay. The Bermuda is more economical for me, is Orchard Grass worth the extra cost? I've been looking around and most of the Orchard Grass bales around here run $24 - $25/bale but yesterday I found it in the next town over for $18/bale. I pay $13/bale for Bermuda so obviously that is part of its appeal for me




Although I seem to have to feed more than I should have to so maybe I'm not saving money after all.

Thank you for your help!


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## Marty (Jan 29, 2010)

I am not a fan of some of the Bermudas, but that is because Bermuda grown in the south is much different from what I have seen of it grown in other areas. I really think all hay depends on many factors: where it was grown, how the fields were prepared and fertilized, time it was harvested etc. So when asking what kind of hay VS another, we all have our favorites, but we do need to take these things into consideration.

I love orchard grass that grows here in the south. Never had a problem with it, little to no waste, and usually don't pay more than $4.00 a bale for it. My Prancers find it very nutricious. But again, being fair, we have had a couple of bad hay years with a lot of rain that postponed harvesting and when that happens and hay gets overly mature, it can become coarse. But I still prefer orchard grass across the board. I do like to keep some alfalfa on hand for my senior horse to mix with his orchard grass.


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## ShaunaL (Jan 29, 2010)

Marty said:


> I am not a fan of some of the Bermudas, but that is because Bermuda grown in the south is much different from what I have seen of it grown in other areas. I really think all hay depends on many factors: where it was grown, how the fields were prepared and fertilized, time it was harvested etc. So when asking what kind of hay VS another, we all have our favorites, but we do need to take these things into consideration.


Thank you for your reply Marty! That is an excellent point about the differences in locations. The Orchard grass here seems to be good quality and so is our Bermuda. I'm not sure where it comes from but at $13 and $18/bale I doubt it's local



$4 a bale??? Wow, I could afford more horses if my feed cost that much less!!


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## MiniatureEscapades (Jan 29, 2010)

ShaunaL said:


> Thank you for your reply Marty! That is an excellent point about the differences in locations. The Orchard grass here seems to be good quality and so is our Bermuda. I'm not sure where it comes from but at $13 and $18/bale I doubt it's local
> 
> 
> 
> $4 a bale??? Wow, I could afford more horses if my feed cost that much less!!


Funy that, I was just thinking 'At $13 a bale I don't think I could afford my horse!



' Our local Purina supplier happens to grow the most beautiful coastal hay you have ever seen in your life. When we first got our weanling it was all she could eat, being as soft as it was. She charges $5 a bale during the growing season, $6.50 in the dead of winter since she is almost out of it. We have recently switched to an orchard/timothy cross that comes from across the state. It's $6.50 a bale, not as green as the coastal but just as pretty. Both are really great hays, and I would take either depending on what I could get at the time. It's just a matter of looking at the hays, I think.

As for feeding it with Jr. and Omolene, I have done both so far. I've fed the same ammount with both of the feeds as far as hay goes, which is to say I give her as much as she wants! It rarely comes out to be over one flake. At one point I would pile up 2 or 3 flakes of hay in a hay net and not have to worry about it for a while



The lazy mans way out! She has never wasted a single drop of either hay, she always cleans up what I gave her given time. I just lay it on a swept-back part of her stall mat now.


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## disneyhorse (Jan 29, 2010)

Hello...

I am also in Southern California.

Bermuda grass is useful, and inexpensive as far as grass hays go... but yes it is messy and you have to feed a LOT of it!

My quarter horse pony (14.1 hands) was raised on Bermuda grass and I've never changed her feed. However, I feed a flake of Bermuda and half a flake of alfalfa twice daily to her. If I fed another type of hay, I could dramatically reduce the amount of food she gets... I think she probably would only need a whole flake total twice daily. However, she looks fine on this feed and I do like that she gets to munch on the Bermuda grass pretty much all day long, so that is what she gets.

Now my Shetland pony colt, he is on a diet which is 75% orchard grass and 25% alfalfa, he is 380 pounds and gets about 4-5 pounds of this mixed hay per feeding (twice daily).

Remember, with grass hays you do have to feed a lot more than with alfalfa. However, I feel that straight-alfalfa diets are not best for the horse, and by feeding a lot of grass, you increase the amount of time they are eating.

The orchard hay I buy here (I am in Orange County) ranges from $15.50 during the cheapest part of the year all the way to $23. Right now I think I am paying $18. Usually the quality is very good.

Orchard hay has a lot more nutrients (protein and such) than Bermuda grass, and is second only to Timothy hay. I would feed timothy except it is usually rarely under $20 a bale. Orchard and Timothy hays, you can pretty much free-feed them to youngsters and sometimes even adult horses. They are very good hays.

I'd recommend the Orchard any day. You will still have to feed "a lot" and it's still somewhat messy. But because the quality of nutrients are better, I think you will find yourself feeding a small bit less and your horses will look better in the topline.

Andrea


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## disneyhorse (Jan 29, 2010)

Oh, I forgot to mention...

It looks like you are feeding straight Bermuda, so adding a little bit of alfalfa will greatly reduce the amount you are feeding. I like to feed anywhere between 25% and 50% alfalfa per weight to my horses.

Bales of alfalfa are really cheap here (well, I pay $10 per bale) and the bales go a long way. Adding a handful of alfalfa to your grass hay (whether it is Bermuda or Orchard) will really help, as the alfalfa will provide a protein and mineral punch to the diet. It is a good hay in moderation.

Andrea


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## barbiedoll68346 (Jan 29, 2010)

Wow, is all I can say. Are you paying that much for small square bales. If so, I will never whine again. I get angry when I have to pay $3.00. I am SO lucky.

Barb


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## chandab (Jan 29, 2010)

We got to remember the size of bales when talking prices too... Alot of those $15-$20 bales are also 100-120# bales, whereas most of the $3-$5 bales are 50-75#; still makes the $15-20/bale hay expensive but not quite as bad.

I'd love to get orchardgrass or timothy hay, but all that available around here is brome, prairie and wheatgrass hay (and of course alfalfa). And, you have to grow it yourself or buy direct from the hay grower, they don't sell hay at feed stores around here.


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## Katiean (Jan 29, 2010)

When my mares are not pregnant I like to get the Alfelfa/orchard grass mix. It is usually 60% orchard grass and 40% alfelfa and usually a good quality. I hate feeding some of this and some of that. With the mix you just open 1 bale at a time and feed from that. The mix runs about $11 a bale.


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## Hosscrazy (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm also in So. Cal. - I tried bermuda a few years ago and my minis were not very excited about the way it tasted! I also didn't like that it was often long and stringy - looked like an impaction waiting to happen...

We currently feed orchard grass to some of the full size horses and I switched over to timothy hay (along with soaked timothy pellets) a few years ago and I'm very happy with it. But yes, timothy is expense here ($22 - $26 a bale) so it really depends on how minis you have and what your budget is. I'm down to 2 minis, so a bale lasts me quite a while.





Liz R.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jan 29, 2010)

The quality of hay plays a big part. I have friends that feed Orchard and I do not know how to describe it other then it is hmm thin stemmed and I want to say crunchy although that is a bit of a exaggeration but I liken it to softer pine needles in both width of blade and texture. They love this hay it is green and they feel it is wonderful and have had it tested for protien.

My orchard is nothing like that at all mine is green but almost a weird blue green not a bright green like theirs is- mine is very soft and thicker stemmed and does not have the same texture as theirs at all it is just softer and much more hmm pliable I guess would describe it.

She feeds much more of hers then I do but all in all her hay is much lighter then mine is as well.

Guess all that long drawn out story was to say is that each field is different and while it can be good quality there is still a difference in hay depending on where it is grown

Oh since we are discussing price after living in So Cal I feel I am getting a bargin at 9 bucks for a 28 lb bale. And the bales in CA are usually pretty big 3 string bales


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## disneyhorse (Jan 29, 2010)

Yes, our $15-25 bales are big, three string bales. The grass hays average 100# per bale, and alfalfa is often 120# per bale.

When I say a "flake" here, it is a seven pound flake... so most big horses get a flake per feeding.

Andrea


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## ShaunaL (Jan 29, 2010)

Thank you everyone, this is very helpful, although Andrea, now you threw in another option auughhh



Too many decisions. So, if you were me, would you switch over to Orchard Grass (leaning that way) or stay with Bermuda and add alfalfa?

Feed is expensive here but EVERYTHING is pricey in SoCal so we are used to it. Although I have sudden attacks of "mustleaveSoCalitis" sometimes when I hear how much land/house/horses/feed/etc can be bought at such lower prices elsewhere



I am always amazed at how many horses some of these big farms can feed, until I remember that feed costs so much less in other places.


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## disneyhorse (Jan 29, 2010)

If I were you, I'd add alfalfa to your Bermuda grass diet. I really think that will add to your feeding program and reduce the amount of grass you are feeding. Generally, I feel grass is grass but I do like the orchard better for show and breeding horses, so that's what they get. My quarter pony, she doesn't work pretty much at all beyond some daily maintenance exercise, so I have no worries about her physique.

Andrea


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## ShaunaL (Jan 29, 2010)

disneyhorse said:


> If I were you, I'd add alfalfa to your Bermuda grass diet. I really think that will add to your feeding program and reduce the amount of grass you are feeding. Generally, I feel grass is grass but I do like the orchard better for show and breeding horses, so that's what they get. My quarter pony, she doesn't work pretty much at all beyond some daily maintenance exercise, so I have no worries about her physique.Andrea


Ok, I will try that and see how it goes. I am a strong believer in feeding in to condition and show season is fast approaching, the perfect time to perfect my feeding program.

Thank you!


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## SilverDollar (Jan 30, 2010)

Hi Shauna,

I'm in Ventura County (not too far from you) and I feed Orchard grass hay. I pay anywhere from $14-$24/3-string bale (100-110#). I need to test my hay before purchasing and buy either from the feed store, hay broker, or direct from the grower. I have an IR/Cushing's pony that needs low sugar hay (low NSC) and the Orchard has been the most consistent with the sugars and quality--I prefer the fine blades, not stringy or stemmy. Timothy can be good but I have had such a hard time finding consistent quality, and most of it comes back with high NSCs. I also balance the minerals to each batch of hay (it's easy).

I stay away from Bermuda just because it is so fine and stringy--I worry about colic and a few vets I know worry too. I know many people who feed it with no problems; just my personal preference. (A couple of my boys like to eat fast, too, and didn't chew the Bermuda enough when I used to feed it years ago.)

I purchased a load of Orchard hay from a grower in Ojai that is decent; it's very low in sugar with good protein levels and has nice blades (but does have a bit of brown). The horses are eating it just fine and it was only $14/bale--the cheapest I've ever paid for it around here.

There is a group of us locally that regularly test hay and share the results (Orchard, Timothy and Bermuda) and we purchase it in larger quantities. We're kind of picky about our hay.



If you're interested in getting on the email list let me know. There's always someone who is looking for and testing hay. There's also an equine nutrition seminar coming up in a few weeks in Ojai if you have any interest in that too.

Rebecca

(I also have occasional bouts of "mustleaveSoCalitis". We could get so much more land elsewhere and things are cheaper. But then I hear the weather reports from other states and stay put.



)


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## Ojai Minis (Jan 30, 2010)

Hi Shauna,

I too, am in So. CA (Ventura Co.). I feed Orchard grass and a small amount of the 1/4 inch alfalfa pellets. I've just added in some digestive stuff but not much else. (They get to graze in the winter if we've had enough rain, ha!) I do this with my preg mares also. I will only increase the alfalfa pellets after they have foaled. They are all very healthy on this. (I don't show any). I won't feed Bermuda. I did once to my Paint Gelding and he looked AWFUL and it was so messy. They guy who picked up manure from me refused to do so while feeding it as it grew in his orchard and it's basically a weed that he didn't want in his organic orchard. I've also heard it can cause bad impactions. I don't feed Timothy as none of my horses will eat it. I actually don't mind getting different loads of the Orchard as I feel that each load has a bit of different nutrients. So, they get a variety of grasses. Sometimes it will have a bit of alfalfa in, which of course the horses pick out first. The reason I feed the alf pellets is because I can't be guarenteed that I can get finer stemmed alfalfa. Sometimes it's really coarse.

I think the last load I bought of Orchard was around $21 per bale. But a bale will last me a while for my six horses.

Liz


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## sls (Jan 30, 2010)

The different hays prices accross our nation is amazing. But one thing I notice that folks have not mentioned is the size of the bales. As an example when we lived in Florida a 40 lbs bale (average size) of Alfalfa was $12.00 and the grass hay was $8.00. In Arizona the average bale size is 100 lbs and Alfalfa is $9.00 and Bermuda is $12.00. In comparing Florida and Arizona you get double the bale of hay in size.

Just thought it was interesting


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