# Feeling discouraged.



## ~Dan (Dec 12, 2012)

Hello everyone, I'm having some troubles with my driving mare, and I would like to vent my frustrations, and maybe get some advice.

Since mid-July I was paying a local woman who is an experienced driver (being as she is also a mini owner was a big plus to me) to help me get my 9 year old mare, Polly, back into driving, and getting very basic lessons from her. According to my trainer, Polly is a very expeierenced drivng horse, and was pretty extensively trained. Seeing as I did not own my own equipment at the time, I was using my trainers cart and harness until I ordered mine. After August, we did not work on my mare anymore, just my 5 year old gelding, training him to harness, which is still in the process of happening. Anyhow, I have spent over 1000 dollars on ordering harnesses for both horses, my cart, gas money to go pick it up (went through the Amish, which was a mistake) and some modifications. It took me well over a month to get my harnesses and my cart in order, so up until a few weeks, I was unable to drive. A few days after Thanksgiving, I had my trainer out to help me fit the harness, go over hitching again, etc. We hitch Polly and go for a drive together. She was pretty good, acting up a bit at first, but otherwise she did really well. Last Friday I go to hitch up (first time hitching alone, so took me a while) and we start driving. Polly was acting spooky, not listening to coommands, but I attributed it to the fact that I was getting frustrated, and that Polly likes to push buttona, test people, and act plain stupid sometimes. I made sure we ended on a good note, and that was that. It rained for the past few days, so I hadn't been able to drive until today. Go to hitch and all went well, and we go on our way. One lap around the house, and we have a melt down. All of a sudden, Polly either slipped or spooked, or both, going down a slight decline, jumps the the right, and begins to act as if she is about to take off. I turn her and ask her to move out which is met with more jumping and spooking. I calmly got out of the cart and clipped her lead on the halter I had underneath the bridle amd tried to walk her around a little, with the cart attatched. Polly was moving with me at a choppy walk, not liking things one bit. I could not walk her with the cart attatched as the shafts kept hitting me, tripping me, and I figured just not safe should she take off. So I stop, unhitch her, and ground drive her. We ground drove all over the property, Polly still spookng and bucking at everything, like branches on the ground, the air conditioner, trees, my voice. We finally got a few good turns and I figured I'de stop while I was ahead. On our way back to the barn, she stopped and starting freaking out because she saw the cart where I left it in the yard. I drove her to it and she sniffed it and relaxed. So we walked around it a few times, then went to get untacked.

I don't know why, when all of a sudden it's just her and I, she decides she's afraid of everything, doesn't like the cart, is afraid of me, and spooks at things that aren't there. So much for my trained driving horse to learn on! I'm not sure if I'm not hitching correctly, and the harness is pitching, if my breeching is not right, and the cart is hitting her, or what. I plan on ground driving the rest of the week until the weekend when I can really work with her. I wil call out my trainer again if need be. I am just so discouraged having spent so much time and money on this venture and not being able to do it.

Thank you for letting me vent.

Dan.


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## ksoomekh (Dec 12, 2012)

I can certainly understand why you are frustrated. Isn't it great that we have this forum with others interested in our driving projects? I am new to driving and have no suggestions. This might be the time when you really need the advice of your trainer

Good luck,

Karen


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## Renolizzie (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm just curious, Dan. I am just wondering if you get to take her out for walks or ground training of different sorts in between trying to drive her? If you do, is she spooky when you work with her without the harness on??


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## Minimor (Dec 13, 2012)

It sounds like she may just be too fresh. Is she kept in the barn or a small corral a lot, or is she out in a big paddock with room to run? If she has room--does she use it, or does she just stand around? Do you longe her before you start driving? If not, you might try that--longe her first and let her get the kinks out, then maybe she will settle down and drive nicely.

Is she getting much grain?

Some horses can stand around doing nothing for weeks and then behave perfectly when you hitch them up, others can't do that--they need to be worked down before they are ready to hitch up after some time off.

Something could be pinching her, but if the cart were running up and hitting her you would notice that. Ifbshebwere being punched by the harness I would expect her to act annoyed, or to be joking about what is on/behind her--I wouldn't really expect it to make her spook from things ahead of or around her, like the cart when she saw it 'over there'. From you description it died sound more like high spirits, or perhaps a combo of high spirits and a desire to give you a bad time.


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## Shari (Dec 13, 2012)

Are you using breeching? Did your trainer use Breeching? Some times if a trainer doesn't and then you do...., when the breeching comes in play, it can really freak a horse out.

Was she this spooky before she went to the trainers?


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## TMR (Dec 13, 2012)

Double check harness, cart and hitching first as something may not be right, but if everything is good then she's probably feeling your uneasiness. If you have checked everything and its good, then tell her to knock it off and put her to work. Get her in your hands between the reins and make her pay attention, meaning change in directions, change in pace whatever it takes to make her pay attention to you and not everything around her. She not allowed to think on her own. It may be that you are not being as assertive without your trainer there and she can tell and is trying to see what she can get away with. She may not have total trust that you will protect her and that will come with time and you being sure of yourself. Also, many well trained horses especially dressage trained can be that way, as they expect a certain feel in their mouth and when you don't give it they can act up because they don't understand. I have been driving for many years and drive prelim level with my own, but took a lesson with my trainer with her FEI level horse and let me tell you he did everything but run away with me until i learned how to drive him and even then it was still questionable. It sure made me realize I have a long way to go to really know how to drive properly. I felt like a total beginner and I have been driving for more than 10 years.






Don't be discouraged just think of this as a road bump and a learning experience, its the fun of driving as you learn something new every day.


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 13, 2012)

I know the feeling. If it is you, her, equipment--whatever--she does not handle it appropriately. A driving horse that likes to push buttons?? From my experience, I would cut my emotional and financial losses and pass her on. Just MHO. Not every horse is a good match for a person.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 15, 2012)

Marsha Cassada said:


> If it is you, her, equipment--whatever--she does not handle it appropriately. A driving horse that likes to push buttons?? From my experience, I would cut my emotional and financial losses and pass her on. Just MHO. Not every horse is a good match for a person.


If she was good for the trainer, I think I'd be doing an awful lot before I decided the horse wasn't a good driving horse and considered moving her on. It's far more likely that she's sensing her driver's uncertainty and reacting to the lack of guidance or confidence by acting up. Dan, have your trainer come back out and observe as I'm sure she'll be able to spot what's going on and help you sort it out.

Kudos to you, however, for doing EVERYTHING right in handling this. You had the sense to know when to back off before someone got hurt but at the same time kept your head and worked her through it and made sure you stopped at a good point. Way to go!

Leia


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## ~Dan (Dec 15, 2012)

Thank you all so much for your support and guidance, everyone. It is greatly appreciated. I am out here doing this "horse thing" all by myself, so it's easy to get overwhelmed when things don't go well. I am so happy that I have this forum to turn to in times like these.

Anyhow, back to driving, lol.

Ksoomehk, I completley agree!! I love this forum so much!

Renolizzie, we have worked before and walked down the road without issues and spooking. SHe was just on a ead, however, not sure if that had anything to do with it.

Minimor, I have tried to longe her in the past and I am met with resistance. I have tried everything I can think of to get her moving in the round pen, and nothing seems to work. She'll go around a few times, and then she'll stop, and nibble at the few blades of grass growing on the gravel drive where my round pen is. I usually free longe, as I am horribly uncordinated, so I am constanly getting tangled in the longe line. Now longeing my gelding is easy. All's I need to do is apply some pressure with my shoulder, and he will canter in circles. I guess he did not inherit his spit and vinegar from her (they are mother and son.) I will try to longe her again, however, I have done it before, my trainer can get her to move out, I can't seem to. She does not get much grain at all, a half cup of Nutrena Safechoice morning and night. I have seen the two horses running and playing many times before, otherwise she does not excercise on her own. She is out from 6 or 7 in the morning to about 9:30 at night, and only stalled at night.

According to my trainer, and to loosely qoute her "This mare is intelligent, she tests you, she wants to see what she can get away with, if you aren't in contact with her, she will run herself into a tree, she will walk serpentines, she is a very s**t or get off the pot type girl. Either you are in charge, or she is, there is no in between. Someone spent a lot of time training her." I could see Polly being one to give me issues, just because she knows she can get away with it.

Shari, I am using a breeching, but it is nothing new to her. If I recall correctly, and I'll have to look at a refernece picture, when I was using my trainers equipment, that too had a breeching. My new harnesses both have breeching. She was wearing it the last time the trainer was out, and gave minimal issues (first time out actually working in monthes, on a cold, snowy, windy day.) Polly was never spooky when the trainer was ever out. The first time the trainer hitched her she was being a bit of a jerk, but it was her first time being hitched and doing more than just eating in over 4 years. Otherwise she was very good, from them, until a few weeks ago.

TMR, I will for sure be checking to make sure that everything is adjusted and fitting right. I did come to find out today (which I will be posting about later on in this post) that pushing her ahead and through an "episode" seems to work. I feel like her "episodes" are more of her way of testing the waters with me. As the things that would "spook" her, were nothing new, and nothing that a well trained horse should spook at. I mean really, a broken branch on the ground? An air conditioner she has walked, trotted, driven past many many times? Looking back, I feel like her "spooking" was her just being a pain.

Thank you for your input, Marsha, and I think it is her just testing. As much as she is a pain with an occasional rancid temperament I would never sell her. She's like family to me, my little heart pony for sure. Hopefully we can get through this and grow closer.

Leia, I will for sure call my trainer, Mindy, out if this issue does not get cleared up. Thank you for the kind words, I certainly tried to handle it as best I could. Between my anxiety that usually comes with horses having "meltdowns" while being worked, either undersaddle or in harness (what a great combo right? Handler anxiety and a spooking horse, lol.) and my inexperience, I certainly tried my best.

Recent updates:

Friday I harnessed Polly, with just the bridle, back saddle, and crupper and ground drove with that. We couldn't work very long, but what we did do, wasn't the best, but was not nearly as bad as a few days prior. She was wary about the woods still (it was getting dark.) When I went to ground drive down the gas line in front of our property, she did "spook" at the ditch, not quite sure what that was about, there was nothing there. But we recovered and went on our way. A few minutes later she also spooked at a puddle in the driveway on the way home. I made her go up to it though and investigate, and she was over it. The last thing that bothered her was a large rock in the landscaping on our property. I'm not sure if the angle we were walking to it at caused the rock to be all of a sudden in her face or what, but that too I pushed her to investigate and once she did, she was over it.

Today, things went noticably better with few incidents of "spooking". We began in the front yard ground driving, circling around the trees and landscaping, working on turns and bending, and light bit pressure (she has a very sensitive mouth.) Once we had that down we headed out onto the road (I live on a rarely traveled road in the woods.) and worked mainly there. We began with just walking, doing basic commands, all of which she listened to quite well. We then moved up to a trot, and all went well. After turning around we headed back down the road, stopped to visit with my neighbors, and continued on our way, alternating between walking and trotting. After about a quarter mile, Polly decided that she was bothered by spray paint put on the road by National Fuel. We stopped because a car was approaching, and in case we had a freak out, I would prefer not risking her jumping in front of the car. So we wait. Then she began to pick something up along the ditch. The ditches are not cleared out in that particular area, so they are very overgrown. I could not see or hear a thing, but she most certainly could. She was not being irrational, just her head up with ears pricked as far forward as they could be. I pushed her forward any how, and could not get more than a few feet with out turning around, we tried a few times, but no dice. I decided to cave rather than push and get a bad out come. When we turned around, she sped up to a slight trot, which took me off gaurd, but I quickly regained my compsure and all was well again. We then proceeded towards home without an issue passing cars like they were not even there. We headed towards the field next to my home to do some more ground driving. I asked her to pick up a trot and as we were trotting (well, I was speed walking) I could feel her slowing down, and I did not want her to slow down until I asked her to so I continued to cluck in the rythm I wanted her to pick up, no response, so I snapped her side with the line, big mistake. Not quite sure if she was not paying attention and I startled her but she spooked, jumped to the side and spun around to look to at me. We settled down and continued going in big ovals around the field. She hopped once more for no reason but otherwise she did great. When we headed home, we walked up a dry ditch as a car was passing. As we were turning onto the road from the incline, her back feet began to dance on the pavement and her body began to sway, great another spook for no reason, mind you, the car had already passed, and we "spooked" when the cars rear bumper was a few feet in front of her (they were in the other lane of course). Okay, no big deal, bring it back down to being relaxed. I wanted to make sure that she was not bother by going up and down slight hills, so asked her to go back down and then back up the ditch. Going down, wonderful, going back up, "spook" as soon as we are on the road. My neighbor was moving something in his garadge, I feel like the sound may have bothered her. To end on a good note we just walked around the yard a few more times and we were done. Gave her a handful of carrots and some hay.

I felt much better today, so much more relaxed, and I feel like it helped us have a good day today. My trainer is so relaxed and has such a calm aura, I long to be like her with horses. I tried to channel that and I feel like it really helped. I am in the process of ordering several DVDs from Ozark about driving and hitching, I know it's not the same as actually doing, but it's something!!

Two questions I have regarding the harness is 1.) Should the girth on the back saddle be tight? I find if it's loose, then the harness slips all over the place, but at the same time I am not sure how tight it must be. 2.) Should the traces be loose, in a sense, or should they be taught?

Dan.


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## Renolizzie (Dec 15, 2012)

Dan, I feel you on the nerves and spooking. I have that problem myself. I have decided that it will take me time and effort to get my nerves under control in all circumstances. I have a really nice little gelding but we have had a few days where things are not going well and he has been spooked by dogs or cars or a flat piece of metal in the road. I am learning to stay calm and collected. Pull the little horse back together and keep going. It is all a learning experience, darn it. I guess if it was easy, everyone would be doing it and cars wouldn't have taken over the whole world

Glad to hear from you. Don't give up!!! Keep learning. It's so hard to be new at something but I can tell you love your horse. I love when Wiseguy are out and about and we are trotting along the road and working together beautifully. Makes it worth all the time and effort, for me.


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## Rhondaalaska (Dec 16, 2012)

My diva didnt lunge either for my daugter and I . We had to lunge her with me walking on her out side with a lead rope attached as my daugter had the lunge line and whip to command her. My rope was loose but there so diva wouldn't go in to my daugter. Just walk around the circle. She finely will lunge with out me on the outside. I hope you and your mare find away to get over this. Keep posting to let everyone know how you are doing. I am new to driving and havn't got to the point you are yet so I am learning from you as well.

Good luck and don't give up.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 16, 2012)

~Dan said:


> Two questions I have regarding the harness is 1.) Should the girth on the back saddle be tight? I find if it's loose, then the harness slips all over the place, but at the same time I am not sure how tight it must be. 2.) Should the traces be loose, in a sense, or should they be taut?


The girth should be just tight enough to keep things from slipping all over.



No, seriously! Lateral slippage is the only reason to tighten the girth on a harness saddle being used in conjunction with breeching, so tight enough to prevent slipping is "tight enough."

The traces are how you pull the cart, so they should be taut when the horse goes into draft and the shaft tips are at the end of the shoulder.

Leia


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## shalakominiatureshowhorses (Dec 21, 2012)

Hope everything will turn out all right. If im understanding correctly, she doesnt spook on the halter and lead, but on the harness? My boy had the same problem, we could walk everywhere and he wouldnt freak out, but for a long time we couldnt go outside the main pasture. As long as your confident and not fustrated, things will go much smoother!


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## Sandee (Dec 29, 2012)

Just curious was she "trained" as a show driving horse or "road/trail" horse? I had a big horse once that was superb in trail/obstacle class. However, outside of an arena in the "real" world she was scared to death on a trail. Big rocks, tall trees, etc. etc. were going to "eat her". My point is my horse was comfortable in the surroundings that she was trained for which was inside a fenced area. Once that fence was gone all her confidence left her. I was able to get her to listen to me after I realized what the real problem was and I became much better as "asking" her to respond to me. So maybe all you need is more confidence and time to work with her. It wouldn't hurt for the trainer to watch you drive and give some pointers.

P.S. Show horses also like more contact on the bit. No the lazy laid back floppy rein that happens to most of us when we first start driving.


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## Jetiki (Dec 30, 2012)

Make sure the blinders aren't rubbing or too close to her eyes on the bridle. That can get some horses aggravated and acting spooky.


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