# Percheron Stallion



## Loren&Rocky (Nov 24, 2005)

I am consitering breeding my Arabian mare, Velvet, to this Percheron stallion. He is 16.2 and 1,500 Lb. He is 14 years old and has only bred non Percherons except for this year. He has 2 PB Percheron foals due in June. (the mares are out side mares) Anyway, Henry is lighter than most Percheron stallions and that is why the Perch people don't like him much, but the light horse people do. I like him too and so does my vet. My vet said he would cross well with Velvet. She said that ALL of Henry's foals have wonderful personalitys. Even one of her assistants has 2 henry babies. One out of a QH mare and one out of a TB mare. So, I am thinking I want a Henry baby too. It would be a keeper foal as I have sold my "Hot" half Andalusian filly out of Velvet. I want a biger boned, taller quiet horse for my self. So, here are his pictures.


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 24, 2005)

and here is Velvet.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Nov 24, 2005)

Hmm that sure doesnt look like a 16.2 hand horse to me granted I am used to large horses 17 hand+ but even still the mare looks way taller then he does and she doesnt look that large either


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 24, 2005)

Ha Ha! That's funny! I will add another picture for you. I have seen this stallion twice and he looks 17+ in real life!

Velvet is only 14.3! Poor girl. Her last boyfriend was 17h!!










Is this better??


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## lilhorseladie (Nov 24, 2005)

What a beautiful match. That first picture of the stallion and the second of Velvet are gorgeous! I can't wait to see this baby.


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 24, 2005)

Not only do I love him AND he has a perfect manner and great personality, but he is only 10 miles away and they do on site AI AND his stud fee is only .....$400!!!





I don't see how I can loose! Also, when the foal is 4 and old enouigh to be ridden, Velvet will be 17. My son will be 8 and old enough to take over Velvet if he wants to. I will have my quiet trail horse and Loren can have the wild woman!!


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## Ferrah (Nov 24, 2005)

I don't see how you could go wrong with that cross. Any resulting foal would be a wonderful ride!


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## alphahorses (Nov 25, 2005)

I used to ride a Percheron mare, and you really just can't beat them for disposition.

A woman who stabled at the same barn with me had a 1/2 arabian 1/2 percheron mare who inherited the substance and quiet disposition of the percheron and the elegance of the Arabian. It was a great cross. Had I kept my Percheron, I would have considered breeding her to an Arabian.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 25, 2005)

No, not me, not with a mare like that not ever, no. OK????





Why on earth would you not put her to a really good Arabian? Why would you put her to a second rate Perch?? Oh Dear, NO!!!! I am all of a quiver here, I can tell you. If you do not want to breed Arabs from that mare send her over here and I'll go back to doing it.

Oh, and what could you lose??

You could lose the mare, that's what.

What size are his foals is the ONLY question I would ask.

It has nothing to do with his height, by the way, I have done far greater height differences than that.

Sorry, he does nothing for me, and the mare gives me shivers she is so nice.

If you have to cross her with another breed, and it _has_ to be a heavyweight, pick one that is the very epitome of everything he should be.

Please


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 25, 2005)

rabbitsfizz said:


> No, not me, not with a mare like that not ever, no.Â  OK????
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Why on earth would you not put her to a really good Arabian?*

Because the foal is for me, not for sale and I donâ€™t want another hot horse. I also want something with more bone and substance, wide chest and round croup. AND there are NO good Arabian stallion in my area and I would rather not spend a small fortune on AI for a foal I could not sell for the cost of the AI + Stud fee. I can always breed Velvet to a PB Arabian many times, but I donâ€™t want to do it now.

*Why would you put her to a second rate Perch??*

Because he is a light body type for a Perch, very local, I have met him a few times and I LOVE his personality, I have seen several of his foals, (in person and in pictures) and they are wonderful. Some are doing well in the show ring and some are doing well in hunter paces.

*What size are his foals is the ONLY question I would ask.*I asked that same question, as I worry about that too. The owner showed me pictures of some of his half Arabian foals and said they were small like Velvet. One was only 14.1h. They were beautiful foals! They looked like Cleveland Bays with pretty heads. I also talked to my vet about it. She just happens to know Henry (The stud) and said that he would be a good cross for Velvet. She loves Henryâ€™s personality and the fact that he is a light Perch makes him a good cross with lighter mares. My vetâ€™s assistant has 2 Henry foals. One is out of a QH mare and the other out of a TB mare. Both are under saddle and very brave, obedient, quiet and willing as well as forward. Everything I want in my next horse.

*You could lose the mare*

No matter what, I could loose my mare. Birthing is a risk in itâ€™s self.

*If you do not want to breed Arabs from that mare send her over here and I'll go back to doing it.*

No, you canâ€™t have her.

*If you have to cross her with another breed, and it has to be a heavyweight, pick one that is the very epitome of everything he should be.*

I would LOVE to do that, but there is NOTHING local and I donâ€™t want to ship AI again. I have done it 3 times, and I would rather not. The 3rd time resulted in me running out of money and still having no foal.

I could buy a foal, but there are few that I could afford that I would even consider here in NH and I would end up paying $1,000 just to have the foal shipped out to me from where ever. I would have not seen the parents of the foal, or the foal itâ€™s self. At least with Henry and breeding Velvet, I have a good idea of what I am going to get.






Thanks for the input though.

And NO you still canâ€™t have Velvet!


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## Sue_C. (Nov 25, 2005)

*No*, I would not do it either... I know of one gelding that is the reason why not.



His sire is the most awsomely beautiful Arabian I have seen in a long time, and his dam is a very nice, heavy draft-cross. (not even as large as this Perch stallion you show here) Well, honey, let me tell you...all the cards ended up in the wrong place with this mis-matched pair, and the same could happen you you.



There are worse things than spending more money, and looking further down the road.





This gelding has the draft head, arab neck, draft shoulders, very large, sprung ribs, and arab butt. The legs go forever, but the knees and hocks are HUGE...and out-of-place. then..you have those huge clunky draft feet, dangling on the ends on arab pasturns. Plus...the thing's an idiot, and can't be trained...8 years old and you can barely lead it; _nothing_ like either of it's parents. Go figure.





OH please...don't do this...


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 25, 2005)

I am sure I didn't see every foal, but he has sired 8 foal crops and several of them were at the farm where Henry was. Also, the owner pulled out a BIG photo album of his get. I didn't see any de-formed looking horses in the bunch. All were very nice and in proportion. IF I do breed Velvet to him, I will take what ever I get and deal with it. I am not worried. I am not breeding her for a money horse, I am breeding her for a personal horse. I am not taking anything away from Velvet either. She can always be bred to "Mister Perfect" later on down the road. Velvet is 12 so it is not like if I breed her to Henry, that's it, I can't breed her ever again to anything else. I am not into breeding a million horses or having foals for sale. I just want a Velvet baby replacement for my self. If I were breeding for a money horse I would not even glance at Henry. If I bred Velvet to him, and it was a junker, well, that's life and I would deal with it. I won't be making a final decision until June or July anway, so if something better comes up by then, well good.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Nov 25, 2005)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Why would you put her to a second rate Perch??If you have to cross her with another breed, and it _has_ to be a heavyweight, pick one that is the very epitome of everything he should be.
> 
> Please
> 
> ...


I guess that is it he really just doesnt look like i would expect a 17 hand perch to look - not in size, weight or bone

But of course it is your horse and with any cross especially mixing breeds be it dogs horses or whatever it can go great and get a wonderful cross or you can get pieces of each that really dont and shouldnt go togther

but good luck with whatever you decide


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## Miss_Fortune (Nov 25, 2005)

WOW I didnt know you lived in NH! Thats awesome so do I.

Anyway back to the topic. I think if your looking for a trail horse for you, go for it. Of course you could lose the mare but thats a risk anytime you have a pregnant mare. All I can say is good luck. From what you said you want for a horse this looks like a good enough pair to me.


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## ~Palomino~ (Nov 25, 2005)

NOPE-NOT GOING TO WORK! You can just send her my way-its not going to work...lol....j/k

I LOVE arabs! There is pretty stallion just close to me and WHAT a Beauty he is!

The site isnt working right now or I would show it to you!

Gage


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## _minihorses4ever_ (Nov 25, 2005)

Sounds like you have done all your research, and have found a stallion you really like! I say, GO FOR IT! They both are very pretty, I can't wait to see the resulting foal! It outta be something very cute!


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 25, 2005)

~Palomino~ said:


> NOPE-NOT GOING TO WORK!  You can just send her my way-its not going to work...lol....j/k
> I LOVE arabs!  There is  pretty stallion just close to me and WHAT a Beauty he is!
> 
> The site isnt working right now or I would show it to you!
> ...



OK, what's your address. I'll ship her out to you!


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 25, 2005)

Hey,no fair, I have first dibs!!!


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 25, 2005)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Hey,no fair, I have first dibs!!!
> 506558[/snapback]
> ​


That's right, you did! Well, I better get a big stamp on her!!


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## The Dynamic Duo (Nov 25, 2005)

at the farm i go to, mr/mario has a feind named francisco and he has a pure arabian stud, a white one too!

i wnat dibs on her too!!!


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## Sun Runner Stables (Nov 25, 2005)

I love crosses, and have seen lots more good then bad. Living in warmblood central, (South FL)

I would also pick a different stud for me, but then again, I have the access! Chances are, you will get what you are thinking off IMO.

If his other foals look decent, and she has had good looking foals herself, typically the cards fall your way in my experience.

I have had a few bad crosses, but in those cases, one of the parents was unproven, (normally the mare) and would prove in later foals to simply be an inferior producer.

I would say go for it, and enjoy a pretty baby next year, just post pic's for us to drool over.

I am not a purebred arab fan myself, having ridden to many inbred crazy one's left over from the breeding boom from the 80's, (Stop giving me dirty looks Fizz!




) but I Love arab crosses, and go out of my way to have them for my show/lesson ponies/horses. Nothing is smarter, prettier, or more versitial! IMO.

*remember to promise pictures* We all love pictures!!


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## Jenn (Nov 25, 2005)

I'm with Rabbitsfizz on this one ... I just wouldn't do it.

I'm not a fan of breeding horses just because you have a mare and want another horse. In the end, it's FAR cheaper to buy a horse that is already everything you want. And if you're wanting a warmblood-type horse, there are an abundance of them out there - many of them Percheron crosses. And they can be had cheap - nice young horses going for just a few hundred dollars in many areas.

In any case, I wouldn't choose that stallion. I'm not a fan. I don't see much there to commend him. If he were mine, I would have gelded him as a yearling. Your mare deserves MUCH better.


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## ~Palomino~ (Nov 25, 2005)

Loren&Rocky said:


> ~Palomino~ said:
> 
> 
> > NOPE-NOT GOING TO WORK!Â  You can just send her my way-its not going to work...lol....j/k
> ...


REALLY



.....IN MY DREAMS LOL!

Fizz, Sorry your just to far away....lol.....she can only travle as far as here!

Gage


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 26, 2005)

Nonsense, it doesn't cost much more to transport a big horse than a Mini!! AND I have the room!!!

Nady na na


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 26, 2005)

Velvet will be a word travler by the time she gets around to all of you!!


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## Firefall (Nov 26, 2005)

Ok I'm confused. How come you can breed such a big stallion like that to her and she can deliver safely? With minis its a big no no, why? What is the difference?

Now get some crayons out and draw me a picture...............


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 26, 2005)

Firefall said:


> Ok I'm confused. How come you can breed such a big stallion like that to her and she can deliver safely? With minis its a big no no, why? What is the difference?
> Now get some crayons out and draw me a picture...............
> 
> 507094[/snapback]
> ​



I don't know the answer to that exactly, but I think a big horse is bigger everywhere, inside and out. So, you can get away with breeding a big stallion to a smaller mare that way. People breed horse stallions to ponies all the time to get sport ponies.

The 2 babies I have out of Velvet (14.3h)are sired by a 17h Andalusian. She took a little longer to have her second one than the first, but both were normal births.


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## Sue_C. (Nov 26, 2005)

Another thing to remember, is that although HE might not be "big and burly", _genetically_, he could throw huge foals. His foal's body mass is most likely going to be much bigger than a warmbloods, no matter the _height_ of either.


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## RAPfrosty (Nov 26, 2005)

Like people have been saying, I'm sure there are atleast some extra risks in this breeding but then again, like you said theres always a risk. Either way, they are both drop dead GORGEOUS






and I'm sure if you do decide to breed them you will have one good looking baby!


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## Bess Kelly (Nov 26, 2005)

I REALLY like your mare, REALLY !!! A lovely horse and I'm an Arab perspm/

Now, if YOU are happy iwth that stallion, that's your call. He is not what I would consider comparable to your mare, quality wise. BUT, I'd not outcross that mare if she were mine -- I'd stay arab.





Can I get in line to own her?????


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 26, 2005)

Bess Kelly said:


> I REALLY like your mare, REALLY !!!  A lovely horse and I'm an Arab perspm/
> Now, if YOU are happy iwth that stallion, that's your call.  He is not what I would consider comparable to your mare, quality wise.    BUT, I'd not outcross that mare if she were mine -- I'd stay arab.
> 
> 
> ...



Well, if there were ANY half way decent Arabian stallions here I would breed her to one, but I have not found one yet. Also, for a "keeper" horse, I personally want a cross.

Take a number. I think you are number 4 in line to own her but I think I could not possibly part with her!!


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## Leeana (Nov 26, 2005)

I would say go for it.

You seem to already have your mind well made up, and nothing someone says that you dont even know is going to change your mind. When you spend all that money for something and then get told 'no, dont do that' ...you seem to put them aside. I been there. I think you will be just fine though. We had a big half belgian a couple years ago bred to a QH mare just over 14 hands and she did fine. Dad had a friend of his bring a stud to our mare and we bred it for him and got it up to a yearling and sold it to him ..so it was all him. We knew our mare had no trouble delivering babies in the past and had expirence so we had faith.

Its a chance you must take ....go for it. But then you dont have to listen to me ..do whatever you want, no pressure.

Leeana


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## Sonya (Nov 27, 2005)

Both horses are beautiful. It sounds like you researched everything. I think the baby will be beautiful and I can't wait to see pics.


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## FairytailGlennMinis (Nov 27, 2005)

You asked for opinions and I think that is great. First off, I LOVE your mare!!! I love the look of nice arabs, but have never really liked to ride them--I like more substance for a riding horse, myself. I do love a lot of the arab crosses and have seen quite a few VERY nice arab/draft crosses as well as a few draft cross flops. That said, I don't like that stud--he doesn't look balanced to me at all and pieces of him look like he is a badly put together puzzle with parts from different horses that don't match. I think if you are working with an experienced and knowledgable vet and she says this particular mare is okay for breeding a warmblood then it is yours alone to decide to trust and go with that or not. I can just picture a draft cross from this mare...but I wouldn't use that particular stallion. Your mare is awsome quality and the stallion is just not up to her level. I love percherons dearly...and that is NOT a good example of one. If you want a perch/arab cross I think that is great--but I just don't like that one as the stud. I had a perch cross and a clyde in my therapeutic riding program and I wouldn't have given up my perch for all the tea in china. He is now retired and still totes little kids around--bareback, no bridle, just him and his charges.

Good luck no matter what you decide--I can't see anything coming from that mare not being gorgeous.

-Amy


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## Jill (Nov 27, 2005)

I have to agree with what some of the others here have said.

Your mare is gorgeous! Simply stunning. That stallion is "cute" but he doesn't look like a breeding quality animal. I just wouldn't use him on that exquisite mare of yours, both because he doesn't equal her quality and also because he is so big boned and stocky.


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## runamuk (Nov 27, 2005)

I haven't read all the replies......but one of the farms I used to work at stood several arab stallions and there was a gentleman who brought his percheron mares to one of the stallions year after year....the cross produced wonderful sporthorses ...that honestly sold for more than alot of the purebreds......I think your mare would cross nicely with a percheron and the result is typically pretty darn nice...


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## Leeana (Nov 27, 2005)

He looks pretty promising to me. I mean its not like she is wanting a NATIONAL CHAMPION out of these two. Just something for trail, i think she has a pretty good pare there. Its going to have size with refinement. I'd love to have that colt.

Leeana


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## crponies (Nov 27, 2005)

This cross reminds me of what many PMU ranches do. Have you checked into getting a PMU foal?


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## Ferrah (Nov 27, 2005)

You know I still think this cross could go positively for you, but as with crossbreeding in any animal you could find all the parts in the wrong spot. As long as you are willing to deal with whatever you get, I say go for it.

As said above I would also try some PMU farms, many of them do these draft horse crosses. And they sell horses at weaning age so you can still raise one from a young age so it turns out the way you like.


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## Sue_C. (Nov 27, 2005)

> one of the farms I used to work at stood several arab stallions and there was a gentleman who brought his percheron mares to one of the stallions year after year....the cross produced wonderful sporthorses ...that honestly sold for more than alot of the purebreds......I think your mare would cross nicely with a percheron and the result is typically pretty darn nice...


Thing is, the drafts were the mares...no inordinate risk there.



> but as with crossbreeding in any animal you could find all the parts in the wrong spot.


Yep.


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## disneyhorse (Nov 27, 2005)

I don't care for that particular stallion (and I LOVE LOVE LOVE Percherons... one of my favorite breeds) and I do NOT think he is particularly fine-boned for a Perch either.

Here is what I would consider a MODERN type Percheron, they are very upright and leggy with a trim barrel and a lot of action (your guy you like is a FARM type, heavy and meant for farm work not show hitches) this stallion is owned by the famed Pennwood Percheron Farm (I love their horses):







compare next to your prospect:






That said, I think a modern type stallion would cross WAY better on an Arab. Most draft horses have low stud fees of about $500 for even top show quality, and almost all draft will ship for AI.

My friend recently bought a percheron mare (to cross with her Andalusian stallion for a dressage/sport horse) from a farm here in CA. They have a modern type percheron he crosses with Thoroughbred mares.

The thing you have to remember is that the foal will take more after the dam's type, so a draft mare bred to a light horse stallion will produce a heavier boned baby than a light horse mare bred to a draft stallion.

Because your mare is an Arab and pretty refined, I would suggest searching for a more Modern percheron stallion, that is my only suggestion. I would have no hesitations in breeding a light horse mare to a draft horse stallion.

My opinion only!

Andrea


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## MooseLMJAsh (Nov 29, 2005)

i personally don't like him. he's not "percheron" enough....as the post says above.... i mean, we all know perchies are my fav.....and he just looks so much smaller than moose i don't know why. drafts stud fees are cheaper!!!

you could adopt a pmu registered perchie from canada!!





and as always, i love velvet


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## luvmycritters (Nov 29, 2005)

Well - obviously that mare of yours is just stunning! Henry looks like an ok boy too, not into the conformation of Percherons though. What ever you decide - good luck!! Lori


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 29, 2005)

You guys are funny!! I mean that in a good way.





I am glad you are all so fond of Velvet. She if far from the perfect example of a proper Arabian horse her self. I actually like that Henry is not a monster Perch. I think that is why other light breed mare owners like him too. There are a lot of pluses to the cross, IF I were to do it at all. Like I said before, I have met in a few times and he has THE PERFECT personality and manners. He is very athletic and has a small head, for a perch. He is only about 10 miles away and has a nice low stud fee. I want a Velvet baby for my own personal horse and that is that. I may find something better between now and when ever I decide to breed her again, but Henry fits MY personal bill.

I looked into the PMU foals and although most are good and some even registered, they have high adoption fees and want to do a farm check before they place a horse with a new owner. That is fine and all, but I doubt my place would pass. I have 3 1/2 sided in and out buildings and 2 strands of electric tape. From what I have been told, this is not enough for the places around here that adopt them out. I have asked 2 different places and they both want a "Real Barn" and better fencing.



My situation works well for my horses, but would not be good enough for these horses that need homes desperately.





Thanks guys. I will let you know what I do when ever that is.

Shellie


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## Loren&Rocky (Nov 29, 2005)

Here is Velvet's ped, if anyong is interested.


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## MooseLMJAsh (Nov 29, 2005)

check out pmufoaladoption.org (i think that's the site). they don't do a some inspection...you just fill out an application and answer some questions.....i didn't think the prices were too high.....everyone pays the same amount for shipping...then once everyone is shipped they do refund people money....depends on shipping destination and how many in load and how far, etc....at least that's how it was with moose...i think i got back close to 1/2 the shipping cost.


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## Jenn (Nov 30, 2005)

Sorry you are having issues getting a foal. There used to be a great adoption program out there called Foal Quest (pmufoalquest.com), but they recently stopped operating because so many PMU farms are being closed. Foal Quest was one of only two NAERIC approved foal adoption programs.

Frankly, "PMU adoption" sites are a dime a dozen and many aren't in it for the right reasons.

Personally, I'm not a fan of stalling horses indoors - mine only have run-in shelters and I believe I am the most northern person on this forum (northern Alberta, Canada). My big horses, and the many miniatures in this area, do just fine outdoors.


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## tagalong (Nov 30, 2005)

*disneyhorse* is indeed wise. That Henry - plain and simple - should not BE a stallion. A stallion should epitomize the best qualities of his breed and Henry is a second rate Percheron... who would be a gelding and not even considered for a hitch career if my friends who breed them had him. I agree with *disney* that he does not look "light"....

The Pennwood stallion that *disney* showed you is what a Percheron stud SHOULD look like....

My vote? No. You have no guarantee what disposition a foal will have.... why not go out and buy the "perfect horse" instead of trying to create one?? At least then you can have a choice of looks, size, temperament etc. ...


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 30, 2005)

You see Balalaika- a few stages back in her pedigree?? That has to be _the_ most beautiful mare I have a ever seen- a head like a song!!

Your mare is well bred and beautiful- I'd put her to a really good Jack Donkey and get yourself a Mule people dream of!! It was something I always meant to do, and never did!!


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