# question on owners right



## mini me (Aug 5, 2005)

Hi, I post not much. I read alot and learn alot.

My question is this if someone calls SPCA on

you about your horses said that you are not

feeding them but, you are feeding them and you

are slowly increaseing their feed because they

are yearlings and 2 year old draft horse. Who go

through growth splirts when they look good then

skinny then good then skinny. They tell you

have only 30 days to put on 200 pound. What

rights do someone have and how can someone

keep from lossing their horses. I know you all

talk about rescueing horse how about the owner

who are trying to keep up with the growth splirt.

Do they just lose their horses or what. What

can someone do to help themselves ?

thank you

mini me


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## Jill (Aug 5, 2005)

I can't imagine being in the situation. It would be such a night mare.

I know that young horses go through spurts, and I know that not everyone knows how to recognize when a horse is getting almost too thin before the horse is too thin...

What I would suggest to someone facing this is to for sure start feeding more. Keep a journal of what you feed, how much, and when. Also, keep receipts for feed and hay. Maybe even take some pictures of the horses now with weight tape showing how they are weighing now to compare to later.


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## Jill (Aug 5, 2005)

ALSO, make sure they are current on de-wormings. You can order Ivermectin so cheaply now, about $4/tube (which will do 3-4 minis or more if they are small...), from Jeffers Equine. And be sure their feet are trimmed. If they have worms, then you're feeding worms not horses and if their feet look neglected, it will not speak well to how well the horses are cared for /maintained.


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## mountain_waif (Aug 5, 2005)

....


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## OhHorsePee (Aug 5, 2005)

Vet is a must. If he checks them and finds them to be healthy then you have no worries. Keep a journal on each horse re: what vet said, how much they are being fed, CLEAN water tanks, wormed, farrier, What type even of feed and wormer you are using. If you are showing improvement and get your vet involved then you stand a chance. I would also have him put down how much weight he (your vet) wants added to them in thirty days. 200# seems like a lot in a short amount of time.

My sis ended up with one that was sold at a dispersal sale that needed 50+ ponds put on her. This is Pacific Baileys grand daughter (has her papers even). She has her all but 100 % and people are sceptical because she has her at such a low price. ANYWAY, they could not afford to feed their horses. All registered QH's and one stallion that showed. If money is they issue then please do make sure they go to a good home.

Thanks

Fran


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## fourhorses (Aug 7, 2005)

A letter and/or phone call from your vet to the SPCA should be sufficent but be prepared for the SPCA to continue to follow up with you until they are satisfied with the progress of the horses. That's their job and it is not about YOU.......it's about the horses. Always keep that in mind!

You can look at the situation 2 ways.......someone may have been genuinely concerned about the condition of the horses. Gangly youth is one thing but extreme thin condition is another OR, depending on your area, the local investigators may not be well educated in the care of equines and aren't aware of growth spurts. 200#'s is a lot of weight to gain in 30 days and, in the best interest if the horses, you must have a vet help with that. Without his opinion it can cause more harm than good.

Vet records are a responsible pet/horse owner's best defense.


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## scout (Aug 7, 2005)

I would have a vet out. Get a statement from your vet sent directly to SPCA stating the condition of the horses, any vaccinations that they are current on, his/her opinion on their weight, and his/her recomendations for their care. This will should help you if you find your self in court to keep these animals. Babies can be difficult to put weight on and keep it there, and they might not be happy enough with there appearance. Also take a lot of pictures of them, preferably with a camera that dates them (but I'd aviod digital as they may argue that the photos might have been altered.)

I wish you the best of luck with the situation.


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## Hosscrazy (Aug 11, 2005)

Definitely get your vet involved. There were some people on my Cushings list who were having issues with well-meaning people, who turned them in for animal "neglect". What they did not realize is that there were major health issues involved, and that not only was the owner doing everything possible to care for the horse, but there was a whole team of vet-farrier-nutritionist helping the owner. Make sure you keep all your receipts, documentations, and maybe start taking pictures of the horse to prove that he/she is gradually putting weight on.


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## rabbitsfizz (Aug 15, 2005)

I would LOVE to know how the SPCA- who on other occasions have stated that so long as starving animals have water,and their is feed on the property they are powerless, can hassle and bully you in this way. Getting a Vet involved is a first step- going to see a Lawyer (there are many who do Pro Bono {for free} work) is a good second. I see this all the time over here- people who are likely to be worried by the uniform and are already doing their best for their animals are pursued and bullied. People who need a good kick up the b*tt are allowed to walk away!! If it looks good in the Newspaper, or the person will not fight back, in goes the boot!! Cynical, YOU BET!!!!!!


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## mini me (Aug 15, 2005)

HI, thank you everybody who posted to my message. I have been running

around trying to keep my horses. Here is the story I was working with my husband

digging some basements. I came home after work and their was a note on

my door said to call my local spca she wanted to talk about the my horses

and my dogs need shade. I have 3 dogs in a pen with 3 dog houses which I

thought was right for them . When I call the person I was to talk to

was not there I had to call back. When I call back and talked to the person

all she wanted to talk about is my 3 clydesdales not any outher horses or dogs.

She said I need to put on 200 pound on them in 30 days and if I was not

able to do it she knew someone who is more then willing to take them and they

have 50 ac. for them. I told her I was not getting rid of my horses.She said she was willing to work with me so I call a friend who foaled out my mare last yr.

She and my farrier came out. All they can say is I need to get rid of my mini's , pony's , morgan and to keep my 3 drafts. This will get the spca to leave me alone. My friends also said to put out round bale of hays out all the time now and I also now feed them grain 3 times a day. They have water all the time. The spca lady called my preg mare fat . First clue she did know what she was looking at.My friends looked at her and said she is preg. My vet knows what is going on. I also

went to my feed store and talked to another person who knows draft horse about

this and he came out and looked at them and said they look good. If I have to go to court about this he said call him . Also my friend was call the spca last Monday

I haven't talked to her and the so concern scpa lady hasn't called me but someone

is driving bye everyday at different hours. The spca lady said she was going

to be driving bye if she was working or off work. I feel like a crimanal and I am

doing everything to put weight on the 3 horses. I love all of my animals and thank god my kid are not here right now but so will be then I will have to tell them we

could lose are animals. Because of some pain in the butt person. I wish I knew

who did this to us. I have been afraid to leave my farm. I hate to feel this way

but I want to move somewhere out west I live on a 56 ac. farm.

Sorry so long I just need to vent alittle.

thank you again

mini me


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## SunQuest (Aug 15, 2005)

Unfortunately, it appears that the spca in Deleware can try to take action against you. I looked up the laws in Deleware, and they DON'T protect the owner. It becomes the spca opinion vs the animal owners, and the laws are vague as to what is considered unecessary pain and suffering! You really need to contact an attorney and get help to protect yourself!!!!

Here is a link to what I found. You will be looking at Title 11, Chapter 5, Subchapter7, Section 1325 of the Deleware code that is on the Deleware official site. I am sure there is more burried in the codes, but this is the part that defines what is neglect.... And it is so clear that it is easily a "he said/she said" situation.

http://www.delcode.state.de.us/title11/c00....htm#P269_19296

The parts of the section that greatly bother me are:



> (3) "Cruel neglect" includes neglect of an animal, which is under the care and control of the neglector, whereby pain or suffering is caused to the animal or abandonment of any domesticated animal by its owner or custodian. By way of example, cruel neglect shall also include allowing an animal to live in unsanitary conditions, such as keeping an animal where the animal's own excrement is not removed from the animal's living area and/or other living conditions which are injurious to the animal's health.
> (4) "Cruelty to animals" includes mistreatment of any animal or neglect of any animal under the care and control of the neglector, whereby unnecessary or unjustifiable physical pain or suffering is caused. By way of example this includes: Unjustifiable beating of an animal; overworking an animal; tormenting an animal; abandonment of an animal; failure to feed properly or give proper shelter or veterinary care to an animal.
> 
> (8) "Proper feed" includes providing each animal with daily food and water of sufficient quality and quantity to prevent unnecessary or unjustifiable physical pain or suffering by the animal.
> ...


If this is how the state is defining cruelty, then it is very much open to personal opinions and since the spca person doesn't know diddly and can't even tell when a horse is pregnant, and since the spca person would likely be believed over you in court as that person would be considered a "professional", well what I would do is get legal council NOW! Better to protect yourself by giving an attorney all your facts and personaly references which include your vet and farrier and feed person and those that specialize in draft horses.

Hoping that it all works out for you! Keep us posted!

(Editted to fix link)


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Aug 17, 2005)

I would imagine that even if open to debate.. if you have not only your vet but perhaps a 2nd vet as well come look at your horses that was willing to write a letter for you or testify for you that would greatly help your situation.

As a side note whenever I get a rescue or a very thin horse I call Animal Control and let them know (since I do live where all the horses can be seen from the road) that I Have a rescue horse in that looks pretty bad that has really worked for me.


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