# Judge is also a steward at a show



## Norah (May 27, 2013)

Hello,

I saw some things at a show this weekend and wondered if it was OK . The Judge was also measuring the horses. I thiught the Judge was never suppose to see the name of the farm , and owner of the horses he was judging. This was a rated show or advertized as one by ASPCAMHR

also can an ASP horse be shown with a classic ASPC horse ? and can classics be shown as moderns ? a foal from an ASC horse was in a modern class the foal s Dam is an ASP and the sire is an AMHR ... am I missing something here ? someone educate me please , because things seem like they keep changing here .

thank you so much


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## Relic (May 28, 2013)

l wouldn't think that's allowed especially at a sanctioned show a fun show maybe but even then how so unfair to get hands on and who's who with the horses showing in the classes being judged by that same person later on. A judge is a judge a steward is a steward 2 separate people doing 2 separate jobs...that should cancel all points earned for the whole show with the registry.


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## Norah (May 28, 2013)

I thought so . In 2012 I organised an international approved show with ASPC AMHR . I followed the rules Cathy instructed me to . Finding the jury the proper way , and paying for them all was a huge expense for me , I flew people in from USA , and Ireland , and they did a fantastic job, the show was fair . I had 1 judge , 1 steward , 2 separate measures , one for writing and overseeing the measurements , and a gait keeper .This year the club went with another judge who was the stuard, the measurer , and I am sure the manager as well, mixed classes with big and small horses , it sounds like it was a very unfair show , and again putting a large ASPC horse in AMHR classes so his flashiness would get that trophie.Tell me how an ASPC horse can win both AMHR and ASPC classes. This is brutally unfair to the others showing , but because the rule books are not in German the showers don't know this is not right , only the club president , his wife and the judge know this is wrong ...how shameful that this man represents ASPC, and continues to short change the. Non English speaking showers .


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## minimomNC (May 28, 2013)

This is why at shows that do both AMHA and AMHR the same weekend, the AMHR show is always first. They do have a rule that states the judge or judges can not see the horses before they show. So they have to show AMHR first. For the same reason, in a sanctioned AMHR show, the judge can steward can not be the same person and sure can't be the show manager.


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## Norah (May 29, 2013)

When Renee judged last year and I was getting program's and class lists we made sure ONLY the horses name was on the list . She told us it was completely against the rules to have the names of the barn or owners in her possession. She also stayed completely separate from the exhibitors ....she was the official judge and conducted herself in that manor . The same club is doing things completely different this year at the approved show and people are telling me that it's funny that the judge was min gelding with people and measuring , and putting large horses in small classes.


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## SampleMM (May 30, 2013)

minimomNC said:


> This is why at shows that do both AMHA and AMHR the same weekend, the AMHR show is always first. They do have a rule that states the judge or judges can not see the horses before they show. So they have to show AMHR first. For the same reason, in a sanctioned AMHR show, the judge can steward can not be the same person and sure can't be the show manager.


Thank you for explaining this. I always wondered why the AMHA shows were on the second day!


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## muffntuf (May 30, 2013)

So was this an unsanctioned show then? If so, no rules from ASPC apply.


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## Norah (May 31, 2013)

It was advertised as an AMHRASPC rated show


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## minimomNC (May 31, 2013)

If this was the Swiss Breeders International show, it was approved for AMHR only. The judge can not measure the horses, against AMHR rules. If they had shetland classes, they were just having them because again, it was approved for AMHR only. So what they did with shetlands can be anything. But if the judge saw the horses before the show started then they are in direct violation of AMHR rules.

A. A Licensed Judge shall not be an exhibitor, rider,

driver, Steward, or manager at any show at which he is

officiating, whether or not the classes in which he officiates

are conducted under ASPC/AMHR/ASPR rules.

Q. A Judge may not visit the horses’ stall area, witness the

measuring of animals, inspect, or discuss any horse entered

in the show before the judging, nor shall a Judge

review the show program until after the judging has

been completed. Prior to the judging, however, each

Judge shall be furnished with a schedule of events by

the show management.


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## muffntuf (May 31, 2013)

Approved May 25-26 2nd Swiss-Breeders Internat'l Show CH-8572 Berg Axel Muller 0041-79-252-4964 AMHR

was approved as AMHR only - that is on the registry website - but the original poster did not say it was this show.


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## Barnmother (Jun 4, 2013)

We are about to attend two shows this summer the steward at the first show is a judge at the second. Somehow that doesn't seem really fair either! Both shows are AMHR.


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## Karen S (Jun 6, 2013)

Barnmother,

There are several stewards within the ASPC/AMHR that hold both a Stewards Card and a Judges Card which is perfectly ok. These are two separate shows and most of these Steward/Judges combination see lots of horses. I can tell you that unless you are very well known and walk into a show ring 99.9% of the

time they don't remember from one show to the next what horses are there. Lets give these people the respect they deserve lots of time and training is involved to become a Steward and Judge. You will see lots of shows hire and husband/wife team....one is the Steward the other is the Judge to save money.

Karen


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