# The IDEAL Halter stance...



## PAS Hercules (Jan 19, 2009)

I was hoping that some of you savy Halter exhibitors would share pictures of their Mini's showing the ideal Halter stance  Puleeze


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## minih (Jan 19, 2009)

Don't know how savy we are but here a couple of pics of our horses that I think are nice shots. Even when you think you are set up perfect for your horse sometimes the judge has a different opinion. During a show before we have been asked to move our horses feet back or forward....? Ultimately you are trying to set your horse up to bring out the best in that horse for the judge to see.

Lita at Nationals


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## Devon (Jan 19, 2009)

minih said:


> Don't know how savy we are but here a couple of pics of our horses that I think are nice shots. Even when you think you are set up perfect for your horse sometimes the judge has a different opinion. During a show before we have been asked to move our horses feet back or forward....? Ultimately you are trying to set your horse up to bring out the best in that horse for the judge to see. Lita at Nationals


Lita is so gorgeous





I Agree here are a few I have.

Ideally I would like to see his neck less outward and more "hooked" he wasn't a huge "baiter" which made it difficult for me to get his neck excentuated.






While I did show her alot, I chose a fuzzy photo because this is how I like her . She was so preoccupied with her foal this year I was lucky to have her still for a minute, really excited for next year. What I like about her stance here is you can see she is perfectly straight and I didn't move her leg's around one bit to achieve this I really love this part of Fashion. I like how her neck isn't right straight out like a pencil but slightly hooked I'd love to see her ears up and her head out a tiny bit to excentuate her throatlatch. Her topline looks smooth here and you can see her nice tail set which I tapped just mid back to "set".


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## minih (Jan 19, 2009)

> Lita is so gorgeous wub.gif


Thank you, we think she is something special. I am looking forward to getting the winter hair off of her this spring and seeing how she matured to a two year old this year.


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## Jill (Jan 19, 2009)

This horse, *Erica's Echos of My Destiny (HOF)*, co-owed by myself and Erica Killion has had a very successful halter career. He is National Champion in Amateur Halter (huge class), a many many time Champion and Grand Champion with over 50 first place halter wins. He also has his Halter Hall of Fame. This past year, he broadened is show record to include driving and won National Grand Champion, WCP 32"-24" at the 2008 AMHR Nationals. He has done a lot of winning and been a really good boy who earned an "early" retirement at the age of just 5yo







Erica and I both have mares in foal to him due SOON and can't wait!!!


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## Boinky (Jan 19, 2009)

This is AMHR/ASPC Boinky's Jet Pilot's Rock "E" Landing at 2008 AMHR nationals in Versatility. Ideally i'd like his neck a little more archy than it is in this photo but overall i think it's a good photo!

it really depends on how your horse LOOKS.. some horses look aweful streached and some look way better. really it's very much like showing arabians though.






this is not the best photo he could rock more onto his forehand and giving his neck a bit better but this is my newest (sorry for the fuzzies) ASPC/soon to be AMHR "owsley forks cool cat".. he hasn't been handled a whole lot through his life so he's not the easiest horse to get to do things.


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## Boinky (Jan 19, 2009)

woopsie.. double post


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## Irish Hills Farm (Jan 19, 2009)

Here are a few of my horses. As Terri said you may set your horse up a certain way and the judge may have a different opinion, i.e. horse stretched to much and may ask you to square you horse.






Irish Hills Toys In The Attic - Multi-National Top 10 (6 & 7) Halter Geldings Over






Wall Street Rock "E" Livingston - Congress Champion & Multi-Congress Top 10 ASPC - 2009 AMHR Hardship






Erica's Caramel Macchiato - National Top Ten






Little Kings Junior Jinx - One of my herd sires, never been shown.


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 19, 2009)

Thanks for posting the photos !!!!!

minih, can you post your Avatar photo ??? That horse looks like it is being very well presented


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## minih (Jan 19, 2009)

> minih, can you post your Avatar photo ??? That horse looks like it is being very well presented


I would be glad to, this is another picture of Lita taken at Nationals. My husband was on the sidelines with our camera and took quite a few of her. Thank you for the compliment, that is my daughter Chasta showing her. I am the groomer and my husband takes pictures and hauls things around for us.

LIta


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 19, 2009)

minih said:


> > minih, can you post your Avatar photo ??? That horse looks like it is being very well presented
> 
> 
> I would be glad to, this is another picture of Lita taken at Nationals. My husband was on the sidelines with our camera and took quite a few of her. Thank you for the compliment, that is my daughter Chasta showing her. I am the groomer and my husband takes pictures and hauls things around for us.
> ...


BEAUTIFUL


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## nysart8902 (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm confused. I've been told not to stretch them out so much, and a lot of the photos on here they look really stretched out. I thought they were supposed to be in a normal stand with the back legs slightly stretched and the neck stretched slightly too. Like the photos minih posted


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## ruffian (Jan 19, 2009)

Miniatures should be shown square, all four feet straight under their body. Shetlands are shown stretched. A good mini judge should tell you to "Square up your horse" if it's too stretched. Many of the photos of the beautiful horses on this thread are overstretched for the show ring, even though lots of them are in the ring.


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## nysart8902 (Jan 19, 2009)

ruffian, thank you


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## Leeana (Jan 19, 2009)

ruffian said:


> Miniatures should be shown square, all four feet straight under their body. Shetlands are shown stretched. A good mini judge should tell you to "Square up your horse" if it's too stretched. Many of the photos of the beautiful horses on this thread are overstretched for the show ring, even though lots of them are in the ring.


I think that is something that is more enforced in AMHA though, i know A stresses to show your horse square, but since i show R



, i normally square them up or "park them out" just enough to drop the croup and allow them to stand up nice when i ask them to show. If the judge askes you to square up, which i have seen them do although i personally have never been asked to. I don't believe i would park my miniature out to the extreme point like a modern though, i cannot see that look good on most miniatures....its just how they look best. What i do, is i have a large window in my tack room so i will take the horse outside and stand infront of that window and watch the horse "show" in the window (reflection) and play with them and see what i like.


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## ruffian (Jan 19, 2009)

"I think that is something that is more enforced in AMHA though, i know A stresses to show your horse square,"

It is in the rule book that miniature are to be shown (and measured!) standing square. As I said, good judges who follow the rules should ask exhibitors to square up their horses, even if they are parked out only a little.


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 19, 2009)

I appreciate the honest info, in our assn. (Arab) so MANY do not follow or "play by" the rules, I am a stickler for them so I want to know exactly how I am supposed to present my Mini


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## Relic (Jan 19, 2009)

lMO our girl is set up fairly square no big stretch ..










And my fave guy


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## wpsellwood (Jan 19, 2009)

Heres a few of ours, not all are showing but they arent stretched and have good expression.

Gracie Lou ~






Calvin ~






Hey Gorgeous






Doors~ just waiting in the tack stall but a good stance


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 19, 2009)

Great stance pix... now how about "giving neck" pix... I show Arabs so I am used to a snakey-hooky neck  Let me see the little guys showing their stuff, I want to see some EXTREME necks !


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## Leeana (Jan 19, 2009)

I know i have a ton of these photos somewhere, will just post one really quick as im fixing to call it a night...but here is one...just wish his ears had been up,

Westwind BTU Crown Prince Flyte --












Then, back after a quick clip reallly early last year...parked just a tad to much






Westwind BTU Crown Prince Narko -- As a early yearling ..






A gelding i use to own..this is a good example of a square standing horse..looking back i wish i had parked him out an inch or so more..


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## albahurst (Jan 19, 2009)

I believe there are differences between AMHA and AMHR in how a horse is set up for show. So, the way you do it might depend on the registry you are showing in. The 'A' shows prefer a square set and actually mark you down for 'parking out'. The 'R' registry horses are more 'parked out'- hind legs stretched out behind the horse somewhat. I think you can see what I am talking about in some of the photos above. Ideally, the horse is set up so that its conformation and presence is looking its best, too.

Peggy

OK-I should have read all this thread before I posted- guess this topic has already been addressed!


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## Relic (Jan 20, 2009)

We have no extreme necks here but here's a 32.75" long yearling who does have a decent lenght neck..and oh well stretched way to much..


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## Latika (Jan 20, 2009)

wow, being in a different country, i didnt think we would have showed so differently! Now i remember why we always taught our arabs to stack up (or "park" as you call it) when we knew an american was judging hahaha although must admit its getting popular again.

This is how I normallt stand my big horses; with one hind leg back (just for comparison lol)





My minis are shown square, but not stacked/parked


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## Epona Stable Belgium (Jan 20, 2009)

ruffian said:


> Miniatures should be shown square, all four feet straight under their body. Shetlands are shown stretched. A good mini judge should tell you to "Square up your horse" if it's too stretched. Many of the photos of the beautiful horses on this thread are overstretched for the show ring, even though lots of them are in the ring.


Correct! I've participated at the judge seminar!


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## Lisa Strass (Jan 20, 2009)

A couple of neck shots of Red Alert:











Regarding the square vs stretched: I show all AMHR/ASPC these days, so that is my point of reference. I do show my minis with more of a stretch than say a stock horse, but nowhere near a Modern Shetland. (Everything is relative.) When you're trying to get neck, which everyone does in the minis, if they aren't stretched just a little, they look like they are going to fall forward IMO which looks kind of silly. Here are a couple of examples of my minis set up like I do it. I think the main goal is to make the horse look balanced.

Charlie






Slippers


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow, thanks for the responses !!!

Lisa, gorgeous neck on your guy, and I LOVE the second photo, beautiful !!!

I show Arabian ( sorry repeating that so much ) but we do not "Park" our horses, Parking is for Saddlebreds, in Arabian we split the rear legs slightly and square the fronts ( some people do stretch their horses trying to flatten a peaky croup, but they are not supposed to be stretched very much at all )

Below are photos of My Stallion showing the correct "American" style of presentation, however my horse does not exhibit the extreme fear IE : "dear in the headlights" look many Big trainers get ( my horse respects me, but does not fear me 

First photo is at a show






Second is at home ( he was between shows and slightly chubby  I wasn't "asking for neck" he was relaxed


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## minih (Jan 20, 2009)

Here is one of our pasture pets that has a beautiful neck.

Buddy


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## End Level Farms (Jan 20, 2009)

Heres a few FREE standing pictures.






I would like to see her neck more up and Archy. However since no one was asking for anything.,






Another cute one of her. (There was a board on the ground that wasnt there before)

Sam needed to rock forward a little bit more here. Was mu first time ever setting him up. (Im Proud Of Me)






Here hes parked too far in the hind not rocking forward like he should and not up right. Hes very lack luster here. (But still pretty IMO)






Im currently trying to find his EXTREME parked out pictures.

Ill edit once I find them.


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 20, 2009)

minih said:


> Here is one of our pasture pets that has a beautiful neck. Buddy



Now THAT can pass for an Arabian ! How tall is this horse ?????


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 20, 2009)

End Level Farms said:


> Heres a few FREE standing pictures.
> 
> 
> Sam needed to rock forward a little bit more here. Was mu first time ever setting him up. (Im Proud Of Me)


ACTUALLY... IMHO He looks great as far as the elevation of his head & neck, (I wouldn't "rock" him forward at all) I would just get him to a "poke" to ask for neck, put him back in this frame, then ask for neck another "poke" then back to this etc...while the judges are evaluate him would make for a very pretty picture and be how I would present my Big guy 

If you ask for neck too long they tend to reach and look all planked out, NOT a pretty picture :-( That's why I get a poke then back, then poke then back, keeps them FRESH and shows more hook. ( BUT This is in Arabian showing, I DO plan to train Herc this way though and see how it works )

*Disclaimer ! I am NOT trying to sound like a know it all, just sharing my experience, since what I gather is that the goal is too present very closely to Arabian style  *

Oh, and the Mare, adorable !!!


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## minih (Jan 20, 2009)

He is a small shetland and measures as a mini at around 41 maybe, haven't really took a stick to him.


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## River Wood (Jan 20, 2009)

One of our Mares.......River Wood Rapid's Dolly May (below)






Our Herdsire Tibbs Rapid Transit (below) Resv. Ntl Champ....nice stance from a bit of a different angle......






Stallion.....River Wood Rapid's Inquisitor (below) Multiple Grand Champ ...he could be standing a bit more under himself in front






River Wood's Montego Shasaedoh (below) Top Ten Ntl Champ... back foot is a bit cocked.


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## whitney (Jan 20, 2009)

Help a newbie out here, I thought when the hock falls behind the rump thats stretched?

What I think when I see a stretched horse that shouldn't be is, if stood square it would be either camped out or goose rumped.

I think this is the way they are suppose to be stood up.


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 20, 2009)

River Wood said:


> Our Herdsire Tibbs Rapid Transit (below) Resv. Ntl Champ....nice stance from a bit of a different angle......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 20, 2009)

PAS Hercules said:


> ACTUALLY... IMHO He looks great as far as the elevation of his head & neck, (I wouldn't "rock" him forward at all) I would just get him to a "poke" to ask for neck, put him back in this frame, then ask for neck another "poke" then back to this etc...while the judges are evaluate him would make for a very pretty picture and be how I would present my Big guy If you ask for neck too long they tend to reach and look all planked out, NOT a pretty picture :-( That's why I get a poke then back, then poke then back, keeps them FRESH and shows more hook. ( BUT This is in Arabian showing, I DO plan to train Herc this way though and see how it works )


Question- "Poke?"

I'd like to enter Versatility this year so I'm trying to teach my distinctly non-halter-personality gelding to show a stance and I'll take any tricks I can get!



Clicker training has gotten him to rock back away from me on command, pull himself up into a bright pose, set his feet (we still need work on not parking out, he loves to park out like a Modern) and we're finally beginning to get ears on command but I really have no clue what I'm doing. Halter is the one discipline I've *never* enjoyed nor had any luck with teaching...I'm a performance girl all the way! *LOL*

He's got a very low-set neck but it ties in well to his withers and more importantly he's got an extremely clean, thin natural throatlatch with a lot of hook. Hence my need to teach him to set back then hook for me- I want to show that off!

Leia


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 20, 2009)

The "Poke" is when they give neck, but just a quick poke about 2 seconds, then back... not holding their neck out during the whole time they are being judged ( holding it out too long creates the flattened, unflattering neck ) keep repeating the poke as the judges walk around the horse until they move on...

I am trying to figure out how to get this with a Mini, I haven't even started working Hercules, but with an Arabian weanling, I hiss at them to rock back and make the kissing noise and offer my hand or end of the lead to get the poke, as soon as I get the poke, I draw away whatever I offered and bump them up again and hiss to get the head re-elevated and have them rock back again 

Hope that makes sense !


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## River Wood (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks PAS Hercules


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## End Level Farms (Jan 20, 2009)

What you said about Sam is about what I meant but wasn't able to describe.

He is a creeper so we have been enforcing STAY.


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## Riverdance (Jan 20, 2009)

nysart8902 said:


> I'm confused. I've been told not to stretch them out so much, and a lot of the photos on here they look really stretched out. I thought they were supposed to be in a normal stand with the back legs slightly stretched and the neck stretched slightly too. Like the photos minih posted



I think that AMHR is leaning more towards parking out their horses like the Shetland ponies. In AMHA, the horses still need to be square.


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## Rebecca (Jan 20, 2009)

By "rock forward" do you guys mean lean forward? Stretch the neck forward, or push the neck/chest forward? I have a problem with mine leaning forward too much (we finally fixed her parking out problem) and putting her neck out rather than up. Try as I might I can't get it up, out, and 'hooky' (although I KNOW she has a pretty neck, I've seen it when she squeals at new horses!!!!) and her ears almost never come forward, I've tried various treats, noises, crinkly bags, etc.

Great post! Learning a lot and gorgeous horses.


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## Lisa Strass (Jan 20, 2009)

PAS, your Arab stallion is beautiful!




I think you'll get the mini look with no problem. Watching a couple of mini shows in person will also help you get a feel for what you want to achieve. You are right in that Miniatures (and Shetlands) are all shown square vs split. It's just the degree of parked out that varies.





I see you are in Oklahoma. The MHPBO Club puts on four AMHR/ASPC shows every year. We would love to see you at one of our shows! The dates and locations for the 2009 shows are:

April 24-26, Ada

May 15-17, Ada

June 26-28, Ardmore - This is the Area V Regional Show

July 18-19, Ada


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## _minihorses4ever_ (Jan 20, 2009)

I think this is a good pose for Romeo, my now two year old gelding..


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## kaykay (Jan 20, 2009)

I only show ASPC/AMHR and I saw tons of people especially last year asked by judges to square up their minis. Just dont want people thinking that if they go to an AMHR show to park out their mini.

One thing about hooky necks is a horse is born with it or they arent. You cant create it and you cannot get a hook on a straight necked horse. Just wont work no matter what you do.

This girl got her goregeous neck from her sire D&S Nestlies Crunch who definitely has a hooky neck. Maybe Fran will post pics of him


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## Margaret (Jan 20, 2009)

Lots of good ideas passed on here..

Its always best if you can get ears too.

Here's last years colt giving his best in a show stance.


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## nysart8902 (Jan 20, 2009)

Riverdance said:


> I think that AMHR is leaning more towards parking out their horses like the Shetland ponies. In AMHA, the horses still need to be square.


I'm starting to get confused with all this now. I only show AMHR (there's no AMHA close to us), and most of the judges seem to want the horse square. At least a lot of the horses at the shows are square, or seem to be squared. I'm not sure I even understand why you would want to stretch the horse out so much to begin with. How can a judge say that the horse has good conformation if the horse isn't standing normal?


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## countrycharm (Jan 21, 2009)

heres my boy standin up






and his foal from this season just starting with her she doesnt like to do ears yet



but at least we stand still!!!


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## ruffian (Jan 21, 2009)

"I'm starting to get confused with all this now. I only show AMHR (there's no AMHA close to us), and most of the judges seem to want the horse square. At least a lot of the horses at the shows are square, or seem to be squared. I'm not sure I even understand why you would want to stretch the horse out so much to begin with. How can a judge say that the horse has good conformation if the horse isn't standing normal?"

In both registries horses are required to stand square. So in both AMHA AND AMHR miniature horses are to be shown squared.


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## Leeana (Jan 21, 2009)

Straight from the AMHR rulebook...

The Miniature Horse is to be shown to its best

advantage. It is preferred that the horse stand square.

The Judge at his or her discretion may ask to have the

horse stand square, which means all four feet are flat

on the ground and at least one front and one rear

cannon bone perpendicular to the ground.

It is not REQUIRED for the horse to stand square, it is preferred and as stated the miniautre horse is to be shown to its best advantage.



> How can a judge say that the horse has good conformation if the horse isn't standing normal


There is so much you can hide in a halter class....setting of the croup improves/hides a bad topline...many people fix hocks on a hocky horse, there is so much bad conformation you can hide by little tricks of the trade that if you look at the horse in the ring standing after all these things being fixed, then just look at the horse "just" standing sometimes it doesn't look like the same horse.


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 21, 2009)

GREAT info. & GREAT pictures !!!!! 

I see by the official rules there is some leeway, show your horse to it's best and total squaring isn't mandatory ( but parked NOT out like a Saddlebred either ! ), Ok that helps alot !


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## nysart8902 (Jan 21, 2009)

Ok. I'm not confused anymore


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## PAS Hercules (Jan 21, 2009)

Lisa Strass said:


> PAS, your Arab stallion is beautiful!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you ! He's my sweet boy





I am hoping to get Hercules' papers, if not, I am thinking of hardshipping him, if I do I will surely be attending shows ! I am checking into the club


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## Minimor (Jan 25, 2009)

whitney--a goose rumped horse actually won't look good in a stretched pose. I've seen people try it, and the effect is quite revolting!

And it is actually possible to judge a horse's hind legs even in a stretched pose--if a horse truly has camped out conformation, that will be apparent whether the horse stands square or stretched--you just have to know how to look at the hind legs. Stood square, a horse should have his hind cannons straight up and down on a line that drops down from the back of his thigh. In a stretched position, visualize a line running along the back of the cannon up to the thigh--that line should intersect the horse's thigh. If the horse has camped out conformation and is standing in a stretched pose, a line run up the back of the cannon will not intersect the horse's thigh--it will shoot right past the horse's backside off into space!

As for AMHR judges wanting horses stood up square, it must very much depend on the judge. At our local R show the past two years I have commented that I notice the horses are being stood up stretched more than they were in previous shows--2 or 3 judges in 2007 (I forget which there were that year) and 4 judges in 2008 (one of those 4 is known to be a real stickler for following the rules!) and I saw only one judge ask for one horse to be stood up more square. The rest were judged as presented--stretched--and the stretched ones were often winning, so it didn't count against them.


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## kkay3702 (Feb 18, 2009)

i kno this is an older post but i had a decent picture of my mini






i hadn't done anything with his mane obviously this was taken before we had ever been to a show just practicing clipping. Totally newbies





heres one at our first show...completely clueless






Linda Best's "Max" is in the background


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## disneyhorse (Feb 19, 2009)

I have shown AMHR for ten years and always showed my horses stretched out. Not stretched as far as a Modern Shetland, but yes, stretched out. Only had ONE judge in all those years ask to see my horse squared up. And it's just judge preference. In AMHR you may show your horse stretched or square, to it's best advantage. That's always how I have interpreted the rules and seen the rules enforced and interpreted by the majority of judges and exhibitors.

AMHA is much more strict about having the horse standing "square" but people sure don't do that for their ads 

At any rate, I'd say the miniatures show parked out but not as extreme as the ponies.

Andrea


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## Riverdance (Feb 20, 2009)

Latika said:


> wow, being in a different country, i didnt think we would have showed so differently! Now i remember why we always taught our arabs to stack up (or "park" as you call it) when we knew an american was judging hahaha although must admit its getting popular again.This is how I normallt stand my big horses; with one hind leg back (just for comparison lol)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually your Mini's are parked out there, they are supposed to be standing square for the USA. At least for AMHA. I notice that many of the AMHR horses are parked out, trying to get a flat croup. Ponies are shown parked out and since AMHR is a pony club and Mini registry, most tend to follow the ponies and park their horses out. Something that AMHA horses are not allowed to do.

Riverdance Scouts Black Tie Affair






In AMHA we keep them square. Since I have shown dogs for over 40 years, I tend to try and set my horses up like dogs, so they end up too much under themselves. The above picture shows how the photographer feels they should look for AMHA.


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## sdmini (Feb 21, 2009)

AMHR may have horses slightly more stretched then AMHA but it's a matter of degrees. The different ways you can set up a horse will camouflage certain faults. Yes stretching will cause some hips to flatten out but will not help a goose rump (as already be stated) at all, actually making it worse. I've seen plenty of people push on the hips to try to get them to flatten out so it's not all about where you place the feet.

I was very happy with this colt. He is standing pretty square, with one foot slightly out. His head is up and out, I hate when the horse (mine included) has their neck is sticking straight out like a stick. It is not attractive and makes you horse look like he's going to fall over and throws off their whole balence.






Not as wild about this horses stance. His neck is almost at the "stick" angle I was talking about and his feet are close but not quite in the right position.






This one back legs are not quite where they should be and although his neck set is very nice if I could get him to "poke" (love that term) it would have been better.






This one is a bit stretched but if I could get him to rock forward it would have made for a better photo. (also is a great example of "too busy" halter.)






Guess that's about all I have loaded on the computer.


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