# What have I done? Good or bad????



## Diamondinmypocket (Nov 23, 2012)

Quick note: I was Intexas2stay before my life changed. I am emerging from my closet






I got a triple registered black and white A broodmare. Awesome personality. I got her because of her experience with children, and I have a 2 year old daughter who I want to pass the joy onto. She is a nice mare, From a respectable breeder. She ended up at a good friends boarding facility when her previous owners needed to make space. She was used in lessons (ground) and pony parties.

I found a local nice Rowdy bred A stud and she was exposed much around end of august and start of September.

I owned and was beginning to show miniatures many years ago. I never got a chance to join the mare stares, which was my long term goal.

I have been researching and talking to horse people to be as prepared as I can be for this.

Past couple of weeks I noticed her belly has been shifting left, right, round, then droopy. I am going about this the "old fashioned way" so I haven't tested her. As she is doing her belly dance, I am starting to think shes preggo!!!!!

So being new to breeding and genetics of pintos, In my a.m research today, I read that a Rowdy offspring tested LWO+.

This is my first baby. Maybe my last. I am doing this for my joy, And Diamond is really special, even though I just got a second mare as a pasture mate.

So now I am flipping out. Did I make a mistake? And if not, PLEASE help me get through this craziness that has seemed to have infest itself!!!!!

WHile I am not new to the forum, I am new to this club! I have so many questions.

Thanks!

Nicole


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## Wings (Nov 23, 2012)

Do you have a photo of your mare? Although pinto she may just be something safe like tobiano, that said a photo based colour identification is not 100% as frame overo is one of the few colour genes that hides. Best bet would be to test your mare, it is only $25.

Do you know the LWO status of the stud you used? Not everything of Rowdy's tested positive. Contact the owner and ask.

You might be lucky and be safe. Although I say this from an educational perspective not a telling off but it will be luck if you are rather then good planning, when stepping into breeding you really need to do your reading to know what problems in your breed need to be tested for and then ensure that both dam and sire safe. For minis it's LWO, Arabs have lavender foal, QH have HERDA just to name a few.

You have come to the right place with all your questions though! There are a lot of experienced people here and all of us are used to having both meltdowns and holding the hands of someone else when they have their own



I have my fingers crossed that both mare and stallion are clear and you'll be expecting a healthy little bubs


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## Diamondinmypocket (Nov 23, 2012)

Wings,

Thank you for your reply



I do have a photo but I can only email right now. Feel free to pm me if you want to see both. From my starting research I thought all was ok.

The previous owner is hard to get a hold of. It was hard enough to get her papers from them. I guess she is just busy with her work.... Diamond came with all 3 papers and was dna tested. I will ask, but an answer is iffy. I hold hope that with the cost they put into all of her paperwork, the fact that she was a broodmare, they would tell me if they knew. So a test seems to be needed. Thank you!

The owner of the stud, well, she is evasive, or busy or rude. It took forever to get my mare back, not yet given the cover dates, or paperwork for the service. I have been asking for months.




I see my mistakes now.

Like I said, I do most research or gather knowledge through what I can read. I do not have the mini people I was friends with years ago, so I decided to go on what I had learned thus far. I felt ok, until a past thread I was reading said the studs line did have a LWO+. I doubt the stud has been tested, hes 17 years old. I was not sure the breeding would even produce. I have seen photos of prior offspring of both, but learning the LWO is so tricky sometimes, now it has me worried.

i now have a knot in my stomach now. Your post was very informative, and honest. So thank you. But then, I now have guilt to add if I made such a bad mistake. When can you tell you know enough to even get into this? I have the worst luck of learning the hard way.


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## Wings (Nov 23, 2012)

You can email me at marlanoc[email protected] if you like





It's very difficult when stud owners and past owner's are not on the ball or helpful with these things, it's very unfair on first timers as well.

If you want to test her I recommend http://www.horsetesting.com/LWO.htm and doing it as soon as you can for your own peace of mind. If she comes back negative then you can have a big sigh of relief and enjoy the rest of the ride.


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## targetsmom (Nov 23, 2012)

If you want to send me photos and information on the mare, I will try to help. I have a lot of Rowdy blood in my herd. Also, even if both the mare and the stallion are LWO+, you still have "only" a 25% chance that the foal with inherit LWO from both sides and be in trouble. So the odds are definitely in your favor.

Mary - email at [email protected]

Our stallion is a Rowdy bred pinto - grandson of Ramblin Starbuck and is LWO negative.


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## targetsmom (Nov 24, 2012)

I have looked at both photos and don't see anything that screams "LWO" but as we all know, you can't tell just by looking. I highly recommend that you get the mare tested and then - I hope - you can stop worrying. I use http://www.animalgen...s.us/Equine.asp - you want the frame overo test - but other labs are likely just as good. The stallion has a facial markings very similar to our stallion who, as I mentioned, is LWO negative despite his Rowdy blood. Rowdy would have only passed the LWO gene to half his sons/daughters, and each of those that got it would only pass it to half of their offspring, so the farther away from Rowdy you get, the less likely the offspring will be LWO+. Of course, the reason we needed to get our stallion tested was because one of our Rowdy-bred mares IS LWO+!! And she inherited the gray gene from Blue Boy so she hides her frame pattern very well (see avatar, mare in background).

ETA: If your mare was only bred in late August/early September, I would doubt that you could see any changes to her belly at this point. We have a maiden mare that is 6 months pregnant - confirmed via ultrasound back in May and then again via WeeFoal urine test in late October - and she doesn't look pregnant at all. After five foals, our other mare bred at the same time, does look pregnant though.


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## Diamondinmypocket (Nov 27, 2012)

I am glad I came back to this family on L.B. A huge thank you belongs to everyone here.I will do the test once i have my winter food covered. I still have not found my binder with their papers, and it is driving me nuts. I am a devoted tablet user, and am on my husbands laptop now. I don't have photos on his computer and i can't post anything from my tablet. i sent the photos to members who have requested them. I would let someone post for me if thats allowed...

And the photo I did send of the mare was taken when I first got her. before she was bred. i cleaned her up yesterday and got an udder pic but didnt think about taking more.... when it warms up, i will get a few. And this pinto thing is very complicated. I have been emailing some back and forth but holy cow! But I love the in put and help!


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## targetsmom (Nov 27, 2012)

Here are photos of the mare that I was sent. The OP mentioned in the e-mail to me that the mare has Bond breeding. Pretty mare!


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## AnnaC (Nov 28, 2012)

What a pretty mare Nicole! Did you tell us how old she is/whether she has had foals before? (sorry forgot to read your other posts before typing this!)

As Diane said, not need to worry about anything yet - if she is only approx 3 months in foal you will not be seeing any changes in her shape for several months yet and probably another 7 months before she shows any udder development. So lots of time to sort out any tests (if necessary) or to get prepared for a possible LWO compromised foal.

So just chill and enjoy your time with her - oh and join in with the threads here while keeping us all up to date with her progress as well as introducing us to all your other animals (who is the new mare??).

And WELCOME to the Nutty Nursery!!


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## Diamondinmypocket (Nov 28, 2012)

After days of searching I found my binder! Here are names and dates and so on.

Ja ms midnight diamond, foaled 02 permanent a papers 30.50"

Sire: Amha Mitasunke Huka 29.00"

Dam: Amha C & Ms peach brandy

Bred in late August to Alamos rowdy tr. Star. Not sure of what the tr. Stands for, I am waiting for my own copy of his papers for personal reference.

Diamond has been a broodmare. I did see the studs pspers. I want to buy the stud because he has been in the ring before and I can learn from him. But his price is too high I think.


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## JAX (Nov 29, 2012)

This is what i found on AMHA online studbook

MS MID KNIGHT DIAMOND

A 132193 Black pinto Mare born 05/26/02

Sire is Mitasunke Huka listed as a black pinto

Dam is C & MS Peach Brandy listed as a solid palomino

I am assuming that the stallion you are tallking about is actually

ALAMOS ROWDYS TRI STAR

A 110927 Bay pinto Stallion born 03/12/99

Sire is NFC Rowdys Impressive listed as a solid brown

Dam is Skylines Texas Maid listed as Sorrel pinto

Both Diamond and Star have had their papers revoked probably just due to not having them brought permanent yet I'm guessing. I have no idea about which lines tend to carry LWO and so will leave that up to the "overo pros" LOL. Oh and I did see that your mare did produce a Brown pinto filly 05/09/06 in case you did not already know. Good Luck with your possible new little one!!


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## Diamondinmypocket (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks Jax!

Now that you were so kind to post the info so the color experts might see it and explain further into the pinto aspects, I now have questions on the papers situation.

Diamond was hard to get papers on. Seller had them but did not seem to want me to have them. I paid $100 for the papers. I have temp. A papers not signed for transfer. Perm R papers signed for transfer and world papers also not signed. It was such a fight I begged for r papers to be signed just to get them in my hand.

Star... Met his owner at her work looking for goat for meds for our new goat. Got into minis. Turned to bragging. Her mini stud, last of her herd I guess, was for sale. Wanted him ,still do but I couldnt invest so much money in senior stallion.

But Diamond came in season in August and I bred her to him. $200 was worth it to me to get to what I dream.

I saw his papers, looked good, but wasnt given them to inspect. I have a service contract but no matter what I have done I just the list of cover dates.

So I still have much to learn. I think it seems there wete many changes to both registries and I need to catch up before the end of the year.


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## Diamondinmypocket (Nov 29, 2012)

Fyi: I broke a molar and cant sleep due being messed up on pain med. So my tapping is off a bit...but im up so if anyone want to chat somehoew post how we can do that...


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## targetsmom (Nov 29, 2012)

With this information I also checked out the Stud book on-line and my key concerns have nothing to do with LWO at this point. Yes, the stallion could very well carry LWO, but I don't see anything in the mare's pedigree that suggests it. Of course, she should still be tested. She also has Gold Melody Boy, Buckeroo, and a whole lot of old time minis in her pedigree.

My concerns are about the revoked papers and the names listed as owners. The stallion's owner is listed as RAMONA BATEMAN & JANE MACON and the mare's owner as BILL OR MARIAN UPTON. If these are the people you have been dealing with, that is fine, but if not, that is a huge red flag (and not that uncommon). The fact that the stallion has no offspring listed is also a red flag especially for one born in 1999. Yes, your mare had a foal in 2006, so that is good. If these are the people you are dealing with, and they signed the transfer (in mare's case) and send in the stallion report due January 15, 2013 (for stud), you should be fine. You might have to pay a late fee to bring the mare permanent in AMHA, and there is plenty of time to get the stallion report in, but that has to be done by the owner of record (or their agent).

Don't worry about the "world" papers if you mean the World Class registry - those are pretty worthless. Concentrate on the A and R papers. And don't feel bad, I had to pay a LOT more than $100 for papers for one of our minis, even with a signed sales agreement. Not all sellers were created equal!!!!


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