# Flicka's mare stare thread



## JFNM miniatures (Mar 14, 2021)

Hello everyone, 
I'm a new member, but have been following this forum for a while now because I bought last year a pregnant mare and stallion to add to my herd.
I joined this forum because I thought it would be good if I ever have questions or worries. 
I could have started this thread in the Introductions section, but since it has to do with pregnancy, I thought it would be better to introduce myself here. 

A little more about the horses, now ! 
Flicka is a cute and quiet little palomino mare that stands at 33" and was bred to Jumper (I bought him, too) standing at 34". Both horses could have been registered, but unfortunetly, the former owner did not do it. 

These two horses were rather negleted... I mean, hoofs had not been trimmed in at least a year or two, had no vet history, and was occasionally given cow or chicken feed and poor quality hay. The stallion was quite wild and terrified at certain things... The lady who sold them to me specifically said she never brushed him... only the mare. And it was true. He shook like a leaf whenever I brushed him. But now, after lots of work and patience, he stands quietly while I brush him, braid him, and clean out his hoofs. I also started to train him on the lunge line and he is becoming more and more trusting and gentle.

Back to the mare, it's my first time experience with horse pregnancies, but THANKFULLY, I know her service date of (May 21st, 2020) and she had an ultrasound last summer that confirmed she was indeed pregnant. Today, she is at day 297 and is huge ! Previous owner told me she had 2 other foals and she foaled both of them at exactly 342 days. This date falls on April 28 !! 
Of course, I know it can be different... 

As for getting ready, my foaling kit is already ready and the mare has been in the foaling stall for the last year... all I still need to do is install my watch camera and monitor.

Well, I hope to meet some of you, and... like everybody else, can't wait to see your 2021 foals... and mine of course !


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 14, 2021)

Sounds like you are set! You say it is your first experience with horse pregnancies and foaling, do you have any questions? Be sure to read the info on dystocia and red bags. Also, if you are not familiar with it, ph testing is a great resource as well.


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## Pitter Patter (Mar 14, 2021)

Welcome! I see I am in good company. I also have a mare due....whenever! But fairly soon I think! I was told she was pregnant by previous owner and it could be her stud...or mine!  Keep us updated!


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 14, 2021)

So yes, I did have one question... for now at least ! Flicka is getting very good-quality hay (fescue-free), and I bought a bag of pregnant mare/lactation feed. But honestly, she is doing great on the hay so far and gained weight since I got her, although she is not obese. The vet said she has a good condition. I know she will need more vitamins and minerals once the foal starts sucking.... Should I start her on the feed soon, our wait until she has a foal by her side ? 

What do you think ?


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 14, 2021)

I'll include pics of Flicka just as soon as I can get my phone recharged... It died before I had time to take more than three pics.


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 14, 2021)

I might start her on just a small portion of it just to get her used to it. This is the time where the foal is growing the most too so she needs more calories. I started my girl on it at about 260 days. She’s a lightly built mare though that doesn’t carry any extra weight. She barely even looks in foal right now. I would definitely feed it when she foals though as the extra calories will be very beneficial during lactation.


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## Taz (Mar 15, 2021)

Welcome! Can't wait for pictures and updates. I gave both of mine a 1/2 cup twice a day of maternity in the last trimester even though they both were in good weight and increased to 1 cup twice a day after, they didn't seem to need more.


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 15, 2021)

Hello everyone,
Thank you for your welcome and answers!
Below is are pics of Flicka. The side one is from yesterday... you can all tell, I was brushing off all her shedding hair  the other one was taken this last Fall, but I just put it because I like that one.

I did not include any pics of the udder because all she has is a little bit of edema in front, but not much else. It's starting to fill
a little bit, but nothing serious.

Taz, thanks for telling me the portions you give your mares... The nutritionist told me to give her a cup, but since she does not have a nursing foal yet, I think I'll start with 1/2 cup because she is in good condition. I'll give her 1 cup when she starts nursing. 

Pitter patter, I've been reading all 32 pages of your thread... I can't wait to see your foal !

elisabeth.conder, I will look up more info about dystocia.... I did a big research on red bags, but have not researched too much about dystocia births. Thanks for the heads up !


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 15, 2021)

Very pretty mare!


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## Taz (Mar 15, 2021)

She's so pretty, I love her eyes. There's great info about dystocias and red bag pinned at the top of this page. Also if you google I Am Ranch they have great foaling videos.


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 15, 2021)

Taz said:


> She's so pretty, I love her eyes. There's great info about dystocias and red bag pinned at the top of this page. Also if you google I Am Ranch they have great foaling videos.



Thanks Taz ! But I can't find the info you're talking about... The one pinned at the top of this page. I don't think I'm looking at the right place... Where should I be looking ? 

Sorry, but I'm a new member and am still exploring this forum and its features !


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 15, 2021)

Aha ! I just found those articles... Never mind what I said earlier Taz !


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## Taz (Mar 15, 2021)

No worries, it took me a while to find them too


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 16, 2021)

Hi there, I've been wondering how many of you who have foaling experiences have had mare whose pregnancies lasted for the same number of days, or almost... 

Example - 
year 1: day 340, 
year 2: day 339, 
year 3: day 341)... 

I know that some mares follow the same pregnancy for each foal... but has it ever happened to you that out of the blue, that consistent mare foaled on a completely period of time ? 

I'm wondering because my mare has been pregnant twice before I bought her, and foaled at exactly day 342 for both pregnancies... I was wondering if it is very likely that it will happen again, or if there are still some chances of seeing a foal earlier or later than that....

By the way, even if you did not experience this personally in the past, you are welcome to give me any info you might know of !

Hoping to hear from you soon!


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## Ryan Johnson (Mar 16, 2021)

Welcome to the forum JFNM, 

A lot of mares follow the same pregnancy year after year. They bag up at the same time they did the year prior, show the same signs they are getting closer etc and yes, some foal on the same day or within a couple of days. 

Its great that you know her breeding date. 

Treat her as if she may go early than thinking she is going to last till 341 days !


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 16, 2021)

Thanks Ryan for your answer ! Of course, I will be on the lookout early, so I don't miss the big event! I was just wondering if I could pinpoint it more precisely... but like I've been reading, it's always better to be more alert than not.


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## Ryan Johnson (Mar 16, 2021)

Breeding dates are really only the starting point. 

As some mares don't produce an udder before foaling, it can be hard to pin point foaling on the way the udder looks alone. 

For me, once I can see the foal has "dropped " into position, I know things are getting serious.

Hopefully she will start to produce an udder in the next month or so. Many on here use pool strips to test the milk, which maybe something you want to try ? I have never used them to be honest. As your mare isn't a maiden mare, Im sure she will give you some signs she's getting closer

Yes they can be very sneaky these mares. I'm sure they can understand English quite well haha


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 17, 2021)

yes, I have pool strips to test pH and calcium/hardness level. Now, I'm just waiting for her to really bag up... It's starting, but very gradual... 

And yes, I think this mare understands English... And other languages too ! I'm trilangual so it makes this mare extra intellectual !


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## Pitter Patter (Mar 17, 2021)

Welcome to the forum! There are lots of lovely people here to help. New at this myself, so not much help...BUT Iwill add one thing and may not be pertinent, I had three children, all born exactly 7 days after their due date...I know people and horses are different, however most biological creatures I have found tend to follow their individual trends...but with all the variables things could change!


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## Flying on boo (Mar 17, 2021)

Beautiful girl I also have a mare possibly in foal, good luck with yours!


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 18, 2021)

Flying on boo said:


> Beautiful girl I also have a mare possibly in foal, good luck with yours!



Thank you Flying on boo... 
I hope everything goes well with you mare, too !


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 24, 2021)

Hello everyone,
Here is an update on Flicka.
The vet came yesterday to give second dose of vaccines to my stallion and she took a look at Flicka at the same time. Everything looks very good ! I had the nutritionist come to take a hay sample for testing and help me figure out how much feed Flicka needs according to the hay results.

I told the vet that Flicka has had 2 other foals on the same day of gestation (day 342), and she agrees that it will very likely happen again... But like she said, it's better to be prepared in case it happens before. My last thing to do to get ready is install my foaling monitor, that I'll be watching from my tack room. This way, I will be on site when it happens.

Otherwise, Flicka's udder is gradually filling. It's getting bigger every day, but it's not very full yet.

I included the latest pictures of Flicka...


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## Ryan Johnson (Mar 24, 2021)

She looks great 

Cant wait to see what she is hiding in there


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## Honiton (Mar 24, 2021)

What a pretty girl! Happy foaling!

I'm so glad that your giving the stallion a new lease on life, too. Poor guy.


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 25, 2021)

Thank you everyone !  _I can't wait to meet baby! _
I used a genetic calculator... there's 26.5% for palomino and 26.5% for bay... and 1% for black... I don't remember the percentage for the other colors...

So, yes, I can't wait to see what she is hiding in there !


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 25, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Thank you everyone !  _I can't wait to meet baby! _
> I used a genetic calculator... there's 26.5% for palomino and 26.5% for bay... and 1% for black... I don't remember the percentage for the other colors...
> 
> So, yes, I can't wait to see what she is hiding in there !



I am not sure what color the sire is, but that mare has silver, so you also have silver in play!


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 25, 2021)

Jumper (the sire) is bay. And yes, Flicka has silver! That was one of the colors I had forgotten ! 
Thanks elizabeth.conder !


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## Honiton (Mar 25, 2021)

I think that your mare is a silver bay, not a palomino - that'll change your calculations! She is super pretty.

Ets: oops, I see elizabeth just mentioned that too.


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 25, 2021)

Honiton said:


> I think that your mare is a silver bay, not a palomino - that'll change your calculations! She is super pretty.
> 
> Ets: oops, I see elizabeth just mentioned that too.




exactly, silver bay, very commonly mistaken for a palomino. I have one though so I recognize them.


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 25, 2021)

Honiton and elisabeth.conder, you're right... I did mistake her for a palomino... Now I know! ☺ 

So, I've redone the calculation, here are the results:
32.96% Gray (Bay)
32.96% Gray (Silver Bay)
10.99% Bay
10.99% Silver Bay
4.69 % Gray (Red (Chestnut/Sorrel)
(etc.....)


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## Taz (Mar 25, 2021)

How does it come up with grey when dad is bay and mom is silver bay?


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 25, 2021)

Taz, I don't know, that's what the calculator calculated...


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 25, 2021)

I'm fairly new at color genetics... I never explored this subject very much. If someone can explain, I'm getting a bit lost here...


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## JFNM miniatures (Mar 25, 2021)

AHA ! Just found the error.
When I did the test, It asked for the color of the sire and dam, which I entered... and beside it, there was a box for "gray". It was checked! I unchecked it, and here is what I got... I think it makes more sense... what do you think ?


43.95% -​*Bay*43.95% -​*Silver Bay*6.25% -​*Red (Chestnut/Sorrel)*2.93% -​*Black*2.93% -​*Silver Black*


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## Taz (Mar 25, 2021)

That makes a lot more sense, I thought I was missing something .


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## elizabeth.conder (Mar 25, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> AHA ! Just found the error.
> When I did the test, It asked for the color of the sire and dam, which I entered... and beside it, there was a box for "gray". It was checked! I unchecked it, and here is what I got... I think it makes more sense... what do you think ?
> 
> 
> 43.95% -​*Bay*43.95% -​*Silver Bay*6.25% -​*Red (Chestnut/Sorrel)*2.93% -​*Black*2.93% -​*Silver Black*



Yes this is correct! My stallion is silver bay and I really want a silver black. My money is on red though with his test results and the dam being red.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 1, 2021)

Hello everyone,
Here is an update on Flicka.
Today is day 315 and she is getting bigger and bigger.
I never thought that mares could get this big ! Flicka is getting more grumpy and heavy. 

Everything seems to be going textbook so far. Last w-end, she started to seriously bag up, although there is no milk to test yet. My foaling cam is up and ready. Foaling kit is ready since early March. Only thing left is for me to finish that foal blanket I started. All I need to do is put the velcro and belly band.

I've been keeping a record since day 300 with the awesome sheets that I found on I AM Ranch 's website. It's very useful to see the progression! I've been reading all the info on their website, it's incredible the amount of resources they have for miniature horse owners! I included the link, in case you are interested.






Foal Time foaling strips, foaling predictor, milk test strips, how to tell when mare will foal, miniature horse foaling, miniature horse breeding, predicting foal date of horse


Foal-Time foaling strips, foaling predictor, milk test strips, how to tell when mare will foal, miniature horse foaling, miniature horse breeding, predicting foal date of horse



iamranch.com





Have a wonderful day !


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 5, 2021)

Ok, so I did take some pics, but can't get them on my computer for some reason. UGH! 

Flicka's belly seems to be dropping, she was not as wide from behind when I took the pictures. I noticed a very slight "V" shape which is new.

I did the warm cloth trick after walking her, but was unable to get any milk. Vulva is getting more relax, but it's started to be for at least a week or so... Pelvic muscles are softer. Lots of tail rubbing today, although she might have felt itchy from shedding. Manure was normal, and behavior (feeding habits etc.) were normal, too.

The only thing that is tricky is that although she is bagging up, it still doesn't look as full as some pictures I've seen of mares that were very close to foaling, but who knows ?

I'll be watching her again tonight for sure.

I'll paste this same post on Flicka's foaling thread, so it doesn't get all mixed up.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 6, 2021)

Good morning, 
I was finally able to load the pictures from yesterday. 

Flicka is at day 320 today.
Last night she was more uncomfortable than the previous nights. Lots of tail rubbing and tail switching throughout the night. The vulva was even more relaxed this morning than what you will see in the pictures from yesterday. There were no wrinkles at all when I checked this morning. Bag was also bigger this morning compared to yesterday's pic, but it's normal because I took the picture in the evening. Teats are pointing inwards. Belly is in same position as yesterday, with that slight V shape. (see picture on post #22 for comparison with her "normal pregnancy belly). Manure was normal. Could not get a single drop of milk to test, though


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 6, 2021)

She is looking good! I would agree, she looks to be dropping some. Not quite v‘d yet. Udder is making good progress as well. i agree with you there too, still has some growing to do. But she is looking great!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 6, 2021)

BTW, I forgot to ask... 

What activities do you do to stay awake while you mare stare? Any ideas ? I'm watching her from my tack room and I don't have wifi at the barn. 

For now I've been waking up every 2 hours to check her. Do you think I should watch her more carefully ? Once she shows more obvious signs of impending foaling, I'll be watching her constantly, but I just want your thought on this...


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 6, 2021)

Ok, so here is this evening's report. Things have happened since this morning ! 

I was finally able to test Flicka's milk ! I got one first drop that made me so excited I ended up putting it on the bromine test (I'm using pool test strips). I got frustrated with myself because when I tried to take some more to put it on the pH, there was no more. So I waited a little and was able to get enough to put on both Calcium (Hardness) and on pH...

Calcium was at 500 ppm on the dot, pH was around 7.8 though, maybe 8.0.

What do you think ?


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 6, 2021)

So you have to dilute calcium to get a correct calcium reading. I believe the ratio is 6:1. But it can still be used to see change. As it increases you should start to see ph decrease. With that reading I would feel pretty good about sleeping. But you never know so I would pay attention anyway. Basically who knows lol. That’s the theme of foaling season. In theory you have time, but according to the mare you never know lol. I study during foal watch lol. I also like reading. Can you download a movie or show on like an iPad or something?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 6, 2021)

Ok, so I did not dilute the milk. But I saw several people say that the reading did not change whether they diluted or not. Maybe they were talking about the pH ? Do you have to dilute for the pH to be right ?

Thanks for your help elisabeth.conder. You're right, the whole theme is about "who knows" and "going nuts", lol !


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 6, 2021)

Shes progressing perfectly  I dont think you will have much longer to wait at all !!!

Shes got a great udder , if anything, Id watch for the center line to disappear. She hasn't dropped completely, but she is definitely not as wide as she was.

Best of luck for a safe foaling


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## Taz (Apr 6, 2021)

It sounds like your foaling 'nightmare' will be the next one to end. YAY!!! maryann at miniv has a great way to make sure you wake up. Drink a glass of water before you go to 'bed', you'll be up in 2 hours to pee. Drink another etc. I find getting up is enough to wake me up enough to watch for a while then I sleep till I wake up again or my 2 hour alarm goes off. It's a gamble when you start watching closer. I'm using pH since my mare gives almost no physical signs, I'm hoping she'll at least do what she did last time but ??????. Mine's testing 8/9 and I'm on 2-2 1/2 hour checks but at 325 days. This will make you more crazy than anything else you will do


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 6, 2021)

Taz said:


> It sounds like your foaling 'nightmare' will be the next one to end. YAY!!! maryann at miniv has a great way to make sure you wake up. Drink a glass of water before you go to 'bed', you'll be up in 2 hours to pee. Drink another etc. I find getting up is enough to wake me up enough to watch for a while then I sleep till I wake up again or my 2 hour alarm goes off. It's a gamble when you start watching closer. I'm using pH since my mare gives almost no physical signs, I'm hoping she'll at least do what she did last time but ??????. Mine's testing 8/9 and I'm on 2-2 1/2 hour checks but at 325 days. This will make you more crazy than anything else you will do



Very great trick, Taz ! I'll try tonight for sure ! So far, it wasn't really a nightmare. I think it's just starting... I hope it doesn't last too long! 



Ryan Johnson said:


> Shes progressing perfectly  I dont think you will have much longer to wait at all !!!
> 
> Shes got a great udder , if anything, Id watch for the center line to disappear. She hasn't dropped completely, but she is definitely not as wide as she was.
> 
> Best of luck for a safe foaling



I also think I won't have too much time to wait, but who knows... I'll just have to wait and see!


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## Taz (Apr 6, 2021)

In that case welcome to the club! I did 4 months of foal watch on a little rescue that I had no idea on a due date and she looked close the whole time. That was a nightmare....


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 7, 2021)

If she starts to wax, general rule of thumb is 24-48 hours until foaling. Id also watch for changes to her behavior, restlessness, butt rubbing, biting at sides etc.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 7, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Ok, so I did not dilute the milk. But I saw several people say that the reading did not change whether they diluted or not. Maybe they were talking about the pH ? Do you have to dilute for the pH to be right ?
> 
> Thanks for your help elisabeth.conder. You're right, the whole theme is about "who knows" and "going nuts", lol !



You are correct! No diluting for ph. Only for hardness. Hardness will read high undiluted. I don’t dilute it though, just use it as a guide for ph dropping because the rise in hardness will cause ph to drop. So if I see hardness increasing, a ph drop is sure to follow. My girls dropped ph nice and slow last year. But my friends dropped from 8.4+ to 6.2 in 10-12 hrs. That’s why we watch them closely which it seems is what you are doing. So great job! It’s exhausting but worth it for a healthy foal and mare!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 7, 2021)

Picture I took this morning. I think she's dropping even more... But I may be imagining things. lol.
Lots of butt rubbing this morning against a tree. I did not test the pH this morning, but will do so tonight.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 7, 2021)

Taz said:


> In that case welcome to the club! I did 4 months of foal watch on a little rescue that I had no idea on a due date and she looked close the whole time. That was a nightmare....



Four months of mare watch ????  That's an awful long time !


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## Taz (Apr 7, 2021)

I thought so, lol. After I brought her home the rescue told me the previous owner thought she was due in the next couple of weeks so i started then and just kept going till she had him.
Flicka looks like she's dropped to me but I'm not an expert. Can you get pictures of everything tonight?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 7, 2021)

Taz said:


> I thought so, lol. After I brought her home the rescue told me the previous owner thought she was due in the next couple of weeks so i started then and just kept going till she had him.
> Flicka looks like she's dropped to me but I'm not an expert. Can you get pictures of everything tonight?



I'll try to get some and will get a full report out, if I'm able to.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 7, 2021)

Tonight's report: 
Were at day 321 today. 21 days (exactly 3 weeks) until her due date.  
Tested milk tonight and found pH was pretty much the same (around 8.0). Hardness/calcium increased however. Yesterday it tested at 500 (please note this is not the correct value because I'm not diluting it... I'm just watching if the level is going up or not). Today was at ~ 600-650, maybe 700 or so. Hard to tell because of the big color gap between 500 and 1000. 

Pictures are from this morning, I wasn't able to take any tonight. Udder was the same as this morning. It did not decrease. As you can see on the second picture, teats are starting to fill. 

I posted the first side belly picture earlier this morning, but I included it for those of you who might not have seen it. Forgot to take one from behind.

What do you all think ?


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 7, 2021)

She is certainly starting to drop. Her udder staying the same means you really dont have much longer. I would be surprised if she makes you wait another 3 weeks


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 7, 2021)

Ryan Johnson said:


> She is certainly starting to drop. Her udder staying the same means you really dont have much longer. I would be surprised if she makes you wait another 3 weeks



That's what I though... about her belly starting to drop, I mean. This morning I wasn't sure if my eyes were tricking me or not.  However, I find the pH still quite high. For now, I am more inclined to say we're 1.5 - 2 weeks before foaling, unless there is a drastic drop in pH and bag fills up faster. But we'll see...


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 7, 2021)

No perfectly normal towards the end of a horses pregnancy, that the owners eyes start to do funny things. 

Was she only bred on the one cycle ?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 7, 2021)

Ryan Johnson said:


> No perfectly normal towards the end of a horses pregnancy, that the owners eyes start to do funny things.
> 
> Was she only bred on the one cycle ?



All I know is that she was bred on May 21, 2020. Previous owners didn't tell me more then that, except that her last two foals were born at day 342. I'm lucky enough to have a date. She's had two foals while still with them and they did not make an effort to attend the birth. All they said was they came in the morning, and there was the foal. Vet confirmed that it seemed to be the right date according to the fetus size when she was ultrasounded in July.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 7, 2021)

That udder is looking really good. I agree, I don’t see her making about her 3 weeks. I expect ph will start to drop soon!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 8, 2021)

Bag was even bigger this morning. But one side of it is bigger than the other... is that normal ?
Had a very quiet night. She slept laying down sternal for a while, grazed down her stall... Maybe I missed a good butt rub or two because her tail was a mess this morning. No more elastic to hold her braid, hairs at the base all over the place.


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## Taz (Apr 8, 2021)

Poor girl. I've had the one side of the udder smaller than the other. Well, not personally, but both my mares have done that .


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 8, 2021)

Tonight's report (day 322):
Flicka tested a tiny bit lower for pH than yesterday. There was a very faint orange coloring in the pink. I'd say it must have been between 8.0 and 7.9. TH calcium was higher. It's looking a lot more like 1000 than first day of test (day 320). 

Bag was the same as this morning, if not bigger. Did not get to take a decent picture. Flicka was fidgety and wanted to go back to her stall to eat. I was able to get belly pics though ! If that's not dropping, then I don't know what it is ! I don't think it is completely dropped, but it looks very close to that V !

I'm getting nervously excited... a big mix of emotions ! Happy, anxious, worried and thrilled !


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## Taz (Apr 8, 2021)

She's close. It's insane how worried and excited you can be at the same time. Are you still sleeping or have you started watching all night?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 9, 2021)

Taz said:


> She's close. It's insane how worried and excited you can be at the same time. Are you still sleeping or have you started watching all night?



Sorry Taz,
Just saw this. I was at the barn when you sent it for...guess what... Foal watch 
The last few nights I slept and woke up every 1- 2 hours to check on her. But last night, she was VERY uncomfortable, so I decided to watch her closer. I turned on the monitor, she was just standing in the middle of her stall alert. She usually eats away her hay for half the night.

At first, I thought she might just be alert because she heard me come in. But about ten minutes later, saw her biting her sides, switching her tail, pacing her stall. No need to say, my eyes glued to the screen.

She laid down and rolled, which she hasn't done in a long time. I heard her whinny, it sounded to be from pain...

Just when things were getting interesting, my dog went into a barking frenzy that made her jump back to her feet.

An hour later, she laid down again, after eating a little bit and peeing. She laid down sternal, turned to side. Came back sternal, laid back to side etc... Breathing was labored. Once more, just when things looked interesting, one of the horses made a loud noise in his (or her) stall. She jumped back to her feet. 

Rest of the night was uneventful, she ate etc... at 3 am I closed my eyes to sleep some until 6 am when I take care of the horses.

I believe she may have been attempting to position the foal... But from now on, I'll be definitely staying up to watch her.


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## MerMaeve (Apr 9, 2021)

Good luck! She sounds like she is getting close.


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## Taz (Apr 9, 2021)

It sounds like she's close. I'm hoping for tonight for you.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 9, 2021)

Day 323 update:
Wasn't able to test milk. Not a single drop would come out. If nothing happens tonight, I'll have to try the warm cloth trick again tomorrow. 

Here's a belly pic from this pm. This the result of all that rolling she did last night. 

I'm hoping tonight. Pray that all goes well. I'm terribly nervous, now. I know in the end it will be worth it, but still!


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## Taz (Apr 10, 2021)

Anything last night?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 10, 2021)

Nope. Nothing.
Neighbors decided to shoot several bullets around 10 pm, but he was on his lawn, so quite close. Spooked the whole barn, and sent my dog wild. 

I guess Flicka decided it wasn't a good time to have a foal... and maybe she was right.


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## Taz (Apr 10, 2021)

Maybe tonight  
Neighbors


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 10, 2021)

Taz said:


> Maybe tonight
> Neighbors



I really hope so!!!! I was a bit discouraged this morning.... But I did take some time today to catch on some sleep... Felt so good !  

I sure hope this mare will foal by the book. But if she doesn't, I've been taking notes, so I'll know her pattern for next time.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 11, 2021)

Ok... Flicka has been tricking me for three nights in a row into thinking she might be starting first stage labor. She would eat a bit, then she'd become restless, look at her flanks and bite them, switch her tail, lay down both sternal and on the side, look at her flanks, have labored breathing etc... Only to rise back to her feet and stand up, although staying alert and restless. Then, she'd go back to eating, as though all was normal etc...

This is what she did last night. By 4am, I was so fed up with seeing her do that, I just turned in and SLEPT.

I'm starting to think we might still be ways off from foaling. You know, that stage that everyone goes through when they're like "It's never gonna happen. She'll be pregnant for another thousand years."

But still. Except that the pH is testing to high yet (stays between 8.0 and 7.8), she is showing ALMOST all the signs of imminent labor, save for no wax on teats and a bag not quite ready yet (although much bigger than a few days ago).

So I have a question for all of you. I'd like to know what is your experience of first stage labor and what signs the mare was giving you, or not giving you. Was it by the book, or not ? Did your mare test pH or not ? Etc...

Please don't think I'm being whiny... I just need some encouragement. Thank you.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 11, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Ok... Flicka has been tricking me for three nights in a row into thinking she might be starting first stage labor. She would eat a bit, then she'd become restless, look at her flanks and bite them, switch her tail, lay down both sternal and on the side, look at her flanks, have labored breathing etc... Only to rise back to her feet and stand up, although staying alert and restless. Then, she'd go back to eating, as though all was normal etc...
> 
> This is what she did last night. By 4am, I was so fed up with seeing her do that, I just turned in and SLEPT.
> 
> ...



You’re not being whinny at all! It’s an exhausting time that only people that go through it understand. I totally understand! Many of the foalings I’ve seen were pretty by the book. And although ph is high, it can drop very fast. I’ve seen multiple drop and foal in a matter of 12-24 hrs. One even went from 7.8 to foaling 3 hrs later. This is the hardest stretch because you are so close. I will tell you, I don’t stay up all night till they get closer. I do a check every hr or two but I have help watching in between. When the ph drops then we have eyes on 24/7. That’s why I ph test often. It really won’t harm the colostrum production and it gives me a good idea of what I’m looking at. But the ph WILL drop before foaling. It’s just a matter of how long before. For instance, when my mares are at that full udder high ph stage, I check ph at 8 am, 12 pm, 5 pm, 8/9 pm and then 12/1. Depending on the last check, I may change it a bit. If they are still testing 7.8+ at midnight than I will likely wait till 2:30ish to actually check physically. Still checking frequently on camera. Then another check 2/3 hrs later. But that’s just me. And I have help watching cameras so she’s not really going that long between checks. The last several weeks/days are so exhausted. My fear was getting so exhausted by the days leading up to the actual foaling that I missed the actual foaling.

question, does she belly lift when you check her udder? Look for that if she’s not. That’s another sign of getting close. What is her milk like at this point?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 11, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> You’re not being whinny at all! It’s an exhausting time that only people that go through it understand. I totally understand! Many of the foalings I’ve seen were pretty by the book. And although ph is high, it can drop very fast. I’ve seen multiple drop and foal in a matter of 12-24 hrs. One even went from 7.8 to foaling 3 hrs later. This is the hardest stretch because you are so close. I will tell you, I don’t stay up all night till they get closer. I do a check every hr or two but I have help watching in between. When the ph drops then we have eyes on 24/7. That’s why I ph test often. It really won’t harm the colostrum production and it gives me a good idea of what I’m looking at. But the ph WILL drop before foaling. It’s just a matter of how long before. For instance, when my mares are at that full udder high ph stage, I check ph at 8 am, 12 pm, 5 pm, 8/9 pm and then 12/1. Depending on the last check, I may change it a bit. If they are still testing 7.8+ at midnight than I will likely wait till 2:30ish to actually check physically. Still checking frequently on camera. Then another check 2/3 hrs later. But that’s just me. And I have help watching cameras so she’s not really going that long between checks. The last several weeks/days are so exhausted. My fear was getting so exhausted by the days leading up to the actual foaling that I missed the actual foaling.
> 
> question, does she belly lift when you check her udder? Look for that if she’s not. That’s another sign of getting close. What is her milk like at this point?



Thank you so much for your help and good words, elizabeth.conder !!
You are so right. Only people who are going through this know how it feels. I did the mistake of telling someone who has never experienced foaling or having pregnant mare, and she told me I was worrying too much. It's a good friend of mine, and I know she was concerned about me, but she didn't seem to understand why I take the pain of watching my mare so closely, and why I insist to do all I can to be present. I agree with her, I've got to focus on the best part of it, which will be once I have a healthy foal on the ground. But still.

To answer your questions...
1. Unfortunately, I can't hook up my cam to Mare Watchers, but I will definitely invest in another cam that I can broadcast for any future foalings ! I really see now how helpful it is to have people watching with you around the clock. 

2. I don't mind taking milk from her. So far, I try to test morning and evenings. I'll try to make so time to test at least at noon. I don't know if it's a good idea to test her at midnight. So far, I was trying to disturb her the least possible at night... Any thoughts on that ? Are your mares disturbed by it ?

3. Her milk was clear amber color so far, but I noticed it's turning like .. how can I say... it's whiter/grey, but it looks as though there were dust fine particles... kind of cloudy, but still a little clear. No more amber color though. 

4. I haven't noticed if her belly would lift or not... I didn't know that could be a sign... I'll check later for sure ! 

And again, thank you for all your help. I'm so glad I found this supportive community. Makes me feel so much better to be with people who know what it is like to be going though this.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 11, 2021)

Don’t worry about Marewatchers, I’m talking more do you have anyone that can just come and watch for you a bit so you can rest? A few hrs of undisturbed sleep really helps.

Mine are pretty undisturbed by me coming to check. The thing is, I keep them on a kind of schedule where they get used to me coming at certain times of the night. They kinda learn to expect it. But I modify it based on checks. Like last year, I had a maiden what we knew we knew was close. The day she foaled I checked her at 5ish when I put her up. Then I checked her at 8 because I wanted to switch time just a hit so we had a long break between that check and midnight. Sure enough, she foaled at 9:15. And then another mare I had last year. I checked her at 10, 12, and 2. Then I had someone who could watch for a couple of hrs so I slept till 4 when I was going to check her again, but that friend told me to wait 5 minutes because she was suspicious, sure enough she was laboring and foaled shortly after. So before a check you can watch 5/10 minutes and make sure they are not doing anything suspicious.

The change in milk is good! Any chance you’re willing to taste it lol? That’s another way to check progression. The belly lift will not tell you that she’s going to foal in however many hrs. But it’s a change that happens when they instinctively start lifting to allow the foal to nurse. And that doesn’t occur till they are close. Mine start it a 2/3 days before foaling but some do it for longer before. I just find it useful to use as many signs as possible lol.


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## Taz (Apr 11, 2021)

Not whinny at all, been there done that. This is the absolutely worst part. You're tired and don't know what her pattern is. I'm not as much help as elizabeth.conder but what she's doing seems normal to me. From the way her milk looks I'd say she's really close but, who knows. This probably won't help at all but both my mares had lots of practice runs. Izzy (3 years ago and this year) would look in labor even to the point of laying down and having a couple of contractions then getting up and eating like it never happened. I think she did that for almost 2 weeks before she did it for real. When she really went into labor she was more intense in her behavior and it lasted longer before she started pushing. Tilly (last year) had one prerun where she looked textbook for 1/2 hour then nothing happened. About 3 days before she foaled she started standing and breathing hard for a bit every night and then when she foaled she started that way but instead of going back to eating she lay down and kept breathing hard, stood up for a bit, lay down on the other side, stood up switched sides and then started to push. I'm 300 ft max from my house to the stalls and they both had them before I got there and I ran. Nap as often as you can, I find lots of chocolate helps.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 11, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Don’t worry about Marewatchers, I’m talking more do you have anyone that can just come and watch for you a bit so you can rest? A few hrs of undisturbed sleep really helps.
> 
> Mine are pretty undisturbed by me coming to check. The thing is, I keep them on a kind of schedule where they get used to me coming at certain times of the night. They kinda learn to expect it. But I modify it based on checks. Like last year, I had a maiden what we knew we knew was close. The day she foaled I checked her at 5ish when I put her up. Then I checked her at 8 because I wanted to switch time just a hit so we had a long break between that check and midnight. Sure enough, she foaled at 9:15. And then another mare I had last year. I checked her at 10, 12, and 2. Then I had someone who could watch for a couple of hrs so I slept till 4 when I was going to check her again, but that friend told me to wait 5 minutes because she was suspicious, sure enough she was laboring and foaled shortly after. So before a check you can watch 5/10 minutes and make sure they are not doing anything suspicious.
> 
> The change in milk is good! Any chance you’re willing to taste it lol? That’s another way to check progression. The belly lift will not tell you that she’s going to foal in however many hrs. But it’s a change that happens when they instinctively start lifting to allow the foal to nurse. And that doesn’t occur till they are close. Mine start it a 2/3 days before foaling but some do it for longer before. I just find it useful to use as many signs as possible lol.



Well, I do have good news about foal watch... my brother agreed to come with me and take turns watching and sleeping. Besides, I'm already feeling better by the fact someone will be on site with me if something happens and I need help. 

I was just reading about milk changes in milk, since you reminded me that was a good sign to look at. Seems that most mares will foal in around 2-3 days when that change comes. But we'll see. I think I'll try tasting it to see if it's sweet. LOL.

Really interesting about the belly lift. I'd also like to have as many signs as possible, but it's hard for me since this is the first time I'm going through this, so thanks for telling me !


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 11, 2021)

Taz said:


> Not whinny at all, been there done that. This is the absolutely worst part. You're tired and don't know what her pattern is. I'm not as much help as elizabeth.conder but what she's doing seems normal to me. From the way her milk looks I'd say she's really close but, who knows. This probably won't help at all but both my mares had lots of practice runs. Izzy (3 years ago and this year) would look in labor even to the point of laying down and having a couple of contractions then getting up and eating like it never happened. I think she did that for almost 2 weeks before she did it for real. When she really went into labor she was more intense in her behavior and it lasted longer before she started pushing. Tilly (last year) had one prerun where she looked textbook for 1/2 hour then nothing happened. About 3 days before she foaled she started standing and breathing hard for a bit every night and then when she foaled she started that way but instead of going back to eating she lay down and kept breathing hard, stood up for a bit, lay down on the other side, stood up switched sides and then started to push. I'm 300 ft max from my house to the stalls and they both had them before I got there and I ran. Nap as often as you can, I find lots of chocolate helps.



Taz, this is helpful! Flicka was really faking it of having contractions and like you it lasted 30-40 minutes ! I had texted home to let them know we might be getting into something serious... But out of the blue, she just stood up and resumed eating her meal. So now I know I'm not alone !  And yes, I've been napping as often as I can.

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your insight and experience !


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 11, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Well, I do have good news about foal watch... my brother agreed to come with me and take turns watching and sleeping. Besides, I'm already feeling better by the fact someone will be on site with me if something happens and I need help.
> 
> I was just reading about milk changes in milk, since you reminded me that was a good sign to look at. Seems that most mares will foal in around 2-3 days when that change comes. But we'll see. I think I'll try tasting it to see if it's sweet. LOL.
> 
> Really interesting about the belly lift. I'd also like to have as many signs as possible, but it's hard for me since this is the first time I'm going through this, so thanks for telling me !



That’s great! Between allowing you some more sleep and just having company I bet it will help a lot! You are doing great! I know it’s hard! But you’re almost there and a healthy mare and foal is 100% worth it. And that’s why breeders keep on breeding. The wait is excruciating but the reward is worth it!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 11, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> That’s great! Between allowing you some more sleep and just having company I bet it will help a lot! You are doing great! I know it’s hard! But you’re almost there and a healthy mare and foal is 100% worth it. And that’s why breeders keep on breeding. The wait is excruciating but the reward is worth it!



100% agree. Thank you SO much for taking the time to help me. It really helped me feel better about all this !


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 11, 2021)

This evening's update. (day 325)
pH was 7.8 (same as yesterday).
BUT! Bag is bigger, teats point straight down. And milk not only changed from amber /liquid, to semi-opaque (happened yesterday), but tonight it is sticky and half salty half sweet. It was thick enough that the test strips could not absorb it. It just left a "bubble" of milk on it. She did not lift her belly when I checked her udder.

I did the tail resistance test and resistance was zero ! Vulva is very relax, it almost opens by itself, and color has a nuance of darker pink in it.

Although the belly doesn't have a very pronounced V shape, she is not carrying wide anymore.

Oh well, we'll see. I really hope it happens this week, tonight even better.


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## Taz (Apr 11, 2021)

Good luck, looking forward to seeing pictures of mom and baby tomorrow morning


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 11, 2021)

Taz said:


> Good luck, looking forward to seeing pictures of mom and baby tomorrow morning



Haha ! I hope I will be able to !


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 12, 2021)

Ok, no foal, BUT ! pH dropped from 8.0 - 7.8 to 7.0 when tested this morning!! Milk is even stickier. Flicka was very restless last night!

Sorry, I don't have much time to write more, but just wanted to let you all know !


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 12, 2021)

Exciting!!!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 12, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Exciting!!!



Yes very exciting!!!!
I was so surprised, I tested twice because I thought there was a problem with the strips, LOL!


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 12, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Yes very exciting!!!!
> I was so surprised, I tested twice because I thought there was a problem with the strips, LOL!



on my thread I shared a mare that was close. She tested 7.5 yesterday morning. 6.8 at midnight. Tested again at 4 am and she was 6.0 and foaled 30 minutes later! So your girl may not be too far off!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 12, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> on my thread I shared a mare that was close. She tested 7.5 yesterday morning. 6.8 at midnight. Tested again at 4 am and she was 6.0 and foaled 30 minutes later! So your girl may not be too far off!



Yes I saw your post this morning and when I went to look at the cam, the foal was there! Made me even more excited!


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 12, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Yes I saw your post this morning and when I went to look at the cam, the foal was there! Made me even more excited!




Can't wait to see what your girl is cooking for you!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 12, 2021)

Hello everyone !
More changes since this morning ! I tested at noon, and it was still 7.0. I tested at 5.00 pm (an hour ago), and it was without any doubts at 6.8 ! I'm really thinking we'll have a foal tonight, if not tomorrow night, if it keeps dropping as steadily and if she isn't one of those mares who wants to "rewrite the textbook". 

But so far, she's been following the textbook quite closely for all the other signs...

I'm so excited !!!! ..... and nervous.

BTW, I have a question. I'll be watching from the barn, from the tack room, so I won't need to run from the house when it happens. But when do you go take a look physically during labor ? I really don't want her feel too stressed and stop first stage labor because I came to watch too fast. Hope this question makes sense.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 12, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Hello everyone !
> More changes since this morning ! I tested at noon, and it was still 7.0. I tested at 5.00 pm (an hour ago), and it was without any doubts at 6.8 ! I'm really thinking we'll have a foal tonight, if not tomorrow night, if it keeps dropping as steadily and if she isn't one of those mares who wants to "rewrite the textbook".
> 
> But so far, she's been following the textbook quite closely for all the other signs...
> ...



So exciting!

Makes perfect sense! I usually wait till I see the water break. But that’s just me. There’s not much you can do to intervene before the water breaks. And once it breaks there is no stopping the foaling. Sometimes it’s fine to go once they start acting like they are going to foal but it’s hit or miss if they will delay.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 12, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> So exciting!
> 
> Makes perfect sense! I usually wait till I see the water break. But that’s just me. There’s not much you can do to intervene before the water breaks. And once it breaks there is no stopping the foaling. Sometimes it’s fine to go once they start acting like they are going to foal but it’s hit or miss if they will delay.



perfect! I was thinking that must be the time to go, but just wanted to be sure.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 12, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> perfect! I was thinking that must be the time to go, but just wanted to be sure.



Also as soon as I physically check, I start feeling for legs. Dystocias are easiest To correct early. You should feel one leg with one right behind it. Make sure not to pull them both even or they can get shoulder lock. You probably know that though.


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## Taz (Apr 13, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> So exciting!
> 
> Makes perfect sense! I usually wait till I see the water break. But that’s just me. There’s not much you can do to intervene before the water breaks. And once it breaks there is no stopping the foaling. Sometimes it’s fine to go once they start acting like they are going to foal but it’s hit or miss if they will delay.


I waited till I saw pushing start. Makes me feel better that's what the pros do too.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 13, 2021)

Good morning. No foal yet, but I think very soon !
pH was 6.6 at midnight. Same this morning. Flicka was very restless once again. She lay down a lot, switched her tail all night long (btw, there are no flies yet, so it's not because she is bothered by flies), and yawned a lot too. 

There were lots of cowpies in her stall when I cleaned it this morning. Honestly, with the cow pies in her stall, I'm a bit surprised she didn't foal last night... any thoughts ?

I decided to keep her in her stall today. I let her go out for a short turnout while I cleaned the stalls, but it seems so close, I don't want to take chances. Of course, I'll be checking on her often.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 13, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Also as soon as I physically check, I start feeling for legs. Dystocias are easiest To correct early. You should feel one leg with one right behind it. Make sure not to pull them both even or they can get shoulder lock. You probably know that though.



That's ok. Thanks for reminding me! I'll remember it better !


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## Pitter Patter (Apr 13, 2021)

OOOhhhhhh....SO EXCITING! Can't wait to see pics of your new bundle of joy!


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 13, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Good morning. No foal yet, but I think very soon !
> pH was 6.6 at midnight. Same this morning. Flicka was very restless once again. She lay down a lot, switched her tail all night long (btw, there are no flies yet, so it's not because she is bothered by flies), and yawned a lot too.
> 
> There were lots of cowpies in her stall when I cleaned it this morning. Honestly, with the cow pies in her stall, I'm a bit surprised she didn't foal last night... any thoughts ?
> ...




Good decision! With the cow pies id expect a foal before long. Keeping her in is a great idea. If you don’t have a coveted day time foal, I would be surprised if she does not foal soon after.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 13, 2021)

OK !!! I'm now on extreme alert ! pH just tested 6.2 and there is wax !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll keep you posted, but I don't have more time to write for now!!!


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 13, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> OK !!! I'm now on extreme alert ! pH just tested 6.2 and there is wax !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I'll keep you posted, but I don't have more time to write for now!!!



Here we go! So exciting!!!


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 13, 2021)

Good Luck , sounds like foaling is imminent


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## Taz (Apr 13, 2021)

I keep checking in waiting for the good news and pictures. Good luck for tonight.


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## Willow Flats (Apr 13, 2021)

Taz said:


> I keep checking in waiting for the good news and pictures. Good luck for tonight.


Me too!!!


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 13, 2021)

Me three


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 14, 2021)

Well, no foal yet...  but pH was at 6.0 or lower (no more color boxes to compare) this morning. I don't think she can be lower than that !

In your experience, how long can a mare wait when she is at 6.0 ?


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 14, 2021)

Some can hold out a couple days. Very unusual though. I’d bet in the next 12-24 hrs. When mine tested that low I watched her all day hoping for a day foaling lol. Of course she didn’t foal. But I checked right after dinner then put her up and she foaled about 9:15. Right after it got dark.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 14, 2021)

Good to know ! thanks! I'll be watching very closely!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 14, 2021)

Just tested her again. It's definitely lower than 6.0 now, but I just can't put a value on it. For the strips I'm using (Aquachek), 6.2 is ocher yellow on the chart. When it tested 6.0, it was primary yellow. Now it's a paler yellow than that.

Also, when I took the milk for testing, I saw it was yellow-white ! It is not transparent anymore. Is that colostrum ?


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## Taz (Apr 14, 2021)

So exciting!! Thanks for putting what strips you're using, mine aren't as well defined, I'll have to try them.
I think that's colostrum but elizabeth.conder or maryann at miniv will be along to tell you I'm sure.
She can't hold on much longer, TONIGHT TONIGHT TONIGHT!!!!!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 14, 2021)

Taz said:


> So exciting!! Thanks for putting what strips you're using, mine aren't as well defined, I'll have to try them.
> I think that's colostrum but elizabeth.conder or maryann at miniv will be along to tell you I'm sure.
> She can't hold on much longer, TONIGHT TONIGHT TONIGHT!!!!!



Oh !!! I do hope TONIGHT ! I just hope she hasn't decided to write the foaling textbook all over again. But seeing the pH drop so fast and consistently, I think she'll go by the book. I pray she does !


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## Taz (Apr 14, 2021)

I think she's just waiting on the foal giving her the green light now. How are you holding up?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 14, 2021)

I'm ok, but getting tired ... like everyone who is waiting for foals and staying up at night!


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 14, 2021)

Yes! Yellow/white is a great indicator that foaling is close! Sounds like colostrum to me. I think you have a great chance for a foal tonight.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 14, 2021)

Here is Flicka's belly tonight. That baby is ready to pop out !!!!!!!!!! It's dropped and ready to come ! I am officially extra excited and I really hope tonight is THE night !

I also included some pictures of daddy. I talked a lot about Flicka, but haven't posted a single picture of Jumper.


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## Taz (Apr 14, 2021)

Jumper's lovely.
Just a suggestion if you're leaving her tail braided for foaling. Take it out after she foals, if she swats the foal it will HURT, I'm also paranoid about a foal getting a foot in the braid and being dragged around. Looks READY to me


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 14, 2021)

Taz said:


> Jumper's lovely.
> Just a suggestion if you're leaving her tail braided for foaling. Take it out after she foals, if she swats the foal it will HURT, I'm also paranoid about a foal getting a foot in the braid and being dragged around. Looks READY to me



Very good advice, Taz, I will certainly do that! I did a braid, because somehow, I am paranoid about tying a bandage too tightly on her tailbone, because of poor blood circulation. But, yes, as soon as the foal is out, I'll make sure get that tail unbraided !


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## Willow Flats (Apr 14, 2021)

Speaking of tails....Jumper has a really nice one!!!

Very excited for you. Hopefully tonight!


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 15, 2021)

She certainly "looks ready"


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## Taz (Apr 15, 2021)

Going a little crazy wondering how they're doing. Anything???


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 15, 2021)

I have been checking in all day as well. Hope everything is okay.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

Well ! LOOONNGGGG night and its not over. But we have a colt !!!!!!!! He was born tonight at 10pm.

The only thing is he is currently fighting for his life. It was a red bag delivery that 2 stage labor happened in 5-10 seconds (not joking !). Was so fast, I believe that had I been at home watching on monitor, I would not have been able to run fast enough to get there before he lacked oxygen from the deadly sack. He popped out! But according to vet, he is borderline premature, and the smallest she's seen so far in minis. One hour after his birth he was not standing. 2 hours after, he was standing with help. We tried putting him to nurse, did not want to latch even when he had suckling reflex. I seringed him a few ml of milk, but he would'nt take more. I had called the vet. She got here at 2am and tubed him. We gave hime a full dose of colostrum, blanketed him, put a warm water bottle beside him to give him warmth.

If you have any ideas to help, please do not hesitate. I am open to ALL suggestions to help him.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

UPDATE:
The little boy is doing better, thanks to that colostrum the vet tubed into him. I've just bottle fed him some more milk. Try as he might, he can't find where to latch on Flicka, but he's been looking at the right place, so there is improvement compared to earlier. He is now sleeping under a pile of blankets and his warm water bottle. 

He really wants to fight, now that he was given that milk. I am praying for that little man with all my heart.


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## Taz (Apr 16, 2021)

Oh no! The repo vet here told me they need to be fed as much as they will eat every 1/2 hour. Keep him eating and warm and put a bit of milk on Ficka's teats. Give him the chance to nurse before you feed him each time so he's hungry and trying to figure it out but then make sure he gets enough. I'm so sorry he's having problems. A lot of them have a hard time figuring out where/how to use the milk bar in the beginning, just keep at it.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

Taz said:


> Oh no! The repo vet here told me they need to be fed as much as they will eat every 1/2 hour. Keep him eating and warm and put a bit of milk on Ficka's teats. Give him the chance to nurse before you feed him each time so he's hungry and trying to figure it out but then make sure he gets enough. I'm so sorry he's having problems. A lot of them have a hard time figuring out where/how to use the milk bar in the beginning, just keep at it.



Just came back from feeding him and he latched for a few seconds, before I gave him the bottle. I'm going to install a heat lamp to help him and I'm constantly supplying him with hot water bottles around him and under his pile of blankets


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)




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## Willow Flats (Apr 16, 2021)

So sweet.. Praying for this little one to thrive and for stamina for you as you tend to all his needs! Hoping to hear he has latched when I check back in.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

Willow Flats said:


> So sweet.. Praying for this little one to thrive and for stamina for you as you tend to all his needs! Hoping to hear he has latched when I check back in.


 
Thank you very much! All prayers and thoughts are appreciated ! 

My brother tried helping him to nurse again, and he latched on for several gulps, except, he lost balance and unlatched. He was getting tired, so I bottled him. He is actually eating pretty much what the vet said he needs. The vet figured 75mL every 4 hours, and he is taking 10-20 mL every half-hour, if he keeps doing like that, he'll be getting between 80-160 mL every 4 hours. 

He also had no problem passing meconium and urine several times, which is a relief.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 16, 2021)

Have you tried the madigan squeeze? A lot of time red bag foals are born as dummy foals because of the limited oxygen. It’s worth a try and won’t hurt. I’ve seen several have to use it this year with great results. The difficulty nursing and problem standing sound textbook dummy. Praying for y’all! If you do the squeeze it’s important to squeeze hard enough and hold it that he kinda passes out or it will look that way. And you have to hold it the whole 10 minutes. You can even try it several times need be.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Have you tried the madigan squeeze? A lot of time red bag foals are born as dummy foals because of the limited oxygen. It’s worth a try and won’t hurt. I’ve seen several have to use it this year with great results. The difficulty nursing and problem standing sound textbook dummy. Praying for y’all! If you do the squeeze it’s important to squeeze hard enough and hold it that he kinda passes out or it will look that way. And you have to hold it the whole 10 minutes. You can even try it several times need be.



No, did not try. I told the vet about it, but she tried some pressure points, on the gums and between the tail and anus. It seemed to work, as he was just lying down, and all of a sudden, he stood up. But I'll try that for sure. By the way, you said I have to squeeze until he seems to pass out. Can he actually be harmed from it ? Just wondering...


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 16, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> No, did not try. I told the vet about it, but she tried some pressure points, on the gums and between the tail and anus. It seemed to work, as he was just lying down, and all of a sudden, he stood up. But I'll try that for sure. By the way, you said I have to squeeze until he seems to pass out. Can he actually be harmed from it ? Just wondering...



He won’t full on pass out. It will look like it. Basically just a deep sleep. There are a lot of videos on YouTube that you can see what it’s supposed to look like. No it won’t harm him at all. I’ve seen people do it 15-20 times with no side effects. All it is doing it mimicking the birth canal. There is a hormone that foals have in the womb that keeps them basically sedated. During foaling, the pressure and act causes the hormone to get turned off. But when there is an abnormal foaling, it doesn’t always happen. So the squeeze mimic is the birth canal and is supposed to turn off that hormone. ThT is why it’s important to hold it. With full sized horses they use a rope to squeeze. Just easier to use arms for a mini.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

Ok. We did it twice, he definitely was more alert, had less trouble standing, but he still walks in a wobbly manner. He lay down, stood up about 5 times without falling and was much better at latching, although, he was still too unsteady to keep at it. 

We'll go back and do it some more, especially if we can do it as much as 20-15 times. 
Two questions however. I am supposed to set him back standing or laying down ? 
Also, if I tried it a few times, took a break and then did it again, is it still good, or should i do it, say 5 times in a row without taking a break ?


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 16, 2021)

It doesn’t matter too much on how you set him down. Did your vet say anything about testing his igG? I would give him a break between. They won’t be automatically better but should gradually improve.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> It doesn’t matter too much on how you set him down. Did your vet say anything about testing his igG? I would give him a break between. They won’t be automatically better but should gradually improve.



Yes, the vet said she could test his igG if he improved by the weekend. I need to call her later and talk to her about it.

great to know that they improve gradually. That is what I noticed. Last time we tried, he followed his mommy around, which he hasn't really done yet. I'll do it again, because since it doesn't hurt him, it's worth a try.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 16, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Yes, the vet said she could test his igG if he improved by the weekend. I need to call her later and talk to her about it.
> 
> great to know that they improve gradually. That is what I noticed. Last time we tried, he followed his mommy around, which he hasn't really done yet. I'll do it again, because since it doesn't hurt him, it's worth a try.



It is recommended to get the igG done within the first 24-48 hrs. If there is an issue there it is best treated as early as possible. How is he now?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

Yes. Vet said she might do it on Saturday. He is better, more alert, but did not drink enough on Flicka and was hungry, so I bottle fed him and he is now napping under his pile of blankets and heatlamp. Weather is nasty and humid outside. I wonder why it always have to be so when things like that happen...


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## Taz (Apr 16, 2021)

I'm so happy he's picking up!! My foal last year was a red bag and he ate(after being gotten started and his mom working with him on it), walked and followed mom but wasn't home for the first three days when he suddenly woke up. I didn't squeeze him because I wasn't comfortable using a rope on him, the arm method is great! Thank you elizabeth.conder for bringing that up!!!!! What kind of bottle are you using? I couldn't get mine to take a bottle.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

Taz said:


> I'm so happy he's picking up!! My foal last year was a red bag and he ate(after being gotten started and his mom working with him on it), walked and followed mom but wasn't home for the first three days when he suddenly woke up. I didn't squeeze him because I wasn't comfortable using a rope on him, the arm method is great! Thank you elizabeth.conder for bringing that up!!!!! What kind of bottle are you using? I couldn't get mine to take a bottle.



I used a regular human baby bottle that holds 125mL, so pretty small. He didn't understand at first, but I took some milk and put it on the nipple so he would taste and smell the milk. Next, I put the bottle in his mouth and GENTLY pressed the nipple to get a few drops in his mouth and was very careful not to send a squirt in his lungs. He quickly understood, although he drank only a few sips that first time. But now, he takes between 10-20mL every half hour.


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## Taz (Apr 16, 2021)

That's awesome. Is he any steadier on his feet?


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## MerMaeve (Apr 16, 2021)

Congratulations on a cute colt!! It's not a surprise he is a cutie, as both parents are beautiful!   

Hoping for a quick recovery!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 16, 2021)

Hello everyone, 
just wanted to let you know that the little boy, which I haven't even named yet, went down hill again, even if he was getting enough milk and we did the madigan squeezes. He is just as weak as when he was born, even 24 hours old. Called the vet and decided his best chance was to get him and momma to the provincial vet school. Just came back from hauling them there. 

They are supposed to call soon when they get their checkup done. I'm off to bed. Hardly slept since he was born, yesterday. 
At least, I know they are in good hands and among a very experienced team. But I already miss them!


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## Taz (Apr 17, 2021)

I'm so sorry! Praying he's going to make it.


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## Willow Flats (Apr 17, 2021)

I hope you were able to get some sleep. Praying for him!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 17, 2021)

UPDATE:
The vet school called and here is the report. The vet says that she evaluated him and he is indeed a premature, and should have stayed in mommy that extra two weeks until due date. His lungs are not developed fully yet, although he is ok for oxygen. He may have kidney disfunction because he is too young, they were going to monitor that too. And they asked me if he had urinated and passed his meconium. They were worrying about a bladder rupture, but I told him I SAW him urinate at least 3 times, so They are just going to watch that. They had to give him plasma because of bad IgG, although it's not the worse case. They are also giving an intravenous perfusion to help him out. 

I'm glad they are tubing him. I have this impression that this is what helped him most when the vet came to do it here.

The vet who takes care of his case stayed with him all night.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 17, 2021)

Also, thanks for your prayers. Little guy is a fighter, but he needs all the help he can get. I've started a Go Fund Me, just telling you in case someone wants to share it on social media.


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## Willow Flats (Apr 17, 2021)

Do you have a link to your Go Fund Me?


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 17, 2021)

Yes, here is the link. Goal amount is in CAD (Canadian dollar).









Help save «Ti-Pou» miniature horse foal., organized by Daniel Vuillaume


"Ti-pou" was born at 10pm, April 15, to his mother Flicka. Here is his stor… Daniel Vuillaume needs your support for Help save «Ti-Pou» miniature horse foal.



ca.gofundme.com





I'll be honest with all of you, I just got a call from the vet school an hour ago for another update from faculty professor. Prognosis from x-rays taken this morning is not looking good as his legs are underdeveloped (cartilage stade only) and he would need avoid putting ANY weight on them. They would need to cast him in order to stop him from standing, and vet said there are high risks for resulting in leg deformation from those casts. That means he can't nurse, stand etc... I'm am torn between having him stay there another 3 weeks at minimum plus treatments, casts, not being able to pay the vet bill... (we are talking of several extra thousand dollars) or letting him go. I've been doing all I can. I hauled him there to know what could be done and to give in a better chance, but my financial situation doesn't allow me to go further.

However, whatever the outcome or decision I take, there are vet bills to be paid. So if any of you can just share this Go Fund Me link, please do. I'm not pressing anyone to help. Please feel free.

PS- BTW, Ti-pou is a French nickname for "little guy". I did not have the time to name him yet.


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## Taz (Apr 17, 2021)

You are in a horrible situation, I'm so sorry. It's a hard decision to make, I would suggest you take a day and make sure you are OK with what you decide either way.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 17, 2021)

Yes. That's I'm going to do. I want to be at peace with whatever decision I take. But after so many sleep lacking nights, it's hard to think about normal things, let alone about my foal in hospital.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 17, 2021)

Ugh I’m so sorry you are having to go through this. It is not an easy decision I know.


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 18, 2021)

I am sorry to announce that I took the sad decision to let him go. I am at peace with my decision, as I know that I did all I could for him. Taking him to the hospital and getting a clear mind of all his future challenges through all the tests and x-rays helps me a lot to accept this reality. Had I taken this decision without knowing all this, would have made me regret it forever. Now, I am at peace.

I forever thank you all your support during this whole thread, whether good moments or bad ones. I am really thankful I found this supportive community. Even if they are not on the forum, I thank the CHUV (Vet school) team for their long hours and tireless efforts to save "Ti-Pou", also the transport company who accepted to do transport with very short notice, and who will now be transporting Flicka home, today.

I want to do something to remember "Little Guy", but I don't know what yet. If you have ideas...

Once again, thank you very much.

Rest in peace, Little Guy, you were, and is still loved.


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## Willow Flats (Apr 18, 2021)

Very sorry to hear about Ti-pou. You poured a lot of love into his short life. Hugs to you and your family.


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## MerMaeve (Apr 18, 2021)

Oh I'm so sorry!!  Hugs to you and Flicka.


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 18, 2021)

So sorry for your loss, my thoughts are with you.


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## Abby P (Apr 18, 2021)

I'm so sorry to hear he didn't make it but it absolutely sounds like you made the right decision for him.


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## mrichmond (Apr 18, 2021)

I am so terribly sorry. My heart goes out to you and Flicka.


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## elizabeth.conder (Apr 19, 2021)

So very sorry! Sounds like a very difficult decision to make and you did all you could. Praying for you and Flicka!


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## JFNM miniatures (Apr 19, 2021)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and prayers. I feel supported, and while it can't get the pain to stop, it still helps. I don't have many words. It's terribly painful, even if I know this was the right choice. From the start, I did all I could to give him the best start in life. And then I get this awful first time experience. Still hard to understand. I'm going to start a new thread about caring for Flicka, now that she lost her foal. If anyone can give me advice for her, thanks. I need to take care of her as I know she is also grieving...


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## Cayuse (Apr 19, 2021)

Saw on another thread that you lost your colt. I'm sorry for the loss.


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## Tracy Sue (Apr 20, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> I am sorry to announce that I took the sad decision to let him go. I am at peace with my decision, as I know that I did all I could for him. Taking him to the hospital and getting a clear mind of all his future challenges through all the tests and x-rays helps me a lot to accept this reality. Had I taken this decision without knowing all this, would have made me regret it forever. Now, I am at peace.
> 
> I forever thank you all your support during this whole thread, whether good moments or bad ones. I am really thankful I found this supportive community. Even if they are not on the forum, I thank the CHUV (Vet school) team for their long hours and tireless efforts to save "Ti-Pou", also the transport company who accepted to do transport with very short notice, and who will now be transporting Flicka home, today.
> 
> ...



I just saw your post!  I am so sorry to hear of all the complications & everything you have been through. My heartbreaks for you  So sorry. Hugs


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