# Collar and Hames



## BannerBrat (Oct 23, 2011)

Hello,

A friend of mine told me the other day if I got a collar to fit I'd never go back to a breast collar, even the wonderful freedom collar I have. She's quite knowledgable and so I'm going to try to put as much time and money as I can into exploring this option. Up til now I haven't paid too much attention to collars. I've never put aa collar together myself, though I've got the basic idea. Any pictures, advice, experiences, etc, are appreciated!


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## disneyhorse (Oct 23, 2011)

I have plenty of experience using and fitting full collars... however, I want to say that they are MUCH MUCH harder to fit properly than a breastcollar. You can buy a variety of pads to fit your horse better if you go with a collar that is a touch bigger than you might need.

As horses gain and lose weight, sometimes they change collar sizes.

Breastcollar designers spend a lot of time trying to make them as ergonomically close to a full collar as they can though!

I don't know if they make them in small sizes, but the adjustable collars they make now for draft horses are pretty nice because the fit is so versatile. For instance, they make a 26-28" adjustable collar, which has three different notches, so it spans three collar sizes! If they make them for little guys, that would be the way to go.







Above is an image of an adjustable collar. You can see it has buckles on the sides, not just the top at the collar cap. This allows the collar cap to slide up to make it bigger, or pull in tighter to make it smaller.

I hope this helps any.

Andrea


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## BannerBrat (Oct 23, 2011)

Thanks Andrea, everything helps!  I can see what you mean about the adjustable collar, if I can find a nice mini one I'd be thrilled. I understand that they are hard to fit. Care to share any tips/ key things to look for in fitting the collar?


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## Shari (Oct 23, 2011)

I tried to find one that would fit Maggie well, in the past. Lets just say for many mini's, finding someone that makes them properly sized for Miniature horses, isn't possible, at least from what I have personally seen.

Now if you live close to a good harness maker, one that knows how to make collars and can make one custom sized for your mini, you might get lucky.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Good luck in your search.


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## Sue_C. (Oct 24, 2011)

I have a couple of well-fitting full collars and hames, and a couple of Super V (similar to comfy fit) breast collars, and would take the Super V's over the big old heavy full collars any day...especially with the higher draught of most pleasure carts. Back several years ago, I would of agreed with your friend...but breast collars have come a LO-O-N-G way.


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## Margo_C-T (Oct 24, 2011)

We have all heard that,'ideally', neck collars/hames are the 'best'. Problem is, getting proper fit is next to impossible, esp. in mini sizes.Even one of the top experts in harness fit wrote in one article that the ONLY neck collar she EVER found that actually ended up a proper, non-injurous fit for her mare was a VERY, VERY expensive one that had to be custom-ordered from the UK!!

In my own experience...I bought a good(no, not the highest priced available, but a good quality)collar,hames/short tugs, from Chimicum, a quality supplier, after CAREFULLY taking measurements according to specific directions. It 'sort of' fits the mini I got it for...but it is clear that it would NOT work if in regular use. PLUS, it IS heavy and unwieldy...and was also more costly than MOST breast collars.

I agree 100% that the newer, 'V' designed breast collars are a great choice for minis, even those who are really 'working'.I have onebreast collar that is a moderate V(part of the beta bi single harness I got for my original "B" mini, and even than works VERY well. It is my goal to get a good 'deep V'design(available from at least a couple of quality harness makers)for my 32-34" horses, as soon as I am financially able!!My advice would be to not waste your money on a neck collar, but go for a quality 'deep V' design in the proper size and configuration.

Margo


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm going to second, third and fourth the advice you've gotten here. I agree that the collar and hames is the best ergonomic model, period. You can't beat the simplicity and efficiency of the design. They are correct and awesome for any sort of draft work. However fitting them to a mini SUCKS!!



I can't personally stand the look of the buggy collar Chimacum sells for minis (I don't like the dull leather, the width of the collar especially at the top, the lack of shape and the fact you can't get the hames in brass anymore) but I bought one anyway to try out and I swear Kody's entire neck disappeared into it. Now I could have lived with that if it had worked nicely for him, but he told me immediately that he was NOT fond of the anchor around his neck and I ran into a little problem with his conformation...he's got a lowset neck which is wider at the bottom than the top when he's standing so a collar that fit when he was relaxed would have been rolling around once he started using his topline, and one that fit when his neck was properly arched was way too tight when he's standing!



He also has narrow shoulders as far as the meaty surface area available for a collar to sit on so that would have been a problem as well. I could also see that conditioning his shoulders to regular fast-paced work against such a hard surface was going to be a painful process and I decided on the spot that it wasn't worth it. If I were going to do any sort of draft or agricultural work I would buy a collar, but then again the horse isn't going to be trotting at speed cross-country during that sort of labor so their shoulders wouldn't take such a soring.

Two other things to consider are the draught arrangement your carts have and how the end of the shafts are going to interact with your collar. Neck collars should not be used with horizontal draft like most EE's and show carts have! Even if you lower the singletree, you may then find that the shaft tips get hooked on your collar or short tugs and cause all sorts of problems. Blegh! I've watched friends go through that. Funny thing, even the ones who drove in collars for a few years have gone back to the new shaped breastcollars as being the better option.

If you don't already have it, buy yourself a copy of Barb Lee's "Understanding Harness" and then you'll have a better idea of what you're looking at and why folks with easier-to-fit horses love neck collars so much. I'd love to have one but for me, with my individual minis, it just wasn't feasible with the dollars I had available and the products currently on the market.

Leia


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## BannerBrat (Oct 24, 2011)

blah, I think for now I'm going to just keep thinking on it. I'm working on customizing my metal ee cart, and now have the draft pulling from the axle which is much better.  It's frustrating to find good mini equipment, though what my current harness is nothing to scoff at, lol. Thank you guys, I'll keep you posted if I end up trying anything that really works.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 25, 2011)

BannerBrat said:


> I'm working on customizing my metal ee cart, and now have the draft pulling from the axle which is much better.


Really? I want pix!!

Leia


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## BannerBrat (Oct 25, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Really? I want pix!!
> 
> Leia


Lol, it's not pretty. and it's a little noisy. However the break strength on everything I used is about 3,000lbs(the chain is over 5,000 LOL). so I don't have to worry about that breaking. This lowers the draft a lot. I'll get pictures hitched when I can. The singletree is attached to the chain, there's a string that I used to keep the singletree up but it doesn't take any weight.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 25, 2011)

BannerBrat said:


> Lol, it's not pretty. and it's a little noisy. However the break strength on everything I used is about 3,000lbs (the chain is over 5,000 LOL). so I don't have to worry about that breaking. This lowers the draft a lot. I'll get pictures hitched when I can. The singletree is attached to the chain, there's a string that I used to keep the singletree up but it doesn't take any weight.


Uww, interesting! I know people do that with big horse carts but hadn't figured out how to do so around the low basket of the mini vehicles. Could you wrap the chain with vet wrap or something similar to reduce the clinking? That's worked for me on similar applications.

Leia


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