# Dusty



## Marsha Cassada (Nov 21, 2011)

I've had a bad feeling for several months that Dusty is not sound. I tried to tell myself he just didn't quite know how to use his young body and that with muscle buildup and good nutrition he would be fine.

Last Tuesday we had a 5 mile cart trek with other drivers. 5 is a little farther than usual, but we do 4 frequently so it wasn't a case of being out of condition. A little on pavement but mostly on nice soft surface.

He seemed fine when we got home, but every day moved a little slower until yesterday he would hardly move at all. I gave him some banamine, which helped.

Today he is moving, but barely. I recall, trying to look back and see a sequence, that he objected to the crupper at first while harnessing for the drive. I usually lift the tail and massage a little. He did not want me to lift his tail. Being in denial, I just thought he was being silly. Also, I notice just in the last month he is wearing the toes on his hind hooves, as though they are dragging a little.

He was bitten by a rattlesnake at 2 1/2 and nearly died. (I believe the tooth issues were caused by that, but who can say for sure?) He does no jumping and I do not lunge; his ground work is all straight work, except for bending excercises. He did not begin pulling the cart until he was 3. Last trim was 4 weeks ago and trimmer commented he has good feet. He has never borne weight on his back. To my knowledge, neither his dam nor sire have any issues.

He is eating fine. I did start him on a joint supplement a few weeks ago. I don't detect any swelling.

He is so friendly and willing. I am just sick with worry.

I have an appt tomorrow with vet (luckily I already had the appt because of tooth maintainance). What shall I ask him? How can I find out what's going on? I have never had a horse with this issue so have no experience.

I did not give banamine today; hate to leave him in obvious pain but I think the vet can tell better what is going on if Dusty has no banamine.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 21, 2011)

Anything to report from the vet yet? I hope he is going to be okay, maybe he just needs a chiro adjustment.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 21, 2011)

The vet appt is tomorrow. He's had chiro treatments, but it's been since June for the last one so maybe it is a good option to try. It is chill and rainy today so I put a blanket on him. He seems be be moving a little easier today. I saw him trot briefly.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 21, 2011)

Hopefully thats a good sign (the trotting) When you said he didn't want his tail lifted I couldn't help wondering if he has slipped while playing or even just stepped down wrong and put his back out. Sorry about the misunderstanding, somehow I thought your post was from yesterday and the vet was coming today. I hate to have to wait when one of my animals is sick




and I'm sure tomorrow seems a long way off to you right now.


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## susanne (Nov 22, 2011)

Have you had a chiropractor check him out? You might ask your vet if he has any to recommend. (I'm sorry, I don't remember if you've talked about this before.)


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 22, 2011)

IT sounds like Dusty might have lingering nerve damage from the rattlesnake bite. I sure hope the vet has good news for you and whatever is causing the trouble is fixable.



Waiting for answers is probably the hardest part - I hope you get some!


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 22, 2011)

The vet found no swelling and he felt along his spine. He could see that obviously Dusty wasn't moving right. Today Dusty did not mind his tail being lifted or handled.

He said the rattlesnake venom has been known to cause heart problems but he's never heard of it causing joint issues. He did not rule out arthritis (Dusty is 4 1/2) and also suggested EPM as a possible culprit. He said he did not see anything glaringly wrong with Dusty's conformation.

I showed him the supplements I give the boys and he said to do the joint supplement but cut back to 1/3 on the vitamin supplement (I use Smarkpak).

Also have a call into the chiropractor.

The good news, his tooth problem (caused by a cap that didn't shed) is slowly fixing itself and his 5 year permanent teeth are coming in nicely in front!

I think he will just need to lay off work for quite awhile--maybe he will never drive again. We will wait and see how he does.

Thanks for your support!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 22, 2011)

I was so hoping for a quick an definitive answer for you.



But don't give up on him yet, give him some lay off time, get a chiro in to work on him and see how he is after that. Did the vet run any tests or just offer possibilities?


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 22, 2011)

My trimmer was here this evening and she said Dusty has classic acute laminitis.

So he is on dry lot with an IR diet for a while.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 23, 2011)

I missed this update yesterday but I responded on the main forum to your laminitis post. Hang in there, at least you know what you are dealing with now.


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## Shari (Nov 23, 2011)

Sorry to hear you are having to go through that.... can be hard to deal with, but I find most horse's pull through and go on to be ridden(for big horses) or Driven.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 23, 2011)

Are you sure it was caused by feed and not concussion?

Laminitis was very common in the days of horses working for a living...

Although I doubt one of our spoiled beasties would ever be worked hard enough to actually have this the cause, it is just an idea.

Has it frozen where you are?


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 23, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Are you sure it was caused by feed and not concussion?
> 
> Laminitis was very common in the days of horses working for a living...
> 
> ...


I thought about concussion, as part of our drive was on pavement. I recall we mostly walked this time--we were talking our heads off.

My trimmer suspects the rich grass. We had rain after the terrible drought and the grass is lush. We have had a light frost, enough to kill some plants but not all. I know that does affect grass sugars.

I talked with the vet today and told him the trimmer is sure it is laminitis. He disagrees. But I have to go with the trimmer's extensive experience and believe she knows what she's talking about. OUr vets are good, but they deal mostly with market animals and dont' really have the experience with specific issues like the trimmer has.

Luckily, Dusty is in a very early stage. She believes we can get him under control without too much trouble, by diet. The problem, for me, is the long term management plan...

I've just been thinking how much in common Dusty had with your spotted toad when he was beginning his training! Now he is working so well. I was looking forward to holiday parades with him this year.


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## ThreeCFarm (Nov 23, 2011)

Marsha, what supplement is Dusty on? If he is IR, glucosamine should be avoided.

Why does she think he is laminitic? I would think even the vets in your area would be able to ID a laminitic horse, it isn't like it is some rare disease. Did your vet even use hoof testers to see if he was sore in his hooves? I would request it in a situation like that even if the vet didn't seem inclined to do it.


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## brasstackminis (Nov 23, 2011)

ThreeCFarm said:


> Marsha, what supplement is Dusty on? If he is IR, glucosamine should be avoided.



I had never heard this. What is the reasoning behind avoiding glucosamine?

I have not researched IR in horses much as I have not had a horse with this problem, but I have heard that most people in the US are Magnesium deficient. I would guess that are animals are too. Lack of magnesium in the body causes all sorts of troubles, and one of them is being IR. The more sugar your body ingests, the more deficeint in Magnesium you get. An interesting thing I have been thinking about lately...I soak my feet in Epsom salt to increase my magnesium levels. Magnesium is eaiser to get into your system transdermally (through your skin) than through your digestive system. The thing I have thought about is this...I know a lot of people soak their horses feet in Epsom salt when they have lameness in the hoof or abcesses. I have even heard of Epsom salt used for laminitis. I also know that supplements for IR contain Magnesium in them. So maybe it is the Magnesium crossing transdermally that is helping the body to process the sugar and inadvertantly helping the laminitis??? Just my recent thinking. My friend has been treating her high blood pressure and blood sugar levels with a triad of Magnesium, Vitamin D and B vitamin shots. It is remarkable! I mean she will have pressures of like 190/100 and an hour after vitamin D and some magnesium she is 118/72! Her sugar levels take longer. I am just saying these things are fairly cheap so it might be worth a try.

Karen


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 23, 2011)

How can I find out if he is IR? I wouldn't have thought he was.

I did start him on a joint supplement about 2 weeks ago, which contains glucosamine.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 24, 2011)

Marsha Cassada said:


> How can I find out if he is IR? I wouldn't have thought he was.
> 
> I did start him on a joint supplement about 2 weeks ago, which contains glucosamine.


I would see that as a great big red flag.

Stop the glucosamine and have him blood tested for IR- it is really simple. If your Vet will not/cannot do it, request a referral- you can send blood samples through the post to almost anywhere in insulated containers.

Since he has only been on Glucosamine a short while it will not kill him to stop, especially as I would have him on Bute by now, which would do the same (actually, I do not highly rate Glucosamine- it works or it does not work, there seems to be no in between and it is expensive. I have seen it work. I have seen it do nothing at all. Both my own horses. So, it is far form a cure all and I would not count on it working. Bute on the other hand, although it comes with a "handle with care" notice, always works!)


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## ThreeCFarm (Nov 24, 2011)

brasstackminis, I don't remember exactly, I just know glucosamine is on the list of no-nos for an IR horse. You can google it.

Marsha, you can have Dusty blood tested. I would just treat him as if he were IR at this point to let him stabilize, then have him tested.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 25, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear Dusty is having trouble again.



That's heartbreaking!

Leia


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## Roxane Martin (Nov 26, 2011)

This doesn't sound like laminitis, although the rich grass could certainly cause it. I have had foundered horses, most recently from Cushings. Typically laminitis presents as horse rocking back on heels, trying to get weight off of toes--dragging toes doesn't seem to fit. Also raised digital pulse and/or hoof wall heat--hoof tester would give clue. If you don't trust your vet, then see about another equine vet. You need to know rotation of coffin bone, if any, via x-rays.

You don't want to guess on this--the faster you get the pressure relieved and angle adjusted, the better the outcome, but make sure it's laminitis first so you aren't treating the wrong thing.

Good luck....


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## patrpbfl (Dec 2, 2011)

I've never posted on here, but your Dusty sounds just like my Dancer started out. She HAS been diagnosed as IR, but my vet was very resistant to admitting it until I insisted she be tested. If you check out the Yahoo website for IR/Cushings horses, there is soooo much useful info on there on how to help your mini. The site is moderated by a vet as well as volunteers, so you can see what other people are dealing with. It has been invaluable to me in my efforts to get my mini back to optimum health. Good luck!


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 9, 2011)

Dusty seems back to normal. He is galloping and frisking now. I was thinking he may have to lay off driving for several months but after watching his antics I am wondering if he can go back to work pretty soon?

Should I will wait until after his next trim and see what the trimmer suggests?

What is your experience with a horse going back to work after a laminitis attack?


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm so glad to hear Dusty is doing better.




I can't really offer any advice to you since my mare who had issues was already in lay off due to winter and foaling si it was many months and many trims before I put her back into work. I would think waiting for advice from someone who can see him and knows him well would be a good idea.


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 9, 2011)

Marsha Cassada said:


> Dusty seems back to normal. He is galloping and frisking now. I was thinking he may have to lay off driving for several months but after watching his antics I am wondering if he can go back to work pretty soon?
> 
> Should I will wait until after his next trim and see what the trimmer suggests?
> 
> What is your experience with a horse going back to work after a laminitis attack?


I hate to say this but from the way you describe this I am thinking navicular disease... It comes on gradually, gets worse with exercise and better fairly immediately with rest. They quite often drag their toes. You could have the vet try nerve blocks and xrays. What do his feet look like? Could you post closeup photos of his feet from the side and of the bottom?


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 10, 2011)

MiLo Minis said:


> I hate to say this but from the way you describe this I am thinking navicular disease... It comes on gradually, gets worse with exercise and better fairly immediately with rest. They quite often drag their toes. You could have the vet try nerve blocks and xrays. What do his feet look like? Could you post closeup photos of his feet from the side and of the bottom?


I did not know Miniatures could get navicular. He has never carried weight nor worked that hard. I thought that was a QH thing, especially for horses ridden too hard too soon.


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 11, 2011)

Marsha Cassada said:


> I did not know Miniatures could get navicular. He has never carried weight nor worked that hard. I thought that was a QH thing, especially for horses ridden too hard too soon.


Miniatures are horses and any horse can get navicular. Concussion from being worked too hard on hard ground or in any way that causes more stress on one side of the hoof than the other such as tight cornering or jumping on uneven ground can cause navicular disease and there are certain Quarter horse families that have become known for it mostly because their feet are too small to carry their weight BUT any horse can get navicular if a cause is there. There can be a hereditary prediliction, conformation faults such as steep shoulders and upright pasterns, narrow upright feet, bad trimming where the farrier trims the heel too low and puts the hoof out of line from the pastern, or injuries to the hoof.


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 13, 2011)

What little info there is on navicular, it seems to hit the front feet worst. Dusty's problem was definitely in the hind. I'm going to keep that in mind, however, as it never occured to me before.

He is still galloping and frolicking like crazy and tormenting Dapper Dan. I turned him out in the pasture again a couple of weeks ago and started him again on his vitamins. I have NOT continued the oats and boss, however. He is back on alfalfa, wisk-broom size once a day.

I'm scared to put him in the cart again, in case that triggers another attack.


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