# Lunging my 4 year old Paint Mare



## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 17, 2011)

This is a video we took of my APHA mare Ryley. She has had an issue with charging and bucking while she is lunging. I think she is just playing but either way it is a very dangerous habit!




We are working to get rid of it asap! haha enjoy the video.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDAxFAdKdy4&hd=1

UPDATE:

Here's a vid we took a couple days after the first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y0jw70o0UQ&feature=feedu

 

 

Here is a new video of Ryley. We took this a couple days after the first. 

It has some clips of her being bad... Some of her being good and some of her jumping


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## goatkisses (Jan 17, 2011)

She's a beautiful mare.

I agree with you. You want to stop this behavior immediately. Very dangerous.


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## Rebecca (Jan 17, 2011)

She is gorgeous, love the color.

Hope you don't mind a bit of advice, just something you could try- She's lunging towards you in the beginning of the video, and for me, that's a biiiig no-no. Try asking her to walk out to the circle rather than trotting, so that she won't buck, remains calmer, and won't be inclined to think it's time for a game to see if you'll back off. If she comes toward you, use your body language, stomp towards her, make yourself look big, shout a firm "NO!" Don't let her point her butt towards you. Don't back away, because that's what she wants, and you're the boss.

Once she gets going she looks great, it's just that initial asking her to move out. Great job and such a lovely mare.





Rebecca


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## rcfarm (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi

I agree with Rebecca. Do some natural horsemanship with her. You can get her to respect you. Dont back off if she comes at you, make yourself the BOSS mare!

She is a beautiful horse, my fav color.


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Jan 17, 2011)

What a beautiful horse!

I am not an expert by any stretch, but are you left handed? Can you hold the lunge whip in your right hand and the line in your left? keep the whip in your right hand lift it at least level with your elbow, not pointed down and do point it towards you mare, and she may stay AWAY, not come AT you. Good luck with her she is lovely!

Robin


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 17, 2011)

Hey!

Yes, I'm definitely open to friendly advice!



Thanks a bunch



I will give that a try next time I exercise her.

I am right handed.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 17, 2011)

Rebecca said:


> She is gorgeous, love the color.
> 
> Hope you don't mind a bit of advice, just something you could try- She's lunging towards you in the beginning of the video, and for me, that's a biiiig no-no. Try asking her to walk out to the circle rather than trotting, so that she won't buck, remains calmer, and won't be inclined to think it's time for a game to see if you'll back off. If she comes toward you, use your body language, stomp towards her, make yourself look big, shout a firm "NO!" Don't let her point her butt towards you. Don't back away, because that's what she wants, and you're the boss.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice



I will definitely give that a try. You are right. It is just when she starts lunging or reverses that there is a problem. Once she gets some of her energy out she usually settles down. But, I've never had a horse do this.


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## Bonny (Jan 17, 2011)

I agree, very pretty mare indeed.

Just curious how is she on the lead? Is she pushy or bossy at all? Before you lunge her, walk her around and command her while on the lead line. do circles and stop , go, back up. Try having her give to pressure also. That way by the time you get the lunge line on her she is already tuned into listening to you. Her posture at the start is refusal and intimidation. Her ears are pinned, nostrils flared and it doesnt seem like 'play' to me. ( my video was choppy so forgive if I am mistaken)

I had a paint mare who was very much like yours. We did lots of close lead contact and exercises and it made a huge difference.

She is young and just trying to establish herself. How is she at feed time?


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 17, 2011)

Bonny said:


> I agree, very pretty mare indeed.
> 
> Just curious how is she on the lead? Is she pushy or bossy at all? Before you lunge her, walk her around and command her while on the lead line. do circles and stop , go, back up. Try having her give to pressure also. That way by the time you get the lunge line on her she is already tuned into listening to you. Her posture at the start is refusal and intimidation. Her ears are pinned, nostrils flared and it doesnt seem like 'play' to me. ( my video was choppy so forgive if I am mistaken)
> 
> ...



Thanks! I love her.

 

She is very good on lead. This is really the only major problem I have with her. She leads great, trailers, cross ties, saddles....etc. She also gives into pressure very well. But, I have not worked her just on the lead right before lunging so I will give that a try. Thanks! 





 

No, you may be right she may not be playing...either way it's not a good habit and needs to stop! You can tell when she is going to do it because her whole body language changes and she gets this look in her eye.

 

She is good at feed time. She loves her food but she is not pushy and doesn't kick at the other horses.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 17, 2011)




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## Bonny (Jan 17, 2011)

Honestly that sounds just like my mare. She was also that age. Have you started her under saddle yet?

I will have to look through old videos and see if I can find the ones where she is doing what yours is... she didnt charge us though, just bucked and crow hopped like a wild mare.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 17, 2011)

Bonny said:


> Honestly that sounds just like my mare. She was also that age. Have you started her under saddle yet?
> 
> I will have to look through old videos and see if I can find the ones where she is doing what yours is... she didnt charge us though, just bucked and crow hopped like a wild mare.


Yes, she was broke by the previous owner as a three year old.

Thanks



But, your mare got better??


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## Bonny (Jan 17, 2011)

She did, and it didnt take long. My mare was also broke as a 3 yr old but she was still green when we got her. She had a bucking issue, when she would refuse under saddle or when she spooked. It seems it was just what she had learned to do, so we spent a lot of time working with her and she turned out good. She was very responsive to the bit and did great under saddle. Although occasionally she would give a buck to see where she stood. She was a bit high strung so I eventually sold her and last I knew she was going to be trained on barrels, she was a really fast mare.

I dont have the videos of her on this computer but here is a picture.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 17, 2011)

Bonny said:


> She did, and it didnt take long. My mare was also broke as a 3 yr old but she was still green when we got her. She had a bucking issue, when she would refuse under saddle or when she spooked. It seems it was just what she had learned to do, so we spent a lot of time working with her and she turned out good. She was very responsive to the bit and did great under saddle. Although occasionally she would give a buck to see where she stood. She was a bit high strung so I eventually sold her and last I knew she was going to be trained on barrels, she was a really fast mare.
> 
> I dont have the videos of her on this computer but here is a picture.


Awesome





Thanks for the info! Your mare is super cute.


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## Taylor Richelle (Jan 18, 2011)

*Gorgeous mare you have there!!!! *


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## rimmerpaints (Jan 18, 2011)

Try a smaller round pen to work her in until you fix the problem. It looks like to me she is trying to be in control and how your lunging she looks like she is but that is JMO. Bad habits are very easy to pick up and so hard to break. My mare when i bought her all they did was take her to a show and run her so everytime i put my foot in the sturps she tried to take off. It took LOTs of ground work and work in a smaller pen just to be able to trail ride her. I want her to run at the time asked for her to not everytime so it was a horrble habit to break and took lots of time. Matter of fact we still work on that daily. She also was very disrespectful cuz her last owner let her do that to them and now she never turns her butt to me in stall or anything like that she treats me with respect. Like i said it took awhile and lots of work but now she is the sweetest girl and very respectful. Also remember your mare is 4 so she is young and habits are picked up fast so always keep that in mind but stop it asap. I agree lots of horsemanship,ground work and smaller pen would be a great place to start and in no time she will be right where you want her to be.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 18, 2011)

rimmerpaints said:


> Try a smaller round pen to work her in until you fix the problem. It looks like to me she is trying to be in control and how your lunging she looks like she is but that is JMO. Bad habits are very easy to pick up and so hard to break. My mare when i bought her all they did was take her to a show and run her so everytime i put my foot in the sturps she tried to take off. It took LOTs of ground work and work in a smaller pen just to be able to trail ride her. I want her to run at the time asked for her to not everytime so it was a horrble habit to break and took lots of time. Matter of fact we still work on that daily. She also was very disrespectful cuz her last owner let her do that to them and now she never turns her butt to me in stall or anything like that she treats me with respect. Like i said it took awhile and lots of work but now she is the sweetest girl and very respectful. Also remember your mare is 4 so she is young and habits are picked up fast so always keep that in mind but stop it asap. I agree lots of horsemanship,ground work and smaller pen would be a great place to start and in no time she will be right where you want her to be.


Unfortunately, I do not have a small pen or round pen, just a big arena. She actually did a lot better yesterday. I did some ground work with her before. She still needs a lot of work but she is showing some improvement. She is respectful of everything else.....it's just this one issue. She has good ground manners and is good under saddle. Thanks a bunch for the info and suggestions


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## drivin*me*buggy (Jan 19, 2011)

She is a beautiful mare.

Just a few thoughts. Have you ever thought about using a lunge cavesson on her? It would offer you some more control. Don't get a flimsy nylon one though. Something sort of like this:

http://www.beval.com/Products/Leather-Lunge-Caveson/2002009.aspx Just an idea.

I would definitely get after her for that charging and bucking behavior. She isn't playing, and even if she were, she's too big to have that be funny.

I would have her do transitions while on the lunge, not just canter around. She gets to the point where she is tuning you out and just going round and round. I would do a lot of work at walk,trot, and whoa with changes of directions. Let her canter when it is your idea, not hers. Keep her mind busy.

She is a lovely mare and it is obvious that you love her





Angie


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## lucky seven (Jan 19, 2011)

Kelsey - Vandy said:


>


Very nice looking mare! Great name also. My mini does the same thing sometimes. One time he is great, next day he acts like your mare. It could be she is also just a little bit lazy and trying to push to get her way, when that doesn't happen, she listens. Good luck.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 20, 2011)

drivin*me*buggy said:


> She is a beautiful mare.
> 
> Just a few thoughts. Have you ever thought about using a lunge cavesson on her? It would offer you some more control. Don't get a flimsy nylon one though. Something sort of like this:
> 
> ...


Hi Angie,

Thank you for your advice. I work with her a lot on transitions yesterday and she was doing a lot better. That is a great idea and I will work on them a lot more. The cavesson might be a good idea but it is a little pricey! I'm a poor college student...hahahaha

THANKS!


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 20, 2011)

lucky seven said:


> Very nice looking mare! Great name also. My mini does the same thing sometimes. One time he is great, next day he acts like your mare. It could be she is also just a little bit lazy and trying to push to get her way, when that doesn't happen, she listens. Good luck.


Thanks! I love her... even though she can be a trouble maker! Yeah...She is a little lazy. Thanks a bunch


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## drivin*me*buggy (Jan 20, 2011)

I am glad you are having success with adding the transitions. I know it helped with my young Fjord and also when I lunge my minis. Work on the lunge can be very beneficial. You can teach them to stretch and start to use themselves better, build condition, as well as give them a mental workout by keeping it fresh with transitions and also work on obedience. You could also add cavaletti to change it up.

If you can't afford a cavesson right now, maybe a rope halter? Though there are real benefits to using a cavesson. Last year I had a leather cavesson designed and made for minis thru Janie at Chimacum that I love and use all the time. For a biggie, maybe check ebay?

Good luck with her!

Angie


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 21, 2011)

drivin*me*buggy said:


> I am glad you are having success with adding the transitions. I know it helped with my young Fjord and also when I lunge my minis. Work on the lunge can be very beneficial. You can teach them to stretch and start to use themselves better, build condition, as well as give them a mental workout by keeping it fresh with transitions and also work on obedience. You could also add cavaletti to change it up.
> 
> If you can't afford a cavesson right now, maybe a rope halter? Though there are real benefits to using a cavesson. Last year I had a leather cavesson designed and made for minis thru Janie at Chimacum that I love and use all the time. For a biggie, maybe check ebay?
> 
> ...



What is cavaletti??

Thanks a bunch. I will check into that!


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## GypsyMoonMinis (Jan 22, 2011)

Cavaletti are the same as ground poles in the western world. You can get small blocks for them, but just using them flat on the ground works too. They are AWESOME and should be used in all phases of your training and conditioning, regardless if you pleasure ride, english or western. The poles are laid out stride width apart for yoru horse, farther or closer depending on what gate you are using, then just go over them. YOu can make up fun and interesting patterns etc. Use it on the lunge, in hand and when riding. They build confidence, balance, and strength for your horse as well as give them something to pay attention too. I use them with minis when I am able too, also.

There are alot of great suggestions in this thread and its great to hear your making progress. You might also look into Clinton Anderson's Gaining Respect on the Ground series. Excellent stuff and teaches your horse to respect you (there are no games to play or levels to get too, he is cut and dry and tells it like it is, and reminds us that they are horses and we are humans! We have to treat them like a horse, not like another human.) With an aggressive behavior like hers, you need to be the Boss mare as someone already mentioned. Boss mares lead passively and are respected, they don't get bossy-in-your-face unless asked for it, but when they do, the herd scatters and order is set to right immediately. This mare is a show boat, she's aggressive but she's not a leader. She just wants to push your buttons and knows she has your number. I think the key is to getting her so busy doing things that she won't have the time or energy to boss you. And the SECOND you see that change come, you work her even harder. (constant change of direction is even better than transition changes, because you have alot more control of the DIRECTION rather than her speed). And if she really starts to throw a tantrum, and she will as she gets tired, then you push her again. After awhile her lungs are gonna say "hey, you know I think I need to try a new tactic to get out of work" and so then your *mare* is making the decision to do something differant to get what she wants. At this point, the "second" she shows you a positive response, you immediately back off and let her rest. Reserve psychology in a way. And all the while she will think she's the one making the decisions. She is, but your the one making each decision easy or hard for her to make.

I would also consider using a shorter whip or training stick instead of the lunge whip, as least until you have better control over her. At this point she can run you over and you aren't going to be able to do anything with the long whip. Anyhoo, just my 2 cents. She is a really gorgeous mare and with that kind of a personality, she's going to be a natural winner I think, with alot of try. Its just a matter of channeling the energy into a positive direction.

Oh, also, instead of buying the dvds, you can join GiddyUp Flix for real cheap and rent them. They have EVERYTHING you can think of for horsemanship. There is also a really awesome book you can get from Amazon called 101 Lunging Exercises. Lunging can get really boring and repetitious really fast to horses, esp a quick thinker like your mare. Pretty soon they become round pen zombies or develop bad habits, so its vital not to over do it, to do something different with it to challenge them. I lunge all my horses, big and small. I think we just need to keep reminding ourselves why we are doing it. We shouldn't do it to "burn off steam" though, because the more you do it, the more conditioned your horse gets, and the longer it will take to "burn the steam'. So really lunging should be used to "gain respect" as Anderson says, which basically means to wake up their brains, make them start thinking rather than reacting.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 22, 2011)

Wow, thank you so much for all the information. I really appreciate it!!





I will definitely give that a try and change it up a bit for her. We were working her over poles yesterday and she loved it! She is super smart. Which sometimes is a problem hahaha but I'd much rather have a fiery, smart horse then a dead head any day.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 22, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y0jw70o0UQ&feature=feedu

Here is a new video of Ryley. We took this a couple days after the first.

It has some clips of her being bad... Some of her being good and some of her free jumping


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## jleonard (Jan 22, 2011)

Gorgeous mare, my favorite color! It looks like you two really have a lot of fun together. Loved the video too!

Most of the things I would have said about the lunging have already been pointed out, my only suggestion is don't be afraid to use your whip, it is a great tool at your disposal. When you are sending her out on the circle, point the whip at her shoulder, if she tries to turn in, give her a gentle flick with the whip on her shoulder. This will help you to get her out on the circle and will discourage her trying to come in on you. Also, I think someone else mentioned the triangle that should be formed while lunging. You should be the apex with her the base, and the sides made by the line and your whip. Keep the whip up and pointed at her hip when you are not using it. I also like to hold the line like an English rein, with the tail end coming out the top of my hand. This allows you to have a better connection with her and keep steady contact and give subtle cues, just like riding. I also always hold the excess line in my whip hand so that it doesn't get caught around my feet and so that I can quickly shorten or lengthen it when necessary. I have also found that since I started training my horses to stop straight on the circle when I ask them to whoa rather than turning in, they have become much more respectful of my space. I walk out to them to change direction, rather than having them walk into me (I don't know what you do, just an observation with my own horses). Sorry if I went overboard, I love lunging! It is clear that she is doing much better since your first video, great job


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## mydaddysjag (Jan 23, 2011)

Some might not like my answer, but my old 4yr old QH mare used to do the same thing. I do not condone beating and abusing horses, however, dangerous behavior must be disciplined.

Keep the apex with yourself, the line, and the whip. You need to be able to push her forward with the whip. It should look like a piece of pie, with you being the tip. Imagine a V with the horses head on the left, you as the point, and the whip pointing to their butt on the right. When she comes in on you, GET AFTER HER with that whip. yell at her like your going to kill her, and if she doesn't stop in her tracks of trying to run you over don't be afraid to use your whip. What she is doing is dangerous, and if she doesnt stop it, your going to end up hurt. In a herd environment horses challenge each other until one backs down to get their spot in the herd. Ir seems like your mare thinks shes boss mare over you. In a herd you often see them kicking up their heels and squeeling at each other, so embrace your inner boss mare, give her loud stern voice corrections, and use that whip. Its intimidating to stand up to a 1000lb horse, but its the only thing that stopped the behavior for us.


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## Kelsey - Vandy's Farm (Jan 27, 2011)

Thank you both for your replies! They are very helpful. I will definitely give some of those things a try and see how they work out. Sorry, it took so long. I have midterms right now and it's crazy


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## Knottymare (Jan 27, 2011)

Wow, that is one pretty filly. I love her. She is definitely testing you to see if you are a good leader or not - and that's neither bad or good-it's just HORSE. Survival dictates that someone be a strong enough leader. Those ears and how she tries to drive you away by shaking her head at you are dead give-aways. Much better in the second video but she's still testing you. If she is stalled during the day, letting her do what you did by blowing off steam in the arena before working with her is a good idea. Horses need time to just be horses. The person who told you not to move was dead on correct... in horse language, he (or she) who moves their feet first loses LOL.



Hard to do when you have a horse coming at you, right? I know!

I'm the worst one to talk about being a good leader. As I have gotten older, I have found that I am not nimble enough to be that leader... which is why I'm down to my older mare and am now getting minis! You are young and pretty and from the looks of it, are doing a great job with your mare. Keep up the good work. She's stunning!


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## tagalong (Jan 28, 2011)

Cute mare - but completely disrespectful. She needs lots of variation on the lunge line and I would tend NOT to canter until you have that bad hehaviour under control.





Please please PLEASE do not let that lunge line lay on the ground at your feet! You are often stepping over it or on it and it is simply a wreck waiting to happen. The excess line should be folded back and forth across your hand - NEVER looped or coiled. We were always taught that the excess was to be held in your whip hand, leaving your other hand with more control on the lunge line. Others do not do it that way - which is fine as long as you do not have that line coiled around your hand in any way. When she dives in towards you, point that whip at her shoulder and crack it at her if necessary - yell! Flinging your hand up and away from her only invites her in towards you... and creates dangerous slack...

But YOU should pick the gaits, not her. Practice lots of halt transitions as well as slow walk, forward walk, slow trot, working trot.


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## kaykay (Jan 30, 2011)

> Keep the apex with yourself, the line, and the whip. You need to be able to push her forward with the whip. It should look like a piece of pie, with you being the tip. Imagine a V with the horses head on the left, you as the point, and the whip pointing to their butt on the right. When she comes in on you, GET AFTER HER with that whip. yell at her like your going to kill her, and if she doesn't stop in her tracks of trying to run you over don't be afraid to use your whip. What she is doing is dangerous,


that and the pic posted above. Many people do not realize how important body position and whip position are to properly lunge a horse.

Horses learn bad things just as fast as good things and I hate to say it, but after viewing the video you pretty much taught her to do that, especially once you let her get away with it.

Good luck!


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## Miniature217 (Jan 30, 2011)

Pretty


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