# Trainer's Challenge - I need feedback from trainers



## muffntuf (Dec 1, 2007)

I am looking for feedback from trainers in AMHR / APSC / ASPR / NSPR for a proposed payout class. Here's the premise:

Applications of weanlings, yearlings and two year olds that have never been shown will be taken, examined and approved by a panel for suitability for success. These horses will have not been trained by a professional trainer and we will decide which horse(s) / ponies will be available to the trainers. They will have two days with that horse / pony.

Trainers will train for halter only. All horses and ponies will be presented in the same class and judged according to the AMHR / ASPC rules for their breed and division.

Trainers will be not only responsible for training for that halter class, but for putting the finishing touches on their charges for exhibition and then exhibiting their horse / pony.

This will take place during a sanctioned show, show the trainer really has an opportunity here to not only show their client horses, but try for something extra. Give other non-professionals a chance to see trainers working at their best.

Then they will show that horse / pony in a non-rated class for prize money, we are looking at $2000.00.

Let me know what you think - I can take this feedback to companies looking to sponsor this class.

Thanks!


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## CLC Stables (Dec 1, 2007)

I personally do not care for the idea of this class.

A good trainer will want far more than 2 days with a horse. And training cannot happen in two days, PERIOD.

It is a process of getting to know the horse, FITTING the horse and teaching it.

What I think we will find is people "claiming" they are trainers vying for the prize, rather than really caring about the horse. I am stuck on this but training cannot happen in 2 days, and if happening at a show, when will a trainer have time to work with a new horse when they bring a barn full.


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## Belinda (Dec 1, 2007)

Umm not sure I am understanding what you are wanting to do.. Also it would be nice if we knew who we were talking to !! Like your name ?? I went to your profile and it has no information.. Just curious..


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## Leeana (Dec 1, 2007)

As fun as the idea sounds, its just not feasable. Trainers are in and out of the show ring class after class after class during shows. Many of the top trainers are in almost every class at every show with client horses. I see no way a trainer could find time in the two days at the sactioned show to fit and completely halter train a horse they do not know. It sounds allot like a 'catch handle', but very very different at the same time.

A professional trainer has many clients to satisfy at a show, i just do not think they could find time in their busy schedule at a show to completely halter train, groom, clip ext a horse they do not know.

I just cant see it possibly being able to work .....

edited for spelling


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## Lewella (Dec 1, 2007)

I agree with Rob and Leanna.

Plus if I had a pony with a trainer I think I would be a bit irritated if they were spending time at the show doing something like this instead of doing the job I've paid them to do.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Dec 1, 2007)

I am understanding it perhaps incorrectly that the basic idea of this class is to see if who is at the end of the lead really matters?

Since no trainer can do much with a horse in 2 days what if the horse came from across the country and the show was not long enough for the horse to be with trainer for 2 days.

Who would the panel be and what would make them able to decide if the horse was suitable for the program or not?

Truth be told about finishing touches most trainers have grooms who are a HUGE part of there showing success- who do the finishing touches (the kind that could be done 24 hours before a show) while the trainer is showing/working other clients horses not to mention in many situations babysitting clients ( YEs I am talking about me I am a big old nervous weenie and the one time I had a trainer who had my horse to fit him I am sure I drove her nuts but she is a wonderful trainer and a great friend and put up with me of course I gave her enough to laugh about for the next 20 years )





So I cant see a trainer wanting to spend time sanding hooves, clipping ect and taking away from actual showing of other clients horses that wouldnt be cost effective or good client relations.

I guess the thing that I would like to understand is what is the purpose for this class? I know in hunters at the big medal finals you have to switch horses with other riders and do a course and that is very difficult to hop on a new horse in a high pressure situation but this doesnt even sound like that?


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## SirenFarms (Dec 1, 2007)

I agree with Rob and Leeana. there is NO way i could train a horse in 2 days at a scationed show. I have too many horses that are clients horses and then my own show horses to get ready for classes and to show. its a neat idea i just dont think it would work really well.


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## muffntuf (Dec 1, 2007)

Thank you for that feedback everyone.

Let me expand on the premise, it might help abit.

Trainers would be allowed to come in two days before the show started. So they would be allowed two days of time without showing client horses.

The panel would be made up of experienced exhibitors, whom have either placed in the top ten or have taken horses to a National Championship or HOF and two AMHR / ASPC judges.

The weanlings, yearlings and two year olds would have to apply and go through this panel's assessment to see if they meet the requirements and standards set forth in the rule book. They would have to be handled, but not trained for or have ever been shown. The horses / ponies would be at the show arena the same day the trainers would be allowed to come in.

The trainers would choose from a hat or bucket the horse / pony they would be assigned.

Let me know if you have more questions.

Thanks!


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## Lmequine (Dec 2, 2007)

Again the idea sounds interesting (especially the prize money) but even with coming into a show two days in advance that would still leave a trainer like me with stabling 10 to 12 head of client ponies and keeping them ready to show. I travel alone so always have a lot of work to do at a show.

I think that I have an idea of what you are wanting to do, I have seen something similar with big horse shows with the western pleasure class tried. It was only done at the one show that I was at and that was it. A catch handle type class might would work....take a group of trained halter ponies, draw numbers and let the trainers have 10 to 15 minutes with their draw and then go into the ring and show. Again though, a lot of us are so busy at a show even with a class like that it would be hard to find time to go into the ring.

Out of curiousity, what sanctioned show are you considering for the class?


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## muffntuf (Dec 2, 2007)

Thanks again for your replys - hopefully as the next week draws out I wil hear from more trainers.

This challenge is only put out for feedback at this time. I have seen this type of challenge several times in other breeds and -- it is that a challenge. Do you have a fully trained - push button horse that you are used to at the end of the challenge -no. But it is a challenge for trainers to see what they can do in a limited time span.

The prize money is certainly the highlight, when approached about such an idea I said I would throw it out and see what I get back.

A couple comments more to ponder:

As for the comment about, I have been thinking about this all night - 'What I think we will find is people "claiming" they are trainers vying for the prize, rather than really caring about the horse. '

This is a pretty small community for trainers - most trainers are readily identifiable - the challenge is only open to trainers, if a person claimed they were a trainer and they were in amateur classes or novice classes for the sanctioned show, that would automatically raise a red flag and that person would be spoken to and have the choice of being pulled from the competiton or they would have to change all of their show classes to only open. That is a pretty big deterrant for someone trying to pose as a trainer.

Thanks again!


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## Sharron (Dec 2, 2007)

You talk about coming in two days early to a show...WHO is going to bear the cost of those two extra days? Are you going to furnish the stalls for the trainers horses, as well as the extra motel and meals? You are forgetting that the trainers add these costs to their clients for these shows...I dont know of many clients that would relish the idea of "footing the bill" for their trainer to handle a horse that is untrained and get it ready to show in two days, taking time away from their horses...Not something I would want a trainer to do if I weas a client!!!

Sharron


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## Leeana (Dec 2, 2007)

Even if it was moved to two days before the show starts i just couldnt see it working. I do some of my most important preporations on my horses in those two days pre-show. Bathing, maybe going back and clipping inside of ears, over eyes and detail clipping also bathing, braiding ext.

Like i said, the thought is nice but i know it wont work on the larger scale. No true professional is going to put his/her clients horses aside.


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## Boinky (Dec 2, 2007)

Honestly i see it the way everyone else does.. trainers probably are not going to have the time... I don't think your plan as it's made right now is very feasible.

why not make it a class for ammys or even an open class for anyone who chooses to do it? why only trainers? there are some very good handlers out there (and some that are not) that could compete for the same money... why not encourage up and coming trainers and handlers? put that money out there to encourage new attendance ect. I think the "smaller" people probably would have more time in doing this and it would sweeten the pot for people to get it done with a large $$ prize. i personally think it would be more interesting to see the "smaller" people compete in this and see who can do the best job IF this class was going to exist.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Dec 2, 2007)

I guess I still cant get past the "panel" I have shown horses to top tens that doesnt make me as qualified as someone else but yet more qualified then others so ??? what do you do with that

I think maybe tweaking it a bit. Maybe having handlers be it ammys or trainers have to switch horses randomly as soon as they walk in the gate at the ring stewards direction and then with no time or knowledge of the horse show it to a win for prize money- maybe maket it a jackpot class with sponses doubling the money or something this way you are asking for 15 min of a trainers time

that way trainers are not taking days and time away from there show string. 2000 bucks isnt much of a incentive (although it would be to me a ammy) to a trainer who has 15 + horses to get ready pack for, haul to a show, even just bringing more feed for 2 days is time consuming as well as clients having to pay for those extra 2 days if the trainer footed the bill there goes the prize money they just won.


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## hhpminis (Dec 2, 2007)

OK, I have come back to this a couple times and not commented. I am glad to read some of the comments as I feel the same.

First of all,

"These horses will have not been trained by a professional trainer and we will decide which horse(s) / ponies will be available to the trainers."

This is a very broad statement. Anyone who wants their horse to win is going to put some training and conditioning into a horse for this purpose. There are ammys out there that are as good as trainers, they just choose to not make it their occupation.

Basically this would be a catch lead type situation.

Now if the horse had not been trained, conditioned, etc., 2 days is not near enough time to throw a horse into show shape. It also could be very traumatic on a horse especially a young one. Believe it or not, there is a lot of blood, sweat, and tears that go into those horses that are presented at shows. Not to mention hours of patient handling and training.

As a trainer, I want the horse on the end of my lead to reflect that, it doesn't do me, the horse, or the owner a bit of good to take a horse that is less than ready into the ring. It reflects bad on all parties involved.

Second,

"Applications of weanlings, yearlings and two year olds that have never been shown will be taken, examined and approved by a panel for suitability for success."

?????????????? Who is the panel and what is suitability for success? Is it conformation? Is it mental ability? Is it movement? Is it color? Way way way to open.

Third,

"All horses and ponies will be presented in the same class and judged according to the AMHR / ASPC rules for their breed and division."

Throwing weanlings, yearlings, and two year olds into the same class is not according to AMHR/ASPC rules.

Fourth.

If I had a client that had been paying me for 4 months to ready their horse for its first show and I took on a new horse, and had it ready in 2 days, I think it would make my client raise an eyebrow. I also would think they would be a bit ticked off that I took that time away from their horse to spend on this horse.

I also see it leading to a disaster in that you are pushing a horse faster than they should go. You would have to clip, sand, and completely ready a horse that possibly had little or no handling beforehand. Someone, human or equine is going to get hurt.

I am against this idea totally, for love of the horse as well as the reasons stated above. When did we become cowboys? Rope em, throw em, brand em, let em go.


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## SirenFarms (Dec 2, 2007)

I 100% agree with Annette. Its just not a possible idea. Just my 2 cents.


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## Belinda (Dec 2, 2007)

First let me say You have yet to tell US who you are ?? And what area you are thinking about doing this..

Second I have to agree with Annette !! You go Girl !!








I would think as Annette said it is basically a catch Lead, so why take two days ?? Heck just have a class , People enter their horses and the trainers draw their back numbers and that is who they lead in .. Heck who needs two days ?? As said before you sure are not going to do any conditioning in two days , so just enter up and as we say Cowboy up



And show what you can do with No Preparation OH!


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## hhpminis (Dec 2, 2007)

HAHA Belinda, lets make it all weanlings while we are at it!

Somehow I always get talked into catch leading a weanie at a local show and everytime I walk out, sweaty and dirty and say, what was I thinking!


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## kaykay (Dec 2, 2007)

i have to agree with belinda and annette

when i have seen these trainer challenges done its all done in one day. They get an untrained horse and an hour later they return to show how far they got. When i first started showing a handler friend took my filly for 15 mins and when they returned she stood LOL.

i also agree to make it a real challenge give them weanlings. this was my first year showing one and at her first show I wasnt sure we would make it to the arena LOL


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## alongman (Dec 2, 2007)

I think I understand the idea, but 1) I don't spend 2 days without my client horses at a show (I don't come to a show early as the last two days before a show are important for grooming my client horses, 2) there is a lot to training a horse - even a few days isn't enough to justify the action, 3) I think that this would be setting people up for failure.

Thanks for suggesting it, I just don't know that I can support this.


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## txminipinto (Dec 3, 2007)

I agree with the others. It's just not possible. It's takes MONTHS to train and condition a halter horse, especially a weanling that's never been shown before.

Now, I kind of like the idea of throwing back numbers into a hat and having a FUN class like that! It could prove that it really is the horse on the end of the lead rather than the trainer!!


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## muffntuf (Dec 4, 2007)

I just want to Thank everyone for their .02 cents.

I think the point of the class got left somewhere - it is a challenge.

It doesn't mean the horse is in top form, complete show shape as we know the trainers and other exhibitors have time to do. It is a class to see if you can work your magic and present a horse to the best of your and time's ability.

There is no expectation set for a Congress or Nationals winner.

Some hopes for the out come of this class:

Exposure for trainers to other exhibitors that aren' t their clients.

A chance for exhibitors to get a smidge of time with trainers, garner some wisdom and experience from them.

Hopefully show that horse the rest of the summer.

And to just have some down right good fun.

It was good to hear from the few who posted. Thanks!


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## skanzler (Dec 5, 2007)

I have to agree with the others on this thread. Annette has very valid points. All of which I totally agree with.

I love the idea of throwing the numbers in a bucket and let each handler take in a catch lead horse..... How much fun....might have to think of that one for one of our local shows. What do you think Annette and Lori G, you two up for one of those?????


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## Heart L Ranch (Dec 5, 2007)

skanzler said:


> I have to agree with the others on this thread. Annette has very valid points. All of which I totally agree with.
> 
> I love the idea of throwing the numbers in a bucket and let each handler take in a catch lead horse..... How much fun....might have to think of that one for one of our local shows. What do you think Annette and Lori G, you two up for one of those?????


Oh yeah.... I think that would be a FUN class......


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## hhpminis (Dec 5, 2007)

teehee, I'm game! I think the award should be a first aid kit! HAHAHAHA


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## skanzler (Dec 5, 2007)

OK you two, you better be prepared for the CWMHC show. I am going to add that one just for the two of you.....LOL. And yes Annette the kit will have everything a trainer needs including Daquari mix to soothe the aches and pains....


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## mininik (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm delighted to hear it'll only be a CLASS at the CWMHC show and not an additional day, or two. If that weren't the case I'm afraid you trainers would need an ER ready (not just a First Aid kit) after telling your grooms what was going on...


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## hhpminis (Dec 5, 2007)

No Nikki, what kind of an attitude is that to have!





We'll share our prize with you!


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## mininik (Dec 5, 2007)

Okay.





I do think one of the "horses" to be drawn for in the class should be a Miniature Mule, though...


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## hhpminis (Dec 5, 2007)

Ooh, now you are getting downright mean. LOL

That prize would have to include the rum to go with the daquiri mix though, and a certificate for a 1/2 hour massage.


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