# Puppy getting second shots.



## Reble (Jan 4, 2011)

Went to the vet with the puppy today, so new owner could pick her up also today.

Wanted to make sure the puppy had all her shots.

She had her first shots, December 6th, 2010.

This would have been her booster shots plus rabies.

Well, being she was 11 weeks and 6 days one day short of being 12 weeks, they would not give her the rabies shot, and now they say she needs a booster shot when she gets her rabies shot in 3 weeks, being she was one day short with her booster.. does not make sense to me.

What do you think.. if she was 12 weeks would have been OK for rabies and no more booster shots. Money, Money, Money..

I am just going to tell the new owner to give rabies shots when she is 6 months.

I am starting to wonder if these shots are really any good, if one day makes this much difference.

Please let me know what you think? confused..


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## Jill (Jan 4, 2011)

I don't know for sure what's best, but I know the rabies shot is harder on them than most (if not all) of the other shots. Our small dogs were a bit older before they got that one because it can be so rough on them and make them feel bad for a day or so... When Watson got his first rabies, he just layed around and moaned for about 12 hours and it was like a fist around my heart.


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## Reble (Jan 4, 2011)

Jill said:


> I don't know for sure what's best, but I know the rabies shot is harder on them than most (if not all) of the other shots. Our small dogs were a bit older before they got that one because it can be so rough on them and make them feel bad for a day or so... When Watson got his first rabies, he just layed around and moaned for about 12 hours and it was like a fist around my heart.


Thanks Jill, just the way they said one day short, did not make sense, I could have brought her back in tomorrow and would have been fine for the rabies, but I said no will let the new owner do it..

Than I realize once I got home, she was born at 2:00 a.m. wonder if that would of made more of a difference so silly to me.. Oh well, I will let them worry about it now.

Just so many people do not get their shots and thought this would be good to make sure she had them all.

Just talked with the new owner, and they said no problem will get her shots and rabies in 3 weeks. I believe they will, and that is all I was worried about..


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## Jill (Jan 4, 2011)

I see your point and I mis-read what you typed -- I had read it as she's 6 days short, but now I see what you were saying. I cannot remember for sure, but I think Watson was 13 or 14 weeks old. Wilson was a little older and already had had it when we got him. I think with small breeds, it's even more important to make sure they are old enough (maybe some vets ideally want them older than 12wks? I'm just not sure.)


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## Reble (Jan 4, 2011)

Jill said:


> I see your point and I mis-read what you typed -- I had read it as she's 6 days short, but now I see what you were saying. I cannot remember for sure, but I think Watson was 13 or 14 weeks old. Wilson was a little older and already had had it when we got him. I think with small breeds, it's even more important to make sure they are old enough (maybe some vets ideally want them older than 12wks? I'm just not sure.)


Yes, she is tiny she weighed in at the vets at only 2.43lbs.

You are probably correct Jill.

Here is a picture of her taken last night on my bed, with my horse blanket.


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## Jill (Jan 4, 2011)

OMG!!! She is the cutest thing I ever saw!!!!!!!!! OH man, I would kidnap her if I was close enough



:wub



That face is sooooooooooo cute!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ohmt (Jan 4, 2011)

Not sure if I'm reading it right-tell me if this is correct: the vet wouldn't give your (amazingly cute) little puppy her rabies shot because she was 1 day shy of 12 weeks, but gave her her boosters? Now they say in 3 weeks when she gets her rabies shot they want her to get the booster again?

I just took a graduate level immunology course so I understand the basics behind shots and boosters. I understand them wanting to make sure she's old enough, especially since she's such a tiny little thing. The shots are to elicit a memory response which means they have to get the body to start up an adaptive immune response which is stronger and more effective than the initial innate immune response. That's why the body often feels a little malaise and might get a low grade fever after shots. Now if I understood right, that they wanted her to get her boosters again while she gets her rabies?? Well, that just doesn't make sense at all. It's actually best if shots can be given at different times so there aren't so many side affects. An extra set of boosters (to elicit the memory response) is completely unnecessary. It won't hurt her, but is not going to benefit her either.


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## Reble (Jan 4, 2011)

yes, you are correct.. thanks for the info and helps me understand it a bit more..


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## uwharrie (Jan 4, 2011)

I think we have a tendency to way over vaccinate these days.

I have a small breed dog the schedule I follow is this

8 weeks 5Way vaccination 1/2 dose

12 weeks 5 way (full dose)

16 weeks 5 way full dose

I wait and give Rabies after 6 months (yes I know the law says 4 months)

They get one 5 way booster one year after the last booster and NO MORE ever!

I do give rabies every 3 yrs since it is the law.


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## Mona (Jan 4, 2011)

We've always given the puppy shots 3 times. (the initial and 2 boosters) Then the rabies is done at a little older age. I know they can be done as early as 12 weeks, as I think that is what customs requires if bringing them across the border, however, my vet prefers to wait until between 4 and 6 months of age for the Rabies.

I think it is rediculous that your vet would not vaccinate due to that one day!! If your puppy is considered to be fully vaccinated (if she were to have gotten both the booster and rabies today) then I don;t understand why the extra booster is required at the same time the rabies is to be given, but, if this is the 3rd set of puppy shots, then I do understand that.

Personally, I think a large part of all these vaccinations is nothing more than a money grab. I do totally support vaccinations, but I also think they are "used" to some extent, to ensure there is that steady supply of $$$ coming into the animal clinics each year by that client. I know here, I usually have 2 or 3 dogs. I have decided I will no longer be vaccinating annually, but will be doing it every other year instead. My vet wanted to do one dog one year, one the next. I said no, I want them on the same schedule, as we are so far from the vet (80 miles) that it is more convenient. That would take away that extra office visit to have only one call every 2 years. So then they said they would alternate the shots, doing rabies one year, and the other boosters the next. Again, I felt they were looking for that extra office visit, and I told them no, we'll do all the dogs, same year, and both rabies abd other boosters at the same time. I have alwayshad the boosters and rabies done at the same time, through all my dogs over all these years. Never had any major reactions that would not be seen in our own children...more lethargic for awhile, and tender in the injection site (mostly from the rabies).


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## Reble (Jan 4, 2011)

thanks for all the info.

I am trying to understand this.

After the first shot they need a booster to give them a good immune system.

so why the 3rd shot?

at 8 weeks she had first shot

at 11 weeks 6 days had booster shot.

I do not understand why the 3rd shot !!!!


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## ohmt (Jan 4, 2011)

All memory cells stay with you until you die no matter if you receive a booster or not, same with animals. Now the long lived B cells which are also a part of adaptive immunity last anywhere from 6 months to 10 years and it is the boosters that try to keep them in your system or your animals system. I think before bringing your animals in for vaccinations, one should research and look up how long the vaccine is deemed effective. Most vaccines definitely do not need to be given every year. Technically if the initial vaccines are given correctly, the body is always going to have an adaptive response if exposed later down the line. The boosters keep the response as quick and strong as possible because the long lived B cells are already activated while the memory cells have to go through the activation process. So the boosters are necessary, just usually not every year and sometimes not even every other year.


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## Whitestar (Jan 4, 2011)

The vet may not have had a choice on when to give Rabies, if your state requires it no earlier than 3 month then your vet can not break the law even by one day. Having worked in a vet clinic, we had to turn people away because they were one day or one week too early by the birthdate given by the owner. They should not have made the appt without looking at the date & let you know that both could not be done. My experience in working in vet clinics & seeing whst distemper & parvo can do to as puppy without vaccines or those done without following the suggested protocol, then I always encourage pet owners to listen to the vet or really do research. If you can not afford to take your pet to the vet for the vaccines, you can usually buy them at your local feed store & given them yourself. ( Some states require vets only to do Rabies). Many pet owners are told pets are vaccinated when they purchase them only to have them come down with diseases. When you purchase a pet & you can not trust the person 100% that says they vaccinate their own ( they should be able to provide the labels off the vaccine bottles ) or a receipt from a vet showing it is done them discuss it with your vet & make an informed decision about whether to have them vaccinated. Many people think their pets are fully covered by one vaccine & do not follow up when their vet suggests followups. The vet I worked for did not give both rabies & the combo shot in one visit to smaller dogs because of their size, but he also did not charge a second exam fee when they returned to do just the rabies. When I was a breeder I liked to allow the new owners to do the Rabies so the certificate would be their name. But I also strongly discouraged new puppy owners not to take the puppies out to the high risk areas such as parks & pet stores until the puppies were fully vaccinated. Even a visit to your local shelter or animal control can bring home disease on your clothes or shoes. Check with your local humane society & find out what vaccine protocol they use, they are not in it for the money but for the good of the pets they take care of & follow their lead.

This is good information:

http://www.doglogic.com/vaccinearts.htm


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## ohmt (Jan 4, 2011)

Ok so I did a little research as I wasn't sure about the third set either. You do need to have it done because each puppy is different when it comes to the time frame that their 'natural' immunity (immunity obtained from their mother via placenta and milk) wears off. Sometimes the first vaccine is given when their natural immunity hasn't worn off yet so the vaccine doesn't 'take' or set off any type of response. The third set is merely precautionary in case the first dose was ineffective. Also, the first year booster is definitely necessary, and then from there you can look into skipping a year or two.


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## Reble (Jan 4, 2011)

OK thanks ohmt.. that is good to know..

I just needed to know why.

I appreciate all the responses.


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## Whitestar (Jan 4, 2011)

If they are going to use your vet, do what he suggests. If they want already have a vet for other pets, let that vet suggest what what vaccine guideline to follow.


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## Reble (Jan 4, 2011)

Whitestar said:


> If they are going to use your vet, do what he suggests. If they want already have a vet for other pets, let that vet suggest what what vaccine guideline to follow.


No they will not be using my vet, they live 90 minutes away.

So will just tell them to talk with their vet.

What frustrates me, is that so many people do not take them in for all their shots.

Here in Ontario only by law needs rabies.

At 12 weeks or older.


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## ohmt (Jan 4, 2011)

Find out your state law on rabies and have it done the absolute latest possible. Try not to have it done the same time as the other shots. Most vets will recommend to wait and give the rabies after the third set just in case. It's pretty hard on their little bodies to have them all at once.


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## Reble (Jan 4, 2011)

ohmt said:


> Find out your state law on rabies and have it done the absolute latest possible. Try not to have it done the same time as the other shots. Most vets will recommend to wait and give the rabies after the third set just in case. It's pretty hard on their little bodies to have them all at once.


In brief, the law states that a dog 3 months of age or over must be immunized against rabies, and then reimmunized (i.e. given a booster) by the date specified in the immunization certificate that is issued at the time the vaccine is administered.

Currently, standard veterinary practice is to immunize (vaccinate) a dog against rabies for the first time at 3 months of age, then revaccinate yearly after that. Most people are under the impression that yearly revaccination against rabies is the law in Ontario, but this is not true. While most companion animal practices in Ontario are using a three year rabies vaccine, many are administering it on a yearly basis. Yearly revaccination against rabies is only required by law if a one year rabies vaccination is used which, by and large, is not the case

thanks now I know for sure.


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## Ashley (Jan 5, 2011)

The last dog I had as a pup didnt get her rabies until 6 months. If there is a law issue then that is on the ower of the dog.

I also have never heard of the 1 days shy thing. My dogs always got their shots around the time they were do. This could have been a few days early or a few days after. The vets never told me, "oh she needs a booster". That sounds like they are out for more money.


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## sdust (Jan 5, 2011)

I worked as a Vet Tech for 17 years. Parvo and distemper are terrible things to deal with. Your Vet is just looking out for your puppy. Please understand that most Vets don't do it "just for the money" they do it because they have been there, done that....


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## mydaddysjag (Jan 6, 2011)

Don't be too alarmed that everyone doesnt vaccinate their dogs on most vets schedules. My dog gets her rabies every year as required, but I dont get lepto for her ever (the one time I did get it she had a very bad reaction, and got a 1/2" growth at injection site that had to be removed) I also only get her other vaccinations every three years. This is not me being cheap, but what my vet recommends, and what I agree with. We used to have tiders done every year, and they showed that we didnt need to re vaccinate.


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## Reble (Jan 6, 2011)

thanks for all the replies, makes you want to think about what is best.

Also notice they give the 3 year shot for rabies, but says needs to have another one next year. I think I will pass on getting them every year, being the 3 year is OK here in Ontario. I think sometimes less is best.

Do you give rabies shots every year. Just wondering thanks.


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## Margo_C-T (Jan 7, 2011)

New Mexico is one of the states that does NOT allow individuals to buy and/or give their own, rabies vaccinations, so we have to take our dogs to a vet for that. For years, there was also a state law requirement that rabies be given yearly, even though I began hearing quite some years back that the rabies vaccine was a THREE-year one. Only recently has our state law been changed to allow a three-year interval, as reflected on the vaccination certificate/tag you are issued upon administration; so now, you will be asked if you want a one-year or a three-year rabies, and will be charged more if you say three-year. Does anyone know for a FACT that there even IS a one-year AND a three-year rabies vaccine? I feel that it is likely the SAME VACCINE....but 'what a deal', if it can be charged MORE for if to be for the full effective interval of three years!! Am afraid I DO think there is some 'money grubbing' involved, at least, sometimes.

Margo


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## Katiean (Jan 7, 2011)

First let me say your puppy is adorable. I for one am not a fan of too many shots. I had a Yorkie that the day she got her second set of shots she got parvo. She was given a modified live shot and I prefer the killed. No one else here got sick and she spent 3 weeks at the vet on IV's. She was 13 or 14 when she passed. She never received another shot after her parvo problem.


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## uwharrie (Jan 7, 2011)

We are required to give a rabies booster shot one year after the first one, then only every three years after that.



Reble said:


> thanks for all the replies, makes you want to think about what is best.
> 
> Also notice they give the 3 year shot for rabies, but says needs to have another one next year. I think I will pass on getting them every year, being the 3 year is OK here in Ontario. I think sometimes less is best.
> 
> Do you give rabies shots every year. Just wondering thanks.


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## uwharrie (Jan 7, 2011)

parvo has an incubation period of 5-10 days so no way your puppy got the virus from that vaccine.

And dogs do not have to leave your propery to pick up viruses. You can bring them home on your clothes and shoes. ( which is why I never bought into the "keep the pup at home till fully vaccinated" train of thought.

Oh and once the get parvo, they do not have to be vaccinated again. (As long as they survive the virus)they have lifetime immunity ( well until the virus decides to mutate)



Katiean said:


> First let me say your puppy is adorable. I for one am not a fan of too many shots. I had a Yorkie that the day she got her second set of shots she got parvo. She was given a modified live shot and I prefer the killed. No one else here got sick and she spent 3 weeks at the vet on IV's. She was 13 or 14 when she passed. She never received another shot after her parvo problem.


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## ohmt (Jan 7, 2011)

Yes, she could not have gotten it from the vaccine. It is likely she was exposed earlier and the vaccines made her immunocompromised allowing it to infect. Also, I would pick a live vaccine over killed any day as long as the person or animal getting it is not immunocompromised. With a live vaccine, only one dose is needed vs multiple with killed, immunity is longer with live, plus there is almost zero chance the live vaccine will become virulent while it is much more common with the killed. If the killing process is not precise the vaccine could either become ineffective or virulent. People seem to be afraid of live vaccines just because of its name when in fact the killed should be the concern. Also, killed requires an adjuvent while live does not. Over the years there has been a lot of concern over the types of adjuvents used and their adverse effects. Most side effects from vaccines are due to adjuvants and not the vaccine itself. Aluminum is one of the main ones used and it is a neurotoxin to the human body. Also oils are often used and studies have found that they can do quite a bit of damage too-like causing different autoimmune diseases. There is a lot of contraversy concerning adjuvants and scientists come up with new ones all the time and we do not know their long term effects. SO, if you ever have the choice, choose the live!


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## chandab (Jan 7, 2011)

uwharrie said:


> We are required to give a rabies booster shot one year after the first one, then only every three years after that.


This is what our vet does.


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