# Wow...I thought my horses were bomb proof. I found this post on Youtube and I have to say I am impr



## Laura Leopard (Feb 26, 2010)

I hope to never be as close as these horses are to the cars, but it's good to see they are not afraid.


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## jleonard (Feb 26, 2010)

I saw that last night, pretty amazing!


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## ~Amanda~ (Feb 27, 2010)

Wow, that's incredible.


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## Tiny Hooves (Feb 27, 2010)

That is some well trained horse's. When I had seen where they had the balloon I had wondered what would have happenend if it would have of popped???? Would the horse's have still stood there??? Just AMAZING!!!!! Totally impressed!!!


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## Shortpig (Feb 27, 2010)

Thank you that was great to watch. Imagine coming into contact with all those things during a drive. I have wonder if they take their horses for walks thru that kind of stuff first. I'm going to pin that one for future reference


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## sedeh (Feb 27, 2010)

Wow!! Now that's bomb proofing your horse!! What great trainers.


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## willowoodstables (Feb 27, 2010)

Wow and I thought mine were traffic safe!!! I got a lot of ideas from that clip!! I LOVE the balloon! I would love to go over and learn from them!!!


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## Reble (Feb 27, 2010)

That is the old time training and the trust those horses have with them,

is just wonderful.





Well, I have too brag, we trained our Quarter x Arab with balloons, and mirrors, men at work and took him over where trucks got weighed in, heavy machinery, etc..

Because for 3 years in a row, took Santa with horse an buggy right into a mall, they lay-ed rugs down, but children did run up to see the horse not Santa, and balloons did pop... and one huge fish tank outside the pet store and Reble just walked right on by... Boy that brings back some nice memories...Thanks for sharing, will show my husband.





If anyone knows Kitchener Ontario, it was the Stanley Park Mall. Since than has been changed.

Came in the back sliding doors went have way around the mall, dropped Santa off, turned around in the small aisle and back out the same doors.



Hubby did all the training himself. Thank you for letting me tell of one of our best memories....would have to be about 23 years ago....


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## Relic (Feb 27, 2010)

OMG that was just awsume to watch


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## Ferrah (Feb 27, 2010)

I agree that it was awesome to watch and I admire the patience and training it takes to train horses to be so tolerant, but I can't be the only one who thinks some of the situations they put those horses in were unnecessary and some of them were even downright dangerous.


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## Keri (Feb 27, 2010)

That's awesome!!!



I'm a firm believer that if I can't safely drive my horse in the road with all those distractions, then they shouldn't be in the show ring.


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## Aristocratic Minis (Feb 28, 2010)

I'd seen this before and had found it to be amazing. The time and work they take with their horses is quite extraordinary.

It gives "obstacle class" a whole new outlook, doesn't it?


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 1, 2010)

Ferrah said:


> I agree that it was awesome to watch and I admire the patience and training it takes to train horses to be so tolerant, but I can't be the only one who thinks some of the situations they put those horses in were unnecessary and some of them were even downright dangerous.


You're not the only one.



I saw that video a few months ago and had very mixed feelings. On the one hand the horses are lovely and there's a ton of good training ideas in those videos. I'm very impressed by the traffic work and agree that it's a good idea to teach your horse to step over and around stuff and push through obstacles if you ask them to. They do need to trust you and do things that seem odd to them when asked. On the other hand, stunts like having your horse push the cart from the rear like a baby stroller and load into a trailer that is too small for him with the cart attached are dangerous, unnecessary and pretty much stupid. Yes, someone who is well in-tune with their horse and has built up trust can do stuff like that. Someone who is NOT can get in a tremendous amount of trouble trying it!





Not only that but some of the sheer repetition annoyed me. Sure, your horse needs to be used to honking car horns. But ya know, if he didn't respond to the first startling honk and didn't show any signs of growing concern over the next few you really can stop beeping the bloody horn!



The same with repeatedly trotting over the sheet metal as they do in the Hackney video. It's pointless to make a horse attempt those sorts of things over and over when it's proven it has mastered the challenge. It bores them and becomes a Stupid Pony Trick instead of a learning experience. I understand they were demoing here and trying to prove a point, but honestly.

Some of the other things I raised an eyebrow over included having the horse stand with a bag over his head while someone crawls under him and asking the horse to walk over a full-sized barrel, a bunch of plastic cubes and a few tarps with a bag tied over his head. (Not to his bridle but actually OVER his entire head so he can't see.) I'm not sure that teaches trust so much as utter submission. That was not a happy Vanner in the "Breaking Horses to Drive" video and they just kept pushing him instead of letting him think about it and then asking again. More stupidity followed in the "Breaking Horses to Drive, Part 2" production. Yes, let's push a pair to run their pole up on a large blue plastic box and get it stuck. This is great for making them love their job and trust their driver to not let them get hurt!

I approve of ground-driving your horse through solid lines of cones, tires, streamers and even barrels as they do but am not so sure about driving the carriage through them. Especially with a small mini cart it's very easy to get something stuck under the frame and you could easily overturn the vehicle if you aren't careful. There are other ways to get the horse used to that sort of sensation. And what about some leg protection?? I don't usually use the stuff, especially with a hairy mini, but if I'm going to routinely trot my horse over sheet metal and throw buckets at him and such I think I might put some leg wraps on.





It's an interesting video, I'll say that for them. I'm sure I could learn a lot from lessons with the producer and I intend to refer back to it for ground-work ideas but there are definitely a lot of things I'd think very hard about adding to my hitched training program.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't think this is a "do as I do" video, as much as it is an "advertisement" for their training barn. I would agree, the average driver shouldn't try much of this, as you can tell that these are skilled Whips handling those horses. They pushed the horses a bit beyond their "comfort level" each time to encourage them to trust that the driver would not put them in a utterly painful situation, but not with harsh whip or voice. What I liked is that the horses showed signs of "reaction", such as picking up their heads, stopping, pooping, ears perked forward, etc., so you know that they are continuing not because they are oblivious to the "scary thing", but because they trust their driver. Once they make it past the "scary thing" they calm down and their driver praises them.



How many times have I seen, especially in the Western events, where a rider "punishes" his horse for even looking at something! That didn't happen in the video.....

I also think it is a good idea to "run over" stuff. Chad got us some more yellow Gayla cones for Christmas. The first time using the new ones, I tried to take a hard right turn, and Alax didn't. He plowed over the brand new cone and yes, we got it stuck under the carriage. From the feel and the hang up, he bolted forward a little until one of the floorboards broke and the cart released. The cone came out the worst for wear, with a bit of a crack on the base. That could also easily happen at a driving event. Yes, I don't think that I would use stuff as big as they used with a mini, because of the potential for upset, but it does make me think that I should "run stuff over" more. The horses need to learn not to panic when something touches their legs, the surface gets "weird", or the cart bumps around behind them.

At Villa Louis, they have a hanging streamer set that is part of the Gambler's Choice obstacles. It is lovingly known as the "Strip Tease". We now have our own strip tease in our doorway of our barn that we drive the horses through all the time, so they get used to that before Villa. Also, last year at Villa, they had a road cone knocked over that drivers were supposed to set up by driving over the edge of the cone. I'm sure some people missed and drove right over the cone. This is at the 2nd largest carriage show in the U.S.

It looks to me that the people in the video have their own "obstacle course" set up all the time, and they take all their training horses over it. The repetition was different horses being put through their paces to "prove" that it wasn't just a rare example of one of their horses that could handle those situations, but that they train all of their horses to do that. Think of what an Advanced level CDE horse is expected to do!

As far as getting them stuck in places, that would be great training for when they get stuck on a pole in a hazard or the like. They need to learn to stand still and wait to be released from their "trap". Without that type of training, how often would you see horses that would downright panic and explode, putting everyone in danger?

I think that many people are concerned that if they "bombproof" their horses this much, that the horse will lose it's "brilliance". This video proves that wrong. There were some awesome moving horses there! I especially liked the big gray. I have had lessons at a Saddlebred barn, where they would bang longe whips on the walls of the arena, and let off firecrackers and fire extinguishers to get the horses to trot higher, not to desensitize them! That, my friends, seems like illogical training!

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 3, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> I also think it is a good idea to "run over" stuff. Chad got us some more yellow Gayla cones for Christmas. The first time using the new ones, I tried to take a hard right turn, and Alax didn't. He plowed over the brand new cone and yes, we got it stuck under the carriage. From the feel and the hang up, he bolted forward a little until one of the floorboards broke and the cart released. The cone came out the worst for wear, with a bit of a crack on the base. That could also easily happen at a driving event. Yes, I don't think that I would use stuff as big as they used with a mini, because of the potential for upset, but it does make me think that I should "run stuff over" more. The horses need to learn not to panic when something touches their legs, the surface gets "weird", or the cart bumps around behind them.





RhineStone said:


> As far as getting them stuck in places, that would be great training for when they get stuck on a pole in a hazard or the like. They need to learn to stand still and wait to be released from their "trap". Without that type of training, how often would you see horses that would downright panic and explode, putting everyone in danger?


I had the same thing happen when Kody was green (poor Maureen of Happ's- I killed one of her brand-new hard-plastic regulation cones!) and I was very pleased that my four year old reacted so well. He was at a full flying trot when I ran over the cone and it got wedged under our wheel so the cart was literally skating along on the cone with no wheels at all on the ground. I hollered "Whoa" and he stopped dead, stood like a rock while I dug the darn thing out from under the cart and checked for damage, then picked up at full speed without fuss when I gave the word. It only occurred to me later how unusual it was for a stallion who'd only been in cart for a month to stand so quietly when he'd been pulled down from full flight without warning after a scary sound and sensation. I think part of it was that he'd already learned to pull the cart through water, very tall grass, over roots and rocks and divots and was quite used to the cart doing odd things behind him. He trusted his driver and was also just plain sensible enough not to worry when whatever-it-was hadn't hurt him yet. Many horses aren't that calm and need to be desensitized as you say, but I can't help but feel I'd be more comfortable working up from simple sensations like the afore-mentioned natural terrain to small things like plastic water bottles under the wheels and such without putting the horse in the kind of dangerous situation where something actually gets stuck under the cart and brings it to a halt.

I guess with this and the "stuck pole" situation both, it boils down to what you've said before. You can't prepare the horse for everything that could happen but you can teach them how to react and to look to the driver first. I am not personally comfortable actively putting my horse in a dangerous situation to teach him how to deal with it when the same skills can be taught in a safer, more controlled manner.



RhineStone said:


> It looks to me that the people in the video have their own "obstacle course" set up all the time, and they take all their training horses over it. The repetition was different horses being put through their paces to "prove" that it wasn't just a rare example of one of their horses that could handle those situations, but that they train all of their horses to do that.


The repetition I was talking about was in the video devoted to the Hackney stallion and it was the same horse going over it again and again and again and again and....





It's one thing to add new pieces to something old, like leading over a plyboard then lunging over a plyboard then ground-driving over a plyboard then putting that plyboard in the middle of the arena and doing figure eights over it, etc. It's another to simply run over it 50 million times because you can.

Meh. I think I'm getting old and cranky!





Leia


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## RhineStone (Mar 3, 2010)

I didn't see a Hackney stallion over and over, but I didn't look that close either. A different video? Maybe they don't show the parts where he "blew up" in between takes, and therefore they had to do it that many times to have him get the point? I don't know.

I still agree that the average person shouldn't do most of this, but I doubt that the drivers' purpose was to put these horses in danger. I bet there was *A LOT *of preparatory work that went into getting these horses ready to accept these "obstacles" shown, and they only show the "final results". I'm not sure I know of any carriage horse around here that would be able to handle what they have trained those horses to accept. Maybe we baby our horses too much on this side of the pond....


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 3, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> The repetition I was talking about was in *the video devoted to the Hackney stallion* and it was the same horse going over it again and again and again and again and....





RhineStone said:


> I didn't see a Hackney stallion over and over, but I didn't look that close either. A different video?


Yes, it was a different video devoted only to the bay stallion.



RhineStone said:


> I still agree that the average person shouldn't do most of this, but I doubt that the drivers' purpose was to put these horses in danger. I bet there was *A LOT *of preparatory work that went into getting these horses ready to accept these "obstacles" shown, and they only show the "final results".


I'm sure that is true. What worries me is the number of internet idiots who would try to jump straight to what's shown in the video!







RhineStone said:


> I'm not sure I know of any carriage horse around here that would be able to handle what they have trained those horses to accept. Maybe we baby our horses too much on this side of the pond....


It does make me want go out and try it as I'm fairly sure both my riding horse and my driving horse would do those things.



Even the yearling will step through just about anything...it's amazing how desensitizing playing with one of those big Horse Balls is!





Leia


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## RhineStone (Mar 3, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> RhineStone said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure I know of any carriage horse around here that would be able to handle what they have trained those horses to accept. Maybe we baby our horses too much on this side of the pond....
> ...


I guess what I was thinking was more the jackhammer and the lorry (truck) bumping the horse. Those are pretty extreme examples. I do think that a lot of our Midwest carriage horses will go over and through stuff, but that might be over the top for them. Heck, *I* would avoid a jackhammer!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 4, 2010)

We've done jackhammers.



Lots of construction in our area and I do mostly road driving/riding so we run into fire trucks, sewer workers, PUD people taking out trees or putting up power poles, bikers, police cars coming from behind with their sirens on....lots of fun. I have to admit I haven't had someone bump the horse with their car (thank God!) but it's come awfully close sometimes. I've had a mirror go by an inch from my ear.





Leia


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## Kawgirl (Mar 5, 2010)

I realize it's important to expose driving horses to a lot of situations. Twice I have met an empty sandtruck while crossing a bridge with Pepper in the cart. That is a very scary situation! Luckily he stayed calm and had no problems. But, seeing these horses being driven into a trailer while being hooked up is just stupid! I'm afraid someone who probably doesn't have any business training a horse in the first place will try this and ending up getting themselves and their horse badly hurt!


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## keely2682 (Mar 12, 2010)

> It does make me want go out and try it as I'm fairly sure both my riding horse and my driving horse would do those things. Even the yearling will step through just about anything...it's amazing how desensitizing playing with one of those big Horse Balls is!
> Leia


My riding horse and favorite driving horse have both been put through more than most people can imagine. They would certainly do those things. And my youngest driving boy is getting there.

Everyone knows my driving mare Tippy. She is most memorable for stopping immediantly when I yelled after loosing my reins and nearly toppling out of my chariot when a weld broke at a full gallop in the chariot class at nationals 2007. This year she proved herself again driving in PMC immediantly before her chariot class. She is used to driving in traffic, parades, through sirens, fountains, groups of motorcycles, past people shooting guns, over foot bridges, docks... We have been galloping and had tires blow that sounded like a gun shot and she whoaed instantly when asked, didnt even startle from the boom. I have spent 10 years driving that horse and have so much faith in her. She trusts me infinitely.

My riding horse is similar. I have owned her 24 years. She can be shot off of and ridden over or through anything (as a kid I was crazy- i rode over railroad bridges, through town, down highways, had her groundtie at restaraunts and freinds houses for hours, and even expected my horse to leap off bluffs with long drops to the water). Now in her old age she has become blind but she has faith in her rider regardless of what she cant see.

With years and trust its amazing what a horse will do for you.


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## Annabellarose (Mar 13, 2010)

I am impressed.


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## ohmt (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm not quite sure where I'm seeing the dangerous situations that some people are talking about?? The horses looked very well trained and in the few instances where the horses hesitated, I loved the way the driver handled it. There was zero punishing-just encouraging. As far as the horse being loaded into a 'too small' trailer-he wasn't loaded all the way in and the horse that they did it with is the one they seem to have put the most training into. They seem like smart people-if they thought the horse would spook, pretty sure they wouldn't have done it because the driver would probably end up more hurt than the horse.

As for novice people watching it and trying it at home-that's their problem isn't it? In the video there are multiple times where they put that the horses are TRAINED. If people watch it and can't understand the term, maybe they need to learn the hard way. God bless the poor horses who end up with stupid handlers.

I think I'm getting old and crabby too!


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## RhineStone (Mar 14, 2010)

ohmt said:


> I'm not quite sure where I'm seeing the dangerous situations that some people are talking about?? The horses looked very well trained and in the few instances where the horses hesitated, I loved the way the driver handled it. There was zero punishing-just encouraging. As far as the horse being loaded into a 'too small' trailer-he wasn't loaded all the way in and the horse that they did it with is the one they seem to have put the most training into. They seem like smart people-if they thought the horse would spook, pretty sure they wouldn't have done it because the driver would probably end up more hurt than the horse.
> As for novice people watching it and trying it at home-that's their problem isn't it? In the video there are multiple times where they put that the horses are TRAINED. If people watch it and can't understand the term, maybe they need to learn the hard way. God bless the poor horses who end up with stupid handlers.


I would agree. There are probably a whole lot of videos out there that scream, "Don't try this at home!" I sure would hope that people aren't learning to train their horses from YouTube videos any more than anyone learning how to downhill ski jump from them, but I suppose there are the stupid ones that could use an "I'm Stupid" sign from Bill Engvall (comedian). Again, I really don't think their reason for posting was to educate people on what to do, but more to advertise their training barn. I think it is a WHOLE lot better than the one Polish video of the two idiot ladies putting that horse to the wagon for the first time and practically getting themselves killed! DUH!

Myrna


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