# Grulla's



## MindyLee (Feb 1, 2012)

I see all kinds of grulla colored horses big and small out there, BUT some that are labled that, just dont strike me as that. They look black, smoky black, brown, or bay. I see no leg barring, shoulder lines not even a dorsal strip. So are they really grulla's or are these folks wrong on their coloring?

To me, if I was in the market for a grulla, I would not consider these a grulla at all, unless all the baring was very noticiable even at a distance.


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## Jill (Feb 1, 2012)

Lots of horses are called a color they really aren't. Grulla / Grullo have dun factor, just like all dun horses (though... lots of horses who are not dun are incorrectly labeled). H and I have quite a few horses with dun factor, including a grullo stallion and a grulla mare -- both though are also grey so visually, they are "white" or heading in that direction




We have buckskin, double dilute, red, and bay dun horses... I kind of love any horse better with a stripe down the back, either due to dun or intense counter shading


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## Lori W (Feb 1, 2012)

My favorite book, "Miniature Horses Their Care, Breeding and Coat Color" by Barbara Naviaux, states that "Grullos are a type of dun having black or diluted black points. Grullo horses must have the primitive wild-type markings found within the dun series of colors. These include the dorsal stripe (line-back), withers stripe and zebra leg markings. Some of the lightest shades of grullo have blue eyes or other shades of dilute eye color."

We have a grullo stallion (in my avatar) and his grulla filly (at three months old in this picture). At seven months now, despite her wooly winter coat, her black points and primitive markings are becoming more distinct.


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## ohmt (Feb 1, 2012)

I think most of the time when I see a horse labeled incorrectly as a grulla/o, it is a black foal with typical grayish foal coat. My silver grulla filly had few primitive markings, if any. Her dorsal was faint.






I do see a lot of people with smokey blacks too who think they have grulla/o.


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## Flying minis (Feb 1, 2012)

I have a really well marked grulla mare, and in winter she is gorgeous, cross, leg barring, wide dorsal. . . BUT, when I clip her for shows, it's really hard to keep the markings. When the hair is so short her markings just don't show up as well. I try to clip her far enough ahead that I get some color back, without having her too long haired (she doesn't do halter, but DOES do showmanship, so I can't leave her too long). I'm thinking of trying Rose Oil on her coat this year, since Ive heard that will intensify her color, and then maybe her markings will show up better when she's clipped? I don't show her in color class though, because she has a partial white tail - the only time I showed her color I had 2 judges debating if she was solid or multi-color - under 4 judges out of 8 she got a third and a fifth - two thought she shouldn't be in solid color class. So she can't show either color class, basically.


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## Mona (Feb 1, 2012)

The primitive markings can vary greatly in intensity from horse to horse, so even though they have them, some are not as obvious as others.


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## rabbitsfizz (Feb 1, 2012)

Duns of any kind (Grullo- it does not change gender, btw- is black dun) do not have to have primitive markings of any kind at all. In Europe, animals that show stripes or neck barring are called zebra or donkey duns.

The easiest way to tell if an animal is dun, if you are not sure, is to test it.

Rabbit is a red dun, no stripes no shoulder bars, just a dorsal stripe, and darker head and legs which, due to his flaxen, vary from season to season. None of the black duns he has thrown over the years have had stripes or bars.


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## ohmt (Feb 1, 2012)

Coming from a Spanish family I say grulla for female and grullo for male, mostly out of habit. Grulla was actually the original usage before some changed it to grullo-probably for stallions. Just personal preference-i have always read that it is acceptable either way, but then again, it's been a while since I have read about it


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## Songcatcher (Feb 1, 2012)

ohmt said:


> Coming from a Spanish family I say grulla for female and grullo for male, mostly out of habit. Grulla was actually the original usage before some changed it to grullo-probably for stallions. Just personal preference-i have always read that it is acceptable either way, but then again, it's been a while since I have read about it


Ok, I understand that we use the terms to referr to Black Duns, and I understand the gender difference, but WHAT does the word actually translate to? I entered Grulla into a free translation site and got the word "crane" (possibly referring to the color of a crane?). But, when I entered Grullo, it translated it "uncouth".

Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Jill (Feb 1, 2012)

I do think it's correct to use grullo and grulla. I'm not going to discontinue


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## ohmt (Feb 1, 2012)

Grulla refers to the spanish slate grey crane. Someone down the line must have decided grulla was too feminine to call their stallion (just an assumption on my part) and started calling males grullo and females grulla.


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## Jill (Feb 1, 2012)

For whatever it's worth... it's correct to refer to males as grullo and females as grulla, but it is not incorrect not to... so either but for me and my horses... grullo and grulla





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grullo


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## supaspot (Feb 1, 2012)

ohmt said:


> I think most of the time when I see a horse labeled incorrectly as a grulla/o, it is a black foal with typical grayish foal coat. My silver grulla filly had few primitive markings, if any. Her dorsal was faint.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


do you have a pic of this horse as a foal , Id love to see what colour she was


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## ohmt (Feb 1, 2012)

I only have pictures of her at about 3-4 months already in her winter fuzzies. When she was born she looked palomino. I thought for sure she was actually and that her dam's negative cream test must have been wrong. But, when she shed her foal coat, I knew she was actually a silver grulla. Maybe you can see how light (and yellowish) the fuzz on her body is-that was her color everywhere for her first month.











Here she is her yearling/2 yr old winter:






And summer-easier to see her color here:


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## supaspot (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks



thats a really nice colour , very unusual


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## Jill (Feb 1, 2012)

He's adorable


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## Mona (Feb 1, 2012)

Great example of a grulla with the shoulder barring Diane!


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## Gamblin Park (Feb 1, 2012)

Flying minis said:


> I have a really well marked grulla mare, and in winter she is gorgeous, cross, leg barring, wide dorsal. . . BUT, when I clip her for shows, it's really hard to keep the markings. When the hair is so short her markings just don't show up as well. I try to clip her far enough ahead that I get some color back, without having her too long haired (she doesn't do halter, but DOES do showmanship, so I can't leave her too long). I'm thinking of trying Rose Oil on her coat this year, since Ive heard that will intensify her color, and then maybe her markings will show up better when she's clipped? I don't show her in color class though, because she has a partial white tail - the only time I showed her color I had 2 judges debating if she was solid or multi-color - under 4 judges out of 8 she got a third and a fifth - two thought she shouldn't be in solid color class. So she can't show either color class, basically.


Hi Flying minis I use something called Red Cell it is a liquid which is imported from the USA to us here in Australia it is very inexpensive and I feed 5ml once a day in their hard feed at night you will be stunned by the way it intensifies the colour. We have a very washed out Silver Dapple gelding here that belongs to a friend we put him on the Red Cell about 3 wks ago and we clipped him yesterday and OMG he looks awesome and the shine is brilliant I will try and get a photo of him it is very overcast today darn it but it makes Blacks very BLACK love it and maybe it could help your mare it can't hurt as it is high in Iron and Yucca etc so maybe worth a try


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## HGFarm (Feb 1, 2012)

I have had one Mini colt too a few years ago that was grulla with tons of leg striping, dorsal stripe, the tan hair in the ears that are lined black, dark face, etc.... And I agree, some folks call their horses duns or grullas that really are not.


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## rubyviewminis (Feb 2, 2012)

Just to throw a little wrench in the mix, my filly shows the similarity of the sooty gene to dun. Jewel's mother is a bay pinto and carries sooty from her sooty buckskin mother. Jewel's sire is a grullo, and he also carries cream. But she herself tested to be buckskin with no dun even tho she shows a dorsal stripe year round, her ears are lined in black. She does have the dark face mask the sooty gene can cause which can also be a similar expression of dun. We have had three black dun horses with very prominent grullo characteristics.


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## supaspot (Feb 2, 2012)

I wonder if thats the answer to identifying one of mine ...I never thought of sooty ! Thanks


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## rubyviewminis (Feb 2, 2012)

The bay on the bottom left is exactly how Jewel's dam colors in summer. It looks like very dark dapples and is very pretty. She also has a very wide darker tone along the spine which widens at the withers.

http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20Colors/sooty.htm


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## supaspot (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks for the link , I was trying to decide if this is a true dorsal or counter shading , Ive asked on another forum but didnt get too many responses , I think its to hard to tell on the winter coat of a ten month old


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## Mona (Feb 2, 2012)

Supaspot, to me, that looks like a dorsal stripe of a buckskin??? (based on that one photo alone and nothing more)


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## supaspot (Feb 3, 2012)

Thanks mona



Ill start a new thread and see what others think


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## Quester (Apr 28, 2012)

Dun genetics are always confusing. Grulla/grullo gets used as a "blanket" color way too often. It isn't really black or grey or this or that, so it must be a grulla. Or it has a dorsal so it must be a grulla. There are some good tips and tricks you can follow to help determine for the most part, but for every rule to a horse color, is an exception because the number one rule is the rules don't always apply! LOL. Duns must come from at least one dun parent so that can rule a lot of things out, if you have a grulla looking foal out of a double cream and bay mare...more than likely it is a smoky black...this is just an example. Another rule is duns must have dun factor BUT that is one rule that is not always set in stone...because a lot of other genes can affect the _appearance_ of dun factor. It _*is *_true that all duns DO have leg bars etc regardless of what has been said, the difference is you can't always see them, but genetically they are there. The sooty gene, cream gene, grey gene and roan gene can all affect the appearance of dun factor. Some grullas/duns have black come up so high on the leg that it merges with the leg bars and the leg bars "seem" to not be there. Some horses with the "wild bay" coat pattern have black so LOW on the legs that again, it seems as if they do not have dark leg barring. So you can not always go on the APPEARANCE of dun factor but they do always carry it if the dun gene is present, but it can be masked. I have also noticed that minis are really good at not showing much leg bar, I personally think it is because the leg is shorter and doesn't leave much room for all the color candy that a longer leg does. Look for dorsals that go down into the tail, dorsals that seem to stop flat right at the edge of the rump/beginning of tail are usually counter shade. Sooty is very good at mimicking dun factor and so is champagne. Many champagnes in the larger breeds especially, have very good false dun factor. I have seen sooty buckskins with very convincing dun factor but usually there is just something about it that doesn't quite say "dun gene" if you know what to look for. I have a dunskin Missouri Foxtrotter. She tested Dd. She does not have an ounce of dun factor. Nada. She has the wild bay coloring and black very low on her legs. She has NO dorsal, ear bars, shoulder bars or leg bars...no zippers, nothing. She has a very frosted mane but that can be found in buckskins too. She was out of a red dun mare and smoky black. I tested her because as a foal she did seem to have dun characteristics and her coat color does seem more "dun" (a flatter tone) than buckskin. There is a slight period when she sheds from winter to summer coat where you can see the most faint dorsal, shoulder and leg bars. The dun factor is there, it is masked in her case. I was actually surprised she tested dun. So for sure, when in doubt test. I have known a few others that had no dun factor present at all, test D... The dun gene is still not 100% understood but for sure, if you are going to advertise a "rare grulla"...that doesn't drip with dun factor and has a dorsal only in a certain season etc, etc, I would like to personally see the claim backed up with a test.



I love duns, they are the best color in the world, some think all horses carry dun factor but unless it is acted upon by the dun gene (or others) it is hidden. This may be true since some genes also seem to bring out "dun factor appearances" like sooty etc. It has been my experience in the mini world (not so much in other breeds I am involved with) that most minis advertised as grullas OR duns are silver dapples or smoky blacks or sooty buckskins...just my experience and I am ALWAYS on the look out for a dun.


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## Morganite (Mar 24, 2013)

I couldn't resist the pretty little filly. I bought her two months ago from a woman that owns a livestock sale barn. The owner didn't want her and left her behind and the woman that owned the sale barn kept her. Her next stop was our home and that is all that I know about this sweet baby girl. Any body guess her color? Dun? Silver Grulla? She was a pickle to get her feet trimmed, but she is getting much better as I handle her feet daily.

The black mare is a mare that is a 4 year old this year and she is going to foal around May 5th, 2013. I purchased her February 2012 and we are the sixth owner of this mare. She was very shy in the beginning, but she is doing much better now. Loves to run! Mini in size Thoroughbred at heart. Both horses are on safe choice, excellent hay, pasture, oil mixed with the right Omega 3's and 6's and omega shine. They are shedding out beautifully this year and they both have solid feet and just received a bill of good health from our vet last week. She didn't have the ultra sound machine on her, but she is coming back next week with it. She said she would bet her reputation that the little one is going to foal the first week or so of April.


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