# AMHA new Halter Stock Horse Division!



## Charlotte (Feb 23, 2014)

How awesome is this?

Starting 2014 AMHA will offer a Halter Stock Horse Division. All of the details are not worked out yet, but local shows can offer classes and there will be 11 classes at World in 2014.

For those who breed and prefer the more stock type miniature horse.Now IS The Time!

This is a very exciting time for us as AMHA members as our association provides even more options for our horses.

We will now have 2 divisions of halter horses and classes for each type.

Watch the AMHA web site for future news on this exciting new concept.

*****UPDATE **** The AMHA Stock Division is heading for the wire! This committee has worked day and night to have all of the information pulled together in what must be record time. The committee has an international judge on it and input from another one for all who worry about judging issues. YOU decide what division you want to show your horse in. Hopefully the guidelines will answer most of your questions and the final product should be available in less than a week. Frank is receiving daily calls and emails from those anxious to participate so we are hoping that this will make a lot of AMHA members happy.*****

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FINAL UPDATE

FIRSTLet me say that I am not an official representative of AMHA. I am a member of the Stock Type Halter Division Committee. If you have questions not answered by the official information below please call the office (remembering that this is a new Division and the office may need a little time to gather the correct information for you)

Let the excitement begin!

The AMHA Stock Type Halter Division is a new concept in the American Miniature Horse show world. AMHA is presenting this new division in a test format. If you are as enthusiastic about this new division as are so many of the people contacting us, there are three things you can do to ensure that this new division becomes a permanent part of AMHA. Those things are:

1. Contact your regional Director and let him know how enthusiastic you are about this new division.

To find the Director's contact information go to the

REGIONAL MAP

http://www.amha.org/index.asp?KeyName=321

Click on your state and the information will appear.

2. Contact your local club or other persons putting on shows and request that the Stock Type Halter classes be added this year.

3. Most Important**PARTICIPATE ** . The bottom line for perpetuation of this division will be the number of horses entering the classes so get out there and have fun and know you are a part of something new and exciting! The AMHA Show Rules Committee has expressed their commitment to have the full slate of 31 classes ready to present for membership approval at the AMHA Annual Meeting 2015.

Signed:

Charlotte

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Official Information:

STOCK TYPE HALTER DIVISION

(classes for 2014 are nonrated. (no points will be awarded)

Minimum classes to be offered at a local show in 2014:

Youth mares and geldings

Amateur Mares

Amateur Geldings and Stallions

Open Mares

Open Geldings

Open Stallions

Stock Type Halter Division classes which will be offered at World 2014 and may be offered at local shows in 2014 if desired:

Youth Mares

Youth Geldings

Amateur Mares

Amateur Geldings

Amateur Stallions

Open Junior Mares

Open Senior Mares

Open Junior Geldings

Open Senior Geldings

Open Junior Stallions

Open Senior Stallions

Stock Type Halter Division

Standards of Conformation and Movement

GENERAL IMPRESSION An attractive horse where everything is proportionate and all parts tie in smoothly. All gaits are smooth and purposeful exhibiting natural athleticism. Horses are judged on balance, structural correctness and sex characteristics. Of these, balance is the most important.

S TA N C E - The American Miniature Horse Associations Stock Type Horse normally stands at ease with his legs perpendicular to the ground and parallel with each other. The horse should exhibit a balanced stance and stand on the corners of his body, as opposed to being spread too far apart or crowded too close together, or parked out.

H E A D - The head of an AMHA Stock Type Horse reflects inquisitive intelligence. He has a short, broad head that is straight or slightly dished topped by small to medium ears hooked towards the center line at the tips; kind wide-set eyes; large nostrils; small muzzle, and firm mouth. A domed forehead is a fault.

N E C K - The head of the AMHA Stock Type Horse joins the neck at a roughly 45-degree angle, with a slender throatlatch allowing him to move easily in any direction while maintaining his balance. The medium to long neck should be slightly arched and blend smoothly into sloping shoulders.

S H O U L D E R S - The AMHA Stock Type Horses short strong back is created by deep sloping shoulders tying in well back.

C H E S T A N D F O R E L E G S - As demonstrated by the heart girth and relatively wide-set forelegs, the AMHA Stock Type Horse is deep and broad in the chest. Smooth joints and short cannon bones are set on clean fetlocks and medium length pasterns are supported by healthy hooves. The forearm tapers to the knee, whether viewed from the front or back.

B A C K - The short back of the AMHA Stock Type Horse is full and strong across the loins. The barrel is formed by deep, well sprung ribs which extend to the hip joints. The underline, or abdominal area, should rise cleanly to the flank. The point of the croup should be no higher than the top of the withers. The tail is set off a long, rounded croup.

H I N D Q U A RT E R S - Viewed from either side or the rear, the hindquarters are broad, deep and adequately muscled through the thigh, stifle and gaskin down to the hock. When viewed from the rear, there is adequate width extending evenly from the top of the thigh to the gaskin. The hocks are wide set, deep and straight.

B ONE S, L E G S AND HO O V E S - Flat, strong bones, smooth joints and proper angulations form a leg that is attractive and functional. The hooves are proportionate to overall conformation

MUSCLING -The AMHA Stock Type Horse should have muscling adequate to function, but is not a heavily muscled breed. Overly heavy muscling is a fault.

MOTION- Stock Type horses track straight and true with a ground covering motion. At all times they should appear confident, balanced and athletic. Excessive knee and/or hock action is a fault.

Stock Type Illustration




Standards and Style

1. Stock division horses will be shown in a stock horse manner with the horse standing still, calm and square. Baiting will be strongly frowned upon.

2. The handler should stand towards the left side of the horses center line, more or less facing horse.

3. Stock type/western show halters will be the accepted standard. At local shows a clean/new nylon halter will suffice. An Arabian type halter is unacceptable.

4. Leads may have chains, but chains may only go under chin and not over the nose or in the mouth.

5. Shaving/razoring of heads will be contrary to accepted style. Clipping is permitted.

6. Banding or braiding of manes is contrary to accepted style.

7. Pulled or undercut manes are acceptable.

8. Manes should be natural and of moderate length.

9. Tails should be off the ground.

Requirements

1. A horse may not show in more than one halter division at any show with the exception of color classes. Versatility is considered a performance class and this does not apply.

2. There will be no instances of halter competition between horses representing stock and the other division such as supreme champion classes.

3. Current rules for handlers dress will apply to both divisions.

4. Current halter ring pattern will be used for both divisions.

FAQs

Q. Will classes at Local shows be official?

A. Yes when they finish working their way through the system in time for the 2015 annual meeting. For 2014 they are non rated.

Q. If a horse shows in the Stock Type Halter Division at a local show can the same horse show in the other Divisions Halter classes at World?

A. Yes

Q. How will a horse qualify for World in 2014?

A. There are no qualifying requirements for Stock Type Halter for the 2014 World Show. However, if you wish to enter other classes at the World Show, the horse will have to qualify for those.

Q. If I show Stock Type horse in versatility or color, how shall I present it.

A. Judges will judge the horse against the standard for which the horse is presented. If you wish your horse to be judged according to the Stock Type standard, your horse should be presented using the tack and style for a stock Type horse.

Q. Will Stock Type classes count towards Honor Roll?

A. Since not all shows will have the opportunity to add Stock Type classes during 2014, due to the fact there may not be time to add them, Stock Type classes will not count towards Honor Rolls for 2014.


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## 2minis4us (Feb 23, 2014)

Thanks for the info ! It's about time now a horse can be a horse and not have to look like a greyhound.


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## Kendra (Feb 23, 2014)

While I do prefer "using" horses, my initial thought reading this is, "Really? MORE classes?"


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## Minimor (Feb 23, 2014)

I look forward to hearing how this goes over.

I can't agree with the insinuation above that the two choices are "greyhound" and "stock horse" types.

My first thought was--I hope AMHR never follows suit, because we sure don't need any extra "type" classes at our local shows.


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## Dreamer (Feb 23, 2014)

That is great!!!!!! This makes me wish I could show AMHA. As the owner of a B size stock style horse I can only hope that maybe AMHR will eventually decide to do the same.


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## JMS Miniatures (Feb 23, 2014)

Dreamer said:


> That is great!!!!!! This makes me wish I could show AMHA. As the owner of a B size stock style horse I can only hope that maybe AMHR will eventually decide to do the same.


Couldn't agree more. Despite I don't agree with them closing down the registry this is a step towards the right direction and anxious to see how this plays out.


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## valshingle (Feb 23, 2014)

While I'm not against these classes per se, with the current financial status of AMHA I don't see how we can afford to add 11 classes. I thought there was a moratorium on adding classes at the World Show?

I also heard that in these classes, the horses will show with shortened/pulled manes and shorter tails. Some of these horses might also compete in driving and liberty. I'm hoping the shorter manes and tails are optional.


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## Charlotte (Feb 23, 2014)

Val, a good question and this exactly was brought up at the meeting. Frank broke it down financially for the membership. As I understand it, the classes on which there is a moratorium are classes divided off of an already existing class (like another height break etc)and the class they are wanting to divide doesn't even make. Dividing it will cause a greater financial loss. The 11 stock type classes will bring new horses to the show bringing in more revenue to AMHA.

I'm sure he can explain it to you better than I can.


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## Tony (Feb 23, 2014)

Many years ago we had classes for model stock and model refined. Not sure that was the exact name, but you get the idea. When the same horse started winning both classes, we did away with it. FYI. Will it be like driving, i.e., pick a style and stick with it for the show season.


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## amysue (Feb 23, 2014)

I would like to learn more about this. I have been refraining from showing at the AMHA shows in my area because most of my horses are of a stockier build and I couldn't compete with the arab type primarily shown there. We don't have any local AMHR shows close to me so I have been focusing on open and pinto shows. This would give us the opportunity to compete with the big guys. I hope it works out.


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## supaspot (Feb 24, 2014)

I think it could bring in more new people and thus more money , a great idea


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## Charlotte (Feb 24, 2014)

..."these classes are for the modern, athletic, using type of horses many are breeding today." Horses with more of a 'stock' type of conformation which I suspect there are thousands of them out there just waiting for a place to show. Now they can go show in their halter classes then go drive or jump or do obstacle or showmanship.....the 'all around' kind of horse.


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## sfmini (Feb 24, 2014)

Absolutely ridiculous! The last thing needed is more classes and more expense! I had actually written Jim and suggested that fewer classes are in order and get rid of this everybody gets a ribbon mentality before AMHA is bankrupted. Cut halter classes in half, fewer size divisions until entries justify otherwise. I won't show any more especially at the world show where classes have 11 or 12 entries, sometimes fewer. The value and prestige is gone and I just can't justify throwing thousands of dollars to show where a top ten is really no longer the big deal it used to be. I quit breeding last year and sold or gave away most of my horses. I am down to a gelding, two stallions and two mares. Hate to do it, but I think I will have to sell the stallions after I geld them.

The addition of an entire division is going to make the halter classes even smaller than before and I don't know if you guys know how expensive those awards are but they are incredibly expensive.


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## Charlotte (Feb 24, 2014)

Hey Jody, Thanks for your input. Why don't you contact Frank to get a better understanding of this concept.


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## Julie/Azariah (Feb 25, 2014)

Jody, I am sorry you feel this way...Here are some of the issues we looked at. First of all, there are very few AMHA horses that can compete in the classes with the ultra refined, extreme type that they are pinning. Since they feel they can't compete they don't come... we hope this will draw some people to the local shows, regionals and even worlds. This will allow those who can't compete in those classes to bring a horse that might not be as upright, not QUITE as refined. Instead of allowing an increase in the height to attract more folks... this is allowing more of the horses that meet AMHA's height requirements to do well in a halter class. There are lots of things to iron out as they figure out how to "define" the type. But basically the horse would be shown as the quarter horses and paints show, not as much baiting and stretching, tail would not be on the ground, no razoring, and using a western type halter. As far as pulling and shortening main, we discussed that the mane should probably be "natural" since it would be next to impossible to pull a mini's mane, and it would probably end up sticking straight up. These horses would also be competing in performance events, so we really don't want them to be "stand outs" so we discussed just allowing the mane to be long.

This is a TRIAL period for 3 years. We have not committed to keeping it if it is not a success, but I truly think it will have very full classes.

The judges are already there for the world show, the building is already rented, the awards will be paid by entries, it won't "cost" AMHA anything.

This isn't adding anything outside of our current breed requirements. These are horses 34" and under that meet the breed requirements are correct but different than our current extreme arabian type that are winning.

We do not need to divide the classes that we already offer at worlds, we need to include some classes that will draw something that will draw additional horses.

I personally have horses that have beautiful conformation just not as upright and extreme ... we may bring them back into the show ring this year since they will be more competitive! I am EXCITED about this! Don't shoot it down until we give it a try.

It will be up to the judges to stick to the standards for each type and make sure that they don't pin extreme arabian type in the Stock/Classic Type classes


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## sfmini (Feb 25, 2014)

I wish everybody well and hope for you that it works out.

I hadn't heard talk of increasing height, that would have been a travesty. That for sure would have caused me to cancel my lifetime membership in AMHA.

I still think you need to look at the existing class entries and reduce the number of splits by height until entries justify more classes. At least allow local shows to split or combine halter classes in a way that makes sense based on entries. I've been to too many shows where there will be a 28" and under horse, maybe 2 28 - 30, and so on. Besides making it like watching paint dry and everybody getting a ribbon and 1/2 points, allow that class to be 34 and under and remind the judge that the rulebook is quite clear that all things being equal, the smallest horse wins.

I don't have a dog in the hunt any more, I am no longer showing for many reasons, one being a greedy person who has the money and employees to have the horses to dominate the entire open and ammy divisions in EVERY class at EVERY show in our region. No, the person doesn't show AOTE, but there is just a different atmosphere at the shows now than there was before. The camaraderie is gone, and I just don't enjoy spending thousands of dollars for ribbons that aren't going to increase the value of my horses.

In everything you have to ask yourself what's in it for me? when I answered this time, the answer was wasted money, exhaustion, wasted vacation time.......

For me the straw that broke the camel's back was a farm that moved a few miles up the road with 100+ minis and 100+ ponies and has the money to advertise. The market has been diluted so badly here by that move.

As I said, I wish you the best, hope it works, I can see that it could and our greedy person will be thrilled to have several more horses to show....... Our horses really don't fit in that division, they are closer to the other but not quite there and I am not into either look, and refuse to razor as I think it looks terrible.

Time to see if I can return some enjoyment for myself with my horses and decide a course from there.


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## targetsmom (Feb 25, 2014)

I am all for bringing in new people to show, but I am not sure this is the way to do it. I am willing to see how it goes though. The first year it may bring in people with somewhat stockier minis or the all around horses that WE breed for. But how long will it take for big breeders to see it as another class to put their horses in? Surely big breeders will also have horses of this type, but perhaps they are being left home now? One of the reasons we like to show at Pinto shows, and even local unrated shows, is that when you have at most TWO halter classes, the big breeders stay away and you get the kind of competition I think you are looking for. When I show I like to feel I am showing against "people like me" (but probably younger LOL!) and that on a good day with judges that think like I do, I have a chance to win. But I don't like to win just because I have the only horse in the class.


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## Kendra (Feb 25, 2014)

Charlotte said:


> ..."these classes are for the modern, athletic, using type of horses many are breeding today." Horses with more of a 'stock' type of conformation which I suspect there are thousands of them out there just waiting for a place to show. Now they can go show in their halter classes then go drive or jump or do obstacle or showmanship.....the 'all around' kind of horse.


But isn't this the kind of horse that the standard of perfection calls for? And isn't this the kind of horse horse that should be winning the halter classes? Just a thought ...

I would hate to see Miniature Horses end up like the Quarter Horses, so specialized in their breeding that halter horses/pleasure horses/reining horses doesn't even look like the same breed. One of the very best things about the Miniature Horse is their ability to be an everything horse, and I feel like by adding this class the registry is acknowledging that they are encouraging the breeding horses that can win at halter but can't do anything else.

Just my thoughts, YMMV.


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## JMS Miniatures (Feb 25, 2014)

Those who are against it like Jody and I am in agreement with her is the class numbers are low at Worlds, so my question to those who are against it is what would you do to bring more people in to show?

I like this idea, just as much as AMHR coming up with they draft type halter class but I like the stock type class much better. There are a lot more stock type minis out there then your true draft type mini, love the idea of showing them in a western halter and not have them razored.

I hope tho that in the rules for this new class that no cross-entering will be allowed between the open halter class and the stock-type class and that a requirement is for them to show in a performance category class. That should not be a big deal. In AMHR for the draft type halter class you have to show in a draft driving class. The driving part isn't the problem it's the expense, the braids, the draft harness, the draft cart, which IMO keeps numbers down but I see the reason for it but if you saw the single draft driving class this year it was huge, mostly thanks to the draft halter class new people including myself started showing in the draft driving class. Or look at the Western Country Pleasure class this class is just as big as the Country Pleasure class, and take AMHA's Classic Driving class for example it looks big as well, and yet when another new division comes into play people are already against it before it has begun but to me I say give it a chance.

In a way I'm just disappointed this has come up after the registry closed. I had thought about hardshipping my 2 geldings in before they closed but they proved themselves already in AMHR I shouldn't need to prove them in another registry, especially one being 12 years old. Well that 12 year old gelding would have been perfect for this class. I consider him a "stock type" mini and he does well in performance with a HOF in Western and the other in Obstacle and he isn't that far for his Hunter HOF but not sure if I will take him back out for that or not, but for this class I would have considered hardshipping him in so I could show him in it, but that won't happen now, but I hope this class is a success.


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## Debby - LB (Feb 25, 2014)

My first thought was like what Jody said but reading Julies post I can see now how this could be wonderful. I am just wondering how y'all will "define" the type ? and thinking about that, it makes me wonder how the standard of perfection got so far off track as to make this even necessary?


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## bevann (Feb 25, 2014)

I agree with Kendra's comment about Minis going the way of the Quarter Horse-almost like 2 distinct breeds.Just wonder even now how many of the top winning refined upheaded Mins do any performance classes and place well.I am concerned about the ultra thin legs I am seeing on many of the Minis in the ring.How long before we begin to see popped splints, bowed tendons and other leg issues like big horses have that we have not seen much in Minis in previous years.


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## sfmini (Feb 25, 2014)

Does this mean a new standard of perfection is to be written for the stock type horse?

To me, stock horses are not the type of athlete I look for as I come from a dressage background. I look for movement and balanced conformation of a HORSE which is where I differ now and why I am at a crossroads.

The horse type I like is not competitive in either division so I am moving on to carriage driving at an entry level.


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## HGFarm (Feb 25, 2014)

I think this is awesome!!!!!!! There are many folks out there with beautiful horses but just cant compete in the 'greyhound' classes that I have seen halter leaning towards. (though they are stunning as well) I think this is just another step in promoting a versatile aspect of the Mini world.


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## targetsmom (Feb 25, 2014)

I definitely like the idea of requiring entry in at least one performance class for these horses! Then award a high point for the most points for halter and performance (like Pinto does) and you will get my attention. The big breeders will use it for their driving horses, but still an improvement. My issue is that I WANT a horse with good balanced conformation but don't want to do what you need to do to them to be competitive in AMHA halter. Don't confuse type or conformation with CONDITIONING.


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## Performancemini (Feb 25, 2014)

Yes, I see the problem as it is in many breeds, including our Shetlands and current miniatures; where one type blends into another in some cases. A grey area, where a horse is almost neither this nor that in type. And then it begins to become almost fad like (don't mean this as a slur) where one type becomes the "thing" and a slightly lesser horse in "type" becomes overlooked. And it's nothing new. It's been around for ages.


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## JMS Miniatures (Feb 25, 2014)

sfmini said:


> Does this mean a new standard of perfection is to be written for the stock type horse?
> 
> To me, stock horses are not the type of athlete I look for as I come from a dressage background. I look for movement and balanced conformation of a HORSE which is where I differ now and why I am at a crossroads.
> 
> The horse type I like is not competitive in either division so I am moving on to carriage driving at an entry level.


I've seen plenty of Quarter Horses that are true athletes but look at AQHA the biggest horse registry in the world where they themselves have a performance halter class, sure its the complete opposite from us there open halter horses are heavily muscled that don't fit their frame and can't be athletic to do any sort of performance events they created the performance halter class to give the smaller athletic horses a chance to compete in a halter class when they themselves are nice individuals they just can't compete against the giant hulk looking halter horses.


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## Flying minis (Feb 27, 2014)

I don't think it's wrong to allow minis to have different types. It's completely different than AQHA, which has "types" within a breed, where performance horses essentially are completely different than halter horses. Why? Because we don't have a "miniature quarter horse association" or a "miniature arabian association" or a "miniature thoroughbred association". We have a miniature HORSE association. That should mean (to me at least) a miniature of ANY BREED OF HORSE. My thoughts are that there should be room for all breed types in the mini association, similar to the Pintos, who recognize they are a COLOR breed and welcome any breed type.

I think comparisons to other single breeds are not supportable. The devil is in the details, and yes, the judging of this new division will make a big difference in how it evolves, because it too will evolve. But I don't see anything wrong with - in fact would welcome - the two divisions evolving in DIFFERENT directions. It brings in more players, which is what is needed to keep the organization viable. I wish I could show in the new division, but my "stock types" are AMHR and oversize for AMHA. : (


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## srminiatures (Mar 2, 2014)

omg this is so great =) im so happy!!!! Now I can show my 2 boys in halter =)


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## Tab (Mar 10, 2014)

My hope is that it works out, too. Sadly, so many of these ideas are better in theory.


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## Charlotte (Mar 13, 2014)

Check out the UPDATE on the original post.


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## LaVern (Mar 13, 2014)

I hope this works for the shows. But someone said that "they" are picking the greyhound. Well, who is they? Judges,-they determine which type wins in the show ring. So find out what type that judge likes and go or stay home. If you care about winning. The best show manager I ever knew, always made sure she had judges of different persuasions, that wouldn't fall in line, but stick to what they liked. Also I feel that judges should have to write a little description as to what they are looking for. Judges are giving us their opinion and that is what we hire them for, but if you knew ahead what they like, you could or could not subject your self to their opinion.

Adding - Yeah I think all show managers should demand a little write up from the judges they hire, as to what they like to see in both halter and performance, not just their names.


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## Margo_C-T (Mar 15, 2014)

What an absolutely 'bang-up' idea, LaVern!! I agree 100%! Anyone worth their salt as a judge should be required to be able to clearly state what they are looking for and what their parameters are....


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## disneyhorse (Mar 15, 2014)

How exactly does a judge articulate (admit) or even notice preferences like "I will place a pretty head over a weak hip" or "I tend to pin horses with big front end action over breaks in gaits or hind impulsion?"

Judging is way too many variables in a way too unpredictable playing field. I've still got to say that for the vast majority, judges place fairly. And those who say otherwise just have sour grapes. No one can see through the judges eyes.


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## bevann (Mar 16, 2014)

I like your idea Margo.When I go o our state fair and watch cattle and hog judging when the judge places each animal he /she has the mike and states why that placement was made.I think it should be that way in horses(wishful thinking)


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## JMS Miniatures (Mar 16, 2014)

The only way that would work is if the judge, and I don't think it would work with with more then 1 judge, explained what he likes and dislikes during the class. Make it a show/clinic at the same time. Of course people must be prepared for criticism if the judge doesn't care for your horse but IMO it's a learning experience for everybody. The problem with doing it after each class for our shows is it will take so long because our shows are long enough as it is.

But I totally agree when I was at a fair the judge was talking about each animal that was in the ring and I thought that would be awesome if we had that at one of our shows we go to. As far as the judges not picking like they are suppose to I think most of your judges are judging right and most of it is sour grapes. BUT, their have been plenty I have questioned on. Yes some will go off type, it's bound to happen, we see it all the time, but its not fair to bash an idea down already before it has begun and say people will complain because a judge will judge off type. It's going to happen, and you won't stop it from happening.


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## joylee123 (Mar 16, 2014)

I think this is a wonderful idea!!!! I was so excited when I heard this!! It gives everyone a chance to have a good time, show their horses and win a ribbon and points and maybe even realize a dream with the horse of their heart!. I am sorry there are some who are against it, but from their posts sound like they are not participating and AMHA anyhow.

As far as having too many splits in size. I disagree. I love being able to complete against other horses of the same size. That is one of the main reasons I don't show AMHR, not enough size splits for me. As far as the World show not being prestigious enough....They are still some of the best horses in the industy and I am proud to compete in that arena!! Not trying to be rude but so many have nothing to say but negative spewing, I love to hear others ideas but the negativity and slurs get old, which is why I rarely venture here anymore


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## Charlotte (Mar 19, 2014)

See FINAL UPDATE in the original post


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## Silver City Heritage Farmstead (Mar 19, 2014)

Thank you for the updates! I've followed this with much interest. With this division being developed, I'm seriously reconsidering some of my reasons for choosing not to join AMHA. It definitely gives me a venue that may be more appropriate/competitive for the types of animals I prefer. It's also another reason for me to consider competing in halter.

I'll surely be looking for an opportunity to observe it in my area!

As an aside, saw a couple of craigslist ads that had recently been updated (and prices raised accordingly!) They were touting the "these horses will do well in the new AMHR stock division" line as a great new marketing tool. I forwarded a link to this thread as well as one to the AMHA website. Included in the email I explained that I was sending educational information. Haven't received a reply and ads haven't been corrected.

Makes me sad and irritated....is the misinformation just a mistake? I'm hoping so, as the the option is that it's on purpose to mislead newcomers.

Makes me SO VERY GLAD I found this forum and that so many of you give very generously of your time and experience. You've saved me from making many purchasing mistakes. You've also helped me refine my ideals and 30 year (in my case 15 year--since I got started late) plan. Being well-educated is the most effective way....for me....to accomplish my goals.

Off semi-related soap box now!!!

Again, thanks y'all!!


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## Julie/Azariah (Mar 19, 2014)

I have been privileged to be part of this process and certainly look forward to seeing how things progress from here... and yes... I said progress! I feel this IS PROGRESS!

It may have a few bumps along the way, but think of the possibilities. For 2014, a year of BEGINNING for this new area, please help support this new concept by trying it out with some of your horses. Get out there! There is no way to really know how it will turn out until we GO FOR IT!!! and that is what we as an Executive Committee, Board of Directors and membership have decided to do. We need to see the people who are excited for this, the judges need to see the horses out there in the ring ~ the different types ~ so that they can in their own minds work on perfecting their judging. We need to have participation and let others see how much FUN we have.

My son and I have been showing for years. Not because of WINNING... though it sure does get exciting when the judges like what you are doing. Each and every show we go, with our horses as prepared as we can have them at that point, we show our hearts out, sometimes we place, sometimes we don't and ... sometimes we WIN! But most importantly we learn something new at each show and we have FUN!!!

At one show we were at years ago, a judge (who was judging worlds that year) came up to me after one of the classes and said... "man... you and your son sure have fun out there" ( we were showing 2 driving horses against each other and having a blast with it) I looked at him rather surprised and said..."Well, If we weren't having fun, I sure wouldn't drive 6-8 hours, work my tail off every day, clip horses when it is 100 degrees out.... we better be having FUN!" Fun is not winning every class. Fun is doing something together as a family, meeting new people who have the same passion you do, competing with other folks so you can see what you need to work on, working hard, sweating, crying when you are so frustrated, continuing to work at it and getting to a show and seeing what all that hard work has done!

I think we need to give MORE people the opportunity to have fun with us. I think sometimes the reason there are so few horses at some of the bigger shows in some of the halter classes is because many of the AMHA horses people have just could not compete in the classes with what the judges are pinning according to our current standard of perfection. Though their horses are beautiful, well proportioned and correct, they are a different type. Lets include and welcome these horses and their owners into the show world!!!

I am excited...I am ready.... come on show season 2014 ~ as soon as I can find my roundpen, and my horses are not up to their knees in muck in the ring and yard.... we will be prepping some horses for both the Stock Type and Current Standard Halter Classes!


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## Silver City Heritage Farmstead (Mar 19, 2014)

Thanks Julie/Azariah! I feel your post was very timely for the following reasons:

First--The judges can only pin what's in the ring. Unlike dog shows, where a judge can decide NO dog in the ring meets the breed standard and can withhold placements/points, horse judges must pick a winner. More participation=more opportunities for judges to place animals they feel represent the breed most truly.

Second--it should be FUN!! The majority of us showing aren't professionals. We may be showing to showcase our breeding programs. Correct me if I'm wrong..my impression is the largest percentage of us do it because we ENJOY it. With so many of the folks I've met during the last 3 years, they've come to miniatures from other breeds. A lot of more...ahem...."experienced" folks. I remember hearing stories and reading about the wonderful, close relationships people developed when they showed for FUN. Wins were celebrated as icing on the cake to hard work. Losses were learning experiences. If your neighbor did great, you celebrated with them.

Perhaps the boom days of the '80's and '90's did a disservice to show venues for ALL breeds. That seems to be when the shift from mom & pop/family shows to a BIG PROFESSIONAL bells and whistle production came about.

Mayhaps by participating in this new division, we can bring some of that homey feeling back to the show venue. As I said, for me, this came about at a good time. As I look for my replacement for Casper, I've very seriously reconsidered my position toward AMHA. That AMHA horse is looking a lot more attractive now.

The other Julie. ;-)


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## nighttrain (Mar 23, 2014)

I am very excited about this division.

My horses are triple registered, AMHA, AMHR, and PtHA. Up to now I have only shown in some R and Pinto shows.

I prefer the stock type horse, so naturally I didn't try to go to shows where the slim, Arabian type horse was the norm.

I came out of the quarter horse/paint/pinto world to the mini world so naturally I would like a horse with more substance.

Nothing wrong with the other types, I just happen to like the stock type.

I will definitely reconsider my stance as far as the shows I go to.

I am very glad that this decision was made.

Thank you to all the people who worked to make this a reality.


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## HGFarm (Mar 24, 2014)

Thank you so much for the updates and info!!

I am very happy to see classes offered for what MOST of the Miniatures horses reflect and what would be a halter standard for a good performance horse. (To me there should not be any difference, as correct and desired conformation SHOULD be able to perform as well, but alas we have seen the division here in the Miniatures)


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## bumfuzzled (Apr 3, 2014)

This is very interesting!

A quick perusal of the 2014 AMHA rule book shows that the BOD has acted contrary to the bylaws to enact this new "division"......

While there seem to be a number of forum members here EXCITED that their horses might be able to show in this new "division" there are also a number of forum members who feel that this new "division" would be just that, a division of AMHA. But either way it appears to be either white wash for a few with an agenda or just a poor attempt to sell an agenda under the guise of desperation to generate income in order to not have to "starts slicing off chunks of meat".

This is being brought to the attention of the membership by the same AMHA member who chaired the LONG RANGE PLANNING COMMITTEE but did no budget or fiscal planning in that capacity (even though he held the position of Treasurer also). The
Stock Horse Division is being sold to the membership as a way to make a flailing horse association viable again in the same way that President Obama is white washing his health care plan to the American public. BAIT and SWITCH.

AMHA makes the majority of it's income on membership and registration. NOT ON THE OFFICE FEES generated by entering horses in horse shows. Notice that they constantly cite numbers of horses at a horse show as some testament to the associations viability (many think these numbers are lies). While this may tell us a horse show was a success the truth is the income at a horse show is based on numbers of entries not numbers of horses as some performance horses enter as many as twenty classes and the class entries equate to the income and viability of the show.

Let's play Devil's advocate and say that in the 67 remaining AMHA shows this year there are 10 entries in each of the 6 classes (doubtful), there will be 4020 entries at an office fee paid to AMHA of $7.00 (not sure since it keeps changing). This would equate to $28,140.00. Now let's be realistic and cut this figure to 25% of that (very optomistic still) we get $7035.00. How is this going to keep AMHA from running "out of fat to cut, and starts slicing off chunks of meat"?

The "division" is being compared to the Performance Committee's plan to rewrite the Driving classes and add the Classic Division with utter disregard for the real Money Maker, the Stakes and Futurity. When the Stakes and Futurity were being run correctly they had the potential to creat a reason for members to breed and register more horses. The Classic Pleasure division just created more entries NOT MORE INCOME for AMHA (as can be evidenced by their current financial condition).

It would be advisable that the member (reading this post) go to the AMHA website and read the financials. While they are obscured by agenda one can still see the state of AMHA and where their Income comes from as well as where their greatest expense is (shows).

AMHA has not had a business plan, a Long Range Plan since McPherson was Executive Director, when there there was a plan to INCREASE Income. While it was not within the AMHA Bylaws it was a plan. Proactive instead of behind the Eight Ball as we have been ever since. Besides we haven't followed our bylaws since then anyways............

Read Franks email below and PAY ATTENTION to what he actually says.

[SIZE=14pt]*Stock Type Division Background Information*[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]By Chairman- Stock Type Division-Frank Lupton[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]

The majority of equine registries have come through the recession in financially worse shape than they were in a few years ago. We see this demonstrated in various ways from higher fees to less expensive awards at shows. The simple fact is that to keep the doors open, cuts have been made. At some point, an organization runs out of fat to cut, and starts slicing off chunks of meat. At this point there are only two choices. An organization can cut until it no longer exists, or it can find new sources of revenue. Within the AMHA, we have chosen to be proactive in our efforts to position our organization for future growth and viability.

Not so many years ago, the members of our Performance Committee and our Board of Directors realized that, even with the single pleasure and country pleasure driving divisions, we were leaving out the biggest segment of members interested in driving.

As a result of the committee's efforts, effective January 1, 2010, Classic Pleasure Driving became a reality and instantly boosted participation at shows. If you look at pages 109 and 110 of the 2014 rule book, you will note that approximately one and one half pages are devoted to providing the necessary information so both participants and judges can understand the division requirements. Similar space is given to the country and single pleasure divisions. In each case there is a sketch of how the horse should look along with word descriptions of how it should move and where its weight should be borne. Classic pleasure driving has been a boon to local, regional and even the World Show in terms of participation and income generation. In short, it was a very good idea.

If we are lucky, and or smart, in life, we pay attention when something does well and try to learn from it. Realizing the AMHA was approaching a point where budget cuts were going to be ever more painful for the membership, a presentation was made to the Finance Committee about a new halter division for shows. Pretty much the same set of facts held true for halter as were in place for driving. We were leaving out a huge segment of our horses. A simple check of historical data showed that most of our performance horses did not show in halter. Well, that's not a surprise; they are bred and built to do something different than those horses solely bred for halter. If their only choice was to be judged against our standard of perfection, they would choose to pass up showing in halter. This is exactly the same situation that existed in driving before classic was introduced. If the classic type horses' only choice was to be judged against the single or country pleasure standards, they would not participate. Simply put, classic horses are a type of their own and until we as an association recognized that, we, and they, were missing out.

The idea of a Stock Type division as a proposal was passed by the Finance Committee and then it went to the Board of Directors. It was passed by the Board and went to the membership. It was passed by the membership and a committee was formed to supply the necessary information for shows, exhibitors and judges to use with a new division. Part of this information is a Standard of Conformation and Movement for the Stock Type Division. This is a simple document that tells exhibitors and judges what to look for in the class. It is not a standard of perfection for a breed. *Do not confuse the two*. The AMHA's standard of perfection is still the only standard of perfection in use by the organization and the Stock Type Division will not change that. When the Stock Type committee finished working on the written standard, the drawing, and the other parameters of the division, the material was again presented to the Board and again passed without dissent. The plan is to have everything ready for the membership to vote on at the next annual meeting. At that point, if it so chooses, the Board can pass a standing rule to make the classes rated and pointed for the 2015 year.

The Stock Type Division is a chance for the AMHA to take a significant leap forward in terms of the future. This division will help local shows draw more participants, just as it will help the shows AMHA puts on. By getting more people involved in showing, the market for Miniature horses will, over time, stabilize and become stronger.

Given the benefits of this opportunity, I urge all who are able to try showing some Stock Types this year and by all means bring them to 2014 World. This is a chance to be part of something new and exciting. Together, let's begin building this new avenue to promote and advance the AMHA.


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## drivinghoss (Apr 4, 2014)

I find it very interesting that this is seen as a savior to AMHA's financial problems.

First of all, only 10% of the AMHA members show their horses. (that was told to me by a director) How sad this is because many members do not go see the best of best at our shows. Furthermore there are lots of people out there breeding and flooding the market with pet quality horses.

Secondly it appears that the BOD can make decisions that effects the financial well-being of the club. Since this is possible why would they not re-instate hardshipping of any horse under 34". This was a cash cow for the registry. And it brought more people to the Association.

I see this as a slap in the face of many breeders who have selectively bred horses to better the registry.


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## Field-of-Dreams (Apr 4, 2014)

drivinghoss said:


> I find it very interesting that this is seen as a savior to AMHA's financial problems.
> 
> First of all, only 10% of the AMHA members show their horses. (that was told to me by a director) How sad this is because many members do not go see the best of best at our shows. Furthermore there are lots of people out there breeding and flooding the market with pet quality horses.
> 
> ...


I don't know if that "10% show" is correct. I would think it's more.

I also feel that the people "breeding and flooding the market with pet quality horses." probably aren't AMHA (or AMHR) members as much as you'd think. It COSTS to register horses, it COSTS to be a member and it COSTS to even send in a stallion report. Something these pet breeders really aren't going to do. Yes, many of our members who don't show are breeding, but they aren't deliberately breeding pets, they are trying to better the breed.

TOTALLY agree on the hardship issue. They should have never closed it. If anything, at least let in the papered AMHR horses that qualify.

I do like this new section for the Stock Type and hope it does well. I wish AMHR had something like it, my older guy would fit the bill quite well. I know they have the draft classes, but that's another whole ballgame with the necessity of getting all that driving gear, cart and the white drafter headstall, plus the braiding and ribbons and such. A stock halter is more easily acquired and carted around.


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## bumfuzzled (Apr 4, 2014)

drivinghoss said:


> I find it very interesting that this is seen as a savior to AMHA's financial problems.


It's ridiculous that the AMHA elected officials, BOD, can have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily and a travesty that the "wool pullers" get away with it.



drivinghoss said:


> First of all, only 10% of the AMHA members show their horses. (that was told to me by a director) How sad this is because many members do not go see the best of best at our shows.


Let's do the numbers..............the AMHA purports to have over 10,000 members (evidenced numerous places such as the Texas Event Grant application). 10 percent of that is 1000. To come up with an estimate let's say that the average owner shows 5 shows and that average owner takes 2 horses to a show. We are lucky to see 100 horses at a show. So 68 2014 local shows divided by 5 is 13.6 times 50 equals 680. I would venture to say 1000 members showing is a very close number when you add youth and spouses.


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## Riverrose28 (Apr 4, 2014)

I don't know about the 10% showing, we used to show and did very well, even bred a Champion ourselves, but that was then and this is now. The miniature horse is becoming a breed, and not what it used to be, so many that are or were breeding the older type mini are no longer showing or even breeding, we aren't. If you ask me IMO if Mr. Boone took Buckaroo into the show ring this year he would get the gate, and then be turned into a cull,as would all of Mr. Williams Dell Tera horses as those horses are no longer representative of our breed. Yes the halter horse has evolved and some are left out of the show arena because of it. So this is my question, and it doesn't effect us as we are done, but, since this is a trail for 2014 why are some people opposed to it? Don't you think it may bring some back into showing and maybe some new folks, about the money they may bring in when they also cross enter classes that we all know the trainers horses are going to win, but may try anyhow. Why the opposition? Why does it matter to you?


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## JMS Miniatures (Apr 4, 2014)

_"I do like this new section for the Stock Type and hope it does well. I wish AMHR had something like it, my older guy would fit the bill quite well. I know they have the draft classes, but that's another whole ballgame with the necessity of getting all that driving gear, cart and the white drafter headstall, plus the braiding and ribbons and such. A stock halter is more easily acquired and carted around."_

I see sometime in the future AMHR will come up with a stock type division but I don't see it in the near future. I agree it would bring in more horses then your draft division would and I'm sure most of your horses that would show in the stock type halter class would also show in performance. But I do see we will have a open halter division, a stock type division, and a draft type division. The draft driving classes themselves are getting big and its thanks to the interest of the draft halter class and making it a requirement to show in a draft driving class. But its going to keep those classes small because of the braids, the type of halter, the extra cart and extra harness.

Both of our organizations have too keep the members interested in showing. In AMHR back in 2007 or 2008 they came up with the Western Country Pleasure now its as big as the Country Pleasure class. In AMHA they created a similar concept and created the Classic Driving which also appears to be just as popular as your Country. Two years ago AMHR came up with the Draft Halter type and yes entries are small but like I said before the requirements for this class is going to keep numbers down but you draft division is strong. Now AMHA has created the stock division. It's a shame people will always be against something new before it has begun and experience will show most of the time these classes become a positive experience. This year AMHR is trying to introduced the Carriage division that ASPC currently has and I hope that it will bring in the numbers.


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## bumfuzzled (Apr 4, 2014)

drivinghoss said:


> Secondly it appears that the BOD can make decisions that effects the financial well-being of the club. Since this is possible why would they not re-instate hardshipping of any horse under 34". This was a cash cow for the registry. And it brought more people to the Association.
> 
> I see this as a slap in the face of many breeders who have selectively bred horses to better the registry.


History tells us that the members driving this association (elected or not) are agenda driven. While they purport to having the interest of the members in mind they make decisions based on their feelings or needs (kind of like politicians). There have been numerous experts hired and polled by AMHA in the past and none of their advise has been heeded and their ideas rarely ever even make it to the membership. The division of the AMHA membership (close registry vs hardship, increase heights for breeding purposes vs 34" only, etc.) is the reason that they have control instead of the membership (witness the passing of numerous standing rules in direct conflict of the bylaws). We all ned to come together and make these hard decisions instead of thinking with our feelings. Either of these two options could help resurrect this assocation!

Look at the number of good hearted members who invested liberal amounts of money and time in AMHA only to have been RUN OFF.......members like Don Burdette, Gary Barnes (just to name two in the last couple of years). There have been more in the past but it's doubtful there will be more in the future, the pool is becoming very small!

AMHA needs another product to sell.

Not dilution of it's existing product.

Walmart would not be Walmart with only one product.

A Long Range Plan needs to be set and it should be a first priority, any financial counselor will tell you this. Then advertising budgets and advertising plans need to be set in motion (and let's try to sell Mini's to horse/ag people not Grand Parents). Decisions need to be made that may not please everyone but without an increase in product (product right now is only membership and registration) of some kind and an increase in customer base to go along with it AMHA will "start cutting off chunks of meat" as Frank Lutpon said. AMHA has run off most of it's vendors in the last 10 years. The first to go had no real vested interest, sign makers, clothing, bling bling girly stuff, they just went elsewhere. Second to go were the horse supply vendors, they just restructured or closed their doors (Houghton carts, Supreme Equine, Kee-Port, Etc.). Next to go the breeders like Martha Hickham, Ray Zoercher, Don Burdette, Tony Pierce and many more. So now we are running off the trainers, Tiffany Porter, Chris Colao, Patty Cloke, Sherry Ridell, and many more. Pretty soon the industry will not be in place no matter what AMHA does.

Can't any other members see this?


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## JMS Miniatures (Apr 4, 2014)

I totally see your point and I think both registries need to come up with a plan on how its going to keep it's current members, how its going to bring in new ones, how to get members update their paperwork, and how are you going to get members to show. Registrations yes foals need to be registered, but at the same time I don't want the market to be over populated with unwanted foals either. Bring in new members will equal more horses sold.

Why should I join AMHA? Why should I join AMHR? The reason I continue to be involved with AMHR is because they keep coming up with new ideas and keep me interested in showing. AMHA so far hasn't done that. The only reason I would consider showing in AMHA is because the awards are nicer, there are smaller class size compared to AMHR but its more expensive. Almost did it last year but held off, Honestly not sure if I will ever show in AMHA. With the registry closed it's even harder to try when I already have a good AMHR program going.


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## BSharpRanch (Apr 4, 2014)

I am thinking courteous, knowledgable people on the phones too. Will update with a new thread when I get it worked out. Suffice it to say that I was not treated very professionally when I asked a world show/rule question, in fact treated a bit like they thought I was stupid and without a clue. Sorry, been in customer service most of my life and that is NOT how you keep customers.


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## SampleMM (Apr 4, 2014)

Chiming in to say that AMHA has always been extremely professional with me when I have called. The other association, well let's just say that's a different story. Personally, I wish that AMHA and AMHR could join forces somehow. In this economy, it is too expensive for many people to keep up memberships in two associations. Not to mention the paperwork costs associated with belonging to two different associations. Do I think having this new stock horse division will do much for AMHA--no. I think it will give people with old fashioned horses the idea that they have a chance of winning when in reality it will be the horses that have already done a good deal of winning that will go in those classes and clean house. That's my opinion anyways.


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## Debby - LB (Apr 6, 2014)

that's a good idea Deb! in reality it would never happen but think about it you guys! that really is a good idea for all the reasons listed plus more.

I'm not completely sold on this new division. I do understand it better now and I do see the interest in it, LOVE seeing how excited some are to know they will have a place to compete with the horse they have. I sincerely hope it flies and that more people will consistently show because of it. My mind just keeps coming back to the word "Division". It just seems weird to me.... it's like if we can't compete with what is winning in the ring now let's write up a new standard and open a new division.

I look back in all my old books now and then and the quality and conformation improvement in the last 10 years alone is amazing. It's easy to see though by looking at all the photos now how we have strayed from the standard of perfection. I'm not sure how that happened, I'm doubly not sure how making up another one now will be a lasting improvement for the registry??

It seems to me like if the AMHA needed a new division it should have been for the finer boned, leggy, more extreme looking horses...since many of them really don't fit the written standard of perfection.

I don't know.. to me it's like defining type now when the Miniature Horse is not yet recognized as a breed is a step backwards.. like closing the registry I don't see that either. This is all just my opinion, I don't mean to step on anyone's toes.


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