# UPDATE 5,,,LADY IS HOME!!!!!!



## rockin r (Oct 5, 2009)

When Art went out to feed at 545 this am, she had not eaten any feed or hay from last nights feeding. He came back and got me to come look at her. She is standing with her back legs sprawled out, like she is trying to urinate, with her tail raised. Her back legs are stiff but she can move around some. When she does move it is like OUCHY, like she has be trimmed (quicked), but she has not been trimmed. I checked, no heat in her hoofs. And it looks like she has severe constant hic ups in her flank area. She did not poo last night. At 10am she did drop about 6 normals size/look muffins to the ground. Her gums are pink. No sweating, some pawing with her front leg. She is standing, must have been most of the night, her stall in not messed up. Does not have any of the "classic" colic signs. I gave her 1cc liquid Banamine at 730am, vet said to give her 2cc, that was at 10am. It "appears" that she is having trouble urinating. At first I thought Stifle, now I am not so sure. Vet asked if she was in foal trying to abort, no she is not breed, at least not by my doing. And it would be really hard for her to get breed by one of my studs, as the studs only go out at night when the mares are in their barn. And she has a smell coming from her mouth, not soured, more like a nasty garbage can smell...Anyone with any ideas that I can throw at the vet when he gets here? Which may be late this afternoon...




To add...She has very little gut sound, but it is hard for me to get my ear tight on her belly,,lots of hair coming in.

Update 1

I have been in the barn with her since I posted this. She is not any better, the Banamine seems to be doing nothing at all for her. She does not seem to be in any pain. She is still trying to urinate, only a few drops at a time. I had thought about EPM...Lord hear my prayers if it is. No matter what is aling her, I need a vet asap. I have another call out to another vet. He is not as familuar with my horses, but at this point I need someone to examine her. I will keep you posted.....

Update 2...

The 1st vet finally called, Said it could be either of the aforementioned, to bring her in ASAP, what he needs to do he can not do here. So we are off to the vets... Prayers for Lady Please!!!!





Update 3...

Lady is in critical condition..I am crying so bear with me. Her temp is 100.9... I rode in the trailer with her to the vet(25 min drive) in case she went down, which she did. I got on the 2-way and told ARt to put on his flashers and floor it. By the time we got there she was foaming at the mouth. The vet met us at the trailer and his fisrt thought was she ate something toxic. It took a few trys but he finally got the IV in and gave her something to relax her.Her blood is black and she is not moving enough air in her lungs. He said that he would try to stabilize her enough to get her to Oakridge, where we took Dreamer, the call was made and they were waiting for us to get there. I asked him to check her Calcium levels, and asked him AGAIN about the calcium deficiency, he said he had heard of it but never seen it in horses and did not think that was the issue.



After a few more heated debates, I flat out said, "DO BLOOD WORK ON HER AND DO IT NOW"!!!!!!! IF MONEY IS AN ISSUE, HERE IS MY [email protected]$M DEBIT CARD!!!! He looked at me and said money is not the issue, I don't want to charge you for things that are not nessasary. It is my money do it! He did, the tech came out 30 mins later and said her calcium levels were critical. He looked at me, and before he could say anything I asked him to give her the calcium that she needed, it did not matter who was right or wrong. He smiled and went and got what she needed. He said it was better for her to stay if she crashed again we may not get her back in time. And that she would need several doses of calcium and more IV's to flush her kidneys. He said that we could still lose her. It is very difficult to get a horse stablized at levels that low. It took us awile to get her to her stall at the vets, her back legs are completely splayed out and stiff and she is stumbing and dragging her back toes. It is amazing how quickly she fell apart....I told the vet that I did not want to leave her, and I was afraid that we would lose her and we would not be there for her.






He saiad that he would call us if he thought we should let her go so we could be there with her when she crosses, but he wanted to give her a chance. He is not optimistic, but said if she makes it through the night she has a better chance to make it...Prayers for our Ladybug





















Theresa

Update 4...

She made it through the night, Thank you God! She still is not out of the woods, apparently they can relapse very quickly, so this is going to be a 3-4 week recovery for her. She is exhausted, but she is MUCH BETTER!!! The thumping in her flanks is gone, her gums are getting back to pink, but her calcium level is still down, not critical but down. As soon as she saw us she whinnied, a GOOD STRONG WHINNEY!!!!! She still has trouble with her back legs, not as bad as yesterday. She is alert, not confused like she was yesterday. I would say her improvement from yesterday is 80%!! It was not Blister Beatles....It is her calcium/Phos levels. We are going to pick her up tonight if she continues to improve. I took some animal crackers with me this am, and she "Snatched" them out of my hand. She is Hungry!!!! Vet got her some hay, and she was chompin away looking for more. By the time I left she had several GOOD urinating and Poo's. It looks like she is going to be just fine. She will be on a paste of ??? for awhile. And we will take her back for another Blood panel to be done, (at my request). Never got an answer as to why she crashed so quickly, but you can bet your bottom dollar I will have Cal/Pho on hand from now on!!!! You learn something new everyday. If she does get to come home this pm, I will keep her in her stall untill she is strong and sure enough to be out. Way too much mud. Thank you to all who prayed for my girl....I told her this am that there were forum angels all around her last nite to keep her safe, funny thing is she looked at me and Art and nodded her head yes!



HUM>>>>>>>>>>>Can a horse get to much calcium??? Thank you my friends, And to whoever lost their horses at Worlds to Blister Beatles, I am so very sorry. Praying for a complete recovery for the others.





Update 5, and hopefully the last one...

We got Lady home an hour ago..When she saw Art pull up with the trailer we had to restrain her, she KNEW she was going HOME! She still is not very steady on her feet. She still has "alittle" thumping in her flanks. She will be stall kept for a few days, or until she can "show" me that she is able to be with her herd. And she has a long road of recovery ahead of her. The next 2 weeks will be crucial. We have to really watch her. She will take the gel for 2 weeks, And then a few days after to make sure her levels are good. We will take her back Friday for more blood work. The vet said he had heard of this in horses, but did not really believe it. He said now he is a believer! Said it will kill cattle in hours. WHen he gave me the gel I said this is for cattle, he guarr. me that it was safe for horses also. I asked if we could overdose her on calcium, he said no. He said there are NO WARNING SIGNS, But to keep this stuff on hand for the future if we should need it. If I can't but it, he will order it for me. It costs $15.00 a tube and he gave it to me, for being a GOOD, PAYING CUSTOMER! He also reduced my bill because we never owe him, we always pay him in full at the time of service. He did not tell me what the bill was, but he only charged us $185.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was so happy he thought I was going to have an anxiety attack! I told him I was just so releived that Lady made it through the night and the "APOLOGY" he gave me for not listening to me and other things. He said that he should listen to the animals owners more often, after all we do know our animals better than he does. Apology accepted, no need but accepted. We want to thank everyone for their continued prayers for our farm and us. We have NEVER met a group of people like you guys, we are humble to know you. I hope that Mary Lou will put this on the best of for everyones education and refference. The suggestions you guys gave us, saved her life. And I went with my gut feelings, took stock in the overwhelming response that it was a calcium deffeciency and made the vet do blood work. If you guys had not responded to my post with such determination, Lady would have died...Thank You all! I will let you know how she does...Theresa and Art

Here is what he gave us...The tube is the size of a tube a caulk...and we will give her Probios half hr before we give her the calcium


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 5, 2009)

This could so easily be one of a number of things there is little point guessing, unless your Vet is stumped and needs help!!

I think your best bet is to give no medication without running it by your Vet and to keep her quiet, put a blanket on to keep her back warm in case she is "tying up" and just wait.

Sorry, but as you have the Vet coming, I really do think that is your best course of action.

I shall be thinking of you!


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## rockin r (Oct 5, 2009)

Art mentioned maybe she was tying up, But why would she?? Educate me here Rabbit! I thought a horse tied up after competeing and "working"????? She has had NOTHING change in her everyday life/routine...


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## cretahillsgal (Oct 5, 2009)

Theresa, Call your vet to come check her blood calcium levels. I had a mare who did the same kind of thing last year. Stopped eating, had the hiccups thing going on. It was a condition called hypocalcemia. All my vet did was give her a calcium IV and then I had CMPK gel that I had to give her 2x a day for about a month.

I think my mare developed it as a result of changing to a different hay. With different nutrient contents. All my horses now have free choice salt and mineral blocks.

PM me if you have questions. I will give you details.


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## Riverdance (Oct 5, 2009)

Sounds like it could be epm.

I had a Morgan black gelding who showed the same symptoms as your mare and he could not urinate either. I would have to go in and remove fecal matter in order for him to be able to pee. This went on for a while. I had different Vets checked him, etc. Finially I brought him to a vet friend in Wisconsin who kept him for a while to see if there was anything that could be done. Unfortunatly for him, there was nothing and he had to be put down.

I would have you vet check for epm.


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## kaykay (Oct 5, 2009)

Does sound like thumps or hypocalcemia but you normally see it in pregnant mares or mares with a foal nursing. Or it could be laminitis. If its thumps fast treatment is imperative so I would get a vet out asap

Sending prayers for your mare


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## ClickMini (Oct 5, 2009)

hope your vet gets there soon. I had a mare that went hypocalcemic, it does sound like that. If so, she needs IV calcium ASAP.

Good luck, Theresa. (((((HUGS)))))


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## Little Bits (Oct 5, 2009)

You need a vet out there asap. It is not EPM period. It could be calcium I have a mare that had the thumps and put her on a supplement. Treatment is need asap.

However,I am thinking that the fact that this horses has only had 6 muffin sized poos since 10pm last night your mare is either tyed up or compacted. You can try giving her an enema, it wont hurt anything. I would keep her on the banamine. I have also dosed mine with 1 tablspoon of epsom salts and vegetable oil with warm water. It's and old timers trick for horses that can't pass there poo. It really does work.

Bottum line this sounds serious and you need a vet any vet asap.

Good Luck


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## Magic (Oct 5, 2009)

I don't have any ideas for you other than what others have said, just sending prayers that she will be ok, and that the vet hurries and gets out there. Poor girl.


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## REO (Oct 5, 2009)

Her being Hypocalcemic is what I thought of too. She needs calcium ASAP. I would give a bunch of enemas while you're waiting for the vet. It couldn't hurt, and will probably help ease her.

I'm so sorry this is going on Theresa!


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## Tami (Oct 5, 2009)

I lost a mare several weeks ago that sounds just like this. My vet is still stumped. She thought Hypocalcemic and did IV calcium, which seemed to help for a while but she died several hours later. What is "thumps"?


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## luv2ridesaddleseat (Oct 5, 2009)

I have no Idea, but I'm praying for you and your mare!


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## LittleRibbie (Oct 5, 2009)

Sending prayers your direction.

could someone explain thumps please

heid


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## cretahillsgal (Oct 5, 2009)

Thumps is just another name for hypocalcemia. It is when the calcium levels in the blood are out of balance with the phosphorus levels. It can be caused when a mare is heavily pregnant or nursing and the foal is pulling the mares calcium levels down too much. Or it can also be caused by exercise, stress or colic that causes their electrolytes to be off balance.

It looks just like the horse has hiccups. The belly has a rythmic twitching to it. It is easily fixed if caught early. And treated aggressively. My mare that developed it last year went on to foal a beautiful filly about 2 months later and hasn't had a problem since. I just know to keep an eye out for the symptoms now. Especially on my mares with new foals or heavily pregnant.

http://www.maxperfeq.com/calcium.htm


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## HGFarm (Oct 5, 2009)

I had a mare years ago who acted like this and she was impacted........ couldnt poop but because she hurt, didnt drink and would not pee either. Would sometimes stretch funny.... I hope she will be OK!!


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## Magic (Oct 5, 2009)

Prayers for Lady, hoping to hear good news!


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## luv2ridesaddleseat (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Thank God you told him about the calcium level thing. Jeeze, we really have to get all the knowledge we can, don't we! I'll pray like crazy for her.


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## Marty (Oct 5, 2009)

Oh no....

I have no idea just going to throw a few things out there to ponder to help you do a process of elimination:

Its odd that this came on so fast over night so my first inclination was spinal cord injury or a twist to the gut like if she got cast last night.

Feeding alfalfa by any chance? Blister beetle poisoning?

I also had a filly once presented as crippled in the hindquarters, urinating was out of the question, then started gushing at the mouth and nostrils.....she had choke

And I wouldn't rule out colic.

I always say that when in doubt, start up the activated charcoal asap because it doesn't hurt and would take care of any poisioning.

Good luck T. Hope she gets well really fast.


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## Shari (Oct 5, 2009)

All I can do is offer a Cyber Hug and hope the Vet is going to be able to pull her through. My thoughts are with you.


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## Becky (Oct 5, 2009)

Theresa, have they ruled out Blister Beetles? Another local OK breeder lost 2(?) during World and had more very sick.


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## Joanne (Oct 5, 2009)

This is my first time hearing about hypocalcemic.

Could someone familiar with this please share with the rest of us what symptoms you see?

Thanks.

Hoping for an update soon on this sick horse.


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## Tami (Oct 5, 2009)

I am so sorry to hear she is still not doing well. My mare that we lost 3 weeks ago...her blood was black too. My vet still doesn't know why.....


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## rockin r (Oct 5, 2009)

Joanne said:


> This is my first time hearing about hypocalcemic.
> Could someone familiar with this please share with the rest of us what symptoms you see?
> 
> Thanks.
> ...


It is on the original post......Her prognosis is very poor.............................They are checking for blister beetles, but vet said that she should have blisters in her mouth and on her tounge for as advanced as her condition is...We are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo very careful with our hay. We NEVER throw a solid pad to them, we always break it apart and shake it lose so we can look for????? Is it possible, yes that we miss them. BUT>>>> we feed the same hay to all our horses, no one else is off.... I am pretty sure it is her calcium levels. I swear I did not notice anything different (off) with her last night. I have gone over it a hundred million times in my head. She was fine last night, and to be critical/life threatening in less than 18 hours, I MUST have missed something last night. OH GOD THE PHONE IS RINGING...not the vet...I hate it when they are not home, and they are sick!!!!!!! Thanks for your prayers, we all know it is powerful medicine!


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## Tami (Oct 5, 2009)

Don't beat yourself up.... This is the exact same thing that happened to me. My mare was fine at the pm feeding...came running for food. Nothing at all would give the impression that less than 24 hours later she would be dead. She was not off at all. We tested our hay, our water....everything was fine. Her calcium was down and her phosphorus was very high. The first thing my vet did was IV calcium and she was better for a bit.


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## cretahillsgal (Oct 5, 2009)

I've been thinking about you and Lady all afternoon. I will continue to pray that she improves. I am glad that you stood your ground and made the vet test Lady.

Hypocalcemia is not something to mess with. It is crazy how fast it comes on. Now I am so paranoid about it that I check all my horses daily for any signs.

My vet said that she has seen it in cattle alot. One time some cows were moved to a different pasture of irrigated bermuda. And within 24 hours the owner called her with a cow down. By the time she got there the first cow was gone and 2 more were down. And as she was working on them 2 more cows went down in the pasture. She said it was unreal and they ended up losing 3 of the cows before they got them sabilized and the rest of the herd moved. At first they thought that maybe something toxic was in the field, but after checking the cow's bloodwork they were extremely hypocalcemic. She thinks that the water used to irrigate the pasture was leaching the calcium in the soil causing the bermuda to me insufficient in calcium. So now the owner just had to be sure to provide a loose mineral supplement to any cattle he pastures there. I also believe that this is what was wrong with my mare that developed hypocalcemia. Poor hay.


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## rockin r (Oct 5, 2009)

Joanne said:


> This is my first time hearing about hypocalcemic.
> Could someone familiar with this please share with the rest of us what symptoms you see?
> 
> Thanks.
> ...


I am not familiar with this, I have just gotten a crash course on it. It is a very real possibility we will lose her. Lady bug was fine last nite. This am she looked like she had severe hiccups in her flanks. Back legs (although one was worst than the other) were splayed like she had to urinate and were stiff. She appeared to be in no pain. By 2 pm she was getting worse. By 230 she was stiff in both back legs, stumbling and dragging her back toes. She seemed to be confused somewhat. Never broke into a sweat. Vet said her blood was black from lack of oxygen in the blood. They hiccup with their heart rythem(sp). I Don't know why. She had absolutely no signs of anything. All my horses are feed and watered in their stalls so we know when there are warning signs, no guessing on how much they have or have not eaten. Ladybug did not eat any of her feed or hay last night, but she did drink her NORMAL amount of water, yet she was severly dehydrated. After 1 1/2 of the big bags of IV she finally urinated alot 2x. and poo'd, not alot but it was moist and of normal color. I just can't figure out how I missed something. And how she became difficient in Calcium so quickly...I am doing ALOT of googling on this to educate myself, unfortunately, after the fact....Stay with me Ladybug, Sweet Dreams...I'll be there before the vet opens in the morning...


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## Gini (Oct 5, 2009)

Prayers coming for Lady!










Bless you for insisting on the bloodwork many vets do not listen to us. I know mine sometimes does not. Prayers for you and Art coming as well.....

Gini


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## REO (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm sick at heart for you. I KNOW how much you love her. And I know that some of the vets around here you have to FORCE them to listen (boy do I)

Our mare Girly was FINE then all of a sudden was "off". We ran her to the vet and he said it was west nile. I called him that night crying and begging him to come because she was dying and suffering and he told me she wasn't. She died 2 hours after I called him. 17 hours after the 1st sign of anything wrong, til she was dead. I don't think it was west nile. Too sudden.

GOOD for you for making him listen!

PRAYERS for Lady


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 5, 2009)

Definitely sending prayers for Lady. Please keep us updated.


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## Riverdance (Oct 5, 2009)

There was a farm at the World Show from Oklahoma who had fed their horses alfalfa hay from their area. They had blister beetle, so far they have lost 2 and 3 are still at the vets. It seems to be pretty nasty and usually kills a horse within 24 houesa, though one of theirs hung on for 3 days before they had to put him down.

According to the vet there, if it was straight hay there would not have been a problem, it is when they try and feed alfalfa from Texas, Oklahoma or Missouri.

I hope it is not blister beetle.


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## rockin r (Oct 5, 2009)

REO said:


> I'm sick at heart for you. I KNOW how much you love her. And I know that some of the vets around here you have to FORCE them to listen (boy do I) Our mare Girly was FINE then all of a sudden was "off". We ran her to the vet and he said it was west nile. I called him that night crying and begging him to come because she was dying and suffering and he told me she wasn't. She died 2 hours after I called him. 17 hours after the 1st sign of anything wrong, til she was dead. I don't think it was west nile. Too sudden.
> 
> GOOD for you for making him listen!
> 
> PRAYERS for Lady


{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS MY FRIEND}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


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## Allure Ranch (Oct 5, 2009)

_[SIZE=12pt]My prayers are with you that your mare makes it through this..... _[/SIZE]

I had a mare last year that developed hypercalemia and she managed to survive it. However, her recovery took about 3 weeks.

Our mare "Glory" was perfectly healthy the day prior to being diagnosed. The following day I noticed that she wasn't feeling very well in the morning and assumed that she possibly had gas colic from the alfalfa since it was so green and leafy. NO..... Within an 8 hour period she dropped to the ground and could walk along with having sever muscle contractions. We rushed her to the vet where they determined her condition.

Our mare actually had a foal on her side "Guardian" that we had to remove from her immediately that night at 3 months of age since she was in critical condition. She managed to make it through even with everything that she went through produced another colt for us this season.


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## Becky (Oct 5, 2009)

This article is straight from the Merck Veterinary Manual. Cantharidin Poisoning (Blister Beetles)

The description of your mares' symptoms very much sound like this to me.


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Oct 5, 2009)

I had a feeling that's what it was when I read your original post.. Exact same symptoms our girl Lexi showed last year, profuse sweating, lethargic, head hung low, heavy breathing, looked and felt like her heart was beating at every part of her body etc. We rushed her to the vets as we thought she had colicked (though no signs of rolling, no stomach biting etc).. Vets checked her over, not colic, decided to run bloodwork thinking she had ingested a toxin, and that's how we found her calcium levels dangerously low.. Gave her shot of Calcium and it seemed to help for a short period of time.. Had us take her 3 month old colt home and leave her over night so they could continue monitoring her and IV calcium into her.. Got a call the next morning that she was getting worse and that we needed to run her down to the University Hospital.. When we got there she was down, could barely hold herself upright or hold up her head, very shallow breathing and she had started to head press the night before, had rubbed hair off her forehead.. Looking back I should have followed my gut and had her put down there, but I just couldn't get those words out and my dad wanted to give her every shot possible and we opted to rush her down to the University, unfortunately we lost her in-route



We had an autopsy performed as we were told originally that a nursing foal could not have pulled her Calcium level down as far as hers was, but everything else came back clean/clear and COD was ruled as hypocalcemia due to lactation...

Every loss is horrible, but this one was extremely bad, it happened soo fast with no warning

I'm praying extra hard for you and your gal..



(((HUGS)))


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## thegrandzapper (Oct 6, 2009)

velma


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## madmax (Oct 6, 2009)

I am so very sorry to read this, it is heartwrenching.

Please everyone, keep a supply of CALCIUM PHOSPHATE in your horse supplies.

I had a newly weaned colt develop "thumps", it was thumping in rhythm with his heartbeat, so scary. Fortunately I caught it quickly after it started, called the vet, and because I had this on hand, was able to give him a dose (orally, in a syringe with water). I was lucky, he recovered.

Unfortunately, we cannot predict everything that could possibly happen with our horses, but having this on hand could give you another weapon in case you need it.

Again, I am so sorry to read this about Lady.


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## wingnut (Oct 6, 2009)

:::::sob:::::: I'm so sorry that you are all going through this. Many prayers and positive thoughts coming your way.


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## luv2ridesaddleseat (Oct 6, 2009)

Threresa, I'm praying she made it through the night.....


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## cretahillsgal (Oct 6, 2009)

Becky,

That does sound like what Lady has. Which would mean that the low calcium levels are a symptom. Scary because Theresa lives so close to me.

We see blister beetles all the time around here. But my alfalfa is from a 1st cutting so hopefully it is beetle-free.

Theresa - We are still thinking about you and praying for Lady.


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## Minimor (Oct 6, 2009)

We had a mare with hypocalcemia several years ago. She was heavy in foal and initially I thought she was going into labor. She wasn't eating, appeared to be having mild contractions. I watched her some, & decided it wasn't labor, but didn't know what it was. Called the vet clinic--vet on call said to keep an eye on her. She stayed the same that night and by early the next morning she was obviously worse--she had thumps (called thumps I think because of the noise made when the diaphragm contracts--it's a very loud hiccup that sounds like a THUMP) and was having muscle twitches through her jaw and sides. She wouldn't/couldn't eat--her jaw was clenched tightly--she could walk but was reluctant to do so. I called the vet back & told him this was serious. He sent another vet out--she lived closer so could be here sooner. She came out, checked the mare, asked if she'd had a tetanus vaccine (she had) and so ruled out tetanus and said it had to be calcium deficiency. She'd never seen it in a horse but was very familiar with it in dairy cattle. She didn't even do a blood test, she was that sure of what the problem was. She had to go back to the clinic to get IV calcium but was back in less than an hour. She prepared two 20cc syringes of calcium & put the first one in, then started the second one. By the time half of that was run in the muscle tremors had stopped and the mare's eyes had brightened. she did not relapse and delivered a healthy filly 2 weeks later.

Hypocalcemia can kill in 48 hours or less--it is vital that the early signs not be missed. A horse out on pasture may well be sick for several hours before anyone notices, because she may stand or wander around with the other horses without anyone noticing that she isn't eating or moving right. Early signs maybe mistaken for colic. Some horses get sicker faster, so the early warning signs last for less time & are more likely to be missed-- A horse could be fine at evening feed and deathly ill by morning--which sounds like the case with your mare Theresa.

Muscles require calcium to work properly which will be why your mare is so splayed and stiff on her hind legs. As the heart is also a muscle, lack of calcium affects the heart--it will not be pumping properly, which accounts for the black blood and lack of oxygen--heart failure, according to my vet, is the cause of death in hypocalcemia. (Just an FYI for those not familiar with the condition and its effects)

If a horse was this sick from blister beetle poisoning I'm quite sure that there would be blisters/burns in the horse's mouth. As a side note to blister beetle poisoning...it isn't just hay from the 3 states listed above in an earlier post that can be a problem. I think that it's more common in hay from the southern states, but blister beetles have moved further north. We have them here but not in great numbers. There hasn't been a problem with alfalfa hay right around here (that I've heard of) but a couple years ago someone further north of here lost a couple horses--vet diagnosed cause of death as blister beetle poisoning, and the guy had been feeding his horses on locally grown alfalfa hay. There have also been occasional blister beetle poisonings in horses in various places in the northern US--on hay grown locally in those areas.


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## shelly (Oct 6, 2009)

ray



ray



ray



ray



ray



ray {{{{HUGS}}}} for you all too!


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## Carolyn R (Oct 6, 2009)

I am so sorry to hear about the issues your mare is having. Sending, yet another, prayer your way.

This is a total shot in the dark.....

If this can possibly be triggered by toxins in the system(endotoxin induced changes and disturbances in the small intestines are two causes for this), or in combination with organ failure, could it be from onion grass, red maple leaves, cherry leaves, walnut leaves .....anything that may be shedding its foilage and blowing into the turnout, or even as Minimor had listed in a previous post, creosote in posts? All of these things can cause liver failure/damage, and throw all of the bodies functions and blood levels into a spiral.

I know at this point, no matter what the cause, you just want her to get better, and I pray she does.


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## Just Us N Texas (Oct 6, 2009)

Many years ago we had a quarter mare that went down with what appeared to be colic. Called the vet, he came out, said it was worms. (He had just tubed her the week before.) I yelled at him about this, told him couldn't he remember tubing her, and he said she probably had so many worms they clogged her up. Stupid vet! The mare had a nine or ten day old foal on her side. He would treat the mare, and she would get better, then start all over again. This went on for three days. Finally, the mare was down, and so sick, her foal was stealing from her when he could reach her bag. The vet told my husband that he was going to give her a shot that would kill her or cure her. Said this was only used for cattle. My husband asked him what it was and he said "Calcium". We told him to go ahead as she was down and couldn't get up. He gave her the shot, and she started improving almost immediately. After a few days, she was recovered, (more visits from the vet), and went on to raise that little foal we thought was going to be an orphan. This vet was a friend of my husband's, and they had gone through grade and high school together. He was a small animal vet that wanted to get more into large animals. Needless to say, he did not ever treat any more of our large animals. He did come through in the end, but my gosh the suffering he let that mare, and us go through, before he tried the "cow shot." He never did any blood work either.

Here's hoping your mare will recover as quickly and as well as she.


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## kayla221444 (Oct 6, 2009)

Same thing happen to our stallion last year around this time, it was liver failure and it also happend SO FAST it was scary...I am praying for your little girl!


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## ClickMini (Oct 6, 2009)

Theresa, I am so glad you got your mare the calcium and hopefully on time. It is a shame when a vet is not fully educated on these minis, they definitely have their own unique problems, don't they? Or things that are rare in big horses are far more common in our minis.

If you are googling for further information, the veterinary term for thumps is "synchronous diaphragmatic flutter." That means that her muscles are "in synch" with her heart beat when they spasm.

My heart is with you. I spent a lot of money and time getting my mare well. She had a bad dystocia, and her foal died at 4 days old while still in the ICU. I brought Ally home but she was not well and I took her back. I was sitting with her in the vet stall when she started the thumps. They got calcium into her right away. We are so lucky to have a very advanced veterinary referral hospital 15 minutes from our home. They really seem to be on top of these things. It makes me feel sad when I read messages from those of you who do not have access to this level of care and knowledge. Of course that all comes with its own price, and I know that between myself and my local friends, we ensure the financial well-being of that hospital!

Sending hugs for you and healing thoughts for Ladybug.


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## rockin r (Oct 6, 2009)

Update 4 added to original post page Theresa


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## cretahillsgal (Oct 6, 2009)

Thats wonderful Theresa! YAY!!!

The paste that I had to give my mare was called CMPK paste. And I had to give about a 2" ribbon of it. It was a big tube so I just squirted the correct amount into a smaller syringe and gave it to her that way.

Here is the one I used. http://www.sheepman.com/ecommerce/ecomm_pr...at&catid=59

It is good because it not only has the calcium, but also the phos and magnesium that they need to help regulate their system.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 6, 2009)

Great news on the update Theresa. Keeping fingers and toes crossed that she continues to improve and can be home with you and Art soon.


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## Allure Ranch (Oct 6, 2009)

_[SIZE=12pt]I'm so happy for you that "Lady" is feeling a bit better today and I hope she continues to improve in her recovery process.... [/SIZE]_


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## weerunner (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow, I'm going to be checking at my local supply store to see if I can get some of that paste. I've got three babies due next year, and I want to be as prepared as I can be. You just never know.

I'm so glad your Lady bug is better. One of my pregnant mare is also named Ladybug. (Little Ladybug-AMHA registered).


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## luv2ridesaddleseat (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm ESTATIC she is doing better!! I think she's going to beat this!!!! Keep the forum prayers going!!!


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## ChrystalPaths (Oct 6, 2009)

You are an amazing woman, and I glad things improve for your sweet Lady, sending my prayers and light for her as well.


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## Sandee (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is getting better. Also happy that you posted this. It's an eye opener. Sometimes we learn from mistakes but it so much better to learn before one is made. I'm still reeling from a vet that had to be forced to do a blood test.


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## HGFarm (Oct 6, 2009)

Oh my gosh, I am SO GLAD you INSISTED on the vet doing that!!!!! You saved her life by making them do it! I am thrilled to hear that she is improving!!!!

I have never had or seen a horse with a calcium deficiency.... does anyone know how they get it or why? Do most feed stores carry the paste? How would you know they have a problem until they end up sick like this?! This is really scary!

I hope she continues to improve and bet she will be back to her normal self soon!! I sure hope so- you dont need more drama!!! Give her a hug and another cookie!


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## rcfarm (Oct 6, 2009)

So glad Lady is doing better. This something I have never seen or heard of. Do you give supplement to combat this?

Prayers for you and Lady.

Carol


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## REO (Oct 6, 2009)

[SIZE=24pt]*THANK GOD!*[/SIZE]


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## Barbie (Oct 6, 2009)

Prayers for Lady that she continues to improve and is back home with you and Art. She is one lucky "Lady" to have you.

Barbie


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## Maxi'sMinis (Oct 6, 2009)

Sending prayers for LadyBugs continued healing. Poor girl. I had a Samoyed that had this after having puppies, I almost lost her but got her to the vet quickly like you and she was saved. It was amazing how fast she came back after getting IV calcium. My heart breaks for you Theresa that you are continued to be challlenged in this way. Your resolve is really getting a work out. I will say prayers to keep you strong and determined.

God Bless dear heart.


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## luv2ridesaddleseat (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm still PRAYING LIKE CRAZY!!!!!!!!! Waiting for another update!!!!!!


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## rockin r (Oct 6, 2009)

Update 5 on original post on first page...Theresa


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## Katiean (Oct 6, 2009)

I am so glad she is home. even after they are supposed to be better you still worry about them. I know I did when one of my mares coliced. I would watch out the door when I was at the computer. In building a shelter extention this year I won't put a south wall on it because I can not see my horses then. Everyone says I am crazy.


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## luv2ridesaddleseat (Oct 7, 2009)

YIPPEE!!!!! You are such a great horse Mommy Theresa!! Prayers she gets all better quickly!!!!


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## shorthorsemom (Oct 7, 2009)

Wow, just read this whole post.. scarey. We have a dairy farm and we always have to watch our girls for calcium deficiency. Didn't know that horses could get it until this post. In cows they can practically drop like a rock and you don't have much time before they go too far. Very common in color breeds like Jerseys and Brown Swiss. When our cows get to the point of thumping or turning the head to the side we cannot give the oral paste but must go IV. If you do go IV it must be VERY slow infusion and you have to watch and back off if their heart rate goes way up or they look stressed. We started giving precautionary Calcium paste before and after delivery of the calves and on our more high risk animals as preventative. Didn't hurt, but reduced our calcium deficient cows tremendously. Best wishes, calcium defiency is scarey to watch.




PS, I never heard of blister beatles, will have to read up on that one.


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## Margo_C-T (Oct 7, 2009)

I have not posted before, but have been keeping up with this thread, and want to say how happy I am for you guys and your dear mare that things are on the upswing! May everything continue to improve; my warmest thoughts and good wishes are with you all!

I had not really known of this condition; this has been yet another 'eduational for the horse owner' experience, and I thank you, Theresa, and all who've had helpful input on this thread. I no longer breed, but information like this is ALWAYS helpful to know! And I agree, this information should be 'saved' for future access and reference!

My best wishes,

Margo


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## shelly (Oct 7, 2009)

Thank goodness she made it thru this and came home!!!!! WHOO HOO-good for you LADY BUG!!!!



:yeah Continuing to pray she stays well!






ray



ray


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## madmax (Oct 7, 2009)

This is a follow-up to my post on keeping Calcium Phosphate in your horse supplies.

When I first bought it, and kept it on hand, it was manufactured by Horse Health, came in a 4 lb. tub in powdered form. I would dilute in water and use a syringe, orally.

I don't know if it is available from them now.

However, the gel sounds like an improvement. It can be bought from Jeffers in the dairy section, Also from Jeffers Pet, there is a powdered form in a quantity that could be used to keep around for an emergency supply and inexpensive as well.


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## Hosscrazy (Oct 7, 2009)

Theresa - I am just so glad your little one made it through...I applaud all of your efforts to save her...give her a big hug for me, please.

Liz R.


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## little lady (Oct 7, 2009)

What wonderful news.



I have learned so much with thsi thread. Being new to miniatures I had never heard of what Lady Bug was dealing with before. I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers for a continued recovery.


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## rockin r (Oct 7, 2009)

Lady is getting better! Her thumping in her flanks, you can not see with the eye, but you can feel it with your hand. She ate all her diner last night and was munching on breakfast this am. I do beleive that she will be okay. Pooing and peeing everywhere! That's my Girl! She HATES the Calcium Gel. I am getting her some yoguart (vanilla) to mix it up with...This is Lady....for thoses of you who have not met her yet..


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## Sandy B (Oct 7, 2009)

rockin r said:


> Lady is getting better! Her thumping in her flanks, you can not see with the eye, but you can feel it with your hand. She ate all her diner last night and was munching on breakfast this am. I do beleive that she will be okay. Pooing and peeing everywhere! That's my Girl! She HATES the Calcium Gel. I am getting her some yoguart (vanilla) to mix it up with...This is Lady....for thoses of you who have not met her yet..



Thank you so much for allowing us to share your journey. Being new to minis I had just read about this problem and now through your experience will be prepared. Lady is beautiful and she has wonderful 'parents' who went all out to save her.

I do have a question though. How much of a dose of calcium should you give a mini if you suspect the calcium deficiency? Is it a "you can't give them enough to harm them" dosage if you see them displaying signs of this?


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## Equuisize (Oct 7, 2009)

Theresa and Art, you guys meet every challenge with every ounce of your being.

Lady is one lucky girl to have had you in her corner fighting for what you knew

was right.

What a great group of people this is for instantly responding to her plea for

help. Without it, Lady might not be happily munching away.


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## rockin r (Oct 7, 2009)

The best group of family Art and I know! Truely. if we had not gotten immediate responses we would have lost Lady......Lady gets 3cc of the gel everynight, with Probios 1/2 hour before...


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## HGFarm (Oct 7, 2009)

What a lovely girl she is!!!! I think she will keep improving! Yes, if I was a horse, I would want to be owned by you guys!!


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## barnbum (Oct 7, 2009)

What a story. What a beautiful mare. So glad the ending was a happy one.


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## Joanne (Oct 8, 2009)

Thank you all. I had never heard of this before and you bet I am now so much more informed about calcium deficiency.

Thanks for sharing your story. We all learned from it.


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## ChrystalPaths (Oct 8, 2009)

gorgeous Lady, sending my best for her


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