# Training problem



## Celtic Hill Farm (Mar 4, 2009)

Ok, so Aura is doing great and is ready to be hitched...but leia on the other hand...




. were having issues. She don't listen to the bit, she puts he head down and takes off and goes where she wants. Im currently working her in a Driving bridle with a liver pool, with the reins on the Second mildest slot. the only reason why i use a Liverpool is because it has the port, which eliminated the toung over the bit problem. Any ideas on what i can do with her? should i bring my check up tighter?


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## disneyhorse (Mar 4, 2009)

This should probably go to the donkey forum (they are donkeys, right?)

Donkeys are a LOT different to train than horses, and advice for horses might not work the same way as advice for donkeys.

Sounds like she needs some ground manner lessons, and maybe a less mild bit. Probably just more time, too. If you aren't patient with donkeys you can really screw them up!

Good luck,

Andrea


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## MiLo Minis (Mar 4, 2009)

Celtic Hill Farm said:


> Ok, so Aura is doing great and is ready to be hitched...but leia on the other hand...
> 
> 
> 
> . were having issues. She don't listen to the bit, she puts he head down and takes off and goes where she wants. Im currently working her in a Driving bridle with a liver pool, with the reins on the Second mildest slot. the only reason why i use a Liverpool is because it has the port, which eliminated the toung over the bit problem. Any ideas on what i can do with her? should i bring my check up tighter?


That in itself is NOT a good reason to use a Liverpool, especially on any slot rather than the cheek ring. Snaffle bits come with ports. Horses move into pressure and you are creating a great deal of pressure with that bit. Is there anyone with knowledge in your area that you could have help you?


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 4, 2009)

Using a tight check in conjunction with a curb bit on the second or last slot is bordering on cruelty. Have you ever read Black Beauty? The check removes the animal's ability to give to the bit and traps the horse against the intense jaw pressure a leverage arrangement can bring to bear. Horses have broken their jaws that way!

So no, I wouldn't tighten the check as a solution.





What I _would_ do is get the reins back on the snaffle or ring setting since you're using the Liverpool for the mouthpiece, not the curb action. It sounds like she's doing that donkey "move into pain/pressure" thing and the best thing to do is remove the pressure so she can relax and learn. This is the donkey you've had all the trouble with, right? I hate to say it but you may have to consider that she simply isn't happy driving and focus on Aura instead. Human or animal, it's no fun being forced to do something you don't enjoy!





Good luck Ian.

Leia


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Mar 4, 2009)

What i mean it has minimal leverage...it's not on the should i say "Snaffle" part but one down. https://id505.securepod.com/ponyandcarriage...20liverpool.jpg i have on the slot right below the mouth pice with a lose curb...i don't mean lose, but not tight.

lol, Leia can put her head in between her legs with the check on now. i was asking if tightening it would be beneficial. My trainer told me that the Checks make it so that the horse/donkey isn't able to drop there head and take off...well that's what she's doing. I had it with her. I havn't lost my temper with her in over 6 months and i always end on a good note. But its so frustrating, and idk where to turn. Or what to do. Aura is basically being ground driving around, but i need a cart, and i'm waiting to hear back from the people that i want to buy one from.


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## MeadowRidge Farm (Mar 5, 2009)

Get rid of THAT liverpool, and the check. If your only doing ground driving there is no reason you cant do it in a mild snaffle IF she is being trained properly. Are you working her in a round pen? You seem like you are really pushing your animals alot to get them to do what you want. Its not going to happen overnight, they need training, especially donkeys. She needs to be at the point where she can relax and feel comfortable of doing what is being asked of her to do, not pushed and restrained. As fast as you seem to be going, with the jumping, harnessing, and driving, if you keep pushing these animals you are going to end up with not only unhappy donkeys but not well trained driving donkeys either. If this were me, I would restart her acting like she knew nothing, working not only on manners but groundwork as well, I also dont put a bit in there mouths right away, my donkeys and horses can be ground driven with the very light pressure on the reins with just having them hooked into the side of the halter, before I start them in a bit. It makes it so much eaiser and your animals will feel so much more relaxed and know what is being asked of them to do. It sounds like she is fighting you because you are fighting her, which will end up in a no win situation. Is there any good donkey trainers in your area you can talk to....ones that understand donkeys, not horses.


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## Celtic Hill Farm (Mar 5, 2009)

I have done some round pen work. But i it did nothing, If i use a snaffle she puts her tong up over the bit. Like i said, the Liverpool has very little leverage with her. Very little. The only reason why im using a check is so she doesn't put her head down and take off...wich seems to be doing nothing. I used to drive her with nothing but a halter, but it caused rubbs on her nose so my mom mad me stop. what really ends up happening is she is like "I'm going to the left and that's where I'm going" and i'm like "You are turning Right," then she puts up a fight. Drops her head, and put all her weight onto the bit to go forward. Naturally i try and stop her or turn her so she isn't getting away with she wants. So she learns that I'm the one in control. That's what i have always been told to do, weather im riding Dressage, Jumpers, Driving, Western, Saddle seat. You are the one in control. I don't relie on my rein cues, i also use my whip and voice cues too. "Gee" for left, "Ha" for right. and if i want to turn left, and i need a little extra reinforcement, i take my whip and tapp her on her Right side, simulating where my leg would be if I'm riding her.


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## jleonard (Mar 5, 2009)

Have you tried a cavesson with the snaffle bit to keep her from being able to open her mouth and get her tounge over the bit? It may help with your steering as well. It may be something to try. I have very little experience with donkeys, so I'm not much help. However, I do know that you cannot tell a donkey to do anything, they are so different from horses



My friend has a mini donk they decided to ground drive one day. They tried and tried to get him to turn and when he had had enough, he simply laid down and refused to get back up! (He never did lear to drive, it was not meant to be). He stayed w/ us for a couple of months, and the more I tried to "be the boss" and make him do what I wanted, the more he protested. We had to find a compromise we could both work with, neither of us could be in charge and I had to make him think that whatever I wanted him to do was his idea. They really are tricky creatures to figure out!


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