# What's wrong with this picture?



## hobbyhorse23 (Jun 22, 2011)

Educational opportunity, folks. This is a photo used in advertising a product (the harness) on a large western company's website. How many things can you identify that are incorrect in this photo? The harness itself isn't actually that bad, but the hitching is attrocious!





Leia


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## New mini (Jun 22, 2011)

WOW Even as someone who is just learning I can see so many things wrong. I do love these pictures because I can test my knowledge but sure hope they did not try to drive that horse.


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## Performancemini (Jun 22, 2011)

Shafts WAY too high!



Shaft loops too short of course.



Traces too long.



Britching not connected



.Overcheck may be too long



. Wrap(?) straps not done up or done incorrectly



. What else did I miss? (as if that is not enough!).


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## Marsha Cassada (Jun 22, 2011)

New mini said:


> WOW Even as someone who is just learning I can see so many things wrong. I do love these pictures because I can test my knowledge but sure hope they did not try to drive that horse.


I doubt they were going to drive him. See the halter and lead rope? Poor guy!


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## Carriage (Jun 22, 2011)

Glad to see that the little guy is in blinders with this set up....

Other than that, "Whats wrong with this picture" is that the poor critter is in the wrong rig.....



Although,after viewing this set-up, I would decline the opportunity.

Bb


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jun 22, 2011)

Carriage said:


> Glad to see that the little guy is in blinders with this set up....


LOL, I'd hide my eyes too if I had to have my picture taken wearing that.

OK here is my response to the original question;

--Lead rope.... if it MUST be there at all (I would have removed it and carried it on the cart if I wanted one) should not be hanging so loose. All it takes is one small rear or for the horse to strike at something and his leg is over the rope (shouldn't of course do either but horses do things we don't expect all the time)

--Can't really say about headstall fit but the overcheck is definitely too loose. Not so much a safety issue as a tidiness thing.

--Breast strap looks to be hung too high but it may just need to be positioned better.

--Shaft loops are too high thus the shafts are too high as well (can just imagine the joy of riding in that cart with the seat tipped at the angle it must be lol)

--It would be nice if the overgirth was actually over the girth

--Back strap is to long/loose

--Britchen is not attached to the cart and needs to be raised to the meatiest part of the haunches.

--Cart is too close to the horse, needs to be shifted back far enough to bring the traces into use. Doing so might allow the breast strap to sit properly on the horses chest and would definitely move the cart shafts back so the weren't past the horses shoulder.

I can tell you that as new as I am to the world of driving I would not ever consider buying a harness from a company that looks to not know how to hitch a horse.

Thanks for the educational moment Is there anything that you see that the rest of us didn't?


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## Jennywashere (Jun 22, 2011)

Thank god for blinders so he doesn't poke himself in the eye with the shaft. I've see this horse modeling other harnesses too oh the purple nylon one makes it easy to see everything.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jun 23, 2011)

Good job, guys! You've picked out the worst things right away.



I'm assuming that halter and lead are on there just for taking the picture so I don't take too much issue with that.



Performancemini said:


> Overcheck may be too long
> 
> 
> 
> .





Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> --Can't really say about headstall fit but the overcheck is definitely too loose. Not so much a safety issue as a tidiness thing.


It surprises me that several of you said the overcheck was too long. First of all, if you look at the front of the face there _is_ no overcheck



, so I'm assuming it's a sidecheck, and secondly, in my opinion it's barely long _enough_.



Remember that the horse has his head turned towards the camera so it appears looser than it really is, and I think there's just enough slack that when that horse attempts to round up and actually go on the bit he will be able to. This would be a good length of sidecheck for preventing grazing but not interfering with the horse's natural carriage. Given that this is a carriage-style harness rather than a show harness it really shouldn't have a check at all- especially an odd one that seems to only go to the crown!



(I don't see sidecheck rings either.)



hobbyhorse23 said:


>





Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> --Breast strap looks to be hung too high but it may just need to be positioned better.
> 
> --Back strap is to long/loose


The breastcollar, IMO, is actually hung a bit too low. What makes it look so poor is that the weight of the trace buckle is too far behind the supporting straps and thus will tend to sag when the horse isn't actually pulling. That's a fault of the construction, not the fit, but I'd still adjust at least the rear neckstrap fairly high to try and correct it. Be sure when you're looking at buying harness that the supportive straps are attached in the best location to carry the weight! So many times the hipstrap is all the way up by the breeching ring so the rear dips down off the meaty part of the haunch and you can see here what happens when the neck straps are too far forward. The front of the breastcollar currently rests correctly at the junction of the windpipe and the chest but will probably come down a bit when the rear of the strap pivots up under draught, making it too low overall.

The backstrap to me appears more stiff and new than too long, although it does look like the crupper may have rotated a bit which would indicate it could be a bit tighter. When breeching is used the backstrap can be merely snug, not tight as it must be when the horse is braking with the saddle. I'd probably bring it up a hole to take up the slack but that's about it.



hobbyhorse23 said:


> Thanks for the educational moment Is there anything that you see that the rest of us didn't?


You guys covered most of it.



The saddle appears too far forward although some of that could be his pinto markings and roached mane combining for a visual illusion, but if it really is then it will push on his withers and the overgirth could interfer with the horse's elbows in motion. The backstrap will need to be shortened when the saddle is set further back but isn't too bad right now. The hipstrap is okay but could be a little bit further back. The breeching needs to be raised but appears to be the correct length, however as others have noted it won't do any good when it's not attached to the shafts.



I think when the shafts are dropped level you'd find the slack in the traces would be taken up and would fit just about right at the point of the shoulder. The shaft tiedowns appear to be an overgirth arrangement rather than wrap straps (which is fine) but it should have more keepers to keep the billet in line with the tug straps and will be WAY too long once you've let out the tugs. I'm not even sure what the thing dangling off the footman's loops _is_! It doesn't appear to be attached to anything.



The bridle appears quite nice and is correctly adjusted.



Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> I can tell you that as new as I am to the world of driving I would not ever consider buying a harness from a company that looks to not know how to hitch a horse.


I'm with you on that. The Amish guy who makes the harness might very well make a fine product, in fact it looks like he does for the price, but why should I trust a company to send me the right size parts and assist me with their product when it's obvious they don't have a clue about harness? There's one mini company I love that always has at least one product turned upside down or fitted in a dangerous fashion in their catalogue and it always makes me groan.






The shots of Lancelot hitched and driving in the "Mini School" book engender a similar reaction. She does a fabulous job of training him in long-lines, but clearly is not familiar with driving!

Leia


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## New mini (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for the lesson in the harness. I know most of what you are saying but still learned some things. I have one question. I tack up with about the same type harness but I see what I will say is a ring just after the saddle. Can someone tell me what this is?

Thanks


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jun 23, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Good job, guys! You've picked out the worst things right away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Newmini, if you are looking at the 'ring' on the shaft it is a 'footmans loop' (as Leia mentioned) and is used to attach the britchen to on most easy entry carts. Other than that the only ring I can think of is on the back of the saddle and is for fastening the backstrap to. Don't know if thats what you are referring to.


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## New mini (Jun 23, 2011)

No that is not what I was aking about. Maybe it is a buckle and not a loop. If you look down his side behind the saddle there is something by where his white is in back of the saddle and girth. Just seems to be in the wrong spot for a buckle or a loop


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## Field-of-Dreams (Jun 23, 2011)

> I'm not even sure what the thing dangling off the footman's loops _is_! It doesn't appear to be attached to anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know what I think it is? I believe they are the singletree straps: you know, goes on the cart to keep the singletree from moving too far if a trace comes undone. It looks to me like a brand new cart just put together for the pic.

It's a shame, because that does look like a rather well built harness just totally put on incorrectly- and on a horse too small for it!

We need to find out where the dealer is and offer to put it on a horse correctly and well fitted!


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## shorthorsemom (Jun 23, 2011)

I thought it looked like some sort of trace carrier attached to the footmans loop, Not where I have mine attached, but something looks to be dangling down from the footmans loop I thought on the photo it looked like a trace carrier.

Hey Leia, can you take a look at my posted photos of my boy in my aerocrown and see if you see anything interesting in my set up? Would appreciate your opinion. I don't have any closer photos, we are still tweeking the fit ever since I got my new cart. My boy gained weight on his 5 weeks off after the bad farrier trim and everything fit different for my lesson on saturday. Guess the adjusments never end...





.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jun 24, 2011)

Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> ...I consider it [the check] too long because it hangs off to one side and isn't tidy to look at that way.


The horse's comfort comes first, looks second.



Checks which are tight enough to have no slack when the head is raised like that allow no sort of comfort at all!



A trail horse should never be checked up that tight.



Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> If I'm not completely mistaken that strap is used to run the trace thro so it doesn't sag. It keeps the traces in line with the shaft and I have seen a number of people in our area use them. I can actually see the benefit on occasion, it does look neater and as long as they aren't interfering with the freedom of the traces to tighten or slacken I haven't seen anything to tell me they are a bad idea.





shorthorsemom said:


> I thought it looked like some sort of trace carrier attached to the footmans loop, Not where I have mine attached, but something looks to be dangling down from the footmans loop I thought on the photo it looked like a trace carrier.


A trace carrier loop would be a good idea, but if so they forgot to run the trace through it.



I have never seen an EE cart that _came_ with trace carrier loops as the show carts do so I'm assuming (not necessarily a good idea) that they added it themselves. You'd think if they knew enough to add a dog collar as a trace carrier they'd know enough to use it!







New mini said:


> No that is not what I was aking about. Maybe it is a buckle and not a loop. If you look down his side behind the saddle there is something by where his white is in back of the saddle and girth. Just seems to be in the wrong spot for a buckle or a loop


I believe that is the mystery part we are discussing. You are right that it shouldn't be there!



Field-of-Dreams said:


> You know what I think it is? I believe they are the singletree straps: you know, goes on the cart to keep the singletree from moving too far if a trace comes undone. It looks to me like a brand new cart just put together for the pic.


If so, they don't know how to put a cart together any better than a harness. *sigh*



Field-of-Dreams said:


> It's a shame, because that does look like a rather well built harness just totally put on incorrectly- and on a horse too small for it!
> We need to find out where the dealer is and offer to put it on a horse correctly and well fitted!


I know who the dealer is but was trying to keep this from being about a particular company.



I doubt they'd appreciate the help. Like we all said, the harness itself isn't even fitted that badly. It's the way the horse is hitched to the cart! Ah well. Hopefully this has been an educational thread.

Leia


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jun 24, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> The horse's comfort comes first, looks second.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you at all. A trail horse shouldn't need a check at all for the most part and if it is to be used to prevent those dives for grass, well at least leave it loose enough that the horse can use its neck for balance properly. Since in this picture it doesn't seem to be attached to anything it is a redundant strap and should not be included at all.

Regardless, thanks for the picture and the discussion.I enjoyed looking for the errors. Its such good practice to look for the details in a picture like that, helps to make spotting whats not quite right in my own harnessing/hitching easier.


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