# Questions on Patches pedigree



## kaykay (Oct 31, 2007)

Im hoping Lewella is around somewhere or maybe someone else can help. I cant find my rule book and I can never get the online one to work. We bred Patches to Black and I do think shes in foal. Will the foal only be able to register Modern? I cant remember how many generations back the hackney has to be? Here is her pedigree. Also if anyone knows these names Id love to hear about them. Im not nearly as familiar with these bloodlines although I have heard of them.

Thanks in advance

ASPC - 146832B STAR DREAMER'S CONFETTI

Sex: MARE Color: BAY & WHITE

Height: 46.00" Mane & Tail: BLACK & WHITE

Date Foaled: 05/12/1999 Markings (1): STAR, DISCONNECTED STRIP & SNIP;

Date Registered: 06/08/1999 Markings (2): ALL FOUR WHITE LEGS,

Current Owner: KAY BAXTER Markings (3): BLACK "DOTS" AT CORONET BAND ON ALL

Breeder: CLARENCE BATTEN OR MANDI S. WILSON Markings (4): FOUR LEGS;

Click on any registered animal to view it's details and pedigree.

32783 SNOOTY MC GEE

130242A M.A.M. SNOOTY'S BLACK ONYX

73129 CELEBRATION

134165B D.D. COMMANDER

111962 FERNWOOD DUKE HONEY

129264B DUKE HONEY BUN PRINCESS

HACKNEY: EDGEWOOD PRINCESS

95431A WAIT AND SEE STAR LITE (HOF)

132486A WAIT AND SEE'S CURIOUS GEORGE

129207A WAIT AND SEE'S BONNIE CINDY

142114B THE STAR OF INDIA WAH

129650B BEL-LANE'S FORT KNOX JR. (HOF)

135546B CARRIE'S MAGIC SAPPHIRE WAH 44.00"

130733B CLOUDINE'S CARRIE


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## Sharron (Oct 31, 2007)

Kay,

I am no authority by any means, but from the number of "B"'s in her pedigree...my guess is whatever she produces will be a "B". No matter what she is bred to, A or B.

Correct me if I am wrong Lewella.

Sharron


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## disneyhorse (Oct 31, 2007)

Division A Shetlands shall be the result of mating a Division A to a Division A with the exception as follows: a foal of Division B breeding that carries 12.5% (1/8) or less of non Division A Shetland blood will be eligible for registration in Division A.

That above, is from the rulebook.

The only pony I recognize I think is Bel-Lane Fort Knox Jr. here is a pic:







I think he's ADORABLE!

Anyway i hope any of that helps.

Andrea


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## kaykay (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks for the pic disney! Nice Pony! I know getitia has a MAM mare that i just go nuts over. And Ive heard of wait and see but never seen any of their horses.

Thanks Sharon the only one I could tell for sure was the one listed as Hackney.


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## ownedbyapony (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi Kay



,

I copied the remainder of the rule from the rulebook and have posted it.

Division A Shetlands shall be the result of mating a

Division A to a Division A with the exception as

follows: a foal of Division B breeding that carries

12.5% (1/8) or less non Division A Shetland blood will

be eligible for registration in Division A, i.e. one of the

great grandsires or great granddams may be Hackney

or Welsh, provided the remaining seven are Division A

or two of the great grandparents may be Division B

Shetland, Americana or Harness Show Pony, provided

the remaining six are Division A.

The resulting foal from a Patches x Back in Black cross will be eligible for an "A" designation. as there are no "Hackneys" in his great grand parent line and only 2 "B" papered ponies in the great grandparent line, both of course coming from patches. Black does not have a "B" in his background so you should be in good shape.

I hope this helps



!

Amber

PS Wait and See Pony farm is in Mankato, Minnesota and run by Stan Edwards who continued breeding ponies after his father died. They are still in ponies but are producing only hackneys at the present time.


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## kaykay (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi Amber!

Thanks so much!! That helps immensely! Since I mostly own class A ponies the B designation is still confusing to me after all these years LOL. Kyle had asked me and I told him I really had no idea what the foal would be registered as. How is that for an answer to your own son?





Until now we never had a stallion that could reach patches



so I never really thought about it.

Hey are you going to do another driving clinic at Lennies in the Spring? hoping you say yes


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## Leeana (Nov 1, 2007)

Kay,

Kitty is out of Buckeye WCF Bobcat Melody (Georgetowns Tom Cat *maybe a son of him, i dont remember lol X MAM Musics Miss Melody) so *Kittys dam is B papers * and showed as Modern Pleasure.

Kittys sire is Buckeye WCF Classical Magic who is foundation/amhr/aspc and is *A papered * so im not sure exactly if that helps any but Kitty is and will be A papered.

I think that is kind of the situation you have with patches and black if that helps any at all.


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## mendocinobackofbeyond (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi: It's basic 8th grade math (maybe 5th grade these days). The NUMBER of B's doesn't matter. It's the degree of B = 1/2 or 1/4 that determines whether or not the resulting offspring will be A or B. A 1/4 B bred to a straight A, will always produce an A, since the parents can only send one half of their genes. The straight A can send no B and the 1/4 B can only send 1/8 B genes, making the offspring an A. Once an animal has reached A (and I'm talking about legitimate A's), as long as you breed it to another A (legitimate), you can only get A and forget about the B in the background. Now if you breed that A with 1/8 in the background to a B...well, then you'd get a B. There's a contingent that goes around prattling something about "three B's in the background and it's a B". Not true. Depends on the degree of B. Ta, Shirlee


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## Lewella (Nov 1, 2007)

Exactly Shirlee! The math trumps the "number of B's" part in the rule book. 1/8 is 1/8 - the number of B's means nothing! It's all about the math.

Here's a map of the percentages in Patche's pedigree:

ASPC - 146832B STAR DREAMER'S CONFETTI

--------32783A SNOOTY MC GEE

----130242A M.A.M. SNOOTY'S BLACK ONYX

--------73129A CELEBRATION

--134165B D.D. COMMANDER *25% Hackney - foal inherits 12.5% (1/8) Hackney*

--------111962 FERNWOOD DUKE HONEY

----129264B DUKE HONEY BUN PRINCESS *50% Hackney*

--------HACKNEY: EDGEWOOD PRINCESS *100% Hackney*

--------95431A WAIT AND SEE STAR LITE (HOF)

----132486A WAIT AND SEE'S CURIOUS GEORGE

--------129207A WAIT AND SEE'S BONNIE CINDY

--142114B THE STAR OF INDIA WAH *25% Hackney - foal inherited 12.5% Hackney*

--------129650B BEL-LANE'S FORT KNOX JR. (HOF) *50% Hackney*

----135546B CARRIE'S MAGIC SAPPHIRE WAH 44.00" *50% Hackney (inherited 25% from both parents)*

--------130733B CLOUDINE'S CARRIE *50% Hackney*

This makes Patches 25% Hackney. Her foals will inherit 12.5% Hackney. If she is bred to a stallion with no B's anywhere in his pedigree she will produce A papered foals.


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## kaykay (Nov 1, 2007)

Thank you guys so much i really do appreciate you taking the time to explain it. I have to admit I am horrible at any kind of math especially fractions. I did have hubby look over how you guys did it and it makes perfect sense to him lol. My poor mind has just never been able to function that way.


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## disneyhorse (Nov 1, 2007)

Man... why did you guys have to go and bring MATH into something as fun as PONIES??? I still don't believe my teachers, trying to tell me MATH had some PRACTICAL use in LIFE...





Andrea


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## Leeana (Nov 1, 2007)

Lewella said:


> Exactly Shirlee! The math trumps the "number of B's" part in the rule book. 1/8 is 1/8 - the number of B's means nothing! It's all about the math.
> 
> Here's a map of the percentages in Patche's pedigree:
> 
> ...


I must have been sleeping during geometry class the day they taught us that


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## Lewella (Nov 3, 2007)

This was an easy one! I've figured out the math on a few that were much, much worse! LOL It gets really fun when you have one that comes out to 37.5, 18.75, etc. OH!


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