# Pinkie Update Monday



## Field-of-Dreams (Feb 28, 2011)

Her kidneys are failing. To continue to treat will be another $1000+- something I just don't have. I need to decide if we want to try and save her foal, who is almost due, or just let them both go.


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## dreaminmini (Feb 28, 2011)

Awww, so sorry to hear this.




You have tried so hard with her. I am still sending prayers.


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## a mini dream come true (Feb 28, 2011)

Bless your heart



. I am so sorry for all your heartache. And now still more tough decisions. My love and prayers are with you and your beloved fur babies.


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## Magic (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm SO sorry. How heartbreaking.


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## ClickMini (Feb 28, 2011)

How far along is the foal? If it is over 300 days, you have a pretty good chance.

I am SO SORRY to hear about your Pinkie. Stacy Score of Mountain Meadows had a situation like this, her mare came home and lived well for quite a while (almost a year?) with #'s that should have killed her, you might want to try to reach her and talk about it before making your decision. It could be that your mare can at least carry her foal to term, with support.

BIG HUGS to you!!! And prayers for your mare/foal!!!


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## Riverrose28 (Feb 28, 2011)

Oh No!



So sorry to hear this news, Is there some way you can take her home with medication? Or is it her condition too serious? My heart aches for you.


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## Knottymare (Feb 28, 2011)

Oh, tough tough decision. How far along?


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## heartkranch (Feb 28, 2011)

Try to save the foal. You've done so much already!

Im sorry


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## Field-of-Dreams (Feb 28, 2011)

Knottymare said:


> Oh, tough tough decision. How far along?


If she took on the first cover it's Day 324. If she took on the second one it's Day 299... unltrasound today still showed a fetal heartbeat.


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## drmatthewtaylor (Feb 28, 2011)

Certainly sad and problematic. You have my sympathies/I wish you and her good luck.

But do consider that failure does not equal complete shut down. Predicting the rate of deterioration can sometimes be a guess at best. One of my own mares developed kidney failure last year prior to foaling. She chugged along pretty well with some TLC (not $1000 in fluid therapy) and had the foal. She raised it pretty well for >30 days after which she was humanely euthanized. She was a good Mom and tried very hard.

I wouldn't begin to guess what your mare will do, just wanted to open your mind up to the possibilities.

Dr Taylor


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## Jill (Feb 28, 2011)

Thinking of you and praying for the best possible outcome!


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## targetsmom (Feb 28, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear this. Thinking of you and hoping for the best. Hugs to you and your mare.


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## Allure Ranch (Feb 28, 2011)

_You have my sympathies...._


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## Field-of-Dreams (Feb 28, 2011)

drmatthewtaylor said:


> Certainly sad and problematic. You have my sympathies/I wish you and her good luck.
> 
> But do consider that failure does not equal complete shut down. Predicting the rate of deterioration can sometimes be a guess at best. One of my own mares developed kidney failure last year prior to foaling. She chugged along pretty well with some TLC (not $1000 in fluid therapy) and had the foal. She raised it pretty well for >30 days after which she was humanely euthanized. She was a good Mom and tried very hard.
> 
> ...


Thank you. That helps a lot. I will just bring her home for as long as she has left. If she crashes we'll let her go. At this point I have nothing to lose.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm so sorry for the heartbreak you're going through. Please know our prayers are with you, Pinkie and the baby. Bring her home and give that little one every chance. Clearly he/she is a fighter!

Leia


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## drmatthewtaylor (Feb 28, 2011)

Field-of-Dreams said:


> Thank you. That helps a lot. I will just bring her home for as long as she has left. If she crashes we'll let her go. At this point I have nothing to lose.


'I pray that I may win the race, but if I cannot win, then I pray that I may be courageous in the attempt.'

The honor is in the battle and the attitude with which you approach it. Each day is a gift, enjoy the ones you have left. Don't forget, nobody told her.

Good Luck

Dr Taylor


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## Miniv (Feb 28, 2011)

Prayers are with you, Pinkie, and her foal.


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## Margo_C-T (Feb 28, 2011)

I have not posted before, but have been following this thread, hoping and praying for a good result for you and for your mare and her foal. This is very sad news; my heart and prayers are with you, the little mare, and her 'nearly-here' baby. Wonderful quote from Dr. Taylor; my warmest, most sincere good wishes for at least the kind of result he describes in his own situation for you and yours.

Margo


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm so sorry it has come to this. You've done so much already and whatever decision you make, I'm sure it will be the best for all concerned. Hugs to you and prayers for Pinkie, her baby and for strength for you.


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## chandab (Feb 28, 2011)

drmatthewtaylor said:


> 'I pray that I may win the race, but if I cannot win, then I pray that I may be courageous in the attempt.'


If I'm not mistaken this is the motto of the special olympics.


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## MountainMeadows (Feb 28, 2011)

Best wishes & many prayers to you Lucy and to Pinkie & her unborn foal - as you know, my heart just aches for you since I have been thru a similar situation

Dr Taylor - we love your insight and value your help on this forum. From a learning perspective can you tell us all if the mare's ability to filter her own system is also what is in charge of filtering the unborn baby's sytem, or does the unborn foal have the ability to filter on it's own at this stage - that would surely be a blessing in this situation.

Thank you and my prayers to you all,

Stacy


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## AnnaC (Feb 28, 2011)

What a wonderful quote from Dr. Taylor and a heartfelt way of looking at life. Please accept my prayers for you all and for the courageous Pinkie and her baby, we can never know what these amazing animals of ours will achieve until we let them try.

You have my sympathies at this very sad time and are continuously in my thoughts.

Sending hugs.

Anna


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## Eagle (Feb 28, 2011)

What a terrible situation you are in. I am sending my prayers for you, Pinkie and her unborn foal. God bless you.


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## drmatthewtaylor (Feb 28, 2011)

chandab said:


> If I'm not mistaken this is the motto of the special olympics.


You're right, its not original. But, I think its great for people to think about the fight rather than the victory. Unfortunately in my job we frequently don't win the war, but we fight the good fight.

Dr Taylor


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## drmatthewtaylor (Feb 28, 2011)

MountainMeadows said:


> Best wishes & many prayers to you Lucy and to Pinkie & her unborn foal - as you know, my heart just aches for you since I have been thru a similar situation
> 
> Dr Taylor - we love your insight and value your help on this forum. From a learning perspective can you tell us all if the mare's ability to filter her own system is also what is in charge of filtering the unborn baby's sytem, or does the unborn foal have the ability to filter on it's own at this stage - that would surely be a blessing in this situation.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

At this stage of gestation the kidneys are competent in the foal. But toxins may damage the placenta. My guess is mother and foal would expire at about the same time, not the same moment but the same relative time.

But, we treat patients, not numbers and at times a patient might be doing better than what we would guess based on the numbers.

Dr Taylor


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## wingnut (Feb 28, 2011)

{{{{ hugs }}}}


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## MountainMeadows (Feb 28, 2011)

Thank you Dr Taylor










-

Yes, we need to remember to treat the patient not the numbers. Sonata's numbers were depressingly "off the charts" when I brought her home to spend her last few days surrounded by familiar things and her friends - she lived nearly a full year and had a wonderful spring & summer - so healthy acting that I thought that she had actually turned the corner, but sadly it was not the case, she peacefully expired from an apparent heart attack from build up of toxins after having a well loved extra few months.

Again, thank you for all you insight.

Stacy


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## ClickMini (Feb 28, 2011)

I am happy this is the decision you have come to. You have been a great "mom" to Pinkie, and you still are. I talked with Stacy this morning and I think she will try to get a hold of you as well. I think her biggest challenge was getting her little mare to eat enough. Hopefully you can find things that will pique her interest. Still thinking good, strong wishes for you and Pinkie and her baby!


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## chandab (Feb 28, 2011)

drmatthewtaylor said:


> You're right, its not original. But, I think its great for people to think about the fight rather than the victory. Unfortunately in my job we frequently don't win the war, but we fight the good fight.
> 
> Dr Taylor


How true.

[i've got a fight right now, and I'm hoping to win the war, but it'll take time.]


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## Field-of-Dreams (Feb 28, 2011)

ClickMini said:


> I am happy this is the decision you have come to. You have been a great "mom" to Pinkie, and you still are. I talked with Stacy this morning and I think she will try to get a hold of you as well. I think her biggest challenge was getting her little mare to eat enough. Hopefully you can find things that will pique her interest. Still thinking good, strong wishes for you and Pinkie and her baby!


Stacey did call me this morning, and I thank you ALL very, very much.


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## Riverrose28 (Feb 28, 2011)

Dr. Taylor has made me cry, his words of wisdom have touched my heart, maybe if you bring her home you can save her foal and have her legacy to love. I will say a pray to Saint Francis, and to the Great One to give you strength. Pleas keep use updated has Pinkie's story has touched our hearts.


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## supaspot (Feb 28, 2011)

Im praying that pinkies baby survives to carry on her legacy , you have done so much for her , perhaps raising her baby could be the last thing you can do for her


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## Miniv (Feb 28, 2011)

Work closely with your vet(s) when you bring Pinkie home. It was wonderful to read both Stacy's and Dr. Taylor's posts. My prayer is that Pinkie is able to be maintained comfortably and give you her foal to carry on her legacy. Hand raising a foal isn't easy (only done it once) but it is gratifying when the little one reaches weaning age and is strong and sassy and knows he's a part of a HORSE herd.

You have TONS of on line support right here....USE IT!


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## MINI REASONS (Feb 28, 2011)

My heart & prayers are with you.



If you can, try to save the foal so her sweet legacy lives on.


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## Field-of-Dreams (Feb 28, 2011)

She is home. Got right on the trailer, and hopped right off. She hollered to her girlfriends right away. I turned her loose for a while, she trotted off and began to graze. She looks happy already. I did put her in a stall for the night, she went right in and started eating her hay.

So, we will keep our hopes up, pray she keeps eating and drinking, and hope for the best. We have absolutely nothing to lose at this point!

And I DID see baby kicking as she stood in the trailer!


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## Little Wolf Ranch (Feb 28, 2011)

I am sending so many prayers to your aid. Give her hugs and kisses for all of us!


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## rcfarm (Feb 28, 2011)

Sending prayers and hugs. God Bless


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## drmatthewtaylor (Feb 28, 2011)

She didn't 'look' happy. She is happy. And I'm glad to hear it.

All life is is more better days and hers just got better.

Dr Taylor


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## dreaminmini (Feb 28, 2011)

Enjoy your time with her. Sending prayers for you and Pinkie and the wee foal.


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## 3EagleFarm (Feb 28, 2011)

So sad to read about your news. But I am glad that she is home now!

Praying for Pinkie and her little foal!!


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## Mona (Feb 28, 2011)

I am so happy to hear you have decided to bring Pinkie home to live out her remaining days there with you and her pasture mates. She will be so much more at ease there, and hopefully she will have the chance to give birth to her foal and even raise it, God willing. Hugs, prayers and well wishes for Pinie, her unborn foal, and for you!


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## Reble (Feb 28, 2011)

Oh how sad, but so glad to hear she is home and happy.

Lot of




ray



ray and thinking of you in your time of need...

Do you have her on camera? Hoping for a healthy foal.


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## McBunz (Feb 28, 2011)

Wishing you and Pinky the best of luck.. She will probably do better at home.


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## Knottymare (Mar 1, 2011)

drmatthewtaylor said:


> 'I pray that I may win the race, but if I cannot win, then I pray that I may be courageous in the attempt.'
> 
> The honor is in the battle and the attitude with which you approach it. Each day is a gift, enjoy the ones you have left. Don't forget, nobody told her.
> 
> ...


This is how I'll be praying for her. And praying you'll be able to enjoy each moment you have with her.

Amazing words, Dr. Taylor.


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## albahurst (Mar 1, 2011)

Prayer works wonders.

Adding prayers for you, your mare, and her foal.


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## wcr (Mar 1, 2011)

I am truly sorry about Pinkie and you are in a tough situation. I hope she hangs in and has a healthy foal but sometimes it is just not to be. Raising an orphan foal is very hard with the sleepless nights and you will need people to help you because it is almost impossible to do it yourself.

Does anyone have "Mama was an igloo" to download? That may be helpful and if not I have a copy in my files so email me and I can scan it and send it to you.

I ended up with an orphan filly at 5 weeks old and she refused the bottle. I was almost in tears trying to get her to eat when one of my old mares who had a filly walked up and the orphan snuck in the backdoor and drank. I made a deal with Sarahbell that if she would let the filly nurse I would give her grain and that worked out.


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## MiLo Minis (Mar 1, 2011)

Prayers said for a peaceful end for Pinkie at home where she is loved and many more prayers for the foal to live! Stay strong.


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## drmatthewtaylor (Mar 1, 2011)

wcr said:


> I am truly sorry about Pinkie and you are in a tough situation. I hope she hangs in and has a healthy foal but sometimes it is just not to be. Raising an orphan foal is very hard with the sleepless nights and you will need people to help you because it is almost impossible to do it yourself.
> 
> Does anyone have "Mama was an igloo" to download? That may be helpful and if not I have a copy in my files so email me and I can scan it and send it to you.
> 
> I ended up with an orphan filly at 5 weeks old and she refused the bottle. I was almost in tears trying to get her to eat when one of my old mares who had a filly walked up and the orphan snuck in the backdoor and drank. I made a deal with Sarahbell that if she would let the filly nurse I would give her grain and that worked out.


Interesting addition to the thread. I have never had a baby of any species that I was not able to successfully wean at 30 days old. Babies do not 'need' milk for 4 months to survive. I will grant you longer is probably better and early weaned babies will take longer to achieve mature size, but I would never encourage someone to keep a 5 week old baby on milk unless it was very easy and available.

Dr Taylor


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Mar 1, 2011)

I wasn't going to add to this thread since there is really nothing I can say that will help with Pinkie. I hope things turn out better than you expect and I feel for the heartbreak you are suffering now. I did want to respond tho to wcr who says its hard to raise an orphan and nearly impossible alone.

I raised my orphan filly alone, not impossible at all. I must admit to having created a 'stall' for her in my unfinished basement because the idea of going out to feed in the dark every couple of hours on those cold April nights did not appeal to me lol. She was 9 days old when we lost her Momma and she was on a bottle for about a week until I could teach her how to drink from a pan. Once talking her milk replacer from the pan I just had to be sure it would stay clean and then I could serve enough at one time to last through 2 feeds. It was cool enough (air temp) not to spoil and baby learned to not care if her meal was warm (my vet assured me warm was not a requirement)The biggest problem I had was adjusting the volume as she grew and then the strength of the mix. My vet and I worked closely on what would be the best mix strength since the directions had it so rich that baby got runny butt. As she grew and ate more we diluted the mix and encouraged her to eat solids. She has grown into a healthy 3 yr old now. It can be done, and the foal can thrive.

I do hope tho that for you it doesn't come to that and somehow your mare manages to hold on and give her baby what he/she needs. Good luck.


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## Field-of-Dreams (Mar 1, 2011)

Pinkie DOES have an udder, and I was able to express clear sticky milk this morning, so... here's hoping! She wanted OUT but I want to be there at first. I didn't see any more acorns out there but you never know.


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## supaspot (Mar 1, 2011)

Im glad pinkies home and I believe its probably the best place for her , just wanted to say Ive raised an orphan , his mum died when he was two weeks old and we didnt use a bottle he drank straight from bowl , he had a bowl fixed to the wall in his stable and we filled it with milk at bed time , by the time he was a month old he was eating hay too so no need to get up during the night during the day I turned him out with another foal (the dam wouldnt feed him but tolerated his presence) he grazed the lawn and was able to come into the kitchen and ask for his milk , one thing I will say is try to let him mix with other horses as much as possible or he will forget hes a horse

It may never happen so worry about that if and when it comes , I think Pinkie will hang on until her baby can manage without her , after all isnt that what mums do


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## sedeh (Mar 1, 2011)

Sounds like Pinkie is happy to be home! Might just be what she needed to turn this around. Please keep us updated about her and the foal. Keeping her in my prayers!



ray


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## ClickMini (Mar 1, 2011)

Praying for Pinkie! Go Pinkie!


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## drmatthewtaylor (Mar 1, 2011)

Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> I wasn't going to add to this thread since there is really nothing I can say that will help with Pinkie. I hope things turn out better than you expect and I feel for the heartbreak you are suffering now. I did want to respond tho to wcr who says its hard to raise an orphan and nearly impossible alone.
> 
> I raised my orphan filly alone, not impossible at all. I must admit to having created a 'stall' for her in my unfinished basement because the idea of going out to feed in the dark every couple of hours on those cold April nights did not appeal to me lol. She was 9 days old when we lost her Momma and she was on a bottle for about a week until I could teach her how to drink from a pan. Once talking her milk replacer from the pan I just had to be sure it would stay clean and then I could serve enough at one time to last through 2 feeds. It was cool enough (air temp) not to spoil and baby learned to not care if her meal was warm (my vet assured me warm was not a requirement)The biggest problem I had was adjusting the volume as she grew and then the strength of the mix. My vet and I worked closely on what would be the best mix strength since the directions had it so rich that baby got runny butt. As she grew and ate more we diluted the mix and encouraged her to eat solids. She has grown into a healthy 3 yr old now. It can be done, and the foal can thrive.
> 
> I do hope tho that for you it doesn't come to that and somehow your mare manages to hold on and give her baby what he/she needs. Good luck.


Another great point, it is a myth that milk needs to be warm. Milk can be fed at 40' once the baby is eating well (usually about 10-14 days or so) and fed ad lib. This will reduce the attachment to the 'foster mother' and mimic a more normal feeding schedule of frequent small feeding rather than a few large ones.

BTW, mares actually will out produce cows of a comparable size. The difference is mares do not store their milk like cows so they only have a small amount available per feeding.

Dr Taylor


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## chandab (Mar 1, 2011)

drmatthewtaylor said:


> Interesting addition to the thread. I have never had a baby of any species that I was not able to successfully wean at 30 days old. Babies do not 'need' milk for 4 months to survive. I will grant you longer is probably better and early weaned babies will take longer to achieve mature size, but I would never encourage someone to keep a 5 week old baby on milk unless it was very easy and available.
> 
> Dr Taylor


This is what our regular vet has told me with our orphaned calves; liquid milk replacer for 30 days, then onto the milk pellets and creep ration, works like a charm (at least when I feed them, my husband doesn't feed them enough grain/creep and they don't get enough out of our hay/pasture that young). [Hadn't discussed other animals with him, as so far, we've only dealt with orphaned calves; and usually we can graft them onto another cow, now and then we do have to take them to weaning, I had 4 one year.



]


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## MountainMeadows (Mar 1, 2011)

Dr Taylor

I am wondering if you would recommend putting PInkie on Regumate, SMZ's and possibly light does of Banamine to help her maintain this pregnancy as long as possible - I know for stress and placentitis the protocol does help immensely

Stacy


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## supaspot (Mar 1, 2011)

wouldnt that put her kidneys under more stress with the extra work of removing the chemicals from her system ?


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## drmatthewtaylor (Mar 1, 2011)

MountainMeadows said:


> Dr Taylor
> 
> I am wondering if you would recommend putting PInkie on Regumate, SMZ's and possibly light does of Banamine to help her maintain this pregnancy as long as possible - I know for stress and placentitis the protocol does help immensely
> 
> Stacy


Probably not. I also don't want to do 'arm chair' Vetting

Banamine would be contraindicated. Regumate only if less than about 280 days or if she was crashing. SMZ if she showed signs of infection, oral antibiotics can cause diarrhea leading to dehydration. Deadly for Mom.

She probably doesn't have placentitis.

Dr Taylor


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## Eagle (Mar 1, 2011)

I am very pleased to hear that you have your little girl at home with you.

Every day is a gift for all of us so live it like it is your last, who knows what the future holds, we can only pray for happiness and health. I am praying for you.


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## Carolyn R (Mar 1, 2011)

Every time I check back on this post, I don't think I breath until I finish reading. Indeed, everyday is a gift, we never know from one day to the next. She will be here just as long as she is intended to be here, just as you or I or anyone else. Take what patience, knowledge, support, and friendship you can from the situation, do the best you can with it, and the rest is out of your hands.

Sending good thougths and prayers your way.


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