# Still Waiting



## albahurst (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks for the invite to this chat board!

I am needing some support right now, cuz I am worn out with worry and waiting!

My older mare, 24 yrs young, is in foal. We had a vet check prior to breeding her nearly a year ago. At about 220 days she started showing signs of bagging up

so she was started on preventive measures for placentitis. She also was 'in heat' 24/7 at that time- it had gottten progressively worse the farther along in her pg she went. Anyway, we did get vet approval for the course of treatment. She was on Regumate and Tucoprim. At 342 days, vet said to get her

off the regumate totally (we had been weaning down a little) but to keep her on the Tucoprim until she foals.. She went right into a massive heat cycle but still hasnt foaled. She is over the heat type cycle now and is at 359 days..

The foal still moves a little, so I think it still is viable. But, I have never had a mare go so long! Last foal of hers was 343 days. I didn't own her then, however. This is our first foal out of her.

I contacted Bonnie Fogg- she has been so helpful. But, still I worry.

I have been sleeping for the past month on a mattress (in the kitchen) in front of the TV screen so that I can watch the video cam at night. I don't sleep much LOL She is also on a foal alarm all the time.

A rain storm came through last night- still no foal.

I think the Regumate messed her up??? I don't know. I worry about that and that she won't be able to even go into labor. Also, I worry that the foal will be too big. Mare is only 31.5"

Any words of wisdom here?

Of course, this foal is my dream foal. ( aren't they all




)

Peggy

Here is a picture of Grandma Mare taken last summer.


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## Eagle (Jul 8, 2012)

Hi and welcome to the nutty nursery



First thing to say is that your girl is gorgeous



I have no experience with regumate but the others here will help, as long as you can see the foal moving I am sure all is well. Is there anyway you can get your cam on-line so we can help you watch her?

Renee from Italy


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## AnnaC (Jul 8, 2012)

Just want to welcome you to the Nutty Nursery!! Glad to have you here with us.





I'm not too sure I am knowledgable enough to give you advice about your mare (she's gorgeous by the way!) regarding the drugs she has been having - not sure what the Tucoprim is for and I thought possible/confirmed placentits was treated with anti-biotics and that Regumate was given when there seemed to be problem with carrying a foal to term.

I live in the UK so am not that familiar with the names of some of the drugs available or their uses, but I'm sure someone here will be able to help. As Renee says, if you can see the foal moving, I am sure all will be well and you will soon have a new little one scampering around with its gorgeous Momma.

Again, welcome and do join in with the other threads on here - it is a very friendly forum.


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## chandab (Jul 8, 2012)

Anna, I'm not 100% certain, but pretty sure that Tucoprim is another name for Uniprim (which I use) and both are a powder form of SMZs (they are specifically for horses, and if Tucoprim is like Uniprim, its a once daily regime). [Hope that helps, since it seems most everyone here knows what SMZs are. (for those that don't its a sulfa drug combo).]

I know nothing about using Regumate, except what I've read here on LB.

Peggy, welcome to the Nutty Nursery. I already posted on your main forum thread, but thought I'd state it here too. My AQHA mare went nearly 365 days with her first foal, and she had a healthy, vigorous filly; she did have a little bit of a rough time, but I imagine that was as much that she was maiden, as the length of the pregnancy. I'm sure you're girl will do fine, since she is an experienced broodmare.


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## targetsmom (Jul 8, 2012)

Our Regumate mare has foaled both times while still on Regumate, so I doubt that could be delaying things.

By the way, these Aunties are the best and helped us to our best foaling season ever. They love photos....which I post even well after the births to reward them!

And agree the mare is gorgeous so hope she rewards you soon with a healthy foal.


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## Wings (Jul 8, 2012)

Hi and welcome!

I don't know much about drugs and treatment/effect but I do believe our mares like to drive us all crazy.

If there is a lot of concern would a vet visit and an ultrasound be able to tell you anything?

Try not to worry about foal size, in general the mare dictates the size of the foal. That's why you will see welsh/tb crossbreeds where the dam was the welsh! I've also met riding pony/mini crosses where again the dam was the smaller horse. Ultimately it's something that you can't effect so, easier said then done but, it's best to try and let that stress go otherwise you risk it wearing you down. I really do understand the stress though, I have two 31" girls in foal this year. One (in my avatar) has a long foaling history, no problems etc but her sister has only had one foal! The other was stillborn and she reabsorbed the next. Like I said I'm trying not to stress because I can't change anything


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## albahurst (Jul 8, 2012)

thanks guys! I will try to get some photos tomorrow. She sure looks dropped to me. I need to check her tail resistance. She doesn't make a bag without Domperidone (I have some on hand to use after she foals). She also doens't elongate much. She is a bit swollen in the vulva.

I actually had a vet come out about two weeks ago. An equine center ( I have been working with them some- long distance) suggested I get a vet out here who could palpate. But, when the vet got here (she was only 30 minutes away), she had an ultrasound machine and could not find the foal even---and yes the mare is pregnant. She said she didn't feel comfortable palpating a mini. My vet who can palpate is two hours away and doesn't want me to transport the mare at this point.

I just messaged another vet I know- she is 90 minutes away- and she knows how to palpate. She will come out on Tuesday morning, as she is going to be int the area.

Thanks for the compliments on my old mare. I think she is in incredible shape for her age. I feel very blessed to have her.


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## AnnaC (Jul 9, 2012)

Chanda, thanks for the info on the Tucoprim!

Peggy - are you Peggy, Chanda called you Peggy and we cant keep calling you Albahurst, so Peggy it is unless you say that it is wrong? Would love some pics of your little lady, and just wanted to wish you (and her) good luck for Tuesday.


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## albahurst (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes- I am Peggy





I took a photo on my phone but can't seem to get it to post- will work on it later- she set off the beeper and I need to go check on her


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## Wings (Jul 9, 2012)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> There are several of us that are very much in love with our "old girls".....me included. I personally like the girls that are late in their teens or early twenties!! They can make the most gorgeous babies and they are such good mommies!!
> 
> Good luck tomorrow -- and we'd love some pictures of her in her pregnant state!!! We love those round bellies!


Some of the breeders I have learnt from believe a mares best foals arrive during her 10 year old through to 15 year old seasons. That's why I'm suprised that in the mini world I often find nice broodmares for sale who are only 6 or 8!


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## albahurst (Jul 9, 2012)

ok- the vet two hrs away said I needed to bring my mare asap this afternoon. So, I did. He says the foal is a mummy and the mare will have to abort it on her own.

If he tried to get it out, she would not make it.

So, we will wait. Part of me wants to believe the foal is still ok. The movement apparently is contractions as her body is working to move the dead foal out.

What a heartbreaker. I hope he is wrong


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## chandab (Jul 10, 2012)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Oh no!!! We'll just keep praying for you that your mare will make it through this with no problems. I'm so sorry this happened. And we'll pray with you that he is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ray


Me, too!



ray


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## AnnaC (Jul 10, 2012)

Oh I am so very sorry - I really hope that he is wrong! Will be saying prayers for your little mare. Please stay here to let us know how things progress and do join in with the other threads to take your mind off some of the worry while you are waiting.


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## Wings (Jul 10, 2012)

Oh no! Oh how horrible





Thinking of you


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## targetsmom (Jul 10, 2012)

Oh, no, so sorry, was hoping for much better news. May I ask how he determined that the foal is a mummy? Ultrasound?? Other signs? Just trying to learn here. Praying that the mare will be OK if he is right, but of course, hope he is wrong.


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## palsminihorses (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. Prayers heading your way.



ray


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## albahurst (Jul 10, 2012)

This am I spoke in depth with the equine repro specialist at a horse only clinic/hospital. There is some question in her mind whether or not the foal has actually died. She said it would be difficult to determine that it had mummified via the rectal ultrasound done yesterday by a different vet. I discussed with her the reasons that vet thought what he did. Ok- so the mare is on her way now to the equine hospital. It is a 5 hr trip for her. I sent her best friend along for company. Hopefully we will have some news this evening or at least by tomorrow. The vet will attempt to locate a fetal heartbeat via abdominal ultrasound, also do additional testing - palpation, rectal ultrasound, and I don't know what else. If the foal has indeed died, the mare would be at risk for infection and then we could have a real mess and potentially an emergency c-section. So, the mare is on her way - still doing ok and I am relieved to know someone will be taking care of her and checking this out further. Apparently her hormones are messed up- she is 24 yrs old after all. So, I am hoping there is still a live foal in there and that she is just needing some hormone adjustment or something to help her get it here. She could also possibly need a c-section. It is also possible that the foal has died. We just dont know yet.


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## targetsmom (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks so much for the update. Continuing to send prayers and glad that she will be where she can get the help she might need.


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## Equuisize (Jul 10, 2012)

Want to add my good thoughts and prayers for a good outcome that your mommy mare come thru this well,


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## AnnaC (Jul 10, 2012)

I'll be adding my prayers in the hope of a successful outcome to her trip to the Equine Centre. It sounds as though she will be in the right place for the best and most experienced attention. I was also wondering how the other vet could tell the foal was 'mummified'? Surely if the foal had died, your mare would quickly have become ill, or at least feverish and you would have noticed her being 'off colour'. Surely for the foal to have become actually 'mummified' it must have been dead for sometime? Sorry, I'm just trying to understand things - any knowledge is so very valuable regarding the breeding of these special little horses.

Did the vet at the centre say anything about the drugs your mare had been given - just wondering if they could have affected her or her hormones in any way. Do hope that the Centre can find the answers for you - and for her. Keeping my fingers cross and saying prayers for the best possible outcome.


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## cassie (Jul 10, 2012)

prayign for you guys! hoping you get the answers you require very soon!


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## Wings (Jul 11, 2012)

Keeping my fingers crossed for good news.


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## albahurst (Jul 11, 2012)

Hi all-

Sorry to take so long in getting back with you---I had to be away today to tend to family matters.

Anyway, here is the update from the CO vets-

The phone rang- I answered with great anticipation. The vet said, "I have an answer for you!" So, she proceded to tell me that after three ultrasounds and xrays, she found that Gma Mare

did not have a foal in her at all! I about fell over!! She apparently slipped it awhile back and we didn't know it. I must admit I am relieved, disappointed we won't have a foal out of her, but definately relieved there is not a dead baby in her that we had to figure out how to get out. The movement was gut motility.

Anyway, Gma mare and her buddy arrived safely home from CO at 1:00 am today. Thanks SO much to my wonderful neighbors and friends for doing the long distance hauling for me, as I had to be away for my sister's

memorial today.\

What an experience this has been! Thanks for all your support!


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## Wings (Jul 11, 2012)

Sorry you've missed out on a baby but so happy your mare is not at risk!


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## palsminihorses (Jul 11, 2012)

So happy to hear that your mare is fine and you don't have to worry about her. Sorry she slipped the foal.


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## albahurst (Jul 11, 2012)

So now I have a question for you all




Do I tell the vet that 'goofed up' what happened or just leave it alone? I use that vet alot and he has never misguided me in the past. I am afraid if I tell him

the mare was not pg, I may end up without a vet!


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## chandab (Jul 11, 2012)

albahurst said:


> So now I have a question for you all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a tough one, but I'd likely leave it alone; especially since no harm was done, except maybe to your pocketbook. did the vet that diagnosed her open say if she had fluids in her or anything that might give the impression of a foal still being there (dead or alive)? Mostly just curious.


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## AnnaC (Jul 12, 2012)

So very sorry that there will not be a foal for you, but it is great news that your sweet mare is fine and wont be needing any treatment.

Did the vet say anything about all the drugs she was given or offer an opinion as to whether they might have affected the foal? If not, then I agree with the others and would leave speaking to usual vet unless he asks. If there was a chance of the drugs causing the loss then you might have to think again.


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## Wings (Jul 12, 2012)

albahurst said:


> So now I have a question for you all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know if it was my vet I could tell him and he wouldn't be offended, in fact knowing him he'd want to contact the vet who sorted it out and try and learn from it.

But I think it largely comes down to how you and your vert interact and how you think he is likely to take it.


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## targetsmom (Jul 12, 2012)

Sorry about the much -anticipated foal but SO glad your prized mare is OK!! It sounds a bit like what happened to us a few years ago - a mare we sent to an outside stallion came back confirmed in foal and we waited with great anticipation for our first mini foal. Her pregnancy seemed to proceed normally, she bagged up right on schedule, etc, and then her milk stopped changing. We had an external US and the vet said she was 99% sure there was no foal. Then the mare cam back into heat! Apparently they don't call it a "false pregnancy" but that is what we called it. It can only happen if the mare was pregnant and then slipped the foal. We were sure we were feeling the foal kick and even bought a camera and put the mare on Mare Stare.

I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your vet. If it were either of mine (one for repro work, a closer one for all else, including foal delivery!) I would feel comfortable letting them know and helping them learn. I think I would just say I was worried about the mare, sent her to X, and they found no foal.


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