# Would you buy a previously foundered riding horse?



## Chelley (Jul 6, 2011)

I am looking for a riding horse for my very inexperienced daughter. A lady I know of has a nice looking horse for sale, 12 years of age, gelding, but has foundered in the recent past. She uses the same vet I do and supposedly the vet X-rayed him and said the coffin bone was not rotated, so that was good. She dry lots him because he foundered on green grass early spring this year. She said that he has the best temperment and laid back attitude, but I don't know enough about a horse that has foundered to know if it is too risky. I want something that my daughter can learn and gain confidence on, but I don't want to invest into trouble if he is likely to go lame on us soon. Don't know if we would continue to dry lot him when the grass is real wet and green if he would likely be okay, or if it will just be a constant headache keeping him healthy. Any thoughts or experience in this matter would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Ashley (Jul 6, 2011)

call the vet and talk to them about the findings.

I wouldnt rule out the horse. I just gave away a older 20's horse who had foundered years before I or the previous owners had her. She never gave either of us an issue. I gave her to a 12 year old girl who is just starting out and and rides her with out issue. The important thing with a foundered horse is to eliminate the issue that caused them to founder.

The thing with grass founder is they are never really safe to ever go out on any kind of grass. So if you are able to keep him on dry lot with out issue then he should be fine.


----------



## Windhaven (Jul 6, 2011)

Hello Chelley

I would consider this for a child to learn on if he is as quiet as she says.

I would first ask the vets what their thoughts are on how bad his founder was. Ask to see the ex-rays. Or I would get him checked myself by the vet. That way they can tell you exactly what is wrong.

If he is not bad and there is no rotate, he should be fine for a horse to learn on. I would just make sure he gets the same feed every day and NO I would not put him out on grass. The best thing for a founder horse is the same diet every day. Keep his feet trimmed and shod if you are going to be riding on hard uneven ground.

Some horses have a mild founder once and it never bothers them again with proper diet and exercise.

But for peace of mind, YOU should have him vet checked.

Good luck.


----------



## drmatthewtaylor (Jul 7, 2011)

As long as you have reasonable expectations, I think foundered horses can be the perfect place for a novice to start. If the novice realizes the horse's limitations and asks for one that can move better or faster, then great, that first horse did it's job.

If the previous owner allows your Vet to go over the records/radiographs with you, then certainly do it. But, even though you may not be asking for a prepurchase exam, this is essentially the information you'll be getting. Any Vet (even your Vet) should not do a prepurchase for you when he/she has a business relationship with the seller. Your Vet should ask you to involve a 3rd Vet who has no relationship with the seller.

I appreciate that this probably seems unnecessary, but it would be money well spent and likely would be what your Vet would prefer.

Dr Taylor


----------



## Marty (Jul 7, 2011)

Absolutely not. No way no how.


----------



## Jill (Jul 7, 2011)

This is not something I would consider. They make horses every day and while it's important to find the RIGHT horse, you can find one w/o this issue and greater potential for heart break.


----------



## Connie Ballard (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree...sadly I wouldnt want to take the chance...and here is why:

In 1982 got my first horse...the previous owner did NOT share that he'd been foundered...he was 4yrs old.

He had flare-ups over the years. Sometimes he'd 'flare' over a quick snap in temp from cool to very hot weather, then in his teens, he'd 'flare up' in mid-late September every year when weather would go from warm to cooler days. Of course, this would happen right when we looked forward to trail riding in the fall with friends, cooler more comfortable days...and Buddy couldnt be used.

Note: About a year after I got him when he had his first flare up...vet xrays showed he had not rotated.

Many years of managing his special needs included egg bar shoes, keeping shoes on him all year even during Ohio winters when didnt ride, had him hot-shod trying different options to keep him comfortable and moving around.

When I got him, they called him Houdini...and he truly lived upto his name...had a way of getting out or getting into situations/trouble...but I called him Buddy and he was a great friend who's memory I will cherish forever. He died here at age 20 of cushings.

Bottoline...to Marty's comment...as my husband says...there are too many good, healthy horses out there to buy one with known problems. If you just wanted him to mess with and care for...I'd say fine..but if you want him to be as reliable as possible for this youth...I'd keep looking. Best of luck!


----------



## Chelley (Jul 7, 2011)

Connie Ballard said:


> I agree...sadly I wouldnt want to take the chance...and here is why:
> 
> In 1982 got my first horse...the previous owner did NOT share that he'd been foundered...he was 4yrs old.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much everyone for all of your input. I just didn't know enough about it. I did a little research too and I don't think I will risk it. He may be a wonderful horse, but I feel like I would just be buying trouble. Someone (an old horse guy we know) had told me in the past that a foundered horse is the best kind of horse for an inexperienced rider. I didn't know exactly what he meant by that because I didn't know what foundering did to a horse...I guess his reasoning was that they are so uncomfortable from the pain that they don't want to do anything. We will just have to keep looking for something that she can learn to ride on and really enjoy, hopefully healthy and pain free. Scary purchasing a new horse and not knowing exactly what you are getting. Unfortunately, some horse people don't have the greatest reputation of being honest about what they are selling, then you get the horse home and their problems/vices come out. When you are fairly inexperienced you don't always know what to watch for. I appreciate that this lady was honest with me about his problem, but of course she is a past acquaintance. Hopefully we will find something we will love....and soon...she is driving me crazy showing me all the horse for sale ads! ;-) Thanks again!


----------



## Marty (Jul 7, 2011)

I'll elaborate:

Purchaseing a horse for your child is a very serious thing. You want to be sure his dream doesn't not burst and his feelings terribly hurt because you messed up on your choice.

First a good looking horse for a child means nothing to me. A laid back "tude" in the pasture also doesn't mean that much. Its all about his health, manners and training under saddle. This horse already has a disease.

He should be required to stay off grass and have you bring in a founder specialist as a farrier. Most farriers will tell you they do have knowledge of trimming foundered horses and are lying to you sure as I am sitting here. You should also probably need to invest in horse boots for riding time (about $200 or more) and also special supplements and a very careful diet. Once a horse has foundered, he will be prone to do it again easier than a horse that has not. So if you want to call this a constant headache, maybe it will or maybe it won't be but when you have to keep reminding your child over and over again "Don't do that or don't do this with him" won't be much fun.

As far as "rotation" of the coffin bone that is the most misleading terminology ever. The coffin bone itself does not move: the bone goes nowhere: its the hoof wall that separates that moves. Not the coffin bone.

Knowing you purchased a horse for your child that had a serious problem pending that could be compounded easily that could ultimately result in your having to put him to sleep would be the furthest thing from my mind. You have actually said it all in a nutshell that you don't have enough background on this disease to manage a foundered horse properly.

I would highly suggest that you pay for riding lessons for your child at a very repuatable stable with a great and awesome instructor in lew of making a purchase at this time. The trainer will be able to evaluate his level of riding eventually and then assist you in making a purchase. This will buy you both time to gain the proper knowledge that you really should have under your belt. Best wishes to you.


----------



## targetsmom (Jul 7, 2011)

After the experience I had with a foundered horse (my very first) I would not buy a horse that I knew or even suspected had foundered. That was 50 years ago and the painful memories are still there. Repeated episodes that got so bad that MANY times we thought we would end her suffering... and then she would rebound until the next time.

There are too many horses out there right now to pick from. Of course if something happens to one you already own, that is different, but why invite trouble? Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Margo_C-T (Jul 7, 2011)

No, never.

I bought a B sized miniature driving mare that had 'nearly' foundered, as I remember the previous owner stating. Previous owner, an animal health care professional,told the mare had been X-rayed, not once but twice, and there was no rotation. Mare did do well for about two years, then out of the blue and with NO apparent cause, she became extremely sore. With supportive care, she finally went 'sound' again, but no sooner did I begin slowly to drive her again than she again became sore...and then, the same cycle again. I am committed to the lifetime care of the others I already had(most for many years/bred and raised), and do not have the resources to 'retire' a teenaged mare who would never be reliably useful ever again; I had her humanely euthanized. Criticize me if you will; it was my situation and my decision, and I did what I felt I had to do. What was brought home to me was the FACT that once a horse has foundered, it will almost ALWAYS be more prone to it happening again, no matter what you do. I was very prudent in my care and use of this mare, but in the end, it made no difference in what occured with her. Based on that experienc, I would NEVER take such a risk again, with any horse, driven or ridden.

Margo


----------



## JennyB (Jul 7, 2011)

As for me I would buy a foundered horse because I have had quite a few of them. One of my geldings foundered in his one front foot, rotation 1/4. It was taken care of quickly and it was a weight founder, he was put on a strick diet, lost weight, taken to a trainer for riding training, sold to a gal who did 25-50 and 100 mile endurance rides with him successfully for many years 




 ..had a few others who foundered and if treated properly can be great horses the rest of their lifes. 

 

My friend had a young gelding who foundered badly again because of being over weight. He had almost full rotation in all fours. Not much hope given. She paid $1000+ to help him get better. The shoer came out every month and put new heart bar shoes on him for a year+ while he grew new feet. She sold him to a gal who showed him extremely successful at horse shows until he was very old. 





 

With all these cases it was VERY important to treat quickly and the right way. No pasture at all except short times on dry grass. If this horse you are looking at or one I would be looking at fit the bill for everything a young girl needed than the founder would not be an issue at all. Talk to the vet who did the x-rays and maybe talk to another vet or two. These horses can be very productive for many years if taken care of properly and as long as he doesn't go out on green grass or injure his leg/legs somehow he won't go lame. Any horse can go lame and doesn't need to be foundered. 





 

Good Luck and Blessings,

Jenny


----------



## disneyhorse (Jul 7, 2011)

I guess it depends, but probably not. There are WAY too many good horses for not much $$ out there right now. However, if it was close to FREE and just an awesome, awesome quiet kids' horse... i might take a chance knowing I might have to euthanize the horse down the road. And I'd think about how emotionally attached my kid(s) would be to the horse... that could be a very sad lesson more likely than not.

Andrea


----------



## stormy (Jul 7, 2011)

I would not have any problem buying a horse that had foundered if there was no evidence of rotation or chronic laminitis. Horses founder for lots of reasons. Good kids horses are hard to come by and worth their weight in gold!!!

Let me tell you the storry of Cochise the pony. I meet Cochise at a girl scout camp many years ago where I was instructor. He was not young then, was foundered, but loved kids and would do anything for them!! Camp did not have very deep pockets so the farrier instead of putting egg bars on him but standard shows on backwards....he was at camp for a long time but riding 3 to 4 hours a day took its toll and he was retired to a private home.....he taught the kids to ride at that home and occasionally did pony rides at grand openings and birthday parties....just talked to his family a few months ago, he is now in his late thirties, early forties, sound and still giving kids rides around the yard...

If the horse is what you need don't hesitate. Talk to your vet about any special needs this horse will have and work with it. No horse comes with any guarentees....any horse can become unusable, sick or injured at any time.


----------



## lil hoofbeats (Jul 8, 2011)

Well, the best horse i ever owned was a foundered gelding, we had the X-rays done and he had a six degree rotation,( mild-1-5, moderate6-10, anything over that is basically a sinker)He also had "seedy toe." I think that is where the sensitive laminae separates from the outer part of the hoof. We put a simple keg shoe on him, and kept him trimmed and shod every 6-8 weeks, and never had a problem. And when i say he was ridden, I mean he was RIDDEN, every weekend, 15-20 mile rides, Sat and Sun, he came home tired, but never lame. And he was a gaited horse, so walking and taking it slow was NOT an option he can put the "hammer down" with soundest of horses. He is by far the best broke horse in Burke county.

Everyone wants to ride him, he is bomb proof, nobody believes he is foundered, but i have the X/rays done by Dr. John Martin of Maiden Large Animal Hospital to prove it.

His name is Checkers, and if you are ever in this direction, you are welcome to ride this foundered gelding, but you will have to make reservations for him, because he is popular, and will be ridden every weekend by someone.

Dr. Martin who specializes in lameness issues said "shoe him, and ride him" that was 13 years ago, Checkers is 19 now and still sound and going strong. I took a chance, and i am sure glad i did!


----------



## shorthorsemom (Jul 8, 2011)

If the horse was free or almost free, maybe. I would also get my own vet to examine the feet. I would have the ideal dry lot situation and comit myself to a no grass life for the horse and consider the price of hay without grazing to offset the money. I would have a pea gravel dry lot like Pete Ramey likes and bed the stable with shavings. If the rotation was not severe and the horse did not have a huge separation of the white line, I would consider the horse. I would purchase the soft ride boots. I would also test the horse for cushings, which I could afford to run the test if the horse was free. If Cushings was the root cause of the founder, I would have to comit to a life of pergolide at about a dollar a day cost. If this horse had a "to die for" temperament and was truly child safe... maybe, but I would educate my children about founder and what that means for care and precautions. That said... My horse Smokey foundered once, the rotation was not severe, we caught it early. After his feet settled down he went many years sound and it was not complications from the founder that caused me to put him down. I rode frequently and I had full pads put on his feet. I had the farrier out every 5 weeks, no more than 6 to keep up with his trims. Later when I took off his shoes, I just rode in ez boots so the stones would not hurt his feet. He did great. Founder was not a death sentence, but he never was allowed to graze again for the rest of his life. He had a to die for temperament and would have been a perfect horse for a little girl to learn on.

Best wishes... IMO you are taking the biggest risk and if the owner of the horse will not consider a free placement or sale for one dollar to be official, I would probably move on and find something else. The reason I mention free or almost free is because for me to be comfortable taking the horse I would probably spend a couple of hundred dollars checking the horse out first. Founder is a heart break, but doesn't always mean a death sentence or total avoidance, but it does requre a founder savy owner that is willing to make the commitment on proper care. good luck, I know how hard it is to find a kid safe horse you can trust. Free talks. Just a thought.



PS, if the vet I had check out the horse found no rotation, then I would consider a modest fee for the horse. Different vet would be a good idea since I just read your post and realized that you share a vet... best wishes


----------



## Chelley (Jul 8, 2011)

shorthorsemom said:


> If the horse was free or almost free, maybe. I would also get my own vet to examine the feet. I would have the ideal dry lot situation and comit myself to a no grass life for the horse and consider the price of hay without grazing to offset the money. I would have a pea gravel dry lot like Pete Ramey likes and bed the stable with shavings. If the rotation was not severe and the horse did not have a huge separation of the white line, I would consider the horse. I would purchase the soft ride boots. I would also test the horse for cushings, which I could afford to run the test if the horse was free. If Cushings was the root cause of the founder, I would have to comit to a life of pergolide at about a dollar a day cost. If this horse had a "to die for" temperament and was truly child safe... maybe, but I would educate my children about founder and what that means for care and precautions. That said... My horse Smokey foundered once, the rotation was not severe, we caught it early. After his feet settled down he went many years sound and it was not complications from the founder that caused me to put him down. I rode frequently and I had full pads put on his feet. I had the farrier out every 5 weeks, no more than 6 to keep up with his trims. Later when I took off his shoes, I just rode in ez boots so the stones would not hurt his feet. He did great. Founder was not a death sentence, but he never was allowed to graze again for the rest of his life. He had a to die for temperament and would have been a perfect horse for a little girl to learn on.
> 
> Best wishes... IMO you are taking the biggest risk and if the owner of the horse will not consider a free placement or sale for one dollar to be official, I would probably move on and find something else. The reason I mention free or almost free is because for me to be comfortable taking the horse I would probably spend a couple of hundred dollars checking the horse out first. Founder is a heart break, but doesn't always mean a death sentence or total avoidance, but it does requre a founder savy owner that is willing to make the commitment on proper care. good luck, I know how hard it is to find a kid safe horse you can trust. Free talks. Just a thought.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much. So much good input on here for both sides. I feel pretty sure we are going to keep looking. We get so attached, as most do, to our animals, and to buy one that we would potentially have to watch suffer from time to time...don't think I can handle that. I know there are no guarantees with any horse, but the more I have read about founder the more I am reluctant. I don't feel I could personally afford to invest the kind of care it might take to keep him healthy...if it happened to one of my babies I already have, yes, but to have to buy him (she said she can't take less than she is asking because she is already taking a considerable loss on him at that price, so "free or almost free" is not an option) and then have so much special care costs for him...just not gonna take that risk. There are a lot of "happy' stories on here about great horses that have foundered and years of enjoyment but also a lot of potential tragedy. I hope he finds a great home, but it will not be mine... too scared of the likely "what ifs".


----------

