# Prayers needed for Pyro



## christina_ski (Dec 12, 2008)

Took Pyro to get gelded this morning. We were using this vet for the first time for a gelding procedure, as they have done well with all our other horse needs. Well the vet was acting very nervous and was having hard time hitting the veins to give Pyro the knock-out meds. Finally got him but gave him barely any, as he was saying better to have them more awake and fight you then too asleep




. Poor Pyro was still pretty much wide awake the whole procedure kicking and fighting, and you could tell he felt everything, the vet rushed quickly through the cutting and took MAYBE 3min total. Well, so they untied him and he started flailing around and his intestines started coming out of his freshly open wound. Luckily I was standing right there and saw it happen and told the vet, and had 2 big guys over that wanted to see the minis, and we got him on his back and luckily very little of the intestines came out and they did not toucht the ground or anything. So we got them back in, first the vet was saying ok we'll sow him up, Then all he did was pack gause in there. And it started coming out right as Pyro stood up. He was in so much pain and I felt terrible for letting it happen. long story short, we were sent home right after with nothing but keep him in a stall tonight and turn him out with everyone tomorrow and make him run, and bring him back tuesday to get the gause out. And no antibiotics or anything. Luckily we talked to a friend about all this and she said to call another vet out NOW!! He is now at a different vets, and I could not bring myself to go with him so Jamie (JMSMiniatures) took him and will let me know how everything goes.

So please pray and keep good thoughts coming for Pyro, So he can pull through this. I don't know what i'll do if I lose my little man














He is the little cowboy in my avatar


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## Matt73 (Dec 12, 2008)

That vet sounds like an idiot! Packing an opening that the intestines are coming out of with just gauze and no sutures? Sounds wierd to me. Did Pyro have an inguinal hernia? That's what it sounds like to me. Best wishes to him and to you


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## StarRidgeAcres (Dec 12, 2008)

OMG! Poor Pyro! I can't put into print what I think about that vet.






This is horrible and I pray your boy does alright.


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## twister (Dec 12, 2008)

OMG that vet shouldn't be allowed near any animal and you should report him to the Vet's association, I don't know what they call it in the US but the vet that is looking after poor Pyro now could tell you. I am keeping Pyro and you in my thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery, gelding should not be like this at all. <HUGS>

Yvonne


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## Taylor Jo (Dec 12, 2008)

OMG'D how TERRIBLE is this..... WHAT AN IDOT. I'd BE SUEING someone!!!!!!! GESH,,,, I hope your boy is ok. Prayers are going up.... I can't believe it. You poor thing. You must be beside yourself. )))))Hugs)=(((((( LOTS of them... My blessings and Gods blessings are rained down upon you and Pryo. PLEASE keep us informed in how he's doing.

THANK GOD you have him at another vet. Smart thinking!!!!! TJ


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## Leeana (Dec 12, 2008)

I would never have even allowed my vet to even think about gelding my horse without him being properly sedated, i would have told the vet that he was not touching that horse until he got him sedated properly, normally my vet uses a little extra sedation (not much extra) as mine are just a tad bit "hotter" boys. And i agree with Matt, that vet sounds like a major idiot.

I'm sorry, it would kill me knowing one of my horses was in that sort of pain


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## Reble (Dec 12, 2008)

thinking of you and Pyro...


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## mizbeth (Dec 12, 2008)

Holy crap and few more words! I will pray for your Pyro, I am so sorry this happened.

You wonder how these guys get a license?

I hope he will be okay and I do not blame you for not wanting to go with him this time. Good lord......

I would certainly be contacting your state VET BOARD about this.

Take care and let us know what happens?

Beth


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## funnybunny (Dec 12, 2008)

Poor Pyro. What a horrible thing to have happen.

I hope you'll be able to have another vet look at him and give another opinion of how his wound should be treated, especially with the complications he had.

Keep us posted.


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## RockRiverTiff (Dec 12, 2008)

How terrifying! I agree with funnybunny that you should have another vet out to look at him. That would be the end of my relationship with that vet. Your little Pyro will be in my prayers tonight.


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## White Socks Miniature (Dec 12, 2008)

OMG! That is horrible! I am a vet tech and yes if we have an animal that is an anesthetic risk we will keep him on the lighter plane of anesthesia, but by no means is the animal feeling anything! How old is your colt? Colts under a year are more prone to evisceration as sometimes the inguinal ring is still quite a large opening but still, why would the vet just pack it?!! yeesh! you did the right thing taking him to another vet, I would have done the same!

Prayers and lots of good thoughts for your colt!!!

masako


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## Filipowicz Farm (Dec 12, 2008)

Hope all works out for the best and your horse is ok. I would report that vet and never have them touch another animal.


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## Genie (Dec 12, 2008)

Prayers for your Pyro.

I don't think I would have allowed the vet to touch him when he wasn't properly sedated, but I guess you don't want to hear that now.

We have had horses sedated on a few occassions in our 17 years of being horse owners, and they are always very groggy and it's obvious they aren't feeling pain, or at least they are not struggling or moving.

For our two gelding procedures the horses were right out.

With the struggling Pyro was doing to get out of the situation he probably caused more damage too.

Sorry for having such a hard lesson.

Hopefully all is well, with a more knowledgeable vet looking after him now.


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## IloveMiniatureshorses (Dec 12, 2008)

Poor Pyro!! Man, I would be giving that horse a piece of my mind!!!

Alyssa


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## txminipinto (Dec 12, 2008)

An equine castration should last longer than 3 minutes. They must use an emasculator to crush the cord AND blood vessels leaving it on for at least a minute (rule of thumb is one minute for every year of life). Normal protocol is to lay the horse down with injectables, visualize/clamp first testicle, strip the second, cut the first, and clamp the second before cutting. How long had this vet been out of school? Why was he so nervous? And if he couldn't visualize the vein for injectables, did he at least clip some hair to see it better? I hope Pyro turns out ok, and I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience. NOT all geldings have these issues.


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## mydaddysjag (Dec 12, 2008)

Sending get well wishes


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## Reijel's Mom (Dec 12, 2008)

I am SO sorry!!! I hope your boy is in much better hands now. Just felt sick reading that and imagining how you and your poor boy must feel



!


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## IloveMiniatureshorses (Dec 12, 2008)

IM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DIDN"T MEAN THE HORSE I MEAN'T THE VET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGAIN, SOOOOO SORRY



I HOPE YOUR HORSE IS OKAY






:stupid OH!

Alyssa

(realllllllllly sorry)


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## REO (Dec 12, 2008)

OMG that poor baby!





I'd like to slap the crap out of that vet! (I use the term loosely) Along with some choice words. I'm so glad he went to another vet for care.

I'm sending prayers for Pyro. {{{{Hugs}}}}


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## Margaret (Dec 12, 2008)

So Sorry Christina, I have never heard of such a thing...

The whole thing must have felt like a nightmare to you!!

That vet must have done something terribly wrong.





Hopefully you can keep him quiet.. ..

Prayers coming your way..


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## End Level Farms (Dec 12, 2008)

Best wishes from us as well.

I have had many many horses gelded even a few crypts and never had an issue like this.

BEST WISHES!!!!!


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## Watcheye (Dec 12, 2008)

I am just sitting here shaking my head. I am so very sorry to hear that he had to go through such a tramatic event!! I would NEVER go back to that vet. What were they thinking?????? OH!


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## Riverdance (Dec 12, 2008)

My guess is the vet who did the castration is a new vet fresh out of school. I would be calling the vet office and talking with the owner right away to let him know what happened. I would also tell him to expect to foot the bill with the second vet and stop payment on the check you gave the first vet.

One of the vets we have here keeps hiring fresh out of school vets. I can not tell you how many times they have misdiagnosed one of my horses. The two owners were really good, but they relied on the young vets too often.

I finally switched vets to a group who have been in practice for years and they do not have new vets on staff all of the time. They are GREAT and I am happy!!

Castration does take longer than 3 minutes and trying to put back intestines without cleaning them and putting the horse on antibiotics is just asking for trouble. The intestines may not have touched the ground, but they were still contaminated by just touching the outside of the horse.

I hope everything turns out well.


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## Maxi'sMinis (Dec 12, 2008)

I am so very sorry. It is so hard to trust anyone these days with your family. Pyro will be in my prayers for him to pull through this. I am so glad he is with a vet, keep faith they will fix him up.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Dec 12, 2008)

I am speechless.




I can only say I am so sorry, Pyro will be in my thoughts (and you too)


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## eagles ring farm (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm so sorry you must be so upset





Prayers for you and your Boy!!

I would speak to a lawyer, just my opinion.

Lori


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## Keri (Dec 12, 2008)

I would definatly not pay the bill and make them pay the other vets bill. Its only right!! I've only had one bad experience with a vet and unfortunately it cost me my horses life.





Keep us informed as to what happens to Pyro.


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## Boinky (Dec 12, 2008)

sounds like this vet needs to be castrated without sedation and see how HE likes it! i can't believe they'd just shove the intestines back in without cleaning them properly and then suturing. what a great way to kill the horse!! i can't believe he'd tell you to run him the next day in a situation like that..those intestines are going to fall back out if there's nothing there to hold them in.. he's just plain STUPID. Glad to hear you have him at a different vet who is hopefully more competent and will make sure to get him on heavy anitibiotics and maybe check those intestines ect. rediculous is all i can say.

I JUST had a boy done the day before yesterday and although it was fast it took a lot longer than 3 minutes.


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## basshorse (Dec 12, 2008)

Prayers for Pyro


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## BlueStar (Dec 12, 2008)

Thoughts and prayers for Pyro and you. Hang in there and stay positive.


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## christina_ski (Dec 12, 2008)

Let me answer some questions first, then I will put an update on Pyro



Matt73 said:


> That vet sounds like an idiot! Packing an opening that the intestines are coming out of with just gauze and no sutures? Sounds wierd to me. Did Pyro have an inguinal hernia? That's what it sounds like to me. Best wishes to him and to you


Yes, I believe that he had an inguinal hernia.



Leeana said:


> I would never have even allowed my vet to even think about gelding my horse without him being properly sedated, i would have told the vet that he was not touching that horse until he got him sedated properly, normally my vet uses a little extra sedation (not much extra) as mine are just a tad bit "hotter" boys. And i agree with Matt, that vet sounds like a major idiot.
> I'm sorry, it would kill me knowing one of my horses was in that sort of pain


I know I should have stopped him right then and there, but thought maybe since Pyro was kicking the crap out of him he would have stopped and gave him some more sedation.



Genie said:


> Prayers for your Pyro.
> I don't think I would have allowed the vet to touch him when he wasn't properly sedated, but I guess you don't want to hear that now.
> 
> We have had horses sedated on a few occassions in our 17 years of being horse owners, and they are always very groggy and it's obvious they aren't feeling pain, or at least they are not struggling or moving.
> ...


I know, very hard lesson learned. It was one of those in the moment, beside myself I can not believe this is happening things. I knew what he was doing was wrong, but good do nothing to stop it.



txminipinto said:


> An equine castration should last longer than 3 minutes. They must use an emasculator to crush the cord AND blood vessels leaving it on for at least a minute (rule of thumb is one minute for every year of life). Normal protocol is to lay the horse down with injectables, visualize/clamp first testicle, strip the second, cut the first, and clamp the second before cutting. How long had this vet been out of school? Why was he so nervous? And if he couldn't visualize the vein for injectables, did he at least clip some hair to see it better? I hope Pyro turns out ok, and I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience. NOT all geldings have these issues.


I have seen several other geldings by 2 different vets, and the procedure is like you describe. This vet simply cut him open, pulled out each testical, put the emasculator to crush the cord for maybe 30 sec - 1min. and then pulled it off and went to the next one, sprayed him with antibiotic spray and was done.







Riverdance said:


> My guess is the vet who did the castration is a new vet fresh out of school. I would be calling the vet office and talking with the owner right away to let him know what happened. I would also tell him to expect to foot the bill with the second vet and stop payment on the check you gave the first vet.
> One of the vets we have here keeps hiring fresh out of school vets. I can not tell you how many times they have misdiagnosed one of my horses. The two owners were really good, but they relied on the young vets too often.
> 
> I finally switched vets to a group who have been in practice for years and they do not have new vets on staff all of the time. They are GREAT and I am happy!!
> ...


Unfortuatly this was not a vet fresh out of school which is why I trusted him, he was an older gentleman maybe in his 60's and he is the owner of the vet clinic. He is the same one who we have always worked with and he did everything perfect. it was a horrible time for him to have an ''off'' day. But after he told me it happens sometime, I am thinking this is usually for him







Keri said:


> I would definatly not pay the bill and make them pay the other vets bill. Its only right!! I've only had one bad experience with a vet and unfortunately it cost me my horses life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought about sueing, problem is we signed a form stating we do not hold them responsible for anything that happens to the horse. Didn't think anything about it since I trusted the guy. But will never use him for gelding ever again.

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*UPDATE*

Well the second vet knew what the first vet did was VERY wrong and knew the gause needed to come out. They fully sedated him and since he is so small they were able to put him on a stretcher and take him into an operating table. The pulled out the gause, flushed him out and checked everything inside, and repaired his iniguial ring. He is not sown up completely, as now he has a normal gelding insisicion. Everyone at the clinic was in love with him and he was a very good boy through out. I think he knows everyone is trying to save his life. He is back at home under camera in our stall in the house so we can watch him 24/7 and he is on several medications and stall rest. With a few daily walks to help with swelling.

He is definatly feeling better and not in so much pain. He is pooping and drinking and nibbling at hay, and I gave him a handfull of grain tonight. I feel so terrible for what happened to him and I feel like its my fault for not stopping the vet. But lesson learned, move forward and hope he does not pay for my mistake. After he is all better he will be spoiled rotten (well, more spoiled lol)

Thank you everyone for the prayers and good thoughts. They mean so much to me and Pyro


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## Carolyn R (Dec 12, 2008)

I would also guess they were fresh out of school. My vet was out 1.5 week s ago to geld my 08 colt. She had a semi newbie with her. Oversaw /helped with the entire procedure and since it took a little longer than usual, she gave him frequent small doses of meds to keep him well sedated while they were finishing up.

I would deffinately HIGHLY suggest they pay for any bills that are incured by another vet in relation to this procedure.

Hope he makes a quick recovery, sending good thoughts your way.

Carolyn


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## christina_ski (Dec 12, 2008)

Luckily the second vet was very reasonable with their costs and total it was only $133. As where the first vet just for the gelding was $120!


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## Sarah's Little Blessings (Dec 12, 2008)

OH! OMGosh!! What a horrible scare!!! I am praying for a full recovery!! I have had similar experiences with two other gelding's I have been a witness too. One was my own gelding which the vet decided that he'd do him standing up, and since I was 16 at the time he told me to "run along kid, only someone over 18 can tell me to stop". Well my mom and dad were gone, so I eventually told him to quit and we had to rush poor little Dallas to the Equine hospital. Sometimes I think I did wrong, sometimes I think I did ok. At least Dallas was alright. Then the next one, was a horse we were considering buying but asked the owner if they could have him gelded. (DIFFERENT VET) Gelded without sedation, and killed him, he bled to death, as the little stud jumped away from him and he tore something, and that owner didn't tell us till he was already dead!!!





Right now I am in search of a good gelding vet, the one I useing who was AWESOME, has gotten so busy he can't do geldings any more in the winter, only in summer (when we'd have to deal with flys,ect).

It's a spooky process which is so sad, because the gelding procedure is suppose to be simple, with little complications that could happen. After having stuff like this go on, and now with little Pyro, it always makes me think twice!!

Hugs to you and Pryo, and sending constant prayers that way!


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## eagles ring farm (Dec 12, 2008)

Please do not blame yourself for the stupidity of a vet

you put trust in the fact he knew what he was doing.

You did the best thing you could have getting him

help right away after the first vet did such a horrid job

Hugs to you and Pyro after such a terrible experience.

Hope he's back to himself real soon

Lori


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## Riverdance (Dec 12, 2008)

christina_ski said:


> Luckily the second vet was very reasonable with their costs and total it was only $133. As where the first vet just for the gelding was $120!



Well I would certainly stop payment on the check for the first vet and call his office to tell them why. I would also call the vet board, this guy sounds like he may be having some physical problems (perhaps mentally) and he is making some serious mistakes.

Is he by any channce more of a cattle vet and does very few horses?


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## Irish Hills Farm (Dec 12, 2008)

Christina,

Prayers headed your way for your little Pyro! I hope he makes a full recovery.


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## Gizzmoe (Dec 12, 2008)

I just wanted to say sorry that ended up happening to your boy. But even though you signed that form you still should be able to sue him or get the costs of what you paid him and the other vet back. You in no way signed over your ability to sue over negligance. Cleary this is a case of negligance. If you were to have listened to him the chances of pyro coming out alive would of been slim in my belife. The vet did what he did and instead of fixing seemed to have just ignored the problem and said it would be okay. It's wrong and is negligance. I agree with the other poster on filing to the vet thng about this. Also be sure to get a report frm the vet that fixed pyro saying the damage that was done and what the effects would of been if left liked the inital vet said to.


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## eagles ring farm (Dec 12, 2008)

signing a waiver like that is just what insurance companies want to have their

clients get customers to sign to discourage people from a court suit, as people

think they have given up their right to a law suit


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## albahurst (Dec 12, 2008)

Oh, I am so sorry! My heart hurts for you and your little Pyro. I do pray he will be ok.

I know you have heard alot of advice. I agree it sounds like there may be something going on health-wise with that vet. For his own sake and the sake of other clients, you might really want to consider filing a report to your state's

Veterinary Examiners' office. Just have everything documented and they will check into it.

Give Pyro a smooch from all of us here! Tell him we are rooting for him!

Peggy


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## Margaret (Dec 12, 2008)

Cristina, there was no way you could have known that this procedure was going to turn out bad for Pyro,

with the first vet unless you were a vet yourself..

But you'll know from now on which vet to never use again.. so there is a positive in all of this.

I also would be thrilled that the second vet only charged you 120.00 to identify and correct the problem.




So glad for that too.

Thanks for the update and hope all heals well for Pyro.

I hope Pyro recovers just fine.


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## horsefeather (Dec 12, 2008)

Oh Christina, I am so sorry. Poor Pyro and you!! I sincerely hope everything turns out ok. Will keep you both in my thoughts.

Pam


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## icspots (Dec 12, 2008)

I am sooo sorry for Pyro, I feel your pain. A year ago, I had the vet come out to geld a 32" two year old. This vet OVER sedated, Popper was seizing, I did make a comment and the vet said it was "normal". I've had a lot of horses gelded over the years and have never seen it. So he goes through the procedure and leaves without bringing him out of sedation, I sat there with the horse for over 4 hours before he came to. A day later I noticed that the swelling seemed a bit excessive, so I call the vet and he didn't feel the need to come and check him out, again saying it was "normal", I called them every day for 5 days, and finally he said to come in for antibiotics, the next day I call again and said it is not normal, the swelling is almost up to his front legs! The vet finally comes to check on him, in my opinion freaked out, once again OVER sedated him, the poor little guy was seizing again. he drained the incision, and left. Again I sit with the horse for over 4 hours. Next morning my Popper is dead. The clinic charged me $260 to kill my little horse. What I found out after the fact from a vet tech at another clinic was this. Just like MD's they have malpractice insurance, you can refuse to pay the bill, and they are still covered. In my case they should have paid for the horse, small consolation, but not as insulting as charging me to do it! What makes this case particularly sad is that this vet was raised around small horses, his parents have a pony farm, and I think he over sedated because he was actually afraid of this little 32" horse! Bottom line, Riverdance is right, don't pay the vet clinic for putting your little horse through heck!


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## MinisOutWest (Dec 12, 2008)

I am so sorry you- and him have to go thru this, but like you said, many lessons learned. My thoughts and prayers are for you and your little guy, I told all my boys in the barn what happened, I think they understood and just cringed, ha ha ha. since all of them just got gelded 3 weeks ago !! Hang in there!!!


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## RockinSMiniature (Dec 12, 2008)

Will keep you and Pyro in our prayer..

((HUGS))


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## topnotchminis (Dec 12, 2008)

Hope he recovers fast! Good luck, and best wishes!


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## mmmorgans (Dec 12, 2008)

Prayers for a full recovery for your Pyro. This is horrible - no horse should ever have to go through what Pyro went through. You really need to pursue this issue with the state board - that vet is incompetent and is going to cause the death of other animals if he is not stopped now.

Thank Heavens you found another vet right away - and Pyro is on the road to recovery.


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## Miniv (Dec 12, 2008)

Riverdance said:


> christina_ski said:
> 
> 
> > Luckily the second vet was very reasonable with their costs and total it was only $133. As where the first vet just for the gelding was $120!
> ...



I was thinking along the same line as Riverdance!

Your poor little guy! I'm so glad you got him to a second vet..........And no, YOU should not feel guilty. The guilt should be on the first vet who botched up a SIMPLE procedure!


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## Genie (Dec 12, 2008)

Wonderful news, hope things keep going well.

I am so happy for little Pyro.

I would really be handing the vet your bill from the second vet and asking him how much of it he feels he should be responsible for?

Word of mouth goes a loooooong way!


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## Minimor (Dec 12, 2008)

I am sorry to hear that poor Pyro had to go through such an ordeal. Sounds like he's doing better now, and I pray that will continue.

Since the vet is older and obviously not straight out of vet school then he's either stupid, totally unfeeling, or senile... I would not pay his vet bill and I would report him to the state vet association--and would probably present him with the 2nd vet bill as well. He should be ashamed of himself.

"kicking and fighting" is the best way I know of to cause a hernia in a horse that otherwise wouldn't have a problem with gelding. I know people that have had it happen when they tied the horse down & gelded without any drugs--as far as I'm concerned that's about as cruel as you can get. Sadly, there are still people that have their horses gelded this way. I learned just recently that there are still farriers around that will also geld horses, and I'm thinking there are probably no drugs being used in these cases. <shudder>

I have shut down a gelding procedure when the horse didn't respond properly to the anesthetic, and I have demanded IV banamine for a horse that was topped up with only Ketamine, no rompun, and so had terrible muscle spasms--which are extremely painful. You could see that agony in his eyes, and you could sure tell when the banamine took effect! I no longer use that vet for my geldings--I've switched to one that is much better with drug dosage and administration, and better at the gelding procedure as well.


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## Royal Crescent (Dec 13, 2008)

I am so sorry that this happened to your boy



Hopefully, you are past the worst. One note on the form you signed saying you would not hold him accountable for complications.

#1 This would presume that the vet did not cause the complication through his mismanagement. This was not just an infection, or bleeding, etc that can happen. He made the horse suffer without proper anesthesia, then allowed the gut to come through.

#2 Permits are an informed consent that do not really protect the vet if he did wrong, but the absence of a permit would hurt him. I work in the medical field where this is true and I am sure that there are similar considerations hereI hope everything goes weel.

Barb


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## christina_ski (Dec 13, 2008)

Well I went in the stall with him late last night and and was seeing if he wanted to eat, he ate a good 2-3 handfulls of grain. Taking it slow with his grain intake. He is going to be fed 4 small meals a day down instead of only 2 big one 2x a day. He appears to be doing well this morning and is up and moving around. He looks like is is drinking and has been eating a little of his hay.

So we made it throught the night, which is a big accomplishment for him. Now just have to take it day by day and hope that his improvement continues.



He gets to go on a walk later this morning and eat some good grass and see all his friends and tell them he is ok. He has never been away from his sister Diva since he was born, but they are both doing ok. I think they know its for the best they are not together right now. And I know he can't wait to be better enough to go out and just be a horse again.


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## Reble (Dec 13, 2008)

so glad of the update, I am still thinking of you and Pyro


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## eagles ring farm (Dec 13, 2008)

Thanks for the update

we have been thinking of you and your Pyro

praying he makes a rapid recovery now that he has had

proper attention from a qualified vet.


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## Miss Gracie (Dec 13, 2008)

I hope that Pyro is feeling his oats soon!

Keeping you and your horse in my thoughts and prayers.


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## AppyLover2 (Dec 13, 2008)

I didn't read everyone's response so maybe someone else already said it but, my first thought was - if this is an established vet who you have had success with before.....it almost sounds to me like he (the vet) was on something, maybe booze or drugs or something that caused him to do such a horrible job. I'd certainly be checking him out with other people who use him, or who "used" to use him and see if something like that might be going on. I know there's a vet in our area who is very well known for his drinking problem.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 13, 2008)

As others have said that waiver was just routine in case something went wrong- stuff happens is what it is saying...like if Pyro had had an unforeseeable allergy to the anaesthetic, or a weak heart...something unforeseeable but fatal, I sign one every time my horses go in for gelding or a dog for spaying/surgery etc, it is normal and in NO way means you cannot sue for total negligence.

You need to stop the cheque and inform the Vet that you intend to make a complaint against his practise, and you need a written statement from the second Vet...it is unlikely that one professional will come out and accuse another of negligence, but you can ask for a complete rundown on the procedures that they carried out...none of these should have been necessary if the Vet had done his job properly.

I hate to put this on you, Christina, as I know you are now just so grateful Pyro is OK you probably just want to forget this happened but think of someone coming along behind you now having this happen to their kids pet pony- bad enough that it happened to you, but think if there were six and seven year olds involved and people that know no better than to trust this Vet...he cannot be allowed to get away with this, it is not right, you have to do something.

I am so glad Pyro is now OK, and I hope he continues to improve, but he never should have had to go through any of this in the first place.

My Vet is greased lightening and she takes up to half an hour and we think that is quick!!!

And she uses really light anaesthesia, no more than the colts need, but always enough, they are coming round as she finishes up, but they always are flat out on the floor all the way through!!


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## tnovak (Dec 13, 2008)

What a horrible ordeal for you both! Prayers for a quick recovery.


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## SaddleTrail (Dec 13, 2008)

So very happy that Pyro is doing better and hope he makes a full recovery.

This happening just reinforced the thought of my not getting my mini gelded. He is almost 12 and I am not taking any chances with him what so ever. Ive never worked with a horse vet and my dog vet wont recommend anyone.

Good luck give him lots of lovings!


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## RockRiverTiff (Dec 13, 2008)

I was really glad to see the positive updates this morning! I have two colts that will be gelded next spring, and my old vet is no longer doing geldings, so anticipating that I will have to use a new vet and reading stories like this one really has me paranoid. Do not let that vet get away with what he did to Pyro! I would send a copy of your second vet bill to the first clinic along with your complaint. Best wishes for Pyro's continued recovery.


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## Reijel's Mom (Dec 13, 2008)

SaddleTrail said:


> So very happy that Pyro is doing better and hope he makes a full recovery.This happening just reinforced the thought of my not getting my mini gelded. He is almost 12 and I am not taking any chances with him what so ever. Ive never worked with a horse vet and my dog vet wont recommend anyone.
> 
> Good luck give him lots of lovings!



I hope since you have a horse now you do find a good horse vet soon, you just never know when you are going to need one. Could be in the middle of the night! 12 is not that old to geld, by the way, and things like what happened in this post are very rare, but obviously that's completely your choice to do what you think is best for your little guy.


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## Taylor Jo (Dec 13, 2008)

Gizzmoe said:


> I just wanted to say sorry that ended up happening to your boy. But even though you signed that form you still should be able to sue him or get the costs of what you paid him and the other vet back. You in no way signed over your ability to sue over negligance. Cleary this is a case of negligance. If you were to have listened to him the chances of pyro coming out alive would of been slim in my belife. The vet did what he did and instead of fixing seemed to have just ignored the problem and said it would be okay. It's wrong and is negligance. I agree with the other poster on filing to the vet thng about this. Also be sure to get a report frm the vet that fixed pyro saying the damage that was done and what the effects would of been if left liked the inital vet said to.



I TOTALLY AGREE with GIzzome and Eagles Ring Farm. Don't be afraid to stand up for your rights. I believe they take the same oath as a regular Doctor's. "Do no harm to the patient." I'm glad to hear Pyro is doing better. I hope he continues to improve. God Bless, TJ


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## Minimor (Dec 13, 2008)

SaddleTrail said:


> So very happy that Pyro is doing better and hope he makes a full recovery.This happening just reinforced the thought of my not getting my mini gelded. He is almost 12 and I am not taking any chances with him what so ever. Ive never worked with a horse vet and my dog vet wont recommend anyone.
> 
> Good luck give him lots of lovings!


I thought that gelding was a condition required by the rescue when you got your horse??? Will the rescue not follow up to make sure that you've actually gelded him as you agreed you would? Here the rescues do follow up, and if the animal isn't gelded/neutered/spayed as per the agreement, they take that animal back.

I do hope that you find a horse vet soon; it doesn't pay to wait until you need the services of a horse vet to start looking for one!

As said, bad experiences--such as Christina and Pyro's--are actually few and far between. Given the hundreds and hundreds of horses that are gelded in this country alone each year the few that go wrong in some way make up a very small percentage. I would not use this bad experience as an excuse to not geld a horse! Nor would I use his 12 years of age as an excuse.


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## christina_ski (Dec 13, 2008)

Hey all,

Update tonight. He is doing very well, he is still pooping and peeing and he is still eating well. He is still getting small feeding of grain and is now getting a good bit of hay. He is feeling likes his old self again, still has some swelling and soreness, but he would with just a normal gelding procedure. The weather is getting bad with storms tomorrow and winter weather all week, so he will have to stay in his stall. But we will move his sister in with him to keep him company as long as they behave themselves.






I just wanted to add this, for those who saw my experience with Pyro and thought about not gelding anymore, It was just one of those freak things because of a vets neglagence. Alot of boys are happier as geldings, and are just not meant to be stallions (Conformation wise or mentally). And IMO geldings are the best show horse you could want, no hormones etc to deal with. Trust me my main show horse is a filly





Christina


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## StarRidgeAcres (Dec 13, 2008)

christina_ski said:


> Hey all,
> Update tonight. He is doing very well, he is still pooping and peeing and he is still eating well. He is still getting small feeding of grain and is now getting a good bit of hay. He is feeling likes his old self again, still has some swelling and soreness, but he would with just a normal gelding procedure. The weather is getting bad with storms tomorrow and winter weather all week, so he will have to stay in his stall. But we will move his sister in with him to keep him company as long as they behave themselves.
> 
> 
> ...


Christina, So glad he's still improving. What a relief. I also think your comment about this being a freak situation and not to avoid gelding because of this is great! Horrible things can happen with any procedure - on animals or people. There are neglegent (sp?) "professionals" everywhere.


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## eagles ring farm (Dec 13, 2008)

So glad to hear he is doing well

hope it continues and a quick recovery for you all

so sorry you and your Pyro had such a bad experience


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## Reijel's Mom (Dec 13, 2008)

VERY happy to hear the good update!!


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## dreaminmini (Dec 13, 2008)

I just noticed this thread tonight. I had to read it all the way through. I'm so sorry this happened to your boy. But very happy to hear he is improving with each update. I hope he will be 100% on no time flat. I hope you do report this vet and in no way pay for his "services" or lack their of. I'm happy you found a good vet to fix him up. Are they close enough to you, what about them taking over, they also seem reasonable in the cost department.


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## SaddleTrail (Dec 13, 2008)

Minimor said:


> SaddleTrail said:
> 
> 
> > So very happy that Pyro is doing better and hope he makes a full recovery.This happening just reinforced the thought of my not getting my mini gelded. He is almost 12 and I am not taking any chances with him what so ever. Ive never worked with a horse vet and my dog vet wont recommend anyone.
> ...


Yes thats what the lady told me. That she wanted me to have him gelded. I asked her to send me the paperwork on him so I can make sure its in there. She sent me a email, one of their board members is a officer and he was shot in the line of duty. He is doing ok, but she will send them as soon as she can. So I am still waiting.

I did ask the girl across the street who she uses and she gave me the name of her vet. Im going to make a appointment to have her come out and give him a good health check. To be blunt, if it does not say I have to have him gelded, I wont do it, I am to scared something will happen. If I do have to do it, I will, just have to find the best vet.


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## bluerogue (Dec 14, 2008)

Saddletrail, bad experiences with gelding procedures are really quite rare. Pyro's problem was his vet is an idiot, and should never have done the procedure. Thankfully, Pyro appears to be coming out of his experience well, and I will keep him in my prayer that his recovery continues to go well, and there are no residual effects from the way he was gelded.

I had a coming 3 year old gelded in October. My vet is very good, and was concerned because of his age. Houdini came out of it very well, although he had a LOT of swelling.

I think you might want to consider getting your boy gelded, as he really will be happier as a gelding. However, I do think you have a good idea in finding a good vet to do it. Now would be a good time, or at least before spring and the hormones start flowing again. You may want to consider hauling him somewhere if necessary. I had a 3 year old colt gelded last year at a friend's farm (we had a gelding party), and he did fine hauling afterwards. I waited several hours before we left though, to make sure he would be able to balance in the trailer. We went slow, and he bounced off the trailer at home like nothing happened.

The second colt did have some complications with his procedure, but they weren't related to having his jewels removed. Apparently he had extra valves in his neck veins, and the vets had a devil of a time getting his IV's in. They had to try both sides of his neck, and poor boy was swollen from throatlatch to shoulder for about a week after. Took them over an hour just to finally get the IV in. The actual removal took much less time. This was with vets from UCD, by the way.

Find a good vet, and you will lessen your chances of anything going wrong. Also, if you can haul him to a facility to do the procedure, even if something does go wrong, they are better prepared to quickly counteract the problem.

I certainly wouldn't let Pyro's bad experience turn me off of gelding forever. Gelding is something that can really make a difference in a stallions life.


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## SaddleTrail (Dec 14, 2008)

The farrier came out today and told me he thought he was a good weight, maybe start cutting down a bit on his pellets or he would end up overweight.

When I measured him he was 41 around his girth and 42 inches long. The website I found that calculates his weight for you said he would be around 219lbs. At 33 inches tall, is that a good weight?

I dont have a problem having him gelded, just so many horror stories and problems when having it done. If something bad were to happen to him I would die.heheh

He is my baby and means everything to me.


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## Miniv (Dec 14, 2008)

Saddletrail, The experience that Christina had with Pyro was very rare and unusual......caused by a bad vet. The procedure for gelding is actually very simple. If you haven't established a vet that you feel comfortable with yet, I would recommend talking to people and getting references from them. If you get the same vet named by three or more people with positive reports, check him out. Our current vet, we literally interviewed first before "hiring" him.


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## thegrandzapper (Dec 14, 2008)

i hope he's feeling better velma


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## Mercysmom (Dec 14, 2008)

christina_ski said:


> I just wanted to add this, for those who saw my experience with Pyro and thought about not gelding anymore, It was just one of those freak things because of a vets neglagence. Alot of boys are happier as geldings, and are just not meant to be stallions (Conformation wise or mentally). And IMO geldings are the best show horse you could want, no hormones etc to deal with. Trust me my main show horse is a filly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad to hear Pyro is mending - I feel for you both.





Just a little story on the competence of "professionals" - be they veterinarians or doctors... one must ALWAYS advocate for oneself and those around you. _*Don't mean to go off the thread but as horse owners and parents, sometimes we do know best as we know our animals and family members best and hopefully my story can help someone else.*_

I am a type 1 diabetic and with my first son (now 18), when he was delivered, he was put on my chest for "bonding" and the staff "took care" of stuff. What they did not know or did not tell me, was that a baby born to a diabetic mom will have low blood sugar after delivery as they are used to a sugary environment in utero and their immature systems need time to adjust. The delivery was a horror story as well - two days of prostaglandin gel and three days of pitocin...by day two on the Pitocin I was begging for a c-section and they would not do it, even though Andy's heart was doing odd things. :arg!

Andy was taken to the nursery some time after delivery where apparently his sugar crashed to 20 (normal for me is 70-140) and he had seizures. Imagine my horror when a neonatologist (I had no idea who he was or what was going on) came into my room to tell me Andy was seizing and his sugar was low and they were not sure if he had brain damage. They were trying to fix the low blood sugar and finally got him stabilized. He ended up with a learning disability and I know it was due to the "professionals" handling us at the time.

When my second son Benjamin was delivered in a different state, I relayed my story to my new OB-GYN and he was horrified of the details of the induction, delivery and Andy's condition. We decided that once Ben took his first breaths, he would immediately go to the NICU to make sure his blood sugar was stable. I had an A1C of 4.9 so it was not like he was in a sugary environment in utero but something about my chemistry also caused Ben's bG to drop after birth. The staff and OB-GYN said yes, I was right and they were on top of it so Ben did not go through what his brother did.

Don't be afraid to question the professionals and if you don't like the situation at hand, tell them so. You have hired them to provide a service and it stinks that if a contractor messes up on your house you can sue but if a medical professional messes up, we are often "stuck." Luckily, I am blessed with a great veterinarian and Cornell U if we need them.

Benjamin has been showing tendencies of narcolepsy for two years and he was not happy with the doctor's treatment of him and he told her so - he politely asked for his records and said "I am never coming here again. I did not need to sit here for three hours waiting for you so you could tell me I needed more testing done. You could have called me on the phone and told me that." We have been trying to get an answer for a year and after extensive testing, the doctor said "You can't have narcolepsy as you are not in your 20s and that's when it comes out. We will have to do more tests." Ben waited four different times and every appointment lasted 3 hours - three hours of us waiting in a room for someone to come and see us. I hope I taught him well to be his own advocate.

May Pyro continue to heal and may he get to graze with his sister very soon.

Denise


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## Taylor Jo (Dec 14, 2008)

So glad to hear Pyro is doing better. I have 2 boy's that need gelded in the next few weeks and MAN after reading this it is down right scary. I mean I read the post and I know it's rare but it's still scary. NOW, I want to have a DARN good talk with my vet. He's new to me and SEEMS to be a good vet and so far has been very good. BUT, he's ALWAYS in a hurry. I don't want him to rush it just cause he's in a darned hurry. He forgets to tell you instructions cause he's in such a hurry and he rushes you. Other wise he's VERY good. The horses seem to like him. He's always right on with their diagnosis. He's very empahtic with my them. I'm just REALLY scared now. If anything happened to those two little boy's I'd just be besides myself. Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. Just scared. I am happy Pyro is on his way to healing, that is good news. TJ


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## Reijel's Mom (Dec 14, 2008)

Taylor Jo said:


> So glad to hear Pyro is doing better. I have 2 boy's that need gelded in the next few weeks and MAN after reading this it is down right scary. I mean I read the post and I know it's rare but it's still scary. NOW, I want to have a DARN good talk with my vet. He's new to me and SEEMS to be a good vet and so far has been very good. BUT, he's ALWAYS in a hurry. I don't want him to rush it just cause he's in a darned hurry. He forgets to tell you instructions cause he's in such a hurry and he rushes you. Other wise he's VERY good. The horses seem to like him. He's always right on with their diagnosis. He's very empahtic with my them. I'm just REALLY scared now. If anything happened to those two little boy's I'd just be besides myself. Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. Just scared. I am happy Pyro is on his way to healing, that is good news. TJ


I feel just this way anytime I take one of my animals in for elective surgery (such as spaying/nuetering, dentals, etc), as there are always risks involved. Still, I know overall, I'm making the best decision for my animals, and that gives me a lot of comfort. If I'd left my little horse intact he wouldn't have the life he does now, with the buddies he does now. He gets to be a HORSE for the rest of his life. Well worth the risks involved.


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## Dorrie & Frank (Dec 15, 2008)

I am so sorry this has happened to you. Do not blame yourself - when you go in to trust a professional you expect them to not hurry and to do things correctly. Also, no waiver can have you waive your right to sue a professional for their own professional negligence. You can waive the right to make a claim that is related to normal possible complications from a properly performed procedure but not negligence - The inguinal ring should not have been hit.


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