# I'm at my wit's end!



## KanoasDestiny (Jan 14, 2012)

Last Monday we had our propane tank filled. It was at 20% and is now at 80%. Starting early Tuesday morning our furnace started blowing in cold air instead of warm air. We have vented heating throughout the house and our thermostat is set at a constant 65 degrees. (Our furnace is 21 months old and has never given us a problem.) The problem seems to mostly be in the early morning hours when it is coldest outside. Then when the sun comes up, the heat will kick on and warm air will come through the vents. I also noticed that our stove burners are burning with orange in the flame.

Our Propane guy came out on Wednesday and checked our tank/appliances. He could not find a problem, and came back out on Thursday to change the tank Regulator. He mentioned that another customer who just had their tank filled was also complaining about the same issue, but that they couldn't consider it a bad batch of gas unless more customers started having problems. He also said that the stove burners were normal, even though it has just started. Yesterday we paid $140 for Hvac to come out and tell us that nothing was wrong with the furnace/thermostat, except that it was dirty and the pilot flame was almost all orange. In fact, the tech had to call and talk to two of his co-workers because he had never seen so much orange in a flame before.

So now I have Hvac blaming the propane, and the Propane people blaming the furnace. It has been almost a week and I'm getting tired of waking up in a cold house. Have you ever encountered or heard of a problem like this before? I don't know where to turn, or what to have looked at, or if this could possibly be a dangerous situation.

This is what the furnace pilot looks like...







The stove burners...






The dryer furnace...











Any advice is greatly appreciated!


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## Katiean (Jan 14, 2012)

We had propane for about 8 years and never had a problem like that. I would think that with both the stove and furnace getting the problem at the same time I would hardly think it could be the equipment. What about your water heater? Is it propane too? Is it doing the same thing? I do think I would push the propane company to test the gas. If someone else that got filled up had the same problem I think I would be all over the propane company to fix the problem. All of your stuff doesn't go bad at the same time. Also at the same time as someone else. I vote for it being the gas.


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you for your reply. Our water heater is electric, so it isn't affected by the propane. This is just so frustrating because the propane people don't want to correct the problem.


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## Lizzie (Jan 14, 2012)

Have them check everything again. Looks like air is getting into the system. In ordinary gas stoves/burners etc., the gas company many told me that orangey flames, mean air is getting in somewhere.

Lizzie


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## Katiean (Jan 14, 2012)

But how could it affect the furnace, stove and the dryer all at the same time when she said that it was all fine before the fill up?

But how could it affect the furnace, stove and the dryer all at the same time when she said that it was all fine before the fill up?


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jan 14, 2012)

I don't know what the weather is like where you live but many years ago we used propane and we often struggled with poor flames and no heat just when you needed it the most because when the temperatures drop the propane gets thicker and won't flow properly. Could it be cold enough to be causing issues there? Also it can ice up at the regulator if the temp is below freezing, propane gas is quite sensitive to below freezing temps. Thats the only things that I can think of hope you find your problem.


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 14, 2012)

The propane guy did some kind of test checking for pressure, but I don't know if it also tested for air in the tank/line.

We live in the high desert and our lows have been in the twenties. This year is so mild so far compared to last. But last year and this year (up until this last week) we haven't had problems with any of the appliances. I'm thinking that either the gas has too much water in it, or the ratio of contents must be off in the tank. :-/


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## Sonya (Jan 15, 2012)

We've been using propane for many years and never had a problem like that. And we get way way below freezing in Michigan. The only thing I can think of is air is definately getting in there...and maybe as the day warms up abit, so does the air causing it to expand and make a differance as to why your heat will blow warm air later in the day? I would be very frustrated...and angry...propane isn't cheap in these parts. Month of December I spent over $1500 filling up 2 pigs.


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## Debby - LB (Jan 15, 2012)

Since they already replaced your regulator and checked the air fuel ratio if this were only affecting your stove I'd say clean out the burner orifices but since it's all your appliances (I think) you have a problem in your lines. Once soot builds up in your lines (yes a new fill up will get it moving along) you need to get it blown out. Also running a humidifier in your house will cause the same symptoms. 

What we had happen to us was soot build up in our lines. "Orange" means sediment, soot, or dust has loosened in the pipes and is running through the pipes and burning off when the gas is on. Flames like this will cause sooting on your pots and pans too, they'll all get black soot on the bottoms and sides. 

This happened to us years ago, also after a fill up and after firing up the furnace for the first time that winter. We got the "it's not out problem it's theirs" run around as well. Turns out we had a lot of excess soot build up in our lines. There is a part on the front of our furnace where the lines come up from the floor before going into the heater, close to where we light our pilot light. This part is about 6" long and is corrugated looking and flexible, it was all full of sooty sediment. We had to replace that and then blow compressed air through the lines.


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## Manyspots (Jan 15, 2012)

Have propane dealer inject methanol into tank. Dealer should know how much. If water in tank.this will solve it. We use 2 gallons in a 500 gallon tank.


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 15, 2012)

Thank you everyone. Hopefully the hvac will be back out first thing in the morning to make sure there isnt soot in the line. The Propane guy did a pressure check for air flow, but better to be safe than sorry. We went to the store and bought a carbon monoxide reader, just to make sure we aren't breathing in gas. Hopefully the propane guy will be out tomorrow too, I'm stressing out so bad.


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## Manyspots (Jan 15, 2012)

Be sure to ask about adding methanol. We own a propane company in Iowa. Good luck!


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 15, 2012)

Thank you so much for responding.

Is moisture in the tank common? He mentioned that it might be a possibility but acted like it was highly unlikely. I just find it fishy that the problem started afer the fill up, and that someone else called them saying they had the same problem after we did. I'm terrified it may end up damaging our brand new appliances.


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## Debby - LB (Jan 16, 2012)

water in the tank would make the symptoms you described..."blowing cold air in the morning when it's the coldest outside" from that description alone the gas company should have tested for that first. Water in the tank from two winters before is what caused our soot/sediment problems. Once all was cleaned and blown out none of our appliances had any damage done to them. Hope you get this taken care of.


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 16, 2012)

We have a second hvac technician out right now and he has tore our heater apart. He also can't find an issue (the sun is out) but he told us that there's a green light we need to watch for when we have the problem. If it flashes, then they'll replace the sensor. He said the 'yellow' flame isn't good but it also isn't bad. :-(

The propane guy talked to the hvac guy, and said he'll get ahold of some methanol and be out within a day or two. He said the other people who had a problem turned out to be their regulator. Ours was replaced, so our problem has to be something else.


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## JennyB (Jan 16, 2012)

KanoasDestiny said:


> Last Monday we had our propane tank filled. It was at 20% and is now at 80%. Starting early Tuesday morning our furnace started blowing in cold air instead of warm air. We have vented heating throughout the house and our thermostat is set at a constant 65 degrees. (Our furnace is 21 months old and has never given us a problem.) The problem seems to mostly be in the early morning hours when it is coldest outside. Then when the sun comes up, the heat will kick on and warm air will come through the vents. I also noticed that our stove burners are burning with orange in the flame.
> 
> Our Propane guy came out on Wednesday and checked our tank/appliances. He could not find a problem, and came back out on Thursday to change the tank Regulator. He mentioned that another customer who just had their tank filled was also complaining about the same issue, but that they couldn't consider it a bad batch of gas unless more customers started having problems. He also said that the stove burners were normal, even though it has just started. Yesterday we paid $140 for Hvac to come out and tell us that nothing was wrong with the furnace/thermostat, except that it was dirty and the pilot flame was almost all orange. In fact, the tech had to call and talk to two of his co-workers because he had never seen so much orange in a flame before.
> 
> So now I have Hvac blaming the propane, and the Propane people blaming the furnace. It has been almost a week and I'm getting tired of waking up in a cold house. Have you ever encountered or heard of a problem like this before? I don't know where to turn, or what to have looked at, or if this could possibly be a dangerous situation.


Hi,

If your propane has gone that quickly, then your tank is leaking and you need to get them back out. They have a tester. I would be freaking if in one week we lost 60% as much as it costs us to fill our tank which is over $1000.

Your burners should NOT be orange and YES it can be dangerous! There is a problem somewhere and it needs to be addressed ASAP..Do you smell any propane anywhere else than when you first light the flame?

Sounds like a problem with the tank and the furnace. If Mel is not at home I always watch all that they are doing and ask questions...don't be afraid to ask questions..



....The flame should NOT be all orange!..and they are no "bad" batches of propane that is not possible and doesn't ever happen. Do you have a warranty on your furnance? Something is wrong and I wouldn't pay a dime more, they just need to fix the problems!

Good Luck,

Blessings,

Jenny


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## Marty (Jan 16, 2012)

You do not want to mix methanol in the propane!

You are not getting enough oxygen with the flame and that is what causes this issue. You need to totally dust out your burners using light air pressure.


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 16, 2012)

Jenny, we were at 20% (not completely empty) when they came out and filled us up to 80%. We still have almost all of it left.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. Our lowest temps have been in the top twenties, but it's weird that the heating problem seems to only be in the morning, leading us to believe that moisture in the tank is freezing the regulator affecting the airflow. The hvac guy said the heater is completely clean, and is running almost at a brand new out-of-the-box level. There isn't any soot yet and we want to keep it that way.


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## Debby - LB (Jan 17, 2012)

> turned out to be their regulator. Ours was replaced, so our problem has to be something else.


Not necessarily, there have been numerous times a newly installed part was no better than the one taken off and had to be replaced. btw if you do not mind me asking what part of the U.S. are you in? how cold does it get there.. is it even possible for it to freeze if there were moisture in the lines? I don't think I'd want an additive put in the tank unless they test and pinpoint that there is water there. I'm hoping you can get a definitive answer, I know you must be worried sick with it.

 

edited to add, I see you replied with the temperature. I agree with what you said, I think I'd bring up switching out the regulator.


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## Manyspots (Jan 17, 2012)

Only a liscensed insured propane dealer should do the methanol. It isnt often that moisture gets in the tank but has happened. The regulator is the obvious. We are nearing 50 years in the propane business for home heating, agriculture & commercial use. keep on your propane dealer also. He should be a member of the National Propane. Also be sure your furnace company is insured & bonded. Wish we were closer to help you! Hope resolved soon.


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## Manyspots (Jan 17, 2012)

You are doing the right thing contacting professionals. They know your situation and I hope help you soon.


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 17, 2012)

We checked the furnace for the possible switch/circuit failure the guy told us about and the green light never faultered. :-(

Is there a way for the propane to be checked or tested which doesn't involve pressure testing (already done)? I find it hard to believe the new regulator would also be bad? I guess what I'm asking is, is there a way to test the actual contents inside the tank?


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 17, 2012)

Sorry, double posted.


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## Manyspots (Jan 17, 2012)

Ocassionally a company can get in a faulty regulator. We have has some over the years that needed replaced. Very possible. Some times a tank can ger condensation causing water in tank. your dealer can contact his supplier to see if any problems at the pipeline. they put additives in there so water in propane unusual. would be many end users affected if so. Since I cant legally give advice here I can only share our experiences. we would probaby do both new regulator & additive.


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## KanoasDestiny (Jan 17, 2012)

Thank you Manyspots, you've been extremely helpful. Last night we didn't hit as low temps, and I woke up to a nice warm house.  Funny how you always take things like that for granted, and then when you don't have it, you realize just how important it is.


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