# Question on Dewormers



## KanoasDestiny (Mar 27, 2006)

By now, everyone knows that I am new to minis and getting ready to get my first weanling. I went shopping yesterday for most of the stuff I will need. At the feed store, I had already picked out EquiMax and Safe Guard, but was having trouble finding a third type to rotate the other two with. I told the woman that I was getting a mini and she went and picked out Quest gel, highly recommending it. I was looking at another one that was out of stock (I think it was Strongid or something like that), but went ahead and purchased the Quest gel.

I was searching through past postings on this forum about the dosage to give to young minis at different stages of their life, when I stumbled on a posting where members were saying NO QUEST PRODUCTS. Have I made a mistake?

Also, how do you figure out how much to give, as the syringe is in 250lb settings? I do not want to overdose.


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## Hosscrazy (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes - you are very correct! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not use the Quest on your mini. If you still have your receipt, please return it to your feedstore.

I'm in So. Cal. and I rotate with Ivermectin and Safeguard. While they do have a good safety margin, I feel more comfortable premeasuring the amount I use (250 lbs.) into a smaller syringe, and then giving it to my horses - that way I do not have to worry about the syringe slipping, etc.

Liz R.


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## Reble (Mar 27, 2006)

No Rumour Quest Killed my Gelding December 2005

Please Read




:

http://www.equinenet.org/ernet/worms.html


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 27, 2006)

Unless you are using the five day safeguard purge PLEASE do not use Fenbendazole( Safeguard) as a "rotating " wormer.

I do not "rotate" per se, at all, what I do is use a different wormer to do a different job, at different times of year.

If this is exactly what you are doing, I'm sorry, excuse me, but Fenbendazole is very limited in it's abilities as an ordinary wormer, and the system builds up resistance to it fast.

Ivermectin for all the usual worms.

Praziquantel for Tapeworms (in a combo with Ivermectin in Equimax)

Fenbendazole at the time of year recommended for your area, at the dosage recommended by your Vet, for FIVE days to get rid of encysted small strongyles.

Moxidectin (Quest) will also kill encysteds but unfortunately can also kill the horse- although the fatalities have been largely in Minis I have Minis that have had no reaction to it, and known be supposed to be the cause of death in LARGE horse- so, No Moxidectin, please, we are Minis!!





Reble, I am so sorry, again, your boy was lovely. Did you ever get any joy?? :no:


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## Reble (Mar 27, 2006)

Reble, I am so sorry, again, your boy was lovely. Did you ever get any joy?? :no:

They paid (Quest) for the Vet Bill about $350.00

Dr. Jacobs was to look into why, in Canada our insert is different than U.S.

We do not have this warning on our inserts.

WARNINGS

Extreme caution should be used when administering the product to foals, young and miniature horses, as overdosage may result in serious adverse reactions. Do not use in sick, debilitated, or underweight animals. Do not use in horses or ponies intended for food

Revised March 2003

Just called again to Dr. Jacobs from Quest, left message, he will be away till Thursday.

Have found a new gelding and just bought a new colt, for future breeding in about 3 years.

Never forget, put I am glad to eduacate others on my experience with Quest. :new_shocked:

Thanks for asking



:


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## KanoasDestiny (Mar 27, 2006)

Reble, so very sorry to hear about your horse. Thats just aweful. I started wondering when I was reading people's warnings on Quest, and knew I'd better ask. The current owner of the filly contacted me and also said NO QUEST. I'm glad I asked, and didn't just use it. Warning to others out there....feed stores don't always know best!!!!

Thanks for the tips Hosscrazy and Rabbitsfizz...I too have heard good things about the EquiMax and Safe Guard, but heard that I should have another kind in there as well to kill what the other two don't. However, I hadn't heard that Safe Guard is best if used for 5 days. Good info to know, as I want to kill the larve at an early stage. This is 100% safe? Also, Reble sent me a very informative article on dewormers and it mentions probiotics be used while deworming. Does anyone else use these?

I know Jennifer told me already, but it just seems like so much info to take in at once...Zoey will already be current on deworming when I get her, but since she will be only four months, how will I know how much to give her during her next worming? I know it goes by weight (Assuming no one doubles the recommended dosage), but how do I divide the 250 pounds? I feel like such a dunse!



:


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## rabbitsfizz (Apr 30, 2006)

Fenbendazole (Safeguard/Panacur) is so safe you would have to drown the horse in it to do any harm!!!

To weigh Zoey you can just take her into your Vets and put her on the scales in the office- that will give you a very good idea where to start. Take a weight tape in with you and juggle with the tape until the weight on the tape and the actual weight of the horse agree, then make a note of how tight the tape is and where exactly it was placed on the horse.

If you then weigh her once a year on the scales the weight tape will do in between.

The syringe in which the paste is sold will be graded in 50lbs - she will probably weigh more than this when you get her, but if you are worried about over dosing, squeeze out the amount you are going to uses, mix it with a little grain and honey and just pop the ball in her feed or even give it to her as a treat. That way you will be sure she has only got what you intended to give her.

Ivermectin is also very safe, though- even if the plunger broke and you gave the whole tube, the worst that would happen would be a mild colic if she had a lot of worms, and a VERY messy stall the next day (Been there, done that, still washing the walls, twenty years later!!!!



: )


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## Colagirl (Apr 30, 2006)

WHEN IS THE BEST TIME TO WORM FOR BOTS AND TAPEWORMS AND WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO USE??


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## rabbitsfizz (Apr 30, 2006)

Praziquantel for Tapeworms, Ivermectin for Bots.

Since the time to worm varies so much from area to area (depends a lot on the weather) I would ask your Vet or contact an Agricultural Agent in your area.


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## horseplay (Aug 2, 2006)

Hi, When you say "Fenbendazole for 5 days" are you giving the normal dose for the horses weight for all five days? I have always just rotated it. I had talked to my vet about a routine and she didn't mentioned not using this.



Thanks


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## rabbitsfizz (Aug 2, 2006)

In the States and Canada fenbendazole is recommended at twice the normal rate for five days- in Europe we dose at the normal rate for five days.

I have checked this with the manufacturer.

"Rotating" per se has few benefits whatsoever- what you really do need to do is give the right wormer fore the right worm problem at the right time of year- This:-

Spring

Five day Fenbendazole

eight weeks later Ivermectin

Again Ivermectin

Until Fall

Five day Fenbendazole

ten days after last Fenbendazole give Ivermectin/Praziquantel combo to get Tapeworms.

After first good frost give Ivermectin to get Bots.

Resume every eight weeks worming.

Ivermectin, Fenbendazole and Praziquantel are really all the chemicals you need.

Once a year, preferably in Spring, have a Faecal count done to see what is going on.

Tapeworms do not show up too well in faecal counts- only the eggs at certain stages show, so if in any doubt, deworm for them


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## horseplay (Aug 2, 2006)

Great , thanks!

One more question, hope you don't mind



: . I give them Zimectrin Gold for tape worm and you said you use a combo of 2 others. What rate are you giving that? Is that safer? Thanks


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## rabbitsfizz (Aug 2, 2006)

Zimectrin Gold is a combo of Praziquantel and Ivermectin and is fine


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## horseplay (Aug 2, 2006)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Zimectrin Gold is a combo of Praziquantel and Ivermectin and is fine



THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE HELP!!!! :bgrin


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## Nathan Luszcz (Aug 6, 2006)

I'm confused as to WHY Quest is bad. Yes, its very dangerous if overdosed (to adult full-sized horses as well) but if dosed correctly, why is it dangerous to minis? Since it comes in 1200lbs tubes, and my horse weighs 1000, why can't I give Deacon the remainder for his worming, since it'd be perfect for his weight? (a little under actually)


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## rabbitsfizz (Aug 13, 2006)

Nathan Quest works by being stored in the body fat and released over twelve - thirteen weeks.

Minis often do not have the ratio of body fat to body weight that big horses have- this is as near as I can get to a theory to back up what is a proven fact- Moxidectin can be, has been and is fatal, even in the correct dosage, to Miniatures.

Moxidectin is also fatal to Dogs- it has been withdrawn as a heart worm dewormer in many areas after fatalities.

Moxidectin also needs only be overdosed by a very little to have adverse affects (X 4 as opposed to , in for example Fenbendazole case Infinity and Beyond!!)

Overall I would rather not take the chance when there are so many totally efficacious dewormers on the market that do not have the problems exhibited by Moxidectin.


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## EquineLover (Aug 21, 2006)

What are some safe wormers for minis? We switch between wormers,and Id like to know what is and isnt safe.Thanks!


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## rabbitsfizz (Aug 21, 2006)

Anything with Praziquantel, (Tapeworms) Ivermectin (Lots of worms but not encysted small strongyles) Fenbendazole ( five day course gets encysteds)

There is no difference or very little difference between brand names- go for the active ingredient.

There is no point in swapping aimlessly you have to have a programme.

I have put one of this thread, I think.


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## EquineLover (Aug 21, 2006)

We switch wormers so they dont build an immunity to the wormer.Can you just use one wormer,without any problems?


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## rabbitsfizz (Aug 21, 2006)

Switching wormers has no effect if you do not switch the CHEMICAL is my point.

Two or three brand names all have the same chemical ingredient.

Also you have to worm at specific times of year to get specific worms.

Fenbendazole in Spring and Autumn for encysted small strongyles, and I do Tapeworms ten days later in Autumn. The Ivermectin every eight weeks until the next bout of fenbendazole five day.

There is no known resistance to Ivermectin as yet.


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## EquineLover (Aug 22, 2006)

Ok,I wasnt sure what you meant.Thanks.


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