# halters under driving bridles



## paintponylvr (Aug 21, 2013)

I decided to copy this and post it in it's own topic... I'm not advocating driving w/o a halter. Au-contraire as I drive with halters under our headstalls a lot - greenie beanie ponies, trail driving, draft horse events where halters are "traditionally" required.

IF you consider using the tied halters under your driving bridles - make sure you have one that is not bulky. I've got several different styles and sizes and a pony driving friend whom I drive with a lot, has others. I have no idea where she got some of hers - but they are thicker, stiffer and the knots are "funny". I would say they are inexpensive "knock offs" of the "real thing". I've made several of mine, purchased some from a known NH trainer & purchased several thru our local tack shop. The local tack shop usually has the ones that I consider way too bulky as well as often not fitting right over the nose (too tight in one size and next size up too large).

Anyhoo - the pressure from the headstall caused the knots to dig into her face (both sides




). W/I 30 minutes of work - she literally had 2 holes about 1/2" deep on either side of her face. This mare is a constant head tosser - so we thought nothing of the head tossing she was doing that day - turned out she had a reason. I found the problem on a break when we dismounted and were dblchecking each others equipment. We were about 1/2 way thru our trail drive - not near our trailers - so we removed the offending halter, and continued our drive so that we could get back to the trailers. We both carried first aid in our trailers and one of us usually has some type of kit with us but that day did not - so couldn't treat her until we got back.

They got pussy and nasty by the very next day and took forever to heal. We both felt terrible! And I now always check my halters. I've had problems with fit with the nylon ones as well - I've had some nasty rubs with them but not like the holes in Eclipse's face.

And on the head tossing - she tosses her head when she's wearing nothing but a collar tied to the trailer or at her hitching post. We've both tried different bits (I have more variety & sizes), borrowed a few different ones, used different material/style headstalls with and w/o blinders, side reins and balancing side reins. Using "No Gnatz" - sold at our local tack store seems to help but doesn't prevent the problem. Her teeth are checked 2x yearly and she's usually floated at least once each year since she was purchased at 2 1/2 in 2009. Her wisdom teeth came in and were pulled last winter. Age & driving miles seems to have mellowed her some - she's tossing her head less these days.

Just wanted to give folks a heads up about a possible problem.


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## Callie (Aug 21, 2013)

Do a search on underhalters. Zilco makes them and I got mine from Central Harness in Texas. Love, love, love mine. They are very fine and fit with no problems


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## happy appy (Aug 21, 2013)

What size do you have? Pony? what are the measurements of that?


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## Minimor (Aug 21, 2013)

This is a pet peeve of mineI see so many pictures of horses wearing a driving bridle over a heavy nylon halter, and the halter is positioned so low that if the driver uses the reins and the bit pulls up in the mouth at all (as snaffle bits are prone to doing!) the horses lips or cheek are going to get pinched between the bit and the halter. I do use a halter under the bridle most of the time but Im so careful about making sure the horse cant get pinched because of it. It just bugs me no end that so many people bridle their horses without a thought for the discomfort their horse may experience.

Pleasemake sure that your halter fits well and is adjusted high enough that the bit wont come anywhere near the halterand do allow for the bit riding up in the mouth when you use the reins!


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## Performancemini (Aug 21, 2013)

We have some halters we use for under the driving bridles for when we trail drive, for emergency measures. We also use them over the bridles or show halters at shows (ie. horse is NOT hitched, just harnessed and tied waiting for hitching). These halters are custom made and very economical. The nylon is soft, light and FLAT. The only metal is the clip ring and the buckle with tongue. The tongue goes through the nylon at the point you need it. It holds well. (though we have never had it tested by a horse). I wish I could get pics up, but I am still not getting the hang of it. This gal does have a web site though, if anyone is curious and wants to check her out.

www.topknotchtack.org


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## Cajonat (Aug 21, 2013)

Stupid question I guess...but why couldn't you put it over the bridle if it doesn't interfere with the bit, reins, etc.?


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## Performancemini (Aug 21, 2013)

The ones we bought from top-knotch will fit over. We slide the nosebands over the bit spoons and then adjust the tightness/looseness of the halter where we want it. It is comfortable for them that way too. That might work if you just didn't want it underneath; but like I said, these are soft and flat. We haven't experienced any rubbing or pressure marks from them ourselves. We have been using them for about 3 years now.


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## paintponylvr (Aug 21, 2013)

Cajonat said:


> Stupid question I guess...but why couldn't you put it over the bridle if it doesn't interfere with the bit, reins, etc.?


R U asking me (the OP) or folks in general?

In our cases, most halters don't fit over bridles well (IMO - though yes, I've seen some that can/will, especially those nifty buckle nose ones). For me that totally negates the whole reason that the halter is on in the first place.

If I want to take the halter off and put the headstall on, I will. At that point the pony/mini doesn't need to have a halter over the bridle (not trail driving and not a greenie-beanie).

I don't like carrying a halter as extra equipment when I'm trail driving as in a problem it's one more thing to have to DO before you can deal with a problem (putting the halter back on). Also, I've found (for me) that the lines don't work right if you have a halter on over the headstall while actually working your horse/pony. And we've had more pinching/rubbing/fit issues with halters over headstalls, than under.

Now when I've been at a show and I've put a show headstall on (one show with a driving pony so far, was a pair), I've put the halter back on over the headstall for tying up while doing other preparations. Also did the same with our riding horses when we were showing off the trailer and had a class coming up pretty quick but needed to take care of something first (usually a pit stop).

Gak - I've been working outside all day - putting up fence & mowing/manure pu (and have a sunburn and resulting headache) and this post sounds "snarky"...


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## Melinda Dean (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi Paula, Thought I would add in my experiences with this issue. When using my mini team harnesses, I put my flat, simple barn halters (that just have a buckle at the top, just under the mini's left ear), under the bridle. My team bridles have half nose bands so nothing to tangle up with the halter under the chin area. My barn halters do not have buckles under the chin. So far, this has worked well for me. Keep in mind, I do not tie up for long when they are hitched up! If I am taking a break, they are unhitched, and unbridled so they do not rub their bits on anything if their faces are itchy.

I ordered "over the bridle harness halters" from Ozark several years ago to use with my pleasure head stalls. I find it really hard to comfortably fit any halter under my Little Bit's tiny A size pleasure head stall. I can hardly find his face between the blinders! The "over halter" with top of nose buckle comes in handy with him. He also tosses his head because he sometime suffers from TMD, same thing as TMJ in humans. That joint pain is located under the base of the ear, where the jaw bones join. A halter alone can bother him sometimes. I often just use a loose fitting dog collar instead of halter if I am showing a beginner how to drive him, or to hold him when unharnessing, putting halter back on.

As already mentioned, correct fitting halters are so important. I like mine to fit like a performance halter, nose band just a bit below the bottom of the cheeks bones, high enough not to ever touch the chin strap that I use with my Mullen Mouth Liverpool bits. I once saw a very experienced driving instructor have difficulty taking off a headstall when unharnessing. The horse tried to be calm but kept tossing her head. Came to find out, the curb chain had been accidentally laced through the halter chin strap and was caught up in the buckle! Patience and staying calm helped to prevent a bad experience. This horse"s head was larger than a small mini and there was room to see what was going on. Would be difficult to see under a mini chin. I learned from seeing that situation and always try to double check behind myself after attaching my chin straps.

Happy Driving!!


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## paintponylvr (Aug 22, 2013)

HI MELINDA!!

I was wondering how you were doing the other day... This post has been interesting.

Thanks for relaying your experience.


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## Cajonat (Aug 22, 2013)

No, I didn't take as snarky at all! I'm new to driving...so full of stupid questions





We did get a soft biothane type halter for our mini with the nose buckle and it fit great over, so that's how we used it - wondering if we were wrong. It doesn't interfere at all so I think we got lucky and it fits well.


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## BiologyBrain (Aug 22, 2013)

Another option some of you 'open' driving bridle folks should check out are the combination halter-bridles. I had one for my QH & loved it. I'm not sure they make them for minis, but they would be a good option. The design is fairly simple & someone that's talented could probably engineer their own. There were extra rings on the cheek pieces. Short adjustable straps had the bit on one end and a snap on the other. Probably would work best with snaffle/non-shank bits, but a kimberwicke or similar very short shanked curb would probably work. The halter portion adjusted at the chin and the normal headstall area. The throatlatch was connected to the chin piece to keep it out of the way.


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## Katie Iceton (Aug 25, 2013)

I drive a pair of minis, and I use synthetic underhalters (all flat with a buckle on left side of poll) under my driving bridles as its easier for my navigator to unsnap the leads from these once we are hitched. My horses compete in 10+ km marathons with the halters undereath the bridles and they dont cause any issues.


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## targetsmom (Aug 25, 2013)

I just want to thank the OP of this thread because I use a flat nylon halter under my driving bridle at home all the time! In 8 years or so I never had a problem until yesterday, with a former broodmare I am training. Sox has some issues chewing (a vet and dentist have checked her teeth) and she tends to "quid" and get food stuck in her left cheek. When it gets bad she looks a bit like a chipmunk. I didn't notice that she had food stuck yesterday, but she did not act happy while driving. She is such a good girl that she willingly tried all the obstacles I was throwing at her, but was clearly unhappy when asked to trot figure eights. No head tossing or actual shaking, more like she was just not relaxing into the bit. Of course she IS very green, Anyway, we stopped several times to check the harness, the bit, etc. But it was only when I removed the bridle at the end that I noticed a tiny bulge in her cheek, and sure enough, she had food wedged in there. I think the slight pressure of the halter (and the bridle) in that are was causing her discomfort. I will be sure to check her cheek before I drive her from now on.

And the suggestion of the combination halter/bridle may be the key to even considering driving our head shy/untrusting broodmare that we leave a breakaway halter on 24/7. Other than being very shy around her ears, she is absolutely fine, leads easily and safely, and is a superb mover. The thought of having to put a bridle on her for driving ends the thought right there....


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## sls (Aug 25, 2013)

Does anyone have pictures of these halter you put under bridle?


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## Cajonat (Aug 25, 2013)

I"m not sure if you can see this, but this is the biothane halter that we put over the bridle. Have to love the mobile tack shops that come to the CDE's!!

http://www.richkylloimages.com/p913459568/e6ea55ce9

Edited to say...difficult to see, but it didn't interfere with anything


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## paintponylvr (Aug 26, 2013)

Mary -

What about just using "bit clips" to attach the driving bit to the halter? English stores generally carry them (or at least they do here)... HEre is one type - http://www.doversaddlery.com/chifney-snaps-(each)/p/X1-030/?ids=qm1szejtjctux5ucwfbyed55

Not sure what you'd do for blinders when you're ready to drive her with those, however.



And the suggestion of the combination halter/bridle may be the key to even considering driving our head shy/untrusting broodmare that we leave a breakaway halter on 24/7. Other than being very shy around her ears, she is absolutely fine, leads easily and safely, and is a superb mover. The thought of having to put a bridle on her for driving ends the thought right there....


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## paintponylvr (Aug 26, 2013)

here are several pics of halters that we've used... I haven't purchased the betathane ones yet.

This is one that will be too bulky under a driving bridle.






Here is a lighter, smaller one.






I have used simple nylon ones. The one on the pony with no noseband is heavier and doesn't work so well under a complete bridle. The one on the closest pony is one that I made out of braided haystring.






I like the one I braided myself out of the smaller haystring and then knotted into a halter the best...






Of course, I'm thinking you mean the liteweight beta thane or leather ones that would "match" the harness and headstall, not what I'm using... The one pictured in the first picture is similar to the one my girlfriend was using that created the problem with her mare - maybe a little larger in diameter with larger "awkward" knots.



sls said:


> Does anyone have pictures of these halter you put under bridle?


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## susanne (Aug 27, 2013)

Since Janie of Chimacum has worked with her harness maker on a number of innovative products, has anyone asked if she would consider marketing a combination halter/bridle for trail driving? I think this would be a very popular item. I'd like to see a throatlatch that goes straight around the throatlatch without going through the browband, like the Australian halter bridles, in order to keep it from accidentally slipping off. It would also have a ring on the bottom of the noseband for a lead rope.


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