# Perlino VS. Cremello



## Watcheye (Oct 6, 2008)

Hi everyone! I have been very interrested in Dilutes and would like to see and know more about Perlinos and Cremellos. I cant decide what I like more! Both are very cool! It seems like Perlinos are harder to come by. I dont quite know where to find them in the mid west.




Thank you!


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## Jill (Oct 6, 2008)

Well, you really cannot tell just by looking at them. Especially as they mature. I have three perlinos (2 mares, 1 filly). See the darker mane and tail on my filly when she was a baby, but see how you cannot see a difference now that she's matured some. I do love double dilutes!!!

*[SIZE=12pt]Erica's Big City Bomb Shell, a/k/a “Bomb Shell”[/SIZE]*2007 AMHA / AMHR Perlino Mare – Buckeroo Granddaughter (her sire is Little Kings Big City Buck)

Show Quality Filly and Future Prized Broodmare















Right now, my two other perlino girls, *Erica's Double Dipped* and *Erica's Sweet as Sugar*, who are BTU Granddaughters / Bandito daughters, are in foal to *Erica's Echos of My Destiny (HOF)*. I'm really excited and think we've got a good shot at some buckskin or double dilute, heavily Buckeroo bred foals


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## chandab (Oct 6, 2008)

They are very hard to visually tell apart, but perlinos sometimes have a darker tint to their manes and tails.

Genetically, they are very different...

Cremello is a sorrel (red-based ee) horse with two copies of the cream gene(crcr). [One copy gives you palomino.]

Perlino is a bay with two copies of the cream gene. So, black-based (EE or Ee) plus agouti (bay Aa or AA) plus cream. [One copy of cream gives you buckskin.]

And, don't forget about smokey cream, which is even harder to come by; black plus two cream genes.

Perlino would give you the most variety in color outcomes; as cremello can only pass on red.

Hope this helps.


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## Watcheye (Oct 6, 2008)

THANKS for the answers. I would like to get one some time but I just dont know which to look for. I have the opportunity to get one in the area that is listed as a cremello. His sire is smokey black and his dam is supposed to be cremello. I really like looking at everyones horses and hearing personal opinions so feel free...


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## Magic (Oct 6, 2008)

Testing is the only way to know for sure.



I have what I think is a perlino colt (buckskin sire, buckskin dam) and a perlino mare (also buckskin sire, buckskin dam) but there is a chance that at least the mare is a cremello since I know her sire carries a red gene. I guess I ought to test them both just to know for sure!


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## Irish Hills Farm (Oct 6, 2008)

I have had two perlino foals born here. One is the colt Magic is talking about.





Here is a picture of the colt, Irish Hills Waterloo Sunset.

Sire is Little Kings Junior Jinx (buckskin)

Dam is Cross Country Behind Blue Eyes (buckskin)






And the filly is Irish Hills Miss Michigan

Sire is Little Kings B T Buck Bandito (buckskin pinto)

Dam is Little Kings Heir To Glory (buckskin & paternal sister to Jinx mentioned above)






Only the colt's mane and tail was darker then his body when he was born. The filly's mane and tail was the same color and I thought originally she was a smoky creme, but I did have her tested and she is a perlino. Like Lori said, the only way to know for sure is to test.

Perlino = black base, agouti, two creme genes ... or picture a buckskin with an additional creme gene.

Cremello = red base, two creme genes ... or picture a palomino with an additional creme gene.

I may have a double dilute or two born next year.

I have Bandito bred to Penny (buckskin pinto x buckskin)

I have Jinx bred to Glory (buckskin x buckskin)

I have Jinx bred to Sunset (buckskin x buckskin)

Yep, there are three chances there for double dilutes.


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## Watcheye (Oct 6, 2008)

Thank you so much for all of the replies and pictures! VERY helpful and educational!



Keep em coming. I know more of you have them!





By the way those of you who have posted pictures - your horses are absolutely gorgeous. Thank you!


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## Watcheye (Oct 6, 2008)

what is a smokey creame vs either of the other two colors?


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## Crabtree Farm (Oct 6, 2008)

Don't forget about Dunlinos. I actually owned one. This is a Perlino (slightly darker/more blond/flaxen mane) with a silvery dorsal stripe. In fact I had people at the 2007 Nationals come up and rub his dorsal stripe thinking I had painted it on.

Tina Ferro


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## Watcheye (Oct 6, 2008)

Very Interresting


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## love_casper (Oct 6, 2008)

Crabtree Farm said:


> Don't forget about Dunlinos. I actually owned one. This is a Perlino (slightly darker/more blond/flaxen mane) with a silvery dorsal stripe. In fact I had people at the 2007 Nationals come up and rub his dorsal stripe thinking I had painted it on.
> Tina Ferro


Well the word "Dunalino" is just supposed to describe _palominos_ with the dun gene. Those aren't double dilutes, they are single dilutes. Your guy might be a perlino dun, but that's just called.......perlino dun lol. But that's not a separate kind of double dilute or anything, it's just a double dilute that happens to carry a dun gene.

Watcheye - smokey creams are black based double dilutes. Most of the time they look just like cremellos but sometimes they have just a tint of grey-ish-ness. Most of the time you can only tell by testing though.

Double dilutes on *Bay = Perlino*. Double dilutes on *Black = Smokey Cream*. Double dilutes on *Red = Cremello*.


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## gvpalominominis (Oct 6, 2008)

Yep, a Dunalino is a Palomino with the dun markings.

Attached is a picture of my lab tested Smokey Creme. For all intent and purpose, he visually appears to look like a Cremello. I purchased him being advertised as a Cremello and homozygous for Palomino offspring, bred to any red horse. I'm sure it was not intentional mis-advertising, but it set my Palomino breeding program back several years, non-the-less, as he was purchased as a yearling as my foundation stallion when I first started in minis. So ALWAYS ask if the 'Cremello' you are purchasing has been lab tested.... if that is important to you.






So, I'm still working on refining color with quality... but I've gone taller so am not using my little size reducing 29" Smokey Creme stallion any more.

Here's a good site: http://www.doubledilute.com


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## Haviris (Oct 6, 2008)

To me the perlinos and cremellos do look different, personally I prefer the cremellos (although this is not taking into account the smokey cremes, which I don't think I'd be able to tel from a cremello). I think the reason people seem to prefer the perlinos is because they generally prefer dark bassed horses (maybe because they give more color options, I really don't know).

I have a cremello mustang mare (never tested).


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## Jill (Oct 7, 2008)

Speaking of dun, I am wondering if one (maybe both?) of my perlino mares, Double Dipped, could carry dun. Their sire, BTU son Little Kings BT Buck Bandito, has thrown many duns. The pinto markings on my perlino mare with a foal on the ground fall only on her head



SO, I couldn't see if she's dun or not, and it would be tough if not impossible to see on a double dilute anyhow. So here comes her beautiful buckskin 2008 filly, Cover Girl, and when we rough clipped (body not legs) -- she has a wide and dark dorsal over her but which narrows over her back but is still visible. I think I see stripes behind her knees but not absolutely sure... I guess I'll know more in the spring when we clip Cover Girl. Cover Girl's sire is a Buckeroo son who is not dun... So if Cover Girl is, then I'll know so is Double Dipped


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## Meavey (Oct 7, 2008)

This is my friends perlino stallion, Millenium Eclipses Victory.

He tested Ee AA so can only produce buckskin and palomino, had 5 buckskin foals this year and one filly that we thought had to be smokey cream, because of her dark color, but since he is homozygous agouti she has to be perlino.











This is his perlino daughter that we first thought to be smokey cream:


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## Watcheye (Oct 7, 2008)

This has been very helpful. Beautiful horses Everyone! Keep the pictures coming. I love it!


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## BlueStar (Oct 7, 2008)

chandab said:


> They are very hard to visually tell apart, but perlinos sometimes have a darker tint to their manes and tails.Genetically, they are very different...
> 
> Cremello is a sorrel (red-based ee) horse with two copies of the cream gene(crcr). [One copy gives you palomino.]
> 
> ...



So if I understand correctly here a cremello will not produce anything but red based? A perlino will produce both red and black based? So our friend has a stallion registered as cremello but I tend to think he is perlino. He has never produced a red based foal even when bred to red. Sire is buckskin and dam is smokey black so can he even be cremello????



:wacko


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## love_casper (Oct 7, 2008)

BlueStar said:


> So if I understand correctly here a cremello will not produce anything but red based? A perlino will produce both red and black based? So our friend has a stallion registered as cremello but I tend to think he is perlino. He has never produced a red based foal even when bred to red. Sire is buckskin and dam is smokey black so can he even be cremello????
> 
> 
> 
> :wacko


WELL..... almost!

Cremellos can actually produce red AND black based...... because the red gene (ee) is recessive. It's just that they must be bred to a black based horse to get one. If you breed red to red, then no of course you cannot get black but if you breed red to black then yes, you can get black.

A perlino CAN produce red based horses but ONLY if they are heterozygous for black (Ee). They must carry one recessive red gene to produce red. If your friend's stallion was bred to a mare that you are _sure _was red based, and the result was something other than red based, then you are right he cannot be a cremello as the black has to come from somewhere. With a buckskin crossed to a smokey black (both single dilutes) your results can be all across the board. Without testing, the stallion could be any of the double dilutes. But having produced black based foals from reds, then he must be either perlino (bay double dilute) or smokey cream (black double dilute). A test for the agouti gene would tell for sure. Or he could be proven perlino by producing a buckskin from a horse that did not carry agouti such as a plain black horse.

Fun stuff isn't it!!!!!!!!!


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## BlueStar (Oct 7, 2008)

love_casper said:


> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> > So if I understand correctly here a cremello will not produce anything but red based? A perlino will produce both red and black based? So our friend has a stallion registered as cremello but I tend to think he is perlino. He has never produced a red based foal even when bred to red. Sire is buckskin and dam is smokey black so can he even be cremello????
> ...




~WOW~Thanks for the info, it is always great to know and understand more about color. Yes he was bred to a red pinto mare twice and the result was buckskin and smoky black. Bred to a bay mare we got smoky black (as far as we know since he has changed color every month since birth!!) and bred to a silver black mare with the greying gene we got buckskin...going grey. So all his foals have been black based so am I right to assume he is likely NOT cremello? 2 buckskin foals and 2 smoky blacks. I wonder too if he is homozygous black?

Here is a pic.


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## Watcheye (Oct 7, 2008)

Wow look at him!


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## love_casper (Oct 7, 2008)

BlueStar said:


> ~WOW~Thanks for the info, it is always great to know and understand more about color. Yes he was bred to a red pinto mare twice and the result was buckskin and smoky black. Bred to a bay mare we got smoky black (as far as we know since he has changed color every month since birth!!) and bred to a silver black mare with the greying gene we got buckskin...going grey. So all his foals have been black based so am I right to assume he is likely NOT cremello? 2 buckskin foals and 2 smoky blacks. I wonder too if he is homozygous black?


Oh my goodness he is BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!















The smokey black who's dam was red proves that the stallion is black based indeed. The buckskin out of the silver black mare proves that he IS a perlino. The black mare could not have had agouti so it must have come from him. The fact that he has had smokey black foals before proves that he is not homozygous for agouti.

So definitely perlino, and definitely hetero for agouti (Aa). As for black, well no way to tell other than testing. Even when bred to red based mares, it may just be the luck of the draw that he hands down a black gene, you'd have to test for sure. But we know he is at least Ee, if not than EE. If he ever produces a red based foal (regardless of the other parent) then you'll know he must carry red.

LOL it's kind of funny - if he doesn't produce a red foal, that really doesn't tell us anything. But if he does, that tells us he carries red. Good ol' fun with recessive genes!


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## love_casper (Oct 7, 2008)

Whoops double post! Forum had an issue just as i posted it.


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## eagles ring farm (Oct 7, 2008)

Here is a picture of our lab tested 08' Perlino Filly "Spice"

Her sire is a smutty buckskin who is homozygous for black

Dam is a Palomino snowcap Appoloosa

We never got a very good clip job on her before the weather started getting colder

she was born a non-sweater and with a hospital stay and a couple weeks of

medication she is now as normal as any other horse we have in the heat (thank God)

she is the first foal we have kept since 2005 (couldn't part with her)

we first only clipped some hair worring about the sun

then the hospital took off some more so ended up a pretty bad job , but here she is


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## StarRidgeAcres (Oct 7, 2008)

Interesting thread!

This is Spirit. He's lab tested perlino. He's homogygous for both black and agouti. He produces buckskins 100% of the time when bred to sorrel/chestnut, bay and black. He produces only buckskin or perlino when bred to palomino, buckskin or smokey black. He produces only perlinos when bred to perlinos, cremellos or smokey creams. He does not carry a silver gene and therefore can only produce a silver when bred to a mare carrying the gene. He is registered as cremello.















Sorry, we don't own any professional pictures of him yet.


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## Watcheye (Oct 8, 2008)

Yay I was waiting to see Spirit!


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## midnight star stables (Oct 8, 2008)

My perlino gelding, Nitro:


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