# Banamine after foaling



## Matt73 (Mar 6, 2011)

This just piqued my curiousity after another thread.

I'm just wondering how popular it is in the mini world to routinely give banamine after foaling. Most large horse breeders I know have it on hand _in case_ they need it (if the mare is uncomfortable). I have it on hand but I wouldn't just give it unless I noticed obvious signs of pain. Although safer than bute in some ways, banamine can still carry side-effects and risks.


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## Jill (Mar 6, 2011)

We dose it every time following the placenta being delivered and have had no adverse reactions. I use the liquid "injectable" but dose it orally. I would not be inclined to discontinuing this comfort to our mares -- they deserve it and of course they will feel crampy and sore. Some more than others but to my way of thinking, each of the new moms benefit from the relief the banamine gives them.

Remember, too, that mini births are not just like big horse births, and minis are not just like big horses. I think it's a bit harder on them, and that they can be more sensitive in general. I highly recommend making it a part of the post-delivery routine.

PS great idea for a thread, Matt


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## kaykay (Mar 6, 2011)

I used to only give it when mares seemed in pain, but then I found it was much harder to ease their pain (took more doses). A mare in extreme pain will not let their foal nurse so now I give it after they foal and try to head it off.


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## Reble (Mar 6, 2011)

yes, after all foaling, it is hard on any horse birthing. Their uterus has to get back to normal, so they all do have cramping and can be painful until their uterus is back and stop contracting.

Does help, so they can let their foal nurse sooner.


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## eagles ring farm (Mar 6, 2011)

We always give a dose after foaling

and have not waited for placenta to pass

No problems yet and the mares always seems

comfortable.

We use the paste

We also give ivermectin right away


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## txminipinto (Mar 6, 2011)

Yes, immediately after foaling. Being proactive is always better than being reactive. One dose of banamine after foaling is not going to cause any harm to the mare. It eases the pain and swelling from birth, allows the mare to be more tentative towards her foal, and does not hinder placenta passing. To me, its worth it.


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## Genie (Mar 6, 2011)

We use "flunixin"sp? and it is a powder we got from our vet. I think it is the same as banamine.

The vet said giving oxytocin closes the uterus faster preventing infection from entering and the powder to ease the pain of the contracting uterus.

Not being a vet I am sure our " Forum Vets" will clarify my statement if I "mis spoke"


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## Matt73 (Mar 6, 2011)

Genie said:


> We use "flunixin"sp? and it is a powder we got from our vet. I think it is the same as banamine.
> 
> The vet said giving oxytocin closes the uterus faster preventing infection from entering and the powder to ease the pain of the contracting uterus.
> 
> Not being a vet I am sure our " Forum Vets" will clarify my statement if I "mis spoke"


Yes, Flunixin is Banamine (Banamine is the trade name, I believe)


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## Joanne (Mar 6, 2011)

We give Banamine to all our mares right after foaling before the Breeder Alert halter alarm comes off. The dose depends on the mare, and how hard the foaling was.

Many years ago we had a mare colic after foaling. It was NOT a pretty sight. You then have two critical patients. One that needs to nurse and the other that is in pain.

We find that giving it early helps the mare be more comfortable and start to focus on the new foal and bonding, instead of her pain. Only rarely have we had to give a second shot.

As others have said, birthing is painful and if we can ease their pain, I am all for it.


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## Becky (Mar 6, 2011)

Ditto, Carin. Always immmediately after foaling (sometimes before the mare gets up). I want to prevent any further pain for the mare and I, too, find that placental detaching and passing has not been affected by banamine. As I've said before, I want my mares up on their feet tending to their foals and not on the ground thrashing in pain.

My vet has been selling me 'Flunixin' injectable. Same thing as Banamine. I give it orally.


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## shadowpaints (Mar 6, 2011)

i voted never ... i had to give it to one mare last year and she was the first she was super crampy and throwing her self down more so than my other mares had been ever.

other than that she is the only mare i have given it too. never had any mares that really showed signs of needing it


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## Carolyn R (Mar 6, 2011)

I trust my team of vets (and I know my horses). They said the pros out weigh the cons, why make the mare get to that level of discomfort. I have witnessed them getting crampy and even them getting a sore bag while their body is trying to get acclamated to the correct amount of lactation. I see no reason to have a mare shoo a foal away from nursing because she is uncomfortable. It creates a leary foal, I would rather see them spending that time bonding. I have seen even the very best of mothers shoo a foal away because she is sore.

Unless their was an underlying health condition that the banamine would aggrivate (never had to deal with this) I will continue to give banamine after foaling.

Their isn't a right or wrong in this instance, just a preference by owners, and this is my preference.


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## wwminis (Mar 6, 2011)

txminipinto said:


> Yes, immediately after foaling. Being proactive is always better than being reactive. One dose of banamine after foaling is not going to cause any harm to the mare. It eases the pain and swelling from birth, allows the mare to be more tentative towards her foal, and does not hinder placenta passing. To me, its worth it.



Ditto!


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## Field-of-Dreams (Mar 6, 2011)

I used to just give it to those that needed it but you make a great argument and I think all will get in now. I know our black mare MUST have it or she acts (and may be!) like she's in agony. The pinto mare rarely needed it, but anything to make them feel better.


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## CCC (Mar 6, 2011)

To those of you in Canada, where do you get banamine? The vets here wont just sell you some to "have on hand" for foaling or any other time you could need it!


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## Matt73 (Mar 6, 2011)

CCC said:


> To those of you in Canada, where do you get banamine? The vets here wont just sell you some to "have on hand" for foaling or any other time you could need it!


My vets give it to me, no problem. Often, they'd rather give you a bit to have on hand so that you can give a bit the next day etc. so they won't have to make a trip to the farm just to give a simple IM injection for pain. I have some IM stuff on hand from when Willow needed it last summer. I also had bute (oral suspension) from when my Thoroughbred needed it one time. Most vets will give you a bit (even if you ask for 1cc for if you need it after foaling).


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## Reble (Mar 6, 2011)

Here in Ontario Canada my vet sells me a 100 ml bottle.


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## afoulk (Mar 6, 2011)

I too regularly give my mares banamine immediately after foaling.

Arlene


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## albahurst (Mar 6, 2011)

I would consider not giving banamine IM - rather give it orally. I always give a dose of Gastro Gard right along with it to protect the stomach.


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## Miniv (Mar 6, 2011)

We also give banamine to the mare......just for the reasons previously given.

We also worm the mare and give her a grain mash.... It's all part of our step by step process. The mare stays on her feet and the newborn is given some time to hunt for groceries.



(We also hand feed the foal a little to jump-start it.)


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## Relic (Mar 6, 2011)

l give right after the foal arrives. Some mares l'm sure don't seem to look like they need it but some can hide things better then others not unlike people l would think..so for me l give a dose regardless just for peace of mind. l buy the tube of Banamine paste and always have the little powder one dose Flunixin packets which is the same thing but needs to be mixed with water a packet is 3 doses for a mini...find it really handy to take a packet to shows instead of a large tube..l've never had a problem getting a vet to sell to us here in Alberta..to me it's just a must have thing to have on hand..


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## Sue_C. (Mar 6, 2011)

Absolutely yes, after the foal is born, and while the mare is still down...sure beats having to get in and rescue a foal from being trampled or worse by a thrashing mare...and that I have seen. Not a mini either...but one of my appaloosa mares. Trust me, it is a lot easier to get it done BEFORE they start to "colic" from the pain.

As for this statement, "I have it on hand but I wouldn't just give it unless I noticed obvious signs of pain", you are doing a great dis-service to your more stalwart mares. Just because they don't show the pain, doesn't mean they aren't FEELING it. Tis but a small-small thing, and makes a huge difference.


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## Jill (Mar 6, 2011)

albahurst said:


> I would consider not giving banamine IM - rather give it orally. I always give a dose of Gastro Gard right along with it to protect the stomach.


I think this is good advice. I have been giving injectable banamine orally for many years, based on advice I got here. Then a few or so years ago, our vets made a point of letting clients know that they also recommend NOT giving it IM, but orally, because they have so many issues with abscesses. In fact, a year or two ago when a vet was out for "well baby" on a new foal, she mentioned her next stop was to treat a horse w/ an abscess and that she hates it when people give the injectable banamine IM vs. orally...

We buy a bottle of the injectable because it is much more economical than the paste and a lot easier to dose properly. It always expires before we use it all, but really -- that's how you want it to be! It's a great product to have on hand.

The gastroguard or ulcerguard dosed with it is also an excellent practice in my opinion, especially if the horse has not recently eaten and has an empty stomach.


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## Matt73 (Mar 6, 2011)

Good to know. Thanks. I've always given it IM and have never had an issue (although I haven't given it that often...). But if it works just as well giving it orally, I'll do that from now on. So you just squirt in at the back of the tongue? It must not taste very good


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## Jill (Mar 6, 2011)

Yes, just in the back of the mouth. I know it doesn't taste good, but think it's better than feeling bad... I follow it up post-foaling with Ivermectin and the kind we use is apple flavored gel (called Bimectin). The horses actually love that dewormer and beg for it like it's cookies so I think that helps erase the nasty taste. Also, now I don't remember if it's gastroguard or ulcerguard that I keep on hand, but it smells strongly of Cinnamon so I think that must taste pretty nice if you want to give that, too (I do sometimes and think it's a good idea).

PS - I've been taking lots of Nyquil the past week and a half and that stuff is WAY nasty but the benefits outway the yucky taste


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## Matt73 (Mar 6, 2011)

Yep I, too, always worm within 12 hours of foaling. Thanks, Jill


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## Miniv (Mar 6, 2011)

Matt.... Just to clarify our "steps".......

We give our mares the liquid Banamine orally, liquid Ivermection, and then quickly give them a dish of grain which helps take the icky taste out of their mouths.

By doing all of this very quickly as soon as the foal is born - often before it's even standing, it helps the mare in many ways, plus gives the foal some extra time to locate the milk bar.

When both Larry and I are home when a birth happens, people who are watching laugh because we have specific steps and we work together as a team running back and forth for the gentle iodine/Banamine/wormer/grain/baby blanket/feeding the foal it's first bit of colostrum/enema for foal........We've done it so much (approx. 200 foals) that we definitely have a system.


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## JMS Miniatures (Mar 6, 2011)

Yes but I like to make sure that the placenta has been passed. Most of mine came out rather quickly. I also worm the mare with Ivermectrin as well.


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## copperwood farm (Mar 6, 2011)

I came from a big horse world, and it was not 'protocol' to give banamine. ( although I would give tit to all mares now)..but the minis are so different in so many ways. I always give them banamine, again the injectable orally.

I get a bottle from my vet, to keep on hand for emergencies......if your vet won't give it to you, I would find a different vet, at least to get 'supplies' from....or they are live beside you!!!!


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## Miniv (Mar 6, 2011)

JMS Miniatures said:


> Yes but I like to make sure that the placenta has been passed. Most of mine came out rather quickly. I also worm the mare with Ivermectrin as well.


In 20 years we've never had giving Banamine slow down the passing of the placenta. The contractions are set in place and it's part of bringing the uterus back down to normal size.


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## Getitia (Mar 6, 2011)

We too give banamine immediately after foaling to all mares - as well as immediately deworm. To date(knock on wood)we have never had a retained placenta.


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## REO (Mar 6, 2011)

Miniv said:


> We also give banamine to the mare......just for the reasons previously given.
> 
> We also worm the mare and give her a grain mash.... It's all part of our step by step process. The mare stays on her feet and the newborn is given some time to hunt for groceries.
> 
> ...


Same here! Except I feed them her regular feed instead of mash. But I understand why the mash. I may try that!

I think that even if a mare doesn't show pain, she has to feel pain. She just gave birth! I give the Banamine orally.


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## RockRiverTiff (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes to the banamine, yes to the wormer, and now thanks to this thread I will be asking our vet what she thinks of giving gastroguard at the same time. I would give the mares a hoof rub if I thought it would help. They carry those babies for 11 months and then deliver all that work in mere minutes - they deserve whatever comfort I can give them for a job well done.


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## Matt73 (Mar 7, 2011)

"Have you ever had a baby?". Someone asked me this on the other thread. Well, no, but I can tell you that if I passed a watermelon out of my penis and then _after the fact_ someone gave me a percocet, I'd be mighty ticked off lol. If you're going to compare a mare to a human, I can tell you that contractions and pushing a baby out of your vagina are a heck of a lot more painful than having the uterus shrink back to size. That is from talking to a lot of women and being present at one birth. I haven't known any one to be offered pain killers _after_ giving birth. What they _do_ do is provide an epidural analgesia _during_ labour and delivery which, essentially, blocks transmission of signals through nerves in the spinal cord.



lol


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## wcr (Mar 7, 2011)

Matt you crack me up. I have treated many men passing a kidney stone which I'm told is similar to a woman giving birth, and they were grateful for pain meds at any point in the process. Much less passing a watermelon?!!!

Let's look at Banamine in layman's terms. It is similar in action and properties to Ibuprofen. It is not a narcotic. I think it is perfectly reasonable that if I had a baby (heaven forbid) I would at least be given an ibuprofen to make me comfortable.


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## Matt73 (Mar 7, 2011)




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## debsminis (Mar 7, 2011)

Just curious.....I had my vet out yesterday to do a mare & foal check....I asked her about giving Banamine to mare....and she said never, that it goes straight to foal????

I am puzzled....


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## Jill (Mar 7, 2011)

@ Matt


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## Matt73 (Mar 7, 2011)

debsminis said:


> Just curious.....I had my vet out yesterday to do a mare & foal check....I asked her about giving Banamine to mare....and she said never, that it goes straight to foal????
> 
> I am puzzled....


They're talking about giving it to the mare _after_ she foals


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## Sue_C. (Mar 7, 2011)

Matt73 said:


> "Have you ever had a baby?". Someone asked me this on the other thread. Well, no, but I can tell you that if I passed a watermelon out of my penis and then _after the fact_ someone gave me a percocet, I'd be mighty ticked off lol. If you're going to compare a mare to a human, I can tell you that contractions and pushing a baby out of your vagina are a heck of a lot more painful than having the uterus shrink back to size. That is from talking to a lot of women and being present at one birth. I haven't known any one to be offered pain killers _after_ giving birth. What they _do_ do is provide an epidural analgesia _during_ labour and delivery which, essentially, blocks transmission of signals through nerves in the spinal cord.
> 
> 
> 
> lol


All I can tell you is from my own experiences, once with an Appaloosa mare, and another with a mini. While it IS easier to get into a stall with a thrashing mini mare, than it was with the 1000+ Appaloosa, to get that foal out of harm's way...it certainly isn't something I relish having to do again...and if a simple little poke in the butt will make that mare comfy...whether SHE needs it or not...what a small-small price to pay, wouldn't you think???


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## debsminis (Mar 7, 2011)

Matt73 said:


> They're talking about giving it to the mare _after_ she foals





Yes, I realize they are talking about giving to mare after she foals.... But my vet said NO WAY, that it goes striaght thru mares milk to foal.....


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## Reble (Mar 7, 2011)

debsminis said:


> Yes, I realize they are talking about giving to mare after she foals.... But my vet said NO WAY, that it goes striaght thru mares milk to foal.....


Found this info on Banamine: Maybe someone else knows more.

The Banamine interferes with the prostaglandin production, but - provided that it's given according to the manufacturer's guidelines - doesn't seem to have bad effects on the foetus or on the foal after its birth. According to the manufacturer of Banamine, the drug will not get into the mare's milk, and thus won't affect the nursing foal.

http://www.horse-sense.org/archives/20060326155530.php


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## debsminis (Mar 7, 2011)

Reble said:


> Found this info on Banamine: Maybe someone else knows more.
> 
> The Banamine interferes with the prostaglandin production, but - provided that it's given according to the manufacturer's guidelines - doesn't seem to have bad effects on the foetus or on the foal after its birth. According to the manufacturer of Banamine, the drug will not get into the mare's milk, and thus won't affect the nursing foal.



Thank you, I was just surprised because I knew so many here do give Banamine...


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## [email protected] (Mar 7, 2011)

I voted only when uncomfortable, I don't wait until it's severe, but some mares really act like nothing happened, no cramping, etc., so why dose them with a drug unnecessarily? If the mare is crampy, or wanting to lay down, etc., then yes. But I have some pop up and go about life like nothing has happened.

That's one reason vets do NOT like to give out meds to people for use, is incorrect and/or overuse.


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## champsmom (Mar 7, 2011)

I first want to say that I absolutly love thi forum. I have learned so much. Last year my mare rejected her foal. The vet said the colt tore her and he thinks the pain is why she went after him. After reading all these post from people who give banamine, I called my vet to purchase a tube. Maybe if I had given her something last year the outcome would have been a whole lot better, not to mention how much more rest I would nave gotten not having to feed him evey two hours. Thanks everyone!


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## TuffyLynn (Mar 8, 2011)

still.. explain to me why you give the inject. orally instead of a paste. also how much paste...my mares are 33.75 inches

also i know the past expires but can you give it if it is "just out" of expiration


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## Becky (Mar 8, 2011)

The fact that the injectable can be given orally and is just as effective, is a plus to horse owners, IMO. No need to risk potetial abcesses at an injection site.

As to how much to give of the paste, you might ask your vet about that. Banamine is dosed by weight and you need to know the approximate weight of your horses. Not having used the paste before, I'm not sure how it's marked off, but it should be in weight increments.

Most medications are good for 6 months past their expiration date, but again, you might want to ask your vet or the manufacturer.


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