# Blazing Star Ranch: Trixie's filly, more problems



## blazingstarranch

Hello everyone,

I'm so happy to be able to join this forum. I've been lurking for quite some time and enjoy reading everyone's posts.

I've been breeding horses for over a decade, but this is my very first year with miniature horses. I work for a small breeding operation as ranch manager. When I first started working here, the property was in progress, and I believe the stallion bred some of the mares well before I was originally told. Unfortunately, one mare has already had a stillbirth, the foal looked very early to me. The mare had no warning signs of labor the night before and the foal appears it never took a breath, but was out of the sac. Any thoughts on what could have caused it? The mare is at a healthy weight, UTD on vaccinations, has no infection, and is not on grass pasture at all. She also developed a nice bag with the birth of her foal.

We have two other mares, both maidens, due any time. I honestly don't have a due date, my employer can't remember. One of these mares should have never been bred, as she is just now barely three years old. Luckily, she is 33 1/2" tall, but I'm very concerned for her.

I was hoping to share info on all the mares, and get a little support and even advice. All the mares have been vaccinated with the Pnuem-K at 5, 7 and 9 months and are on a very good diet. They are all at good weights.

First is Blazing Stars Idols Queen Victoria daughter of First Knight's Billy Idol, or Vickie. She's the young one, and is a palomino. She has been slowly developing a bag over the last 10 days and is about 50% to 60% full, nice creamy white milk starting yesterday. Her vulva is still a pale pink and her tail head is fairly firm.

Next is QARS Midnight Maiden, 5 years old, and a maiden also. She's a dark grulla, about 33" tall. She has a very small, loose bag at the moment, no other signs.

Absolute Golds Buckaroo Babydoll, 34 1/2" tall, palomino, given birth before. She is huge, but no bag at all.

Absolute Golds Onyx Ice Blue, 34" tall, silver bay with blue eyes, smaller than Babydoll and no bag, also has given birth before.

Absolute Golds Rebels Lady in Love, 31" tall, palomino, has had one foal and not due until May, the only one that I bred and therefore the only one with a due date.

Trixie(her reg name is long lol) is a 31" mare, has had at least one foal, I believe she is a silver dapple tobiano, appears to be 4-5 months pregnant via palpation.

The stallion is a grandson of Alavadars Double Destiny, and is black.

I would like to post some pics here of bellies, see what everyone thinks if that's ok?


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## blazingstarranch

The first pic is Vickie, our youngest mare, taken last summer.

Second pic is the stallion, who is quite crafty when it comes to breeding mares.


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## Magic Marker Minis

The advice on this forum is very helpful and they love pictures. You just have to make sure you have permission from the owner, since the mares are not yours. They like pictures (at horse level) of the side, back, vulva area, and the milk bar.

I have 5 mares due starting the first of March. Now I'm just over-run with baby goats. Five of our own(two still due) and nine of a friends(2 still due).


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## weerunner

If you have a mare with creamy white milk you've got a mare about to foal!! I'd be watching her like a hawk. Milk usually goes from clear, to yellow, to skim milk to white milk. At the sticky yellow stage I'm on high alert for all mares. At the white milk stage I would not even go to the bathroom. Maybe I misread that. Do you have access to pool test strips, they help alot in knowing how the milk is coming along.


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## blazingstarranch

So, even if the vulva being pale pink if the milk is white she is close? I have been checking her vulva every few hours. By the way, my employer, who is also my friend, is right here every step of the way on this forum! ;-)


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## Eagle

Hi and welcome to the forum. We are here to help and hold your hand throughout this exciting time




It is great that you have years of breeding experience which you can more or less throw out of the window when it comes to minis



sorry if that sounds harsh



These little angels don't do anything by the book, so as Amanda says a mare with white milk should not be left. I just love the foal-Time milk strips that are easy to use, cheap and very accurate.

Can we have pics of the girls please, (taken at their level) profile of whole horse, taken from behind and an udder shot





Once again welcome to the Nutty Nursery.


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## blazingstarranch

Thank you guys so much! I kinda figured after doing some research that I was going to have to start over.





As for Vickie, her milk was milky yesterday, now today her bag has gone down, and it's more opaque??? Her tail head is pretty firm, inside of vulva is pink. I tried to get an udder shot, which ALSO feels a lot less full, from a good 50% yesterday down to 35 or 40. Problem with getting udder shots right now is our blistering cold weather, we don't want to shave the area yet. It's snowing right now as a matter of fact. I did get the other pics of her, and Midnight. These are the two maidens.


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## blazingstarranch

Here is Midnight, she is the sister to the mare that had a stillborn foal a few days ago. It's our belief she was bred about the same time. The first pic is the foal we lost, mama had no signs of labor, just came down to the barn in the morning to a dead foal.

Midnight would not stand still for a shot from behind, the wind picked up and it's frigid lol.

I'm so excited to have your help, and am a very eager student!


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## blazingstarranch

We're just so concerned, we want to make sure we don't lose another, if possible. Losing this little filly was devastating for all of us.

Here is Babydoll, due sometime next month (I think, but we have a sheisty stallion).


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## Eagle

I am so sorry about our filly



She looks fully formed so it could be that she didn't get out of the sac but you will never really know unfortunately. It has happened to all of us so we know how you feel.

vicky looks like she has a while yet but I think Midnight looks quite close. It would be good to see her from behind when you can without freezing to death





They are all very cute


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## Eagle

What are the girls eating now and how much?


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## blazingstarranch

The girls have free choice Orchard Grass/Timothy mix, Dumor mare and foal feed, a little beet pulp and free choice minerals. They are all at good weights. I have Vickie and Midnight inside, in the two fully enclosed stalls with heat lamps and thick straw, but it's still so cold. We are working hard to try and set up a camera system but it's not installed yet, so we've been checking constantly and sometimes sitting and observing behaviors. It's snowing pretty hard right now but I will get more pics tomorrow. I'm so curious, why does Midnight look farther along?


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## blazingstarranch

Also, Pearl, the mother of the deceased foal, had no bag at all the night before and is estimated to have given birth at about 4 am, her milk must have com ein with delivery? The night before, she had two tiny little teats and a hint of skin flap.


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## lexischase

Welcome, we are all so glad you joined us!! All the girls are beautiful, I look forward to lots more photos


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## blazingstarranch

Thank you all for the words of welcome. I was just reading back through my posts, I forgot to mention that the girls also get about 25% alfalfa added to their diets. Tonight, I squirted milk into a container from Vickie, and it's still a thin pale white color, but definitely white. Her tail head is bony to me, but no other changes. Midnight oddly has edema in her teats, though her bag is small and floppy, no noticeable vulva changes. Both girls have good appetites.


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## countrymini

Congratulations on the pregnancies of your beautiful ladies! And a very handsome dad, will be some lovely foals!


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## blazingstarranch

Hello all! We have a nasty storm coming and spent the day insulating the foaling stalls and sealing cracks etc. We are working on installing our barn cam too and hopefully we can foal watch from the house (fingers crossed!) Here is Vickie today, bag about the same, but her tail head feels very bony to me. No other visible changes, I don't think...

And Midnight has been very antsy today, biting her sides a lot, even up under her belly. No bag at all, but walking around with a lifted tail, and when she lifts her tail her vulva looks more relaxed by far. If I try to lift her tail to look she puckers up though.

What do you guys think of our girls?


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## Eagle

Idem what Aunty Diane said


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## blazingstarranch

Good morning Aunties! Thank you for your help! Vickies tail head is the only bony part on her. They've definitely been eating a LOT more lately!



we are so excited, we got our barn camera up. We bought a Lerox security camera off Ebay for $100.00 and it works fabulously. The girls are so uncomfortable, laying down, grunting from laying on those baby bellies. Vickie is peeing a lot more, but no other major signs so we may have some time. The suspense is killing me!


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## blazingstarranch

Update 2/27/13

We have started using pool water Ph strips, what is everyone's opinion on this? Also, there seems to be more than one ratio to use. Some say 1 ml milk and 6 ml distilled water, others say 3 ml milk and 5 ml water for mini's. Also, I can't find a thing on how red or purple the inside of a maiden mini mare's vulva will get before delivery?

With Vickie, we have a very soft tail head, a very full udder and pretty creamy milk. Her Ph is resting at 7.2, she is calm and seems tired but no frantic behaviors right now. My employer wants to know, what ratios are best to use for the Ph test strips. I know we're getting close...

Thanks so much!


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## weerunner

I have always used the 6 times dilution rate and had perfect results from that. pH of 6.8 or lower and foaling is real close. 7.2 means you're getting closer but most mares get lower than that before they foal. Of course there will always be sneaky ones that foal without the total pH change.


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## Eagle

Crayonbox has a great website:

http://www.crayonboxminiatures.com/Foalingsigns.html

This is my mare an hour before foaling


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## blazingstarranch

I have some extremely sad news to report. Vickie went into labor this morning around 4 am. She wasn't making progress and it appeared she had a malpresentation so we called out the vet. The foal was already dead, and completely transverse, with his back to the vaginal opening. To make matters worse, he was gigantic. The vet had to very carefully perform a dissection to save Vickie. She is not out of the woods yet but has improved some so we're hopeful. This colt was 32 lbs, and would have stood at least 22 1/2 inches tall.

We are racking are brains, trying to figure out what's going on. Is it because she was a maiden? Could it be the stallion, even though he's only 32 inches and she is 33 inches? What are we doing wrong? What can we do to prevent any more tragedies this year? These mini's are all part of a program we're working on to serve the community with therapy and lessons. They are very important to us, and we don't want any more tragedies.

So very sad right now, questioning everything. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## chandab

So sorry for your loss.

You likely didn't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, this is the ugly side of raising minis.


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## Danielleee

So sorry for your loss




I hope your mare continues to do well.


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## Eagle

I am so very sorry for your sad loss. I am sending prayers that Vicki recovers soon.





When breeding any animal there is always a risk but with minis it seems even higher, I too learnt that the hard way





hugs


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## crisco41

I am so sorry. I hope your beautiful girl has a full recovery. As a newbie..with several mares in foal it is stuff like this that fills the pit of my stomach with fear. best wishes on your others, lori


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## lexischase

So very very sorry for your loss. I will be praying for both you and Vickie. <3


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## countrymini

So sorry to hear about Vickie and her little boy. Hope she continues to heal and recover quickly


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## MountainWoman

I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## AnnaC

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your foal - sometimes these things happen inspite of any/all precautions you may take, it doesn't mean that you have done anything wrong. Do you know much about Vickie's breeding - or that of the stallion? Sometimes there is a 'larger' mini in the background which MIGHT mean that a foal being born several generations later could throw back to the larger size.

For others who may be worrying about foaling a maiden mare, please relax, it is quite unusual for a maiden to foal with a really big baby - yes, they will probably require assistance as things can be quite a tight fit for a first foaling mare, but to actually have a foal that is too big really doesn't happen that often. Poor Vickie's baby had already died, plus it was mal-presented. Had everything been normal for her, she may well have been able to produce her little one with the help of those caring for her.

I'm sure your other girls will foal just fine - hope little Vickie feels better very soon, bless her.


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## blazingstarranch

Thank you so much for all your words of kindness. I know this situation is not typical, I just wanted that reassurance that it has happened to other breeders before. That we did every thing we could do. I'm sorry if I've caused worry in those of you waiting for your first foals. I can see how unusual Vickie's situation truly is.

We would like to breed her again some day as long as she's sound. Would it be wise to find a 30" or less stud to breed her to instead of taking the risk of breeding her back to our stallion? I agree, maybe there is something way back in the pedigree. I don't know if it's the same, but when I was breeding Quarter horses, we had a few mares that could be bred repeatedly to the same stallion with similar sized foals. But then we would try a different stallion and have a huge foal.

Vickie is a daughter of First Knight's Billy Idol, and we hope that maybe some day we will have a chance with her to have a healthy foal. Our next foal isn't due for a few weeks so we have a break. And only one more of these mares is a maiden, the rest are experienced broodmares that have had healthy foals.

I will keep you posted on how Vickie is doing, keep her in your prayers, and thank you so very much for all your support.


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## eagles ring farm

I am keeping Vickie in my prayers ...as Chanda said this is the ugly part of breeding miniatures. You just thank God your mare is ok unfortunately losses of foals is a part of it. We have 1 live healthy foal so far this season and 1 mare lost a foal we are waiting on maybe 3 more. The excitement is usually combined with worry as they get closer . Hoping the rest of your season is filed with healthy foals and mares. I am so sorry


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## crisco41

Please don't be sorry... it is scarey but I understand that it can be a part of having babies. How silly would I be to go into this blindly thinking nothing about difficult births, mal presentations, red bags? I would rather be aware then skipping blindly through with no idea of possible dangers. I am just sorry that in order for me to be aware..some folks have had to go thru the experience.I am learning an awful lot through this forum. I really had no idea of the complications that are possible.


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## K Sera

I'm sorry about your losses this year with your mini foals. I had two losses last year and it sure does make you question why and not want to put yourself or the mares through the pain and heartbreak again .... but I too have one due any day now and I am hopeful things will go well this time and that is what makes it all worth it!


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## targetsmom

Oh, gosh I just read this and I am so sorry! It reminds me of our initial start with breeding, and I wouldn't wish our luck on anyone. We had a mare with an experience like you just had - huge foal, needed a fetotomy for the mare to survive - but our mare recovered fine and went on to have two live foals for us. We had bought her because of her fantastic foaling history and for us she has had 3 dead foals. But last year, our luck changed, as yours certainly will at some point, and we had three live magnificent foals from three bred mares, including that one.. Hope your mare recovers like ours did.

Edited to add: Our mare was bred back to the same stallion - our 30.5" SRF Buckshot - and her two live foals in 2010 and 2012 have been TINY! Neither one will ever see 30". So you really never know. Actually, we didn't breed her for this year because we aren't breeding for the really tiny ones - we want driving horses! We are training her and her 2010 gelding to drive.


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## Eagle

Sometimes you just need to try different combinations. My stallion was tiny and stood at an impressive 27' but put with one of my smallest mares Britt who was 29.5' always threw big foals that I never managed to get out alive. In 2011 I put her to another stallion who is 29' and she had a gorgeous tiny colt that came very easily. My stallion with my other mares always threw small foals it was just with Britt that the foals came out big. On her side all relatives are small so it must be from his side.

As the others have said it is part of breeding and we have all been in your shoes so we totally understand.

Hugs and prayers coming your way


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## little lady

(HUGS) so sorry for your loss. Wishing your mare a full recovery. This is a sad truth when raising animals and it seems the miniature horses have more birthing problems then their full size counter parts. The size of the stallion and mare plus genetics decides the size of the foal so one cannot count on a small foal based only on the size of the stallion. I have been in your shoes and it hurts tremendously.


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## blazingstarranch

Hello friends, just wanted to give you an update on Vickie. She is looking so much better today, and though she's not out of the woods we are very encouraged by her progress. She stands 33 inches tall but is very petite through her hips, and very fine boned. The stallion is 32 inches. We have been thinking about breeding her this summer if she does recover fully but she will get a full vet work up first.

This one affected me so much more than all the lost quarter horse and paint foals I have seen over the years. I have seen it all too. But something about these mini's gets you right in the heart. They're so small and childlike, then they have babies who are even smaller and more innocent and helpless. Plus the fetotomy has been burned into my memory like none other.

That's very interesting that some times a certain combination of mare and stallion can possibly produce a large foal while another combo will not. So glad to have you all to help us through all of this!


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## AnnaC

Sending ((((HUGS)))) for you and continuing prayers and healing thoughts for little Vickie.


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## blazingstarranch

Hello all. I wanted to give and update on our girls. First off, Vickie and Pearl, our mares that lost their foals, are looking great. Vickie especially, as she was pretty bad off after her awful delivery.

Onyx (granddaughter of Patton and a silver bay) is at day 306 now. Non pregnant, she is the sweetest little thing, so easy going. All the little kids ride her bareback. But now, she's such a grump! She attacks her food rather violently, she doesn't want to be touched and gets irritated with me when I check her lol. So far, no signs of a bag, or tailhead/vulva changes.

Babydoll (Buckeroo, Bond and a palomino) is at day 305 now. She is a retired show mare, and has had at least two foals. She has been super mellow the last few days, when normally she is my super grump lol. Right now she has these big, soft, sweet eyes and is politely eating her food. She's the one that knocks her bucket down, slings it around, paws the ground lol. But she's in the zone I guess lol. Now other signs though.

Midnight (Cherie Pretty Boy, Grulla) is our maiden and is at 300 days today. No signs, other than her belly seems to have dropped. No vulva changes, no bag, no softened tailhead yet.

I'm curious, have you all had foals at this gestational age, and have you had a mare just lay down and have a foal without a bag, without a relaxed vulva, no color change inside? These mini's are tough!

I will post pics later on today, but I'm so curious to hear what others have gone through with surprise babies.

Thank you!!!


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## Riverrose28

I just saw this one, I'm so sorry for your loses, as the others have said this happens to all of us. We are only human and seems sometimes that no matter how hard we try Mother Nature is against us. I lost my heart horse mare in 2008 to a bad dystocia, the vet tried for over four hours to save her as the foal was lost, but in the end she passed as well. It is great you still have your beloved mares and can try again. Good luck with your other expectant ladies.


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## targetsmom

There are lots more people on here with more (and better) foaling experience than we have had, but as I understand it, maidens can sometimes foal without a bag. Our only maiden (up until this year) foaled in 2009 at 303 days, with a slight bag, and 5 days after our horrible experience with a fetomomy. He was our dream foal (and lots of other people, including judges seemed to agree with us), and the only reason we didn't just give up breeding. Keep that thought....

Our other mares (all with previous foals) foaled with full bags. I also test the milk and find that sticky milk usually means they will foal within 24 hours. You can also buy milk test strips to do it a bit more precisely. If you have time, you might want to re-read threads on this forum from last year to follow progress..


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## Eagle

Some mares will foal with very little udder, as Mary said it is usually maidens but you will notice a change in vulva and colour. If you know your mares well you will usually see some behaviour differences. They tend to wander away from the group, some lose their appetite. I had one that would follow me around like a shadow the day she foaled.


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## countrymini

Good to hear your mares are recovering well. Big hugs for them. This is my first year for babies as well and so far I've learn't that you can't rely on the "normal" to actually happen haha. Both my mares are maidens, and one I have a 4 month range of when she couldv'e been covered. She had a jelly butt and loose tail a month back and now its all hard so really, I'm now quite sure they're just determined to make me watch and wait till I go mental! lol


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## AnnaC

So glad to hear that Vickie and Pearl have recovered now. Good luck with your other girls - please keep us posted.


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## blazingstarranch

Ok, finally got some pics, and other than copious amounts of hair, not a lot appears to be going on.

First is Onyx, at day 307. No bag change at all, no other signs.






Next is Babydoll, at day 306. No changes, but she certainly has the biggest belly. She's usually my cranky one but she's Mrs. Mellow now.






Finally is Midnight, our nutty little fruitcake who is now 301 days. She is a rescue, though she is double registered she was not well treated for the first three years of her life. Now signs yet of foaling.






What do you guys think of them? Thanks!!!!


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## blazingstarranch

Just for fun here's a few pics of Onyx without her winter woolies and baby belly, lol. She has a very nice neck when she's not holding her head up in the air lol. Do you agree or disagree that she is a Silver Bay? Her papers list her as a chestnut...but it doesn't seem quite right with her leg color being so dark and having that sooty color in her mane.


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## countrymini

She does look like a silver bay.


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## atotton

I 'd also say silver bay.


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## blazingstarranch

Hello all! We have an update on Miss Babydoll. I would LOVE your opinions, because I'm out of my comfort zone with these mini's! Babydoll is about 310 days along and tonight, her udder has only a slight amount of development from yesterday and no milk can be squeezed out. She has only a slight amount of softening in the tail head area and has less tail clamp but definitely has some. But the thing is, when I checked her vulva, it was HUGE, had lengthened so much and after looking inside I can see about 3/4 of the inside is no longer pale pink but a nice rosy color and kind of streaky. So I moved her into a stall with the cameras and checked her again and she was able to pucker it up quite a bit. When I say it's longer I mean more than an inch! Her pucker reflex only last for a little bit then it dropped back down. She also has a V to her belly, no foal movement and when applying to both sides of her flanks at the same time, I can't feel the baby at all.

She's still hoovering her food like a pro!

Would LOVE some feedback ladies-you've all seen so much it would be very helpful!

Thanks!


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## cassie

hi I'm a little late, but sorry for your losses I hope that the rest of your babies come through perfectly





with regards to the post above I would be watching her just in case... at 310 days it is possible for her to foal... if she is a maiden she could pull a sneaky on you... I would go out every few hours and check to make sure she isn't developing a bag or milk...

with regards to the vulva, yes it could be the foal coming on it could also be the position of the foal putting more pressure on that area (which could mean foal is in position ready for the birthing which could take a while yet...) its so hard to know especially with a maiden... all I could really say is to watch her.

some mares won't eat before foaling but like Amanda's mare who foaled the other day she ate her breakfast, finished it then maybe a minute later was down having that baby! lol they like to keep us guessing...

how is her poop? before she foals she will most likely have lots of soft mushy poop as she will be "cleaning out' ready for the baby...

I'm sure the others will give you good advice as well





good luck and safe foaling!


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## AnnaC

I would also be watching her closely. Any changes in vulva colour can be a 'warning' sign - in the good sense! Things could change very quickly within a few days or the next week, you never know. She could suddenly fill that udder or may wait until actually foaling to do it. Watch for any changes in her usual behaviour too. Checking on her throughout the night is good, but, as I said on another thread, once that vulva turns to that deep bllod red, then i would not leave her unattended for more than 5 to 10 minutes - just time for making a cuppa or for a loo visit!!

Also use your gut instinct! Take the time to just watch her - especially during the evening - and see and feel what your gut tells you. It may seem silly, but gut instinct does work and improves with practice!! I always use it, alongside all the other signs, sometimes I have been wrong and have sat up all night with no foal to show for it, but I dont mind as to be there at the birth is the most important thing I can do for my girls. Mostly I have been right and have been right there to help another precious little person into the world - and yes, often with the mare stuffing her face on her hay as she gives birth! LOL!!

Good luck, keep us posted on her progress.


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## Eagle

I agree with Anna and Cassie



A red vulva is what I look for


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## blazingstarranch

Update on Babydoll plus pics! This morning I discovered what looks like a small part of the mucous plug. It's a bloody streak of mucous inside the top of her vulva. Still no bag, and only moderate tailhead softening. She still has a soft tail clamp but one none the less. Not much of a bag at all and can't get any milk. Here are her pics, what do ya'll think?


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## AnnaC

With those teats already pointing straight down her udder could fill easily and suddenly. Her tummy doesn't look quite ready - baby needs to move a little bit more forward, but again this could happen quickly. I wouldn't worry about not getting any milk (we never try for milk anyway!), but continue to keep a really close eye on her - she might decide to make you wait a while yet, or she might suddenly decide to get everything into position over the next few days!!


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## cassie

I agree with Anna, watch her very closely and as soon as you see that V happening I think your going to see a bubba!

so exciting!! keep us posted


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## jaymie124

I am in love with your pretty ponies <3 I am also relieved to find another belly about as big as my mare's! Midnight's behind photo is similar to Kota's please keep the pics coming they are very useful for comparing progress  looks like they're all coming along nicely for you!


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## Gone_Riding

Babydoll is getting so close!! How exciting!


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## blazingstarranch

Hello all! I haven't been on too much as I had a tooth extraction that went very wrong. :bye-sadI have a ways to go before I'm better. But I wanted to give an update on the girls. Onyx and Babydoll are at 321-322 days and have been uncomfortable. Udders are 35% full. But Midnight, our last maiden mare of the year, is 316 days and just today her bag went from almost nothing to 40% with a lot of firm edema inside the udder and protruding milk veins. Her vulva is much more relaxed. She's very flighty and has strong vulva pucker normally lol. Now she just can't pucker! Also, when Vickie was in labor(also a maiden), the inside of her vulva turned pale lilac and she was trying to deliver but couldn't due to distocia. Anyway, Midnight is getting that same lilac color too. Any thought???


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## cassie

not sure about the colouring... best leave that for Diane... Hey Diane?? SPOTS!!!

hope that you are feeling better soon




what a horrible time to get that done



and I'm sorry that it went wrong... hope all is well soon good luck for foaling!!!

p.s how do you get the horse in your avatar pics mane so white!!! lol


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## Gone_Riding

I just read through the whole thread and saw that you lost the one foal... I'm so glad that Vicky (I sure hope I remembered her name right!) is doing as well as she is. My ONLY foaling experience was with a QH mare that had had 3 babys prior to me owning her. She even went in to labor ON her due date. Everything went beautiful up until she just up and stopped labor. When I talked to the vet the next day, he was saying it must have been colic. I insisted that it wasn't colic to the point that he finally said that he'd come out and induce her while he was there. I knew something was wrong. My gut told me that the foal was too big. I had even had a dream that only half of the baby was born months earlier...

The vet induced her, she went into labor again and quit. So he induced her again. The foals feet appeared but then she quit again. The vet had me bring her into the clinic to sedate her so that he could help deliver that baby. I left when she started nickering to teh baby that wasn't coming out. At that point, it was still alive. It was so heart breaking. After a while, he came out and told me that I was right, the foal WAS too big, but the baby had died. He had to cut the foal out to save the mother... My 14 hh QH had a 100+ lb. baby. It should have been about 80 lbs.

So, here I am with a maiden miniature horse trying again for a foal 10 yrs. later. I'm terrified, but I'm so grateful to this forum. I've learned so much. Especially that there is still hope. I know my experience wasn't the same, because it wasn't a mini. You are right. There's something about a mini that one can't avoid. They weasel into your heart and never leave! This baby means 20 times to me than that baby did, even though that one would've been worth over 10x what this one is worth. To me, its worth can't be measured with money...

I pray the rest of your mini's foal textbook. Yeah, that's in our wildest dreams! Mini's don't follow books. With that in mind, I pray all mommas and babies come out of this happy, healthy, and alive!


----------



## blazingstarranch

Thank you all! Yes, the dentist visit didn't go well at all lol. For some reason he only numbed my cheek...suffice it to say that it wasn't quite enough. Oh well, getting better every day!

Yes, it was tough losing our first two foals. When I was in the QH, Paint and Appy breeding world, we foaled out all kinds of mares, including a 17hh halter mare that acted like she was going to die giving birth to a 58lb foal. We named the foal Nugget, and he never reached 14 hands hahaha. I have foaled out hundreds of big mares, but mini's are a whole new ball game. I too am SO thankful for this forum, it's both supportive and reassuring, and everyone is so knowledgeable and helpful!

The mare in my avatar is Trixie, a 31 inch silver dapple pinto. But I think the pic is a bit deceiving as the sun was going down and the light kind of shone on her. The mane and tail are both more of a dusky color. Then again, Trixie always photographs well lol.

So, just curious, any thoughts as to why Vickie only had a lilac color right before delivery or rather the fetotomy? I just want to learn everything I possibly can so I can help these girls out!



Thank you all!!!


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## cassie

its quite common for a mare to go VERY red behind just before foaling as the baby pushes on those parts causing pressure which increases the blood hence the colour change... the going lilac part has me a bit confused... I honestly am not sure about it sorry. maybe give your vet a call just to check? I sure want everything to go well for you with the next foals you have so I think its best to check with them if you can just to ease your mind (and ours



)


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## Eagle

If the mare has black skin they tend to go a darker red which could look lilac. Take a look at the site

http://www.crayonboxminiatures.com/Foalingsigns.html

Did it look like this?


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## blazingstarranch

I would say the pigment on the black mare on that sight was closer to our dark grulla mare, but Midnight is several shades lighter. Vickie is a palomino that is also dark skinned. Is it possible to not see dark red inside the vulva in a maiden mare? I SWEAR, Vickie had a light purple color, it never got very dark. But it was also a bad distocia.

Today all three girls have shown a great deal of udder development. They are all now between 40-60% full so we're getting excited!


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## crisco41

to you. Looks like you are on the homestretch.Prayers all goes well for you and your girls! Keep us posted!!


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## cassie

yay for good progress



can't wait for your happy news!


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## blazingstarranch

Okey dokey! more progress with the girls, mostly slow but steady. Babydoll is at 327 days, and lookin' good. Her vulva is so relaxed that when I open it I can see in much farther(sorry that's kinda gross haha). Her tail head is soft all around her tail. No major color change to the vulva, just a shade darker so more of a rosy color. I think when she's been laying down for a while seems to be when the lilac color shows. Her udder is 50% and harder, milk is a little sticky but can only get a few drops. It was an amber color, now it's clear-opaque. And I don't know if you can see them, but she has big ole veins popping out along the bottom of her stomach. What do you guys think of her V and everything else?

Lastly, I added pics of the other two due now for fun-I don't see anything to worry about just yet...

I want these babies to come sooooo badly, who cares about the color or gender! Just bouncing baby foals!!!!


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## eagles ring farm

Looks like your making progress

let me caution you the maidens may not show many signs

our maiden this year was not very relaxed nor did she have hardly any bag just a little

she foaled at 326 days. Any mare can be sneaky but maidens can be even worse

I was going to put the buzzer on her the night after she foaled

so lucky we caught it. I should say my husband caught it

Prayers that the rest of your foaling season is a happy and healthy one


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## blazingstarranch

Hello all! We're having a beautiful day here, but Babydoll is NOT feeling it at all. She's miserable. Not rolling, not walking, just standing in a corner of her turnout lot looking like she may not even know where she is anymore. I checked her female parts and had a few surprises. Namely though, the inside of her vulva. I want to make sure we have everything ready, and I especially want to be there for her. All we care about is a healthy foal after such a tragic start to the year. What does everyone think of her today?

Thank you all, as always you're awesome, supportive and extremely funny to boot!


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## SummerTime

Well, I'm still new at this, so don't take my opinion to the bank!! BUT... To me when I first looked at the picture of her side it "looks" front of center like Diane calls it. I could almost see the babies position for some strange reason, I'm sure I am totally wrong, I don't want to make you nervous. Diane!!! Am I wrong??


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## blazingstarranch

Thanks so much! I'm just learning with these mini's myself! They are so different from their larger counterparts, so I'm trying to get up to speed as much as I can! It's so NERVE WRACKING!!!!


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## Eagle

Can you take a pic from behind so we can if she is wide still. Thanks


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## blazingstarranch

Here is a pic from behind. She looks lopsided because she's got a hip cocked....she refuses to stand up straight today lol.


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## SummerTime

OHHH YEAH!! Sick and severely sleep deprived, and I managed to get this one right! Woo Hoo for me!!


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## AnnaC

Well done Mindy!! Tummy will still move a bit further forward and she needs to do a bit more shopping to separate those teats, but all that could happen quickly!


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## blazingstarranch

We finally have our first foal! After almost NO labor symptoms, Onyx had a 3 minute delivery and popped out a very healthy filly like it was no big deal. Our signs were pawing, laying down one time then back up, and some muscle twitching and yawning. Her milk had tested at 7.6 4 hours earlier, there was NO vulva color change and it was not fully relaxed, and while her tail head was soft, it was by no means pointy.

This filly is a dream come true! She appears to be a silver black, but could be a smokey black. She has a strong silver sheen to her body, black mane and tail. Mama is a silver bay, daddy is black.

Her name is Blazing Stars Black Velvet, and her coat is velvety. She's so sweet, and Onyx is the best mama ever. After such a tragic start to the year, we feel truly blessed.

Pics to come soon!


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## little lady

Congrats!! Looking forward to pics.


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## 

FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

She sounds like a sneaky mare -- so you'll know what to expect next time -- and I can't WAIT to see the pictures of the little beauty!!

Her signs of pawing, laying down one time then back up, and some muscle twitching and yawning are all good signs. Her milk testing at 7.6 only 4 hours earlier is why we watch that pH. That is SOME drop in 4 hours! More than I've ever had here -- so she's set a new record for the Nutty Nursery as well!


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## lexischase

How exciting! Congratulations I can hardly wait to see photos of her and mom!!!


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## Gone_Riding

Oh, my! I'm so glad that it went smoothly for all three of you (Mom, Baby, & You)!




I am excited to see pictures!


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## Eagle

Congrats, I can't wait for pics


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## palsminihorses

*Congratulations! *So happy all went well too! Looking forward to pictures of your new filly!


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## AnnaC

Many congratulations!! Looking forward to the pictures.


----------



## 

WHERE ARE THOSE PICTURES???????



We're all anxious to see the new little one!


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## Gone_Riding

She's too busy playing with her to take them!


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## blazingstarranch

Here is little Velvet and her mama. After looking at her more thoroughly, I think she's black. What do you guys think?


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## blazingstarranch

Sorry for taking so long everyone!!! And yes, I was playing with the filly lol. She's so fuzzy and soft and cute I can't help it! We have all been in love here!!!


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## AnnaC

I'm no good with colours but will say that she is just soooooooooooo cute!! Congratulations again!!


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## 

Just LOVE that little nose!! And yes, my vote is black like daddy -- who is quite the stunner himself! Just a lovely little girl!!!! CONGRATULATIONS again!!


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## targetsmom

Congratulations! I would guess black with a hint of splash from her nose marking.


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## rubyviewminis

What a cutie patootie! Love her matching to mama nose mark! I don't blame you, I don't know how these humans can restrain themselves from mauling those beautiful, adorable foals! Thank you again for helping peek in at Missy.


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## eagles ring farm

congrats on your beautiful little girl. Love the nose white. My vote is also black


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## SummerTime

Awww Sooo Cute! Congrats!


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## Eagle

Ahhh, she is just such a little sweat heart.


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## lexischase

She is so darn cute. I love her marking like her momma!


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## Gone_Riding

She is so adorable! I can see why you named her velvet! That fuzz looks so addicting!


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## blazingstarranch

We are thrilled with her. She gets mauled constantly lol. And she's so inquisitive and sweet! Velvet wasn't even completely dry when it was decided she will live here forever! Next year we will have only a few foals planned and will be maintaining our focus on lessons for children and some community service. We think she would be a perfect addition!


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## blazingstarranch

Next up is Babydoll and she is HOT on the heels of Onyx! She's had a painfully full bag for weeks, and only just today could I get milk out off it and guess what! It's streaming out in thick squirts and her teats are full. So I tested and BAM-6.4.



I'm shocked and excited, and needless to say, she gets the first foaling stall now. I brought her inside immediately so she can't be sneaky and have it in the mud. We have tons of mud from a big snowstorm earlier this week.

Her rump is soft but no pointy tail bone showing (is it just me or are my mares too fat? lol), her vulva is relaxed but not overtly so, and the inside is only a shade darker, looking slightly flushed. Her udder is the size of a jersey cow tho hahaha....





I'm so excited and will keep you all posted!


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## AnnaC

Ooooooo how exciting!! My mares never get the 'tail bone' look, they do feel 'squidgy', and yes they are 'well covered' (fat!), but in my opinion, if you get a real tail bone look on a mare, then she is not/has not been receiving enough food prior to foaling anyway.

Wishing you good luck and sending prayers for a safe smooth foaling and a healthy baby.


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## blazingstarranch

HOLY COW!!! So....testing at 6.4 means, DON'T GO TO THE GROCERY STORE, YOUR DAUGHTER'S PULLUPS CAN WAIT!!!

Babydoll gave birth right as I was pulling in the driveway, I opened the door and heard all the other mares whinnying like crazy. She gave birth to a filly, and she has grey eyes. I believe she is a buckskin, I will take pics and post as soon as I can.

Mama is in a lot of pain and doesn't stand up for long, I gave her banamine and she did deliver the placenta in tact. I just need to keep a close eye on her.

So far so good, and so, so excited!


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## Eagle

Congratulations,



come on! we want pics


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## eagles ring farm

wow congrats so glad all went well

looking forward to pictures


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## blazingstarranch

Here she is! Blazing Star's Chantilly Lace "Lacy" a buckskin filly born 2:30pm April 20. She's up and nursing, looking great! Mama is a little better, the vet is a friend of mine and will come out if need be. She is SO adorable and we are, of course, thrilled times TWO lol.







And a few more of Velvet:


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## 

CONGRATULATIONS!!!! TWO precious little ones safely on the ground!!

Don't forget to post their pictures in our baby album!!


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## SummerTime

Congrats! She is gorgeous! So happy it went good!


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## AnnaC

Many congratulations - what a cute little girl, and her colour is a bonus!


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## Eagle

ahhh what a little cutie, no wonder you are over the moon


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## targetsmom

Congrats!!! Wow, two live healthy fillies in one weekend - that is just amazing!!!!! Can't get much better than that. I guess the wait was worth it? I know you got off to a rough start so I hope this helps to heal that pain.


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## blazingstarranch

Thank you all!!! Yes, it's been a whirlwind and we are so very grateful for these two angels! It's funny, you wait and wait and wait...your hair turns gray from it. Then BAM, BABIES!!!


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## blazingstarranch

We had another terrible loss this morning. Midnight, whose due date was in question, went into labor this morning at 9 a.m. She is a maiden mare, and had very little bag. Part of the placenta presented first, and it was also a bad dystocia. The foal was completely backwards. The vet had to be called again, he had a tough time with the delivery and ended up delivering the entire placenta first. The filly was so tiny that even pulling her back feet first was not that hard to do. She didn't even have hair :-( I'm sorry this is so graphic everyone, I'm still in shock. In all the years and over a hundred foals I've assisted in being born, never have I ever seen so many complications and such a high mortality rate.

Luckily, Midnight seems to be doing well so far. We will keep a close eye on her, keep her on antibiotics and banamine and pray for healing.

We are now 2 live and 3 that were not. I sure hope our last two mares will be ok, one is due in a few weeks and all I can do is pray really, really hard.


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## Eagle

I am so sorry, my heart goes out to you.


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## SummerTime

No! You poor thing! I am so sorry.


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## chandab

Your two healthy, live fillies are just too cute.

So sorry about the angel foals. Its so hard on all of us.


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## AnnaC

I'm so very sorry - sending my heartfelt sympathies and ((((HUGS)))).

Hope Midnight has a speedy recovery, bless her.


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## targetsmom

I am so sorry and send hugs. Hope Midnight has a full recovery. Many of us on here know what you are going through and why they say breeding minis is not for the faint of heart.


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## cassie

Congratulations on your beautiful little fillies!! I am so very sorry to hear of your loss, you poor thing.

Hope midnight recovers soon. Hugs and prayers going out to you and your family.


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## MyGoldenSunny

So sorry for your loss, hope midnight will be ok.


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## Gone_Riding

Yeah! Two safely on the ground...and up!!!!


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## rubyviewminis

Congratulations on your healthy fillies. I am so sorry for your loss. I don't know if I could bear that happening to me. Lots of hugs.


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## blazingstarranch

Thank you all so much for the support. I know you've all been through this before. We are very happy to have our two little fillies, and they're strong, healthy and beautiful. I see how strong you all are and have so much admiration. Most of you have been doing this for years and are very wise. We are going to stay on track and work toward our last two mares-Lady and Trixie. Lady is developing a nice udder, and has a nice "V" as well. She's also had a healthy foal before so we are looking forward to another healthy and pretty baby on the ground!


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## eagles ring farm

I'm so sorry for your loss and hope Midnight is doing well

It is so hard when you lose a foal but if your mares ok that's the important part now.

hope your babies on the ground help you smile again once the nerves pass and your next to foalings are textbook


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## 

So we need a few more pictures of the gorgeous babies, then some of the upcoming mommas!!!!

Can't wait!


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## blazingstarranch

Good morning all! I thought I might post a link to a youtube video of Onyx and little Velvet. This video is long (15 minutes) and it's of Velvet trying to sort out her legs and make them work lol. I will get new pics of the two new girls up too, and then later pics of the two pregnant mares still due. One is the mare in my avatar, that's Trixie. More pics coming!

Here's Velvet:


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## blazingstarranch

Here's the babies! They are doing well, and growing so fast!


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## MountainWoman

What beautiful babies!


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## 

Still watching the video~!

Isn't it funny how some mare's "flight response" is so strong, and they want that baby up on it's feet? They know this down time makes baby vulnerable -- and she's doing everything in her power to get this little beauty up and safe!


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## palsminihorses

Your fillies are beautiful! Love that snip on the 'smokey black?' filly! And the little buckskin is adorable too! Congrats, and best wishes for safe foaling for your other two mares!

So sorry about your loss. Yes, most of us have been through it before. But it hurts just as badly each time. HUGS!


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## blazingstarranch

Sorry about the lengthy video haha. My friend's son wanted to play with movie maker so I had nothing to do with it. The next videos will be, um, shorter.

Next on our list is Absolute Golds Rebels Lady in Love. She is a palomino daughter of Lucky Fours Rebels Reflection, a granddaughter of Sid's Rebel on her sire's side...her dam's sire is Del Teras Snowman. She is 32 inches tall, and a proven broodmare. This sweet mare is coming along nicely. I can't help but wonder though, with her due date being May 15 (the ONLY one I know for sure as she was exposed for one week starting June 15 and kept very carefully away from the stallion...it seems she's not as large as our other mares have been and she's one of the smallest we have. I feel fetal movement and yesterday the foal was really kicking. Her udder is coming along, and I can only get a tiny amount of milk out of her.

Then we have Rimrock Ranch's Tigers Tiny Treasure. She's 31 inches tall and a silver black tobiano mare. She is also a proven broodmare and has had several foals. She is heavily Komoko bred and her sire goes to X Caliber and J JS Little Macho. We don't know her due date, as we bought her last fall, and she was supposed to be due in November. When I palpated her in January after seeing her not coming along, I was able to discern that she was pregnant but the foal was still most likely earlier in her 2nd trimester. She looks to be in her final trimester but a due date is completely unknown. The sire of this foal is also unknown, but it's either a cremello or a 27 inch tobiano. We shall see.

I will post pics in a little while and would love opinions!


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## blazingstarranch

Whew! I finally got it together enough to get some pics of Lady up for all to see. They were taken yesterday. Luckily our weather has been nice, but this Thursday it's supposed to be cold and snowing-so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the time she picks to have her baby lol. I'm not even sure anymore how I'm still conscious... :thud:Something interesting about Lady, she's registered palomino but her dam is a buckskin and her sire is registered as a grey. But a lot of the sires other foals are silver black, silver bay and a few silver buckskins. Also, her dam has had multiple foals, and two that I found were buckskins, one full sister was a silver bay, and another full sister was black. So....is it possible she is some other color? She's shedding out much darker, especially on her legs, and has a lot of silver in her tail. Hard to tell in these pics. She's also just 31 inches tall. I would love to hear opinions on this!!! Here she is!





And a pic of little Lacey, our spitfire....


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## chandab

The sire is probably a silver black (silver dapple), many are registered as grey.

Its still quite possible that your mare is palomino, I don't see the silvery-cast you typically see with silver blacks or even silver buckskins, but the only way to be positive is to test.


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## blazingstarranch

Hello all! No changes in Lady or Trixie right now, but I wanted to see a MUCH shorter video involving our little bucksin filly when she was only minutes old.

I promise, it's short, lol.


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## 

OMG how cute it that!!!! We'll take many more videos!!!

So, are you saying she's getting the dark stockings? If so, she could be a silver bay (I had a very light one once that tested bay) or silver buckskin -- but I don't see the dark in the pictures.


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## blazingstarranch

Lady came to us last year and she never shed her bleached out palomino coat. She came from Texas. She had this rough, wiry hair all over. This year she is shedding out like crazy and is so much darker on her legs than her neck, face and topline. It's hard to tell in the pics but I will try to get more. Could be my horse color obsession is causing me to see things that aren't there!


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## Eagle

If that was possible I would be seeing spots everywhere



Thanks for sharing the great video


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## blazingstarranch

Well we have been waiting a very long time for Trixie, our last mare of the year. She has finally shown some good changes. Bag is full, only one drop of clear milk tonight, from none though so pretty promising. Her belly has dropped into position or most of the way there, because from behind I can barely see it. Belly is even, no lopsidedness. Tail head is slightly softer, loose poops, lack of appetite and of course, the mucous plug. It's on her vulva, in her tail, so pretty lol. She seems relaxed but some tail holding so we shall see!


----------



## cassie

oooh exciting! doesn't sound like it will be long!! safe foaling for your last baby for the year! love the little video of Lacey! that is too gorgeous!


----------



## 

Sounding VERY exciting!!! Keep us posted!


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## Eagle

Oh how exciting, Happy camping tonight



and safe foaling


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## eagles ring farm

sounds like it won't be long now ---safe foaling


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## AnnaC

Sending prayers for a safe easy foaling!


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## LittleRibbie

Both beautiful heartwarming videos to cherish. Thank you for taking and sharing with us. Sounds like to night may just be the night...wishing you lots of luck and happy foaling....see if you can get your great video person on speed dial again. ...!!!


----------



## 

Praying for a safe and uneventful foaling of a healthy little one. Can't wait to hear!


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## blazingstarranch

Good morning! No news yet, she's waiting for just the right moment. You know, the moment that only she knows. The moment when no one is looking...


----------



## LittleRibbie

O.K. No ones looking...you can have it now!!!


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## Eagle

Not looking


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## AnnaC

No peeking here either!!


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## 

I'm not looking.................much~!


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## LittleRibbie

Too funny !!!


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## blazingstarranch

Well folks, nothing to report yet except that she is quieter and has lost her appetite. That's concerning because all our other mares just hoovered their feed up no problem right up until minutes before foaling! Any thoughts?????


----------



## Eagle

Each horse is different so I wouldn't worry about it


----------



## AnnaC

A lot of mares go off their feed in late pregnancy - the foal is pretty full sized by then and there is not much 'stomach' room available. Try giving her a few very small feeds to see if she will cope, but as long as she is getting plenty of grass/hay to nibble at plus her minerals and vitamins, she wont come to any harm.


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## blazingstarranch

She barely touches her hay, just a few nibbles, and just a few nibbles of grain. Her food looks like it hasn't been touched at all. I'm hoping tonight is the night, I worry too much I know, but we just want everything to go well!


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## lexischase

I am hoping for you!! How about some new photos, when you have the chance of course! I am praying for a safe and easy delivery!!


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## LittleRibbie

Sending prayers for a safe delivery....your not worrying too much....your just being cautious and a good horse mommy


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## eagles ring farm

any news? ...prayers for a safe foaling


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## blazingstarranch

Trixie, ah Trixie. I have no news to report at all. If anything, she looks less pregnant now! I saw baby kicking a week ago so I know she is preggers. Milk testing at 7.8 to 8. Her udder is nothing to write home about. She's driving me bonkers!!!


----------



## LittleRibbie

Oh you poor thing...why of why do they make us wait like this....I feel so sorry for ya!!


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## Eagle

How about some pics?


----------



## 




----------



## blazingstarranch

Hello everybody! Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I just don't have anything to report. Her milk is testing at 7.8 or so, her calcium in around a 1000. It's been weeks since she lost her mucous plug, and at that time she went off her fee and seemed depressed. Now she seems fine with a voracious appetite. No funny discharge or fever but I haven't been able to feel the baby move. In the mean time, does anyone have any suggestions, and should I feel concernced?

Here are some pics of little Lacey, all shaved down and looking gorgeous!


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## LittleRibbie

Shes pretty as can be....purple halter for royalty!! Love the first picture!!


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## AnnaC

Oh she is sooooooooooooooo pretty! Now we need some pics of Trixie.


----------



## 

Just BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!

As Anna said, now Trixie!


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## blazingstarranch

Hello everyone! So sorry for not being in touch better. Things have been crazy. We had a wildfire nearby and had a few refugees. Then we found out that our Gypsy Vanner stallion is likely a carrier of Polysaccharide Storage Myopethy and is being tested. If he is positive, he needs a special diet and to be immediately gelded. My boss loses her entire investment!



He is such a nice boy, I hate to see him go through this but we will try to manage his symptoms. At least he will be comfortable and make a lovely pet.

Trixie is coming along albeit very slowly. Her milk is testing at 7.5 now...and I can't find my camera!!! Aaaaaaaaa!!!! I promise that as soon as my camera turns up I will take pics of her, hopefully it will be before she foals...or at least before her foal is weaned


----------



## 

So sorry to hear about the stallion. But thank you for being a good breeder and ending that problem. Are there any potential foals of his upcoming that they can test for the problem. I don't know much about it, but I was just wondering if testing can be done in-utero. How 'bout a picture of the handsome boy? Vanner are such gorgeous horses....

And we HOPE you can find that camera BEFORE the foal is here! LOL


----------



## blazingstarranch

We have two mares bred to him, and we are just waiting to see if the stallion is a carrier. Yes, his foals could have it. They are both too far along to terminate, which is such an awful choice to have to make. If the stallion is a carrier the foals could have it. If that's the case, they may end up being permanent fixtures here as well unless we can find a home for them that will provide them with the proper care and of COURSE, they will be sterilized as well. We have been devastated by this, but we have to be responsible as breeders.

Here is


Aragon:


----------



## 

Oh, he is lovely!!! Praying that all turns out well for you.


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## lexischase

Oh my goodness, he is gorgeous!!! Hoping he is not a carrier.


----------



## AnnaC

What a beautiful boy! Really hoping that the two expected foals will be 'clear'. So sorry that this has happened, will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.


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## blazingstarranch

Trixie gave birth last night to a huge filly. The birth was difficult, and there was hip lock. I could feel joints popping as I gently pulled. Even without me pulling and just supporting the foal, there were popping sounds. When she started to try to stand she was very weak. All her legs seem to have a lot of laxity to them. Her hind legs are especially bad. Her right hind leg is not working properly and she is dragging it some. Sometimes the leg gets crossed over the back of the other and it just stays that way. And her stifle joint on that side has bony enlargement as well as soft tissue swelling. There is a lot of play from side to side in the joint.

Have any of you dealt with this? It seems part of the problem is her size compared to her 30 inch mother. She has at least 8.5 inch cannons but don't have a proper measurement. I've seen this some in larger breeds but never this severe. Thanks for any input you have and I will post pics soon!


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## 

Do you have pictures of the filly -- that would help.

A hip lock is a difficult birth on the baby (as well as momma), but it sounds like you acted quickly and brought that little one safely to the ground! KUDOS for your quick thinking!!

With a difficult birth like that, and the swelling, I would immediately contact your vet and get her started on some prophylactic antibiotics. Joint ill in a newborn can be very dangerous, and I'm sure the swelling is from the gentle pulling, etc, But, there is no use taking a chance with a newborn.

I truly believe, that if you can get her up nursing, and allow her some freedom of movement, her little legs should gain strength and begin to tone up and straighten up. She may have displaced her little hip -- or it's sore from the pressure of momma pushing that hip bone into momma's hip bone.

The key is to make sure she's nursing every hour -- don't let her decide to sleep instead of eat. This first day or two is important to get her colostrum level up, and give her the strength to get moving around on those legs. The crossing of the legs is not that worrisome to me, as all newborns do some very strange things as they "get their legs under themselves" -- so I think with a bit of time (a couple of weeks at least) you will see a magical change in her.

I had a 28" mare who produced a filly who was 21" at birth. The greatest problem was milking that momma and feeding baby for 4 days, until I could teach that little one to kneel to find the milk bar. But, with time she figured it out, and all was well. Her teeny momma had an udder like a dairy cow, and was hanging so low, I could barely teach the little one to almost "go to ground" to find the nipples.

Pictures please, and let's give this little one a couple of weeks to exercise and strengthen her muscles, joints and legs before you get to worrying too much.


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## AnnaC

Oh dear, I hope Trixie is ok? Sounds as though you made a great save, thank goodness you were there for the birth - well done you!!

As Diane says, a little help from your vet for the new filly would be a good idea just as a precaution, and yes, do make sure that she gets the colostrum she needs even if you have to keep syringing small amounts into her every hour.

Again like Diane, I wouldn't be too concerned about her legs and joints at this stage - she has survived an enormous trauma. Just give her time and the outside space to move about and gain strength naturally - you will be amazed at the difference a couple of weeks can make.

Good luck - and would love to see some pics when you have time.


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## blazingstarranch

Hello all. Update on the new filly:

We have started her on Baytril(sp?) and probiotics. She is moving around a little better and her stifle has less swelling. She still doesn't have very good use of her legs but she is trying to use them. I have included a few pics for you to see.

We're just keeping our fingers crossed but she is so sweet and has a very strong will to live!


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## LittleRibbie

Bless her....poor little thing..I hope she will continue to improve..little by little. Glad to read Dixie is doing good. Prayers heading your way.


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## 

Love the pictures of your baby girl, and they REALLY help.

In my opinion, she appears to be "windswept" -- and that's a VERY curable condition. The key to these babies who were "tight" inside momma, and unable to move about, is to make sure baby nurses. They need to make sure they are getting all the good nutrition from momma, and are making the effort to nurse.

The rest comes as they begin to use their legs more and more. She is looking good to me, even though the legs seem "funky". Her strength comes from momma's milk -- that's the critical thing. With momma's good milk and her becoming stronger and stronger, and using her legs, I truly believe that you will begin to see more and more postive changes and the legs coming up and straightening.

I've had a foal born here whose knees bent completely backwards in the front and somewhat in the back -- looked like his legs were turned around. He could barely support himself, but I made sure he nursed regularly and often, and allowed him movement in the outside small paddock with only his momma. She hardly left his side, but with him following her around -- even in short distances -- he quickly gained strength and the legs began to straighten and the rump started lifting into place.

Praying for her continued improvement -- and I truly believe that she will come around and be a beautiful, and perfect little filly.

I would try to give them some time outside the stall. Even if she has some difficulties, it will give her some "straight lines" to walk that are important to her gaining strength.

Keep us posted. We love her alot!!!


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## AnnaC

Thanks for the pictures - she's cute and as you say a fighter! Her front legs dont look too bad to me, and I think most of the problem with the back ones is due to the trauma of her birth - as she gains in strength and given time I'm sure they will improve. Am posting a few pics of a filly we had several years ago. Her back legs were 'crouched' but not as bad as your filly - ours had a normal birth - but thought the front legs might interest you? Pics are of one or two days after birth, then approx 7 days, a couple of months, yearling and lastly 2 year old. Hope these help you.


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## blazingstarranch

Hello all, I had a question regarding our little filly. Her right stifle is still puffy and she doesn't move well. She is just now able to pick up each leg and take steps with her back legs but she is still very weak in her back end. Now her right front knee is wobbling and swollen. You can see it moving in a direction that the knee is not supposed to move. I was going to put on a soft splint but am unsure about it. I'm also worried that maybe she has some kind of condition or disease. Any thoughts? I just want this little girl to be healthy!

Thank you all!!!


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## 

This is just my opinion, but I don't like what I'm hearing. Swollen joints can be indicative of "joint ill" which can be dangerous to her survival. She must be on medications in order to survive -- if this is what it is. I would have a vet examine her immediately and begin some type of treatment. I don't mean to scare you, but I'm a little scared for her right now.

Is she running a temperature? Is she drinking well? PLEASE get her examined....I'm praying for her


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## blazingstarranch

Yes, she has been on antibiotics since the day after she was born. The vet put her on Baytril I believe. She has less swelling in her stifle than when she was born. And her right front knee is not really swollen, just slight puffiness. The vet said that her tendons are all too lax, and wanted her front legs wrapped for support and continue the Baytril as a precaution. Her appetite is very good, and she is very strong. She just doesn't get around like a healthy foal. Each day has been an improvement except for the knee. I wonder, is she just over compensating too much with her front legs? And is it an issue of laxity in all her tendons? Just not happy with things so far.


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## AnnaC

Am glad to hear that there has been some improvement in her legs, but I too would have been hoping for a little more by now. I'm still not keen on the idea of wrapping legs unless absolutely necessary - too much posibility of the wraps slipping, even a little, and doing more damage than if they had never been used in the first place.

What about trying that product that in the UK we call Foal Assist (think you call it Rejuvenade or something that - perhaps someone else will give you its name?) it is a brilliant 'additive' for 'weak' foals and has been proved very successful in a lot of cases with weakness in the limbs. It comes as a syringe - not cheap I'm afraid - and you will need at least 2 weeks worth I think (2 to 3 syringes), at least to start with. I have used it with success on a foal born with weak fetlocks so may be worth a try for your little girl??


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## 

WHEW! I'm so glad she is a strong little one! And that she's been on antibiotics. That's great news. I guess I forgot -- forgive the old auntie.

How about a new picture of her? I'd love to see how she's changed, and maybe it will give us some more ideas.

If she's strong and eating, then that is such a positive!!


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## blazingstarranch

Here is our little Kasha!


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## AnnaC

Well from those pictures I would say that she has made a lot of improvement! But I do realise that we are not seeing her move. I still suggest you try the Rejuvenade plus (and I'm not sure if she is too young yet) would there be a chiro practitioner (or similar) anywhere near you who could pop in and have a gentle feel at her hips/stifle in case there is some misplacement?

Meanwhile, keep up what you are doing with plenty of outside time included - do you have a grass pasture available that she and Trixie could use - just thinking that wandering, nibbling at the grass might help put her body in one of the 'natural' positions for a foal. (Am just throwing out ideas here as they flow into my mind!




)


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## 

Oh yes! She's made tremendous improvements. Hardly looks like the same little girl!!

I don't know anything about the Rejuvenade Plus, but it seems she's steadily improving. I'd try to check out what Anna has said.

If you don't have grass areas, try sprinkling their hay around in different places on the ground, and she should wander about nibbling. I'm very pleased with the positive changes she's making, and perhaps just more time will continue to help her improve.


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## blazingstarranch

Thank you for the suggestions. We don't have even one grass patch here, but I will throw their hay around on the ground like you suggested. Thanks again!


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## eagles ring farm

What a little beauty. So thrilled she seems to be showing a steady improvement.


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## paintponylvr

So how is she (Kasha) doing now? Pics? Hope she is continuing to get stronger!

don't you also have another mare getting ready to foal? the black and the buckskin... Did the tests come back on Aragon yet? How long do they take? When are his two foals due?


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