# Time to choose a cart



## Foxhaven (Nov 19, 2013)

Well, it's been about 6 months of successfully ground driving Legend. He has a solid whoa, OK stand (gotta work on that), turns well, beautiful slow trot (he trots steadily the entire mile loop by our house and that is his favorite gait.... butter smooth, that is what really turned me on to him when looking). He (and I) love walking in the woods, jumping logs and climbing rocks (halter, not in harness... harness has been dirt road and pavement). He knows there are elk in there some days and calls to them. In other words... adventuresome boy. Just like Dad I guess.

I started looking at carts. I'm not sure what KIND of driving we want to do, but CDE seems like a good fit, I gotta do more research. I love wooden carts WAY more than metal/wire wheel/EZ entry. I'm not small (190, 5'11") and Legend is 34", so not only is weight a strong consideration but frankly I think men can look a bit goofy behind an A mini when they tower over them when seated... I just like the flow of a lower cart, closer to a sulky. And they are light. I want Legend to have a good time, not dread the hills (of which there are MANY in Evergreen CO).

Currently using the basic Ozark harness with breeching, no martingale, sidecheck/ leather check bit, and snaffle (Legend did not care for the mullen recommended by my farrier).

What are your thoughts / experiences / suggestions?


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## disneyhorse (Nov 19, 2013)

I've never driven on one, but at the top of my wish list is a country road cart from Country Carriages USA. If I had somewhere to store it, I would have it by now






Countrycarriagesusa.com


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## Foxhaven (Nov 19, 2013)

Gee that's nice... but at 175 lbs. way too heavy I think. Not to mention over $2K. REALLY nice though!

Silver Penney's road carts are advertised at around 112 lbs. and less expensive, look to be comparable. They still sit high... would a lower seat height be inadvisable? Would a roadster closer to a sulky just be a bad choice?

Mini Express' wooden cart weighs 87 lbs. ... wow. Not wooden wheels but reasonable. Their Meadowbrook is 123 lbs., seems on the heavy side given my concerns. Their economy show card sure looks nice, 75 lbs. though wire wheels. Affordable.

I suppose I am just throwing ideas out there for comment.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 19, 2013)

You might check out Buggy Bob's website. He has some product on the Little Horse Barn but is apparently willing to work with people to be sure they get what they want and what will work for them. I have no personal experience with them so I can't offer any experienced input but it might be worth you time and trouble. If I had the money and could find one I would be looking for a Pacific Smart Cart. Unfortunately it would have to be a used one since I understand they are no longer in business. Good luck finding just the right cart/wagon for you and your horse.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 19, 2013)

So, curious... what would the downside of a Hyperbike be? I know it is not recommended for a green horse... But I just have to believe that for the majority of our driving together, Legend would love it. And that, in the end, has to carry the most weight. _And I won't look like a big lunk sitting behind a toy horse... LOL_

I guess I'd have to revisit this again if I wanted to compete in CDE though. I will have to (obviously) research the regulations.


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## rbrown (Nov 19, 2013)

I love, love, love my Hyperbike! I drive it almost daily, sometimes twice a day. I use it on the marathon portion for CDEs, and use a Bellcrown for dressage/cones. The only drawback of the 'bike for me is that I can't use it in all 3 phases



(I suppose you technically might be able to- anyone know the answer?) I like my Bellcrown, and it's really a lovely cart, but I only use it when I'm actively competing. I find the Hyperbike more comfortable and much more fun for daily driving.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 19, 2013)

I have an old sulky that I use for training. I really enjoy tooling in it and feel safer in it than in the cart. Being up close to the horse seems safer to me than sitting up higher and farther away. So the Hyperbike sounds good to me. I'd like to try one sometime. The downside is getting in and out. If the horse won't stand, it could be hazardous if one is not quick and agile.

Also, one cannot take passengers except in a cart.

You are farsighted to think of the weight.


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## horsenarounnd (Nov 19, 2013)

Look at the Fox Lane carts. They are metal construction, EZ entry with steel spoke wheels. Very well made carts, and are adjustable in many ways, shaft height, shaft length, seat. We have 2, bought one last year and liked it so much we bought another one. I've used it in an ADS show and took reserve champion, so it is a good enough cart to show, yet strong enough for all kinds of driving. Made in Ohio. Check them out!


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## Foxhaven (Nov 20, 2013)

Marsha Cassada said:


> I have an old sulky that I use for training. I really enjoy tooling in it and feel safer in it than in the cart. Being up close to the horse seems safer to me than sitting up higher and farther away. So the Hyperbike sounds good to me. I'd like to try one sometime. The downside is getting in and out. If the horse won't stand, it could be hazardous if one is not quick and agile.
> 
> Also, one cannot take passengers except in a cart.
> 
> You are farsighted to think of the weight.


It's so hilly here, and Legend is an A size, that I couldn't imagine him pulling 120lbs of cart, 190 lbs (probably 210 with clothing and gear and coat and breakfast...) of me, PLUS a passenger... I've thought of hooking him up to an English harrow I have in the future, but probably only one section of THAT.

I know I mentioned liking wood construction, but I would have to say I'm starting to lean toward the Hyperbike. Just hard to argue with 30 lbs. and a low slung aspect. I'd say the Mini Express economy show cart is in my rankings too but triple the weight.

The Fox Lane carts look quite nice, I was looking at those.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 20, 2013)

Hmmm, came across this. I know nothing about Estate carts. If I *were* to go with an easy entry style, this would be nice. 98 lbs, awfully light for wood with wooden wheels. Elliptical springs. Attractive price, maybe too attractive?






This is 60 lbs. Nice price. Can't be much suspension?


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 21, 2013)

I had a meadowbrook. It was way too heavy for my guy on hills rather inflexible and I regretted buying it and sold it. It also had a rather high swing tree and even installed upside down wasn't low enough for where I wanted the swing tree to be for pulling ease. I don't regret not having the meadowbrook however it was cute as the dickens.

I have a aerocrown I saved and saved for, but there is an upper weight limit recommendation for the driver you would want to check on before you decided on the aerocrown, the bellcrown might better suit your wishes for an all around cart for all phases, the springs on both the aerocrown and bellcrown have a nice ride not to mention the strength of the wheels.

For tough terrain you might not want the bicycle style tires, they can fold and are not recommended for heavy turning and CDE work even with no flat inserts.

For a bit my boy enjoys a straight bit with copper mouth piece and very low port and he hated any snaffle I tried. Bits differ from horse to horse and I admit to trying a few before I found the right bit. Be sure you have a current dental on your horse. Very important.

On that top cart you posted, the swing tree is still a bit high for what my trainer recommended for cross country and hills.. but it is a very nice cart.

I am a hyperbike fan even though I don't have one due to my limited flexiblity and my boys training issues at the time I went with the aerocrown rather than the hyperbike but I still admire them greatly and Bob Carriage works is awesome to work with. I still look at his web site and oogle the photos of folks enjoying their hyperbikes.

Ps on that second cart, it is very pretty, I know you are not supposed to use the back rest per say, but I enjoy a nice supportive back rest which is why I have the aerocrown with the high back seat. On your second cart photo, I would probably roll right off the back going up a steep hill. I would use that second cart for ring work and not cross country.

best wishes and happy driving


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## Foxhaven (Nov 21, 2013)

Yep, Legend had a recent bit float. It was quite amusing watching him go from perky to barely standing in 10 seconds after the sedative... he did really well and came right out of it. We have a great vet not far away, and from what I see around the board that is a blessing indeed.

So... your comment about the back rest... would that have a bearing on the hyperbike then?

Sounds like I should not write off the wooden EZ entry from Estate I posted. Nice looking rig and not terribly heavy for wood construction, or any construction.


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## jess - bentley (Nov 21, 2013)

I actually have the wooden easy entry cart that is in the picture. It is not to heavy, but much more heavy then the show carts. I used to use it for trail pleasure drives and found it very uncomfortable, felt like my brain was rattling out of my head on the trails lol! I am also not a fan of the metal easy entry carts. The Jerald, Graber and Houghton show carts ride the best! I even use mine on trails. The ride is smooth and the horses love pulling them because they are so light weight. I figure if it is comfortable for me it is probably much more comfortable for them too. They are also balanced really nice. The only draw back for trails is no back rest. Would a Graber open wheeled show cart also work for cde?

PS. The horse in your profile picture is gorgeous!


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## Foxhaven (Nov 21, 2013)

jess - bentley said:


> PS. The horse in your profile picture is gorgeous!


Thanks for the kind words... that is Legend. He is a pretty boy with a short back and great butter smooth trot.

And at the moment, has pinto pajamas (wooly sheep suit)... 

He came to us from Indian Peaks Miniatures in the Colorado front range, they did well with him in halter in 2011 but needed to thin their herd. Won a few championships. He is a Rowdy boy. I hardly deserve him.

He is a sweet boy to boot. Unlikely we will ever breed him but given his strengths and bloodline I just can't bring myself to geld him just yet. I find little behavioral reason to.


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 21, 2013)

Hyperbike back rest I am told is fantastic. I am old and not flexible and an easy entry vehicle was a must. My aerocrown goes over tractor waffle treads like it is floating. Fantastic suspension. 
Everybody that gets a hyperbike, loves the hyperbike. My instructor knowing me and my boy thought it wasn't the vehicle for me or my boy, but if I still can dream about it. It looks like the ride of your life to me.

My aerocrown was a decent second choice but the price makes me feel guilty because I don't drive enough to justify the pricetag.

the wooden cart pictured is a nice cart and would probably be one of my choices if I were cart shopping. The cool thing is that a decent built cart holds its value and there is nothing wrong with re evaluating and selling a cart and moving on to something better suited as you gain experience. My meadowbrook was just that cart.. cute and great for a first cart but as I got lessons I was ready to move on. Now as I drive less and less.. I think about that meadowbrook and less expensive carts that would do the job but not sit there making me cringe on what I spent. 
On the money though... the balance and ride of the aerocrown and how sturdy it is and how the wheels turn without any noise and how it corners and rides balanced and steady over all terrain.. well then it just begins to be well worth the money.

Lots to consider when choosing carts.

Your boy is gorgeous by the way. Reminds me of a biggie horse I once owned. Same color and neck but full sized. best wishes.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 22, 2013)

shorthorsemom said:


> Hyperbike back rest I am told is fantastic. ..
> 
> Your boy is gorgeous by the way. Reminds me of a biggie horse I once owned. Same color and neck but full sized. best wishes.


So far I am hearing NOTHING to dissuade me from the hyperbike...

Thanks again for the kind words. I sometimes daydream about Legend as a full size horse... Ooooo that trot. You could go for miles and not rearrange your kidneys... ;-) and he LOVES LOVES jaunts through the woods, jumping logs and rocks, checking out the sounds and sights... would make a great trail horse in another life.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 22, 2013)

Holy smokes... I just did a YouTube search on Hyperbikes and minis. There is a TINY little mini doing barrel racing. I compared that to barrel racing videos of bigger horses and EZ Entry carts... no comparison. Little Bill the - what, 28" mini? - SMOKES 'em.

OK, OK, I get the 'barrel racing is for girls' thing, but I am pretty secure in my manhood.. and I am an old dirt bike rider. THAT looks FUN! But with such an advantage, Hyperbikes surely are not legal?


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 22, 2013)

Talk to Bob about the Hyperbike. he is awesome and he is honest and will talk to you about anything you want to know. You will not be sorry you chatted directly with Bob on anything. He let me be a member of his "hyperbike club" even though i don't have one. Someday if I ever have a driving horse that is steadier than my driving boy I will probably revisit the hyperbike wish because where I live the hyperbike would be a perfect driving vehicle.

My full sized horse that looked like your horse had a long trot a rocking horse canter and he was my cross country and personal challenge trail horse. He was awesome and he could eat up ground and go all day. He was born on the 4th of July in the bicentenniel year and his name was Centennial.


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## rbrown (Nov 22, 2013)

No one here on the east coast has had a problem with me using the Bike on marathon for CDEs/HDTs/scurries, etc. You may need to buy solid wheels, as that's the only thing I've had to do to be CDE-legal when I moved up to Prelim. I always ask permission to use the Bike before events and no one has had a problem with it. You could email organizers of events in your area and see what they think about your using a Hyperbike. Sure, it'll give you an advantage during timed/speed events but hey, if it's legal, go for it!





If you're considering the Foxlane (which are really nice carts), I saw that they're on sale right now for $1000, which is a great price- just a heads-up.


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## Jetiki (Nov 24, 2013)

I have a silver penny wood cart that weighs roughly 100lbs, its nice, extremely comfortable ride and I have used it for all 3 phases, it has held up well with no issues other than its a 1 seater. I also have a moified sulky cart that I have used, however its issue is that its REALLY hard to keep the mandantory apron on as it has no basket yet. It is much more fun than the wood one, its lighter and we go faster, but the goal of CDE's is accuracy not really going fast.... too fast incurs penalties as does too slow. Its still a total blast to hit the water hazard at a canter and have water every where LOL.

Karen


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## KellyAlaska (Nov 24, 2013)

I have a stocky 36 inch pony and I bought the smart cart which turned out to be way too heavy. The ride is amazing and it seats two and will fit up to a 44 inch pony.(super adjustable) I purchased the hyperbike this summer and my pony seems to pull that one much easier. It has a super wide wheel base which is great for unstable trails. The ride is not nearly as smooth as the smart cart and it does seem to be quite a bit louder as well. My pony stands ok which makes getting in and out not my favorite experience but over all I like the hyperbike. Take a look at the Aerocrown I think that might be the best of both worlds. Super smooth quiet ride without all the weight.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 25, 2013)

Just spent a half hour talking to our local distributor for the Bellcrown/Aerocrown. Very knowledgeable guy, in fact he is a driving trainer to boot (so I might have checked off TWO to-dos with that one).

Unfortunately all I have determined at this point is that my budget keeps going up...




So if I need one cart to do it ALL that might NOT be the Hyperbike... Ugh.


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## hylights (Nov 25, 2013)

Hi all,

Can I jump in and ask a couple questions? Bill your boy is gorgeous, how tall is he?

I had an oversized mini years ago that I adored, started her in driving but stupidly traded her for a full sized horse, worst move I've made in horses. I have now found a home for said large horse and am going to look at a mini stallion, he may only be 32" and that's the only worry, I was thinking I wanted one 34-36" but this guy looks so nice in photos I have to go see him.

I had a wooden easy entry cart for the biggie and didn't like it, but mini's don't look like they have the bounce when trotting that the bigs have maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

I like the look of the Fox Lane carts, and the Frey Sprint and I've looked at the Ahonen.

But alas closest to me would be a Bellcrown dealer, if I wanted to actually go see and bring home a cart. What is the difference between a Aerocrown and a Minicrown?

Thanks,


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## KellyAlaska (Nov 25, 2013)

The frey carriage looks almost exactly the same as the Pacific smart cart. Even the website pictures look the same. If it is the same cart as the Smart cart you need to consider the size of your horse or pony. It is very adjustable and a great ride for the driver but it is very heavy for everyday use. If you are planning on driving in a flat place you will not have a problem. As soon as you introduce hills or additional passengers my pony starts to struggle. He is a stocky 300+ pound stallion that is a tough guy so I think a finer smaller horse would really have a hard time. The weight is hard for him to stop as well if the ground is uneven. The difference between the Mini crown and the Aerocrown is the seat size. The Aerocrown seats one and the Minicrown can seat 2 small adults or 1 adult and a child.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 26, 2013)

hylights said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Can I jump in and ask a couple questions? Bill your boy is gorgeous, how tall is he?
> 
> ...


He is 34".

Speaking with a Bellcrown distributor yesterday, the difference between the Aero and the Mini is not only the seat size, but the spring rate (though the Aero can be gotten with heavier springs) and the cart weight (about 20 lbs more). They are super well made, the wheels are tough but it rides like butter I am told, and the distributor would fit the cart to my horse with special attention to the draught line. He recommended closed shafts for maneuverability.

He has almost nothing in stock, they typically place the order to the customer's specifications so I doubt you will come home with a cart.

From what I see of the Frey, it uses coilover springing while the Bellcrowns use torsion bar. If done well either is fine, at least from my 4x4 experience. Torsion bar tends to be rising rate which is a benefit (more resistance the further it compresses). Dunno if that is true of the Bellcrown.

It seems like the Aerocrown would do it all, but a few things give me pause:

1) $2200 or so delivered. Depending on options. Ugh.

2) 90 lbs or so. With a B size mini, that might not be too bad. But with an A size, and living in the mountains with hardly a level place at ALL, and wanting to do forest road driving that would likewise not be level, I really am not sure it would be a good choice. He will certainly be in shape after a while... but I want him to enjoy it.

I'm stuck. Or as someone put it... in a gumption trap.

If I want to show I don't think I can really use the Hyperbike except in limited events. But for most of the recreational driving I plan on it would be ideal. If I have to buy a show cart as well, the budget starts to scream.


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## Barefootin (Nov 26, 2013)

We are also shopping for a Marathon cart, more like 3 or 4 carts.



Talk about a budget buster. Our problem lies in that there are 6 of us wanting to do the CDEs. The horses range from 28" minis to large ponies. With drivers 5'10" and 250#(with a mini naturally) down to my daughter that weighs less than 60#(of course she has the large pony). Used Marathon carts in the sizes we need seem to be non-existent. Good luck on your quest.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 26, 2013)

I have had the same type of dilemma you face, do I get a cart suitable for the recreational driving I do or for the showing I do. I settled it by considering the type of showing and how much of it compared to recreational driving I expected to do. I ended up with a basic easy entry (well several actually but thats a different subject lol) to use with horses from 28.5 to 34" My horses face plenty of hills and other than my driveway that is particularly steep and long even the little horse handles the weight of cart and driver well. I have done cross country (at a walk but over rough ground) driving, road driving and arena driving with an easy entry with no issues. I have entered breed shows at the local level and done driven dressage and cones courses all with one of these carts. My plan is to use the EE until I can afford to purchase a smart cart for showing and eventually a hyperbike as well. My theory is I can't have exactly what I want right away but I can 'make do' until I have saved enough for what I really want. Spreading out the expense without having to put my plans on hold. I have done the same thing with harnesses. I started with one very well made harness that I readjusted for each horse and gradually added a quality harness for another and then another. At this point I have 2 horses who do not have their own harnesses yet and one of those is in the planning stages now and should be ordered before next spring (barring some financial issue that delays it lol)


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 26, 2013)

My aerocrown is pulled by my chubby short stumpy legged 32 inch boy. His conformation is less than ideal but I love him to pieces. He can pull the aerocrown with no effort up and down hills and all type of terrain and he doesn't struggle one bit.

When I pull it around empty it seems heavy, but with a driver and hitched properly it has excellent balance and it floats nicely for my boy and he pulls it with no effort even when he is not in shape.

The shafts are removable and it fits in a honda pilot with no effort. the shafts are a pain to adjust the first time and it took both me and my trainer shifting and moving and tightening the nuts and then untightening and starting over before we were happy with them. We marked the adjustment with some black tape for easy alignment so we didn't have to do the adjustment majorly again.

I do not have the closed shafts. They required a different hitch up and I didn't want to spend any more to adjust my harness so I went with traditional shafts. The shafts have tug stops built in. There are footmans loops built into the shafts as well and you do not have to add anything.

The seat to the floor height and leg length of the stock aerocrown was shorter than the bellcrown. In the bellcrown my feet dangled and I would have had to have the seat custom lowered. I drove to the shop to buy a bellcrown and came home with the aerocrown.

For lack of a polite description as an added note... big bottomed folks don't have as much room in the aerocrown seat. In the bellcrown I felt like I could slide on turns and I preferred the tighter single seat of the aerocrown to the bellcrown bench seat where some folks have added wedges on the bench seat so they didn't slide in the seat on tight turns.. I didn't think my boy would ever be able to pull two folks anyway so I went with a single seat. There are two seat options on the aerocrown, the high back one with the arm rests is very comfortable. 
On the aerocrown you can also remove the floor and add stirrups for less weight for cross country. The aerocrown pivots awesome and is a terrific cart for cones, my boy loves cones. You can also get a dash cover to fancy it up for dressage. They come with different color wheels. I chose burgandy.

The price tag is daunting and I have actually felt guilty owning my cart, however it really is very nice. If I don't start driving more I plan to sell it, they maintain their value very well.

Hope this all helps. Took me forever to pick a cart I liked and I made a couple of boo boos along the way.

Here is me and my boy and the aerocrown in photos and a close up showing the cart from the back and the seat design.

I got my cart from Steven Stoltzfus from Carriage machine shop in pa. Amish distributer. Same price as driving essentials by the way.


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## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 26, 2013)

I love my Aerocrown!!!


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 26, 2013)

Hi Angie


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## drivin*me*buggy (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi Adair!

Adair gave me lots of info o her Aerocrown when I was cart shopping...well, at the time I had 3 carts-an Frontier easy entry, a wooden Pequea cart, and a Hyperbike.....all fine carts and fit different niches...but my 'heart' cart is the Aerocrown-hands down. I drive 2 different horses-soon to be 3- and they work well in the aerocrown..

Angie


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## Foxhaven (Nov 27, 2013)

shorthorsemom said:


> My aerocrown is pulled by my chubby short stumpy legged 32 inch boy. ... He can pull the aerocrown with no effort up and down hills and all type of terrain and he doesn't struggle one bit.


Wow, great information and it addresses my biggest concerns. Thank you!

RockyMountainCarriageSales.com directed me to a local Aerocrown customer who called me back last night. I think he may be my intro into some local driving clubs and activities to boot. He confirmed pretty much the same thing you said... he gave me a +1 on my (novice know-nothing) training so far, and what I plan to do to introduce Legend to a cart.

Legend is really making this easy on me... credit where credit due.

The customer also has an Aerocrown with a bench seat (somehow) so I know I am not locked in to single seat only... should my son and his wife get on the stick and make me some grandbabies...












LOL

This is gonna be fun, I can tell...


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 27, 2013)

On novice horses and the aerocrown.. although my boy is not a novice ,, he throws in a buck sometimes. He got a leg over the low shaft of the aerocrown once and had himself a bit of a spaz and I was sorry I had skipped my bucking strap, My old bucking strap I used on the meadowbrook I had was way too short. The bucking strap fits kind of weird on the low shafts of this cart too. Just thought I should mention the low shafts, ideal for getting in and out quickly, but not so much fun during a bucking event. The good thing about the low shafts and the ability to exit quickly is an advantage as when my boy got in trouble I could get to his head very quickly and bring him back to sanity before any damage was done. love the one second entry and exit of this cart.

This is just some added information. I highly encourage novice folks to work with a trainer. had my trainer not been there when my boy had his leg over the shaft incident it could have resulted in more than just a spaz.

I have had many lessons and still consider myself a novice and my boy lets me know it on occasion by testing me to be sure I am paying attention. For now my driving is shelved due to no time to drive, plus an ignorant shooting neighbor that enjoys setting off ground shaking bombs just for fun, however when I was driving a few times a week, the aerocrown was awesome and very comfortable and fun.

Best wishes. So nice to have a horse that you love so much to play with and train.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 27, 2013)

Yep, I noticed the low shafts too. Almost an EE. Thanks for the caution. Thankfully I have not known Legend to buck. We will see if that changes. His SON on the other hand... is a little coltish pickle of a cutie. I would expect ANYTHING from him.

From what I am reading, the shafts are part of what makes the cart so easy to turn for the horse.


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## paintponylvr (Nov 27, 2013)

I truly don't think you would ever find any one vehicle to do everything. There is just too much to consider and each type of event has developed vehicles to fit within their event structures.

I'm different. Partially due to my size and partially because I like them, I have mostly larger Shetlands. I have learned and now really enjoy driving pairs - due to my size, I can do more with a pair than with a single. That said -

I happen to like an old, no-name training sulky jog cart. It was originally meant for training much larger Hackney ponies, yet even with my weight, I've found that I can balance it easily and though I get a sore back at other times, I can enjoy trail driving in it for hours at a time. I've used it with ponies that are mini sized - 34" measured as minis - on up to 12. 2 hh hackney ponies. Even tho the mini sized Shets are way out in front of the now installed singletree, it seems to work well. Earlier this year I had it refurbished to replace the shafts, add a wooden single tree and the tires were updated from bicycle type to heavy duty frames and no-flat rubber inserts. It's much less shock absorbent, but no more flat tires out on the trails. I wish I'd thought to have the shafts shortened when I replaced them to better fit my smaller equine. But I didn't and eventually I probably will (after I sell all the larger 1/2 Shetland crosses). I use it for trail driving - up and down hills (some steep enough to even give dare-devils and hunt riders pause), thru water and both long-trotting and galloping.

Here is a pic taken of a 1 1/2 yr old filly in 1997. This was one of only a handful of times she was driven before being leased out 2 years later as a riding pony after Sierra showed her for a year. No, I don't advocate heavily driving a horse at this age...









Here is a pic of that same cart with the mare I bought it with -









The same cart with that first little mare years later. Yes, that is an UDDER - she's a heavy milker! Her colt is running around somewhere.






and the cart since it was updated with new shafts, footman's loops, wooden single tree and HD wheels & solid tires - pulled by a 1/2 shetland granddaughter of the original Hackney mare this cart was purchased with in May 1997.






I have more pics of some other carts - have to do another post. Will be a while, have some errands to run and horses to feed.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 27, 2013)

WIth a pair of decent shafts, a good singletree, and some good cart wheels... I could MAKE a jog cart. That might make up a pair of vehicles that would get just about all of it done.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 27, 2013)

Well, I pulled the trigger. Ordered an Aerocrown with colors matching my dad's racing silks.

Jack Bloss with RockyMountainCarriageSales.com is a fine man in the old school sense. He used to drive Morgans, has many championships, and teaches and trains driving now.

The price includes home delivery and fitting the cart properly to the horse. I figger I will pick up a great deal directly, and 'between the lines' as it were.

As they said back home.... HOT darn.





[edit: no that is NOT what they said at home but that is what the forum board edited it automagically to read... you fill in the gaps]


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## paintponylvr (Nov 27, 2013)

Foxhaven said:


> WIth a pair of decent shafts, a good singletree, and some good cart wheels... I could MAKE a jog cart. That might make up a pair of vehicles that would get just about all of it done.


Don't forget the spring! Mine is well sprung - it's held up for years w/ me bouncing on it (LOL)



I don't know if I have a pic of the spring.

AH, here's one... You can kind of see it.











None of these photos really shows the spring very well. It doesn't have an actual axle and I've been surprised it's held up so well.

I've had one bad ride/wreck in it when I was first starting - pretty amazing that I returned to driving as it was SCARY - but not the pony's fault when we hit a ground wasp nest that swarmed up and attacked her. We spent some wild time w/ big, ol' me and that cart airborne as she raced around our 5 acre pasture. Thankfully, I'd spent a LOT of time ground driving her and our youngest daughter had started riding her right as she turned 2, and this was late in her 2 yr old year. I was able to get her running in BIG loopy circles around our round pen as she raced, bucked and squalled. Then one time we all went up in the air and we didn't land flat/right, but on our sides w/ her legs straddling both shafts - twisted. I've never managed to get up from such so fast and start getting buckled harness loose! Neither of us was really injured other than some scratches and the wasp stings. However, both of us were scared spit less and I was never able to get her over it and drive her again. Just bringing the harness out would make her start shaking - starting the next day - even though I rehooked her that afternoon. The gentleman that I'd been working with the year previous was having heart problems and in/out of the hospital - so that pony went to strictly a riding pony and I went to driving my stallion only for a while...

Since 2010, it's also been flipped over a couple of times - though not with me in/on it. That probably added to the stress of the dry rotting that was happening in the shafts. Then when Bit took exception to a stallion while out on a trail drive. She had a complete meltdown at one point - started "screaming" and striking out with her front hooves any time the stallion "said anything" - even though he was either at the front of our group or the back -while I was at the opposite end. That was interesting to deal with and everyone else thought it was hilarious (there were 6 of us that day driving in various carts). I thought she'd completely lost her mind! When she started bucking - 3 leaps forward/bucking and she connected with the circle bar - almost snapping it in 1/2. WE were quite a ways away from our trailers this time - I PRAYED - and she settled (she was very sore!) and behaved better the rest of the way back. I didn't do any more cantering/galloping - afraid the "stress" would destroy the cart. I kept it thru the summer/fall/winter before I was able to find someone who could repair it for me...

***

While this cart injured we went trail driving again with the same friend - I borrowed her Jerald show cart. OMG - It was HEAVY. Found it also to be a LOT wider than mine thru the shafts, the shafts themselves were much larger in circumference. It did have a basket that was NICE (she takes it off to show in Roadster classes) and the seat had basically the exact same set up as mine did... She did say it was a bit large for her boy (who was about the same height as my girl, but wider so able to accommodate it better). I wonder if it is actually meant for a much larger pony, I simply don't know. It's a show cart meant for no breeching and it has no single tree either. So, I had breeching with hold back straps and I did put them on it - but they weren't effective. You can see in some of the pics that it is being stopped by the saddle, not the breeching. The width also was heavy on the shaft carriers. It flat wore out my little mare (40" tall) - even though she was in pretty good shape. It did ride nice for me but was hard on her. Think she was glad to use our little ol' jog cart again!











Going down and around at the Moss Foundation - Southern Pines, NC. We drove for about 2 hours. We usually try to have our ponies in shape when we start hauling out as I don't like hauling an hour or more away only to drive for 30 minutes...






I think the longest amount of driving I've done was 5 hours in one go (no going back to the trailer to unhitch/unharness for a rest). We weren't prepared enough for that one, I will plan better for next year... That one was actually just as hard on me as it was on my ponies - we drove our vehicle pulling the trailer about 2 1/2 hours to get to the trail drive and then drove back home the same day! Next time, we go down the night before and camp on cots in the horse trailer... The ponies were in better shape than I was - they bounced back easier.


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## paintponylvr (Nov 27, 2013)

I've not seen a Bell or Aero crown in person (well, I may have) yet, so you will need to post photos.

The only other carts that I've owned are a Jerald show cart (purchased used and smaller than the one in previous photos) and two different ez entry carts. One was a Frontier, I believe, and the other is a mini sized, less expensive one. Oh, and the Pioneer Forecart (for driving my pairs up to 13 or singles up to 14.2) - meant for farm work and I've used it as a training vehicle with the pairs and as a cross country vehicle (nice ride for a farm cart with awesome springs, large tires and brakes).

When I had my sulky refurbished, I took the mini sized ez entry up, too. I had wooden shafts, a single tree, heavier axles and the same type of tires/wheels as the sulky. I WISH I'd had it redone in the spring area - would have been nice!

Here it is before being refurbished - I think Stuffy is 36 1/2 at the withers but could be wrong. Need to measure her again...











And after it was fixed up:


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## diamond c (Nov 28, 2013)

one of my winter projects is to buildan easy entry cart. (thats all my budget will alow ) Thanks to Paintponylvr's pics and others I've seen on here and others I have a good idea of how I want, and need it to be. Thanks to all.


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## paintponylvr (Nov 28, 2013)

Someone else has also done that and older posts have pics at different stages.

Pretty cool.

On the Recreational Equine Driving group - there are several folks currently experimenting with building different carts/wagons for their horses w/ some different configurations for moving the seat and springing the seat/axles/tires. All fascinating.


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## Foxhaven (Nov 28, 2013)

paintponylvr said:


> Don't forget the spring! Mine is well sprung - it's held up for years w/ me bouncing on it (LOL)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd bet a replacement light trailer spring and shackle would accomplish that. One thing I'd like to do should I ever build a jog cart would be to suspend the wheels and not just my bum... my thinking is that with no wheel suspension the shock goes right up the shafts to the horse. That's one of things that made sense to me about the Aerocrown. The poly spring blocks would not require any damping.


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