# Help figuring out harness & cart specs??



## secuono (Aug 5, 2017)

My 2 minis are 36in. Might grow a hair.

Are there tips on how to pick out it all??


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## MajorClementine (Aug 5, 2017)

Figure out which harness you want to invest in. Remember it's an investment more than expense so go with the highest quality harness you can afford. Ozark has very nice harness for beginners. I used mine for several years before upgrading to a Comfy Fit. Once you find the harness you want you should be able to find how to measure for that harness on the harness maker/seller website. If not you should call and ask them what measurements you need to take. You can also let them know the ages of your minis and that there is still a little possible growth so they can make the harness to be adjusted a little larger should you need it. Most harness shops are happy to chat with you to get your harness just right.

I just got my comfy fit and I had sent in all the required measurements and when it arrived not only was it the correct size but it was already adjusted to fit my mini! I only had to make minor adjustments. I also called to talk to them and got quick release tug loops since my tugs have loop ends instead of straight ends, I also got quick release traces for safety sake.

My first harness from Ozark was also a good harness. It's what I trained Clementine in and it lasted us for years. It's leather and still in great shape. Clem just had a little growth spurt between 4-5 year old and filled out. So it's a bit small on her now but works in a pinch if I need it to.

Good luck on your search. I'm sure many more will chime in with the harnesses they love.


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## secuono (Aug 5, 2017)

Are there basic single driving harness sets without all the headgear included?


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## Cayuse (Aug 5, 2017)

I bought a mini harness from Big Dees Harness a couple of years ago and would recommend it if you just want a training harness. It is not fancy, but the leather was decent but it comes with a bridle. It is super adjustable, it fits my 32 inch mini and 34 inch mini and I would say it would accommodate a 36 inch mini easily. I bought it as a starter harness but stuck with it as I can't find anything I like better that fits my two. The bridle isn't the greatest, but the harness is only $135 and it sounds like you don't need a bridle?

Their return policy is good too if you find it isn't what you need.


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 5, 2017)

My harness is Big Dee. I have used it for 15 years. At that tine, the bridle was super. It is still the best bridle I have owned. You can just buy a headstall if you don't want blinders or checks.


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## secuono (Aug 5, 2017)

Yeah, mine will go in just their halter. No blinders, bits or checks.

Side question, is the breeching part needed?

I see some don't come with them, so then I wonder what it's purpose is?

Thanks!

Yes, we are just piddling around. No shows or heavy use.


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## secuono (Aug 6, 2017)

Ordered a harness! Hope it fits!


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 6, 2017)

secuono said:


> Ordered a harness! Hope it fits!


Good luck with that tangle of straps and buckles when it arrives!You cannot safely drive in just a halter. The bit is your communication with your horse.

breeching is important for most driving. The showring likes to minimize harness for looks, but for real driving breeching is pretty important.


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## secuono (Aug 6, 2017)

A bit is not the only means of communication nor does it ensure any amount of safety. If it were, no one would ride tack free or bit free ever.

I have seem some wonderful halter only driving.

Is breeching for backing up??

I'm simply not finding a reason why it was invented. I assume it's for backing up.

They had it in stock when I ordered, then got an email that it is not and no clue when it will be available again. =/


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## secuono (Aug 6, 2017)

Ordered a different one. Reviews were good on it.


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## Cayuse (Aug 6, 2017)

The breeching is to hold the cart back when you are stopping or doing hills. It is sort of like passive brakes, so the cart does not run forward possibly hitting the rump. The breeching attaches to the shafts of the cart, one one each side, with straps called "holdback straps". There are usually little loops on the shafts that the holdbacks run through. I believe they are called "footman's loops".

Breeching is not usually used in the showring but If you are doing anything other than driving on completely flat terrain it is a good idea to have it.


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## secuono (Aug 6, 2017)

Cayuse said:


> The breeching is to hold the cart back when you are stopping or doing hills. It is sort of like passive brakes, so the cart does not run forward possibly hitting the rump. The breeching attaches to the shafts of the cart, one one each side, with straps called "holdback straps". There are usually little loops on the shafts that the holdbacks run through. I believe they are called "footman's loops".
> 
> Breeching is not usually used in the showring but If you are doing anything other than driving on completely flat terrain it is a good idea to have it.


Ahh, okay. Thanks!

Glad I got one with breaching then! Nothing but hills here.


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## secuono (Aug 6, 2017)

Ugh, auto correct. Breeching***

Sorry, thought I went back and fixed it, but I guess it auto corrected it yet again...


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## Minimor (Aug 7, 2017)

.


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## jventresca (Aug 7, 2017)

Secuono, you may want to find someone near you that is an experienced driver to help you before trying it all on your own. Every piece of the harness is there for a reason. It's not safe for you or your horse to leave a piece off. The photo you posted of the harness you ordered does not have a breeching. It looks like a show ring harness.

You may be right that your horse will drive in a halter but a halter was never intended for clear communications with the horse like a bridle. Most are loose around the nose and can slide off with a little rubbing from an itchy horse. It's a terrible thing to see a horse hitched to a cart with nothing on its head careening around the countryside!

I would strongly urge you to learn as much as you can before hitching up your horse. Knowledge leads to safety!


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## secuono (Aug 7, 2017)

Breeching is in the second pic on the website and listed as to what is included.


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## MajorClementine (Aug 7, 2017)

I have a few concerns here. Please don't take offence as all of us here try to help and offer advice where we can.

I am concerned that you are trying to train a horse to drive bitless yet don't seem to have an understanding of basic driving equipment. This may sound harsh but a driving wreck, even with a mini, can be a disaster for yourself, your horse, and bystanders.

The breeching is your braking system. It keeps the cart from crashing into your horse when going down hill or stopping. Unless your vehicle is equipped with brakes you need a breeching. Even then, it's good to have. If that cart runs into the back of your horse your looking at a train wreck.

Please be sure you understand all the equipment and how it fits and functions. I've seen some great bit less driving horses but only ever from very experienced drivers.

If you post questions and pics of your harness on the horse when you get it there are several people here who can advise you on the fit.

Welcome and good luck!


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## secuono (Aug 8, 2017)

It'll be a long time before I get a cart, and not just because they are so expensive. So I have time to learn what everything is, what size and type of cart, shaft type and length, wheels and all.

Life has been nuts here with electrical and plumbing issues, so haven't had much time to properly start research much of anything yet.

Ground Driving the pinto was to see if it was even possible and something we could work towards. After discovering she was willing and understanding me, I got excited with the possibility of a new adventure with them and jumped all in. That doesn't mean I'll do it blindly or not research it first.

I learn best from trial n error, learning as I go. But I'll get help when we get stuck or I end up in over my head, like I did with the gelding. I don't have much interest in killing or injuring myself or the horses. So if things start going wayward, I'll back off and seek assistance.


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## Cayuse (Aug 8, 2017)

The harness that you ordered is the same one I have. I have two of them actually, one for each mini. They are serving me well for the driving I do, which right now is just for fun. I hope the harness works out for you.

I think everyone here just wants you to be safe. The above posters (not me) have lots of knowledge and are very generous with it. Don't hesitate to ask questions if you need to. They have helped me figure out quite a few things along the way. And I have had quite a few thing to figure out, lol.


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## MajorClementine (Aug 8, 2017)

When you do start ground driving you can also drive our "Driving Hours" thread. We record ground driving and driving hours


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## Cayuse (Aug 8, 2017)

MajorClementine said:


> When you do start ground driving you can also drive our "Driving Hours" thread. We record ground driving and driving hours


And we have prizes ? too.


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## secuono (Aug 8, 2017)

Cayuse said:


> And we have prizes too.


Haha, I think my horses understanding and working with me is reward enough.


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## secuono (Aug 9, 2017)

For those of you that said you have this harness, could you post a picture of it on your horse?

There are no images of it in use that I can find.


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## secuono (Aug 9, 2017)

The bridle part is just a huge mess, stiff and funky, blinders seem not quite even and it's a little too short for the bit to fit. So it will just be kept in storage unless I can figure out how to get it to work.

The "dye" used comes off, I can only imagine the mess my pinto will be if she sweats or it rains...Anything I can use to fix that?

I have a leather cleaner n conditioner that works well on old n stiff leather, but I don't know if it'll turn into a huge black mess....lol


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## BSharpRanch (Aug 9, 2017)

Breeching is a very important aspect of a harness. Would you seriously drive a car without brakes? That is what breeching is, brakes. And for backing. I do not drive any of my vehicles without breeching on the horse, with the exception of in the show ring, where it isn't needed. If you drive anywhere hilly or your mini has a heavy load, it is almost cruel to ask them to hold it back on a hill, stop it or back it with just the back band IMHO.


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## secuono (Aug 9, 2017)

BSharpRanch said:


> Breeching is a very important aspect of a harness. Would you seriously drive a car without brakes? That is what breeching is, brakes. And for backing. I do not drive any of my vehicles without breeching on the horse, with the exception of in the show ring, where it isn't needed. If you drive anywhere hilly or your mini has a heavy load, it is almost cruel to ask them to hold it back on a hill, stop it or back it with just the back band IMHO.


Thanks, but I'm not against it. I just wasn't sure what it was for, as they aren't always included in all the pictures and videos out there or can be an add-on/remove item on some websites.

Anywho, mine came with it and I plan on using it as nothing here is flat. =)


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## BSharpRanch (Aug 9, 2017)

Awesome! I sure didn't mean what was typed the way it reads! I'm glad you took it the way it was meant not the way it reads. ?


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## secuono (Aug 9, 2017)

Anyone know if the neck strap is supposed to be on the neck for this particular harness or clip to the saddle? There are no in-use pics that I could find, but I'm guessing it is just for the neck.

I need to add some holes so some things can fit better, then I'll get new pictures. But you can see that she is totally chill about it. ? Even listening to lunging directions.


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## secuono (Aug 9, 2017)

Should fit better now


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 13, 2017)

Oh my goodness! Look at that expressive nose! What a fun character to work with!


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## MajorClementine (Aug 13, 2017)

How are harness adjustments going? Sometimes, I've found, harness are like clothes. One size fits all sometimes means one size fits nobody. I hope this isn't the case for you


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## secuono (Aug 13, 2017)

MajorClementine said:


> How are harness adjustments going? Sometimes, I've found, harness are like clothes. One size fits all sometimes means one size fits nobody. I hope this isn't the case for you


No idea. Look at the pics and you tell me, lol. I still haven't found pics of any other minis in this harness, so can only guess based on what many other different brands look like.
Been trying to find a good leather hole punch, but most under 50 have horrible reviews and I can't spend more than 50 on a tool I'll use once and then it sits for years on end, hah. The rotary ones everyone hates.

Nylon is so easy to make holes in, regular screw, then heat up a nail and melt it open. Done. But leather, not so simple. =/


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## MajorClementine (Aug 13, 2017)

I have a rotary leather punch. $12 and it works just fine for me. To make a couple holes now and again that's all you need. 

As for the harness, this is just my opinion and there are a lot of people on here that know much more than I.

The saddle doesn't come down very far Looks like your breeching is a bit high. The neck strap needs a connector (you can improvise anything) or you can lengthen it all the way and slip it over the water hook on the saddle if it's long enough. I did that for years on my harness. Just make sure that it doesn't make the breast collar cut into the throat. It looks a little high to me in the third pic. It's tricky with minis to not cut off their wind while also not restricting shoulder movement. Once you start putting a load on your mini (start with a small tire or log maybe?) they will be able to tell you if something is just not working for them.

The bridle needs adjusted all over it looks like.... Maybe post some better pics of that?


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## PintoPalLover (Aug 13, 2017)

I agree with MajorClementine that a rotary leather punch should work fine, that's primarily what I use for all my leather work, including making 2 bridles.

Harnesses can be a pain to try to figure out at first , they're easy to get frustrated with, especially the bridles, the bridle I got with the Ozark Mt russet pleasure harness is pretty nice , fits the horses okay without a ton of tweaking, but I still don't like messing with it. I agree with more pictures.

As far as breast collar fit. I think it changes a little depending on what they're pulling, if anything. If my horse is pulling something from the ground, sometimes I need to take it up a hole, as it gets pulled down, but, as MajorClementine said, you don't want it too high. Hang in there !


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## secuono (Aug 13, 2017)

I'll hang a haynet up high, so she's busy eating amd not helping with all the leather that doesn't have chew marks on them yet, lol, and try to readjust the harness tomorrow.


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## Minimor (Aug 13, 2017)

yes the military punch will work fine for what you need. It is all I have ever used for the past 40 or so years. Much rather use that on leather than fight with nylon!

If it is hard punching start with a small hole then make it bigger--works very well that way.


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## Cayuse (Aug 14, 2017)

If you want to see what the harness looks like on my minis, I have a bunch of pictures of him posted on the "your drive day" thread. You will have to hunt around for them though. Both the black and bay minis are wearing the same harness that you have in all the pictures except for the sledding ones. The bay mini is wearing the same bridle but the black has a different one. The black mini has a very refined head and the bridle was just too much leather and too big. The bay is 30 inches and the black is 34 for reference.

I am too pooped out this week from the show to take any close ups of them, but after next weekend when I start driving again maybe I can.


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## Minimor (Aug 14, 2017)

Military punch? Really phone you changed rotary to military? Smf.

Rotary punch!! LOL


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## Cayuse (Aug 14, 2017)

Minimor you had me fooled, I just thought it was another name for a leather punch, lol.


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 14, 2017)

One needs a leather punch all the time. Harnesses are always in need of tweaking. My punch is very old and the common size is broken off, so I use the two sizes beside it. Why don't I buy a new one???


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## secuono (Aug 14, 2017)

What brand rotary punch do you use?

Raining sporadically today, but heading out now to hopefully get pics between storms.


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## secuono (Aug 14, 2017)

Sorry it took a couple hours, got distracted with some other horsie things, lol.

I added a hole on each side, but still seems loose, is this too loose or fine? Her tail is happily up when meandering.





Then this is point of shoulder, so upped it a hole on each side. 2nd picture is after the adjustment, which seems to have just enough space for air and shoulder.





I also adjusted the breeching after looking at a ton of pics. Seems to be close to where others put it.

It is lower than previously. What do you guys say?

I realize the water hook is backwards, it turns when in the storage tote, sorry. Also tied up straps n bits so it stayed level so I could move back and check it over.

This is one site I used to adjust breeching height.




I also put the harness on my younger mini for kicks. She kept her tail clamped and left, lol. Didn't adjust it for her, as she's still growing bunches.


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## jventresca (Aug 15, 2017)

I'd prefer to see the back strap shorter so the hip strap is forward, closer to the point of the hip.


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## secuono (Aug 15, 2017)

jventresca said:


> I'd prefer to see the back strap shorter so the hip strap is forward, closer to the point of the hip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe I've put the back strap on the shortest hole. I'll double check and add a couple if need be.

The breeching triangles can't move, so I worry about the hip straps being pulled backwards further than they already are. Kind of makes it impossible for them to be at the hip point.


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## Minimor (Aug 15, 2017)

yes, how far forward you can position the hip strap does depend on the length of the breeching itself. If you shortened the back strap any more the hip strap would then angle forward, which isn't a good thing either. For a stock harness yours fits fairly well in the breeching. Mine--I had to sell the breeching and get custom breeching made--the harness overall fit 36 to 38" horses but the breeching it came with fit perfectly on a 32" slight built horse.


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## secuono (Aug 15, 2017)

Here's a pic before I moved up the breastcollar. Can better see the floppy crupper


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## MajorClementine (Aug 26, 2017)

I don't know how others feel about pads but that breast collar is pretty narrow and IMO a pad under it will make it much more comfortable when pulling a load. I had to order a custom back strap for my harness after the harness arrived. I needed a shorter one but also needed for it to NOT pull the hip strap forward. Same problem it looks like you are having. The other thing you could do is, where the back strap is split for the crupper to attach, you could split it higher and add more holes and cut off the long ends. That way you can lengthen the back strap to where you need it for the hip strap to be in it's proper place and your crupper will fit a little better. Unless you buy a custom made harness you just have to get a little creative with ways to adjust your harness. You should see some of the "rigged" things I've done in the past.


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## secuono (Aug 26, 2017)

MajorClementine said:


> I don't know how others feel about pads but that breast collar is pretty narrow and IMO a pad under it will make it much more comfortable when pulling a load. I had to order a custom back strap for my harness after the harness arrived. I needed a shorter one but also needed for it to NOT pull the hip strap forward. Same problem it looks like you are having. The other thing you could do is, where the back strap is split for the crupper to attach, you could split it higher and add more holes and cut off the long ends. That way you can lengthen the back strap to where you need it for the hip strap to be in it's proper place and your crupper will fit a little better. Unless you buy a custom made harness you just have to get a little creative with ways to adjust your harness. You should see some of the "rigged" things I've done in the past.


Funny, I had the same thought!

Rotary leather punch came in.

I can try splitting the back Strap next time I fiddle with it. I'm back at riding the gelding as the weather has been awesome & he needs work.


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## MajorClementine (Aug 27, 2017)

I know how hard it can be to split your time between driving the minis and riding the big guys. I've got both as well and now a team of Fjords to top it off. So many horses, so few daylight hours....


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 28, 2017)

I don't know why the loop for the breeching strap is always so far back. I've had to order other back straps, just to get my breeching more forward. And why not make the breeching straps a little longer? They can always be cut off for a small or refined horse. But a larger or stockier horse needs some extra length. It can't cost that much more to add a few inches to those straps. Harnesses usually need a lot of tweaking as you go.


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## Cayuse (Aug 28, 2017)

Secuno, I thought of you yesterday, I also have a new leather punch and could not to the life of me get it to punch through the leather. Hubby came out and looked at it and said "take the cap off..." DOH! So I did and presto, mission accomplished.

Hopefully you will do better than me. ?

I enjoyed the picture of you "leading the parade" on the other thread.


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## secuono (Aug 28, 2017)

Mine didn't have a cap, but I did cut a hole through the plastic disk...I can't tell when it's gone through the leather...

Lol


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## jventresca (Aug 29, 2017)

I keep a length of leather with my hole punch. I put the leather piece under whatever I'm putting the hole in. Then the punch can go all the way through the strap, making a clean cut. The leather piece protects the cutting edge from the "anvil" of the punch. A tack repair friend showed me this trick.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 3, 2017)

I have found that a lot of the current day leather hole punches don't work well (or that I just plain lack the hand strength, these days, to use it properly?)... I found that I can use a drill bit and drill press SO much easier and can get smaller holes, too! Even just using a battery operated drill, on a bucket, out by the horse while doing adjustments work.

Sounds like others are helping you well.

I wouldn't use a pad under the breast collar - the extra width could easily cut off her air when she's pulling properly since she ties down so low into her chest. BUT others are right - that is a VERY narrow breast collar... in the future, for both of your girls, I think you will want to look at a shaped breast collar (yep, can be much more pricey - especially out of leather) or even one of the "Freedom" styled breast collars (a much deeper "v" in the middle of the chest) - either of which will allow a much better/nicer room for her neck tie in. Either of those types of breast collars usually has removable traces too, so those would also be replaced... For now, you can make your breast collar work for you. More on the breast collar in next post...

Bridle, hmmm... Well, I would start with your cleaning conditioning product. First, it will remove much of the excess die that will indeed "stain" and "drip" down your pinto. Second, it will make that stiff leather much more easy for your hands to work with and for your little girls to wear. Then, hopefully, it will lay more "quietly" (flatter, closer to her head) so that you can get proper adjustments. Can you completely remove that strap in the middle? For the life of me, I can't remember what that piece is called - It used to tie into the overcheck and in some cases still would (showring). I've always removed it. Or is it permanently attached to the crown of the bridle (and/or the blinkers?) so that the only way to remove it would be to cut it?

I used your photo - the red circles the buckle where the blinker attachment is - not sure if the blue circled part joins the blinker attachment strap or is separate? The conway buckles on the bit make it easily removable from the bit (circled in green). I do recommend a nose band. A simple "throat latch" piece from a horse bridle or a noseband or even an unfolded leather curbstrap (not sewn, full size horse) would work. The nose band, run through the attachment to the bit or right behind it, keeps the blinker portion of the bridle next to her head. Maybe not as much of a concern with yours, but ... part of proper harnessing, too. I don't think i have any close up shots of a noseband on a bridle run this way.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 3, 2017)

You may have to so some clipping/trimming of her mane/forelock to allow a proper fit. This is when a small, short bridlepath would work well. It isn't just for looks (yes, it would look better), but for SAFETY. The way your bridle is now, because its sitting atop of her hair, she could shake her head and bridle would be gone. Also, it affects the adjustments. Some of us who drive go one step further with some of our known "head shakers" and braid that forelock down and then take it over the top of the crown and braid it down tight to the top of the mane. PITA but it keeps that headshaker from removing the bridle (or halter?, smile!!)...

YES, I understand you train yours differently, but...

another drawing on your bridle - Let's see if I can make sense. The red circle denotes where the noseband would go thru the bridle, behind the bit. That buckle is also where you make adjustments for the bit. Ideally, you would have a keeper there, too, to close up that large, open loop. You can easily do that when you have the adjustments done - using a black shoestring or paracord or electrical tape if you want it to match or anything of your choosing if you're not worried about it matching. A sturdy rubber band works too. Making the lower buckle tighter would make that loop smaller BUT it looks like that would throw off the adjustments of the upper buckle.




You want the blinders to be centered over her eye and that is what the blue circle denotes (adjustment for the blinker). It looks like you can go higher on that (on the right eye?) but that would change the adjustment on the bit end, too...

One think you will find out - for just about every tweak made, there will be a 2nd corresponding tweak to be made. Meaning that if you shorten one strap on one side or part, the other side or part will need to be lengthened.

2nd edit - ADD - I went back to the pic of the full harness you have. GREAT pic, but still couldn't see exactly what I was looking for. The over the head strap is hooked to an overcheck with a "water tie", the flat leather piece, that hooks to the "water hook". The straps look to be stitched to a buckle that is then wider than the opening in the headstall to remove it (my guess - same as I've had in the past). Meaning you probably won't be able to remove it w/o cutting it somewhere...



Sorry.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 3, 2017)

I don't think you want or should run your neck strap directly over the water hook. WHY? Because in your open style training and in ADS, farm or trail driving, a horse drops his head down. When the head goes down on your horse, especially when she drops it down to the ground (YES, I know desired), it puts an undo strain on that wee little, single layer, leather strap. It will eventually break, usually at the most in-opportune time, and allow the breast collar to drop to the ground - either tripping your horse into a roll or allowing her to step right over/out of it (ASK me how I know this, LOL it wasn't at the time). The roll will catapult the cart/driver and stepping over the breast collar means that your horse is no longer attached via pulling, to the cart.... BOTH potentially BAD situations. Several things can happen then... I can describe each if wanted. NO, I've not had them all happen directly to me or mine, but have seen some and understanding mechanics know how the others would happen. SHUDDER, SHUDDER.

If you want to attach the neck strap to the saddle, I would use a separate strap. Again you can make one, or use a curbstrab (this time w/o letting it out, but utilizing the keepers just like you would on a bit) or you can purchase the "neck strap holder". I believe Comfy Fit has a pic of one, I'll see if I can find it... Also, again, using your cleaning, conditioning product on the full harness will also make the breast collar/traces stop pushing the breast collar forward. Also, once she is properly hitched to a cart, that would stop...

WOW - Comfy Fit now has a new website (wasn't there a couple weeks ago) AND they now make a bitless headstall for driving (a bit pricey?)... https://chimacumtack.com/product/bridle-comfy-fit-bitless/ ... AH, I'd love a Comfy Fit harness...

The horses you see with the strap run up to the water hook in the show ring are usually higher moving horses that are also checked up. They CAN'T lower their heads to put too much pressure on the neck strap. The neck strap on Jaye's cart is also on a very differently designed breast collar that will allow the horse to put his head down (possibly all the way to the ground) w/o putting too much stress on that strap. I didn't find the strap I was looking for, but this one would work -

https://chimacumtack.com/product/pole-strap/ or this one - https://chimacumtack.com/product/trace-carriers/

Edited to add - neither of these is made for that attachment - but they would work.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 3, 2017)

This link is just one that shows a nice adjustment, hope it's ok to again use Chimacum's site link. While that lower buckle adjustment doesn't have a keeper on it (the loop is smaller/neater), it does have the noseband running thru the open part of the loop.

https://chimacumtack.com/product/sweetheart-bridle/


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## Minimor (Sep 3, 2017)

I would hope her overcheck in no way attaches to tbe blinker strap/buckle on top the crown piece--i have never seen those 2 things connected on any bridle, and you absolutely cannot have the overcheck pulling the blinkers up. ?

I expect the entire overcheck is removable--most have the buckles on the neck piece, not on tbe straps that are meant to go through the loops on the crown piece--so they can be unbuckled and pulled free. Not sure I have ever seen a bridle with the buckles on the front straps so they cannot be removed from the headstall.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 3, 2017)

I finally found a "neck strap hook"??? Again on Chimacum's site... But this time you can look it up under pleasure harness. It's a drawn pic.

WOW, I found an OLD, archived post from 2011 (while looking at images on Google for harness, LOL). I guess I HAD stated writing here in Lil' Beginnings. Not just the American Shetland Pony Forum before it went down...

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php/topic/127133-please-share-recent-or-old-driving-pics/page-3 LOTS of pics of our ponies from training and original driving. NOTE - not all my harness pics are correct and some will rightfully point out that that braided haystring harness is the "pits". Believe it or not - that harness (actually 2 of them) are still in use at 8 years of age!! The one had to have new traces, both now need new surcingle/saddles... But the bridles & lines, backstrap & crupper, breaching & hip straps, breast collars and traces - still going strong for training youngsters.


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## paintponylvr (Sep 3, 2017)

Minimor said:


> I would hope her overcheck in no way attaches to tbe blinker strap/buckle on top the crown piece--i have never seen those 2 things connected on any bridle, and you absolutely cannot have the overcheck pulling the blinkers up.
> 
> I expect the entire overcheck is removable--most have the buckles on the neck piece, not on tbe straps that are meant to go through the loops on the crown piece--so they can be unbuckled and pulled free. Not sure I have ever seen a bridle with the buckles on the front straps so they cannot be removed from the headstall.


on the first comment - I did once. I had it, and cut it apart. OK, it was a cheaply made, inexpensive driving headstall. What was available 30+ years ago when I was starting...

Her's appears to be made the 2nd way you mention when you look at the pic that she displayed the whole harness. BUT it doesn't look like it would be easily removed w/o cutting it somewhere due to how it is sewn to the buckle (wider there). Of course the slot it feeds thru in the crown MAY be wide enough to remove it??


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## paintponylvr (Sep 3, 2017)

I finally found what I was looking for but in looking at it, I don't think it would work in this situation.

It's called a breast collar keeper.

Mike Herron of Herron's Tack offers it for sale - http://herronstack.com/Breast-Collar-Keeper-H127.htm- you can blow up the pic and see it. It's not adjustable and I really think it would be too short for Secuono's purposes... it's part of what is used on the Park action & Hackney horses to attach the neck strap to the water hook (usually under the check rein?).


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## paintponylvr (Sep 3, 2017)

If you take a look at this mini/pony (? - he may be either bred by the Frasiers here in NC?), I think his harness shows the hook (or something similar) like in my previous post. I think you will see what I am referring to and why I think that this type of hook/strap could be too short IN YOUR situation... That could be a lot of pressure on the neck strap with the head much lower - even here.

This was taken at a show held by the Carolina Carriage Club in 2011 - site link is to High Time Photography's photos... His bridle also has the rings for a side check - that appears to have been removed for this type of show.

http://www.hightimephotos.com/CarolinaCarriageClub/CCC-Pleasure-and-Dressage-Show/31-Allison-Jones-Blue-Blazes/i-SRJqkBd


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## Cayuse (Sep 4, 2017)

I have this exact same bridle, there was a question about the over check being removable and if the over check is some how attached to the blinkers. No to both questions. The slots on the bridle crown cannot accept the wide leather. I have used this with both a nose band through the bit end loops and a regular cavesson nose band. I did get keepers for down near the bit end to keep thing tidy. Hope that helps!


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## secuono (Sep 4, 2017)

Took some pics of the head gear and thingie I'm calling a devil's tail. =)


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## Cayuse (Sep 4, 2017)

The best part of that bridle is the blinker stays,they are a generous length and they really work and keep they blinkers away from their eyes. It is a pet peeve of mine when the blinker stays are flimsy and have to be constantly pulled away from their face. My husband made me a longer "devils tail" for Cappy as he has a LONG neck and needed about an inch added to the length. I don't know what it is technically called, but devils tail fits, doesn't it. Probably called a water hook tab, maybe. I dunno.


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## Marsha Cassada (Sep 6, 2017)

The most recent bridle I bought, I sent to a leather guy and he replaced the flimsy wire in the blinders with a heavier wire. One of the wires broke. Nor could I keep the blinders adjusted. I think the wire was that kind that is in bread twisties. Why use that on a good quality bridle, I have no idea. Maybe for weight? Or to give a more refined look? Everything else about it is very nice.


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## jeanniecogan (Sep 6, 2017)

that is my pet peeve with harness' i can't stand the flimsy wire they use. i just bought the blinker part from chimucum tack and it was expensive i thought, but it is worth it's weight in gold. no more problems with keeping the blinkers out of Charlie's eyes. really worth the money.


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## secuono (Sep 8, 2017)

Odd Q, but can you not slip in a new wire of your choosing?

Hmm, I guess maybe the path wouldn't be wide enough on some or oddly 'locked' in place.

I do agree, the wire in these is quite nice.


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## Marsha Cassada (Sep 9, 2017)

secuono said:


> Odd Q, but can you not slip in a new wire of your choosing?
> 
> Hmm, I guess maybe the path wouldn't be wide enough on some or oddly 'locked' in place.
> 
> I do agree, the wire in these is quite nice.


No, one cannot slip in a new wire. The blinder wires must be remade for the heavier wire and resewn. Glad yours is nice!


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## secuono (Sep 24, 2017)




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## secuono (Sep 24, 2017)

Yeah, it followed me home, sorry!


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## jeanniecogan (Sep 24, 2017)

I had that happen to me, once. hehe. really cute cart ,looks like a lot of fun left in that cart.


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