# Second opinions, please??



## JFNM miniatures (Jan 3, 2022)

Hello everyone, 
I don’t know if some of you remember me, I posted a thread last March- April for my little mare Flicka ( if you remember, we lost the foal) 

Anyway, I need second opinions on another mare that I have, Nougat.
She was exposed twice to my stallion this year, the first time was January 28, 2021 and second time was July 28, 2021.

i sincerely didn’t think she caught the first time, cause she came back in heat in May and June. However after her July breeding she didn’t come back in heat again for the rest of summer, so I assumed she could be pregnant from that second exposure. But I still had my doubts as she only got covered once, and it didn’t seem to be very conclusive…

I wasn’t sure about all of it, so I just kept an eye on her through this fall… until I actually noticed 2 weeks ago that she had an edema on her udder and it began to develop… it is a small thing compared to the one Flicka had, but has been growing steadily. And guess what, next thing I know, she has milk !

So I tested it just for fun, every two days. For a week the pH was 8.4 and calcium was 400 ( undiluted) and then 3 days ago, I test and it is 7.8?! And it stayed like that since!

And calcium is 1000 undiluted ( I know you need to dilute it, I just don’t, but still gives me a good idea of the progress)For the past three days these levels have stayed pretty stable, but still!

what do you think???

I think she doesn’t look very pregnant either compared to what Flicka looked like, but then, she is a maiden mare ( I know that 100%) and is long- barreled in shape, and has always been in good shape. She is perfect in terms of weight and has never been overweight. I still see something suspicious about the shape of her belly, but I need second opinions here. Especially if some of you had a maiden mare with similar body shape. 

I honestly wish and hope she is not pregnant of the first exposure, since that means her *due date would be January 5th, 2022 (based on 342 days)* and it is SO very cold right now.

(BTW, the breeding was NOT intentional, my stallion jumped the fence and bred her several times before I realized he was with her. Since, I added a layer of board to make the fence higher and he won’t jump the fence anymore. )

I’m treating her as pregnant and due soon, just in case, she is under camera and I wakeup at night to check on her. 

Please tell me what you think. The pH levels really confuse me and I know they were correct! 

Second and third pictures really show the suspicious Looking shape….


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## elizabeth.conder (Jan 3, 2022)

I think you are approaching it correctly. Maybe just hormonal changes but there is the definite possibility. She really do eat look in foal but as we know that doesn’t mean much of anything. Really pretty girl!


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## JFNM miniatures (Jan 3, 2022)

Thank you elisabeth.conder for your answer, much appreciated.

What about pH levels? Do you know if non-pregnant mares can have change in pH? It’s just so confusing, but then again, that’s the whole meaning of MARES…


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## LostandFound (Jan 3, 2022)

I don't know much about ph levels, I don't test milk. From what I have heard though the only change that is important is immediately before foaling, and you shouldn't be there yet. I don't see anything in her belly that makes me think she is due in a few weeks but that doesn't mean anything in a maiden. I say get your phone under that belly and let us look at her udder. Then take a picture in a week and post that. I've seen plenty of udder swelling in mares that weren't even bred, so I'm not going by that anymore. But I think you will see a clear and obvious change in 7 days if it's going to be a winter foal.


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## LostandFound (Jan 3, 2022)

Wait, I re read that, she would be due wed? Then a change in ph might be important. For some reason I thought it said the 25th. Definitely need an udder pic.


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## JFNM miniatures (Jan 3, 2022)

LostandFound said:


> Wait, I re read that, she would be due wed? Then a change in ph might be important. For some reason I thought it said the 25th. Definitely need an udder pic.


Yes she is due on Wednesday the 5 th, but as I said her udder is not huge and there is so much wool that it hides it very well! 

I’ll try to see if I can take a picture tonight, but to describe it, her udder has been filling up on the sides (don’t know if that makes sense), which has never happened before in all her 8 years of life ( had her for 6 years now). I must say it still looks small compared to my other mare who foaled last year, but that was her third foal, whereas Nougat has no experience in being a Mom.


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## elizabeth.conder (Jan 3, 2022)

So normal is between 8.0 and 8.5. And it can fluctuate. I don’t see quite 7.8 but definitely lower than 8.4. Can be hard to tell in pictures though. She definitely could be in foal but I’m guessing if she is, she probably took at that later date. If she were due in the next couple of days then id “think” there would be more indication. Especially because minis average 320-330 unlike full sized horses at 342. That would explain the lack of a significant belly as well as possible hormonal changes in her udder. Especially with her coming back into heat after the first breeding. Either way, you are wise to watch her. Is she an appaloosa? Or am I seeing snow? Haha, sometimes it’s hard to tell.


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## JFNM miniatures (Jan 3, 2022)

Yes she is an appaloosa ! Although she did have snow on her back on the outside picture.


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## JFNM miniatures (Jan 4, 2022)

LostandFound said:


> Wait, I re read that, she would be due wed? Then a change in ph might be important. For some reason I thought it said the 25th. Definitely need an udder pic.



Ok so I did try to get a picture, but all her hair just blocked the view… so we can’t see much…


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## JFNM miniatures (Jan 4, 2022)

elizabeth.conder said:


> So normal is between 8.0 and 8.5. And it can fluctuate. I don’t see quite 7.8 but definitely lower than 8.4. Can be hard to tell in pictures though. She definitely could be in foal but I’m guessing if she is, she probably took at that later date. If she were due in the next couple of days then id “think” there would be more indication. Especially because minis average 320-330 unlike full sized horses at 342. That would explain the lack of a significant belly as well as possible hormonal changes in her udder. Especially with her coming back into heat after the first breeding. Either way, you are wise to watch her. Is she an appaloosa? Or am I seeing snow? Haha, sometimes it’s hard to tell.



Meant to answer the rest of your message, I just didn’t have the time before.

pH is really looking like 7.8, but the picture doesn’t really show that well.

But since it’s been 4 days that she stays at 7.8, I’m beginning to think that it might just be hormonal changes, like you suggested. In any case, I’ll keep an eye on her, and if she doesn’t progress and have a foal by February, than I’ll just assume she is not pregnant by the first breeding.

I still want to watch her though, cuz I don’t think I’d forgive if I would miss a foaling… it’s like -30 Celcius (-22 F) so not a good time to miss a foaling.


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## elizabeth.conder (Jan 4, 2022)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Meant to answer the rest of your message, I just didn’t have the time before.
> 
> pH is really looking like 7.8, but the picture doesn’t really show that well.
> 
> ...



That’s a wise decision for sure. Especially since she’s a maiden. They can be extra tricky. Wouldn’t surprise me if she is in fact in foal by the second date.


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## Ryan Johnson (Jan 10, 2022)

Welcome back JFNM 

Hows your little mare going ? Agree with Elizabeth maidens can be real tricky  I think she looks more viable for the second date to be in foal. She looks to have some edema in front of her udder, which is a great sign. Hope its warming up for you , that weathers seriously cold.


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## JFNM miniatures (Jan 11, 2022)

Ryan Johnson said:


> Welcome back JFNM
> 
> Hows your little mare going ? Agree with Elizabeth maidens can be real tricky  I think she looks more viable for the second date to be in foal. She looks to have some edema in front of her udder, which is a great sign. Hope its warming up for you , that weathers seriously cold.



Nougat’s bag grew some more, but I’m trying to take less often her pH. 

Otherwise, I keep watching her at night for now, but not much is happening.

And sadly, it got even colder… like -40* Celcius last night. All the horses are inand chicken coop was cold so I had to add a second heat lamp…

They say weather will look like that until Thursday.


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## HersheyMint (Jan 11, 2022)

Sending you lots of warmth!


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## JFNM miniatures (Jan 11, 2022)

Thank you Hershey Mint!


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