# Can a horse's diet affect their stifles



## wade3504 (Jul 3, 2006)

Would a horse's diet affect the way his stifles worked. I have a horse that I got from a friend and when I bought him I saw hisstifle in his back right leg catch slightly once. I worked with him for a couple of weeks before I took him to my place. When i moved him I switched him over to my feed gradually which is Grow N Win. His legs catch quite a bit more now to the point of me possibly having the surgery done. I don't want to do this if it's the feed that caused it to get much worse. One person I talked to thought that maybe he was kicked but I don't think that could have happened on both sides at the same time. Any opinions or suggestions would be helpful.

Sorry I messed up the title. it should be can a horse's diet affect their stifles?


----------



## Robin_C (Jul 3, 2006)

Generally speaking, no -- feeding Gro-N-Win should not affect his stifles in a bad way. That being said, a horse's nutritional affects EVERYTHING about the way his body works. I would be more concerned if you said you feed a handful of All-Stock and yard clippings -- then I would worry about his muscular, ligament and connective tissue development from lack of protein and other nutrients.

Basically, luxation of the patella is a conformation issue and is a result of less than perfect alignment of the joint and its attendant ligamental attachments. Think about a person who has a "wandering eye", where one eye might turn out or turn inward a bit. The attachments that hold the eyeball straight are either too short or too long on one side or the other, so the eye "wanders" rather than remains in the looking straight ahead position. This condition (known as strabismus) is not related to nutrition, but rather to "conformation" of the eyeball and its attachments.

Sometimes it is just a growth issue and given time, the horse will work himself out of the condition. You didn't mention how old this horse was.

Surgery is an option, but before I would resort to that I would pay close attention to hoof trimming and exercise. I find that my "stifly" horses do best when trimmed very frequently, even as much as every 4 weeks. Let those hind toes get long, and it's a sure fire way to get them "sticking". Regular exercise may help strengthen the tendons/ligaments/muscles as well. Another consideration before surgery would be to try a supplement such as Corta-Flx liquid with HA (hyaluronic acid). I've been very happy with the results of this glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM/HA combo in my "sticky" horses. Gosh forbid if I run out and don't give it to them for a few days, because sure enough, we're back to sticky stifles. 3 days after putting them back on it, they're good to go. Doesn't work in every case, but it's worth the $38 for a bottle as a trial - cheaper than surgery!

Robin C


----------



## Miniv (Jul 3, 2006)

You didn't say how old your horse was......

If he's a young horse and you put him on a very high protien diet and then he hits a major growth spurt, then yes, it could affect his stifles. And if that's the case it's not a genetic condition, but something he should grow out of.

If it's a growth issue, I would read Robin's suggestions. If it's a genetic issue, then surgery may be your only option.....in my opinion.

MA


----------



## wade3504 (Jul 3, 2006)

Rudy turned two in March so I guess he could grow some moe but I wouldn't think it would be a major growth spurt. Could a minor growth spurt do it?

He gets the Gro N Win, prchard grass hay, and pasture. I was also going to start flax and boss.


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 3, 2006)

A lack of selenium in the diet can contribute to the condition too, but it's more likely from what you're saying that it's some other sort of change. His feet are being trimmed differently or less frequently, he's being kept in a stall now, less exercise, exercise of a different kind, etc. etc. etc. You might try asking the old owner to look over your routine and see if there's anything she did that you aren't doing.

And be aware, there's a big difference between "luxating patellas" and "upward fixation of the patella." Sticking stifles or locking stifles is usually fixation of the patella, not luxation. Luxation is much more serious and I believe requires vet intervention to alleviate each time. I might be mis-remembering that though!

Robin, thanks for the tip about the joint supplements! I knew it was a good idea to try and prevent that premature arthritis they can sometimes get from sticking but I didn't know it might actually help with the condition itself.

Leia


----------



## Robin_C (Jul 4, 2006)

Thank you Leia -- you caught me in a "medical terminology" moment (30+ years create hard habits to break), using the term "luxation" with respect to its medical meaning of "dislocated". It would have been more appropriate to use the terminology as you pointed out -- upward fixation of the patella -- as that is most likely the condition being referred to by the poster. True "luxating patella" is the much more serious condition of the two, and thankfully less frequently encountered.

In terms of helping with the condition, the results I found are two-fold: a) the hyaluronic acid may help joint lubrication (depending on who you ask with regards to bioavailability of oral HA vs. injected HA) and, b) the other active ingredients in most joint supplements (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM) may address the arthritis that can result.

I do know, without a doubt, that all of my personal horses respond very well to oral HA, and I can definitely tell the difference in all the joint "clicks and clacks" as well as the "stickies" when they are on the product and when they are not. Now if I could just find something that would work equally as well for my aching back!




:

Robin C


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 4, 2006)

Ah, thank you for defining "luxation" for me Robin! I didn't know it meant "dislocated." I just knew it was that other condition where the patella slips out to the side and has to be helped back into place.



:

With regard to the HA (and my apologies for sidetracking the thread), what is the dosage for a large A mini? I've been selfishly trying to avoid giving him supplements because with all our geriatric and Cushings horses Kody is our only feed-and-go critter and I really wanted to keep it simple as long as possible. However his stifles have been _awfully_ sticky this summer despite exercise and I think maybe it's time to start using some pharmaceuticals to try and assist. My vets had all said that joint supplements wouldn't help because it was a tendon thing, but they also said it wouldn't hurt.

Thanks,

Leia


----------



## FairytailGlennMinis (Jul 4, 2006)

I have been feeding Progressive Nutrition grass balancer or Grow N Win for a couple of years now and found that my older gelding with stifle problems (that started from an injury) has gotten better to the point that he no longer locked or popped at all...this from locking and popping with every step. A couple of months ago I noticed him starting to pop a bit now and again and realized the only other thing that had changed...they had run out of the loose minerals! The balance of the feed AND the loose minerals made all the difference in the world! I told a friend about this and of the two geldings she had with popping sounds coming from their stifles (both over age 4) one has completely stopped after a few months of having the loose minerals in the barn. The other had problems from the time she got him at a year old and will have the surgery done on him soon. We have both always kept the salt mineral blocks out, but they just don't get what they need from those--other than giving them somthing to play with that makes them drink more.

-Amy


----------



## Robin_C (Jul 4, 2006)

> With regard to the HA (and my apologies for sidetracking the thread), what is the dosage for a large A mini?


I provide the Corta-Flx with HA at 1/4 the dose of the 1000 lb big horse dose -- about 5 cc per day. CortaFlx "claims" to have overcome the "size of the molecule" controversy with the oral HA, and my trials have shown that at least for my own horses, they respond better to higher doses of oral HA as compared to joint supplements containing none, and they do better on the Corta-Flx/HA than any other product I've trialed. My crippled little dwarf literally gallops across the field now -- so fast that I can hardly catch him sometimes. He definitely could NOT do that before the joint supplement and on the rare occasion that I am out of the product, it only takes days for him to stiffen up. That it a separate issue, however, surely related to arthritis and does not answer why it might help a horse with stifle problems since yes - this is a ligamentous issue and how the ligaments mechanically interact with the joint causing the fixation/sticking. I have no anatomical explanation for it, only anecdotal in that my horses with sticky stifles definitely do better when they are on a joint supplement -- perhaps due to the extra lubrication, or perhaps reduction of inflammation causing them to carry/move the leg a little differently, ???? -- theories which are all conjecture on my part.

And to get back to the original poster's question, nutrition during the growth stages of your horse MAY have been a factor in development of joint issues, but without further information on how he was fed as a weanling and yearling, it would be impossible to determine if nutrition was contributory. More likely, his sticking stifle is conformation-related which you can work to correct using one or more of the methods noted above. If you end up going the surgery route, however, it seems that the most recent articles available on this subject are much more favorable than many years ago when it was considered a procedure of last resort.

Robin C


----------



## BRONSKIMAN (Jul 4, 2006)

Amy, can you tell me what loose minerals are?? Is that like a mineral lick for horses or something else??


----------



## Charlotte (Jul 4, 2006)

Boy! this is really good information! I hadn't thouight of trying the joint supplements for the sticky stifles. It seems every couple of years we have a show candidate come in with this issue. It has been most commonly seen in the youngsters, 1, 2, 3 year olds, that look to have nutrition problems too....thin, poor coat etc. We have had real good results with Rejuvenaid and Foalaid.......vitamins ADE & selenium and other 'stuff' plus a good general nutrition program. That would kind of go along with the free choice minerals helping. Next time we have one I'm going to try CortaflxHA. Had never thought of that before...thanks RobinC & Amy!

Charlotte


----------



## FairytailGlennMinis (Jul 6, 2006)

I use the Purina 12 12 loose minerals and just keep a few inches of it in a bucket in the barn where the herd has access to it all the time. I truly believe that has done the trick.

-Amy


----------



## Magnolia_dream (Jul 6, 2006)

wow this is great! my shetlands stilfe has been acting up lately, i hope it's not getting arthritic, he has had it for 3 years now, i've just been hoping he would out grow it, he is now 6 so he probably won't, i think i'm gonna try to get him the ligament splitting surgery, not the one where they actually cut the ligament in half, but the just make cuts in it to make the ligament thicken and it stops the problem 90% of the time, though i don' think any of my local vets do this, does anyone have any experience with this? he has been getting exercise and had his hooves trimmed about a week ago so i'm thinking thats probably why it's acting up.


----------

