# Watched the Western Regional AMHA



## RhineStone (Jul 26, 2010)

I got a chance to watch some of the Western Regional AMHA show this weekend. I haven't been to a mini breed show in a while, so it was fun to be able to "go" to one.

I got to watch a Classic, Country, and Single Pleasure driving class, as well as the Country and Single finals. There were some nice moving horses there. I pretty much pinned the Classic class the way the judge did, except I reversed the top pair, but could have gone either way. Both of those horses were very "fluid" movers compared to the others in the ring. Some of the other classes weren't "judgeable" from the camera angle (left it in the corner of the ring or didn't show the class placings). Of course, with the camera angle, you don't get to see the whole ring anyway.

I did get to see all the Youth Showmanship patterns, and pinned those classes exactly as the judge. The kids that won were tremendous!!!

Some things that surprised me in relation to the ADS driving that we do now is that the AMHA drivers were only in the ring for 5 min. or less! ADS classes are like 20 min.! You better not mess up in 5 min. because you don't get much of a second chance! (I realize they have to get through 100 some odd classes in the weekend.)

I was also surprised that when the line up was called, drivers came in the line up from all directions in the back of the arena. We try to come in off the rail straight to our spot. It's a little more "organized" that way.

Then, when they got their horse stopped, 80% of the drivers immediately dropped their hands on their knees and some even put their whip in the holder!




That is a major no-no in an ADS show. You have to "show" the entire class, not "collapse" when you are "done". You are still being judged even in line up. We knew that even for our 4-H riding shows! That was probably the biggest thing that surprised me.

I would have also liked to see more space in between the carts, at least one cart's width. Some seemed a little close and could have potential "wheel-kissing".



They seemed to congregate close together. Is it also looked down upon to circle back to find your own spot on the rail? There were quite a few drivers that were "bunched" up. The camera view would be blank, and then a bunch of horses would go past. I teach my students to "make the judge work", and find your own spot on the rail. If you are too close to your fellow competitor, you make it really easy for the judge to compare you!





Everyone seemed to be having a good time, and the horses were good for the most part.

I didn't do so well picking the halter champions. I wanted to see more balance and what was picked was definitely more level in the croup than I would like (and I even have part-Arabs). Very few of the halter horses tracked up at all at the walk or trot. I guess that is the difference nowadays between a halter and a performance horse.

All in all, it was fun for me to watch. From the camera angle, some of those horses didn't look just 34"! Some of those handlers must have been awful short!





Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 26, 2010)

I was informed at my last show (thankfully _before_ my halter classes) that they aren't judging action at the walk and trot but rather if the horse tracks straight from the rear view. And silly me, here I'd been trotting my horse out to show his paces!



When I slowed down and did that silly little shuffle like everyone else, suddenly we placed well. Hmm....

Leia


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## targetsmom (Jul 26, 2010)

Just curious Myrna- in those driving classes (sorry I missed them) could you see a difference between the different trots?


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## RhineStone (Jul 27, 2010)

targetsmom said:


> Just curious Myrna- in those driving classes (sorry I missed them) could you see a difference between the different trots?


You know, in the big scheme of things, no, I don't remember seeing much of a difference, not like an ADS show where if the judge can't tell the difference, you won't place well at all. They used different terms for the trots but I couldn't "define" what each one was based on what I saw. (What _is_ a Pleasure Trot?



) The Single Pleasure horses had more "reach" in one of the trots, but I picked the horses that had reach, roundness (knee action), _and_ fluidity.

Myrna


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## Sue_C. (Jul 27, 2010)

> Then, when they got their horse stopped, 80% of the drivers immediately dropped their hands on their knees and some even put their whip in the holder! That is a major no-no in an ADS show. You have to "show" the entire class, not "collapse" when you are "done". You are still being judged even in line up. We knew that even for our 4-H riding shows! That was probably the biggest thing that surprised me.


I know what you mean!



That last on-line show I watched, I was absolutely shocked when the drivers all went to the middle of the ring, all akilter, sat back in thier seats, stuck whips in holders, and even talking loudly across others to each other...laughing and carrying on...and the judge standing behind them, STILL writing on his judging papers. O-M-G-!!



We show to Equine Canadian rules, which are very similar, if not the same as, your ADS rules. the most we will do, as long as the judge has that paper in his hands, is talk "out the side of your mouth" to the guy next to you...if he is close enough...

It shows a HUGE lack of knowledge and basic RESPECT for the judges to behave in this manner, IMO.


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## Sandee (Jul 27, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> I know what you mean!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you have to think about where many of these people came from or who gave them their instructions. Many are from the BIG horse world, or their instructors, are where, at least at open shows, the atmosphere is a bit more relaxed and they do joke and talk in line up. I'd bet that they simply don't know any better. Many of the drivers don't ever have proper instruction on driving but are handed the reins and told to treat it just like riding!

I don't mean this as a criticism but just what happens. I know, that's how I started!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 27, 2010)

The "big horse world" is where I was taught it is never okay to act in such a manner until the judge turns in his cards.



That was drummed into my head in 4-H, held true at local saddleclub shows and was also observed at Arabian A circuit shows. At my local mini shows, both A and R, I have always seen drivers respecting that unwritten rule as well. Sometimes they'll put their whip down prematurely but they stay sitting up tall and silent with the reins held properly until the last judge turns in his card, then everyone relaxes and starts talking. Many of those drivers were at the Western Regionals and the only driving class I watched (on Friday morning) had a silent and respectful lineup.

I do agree that new drivers are often not told what to do but if the rest of the lineup stays "showing" until the end, the new person will usually follow suit.

Leia


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 27, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> You know, in the big scheme of things, no, I don't remember seeing much of a difference, not like an ADS show where if the judge can't tell the difference, you won't place well at all.
> 
> Myrna


Hmm I saw some wonderful little driving horses who were great examples of the divisons they were in. I saw some that perhaps were well not so much lol but there were some who had quite a easy disticnt difference between gaits


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## RhineStone (Jul 27, 2010)

~Lisa~ said:


> Hmm I saw some wonderful little driving horses who were great examples of the divisons they were in. I saw some that perhaps were well not so much lol but there were some who had quite a easy disticnt difference between gaits


Maybe the classes you were watching weren't the same as the ones I watched.



In ADS shows, a Slow Trot is not quite a western pleasure jog, slower but still with forward momentum. A Working Trot like a Hunter working trot, forward but with an "easy" pace; "get to town, but don't 'kill' yourself". A Strong Trot is extremely forward, definite increase in pace, and it is helpful if your horse shows some extension in the leg. What I saw with most of the horses would pretty much classify itself as a Working Trot, as the Collected Trots and "Pleasure Trots" (???) that I saw were not collected enough to be that in an ADS show. In an ADS show, the gaits need to be distinctive enough that you should be able to say, "that horse is doing a ___ trot" without hearing the call.

I'm not saying that the online classes were wrong, they just were not at all like ADS classes (what I am used to) and somebody asked what I thought about them. I watched classes on Sat. and Sun.

As far as "letting down" after the judge's card is in, I teach my students to show the entire class even up to the pinning, even simply from the perspective that a sideline photographer might get a _good_ shot of you in the lineup that would have been _great_ if you were "sitting up". Also, more than likely you will show under that judge again, either that day, weekend, or at a different show. It leaves a very good, professional impression of you when you keep showing the entire class. We even did that at the county fair!



And like I said, ADS classes are 20 min., and we keep sitting up! Those whips must be HEAVY and the show carts must REALLY be uncomfortable that people want to slouch right away when the rail work is done!





Myrna


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## Sue_C. (Jul 27, 2010)

> The "big horse world" is where I was taught it is never okay to act in such a manner until the judge turns in his cards


Exactly SO!!! Like I said, we drive using EC rules, many times competing with ponies and horses in open competitions. You want to _beleive_ they know how to show a horse...and no, that isn't only driving either. I showed for many years under saddle as well, and NO ONE EVER would even consider talking, or slouching/slacking-off while in line-up...until you get that ribbon, (or not) you are showing your horse.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 27, 2010)

Myrna I do agree it is just different.

We have a ADS club here that I volunteer at often and it is very different for me to watch their driving classes.

I also watch the HUS classes here (that is my background prior to minis) and have to sort of chuckle. They have West Pleasure horses doing HUS and thinking it is so simply due to the tack change

Takes a lot of getting used to to see something totally different then what we normally watch


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 27, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> What I saw with most of the horses would pretty much classify itself as a Working Trot, as the Collected Trots and "Pleasure Trots" (???) that I saw were not collected enough to be that in an ADS show. In an ADS show, the gaits need to be distinctive enough that you should be able to say, "that horse is doing a ___ trot" without hearing the call.


The trot names are not consistent between the registries and/or the different driving divisions. It drives me insane trying to keep track of them with my dressage background so I long ago had to tell myself that "collected trot" in AMHA means "the horse is trotting without being strung out" and does not in any way refer to actual collection. It is essentially a working trot and the "extended trot" should show a clear lengthening.

As for it being unprofessional to let down after the cards are turned in, well, what can I say? We're out there to have fun and socialize. I bet our show carts are more comfortable than the sticks I see shoved up so many ADS rumps!






Some of ya'll need to learn to loosen up and have a good time.





Leia


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## Sue_C. (Jul 27, 2010)

> As for it being unprofessional to let down after the cards are turned in, well, what can I say? We're out there to have fun and socialize


I do MY scocializing back at the barn...not in the ring.





As for leting down AFTER the cards are turned in...that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. What I saw, and am certain this is what Myrna is talking about...is the "let down" BEFORE the cards are turned in. I even saw the judge walk back and forth behind and between a few of the horses...STILL JUDGING THEM, while the "drivers" were sitting there sociallizing and having a great 'ol time...THAT showed a marked lack of respect...and were I the judge, they would know it, and be ready to show PROPERLY in the next class I saw them in.


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## R Whiteman (Jul 27, 2010)

I too get a bit tired of the barrage of criticism of the breed shows. I sort of feel if the people are going to get so upset watching or dislike what they see so much maybe they should not watch and we that show in that venue are better off without them. I show in both the ADS venue and in both the AMHR and AMHA breed rings. I do feel that many people in the ADS world could be a bit less stuffy. Yes, there are things that would be better if they were changed in the breed rings. ADS has some archaic rules also. I am going to try and make those changes from within the organizations , not from a critical eye on the outside. That said , one should remember that when in Rome one should act like a Roman. Relax and enjoy. There are some months that we show at two ADS events and two breed shows. Our horses don't have any problem making the change. Why should the people ? Each venue has something to offer to those who wish to drive. Some of us may even celebrate the difference between the two. Just cause they are different doesn't make them bad.

Ron


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## RhineStone (Jul 27, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> The trot names are not consistent between the registries and/or the different driving divisions. It drives me insane trying to keep track of them with my dressage background so I long ago had to tell myself that "collected trot" in AMHA means *"the horse is trotting without being strung out"* and does not in any way refer to actual collection.
> 
> Hmm...that would be why I didn't really see any collection. But what still is a "Pleasure Trot"? Why would you drive a horse in any show that is strung out?
> 
> ...


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## RhineStone (Jul 27, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> As for leting down AFTER the cards are turned in...that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. What I saw, and am certain this is what Myrna is talking about...is the "let down" BEFORE the cards are turned in. I even saw the judge walk back and forth behind and between a few of the horses...STILL JUDGING THEM, while the "drivers" were sitting there sociallizing and having a great 'ol time...THAT showed a marked lack of respect...and were I the judge, they would know it, and be ready to show PROPERLY in the next class I saw them in.


This is *exactly* what I am referring to, and if you read my original post, it said that I was surprised that this happened, because it doesn't happen at ANY show I have ever been to, _riding or driving, open, 4-H, or breed show, or ADS_. I practically saw some drivers "let down" even before they got their horses stopped in line up. (Read...horse still producing forward movement and driver's hands dropped on knees chatting with neighbor, judge still standing near the front of the line, not yet inspecting anyone.) I just figured at a Regional show, that you would show to the end.



This was in both the middle of the day and end of the show classes I watched.

I really don't think it has anything to do with people having _fun or not_, it's just what you do in ANY show. Does this happen at the National show, too?



If it does, then so be it, but if you are expected to show to the end there, then practice makes perfect. Just an observation from an _outsider _horseman that might help people's presentation.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 27, 2010)

Well-said, Ron!



Sue_C. said:


> I do MY scocializing back at the barn...not in the ring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good for you Sue, that's great. I was responding to this quote:



> As far as "letting down" *after the judge's card is in, I teach my students to show the entire class*...


I don't believe I was misinterpreting Myrna's statement _as written_. I already agreed with you earlier that it is inappropriate and disrespectful to be boisterous in the lineup or in any way stop showing before the class is done but when the judges themselves start chatting after the cards go in, I don't see that it's terrible for the competitors to do the same amongst themselves.



> But what still is a "Pleasure Trot"? Why would you drive a horse in any show that is strung out?


You wouldn't, of course. I think a Pleasure Trot is just the pleasant working gait, the one that makes the horse a pleasure to drive through the country. You KNOW if they just said "Trot" someone would throw a fit! So it gets labeled a "collected trot" or "Pleasure trot" or whatever to indicate it's the basic gait.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Jul 27, 2010)

R Whiteman said:


> I too get a bit tired of the barrage of criticism of the breed shows. I sort of feel if the people are going to get so upset watching or dislike what they see so much maybe they should not watch and we that show in that venue are better off without them.
> 
> I DIDN'T SAY I WAS UPSET (although now I'm not thrilled for being accused of it....
> 
> ...


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## Kendra (Jul 27, 2010)

> Some of the AMHA judges are also licensed ADS judges. I looked at the list!


Whoa, really?? I'm off to check that out and make a list for next years shows!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 27, 2010)

> Nobody has STILL explained what a PLEASURE TROT is! Or if there is a reason that more competitors didn't circle back and find their own spot on the rail. Is that a No-No or are the competitors just inexperienced like was mentioned by someone else before?


Speaking of reading carefully...



I addressed the Pleasure trot issue in my last post. I may not be RIGHT, but I did try!





As for circling back, the rules state you are to show on the rail so circling into the center or cutting across the arena is considered a form of grand-standing and is a no-no. It's bad to be off the rail because you can't find a spot but it's worse to go further off the rail in order to get to one. Or at least that's what the rationale seems like to me! I refuse to sabotage my own horse by pulling him up to fit behind another rig so if I can't pass and can't get a spot without cutting near a judge I will just stay there and create a space when they call for a transition. I do a lot of bending and going deep in my corners in order to not run over the horse in front of me if I'm already on the rail.

I do apologize for my part in making this thread become a little heated but like Ron I get tired of the unconsciously supercilious attitude that comes across in some of these posts. *Myrna's original post was just fine and I have no problem with it!* But since then there's been a lot of "I would never do that" and implications from several folks that "If you don't show all the way out the gate you're unprofessional, ignorant and lazy; OUR shows would not reward horses without clear gait distinctions; etc." and it gets irritating.

If we misinterpret something, say so!



All we can do is read what is written and assume an individual meant what they said, as in the case of showing all the way out of the gate.

*At all the AMHA/R shows I've attended it is normal for exhibitors to continue showing at least until the cards are in.* That is when the class is "done." I 100% agree that it is a no-no to stop showing before then at the very least, and that it is never a good idea to throw away your reins and whip as you would then have no control if the horse spooked or the one next to you blew up. If people did that at Regionals they were in the wrong and we all agree on that. A horse with good gait distinction and a nice fluid way of moving should place over one who does not. We all agree on that. If the judges did not reward that then _they_ are in the wrong. It doesn't mean the shows aren't as good or as professional as another type of show however, only that there's a problem with that individual's training.

Leia


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## susanne (Jul 27, 2010)

Did I miss a page of this thread or something? I simply did not see the attitude some have suggested.

I found Myrna's observations to be very interesting and open-minded; she commented upon the differences, and mentioned her surprise at some things, but I never read her comments as arch or condescending.

I believe that Myrna is taking undeserved heat for an imagined slight..

Yes, there was a slight bias in favor of ADS on several posts, but so what? People have their preferences -- this is true of all disciplines.

And whatever the discipline, just because "that is how things are done" doesn't mean it won't have its detractors -- look at what people say about the Quarter Horse Western Pleasure driving classes!

I really don't want to see the Driving Forum become part of the teddy bear sweatshirt brigade, where nobody dares state an opinion for fear of bruising someone's feelings.

Then again, this is just my opinion, and we all know I view the world from my left-handed, all-around lefty perspective.


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## Sue_C. (Jul 28, 2010)

susanne said:


> Did I miss a page of this thread or something? I simply did not see the attitude some have suggested.
> 
> I found Myrna's observations to be very interesting and open-minded; she commented upon the differences, and mentioned her surprise at some things, but I never read her comments as arch or condescending.
> 
> ...







What she said...


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## R Whiteman (Jul 28, 2010)

susanne said:


> Yes, there was a slight bias in favor of ADS on several posts, but so what? People have their preferences -- this is true of all disciplines.
> 
> And whatever the discipline, just because "that is how things are done" doesn't mean it won't have its detractors -- look at what people say about the Quarter Horse Western Pleasure driving classes!
> 
> ...


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## ClickMini (Jul 28, 2010)

Well said, Dorothy. At the last show I was in the lineup, frozen in place in a driving stance. Patty was heading for me, and she said, "Amy! Amy, RELAX!!!"



I tend to get very tight when I show. I needed that! Patty is a carded judge herself.

I am very glad that they did the webcast and people got to see what the shows are like. I wish I would have been able to take the time to watch, too. When I heard about the Classic division, the very first horse I thought of was the Reserve Grand at that show: Sky Blue Remington's Ricochet. She has the most incredible floaty motion, but she definitely has a lower set neck and a very flat outline naturally. I love this mare! She is going to be an awesome all-around horse in the years to come.


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## Dontworrybeappy (Jul 28, 2010)

R Whiteman said:


> As to the disrespect shown the judges in the line-up, I'm sure that none of those people thought of it that way (well, at least most of them) It is the same to them as when the judges finish with the halter horses and everyone stops showing and moves off to the rail to visit. If you continue to show your horse, you will be standing out there all by yourself. I think it is a practice that looks bad to those watching for the first time (or anytime), but it is the way it is done, none the less.
> 
> Dorothy


Generally the only time halter horses go to the rail is after the announcement is made that they are "excused to the rail" to wait for results.

I watched the end of one driving class on the webcast where two ladies were in animated conversation during the line up - so animated that they were talking with their hands... one of the ladies (someone I hold great respect for in most cases) not only had put down her whip, but had her reins in her lap while she chatted and relaxed... at one point even putting her feet up on the dash of her cart! I actually exclaimed out loud to my computer screen when I saw that!





I've only shown in breed shows and local open driving shows, and I'm all for having fun - that's why I show too... but there's a balance between enjoying yourself and just plain "decorum" that does show a respect for the process, the judges and the rest of the entrants. There's also a line involving *safety* that you don't cross if you're not alone in the ring.


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## Margo_C-T (Jul 28, 2010)

Point well-made, and right on target, Appy!

I have been showing in breed rings, open, and ADS-rules(ONCE, the Open Driving classes at our State Fair 'went for'ADS approval, TD and all, but the cost was so high, it was never tried again)since the early '70s. One of the most well-respected riding instructors in my area, a man who trained you to train your horse AND present it at its best, taught that it was important to keep showing until you were 'released', so to speak, and I believe in doing so.

In the miniature breed ring, there are even today a considerable number who really don't 'know' much about horses or the showing of them; this may explain a lot of the sloppy stuff you see...but back when, it was expected that you'd STUDY and LEARN about a subject you intended to immerse yourself in, so not knowing is really not an excuse. Standards exist for a reason; when they are allowed to fall, so does successful accomplishment.

I did the 'breed show thing' for a good number of years, esp. in miniatures, and with good success --even though I never traveled extensively(and didn't want to; I wanted to ENJOY it(and I DID-- believe me, I DID!)--but, not feel DRIVEN by it.)As my 'education' in driving progressed--AND, things changed in the miniature breed show ring, from the friendly easy-going atmosphere when I began to an increasingly widespread 'anything goes as long as I win' approach, complete with what I consider abuse of horses(NOT SAYING everyone does it; that's never the case, in any breed...but the sad fact is that more and more DO, in about EVERY breed)...I lost my desire to participate in much of what's offered there...so I don't, and I won't, again.

Susanne, what you wrote was just 'perfect'...and I'm a confirmed 'righty', in MOST but not ALL, ways!-- I really admire what you said-went right to the heart of the matter.

I am not particularly 'PC', so I would say that I think a couple of you owe Myrna an apology. You know, it is NOT against any law for someone to hold their own opinions,have faith in the evidence of their own experiences and education, and not walk in lockstep with the opinions some of you may hold.(And to allude to the 'stick up some ADS members'rumps' is, I believe, needlessly insulting, and quite beneath the dignity of the one who posted it.There may well BE some 'elitism' among the ADS'ers on the coasts...so what else is new?--but to point a snide remark about it to a fellow LB Driving Forum member who did NOT deserve it was uncalled-for. Yes, my opinion.

Frankly, I am one who has come to GREATLY prefer ADS-style, warts and all, over miniature breed ring manner and style--and I'm not shy about saying so... so shoot me!! (I started in the '50s with QHs, and I don't care ONE BIT for the sick, sad way they have been 'prostituted'over the years, either, in halter conformation and ring movement(rail, mostly)- and I don't hesitate to say so, including how they are driven and 'go' in the breed ring!) Additionally,in a breed show(AMHA)-I have(gasp!) gone right ahead and circled to an open space on the ring on occasion...when going deep into the corners and other practices haven't been enough. I KNOW WHAT I AM DOING, and how to do it! Often? NO, but when I had to...I don't think it ever 'hurt' me. I did know the rules, made it a point to when I was showing...but I also trust my own experience and judgement.

I also have(gasp again!!) used breeching in the breed ring, and when I had a good 'go', did well under judges who truly knew their subject(many still do NOT, in the miniature breed rings, at least where driving is concerned.)

Being an ADS-carded judge is not a 'guarantee' of being a 'good' judge, either...as in ANY organization, there are some really GOOD ones, and some who are really NOT so good.

Fire away; I'm old and my hide is tough. I have, and have had, some mighty good horses; well-trained and reliable. I am at the point where I will enjoy them outside of most 'show rings', but I feel I have the right, based on experience and a great immersion in the subject in general, still to have valid opinions and comments on the direction of the sport. I admire those of you who are active and always working to be 'better' at this,BTW--that's what it's about, not imagining offense where none was intended.

Margo


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## Marsha Cassada (Jul 28, 2010)

When I was volunteering at an A show last summer I was running around pretty much in different directions. A spectator asked me what was the difference in the gaits in the Pleasure Class. The spectator suggested the difference in collected trot and working trot was speed. I gave the quick answer, becasue I needed to be somewhere quickly, which was yes. I wish I had had time to give the long answer--as I understand it: The working trot should have more extention. Correct?

One does not often see it at the shows; I think it takes lots of training for a horse to show extension, and most of the driving classes are more to show the horse CAN work in harness.

I like the observations about correct manners in the line-up. Sometimes we need to be reminded that we are on camera at those events and representing our organizations and horses. We ask our horses to be well groomed and mannerly; why should we expect less of ourselves?


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 28, 2010)

I do appreciate that my comment was snide and apologize for giving offense. I too would hate to see honest appraisal and frank conversation censored on this forum but I felt that the comments about our whips being SO HEAVY and our carts SO UNCOMFORTABLE were so condescending that they deserved a response. I know they were said with an edge of humor- so was mine. Do any of us really have to sink to that level?

Leia


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## RhineStone (Jul 28, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Speaking of reading carefully...
> 
> 
> 
> I addressed the Pleasure trot issue in my last post. I may not be RIGHT, but I did try!


We must have been posting at the same time, or I was drafting.

OK, I have let this mill around my head for a while. I think this is a case of, "I know you think you understand what you think I wrote, but I know that what you read is not what I meant." 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who understood that I wasn't trying to be critical with ANY of my comments. I also wasn't trying to show any bias towards ADS events, but trying to show the differences. Apparently, it didn't come off that way.

 

As far as my joke in regards to carts being uncomfortable and whips being heavy, you have to understand where I am coming from. Here is a video that I found that illustrates how long we are in the ring at an ADS show, and it doesn't even include the inspection of each turnout, which usually takes another ten minutes or so. 


 (This is a Championship class, with one horse from each division in the class, hence all the different sized horses.) 

I remember thinking the first time I showed at an ADS show ten years ago, "Wow, when are they going to call for the walk!" I couldn't believe how long we had to trot! We never worked that long at any other show I had been to, 4-H, open, or breed show. Now, when I work my horse, it isn't uncommon for me to trot (different speeds) for 25-40 min. straight. 

 

More than likely, I too saw the class that Karen did where the lady put down her whip and practically dropped her reins. When I think of how long we have to drive a class, some of the webcast's driver's "reactions" when they were done with their five minutes of rail work seemed "comical". I read it as, "Whew, that was a tough drive!" Many of us here do CDEs where you are out on the course for a 30+ minutes! Now, granted, I know that some of the drivers are showing in multiple classes all day/all weekend. 

 

You also have to understand that I started showing ADS shows in a Wagonner show cart. That WAS the absolutely most uncomfortable cart that I have EVER rode in! It was literally like sitting on a board! And it had no backrest. (Here is a photo of the turnout we used. This is my sister driving, and (gasp!) we didn't use breeching either when we first started out.)

 






I also noticed that many of the drivers held their whips straight up, and like we have had discussions about before, that IS tiring! Some of the drivers held their whip at a 45-degree angle, and that way is not as tiring, especially if your whip is well balanced. 

 

In the big scheme of things, there are some ADS drivers who "relax" some in line up when the cards are turned in, but most of us have already sat up for almost 20 min., what's another few? And as you can see, the photographer is not in the arena like the breed shows, and actually it is not uncommon for there to be multiple professional photographers snapping shots. Here is an example of a shot taken of me this year in line up (which I didn't know was being taken). 



　

 

Can you imagine how this photo would look if I were in my typical relaxed slouch with my hands on my legs? Yuck. Therefore, I choose to have me and my students stay "upright" for the whole class. I didn't say that anyone was lazy for not doing so, I said that is what I choose to do and teach! (I didn't even _think_ anyone was lazy for doing so. I did think that it wasn't overly professional to do even before the cards were in, and like has been said, I wasn't _imagining_ this.)

 

Now, as to the differentiation of gaits, if you go back to the YouTube above, you will see that when they call a Strong Trot, the turnouts definitely move out. It is what is expected at all levels. If you want to place well, it is primary (besides manners). Look at the difference especially between the Slow Trot and the Strong Trot. The horse's frame is different as well as the speed. I do think that the video actually _slows_ the horses down more than they look in person, though. Maybe this is the case with the webcast, too. 



 Again, a few years ago when I was a Novice Driver learning what a Strong Trot was, I remember thinking, "OMG, this is so fast!" Granted, I was in a cart with a Morgan, but we also show a big horse, and _then_ I knew what Strong Trot meant. When I was defining the ADS gaits here, it was to help people understand where I was coming from in not seeing the differentiation in the webcast horses. I wasn't saying that ADS was better, just that when the Strong Trot is called, the whole class seems to be like a tidal wave of power moving past you, even the minis, and like I said before in relation to someone else's comment, I didn't see it in the webcast. Maybe the AMHA discourages that much speed. (The Strong Trot in the ring isn't anywhere near the speed produced on the obstacle courses, though! Obstacles rock! )

 

I can also see the idea of "showing on the rail" now. We don't have that rule persay, but as you see in the video, "grandstanding" is not a problem. I do remember one year that a gentleman showed up with an Andalusian. He spent most of his classes "bouncing around" the judge. It was annoying to watch. A lot of us were "dying" to see that horse move out on the rail, but he never did, which like I said, is what the judge wants to see. You could tell he was trying to "force" a placing, but it totally backfired and he didn't place at all. So I can now understand why you have such a rule, but like Margo said, I think that circling back would still be a good idea to show your horse to the best of it's ability, especially during the "big" trot, whatever you call it. When I first started showing Alax, I would try to "fit" behind another horse. Chad pointed out to me that Alax moved so much bigger that by not getting off the rail to find a spot, he never actually produced much of a Strong Trot. When I finally decided to let him go down the rail in our own spot, our placings got a whole lot better.

 

I was skeptical initially about posting this topic, but decided that it was very interesting for me to see the differences. I should have known that someone was going to take my comments the wrong way. 





 

Myrna


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 28, 2010)

I guess it goes to show all ADS shows are different. The ones we have here they do not trot around nearly that long. It is pretty much as quick as the breed shows. Short of the ADT which of course takes a while to do the pattern . But again all shows and all areas are going to be a bit different.


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