# Miniature Nationals



## LostInOz

O.K. I admit. I took a look at the mini nationals show prize list for the first time ever today (after 5+ years in Shetlands) I never had an interest in Minis - to each his own. Nothing against them, they are cute, just not for me, as I am bigger so want a bigger pony. I have always wondered what the big "fight" between mini and Shetland people is about - there seems to be a lot of animosity - but that's another thread.

My question is: Why isn't the Shetland Congress patterned more after the Mini Nationals?

Nationals Vs. Congress:

Why doesn't the Congress have all the youth classes on the first 3 days?

Why doesn't the Congress have its show in a cooler time of year?

Why doesn't the Congress have vendor donations of tack, harness, show cart, and more?

Why doesn't the Congress have $375 Stake classes?

Why doesn't the Congress have $1000 Incentive classes?

LOOK! The stallion halter championship is a few hours after the qualifying classes, so the horses don't come into their championship class fried mentally.

I don't see where the entry fees are all that outrageous either.

These are all the basic things that Shetland people are crying for, and the Minis have, so why not???

They ARE the same registry, right? If the Congress were to "UPGRADE" and just COPY the Nationals to be like the nationals, wouldn't that improve the entries and therefore the $$$ taken in?

I mean, this looks like a real national level show. Since it is the same show management, then obviously ASPC is capable of putting on a National level show (sorry, Congress is NOT)

So where is the downfall? What happened to cause such a separation of TYPE of shows?	Couldn't the Congress copy the Nationals?

So I guess I'm asking, WHO DOES THE CONGRESS SHOW SCHEDULE AND HOW CAN I BE PART OF IT???

because I want a CHANGE!


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## ~Lisa~

All your answers are pretty simple... MONEY it all comes down to money and the amount of horses/ponies attending the show dictate the money.

It is great all these people want more and more for Congress and it would be wonderful. However I think the key is to increase the ASPC shows locally and Nationally and then ask for even more.

You can not compare the difference in shows as you can not compare 1700 horses to 500 two totally different things IMO

Without starting the debate on ASPC/R horses I think a huge key for ASPC is to figure out how to get those same horses to not only show AMHR but to get to the ASPC shows as well. The more ponies show the more shows offer classes- the larger the classes locally consistently the larger the Congress classes the larger the Congress classes the more $ can be put back into it...


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## Lewella

Compare the class lists of the ASPC shows in Area 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 to the Congress class list - what do you see? Tons of classes that are offered locally but never offered at Congress. In my opinion the number one way to increase entries at Congress - OFFER ALL THE CLASSES AVAILABLE just like is done at Nationals. If the current Congress schedule was done smarter the show wouldn't even have be any longer. I know a number of people who don't show at Congress because it is pointless for them to do so as the classes they are running top in the All Star's in aren't even offered at Congress!

Personally, I have a HUGE problem with the two shows not being equal in offerings, prizes, etc. as we are one club and number of horses attending a show should not effect how one division or registry is treated over another. It is time for Congress to be treated like the national show it is. There are tons of things that are done for Nationals that are not done for Congress. If you show at Nationals you get something other than just a red ribbon for reserve, neck ribbons are awarded to class champions, there is an exhibitor dinner, every optional class is available - why shouldn't you get those things at Congress? Did Nationals grow because it limited its class list and prizes? NO it grew because more and more classes and prizes were offered by the club!

Enough of the nickle and dime mentality! Yes we need to be fiscally responsible but we do not need to be cheap!


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## LaVern

Lewella, I don't care if the Congress has trophy's nine feet tall and three thousand classes are added, just don't dip into my pockets to get the money for it. I don't ask someone else to pay my way and I don't see why some Shetland people think that it is okay to do so. Perhaps they have gotten so used to doing it. I am not political, but I know one thing, if you are going to dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

Perhaps there are so many classes at the Area shows, because the miniatures are there to support the shows. Just when I thought nothing could rile me up again. I guess money does it.

And also Nationals grew because we came and promoted our own horses instead of expecting some one else to do it for us. Renee LaBarre Reiten


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## ~Lisa~

LaVern I agree. I think before Congress can demand more money being spent first they need to find a permanent location- quit the threat of boycotting locations- and actually be close to breaking even when those things happen then sure put a bit more money into it

We all want nice things and paybacks and nice awards but priorites have to be to bring all those R/ASPC ponies back into the Shetland ring and find an agreeable home for the show.

I to want Congress to grow and be successful but before we throw money into the pit I think there are a couple things that need to happen first.

As far as awards and trophies maybe look to the ASPC members to help with those. I know quite a few really stepped up to the plate this year and in years past.

We all want nice things and paybacks and nice awards but priorites have to be to bring all those R/ASPC ponies back into the Shetland ring and work on the tantrums to stop


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## Minimor

I agree with Lewella. A National show should look like a National show! Quite frankly, from what bits & pieces of Congress I got to watch on the webcast this year, the show did look CHEAP. Up until this Congress I was all keen on someday getting to go & show my ponies at Congress. After seeing what I saw on the webcast....and then hearing some of the comments and complaints from people that were actually at the show in Ardmore....I now have absolutely no interest in attending.

So, you've got some people that are turned off by a show that appears cheap (and I know I'm not the only one!!) you've got other people that don't show because the classes they want to show in aren't even offered...and I guess the show isn't likely to prosper & grow!

And honestly I get tired of hearing about the poor, hard done by Miniatures having to support everything. Why don't you complain about the thousands that are wasted on some of the supposed promotional events? A mere fraction of what was spent on sending ponies to China would pay the expenses to upgrade Congress into a National caliber event that would do far more to promote ponies than the ponies to China thing did. Does that help the Miniatures? No, but neither did sending ponies to China!

Put Congress in a central location & keep it there, and maybe you would get more ponies and so more entry money. And sometimes you have to spend money to make money--that can be true of any business. But no, let's just keep denying the funding for Congress, keep complaining if it doesn't break even, and make no effort to upgrade the show into something that looks like a National show, because it's nice to be able to keep pointing fingers at Congress and the ponies and complaining that it's just a money pit.

And Lisa, you questioned on an earlier thread why I would say that the Mini people would cut Congress if they had the power to do so??? Listen to what some are saying. Listen to what you yourself are saying! The premise is there. I saw it before I got any ponies...when I was still just "a Mini person". Initially I thought the same as Renee, that "it's not fair" how this organization is run, take from the Minis to cater to the ponies. But then the more I listened and the more I heard, the more I have to disagree.

A friend....a Mini friend who has no Shetlands and has no interest in having Shetlands...told me today that she looks at this topic differently than she did awhile back. She said that she sure doesn't want to see this registry become another AMHA--and that is pretty much what would happen if the Mini people were to get the power to change things they want changed!

And I don't get this sudden push by the Mini people to have the ASPC/AMHR horses all go back to being only Shetland and not showing AMHR. They're Minis as much as any horse is a Mini, so why shouldn't the owners show them where they want to. Oh, I get where it's coming from--get rid of them so others can do more winning--but they've paid their money to AMHR just like the rest of you and that should get them something too. I suggest that if you want them taken out of AMHR then give them back all the money they've paid into it, or put that amount back into the Shetland part of it, that would help to upgrade Congress now that I think about it! Would that get the Mini tantrums to stop???


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## ~Lisa~

Well Frankly I will not be baited into another round.

Of course I want Congress to have a permanant home and be a great successful show all the way around and be financially sound. I will be showing their myself in 2011 and have a pony there with someone else showing as well.

I will simply say no one is wanting to take away from Congress asking for a show to break even before throwing thousands more into it is not taking it away or taking away from it.

If you think that trying to find a way to get more ponies to the shows local and National is harming the ponies then so be it.. I disagree. AS a show manager I can tell you a huge reason for not putting in all those pony classes locally is why do it for a couple of ponies. If even a portion of those ASPC/R horses showed ASPC a few shows that would make a huge difference.

I would love for Congress to be in one location so planning can happen and those that choose to go will go and those that dont' wont and the issue will be over.

But hey if class prices go up and stall prices go up and everyone is ok with that for a facility and more of whatever they want. More power to them but to hear the economy is bad they can not pay more but want more therefore others must pay for it- no matter who it comes from in any walk of life just doesnt seem like a responsible thing to do.


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## ponyrecruit

What has the attendence been for the Mini nationals in the past 10 years? Sorry new to the organization so I don't know the history.	Has it always been 1700 entries? Or did it start out with smaller numbers and grow? Was it always financially sound, breaking even or profit? Again, new to association, so I don't have the history.

I believe that if the association can treat Congress as a national caliber show - the numbers will grow. The Congress is for ASPC as well as ASPR and NSPR ponies. We need to offer all the classes - we should have the opportunity to have National Champions in the divisions that people are showing in a the local and regional levels.


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## Jacki Loomis

Just to add some perspective....

I love AMHR Nationals, well managed, great staff, wonderful facility, world class competition!!

I don't love having to be gone from home so many days - AMHR Nationals takes 10 days and that is a lot of time to be away from home, work, etc.. We seldom stay until Stake Day because it is so long which means most of our National Champion drivers do not show in their respective Stake class.

I don't love having all of the Amateur classes on only 2 days, makes for a very hectic schedule if you show very many drivers like we do. We often times leave drivers at home because the classes would be one right after the other which is not a fun way to show.

So...There are up and down sides to both shows.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]


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## OhHorsePee

Minimor said:


> I agree with Lewella. A National show should look like a National show! Quite frankly, from what bits & pieces of Congress I got to watch on the webcast this year, the show did look CHEAP. Up until this Congress I was all keen on someday getting to go & show my ponies at Congress. After seeing what I saw on the webcast....and then hearing some of the comments and complaints from people that were actually at the show in Ardmore....I now have absolutely no interest in attending.
> 
> So, you've got some people that are turned off by a show that appears cheap (and I know I'm not the only one!!) you've got other people that don't show because the classes they want to show in aren't even offered...and I guess the show isn't likely to prosper & grow!
> 
> And honestly I get tired of hearing about the poor, hard done by Miniatures having to support everything. Why don't you complain about the thousands that are wasted on some of the supposed promotional events? A mere fraction of what was spent on sending ponies to China would pay the expenses to upgrade Congress into a National caliber event that would do far more to promote ponies than the ponies to China thing did. Does that help the Miniatures? No, but neither did sending ponies to China!
> 
> Put Congress in a central location & keep it there, and maybe you would get more ponies and so more entry money. And sometimes you have to spend money to make money--that can be true of any business. But no, let's just keep denying the funding for Congress, keep complaining if it doesn't break even, and make no effort to upgrade the show into something that looks like a National show, because it's nice to be able to keep pointing fingers at Congress and the ponies and complaining that it's just a money pit.
> 
> And Lisa, you questioned on an earlier thread why I would say that the Mini people would cut Congress if they had the power to do so??? Listen to what some are saying. Listen to what you yourself are saying! The premise is there. I saw it before I got any ponies...when I was still just "a Mini person". Initially I thought the same as Renee, that "it's not fair" how this organization is run, take from the Minis to cater to the ponies. But then the more I listened and the more I heard, the more I have to disagree.
> 
> A friend....a Mini friend who has no Shetlands and has no interest in having Shetlands...told me today that she looks at this topic differently than she did awhile back. She said that she sure doesn't want to see this registry become another AMHA--and that is pretty much what would happen if the Mini people were to get the power to change things they want changed!
> 
> And I don't get this sudden push by the Mini people to have the ASPC/AMHR horses all go back to being only Shetland and not showing AMHR. They're Minis as much as any horse is a Mini, so why shouldn't the owners show them where they want to. Oh, I get where it's coming from--get rid of them so others can do more winning--but they've paid their money to AMHR just like the rest of you and that should get them something too. I suggest that if you want them taken out of AMHR then give them back all the money they've paid into it, or put that amount back into the Shetland part of it, that would help to upgrade Congress now that I think about it! Would that get the Mini tantrums to stop???







Absolutely! I agree 100% to yours and Lewella's posts!


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## LaVern

Lets see-- Little history as I remember. Nationals at Gordyville Il. Maybe- 1995 300 horses--not many classes, maybe three B's in a class. I remember there was two in get of sire. But, we didn't say "Oh I am not going to go if it is cheap or they don't have the classes I want." WE CAME.

Moved to Columbia Missouri. We were in heaven. We got TWO ladies bathrooms - sometimes one worked. Dirt floors- stall that flooded, but we kept coming, by the hundreds. And because of that they added more classes and we got some new decorations. That horse that hangs over up there is still part of our Missouri decorations. I can't remember how many years we were there, and maybe it was the dumps, but we were so glad to have a Nationals that we didn't feel it was cheap, even when the AMHA people made fun of us.

Finally we out grew Missouri and the hunt was on for a new facility,a committee was chosen and after much research they chose Tulsa. Many like myself were very worried, what happens if we can't pay for it? But, we did because we kept coming in bigger numbers.

Now the day may come when we can't afford Tulsa, well if that happens so be it. If we have to tighten our belts and dig into our own pockets we will and I will also bet that we will keep coming no matter where it is, how hot it is or how many classes there are. It is the AMHR miniature horse peoples mentality. We love our Nationals!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## disneyhorse

LaVern said:


> Lets see-- Little history as I remember. Nationals at Gordyville Il. Maybe- 1995 300 horses--not many classes, maybe three B's in a class. But, we didn't say "oh I am not going to go if it is cheap or they don't have the classes I want. WE CAME.
> 
> Moved to Columbia Missouri. We were in heaven. We got TWO ladies bathrooms - sometimes one worked. Dirt floors- stall that flooded, but we kept coming, by the hundreds. And because of that they added more classes and we got some new decorations. That horse that hangs over up there is still part of our Missouri decorations. I can't remember how many years we were there, and maybe it was the dumps, but we were so glad to have a Nationals that we didn't feel it was cheap, even when the AMHA people made fun of us.
> 
> Finally we out grew Missouri and the hunt was on for a new facility, and many like myself were very worried, what happens if we can't pay for it? But we did because we kept coming in bigger numbers.
> 
> Now the day may come when we can't afford Tulsa, well if that happens so be it. If we have to tighten our belts and dig into our own pockets we will and I will also bet that we will keep coming no matter where it is, how hot it is or how many classes there are. It is the AMHR miniature horse peoples mentality. We love our Nationals!!!!!!!!!!!!


I have to agree... the first Nationals I saw in person was in Columbia Missouri... pretty similar to what Congress is now. Only until Tulsa have I thought that AMHR Nationals is a top, top class event!

I don't think the Congress is cheap. Money makes the world go 'round. I don't think that Congress needs to be as giant as AMHR Nationals... it's a smaller show and I think it's a great show!

Andrea


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## Minimor

Of course it doesn't have to be giant like Nationals--IMO it isn't the size of the show that makes it Nationals caliber--i'ts the presentation of the ponies, the quality of the ponies, and the quality of the facility! And yes, it *does* deserve to have a nice facility--and an arena that people will say "IT WAS A GREAT ARENA" and nothing more. Notice this year--every single person that says "it was a lovely arena" has to finish that statement with the words COMPARED TO WHAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST. It would be nice to have it at a facility where that second set of words isn't required to qualify the first set of words!

Barns with ventilation, an arena that isn't made smaller to make room for a make up area for the halter horses, a gate that doesn't require the driving ponies to go down the main barn aisle to get into the ring. Bathrooms that aren't a health hazard (which I've been told they were by more than one exhibitor)--that alone is a big turnoff! Those are the things that people are talking about--and more than one person has told me they just aren't keen on going back to Ardmore for another Congress. A ring set up & webcasting that allows the ponies to show on the long side of the arena where maybe they can show off a bit of action instead of cramming them all into the short end of the arena & expecting them to do railwork on a surface that several have said wasn't level and which made it awkward to work your ponies on the rail. Those last things are some of what I saw on the webcast that made it appear to me to be less than a National quality show.


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## Belinda

I will only comment one time on this subject , as on another forum this topic has been shut totally down !!!!

I find it is ashamed that someone would judge a entire show by what they saw on a web cast .. The bathrooms were addressed the second day we were there and I had reports from folks that first reported them , that they were fine the rest of the week. That is all I can go on.. I know that the restrooms in the Main Arena were always nice and clean ..





I have contacted several facility's that have been mentioned by several that are first class arenas and two have NO DATES for Aug . or October !! for the next 5 years ..

I hope that we can all work together on finding a location for Congress once and for all. I truly believe that the members who show at Congress should be allowed to vote on this , just like we did for Mini Nationals .


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## muffntuf

Well Belinda, you should have walked through the other barns then. The bathrooms - Barn 7 - no shower curtain, dirty and no lock on the door. Only one shower stall.

Barn 8 - had a shower curtain, but no working light and heater that turned on at will. Nice sauna. And dirty - out of towels. If you took a shower - you might have been doing everything in the dark. One shower stall.

Barn 9 - no ventilation in the bathrooms. 2 stalls. NO SHOWER STALLS - we had to go to barn 7 or 8. Dirty, out of soap and hand towels constantly. The door on one of the stalls broke half way through the week and never got fixed. Someone put a small fan in it to circulate air.

SO 2 Shower stalls for everyone at Congress this year.

So whomever reported to you the bathrooms were fixed - maybe they were only talking about the main arena bathrooms? Cuz the other barns, were not taken care of. This is first hand experience speaking.

I watched Karen Shaw come up the aisle into the arena with a driving pony, with 2 headers and navigate the make up area into the arena. Tsk Tsk! But at least they had the foresight to tell everyone to move aside, Mark did a good job of announcing several times before the driving classes for people to clear that aisle way.

Also first hand - running the rail on the short end didn't bother me with the higher action ponies as far as the length went, it had plenty of length, what bothered me was the slant from the wall of the arena about a cart width into the arena center. That was fun. If you were doing rail work with foundation or classics, you were 6ft out and didn't notice the slant. I showed classic, MP and APSR, so that was first hand experience.

Other than that, the only other thing that was a take away from the arena was cutting the size down, but on the other hand, it did allow people to go from the make up area into the bleacher area from the arena floor. I did think it took away from the driving ponies. Hopefully we can fix the issue with the ponies seeing just feet by cheese clothing the rail all the way around and do something with the two vents that freaked so many ponies out too, if we should go back. Make sure Bill is looking at the arena floors well when the site selection committee goes around. If you don't drive or run ponies on the rail, you probably don't understand what we are talking about.

Was it the worst facility no - the crew members were visible during the day and fixed what they could when asked. They saved me on mare day running back and forth from Barn 9 a couple times by giving me rides. They were very helpful with a couple other things as well.

But I do think we can do better on facilities. It would be nice if the site committee pinned on the forums the sites they have looked into already and the reason why it was not on the short list.

As members, we can help look.


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## Minimor

Belinda--this is what I said about what I saw on the webcast:



> A ring set up & webcasting that allows the ponies to show on the long side of the arena where maybe they can show off a bit of action instead of cramming them all into the short end of the arena & expecting them to do railwork on a surface that several have said wasn't level and which made it awkward to work your ponies on the rail. Those last things are some of what I saw on the webcast that made it appear to me to be less than a National quality show.


The webcast is showing the ponies to the world, and IMO those ponies should be showing to their best advantage. As I have said on another thread on another board, I guess my expectations were just too high. I was expecting to see ponies that were showing some awesome action in their railwork. I know how we showed Morgans, and I know how the local guys show their hackneys--I was expecting to see something similar in the Shetlands. I know how well some of these ponies can move. I am not saying I didn't see some quality ponies; others I cannot comment on because it's hard to see them all at an ideal angle on the webcast. What I didn't see was action. Many of the ponies did not set up & show well at all. A few didn't behave. Others it looked like the handlers were very tentative, afraid that their ponies were going to misbehave, afraid to move them up a bit so that they could show how they can move. When I commented on this on another board, people offered the reasons/excuses about the arena surface not being level, and people walking past at eye level scaring the ponies off the rail, the fact that the ponies had to come from excessively hot barns into the cool arena & so they wanted to act silly when they cooled off--none of those things does anything at all to show the ponies off to their best advantage.

If I am going to haul ponies 20+ hours to a show, I expect to show in a facility that is at least as good as what we have to show in locally, especially when it is a National show! If it's just another local show, well, then that is different--not that I would haul 20 hours to just another local show, that's just not what I do. I can't. A National show is a goal, something you plan for, work toward, save money for and hire barn help for when I'm away to that show, I can't just do all that for multiple shows or just any show--and I have expectations for what it will be like when I arrive at that goal--the National show.

That's great if all the things that were wrong with the bathrooms & whatever else got fixed up in a day or two. Thing is, though, there are still people who were not happy with the facility even after those things go fixed. I wouldn't go to a restaurant if 10 of my friends told me that they'd tried the place and the food was crappy. Likewise I have no desire to make the effort to attend a horse show that multiple people tell me they were not impressed with, or rather is held at a facility that didn't impress them--for multiple reasons. It's just not worth my time, effort or money, and I have tot hink that I'm not the only one that feels that way. That's one reason you lose entries to other shows. People attend the shows that best suit them, and facilities and such play a part when people are deciding which shows suit them.

My point was--it isn't a great plan to say that until Congress grows & makes more money we cannot have a better/more expensive facility, better show schedule, different classes--because that in itself is self-limiting. There has to be something that will attract new people, or lure former exhibitors back from some other show that's on or close to the same dates.

Sorry I haven't yet had a chance to reply to my e-mails--have read them but am fighting with a new computer and modern programs & nothing is working the way it's supposed to, or the way that I know to try and make it work. I've been trying to send photos of some items I have for sale and now I think I have two programs fighting over how to file my photos & it's just not working. So, I haven't had a chance to answer messages!

Belinda, I in no way meant any disregard or lack of appreciation for the work that many put in to organize Congress this year. I do know how much work it is to organize a show, particularly a national level show and I definitely appreciate the people who do it. I just think those people would have an easier time of it in a better facility. I'm glad that the site selection committee is willing to look at other places for 2011, and I hope they will choose a good one that is a little more central and a little less hot.


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## LaVern

We didn't even get toilet paper in Columbia, we brought it from home. That was okay with us.


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## txminipinto

I'm only going to comment once on this topic as well since it has been beat to death on another forum. Ardmore was perfectly fine for Congress. The only huge issue was the lack of ventilation in the barns. That effected everyone's health and safety but everyone survived. I showed all halter horses and never had any trouble with the footing on the short side of the arena. We used the short side so that the camera man could get all of the horses on film. I wasn't hanging out in the bathrooms. Only used it when I needed to and took showers at my trailer. They were hot but I didn't stay in there long enough to dwell on it.

I was excited and happy to be at Congress as I am every year. I was really excited that it only took me 4.5 hours to get there compared to 18. Anyone can pick a facility apart if they look hard enough.

My suggestion: Rent Ardmore next year, and sign a contract for 5 years with Tulsa starting in 2012. We already have a relationship with that facility, we DON'T have to rent the large arena but instead the Pavillion which is just as nice, and you'd be hard pressed to find something seriously wrong with that facility. Concrete, open barns, plenty of wash racks and showers, A/C arena, grocery store/lowes across the street, beautiful RV park (attendants will even help you park your rig), and I could go on and on.

That's it. No more from me on this topic. And honestly, if you are going to tear Congress apart do the rest of us a favor and don't come.


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## ahrobertspony

I will answer this as someone who has been to a Congress or 2 ... or 30+ as the case may be....

I am not going to address these in any particular order, just as I think of the answers....

1) The Congress existed first. There have been 64 of them. Since some in the group are LONG TIME participants who do like some show aspects handled a certain way, getting them to change to another show's way is going to not be an overnight process ... especially for those who prefer to see things done in some of the more traditional society show type ways.

For example ... who can tell me ... why in many society breed shows .... stallions always show first????

Personally, I might not be opposed to waiting to tie grands later - Like closer to stake time. But, reality ... probably the Classic division would be more likely to go for that than the Modern division. It's a much different and simpler process to get a Miniature or Classic halter pony ready again than a Modern.

Many stables that are competitive in BOTH halter and driving might go for a championship morning closer to stakes. That might be exciting. And, it might keep folks around 'til the end of the show. There are many of us now who really feel like way more attention is given to halter. But, many of the major stables that do both halter AND driving really, really in-depth would probably will not want their championship classes that same evening right at the beginning of the driving session.

Think about who handles the majority of your AMHR halter champions ... and who handles a majority of your AMHR driving grand champions. You don't see THAT much cross over of handlers ... some ... but not alot. Same is true of Classics. Same is NOT as true for Moderns and ASPR.

Again, sometimes ... differences in the breeds do actually need to dictate some differences in how things happen.

As an aside ....watch long-time stables on halter mornings ... you aren't likely to see them standing around w/ their qualifying ponies the entire morning. That can keep a pony from being "fried". But, it still happens. So, perhaps this is something that could be addressed for a positive change. Just make sure EVERY division is represented in the decision making AND make sure someone who only does halter doesn't just make the decision because moving championships into the beginning of a performance session has a major impact when you are talking about getting a major halter contending Modern Stallion ready w/ tack & a tail right before you might have to have a young junior harness pony in the ring.

But ... I'd be all for a separate championship time frame ... as long as it didn't interfere w/ a driving time frame.

2) $1,000 Amateur Incentives...

These are NOT the province of R Nationals alone. The ASPC Congress has Amateur Gelding Incentives as well. The $1,000 incentive is the purse for every national level incentive class. I forget what it pays now to win although you think I'd know that since we've won the Modern Amateur incentive at Congress. Maybe $500. It was $250 to win at Congress or Nationals, but when we dumped the Amateur Mare incentive and put all the money into the Gelding incentive, it went up and paid a few more places. It used to pay four placings. Now ... I forget ... maybe it pays 8??? These are ASPC, Inc., programs ... even the one at AMHR Nationals. They are the same. The money is the same. The payouts are the same, just as the Amateur Gelding Incentives at the Area Shows are the same ... just for less money.

They just aren't listed the same way in the Congress premium. Doesn't mean they aren't exactly alike though.

3) Talk a a major youth stable or two who is also a contending open stable as well... a good many of us DO NOT WANT OUR CLASSES CRAMMED INTO A SCHEDULE LIKE THAT. We don't even really like it crammed into the two afternoons it's crammed into now. Many of us would prefer halter classes be held after their respective breed classes and our driving classes spread out a bit. If you ever tried to drive a Modern Youth Harness Pony and a Modern Youth Roadster Pony and an ASPR youth driver or two and a Classic youth driver or two in the same afternoon, you'd know why. It's pratically impossible.

Were Congress to move dates into the school year, yes ...we'd probably need to put the youth classes on a weekend. But, then someone who actually does ALL youth type classes and who actually knows something about driving would have to actually be involved in the setting of the schedule of youth classes. I only have two kids and help w/ a third. These types of schedules with a PONY SHOW are much tougher than the are with a MINI show. The animals aren't the same. You can't treat them the same.

4) Cooler time of the year ....

Absolutely. Most would be in favor of it, especially Modern folks whose ENTIRE show season is ONLY 6-8 weeks long. As I've pointed out on other forums, the ONLY reason the Congress is presently in late July/early August is simply because ... when the show was reunited in 1998 to kick of its second 50-year run ... that time frame was the ONLY time frame Gordyville Arena had open.

Congress was held the most often at a time frame covering late Aug & early September days.

Then, it was held the next most often in a time frame basically around the 2nd/3rd week of August.

It's only be at its present time frame 13 times.

I hate to body clip. But, I'd take a late September or early October date in a heart beat ... and would take my kids out of school ... and would even deal w/ youth classes being put in over a weekend as long as that schedule is vastly improved over the current youth nightmare, I mean youth schedule.

5) Stakes ....

I have to be honest. I forget which way it's done now. It used to be Congress and Nationals stakes were handled EXACTLY the same way... but I honestly forget whether the original plan was 1) the across the board thing of $375 OR 2)IF the original plan was done the way I think Congress stakes are funded now. I won't say because I forget. However, if it's like I THINK ... I'll take a Modern Road Stake w/ a simple 4 entries over a $375 AMHR Nationals stake any day of the week. And ... for those years that Modern competition is deep and there are 7 or 8 in a road stake .... I just have two words... KA CHING!

6) Trophies...

The basic winning trophies between the two national shows are the same. The most notable difference is that 2nds at R Nationals get silver. However, I think if you talk to Shetland Congress exhibitors, you'll probably see a divide as to whether the participants would want that reserve silver at Congress. The divide probably happens along the lines of newer Congress exhibitors versus longer-tenured Congress exhibitors and/or between those who are die-hard pony-only and those who do both Congress and Nationals. While we may not all see it that way, you have to remember the concept of a 2nd place ... I mean RESERVE ... win shot and victory pass is fewer than 10 years old at Congress. To this day, watch how many people do NOT take their reserve picture in the ring and do not stay for a reserve victory pass. Also, remember, silver is a society type trophy. For many of us, we'd rather have that piece of silver to win than a generic trophy. However, not everyone feels that way.

Until Congresses finances improve or there are more sponsors, the reserve trophy is probably not something that can be done ... especially since there are still those who see reserve as the "first place looser." Granted we might not all agree... but some of these folks are still adjusting to the reserve picture and victory pass. This is slow process we can work on if the show finances improve.

Now ... if we can just figure out about some donations. That is a great idea. Just like adding the webcast this year. These are things that can be worked out now that people are more attuned to it. But ... with that said ... don't forget just how many special awards in actual Classes Congress has.

I will probably think of more points when I am out doing chores or when I go back to work later. Will add them if I think of them. My caution would be this ... just because one show has a better written premium book, don't automatically jump to the wrong conclusions. Congress has the Incentives. And ... truth be told ... if it works like I think, I'll take the Congress payout method over a $375 stake as long as the entries are good.

AHR

PS ... you know, folks ARE fired up about Congress date & location. Fired up members are busy & involved members. As such, facility date, cost and availability info that some are pulling together is ... in some cases ... very, very, very, very interesting. Should make for an interesting convention for sure.


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## ahrobertspony

Oh ... and one more thing...

Am a HUGE fan of this year's webcast. KUDOS to the sponsors. Realistically, I do think there's a better than even chance the show will be back in Ardmore next year. Therefore, an improvement I'd like to see considered if the webcast is worked out again.... Please, please, please, please do not cram the Moderns into that teeny tiny rail for work. That was a pretty serious injustice to one division.

My other thing ... not everyone would rate the ring that great. Yes, it was large. But, it was also truncated slightly .... why... to accommodate HALTER animals. Also, of all the place I've shown, this is one of the more dangerous because of the size of the wall. Too much movement and sound happens RIGHT at head level of a driving horse. I scratched two driving entries for safety reasons. Also, as a driver ... I didn't care for the shoot.

Ardmore had some great things. Loved the webcast. Like the AC in the arena. Youth stuff was great. Loved the hospitality. I just would like driving to be given more of a fair consideration because Hardy Murphy probably doesn't even make my top 10 driving rings.

I wouldn't not go back to Hardy Murphy. I am a fan of Congress so I'll go wherever. But, if I have to limit my driving entries because a good driving ring isn't simply a big driving ring and if I limit my halter entries because the rail isn't sufficient, I don't have that many entries left to make.


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## OhHorsePee

It had been stated before that maybe the Site Selection Committee should pick two (2) facilities for us to vote on. I so hope that there is at least four (4) put out there as possible Congress sites. I still feel that in order to move ahead we need to think bigger. We need to think of exposure. We need to think of population. We need to think of a nice facility that can offer what we need to increase participation and marketing.


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## OhHorsePee

Zona gave an interview to this paper My link In this interview she states that last year (Cloverdale) there was 530 ponies that showed and over 1800 entries. I am glad we are getting some publicity!


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## ahrobertspony

I did think of something else.... HOSPITALITY!

First, I'd like to again say thanks to the Area V folks that had the hospitality set up near the ring. Having the water coolers right there was WONDERFUL. Also, thanks again to the Hinkles and Shaws for coordinating the carry-in. Good job to the group that hosted the aisle party one night; your efforts were much appreciated, too.

Congress is truly a living creature that has changed over the years. Like the info I noted on the stake payouts & the incentives, I also want to share that hospitality at the Congress isn't a brand new concept. Here are some various things that have happened over the years....

1) Exhibitors dinner sponsored by the show/registry

2) Water stations

3) Alumni reunions/luncheons

4) Coffee & donuts

5) Multiple 50th anniversary celebrations

6) Privately sponsored dinners for all exhibitors (like this year's aisle party but w/ fewer folks footing the bill)

Those are just some of the things that have come & gone that I know of since the late 70s. I can't speak to what might have come & gone in the first 40 Congresses. When you think of the things that happened this year AND consider the half dozen mentioned above, I think it's probably safe to assume that there was some sorts of hospitality in the first 40 years.

Many of these activities are all things that could be done again. As someone who has paid out thousands of dollars to feed all exhibitors at Congress over 6-8 years, I appreciate the Wed. night aisle party this year. I am glad someone else picked up that ball. It's great that when one thing ends, something new can begin.

I encourage groups to work together and do things like the hospitality area or the aisle party w/ food. It's great to see new folks take on past traditions. It's also helpful to spread around the costs and workload.

If you haven't made a contribution like that to the Congress, I would urge you to consider what you can do. If this is just your first or second, third, fourth or fifth Congress, welcome. Also, I would like to remind you not to assume that what you've seen or experienced in a brief portion of the show's history is how it ALWAYS is/has been.

Like I said ....Congress is a living, growing, changing and evolving entity. That wonderful webcast is a great example ... one that wouldn't have been possible just 10-12 years ago .... hence the need to constantly evolve. Youth stuff is another example. I can remember the VERY FIRST time youth activities were offered at Congress or Nationals. Hard to believe now it's been within the last 20 years! Again, positive growth and change.

Don't forget ... We can and all should make contributions toward the evolution at some course throughout the continuing history.


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## muffntuf

Like I said ....Congress is a living, growing, changing and evolving entity. That wonderful webcast is a great example ... one that wouldn't have been possible just 10-12 years ago .... hence the need to constantly evolve. Youth stuff is another example. I can remember the VERY FIRST time youth activities were offered at Congress or Nationals. Hard to believe now it's been within the last 20 years! Again, positive growth and change.

Yes Amy you are correct. Things like bathrooms and heat let off from the barns, if the HMC (Hardy Murphy Coliseum) BOD wants to fix them and make it so 300+ people can use them, shower in them and keep them maintained, then that part of Congress works. If the big barn, barn 9 had some way to ventilate all the excessive heat, that would be even better!

But if we don't recognize the basic facts of growth, planning, and change to support it, it won't evolve into everything it can be.

Stallion Avenue - great start

Webcast - wonderful new addition

Youth Roving Reporter - fabulous way to get behind the scenes and involve the youth even more

Barn parties - wouldn't it be fabulous if every night a different barn hosted something

and so much more!


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## LostInOz

Thanks Amy

that's the kind of reply I was looking for, not another re-hash of facilities or money

I wanted to know why the show program did not seem more exhibitor friendly and more attuned to a National Caliber show. You imply that it is the way the program is written more than anything, and I thank you for your explanations on a lot of the classes, as well as your thoughts on moving classes around.

I still would like to know who comprises the 'mystery committee' that puts together the show bill (and facilities?)

I agree, likely we will have Congress at Ardmore again, and I already said this year BEFORE I WENT, that it was my last Congress for awhile. But that doesn't mean I can't help to improve future shows.


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## muffntuf

Belinda Bagby was your committee head this year, Lea Dill and Jeannie Braganini also particpated. Lenard Davenport would maybe have had some say.


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## Belinda

muffntuf said:


> Belinda Bagby was your committee head this year, Lea Dill and Jeannie Braganini also particpated. Lenard Davenport would maybe have had some say.


Trace once again this is incorrect !! I was NOT chair of the committee .. Joe our Director of Finance was CHAIR OF the National Show and Congress Committee !! and the members were Zona, Belinda , Jeannie, Dolores, and Lea .. 

 

Lost In Oz , The class line up is generally done by the Show Manager.. He also has to try and work it to a few things that we require also , such as not having just one or two classes at the end of the day on Futurity day that requires us to bring out two more judges for just about 30 minutes and have to pay them a full day's wages.. 

 

 For those of you who don't know , ON Futurity day , The Modern Futurity picks one of the 3 judges that are hired to do Classics and the Classic /Foundation Futurity uses whoever the Modern folks hire for their Regular classes , So that leaves two judges sitting out a full day .. So we this year tried to arrange it so that they did not even fly in until the night before they were to judge , there for it required moving some classes and then it just goes on from there.. It is a very hard job to arrange classes to please everyone ., A job I am not sure I could ever do .. <<LOL>> 




 Ok this is proably more than some really wanted to 

 

know ..


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## muffntuf

So when you posted the original class list, are you saying you did not create it?


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## Belinda

muffntuf said:


> So when you posted the original class list, are you saying you did not create it?



Ok after this I am DONE WITH THIS SUBJECT. . Trace it does not matter what I say or how I say you question it or correct it , or just don't believe it , what ever the case,

*NEVER DID I SAY OR IMPLY THAT I ARRANGED THE CLASS LIST FOR CONGRESS OR NATIONALS. *


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## ~Lisa~

In years past whenever I had a question about the Class list for Nationals and when an award I was sponsoring would be given (what day the mares would show) I was always directed to the Show Manager not the office or anyone else??


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## ahrobertspony

Belinda makes a good point. There are some planning & financial considerations related to the officials to keep in mind regarding the Congress schedule. I think we have the Futurities and Incentives figured out from that perspective now. Perhaps we can find the other places in the schedule with those types of concerns and fix those as well in the future. I know there was at least one major gap for the Modern judge this year. He seemed to take it in stride and even put himself to work helping w/ awards and getting ears at the win backdrop at times! Like I said, Congress is a living thing so these are issues and items we can work on as time goes on. There can always be room for improvement and re-evaluation as we move forward.

The key to a good premium book is probably to start early! Also, it seems to me that the breed division committees used to be a little more involved in reviewing the book … although, I do assume at least the breed chairs may … or may be able to … give some input. Not sure about now, but I am sure they used to. With more time, each breed chair could run it past a few members of their committee for feedback but full committee review might prove too time-consuming. It might be helpful for someone just to proofread the premium in the future … when & if time permits. Maybe someone who knows the history stuff could look over parts like the awards. Maybe the finance department could review any included text about payouts or paybacks of any sort.

Any suggestions or comments from any of those groups/individuals could be presented to the official committee for review. Or comments could be given to the show manager if that is who is doing the schedule.

I also think it would be ideal if you had someone in each of the following categories review and offer suggestions… NOT make changes … but make comments for the committee to CONSIDER: 1) a major halter stable that shows in all divisions… 2) a parent whose kid/kids compete in ALL youth categories … 3) a rep from a stable who does a lot of performance … 4) someone who knows all about the performance in hand stuff. Also, we might be in lucky since someone on the board was judge this year; he might have a perspective to add if given the opportunity. Again, we could allow some of these groups to give comments … not make changes … but make comments so things can be CONSIDERED by the decision-making committee or the management going forward.

Perhaps some of this might work if the committee or management worked on the premium over the winter and we gave ourselves plenty of time??? It’s all just thoughts/suggestions. As I’ve said, we can keep working to grow and improve the event. I’m sure Congress is a different animal than it was in 1948. I know it’s vastly different from the first one I attended in 1978. Working together, we can make it even better going forward …. So how know what it might be like in 2028?


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## JWC sr.

You know looking at the posts again after having been involved in the topic on another site, my feelings are still the same. Listed below are my suggestions & thoughts:

1. The ardmore facility may not have been perfect,but it was a far cry better than gordyville. Which is a good thing. You could not have asked for a better facility staff that jumped anytime someone needed something. They wanted us there which is also an improvement over the previous few years. Yes more ventilation, showers etc would have been nice but we all survived and it was a fun show.

2. Shetlands deserve a permanet home, somewhere in the central part of the country and with room for the show to grow.

3. The facility needs to be world class and have the amenities that go with that type venue.

4. Dates that have historically been used for Congress may have to be altered to get in with a world class facility, but there again the Shetland breed deserves a chance to be all they can be.

5. Web Casting was a great thing and I was glad to have helped sponsor it and would again if ask to. The amount of exporsure shetlands got, even within our own registry (AMHR/ASPC) will only help to grow the breed. We need this to bring us into the world wide web picture.

6. The cost of the facility is more than likely going to increase and therefore the cost to us exhibitors. I personally am okay with increasing the costs to the levels of the R national show as long as we can put Congress in a place befitting a National, world class show!!

7. Having the youth classes on days encompassing a weekend is a good thing for the kids as the miss less school and even if it means we are rushed with the grandkids, we are willing sacrifice a little breathing room for the kids ability to attend as versus not being able to attend due to school constraints. Just FYI 6 of our 10 grandkids show!!

Bottom line is that in my opinion the Okalahoma club, the selection committee, the area five people all did a much improved job of putting on the show. I appreciate their efforts immensely.

Now lets all decide at convention this year to have Ardmore one more year and in the meantime find a facility for Congress, such as Tulsa is for Nationals a permanet home, with great facilities and an overall venue we can all be proud of.

If the BOD is going to make the decision, I am okay with that and intend to write my BOD members and the EC what my suggestions are. If they decide to let us all vote on it, that is even better if they will give multiple facilities and date options to go along with the options. There a lot of things that go into picking a site other than location, dates and price. Those are important factors, but there are others that have more long term and profound effects on everyone even those that choose not to ever show!!

I sincerely encourage folks to think about changes that are needed, suggestions you may have and things you are willing to pay for. Then send it in writing to the BOD and EC for consideration. They have sheparded us as a registry into building one of the nicest National shows in the country with our R Nationals. Given the support and direction of the membership I trust they can do it again with Congress. My sincere advice to them is summed up with the following saying. "Build It and the World will come" Congress 2011 "The Start of Something Wonderful For Everyone"


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## LaVern

The topic was why is Congress so different than Nationals. Well- we came and then they built it, no one was handing out money to go to Tulsa if we couldn't pay for it. I hope we are in the black this year.

I am going to edit this because I got to thinking that I sound so stingy and mean. I guess I am stingy. However it just seems like to have a show the caliber of Nationals provided for you, those taking advantage of it should at least have to support other local shows too. And I am sure that many do, but I think that it should be mandatory for horses to support local shows and qualify their horses in order to get there. Everyone says well if they had to qualify the numbers would even be lower. Well if that is true, that tells me something.


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## Lmequine

I think that every year at Convention there is talk of making Shetland Congress a qualifying show. I know in the past (say ten years ago) there were not enough areas even offering ASPC classes for qualifying to be possible. Times have changed though with more and more clubs now offering ASPC classes so I feel like the qualifying issue will come up again and may have a better chance of passing. That said I did haul a pony that was recently purchased to Congress and that was his first show, his owners chose to put him in three classes. If he would have had to have been qualified then that would have been one less pony and three less class entries for Congress.

Like John I do believe that if Congress was to find a permanent home that it would grow. As a member of the classic sweepstakes committee we are finding that some stallion owners are reluctant to place their stallions in the program because they do not know where Congress is going to be held two years from now (which would be where their foals would show for money). Before long it becomes a cycle, less people attend Congress because they cannot plan well in advance for it, less people support programs that show at Congress (like the Classic Sweepstakes) and the Congress continues to be a less than National "wow" level show.

I will be attending my third AMHR National show this year and it is different than Shetland Congress. It is like a normal National level show. I do very much enjoy Shetland Congress for its atmosphere which is more "homey", for lack of a better way to describe it. People seem to be friendlier at Congress and the show in general is more "laid back". I would not like to lose that "feel" but I would certainly like to have a National level venue.


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## LaVern

Perhaps, I should go to Congress before I keep shooting off my mouth.


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## txminipinto

LaVern said:


> Perhaps, I should go to Congress before I keep shooting off my mouth.


LaVern, I fear that if you attend Congress you just might get interested in Shetlands!



I've never met anyone who's been to Congress and confirmed to themselves that they didn't want them.


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## muffntuf

Leah very well put! It is the Homey feel that I love about Congress - but one thing I know, the more you go, the more people you know, the more fun it is. Even with the blasted heat this year, I still laughed, cried and had some good talking time with my pony friends. It was harder to keep that continuity of homey feeling this year, but by the time the barn party hit, I felt much better about that.


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## Jacki Loomis

txminipinto said:


> LaVern, I fear that if you attend Congress you just might get interested in Shetlands!
> 
> 
> 
> I've never met anyone who's been to Congress and confirmed to themselves that they didn't want them.



LaVern and all,

We did attend Congress a few years back in Gordyville, it was at a time when we were seriously thinking about showing some of our double registered horses/ponies as Shetlands and we were building a small string of Shetland only driving horses. We were so "not impressed" that we have not been back in the Shetland showring since! My Shetland show harness, two pleasure carts and pony viceroy have not been out of storage since then.

I understand that the facility has changed but our unimpressive experience has stuck with us. Nothing has happended in the breed yet to make us reexamine our position or get enthusiastic about it again. A nice, permanent location, could go along way towards getting people like us to give Congress another try which would bring ponies back to the Shetland showring.

I think the association would benefit from making significant changes now to take advantage of the AMHR people who for the first time now have horses/ponies registered as Shetlands also, when they come to Congress they expect something like AMHR Nationals. I fear if they don't take advantage of the current climate the opportunity will be missed and not present it's self again.

I wish Congress and the Shetlands all the best, am not opposed to spending association money to get it up to the next level, but without ponies being shown on the local level I'm not terribly optimistic.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]


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## txminipinto

Jacki Loomis said:


> LaVern and all,
> 
> We did attend Congress a few years back in Gordyville, it was at a time when we were seriously thinking about showing some of our double registered horses/ponies as Shetlands and we were building a small string of Shetland only driving horses. We were so "not impressed" that we have not been back in the Shetland showring since! My Shetland show harness, two pleasure carts and pony viceroy have not been out of storage since then.
> 
> I understand that the facility has changed but our unimpressive experience has stuck with us. Nothing has happended in the breed yet to make us reexamine our position or get enthusiastic about it again. A nice, permanent location, could go along way towards getting people like us to give Congress another try which would bring ponies back to the Shetland showring.
> 
> I think the association would benefit from making significant changes now to take advantage of the AMHR people who for the first time now have horses/ponies registered as Shetlands also, when they come to Congress they expect something like AMHR Nationals. I fear if they don't take advantage of the current climate the opportunity will be missed and not present it's self again.
> 
> I wish Congress and the Shetlands all the best, am not opposed to spending association money to get it up to the next level, but without ponies being shown on the local level I'm not terribly optimistic.
> 
> Jacki Loomis
> 
> [email protected]



Jacki I am sorry to hear that. But most people who get into shetlands do not do so due to the level of our national show but for the love of the pony. While I would love Congress to be more in line with Nationals, that's not why I love the shetland.


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## Jacki Loomis

txminipinto said:


> Jacki I am sorry to hear that. But most people who get into shetlands do not do so due to the level of our national show but for the love of the pony. While I would love Congress to be more in line with Nationals, that's not why I love the shetland.


Carin,

You may be right that "most people who get into shetlands do not do so due to the level of our national show". But, those of us who are AMHR National & Local Show exhibitors may be a unique subset. Unique and important because we already know the association, many of the people, and are proven spenders of dollars on shows and animals. I feel like we are a built in customer base that ASPC and Congress could really benefit from. A little catering to this subset could do great things for the Shetland pony breed and ASPC and I think there are ways to do this without alienating the traditional Shetland exhibitor.

I wish Congress and ASPC well and hope they can attract and keep many of us AMHR exhibitors to the Shetland breed now that the ranks of us with horses/ponies that hold ASPC and AMHR papers is growing. In business you only get one chance to gain a customer, I hope they don't miss this chance.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]


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## JWC sr.

Jackie,

I agree with you that there is a natural group of folks that have done mini's for years, that can and will be attracted to them initially because of the horses and then if they attend or get to see a world class show such as Nationals is will become pony owners.

Personally we have been in miniatures since 1982 and never were interested in Shetlands. But I fell in love with one "Rhythm" and bought her at a sale here in Texas several years ago. Then we went to congress just to watch, fell in love all over again and started buying Shetlands, we now have 9.

It is a natural market and one that thru web casting, a world class show with awards and futurities etc to match, is one that can be dramatically expanded in a very short period of time.

Put the Congress permanently in a central part of the country, promote the daylights out of it, expose as many people as you can both in the mini ranks and other breeds thru web casting and advertising, we will be part of having another Nationals on our hands with all that goes with it.

IMHO any way!!!


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## ruffian

Shetlands are beautiful ponies that have tremendous talent and ability. BUT if the local clubs cannot count on the ponies attending and supporting the local shows, then how can ASPC/AMHR justify spending money raised by AMHR on upgrading the Congress? Many shows in my area have completely dropped the ASPC classes because no ponies were showing. . I went to one show this summer that had over 100 minis and 7 ponies. Folks need to show locally to raise awareness and popularity. One show last year had 1 pony. Just one. the clubs cannot afford to provide ribbons/trophies and have no ponies show up.

It's basic accounting for any large business. Each department must handle the finances in a fiscally responsible manner. Taking from AMHR to pay for ASPC is robbing Peter to pay Paul. The size of the ribbons, or the fact that it's a neck ribbon versus a trophy or straight ribbon doesn't "make" the show for me. It's the fact that the best of the best are competing, and if I get to place at all, it's a thrill.


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## JWC sr.

I agree a show for us is also guaged by the competition that is at the show and how we stacked up against that competition. It is indeed a hollow victory to win a division when there is no real competition.





But with that said lets take one step at a time in my opinion, while I would love to see the same qualification process for the Shetlands as with the mini's put into effect. This thread was about how to make Congress a viable show that grows and is a world class show.





So with that said I still believe the points I made earlier are viable:

*1. The ardmore facility may not have been perfect,but it was a far cry better than gordyville. Which is a good thing. You could not have asked for a better facility staff that jumped anytime someone needed something. They wanted us there which is also an improvement over the previous few years. Yes more ventilation, showers etc would have been nice but we all survived and it was a fun show.*

* *

*2. Shetlands deserve a permanet home, somewhere in the central part of the country and with room for the show to grow.*

* *

*3. The facility needs to be world class and have the amenities that go with that type venue. *

* *

*4. Dates that have historically been used for Congress may have to be altered to get in with a world class facility, but there again the Shetland breed deserves a chance to be all they can be.*

* *

*5. Web Casting was a great thing and I was glad to have helped sponsor it and would again if ask to. The amount of exporsure shetlands got, even within our own registry (AMHR/ASPC) will only help to grow the breed. We need this to bring us into the world wide web picture.*

* *

*6. The cost of the facility is more than likely going to increase and therefore the cost to us exhibitors. I personally am okay with increasing the costs to the levels of the R national show as long as we can put Congress in a place befitting a National, world class show!!*

* *

*7. Having the youth classes on days encompassing a weekend is a good thing for the kids as the miss less school and even if it means we are rushed with the grandkids, we are willing sacrifice a little breathing room for the kids ability to attend as versus not being able to attend due to school constraints. Just FYI 6 of our 10 grandkids show!!*

* *

*Bottom line is that in my opinion the Okalahoma club, the selection committee, the area five people all did a much improved job of putting on the show. I appreciate their efforts immensely. *

* *

*Now lets all decide at convention this year to have Ardmore one more year and in the meantime find a facility for Congress, such as Tulsa is for Nationals a permanet home, with great facilities and an overall venue we can all be proud of. *

* *

*If the BOD is going to make the decision, I am okay with that and intend to write my BOD members and the EC what my suggestions are. If they decide to let us all vote on it, that is even better if they will give multiple facilities and date options to go along with the options. There a lot of things that go into picking a site other than location, dates and price. Those are important factors, but there are others that have more long term and profound effects on everyone even those that choose not to ever show!! *

Then for next years convention I would suggest that we propose and hopefully pass a qualification requirement package thta is appropriate!


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## LaVern

I agree Ruffian.

I think I have posted this before and taken a beating, but as much as I would hate to see it happen personally, I think there will come a day that Nationals and Congress will have to be combined. Financially it only makes sense. A facility Like Tulsa could handle it I think. Sure there would have to be give and take, but I think it could be done. Using more that one ring- different classes going on at the same time, stuff like that. And of course there is the problem for some, in deciding if you have a pony or a horse.

Also about the qualifying. I think that if pony folks had to show at more local and state fair to qualify for Congress it would get the Shetlands out for the public to see it would promote them positively. Most people,except for those that go to Congress, don't have a clue what todays Shetland Ponies look like.


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## Minimor

> The size of the ribbons, or the fact that it's a neck ribbon versus a trophy or straight ribbon doesn't "make" the show for me. It's the fact that the best of the best are competing, and if I get to place at all, it's a thrill.


For starters, I don't think it's really anything so much to do with the size of the ribbons...LaVern, Mini nationals didn't have a problem with 2 or whatever it was you said bathrooms and "bring your own toilet paper" but what if one of those two bathrooms was dirty/overflowing "health hazard" type of thing and the show is likely to be once again held in a facility that has some people saying they won't go back as long as it is there (for a multitude of reasons). If you go to see the show & facility for yourself, perhaps take along your own toilet to go with that toilet paper?
So, from 530 entries in 2009 to 407 entries (that is the number that measured in for 2010 Congress I am told)...some of those 407 entries won't be back in 2011 if the show is in Ardmore, others won't be back regardless because of other plans owners have made for 2011...sure, maybe some extra people will decide to show in 2011 to boost numbers, but others won't 'pony up' and go there to show because of what they saw/heard this year, and it doesn't seem likely the show is going to grow--and that's really too bad. I see it as kind of a chicken/egg question--which came first, the poor turnout or the poor facility??

The best thing I've heard about Ardmore is "it's better than what they had in previous years". Maybe so, but from what everyone says, that really isn't saying very much at all!

Surely to goodness there is an affordable facility that is clean and has ventilated barns so the ponies can be comfortable even when they aren't showing?? Many arenas aren't as big as the one in Ardmore, but I'm quite sure people won't complain that an arena is too small if they aren't displeased with the facility in general! When people are unhappy with something they will complain about every single thing there is to complain about, just to add weight to their main complaint! Rather than selling them on some HUGE arena that then gets cut down to make space for other things, give them an arena that is an honest 85x200 (or whatever, 100x200 if you prefer) and they will be happy with the arena size!


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## LaVern

I have to respond to the statement about so many miniature people getting into the Shetlands. And it is true. However you can see where a few of us old AMHR die hards harbor some old grudges.

Some of the miniature people and a lot of the miniature trainers that have come over, are old AMHA people-- the same AMHA people that did nothing but belittle our Straight AMHR horses and laugh at our little Nationals. But we plugged along. Now they want nicer facilities and more stuff for their Shetlands and who is supposed to pay for it? Guess Just another one of my hang ups.


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## horsefeather

Oh, I know better than post this, but I must! I whole heartly agree with LaVern! We have both minis and shetlands, but I guess I'm a die hard miniature person. And I, for one, would absolutely HATE to have to share OUR Miniature Nationals with the shetlands. OK, said enough.

Pam


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## JMS Miniatures

horsefeather said:


> Oh, I know better than post this, but I must! I whole heartly agree with LaVern! We have both minis and shetlands, but I guess I'm a die hard miniature person. And I, for one, would absolutely HATE to have to share OUR Miniature Nationals with the shetlands. OK, said enough.
> 
> Pam


I also totally agree. I think if that ever happens they need to make it where if you are AMHR/ASPC you can only choose 1 event Nationals or Congress, can't do both. Guess who would loose out on that end, Congress.

Once again I like the ponies, I have nothing against them. It has been said you need a pernament home for Congress and preferably central. You can't have it just nice as the facilities at Tulsa, there is just no way but Congress does deserve a calibar arena.

I would be curious to know if people would be actually willing to show their ponies at local shows to get qualified. Atleast for 1 show.

The awards need to be the same type as you would receive at Nationals. I totally agree with that. However when you talk about facilities its just hard to see Congress getting as nice as facilities as Nationals when you only have 500 ponies vs 1500 miniatures.

I had a pony shown at Congress when it was held in St. Louis. To me it felt like a large regional show for shetland ponies. It was kind of depressing.

I think Congress has alot more room to grow and somebody just needs to take incitive. Get the word out. This years webcast I'm sure helped alot. I only knew about it on Facebook. I did not see AMHR/ASPC advertise for it, and it did not help that the Journal was late and all ASPC coverage wasn't before hand. I didn't even remeber when Congress took place without the help of Facebook. Thats your problem, no word of mouth especially from the registry itself.


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## JWC sr.

Minimor, not sure where you got your numbers from as far as the attendance at the Ardmore Congress, but the numbers are somewhere between 450 and 500, which is not a bad turn out with the economy like it is, Parnell and one other large group not making it at the last minute etc etc. in my opinion. Heck even R Nationals was down last year!





But with that said it is a long way from where it needs to be.

Wherever it is decided to be held, we will be there next year and hopefully for years to come. Even if they decided to combine the two national shows we would go and participate. Not something I really want to see, but it will be what it will be.





As for as the old grudges to-wards the A trainers, breeders etc., I am very aware of those feelings and have had them myself having come from R originally and then moving into A for 11 or 12 years and having that personal experience ourselves that was not fun. But we persevered and kept breeding the horses we liked and it has all worked out just fine.





There is always some of that that lingers I guess, but in the same breath I personally want what is best for these small equine we have devoted so much of our life to and have decided to personally give it a rest for that end. The same goes for theShetland breed, we are new to the breed with only 3 years and 9 shetlands right now, whatever is best for the breed long term is exactly where i am going to be coming from!!!


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## Minimor

See, I guess we agree on one thing, cuz I would absolutely hate to have to spend 10 days at Nationals in order to show my ponies at Congress. As much as I love my Minis I have absolutely no interest in being at Nationals. I think it would be a bad idea to combine the two shows--and not because some owners would have to chose either one or the other to show their double registered horses in.

John, I was told 438 if you count the scratched entries....407 that actually measured in. <shrugs> I was told there are those who will argue that.

edited to add: if you check the show results page, it shows 438 entries for Congress. I think if you count the entries that are actually listed...which I assume are those actually measured in...the number comes up as 407. I was going to double check that, but the page isn't opening for me tonight. I'll have my better computer back tomorrow so I might be able to open it then, or maybe tonight if there's less traffic on the site it will work on this one. I presume that 438 includes Larry's ponies & those of whomever else had entered & then didn't get there to show...407 without them.

So yes, definitely entries were well down for 2010 compared to 2009, even if you go with the number entered as opposed to the number measured in for 2010. It's a long way from 500!


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## JWC sr.

Minimor,

We have agreed and disagreed on a number of things in the past and I am sure will again in the future.





I bet we can agree on this also, I enjoyed Congress, getting to see everyone was a blast. I am already working towards next year, where ever it is held!!





We had a good show to say the least. Further, A day spent with horse people is a much better day than one without spent without them!!! LOL


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## ~Lisa~

John I agree!!

I can not wait until this issue is decided and done with so everyone can move on. I hope it is done by the time Convention is over. There is so much more ASPC has to put attention to so I for one will be glad when this "turf war" is over


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## LostInOz

Instead of complaint after complaint - there is nothing wrong with complaining, it is how we get things to change; HOWEVER it would be nice for everyone to add a POSITIVE, POSSIBLE solution along with your complaint!

I complain that the schedule needs some tweaking - Who is on the committee? How can I get on the committee? What classes would we like to see? Amy had a good idea that each committee (Modern, Classic, etc) should review the final class list and put in SUGGESTIONS. If this happens it needs done in JANUARY - not June, to allow time for changes, IF ANY, to occur.

Someone mentioned Local Shows adding pony classes. Hello? If no ponies show up they are not out any "extra ribbons". That's a pretty weak excuse and to me, shows me that the mentality is that you do NOT want ponys to show. The ribbons should be the same for mini or pony classes and if your show manager is smart, they aren't putting dates on the ribbons anyway, so they can be re-used. I know one show manager doesn't use ribbons at all but gives out certificates you can use at the vendors (tack or food) or trade them in at the office for $$ off your bill OR a ribbon if you really want one.	Keep the pony classes in there - encourage them to come! It doesn't cost anything more.

My local PtHA won't offer pony/mini classes. They are missing the boat there too. I look upon it as they don't want us "pony people" so they won't get my money. My local PtHA is also struggling to remain solvent. If you don't open your brain to new ideas you will eventually have NO ASSOCIATION people! Like any business the business HAS TO CHANGE to current market conditions to survive.

I don't think "the Shetland people" are asking the association for more money. They are asking for more QUALITY in what we are getting. It may take more money to get there, but IF you use the right people, and go about it the right way, it can be done. I'm saying maybe we need to look at Mini Nationals and see where we can copy and use some of the same ideas to improve Congress.

I'm sure Nationals did not start out with 1000+ entries!! How did it start? How did it build up to where it is today?	Was it "build it and they will come" ? or did you have to have 1000 entries before you ever offered any nice awards or facilities? Somehow I think it was the former rather than the latter.

Some POSITIVE suggestions and Ideas people. This isn't a Shetland vs. Mini thread!


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## disneyhorse

LostInOz said:


> I'm sure Nationals did not start out with 1000+ entries!! How did it start? How did it build up to where it is today?	Was it "build it and they will come" ? or did you have to have 1000 entries before you ever offered any nice awards or facilities? Somehow I think it was the former rather than the latter.


I am pretty sure Nationals did not start out as big as it is today... but I have only been to the Nationals for just over ten years. My first Nationals was Columbia, Missouri. I think it was the last year they held it there. They had definitely grown out of that facility, too many horses... the temporary stalls were pretty bad I remember it had rained and the tents (yes, I am pretty sure they were tents!) over the temp stalls were not the greatest... so it was not a case of "build it and they will come." I don't think you should overdo things in hopes that you will someday meet those dreams, that's just not good business sense... but I don't see why Congress is that big of an issue in the first place... there are plenty of positives and EvERYTHING always has opportunities for improvement.

Andrea


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## JWC sr.

You know it is a blend of a number of different things that keep this Congress issue always in flux, there are those that say "hey this is the way we have always done it and we don't want to change" and there are those that say "The Shetland world is changing and we as a registry need to change and expand everything to do with the Shetland breed".





Personally I understand and can appreciate both sides of the equation and agree with lot of points both sides have come up with.





So in the future I think it is going to take a concerted effort by the BOD to pay attention to both sides and ease into a transition period where we blend the needs of both groups for the betterment of the breed itself.





Neither side is going to get everything they want, but all will benefit from a fiscally responsible, aggressive, responsive to the needs of today's equine owner new and old alike, long and short range plan for the breed. We all as breeders, owners, judges, trainers and just stewart's of the breed owe that to the breed and the registry in my opinion.


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