# Sick of hearing that people are being foreclosed on



## Basketmiss (Feb 1, 2008)

They keep showing how the economy is in sad shape, that people are losing their homes that they had got a loan thru Countrywide with..

Hello it isnt Countrywides fault that you cant or dont pay your mortgage!

I mean if you cant afford a $1500 mortage then dont get a loan for a home with that much of a payment.

You should know what you can afford, compared to what you have been paying and your income, etc.

It is another excuse because everyone spends, spends, spends on crap they dont need then say I cant pay my bills!

Hello your bills should come first..

You cant just live beyond your means and then go oh poor me when somethsing bad happens!

Then they say I cant afford my horses so I'm not gonna feed them or just put them down!!

I guess I want people to take responsibility for their actions!!

Stop making excuses and quit trying to impress the Jones' with all your stuff that you cant really afford anyway and that includes that house!

We have 2 sets of friends that built /bought Huge houses and have HUGE mortages but they are never home! They are always gone.

So whats the point in having that HUGE house- to try to impress someone..

It just gets on my last nerve..

Sorry for the rant!! Just had to get it off my chest cause it is all I hear nowadays!!


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## kaykay (Feb 1, 2008)

I understand your frustration but here is why people are blaming Countrywide. Countrywide made loans to people they KNEW could not repay them. These were sub prime loans. (meaning these people had horrible credit ratings)

So countrywide made them the loan for really low interest for 2 years and then the rate would go up drastically. But to calm peoples fears they assured them they could refinance to a fixed 30 year rate after the 2 years. WRONG. Unfortunately housing went flat and homes decreased in value. So now these people could not refinance because their house now isnt worth what they paid.

Especially bad was Countrywide was the leader in making 100 and sometimes 110 percent loans meaning they required no down payment. So these people have no equity in their home!

I do believe people have to take responsibility for their part but so does Countrywide. Their chief guy Of Countrywide walked away with MILLIONS when he stepped down. He as been asked to donate some of that to people in the foreclosure crisis.

Most of these people are now faced with making huge payments on a home that is no longer near worth the loan balance or walking away.

Im hoping the Presidents stay on arm rates will help but im not sure


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## Charley (Feb 1, 2008)

You are right. People should not buy if they can't afford. Period. They are responsible.

The lending institutions are wrong also for the practices that they went to get these people what they wanted.

Do you know some people got cash out of these deals also? ...Like with second mortgages even when they couldn't afford the first mortgage. It is mind boggling.


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## sphynx~n~minis (Feb 1, 2008)

What you don't see or hear, to much about is these loans were done with no proof of income. So you have your loan and then all of a suddend it gets in creased by $300.00 or $400.00 dollars because they didn't estimate the taxes correctly or whatever there excuse is. My daughter just lost her house to forclosure and she was able to pay the morgage until it increased by $300.00 dollars a month. So you have a collage student getting a morgage for $1200.00 (And yes she could afford that) and then 6 months to a year later it is increased to $1500.00 because there is not enough in there for the taxes on the property. I am sure that every loan is different but there are may that are going thru the same experiance as my daughter.

And yes if the bank is giving loans on no proof of income I think they are at lease 1/2 to blame.


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## Charley (Feb 1, 2008)

Seems like anyone could find another $300 a month. A second job would do that over a month at $8 an hour is only about 50 hours taking in for taxes and only 12 more hours a week....waitressing on weekends... cutting back on non necessities like air conditioning, cell phones, internet, cable tv.


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## backwoodsnanny (Feb 1, 2008)

I cant imagine that the people who got these loans didnt know that their credit was very bad to start with. It is this credit prone society that caused this problem. Not that the company was right in loaning people money that they knew the borrowers couldnt pay back but the borrowers had responsibility too. When I think of my parents who never bought anything they couldnt pay for I am guilty too. I have borrowed money for things though have always been able to pay the bills but if I lived like they did I wouldnt buy something until I could pay cash. Even their cars and trucks were saved for.

Their house well,that was my grandfathers before it was theirs and his fathers before that. I feel pretty good that we have no mortgage and only have less than $10,000 owed total and $5000 of that is "horses" lol. But do feel sorry for the people who bought at very high prices and now cant get their money back.


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## Boinky (Feb 1, 2008)

i feel really really bad for some people because there are MANY familys/people that are losing homes to forclosure that did NOT do this type of deal. HOWEVER what gets me are the people i keep hearing about that got huge loans for EXPENSIVE houses to resell then when the bottom fell out of the market they couldnt' afford it.. well how the heck could they afford it to begin with? I mean i can't imagine houses were selling THAT fast that you could make those payments ect. i do feel terrible for the familys that are being hit very hard by the economy and ARE losing their homes and other valued possessions. I feel less bad for those that made a very poor "business" decision and got caught with their pants down because they never should have attempted it to begin with.


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## Sandy S. (Feb 1, 2008)

The American Dream is to own your own home. The mortgage companies were wrong in lending to people that really could not afford what they were buying. The buyers were wrong for taking advantage of this, knowing that yes it was fullfilling their dream but at what expense, they didn't look down the road when that Mortgage was going to increase along with every thing else increasing. Use to it was only 1 1/2 times your income for the year was what you could afford for a home. So if you total 60,000 a year you could afford a 90,000 home, even that to me is stretching it.

But now I thing they have upped it to 2 or 2 1/2 times.

I blame the mortgage companies the most but I still blame the people too. My ex daughter-in-law did this. Bought a home that was way above what they could afford and lost it only after 12 months. No money down and variable. But they also bought during this time Alpaca's, goats, Registered Great Pyrnees, all of these I know the prices of and they were expensive. They all have cell phones, She and her new hubby go out to fancy dinners all the time. So I have to stop and think, if these things had not been bought and they cut back could they have made it?

Some things people consider necessities anymore, you can live without. Computer on line service, cable or satellite like dish TV, Cell phones if you have a home phone, leave out going out to dinner or going to the movies. If you can't afford your mortgage don't buy animals. Leave out the beer and cigarettes. Turn down your thermostats.

I know that a lot of people have cut out what they can and still can't make it and at least they tried, these people I do feel sorry for, getting caught up in the American Dream.


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## Buckskin gal (Feb 1, 2008)

Seems like too many people live like the government. Borrow, borrow, borrow and the heck with saving. Our government does not encourage people to save because then the big business aren't making money. Use those credit cards, buy those big homes, etc. and then people suffer. Yes the people should know better but it seems too many are living for the day and not planning for the future. Get it today and pay for it tomorrow seems to be the way it goes. Now look at what the government is doing...borrowing money so they can give it to the citizens to SPEND. !!!! Each one of us, if we cash those checks, should put it into savings for the future for it may be needed it at a later time. I too believe in saving for what we get rather than get something for the day on credit and worry later about paying for it. It really is a good feeling to actually own what we have. Years back banks and loan companies were much more careful of who they loaned money to. Proof was needed that an income could support the payments but that has changed by greediness of the banks and loan companies. Our economy here in Montana is still good but we usually are slower in getting hit. Many new homes are still being built. I do feel for those who are losing their homes ....a very hard lesson in life of how not to do something. JMHO


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## Brandi* (Feb 1, 2008)

.....


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## stormy (Feb 1, 2008)

Yes some people are losing their houses because of stupid decisions but many are losing them not for poor choices but because of the impact of an economy changing shape too fast!

Over 400,000 people have outright lost their jobs in Michigan in the last couple years, no new jobs to be had, all those houses on the market yet they must move and find a new place to live often without being able to sell the house they currently own.

When I bought my house and set my mortgage propane cost me $40 a month, gas for my car to drive to work $10 a week, insurance for my home and vehicle $84 a month...that was 16 yrs ago. Now propane is over $120 amonth, gas over $45 a week, insurance $225 a month and I am sure these numbers are very low to those who have families....did my income increase 300%, not! How could I have planned for that? I am fortunate, I am making it, others can not.

Yes people need to be held responsible for poor choices but many need help desperately for ligitamate reasons!

(Just as many horses are being dumped on the market not because their owners don't love them and want the best for them but because they are in desperate situations and taking desperate action!)

Man we are a hard and heartless lot on this board lately!


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## Boinky (Feb 1, 2008)

i agree.. the cost of living in general is going up, but the price we are getting paid is NOT. they keep screaming recession but i highly suspect we are spiraling towards actual depression! Your also right in that many many people are losing jobs and just aren't able to find more. This is a very very sad situation and i predict it's only going to get worse before it gets better. I'm afraid our country is in for a rough ride for a while!


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## Elsa (Feb 1, 2008)

Charley said:


> Seems like anyone could find another $300 a month. A second job would do that over a month at $8 an hour is only about 50 hours taking in for taxes and only 12 more hours a week....waitressing on weekends... cutting back on non necessities like air conditioning, cell phones, internet, cable tv.




I completely disagree.

In some areas, it's extremely hard to find work and as a current fulltime worker and student, I know I could never come up with the time for work to pull in an extra $300 month. Especially with prices rising and wages staying the same.


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## Brandi* (Feb 1, 2008)

Elsa said:


> Charley said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like anyone could find another $300 a month. A second job would do that over a month at $8 an hour is only about 50 hours taking in for taxes and only 12 more hours a week....waitressing on weekends... cutting back on non necessities like air conditioning, cell phones, internet, cable tv.
> ...


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## Boinky (Feb 1, 2008)

I agree elsa,

for many people, myself included $300, is not at all easy to come up with without borrowing from a relative or friend, it's ok as a temporary thing but not many friends or relatives are going to give you $300 extra per month..... it is NOT possible for many people.. $300 doesn't sound like a lot to many but it IS to some people.


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## KanoasDestiny (Feb 1, 2008)

I truly feel bad for those who are losing their homes. Yes, they may have gotten in over their heads when they went into the purchase, but with so many factors affecting our daily lives, it's easy to understand how it can be so common. I don't necessarily believe that it's one company's fault, but when they change terms on you, it surely doesn't help.

I can't wait for the day when I can purchase my own home with a little bit of land. My husband and I have been trying for so long, but like a lot of other people out there, debt is a very hard thing to pay off. For the longest time, my husband and I both had full time, minimum wage paying jobs. Well when you first move into your own apartment, that minimum wage money only goes so far....it basically pays for utilities and food. We had to purchase a car (it was already 7 years old at the time, so it wasn't even a new expensive one), furniture, appliances, pots and pans, dishes, and all the other little things that you have to buy when you first start out. When you're barely paying bills, you have to use credit to get all the necessary things. That debt sure does add up quickly.

We were finally almost totally paid off, when we came apon a bad year. We had a lot of car trouble, then we had a couple huge vet bills because it seemed like all our pets were getting sick or injured at the same time. I'm one of those people who will gladly be in debt forever, if it means that I can get my pets the medical help they need. My husband got a good paying job and we were finally down to our last couple thousand of debt, when the horses coliced last year. We had to then add even more debt, to purchase a used truck and trailer, so that we would never be unprepared again.

We have a little money saved up in case of emergencies, but unfortunately, we don't have thousands upon thousands of dollars waiting to go for a down payment. How I envy those of you who do have that kind of money sitting around. Thankfully, we live a decent life and enjoy having money to splurge when the mood hits. Believe me, I wish we could have had it easier earlier, because the house market was way down back then. It's no wonder why so many people in California are foreclosing...run down homes with land in my area, start at $150,000. Anything half way decent is $180,000 and up. And my area is one of the cheapest in the state!


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## Basketmiss (Feb 1, 2008)

First of all I didnt say EVERYONE has done this. I said I am sick of the ones WHO HAVE made bad decisions.

Stormy I am probably the most sweethearted person you would ever meet, i am always the one trying to HELP people who make these bad choices. I try to show them how to save money, no eating out, no more buying THINGS they cant afford etc. thats why it erks me when they dont listen and then cry oh poor me when they get things taken away.. Sign them up for welfare and assistance.

You know we have stuff too! A 5th wheel camper, 2 horses, etc but we dont buy it unless we can afford to pay for it and IF something bad happened then we would sell that camper, horses, whatever wasnt a NEED to get out of the spot we were in. Do you know how much it would take for us to lose our house! I would give up everything I had too..

I am surrounded by people who dont stop!

I know someone who lost his job on Nov 15th, his wife was on bed rest in pregnancy still getting her check til

Dec 21st.

NO money coming in after Dec 21st. They lived FAR beyond their means BEFORE ( couldnt pay their bills)he lost his job so now what

happens when she is out of money too and he is still and a 4 yr old and a baby on the way.

Do you know how many times they have eaten out since Nov 15th. At least 4 or 5 times a week!

We are both gainfully employed and dont eat out THAT much!

So with NO money coming in they have been buying stuff they dont need, like expensive baby things( dont need) the baby girl doesnt care if she has a blue crib sheet, comforter set or her brothers that was already paid for! he still doesnt have a job and she just had the baby, so will be 8 weeks til she goes back to work.

They havent tried to help themselves along the way when it was needed.

I can honestly say that if my husband lost his job he would get a job, even if at McDonalds, or even 2 jobs to bring money in! He wouldnt just sit back and not care... he has been an electrican for 20 years and makes a good salary and yes McDonalds wouldnt be his top pick but it would be a job! SOME money coming in is better than none!

THESe are the people I am talking about. I have tried to help them and be sympathetic but it doenst work, they still dont have any sense. Then yes I get angry, why do I try to help these people? Because I am a good person and hate to see someone get themselves in a bad spot, so if they do they have to make the effort to get out...it human to make mistakes but to KEEP making those SAME mistakes and then want all of us to get them out isnt fair to those of us who pay their bills and works their jobs..

I also know someone who filed bankruptcy 7 years ago then 2 yrs ago just built a BIG house.. Now how does that work!! Because they wrote off $30,000 in bills by filing backruptcy and then they get to build a house!! Well I would say if all of us could file bankruptcy and write off $30,000 in debt we could all build a BIG house, buy more horses and build our dream barn- whatever.

But no we keep working, paying our bills( you know the ones WE aquired) and make ends meet. We dont push our bills off on someone else!

Now I will say there are probably some times when bankruptcy has to be done, maybe a womans husband dies and she has always been a stay home Mom and they didnt have life insurance, so She is in a world of trouble with NO job, no skills outside the home and kids to feed and support.

But she would have to go out and get a job and start over- I know it isnt easy but you have to do what you have to do

I DO sympathise with the people who lost their jobs and were actaully trying to do what is right. I know that happens.

I know I cant change people from doing dumb things, but I can be unsympathetic when they keep doing the wrong things and never learn from them and try to better their situation...


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## Charley (Feb 1, 2008)

> I agree elsa,for many people, myself included $300, is not at all easy to come up with without borrowing from a relative or friend, it's ok as a temporary thing but not many friends or relatives are going to give you $300 extra per month..... it is NOT possible for many people.. $300 doesn't sound like a lot to many but it IS to some people.


Because you aren't willing to give up any of the extras that you have to include time to work. If faced with losing your home or your excesses (horses included) you could come up with the extra $300...and working at Mickey D's is usually available, just most won't look at what they can and should do to keep their word. That is what these people all did was promise to repay what they borrowed.


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## Cathy_H (Feb 1, 2008)

We are getting ready to put our "paid for " home up for sale & build a new house & barn. We still will not build more house & barn than we need................ I know some people had no control over events that caused them to lose their homes but many people should have been more realistic & smarter......................................... I heard someone mention that banks should not be able to foreclose on a persons home. I think banks would be more cautious in who they loan to if this were a law. At the same time it would stop people from owning a home but it also would limit people to a home that they could afford. Also at some point the banks would have to be given permission to foreclose as they can't turn into a charity... More personal responsibility needs to be assumed by high risk takers and careless people as well as shady & risky business practices........................... Again I say, "if you can't afford the gasoline don't buy the car" & that includes the house & the horse.


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## Bassett (Feb 1, 2008)

Another angle. DIVORCE. Not me, my son. Married 16 years. Divorce and spent everything we both have fighting for his children. (I'd give up everything I have for those girls and I guess I did but I'd do it again in a heartbeat). He did win 50/50 custody (which is what he wanted because he is a firm believer that the girls need BOTH their parents) and forced his ex to move back to the school district the girls have always gone to, but it has hurt both of us finacially. I am retired and living on fixed income. Come August I will lose $658.12 a month (long term disability from my employment ends at full retirement) because I am full legal retirement age. Now just how many of you can tell me that you could lose that kind of money in a household and not have problems. I already lost a lot when I had to put my husband in a nursing home a year ago. So please don't just assume it is always the persons fault for not paying their mortgages. There are all kinds of reasons. Lawyers don't come cheap and it will be a long, long time before he has them paid off.

Sorry for the rant but consider yourself lucky if you don't have money problems. I live in the Wisconsin and pretty poor economy and low wages. But that is the choise we made to live here because it is HOME.

Oh by the way, he has been foreclosed against (I live with him) and unless we can come up with $70,000.00 by April 3rd. We are out the door. So I may have to give up my horses because I can't afford them and can't find a place to rent that will accept them. How do you think that makes me feel? Horrible. Sorry. I love all you guys




Enough said.


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## Basketmiss (Feb 1, 2008)

Bassett,

Your sons case is another bad case. I am sorry you and him are going thru this. I understand the limited income and it will be a bad thing when you lose more of your money. I agree I would do anything to help my kids in that instance should it arise...

I know it can really mess up your self-esteem because of what you and your son are going thru..

Maybe you all can find a different home or rent something cheaper(since your incomes going down) which would help in the end. I know how hard it will be to lose your home, no matter if it a rental, trailer, house, or cracker box! its yours and it hurts..

I hope you dont have to sell your horses, I know they work themselves into your heart ...


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## Buckskin gal (Feb 1, 2008)

Having a home foreclosed on has to be devastating. I truly believe the average wage earner is having it tough right now because wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living and those of us who are retired and on a fixed income aren't finding it blissful either. We constantly have to keep in mind of what we can and can't afford but have always put away for a rainy day, when possible. A lot of planning, especially during better days, has to be done to keep ones head above it all. Right now we are looking at rising feed costs, higher property, State, and Federal taxes, not to even mention higher medical insurance costs, fuel and grocery prices etc. . Will it never end? Mary


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## Elsa (Feb 1, 2008)

Charley said:


> > I agree elsa,for many people, myself included $300, is not at all easy to come up with without borrowing from a relative or friend, it's ok as a temporary thing but not many friends or relatives are going to give you $300 extra per month..... it is NOT possible for many people.. $300 doesn't sound like a lot to many but it IS to some people.
> 
> 
> Because you aren't willing to give up any of the extras that you have to include time to work. If faced with losing your home or your excesses (horses included) you could come up with the extra $300...and working at Mickey D's is usually available, just most won't look at what they can and should do to keep their word. That is what these people all did was promise to repay what they borrowed.




I don't have any extras that consume time. I work 45 hrs per week and go to school for 12 credits. So you tell me where I have extra time to spend on another job. $300 per month is a lot to some people, don't assume that most can just pull it out of their a** if needed. For those who eat out constantly etc, it's a different story, but it doesn't apply to all of us.


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## minie812 (Feb 1, 2008)

Reading these posts sure makes a person think doesn't it? The economy in Wichita is going full force for someone with machinist-aircraft-engineering experience. My husband is back at WSU to learn the Catia programs to stay ahead of the youngsters coming out of college. He is 48 yrs old and like he said "God gave us a brain and he needs to use it and in this country we have the freedom to make choices." We are a nation of "I want it NOW" ... Don't care what it costs...We do not teach our children the values of working for something and paying cash...we rely to heavy on credit cards...has to be bigger-better then the nx door neighbor....etc...and then the folks that get SLAMMED by corrupt S/L and mortgage co and the CEO's walk away with millions AND the government is suppose to bail THEM out...IF we are not mindful of our actions AND take responsibility for them then YES we are doomed to failure




AND for the folks that thru no fault of their own get buried in the muck along with the rest I truly feel for them because I have been there too! (I sound like my mother OH! )


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## Pepipony (Feb 1, 2008)

Far too many times people get sold a dream and they buy into it. Not all of it is their fault, these companies play games with the numbers and unless you bring a lawyer or accountant, you're kinda getting into a pickle. So maybe 5 years ago they could afford the mortgage. But then gas prices have doubled/tripled and everything that depends on fuel has gone up. So you are now spending a lot more, for the same things, that you did 5 years ago. Now the mortgage company has upped your payments by 'x' amount. And what would have been managable, isnt because the cost of living has gone up and your pay has not. Add on to all of that the fact that the housing market is falling so that house you spent 'x' on is no longer worth that, if you sell it, will you pay off your mortgage?????

Everyone gripes about how those with less than themselves have gotten themselves into a pickle. What about the companies that play games to get those peoples money, then turn around and mess them over? I am all for personal responsibility, but sometimes these companies sell a dream because they have no morals or responsibility to do right by anyone but the CEOs. So that they can then reap rewards and give themselves massive bonuses. Wonder how much per gallon that Exxon execs bonus would have been, in fuel savings for us?

I think you are right Boinky. We are massively in debt and I think we would be lucky to only have a recession.


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## Charley (Feb 2, 2008)

I can remember when it was hard to get even a car loan. And you had to have a substantial down payment. Now, you can get a loan even if your credit is bad...and a good percentage of car owners are upside down on these loans. They owe more than what they could sell the car for. This has become common. We don't hear an uproar on this because the loan companies are making money. It is not about the consumer, it is about the investor.

If there were just a few foreclosures, say due to divorce or losing your job or having to relocate to find work or sickness forcing one to loose income, the loan companies could deal with these losses and still show an overall profit. But this crisis is so large that the loan company cannot cover the loss and show that profit that their investors expect. So it is to the loan company and investors to prey on the sympathy of our county as a whole and try to get the government to fund these loans somehow to keep people in their houses. This should not happen....but it is what the loan companies want. Otherwise they never would have felt one ounce of sympathy for their victims. Really all they care about is money and making more....not about the people who they victimized.

It is only news because of the effect it is having on these loan companies, banks, and investors.

I still believe that everyone should live within their means and they should know that some dreams they cannot afford. I do feel sorry for people in this situation....of just buying a home that they wanted and then not being able to afford it. However, I do not think that the government should help bail them all out. And I do not feel sorry for the people who manipulated these loans to buy houses to flip and got caught with a couple too many.


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## Jill (Feb 2, 2008)

I think a big part of the problem really is with the borrowers. For years and years, people were using home equity to finance life style and consumer types of products. No one forced them to take loans. There are a lot of sad situations out there, but many of them were really created through the individuals in question not really using sound planning.

That said, our mortgage is with Countrywide and we've been very pleased all around with the service, the rate, etc. We've got a low loan to value ratio by our choice, and we are sleeping fine at night.

Additionally, I've been in financial services for almost 20 years. For the past 12 years, I've been a financial planner / investment broker. I pay A LOT of attention to the economy and really, shaky times are "good" for me and my business due to our unique investment strategies and the fact that when times are rocky, people are even more likely to seek professional advice.

Prior to doing what I do now, I was a mortgage loan officer at "the" local bank. Back when I was making mortage loans, we wanted to know three things: How are you going to pay us back? How are you going to pay us back? And how are you going to pay us back? Loan to value was a factor but if there wasn't a sound income stream and a good debt service to income ratio, there was NO loan from "me".


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## kaykay (Feb 2, 2008)

However, I do not think that the government should help bail them all out.

I have to disagree. Right now many of these huge lenders are being investigated for Mortgage Fraud. These companies made billions of dollars selling these sub prime loans. And what hasnt been talked about in this thread much is the brokers and lenders who encouraged people to take cash out or get 2nd mortgages on homes that were not worth the loan. They were encouraged to do it because then the broker and lender made even more money on every loan that they got people to agree to do that. You wouldnt believe how many appraissers lost their licenses because of this. They were in on it too!! The appraisser would knownigly appraise a house way over its value and get a kick back from the broker.

The thing is the real estate market affects everything. If something isnt done soon to bring it back the economy will fall. My husband works for a drywall/building supply company. This their worst year on record. We have furniture stores (sofa express the latest) all going out of business. Resturants going under etc etc. its the trickle down effect and I do think the govmt has to try and stop it for all our sakes.

As a real estate agent I cringe everytime someone wants to look at a bank foreclosure. And I warn them that it could take 6 months to purchase a foreclosed home along with mountains of paperwork. I have called one lender (national city) for a month trying to get info on a foreclosed home for a customer. National city cant even find it. They know they own it but cannot locate the paperwork. So the house sits and has squatters living in it and deteriorates every day.

I would much rather see these people get help and stay in their home then see yet another foreclosed house sitting empty.


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## nightflight (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm sick of hearing that people are being foreclosed on too. I sick of it because they were told that they COULD afford a house, that paying rent was a bad decision, and buying a house and building equity was a good one. I am sick of the fact that the lending agents, banks, real-estate agents, all look at buyers' paperwork know that the rates being given to buyers won't last six months, and yet, no-one tells these buyers that the budgets they create are based on fictional numbers.

It's really not fun to pre-qualify, speak to an agent about what you can afford, look for months for a fixer-upper in that range that isn't even habitable until $X has been dropped in it, take out a mortgage for less than what you are told you can afford (because they number that you come up with any they come up with is a little different), and then a few months later get the notice in the mail that payments are going up into that "I can't go there" zone, that you had talked to an agent about months before. It's really not fun to thank your lucky stars that you are educated enough to find another option - and have time to do it because you stuck to your guns instead of taking all of the advice of the "experts". It's not fun when you know that some people don't have those same lucky stars and are up *THAT* creek.

Try to divorce yourself from an egocentric view of the world. Not everyone is out to take advantage of the system.

Edit:

*** There was an article in the newspaper here not to long ago talking about a few extreme cases. In one, a man who had english as a second language purchased a house - and within two months his payments doubled. He contacted the newspaper as this couldn't be legal, it's not what he was TOLD would happen, but, alas, it was legal as his signature was on the paperwork.... Don't buy it if you can't afford it, right?


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## nightflight (Feb 3, 2008)

...and one more thing...

So, for whatever reason you find yourself in a home you can't afford, a few hundred dollars a month short of what you really need. So, you follow the advice of all the lovely people on this thread... for how long?

How long will it be until your home is actually worth as much as you owe on it? How long will be it until you can afford to make those little repairs that will increase it's value on the market - you're so strapped for cash you can't make payments at this point. How long do you have to wait to be able to sell it and not owe any money for a home you don't have anymore? How long are you supposed to hold the Mc.Donalds nightshift job, go without AC, heat, Lil Beginnings, things for your kids...

So, you are faced with a choice. Keep this house, sacrifice for this house, and hope that sometime in the next seven years that the job market improves and you make more money, the min. wage goes up and that Mc.D's job pays for everything and the housing market improves so you can get out from under that beast of a house and find something that works - which in only an option if your payments stay where they are, you don't loose your job, you and your kids have good health insurance, nothing breaks in your car (because you can't afford to fix it), and no unexpected expenses ever pop up...

...or you can walk away right here and now and try to put yourself in a better situation.

Those you don't want the gov. involved in this, when someone walks away from a house it doesn't help them, you, me, the neighborhood, or the economy. People didn't used to default like this? Well, communities also used to be different. Big loan companies never see the properties they loan against, other people are hired for that. Did your loan agent ever actually drive out to see the place? Bet not. What a mess.


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## Shortpig (Feb 3, 2008)

I believe that the government should assist those who are losing their homes on a case by case basis.

I almost lost my home about 10yrs ago. I had a great job, was making really good money and life was

good. Then my guy woke up one morning and informed me he was leaving. He had planned this for awhile without sharing. No fighting no warning just bye. Then the company I was working for had major cut backs.

I was one of them. I was a buyer for ship repair. Well their aren't alot of opportunities to get a job doing

that same thing. Tried to get other buyer jobs but they felt I was extremely over qualified and would become bored only buying one item rather than every item all over the world. Go figure! At least my daughter and I could have eaten. Don't find that too boring. I ended up getting a job in my little community in a quick mart. Making minimum wage and working what ever odd hours they would give me during the week. They did however allow my daughter and I to eat one meal at the store for free a day and take the

left overs home at night if their were any. Luckily for me I had friends who really assisted me with feeding

my horses. I worked at a stable to pay for board. I had elder friends who gave me their hay from their fields. My house was 30 days off the auction block when a elder friend and another stepped up and loaned me the money to save it. What a blessing that was. Oh by the way. Everytime I got paid I went to the bank cashed my check and purchased a cashiers check with all the money I had but $50.00 made out to the

Mortage company. They wouldn't accept less than full payment up to date. I was always a hundred or so shy. What I have learned is this. The most important bill a person has is their home, be it rented or mortgaged. It means a dry place to sleep. I will not buy a home that doesn't have wood heat in it for these situations. At least then you have heat. I can live without electricity but feel it is important to have a roof

and heat. The only thing I don't understand and agree with is buying your home with a floating interest rate to save a point or so. Trust me the rates will always increase at some point. Real Estate in our area was crazy for a couple years. You couldn't buy a 2 acres with a mfgd home on it for less than $300000 I know of a place with a double wide, a shop and 3 acres, an in ground pool and a pond that the owners wanted

$600000 for



. Give me a break. They are my friends but still that is so extreme. They needed to get out of the property what they had in the property. I really don't believe that will happen. They haven't sold it yet. The place I own now is worth at least double what I have a mortgage for. It is considered in

a prime location and I can sell and buy more land. My heart breaks everytime I hear of someone who has lost their job, their home and their lives as they knew it. Should some people just walk away. That is their decision to make. They have to do what they themselves can live with. Should other people judge them for the choices they made. No! Here is my question to everyone on this forum. Their is a huge over stock of horses of all sizes and breeds in our country. Would it hurt anyone to stop breeding for a year or two and help to solve this problem. Is it the almighty dollar that keeps people breeding. What good is a better horse if it ends up on the auction block for running loose trying to survive. We can help we just have to make that choice. Sometimes Life happens and when it does it destroys alot of people. Sad but true!

I know this will irritate some but reality says that we have bred so many horses they no longer have homes available to go to. Shelters are full of dogs and cats that need homes. When they can't get a home they

are destroyed. People are still having children they can't afford to raise so we help to support them.

Families are having to move in together to survive. Personally is that really so bad having families raising children and the children being close to their gdads and gmoms or aunts & uncles. Okay I will step down from my soap stool and hope that our country as we know it will survive this. But not without every American pitching in in some way to help out. Isn't that what this country is all about.


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## Pepipony (Feb 3, 2008)

Nightflight YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!


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## Brandi* (Feb 3, 2008)




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## Basketmiss (Feb 3, 2008)

You know when I started this thread, I was saying my opinion about SOME people.

People ARE accountable! So are mortgage companies, of course if they are at fault then they are to blame, but they are not at fault for ALL these foreclosers..

I wonder Why people didnt get a fixed loan rate?? I understand if you didnt then you have to expect that your loan is gonna go up! That is how they make MORE MONEY!!

Nightflight said people were TOLD they could afford it! Do these people know how to add?? You cant pay more than you make- right? I have been told many times we can afford so much more than I would ever loan!! We have excellent credit- the best score possible, so they want to loan us lots! But I have to have a brain and say "well we bring in this much so even though they say we could loan this much- we cant"! I am not willing to lose all we have because I get an ego trip because they told us we could afford it!! We know what we can afford- Period!!Because WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE for the house payment no matter what they Told us!! No-on is gonna pay it for us, so we cant loan more than we can afford to pay...

I think there were lots of people who had the dream to own a house, but they didnt carefully THINK it over and see what ALL of the ramifications would be.. Yes that includes utilites going up, gas going up, food going up...That is ALL part of the buying process...

These forelosers are not all from just recently. I know of some people who are loosing their homes they have had for years. Do you know whY?

Because they werent smart ( I am not judging, just stating facts) they had the same jobs they always have, havent lost anything, or different expenses, they just buy whatever their little hearts desire! Got in way over their heads.. Nowadays SOME people think if they want it then they must have it!!

If they have 1 house then they need 2 so then they can sell one and make money, so then its someone elses fault that the market went down and they cant flip that house and set themselves up real nice!

We have 1 house, know why? cause that is all we need! We dont need to have something bigger or more expensive, we dont need to buy a house and flip it and make money..

That is taking a huge risk just like breeding 20 mares and then if you cant sell all the foals, Whose fault is that? It is yours the person who bred them, or me or whoever!

Its not the government, or the sale barn, or the breeder that you bought the mares from...No-one is gonna FIX it for you because you wanted to breed 20 horses and thought you could sell them then the market went down and you are stuck feeding 20 more horses, which is expensive...it all on your shoulders..Even if it didnt turn out like you wanted...

We are all responsible for our actions, that means when they are Good and also when they are Bad... We dont get to choose to only be responsible when the going is good!

Last year we wanted an older SUV but we had a car, so do you know what? We had to sell the car FIRST then we bought the SUV with that money! We didnt think "we will sell this car sometime and since we WANT the SUV we will just buy it and worry about all that later"!! We took care of business, sold the car first then got the SUV. What if we didnt sell the car?? We wouldnt have gotten the SUV!!

It is an easy thing to do..

This is just a small example of something that alot of people do and then wonder why they have bills piling up??

Same as buying a new vehicle then deciding you dont want it anymore,( no matter the reason) so you trade it in and you are upside down so you tack that onto the new vehicle loan, so you end of owing way more than it is worth. You are actually still paying for the 1st vehicle and you havent had it for 5 vehicles back! This just keeps happening UNTIL you dont do it anymore.. Very Simple..

Or you sell that vehicle outright and pay it off and dont do this again...

I am not trying to judge anyone just wishing people would THINK things thru and not have to have Immediate Gratification... That is the problem, so many could live with so much less.

But we make our money and are free to do what we want with it- right. yes then we are also free to PAY for everything that we choose to buy..

Brandi, No I am not in this predicament thats why I am trying to help people who are- THINK ... You said what you wanted and I read it and thats it. You probably dont want to be judged, did you want people on here to give you advice on what you should have done differently? I'm sure people would have been glad to give you advice.. I am sorry it happened to you and your husband... I dont wish this on anyone...

I am trying to help people THINK instead of just doing. I know so many people that just keep making the same mistakes over and over and then expect someone else to get them out of the mess they got into.

I would never want anyone to lose their home or cars or whatever, but sometimes it takes those kind of things for people to make better choices. We are supposed to learn from our mistakes. If you learn and do things differently then kudos to you, thats what it is all about, making smarter choices..

Yes there are always exceptions to the rule just like Shortpig said happened to her. I hate that it happened that way and it stinks and she did what she had to do -work in the quik mart, did without, not by choice but by nessacity...

Sorry I wasnt trying to START anything, just expressing my opinion which we all are free to do.. I would love for people to never lose their homes or anything but with the way this world is going I dont see that happening anytime soon..


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## Charley (Feb 3, 2008)

Excellent post Basketmiss! That sums it up very well.

I do feel for those that are losing their homes.

Our family has bought and sold several homes as we moved every few years as a military family. We made the choices that we made and often bought the lower priced home that we looked at. We fought to keep enough in savings to deal with normal things that would arise and still lived paycheck to paycheck. But we never overextended ourselves and then looked to the government to bail us out. When my husband retired from the service, we had very little equity built up in a home that we had owned for eight years. But we still sold again, moved, had saved enough for another down payment and closing costs, and bought again. We didn't take a 30 year mortgage even though we qualified, we chose a fifteen year fixed rate mortgage and have never missed a payment. So I do know what I am talking about.

It is amazing to me to think of all the papers that are signed at a home closing and then people thinking that they don't have to pay a loan back...that they can just walk away....and start over again. My signature on a loan application and my signature at a closing promised to pay back the amount I borrowed. It was never tied to a housing market going up or down or what a realtor or mortgage company told us we could do. We were responsible.


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## Brandi* (Feb 3, 2008)




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## Sonya (Feb 3, 2008)

Aside from the countrywide loans, which is a whole different story from your typical foreclosure, I know of a few people who have had to foreclose...and none of them were because they were irresponsible or borrowed too much, yada yada yada...it was because of misfortune...losing jobs, spouses, hard times, etc. None of them took it lightly and it was the hardest thing they ever had to do and they pay for it for many many years.

ex - a friend of mine...her husband left her for another woman, just up and left...drained what little monies they had in the bank and left . She could not pay for everything on her own of course and had to claim bankrupcy...she lost her house, car...and most importantly, her *dignity and self worth*. It has been 14 years and she STILL can't get a lousy car loan without having a co-signer and even with that they are gauging her with high interest. They tell her, you must build up your credit history again so you can maybe someday get a mortgage to buy a home...the only way to build the credit back up is to borrow, lets say for a $5000 car, and keep that loan open for a long period of time (even if you don't need the loan for the car and can pay cash)...it is a double edge sword since they are now charging you 23% interest for that car you could pay cash for.

Now granted I'm sure there are people out there who are irresponsible, but I don't think that makes up the majority of foreclosures.

I would never judge anyone because of their misfortunes and I believe that is the majority of forclosures....no one wants to loose everything they have...and it's certainly not the easy way out, not when you are talking about also losing your idenity and confidence.


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## Cathy_H (Feb 3, 2008)

I think it goes without saying that most of the opinions are toward careless and irresponsible people. YES bad luck does sometimes hit very responsible & hard working people & I am not including them in my opinion on this topic............... Last year as Lee and I were sitting in a restaurant eating lunch I heard a twenty something young woman behind me tell her companion " I'm not going to worry about my finances - when the time is right I will file bankruptcy & everything will be ok in seven years"......






............ The world is full of people that think like that & I am tired of having our budgeted hard earned money going toward helping them out only to do it again!!!!!!!!


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## Black Magic (Feb 3, 2008)

I haven't read the entire thread here... but feel a need to throw in my two cents...

"But for the Grace of God, there go I". Bad things happen to good people. An ex.. we rented out our mobile home to a nice couple with children.. (three of them). The husband was a pastor.. had good references.. his father in law was the Bishop of the church, you couldn't ask to meet nicer people. A week after they moved into the mobile.. she kicked her husband (#3) out. Her husband no. 1... had been in JAIL for killing husband #2... and he had no place to live. So the wife... moved husband no. one in after being in jail for 20 years. Things went downhill quick. Prior neighbor called the police on them for all sort of complaints and well.. husband #3 was there at the time and and tried to jump the police officer who dropped him with a tazer. Husband #1 showed up and he tried to jump the officer who them pepper sprayed #3 and put the tazer on husband #1! Apparently when wife thre husband #3 out, he got involved with drugs... I evicted. We put the house up for sale.. (which it had been the prior year but slow market.. no buyers) SO.. when we got into the house, the house had $18K in damages. I took $5K out of savings in order to hire contractor.. (again good references) to fix the mobile. His wife left him and he left town with her.. with the $5K! I had to do all the work myself.. floors... walls.. everything had to be gutted. It wasn't an old mobile. Hubby's savings were quickly squished into nothing as far as affording three mortgages... two vehicle payments and repair costs.

Well, it's a year later. We're just getting back on track. Everything was paid late... we could of been one of those people that had problems... we were lucky.

So .. I don't think it has to do with having too large a mortgage payment. Our payment is large.. but hubby makes decent money... (mortgage =s one week's gross pay check). I'm a stay at home Mom.

BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE! I feel for those people from Countrywide. A little compassion doesn't cost me a thing. And as my kids tell me... no one is better then the next victim of a disaster.

God Bless,

Lynn W

Hubby's new saying... 'HORSEWORK BEFORE HOUSEWORK"... GOTTA LOVE THE MAN..


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## Basketmiss (Feb 3, 2008)

bjpurpura said:


> Basketminis,
> 
> I am going to remove myself from your over all consensus here. We made some mistakes and we MOST certainly learned from them. I am happy this happened to us when we are in our late 20's rather then late 50's. We will recover and come back as strong as ever. But life is about making mistakes and learning from them. What I am hearing you say is that you are very frustrated with some friends that are in a bad way but they keep making it worse...keep making the same bad decisions....keep spending their money where they shouldn't. And you are speaking of anyone and everyone that is making these same mistakes and decisions right? If this is correct then I have no reason to take offense. My only point is that not everyone is going out there spending their money on a whem, buying things they can't afford and not having a care in the world. When we bought our house we could totally afford it! Yes we probably should have sold the house in CA before buying the one in NC. But how can you know these things without living it? When we bought the house in NC the market was great, and we were making more then enough to cover both houses until the CA house sold. How could we have known he would get laid off? It was a risk and it could have went both ways. Unfortunately for us it went sour and we learned an EXTREMELY hard lesson. We had a great loan on both houses and neither were adjustable. I guess I just feel personally attacked by some of the statements because I have recently went through all of this and I don't think we are as STUPID as you imply (no you didn't call foreclosure victims stupid, but you did say they should learn to be SMART).
> 
> I like you very much Basketmini's and my previous post was not directed solely at you. And in no way do I want you to stop sharing your opinion. I just don't like being thrown in the basket with people you consider irresponsible and ignorant. I certainly don't think that about myself and I like to think that even though we made a mistake things will be ok and we are still good people.


Brandi, you are correct in that I was never judging you ... I am frustrated at people I know that do keep doing these things and they complain to me and I try to help and then they keep doing it! Yes it gets on my last nerve... They want to complain to me but then dont want me to have an opinion... Well then dont tell me because I do have an opinion and try to help them to no avail!!

I like you too and didnt want to offend you... You and your husband WILL be fine, it stinks that it happened that way to you and now you learned, even though you werent over spendingand you could afford both house , sometimes life happens to all of us and we get in a bind! You are definently a good person and I would never say otherwise...

When I said people should THINK I meant really consider all the consequences. There are some geniuses in this world that keep making big mistakes. the smartest person isnt very smart if they keep making the same mistakes and getting into messes each time..

I always look at the Amish that live about 30 minutes from us. I have taken my kids to see them and tell them about how they live together in homes they have built and pay cash for, no electricity, no indoor restroom, no cars, anyway NO I dont want to live like the Amish! I really like indoor plumbing! I just want my kids to see that there are people who have less than us and people who have more and those Amish are happy as larks, cause they dont know any different.. They dont care that they dont have cars, the fanciest house, expensive clothes, eat out, cell phone etc. they just are who they are...Just because some people have HUGE houses and new vehicles doesnt make them happy...

Thanks Cathy H for realizing that I was not picking on responsible people...I have never said in any of my posts that I am not heartsick for the people who have lost due to bad things happening. yes bad things do happen to good people...

I would love for everyone to have their dreams as it were but not at someone elses expense...


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## Brandi* (Feb 3, 2008)

I understand you completely now Basketmini's


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