# I am really bewildered and would like to understand



## Marnie (Sep 8, 2008)

Unless you make more than $200,000 a year, they always favor the people with millions of dollars, they always have. I don't want arguements or mean mouthed people, just some straight facts here, I won't argue or interrupt, I just don't understand why people can't see what the Bush administration has done to this country plus made us such a hated and ridiculed nation, it's just pathetic what has happened. I watch alot of news on a lot of stations, see alot as the tv is on here by my computer, I know a person can't believe everything they hear either but don't the facts speak for themselves, the facts of this Republican Administration? I need to try to understand because I think the country is in a huge mess and if the republicans get in, I really fear for the future of our kids and I see these two as being the same as Bush, high dollar and like to spend. So please, be kind to me but try to make me understand your thoughts, in a nice way.


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## Nathan Luszcz (Sep 8, 2008)

Just because you vote republican does not mean that you love republicans... maybe it means you agree more with them than you do the democrats?


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 8, 2008)

I'll bite. No, I did not come from money. I was raised very poor. We didn't even have any indoor plumbing until I was 13. My father had a stroke when I was 5 and died when I was 9. We fished when the weather permitted and raised our own chickens and veggies. We canned, butchered and never knew life was suppose to be different. So that tells you I am not from money. I am in no way wealthy today. Ron has a very small one man operation. Being republican does not mean you are wealthy monetarily. In high school while everyone took french I took business classes with the JRs and then went into DECA. So maybe I had an early start in learning how business works and the needs to have them make a profit and do well. If business does not do well then anyone that works for these businesses wont either. Your pay and benefits all come from a business that is functioning at their level of expectation. If you yourself were a business owner and were hit with a higher tax would you increase employee benefits no matter how hard it hit your business or would you either cut out a benefit or maybe a job to keep your business functioning at the level of expectation?

I hope this explained to you why we are republican. No hard feelings! I am glad you are asking questions.

Fran


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## Ginia (Sep 8, 2008)

Again, no hard feelings. My background is very similar to Fran's, lucky enough to have grown up with both parents alive and well, but definitely central Kansas hard-working very small farmers. Always enough to eat and a comfy clean (and paid for) home, but that home was paid for by a Dad that worked full time "in town" and farmed our 80 acre wheat farm evenings and weekends, and a frugal stay-at-home Mom that sewed, gardened, canned and did all she could with her time to contribute to our lives. In addition to Fran's thoughts regarding the need for businesses to make profits and stay successful in order to provide goods and jobs, one of the biggest reasons I am Republican in this period of history is because of the abortion issues (and a little bit of strong feelings regarding the necessity of keeping our governmental hands OFF of the 2nd amendment.) Abortion is MURDER, plain and simple. Perhaps justifiable in cases of rape, incest and grave danger to the mothers health (not entirely sure about that). If it weren't murder, then in cases where a pregnant woman is murdered, the convicted murderer would't be charged with 2 murders (mother and unborn child), but rather only for the murder of the woman. Hope I haven't offended any of you, but this is how I feel.


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## Marnie (Sep 8, 2008)

I will add that we grew up poor too, 12 kids in the family, worked like dogs, couldn't join school activities, never had new clothes, laughed at in school, dad got sick when we were young so grew up on welfare, our mom was quite mean to us and by the way, had no indoor plumbing till I was out of high school and left home. l Now I consider myself low middle class and I just lost my job to Mexico. I know what poor is and I consider myself rich now, very rich and I so don't want my kids or grandkids to have to go thru bad times so hope like heck that someone can get the country straightened out and give the middle class and the poor people some help because they are the ones that need it, not the millionaires.

I agree with the abortion being murder but sometimes a person should have the choice, it's a touchy subject. I hope to get some more answers here too, still trying to see what people think, half the country can't be crazy so maybe it's me.


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 8, 2008)

I think this is very interesting that you asked. I too wonder how people can vote Republican after what we have gotten the last 8 years from a Republican. So much is wrong in this country right now and it will take a heck of a team to set things right again. I don't understand how Mc Cain thinks he can set things right after voting 90% of the time right along the Bush mentality. Now we see that Mcain will lower taxes for the richest and the heck with the middle class. This is how it has been and seems it will continue with what MCain says. He and his wife have riches that anyone would like to have and his wife has no idea what sacrifices the middle class has to make while she wears her $300,000. 00 outfits to campain for her husband. Like I have said before, there is nothing wrong in being rich but we need a president that is looking out for the hard working middleclass for a change. Have you read some of the latest such as bailing out the two mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac....this is being allowed by Bush and we, will pay dearly for it. I don't know if Obamha will make a better president but I am considering giving him a chance. Of course, no matter who is in charge, I think their job will be huge and take some miracles to get this country on track. Before long China will own this country if things continue as is. JMHO



> "NEW YORK - Stocks mostly advanced Monday as investors placed bets that a recovery in the financial and housing sectors is more likely to occur following the U.S. government's move to bail out mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The Dow Jones industrials gained more than 150 points but the Nasdaq composite index declined as technology stocks lagged.
> 
> The announcement Sunday that the Treasury Department was seizing control of the companies, which own or back about half the nation's mortgage debt, brushed aside investors' long-simmering worries that the pair would be felled by a spike in bad mortgage debt.
> 
> ...


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 8, 2008)

Frankly, I'm a little confused given the current state of our nation that people vote Republican because of business. I would think if keeping Republicans in office helped business which kept the economy afloat, the nation would be in a far better place financially.

I'm STILL trying to find the exact research, but I did hear recently that over the last sixty years, the economy has done better under a Democratic president than a Republican one, and that in addition to that people with lower to mid incomes do better with a Democrat in office, but those with higher incomes do equally as well no matter who's in office.

I've always thought a lot of it comes down to values. A lot of Republicans are very strongly for 2nd amendment rights (so am I, and I'm a Dem), against abortion (I dislike the term pro-life as well), for the death penalty, more religious than not, and so on. When looking for leaders you tend to seek out those that have morals and ethics in line with yours, and are more likely to enact policies in line with your beliefs.

Of course, you have a LOT of people who mix it up. You have some Republicans who are pro gay marriage, Dems who are pro gun...you get the picture.

And then you have people who vote with one party or another because that's what they've always done, or what their family had always done. A lot of times those people have little idea what they're voting for, and that's the kind of ignorance that makes my blood boil. Having said that I need to go staple some pamphlets to my friend's foreheads.


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 8, 2008)

I apologize, Marnie, that people aren't going to let you learn why we feel the way we do. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to PM or email me. I'll answer them to my best ability.

And according to Fatcheck FATCHECK

"



> Also, Obama voted in line with fellow Senate Democrats 97 percent of the time in 2007 and 2005, and 96 percent of the time in 2006, according to CQ.
> 
> And so . . .
> 
> ...


I guess everyone needs to believe in something. I chose to believe in the truth not a delusion.

Fran


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## Jill (Sep 8, 2008)

Marnie, I like you a lot, however...

When I read just your topic title, you know the first thing that pops into my mind is how can anyone who's informed and intelligent not back McCain and Palin. I just don't understand why Obama appeals to many voters. Sincerely.

Offensive, probably. But not not any more so than what has been said in the other direction, and it's honestly how I feel.

Thankfully, according to recent polls, 54% of the likely voters are in favor of McCain, with 44% favoring Obama. It makes me thrilled to see that right now, most of "us" are on the right track.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110110/Gallup-D...Point-Lead.aspx


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## Marnie (Sep 8, 2008)

But Jill, I know you like Mc Cain, you've stated it many times and you are one of the ones I wanted an answer from but no one tells me why? I swear, I'm not being a smart alec, I really want to know why some one would think their ideas' are good. I'll wait to watch the debates, to see the issues, so far the repubs just talk about how great each other is and how horrible Obama is, I want to see the debates. this should be an exciting year. If no one will tell me, I guess it'll remain one of the seven wonders of the world, I'll never get it. I know why I vote Democrat, I've stated it but I take it that they do tax small business's but I guess that's all I get from this thread. Maybe it's because the parents did, I don't know, I'm at a loss. I must be a dim witt, it's a good thing I'm not running for president.


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## Jill (Sep 8, 2008)

> But Jill, I know you like Mc Cain, you've stated it many times and you are one of the ones I wanted an answer from but no one tells me why? I swear, I'm not being a smart alec...


Marnie, I believe McCain has the vision, decisiveness and experience to successfully lead our Nation. I do not feel Obama does. In my heart, I honestly feel our Nation's welfare depends on McCain being elected and that we will be in a precarious position if Obama is elected.

I'm loving the boost that Palin brings! She impresses me greatly and the "negative" things reported about her to my ears are so minor especially when I know how hard the press has worked to try and ferret out anything big, with no real luck at all. Palin is a someone I admire and am just tickled with what she brings.

McCain will help insure that wars our soldiers fight will not be fought on home soil. <--------------

McCain will expand trade / promote free trade to strengthen our economy.

McCain will make taxation more fair and level, currently the top 25% of US tax payers pay 84% of the total federal income tax burden (and I"m sick of it -- most of you who think that's fine and so what if the rich pay that much would be surprised to see YOU are also probably in the top 25%).

McCain will work to free the US from dependence on foreign oil.

McCain will work to make health care more affordable and but will not promote a socialized medical system.

These are some of the things I believe and some of the reasons I am voting for McCain.

_PS, Marnie, I'm sorry I didn't answer you in my previous post. I'm so used to bashing from the other side, I didn't understand you sincerely were asking for "why". Thank you for asking and for listening, even if you do not agree with my reasoning as to why he is the right man for our Nation._


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## FairytailGlennMinis (Sep 8, 2008)

I am another one from a poor family with a long history of being conservative. I personally am more moderate, but I mostly vote republican--mostly since I look at issues and not at the D or R. I am prolife and that is an important issue to me. I am also sick to death of working and working and working to pay for government programs that don't just help the less fortunate--they make them dependant! I believe in a strong military--maybe that is family pride and being raised to be proud of our military and what we have accomplished. I believe in LESS government involvement and am SO tired of everything having to be PC. I am tired of our jobs being sent overseas while our industry fades away leaving us without jobs and with more foreign dependancy. I hate that families with generations of small business being passed down are lost to the inheritance taxes (thanks from all family businesses go to GW for removing that--though Obama wants to slap it back in place asap!) I can go into more detail on any of these opinions, but am keeping it brief for now.

As for the current group in office...well...I have to admit of being disapointed. Being mostly conservative I believe in less government involvement, less handouts to those who won't work to help themselves and less goverment dependancy. If I wanted to live in a socialist country there are plenty to chose from. My husband and I work our butts off for everything we have and make a surprisingly small amount compared to a lot of people, but what we have we are proud of and would like to keep. I think there is plenty of room for change and I am hopeful that McCaine and Palin will stand by the true conservative roots while expanding on rights for people despite sexual orientation (Palin has voted FOR gay rights) and helping to solve the healthcare crisis. I will be voting Republican because I don't think socialism is right for our country.

As for being embarassed by our current administration...was having a president who lied under oath and used the oval office as his own personal brothell while sending millions of jobs overseas better for us?


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## anita (Sep 8, 2008)

Very well put, Jill!

I am a Republican because I want to live in a free country, have my own freedom

Anita


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## anita (Sep 8, 2008)

I will be voting for Republican because I don't think socialism is right for our country

Very good point FairytailGlennMinis

1950 a young unkown man came to Cuba and promised "Change". Goverment help for famers, free health care, gov. schools, gov. controlled business, gov help to anyone........... Folks didn't asked: "whats your change young man?"

They all yelled "we want change, change, change........ Viva Fidel!

This was 1950 see what is Cuba in 2008 and the years to come

A


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## tagalong (Sep 8, 2008)

> As for being embarassed by our current administration...was having a president who lied under oath and used the oval office as his own personal brothell while sending millions of jobs overseas better for us?


Well, in the last 8 years jobs have continued to go overseas. So have troops. The National Debt has had the biggest increase in history and rose at a faster rate than all the proceeding adminstrations (both Republican and Democratic) put together. Prior to W, the debt was finally decreasing. The American dollar has fallen drastically in value in the last few months. And at times the truth has been danced with rather freely - Weapons of Mass Deception, perhaps. IMO honesty is in short supply across the board - _no matter what party or what politician is involved... _

A brothel? Yeah - it was unbelievably, incredibly stupid (and then some) - but one bimbo does not a brothel make... and at least it did not affect the economy, national security etc. _*snort*_

But as to why people pick a party and stay there - everyone has their own belief system... and their own ideals... and many find one path that they like and just stay there no matter who the candidate is. Some are died in the wool Republicans... some diehard Democrats. Sometimes it is a family "tradition", sometimes a personal one. Sometimes the area of the country you live in leans more one way or the other and you are influenced by your peers.

Everyone is entitled to follow their own course - and while at times it seems mindboggling to people on either side that anyone could possibly not see things the way they do becaue their way is the right way, it seems to have been working well for many countries for many years.... the fact that there is more than one side to any issue and any decision means we are always free to make our own choices.


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## FairytailGlennMinis (Sep 8, 2008)

Tagalong you missed one point I made...if you want to quote me make sure you get all of it... "As for the current group in office...well...I have to admit of being disapointed." I am hoping that McCain and Palin will bring those jobs back to this country.


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## anita (Sep 8, 2008)

I hate to say this but that was President Clinton who send mill jobs overseas and made business with China and much more

Anita


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## tagalong (Sep 8, 2008)

> Tagalong you missed one point I made...if you want to quote me make sure you get all of it... "As for the current group in office...well...I have to admit of being disapointed." I am hoping that McCain and Palin will bring those jobs back to this country.


You are right - thanks




- I meant to include that as well - but my brain froze on the thought of Monica under the desk. Ick.

Hopefully, if elected, McCain will start to bring jobs back - and reverse that flow that continues to this day. And pull the National Debt out of the plunge it is in... eliminate the current practice of borrowing money from Japan, China and others... and clean up the mess that W will have left behind.





The next couple of months are going to be very interesting...


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## Jill (Sep 8, 2008)

I agree, Anita... And had Clinton taking appropriate action after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 1993, or appropriate action after the 2000 attack on the USS Cole, I wonder how different our world might be?


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 8, 2008)

It was Bill Clinton who also pushed NAFTA through so that is what happened to America's jobs.


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## tagalong (Sep 8, 2008)

Nothing has been changed about NAFTA in 8 years though. Bush Sr. started it, Clinton finished it... Obama thinks it was a bad idea as well.

Right after W took office, the administration was briefed on the Cole investigation and who was behind it... and also did not act - mainly because under US law, an attack on a US military target does not constitute an act of terrorism.

There will always be endless woulda, coulda, shoulda - the next President needs to act proactively, not retroactively or reactively.

And I wish someone would catch Osama Bin Laden.


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## Wee Mite Miniatures (Sep 8, 2008)

FairytailGlennMinis said:


> As for being embarassed by our current administration...was having a president who lied under oath and used the oval office as his own personal brothell


And McCain is different how? Or was his affair Ok because he divorced his disabled wife and married the woman he was cheating with? The question is he still cheating on this wife? So cheating is ok but abortion is not?

McCain's affairs


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## AppyLover2 (Sep 8, 2008)

Clinton's "brothel" didn't bother me nearly as much as his continued claims of innocence. He certainly would have had a lot more of my respect if he'd just had the intestinal fortitude to fess up. As it was he looked right into the camera and lied to all of us.....that's what bothered me the most. He certainly wasn't the first man in a prominent position to have a special "friend", but his dishonesty was repulsive to me.

As I stated in a different thread, I'm a registered independent. I don't vote for the party....just try to pick the person who I feel is the most capable of accomplishing the things that I think need to be done. I may not be totally convinced that McCain can get everything "fixed", but I'm very concerned about the future of the US if Obama is elected.


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## Neil (Sep 9, 2008)

Wee Mite Miniatures said:


> And McCain is different how? Or was his affair Ok because he divorced his disabled wife and married the woman he was cheating with? The question is he still cheating on this wife? So cheating is ok but abortion is not?
> McCain's affairs


Do you actually believe what you read in politicati ?

WOW, boggles the mind.


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## Wee Mite Miniatures (Sep 9, 2008)

Neil said:


> Do you actually believe what you read in politicati ?
> WOW, boggles the mind.


Neil,

Who knows about anything after the affairs with his current wife. The affair, in his first marriage, with the Cindy he did admit to.


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## horseplay (Sep 9, 2008)

As far as the link to McCains affairs, come on, it's a joke. I can't imagine anyone possible putting much stock into that. Yes, some facts are stated and the rest is just verbal diarrhea, same goes for 1/2 of the things in print about Obama. People really need to use their heads and not believe everything they read.


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 9, 2008)

Osama Bin Laden - needs to be captured as I am sure everyone will agree.

Obama and Biden - Do you really think they will do that? I surely do not! Obama can not keep it straight what

his plans are for the war or anything else for that matter.

McCain and Palin - McCain has his military experience and "Let me be clear, under my administration Osama bin Laden

will either be killed on the battlefield or executed."

Bin Laden is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people. People just like us. These people went to work that day like any other. And I truely hope no one ever forgets them.

Fran


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## nootka (Sep 9, 2008)

"I will be voting for Republican because I don't think socialism is right for our country"

This is how I feel, as well, among other reasons I am leaning towards McCain and Palin (I will not vote Obama no matter what).

Liz


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## Southern_Heart (Sep 9, 2008)

Just my 2 cents worth here!





The Republican party believes in personal freedom.





_Democrats enjoy running other people's lives, and regulating what they can or cannot do._





By contrast, Republicans believe that most people, given the freedom to choose, will do the right thing on their own.





Republicans believe in less government and lower taxes.





_Democrats, on the other hand, are the party that has what it takes to take what you have. _





The Republican party thinks you are best qualified to decide how to spend your own hard-earned money.








So having said that I am a Republican no ifs and or buts about it.



Plus I don't think socialism is right for our country either!!





Vote McCain and Palin





Joyce


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## Jill (Sep 9, 2008)

[SIZE=12pt]Joyce -- [/SIZE]

I love your post!!!





Jill


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 9, 2008)

Yes,,, that is why when comes to a right to choose,,, republicans can't stop till they make sure that right is taken away. They don't want you to make the right choice for you.

Liz,,,Really???


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## BigDogs & LittleHorses (Sep 9, 2008)

I am curious. To the people who are planning to vote McCain / Palin...

What makes you think they are going to be different than the current REPUBLICAN administration?

Does the current administration represent your idea of what a REPUBLICAN administration should be? If not, why?

McCain and Palin have gone through great trouble to SEPARATE themselves from Bush, and claim the image of CHANGE for themselves.

I just can't believe it. It's the same old Ford Pinto just with a new paint job and fancy wheels.

You suckers are going to buy the Ford Pinto again.


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## minimama (Sep 9, 2008)

I have put off answering this post to see what eveyrone had to say but now will throw out a couple of my own views.

I am a Republican because in my opinion, this party stands for the morals, values, family, and beliefs I have. I feel that as a member of the Republican party, I have a strength of country that the Democrats simply do not display to me. A strength of moral courage, and a strength of God, I never have seen or felt in the Democratic party. Maybe it is there, but Obama is not proving it with his words or actions, in fact he just supports my feelings further. Telling us that we as a country we do not know the Bible? How is that helping his cause or our Country?

I feel that the Republican party stands behind this country better than the Democratic party ever has. The Republican's seem to at least try to do what is best for the country as a whole, and the Democrats appear to only be thinking of their party. How can we give our legislators a raise? Well, easy enough, just hike taxes. No biggie. Our taxes are higher than they have ever been only since the Dems have taken over the house. Blame the Republicans all you want but check the facts.

If this country is to be strong again, and go on to be the thriving country it once was, that everyone looked up to, you can mark my word, it will be because a Republican did it.

And, I feel and believe, that Sarah Palin has it in her to be that Republican. Yes, I will vote for John McCain, but even more so, for Sarah Palin that might have to succeed him. I have complete faith in her abilities to fix anything she can while in office. And, take no prisoners along the way.

This is why I am a Republican. I have a backbone, I have a spine and I will stand my gound against terrorism without whining. And most of the people that take off and run for Canada during the draft are Democrats. I will stand here and fight and be proud.


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## Keri (Sep 9, 2008)

I look at both canidates to see who benefits me most. I generally vote republican, but I've voted democrat when the person most suits me. I like McCain becuase he's planning on making adoption easier for people in the US to adopt US kids. Obama wants to make it easier for people to put their kids up for adoption. I hope to adopt a child in a few years (I have one healthy one and plan on having another, but wish to give a kid whose less fortunate a good life). So this topic is important to me. Also, with Obama wanting to tax anyone who makes over 200,000 (which I'm assuming small businesses also), I could potentially lose my job that I love becuase they can't afford to keep me. I do agree with Obama on a few matters, but most of my agreement lies with McCain. That's why I vote republican. I'm middle class (probably lower middle class), but I choose a canidate who reflects my own opinions.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 9, 2008)

So republicans,,,

How are you going to pay for the war that Bush lied about to start??? No new taxes,,, really? How then???? I am really curious about that one.


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## minimama (Sep 9, 2008)

I can tell you how I would do it, but I am not in office, however, I also feel that Sarah Palin would do the same and it is another reason I support a McCain Pallin ticket.

I would be goign through all government spending and all programs and be cutting all unnecessary spending. There are billions of dollars being spent each year for stupid programs and useless surveys and the like. There is enough wasted that by cutting those, we could fund what is needed in the Middle East.

Besides that, we could always cut the pay to the Democrats in office, they aren't doing anything but complaining anyway.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 9, 2008)

I am a Republican because in my opinion, this party stands for the morals, values, family, and beliefs I have. I feel that as a member of the Republican party, I have a strength of country that the Democrats simply do not display to me. A strength of moral courage, and a strength of God, I never have seen or felt in the Democratic party.

Lets go back to McCain living with Cindy before he even asked his wife for a divorce... very moral..Or the same from Rudy Guilliani or Newt Gingrich. Your republican morals and honor seem to be a lot different than mine.


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## minimama (Sep 9, 2008)

I never said that every single Republican is perfect. I said that the party as a whole has the morals and values I believe in. I do find it amusing that you just keep going back to one thing. LOL Yep. it was a bad mistake, shall we start to list the moral mistakes made by Democratic party leaders? I don't think it necessary, really. Everyone is human, we all make mistakes. The question is why are we Republican, and I stated my case.

Edited to add: I did not mean to offend and realize that the last line of my post here was taken offensivley so I do appologize and have removed it.

Thank you.


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## Jill (Sep 9, 2008)

It seems like our Republican members have lot of positive and hopeful things to say and share -- and in a nice way. It's inspiring to see so much common ground.

I hope these responses have answered the OP's initial request. Seems to me like they have and beautifully so.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 9, 2008)

No MiniMama,,, I do not think that Republicans are more moral than democrats,,, even if you guys keep telling everyone that and patting yourselves on the back...

And if you do not believe me, take into consideration the fact that there are more Democratics in prison, in rehab, on drugs, and on welfare.

Nice, where did you get that fact?


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## bingo (Sep 9, 2008)

minimama said:


> IAs a whole, Republicans tend to be more morally sound. And if you do not believe me, take into consideration the fact that there are more Democratics in prison, in rehab, on drugs, and on welfare.


Just checking the forum on a break here I am shocked






Ok come on now that has to be a joke right. I can not believe you actually believe that.





That is just as silly as me saying keep in mind most bible thumpers happen to be the most morally unsound people I have met. If you do not believe me check out the amount of them in prisons and on drugs and on welfare.





Now let me clarify I do not believe the above statement just using it as an example to point out how totally ridiculous the statment " fact that there are more Democratics in prison, in rehab, on drugs, and on welfare" truly is.





I have to add I respect your choice to be a PROUD Republican but to try and paint an entire party as immoral while painting another one as the utmost in moral is just not fair.


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## tagalong (Sep 9, 2008)

> As a whole, Republicans tend to be more morally sound. And if you do not believe me, take into consideration the fact that there are more Democratics in prison, in rehab, on drugs, and on welfare.


I agree with *Bingo* and *Crabby Chicken*... with all due respect, that is the kind of unsubstantiated, bizarre, let's-just-throw-it-out-there-and-see-if-it-sticks statement that is only designed to antagonize. Does everyone in prison, in rehab, on drugs and on welfare have to declare a political allegiance before they are incarcerated, rehabilitated, stoned or pick up a welfare check? No. There is no way to back up such a comment.

It sounds like something Rush Limbaugh would intone as he sat at his mic stoned on oxycontin - and not the facts and issues that are important for such a crucial election...



... whether one is a Republican, a Democrat or a One-Eyed One-Horned Flying Purple People Eater...


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## Reijel's Mom (Sep 9, 2008)

minimama said:


> Besides that, we could always cut the pay to the Democrats in office, they aren't doing anything but complaining anyway.


I vote we cut ALL politicians pay!!! How much of taxpayer dollars goes towards paying the saleries, benefits, security, etc for ALL of these folks in office. Seriously!


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## Marnie (Sep 9, 2008)

Hey Jill, I'm actually still sitting here, shaking my head in awe, wondering why people even began to believe what they are told by Mc Cain. He hasn't proven anything in my eyes, I hear people talking a good talk on here, but the republicans who are in office don't seem to walk a good walk. But I'm still listening and trying to learn. It'd be interesting to know if all you guys think Bush did a good job too. Or is he just a mistake that slipped into the white house?


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## horseplay (Sep 9, 2008)

It seems you have formed an opinion and your mind is made up so really no sense in instigating this any further.


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## Jill (Sep 9, 2008)

> Hey Jill, I'm actually still sitting here, shaking my head in awe, wondering why people even began to believe what they are told by Mc Cain.


Marnie --

You said you wanted reasons, and you were given many sincere reasons. Some of them by people who thought you were honestly interested in hearing why we feel as we do. Shame on me for thinking you might truly be asking for input vs. material you feel you can say you shake your head in awe / dismay over.

Since you seem to want to slip the gloves off, one thing that amazes me is that so many Americans can put faith in Obama -- a man who spent 20 years listening to his religious and moral leader, the hate spouting racist, Rev. Jeremiah Wright. People do NOT choose a moral and religious leader unless they are aligned in their heart with what that leader preaches...

Thank goodness for what the polls currently reflect and let's hope the McCain / Palin lead continues to grow.

Jill


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## Marnie (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm sorry, Jill, I shouldn't have been so snide. I just meant that I don't believe everything I'm told. I've lived to long to just believe what I hear, I have to be shown. I don't know if this makes sense or not, it does to me. I do believe in some of the ideas that are listed on here, most of them actually but if they could become true, it'd be a great country again. I also believe that no administration can turn our country around by itself, it'll take everyone pulling together. I actually wish their was not the two parties, I also don't think only one person should be president, why not have a group to run the country, it's to much to expect of one person, the congress, etc doesn't seem to have alot of power at times. I wish that everyone would just get together and work together to make all these idea's come true. "I take it that people who want to vote the Mc Cain/Palin ticket accepts and likes Bush and I guess this is what I don't understand, can't people see what has happened to the country, it won't change if these two get in, they talk and tell the people what they want to hear but that doesn't mean it's a what they'll do, they will just carry on the Bush policies and to me, it Hasn't Worked, Period, that's why I'm wondering if the people who do like the republicans policies, believe Bush and his people have taken the country in the right direction, because i see it as a mess. I couldn't sleep, had to get up and come back here and ad this. Oh, and Mc Cain has voted against everything for yrs that he is now claiming to be for, that's what I mean when I say I have to be shown, words are hollow." I just have a hard time trusting Mc Cain, He's also voted against womens health care for 20 some yrs, his wife inherited a hundred million dollars (News Week) how can they possibly know what common people go through. And Palin took all the money for the so called Bridge to no where and spent it on other things and she still has not answered any questions from the public, this should be an interesting race.

I'll crawl back under my rock now.


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## CyndiM (Sep 9, 2008)

Marnie, your thoughts about a group of people running this country is just what we have. The congress and senate have more power than the president does.

They can over ride his veto and he is done. He can *NOT* change a law just because he wants to, only congress and the senate can change or make laws. He can recommend or make his wishes known but he can not do anything on his own.

I will also adress the comment in a past post about WMD. George W Bush was *NOT* the only person in this world who believed Sadam Hussen had them! Both of the Clintons, Al Gore, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Madalin Allbright, (and many world leaders) to name a few ALSO believed he had WMD (fact). If he could bury jet fighter airplanes in the desert (fact) he sure as heck could have buried 55 gal drums in the desert and/or shipped them to Syria.


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 9, 2008)

You have got to be kidding OH! And where would you go to get this kind of dirt? All we need to do is look at all the lies from Bush to know this is a fallicy. And it was McCain that said the jet was "sold" on ebay by Palin. May not have been a direct lie but it sure wasn't the truth.







minimama said:


> As a whole, Republicans tend to be more morally sound. And if you do not believe me, take into consideration the fact that there are more Democratics in prison, in rehab, on drugs, and on welfare.


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## minimule (Sep 10, 2008)

I am a Republican because this country was formed to be a FREE country. The Bill of Rights was written because the founding fathers knew that at some point someone would try to take certain rights away from us. They were very smart people.

I am a Republican because we believe that if you want something you need to work hard and earn it. You shouldn't be "paid" using hardworking people's money to sit around on your lazy behind and do nothing for yourself.

I am a Republican because I want to make my own decisions about which doctor I want to use. I also want to be able to go to a doctor when I need to. (If our medical system needs so much help why do a lot of Canadians cross the border to use our current healthcare system?)

I am a Republican because I don't want to live in a Socialist country. Russia doesn't sound like a lot of fun. They tell you where you will work, when you will work.........

I vote Republican because I want to keep this a FREE country.

Obama can't even do an interview without his "handlers" writing a script for him and them telling whomever is interviewing him to "stay with the script". He can't answer how he truly feels or his true identity would be found out.

Sorry Dems. I don't trust your candidate as far as I could throw him. He has no clue how to run anything, especially one of the strongest countries in the world.

As far as WMD....did they not find a HUGE stockpile of chemicals used in WMD. Sounds like proof to me. I actually like George W. He is a Christian man that isn't afraid to cry with a wounded soldier. He isn't afraid to pray in public. He is someone I would like to meet at some point in my life.


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## CyndiM (Sep 10, 2008)

Minimule, you said it all and better than I ever could.


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## Jill (Sep 10, 2008)

minimule said:


> I am a Republican because this country was formed to be a FREE country. The Bill of Rights was written because the founding fathers knew that at some point someone would try to take certain rights away from us. They were very smart people. I am a Republican because we believe that if you want something you need to work hard and earn it. You shouldn't be "paid" using hardworking people's money to sit around on your lazy behind and do nothing for yourself.
> 
> I am a Republican because I want to make my own decisions about which doctor I want to use. I also want to be able to go to a doctor when I need to. (If our medical system needs so much help why do a lot of Canadians cross the border to use our current healthcare system?)
> 
> ...


SO well said!!!! Thank you


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 10, 2008)

Has anyone been watching Obama being interviewed on the O'Reilly Factor?


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## Jill (Sep 10, 2008)

Obama might be hoping not


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## Bassett (Sep 10, 2008)

OhHorsePee said:


> Has anyone been watching Obama being interviewed on the O'Reilly Factor?



Yes I have. Only the one last night though at 9:45 I started watching. I thought it was hilrarious. He could do nothing but stutter and sputter last night. He certainly can't make a statement on his own without coaching. Yes, If I was Obama I certainly would wish no one saw it.





Tonight they are in Alaska with Sarah Palin. Can't wait to see that.


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## littlesteppers (Sep 10, 2008)

Well hello Marnie..good question..why would anybody vote for McCain/Palin..

Well you said you lost your job due to jobs going to overseas..well IF Obama wins get ready for much more if this.

What do you think where employers are going if they get taxed 50 percent of their profits..

Fred Thompson said it best..the tax increase will Not affect you..IF you don't eat, drink or buy anything..what do you think who will pay at the end for a tax increase on the rich?? Its like taking it on ONE side of a BUCKET of water..





All the increase on tax Obama propose on the rich will not even scratch the surface on his spending..

his heathinsurance for example..will cover all ILLIGALS in this country..

And if you like what the Senate does please vote for Obama..since it is majority Democrate..you have a preview of what would be coming!





Since Mars and Jupiter has not send any Embassadors..we don't need anybody to represent the world!


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 10, 2008)

minimule said:


> I am a Republican because this country was formed to be a FREE country. The Bill of Rights was written because the founding fathers knew that at some point someone would try to take certain rights away from us. They were very smart people. I am a Republican because we believe that if you want something you need to work hard and earn it. You shouldn't be "paid" using hardworking people's money to sit around on your lazy behind and do nothing for yourself.
> 
> I am a Republican because I want to make my own decisions about which doctor I want to use. I also want to be able to go to a doctor when I need to. (If our medical system needs so much help why do a lot of Canadians cross the border to use our current healthcare system?)
> 
> ...


I don't believe that the Democrats would make the U.S. not a free country so that argument doesn't truly stand up.

With regards to your health care system, ask any Canadian if they would want your system and I am absolutely convinced that each and everyone one of us would say "no way!". You seem to think that we aren't allowed to chose our own doctor, where did you get such an idea???? Who said Canadians couldn't go to a doctor when they need to? Seems to me that is what is happening in the U.S. for some since they can't afford the high insurance rates. Why do Canadians cross over for certain non-life threatening surgeries? Because they have the money to pay and they don't want to wait for non-life threatening surgery. We all live in a society of "I want it now" and if you have the money to do it and want to spend your money that way, that's their choice when that option is avaible to them and the U.S. makes that available and your doctors profit by it. It's the almighty dollar....

I think that both your parties have what it takes to run a country and it boils down to who can do it best. Slamming one or the other just muddies the waters and dirty politics by either side is not condusive to letting you make an informed and non-emotional choice.

Bringing religion into chosing your candidate is very dangerous. Religion has no place mixed with politics. Look at the mess in the middle east when they do that. You should make your choice based on the non-religious issues. Yes some are morale issues but everyone has their own set of morals, atheist have morals too, so do Protestants or Catholics, or Muslims, or Baptists or whatever. Our countries are so diverse with people of all faiths, of all skin color, that we should not be blinded by certain limitations. Your choice should not be because one was a POW, their have been many of those in the history of the U.S, does that mean they are all qualified to be President? and what does that have to do with the economy? Also your choice should not be based either on one candidate being charismatic and popular, nor that one is a mother of 5, nor because one is the first african american candidate. I am truly taken aback by some of the things I have read in various threads here. My question to each of you is, aren't you interested in making an informed choice based on the "issues" that touch your lives? Lets say you are a working woman, would you not look at what each candidate is saying that would benefit you in your situation? If you are unemployed because where you worked the company or plant closed down, would you not look at each candidate and see what plan they have to get jobs back? or if you can't afford Health Care would you not look at each candidate and see what they are offering as a solution and see which one you think would work best? Make an informed decision, whichever or for whoever that might be but do so in a way that makes sense and don't let your emotions give you tunnel vision. I know that is what I have decided to do regarding our election here in Canada. I don't like either the Conservative leader (present government) nor the Liberal leader so I decided to look at what they are offering, and I also decided to think for myself and not listen to the attack ads that our present government has out towards the Liberal party. I find those ads insulting to my intelligence. I can think for myself thank you very much and I don't intend on being swayed, one way or the other by the rhetoric that each side is throwing at each other. I decided to inform myself so that I can make a rationale and informed decision as to which way to cast my vote. At this point, after doing alot of reading, I still don't know who I will vote for in the end but what I do know is that by the time election day comes I will vote having informed myself of the platform of each candidate and will vote with my head and try to keep my emotions out it.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 10, 2008)

Obama is going to tax companies and corporations 50%???????? Wow, where have I been, I hadn't seen that yet.

and others will say that McCain will give such heavy tax breaks to the companies who will make huge profits and give to their shareholders who will get richer.

I believe both statements are not factual or accurate.


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## Basketmiss (Sep 10, 2008)

Way to go Minimule!! You hit it right on the head..


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 10, 2008)

This young man sums it up.



Fran


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## Bassett (Sep 10, 2008)

OhHorsePee said:


> This young man sums it up.



OMG Fran, I got goosebumps and tears in my eyes when that young man yurned and walked away. Thanks for sharing.


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## Basketmiss (Sep 10, 2008)

Thanks for sharing that Fran, it gave me goose bumps and a great feeling that this man stood up and said it...


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## Pepipony (Sep 10, 2008)

I dont see how anyone can affiliate themselves with a party anyhow. They all pander to special interests, some to more of a degree than others ( like the republicans) I dont like how Reps say I have no choice about my body. I dont like how Dems want to give people handouts. I dont like how Reps spend spend spend raising our deficit, then gripe gripe gripe, when its time to pay the bills ( meaning raising taxes) I dont like how either party is more into telling us what is wrong with the other one, and not enough telling us what they stand for. I dont like how either party spits out 'facts' that are BS and how we just lap it all up, so long as they are in 'our' party. We dont complain when our party lies , thats ok since the other guy does






Basically, I dont like hypocrits. Its not, do as I say, not as I do in the grownup world. Maybe back in junior high.


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## minimule (Sep 11, 2008)

"Bringing religion into chosing your candidate is very dangerous. Religion has no place mixed with politics. Look at the mess in the middle east when they do that. You should make your choice based on the non-religious issues. Yes some are morale issues but everyone has their own set of morals, atheist have morals too, so do Protestants or Catholics, or Muslims, or Baptists or whatever."

I didn't bring religion into this. I simply stated that I like George W. because he IS a Christian. It's just one of the reasons I like the man. In reality, our Forefathers were very religious men. That's why they wrote it "One nation, under God". It's Dems and Athiests that have banned God from politics. In my own opinion, that is one of the reasons our country isn't as strong as it once was.

I never said you weren't allowed to go to the doctor when you need to. I stated that I want to keep that privilege here.

You seem to like to twist anything that is said into an argument. Marnie asked WHY and I told her why I am and do. After all.....I do live in a FREE country!


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## sedeh (Sep 11, 2008)

> I am a Republican because this country was formed to be a FREE country. The Bill of Rights was written because the founding fathers knew that at some point someone would try to take certain rights away from us. They were very smart people. I am a Republican because we believe that if you want something you need to work hard and earn it. You shouldn't be "paid" using hardworking people's money to sit around on your lazy behind and do nothing for yourself.
> 
> I am a Republican because I want to make my own decisions about which doctor I want to use. I also want to be able to go to a doctor when I need to. (If our medical system needs so much help why do a lot of Canadians cross the border to use our current healthcare system?)
> 
> ...


Well said!! I don't normally post regarding politics but I am conservative and vote mostly Republican. I'm definately going with McCain this year! My friend and I butt heads sometimes over politics. We were just talking a few weeks ago about our votes, I was only a luke warm McCain fan at the time but frankly Obama scares me! We were talking about all the money that goes to countries that don't even like us and why doesn't someone use that money to help our own National debt....then low and behold, McCain brings up that very fact at the Republican convention! Way to go!! I like the idea of less government and lower taxes. I like that he wants to cut wastefull spending....and I think he's got the balls to do it! I really don't like the idea of paying for more welfare services.....I work too hard for my middle income money! I really like Palin too.....she is such a breath of fresh air.





Fran...thanks for the link. It was great.

As far as the current Bush admin goes......give the guy a break!! He has had to face more problems in his admin than most. He's only one man and his hands are tied much of the time by Congress and the Senate. I recall watching TV for hours as they presented the "evidence" regarding WMD.....it was quite impressive. I was convinced! I think Bush, Congress and Senate were too.......but now they make it sound like it was all Bush! Grrrr.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 11, 2008)

Couple things-those talking about religion and our Founding Fathers may want to do a bit of research on the subject: http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/dispatc...hers_quote2.htm

Secondly, after watching what I can find of O'Reilly's interview with Obama, even O'Reilly seemed impressed with him. From his Column:

"Like him or not, you have to give Barack Obama credit for waging a smart, focused campaign. Destroying the Clinton machine was a major achievement and so was putting together a successful convention in Denver. Obama is now firmly a part of U.S. history, no matter what happens in the presidential election.

The problem some Americans continue to have with the Senator is that he is long on charisma but short on detail. This frightens some voters. Who the heck is this guy, anyway? So when Obama finally agreed to speak to me this week, specifics were on my mind.

First, the man. The Barack Obama I witnessed is self-confident, determined and driven. He was acutely aware of his surroundings from the moment he entered the room. He looks you in the eye and touches your shoulder. He understands how to connect one-on-one.

As far as philosophy goes, Senator Obama is convinced that the federal government should be in control of income distribution and, to some extent, should regulate the free marketplace. That is a classic liberal position, and Obama promotes it well.

The Senator also believes that poor Americans have a basic right to free health care and monetary supplements from the government with no strings attached. The American substance abuser, for example, would derive the same benefit as a hard working, laid off worker would. Again, classic liberalism. No judgments made regarding entitlements.

So, if Barack Obama does become president, there will definitely be change. His left-wing base will demand it, and he will come through. You can decide if that's change we should believe in, but keep in mind that the unintended consequences of government interference in the marketplace are impossible to predict. Free markets have a way of chafing under government imposition.

On the foreign policy front, Obama has convinced me that he is tough but cautious. He rose up quickly because he vehemently opposed the Iraq war. But now I see a man who understands the victory that has taken place in Iraq. I don't believe he wants to screw that up. I could be wrong.

After going mano-a-mano with Obama on television, I am also persuaded that he is a sincere guy-that he wants the best for all Americans. He's an ideologue, but not a blind one. He understands that his story is incredible, and, I have come to believe, he is grateful to the American system for allowing it happen.

It is true that we don't know whether Senator Obama has the ability to solve complex problems, but you can say that about all presidential contenders.

Like most politicians, Obama has used guile and good luck to accumulate his power. He can be ruthless, kind, unfair, and generous. In short, he's a real person trying to achieve an unreal position-that of the most powerful person in the world.

God help him."

http://www.billoreilly.com/newslettercolumn?pid=24183


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## Sonya (Sep 11, 2008)

> I didn't bring religion into this. I simply stated that I like George W. because he IS a Christian. It's just one of the reasons I like the man. In reality, our Forefathers were very religious men. That's why they wrote it "One nation, under God". It's Dems and Athiests that have banned God from politics. In my own opinion, that is one of the reasons our country isn't as strong as it once was.









very well said!


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## Pepipony (Sep 11, 2008)

Please tell me exactly how and when the Democrats have tried to ban God from Politics? Are you meanign from the rhetoric that politicians spew ( like when they want someones vote) or from everyday Washington life? To me, just because W says he is a Christian, doesnt make him one. And if he is, with his actions, I wouldnt claim him as one anyhow. Do as I say people, not as I do.



Example, Getting onto Russias case for invading another country, that Russia needed to follow the UNs lead. Like W would neeevvvverrrr do that or go against the UN


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## Jill (Sep 11, 2008)

*Lowrise *-- O'Reilly may have been more impressed with Obama than he expected to be, but something tells me, O'Reilly doesn't like him enough to vote for him. I'll admit Obama came off a little better during the interview than I anticipated, but I had low expectations and it would be a lie if I said I was impressed (go figure)


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## Reijel's Mom (Sep 11, 2008)

Pepipony said:


> I I dont like how either party spits out 'facts' that are BS and how we just lap it all up, so long as they are in 'our' party. We dont complain when our party lies , thats ok since the other guy does


Very, very true, and this thread is evidence of that.


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## Pepipony (Sep 11, 2008)

Some months ago a ladys daughter come up preggers at 16. Good family, church going, everyone works, pregnancy was just a thing. All the ladies aruond here flipped out. OMG how could this happen? OMG she cant possibly go to church!! Etc etc. Went to a funeral and it seems this poor Mom and daughter were all the rage, guess people forgot it was a funeral.

So now Palin comes along, and she is THE cats meow because her daughter is preggers and she is such a great mom. Heck, being a Mom makes her a shoe in for being able to handle a vice presidency.

Hypocrits. All these dang hypocrits make me nuts. Do as I say people, not as I do.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 11, 2008)

Pepi, that's so sad for that lady and her daughter. What a way to react at a time when they both needed friendship and support.


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## Jill (Sep 11, 2008)

I don't think you can call her a bad mom because her kids may have made some mistakes. Some moms here have kids who've made mistakes -- some of "our own" have kids that have gotten pregnant as minors, drink, use illegal drugs, do poorly in school, commit crimes, etc. Are they also bad moms? Since we all know that all a parent needs to do is explain to their kid how to behave and they will do as they are told and advised...

[SIZE=12pt]But most importantly, Palin is up for *Vice President*, not a Nanny position.[/SIZE]


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## ozymandias (Sep 11, 2008)

You have to remember that there are people at all levels in each party. Those far, far right, those far, far left etc. Then there are millions of us who fall in the more moderate middle of each party. I'm a republican. I believe in a hand up not a hand out. I believe in less government not more. I came from a socialist country (England) and don't want to see that happen here. But, that said I'm also pro choice and I do not want to see creationism taught in schools. I couldn't possibly vote for Obama. Seems all he wants is to take and give. I'm also in the camp where I've disliked Bush from day one. Is it important how the rest of the world views us..yes. It's very important how we "fit" into the global view with regards to our economy, exports, all trade and our own security knowing when we ask for "help" that there are nations there willing to step up. Bush did a lot to damage that. I think McCain/Palin will be a refreshing change to the "good old boy network".


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## Miniv (Sep 11, 2008)

ozymandias said:


> You have to remember that there are people at all levels in each party. Those far, far right, those far, far left etc. Then there are millions of us who fall in the more moderate middle of each party. I'm a republican. I believe in a hand up not a hand out. I believe in less government not more. I came from a socialist country (England) and don't want to see that happen here. But, that said I'm also pro choice and I do not want to see creationism taught in schools. I couldn't possibly vote for Obama. Seems all he wants is to take and give. I'm also in the camp where I've disliked Bush from day one. Is it important how the rest of the world views us..yes. It's very important how we "fit" into the global view with views to our economy, exports, all trade and our own security knowing when we ask for "help" that there are nations there willing to step up. Bush did a lot to damage that. I think McCain/Palin will be a refreshing change to the "good old boy network".



In the grand scheme of things I agree with your views, Dana...... I am not a Republican, but an Independent, and I tend to lean to the conservative side. I also believe in the "hand up and not a hand out.......and in less government - not more". My belief in abortion is confusing.........I believe in allowing it for the first trimester for certain circumstances......after that, I am always wondering why people don't bring up the OPTION FOR ADOPTION????

I believe in presenting both views of "creationism" in schools.......the Biblical and the Scientific. We have presented both to our own daughter and it CAN be done.

I believe in protecting our environment without being fanatical about it.

My main negative concerning Bush is his policy regarding our Borders and being lax in regard to our illegal alien problems. Considering the priority of the "war on terrorism", you'd think he would have cracked the whip down on that one. I'm sure there was a political reason behind it, which shouldn't have been an important one........considering the circumstances.......

As you stated, there are people who are not far Left OR far Right...........Guess that's where I fit.


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 11, 2008)

Mary Lou, I was a working mom. I even went to college and worked while I was mom to two boys. They are happy, healthy, productive individuals that I love with all my heart. I see no difference if Sarah Palin's hubby parents the children than if she did. These are different times and I am sure her children are so very proud of their momma. Her hubby ain't shabby looking either! Snort snort!

Fran


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## Jill (Sep 11, 2008)

Something else I want to say to those in other countries who chime in over and over again about our politics:

I hope you really know as much about your own county's politics as you think you do about the politics of the USA.
I admit I have about 1% as much interest in Canadian politics as the members from there have in ours. Maybe that should be considered flattering vs. annoying. I don't know.


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## horseplay (Sep 11, 2008)

I don't see how anyone can say Palin is a bad mother, I will assume that your children have never make a mistake so that makes you a "good mother" and a good judge of someone you don't know? To me saying she should be home with her children is a sexist point of view, I just don't see how this has anything to do with being a good VP.

I have to agree with Jill, I am going with "it's flattering" but I will admit a tad "annoying" at times



.


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## minimule (Sep 11, 2008)

I hope you really know as much about your own county's politics as you think you do about the politics of the USA.
I admit I have about 1% as much interest in Canadian politics as the members from there have in ours. Maybe that should be considered flattering vs. annoying. I don't know.

Yeah Jill! I was trying to come up with a reply to our Northern ButtIns but you said it very well.


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## Sonya (Sep 11, 2008)

> And for people say that they had worked when they had children. The BIG difference is S. Palin puts her career FIRST, then her children.. She HAS to do that to have a VP job.. that is why I totally disrespect her.. I know too well with families that have mothers that have placed careers first.. It is totally wrong and totally unfair to children.. they need their mommies


Wow, very sexist statement....last I heard men are capable (at least some) of raising children...what about male's who wish to adopt children , whether they be single or have a male partner...I suppose they are not capable??....because children need a mommie????



> I hope you really know as much about your own county's politics as you think you do about the politics of the USA.
> I admit I have about 1% as much interest in Canadian politics as the members from there have in ours. Maybe that should be considered flattering vs. annoying. I don't know.
> 
> Yeah Jill! I was trying to come up with a reply to our Northern ButtIns but you said it very well.






...problem is those in other countries hear what their country wants them to hear, which is normally not the facts. Of course other countries want Obama, it makes perfect sense. To the U.S. neighbors up north...as much anti-U.S. stuff I hear on this forum anymore, I assume their media is behind it all, and everyone (since everyone simply despises the U.S.) would love to see the U.S. fail....well if Obama gets in, you might get your wishes.

**edited for spelling....I actually spelled it right, but not the word I was looking for. If you previously read this post...you know what word I typed wrong...spell check wouldn't of even helped me with that one...haha...don't know what I was thinking**


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## SWA (Sep 11, 2008)

Wow ML.




I almost don't even know what to say to that???



It truly does make me wonder though, if that is what makes one lose respect for a person....does it not beg the question then... "Where was Hilary when Chelsea was growing up?" Surely, she too was making that same choice for "a career" at the same time frame of age in her child's life. Where was Chelsea's father too, for that matter? Both, highly driven toward their "careers" while their "family" rode the ride along with them. Same as practically the majority of families in the rest of this country. Sad, yes...but still the case for the most part, in this country, in this day and age.


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## littlesteppers (Sep 11, 2008)

You know I do agree..with Tanya..I bet their are many countries wishing Obama be presidents..Russia and Iran are way on front..






today is 9/11..it has been 7 years..Praise God nothing happened so far and God help us if we go into "diplomacy" to keep us safe..our soldiers understand it..Freedom is NOT free!!


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 11, 2008)

WOW as rude as you have been to people who are talking politics from other countries,,, I thought it was beneath you to debate with them Jill? You sure keep making comments. EVEN to the person who has taken years of her life to make this board for us to use.

I do not like Palin because I think that McCain picked a woman to fill the void for the Hillary voters. So he picked a really rude talking woman that would seem like a man, I guess. Again the reason I don't like her is one,,,, because she already has an ethics problem she needs to clear up ,,, Two she has a 4 month old baby that she had,,, now she should take care of it, there is not reason that her husband should be the Mommy figure. Three, she is busy telling everyone else that they HAVE to have their babies even if they would be born to a place that can not take care of them or even abuse them. She doesn't think that people should have that CHOICE. Four, she is bragging that she is a big hunter woman,,, wow,,, making an animal suffer for fun... that is nice. That really isn't anything to admire. Five, the fox news network says since Alaska is near Russia,,, that makes her able to deal with international problems.. Yeah,,, we are not all that stupid.


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## horseplay (Sep 11, 2008)

I am pro choice myself but that is not my point, my point would be I noticed you do not like the fact that Palin is pro life which would lead me to believe you are pro choice but on the other hand you don't like her because she kills animals? So if I were pro life I could say you are o.k. with killling babies but not animals? ummm...



.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 11, 2008)

Horseplay,,, yes if I woman feels that she can not take care of a child that may be abused or not taken care of, she should have that right. Not me and not anyone else should tell her how to live her life. No one would make that choice for the heck of it. AND yes, killing animals for fun is a sick thing to me. If you need the food because you can't afford it that is another thing. But people that brag because they can shoot and animal, a lot of time letting it run in excruciating pain for the fun of it, that is wrong.


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## Marnie (Sep 11, 2008)

I think it's time I chimed in again. I just watched an interview with Mc Cain and then the same questions asked of Obama. I know theirs nothing I can say to make anyone think differently because it seems to me the so called Republicans, or most of them on here, seem to think they know it all and they are absolutely right, no two ways about it. I think theirs alot of grey area in politics, it's not all black and white. I see both sides as having good views but the biggest problem I had and still have is that I don't trust Mc Cain. I'll say it again, he has voted against all these issues for many yrs that he is suddenly now for, his record speaks for itself. And Palin is another story. And come on now, you have to know he only picked Palin because she is a woman, don't you guys ever really stop and think about things? Just because they stand up and tell of all the beautiful, lovely, wonderful things the will do for you, don't you doubt them? Do you think maybe they are just trying to get elected?? At least Obama comes across as a very honest, down to earth person, I don't agree with all of his ways either but at least he seems like he's trying to tell it like it is. Their is one thing I really hope after following this thread and that is that if their are any young people on here, that they have enough sense not to believe all these things that you guys have been listing, over and over, don't you think their may be one thing right about Obama's campaign? He isn't right on one thing? Talk about being close minded, I am surprised that people are actually like this. Back a few pages, a couple of you said I HAVE a CLOSED mind, well, like my Grandpa Johny used to say "I beg to differ with you." I will still watch the debates before I decide for sure and I will certainly be sure to cast my vote this year. I know I asked for reasons why you are Republicans but I guess I don't know any more than when this started because so much of whats been said is just so one sided and lop sided and strange. Back to my rock for awhile.


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## Gini (Sep 11, 2008)

Crabby-Chicken said:


> because she already has an ethics problem she needs to clear up ,,,


*[SIZE=18pt]????????????[/SIZE]*


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## Sonya (Sep 11, 2008)

> I don't agree with all of his ways either


Just because someone is backing one candidate certainly does not mean they agree with everything that candidate says/does...Marnie you just said it yourself in the above quotes. They are choosing who they feel best represents their view in a nutshell. You ask the question on "Why", many have given you their honest heartfelt opinions...which are not the same as yours or others, that does not make them wrong. I don't feel you were really looking for an answer to "Why" because you won't accept any of the answers since they differ from your opinion..



> Just because they stand up and tell of all the beautiful, lovely, wonderful things the will do for you, don't you doubt them? Do you think maybe they are just trying to get elected??


Politicians are all (including your beloved Obama) lying, rotten, scoundrels that will do just about anything to get elected....our job as voters is to decide which dirty, rotten, scoundrel to put in the white house, which they feel will do the best for the country as a whole.....many many people, looks like slightly over 50% of the U.S. believes McCain the best scoundrel choice at the moment......







> Also, Matt lives about 10 min. from me.. I am sure he gets all the major U.S. TV stations as I do.. So he can see U.S. News just as easy as I can to be informed on both sides of the politics..


Well I'm not sure what channels your watching...but obviously not the same as me! I take much of what I get from TV with a grain of salt anyhow...I prefer to get my info from reading unbiased sources.

Well, in a nutshell, to me I don't really give a rat's behind what the people in Canada think of either of the candidates, they are not the ones voting...I and my fellow American's are. So unless you can vote in the U.S and you live here....I don't really care what the neighbors up north think, their opinions are not important to me. I do value other American Voter's opinions, even if I don't agree with them.


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## tagalong (Sep 11, 2008)

> Yeah Jill! I was trying to come up with a reply to our *Northern ButtIns* but you said it very well.


*Bolding mine* - with all due respect, is that really necessary? Do we have to be as rude and full of bashing as the Republican & Democratic campaigns have been?

And yes - I can tell you all about Canadian politics as well. I guess I do not understand why some of us are being sneered at for being informed - for being interested - and most importantly - _for caring._





I used Trudeau's quote in another thread... and I'll use it again as an example of why it is not only Americans who are interested and concerned about the Presidential election...



> Living next to the US is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt.


And that was said almost 40 years ago. It still holds true.

When the President is referred to as the Leader of the Free World, why would inhabitants of the Free World (which is more than just the US) not be interested and/or concerned? Every twitch & grunt - every "Mission Accomplished"

- sends out waves that wash over and affect many countries in one way or another...


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## Marnie (Sep 11, 2008)

Go ahead, I don't really care what you say about me any more. I will say one more thing, he is not my beloved Obama, see, that's exactly what I mean, you guys are so opinionated, I don't care any more. And, he isn't my beloved Obama, I don't like any of the candidates, I wish we could throw them all back in and start over. Keep it up, bashing the Democrats, after all, they are the evil weevils of the world, aren't they! Out to get everyone, aren't they! I know politics is a touchy subject, I just forgot how crabby people can get on this forum and why I seldom post anymore.


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## Sonya (Sep 11, 2008)

> Keep it up, bashing the Democrats, after all, they are the evil weevils of the world


Reallyl, I thought it was the Republicans that were getting the majority of the bashings here.

Politics, just like religion is always a touchy subject, as sometimes all that gets accomplished is hurt feelings...I don't think anyone was really getting crabby, defensive maybe, but not crabby....I mean you asked, they told you and then you tell them that they are wrong...of course people are going to be defensive about that.

My Dad always said, opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one and everyone thinks theirs smells the best. It is words to live by


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## horsehug (Sep 11, 2008)

Marnie,

I did not think your question was mean spirited. I took it as a sincere wanting of an answer.

I know how heated talking about politics or religion gets, so I usually stay out of it, and hope people can tell how I feel about things by the way I live my life as opposed to having to say too much...... in other words the thing about "Example is the best teacher". Of course that does not work as well on the internet as if you live close to people in your daily life.

At any rate, I did want to say that while it is hard for anyone to agree totally with any one candidate, I do think some things we can compromise on usually........ but for me sometimes there are other things that are absolute deal breakers. Both McCain and Obama have some of those deal breakers for me, that keep me from being able to vote for either one in good conscience.

I totally agree with you Marnie, that I wish we had other choices!!

Susan O.


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## Neil (Sep 11, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> The WORLD knows so much about U.S. is because they are scared of another 4 years of warmongering and world turmoil.. The want peace.. Sick of all the killing and innocent people dyeing because of the wars U.S. starts.. and butts their face in..


I too want peace, but I believe in the old West African proverb: "Speak softly and carry a big stick” used by Teddy Roosevelt.



> What Palin said tonight with Charlie Gibson proves she IS a BUSH with lipstick.. Do we really want more years of world turmoil? It scares the heck out of people.. So you see Jill.. the WORLD is scared of the next 4 years if McCain/Palin gets in..


What specific comments are you referring too?



> And for people say that they had worked when they had children. The BIG difference is S. Palin puts her career FIRST, then her children.. She HAS to do that to have a VP job.. that is why I totally disrespect her.. I know too well with families that have mothers that have placed careers first.. It is totally wrong and totally unfair to children.. they need their mommies.. and her time FIRST.. She should of raised her kids then had her career.. OR had no kids at all.. if she wants a full time career..


Mary Lou, I must take exception to these comments. They are truly sexist. WOW!

No one ever said Bush couldn’t do his job because he had two daughters while he has been in office. No one ever said Bill Clinton couldn’t do his job because he raised a daughter during his eight years as our President. No one ever said that Kennedy couldn’t do his job while he fathered and raised two children while he was in office. This just goes on and on. If, as you say, “She HAS to do that to have a VP job.. that is why I totally disrespect her..” then you must also feel the same about Obama. If elected he will have to raise his two daughters while he is in office. Will that make him a bad President? I think not. I must also say that our First Ladies don’t just sit around and watch soaps and eat bon bons. They end up working very hard traveling all over the world representing our coutry while still raising their children.

All of my adult life I worked in the Los Angeles and San Francisco bay areas These are areas of the US where the cost of living is very high. It is very difficult for any family to try to raise a family on only one income so most families have both parents working for latchkey kids. Do the kids suffer for this, I think not. Unfortunately, not all families can afford to live in rural America and have only one working parent.

Almost all of my working career (45 years) I worked in the hi-tech field. This is not a field these days where you work a 9 to 5 job. You often work 60+ hour work weeks. Because people have to work these hours does not make them bad parents. It is not the time you spend with your children but the quality of the time you spend with your children.

I worked for and with many top professional women and they took both their jobs and families very seriously. I had one employee that worked for me and I later worked for her and let me tell you she took her job seriously and was one of the best mothers I have known. During this period of her work life she not only worked but got married and later had not one but three children. She did later reduce her work hours and eventually quit to be a stay at home mother. In addition to her work and children she also ended up with a 3 hour a day commute to work which started to take its toll on her.

I might also say that I have known couples where for some period of time only one person worked and it might not have been the father but is the mother and the father stays home and takes care of the home and children.

I guess what I am saying is that you can both work and take care of children. It seems that no one thinks as you seem to do when it is men working and having children.


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## CyndiM (Sep 11, 2008)

Well evidently I was a bad mom because I worked!



Some of the time I worked two full time jobs and most of the time I worked a full time job and a part time job. ( The ex wouldn't pay his support and at that time there was no way to enforce that except to have him thrown in jail. As if that helped. NOT)

One is a teacher, one owns his own business and the third one is the manager of a auto dealership service dept. Are they perfect? No, but they are good citizens.

As far as the world hating the USA yep they do! Mostly because of what they hear from their media. Of course it can't possibly be biased we all know our own media isn't.





Just let a disaster happen in another country. Who gives the most help the fastest? Who does the rest of the world expect to help out and give money, food, clothes etc? That is not to say other countries do not help it is just that the USA is generally the first to send aide and it is also the country to give the most! Do we get paid back NO in fact as soon as we get them back to a standing position we are told 'Get out we don't like you, we don't want you here'. 'Oh but don't forget to send us more'. Most of the time we aren't even thanked. Do we stop? No we will go right back the next month if they should have another disaster. How many countries have rushed to our side to help when we've had earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes?

*And since we are such a terrible country in the world's eyes why are there so many people from other countries trying to get in here? Why aren't our borders being overrun with people trying to get out of here?



*

My final question... why is it only republicans are biased and closed minded and all republican candidates are the scourge of the earth?


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 11, 2008)

Gini

She has a charge against her that she alledgedly abused her power as Govenor to try and force her ex brother in law out of his job as a state trooper. They are looking into it.


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## Sonya (Sep 11, 2008)

I just had to come back to this comment:



> Four, she is bragging that she is a big hunter woman,,, wow,,, making an animal suffer for fun... that is nice. That really isn't anything to admire


I hope you don't eat meat....because if you buy beef/chicken/pork/eggs/milk from a supermarket....those animals are made to sufffer WAY WAY more than animals that are hunted, in their natural habitat, where they are left to roam and be FREE their entire lives. There is nothing inhumane about hunting when done properly and legal, however 500 chickens stuffed in a 40x30 pole barn is inhumane! 150 beef cattle stuffed in two acres with manure up to their bellies for years is inhumane! Whether for sport or food, when hunting is done properly and legally their is absolutely nothing inhumane about it....it is needed to control population in most cases. And the fees that hunters pay for licenses, etc....contribute more to conservation than any one source.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 11, 2008)

Like I said Sonya I understand that people need it to survive. The ones that brag about are the ones that are sick to me. That is the way I feel. When someone is showing off the horns that they have sawed off the skull of a beautiful animals.like they have done something neat.. that is no different that cutting off a trophy off a person that can't defend themselves. Sorry.


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## Sonya (Sep 11, 2008)

I don't see how she is putting her career first over her children. She is a politician, same as Hillary, McCain, Obama, and Biden.....do you think they all put their careers over their children?

A man can and does in many cases make a better parent than a woman...just because she carried it in her womb does not mean she HAS to be the major caregiver or that she is better at it for that matter. I work with a gentleman who has sole custody of his two young girls, has since the youngest was in diapers...believe me, they did not need their mommie, she was a poor excuse for a parent. My sister and her husband have raised 3 wonderful children with her being the breadwinner (and no, not home alot working a real estate business) while my brother in law took charge of the house and children. I work with two women who are the sole breadwinners in their homes while their husbands stay home and take care of the children. In many homes, there is usually one parent that is the major caregiver....where does it say it HAS to be the woman? I thought all these years, this was the stigma that woman were wanting to avoid?

I'm just confused why someone would dislike her on the basis alone that she is not the major caregiver, I'm baffled to be honest. Obviously she has probably been the major income for her family, so I'm sure she ultimately works to feed her family, as we all do. ( I don't know to many people who work for the fun of it!). I suppose they'd only be eating fish if it wasn't for her.


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## CyndiM (Sep 11, 2008)

No Mary Lou, That is not what is being said, at least not what I meant, I had to work and it could be said I put my 'career' first. I did not. I was forced to work as I did, to keep a roof over our heads, food on the table, and clothes on our backs. But admittedly I was gone more than I was at home, *all* of my children's teenage years.

It could very well be said that ANY working person who has children are putting their careers before their children. Especially those persons who want to get to the top of the corporate ladder or be the dean of a university. And what about actors and actresses?. ALL politicians could be charged with putting their career first it is the nature of the job. If you are only a part time politician you will never get anywhere or re-elected. Did Margaret Thacher, Goldia Mier or Queen Elizabeth put their careers first?

To only criticize Sara Palin in my opinion is unfair. I know how much I missed my daughter's volleyball games and my son's football games and baseball games but my bosses would not let me take time off, nor could I afford to, to attend these things. I'm sure as a mother she feels the same as I did. Heck she probably has seen more events like that than I ever did. She has said she and her husband have gone to their son's hockey games etc.


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## minimama (Sep 12, 2008)

Ok, here I go again stepping into it deep.

Marnie, personally I am surprised you can even still post here. To pose a question and try so hard to convince everyone that you just sincerely wish to be informed and learn and then to turn on everyone that tries so hard to be of help to you, wow, If I were you I would just be embarrassed for myself. People were genuinely trying to help you and give you good solid reasons and you have just bashed us all. Too bad too because you had opened up a good opportunity for people to learn and expand their knowledge base.

Crabby Chicken, you do not have to agree with me on anything ever in your entire life, but at least when you make a statement make an informed one. You just keep spewing the same thing over and over again. Come on, get some new material. And stop paying so much attention to your TV.

And to the lovely wonderful people in other countries (and I do mean that sincerely, love you all to pieces) that have decided it is their place to put their noses into our voting, which is a private personal thing, totally out of line folks. Our decisions may affect you down the road, but we in America are the ones that have to live with these decisions on a daily basis and fix it if we make a mistake. You have no say here what so ever. We do not do this to you when it is time for your elections and your voting, you just need to leave us alone to do our work. Do you think we would have voted in most of the world leaders that are in power? NOT!

The truth is, McCain is not perfect, Obama is not perfect and we here are stuck with yet again picking the lesser of the two evils. More often than not, we end up voting "Against" someone than "For" someone. Sad but true.

I personally, am voting "For" Palin. I like her that much. My choice, my business, my decision. But, it is the first time in many years I have voted "For" someone.

Really people, before you come on here and just spew filth, do some research, find out the facts and not from anyones media, they are all biased and many are paid off to say certain things, it is just ridiculous.

Ok, soapbox is back in the closet.


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## Neil (Sep 12, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> See I knew it would be taken the wrong way of what I said..
> *I said…*
> 
> And for people say that they had worked when they had children. The BIG difference is S. Palin puts her career FIRST, then her children..
> ...


Because you did not quote anyone I am kind of guessing that you are talking to me.

What I was saying in a long winded way is that you can have a career and take care of children. I believe that you can do both and not place one over the other. I have seen it done over and over again for the last 50 years.

I tried to stay clear of Sarah Palin specifically because I don't know her personally and I doubt anyone on this forum knows her personally. I have no reason to believe that she can't/doesn't give her family all of the proper attention.

And, if she is elected our first woman Vice President I would guess that her husband would end up being a stay at home father. I have seen this work many times before and have no reason to believe that it couldn't work this time.

If anything set me off in your posting it was probably your "mommies" comment. Would you ever had said "It is totally wrong and totally unfair to children.. they need their daddies.. ?" Only you can answer that and I will keep my guess to myself.

Please don't take any of my comments personally. They are meant generally as to how I feel.


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## SWA (Sep 12, 2008)

How many times are we told on this very forum, that if something matters enough to us to see "change", to get involved, make the effort for change to happen. For example...go to the convention to review all the issues of this registry we all know and love




and then make it a point be present to cast our vote, or better yet, run for committee seat or above.

In doing so, it takes away from our families there too. Though purely on a "recreational" level, for the majority of us who knowingly will never see our horses are our means of food on our tables. (I know some are able, and that's not my point, LOL). But, aside from our horses, most also have jobs in addition to their families. Still, it is often emphasised to "get involved" if we want to see things changed from the current status quo.

That is all this "Hockey Mom" has ever done, only her level of "getting involved" is beyond that of any "recreational" level, it is likely far beyond what any of us have ever done for ourselves, truthfully speaking.

If she is to be "disrespected" because of her desire to "get involved" with issues that matter to her, then how can any of "us" be viewed any more respectable to take a notion to "get involved" in "horsey politics"??? I agree, they are far different areas of involvement....but honestly, the point I'm trying to make truly is equally relevant.

Are those that are able to "get involved" to be just as shunned for taking valuable time and committment away from their families too, in hopes of "making a difference" in our "horsey world"?


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 12, 2008)

Jill said:


> Something else I want to say to those in other countries who chime in over and over again about our politics:
> 
> I hope you really know as much about your own county's politics as you think you do about the politics of the USA.
> I admit I have about 1% as much interest in Canadian politics as the members from there have in ours. Maybe that should be considered flattering vs. annoying. I don't know.


mmm getting hot in here and I am not having a hot flash, lol.

Jill, yes we Canadians keep abreast of foreign policies and world news. In this day and age when the world truly is smaller as many countries have agreements for this and that, that many of our lives are affected not only by our own goverments but other countries governments and their policy choices as well.

I believe that the main difference between Canadians and Americans, since our cultures are so very similar, our freedoms are very similar, etc. is the fact that Americans are not as interested or don't find the need to get more involved in being aware of news on the world front. I don't mean this in a negative way or in a condenscending way either but the perception is that the U.S. is more self-centered in this regard because of their "super-power" definition in this world, as a nation that leads in many things.

I am sorry if you don't appreciate other countries voicing their opinion about your presidential race but as many people have said it affects us as well, not to the level it affects each American citizen but it does affect us big time. Your foreign policies can either bring peace or cause a mess, such as we have seen in the present administration. What I wish for the American people is a leader who is diplomatic but also strong enough if need be to act if faced with threat. What I don't want to see is someone (male or female) with such tough talk, no diplomatic skills, to heck with them attitude and bullying type of mentality. That does not sit well with Canada nor with many other countries. It reminds me of the saying "Do as I say, not as I do" and nobody likes that, people fight that kind of an attitude.

Also the mentality that seems to be prevalent by some debating on this thread that everyone wants to move to the U.S... sorry but that is arrogance talking and truly not a factual statement but more an emotional one. I do admire your patriotism for your country. We have patriotism for ours. You think you live in the best country, we believe we live in the best country - hence the reason we each live in our own countries


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## minimama (Sep 12, 2008)

Danielle, just out of curiosity, how many peopel do you have moving into your country each year from other countries? As opposed to how many the US has?

This is what prompts us to say people want to live here. The amount of people trying so hard to get in and many that die trying. I never hear of that in your Country. And quite frankly, I wish I didn't for ours either. Wish people would just stay in their own countries for the most part and work on making them better. And no, I don't mean make them like the US, I just mean fix our own problems in our own countries, US included.

Calling us arrogant is kind of personal by the way. If we didn't care about other countries you all wouldn't get all the help you do everytime someone needs us.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 12, 2008)

minimama said:


> Danielle, just out of curiosity, how many peopel do you have moving into your country each year from other countries? As opposed to how many the US has?
> This is what prompts us to say people want to live here. The amount of people trying so hard to get in and many that die trying. I never hear of that in your Country. And quite frankly, I wish I didn't for ours either. Wish people would just stay in their own countries for the most part and work on making them better. And no, I don't mean make them like the US, I just mean fix our own problems in our own countries, US included.
> 
> Calling us arrogant is kind of personal by the way. If we didn't care about other countries you all wouldn't get all the help you do everytime someone needs us.



I used the word arrogance when someone thinks that citizens of other countries than the U.S. all want to move to the U.S. Canada allows many immigrants on a yearly basis and Canada does have one of the most multi-cultural and multi-linguistic people living in one country. I believe the size of each of our countries dictates the number of immigrants allowed in each of our respective countries so saying one lets in more than another would have to take that factor in. I am sorry if you would prefer your county to let less immigrants in. I feel blessed that Canada allows the numbers of immigrants in that we do as it only enriches the mosaic of our country and it educates me in various cultures, languages, etc.

Nobody said you didn't care about other countries. Many countries when called upon or in times of need help countries that need it. Nobody has a monopoly on this and I don't think anybody was suggestion that the U.S. wasn't a very generous country like many others are as well.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 12, 2008)

You asked about our immigration - here is for 2007 because 2008 is not done yet. It will give you an idea but as I said we have less cities than the U.S. and I believe that your countries mass (size) is larger...

Canada admitted highest number of Immigrants in 2007

Sunday, March 23, 2008 - by superuser

More articles in Canadian Immigration

Discuss (0 posts) Printable View

In 2007 Canada accepted the highest number of immigrants (temporary and permanent residents) to date. This is based on the preliminary data released by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) on March 14th 2007. In 2007, Canada admitted 429,649 permanent residents, temporary foreign workers and foreign students. This number is more than 60,000 higher than it was just four years ago.

Canada's fast growing economy means labour demands will also continue to grow in the next few years. The most recent Census indicates that in the past five years, Canada's population grew by 1.6 million. Of that 1.1 million was he result of immigration. The country is on track to becoming 100 per cent dependent on immigration for growth. By 2012, immigration is expected to account for all net growth in our labour force.

Honourable Diane Finley, Minister of Canadian Citizenship and Immigration said that these numbers show that our immigration program is responding to Canada's needs, particularly our economic needs. Labour shortages are being felt in sectors across the country. Immigration is helping to meet labour demands and to ensure industries are able to remain competitive in the global economy.

"As immigration becomes increasingly important in supporting Canada's growth, we are bringing in people with the right mix of skills to address both short and long-term labour market needs," Minister Finley added. "At the same time, we must also help ensure the success of immigrants by helping them settle and integrate into Canadian society."

Last year, Canada admitted more temporary foreign workers than in recent years to respond to the labour market needs of Canada's economy. A 12 percent increase in the number of temporary foreign workers accounts for much of the increase in the overall number of temporary and permanent residents admitted in 2007. The statistics also show a 4.6 percent increase in the number of foreign students admitted in 2007.

Over 251,000 permanent resident visas were issued, which is within the target range of 240,000 to 265,000. Only 236,689 visa holders had arrived in Canada by year's end. CIC controls when visas are issued, it does not control when people use them. Permanent residents may decide to use their visa at any time during the period it is valid.

For further information (media only), please contact:

Douglas Kellam

Spokesperson, Media Relations

Communications Branch

Citizenship and Immigration Canada

613-952-1650


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## CyndiM (Sep 12, 2008)

Danielle, Since I was the one who first stated that people from other countries wanted to get in here I feel I should address your comment about my arrogance.

I was not stating that to be arrogant I was simply stating fact. There are thousands of people every day who want to immigrate to America from all over the world and even some who want to be here badly enough that they do it the illegal way.

I was also NOT demeaning your country OR any other, for that matter, who have people trying to immigrate. I was only trying to defend some comments that have been made about how terrible our president is and what world bullies we Americans are.

The world does not have to like him, but, just maybe some of us Americans don't see him as the horrible monster some of you do. Is he perfect? No.


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## Jill (Sep 12, 2008)

I 100% agree with those of you who are calling the line of negative comments about Palin sexist. It sure is!!! Obama has young children, too. What's the difference? I find Palin to be an impressive and admiral person, and she makes me feel even more proud to be an American woman.

And, I said what I feel on the Canadians who seem to be way too interested and too poorly informed about our political issues. So what if you listen to US news along with your own? Spend a couple of days tuned to Fox News, which does present both sides, vs. NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CNN -- those are the WORST. If you did that, at the least, you would see there is a huge bias. Listen long enough, and I think you may come to the same conclusions I have regarding which "news" sources are the worst in terms of bias.

The USA is the most powerful and influential Nation on the planet, so for that reason, citizens of other Nations are bound to feel like they care about who we elect. However the vast majority of them are not qualified to have a truly informed opinion and are not eligible to vote in our election.






----

_PS -- I want to let it be known that I appreciate that Mary Lou, as owner of LB, is unbiased in that she allows people who have opinions different than hers, on politics, horses, etc., to post their opinions without retribution, deletion, or edits. Couldn't disagree with her more on this issue, but it impresses me that she allows that to be expressed. Thank you, Mary Lou



_


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 12, 2008)

It is well known that Fox news is one of the worst news sources and that they are "extreme" in reporting. They are not respected very highly so I would take NBC or ABC or CNN before Fox as they are in the bottom of being totally factual and telling the entire truth on matters.

Since having non-Americans debate and post on the subject cause some of you angst I will respect your wish and will refrain and allow the mud-slinging tht is going on with the republicans and the democrats on this forum. I always though this was an open forum on subjects period, guess I was wrong. I do hope when the time comes should the republicans win and they want to drill for oil in Alaska and must get Canada's views and approval regarding the pipeline , etc. that you won't take offence if a debate ensues in it because it does affect us or will we be told basically we have no business to discuss it and just "do as we say, not as w do?". Enough said

To those of you Americans who are looking at "issues" and basing your choice on this, I applaud you. You are making informed and non-emotional decisions. That is what I intend to do with our elections here. May the best man/woman lead your country.

The floor or thread is all yours Jill, enjoy.


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 12, 2008)

Crabby-Chicken said:


> Gini
> She has a charge against her that she alledgedly abused her power as Govenor to try and force her ex brother in law out of his job as a state trooper. They are looking into it.


Crabby, her brother-in-law used a taser on his step son who was 10 years old for fun. He also admitted to it. Surely you do not believe this is ok?

Fran


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## Jill (Sep 12, 2008)

> To those of you Americans who are looking at "issues" and basing your choice on this, I applaud you. You are making informed and non-emotional decisions. That is what I intend to do with our elections here. May the best man/woman lead your country.
> The floor or thread is all yours Jill, enjoy.


Danielle, as you know, I'm not personally going to entertain a debate on US politics with you.

However, if you've read the things the McCain / Palin supporters have had to say and can count us as uninformed or unclear about why we've formed our opinions then oh well. I do not think we come across as being uninformed


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 12, 2008)

No it was not okay. But they made it seem like the brother in law did it like it was a punishment or abuse. The child wanted to see what it was like. The father did it to show him how horrible tasers can be. Was that right, probably not for a child. But allegedly going behind a persons back to put pressure on his superiors to fire him is wayyyy not right either.


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## anita (Sep 12, 2008)

The growd in Germany was already there at a rock concert with 4 bands. Obama camp gave free beer, sausage and directed the people how to act and cheer with more beer and american flags they handed around.

It was a presidential speech and not allowed under american law.

Obama didn't visit the soldiers in military hospital in Germany because the press was not allowed in and he prefered to go shopping.

Next day the press there was not good but our press told us different.

In France was no one there, so in England but the press here told us differend.

Source: I read German, France news every day. BTW, Angela Merkel and Nikolas S. are good friend with President Bush. If you hear otherwise its not the truths

Is this what you meant Jill?


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## Sonya (Sep 12, 2008)

> Canada admitted highest number of Immigrants in 2007Sunday, March 23, 2008 - by superuser


I just wanted to clarify this statement from Danielle, yes it is true in 07 Canada admitted the highest number of immigrants....in Canada's history. See below stats:

*U.S.:*



> The nation’s immigrant population (legal and illegal) reached a record of 37.9 million in 2007.


full website Immigrants in the US 2007

*Canada:*



> The 2006 Census enumerated 6,186,950 foreign-born people in Canada


full website Canada statistics

both figures where taken from each countries 2006 census. Your statement just made it seem as though you were saying that Canada accepted the most immigrants...wanted to make sure everyone was informed properly. Below is some numbers regarding size of both countries.

*Canada's size vs. U.S.*



> Canada is one of the largest countries in the world, second only to Russia in territorial size. It has a total area of 9.9 million square kilometers (3.8 million square miles).


link regarding Canada



> United States is the third-largest country in the world in area behind Russia and Canada. It has a total area of 9,629,091 square kilometers (3,717,792 square miles).


link regarding U.S.


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 12, 2008)

Crabby-Chicken said:


> No it was not okay. But they made it seem like the brother in law did it like it was a punishment or abuse. The child wanted to see what it was like. The father did it to show him how horrible tasers can be. Was that right, probably not for a child. But allegedly going behind a persons back to put pressure on his superiors to fire him is wayyyy not right either.


Honey, that was abuse. Abuse of his tazer and abuse on a minor child. He was the adult and should have acted like an adult. Not to mention an officer of the law.

Fran


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## Laura (Sep 12, 2008)

Danielle_E. said:


> It is well known that Fox news is one of the worst news sources and that they are "extreme" in reporting. They are not respected very highly so I would take NBC or ABC or CNN before Fox as they are in the bottom of being totally factual and telling the entire truth on matters.
> Since having non-Americans debate and post on the subject cause some of you angst I will respect your wish and will refrain and allow the mud-slinging tht is going on with the republicans and the democrats on this forum. I always though this was an open forum on subjects period, guess I was wrong. I do hope when the time comes should the republicans win and they want to drill for oil in Alaska and must get Canada's views and approval regarding the pipeline , etc. that you won't take offence if a debate ensues in it because it does affect us or will we be told basically we have no business to discuss it and just "do as we say, not as w do?". Enough said
> 
> To those of you Americans who are looking at "issues" and basing your choice on this, I applaud you. You are making informed and non-emotional decisions. That is what I intend to do with our elections here. May the best man/woman lead your country.
> ...


[SIZE=12pt]Just so you know Danielle, I welcome discussions from you and ALL forum members on ANY Subject we choose to discuss



[/SIZE]


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## minimule (Sep 12, 2008)

"It is well known that Fox news is one of the worst news sources and that they are "extreme" in reporting. They are not respected very highly so I would take NBC or ABC or CNN before Fox as they are in the bottom of being totally factual and telling the entire truth on matters."

Well known where? Amongst the Democrates maybe. Where do you get your information? Fox News is one of the best sources. They show both sides of any story, or at least try to. At the DNC and RNC, Fox affiliates were told NOT to show any response to any of the candidates. Even though their reporters might be in favor of one over the other. However, MSNBC and NBC, all of their reporters were cheering and shouting for Obama. One of their reporters stated, "he gets a tingle down his leg any time Obama speaks".......that is fair and unbiased?

CNN only shows the "bad things" that the American soldiers are doing in Iraq. They refuse to report any of the good that is coming out of that.


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## Gini (Sep 12, 2008)

Crabby-Chicken said:


> No it was not okay. But they made it seem like the brother in law did it like it was a punishment or abuse. The child wanted to see what it was like. The father did it to show him how horrible tasers can be. Was that right, probably not for a child. But allegedly going behind a persons back to put pressure on his superiors to fire him is wayyyy not right either.



What about the driving a state vehicle while drunk!!!! I have *[SIZE=12pt]0[/SIZE]* tolorance for any person driving while drinking!!! One of my experiences in Alaska as I'm usually there 3 months out of the year. I went into a mall in Anchorage with my Granddaughter and there was a vacant store filled with people laying all over the floor. I questioned my son (whose a State Trooper) later about what that was all about. He stated that it was a round up of drunks driving and walking the streets unsafely (staggering) put in a empty store and then taken to holding cells until they sobered up. They were then let back onto the street without charges being filed. This was the city police dept. I'm not critizing them as this is a huge problem in Alaska. The brother in law who swore to uphold the law and the last time I looked drunk driving was against the law. He has been CAUGHT driving drunk and in a

STATE vehicle. *Can you just imagine what the people of Alaska would think if he killed someone while driving drunk in a STATE vehicle!!!!* We have had police officers here in Tucson caught,suspended pending investigation,then fired. Can someone tell me why it should be any different for this person. When Palin saw that nothing was being done as Governor she stepped in!


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## littlesteppers (Sep 12, 2008)

Gini said:


> Crabby-Chicken said:
> 
> 
> > No it was not okay. But they made it seem like the brother in law did it like it was a punishment or abuse. The child wanted to see what it was like. The father did it to show him how horrible tasers can be. Was that right, probably not for a child. But allegedly going behind a persons back to put pressure on his superiors to fire him is wayyyy not right either.
> ...


Weeellll...if I read right this was 22 years ago..about the same time Obama was puffing his marijuana


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## Gini (Sep 12, 2008)

littlesteppers said:


> Gini said:
> 
> 
> > Crabby-Chicken said:
> ...


Both drinking and smokin the Weed kill brain cells! Just the candidate for the President Rght!!!!!


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## horsehug (Sep 12, 2008)

One thing that makes me so sad is the nastiness from each side about the other in politics.






So I have a hard time supporting any that do it. (Which I TOTALLY realize is most of them!)

But I wanted to say that I watch PBS news. The News Hour with Jim Lehrer is truly an excellent program. I loved watching both the Democratic and Republican conventions on it.

Susan O.


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## tagalong (Sep 12, 2008)

> The USA is the most powerful and influential Nation on the planet, so for that reason, citizens of other Nations are bound to feel like they care about who we elect. However the vast majority of them are not qualified to have a truly informed opinion and are not eligible to vote in our election.


But how do you decide who is qualified to have an opinion and/or who is allowed to speak it? Freedom of speech holds true for many countries - not just the US. Suggesting that others should not have an opinion seems to run a bit contrary to that...

And although *Jill* will not debate with the likes of me



- I feel that I am well informed. Those around me are Rebpublican, for the most part - and love to debate. I also get a well-rounded view of things on my own as I want to look at things from all sides. I have even listened to dear Rush - to hear what his latest uproar is...







> Obama didn't visit the soldiers in military hospital in Germany because the press was not allowed in and he prefered to go shopping.


*anita* - that is not true. When it was discovered that was an erroneous report - the commentators pushing that "juicy" little item dropped it like a hot potato. And yet - it still lives on...



> Just so you know Danielle, I welcome discussions from you and ALL forum members on ANY Subject we choose to discuss


Thanks, *Laura* - it is a *forum*, after all - without defined limits. Thus all sides of an issue can be discussed...

As far as the immigration issues go, I understood that* Danielle's *links said that Canada had the highest immigration ever for Canada - and not world-wide - but perhaps the clarification was a good idea...

Immigration levels are usually determined by the population of the resident country - not land mass. So according to the links, if roughly 1 out of every 5 Canadians is an immigrant...



> The nation’s immigrant population (legal and illegal) reached a record of 37.9 million in 2007.


We see that the number of immigrants in the US is more than the entire population of Canada... (33,390,141 as of July 2007)

With the US population at about 301,139,947 (as of July 2007) ... approximately 1 in every 7.9 people in the US is an immigrant but as it is hard to estimate the number of illegals here IMO that number is probably much lower - 1 in 6? Who knows...

_Both_ countries open their doors to immigrants... as best they can...


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## Gini (Sep 12, 2008)

We all have our own opinions and this is the way it should be. I for one thank this forum and ML for letting this "debate" continue. Political conversations can get quite heated at times but I learn from all that care to get into this discussion. Thank you all from other countries and especially those in the USA that are participating and voiceing their opinions.

Like some of the lyrics taken from one of Lee Greenwoods songs "I'm *PROUD* to be an *AMERICAN* where at least I know I'm free!


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## Gini (Sep 12, 2008)

littlesteppers said:


> Gini said:
> 
> 
> > Crabby-Chicken said:
> ...


In 2006, before Palin was governor, Wooten was briefly suspended for ten days for threatening to kill McCann's (and Palin's) father, tasering his 11-year-old stepson, and violations of the game laws. After a union protest, the suspension was reduced to five days.


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## joylee123 (Sep 14, 2008)

Jill said:


> > But Jill, I know you like Mc Cain, you've stated it many times and you are one of the ones I wanted an answer from but no one tells me why? I swear, I'm not being a smart alec...
> 
> 
> Marnie, I believe McCain has the vision, decisiveness and experience to successfully lead our Nation. I do not feel Obama does. In my heart, I honestly feel our Nation's welfare depends on McCain being elected and that we will be in a precarious position if Obama is elected.
> ...



[SIZE=12pt]How does free trade help our economy? Seems to me more jobs have been lost here in America since the free trade agreement, whomever implemented it. I am not politically savvy but???[/SIZE]

I guess I feel after the last election when Kerry ran and the republicans voted Bush in for another term









.... it kind of proved to me that republicans vote republican for the sake of voting republican





And as far as only McCain working to free us from foreign oil, I really think at this point we have no choice whomever becomes President. And making Health Care more afforable? Is he going to make sure each physician and hospital stops raping patients for a 3 cent pill that the patient is being charged 3 dollars for? It all sounds great but really.... I think folks need to be a little more realistic

[SIZE=12pt]I guess Id just like to see the country running in the black again, folks having work and no war.[/SIZE]


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## littlesteppers (Sep 14, 2008)

Obama is socialism..coming and living in Germany for 28 years..let me tell you you would not like it..

IF he wins..you will be TOLD what do and when to do it..Germany pays the same for a barrel of oil than we are..yet the price is double/triple as of what you pay here..guess what... TAXES..

Sales tax

Sales tax (also known as value-added tax) has the economic impact of a general tax on consumption that is levied on all private and public consumption. This tax is charged on the sale of goods or provision of services only to the end customer. The tax is normally payable by the company that generates sales. It is thus the responsibility of this company to pass on sales tax to the recipient of its services as a component of its prices. The German Sales Tax Law recognizes two tax rates: the general tax rate, which currently stands at 16% (but will be raised to 19% as of January 1, 2007); and the reduced rate of 7%.

now why is that..because the money for supporting unemployed pple.. (8 percent..the lowest in 15 years)..healthcare..it all gotto come from somewhere..I want to know what you all have to say than..on the taxing the rich..don't you think governemnt want the rich to do good..after all they would be taxed..so good sorce of income?

In Germany there are VERY few small businesses..because its not worth it..government regulates anything.

http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/raw_e/inves...in_germany.html


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## LisaF. (Sep 14, 2008)

Christine - Thank you for posting that - I think we need to hear more from people that have lived in other contries such as Germany, etc. That has really seen how bad things can be.

I for one do not want to be told what I can and can not do.

As you know or maybe you don't. I am really not sure, so I will explain just in case.

My best friend through high school - we don't stay in touch, she really turned out not so good.

But, her sister has been my sister in law for about I don't know 15 years or so.

Well, I have known there mother for many years. I am 44 and I have known her since I was in 7th grade. She will seldom even talk about Germany and when she does it is very sad for me.

She is not ashamed of where she came from as she should not be. But, I do know she had a tough time growing up. I do not know if everyone in Germany is like that or not. I can only go from History and what she tells me of her life.

Ok - can you tell I really think alot of her..lol.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic - I just wanted to thank you for reminding people of how it COULD be if we get the wrong person in office.

I do realize, they are not a perfect person that walks this earth. So, I am not saying McCain/Palin are perfect.

I am saying Obama scares me if he becomes President. I think it will hurt the USA more than we probably can even expect.


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## LisaF. (Sep 14, 2008)

Crabby-Chicken said:


> No it was not okay. But they made it seem like the brother in law did it like it was a punishment or abuse. The child wanted to see what it was like. The father did it to show him how horrible tasers can be. Was that right, probably not for a child. But allegedly going behind a persons back to put pressure on his superiors to fire him is wayyyy not right either.




Crabby Chicken - I have a question for you or anyone that agrees with your statement above.

I am a smoker - now that is embarrassing to admit. I wish I did not have this horrible habit. Someday, somehow I hope and pray to over come this horrible addiction.

Now, to my question - When my children were growing up or my grand children I have now. If they came to me and said I want to know how bad that cigarette taste - or I want to know how bad that cigarette would hurt if I got burned by it.

Am I suppose to EXPLAIN to them or SHOW them?

You know what would happen to me - I would be thrown in jail for Child Abuse. I think he should have been thrown in jail for child abuse. There is no reason good enough for me - for him to use a Taser Gun on a child.

I don't even smoke in my own home when my Grand children are here.

I don't own a Taser Gun so I can not use that as an example - here is another example. I do own a BB Gun- don't laugh - I get stray dogs and I shoot it in the air to scare them away.

What if they wanted to feel the sting of the BB Gun? What should I DO?

I mean seriously, saying the child " wanted" to know how it felt so he showed him how bad it could be?

The list could go on forever- Children are curious about A LOT of things. To we talk to them about it or do we show them how bad it can be?

How does " showing" a child how bad a taser gun feels make since?

Oh, and I would have done a lot more than tried to get the man fired. I would have pressed charges if that happened to a child in my family.


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