# My experiment with oats and a rant against the feed companies (UPDATE)



## Marty (May 31, 2013)

So here’s my disclaimer: I don’t know hardly anything about horse nutrition and have no credentials whatsoever, but I do know horses and how they should look and act and live. This is only my opinion of horse ownership of over 40+ years.

My take on oats: I was mostly brought up around thoroughbred jumpers and race horses long before I settled into Quarter Horses. What were they fed? Oats. I worked as a human slave for a number of performing high school horses and circus horses and what were they fed? Oats and dry bran. So when I began to feed my own big horses, oats is pretty much what I fed with my vitamin of choice, which at that time was Vita Plus, Source, or Drive. My quarter horses worked, played and showed hard and were just fine and dandy on my oat food. Time marched on and then I began to feed sweet feed from a number of companies, but mostly from Purina and Nutrena. Back then, if the contents were in the bag, it was supposed to be in my horses’ stomach. No questions asked.

From time to time I re-evaluate my feed program and make changes if needed. So last year I began to examine yet again what I was feeding the miniatures because some of them began to look a little “off” so I switched up feeds and did another one of my experiments. In doing so I put 4 horses on oats. Yes I know oats are on the sugary and starchy side and it’s carbs but they get so little of it, it didn’t seem to matter. Truth be told, my horses don’t even need food. They are idle, don’t work, don’t show, don’t do anything but employ me as their general caretaker and buttwiper, and eat a minimum of processed food. I know they can survive quite well on just their hay and minerals. But it’s something with_ me_, etched in my brain, my maternal instinct and way I always did things, that says I have to feed my children horse food! I always felt I have to have something to offer them besides their hay. I only use a little food to get them into the barn at night and for something to give them as I greet them each morning so they will like me. LOL- just cup or two per feeding if that much. So why all the hub-bub about what to feed them? Its way out of control.

I first purchased the lowest cost bag I could find at about $15.00 or so. Crimped oats. It was very dusty, way too dusty for me to bother with. The horses would cough as they ate them, so I got rid of that bag. The next bag was whole oats and a couple dollars more. The oats weren’t nice and plump at all but it was “something” to give them.. After that I tried the steam crimped, rolled oats and triple cleaned. No complaints except the price was getting higher and higher. As it turned out, the horses on the oats were fine. Since I have easy keepers and some who are too fat, it reduced the neck and fat pockets on two of the four horses. I did not expect that, but it was a bonus. The hair coats were good, the energy level was there, and no one looked the worse for wear. I double checked with my brother in laws’ vet clinic in Kentucky who work on the most valuable race horses in the world and was also told oats is still also the choice of food after all these years for most of the race horses. It also is good for horses who are prone to ulcers and the easiest food a horse can digest but I already knew that part.

I think feeding horses has gotten way too complicated, scientific, and emotional for us and the feed companies have us on a guilt trip. I need to uncomplicated things. Frankly I’m getting too old to keep buying into the fancy propaganda of the feed companies who are desperate to sell their over priced over packed feed, when they know the horse industry is in the tanks. They can blame the farmer or politics, I don’t care who they blame, but its shameful what they are charging for a bag of horse food. They are forever changing up their recipe and being inconsistent and adding all kinds of newfangled nuggets and the like in a 50 lb bag of feed and will do anything to convince you of it, and don’t forget the recalls. If you let it boggle your mind it surely will. I’m at two points in my life: #1: I am on a fixed income now and stuck on a budget. I can very well still afford my horses but I cannot afford to be stupid and throw good money after bad. The other point I’m at is being fed up with getting so far away from nature and adding all this crap into my horse’s guts when they don’t need it. I think of it this way: There was once life before MacDonald’s’ luscious Big Macs. Now a days people are fat and the obesity problem in our country is at an all time high so its like “If you build it they will come” but in this case its “If we sell it power packed in a fancy wrapper, they will buy.” Did your mother need a special rocket scientist to make you a healthy homemade bowl of soup? Anyhow, disgusted with the whole thing my honest feelings on it is, if the horses aren’t shinny, it doesn’t mean you have to buy a more expensive food or add bird seed and special additives to it. It means to get out a dad gum brush and buy a wormer. And now they need yet another special nugget or pellet to help them digest the food you just paid how much money for? Then why they heck are they processing this stuff if they know your horse needs help digesting it in the first place? They just keep adding more and more stuff. Do these itty bitty equines really need it and are they getting enough of it in the bag? I don't know, so I provide minerals and I fix my own beet pulp so I know they are getting the amount of that stuff I want them to have. That makes the emotional part of _me_ feel better. I really feel at times the feed companies are making fools out of us horse owners because as long as they keep making it, we’ll keep buying it at any price. They are making us feel if we don’t spend twenty bucks or more a bag we aren’t good horse owners and that is not the case here. So feeding my horses everything from soup to nuts and yes plenty of oats over the decades with no horrible results, I think we all need to smarten up.

So fast forward to today: The time has come for me to make the switch so I went to Tractor Supply to see about their oats. They had three kinds of oats, but I about fell over when I saw their whole oats was a whopping $20.99 a bag. Yes I shall now complain about the price of oats! Someone please justify that price? There is absolutely nothing anyone can do to a lousy oat to make it cost $20.99 for a 50lb bag so I left it sit right there on the shelf. Give me a break people, its an oat, not the Hope Diamond. I came back home and stopped at the mountain general store where they sell some cheap off brand horse food from some no-name mill someplace and inquired about their oats. They carry whole oats at $12.50 a bag. At that I said “Gimmee it”. I got home and low and behold, the oats are not dusty as I expected and are relatively plump. Amazing. They would do fine. Let’s face it, oats are as back to nature as we can possibly get. I realize they lack nutrients so I do keep my mineral stations full and always have. I may be adding a vitamin if I think we need something else like I used to do back in the day, but I’m doubtful that will be warranted. I’m getting back to basics, less complications, and going to save a good buck at the same time. Maybe I’ll be back here in 6 months ranting that my oat plan didn’t work out but that remains to be seen. Now if I can just figure a way to lower my bedding cost…….that’s next.


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## chandab (May 31, 2013)

Thank you for sharing.

I'm in some what the same boat, why am I paying for and feeding bagged feed, when most of my horses are normal and healthy, and need little more than hay, water and salt. I do have 3 with special needs; two with Cushings and a senior stallion, so they will get specialty foods; but the others are looking to get back to basics: hay/pasture, vit/min supplement and maybe oats as the carrier. [And, the growing yearlings will stay on their current diet for now.] I'm starting my trial stage as soon as the vit/min shows up; when it does half my normal horses will be going to the vit/min supplement and we'll see how they do on that over the commercial feed (which when you feed the very low end of the recommended amount, and some are fat on that, you might as well go with a vit/min supplement and their hay/pasture).

I'm with you, how can plain old oats cost so much just because its in a bag. Farmers get like $4-5 per bushel, and I think oats are in the 30#/bushel range; so 50# is about $7-8.50. Cleaning and bagging shouldn't run more than a couple dollars per bag, add a couple dollars for profit, and oats shouldn't cost the consumer more than $13-15/50#. So, why do they cost $17 and up for basic oats?


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## madmax (May 31, 2013)

Marty, did you like feeding rolled oats versus whole or crimped oats? I have never fed the rolled, need an opinion please.


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## Marty (May 31, 2013)

The rolled oats or steam rolled are my oats of choice. They are at the pricey end of the oat group for $20.99 here and for that reason only I'm feeding whole oats. . .


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## MajorClementine (May 31, 2013)

Supply and demand. You have more and more feed being shipped over seas, drought nationwide, and more fields turned into ethanol corn fields because there is more money in it. To make it worth while for the farmers they have to up the prices. Believe me, living in farm country I can tell you that no farmer is getting filthy rich off of oats. Also factor in the rising cost of fuel which all the harvesting equipment uses. The cost of everything is just going up and up.

I'm a believer of not feeding sweet feeds. The last thing horses need is more sugar. Why put molassas on it? They'll eat it without just fine. My grandfather raises TB racers and has fed oats and grass/alfalfa hay for 30 years. His horses look great and have high energy. Bright coats, good feet. I think it makes many horse owners feel like they love their horses more if they buy fancy bagged feed that costs $$$. My pleasure riding horses get grass hay and salt/mineral blocks. They get a scoop of oats as a reward after a hard ride or as supplemental feed if I'm legging them up for a big ride or hunt. It's worked for me. And it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. I couldn't afford to feed anything out of a bag every day.


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## Minimor (May 31, 2013)

I have always used oats as the basis for my 'grain' and it has served us well. I always liked whole oats but it is too hard to get here now--the feed mills do not sell it, at least not the ones here in our city--and I don't care to drive 40 miles to one

that does--and so I buy steam rolled oats instead.

Not all our horses get grain--some are on hay only. The show horses, though, and those we are working do get oats. So do the youngsters--weanlings and yearlings if we have any. This past winter I had very poor quality hay--prairie and marsh hay that doesn't keep the horses rounded out nicely, so I have several on a mix of oats and pellets. One stallion tends to lose weight off his top line if he gets only oats and hay, unless it is fairly good alfalfa--so I have him on pellets. The two year old stallion gets oats and just enough pellets to flavor the oats so that he will eat it (very fussy eater!!). A couple fatter mares get 2 lbs of grain, another mare that needs some condition over her top line gets one lb of oats and one lb of pellets per feeding. A couple thin mares were each getting 1 lb of oats 1 lb of pellets and 1 lb of alfalfa pellets per feeding (2x per day). I currently feed Frontrunner pellets, either 12 or 14%. One bag was a mystery--the label was torn off so they did not know which kind it was--it was horse feed but they couldnt sell it without a label--so they gave it to me free! Good deal--the horses are it and I suspect it was the 14% variety, just guessing by smell.

I pay about 8.35 for a bag of oats and $16-something for the pellets. TSC does sell whole oats I believe...but they are at least $13 or $14 (last time I looked) and I refuse to pay that for oats.


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## wildoak (May 31, 2013)

I am blown away by the cost of oats! I fed them many years ago, for about $3.50 a bag lol. Like Marty, I've been through a number of different feed regimens over the years... Some good some not so good. I'm happy with what I feed now, a Bluebonnet 14% pellet, but I fall into that same trap of feeling like I should give them every possible goody.

My neighbor has recently switched her big horses to oats.. They are ridden almost daily and worked pretty seriously, and they look great on just oats and hay plus 24/7 turnout. Sure makes me think about it but I'm paying less for a premium pelleted feed than some of the oat prices. Wonder what .Purina Race Horse Oats are running now?

Jan


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## Marty (May 31, 2013)

Race horse oat are $18.99 here right now Jan!


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## fourluckyhorseshoes (May 31, 2013)

MajorClementine said:


> The last thing horses need is more sugar. Why put molassas on it? They'll eat it without just fine.


I totally agree about not needed more sugar, but from a manufacturing standpoint molasses, oils, and the like are used to reduce dust, improve absorptive capacity of many carriers, and improve the handling characteristics of a premix.

Just something I learned in my Feed Manufacturing class.


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## MajorClementine (May 31, 2013)

fourluckyhorseshoes said:


> I totally agree about not needed more sugar, but from a manufacturing standpoint molasses, oils, and the like are used to reduce dust, improve absorptive capacity of many carriers, and improve the handling characteristics of a premix.


Good point.


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## rabbitsfizz (Jun 1, 2013)

I do not feed oats, I feed barley but is the "same difference" in the end. With this make my own mix. We are told a lot of horse hockey by manufacturers I am afraid, it has ever been so. I have here, in my feed bins, loose cooked flaked barley that has stood for over eight months without a single sign of mould or dust or anything else wrong, so just how long have those bags you buy stood, _before_ they ever got their "best before" tags on them, to get them dusty and yucky? Of course, then, they will need to spray them with expensive preservatives to make them saleable . I do not buy into it, I never have, I have been making up my mix myself for twenty years. Not that many horses, true, but then when we had more, and they were big horses, I used a small cement mixer to mix the feed up. As to special needs, I kept Rabbit alive to nine years after his teeth went merely by putting the normal mix through a blender and putting hot water on it to make it int a porridge. Whatever they tell you, it is NOT "Rocket Science"!!


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## Carolyn R (Jun 1, 2013)

Totally agree Jane, it is not rocket science. I had a huge mental barrier to get past when making a simple food for my dog that she was not allergic to. So many massive issues with her food allergies, way beyond the normal food allergies. Most owners would have put her down. I know that her food may not be up to parr by many a peoples standards, but she is doing great on it. Let's face it, animals get by in the wild on much less than what we have ourselves brainwashed into thinking they need.


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## Marsha Cassada (Jun 1, 2013)

I've been feeding oat groats for nearly 10 years. I buy it at the warehouse that mixes bird food, such as for parrots and carrier pigeons. I am their only horse customer, however.


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## MountainWoman (Jun 2, 2013)

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I used to feed oats and then do my own supplements mixed in and my horse (full size) was the picture of health. When the minis arrived, I switched to a horse feed. I think I'll go back to oats and my own mix of supplements again.


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## jandjmc (Jun 2, 2013)

Wow, Marty, we are on the same wavelength at the same time. Over the last 2 years, I've gone back to more forage based ration for my horses. Now I'm looking at the ridiculous number of very expensive bags I've got in the feed room. Just read a great article on equine nutrition, which discussed (where in the horse) different types of feed are digested and what they do to blood sugar levels and equine ulcer symptoms. I'm going to use up the expensive bags and buy oats, some hay pellets, beet pulp shreds without added molasses, flaxseed meal and a good basic vitamin/mineral supplement. My hay supply contains alfalfa and 2 types of grasses. For the youngsters, they will get more alfalfa to get the protein levels where they need to be. This "simplified" ration should be cheaper and get back to basics.

I, too spent years on healthy full-sized horses fed hay and oats with a vit/min supplement.

Thanks for addressing the owners emotional influences and horse rations!

Julie Mc


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## chandab (Jun 2, 2013)

I know I already posted, but just keep thinking about this.

when I had just the saddle horses, they lived on hay/pasture, salt block and water with occasional treat of grain of some sort, they did just fine on that diet (they are mostly pasture puffs with just leisure rides - the three we still have live on hay/pasture, salt and water and look great, shed out before everyone else too). I got the minis, and for some reason thought they had to have everything under the sun in the feed room; the only thing that changed was the size of my wallet. I'm going to work on getting back to the basics and not have all the extras in the feed room, except for the horses with special needs. I'll pick up oats my next time in town, so they have a little something in their dish to go with their vit/min supplement. I'm anxious to see how this works out. I was going to start with just a couple, but I think I'll start with the six mares that essentially share a paddock, so I don't have to remember who gets what in that pen, nor upset someone cause they don't get anything. [i'll just let them out to pasture, then mix up the other horses meals.]

the owners emotional influences and horse rations! I think this is the big reason my feed room is so loaded full of stuff.


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## Marty (Jun 2, 2013)

At this point I'd like to address sweet feed also. I have no use for it although yet again, I used it for years and nobody died but yes I had horses founder. Maybe or maybe not that was the cause back then, I'm not sure.. But since we have all this newer research in regards to founders etc. these past 15 or so years, I realize the dangers of sugars in the feed and in the grass.

I've had plenty of sweet feed in my tack room, yes.

But how many times have you opened up a bag to find it had an unusual amount of molasses content from time to time? For me, many times I opened up a new bag and there it was dripping with so much molasses that it was too goopy to dig into it with my plastic feed scoop. Maybe this is way off base, but I had my suspicions for a long time it was used to weigh the bag down to acheive the 50 pound goal.


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## Jean_B (Jun 2, 2013)

Never have fed sweet feed. Any animal nutritionist will tell you the "sweet" is put in there to make the owner feel better, and has absolutely no additional or needed food value. I used crimped oats - simply because I have found kernels of whole oats in some of the manure - that some of it may pass through without being digested. I don't find any kernels of the crimped in the manure. And my horses receive regular certified equine dental care.


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## Becky (Jun 2, 2013)

After doing a lot of feed research over a number of years, I came to the conclusion that horses are best on a forage based diet. Horses are meant to digest forages and the less grain we feed them, the better. Grains are high in NSC and sweet or textured feeds are way over the top. I currently am feeding a high quality, alfalfa based pellet to all of my breeding herd. My show horses are on a similar pellet. No other additives are necessary. Just hay products. Fewer digestive upsets, rarely ever a colic case. I like what I feed and it works.

.


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## disneyhorse (Jun 3, 2013)

As with humans, I don't think you can make huge, sweeping disclaimers about one feed program or another without evaluating the individual horse.

While I agree that a non-working "pet" horse of most breeds can get by without grain (concentrates) and subsist on hay only... That might not be the route to go for a Grand Prix dressage Hanoverian in intensive training.

Nutrition CAN be a science. You can break feed down in to calories, fats, fibers, vitamins and everything in between. It very well may be possible that the available hay in your area might lack in protein or something.

When we make blanket statements like "I'm feeding just plain oats and my horses are fine..." Does this mean you're feeding a negligible amount per day such as a cup or are you feeding a substantial caloric amount such as four pounds?

Personally I don't mind "feed from a bag" because it is formulated for my horses that get zero pasture and do moderate work to make sure they are converting calories into muscle... You can contact the companies' nutritionists and they can take your hay analysis and their feed analysis and help you maximize your horses' performance.

But sure, if you've got pets standing around they will look relatively healthy if most of their basic needs are met. Most Americans can get by eating fast food and can live normal, healthy lives. But I'm guessing people who are heavy into athletics or need to watch their appearances like actors can't get by with the same food choices. Many of them will choose supplements and such for the convenience of making sure their dietary needs are met after going to the gym regularly.

By the way, my horse gets far, far more regular exercise and attention to diet than myself... Isn't that the case?


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## Tab (Jun 3, 2013)

You are onto something Marty. I started feeding oats this year because the price of pellets is too dang high. I used to feed patriot pellets, and maintained my horses well on those. I moved out here and its too far from the farmers co-op, so my choices are tractor supply and agway. We have such little grass pasture that I have been sending the horses to "grandma's" house every summer. Now I feed nutrena, but it is as if to prevent colic everything is sold predigested, and I have not been able to get that luster and finish on the horses as in years past. I think they have developed it so that you have to buy and put into your horses twice as much feed, and at $16-$20 per bag we're getting fleeced. I'm with you, though, keep it simple. I'd rather buy a white bag of oats than a $20 50# of filler in a fancy printed bag.


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## BSharpRanch (Jun 3, 2013)

I've fed mainly hay to all my horses for as long as I've owned them. Once in a great while I will add "extras" on an as need basis. I think a lot of the problems that are now extremly common in our horses stems from too much of a good thing.

In the winter my old guys may get some senior feed depending upon their condition. I've had broodmares that get hay with mare/foal vitamins and nothing else. Our attack survivor got free choice burmuda hay, alfalfa twice a day and about a cup of grain with red cell added so that his meds would stick to the grain. He's back to hay only. If my guys are working hard, they get a little grain as a reward. Wild horses are world class athletes that subsist on whatever they find and do very well without all the "extras".


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## fourluckyhorseshoes (Jun 3, 2013)

disneyhorse said:


> Nutrition CAN be a science.


Nutrition IS science. I totally agree with your post. While some horses can look fine with just oats and forage, it does take more than that to create a performing athlete. How do you even know what % nutrients your horse is getting? That's why it takes a Masters or doctorate degree in animal nutrition to formulate feeds professionally. That's just my opinion, do whatever works best for your horse and your budget.

As my Nutrition of Domestic Animals professor always said " Nutrition is a science, feeding is an art. "


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## Shes My Style (Jun 4, 2013)

Nutrition is a science. There are whole fields of research out there on the different areas of nutrition - even how different nutrients effect the system on the gene level. It can be very complicated if you wish it to be, but just because it can be, it does not have to be for the average horse owner.

One thing science has shown is that the horse's digestive system is best set up for digesting forage and high fiber diets. Small amount continuously through the day. Another thing science knows is that hay tends to lose fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E) so if you are feeding that as your main forage source, you should have a vitamin or other food source that supplements those added to the feed.

Over the years I've taken on some extremely thin horses and brought them back to good health. In fact, I'm working on a mini right now. I keep is simple. A free-choice grass hay, soaked alfalfa pellets (slowly introduced to the diet and how much they get is based on weight), a vitamin/mineral supplement, and then a slow introduction to pasture to eventually convert them from a hay diet to a pasture-based diet if the season is right. Slow changes, but otherwise the diet is very simple. No grains. No commercial feeds other than the vitamin/mineral supplement I usually get in pelleted form just for ease of use. If I do have a horse that needs "something more" I will get a fat-based addition for their diet rather than sugar/startch/grain-based.

My horses are not high-performance horses, and there are many ways to get a healthy horse - just like we do not need to eat the same exact foods to still be in great health. But I do tend to agree that people grab sugary sweet feeds more for their "feel good" results rather than real horse needs.


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## Tab (Jun 4, 2013)

Grass. Horses do best on grass. That is truly our missing link here. I keep telling lovey that we need to pasture in the rest of the property. And minis who get accustomed to grass pasture only need a mineral block. (They also need a workout routine.) Winter is much trickier, but to really prevent colic - hay. It is trickier to maintain an athlete. With the rich, man made feeds and supplements, and being stabled much more than turned out, it can lead to problems. I worked at a large boarding barn and have seen it firsthand. Much greater risk of colic and laminitis.


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## rabbitsfizz (Jun 5, 2013)

Nutrition may well be a science BUT it is _not_ _ "_Rocket Science" It is not the hard to work out sciencey secret thing that feed companies would have you believe. Anyone with half a brain can work out a balanced diet for their horse without recourse to all these fancy and expensive bagged feeds that people give them, often drenched in molasses (most pellets have molasses btw, to hold them together, so you need to sit down and read the ingredients list!! there is a website somewhere out there that does it all for you) I use Barley as a base because I have always used it- I use crushed not whole because a lot of whole cereals go straight through as the horse cannot adequately digest the cellulose cell wall- that is the origin of crushing or crimping cereals, but that is personal choice- Oats has a higher fibre ration than barley but I use a lot of hay chaff. My horses are showing and they are popping out of their skins they are so healthy! Grass is, of course, by far and away the very best feed of all- GOOD grass, that is.....again, it does need checking. My brood mares have only grass, they are not fed grain of any kind once the grass is through and they do not need it (GOSH they do not need it- they look as if they are about tho give birth and they have only just done so) If you want to go on feeding bagged feed, that is fine, some of it is really OK and it is very convenient, but you do not_ have_ to do this in order to have a healthy horse.


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## madmax (Jun 5, 2013)

What are most of you feeding very old horses with no back teeth? Besides soaked beet pulp. I have to buy the expensive bag of senior feed, well soaked so they won't choke, which I have had happen when feeding hay (!)


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## HGFarm (Jun 5, 2013)

Marty, I smile at your view on feeding... I have always kept my feed program VERY simple. I have never purchased additives, balancers, vitamins and all the other ridiculous foofoo products they have out there- and now a lot of things are made with soy, which is genetically modified and that's a BIG no no in my book. My horses are on a regular health program, including an annual dental checkup and they get hay, two options of salt, the broodmares get grain and fresh water. The only thing 'formulated' I have ever fed is the Equine Jr or Sr along with the items listed above. My horses have done well while working and in the show ring both. The foals are born strong and healthy. Sometimes the KISS method is the best.

Old horse with no teeth- I had an old mare like this and she was a very slow eater. She was free fed Purina Equine Sr as it's a complete feed and it took her all day to eat her food. She did GREAT on it.


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## LaVern (Jun 5, 2013)

So glad to hear that there are lots of oats lovers out there too. I feed it because that's what my dad did and my grandfather and everybody did. And I suppose also because that is what we can grow. In the spring the old boys would throw in a little flax to slick them off. Also I like to hear the sound of oats when they eat it. I think that to much stuff that melts in their mouths doesn't wear their teeth right. Horses have to chew.

Oats can be tricky when you raise it. Sometimes we have very heavy oats and some time very light. I like light because then I can give them more.

We used to feed a lot of barley to the feeder calves and man was that good beef, but you can literately founder a calf, it is so hot.And I have seen horses that have gotten into a barley bin bloat and never recover. Of course they could do that by overeating anything I guess. I have never dared feed barley to the horses. But I think iv you were careful it would work too.

Oh, also if there is something wrong with their teeth, it is easy to spot as they will dribble the oats out, where if it is some kind of prepared stuff they will just hold it there and swallow.


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## ohmt (Jun 5, 2013)

Some of my old gals, closer to the shetland/welsh breeding do really great just on oats and hay and a couple of them don't even get the oats, but they are in their late teens/early 20's now and their metabolisms just aren't what they used to be. The majority over 4 yrs get oats, free choice hay (pasture in summer), and a ration balancer because our hay is low in protein. I do have quite a few who need more though or they just will not keep their weight. 1/2 of my stallions, about 1/4 of my mares, and of course all of the younguns also get sweet feed along with beet pulp. Everything is weighed so nothing is wasted and I like Safe Choice now better than any of the Purina products. If I could do just hay, oats, and a ration balancer for everyone, it would be wonderful, but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. I do agree, there are people who tend to go a bit overboard, but I have been seeing so many malnourished horses on fb lately that I don't want to have someone stop something that's working and not notice their horse go downhill. Off tangent, but why is it that "big horse" people just can not see when a miniature horse is severely underweight and in need of more nourishment? I will always pipe up when someone posts a picture on fb asking for a critique and their horse desperately needs food, but will have about 50 big horse people jump all over me for it. Just incredulous, and the problem seems to be rising.


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## HGFarm (Jun 5, 2013)

ohmt I wonder if it's because some 'big horse people' who have never been around Minis dont REALLY know what one should look like?


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## Minimor (Jun 5, 2013)

Sometimes it is because they have been warned to not feed too much or the mini will founder--abd so they are afraid to feed ENOUGH. They might know the mini is too thin but they don't dare feed more...or else it simply doesn't occur to them to FEEL the little horse. With big horses you can generally see thin; with a furry little mini you have to feel for body condition.


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## BSharpRanch (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm the other way, why can't people see all the fat rolls and pockets on their obese, soon to be foundered minis?? Makes me even sicker then seeing a ribby one.


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## ohmt (Jun 5, 2013)

That could be, Laurie and Holly. Most of what I see are minis with the big bellies, and visually very protruding hip and spine. I will usually chime in and let them know (I try nicely!) that an increase in protein and calories would be extremely beneficial as the horse is very underweight, and then the flack comes. I'll keep on truckin, I just find it alarming that so many people seem to be completely blind to it.

I honestly see way more malnourished horses than fat ones, though one can be just as fatal as the other.


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## fourluckyhorseshoes (Jun 5, 2013)

BSharpRanch said:


> I'm the other way, why can't people see all the fat rolls and pockets on their obese, soon to be foundered minis??


Completely agree on that one. I know a pony that is very fat, kept telling the owners he needed to lose a lot of weight/thyroid problem etc, but they thought he looked fine. The vet told them he's a 9/9 BCS---uhhh....... told you so (but I was polite enough to hold my tongue).


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## LaVern (Jun 5, 2013)

I agree that too fat is terrible too. But, for me it won't be the oats that will cause me trouble. It will be the lush pasture grass with all these open mares. This not breeding so many is going to be harder to manage. I will have to watch them very carefully and perhaps not let them graze 24 hours a day.

Perhaps run them on pasture after the cows come off.


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## BriarwoodAcres (Jun 8, 2013)

I am glad this was brought up. This has made me change back to rolled oats and a supplement!

I am glad this was brought up. This has made me change back to rolled oats and a supplement!

I am glad this was brought up. This has made me change back to rolled oats and a supplement!

I am glad this was brought up. This has made me change back to rolled oats and a supplement!

I am glad this was brought up. This has made me change back to rolled oats and a supplement!

I am glad this was brought up. This has made me change back to rolled oats and a supplement!


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## Shes My Style (Jun 8, 2013)

madmax said:


> What are most of you feeding very old horses with no back teeth? Besides soaked beet pulp. I have to buy the expensive bag of senior feed, well soaked so they won't choke, which I have had happen when feeding hay (!)


Have you looked into hay pellets? You can soak them and they will be nice and soft for the older horse. I would probably do a mixture of timothy &alfalfa pellets and a vit./mineral supplement to round out the nutrients and see how they do with that.


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## Oceanspray Farm (Jun 9, 2013)

http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/nutrition/feeds/eqdigestio3120/ 

This is a GREAT article about equine nutrition and it of course applies to the little ones.


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## RoleyPoley (Oct 3, 2013)

disneyhorse said:


> As with humans, I don't think you can make huge, sweeping disclaimers about one feed program or another without evaluating the individual horse.
> 
> While I agree that a non-working "pet" horse of most breeds can get by without grain (concentrates) and subsist on hay only... That might not be the route to go for a Grand Prix dressage Hanoverian in intensive training.
> 
> ...


Well said! Sure your pet horse who does light work can live fine with hay and a supplement. For you all who mix your own grains, it is not reasonable to say that you are certain that you are feeding a balanced diet and criticize the feed manufacturers that spend millions of dollars researching this. I went to the Purina Animal Nutrition Center Facility in Missouri for education for work, and it was incredible the amount of detailed research they are doing. They are looking at every aspect of equine nutrition to an extent that I don't think any company has gone before. They have a 1,000+ acre facility with groups of horses that are on various feed programs and studied for their endurance and reproduction capabilities, body condition, and even their taste preferences! Whoever says that "all" horses only need oats and hay, have never had the opportunity to see the difference different feeds can make to a horse that is either a hard keeper, that has special needs, is in hard work, or just does not maintain a healthy appearance on hay and a handful of oats. I guess they are lucky that way! I love easy keepers!


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## Marty (Oct 4, 2013)

_Maybe I’ll be back here in 6 months ranting that my oat plan didn’t work out but that remains to be seen._

Hi Guys!!!! 

 So its not 6 months but its 5 so here's my progress oat update: no problems, no complaints. We had a summer of very lush grass, lots of rain and my new orchard grass hay that i am about to pick up tests out at a very good quality as it always does. Glad of that because forrage is the basis of my food program around here. .I had two horses loose their topline at first when I began to feed the oats, but an increase fixed it. The hair coats are brilliant and everyone feels good. I'm still feeding the cheap $12.50 whole oats from our local general store. Never purchased the expensive oats. But I do have something kinda weird to add: I have one itchy mare in the barn. She's been itching for a couple of years to no avail. Never could put my finger on what was wrong and I did everything from medicated baths to special fly spray to stall stripping, you name it and she never stopped itching.........until I put her on oats. Now I'm not saying that oats cured her, but she has not itched since about the time I took her off the fancy feed and shoved her on the cheap oats. But then I couldn't leave well enough alone. This is the part where I want to smack myself upside the head. I decided that as a treat I would buy a bag of Tractor Supply pellet food called Dumor Equistages for $14.99.. So that's what I use for when I go in the field and call them and get ignored. Let's face it, they only like me when I have a bucket of food. So now since I've been shelling this stuff out like candy for treat purposes only for the past 2 weeks....itchy mare is itching AGAIN! Process of elimination and my brains are telling me she cannot have it. There is something she is allergic to somehow in processed food. So at treat time now I have to bring her treat in a little cup which is only oats. Boggles the mind. 

And I'm still on quite the rant about the prices of feed and moreso, the new lines of feed they are coming up with. Just how many types of feed does one company have to make? Please. I mean to tell you really, this is insanity. They think we the consumer are idiots. Purinia, Nutrena, Safe Choice, every major company ojut there is in such competition with each other its crazy. They all have more selections of food than you can possibly count .Stop the insanity. Like Fizzy says, this is not rocket science. And I say, less BS is more.

Oh and before I forget, not sure if I mentioned this before but if you are finding any wevilles in your grains, plunk some bay leaves around your feed containers. They won't go near bay leaves. I also used them in my kitchen cabinets just in case.

So not to disapoint: Let's continue to rant: How about those beautiful pictures on those shiny bags of horse food? OMG Wonder what we would pay for the same contents in a plain brown rapper or a burlap sack? How's about we all just bring our own bag and have them fill it? Now, there's the idea that will go over like a lead balloon. Yes people, the feed companies are testing us, taunting us, padding their grain price due to fancy packaging and putting us on a guilt trip to buy buy buy and spend spend spend and I for one am way too old to fall for this. And speaking of the pretty feed bags, take a look at this!!!! Some of my friends are making these feed bag totes from them. Probably to re-coop some of the ridiculous amount of money they spent on the feed.

Click this: (hope link works) If not, copy and paste it. Then keep going down for my picture ok?



Last but not least, here is a picture of my two year old fillies after being on oats for about 2 1/2 months or so. I don't think they look half bad for cheap oat horses do you?

Click to make it larger ok? Thanks

View attachment 23434


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## Marty (Oct 4, 2013)

_Maybe I’ll be back here in 6 months ranting that my oat plan didn’t work out but that remains to be seen._

Hi Guys!!!! 

 So its not 6 months but its 5 so here's my progress oat update: no problems, no complaints. We had a summer of very lush grass, lots of rain and my new orchard grass hay that i am about to pick up tests out at a very good quality as it always does. Glad of that because forage is the basis of my food program around here. .I had two horses loose their topline at first when I began to feed the oats, but an increase fixed it. The hair coats are brilliant and everyone feels good. I'm still feeding the cheap $12.50 whole oats from our local general store. Never purchased the expensive oats. But I do have something kinda weird to add: I have one itchy mare in the barn. She's been itching for a couple of years to no avail. Never could put my finger on what was wrong and I did everything from medicated baths to special fly spray to stall stripping, you name it and she never stopped itching.........until I put her on oats. Now I'm not saying that oats cured her, but she has not itched since about the time I took her off the fancy feed and shoved her on the cheap oats. But then I couldn't leave well enough alone. This is the part where I want to smack myself upside the head. I decided that as a treat I would buy a bag of Tractor Supply pellet food called Dumor Equistages for $14.99.. So that's what I use for when I go in the field and call them and get ignored. Let's face it, they only like me when I have a bucket of food. So now since I've been shelling this stuff out like candy for treat purposes only for the past 2 weeks....itchy mare is itching AGAIN! Process of elimination and my brains are telling me she cannot have it. There is something she is allergic to somehow in processed food. So at treat time now I have to bring her treat in a little cup which is only oats. Boggles the mind. 

And I'm still on quite the rant about the prices of feed and more so, the new lines of feed they are coming up with. Just how many types of feed does one company have to make? Please. I mean to tell you really, this is insanity. They think we the consumer are idiots. Purina, Nutrena, Safe Choice, every major company out there is in such competition with each other its crazy. They all have more selections of food than you can possibly count .Stop the insanity. Like Fizzy says, this is not rocket science. And I say, less BS is more.

Oh and before I forget, not sure if I mentioned this before but if you are finding any weevils in your grains, plunk some bay leaves around your feed containers. They won't go near bay leaves. I also used them in my kitchen cabinets just in case.

So not to disappoint: Let's continue to rant: How about those beautiful pictures on those shiny bags of horse food? OMG Wonder what we would pay for the same contents in a plain brown rapper or a burlap sack? How's about we all just bring our own bag and have them fill it? Now, there's the idea that will go over like a lead balloon. Yes people, the feed companies are testing us, taunting us, padding their grain price due to fancy packaging and putting us on a guilt trip to buy buy buy and spend spend spend and I for one am way too old to fall for this. And speaking of the pretty feed bags, take a look at this!!!! Some of my friends are making these feed bag totes from them. Probably to re-coop some of the ridiculous amount of money they spent on the feed.

Click this: (hope link works) If not, copy and paste it.



Last but not least, here is a picture of my two year old fillies after being on oats for about 2 1/2 months or so. I don't think they look half bad for cheap oat horses do you?


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## chandab (Oct 4, 2013)

My MIL made a few of those feed bag totes, but quite after awhile, cause they really eat up the needles, or at least they did for her.

Marty, are you using a vit/min supplement? If so, what?


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## Marty (Oct 5, 2013)

Hi Chanda, no supplements. I don't see the need and I'm actually looking for problems but no one is lacking. I have out a 50 lbs red mineral block, a 50 lbs white salt block, a big thing of Purina 12 12 free choice minerals. I keep them inside the main barn so they don't get wet from rain. They can take it or leave it as they want/need.

My old Quarter Horse is a different story. He gets Purina Equine Sr. vita plus vitamins and arthritis supplements and the same blocks and minerals as the others, pasture all day long and hay. He also gets some of that pre-packaged alfalfa hay from Tractor Supply mixed in with his orchard grass hay during the winter months and warm beet pulp with carrots or equine sr. for lunch. At 33 years old, I'm not messing with his recipe.


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## wingnut (Oct 5, 2013)

Great update Marty!


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## ruffian (Oct 5, 2013)

Check with your local elevators or farmers for oats. TSC around here has always been the most expensive. Inspect any oats you get from farmers, just make sure they are cleaned otherwise you get too much chass, dust, and straw bits.


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## Helicopter (Oct 6, 2013)

My freaky old Arab mare has returned to her old sweet self after removing a "cool" pellet from her diet. She is the one I accused of going senile and who freaked, knocked me over, freaked some more, slipped then fell on my leg and broke it big time.

Hope she stays that way. Poor old thing.

So Marty I like your style.


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## Shari (Oct 6, 2013)

I do feed some of my Horses Triple Crown products, one gets Low Starch, the other needs senior feed..

Only bagged feed I can find in VA, that doesn't have bugs in it in summer. And the quality is constant.

Yes, it is spendy but every thing is super spendy in this state.

If I could find good crimped oats, would get that... but sadly, can't find any in my area.


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 6, 2013)

I think can go one cheaper than Oats, Marty. I do not feed. In summer, all summer, they graze, they get no extras no supplements, nada. In winter they still graze as I am knee deep in grass, but obviously they need a bit extra to make up for the lack of much in the grass. In winter they get beet pulp soaked, chaff and barley + a few bits and bobs (flax seed ground and micronised etc) I am a great believer in KISS and if it works for you why change it??


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## iowa (Oct 6, 2013)

Hi. I just started reading this topic and feel much like Marty about the confusion the feed companies try to put us in. Luckily, I live in Iowa so have a neighbor farmer from whom I buy a 300 bushel wagonload of oats every year. I paid $3.70 per bushel this year.

I found someones post interesting. They said the farmer had to charge more for oats because fuel and machinery, etc. have gone up. Being raised on a farm with a farmer Dad, I would like to point out that the farmer has no say in what the price of grain will be. They are not like a clothing or grocery store that can raise their price if expenses have gone up. They take what they get, plus they have to deliver it as well!

In the long run, price is determined by the Chicago Board of Trade commodity prices. Farmers can go to the board of trade and fix a price for their crop if they like for a fee.

Being a farmer's daughter I just feel I must correct misconceptions about farming.


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## Tab (Oct 8, 2013)

Marty, I think the biggest asset to your feeding program is grass. Here is why I say that. I experimented with oats this year also. My horses get minimal grass, so we are hand grazing to supplement, until we can (very soon) put in another pasture. I've given pellets and sweet feed in the past, always grass and grass hay. After many months of oats I have come to the conclusion that straight oats and grass hay alone are terrible for hooves. I trim my own, so I can tell you that this is fact. I have to evaluate my feeding program again. Best to stick with what works best. Now that may be oats for some, complete feed for some, grass pellets for some, and maybe just grass and hay for others. The kicker is going to be access to grass. Nothing else does for a horse what grass can. That is really going back to nature. I think it is what my horses have missed out in the past. Especially Joe, my little man, that is always so skinny. He needs grass to maintain health. Obviously, gradual introductions to feed and grass. Watch minis closely on grass and any starchy feed! I started my herd in a very grassy locale. With grass and exercise they were almost always in show shape. I came out here and my back yard is a dry-lot and my pasture is damp and shaded by woods. It is more moss and weeds than grass. No amount of grain or supplement will do what grass will. Jmo


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 9, 2013)

If you get good enough grass hay and soak it, it goes back to virtual grass in a few moments. I soak everything, literally. In winter, since my horses water source is a river and thus does not freeze at any time, I do not, I must admit, soak any hay I give, but all grain is soaked either overnight or in hot water immediately prior to feeding. Whole grain has a cellulose coat that is indigestible to horses, so any grain that is not very well chewed will go straight through. Whole oats has a better "jacket" (that provides fibre as chaff does) than barley, but barley makes down into porridge much quicker and better than oats, so it is swings and roundabouts there. This winter I do not think I shall be feeding any hay at all- of course it will be on offer, but looking at the stallion field, it is knee deep and still growing, so I honestly think they will not want the hay! In this case I use grain as a supplement as obviously there is not enough in the dead and dying grass over the winter to sustain them. I have kept the mares this way for the past two winters and, if anything, they are too fat coming out of the winter, so this year I have promised myself to try to be more careful, and to ignore the "Oliver Twist" eyes at the feed bins!!!


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## cretahillsgal (Oct 10, 2013)

I am just now seeing this post, Marty. I'm not on LB as much as I used to be. But now I'm REALLY wondering if this is not what is/was up with Momma's itching. I couldn't maintain her weight on grass hay alone, and heaven knows we haven't had any real grass for years. So I've always maintained her weight with feed. She has been fed 3 different kinds to see if it made a difference, but they WERE all still commercial horse feeds. If she were still going to be here, I think I would have to try your oats feeding regimen on her.


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## Margo_C-T (Oct 10, 2013)

I am happy with my current program of grass hay, beardless wheat hay, a portion of alfalfa once daily, and Nutrena's 'Empower' ration balancer for grass formula, along w/ once daily stabilized ground flax and soaked beet pulp pellets. Since my 31 YO mare can't chew hay and won't touch soaked hay or hay pellets, she gets a mix of Total Equine and a tiny pelleted product known as 'hay stretcher' from Purina, along w/ the flax and beet pulp. Keep salt blocks out at all times, of course...and fresh water(now into 'heated bucket' season here.)

For the first year in several, there is enough grass on my 10 acres to let them graze, and they LOVE it, of course! I reintroduced them to it gradually, even though it is all native grass. The past three or four years, I've had a 'volunteer' grass show up, which with the most rain we've had in years, is thick and covering much of the former bare areas this year; it is an annual variety of grama, known as 'six weeks' grama.In loose soil, it pulls up when grazed, but this year, it is thick enough, and the soil compacted enough by rains, that they are grazing it very successfully, and seem to prefer it to the 'standard' local pasture grass, black grama, a perennial, which seems more palatable after it cures in the winter. This isn't bad soil, all this country needs is ENOUGH RAIN...which admittedly, it seldom gets. I fully agree about the value of grass to graze; however, here it seldom happens.


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