# Neck collar vs. breast collars



## jbrat (Nov 17, 2006)

Hello,

I've been enjoying all the info. here on the forum, thanks to everyone for sharing!

Recently, we bought a very safe 34" pony, he was driving Amish children to school everyday. So he's "about" bomb proof as far as driving goes. He'll teach us and the other ponies alot I'm sure.

Anyway, with his small size I'm concerned about how to make him the most comfortable when pulling the cart. Which is a EE cart. I'll try to get updated pics. soon.

By pictures that I've seen, I'd say breast collar is the most popular. But I'm looking for opinions on what is easiest on the mini. Since many pictures are taken while showing.

He's use to driving with a breast collar and that is what I use but with the pad it about covers his whole chest.

Thanks to all!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 17, 2006)

This question gets covered a lot in great detail on the minihorsedriving group on Yahoo if you want to join and go through their archives. The shortest answer is that it is easier for a horse to pull from a properly fitted full collar than a breast collar IF the cart has the correct angle of draft. A collar would not work well with the horizontal line of draft seen on most EE and show carts. Pads are good! :bgrin

Leia


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## jbrat (Nov 17, 2006)

Thank you Leia for your reply!

I'll be sure to check into that group.

I'm trying to decide if it is a big enough difference, to be worth the extra investment, or if my $ would be better off invested in a v collar, another cart or something.

I just tossed the idea out here to see what opinions I get.

I would alter the cart and do the needed adjustments if it will make a big difference. But I also want to be able to use this cart with the larger 38-39" pony. So I'm not sure what to do, for now. Eventually if the larger pony turns into a good driving pony too, then we"ll invest in another cart. I'm just trying to decide how important it is, I plan on driving this little guy and ponying the one in training, for a few miles so I've been researching the different types of neck and breat collars.

I guess if he's use to driving kids to school everyday, in breast collar he'd be fine pulling me around too! at least for a while.




:


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## dangerranger (Nov 17, 2006)

The neck collar is easy on the pony ' when its well fitted'. if your horses gain weight in the winter and loose in the summer you will need several collars to keep a good fit. thats why breast collars are so popular. they can be fitted to several horses or adjusted to weight changes easly. but breast collars cannot pull as much weight. so you are limited to light weight vehicals or carts. with minis you are not likely to need the extra weight capacity. Good luck. DR.


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## Shari (Nov 17, 2006)

Collar and Hames can be hard to fit to a mini horse correctly.

If I still lived on the East coast I would have access to good harness makers close by.

However living over on this side of the country now..... I would end up buying and trying many different shape/sizes of collars. Would get very spendy, very fast.

An improperly fitting Collar and Hames is really bad for your horse and can cause them harm.

If you are lucky enough to be in an area of the Country where you have access to good harness makers....as Collar and Hames would be worth looking at.

Maggie is not working her best in a regular Breast collar...so I am looking into getting her a California soft collar.

If I can't swing that...then I will get a Deep V breast collar from Country Carriages USA.


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## jbrat (Nov 18, 2006)

I'm very interested in the Soft collars, I think I've seen them in pictures but didn't know what to call them.

I'm not seeing much info. on the v collars either.

Winter is setting in here, and so I figure I have all winter to educate myself and figure out what will work out best for for me and the ponies.

And I'm finding out about more options already.

If you have any info on the soft collars and others please send it to me.

And I don't want to have to buy a bunch of collars to have them fit properly. I would rather buy 1 collar and be able to use it year round.

Do you know if it is easier to fit Soft collars?

And do the v-collars make a difference since the mini's have such a small chest anyway?

There are several Amish harness makers around so thats not a problem, just making up my mind is the problem!

I've never seen a soft collar at any of the harness shops. But I'd sure like to check them out, I think they look lighter and more comfortable. Which is why I'd like to here more about them.

Haven' t seen any of the v-collars either around here. I would probably have to order them too.

Maybe I'm making to big of a deal out of it since all the Amish use breast collars on there horse, occasionally I might see a neck collar.

This guy is so little though,, I'm used to big ol' Quarter horses. I feel the need to baby this little guy, so small in comparision.

Thank you :bgrin


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 18, 2006)

jbrat said:


> I'm very interested in the Soft collars, I think I've seen them in pictures but didn't know what to call them. I'm not seeing much info. on the v collars either.
> 
> And I don't want to have to buy a bunch of collars to have them fit properly. I would rather buy 1 collar and be able to use it year round.
> 
> ...


The "California soft collar" is right now a one-of-a-kind invention that Breanna Sheahan (I'm sure I'm misspelling her last name) had made and then used on her horse Fascination at a CDE earlier this year. I personally think they're pretty nice because if properly made it would allow the horse to use their shoulder for pulling just as a collar does, but without all the bulk. I wouldn't want to use something that unpadded for actual draft work, but it gives an advantage over a regular breast collar on the same load. I think. LOL

If the ones you've been seeing are black with yellow insides, those are Eurocollars. The jury is still out on that design with some liking them and some hating them, but either way they aren't really available for the minis so it's not an option for your little fellow.

I've heard that rumor about having to get a different collar for every season too, but according to quite a few folks I know who drive their minis in collars that isn't the case. You may have to pad it a little in summer and try to squish down some hair in the winter but they say they haven't had a problem. I would personally talk to large commercial carriage ride companies and others who drive a variety of horses in collars pulling real loads and see what they have to say about collar fit.

The deep V collars can be difficult to get properly fitted for a mini depending on the shape of their chest, but many horses find them helpful. Your breastcollar will certainly be more comfortable for the horse if it drops down below his windpipe and still clears his shoulders easily.

But the fact is unless your load is way out of scale for your fellow, I bet ya he's fine in the breastcollar. What is more important than the style of the collar is how it is fitted and how his load is balanced. If everything is well-adjusted, he should be fine.



> This guy is so little though,, I'm used to big ol' Quarter horses. I feel the need to baby this little guy, so small in comparision.


Hehe, don't tell him that! He'll run rings around your quarter horse if you give him a chance.

Leia


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 18, 2006)

You can get "Brollers" which are about the same, now.

http://www.ridendrive.co.uk/acatalog/Driving_Reins.html

and I am pretty sure that Zilco make them too but I can't get on their site at the moment.

A full collar is much harder to fit properly and, to be honest, I have never seen a Mini in an easy entry using full collar- I did have a set years ago and a cart that went with it, but I never had a horse that fitted the harness correctly so I never used it.

I would go for an ordinary, well padded, breast collar- some of the harnesses offered at a little more expense have more leather padding on them- I hate the single flat strap, not enough and I do not like using pads- I preferr to get it all in leather.


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## Sue_C. (Nov 18, 2006)

Okay, I get it now.... I thought a "Broller", was a new thing. I have always called them "french collars", and there is a harness maker here, who is willing to make one for me. What is the greatest thing about them, is that they are adjustable, and seem to me, to be an exact cross between a full collar and breast collar, and most excellent for marathon, or cross country hacking.

Is this what Breanna uses? Something very similar?


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 18, 2006)

Breanna had her own made so I am assuming she has adapted it in quite a few ways, but I do like the Brollers, they seem to be a perfect compromise and I am seeing them more and more in Marathon


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## Sue_C. (Nov 18, 2006)

I agree that they look to be the perfect compromise between the two. I have a couple of collar/hames harnesses too, but use them ony for the sleigh, and heavy parade outfit, we use to haul Santa, and they do work well. _But_ they are so big and bulky, it is hard to find the horse. :new_shocked: :lol:


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## Shari (Nov 18, 2006)

Zilco Deep V will only work on carts/carriages with a low draft. It will not work on carts like my, Country Road cart.

Problem I have heard from a few people..that the "french or Euro collar" that we get in the USA, is of poor quality,,,little better than card board and does not fit the mini's properly.

Was interested in those until I heard this.

Breanna's California collar looks like the best design. Still waiting to get their catalog in the mail and have been waiting for awhile.





These are the folks that made Breanna's Harness.

http://www.tanglewood-farms.com/Index_files/page0010.htm


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 18, 2006)

"Broller," "French collar," and "Eurocollars" are all names for the same thing, which is what Fizz has pictured. I like the idea but like Shari have heard there are problems with quality in the sources available for our size. There is also this persistant rumor that they trap heat but that doesn't seem to be true from what I've seen in person, or at least any worse than a saddle would. I definitely wouldn't buy this product in anything but good-quality leather so that it would breathe and eventually contour to the horse.

The collar Breanna uses is similar but does not come down to cover the chest or shoulder. The shape is most like that of a full collar, but it is like a breast collar in that it is a flat piece of leather with the traces directly attached instead of using hames.



> But they are so big and bulky, it is hard to find the horse. :new_shocked: :lol:


Yep, that's the only reason I haven't gotten one! :bgrin Marjean of Camptown Harness supposedly has a new in-scale one, but I haven't seen it in person.



> Zilco Deep V will only work on carts/carriages with a low draft. It will not work on carts like my, Country Road cart.


That is true of the Zilco "Empathy Collar," but not of the "Deep V's" (the imitation styles made by other companies.) The Deep V collars sold by Smuckers, the Carriage House, etc. all work fine with a horizontal line of draft and can sometimes be adjusted to work with a lower angle as well. The official Empathy collar, which is not available in true mini size yet, has a much deeper angle over the shoulders and should only be used with a lowered singletree.

Leia


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## susanne (Nov 18, 2006)

My "inner inventor" has to ask...

Couldn't any danger of excess heat be eliminated by building channels into the built-in padding? Although the padding would be compressed to a certain degree while pulling, I would think that it would still allow more ventilation than solid padding.

As they say, idle minds...


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## MiniHGal (Nov 18, 2006)

Oh man, so I come on the forum again and what do you know? There's a whole topic on collars vs breastcollars--which we just had (are having?) on the mini driving list. LOL

Shari, by the way, maybe you should email/call Lois--she is generally very prompt, so there may have been a miscommunication. She is really a nice lady and wouldn't blow you off (or well, shouldn't...I've only known them for 7 ish years or so? :lol: ).

Hmm, Fizz, I don't really care for the broller...maybe I would have to try it but it looks like it would pull like a normal breastcollar--the rest of the stuff is just there--there is only the one point of attachment and that pulls straight around the shoulders. Granted, there is lots of surface area and windpipe clearance, which is better than most breast collars.

That was the basic style Lois used, but the soft collar has a little higher point of attachment and draws more from the plane of the shoulder, like a collar, than the Euro/broller/etc. It also clears the points of the shoulder very well, as I get nervous about putting any kind of pressure on the points--nerve damage is not pretty! There is also room for her windpipe, as we have done some serious pulling and I have never heard her wheeze(which would flip me out, personally)--which can happen if your horse has a lower neck set and works hard in a breastcollar. There are several other adjustments as well.

I am going to (eventually!) have her make me a 'plain' soft collar, with buckle in traces that have both normal and leader length traces--so awesome!! Of course, I also REALLY want a tandem harness made by Lois with all the bells and whistles....but thats slightly expensive.






It actually would probably work better with a lower angle of draft(from the collar side of the family) than the Jerald but it works pretty darn well anyway and I am not modifying that carriage!! My marathon cart has a slightly lower angle and it worked pretty well--I have not tried it on a four wheel marathon with a low angle of draft but really want to. (Aren't her braids cute??)

Oh, and I have never had a problem with heat retention or fitting--it has never made her sore(and we test the limits, to be sure) and she is rarely warmer under it than the saddle (aka, not much). The big thing going for me is that SHE likes it. If she likes it, that is what we will use. So we do. All the time.

And her dressage work has gotten a lot better....part of it is that we are really making a point of dressage work, but I think it is easier for her to use her neck in the soft collar. Haven't noticed a change in her gaits, but her ability to come under herself and lift up (hard for her) has definitely improved.


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## Shari (Nov 18, 2006)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> > Zilco Deep V will only work on carts/carriages with a low draft. It will not work on carts like my, Country Road cart.
> 
> 
> That is true of the Zilco "Empathy Collar," but not of the "Deep V's" (the imitation styles made by other companies.) The Deep V collars sold by Smuckers, the Carriage House, etc. all work fine with a horizontal line of draft and can sometimes be adjusted to work with a lower angle as well. The official Empathy collar, which is not available in true mini size yet, has a much deeper angle over the shoulders and should only be used with a lowered singletree.
> ...


Thanks Leia for catching that.... I meant the Zilco Empathy collar. <Smacking forehead now>


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## jbrat (Nov 19, 2006)

Cool!!

See I thought this would be a good place to ask some questions!

Thanks for all opinions! The more the better!

MiniHgal,

I really like your collar. Is is adjustable so it could fit more than 1 (if similiar in size) mini?

Is this the collar that is a 1 of a kind? If so there's probably a waiting list for 1. If your H-maker ever adds it to thier catalog, I'd like to check it out. wondering how pricey? a reg. collar and hames aren't cheap anyway, so $ might be better spent on a collar like this- ( the one in above pic.)

thanks


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 19, 2006)

Breanne, could I be cheeky and ask how much your soft collar cost, and if Lois has plans to make them up as standard- ie for the public to buy??


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 10, 2007)

Sorry to bump an old topic, but Breanna I was wondering if you have more input on this? I too would like to know cost and if they will be offered standard to the public.

Leia


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## AJ (Feb 10, 2007)

If this pony drove kids to school every day using a breasr collar, why are you thinking of changing?


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## jbrat (Feb 10, 2007)

AJ - I'm just looking to make him comfortable- he was obviously over worked and thin when we got him. Plus, I weigh more than little kids. And would like to be able to take others for rides too. So He'll be pulling more weight. Plus he has had a ruff life so far and I want to make him more comfortable and make his job easier and fun. I'm still reading all the info. I can find to help me decide what is best. For now we're stickin' with a breast collar.

I've heard a few people say they can move much more freely in neck collars. I have a friend who uses a neck collar for her mini and she swears by them. So I'm searching all my options before I buy. And its sooo confusing




:

THanks to those who are experimenting and posting thier opinions!! :aktion033: I very much appreciate it!!

I need to get my hands on that book about Balanced draft checked amazon.com they don't have it. I'm following all the lower draft info. too. So It may be awhile before I make up my mind- if ever!

Leia thanks for bumping this old topic!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 10, 2007)

You can buy Barb's book through the ADS or from my friend Kayo at Wild Horse Books and Art, both of them online. That's where I got mine, and she's great!

Leia


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