# Safest way to get up steep hills?



## rbrown (Apr 30, 2012)

There is a gorgeous conditioning trail at my new barn that's perfect for driving (in fact, the owner made it specifically for her driving horses!). Sadly for Skip, we have to go up a very steep hill to get to the trail. Skip really can't pull me and the cart, so I'm wondering how to navigate this hill safely. I didn't realize the hill was so steep until we were driving up it, so I got out and led her while helping pull 1 shaft. I know it's generally not considered safe to lead a hitched horse, but I'm not sure how else to get over the hill! I suppose I could just bring the cart over the hill, then lead her to that point, but that's an awful lot of walking!! The hill isn't close to the barn. She also couldn't hold the cart back going down- we're using a breeching and it's adjusted correctly, and is nice and wide... she just doesn't have the muscle she needs yet- so I unhitched, and led her while pulling the cart.

Anyway, Skip loves the trail, so I do want to be able to drive her there. For now I've been just ground driving, but I can't run along beside her for long (between allergies and asthma, I have a had time catching my breath!). I think part of the problem is that she's out of shape, but the hill is steep enough that I think I'll always have to get out of the cart. I'm wondering if it's safe to get out and lead her- I really want to use the trails, but I also don't want to put us in a dangerous situation. It feels safe to me... but I've heard over and over to stay in the cart whenever possible, so it's making me think twice!

Or... Maybe I'll just have to get a hyperbike instead!




They look like so much fun!


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## disneyhorse (Apr 30, 2012)

I'd probably be leading the horse, too...


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## CZP1 (Apr 30, 2012)

I have a big hill that I have to go up (driveway) to get to the trails too. I lead my horse. I just loop the reins and make sure they are not drooping in between the saddle and back strap and hold onto him by the reins by his head. I leave enough room as I don't bump the shafts (leaves a heck of a bruise). I also trust my horse and though I don't suggest it with a big horse you can get away with doing things with a mini.

It is the best way I know to condition my horse (and me). I also get out and walk him down the hill (has breeching on) but is a rock drive and that way he doesn't slip.


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## MiLo Minis (Apr 30, 2012)

It only takes a couple'minutes to unhitch before leading the horse up the hill. I would lead him up, tie him and then go back for the cart yourself. Think what great shape you will be in and you won't be risking an accident that would quite possibly get you or your horse or both injured and could kill your cart. A couple'more minutes at the top and you are on your way again. Minis may be small but they can bolt as easily as any horse and you won't likely stop them.


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## rbrown (May 1, 2012)

Thank you all for the input. I've thought about it some more, and I do think I should stick with my gut feeling and not lead her up. She's not spooky, but if she did spook, there is an opening in the fence right at the top of the hill, and that leads right to a busy road- that could definitely lead to some very, very scary situations. Now my issue is whether I can make sure she'll stand safely once she's at the top and ready to go on the trails... looks like I'll stick to ground driving her on that path and making sure she can remember what whoa means in such an exciting new place!!


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## susanne (May 1, 2012)

I assume this is at a boarding stable. It would be one thing to take a risk such as this on your own property with nobody else around, but in this case you'd be putting not only you and your horse at risk, but other people and horses as well, so I wouldn't do it. Is there any way to do a switchback route up the hill? The HyperBike IS a great idea, even if you didn't have this hill to contend with...


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## rbrown (May 2, 2012)

Yep, it's a boarding place. Someday I'll have a place like that!! It's absolutely gorgeous... so much space to drive! Unfortunately there are 3 paths up the hill- steep, steeper, and steepest! One is a paved road, which might actually be slightly less steep than the grassy path I've been taking, but I worry that she could slip and hurt herself.

She is actually on a light work only schedule right now- I had the chiropractor out and Skip has some big issues in her back and sacral area, and that was really affecting her gait, so maybe after another session or two she'll be a little stronger behind


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## Katiean (May 2, 2012)

I too board. There is not a lot of places to drive where I am at. So, I leave a halter on under the bridle and clip a lead rope on het halter. I then tie the rope to one of the rings on the saddle. This way I can safely lead my horse as there is no place to tie a horse to unhitch, lead the horse, tie the horse, go back for the cart and then rehitch. In my case (and my oppinion) it is safer to just lead the horse and continue the drive.


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## brasstackminis (May 2, 2012)

Yeah...I lead my pony home four miles once after he decided to be terrified on a drive. I guess I could have left his cart on the side of the road and led him home, and then retrieved the cart later but I chose to get all my stuff home at the same time...in the dark. Every time he scooted forward, I was jabbed in the side with the cart.



I know yours is a short trip, not 4 miles but, if you are asking for the best way...the safest way, either unhitch and go get the cart and then rehitch or go another way. Maybe you could take the cart up the hill, ground drive him up the hill and then hitch and go? Maybe you could get someone to cut a sideways trail for everyone to have an option of an eaiser trail?

I have done some things that are deemed "unsafe" before, feeling like my horses were an exception, only to find out that a different equine of mine reacted in an unexpected way and all of the sudden, all of those rules made sense. It is easy to think that minis are exempt from many safety rules due to their size. While it is true that generally I can regain a mini runaway with harsh reins and a little of what I have called the "Flintstone's Manuver," the first time you get in trouble, you will see why slow training and adherance to generalized safety rules is so important. I suppose if you want to learn from experiance vs. from others experiance you can ignore the safety issues, but I now choose to be safe.


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## rbrown (May 4, 2012)

brasstackminis said:


> Yeah...I lead my pony home four miles once after he decided to be terrified on a drive. I guess I could have left his cart on the side of the road and led him home, and then retrieved the cart later but I chose to get all my stuff home at the same time...in the dark. Every time he scooted forward, I was jabbed in the side with the cart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did some absolutely totally 120% unsafe things with Kandy before I knew better (like taking off her bridle while she was still attached to the cart



), so I feel kind of silly having this debate with myself. And honestly, I'd probably just lead Skip without thinking IF I trusted her as much as I trust Kandy... but Skip has nowhere near as many "miles" as Kandy. I'm getting old enough to realize that yes, horses are dangerous, even my precious little minis, and no, I really really really cannot afford to take risks the way I did a few years ago!


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## Sandee (May 10, 2012)

Just a thought but since you say you are out a ways from the barn when you get to this hill, how about unhitching and using a lead rope to tie your horse to the back of the cart while you pull it up the hill. (yes, make the reins and all safe) That way everything arrives at the top together and you don't have to worry about leaving your horse tied alone.

I'd suggest trying this in a safer place first. Near the barn in an arena etc. to see if your horse spooks behind the cart.


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## circlesinthesand (May 10, 2012)

Sandee said:


> Just a thought but since you say you are out a ways from the barn when you get to this hill, how about unhitching and using a lead rope to tie your horse to the back of the cart while you pull it up the hill. (yes, make the reins and all safe) That way everything arrives at the top together and you don't have to worry about leaving your horse tied alone.
> 
> I'd suggest trying this in a safer place first. Near the barn in an arena etc. to see if your horse spooks behind the cart.


Well I live in the land of flat...no hills around here so take it with a grain of salt but I really wouldn't recommend tying to anything that move...What happens if you drop the cart and the horse spooks? I can envision a tangled mess worse than if you'd have just had them pull it up. You might not think they can pull that cart by a halter but I've seen young horses practically tear down barns and Just last night I watched a foundered mini (who we have here working on getting her sound) move an entire heavy round pen just by putting her neck between the rails and pushing to get to the grass we're trying to keep her off. It takes 2 healthy strong people to move just 5 of those panels hooked together a few feet and that mini moved 10 of them 12 ft in about 3 seconds flat. I was a bit in shock! I think if you can pull it that pony definitely can when the adrenaline gets pumping.

But you can maybe teach your horse to lead behind the cart and just hold him in your hand? I have ponied yearlings off the back of a cart (and 4 wheelers, lol) in our pastures just holding the lead in my hand while another person drives I can't imagine that would be much different and they learn good skills this way too. Worse case scenario can you just drop the lead? I don't think I'd try this if I was near heavy traffic or unsafe conditions but if there is a perimeter fence and an eventual way to catch the pony without him getting into too much trouble? Otherwise I think I'd find a safe place to tie pony and get in shape


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## rbrown (May 10, 2012)

circlesinthesand said:


> Well I live in the land of flat...no hills around here so take it with a grain of salt but I really wouldn't recommend tying to anything that move...What happens if you drop the cart and the horse spooks? I can envision a tangled mess worse than if you'd have just had them pull it up. You might not think they can pull that cart by a halter but I've seen young horses practically tear down barns and Just last night I watched a foundered mini (who we have here working on getting her sound) move an entire heavy round pen just by putting her neck between the rails and pushing to get to the grass we're trying to keep her off. It takes 2 healthy strong people to move just 5 of those panels hooked together a few feet and that mini moved 10 of them 12 ft in about 3 seconds flat. I was a bit in shock! I think if you can pull it that pony definitely can when the adrenaline gets pumping.
> 
> But you can maybe teach your horse to lead behind the cart and just hold him in your hand? I have ponied yearlings off the back of a cart (and 4 wheelers, lol) in our pastures just holding the lead in my hand while another person drives I can't imagine that would be much different and they learn good skills this way too. Worse case scenario can you just drop the lead? I don't think I'd try this if I was near heavy traffic or unsafe conditions but if there is a perimeter fence and an eventual way to catch the pony without him getting into too much trouble? Otherwise I think I'd find a safe place to tie pony and get in shape


I know both girls are totally fine being led behind the cart, but like circlesinthesand suggested, I don't feel safe tying to the cart. I would lead the horse while pulling the cart up at the same time, but I can't!! The cart is too heavy and the hill is too steep- I have to really throw my weight into it to get it up the hill (so I understand why Skippy can't do it!), so I don't think I'm coordinated enough to manage the cart and the horse (I can do it on flat surfaces, but this hill... it's just getting in the way of my driving plans!!). Plus both of the little stinkers like to try to eat grass on the way up whenever they can find an opportune moment, and there's no way I'm strong enough to pull the cart up and pull their heads up!!


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## Jetiki (May 10, 2012)

I read the thread but I am sure I missed something but are you walking up this hill or trotting? Can you go at an angle down it, not straight down? If you go down at an angle it will not push the horse so much.


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## Katiean (May 10, 2012)

Ok, you all say it is not safe to lead your horse while hitched. However, in my case, there is absolutely NOTHING to tie the horse to while I would go back and get the cart. So, unless I want to chase my horse all over heck and gone until he decides he is done playing games I have to lead my hitched horse up any hill he can not pull my big fat hind end up. I do not see any other way to do this when I am driving by myself.


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## Marsha Cassada (May 11, 2012)

As one who has had to work with my horses by myself for 10 years, I have to figure out how to do things alone. Sometimes I take chances, but it is a calculated risk. Life if full of risks and each has to weigh risks for himself. One reason I've chosen small horses, is I can more easily manage the risks by myself.

I would not tie my horse alone at the top of a hill while I went back for the cart. That seems like a large risk. Leading my horse up a steep hill while hitched seems like a low risk. Leading a hitched horse down a steep hill seems like a large risk. If that hill does not have enough area to go down at an angle, I wouldn't go down it.

My horses all are taught to pony behind a cart. It isn't that difficult. Use two lead ropes, an end tied to each side of the back of the seat. This keeps the horse from running up beside the cart and getting into the wheels. One can easily practice this, by being the horse in the cart.

There are lots of things that have an element of risk you can do with a 250# horse that you cannot do with a 1100# horse.


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## TMR (May 11, 2012)

Do you have a pic of this hill? Steep to one is not steep to another and how far is it up the hill, 1/4 mile or 4-5 strides. There is a big difference. Doing CDE's we encounter hills and actually train for them. Depending on how long this hill is why can't you warm him up well at the barn and then extended trot or canter up the hill (which is easiest on them). How many strides would it take to get up this hill? Many underestimate the ability of these minis.


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## Margo_C-T (May 11, 2012)

Another angle-- turning the cart around and using the shafts to PUSH it up like a wheelbarrow; you could still lead the horse, letting it walk a bit behind you(doing this occasionally won't 'destroy' your training for it to walk beside you!) on a leadrope. Unless it is extraordinarily steep,and/or the cart extraordinarily HEAVY, this can be notably easier than walking between the shafts and pulling it. As others have said, pictures of the various paths up this hill, and perhaps of the cart, to let us actually "SEE" them, would be ever so helpful when asking advice! I wouldn't want to leave a horse unattended at the top of the hill, NOR at the bottom, while I took the cart up separately, and I would not really want to make two frips, either!!

Edited to add: I do agree w/ TMR; if the horse is fit, and the layof the land would allow it safely, letting the horse accelerate up the hill could also be a viable option. I have done it!

Margo


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## rbrown (May 11, 2012)

I was looking at the hill the other day, when I was working Kandy in the pasture below, and thinking to myself "jeez, Skip is such a big baby because that hill doesn't look that bad!" I'm going to see if Kandy can do the hill tomorrow- Kandy doesn't whine about having to work like Skippy does 





Unfortunately, it's too long to trot and keep that momentum going, I think. It's at least 50 yards (I'm awful about estimating distances, but it's definitely more than a few strides). I know the barn owner's haflingers can pull their carts/carriages up the hill (she conditions for CDEs on this trail). The path leading up to the trail is definitely the least steep path. I'm also thinking about hitching once I get to the top of the hill. Skippy gets excited to drive on the trails- not naughty, where she won't listen, but just more excited to go... which means she might not be as happy to stand perfectly still as she is when I'm hitching her in the arena. With Kandy, asking her to stand still for 2 minutes is just not happening right now (the little stinker has decided she's forgotten what "whoa, stand" means since she's been on lease!). That's another issue, and we'll be spending lots of quality time together working on it





Skip is a big girl at 39", I have her in a freedom collar that she can really lean into, but she honestly couldn't pull me and the cart up the hill. Either that or she's a good actress!! Anyway, I'll try the hill with Kandy- she'll let me know if it's too much for her.


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## rbrown (May 12, 2012)

So.... turns out that Skippy is just a big wimp, LOL



Kandy went up and down the hill, with me and the cart, no problems. Kandy is such an awesome driving horse! She's built like a tank, has tons of energy, and many many many miles, so she was totally fine going up and down the big hill. I had such a fun time with her today.

I've decided that Skippy might just need some more confidence to do the hill. If Kandy can do the hill, I think Skippy is strong enough, but she hesitates too much and isn't sure of herself in new situations. I'll hold off on driving her on the trails for now, and will probably just do a lot of ground driving up and down the hill to get her used to it.


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## Jetiki (May 13, 2012)

its fine to slow down as you go up the hill but the forward moment of a good strong trot will go along way up the hill. by the time you get to the top you'll probably be walking, but getting that momentum can make a big difference.


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