# Verbage



## albahurst (Jan 5, 2010)

I have driven some, with the help of a trainer, but am interested in doing more on my own.

I would like to know what the frequent terms mean on equipment. Perhaps someone could post a pic of a driving setup and then label the parts? This was done with conformation once and was extremely helpful. Anyway, then when one reads posts on how to do this or that, or fix this or that, it would make alot more sense to someone fairly new to driving.

Thanks, in advance!

Peggy


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## RhineStone (Jan 5, 2010)

I can do that. I found a photo of my mom's gray that the harness contrasts on, but before I take the time to do that, I would like to see if anyone already has that.


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## maplegum (Jan 5, 2010)

I'd also like to see something like this, it would be very helpful


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## disneyhorse (Jan 5, 2010)

If you Google "harness parts" or "parts of a horse vehicle" you can find tons of diagrams with harness parts. There are different types of harnesses, vehicles, and different terms for the same thing.

Andrea


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## Marsha Cassada (Jan 5, 2010)

The different terms for the same thing is the confusing part!!!


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## Peggy Porter (Jan 6, 2010)

You mean like this?: http://www.green.meads.com/Appleparts.htm

Seriously: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/flo...harness0087.jpg

and : http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/flo...harness0088.jpg

Although I'm sure these are not all encompassing, they will give you a good start.

And please make sure to keep your "hood ornament" well polished! VBG!!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 6, 2010)

Aw, you beat me to it Peggy!




Love that satirical harness diagram, it's one of my favs.



disneyhorse said:


> If you Google "harness parts" or "parts of a horse vehicle" you can find tons of diagrams with harness parts. There are different types of harnesses, vehicles, and different terms for the same thing.


And what's worse, so many of those internet diagrams are just plain WRONG!!



The horses are hitched incorrectly, the parts are mislabeled or not used at all...it's scary. The ones that are right, like the two British diagrams that Peggy posted, are still different than the terms you'll hear on LB because the British call things by different terms than Americans do and tend to use a heavier type of carriage harness.

There's a good harness diagram on the Regency Performance Miniatures site (I won't link it as last time someone did the post was deleted) and I've got a couple of really good ones I found in books that I need to scan and get online. Give me a few days and we'll see what we can do!

Leia


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## RhineStone (Jan 6, 2010)

I have taken a photo of my son driving my mother's silver dapple mini, put cart and harness parts on it, and posted it on my website. Since it is a PDF, I couldn't figure out how to post it here.

http://rhinestone-ridge.wikispaces.com/Car...d+Harness+Parts (Please if I didn't post that right, let me know. I reread the rules, but couldn't find anything that fit this situation.)

These are acceptable terms for this turnout. If this was a draft horse turnout et al, there might be other terms used. Sometimes there are multiple terms for the same part. They are all correct, like winkers, blinkers and blinders. If you know of other names for the same parts, let us know, and we can see if we have heard of that, too.





In the process of ordering new harness and getting broken harness fixed, I have learned other parts that I haven't included in the photo. EVERY little piece has a name! (Of course...



) These are the most common parts referred to.

Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 6, 2010)

Wow, NICE harness Rhinestone and great labels! I especially like the one for "6 year old son" and "good-looking husband."



What brand is the harness?

The only label I would change is the "breastcollar strap"- that's more commonly called the neckstrap IMO, which works nicely when paired with the hip strap you've labeled.



Do you think it would be possible to edit in another photo of the horse harnessed but not hitched to better show the traces, breastcollar, and breeching? You obviously put a lot of time into that diagram and I think it's great!

Leia


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## RhineStone (Jan 6, 2010)

I looked for a photo harnessed but not put to, and I don't have one. I could take one, but our horses are SO fuzzy right now, I'm not sure you'd see the harness! Alax isn't as fuzzy, but being black, I doubt we'd see the harness very well. Eventually, I would like to get a better photo and do it again, one with less stuff in the background, proper dress, better lighting, etc. Using Patriot seemed to be better because of the contrast with the gray horse and black harness. I thought about using our big, white pinto horse (the harness is the same), but I figured this being a mini forum, people would want to see a mini.

I have heard of the neck strap, and thought also about putting that in. I was done with the diagram, however, by the time I thought about it. I've also heard of the hip strap being called the quarter strap, but I think that is more for the draft world.

The harness is a Driving Essentials Plus.

I hope this is beneficial for people. I had it done before I saw that you (Leia) were going to look for some in books. I figured that even if someone would beat me to the punch, that I could use it for my students.


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## MiLo Minis (Jan 6, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> The only label I would change is the "breastcollar strap"- that's more commonly called the neckstrap IMO, which works nicely when paired with the hip strap you've labeled.Leia


OR you could put breastcollar hangar strap which is what I know it as



Anyone else? Here's where you get into those multiple terms.


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## Marsha Cassada (Jan 6, 2010)

I like the extra terret ring on the neckstrap/breast collar strap. I've never seen a harness, in person, that had that. Sure would be helpful to keep the rein from getting caught on the shaft.

Any reason why/why not the neckstrap is not hooked to the check hook? (What in the heck is a water hook???)


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## albahurst (Jan 6, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> I have taken a photo of my son driving my mother's silver dapple mini, put cart and harness parts on it, and posted it on my website. Since it is a PDF, I couldn't figure out how to post it here. http://rhinestone-ridge.wikispaces.com/Car...d+Harness+Parts (Please if I didn't post that right, let me know. I reread the rules, but couldn't find anything that fit this situation.)
> 
> These are acceptable terms for this turnout. If this was a draft horse turnout et al, there might be other terms used. Sometimes there are multiple terms for the same part. They are all correct, like winkers, blinkers and blinders. If you know of other names for the same parts, let us know, and we can see if we have heard of that, too.
> 
> ...


Wow! This is great! Thank you so much for doing this and sharing with all of us!

Peggy


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## RhineStone (Jan 6, 2010)

Marsha Cassada said:


> I like the extra terret ring on the neckstrap/breast collar strap. I've never seen a harness, in person, that had that. Sure would be helpful to keep the rein from getting caught on the shaft.
> Any reason why/why not the neckstrap is not hooked to the check hook? (What in the heck is a water hook???)


The terret on the breastcollar/neck strap is nice. If you don't have one, you can put the rein under the strap and it will keep it from getting under the shaft. However, if you are doing dressage work, that can impede bending. I know of carriage drivers that have their harnesses custom built so that the rein terrets keep the reins in a straight line from the mouth to the saddle terrets. In other words, the rein terrets on the neckstrap don't break the line of draft and pull on the rein unnecessarily, creating drag and reducing the rein sensitivity with the horse. I think, at this point, it would be hard to find a harnessmaker that could do that for a mini harness. There is only so much space to work with.





A carriage harness is not designed to have the breastcollar/neck strap behind the check hook. The leather is too thick. Actually, on some harnesses, the strap is much thicker than that one so that the pressure applied by the strap is dispersed amongst more surface area, therefore being more comfortable. I have heard that putting the strap behind the hook actually pulls the breastcollar or saddle uncomfortably, but that was a number of years ago, maybe when mini harnesses weren't really designed to do that, but now they are?



I haven't found a reason why the neckstrap is put behind the check hook on a fine harness (breed show harness) except to show off the horse's shoulder. That's not a good enough reason for me.





The water hook is another term for the check hook. In the olden days, people would undo the check at the water hook to let their horses put their head down for a drink of water. I just learned that a few months ago. I love that there is SO much to learn about driving, even for those of us that have been doing it a while!





Good questions, Marsha!


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## MiLo Minis (Jan 7, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> I haven't found a reason why the neckstrap is put behind the check hook on a fine harness (breed show harness) except to show off the horse's shoulder. That's not a good enough reason for me.


I found one day that my horse Willie was having difficulty with his bend. He had always been quite capable of following the bend but he was growing older and being a stallion he was getting crestier. I had him checked out by the vet. I upped his arthritis medication. A chiropractor worked on him. A fella that was giving a clinic had me put him through a series of exercises that not long before Willie would have been able to do quite capably. By the end of the exercises he was far worse and almost falling down on the circle. Nothing worked. I drove him for my friend and mentor, Liz, and she immediately recognized that the breastcollar hangar was cutting into his crest, something that I couldn't see from the driver's seat as he had so much mane. That and we loosened his throatlatch one hole and installed a gullet strap. I rigged up a piece from an unused overcheck and pulled the hangar/neckstrap back and hooked it to the waterhook. This freed up his shoulder and within days he was feeling so much better he could get straight and not long after that he could easily bend again. That was a good reason for me.


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## RhineStone (Jan 7, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> RhineStone said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't found a reason why the neckstrap is put behind the check hook on a fine harness (breed show harness) except to show off the horse's shoulder. That's not a good enough reason for me.
> ...


My "A" size mini harness has a single neckstrap about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch wide (and therefore doesn't have rein terrets on it). I can see where it might "dig into" the wrong horse. The neckstrap that is in the diagram photo is "split" meaning that it is attached to the breastcollar in two places. This is a much thicker strap, about 1 1/4", is shaped wider and is doubled leather at the area around the crest. Even though my mom's mini in the diagram photo is an A (Patriot, also the Leader below), she required a B size breastcollar from the harnessmaker. She wanted the dual attachment and the wider neckstrap with rein terrets, regardless as to whether or not the breastcollar was a little long. The Freedom Collar by Camptown has a MUCH wider neckstrap, about 3 1/2", and is padded and doubled leather, so the likelihood of that cutting in would probably be minimal. (All these "measurements" are guesses, I'm not going out to the barn to measure for real.



)

You can see in the photo below of our tandem, that the leader has the A breastcollar with the single strap, and the wheeler has the B with the dual strap.






I mix and match parts for the carriage shows depending on the class. I used to only use my straight breastcollar for Turnout, but now I use the Freedom Collar for all classes (Alax moves SO much better in it) with the Driving Essentials split neckstrap in the above photo for Turnout. It is more refined looking. Then, for the other classes, I go back to the Camptown neckstrap, b/c I bet that it is more comfortable, and the other classes have more emphasis on the horse's performance than Turnout. In the photo below, we are running Cones, so I used the Camptown Freedom Collar and neckstrap. (Never mind my slouching, I was concentrating on "Going Fast!", not sitting up straight. Yes, I know, bad habit!)


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 7, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Marsha Cassada said:
> 
> 
> > Any reason why/why not the neckstrap is not hooked to the check hook? (What in the heck is a water hook???)
> ...


Oh, oh, I knew that one!



Darn it!



RhineStone said:


> My "A" size mini harness has a single neckstrap about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch wide (and therefore doesn't have rein terrets on it). I can see where it might "dig into" the wrong horse. The neckstrap that is in the diagram photo is "split" meaning that it is attached to the breastcollar in two places. This is a much thicker strap, about 1 1/4", is shaped wider and is doubled leather at the area around the crest. Even though my mom's mini in the diagram photo is an A (Patriot, also the Leader below), she required a B size breastcollar from the harnessmaker. She wanted the dual attachment and the wider neckstrap with rein terrets, regardless as to whether or not the breastcollar was a little long. The Freedom Collar by Camptown has a MUCH wider neckstrap, about 3 1/2", and is padded and doubled leather, *so the likelihood of that cutting in would probably be minimal.* (All these "measurements" are guesses, I'm not going out to the barn to measure for real.
> 
> 
> 
> )


On Kody it cuts in BECAUSE it's so wide! He has a narrow neck like a big horse with a natural hollow in front of his prominent withers and most of the time the front of that super-wide neck pad shoves into the back of his neck and front of his withers when he tries to raise his head at all. I don't think it gets comfortable for him until he raises the root of his neck to the utmost and powers into a really lengthened trot. I wish they'd shape it like a dog bone as so many other harnesses do to follow the natural contours of the equine neck.





I'm glad you mentioned that she had to order a different breastcollar to get the forked neckstrap, that was one of the things I liked about the harness you were showing. Nice to know that doesn't come standard!







RhineStone said:


> I mix and match parts for the carriage shows depending on the class. I used to only use my straight breastcollar for Turnout, but now I use the Freedom Collar for all classes (Alax moves SO much better in it) with the Driving Essentials split neckstrap in the above photo for Turnout. It is more refined looking. Then, for the other classes, I go back to the Camptown neckstrap, b/c I bet that it is more comfortable, and the other classes have more emphasis on the horse's performance than Turnout.


Do you have any pictures of the FC with the nicer neckstrap? I've thought of doing something like that.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Jan 7, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> I'm glad you mentioned that she had to order a different breastcollar to get the forked neckstrap, that was one of the things I liked about the harness you were showing. Nice to know that doesn't come standard!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The forked/split neckstrap is standard on the DE B-size harnesses, but actually my standard B harness is split, but doesn't have terrets, see last photo. I "steal" the one with the terrets off my mother's harness.



She "demanded" neck terrets. The more I look at photos though, the more I think that I should use the wider Camptown neckstrap in more classes. Since the DE "nicer" one is narrower, it "looks" like it cuts into Alax's neck more than the wider one that is in the Cones photo on the other post. I don't think it really does cut in, I think it is just "mushing" his mane down, but it makes him look a little "hollow" at that spot, which dressage judges don't like. Or is it just how he is carrying himself? What do you think?

This is the DE custom neckstrap with rein terrets. I don't like that gap on the front strap. I don't remember what happens if I take it up, though. Maybe I'll have to punch a half hole. I think we have tried to adjust the neck strap, but the collar just "settles" where it wants to on Alax's chest once in draft.






This is the standard split neckstrap on the DE B-size harness. Note where the rein lies w/o the rein terrets. This was a Working Pleasure class that I used this neckstrap for, so the rings didn't interfere with the line of draft. (This is also the class that I felt I got dinked on, but that is another story). I put the reins under the strap, but I'm not sure I would do that again in a pleasure class where I am trying to achieve bending. Just keep the horse on the bit, and the rein won't get caught.






p.s. I don't use that hat for this turnout anymore. The off-white is too white. I wish that I had a non-professional photo of my favorite turnout to post...



.

Edited to add: WOW, I just saw these two photos "together" for the first time, and how much better conditioned Alax looks in the one above. That was taken in mid Aug, and the bottom one was taken on Father's Day in June!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 7, 2010)

Hmm, I see your point. The narrower one actually does not look better, at least on your larger mini! The same might not be true for Kody but I think I'm going to stick with my original plot to have Janie make me a custom neckstrap for the FC. Probably easier all around.





Now back to your regularly scheduled verbage topic.





Leia


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