# I usually don't post political topics



## Connie P (Jun 19, 2011)

Please keep all responses nice and be respective of others. I am not posting this to have a rude, disrespectful debate. I just received this in an email today and it made me think again.................Please know that I respect everyone's views and opinions and do not pass judgment should someones thoughts not mirror mine.

Happy Fathers Day to all!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subj: FW: Where are his girl friends

Even I have a past and I'm a nobody

A SLEEPER AMONG US :

This is a very interesting article!

Obama: Where are his girl friends?????

Where are his girl friends????? Strange that none have popped up!!!!

Strange to the point of being down right WEIRD!

OK... this is past the 'birthers' questions.... this is just plain old

common sense, no political agendas for either side.

Just common knowledge for citizens of a country, especially American

citizens, who even know that Andrew Jackson's wife smoked a corn cob pipe

and was accused of adultery, or that Lincoln never went to school or

Kennedy wore a back brace or Truman played the piano.

We are Americans! We are known for our humanitarian interests and caring

for our 'fellow man.' We care, but none of us know one single humanizing

fact about the history of our own president.

Honestly, and this is a personal thing...but it's niggled at me for ages

that no one who ever dated him ever showed up. The simple fact of his

charisma, which caused the women to be drawn to him so obviously during

his campaign, looks like some lady would not have missed the opportunity.....

We all know about JFK's magnetism, McCain was no monk, Palin's courtship

and even her athletic prowess were probed. Biden's aneurisms are no

secret. Look at Cheney and Clinton--we all know about their heart

problems. How could I have left out Wild Bill before or during the White House?

Nope... not one lady has stepped up and said, "He was soooo shy," or

"What a great dancer!" Now look at the rest of this..... no classmates,

not even the recorder for the Columbia class notes ever heard of him.

I just don't know about this fellow.

Who was the best man at his wedding? Start there. Then check groomsmen.

Then get the footage of the graduation ceremony.

Has anyone talked to the professors? It is odd that no one is bragging

that they knew him or taught him or lived with him.

When did he meet Michele and how? Are there photos? Every president

gives to the public all their photos, etc. for their library. What has

he released?

And who in heck voted for him to be the most popular man in 2010?????

Does this make you wonder?

Ever wonder why no one ever came forward from Obama's past, saying they

knew him, attended school with him, was his friend, etc. ? Not one person

has ever come forward from his past.

VERY, VERY STRANGE… This should really be a cause for great concern. To

those who voted for him, you may have elected an unqualified, inexperienced

shadow man.

Did you see a picture called The Manchurian Candidate?

Let's face it. As insignificant as we all are... someone whom we went to

school with remembers our name or face ... someone remembers we were the

clown or the dork or the brain or the quiet one or the bully or something

about us.

George Stephanopoulos of ABC News said the same thing during the 2008

campaign. He questions why no one has acknowledged the president was in

their classroom or ate in the same cafeteria or made impromptu speeches

on campus. Stephanopoulos also was a classmate of Obama at Columbia--the

class of 1984. He says he never had a single class with him.

While he is such a great orator, why doesn't anyone in Obama's college

class remember him? And, why won't he allow Columbia to release his

records?

NOBODY REMEMBERS OBAMA AT COLUMBIA

Looking for evidence of Obama's past, Fox News contacted 400 Columbia

University students from the period when Obama claims to have been there,

but none remembered him. For example, Wayne Allyn Root was, like Obama,

a political science major at Columbia, who also graduated in 1983. In

2008, Root says of Obama, "I don't know a single person at Columbia that

knew him, and they all know me. I don't have a classmate who ever knew

Barack Obama at Columbia ... EVER!

Nobody recalls him. Root adds that he was also, like Obama, "Class of '83

political science, pre-law" and says, "You don't get more exact or closer

than that. Never met him in my life, don't know anyone who ever met him.."

At the class reunion, our 20th reunion five years ago, who was asked to

be the speaker of the class? Me. No one ever heard of Barack! And five

years ago, nobody even knew who he was. The guy who writes the class

notes, who's kind of the, as we say in New York, 'the macha' who knows

everybody, has yet to find a person, a human who ever met him."

Obama's photograph does not appear in the school's yearbook, and Obama

consistently declines requests to talk about his years at Columbia ,

provide school records, or provide the name of any former classmates or

friends while at Columbia ...

NOTE: Root graduated as valedictorian from his high school,

Thornton-Donovan School , then graduated from Columbia University in 1983

as a political science major in the same class in which Barack Hussein

Obama states he was.

Some other interesting questions…

Why was Obama's law license inactivated in 2002?

Why was Michelle's law license inactivated by court order?

It is circulating that according to the U.S. Census, there is only one

Barack Obama but 27 Social Security numbers and over 80 aliases.

WHAT!?

The Social Security number he uses now originated in Connecticut where he

is never reported to have lived.

No wonder all his records are sealed!

Please continue sending this out to everyone. Somewhere, someone had to

know him in school...before he "reorganized" Chicago and burst upon the

scene at the 2004 Democratic Convention and made us swoon with his charm,

poise, and speaking pizzazz.


----------



## minimomNC (Jun 19, 2011)

Check here

While I know most people want to believe everything bad, I usually try to check them out. So here is what Snopes has to say for the other side if the story.


----------



## ohmt (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm sorry, but this is the funniest thing i've read yet. Good grief. How paranoid can people get?

I find it even more funny that his citizenship is under such scrutiny by the public when it would have had to go through heavy inspection by a bunch of 'agencies' (like the CIA for example) before he even became a candidate for presidency. Why do people think they know more about birth certificates and the presidents origins better than the people who were trained and have the resources to do so? Riddle me that one.

I think Obamas handling of the whole ordeal has been nothing but classy-he said pertaining to this very subject, "we are not going to be able to solve our problems if we get distracted by side shows and carnival barkers". That's exactly all this email is-carnival barker.

I do appreciate the first part of your post Connie, but the only thing this email makes me feel is sadness that someone even started it.


----------



## Connie P (Jun 19, 2011)

Thanks for the post minimomNC. Interesting.

My philosphy is usually there are two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in between.

I very much respect each individuals opinions.


----------



## minimomNC (Jun 19, 2011)

Law Licence

This addresses the Obama's Law Licence.

Connie P let me say that I am not posting these links in any way to say your wrong. I think its good that you posted the email and that I can show the other side and its a positive talk about what is in both posts. I truly believe that if people would talk and look at both sides more often, there would be less need to fight. While I am not deep into politics, I am not going to fight anyone over what I do or don't believe. If in your heart you believe what you believe, then thats wonderful. But its also wonderful that I believe in what I believe. Doesn't make either person wrong, makes us human.

Thank you and have a wonderful day.


----------



## tagalong (Jun 19, 2011)

> Connie P let me say that I am not posting these links in any way to say your wrong. I think its good that you posted the email and that I can show the other side and its a positive talk about what is in both posts.


Exactly right... it is always wise to understand that 99% of those conspiracy-driven viral emails are not based on fact. They usually play to people's fears and assorted rumours and depend on no one bothering to check how true they are - and just passing it along as if it were true. Any/all of them should be treated with suspicion and be checked for FACTS. Something that the viral emailers never want you to do - and/or do not care about.

I doubt if many remember me from one college I was at. Maybe no one. I worked hard and kept to myself. I was not into any of the social aspects of that life. So I guess it could easily be said that I made it all up as well...








> The Social Security number he uses now originated in Connecticut where heis never reported to have lived.


Not true in any way. Here is snopes' review of just one of the many SSN "scandals" that viral emails try to make you believe. SSN number



> It is circulating that according to the U.S. Census, there is only oneBarack Obama but 27 Social Security numbers and over 80 aliases.


Hmmmm. Another version of this email I saw said there were 80 Social Security numbers and 25 aliases. Beware of anything that starts with phrases like "it is circulating..." or "they say that" or phrases to that effect. The original writer knows that what they are presenting is nonsense - but couches it in such a way that may suggest it is real in some way. Plus others may add to that email along the way.

If any of that lame ^ SSN stuff was even _remotely_ true, the McCain/Palin campaign would have found it out and used it - _and rightly so._ They could find nothing like that and did not use that info - _because there was no truth to it whatsoever._ Plus, as *ohmt* pointed out, the CIA and other agencies check into everyone's credentials - how can they have missed something that obvious that some emailer "discovered'?





Both snopes and Politifact are bi-partisan and examine things about all "sides". They are good places to check things out.



> I very much respect each individuals opinions.


That is the way to have a good, balanced discussion, *Connie P*.





I would not worry about viral emails, though. Anything without links provided that verify what is said is just trying to mess with you and does not care about truth or facts. As I said, they depend on you *not* checking it out...



...let alone discussing it like this!


----------



## kaykay (Jun 19, 2011)

Also there was an interview with Michelle Obama on tv that talked all about how they met, dated etc.


----------



## susanne (Jun 19, 2011)

This is NOT true.

A coworker of my husband went to high school with "Barry" Obama and brought her yearbook, complete with his photos, to work with her.

I, too, respect the opinions of others, but we need to base our opinions on fact, not rumor.


----------



## andi (Jun 19, 2011)

While I trust you and believe you Connie that you don’t intend to offend anyone or pass judgment because someone’s opinion doesn’t mirror yours, that is exactly what you are doing. You have forwarded and help spread completely untrue words about a person because his opinion doesn’t mirror yours. The information is readily available to disprove what was written and anyone who is looking at it in an unbiased light would find it easily. I am not saying this to attack anyone or make anyone a democrat, but to make everyone really think about their actions and what they are doing and saying. There are evil people and ideas in this world that have no power if they don’t have support behind them. The majority of people are good and honest and would never knowingly support them, so things like this email and other jokes that seem harmless are used. They get people to pick sides based on rumors and lies. There are so many real issues that could be discussed, but this constant focus on irrelevant lies and fear mongering are an insult to all of us.

While the idea that there are two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in between is often true and a nice politically correct statement, it does not always apply, a lie is a lie.


----------



## Jill (Jun 19, 2011)

When it comes to Obama and where is his this or where is his that... *Where's his ability to lead??? *Hope & Change wasn't all it was cracked up to be, huh? Seems to me that while nothing has improved, many very important things have gotten much worse. I can't wait to vote next fall.


----------



## Connie P (Jun 19, 2011)

I really like taking a look at both sides and am very appreciative of the opposing side of the email that I received. Although I am not an Obama supporter, once again I do respect all opinions and like to look at every side of an issue.

Andi I did not post this to help spread untrue words. I posted it for a nice talk about what is true and untrue and minimom posted the opposing side in a very kind way.

I do not believe everything I read. I like to read all sides and then form my own opinion.



Please know that I am not being nasty. I appreciate your thoughts also.  Just having some back issues today and reading a little politics.

I never said the email was true.  Just said I wanted to share an email that I received. Maybe I should have made myself a little clearer about the mirrored thoughts. Like I said I am not an Obama supporter, but it wasn't based on this email.

Thanks tagalong. I really was just looking for a nice balanced discussion. I do realized alot of emails are viral.





I hope everyone has had a wonderful day! And thank you for keeping the discussion low key and informative. I really have enjoyed taking a look at all the facts and have changed my initial opinion of what I read earlier on this particular topic in the email. I forget about snopes. I should know to check there first!


----------



## Riverrose28 (Jun 19, 2011)

Anyone can and will write anything and send it! During the Clinton terms I received e-mails telling me about how much money Hillary was spending, all rumors. Then during the last Bush years more e-mails about how much Mrs. Bush was spending on stupid things like hairdressers, etc. It is and was all rumors. Now I receive e-mails about our sitting President and his wife, all rumors. Seems to me you can't beleive all that is written until you follow up and get the facts, for yourself. Politics anymore is a mute subject for me.


----------



## Jill (Jun 20, 2011)

Riverrose28 said:


> Anyone can and will write anything and send it! During the Clinton terms I received e-mails telling me about how much money Hillary was spending, all rumors. Then during the last Bush years more e-mails about how much Mrs. Bush was spending on stupid things like hairdressers, etc. It is and was all rumors. Now I receive e-mails about our sitting President and his wife, all rumors. Seems to me you can't beleive all that is written until you follow up and get the facts, for yourself. Politics anymore is a mute subject for me.


The bad news about our economy and the high unemployment numbers aren't rumors.


----------



## minimomNC (Jun 20, 2011)

And then you look at the full picture instead of just one time and the price went up and down several years before as well as after. So one price doesn't always show the entire scope of things.


----------



## Jill (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't think all that "HOPE & CHANGE" is filling many gas tanks or going too far at the grocery store these days.

Here's a measure of the first 2 years of our current one-term president... a pretty "full" picture, and 6mos out from the picture below, it's even worse:


----------



## heartkranch (Jun 20, 2011)

hmm. looks like Bush so far had the highest gas and then right before elections were over the gas dropped the lowest. LOL


----------



## minimomNC (Jun 20, 2011)

I never mentioned Hope & change, all I did was show the other side of that one price in 2008.

But I do have one questions Jill, if Republicans ruled the earth, would gas still be at $1.61?


----------



## Jill (Jun 20, 2011)

minimomNC said:


> I never mentioned Hope & change, all I did was show the other side of that one price in 2008.
> 
> But I do have one questions Jill, if Republicans ruled the earth, would gas still be at $1.61?


Well, I don't expect too many Obama voters to mention "Hope & Change" these days, Karen. It makes them look silly.

I didn't realize the GOP was out to rule the world. Maybe you're on a more inside track than I am.

If the GOP wins in 2012, I think we will have a much brighter economic future than the reality of Obamanomics _(a/k/a trickle up poverty)_ can provide. For example, if Perry from TX runs and gets the nomination, maybe he can do for the Nation what he did for his state. TX created more new jobs than any other state, and by a long shot. In fact, *37%* of all new jobs in our Nation were created in TX. Our Nation could use a common sense conservative with that type of talent!

Like I've asked before, what's better now than it was two and a half years ago? And what's worse?


----------



## minimomNC (Jun 20, 2011)

You have no idea how I voted, are you sure I voted for Obama, have you read anywhere who I voted for?


----------



## Jill (Jun 20, 2011)

minimomNC said:


> You have no idea how I voted, are you sure I voted for Obama, have you read anywhere who I voted for?


I really don't know if you even bothered to vote, Karen, but if you did, I've got a hunch. Does it matter what I think? Shouldn't.


----------



## tagalong (Jun 20, 2011)

> But I do have one questions Jill, if Republicans ruled the earth, would gas still be at $1.61?


No, it wouldn't. It would likley be more or less where it is now - with all the ups and downs that have always happened. No president has ever been able to control gas prices - so why on earth is Obama being blamed for something that is out of his hands? Oh wait - you are not supposed to realize that. Oil is an international commodity with the price determined by international markets. A President can tap into the National Reserves to lower prices temporarily (as Bush did) but that is just a short term band-aid and does very little to affect overall prices.



> And then *you look at the full picture* instead of just one time and the price went up and down several years before as well as after. So one price doesn't always show the entire scope of things.


*minimomnc* - don't be silly - you are not supposed to look at the big picture! That would be counter-productive and just prove that gas/oil prices are always in flux. July 2008 had the highest gas prices yet - who do we blame for that? It must have been Obama's fault!!! Nope, It wasn't even Bush's fault. If Obama tapped into the National Reserves, then no doubt he would be in trouble for - you guessed it - tapping into the National Reserves. It is just a neverending, squeaky hamster wheel.

Likewise, the recession ( a lot of it worldwide) that was already underway would have happened anyway... and if McCain had been elected, everyone would be blaming _him_ for it. In the greater scheme of things, the big picture does not really change no matter who is in office. The nuances may be different - but the recession would still be here. Thinking that the Republicans could have waved their magic wand and changed everything overnight and overcome this recession is actually very "hopey changey" - ( I hate that cutesy term) speaking of which...



> Well, I don't expect too many Obama voters to mention "Hope & Change" these days, Karen. It makes them look silly.


Respectfully, it looks even sillier to constantly be beating others over the head with the "hopey changey" thing. Over and over and over again. It was a campaign slogan - a hopeful one. Everyone is all about hope and change for every election. No matter what side you are on. Fox News uses_ fair and balanced_ as their slogan - is that always true? Not by a long shot. NO media is always fair & balanced - no matter how many times they hit your over the head with their advertising. Roger Ailes is not about being fair and balanced and has stated that repeatedly and issued orders to his employees about it as well. Contrary to his own advertising.






Back on topic...

I may not be Obama's biggest fan, but you can check on Politifact to see what promises he has kept, are in the works, dead in the water, never going to happen, outright lied about etc. Here. The two biggest ones are a form of healthcare and killing Osama Bin Laden. Promises kept. Many not kept. Some ignored. The same way it is with all politicians.

But broad statements saying that _everything_ is "worse" are neither accurate nor insightful.


----------



## Sonya (Jun 20, 2011)

I do believe O has a very questionable backround, I also believe that Jimmy Carter will be thanking him soon for taking over as the worst president ever.

It is no secret that I'm a conservative, aside from my political views, there is something about O that honestly makes me shudder....call it a hunch I guess. Have you ever met someone who you just "knew" there was something off about them, something maybe even evil?

I know if my dogs were in the same room with him they would either bite him or run and hide (my dogs love people but they also can sense character better than anyone).


----------



## Jill (Jun 20, 2011)

Sonya said:


> I do believe O has a very questionable backround, I also believe that Jimmy Carter will be thanking him soon for taking over as the worst president ever.
> 
> It is no secret that I'm a conservative, aside from my political views, there is something about O that honestly makes me shudder....call it a hunch I guess. Have you ever met someone who you just "knew" there was something off about them, something maybe even evil?
> 
> I know if my dogs were in the same room with him they would either bite him or run and hide (my dogs love people but they also can sense character better than anyone).


Amen, Sonya, my right minded friend!!!


----------



## tagalong (Jun 20, 2011)

> I do believe O has a very questionable backround,


Well, his background has been put under an electron microscope, shredded, analyzed, put in a blender, baked, fired, fricasseed, gone over with a fine toothed comb, dissected and fileted - and even the most dedicated Republican researcher was not able to find anything truly frightening/alarming/Communist/terrorist etc. The McCain/Palin campaign found nothing that they could use - and if there was something there, they would have used it. Ditto for other agencies like the CIA and FBI and Secret Service. I guess as long as conspiracy flogging talking heads deal in rumours and make "suggestions" - and viral emails are circulated as fact... people will always have doubts. But seeing someone - a President - as truly "evil"?

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree... I wonder what happened to "respect the office if not the man".


----------



## Sonya (Jun 20, 2011)

> But seeing someone - a President - as truly "evil"?


yep! Hitler? of course I'm not comparing him to Hitler, just sayin'

As I said, it's no secret that I'm a conservative...but even Bill Clinton had likeable qualities and I think Jimmy Carter is a wonderful man. Did not agree with either politically though.


----------



## weebiscuit (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't know if gas prices would drop under a Republican administration, but I know that the Dems have NEVER been in favor of increasing our own off-shore drilling.

I am an Independent with Libertarian leanings. In the past I actually voted for Clinton, for one term. I even voted for Carter, but who knew??? George W. Bush was the first president I ever voted for for two terms, and I didn't vote for McCain in '08.... I wrote in Ron Paul. So, I'm all over the board politically, but liberal is at the bottom for me.

I think Obama is a terrible president, who seems more concerned with public appearances, his golf game, and kowtowing to middle eastern potentates than he is with the terrible economic woes in our nation. He simply doesn't have a flippin' CLUE as to how to govern. He is NOT presidential... he's more "celebrity" than leader. His top advisors seem to be union bosses,(Richard Trumka, who brags about meetings at the White House at least once a week), radical extremists, (William Ayers), andbillionaire financiers who claim openly that they HAVE toppled governments and want nothing more than a one-world currency and a one-world government. (George Soros).

Obama *is* evil, IMO. He's used his good looks, his charisma and charm to totally snowball a lot of american voters, who will continue to defend this charlatan simply because they want to avoid looking stupid by having voted for him.


----------



## Sonya (Jun 20, 2011)

> Obama *is* evil, IMO. He's used his good looks, his charisma and charm to totally snowball a lot of american voters, who will continue to defend this charlatan simply because they want to avoid looking stupid by having voted for him






where is that like button?


----------



## tagalong (Jun 20, 2011)

HUH? Soros is not an "advisor". Neither is Ayers - he was in the distant past and not exactly an advisor or close acquaintance in any way - and yet it is always a good "hot button" thing to bring him up. Union bosses have had meetings with many Presidents. All of that sounds rather Beckian in its conspiracy leanings.



> yep! Hitler? of course I'm not comparing him to Hitler, just sayin'


I mentioned specifically - A PRESIDENT. You came back with Hitler. It seems you are making that comparison - just based on your own words. Meh - it is okay - Beck and others have drummed that point home time and time again.

I am hearing an awful lot of Glann Beck's favourite lectures and conspiracies here... his specialties being comparing everything to Nazi Germany and evil advisors/czars. Even people who are not advisors/czars.

And yet he conveniently overlooks the fact that Roger Ailes manipulates Fox News and the Republicans to suit his own agenda _by his own admission_... but then, Ailes is his boss so what can he say?



> Obama *is* evil, IMO. He's used his good looks, his charisma and charm to totally snowball a lot of american voters, who will continue to defend this charlatan simply because they want to avoid looking stupid by having voted for him.


Many said the same thing about Bush. There was no truth to it then and IMO there is no truth to it now.

All Presidents have some degree of charisma and charm - they have to. As I said , it is easy to check up on what promises he has made - and kept, ignored etc. but it seems people would rather deal in conspiracies, rumours etc. *FACTS are easy to read - anf yet they get ignored*. Judge the facts, not the hunches and "evil". ALL politicians are charlatans to a certain extent - and anyone who does not realize that is truly not paying attention... to anyone in office. Does the fact that they are R or D or Tea Party mean they always speak the truth? If you seriously believe that, I have some swampland in Arizona that I'd like to sell you...

And now that the comparisons to "evil" and Hitler have come up, the chances of having a reasonable discussion have all but evaporated.







> know that the Dems have NEVER been in favor of increasing our own off-shore drilling.


Not exactly right.

Again, this is easy to check out. Michele Bachman said that only ONE permit had been issued during the Obama administration. That is a complete lie (speaking of charlatans) - I guess that she thinks no one will bother to check on any facts and she can just say what she pleases... kind of like a viral email.

You can check it out all over the place but Politifact has everything in one place with links provided. And yes, Politifact skewers Obama as well - they are decidedly non-partisan.

39 shallow water permits have been issued in the past year. They were not affected by the moratorium after the Gulf Oil DIsaster.

Things slowed down after the disaster, but are slowly picking up again. It is easier just to quote this...



> in all, BOEMRE has received 45 deepwater drilling permit applications that are subject to the new regulations. These include applications to drill new wells, bypasses, and sidetracks. Twenty-four of these permits have been returned to the operator with requests for additional information (most regarding subsea containment). BOEMRE has approved seven of these permits (for six unique wells), with 12 applications pending.
> Again, these are deepwater permits issued after the moratorium. The Obama administration issued lots of deepwater permits prior to that.
> 
> In addition, BOEMRE has received 31 deepwater drilling permit applications for activities such as drilling water injection wells and drilling from a fixed rig with a surface blowout preventer that were allowed under the moratorium. BOEMRE has approved 28 of these permits.
> ...


Facts instead of rhetoric. And yes, I have applied that to both "sides" over the years.


----------



## HGFarm (Jun 20, 2011)

Ditto weebuscuit!

Our country is hemorrhaging to death. Property values continue to go down, while taxes go up. Jobs continue to go overseas, unemployment is high (I would like to see what it really is, not just what is reported from a gov't report), the trade deficit is still climbing as are energy prices, health insurance, etc...

We need answers and most of all we need action. There was a recent warning that another 'economic tsunami' could occur, five times worse than in 2008... what then? The current government projected an unemployment rate of 7.3% for Sept. 2010 with a 'recovery or stimulus plan' or 9% without the plan. After 20 months of the 'stimulus' the rate in Sept. 2010 was 9.6%. Sounds like the person doing the math was the same one that predicted The End of Days for May 21, 2011. The federal deficit is already WAY worse than the Bush era ever dreamed of. With the current spending, the budget will add twice the debt that Pres. Bush had over the same number of years.

The promise to stop jobs from being sent overseas has not happened and they continue to flow out of the country like a broken water main. The promises made to focus on the economy here and jobs has gone by the wayside. On June 8, 2009, a promise was made to create or save 600,000 jobs. Really? Where?!

The President's popularity hasn't dropped from 78% to 54% in a year without a reason (or two or three) - the steepest drop in 50 years.

He called for an end to America's wars overseas, however Iraq and Afghnistan remain conflict zones and now Libya and Pakistan have been added to the list. Our 'anti war' President has extended the military operations overseas.

I for one am sick, sick, sick of the false promises made by politicians while the country continues to spiral downward at a faster and faster rate. In my opinion, they all lie to get elected. You know how I can tell? Their lips are moving.

Will step off the box now... this all gives me a headache. People need to get their heads out of the sand and take a good look at what is going on, no matter what political party it is.........


----------



## Sonya (Jun 20, 2011)

> I mentioned specifically - A PRESIDENT. You came back with Hitler. It seems you are making that comparison


http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/adolf-hitler-becomes-president-of-germany

Hitler was a president of Germany. And I wasn't making a comparison as I said...there is evil in alot of politicians, be it of either party in the US, and all over the world, years past and today.

You can have your opinion that you think Obama is wonderful and the greatest US president ever, I can have mine that yes, I do think the man is evil and the worst leader of my great country! In the end though numbers don't lie:

*Come the 2012 election cycle, Barack Obama is likely to be facing the highest unemployment rate that any US President has faced since World War II. Conference Board analysts expect that the jobless rate will still be a lofty 8.5 percent come 2012, down from the 9 percent it is currently. *

I can provide the link if you like.

of course unemployment rates do not constitue evil, as I said this is my personal opinion and one that many share.


----------



## weebiscuit (Jun 20, 2011)

tagalong said:


> HUH? Soros is not an "advisor". Neither is Ayers - he was in the distant past and not exactly an advisor or close acquaintance in any way - and yet it is always a good "hot button" thing to bring him up. Union bosses have had meetings with many Presidents. All of that sounds rather Beckian in its conspiracy leanings.
> 
> I am hearing an awful lot of Glann Beck's favourite lectures and conspiracies here... his specialties being comparing everything to Nazi Germany and evil advisors/czars. Even people who are not advisors/czars.
> 
> *FACTS are easy to read - anf yet they get ignored*.


How much online research have you done about Soros and Obama? You are extremely naive if you deny that Soros is one of Obama's allies, supporters, and YES, advisors. It seems to me that YOU are the one ignoring the facts.

I can't stand Glen Beck. Watched his show two times a few years ago and he gagged me. He's the alarmist Chicken Little of the airways, crying "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

I am not a person who tolerates fabrications and lies about either party. I've gotten into heated arguments with a lot of people who claim Obama is a Muslim, or that he was born in Kenya. I don't believe any of that nonsense. I believe he's a christian, I believe he's American. But I also believe he's a little puppet whose political career skyrocketed from being a "community organizer" to a senator with a completely undistinguished record to become the president simply because the liberals knew a cash cow when they saw one. As I said before, he has NO presidential qualities. He was simply "promoted" by the money machine in the liberal party, and George Soros was among them and remains extremely close to Obama. This president was packaged like no other president in our history. The problem is that once he was "unpackaged" we all realized we'd been sold damaged goods.


----------



## Riverrose28 (Jun 20, 2011)

Jill said:


> The bad news about our economy and the high unemployment numbers aren't rumors.


Sadly I must say I know first hand about how bad the economy and the unemployment is. My husband works six days a week, 10 hour days just to keep us afloat. My daughter and her husband are about to lose their home becuase son in law has been laid off for so long. Please don't preach to me, I know first hand. politics on this or any forum is mute to me, there is no bending on the opposing team. I could give you many details, but it is all personal, so don't make assumptions.


----------



## tagalong (Jun 20, 2011)

> How much online research have you done about Soros and Obama? You are extremely naive if you deny that Soros is one of Obama's allies, supporters, and YES, advisors. It seems to me that YOU are the one ignoring the facts.



You have not been paying attention - I look into EVERYTHING and I am not "naive". I cannot be spoonfed partisan BS from any side. I am a born skeptic and cynic - of everyone and everything. Always have been, always will be. Suggesting that I am naive would crack my friends and family up. They are weary of my cynical outlook on most things - especially politics.

All that being said, Soros is not the guy who is _constantly_ whispering in Obama's ear as many would have you believe. Nor is he the greatest threat to national security as many bloggers and extremely partisan websites assure you. That is just more of the endless conspiracy theories. Soros is often critical of Obama - but Beck has been waging a great conspiracy attack about their "special" connections that many have simply picked up on and run with. More rhetoric. Google Soros and Obama and look at the first few entries - all Beck's website or other extreme right blogs/websites. Soros is far less of an influence on anything to the left than Roger Ailes is on Fox and the Republicans to the right. People need to do more reading about him, as well. Far & Balanced... uh huh. That is not what he believes in. He says Jump! and sadly, some Republicans say - _How high?!_



> I can't stand Glen Beck. Watched his show two times a few years ago and he gagged me. He's the alarmist Chicken Little of the airways, crying "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"


Exactly right - and add in Nazi Germany comparisons about everyone and everything. Even Ailes got tired of that.



> I am not a person who tolerates fabrications and lies about either party.


Same here - as I have illustrated in many posts. It is just that in these threads where viral emails often rule, most of the stuff that needs to be addressed tends to come from the right. I prefer facts as opposed to rhetoric - no matter what "side" or angle is involved.



> As I said before, he has NO presidential qualities


.
Who does, in your opinion? Who exemplifies "presidential qualities"? A certain amount of charm and personality must go along with that. John Kerry sure did not have it. Ick. Edwards? No comment about that jerk. What were the Dems thinking then? It boggles the mind...



> This president was packaged like no other president in our history. The problem is that once he was "unpackaged" we all realized we'd been sold damaged goods.


Damaged goods? No more than most other politicians. Exceptions being the truly damaged, rotten goods like the aforementioned John Edwards. At least Obama is not toe-tapping under washroom stalls or sexting pics of his junk all over Twitter.





The only reason he was "packaged" in that way is that we now have far more avenues of publicity and media than ever - and after Kerry/Edwards, _anyone_ would have been a star. Every campaign is a "package". Media has increased in even more ways than were available in 2008 - and as the internet and communication runs amok, so does the advertising and packaging. Sarah Palin is another one who has been carefully packaged and "presented" along the way... there is no denying that. You watch - the pimping and "packaging" for 2012 will be like nothing you have ever seen... on both "sides". Or maybe I should say *all* "sides" - as the Tea Party will distance itself from mainstream Republicans.

And I predict that the most over-used and abused phrase in the next year will be "lamestream media"...


----------



## Jill (Jun 20, 2011)

Wee, Sonya, Laurie -- I think you three have made excellent points!!!

At the risk of further endearing myself to the resident democrats and liberals, it's mind boggling to think that any American could be sincerely pleased with the job Obama has done.


----------



## vickie gee (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow. After reading so many posts I lost track and had to go back to Connie's original post. For sure I do not ponder. Being a far right extreme conservative I don't have to ponder these things. Not looking for a debate or an argument. I use Google to see how politicians voted (or NOT) on issues. I use our U.S. Constitution, my Bible, my brain, and my heart to decide how I vote. But that's just me!


----------



## weebiscuit (Jun 20, 2011)

This reply is to tagalong.... I tried clicking on "multiquote" in your post because there were several things I wanted to respond to but it didn't work for me!

Anyway, all I wanted to say is that I really like you! We will never agree on some points (Soros, for example), but I believe you *think* the way I do a lot. I am a member of another forum where the posts get VERY political, and several have accused me of being a "flaming liberal" because I have defended Obama in light of their absurd claims which, as you stated, are often the result of idiotic viral emails. And, I am NOT a liberal!

I always check the Politifact website. I love that place, as it is really one of the only sites that tries to remain completely inpartial. When I hear someone quote something from the Huffington Post website or, conversely, the Freedom Works website, I shudder. Partial websites, biased reports.

You asked who I would consider to have presidential qualities. Well, not Obama. I don't feel he had enough experience in the political arena to take on this job. At this point, there are no conservative candidates I am even remotely excited about. Romney? Uh... didn't he lose LAST time? I like a lot of Herman Cain, except for two things: 1. He is anti-gay, and 2. He doesn't believe the Federal Reserve needs to be audited, and I firmly believe it does.

Palin? She's too controversial to ever be elected, and IMO, she could not be an effective leader if she would be elected. Barbara Bachman? Right now, she's looking better than anyone else the conservatives are promoting. You said she wrongly said only 1 drilling permit was issued by the Obama admin. She was NOT wrong... she was talking about DEEP WATER drilling, and only one of those permits was issued. Shallow water ones, yes, but not deep water permits.

I am not a liberal because I feel the liberals have contributed to the downfall of society with their nannie-state "cradle to grave" welfare system. However, I'm not a conservative because I am totally FOR gay rights. I have three sets of friends, two of whom are gay couples and one is a lesbian couple and I have a gay cousin. I literally despise the conservative stand on homosexuals. I also am NOT a fan of abortion, but I believe it should be an issue between a woman and her conscience and NOT a political issue. And the only reason it IS a political issue is because it's a religious issue, and that brings me to another reason to have a lot of problems with the conservative party, and that is the influence the christian faction in the nation has over it.

I am sick and tired of the arguments that our nation was founded on "christian principles." I am sick and tired of trying to convince people that George Washington, T. Jefferson, B. Franklin, and many others, were Deists. I don't believe religion should have ANY place in our national elections. In fact, I'd take it so far as to pass a law making it illegal to even inquire into a candidate's religilous affiliation! LOL! (Just kidding there, but it's how strongly I feel about it).

And the last thing I wanted to make note of here is that on a variety of websites I visit, it seems that there are two sides: liberal or conservative, and the most grievous thing is that people can't seem to disagree without resorting to calling each other terrible names and spewing hatred. I try not to become involved in that type of vitriol, and instead I try to *like* the person even if I may disagree with his views. I hope that anyone here reading my posts will feel free to totally disagree with me on political topics, but that we may come together on other topics in which we can find a common ground, whether it be our pets, horses, families, gardens, hobbies, or whatever.


----------



## tagalong (Jun 21, 2011)

> You said she wrongly said only 1 drilling permit was issued by the Obama admin. She was NOT wrong... she was talking about DEEP WATER drilling, and only one of those permits was issued. Shallow water ones, yes, but not deep water permits.


Actually, *weebiscuit* - check out the Politifact links I provided back in that post - and note that Michele Bachmann was, indeed, wrong. I will quote part of it again...



> in all, BOEMRE has received 45 deepwater drilling permit applications that are subject to the new regulations. These include applications to drill new wells, bypasses, and sidetracks. Twenty-four of these permits have been returned to the operator with requests for additional information (most regarding subsea containment). BOEMRE has approved seven of these permits (for six unique wells), with 12 applications pending.
> Again, these are *deepwater permits issued after the moratorium. The Obama administration issued lots of deepwater permits prior to that.*


You can check it out there for yourself.





Now, you see - THAT ^ is what I like - a good discussion without sneering and namecalling and insults - the way many such discussions here have sadly gone. I like you too, *weebiscuit*. You and *miniwhinny * may be to the right of me politically, but we can respect each others' opinions and also realize that not everything we are "told" is true - no matter who it is about. Obama may have been "packaged" - but I wager that no other president has been insulted/slandered/ridiculed as much as he has. His race, his religion, his background - everything has been held up to scorn and multiple conspiracy theories and accusations. I did not care for a lot of the crap about W either - but the Obama-bashing has gone waaaay beyond that. Times a million. Some of it has made me.... sad, for want of a better word. Whatever happened to respecting the office even if you do not care for the individual? Apparently that's a load of BS and when it comes to Obama, anything goes.

Again - before I get jumped on, I need to point out that I do not care for everything the man has said or done - but do I think everything would have been vastly different if McCain had been president? Nope. Same recession. Same wars. Same old song - just sung in a slightly different key.

As for Michele Bachman, I do not think she can get elected - even though IMO she was the star of that GOP debate. She has put her foot in her mouth far too many times and is anti-gay and very vocal about it. Some of her Christian fundamentalist views seem to get in her way about many topics... JMO. She is also strongly anti-abortion - and as you said in part...



> I also am NOT a fan of abortion, but* I believe it should be an issue between a woman and her conscience and NOT a political issue. And the only reason it IS a political issue is because it's a religious issue, and that brings me to another reason to have a lot of problems with the conservative party, and that is the influence the christian faction in the nation has over it. *


Bingo. Exactly right. _*enjoys the mindmeld with __*weebiscuit*__*_


----------



## weebiscuit (Jun 21, 2011)

tagalong said:


> Actually, *weebiscuit* - check out the Politifact links I provided back in that post - and note that Michele Bachmann was, indeed, wrong. I will quote part of it again...
> 
> You can check it out there for yourself.


tagalong, I have been woefully lax in keeping up with my current events since the temperature got higher than 45 degrees, LOL. I am literally outside at the crack of dawn and not in the house until the solar garden lights come on, with maybe a 15 minute break in the house for lunch, and at night I'm getting only a brief shot of news, so I may have been wrong about the drilling, but I know for a fact that I looked it up on the web last night, because I thought your comment about Bachman being wrong was wrong (confusing)! and I know I read somewhere that there was only one deep water drilling permit issued, but of course without the URL available for me to post, I can't back it up, but I will try and see if I can find that site again.



tagalong said:


> Now, you see - THAT ^ is what I like - a good discussion without sneering and namecalling and insults - the way many such discussions here have sadly gone. I like you too, *weebiscuit*. You and *miniwhinny * may be to the right of me politically, but we can respect each others' opinions and also realize that not everything we are "told" is true - no matter who it is about. Obama may have been "packaged" - but I wager that no other president has been insulted/slandered/ridiculed as much as he has. His race, his religion, his background - everything has been held up to scorn and multiple conspiracy theories and accusations. I did not care for a lot of the crap about W either - but the Obama-bashing has gone waaaay beyond that. Times a million. Some of it has made me.... sad, for want of a better word. Whatever happened to respecting the office even if you do not care for the individual? Apparently that's a load of BS and when it comes to Obama, anything goes.


I actually think the total lack of respect for the office of the presidency really started with Bush. I had voted for Bush, so it was always a source of annoyance for me to hear how badly he was bashed. I don't ever recall a time when presidents were so woefully ridiculed, made fun of, lied about, and abased. Remember..... the 911 conspiracy theorists actually felt Bush was behind the WTC bombings. So yes, Obama is taking a terrible bashing, but Bush had his share as well.

I make no bones about my extreme dissatisfaction with Obama and the fact that I didn't vote for him. However, when he won the election, I honestly was not as bummed out as I normally would have been had the person who was not my choice won. I was actually totally "ok" with it, because I thought it was cool that we FINALLY elected a black man to our highest office, and heck, I really was one of those people who got a "feel good" feeling from Obama. But that quickly dissipated! *sorry, tag*



tagalong said:


> As for Michele Bachman, I do not think she can get elected - even though IMO she was the star of that GOP debate. She has put her foot in her mouth far too many times and is anti-gay and very vocal about it. Some of her Christian fundamentalist views seem to get in her way about many topics... JMO. She is also strongly anti-abortion - and as you said in part...
> 
> Bingo. Exactly right. _*enjoys the mindmeld with __*weebiscuit*__*_


I think the republican hopefuls are an abysmal lot, and I personally could not vote for Backman because of her anti-gay views. My problem is that I think I am a "trans-party" person. I am not pro-abortion, but I also don't believe this should even be a political issue. It should be a private one. However, I am against using public funds for abortions (except rape), as I think that's a horrible form of birth control. I am FOR using public funds for birth control. One less kid born out of wedlock that my tax dollars have to support.

My main beef with the republican party is that it's becoming too allied to the christian coalition, and I don't want religious leaders controlling politics.

And yes... it's really possible to absolutely disagree with someone's politics, but to actually have civil discussions with them about it.

*high five to tagalong*


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (Jun 21, 2011)

tagalong said:


> Bingo. Exactly right. _*enjoys the mindmeld with __*weebiscuit*__*_





weebiscuit said:


> And yes... it's really possible to absolutely disagree with someone's politics, but to actually have civil discussions with them about it.
> *high five to tagalong*


Way to go, ladies! My respect factor for several people on this thread has gone WAY up with this reasoned discussion.



I mean, my God...I just agreed with WeeBiscuit about something political!










By the way- I think maybe two people would remember me from my college days and I only got out eight years ago!



Between being a transfer student from a community college, living off-campus and being in a small major...well...I didn't get around much.





Leia


----------



## Marty (Jun 21, 2011)

Thank goodness! I don't see a need for a round of Kumbaya over here!


----------



## Katiean (Jun 22, 2011)

I do not care what is said about Obama's past. The here and now speaks volumes for it's self. What good does it do to say you are ending one war while you are starting yet another? Also countries that were our ali's are getting pretty ticked of with us. Who really cares if he (obama) went to any school. What I care about is what he is doing NOW. And wasn't that yet another vacation that his wife just took their daughters and her mother on and we, get to foot the bill for. Here trip to France she took 900 support people with her. How many did she take this time?


----------



## weebiscuit (Jun 22, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Way to go, ladies! My respect factor for several people on this thread has gone WAY up with this reasoned discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ROFLMBO!!! See??? We all CAN find redeeming qualities in each other, not matter WHAT our political persuasion!



hobbyhorse23 said:


> By the way- I think maybe two people would remember me from my college days and I only got out eight years ago!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Leia, I think maybe ONE person might remember me from my college days, and that's only because she ended up teaching at the same school I did!

When I was in college I was married with two kids, plus held down a 20 hour per week job. I went to class and then got the heck off campus. Never was part of the college life one bit and never even had a cup of coffee in the student union. My college years were NOT fun, not full of parties, not a social event for me at all!


----------



## Pepipony (Jun 22, 2011)

Kinda sad that we as Americans cant just like or dislike someone based on facts. We have to use emails to support our like/dislike. Seems like people no longer can look up facts or check out things on their own, they rely on emails. My mother is a great one for this. Seems that just so long as the email SOUNDS plausible or says something that she likes, then it must be true. Emails can be written and then forwarded by anyone, for any reason. Doesnt mean they are true. Just like 'news' mouthpieces ( not actual reporters, whom are supposed to report fact without imparting their personal spin) can say anything. Doesnt mean it has actual basis in fact.

Think about that email in those terms. So it states that there is nothing that makes him 'human'. Guess those pictures of him in his college days were ever shown? It asks about his girlfriends. Ok, so were are Bushs girlfriends, Palins boyfriends etc? When an email makes a statement about any political figure, ask yourself if the same can be true of the one you like.

So what if Obama or his wife went on vacation. Everyone needs one. If the arguement is the fact that they/he/she went, then you have to ask if it was ok for any President to take a vacation. For arguements sake I mention Bush. He took vacations, he actually had more 'vacation' time than nearly any other President and he was at war as well. So then what about Michelle 'taking over 900 in support staff'. Is that true? If it is, did she request those people or are they sent no matter the First lady? Mrs Bush went to , I think it was Isreal, was she allowed support staff or was it ok for her and not Michelle? If it isnt ok for either that is fine. But sometimes I think we do this 'do as I say and not as I do' , when it comes to deciding what is right or wrong.


----------



## Carriage (Jun 25, 2011)

Its an interesting exercise to read through numerous responses like this as it gives somewhat of a pulse to the thinking of a range of individuals.

I was glad to see that "Snopes" was only used briefly then dropped. Anytime that Snopes is held up as a paragon of fact I become concerned.

It is interesting to see how the two parties have melded in position and thought process. A position on an issue that was firmly rejected 10 or 20 years ago, by one party or the other, is now embraced by both parties. They insist that they are diametrically opposed yet as time progresses they become more alike than they ever care to admit. This speaks to the effectiveness of social engineering. I know, gasps and shock all around...

Those in both parties who claim to research thoroughly, really don't as evidenced by their source material, AND label those who really do as "conspiracy theorist" or any other manner of slur.

OK, I'll do a brief "hit" on both parties just to see where they will twist and squirm to.....

Lets start with the republican/neocon and touch on the original thread,

IF our President was indeed foreign born as so many insist, WHY in the sam hill didn't the tubby trunks investigate this matter in full PRIOR to the election?

Oh but wait there is more,... since the election said tubby trunks have been having conniptions over pretty much EVERYTHING our president has done. YET, still no public/ congressional investigation to solve the matter once and for all. See here's the thing, IF our President is foreign born, his election to President would be unlawful, making everything he has done unlawful AND null and void. Seems like the easiest reset button one could ask for as it would reset the clock to the tubby trunks boy, President Bush. Now, one must ask oneself, "Why wouldn't they want to do this?"

The answer to this last question is not as easy as one might expect and leads to the unraveling of much that is hidden from casual view. I assure you it is not something that "fair and balanced" is gonna touch!

Now the long ears,

Candidate Obama had his finger on the pulse when he spoke of returning jobs to America and bringing our troops home.

VERY shortly (as in a few weeks) after taking office he quickly amended his stand on free trade by stating that America could not become "isolationist". Indeed free trade has expanded and more jobs have left.

Also our troops have not come home and while there is lip flapping about a DRAW DOWN in Afghanistan, our troops will not be coming home and a very large contingent will remain for the foreseeable future. Additionally, other countries have been added to the "hit" parade on this watch.

Now to be fair,

Neither party has done a comprehensive investigation leading to a full public disclosure as to our Presidents citizenship one way or the other.

Neither party seems in favor of bringing our troops home and both have expanded the "hit" parade.

Neither party has lifted a finger to correct the debilitating effects of "free" trade. BOTH have expanded what has been historically, a failed policy that has economically beheaded any country attempting to pursue it.

Now all of these (and a great deal more) are mere symptoms of a root problem without actually touching the root problem which neither side seems want to do. Anyone touching on the root problem either in the secular or spiritual realm is dismissed and labeled with all manner of slur.

We choose either Liberty or slavery with the choices we make. Increasingly, those that choose and insist on Liberty and all of its attendant responsibilities are told that they can't do that. That it can't possibly work and now it looks like both parties are in agreement on this issue and both will change factual history to suit their end. While ignorance can be feigned as an excuse, MANY times, it is willful ignorance as there is ample proof if one looks deeply and is committed to truth, no matter where the truth takes them. Those that have a grasp of the facts due to deep immersion in same and resulting-ly choose Liberty are now attacked by both parties.

Remaining a slave to your party definitely short circuits your ability to arrive at the truth. Over time I've wondered how many folk through-out history have been in a like situation where their country is literally burning around them and their fellow country folk either cannot or will not see through the veil held in front of them in order to see the truth and things as they really are. While its frustrating to see the end game and know where it is headed most likely, this isn't the first time, and it seems to be the nature of the slave. I just wish that my family didn't have to go along for the ride.

I do try to stay off these boards, but look in every once in a while, "Hoping" for "Change".

Bob's Bridges

"Please see us first before your next bridge purchase."


----------



## Jill (Jun 25, 2011)

See if this "Snopes out"





A LOT of us had major concerns about Obama's background before the elections, and I'm not talking about where he was born.

Now look at what he has, and has not done, since elected. Who could be pleased with the results? If anyone has earned a pink slip... And Obama even said so himself.

From February 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HTftH9WIxQ


----------



## Katiean (Jun 25, 2011)

Jill said:


> See if this "Snopes out"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My mother lost her job and a year later she found another. She worked that job for about a year. They cut hers and several other possitions. She is almost through the state extention and can't find a job. They also say that we are up for round two of the housing market. My brother just bought a house on 1/3 ac. The house didn't need repair and he paid $50,000 for it and the land. He has a 7 year morgage so he doesn't careif the prices drop again. He is paying 1/2 the amount for rent and it is paid for in 7 years. My question is just what has Obama done for Nevada?

I totally agree with Jill. Who could be pleased with what Obama has done?


----------



## ohmt (Jun 25, 2011)

Katiean and Jill-i highly suggest you read politifacts to see what Obama has or has not done. They do a great job keeping up with promises he has made and where they're at.


----------



## Jill (Jun 26, 2011)

Ohmt... Omg... You must be getting your news from NOT one of the two dozen or so sources I use. Honest to God, if you think most people in ur Nation are better off now than in January 2009, I don't know where to even base a discussion. Ironically, my own business is BOOMING... while my husband's, as many others, is fizzling. Luckily for our small family, I've always been the primary bread winner (as I tell H and the dogs, I "hunt money".) I'm just lucky enough to help people make the most of their life savings, and when economic times are scary, I gain more clients.


----------



## Jill (Jun 26, 2011)

PS right now, Geitner is calling for higher taxes on Small Business -- when in the past, it's small business that has been able to lead us out of economic woes when taxes and regulation were reduced. I'm a small business owner, a member of several Chambers of Commerce and County Economic Development teams. If my corporate taxes are increased, while I love what I do, I need to make a good living. If pressed, I will reduce employees as will all small business owners I know will do. Top it off that Nancy Peloisi is advocating that the Federal government employee more people to get the economy going... that is not a good answer but it is the central them of the Progressive political agenda that while more popular on the left is also infecting the right. Bigger government always = equals smaller individuals.


----------



## ohmt (Jun 26, 2011)

Now now, I don't appreciate words being put onto my mouth. I said nothing of the sort and I don't really understand the huge long negative response, but oh well. I was merely giving a suggestion. Most people don't realize there is a section on politifacts dedicated solely on following Obama and what he has or has not done. Politifacts is NOT a biased liberal source-nor is it a biased conservative source. I could care less how many sources you get your information from. For every one unbiased source I could find, I could probably find a good 10 that aren't.


----------



## Carriage (Jun 26, 2011)

Guess things are still not bad enough. Looks like it will be yet another nose ring political season, again. If folk can't get past square one, there is no "hope" for "change". Merely changing the stripe of the fat little fox (Lil Timmi G fer example) who guards the hen-house is no change at all.

Here is the secret about our Presidents slogan, The change must be within you. Without that change, there is NO hope.

Enough for me, I hope everyone has a great day and we are enjoying warm sunshine.

Go drive a horse!

Bb


----------



## shelia (Jun 26, 2011)

I hesitate to post here because I don't follow politics as closely as most of you, but it seems to me that political bashing has increased a lot over the years. The powers of the president have seemed to decrease over the years also.

I have also noticed from the news and from conversations with people that many countries seem to have the same problems we do. Too much outsourcing, too much unemployment, too much immigration and not enough money. I often wonder what has happened to the world. Was it because we became so global? Was it because our morals have declined? We used to refuse to accept products from countries that did not treat the citizens the way we thought they should be treated. Now American corporations have set up shop in these countries and are able to treat those citizens any way they want. We abolished slave labor many years ago, but we now seem to think it is okay to buy products from the countries who still use it. I find most of the aid we give to other countries is in the form of weapons, not food. (they leave that to Red Cross and such)

Our problems are much larger than just the president. How much power does a president really have? Nobody in office can seem to agree on anything anymore.

I know I may be a little off topic, but it is just my thoughts.


----------



## tagalong (Jun 26, 2011)

> Anytime that Snopes is held up as a paragon of fact I become concerned.


*Carriage* - Snopes is one of the better balances and fact-checkers out there on a wide variety of topics - and if you don't like what they say based on what they have researched, the links are ALWAYS provided so you can check things out for yourself. I become concerned when people dismiss such sources simply becuase they do not like what that source says - ergo, it must be "wrong" even if their facts are backed up. It is that type of lofty dismissal that concerns me, to be honest. God forbid ANYONE points out the fallacies and fraud that 99% of all viral emails are composed of - no matter what they are about. We can't have that type of nonsense going on, can we!



They must all be true!!!! Only.... not. Is it better to embrace those emails - or seek the facts?

ALL the decent factchecker sites provide links to back up what they say (and not just to supporting blogs/opinion pieces) - even Factcheck.org which does lean left. Even so, they go after Obama and the Democrats. Snopes and Politifact do not lean ANY direction. As was noted above, Politifact skewers or praises everyone and everything - regardess of political affiliation.



> Now look at what he has, and has not done, since elected.


Yep - actually LOOK at it. Politifacts has everything listed meticulously and examined closely. Promises kept. Promises ignored. Things in the works. Lies. Gaffes. Pants on fire lies. Everything. And not just for Obama.

It is all there in black and white for those who can step out from under their party "banner" and care to check out the actual facts - both good and bad -_ for __*everyone*__. _Good old non-partisan FACTS... which seem to be something to be sneered at or to have "concerns" about.

I'll add a link in case some wish to see what has happened to all those Obama promises... http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/browse/



> Most people don't realize there is a section on politifacts dedicated solely on following Obama and what he has or has not done. Politifacts is NOT a biased liberal source-nor is it a biased conservative source. I could care less how many sources you get your information from. For every one unbiased source I could find, I could probably find a good 10 that aren't.


Exactly right. And sources should not include agenda-laden, extremely partisan talking heads, websites, columns, blogs or other opinion pieces - no matter what "side" they are on. Unless you make the attempt to use some of those from both "sides" and then sort through the rhetoric to try and find the odd tidbit of fact hidden within... but those kinds of "sources" depend on you *not *caring about what the actual facts may be... and simply buying into the rhetoric.


----------



## Pepipony (Jun 26, 2011)

The sad fact is not many people can be unbiased. If its 'my party always right' , 'your party always wrong' then its quite hopeless. And rediculous. NO ONE can ever be everything for someone. Seems that people hold 'their' party up on a higher pedistal than their own family. Dont care if people dissagree about actual facts as they happen. But when they change facts, omit facts or do this 'do as I say, not as I do' thing, its just wrong.


----------



## Carriage (Jun 27, 2011)

Well said Miss Sheila,

Political bashing is a large part of the problem. As to whether or not it has actually increased could be fairly debated as it has been done for eons. Part of the Hegelian Dialectic, it is absolutely necessary for the required divide and conquer technique that works SO well.

It is done on many fronts and in many ways. If you can prevent the populace from uniting around a core issue (say, Liberty) and standing firm, you win. All manner of distraction is held up in front of you to keep you busy and play on your emotions all in order to keep you ignoring the "man behind the curtain". That the primary, and "favorite" media media boobs continually use this tactic should be obvious, but it doesn't seem to be. Part of their job is to promote this behavior and if one really listens to their shtick, this infection constantly oozes out of their mouths.

Even when this is addressed directly with them and pointed out, they continue to follow the script rather than find some way to promote unity. Try it some time. Both parties and their shills do this. The last thing "they" want is for the slaves to come off the reservation so they keep you at each other throats. The absolute last thing that they can afford is for the spark of Liberty to firmly take hold again. ANY place that this starts to happen either here or abroad (say Libya), it is quickly and decisively stomped out. Despite this A.M.'s U.N. charge against Gaddaffi, I have been asking folk "What did he do?" Most have not known. Then there are those Snope-ites who think they know, but really haven't a clue. I'll give you a hint, its geopolitical and is based on money. Oh alright, one more hint, but that's IT! Its based on sound money.

As some would disbelieve me, perhaps you should check with "Snopes" first. If they don't confirm, well then I simply must be wrong... While "Snopes" is not as inaccurate as say Quackbusters, it is, non the less inaccurate. Bias and ignorance must be plugged into the equation, otherwise one is left with standing on less than solid ground or using factcheckeer to check factchecker to check...... Oi, no thank you, I'll use better factcheckers when I need to. Its called doing your own research. Please don't Tag, the analysis of your response shows you picking a somewhat inconsequential point to argue, while ignoring prime USDA meat. This too becomes a symptom the problem. If you leave no place for unity, you are left with factions and fractions.

I'm so sorry Katean, for your Mom's job loss. Many folk tried to warn about the end game of free trade and what it would mean, to no avail. It simply was a done deal, even with a full 80% of the American people AGAINST it. While its denied now, it was plain at the time that even some of the unions had a hand in passing it and sold their memberships out for the "ridiculous" hope of new markets. Even today the neocon will tell you with a straight face that free trade is simply marvelous and are VERY busy pushing for more misnomered "agreements". Hmmm... did you agree cause I sure didn't.

Well enough of this for today at least. I am really trying to stay outa the fray this time round as there are enough frustrations to a day as it is.

The shop beckons with one of my joys,

Bb


----------



## tagalong (Jun 27, 2011)

*Carriage* - you seem to seek to stir up a fray almost everytime you post... so when it comes to saying you are "staying out of the fray", methinks thou doth protest too much.







> Oi, no thank you, I'll use better factcheckers when I need to. Its called doing your own research. Please don't Tag, the analysis of your response shows you picking a somewhat inconsequential point to argue, while ignoring prime USDA meat.


IMO, that condescending tone lends nothing to a balanced discussion. That is not the way to go...

I do my own research, thanks - as I have said repeatedly in these threads. I am a skeptic and a cynic and will always look behind any so-called "facts". And I do not get all sanctimonious about one site as opposed to another one that does the exact same thing - nor do I think my opinion is superior to anyone else's. Snopes was brought up in this thread, so that was a point of conversation. They have "investigated" for more years than many of the others have even existed. Just another place to go to debunk nonsense and urban myths like viral emails. I am sorry that it does not meet with your superlative approval.





At least they provide links to back up what they say so you can check things out for yourself - crazy concept, I know...


----------



## Miniv (Jun 27, 2011)

Sorry...but bringing Soros back up.... People poo poo about him, but please don't. I've been watching his activities for several years and he's got his fingers in lots of areas. It's kind of scary. Amazing what lots of money can do. Here's a link to the latest:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/27/critics-say-soros-trying-to-stack-courts/?test=latestnews


----------



## Carriage (Jun 28, 2011)

"People poo poo about him, but please don't. I've been watching his activities for several years and he's got his fingers in lots of areas."

Yes miniv, I think you are right to keep an eye on him. His history clearly dictates that we should.

Peppi, re, "your party". This is precisely right and part of what I've long said

Katean, I will be praying for a better job for your Mom!

Tag, It's always interesting. Thank you for the superlative compliment.

In the end we are going to need to pull together and take care of each other because it appears that this could be quite the ride.

I hope that all have a great day.

Time to go wrassle steel,

Bb


----------

