# What is up with all the mean attitudes lately



## js1arab (Sep 16, 2005)

OK, maybe I'm just getting less tolerant in my old age, but it seems there has been a lot of mean and rude, not to mention unnecessary comments on here lately. On the post where Liltnt felt rejected, many people said to just toughen up. Well, I hate to tell everyone, but there are more of us on here that feel that way than have come out and said it because I've had others pm me that felt that way too and I myself feel that way.

When I see posts about feeding I see rude comments about how or what one feeds a horse. People will say it is never right to feed this or that and anyone doing so is hurting their horse. There are so many different ways to feed an animal and so many different regions that have access only to certain grasses/hays that I think it is very wrong to outright tell someone they are hurting their horses.

It is ok to offer kind, well intended advice, but we should all be careful how we word things. If we continue to alienate people or tell them how dangerous, stupid, cold hearted, irresponsible or whatever they are for there actions, no one will bother to ask anymore.

I know when the comments were made about spelling quite a while back, there were a few who said they couldn't believe people wouldn't take the time to look back and correct their mistakes or better yet use a spell checker. HELLO...I have went back and looked for mistakes 2 and 3 times only to post and find one I still somehow missed and as for the spell checker...I am still figuring the whole computer thing out and each new gadget I learn to use is a huge triumph for me, but I guess I'm not as far along as I thought because I never even knew there was a spell checker you can download or whatever other than in your e-mail etc. So I would be one of those who I guess you would have said was too lazy to use it...when in reality I just didn't know it existed. I just wish we'd all learn a little patience.

I really do enjoy coming here, but it is getting to the point where I almost hesitate to open anything I think could have even the least bit of controversy because people just don't seem to know how to offer CONSTRUCTIVE critisism. That would be offering your point of view without accussing, hurting, name calling etc.

I honestly hope I have always offered good points of view without making anyone feel less about themselves. I think with the exception of the PETA post I have tried to do that. If I am guilty of what I am complaining of then I apologize because I hope I never make anyone feel the way I have felt reading some of the replys lately. Just my thoughts here and sorry if it sounds mean, but imagine what the people who are on the receiving end of the name calling etc feel like. Even if you don't call the actual poster a name, you may be inadvertantly calling another reader something. On a couple of occassions I have done the things people said would be stupid, cold hearted, ignorant. You know what, everything I do with my horses, I try to think of all the bad scenarios and I have a wonderfully clean record at my vets. I know people who have spent more in vet wrap and medicines for their horses than I spend on all my vet bills including all vaccines and coggins in a year. If you ever doubt anything I do then I suggest you check with any friends, family or vet that I have and you'll see that just because it doesn't work for you does not make it wrong!

OK, I am settling down now and don't even bother with the whine comments. I am not posting this so much for me, I know how to turn off my computer and do something besides feel hurt, but for others who may be semi isolated, this forum is like a family and I just don't like to see people being mistreated. There's too much bad in the world already and this forum should be a shoulder to lean on.

Edited for spelling


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## chandab (Sep 16, 2005)

Very well put.


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## Jacquee' (Sep 16, 2005)

I like your post. I think what you say is true, things can be said in such a way so as not to hurt someone's feelings. And I also believe that people have a tremendous influence over one another, I'd like them to use it for a good and positive thing, and not for hurting someone or putting them down.

I also think you have to take what other people say with a _pound_ of salt....... and remember they are saying it from their own perspective. You are so right, those people are not on your farm and do not see what goes on there. If your horses are healthy and happy, that is what you go by..... not by what someone says here.

Just because another person said it, that does not make it right. You have to look at it for yourself, and think for yourself. A lot of times people say things that they _think_ are true, but upon inspection, it turns out not to be true! And what someone gets away with on their farm, in their area, with their personality, may not work on your farm, in your area, with YOUR personality.

I once had a friend who raised alpacas. She was new at it, but did some research etc. and decided that she had the last word on the "right" way to manage alpacas. In fact, she did not think ANYONE could take care of an alpaca as well as she could. When she had females in for breeding to her male, she would then insist on that female staying at her place, because she believed that only she could birth that female safely and that if she sent the female home, the owner would screw everything up and the baby would die or something. This attitude of hers offended many many people, and she lost more and more business until finally, I think she could have had the best alpaca male in the world on her place and NO ONE would have come to her for breedings! She went out of business. I always saw that as a great lesson. Everybody does things a little differently, and if you don't bend, you won't blend.......


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## promise (Sep 16, 2005)

I know exactly what you mean. I erased an entire reply I wrote and did not post it, just because I didn't want people to think or write any nasty comments. It was about a person who was having trouble with her stallion nipping and kicking. She was hoping it would get better after he was gelded.

I have been told by many horsey people to make the horse react to you, DON"T react to the horse.

In plain words, if the horse shows its rump to you, even if it doesn't kick, it's eyes should be watching you, and it should be concerned about not being able to keep you in sight because you may swat/ kick it. Hence, you are the alpha horse. If you think the horse may be thinking about doing something nasty, you do it first! It will always want to be aware of where and what you are doing, not visa versa. They are horses not dogs, and are very strong headed. They will test you!

I did not pass this advise along because many people would think "oh my lord, do they beat their animal",(or send nasty follow ups) no I do not beat my animal, But I don't have to worry that if I turn my back they will have a hunk of my but in their mouth.

Your right, keep it kind.

A little phrase from wise manager I worked for

"ask yourself "WAS IT TRUE, WAS IT KIND, WAS IT NESSASARY"

while the first part doesn't apply, it is a helpful phrase to say to ourselves before we open our mouths.

Promise.


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## New_Image (Sep 16, 2005)

It sure has been going around on here latley thats for sure........ 

Well said.


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## mountain_waif (Sep 16, 2005)

....


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 16, 2005)

js1arab, I understand your initial post and the "emotions" behind it and in some instances there have been some "hot" things said that pushes peoples buttons. You mention some spefic posts and I went back and visited some of these posts that you mention and in one instance the initial post was in my personal opinion very inflammatory and was said in a way to provoke confrontation and then came a barrage of less than stellar replies. Some people on this forum pride themselves with the fact that they are straight forward kind of individuals and in their mind they don't realize that perhaps some on the other end of the spectrum are the total opposites in personality and are more the "sensitive" type. That is something that we just have to accept when you participate in an open forum. I know I am more the "sensitive" type and I was taken to task a few times on this forum and found the "ignore" feature on this forum to be helpful in this case. Perhaps that is a solution for those who feel "attacked".

You also have to remember that at various times of year there is a lull in the numbers of people posting, whether it be during foaling season or during Nationals (AMHR and AMHA) less people are around to post replies so people shouldn't feel "slighted" or that nobody cares to answer and then of course there are those of us who are around but don't have the answer.... We all have to remember not to initiate a post in the "defensive" mode because what you will get is "offensive" type replies. Much better to keep things in a "neutral" tone, that way you get respectful answers. JMHO. (I am not speaking specifically about this post, I mean the posts that are mentioned in your message)

I do applaud you for speaking your mind and letting us know how you feel


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## wpsellwood (Sep 16, 2005)

Well I think, its just me, but alot of people that write these nasty rude remarks say it behind their computer. JMO. What I do before I write something is would I say this to this persons face??? If not I would erase it and try again. Not all cuz some people at times can just down right mean.


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## Sterling (Sep 16, 2005)

> What I do before I write something is would I say this to this persons face?


I agree with this statement and I do the same thing. That being said, I once had a girlfriend that was the most open, blunt, opinionated person I'd ever met, she would tell it like it is. I am surprised that her and I were friends but we were and her and I ...we got along. She was not a nasty person by no means, just open and opinionated and said what she felt. I have not met anyone that I have cared to be friends with that had her same personality......I miss her as she just passed away last year.

I however would not feel comfortable especially not knowing someone well to go off on them. I don't think you're alone in your feelings.


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## Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too (Sep 16, 2005)

Danielle_E. said:


> js1arab, I understand your initial post and the "emotions" behind it and in some instances there have been some "hot" things said that pushes peoples buttons.  You mention some spefic posts and I went back and visited some of these posts that you mention and in one instance the initial post was in my personal opinion very inflammatory and was said in a way to provoke confrontation and then came a barrage of less than stellar replies. 468031[/snapback]
> ​



This is an excellent observation and is often the case around here. Sometimes there is "history" behind some of the unpleasantness so yes I do take it all for and against with a grain of salt. It's pretty frustrating to see some drama queen or king take over the board with inflammatory threads who just like to start people fighting then sit back and enjoy the show. Insensitive or not, the only way some people stop doing that kind of crap is for some members who are not timid to give them a well-deserved verbal smacking if ML sees fit to let the group hash it out.

I've always maintained there is nothing I would say to someone in print I wouldn't say to them if we were person to person but sometimes the sincerity and tone seems to get lost in the written presentation.


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## REO (Sep 16, 2005)

I agree with you js1arab. I used to post my experiences (for what they're worth) a lot. I tried to share and help people in any way I could. I don't any more because I don't need someone knocking me. I'm here to learn, not be torn down by someone hateful. Now, if I wish to share something, I PM the poster instead.

The more different ways are added to a thread, the more things there are to give thought to. I know when I read the differing opinions it gives me food for thought and it helps me decide what might work for ME. IMO, there is no excuse to belittle anyone or try to make them feel stupid or that their way is wrong. BUT some people just are not happy unless they can feel superior by putting someone else down. They must be insecure about themselves, or just plain spiteful. Life is too short to let others make you feel badly.

I also hope I have never accidentally hurt anyone.


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 16, 2005)

Very well said! Mary



REO said:


> I agree with you js1arab. I used to post my experiences (for what they're worth) a lot. I tried to share and help people in any way I could. I don't any more because I don't need someone knocking me. I'm here to learn, not be torn down by someone hateful. Now, if I wish to share something, I PM the poster instead.
> The more different ways are added to a thread, the more things there are to give thought to. I know when I read the differing opinions it gives me food for thought and it helps me decide what might work for ME. IMO, there is no excuse to belittle anyone or try to make them feel stupid or that their way is wrong. BUT some people just are not happy unless they can feel superior by putting someone else down. They must be insecure about themselves, or just plain spiteful. Life is too short to let others make you feel badly.
> 
> I also hope I have never accidentally hurt anyone.
> ...


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## Miniv (Sep 16, 2005)

A quote from "Promise"----

A little phrase from wise manager I worked for

"ask yourself "WAS IT TRUE, WAS IT KIND, WAS IT NESSASARY"

while the first part doesn't apply, it is a helpful phrase to say to ourselves before we open our mouths.

I think that the wise manager was indeed truly wise.....

MA


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## Cathy_H (Sep 16, 2005)

That is the nature of a forum.. People show in their writings what they are in real life ...... I have been on here for many many moons. I see this question / opinion on the forum about 2-3 times a year................... No one should let anyones negative - opposing - different opinion dictate how they feel about themselves.


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## horsehug (Sep 16, 2005)

I agree Maryann and Promise!

I also agree with most of the posts on this thread. I think it is sad that many no longer feel comfortable posting, for fear of unkind responses.

Susan O.


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## runamuk (Sep 16, 2005)

I keep thinking I will just quit posting...but I have some long time friends on here and this is my "water cooler"......

I am in the minority as I treat my mini's like horses....I have been known to smack my horse if it is deserved...heck I spank my youngest kid as well (didn't with the first one and learned from that mistake



) I believe in doing rescue....I don't really show but have prepared and helped out with a number of very high end show horses........I don't really breed 1 foal in 15 years or more of horses doesn't constitute being a breeder IMO..........I believe in teaching people about miniatures and horses in general not preaching about it.........I have horses because it is what I do and who I am........that goes for all my other critters.......my children have learned more from the animals in their lives than they could ever learn in school........the animals is the main reason I am here to talk to others who understand this quality of animals.......

For the most part I ignore many people who get on my nerves ..........I am only in control of my reaction to what they do or say.....I cannot control or change other people.


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 16, 2005)

For the most part I ignore many people who get on my nerves ..........I am only in control of my reaction to what they do or say.....I cannot control or change other people. [IMG said:


> https://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/data/emoticons/default_wink.png[/IMG]
> 
> So true, about not controlling others, only ourselves. I can see where someones "passion" about a topic may cause them to loose control of themselves but becoming rude looses their ability to get their point across to the entire forum.
> 
> I have found there are just times I have to walk away from the computer, shaking my head in wonderment of the irony in some things which are said! I do know that no one has to join in on anything they think is something about starting fights,on the other hand I think good sensible discussions are so good for all. JMHO Mary


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## justaboutgeese (Sep 16, 2005)

There are very few days that go by where I do not bite my tongue. I am a bit old school when it comes to horses. I would never abuse a horse in anyway but I would never allow one to injure me or anybody around me either. Time, patience and common sense have worked well for many years for me when it comes to dealing with horses. I might whisper so I do not make them "nervous" at the start but when you are dealing with a two or three year old draft animal that has been running in a pasture for all its life they do not hear you whisper as they run past. I do not want to hurt anybodies feelings so their training methods and the treatment of their horses are their business. But if you ask for advice you might get it. I can remember catching flames once for a suggestion that many people felt was radical even though its used commonly in all parts of the country. Humane and safe but when I mentioned it I went down in flames. Most of the ones on the firing line that day just gave them time outs I guess. I have thick skin so if I post in a contorversial topic I either toughen up my thick skin or don the flame retardent suit. Even people I like (and who like me I think) will disagree on some things and some methods. Not very long ago I had a neighbors friend call me because her vet couldn`t get there right away and the horse was bleeding badly. She literally had a poor spell when I twitched her wild horse to look at the wound. I threw the horse and had my hired boy lay accross its neck . The cut was bad but not life threatening. Cleaned it up and (this is what she fainted over ) glued it back together. She just came apart at the way I had treated her animal. I said you are welcome and to call sombody else next time. Her husband came over later that evening and said the vet agreed with everything I had done and the animal required no further treatment from him. Brought me a bottle of Crown Royal but to this day she has never spoke to me.


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## runamuk (Sep 16, 2005)

> Cleaned it up and (this is what she fainted over ) glued it back together.


This is common knowledge that super glue was actually first a surgical glue......and it works great......I am no seamstress and sure wouldn't want to even try stitching up a wound...but I am familiar with glue and bandaging/taping


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## Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too (Sep 16, 2005)

runamuk said:


> > Cleaned it up and (this is what she fainted over ) glued it back together.
> 
> 
> This is common knowledge that super glue was actually first a surgical glue......and it works great......I am no seamstress and sure wouldn't want to even try stitching up a wound...but I am familiar with glue and bandaging/taping
> ...


Just have to add that OTC super glue is not the same surgical glue that's used for tissue repair. It has the same components but not the same formulation, is not sterile and can severly damage tissue. Wouldn't use it myself on human or animal. Sorry


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## runamuk (Sep 16, 2005)

> Just have to add that OTC super glue is not the same surgical glue that's used for tissue repair. It has the same components but not the same formulation, is not sterile and can severly damage tissue. Wouldn't use it myself on human or animal.


I know it is different yet I have had 2 vets tell me it will work in a pinch and a heck of alot more sterile than a needle and thread


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## capall beag (Sep 16, 2005)

Definately agree!!!!





Some people are too blunt and don't soften their reply and that is rude IMO, of course!!!!!!

I think I will read less often because I don't need another stress in my life and I get a bit stressed out by some of the comments!!!!!!

Very true what someone said "Some hide behind their computers!", they would not be so brave in public!

Too bad really because this ia such a lively little forum!!





It is really quite addictive


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## C & C Farms (Sep 16, 2005)

I agree....I get tired of the "nit picking" too!!





(gee, I hope I spelled that right!) LOL


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## MyLilShowGirl (Sep 16, 2005)

Well said.... People really dont have to be so rude around here...everyone has there own ways and YOUR way isnt always right! Yours could be right, but so could anothers! Just keep that in mind before you start being such a ~#$*^!. Settle down...and say it in a NICE way!

-Kris


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## capall beag (Sep 16, 2005)

Justaboutgeese, I think you are the lucky one that that old ..... has not spoken to you since!

If someone helped me out with one of my horses like that I would feel indebted to them!

Takes all sorts!!!!!!


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## js1arab (Sep 16, 2005)

I do realize that some people try to cause problems, but if a newbie comes on the forum, they won't realize that you are responding to someone whose been a pain in the butt and they will find us just plain rude. I don't expect to change people who purposely try to be rude to others, nor will it change people who try to put burrs under peoples saddles. I am just hoping that if I stick my neck out and say how I personally felt about the comments, maybe those who didn't realize they were sounding so rude would try just a little harder to be nice. And for the people who try to make others angry by posting a baited question, you draw more flys with honey than with vinegar. Try being kind to the forum and they will return the favor.

And Geese, I hear ya about the whole treating a horse like a horse. and demanding respect from my kids (yes I said demanding



) I almost never post on those questions because they don't make a suit flame proof enough for me. And ya know what -both my horses and kids keep hangin around (of course it could be that they don't want to miss a meal



)


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## Marty (Sep 16, 2005)

I for one am always wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. There is always many ways to accomplish things, but no matter what, all my ways always seem to be wrong.

I post from my own experiences, my friends' experiences, and then I do research here and there and try to provide a helpful link if I can.

But I'm still usually wrong all the time anyhow.

There is no one else on this board that is wrong 100% of the time like I am. And trust me, people let me know it.

Heaven knows I call them like I see them. And I do try to "see the problem" and then offer "constructive critizism" but that's wrong too.

They say the mind is the first thing to go, so I guess mine already went.

I'll probably just dig a hole and stay in it.

Would that be wrong?


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## nootka (Sep 17, 2005)

I can honestly say that I have not often had people "come down on me" for whatever I have posted, or contact me privately in a nasty manner.

I hope there aren't many who've taken offense to things I've posted and the "way" I've posted them. I haven't meant any, even if there have been times I have been a bit irritated or perhaps tired of repeating myself, and usually, my best advice for most things is to find someone they trust and with good reason to, ask them for help in a personal and "real life" way so that they can better assess the problem and what could help, as in a vet, or a trainer, etc.

When people get snippy, I do think it is because they feel they are offering good advice and it feels like an insult to have the person then say "no, that's not what I wanted to hear" or whatever reason they are going off, they feel they got slighted.

Not that it is right, but other people DO get offended way too easily.

Thinking that you are a "thread killer" is a bad one. I have often wondered why noone would post on a popular thread after I had, or that my post must have "killed" the thread, sort of like those uncomfortable lapses in conversation that leave everyone looking around for something to say!

Maybe that's the problem is that we try to relate the written or typed word into a realtime equivalent and we add our own emotions, which could be any at the time, and maybe not meant that way, but they come across so.

I HAVE seen some very rude responses and I try to ignore them, as most times it is best to let a thread go away once someone has crossed that threshold.

Please dont' let anyone chase anyone away, it is ONLY a message board, and if someone wants to be that rude, they aren't worth worrying over what they think of you. We've all posted our share of "dumb" things and made mistakes/asses of ourselves, but we suck it up and go on and learn, and soon the "newbies" are offering very sound advice along with the oldtimers.

If someone doesn't like what was said, they can just skim past it and add their own .02.

Liz M.


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 17, 2005)

OK...I'm the one that started the whole "Spell check" debate !! AND I did it genuinely and, I thought and for me(



) diplomatically. I just could not read what this junior member was writing, and that was the end of it. She obviously had plenty to say, ands seems to have no problem doing it, spelt almost correctly, now, so what is the problem?? I can read Lisa's post- I also can read all Ashley's posts- sorry to pick you two out but you are obviously people whose posts I automatically read and thus see them the most- but I just could NOT understand this persons posts- I was going cross eyed. Now- please bear in mind that I have worked with severely dyslexic children, and managed to decipher _most_ of their Homework- needed help with some- Why is it a crime to just drop a line in asking them to type slower or use spellcheck- people even came on telling us where you could download it free if you did not have it- 'geese-, I read all your posts and you _know_ I will disagree with yo if I do not agree- I do not think we have ever actually argued, disagreement on a civil level is how you gain knowledge. I can understand that woman having a fit at you throwing her darling to the floor- could you not have sent her back to the house or asked her firmly if she wanted her horse to die?? (I am assuming this was life and death??) After that, if she did not agree, I am afraid I would have walked away- well, now I would, I do not know when this happened, possible a few years ago I might have gone ahead any way. Over here what you did, and what I have done on occasion, when necessary, is illegal. Only a Vet may give Veterinary care, even in an emergency- so, her, that woman could ( and would) have sued me for a large amount of money, and she would have won!! Even though the treatment was correct. I too treat my horses as horse. They live at grass all year and only the show horses are ever stalled. The horses that were shown this year are all out at grass now. I have no real desire to "play" with my horses and it sometimes drives me nuts when people do, so maybe I do give "snippy" answers. But when people come on and ask for advice, I cannot for the life of me see why they object when they get it!!


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## Sunseri Farms (Sep 17, 2005)

Thank You for that. Yea!!!!!! While I am fairly new here. Several commnets to me were very rude. Like I am intruding.

I came here for help and friendly chatter. I have not been in the click so to speak. Few have been nice. I am one that does not type or spell check for it is not on my computor when I respond here. If I am typing at night it is hard to see. Lights off so not to desturb disturb family Ha Ha

I don't know how to add all the funny little smilies are have the need. Strickly business. Their way or mine is not always right.

I to have just about decide not to visit here.

Thank You for saying that!!!

Joyce



js1arab said:


> OK, maybe I'm just getting less tolerant in my old age, but it seems there has been a lot of mean and rude, not to mention unnecessary comments on here lately. On the post where Liltnt felt rejected, many people said to just toughen up. Well, I hate to tell everyone, but there are more of us on here that feel that way than have come out and said it because I've had others pm me that felt that way too and I myself feel that way. When I see posts about feeding I see rude comments about how or what one feeds a horse. People will say it is never right to feed this or that and anyone doing so is hurting their horse. There are so many different ways to feed an animal and so many different regions that have access only to certain grasses/hays that I think it is very wrong to outright tell someone they are hurting their horses.
> 
> It is ok to offer kind, well intended advice, but we should all be careful how we word things. If we continue to alienate people or tell them how dangerous, stupid, cold hearted, irresponsible or whatever they are for there actions, no one will bother to ask anymore.
> 
> ...


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 17, 2005)

I too get bummed out on some of the posts. Or lack of responces when I post something I feel is important questions/concerns to me. Yes, I am probably perceived as ignorant, and I am in a lot of areas re: minis or I wouldn't ask a question. I have been very appreciative to any/all responces I get. Where I live there is a woman near that raises minis but anything I asked was like I was trying to steal top confidential information. Even just questions about feed. I wish there was a feed link on here that had the basics for all newbies such as myself to go visualize when needed and maybe a basic care guide. It does feel awkward to have to ask some of these questions that are like second nature to people who have done this for a long time.And it does get confusing.

Thank you for posting this because I do not see how flaming someone can be productive for anyone.

Fran


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## justaboutgeese (Sep 17, 2005)

'geese-, I read all your posts and you know I will disagree with yo if I do not agree- I do not think we have ever actually argued, disagreement on a civil level is how you gain knowledge.

--------------------

I would not have it any other way. Rabbitfitz is a forum member who can speak with the authority of a lifetime of experience. There are many ways to solve every problem and listening to different people provides different approaches to the same problem. Forum members can either choose to glean information from multiple sources or follow the suggestions of members who think on the same lines they do. Her statement about disagreement on a civil level comes in a timely point in this thread. She has paid her lifes dues and has the right to speak (and disagree) with anybody on this forum as do all of us.


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## New_Image (Sep 17, 2005)

Sunseri Farms & OhHorsePee 

It does seem like there is a click you have to get into on here doesnt it?

Several of them actually.

Reminds me some what of high school.

I have noticed that since the day I started reading here that it seems like if you are new you need a certin number of posts to be recognized or "in" unless you say the wrong thing then 90% of the forum is right there in your face.

Sometimes that is a good thing though, because some people come with completly the wrong idea and do need to be told what to do and not to do with there mini.

I do think we all need to go out of our way to respond to new forum members topics - I try, since I remember comming here with 90 billion questions and I was very thankful for any and every responce I got even if it was just "Dont know but HI"



(For the records I still come with tons of questions and still am thankfull for all responces)

There is a link at the bottem of the page here... wait where is it... well there was a link at the bottem of the page here. Hmmm.

Well here is the link to the mini info pages many questions can be answered there, if you havent been there before.


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## shminifancier (Sep 17, 2005)

As far as a spell checker goes..This one is very easy to use and gives many many choices unlike some of them.. I like it very much as you can use it will ALL message boards~! It is a great one and Free~! And does not cause any funky spyware added to a machine either..

http://www.iespell.com/


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## chandab (Sep 17, 2005)

Marty said:


> I'll probably just dig a hole and stay in it.
> 
> Would that be wrong?
> 
> ...



Yes... It would be mighty difficult for you to write those great stories and poems from a dark little hole.



Besides, we'd miss you. I know I would. Marty, if we didn't live so darn far apart, you are one of the people from this forum that I would definitely like to meet in person.


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 17, 2005)

> It is ok to offer kind, well intended advice, but we should all be careful how we word things. If we continue to alienate people or tell them how dangerous, stupid, cold hearted, irresponsible or whatever they are for there actions, no one will bother to ask anymore.


I think this is the main concern of the person who started this topic. I doubt, if it is

disagreements because there will always be disagreements but it is adding the rudness, the cut-ups and cut-downs, flaming and flashing butts etc that are what hurts this forum.



It isn't about how many different ways there are to feed a horse , it is about how it is stated. Something that I find offensive , is when a newbie asks for advice, is for someone to imply that it has been discussed too many times already, as if the new person knows this. There are people who have been on the forum for a long time and repeat themselves over and over about some show win or something in their lives, etc. which seems to be well tolerated but if a newbie [heaven forbid] starts a topic about something they don't like they will rudely state how soooooo tired they are of hearing about this topic. If it is old stuff, why contribute to it, but if it is new to someone else than let it be and it will pass much faster!!



No person needs to add to a topic that is old stuff to them and adding just for the sake of being rude and obnoxious is what is now being talked about with this topic. Opinions are great but they can be stated without being rude.

Rabit fizz, you may have the ability to read and understand some things that people write that are not well written because you have worked with that type thing. Unfortunately many of us have not and we do have a difficult time figuring out what some people say...nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with these people who were never taught to spell by our education system. What I have done is asked the person to clarify what they said so I could understand but WOW that didn't work without being torn apart! One other thing, I do hate to see a young person tore apart for how they word something or how they spell when an adult does the same thing and no complaint about it. I hope people understand that not everyone is gifted with expressing what they say in writing [myself included] but it is no excuse for someone else to treat them with rudeness.



JMHO Mary
[/QUOTE]


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 17, 2005)

Nicole, your insight is so great for a young person.



You do a wonderful job with your life and bring sunshine to the forum when there are clouds to be chased away.....I would love to have a grandaughter like you



Mary



New_Image said:


> Sunseri Farms & OhHorsePee
> It does seem like there is a click you have to get into on here doesnt it?
> 
> Several of them actually.
> ...


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## horsehug (Sep 17, 2005)

Mary (Buckskin Gal),

I totally agree 

Susan O.


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## kaykay (Sep 17, 2005)

First of all to Fran--we have never met but I cant wait to meet you when i move to ohio and you can ask me all the questions you want! you have been so helpful to me trying to find a place there!! I feel like we are already great friends. THIS IS WHAT MAKES THIS FORUM SO GREAT!!

I too have noticed some really rude remarks lately that just shocked me and i have been around for awhile. I take note of who typed it (absolutely do not want to buy or sell a horse from someone like that



and then i just move on

there are several posters here that I will not even read their posts because they upset me so badly. I have found this is the best way to avoid forum stress

If you are around and really watch what people post you can get a pretty good feel for who they really are.

I have openly disagreed with rabbit, geese, marty etc but its never personal and i like all of them. You dont have to agree all the time as long as you are respectful. I really think that is the key. Be respectful even when you dont agree.

I think im going to make a special feeding page on my site since this is one of the most asked questions. But then again it will only be my opinion on how to feed based on my experience





Kay


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 18, 2005)

Aw, Kay, you are so sweet! I can't wait for you guys to get over here! You will love it. I already told Ron that I was going to take you out to lunch.



You put the kind in kindness!

Thank you, Nicole! You ARE wise in your youth.

Fran


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## Ashley (Sep 18, 2005)

I think alot of times its because typeing something you dont really know how somebody means it. I know alot of people are turned off by my posts. However when you meet and actually talk to me, I dont really come off that way. Im just very very bad at typeing things out how I mean them.

SO that also must be taken in to consideration. The way one types something to mean, and how the other takes it could be totally different.


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## Jess P (Sep 18, 2005)

I have felt the same way.

Whenever I would post pictures. I only get at the most four responses. Another time, when I ask advice, and I post an update, Im afraid to because maybe you guys will not approve of it. I am a youth, I am still learning.

Is it because a dwarf was born here? Or is it because I haven't been to any AMHR or AMHA shows this year (Next time I am). Give people a chance.

Jessica


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## tagalong (Sep 18, 2005)

MiniSeasons said:


> I have felt the same way.
> Whenever I would post pictures. I only get at the most four responses. Another time, when I ask advice, and I post an update, Im afraid to because maybe you guys will not approve of it. I am a youth, I am still learning.
> 
> Is it because a dwarf was born here? Or is it because I haven't been to any AMHR or AMHA shows this year (Next time I am). Give people a chance.
> ...


*Jessica*... no one is purposefully snubbing you. Any forum moves at different speeds... and is busy at different times.

As far as a dwarf being born there - if you have paid attention to many other posts - you will note that the Special Ones are not treated as pariahs here... and we cherish them - and help them deal with a life they may not be well suited for.

Post updates... chat away... and simply enjoy yourself without looking for conspiracies or "reasons" behind things. They simply are not there... ((HUG))

*****

BUT - there is indeed an interesting "clique" here... as I discovered in a recent thread. A sort of a _We Know Everything And What We Say Is Correct and We Are The Experts On Everything Etc. Just Ask Us_ few... a thread got ugly - and the "few" high-fived each other and chortled and slammed and bashed others... and they were adults. _*sigh*_

That's okay...you have to roll with the punches. But when I see knowledgeable people on this forum getting plowed over by others... and newbies following along... well - it makes me a bit sad.

But then - it takes all sorts of different types to make a message board interesting - just like Real Life!


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## outdoorchic (Sep 18, 2005)

This is my first post. I have been reading this Forum for a little over two years now. I have no agenda or am I about of any click. I will just say how I see it.

JS1Arab, I think you have some valid points. I see certain individuals coming on the Forum and implying there way is the only way. The feed example that you gave is a good one. Once somebody posts something like that, I understand where other people just do not want to post. As you said there is no right way.

Now in my personal opinion, from reading all this time I find only about a half a dozen posters offensive. I understand that the Forum monitors can not ban everyone for an ocassional rude comment but I do feel that this board would be better off without of few of them.

I also find that some on here who complain the loudest are also the biggest offenders.

I see people playing the numbers game. How many posts can I rack up. Numbers are just not important. It's what you have to say. Personally, if the big thing in your life and what makes you important, is how many posts you can rack up on a Forum, it's pretty sad. No I am not talking about the people who have many posts because they have been posting for five years.

I also see where people are taking some of the things that happen on here way to personally. I do not think people are snubbed intentionally nor do I think that people who show are better liked than those who don't.

I have no idea how this whole "whole people that show are the only ones that matter" thing got started. Personally I think its people just feeling inferior. That is there own problem to deal with.

TriggyNBlueandDaiseytoo made a great comment......

<<Sometimes there is "history" behind some of the unpleasantness so yes I do take it all for and against with a grain of salt.>>

I do see the history on this Forum and some people don't understand that it is the way of all Forums. You cannot take it personally. Some of you need to go visit other Forums. This place is mild.

Fran, I do not see where people find any questions ignorant and when a thread does not get answered I do not again think anyone is snubbing you. You have to realize that some topics just get posted so much it sometimes gets tiresome. Just do a search and go from there. Sometimes people just do not have an answer at that time.

As for fighting? Yes, I have seen topics posted by certain individuals just to start a fight. They post and then they are no where to been seen.

Yes, there are also topics, one recently, that there was a big to do for about three days and then another poster, who I know saw the other thread started the same thing all over again. Sorry! That is just trouble in the making.

Mary, I think you were the one that made a comment about people being tired of the same stuff. Sorry but when the same stuff just happened 2 days prior the people commenting were just over it and had every right to say so. I understand your point if the topic had just not been brought up, but that was not the case.

I also saw the flashing butt comment you made. You need to go back and pull up that thread again. All that was was a few people trying to lighten up the thread by the fact that their butts were fat. It was funny! You really took the entire thing in the wrong way and now that it's past maybe rereading will verify this as most everyone on that particular thread was saying that things are a matter of choice. (just like you)

Again, sorry, but to many



taking things way to personally.

Tagalong I also think you made some valid points.

<<you have to roll with the punches. But when I see knowledgeable people on this forum getting plowed over by others... and newbies following along... well - it makes me a bit sad.>>

It makes me sad reading some of this too. I see where so many very knowledgeable people won't even post anymore or post only when they are very passionate about something. It's sad because they have so much great input.

And I will end this with the fact that one of the biggest problems it that too many on here really do not read someones post throughly and really try to take time to decipher the meaning before that hit that post button and reply to something that wasn't even there!

This Forum is filled with such a wide variety of people. Certainly there are going to be some clashes and yes, there are going to be clicks but that is totally normal. The clicks I do see many times disagree with eachother. No big deal! Overall this is a pretty good place.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Sep 18, 2005)

outdoorchic

I dont even know you but boy i wish you would post more often that was very well said and thought out and appreciated!


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## outdoorchic (Sep 18, 2005)

Lisa, thank you, I just sat back long enough and felt that this topic really needed an outsiders opinion.

I have to say that I admire you also. You have been on the Forum a very long time. You state your opinion and you don't care if people like it or not. You do not seem to be here to win a popularity contest yet people seem to like you and you don't get your panties in a wad if someone disagrees.

And, btw, you are one that joked about that fat butt. LOL..........Sometimes people need to see the humourous side of things!

Rai (who will post a bit more!)


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## Minimor (Sep 18, 2005)

I agree, you said that very well outdoorchic!

I've learned in real life that sometimes, no matter how nicely some people express themselves, someone gets offended by what is said. This forum is exactly the same. It's common enough for someone to post their opinion/observation, and they do so nicely. But, because their view doesn't agree with someone else's, someone else takes offense & calls the poster rude.

Other times someone is just being blunt, calling a spade a spade, speaking in general terms...only someone else takes it as a personal jab & gets offended. I've seen that twice just in the past couple, 3 days--once just earlier today on another thread.

The one that disillusioned me the most, though, was a couple weeks ago, maybe a bit more. It was (I thought) a pretty good discussion going on, until one person slammed another for misspelling a word....one letter was "wrong". We're not talking "u" in place of "you" or anything hard to read like that (spelling mistakes don't much bother me, but this abbreviated text messaging type lingo isn't just about spelling & can get a bit out there for some of us old folks!) Anyway, this was one letter in the middle of a word, and this person jumped on it. Came across to me that the poster felt like she was on the losing end of a slanging match (though really it was supposed to be just a discussion) and so when all else failed, she had to throw a big rock about this one letter. I'd really thought better of the poster, so that really disappointed me. At the time I was very disgusted and just about quit coming here at all. Then I thought no, there are many people here that I do enjoy--why should I leave because of a few that I really don't like?

It doesn't pay to be too sensitive....such is life!


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## js1arab (Sep 18, 2005)

Well, I am glad I did post this topic. I debated for quite a while (actually a few months) before doing so. It has been really interesting to see everyone's thoughts and views. I see both sides to this post. There are a few who get way too sensitive, but there are still those who feel the need to get the one- upmanship even if it means being hurtful. I just wanted to state my observations as I was sure others were feeling a bit the same. There have been so many good posts here that I would love to have pm'd several of you individuals. Unfortunately, I am busy having a fight with my website(it isn't wanting to publish my new pics!) and running my kids to sporting events so I have not done so, but please note that there were some excellent points of view here and incredibly, all were stated nonconfrontationally (is that really a word






) Thanks again to all who took the time to post and outdoorchic -please quit hiding and come visit more often, you sound like a good voice of reason





Oh by the way Marty - Sorry to tell you, but if you dig a hole, you'd be wrong






If you did that, who would snuggle that new little love bug of yours and who would keep those boys of yours from picking up things they shouldn't


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Sep 18, 2005)

outdoorchic said:


> .  You have been on the Forum a very long time.  You state your opinion and you don't care if people like it or not.  You do not seem to be here to win a popularity contest yet people seem to like you and you don't get your panties in a wad if someone disagrees.
> And, btw, you are one that joked about that fat butt.  LOL..........Sometimes people need to see the humourous side of things!
> 
> Rai  (who will post a bit more!)
> ...


well thanks.. i have been here a long time and learned so much along the way and sometimes this place truly has saved a life of a horse or foal with what I have learned i try to focus on that. Sometimes i am wrong, sometimes i get heated when i need to walk away. sometimes i am just a flat out sea hag for no reason (other then hormonal) and sometimes others are the same way but at the end of the day... this place is great and we are a family that pulls togther just that sometimes we all take turns being the black sheep


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 18, 2005)

Well I don't know who you are since I don't see a name but whoever you are certainly didn't need to get personal. You have every right to your opinion but not everyone has the same perspective. Perhaps a time will come when you will have someone flash their butts at you and throw flames and then we will see how you like it. I personally did not see where it lightened up the topic one bit, [where does flaming ever do that?] in fact there were some that only got more upset with the childness of it all. Many people found it very rude because I heard from them in pm. I suppose the "crawling out from under the rock was very funny to you also...well not all seen it that way. You don't have to take anything personally but there are people who are not like you and do take things personally. There is no need for the rudness and cut ups and I won't change my mind one bit about that fact. Perhaps it has been easy for you to sit back and just take count of who you think does right and who you think doesn't, and then pop up to give your opinion about them. Why aren't you adding something worthwhile instead of telling others what they have done wrong? If we all sat back and didn't contribute anything except critcism to those you think are doing wrong. what kind of forum would this be? Do you have anything to contribute,other than finding fault with what others do, which you think is wrong, and if so why haven't we seen it? Must be easy to sit and critize and not let others know you might have some faults of your own. Just be decent enough to acknowledge that not everyone sees things the same as you. Maybe you think people just make contributions to a thread to make themselves look important [another put down to them from you] Well do you know why you made the post other than to make yourself look important?

My posting the article from the saleboard was taken by many to be old stuff...but I have gone back time and again and never have I seen where any one brought up the article. Had I known any one person would take that post and turn it into hurting people with their words I would never done it. But when it came down to certain ones flaming and flashing butts at the poster, I thought it was just too much for decent people. And you know what, if you don't like what I post, there is no law that says you have to read it. It certainly isn't posted for you to sit behind your computer and judge me, nor citicize me....I didn't ask for an evaluation from you and I think it was unnecessary for you to give a rundown name by name of those you found fault with. If you have any more to say about me or to me, please pm me so the nice people don't have to be subjected to this. Mary



outdoorchic said:


> This is my first post.  I have been reading this Forum for a little over two years now.  I have no agenda or am I about of any click.  I will just say how I see it.
> JS1Arab, I think you have some valid points.  I see certain individuals coming on the Forum and implying there way is the only way.  The feed example that you gave is a good one.  Once somebody posts something like that, I understand where other people just do not want to post.  As you said there is no right way.
> 
> Now in my personal opinion, from reading all this time I find only about a half a dozen posters offensive.  I understand that the Forum monitors can not ban everyone for an ocassional rude comment but I do feel that this board would be better off without of few of them.
> ...


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## outdoorchic (Sep 18, 2005)

First of all, thanks Geese! I feel the same way about your posts.

Oh Mary! Relax GAL! You have blown this way out of proportion. Nobody attacked you but you sure know how to attack. I was merely stating my point of view. Too bad if you don't like it but that is all part of a public Forum ! Did you bother going back and reading that thread? Did "fat butts" have anything to do with you? I think not.





You took so much offense to that I found it comical. So many things to get upset about and that certainly wasn't one of them. (mountain out of molehill)

Again, go back and read. Flaming and flashing butt posters (or whatever) again had nothing to do with you or your article. You really need to get a grip. And as far as a moonie smilie being decent? Oh brother! Your funny! Last time I checked it was 2005 and this isn't a church grouop. If you are going to post on a public Forum, people are going to disagree with you and you are going to see DISGUSTING things like moonie smilies too. As far as I see it you are the only one getting your nose out of joint.

Actually I should be! But what the heck! Life if to short to go nuts over a post or a moonie!





And it is my perrogative to "pop in" and post whateve I like! Are you suggesting that just because you have more posts than me that you are better? That is one of the things people are sensitive about here, yet you assume that just because it's my first post I cannot speak my mind.

And my name is right there. Just forgot it in my first post. Sorry. Off with my head!

Rai


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## New_Image (Sep 18, 2005)

Jessica dont feel that way





If you want to post pictures do it because you enjoy shareing not becuase of the number of replies you do or dont get! I always look at the number of views when any one posts pictures, just because you only get a reply or two doesnt mean people arent enjoying what you have shared there is only so many times some one can say "Beautiful pictures" so it becomes a every other time you post thing (Or so Ive noticed) Although there is nothing better then reading compliments on your horse and getting replies to your topic dont get me wrong. My favorite thing on this forum is shareing my pictures as well as seeing other pictures and updates! I post TONS of pictures and updates and there are always a lot of views so I am sure many forum members enjoy it even if they dont _always_ reply - Do you get what I mean? I for one would love to see some one else post as many pictures and updates as I do, So start updateing and stop worrying!





(((Huggs)))

BTW If some one has a problem with the fact you had a dwarf born (And you didnt try for it) they need a life


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## runamuk (Sep 18, 2005)

> Again, go back and read. Flaming and flashing butt posters (or whatever) again had nothing to do with you or your article. You really need to get a grip. And as far as a moonie smilie being decent?


Well isn't that just dandy....I missed it again






back in the day before we had all the login requirements I missed about a week of reading and that was the week of porn posting



missed that too








ok so where is butt flashing...moonie smilie








and like Lisa I agree there is more good than bad here and the forum seems to have cycles..hmmm wonder if the forum will hit the age of menopause






...... and this is my water cooler ...since I work with a bunch of people that I have little in common with we don't often have much to chat about


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## Vertical Limit (Sep 18, 2005)

Welcome Outdoorchic! And you are right. This is not a numbers game. Your post was honestly refreshing and new viewpoint is always welcomed........like any new poster is welcomed!

Now, that was MY little moonies that this fuss is over. Good Grief....like I haven't got better things to do! Here it is.........and Mary just because your name was part of a quote (and I did check), it does not mean that anyone was flaming you. I guarantee that this had nothing to do with you personally. Believe me........if it was personal I have no qualms about saying so. It was a joke between the three people below.

If you didn't like the humor oh well. Again, part of a public Forum.

I also monitor this Forum. I assure you that there is NO rule against using that smiley and if you think it's in bad taste you can report ME to ME at [email protected] I will give myself 30 lashes.




Funny, I don't get all those PM's about the poor Moonie!

I really can't believe how ridiculous this is








#1. Lacey posts that it would burn her butt for anyone to tell her what to do with her horses.

#2 I post it would burn my butt too and it was a big butt to burn. I added some moonie smilies.....................





#2 Lisa posts to add her somewhat untiny butt to the list.

That was it. Now you need to get over it because it is much to do about nothing.

As for the rest of the thread, i am glad to see the nice civil way that this has been discussed. Good job! I hope everyone has learned a little something and that maybe we can be a little kinder to each other.

Carol


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 18, 2005)

Carol, Thank you for clearing that up.



When a persons name is used and flaming and butt flashing is used in the same post, what is a person to think? It is just my opinion that it was rude but here again there are always differences of opinions when on a forum and no one has to agree that an opinion is right or wrong. I do wish it had been kept between the three of you instead of having my name on the post...would have saved my feelings...but then what the heck, feelings don't have to be considered on forums...according to certain posters. Guess I will just have to toughen up and take it or leave. I really didn't see any humor to it but then I suppose that makes me wrong. Oh well. Isn't the first time and won't be the last.



I just hope I am given the same consideration if I happen to post something that isn't liked and then I state "just part of a public forum" or "if you don't like it, Oh well." Yes that is being a little "kinder."



Hope those who feel that way don't feel badly when it comes back to them.



Thanks again for your input ...and letting me know what your opinion is.





Mary



Vertical Limit Minis said:


> Welcome Outdoorchic!  And you are right.  This is not a numbers game.  Your post was honestly refreshing and new viewpoint  is always welcomed........like any new poster is welcomed!
> Now, that was MY little moonies that this fuss is over.  Good Grief....like I haven't got better things to do!  Here it is.........and Mary just because your name was part of a quote (and I did check), it does not mean that anyone was flaming you.  I guarantee that this had nothing to do with you personally. Believe me........if it was personal I have no qualms about saying so.  It was a joke between the three people below.
> 
> If you didn't like the humor oh well.  Again, part of a public Forum.
> ...


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## Relic (Sep 19, 2005)




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## Vertical Limit (Sep 19, 2005)

> Buckskin gal said:Carol, Thank you for clearing that up.
> 
> 
> 
> When a persons name is used and flaming and butt flashing is used in the same post, what is a person to think


Well, Mary, I am glad this cleared it up for you. If you thought for one minute this had something to do with you.......it truly did not.

And yes, I will be honest and say that a certain "toughening up" as you said is sometimes necessary even though the majority of posters really do not mean any harm. We all tend to race thru reading posts and really can take things quite wrong sometimes. I am guilty of it myself and I make sure to go back and REALLY READ what was said. Nine out of Ten times it clears things up.

And I meant no disrespect by telling you to take it or leave it. That is just the way it is. No matter what one person has to say, and no matter how nice they try to be, there is always someone out there that is going to be offended.

What is that old saying......You can please some of the people some of the time........Well, the rest eludes me



I am tired! But you catch my drift!

And yes, that being kinder has nothing to do with taking or leaving an absolute innocent





Sorry, I couldn't resist! So we have a difference in opinion when it comes to humor. Not so bad. Mary, one thing for certain. You will never have to second guess what is on my mind. I will tell you up front. There is no hidden meanings or agendas with me. You are just as important as the next. We are all just different.

Again, I am glad this issue is laid to rest. If you have the need to discuss this further I am always available and I am always willing to discuss things that bother people.

Truce?





Carol


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## Nickermaker (Sep 19, 2005)

I am one that was glad to see this topic also.

First off I don't post very much due to the fact I'm fairly new and no I guess I'm just not that tough to take all the flaming yet - hopefully it will come in time. As I've thought of posting on some topics then I see how some can get torn apart. So no I sit back - read - and think about what I would like to post - but then think I would probably be one getting flamed. even though my thoughts are not against or flaming anyone or anything and pertain to the topic. I have learned alot by just reading though. And if there is a post that gets too heated - I usually just quit reading it - as it usually gets pretty much off the topic by everyone flaming everyone towards the end. And what I figured would help me was pretty much at the beginning anyway - I don't need to read about everyone attacking each other - so on to the next topic to see what knowledge I can gain there.

Second off I do see that newcomers usually do receive less responses than someone that has been around here for awhile. I don't let this upset me as when I have a problem or question - I POST IT - and get some responses. Usually what I need I get, so am satisfied with that - USUALLY.

I see where everyone is coming from - yes I admit I am not tough enough to take alot of heat - so I don't post on some topics. This and the fact I work 40 hours a week, have 3 kids at home yet and a husband, plus all the critters outside that need to be tended to before I come on the forum. Lots of times am to tired to come on - so have do catch up - and some of the things are old news to all by the time I read them.

But I do have to say that I have been helped tremendously on here and sometimes I haven't (thinking this is because of my being fairly new and that I don't post on every topic). I do enjoy reading the posts though and the responses for the most part.


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## tagalong (Sep 19, 2005)

*Mary* - I am glad things got straightened out and you understood that you were mistaken - but it is posts like your upset one near the top of this page that tend to fan the flames and "get in people's faces"....

We all need to take a step back - and read what we have written before we hit *Add Reply.* Read it twice. _Three times._ The Edit button is your friend if you do tend to fire things off too quickly.





In other words - post to others as you would want them to post to you....


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## Sunseri Farms (Sep 19, 2005)

I'm confused!!!! Guess I am still to new!

I read more than I post. But find things interesting and do find some answers.

I also look for a friendly ear sometimes.

I don't want all the craziness just nice, helpful talk.

I personally say I'm sorry if I was every out of line.

E-mail me when I am! There is always the personal e-mail way.

I know sometimes with my schedule I can not read or post for several days.

So please excuse me if I am late

God Bless you all,

Joyce of Sunseri Farms

quote=tag-along,Sep 19 2005, 04:13 PM]

*Mary* - I am glad things got straightened out and you understood that you were mistaken - but it is posts like your upset one near the top of this page that tend to fan the flames and "get in people's faces"....

We all need to take a step back - and read what we have written before we hit *Add Reply.* Read it twice. _Three times._ The Edit button is your friend if you do tend to fire things off too quickly.





In other words - post to others as you would want them to post to you....





469675[/snapback]
​


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