# Looking into trying CDE



## Keri (Nov 2, 2009)

Are there any good books, websites, etc. on learning how to do CDE? I know there are different courses (dressage, obstacle), but I'm pretty much clueless. Our local club is trying to start the program back up and would love to support them. I'm purchasing a meadowbrook cart, but need to figure out the right harness. So I need suggestions on a good CDE harness (and one that's reasonable affordable for now), where to find the CDE rulebook, and any learning websites/books. And for those that show it, what's all involved? What does the horse need to know? My gelding drives show right now, but I drive him without a check when I'm not working him on headset. Someone told me checks weren't allowed. Thanks!


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## targetsmom (Nov 2, 2009)

There are a lot of folks on here who can help you better than I can, but I can maybe get you started. The American Driving Society (ADS) website is a great place to start. http://www.americandrivingsociety.org/.

Some books: Carriage Driving by Heike Bean and Sarah Blanchard and

Sports Driving by Amanda Saville

People seem ot lump a lot of different things into "CDE" but there are actually many different types of ADS driving events, from Pleasure Driving Shows, Arena Driving Trials (ADTs) Continuous Drives, Marathons, Cones, Dressage competitions and some others I probably haven't heard of. And yes, you won't be allowed to use a check and you will need to wear an apron and gloves and carry a whip.

Turnout is VERY important in most of these events so it is a good idea to get advice before you buy. You can probably start out with any harness though, and just remove the check.

There is a photo of us on a cones course in the current thread that Disneyhorse started about bits.

Where are you? The American Driving Society will have a booth at the MA Equine Affaire Breed Pavilion Nov 12-15.


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 2, 2009)

Actually although overchecks are definitely NOT allowed you can use a sidecheck or anti grazing check if you have a horse or pony that likes to dive for grass. There are several people on this forum that are involved with pleasure driving or combined driving with VSE's, myself included. Where are you located?


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## Keri (Nov 2, 2009)

I'm in Utah. The club is just starting up here (again, it died a few years ago). So I'm completely new.

Thanks Targetsmom! That site does help me. Thinking there will be cones, dressage and a trail/obstacle type course at this one. I have to find out more. They are having a meeting, but its a couple hours away from me on a weeknight. So I won't be able to make it. But emailing people to find out more.


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 2, 2009)

You need a horse that is fairly athletic, bold and capable. Your club might perhaps be persuaded to sponsor a clinic on pleasure driving or combined driving. There are tricks to learning to drive cones that you need to know such as don't look at the cones, look straight through the middle of them, if you look at them you will hit them, and more. Learning to condition your horse properly for a cross country course is a clinic all in itself! Dressage is something that if you have never ridden or driven a dressage test you will need some training or advice in order to be competitive in it. If you have a decent quality, well fitting harness now you can use it as is although if it has a straight breast collar you might want to invest in a v-shaped collar or better yet, a freedom collar to make your horse more comfortable. If all you have is a fine show harness without breeching you will need to look at getting a stronger, more durable harness with breeching. Ozark Mountain carries some decent harness for reasonable prices.


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## Peggy Porter (Nov 2, 2009)

WARNING! Driving a competition mini horse is VERY ADDICTIVE!!! Once you complete your first event, you'll be "jonesing" for your next fix! And here in the midwest, CDE with VSE divisions are few and far between!! Come join us!!


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## Keri (Nov 2, 2009)

Thanks! I'll check those out.

I've been practicing cones. Driving linear through them without moving a lot and a few other things. I know those are parts. And I take my minis out for a couple miles at a trot. He's pretty fit. But I'm clueless on the dressage part or the trail course they throw at you.

They do the CDE's out here after the show season. So I was looking for something we could do and keep up on playing around.



I'm sure I'll be addicted!


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 3, 2009)

Cones courses at a CDE are set up with at least 15 pairs of cones,numbered from 1 to whatever, with balls on top to be driven through in a timed course spread over a field. Faults are given for dislodging balls or knocking over cones. Win goes to the fastest time with the least number of faults. Although the cones can be set up in a line to be driven through more often than not they are in pairs. In ADS shows obstacle courses can be quite varied according to the class being offered.


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## targetsmom (Nov 3, 2009)

Cones courses are not always flat - this one was on a side hill that got 3 inches of rain the day before.


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 3, 2009)

Keri I often help out at our local driving club events here they have done playdays and ADT as well as ADS shows lots of fun people are great- so fun to see the many different types of horses and everyone out and enjoying themselves. They are pretty active here and sometimes for the shows or ADT they get people from WY and or UT maybe you can come up and watch

Even the judges and clinicians are so friendly and very willing to share info and welcome newcomers


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## End Level Farms (Nov 3, 2009)

I would definitely like to see a CDE Forum here on LB.q


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## targetsmom (Nov 3, 2009)

YES, sounds like a great idea to me too!


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## Annabellarose (Nov 3, 2009)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Just a quick question...but would it be useful if we start a CDE Forum here on LB?


I think that is a terrific idea! I would certainly be interested. Driving is definitely where my interest is and I would love to learn more about this sport. L'il Beginnings already has a few members that are quite accomplished in and/or familiar with this sport and it might draw more people to join to participate in a forum specifically for competitve driving.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 3, 2009)

Keri said:


> Are there any good books, websites, etc. on learning how to do CDE? I know there are different courses (dressage, obstacle), but I'm pretty much clueless. Our local club is trying to start the program back up and would love to support them. I'm purchasing a meadowbrook cart, but need to figure out the right harness. So I need suggestions on a good CDE harness (and one that's reasonable affordable for now), where to find the CDE rulebook, and any learning websites/books. And for those that show it, what's all involved? What does the horse need to know? My gelding drives show right now, but I drive him without a check when I'm not working him on headset. Someone told me checks weren't allowed. Thanks!


Hi Keri! You can compete in CDE with a show cart, especially if it's one you can retrofit with steel or wooden wheels to move up the levels. (Some organizers will not let you use pneumatic tires even at Training Level, but most will.) A Frontier or similar cart is great to start with. Any harness that has a good wide breastcollar and saddle and comes with breeching is okay for your first few events, just make sure it fits correctly and that the metal color matches what's on your cart. Pretty much the best CDE harness out there is the Camptown/Chimacum Tack Sport Harness which I love, love, love. It's extremely comfortable for the horse and the price isn't any worse than most of your basic show harnesses at $599 plus any upgrades you want.

As for what the horse needs to know, well...he needs at a minimum to be solid on walk, trot, whoa, stand and back, comfortable having other horses driving around him (including big multiple hitches!), and be confident going for a trail drive alone. He should let you rate his speed, both going faster and slower on command, and he should learn to be comfortable crossing water and driving through spooky things like billowing tarp panels and such. When you let out the reins at a walk he should extend his head down and foreward and "follow the bit," letting his back really swing and move. The nice thing about CDE is that they expect both you and your horse to learn and get better as you move up the levels so you can do well even with a green horse because he's competing against other horses with the same amount of training.



targetsmom said:


> The American Driving Society (ADS) website is a great place to start. http://www.americandrivingsociety.org/.
> Some books: Carriage Driving by Heike Bean and Sarah Blanchard and
> 
> Sports Driving by Amanda Saville


:*ThumbUp I have a very long list of driving books I like on my personal page with descriptions of what each one covers.* I need to add some more though; seems like I'm always finding new ones I like.



The Sports Driving book is really really good but it is written by a lady in England so some of the rules and terms are a little different and you need to read the ADS rulebook or talk to a more experienced driver to know what the differences are. The actual driving advice is spot-on though and very detailed. I learned a lot!



MiLo Minis said:


> Actually although overchecks are definitely NOT allowed you can use a sidecheck or anti grazing check if you have a horse or pony that likes to dive for grass.


That is only true at Training Level in combined driving. Overchecks and martingales are never allowed, side checks are allowed only at Training Level, and breeching is required unless your vehicle has brakes.



Keri said:


> But I'm clueless on the dressage part or the trail course they throw at you.


Dressage at Training Level is mostly about establishing the foundations a horse needs to move up the levels. His gaits should be rhythmic, his body straight (meaning it follows the path he travels on, so a straight line if he's traveling straight and a bent line if he's on a circle or other figure), his hindquarters engaged and he should stretch through his topline. He should show relaxation and submission to the bit, meaning no gaping or throwing his head or tensing up through his back and neck. His transitions should be soft and prompt, his halts quiet, and in general he should look like a pleasure to work with. Nothing fancy! They don't give a darn what kind of action he has or where his head is, only that he's moving in a correct manner for his abilities.

The cross-country marathon is a book in itself. Let me keep it very simple and say that you go a certain distance at a certain pre-determined pace, in our case a slow 9kph, and interspersed in that distance you have obstacles or hazards where speed counts. Training Level is not timed in the hazards so you just trot through A, B, and C in the right order nice and steady, but Preliminary Level and up are timed in the hazards and must go through the gates in the right order as fast as safely possible. Once you exit the hazard you go back to your steady distance pace and must come in at the end within a 3 minute window. If this is going to be a winter sport in your area it's probably going to be in an Arena Driving Trial or ADT format where you don't actually go cross-country, you just do hazards set up in an arena.



MiLo Minis said:


> Cones courses at a CDE are set up with at least 15 pairs of cones,numbered from 1 to whatever, with balls on top to be driven through in a timed course spread over a field. Faults are given for dislodging balls or knocking over cones. *Win goes to the fastest time with the least number of faults*. Although the cones can be set up in a line to be driven through more often than not they are in pairs.


That is not strictly true at a CDE- in fact in our area the award for best cones is given to the driver who comes the closest to "optimum time," which means essentially the slowest driver who didn't go _too_ slow!






(It's a bit annoying since the rest of the country gives Best Cones to the fastest driver who goes clean, but hey.) The criteria for "Best Cones" is up to the organizer of the given CDE. The real function of the cones phase is to test the horse's agility and control after a grueling marathon the day before. Does he have the stamina to make the minimum time and still go clean? Does his driver have the precision to hit his mark time after time after time without jerking his horse around? The goal is to avoid adding penalty points to the score you've already accumulated in dressage and marathon and hence keep your placing. The organizer can offer special awards like "Best Dressage," "Best Marathon," "Best Cones," "Best First-Time Competitor" and such but the only ribbon you earn for the actual CDE is the cumulative division placing earned through all three phases. You don't get ribbons for your placing in dressage or cones.

Now at a Pleasure Driving show or other type of competition the cones course is a class of its own and you will get a ribbon for it, and fastest time may be necessary to win. But that's not the case at a CDE.





Hope that helps!

Leia


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## Keri (Nov 3, 2009)

Hey, Lisa, let me know when they are. I'd love to come watch and find out more.

My boy is pretty steady. Drives nicely. I drive all my horses out on the road. So not a whole lot spooks them (dogs, kids, cars, etc.) and he drives alone. I think he'd be perfect for it. We drive WP at the shows. Just looking for something else to play around with in the off season.

I'm selling my frontier and getting a meadowbrook right now. Figure if I'm going to do it, might as well start out with the right cart so that I can move up in levels. And thanks for the harness suggestion Leia. I have to purchase a new one for him for this type of competition.

A CDE forum would be a great addition. I think driving questions sometimes get jumbled answers due to people coming from all different worlds of driving.


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## RhineStone (Nov 3, 2009)

I just joined this forum, but Leia has a CDE forum on her website if you all are desperate for more CDE info!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 3, 2009)

Keri said:


> I'm selling my frontier and getting a meadowbrook right now. Figure if I'm going to do it, might as well start out with the right cart so that I can move up in levels.


 A true Meadowbrook, as in a wooden cart with fenders and rear entry, is usually way too heavy for a mini to compete in. I'm glad you're serious about this but you may want to wait and see what types of carts are out there before you invest in one so you don't end up trading up yet again just a few months later. I know you'll be happy with the Sport Harness as it's top of the line, but there's a lot of nice metal CDE carts out there with marathon shafts and torsion axles and wedge seats and other good features and you may find you prefer one of them. Wooden carts with straight horizontal shafts are very classy but not as easy for a horse to bend in and can be a pain in the rear for cones and marathon.







Keri said:


> I think driving questions sometimes get jumbled answers due to people coming from all different worlds of driving.


Yep, but I think sometimes it exposes people to more than one way of doing things and that can be nothing but good!





Leia


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## Keri (Nov 3, 2009)

Yep, its a true meadowbrook. I've always seen pics with those carts. So I figured that's what I needed to get. If not, what type of cart would I need?


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## Field-of-Dreams (Nov 3, 2009)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Just a quick question.. but would it be useful if we start a CDE Forum here on LB?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



YES!

I have a ton of questions, too: what do I wear, how much does it cost to enter, does he need to be clipped...etc etc etc






Lucy


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## targetsmom (Nov 3, 2009)

I would like to just add that I posted that photo of a cones course (on page 1) before this thread got so involved. As my trainer was so quick to point out to me, there are at least 10 or 12 thing WRONG in that photo, from harness fit, to what I am wearing! She hated the colored tie I added to my helmet just for starters. So please don't assume anything in that photo is your ideal.


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## Dream (Nov 3, 2009)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Just a quick question.. but would it be useful if we start a CDE Forum here on LB?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, Yes, Yes! Great idea Mary Lou!


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## rcfarm (Nov 3, 2009)

HI

I just joined the Florida Whips. Went to our first fun competition, had a blast. Just did a fun trail ride , judged on costume(Halloween) , cones, and picnic baskets. I won best costume



First time for my gelding he did great. Looking forward to more, but the dressage always gets me





I would love to see more about CDE on forum. As I am a beginner.

This past weekent I used a easty entry cart with wood wheels. I would love to get a cart that looks good and can take you thru all CDE event. Anybody have pictures of the carts you use?


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## susanne (Nov 3, 2009)

[i posted this before seeing Mary Lou's last post mentioning the new board, which, by the name, appears to be more inclusive than just CDE...so never mind! Or perhaps this can be a thought as to the direction this board might go.]

My eyes and ears are always open to anything regarding CDE, so I would enjoy a forum board dedicated to this topic, and I would love to see more mini folks give CDE a try and see how much fun it is.

...but...

How about, instead of focusing strictly on CDE, expanding it to cover the various forms of competetive and recreational driving outside the breed show ring? There are many common issues and questions that extend beyond CDE.

If a given board lacks frequent and regular response, people tend to stop looking to see what is new, which is very frustrating when it is a great category. I think that driving board would bring more activity if it also included:

ADS pleasure driving

Harness racing

Trail and off-road driving

Parade driving

Therapeutic driving

Training the versatile driving horse

...and so forth.

Again, I love CDE and I would frequent such a board (along with several other forums and list-servs), but I think it could share space (and readers) with other adventures in mini driving.


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## targetsmom (Nov 3, 2009)

I just started a thread on the new driving forum....


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## targetsmom (Nov 4, 2009)

Just wondering if a moderator would want to move this thread to the new Driving forum. There is some good basic info on here.


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## sassy1 (Nov 5, 2009)

Two of my favourite sites are

:modedit: THIS TEXT REMOVED BY ADMIN. PLEASE READ RULES PERTAINING TO OUTSIDE LINKS NOT ALLOWED.


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## Kendra (Nov 5, 2009)

Keri said:


> Are there any good books, websites, etc. on learning how to do CDE? I know there are different courses (dressage, obstacle), but I'm pretty much clueless. Our local club is trying to start the program back up and would love to support them. I'm purchasing a meadowbrook cart, but need to figure out the right harness. So I need suggestions on a good CDE harness (and one that's reasonable affordable for now), where to find the CDE rulebook, and any learning websites/books. And for those that show it, what's all involved? What does the horse need to know? My gelding drives show right now, but I drive him without a check when I'm not working him on headset. Someone told me checks weren't allowed. Thanks!



Hi Keri,

Just a note on equipment - I did my very first CDE in September, and I used my Jerald cart and new show harness. And it worked great, I have no plans to save for a new cart - the Jerald was great, I used it basket on for dressage and cones, and off for marathon. The only change I plan to make for next year is adding some solid wheels so I have the option to show Preliminary. Anyway, I just didn't want you to think you had to invest in a whole bunch of new equipment to give it a try!!


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## Krazee bout Kasspur (Nov 5, 2009)

I am very happy to see the different topics on the competition driving! Can be a bit confusing to a newbie trying to sort it all out.

I've been going to a yearly CDE an hour away just to observe and maybe dream of competing myself one day. In the meantime I can live vicariously through those of you here.

Sure wish it was more popular in my area.


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## Bozley (Nov 8, 2009)

Are there any CDE competitions in the MA/NH/ME area that you know of?


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## targetsmom (Nov 8, 2009)

Sue (or anyone else in the New England area)- stop in the American Driving Society Booth in the Breed Pavilion (Stroh Building) at Equine Affaire this week! They should have a list of clubs and/or websites where you can get that info. There is a perfect beginner CDE in central CT in early June and the Pleasure Driving Show I went to was in western Mass. I know there are more!! And don't be afraid to beg for a VSE division if there isn't one already. Or do what I did at the Pleasure Show and enter the Novice Whip Division and stick to events with individual patterns. For example I just did dressage, cones, reinsmanship, and progressive cones, competing against big - sometimes HUGE horses. But no one was ever in the ring with me.


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## Bozley (Nov 8, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I will check it out at the Equine Affaire. Makayla and I love looking into different things we can do with our minis.


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## nbark (Nov 9, 2009)

Bozley said:


> Are there any CDE competitions in the MA/NH/ME area that you know of?



Hi Bozley,

The Myopia Driving Club is looking to make a mini division for ADTs and CDE competitions. We now have three minis but if you are interested in this, check out the web page and come to some events next year, starting with the Frostbite series. There is also an ADT going on at Mary Gray's in NH, just had the first of three last week, the next one is the 15th of Nov and the last one is December 6....She is in Danville NH and it is set up beautifully. Huge indoor ring with viewing room (with a fireplace to hang out in and watch) a separate area for the obstacles and cones and very nice people....hope you come and join us....and help us get the mini division going....by the way, no unhitching at these events, you do your dressage, head out and do your obstacles and then finish with the cones...

nbark


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## Bozley (Nov 9, 2009)

That is great info. We will definitely check it out. Are you still all driving on Saturdays at Maudslay? We have 3 horses that we are itching to get out and drive more.


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## foxlanefarm (Nov 11, 2009)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Just a quick question.. but would it be useful if we start a CDE Forum here on LB?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would love to see a CDE/ ADT Forum. I took my pair to our first CDE in Ohio and we had an absolute blast. I am hooked for sure



It would be nice from my standpoint anyway to include Shetland Ponies.

Thanks for starting this


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## REO (Nov 11, 2009)

Foxlanefarm, that's what this forum *is*!

But it is for ALL types of driving! So post and share away! I don't see any harm in posting here about ponies. If it's driving the small equine, IMO, it's welcome here!

Robin





(The driving forum Mod)


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