# Types, Heights, Divisions...



## Jill (Jul 6, 2008)

Can you all explain to me (and show examples, please) about the different height divisions with the ponies, the different types (Modern? Classic? and etc., if there is an etc.!). Also, what is A or B in ponies? (I know what it is in minis of course).

I love the looks of many of the AMHR/ASPC minis I have seen, but I do not know anything about ASPC horses at all. But, I'm very interested to learn! A blank slate so would appreciate any and all information you all will share.

Thanks!!!


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## Leeana (Jul 6, 2008)

Well the A & B at this point does not matter any longer, but the "A" was the classic bred ponies and the "B" was the modern bred ponies. The A / B does not refer to height, rather breeding. This year, with us now showing on type instead of papers, i believe they removed the A/B from the papers but im not sure, i have not recieved a new set of shetland papers since back in december.

Foundation ponies (in order to show) must be 42" and under at the withers. Classics and Moderns have the "under division" which is 42" & under at the withers, then the "over division" which is 42" - 46" at the withers.

Foundation - For showing purpose 42" and under. More heavier boned and built pony, less extreme in motion. Think "old type shetland pony". They must have the foundation seal, i believe (going off memory) in order to get the seal all ponies going back so many generations must be under 42" and "a" papered.







Classic - For showing purpose 46" and under. Very refined animal and build. More refined then the foundation pony, leggy ext. Just a tad more extreme overal then the foundation. Longer more exotic necks.

(I could show this filly modern pleasure, i think she fits both classic and MP type, just depends how i condition and handle her).

Alpha Farms Magical Melody 42" as a yearling

**Note the refinement





















Alpha Farms Magical Debut HOF 42"

Congress Reserve GRAND Champion and 4x Congress Champion with Quay
















Modern Pleasure & Modern i will leave up to someone else to break down, i could explain them but im sure someone else could explain them better (Andreaaaaaa) .....


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## disneyhorse (Jul 6, 2008)

Leeana... I will have to go back and check the Rulebook but i think the cutoff for the "Under/Over" division for the Classics, Modern Pleasure, and Moderns is 43" not 42"?

The difference between Modern and Modern Pleasure is generally how extreme their motion is. Classic ponies move beautifully... they are VERY graceful and are big movers in their own right. Moderns move differently... you will see both big "open" movement but also more of a marching high movement in front (and preferrably all fours). Modern Pleasures will move up to breaking level but are not extreme. Moderns break level in front or beyond.

As to conformation, the Modern pony generally has a trademark neck that comes straight up out of their shoulders. The line from the chest up the neck to the head should be pretty much vertical. Because they had/have a lot of Hackney pony background, and Hackneys are not generally noted for a "pretty" head, the Moderns may have a heavier, straighter head than the Classic ponies which are more Welsh-like. Some people say "ugly head" but most Moderns don't always have an "ugly" head it's just different. Like the Classic ponies, the Moderns have extremely flat toplines with a very high tailset, refined bodies and legs. They generally have a longer back that they can drop for more motion in the front end. A Modern is generally built more for movement and less for looks compared to the Classic, so some conformational "attractiveness" is sacrificed for function. I would say overall type, the Modern Pleasures are a little bit "prettier" than the Moderns but not always... but sort of the prettiness level between "Classic" and "Modern."

Although people claim that a pony is "ONLY ONE TYPE AND SHOULD BE SHOWN AS SUCH" I have seen countless times people moving their pony around in type! A Classic can be shown as Modern Pleasure, particularly if they put keg shoes on them and grow their toe out a bit so they move a little more extreme. A Modern Pleasure may be shown if you put weighted shoes on them and work them enough to build the muscles to be Modern. Moderns can be bumped down to Modern Pleasure if you keep them barefoot or not work them as extremely. However, not all horses are borderline and some are pretty much exactly the division they are in and can't move up or down.

This is my two year old mare, she is Modern Pleasure:






You can see her neck comes almost straight up out of her neck, she has a heavy (but it's not ugly!) head, a longish back, flat topline, and lots of leg. She is VERY much a Modern Pleasure horse. There is no way she could show as a Classic I think. However, her motion is not very extreme, so she could never show as a Modern no matter how hard she tries.

This is my yearling colt. He is Modern/Modern Pleasure. With keg shoes on, he just breaks level. Jennifer Radoi (Sweet Opal) has his full sister that showed as a Modern Pleasure but has been bumped up to Modern this year with training and shoes. So you see, this is an example of a horse that might be borderline.











I would love to post some pictures of his sister and the difference training makes for these guys, but I may leave that up to her.

Lastly, my old 20 year mare is a Modern. She is not as "pretty" as my black mare, who is a Modern Pleasure, as this mare is built mostly to move. She has a long, upright neck with a high wither, a long dippy back, high tailset. She moves high on all fours, even when barefoot (and foundered!). I am not sure she fits the Modern Pleasure type, I think she just might be a Modern.






I am by no means an expert on ponies, but that is my take on the Moderns from what I have gathered so far!

Andrea


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## Jill (Jul 7, 2008)

Thank you, Leeana and Andrea! Your posts are very informative and helpful


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## SweetOpal (Jul 8, 2008)

The Modern Division is truly a performance division. I hear people say they don't find the modern attractive, I find it quiet the opposite! I think alot of times what people think is switching around may be for different reasons. My mare Fancy who is a full sister to Quake, Andrea's horse, was shown in Modern Pleasure HALTER, her body type standing there is very pleasure in type. However her movement is Modern, hence the reason she is now showing as a harness pony. She is not showing in Halter this year becuase her body type is not Modern but more pleasure, and not to mention I was showing her and doing the work myself, never getting her full potential as a driving and movement horse. She is now with John Rimmer who has taken my toad and turned her into the Princess she knew she was. Pow wow is another example of this also, standing in halter he is very much Modern in type, but movement he is pleasure, so he has shown all year in Pleasure halter due to the fact he has driven all year in Formal Pleasure.

I personally don't feel that a classic can show as Modern or Modern Pleasure, to me there is a huge difference in these 2 types. However the best place to really see the difference in types is at the Congress, you really cant count a local show on our side of the country to base what the difference is, we really don't have a ton of horses competing and you need to get out and see what is really out there showing. This is why I enjoy traveling to shows, so I can see how my horses measure up to what is really out there.

I also feel that the movement in a Modern is a natural ability, yes we can fine tune them into what they will be, but they either have it or they don't. My Apache will only be a country, my Paul horse will only be a roadster no amount of exercise, weighted or not weighted shoes are going to change thier natural movement on either of these horses.

I was actually suprised to learn at the 2006 Convention why the Modern Pleasure division was started. I will leave it up to someone from the Modern World to give it full justice as I am sure over the past 2 years I have forgotten some of it.

I have had alot of fun showing not only my own ponies this year, but also Andrea's 2 ponies, Quake and Persia this year as well....I am hoping that next year Andrea herself can get out and get those ponies shown(hint..hint...



) both deserve the chance to have thier mommy show them.


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## Irish Hills Farm (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks Andrea, Leeana, and Jennifer for your explanations. I am so looking forward to Congress and seeing the different types of ponies there.


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## TomEHawk (Jul 8, 2008)

Jill,

In the ASPC/AMHR rule book all the different height limits are listed for all divsions of moderns, classics, foundation classics, ASPRs, and minis.

As for differences between the divsions, here are some examples with some explanations.






This is a modern stallion that has been shown in harness driving classes. He has a lot of front movement with light snappy hocks.






Here is an example of a roadster pony. His front movement is still high like a harness pony but road ponies have a bit more extension with less hock movement.






Here is a modern pleasure driver. Pleasrue ponies have a lilttle less knee action than harness and roadster ponies with less hock movement.






Here is a pleasure halter pony. Notice she has less knee movement. Pleasure ponies generally are better mannered than open harness or roadster ponies.






This is a modern pleasure halter but can still work a modern halter as well. She has a long neck that is set high which enables moderns to have such nice driving carriages.


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## TomEHawk (Jul 8, 2008)

Now here are some examples of classics and foundation classics.






Here is a classic driver. Classics have less knee movement than moderns. They still have a good neck set to have a nice carriage for driving.






Here is a classic hatler pony.






Here is a foundation halter pony. They normally have a lower neck set and are a bit heavier boned than your classics and moderns.

Unfortunally I don't have any movement pictures of a foundation, but they normally have less movement than classics.


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## Jill (Jul 9, 2008)

Thank you for adding your input, Jennifer and Jason! It sounds like a lot of good information being shared and I appreciate it











It's also great to get to see all these gorgeous ponies







exspony said:


>


I wonder if there are any ASPC/AMHR horses that move like this? I'd love THAT!









I love THAT in "tall", too -- who could help but???


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## Karen S (Jul 9, 2008)

Hi Jill,

Yes, there are some out there. Dale & Shirley Lutke raise some that are small, sheltands as well. Most of the D & S ponies come from the Seth Thomas line. Larry Parnell likes those for the Park Harness class and he has one right now (a black one) that is in roadster and he can move!

Karen


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## Jill (Jul 9, 2008)

Oh, neat!!! Thanks for the info, Karen.

I know Erica's Pharoah (National Grand) was bred by Lutke and that Larry Parnell shows her gorgeous driving gelding, Jesse... I love both those boys.

Either yesterday or today, Erica's taking our stallion, Destiny, back to Larry for Destiny to have some fun drivng (he trained him about 18mos ago)


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## TomEHawk (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey Jill,






This pony is Excaliber's Knights & Days. He is 2-time Congress Reserve Grand Champion Modern Stallion under, and he is double registered ASPC/AMHR.






This pony is RFP Time Is Money. He is a Congress Modern Halter Champion and a Reserve Congress Roadster Champion and is also ASPC/AMHR registered.

I own both of these ponies. Money is open to outside mares, but Knights is not. I have one ASPC/AMHR colt out of Money and an ASPC/AMHR mare that is out of the Seth Thomas bloodline.


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## Jill (Jul 9, 2008)

They both look amazing!!!


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## Irish Hills Farm (Jul 9, 2008)

exspony said:


> This pony is RFP Time Is Money. He is a Congress Modern Halter Champion and a Reserve Congress Roadster Champion and is also ASPC/AMHR registered.
> 
> I own both of these ponies. Money is open to outside mares, but Knights is not. I have one ASPC/AMHR colt out of Money and an ASPC/AMHR mare that is out of the Seth Thomas bloodline.


Jason,

Post a picture of this colt you mentioned above. He has to be a knock out!!


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## TomEHawk (Jul 9, 2008)

The only pictures I have of the little colt are when he was just 4 days old, and neither of them are of him moving. But here he is, Excaliber's Cash Money.


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## Jill (Jul 10, 2008)

Jason -- He looks so upright and handsome!!! Jill


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## TomEHawk (Jul 10, 2008)

Hey Jill,

He is pretty cool. I think when he matures he'll be a nice little modern pleasure. In the mini division he could show as a park horse or a extreme pleasure driver.

Jason


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