# Heartworm meds VS Ivermectin (dog related)



## Marty (Mar 21, 2007)

My dogs have been on Heartguard Plus forever that I buy at the vet.

It's very expensive to give to large dogs, so I am wondering

what everyone else uses for Heartworm preventitive.

Some breeders have been telling me that I have been wasting my money and to just use ivermectin that comes in a bottle like from Jeffers etc.

Who knew?


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## Chaos Ranch (Mar 21, 2007)

The lady I got my dogs from used to be a vets assistant and she has spent several years in college. I told her I used to give my dogs horse dewormer for heart worms and she told me that for over 15 years now she's given her dogs a mixture of propalyn glycol and Ivemec (cattle dewormer- liquid form) and her dogs have always tested clean for heartworms. She used to have a large kennel of dogs (upwards of 85 dogs) and she treated dogs from Maltese to Great Pyranees with this mixture and it has always done well for her dogs.

She gets her supplies from www.revivalanimal.com .

She consults 3 different vets with her health plans for her dogs and they all agree with her methods. I haven't tried it yet but I'm going to when she gets her new shipment in.


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## sdmini (Mar 21, 2007)

Certain dogs do not handle it well at all.

Seems like the Collies are very prone to getting sick with it. I know I did it once with my Blue Heeler, made him loopy for a couple hours. Heelers are not typically effected, that I've heard, but mine was and I talked to the breeder and his sire couldn't handle it either.

I do know that the cattle Ivermec cut with propalyn glycol makes great cat ear mite treatment. I also know if you compare the labels on Cattle Injectable Ivermec and Eqlvan the labels are the same but the price is quite different. :lol:


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## Katie12 (Mar 21, 2007)

I use Tri Heart Plus. You can get it online with a script from Vet. It's the generic for heartguard only cheaper.


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## RnRs Lilnickers (Mar 21, 2007)

I found this site for Frontline Plus much cheaper and I think I remember seeing something for heartworm too, check it out prices are the cheapest I have found.

www.canadavet.com

I have not ordered from here yet but I am planning on sending in an order in few weeks. Has anyone ordered from here?


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## ForMyACDs (Mar 21, 2007)

I don't know the exact mixture off hand, but yes, the ivermectin needs to be mixed with a carrier (ie. propalene glycol - sp?). The dose given to the dogs is very small and if given straight (without a carrier) it does make them loopy for a while. We're now using Iverhart Max at our vet clinic. Heartguard has raised their prices to make it too expensive for even us to buy so we switched over to Iverhart last year. The bonus with the Max is that it now worms for tapeworms as well as other intestinal worms and is also a heartworm prevention. Sure beats the $$$$$ tapeworm meds!

As for the collie deal.....it's not every collie that is affected by ivermectin. SOME collies have a genetic disorder that makes them unable to properly process ivermectin. The only way to be able to tell is a test or if the dog shows a reaction. The number of dogs affected is quite small.


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## jayne (Mar 21, 2007)

Kim! Please do not try the ivermectin with your aussies!! Ivermectin is deadly to collie type breeds and that includes aussies! My vet was here and saw some ivermectin tubes in the trash and told me to make sure my Aussie NEVER got in contact with them. I also knew this from doing research too. Please be careful!! Doesn't seem to me it's worth the risk just to save a couple of bucks.

Jayne


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## Bluerocket (Mar 21, 2007)

And I believe it is bad with Corgis too -- I am thinking it was "herding breeds" but not positive about that.


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## Jill (Mar 21, 2007)

Well, this has come up before and it can be a very foolish way to "save" money as ivermectin is very deadly to some breeds of dogs (primarily herding dogs). My thought is that anyone who can afford to own horses, a huge non-necessity and luxury, can surely afford to give their dog the proper heartworm preventative.


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## Marty (Mar 21, 2007)

I don't have a good feeling about using any kind of cattle mixture so I'm not about to do that.

_Heartguard has raised their prices _

You are so right about that one, but that is all my vet offers. I doubt he'd be giving out a RX to another brand. Marking up his meds is one way of making money.

_My thought is that anyone who can afford to own horses, a huge non-necessity and luxury, can surely afford to give their dog the proper heartworm preventative._

I feel the same way Jill. I don't cut corners or try to on my animal's health, feed, or anything, never did. When that day ever comes, I won't have animals.

I'm merely asking about other alternatives to Heartguard Plus, and I never heard of using ivermectrin before to control heartworms.


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## Sterling (Mar 21, 2007)

I use Interceptor Tabs. It's about $3.00 a tab. It also gets rid of another kind of worm that I can't remember off the top of my head.....maybe tapeworms.


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## Vertical Limit (Mar 21, 2007)

Marty said:


> .
> 
> I'm merely asking about other alternatives to Heartguard Plus, and I never heard of using ivermectrin before to control heartworms.


Marty, if you look on your Heartgard box it is the combination of IVERMECTIC/PYRANTEL that constitutes heartworm prevention.

I imagine you could use a combination of these drugs.....but I won't do it to save a buck.

I pay about $5.25 for each Heargard chewable for a dog over 55 pounds. Or about $65 a year. Not bad.


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## Hosscrazy (Mar 21, 2007)

My dog got sick a few years ago from heartworms, which she most likely picked up from the trails I take her on. Ever since then I've kept her on Heartguard and it sure is a lot chaper than the vet bill! You can usually find good prices on Heartguard on petmeds.com or kvvet.com.

Liz R.


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## Nemesis (Mar 21, 2007)

Heartgard's active ingredient is Ivomectin. Many many breeders including all the racing greyhound kennels use Ivomectin for their heartworm treatment. It is also the treatment of choice for demodectic and sarcoptic mange.

Some collie type dogs do have a sensetivity to the Ivomectin but if you are using heartgard or any of the heartworm preventatives with Ivomectin in as the main active ingredient then if they were going to have a reaction they would have had it with the dog labelled heartworm preventative.


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## MSRminis (Mar 21, 2007)

I use the "plus" kind with iver/pyrantel since my dogs eat a lot of horse poop-I like to get rid of as many parasites as I can. You can order from Canada Vet without a prescription and they offer the generic ones as well that are less expensive. Last time I ordered from them though they did not have the meaty chewable kind-just the tabs.


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## Marty (Mar 21, 2007)

Generic Name

Ivermectin (eye-ver-mekâ€™-tin)

Brand Name(s)

Heartgard (Merial), Heartgard Plus (Merial), Heartguard (mis-spelled)



(My dogs have always been on the Heartguard Plus version of this which includes pyrantel)

What is this medication used for

Heartgard is an anthelminthic (dewormer) used for the prevention of heartworm disease in dogs and cats. Heartgard is also used for the control of hookworm in cats. Combined with pyrantel pamoate (Heartgard Plus), it also protects against hookworm and roundworm in dogs.

Availability

Heartgard is available by prescription as unflavored tablets and flavored chewable tablets. Heartgard Plus is available as flavored chewable tablets

How this medicine should be used

Heartgard is given once a month year round for the prevention of heartworm disease. The usual dose of Heartgard in dogs up to 25 pounds is 68mcg, for 26-50 pounds is 136mcg and for 51-100 pounds is 272mcg. Dogs over 100 pounds are given a combination of tablets. The usual dose of Heartgard in cats 5 pounds or less is 55mcg and for cats 6-15 pounds is 165mcg. The chewable tablets should be chewed. They are not meant to be swallowed whole. For dogs that normally swallow treats whole, the tablet can be broken into pieces. As an alternate to year round dosing, this medication can be given during the mosquito season and for one month after the season ends.

What are the side effects

The side effects of Heartgard are rare at the recommended heartworm prevention dose. Higher doses in dogs may cause tremors, dilated pupils, and loss of body weight or death. Side effects in cats include agitation, loss of appetite, staggering, dilated pupils, tremors, blindness and disorientation.

What special precautions are there

This medication should not be used in animals allergic to it. Use with caution in Collies. Heartworm testing should be performed prior to the start of prevention therapy. If the animal is off Heartgard for 6 months or less, start the medication and test after 6 months since microfilaria, that take 6 months to mature, will result in a positive test result. Because humans can contract hookworm from animals, it is important to maintain good personal hygiene. It is also important to eliminate fleas on the pet and in the household and to not feed the pet rodents or uncooked meat or fish. To prevent reinfection, daily cleanup of stools is recommended.


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## Chaos Ranch (Mar 21, 2007)

Jill said:


> Well, this has come up before and it can be a very foolish way to "save" money as ivermectin is very deadly to some breeds of dogs (primarily herding dogs). My thought is that anyone who can afford to own horses, a huge non-necessity and luxury, can surely afford to give their dog the proper heartworm preventative.



The proper heart worm preventative? Which one is *the * proper one? The woman I was talking about has treated her dogs (Aussies) with this mixture every month for many years and she's never lost a herding dog to Ivermectin poisoning. It has no ill side-effects on her dogs, they stay healthy and well taken care of. Her treatment regimen has been cleared as healthy and efficient by 3 different vets.

I can't help but feel offended by the statement that "surely I can afford to buy the proper treatment for my dogs". I think there are several people (like me) that would like to be able to save a few dollars when and wherever they can as long as they do not compromise the health of their pets.

* Edited.... * I have had a really bad day and popped off... sorry ya'll. I do my best for my dogs that I can and sometimes my best isn't as good as some other people's best is... but I do try to improve at all times.

From what I gathered of the question a compairison was asked. I was just trying to give input from the side that uses the ivemectin (sp?) for their dogs. Not that everyone should do it... it's up to the individual to do as they feel comfortable doing.

I know tons of horse people around here (some are mini horse people some big horse people) that use Ivermectin Cattle injectable as an oral dewormer for their horses even though it's not labeled for that use. Loads of medications, household cleaners, and other things are used for instances that they were not originally designed for...some with good results... some with not so good results.

Again, it's "one of those days" for me so I'll just shut up now and go back to my corner. One of these days I'll learn not to offer my two cents when some say that's all the sense I have.




:


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## runamuk (Mar 21, 2007)

Marty said:


> I don't have a good feeling about using any kind of cattle mixture so I'm not about to do that.
> 
> _Heartguard has raised their prices _
> 
> ...


Marty ivermectin is the main ingredient in several of the heartworm meds.

There are a few generics or alternate brands that have been named and look online to see if you can get them cheaper alot of the online/catalog companies do sell for less.

And heartworm isn't something that is prevelant the world over some of us live in places where heartworm has never been an issue.


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## Jill (Mar 21, 2007)

Chaos Ranch said:


> Jill said:
> 
> 
> > Well, this has come up before and it can be a very foolish way to "save" money as ivermectin is very deadly to some breeds of dogs (primarily herding dogs). My thought is that anyone who can afford to own horses, a huge non-necessity and luxury, can surely afford to give their dog the proper heartworm preventative.
> ...


For one thing, my remark was not directed at you.

As to the proper preventative, in my opinion (as that's the one I know the best), the proper kind for starters is what's made specifically for dogs. A vet can advise what is safe for certain breeds as mine has advised me.

We have 6 dogs, 2 of whom are "large". The cost of the heartworm medicine hasn't been a second thought since it is so inexpensive. It costs more than the stuff made for livestock, sure, but it's safe for my dogs including my herding breed Collie.

When it comes to dogs, the "*Ivermetcin Rule*" goes:

[SIZE=18pt][/SIZE]

_White feet, don't treat_


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## chandab (Mar 21, 2007)

Jill said:


> When it comes to dogs, the "*Ivermetcin Rule*" goes:
> 
> [SIZE=18pt][/SIZE]
> 
> _White feet, don't treat_



Jill beat me to it... This is what I've always read/heard. It's the "white-footed" dogs that are more likely to react negatively to ivermectin. [collies, aussies, corgies, shelties and I'm sure there are others.]


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## Chaos Ranch (Mar 21, 2007)

I've heard the white feet don't treat saying before, but then I got to thinking...Some (most) Rat Terriers have white feet. Pyrenees have white feet. Boston terriers have white feet. Many Beagles have white feet. Many Bassett hounds have white feet. Lots of dogs have white feet. Some of my Aussies don't have white feet. Some of the Black tris and black bi's. One red tri that I had didn't have white feet.


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## Irish Hills Farm (Mar 21, 2007)

I use Interceptor, have since I've had Copper. It is not only a heartworm, it also kills other worms such as whip, hook, ah...round and something else.

I will be putting Suzie on it soon and it is only $40.00 for a 6 month supply for her and she is a BIG dog.


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## anita (Mar 21, 2007)

Sheryl~Irish Hills Farm said:


> I use Interceptor, have since I've had Copper. It is not only a heartworm, it also kills other worms such as whip, hook, ah...round and something else.
> 
> I will be putting Suzie on it soon and it is only $40.00 for a 6 month supply for her and she is a BIG dog.



Sounds good. If you don't mind when I ask where do you get that?

Anita


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## Irish Hills Farm (Mar 21, 2007)

Anita, I get it from my vet and you can also order it from one or two of the equine/dog catalogs. Can't think of which ones right now, want to say Country something and Valley Vet. But here in TN there isn't to much difference in price between the vet and the catalogs.


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## Boinky (Mar 21, 2007)

Well if you all want to go the "don't cut corners" theory then you should really have your dogs tested for the (i beleive it's called) MR-1 test which tests for ivermectin senstivity. there IS a test for it! If you don't test for it then i'd say your probably cutting corners by not treating your dog with ivermectin to begin with. I breed aussies and NOT ALL aussies or herding dogs have this problem. it tends to run in certain faimliar lines. it also is usually so sensitive that even one dose of regular heart worm would send them into shock. If your dog has ever had heart worm or anything with ivermectin in it..then it's probably pretty darned safe to say that your dog does NOT have the MR-1 sensitivity gene. you CAN overdose them on it though. I first spoke to my vet before doing this and he said it was fine to use the Equimax (also has tape wormer in it) for horses. my only OPSIE was that the lock on the manufacturors syringe did NOT lock and i ended up giving a whole tube to one dog. she was like a doggie on crack for 24 hours and i ended up taking her to the vet for it (they did very little other than supportive care) .but she came out of it fine. I have since come up with a better method to make sure they get the right dosage by using a smaller syringe which has been broken down to weight for dogs and i squirt it on my finger and then rub it on their tongue. works great and no overdosing..

I would say don't let that old saying prevent you from doing what NEEDS to be done (ie. heartworm prevention) and i also don't think that you nessarily have to go through a vet to do it. It takes very little ivermectin to kill heartworm from my research. I'd do the MR-1 test if there is any doubt in your mind before hand.

I also wouldn't say people are cutting corners..if they are a big kennel could you IMAGINE how much money would be put into worming and properly caring for a dog by going through the vet? that is not economically feasible for most. at least they ARE doing it even if it's saving a few $$. I've heard of many many breeders that do the cattel ivermectin suspension. not sure i'd trust myself to mix it right..lol i'll stick with the tube wormer i think but at least these dogs are getting wormed!


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## sdmini (Mar 21, 2007)

Where I'm located hunting lodges abound and most use the Ivermec mix. These kennels have 20-40 dogs in various stages of training and on average get $3,000 for a trained dog so if they were seeing issues they would not risk it for $60 a year. I know better than to think that just because someone, even a lot of someones, does it, it doesn't always make it right.

I was told by a vet to try use it, now most vets will not advise you to use it because IF there are complications the vet's butt is on the line as that product is not labeled to be used in that fashion. I was informed when I gave it, heck even gave the same speal several times in the 11 years I worked for the same vet who told me to do it. I tried it once and didn't like the result so didn't use it again.


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## Boinky (Mar 21, 2007)

I'm not niave enough to think that just cuz everyone does it it means it's OK.. I do consult my vets (yep i have multiple vets) before trying things..but i wouldn't knock others for "cutting corners" if it's effective and works. that would be like saying you didn't want to pay $20 for a halter through a tack store..so you go to ebay and get it for $2.00. that's cutting corners.. it might be good it might be bad..but still cutting corners to save money.


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## sdmini (Mar 22, 2007)

I think your misconstruing my point, although I'll admit it's easy to do after I reread my post.

I don't condemn those that use the mix, I just don't advocate it either. I made the point that I know several that do with no issues. My own vet told me to and one of my other vets (does anybody have just one :bgrin ) does also say it can be used, but you will never get him to say that to Joe Blow that comes into the clinic as there is just too much at risk, namely his license and his money.

I don't consider it "cutting corners" as long as it's an informed decision and done with a little research but that can be said about a lot of things from switching to a cheaper feed to changing to a cheaper farrier. Cutting corner to me always says that one went with a cheaper inferior product (or service) to save money.

I'm very much an each to their own type of person so I will not, ok rarely, preach what one should or shouldn't do. I would rather toss out some information and let the reader decide where to take it from there. I never want to be taken as an end all source of information but rather a starting point to look for more information.


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## Girrawheen (Mar 22, 2007)

I just had my new boy "Hugo" at the vet yesterday for various things, and one was for heartworm meds.

The vet first did a blood test for heartworm, and once that came back clear gave him a shot of ProHeart. It is a single dose injection that lasts for a year (although I have just read on their web site that if a puppy is younger than 9 months (which Hugo is), he is only covered for 9 months. After 9 months old, each shot given will last for 12 months (funny how my vet failed to tell me this :no: ).

Anyway I think I paid $55 AUD for the shot, but for me it is peace of mind! It just means that I have one less thing to have to remember each month




: .


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## Vertical Limit (Mar 22, 2007)

I believe ProHeart6 has been taken off the market here a few years ago. Maybe back on market again.....don't know. But too many side effects and too many other products on the market that are safer.


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## Girrawheen (Mar 22, 2007)

> Vertical Limit Posted Today, 01:53 AM_ _
> 
> _
> I believe ProHeart6 has been taken off the market here a few years ago. Maybe back on market again.....don't know. But too many side effects and too many other products on the market that are safer._


_ _

_
Yes I have read about all the problems associated with ProHeart6 and was waiting to hear feedback._

_ _

_
I believe the one Hugo had was actually ProHeart SR12 which is a new treatment. So far I have not found that he has had any sort of reaction, but will watch him closely._

_ _

_ _


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