# Large lump on withers resulted in this



## Ferin (Jun 25, 2007)

About a month ago we noticed a large lump, about the size of a large man's fist, on our mare, Belle's, withers. It was firm with a slightly softer spot in the middle. Our first thought was that she had gotten bit by something and it had swelled up. We checked her for any marks or bumps that would indicate a bite or sting and found nothing. Our vet came out and the lump puzzled him as well. He shaved her and ruled out the lump being caused by a bite or sting. He said that she may have fistulous withers but he was uncertain at that time. He had us put hot water mixed with epsom salt on it as well as Icthmalcane. We were supposed to watch her and let him know if anything changed. A couple weeks ago the lump started getting smaller. It continued slowly decreasing in size until last Friday. We then noticed another lump over top of the now smaller lump. It felt real mushy like a water blister. We continued watching it over the weekend and the skin kept getting thinner every day and was turning a pink tinge. She was also developing a couple more small lumps on the first lump. This morning we went out to find that these lumps had turned red and were oozing red serum. Come to find out the red lump's are some of Belle's tissue coming out. We called our vet and he came back out. He still isnt sure what it is. He has had one case of fistulous withers and it didnt look like this at all. He is sending a sample to the lab to test for Brucellosis. Until then we are supposed to put hot water, epsom salt, and Betadine on the sores. We are also giving her antibiotics.

Have any of you ever seen anything like what Belle has? Any experience with fistuous withers in case that is what it is?

Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers!


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## Mona (Jun 25, 2007)

:new_shocked: OMG, that looks soooo awful, and so painful! I hope your vet can find out what the problem is and get it cleared up for her....poor darling.


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## kaykay (Jun 25, 2007)

im so sorry!!! heres a pic i found looks very similiar. this is fistulous withers






heres the article

The condition may be traumatic or infectious in origin. Agglutination titers support an infectious etiology. Brucella abortus and occasionally B suis can be isolated from the fluid aspirated from the unopened bursa, and outbreaks of brucellosis in cattle ( Brucellosis in Cattle) have followed contact with horses with open bursitis. A Brucella titer should always be evaluated in these cases; if significant, the owners should be made aware of the public health significance.

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Clinical Findings:

Photographs

Fistulous withers

Fistulous withers

The inflammation leads to considerable thickening of the bursa wall. The bursal sacs are distended and may rupture when the sac has little covering support. In more chronic, advanced cases, the ligament and the dorsal vertebral spines are affected, and occasionally these structures necrose.

In the early stage, the supraspinous bursa distends with a clear, straw-colored, viscid exudate. The swelling may be dorsal, unilateral, or bilateral, depending on the arrangement of the bursal sacs between the tissue layers. It is an exudative process from the beginning, but no true suppuration or secondary infection occurs until the bursa ruptures or is opened.

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Treatment and Prevention:

The earlier treatment is instituted, the better the prognosis. The most successful treatment is complete dissection and removal of the infected bursa. The expense of the protracted treatment required in chronic cases often exceeds the value of the animal, and the public health aspects (in cases in which Brucella spp are involved) should be carefully considered. Brucella vaccines have not proved helpful. Sodium iodide therapy is of limited value. It is reasonable to keep horses separate from Brucella -infected cattle, and cattle separate from horses with discharging fistulous withers.

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## Reble (Jun 25, 2007)

So Nasty looking thanks for sharing, thinking of your Mare, and hope she has a speedy recovery.



:


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## ClickMini (Jun 25, 2007)

Oh that poor baby! That looks terrible! Definitely have her in my thoughts and prayers, I have never seen anything like that before! :no:


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## Sue S (Jun 25, 2007)

Oh my goodness, that looks so sore, I hope it goes away soon, I'm praying for her.


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## Marty (Jun 25, 2007)

Ferin, I've seen a couple of fistulas and none really looked exactly like that but it does seem to fit.

Could also be some virus of some sort I guess I have no idea.

I'm just thinking maybe she should be separated if she isn't already.

I feel so bad for you and your mare! Keep in touch and let us know what the vet comes up with.


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## lyn_j (Jun 25, 2007)

there was someone on here not long ago with very similar eruptions.... my guess is also fistula of the withers probably caused by virus since she isnt a horse that wears a collar to pull etc.... separate her because it is contageous oftentimes. Requires lots of antibiotics and usually some surgical debriedment of the wounds.

Lyn


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## ThreeCFarm (Jun 25, 2007)

OMG that looks nasty and so painful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope she heals very quickly!


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## iluvwalkers (Jun 25, 2007)

[SIZE=12pt]yup, i have seen that before...had a filly here that looked like that. the test showed Strep Zoo (that's shortened for some longer name i can't remember right now) she was on several antibiotics before anything worked, what she ended up on was, don't laugh at the spellings, i am trying to read them of a bill and it's a copy



: , Chloraphenral and Metrindexole and she was on them for months, we had to clean it 3 times a day and always wore gloves, to handle the antibiotic and to clean her neck. what a mess it was. the vet i had said he has never seen a case of fistula of the withers in a horse who didn't wear a collar, then we thought brat strangles but like i said the abscesses ended up being from something else. not sure if this helps but i can email you pictures of what the one i had here looked like, i have several stages of her neck. hopefully the results show some simple infection and you can go from there. good luck. Nikki [/SIZE]


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## AppyLover2 (Jun 25, 2007)

My first thought when I saw the pictures was the same as several people have mentioned. It looks horribly painful. Prayers that you and your vet can help your poor girl recover.


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## Gracie (Jun 26, 2007)

Oh that poor sweet horse, Prayers you find what it is and that it heals soon. I agree that it looks sooooo painful.

Best of luck and keep us updated,


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## rabbitsfizz (Jun 26, 2007)

Have you ruled out Warble Fly???

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Warble+Fl...art=10&sa=N


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## slv (Jun 26, 2007)

I too have seen this before and it indeed was a WARBLE. They come out at the withers.


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## rabbitsfizz (Jun 26, 2007)

I just thought because I have seen fistulous withers- and only second hand experience of warble as it is eradicated here- but it doesn't look like f/withers to me- of course it does not have to be typical f/withers to be that but it would be a lot simpler if it were warble!!!


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## SandyWI (Jun 26, 2007)

I have seen many a warble fly, or cattle grub, parasitic infestation in farm animals, and have NEVER seen the results look like that! Usually the grub emerges from the skin and there is a gaping hole left where it was. Those eruptions look much more like some virus in the strangles family.

If those WERE cattle grubs, I think your vet should have recognized them as such right away. Since he didn't, that's a good sign that's not them.

I really do think your horse should be on antibiotics, and that the infection should be treated more aggressively. If it IS a virius in the strangles family, antibiotics won't kill it, but they WILL help prevent secondary infections should those blisters erupt and other filth-carrying insects land on them.

Believe me, those are NOT warble flies or cattle grubs!


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## CharmedMinis (Jun 26, 2007)

I just showed my vet the pictures to get his opinion as he was here. He said he would very much doubt that it's Fistulas.....he's never seen any do that.

His best guess and he would bet on it, would be....... Fungal Granuloma

He said to have your vet run a full histopath, and it will show up on the results if it is a fungal granuloma.

Good Luck!


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## lilfolks (Jun 26, 2007)

I have never seen anything like that so please keep us posted and good luck to you and her.

Joyce


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## chandab (Jun 26, 2007)

SandyWI said:


> I have seen many a warble fly, or cattle grub, parasitic infestation in farm animals, and have NEVER seen the results look like that! Usually the grub emerges from the skin and there is a gaping hole left where it was. Those eruptions look much more like some virus in the strangles family.



Strangles is a bacteria, not a virus. But, it is very virulent and hard to get rid of.


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## justagirl (Jun 26, 2007)

OH MY FERIN !!! That looks so painful .... poor Belle .......guess this means no trail riding anytime soon .

Hope she heals well .


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## zoey829 (Jun 26, 2007)

I hope all is well.


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## SandyWI (Jun 26, 2007)

chandab said:


> SandyWI said:
> 
> 
> > I have seen many a warble fly, or cattle grub, parasitic infestation in farm animals, and have NEVER seen the results look like that! Usually the grub emerges from the skin and there is a gaping hole left where it was. Those eruptions look much more like some virus in the strangles family.
> ...


Well duh! I really do know that! LOL! I haven't made myself clear, so I look like an idiot!




: (Not at all hard for me to do!)

I've seen many horses with strangles, too, but only with erupted lymph nodes on the neck and never on the withers. So, I didn't think it was actually the streptococcus equi bacterial type of strangles, but wondered if there were some type of virus that could also be associated with strangles or mimic strangles-like eruptions.

But I guess a bacterial strain doesn't have a viral counterpart, huh?  

In any event, I think that horse needs to be on antibiotics whether that is a viral or bacterial infection.


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## Soggy Bottom Ranch (Jun 26, 2007)

Ferin,

Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way for your little sick one, I hope all works out. Please keep us updated.


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## MeadowRidge Farm (Jun 26, 2007)

Fern, I have seen fistula of the withers when I was on a call with my vet...it didnt look anything like that. The cattle grubs I have seen have only been in cattle, but once the grub came thru it just left a small hole. Whatever it turns out to be I wish you the best with treatments. Please keep us informed. Corinne


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## MInx (Jun 26, 2007)

Marty said:


> Ferin, I've seen a couple of fistulas and none really looked exactly like that but it does seem to fit.
> 
> Could also be some virus of some sort I guess I have no idea.
> 
> ...


*Marty, Carl and I just want to say hi and we pray your summer is a peaceful one for you. I can PM you another time more in detail..but couldn't resist jumping on here to send warm thoughts your way! *

Maxine and Carl


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## Ferin (Jun 26, 2007)

Thanks so much for all your ideas, experiences, and well wishes! I now have a few possibilities to talk to my vet about.

The results for the one test are back and she tested negative for Brucellosis. I am so thankful for that! We are waiting to get the other test results back. When we do Ill let you all know what we figure out.

Here are some pics from today. It still looks terrible but in person it is actually looking a little better. We are soaking it 2 times a day with water, epsom salt, and betadine. She is on an antibiotic called Uniprim which seems to already be helping. She is acting like her normal self again.

Please continue to pray for Belle!


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## PaintedMeadows (Jun 26, 2007)

Wow. It looks lots better. I hope the treatment continues to work and that you find out what it is real soon. Poor girl. Hugs to you both.


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## iluvwalkers (Jul 10, 2007)

[SIZE=14pt]hi, just wondering how Belle is doing? did the other tests show what the cause was? hopefully she is still healing well



: , Nikki[/SIZE]


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## Just Us N Texas (Jul 10, 2007)

My step father and grandfather had work horses when I was growing up, and I have seen fistulas before. I've also seen warbles, and nothing looked quite like that looks. I can remember when the work horses had the fistulas, it was not allowed to get to that stage. When ready, and I really don't know when that was, it was opened with a knife and let bleed. Seems to me I remember quite a lot of pus along with the blood. The wound would then be treated, and the horse rested till all was healed completely.


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## MBhorses (Jul 10, 2007)

:no: poor girl.

we will be praying for her. keep us posted.The last pictures look alot better.


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## PrestigeMiniHorses (Jul 10, 2007)

Ouchy your poor mare...that looks soo painful. And I too have never seen this before...I hope your vet can get this taken care of. Poor girl...Ill be keeping you guys in my thoughts and prayers..


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## Miniv (Jul 11, 2007)

Not sure how I missed your initial post, but it's been awhile and I'm wondering how things are going for your poor girl!

I've never seen anything like what you showed in your posts and pictures.......This is definitely a learning curve here. I just hope all is going well????

MA


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