# Teaching to give to pressure?



## Small_Stars (Mar 1, 2013)

We have a pony that we've been trying to teach to drive and it's been frustrating. She knows how to lunge well, change directions and move away from pressure, but when you put driving reins on her and try to teach her to turn, she fights it every step of the way even to the point of panic. We've just been using a halter and driving reins on the sides of the halter, no bit yet. So, my question is, when progressing from ground work like lunging and going to actual ground driving, how do you teach them to give to that pressure and come towards it? Are there any good videos or books that somebody would recommend on teaching a mini to drive from the basics all the way up?

Thanks


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Mar 2, 2013)

Okay, I'm going to try not to write a novel here but please bare with me since I am trying to be clear(and probably failing badly)

When I begin long lining a horse it usually is a natural transition from lunging. It is basically lunging with to lines initially if that makes sense, but to make it easier if you are not comfortable handling 2 lengths of line (it is a bit of a challenge to learn not to let the horse get tangled or to trip yourself -I've managed to do both a one time or another lol) you can start with shorter lines (lead lines or standard length riding reins works), stand near the horses shoulder and teach the horse to turn its head when you put pressure on the lead. This flex should happen with out forward/backward motion but don't sweat a step or two in the beginning. Just work to get the horse to bend its neck. When it will flex toward you on one side move to the other side and work on getting the same response there. Once your horse will give its head both ways ask it to flex away from you by using the rein on the opposite side from where you are standing. The next step is to gradually move behind the horse and ask him to flex while you stand behind him. Then, when he does that easily and is relaxed ask him to walk forward and he should follow his nose when you get that bend in his neck. If you happen to have a helper to stay at the horse's head he /she can help to direct the horse (after you have given the rein cue) for a bit if necessary. I have rarely had the help but for some horses it does help them to understand what is wanted more quickly. Also I find it helps to set up some cones (or other obstacles like barrels) so the horse has a reason to turn. It can see what you want rather than just some random wandering like a drunk. lol Hope that helps, I find it remarkably difficult to describe what has become almost second nature to me.


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## paintponylvr (Mar 2, 2013)

Reignmaker - you do a "remarkably"




good job of describing the process.

I have more to add.

I also do another step - it's done with the NH programs I flollow. You go beyond asking them to flex and havbe them turn away from you while following the "flex". To do this, you take the lead line on the opposite side from the handler. you step back aaway from the horse while asking for a flex away from you and use whatever cue you use to encouraage movement (I cluck). The horse flexes, follows his nose as he moves and turns away from the handler, coming alll the way around to face you.

Do from both sides.

Then take it a to next level. Ask for a flex and turn away from you but as horse faces the handler, the handler asks the horse to lounge from that position. Both sides. Depending on what level you are at whith the NH stuff and with whom, you are already doing this...

Then, again ask for a flex and turn, but as the horse starts to lounge the handler just steps back and "drives" for a couple of strides (w/ the one line on the inside), then steps back to the center to continue lounging. After driving a couple steps, handler moves back to center of lounging area and halts horse, praise in whatever manner you do and repeat. No problem if horse is confused - just ask for another flex (requires handler to move around the horse) and turn and "drive". Horse will "get" it - as you continue, believe me. Stop and redo. Both sides. If horse really upset, move back to hip and behind in more gradual steps. Just takes a little longer - but can be accomplished in the same workout.

Since this horse is already confused - maybe practice with a handler w/ two lines (sounds corny, can be hilarious but it does work!) without the horse. Because now you are ready for the horse to work with two lines. You will still do the same as ABOVE, just with two lines. Only when you step back behind to drive, you pick up contact with the line that was on the outside and keep horse going for a step or two in a straight line. Then release, stop, praise, etc. I think you understand?

IF horse is still "spinning" to face you, he may not be ready for this step yet. And you need to back up again.

OR you may want to "cowboy" him - litterally take hold of the lines and re-straighten him out. I DON"T consider this step "cowboying" - but have had some friends say it is. I find about 1/2 of the ponies I start need this step - strongly. They are usually the more reactive ponies and have reacted strongly or spookily to every step of training! They take longer to get to this step, but once they "get it", they usually retain it. When you do this, do it next to the fence, so when you have him swing to the inside to face you, you pull his head back towards the fence and encourage a step or two. It takes practice to figure out how to handle the two lines when you first start and going from slack to tight to slack is part of what causes them to want to "spin" and face you. That's why practicing with a helper (who should follow the "feel" or taking up the slack every time you do so that you see what I mean, that's what's so funny), helps so much, LOL. Again, it takes longer, with more steps for these ponies to allow me to get behind them and stay there for any length of time. I just keep working on it... Usually going back and forth from lounging w/ two lines, to crossing behind them as we switch directions, to lounging with two lines. OR at this stage, you helper if you have one, can hold the horse straight (walk beside) as you start driving. But I don't usually have a helper and I go from the lounging to the driving steps interchangably (back and forth) - so it's more difficult to "use" a helper. That's when "keeping" them on the fence, is what helps. Another step - as you switch from lounging, to moving behind the hip to drive and they try to face you, turn them into the fence and keep them going the new directions for a step of two. You can even go back and forth - where if when you turn into the fence and he wants to continue around and face you - turn him back into the fence and then halt. You stay behind him, and to praise him, step forward and praise him by petting him on the hip rather than going up to his head/face. THEN, step into your lounging position, ask him to start, step towards him to drive him using outside line to keep him on the fence a couple of steps, turn him into the fence and straighten back out and halt again.

Each of these steps is getting him used to you beng behind him.

The next step i use is the one that reignmaker does with the obstacles to give you something to drive around.

Practicing this in an enclosed space is MUCH MUCH easier. At any time, if horse gets too confused or you really get tangled up, DROP the lines (especially the one that's on the outside from where your were working), take a deep breath, praise your horse when you catch him again, and start over... The horse doesn't get away, dropping the line (s) at this stage isn't going to be a problem (if I drop the outside one when the horse is upset, I find it doesn't usually get stepped on).

O - at this stage, I don't have the lines run thru the rings on a surcingle and often I don't even have a surcingle on them yet... That's later - after I have them "driving"... Some folks have told me that it's easier for them if the lines are thru the surcingle, but I find that that makes me want to hang onto the lines more strongly and it's harder to "lounge" them and go back and forth between lounging and "driving"... Later, I will pick a side (bad, bad me - I generally always choose the left) and leave that line out of the surcingle rings when I start with the surcingle. That way, if there is a problem with "driving" - I can turn the "outside"(right) line loose (let it go) and just lounge... When horse calms down (or I do or whatever), I start again. When I'm ready to drive to the right, I take the right line out of the surcingle ring and start with lounging w/ the "outside" (now the left line) in the surcingle ring. You can still turn and switch between lounging and "driving" - but if there is a problem, horse spins to face you or spooks, you turn the line loose that's in the surcingle ring and you are back to what you are both familiar with - lounging...

A good book or video - there are really several - but honestly none that I've found really address the problem you are having. That is a problem I had when I first started too, again, especially w/ my more reactive ponies/horses. And none covers ground driving steps the way Reignmaker and I have both described... It's like most books think every horse is "ez" and gets it automatically, LOL.


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## paintponylvr (Mar 2, 2013)

Even when I first hitch a horse/pony to weight (tire, board etc), I often have a side picked that Iwill lounge from. That line stays out of the surcingle when I start. Then I switch sides and mostly lounge to start, can return to lounging if need to by turning outside line loose (there's a huge story somewhere from 2011 where I was first hooking up to atire with my "hot" shetland mare- WHEE!!!!), I will find it...

I have to run... have mares to check.


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## JMS Miniatures (Mar 2, 2013)

Like the others have said start with some flexing on the ground. I want my horse's nose to touch his girth area so I will be standing near the hip because I want to give plenty of room for the horse to swing his head around. If you stand near the shoulder it would make it a lot more harder to do so for the horse. Your horse sounds very stiff in her body, and you say she can respond away from pressure but does she know how to give in to pressure?

When you try to flex she will most likely fight it and may take a while for her to understand. Stand by her hip and bring your hand up towards her head along the lead rope and pull towards her withers. If she is stiff and doesn't know how to give in to pressure she will fight this just keep hold of the pressure til she is standing still and relaxed and once she brings in her nose just the slightest and release. Horses learn from the release of pressure not the pressure itself. Keep repeating the steps til she will eventually be able to touch her nose to her girth. She will get softer eventually but at first it may feel like it will never happen but I haven't met a horse yet that hasn't been able to do this. Be sure to do this both sides and try to ask her to do this every day. She should get better each time. Once she learns the concept and she still feels heavy try popping the lead to try and get a better response. When she gets better then try and get her to flex on the opposite side your standing on, it just helps even more. You can also do this with the bridle and bit but ask with the halter first. Lateral flexion will help get her body soft and supple and will help teach verticle flexion. Just remember to reward for the slightest try and the reward is the release of pressure.


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 2, 2013)

Instead of teaching her, at this point, to "give to pressure" why not just use some good old basic bribery?

Stand by her shoulder and, using a carrot as it means you are less likely to get bitten at any point, bring her head round your body to her shoulder, Do this two or three times on each side to start with, drawing her round instead of pulling her round. If you can avoid it (and she sounds quite well mannered) do not allow he to take chunks out of the carrot, but have some cut up bits in your pocket and, if possible, reward her with these, but she will naturally think she is allowed to bite the carrot, so it is a matter of juggling this and getting her to understand what you want. This is a far more passive way of achieving the same end, and I find it works well. Do you have a round pen? If not you can make quite a good one out of hotwire tape- good and cheap- make it big enough that you can turn her out in it and energise it, so she is loose in there with it live, then, when you work her, obviously do not have it turned on, but she will still respect it


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## JMS Miniatures (Mar 2, 2013)

That may or may not work. It may work at the end but once pressure is applied with the halter or bit you may get the same results as you once had before. I strongly agree with horses learn from the release of pressure not the pressure itself and instead of rewarding by treats just rub them. Treats are great but only in moderation.


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 2, 2013)

I tend to disagree, pressure applied slowly will get the same results, IME, as applying pressure at the beginning, it's just that, using rewards form the start, you do not get the resistance, that can, if done often enough, lead to soreness, that you (potentially) get by applying pressure.


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## studiowvw (Mar 2, 2013)

Lots of good advice in these posts. Remember, if you have not done it before, it is a learning process for yourself as well as the pony (not ideal, but you can do it if you keep an actively creative mind about it).

On teaching this with the halter, a couple of ideas:

- if you are using a nylon web halter, they can easily learn to push through it as it is not uncomfortable

- if you are using a rope halter, don't hook the lines into the lead loop, because then they can't distinguish where the "pull" is coming from. Hook the lines into the sides so that a "pull" slides up the side and offers a side "pull".

Horses truly, truly, truly, truly function better with a light feel or touch or cue, or "hold". A heavy pull or yank will cause a reaction or brace.

When you first feel for a turn on one rein, are you using your fingertips and waiting for a soft give?

Or are you using your whole arm and applying 2 or 5 or 10 pounds of weight?

Consider this concept:

if you had a baseball bat and you reached out with it and touched the pony on the side of his mouth as SOFTLY as you could, could you gently push his nose over without a fight? Probably.

- if you took the baseball bat and whacked him on the side of his mouth with a 5 or 10 pound WHAP!, what would be his reaction? Probably not a gentle move of his nose





Ok, an extreme example, but try offering a soft feel rather than a whole arm pull. Even if he braces or fights, just keep your soft feel until you get a give, then quit (the release). A few moments later, offer the soft hold again (no pull).

You could do this walking down the road. Wiggle your finger on one side until he follows that little feel and alters his route by a few inches. Then quit. A few moments later ask again, one side or the other.

Or if you are turning, just try to get one step in the right direction at first, then release. You can build on small successes and make more progress slowly.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Mar 2, 2013)

Wow, so many good suggestions here. Lots of stuff I forgot to mention or just haven't tried and of course each trainer does things a bit differently, some times alot differently because in training horses like in many other things there is more than one road that leads to Rome. The point is you must teach your horse first to recognize the cue and to give to the pressure and then build on that.


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## Small_Stars (Mar 2, 2013)

Thank you. She is a fairly reactive pony and I would feel a lot better working under someone that has experience in training to drive, but I can't find a soul near me. I've looked and asked and so I'm feeling my way through. I was starting on flexing and instead of giving to that, she backs up and I have not been able to break her of the backing up and the bracing against it. I thought about maybe doing it in a smaller space with her rump against a fence so she can't keep backing away from it?

Thank you for all the advice. I will work on the flexing more. I don't understand the cowboying it? Not sure what you described or when to use it?


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Mar 3, 2013)

For horses that resist flexing I always start small. Take a hold on the lead with just enough force to keep contact that is firm but not heavy (does that make sense?) and just hold it. Wait quietly with that hold, don't let up, but don't increase it either. Just wait. If she backs up back with her (of course you can try having her butt to a fence, might help and worth trying IMO) but don't increase the pressure at all. In fact if she backs up or otherwise tries to get away from the pressure you are probably using too much force for her so work to keep it light but firm from the start. As soon as you feel her relax toward the pressure release and praise. Work on one side at a time and be ready to give the instant she even thinks about giving to the pressure. She will very quickly begin to realize that comfort (and praise) comes from giving to the pressure and you will be able to build on her successes and soon have her flexing beautifully.

The other thing that I do to loosen up a stiff horse is lunge them in rubber side reins, or more to the point a single rein. I use rubber because it has some give and won't lock her into a position but it can be done with regular side reins too. I attach the rein on the inside and keep it just short enough to encourage the horse to want to relax and bend its neck into the circle. As the horse gets more comfortable with it I will shorten the rein a bit more but don't over do it you are just looking to help the horse learn to give, not trying to crank its head to the inside by force.


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## JMS Miniatures (Mar 3, 2013)

If you have a stall that would work great as well. I would just keep hold of that pressure and just go along with her til she stands still and relaxes and if she brings in her nose just ever so slightly automatically release and rub her. Some horses I've worked with just rewarding them for standing still for 5 seconds is good enough. Just so they learn the concept and build on that. But at the end of the lesson they should be able to bring in their nose to their girth. It may not be perfectly light but thats ok thats something you will work on in future lessons. Ask gently first but don't give in to them resisting but don't increase the pressure either. If they are already reacting increasing the pressure would just make it worse.

You mentioned that she is reactive. Have you tried any disentizing? Like disensitize her to the lead rope, throw the end of the lead rope over her back, hindquarters, forequarters, back legs, front legs? You'll be amazed how many horses would react to this and you may just have to use a small amount of lead rope at first but if she reacts just go with her but try to keep her head tilted towards you, otherwise she would have the leverage to run away. Also you can use a lounge whip, do the same thing with the slash of the whip that you did with the lead rope and also you can smack the ground with the whip to get her dissensitized with noise, do this on both sides and when she is good at that do it in front of her and eventually you can do it around her entire body. Disentizie her between every lesson it will just get her even more quiet.


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## paintponylvr (Mar 3, 2013)

AH - when you said that you already had her flexing, I made the "assumption" that she was already ready for the next step. See what happens?





IMO, untill they will flex smoothly and willingly to each side w/o moving their feet, they aren't ready to go any further. I return to this a lot - even years down the road after they are 'trained' to drive (& in larger horses/ponies - in riding - both before mounted and while being ridden). They forget, they become stiff or there may be some issue as training moves along OR they have been out on pasture and it is a reminder as well as a check to see where they are "at". Someone else filled you in on halter ideas and on treats. If you use the treat technique to start, you will still need to transfer "the reach for the treat" to "respond to the pull". It does work, I've used that method too. When you start with a halter, you will then need to transfer the respond to pull on the nose, to respond to pull on mouth. Same thing...

Kinda wish I hadn't made the comment about "cowboying", now... Some around here don't train - they will often hook a horse to a vehicle in a "deep" field (plowed) and let them run until they are tired... and say they are now "trained" to pull. Sure they are - they know to "run away from whatever's chasing them" until they are tired. Then, when the driver pulls the lines and says "whoa" , it means I get to stop and take a break. What these trainers don't seem to recognize is that all the horse is learning is to fear what's behind him and gets into better & better shape. Some horses stay with that trainer long enought to accept the wagon or cart and become pretty good driving horses. However they haven't been taught the "finer" things that I look for nor a "true whoa" - which I find *the most important gait*. Then when horse goes home, he will rest up since most owners don't know this "training technique" and they aren't able to drive the horse daily and all of a sudden they go out to hook up their "well trained" horse and the horse is totally different then he was a week ago when he came home. He' s fresh and w/ freshness comes tension, fear and "uh-oh"... & in the many cases I've personally seen(I think 7 different mini horses or ponies - several trained by different trainers but in the same manner. It was after these experiences that I sought help myself thru books, videos & this forum as well as other driving forums & also found a trainer whose philosophies were similar to mine in a different "field" - draft horse training), the horse was hooked up in the open, on flat ground and wow, did driving become a rodeo!!

When checking with a couple of different driving trainers, before I knew the "hook & run" technique was followed a lot, locally, I would ask questions and then state that I was having an issue with the turning & facing me. 3 different "trainers" stated I needed to learn to "cowboy up" and actually "learn them hosses" right by keeping them on the fence... What was then described was not any kind of technique that I use or have used nor have I seen my western trainers in the past (good ones) use... and I've had others state that ..."o, you are cowboy-in them"... when I've played with keeping them on the fence. (so that you know - I learned more what not to do from these three particular "trainers" and didn't take any paid lessons nor leave my ponies with them).

NOPE - to me - all I've done is learn to handle the lines (the draft horse trainer despaired for a long time ---" PAULA - YOU CAN"T DRIVE A HORSE WHEN YOU AREN"T DIRECTING HIM..." became a weekly rant! - referring to lines getting too slack and horse weaving back and forth or not staying straight because I had a hard time consistently holding *light contact*. Took lots of practice, and even going thru my pictures in all my albums, I still see a lot of "slack lines" - but you also get to a point where you can and should have light contact without a "taut" line. VERY hard to describe and it's all a learning process.



So that you know, 3 years later, draft horse trainer and I still "joke" about the directing of horses in a set of lines. And when he takes a new driver under his wing and we all get together at the draft horse events, he'll point out that that "newbie" needs to come learn with and from me - as I took forever to learn to "drive right". All in good fun.

Actually, it also gets to a point where your trained or learning horse "knows" what you want and learns to travel from point a to point b w/o solid, taut lines - but not with totally slack lines either, LOL.

NOW - R you totally confused?


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## wildoak (Mar 3, 2013)

I use the "carrot stretch" too on all of my driving horses, it's a good way to keep them flexible even after they are driving well. It's done willingly, they are relaxed and won't go past pain if there is any. Once they grasp the concept I don't find it hard to translate that into asking with the reins. If your horse continues to panic at being flexed you might want to be sure there isn't any soreness in the neck... maybe have a chiropractor take a look. I've had several who just took longer to get it and wanted to spin around - they were mostly immature horses who just needed an especially soft hand, and they did get past it.





Jan


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