# Attacking, biting, rearing - HELP



## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

My ~30" 17 months old mare thinks she's a 17hh stallion. I'm at my wits end and it's embarrassing to know I have a goofy 16.2 hh gelding that I have under control and this little girl thinks she can treat every human being like her personal punching bag. As I posted a while back, she has a bad accident a few months ago. She had to be on stall rest for a couple of weeks during the healing process. That combined with alfalfa and boredom has started her biting, and by biting I mean she waits for the moment you turn your back and she gets this goofy look on her face and charges at you going straight for your calves and bites (not nibbling, biting!). Now add to that the newly formed habit of rearing as soon as you turn around and you have a circus horse in the making. I've been working with her (Clinton Anderson method) since I got her at 10 months. She's a model horse when training, yields, backs up, changes direction, everything, follows me and turns as she should when I move sideways. Takes to new "scary" things really well, I can clip her without a halter on, entire body, no problem. Tarik, blankets, even over her entire head, no big deal. But enter her stall or pasture and she will come straight up and rear up in front of you,there's been times I was caught off guard and she nearly knocked me to the ground. She's anything but kid safe at this point and even a danger to adults, with all 30 inches. This girl is spoiled in the sense that I built her her own pasture within my gelding's pasture, her own access to her stall and she gets the best food and care. I treat her like a "horse", as one should and my gelding was spoiled and a little disrespectful when I first got him, but I got this guy in check, this girl.... Whole different story. If she was a big horse - no way I would keep her.

Of course I even thought of the possibility to "borrow" someone's older mare to throw in the pasture with her to teach her a thing or two about her bullying, but I don't know anyone with a mini that would match her size.

According to online articles there are two reasons for rearing, fear or not wanting to do something/go somewhere. Not in this case, this is attacking and bullying. What to do??


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## chandab (Sep 24, 2012)

I think I'd be inclined to carry a dressage whip with me when I went into her space and use it when she invades my space. A good spank or two on the shoulder (or possibly lower legs, if that's all you can reach) should hopefully bring her back to earth and reality. [the dressage whip would probably work on the calf biting too, as if you are carrying it at your side, it would be an easy motion to lightly pop her with it when she gets to your leg.]

My 3 month old colt bites my calves now and then, and I usually just raise my foot and pop him in the chin, not hard, but hard enough he's gotten the hint that biting is not acceptable.


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## Matt73 (Sep 24, 2012)

Sounds like she knows who's boss . I can guarantee you she'd learn respect at my place within an hour or so. She'd be a very different horse; you're welcome to send her over here lol. Seriously, though, she needs some very firm discipline...and quickly. I would not be using the whip on her lightly at all....she'd definitely feel it.


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## Minimor (Sep 24, 2012)

For sure, carry a whip and when she charges or rears--let her have it. Give her a good crack across the chest, shoulder or side. When she charges and tries to bite your legs, be watching without letting on that you are watching and give her a good smack with the whip then too. She will very quickly rethink her actions and start behaving herself.


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

I keep a small whip by her stall and have a dressage whip nearby. Thing is, if she's aware of me carrying a whip she won't try it as she respects the whip, not scared of it, just respects it as every horse should. But yes, I agree I should always carry a "weapon". When I was 12 my dad gave me a Shetland pony, stallion with all the stuff you don't want, biting, rearing etc. feels like she's the reborn version. Will implement a firmer discipline and let you know how it goes. I have pictures of her doing this, of course everyone else thinks it hilarious that I'm getting my butt whipped by this little devil. But it gets annoying.


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## FurstPlaceMiniatures (Sep 24, 2012)

Agreed with the whip, however, make sure its not overused. My guy is TERRIFIED of the whip when he's acting like a jackass, however, when he's being good, he definitely has zero fear of them! However, sometimes they only learn to behave when you carry a whip. You might need to use your hand. Don't over do that either though. One firm swat is more effective than a million little swats.


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## MindyLee (Sep 24, 2012)

My yrling started that too at one time. I did not show kindness and disaplind her and showed her I was not joking. When she bite, I slapped he mouth, when she kicked, I slapped her hip or sholder. I even kicked her back at times and every time she was disaplined, I yelled NO!!!!

She is now 3.5 yrs old and a very respectful young mare. Much a love bug too. I felt bad but will I not have a mean horse. Theres a differance between disapline and abuse. She may have thought abuse back then, but She learned over a few weeks that bitting and kicking was not acceptable here on my farm. I own 9 minis and not a one of them are bitty, kicky, or hard to catch! All are very respectful and well manured! All love bugs!

Good luck and dont give up! The teribble 2's will end!


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks, that gives me hope that she's not a hopeless case and it is indeed, like I had suspected, "just" the terrible twos. I got tickets for Clinton andersons tour in October, maybes should take her along and show him what a mini can be all about and let him work his magic? LOL

Here are some pics of her "in action"... Funny to others but I'm starting to feel like a circus director...





















PS:the advice of the grazing muzzle and alfalfa instead of grass and hay has finally put a "dent" in her potbelly and combined with the exercise she's slimming down and starting to look more like a miniature horse instead of a fat pony - now if I can get rid of her pony-tude, I'm good!


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

This is her big boyfriend, acts a fool on the lunge line regularly, otherwise a goofy teenage boy... I REALLY feel like a circus director most days...


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## shorthorsemom (Sep 24, 2012)

I got a Clinton rope halter and always carried a whip with a youngster I had..he eventually quit. The crop hung on the post. He got the three second spaz from me everytime he got in my face and space. He stopped and was quite nice after a few months of training. Nevercould feed alfalfa. It makes my solid rock awesome sweet boy into a maniac. Some just cant handle it. She doesn't respect you..you r her toy. If she minds her manners in hand..then handle her as if she is always in training. Kind of like when I teach a dog student how to get their dog to come when called. Then they let the dog off lead and are surprised when it runs off. I then say..then keep the dog on lead and don't give the dog a chance to run off. Don't give her the opportunity to attack and eventually she will quit trying. Good luck and best wishes


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## Genie (Sep 24, 2012)

Cupcake-not...Devilsfood Cake - yes





I agree with the other comments.

In the pictures it seems more like she thinks it's playing or roughhousing, like horses can do with each other, except she thinks she can play with you.

I say that because her ears aren't "pinned" like she's angry? More like she's thinking you might want to play?

I had a friend who allowed the roughhousing and rearing and kicking when the baby was small and it was cute...the baby grew---and it was no longer cute. Took a while for the baby to realize the behaviour was not okay.


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks, I feel you on the alfalfa, I can't feed my gelding more than a small handful (literally) a day, or he acts like a psycho on ecstasy. Only reason I'm feeding it to her is the problem with the potbelly. I would rather feed her hay, cheaper and also way less coarse than the alfalfa. But it may add to the excess energy she has. I can relate to the dog training as I went through professional (not clicker/treat - obedience) with both of my dogs, they're in training 24/7 and get corrected for unwanted behavior regardless of when and how. I can put them in a down stay for 30 minutes in the middle of the garden center with kids and strangers coming by and petting them and me standing 30 feet away and they won't move. If I was able to train a goofy great Dane and an overbred cocker with mental issues I should be able to handle this little devil right??


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## lucky seven (Sep 24, 2012)

Sorry that you are going through the same stuff that I've had with my gelding. Not fun to be mule kicked, bit or reared at when all you are doing is taking care of their needs. If they were being mistreated then that would be a different thing. My boy is 5 and this has been going on for 2 years. I have tried the crop whip and plan on going back to it. I have a 21 yo ott standardbred that is a gentle soul, wish some of it would rub off on the little devil. Good luck.


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

Yep, I don't think it's evil aggression, to her it's fun and games, but "slightly" too rough for my taste!

LOL at the devils food comment! I own a cupcake cake business and she's supposed to be my "cute mascot" but she definitely represents devils food not "Blue velvet cupcake" which is the name I gave her based on her color. Whe. I see her, usually the name "evil cupcake" pops in my mind LOL


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## Knottymare (Sep 24, 2012)

chandab said:


> I think I'd be inclined to carry a dressage whip with me when I went into her space and use it when she invades my space. A good spank or two on the shoulder (or possibly lower legs, if that's all you can reach) should hopefully bring her back to earth and reality. [the dressage whip would probably work on the calf biting too, as if you are carrying it at your side, it would be an easy motion to lightly pop her with it when she gets to your leg.]
> 
> My 3 month old colt bites my calves now and then, and I usually just raise my foot and pop him in the chin, not hard, but hard enough he's gotten the hint that biting is not acceptable.






Yep. Dressage whips have a bit of a bite without being too strong. super flexible. I would drive that mare out of my space with your energy and back it up with a whip if needed to her lower legs. You might also include a clicker... click as soon as she takes the first step back but in this case, no food reward. pause, then drive her back another step. click as soon as she moves. Use a soothing "good girl" as soon as she takes a step back from you. Let her lick and chew.

If she is on her hind feet, you need to drive at her with more energy than she is throwing at you, then as soon as she takes the slightest step back, back off.

Take it in baby steps. Horses are smart. Something is going on with her that is not obvious. maybe the alfalfa is a bit too hot for her? Some horses don't tolerate legumes as well...

Keep at it. You'll be fine.


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## Knottymare (Sep 24, 2012)

Genie said:


> Cupcake-not...Devilsfood Cake - yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I noticed the same thing about the ears...

Charge into her space like a maniac. Lots of energy.

And if you are not deliberately teaching your big boy to rear, that rearing directed AT you is not cute.


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## Marty (Sep 24, 2012)

Put yourself in her place. She's a young healthy growing girl with no friend of her own species who wears a muzzle and is not allowed to graze freely. That is all un-natural for her. I really feel she needs another mare or filly to play with and be allowed to be a horse. I have had my share of pot belly babies too but I would not put a muzzle on them. Instead I manage them in the dry lot with grass hay for a while and manage the pasture time better when they get too fat and that takes care of it. She should not have stored up energy if she's on daily turn out. As far as the biting and rearing, I think its just horse play because she has no other horse to interact with. When she gets too aggressive, I'd tie her in her stall an also in the pasture for a few minutues a day,(not ever leaving her unattended)and work around her, and with her such as groom her etc. and claim the space as your's, not her's. Good luck with her. She is a cutie.


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## disneyhorse (Sep 24, 2012)

Horses only do or get away with what the human allows tfem to... And if they do it all the time then the human has trained them that way. Very few horses are naturally aggressive, they are made that way.

If carrying a whip gives you the confidence to be a strong leader, then carry one. Whatever helps you keep a strong state of mind is needed. Lots of good advice here.

ANY sort of biting, rearing, kicking, charging, or attitude (playful or otherwise) is NEVER permitted around me. I've got a playful modern Shetland with tons of energy, but he's got to be a gentleman when I go into his stall or come into his space.


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## HGFarm (Sep 24, 2012)

If she did this to her mother or another horse, she would receive a swift hard kick or two to put her in her place. I totally agree with a couple of hard swats- and I mean hard- to put her in her place in the 'herd'. She is getting away with it. I guarantee if you rain on her parade once or twice, it will stop immediately. If they are allowed to act like they are in a circus with no punishment or correction, they will continue to do so.


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

She got away with it quite a few times when she did it in the pasture and I didn't have a whip handy and she ran away too fast. Took your advice, went inner stall today to let her outside and had the dressage whip with me, once she was in her pasture, I walked up to her (which is all intakes recently to have her rear), she started to rear and I immediately gave her 2 good swats before she was even in full rear mode. She looked entirely confused and ran off. I made her run and change direction, whoa'ed her and she immediately turned to me and backed up on her own, made her yield and back up some more, lots of praise and she was as sweet and respectful as she could be. So new course of action,not letting anyone near her without the whip and instructions.





As far as the muzzle: this girl eats ANYTHING. And by anything I mean the worst weed, prettiest flowers and even cactus and agave (spikey!) before she will even tofu any grass. So not only is she wearing it for the potbelly, but also to protect her from ingesting something harmful or poisoning herself. She gets 1-2 hours turnout, gets to go back in the stable to eat and rest and then back out. I'm home almost every day all day so I can manage this pretty well. She has figured out how to nibble a bit of grass here and there through the muzzle, keeps her content and busy without getting fat.

Playmate: I had my gelding since July of last year and he desperately needed some company other than the neighbors horses across the street. My choice was to either be able and afford a big (husband size) horse that's suitable for a very beginner (husband, son) and low maintenance (as mine is high maintenance and cold back already and there are only 24 hours in a day), or a mini. Of course in an ideal world I would have 2 minis and two big horses. But hay is ever so expensive here in Texas, at $22 a bale that he goes through in a week, $22 for alfalfa, which she kills in 10 days and $17 a week for feed, I have made the choice to get a mini, plus ever since visiting Tonys Little Americas ranch twice, I fell in love and knew one day I would have one. I rather have 2 horses I can afford and provide with the best care than own 4 and can't afford them or give them the time they need. I can't remember the last time I went to a mall or bought myself clothes other than for riding LOL, but I did built lots and lots of fence,a stall, a riding arena and shop at TSC and the feed store weekly. I understand a lot of you are breeders and you make a living with your horses, mine just cost money.


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## muffntuf (Sep 24, 2012)

Sounds like you need to be the alpha.


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes, autocorrect fail


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## HGFarm (Sep 24, 2012)

LOL, I bet a couple more times of that, she will quit it. Does she have any toys in her stall? A ball or something she can play with- even something out in pasture while she is out there so she is not bored? That helps too


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

Yep,she has a ball in her stall and plenty to do in the pasture, her boyfriend doesn't leave her side when she's in or out. They got body contact and give frequent "kisses", he adores her. But her no. 1 toy is still any human that comes near her LOL. oh and tying her up - I'm still looking for ways to do that without her putting her legs in a knot or strangling herself... I think I may have to set a pole in the middle of the pasture similar to Clinton Anderson's "patience pole" to keep her from attempting to kill herself (WITH supervision...)


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

See what I mean?











This is one of the "activities" I offer: she gets to spread the bedding at least once a week






The two love bugs


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## lucky seven (Sep 24, 2012)

They are cute together, just like mine. My standardbred thinks the world of his little friend. Believe me, she knew you were around and that's why she got herself all tangled up. "MOM" will feel sorry for me and let me go. My boy did the same thing yesterday. Head tangled in lead line, foot almost over the fence. They know how to get us to dance to their tune. lol


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## madmax (Sep 24, 2012)

If this were my horse I would give her a playmate her size right away, look for a gelding mini, and cut back that alfalfa to a grass hay. Her attitude is more important than her belly at this time.

BTW, I have 26 years experience with minis, she is most likely not mean, but needs to understand that you are the alpha mare and not her playmate, I also would give her the outraged mare scream when she attacks and use a dressage whip on her chest.

Good luck on curing this, I know you are trying and giving her training in hand.


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

Anyone in texas like to donate a playmate? ( and some hay to go along with that?)


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## MountainWoman (Sep 24, 2012)

I think the others are giving you great advice about your biting and rearing problems but looking towards the future I'd also like to add you have a very intelligent, curious horse who is the ideal candidate for clicker training to keep her mind occupied. I think the best clicker horses are those who tend to get into what we call trouble. They really seem to thrive under clicker training and the sky is the limit.


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## Marty (Sep 24, 2012)

OK I just have to ask.....what are the chances of her being pregnant? Have you seen her come in heat? She is really adorable.


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## 2minis4us (Sep 24, 2012)

I didn't read all the replies but get her off the alfalfa.


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## muffntuf (Sep 24, 2012)

Alfalfa is not the issue IMHO. But she may have way more energy to burn since she is getting quality feed...


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

I got tons of suggestions here when I asked about the potbelly issue and most said to put her on alfalfa. I had her on good quality coastal before, she gets fed through a nibblenet which slows down her intake and ensures that she gets the same amount everyday.

If she would have gotten pregnant it would have had to happen before she was 10 months old, she was with a herd of minis but I don't know if any stallions or colts were with her. When I got her she hadn't been wormed in at least 6 months, or seen a vet, was underweight with a skinny neck, you could feel her spine and ribs but she had a potbelly, that and the wintercoat made her look fat.

With a mare showing this kind of daily attitude how do you know when she's in heat?

I would love to just put her on coastal, I don't like having to deal with different types of hay and the price for alfalfa will go back up for the winter I'm sure.

Here are some pictures of her belly wise

Top left at 10 months when I got her, top right at 11 months, bottom two at 13 months. I need to take some updated belly pics






My avatar is from when she was 14/15months, taken about a months after her accident.


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

I think trick training is great to keep them busy. I don't believe in clicker/positive reinforcement when it comes to training dogs or horses, I think a good balance between correction and lots of praise does a much better job, BUT I do think treats work great for trick training. My gelding pics up the whip on command or jolly balls etc. I think she's a smart cookie, eh, cupcake that would do well, once she knows how to behave





I also plan on eventually getting a cart for her once she's old enough, a friend of mine owns a carriage company and offered her help





Also, all of your responses have caused an AHA moment for me today, I've allowed my gelding too long to save up all his energy and then let it out on the lunge line. He's had a few days break and of course just walked around in the pasture like an old 20something year old horse but wanted to play racehorse and bronco again when I put him on the lunge. So something CA always says popped in my mind "make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy". I never knew how to implement this when he goes nuts like this because he turns blind and deaf to any command,no matter if I make him work harder, try to slow him down, stop him, change direction (he rears then)... Nothing ever worked so I always just let him run it out on his own. Today I had enough. I started wiggling the lunge line as soon as he started racing and bucking. Kept wiggling it (like the backing up method) so the buckle in combination with he stiff rope halter made all his racing "uncomfortable" and he slowed down. As soon as he was in a normal canter I stopped wiggling. Did that a few times and it worked like a charm





New rules in this barn!

Signed

The ALpha mare


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## madmax (Sep 24, 2012)

Just wanted to add that you have a little girl with tons of personality and very cute, don't want to supress that, but to contain her 'over expression' of what is fun to her. I have a gelding I would send to you, but I am in Florida and don't think the distance would work out!

This gelding gave me a few troubles as a yearling ( he is now sweet as pie) but he went for the hands not the legs

as your horse is doing.I carried a pine cone in my hand when leading him, and let him 'hurt himself trick' without me having to hit him but curing the strike scenario you are having is a challenge using that method.

Is she one that does not like being stalled for any length of time and prefers more space?

+


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

She always seems content and happy in her stall. She has a 12x12 to herself. She's an attention hog, my gelding fell in love with her from the minute she got her, he literally didn't move away from her stall for 24 hours straight. He LOVES his food, attempted to go eat a couple of times, she called im back and he immediately galloped back to her. He's a little easier going about her now but if I take her out of the pasture I have to stay in his sight or all heck will break lose. if he was her size they'd be a perfect couple but with him being a 7yr old teenager I'm afraid it wouldn't end well if I'd pasture them together.

I sat in her stall with her earlier, she came over, I reached out and she started licking my hand, then biting, I think great timing is key, I smacked her in the chest with the whip as soon as she bit and she backed up and had that confused look on her face again, she tried it again,everytime she just licked I praised her a lot. She finally got the hint that biting is not ok and definitely showed more respect for me. We'll see how the next few days gland of I can cure this little monster


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## wingnut (Sep 24, 2012)

You've gotten tons of great advice and it seems like you've already started the steps necessary to get her going in the right direction. I remember those before pictures and am thrilled by the after pictures. She's a lovely young lady!! Keep at it!


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

Thank you so much


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## HGFarm (Sep 24, 2012)

Young horses SHOULD be active and full of beans, and I have fed alfalfa for 40 years with no problems. Minis require more protein, especially when still growing and I dont think that is the issue at all. It's her behavior and what she has been allowed to do. You have already seen improvement in just one correction and her reaction to that. Dont cut her nutritional program just because she hasn't learned her manners yet.


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## Knottymare (Sep 24, 2012)

Cupcake said:


> New rules in this barn!
> 
> Signed
> 
> The ALpha mare


This made me giggle...


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## Knottymare (Sep 24, 2012)

HGFarm said:


> Young horses SHOULD be active and full of beans, and I have fed alfalfa for 40 years with no problems. Minis require more protein, especially when still growing and I dont think that is the issue at all. It's her behavior and what she has been allowed to do. You have already seen improvement in just one correction and her reaction to that. Dont cut her nutritional program just because she hasn't learned her manners yet.


Amen to this.


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## Matt73 (Sep 24, 2012)

Ditto. I wouldn't even let a horse like that lick me, though; licking is usually a precursor to nibbling/biting.


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## vickie gee (Sep 24, 2012)

You might want to have her hormone levels tested. Does anyone else think testosterone could be a factor with all this rowdiness?


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## shalakominiatureshowhorses (Sep 24, 2012)

i agree. TAKE A WHIP. My little Devil did this when i fed him. Rear, kick, strike, bite, the whole 9 yards. Does she do this when your feeding her? If so carry a whip in. If she turns her butt towards you, either push her foward with your body or tap her with it (may not be the safest way, but it worked for me.) If she rears tap anything you can get lol, chest or legs. If she bites, (i know theres a lot of contreversy with this) "slap" of tap her mouth. It'll teach her to keep her mouth shut around you. Then, a really cool trick to feeding is dont pour the grain in the bucket untill she faces you and taps the bottom of the bowl with her nose. IT may be stupid but it helped so much!


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## Matt73 (Sep 24, 2012)

And...if she (or any horse) rears in front of you a whip or kick to the stomach takes care of that very quickly; you have to make those bad behaviours a very unpleasant thing...


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## Cupcake (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks for all the good advice. I've learned not to allow dogs to disrespect me but I guess I was being way too nice when it came to my horses and discipline. I portray leadership when it comes to dogs to the point that I notice dogs in pet stores look at me and give me that sense of respect or loose dogs in my neighborhood... They wouldn't dare to come close to me when I'm walking my two.

Speaking of dogs, the day was great until this afternoon, my great dane got bit in the leg by a copperhead






Ran him to the vet, now he's spending the night at the animal ER with antibiotics etc and IV. Please keep him in your thoughts, he's the best dog in the world


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## shorthorsemom (Sep 24, 2012)

Have you checked her teeth? Just a thought. My boy was about the same age when idiscovered his teeth were sharp as heck.. I always wondered if it was partial cause of his rearing.


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## Matt73 (Sep 24, 2012)

I haven't heard of a horse rearing due to tooth issues...unless they have a bit in their mouth/being ridden. I don't think that's the problem at all...


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## shorthorsemom (Sep 25, 2012)

I have heard this from an equine dentist.


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## tanya&tinka (Sep 25, 2012)

I have no advice ( I'm new and love to learn a lot on here) but read through the posts and its all sounds like great advice to take. Just wanted to say you little mini is gorgeous and looks just like one of my girls I just got. And I hope you doggy recovers quickly. He is in my thoughts.


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## Minimor (Sep 25, 2012)

Even if she doesn't misbehave when you have a whip in hand, carry it with you every time you go in her stall or in any situation where she might show this aggression. She might forget herself and try something even when you have the whip, and then you are ready for her.

If you go in the stall without a whip, watch her carefully; when she dives in for a bite at your legs, raise your foot so that her teeth connect with the heel of your shoe. Same thing if she were going to take a bite at your hand or arm--make sure that she rams her teeth into your elbow (or because she is so small, perhaps your fist)--you don't actually hit her, just let her connect with something that hurts when she tries to bite it.

With foals--and at 30" this filly may be small enough to do this too--if one rears up at me I simply grab the front legs high up on the forearm & hold the horse up on its hind legs for awhile. They generally don't like this--that wasn't their intention when they reared up at me, they meant to push me around, not have me take control and make them stay up in the air--and after a time or two of that they are much less inclined to rear up at me.


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## Cupcake (Sep 25, 2012)

Thank you, my dog seems to be over the hill, being young, extra large and healthy helped. Only worry now is damage to his kidneys, but he's still at the vet on fluids for the rest of today.

She doesn't misbehave during feeding time, just impatient, she knows she has to wait for me to bring her in, lock the back door of her stall and remove the grazing muzzle. I will make sure she gets training everyday (and even during non-training will implement corrections as needed). After turning her from mountain goat to pretty girl I'm eager to turn her from devils food to sweet cupcake





Will keep you posted!

Feeding question - how much alfalfa in weight should a horse be getting when not on grass at all? I fill her bag once ever 24 hrs and it lasts her just that long. But the amount seems like more than 2 % of her body weight. Speaking of which, I only have a "big" horse measuring weight tape here, can I use it to determine her current weight? I need her weight for the vet who will be coming out and I'm sure she gained quite a bit since I got her in february when she was only 27" and 90 lbs.


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## lucky seven (Sep 25, 2012)

Glad to hear your dog is doing better,


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## HGFarm (Sep 25, 2012)

I have fed alfalfa for 40 years, but would never free feed it. Mine get fed twice a day- that is plenty. Recommended daily intake is 1.5 to 2.5% of a horses body weight. This is if they are not getting any pasture. You may have to adjust based on the horses metabolism- some are easier keepers than others and depends on the activity of the horse. You would feed a hard working ranch horse much more than an idle one that is used lightly on weekends.


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## chandab (Sep 25, 2012)

Cupcake said:


> Feeding question - how much alfalfa in weight should a horse be getting when not on grass at all? I fill her bag once ever 24 hrs and it lasts her just that long. But the amount seems like more than 2 % of her body weight. Speaking of which, I only have a "big" horse measuring weight tape here, can I use it to determine her current weight? I need her weight for the vet who will be coming out and I'm sure she gained quite a bit since I got her in february when she was only 27" and 90 lbs.


Weight tapes aren't that great for full-size horses and even worse for minis. A slightly better option is to use the formula found in the LB Info pages: http://www.lilbeginnings.com/info/misc/ Its about halfway down the page, under the weight chart (which I didn't find all that accurate for my minis); the formula is decent, but nothing beats actually weighing on a scale.


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## Cupcake (Sep 25, 2012)

Growing up my family always bred horses, and even a few years ago when I was riding at a ranch in Europe, the horses were fed twice a day with grain and hay. Turnout overnight in the summer. Moving here all I saw was free feeding and lots of people believing that that would help prevent colic (not going without food for longer periods) if I limit the alfalfa and only feed her in the AM and PM I'm sure it would help reducing the belly some more but it would probably increase her attitude





She did GREAT today! she thought about biting/rearing for a second, then reconsidered and backed up in front of me - on her own! Woohoo!


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## tagalong (Sep 25, 2012)

Alfalfa is like crack to some horses - they get "hot" from it and cannot handle it. I have seen maybe 5 horses affected like that in the past 20 years - yes, it can happen. IMO I would not feed her alfalfa.

The grazing muzzle may be irritating her as well - is there really so much for her to eat that may be bad that she cannot handle it?

When she charges at you in a disrespectful way - BE BIGGER - LOUDER - FASTER!!! Run AT her when she charges... she should NEVER be allwed ro charge into your space.

I would discourage the licking. It may be "cute" but is really just setting her up for nibbling in the future.

I would also change where you tie her - use a more solid wall or fence and tie her at her eye level. We never tie in rope halters - especially babies . If they get startled and set back and pull - more damage may result.

I agree about the rearing on the lunge line - unless you cued for it (and unless you have a horse in the movies, I think that is a bad idea) it is completely UNACCEPTABLE on the lunge line...

Just a few thoughts, anyway. 





ETA: What is her bite like?


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## Cupcake (Sep 25, 2012)

Like I mentioned, my gelding can't have alfalfa because he gets hot. Her reaction today showed me though that she may have just needed a firmer correction and that she could be fine over time. I have witnessed her nibble on things that were unedible - to her anything green can and should be eaten. Including kids in green clothing (she followed a kid in a green shirt and pants all day one time..) Plus I have 20 young trees in her pasture that would be empty in a day if I let her at it, though they are horse safe, they have a purpose other than horse feed.

Funny that you mentioned the movies, we actually did film a tv show here and my gelding was in it, though not for rearing 

If I have to choose between him acting a fool on the lunge line or under saddle, I prefer him letting out without me on top. But I agree and as I mentioned, I'm working on it





Although when he jumps in the air with all 4 feet at the same time, I have contemplated calling the Lippizaner show to see if they needed a flashy paint 

She has a little overbite but I will have the vet check her teeth when he comes out this week.


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## Cupcake (Sep 27, 2012)

I measured her girth and she's 94 cm which is 37". That would put her weight at 161lbs. Could that be right? In February at 10 months, 27" she weighed 90 lbs (scale at the vet). She was underweight but Could she have gained 70 pounds from february until now? She's now 17 months, not sure how tall, but no more than 30". My great Dane is 31" and he's still taller.


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## chandab (Sep 27, 2012)

Cupcake said:


> I measured her girth and she's 94 cm which is 37". That would put her weight at 161lbs. Could that be right? In February at 10 months, 27" she weighed 90 lbs (scale at the vet). She was underweight but Could she have gained 70 pounds from february until now? She's now 17 months, not sure how tall, but no more than 30". My great Dane is 31" and he's still taller.


I really don't know, it could be right. If you only used the chart, try the formula under it as well, I think the chart might be more accurate for mature animals, rather than growing animals.

Since she was malnourished when you got her, getting on a healthy diet and putting on healthy weight (muscle, bone, etc), very well could have caused that much of a weight gain. She is almost 18 months old now, so starting to mature.


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## BSharpRanch (Sep 29, 2012)

I agree with the "mare squeel". I use it often. Timing is key. My squeel works like a horse. Squeel, swing hip, stomp foot nearest horse. The key is to be LOUD both with the squeel and the stomp the first few times. And if that isn't enough, a well timed smack with the handle of the whip. It won't be long and a quiet eek and a shift of weight will be all it will take to get her attention.

She is at the age of testing her boundries and she needs to be told in no uncertain terms that YOU ARE the head mare of the herd.

JMTCW


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## Cupcake (Sep 29, 2012)

I have seen a MAJOR difference in her this week! No clue why it took me this long to take over and out myself in charge, even with my gelding, I didn't realize how much I let him get away with and sending the wrong message, the laziness on the lunge line, then the flipping out, bucking rearing and racing. Nibbling on hay when tied, slow and lazy change of directions during groundwork. Now? Perfect behavior, moves quick when asked to, stays out of my "bubble", energetic walk and trot. And she's as sweet as she could be, not even impatient during feeding time, comes in and just stands there and patiently waits for her feed. Loving it!


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## Matt73 (Sep 29, 2012)

Yay!


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## Matt73 (Sep 29, 2012)

Just an FYI, I feed a hay that is probably 60% alfalfa/40% timothy/grass and its 3rd cut. Love it and so do my beasts; I introduced them to it slowly, though. They are now on Alfa Gro 'n Win (a lower % ration balancer). I have always fed them 4 times/day (morning, noon, 4pm, and around 9 or 10). They are on a dry lot and stalled at night. The more often you can feed, the better (but I know many can't, for various reasons. One of the first things they teach you about feeding in Pony Club is "feed little and often"


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## Cupcake (Sep 29, 2012)

I fill her bag when I feed them at night, around 7pm, she eats about half of it throughout the night (still need to weigh it), my scale needs new batteries. Then she gets her feed around 7:30 am and eats more alfalfa, I give her about an hour rest after since she likes to nap after eating. Then I turn her out, this week I've increased that to about 4 hrs, she nibbles on grass through the muzzle and naps and plays out there. I bring her back in so she can have more alfalfa and turn her out again for a couple of hours before dinner. Since I increased her turnout time she's been eating about 1/4 less of her alfalfa so I'm eager to see if that'll do some to lessen the belly some more. It doesn't look "ready to pop" anymore like it still did a month ago. But still there. Today I may have to take the bag out for a few hours as its raining and her pasture is a swamp. I do believe that providing horses with something to nibble on 24/7 is the healthiest approach due to colic. But I know she would chop herself to death if I let her so I'm trying to find a happy medium.


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## shalakominiatureshowhorses (Nov 25, 2012)

Yep, a mare squeel works for me to. Then they look at me like, "What? Your not a horse!" LOL!


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## Margo_C-T (Nov 25, 2012)

From the pics, you have done a fine job of bringing her into MUCH better health/condition...congratulations!

Sounds like you are on track with proper discipline; I agree w/ most of the advice given about quick, sharp correction, and not allowing behavior that may seem 'cute' or 'ok', but may lead to MIS-behavior(agree not to encourage or even allow, licking).

You mentioned her 'going through' a bale of alfalfa in 10 days? If your bales are anywhere NEAR the size that most alfalfa is baled around here, that sounds like way too much for a 30" mare! I am an advocate of alfalfa, have fed it for MANY years, but found it should almost never be the 'only' hay, nor should it be free-fed. The slow feed hay bags/nets are a GREAT idea, but are made to work best w/ grass hays; just due to the 'nature' of alfalfa, they are not going to limit access as well as you need. I would recommend feeding BOTH a decent grass hay AND some alfalfa. Put the grass hay into the slow feed bag; smaller portions of alfalfa could be fed in an ordinary feeder. I like about a 30% alfalfa, 70% grass proportion, but that can be adjusted either way; in the case of a youngster such as your mare, you could use a little higher proportion of alfalfa. Horses really NEED that 'continuous 'grazing' experience; both physically and psychologically; though I don't much care for the idea of grazing muzzles, if she needs it for the reasons you've cited, keep using it as you are...but then, keep a slow feed bag of grass hay available at all, or nearly all, times. With continuing good nutrition, maturation, proper exercise, and an ongoing correct deworming program, any 'pot belly' should really take care of itself over time, IMO.

It is true that young stock needs a higher protein level than older horses; you might consider a quality Jr. concentrate. I am currently using and REALLY like, a FORAGE-based, fortified w/ vit/min/required nutrients,steam-processed, light 'kibble' feed called 'Total Equine'; I believe it is available around the country. I really prefer a similar feed called 'Thrive', but it is hard to obtain outside of TX and a few places in KS and CO. If it ever goes to wider distribution, I will go back to it!! You can google either to read more about them. I also regularly feed a stabilized ground flax, and see results in hair coat and hooves.

Your filly seems to be the 'I-need-to-always-be-doing-something' type; lots of turnout time, exercise, all the 'toys' you can think of that she can safely play with(I have had good results just tying a length of stout hard-lay cotton rope to the fence/overhead, w/ knotted ends, as something to 'mess with')--all to give her something to DO with all that energy...should be useful.

Not sure why it would be thought that horses 'only' rear for two reasons? Yes, fear AND resistance are likely two reasons, but certainly not the only ones...and let's face it, we can't REALLY 'read the minds' of horses, so who can know what ALL the reasons could be?! I do agree, allowing one to rear on the longe line, or ANYTIME it isn't a carefully-taught 'trick' under suitable circumstances, is a bad idea!

Best of luck with your horses(GORGEOUS markings on the paint horse, BTW!)

Margo


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## wildoak (Nov 25, 2012)

Just read through all this, and it sounds like you are making great progress with your filly.



Where in Texas are you paying $22 a bale for hay, or is that for alfalfa? I'm paying $17 for a 2 string bale of alfalfa, and more like $6 for coastal hay. I agree with pretty much everything Margo said.. I have fed alfalfa for many years, but only in a mix with grass hay except for a couple of horses who are colic surgery survivors and are on straight alfalfa per the vet.

I have a big 16 hand mare who likes to be obnoxious on the longe line too - had to go to longeing her in a snaffle with the ring/strap attachment below it like a curb strap so it doesn't pull through her mouth. She's quite a lady with this lol.

Jan


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 25, 2012)

Not at all keen on muzzles of any sort, although I can see a use for them in an emergency- if she is that bad surely she will also eat the trees and the weeds through the muzzle?


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## Cupcake (Nov 25, 2012)

Margo_C-T said:


> From the pics, you have done a fine job of bringing her into MUCH better health/condition...congratulations!
> 
> Sounds like you are on track with proper discipline; I agree w/ most of the advice given about quick, sharp correction, and not allowing behavior that may seem 'cute' or 'ok', but may lead to MIS-behavior(agree not to encourage or even allow, licking).
> 
> ...


I feed both of my horses total equine! You're the fist one on this board that seems to ever have heard of it! I believe that it was the main reason I got her back in shape from being underweight. I have been able to put some dents in her belly with total equine and alfalfa only but I like the idea of mixing the hays and will slowly switch her to that.

I agree with the toys, need more ideas on that! She loves playing with the waterhose, it's one that doesn't get tangled and I have it hanging over her fence and running through the pasture and she plays with it all the time, purposely tangling herself up in it, stepping I'm it then dragging it along the fence (nothing dangerous) and when I try to water the trees she drinks straight out of the hose and gets more water than the trees LOL

She's very curious, playful and smart. I think she will do great once she's old enough to really ever worked. She already does the leg yielding, backing up, change direction and whoa perfectly. She also knows to face me and not turn her butt. So we're on the way to become a well behaved little girl


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## Cupcake (Nov 25, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Not at all keen on muzzles of any sort, although I can see a use for them in an emergency- if she is that bad surely she will also eat the trees and the weeds through the muzzle?


The muzzle she has is the "tough 1" with Velcro straps. Of course she had to try out how they work, not once but twice (!) by clipping her muzzle (and therefore tying herself) to the wire fence (!) and the Velcro came off which provided her with a good lunch! So now I turn the clip so it faces her cheek - it stays put, bit even if she was to get caught somewhere the Velcro would open. I have horse safe trees in her pasture, so no harm if she does eat a leaf or two but if I would let her lose in there without a muzzle the trees would be bare for sure! I will post some pics of her pasture soon.


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## Cupcake (Nov 25, 2012)

wildoak said:


> Just read through all this, and it sounds like you are making great progress with your filly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually pay $23 for 3 string bales right now, only going up from here, price is the same for alfalfa and coastal, both being brought in from California. I have my big gelding on ulcer meds and a break right now. His behavior in the past 2-3 months has gotten to the point where I suspect an ulcer. Lots of different clues and my only way to find out was to put him on meds and see how and if he changes. Vet would not have been able to see hindgut ulcers so we'll see.


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## Lil Timber Buck (Nov 26, 2012)

I agree about the alfalfa. It made my sweet little boy into a complete dimwit who thought he wrote the book of life. He was out of control! The whip is a good idea. Any contact within the first three seconds is good to let her know but after that you're too late and she won't associate it.Good Luck.


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## mizbeth (Nov 27, 2012)

Hmmm, not good at all. She needs to know you are the boss and the sooner the better. Good luck with her, but I would be terribly firm. I had one do that too for a while, but she outgrew it. She would rear and go for my arm, that stinker. I yelled NO to her and pushed her back - pushing from the chest. It hurt sometimes when she did that.


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## Cupcake (Dec 9, 2012)

Update - i have been weaning her off the alfalfa, not eliminating it, but she now gets a nibblenet of coastal and 2 handful of alfalfa 3 times a day in her feeder. She's lost weight - on the belly! And she's also calmed down, less explosive, still very playful but not like she has the energy of a racehorse and letting it out on her humans. I believe alfalfa may be helping to get rid of a belly but not when you have a horse that stuffs her face with it like there's no tomorrow LoL, she eats much less of the coastal so I think she was overheating on the alfalfa the entire time.


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## wildoak (Dec 10, 2012)

Did Total Equine used to be Aussie Logic? I have some friends who have fed it for several years and are really happy with it for minis and big horses. I was never overwhelmed with it - fed it for a year or better and it was fine for maintenance but I didn't feel it gave my young horses what they needed. Also got very expensive for a 40 lb bag. Think it is a good, very safe feed though.

Jan


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## hobbyhorse23 (Dec 10, 2012)

Cupcake said:


> Thanks, I feel you on the alfalfa, I can't feed my gelding more than a small handful (literally) a day, or he acts like a psycho on ecstasy. Only reason I'm feeding it to her is the problem with the potbelly. I would rather feed her hay, cheaper and also way less coarse than the alfalfa. But it may add to the excess energy she has.


There are better ways than rich, coarse, high-energy alfalfa to address that belly. The belly is mainly a result of not enough protein and quality feed usually, and it's one reason why many mini people including myself go to the extra work of feeding beet pulp. The combination of a good quantity of soaked beet pulp, a basic low-starch, low-sugar complete feed to keep their topline in good shape and plenty of good-quality grass hay will usually take care of the problem all by itself. That and a lot of free exercise, of course! Does she have a large ball or other toys?

Leia

Edited to add-

Now that I've read the other five pages of replies, it seems like you're doing everything right for her and her new feed program should be great. I'd still try a little beet pulp but keep up the Coastal/alfalfa mix! My two boys together only go through about a bale a month of Eastern Washington Timothy hay so I agree with Margo that a bale of alfalfa in 10 days was likely enough to make her explosive.



Cupcake said:


> I think trick training is great to keep them busy.* I don't believe in clicker/positive reinforcement when it comes to training dogs or horses*, I think a good balance between correction and lots of praise does a much better job, BUT I do think treats work great for trick training.


Praise IS positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is simply the removal of something unpleasant (like pressure or an aggravating noise) when the animal does what you want, while positive reinforcement is the addition of something they find pleasant to reward the desired behavior. That can be praise, food, scratches, whatever the animal likes. Clicker training uses a noise (a "click") to mark the moment of desired behavior more clearly but you don't have to use food as the reward after the click. You can praise and scratch instead if the animal will work for that. I agree that a balance of correction and praise is the fastest way to train so perhaps you meant that you don't believe in using _strictly _positive reinforcement?

Leia


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## Margo_C-T (Dec 10, 2012)

Regarding Jan's question about Total Equine--I'd about bet that is is 'THRIVE' that 'used to be Aussie Logic'! THRIVE is what I discovered before 'TOTAL EQUINE', via info from a Texas woman who was posting on the mini driving group list. My daughter was visiting in TX just at the time, and was able to pick up a couple of bags and bring them to me. The 'originator' of THRIVE is an Australian,name of Dale Moulton, who apparently now lives in TX? I REALLY liked THRIVE, but then, I no longer have ANY young stock. It's primary ingredient is alfalfa, second was timothy...so TWO FORAGE plants as the major ingredients. It was around $18.50/40 lb. bag, and recommended feeding level at 4 lb/1000 lb. horse/day, so yes, more expensive than other 'concentrates', probably. Trouble is, it is sold almost NOWHERE outside of TX...hence why I changed to TOTAL EQUINE(which is ONLY available at ONE location in the entire Albuq. metro area; I have to drive a round trip of @ 60 mi. to get mine.)

The two feeds are very similar in concept and composition.I am happy w/ the TE, since I cannot get the other...cost is slightly less than the THRIVE, and it is sold on one of the reservations, so NO SALES TAX! I am pleased w/ how my horses look and act on it!

Margo


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## SMW (Dec 10, 2012)

chandab said:


> I think I'd be inclined to carry a dressage whip with me when I went into her space and use it when she invades my space. A good spank or two on the shoulder (or possibly lower legs, if that's all you can reach) should hopefully bring her back to earth and reality. [the dressage whip would probably work on the calf biting too, as if you are carrying it at your side, it would be an easy motion to lightly pop her with it when she gets to your leg.]
> 
> My 3 month old colt bites my calves now and then, and I usually just raise my foot and pop him in the chin, not hard, but hard enough he's gotten the hint that biting is not acceptable.



couldn't say it better. I learned this watching my boss help me with a particularly nasty colt we have (i think he's 2 approaching 3), as a shetland he has his nasty moments, but with consistant discipline of "No" and the dressage whip to the toes if he rears and a bop on the nose if he bites - he's _almost_ normal (knocking on wood vigourously!) Had a break through yesterday where he is now leading nicely without being a jackass (although this was with a whip in my hand just in case, with a tap on the rear if he stopped.) From what i've learned from experience whether it be big or small horse, consistency is your biggest tool! Keep telling her what is and is not acceptable and eventually she will start getting it. Will watch this thread to see how you do, and hopefully your mare will be calm soon!


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## Cupcake (Dec 10, 2012)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> There are better ways than rich, coarse, high-energy alfalfa to address that belly. The belly is mainly a result of not enough protein and quality feed usually, and it's one reason why many mini people including myself go to the extra work of feeding beet pulp. The combination of a good quantity of soaked beet pulp, a basic low-starch, low-sugar complete feed to keep their topline in good shape and plenty of good-quality grass hay will usually take care of the problem all by itself. That and a lot of free exercise, of course! Does she have a large ball or other toys?
> 
> Leia
> 
> ...


Yes I meant the "positive only", I don't agree with that. I believe in establishing leadership (dogs and horses) using correction AND praise equally. The strength of the correction has to be balanced with the equal amount of praise.

She has a mini (dog) size jolly ball and a big one. She's more interested in the big one, rolling it down the hill and kicking it around





I'd like some more ideas to turn her pasture in a mini playground, safe and fun - anyone? Playing ring around the Rosie (sp?) with the waterhose is one of her favorites... When I'm trying to pull the hose over the fences she's on the other side trying to wrap herself in it faster than I can pull it 

I just got REALLY lucky with a great farrier who's also a mini owner so I'm getting some great advice since she also went to school for equine nutrition and much more (we talked so much I couldn't remember everything - women  )

Will post more in the other threat about the farrier question...


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## Cupcake (Dec 10, 2012)

Margo_C-T said:


> Regarding Jan's question about Total Equine--I'd about bet that is is 'THRIVE' that 'used to be Aussie Logic'! THRIVE is what I discovered before 'TOTAL EQUINE', via info from a Texas woman who was posting on the mini driving group list. My daughter was visiting in TX just at the time, and was able to pick up a couple of bags and bring them to me. The 'originator' of THRIVE is an Australian,name of Dale Moulton, who apparently now lives in TX? I REALLY liked THRIVE, but then, I no longer have ANY young stock. It's primary ingredient is alfalfa, second was timothy...so TWO FORAGE plants as the major ingredients. It was around $18.50/40 lb. bag, and recommended feeding level at 4 lb/1000 lb. horse/day, so yes, more expensive than other 'concentrates', probably. Trouble is, it is sold almost NOWHERE outside of TX...hence why I changed to TOTAL EQUINE(which is ONLY available at ONE location in the entire Albuq. metro area; I have to drive a round trip of @ 60 mi. to get mine.)
> 
> The two feeds are very similar in concept and composition.I am happy w/ the TE, since I cannot get the other...cost is slightly less than the THRIVE, and it is sold on one of the reservations, so NO SALES TAX! I am pleased w/ how my horses look and act on it!
> 
> Margo


My new farrier told me today that thrive and total equine used to be one company and split so yes, it's the same. Total equine is not your average grain, it's forage based and everyone I talked to who never heard of it keeps telling me to "take them off the grain", I halted my geldings feed amount and he's lost weight and I don't like the way he looks, although he's not skinny, but I liked his shape better when he was a little fuller. So I may up him again now that I realized that it's "not the average grain" type food.


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## Cupcake (Dec 10, 2012)

Regarding your "how they act on it", did it calm them? I ended up using it after a dressage trainer who owns a stallion told me about it, she used to not be able to bring him in a warm up arena and he would t stand still for pictures etc and it calmed him down. Also it's great for rescues, underweight horses, that's how I got my mini from what she looked like when I got her to now (and a ton of alfalfa of course LOL)


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## SMW (Dec 10, 2012)

Cupcake said:


> Yes I meant the "positive only", I don't agree with that. I believe in establishing leadership (dogs and horses) using correction AND praise equally. The strength of the correction has to be balanced with the equal amount of praise.
> 
> She has a mini (dog) size jolly ball and a big one. She's more interested in the big one, rolling it down the hill and kicking it around
> 
> ...



I've tried a few different toys with restless/bored horses if you wanted to try them? A big hit is the "nose it" ball, the foals went nuts over it, especially with a few horse treats and hay inside it. Also milk jugs/large gatorate bottles with a little bit of grain in it. They'll shake it all day, it's better if the bottle is see-through because then the motivation to get that grain leads to more play time. I found that to work GREAT with cribbers


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## Cupcake (Dec 10, 2012)

By nose it ball do you mean the dog balls or do they have some for horses too? Will it work in the stall with shavings? That would definitely be her kind of toy as she's VERY food driven LoL


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## chandab (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm not positive, but I think they make a Nose-It for horses. and, it wouldn't be the best idea to use it with shavings, but perhaps in a larger feeder.


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## SMW (Dec 10, 2012)

yes, it is a nose-it for horses  I used it in stalls with shavings and didn't have any issues with it? Curious about what your experience was with it?

here is the nose-it website http://nose-it.com/


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## chandab (Dec 10, 2012)

SMW said:


> yes, it is a nose-it for horses  I used it in stalls with shavings and didn't have any issues with it? Curious about what your experience was with it?
> 
> here is the nose-it website http://nose-it.com/


I haven't used one, but I've had issues with some horses eating shavings if they happen to spill their feed, so just a caution for those that might have hoovers instead of selective eaters.


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## SMW (Dec 10, 2012)

logical


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## KLM (Dec 11, 2012)

Hi,

I have to chime in with something I felt quite foolish with at first. I had my young stallion at the trainers and she taught me this. Another stallion at my trainers had this horrible habit of coming up behind humans and trying to mount them and bite with they turned their back. She would run backwards towards them and "squeel "NO" and kick out her foot behind her towards their chest. Crazy as it sounds IT WORKED! She said it was the easiest way for them to understand that YOU are the dominant one of the herd, not them.

I have since tried this on a weanling colt at my place who was starting the nipping at my backside when I left his stall and guess what... I only had to do it twice!

Good Luck!!!


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## Cupcake (Dec 13, 2012)

Tell you what, the squealing and kicking towards her (not even touching her with my foot!) works better than carrying a whip! When she sees the whip she keeps her distance since she knows. But yesterday I went in the pasture to change her water and she came up with the goofy playful look on her face head tossing etc and just as she was about to run into me/ rear up would have been next I turned my back, squealed and kicked, she looked confused for a second, stepped away a couple of steps then came walking up nice,y and just followed me around in the pasture as I was doing stuff.



I think this may be more "her language". Thanks


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## KLM (Dec 13, 2012)

Glad it worked for you!





Like I said, I felt foolish at first, but it works! If you watch the boss mare in the pasture, thats what she does and EVERYONE respects her! As you found out, you always have your foot and voice and you don't have to carry anything!


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## bunni1900 (Dec 26, 2012)

I use a chain on my horses. (Both big and small) A good chain over the nose is nice to have for quick and easy correction. It teaches them respect and to pay attention instead of fighting it. I will attach a picture of how I use it and how it is placed.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 26, 2012)

A chain is only useful if you actually have a problem that requires quite an aggressive response.


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## bunni1900 (Dec 26, 2012)

rabbitsfizz said:


> A chain is only useful if you actually have a problem that requires quite an aggressive response.


I only use it as a correction. Many people misuse the chain and really wrench on it. I simply make a small correction with firm but not violent hand. I NEVER am aggressive with it as that is not what the chain is for.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 27, 2012)

I am sorry I cannot see how using a chain as a punishment can be anything except aggressive.

It does have it's place if you have a horse that is uncontrollable in any other way, but I hate to see them being used routinely in the ring- I have tried this and found they were a definite drawback, not an aid at all, and now use a simple strap, even (especially) on the stallions.

When I am teaching a naughty Big Horse to load my "go to" piece of equipment is a broad chain over the nose, it is a brilliant piece of control/defense equipment and has saved me from flailing hooves many times, but once the lesson is learned it is removed.


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