# Question for QH people..pic attached.



## StarRidgeAcres (May 17, 2012)

Question for experienced QH people. I am reading this thread of stories with interest since it's happening in a small town near where I live. Obviously, the outrage is over the stolen funds, but I can't help but be somewhat shocked by the pictures of her horses (her website has since been taken down). Is this what QH look like now??? It doesn't look real to me. The horse looks like a body builder. Don't mean to offend anyone, it's just been shocking to me to see all the pics and video. Just wondering is this is the new standard. Thanks!




http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/18/11265755-citys-finance-chief-accused-of-looting-30-million-lifestyle-included-21-million-motorhome?lite


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## Jill (May 17, 2012)

Looks like a halter QH to me


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## bevann (May 17, 2012)

I'm not a QH person, but we have MAJOR QH shows at our state fairgrounds about 9 miles from my farm.I often go to hang out&visit my friends.YUUP,that's the look.Weird isn't it?They don't look much like that in performance classes-that'w where the pencil pushers are with noses almost on the ground.I bet the old timers QH people would cringe if they saw these animals who are supposed to be great cattle working horses.There are some lines out there that can still work.It really is a great breed.If someone asks me about a breed to start a kid on, my answer is always QH.


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## StarRidgeAcres (May 17, 2012)

Thanks for the replies ladies. My first thought, after "god, what is that???" was "how can that horse work?" Seems like the opposite of the MH halter horse where we've almost gotten to such a fine boned, thin bodied animal that I wonder how it can pull a cart to the other extreme of a horse (QH) that looks like Mr Universe. It's just weird to me...both extremes that is.

My neighbor across the street from our current place (SUPER nice people that I love dearly) have 4 QHs. They all are more muscled than I think looks normal, but one gelding looks unreal to me. The first time we saw him we were shocked. After we left Robert asked me what kind of horse it was and do they all look so freaky. I told him I didn't think they all looked like that and now I realize I'm probably wrong, but I also said I thought the horse was being given a steroid or something to increase his muscle. I can't imagine you get that naturally, but maybe I'm wrong.


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## Riverrose28 (May 17, 2012)

Sad isn't it! We show at the local 4-H shows that are open, and several QH breeders also show. I was talking to another old timer last year about how straight the legs were on some of the halter horses, I notice them sort of twisting when they walked, and they were not being shown in performance classes, he said Yep that's how their breeding the halter horses now, and they can't even lope cause the hind end is ruined. I was shocked. And I agree with Bev. that in Western Pleasure the heads are so low I don't know how the rider can stay on top. don't get me wrong there are still some in the ring that look like the old bulldog type that can work, but they are few and far between.


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## Jill (May 17, 2012)

The halter horses at that level are JUST halter horses. I think they have severe issues down the road from being so bulked up, and so stalled up, at such young ages.


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## StarRidgeAcres (May 17, 2012)

Jill said:


> The halter horses at that level are JUST halter horses. I think they have severe issues down the road from being so bulked up, and so stalled up, at such young ages.


Jill, my neighbors' horses don't EVER get outside! EVER! They are stalled 24/7, with each getting a daily round penning (inside, no sunlight) for 20 or so mins. In the 18 months we've lived there, I've seen ONE horse outside for about 30 mins when they were having a wiring problem in the barn and needed to work in his/her stall. That horse ran around like it was crazy. I really adore these people, but wish they let their horses out in the sunshine and got more fresh air.

Year-round, their horses have slick, shiny coats and are under lights in the winter months to, I guess, trick their bodies into thinking it's really summer. They don't even keep the barn doors open evenings in this nice weather. They want to keep the temp in a certain range.


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## Nathan Luszcz (May 17, 2012)

Wow, where have you been? lol halter horses have looked like that for decades  Aren't they ugly?


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## RockRiverTiff (May 17, 2012)

Oh boy, it's going to be hard to comment on just the horses here! Dixon - the town she fleeced - is just the next town over from us, though the Meri-J Ranch is actually located a little north on the border of Illinois/Wisconsin. Aaanyway, the Quarter Horses have been headed in that direction for a long, long time. I'm hardly an expert, but we dabbled in QHs for a few years, did very well at the open shows, even had a really nice state futurity mare, but just couldn't commit to doing what had to be done to win in association halter, and that was ten years ago. In all fairness, most QHs don't hit the ground looking like they do at shows. Here's a video of some of Rita's broodmares:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZD27oe5IgM

It's interesting to note that the most built-up horse in the video (appears around 0:52) is also the only visibly lame one. Like Jill mentioned, they get that extra-muscly look from extreme sweating and almost 24/7 stalling (though genetics obviously contribute). I have seen some horses successfully transition from halter into performance, but the halter division has become so specialized with the fine legs and extreme musculature that yeah, most of them really don't have the necessary range of motion. We actually had an excellent HUS breeder just a few minutes from us for years, and while I'm not saying that division is perfect either, it's hard to believe they were the same breed. I hope some day the top levels make a turn-around and come back to the hardier, more well-rounded style. In the meantime, I think the average QH owner is still choosing that, as I see hundreds of classic QHs at the open shows every year. Maybe we'll get lucky and someone that does show AQHA will come on here and explain the halter mentality.


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## Nathan Luszcz (May 17, 2012)

That's not exactly true.... at all 

You could argue that halter QH's and performance QH's are two different breeds.


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## RockRiverTiff (May 17, 2012)

Want to clarify which part of my post isn't true Nathan? I'm not good at translating emoticons.





Just wanted to add too that I think the growing popularity of the Performance Halter classes is a good sign. This page has a video showing one of Rita's stallions winning the championship in Performance Halter.

http://www.aqha.com/Showing/Select-World/Classes/Performance-Halter-Stallions.aspx

He's still a big boy, but this class is designed to encourage exhibitors to condition their QHs for form to function.


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## Nathan Luszcz (May 18, 2012)

Extra muscly doesn't come from sweating.... it comes from genetics (HYPP and other muscle disorders, selectively chosen and/or mutated) and work. When I worked on a halter farm (in the breeding shed, not the show barn) they worked them every day, usually ponying or walking on an automatic walker. The HYPP causes almost constant muscle tremors, which mimics exercise. The double muscling is similar to what's being selectively bred for in some breeds of super-cows. Like you said, most halter horses are unridable, both from a ROM pov, and a "the saddle won't fit" pov. Performance halter is a relatively new thing, where the horse has to compete at halter, plus a riding division (or two? I can't recall). They are much more trim, obviously, so they can wear a saddle and get out of their own way. And of course HYPP H/H isn't allowed to register anymore (I don't think). But they've bred them to the point they can be N/N and still look like they have HYPP. This is a decade's old "sport"... one I never understood. To me they are abominations, not beautiful  QH's are known for huge butts and kind attitudes, halter horses are so pent up I've known several stallions who have killed people before coming to me. My least favorite "breed" to work with.


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## circlesinthesand (May 18, 2012)

I showed halter way back when I was young, I also showed Western Pleasure (IMO, another section that totally destroys the breed) To those of us who have always valued performance QH's they are a black mark on a breed we know and love so well. Nathan is right, they're almost separate breeds entirely. These 'horses' and I use that term lightly are NOT what makes a QH in any shape or form. No one I know even shows QH shows anymore, down here there aren't many incentives to show and maybe like 3 shows in easy driving distance per year. If they do they only haul for a specific event, like a team penning. In my world, we all do either NCHA, NRHA, NRCHA or Ranch/Stock horse shows, rodeos or even open shows as an alternative. I didn't even register one of my geldings. Why bother? He's a 'best of' product of generations of breeding, a grandson of my heart horse, and is never ever going to be sold...ever. He's what a real QH should be and I didn't even bother with the paperwork and fees. And I doubt I'll ever bother with an AQHA show again, it's already been about 15 years since my last one and about 10 since I went to watch one, though the internet tells me nothing has improved, in fact it looks worse now than ever, certainly nothing to draw me back. Now that I'm not even breeding anymore I've let my membership lapse. AQHA hasn't done anything for me in years, nothing but provide papers on my colts...that's it. I'd rather toss my money at organizations that do support the same kind of horse I value and all those tend to be non-breed specific organizations dominated by real QH's and since AQHA deemed the white rule invalid what's the difference between a QH and a paint (the second most popular breed we see) so...there it is. I'm an NRHA member, sometimes an NCHA member etc. but not an AQHA member.

so I don't call myself a QH person any more, I call myself a Reiner who dabbles in cow work.


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## RockRiverTiff (May 18, 2012)

Nathan - I gave my nod to genetics, but we're going to have to agree to disagree if you're saying those horses aren't extensively sweated and stalled. I'm not saying you didn't see what you saw, but a hot walker seems counter-intuitive to halter conditioning as the circling would promote longer, leaner muscles. AQHA started blocking H/H in 2007, but I do believe H/N is still registerable. I had an Impressive bred mare that was N/N, and she was indeed a different kind of horse (both physically and mentally). Performance Halter also came about in 2007, but the rules get tweaked every year. Initially, a horse only had to have a ROM in a performance division in order to compete, but now they are also requiring that the horses continue to earn performance points in the current season in order to qualify for the division at World. It's not turning the tide yet but I do think it's a step in the right direction. I've known and ridden too many good Quarter Horses to discount the breed entirely and am always hopeful the more rational general consensus will win out over the extremes that are still being promoted by the minority.


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## Margo_C-T (May 18, 2012)

I was a fan of the QH beginning back in the mid-50s--only about 14 years after the AQHA was formed--and words cannot adequately express how sick and sad it makes me to see what has been done to the breed.

The first horse I ever bred, foaled in '57, was out of a 'grade' QH mare (who could have herself been registered, but my parents weren't willing to come up w/$200 for their 15 YO horse-nut of a kid...with research, I discovered the 14 h.1/2" mare's amazing bloodlines)...and sired by a blue roan grandson of King P-234(who I am aware, is now 'suspect' in the incidence of HERDA, via Zantanon, his(supposed)sire.) The resulting strawberry roan filly foal grew up to be a horseman's dream of conformation, correctness, and athleticism.She was first registered in the 'old' AQHA Appendix(as it existed then; its requirements have changed several times over the years); then when she was 3,those requirements indeed changed, and she ended up Permanent registered as "Misty Question".

I continued to own and ride QHs until I began owning Paints in the early '70s. I'd always loved the patterning, and yes, APHA horses were 'simply' colored QHs. IMO, the AQHA was foolish to START WITH to disallow horses w/ paint markings. I mean, how 'hidebound' can you BE?? Given the times, I'm not at all surprised that they were forced to 'give up' their meritless prejudices against paint/pinto spotting!I quit the AQHA/APHA show ring about 25 years ago when 'peanut rolling' became popular...no way in Heck was I going to make a horse 'go' like a whipped dog. I was 'there' when the NRHA was BEGUN, and did a bit of that back when, as I was ALWAYS an 'all-around' horse lover...not interested in a different horse for every event.

For a time I worked at QH shows in this area, but quit when I couldn't STAND that I could PASS a horse TROTTING in the arena in a show while strolling down the aisle...the snail-like gaits, not to mention the 4 beating 'lope' and the pitiful, sad, 'beaten' look of the horses...what about THAT is a "PLEASURE" to horse OR rider???(and, it has only gotten WORSE; the head may be a tiny bit higher again, but the way the horses are made to travel....STILL PITIFUL...)

That was years ago. I haven't let myself go to a stock horse breed show in years, but have seen enough during reading, and watching TV, in recent times to be utterly HORRIFIED at how much WORSE things have become. 'Halter' horses look like beef being readied for slaughter, and would be 'useful' about only FOR that; they can't MOVE!Certain 'performance' events are now SO 'patterned', and the horses clearly intimidated into a FEAR of EVER raising their head even the slightest...that the horse is afraid to simply walk forward.

To me, what is saddest, sickest of ALL, is that this was done as a CONSCIOUS choice by many breeders and trainers. What has been done to a once-noble breed(and I know, the QH is NOT the only breed this has happened to)is the worst example I can think of to prove that you should be careful what you 'try' for; you may get it.

Let me add...thank goodness, the performance-event breeders,such as those that like cutting horses, roping horses, 'real' multi-skilled horses, still produce many that are 'recognizable' more-like-original, QHs...smaller, quicker, actually athletic, and with that unbeatable disposition the 'real' QH was largely known for. They have FEET that can actually support their body size, they aren't 'muscle-bound', they have brains. NOW, if they would just let them mature before asking so much of them, if they would not mistreat them under the guise of 'training'.....well, you get my drift.

I will ALWAYS love a horse that personifies what the QH was 'supposed' to be.

(Look at one of the 'better' photos of Peter McCue, Old Fred, Oklahoma Star, just for a few examples.)NO post-straight pasterns/hocks, teeny feet, over-bulked 'meat animals' there. HOW CAN HUMANS BE SO STUPID??????

Margo


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## ~Dan (May 18, 2012)

When I first saw this picture in the origional post, I thought, "Wow, that horse looks like a beef steer ". That is rather disgusting if you ask me. Poor horses. My cousin is involved in QHs, and while they don't have any super-muscked halter horses, they so have wp/hp horses in their barn. They are Appendix QHs, and are so lenky and seem to lack muscle (at least my cousin's gelding) is less muscled than my neighbors 30 year old TB!! Pitiful, if you asl me.

Dan.


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## wildoak (May 18, 2012)

I rode & showed QHs too, at mostly a local level. We used to go to QH World show every year just to watch & shop lol, and I remember being blown away the first time I sat and watched a halter class at that level. We are talking at least 15 years ago, and even then they could hardly trot across the arena. I love the Performance Halter idea, makes so much sense to halter a horse who is actually correct and can _do _something besides stand up. Most of what I rode was old school - Poco Bueno, Skipper W... and solid little using horses.

Jan


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## Nathan Luszcz (May 18, 2012)

My appendix has the best of both



Great mind, good muscle, lean body.


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## StarRidgeAcres (May 18, 2012)

I can tell by reading these posts that many feel passionate about this and, rightfully so, are saddened at what has happened to a breed they love. I certainly didn't mean to "start" anything. I was just shocked by the look of what I saw. I too thought the horse pictured looked more like a bovine than an equine. Sad.


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## Margo_C-T (May 19, 2012)

Parmela, I don't think you 'started' anything but a good intense discussion. If we do not talk about these issues, how will things EVER improve?

Jan, I saw Skipper W. in his advanced years, at Hank Wiescamp's in Alamosa. The only instructor I ever really had was a QH man, carded judge, teacher of riders(NOT a 'horse trainer', but one who taught us how to train and properly ride our own) and a friend of Wiescamp's, and a bunch of us took a 'field trip' up; got to see the legendary old stallion and several of his offspring. It was a memorable experience.

In college, my barrel/poles horse was a handy little buckskin gelding who'd been first trained for cutting. I trained him myself, and we won both $ and buckles; he was actually best at pole bending, and a whiz at reining. He was by Dusters Wings, by Starduster by Oklahoma Star, and out of a Peter McCue-bred mare, and he was very much the kind of horse you mention....a 'solid little using horse'.

It is truly beyond my comprehension that ANYONE could think that the QH has been 'improved' by the ways so many of them have been bred in the years since I became involved with the breed. It seems to me an object lesson in how NOT to approach the breeding of horses.

Margo


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## RockRiverTiff (May 19, 2012)

I'm with Margo - I don't think you started anything but a good coversation Parmela. I don't see any post on here with a point that I disagree with, and even if Nathan and I disagree on whether genetics or conditioning are playing more of a role in the "bovine" look, we both agree that it's not good for the breed. The extreme World level QHs may be the most advertised/visible, but I think Quarter Horses remain one of the most popular breeds in the world because of the sensibility and usability of the type that you are still seeing outside of the showring.


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## Jill (May 19, 2012)

There are a lot of things done to show animals that I don't think are in the best interest of the animal. Sometimes it is way to extreme, imo.

But, as an example of what I think is "okay", I've always felt that when people are "outraged" about razoring, they don't have a very broad perspective...

Everyone has their own ideas and their own moral meter, but for the horses, I kind of think: If I had to do _________, _______, and _________ and in exchange, had my every need met and got to spend 90%+ plus of every day doing nothing that I didn't want to do, would I feel lucky? Razoring, exercising in a sweat, lunging, and quite a few other items pass that test for me.


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## circlesinthesand (May 19, 2012)

RockRiverTiff said:


> The extreme World level QHs may be the most advertised/visible, but I think Quarter Horses remain one of the most popular breeds in the world because of the sensibility and usability of the type that you are still seeing outside of the showring.


This is what our breeding program was always based on, making a usuable horse regardless of the show ring's 'flavor of the week' We've always took an unusual stance in making the all around horse vs the specialized horse that is so increasing popular these days. People look at our breeding and it's a little bit all over the place, lol We've got old foundation, mixed with race mixed with heavy modern cutting lines mixed with some of the more modern reining lines. The 2 best horses on the place are my gelding and my dad's young filly. My gelding is the product of 4 generations of mares we owned and raised. His gr grand dam was my childhood horse a Top Deck X a Blackburn daughter who was inspected mare (her registration number was really really low!) His grand dam was more old style running blood (who I showed all around, but she started as a WP futurity horse) then we brought her back to a King ranch bred stud to get his dam, then because we were still heavy on running blood but wanted to maintain it we brought her back to a Doc's Sug X Tuffernhel/Skipper W sire to get the best horse I've ever had the honor to own. My dad tries to trade him with every one of his horses, heck he's even offered up 2 for him  but he's mine and he's not going anywhere. He is a beautiful mix of cow and running with no repeats on his papers til you get way way way back there (IOW, no line breeding.) He's extremely talented. Quick, catty, cow sense, calm, but game and ready to go do whatever I want.

My dad's filly is a daughter of our second oldest mare, heavily cutting bred mare a Peppy San X Doc Bar/Leo mare and a mostly all running bred Dash for CashxTop Deck/Cactus King sire. She's soft, supple, awesome attitude, not started on cows yet but if she's anything like I think she will be I'm not at all worried. Her only fault is she's a bit too tall for me  My dad doesn't mind but I'm short, I like mine under 15.1h 

All our younger horses are nicely mixed running x cow bred. It works for us.

They're not specialized breeding, they're the 'best of' bloodlines with the right look, attitude and ability. We wanted our horses to still have the cow sense, the athletic ability to rein and the calm trainability to do ranch work and at the end of the day still be able to handled by kids, so we bred that goal.

QH's used to be versatility horses, but now it's all about specializing and you loose hardiness when you breed too much for specific traits. You see those cows of halter horses or you see reiners with tiny legs and feet or you see cutting horses with big ole honking heads or running horses with flighty attitudes...but the thing is...The QH is supposed to have it all!!! Looks, ability and attitude

I believe that this is the reason Ranch Versatility and Stock horse associations are becoming so popular. They value the working horse regardless of breeding, horses who can do it all. People generally enter all the events they can @ our local association. The shows themselves are really alot more like what your old QH shows used to be!! We have had so much fun @ them and it's more like family than extreme competitors out to make a buck at all costs. The last AQHA shows I went to, people were putting glass in other horse's feed and sticking them with needles to make their necks stiff....just not my kind of thing....


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## Marty (May 22, 2012)

Here I go dating myself again but back in the day, we had one horse for everything: I'd go in halter, western classes, run out for a tack change for english, hit a few jumps, and if we still felt like it, run a barrel for the heck of it and then go trail riding all week.. That's when quarter horses were built to do it all easily and willingly and loved it. They didn't go lame and act insane, nor were they 17 hh and they were also your best friend that you spent serious training time with. Not these fly by nights who supposidly produce 30 day wonders. Bah!

Then somewhere along the line it changed. Everyone went to one horse for every class. No more "do it all" horses.

I never could figure out why anyone would have a "lead 'em and feed 'em" halter horse if they couldn't get out of their own way. Form = Function in my old world. You had to have the conformation to move.

In my humble opinon, I wouldn't have that horse in the picture if it were given to me on a silver platter.


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## little lady (May 22, 2012)

Excellent topic!! I come from the quarter horse/paint horse world and this is one of the main reasons I left.I was trying to raise an all around horse-one that could win in the halter classes and turn around and win in performance classes, it was a losing proposition. It has gone to the extreme and the health and comfort of the horse is deemed unimportant for the sake of a win. HYPP plays a role in some of the muscling with less "work" the horses show more definition of muscle which is what the halter horses need to win.(That and to be tall) Unfortunely the combination of these usually lead to the breakdown of their feet and legs. I certainly hope as responsible miniature horse showers and breeders we can use this as an example of why doing something to an extreme is not good.


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## bcody (May 23, 2012)

I have two quarter horses. One is an appendix, he is big (15.3) but the sweetest, most easy going guy around. The other is foundation, short and stocky. She can work all day, chase a cow, run a pattern do some obstacles or ring work. She is awesome, my 9 year old daught rides her. Both horses are light and responsive. If I wanted a third like them, it would be hard to find out here in cutting territory. It is a shame what has happened to them, and other breeds. They keep HYPP for muscles, HERDA is in the cutting lines, they say a carrier has more flexibility, so that's OK? I love my horses, love what they represent of the breed, but am disgusted by wht is allowed to happen for money. And it is happening in so many breeds. Look at Morgans and Arabs.

I agree, excellant topic, not 'starting something.'


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## Flying minis (May 23, 2012)

I call them "sausages on toothpicks" - those QHs with huge bodies and thin legs and tiny hooves. . .


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## StarRidgeAcres (May 23, 2012)

little lady said:


> I certainly hope as responsible miniature horse showers and breeders we can use this as an example of why doing something to an extreme is not good.


I guess this is the biggest thing for me too. It would be interesting to have a discussion on minis and what, if anything, folks are seeing that concern them for the future. Keeping this type of evolution in mind.

Thanks for all the responses. I've learned a lot from this thread. I'm not very hands-on familiar with QHs, but I still learned a lot.


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## ardie&sparki (Jun 20, 2012)

My sister purchased a 2 year old mare from the AQHA world sale last year and has been showing her this year as a 3 year old. I have learned quite a bit through the horses we've seen at shows as well as those her trainer works with. Not everyone of these horses turns into nothing after their halter careers. There are many that turn into sound rope horses and barrel horses after they have weight taken off of them. Every trainer is different, some more extensive than others as with all breeds. Many of them give the discipline a bad name, however this is not always the case. My sister plans on doing halter for this year and then turning her into a riding horse in English or possibly for barrels depending on what direction she is going better in. She is very sound, athletic and gets regular turnout in addition to her fitting. Her legs are not small at all. She is a pocket pony as well, it's all in how she has been treated though. A lot of the time, with any breed, the animals are more machines than anything. Her sweating consists of being ponyed for fifteen minutes, which I do not consider "extensive" since I ride my horse for longer than that. Though again, all trainers have their different programs.

As people have stated before, it's not just the QH's that are having these issues. Look at all the breeds, you're bound to find something you will disagree with. We've shaped them into what we want.


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## Norah (Jun 20, 2012)

I have a 29 year old QH , and she is out of Sugar Bar .... ( or something like that ) she is living in USA with my ex , very happy and loved , she is 1 /2 that size and still quite robust ... I guess we all agree that the poor horse has been over enhanced to a disgraceful degree. 2 things. Instantly poped out to me as I saw her photo .... That horse is sick , and that horse is feeling pain. Look at the eyes , if you pumped up a human like that , I am sure his liver would be overworked . I feel very sorry for the horse , I think it would be happier dead then pumped up like that by a person with its head hurried so deep in sand that she can't see pain , and sadness on her own horse .


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## ozymandias (Jun 20, 2012)




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## HGFarm (Jun 20, 2012)

I have to agree- looks like a 'halter horse' to me. I pretty much got out of the bigger breeds when this got so ridiculous- these horses have feet and leg problems- too much weight on tiny feet because that is the 'fad'. I have seen it with the QH, Appies, Paints and so on... youngsters that are so overfed, over worked and steroided up to look like body builders. I like a good performance 'do it all' horse and most of these hefty halter types couldn't walk their way out of a wet paper bag. I have no use for any of them. I dont know why 'man' thought it was an improvement over what previous generations had- a horse that could halter, perform, work cattle, race, jump, etc... To be a good example of the breed, horses need to be able to hold up and stay sound with use- and many of these halter horses cant even stay sound without being worked for simple riding. Its sad. QH's were originally a good horse for working cattle- quick on their feet, agile and sound to work all day. Can you imagine any of these horses trying to do that?!! I am VERY disillusioned to see the Minis have started to also have a 'halter type' and a 'performance type'.


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## ozymandias (Jun 20, 2012)

I can't imagine the physical and psychological damage done to an animal designed to move 20 to 40 miles a day that's kept in a stall 24/7



So sad.


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## REO (Jun 21, 2012)

Margo_C-T said:


> I was a fan of the QH beginning back in the mid-50s--only about 14 years after the AQHA was formed--and words cannot adequately express how sick and sad it makes me to see what has been done to the breed.
> 
> The first horse I ever bred, foaled in '57, was out of a 'grade' QH mare (who could have herself been registered, but my parents weren't willing to come up w/$200 for their 15 YO horse-nut of a kid...with research, I discovered the 14 h.1/2" mare's amazing bloodlines)...and sired by a blue roan grandson of King P-234(who I am aware, is now 'suspect' in the incidence of HERDA, via Zantanon, his(supposed)sire.) The resulting strawberry roan filly foal grew up to be a horseman's dream of conformation, correctness, and athleticism.She was first registered in the 'old' AQHA Appendix(as it existed then; its requirements have changed several times over the years); then when she was 3,those requirements indeed changed, and she ended up Permanent registered as "Misty Question".
> 
> ...






:FirstPrize DITTO!!!!!!!


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## MindyLee (Jun 21, 2012)

ozymandias said:


>


OH MY! That meat would scare me to eat... pumped full of who knows what! NOT RIGHT!!!


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## wildoak (Jun 21, 2012)

Agree with Marty, as kids we had ONE horse that did it all - rode bareback all week, cleaned up and slung a saddle on for the weekend and showed multiple events. We truly enjoyed our horses, they weren't such investments that we were afraid to_ ride _them all day.






This is the last big one we have raised - not like what I rode, but boy she's athletic and she can move! She's a Last Detail daughter (aqha sire) out of an apha mare.

Jan


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## chandab (Jun 22, 2012)

MindyLee said:


> OH MY! That meat would scare me to eat... pumped full of who knows what! NOT RIGHT!!!


Its not pumped full of anything, but it is a specific breed, the Belgian Blue, and they have double muscling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Blue

But, they are definitely freaky to look at. [There were other websites listed when I googled, so I just took the first.]


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## Aristocratic Minis (Jun 25, 2012)

*Back in the day, I rode and showed QH's. Before I had a registered QH, we had "cow ponies" and ranch horses which came from working ranches. The horses were bred and raised to be versatile horses to do all sorts of ranch work. They had naturally low set heads to better look at cows and had slow easy gaits for working all day on a ranch. If needed, they could burst into a fast dash to catch up with a loose calf.*

*My first registered QH came from the King Ranch and was sired by Hired Hand II, who was by Hired Hand, who was by Old Sorrell. In those days Poco Bueno was big news as was Wimpy and Doc Bar. Mr. Waggoner who lived in Vernon and Ft. Worth was certainly an influential breeder*

*Back then the heads were smaller and the ears were set high and were smaller. The height was 14.2 to 15.2 generally. The hindquarters were very muscular but not overdone. *

*Nowadays, the halter horses can barely walk from being muscle-bound and could certainly not do any ranch work at all. The peanut rollers of today have often been forced to have the low head set while the early QH's had a natural low headset. Horses are taller and many have a big ole ugly honkin' head unlike the pleasant heads of long ago. *

*Like all breeds of horses, cattle, dogs and any animals which are competitively shown, changes occur over the years. Most of these involve "extremes" which cannot always be a good thing.*


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## Sue_C. (Jun 25, 2012)

> I am VERY disillusioned to see the Minis have started to also have a 'halter type' and a 'performance type'.


Ditto. Give me a well put up horse, with something behind that head and neck to work with...oh...and to have "something" IN that pretty head is always a good thing. LOL!


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