# I may have bought a heartbreak



## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

I went to look at a stallion and in the paddock with him was a mare "possibly in foal". Well there was no possibly about it. She was huge in the belly and her udder was hard and her vulva was swollen more than I've ever seen. She will foal in the next few days I'd say. But the awful thing is she is near starving. Her backbone is about 1/2 inch above her back and every vertebrae is visable. I can feel each and every rib but can't see them due to the horrible feeling dull fur over them.

Of course I took her home. I could not leave her there, even though they say she may be carrying a mule and not a mini foal. Doesn't matter, no way would she have been able to foal out safe there with a stallion, a stud donkey and two other donkeys in the same paddock.

I've given her a small amount of grain and half a leaf of hay to start with (which she ate gratefully) but she is almost groaning as she is eating due to being so full of baby?

Is there hope that this mare can have a healthy foal and is there hope she'll hold off awhile and get heatlhier.

I think she is maiden, and there is not a drop of milk in the udders but that vulva just could not be looser. How long can she go with a vulva like that.

Could everyone please hope and pray for my little Carmel. She is so sweet and quiet, she will be a lovely mother if she can find the energy.

Below are pictures of her and her vulva and udder last night. The udder has gotten much bigger this morning.

amanda


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## kaykay (May 23, 2010)

Oh my gosh my heart sank seeing those pics. Her vulva is HUGE. But that small udder worries me. Could she have fescue poisoning? I would consult a vet and see if he recommends dopimine (sp) shots. I would for sure try to have some colostrum and milk replacer on hand. I would also do a total body clip and get that hair off her before she foals. Shes probably not shedding due to lack of nutrition. Go slow with the grain but I would keep hay in front of her so she can eat small meals thru out the day. I would also wait a couple days and deworm her. Or deworm her as soon as she foals.

My guess is you will have to wean the foal early as once it starts nursing it could suck whatever weight she has left off. Years ago we bought a 2 yr old that was NOT supposed to be in foal but was. That foal took her condition down so bad we had to wean him at 8 weeks.

Mule foals tend to have a longer gestation but man she looks ready to pop.

Sending prayers it all goes okay


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## AppyLover2 (May 23, 2010)

Don't have any advice. Just wanted to say bless you for giving her a new home.


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## barnbum (May 23, 2010)

Oh I bet a gentle bath will help her feel better? A soft cloth with warm water to wash her udder and between her teats would make her smile? Then it'd be easier to clip her a bit, as Kay suggested.

I have no experience with horses in this condition, but I'm sure hoping once she foals she'll be gobbling a LOT of grain to be able to feed her baby. The constant hay should start to turn things around.

Poor poor mama.

You get the blue ribbon of the month for being willing to take her home. Thank you. Thank you.


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

Not likely to be fescue poisoning as she was only in a dry lot with round bale hay. But I really dont know her past much at all I suppose anything is possible. I'm going to look into a friend of mine's to see if she has stored colostrum. She did lose a foal a few years ago, but that probably would be no good to me. Do mule babies need the colostrum as badly as horse babies. Gosh it makes me sick to look at her little body and that huge belly, such a contrast.

I'll give her a nice warm bath today, it is a lovely sunny day and try to clip her, that might be hard though as she is all angles and bones.

Thanks for the good wishes guys, I'll keep you all posted. Please God let her and baby make it.


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## barnbum (May 23, 2010)

All babies need the colostrum.





Even if you can clip her belly back where the udder is and all around forward and up from there. Anywhere a foal might try to suck before it finds the milk spigot and could get a mouthful of hair. Those should be smoother spots and easier to clip.

Good luck. I'll be watching your posts for news. Prayers sent for your Carmel.


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## fancyappy (May 23, 2010)

Thank you and bless you for taking her, for feeding her, caring for her and loving her. Her life and her baby's will be so good in your hands.

Go light on the grain but give her all the free choice hay she wants ..sounds like you already have a good plan to help her and I believe there is a beautiful mare under all that hair.


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## rcfarm (May 23, 2010)

You are a angel



Ditto on the clipping. God bless you for saving this mare.


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## Annabellarose (May 23, 2010)

When I clicked on the pictures she didn't look near as bad as I expected her to from your description. She was certainly in need and *thank God* you found her and were in the position to buy her (I suppose you had to buy her to "rescue" her?) and give her a good home. I can't advise on the issue of what to do for the foal at this point, but I can tell that she does still have some "meat" on her bones (the insides of her back legs for one) and will, hopefully, snap back herself. She doesn't look bad to me at all compared to what I see on a regular basis around here (I really hate Kentucky, I am not from here!). I live in a very rural area where concern for animals seems completely non-existent.


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## Bess Kelly (May 23, 2010)

My suggestion would be that you add some nice alfalfa leaf to her hay, a couple times a day. We all know a lot of calcium is needed for foaling & milk. Plus, it does help with the PH in her stomach, so it will be a good thing all around and not a grain. Some vit/min would be a good thing in small amounts as she is probably low in those areas, also.

Best you can do is "wait and see". The vulva looks huge but, is she dark pink inside? Maybe she is naturally larger there -- or the stallion/jack were breeding her? -- some stand during pregnancy and when nearing foaling, the scents simulate cycling. Is the tail loose when you lift it? Well, to be honest, with her nutrition many things won't be normal, sorry. Some mares don't bag much until very close to foaling and with her condition, it would be exaggerated.

Wishing you and her the best --- like holding out a while. Sure looks close. Keep us posted.


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## Minimor (May 23, 2010)

Research has shown that starving horses should not be given grain--something, carbohydrates I think but I could have that wrong, has a negative effect on the horse & causes organ (kidney) failure. She should be given hay--and again, research has shown that alfalfa is the best thing to give to a starving horse--she should be fed small amounts frequently.

Poor girl--I hope she will do okay for you--I would want to have some colostrum on hand and also a milk replacer (or goats milk formula would be my choice) for the baby. I would not give domperidone to such a thin mare--I'm not sure that she has the resources to make milk for a baby. If she does make milk it may be at the expense of her own health. I would leave her to provide whatever she has naturally, and supplement the baby with formula--more work for you, for sure, but much better for the mare.

Bless you for taking this girl out of the situation she was in and giving her a good home. I pray that she & baby will come through all right.


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## Bonny (May 23, 2010)

Bless your heart Amanda! Your an angel!!

I feel so bad for your little mare! Here is something that I may be able to do to help you.

I have goat colostrum from a Nubian goat that would be a wonderful substitute for your new foal if Momma doesnt have any. I can send it right away if you need it. I have a friend with many contacts that may also be in your area where you can pick up goats milk if you need it.

I have raised a foal on goats milk and he thrived. Its not exactly the same as mares milk but fresh raw goats milk is universal and would make an excellent substitute.

I hope she holds out a bit longer for you.

Holly


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

Everyone, thank you for the prayers. Maybe things are not as bad as they first seemed. I gave her a nice warm sudsy all over bath and as I was doing it guess what I found. Yup millions of lice all over her body. So out came the clippers and she stood wonderfully (in fact she seemed to enjoy it) for a full clip with the exception of her legs. Her ribs are not actually horribly visible now that she's clipped and she almost looks more hopeful and happy. Here is her new look. It almost seems like she gained a bit of weight just from the two meals and all the hay she got in the last 24 hours. I let her eat some fresh grass as a reward for her good behavior. Now she is back in her stall with hay and she is still eating hungrily.

Question, I've dusted her with louse powder. Is it safe for baby, or should I bath her tonight before I tuck her in just incase she foals?











Holly, I know a farmer with goats. If I have to I will ask him for some milk. I'm sure he would let me have some.


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## pinkapache (May 23, 2010)

Holly, I know a farmer with goats. If I have to I will ask him for some milk. I'm sure he would let me have some.

Actually, cows milk is actually closer to mares milk than goats, I know this as I raised 3 orphans that I rescued in the past and was surprised to discover this fact. Well done on getting her out of a disastrous situation, I hope it all goes smoothly for her.


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## Make A Wish Miniatures (May 23, 2010)

She doesn't look nearly as bad as a mare that we rescued back a few years ago. We did not feed grain for a while (Vets instructions) We gave the mare free choice coastal and small meals of alfalfa during the day. We did give her domperidone to bring in her milk.You should probably have colostrom (from a horse) on hand and then use the goats milk or milk replacer. We did have to wean early at two and a half months as the mare got so pulled down and the foal was eating well. Good Luck .The mare is lucky you rescued her.


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## bannerminis (May 23, 2010)

Firstly well done to you for taking care of this little mare in need. But I will say I have seen worse cases so looks like you might have caught her before her condition worsened.

If you found a lot of lice then I would treat her with multivit with Iron as those little beggers could have her anemic.

Have everything crossed for a safe delivery and for mother and baby to thrive.


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## StarRidgeAcres (May 23, 2010)

Thank you so much for getting the beautiful mare out of that situation! You are an angel. And I personally disagree with some who've said she doesn't look that bad. Yes, sadly, there are always worse, but she is so heavy in foal and there is a ton of water weight that goes along with being in foal. Within an hour of her dropping that baby you will see how truly thin she is. When an underweight mare foals, it's startling to see what is left on the mare - once the baby is out and the water weight in going down...oh my gosh, it's a sad sight. So, keep with the hay and maybe contact a vet if you have one that can help. Granted she doesn't look close to death, but she IS terribly underweight and it will be so obvious once she foals.

Best of luck to you and her!


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## Tab (May 23, 2010)

I see it over and over again because people hear that minis hardly need to eat any food and they're always fat. They hear that they are so susceptible to colic and founder that you don't dare feed them. That idea leads to people to starve their horses.

The pregnant/lactating mare, breeding stallion, and growing weanling have nutritional demands no matter what breed. She was probably given hay, maybe grass. I have seen worse, Her butt cheeks actually touch. I'm not giving the seller excuses.

I bet it will be a happy ending now that she has someone who is aware of her condition and can help her. I agree with those who mentioned very gradually introducing grain into her diet. ALSO, PROBIOS. Give her probiotics before graining and then once you are graining. Her body needs to adapt to digesting concentrates.


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## Matt73 (May 23, 2010)

I wouldn't give her any grain whatsoever. I would just provide her with good-quality free-choice grass/timothy hay to start. I think you're asking for trouble by giving a horse like this grain right now.


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## chandab (May 23, 2010)

Bless you for taking her in.

While she doesn't look as thin as it sounded, I agree that once she foals she'll drop considerable weight.

Here are a couple websites for refeeding starved horses, while they don't deal with pregnant mares specifically, they should still be helpful:

http://www.completerider.com/nutrition.htm

http://www.equineelders.org/feeding.htm (I realize she probably isn't elderly, but they can face similar problems with digestion)

You might talk to your vet about feeding her soaked beet pulp in addition to her hay, its easy to digest and provides more energy than most hay.


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## REO (May 23, 2010)

Check out my colostrum bank! Anyone there sort of close?

I have a lady in Rhode Island who has some, if you email me, I will put you in touch. Maybe you can have some there waiting, before she foals for just in case?

I didn't look at the pics because it would have hurt me too much to see. Thank you for taking her! Those people! GRRRRR!!!

I agree, alflafa would be good.

[email protected]


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## barnbum (May 23, 2010)

Oh--she looks much better and happier now!! She looks better than I thought she'd look, but I bet some consistent food is going to turn things around in a hurry. I'm betting she can support a foal, once it arrives. I think you've got a few days... maybe a week?

She's in good hands!!




Thank you, again!


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## Relic (May 23, 2010)

Good luck and hope all goes well with mom and her foal to come...sometimes l really dislike people and wish what they make animals go through gets done to them at some point.


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

She's holding her own as of 3pm today. She's doing the cricket leg rubbing thing and lots of tail swishing but she doesn't seem to be progressing any further in the udder/vulva area. Of course the vulva can't get much more progressed. It is not bright red inside though. She's sleeping alot and seems very comfy now.

I'll keep you all posted and thanks so much for everything.

amanda


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## Miniv (May 23, 2010)

Bless you for taking her in....... You've received a lot of mixed advice, but basically all good, IMO.

Since you put de-lousing powder on her, I would rinse off the lower half of her and rewash her bag area. (Lice seem to like to hang around the mane, tailhead, and backbone. Oh! And they also like the upper insides of the legs....so check there too.) I'm sure she won't mind the extra attention.





With the extra nutrition you are giving her, you may luck out and delay the birthing a bit. This is just from my personal observation, but we've taken in underweight pregnant mares over the years who were in their last trimester....and we began feeding them "up"......and every one of them ended up foaling LATE. I am guessing but like to believe that Mother Nature was allowing the foal to stay put for the benefit of both mother and baby.......Otherwise, you'd be looking at a late term abortion.


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## yankee_minis (May 23, 2010)

She looks more like she is close to foaling than she is skinny. I've foaled out over 30 mares. As they get close their hips stick out because in front they start to sink in and they butt angles off like that. Their spine is visible. They look horrible but it is actually a natural step of their body getting ready.

Human babies drop in the last month. We're on 2 legs, but imagine if that weight was pulling off our back -- our spine would be sticking out and our ribs would be showing.

I've gotten horses that were worse looking and they weren't pregnant.

I think she is in better shape than you think. Which is good for the baby and momma.

If she was getting grain before, you can feed it again. If she wasn't, just give her a cup twice a day to start her out slowly. Free choice hay.

Of course, your vet would be able to evaluate her better.

I think she's close to foaling. Have you considered getting pool test strips to test the pH of her milk? When it drops to the lowest pH she will foal within 24 hours. You can buy them at WalMart. Saves you anxiety until it is needed


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

Not one drop of milk in those teats yet, but I'm trying every hour or so because I do believe she is going in the next few days and I just cannot let her do it on her own. I have the mother's nature test strips and have had good success with them in the past but always had some milk to work with. The stallion she was in with was also very skinny, so I think it is a combination of not enough nutrition AND the effect of being so close to foaling. Will keep you all posted.


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## krissy3 (May 23, 2010)

darling little mare you got there. I hope everything turns out well for her and her little foal. Thats great that you were able to rescue her, so she can now thrive in her new life. I will be eager to hear more about her progress.


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## horsehug (May 23, 2010)

She is sure a beautiful little mare, and with your care and feed I bet she will thrive.

I look forward to hearing about her progress from you and seeing her foal when he or she arrives. 

Susan O.


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## Minimor (May 23, 2010)

> Actually, cows milk is actually closer to mares milk than goats, I know this as I raised 3 orphans that I rescued in the past and was surprised to discover this fact.


If you used straight cow's milk you were lucky--unmodified cow's milk is higher in fat content and much lower in protein and sugar content than mare's milk, and is not suitable as a substitute for mare's milk. It can cause diarrhea, enteritis and dehydration. Cow's milk is supposed to be mixed with sugar & lime water to make a suitable foal formula. That is from multiple veterinarians, not just me saying it.

Goats milk with a bit of corn syrup added is an extremely good foal formula.


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

Alright everyone things are moving quickly here. Here are the pics of this mornings udder and this evening at 6pm. Not sure she's gonna hold out much longer.











Got one tiny drop of liquid out of them, so maybe we'll have milk at foaling time.

amanda


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## rockin r (May 23, 2010)

Do you have a web cam? If so I will help watch her for you! Good Luck!!


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

I have a camera but not on the net. I'm on my own with this, but thanks for the offer. I'm going to have to look into that for next year.

amanda


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## barnbum (May 23, 2010)

She does look closer! You got her just in time!


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## AnnaC (May 23, 2010)

Sending prayers! So hoping all goes well for your sweet little mare and her coming baby. You are an angel - good luck!

Anna


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

oh my goodness, this is moving along fast. Now I'm able to get 2 - 3 drops of opaque, yellowish extremely tacky milk. I was going to test it and discovered I dont have any distilled water. How was I to know that I was going to buy a mare and it would be ready to foal in 24 hours. wow, life can really throw you curve balls. At least it looks like she will have milk.

amanda


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## bonloubri (May 23, 2010)

She is a very pretty mare. I hope she foals without any problems. My mare doesn't seem to get much bag until she has her foals so yours may do the same. BTW I don't remember seeing her name....what are you calling her?


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

Her name is Pine Bluffs Carmel Delight.


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## yankee_minis (May 23, 2010)

I don't use distilled water with the pool test strips.... might be worth a shot to get a baseline...

Sticky milk is a good sign.


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## AnnaC (May 23, 2010)

It's nearly 4am (UK time) and I'm sitting here glued to my camera, watching and waiting for 3 of my mares to make up their minds as to whether they will foal or not, and I was just wondering how things were going with Carmel. Any news yet? Am keeping my fingers crossed for you





Anna


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## luv2ridesaddleseat (May 23, 2010)

Bless you for taking her, I'd have done the same thing. This is going to be tough on her, nursing a foal. Prayers for you, her and her foal. She deserves some goodness in her life, poor mare. I pray all goes well with all of this.


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## weerunner (May 23, 2010)

Carmel is rubbing her tail in wild abandon and shaking her head, but not much else. So far, so good. She is the quietest, lovingest mini I've ever met. She just has to make it through this safe and sound. Will let everyone know as soon as she goes.


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## barnbum (May 24, 2010)

Checking in before I head out for chores... bet Carmel is happier by the minute... well, and will be even more so once that baby is out.


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## Maxi'sMinis (May 24, 2010)

You did a good thing



Carmel will be in my prayers that she gains strength and foals easy. Poor girl thank the Lord you found her. Isn't it something how we end up where we need to be when we are needed! Good luck with your lovely girl. Will be watching for updates.


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## Elk Ridge (May 24, 2010)

First of all....Pat yourself on the back for bringing her home!

Second. Be very careful about adding grain to the her diet. Free choice good quality grass hay and some alfalfa is best. If you really feel she has to have grain (and I know I would be feeling that way) then go get a bag of Senior grain. Its easier to digest. Im a Purina fan, but may not be available in your area. And a cup am and pm is not too much. Follow the 10 day rule. Let her adjust to new found feed and dont make changes, unless vet say otherwise, less than 10 days apart.

Gives her time to adjust. 

And make sure she has access to salt block. So many hungry horses are not given salt at all. And good clean water.

We saved a herd of 9 using this method. The worst one of the group was a two year old filly that looked like a weanling. As we were loading them to bring them home she layed down and gave up. All we could do was pick her up, load her in trailer and hoped she would be alive when we arrived home. She was. And many years later she is healthy and producing foals. 

When we brought this herd home we were very careful not to use to much of a good thing too fast. And I am happy to say. We didnt have a sick one as a result. 

Good Luck...and again....GOOD FOR YOU!


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## weerunner (May 24, 2010)

Hey everyone. I'm happy to tell you all that she is looking so much better. The lice are all but gone, of course I will have to retreat as the eggs hatch but there are none running around on her now. I'm still finding dead ones as I'm grooming but as of this morning no live ones. Her vulva has gone down slightly in puffiness. Someone here had mentioned maybe she was being 'abused' by the stallion and Jack in her paddock and maybe that was it.

I've combed her mane out completely. I'm going to see if I can buy some wormer today, but not sure what to use. I've emailed her former owners but I'm not getting a response so far as to whether she was ever wormed. I probably should start with a Stongid product, right?

Oh my yes, she loves her mineral/salt lick. As I'm watching her on my camera last night, she was licking and licking that block, 1/4 of it is gone since she arrived. And of course she is drinking water like crazy. She is going through 3 - 2 gallon buckets in a day.

Thanks to everyone again for praying and hoping for her to hold on for awhile, it seems to be working.

Here she is this morning:











and her udder






amanda


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## bannerminis (May 24, 2010)

Well she is looking good - as good as can be expected. You are doing all the right things for her so she has every chance.

As for a wormer I would start with a broad spectrum wormer to begin with and my vet always say if in doubt of the history to worm again in 2 wks.

I had a yearling colt I bought in a terrible state and had an infection and liver issues and he took a lot of treatment but with time and care he grew like a mushroom and turned into a gorgeous 36" boy (gelding) and he ended up with a lovely family and treated like royality.


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## AppyLover2 (May 24, 2010)

My goodness what a pretty girl she is. Sure doesn't look like the same horse as those pictures you posted a few days ago. Great job.


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## supaspot (May 24, 2010)

if you dont know her worming history I would suggest giving her half the normal dose and then worm her again in a week , if she has a large worm burden and you kill them all at once it could cause her to colic


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## albahurst (May 24, 2010)

This story is going to have a happy ending- I can just feel it


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## Katiean (May 24, 2010)

I saw a rescue of a big mare that was in foal. She was so thin she didn't look pregnant. She looked like she had a rather large tumor. They were hoping to have a month with her to get weight on the mare but I believe she foaled within the week of her rescue. A couple of hours later the mare died but they saved the foal. This mare you have pictured is bad. But, she is not near as bad as the mare I mentioned. Good luck with both the mare and foal.


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## targetsmom (May 24, 2010)

First of all, bless you for taking in this mare.

This reminds me of a mare (full size) that I bought back in 1973 that turned out to also be bred to a jack!! The seller kept insisting that she wasn't pregnant though, so I was not giving her the extra feed she needed for her pregnancy. Then I thought the big belly might be from worms, so I wormed her - with a product not to be used for pregnant mares! My mare foaled 2 days before my vet was due to give her a pregnancy test. By this time you could count her ribs. But she had a very healthy mule colt (outdoors in November!) and as soon as she got the food she needed, she gained her weight back.

Hoping you have a similar happy ending.


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## barnbum (May 24, 2010)

albahurst said:


> This story is going to have a happy ending- I can just feel it


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## lil hoofbeats (May 25, 2010)

Annabellarose said:


> When I clicked on the pictures she didn't look near as bad as I expected her to from your description.


I did not think she looked that bad either. i have bought horses in worse shape from some "reputable" farms. With a little feed,and worming i think she will be just fine. Good luck with your new mare!


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## pepperhill (May 27, 2010)

Just a couple of thoughts: I'm sure you have inspected the other horse you got for lice as well, right? If one has them they probably all do. And, you might pour a little vegetable oil over her hay or in her grain if you've decided to give it. The oil will add fat calories which will not cause colic/founder like the sugar/starch calories will. It will also help her skin and coat after the lice infestation. Make sure you blanket her at night now that she is clipped as she doesn't need to burn a single calorie trying to stay warm at night. And finally, donkeys gestation is 12 months so if you are having a mule she just might go longer. hard to say. Best wishes, and good for you for caring!


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## ArabianEcho (May 27, 2010)

Adding fat to her diet in the form of rice bran or corn oil will help her add the weight faster and produce more milk.

There are also some nice mare and foal complete feed that I'd try.

I'd start with a small amount of each and add more as she get used to the food.

Electrolytes will also increase water consumption which helps with milk production.

Good luck and we'll keep your little gal in our prayers.


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## weerunner (May 27, 2010)

I never thought about adding a little corn oil to her feed, you're right that would help her dry skin from the lice and also give her a little extra energy and shine. Excellent suggestion. She is on Mare and Foal feed right now. Milk amount that I can express has increased but is still sticky yellow. Soon, I'm thinking.


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## Versatility Farm & Training (May 28, 2010)

I didn't think she looks as bad as described, but once she foals she probably will look worse. Keep in mind being that thin you HAVE to be there when she foals. Maiden mares have a hard time foaling sometimes, but a extremely thin mare will be more likely to have problems and less likely to have the energy to push it out. Hopefully you are able to watch her 24/7. The foal needs colostrum from a Mare first ASAP then its possible to switch to another animal. The lice dust can be used after she foals, but in a small amount only on her topline, not where the foal could get at. Oh and lots of beet pulp will help her gain weight and stay hydrated.


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## Katiean (May 28, 2010)

If you want to add an electrolyte supplement Manna Pro makes a Multi-Species supplement called Bounce Back. I mix it in my horses wet feed in the winter. But, it would work well in your mares stall water. It is not flavored and comes in a 4lb bag.


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## wpsellwood (May 28, 2010)

just waiting for the foal pictures



good luck and great job!


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## White Socks Miniature (May 28, 2010)

Lots of good thoughts and prayers for a safe foaling!!


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## twister (May 28, 2010)

First of all bless you for saving this little mare. We will keep her in our thoughts and prayers that her little one is born safe and sound and that she continues to have a healthy and happy life with you. <hugs> Yvonne


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## Allure Ranch (May 28, 2010)

_Best wishes for a HEALTHY mare & foal....._


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## AnnaC (May 28, 2010)

Sending prayers and supporting thoughts for your little girl. Wishing her, her foal and you an easy and successful foaling









Anna


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