# Hospitals these days are terrible!



## Marty (Jul 19, 2010)

I took a friend to the hospital. I can't beleive this emergency room. People in there hurt and bleeding, crying, gasping for air, thinking they are having a heart attack but are left to sit and basically take a number. Seems unless you come in by ambulance, you will sit and wait, even though you are ready to fall down and die.

When my mom was in the hospital and had a 5-way by pass: Here I was with two kids that had to go to school, I had to work, but yet it was my duty to live there round the clock just to be sure she was fed and taken care of because if I wasn't there, she'd starve. How come there are no nurses and nurse's aides to take care of patients anymore? Isn't that their job? Don't get me wrong I always took care of mom and I didn't mind taking off work but since when is it the full time job of family members to take up residence in the hospital and have to police the staff? I had two little kids that needed tending to also, but oh well, I'll just say heck with them and let them live on their own and raise themselves for a few days right, cause hey, daddy's still got to work? UGH!!!!!! Mom was blind, couldn't find her food even if she knew they left it there, had alzheimers and if I left for a couple of hours to go back and forth to get the kids from school, by the time I got back, sure enough there'd be a problem. I had to always get clean sheets and change the bed myself or she'd lay in a mess. Just what do we pay hospital bills for anyhow? Where's the help the patients are supposed to be getting? I made countless complaints and nothing did any good. And oh yes, mom had tons of insurance but still had no care.

Then I just heard of a lady in her 70's had a masectomy and was released from the hospital the very next day. That's horrible treatment! I have another friend having gall bladder surgery on Tuesday and they are going to throw her out on Wednesday. What on earth?????


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## Jill (Jul 19, 2010)

I had to go the the emergency room recently (pneumonia), and it isn't anything like what you describe at the hospital I went to. People were seen quickly, no one was bleeding, gasping, clutching themselves, etc. Nice waiting area, plenty of staff... It was in Warrenton, VA.

Then back when I had my surgery last year at INOVA Fairfax, the hospital was exceptional. Just top notch all the way around and I was treated very well. Some of the best doctors in the world are there. It is on the list of the 50 best hospitals in the Nation, and I can see why.


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## uwharrie (Jul 19, 2010)

Not all hospitals are bad.

My husband had back surgery a little over a month ago and the hospital was fantastic. Everyone, went over and beyond to make sure he was well cared for. They also took great care to make sure I stayed informed the entire time. His was out patient.

I just had surgery three weeks ago ( different hospital) and was in 5 days. Again the staff was nothing but topnotch. The nurses were compasionate and did everything they could to make sure I was comfortable.

No they don't come running the minute you push the call button but I never waited more than 5-10 minutes. And seeing that each nurse/nurse assistant is assigned multiple patients it is understandable.

Don't blame the hospital for sending folks home quickly after surgery, that is all dictated by the insurance companies.

I would have gone home on Sunday (Friday surgery) had I not had complications.


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## hunterridgefarm (Jul 19, 2010)

I have to agree with Marty.

A few months ago I was having some real bad pains in my stomach. We went to the ugent care and from there I wassent to the Er.from the ugent care with a IV hooked up to me with pain meds in. when the meds was gone the pain was back to the level they was at the ugent care. I was to be taken right in and have an MRI and a CAT scan done to see what was going on. The ugent care had called and had this all set up to be done. But I had to wait a good 3 hours before I had it done. Then the doctors dont spend 5 mins with you.

But one thing Idid see was the ones that was on medicad and the ones that was in there just to get pills was taken a head of me. Yu could hear the pill users saying i am hear just to get pills.

I think it has a lot to do with drug users and the ones that is using the system that makes it a lot harder then the ones that are hurting and the ones that is sick


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## Shari (Jul 19, 2010)

Is why I won't go to the hospital around here. They are the ones that tried to send me back home after I broke my back, couldn't even feel my left leg, let alone move it. They are also the ones that sent my DH home with 3 clearly broken ribs a few years back, after he came off his motorcycle.

I know much of the lack of treatment on our part is because we have Military insurance, and they will pay them less than medicare. sigh ~~ So they don't even want to see us let alone treat us.






Managed to fall yesterday, tried cleaning cob webs out of my garage and put the cane aside. Yup, that worked out well. At least this time I hurt my left foot. So much for getting any thing done around here. Should go have my foot checked out but I won't, because of that hospital. They will just send me home, saying nothing is wrong.


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## Jetiki (Jul 19, 2010)

some of it also depends on the size of the area around you. I would drive 30 minutes to the hospital vs the one thats 5 -10 minutes away due to lack of care and the staff.

I was kicked in the ankle thought it was broken, they took me did an xray sent me back to the waiting room then put me in a room with an ice pack and left, my door was right next to the staff lounge they were in and out of that door constantly, while i sat in the room ignored 3 hours later i left no one had ever come in my room. then i got a bill i laughed hysterically at home called the hospital explained my situation and what happened to me. i stated to them, that I would pay for the xray only since they actually did that. But I refused to pay for anything else. on my bill was dr's, nurses and supplies that i did not receive i told them had I received those things i would pay for them but since i didnt and no one knew that i left i just walked out, people walked past me as i was leaving and didnt say a word. the head of the emergency departmentcontacted me and i never saw another bill except for the xray.

i still wont go there and my neighbors who have been here almost their whole lives wont go there either... guess that says it all.

Karen


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## Bassett (Jul 19, 2010)

> But one thing I did see was the ones that was on medicad and the ones that was in there just to get pills was taken a head of me. You could hear the pill users saying i am hear just to get pills.


How can you tell who is on medicaid? I don't think anyone can. You have to be really poor to be on it. My husband is on it but we can not afford to pay over $4500.00 a month for his nursing home care. But by looking at him NO ONE would know that he was on medicaid. I'm just wondering how you can tell. No offense, just want to know.


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## hunterridgefarm (Jul 19, 2010)

Bassett said:


> How can you tell who is on medicaid? I don't think anyone can. You have to be really poor to be on it. My husband is on it but we can not afford to pay over $4500.00 a month for his nursing home care. But by looking at him NO ONE would know that he was on medicaid. I'm just wondering how you can tell. No offense, just want to know.




No offense to me what so ever

when you have them there showing the card and talking bout it then they are they are see the doctor before you


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## sfmini (Jul 19, 2010)

I have had two hospital stays for surgeries this year and had wonderful care. There was an intercom in my room so when I pushed the nurse button someone answered right away asking what I needed. Depending on what it was I either got the nurse or aide within minutes. Both times in 4 days, the doc talked about sending me home earlier but I didn't feel ready so I stayed with no problems.

The emergency departments here have a triage system where they do a quick evaluation and then prioritize care to make sure those that are the sickest get seen first. Those who don't have life threatening problems will wait so those that do get the care they need to survive.

The congestion in EDs is caused by people without insurance coming in for routine stuff that a primary care doc should deal with. Medicaid recipients have the best insurance in the country so they can and do go to docs instead of the ED.


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## wildoak (Jul 19, 2010)

Lots of differences between hospitals! We had an experience with a large public hospital in Dallas that was a nightmare but most others, esp private hospitals, have been fine. ERs though are a different story - I think the average wait in an ER now is something like 6-8 hours!! Last time I was there (not life threatening but scary yellow jacket sting that swelled up the entire left side of my face) they put me in a room within an hour and then forgot I was there. Ended up with about a $1000 tab for a quick exam and an injection....





Jan


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## Bassett (Jul 19, 2010)

hunterridgefarm said:


> No offense to me what so ever
> 
> when you have them there showing the card and talking bout it then they are they are see the doctor before you



What I'm saying , how do you know it is Medicaid and NOT medicare. I don't think you can tell by seeing the card at a distance. I believe you must mean medicare. All people over 65 are on medicare. Medicaid is so different.

I feel for anyone who has to go through what you guys do. Thank the Lord we don't have hospitals like that around here. So far anyway. Don't know what will happen when Obama care kicks in. I'm afraid we are all in for quite the surprise.


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## Matt73 (Jul 19, 2010)

No offense to you Americans but...Thank God I live in Canada! Dont they have a triage system there? Or is it based on who has money up front lol





Just wanted to add too, that when my sister was in the hospital in Massachussetts (sp?) she had excellent care. She was there for 3 months or so. They had great insurance, but even that ran out after a while. I shudder to think what they owe; probably in the high hundreds of thousands of dollars. In Canada they would have owed $0.


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## Miniv (Jul 19, 2010)

Hmmm.... I think each hospital is different.

We live half way between two towns and I know that when given a choice, I would NOT want to go to the one east of here.


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## Katiean (Jul 19, 2010)

A couple of years ago I was taken to the ER with stomic cramps. They let me lay in the ER for 3 days before they did anything for me. I ended up with a colostomy and almost died. They say the longer you are in the ER the lower your life expectancy is. Then when I regained conchousness (awake and knowing it) the nurses would not let me get up and the DR cept griping I needed to walk. It also took my sister coming from OR where she is an RN, to come and gripe at the nurses to even clean me up. I had not been cleaned in over a week when she got there. The care we get really sucks and is about to get worse.


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## Sonya (Jul 20, 2010)

Having been to many different E.R.'s and hospitals, I can say overall I got top notch care and quickly. Except for once. Of course I only go to the E.R. for emergency's (collapsed lungs 4 times, burst appendix, internal bleeding from operation)...I was seen quickly for all and didn't not see anyone sitting around forever waiting for care. I recieved excellent care, even when the one time I did not have insurance. The only time I had a problem was with the appendix. They rushed me out of the surgery and I was in my car on my way back home within an hour of the surgery. Had I stayed overnight, they would of noticed the internal bleeding that almost killed me.

Those of you who have had bad experiences, just wait...it's only gonna get worse.


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## ohmt (Jul 20, 2010)

I am thinking that the people who are getting 'kicked out' are the people who's insurance does not cover hospital stays. Trust me, everything is about insurance and being able to pay. I am a receptionist at an urgent care and take care of the insurance side of things. There is A LOT more MA insurance out there than people realize so it doesn't make a difference because they make up 3/4 of the people that are seen. Doctors and nurses get paid the same no matter what the insurance so the care you receive does not depend on that. it could be the doctors or nurses, it could be the facilities, it could be that the hospitals are understaffed. I'm guessing it's that they're understaffed. Imagine being a provider, working 12-14 hr + shifts, being greatly understaffed and having to try to figure who takes priority. I know, it's their job, but it's a BIG one.

Also, if you're having problems with the staff, file a complaint. All health care facilities have a way to get a complaint to a supervisor, ask a receptionist how. No facility is going to keep staff that provide poor service. That's a huge liability risk and one a hospital just isn't going to want to take.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 20, 2010)

I can say for the most part I have had decent doctors at the ER-the past few years I have been there more often then I would ever care to. Of course having an illness very few doctors know anything about and having to explain it to them as they look it up online doesnt always help and doesnt always equal great care but the majority of the time it is not for their lack of trying...

The only real complaint I have is they should warn you the chaplain is coming around just to say hi... Before I was diagnosed and they were all very perplexed as to what was going on with me.. enough so that they called the head of the ER in from home to check me out..all I knew is I truly felt I was close to death and then in comes the Chaplain.. I totally freaked out I was screaming OMG im dying you came to sit with me while I am dying..Bless his heart he did try very hard not to laugh while explaining he was just there to visit and pass the time.. but finally he could not take it anymore he was laughing so hard he was crying and I was trying to get my heart rate back down LOL


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## Jill (Jul 20, 2010)

Matt73 said:


> No offense to you Americans but...Thank God I live in Canada! Dont they have a triage system there? Or is it based on who has money up front lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Matt, you know I adore you...

However, I disagree so much with the point of view regarding Nationalized healthcare.

IF I had lived in Canada last July 31, 2009 when I found out via a CT scan that I had a "lesion" in my lung, do any of you think that on August 21, 2009 (3 weeks later............) I would be in surgery to take out what was lung cancer (something few people survive). Under our current healthcare system, it was just 3wks for me from finding out something horrible was wrong until I was being fixed.

In that 3wk period, under our current healthcare system, I had a bronchoscopy (out patient surgery) another CT Scan, a very expensive CT-PET Fusion Scan, lots of bloodwork, and other diagnostic scans and tests. I think that under a Nationalized healthcare system, on August 21, 2009 (surgery date), I would be scared out of my mind, knowing something was seriously wrong with me, and waiting to for the FIRST diagnostic test to get to the bottom of what it was. I do not know if I would be alive right now if I were cared for under a socialized or universal health care system .

There's a reason so many people who do live in nations that have National / Universal / Socialized healthcare who can afford to seek coverage in the USA have done so in large numbers.

Because it's such a hot topic, I asked my surgeon, my regular doctor, and my pulmonologist what would have happened to me last summer if I did not have health insurance. All three doctors told me the same thing. I still would have had the diagnostics and I still would have had the surgery. I would have had a big hospital bill, but you know... It's only money. I'd pay a whole heck of a lot of money in order to stay alive. In the situation like I had, time is of the essence. You need a rapid diagnosis and rapid action or you could die. Period. You get that kind of turn around time, for now, in here in the USA.

_PS side note, I never smoked, but still got lung cancer..._


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## Jill (Jul 20, 2010)

Matt, btw, YES emergency rooms here DO use a triage system.


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## Sonya (Jul 21, 2010)

It's not always the insurance company that dictates whether you stay overnight or not when you have surgery. I had my emergency appendectomy done at a hospital up near my camp (one I had never gone to and will never go again), they released me within an hour after the surgery. The next day we went home and the bleeding became evident so we went to a hospital that I had been to before and one where my family doctor is a member of. That hospital was shocked that they released me so quickly after the surgery. They said it is always an overnight stay for an appendectomy at their hospital, regardless of your age or condition. My insurance company pays what the hospital feels is necessary.

I am not looking forward to the govt deciding what is necessary.


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## Matt73 (Jul 21, 2010)

Jill said:


> Matt, you know I adore you...
> 
> However, I disagree so much with the point of view regarding Nationalized healthcare.
> 
> ...



And...you know I adore you, too, but...Yes, with life threatenting illnesses people get looked at/taken care of very quickly here. There is a lot of misinformation (dare I say propoganda) directed at Americans regarding our level of health care/health care system. I believe it's meant to scare you off of our system of health care


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## susanne (Jul 21, 2010)

The simple fact is: every hospital system is different.

I can only speak for Portland-area hospitals. I've had my share of hospital "vacations"...one of which began with an ER visit and several days of intensive care, two after short stops at urgent care, and one scheduled surgery. In addition, I've recently had three day surgeries on my eyes. Between surgeries, my life is a barrage of procedures and nonstop doctors visits.

These stays have involved four of the major Portland metropolitan-area hospitals.

My husband works at one of these (my eye surgeries were in a completely different area than that in which he works), so I've also had an inside view of how things work. (I only had day surgery at "his" hospital, and it was in a very distant department.)

My experiences with doctors, nurses, CNAs, and other staff have been, for the most part, outstanding.

One surgeon had tears in his eyes when telling me the positive outcome of my operation; a nurse who suspected I had contracted pneumonia while in hospital stayed after her shift to contact my doctor and make certain he knew why she was concerned (she was correct); CNAs who knew how much I hated the regular hospital coffee and went out of their way to get me the "good stuff." (OK, this last was not lifesaving, but it was of dire importance to me!)

The nurses, in particular, were amazing. With each stay, I was there long enough to witness some of what they put up with from nasty patients (some of whom are simply reacting out of pain and discomfort, but nonetheless take tremendous patience).

I did have one bad nurse, and she was a doozy (During a low blood sugar episode she wanted to check my blood sugar instead of just getting me food. Those who know me can guess how I responded






My experience with hospital administration and insurance are quite different, indeed.

The second-hand view I get through Keith's work in a day surgery unit is that no matter where you go, there are good people and bad. Sometimes the bad are simply exhausted from overwork.

Some doctors are amazing, others believe their own publicity. Some nurses are saints, others are basketcases.

With the hospital Keith works at, the further you get up the administrative ladder, the less connected with patient issues they become. Like many corporations, hospital top administrative managers place pressure on middle management to meet unrealistic budgetary goals. If, say, a nurse/manager objects to unsafe staffing, his or her supervisor suggests that perhaps they are not suited for management, or that they can always lay someone off to meet budget.

Keith's department is constantly overbooked with surgeries and severely short-staffed. Keith does the work that previously was done by three employees. The nurses are similarly overworked, rarely getting their scheduled lunches or breaks.

There are departments in his hospital where nobody wants to work, due to mismanagement and an unpleasant work environment. This sadly affects patient care. Keith's department, day surgery, is a coveted assignment, due to good management and teamwork. They frequently receive commendations from patients. Even in such a good department, however, there is the occasional rotten apple, including a couple of the surgeons.

I always go in expecting great treatment, and so far I've received it. I make a point of smiling and joking and treating all with respect and appreciation. The nurses in post-op teased me for thanking them as I came out of anesthesia.

I just wish upper management and insurance companies treated patients and employees as well as I've been treated by doctors and nurses.


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## Jill (Jul 21, 2010)

Bottom line, I am really conscious of how grateful I am that when I got sick, I it was pre-National healthcare in the USA and that I lived in the Northern Virginia area (very affluent) where we have some of the best doctors in the world.

How many good doctors will we have when the Government is able to dictate how much they are able to earn? Not that good doctors are solely motivated by money, however, for that type of job, you need to be financially well compensated. As it is now, I'd be surprised if my regular doctor makes a better living than I do and I know the absolute worst thing I could ever cause in the way of harm to a client will not be a matter of life and death. And, I have easier office hours!

I have extremely deep concerns for what the future holds in terms of the USA's healthcare system. Hopefully, it really will not be a single payer system like in Canada. It's something that I've spent a lot of time thinking, learning and talking about.


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## Matt73 (Jul 21, 2010)

Jill said:


> Bottom line, I am really conscious of how grateful I am that when I got sick, I it was pre-National healthcare in the USA and that I lived in the Northern Virginia area (very affluent) where we have some of the best doctors in the world.
> 
> How many good doctors will we have when the Government is able to dictate how much they are able to earn? Not that good doctors are solely motivated by money, however, for that type of job, you need to be financially well compensated. As it is now, I'd be surprised if my regular doctor makes a better living than I do and I know the absolute worst thing I could ever cause in the way of harm to a client will not be a matter of life and death. And, I have easier office hours!
> 
> I have extremely deep concerns for what the future holds in terms of the USA's healthcare system. Hopefully, it really will not be a single payer system like in Canada. It's something that I've spent a lot of time thinking, learning and talking about.



I'm just happy that you're well, Jill



But I have no doubt that you would have had excellent care in my country, too


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 21, 2010)

My parents family live in Canada(both of my parents were born and raised there) and have had wonderful health care for many many years.

I think it doesnt make any sense to assume that an entire country has poor health care (despite the fact they tell you otherwise) makes about as much sense as to assume every hosptial experience in America is like the one that Marty had.

There are always exceptions but seems to me I see plenty of healthy canadians walking around





Like anything both countries have good and bad doctors I think the truth is both systems have some flaws and those flaws have a huge effect on peoples lives


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## Shari (Jul 21, 2010)

One of the reason's I do not mind the move to VA... if this place ever sells!! Is I will have a chance at good health care, either on one of the Military bases or Civilian, don't care but someone that cares and knows their stuff and willing to listen.


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## minie812 (Jul 22, 2010)

I have to say that with all that I have been thru in the last year I had exceptional care



. Yes, there was a few nurses that were having a BAD HAIR DAY but I have also worked in the hospital setting and I can tell you that with the cut backs and patient to nurse ratio they work their asses off and then some. Blame it on cut backs-insurance companies and the almighty dollar and it is just a SIGN of the TIMES. Folks with no insurance go to the emergency rooms and tie the staff up with a cold or headache instead of true emergencies...


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## kaykay (Jul 22, 2010)

Like Marty I have hospital stories that could make straight hair curly.

My sister had lung cancer and had her lung removed (major surgery) I went to see her and she was screaming in pain with the chest tube laying on the bed oozing everywhere. I asked how long she had been laying like that and it was 2 HOURS. Went to the front desk and kicked a** and eventually moved her to a new hospital. Like Marty, we had to always have a family member there or there was no telling what they would do to her.

Last year I took Kyle to the ER with a suspected appendicitis. Did xrays and said they were taking him to surgery. Called hubby out of work and then waited 6 hours. Surgeon came in and refused to operate. Said his appendix was swollen but not bad enough to take out. The nurse was SHOCKED. Hubby and I were scared to death to take Kyle home and the surgeon accused me of being a bad mother wanting my son to have surgery he didnt need. Took Kyle home.

One month later he had another attack but much worse. This time we took him to Childrens Hosptial. The new dr claimed it was nothing and was going to send Kyle home with no tests etc. He said Kyle wasnt in enough pain to be his appendix. I kept telling him Kyle has a high threshold for pain and you cant go by that. Long story short they sonogramed him and his appendix was HUGE and they thought it had burst. Took him to emergency surgery and thank god it hadnt burst yet. The surgeon was wonderful but did tell me that what ever Dr saw him the month before should be shot for not removing that appendix. The Dr did come and apologize to me and Kyle and said he learned a huge lesson. So at least that hospital ultimately listened to us.

I have always said you have to question everything and be your or your family members advocate when being in a hospital.

Kay


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## Ellen (Jul 23, 2010)

This last year I have become an expert in hospitalization and care.

I had 2 surgeries at a major hospital and unless I has Russ running after the nurses for pain meds and empty IV bags, things just did not get done.

Since this i have had nemerous hospitalizations at our local hospital where my family physcian of 15 years called the shots, the nurses cared and they made sure i was taken care of. If I didn't sleep, someone was there, If I didn't eat, someone was there. My illness has escalated to the point that Our little hospital can not handle me. I was referred elsewhere, and I tell you I refuse to be alone for anything, even I follow up visit. In the bigger hospital the poor staff is just plain over worked, and quite frankly, don't care.

Last weekend I had another flare and was in great need of an ER visit, I refused. My family physcian was on vaca and the team of speacialists did not return my phonecalls for 4 days! This is ridiculous.

Before I became ill I worked in the dental field forever and I tell you I would not have even let a tooth ache go like that for my patient. The bigger the hospital, bigger the doctor the less they care. And it is highly because of insurance issues and budget cuts. Something here has got to change!


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## Jill (Jul 23, 2010)

See, my experience was so different than what some others are describing. Inova Fairfax is not a small hospital, and like I said, it is ranked as one of the best in the Nation. My surgeon is BIG TIME, and he was the head of his department at the hospital in addition to having his private practice. I had such quick access to him, had a small problem with the incision getting infected and was able to see him the very next morning after I called. Very easy to talk to. Copied me in on all his letters to my other doctors describing what had happened to date, describing the pathology report when it came back. Honestly, I cannot think of how any of my doctors or medical facilities could have done a better job with helping me and helping me so quickly.

If you pay attention to the news, or talk to doctors, you know that their Medicare reimbursements have been recently cut (again). Once everyone is stuck on a National system, and the government is setting reimbursement rates, we are going to see massive numbers of doctors retire and fewer people will pursue medicine as a career. All those years of education, all that emotional stress, all that liability... and a capped income? How can that be good?

Additionally, the strain on employers will be stellar. We are already hearing about some consequences, if you're listening. As an owner of a corporation and an employer, I know that starting next year, employers will have to report the amount of health insurance premium they pay for employees on the employees' W2's. Why do you think that might be? ...... It shouldn't take long to come to a conclusion there (your benefits will be taxed). If you think it's expensive now, wait until you see the upcoming financial consequences and the result of the Gov't having the say so in what you "need" and what you get.


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## Minimor (Jul 23, 2010)

> IF I had lived in Canada last July 31, 2009 when I found out via a CT scan that I had a "lesion" in my lung, do any of you think that on August 21, 2009 (3 weeks later............) I would be in surgery to take out what was lung cancer (something few people survive). Under our current healthcare system, it was just 3wks for me from finding out something horrible was wrong until I was being fixed.
> In that 3wk period, under our current healthcare system, I had a bronchoscopy (out patient surgery) another CT Scan, a very expensive CT-PET Fusion Scan, lots of bloodwork, and other diagnostic scans and tests. I think that under a Nationalized healthcare system, on August 21, 2009 (surgery date), I would be scared out of my mind, knowing something was seriously wrong with me, and waiting to for the FIRST diagnostic test to get to the bottom of what it was. I do not know if I would be alive right now if I were cared for under a socialized or universal health care system .


I have no doubts at all that you would be alive even if you lived in Canada during that time. Don't forget, I had the same thing, I was treated here in Canada, and I survived. In the first place, the tumor you had is slow growing & non-metastasizing. In the second place, our health care system does not dawdle with things like this.

When it was determined that I had something wrong with my lung, I got in for my broncoscopy in a week or 8 days, and 10 or 12 days after that I was in hospital having my surgery. I didn't get sent home quickly--I was kept in for a full week and would have gone home then except for the fact that I had a pneumothorax & had to have a chest tube put back in--I then stayed in several more days. I didn't get sent home in serious pain with tubes still in. No complaints whatsoever with the medical care I received for the same condition you had. You do not have to be in a US hospital to receive quality care


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## sfmini (Jul 23, 2010)

Both of my surgeries this year were in a large hospital in Columbus and I received excellent care. IVs were changed as soon as the beeper went off, and if I rang for something, I got someone in seconds.

I also have my surgeon's cell phone number and have 24/7 access to him.

Yes, he does answer it, I had to call on a Sunday morning and he answered right away.

Don't get that kind of care from my personal doc.


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## susanne (Jul 23, 2010)

Jill,

Speaking of doctors, whatever happened with the doctor(s) that missed your diabetes? Hopefully he/she/they WILL be retiring! (I've had a couple like that, and I'm always reminded of the idiots you had to deal with.)

Frankly, the insurance companies have everyone's nuts in a vise (sorry...crudeness is called for here).

I am all for doctors being extremely well paid. My eye surgeon drives a $100,000 Tesla -- good for him. He's amazing. But doctors get a tiny percentage of our healthcare dollar. The insurance companies, on the other hand, are simply sucking us dry, cancelling insurance policies when people make a claim after paying premiums for years.

Can you say bloodsuckers?

The current system is abominable and the new plan is a pathetic compromise brought about by partisan politics.

I refuse to believe that the wealthiest country in the world cannot come up with a plan that takes care of EVERYONE, provides excellent care AND ensures proper reimbursement for healthcare providers.

We're not there yet. This is NOT a partisan issue, but one on which we must all work together and demand a REAL solution.


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## Jill (Jul 23, 2010)

What doctor missed my diabetes? I was diagnosed years ago. I think you may be remembering / questioning why they combined Byetta and insulin, which didn't work well for me. But no one missed my diabetes.

The system works well now. It could be improved. But it is slated to get worse.


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## susanne (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm sorry...I must have misread your post way back when on this thread:

Since I know all too well the side effects of diabetes, your post really bothered me at the time -- enough that I remember it to this day.



> Posted 15 August 2007 - 01:54 PM
> 
> Well, to be honest, I think I've been diabetic actually for YEARS.
> 
> ...


Again, I apologize if I misunderstood your original post.


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## Jill (Jul 26, 2010)

Thanks, Susanne, for doing a search about my miscarriages. It was nice to click your link and see miscarriage highlighted all over my referenced post.

Although a couple of days ago when you questioned doctors possibly missing my diabetes, I didn't remember feeling that way (3 years ago) but now that I re-read the post, I do. At one point in time, I felt like my OBGYN's had missed that I was diabetic, or pre-diabetic. I no longer think that is the case... After all, I didn't bother to go to medical school and at that point in time, 3yrs ago, I was pretty emotional about the miscarriages and scared about my kidneys. I'm not sure if that's relatable to you or not.

Like many women, while I should have been seeing a primary care doctor in addition to an OBGYN / GYN, I was not doing so. Luckily, while my eyes, like yours, are not good, my kidneys are just fine and my diabetes is well under control with an A1C of 6.2 last time.

To bring it "full circle" in terms of this thread, I've only been to the emergency room a few times in my life and in each case, I was treated well and in an appropriate time frame. I didn't ever see bleeding people laying around nor people who were suffering heart attacks left in the waiting room. Through our current healthcare system, I've had access to prompt care that probably saved my life. At this point, we have the best healthcare in the world, and I fear that is going to change for the worse in short order. With what I have been through, the conversations I have had with my doctors and others, the news I am very attentive to -- I can't help but feel as I do.


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## Sterling (Jul 26, 2010)

kaykay said:


> I have always said you have to question everything and be your or your family members advocate when being in a hospital.
> 
> Kay


I agree with this 100%. I am always on my toes when any family member enters the hospital....double checking things and asking questions....don't care if I'm a pain in their behinder. Family comes first.


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## susanne (Jul 27, 2010)

Jill, I apologize for the highlighted words. It was certainly NOT my intention to bring back sad memories.I simply intended to show where I got the idea that your doctors had missed your diagnosis.

I had never previously referenced earlier posts and didn't realize that any search terms would remain highlighted once it was linked.


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## Tab (Jul 27, 2010)

I have a friend who worked in the ER and I asked her why are ERs so terribly slow. We have all been there, hours and hours spent at the ER. She responded that it was due to people seeking non-emergent care at hospitals. Chronic pain conditions, dental services, STD checks, well care visits, etc, services that are covered by welfare that can be sought at the hospital. It clogs up the waiting room and prevents the urgent care to people who actually need it.

What is worse is this health care bill that was passed. It sounds so wonderful, but in reality it's going to complicate your ability to receive prompt care even more. It's just the same thing at your family doctor and ob/gyn visit. People with minor complaints taking up two patient slots and preventing the people with high risk issues from getting in right away. I have taken up too much time at the doctor, so I'm not exempt. Always good when I write down my complaints on paper so that we can get through it quickly without mincing words!


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## tagalong (Jul 28, 2010)

> IF I had lived in Canada last July 31, 2009 when I found out via a CT scan that I had a "lesion" in my lung, do any of you think that on August 21, 2009 (3 weeks later............) I would be in surgery to take out what was lung cancer (something few people survive). Under our current healthcare system, it was just 3wks for me from finding out something horrible was wrong until I was being fixed.


*Jill *- I may be a bit late to the discussion, but as others have pointed out, you have bought into a lot of propaganda (for want of a better word) with that statement. The truth - and not the propaganda - is that YES you would have likley been seen in much the same time frame or maybe even sooner - it is all on an individual case basis, after all. My best friend in Canada went to her doctor about a lump in her neck. TWO DAYS LATER she was in surgery (with a top notch surgeon) for her thyroid and had a malignant tumour removed. Only the propaganda would have you believe that she waited for weeks and weeks....

Not true.

The truth is there are good and bad hospitals/ERs everywhere - as Marty and others have related. But blanket statements/assumptions like the one you made seem to ignore that fact.

I have been "under" both systems. And I know which one worked best for me. Not the one here in WA that has emptied my bank account (and yes, I have as much insurance as I can afford) and all but guaranteed that I will never be able to retire or be secure financially. I am very glad that you are doing well now, but just because you personally will never have to face that kind of medical bill-induced financial crisis does not meant that it does not happen - and I am far from the only one in this position...


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## Jill (Jul 28, 2010)

tagalong said:


> *Jill *- I may be a bit late to the discussion, but as others have pointed out, you have bought into a lot of propaganda (for want of a better word) with that statement. The truth - and not the propaganda - is that YES you would have likley been seen in much the same time frame or maybe even sooner - it is all on an individual case basis, after all. My best friend in Canada went to her doctor about a lump in her neck. TWO DAYS LATER she was in surgery (with a top notch surgeon) for her thyroid and had a malignant tumour removed. Only the propaganda would have you believe that she waited for weeks and weeks....
> 
> Not true.
> 
> ...


Tag, with all the respect you're due, it sounds to me like you're the one who drank the kool aid (propaganda).

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who pays closer attention to the news (print, tv and radio) than I do, not to mention my life experience, and the conversations I've had with my own doctors and my clients who are medical professionals. I know there's a reason:


Most Americans on this thread have said that if you think things are bad now, just wait -- they're about to get worse.
Danny Williams, a Canadian Official, came to the USA this past February seeking heart surgery.
The majority of the American public does not favor a universal healthcare plan.
Historically people who live in nations with National / Universal healthcare who can afford to get care in the USA, come here for just that reason (just like Danny Williams).
The UK's system, the one the USA's is slated to most closely resemble, is in tremendous trouble with reports this week about about the UK planning to decentralize their system and that most basic treatment there is or will be rationed.
Those of us who have parents or close relatives covered by Medicare know about the cutbacks in Doctor reimbursement and the restrictions and hoops those covered by this socialized form of healthcare are forced to go through.

The USA currently is the source of the best healthcare in the World. Regardless of how you personally feel about it, I'm not even going to entertain a debate on that reality because I feel it's like discussing if the Easter bunny will or will not visit my house next spring. The world class status of US Healthcare is subject to charge for the worse soon. This is due to recent legislation that will result in National / Universal / Socialized care -- legislation that is widely unpopular among the American voters. The only redeeming factor if this does go into place is that currently, it is not outlined to be a single payer healthcare system like the one in Canada.


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## tagalong (Jul 28, 2010)

> Tag, with all the respect you're due, it sounds to me like you're the one who drank the kool aid (propaganda).


No *Jill* - _I have LIVED both sides of the debate._ You have not. I truly have lived what I am talking about. I am over-skeptical and over-cynical - and always have been. I never drink any of the propaganda kool-aid - no matter who is serving it or what "side" they are on. I could care less. What I do care about is the facts - and those are often hard to come by in the river of rhetoric that politicians (*all* of them) and the media make us wade through. I truly have walked the walk on both sides of this debate... and waded through that rhetoric.



> You'd be hard pressed to find someone who pays closer attention to the news (print, tv and radio) than I do, not to mention my life experience, and the conversations I've had with my own doctors and my clients who are medical professionals.


You seem to be assuming that I do not pay close attention to the media (ALL media - not just one side or one point of view) ... or that I must be ignorant about the issues.

My opinions and concerns are based on my actual experiences and those of my friends and family - including many working in the healthcare system here and in Canada. I am sorry that you discount that - and feel that my financial situation due to emergency medical bills is merely "propaganda". I am glad that you will never have to face that uncertain future. It is not a good feeling. I will respectfully suggest that you take a step back occasionally and try to see the concerns that others have expressed. _I have seen health care myths spread abut Canada that are simply untrue - and yet they are assumed to be facts._ You just assumed that no one in Canada could have been treated in the same time frame or had the same quality of care that you had. Not true, as I said. Time frames and care vary all over the place - even here. Someone in Missouri (just picking a state at random) may not have had the same level of care you had. Or even someone in VA at another facility.

The system is Canada is not perfect by any means. Nor is the system - or lack of one - here.

And I think you missed this part of my post.... I'll bold it...



> *The truth is there are good and bad hospitals/ERs everywhere*


Everywhere. Here. In Canada. In Australia. Wherever....


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## Tab (Jul 28, 2010)

I have heard more than one Canadian defending their free health care. However, our health care bill was passed without full knowledge of what it contains/entails. "We have to pass the bill to know what's in it" -Nancy Pelosi

That ought to raise a few red flags.


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## Jill (Jul 28, 2010)

Tag, as usual, I've paid as much attention to your posts as I wanted to, and I have stated my feelings as well as I am able to. If you want to continue what has become a political debate, maybe join a social networking site? You can find me on the real popular one, just like here, using my real name and my real face. You'll also find my "wall" to be full of information. You may have lived in both Canada and the USA, however, I do not think that or anything else you said indicates you are more knowledgeable regarding the topic of healthcare than I am. Just as opinionated? Probably. More informed? I doubt it.


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## tagalong (Jul 28, 2010)

*Jill* - I am not the one trying to make any of this political as you wish. Not in any way. In fact, if you were not being dismissive of my posts, concerns and experiences - you would note I did not say anything about any "side" or any specific politicians, beyond the fact that they are _all_ about the rhetoric and nothing more. I took no "side". This is about healthcare _here and now_ and nothing else.



> You may have lived in both Canada and the USA, however, I do not think that or anything else you said indicates you are more knowledgeable regarding the topic of healthcare than I am. Just as opinionated? Probably. More informed? I doubt it.


I am saying this quietly and with a sigh... have you lived under the Canadian healthcare system and had to use it or paid into it? Or your friends and family? Do you have family working in the system in both Canada and the US? No. Are you in my shoes right now thanks to health insurance companies that decide what is and is not an "emergency" ? My health insurance company is supposed to cover all emergencies. Strangely enough, a visit to the Emergency room where you are immediately admitted and placed on painkillers, MRIed, U/Sed etc. and stay in the hospital for 5 days does not count as an Emergency to them... maybe if I could have afforded very hefty premiums, then and only then would that Emergency visit have counted as an Emergency.

At least the hospital was great and the care from the staff was wonderful.






As I said, I am very glad that you have recovered and are doing well



- I just quietly suggest that perhaps you try to look at things from another point of view when it comes to this and not just assume that you know how everything _always_ works in Canada - or anywhere else, for that matter. You have not lived it. You have not used it. You have not been there, done that. I have. In three different provinces and one state. That does not make me an "expert" and I never claimed to be one - _but I can speak from personal experience_ - both mine and that of friends and family.

As I said earlier - bad hospitals exist everywhere - even here. As many posts in this thread have demonstrated.



> I have heard more than one Canadian defending their free health care


*Tab* - it is not "free". That is another myth.

***



> Danny Williams, a Canadian Official, came to the USA this past February seeking heart surgery.


Ah yes, he is always trotted out now to show that Canadians come to the US for _everything._ Only, they don't. Danny Williams is the controversial Premier of Newfoundland. The entire population of Newfoundland-Labrador is only about 500,000. He has $$$$$$. He chose to go to Miami (I think?) for a specialized heart surgery. Big deal. But now his name is waved around as a prime example of... something or other.

As always, money talks.

People who have the $$$ to do so can go _anywhere_ to get specific treatment - whether Canadian or American or any other nationality. My boss here has friends who have gone to Vancouver (Canada, not WA) and elsewhere - even France - for surgery/treatment... if you have the $$$$$$$$$$, you can pick and chose. The majority of us are not able to do that...


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## Marty (Jul 28, 2010)

How ironic, since I first posted this thread, that our local emergency room has in just shut their doors and closed down. Something about "restructurning" whatever that means.

I don't know how this turned into a politcal debate. I was just complaining about the horrible treatment we get here locally in our hospital and emergency room. I am thrilled others don't go through what we do in this small town enviorment having to "settle" for whatever care we may or may not get.

Dan had a wreck one night last year coming home in a storm. People had been turning mules and horses loose up here in the mountains and he skidded on the wet road trying to avoid hitting what he thought were two horses running in front of his truck. Turned out to be some really large deer. He went off the road, through a barbed wire cattle fence then head on into a telephone pole. Besides other injuries, he got stuck and pinned going through part of the windshield and was suffering from multiple injuries. We learned from the past not to bother to wait for the useless paramedics who stand around and watch people die doing nothing to help so Jerry took Dan to the hospital himself rather than wait for them. They took Dan into the ER and they there for six hours, basically most of the night waiting to be seen and the doctor never showed.All the nurses could do was to keep paging him and give Dan water to drink. Long story short, we ended up picking the glass out of his head, face and body ourselves and patching the rest of him up until our doctor's office opened up the next morning. I guess this is all part of the price you pay when living very rural.


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## Minimor (Jul 29, 2010)

Jill, in spite of what you think you know from a few stories told on the news and whatever other sources you choose to listen to--and obviously you do listen to those that say what you want to hear, and ignore those who say things you don't want to hear--there are many, many Canadians who could afford to go to the US for health care and yet they choose to stay here in Canada. Some choose to go south of the border, but many more do not--and those who stay here DO get quality health care.

I told my mom about this thread & she said last year when she needed her knee replacement redone she couldn't have gotten in any quicker--she waited only as long as it took to get the "parts" in from the US and then she went into hospital for her surgery. She had excellent care that time around, then when she had to go back in due to infection that required further surgery, she got back in right away. That time she stayed in 3 weeks, and again she had excellent care for the most part. In 3 weeks she did have a couple shifts of nurses that weren't wonderful, but I suspect that is something likely to be encountered in nearly any/every hospital these days, US ones as well as Canada.

Many, many of us get better care here than what some people--many people perhaps--get in the US. Yes, sometimes people have to wait quite awhile when they go into Emerg--it depends on the day and time, how many other people are there at the time and how sick one is, and how one's illness/injury compares to the ailments of the other people that are there. Patients brought in by ambulance get first priority, otherwise everyone is assessed and put on the priority list--severe bleeding gets in quick, as does a probable or obvious heart attack/stroke...broken bones will come ahead of a serious cold or simple flu...if you go in with something minor, something that could have/should have been seen at the walk-in clinic instead, you might sit there quite awhile, which is pretty much as it should be--serious ailments shouldn't have to wait for a bunch of minor ailments to be seen to.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Jul 29, 2010)

When we have had to use the emergency room, it has never been a shorter wait than a couple house. One was for a broken hand, one a stroke. And the service was fine AFTER they saw you.

And I appreciate the people who have actually lived in Canada coming on here and letting me know how the health care system is working in their country. Not just people saying the boogie man is coming to ruin our perfect system we have now.

Marty that is atrocious treatment, but not a big suprise to me. If you have a lot of money then you count. At least in the minds of the current health care system.


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## tagalong (Jul 29, 2010)

> I guess this is all part of the price you pay when living very rural.


*Marty* - that is just awful. And being rural has nothing to do with it. I have lived places where the nearest big city was a 4 hour drive away and yet the small local hospital was excellent. I wish you had better facilities/services there...


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## Jill (Jul 29, 2010)

Tag, no I'm not in your shoes and never have been. I'm in my own shoes... Ones I picked out and paid for. We ALL speak from personal experience and what we've learned from others in our lives.

Just because I do not share your opinion surely does not mean I look at things from only one point of view. I've told you what I think and why I think it as well (and as concisely) as I know how. Most of the American population feels just as I do about the situation at hand.

Marty, I don't know if you have tv, radio or newspapers in your neck of the woods? But if so, then I don't know how you could be sincerely surprised that the topic of emergency rooms and hospitals would be political at this point in time.


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 29, 2010)




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## tagalong (Jul 29, 2010)

> Tag, no I'm not in your shoes and never have been. I'm in my own shoes... Ones I picked out and paid for. We ALL speak from personal experience and what we've learned from others in our lives.


But that was my point, *Jill.* You have had NO personal experience with the Canadian system and yet you are sure that you know more about it than I do (or than anyone else does) _and know what always happens_ as you suggested when posting about your surgery. Whatever. I was not the only one who pointed out that your assumptions were incorrect. You can continue to be dismissive of me - and others - but that will not change the facts.

I bought and paid for my own shoes as well, you know.





You may be in Manolo Blahniks



and I may be in Skechers but I do the best I can.

*Lisa*, you're right.

I should not have bothered sharing any facts, concerns or experiences. That horse has had enough...._ oops - you shortened your post as I was typing!! _


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## ~Lisa~ (Jul 29, 2010)

I did Tag.. that poor horse has been beat enough and I ran out of popcorn anyway LOL


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## Jill (Jul 29, 2010)

Tag, you know "whatever". There are reasons I feel as I do, and I've laid them out pretty well. It's not an illogical point of view and it is one shared by most of the American voters.

I do know that a few of those here chomping at the bit for this "free" healthcare are in for some surprises as to what it will mean to their own pocket book if it does go into place. I know that over the years, I have just had to shake my head when on this message board, they have referenced the "fact" that they cannot afford health insurance... yet here they are as horse owners. I cannot think of a bigger, expensive, non-necessity than owning a horse.

At some point, you've just got to shrug it off when you're debating with those who just don't want to accept what to me is a basic core value and that is the importance of personal responsibility. It's one thing when you really cannot help yourself, but another when you just make the choice not to. I'm thankful I was raised to go out and get "it", vs. waiting for "it" to be given to me.

This IS a political matter and I'm not interested in carrying it on any further on LB. Feel free to find me on the real popular social networking site where, like here, I don't hide behind a fake name or cartoon picture.



Jill said:


> Tag, with all the respect you're due, it sounds to me like you're the one who drank the kool aid (propaganda).
> 
> You'd be hard pressed to find someone who pays closer attention to the news (print, tv and radio) than I do, not to mention my life experience, and the conversations I've had with my own doctors and my clients who are medical professionals. I know there's a reason:
> 
> ...


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## tagalong (Jul 29, 2010)

> At some point, you've just got to shrug it off when you're debating with those who just don't want to accept what to me is a basic core value and that is the importance of personal responsibility. It's one thing when you really cannot help yourself, but another when you just make the choice not to. I'm thankful I was raised to go out and get "it", vs. waiting for "it" to be given to me.


I have personal responsibility, thank you very much.



I do not wait for_ anything_ to be given to me and never have. I have always - _always_ - gone out and gotten "it". More assumptions on your part.

*Jill*, I love good debates and a sharing of views and opinions and finding out the facts. Especially different opinions and views that we can all learn from even if we may not agree with them. However, a good debate does not include being completely dismissive of others' opinions, making assumptions, sneering and resorting to personal slights such as this...



> Feel free to find me on the real popular social networking site where, like here, *I don't hide behind a fake name or cartoon picture*.


I do not care much for Facebook, thanks. I am on there - but only for close friends and family. I am also not HIDING behind anything. Yet another assumption on your part. I use *tagalong* all over the internet btw. An avatar is just an avatar... not anything being "hidden" as you are trying to suggest. I change the photo at times to something else fun. I guess I did not know that it was an attempt to "hide". I have explained in other threads that I do not own the farm I work on or the minis and ponies here - and even though I used to link to the website in my siggy and had the horses in my avatar from the very start of LB, I learned that was a bad idea. My opinions are mine and mine alone and not those of the farm. And when my employer was harrassed by someone here who did not care for my opinion on a very minor matter (nothing political in any way), I chose to no longer have links to the farm or feature photos of the horses. It seemed the ethical and yes, RESPONSIBLE thing to do - and I stand by that. I do not _hide_ - many here know who I am and where I work and the quality horses that come out of here... and I have posted about the horses many times and cheered them on at Nationals and Worlds. So much for "hiding". I am apparently not very good at it.





I am sorry that you were determined to make this into a political thread when very few of us were and that you then chose to make it _personal. _



If you want to continue to make it personal, please take it to PMs. I always answer them.

*Marty*, I am sorry that your thread is spiralling towards a lockdown. That poor dead horse has no more hide left by this point...


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