# Did you watch the debate last night?



## OhHorsePee (Sep 27, 2008)

Hidy ho! WOW! What a great debate that was. I absolutely loved that they showed both of their faces while the other was talking. To me that was all telling. There were moments where I laughed even. I was happy that McCain acknowledged and wished best wishes for Senator Kennedy.

My take of the debate:

* Obama *stumbled and stammered through several questions. He appeared (to me) as though he was trying hard to search for the words to say. I hope for him that his political entourage practice with him some more for the next debate. I think he did better at debating with Senator Clinton than he did with McCain.

*McCain* was very knowledgable and was able to answer quickly on questions and rebuttle to Obama. I found him to have done a fantastic job and I believe his experience shown through. In my opinion he did the better job out of the two.

Oh, McCain went back to the white house this morning to work on business while Obama went back out on the campaign trail. I really think this shows who is working for the American people and who is taking his pay check and not doing anything.


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## Jill (Sep 27, 2008)

Oh you bet Harvey and I watched






My take on it was that McCain's statements went much deeper and Obama's were more superficial. It felt like McCain came across as very knowledgeable, authoritative, and ready to lead. Obama did better than I had expected, but he did not do as well as McCain. Obama also wore some resentful expressions when McCain had the floor





And, as you said, McCain's back "to work" for the USA today (not out posturing)


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## Leeana (Sep 27, 2008)

We watched ...i only cought the first half though but i thought McCain did a wonderful job which made me very happy.


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## Bassett (Sep 27, 2008)

I watched until my Granddaughter called that she was off work and I had to go and get her. So I missed the last part. I think McCain did a much better job. Obama had many bad expressions on his face while McCain was talking that I thought was very disrespectful. Shaking his finger and interupting. Like a child. Also did you catch Obamas calling McCain "Tom" once and "Jim" once. I'm not the only one here who heard it. McCain came off as much more informed. I know they were saying McCain should be more forceful when he talks. Plain and simple he is not a loud mouth. I like him just the way he is. Now for Palin and Biden debates. That should be very interesting.


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## Minihorses101 (Sep 27, 2008)

Are you sure we all watched the same debate here???


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## Charley (Sep 27, 2008)

We watched the whole thing.

In my opinion, McCain came across much more diplomatic and ready to deal with others in foreign affairs. He was calm and pleasant during the whole debate.

Obama was repeating things that he had already said and stuttering every now and then; I guess searching for the best way of saying what he was thinking. He did make a lot of faces when McCain was speaking; reacting much more to things McCain was saying than McCain was reacting to Obama. He seemed to be frustrated at McCain being allowed to use his fair amount of time as he motioned quite often for time to cut in which he was not given until McCain was done.


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 27, 2008)

Minihorses101 said:


> Are you sure we all watched the same debate here???


Uhhh uhhhh annnnddd uhhhhh let me think uhhhh uuhhhh ummmmm YES! I hope someone does an "Uh" count on him from last night!


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 27, 2008)

Of course Republicans will say that McCain did better, people wouldn't expect any different and vice versa as well. What I found interesting was the take of people who weren't decided and their take. What was reported is very different from what the Republican think. Obama fared much better and overall I have to agree with the poll. McCain seemed like an angry man and kept not answering the questions directly but going off on tangents and of course bringing up the fact that he fought a war



as if that makes all the difference. What was nice was the moderator kept pushing both of them to answer the questions and not letting them get away with skirting issues. Overall my impression was that Obama is the better speaker by far, there is no question about that. With all the hooplah from the Replublicans in the last week I think I know which way this election is going to go and with the debate with Palin coming, after seeing her interviews which were less than stellar to say the least, I think there will be a push in the Democrat campaign. Watching Palin's interview, even though I don't particularly care for her policies or for the manner she comes across as, I felt sorry for her. I think the McCain camp fell short in preparing her for these interviews and that was totally unfair to her. She deserved better than that. Her answer about Russia was pretty bad. She is totally out of her league here, unfortunately. I thnk if McCain would have picked another running mate that he probably would have won this election with a strong and knowledgeable partner. As it is I believe that he will not be the next President of the U.S. JMHO.


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## littlestep (Sep 27, 2008)

After Obama told John McCain 8 times I agree..lets just have Obama endorse McCain and get it over with!

Oh I got a bracelet too


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## Bassett (Sep 27, 2008)

> Overall my impression was that Obama is the better speaker


Obama may be a better speaker according to some people but a good speaker does not a President make. You have to know and understand what you are talking about. And Obama had more problems expressing himself than McCain did. I think McCain won over all regardless what any polls report. I don't think you can believe polls anyway. They are all pretty much biased.

I heard a good one after the debates last night. Was said that when the 3:00 A.M. call comes Obama will only be ready if he was sleeping with Biden.



True. I think he will not be ready on his own.


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## sedeh (Sep 27, 2008)

> Obama may be a better speaker according to some people but a good speaker does not a President make.


I was just going to say the same thing!! I watched the debate and actually thought they both did a good job. Obama(even with the stuttering) is a better speaker, looks into the camera and comes across better.

I'm still voting for McCain though!! I'd much rather have his years of experience in the office than a good speaker who looks good on camera but is light on experience. You also have to remember that McCain can't be as expressive as Obama because of the injuries he suffered as a POW. He can't even lift his arms properly.


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## littlestep (Sep 27, 2008)

I wonder how many on here picked up on the LIES? Oh they where smoothly delivered..But still LIES!

Al Qaeda Stronger - LIE

Iraq War long and drawn out - LIE, The Iraq war was over in two weeks. We are fighting Al Qaeda and other terrorists in Iraq.

I support nuclear power - LIE

And these are off the top of my head


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 27, 2008)

I can certainly understand those voting for McCain is you are extremely conservative. He will appeal to many for that. Even though I of course can not vote what totally turns me off is his focus on "war" and foreign policy. As many have said (reporters and senators) the image of the U.S. in the world is at an all time low because of Bush. Without the "respect" of the international community the U.S. will have to "watch it's back" constantly because there are so many, what I call crazy" leaders around such as the President of Iran and in south america as well, etc. If these policies don't change the Americans can probably expect more possible wars at home, that is a worry as well. The other reason I don't like McCain is the continued Bush policy with regards to big business. The poor will keep getting poorer, the middle class will fund everytghing and big business will keep making huge profits to the detriment of those that support their corrupt ways. Of course they are allowed to make a profit but not to this point where the government has to step in and reward them for what they have done. These big CEOs, I have no idea how they sleep at night when they take these buy out packages that are ridiculous amounts when the government bails them out. Shame on them.


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## littlestep (Sep 27, 2008)

Danielle_E. said:


> I can certainly understand those voting for McCain is you are extremely conservative. He will appeal to many for that. Even though I of course can not vote what totally turns me off is his focus on "war" and foreign policy. As many have said (reporters and senators) the image of the U.S. in the world is at an all time low because of Bush. Without the "respect" of the international community the U.S. will have to "watch it's back" constantly because there are so many, what I call crazy" leaders around such as the President of Iran and in south america as well, etc. If these policies don't change the Americans can probably expect more possible wars at home, that is a worry as well. The other reason I don't like McCain is the continued Bush policy with regards to big business. The poor will keep getting poorer, the middle class will fund everytghing and big business will keep making huge profits to the detriment of those that support their corrupt ways. Of course they are allowed to make a profit but not to this point where the government has to step in and reward them for what they have done. These big CEOs, I have no idea how they sleep at night when they take these buy out packages that are ridiculous amounts when the government bails them out. Shame on them.


The poor will have a FAIR chance of bettering themselfes by getting a job..much better than giving them loans and houses they CAN NOT PAY


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 27, 2008)

I agree Danielle! People who like Obama think he did great like I do. Sad that because he is trying to give respect to McCain and point out where he thinks he has a good idea, all people can say is he just agreed with him. He will have to be ruder next time and stoop to McCain level.


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## littlestep (Sep 27, 2008)

GIVE respect..??? OMG..so why did he repeatly called him by his first name?? I bet SENATOR McCain did not play with him in the sandbox!


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 27, 2008)

Well you know they probably do normally call each other by their names Christine. They work together as Senators.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 27, 2008)

Interesting that, at least last I checked, Obama led McCain in public opinion over 'who won' the debates. MSNBC shows 34% for McCain and 52% for Obama, with the remaining votes split between "tie" and "not sure".

Personally I didn't think it was that thrilling a debate and IMO, there was no clear winner. I do think that both candidates performed well, but there was nothing new, nothing compelling for either candidate.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 27, 2008)

FactCheck.org posted some corrections about the debate along with some analysis, if folks are interested: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/fa...ebate_no_1.html


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## Yaddax3 (Sep 27, 2008)

These big CEOs, I have no idea how they sleep at night when they take these buy out packages that are ridiculous amounts when the government bails them out. Shame on them. By the way, three of Obama's advisers -- one headed his vice president search -- took nearly $150 million in golden parachute money from Fannie Mae. (Two are former Fannie Mae CEO's and the third is a former top exec at Fannie Mae.)


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## horsehug (Sep 27, 2008)

All of that was very interesting, Lowrise Miins. Thanks for the link.

Susan O.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 27, 2008)

Crabby-Chicken said:


> I agree Danielle! People who like Obama think he did great like I do. Sad that because he is trying to give respect to McCain and point out where he thinks he has a good idea, all people can say is he just agreed with him. He will have to be ruder next time and stoop to McCain level.


I don't agree that he should stoop to McCain's level of attack. I was watching on CNN and they had for those of us with HD television sets a really neat feature where the group of people they had (republicans, democrats and undecided) giving of their opinions during the debate and when each candidate spoke whether a thumbs up or down as to what was being said. When McCain came out with attacks and lies the meter went way low. People aren't interested any more with the mud slinging style. Also when McCain went on a tangent and started in again on his records as a war vet the approval rate on the meter went down. It had absolutely nothing to do with what was being asked. People are more intelligent than that. It was okay to mention it early in the campaign but now the people, whatever party you are for want some real answers on the issues and that's a good thing. I think Obama looked good by not pouncing as much as McCain. I found Obama has class, intelligent answers and more centered on the issues without having to resort to attacking the other candidate. That aggresive style of talk won't help in the foreign policy arena. You need srong but you also need some decorum and diplomacy. McCain's style reminds me of Bush, alot, and that is not a good thing for the U.S. on the international front, not if the U.S. wants the respect back as a superpower. If you antagonize other countries before trying to reason with them, it won't be good for the U.S's image or for security of the people. JMHO. Take for example McCain's earlier statement that Spain was a rogue state, hello??? Spain a rogue state??????????????????????????? He said because they wouldn't help in Iraq. That statement is so ludicrous and I don't blame the Spaniards to be really upset about it. Just because a country decides not to follow the U.S. doesn't make them a "rogue state". He went overboard and statements like that are not a good thing for anyone. Fear mongering is not what is needed. We have enough of that coming out of the middleast. We don't want to lower ourselves to those tactics.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 27, 2008)

Yaddax3 said:


> These big CEOs, I have no idea how they sleep at night when they take these buy out packages that are ridiculous amounts when the government bails them out. Shame on them. By the way, three of Obama's advisers -- one headed his vice president search -- took nearly $150 million in golden parachute money from Fannie Mae. (Two are former Fannie Mae CEO's and the third is a former top exec at Fannie Mae.)


I think if you look into the other side you will find similar kind of things as well, What you should be looking at, either side, whether Obama or McCain got direct money into their personal accounts. Obama and McCain are both for a deal (bailout). One is the same as the other on this issue. I have to say I agree, if it's not done then forget recession for the U.S. and say hello to "depression" and it won't be just the U.S. You will be taking the world with you, hence the reason that governments around the world are for this bailout. We all have something to lose. You are willing though to spend $10 million $$ a day for a war that you will never win. I don't care if McCain says we will have victory. That is garbage. Nobody "wins" in a war like this. Look at Vietnam. So keep spending the $10 million a day but keep opposing the bailout which if not done will hurt each and everyone of you for decades. All the analysts have said the same, "we have no choice". I understand that you are all angry and rightly so!!!! But not doing this bailout would be much worse than going ahead with it. The only thing now is to make sure that this NEVER happens ever ever again and make policies and regulations that will make this impossible to happen again.


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## bingo (Sep 27, 2008)

Minihorses101 said:


> Are you sure we all watched the same debate here???


My thoughts as well. Although of course everyone sees what they WANT TO SEE.

I was very impressed with Obama and he firmly cemented my vote as he is and plans to take our Country where I feel it should go. After all the talk on here how other countries have no say nor no need to be in our buisness when it comes to our election I am glad someone sees that for the US to continue to be thought of as a super power country we need to get back some of the respect we have lost the past 8 years.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 27, 2008)

Danielle-the bailout WILL go through, even with public opinion against it. I don't like it either, but you are right. At this point it pretty much has to pass.


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## Yaddax3 (Sep 27, 2008)

What you should be looking at, either side, whether Obama or McCain got direct money into their personal accounts. Should you just look at personal accounts? After Christopher Dodd, Obama received more money from Fannie Mae than anyone else in the Senate.

And I like Obama. I also like it when the truth gets out.


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## Charley (Sep 27, 2008)

Well, we have been spoonfed that the bailout is a given. Being led again by the media....

I just don't get why the people who have caused this and supported this and made a living by this, are being allowed to keep their jobs. That to me is wrong.

Why can't the problem be lessened for the lenders by setting up a program to help the ones going into default on loans. I think there might be fewer hands in the pot that way and let it trickle down to the lenders rather than buying the bad loans.

Just me....it doesn't sound right with all this rush rush.


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## susanne (Sep 27, 2008)

Sadly, Yaddox, the truth has been rare in any of the political discussions here on this forum.

I love intelligent, fact-based discussions, which is why, for the most part, I've not participated lately on the Back Porch.

However, since I'm here, I will say that for anyone to suggest that Obama is less than intelligent while they support Bush is ludicrous.


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## Bassett (Sep 27, 2008)

> I will say that for anyone to suggest that Obama is less than intelligent while they support Bush is ludicrous.


Huh????????????????????? This in itself is a ridiculous statement.


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## Jill (Sep 27, 2008)

Not speaking to *intelligence* as I think Obama is one sly something else, though I do wonder if some of his proclaimed supporters are really smart enough to deserve a vote... how about *INTEGRITY* when it comes to Barack Hussein Obama???

Bill Ayers (current friend / former terrorist), Jeremiah Wright (personal mentor of 20 years / anti-American racist), Acorn (shady leftist group guilty of voter fraud and recipient of significant gov't handouts).

I do not understand how anyone can be behind a man who requires so much explaination and attempts at justification??? You don't hear us explaining away shameful things about McCain yet look at all the baggage that is part of Obama!!!


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## Southern_Heart (Sep 27, 2008)

Yep! I not only watched it but I taped it.

Obama did not win... Mc Cain did






Do a real poll, like Fox News did. They got more than 90,000 responses by text message, and Obama got 14% to McCains 86% on who won the debate. I saw this on Fox News this morning at about 7:30 AM.

McCain knew all the answers, while Obama gasps at straws to find the answers and even then he didn't know McCains name and gosh he got a bracelate too but didn't know from who.





I loved it when McCain kept saying,"What Obama doesn't understand." He said that many times. Obama just showed that he was mad to many times and spoke loud like he was talking to unruley kids and also sounded like he was preaching!!! Not a good thing.





McCain spoke in a nice soft voice and never got upset and told how he saw things. McCain was awesome!!

If we have Obama as Pres. Then he will surely get a war going on our home land. Something that McCain wants to keep over seas.

911 was just a very small example of how it could be if Obama gets in. I think Obama is throwing caution to the wind and will get the United States in trouble. I for sure don't want a war on our land.



But if Obama gets to be president, *Be scared... be very scared.*


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 27, 2008)

Jill, I have a quetion for you. A yes or no answer please. Is Obama a terrorist? Is McCain part of the mafia? Are you aware of the links to the mafia that McCain's wife's father has? It would be a ludicrous for me to say because of those facts that McCain is part of the mafia.



. These kinds of inuendos doesn't help in focusing on what really matters or perhaps you really don't care about the issues? Can you tell me what issues are important to you in this election? or is a republican thing to go for the mud slinging and hope that some of it sticks?

There is mud slinging in our election happening here too, by the conservatives towards the liberals and other parties. It's a real turn off for me when looking at candidates. All candidates have skeletons in their closest. One is no better than an another in that department, as far as I am concerned. Many things have come out about McCain as well but you tend to not acknowledge it but come back with some about Obama. That gets neither side anywhere nor is it productive but I guess when you feel threatened or feel that you are losing ground, desperate measures are warranted?

Being that I work for the Canadian government I basically live politics every day



which can be a real pain, lol.

Well, I am off to dinner, my eldest son turned 31 today BOY, do I feel OLD, lol.


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## AppyLover2 (Sep 27, 2008)

I don't think it's any secret that I plan to vote for McCain.....However I voted (on another thread) that neither won the debate. I was more impressed with Obama than I expected to be - not that it changes my mind. I just don't feel with all the problems we're facing right now that on-the-job training would be a good thing, and nothing anyone says will change my mind about his association with his "spiritual leader".


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 27, 2008)

IMO, any poll that allows anyone to vote ten times is not a 'real poll'.


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## tagalong (Sep 28, 2008)

An actual poll only allows you to vote once....

*Jill* - the guilt by association nonsense works both ways - as I said in another thread. And yet you keep dwelling on that kind of stuff when there are actual issues out there. Is Obama a Muslin? NO. No matter what the latest stir-the-pot email tries to tell you.

I did watch the debate... thought Obama came out slightly ahead. We'll see how the next one goes.

But after watching Sarah Palin fumble her way through her interview with Katie Couric... I am aghast. She is in waaaay over her head. She sounded like that Miss South Carolina who fumbled her way through a pageant question last year... returning to key phrases... saying a lot of nothing...

I felt sorry for her.


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## Jill (Sep 28, 2008)

Tag and Danielle --

You can keep asking me all the questions about our politics that you want, but please realize that I'm not reading the questions more than a skim if I happen to notice my name.

As you both know, I've said repeatedly that I will not debate our US elections with people who:

1. are not US Citizens

2. do not know what it feels like to be a US Citizen, and

3. are not eligible to vote in our election

Additionally, I'm not the only one annoyed that some people who are not US citizens are so adamant and pushy about who they think we should elect.

I appreciate both of you, your input on other matters. and do like you both -- but I feel as I have repeatedly said I do when it comes to the US elections. Right or wrong, understandable to all or not, this is sincerely how I feel and what I decided some time ago.

Jill


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## bingo (Sep 28, 2008)

Jill said:


> and 3. are not eligible to vote in our election
> 
> Additionally, I'm not the only one annoyed that some people who are not US citizens are so adamant and pushy about who they think we should elect.
> 
> Jill


And I am not the only one annoyed that you should be so outright rude to others in other countries and about as short sighted as McCain on how the world views us and where that puts us as a power country.

It is your right to be that way for sure and you can be as proud of it as you like. It is my right to say have no issues with them adding into our discussion and that their views are important to me. Thankfully my candidate realizes the need to earn back the respect of other countries if we want to ever be considered a power player again!


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## Jill (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm sorry but I just do not care what people who are not US Citizens and eligible to vote in our election think about our politics enough to personally debate it with them. They cannot have the same perspective as a US citizen and their media is even more biased than our own. They cannot possibly care about it as deeply as someone who is a citizen of this Nation does. It's beyond me why "you" would think I'd care to debate US politics with people who are not qualified to cast a vote in the election.

There's a reason only US Citizens get a say on November 4. It doesn't matter to me if you think that my position is rude. It's funny that those who think it's rude already know what I'll say because I've said it to them a number of times before. If you don't want to be offended by my opinion, stop digging for it and/or give it as much weight as I give yours on this specific subject.

To be perfectly clear, I've never said "they" should not participate in these discussions, only that I am personally not going to debate them. They are free to say anything they want, but I'm also free to not get into a discussion about US politics with them, no matter how many times they call me out to try and do so.


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## bingo (Sep 28, 2008)

Jill said:


> If you don't want to be offended by my opinion, stop digging for it and/or give it as much weight as I give yours on this specific subject.


On this subject I do just that!


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## Jill (Sep 28, 2008)

Thank you


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 28, 2008)

Jill said:


> As you both know, I've said repeatedly that I will not debate our US elections with people who:
> 1. are not US Citizens
> 
> 2. do not know what it feels like to be a US Citizen, and
> ...


Attitudes like THAT are part of the reason America's place in the world is slipping away, IMO. I still love what Obama closed with in the debates.

" OBAMA: Well, let me just make a closing point. You know, my father came from Kenya. That's where I get my name.

And in the '60s, he wrote letter after letter to come to college here in the United States because the notion was that there was no other country on Earth where you could make it if you tried. The ideals and the values of the United States inspired the entire world.

I don't think any of us can say that our standing in the world now, the way children around the world look at the United States, is the same.

And part of what we need to do, what the next president has to do -- and this is part of our judgment, this is part of how we're going to keep America safe -- is to -- to send a message to the world that we are going to invest in issues like education, we are going to invest in issues that -- that relate to how ordinary people are able to live out their dreams.

And that is something that I'm going to be committed to as president of the United States."


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## Pepipony (Sep 28, 2008)

Hmmm isnt it rather hypocritical to state you hold no ones opinion of US politics any value, that isnt a US citizen, but then agree with the invasion of another country to oust its Dictator when that countries citizens didnt ask for it? Do as I say, not as I do?


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## tagalong (Sep 28, 2008)

> Additionally, I'm not the only one annoyed that some people who are not US citizens are so adamant and pushy about who they think we should elect.


*Jill* - where have I _ever_ been "adamant and pushy" about who you should elect? Nowhere. You even get adamant and pushy with US citizens who you do not agree with - and even laugh and sneer at them - so I confess that your comment above confuses me a bit...

The sneering gets to be a bit much - but whatever. I guarantee you that I take far more interest in what is going on and am far more concerned than any of the people I see on a day to day basis - many of whom are not even going to bother to vote.

I have debated assorted points. I have agreed with points on both sides at times - even though I lean left. I find fault with both sides for the sheer _waste_ of millions of dollars spent on campaigns that drag out and take far too long. I take issue with both hides for the pointless grandstanding and show boating that occurs...

I mainly try to provide facts (NOT from any partisan sources) to counterbalance many of the ridiculous viral emails that so many believe without checking into at all.... or the "facts" that some continue to push in these threads that are anything but - no matter what side they are on.

You might see all that if you did not summarily and haughtily dismiss the input of others and just "skim"...

No one is trying to "call you out" for a debate - they are just making their own observations and offering their opinions.

Which again, you would know if you were not so dismissive...

Not once have I told _anyone_ who to vote for. Not. Once.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 28, 2008)

tagalong said:


> > Additionally, I'm not the only one annoyed that some people who are not US citizens are so adamant and pushy about who they think we should elect.
> 
> 
> *Jill* - where have I ever been adamant and pushy about who you should elect? Nowhere. You even get adamant and pushy at US citisens who you do not agree with - so I confess that your comment above confused me a bit... :


By continuing to have an opinion, you're being adamant and pushy. Much like I'm 'out of control' for posting links and defending my positions.


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## susanne (Sep 28, 2008)

When we are so bold as to call our president the "leader of the free world," why wouldn't citizens of other countries (especially those better informed on the issues than most US citizens) have strong opinions on whom we elect?

Lisa, if you think I'm rude, you may want to re-read recent posts by members of your claque.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 28, 2008)

> Additionally, I'm not the only one annoyed that some people who are not US citizens are so adamant and pushy about who they think we should elect.



Hmmm I haven't seen anyone that is voting for Obama said such things.


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## Bassett (Sep 28, 2008)

> By continuing to have an opinion, you're being adamant and pushy..


Wait a minute. You are saying Jill is pushy and adamant because she continues to have an opinion.



How ridiculous is that statement. All the opinions you have tried to push off on people here trying to get your point across. You are just trying to get all the dirt you can. Get people riled up. Yeah it's working. Like I said before you are looking through a two way mirror. Can only see things one way. I think some of you young people should listen a little closer to someone like Jill. (Not that Jill is old) She is very well informed. She's done her work. Jill is successful because she has worked very hard to get where she is. Why should she have it taken away and have her hard earned money given to someone who doesn't work? Also I know the younger people who are about to vote for the 1-2 time do NOT remember some of the years when the Democrats were in. If you want rights taken away go ahead and vote for Obama. Granted the Republicans have done things not quite right either in my opinion but for all purposes the Republicans will look after us better as working people. I'm retired so I probably won't have to pay taxes this year. My income is very low but I sure would hate to have my children and grandchildren suffer because Obama put his ideas into order. What good is a tax break for 95% of the working people (btw it started out 95% of the people) (40% don't pay taxes, so he had to change it to "working" people. What good is it if there are no jobs because businesses will be forced to close or cut back under his administration. You wait, as an older voter, Things will not get better if Obama wins. No matter who wins it is going to take a lot of time and effort but I just don't think Obama can do it. Like they said when that 3:00A.m. call comes Obama better be sleeping with Biden. He won't be able to handle it. Probably push the snooze and go back to sleep. Sorry for the rant but some people ask for it.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 28, 2008)

Okay, let's go through this point by point.



> Wait a minute. You are saying Jill is pushy and adamant because she continues to have an opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> How ridiculous is that statement.


 Actually, that entirely sarcastic comment was directed at Tagalong, after Jill decided to say 'pushy and adamant', and Tag wanted to know how/why she was being pushy and adamant.



> All the opinions you have tried to push off on people here trying to get your point across. You are just trying to get all the dirt you can.


 I wasn't aware that facts=dirt. As far as I know, I haven't posted anything that wasn't factual. I could be wrong, and I'm happy to go back and make corrections if need be. I see a great deal of people posting things about Obama, some of which aren't true. In those cases I am happy to defend my candidate by posting the truth, and in other cases I work to point out the double standard that seems to be ongoing because McCain's past isn't squeaky clean, either.



> Why should she have it taken away and have her hard earned money given to someone who doesn't work?


 Oversimplification. I pay taxes, too. Most (all?) Americans, in some way or another, pay taxes. At the gas pump, at the store, out of their paychecks or in April. These taxes keep our roads in repair, support our schools, our troops, and people who 'don't work' because they've been laid off, because of disability or other hardships. Even if we remove 'people who don't work' from the equation, our nation NEEDS taxes to keep itself going. And personally, why would you want to remove people from this equation? I don't. Is there welfare fraud? You bet. Do we need reform? YES, bring it on! But I would rather see $100,000 of taxes go to welfare, know that $90,000 of it was wasted on people who don't need it, but know that $10,000 went to someone who would be without a place to live or a way to feed their children without it.



> Also I know the younger people who are about to vote for the 1-2 time do NOT remember some of the years when the Democrats were in.


 I wasn't aware that a person needed to have lived through or have certain memories in order to vote. I was under the impression that anyone 18 or older was allowed to. I also wasn't aware that we have no video, no books, nothing to remind us of the way things were under assorted administrations. For the record, I remember a bit of Bush Sr's time in office, as well as the Clinton administration.

The rest? Have you looked into Obama's plans for the nation at all? What he plans to do for taxes, small business, American business?

What good is having businesses going to do if no one can AFFORD to buy anything?


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## Bassett (Sep 28, 2008)

> Even if we remove 'people who don't work' from the equation, our nation NEEDS taxes to keep itself going. And personally, why would you want to remove people from this equation?


I didn't remove it. Obama did ( or someone who finally figured out how stupid it sounded.) because what he was saying was he was going to cut taxes for 95% of the people. NOT possible because 40% don't pay taxes.

Just turn on the fox channel for a while and really listen to it. You will learn a lot.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 28, 2008)

Basset-I meant people who receive welfare benefits, which you seem to object to giving help to.

I don't see why Fox News is different from any other news source. They're all biased, and I watch very little TV news anyway.


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## Jill (Sep 28, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Also.. I would like to make a prediction.. If I am wrong.. so be it and will be the first to apologize for thinking this way.. I predict that Sara P. will resign from the campaign soon..


Why would you think that's going to happen?


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 28, 2008)

Jill, since I am Canadian you can ignore my comments as I know nothing.

I agree Mary Lou. It would be the best thing for the republican campaign if she did based on the 3 interviews I watched. I felt sorry for her, even though I don't particularly care for her. I think that the McCain group should be ashamed to not have prepared her better for those interviews. They had to know what the media was going to put her through but her answers to some of the question not only made her look less than stellar and made her look not qualified at all in the foreign policy portfolio. I think if McCain could have talked Condi into being his running mate I think the republicans would have won by a landslide. JMHO.


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 28, 2008)

Mary Lou, I have been thinking along the same lines as your prediction since listening to Palin. She may be a nice person but she sure does not maake herself look very knowledgeable. It is an awful thought to think she very well could end up our President if by some weird happening Mcain gets the Presidency.



Mary Lou - LB said:


> I am really trying to stay out of all this but as an American living 30 years out of my country.. the love and respect of the U.S. from other countries has severly plummeted in the last 8 years.. But please keep in mind that they still love the American people.. just not it's politics and war-mongering..
> Also.. I would like to make a prediction.. If I am wrong.. so be it and will be the first to apologize for thinking this way.. I predict that Sara P. will resign from the campaign soon..


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## bingo (Sep 28, 2008)

Bassett said:


> I think some of you young people should listen a little closer to someone like Jill. (Not that Jill is old) She is very well informed. She's done her work. Jill is successful because she has worked very hard to get where she is. Why should she have it taken away and have her hard earned money given to someone who doesn't work?


Are you implying Jill or McCain supporters are the only successful people here on this forum? If so let me be the first to tell you that you are sadly and completely mistaken. I know of many on this forum more successful then Jill from her own many accounts of her tax bracket. Many small businesses owners. The difference is perhaps they are actually out there working rather then repeating themselves to the point of silliness on these threads. Not everyone feels the need to throw out their tax bracket or repeat their opinions over and over.

Mary Lou I have actually heard that same prediction from others in the past 24 hours as well.


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## Jill (Sep 28, 2008)

bingo said:


> Are you implying Jill or McCain supporters are the only successful people here on this forum? If so let me be the first to tell you that you are sadly and completely mistaken. I know of many on this forum more successful then Jill from her own many accounts of her tax bracket. Many small businesses owners. The difference is perhaps they are actually out there working rather then repeating themselves to the point of silliness on these threads. Not everyone feels the need to throw out their tax bracket or repeat their opinions over and over.


Bingo, I did catch what you just said... do you seriously want to compare 1099's? Or reflect upon who earns a higher income than I do? Oh... My... Gosh OH!


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## bingo (Sep 28, 2008)

Jill I have no need to compare anything with anyone. I am well aware of what assets I have. I am sure most who are making good money do not feel the need to post on a public miniature horse forum what tax bracket they are in either. No one should have to agree with your political choice simply due to the fact they feel you are or are not successful or are older then others as Basset implied.

My point is simply that nothing more nothing less.


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## Bassett (Sep 28, 2008)

> I know of many on this forum more successful then Jill from her own many accounts of her tax bracket. Many small businesses owners.


They also should NOT have to give their hard earned money away. Believe me I have been in more than one business and everyone is after your money if they think you are making it.


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## Bassett (Sep 28, 2008)

> No one should have to agree with your political choice simply due to the fact they feel you are or are not successful or are older then others as Basset implied.


I SAID Jill has done her work I SAID not that Jill is old. I SAID some of you younger people should pay more attention to someone older (lots of us are older than you) OR someone like Jill who has done her work, meaning on politics.

Sorry Jill, I didn't mean to get you hollered at.


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## Shaladar (Sep 28, 2008)

My first input into this thread.(or any of these political threads)

Bonnie (Bassett), I completely agree with you with your earlier post. I remember well.

And on one thread, not sure which one, it was said that California is a Democratic state. I suppose it is....but, Most of the people I know, myself included, are Republicans. My 33 yr. old daughter who lives in Southern California, (Santa Clarita) and most of her many friends are also Republicans, or Voting McCain. Just wanted to make the point that not everyone in Calif. will be voting Obama.

I have enjoyed these threads, actually learned quite a bit.

And I am afraid of what will happen should Obama win........ on many levels.

In these times that we are in, we need someone who has been around the block a few times.

of course, JMO.

Sue


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 28, 2008)

I checked the other night and I forgot the exact number, but most of our California governors for the last 100 years have also been Republican.


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## susanne (Sep 28, 2008)

Bassett said:


> I think some of you young people should listen a little closer to someone like Jill.


[sound of hysterical laughter]

Thanks, Bonnie! I'm sure Kim (who is much younger than I) is also snickering at your comment. Talk about assumptions!

I suppose, though, that I really should listen to my elders, such as Jill...

signed,

The Old Fart, susanne


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## garyo (Sep 28, 2008)

My goodness, what a turn for the worst this thread has taken.

All W-2s, 1099's, whether your small buisness is a C-corp, S-corp, or LLC. will be due by this time tomorrow.




LOL

I would guess to truly discuss impact of any tax proposal on small business it would first be necessary to determine what constitutes a small business. Is it the one man sub contract construction worker, the

200 employee grocery chain, or somewhere in between? Or is it defined by the gross revenue ?

I have not seen either candidate discuss tax proposals in such detail as to truly ascertain the ramifications of said proposals.

I believe that our current tax code is so complex that few, if any, lay persons, (by that i mean those other than experts in a given area of tax law) can intelligently discuss the effects of tax laws on individuals and their business. We all know that whoever is elected their tax changes will probably not become law in their current state, as changes, add-ons, and the like will be necessary to get the bill to pass the house and senate.

For the life of me I can't understand how either candidate can promise tax cuts. Someone at some time

is going to have to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the massive bailout bill, and the now huge

national debt. I guess it takes bigger minds then mine, so ladies have at it.

Gary


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## Jill (Sep 28, 2008)

Bonnie --

You didn't do anything wrong and I know you didn't mean for people to jump at a chance to talk about my personal finances. Talk about personal and inappropriate n the part of that poster.

Jill


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## bingo (Sep 28, 2008)

Jill said:


> Bonnie --
> You didn't do anything wrong and I know you didn't mean for people to jump at a chance to talk about my personal finances. Talk about personal and inappropriate n the part of that poster.
> 
> Jill


Not inappropriate at all when someone brings up how we should make sure to listen to*agree with* you due to your age and wisdom and financial status in the business world.

I did not bring it up out of the blue it was presented to us as part of this discussion.


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## Bassett (Sep 28, 2008)

Sorry Hon, Jill is not your elder BUT I am.


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## AppyLover2 (Sep 28, 2008)

> My goodness, what a turn for the worst this thread has taken.


I couldn't agree more. I've participated in several of these "debates" and some have been pretty pointed...but you folks are being just plain vicious.



Please take a deep breath and remember that this is a miniature horse forum where we consider one another "family" and that most of us visit on a regular basis. It certainly isn't one in which we should be calling one another names which we may later regret. Quite a few of the things that are being said are perfect examples of the pot calling the kettle black.


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## Bassett (Sep 28, 2008)

> Not inappropriate at all when someone brings up how we should make sure to listen to*agree with* you due to your age and wisdom and financial status in the business world.


You have sure taken this out of context. I did not say you had to AGREE. I said just listen to what she has to say. And THINK about it. Look at both sides of the picture.


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## susanne (Sep 28, 2008)

This is wonderful, for once, to brag how old I am, in years if not in attitude.

I'm 50 and proud of it (type I diabetes has made reaching this age an accomplishment).

I would not be proud if I were ever to change over to the politics of I Got Mine (grammatical error intended), but iff I follow the example of my 85-year-old mother, who gave up on the GOP (Greed and Oil Party) to become a staunch Democrat years ago, I should be safe from the dark side.

But I'd better go back to ignoring these threads before I really speak my mind. As I said, my preference is for intelligent, fact-based political discussion.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 28, 2008)

> Look at both sides of the picture.


BINGO!

And that IS the problem - the ones asking for this aren't willing to do the same, hence the reason for the friction in the threads. Don't do as I do, do as I say and if you don't....... and now back to our original programming, lol.


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## Bassett (Sep 28, 2008)

> fact-based political discussion.


Lots of that on here from both sides.


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## Bassett (Sep 28, 2008)

> And that IS the problem - the ones asking for this aren't willing to do the same,


My point exactly. Most of us do.


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