# BITS



## Knighthawke (Jul 4, 2010)

I have a mare that is constantly trying to put her tongue over the bit.

I tried a Kelly bit with a port to try to prevent it but she fought so much with the port. She bruised the side of her tongue.

I finally got a straight Mullen mouth with copper mouth piece and she seems to be going ok with that for now.

But I am afraid when I take her out of the arena I might need a little more bit because she is a very forward mare.

I would like to know if anyone has a horse with this problem and what did you use?

I was thinking of a bitless bridle but it is so expensive to buy one and then find out she doesnt like it. Let alone to show I will need to get her back in a bit.

Barb


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## jleonard (Jul 4, 2010)

I love french links, five of my eight horses go in french links and do very well in them. I loaned one to a man driving a mini donkey a few weeks ago who was having a horrible time with the donkey putting it's tongue over the bit, they couldn't go more than a few steps before having to stop to fix it. Once he had the FL in he stopped doing it all together. Before he'd had a plain snaffle, which the donkey didn't seem to like.

There are many options for cheek pieces, all of which have a different purpose. I use a butterfly cheek piece on my minis, you can drive on the snaffle ring, or drop the reins to the lower ring for when they get stronger. Although not a true leverge bit, it does give some poll pressure, which works better on some horses than just pressure on the bars of the mouth.


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## Knighthawke (Jul 4, 2010)

Where did you get you french links?


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## Mominis (Jul 4, 2010)

I also dearly love a french link snaffle. But, if I had a horse that put the tongue over habitually, I'd go back to a mouthing snaffle with keys to break the habit and then switch over to the french link. Just MHO.


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## Sue_C. (Jul 4, 2010)

> I also dearly love a french link snaffle. But, if I had a horse that put the tongue over habitually, I'd go back to a mouthing snaffle with keys to break the habit and then switch over to the french link.


If you can find a 3.50" mouthing snaffle with keys...WHERE DID YOU GET IT???



> I use a butterfly cheek piece on my minis, you can drive on the snaffle ring, or drop the reins to the lower ring for when they get stronger. Although not a true leverge bit, it does give some poll pressure, which works better on some horses than just pressure on the bars of the mouth.


That is exactly the bit the mare in my avatar wears, with a french link mouthpiece, and she is the MOST difficult to fit horse. In any other bit she will flop, slop, and gape, but as soon as this is in her face...she almost hums she is so happy with it. My other most favourite bit is my comfort Myler with the sweet iron mouthpiece.

I have been happy with bits from Chimacum, MIni Express, and this french link butterfly, I got at Iowa Valley. If you are showing AMHR, however, I don't think you can use the butterfly, as they don't allow leverage bits, no matter the rein setting...too bad. But, the mare that wears the butterfly, will also happily wear a half cheek french link as well, so that you could try.


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## RhineStone (Jul 4, 2010)

What is the conformation of the mare's mouth? That will actually help determine what kind of bit she may like. By conformation, we mean shallow or high palate, thick or thinner tongue, fleshy or thin lips, etc.

And yes, it is a crock that AMHR doesn't allow leverage bits. IMO, that just shows ignorance on their part. The designs of some horses' mouths constitute leverage bits, although I also know there are a whole lot of mini owners out their that would use one for "control" instead of logical fitting and training.






Myrna


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## Sue_C. (Jul 4, 2010)

> there are a whole lot of mini owners out their that would use one for "control" instead of logical fitting and training


OMG-yes! I can just imagine the poor horses with those ingnorant types. Leverage bit on leverage position, drop noseband, check cranked to maximum "effect", and a martingale to keep the poor horse from being able to move it's head in any direction to get away from the constant pain. Oh yes, and of course, the wrap straps winched in so hard that the horse is both pulling and backing (of course, sans breeching) with the back saddle and girth.

Give me strength...


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## rcfarm (Jul 5, 2010)

I have a pony mare that does that. I have her in a Myler med port, and put a drop nose band(not tight ) on her. I do not show breed shows, but she is going to be in some driving classes and maybe some CDE.

Wish I could try the mouthing bit with keys. I have not found one.

I do use the french link on my B mare she goes well with this bit.

My gelding is in a Myler bit, he is very forward, works alright.( Myler level 1) , but thinking he needs something different.


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## Mominis (Jul 5, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> If you can find a 3.50" mouthing snaffle with keys...WHERE DID YOU GET IT???



I haven't bought my mini one yet (I spent my cash on a new horse, lol), but Iowa Valley said that they can make one custom and quite reasonably. Getting it is high on my list. The one I have onhand now is a 4.5" and it's left over from the big horses.


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## Sue_C. (Jul 5, 2010)

Mominis said:


> I haven't bought my mini one yet (I spent my cash on a new horse, lol), but Iowa Valley said that they can make one custom and quite reasonably. Getting it is high on my list. The one I have onhand now is a 4.5" and it's left over from the big horses.



When you do get it, I would love to see a picture of it and know the "damage". ($$$)





MY NAME IS SUE, AND I AM A BIT-A-HOLIC...


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 5, 2010)

Knighthawke said:


> But I am afraid when I take her out of the arena I might need a little more bit because she is a very forward mare.
> I was thinking of a bitless bridle but it is so expensive to buy one and then find out she doesnt like it. Let alone to show I will need to get her back in a bit.


If you're concerned you might need more bit, I would NOT switch to a bitless bridle! That's moving the opposite direction.



It's easier to keep a show horse in a legal bit full-time and learn the rein handling and energy regulation skills needed to slow a strong horse. It isn't easy when they're jigging and bowing their necks and you're scared, but it's possible. Just keep them moving forward and let them work it out. Stay calm and centered yourself and be patient- they'll relax eventually and you can reward them when they do.



RhineStone said:


> And yes, it is a crock that AMHR doesn't allow leverage bits. IMO, that just shows ignorance on their part. The designs of some horses' mouths constitute leverage bits, although I also know there are a whole lot of mini owners out their that would use one for "control" instead of logical fitting and training.





Sue_C. said:


> OMG-yes! I can just imagine the poor horses with those ingnorant types. Leverage bit on leverage position, drop noseband, check cranked to maximum "effect", and a martingale to keep the poor horse from being able to move it's head in any direction to get away from the constant pain.


And that, in my opinion, is WHY leverage bits are illegal in AMHR. Yes, it would be wiser simply to specify what settings are legal. Barring that, simply banning them all the way across is the next best thing and that's what they've done. If we don't like it, why don't we submit a rule change proposal?

Leia


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## Mominis (Jul 5, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> When you do get it, I would love to see a picture of it and know the "damage". ($$$)
> 
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> 
> ...


AHA! A fellow bit junkie! I love bits too. I'm getting rid of all of my big horse stuff, except for my bit collection. I just love my bits. I can't find the email from Iowa Valley, but they priced the mini mouthing snaffle at less than $50.


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## Sue_C. (Jul 5, 2010)

> AHA! A fellow bit junkie! I love bits too. I'm getting rid of all of my big horse stuff, except for my bit collection. I just love my bits. I can't find the email from Iowa Valley, but they priced the mini mouthing snaffle at less than $50.


Oh yes, it isn't so much I _started_ out collecting, but when you have many different horses, with different "tastes", and needs, you do find they add up don't you?





I did find with the minis, there were not very many good bits until the past ten/twelve years. Before that, you had to look long and hard to find something that wasn't a horrid little piece of crap like what came with those cheap harnesses pumped out in sweatshops somewhere.



I used to go through a lot of latex bit-wrap, before I found a good supply of quality bits...and those are improving every day.

When I train a horse, the bit that horse chooses, goes back to the client with the horse...same as when I sell a driving horse...the bit goes with...I want to know my horses go away with the proper tools, and the best chance of a happy driving career.


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## Mominis (Jul 5, 2010)

I'm fortunate that Shake has a fairly (don't tell him I said this) big mouth for a mini. I measured him at 4" and I have a wonderful array of bits that happen to be 4" to choose from once I get him mouthed. I don't have a French Link in that size (but Iowa Valley does...), however I do have a nice loose ring, baby mouthed bit that I can go to if he doesn't like the French Link that I'm ordering for him.

I've gotten rather spoiled and tend to start them in the French Link once they've been through the mouthing bit. But, if he isn't the french link type, the loose ring, the roller dee, or the eggbutt twins are waiting for him. lol Still not sure what to do with all of the great curbs I have. Maybe I should make them into a collage for the living room. LOL! Hubby would just love that. (not)


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## MiLo Minis (Jul 8, 2010)

I don't know you and I don't know your horse or how much experience you have or how long you have been driving so these questions are meant not to denigrate you or upset you but need to be asked.

First, the all important question: Has this mare had her teeth done recently by a good dental technician? A huge percentage of problems when driving are related to dental problems. Also, how long has she been driving?

If you are "afraid when I take her out of the arena I might need a little more bit because she is a very forward mare." is it possible that you may be taking a bit too strong of a hold on her not allowing her to move forward causing her to resent her bit somewhat?

I so agree with not going to a bitless bridle. If she is pushing through the bit you are using now you would be in big trouble in a bitless bridle. Not the right solution in most cases.


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## Marsha Cassada (Jul 8, 2010)

> If you are "afraid when I take her out of the arena I might need a little more bit because she is a very forward mare." is it possible that you may be taking a bit too strong of a hold on her not allowing her to move forward causing her to resent her bit somewhat?


This is sort of what happened with me and Dusty. He was too inexperienced and immature for the strong hold I was keeping on him. Someone, thankfully, observed this and suggested I give him more slack. It worked great! I had been thinking of trying a different bit with him, but it wasn't the bit at all. We worked in an enclosed area for several workouts, doing circles and paying-attention routines. The last two times I have taken him out on the road. He does break into a canter, but comes right back down to a trot when I ask him to. He is responding to discipline much better now.

If there was a bit store near me, I'm afraid I'd have one of everything.


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## Knighthawke (Jul 8, 2010)

She is very soft mouthed. We have been doing lots of transition work.

When we bought this mare we were VERY MUCH lied to. I was a beginner when I got her a few yrs back. She had been shown and we told the lady I wanted a horse to help me learn showing. Well I found out last fall that yes she was shown BUT she was also Raced ever weekend. So she thinks when she is put in harness it is time to TROT full out. So we are working a lot at halt, walk, and some trotting. But I have been working at slow trot. I have been trying to teach you don't need to go full out all the time.

She is very responsive to a half halt. But it is a real challenge to get a halt. Until we have done a fair amount of walk and trot. We start with only insisting on 1 to 2 second and work up to 7 by the end of the work out and she will stand relaxed.

She has had her teeth done recently by a dentist.

She has gotten better and more relaxed with her mouth in a mullen mouth and she is controlable with that in the arena but out side of the arena I am wondering if the forward urge is going to kick in.


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## RhineStone (Jul 8, 2010)

Marsha Cassada said:


> I had been thinking of trying a different bit with him, but it wasn't the bit at all.


We have a friend that has been VERY successful for years in the ADS ring in both CDEs and pleasure shows with his Fjords. He told us this spring that he thinks his horses know WAY more than he does, and they are just waiting for HIM to get it. He said when they've got it, they seem to say, "Way to go, Dad! You got it!"

I totally get what he is saying, as we have had "Way to go, Dad & Mom" moments with our horses lately, too!



Horsemanship has little to do with "mechanics" and a whole lot to do with understanding the horse!





Myrna


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## MiLo Minis (Jul 9, 2010)

Knighthawke said:


> When we bought this mare we were VERY MUCH lied to. I was a beginner when I got her a few yrs back. She had been shown and we told the lady I wanted a horse to help me learn showing. Well I found out last fall that yes she was shown BUT she was also Raced ever weekend. So she thinks when she is put in harness it is time to TROT full out. So we are working a lot at halt, walk, and some trotting. But I have been working at slow trot. I have been trying to teach you don't need to go full out all the time.


I am very sorry you were misled when you purchased your horse



It is a shame when people aren't honest as it usually leads to trouble down the road for the poor horse and the person that was lied to.

If she was a "good" racehorse <G> it is quite likely that she has a very strong forward trot and it may be very difficult for her to contain herself at the speed you are asking her to go. What is a slow trot for one horse may well be another's strong trot. They don't need to go full out all the time but they can't go slow all the time either - it is physically demanding on them to "collect" or go very slowly. I think it is quite possible she is showing her resistance to what you are asking of her. They can trot full out and still be relaxed and controllable if you are relaxed. Do you think that could be the problem?


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 12, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> I think it is quite possible she is showing her resistance to what you are asking of her. They can trot full out and still be relaxed and controllable if you are relaxed. Do you think that could be the problem?


Well said, Lori.



If she remains soft on the bit, steerable, and will stop and stand or walk when requested, is it really so bad if she's a bit speedy for awhile? Just something to ponder.

It sounds like you've done great with her and I bet she's a fun little horse.

Leia


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## MiLo Minis (Jul 15, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Well said, Lori.
> 
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Thanks Leia! It is sort of the same when you ask the reverse of them - to go too fast before they are ready for it. Horses need to build up the strength over time to carry themselves in balance and if we ask them for a less natural gait before they are ready we can frighten them because they feel unbalanced and out of control. It is more important in the beginning to achieve relaxation than a fast or slow gait. I realize this horse in the post has been driving for some time but was it correct driving? If as the poster says she was used for racing then it is going to be much like reschooling a Thoroughbred or Standardbred off the track when working with her. You may need to send her to a professional trainer to get her more in a frame of mind for you to drive.


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