# So who now owns Zorro for



## LisaF. (Oct 7, 2005)

I seen he has been sold...but, who bought him?


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## Jill (Oct 7, 2005)

Well, I was trying to keep it my little secret but....


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## LisaF. (Oct 7, 2005)

LOL


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## MyLilShowGirl (Oct 7, 2005)

LOL..Jill

I am curious too!



I saw him at Worlds last year....what an awesome horse





-Kris


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## Littleum (Oct 7, 2005)

Johnathan Whit bought out the rest of the partnership.

That ad in the MHW is tacky-tacky-TACKY.


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## Lauralee (Oct 7, 2005)

Lol Jill, did Jonathan Whitt buy Zorro for you??? LOL j/k

I don't have my MHW handy....what is the tacky ad about????

On a serious note, Zorro is a scrumptious looking little horse. NICE.


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## REO (Oct 7, 2005)

Zorro has always been one of my *favorites*!

Which MHW? Is it the one that's coming this month? I don't have it yet.


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## Littleum (Oct 7, 2005)

Zorro is very lovely indeed. Can trot a good lick too. 

The ad basically has 4 pictures of Zorro. 1 as a weanie, 1 as a yearling, 1 winning National Grand, and 1 as a senior horse. Under the 3 aged photos the ad reveals how much he was sold for at that age. Tacky.


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## nootka (Oct 7, 2005)

I dunno...it might be a little on the tasteless side, (the ad), however, I do think it is important for the Miniature Horse industry to keep a finger on the pulse of sales.

I don't know that a sale like the one of Zorro could be considered typical, nor should anyone just "getting into" minis think they will get that for theirs.

However, if properly managed and tended, his get should be able to help "raise the bar" for the Miniature Horse in that dept. (by that I mean gelding all his colts except the ones that are as good or BETTER than he, and not breeding his daughters which are inferior)

Too bad we don't have a counterpart to that ad w/the prices of some of the majority of horses that are sold. I have personally sold a lot of decent horses for under one thousand dollars, but if they are males, you bet they will be gelded at least. Not that any were on the level of Zorro, but I bet if I owned him, I'd be lucky to get $2500 for him! *LOL*

I really do like this horse, though. How tall is he?

Liz M.


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## LisaF. (Oct 7, 2005)

So, then who is in partnership with Zorro?...the way I took the ad...one person bought him for 400,000.00...maybe I am wrong


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## Marty (Oct 7, 2005)

I think it's insane.


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## Karin - NaKar Miniatures (Oct 7, 2005)

There is a lot more to the story as to how that $400,000 price tag came about. Not very nice. It is a shame it had to come to that.


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## Littleum (Oct 7, 2005)

Karin - NaKar Miniatures said:


> There is a lot more to the story as to how that $400,000 price tag came about.  Not very nice.  It is a shame it had to come to that.
> 480634[/snapback]
> ​



Yes, there is some back story to it...... but in the end, JSW farm wholly owns Zorro now.


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## solupe (Oct 7, 2005)

humm humm, Who is Zorro, where can i see this fantastic horse.....is he on a website....just curious....


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## nootka (Oct 7, 2005)

Zorro

Liz


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## justjinx (Oct 7, 2005)

Liz, thanks for the link. He's beautiful, but.....$400,000? jennifer


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 7, 2005)

Littleum said:


> Zorro is very lovely indeed. Can trot a good lick too.
> The ad basically has 4 pictures of Zorro. 1 as a weanie, 1 as a yearling, 1 winning National Grand, and 1 as a senior horse. Under the 3 aged photos the ad reveals how much he was sold for at that age. Tacky.
> 
> 480590[/snapback]
> ​


I dont get the world but yes I agree that sounds umm not something I would do but.. he is a nice nice horse would pretty much print almost anything if it meant he could come live here


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## ShelleyS (Oct 7, 2005)

He is beautiful... But $400,000? Good Lord! I can think of a LOT of things I could buy for that! I'd think to spend that much on a horse, you'd have to have more money than you knew what to do with. Just my opinion. I love the one's I have dearly and the certainly didn't cost anywhere near that!


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## *minis* (Oct 7, 2005)

Please don't flame me



... but in my opinion, Zorro may be a bit overestimated. I'm not such a huge fan of the Buckeroo bloodline anyway, so it's no big deal for me that he is the only black pinto Buckeroo son. However, I'm pretty much in the minority here LOL



Anyways, everyone has to decide for themselves what they think a horse is worth to them and that's it. I find it very tasteless to promote his price like that.



> I really do like this horse, though. How tall is he?


 As far as I know, he is permanently registered at 33.5"



Carina


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## Frankie (Oct 7, 2005)

Overestimated????????? You can over estimate my horse ANY time at that Price! Some people can't believe he sold for that. Butttttttttttttttttt,,,,,,,,,if they walked onto your lot and offered you that dollar amount for one of yours, you'd say NO!



To me, he is worth what he was sold for, and you can't argue that, because to pay that price, the new owner thought he was worth that.





Personally, I like him a lot. Saw him drive twice last year, I know nothing of driving, but I sure did like what I saw.


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## nootka (Oct 7, 2005)

Carolyn's right. A horse is worth what it sells for, and I don't really feel it's all that bad taste to advertise what he sold for. Granted, there were different circumstances, but I think most of us know there usually are (partnerships, etc.).

That auctioneer at the World Sale said it very succinctly: Your stallion is half your breeding program. (or something like it)

So if your mares are 4-6k a piece (I'm talking fairly average, good quality mares w/decent pedigrees and correct build), and you have four or five of them...a $20,000 stallion doesn't seem all that "out there"?

I would guess that Zorro's harem is more like $10,000 each for a low guess, though I know there are girls with higher selling values in there, and not sure how many of them there are, but even 40 of them puts him right where he should be for worth. Just one way of looking at it.

Everyone has their own taste in horses, and even the biggest winner/seller may not float your boat, and so that is the beauty in the world, to each his own.







Liz M.


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## ChrystalPaths (Oct 7, 2005)

Ok seriously, very nice horse, very nice farm...but that is a ridiculous amt of $$.

Would someone figure to "sell the foals" at a HUGE price because of this amt? Just how many foals can one stallion make to recoup that type of $$$?

Just seems like this "not" going to help the miniature horse industry by advertising that amt of sale. If anything it would scare me off from even considering a purchase there.

JMHO and if someone can clarify it for me please do. Keep in mind I do not show and have never paid more than $5000 for ANY horse. Nor would I.


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## *minis* (Oct 7, 2005)

Frankie said:


> Overestimated?????????  You can over estimate my horse ANY time at that Price! Some people can't believe he sold for that. Butttttttttttttttttt,,,,,,,,,if they walked onto your lot and offered you that dollar amount for one of yours,  you'd say NO!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to start an argument, but if someone walked onto my lot and offered my 400,000 for any horse, I wouldn't give it away, because I would know that the expectations that the potential buyer has in the horse will never be met. Usually, as a buyer, you see a horse once or twice, maybe for a few hours, and then you decide that you're going to invest that amount of money? No way, sorry!

But, as I said, everyone needs to decide for themselves. In this case it may be a bit different, because Whitt had already owned a "part" of Zorro. Still, in my opinion, 400,000 is just too much. Especially keeping in mind that before that the highest price ever paid for a miniature was at around 150,000, it may seem to someone that is not involved that the figure 400,000 may have been picked for promotion purposes.

But I'll shut up now, as I said, I'm obviously in the minority here and I don't want to spoil a great topic about a great horse!




Carina


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## minicount (Oct 7, 2005)

He is a nice horse and I thought so before he had any "titles" BUT I donâ€™t' think any different of him today then I did before I knew what he sold for. He didn't buy my admiration.

Is he worth it? Well he was to someone now wasn't he?

There are those that will pay more for a horse if they know what his sire/dam sold for, an obvious indication that they hit their head when they fell off the turnip truck.

Zorro is gorgeous although I think the ad is tacky.


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## Jill (Oct 7, 2005)

Which issue is this ad in? I have not actually noticed the ad. Or, can someone PM me and fill me in on what some people are finding to be in bad taste about the ad?


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## Shelley (Oct 7, 2005)

Zorro's a pretty darned handsome guy, but what I'D like to know is where they got those gorgous arab outfits he's wearing in his pics! Wowsa!!!

Shelley


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## ChrystalPaths (Oct 7, 2005)

I had a thought, something we say alot around here....a horse is worth as much as someone will pay for it or you would pay for it yourself. I still hold with that being wayyy to much.


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## ~Palomino~ (Oct 7, 2005)

justjinx said:


> Liz, thanks for the link.Â  He's beautiful, but.....$400,000?Â  Â  jenniferÂ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, he is an okay(well, not just okay, but really GORGEOUS), but $400,000.00 That is CRAZY! could you IMAGINE the barn you could buy (even though he probably allready has it!)

Thats almost a half of million dollars, holy moly! What if he died the very first day they got him? Or he broke a leg, or got some desease(SP)? My freinds brother had a milion dollar stud and got electicuted(SP) but the power company had to pay it, I bet her brother was having some heart burn when he found him dead! I really think there are nicer horses out there than him, maybe very few, maybe its his color that is not apeeling to me, but IMO I like other horses diferent that what JSW likes I gues! I like some horses better that have sold, or are for sale for $1000.00! that is CRAZY!

But If it were me, and I had that money, I cant imagine the horses I would go out and buy, but never would I spend THAT much money on 1 horse, I would rather go out, and buy me a heard of NICE horses, instead of paying huge amounts of money on one horse. I like horses dearly, but WHY would you want to pay that much for 1 single horse????

JMHO!

this is just my opinion, JSW has his rights, and I am not critisizing(SP) for his choice! but if it were me that is my way I would do it ^^^^(what I wrote above) I am happy for JSW that he can go do that, and if he likes him, thats GREAT for him CONGRATS!

What add are you guys talking about? What page?

-Gage-


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## shminifancier (Oct 7, 2005)

$400,000 That is when 2 fools met


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## Jill (Oct 7, 2005)

What is it that is not tasteful about the ad? I'm nosey!!!

My most recent copies of The Journal and The World are at my office and I'm not nosey enough to drive 100 miles round trip


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## ClickMini (Oct 7, 2005)

Believe me, that horse is insured to the hilt. If he died the next day, the only ones hurting would be the insurance companies.


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## minicount (Oct 7, 2005)

Sorry, I'm just not getting why what he brought is such an issue?

As far as a nice herd, Whitt already has them, barn well he has that too.


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## Minimor (Oct 7, 2005)

I guess if both parties are okay with the price being published, it's not really what I'd call tacky. It's an attention getter anyway, and that's what advertising is all about. (Of course I don't know the story behind the $400,000.00, but then I know of a lot of other horses that were somehow "worth" more than the actual cash spent to buy them...figure in a few trades & voila, very high priced horses.)

The only thing I don't like about published prices, you go & buy a horse for $80000.00 at a sale, the sale prices are published, & then your high priced horse bombs out in the showring, some people find it highly amusing--it offers some people a good sales pitch too, because "my horse beat that one that they paid $80000.00 for". Or in this case someone may say "My colt beat that colt, & that one's sire sold for $400000.00"

Ya, personally I don't see most horses as being worth that kind of money, & if I had that amount that had to be spent on a horse that's not the horse I'd buy with it, but that's just me. But ya, I'd now think twice about inquiring on a foal from JSW.


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## ClickMini (Oct 7, 2005)

Why would you think twice about purchasing a foal from JSW? Feel the stallion is overhyped and foals perhaps overpriced? Just curious, no flames.

By the way, auction prices are a matter of public record in the Thoroughbred world, where most of them are sold. You can pull an auction report on any registered TB to see what he/she has passed through the ring at. In some cases, they have been auctioned a number of times, especially broodmares.


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## AJ (Oct 7, 2005)

I have not seen the "fine" details in the sales contract on this loong thread.

Would somebody out there have 2 $50,000. mares to trade for my $100,000. stallion????? He is unproven at this point, so the mares can also be unproven....


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 7, 2005)

Hmmm well to be honest I wouldnt say he isnt worth it.. Come on now this guy had partial ownership and isnt a fool(not a nice thing to say by the way) He knows what they are getting for stud fee and for proven foals in the show ring and such.

I am sure he was well aware what it is he was paying for and how good of an investment it was for him.

now would I spend that kinda money on a horse maybe.. if I had it well no not maybe I can think of lots of large horses that if I had that type of money I would drop in a heartbeat.


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## SWA (Oct 7, 2005)

Gosh, I sure don't know the story behind the sale, and wouldn't impose to ask, but being that his "now" owner, was "then" a part owner, just wondered if maybe "_Sentimental Value_" was somehow in the mix?

I know that's something that even I have very hard time putting down in any figure on any of my horses. That's why I'm always asking for advice in helping me in that department, LOL. I've posted to each what I've been advised (so far) to have, and I know much the same response must what some think of mine too. Although, not near as the same ballpark figuratively.



I could only wish.





But, anyways....I think what little I do know of Zorro, primarily from gazing at pics of him now and then...I do think he is one awesome horse!


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## ~Palomino~ (Oct 7, 2005)

minicount said:


> Sorry, I'm just not getting why what he brought is such an issue?
> As far as a nice herd, Whitt already has them, barn well he has that too.
> 
> 
> ...


oh, then thats a good reason to go buy a $200000.00 horse, and only own half of him!

-Gage-


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## ~Palomino~ (Oct 7, 2005)

dbblepost


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## susanne (Oct 7, 2005)

> $400,000Â  That is when 2 fools met


No, the seller would only be a fool if he/she turned that sum down...

But here's another question...

How many peple were in the partnership? The buyer is also one of the sellers, so if there were only two in the partnership he would be getting half of his money back, right? The $400,000 would only be on paper, not hard, cold cash. His investment is $200,000 plus his share of whatever they paid for him in the first place.

The real estate comparison is quite apt...a lot of the appreciation in value is strictly on paper and represents what someone has deemed the property to be worth at this time.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 7, 2005)

Love the horse BUT certainly not worth $400K and you are right, it's a paper thing only, great marketing ploy.


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## Minimor (Oct 7, 2005)

Sorry, ClickMini, I knew what I meant, I just didn't say it all! Yes, I did mean I would expect that with a price tag like that, Zorro's foals would all be well out of my price range. If there was one I could afford, I'd have to think "cull"!!


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## attwoode (Oct 7, 2005)

Does it seem inappropriate to anyone else that we are critiquing somebody's horse and how much it was purchased for? This seems like a recipe for hurt feelings and upset mini owners. I really appreciate the educational aspect of the forum and not so much of this gossipy stuff.


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## Devon (Oct 7, 2005)

yes good point he is gorgoues though but ti shocking when you here amini went for that




love him


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## Frankie (Oct 7, 2005)

I think there is too much being said here, too many comments made, when most are guessing, maybe not knowing the entire case, (not that it is any of our business). I do not believe that how that sale came about, or how much money was spent, has a whole lot to do with us. I think cases like this, this wonderful horse is there for us to ohh and ahh over, not bicker over what SOMEONE else paid for the horse. Or for us to make assumptions over a sale that was meant to be between the buyer and the saler. Yes, they did put the price in. Their horse, their ad, their right.

This is a wonderful, dynamic stallion. Is he worth it???? I don't know. Prints is a very average little filly, I have spent a ton on her in vet bills. Is she worth it? Many have accumulated enormous vet bills to give dwarfs a good quality of life. Are they worth it? Heck, they won't even ever product a foal to regain anything financially. I could go on and on. My point here, it is worth it to me, as I am sure it is to this buyer, and no matter what you may think, we are doing what's right for us, no matter the reason.

We make decisions based on what we know to be true and what means we have avaliable to us. When we do make those decisions, is it your right to tell us how wrong we are, or call us fools? Not unless you are forced to pay a percentage, or it all!


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## wsf (Oct 7, 2005)

My opinion:

gossip sucks


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## Stacy Score (Oct 7, 2005)

This one is pretty simple and a matter of public record. The stallion was owned by two individual parties who each had a percentage of the horse - say 50/50 for example. When Party A wanted to buy out Party B - (which was obviously allowed for in the original purchase contract) they could not decide on the value of the horse so that Party A could assess a dollar value and buy out Party B. This issue went to court and the judge ruled that the horse was to be sold on PUBLIC auction to determine his value and then Party A and Party B would split the proceeds according to their percentage owned. Well Party A bought the horse at the public auction (in other words he paid himself) and the "value" was established so that he could then pay Party B the percentage and thereby be the sole owner of the horse. I believe the only people who made money on this deal were the lawyers!


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## The Dynamic Duo (Oct 7, 2005)

well just imajine of you were in the buisness, had a few million to bust and it was burning a hole in your pocket and you already have a HUGE farm.you needed a stallion to be able to expand your herd so you bought the best in the buisness. he would be worth the cash (probaly triple)when he got retired form breeding.

that^ is my theory. plz no flames i am new


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## bevann (Oct 7, 2005)

In the Standardbred world auction prices are published in their magazine along with the names of buyers.It is a matter of public record. IMO the price paid and the other details should not be discussed or criticized by members of the forum. If you were talking to the buyer&seller in person I dought(sp) that these comments and questions would be raised.


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## disneyhorse (Oct 7, 2005)

Congratulations Mr. Whitt!!! Zorro is a beautiful horse who can do it all, and is admired by many. Congratulations on your purchase of him, may he continue to sire gorgeous foals for you!

Andrea


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## Relic (Oct 7, 2005)

l also think he's an awesome stallion and wish the guy all the luck in the world.

Nothing gets people going faster on something then when they hear of someone who can afford the bucks to own such a beauty. l also noticed he owns First Knights Redi or Not always wondered where he went



. l'd give my eye teeth to have any of his stallions except for one and l'd take any of his mares in a heart beat not because they are pricey but because they are beautiful to look at and must be pure bliss to have around and there is no way in this lifetime that would happen for us but good for him.


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## Lacey (Oct 7, 2005)

disneyhorse said:


> Congratulations Mr. Whitt!!!  Zorro is a beautiful horse who can do it all, and is admired by many.  Congratulations on your purchase of him, may he continue to sire gorgeous foals for you!Andrea
> 
> 480933[/snapback]
> ​


I absolutely agree with Andrea, best wishes to Jonathan and his family (who all very much love this horse)!

I know that no one on this forum means any ill will and I myself do not like gossip, it can be so hurtful, so to help set the record straight so to speak please read Stacy Score's post above that explains everything.

In addition to Stacy's post; Party A already owned a huge percentage of the horse and as such the actual out of pocket cost was a much more reasonable amount. However; the $400,000 is very much a real price tag.

Zorro is beautiful and has amassed an extensive show record. He is now siring beautiful foals that are winning in the show ring. Zorro was also well represented at the World Show Sale with some of his offspring bringing good prices. I think Zorro is well on his way to following in his sire's hoof-steps



!


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## miniaddiction (Oct 8, 2005)

Hmmm well he doesnt really float my boat but hey this is me.

Honestly, an object is only worth what the ultimate buyer is willing to pay and if Lucky Mr Whitt is willingly able to pay this amount for Zorro then good for him!

Congratulations to him I say.





Helen


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## nootka (Oct 8, 2005)

I never meant any ill will, I hope my posts did not come across that way.

Zorro is actually one of my very favorite stallions, and I DO see his worth, truly.

I just think there are circumstances which noone can always see or fully understand unless they themselves are involved directly and I'm certainly not about to guess or criticize the motives, just being a bit envious is all.




But in a good way!

Liz M


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## [email protected] (Oct 8, 2005)

How fabulous for Mr. Whitt to have this stunning stallion solely for his own. I admit I'm a closet fan of his breeding/showing program and he's done an outstanding job of putting together a herd to die for! It would be wonderful to have the income to purchase the herd he has selected, but each horse definitely can stand on it's on - he's definitely no fool!

I've also never heard a bad word spoken about this gentleman, but only positive comments about his enthusiasm and abilities!

As to pricing - we should all look at this as a boon for Mini pricing overall that such a value could be placed on a Miniature. Zorro is quality and his show record proves that - looks, ability, pedigree and progency - he is a complete package!


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 8, 2005)

I agree- I have watched this young man from complete "newbie" to seasoned campaigner- OK he had the money to do it, but you know what they say about fools and their money- he is no fool!! He came form nowhere- got a lot of really good advice and backing form good, honest people- BUT he had to have the common sense to find them, money can just as easily find nasty people intent on giving you as little as possible for it! I've seen that happen over here, more than once, and the people leave the scene, disillusioned. This young man took that horse through halter right on into harness, which I really do admire- how many TOP halter horses have gone on into performance. I do believe he really loves his horse, too, so there was obviously the sentimental aspect to take into account- basically all that HUGE price tag does for me is prove how much he wanted and loves the horse! I think Zorro is nice (you know I'm _very_ reserved with my praise!!) Would I pay that much?? If I had it and I loved the horse, Yes, of course I would. As has been said we spend HUGE amounts on "lost causes" as others might see them, what's the difference?? Does it make the horse worth that much?? Not to me, certainly, but to Jonathon- Yes, I think the horse is probably worth the world to him


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## minisch (Oct 8, 2005)

Congratulations Mr. Whitt!!! Zorro is a beautiful horse who can do it all, and is admired by many. Congratulations on your purchase of him, may he continue to sire gorgeous foals for you!

Andrea

My sentiments exactly Andrea!

He is much nicer in person! I hate gossip too


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## Lauralee (Oct 8, 2005)

Any time an ad is shocking or different from the norm, the intent is to get people talking about the subject matter. Publishing the prices inspires people to gasp, gawk, and gossip. Just as naming a horse something outrageous such as "God" and then heavily promoting it inspires gossip as well. So it achieving the intended result. If we weren't here talking about the price he paid and the horse that sold, then his ad did not accomplish the intended goal.

I sat ringside at nationals one year and watched Zorro show. He was directly in front of me by the rail. He was my pick. One exquisite little horse. Oh yes, if I had the money, I'd have spent it on him too. He is that special.


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## horsehug (Oct 8, 2005)

Again Lauralee,

I was thinking the very same thing about the ad and getting people talkiing!

I also agree that he is an EXquisite little horse!

I have never heard a bad word about Jonathan either and am very happy for him . And if money were no object I can only imagine the horses I might own! 

Susan O.


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## Stacy Score (Oct 8, 2005)

As said by others the ad is getting people talking - generally this is a good thing - the advertised price on Zorro will catch the eye of people with really big $$$$ in the large horse breeds -and perhaps FINALLY the minatures will be able to take their place of respect within their larger counterparts. In my humble opinion part of the reason our horses haven't gotten "equal time" in the large horse industry is because they generally don't carry the same $$$ value as national champion large horses where it is NOT the least bit uncommon to spend several hundred thousand dollars and often well into the millions to buy a really good horse - for the miniature industry this advertisement is a "good thing" - but I do freely admit that if this breed starts getting prices that high that I will be out of the industry pretty darn fast because there is NO way that I can even remotely afford them - that said, I am still all for it because generally those prices go along with high quality and I believe that is what we are all striving for.

Congratulations Jonathon Whitt on your purchase of your beloved Zorro - I know that he will be a pretty happy camper prancing around with your beautiful mares!

Stacy


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## LisaF. (Oct 8, 2005)

Wow..this thread sure did turn into an interesting one. I posted because I was really curious where this horse went. I didn't know if he was still here in the USA or somewhere else.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 8, 2005)

I have always loved "Zorro", the minute I saw a pic of him I fell in love. What I don't particularly like in all of this is the fact that the $$ amount (of supposed value) was marketed this way. It reminds me of what transpired back in the 80s in the arabian world where horses were marketed this way on paper only and the prices went through the roof. Of couse the "inflated" prices in that market at the time, well eventually they came crashing down and alot of people were left with lots of very beautiful horses but their value came down to more "reasonable" lets say amounts. Alot of arabian owners still talk about the "haydays of the 80s" and I believe there are quite a few books and articles about it. It was the era of glitz and glam and BIG money. Now I don't mean to say this is what is going to happen here because of only 1 horse but I am always worried that this breed, minis, are truly going down that route. We have those breeding for the "arabian type mini" and each year they get more slender, longer necks, etc. etc. More people are breeding to shetlands in order to get more action. It sure reminds me of what is happening in the arabian world as we speak. SCARY. In a few years we won't recognize our breed... Sorry went off on a tangent there but the high $$ thing is what got me going in that direction.

Congratulation to Zorro's new owner you have a VERY special horse there


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## minicount (Oct 8, 2005)

I remember just a few years back when the gelding sold for $44,000 and how everyone crowed and hollered how geldings were going to be the next hot ticket. I know some say how their geldings sell better but by the large I have not seen where geldings have made a huge leap forward. There still are National Champion Titled geldings for sale cheap.

Same as with Zorro, gorgeous horse, but he can't pull the rest of the industry up by his bootstraps. His sire sold for $$$$ wwwaaayyy back when and still we do not see those prices as the "norm".

The reason the ad turns me off is because it seems like trying to "buy" respect. If one does not like Zorro for his conformation, titles, get, pedigree and color do you really need to win them over? Do you want people who are only impressed with money? In the big horse world I HATE the pitch when I go to look at a horse about "Well his sire sold for XX or His sire's stud fee is XX".

It boils down to whether or not you like the horse.


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## Jean_B (Oct 8, 2005)

OK - I've kept my mouth shut for a while now, but seeing some of these posts makes my blood boil.

The fact that the ad posted the prices did what it was intended to do - brought attention to a great stallion. All of the other back-biting comments are just SOUR GRAPES. Geez, there is nothing worse than a jealous person...talk about vicious! And honestly, what went on behind the scenes is no one's dad-gum business!! And sitting here and guessing and spreading rumors and inuendos is about tantamount to what Mary Lou recently went through. SHAME ON YOU WHO ARE SPREADING RUMORS! The ad posted the price. That's all anyone needs to know and quite frankly, I don't give a rat's behind on what lead to Jonathan's decision to buy out the partnership!!!

I had the opportunity to visit with the Whitt family briefly at Fort Worth the other day. Jonathan and his father are truly gracious hosts and wonderful, GENUINELY NICE people. There is nothing fake about them. They do not put on airs. They are the kind of people you would like to call "friend."

And I had the opportunity to see both Zorro and Good Deed up close...Mr. Whitt took great pleasure in showing us one of the idiosyncracies of Good Deed...that boy is very discriminating when it comes to treats--Pepsi products only!!!

Congrats to the Whitt's on their purchase and best wishes to them in the future.


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## miniaddiction (Oct 8, 2005)

Does anyone have a plain picture of him. I cant really see what he looks like wiht ll that gear on and not a side on picture.


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## Annetta (Oct 8, 2005)

JeanB mentioned Scouts Good Deed--now THAT is a horse I like!

I figure that any time someone publishes a "different" sort of ad, be it like this one with an extremely high price being given, or an attention grabber picture like the one used by Lucky Hart a couple of issues ago (remember how some here suggested that Tara was wearing a "hooker outfit"



--to me that was as rude a thing to say as anything I've seen here...more rude in fact....but no one else seemed bothered by it.) Anyway, any time someone publishes an ad like this, they have to know that there's going to be "talk"...some will wonder how that "value" was ever arrived at, some will think the horse was worth it, some will think the horse wasn't worth it, some will say if he's got the money & wishes to pay that much then great for him, while others will say anyone is nuts to pay that for a horse, any horse.

Sour grapes, Jean? Hardly that; I'm another that could care less about Zorro--that's simply not the sort of horse that I go for. Give me a Michigan or Establo horse instead. But ya, I do still like Good Deed!

Edited to add: As usual, it's a good thing that we don't all go for the same thing in horses (or anything else!). There'd be a small bunch of Minis that would be valued at a million or so dollars, and all the rest would be worth nothing!


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 8, 2005)

WHOA Jean B.



Sour grapes????? I believe most of us, if not ALL of us posted here that the horse was gorgeous. You feel it's sour grapes????? or perhaps just people expressing their opinions with regards to the disclosure on the ad that stated what the animals sold for. I still stand by my opinion that it's purely for marketing purposes and I still believe, without taking anything away from his new owner, that it reminds me of what transpired with arabians back in the 80s. I have seen this kind of marketing before and many of us who own arabians and were around in the 80s will also recall it. Never said anything was wrong with it so please don't jump all over some of us here for posting our thoughts. My thoughts were not nasty or "sour grapes" in anyway and I am sorry if you felt the posts here are.


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## horsehug (Oct 8, 2005)

My thoughts are for sure not sour grapes!

I think highly of Jonathan and stated so!

I also know myself and know that for being a pretty frugal person in general, when it comes to horses I love, I will often spend money that I would not have spent on anything else! Like I said before, if money were no object I can only imagine what I might spend on a horse if I really wanted it!!

And I am happy for him!!

Susan O.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 9, 2005)

I have to agree Sour grapes no way. Now from the beginning of this thread I had said Obviously Mr Whitt knew what he was doing and what he expected out of this investment but come on... to post an add with the price of a horse 4 different times in his life the sole reason for that is to get people talking, wondering if the money exchanged was actual or on paper, discussing his value or the value of any miniature horse for that amount of money.

It isnt about gossip it is about discussing or for lack of a better term taking the bait they have put there for everyone to see and run with


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## mizbeth (Oct 9, 2005)

shminifancier said:


> $400,000  That is when 2 fools met
> 
> 
> 
> ...



YEP! It wasn't real money I'm sure!


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## mizbeth (Oct 9, 2005)

minicount said:


> I remember just a few years back when the gelding sold for $44,000 and how everyone crowed and hollered how geldings were going to be the next hot ticket.
> 
> I think that price was 22K and not 44,000. Still a lot of money in any case.
> 
> ...


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## shminifancier (Oct 9, 2005)

Yes and what went on behind the scenes we do not know. But I would think there is some trading, some kind of negotiations going on . Just like some of the real high priced Arabians of years past. Many things went on behind the lights and cameras that people were not aware of.. Not many of these kind of deals are cash upfront.. Besides at that price there is no way the person/persons get a return on that kind of an investment, no way..So this is as much of a publicity stunt as lots of the Arabians were.



mizbeth said:


> shminifancier said:
> 
> 
> > $400,000Â  That is when 2 fools met
> ...


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## tagalong (Oct 9, 2005)

_Hmmmm_... if anyone was discussing the business dealings of some of those who have posted here in a snide manner - or commented about THEIR horses in the same way - there would be heck to pay. But it appears it is perfectly acceptable for_ them _to sneer at _others...._

Marketing or whatever - there are some comments in this thread that are totally uncalled for...


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## Lauralee (Oct 9, 2005)

In regards to the ad from "George's" farm where the daughter was pictured in what some would call a skimpy outfit.....

I thought that ad was great! If I had a figure like that I'd show it off too!!!!

I think that any ad which strays from the same old boring content is terrific. Aren't you sick of the same old formats and wordings? I am!

However I don't think anyone here has sour grapes or jealousy over the purchase of Zorro. People by nature are going to talk and discuss their opinions on all sides. If nothing negative or opposing were allowed to be said then it would be a boring world.

I don't consider the discussions as malicious gossip when the ads were made public

intentionally....

BUT if this discussion were taking place with no publicized ad being the centerpiece of discussion, THEN the content would be considered speculation, heresay, rumor....


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## painthorse61 (Oct 9, 2005)

Shelley said:


> but what I'D like to know is where they got those gorgous arab outfits he's wearing in his pics!  Wowsa!!!
> Shelley
> 
> 480742[/snapback]
> ​


I have no idea where those came from but here is a link to a site that makes similar ones. If you scroll down the page there is a section for Minis.

They are kind of pricey, but when you pay that price for a horse, whats another $1000 for the wrapping?

http://www.costumesbycarolyn.com/


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## Robin1 (Oct 9, 2005)

I think its great that Mr.Whitt now has full ownership in a horse that he loves.

Lets do some math here.

IF Mr.Whitt owned 50% of Zorro prior to the sale then.

$200,000 went to Mr. Whitt at the sale.

The other partner/partners got $200,000 from the sale.

So in reality Mr.Whitt paid the partners the $200,000 that he would have received if he had not been the buyer.

Robin


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## Sun Runner Stables (Oct 9, 2005)

You know I just returned from Worlds, and saw this post, read it, went on, then had to come back...

Gossip is nasty and rude, and espically in this case where emotions were high and it just being an all around Nasty situation!

Many of you are Very right, there was Alot more going on here then meets the eye, and the Witts almost got the short end of the stick.

They are wondeful kind people, who fourtunatly have the money to be able to pursue horses and showing in a beautiful way. (You should have Seen their display in Moncref!!!)

For those of you that were not at Worlds, at the sale alone, Zorro's two foals sold for A Huge sum of money, and they were Beautiful, quality horses, and the prices were Not hype, they were real, with real people.

The Witts, as many have said, are Wonderful people and very kind and generous who would just do anything for you if they could! The ad did what it was supposed to, it caused all of you to talk about this wonderful horse! And if you think his costume looked good on him in the pictures, you should have seen it on him in Person, in the youth costume! He looked exactly like a true Arab in miniature!!


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## nootka (Oct 9, 2005)

I'm all about the publicity, I think he's a beautiful horse, (Zorro), and I'm happy that Johnathan owns him as he obviously is very devoted to him.

Liz M.


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## Tony (Oct 9, 2005)

I have to disagree with those who thought that the ad was "tacky". I think that it was a masterful promotional piece, not only for the breeders, purchaser, but most of all for the industry. During the introductions at the World Show Sale, Don Burdett, who is a master of marketing and promotion, in my opinion, referenced the ad, pointing out that the market for miniatures is good and a good investment. He cleared it with both the people of Little King and JSW before he talked about it. As far as the auction where he was sold, it was a public auction as was stated earlier and I know of another individual who was the runner-up bidder and actually bid $350,000. So, it was NOT a fake sale, at all.


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## yankngo (Oct 9, 2005)

Robin1 said:


> I think its great that Mr.Whitt now has full ownership in a horse that he loves.
> Lets do some math here.
> 
> IF Mr.Whitt owned 50% of Zorro prior to the sale then.
> ...


the % of ownership i heard was about 90% maybe a little more and yes that is what happens so also john E. made out too.


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## ClickMini (Oct 12, 2005)

Well, I finally received my World in the mail yesterday and saw this ad. I didn't think it was tacky, the ad was NOT taken out by JSW saying hey look how much we spent on this horse, but rather by Little King, who were promoting the fact that a horse from their breeding program brought that much. They were promoting the fact that miniature horses can indeed be a valuable asset and investment.


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## J&HMinis (Oct 12, 2005)

I think Zorro is absolutely stunning! As for the Whitts.... If is wasn't for Johnathan's help at the Eastern Regionals my mare might not have made it. I still can't thank him enough!


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## susanne (Oct 12, 2005)

Whatever one thinks of the ad, since both parties were willing to disclose the terms of the deal, there is absolutely nothing gossipy or wrong about discussing it here on a public forum. Granted, they had no choice about the auction being public, but the ad puts them squarely as public figures by choice.

Yes, it's always good and wise to respect privacy, but there is an element on this forum (and on other recent threads) who would have nobody discussing anyone, any issue, or anyone else's horses. Public, candid discussion is not by definition gossip, and it is better to air these things in the open where they can be refuted if necessary.


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