# Okla. Dentist Arrested yesterday



## Sandra L. (Mar 5, 2009)

I just received e-mail that Bobby Griswold was arrested yesterday. He received a call from someone that they had horses that needed teeth floated, when he showed up he was arrested.

He has been doing teeth for 15 yrs and lives in Oklahoma. I don't know him as a dentist, but he is also a World Ch bareback bronc rider.

I have also been told, but do not have it validated that when the dentist is charged with a felony the horse owner is also.

Pray for Bobby Griswold and his family. If you have any suggestions on what we can do to help him please e-mail me.


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## StarRidgeAcres (Mar 5, 2009)




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## Sandra L. (Mar 5, 2009)

Update on arrest of Bobby Griswold. He is still in jail. The Daily Oklahoma has been called, along with channel 4, 5, 9 and Fox 25. There are places on the websites of those stations out of OKC that you can put comments. I am sure you can google and get them.

Flood them with comments. If we don't stick up for our rights and our horses, nobody will.


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## AppyLover2 (Mar 5, 2009)

If it happened the way you said it did....no reason to think otherwise....it sounds to me like he was set up.


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## Songcatcher (Mar 5, 2009)

God have mercy! As though we don't have enough REAL crimes in Oklahoma to keep law enforcement busy. This is what happens when people expect government to take over and manage everything for them.


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## whimsical (Mar 5, 2009)

Oh my, this is horrible.

Government at it's best.......(sarcastically).

There are way too many other things the government could focus on.

Drugs, gangs, robbers, etc. But I guess they have failed at controling them so they have to show the citizens that they can enforce something.

Please keep us posted. I will be glad to comment to a news story, but I haven't found it on the websites yet.


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## HGFarm (Mar 5, 2009)

I agree- that was a setup... and I am sure the horse owner, if that is who actually called, was in on it.

This is RIDICULOUS! There isn't more serious crime out there to deal with?! Theft, assault, robbery, murder, etc....???!!

To purposely do something like this is beyond low... and another case that will sit in the courts- like they have nothing else to do.


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## Naira3284 (Mar 5, 2009)

stupid question but, what did he do to get arrested?


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## Reble (Mar 5, 2009)




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## JMS Miniatures (Mar 5, 2009)

I have a question? Before he got arrested did he do any services, or did they arrest him right there at the spot? If he hadn't done anything then he should be the one to sue the government.

Its totally stuipd, and defintelly a set up.


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## Dona (Mar 5, 2009)

Un......friggin'....believable!





What is WRONG with people? What are they trying to do....make an example out of this guy to try to scare people from doing ANY routine dental work on horses?


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## Miniv (Mar 5, 2009)

JMS Miniatures said:


> I have a question? Before he got arrested did he do any services, or did they arrest him right there at the spot? If he hadn't done anything then he should be the one to sue the government.
> Its totally stuipd, and defintelly a set up.



VERY good question........And I agree it's IDIOTIC and probably a set up.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Mar 5, 2009)

Dona said:


> Un......friggin'....believable!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe you've hit the nail on the head there dona. We had the same thing a couple of years ago hear in BC. The law here says only vets may do dental work but most of them either have no skill or no time or charge wild prices. There are quite a few dentists who quietly care for horses and nothing is done about it but this one dentist was for some reason targeted and taken to court over his work (naturally he was (or so I'm told) one of the best) All it did was force the rest to be VERY careful about clients making it less likely that horses will be seen by anyone at all.


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## Nathan Luszcz (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm sorry, but if you knowingly commit a felony, how can you NOT expect to get arrested?


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## Kira98 (Mar 5, 2009)

What is the world coming to. I mean for real like a few of you already said there are far more serious crimes being

commited on a hourly if not min by min basis that are way more important than someone FLOATING TEET!

We get routine dental work done on ourselves what are they goin to outlaw that next ! Granted a "DR" does our work but

if someone goes to school for Equine Dentistry or learns it and does it well whats the harm !

MOST of the vets out there DONT KNOW HOW to float teeth properly or well enuff to make a diff

I read this post and just about fell outta my chair when i saw the name of the gentleman who was arrested

I do recall using this man to float my horses teeth a few years back ! and IMHO he did the best job I had ever seen

better than any VET i have ever had do my horses "teeth"

It's just plain crazy that someone thinks its wrong for someone to do their job do it well and all because they dont have a DVM license

whats next they goin to outlaw trimming cause the farriers are not veterinarians also gesh


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## eagles ring farm (Mar 5, 2009)

The problem is (IMO) (flame suit doned)

taking care on someones animal

when they ask you to should not be a crime,

the govt just conviently makes something a crime when they want more fine $

will they start to aarrest people who trim their own horses feet next


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## Jean_B (Mar 5, 2009)

Nathan Luszcz said:


> I'm sorry, but if you knowingly commit a felony, how can you NOT expect to get arrested?


Normally I think you have comments that make good sense...and yes at first blush - what you are saying is correct.

HOWEVER .... in my over 45 years of experience with horses I have NEVER found a vet that I would let within 100 yards of my horses' mouths....But we have rehashed this debate here time and time and time again. Let's just say that on this issue, I will NEVER EVER agree with you that a vet is as qualified to do dental work as a certified equine dentist......UNLESS.....they have taken the extensive courses in addition to their normal vet training that a certified dentist undergoes. I can tell you right now that if they EVER make it impossible for me to get a dentist here to take care of my horses, I will take the training and do my own. What they going to do...arrest an owner for taking care of their own horses????? Because that's what this is boiling down to...owners not being able to determine what they feel is the best care for their own animals - just because some veterinarian on a POWER TRIP decides he is now in a position (in the OK Legislature) to make it easier to put $$ in his own pocket. That is an abuse of power for his own benefit!!!!!

But the whole thing and how this went down just doesn't pass the SMELL test. If it smells like a skunk....chances are it is a skunk. Whoever called Bobby out to their place doesn't pass the smell test, pure and simple.


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## MindyLee (Mar 5, 2009)

*OOOHHHH MAN I must be next to be arrested than!



I trim my own horses feet plus float their teeth myself.*

I bought all the equiptment to do both for all my minis. And If I cant do it myself when it comes to their teeth, I will have someone else (pro) do it ONLY if it's out of my hands. The problem I have seen around here so far is, most equine dentists dont have mini floats or mouth speculums. Nor dose my vet, and has even asked to use mine while at my house or a friends in the past. When I said sure: but you will have to discount the price a little for me supplying the equipment, there was a little disigreement about it. Which I think is wrong since I paid out the butt for equipment and would still have to pay full price?! So for the mean time I still continue to do my own horses as prices are way outragess! _The only way anyone else will tuch my horses mouths is if I cant do it myself!



_ My horses trust me and I am very gental and take my time with them. That way I dont have to see a bloody mess after someone else dose them and see them in pain... that is cruel!


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## Rusty Nails Ranch (Mar 5, 2009)

Here in NC they have made it illegal for anyone other than a licensed vet to practice equine dentistry.

My equine dentist had been in the business for 30+ years. Last year he moved to another town to semi-retire. He asked the local feed store owner if he could put up a business card on his bulletin board as he was looking for more local work and less travel.

A couple of weeks later he got a call from a perspective client. He took down the address, set up a time to meet, even asked how many horses he was to do and their conditions. When he arrived at the said farm, it was a set up. It was the state veterinarian that had seen his card and called him. The state vet's office is a 2 hour drive from here!!!! How did that happen??

Jake is 73 years old and was escorted to the courthouse by police car. He had to go before the court and was told they would let him go because of his age and health condition. But if he is ever caught floating teeth it will be given both sentences to serve. He is now on probation for 2 years.

Now, tell me how dangerous is a 73 year old man with a heart condition, arthritis and a wife that has never learned to drive?!?!

Those are our tax dollars at work!!!!





Tammie

Rusty Nails Ranch

Raeford, NC


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## RJRMINIS (Mar 5, 2009)

Jeesh what next? Farriers?



I know my vet sends me to an equine dentist, they don't have the small tools for my minis, so I have to use a equine dentist. I sure hope they don't pursue these charges against him, it is not right.


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## End Level Farms (Mar 5, 2009)

I refuse to have a vet do my teeth.

If my horses require anything teeth wise I will haul no matter how far it is to have a DENTIST do their work.

Basically if we want to think about it in human terms why dont we see the doctor cause our teeth hurt?

Why doesnt our DOCTOR work with our teeth?

Its the same thing with the horses why should their DOCTOR do their teeth?

Where is is in our RIGHTS to be told WHO AND WHAT can be done to our animals if its in their best interest. How is having a vet doing dentistry the BEST interest in our animals health and well being.

I have seen horse after horse after horse be seen by a vet and seen by a vet only to have ONE DENTIST visit and be helped.

One horse couldnt eat had a foul smell coming from his mouth for MONTHS the owner worked with 12 different vets 12!!! and not one spotted a bone chip sticking out in his mouth. Stabbing the roof of his mouth any time the poor horse ate. It was so infected and the horse was emaciated by the time the vets actually called the dentist that the owner had to keep explaining to the SPCA about all the vets working with the horse and tubing the horse and the horse was on IV's and everything. The poor owner had vet bills totalling over $5000 trying to figure out what was wrong with her horse. Her $200 dollar DENTIST bill fixed everything. The bone was taken out immediately and the horse was put on antibiotics and was fat and healthy in 2 months.


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## JourneysEnd (Mar 5, 2009)

Nathan Luszcz said:


> I'm sorry, but if you knowingly commit a felony, how can you NOT expect to get arrested?



Oh come on !

Horse owners of Texas, I hope you're emailing about HB 378 or this could happen to us.

My vet last week sent his tech in to do my horse's teeth, vet nowhere to be seen. Never looked at my horse.

Charged me $110. Enough is enough. Sometimes laws have to be challenged.


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## wildoak (Mar 5, 2009)

NOW is the time in Texas to get busy and let your representative know how you feel about this. Otherwise, we are shortly going to be in the same position and you won't have the _choice_ of calling a dentist.

Jan


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## ErikaS. (Mar 5, 2009)

I guess I just don't understand why it's a FELONY to pratice dentistry on livestock without a licence. Murder is a felony- surely this doesn't come close in degrees of criminal severity. Don't vets have plenty of other things to do besides dental work? Maybe they want to trim hooves, too.


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## osu_barrelracer (Mar 6, 2009)

ErikaS. said:


> I guess I just don't understand why it's a FELONY to practice dentistry on livestock without a license. Murder is a felony- surely this doesn't come close in degrees of criminal severity. Don't vets have plenty of other things to do besides dental work? Maybe they want to trim hooves, too.


The issue that they have isn't the actual floating of the teeth, its the administration of prescription sedatives by someone who is not a vet. They have no problem if YOU sedate your horse, but they are trying to say that someone who is not a licensed vet can not 'sell'/provide you with those drugs and/or administer them.

My personal opinion on it. . . These are my LIVESTOCK. I do not believe it is the governments place, or anyone else's to tell me who I can or cannot have work on my animals. I understand the issues with drug administration, but if a dentist or farrier wishes to administer drugs to one of my animals, that is my choice. It is up to me to accept the risks involved.

How long will it be until they decide we can't treat our own animals, do our own sutures, or even administer our own vaccinations?

Please go and check out this website. There is also a petition you can sign.

www.oklahomaequinedentistrylaw.com


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## White Socks Miniature (Mar 6, 2009)

I agree, I think sending someone to jail for floating teeth is just rediculous, or even planning the whole setup! What about other more serious issues like gang violence, homicides? I think the government needs to get a few things in priority there!

I know here in BC Equine dentists are no longer allowed but a few still do practice. The reason it was brought about was actually complaints from horse owners as there were quite a few shody individuals who practiced. The government here did it as there was no formal training to become an equine dentist and also because of the drug administration issue. I honestly do not think you can compare a vet to a doctor and then your dentist to your equine dentist. Your vet, Doctor and Dentist have gone to school for 6-8 years to learn what they do. There is NO formal training for an equine dentist. Someone can just say they are an equine dentist, say someone trusts this person and gets the horses teeth done.... that horse could get seriously injured! Just like in every profession there are bad and good, and there are regulatory measures in place, but how do equine dentists regulate who is bad and who is good?

It really is a double edged sword, do I think what the OK. state government is doing is right ...kind of ( I think there is a better way of doing it though) , Do I think they are wrong...YES! I think instead of just challenging the law, a solution to the problem at hand needs to be made up. I think that equine dental practitioners should continue to have work, however I think that they need a way of certifing themselves as farriers do ( a college, series of courses...something that supplies a certificate at the end) and they also need a board of practitioners to regulate themselves, so if complaints are brought up the board can oversee the issue and set up rules and punishment if need be and there would also be a formal record of it. That is what I think should be done instead of just saying " you cant work anymore".

Anyways my point is shutting them down and making it a felony is VERY wrong! However I do believe that they need some formal training and a way of regulating themselves so this can all stop as I dont think it will if everyone complains about it. They need an action plan, as I really do hope they can continue thier work!


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## Royal Crescent (Mar 6, 2009)

So, does anyone have an update on what is going on with this case now? I really think that this is inappropriate. It is not practicing medicine without a license, lol. It is basic care that all of should have a right to select who we trust to do it. And, esp with minis, the vets don 't have the knowledge, equipment or time to float teeth on everyones herd, The greed of a few affects us all, even if we don't live in that state.

Barb


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## dmk (Mar 6, 2009)

I worry about the situation we have here in Texas as well. I have written regarding the current bill and am hoping for positive results. I have had a vet do my ponies and minis, but they ALWAYS sedate and then use the big horse equipment. Even on my little 30" mare and they got her tongue under the speculum. By the time they were done I was pretty much in tears. Where I live there is no other option regarding vets. Carl has never sedated any of my horses and has managed to accomplish every float or procedure he attempted - even the most unruly. He didn't even make me pay for the stainless bucket one of my mares smashed into a pancake OH!.


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## Mona (Mar 6, 2009)

I received this email from Tom Allen...

Dear friends for the horse,

I am starting (just reserved it) a site to try to help us alert more horse owners to the real facts concerning their right to choose who works on their horses-the idea being that they will be aware, and therefore motivated to take action, stand up for their right to choose.

Any and all suggestions are welcome. I have another website-opened 10+ years ago (shortly after changing my work to horse dentistry only), where you can get an idea of my views. Also wrote a book:* Manual of Equine Dentistry*, in which I alienated a lot of my veterinary colleagues by giving credit to the non-vet equine dental practitoners who resurrected the study of horse denta health care.

Best regards, for the horse,

Tom Allen

Please send any replies to: *[email protected]* , not to [email protected] Thanks.


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## Sandra L. (Mar 6, 2009)

Naira3284 said:


> stupid question but, what did he do to get arrested?



He received a call to come to someone's house and float the teeth of their horses. When he got there he was arrested. In Nov. of 2008 the law that made floating horses teeth a misdeamenor was changed to a felony. I have no clue if he actually floated any teeth or even looked at any horses mouths.


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## Sandra L. (Mar 6, 2009)

RJRMINIS said:


> Jeesh what next? Farriers?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As a matter of fact we have already been warned they are going after farriers next. That will have to be a new topic.


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## Sandra L. (Mar 6, 2009)

The issue is not the equine dentist floating teeth on horses. The issue is not so much the equine dentist sedating that horse. The issue is the equine dentist is making money and the vets think that money should be in their pockets.

I personally would like to see a vet that gave a crap whether my 28 yr old horse lived or died. I did find an equine dentist that does nothing but miniatures and thank God he did care and has gone above and beyond to help my horse.

Even moreso, I would love to see a politician that would listen and that cared and that would try to help us. I just don't think that politician exists.


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## MyBarakah (Mar 6, 2009)

I think this is SUCH B.S.!!!!!!!!



Come ON! They want to start pointing freaking fingers at the equine dentist then they need to ALSO do that with EVERYTHING else if they want to be butt's! Then what about equine chiropracters & acupunter (miss spelled) people! The vets are just MAD because they think the equine dentist are taking away from thier practice! Which is such a CROCK of CRAP! MOST equine or vets are NOT specialized enough to know "enough" to do "good" with a horse's mouth! I think Vet's should go do equine dental school before EVER being allowed to work on horses mouths...... not just threw the vet school..... and even then..... it's VERY questionable!! Were I deal first hand and am the one who MAKES the equine dental floats and get to hear & see first hand about this stinking problem going on....... DO NOT EVEN get me STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JWC sr. (Mar 7, 2009)

Folks, this is a very real scenario of what some of you could see in the future if the house bill is passed.





I personally do believe though that if a equine practitioner is using drugs of any type then he/she should be required to have someone present that has been trained to administer it etc. (Vets more than likely).





But with that said over the years we have had Carl work on and look at literally probably 3,500 horses and he has never needed to sedate to get the job done with a minimal amount of stress on our horses.





As far as Nathan's comments, give him a little slack. He is young and still has a lot to learn when he gets out of college, deals with horses in the real world and has to manage a herd or at least a group of horses on a regular basis taking into consideration proper care, costs etc. etc.


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## Joanne (Mar 7, 2009)

I read this man's bio and he had a certificate for dentistry and has done it for quite some time. If you are interested in learning more here is his website:

Bobby Griswold


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## sdmini (Mar 7, 2009)

South Dakota is cowboy country, we raise some of the best "cow" horses in the country. One of the best Barrel horse sires is a home raised horse and we have one of NCHA's best armature cutters so I guess it sort of surprised me when the state passed a bill taxing all horse services with the exception of race horses. We have race track, not many and only a few weekends make up our "season" so how did race horses get exempt? I wonder if it had anything to do with at the time our state vet at the time had race horses.





I have worked with several vets over the years, some better than others but most will concede to the fact that dentistry is not something they spend a lot of time on in school. All of those that I have talked to find this law extravagant and unnecessary but it only take a politically minded few to get something like this past.


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## osu_barrelracer (Mar 7, 2009)

MyBarakah said:


> I think this is SUCH B.S.!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Come ON! They want to start pointing freaking fingers at the equine dentist then they need to ALSO do that with EVERYTHING else if they want to be butt's! Then what about equine chiropracters & acupunter (miss spelled) people! The vets are just MAD because they think the equine dentist are taking away from thier practice! Which is such a CROCK of CRAP! MOST equine or vets are NOT specialized enough to know "enough" to do "good" with a horse's mouth! I think Vet's should go do equine dental school before EVER being allowed to work on horses mouths...... not just threw the vet school..... and even then..... it's VERY questionable!! Were I deal first hand and am the one who MAKES the equine dental floats and get to hear & see first hand about this stinking problem going on....... DO NOT EVEN get me STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In order for an equine chiropracter to be liscensed in the US, they must already be a vet. In oklahoma it is illeagle to do any chiropractic work, acupunture, or massage therapy and MAKE A PROFFIT on it unless you are a liscensed vet.


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## ponyarab (Mar 7, 2009)

Sandra L. said:


> RJRMINIS said:
> 
> 
> > Jeesh what next? Farriers?
> ...


Farriers and Massage therapists are on the list also and this comes from talking to a rep with AMVA so yes they are going after the people that do this which is crazy. In my opinion the Vets can't do it all and I think they may let some of this stuff go thru if they get a cut from the person performing any of the above.


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## wendytx (Mar 7, 2009)

[SIZE=10pt]I received this e-mail concerning Carl Mitz current court case in Tx. If you are in Tx or any state trying to pass this please use this info and pass it on. This is the e-mail in its entirity and a little long but there is really good info and contacts in there. [/SIZE]

Wendy[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

Fellow Miniature Horse Owner;

I am writing you today in order to "spread the news" about the ongoing situation regarding your right to choose. Although this is about dentistry it could easily be about farrier, chiropractic or many other issues (in fact in many states it is).

There is an old saying in the horse world, "no foot, no horse". I would like to update this by saying, *"no mouth, no future".* In fact nothing could be truer in the Miniature horse world. We are the reason that the horse we hold so near and dear has so many dental issues. We need to be proactive in the defense of our right to care for these problems.

As Miniature Horse Performance Trainers, my wife, Lisa, and I have Carl Mitz (a layman Equine Dental Practitioner) check and perform dental services on our horses periodically every year. It is astonishing how many potential problems he corrects. While I understand the need for structure and licensing, I do not understand why the Texas Board of Veterinary Examiners has not required the licensed Veterinarians to learn dentistry before proclaiming that they are the only ones who can perform dentistry. By the way my father and grand father were both practicing Equine Veterinarians.

You will hear many arguments as to why the TBVME is sending Cease and Desist orders to non- Veterinarian Equine Dentists, such as:

*The drug use among Layman Equine Dentists is rampant.*

By the way the drugs are prescribed by veterinarians and the Veterinary Practices Act allows the trainer, you, and me the owner to administer them. It also allows farriers and others to administer the drugs under the "indirect supervision of a Veterinarian". Many Miniature dentists do not even use sedation drugs. I know Carl Mitz doesn't.

*Veterinarians are the only qualified Dentists.*

First of all, NO Veterinary schools require dentistry as a "core curriculum" class. At the most they watch teeth floating for a few moments (sometimes being performed by a layman). But they are not tested for dentistry proficiency on any state board examination to be licensed as a Veterinarian.

*Layman Dentists have no credentials.*

Layman Dentists learn their craft in two ways. They either apprentice with an accomplished practitioner or they go to a Dentistry School. Either way they can obtain credentials through testing by the IAED and this is the same place that Veterinarians continue their Dentistry education.

This is a very important issue and if we don't voice our opinions to our state representatives we are going to lose a right which will affect our horses health, their value, and our livelihood.

Last September The Lawyers representing us in this situation asked the Chair of the Texas Agricultural Committee, Sid Miller, to introduce legislation to remove "livestock Dentistry" from the Veterinary Practices Act. It has been reported that due to election results Sid Miller is no longer on the Agricultural Committee. The following email is from the husband of a Layman Dentist (he had political involvement with John McCain) who resides here in Texas and it includes easy contact information for your state representatives. It also explains what steps we all need to take to put this piece of legislation back on track. Following that is an email from Carl Mitz explaining the bill itself.

Lastly, a reminder that this email was sent to you because you agreed that I could send important miniature horse related matters on to you via an email list. If you no longer wish to receive emails I will gladly remove your name from the list if you so request.

Thank you,

[SIZE=10pt]Gary Barnes[/SIZE]

AMHA Region 6 Director 2009-2011

[SIZE=10pt]From: [email protected][/SIZE]

To: [email protected], [email protected]

Sent: 3/2/2009 2:36:36 A.M. Central Standard Time

Subj: letter to Equine friends

[SIZE=12pt]I'd like some feedback from you on this e-mail. I would go out to my lists, and hopefully everyone else's lists (go viral?). Thanks, Jim [/SIZE]

This is a legislative alert on the issue of whether non-veterinarian horse dentists can practice in Texas. As you may know, The Texas State Board of Veterinary Medical Examiners recently made a big push to put all non-veterinarians who float teeth out of business. The law only defines specific types of care exempt from the broad umbrella of veterinary medicine, and equine dentistry is not one of them. Now legislation has been introduced that specifically defines "floating a horse's teeth" as being a practice defined as something veterinary medicine is not. The wording of the law, HB 378, can be found at the link listed below after my signature.

This is an economic issue and a freedom of choice issue for all horse owners. The Board is forcing you by law to use only veterinarians for all health care of your horses. This legislation will permit qualified non-veterinarian professionals with specialized training to work on your horse

What I would like you and all of your friends to do is call your state legislator and tell them you support this bill. In particular, I would like you to call the members of the Agriculture Committee if they represent you in the legislature. The Committee Members, the counties and cities they represent, their phone numbers, and a link to their web site are listed below.

On March 12 and March 16 we are meeting with the Committee members individually. If you could take the time to call or e-mail these legislators prior to that date, it would amplify our voice and help out efforts to protect your interests. This is now or never. If we don't get this legislation out of committee, we will face two more years of harassment by the Board.

Thank you for your help and support. This is addressing one part of a much broader issue about how your horse receives quality care and how the Board is controlling your choices. Please contact me if you have more questions or comments.

James, husband of the Horse Toothfairy.

[email protected]

LINK FOR THE TEXT OF HB 378:

http://www.legis.state.tx..us/Search/DocViewer.aspx?K2DocKey=odbc%3a%2f%2fTLO%2fTLO.dbo.vwCurrBillDocs%2f81%2fR%2fH%2fB%2f00378%2f1%2fB%40TloCurrBillDocs&QueryText=HB+378&HighlightType=1

The members of the committee are

*Name*
*Counties (Cities) Represented*
*Phone #*
*Web Site Link*
Rep. Yvonne Gonzalez Toureilles - ChairmanAtascosa, Karnes, McMullen. Live Oak, Bee, Goliad, and Jim Wells Counties(512) 463-0645

http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist3...ureilles.phpRep. Charles "Doc" Anderson - Vice-ChairMcClennan County (Waco)(512) 463-0135 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist56/anderson.phpRep. Betty BrownHenderson and Kaufman Counties (Athens)(512) 463-0458 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist4/brown.phpRep. Joe CrabbHarris County (Houston)(512) 463-0520 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist127/crabb.phpRep. Rick HardcastleMotley, Dickens, Cottle, King, Hardeman, Foard, Knox, Haskell, Wilbarger, Baylor, Throckmorton, Young, Jack, Clay, Montague, and Cooke Counties (Wichita Falls)(512) 463-0526 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist6...rdcastle.phpRep. Joe HeflinReagan, Irion, Sterling, Glasscock, Howard, Borden, Terry, Lynn, Garza, Crosby, Kent, Stonewall, Fisher, Jones, Hale, and Floyd Counties(512) 463-0604 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist85/heflin.phpRep. Tim KleinschmidtBastrop, Brazos (part), Burleson, Colorado, Fayette, and Lee Counties (Giddings)(512) 463-0682http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist17/kleinschmidt.phpRep. Tara Rios YbarraJim Hogg, Brooks, Kleberg, Kenedy, Willacy, and Cameron Counties (Kingsville)(512) 463-0463 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist43/Ybarra.phpRep. David SwinfordSherman, Moore, Potter, and Carson Counties (Amarillo)(512) 463-0470http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist87/swinford.php[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE] ----- Original Message ----- *From:* [email protected] *Sent:* Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:38 AM*Subject:* Teeth Floating Bill # 378

[SIZE=10pt]*ATTENTION!*All Horse Owners of Texas: Bill # 378 is now with the Ag Committee. This is the bill to allow equine teeth floating by non-vets. It is *very* important that you contact Representative Charles "Doc" Anderson (District # 56), the vice chair of this committee and tell him to support this bill. Remind him that the State Vet Board gave legislators the responsibility to change this law. Sid Miller is no longer the chair of the Ag Committee - in fact, he is not on the committee at all. Charles "Doc" Anderson contact info: Capitol Phone: 512-463-0135Distric Office: 254-754-3892Email: charl[email protected] **Please Forward This To Every Horse Owner in the State of Texas!* Thank you for your support.Carl Mitz [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]


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## Nathan Luszcz (Mar 8, 2009)

JWC sr. said:


> As far as Nathan's comments, give him a little slack. He is young and still has a lot to learn when he gets out of college, deals with horses in the real world and has to manage a herd or at least a group of horses on a regular basis taking into consideration proper care, costs etc. etc.



I've been caring for my herd (now up to 13 including the ones at home that I manage but don't own) for several years, and have been managing herds of 200+ horses for several years since I graduated graduate school. I just paid a $650 vet bill, not including the vaccines I bought and administered seperately. That $650 included about $200 worth of dentistry done by my veterinarian, including sedatives, which I feel are mandatory for a good job to be done. That included having a wolf tooth pulled on my miniature stallion. It is my professional and personal opinion that veternarians SHOULD be doing dentistry, and I support the law. I have been very fortunate to live near vets (in four states, several in each state) that were known in their practice for their dentristry skill. I guess with all those seperate experiences with a number of vets hundreds and thousands of miles apart in relatively random locations has led me to believe that vets that know what they are doing are NOT far and few inbetween. Like I said, I support the laws limiting veterinary practice in this case. In others, I do not. For example, in Kentucky it is considered veterinary practice to freeze semen. Farrier work I would fight tooth and nail; that is definately a non-vet practice, except in very special cases and there are vets who take care of that work. But dentistry, I have always been outspoken against people badmouthing vets.

As far as the comment I made here, that still applies regardless of what topic you are discussing. If you know you are doing a felony, you need to either fight to make it legal, get an exception, or expect to get arrested if you continue. That's just common sense! This dentist should have known it was a risk, and if he accepted that risk, so be it.

And my dentist (human) is most CERTAINLY a doctor!!!!!! I wouldn't let a non-DMD dentist near my mouth.


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## wildoak (Mar 8, 2009)

> If you know you are doing a felony, you need to either fight to make it legal, get an exception, or expect to get arrested if you continue. That's just common sense! This dentist should have known it was a risk, and if he accepted that risk, so be it.


Nathan, all true of course. They are fighting to get it changed in many states. What you may not be taking into consideration - and I can only really speak for Texas, since I don't know the specifics in other states - is that here *they have not changed the law* for nearly 100 years, _merely the Vet Boards interpretation of that law_. Equine dentists have been practicing LEGALLY here for years, only to suddenly have the rug jerked out from under them because someone who doesn't really understand the ramifications of his actions decided that only vets - with much less dental training - were competent to do the work.

You are fortunate to have so many skilled vets near you. Many are not. You _know _ that a majority of vets do not receive in depth dental training, would you have someone in Texas or Montana or wherever use a vet with no specialty training & perhaps no real interest in doing teeth, over a non-vet with training, tools and years of professional experience? Again, common sense comes in to play and I don't think you would. I know of only one or two vets in my area- one in particular - who specialize in equine dental work. She's great, I use her for my big horses - but she's also 2 or 3 times the price, and uses heavy sedation I find unnecessary in the majority of minis. Common sense is looking better and better.






No one is judging the way you manage your horses, but you might cut the rest of us a little slack.





Jan


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## Barbie (Mar 8, 2009)

My vet has not done any dentistry on my horses, but he has on my friends' horses. He doesn't do it without sedation and charges an arm and a leg. Of course, it is not his specialty. He also uses instruments for big horses.

On the other hand, Carl floated my horses' teeth earlier this year. I was amazed watching him. No sedation, gentle on the horses, very quick and precise and they never put an ear back. I didn't have to wait for any sedation to wear off before I could take them the two hours home. Also, it didn't cost me a fortune. As far as I am concerned I hope Carl can do my horses every year. I would definitely prefer someone who specializes in miniatures any day.

Barbie


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## Royal Crescent (Mar 8, 2009)

> And my dentist (human) is most CERTAINLY a doctor!!!!!! I wouldn't let a non-DMD dentist near my mouth


 Hey Nathan, Your own dentist, or DDS, is not also your family Dr. He is trained specifically to do nothing other then tooth and mouth care. The point was well made that most vets do not have much training, if at all, in equine dentistry, much less have the equip for a miniature. It should be our choice to use someone who we trust to do a proper job on our horses mouths. In this economy, we should not have to pay someone more money to do less then adequate work!Barb


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## JWC sr. (Mar 9, 2009)

On that note, vets receive 6 hours during their total curriculum classes at Texas A&M and at LSU they receive a total 4 - 5 hours. These are two of the best Vet. schools in the country, so it makes me wonder what is taught at the rest of the Vet schools in the USA. OH!

So when someone tells me that only a Vet. is trained to work on teeth it makes me wonder where they are getting their information.





As far as tools are concerned, between Carl and Gary they have designed and helped in the production of many of the various MINI tools needed to do a proper job on these little guys.





Also as far as experience is concerned Carl sees 8 - 12,000 mini's per year. I would say there are NO vets in the world that get that type exposure in 10 years.


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## Minimor (Mar 9, 2009)

I have to point out that all equine dentists are not created equal. There are many that are not in the same category as Carl Mitz and around here I venture to say that there are several vets that have much more experience/training and see many more Minis than do the dentists that we have to choose from.

Here we don't have any dentists that I trust to work on my horses; we do, however, have at least 2 vets that I will go to for equine dental work.


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## hahler (Mar 9, 2009)

I have seen that people have posted about farrier laws

and YES i have been for warned that it is coming for me and my crew

The rumor of the wording of the law states that in order for us to come and trim your horses a vet would have to be standing there the whole time as we trim

THIS CR** HAS TO STOP!!!!!!!

I am having to haul my minis over 2 hours to get them done.

I might get my own float and do them myself since i do my full size and have for years

If anyone wants the vets number that started this mess PM me and i will give it to you (happens to be our rep)


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## JWC sr. (Mar 9, 2009)

Miramor, I will take you saying that your vet gets that kind of exposure as gospel. And if they are the best option in your part of the country, then so be it.

But it makes the point against this law, that I have taken issue with. In that each of us as responsible horse owners deserve the right to choose what is best for our charges. And this law and laws of this type attempt to limit our choices and that I do not like.

Less government intervention is better when it comes to treading on my making the decisions about what is best for my horses and my personal choices in most cases.

Also please realize that this is not about proper care, but rather is a money matter only. In that as a large farm that has the ability to hire Carl as an employee, we will still be able to use him on our horses. The folks that do not have the ability to make him an employee with all the associated W-2" etc. are the ones that are going to get hurt the worst.

It sucks for them and in my opinion is the first step toward making farrier work the next step. I have it on fairly reliable sources that is the intent. It also supposed to include a move against those that do de-horning and castration on cattle. Which is a major problem for the beef industry and subsequently the folks that eat beef.


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## muffntuf (Mar 9, 2009)

So - what I see is regulatory work happening - regulate the equine dentists because they don't have a certificate on the wall??? Make them go get one?

And farriers? Most graduate from a ferrier school - why do we need to regulate their work? Outside of an occassional combined effort between ferriers and vets - they rarely cross each other's paths. So why are they going after this?

And the final supposition - is this all because they are trying to net everything for NAIS - which IMHO will eventually regulate how many foals a year a farm can have per square acreage.

Or hasn't everyone thought that far in advance?


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## JWC sr. (Mar 9, 2009)

I could not agree with you more, this is only the tip of the iceberg if we stand by and allow these folks in Austin and other places to attempt to force us to accept this type legislation.

Not going to happen on my watch anyhow, without a long and protracted fight in the courts if need be.

In the meantime all we can do is let the legislators know how we feel and why. Hopefully mobilizing the ground troops will have the effect we need it to as they are the ones most effected by this stuff.

Then take whatever action is warranted, up to and including filing a law suit against the vet. board which is what Carl and the institute for Justice has already done.


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## latigo (Mar 9, 2009)

Just saw this while searching for another website. If you are interested in voicing your opinion on this check out this website---this law also includes equine massage, chiropractic and "aroma therapy".

www.oklahomaequinedentistrylaw.com


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## Shari (Mar 9, 2009)

Totally stupid.

You do know though.. that ....I think it was in FL... they were trying to pass a law that only Vets could do horses hooves.





The Vet's around here don't like doing horses teeth.. even admitted to me they are no good at it and they are not set up for mini's teeth. I would prefer to use the Equine dentist that knows what he is doing but because so few people get their horses teeth done around here....I can be waiting for years. Sigh ~~~

Feel sorry that the Gov feels the need to do things like this. Doesn't invision good thoughts about this country. Welcome to the new World order.. the USSA...a friendly communist country.





Scary part is... that this is not the only thing going on. They are trying to pass an EPA law that makes any farmer that raises dust to stop or pay a big fine. Even us small gardeners...or folks that have their hay baled. The cutting, turning and baling of hay raises dust.... there for we are not supposed to do it..or put misters on the backs of the machines. What desk jocky maroon thought that one up... you can't cure wet hay.... and you will ruin all the grain crops. Heck... I see more dust coming from just one car going down the dirt road,, than I ever see coming out of the back of the haying tractor.

There are so many stupid laws being flung about with great abandonment, its scary. None of these new laws have been put to the Vote.. heck.. 90% of the people out there don't even know what is going on.

And for the few Farmers and horse owners that know what is going on... the Gov isn't listening to reason. They treat us, like everyone is beyond stupid....is offensive.


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## rockin r (Mar 10, 2009)

This was on our channel 4 OKC news tonight. I do not know who the woman was doing the interview, but they really did not give alot of air time to it. They did show a picture of the man arrested in Ok. and said that he posted a $500.00 bail the day after he was arrested. So sad, more people will be out of work that are more than qualified than a vet to do the procedures needed for a horses mouth. There are not many vets near me that will even do a floating. I called a few vets just to see if they were qualified, some said "Oh sure, I have full size equipment, I am sure I can make it work on your minis"!!!



Not my horses!!!! One (1) told me to call an Equine dentist and asked who I was and where I was located. I was using my cell phone and hung up! I felt like I might be set up. Scared me. So now what, my horses will suffer because there will not be enough money in the world to get an Equine dentist to float their teeth. I have seen big horses with their mouths bleeding after a floating, I can only imagine what they will do to the minis


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## mizbeth (Mar 10, 2009)

Lucky, if you call it that, that his bail was only 500.00.

Hope this has a positive outcome for equine practioners, and yes, SAD is hardly the word. So many unemployed now, loosing their homes, giving their horses away, this is just not the time for something like this to take up "spotlight" in the news! I guess the politicians are trying to keep their jobs too.

B


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## MyBarakah (Mar 10, 2009)

I've not had time to read all the post since the first 3 pages... but I talked to my step-dad about it since he knows of allot of the equine dentist & vets... And we actually have this guy's dental float sitting at the shop... lol!

But we looked up on the internet at this law passed in OK.....

It is THEEEEEEEE most rediculas thing I've ever heard! You guys out to check it out........But it's just NOT for equine dental stuff..... This is a federal offence and it ALSO includes: aninmal pschology (horse training!) aroma therapy (miss spelled), touch therapy (chiropractic/achupuncher) and flower aroma therapy! And my step-dad said this law was passed threw because there's a vet that is in the legislature that got it moved threw.

The is the most ABSURD thing ever! It pretty much laws everything out!

And it's a $5000 per day fine along with up to 4 or 5 years in prison!!!!

This deal needs to get over turned! Because if they want to start pointing fingers...... then they need to not be just making a statement about equine dentist! It then needs to be with EVERYTHING the law is saying NO too!!! Which is ALL a bunch of BULL in my book!!


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