# I can't understand WHY anyone would vote...



## LisaF. (Sep 13, 2008)

I will say I would be called an " Independent" - So, I vote for who I think will do the best job as our President. Ok - I do catch myself voting almost always republican - but, the last two years with the economy, etc. I have been very disappointed in Bush. I did vote for him both times, I will be honest about that.

Even thought no one could get me to vote for Obama. Like I have said in several post - I have many reasons for my decision on why* I would NEVER vote for Obama.*

I have seen some people hold up for Obama all the way - So, my question is WHY?

I am sure I have missed some post - but, I have yet to see one person explain why they would support and vote for Obama.

Please no flames - I am just curious to WHY you would support him.


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## Pepipony (Sep 13, 2008)

Why will I most likely vote for Obama? Because he stands more for my values than anyone else. I used to like McCain, really did, he talked and acted differently a few years back. But then he started to think about running for Pres and he changed, typical political bs.

Obama. If you listen to what HE says and not what people say, he says, they are 2 different things. He talks of change, at times he talks of HOW he will change things. Of course he as well does some typical politician things and doesnt go into detail. I wish he would. He believes , as much as possible without commiting political suicide, that Welfare is a handup, not hand out. He believes in global climate change and is willing to stand up to special interests and deal with it, and not go for the short haul fixes. He believes in a womans right to choose. He believes in gay rights. He believes in federal health care and with the way business people are now ( I get paid 7 figures, but I will get health care and YOU cant) we will need it. I will never be a straight ticket Democrat, Republican or other, as I feel political partys as they have morphed into are a joke. But I do lean more Democrat, at the same time I will vote for Republicans, and have.

I will probably vote for him instead of McCain because I do not like what Bush has done and so far, McCain believes more in what Bush did and I dont think our country can afford 4/8 more years of Bush beliefs.


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## ozymandias (Sep 13, 2008)

I won't vote for Obama because all he talks about is all the programs he is going to invest in...INVEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!with OUR tax dollars !!!!!!!!!!!!! Not mine...not my vote. NOTHING in life is free but he wants to give everything for free and pay for it with the hard earned taxes of the already over taxed lower and upper middle class.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 13, 2008)

He gives me hope that there is a chance that this country can be respected again. Other countries don't fear us, they despise us for killing and torturing people. Obama is a family man that has not cheated on his wife (as far as we know).He wants to get people out and volunteering to get this country strong. He respects people and doesn't run them down if he doesn't agree with them. He wants to try and get health care for people that need it. I have health care, but so many don't. Especially elderly people that deserve our help and respect. And he wants to help find a way for our kids to get an education so that they don't feel like they can never achieve anything. It is nice that someone of color is getting a chance to be president. He seems to respect all americans. Not hold himself up like he is better than they are for whatever reason.

One thing that he would never do is say something like "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran", like killing innocent people, ( theirs and ours) is a joking matter. We as Americans know how horrible ONE incident on 9/11 will effect us forever, think of the ones that have no control and have to live with that everyday.

I think he is so far away from the people in office now and the ones that want to be, I gives me hope.


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## LisaF. (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks for the honest answers.

I have to admit - where did all the Obama supporters go?


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## ErikaS. (Sep 13, 2008)

To me, McCain seems like Bush all over again and I am reeeaaallly tired of Bush and his foreign policies(war in Iraq). Maybe with Obama, we can have a new start and get the country going in the right direction. Maybe...


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## bingo (Sep 13, 2008)

LisaF. said:


> Thanks for the honest answers.
> I have to admit - where did all the Obama supporters go?


I can speak only for myself and my answer is these threads are getting quite tiresome. No one is going to change minds in fact all that seems to be happening is the banter going back and forth is just further cementing everyones ideas.

I personally feel some have been rather insulting and many just are choosing to not participate in a disscussion that will just re hash the exact same things being said on many other threads already on this forum.


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## Laura (Sep 13, 2008)

bingo said:


> LisaF. said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the honest answers.
> ...



[SIZE=12pt][/SIZE]

I've chosen to remain mostly quiet in the political debates here because I have better things to do than be bashed repeatedly for voicing my opinons :::shrug::: I'm sure that comment will get bashed too






I am an Obama/Biden supporter and just like the bumper sticker on my car says "While we breathe, we will hope. Barack Obama 2008" I believe that this country is far greater than what it has become under the Bush administration, that good people can affect change FOR good, that while we are proud Americans, no matter our party affiliations, but that we are also a part of the world community and cannot continue to operate as if our ways have to be the ways of every country and culture... and most especially, that a good man can be elected President. I don't talk much about it because I've done it and been slammed, over and over and over by people attacking my candidate. I admire John McCain's service to this country, I just don't want him as my President.


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## LisaF. (Sep 13, 2008)

OH, I completely understand if someone does NOT want to discuss how they feel about Politics.

I am talking about the McCain/Palin thread - There was a lot of people that was attacking McCain/Palin and saying they were for Obama. Those are the ones I was wanting to hear from. They seemed to feel so strongly why Obama is the best for USA - I just haven't heard a good reason to WHY he would be best for our Country.


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## minimule (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm not for Obama that's for sure. One of my favorite lines of his was this

"We live in the greatest country in the world. Join me in trying to change that"


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## Chico (Sep 14, 2008)

I have the hope I can change opinions. Barack goes into chapters of detail on his ideas and goals in his second book. All the bits you hear in his speeches are gone into. The information is there. You can't discuss such in sound bites. He even discusses this. =-) I support Barack's ideas and am taken in with his spirit and attitude. I truly believe he desires to set this country on the right road for everyone. If folks really want to know his ideas and such read his book and learn about him. Find out what Barack thinks and not "things" you hear. Get it from him. ,

chico


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## tagalong (Sep 14, 2008)

> One of my favorite lines of his was this"We live in the greatest country in the world. Join me in trying to change that"


Except that - he did not say that, *minimule*. It is just one of those myths that became fact along the way. Here it is on snopes.com... a respected non-partisan website that addresses urban legends of all kinds....

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/change.asp

And on factcheck.org - also non-partisan...

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_...o_help_him.html

It did not even originate with Obama - but on a blog - as a snarky comment.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 14, 2008)

This Obama supporter had a gay wedding to go to today



, so I'm just checking in before bed. I'm going to take the lazy route and copy/paste part of an answer I gave someone else.

I'm voting for Obama because his beliefs and policies are in line with my own. I am pro-choice, as is Obama. McCain and Palin both are pro-life, and would like to see Roe vs. Wade overturned. I can't imagine having an abortion myself, but it's not an option I want to take away from other women.

I believe Obama will get us out of this war in a quick but sensible way, and focus on finding our true enemies instead of trying to maintain peace in a region that's been at war longer than America has been America.

I believe that Obama will take steps to improve our economy without taxing us to death. Studies over the last 60 years have shown the economy always does better under a Democratic president.

I believe that Obama will shift our country into a better direction-one where a strong military exists but is not our top priority. Instead we will focus on education and healthcare for our citizens, which is what we NEED to continue to be a strong, thriving nation. And really...if all you have is a country of uneducated, ignorant, unhealthy people, what kind of military will you end up with?

Is Obama perfect? No. No candidate in the history of ever has been perfect (except maybe Washington, who was six feet tall and made of radiation, among other things). But I've been increasingly concerned with America's future, and I think Obama is the best man for the job.

I recommend you check out both candidate's websites, but I'd also like to refer you to http://www.factcheck.org/ which is probably the closest thing to unbiased information as you're going to find.


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## crponies (Sep 14, 2008)

> Studies over the last 60 years have shown the economy always does better under a Democratic president.


Ok, so I did a google search and found several sites that agree with you there. I don't vote by my wallet so it doesn't really sway me. I'm not wealthy (for an American anyhow) so that is not why I usually vote Republican. I will be "poor" regardless of who the president is. Anyhow, I was just wondering if anyone who has studied this has also correlated it all with other events happening at the time such as wars, natural disaster, etc. In other words, have they really tried to see if the statistics are true because of who the president was or if they are true because of something entirely different? Were those researchers just trying to make Dems look better or did they really dig to the bottom to see what the causes were of those up and down times economically for our country? I really have a hard time believing that one man is responsible for our entire economy. What about the fact that Congress is controlled by Dems? What about the fact that the approval rating for that Democratic Congress has been extremely low? I know at one point it was lower than for Bush, not sure about now. Has anyone correlated the state of the economy with who was in charge in Congress? That would be an interesting study also.

Sorry to hijack the pro-Obama thread but I am curious to know about this since it is one of the reasons people give for voting for him.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm not sure if those studies had taken things such as social climate, natural disasters, etc into consideration. It seems like a pretty simple and obvious thing for them to do, though, so I'd hope so. I can double check my info over the next few days and see what I find for you.

My wallet isn't my most important voting issue, but I want an economy that most everyone can afford to live in. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, neither am I on any government assistance. I have food and a roof over my head and ponies. All my needs are covered. Not everyone's in such a good position, though.


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## Sonya (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm surprised this thread doesn't have more posts...when the thread "Why would someone be republican" came up, many had lots to say...McCain supporters gave their reasons, Obama supporters debated every reason that Republicans/McCain supporters gave. So, from that thread I learned why Obama supporters do not like McCain and/or Republicans.....they made that clear, but I have yet to hear much on "Why" you DO like Obama other than the couple that have posted on this thread. So, is the reason you vote for Obama, simply because you don't like McCain? What are the reasons that Obama appeals to you...other than the fact McCain does not...


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## Ashley (Sep 14, 2008)

I honestly dont know at this point who I will vote for. I do know it WILL NOT be McCain.

I cant vote for somebody who thinks I am less of a person then the dirt on the bottom of their shoes.


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## Marty (Sep 14, 2008)

Barack Hussein Obama just does not sound American as apple pie to me.

I just don't trust this whole thing. It smells way too fishy to me.


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## Pepipony (Sep 14, 2008)

His name sounds just as American as McCain to me. We are all imports, unless your family was here pre-1400



. A person cannot do anything about their name, they just have to rise above it if need be. Hubbys family is German/Austrian and more than one is named Adolf ( of course, only those born before 1935). A name is a name and only gains power by how people decide to view it.


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## Cimarron (Sep 14, 2008)

Marty, I am right there with you! Barack scares the heck out of me! Sheila


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## LisaF. (Sep 14, 2008)

crponies - Great post - I would love to know the research on that also.

Marty and Cimarron - I just do NOT get a good feeling from Obama. Besides the fact, I am against a lot of what he says he is for - something about him I can't explain - I just do not trust.

*Sonya - Thank you for explaining far better than I could - what my point was for this thread.*


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## crponies (Sep 14, 2008)

I think it is silly to vote on someone based on their name just as it would be to base your decision on the color of their skin. Those two things have nothing to do with my decision. LowRise, thank you for being willing to look into it deeper. I am not quite sure where to look or what information out there is actually trustworthy. People can put anything they want online.

Interesting post, Mary Lou. I love how they mudsling at each other for mudslinging.




I'll be glad when this election is over. The campaign has been going on since the last one was over it seems, and I for one am tired of it!


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## Pepipony (Sep 14, 2008)

I think politicians take a page out of gossip rags. Morals are out of commercials now, seems that they dont have to tell truths, so long as there is a smige of truth, that is all that matters. Even worse are the ignorant emails. People read them and forget to think for themselves. The email does what it was meant to do, cast doubt. Doesnt matter if there is truth there either. People are smart enough to ralize that email showing the shark jumping after the helicopter is fake, but not smart enough to think that maybe that one about so and so, is just as fake.

So, here we have an election about the most important job for our Country, based on stupid emails, ignorant commercials and party lines. No one thinks, no one actually listens and hears what people say. They only hear or read, what they want. So sad.


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## mininik (Sep 14, 2008)

Marty said:


> Barack Hussein Obama just does not sound American as apple pie to me.
> I just don't trust this whole thing. It smells way too fishy to me.


Wow, what a ignorant statement.


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## Neil (Sep 14, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama's spokesman on Saturday accused Sen. John McCain of "cynically running the sleaziest and least honorable campaign in modern presidential campaign history."


The mere fact that Obama's spokesman finds the need to make this statement seems to me that the McCain campaign is working.

Look back to the early days when Obama was running against all of the Democratic candidats. His speeches seemed very well scripted and very well presented. He captured a whole new audience. Since the end of the two National Conventions he has gone way to far on the defensive. He at the moment seems to be totally off message. I believe that the longer he stays on the defensive and off message and the closer it gets to election day the less time he will have to get his message out. (ed; works for me)

As most of you know I am a conservative and not a liberal so I wouldn't be sucked in by his message no matter how well he can present it. Obama's voting record in the Senate shows him to be the most liberal member of the Senate. As a conservative that really bothers me. (ed; Jill was it you that posted a link to the senators voting records?)

But what is really bothering me now is that if he can't handle the McCain campaign now how is he going to be able to handle the rest of the world once he gets into the Oval Office. If the words of the McCain campaign rattle him how is he going to handle the deeds of the world extreemists. Is he going to sit in his Oval Office and complain about how mean they are to us and they are waging a bad campaign against us, or wait, maybe he will insist that they sit down and debate with him. Meanwhile the extreemists stay on message.


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## SmoothEZ (Sep 14, 2008)

The only thing that I can say is that I can not in all reality vote for someone that will not support the values and ideals of the american people and that starts with showing respect to our flag and our soldiers PERIOD.


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## Neil (Sep 14, 2008)

Ashley said:


> I honestly dont know at this point who I will vote for. I do know it WILL NOT be McCain.
> I cant vote for somebody who thinks I am less of a person then the dirt on the bottom of their shoes.


Ashley, have you considered checking into the Log Cabin Republicans?

Here is a link that might help you.

http://online.logcabin.org/


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## Jill (Sep 14, 2008)

(Neil -- I'm not sure if that's one of the links I shared but it's one I have seen. I'm trying to find it now.)

I'd actually been avoiding this thread, and only skimmed some posts... knowing it has the potential to REALLY fire me up and just wasn't feeling like feeling that way (I mean, any more than I do on my own) this weekend.

Probably everyone knows I'm a Republican and I sincerely support and am behind the McCain / Palin ticked 100%. I am more liberal on some issues (examples: gay marriage and pro-choice) than the ticket but on the issues that really matter the most to ME, it is just so much a no brainer to vote McCain / Palin.

It is hard for me to understand how a person who is informed could feel any other way. I do know that sounds obnoxious, one reason I've avoided this thread, but it's how I feel. I just personally cannot understand why an informed American, a thinking American, would cast his or her vote for Obama.

Jill

[SIZE=8pt][/SIZE]

_* my political thread disclaimer: People who are citizens of other Nations have every right to say what they wish about our United States politics. However it is my choice not to entertain a debate about such with people who are not US Citizens. It's my feeling that people who are not United States citizens are not in a position to truly know what is best for our Nation, what it's like to be a US Citizen, nor to care as deeply as I do about our Nation's political future._


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 14, 2008)

This thread was started by Lisa to ask why people in the U.S. were voting for Obama. She wanted to hear some reasons. Others asked why people who had voiced that Obama was their choice in other threads were not answering in this thread. It is quite plain to see the reason why they aren't taking the bait because once again we have posters using this thread to say why they are not voting for him. The thread would have been better titled why are you voting for Obama or why are you voting for McCain with a stipulation of no mud slinging, no emotional reasons (because his name is not american), etc. etc. One poster (mininik) feels the way I do about that one statement and some of the same kind of statements that are in this thread and other, s. When I voice my opinion about these statement I was basically labelled anti-American which is so pathetically untrue. I like many other Canadians, have family living in the U.S. (mom's brother has been living in NY for over 50 years and is an American citizen, one of my dad's sister's live in Arizona and is American).... Careful Mininik you may end up being labeled unpatriotic. As a Canadian I can not vote for either candidate but I tend to agree with the pundits that the nastiness of this electoral campaign is by far the worse I have ever seen. Hopefully people can now get past this and truly start looking at issues only and decide from those and only those and leave all the other stuff behind. Last night, during my longgggggggggggg mare stare I was watching CNN and they had various people speaking and debating... they showed a clip of a gentleman and I truly was shocked especially in this day and age... the gentleman (and I use that term very losely) "I am a good old boy from the south and I just can't vote for a black man"






. I know he is not the majority who think this way but it was a real eye opener for me, call me naive I guess, but I thought society as a whole had gotten past these kind of prejudices. If he would have said I can't vote for him because he doesn't have enough experience for me, or I don't like his tax proposal.... but no. If I had this man in front of me I would have called him a racist to his face. I probably would have gotten myself punched out but oh well, lol.

Neil, I don't think that Obama's spokerperson who made the comment you quoted is worried. I truly think that he feels that this campaign needs to start focusing on what should be important to the U.S. Not the color of skin, not peoples names, not their gender. The other thing that was said during this show I watched is that people will for the first time indeed be voting with their emotions. I sure hope not.

I wonder how many wouldn't vote for someone lets say who's last name was lets say "Manson" as you might say - he/she is perhaps linked to a serial killer or has the potential to be. Bush may have sounded like American Apple Pie but he was anything but sweet, he almost ruined your country and made it bankrupt. Whoever wins your election, they will have a difficult time paying off the massive debt without raising taxes unless they are going to just get a magicians hat and pull it out, "nothing up my sleeve, presto".

various polls


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## LisaF. (Sep 14, 2008)

Mary Lou - First I want to thank you for letting us debate such a serious issue on the forum.

I also, want you to know I was not ignoring your post - we must have been typing at the same time.

Ok - I hope Mary Lou or noone takes this disrespectful. But, in the speech that Mary Lou posted - please do not tell me it is the comedy show "Saturday Night Live" because in my eyes - Obama made it sound like it was a " sacrifice" to cancel " Saturday Night Live" for something that is going on in USA that is so important. " Saturday Night Live" was brought up several times. To me - no comparison - I could understand maybe explaining once about canceling the show, but that is it.

When I say I am not voting for Obama it has nothing to do with his skin color or his name.

I will say that it is natural to see heated discussions when it comes to political debates.

The only " mudslinging" I have really seen that bothers me is the post from - mininik - Marty and others can speak how they feel without being called "ignorant". It is our right - remember FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

If your only reason to post is call someone names like that I would rather not see it posted.

For sunrise minis - THANK YOU for explaining your reasoning for voting for Obama.

To Jill, Neil, and a few others - I don't mind a debate - I am also not voting for Obama and I have seen a lot of links, etc. posted in " both" thread that just let me know my VOTE is going to the right people...McCain/Palin

Maybe it is just " ME" - BUT, I am seeing very few post that say WHY that Obama would be good for our country. People took the time to say " why" McCain was not - Why can't they take the time to say whey Obama is?

Unless I am missing something - I CAN NOT wrap my brain around why some people will be voting for Obama.


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## littlesteppers (Sep 14, 2008)

Well there it goes..I think Obama is a heck of a good speaker..he has carissma and is very "cool" and thoughtful on what he says..

But for me its what he says..not How he says it..


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 14, 2008)

Freedom of speech applies to all, it has no boundaries nor should it be applied to some and not others.


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## Bassett (Sep 14, 2008)

Neil I know I put one on with the voting records but I can not find it now. Sorry

deleted. wrong website


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## Neil (Sep 14, 2008)

I think Obama is a heck of a good speaker..he has carissma and is very "cool" and thoughtful on what he says..

But for me its what he says..not How he says it.

Oh wait, someone already said that.


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## littlesteppers (Sep 14, 2008)

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490

Here is Obamas voting record


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## littlesteppers (Sep 14, 2008)

Neil said:


> I think Obama is a heck of a good speaker..he has carissma and is very "cool" and thoughtful on what he says..But for me its what he says..not How he says it.
> 
> Oh wait, someone already said that.


OH No..who?? You?? You must be my soulmate than..


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## Marnie (Sep 14, 2008)

And here's some of the other guys record, he voted against equal pay for women, didn't he? I may be wrong. Everything he has been voting against for many years he's now suddenly for?

Tuesday, September 9, 2008

The Truth About John McCains " RECORD "

Here’s the truth about Mc Cains record

-IMMIGRATION: he wrote the bill granting amnesty to illegal immigrants (co-sponsored by Ted Kennedy)

-SOCIAL SECURITY: he voted to give your social security money to illegal immigrants

-TAXES: he voted against the Bush tax cuts multiple times (he has since flip-flopped and has campaigned as a lifelong tax-cutter)

-RHETORIC: he routinely engages in Democratic class warfare against big companies in America, particularly the “evil” drug companies who research cures to debilitating diseases for a profit

-ECONOMY: as recently as December 2007 he admitted “he does not know the economy very well” and needed to get better at it

-1ST AMENDMENT: he wrote the McCain-Feingold campaign finance bill that was declared to be an unconstitutional infringement of the 1st Amendment (co-sponsored by ultra-liberal Democrat Russ Feingold)

-2ND AMENDMENT: he was called the “worst 2nd amendment candidate” by the president of the NRA

-EQUAL PROTECTION: lifelong supporter of affirmative action

-ENERGY TAX: wrote a bill (co-sponsored by his buddy Lieberman) imposing a massive tax on energy which, according to the Department of Energy, would drastically raise the price of gasoline and put 300,000 Americans out of work

-GLOBAL WARMING: supports radical global warming legislation which involved him voting with every Democrat; think only America is responsible to take action, not other superpowers

-JUDGES: he joined forces with Democrats (Gang of 14) to block the Senate Republican’s attempt to confirm conservative, strict constructionist judges; also said Alito was too conservative for his liking

-WAR ON TERROR: fought with Hillary Clinton to demand that terrorists be given a full American trial

-GAY MARRIAGE: he joined liberals to fight against a federal marriage amendment supporting the institution of traditional marriage

-CHRISTIANS: campaigning in 2000, he famously described Christian leaders as “agents of intolerance”

-PRO-LIFE: he filed an amicus brief against pro-life advocates in Wisconsin

-BI-PARTISANSHIP: he met with leading Democrats in 2004 to discuss the possibility of being John Kerry’s Vice-President; publicly considered leaving the Republican Party in 2001 after he lost the primary

-INTELLECT: finished 894 out of 899 in his class in the Naval Academy.

-PROFESSIONAL ETHICS: ringleader of the infamous Keating 5 ethical scandal which cost US tax payers $160 billion (Google it)

-PERSONAL ETHICS: McCain cheated on his first wife after she had a severe accident that left her partially disabled. He then divorced her and married his multi-millionaire mistress, whose daddy bought McCain a spot in the Congress

Posted by Harley at 11:55 AM

I like that Obama wants to help lower and middle class people and that's not $250,000 income a yr in my eyes. I think it's to be admired that after graduating form Harvard, he chose to help the low income people instead of taking a high paying job. I think it's time that someone finds a way for health care reform, I believe he will try to get this through, I believe that he really believes that he can make a great difference in our country, I like his policies on energy, I like his views on most things, not all things. I'll still watch the debates, I think it should be interesting. Now no one has to come back and bash me, my head is still sore from having a few people try to bite it off after the last post that I started. But I'm sure their'll be a few and I already know who they are.


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## littlesteppers (Sep 14, 2008)

Marnie..here is Mccains voting record!

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270

BTW..you made me laugh..you took the truth of oBAMAS WEBSITE


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## Sonya (Sep 14, 2008)

Marnie's, your post is very interesting....and I am not bashing you at all or anyone for that matter, but almost everyone of those items, I can find a link/article/whatever that says differently, I guess it's all in what you choose to believe or what you read and where....You posted tons about what you don't like about McCain or things you felt he's done/will do that are wrong, what about Obama on those same issues...McCain is not the one in question in this post, I know you don't like him that's no secret, that was all hashed out in the other post. Other than that little tiny paragraph about how you think Obama can make a change in America, what else can you say about him?...I want to know why you WANT to vote for Obama.... not why you WILL NOT vote for McCain.

I'm trying to understand....maybe someone could sway my vote, if they could show me why and how...I admit a while back I looked at this election as voting for "the lesser of the two evils", but since I've researched more, I've changed my mind. I feel I am voting for the best candidate now, not the lesser of the two evils, which is very refreshing.


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## Marnie (Sep 14, 2008)

Well, you didn't think I'd be on the old white guys site, did you?? I believe everything here!





Edited to say "Christine, this is just for you, I do, I do like old wrinkled white guys, Nates one, he's 69 yrs old and I'd rather have him than a young hunk any day -- I still need fences built!"


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## littlesteppers (Sep 14, 2008)

Neither candidate..




just the facts..

What you don't like old guys?






going for the hunks? huh?


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## horseplay (Sep 14, 2008)

Marnie, what you posted about McCains voting record is Not the truth, may I ask where you got that? No bashing from me just shocked that you thought this was actually the truth. OH!


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## Sonya (Sep 14, 2008)

> Marnie, what you posted about McCains voting record is Not the truth, may I ask where you got that? No bashing from me just shocked that you thought this was actually the truth


I believe it came from Obama's "official" site....go figure!!!!


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## Ashley (Sep 14, 2008)

With obama in I have a better chance as being seen as a person. Not some sick or mentally ill person. I will have a better chance of seeing my marriage being real. Seen what marriage is really based on, love, not man and women. I have a better chance of seening my family getting equal treatment, seeing and knowing that should something happen to the mother of my child, he/she will be safe with me and not pulled away because he/she was made the wrong way and I am not blood.

With him women get a better chance of being treated equal, getting their own say of what happens to there body, there own choice what to do. Not being over powered by somebody who does not know the situation.

With Obama, I can stand up and have hope that someday all the hate that is direct towards myself and other gay people will slowly go away. I can have hope that I will be welcome in society, churches and not get the looks and comments on how sick I look.

With Obama I have hope that I can possibly be equal to every other "straight" couple out there.


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## littlesteppers (Sep 14, 2008)

I don't understand why people call names..never will..SAD





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Some one once asked me what would it take for me to vote for a Democrat . Knowing the politic corruption on both sides I said If a Politician opened up records to the public WHILE they where in office I.E. How they spend are tax money. Then That same Politician needs to loose the frills I.E. Limos ,Chefs, All the first class BS that they get when elected into office .People forget Politicians work for US .And hardly deserve to live like Kings and Queens on are hard earned tax money! Nancy Pelosi (D) earmarked a 25 Million dollar gift to her husband !!!One of many of her earmarks stealing tax payer money so she can have her lavish life style! Palin is the ONLY Governor who opened up the State spending on the Internet she got rid of the frills like Chefs and fancy cars. She removed property taxes giving that money back to the tax payer. If Sara Palin was a Democrat I would vote for her ! Thank God she is a Republican! Democrats are doing every thing they can to discredit her but end up making fools of them self's . Every shot Obama fires at Palin Drops his poll ratings . That is what happens when your whole campaign is based on words like change but NO track record to back it up!


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## Neil (Sep 14, 2008)

Ashley said:


> With obama in I have a better chance as being seen as a person. Not some sick or mentally ill person. I will have a better chance of seeing my marriage being real. Seen what marriage is really based on, love, not man and women. I have a better chance of seening my family getting equal treatment, seeing and knowing that should something happen to the mother of my child, he/she will be safe with me and not pulled away because he/she was made the wrong way and I am not blood.
> With him women get a better chance of being treated equal, getting their own say of what happens to there body, there own choice what to do. Not being over powered by somebody who does not know the situation.
> 
> With Obama, I can stand up and have hope that someday all the hate that is direct towards myself and other gay people will slowly go away. I can have hope that I will be welcome in society, churches and not get the looks and comments on how sick I look.
> ...


Ashley, I don't know if you read my other respnse to you. There are so many threads these days and don't know which one it was.

The following is from the "Log Cabin Republicans" web page:

http://online.logcabin.org/

(Minneapolis, MN)— Log Cabin Republicans today announced its endorsement of Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) for President of the United States. Log Cabin’s national board of directors voted 12-2 to endorse the Republican nominees for President and Vice President. Log Cabin announced the decision at its “Big Tent Event” during the Republican National Convention in Minneapolis.

“On the most important issue that LGBT Americans faced in the last decade—the federal marriage amendment—Sen. John McCain stood with us. Now we stand with him,” said Log Cabin Republicans President Patrick Sammon. “Sen. McCain is an inclusive Republican who is focusing the GOP on unifying core principles that appeal to independent voters.”

“Sen. McCain showed courage by bucking his own party’s leadership and the president—twice voting against the amendment. He gave an impassioned speech on the Senate floor, calling the amendment ‘antithetical in every way to the core philosophy of Republicans.’ He paid a political price for his vote,” said Sammon.

“Log Cabin Republicans is a grassroots organization and our membership overwhelmingly supports endorsing Sen. McCain,” said Log Cabin Board Chairman Pete Kingma. “Our board and staff members have spent recent months getting input and feedback from our members. The consensus among our members is strongly in favor of an endorsement because of his inclusive record. Our members also support him because he’s a maverick; a trait most recently on display with his decision to select Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate.”

“In recent years, too many Republican politicians have used divisive social issues in an effort to win elections. Sen. McCain is a different kind of Republican. He understands the GOP lost its majority in Congress in 2006 largely because the Party focused on divisive social issues. Sen. McCain knows the politics of fear and division will damage our Party and our nation so he’s focusing the GOP on unifying core principles such as limited government, fiscal responsibility, and a strong national defense,” said Sammon. Read the rest of the news release.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 14, 2008)

Lilsteppers your post is interesting. Did you know that Obama, McCain and Biden have all made available their taxe returns for the public to see? Do a search online. Palin has not and hopefully she will to give full disclosure and transparency, like the others have.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 14, 2008)

> She brings a strong anti-abortion stance to the ticket and opposes gay marriage -- constitutionally banned in Alaska before her time -- but exercised a veto that essentially granted benefits to gay state employees and their partners.


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## tagalong (Sep 14, 2008)

I just wish people would go by facts and not rhetoric or myths... and yet I see people referring to such things as if they were fact.

For instance... it is not true that Obama disrespected the troops in Afghanistan.... you can check that out here on snopes.com ...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/afghanistan.asp

And also on factcheck.org...

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_...fghanistan.html



> BTW..you made me laugh..you took the truth of oBAMAS WEBSITE


McCain's website is not going to give you the 100% truth about Obama, either. It works both ways.

For instance, http://www.factcheck.org/ is a good place to check out a lot of this election campaign circus stuff - from each campaign's less than truthful commercials to what who said when. They are non-partisan and everyone comes under the same scrutiny...

It is refreshing to have a website that exposes the spin that both parties use... and it is a bit of an eye-opener as well...


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## Chico (Sep 15, 2008)

You can NOT tell the "quality" of a person by their sex, color of skin, age, religion or name for goodness sake! You need to learn the quality of their soul by their thoughts and actions. Barack has always showed his integrity by his actions, words and deeds. I'm not being grumpy to all. =-) I don't know how to move their post over.) You do say much about yours though by your silly comment.

Why I'm for Barack in a nut shell:

1. The last eight years have been a sad joke.

2. I want to get out of a war we never should have been in. It was based on lies and thousands of folks loved ones have been hurt or killed for no reason. Our goal should have been going to Iran and attacking the folks involved in 911.

3. I'm pro-education. Barack really wants to focus on teachers and quality education. I've heard nothing from McCain.

4. Health care. Barack wants quality health care for the people. Health care not sick care. Health care should be for all and not determined by insurance companies. Doctor and paitent supervised.

5. Pro-choice for women. I'm not an advocate for abortion but responsible choice. I'm for a women and her doctor making the final choice always. Would you really want not to have the choice in the case of rape, incest or potential risk for the mother? Really? McCain wants to change this. I want to choose how many children. McCain voted against insurance paid birth control.

6. I want my world respected. The world belongs to animals and future generations too. Barack wants to protect our environment.

7. I want equal rights for all. Not just folks who share my ideas. Gay people should get equal rights as me. I know a gay gentleman who couldn't even visit his sick partner in the hospital without a written note signed by his loved one. They had been partners for 10 years!

8. Barack is lowering taxes for everyone making under $250,000 a year. Taxes pay for street repair, libraries, fire stations, etc. Taxes run this country.

9. Barack is for equal pay and rights for everyone.

10. Barack believes in self reliance BUT he believes that in this country we help people when they need it.

11. Barack believes in jobs being created in this country. Companies will be rewarded by tax breaks if they do.

12. Barack believes his presidency is a stepping stone in what this country can and should be.

13. Barack believes in compromise to accomplish things. He wants to actually make things happen.

14. Barack is a uniter. Our country is broken and needs to be repaired and united.

McCain and Palin have been running on untruths and little planning of the future for our government. I hear lines but no facts on what they plan. Mostly just attacking Barack. Why? In my opinion it's because they can't.

chico


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## LisaF. (Sep 15, 2008)

Chico,

I don't know if you were talking to me or someone else -* but, NO ONES comment is SILLY in my oppinion.*

I don't care if they are for Obama or McCain


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 15, 2008)

factcheck.org is an EXCELLENT nonpartisan website to check out.

Voting records-you can use VoteSmart: http://www.votesmart.org/index.htm

On The Issues is another great nonpartisan website I've been researching lately: http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

If you're on the fence about who to vote for they have a short, simple quiz you can take. It's not the be-all, end-all of political opinion, but it might give those of you who are undecided/unsure a nudge in the right direction for you: http://www.speakout.com/VoteMatch/senate2006.asp?quiz=2008


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## Marnie (Sep 15, 2008)

Excellent post Chico. I was at the doctors last week and we were discussing the price of a certain procedure and even she sat their and just shook her head and said something has got to be done about our countrys health care. I believe too that something needs to be done

I have to admit I don't like his name, it's an odd name for given our recent past but it didn't take me long to realize that he can't help what name his momma gave him. (If he had changed it, people would jump on that in a heart beat)

Last night he said that he would be raising taxes on the top 5 % of Americans only (aren't they the ones that usually get the big tax breaks, maybe this would be a good thing??) --- I think it was O Reiley he was interviewing with ---

I have gone over and over your post and I think it is just perfect, I agree all the way, every thing you said, I just didn't have the ability to list it so matter of factly, honest and to the point. Thank you.

I have been reading on Fact Finder and these other sites that are listed and it makes me realize that Barack is definately the one that I will vote for (unless something comes up in the debates) and pray he makes it, hopefully he can put our country on the road of being back together. It'll be a tough job for who ever gets in, I don't even know if it can be done, certainly not in just a few yrs.


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## Bassett (Sep 15, 2008)

Barack Obama did at one time go by the name of Brian Seotoro. He went to college in Indonesia under that name. I can find the item if need be but I am sure everyone already knew this. Just a reminder that he did go by another name at one time.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 15, 2008)

Chico that is excellent!!!! Those are the reasons that I want Obama in office. Not to stay in a war that was started with untruths for possibly another 100 years.

Especially help educating our children. Our school systems are really set up for failure. We shouldn't have to beg for levy money to keep our schools going every few years.


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## littlesteppers (Sep 15, 2008)

O'Reilly had a 4 part interview with Obama..and it was done tastefully..not like a intorigation..I Urge everybody to LISTEN and watch!

http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/index.html


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## LisaF. (Sep 15, 2008)

Ok - I am not bragging here - just stating a FACT

My father in law is a WEALTHY man. He stays up on Politics more than any person I know. I can not ask him, he has such a temper that if I even questioned why he is voting for Obama - I would get a cussing out and be told I was stupid for having to ask. He is NOT that way in everything - but, he IS that way when it comes to Politics and a few other things.

If Obama is not helping the rich - then why would my father in law be voting for him? With my father in law. money comes first. Maybe that is why I will never be wealthy.

I realize this is just one thing to a campaign, but something that I would like to ask him if I could.

I am hoping someone else can help me understand.

Basset - I did not know that so thank you for posting.

littlesteppers - I did not watch that last night so thank you for posting the link. I will be watching it !


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## tagalong (Sep 15, 2008)

> Barack Obama did at one time go by the name of Brian Seotoro. He went to college in Indonesia under that name. I can find the item if need be but I am sure everyone already knew this. Just a reminder that he did go by another name at one time.


*Bassett* - I looked it up... and he was only 6... _not a college student_. He was registered under the name of his step-father. And after 4 years there his mom sent him back to Hawaii... this excerpt is from USA Today...



> Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961 to a white mother and a black father who had met in Russian class at the University of Hawaii. He was an island boy most of his first 18 years, a pudgy kid called Barry who lived in a modest apartment with his grandparents.
> His father, also named Barack Obama, was a scholarship student from Kenya. His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was an 18-year-old from Kansas who went on to become an anthropologist and helped set up loans for poor people to start businesses in Indonesia.
> 
> Their marriage didn't last long. When Barry was 6, he moved to Indonesia, the homeland of his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, another university student his mother met in Hawaii. Obama was 9 when his half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, was born. She now teaches history in a private girls high school in Honolulu.
> ...


I know some bloggers have been repeating the college student sotry - but I doubt that a 6 year old had any say in what name he was registered for school under...

Related item at factcheck.org...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 15, 2008)

Lisa-I'm not sure what's motivating your father, but this is what OnTheIssues (one of the nonpartisan websites) says about Obama and taxes-

http://www.ontheissues.org/Economic/Barack..._Tax_Reform.htm


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## LisaF. (Sep 15, 2008)

Lowriseminis - thank you for thel link- I will take a look.

I do want to make it clear it is my father IN LAW - not being rude - just didn't want anyone to think that me and my dad had a relationship like that. I can talk to my dad about almost anything - he may not always agree...lol. I am thankful that I have a close family.

*I think a lot of my father in law *- he just has some temper issues. It is kind of his way or no way if you know what I mean.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 15, 2008)

Whoops! Sorry about the mix up, Lisa!


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## Charley (Sep 15, 2008)

These are two sites that tell a different story about Obama's community organizer experience. I guess you will let me know if they are credible.

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2...r-was-a-co.html

btw...this one is written by a British lady.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips...elieve-in.thtml


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 15, 2008)

I stopped reading the first one after Godwin's Law came up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law and I'm still poking around the second one.


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## LisaF. (Sep 15, 2008)

Lowriseminis - I havn't had a chance to read it yet - but, that is ok - that was a easy thing to over look. I just didn't want anyone thinking my dad was so hot headed..LOL


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 16, 2008)

On the second article posted by Charley-it's an editorial by a biased writer, but I did read it and gave it some thought.

The general summary I gathered from the article was that Barack Obama is a Marxist by association with a man he's never met due to something he did when he was 24 years old and just out of college in the 1980's.

"The seditious role of the community organiser was developed by an extreme left intellectual called Saul Alinsky."

Alinsky did not invent the role of community organizer, nor did he develop it. Community organizers existed without a title arguably for as long as societies have existed. In a loose way, anyone within a community who does anything to create movement, change, or action in that community could be called a community organizer.

From the Wikipedia article (full disclosure: it IS having it's neutrality disputed as pointed out before): "Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity to each other, are brought together to act in their common self-interest. Community organizers act as area-wide coordinators of programs for different agencies in an attempt to meet community needs for various services. Community organizers work actively, as do other types of social workers, in community councils of social agencies and in community-action groups. At times the role of community organizers overlaps that of the social planners.[1]"

There is nothing about the duties of a community organizer than intrinsically makes them Marxist or anything else.

While Alinsky held Marxist values, he also help to form effective grassroots movements, that are still followed by many today-including Obama. Other notables are Cesar Chavez, and Andrew Vachss who established the National Association to Protect Children.

The Spectator article also claims that Obama himself is a racist, used his time as a community organizer to further his anti-white agenda, and that his church is also racist. You can read a bit about Obama's 'racist' church here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp

Now, what did Obama spend his three years as a community organizer doing? Working with the Catholic Campaign for Human Development, which was apparently concerned with a number of it's members were laid off from steel mill work around Chicago. http://www.usccb.org/cchd/

From TheNation.com: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070416/moberg

"Then he got a call from Jerry Kellman, an organizer working on Chicago's far South Side for a community group based in the churches of the region, an expanse of white, black and Latino blue-collar neighborhoods that were reeling from the steel-mill closings. Kellman was looking for an organizer for the new Developing Communities Project (DCP), which would focus on black city neighborhoods.

Obama, only 24, struck board members as "awesome" and "extremely impressive," and they quickly hired him, at $13,000 a year, plus $2,000 for a car--a beat-up blue Honda Civic, which Obama drove for the next three years organizing more than twenty congregations to change their neighborhoods."

"Obama worked in the organizing tradition of Saul Alinsky, who made Chicago the birthplace of modern community organizing, as translated through the Gamaliel Foundation, one of several networks of faith-based organizing. Often by confronting officials with insistent citizens--rather than exploiting personal connections, as traditional black Democrats proposed--Obama and DCP protected community interests regarding landfills and helped win employment training services, playgrounds, after-school programs, school reforms and other public amenities."

There are tons of articles around about community organizers, about Obama's experience as a community organizer, questioning his effectiveness (even he himself admits he may not have been the most effective, but he does place a lot of importance on what he learned in those years), and all sorts of other things.

But very little real evidence that Obama is a commie.


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## Charley (Sep 16, 2008)

It is pretty weird stuff when you read the links in the articles. I wonder where all this money he is raising in record amounts for his campaign is coming from, certainly not from the people who are out of work or struggling to have food on the table and gas in the car. I also looked up ACORN and Gamaliel Foundation and IAF with whom he had worked and where he still has ties with to this day ....if nothing else it makes for an interesting read.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 17, 2008)

Charley said:


> I wonder where all this money he is raising in record amounts for his campaign is coming from, certainly not from the people who are out of work or struggling to have food on the table and gas in the car.


Turns out some of that info is available online, too.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib....p;cid=N00009638

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politic...0,7641355.story


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## Camelotcavs (Sep 17, 2008)

Marnie said:


> And here's some of the other guys record, he voted against equal pay for women, didn't he? I may be wrong. Everything he has been voting against for many years he's now suddenly for? Tuesday, September 9, 2008
> 
> The Truth About John McCains " RECORD "
> 
> ...



Actually the NRA stated "If elected, Barack Obama would be the most anti-gun president in American history."

NRA-Institute for Legislative Action

The fact that he supported a ban on firearms kept in the home and a ban on right-to-carry permits made my decision for me and thousands of other gun carrying voters.


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## LowriseMinis (Sep 17, 2008)

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Barack...Gun_Control.htm

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/john_m...gun_control.htm

I'm feeling lazy, so I'm just posting links now.


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