# Thinking About Driving



## lcwallis (Mar 13, 2011)

OK, I'm a big chicken at heart. I quit riding our big horses just because the thought of falling off doesn't appeal to me anymore... One of my friends was thrown 7 years ago when we were on a trail ride and broke her back in 3 places.... She's ok now, well as ok as one could be, but since then I havn't ridden... Then a couple of years ago my husband got on a green horse to work her and he was thrown and required surgery on his shoulder...... at my age, the thought of being broken is not really that appealing....

We've had mini's for 11 years and lovin it but only show halter classes.. I have a gelding that is broke to drive, just hasn't done it in about 4 or 5 years....

I've never driven. I wanted to know, how many of the drivers on this forum have crashed in a cart? How bad was it? What caused it --- the horse, another horse, something startled or jumped out at horse??????

Thanks

Lynda


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 13, 2011)

I'll be honest with you- if you drive regularly, it isn't a case of IF you have an accident, but WHEN and HOW BAD. There is a saying that any driver who claims they haven't had one is either new or a liar and that's not far off base.






Horses (as you know) are very unpredictable and no matter how well trained, they are eventually going to spook or do something silly and if your wheels happen to not want to go the way the horse does, well-- oops.





Now, that said... there is a lot you can do to prevent accidents.



Take lessons yourself on safe driving practices. Start with an experienced driving horse who will take care of you and learn the right way to handle and harness him. Buy good safe driving equipment, maintain it well, and hitch up correctly. Use a kicking strap. Buy a cart that is stable, comfortable and safe. Build trust between you and your horse so they will listen, train an iron-clad "whoa" and desensitize them to as many things as you can think of. Drive in a sensible manner and don't do anything outside your comfort zone, no matter who ribs you about it. Wear a helmet! Use driving gloves to help grip the reins and protect your fingers. Carry a sharp pocket knife or seat belt cutter at all times and be familiar with what to do in various emergencies. Nothing inspires confidence like being prepared! Listen to your intuition- if you feel unsafe, you probably are. Unhitch immediately and/or get help. I know so many people who got into accidents because they didn't listen to that little voice in their head or heard it but were afraid of looking incompetent. Better "incompetent" than hurt.



If you think something is off on any given day, don't just dismiss your feelings and drive through it. GET OUT OF THE CART AND CHECK EVERY SQUARE INCH OF YOUR HORSE AND EQUIPMENT! They don't act up for nothing- they're trying to tell you something.

I've been in two major driving accidents, a couple of minor ones and one runaway that could have been very bad if we hadn't happened to be in a large field where I could work him out of it. The first major accident was with my Arab and while we took all the precautions I suggest, starting him from scratch to ascertain his training and taking quite a few lessons together, the former owners who said he was broke to drive forgot to tell us about a major accident he'd been in that had totally traumatized him. When he took that cart off the trainer's property for the first time he flashed back without warning and panicked. He never drove again after that.

The second bad accident was with a nice little mare I was borrowing and I'm not sure I'll ever know what caused that one. Did she get stung by a bee? Did something spook her? I don't know. She took off without warning and we probably would have been fine except she kicked my foot off the roadster stirrup which pitched me out of the cart. If I'd used a kicking strap as I usually do that wouldn't have happened and I'd probably have gotten her under control without incident so I put that one down to failure to use proper equipment.

The minor incidents stayed minor because of all that training I'm so firm about.



In one case I ran the cart too close to a tree and my EE tipped over on a root but I held onto the reins and said "Kody, whoa!" and even though he was upset he stopped. Shaky, nervous, twisted up in the shafts, he still stood there and waited for me to come get him out of it. Yay for trust! Neither of us had so much as a scratch; I just righted the cart, straightened his harness, gave him a scratch and praise and we drove on. I can't tell you the number of times that sort of trust and training have prevented problems for us.

What you need at your stage is a nice calm older horse, maybe even a bit of a dead-head, who will take you down the country road at a nice steady trot and build your confidence. It's true that you can get hurt just as badly driving as you can riding, but the risk is greatly reduced with miniature horses simple because their equipment is so much lighter and the distance to the ground so much less. If you wear a helmet and use common sense you'll probably enjoy many years of safe and happy driving. It's a wonderful past-time and well worth the risk!

Leia


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## lcwallis (Mar 13, 2011)

Thank you for the nice reply Liea...

It does look fun. I do just need to find someone that can help me. Pat Elder is about 45 min away and I hear she will train new drivers and has some nice driving horses.... I think I'll be calling her.

Thank you

Lynda


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## Sandee (Mar 13, 2011)

Leia gave you excellant advice.

I got "older" and riding with arthritis became an issue - let alone the fact my horse was afraid to go anywhere except shows. Our driving lessons consisted of "you know how to ride English - it's the same thing". We purchased an older "been there done that" gelding. He taught us how to drive. He must have been quite something in his hey day. I was told a few years ago at the age of 20 that he was one of the best horses I own. He gives his driver confidence because he does so much of the "driving" himself.

I then graduated to my stallion, who was trained by a professional. He taught me even more about a horse NEEDING the driver to direct and control.

Three years ago (age 62) I trained my mare and she has turned out to be my pride and joy.

So yes, you can learn and have lots of fun and be safe. Driving is really the BEST!!





I've never had an accident - close calls. Stallion ran away with me because we were practicing in the pasture and the "loose" horses spooked so he did too. Hopefully, you'll fall back on all you've learned over the years in riding. Have a well trained horse; stay calm; squeeze and release; stay calm; circle -but not too tight in a cart; stay calm and shrug it off when it's over.


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## ClickMini (Mar 13, 2011)

Yep, do it! You will not be sorry! I have had one tip-over like Leia, and the same result as well. Held onto the reins and got the whoa. Not hurt, just a bit bruised and not even as bad as a fall off a horse. The other one I had was a runaway, my horse was spooked by a deer and ran me up the side of a bush. That one hurt, and stained my clothes, but nothing permanent. Not even for her. She is a great driving horse.

The biggest issue to me is that you do everything in your power to not allow your HORSE to get into a wreck in harness. Your brain and body will probably be fine, but it COULD ruin your horse for driving forever. I have been very lucky in this case. I have two horses that have had a wreck, and both still drive. However the second one has taken a LOT of time and patience to bring back. As Leia said, if you have ANY question. GET OUT OF THE CART AND HOLD ONTO YOUR REINS. And when you are harnessing, if you are by yourself, it is by far the safest if you can use a buckle nose halter to go over the bridle, and tie your horse while you are putting to your vehicle. I do that always now. My horse knows where he is going to start and finish the driving session. It alleviates a huge amount of stress. If I can't tie, I will have a header. Esprit had his wreck when he got away from me while I was putting him to. A loose horse with a cart attached is a very, VERY bad thing. Poor boy ran into the wall, broke the shaft, and continued to gallop madly around with the broken shaft flopping beside him until he finally somersaulted and skidded out from under the boards of my arena. The cart was still on the other side. That was one of the most horrifying scenes in my entire life. Thankfully I am now driving him uneventfully, but he has had flashbacks that were pretty scary. I think he is pretty much past it now. But I consider myself very, very lucky.


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## RhineStone (Mar 13, 2011)

I have been driving for 20 years, and 10 years competitively in ADS. I haven't had a MAJOR wreck, *YET*. Part of the reason I think I haven't had my "turn" yet is because I don't take a lot of chances (not that everyone who does have a major wreck takes chances, I'm just overly cautious and so far blessed by God to not have a major wreck). I have had horses rear in the shafts and flip the cart, but I was able to step out of the cart in the process, I have had runaways that I have been able to bring down before crashing and burning, and I have had "freaked out" horses that I was able to get out of the cart before they really blew. These were all minis.

However, I have seen some major accidents where the cart ended up in pieces as a result, even with VERY experienced drivers. Just last year, we had three friends that ended up in the hospital after major wrecks with big horses. One is still using her walker (she is about mid 50s-early 60s), and the other just started driving a few weeks ago after being in the hospital in a coma with fluid on her brain. Both were wearing helmets. I tell you this not to discourage you from trying the sport, but to convince new drivers that driving isn't something to "play around" with (They weren't playing, and I'm not sure what caused the wreck, but it wasn't the horse). Take it seriously, even with a mini. Someone on the other forum had their son go head first into a tree while driving their runaway mini. Thank goodness he was wearing his helmet and only ended up with a fractured skull and a broken nose. It can happen!

The current issue (March/April) of Driving Digest has an AWESOME article about starting out in the sport of driving! I HIGHLY recommend it for ANYONE wanting to start out in driving, regardless of what type of driving they want to do, i.e. show driving, trail driving, or ADS. It doesn't go so much into potential wrecks, but how to go about getting into the sport safely and without making costly financial mistakes. It summed up what I have been trying to say on here for.....well, as long as I joined this forum!



You can get your own issue from drivingdigest.com

Driving is THE BEST horse sport there is! Done well, it is easy on the body (compared to riding, my butt doesn't hurt after I get done driving), and the people are AWESOME. Carriage drivers will bend over backwards to help someone else.



There were people in their 80s driving in the Old Guard class at Walnut Hill last year!

Myrna


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## RhineStone (Mar 13, 2011)

ClickMini said:


> As Leia said, if you have ANY question. GET OUT OF THE CART AND HOLD ONTO YOUR REINS.


I understand what Amy is trying to say, but I will clarify that being out of your cart while the horse is put to is a recipe for disaster, just like Amy's story illustrates. [i hope I can get this across right], don't just get out of your cart and stand there because the horse is acting up. It's not like a riding horse that you get off of and hold from the ground. A riding horse can be controlled from the ground by the reins and if they move they tend to swing their butt around, but a driving horse cannot swing when attached to the cart. Therefore, when he figures this out, he tends to jump forward knocking over whatever is in his way, and takes off with the cart dragging behind. It is virtually impossible for a driver on the ground to stay with the horse to try to get it back under control.

If the horse is fussy, either be pro-active and look for something bothering him, or ideally have someone else look for something wrong while you stay in the cart for control. Or get him out of the cart all together. A good instructor can help a beginning driver figure out what needs to happen.

A good instructor can also help new drivers choose a good horse for them and the proper equipment as well.



Experienced help is worth its weight in gold for driving horses!

Myrna


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## ClickMini (Mar 13, 2011)

While I agree in general terms, Myrna, with a mini that is getting ready to bolt I would prefer to get out of that cart and pronto. I can stop that bolt if my feet are on the ground, but I can't if I am sitting in the cart. I can get out, and hold the reins until I can get to the horse's head and either calm them OR have someone help me unhitch. This does not apply with a full-size horse. But I do have a certain element of leverage over a mini, especially if I have my feet on the ground. If I stop and stand, I have yet to meet a mini that can actually drag me off my feet.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 13, 2011)

ClickMini said:


> As Leia said, if you have ANY question. GET OUT OF THE CART AND HOLD ONTO YOUR REINS. ... A loose horse with a cart attached is a very, VERY bad thing.





RhineStone said:


> ... and I have had "freaked out" horses that I was able to get out of the cart before they really blew. ...
> 
> If the horse is fussy, either be pro-active and look for something bothering him or...*get him out of the cart all together.*


Yes, just to clarify that is what I meant. Don't wait until the horse is uncontrollable and someone gets hurt. If he's being crazy, you don't know how to handle it and it's escalating, get the heck out of the cart and get him unhitched before he hurts someone! If you think that's "letting him win" then work the heck out of him on the long-lines and maybe hitch him up again later but leave working through that sort of thing in the cart to experts. REAL experts, people with feel and timing and empathy, not necessarily any idiot who charges for training. I heard a horrifying story last year of a normally well-behaved horse that suddenly started bouncing up and backpedaling or spurting forward when you tried to take up contact and the idiot freakin' trainer decided she was just being willful and *beat her with the whip until she had visible welts.*






And the owner was only worried because the horse might have been disqualified from her next in-hand class for them!









Of course it turned out the poor horse had developed a sharp hook in her mouth which was cutting her cheek under that tight cavesson every time someone pulled on the bit but nobody stopped to look for a cause. They just decided she was being naughty and beat her. That kind of "trainer" should no more be trusted with a horse than someone who fights pit bulls.



I can think of about a hundred amateurs I would call "expert" before someone like that.

And even a very good trainer will take the horse out of the cart if not doing so puts someone else in danger. As Amy said, you just don't mess around when there's a weapon strapped to your horse.

Leia


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## Marsha Cassada (Mar 13, 2011)

lcwallis said:


> OK, I'm a big chicken at heart. I quit riding our big horses just because the thought of falling off doesn't appeal to me anymore... One of my friends was thrown 7 years ago when we were on a trail ride and broke her back in 3 places.... She's ok now, well as ok as one could be, but since then I havn't ridden... Then a couple of years ago my husband got on a green horse to work her and he was thrown and required surgery on his shoulder...... at my age, the thought of being broken is not really that appealing....
> 
> We've had mini's for 11 years and lovin it but only show halter classes.. I have a gelding that is broke to drive, just hasn't done it in about 4 or 5 years....
> 
> ...


You don't say how oooolllldddd you are...

I am going on 58 and began driving at age 49. I have had some help and advice from experienced drivers but have basically trained all my horses myself. I dont' say they are National/World level trained, but I have lots of fun with them. I have placed at shows in driving and obstacle driving, however, we do mostly parades, recreational, and school events. I doubt I will ever compete in a dressage event or marathon, but I keep learning all the time and that adds to the fun.

IMO the biggest thing to safe driving is knowing your horse. If he is a hyper horse that loses his mind under stress, then he might be a winner in a breed show, but, for me, he is unsuitable for a reliable and safe drive. You know your driving gelding and what his temperament is, so that is the best way to start. Just becasue he is "broke to drive" does not mean he is a good horse for you.

I have had my horse bolt with the cart and me not in it (Yes, I got out to check on a fitting and didnt' have a good hold on the reins. I know better now). I have had a horse bolt with me in it once, but he quickly came under control and there was no problem. I am too old to be injured, and I don't like pain! so I am more interested in a safe horse than a hot one. I have had a hot one before, and he is no longer in my pasture. There may be that ideal horse out there--safe and hot; maybe yours is. Know your horse. Start with ground driving. Take him for walks and see how he reacts to unexpected things, like dogs, traffic or a covey of quail bursting out. Don't expect too much from him at first. Take your time.


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## RhineStone (Mar 13, 2011)

ClickMini said:


> While I agree in general terms, Myrna, with a mini that is getting ready to bolt I would prefer to get out of that cart and pronto. I can stop that bolt if my feet are on the ground, but I can't if I am sitting in the cart. I can get out, and hold the reins until I can get to the horse's head and either calm them OR have someone help me unhitch. This does not apply with a full-size horse. But I do have a certain element of leverage over a mini, especially if I have my feet on the ground. If I stop and stand, I have yet to meet a mini that can actually drag me off my feet.


This discussion is getting completely off topic, but I need to say that I completely disagree with you, as would the rest of the carriage driving world. Having owned a "bolter" myself, there is NO WAY either me or my 6 ft. husband was going to stop that behavior. If my gelding wanted to leave, he was going to leave no matter if my feet were on the ground or not. The only thing that did stop the bolting was good training. There is too great a chance that horse might get away from me and be dragging around that cart by himself with absolutely no opportunity to get him back under control until he crashes and burns.

I know of a lady that did just this. Her horse was upset by something, so she got out of the EE cart, but left her two grandchildren in the cart while she attempted to get to the mini's head. In the mean time, the mini took off with the two kids in the cart screaming all the way and her running behind it. It took another turnout to catch up to the mini and get it stopped luckily before it crashed.

Stay in the cart unless you are going to unhitch. And, by golly, if it is the accepted way for big horses, that is the way to do it with little ones...or we again risk not being taken seriously, just like the Driving Digest article implied.

Myrna


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## targetsmom (Mar 13, 2011)

Trying to get back on topic...

I am the same age as Sandee and I can really identify with what you are feeling !! But please don't let that stop you from driving, just take it slow. I look at it this way; I try to be as careful as I can be, I ALWAYS wear a helmet (even in the show ring), and I stay well within my comfort zone. I also assess the personality and behavior of the driving horse very carefully - but I know that ANY horse can be spooked when stung by a bee, or scared by any number of things I would not be able to predict. So maybe I have just been lucky so far... My favorite driving horse is one I trained mostly myself, with help from trainers. She was not easy to train because she is SO smart, but I also see that as a plus. She tends to figure things out, so if something startles her (like the blue heron taking off from the pond) she might spook, but has always recovered quickly. This also means I do most of my driving on the farm and at shows in fairly confined environments and the first pass by the pond is ALWAYS at a walk. But I enjoy my driving immensely. (And I never ride my big horse anymore).


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## Marsha Cassada (Mar 14, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> I know of a lady that did just this. Her horse was upset by something, so she got out of the EE cart, but left her two grandchildren in the cart while she attempted to get to the mini's head. In the mean time, the mini took off with the two kids in the cart screaming all the way and her running behind it. It took another turnout to catch up to the mini and get it stopped luckily before it crashed.
> 
> Myrna


I don't think we can be reminded of this too many times! Whatever risks we choose to take ourselves, we have no right to risk our passengers or bystanders. My episode of unmanned cart occured in my pasture--thank God.


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## ClickMini (Mar 14, 2011)

I would just like to add in my own defense that a cart can end up un-manned even if you stay with it. Which is exactly what happened to me. Common sense has to prevail in each scenario, and when I re-play the incident that ended up with me eating dirt and my mare tearing my cart up, it seems like it might have been a better idea to get out when I had that 10 seconds of her almost coming under control before losing her mind. Circumstances dictate your response, and if I were in an area with people or other vehicles, I would probably have a different response. The fact of the matter is that if you are in a mini-sized easy entry (I had a Smart Cart), it is quite easy to take a good hold of the reins, step out, and get a hold of your horse. This would NOT be the case with a full-sized horse. It ISN'T the same. And it wouldn't be the same in a different kind of cart, either. And I would NEVER leave the cart with another person in it. EVER.

At any rate, things happen but I hope the OP realizes that the minimal risks of a crash, provided you have safe equipment and a well-trained horse, are well worth the enjoyment of driving.


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## RhineStone (Mar 14, 2011)

ClickMini said:


> The fact of the matter is that if you are in a mini-sized easy entry (I had a Smart Cart), it is quite easy to take a good hold of the reins, step out, and get a hold of your horse. This would NOT be the case with a full-sized horse. It ISN'T the same. And it wouldn't be the same in a different kind of cart, either.


Still disagree. (We can agree to disagree, right?



) ADS even has a "strong suggestion" that when the horse is put to the cart, a driver needs to be in the cart with reins in hand, unless you are putting the cart to the horse or taking out. The rulebook doesn't say this doesn't apply to minis, and it wouldn't surprize me if it was created with all those mini drivers in mind that like to get out of their cart and hold their horses. If you get out of your cart and hold your horse, you will have a TD or other show official at your side in _seconds_!



(Been there, done that!



Oops.) No amount of arguing that "it's just a mini" is going to make your case. That would be another one of those "reasons" that people would say that mini drivers are looking for "special treatment" and that certain rules shouldn't apply to them. If you want to be accepted like the "big guys", you need to drive like the "big guys".

In the example I gave, that lady _did_ have an Easy Entry and the mini still got away from her. You might be able to argue that you could "control" a little peanut 30" mini, but to say that you can control _all_ minis from the ground is a bit much. The difference in power and weight between a small A and a big B is enormous.

What you do at home is your own business, but I mention this more for the new drivers so they understand what accepted practice is. If you practice right at home, you will do it right at the shows, too.

Myrna


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## ClickMini (Mar 14, 2011)

Yes Myrna, I agree that is "best practice," and I do know better than to do this at an ADS event. And, yes, we can agree to disagree! My "big wreck" DID indeed happen at home. It was the first time Ally ever bolted with me. And I was quite amazed at how quickly we flew over half our property! Hopefully, people don't have to "practice" that too often. LOL Ally doesn't bolt any more, but she was a tough one to drive for several years.


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## Sue_C. (Mar 14, 2011)

> I have yet to meet a mini that can actually drag me off my feet.


Then you just (thankfully) haven't met the one who was trying hard enough.



I didn't think it would be done either, but had it done twice. Once by a gelding that I was training that I ended up telling the owner I didn't think he would ever make a safe driving horse...and the other, the mare in my avatar. When she bolted, I was already out of the cart, and at the backsaddle, about to unharness her. Something spooked her and by God, there was no holding her. Even though pointed towards the side of the barn, she managed to rear, spin, and bolt ahead...dragging me through the gravel, and finally getting the reins out of my hands. Trust me...I hung on as hard and as long as I could...and this is "only" an "A"-sized mare. Thankfully after two runs at full blast around the outside of the arena, I caught her again...she was unharmed...but I was a mess.


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## Field-of-Dreams (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm a chicken, too. And older than you! And yup, I don't bounce anymore... so I drive! Heavens, I remember my first CDE playday, right before cross country. I went in the trailer with my guy, got down on my knees and hugged his neck and prayed that I wouldn't get killed doing this... and of course, I didn't and had a BLAST! My gelding was AWESOME! And he'd never done anything like that either.

The closest I ever came to a wreck was driving a friend's mare. When we were all done we headed back for the barn. We had to go down this hill- I was driving an EE with a show harness- not a good idea. I decided to stop and get out to go down the hillside, but she had different plans and wanted to go to the barn NOW. I tried to stop her, and the EE slammed into her rump. She jumped, stopped and got slammed again. After getting hit a few more times, she just took off down the hill. I managed to stay IN the cart and got her turned around to run UP the hill- I have no idea how I did THAT. Naturally she stopped at the top and I got out and we walked down. Her owner then said "I guess whe shoulda went the other way, huh?" No kidding. After that we used the long driveway. But I never drove that mare again.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Mar 14, 2011)

Field-of-Dreams said:


> The closest I ever came to a wreck was driving a friend's mare. When we were all done we headed back for the barn. *We had to go down this hill- I was driving an EE with a show harness- not a good idea.* I decided to stop and get out to go down the hillside, but she had different plans and wanted to go to the barn NOW. I tried to stop her, and *the EE slammed into her rump. She jumped, stopped and got slammed again. After getting hit a few more times, she just took off down the hill.* I managed to stay IN the cart and got her turned around to run UP the hill- I have no idea how I did THAT. Naturally she stopped at the top and I got out and we walked down. Her owner then said "I guess whe shoulda went the other way, huh?" No kidding. After that we used the long driveway. But I never drove that mare again.


And THAT is why safe drivers use breeching. Then you don't have to make sure you avoid hills!





Leia


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## Shari (Mar 14, 2011)

Lots and lots of ground work, can't tell you how much, good slow training with Voice commands has saved my bacon over the years. I am at the point now, riding or driving, if I did not train the horse, I am not riding or driving it.

For driving, not all horses have the temperament for it. I like nice, steady and ones that tend to think before they react.

I have no interest in speed, flash or bling.

Once you get to the point, do lots of ground driving. I also have mine, drag tires, chains, logs(not to big but to get them used to an odd pull), any thing and everything I can safely have them drag. That way, if there is an issue with the cart, me or what ever, they know to stop no matter what. Make sure even when they are driving well in cart to do refresher drag training.





I flap any kind or size plastic bag, all my horse come running, to me, looking for treats. Toss apples under their hooves/legs body... so if a ball comes under them, they think it is a treat. Paper blowing across the pasture, they go look at it, for a treat...any way you get the idea.

I normally have my son be the header when I am putting Maggie too.

There are ways to make it more safe, if you take the time.

BTW... I really can't take the chance of getting hurt again. If you have been on this list awhile, you will know why.

When I ride, I use a helmet and a Beta3/ASTM rated Charles Owen safety Vest.


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## Field-of-Dreams (Mar 15, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> And THAT is why safe drivers use breeching. Then you don't have to make sure you avoid hills!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


TOTALLY agree- but when we started it was just in the ring. I didn't realise we had to go down the hill until we were RIGHT there, and then it was too late as she wouldn't stop and I couldn't get out!


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## Katiean (Mar 15, 2011)

I have had 1 mare try to run off with me. With a good drip on the reins I pulled back HARD. When that didn't do the job I reverted back to what I learned as an excises person for the standardbreds. Pull back hard and seesaw. She stopped pretty fast. My niece had a mare flip over back wards. She jumped out of the cart and held the horse down and I got the horse out of the harness. We then re-harnessed and did the task all over again. We have never had a cart flip on us to this point. Knock on wood.


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