# Tucker is sick.



## barnbum (Sep 19, 2011)

Facts: Sunday morning Tucker didn't eat his tbsp of TC30. He didn't seem quite himself--didn't want to leave his stall. Once out he didn't want to eat. I checked his temp. 101.8. Gut sounds normal, resp rate normal. Hooves are cold. I called the vet and she said to give Banamine--I did. He was much better after that--nibbled most the day. I left a happy update with vet. Maybe just a teething issue?

At 6:30 I looked out to the pasture and he didn't look good--just standing with his head down. Temp 104.5.Called vet--she was close and here in 10 minutes. She could find nothing wrong--all vitals in normal range. She took blood for a CBC and left SMZs. Called at 9:00. Tucker's white blood cell count is at 2.86. Normal is 6.1-12.4. She seems pretty worried. I gave the SMZs. This morning Tucker was 101.8. I gave him SMZs and Banamine. When I opened his stall door he was eager to get out and eat. He ate for an hour before walking away from the herd to stand.

Called vet. She is using the rest of the serum to run tests for Lyme (came back negative) and Potomac Fever (that will take a few days).

I left work early--got home at 3:30. He was 103 and not feeling well at all. Called the vet. More Banamine. (I'm giving 250 lbs dosage--but he weighs more I'm sure) I added ProBios. He didn't eat. He was off by himself. Later he laid down in the pasture and I sat with him for a while.

He's now in Chloe's stall which is more isolating that his stall. He's eating hay. Temp is still 103. I saw him drink earlier on one of my trips to the barn.

Vet is coming tomorrow to put in a catheter for oxyitet and run another CBC. He will have to be stalled--which I feel will be very stressful for him. She is suggesting a referral to Cornell for a 24 hour IV--but gosh--I'd like to see if it's something that will run its course??? I have a closed herd. I do not visit other horse farms. Farrier was here on the 12th. He may have carried something? All get 3-way and WNV.

Ideas????


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## Jill (Sep 19, 2011)

Karla, one thing I could recommend is to have rubbing alcohol (several bottles) on hand in case you have to douse him to bring down the fever.

Hoping everything will run its course soon and he will be okay.


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## AnnaC (Sep 19, 2011)

Sorry, no ideas, but just wanted to say that I'm sending prayers and good wishes for a speedy recovery.


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## barnbum (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. I wanted to add he is eating a bit and he's had a poop since I stalled him less than an hour ago. His poops are a bit small now due to not drinking as much..but he had several today.

It just seems logical that it's something that will run it's course.


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## Jill (Sep 19, 2011)

Will he drink gatorade? Mine love it like it's cookies... if you want to get him to drink more, maybe offer him a second water bucket with diluted gatorade in it and if he likes it, he may drink more fluid this way (but he he doesn't like it, he'd still have his regular water).


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## Genie (Sep 19, 2011)

We had an upper respiratory infection affect some of our herd this year.

Vet said it can be carried by birds, mosquitos or just in the air. The horse would stand alone, head down, and very lethargic and a high temp.

Good luck with your boy, hope it's a simple bug that will run its course.


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## barnbum (Sep 19, 2011)

Genie said:


> We had an upper respiratory infection affect some of our herd this year.
> 
> Vet said it can be carried by birds, mosquitos or just in the air. The horse would stand alone, head down, and very lethargic and a high temp.
> 
> Good luck with your boy, hope it's a simple bug that will run its course.


Tucker doesn't have a runny eye or nose, or a cough at all. Did yours? None of the other horses have it--thank goodness. I sure wish his temp would go down.



Jill said:


> Will he drink gatorade? Mine love it like it's cookies... if you want to get him to drink more, maybe offer him a second water bucket with diluted gatorade in it and if he likes it, he may drink more fluid this way (but he he doesn't like it, he'd still have his regular water).


We have some--I will try. Thanks.


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## drmatthewtaylor (Sep 19, 2011)

Take your Vet's advice. Take him to Cornell.

What do you have to lose? A little money?

Dr Taylor


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## barnbum (Sep 19, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Sending prayers for Tucker and you, for a quick turn-around to perfect health again.
> 
> I think the Gatorade is a good idea, as is making sure you have something to help bring the fever down. If you think he weighs more than you are dosing for, check with your vet again, to see if he can be given his dosage by weight.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Gatorade is in the stall. He was sniffing it. He peed a nice amount. The barn is cozy, but well ventilated. It's chilly here now, so the temp is good. I'm trying to refrain from taking his temp again--will wait till later. Just had his SMZs.


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## barnbum (Sep 19, 2011)

drmatthewtaylor said:


> Take your Vet's advice. Take him to Cornell.
> 
> What do you have to lose? A little money?
> 
> Dr Taylor


It's not a money issue...it's a logistics/time issue. To me, it just seems to be rushing things. He's eating, drinking, pooping, peeing, eating enough. He's quiet and less active, but he's alert and his ear are always up.

I'd like to give it some time. I've had vets jump to the Cornell idea when a horse had a scratched eye and I couldn't get the ointment in. An older, very experienced vet came and said "here's how you do it." No problem. This vet has only been practicing for a year. Before I head to Cornell with a horse, I'd talk to the more experienced vets at the clinic.

We just sold our trailer--didn't use it for four years. I'd have to find someone to haul him.

I'm a teacher and we just started school a week ago. It's not an easy job to take days off from--many lesson plans to work up.

So you can see--money is not the main issue here.

So--I am trying not to panic--and see if we can turn this around.


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## Matt73 (Sep 19, 2011)

Nothing to add, really, just hoping that all turns out well... Good thoughts for Tucker....


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## Minimor (Sep 19, 2011)

I've had horses here & there that picked up some sort of a virus--they were lethargic, wouldn't eat, in some cases wouldn't drink, had a high temperature. They acted like they had a sore throat; I went on the assumption that it was a respiratory virus, even though there was no cough, no nasal discharge, eyes were clean...didn't call the vet, just offered them various things to tempt them into eating, offered them cold water, warm water...anything they'd drink. This wasn't a whole group at once; one time it was in winter, started in one horse, he was better in 2-3 days, then the next one was off for a couple days, a few days later the third one was off--it didn't affect everyone, only a few. Another time it was summer & just one mare had these symptoms--that was concerning, since she wasn't drinking and it was hot--but on day 3 she started drinking, and then eating a few bites of 2nd cut alfalfa. We hadn't been anywhere, no one had been here, no new horses, so who knows where the bug came from; likely just a flare up of some bug we'd had in the past. I never had blood work done so cannot say what their white blood count was while they were ill. I made the decision to wait it out & turns out that worked out okay for my horses.

Regardless of my past experience, I cannot say that you have the same situation. It's different in that your horse is eating & drinking--with 'my' virus, they didn't eat or drink. It may be something similar, and it may not be. Waiting it out may be fine--and then again it could be entirely the wrong descision.

I do know that if it were my horse & he wasn't showing improvement on day 3 (based on my past experiences) I would be very concerned. I hope he will be okay!


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## LittleRibbie (Sep 19, 2011)

barnbum said:


> It's not a money issue...it's a logistics/time issue. To me, it just seems to be rushing things. He's eating, drinking, pooping, peeing, eating enough. He's quiet and less active, but he's alert and his ear are always up.
> 
> I'd like to give it some time. I've had vets jump to the Cornell idea when a horse had a scratched eye and I couldn't get the ointment in. An older, very experienced vet came and said "here's how you do it." No problem. This vet has only been practicing for a year. Before I head to Cornell with a horse, I'd talk to the more experienced vets at the clinic.
> 
> ...


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## barnbum (Sep 19, 2011)

Minimor--thank you for your reply. I haven't dealt with temps in a bit--but know they can last a few days. I just think two days is not enough time to see how it'll go if he's holding his own.

LittleRibbie--THANK YOU for your support and hug. Felt great.





Just came in from the barn and Tucker's temp is normal--for the time being.



100.6!!! I cried with relief. He's eating--there was another poop in his stall. He's not drinking--but has buckets of water and diluted Gatorade in his stall. I know it could spike again, but I'll take this hope.





If it's normal in the morning--we won't need a catheter! Hope comes easy...I know, I know. But this is as low as it's been for two days--since this started.

I'm headed back out to wash the Karo's syrup off his chin.


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## LittleRibbie (Sep 19, 2011)

Oh the ole'Karo syrup trick!!



glad to hear his temp is down and I will continue to pray that hes playing with the others before ya' know it!!


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## Carolyn R (Sep 19, 2011)

In the 8.5 years of having a small herd of minis, I have had it happen 2-3 times. One here and one there over a few years. If you know your horses, you tend to see it before it gets to the point of snotty noses and such.

It is very likely it is virus. Tips for getting waterinto them, if you feed pelleted feed, 1 part feed to 2 parts water and let it soak.

Some brands take 2 minutes to absorb the water, some take 1/2 an hour. Hay, soak it with hot/warm water for half an hour, drain it and feed it, soaked alfalfa cubes are awesome for getting fluids into them, don't forget to make sure you have a salt block & mineral block next to the water bucket to encourage drinking.

If this has been visibly going on for more than 24 hours then I would doubt it is potomic, he would have a severe case of the squirts.


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## barnbum (Sep 19, 2011)

Carolyn R said:


> In the 8.5 years of having minis I have had it happen 2-3 times. One here and one there every few years. If you know your horses, you tend to see it before it gets to the point of snotty noses and such.
> 
> It is very likely it is virus. Tips for getting waterinto them, if you feed pelleted feed, 1 part feed to 2 parts water and let it soak.
> 
> ...


Yes--the vet has mentioned a few times she's glad he has not had squirts--as you say.



I was thinking that the test might not have been necessary because he'd have the symptoms long before we get the results--but I guess then it'd help with treatment.

One of the vets said to me once that NO ONE knows their horses like I do--which I took as a compliment. If one if off I know it when it happens so everything is caught early. They've said --"good thing you caught this so soon." a few times. So--maybe this is once of those cases, too. It will be hard to not head to the barn if I wake at 3 AM. If he is temp free or it's low in the morning, I will be doing the jig in the barn.



LittleRibbie said:


> Oh the ole'Karo syrup trick!!
> 
> 
> 
> glad to hear his temp is down and I will continue to pray that hes playing with the others before ya' know it!!


This kind of stuff sure reminds me to never take their good health for granted.


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## barnbum (Sep 19, 2011)

Oh--Jill, he drank some Gatorade! So thank you for that reminder. Glad Mark drinks the stuff so it's always here.


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## SammyL (Sep 19, 2011)

Sending prayers for you and Tucker!

I know that I had a mare that presented your horse's symptoms... She was tested for Erlichia. Turned out negative.

Vet could find nothing, all vitals normal. Then one day, one of the other members of the herd had extreme nose discharge, fever, etc. etc.

Treating all symptoms that spread to all seven horses, we gathered that the entire herd had Equine Herpes Virus.

During this time, my coming yearling's blood count dropped to 1.4. She went into the equine hospital for several days, but pulled through.

The yearling had a another occurrence of EHV (this time in the from of neurological symptoms) last spring. But she pulled through that nicely as well.

My horses never leave the farm either.

So just some things to think about? It might be a stretch, but you never know. Good luck!


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## Sandy B (Sep 20, 2011)

I had a 4 year old fully sized quarter mare (fully vaccinated) come down with a high fever and swollen rear legs and lethargic, yet still ate some, drank some and pooped & peed. My vet said as long as she was doing those things and had no other disturbing symptoms to let it run its course but give her Banamine 2 times a day and sweat wrap her swollen legs. It last two days and then she was back to normal and not one other horse got what she had. I think as long as there is no other disturbing signs and he is eating a little and drinking and not getting any worse, to wait a day or two and see what happens. You know your horse better than anyone, go with your gut!


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## Eagle (Sep 20, 2011)

One good way to get them to drink if they are feeling o.k is to cut up an apple or a carrot and put it in a bucket with about 2-3 inches of water. It will take them a while to get all the pieces and they will take in water in the meantime. ( my youngsters love it and I often do this on rainy days to kill boredom if they are stalled)

I am sending prayers that you find out soon and that he makes a full a fast recovery.

Hugs Renee


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## AnnaC (Sep 20, 2011)

Nothing to add, but just wanted to say that I'm still saying prayers and sending healing thoughts for Tucker - hope that temp is still down this morning.


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

Good morning--thank you for the positive thoughts and good wishes--

Tucker's temp was 99.8 this morning--no Banamine in his system, so that's wonderful. He had several poops in his stall and one was pretty soft--still formed--but a little cow ploppy and I'm thinking that's from the Karos syrup. He didn't eat or drink.

I let him out and he ate grass with the herd for 10 minutes then wandered off and stood behind a fence from the herd. I took treats to him and he enjoyed those.

I loved the apples/carrots idea--but we only have tomatoes, lettuce, bananas and nectarines! So, I tried a nectarine in a bit or water, but he didn't like it. He tried! Chloe liked those.





I am taking a half day so will be home at noon with apples and carrots... and see what the vet thinks. She may want to still do a CBC but thank goodness he won't need a catheter.

Thanks again!


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## AnnaC (Sep 20, 2011)

Sounding good!






Fingers crossed.


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

AnnaC said:


> Sounding good!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks--and yes it does. I just checked my husband's garden for a carrot--but he fed them to the rabbits and his garden is done. So--I peeked at Tucker again and he was eating hay with his pals.

Happy sight.


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## Eagle (Sep 20, 2011)

Thats wonderful news, I will keep praying for a total recovery very soon.


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

Okay--this is this wierd, or am I missing something?

I called the vet's office this morning and left the news that Tucker's temp was 100.8 last night and 99.8 this morning. The message said he wasn't drinking or eating well, but he had great poops. The doc was supposed to call back to let me know her thoughts. She left a voice mail (I couldn't answer) and said she said because he wasn't 100% she still thought the catheter and oxyitet was a good idea! I was stunned. Doesn't that seem extreme?

I said no--I didn't want to go that route, but I would definitely be calling if the fever came back.

I bought aples and carrots on the wsay to school--and am leaving for home in 15 min. I'll check replies then--but am I off base??? What would you do??


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## rimmerpaints (Sep 20, 2011)

Im so glad he is better



:yeah



:yeah


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## Eagle (Sep 20, 2011)

hhhmmmm, well I am not a vet so I don't know what to say but I would ask your vet to explain what she wants to do and where that will lead you. Not eating and drinking is not a good thing even if he is still pooping.


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## midnight star stables (Sep 20, 2011)

Karla, I am NO expert, but I believe the same "wait and see" theory with most things too. I too am unsure why your vet still wanted to go a head with the catheter? I would have responded the same way you did, and the only thing I would also do is ask why the vet felt that it was still needed? If it were "just to be on the safe side" then I'd say stick to your guns and continue to watch. Again this is only my humble opinion and I am not a vet... Sending prayers to your boy!!


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

The only thing she said in her voice mail was "because he isn't 100%." But gosh--if he's been sick for two days, I'm thinking he needs a few days to 100% recoup.





Diane--the Lyme test was negative...the Potomac takes a few days to get, but he doesn't have the runs at all--so she should realize it's not that.

I'm home now--he was laying down in the pasture when I drove in. He got up when I came out to the barn and easily walked to his stall. He started looking for strands of hay once in there. I got him some and he's been eating for an hour. He didn't want apples or carrots. Bummer.

Temp is 98.9 That is nearly low--but with humans it's common to go a little low after being high?





He pawed in his stall for a bit and laid down for 2 minutes before getting up for more hay. This is the steadiest he's eaten since this started. I fed him treats--he loved those. I did notice many crumbs fall out when he's chewing them. But he doesn't lose hay.

I had left in the message for the vet the idea of checking his teeth--but he'd need sedating for a good check and I didn't know if she'd want to do that when he's not feeling perfect. She never brought the subject up.

I still feel he's on the mend. That's what the signs are saying....


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Sometimes a sub-normal temp can just mean a virus -- rather than a bacterial infection which sends the temp upwards. And virus' take a little time to run their 'course'
> 
> Sounds like he may be on the mend -- and I agree, after being sick a couple of days, he needs time to 'regroup' and feel 100%.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the vote of confidence!



Soaking hay--great idea! Thank you! I read that earlier on here and hadn't done that yet. Will do that in a few minutes.

Angie--my horse buddy--looked it up and a low wbc count (what Tucker had) means virus, and a high wbc count means baterial... So I have been thinking virus all along.


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

The only thing concerning me is how much he wants to lay down. But, after being sick, I need to lay down more!


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Just keep a close eye on him, like you've been doing! If you notice any subtle changes that seem to be going 'backwards' then you can adjust what you're doing. But sometimes, just not feeling good can cause them to lay down in a place they feel safe.
> 
> Just my opinion, remember.


You have no idea how I appreciate your being willing to share your opinion.





Well--he ate a bunch of baby carrots--he just didn't want them in water.



He nibbled on more hay. He took a nap. Then when he was fussing I opened the door to his stall and he didn't hesitate to escape. Then--and this is the biggest sign he's feeling better--he walked to be with his herd and spent a little time getting even with Mazie for bugging him.



He was standing up front when I decided to muzzle horses and let them on grass out back--and he came at a fast trot to see where everyone was going. I let him graze muzzleless for 10 minutes, then I put his muzzle on too. He kept on eating. No since adding something new to his diet--even 10 min of grass is more than he ever gets. I thought it'd have more water than hay. He always drinks a lot after being on pasture--so hopefully that will happen.

Thanks for the support! I'm feeling better about this every hour. If I didn't know what he'd been through, I might not know there was anything wrong right now.


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## Eagle (Sep 20, 2011)

Karla that is great news, lets keep our fingers crossed that he is on the mend.


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## Miniequine (Sep 20, 2011)

I've been keeping up with his progress. So GLAD to read he is feeling better!!

~Sandy


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## Barbie (Sep 20, 2011)

I just saw this topic and read through it. So glad he seems to be on the mend.

((((HUGS))))

Barbie


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

He's laying down a LOT. He was laying down this morning at 5:00 AM--and he was laying down when I came home and when I put them in the back pasture on grass, he laid down part ot the time but he kept eating. As soon as I brought them up--he went to his favorite spot to lay down again. I took a run and was gone 17 min and when I got back he was in a different place but laying down. He never rolls or looks at his side. He looks content and peaceful.

What the heck??? Is this just part of recouping? Should I worry??

Edited to add I did some research on this and the info all says it's either normal--they are resting--or it's colic--which I feel positive it isn't--or it's a neurological issue like WN and he's been vaccinated.

It's just way more than he should be laying down.

The other piece of this that niggles at me is about a week or more ago when I was taking him for a walk, he started stopping and backing. I assumed he was just trying a new stunt and urged him forward for a walk. He did it on the last two walks we took--the last at least four days before he started this. Now I have to wonder if he wasn't feeling well then--although he was showing no other signs if illness.

I was really hoping once the fever was gone we'd be home free.


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## Genie (Sep 20, 2011)

I had a filly laying down a lot and eating while laying down.......ulcers was her diagnosis


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## Becky (Sep 20, 2011)

Like Genie, I would definitely think ulcers may be the culprit. I would be treating him aggressively for that. Ranitidine 3 X day plus UlcerGard 1 X day. Even if ulcers weren't the first problem, anytime a horse is not feeling well for any reason, ulcers can develop when they are under stress.


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

I called the vet. I got to talk to my favorite one! He said it's all good--poops, eating more, no temp...and that he'd give one more dose of Banamine to ease whatever discomfort Tucker is having. And to keep with the SMZs...and ProBios was fine. He did not seem concerned. He didn't mention ulcers--and I didn't think of that--never have experienced it before. Tucker is showing no signs of pain in his belly. So--I'll see if this helps and see how he is tomorrow and go from there. If he's the same tomorrow I'll call back to ask about ulcers.

Thanks!

I asked about the catheter and he said when fluids are run through it really perks an animal up--so that's why she suggested it.


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## chandab (Sep 20, 2011)

I know we often feel our horses couldn't possibly be stressed, as they live the easy life, but the strangest things seem to stress certain horses, so like the last couple posters mentioned, I'd now look into ulcers. The treatment certainly won't hurt him, and can definitely help.

I have one horses with whom I've learned my lesson; he stays on his supplements year round, including a daily ulcer med (U-Gard pellets work for him); regardless of how well he seems to be doing. He goes down hill fast if not kept up wiht all his extras.


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

chandab said:


> I know we often feel our horses couldn't possibly be stressed, as they live the easy life, but the strangest things seem to stress certain horses, so like the last couple posters mentioned, I'd now look into ulcers. The treatment certainly won't hurt him, and can definitely help.
> 
> I have one horses with whom I've learned my lesson; he stays on his supplements year round, including a daily ulcer med (U-Gard pellets work for him); regardless of how well he seems to be doing. He goes down hill fast if not kept up wiht all his extras.


I will definitely look into this. I had Gastro-Gard in the fridge for Rosie when she had Laminitus--but it was outdated so I tossed it. I am calling the vet tomorrow to pick up more ProBios--so will ask the large animal person to run ulcers by the vet and if he thinks it'd help--I'll add those meds too.

You're so right--I do think my horses lead a very unstressed life so would never have thought of this.




I wish I had read these before I called the vet. Sigh.


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## Matt73 (Sep 20, 2011)

I'd be giving Gastroguard/Omeprazole, too, at this point. Willow developed what we think were severe ulcers after her bout with colitis/PHF last year. 30 days on that and she never looked back (along with other treatments, of course).

P.S. My vet gave me a MUCH cheaper suspension of Omeprazole (the active ingredient in Gastroguard); I can't imagine how much I would have spent if I had to give her that brand name, crazy expensive, Gastroguard for 30 days



.


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## Genie (Sep 20, 2011)

My little filly does not seem like the "ulcer type" if there is such a thing.

It also didn't seem like she was in pain. Just laying down a lot and actually eating grass while laying down.

The ulcer meds. did the trick and I keep a close eye on her. I don't think ulcer meds would hurt anything even if it turns out that wasn't the culprit.


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## targetsmom (Sep 20, 2011)

Even if Tucker didn't have ulcers to start with, with the Banamine and SMZs he has been getting I would consider treating him. Do you have any alfalfa you could give him (in any form)? Or even Tums or Maalox if you can't get Gastroguard right away. The Probios is also good. I know any time I take antibiotics it kinda throws my whole GI system off, so I always eat some yogurt with active cultures to add some "good" bacteria. Probios will do the same thing for him.


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## luvsminis (Sep 20, 2011)

We have been battling the same thing. Just got back from Nationals. Got back on Fri., on Sun. our mare was laying down to eat, and when I took temps 2 horses had 103, 102, and one was normal. On Sun. night I called the vet, and she had me give them a shot of pennicillin and Banamine for the fever. They improved on the fever, but two would not eat their grain. They are now on Uniprim in their food. Since they don't want to eat, I mixed it with applesauce and gave it by syring. Plus, our mare has ulcers now on top of it. Out vet says that white count will go down with a viral infection, but won't with a bacterial. Sounds like your little one has a viral infection. Our mare was even trying to pee at one point, but couldn't. Again, the vet says bacterial. I hope your little one gets well soon. They called us with the price for UlcerGuard......OOCH.......$30.00 a tube, need 16 tubes they said.........OOCH! Good luck, will pray for your little one along with mine.


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> I would offer him straight alfalfa, too (soaked for a while until you see he's drinking well). And ulcer meds are certainly in order. Gastroguard is quite expensive, so many times I use Maalox super strength or a generic and syringe it in the mouth. Mine like the flavored 'mint' kind. I also have a gallon of a pink "stomach soother" that has little or no flavor that I use, too. I make a "cocktail" of the Maalox and stomach soother, with a little added extra Pribios powder and squirt in their mouths. There's a bit of lip or head shaking when I'm done (some just don't like it), but I've had good results with it.
> 
> Continued prayers for Tucker!


Thanks! I appreciate everyone replying! I will get on this right away. I tried putting SMZs in yogurt--but Tucker hated it. He had the last ProBios tonight--and TSC did have the powdered form, but I didn't know what to do with it so I was waiting for the tube. So--rather than GG I could give Maalox and ProBios? That seems easier. He's getting so much syringed into him.



How do I know how much to give--or is too much not a problem?

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited to add--We have Tums kind of tablets! There is fruite flavored and mint--I'm headed to the barn with mint! Yay.

Oh--his temp tonight was 97.9. It's gone down about 1 degree the last three times I've taken it--but it's getting kind of low now.


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## chandab (Sep 20, 2011)

barnbum said:


> Thanks! I appreciate everyone replying! I will get on this right away. I tried putting SMZs in yogurt--but Tucker hated it.


I use no sugar added applesauce and get little to no complaints, I still end up syringing to be sure they get it all, but they are pretty accepting of the applesauce mix. [i know it costs more, but since I use so little, I buy baby applesauce to mix with, then I don't have to worry about what to do with the extra applesauce. I've also used the little single serve cups too. The baby kind is nice, as it comes in resealable containers.]


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## barnbum (Sep 20, 2011)

chandab said:


> I use no sugar added applesauce and get little to no complaints, I still end up syringing to be sure they get it all, but they are pretty accepting of the applesauce mix. [i know it costs more, but since I use so little, I buy baby applesauce to mix with, then I don't have to worry about what to do with the extra applesauce. I've also used the little single serve cups too. The baby kind is nice, as it comes in resealable containers.]


I did the applesauce after the yogurt and it worked, but not as smoothly as Karos. He ate three Tums--right out of my hand tonight. That was easy--how refreshing.





Oh--the doc I talked to said to add Karos to his water, which I did. I checked him 30 min ago and he had a great poop--but hadn't touched his water. Dang it. He was not laying down though! One step at a time.


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## Carolyn R (Sep 20, 2011)

Make sure you soak his hay and basically offer everything soaked or wet down. The laying down can be ulcers or it can be the start of being uncomfortable/colicy (esp. if he isn't drinking) Hand grazing for 10 minutes at a time every few hours is a great way to add hydration too. Just make sure you push the fluids.


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## Sandy B (Sep 21, 2011)

Is he peeing and what color is it? Are you checking for signs of dehydration?

Also a lot of time it seems after a virus that presents with a high temp, when it breaks their temp gets low. My vet said not to worry.

I agree with everyone that says soak or wet his hay, you could also try getting some alfalfa pellets and soaking those until they turn to mush and offer that to him as well. You could try adding molasses to his water, or a really soupy bran mash. Are you giving him any salt or electrolytes?


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## mydaddysjag (Sep 21, 2011)

luvsminis, is your vet going by your horses actual weight? Equine weight tapes arent correct for minis, you have to weigh them on a vet scale, or use a certain formula to figure their weight. Roughly each tube of ulcergard treats a mini 4 times when treating to cure ulcers, so you should actually need 8 tubes (7.5, but you cant buy half doses) I think your vet is probably over estimating your horses weight, and thinking they require half the amount a big horse does. I have yet to see a 600lb mini, lol. Each tube treats 1200lbs when treating ulcers, and Ive found that most adult minis are between 250-300lbs

Once your done treating the ulcers for a month, you can give it as a preventative, and the dose is 1/8 a tube once daily.


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

My morning:

Got up at 4:45 to tend to Tucker's needs. I mixed the SMZs with applesauce for extra fluids. Added Tums to the menu. He was up when I went out, but hadn't drank any water. He had some poops--but not as many as the day before. He left a lot of hay--but I gave him a lot. I got his meds down him and syringed some water into him--2-3 tubes. I know we have to be careful with that--I went slowly. Tempo was 99.

I took him to graze on very dewy grass for 20 minutes. He loved it. Got him back to the barn and fed TC30 to everyone--he ate all his! It's only a heaping tbsp, but he hasn't eaten it for three days. I soaked some hay for everyone--but not for long. I took T's water bucket (has Karos in it) to him to play and he drank a little! Got everyone out for hay.

While I was cleaning stalls Tucker came in and drank heartily from the 16 gal bucket! I held my breath and watched--he drank a long time. I checked--he lowered it 3/4"!! Happiness!! Once he returned to eat hay--he didn't stay long, but wandered off to watch the corn field--he seemed on alert. But he stayed over there, so I took some wet hay over to him and he's eating it there. Kind of sad--looks like he's an outcast, but there was no unusual behavior in the herd--Gypsy was a bossy brat as usual. I had them all a bit closer to keep the hay on the cement pad rather than soil.

So--I'll call the vet to pick up GastroGuard...and ProBios... and go from there. I'm at work until 4:00--I'll take him out to hand graze again then. My husband is off today so when he's here will watch to see how much Tucker is laying down--and email me at work.


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

Sandy B said:


> Is he peeing and what color is it? Are you checking for signs of dehydration?
> 
> Also a lot of time it seems after a virus that presents with a high temp, when it breaks their temp gets low. My vet said not to worry.
> 
> I agree with everyone that says soak or wet his hay, you could also try getting some alfalfa pellets and soaking those until they turn to mush and offer that to him as well. You could try adding molasses to his water, or a really soupy bran mash. Are you giving him any salt or electrolytes?


Thanks for the te mp news--I remember that is the case with humans. He was 99 this morning--perfect. My hay is grass... I don't know where to get alfalfa. I sprinkled salt on his hay/mat and even hand fed him a bit last night. He has a salt block at all times. He peed only once last night--hard to tell the color due to shavings. His cap refill time was slow this morning, but I'm hoping with the 20 min of very wet grass, wet hay, and his drinking this morning, and with adding Tums last night and this morning and GG tonight--things will turn around.

I really hate having to work at times like these. I might be able to get out early--the asst principal is very supportive about these kinds of issue. I'll update when I get home and check him out.

Sigh.

Edited to add I hand grazed him for another 15 min just now---so that will give him more good stuff. He has not laid down since 5:00 AM! Mark is going to feed him a few Tums around noon.


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## kaykay (Sep 21, 2011)

So sorry Tucker isnt feeling well.



> Even if Tucker didn't have ulcers to start with, with the Banamine and SMZs he has been getting I would consider treating him.


I totally agree with that. I have even had a big horse that got ulcers after only two days on banamine.

We have had a couple gas colics recently. I think ours is due to wildy varying temps. Once day its 80 and the next its 60.

Sending good thoughts to Tucker to feel better


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

Thanks Kay--

Vet has left a tube of GastroGuard for me--and I'm to give him one 250 lb dose a day until it's gone. He'll get his first dose tonight. Mark said he saw him lay down once (which is always does in the morning to nap) but he's been eating.

I appreciate the replies/support/good wishes. I'm relieved it's not a life threatening issue--all manageable.

I'll graze him when I get home too.


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## midnight star stables (Sep 21, 2011)

This might be a dumb question, but why do you keep a grazing muzzle on them? This time of year, I don't think there is much grass to get ill on. My horses are out from 8am to 5pm and I have never thought to put a muzzle on mine. So I was just wondering.


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

midnight star stables said:


> This might be a dumb question, but why do you keep a grazing muzzle on them? This time of year, I don't think there is much grass to get ill on. My horses are out from 8am to 5pm and I have never thought to put a muzzle on mine. So I was just wondering.


No dumb questions.





Two Mays ago Rosie got laminitis. She can't be on grass. In order to keep her with the herd we killed the grass in three pastures. Once all the horses were off grass. they lost weight and looked better-so much better. Now the others aren't used to being on grass, so I muzzle them to keep from having more trouble. We just rearranged fencing out back so there will be more pasture open to them in the spring. There's a shadow of green they can munch on--and that's enough. They get lots of hay. Rosie is now content eating hay and watching the others on grass. The others dive into their muzzles because they know where they are going.


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## cretahillsgal (Sep 21, 2011)

I haven't read through all the responses. But in my experience it never hurts to run a cath and get plenty of IV fluids into them. If you are dealing with virus, colic, whatever, it is just simpler to not have to deal with dehydration as well. Especially since it is such a simple thing to run a cath and some fluids.

I would also be giving him plenty of probios, maybe some gastroguard to prevent ulcers. Especially since you are giving him SMZ's and banamine.

Alfalfa is good for ulcer prevention too.

Like I said, I didnt read through all the replies so these things might have already been mentioned or done.


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## Hosscrazy (Sep 21, 2011)

Just letting you know that I'm sending you good thoughts


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## Marty (Sep 21, 2011)

Hey Tucker, what the heck you thinking there boy upsetting your mama? I think that sometimes an incubation period for some cooties to show up in a horse are 7-10 days so that could go hand and hand with your farrier bringing something in. Co-incidence? Maybe. That's probably reaching but an idea to investigate.

I totally understand you. The new local vet here is a joke and couldn't find her assets with both hands and refers everyone to the hospital because of her shortcomings. Hauling to the hospital around here is a major production too; its a long 100 mile ride over dangerous narrow winding roads, usually zero visability between here and there with the fog so I do try everything I can on my own first. I can't haul the trailer so I have to depend on finding the Hus and getting him to do it.

So I do the wait and see thing a little bit too lik everyone else and try to cover my bases but only to a point. I don't wait too long though. I keep penicilin on hand as well as bute and banamine, smz, anti-hist etc. and other supplies just in case. If I know what I'm dealing with that's one case but if its something that I can't put my finger on such as the 104.5 temp, weenie and major wus that I am would have probably made me push the panic button because then I figure I am out of my league. If there is a diagnoisis then I'd have a clue of what I'm up against and the proper course of treatment but I'm not real good at taking a shot in the dark either so its always such a judgement call for me. I do like to start out with probios and ulcer meds because that can't hurt and I think that is very wise of you to add that to the regimine. You can also add gatorade or pedialite to his feed and make a mash. Sounds like you are getting a handle on this and hope Tucker continues to rally. Keep a close on on everyone else and hope this doesn't spread whatever it turns out to be. Crossing the finger and toes for you.

Good luck Tucker and get well soon. This is harder on your mama that it is on you!


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

cretahillsgal said:


> I haven't read through all the responses. But in my experience it never hurts to run a cath and get plenty of IV fluids into them. If you are dealing with virus, colic, whatever, it is just simpler to not have to deal with dehydration as well. Especially since it is such a simple thing to run a cath and some fluids.
> 
> I would also be giving him plenty of probios, maybe some gastroguard to prevent ulcers. Especially since you are giving him SMZ's and banamine.
> 
> ...


It'd help if I was more familiar with the procedure, I'm sure. But she said he'd have to be stalled while it was in and I knew that would create a LOT of stress for him.


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## Eagle (Sep 21, 2011)

It can be done by either a drip or a tube via the nose into the stomach. I have done both for one of my mares that suffers from colic. Both are easy.


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

Eagle said:


> It can be done by either a drip or a tube via the nose into the stomach. I have done both for one of my mares that suffers from colic. Both are easy.


The vet said it would have to be cleaned 3-4 times a day... and I worried about exposing him to more germs with it. I don't know how long she wanted him to have it in, but it was to be for the duration of the oxytet--and keeping him stalled that long--yikes. If his temp didn't break he would have one now--but since his temp was down, I didn't want to go that route.


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> That sounds like she plans on leaving the cath in?? I would certainly speak to your 'favorite' vet, because I would think if it became necessary to hydrate him if could be a 'one-shot' deal to give him a boost -- not a constant thing. Besides, it sounds like he's moving forward, and I, too, would be wary of anything that could be a possible site of infection -- because that would be a bacterial infection, which he certainly does NOT need.
> 
> And is sounds like she's back to the Oxytet -- not the hydration element. Hydration is one thing, oxytet is something different...
> 
> ...



Oh--if it was a one time deal I never would have hesitated--she meant to leave it in! I just didn't want that.

Okay--update--Tucker is better! No temp and he hasn't been down since I got home--well it's only been 45 min, but hey--that's good. Mark wasn't here all day but only saw him down once and that was in the shade with Mazie. He had his first dose of GG--$56 for a 4 dose tube!!



It better work wonders.





Gypsy was down when I came home and she's never down--but she's my gas colic girl. I was just taking Tucker to graze when down she went right in the walkway between two pastures. Got her into her stall--no temp--and she's feisty begging for food. I'm not worried about her--she's done this before. It's 77 out today--so must be the change in temps.


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## Genie (Sep 21, 2011)

You are having quite a time. Must be driving you "buggy".

Hope everyone gets over their issues SOON



While it's horrible to be dealing with this stuff it is helpful for the forum members and gives us lots of hints to store in our memory banks for the inevitability of some kind of issue or another with our animals.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and good luck.


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## cretahillsgal (Sep 21, 2011)

Yeah, my vet will put the cath in their neck. (Just like when they are pulling blood for coggins, except a different needle with a cath that is left in) Then we give the IV which usually takes about 15 minutes. They are usually just held by someone or tied to the trailer and we watch them to make sure they dont get it out.

Ive had several horses who for some reason or another are sick or colicy. And giving them the IV and keeping them hydrated till they feel better has always seemed to help them heal faster.


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Sending prayers for both AND you! This must be frustrating and tiring for you. But you're doing good!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!! The hardest part is wanting to be two places at once! I love my class this year--best one I've had in a long time and I deserve them!



I hate leaving them--but I hate being away from a horse who may need me. Mostly I want to watch Tucker every minute.

Speaking of watching him



he is still laying down now and then but for much shorter times and he gets up to eat. So--improvements there. I'm expecting more positive news onw that he has GG in him. I can't wait to see what he drinks tonight. Another good sign was when I grazed him this afternoon--he fought me on stopping.





Gypsy is already better. All her talking was to get out of her stall-and she hasn't been down since. She needed to have a toot.



Wish I had waited 10 min on the Banimine. lol


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

Genie said:


> You are having quite a time. Must be driving you "buggy".
> 
> Hope everyone gets over their issues SOON
> 
> ...


I don't post much now--but it sure is nice to know all of you are there when I need you. I hope something here will help someone else. The Tums were a great hint and I'll give them every time I start meds. I've never dealt with catheter options or ulcers either. I never knew what low/high wbc counts or temps indicated. This has been very informative for me. When one of my horses is sick or pregnant--I learn a lot.





Funny--Tucker is so used to having his temp taken, I took it while he was standing in the barn--not haltered and with the other horses around. I scratched his rump while we were waiting--then he started to groom with his mama. It cracked me up.


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

cretahillsgal said:


> Yeah, my vet will put the cath in their neck. (Just like when they are pulling blood for coggins, except a different needle with a cath that is left in) Then we give the IV which usually takes about 15 minutes. They are usually just held by someone or tied to the trailer and we watch them to make sure they dont get it out.
> 
> Ive had several horses who for some reason or another are sick or colicy. And giving them the IV and keeping them hydrated till they feel better has always seemed to help them heal faster.


That is good to know--that the "do it once then take it out" option is..well, an option. The second (favrotie) vet I talked to said an IV of fluids can do wonders.

But--leaving it in just spooked me I guess. I was so glad the temp came down when it did so I could say no to it--but if had been a one time deal....


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## barnbum (Sep 21, 2011)

Tucker--what is the big deal? Just drink the danged water!!!



:wacko



:wacko

He's up more--eating more--but he is not drinking enough. His hay is soaked, he's had dew soaked grass--and applesauce and water with meds. He has a bucket with a bit of Karos syrup and a bucket with some Gatorade. He drank a tiny bit of the Gatorade...not enough. He hasn't peed in his stall tonight, yet. He did have one good poop.

WHY is it so hard for him just to drink the blasted water????? :arg! :arg! :arg!


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## Sandy B (Sep 22, 2011)

He may not be drinking as much due to the soaked hay and other liquids you are giving him. I find that my minis that we soak hay on drink way less then the minis that do not get soaked hay. Just a thought. It can not hurt though to have a vet come and run some fluids in. It may help ease your mind and give him a quick pick me up to.


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## barnbum (Sep 22, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> Well, you can contact your vet and tell her/him that you will agree to having him hydrated, as discussed above, but you just want him hydrated -- no meds, and you don't want an in-dwelling catheter. It can't hurt, and could help get him a 'jump-start' and make it less worrisome for you!


I might do that. I woke at 1:15--couldn't sleep wondering if he's lowered the level of his buckets. I head to the barn and he hasn't. And he resting. I gave him baby carrots in water, then took him to graze for 20 minutes. He rewarded me by peeing--about 4 seconds worth. Hard to tell color in the dark--but it wasn't pale. A decent amount--but the first since stalled at 7:00. He grazed with gusto. I cleaned up his wet hay and gave him some dry--the wet makes a mess of his stall, esp if he doesn't eat it all. I dumped both waters and just gave him plain water. He had about half the poops of everyone else. And everyone else is drinking a lot due to it being a warm night. Sigh.

I'm trying. But a shot of fluids is looking like a good idea.

Oh--I wanted to tell Midnight that the grass here is still lush due to rain... not dry at all.


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## barnbum (Sep 22, 2011)

Sandy B said:


> He may not be drinking as much due to the soaked hay and other liquids you are giving him. I find that my minis that we soak hay on drink way less then the minis that do not get soaked hay. Just a thought. It can not hurt though to have a vet come and run some fluids in. It may help ease your mind and give him a quick pick me up to.


Oh--we were posting at the same time. Thanks for that reminder!! Maybe the soaked hay did keep him hydrated enough. Thank you!

I'll talk to the vet tomorrow.

I'd better try to sleep.


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## mrsj (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi there, hope he is back to normal soon. Have you thought of trying electrolytes? Just a thought. Sending you (and him ) hugs xxx


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## AnnaC (Sep 22, 2011)

Along with the wet hay, wet food, wet 'treats' plus the longer spells on lush grass, he may well be getting more fluid than you think.

Not suggesting that you dont talk to your vet about extra hydrating for him, but just thinking about my two boys who are eating dry food, good grass for 3 to 4 hours a day and dry hay ad lib all the time they are in - they never drink more than 1 1/2 to 2 gallons of water each per day. Mind you the weather is cool/cold here - what are the temps like where you are?


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## barnbum (Sep 22, 2011)

Castle Rock Miniatures said:


> How did Tucker do today?? Any update!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Anna and mrsj for your comments. Appreciated. The temps here warmed to 77 yesterday and 73 today--but it's humid.

Thanks for checking in, Diane.





Well--this morning Tucker hadn't touched his water, but seemed perky. I took him out at 5:00 AM to graze--and he was stuffing it in. lol He ate with the herd all morning, until I left for work. When I got home, just for me, he was standing in the front pasture and peed a long stream and from sitting in the van--it looked rather light in color. Mazie was getting in my line of vision.



I fed them all hay and he ate right with the herd. Then I put him out back on grass for 30 min with two buddies in muzzles.

When I brought the three horses off the back pasture Gypsy was a crazy lady and was bucking and leaping with all four hooves off the ground. Tucker ran around with the others for a bit. He's lost a few lbs and looks amazing. I'lhaveatoto get picture. He took my breath away with his movement.

I never saw him lay down once today and he's been with the herd. So many times this week he's wandered to be by himself. Tucked them in at 7:00. I checked them at 8:15 to give him meds and a bunch of carrots--and he was still eating. He had played in one of two water buckets I have in his stall (hey--maybe he wants blue when he's had green???



)--I could tell from the TC30 grains in the bottom. That's his routine--to drink after eating his supplement. He didn't drink much though--barely any.

BUT, there's enough good stuff happening for me to stop worrying and checking him. I made myself NOT take his temp tonight. He's going to be fine. I'll of course keep watch over water intake--as I always do with all my horses. I think he's still tired--not at his usual energy level.

Talking to the vet--she called to say the Potomac Fever test was negative.



She doesn't think he has ulcers at all and said I could save the last dosages of GG because she didn't think he needed them, but I've decided to give them to him over the next few days to play it safe. She said ulcers are more an issue with horses who are shown/raced/on two meal a day so the acid build in their bellies. She thinks this was just a virus. The other vet said we'll probably never know for sure what it was.

Thanks for keeping me company through this!


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## Sandy B (Sep 23, 2011)

Yeah!! So glad he is feeling better!!

Ulcers can develop from any number of things, like weaning, separating, medications, training, showing, racing and many other things. It is not just in show and race horses. I think you are very smart to give him the ulcer meds. It certainly does not hurt and will help his tummy with all the meds he is getting.


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## Eagle (Sep 23, 2011)

Wonderful news



I am so happy for you and Tucker, Keep up the good work


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## AnnaC (Sep 23, 2011)

HOORAY!! great news!!


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## barnbum (Sep 23, 2011)

This morning Tucker had a pee spot in his stall...he lowered his water level in his bucket...he deposited lots of poop...and the poop was normal size! It's been so small from not having enough water. Happiness. I can go to work today and focus on 23 10-year olds without worrying about my boy at home.








I still grazed him on very wet grass for 12 minutes this morning... just to be sure he stays in the right direction.


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## Genie (Sep 23, 2011)

Good news


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## Matt73 (Sep 23, 2011)

Sandy B said:


> Yeah!! So glad he is feeling better!!
> 
> Ulcers can develop from any number of things, like weaning, separating, medications, training, showing, racing and many other things. It is not just in show and race horses. I think you are very smart to give him the ulcer meds. It certainly does not hurt and will help his tummy with all the meds he is getting.


I agree. Ulcers can develop as a result of a virus/meds/etc. So glad to hear he is doing well


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## LittleRibbie (Sep 23, 2011)




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## a mini dream come true (Sep 23, 2011)

:yeah


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## Lindi-loo (Sep 23, 2011)

So glad hes improved ..well done you for being such a great nurse


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## MeganH (Sep 23, 2011)

Great news!


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## Hosscrazy (Sep 23, 2011)

Awesome, awesome news!!!! Big hugs!

Liz N.


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## Jill (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm happy to read the update!!!



:yeah


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## barnbum (Sep 24, 2011)

Sooo happy my boy is 100%!!!!!

As promised--his thank you photos.





Taken today!











Mazie in front--Tucker following.











With Rosie and Mazie--and the mares who you can't see.






Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Genie (Sep 24, 2011)

Looking good!!!!!!!!!!


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## lucky seven (Sep 24, 2011)

What nice looking kids!



Glad to hear he is feeling great again.


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## Eagle (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks for sharing, they are all beautiful.


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## Lindi-loo (Sep 25, 2011)

hes looking great..a gorgeous colour.. Well Done


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## Jill (Sep 25, 2011)

He looks like he's feeling so much better!!!





The other day, I was thinking of "that color" he (and Destiny) have and it's just like milk chocolate


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## Reble (Sep 25, 2011)

He is such a handsome gelding and looks wonderful and such good news..


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## AnnaC (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh Hooray.








So glad he is all better! And thank you for the pictures - great to see everyone looking so well and happy.


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