# Mare with early bagging now dripping milk at 275 days



## ShaunaL (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi again guys,

I posted last week about my mare who had started developing a bag fairly rapidly. She is due April 5. This morning she had what looked like light gray wax beads about 1/8" long on each nipple. They were not yellowish like I've seen on mares before. I fed everyone and when I checked on her again they were gone and she is dripping milk. It is very cloudy grayish-white and slightly tacky. She dove right into her breakfast though. She was put on Regumate last week to slow things down and that seemed to be working until today.

So... she is 275 days today. My vet is on standby but says there is no chance this foal will be viable if born anytime soon.

Anyone have mares that dripped milk then held off foaling for.. say... another couple weeks?? Please??? She is acting normal, eating, very interested in everything I'm doing as usual (she's a nosey little thing).

Hoping and praying that this is a full-term baby from an earlier breeding that somehow snuck through two ultrasounds and a heat cycle but I don't think that's very likely. I'm ready to be proven wrong though!

I do not have a source of colostrum yet - anyone have some frozen they could sell to me, just in case?

Just looking for some hope I guess


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## Becky (Feb 8, 2009)

On no, this is not sounding good. I hate to be an alarmist, but did you also put her on SMZ's and Banamine too? I'd double dose her Regumate. You need to see if you can stop her, but it may be too late. I haven't had one dripping milk that I stopped, but I sure have had them bagging up fast and too early that I prolonged gestation on until the foal was viable using the above treatments. Please keep us posted.

On the brighter side, maybe she did get in foal at an earlier date and is due now.


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## Magic (Feb 8, 2009)

I've had a mare at full-term that was waxed up for a week, and another that dripped milk for several days. Somehow I don't think that is going to make you feel better though, sorry.





I'm with Becky, here's hoping that she settled on an earlier breeding! *fingers crossed*


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## ShaunaL (Feb 8, 2009)

Thank you Becky. Yes, she's on Regumate and SMZs, no Banamine though. I'll increase her Regumate for the next dose if she holds out til then. She's still acting normal so we'll see.

Please be a full-term baby!!!


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## Floridachick (Feb 8, 2009)

How is she? I hope she caught early!


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## ShaunaL (Feb 8, 2009)

Floridachick said:


> How is she? I hope she caught early!


As of now she is just standing in the middle of her stall. She ate a couple handfuls of her breakfast then left it. She hasn't been eating much at one time lately. She eats small amounts through the day. Still dripping milk. I'm heading out there soon to do some cleaning. That sure works with most mares to keep them from foaling


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Feb 8, 2009)

Becky's advice is good, I would double the Regumate, continue the SMZs and start her on Banamine for SURE i... Every day the foal stays inside is a day closer to viability. I had 2 premies last spring. The first was at 284 days and only 9 pounds. Both made it with a lot of work and medical attention.

Robin


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## minih (Feb 8, 2009)

We had a mare in 07 that tried to go into labor at 282 days, she was making a pretty good size bag and we called the vet and he put her on regumate, SMZ's and banamine, we had a foal at 297 days. All was good, she had a pretty little filly that was a little lax on the back legs but had straightened up in a couple of days. The longer you can keep that little one in there the better.


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## mizbeth (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi Shauna

I had a mare foal at 282 days. The mare was a maiden mare and after the foal was born she wanted to turn and watch it each time she tried to nurse so we had to infuse her. The filly was down in her back legs too. It was very labor intensive but we saved the filly and later the dam decided it was okay to let her nurse.

I am thinking your mare settled on the first date. So she will not be so far off. I would try to locate some colustrum though and have it on hand as your Vet may be on another call when the baby is born. The mare is losing all her colustrum now so even if the baby nursed she wouldn't get any. You can give it by syringe, by mouth. I'm thinking 30cc? I would have to check or someone here can tell you what to give. The sooner she is treated the better. At least you are getting notice.....this could have happened suddenly (early I mean) without any warning to you.

Good luck, you can call some local breeders around your area. Perhaps someone will have colustrum they will share with you? It keeps a long time so should be okayeven if from last year, then have your vet out to check her asap.

We always count 11 months from the first breading date to delivery.

Good luck,

Beth


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## ShaunaL (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm watching her on camera. She's a little restless but she's pretty high strung to begin with, so it's hard to tell what is her being uncomfortable and what is her being a spaz. She has been doing some butt pushing on the wall. Still dripping. She hasn't touched anymore of her breakfast but she's been nibbling some of the Bermuda bedding. I gave her some Banamine. Mostly she's just standing in the center of her stall with episodes of walking in circles.

I'm going to post on some boards about the colostrum and call some of the local breeders.

Thanks for all the advice and info! 282 days isn't that far from now - so maybe we can nurse her along until then.

(Edited to add pics from this afternoon)

You can see the drops on the nipples.


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## Joanne (Feb 8, 2009)

287 is the earliest I have seen here.

I know there are some miniature horse breeders that live at high altitudes that routinely have foals early and are successful saving them, but they use the same things that have been mentioned here; TMZ, Regumate, and Banamine.

We are all pulling for you. Keep us posted.


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## Becky (Feb 8, 2009)

From looking at her udder, I'm going to say that you are not going to hold off anything she decides to do. She looks ready to foal NOW! If it's any comfort at all, all of my late term aborters, never did bag up fully. With the bag your mare has, I'm hopeful that she is full term now. I would guess that she will foal within the next 24 hours. Good luck and hope all goes well! Keep us posted.

If she is pacing some now, she is possibly in first stage labor and things could progress soon. I wouldn't take my eyes off of her.


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## ShaunaL (Feb 8, 2009)

I am watching her like a hawk Becky thank you! Wow, I hope she waits more than 24 hours.



(Thanks for the heads up Beth!) She's on camera so I can watch her from the house when I'm not with her. With a one year old, a 5 year old and a 7 year old I don't know what I'd do without the camera for watching! Evenings at the house can be a little busy...

She's being pretty quiet right now.... I'll be up all night with her so I'll kee you posted on changes if I can.


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## Charlotte (Feb 8, 2009)

That udder sure does look READY! I have everything crossed for a healthy full term baby.

Charlotte


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## ShaunaL (Feb 8, 2009)

Seeing an increase in her pacing and starting some yawning and side biting... sigh....


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## Becky (Feb 8, 2009)

Do you have a Breeder Alert or an Equipage? Somebody else who can help you watch? So you can get a bit of sleep? Although, yawning and pacing are pretty good signs she's going to foal soon.

Do you have your foaling kit ready?


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## anyssapark (Feb 8, 2009)

Your heart must be in your throat waiting to see what happens! I wish you all the luck in a safe arrival of a full term foal. My thoughts are with you, please keep us updated


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## ShaunaL (Feb 8, 2009)

I have Equifone but it's NOT WORKING



My husband was looking at it but called called away to an emergency late this afternoon (he's a small animal vet). He'll fix it when he gets home so hopefully it'll be back up for tonight. I also have a foal buzzer that I'll put on her if it's not fixed in time. Better than nothing, although she doesn't like the buzz. She just finished a round of pacing and is standing quietly in the center again.

Yes, I am very anxious waiting right now. My head tells me it's going to be too early but my heart is holding on to some hope. I just wish it was over and we knew already!


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## Brandi* (Feb 8, 2009)

Just now reading this. You have had so much on your plate Shauna! I'm sorry things can't just go the way they are supposed to Hang in there. I will be praying for you guys.


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## White Socks Miniature (Feb 8, 2009)

Sending good thoughts for a healthy, full term baby!


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## REO (Feb 8, 2009)

Wow, she looks and sounds ready to foal tonight (or soon) to me! I'm glad you're there watching her.

I have my fingers crossed that the baby will be just fine! (Please oh please!!)


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## sedeh (Feb 9, 2009)

Her bag sure looks like she's ready to go! I'm praying your dates are off and you have a healthy foal. I don't think you're going to get much sleep tonight!


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## MountainMeadows (Feb 9, 2009)

Hi Shauna

I am sure that there are many of us who are hoping that the dates are off and that this morning you have a healthy baby - please check in and let us all know.

Stacy


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## Becky (Feb 9, 2009)

Yes, anxious to hear how things are this morning. Hope to hear there is a healthy baby!


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## kaykay (Feb 9, 2009)

Sending good thoughts for a full term foal!!!

Kay


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## wc minis (Feb 9, 2009)

Sending good thoughts to you and your mare.


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## ShaunaL (Feb 9, 2009)

No baby yet!!!!!!!



My husband got the Equifone working when he got home so that was awesome. She was fairly quiet with some pacing and yawning until about 3am then OMG the Equifone went off every 5 or 10 minutes until almost 5! She would go down and get right up over and over and over. Wow, I am exhausted LOL Around 5 she quieted down again and has been pretty calm ever since.

She looks about the same but she's not dripping as heavily.



There will be drops on the nipples and if I wipe them away they come back but not the steady drip drip of yesterday. Udder still very full and warm.

I have to leave for work when my sitter gets here but I can watch her on camera from my office (5 minutes from the house) and the alarm will alert me if she lays down. It hasn't gone off since 5.

I'm feeling a little better about things because I found some posts online where mares dripped milk prematurely and with enough Regumate and various other meds held off until their foals were viable. Only a few that I could find but it gives me hope.

I still need to find a source of colostrum because with all the milk she's lost in the past 24 hours and is continuing to lose I think we might need it. I'll call some more breeders today but if anyone knows a source??

Thanks everyone! I'll keep you posted and hopefully she keeps her legs crossed!


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## Joanne (Feb 9, 2009)

Your veterinarian should have a colostrum replacement. Some are given orally and some are given IV.

Check with your veterinarian and make sure he has some.


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## Charlotte (Feb 9, 2009)

Try this:

Sandys Nursemare service has a Colostrum Bank and ships Fed X anywhere in the USA.

[email protected]

http://www.equine-reproduction.com/index.shtml

Charlotte


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## ShaunaL (Feb 9, 2009)

My vet can do a plasma transfer but may not have frozen colostrum on hand. I'd feel better knowing the baby was getting colostrum right away.

Thank you Charlotte! I'm emailing them right now.


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## CheyAut (Feb 9, 2009)

There's a shetland on marestare that hasn't foaled yet. I"m going back in her thread as she's been dripping for awhile...

Jan 22 she started with some wax.

on Jan 24 a lot of wax

Feb 1st she started dripping milk

Still no baby yet... so here's hoping for yours!!!

Jessi


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## palsminihorses (Feb 9, 2009)

ShaunaL said:


> I'm feeling a little better about things because I found some posts online where mares dripped milk prematurely and with enough Regumate and various other meds held off until their foals were viable. Only a few that I could find but it gives me hope.


I'm a little late in posting this, but I wanted to let you know that one of our mares was dripping milk at 296 days last year. I thought that it was way too early (now I know that earlier foals have lived). I started giving the mare SMZ's. I didn't know to also give her Regumate. She stopped dripping milk, and her udder actually went down in size. She continued to carry her foal to 349 days!! Her foal was still *very tiny.* But he made it just fine and is now a fiesty yearling stallion!

Sending prayers your way for a healthy foal! I'll be checking each day for updates.

Pam C.


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## ShaunaL (Feb 10, 2009)

I tested her milk tonight. The squares changed very quickly with the hardness reading dark purple (very high, 1000) and the pH being very light orange (low 6.8). These were the Pool Time 6 way Test Strips. How accurate do all of you find these tests? I've never used them before but I tested twice with different samples and got the same result.

She's still dripping milk. I've been trying to collect some to freeze and not having a lot of luck. I got some though. We are ready to do a plasma transfer regardless.

So, I guess we keep watching and waiting and hoping. Thank you for the posts on mares that have dripped milk like this and held off - they make me feel so much better!



She is eating her dinner right now so maybe that will keep her busy for awhile. Just a few hours til 277 days, let's hope they just keep ticking by.


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## Cavallini Farms (Feb 10, 2009)

Sending good thoughts, I hope she holds on awhile longer!


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## Miniv (Feb 10, 2009)

Interestingly, my husband just added an information page about this on our website.......

http://www.miniatureventures.com/using_milk_test_strips.html

The Ph test is much more sensitive in our opinion......and if yours is 6.8 it probably means you have a day to two more to go.

Your mare is going through so many classic signs and steps, it really does make me wonder if she wasn't bred earlier than you think. I sure do hope so.


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## ShaunaL (Feb 10, 2009)

Miniv said:


> Interestingly, my husband just added an information page about this on our website.......
> http://www.miniatureventures.com/using_milk_test_strips.html
> 
> The Ph test is much more sensitive in our opinion......and if yours is 6.8 it probably means you have a day to two more to go.
> ...


Thank you! That page was very helpful. The strips I have must be the cheaper model LOL the lowest on there is 6.8. So I won't know if it's lower with these I guess. The square was lighter orange than the chart one. Well, that's kind of a bummer, next time I'll make sure to buy strips where the pH sensitivity goes down to 6.2 or so.

On the bright side, Whitney and I will know each other VERY well at the end of all this


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## mizbeth (Feb 10, 2009)

Hi

Good to hear she is holding on. I'm with Maryann though and feel that she must have been bred earlier. Also have heard that as a mare ages, her gestation time gets shorter?

Keep us up to date. How does her milk feel, the consistancy of it? Is it sticky? If very sticky , to the touch almost immediately and feels very syrupy she will foal soon. If not sticky (although I cannot imagine that, since her milk is so yellow), it could be a while - as in days. I personally do not care for the strips. I think milk testing - fingers is more accurate for me. I have friends that swear by them though, so I guess it is just what you feel comfortable with?


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## Basketmiss (Feb 10, 2009)

I just found this thread, how is everything going??


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## ShaunaL (Feb 10, 2009)

Milk testing fingers - I love that Beth! Yes, her milk is very sticky. She had a quiet night, seemed more comfortable than the other night.


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## PaintedMeadows (Feb 10, 2009)

Oh Shauna. I pray she holds out for you!! I keep checking in every hour or so to see how she is doing. Hugs to you both!! Praying for a safe birth and a beautiful healthy baby!!


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## MountainMeadows (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm with Beth on this one - she seems to be making all the classic changes that would indicate that she actually was bred on an earlier cycle -- hope so! Just keep up with the Regumate/SMZ/Banamine plan and keep us all posted -- we are all rooting for you and your little mare!

Stac


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## Barbie (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm pretty sure you can buy a powdered colostrum if you can't locate any frozen. Seems like Tractor Supply had it when a friend of mine needed it.

Good luck - hope she holds off.

Barbie


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## ShaunaL (Feb 10, 2009)

Well she is STREAMING milk but acting normal. She was very agitated the other night and seems much more comfortable now so I think maybe the doubled Regumate and other meds are working well. Thanks to Charlotte




we have frozen colostrum being Fed-Ex'd right now from Sandy at Nursemare in NY!! Thank you Charlotte! It should get here tomorrow. So at the very least we will have it on hand for the future. Sandy said it should last at least 2 years and that some places are now saying it's good for 3 years.


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## shelly (Feb 10, 2009)

GREAT NEWS on locating colostrum!!!!



How does her vulva look tonight? Can you post pics yet?


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## Miniv (Feb 10, 2009)

Well, Thank God for Charlotte!



Yes, the colostrum (if kept frozen properly) can be good for up to 2 years. They used to say it was only good for one year......Three? I would suspect is doubtful, but don't know personally.

Glad your girl is keeping her legs crossed for your sake...... I still feel she is probably farther along than you think.


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## mizbeth (Feb 10, 2009)

Oh Shauna, this is good news!

She is holding, colustrum is on it's way. She will be just fine, I just know it! She will give you NICE filly to boot! Is this the pretty black mare I like so much? I'm not sure I caught or remember her name.

Still, keep a close eye on her........never mind sleep, you don't need any


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## REO (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm glad you have colostrum on the way! I'm sure you know this, but maybe some new people reading this don't, so I'm saying.......don't nuke it to thaw it out. That would kill the needed antibodies it has. Thawing at room temp is best. Or *Maybe* carefully in barely warm water, but not in hot water.

Good luck!!!


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## Brandi* (Feb 10, 2009)

So glad she is holding off


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## Becky (Feb 10, 2009)

Shauna, keeping my fingers crossed here that you will be fully prepared for whenever she decides to foal. Still sounds like it could be anytime. I'll look forward to continued posts from you.


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## Connie P (Feb 11, 2009)

Sounds like you are very well prepared. I am keeping my fingers crossed for a great delivery and a healthy foal for you.


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## Kim~Crayonboxminiatures (Feb 11, 2009)

Hope you have a healthy foal soon! Good thing you have some colostrum on hand, that is wonderful!

You can see instructions and photos on the pool test strips for testing mares milk on my webpages, usually they have to drop one more ph square before foaling is really close (24-48 hours). I use the pool test strips, and feel the texture/color of the milk. As well as all the other signs.

Good luck!!


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## WhiteTailsMinis (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm watching this thread closely - like everyone I too have fingers crossed all turns out well for you! She's really putting you through the paces. Sounds like you are on top of your game and fully prepared. I'm anxious for an update - how did she do overnight?

I'd like to ask everyone a question please? I don't want to intrude on this thread - but asking based on the conversations within. Others reading this forum may be curious as well as to your definition of "bred earlier and baby on time".

Throughout this thread, some folks mention that perhaps she bred on an earlier date....by this are you referring to just a matter of days within her cycle or a full cycle the previous month? Sounds like a dumb question maybe but just a matter of days within her cycle wouldn't put her a month earlier would it? I'm understanding this mare has a due date based on when she was bred - which is being calculated as early now. So if she was witnessed breeding with a due date, how would she have bred earlier?

It was my understanding that if they settle (are bred), then they don't breed again a month later. Please shed some light on this for me as I have a mare that looks ready to pop - she delivered early last year. I witnessed her being bred on 26 May .... which would make her due 21 April (330 days) or 3 May (342 days) according to the foaling calculator. *BUT* my concern is she was *put with the stud on 8 April*. My husband says no way did she breed in April if I witnessed her breeding on 26 May. But she looks as though she'll go long before April/May timeframe. I'm watching her closely mainly because she delivered early last year - and by that I mean earlier than what the breeder told me she was expected. The breeder could have been off on their calculation.

Just curious to know what you're actually referring to when you say "she may have bred earlier".

Hope all is well on the homefront - eagerly waiting your upate on she's doing now


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## Mona (Feb 11, 2009)

WTFminis said:


> Throughout this thread, some folks mention that perhaps she bred on an earlier date....by this are you referring to just a matter of days within her cycle or a full cycle the previous month? Sounds like a dumb question maybe but just a matter of days within her cycle wouldn't put her a month earlier would it?
> It was my understanding that if they settle (are bred), then they don't breed again a month later. Please shed some light on this for me as I have a mare that looks ready to pop - she delivered early last year. I witnessed her being bred on 26 May .... which would make her due 21 April (330 days) or 3 May (342 days) according to the foaling calculator. *BUT* my concern is she was *put with the stud on 8 April*. My husband says no way did she breed in April if I witnessed her breeding on 26 May. But she looks as though she'll go long before April/May timeframe. I'm watching her closely mainly because she delivered early last year - and by that I mean earlier than what the breeder told me she was expected. The breeder could have been off on their calculation.


Yes, they are referring to an earlier cycle, not just days. And it is definately true that sometimes even mares that "settle" on their first heat cycle, can come back in and breed again after that. I hand breed so know exact breeding dates, and it has happened to me. It also happened with my very first mini I ever bought. She was in foal and the foal not expected until a certain date, and she ended up foaling just a couple weeks after moving here! Was not expected that soon, because she did breed the second cycle, so the breeder was going by that date. My vet said it is quite common for this to happen.


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## AppyLover2 (Feb 11, 2009)

That's a good point what. Once a mare is bred do they come back in season while they're pregnant?

Oops - Sorry - Mona and I were typing at the same time.


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## WhiteTailsMinis (Feb 11, 2009)

Mona - thank you so much for the info - I need to really watch her then as she very well could have bred in April. Especially since her 8 April turnout was her foaling heat and she could have even taken that early rather than the end of April.

I'm sure to correct hubby on this too! Thank you and based on that - then I do hope that the lil mare we're all so closely watching on this thread is truly on schedule and no problems will arise.


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## Mona (Feb 11, 2009)

WTFminis...another thing to keep in mind is all mares are different, and some will foal "early" every year. That does not mean they foal an underdeveloped baby...it just means that they "bake" their baby faster than most mares.



I had one mare that I referred to as my "10 month mare" as every foal she foaled at 10 months rather than 11 months. It was always fully mature for being born...it was just her way. Sounds like maybe your mare might also be one of the these.


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## REO (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree with Mona.

Yes, don't count on all mini mares going 330 days. (11 months)

10 months is 300 days! And we have plenty (at our place) that foal around that time. Ours foal around 300-320 days. It's always best to "expect" them to foal "early" and then you won't miss it. And just may save the life of your foal and/or your mare.


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## PaintedMeadows (Feb 11, 2009)

Do you all use 330 days as your calculation for due dates? I used 340 but start watching closely at 300 days. Should I be changing that?


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## rabbitsfizz (Feb 11, 2009)

I actually use 300 days to calculate, nowadays.

I have one mare that goes just under 300 days every time, and then some that go around 310 ish.....it is always a bit of a worry!!

But about the breeding when in foal...YES definitely, I had one complete line of mares, daughter, mother, grandmother and two close cousins, ALL of which cycled when in foal, and the three closely related mares took the stallion at least one month into their pregnancy, and one mare took the stallion three cycles into her pregnancy and drove him NUTS for two more months squirting and flirting but refusing him when he offered.

This was one of the main reasons I stopped "natural breeding" as the stallion finally lost it and beat the mare up quite badly...I was a bit naive at the time and had not realised what was going on.

The next year I had her Ultra sounded and so I know she was in foal, and then watched her, and was thus able to work out what was going on.

Very annoying, especially if natural breeding is your only option.

Nowadays I do both, so the stallions get to run with mares and foals, but rarely actually breed loose, and I have the advantage of knowing exactly when each mare was bred.


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## icspots (Feb 11, 2009)

I personally use 320 days with minis, if they go at 300 I consider them 3 weeks early. Mine have proven to be "early" foalers I guess, but I've never had a special needs premie!


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Feb 11, 2009)

I use 330 as a "general" due date, but do start watching/night checking at around 300 (of course depending on other signs the mare is giving as well) I've already started checking udders on our girls for change, and the first gal is due May 13th for her 330, but she's starting to develop swelling in front of her udder like she has the previous two foals, so expecting a tad earlier baby from her than the two previous colts since she's already starting to "drop" udder.. Last two foals were born 346 and 355 days, so right now I feel she'll be right around 320-330 days with this foal, but of course can change if she decides to speed up or slow down.. My second gal due is dropping udder as well and shedding like CRAZY, she's due on May 13th at 330, but last baby was a filly born on 318 days, and at this rate, I'm expecting her to go earlier than 330 as well.. We have two others mares, who feel like they too are starting to relax in the udder..

I do have one mare in a similar situation as this mare.. She was the first mare we covered for the season, beginning of June, then showed heat again and allowed us to hand breed 3 times (every other day during heat). Based on LBD she'd be due May 31st at 330 days (first foal was born at 333 days).. We confirmed her in foal on November 11th with WeeFoal test, so based on LBD she would have been 139 days or had she taken on first breeding around 30 days further, she's absolutely HUGE right now, biggest out of the four, and much bigger than her dam who is around the same height, same build but due May 15th.. Since she's so big we started thinking *maybe* she did settle on the first set of covers and not the second, but second guess it because she allowed the stallion to cover her several times during the second heat.. Of course since I waited to test until after the 120 days based on LBD with the WeeFoal that won't help to determine how far along she is.. So now reading through all these I'm wondering if maybe she IS in fact 30 days farther along than we think


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## Katiean (Feb 11, 2009)

AppyLover2 said:


> That's a good point what. Once a mare is bred do they come back in season while they're pregnant?
> Oops - Sorry - Mona and I were typing at the same time.


They may not come back in heat but can appear to when pregnent. I had a mare that settled on her first heat per the vet at 4 months. After she was bred month 2,3 and 4 just like clock work. The vets question to us was "what makes you think she is not pregnant?" We said "she keeps comming back in heat." We took her back to the stud to show him. He said she was not in heat and her breeding should be stoped. Now this was a big horse so preg testing was easier. But my point here is if the mare likes it she will do it. We were hand breeding this mare.


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## Mona (Feb 11, 2009)

PaintedMeadows said:


> Do you all use 330 days as your calculation for due dates? I used 340 but start watching closely at 300 days. Should I be changing that?


I think I am of the minority in the Miniature Horse world, but I calculate the due date by taking the breeding dates, going back one month, and adding a day, and then like you, just watch early on for signs.

So as an example. I breed my mare June 3 thru 8. I would go with a due date of May 4 thru 9. Just a simple method.


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## ShaunaL (Feb 11, 2009)

She's still hanging in there and great news! She's no longer dripping milk and, it may just be wishful thinking, but I think her udder might be a little less firm today. I am so happy we put her on those meds (thanks to you guys!) Of course, I barely take my eyes off her and that will continue until we have a baby, be it tonight or in 6 weeks



I will keep everyone updated on any changes. She's back to eating pretty well again too so she was definitely gearing up to do something this last week. I am watching her on my computer right now at work.

Beth, this is Whitney, my Sierra Dawn Uno de Mayo daughter. The mare we talked about is Tidbit, my Mickey Mouse daughter - she is due April 25th but always foals around 300 days or less so she should go around the end of March. Both girls are solid black and pretty



LOL. I also have a BOB daughter in foal to Reserve World Champion Little Kings Buckeroo Cavalier due in early May. I am so excited about all 3 of these foals! Now, if we can just get them here safely.... At least we are prepared for most anything now, after all this fuss


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## mizbeth (Feb 11, 2009)

Me too Mona, that is exactly how I count the gestation days. I could not remember though if it was +/- a couple of days off of 11 months. We are correct for foaling within only a couple of days. I have just learned this though, in the last couple of years. I do count from the first breeding date though even if it was one month earlier. I cannot say I have had a mare "go over" as the result of this method.

Good luck Shauna, and PLEASE keep us updated! I'm getting sleepy now watching your mare





Oh yes, Tidbit. I LOVE this mare! I cannot wait to see the babies you have this year!


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## WhiteTailsMinis (Feb 11, 2009)

Excellent news Shauna! What a relief! Keep us posted.

Thanks to everyone for all the wonderful information regarding the gestation and calculations - and of course the fact that mares can and will breed again even if in foal. I'm bringing her up to the barn tonight to start watching her as I did the new calculations based on when she went in with him during her foal heat cycle on 8 April. Using April 10th (still within the 10-14 day foal cycle), it says March 18th for 342 days, March 5th for 330, and February 13th (YIKES) for 310 days. She went early last year so we better start watching her more closely.

I always learn so much in this forum from all you experts - truly appreciate your wisdom and eagerness to share.

Wishing Shauna and her mare a very healthy baby - will keep watching for updates.


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## mizbeth (Feb 11, 2009)

Hi

Not so sure about the "experts" information, but surely some of us have had some experience with foaling and don't mind sharing with you. Don't forget to keep checking her bag, a couple of times a day. This is the best indicator of when she will foal based on my experience. That and of course the consistancy, stickiness of her milk.

Good luck to you too, and keep us informed.

Beth

** what must have a ??? meaning here as it will not record?

** yep it did it again, maybe I should add minis after the initials?


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## ShaunaL (Feb 11, 2009)

Well I consider many of you guys to be experts and I don't know what I'd do without this forum to learn from all the time





Whitney has been very quiet all day, eating like normal, spent the whole day standing in the middle of her stall (very mellow for her, enough that I even came home at lunch to check on her in person, make sure she was ok). So that was good but for about the last 45 minutes she has been very restless - pacing and pacing, tail swishing and occasional side biting - acting quite a bit like the first night she was dripping milk actually. She had some drops at the end of her nipples but no dripping that I could tell. This mare is sure going to make me work for this baby! I'm thinking she's probably just uncomfy from being so huge (she is enormous and so low!) but I'll be watching her as closely as ever tonight just in case.


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## lyn_j (Feb 12, 2009)

Dont know if anyone mentioned this cause I didnt read all the way thru but, if the placenta starts to separate or there is an infection in the uterus, a mare will bag up and produce milk. Perhaps there was only a slight separation and it has resolved itself. Make sure you get the IGG level tested and you may want to have vet decide wether or not the foal will need antibiotics or mom just in case. In my 25 years plus experience with minis, bagging and leaking that early has meant infection. Most were early deliveries because of it or red bag.

Lyn


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## ShaunaL (Feb 12, 2009)

Thank you Lyn - she is on SMZs, Regumate and Banamine. My husband (small animal vet) will check over the foal immediately and my mini vet will get there as soon as he can to look the foal over. I hadn't thought much about placental seperation, more about infection, but you're right, we should definitely consider that. I'm surprised I didn't think of that, my own pregnancy (18 weeks now) has been troubled by a slight placental seperation and I just got off bedrest a couple weeks ago for it.

As of this monring she is back to dripping milk heavily and being very restless all night and this morning. We have frozen colostrum on hand and are as prepared as we can be for whatever she decides to do I guess. We are ready to do the IGg test and a plasma transfusion.


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## Becky (Feb 12, 2009)

Sounds like you've got all your bases covered. I know you are as anxious as we are for her to foal. Still keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well and she delivers a healthy, normal foal.


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## mizbeth (Feb 13, 2009)

Hi

I was just thinking about you and your mare. I hope no news is GOOD NEWS?

Beth


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## Miniv (Feb 13, 2009)

Yep....sounds like you got things covered.......



Now all you have to deal with is US.....Your AUDIENCE!





PLEASE let us all know what happens! (I bet all will work out fine.)


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## ShaunaL (Feb 13, 2009)

She's still hanging on



Every day brings us closer to a healthy baby, yay! She's still dripping milk like crazy



but that's not a big deal now that we have the frozen colostrum. I'll keep you guys updated and hopefully they'll be very boring reports for the next few weeks


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## Irish Hills Farm (Feb 13, 2009)

I've read bits and pieces of this thread and hope all will be well with your mare and foal.

BUT I have to ask, what IF your mare did catch on her first cycle and now is the time for her to foal?

What complications could take place by prolonging her gestation? I would think that the foal will continue to grow, and with that when she does go into labor, will she be able to deliver the foal without complication? I would be scared to death to lose my foal and my mare.

I don't mean to be a downer and really do hope everything turns out fine.


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## twilightranch (Feb 14, 2009)

Irish Hills Farm said:


> I've read bits and pieces of this thread and hope all will be well with your mare and foal. BUT I have to ask, what IF your mare did catch on her first cycle and now is the time for her to foal?
> 
> What complications could take place by prolonging her gestation? I would think that the foal will continue to grow, and with that when she does go into labor, will she be able to deliver the foal without complication? I would be scared to death to lose my foal and my mare.
> 
> I don't mean to be a downer and really do hope everything turns out fine.


Hi I have a friend who is going through this same thing and my friend was concerned about this same thing but her vet says this can't STOP mother nature! Hoping all works out for you and your mare!!


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## ShaunaL (Feb 14, 2009)

Irish Hills Farm said:


> I've read bits and pieces of this thread and hope all will be well with your mare and foal. BUT I have to ask, what IF your mare did catch on her first cycle and now is the time for her to foal?
> 
> What complications could take place by prolonging her gestation? I would think that the foal will continue to grow, and with that when she does go into labor, will she be able to deliver the foal without complication? I would be scared to death to lose my foal and my mare.
> 
> I don't mean to be a downer and really do hope everything turns out fine.


I appreciate your concern - I wondered the same thing at first but apparently the Regumate will not stop labor in full-term mares. There are many people who leave their mares on Regumate until they foal on their own. I haven't decided yet if I will stop it at a safe date or leave her on. I WISH I could have more hope that she is due earlier than we think but I really don't think she did. She IS still dripping milk heavily, and usually the Regumate/SMZs/Banamine causes all that to stop, from what I've researched. It stopped for about 20 hours then started again. So it's not working quite as well as in some mares but she's still pregnant so I'm happy



So hopefully we are doing the right thing for her and the foal but... you never know. Praying for a safe delivery without complications! She's 280 days tomorrow, getting ever closer to when we can breathe easier....

Thank you for your concern! I am learning so much from all this and it's wonderful to have all these different aspects to consider and learn from.


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## mizbeth (Feb 14, 2009)

I had a mare I kept on rugmate up until is foaled. The Vet told me the same thing, it will not stop mother nature, and did not in her case. She also dripped all her milk/colostrum the night she foaled and we had to infuse her baby.

Beh


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## MountainMeadows (Feb 14, 2009)

Your "meds" protocol wll not stop your mare from going into labor - however it isn't a bad idea to take her temp daily and monitor it to see if there is a spike that stays prolonged -- if so, it MIGHT be an indication that the placental separation/infection, etc is still running rampant and possibly the foal has died - in that case it is even more important to be there when she foals since a dead baby won't "help" get into position -- almost every single really bad dystocia I have had was the result of a dead foal. I am so glad to see that she is still hanging on, I am pretty sure that without the meds she would have gone last week - you have bought some valuable time, and it might be what saves this baby's life.

Keep up the good work - my fingers are crossed and my prayers are with you and the foal for a safe, healthy birth.

Stacy

PS Foaling miniatures isn't for "woosies" is it!



Boy they sure put us thru the ringer!


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## ShaunaL (Feb 14, 2009)

MountainMeadows said:


> Your "meds" protocol wll not stop your mare from going into labor - however it isn't a bad idea to take her temp daily and monitor it to see if there is a spike that stays prolonged -- if so, it MIGHT be an indication that the placental separation/infection, etc is still running rampant and possibly the foal has died - in that case it is even more important to be there when she foals since a dead baby won't "help" get into position -- almost every single really bad dystocia I have had was the result of a dead foal. I am so glad to see that she is still hanging on, I am pretty sure that without the meds she would have gone last week - you have bought some valuable time, and it might be what saves this baby's life.
> Keep up the good work - my fingers are crossed and my prayers are with you and the foal for a safe, healthy birth.
> 
> Stacy
> ...


I'll start taking her temp this morning for monitoring. I spent some time last night trying to feel the baby move but couldn't feel anything so I am a bit concerned about baby since then. I did feel it moving a couple days ago so maybe it was just sleeping or I wasn't feeling in exactly the right place. I've been worried about positioning since she started all this early stuff, makes sense to me that a foal born early might not be in the right position to be born yet? Just theorizing on that though - anyone know the stats? I am also concerned that she is HUGELY enormous, makes my other mare due right after her look not even in foal comparatively - so I suppose there is still the possibility of twins. According to my research twins are often missed on early ultrasounds unless the vet specifically seeks out and finds the other uterine horn to see that it's empty. I know that wasn't done on the u/s we had here and I doubt it was on her earlier one's at the stallion's place either. Could also be a large foal, just a ton of fluid or maybe weak uterine and belly muscles. She and the stallion are both little - he's a Buck Echo son so more tiny back there I think.

I am also convinced she would have gone last week without the meds. At 280 days now we are getting pretty close to a viable foal I think. It'll be 7 days tomorrow that she's been dripping milk, large firm udder, mushy rear, etc. It's a little frustrating because except for watching every minute I don't know how we'd tell when she is actually gonna foal? LOL She's just gonna keep showing all the signs continuously I guess



Thank goodness for cameras and Equifone - she's up on almost every monitor at home AND at work - my poor staff is getting a crash course in mare watching.... So someone, usually me or my husband, is always watching her but it's still nervewracking





No, it's not for the faint of heart or those who love sleep, is it? LOL Hopefully my other two mares will be more cooperative.


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## mizbeth (Feb 14, 2009)

I have had very big (miniature) mares foal too, and they did not have huge babies, surprisingly enough. I do have a mare now that looked like she was going to foal at Christmas time as she is so big and still is. I was thinking twins too? She was bred in May. Last year she foaled at 302 days a healthy boy. She is typically a 318-320 days mare though, but in any case a bit earlier than 11 months, at the earliest her foal should be born the end of March if she foals early again. I cross my fingers each day she will have a healthy foal, she has had 10? foals for me and is the dam to Mattie and others. She is such a nice mare, so easy to settle/foal. I hope she holds out too long enough for viable foal, since she is so big so soon.

My other mare that gets really big as if she is carrying twins is also a mare that has produced many foals, I believe her count is 11-12 foals to date. Maybe some of them just stetch out? It does seem my younger mares and especially the show mares that have been conditioned as younger mares, hold their shape real well and bounce back too.

Still hoping all is well with your baby. Taking mares temp is good idea, it will tell you if the baby happens to be dead in there as she will get infection. Probably if she was sick and feverish though she would be off her feed and visably sick.

I believe I have yet, or at least not very often felt a baby move. I see them move sometimes from a distance and have actually seen them turn and enter the birth canal. Neat by the way, it is rolling movement, their sides just weave in and out and you see a rolling motion! I have tried all the advise here on the forum to get them to move with no luck. So hoping yours is still fine? Can your husband use a stethescope and listen for a heart beat?

* Someone mentioned "spell check" on the forum? Where is that?


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## valshingle (Feb 14, 2009)

Well Shauna, now you have more company. One of our maiden mares, Getty, started dripping milk today at day 286 (by excellent vet u/s). Yesterday I took her to the vet and she stitched in the Foalert because of the beads of milk (clear) present. Her bag is full, but the teats aren't distended yet and her croup/hip still looks firm. This mare had a bad uterine infection after being bred in 2007 - it took the winter to get her cleared up. Uterine biopsy looked good and the culture was clean last year when we bred her. We put in a Caslick right away and just removed it yesterday. She was put on Uniprim about 4 days ago and started on Regumate yesterday. So I'm saying prayers and keeping fingers crossed with you. If it wasn't for the udder, I would say we still have a ways to go. But that udder is worrisome.


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## WJS (Feb 16, 2009)

Hi, does anyone have any news about this mare?


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## ShaunaL (Feb 16, 2009)

valshingle, I hope Getty hangs on for you! It's horrible, all this anxiety and waiting, isn't it?

My mare is still holding on to her baby, we are at day 281 now! It's day 8 of dripping milk and meds. I want to do a happy dance with every day that goes by LOL She is still dripping milk for some reason, jello rear but hanging on to that baby. The meds seem to be working well in her case so far and I hope they do the same for your mare.


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## valshingle (Feb 17, 2009)

Well, we're at day 289. Getty has stopped dripping, but I'm pretty sure she's still oozing somewhat. There are dried beads of milk on her teats and her legs are a little gunky, but not wet. I think the Regumate has really helped stop the dripping. The vet discourages me from checking on milk color very often. I think she doesn't want her to 'lose' whatever plugs we have going. Her croup is still firm and since she has a nice long back, her belly isn't that huge. On u/s on day 285, the vet said the foal was not in foaling position yet.

I've got another mare, Dee Dee, at day 300. Last year, her first foal was stillborn due to placentitis at day 309. She's looking fine, but I spend my nights (and days!) flipping back and forth between the two cameras. The Foalerts are stitched in, but I'm still a nervous wreck.

A third mare, Angelique, is also at day 289, but she looks like a 'normal' day 289.

Shauna - I'm right there with you!!


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## MountainMeadows (Feb 17, 2009)

Val, If you aren't adding in the antibiotics (SMZ's) and Banamine, you are not getting the"full affect" of this protocol - I have done it both ways, and adding the extras really makes a big difference.

Just a helpful hint -

Stacy


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## wendyluvsminis (Feb 18, 2009)

Prayers and best wishes to all these little mares! Does anyone have a problem with their mares not wanting their udder checked. I don't know how about you folks, but I pretty much have to get on my hands and knees to check an udder, (I haven't won any limbo or limber(!) contests lately)-so I am in viewing postion--and the mare moves! Do you tie your mares when you check them? And all these wonderful pictures! It looks like the photographers were laying directly under the mares to get these great shots! My mare is due on March 15th and is starting to get a bag, but it's so hard to check. I am probably not checking her often enough. Previous owners said she foals 4-6 weeks after the beginning of her bag. She is so wide, she looks like a large airplane and turns like a plane too! Very sloooow pivots. I have 22 year old mare, who has lost the past two foals to the mold on fescue grass. We don't have a grass problem her, but I am sending her to the vet's to foal. She's due end of April, early May.

Safe foaling blessings to all!


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## valshingle (Feb 18, 2009)

Stacy - Getty is on Uniprim, but not on banamine. I asked the vet about banamine, but she didn't want to add it to the regimen. What would be the reason to add it? It's an NSAID right? Is it an anti-prostiglandin?

Wendy - I started out having to halter and tie the mares up to check sensitive bags. After several days, I just halter them and hang on to the the halter with my left hand and check the udder with the right hand. I start at the back and gently massage down until I get to the udder. Most don't mind the sides of the udder being checked - it's when you go for the teats that they seem to object to the most. I don't do those incredible udder photos - too tall and stiff for that.


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## MountainMeadows (Feb 18, 2009)

Val,

It is an anti-inflamatory and seems to help "settle things down" - you will general see a marked difference in the bag if you use Banamine - IMO it is worth it in order to keep the baby inside for an extra couple of weeks.

Keep us posted.

Stacy


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## PaintedMeadows (Feb 19, 2009)

How is your girl doing today? I hope holding her own although I can't wait to see this baby! lol. I'll be watching.


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## Crystalbank (Feb 19, 2009)

Just found this post and glued to every word.

What's the lastest on your mare today?


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## PaintedMeadows (Feb 20, 2009)

Thinking about your girl and hoping all is well!! What day is she on today?


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## WhiteTailsMinis (Feb 20, 2009)

Yes Shauna - me too - been few days since your last update - all is well I hope - no news is good news? We've all got our fingers crossed!


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## ShaunaL (Feb 20, 2009)

Whitney is still hanging on! Day 285 now from last breeding. She's been doing a lot of up and down, rolling and side biting the last couple of days, she's so dramatic. She is still dripping milk even more heavily than before and is so full, poor thing. I'm a bit confused why she's still has such a full bag and dripping, it seems the Banamine stops that in almost all cases. But Im really happy with everything else - yay for meds!!



Hopefully she'll hang in there a few more weeks, although she's acting so uncomfortable the last couple days I don't know.....

My other mare Tidbit (330 date April 25) is starting a bit of a bag as of yesterday's checks. She usually foals around 300 -310 days or so (last year a stillborn colt at 281-290 days but a clear culture so it's thought the baby died a day or two before for some reason) so she looks to be on track to go around 300 days again, maybe the beginning of April.

I'll try to make sure I post updates every couple days. I'm going to try to get a new udder pic of Whitney today for my records so I'll post it.


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## PaintedMeadows (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank you for the update and I am glad she is still holding on! Have you thought of some baby names? This baby will need a name to signify all this waiting and worrying. tee hee. Best of luck! I look forward to seeing new pictures. I would love to see her face too! tee hee.


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## lil hoofbeats (Feb 24, 2009)

Just wondering how the mare is doing now?


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