# Dummy foal, asphyxia



## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 13, 2008)

Sorry I have kept everyone updated. I REALLY appreciate all the emails and PMs I've gotten with well wishes for Goldie's little filly. I'll try to sum up what has gone on, but honestly I'm so confused about everything that I will probably misrepresent something.

Goldie foals a little filly on 2/12/08 at 1:30am. The birth looked normal (at least to my novice eyes) and the foal came out with a lot of energy and a strong desire to nurse. Mom was a bit tired and slow to get up, but I attributed that to her age (17yrs). The foal was nursing, pooping, peeing, running, kicking and just generally using the foaling stall as her personal racetrack within a few hours. The vet came out at 2:00pm for the IG level test and general exam of mom and baby. They both got a clean bill of health and the foal seemed to be thriving.

At 4:00pm we got the news that her IG number was 400 (want somewhere much closer to 800 they said) so we planned a plasma transfusion for 11:00 this morning. By 6:00pm last night, she was sleeping so soundly that we had a very hard time waking her. But once up, she nursed, puttered around and seemed basically OK, although not quite as bright-eyed as earlier in the day.

By 9:00pm, we thought she was dead. Could not wake her up! We were rubbing her, kind of patting/slapping her a bit, picked her up and she was totally limp - nothing. Bobby started doing mouth to nose and she sort of shook and then woke up and started breating. We tried to get her to nurse and there was NO MILK!! None! We even tried the pump we have and got nothing. So, off to the hospital.

Got to the hospital by 10pm, foal was very listless. They did blood gas check, cbc, and pretty much everything looked pretty close to normal except for a couple of counts (can't remember what they were specifically called) hinted at dehydration and the fact that she wasn't getting enough milk. They milked mom and she had milk - plenty of it! I don't know what was the problem at home, but I don't care at this point.

They got the baby to nurse and she emptied both sides, then she pretty much fell asleep and was back to being listless. They did a plasma transfusion and IV fluids and kept her overnight.

Today they are saying she's nursing, but not as vigorously as they'd like, her glucose and other factors seem basically normal. They are using words like "dummy foal" and possible "asphyxia" when born.

They want to keep her through tomorrow and see how she's doing on Friday, but all they are really doing for her is the IV and monitoring her test results every 3 hours. And I don't mean "all" like I don't think it's necessary, it's just that they don't really know for sure what is wrong.

Any suggestions? Any questions I should ask? I'm going to go visit her on the way home from work in a couple of hours.

Thanks so much and please keep the little girl in your thoughts.


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## muffntuf (Feb 13, 2008)

Here is an article on dummy foals. Please do not let them talk you into putting the foal down, due to their misunderstanding. Often times dummy foals live very long and prouctive lives.

Dummy foal article link:

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=879

asphyxia just means lack of oxygen.


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## Buckskin gal (Feb 13, 2008)

Have seen dummy calves respond really well to B complex shots. She doesn't sound like she is a dummy foal though which happens when they don't get enough oxygen when being born. The B complex would be worth trying. though. JMHO Mary


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## lvponies (Feb 13, 2008)

My thoughts and prayers are being sent to the little filly. Please update us when you can.




{{{HUGS}}}


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## nightflight (Feb 13, 2008)

Few articles from basic to more advanced...

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=879

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/large_animal...s/neonatal.html

http://www.corralonline.com/articles/article060608194315.htm

http://www.surgi-carecenter.com/topics/Dummy%20Foal.pdf

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/AAEP/2003/bernard/IVIS.pdf

I can't speak for your vet's but the general horse vets around here are not as agressive as they need to be when it comes to treating foals. If you feel that more should be being done for your foal, call around for more options. Even a phone consultation with a reproductive vet or a school hospital might be worth looking into - just make sure you follow up too, so you know what was recommended, and what was actually done.


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## Tammie (Feb 13, 2008)

I'll be sending prayers your way for both Goldie's filly and for you! I know how long you have waited for this little girl.


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## BlueStar (Feb 13, 2008)

Coming from having a dummy foal experience....it doesn't sound to me like that is what is going on with her. Our dummy foal had an older dam as well but what happened was the birth was so quick and mom got up too fast...in a nutshell the cord broke to quickly and the foal lost that extra good stuff. It happens a lot in red bag deliveries from what I understand. Sounds like she has more of a fainting type sleepy issue. Seems like when she is up and alert, she is nursing well, but may not be nursing often enough due to the sleepiness???? If your interested in details of what experience we had with a dummy foal, feel free to PM me and I would be glad to share.


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 13, 2008)

Thank you everyone. I've read the articles and found them VERY helpful. To my untrained eye, she does act like the foals described in the articles. She was very normal and fiesty at birth but has become lathargic overtime. I just talked to the vet and there is no change. She is being treated with an IV, antibiotics and nutritional supplements. They tell me, as well as what the articles said, that she may very well recover and end up being normal if she can get through these first few days.

Thanks again. I'm going to stop by and see her on my way home from work.

Also, forgot to mention and don't know if it's important, but her eyes have remained very bloodshot ever since birth. They haven't cleared up like other foals' eyes have.


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## valshingle (Feb 13, 2008)

Have the vets kept you informed about the foal's glucose level? It needs to be at least 100. Our premature colt is doing well at the vet's, but he isn't able to nurse enough to keep his glucose level where it needs to be all the time. So the vets check his level every two hours and administer glucose if his level drops too far. Sounds like your baby may have gotten a very low glucose that first night and maybe got hypoxic (not enough oxygen to the brain). Low glucose (blood sugar) causes sleepiness and eventally coma. Hopefully, with time your baby will stabilize and be ok. My prayers are with you.


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## nightflight (Feb 13, 2008)

Neonatal Isoerythrolysis has probably already been ruled out, but are her gums and urine normal colors?

http://jaundicedjaw.blogspot.com/2006/06/n...ythrolysis.html

http://www.twhbea.com/neoIso.htm

(note, have not read the two above. Just pulled them up and scanned a few lines, so I'm not sure how good they are)

If PCV and RBC are on the bill they've already checked...

___-One More Blurb_____

Neotyphodium coenophialum (Toxic Fescue)

3. Gravid Mares: 3.3 Foal Vigor and Viability

Monroe et al., (1988) observed large-framed, dysmature and emaciated looking (poor muscle mass) foals with overgrown hooves in E+ mares whose foals survived the birthing process and whose average gestation length was 27 days past the expected foaling date (Figure 1). These foals appeared weak and many times exhibited a "dummy-like" behavior. Later, with proper care, the foals appeared normal (Monroe et al., 1988; Earle et al., 1990). Septicemia (bacterial infection at or near birth) is a frequent problem and is likely a result of the low level of passive immunity. Putnam et al. (1991) reported that of 11 mares grazing E+ fescue, only three foals were alive at birth, and only one of the three survived the first month of life. In this study, dysmaturity or neonatal death of foals was not observed in 11 mares grazing E- pastures.

Taylor et al. (1985) and Kosanke et al. (1989) observed lack of lung maturation in stillborn foals born to E+ mares. Amniotic fluid from E+ mares lacked pulmonary phospholipids and phosphatidylethanolamine was present in only 12% of E+ mares (Clare et al., 1994). These data suggest that lack of lung maturation may be a contributing factor to the high rate of foal death observed in E+ mares. Boosinger et al. (1994) examined several organs and tissues from foals of E+ and E- mares. Histologic studies of thyroid glands from foals exposed to E+ continuously or after gestation day 300 revealed numerous distended colloid filled thyroid follicles lined by flattened cuboidal epithelial cells. Mean plasma T3 concentrations were reduced in these foals. Foals from mares exposed to E+ continuously or from day 300 to foaling demonstrated a response to thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) by showing improved mental alertness, desire to stand, and good suckle reflex

Brendemuehl (1995) collected colostrum from normal mares and tested it for IgG concentration. Foals from mares exposed to E+ fescue continuously or from gestation day 300 were administered 1L of the pooled, collected colostrum collections by nasogastric tube within one hour of birth. Compared to control foals not from E+ or E- fescue mares, these foals had decreased serum IgG concentrations. These data combined with other data suggest that foals from E+ mares receive less IgGs from the mare's milk and their absorption rate is lower even if the milk IgG levels are at or near normal levels. These factors, combined with the lower level of colostrum production in E+ mares explain why many foals from E+ mares quickly become septic. The lower colosstrum and nutrient intake from milk, especially IgG, probably accounts for many foal deaths from E+ mares which have live foals at birth. Brendemuehl et al. (1994) observed lower serum T3, ACTH, cortisol, and total progestogen levels in foals from E+ mares compared to foals from E- mares.

Figure 1. Effect of endophyte-infected fescue (E+) versus endophyte-free (E-) fescue on gestation length, foal mortality, agalactia, incidence of placental retention, and rebreeding response in mares (adapted from Monroe et al., 1988). Stars indicate difference between treatments (P < 0.05).


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## Irish Hills Farm (Feb 13, 2008)

Parmela,

I'm so sorry you are going through this. All of you, including Goldie and her filly are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Miniv (Feb 13, 2008)

Is she becoming listless and sleeping right after she nurses? This may mean she's an "RH Factor" foal. Did your vet check for that? If so, and that's been ruled out, she may be what is commonly called a "sleeper". Newborns will outgrow it in a matter of days, normally. I hope that's what it is!


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## ClickMini (Feb 13, 2008)

I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I lost my filly that had this, although she had a very difficult birth after a dystocia. 36 hours old was the critical time for us. If your filly starts having seizures, she probably has some swelling in her brain due to lack of oxygen. My vet was very aggressive with treatment. I can't remember everything they did, but I will tell you that our bills mounted up to the tune of about $1200/day. I will PM you with the name of my vet clinic if you want your vet to get ahold of them to see how they would treat this. My filly was very severely impaired, although at 24 hours old she looked totally normal. At 36 hours she crashed.

Sending big hugs and wishes for a quick recovery for Goldie's baby.


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## Marty (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't know anything about this Parm, I'm so sorry I am of no help.

Hang in there lady.


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## BlueStar (Feb 13, 2008)

Ours had seizures as well. We treated aggressivley as well and he got better and better until he was completely normal again for a couple weeks and then all of a sudden he began having gran maul (sp) seizures and had to be put down. If she does start looking better please still continue to be cautiously optimistic with her. If it is in fact a dummy foal situation, it can effect them at any time.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and you little ones, take care.


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## RockRiverTiff (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't have any advice for you--just wanted to say how sorry I am you are going through this. I know many forum members have safely seen their dummy foals through the critical hours, and I will be praying the same for yours.


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## rabbitsfizz (Feb 13, 2008)

I hope your filly will be OK- I know how heart stopping this sort of thing can be.

That said this does not seem like a "dummy" to me- I had a dummy foal and the key factor was that he did not nurse- oxygen deprivation at birth.

If your Vet has not already done so have them perform the RH (Isoerythrolysis) test, even if it is only to rule it out.

If it does turn out to be pseudo dummy, then I would say if the foal is nursing you will be OK- the first 24 hours were critical with my colt.

He survived, BTW, hope your girl does too.


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## wendi leigh (Feb 13, 2008)

How scary, and how awful for you and Goldie after such a long wait. I hope your little filly comes around quickly. Lots of prayers and hugs going out to her.


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## Tami (Feb 13, 2008)

A friend of mine went through something like this in the mid 80's. Healthy foal that sounded just like yours, then got sluggish and they couldn't wake him up. His was a selenium deficiency. Once he had the shot he woke up and was fine. He went on to be a Reserve World Grand.


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## Riverdance (Feb 13, 2008)

Parmala.

I am so sorry to hear you are having trouble. I know how much you have been looking forward to this foal. Hopefully she will be alright. IV's and atibiotics should help. The filly could have crashed because she just was not getting enought to eat. They can not go too long without food.

I had a colt that had an problem getting anything down. For the first 12 days he was fine, then one day he could not swallow his milk. All of his milk would come back up through his nose. After not being able to get anything past an obstruction in his throat (birth defect), he crashed during the night. Was very unstable the next AM and I rushed him to the vet. By the time I got there (only 30 minutes) he had totaly crashed. Same symtoms as your filly. With IV's he rallied just fine. Unfortunatly, the obsturction would not let him swallow and I had to put him down.

I guess what I am saying is, your filly sounds like she was not geting enought to eat and just crashed. Her low count would indicate that too. Hopefully with the vets help she will grow nice and strong.

Good luck and my thougths are with you.


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## Basketmiss (Feb 13, 2008)

So sorry to hear this. but it sounds like it still may work out...

I sure hope so..

Sending prayers and (((HUGS))) your way...


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## MBhorses (Feb 13, 2008)

my heart breaks for you and your filly. We will pray for her and your mare.

keep us posted.

HUGS


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## Mona (Feb 13, 2008)

Oh no, so sorry you and your precious little one are going through this. Sending hopes and prayers that she will be OK!


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## CrescentMinis (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm sorry you are going through this too, Parmela.

I'll be praying you get some good news — that she turns the corner to recovery quickly.


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## sedeh (Feb 13, 2008)

{{{{{HUGS}}}}} and prayers for your little Goldie.


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## muffntuf (Feb 13, 2008)

StarRidgeAcres said:


> Thank you everyone. I've read the articles and found them VERY helpful. To my untrained eye, she does act like the foals described in the articles. She was very normal and fiesty at birth but has become lathargic overtime. I just talked to the vet and there is no change. She is being treated with an IV, antibiotics and nutritional supplements. They tell me, as well as what the articles said, that she may very well recover and end up being normal if she can get through these first few days.
> 
> Thanks again. I'm going to stop by and see her on my way home from work.
> 
> Also, forgot to mention and don't know if it's important, but her eyes have remained very bloodshot ever since birth. They haven't cleared up like other foals' eyes have.


*Please make sure they have her on oxygen as well!*

* *


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## LisaB Ozark (Feb 13, 2008)

Please keep us updated. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your new little filly.

Lisa


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## _minihorses4ever_ (Feb 13, 2008)

Prayers for Goldie and her precious little girl! I know she will hang in there. Please update us as soon as you can!


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## MountainMeadows (Feb 13, 2008)

Checking her RH factor is a good idea - altho at this point if she and her dam where not compatable it would be very noticeable - the plasma transfusion should have helped her a lot.

I suspect she is going the the "fainting foal" syndrome -- VERY scary, and exactly as you described, but most foals seem to outgrow it in a week - 2 at the most. Seems to stem from some sort of oxygen deprivation, or perhaps a "spontaneous birth" - I had a older mare that had a foal that did that.

I would probably stick to the IV's, keep her warm, under observation and only let her out to play for short periods of time until she seems to be back to normal.

I am hoping that all continues to go well, please make sure that your vets stay on top of her blood work - septicimea can take a foal down in a matter of hours.

Keep us posted,

Stacy


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## Brandi* (Feb 13, 2008)

Sending lots of prayers your way for a quick and full recovery


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 13, 2008)

Thank you everyone.



I really appreciate the words of comfort and advice. I'm so emotionally exhausted. The vet keeps saying there is no definitave diagnosis. Her glucose is within acceptable ranges, her blood gas tests are normal, her kidneys are funtioning ok, her liver has one test that keeps coming back very slightly irregular, but it's not glaring. The vet is maintaining she seems like a dummy foal, with her definition being a foal that (can) come out appearing normal on the surface but then starts to fail - not nursing aggressively, not following mom around, sleeping more and more, etc. She says she's a less severe case than some, but a dummy foal nonetheless. But I'm getting absolutely no guarantee that she is going to make it.

I went by to see her after work and she looked just ok. She was sleeping when I went in and she was hard to wake up. Once she was awake, she stood up and and nursed a minute or two. I loved on her some and she liked having her neck scratched where the bandage is for the cath. I'm being told she'll be there until at least Friday and we'll go from there.

Thanks again to everyone. You all are the BEST!





Here are some pics I took a couple of hours before we rushed her to the hospital.






(hubby calls her the bearded lady! OH! )






Thanks for your thoughts, prayers and support.


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## Miniv (Feb 13, 2008)

She is absolutely PRECIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I do hope she's a "sleeper/fainter" foal and all this will clear up as she matures over these next few days......


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## Dona (Feb 13, 2008)

She's beautiful...absolutely precious!





I, also, do not believe she is a "dummy" foal. If she came into the world the way you said....robust,lively & nursing....I don't see how she could have been oxygen deprived. The dummy foal we had, was actually not breathing at all when he was born. Had to give him mouth-to-nose to bring him around. Even then, he was very listless, no sucking reflexes, and acted like he was blind. In his case, the cord was wrapped around his poll during birth, which pulled the placenta loose before he was born. This deprived him of oxygen. Vet treated him very aggressively, as his brain was swelling from oxygen deprivation. 3 days on IV meds...and he was back to normal!





I think your little girl is just suffering from an immature nervous system & is a "sleeper". As others have explained, if this is the case...she will outgrow it.





Will send prayers for your previous baby.


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## ClickMini (Feb 13, 2008)

I disagree with those who say that it doesn't seem like a dummy foal. When my filly was born, she was up and nursing and just fine at 24 hours old. It was 36 hours when things went south fast.

I am really glad that you have her in the hospital. She is pretty early at what, 302 days? It is very likely that she is "dysmature." I think your vet is on the right track with the supportive care at the moment.

Good luck Parmela, she is lovely and I wish you all the best.


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## wildoak (Feb 13, 2008)

She's a darling filly. I guess there are differences in the onset of dummy foals, my take on it - and the only marginal dummy I've ever had - is exactly what Dona posted. She was a red bag baby and proceded to grow and thrive.....just a little slow to this day in her mental responses. Hope your filly outgrows this quickly and gets on with her life!

Jan


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## Brandi* (Feb 14, 2008)

She is so special



I really hope she can pull through. She is a cutie pie


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## Robin1 (Feb 14, 2008)

She is just gorgeous!!! I am also one that doesn't believe she is a "dummy" foal. From what I have seen they start out with problems. I think she is a fainter and will come out of this in a few days. I certainly hope so anyway.

Robin


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## Jill (Feb 14, 2008)

Parmela, I'm praying that precious filly will be okay! Hoping that the night was good for her and you'll have good news this morning!


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## eagles ring farm (Feb 14, 2008)

prayers for your mare and filly and you


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## REO (Feb 14, 2008)

She's a doll Parmela!





My prayers go out to your little girl.

Please do keep giving updates.


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## MBhorses (Feb 14, 2008)

aw

she is so cute.

we hope she gets well soon.

keep us posted.


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## Basketmiss (Feb 14, 2008)

Bless her little heart



She is ADORABLE!

Keep us posted on how shes doing. I'm sending (((HUGS)))


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## Crabby-Chicken (Feb 14, 2008)

Oh she is a doll! She is just demanding her extra attention since you tried so hard to get her! The Diva complex! Hope she does well. She sounds like the foal from the red bag we had. And ours is fine at six years. The only thing different about her, is she goes to a far far away place in her mind when she gets really stressed out. Just a little bit. She has pretty much grown out of it.


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Feb 14, 2008)

Oh my, she's way too cute!



Been thinking about her and you but just had the chance to check in this morning after class.. Still sending my thoughts and prayers your way!


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## Firefall (Feb 14, 2008)

What a sweet little filly, sending good thoughts her way!


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## bevann (Feb 14, 2008)

She is adorable.Sounds like a sleeper who will outgrow that.I've had several who were just limp when you picked them up.Then they would wake up and run around in the stall,When they were asleep they were really out.Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Magic (Feb 14, 2008)

Oh, she is such a beautiful filly!!



Adding my prayers and good thoughts for her full recovery, hang in there Parmela!


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## txshell (Feb 14, 2008)

She is a real cutie. You will be in our prayers, hoping all comes out well.



This is why I believe I will leave the breeding to others. I just don't have the strength for it, as it is my little caspian mare is due ??? and I am not sure who's the daddy. (Long story) I am starting to get the knotted belly. :Cold-Scared


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## SWA (Feb 14, 2008)

She sure is precious! Sending hugs and prayers that she'll be OK!


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## RockRiverTiff (Feb 14, 2008)

Oh Parmela, she is gorgeous! Well worth the wait! I am glad to hear she is responsive, and that she's well-attended (but you know she's going to come home a total diva now that she's used to having an entourage). I'll be keeping her in my prayers!


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 14, 2008)

Went by after work to see the little munchkin and she's doing much better!



She's going right for the milkbar as soon as she wakes up and she's nursing until mom's dry. She also got her fluids while I was there and when it was over, she promptly spun around and kicked the vet in the shins!



I know I should like that kind of behaviour, but coming from her I really consider it a great sign that she feels better.

Keep your fingers crossed and thanks again to everyone!!!

Hopefully she'll be coming home tomorrow afternoon.


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## Reijel's Mom (Feb 14, 2008)

SO glad to hear the positive update!!


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## qtrrae (Feb 14, 2008)

How neat to come on here and hear that she is doing so well! What a precious little filly - bet the vet didn't even mind getting kicked in the shins - shows she is much better and a spunky little girl.

Hope you will be able to bring her home tomorrow!!


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## eagles ring farm (Feb 14, 2008)

so glad to come home and see she is doing better

way to go baby girl


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## MInx (Feb 14, 2008)

*No experience here but had to jumo in here (imagine that



) and send my love and best wishes..I think you should name her Scarlett as in Gone with the Wind Scarlett simce she's been so strong and toughed it out and seems to be saying " I'll never be hungery again" LOL*

Beautiful color and gorgeous head as well..I love her spunk and big heart! Good luck.

Maxine


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## Songcatcher (Feb 14, 2008)

MInx, I just wanted to say I love your signature!


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## _minihorses4ever_ (Feb 14, 2008)

Wow, what great news! She sounds like she is on the road to recovery. What a pretty little girl she is too!


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## lvponies (Feb 14, 2008)

That is WONDERFUL news!! I am so happy for you!!!


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## Debd (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm so happy she is doing better. Best wishes for her continued health.


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## Riverdance (Feb 14, 2008)

So glad to hear she is doing better. Bet she comes home tomorrow so that you can spoil her.


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## Charlotte (Feb 14, 2008)

WONDERFUL NEWS! I've been trying to drop in here to get updates and pulling for your little girl while dealing with our sickies. This is just great!

I haven't read all, but did anyone mention cold? Foals born in cold or even just cool weather sometimes become too cool and lose the desire to nurse and become very lethargic and of course not nursing or not nursing enough it just spirals down from there.

Thank goodness that baby is 'on the go'!

Charlotte


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## Gena (Feb 14, 2008)

So glad to hear your precious little filly is doing so much better!!!






Our thoughts and prayers are with you...


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## CrescentMinis (Feb 14, 2008)

This is GREAT news!











I will keep watching for the next update and sure hope she comes home in the next day or so!


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## Basketmiss (Feb 14, 2008)

That is so great to hear!!

I cant wait to see if she comes home tomorrow..

Keep us posted!!


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## Scoopiedoo (Feb 14, 2008)

YAYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!



That's GREAT news! Hope she is well enough to come home tomorrow. Then we get to have more pictures of the precious girl!

Jodi


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## Brandi* (Feb 14, 2008)

Wonderful news



I hope she gets to come home tomorrow!


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## Robin1 (Feb 14, 2008)

Robin


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## wendi leigh (Feb 15, 2008)

YEAH!! I had been waiting for an update and so glad to hear it is great update!! Hope she keeps her spunk up and continues to improve.


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## Jill (Feb 15, 2008)

Yay! I'm glad to hear she is doing so well


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## MBhorses (Feb 15, 2008)

great news.we will keep praying for her.

keep us posted. love to see alot of pictures when she is home.is she sorrel?


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## Crabby-Chicken (Feb 15, 2008)

Oh wonderful news... SO glad you might have your long awaited sweetie home to play with and love!


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## SWA (Feb 15, 2008)

So relieved for you to read of her wonderful update! Continued prayers, hoping she'll be home for you soon as possible!


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## ClickMini (Feb 15, 2008)

What terrific news that your little baby is on the recovery track! I bet your vet is very pleased. I love Minx's name suggestion!


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## Loess Hills (Feb 15, 2008)

So glad to hear your tiny little one is doing well. Gotta love that spunk!

Thank you for posting all the information, and do keep us updated on her health and recovery.


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## WeeOkie (Feb 15, 2008)

So great to hear the good news, Parmela. I so hope you get to bring that precious, and healthy,

sweetheart home today!

Rita


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## Magic (Feb 15, 2008)

Oh, such a relief to hear that she is doing better! I can't wait to see more pics of the little cutie! Keeping her and you in my thoughts!


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## Connie P (Feb 15, 2008)

Parmela,

We have had several fainting foals throughout the years. Although it scares the daylights out of you (because they truly "appear" dead) - ALL of our foals outgrew it within a couple weeks and grew up to be happy healthy horses. Best of luck to you and your filly.


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## barnbum (Feb 15, 2008)




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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 15, 2008)

She's home!!! She gained 6lbs while there!



I'm sitting in my family room watching her on camera now and she using the stall as her personal racetrack!! She's nursing consistently and we have antibiotics to give her plus some probios and some banamine. It's SO relieving to see her looking so spunky like she did when she first came out!

Thanks for all the advice and words of support!



It really made things a LOT easier!


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## Brandi* (Feb 15, 2008)

Oh I am so relieved for you



Please post more pics when you can


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## Equuisize (Feb 15, 2008)

I feel like I've held my breath thru her saga.....

Glad she is back home with you .... gotta love

her racing around...such a good sign.


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## Becky (Feb 15, 2008)

That's great news, Parmela! I hope she continues to be vigorous and grow stronger by the day.


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## Scoopiedoo (Feb 15, 2008)

That's WONDERFUL news, Parmela! I can't wait to see more of your precious, tiny baby. She looks so petite and pretty in her pictures.





Jodi


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## Basketmiss (Feb 15, 2008)

Glad to hear she is home and doing well....

Lets see some more pictures!


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## REO (Feb 16, 2008)

WHOOO HOOOO!!!!!!!!

I'm SO happy to know she's feeling better!





She's a doll! More photos please!


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## Jill (Feb 16, 2008)

Parmela --

I'm SO HAPPY that baby girl is doing so well











Jill


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## midnight star stables (Feb 16, 2008)

How scary! I am so sorry for you.

She is such a pretty girl! Congrats





I'm so glad that she is looking better. I keep thinking about her


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## Cedar Ridge Farm (Feb 16, 2008)

Parmela,

I have been reading through all the posts and I've gone from crying tears of sadness to tears of joy!! I am sorry you and the filly have had to endure all of this, but I am glad to know everything seems to be okay.

Please continue to post updates and show pics of your sleeping beauty!





Peggy


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## MBhorses (Feb 16, 2008)

so happy she is home.

keep us posted. love to see more photos.


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## ClickMini (Feb 16, 2008)

I am so happy for your positive outcome! That is marvelous news. Maybe you should call her Goldie's litle Miracle!


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## MountainViewMiniatures (Feb 16, 2008)

Wonderful wonderful news! So glad she is back home with you!


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks again. Last night was so much fun! I watched her on camera until at 2am and she had made the stall into her personal Nascar track! She was zooming around, kicking, bucking and just generally giving her mom grief!

I got back up around 6am to check on her and she's pretty much back to having no energy and sleeping a lot and very deeply. I talked to the vet this morning. At this point she doesn't have a loose stool (which is one of the things they thought she could be on the way to) and she will get up and nurse on her own. But other than nursing she just sleeps. I'm giving her banamine, naxcil (sp?) and ADR paste. No temp, she is pooping and peeing but just nothing else. So, we watch...and we watch some more.

Please keep her in her thoughts.

Thanks a million times over...


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## Becky (Feb 16, 2008)

Sorry to hear that she's still not out of the woods.

Parmela, are you sure she's warm enough? Blankets, heater?? She could be a bit premature. As Charlotte mentioned earlier, if some newborns are the least bit too cool and their body temp is low, they become very lethargic. I would also recommend that you wake her at least hourly to nurse. Nursing will help to warm her up and get her blood sugar up to give her energy.

Good luck and keep us posted. We are pulling for you and the little one!


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## Mona (Feb 16, 2008)

StarRidgeAcres said:


> Thanks again. Last night was so much fun! I watched her on camera until at 2am and she had made the stall into her personal Nascar track! She was zooming around, kicking, bucking and just generally giving her mom grief!
> 
> I got back up around 6am to check on her and she's pretty much back to having no energy and sleeping a lot and very deeply. I talked to the vet this morning. At this point she doesn't have a loose stool (which is one of the things they thought she could be on the way to) and she will get up and nurse on her own. But other than nursing she just sleeps. I'm giving her banamine, naxcil (sp?) and ADR paste. No temp, she is pooping and peeing but just nothing else. So, we watch...and we watch some more.
> 
> ...






WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL news!!


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## rabbitsfizz (Feb 16, 2008)

Pretty sure then that this was not a Dummy foal......

Anyway, rhetorical, really glad she is doing OK- hope she continues to do so.


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 16, 2008)

Becky said:


> Sorry to hear that she's still not out of the woods.
> Parmela, are you sure she's warm enough? Blankets, heater?? She could be a bit premature. As Charlotte mentioned earlier, if some newborns are the least bit too cool and their body temp is low, they become very lethargic. I would also recommend that you wake her at least hourly to nurse. Nursing will help to warm her up and get her blood sugar up to give her energy.
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted. We are pulling for you and the little one!


Becky, I think you're right about the temp thing. She is in an insulated stall with 2 heaters and a heat lamp. It's very comfortable for us and momma but she is still shivering some. Part of the problem is that we have the heaters on shelves and not at floor level where she is. I guess we're going to have to figure out how to have them safely at her level. I am waking her up hourly to nurse and many times she's gotten up herself before the hour is up. Her banamine this morning seemed to perk her up some...or at least the timing looks like it did.

Thanks for the suggestion Becky. I do think she's a bit premie - her jammies aren't as long/think as I'd expected they would be for this time of year and her mane/forelock is just a bit of fuzz.


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## lvponies (Feb 16, 2008)

Does she have a foal blanket on?? If she's still shivering with the heaters and heat lamp, it sounds like she could probably use a blanket if you haven't already put one on her.

Sending good thoughts!!!


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## Scoopiedoo (Feb 16, 2008)

Keeping you and your precious little one in my thoughts and prayers.

Jodi


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## Becky (Feb 16, 2008)

I agree with lvponies. Does she have a blanket on? If she's shivering, she's cold!

My first foal last year wasn't born until the end of March, but if it was below 60, I had to keep her blanketed. She wore a blanket at least at night until she was a month old!


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## RockRiverTiff (Feb 16, 2008)

I'm thrilled to hear your little princess is home! Have you given her a name yet, or is she still the bearded lady? OH!


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## Gena (Feb 16, 2008)

Glad to hear she is home and doing better! I wanted to share with you we have had a foal in March here in Wisconsin and used two heat lamps in the stall which seems to help more than the one. I pray she continues to improve, she sure is a little sweety!!


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## Keri (Feb 17, 2008)

Glad to hear she's home. Maybe she just wears herself out so much racing around the stall, that she has to sleep to get her energy back.






I hope she has a full recovery for you! Such a gorgeous little filly!!!!


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## Charlotte (Feb 17, 2008)

Hi Parmela. I hope the little girl is doing ok this morning.

Like Becky and I have found, some of these babies just need a little help in the warmth department for a while. Think of....she probably weighs what? 12 pounds? 15 pounds? a bit more? But WAY less than you and I do! And we have on clothes! That thin baby hair doesn't amount to much insulation and they have virtually NO body mass!.

If I suspect a baby is having issues with maintaining their temperature I put a thermometer down on the stall bedding for a few minutes to see what it actually is there. I hate to tell you this, but I have had foals with cold issues if the temp on the floor was below 70!

In the past we have set up a temp stall in the groom room and heated it to 75 degrees! The baby did great! Mom got a bit warm in her winter fur, but she can take it LOL Usually just a few days of that then they can go back in a heated stall with blankets.

I have had vets tell me 'oh, shivering is natural. Don't worry about it'. But I can tell you. It takes a lot of energy to shiver and those babies don't have a big store of that. They just need a couple of fleece blankies for a while besides heat etc.

I bet your little one comes along just fine. You are doing all the right things and staying on top of it.

Charlotte

p.s. We got an infrared heater (a shop heater) from on online catalog a few years ago. That radient heat is great. Like a Kalglo, only smaller and can be moved around.


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 18, 2008)

I've been without an internet connection since Saturday morning! :arg!

I think you guys were right about the temp. We changed things around, added another heat lamp and another heater and FINALLY got it up to 70 degrees in there! And she's been much better ever since. THat was Saturday afternoon. I'm not saying that was the only thing wrong because I don't believe that, but I do think she was having difficulty regulating her temp and was probably expending a lot of energy just trying to stay warm enough. Now she's out of her blankets and for at least the last 24 hours hasn't been lathargic at all. Just normal nursing, running, sleeping, etc. She's also been much easier to wake up!

Her weight is up to 29lbs. Does that even sound possible??? I'm wondering if we're having a scale problem. I do know she's gotten taller, longer and heavier since she was born, but pushing 30lbs???!!! I don't know about that! She is a little tank though!! She isn't missing many meals!





Thanks for everyones words of support. It meant the WORLD to me!

Her hospital bill (including the farm call the morning she was born) was $3,331.28. Less than half what Mira's was last year, but still WAY more than I'd hoped to have already spent on the just the first foal of the season! OH! Mira used to be our "most expensive" foal, I got her dam (already carrying Mira) for free, but the hospital bills were over $8k. But this little one is going to push it! If I ad up the stud fee, 18 months of mare care, all the vet bills to get her dam in foal to begin with, the 3 round trips from MO to LA and now this hospital bill....well, it's going to be close!! And I'm not made of money, but it's been worth it. These little beggers just steal your heart, don't they?


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## Riverdance (Feb 18, 2008)

Parmala,

I am glad to hear she is doing so much better with more heat.

But, I would caution on using too much Banamine or Naxcel. These little ones can get ulcers quickly. Does the vet have you on any Ulcer medication? Banamine is known to cause ulcers if used too often. Just a word of caution. I would hate to hear she is having trouble in that department.

Good luck with her, as I said before, she is a cutie!!


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## palsminihorses (Feb 18, 2008)

Parmela,

I'm so happy to hear that your little filly is doing so much better now! You'll have to keep up updated with pictures!

Pam C.


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## Sarah's Little Blessings (Feb 18, 2008)

YEA!! I have just been able to get online!!!! CONGRATS PARMELA!! I am so happy she is doing better!!!


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## faithfarm (Feb 18, 2008)

Pamela,

What is the purpose of the banamine and Naxel, did she have a fever or respiratory problem? I personally think your vet was a little overaggressive in treatment. I agree that your foal was probably chilled and needed a little more heat. Other than that, nature probably would have handled everything else. Is your barn enclosed? My barn gets down to about 50 degrees on the coldest nights but I've never had to blanket or add extra heat, with the exception of my last foal born at 284 days (we put a heat lamp over the stall because she had very little hair). My foals spend their nights in the barn for the first couple of weeks but I always try to get them out of the stall during the day if the weather allows, including the day after birth. Excercise and sunlight are the best things for these babies. I know you want to be very cautious, but sometimes we overtreat and do more harm than good. Anyway, please don't take this as a slam, consider your ordeal as education and education costs money. I'm glad your baby is doing great, she's been throught a lot.

Rick


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## Miniequine (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm so happy to read that she is doing better!

~Sandy


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## Firefall (Feb 19, 2008)

Wonderful news and by the way, congratulations on a beautiful filly!!


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## StarRidgeAcres (Feb 19, 2008)

faithfarm said:


> Pamela,What is the purpose of the banamine and Naxel, did she have a fever or respiratory problem? I personally think your vet was a little overaggressive in treatment. I agree that your foal was probably chilled and needed a little more heat. Other than that, nature probably would have handled everything else. Is your barn enclosed? My barn gets down to about 50 degrees on the coldest nights but I've never had to blanket or add extra heat, with the exception of my last foal born at 284 days (we put a heat lamp over the stall because she had very little hair). My foals spend their nights in the barn for the first couple of weeks but I always try to get them out of the stall during the day if the weather allows, including the day after birth. Excercise and sunlight are the best things for these babies. I know you want to be very cautious, but sometimes we overtreat and do more harm than good. Anyway, please don't take this as a slam, consider your ordeal as education and education costs money. I'm glad your baby is doing great, she's been throught a lot.
> 
> Rick


Hi Rick,

I'll try to answer your questions. She did not have a fever or any respiratory problems that I'm aware of. I believe the Naxcel (which is an antibiotic) was a preventative measure since her IGg number was just at 400. The banamine is because they felt she was having some pain in her gut (can't remember exactly why they thought that right now), then the ADR paste was to help prevent ulcers I think. My head is still swimming with all the numbers, medical terms, ect that I heard over the last week!





Our barn is enclosed in that if we close all the windows and the garage style doors on each end, then it's totally closed up. But the temps have been in the teens here for several days now and the wind is just howling. We have the foaling stall insulated overhead and on all four walls above the concrete, but the concrete part of the walls stays pretty darn cold to the touch. The stall door is oak. We also covered the window with insulation. We have one heat lamp hanging over them middle and one electric and one oil heater going. The room is now staying between 65 and 70 even at night so mom and baby are toasty warm finally.



rabbitsfizz said:


> Pretty sure then that this was not a Dummy foal......Anyway, rhetorical, really glad she is doing OK- hope she continues to do so.


Jane,

If she had been born at your place, what would you have done and what would you have thought the diagnosis to be?


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## muffntuf (Feb 19, 2008)

Very good to hear everyone is home, warm and eating, running and sleeping!


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## faithfarm (Feb 19, 2008)

Pamela,

It sounds like your foaling stall is pretty insulated from the cold, the magic number as far as minimum temps goes is supposed to be 50 degrees, from what I've read . So I don't worry about additional heating as long as I can keep the temps above 50. If it is closed up tight and too warm it can cause respiratory problems. That said, if I thought a foal might be chilled I would add heat and I do have a heat lamp over our lastest foal. It sounds like you did everything right, I just think the vet has been watching too many episodes of "House".

The heavy sleeping is normal and sometimes they are hard to wake up if they are in a deep sleep. I can't speak for Jane, but I would have monitored the foal to ensure it nurses (on hands and knees in the stall), pees and poops, and is not shivering. I think it would have recoverd on it's own without vet intervention.

Years ago, my wife thought she killed a newborn because it passed out while she was drying it, then she tried to shake it awake but that didn't work, it only woke up when she put her finger in it's mouth. I've been breeding minis for 15 years and am still learning; but in that time only 2 newborns have been taken to the vet and only for fluids since they were being bottle fed. So far we've never lost one that was born alive, so that tells you how tough they are. Get an oxygen tank to give supplement oxygen if you have a tough delivery and you think there may be oxygen deprevation and you'll never have a dummy foal. Anyway, good luck with your new girl.

Rick


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