# NSPR ideas thoughts



## runamuk (Jan 15, 2005)

your thoughts on this new registry.....do you think it will become "something" or will it be like the ASPR and not really be very big......I am just kinda wondering I actually think it is a great idea and very timely with the closing of the hardshipping......I think it has the potential to become quite popular but only time will tell........Is anyone planning on actually breeding (crosses that were tempting ) now that there is an actual registry ?...........

I am just pondering out loud...I know many have been somewhat chastised when mentioning that they would like to breed their mini's to say an arabian or other breed.......I know of plenty of amazing 4h and show ponies that are welsh shetland or arab shetland and am wondering if the registry might be trying to capture this little market share......

Your turn please ramble.......


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## kaykay (Jan 16, 2005)

i do think it will become popular. there are alot of people like myself that wanted to try crossing a shetland with a mini or other breed of pony but didnt because it couldnt be registered. My hope is it will take off and have more competition than the modern pleasure classes. we h ave shown our modern for 2 years and there just never is alot of competition which takes the fun out of showing.

We will be crossing our Patches with a friends beautiful Caspain stallion. We are very excited! Will let you know how it came out in 2006 LOL


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## runamuk (Jan 16, 2005)

I also am wondering with the popularity of driving and CDE combined with more acceptance of the VSE division ......might be nice to be able to produce a horses for that market as well and still maintain a breed affiliation......and Kay that breeding should be exciting....I just love Patches but you already knew that


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## willowoodstables (Jan 17, 2005)

I am wearing my flame suit so here goes....

I come from a background of ponies of all sizes. 90% of them are full-blooded hackneys, a couple shetlands.

I have more and more people realizing that mini's are not "rats on a rope". However I do hear many of them wishing they were a little bigger, because in their eye and mine, little horses do not look good pulling carts unless it is a little cart with a little person.

That said, smaller hackney ponies really don't fair well in the show ring versus the bigger. By little I mean 46 to 49". Most are tight 50 and the road ponies just upped their height to 52". I see a real market for the larger fancier mini or small hackney. This is why my smaller hackneys will also be double registered as Show ponies. That way I can take my hackneys AND mini's to the same shows. So do a number of people that are considering the mini as an addition to the show string. I have over the last 8 years wanted to breed a really really nice hackney to a nice mini mare. I now have the stud I want (my own breeding) and would breed him to a nice mare in a heartbeat. However, what to do with it as it will for sure be closer to 39-40 than 38". I see in the future that the mini too will change it's height to something like the shetland. The shetland made huge leaps as a show animal once the heights were divided to 48" and under. I'm NOT saying the mini should be 48 and under, but I think 40" is more realistic as a performance driving animal than something 30" and under. Just a personal preferance, I have had driving horses ALL my life, and the smaller minis do not look correct in the harness with a larger person in it. Trust me, stand on the sidelines at a fair, and listen to John Q Public's comments on the little ones.

That said, I'm all for bettering the breeds as a whole. And finding a niche for an animal that is either too big (oversize mini or mini crosses) or smaller hackneys that we can show in a competition is a great idea!

Kim


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Jan 17, 2005)

Willowood i agree with you in that it isnt "what" a mini can pull but how it looks doing so. And there is something not very pleasing about the turnout when it is a small mini and a large person. Now i am a large person and i dont drive for that very reason my motto is i wont ride a horse who has a smaller butt then mine why on earth would i drive one





I dont think minis will ever go up in height however i do think that with things like CDE becoming more popular and people getting very competitive not just training or prelim that it will become a bit more evident that for marathon and such a bigger horse might be needed to amply pull a bigger person since it isnt in an arena (although those marathon carts are pretty nice and make pulling easier with suspension and such )

That is one comment i hear all the time from those non mini people why do such fat people drive them around is it mean yes is it hurtful yes would it apply to me if i drove yes... but all of that doesnt change the fact. and then if you see a out of shape mini or one who is struggling a bit then it makes it look even more so again i am not talking show ring driving as much as i am out pleasure driving out around town or even CDE-

so all of that said i do think that it can become very big and personally think that was all part of the plan when the registry closed for those that seem to think the height is an issue here is another option without having to get into another breed will be very interesting to watch it grow


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## willowoodstables (Jan 17, 2005)

Lisa..

My hubby is not exactly a fly weight which is why all his minis were on the larger side. Not because they couldn't pull him so much as the visual was truly distasteul to me. I think a larger person (unless they weigh 500 pds) can surely look fine in a cart behind a larger mini (means the tires can be a little taller etc). My mom won't drive my smaller hackney for the very reason she thinks she'd look too big behind him. I have a smaller viceroy with smaller wheels for him so he looks proportinate to the cart, and I do the driving (no fly weight myself LOL but short as heck), so the picture of him and I is appealing to the eye (not only the judge's LOL).

I think the marathon driving will see the increase in VSE. but again on the larger side of "B" (as in 38-40). I think the more people move from riding horses to driving horses the market/types of horses will change too..

Kim


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## runamuk (Jan 17, 2005)

Thanks Kim some great insight.......I too have been paying more attention to various driving and I admit there are many people who would look a lot better in a cart behind a nice welsh pony........I am of average size but might be able to pull off a smaller mini (not 30 and under mind you save those for the kids) mostly because I am all legs so when I sit down I appear very short.......I also have had some experiments in breeding in the back of my head for forever and the new division could open the door...........I also think there are still some decent unregistered horses out there and this would allow an avenue for registering their offspring.........my own experience with the general performance market has proven time and again the halfbreds often out perform purebreds and serious competitors will pay good money for a horse that wins regardless of what is on paper.......


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Jan 17, 2005)

i totally agree that it is MY OWN Personal hang up about size and driving and some of that well most of it stems from comments heard on the side lines especially from maybe horse people but not mini people

Everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with so FOR ME it is an issue and wanting to do CDE i would look personally for a larger then mini horse to be able to take me and perhaps a navigator if i needed as well as to be able to hold an adult and raven over different footing and up and down slopes instead of just a arena so that is my preference only.


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## runamuk (Jan 17, 2005)

Something else that has occured to me recently is ...I have had a fair amount of inquiry for ponies for young children.....what I have found is there aren't many



especially in the 40-42 inch category when I worked on the pony farm it never occured to me that all the ponies we had in that size range were mostly in their late teens to 30 ....the only two we had that were young were both POA that didn't meet height minimums....and man were those a couple of amazing ponies...they also were black and white leopards who weren't worth a nickel to the POA breeders they were too small








I think a nicely built 42 inch pony could not only haul around your average adult in a cart but could also pack around a kid so it in some ways could serve many more purposes....and somewhere along the way ponies fell out of favor and now people who had ponies as kids are looking for them either for their children or their grandchildren.....I am finding that 38 is a little too small and 45 is just a little too big........go ponies.....


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## kaykay (Jan 18, 2005)

when i first got minis and our shetland i could not believe how hard it is to find a kids pony. It just shocks me as when i was growing up they were everywhere. I tell you in my area you could make a good living rasing kids ponies but it takes years to get going as they have to have some age to th em before they can be broke. We have thought this over many times


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## willowoodstables (Jan 18, 2005)

Ahhhh..

In the hackney world there are dozens of ponies that make great kids ponies. When I was a kid that's what I had, we showed them like little saddlebred, double bridle and all. I have "found" MANY ponies that fit the bill as safe, fun and not dead-head ponies. Of course, I could make a living at it, but I don't have the room, but I get calls all the time for people looking for them, and I just pass them on to the owners of the ponies.

The only problem I encountered was the initial "ewwww a hackney..they're nuts!". Sooooo I would just say, take him home and do what ever and call me if he doesn't work. Never had one come back yet. My old broodmare who is 27 this year is living as a school pony at a 3-day event barn. The lady was trying to find a walk-trot beginner pony, told her I had one, dropped of the mare without telling what she was and got a call later that day"IT"S A FREAKIN HACKNEY". Same deal, she is still there, leaps 3 foot jumps on the course and is loved to death. She was little too, only 48, but sound and sane!

I agree, the market is there, but how do we promote from within our OWN ranks (really, some out there need a kids pony or a nice driving pony to show) ?? Sometime the worst to promote something not necessarily new but different meets a lot of criticism from within our own ranks.

Just thoughts to ponder..

Kim


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 19, 2005)

Just take a look at a couple of links and see what we already have to offer!!! I don't have any show ponies at the moment (no rider)so I have no personal axe to grind here, but I've been involved with them all my life, mostly showing, they seem to be the one thing I've never bred!! It could be that a good start to a programme would be to import a few of the medium sized ponies- they would make a really good cross with American 'Shetlands' . British Show Ponies, after approx. 65 yrs intensive breeding are _almost_ a breed (all are fully registered) and, to my knowledge, have NO Hackney in them at all- so there's another possibility!! They come in three basic height ranges- up to 12.2hh up to 13.2hh and then up to 14.2hh but this last height range obviously overspills into small Hack at 15.00hh. Anyway, take a look, we have some very nice animals.

HTML Document

http://www.britishshowponysociety.co.uk/

http://www.equi-show.co.uk/Show%20Ponies.htm

http://www.deanhills-stud.co.uk/mares.php

This is a very quick selection of HUNDREDS of Studs.


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## Sharron (Jan 19, 2005)

All very good reasons for the larger crossbred pony. one subject not touched on however is the advantages to older adults, that don't want a huge 15 h and up horse to ride. Unfortunately all the "furor" of a couple years ago when the adult walk trot class was shown at Congress, because of "the poor ponies" having to carry all that weight etc.etc.etc. This will give those "senior citizens" (like me) that want to ride something 14 h to 14.2 h a chance to get out there and ride again. I am short in stature, and owned a 14.0 h half arab until her death. She fit me like a glove, and I to her...lets not over look those that would buy, for their own enjoyment a NSP that would fit the size range of ponies. To say nothing about hybrid vigor and staying power. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Sharron


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## crponies (Jan 19, 2005)

I was working at a camp a couple summers ago, and a boy brought along his pony for roping camp. If I remember right, it was a shetland/quarter horse cross. That was one cool pony! He looked great, was maybe a tad hot-blooded, and did great at the roping. I think it would be neat to see more ponies like him too.


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## wendy4mini (Jan 20, 2005)

I have a question concerning the new registry. I have a mare that both parents are registered AMHR but the mare is 40" so was never registered. I look at the customer work order to see the cost of the DNA kit. There's not one. How do I get a DNA kit. Also, do I just DNA her and one parent or both parents. Any information would be greatly appreciated. I emailed AMHR and they didn't seem to much about the new program.


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## Laura (Feb 10, 2005)

I hope it's a huge hit. We do have a few crosses planned





I'm picking up a new pinto pony mare this weekend too



I did trade for her, so it's not REALLY like adding another horse



My 52" hackney mare is REALLY tempting me too....hmmmm.


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## Erica (Feb 10, 2005)

I have one crossed plan too....Really had it planned to hardship into AMHR at a later date but that is shot.

I sold the stallion I was wanting to cross on my shetland mare and since he is leaving in March here next month I am going to go on with the cross and just reg. the offspring in the NSPR - since won't ever be able to do that cross again with him leaving I am going to try it.

Although I can't say if I will continue to bred her for NSPR as I am not sure just how big it will get, I think after this year I will be taking her out for breedings to some really nice shetland stallions.


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## MiniHGal (Feb 11, 2005)

I think it'll be an excellent idea...and I have been seriously thinking about breeding Ref to a larger mini stallion to get a CDE pony....now, this may not happen for a long while...but it would be a gorgeous cross, and registerable. The stallion is a half-brother to Fascination. I don't know, but I do think it would be the perfect size...and they(Ref and stallion) have builds that would complement each other.





I know I prefer the 34"-38" minis for CDEs...they look better and pull better on the deep courses. It is very hard to balance the look of a small mini and a larger person...tho it can be done! Also, I find a lot of people don't seem to be able to balance the cart properly to a little mini...so the mini struggles with both pulling and carrying the person...


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Feb 11, 2005)

MiniHGal said:


> !  Also, I find a lot of people don't seem to be able to balance the cart properly to a little mini...so the mini struggles with both pulling and carrying the person...
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I very much agree with that.. hey what is the min height for a horse to qualify for VSE can some of these crosses be elegible for that?


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## Sungold (Feb 13, 2005)

With the new registry I'm thinking about hitting 2 birds with one stone - breeding my 44" Shetland mare to a larger POA stallion and having a double registered show pony and POA.



Perfect size and lots of possibilities.


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## MiniHGal (Feb 15, 2005)

Lisa, VSE's are up to 39" at the withers. There is no current height minimum for them...fortunate, as Pippin would almost certainly be under it!






So only if the cross is under 39" at the withers would they qualify to be a VSE--there is no registry for them though--that's the PC way to say mini without leaving out the ponies, unreg. stock, mules, and donkeys.


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## Laura (Mar 8, 2005)

runamuk said:


> your thoughts on this new registry.....do you think it will become "something" or will it be like the ASPR and not really be very big......I am just kinda wondering I actually think it is a great idea and very timely with the closing of the hardshipping......I think it has the potential to become quite popular but only time will tell........Is anyone planning on actually breeding (crosses that were tempting ) now that there is an actual registry ?...........
> I am just pondering out loud...I know many have been somewhat chastised when mentioning that they would like to breed their mini's to say an arabian or other breed.......I know of plenty of amazing 4h and show ponies that are welsh shetland or arab shetland and am wondering if the registry might be trying to capture this little market share......
> 
> Your turn please ramble.......
> ...


We are planning to attempt at least one hackney/mini cross if my senior hackney mare doesn't sell VERY soon. I love the pony conformationally, temperament wise and especially movement. I think she'd be an awesome cross with our homozygous mini stallion.


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## USMCshamusmom (Mar 8, 2005)

shetland/ arabian is my favorite cross, and big enough for me to ride too!

The highest priced ponies these days are those selling as childrens hunt- jump mounts, and shetland /thoroughbreds are selling for thousands.. why not have a registry for our wonderful shetland crosses? They are out there now serving in many capacaties and outselling pure shetlands in some markets, why not make them registrable and enhance salability that much more for those who want a "registered" animal? Makes good sense to me!


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