# Advice for a new driver



## LAminiatures (Jul 23, 2010)

Hello, I have been a large equine person for many years and got bit by the mini bug. I am shopping for a driving mare for myself to show in halter and performance as well. As far as driving horse goes what advice can you experts give to a rookie driver when shopping for the right horse. Please advise green broke or seasoned driving horse pros and cons. I am hoping to find a horse before fall.

Thanks so much


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jul 23, 2010)

Seasoned driving horse, no question. Just like with a big horse, green + green = black and blue! You want one who will tolerate your initial harnessing mistakes, do the right thing when you ask correctly and be a steady Eddie around all the glitz of your first driving show so that all you have to worry about is yourself. There's a lot to learn and you have to learn it yourself before you can teach it to a green horse.






Look for exactly what you would with any full-sized performance prospect. A good powerful hip, proper shoulder angles, a clean chest and throatlatch, solid feet, straight legs, good length of neck and a head that is pleasing to you. A good temperment is a must and look for plenty of reach and extension in the trot. I prefer a horse with a good powerful walk and nice round uphill canter as well but for a driving horse the trot is the main gait consideration. Ask the seller to harness and drive the horse while you watch and make sure the horse stands quietly for hitching, no fussing and hopping up and refusing to stand. That's a big one! They should stand there without moving until the driver asks them to move off. Ask if the horse has been driven without blinkers, without a check, and with breeching or outside the ring so you know the range of the horse's experience and training. For a show horse most of those things are very unusual but if she's had that training she should be pretty solid and trustworthy for whatever you decide to do with her.

Most of all, look for a horse you're comfortable with and like. Showing is so much more fun with a best friend who wins instead of a champion you can't stand!

Leia


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## Sue_C. (Jul 23, 2010)

Leia has pretty-much said it all.

Oh, and don't go for the "cute-factor" so much as the "can-do" factor here as well. Get a horse that will be "big" and strong enough to carry you around without looking like it is about to drop...I have see some horses that although they _can_ be harness trained, they shouldn't be asked to do much. It is nice for a green driver as well, to have a horse that has been driven "outside of the box", so to speak. Many show horses have never been driven outside of a ring...honest...I have seen ridden horses the same. Great in a ring, and dangerous idiots when on the trail. If the horse is said to be trail-safe...ask the owner to take you for a drive; that will show you a lot more about the horse than seeing it driven around in circles. Remember to take your helmet!!!

And the standing still "thing", I cannot reiterate enough...the MOST important thing a harness horse is trained to do, is Whoa...STAND.

Good luck...searching for your new best driving buddy is just so exciting.  Then there is harness to buy...carts to try...trails to hit...


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## targetsmom (Jul 23, 2010)

How exciting!!! I moved from big horses to minis and have never looked back. It is hard to add to Leia's great advice but I do have a couple of comments. With minis, size is VERY important, so give lots of thought to the size you are looking for - A or B size, or even the actual height you want. And I would also suggest that you check out the clubs in your area (mini clubs AND local driving clubs) and what shows and competitions are offered. And I can't resist adding that you consider a PINTO mini if there are any pinto shows in your area. The Pinto Association LOVES and rewards versatile horses of all sizes, and starting next year they will initiate a program where you can nominate your pinto to receive money for points won in their shows. In our area they offer up to 6 driving classes just for minis at each show with good sized classes.

As Leia said, you would look for the same things in a mini that you would want in a big horse. Also, I suggest finding someone in your local driving club (or the seller/trainer) who can give you lessons driving your new horse.


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## RhineStone (Jul 23, 2010)

I would add that you need to determine what _type_ of driving you want to do. There are about as many driving _disciplines_ as there riding ones.

Do you want a breed show horse? There are classes for very upright "Saddlebred-like" horses, or lower "Quarter-type" horses. Do you want to show in obstacle classes? Do you want to take the horse to carriage shows and/or Combined Driving Events? Will you be bored eventually with the roundy-round arena thing and eventually want to get out on the open trail or events?

There are some specimins that can "cross-over" well, while others are so specialized, it would take lots of training to do that.

And don't EVER think, "I won't ever do that!" Eventually, some sort of bug gets you and you will want the right horse to do the job, not find out that what you got isn't going to cut it.

It would be helpful for you to "test drive" a number of horses from different disciplines to determine what you really like and what you are capable of. As much as I was a "fan" of the 5-gaited Saddlebreds, they were just too much horse for me. I stuck with Country Pleasure Saddle Seat horses.

Consider these points carefully before making a purchase. It also might be helpful for you to connect with someone that might let you show their finished horse before you jump in with both feet. Even showing a "big" horse where you can have a "groom" to ride with you helps new drivers develop confidence to do it themselves later. Having that extra person there to make sure that your harness is fitted properly and your cart is put to properly can save a whole lot of headaches later.





Myrna


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## RhineStone (Jul 23, 2010)

As far as conformation, I will add that I like to see a horse built "uphill". There are WAY too many minis, especially "halter" horses that are actually downhill! I consider this a fault of the practice of "stretching" the horse in line up, but a horse that can't get it's butt under themselves will have a hard time pushing from the hocks to "push" that cart. Downhill horses also tend to "tire out" more easily, since they have to put more energy into "pulling" the cart. I also like to see a horse that can track up well in the walk and trot, even "overreach" a bit.

I also don't mind seeing a little angularity in the hind legs in a performance horse. Horses that are _too _straight seem not to be as brilliant as those that have a _bit_ of "cow-hockedness". Most of your good performance Arabians are not perfectly straight.

JMHO,

Myrna


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## LAminiatures (Jul 23, 2010)

Wow thanks so much for all this insight. I know I want a B size horse for driving. I found a woman that will give me lessons when I find my horse. I have been looking at horse in the New England area and have a couple to go look at during the next few days. I am very excited but don't want to get caught in the moment and make the wrong decision. I have a cart and harness and would love to get a Hyperbike over the winter and so some trail driving next summer. I am also planning on going to some R shows wether I drive or not as I do miss the show ring.

I'll say this horse shopping is the best kind of shopping.

Keep the advice coming I so appreciate all this knowledge


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## susanne (Jul 23, 2010)

Just a couple of things to add to the great advice others have offered...

Remember that "trained to drive" can mean many different things to various people.

Some work with the horse for less than a month, throw him in the show ring, and if he doesn't kill anyone consider him trained to drive.

Ask who trained the horse (professional, experienced amateur or someone who thinks it's "just" a mini)

How long was he in training and what did the training cover? Was he just started and then handed off, or did the trainer go into more depth.

Has he been shown? What kind of competition? As Myrna pointed out, there's a huge difference between the breed show ring and ADS (American Driving Soceity) styles.

As for conformation and height, I would add to look for long legs to complete that beautiful "big horse" proportion. There are still many minis out there who are essentially mid-size ponies on stumpy legs -- not an elegant driving horse! A decent length of neck and a refined throatlatch will make proper head carriage easier. Beware that some winning halter horses really aren't built to drive, esp. those with the table-top croups.

You want refinement, yet enough substance to do the job. I personally adore the big B size minis, but keep in mind that the closer you get to 38 inches, the more you have to worry about measuring in at shows. The same is true with those pushing the envelope of A size (34 inches) or any height group.

I love Myrna's suggestion of trying out a horse before buying -- perhaps a lease. Also, be sure to go to all the shows you possibly can. Watch the webcasts of AMHR Nationals and AMHA Worlds for the best of breed showing.

Hang around here and you'll get tons of great information, and be sure to keep us posted as to what you find. Good luck, and happy hunting!


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## targetsmom (Jul 23, 2010)

I see that you mention R shows and New England (where I live). As far as I know, R shows are very few and far between in New England. There was a great one in Maine in late June that was combined with an A show, but that is one reason I show mostly Pinto. New England Pinto has 4 shows a year, all in eastern CT. There are also a number of American Driving Society events in this area, including CDEs, ADTs and pleasure driving shows.


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## Marsha Cassada (Jul 24, 2010)

Temperament comes #1 on my list. A handsome face can get ugly if the temperament isn't right. I enjoy perusing "Getting in TTouch" by Linda Tellington Jones. Big or little, I think her observations on horses are pretty much right on. I can't help myself now; I am always looking at horses and trying to analyze them by their swirls, chins, and ears!


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## My2Minis (Jul 24, 2010)

Also, get a pre-purchase vet exam because soundness is important. I didn't do that and have a great little horse with soundness issues that are ongoing.


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## RebelsHope (Jul 24, 2010)

Do you know how to drive? If not get thee to a trainer. Takes some lessons driving. It doesn't matter the size of the horse you are driving.

I bought a mini trained to drive and assumed that since I knew how to ride I could drive. Well that just made me just knowledgeable enough to be dangerous. I had a runaway, and although nothing bad happened it just made me realize how much I didn't know. I did find a wonderful trainer and he has taught me so much with his haflingers, (ended up getting one of those too  ) So that would be my first piece of advice.

Next would be to get the horse you can drive now. Don't buy one that you are nervous to drive or is beyond your skill level. If you have a trainer, they will help you with too. It is so easy to feel totally comfortable with minis if you come from the big horse world, but they need respect too and take off with you too.

Think about what you want to do. Just pleasure drive down the road or compete in CDE or breed shows. really there is no wrong answer, but it will make a big difference as to the horse you get.

Good luck!


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## LAminiatures (Jul 25, 2010)

Wow you all gave me something to think about and I have a woman who is a great trainer and is going to give me some lessons. I have found a horse that I will be looking at Tuesday and I have talked to a couple other people about this horse and they said I would not be unhappy with this horse as she is perfect for a beginner driver. I am thinking I will start out with a beginner horse and see where it takes me. Maybe I will then decide if I want to persue a specific type of driving. My husband made me all kinds of trails around the farm last summer and I will be looking forward to using them. I am also going to keep my eye out for driving clinics and shows in my area.

Thanks again I will be updating on my finds and of course with questions.

Thank you all so very much keep the good info and advice coming.


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## RhineStone (Jul 25, 2010)

LAminiatures said:


> I am thinking I will start out with a beginner horse and see where it takes me. Maybe I will then decide if I want to persue a specific type of driving.


This is a good idea. You can always get another mini later! It's hard just to have one!



And the beginner horse is good to keep around for those Rent-A-Kids or your own that always seem to want to play with the horses.

Myrna


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## MiLo Minis (Jul 26, 2010)

I have written several articles for beginner drivers and they are posted on my website on the educational pages. See the link in my signature below if you want to take a look.


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## Jill (Jul 26, 2010)

Without reading the posts other than the original poster's question, my advice is to get a well trained / with miles driving horse but to be really careful. I've driven a lot of horses and have owned many driving horses. I've been driving since 1998, I think, and love it. However, over the years I have read here how this person or that person is "training" their mini to drive and it is an accident waiting to happen.

There are too many minis "trained" by people who really do not know what they are doing. Especially when it comes to mini horse people, there are too many read the book experts, or worse got the book report experts, with little hands on experience or real success. For that reason for myself, I would nearly always choose an unbroken horse to have trained by someone I trust (or take the time to do it myself) vs. chancing a horse someone skipped steps with and did basically a shoddy job with... It's far easier to do it right the first time, than to try and fix things once they begin to unravel. Just so many mini owners do not have a solid horse foundation and do not realize what can go wrong.

It is far easier to control a horse you are on, vs. one you are only driving. Even with a mini. They are so much stronger than a person and one of my worst nightmares is to have one run off with me while I'm driving.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe!


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## targetsmom (Jul 26, 2010)

Don't be afraid to wear your riding helmet while driving - even in the show ring. Just look at the dressage riders who are now wearing helmets in the dressage arena, even with top coat and tails. Don't wait for some well-known driver to get badly injured to start wearing one. Just my 2 cents.


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## RhineStone (Jul 26, 2010)

Jill said:


> However, over the years I have read here how this person or that person is "training" their mini to drive and it is an accident waiting to happen.
> 
> There are too many minis "trained" by people who really do not know what they are doing. Especially when it comes to mini horse people, there are too many read the book experts, or worse got the book report experts, with little hands on experience or real success. For that reason for myself, I would nearly always choose an unbroken horse to have trained by someone I trust (or take the time to do it myself) vs. chancing a horse someone skipped steps with and did basically a shoddy job with... It's far easier to do it right the first time, than to try and fix things once they begin to unravel. Just so many mini owners do not have a solid horse foundation and do not realize what can go wrong.
> 
> It is far easier to control a horse you are on, vs. one you are only driving. Even with a mini. They are so much stronger than a person and one of my worst nightmares is to have one run off with me while I'm driving.


Jill is very right.



We trained our own driving horses, but that was only after we had over ten years of big horse experience. Our first horse we trained was my teenage Arab/QH that I trusted with my life. It would have been a huge disaster if we started with the wrong horse. He was an older horse with lots of trust for us, and already knew how to ride well, respond to the bit, etc. I had already owned him for quite a few years and showed him at some big shows. He was a great driving horse. (Too bad I wasn't more into driving at the time. He would have been a great ADS horse!)

OK...that really wasn't our very first horse we trained. The "first" horse was a small appendix QH that was extremely lazy until you did something "different" with him...clipping, bathing, trailering, etc. Then it was a knockdown dragout battle, but we thought we were going to teach him to drive. Technically, my mom did with help from a couple of old timers who knew driving. (I was quite young at the time.) The problem was they didn't know the horse. One parade (what made us think he was going to drive in a parade when he couldn't handle riding in one?



) and that horse had a wreck even before the parade, smashed the shafts, and spent the time during the parade in the trailer while my mom and a friend who was going to ride with her pulled the buggy (yes, it was a Top Buggy) through the parade and made the front page of the paper! That horse never drove again. Huge disaster!





I think if there is one thing that you can't teach easily or get from a book, it's horse sense. Personally, I like to teach people how to train their own horse, but I have taught people recently that no matter what I do, I can't teach them easily how to "read" the horse. I'm not talking that froo-froo mind reading garbage, I'm talking about understanding what the horse is thinking by understanding his actions, eye and ear movements. Good trainers can do that. That is one reason that I am leary about the 30 training processes, because I need a few weeks of just being "around" the horse to take the time to understand it's thought processes. That is probably one reason that I haven't been seriously hurt by a horse in years. I need to be able to "trust" that horse to a certain degree before I will spend a whole lot of driving time with it.  I like to do that with lots of ground handling before we even introduce a cart and harness. A properly trained driving horse is not going to have holes in his training because the trainer has spent enough time with the horse for it to understand the training process before moving to the next step. By teaching others to teach their own horse, I don't have to deal with the horse in my barn for 60 days or more, just to "be around" it. The owner can do that. They just need help with the steps *IF* they get the _understanding_ part. They bring the horse in for the day, learn new steps and go home and practice them until next time.

I have a friend who had her horse trained by some local Amish, and now she is having to go back in the horse's training and fill in all the holes. The horse "drives", but it is edgy and unsteady, not soft and comfortable. (I'm not saying that ALL Amish will train a horse too fast, but that is what this one did.)

Good driving training is slow, thorough, logical, and usually more expensive than your average owner is willing to spend. That is why they want to do it themselves without the proper background training, and usually do it WAY too fast, especially with a horse that doesn't already have a good foundation in Showmanship/ground work.

Myrna


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## SaddleTrail (Jul 28, 2010)

Great information for all of us wannabe drivers.

I want to train my mini to drive. I trust him with my life, but do I trust him with my grand kids lives?

Don't really know the answer to that so the driving will be put off until I find the answer to that question.

I am going to start from the beginning ground work, we both need it, him for the refresher, me for the exercise heheh

Just reading all of your information for another has made me rethink about training him over the summer.


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## LAminiatures (Jul 28, 2010)

Well I went and looked at a driving horse yesterday. She was quiet, very respectful and adorable I have to add. I drove her for a mile or so she was responsive, lite in the bridle, stood well for tacking had a good whoa. I was getting the feeling this mare was unhappy but did what ever was asked. If that makes sense. She has been out to pasture with other minis for the summer maybe she was just liking vacation. I understand every person or animal has an off day........I know I'm not skipping into work myself some days. I am thinking I should go back and see her again.

Any suggestion?


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## Sandee (Jul 28, 2010)

She could have had an "off" day but it's more likely that something bothered her and that's not always easy to find. Some days my mare has some stomach trouble, or it's too hot and she's tired, and she lets me know that the saddle being cinched around her is NOT appreciated (but it's always tolerated). Other times it might be the bridle is off and someplace is pinchy. I've even gotten the saddle a bit too far forward and that made the crupper move up under her tail too much - that one she let me know in no uncertain terms! LOL

My point is my mare is a good driving horse and she tolerates whatever happens but there are days that things aren't just right. That could be this horse's trouble too. So I'd suggest another drive and maybe run you hands over her before tacking up to see if she touchy in some area.

If she acccepts the driving like my mare and you like the horse then I wouldn't worry too much about first impressions.


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## Sue_C. (Jul 28, 2010)

I find that most often with a horse that is out of condition. I mean, really, it isn`t much fun to leave your buddies, get harnesses up and go to work in the heat at the best of times...but if you haven`t been conditioned and fed for it, well...it certainly takes what fun there might of been in it...out.






If she was quiet, responsive etc...sounds to me like she might just be the one to learn with.

On another note, it could be that she just doesn't KNOW YOU...my black mare is like that. She will do anything she is asked to do for whomever I set in that cart...but she doesn't really look like she is having a good time. It is a JOB to her. When I get into the cart and "wake her up" with my voice, she feels MY hand on the reins; she knows it is me back there, and goes into another mode altogether. We are partners.


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