# "Share the Wealth"



## AppyLover2 (Oct 14, 2008)

Just curious how people feel about the share the wealth idea. I'm not talking about WHO is proposing it. I'm talking about the concept itself. I thought the "you're gonna take my money away from me" comment made by the plumber (in Florida?) was interesting...

What do you guys think about it? Are you willing to give your money to someone else?? If so, under what circumstances?


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm all for the idea, in general. How much support it gets from me does depend on the specifics involved, but I do love the 'share the wealth' concept.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 14, 2008)

Well I was getting ready to bring this up so I will add my thoughts here....................First off I feel there are special needs people in this world that do need help all their lives and there are some who need temporary help sometimes.



> I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."



When I heard Obama say that he assured me of what I have been feeling for months.................. With Obama in the White House we working people will soon be turning our paychecks over to him and his cronies so they can " spread the wealth around" as they see fit........ Our wealth ( as little as it is ) - mine & yours is going to lazy no good, too lazy to work even though they could, including irresponsible parasites just because a democrat thinks it is the right thing to do........Well I'm inclined to stop working too and just stand in line with them but as some said earlier"I have my pride and I am responsible".



> I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too


........ Some of these people behind us DO NOT want a chance for success as they are too busy picking the pockets of the people in front of them criminally or via the free government handouts. They are working the system & Obama plans to help them use & abuse it even further.
This comment and Obama's previous encounters and associations tell us more about Obama than he is willing to tell us himself.


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## Miniv (Oct 14, 2008)

Cathy,

The quote you included coming from Obama is scary. It's actually the theory behind socialist belief systems.

No one should be wealthier than anyone else........What you make, no matter how much or how small is pooled and everyone is doled out the same amount. This also includes personal material assets.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 14, 2008)

> How much support it gets from me does depend on the specifics involved


The problem with that is that we DON'T KNOW any of the specifics involved. We're only given a yes or no choice....not any say in how it would be implemented or what portion of our wealth would be "shared".

Edited because I realized that when I asked the question I didn't express my opinion.

I don't think someone who lives in a Million+$$ house should be trying to share MY wealth.....they should try sharing their own. I mean, after all, people like that have a helluva lot more to share than I (we) do. Seems to me like that could pretty easily become a "share the need" issue.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 14, 2008)

This is NOT a new idea..its CALLED WELFARE..not sure why the whole country should be on it


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## Bassett (Oct 14, 2008)

No. I can not feel this is right. When a person works long and hard hours, they should not have to give any of it away other than the NORMAL income tax. The last business I had was a liquor store. Well I tell you I worked from 8:00A.M. to 9:00P.M. 7 days a week for over two years before I started taking off "2 HOURS" every Tuesday afternoon. We had it for 5 years. It was not fun. All those hours. Had to. Couldn't afford to pay for help other than my son. We had no family life. Then my husband had several strokes and surgery and I just could not handle everything. Too stressful. Husband came first. So we got out of the business and moved on with our life. But you know when you are in business that you HAVE to pay DOUBLE social security tax. We've done that almost all of our lives. First business was an A & W root beer stand in Indiana. So I absolutely do not think that a business owner should have to give up any of the hard earned money that they worked so hard for. JMHO Let them go and find a job. Anything is better than nothing. Where he live there are too many welfare leeches. They just sit back and expect us to pay their way. They call my county a "welfare haven". I'm tired of it. Let the people who work hard to get ahead keep their money. JMHO


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 14, 2008)

Okay, let me change my answer, then.

I am for the concept of 'sharing the wealth'.


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## Jill (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm all for people voluntarily choosing to share.

I am not in favor of socialism or communism.


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## ozymandias (Oct 14, 2008)

Miniv said:


> Cathy,
> The quote you included coming from Obama is scary. It's actually the theory behind socialist belief systems.
> 
> No one should be wealthier than anyone else........What you make, no matter how much or how small is pooled and everyone is doled out the same amount. This also includes personal material assets.


Well said MiniV. I think anyone supporting this idea should spend a few years in the old U.S.S.R. (Union of Soviet *Socialist* Republics for those too young to remember) Wow, imagine...Russia becomes American and America becomes Russia


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## Basketmiss (Oct 14, 2008)

I will use this example.

When I was younger I was a waitress- I worked very hard and EARNED my tips-great tips, No I wouldnt have wanted to share those tips with anyone else since they didnt do the work.

Nowadays I hear in restaurants you do exactly that-you share your tips with the others, so what does this promote? You can work really hard and not get anything extra OR you can barely work or not at all and get the same as the person who worked hard!! So how many people do you think will work hard in this scenario?? This is just like welfare- if they can hold their hands out and still GET-Why would they actually put forth some effort.

I sure wish more people had some PRIDE, so they would work hard and get exactly what they are entitled too--*Whatever they have worked for!!*

I know that is a strange concept with many in this world we live in...


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 14, 2008)

Slight topic shift, but I found this article interesting: http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=28


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## Southern_Heart (Oct 14, 2008)

To "spread the wealth" Obama proposes to take some of what we pay in taxes and out right give it in the form of a refundable tax credit to people who may not work as hard or make the sacrifices we have made. That is redistribution of wealth, otherwise known as socialism.

Nope I am not for it!!!





Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

so·cial·ism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


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## RockRiverTiff (Oct 14, 2008)

We all know bad things happen to good people, and in those instances it's up to those of us who are able to to restore the balance. That said, our social services need some MAJOR reform. With the lower class growing and the middle and upper classes shrinking "spreading the wealth" is just not a feasible idea IMO. I say bring back the Works Progress Administration, where people that were down and out could work for the money they needed and still feel like contributing members of the community.


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## Marnie (Oct 14, 2008)

Are "middle class people" welfare cases? I only hear Obama talking about helping the middle class, to me those are the working, struggling people. That last debate check wasn't given to welfare cases, you had to have a tax return with at least some money have been made, I think it was $3000.


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## Pepipony (Oct 14, 2008)

I think we should have a flat tax. I also think that some social programs are a complete waste. If you can work, work, if you cant afford to work and live where you want, move. Its a hand up, not a hand out, there should be a limit on time you can collect. If you must accept state aid (unless SSD), then you need to do some community service. If you cant afford to raise kids, dont have them. There should be rebates for people who have do not have kids, but pay the school taxes etc for others.

I dont mind my tax dollars going to a divorced mom who is earnestly trying to get back on track. I do mind it going to some one who was raised on it and will live, then die on it.


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## Jill (Oct 14, 2008)

Pepi --

I was nodding in agreement when I read everything you just said





Jill


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## txminipinto (Oct 14, 2008)

How freaking scarey is this man?!? PLEASE VOTE!!!


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## Miniv (Oct 14, 2008)

Pepipony said:


> I think we should have a flat tax. I also think that some social programs are a complete waste. If you can work, work, if you cant afford to work and live where you want, move. Its a hand up, not a hand out, there should be a limit on time you can collect. If you must accept state aid (unless SSD), then you need to do some community service. If you cant afford to raise kids, dont have them. There should be rebates for people who have do not have kids, but pay the school taxes etc for others. I dont mind my tax dollars going to a divorced mom who is earnestly trying to get back on track. I do mind it going to some one who was raised on it and will live, then die on it.


I agree........


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## littlesteppers (Oct 14, 2008)

Pepipony said:


> I think we should have a flat tax. I also think that some social programs are a complete waste. If you can work, work, if you cant afford to work and live where you want, move. Its a hand up, not a hand out, there should be a limit on time you can collect. If you must accept state aid (unless SSD), then you need to do some community service. If you cant afford to raise kids, dont have them. There should be rebates for people who have do not have kids, but pay the school taxes etc for others. I dont mind my tax dollars going to a divorced mom who is earnestly trying to get back on track. I do mind it going to some one who was raised on it and will live, then die on it.


OMG..we agree...OMG

I tell you One thing..our neighbor owns a pizza place..ever so often people come in tell him they hungry..can they please have pizza..he says ..well got a few stalls to clean..sure..clean them and you can eat all you want..

Not ONE person evfer did that..they all just left!


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## Buckskin gal (Oct 14, 2008)

Marnie, Well we middle class people aren't "welfare cases" yet but if we keep having to give to those greedy rich people we just may end up in the poor house. Sewriously, I do not mind helping those who are unfortunate but I do not like one bit when my tax dollars have to go for bailing those rich bankers and loan shraks out. Something truly wrong there. Of all the money we are now paying out to rescue those greedy SOB's we could be giving a huge amount for health care for not just the rich ones but for the unfortunate ones. Mary



Marnie said:


> Are "middle class people" welfare cases? I only hear Obama talking about helping the middle class, to me those are the working, struggling people. That last debate check wasn't given to welfare cases, you had to have a tax return with at least some money have been made, I think it was $3000.


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## Miniv (Oct 14, 2008)

littlesteppers said:


> Pepipony said:
> 
> 
> > I think we should have a flat tax. I also think that some social programs are a complete waste. If you can work, work, if you cant afford to work and live where you want, move. Its a hand up, not a hand out, there should be a limit on time you can collect. If you must accept state aid (unless SSD), then you need to do some community service. If you cant afford to raise kids, dont have them. There should be rebates for people who have do not have kids, but pay the school taxes etc for others. I dont mind my tax dollars going to a divorced mom who is earnestly trying to get back on track. I do mind it going to some one who was raised on it and will live, then die on it.
> ...



What a GREAT example of our economy and lifestyle!

Here's another one........A friend of our's (also a farmer/rancher) was approached at the parking lot of a grocery store by a person holding a sign that said "Will work for Food." Our friend told the guy that he would pay him $10 an hour to come help out, AND give him a meal! The guy with the sign practically spat in our friend's face and said that he makes more money sitting at the parking lot!!!


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 14, 2008)

None of my business since I don't live in the US but this whole idea (as I understand it from what was written here) has been tried in other countries and the results are available for any who wish to inquire.

If we were trying to get a horse to behave a certain way and we just kept suggesting it but giving him his reward with out having him actually TRY he will never learn the behavior. Works for every animal, I don't see it as a stretch to compare that to this idea.

Not ONE person evfer did that..they all just left! 

Why does this not surprise me.


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## Pepipony (Oct 14, 2008)

My grandfather was CO ( I guess that is the correct term) of some 3C camps wayyy back when. He always had a problem with people who walked around with their hands out but never offered anything in return. Guess I learned that from him. I wish I didnt loose him so early in life, I could have learned alot more from that man.

For those who dont know, and I may be getting some facts wrong as i am beginning a major migraine. But 3C camps were started to give men who couldnt find jobs a hand up without a handout. They had to work, doing community projects.

FWIW, if anyone searches for this, please send me any links. I had a ton but that puter had a brain poot and I lost most everything. GF was Lt Raymond.


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## Tango (Oct 14, 2008)

We have all been "sharing the wealth" for many, many years. Yep, it is called Welfare. Here in California our tax dollars pay for medical services for illegal aliens, pay welfare for those that are too lazy to work or just think that collecting welfare is their job. Try and "force" them to earn what they get and they scream discrimination or pull the civil rights card. Granted, there are those that TRULY need help but that is a tiny percentage of the whole picture.

Our property insurance just trippled, and our flood insurance went from $25.00 a year to $636.00 a year!! Flood insurance, what a joke! We are lucky to get 5" of rain a year where we live, water levels are dropping all around us and people are having to lower their wells, yet we have to pay an increased amount for our insurance. Guess where it is going - to pay all the flood damage for Katrina. Again, we are "sharing the wealth."





Why is it that the price of crude oil has dropped to $80.00 a barrel and gasoline prices havn't dropped a dime. Someone in the oil business is definitely NOT sharing the wealth, just getting a whole lot richer.

And someone please correct me if I am wrong here, but I think I read that McCain thinks that anyone who makes under Five Million dollars a year is middle class?!



Okay, I think that man needs a reality check!

I think I am going to write in Donald Duck for President, oh wait, he doesn't wear pants...that would be politically incorrect.....! A body just can't win for losing!








Stepping off my soap box now.


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## Jill (Oct 15, 2008)

For those of you who think the wealthy should start being forced to share, I bet you have, or feel you have, horses nicer than some others. How about having to spread that kind of wealth so everyone (else) can have better herds than they did on their own? Like it now?


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## Buckskin gal (Oct 15, 2008)

I think if we take a hard long look at the mess this country is in we will find it is not the unfortunate people who have low paying jobs that has caused the problem and not even the class of people we have had to share with. WE ARE SHARING WITH RICH BUSINESSES THAT HAVE PROVED THEY WERE GREEDY AND PUT US ALL IN A TERRIBLE SITUATION. Those bankers and loan sharks have and will take millions from us taxpayers after living high on the hog......well I would have rather generously given a few dollars to the needy than be forced to pay a bailout on these greedy pigs! I don't like paying for unnecessary stuff anymore than the next person but where oh where has the thought come from that we should not take care of the unfortunate but be forced to give our hard earned dollars to bail out rch businesses. I did not like one bit to pay out over $6,000.00 on a death benefit sum that I was to have when my hubby died this spring but it was taken by the government from me before they would send the little that was left!! This is robbery......giving a hand to the unfortunate is good for the heart! I sure would have liked that money for paying funeral expenses etc. but no, the government says the rich need it more! Mary


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## SilverDollar (Oct 15, 2008)

I already DO share my wealth...some of it goes to my charities of choice, the other goes to the people the government chooses--most of which I do not agree with. Like Tango, I live in Calfornia, and I am sick to death of paying for felons to abuse our services by illegally crossing the border. I'm also sick of paying for women to have babies they absolutely cannot afford. I like the idea of people without children getting a rebate...count me in!! I've also paid for everyone else's kids to get an education.

Oh man, I gotta go. My blood pressure is rising...



Time for happy hour.


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## Minimor (Oct 15, 2008)

Mary, that is what I resent too, sharing with those who have MORE.

I don't have much use for those who believe welfare is a source of income...I don't mind seeing someone on welfare while they get their lives sorted out and decide on a direction, and then make the effort to go in that chosen direction and work to better their situation--but there seem to be plenty who figure that now that they have a welfare check coming every month they don't need to try and get any other job since they have a steady source of income--some actually come right out & refer to it as such! Those should be given a boot in the butt and told that if they want to eat they'd better get out there and do some sort of work even if it's community service in the form of cleaning city streets/parks!

But yes, we do share plenty of our hard earned dollars with the wealthy--and I resent that most of all.


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## garyo (Oct 15, 2008)

Buckskin gal said:


> I think if we take a hard long look at the mess this country is in we will find it is not the unfortunate people who have low paying jobs that has caused the problem and not even the class of people we have had to share with. WE ARE SHARING WITH RICH BUSINESSES THAT HAVE PROVED THEY WERE GREEDY AND PUT US ALL IN A TERRIBLE SITUATION. Those bankers and loan sharks have and will take millions from us taxpayers after living high on the hog......well I would have rather generously given a few dollars to the needy than be forced to pay a bailout on these greedy pigs! I don't like paying for unnecessary stuff anymore than the next person but where oh where has the thought come from that we should not take care of the unfortunate but be forced to give our hard earned dollars to bail out rch businesses. I did not like one bit to pay out over $6,000.00 on a death benefit sum that I was to have when my hubby died this spring but it was taken by the government from me before they would send the little that was left!! This is robbery......giving a hand to the unfortunate is good for the heart! I sure would have liked that money for paying funeral expenses etc. but no, the government says the rich need it more! Mary



Very well said. I still can't believe that so many of you have no empathy for the poor, but have no problem with our tax dollars going to help the bankers and wall street execs after years of their GREED putting us in this current economic mess.

Whats your choice, welfare of Corporate Welfare. I personally would rather see some of the CEO'S CHOKE on their golden parachutes and give the money to the truly needy.

I don't understand how many of you lump anyone needing assistance into the same "lazy, refuse to work" group? Open your eyes and you are sure to see many good hardworking people that needs help.

I, for one who will be signing a check on April 15, and not expecting a refund say "give my share of the bailout to those who truly are in neeed".

Gary


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## littlesteppers (Oct 15, 2008)

Americans are One off the most giving countrys in the world..NOBODY can say that americans have No compassion..

Coming from Germany (socialist country) I will tell you..Nobody will give to charity..Nobody will help anybody..I was amazed when I came over here..and the economy is like a tide..it lifts EVERYBODY up or everybody goes downwards..

The rich are not taking YOUR share..mostly they create wealth..look at Microsoft..when Bill Gates (still the richest man) created windows in a garage..what did it cost YOU? He created jobs, pays tons of taxes..he created wealth for many people that would have NO job..

Now the most imprtant point Garyo..How about these Browns and Cardinals...??


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 15, 2008)

I absolutely agree that there are some people who need help. I also agree that there are some who will never do more than stand in line with their hand out. What incentive is there for anyone to do something to help themselves if the government is going to give them a free ride??? I'm sorry I just don't think that makes America's future look bright.

I hate giving to the rich as much as anyone does. The spa debacle after the bailout money was received was about as dispicable an act as I've ever seen. Unfortunately it's those big companies who keep millions of us employed....how would we survive without them?

Speaking of "rich", Obama lives in a Million+$$ house. Do You??? I sure don't!! I can't help wonder if he has any idea what it's like to work hard and make sacrifices all your life to get where we are. Otherwise I honestly don't think he's be presenting himself as a modern day Robin Hood.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 15, 2008)

We can put this down on our level too..right now the only people that buy horses are pretty wealthy..this helps me..so I can buy maybe a horse..buy more hay..buy vitamins..tack..things I could not afford IF I had not sold a horse..in a sense we already spreading the wealth..


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## McBunz (Oct 15, 2008)

Bill Gates give tons of money to good causes... but I'll bet these big bankers have stashed enough for the next four generations of their families so they

would never have to work.. Playing a Monopoly game to see who can take the most money before the end of the game.. A big power trip.. Find out

where they dropped their campaign money and you will probably find lots of dirt..


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## garyo (Oct 15, 2008)

Both of those games were unbelievable. Good thing I'm not a betting man as I would have lost on both of those. I didn't think the Bucs would beat the Panthers either.

Don't you have one of our old QB's Chris Simms in Nashville now? I liked him, he's a tough kid

How about those RAYS, just killing the Red Sox.

Gary


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## littlesteppers (Oct 15, 2008)

Yes Simms is our number 3..I was bitng nails on these two games and did a little dance..





Now guess who is the only UNDEfeated team is??? Huh, huh??

LOL

I know nothing about baseball or any other sport..But I just LOVE football..might be the tight pants? JK>>>LOL


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## Bassett (Oct 15, 2008)

> don't understand how many of you lump anyone needing assistance into the same "lazy, refuse to work" group?


These are two entirely different groups. But many times you can't tell the difference. In my county if a person truly needs help they will get it. But I know a lot of people who have babies to get MORE help. An awful lot of deadbeat dads around. But a lot of the times nowdays the father is unknown. One good thing in Wisconsin, we do have a program to help them get schooling and a job. They can only be on assistance for very few years. I can't remember how many. maybe 2-4? Then we had a woman (about 40) divorced her husband, got an education, and when her welfare ran out she moved to Minnesota, just across the river and she is still living on welfare over there. The truth is she NEVER divorced her husband. She moved to a house in town and he was there every night. You look in the court system and find she never even filed for divorce. All an act so she could get more free money, because she was a single mom.



But like I said people truly in need can get help. We have a great social services system but it is severely abused by a few who know how to use the system.

I don't mean to sound bitter about it but I have paid my share to the poor needing help. So I know how some of you must feel knowing it can now happen to you. I feel for you, as it will no longer affect me. I am voting McCain/Palin because I know Obama will not be good for my children and grandchildren. I can't say my sister, because Marnie leans toward Obama.






Her and I don't agree on politics so we don't discuss them.






Love Ya, Marnie.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 15, 2008)

Another thing comes to mind..do you remember when Oprah "gave" all the pregnant woman a babyshower..for all the ladies with employed husbands,..in ft campbell..Oh they Loved her..until April following year..of cause she reported it as a tax right-off..now the IRS came after each of the ladies ..this was recorded as gifts and they had to pay more taxes on it than what they could afford to begin with..you never seen so many peed of MOMS!


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 15, 2008)

Someone on TV said something interesting a while ago. He said *Obama isn't going to save our country. McCain isn't going to save our country. It's up to us to be ready to face whatever comes.* As much as I hate to say it I think he's right. The politicians (both sides) just keep throwing money (wherever it comes from) down a bottomless pit.


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## Pepipony (Oct 15, 2008)

garyo said:


> I don't understand how many of you lump anyone needing assistance into the same "lazy, refuse to work" group? Open your eyes and you are sure to see many good hardworking people that needs help.
> 
> Gary


Gary, in all honesty, I havent seen people say that, here, yet. It seems that they are stating that they understand a handup, but not a handout. Maybe I missed a post.


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## garyo (Oct 15, 2008)

Pepipony said:


> garyo said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand how many of you lump anyone needing assistance into the same "lazy, refuse to work" group? Open your eyes and you are sure to see many good hardworking people that needs help.
> ...


Maybe not, it might just be me going off on a tangent. Definitely, agree, hand up and not hand out.

Gary


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## wildoak (Oct 15, 2008)

> Bill Gates give tons of money to good causes...


As do nearly all "big money" individuals and companies, if for no other reason than for the tax write off. Granted, some have opened their hearts and wallets more than others.

Jan


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 16, 2008)

I only caught part of the debates tonight, but I did hear Obama saying something I agree with which I know isn't shocking, but I think it's something that most people might agree with. Sen. McCain may have said something similar, too, but I didn't catch it tonight.

Basically, Obama knows that it's going to take the collective power of the American people to pull this country out of what we're mired in. He's calling for a spirit of sacrifice and national service that we seem to have forgotten.

The Great Depression was a horrible, painful time in our history, but it also gave rise to our Greatest Generation. If we're headed that way now, maybe our kids will be our Next Greatest Generation. We can hope, yes we can.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 16, 2008)

> Obama knows that it's going to take the collective power of the American people to pull this country out of what we're mired in. *He's calling for a spirit of sacrifice* and national service that we seem to have forgotten.


.......................... And we little people are the ones that are having to sacrifice because of the mess created by our leaders?




............. Where is their spirit of sacrifice? No they ( big business) get a handout while we little people are still digging out of the hole created by them!...............................................................................That comment right there is a stark indicator of what he is going to do! You are going to sacrifice, sacrifice & sacrifice - so get ready to do more with less........ Share your wealth folks now or save it for Obama as he is telling you now *that he is going to take it from you *if he is elected.. Take off your blinders!

*"Joe the plumber for president"*


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## Shari (Oct 16, 2008)

ozymandias said:


> Miniv said:
> 
> 
> > Cathy,
> ...


This is what is happening...slowly. Pretty scary. I know a couple of people, one from East Germany..that went over the Berlin Wall just before WWII... and one from the old U.S.S.R... both can't stand what people born in the USA are letting this country come too. They said they left the communist countries for a reason and really worry what direction this country is going. For you see.... that is how things started in Russia and Germany... slowly and without people caring until it was to late.

Niether party is going to change anything....They are puppets for the most part. Every Pres elect has said they would change this or that....and it never came to fruitation. Ex Pres Carter...said he can do more good for the Country NOT being Pres. Makes you wonder.

And I agree.... us little people are just along for the ride, at this point.

As for giving.... no.. don't want to share the wealth... why because my family works hard for what we have. I already give when I can to what I believe in... American born Elders that people ignore..that don't have enough food.. so I give food or money to the local food bank to make sure at least a couple of the Elders are fed. I can't afford to feed everyone. These people are not free loaders but genuine in need. I give to other causes that need help, when I can.

But what I hate is all the bloomin free loaders in this country.. the ones born here and the ones getting a free ride from Mexico. So no.. no sharing the wealth blindly for me.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 16, 2008)

Shari said:


> ozymandias said:
> 
> 
> > Miniv said:
> ...


Ain't that the truth..maybe thats why I am so peed..I saw it before..I am a socialist refuge..


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 16, 2008)

Cathy_H said:


> > Obama knows that it's going to take the collective power of the American people to pull this country out of what we're mired in. *He's calling for a spirit of sacrifice* and national service that we seem to have forgotten.
> 
> 
> .......................... And we little people are the ones that are having to sacrifice because of the mess created by our leaders?
> ...


I don't wear blinders, and I don't want a plumber running the country.

You know, when I hear him calling for a 'spirit of sacrifice and national service' I have trouble picturing your dystopian Marxist future. I know that is not what Obama wants, and I know that even if it were, we as a country would not let it happen. We have checks and balances and common sense.

What I DO think of when I hear 'sacrifice and national service' is back to the 1940's, during our WWII involvement. I think of the things we gave up to support our country in a time of need. That was a genuine national movement. It was not an easy time, it wasn't even a 'good' time, I'd think. But we had soldiers in the field, we had a force at home, women going to work to help our country. We bought bonds. We did without. We even had 'Soldiers of the Soil', families and KIDS who involved themselves in community gardening projects to be sure we had enough food to go around. We, as a nation, EXEMPLIFIED a spirit of sacrifice and national service that I would argue we have not seen since those times.

I know this war is not that war, and those times are not these times. I still think that we are missing that spirit, and I think it would do this country a service to get that spirit back.

Maybe that sort of commitment and things like the New Deal established in the wake of the Great Depression amount to socialism or Communism or Marxism or whatever Obama happens to 'be' this week. If that's the case, sign me up comrade.


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## Southern_Heart (Oct 16, 2008)

If Obama is so wanting to _Share the Wealth_ why doesn't he start with giving some of his own wealth to his half brother George Obama that lives in the slums of Kenya.

I always thought that charity began at home.


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## Bassett (Oct 16, 2008)

> If Obama is so wanting to _Share the Wealth_ why doesn't he start with giving some of his own wealth to his half brother George Obama that lives in the slums of Kenya.I always thought that charity began at home.


I don't think he meant HIS wealth. I think he meant other peoples.


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## Southern_Heart (Oct 16, 2008)

I know I know....Bassett

Well a good place to start would be his own kin. Show the world that he can also share some of what he has.

Oh wait.. he'll take it from us and then give it to him!! Stinker!


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## littlesteppers (Oct 16, 2008)

Southern_Heart said:


> If Obama is so wanting to _Share the Wealth_ why doesn't he start with giving some of his own wealth to his half brother George Obama that lives in the slums of Kenya.I always thought that charity began at home.


Lets be fair ..Biden gave 369 dollars a year..on average..

2007

Joseph R. and Jill T. Biden joint tax return

Total income: $319,853 ($71,000 income from royalties from his book; $66,546 - Jill Biden's teaching job; $20,500 - Joe Biden's teaching job; $161,708 - Joe Biden's Senate salary)

AMT: $2,721

Deductions: $26,516 in state/local/real estate taxes; $38,712 home mortgage interest; $995 "Gifts to Charity"

Interest: $99 from various sources

(According to his financial disclosure form filed with the Senate, he also received a $112,500 book advance from Random House and he donated $1,025 in honoraria from TV personalities David Letterman and Bill Maher to charity)


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## SilverDollar (Oct 17, 2008)

> Maybe that sort of commitment and things like the New Deal established in the wake of the Great Depression amount to socialism or Communism or Marxism or whatever Obama happens to 'be' this week. If that's the case, sign me up comrade.



I hope you are joking. Seriously, do you _understand _ Socialism, Communism, and Marxism? If not you need to go back and read history. It is NOT something I ever want to see in this country. If you think it can't happen here because there are "checks and balances" I think you are mistaken. People always think it's a panacea and that everyone will be "equal" and life will be "fair". Tell that to the Germans or the Jews. Be careful what you wish for.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 17, 2008)

SilverDollar said:


> > Maybe that sort of commitment and things like the New Deal established in the wake of the Great Depression amount to socialism or Communism or Marxism or whatever Obama happens to 'be' this week. If that's the case, sign me up comrade.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you are joking. Seriously, do you _understand _ Socialism, Communism, and Marxism? If not you need to go back and read history. It is NOT something I ever want to see in this country. If you think it can't happen here because there are "checks and balances" I think you are mistaken. People always think it's a panacea and that everyone will be "equal" and life will be "fair". Tell that to the Germans or the Jews. Be careful what you wish for.


YUP sociast refugee here..little ol' me


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## Irish Hills Farm (Oct 17, 2008)

I am absolutely against socialism!!!!!!! No freakin' thank you.

The only ones that seem interested in it are late teenagers and twenty something year olds. Those who expect to do nothing but play video games and party all day. Handout? Yes, please.

Maybe if people were rasied with morals and pride this country wouldn't be in the mess it's in.

Maybe if people were raised to handle responsibility this country wouldn't be int he mess it's in.

Maybe if people were raised that some lose, some win, instead of there are no losers, this country wouldn't be in the mess it's in.

Maybe if Joe wasn't worried all the time what Bob was doing, and taking care of himself (JOE) this country wouldn't be in the mess it's in.

I don't think I should HAVE to share anything I've worked my butt off for. You want something, you earn it! PERIOD

*"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson*

McCain/Palin '08


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## Jill (Oct 18, 2008)

Well said, Sheryl


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## Margo_C-T (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm giving you a standing ovation, Sheryl!!! Darn right--EXTREMELY well-said!








Margo


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## Bassett (Oct 18, 2008)

Sheryl, Very well said.









Right on.


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## Jill (Oct 18, 2008)

[SIZE=12pt]_"When he [barack Obama] says that he's not going to continue the Bush Tax Cuts -- Let me translate that into plain English. He's going to raise taxes by more than any President has ever raised taxes in the past. That is precisely the mistake that was made in 1929 and 1930 that took a recession, a difficult one, and made it into The Great Depression."_[/SIZE]

-- Rudy Giuliani, October 14, 2008


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## Jill (Oct 18, 2008)

> Shouldn't Sara Palin address issues on shows like " meet The Press". 'Face the Nation", and "This Week" before she starts the entertainment circuit?


Frankly, no, Mary Lou. She's made herself pretty available for questions. She's also been treated very poorly (and unfairly) by much of the mainstream media. Why shouldn't she do SNL? They've been doing her, that's for sure.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 18, 2008)

ML..I don't think Sarah could do anything you approve off..don't matter what she does..

She prob. gotto get ready to be Obamas Vice president anyways..


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## Bassett (Oct 18, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Shouldn't Sara Palin address issues on shows like " meet The Press". 'Face the Nation", and "This Week" before she starts the entertainment circuit? We Americans should demand more information from this person who has been kept away from the press. If she goes on Saturday Night Live before she sits down with a Sunday Morning Political Discussion she will prove she is all hype and no substance. When was the last election where the VP candidate skipped these shows? My guess is that she would be the first and probably the last.


I'm really sorry I missed the shows "Meet The Press", "Face the Nation", and "this Week" when Joe Biden was on.




I would have like to have seen them.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 18, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> > She's made herself pretty available for questions
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I totally agree, it's like a three ring circus and a magic act all in one. Lots of illusions trying to be passed-off as fact


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## littlesteppers (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah..would be much easier if we all stopped thinking and just votefor Obama..huh?


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## littlesteppers (Oct 18, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Christine.. Really.. it is not that I try to make anyone vote for Obama.. I just see so much that is going on and wonder why others do not see it??
> I find this election totally off the wall and a lot of it has to do with Palin/McCain.. Something is terribly wrong in the way they are going about things in this election..
> 
> I am done with all this again.. I just want it to be over as I am tired of the total mud-slinging, untruths and lying.. It is really sad..


ML..I believe this election is MUCH more than just an election..people fearing to loose EVERTHING this country stands for..and yes there is much cheating and lying..this is why people are so outraged..


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## Buckskin gal (Oct 18, 2008)

Perhaps the one side is trying to "make" people vote to their way of thinking and therefor accuse the same for others. I can hear your frustration ML. I do agree that there is something terribly wrong with the way McCain/Palin are going on with things and this election. There are very few straight answers from them and so many false claims that I find it almost unreal. For someone qwho started out saying he would run a clean campaign it sure has turned to mud. JMHO



Mary Lou - LB said:


> Christine.. Really.. it is not that I try to make anyone vote for Obama.. I just see so much that is going on and wonder why others do not see it??
> I find this election totally off the wall and a lot of it has to do with Palin/McCain.. Something is terribly wrong in the way they are going about things in this election..
> 
> I am done with all this again.. I just want it to be over as I am tired of the total mud-slinging, untruths and lying.. It is really sad..


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## littlesteppers (Oct 18, 2008)

Buckskin gal said:


> Perhaps the one side is trying to "make" people vote to their way of thinking and therefor accuse the same for others. I can hear your frustration ML. I do agree that there is something terribly wrong with the way McCain/Palin are going on with things and this election. There are very few straight answers from them and so many false claims that I find it almost unreal. For someone qwho started out saying he would run a clean campaign it sure has turned to mud. JMHO
> 
> You kidding right...


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## Minimor (Oct 18, 2008)

I have to say that from everything I have seen, read and heard (here and elsewhere), it wouldn't matter a plugged nickel what McCain or Palin said or did, those that don't like them now would never like them--and would never have a good thing to say about them. ML--you surely don't expect any of us to believe that you'd be in favor of McCain/Palin if only he had said....what you want to hear?? If Palin went on those news shows you believe she should be on, you would just use it as one more opportunity to make fun of her and put her down.

I realize that it is also true that those that don't like or trust Obama would not like or trust him no matter what he had to say. That's exactly why all the mudslinging is pointless. Absolutely pointless. And I just don't see the Democrats and Obama supporters as being lily white when it comes to mudslinging...they/you have been doing their/your fair share.

Once upon a time there was a spoof on the show Royal Canadian Air Farce. I don't even remember now what the skit was about, but there was one line they used that has stuck in my memory all this time.

I have to say that I think that one line is so applicable now:

GOD HELP AMERICA!!


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 18, 2008)

Well said minimor. A couple other sayings come to mind too. Something about casting the first stone....and another about living in glass houses.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 18, 2008)

> I just see so much that is going on and wonder why others do not see it??


And that is exactly how we feel why Obama supporters cannot see what HAS GONE ON in his past & why his past does NOT ring an alarming bell! It is not just one or two events - it is more than one & from more than one source - everyone that says something negative about him cannot be wrong - some of the things are true.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 18, 2008)

Regarding Obama's tax cuts to working families.

James Freeman from Wall Street Journal says Obama's tax plan is nothing but a clever pitch. (Obama's 95% Illusion).

Currently James said that "over fifty million filers now PAY NO taxes or get money back and Obama *is expanding that*"

So where is Obama going to get his money to do all that he promises?

Video

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html...ends/index.html

*Obama's Tax Cut is actually a spending increase says Non - Partisian Group*

Explained here

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/arti...px?RsrcID=37519


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## SilverDollar (Oct 18, 2008)

When Obama said "And I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." that really scared me. How can he NOT see that it's NOT good for everybody?? You may as well remove the word "incentive" from the dictionary because no one will have any once he starts "spreading the wealth". If that is not Socialism, I don't know what is. Life's not fair...deal with it.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 18, 2008)

SilverDollar said:


> When Obama said "And I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." that really scared me. How can he NOT see that it's NOT good for everybody?? You may as well remove the word "incentive" from the dictionary because no one will have any once he starts "spreading the wealth". If that is not Socialism, I don't know what is. Life's not fair...deal with it.


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## Buckskin gal (Oct 18, 2008)

Yep, just like all the wealth that has been shared [our tax dollars] with those wealthy bankers and loan companies that now need the hand outs to recover from their bad business practices



Seems like all the money is going to bail out those greedy pigs...oh well, that is so much better than helping the unfortuate person. Share the wealth with the greedy but let the poor low income people stay as they are. Something just doesn't seem right with the way it has been going and far too many just don't seem to get it.



SilverDollar said:


> When Obama said "And I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." that really scared me. How can he NOT see that it's NOT good for everybody?? You may as well remove the word "incentive" from the dictionary because no one will have any once he starts "spreading the wealth". If that is not Socialism, I don't know what is. Life's not fair...deal with it.


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## CyndiM (Oct 19, 2008)

I think if you all remember correctly there were some of us who were against the bail out. The same people who are against the Nobama principal of taking from the haves and giving to those who choose to not work or try to help themselves. Could it have been possible we knew just what would happen or at least suspected it would happen that way. I am still pi**ed off at my representatives who voted for this.

I also remember some of us said the crooks who got us in this mess should be prosecuted to the max and they should have to give back all of the money they got from this. Yes including politicians.

Look at what happened to the ENRON people (who deserved it) this mess is ten times worse, the public should be crying out for some heads to roll as they did then.

It also seems this is the very reason the Dems would NOT just vote it through which they could have, they didn't NEED any votes from the Republicans.

They did not want anyone to be able to say it was their fault we have an even bigger mess. They wanted to claim *bipartisanship *on this one!


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## Jill (Oct 19, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Obama said was that he would cut taxes for 95% of WORKING FAMILIES…not 95% of Americans.


Even though they are working, a large percentage (Fox says 40%, but a source I rely on for client discussions says about 25%) of families do not pay Federal income taxes as their incomes are too low. So to cut taxes on 95% of working families, many of whom don't actually pay taxes, while at the same time raising taxes on the top 5%, who already pay a huge percentage of the total Federal income tax burden, IS wealth redistribution and that IS socialism.

[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]



*Socialism:*
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
It's not like there's a gray area to this, folks.

Looking through some of my materials, I can tell you that in 2005, the top 25 percent of taxpayers paid 84 percent of the nation’s federal income taxes.

When you hear “top 25 percent,” you may be thinking that this is a very wealthy group, but that isn’t necessarily the case. If you had a household adjusted gross income (AGI) of $57,343 or more, that placed you in the top 25 percent. $57,000 / year is not a high income family in my neck of the woods. Far from it.

In contrast, those with a household AGI below that amount were responsible for only 16 percent of the overall federal income tax burden.

SO, I think it's clear that this socialistic idea could very, very easily reach on over to people we all would consider very much the middle class...


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## Jill (Oct 19, 2008)

It is off topic, yes. I was hoping you might have something to say about my on topic reply to your post.


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## bingo (Oct 19, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> OT - but smart man that Colin Powell - on Sunday's Meet The Press
> ABOUT MCCAIN - The retired four-star Army General gave a scathing critique of the McCain campaign and the Republican Party, saying he was "disappointed" by the approach the McCain campaign has taken on issues. He also expressed concern with the selection of Gov. Sarah Palin as McCain's vice president. "I don't believe she is ready to be president of the United States," he said.
> 
> ABOUT OBAMA - "Because of his ability to inspire, because of the inclusive nature of this campaign, because he is reaching out all across America, because of who he is and his rhetorical abilities – we have to take that into account – as well as his substance – he has both style and substance – he has met the standard of being a successful president, being an exceptional president," he said.
> ...


Thanks ML nice to know not all military is against Obama


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## Minimor (Oct 19, 2008)

> Please watch his interview, it was great...


Yes, mostly because he said what you want to hear!



If he had praised McCain and said he didn't care for Obama and his policies....I think you'd be considering him a little less smart.


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## loveminis (Oct 19, 2008)

I deleted my post.


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## littlesteppers (Oct 19, 2008)

YES I like it..Collin Powell..the man that sat and convinced the UN that Irak has weapons of mass distruction..

NOW endorses Obama -the peace maker- that never wanted to go to war..Collin Powell the man that sat and said to Scheiffer we are loosing the war in 2005..we never should have gone in..the man that "just followed orders"

and than retired..


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## Cathy_H (Oct 19, 2008)

> And McCain/Palin is the one abusing this* Joe idiot guy*..


I watched Samuel Joe Wurzelbacher the plumber on television this morning and he is far from an idiot - I would call him a responsible man.......... Joe said he has served in the military. He was raised to work for what the gets. His company is shut down but he WILL clean toilets if he has to as he believes in paying his own way and he will pay his bills... Joe also said he would have to work ten years to make $250,000........... He has no animosity toward either candidate but blames the negativity on the media.... Joe is emblamatic of the average American - he believes in a hand up - NOT a hand out! Joe calls Obama's plan welfare.

Regarding Colin Powell endorsing Obama

Powell did support the Iraq war...... Powell failed to mention that Obama has spent more than McCain on negative advertising - tens of millions more than McCain even. He also failed to point out that McCain has corrected some of the negative statements made about Obama..... He said Palin is not experienced - where is Obama's experience?

McCain has the support of over 200 retired generals and admirals.

At the end of the day it is not endorsements that choose the president but we the people.

Who is ready to lead from the very first day in the oval office?

One man is qualified and has led & one man has not

One man is experienced and one has written a couple of books and given some eloquent speeches

Who are you going to trust to keep our Country safe?


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## Pepipony (Oct 19, 2008)

Minimor said:


> > Please watch his interview, it was great...
> 
> 
> Yes, mostly because he said what you want to hear!
> ...



I have always thought Powell a brilliant man. I was shocked that he decided to play the political game. I wasnt shocked that he bailed out the instant he could. But then I see officers in a differnt light than most people. I know that while they wear the uniform they CANNOT go against what the Comm in Chief states. Doesnt mean that they agree with or disagree with them, they just cannot state it in public and continue to wear the uniform. Enlisteds are a whole nother story, they can say what they want at anytime.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 19, 2008)

> "Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who pay it -- in roads and airports and hospitals and schools


But Nobama's redistribution of money, his share the wealth program, isn't being put into roads, airports,hospitals and schools. It's going into the pockets of people who didn't earn it. I think it's wrong.



> Enlisteds are a whole nother story, they can say what they want at anytime.


I spit coffee all over my computer when I read that statement. After 25 years in uniform (as both enlisted and officer)I can assure you that (as written) that's hardly an accurate statement.

ETA I've always liked and respected Colin Powell. I thought he should have been our first african american president. I'm very disappointed in his support of Obama.


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## CyndiM (Oct 19, 2008)

I just thought of a 'new' way to praise Nobama since 'Messiah' has gone by the wayside.

And the focus is on his "Share the Wealth" plan, he can now be the "New and Improved 'ROBINHOOD' ."


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## Pepipony (Oct 19, 2008)

AppyLover2 said:


> > "Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who pay it -- in roads and airports and hospitals and schools
> 
> 
> But Nobama's redistribution of money, his share the wealth program, isn't being put into roads, airports,hospitals and schools. It's going into the pockets of people who didn't earn it. I think it's wrong.
> ...



Yes, I am sorry, they can say most anything they want, most anytime. They can have time to complain about those in power.

What is Obamas share the wealth program exactly as you have read about it?


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## Shaladar (Oct 19, 2008)

Pepipony???? Which branch of the military were you in?

Just wonderin.....

Sue


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## Pepipony (Oct 19, 2008)

Shaladar said:


> Pepipony???? Which branch of the military were you in?
> Just wonderin.....
> 
> Sue


I wasnt. I had wanted to join the USAF but my father and his father forbade me to join any branch, ditto with sister who wanted to go Navy. Dad was in the USAF, WWII and Korea. His dad was Navy.


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## Laura (Oct 19, 2008)

Pepipony said:


> AppyLover2 said:
> 
> 
> > > "Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who pay it -- in roads and airports and hospitals and schools
> ...


I was under the impression that the whole "share the the wealth" hoopla was brought about by a few second comment, made during his conversation with Joe The Plumber, that was blown ALL out of reasonable proportion. Of course I could be wrong, as I'm sure someone will come right along and point out


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 19, 2008)

I don't know if it was blown out of proportion or not. All I know is I don't like the concept. He has mentioned it several times since then.


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## Pepipony (Oct 20, 2008)

But you know, when he does state 'share the wealth' he is speaking about the top 2% of earners sharing the wealth. He isnt talking about the middle class or those that earn under $250k. And that is where the problem lies, people are taking this out of context and repeating it, over and over. They arent getting the basic fact correct, I think this is done on purpose from those at the top. And he isnt talk about taking huge amounts, percentage wise. He is trying to get this nation back on track. You cannot have a huge deficit and not tax. And with the way the economy is, you cannot tax the middle/lower classes more. So what is left? Those companies that make large amounts and people earning over $250k.

That all said. McCain has been talking about what Obama will/wont do ( and getting facts wrong) so much, that I dont know what exactly his plan is. Is he even saying? I wish, truely wish, John was the same man he was 3 years ago. I do not like the way his party or his team has turned his campaign into do as I say, not as i do. He needs to come out and explain that yes, he is against pork barrel spending, but why Palin did so as Mayor and Gov. Even if he just said, ya know, she did this because that was how people did it, but WE understand now that it isnt the way to go. In her defense, yes she lowered the amount Alaska asked for, but $123 million is more than the $18 million McCain gripes about Obama wanting.

Appylover, please explain why you think Obama wants to put money into pockets of those who didnt earn it.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

> 2% of earners sharing the wealth. He isnt talking about the middle class or those that earn under $250k.



No he isn't right now but lets face the cold truth.

He can't tax the poor because they have no money.

The rich will not tolerate any more taxes so they will hide their money.

*Who does that leave to get his money from?*

The middle class people - most of us here on this forum!


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

> Appylover, please explain why you think Obama wants to put money into pockets of those who didnt earn it.


Pepi I'm not sure what there is to explain. I think "earn" is the operative word here.

TO EARN:

"1 a: to receive as return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered

b: to bring in by way of return <bonds earning 10 percent interest>

2 a: to come to be duly worthy of or entitled or suited to <she earned a promotion>

b: to make worthy of or obtain for <the suggestion earned him a promotion>

— earn·er noun"

I personally don't care if he's only talking about taking the money of people who have 10B$. It's not his to take just like it isn't his place to determine who should get it. That just gives government more power.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

> QUOTE Appylover, please explain why you think Obama wants to put money into pockets of those who didnt earn it.


I saw the explanation somewhere so will have to look for it again.

Under Obama's plan people who did not pay any taxes will be getting money back. They did not work for it but they will be getting a share of "we the working class people's check".


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## Laura (Oct 20, 2008)

Cathy_H said:


> > QUOTE Appylover, please explain why you think Obama wants to put money into pockets of those who didnt earn it.
> 
> 
> I saw the explanation somewhere so will have to look for it again.
> ...


I'd love to see this laid out. If you work and get a *paycheck,* you pay taxes out of it in most circumstances...thus you are paying taxes. Now if your exemptions/tax credits are more than the taxes you paid, you get that money back. If you can afford charitable donations, you also can deduct those from any tax you will owe...so YOU can decide who gets "your" tax dollars. Are you suggesting that people who don't work at all (no unemployment benefits either) will get a refund? Huh?


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## Jill (Oct 20, 2008)

> But you know, when he does state 'share the wealth' he is speaking about the top 2% of earners sharing the wealth. He isnt talking about the middle class or those that earn under $250k.


WHY would this be okay in the US?

I bet only 2% of the population fits into a certain racial or religious groups. Is it also okay to treat these people disproportionately unfair, because they are only 2% of the population?

Did you ever read Animal Farm?


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## Jill (Oct 20, 2008)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Under McCain's tax plan.. YOU (middleclass) will pay more then Obama's tax plan.. Look it up..


Obama does not plan to continue the Bush Tax Cuts. In the recent words of Rudy Giuliani:



_When he [barack Obama] says that he's not going to continue the Bush Tax Cuts -- Let me translate that into plain English. He's going to raise taxes by more than any President has ever raised taxes in the past. That is precisely the mistake that was made in 1929 and 1930 that took a recession, a difficult one, and made it into The Great Depression._


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Mary Lou I've said it before and I'll say it again and again if necessary. As far as I'm personally concerned the difference that I would "save" in taxes under Obama is not nearly as important to me as the sound future of our country. Some times people need to look further than the end of their nose.


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## Pepipony (Oct 20, 2008)

AppyLover2 said:


> > Appylover, please explain why you think Obama wants to put money into pockets of those who didnt earn it.
> 
> 
> Pepi I'm not sure what there is to explain. I think "earn" is the operative word here.
> ...




Ya know what , I get it now, the question wont be answered, period. Even if I didnt ask it perfectly, you still know what I was asking. Not you necessarily but far too many times people state what their candidate stated, whether it was correct or not, and run from there as if it were gospel.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Pepi I'm sorry if my answer doesn't serve your purpose. It makes perfectly good sense to me.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

> In real numbers, 60.7 million people who have no tax burden at all will receive refunds from Obama,


Where are those refunds coming from? We hard working people.



> This means that Obama’s tax plan calls for giving money to some households that do not pay taxes,





> The problem with Obama’s characterization that his proposals are tax cuts is that refundable credits are calculated as outlays, or direct spending, *not as reductions in tax rates*, according to the Center. *This means that, in budgetary terms, some of Obama’s tax cuts are actually spending increases*


http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/arti...px?RsrcID=37519


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Interesting info Cathy. Thanks!


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 20, 2008)

AppyLover2 said:


> Pepi I'm sorry if my answer doesn't serve your purpose. It makes perfectly good sense to me.


And that is why you are voting for McCain/Palin ticket and those that don't agree with you are voting for Obama/Biden and never the twain shall meet. No matter what each side says things will remain the same, you thinking that your candidate will do better for the country and others thinking their candidate of choice will do better for your country.

everyone just


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