# Touchy little rear - need some advise



## sls (Oct 14, 2013)

I could really use some advise/help. I have been working with a very sweet little 34” Mare, 3yo. She was a little touchy on hind quarters but in working with her for a month or two, so far she has done well in the round pen and knows who cues. We have been working on long lines and she is doing fine here too. Problems started when we hooked the cart (quick release) to see her reaction. No weight bearing just the cart. First time no problem. Second time she walked out straight and did fine, until we came to where we were making a wide turn and she must have felt the shafts on her side and hind quarters and started feeling uncomfortable we calmed her down.

My questions is what is the next step. I heard of people using PVC pipes thru the tugs to get them use to touch on her side. Can anyone show me how this might be done with pictures. Or if you have had a similar issue in training what did you do to improve?

Much appreciated in advance.


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## Marsha Cassada (Oct 14, 2013)

I have used the pvc. It's easy to make; you just need two elbows and some straight pieces to make a U. It's a pretty good way to get a horse used to something coming up beside it. It isn't really heavy enough to simulate a cart in a turn, though it can help. But, if things get ugly, the pvc can't cause much damage, either to it or to the horse. We did not glue the joints. If you get too tangled up you can always pull the pipes out of the elbows.


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## studiowvw (Oct 14, 2013)

Nate Bowers' DVD gives plenty of ideas to help the horse get used to the feel, look and sound of the cart before committing to a hitch.

Best to get them understanding the feel of the breast collar, the breeching and the shafts.

One way is to tie a rope to a post or a gate.

Have the horse face the post (someone else hold the lead so her head stays facing the post.)

Pull the rope out straight (simulating the feel of a shaft) and move sideways so it contacts her side and hip. Wait till she moves way from the pressure.

Leave plenty of room on the other side so she can move away.

Once she learns to move one way (say to the right, with the rope on the left side), then put the rope on the other side of her and have her step away from that pressure. Take as long as it takes to get a thinking reaction of stepping away when she feels the pressure along her side. Could be 20 seconds, could be a few minutes or longer.

I recommend Nate Bowers' DVD as it opens your eyes to how the horse processes the pressures of harness and cart. Way cheaper than wrecking your cart, harness or horse.


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## Sandee (Oct 14, 2013)

I'm not saying that this or that will or won't work as each horse seems to be different. My mare is good with about everything and has been from the start. She had/has no problem with the crupper and no problem with the cart but try to line drive her and get one of the lines up under her tail and she bucks and has a fit for a minute at least before she calms down. So the pipes may work for some or the ropes but what I'm saying is if it doesn't work don't give up try a different way to train.


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## studiowvw (Oct 15, 2013)

So true - there are many ways to train and you shouldn't give up. Be inventive, think about what could happen, and go as slowly as she needs to.

Also best not to commit to a hitch until you have her understanding what to do when she feels pressure on her sides. You can use poles in the shafts (need two people to do this safely - person behind holds the shafts. Mini gets used to things along her sides. Poles should not stick in the tugs if she panics.

She could probably use lots more desensitization around her rear end. Be inventive and don't use anything that will trap her or injure her.

Once she is better, get her to pull a pole, using the traces, but use a quick release knot if things go bad.

Don't commit to a hitch until these pressures don't frighten her. No point in wrecking the cart or ruining the horse or injuring yourself.


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## Gone_Riding (Oct 15, 2013)

I found dragging a long stick in between me and the mini works really well to get it used to it being there while leading her. I ask her to turn so that she gets used to it touching her. Then I move to tying it with a quick release knot to the surcingle. Since one isn't as frightening as two, it's easier for the horse to accept. My girl would turn towards it to look at it, but after a while, she didn't care that it would touch her. When that's going well, I switch to the other side. Then I go to the PVC pipe pole set up. My girls have always accepted the poles so much easier this way.


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## sls (Oct 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the great ideas.


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 15, 2013)

All made from plumbers pipes from a local store and just pushed together- I did tape the joins after I was sure it all fitted. It is not actually as big as it looks- the angle is funny! I put wheels on it afterwards

The advantage of this rig is that the shafts have quite a lot of "bend" in them and are not as unforgiving as metal or wood, so the horse can hitch it's backside around a bit without feeling trapped.


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## sls (Oct 16, 2013)

This is a really inventive idea. I like you can drag or put actual wheels on. she is going to be a very slow process and that's okay.



rabbitsfizz said:


> All made from plumbers pipes from a local store and just pushed together- I did tape the joins after I was sure it all fitted. It is not actually as big as it looks- the angle is funny! I put wheels on it afterwards
> 
> The advantage of this rig is that the shafts have quite a lot of "bend" in them and are not as unforgiving as metal or wood, so the horse can hitch it's backside around a bit without feeling trapped.


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## paintponylvr (Oct 17, 2013)

This one actually would tie in after StudioWW's post.

You can also start by teaching her to push into the pressure of the breast collar by attaching a lead rope to the traces. Have another person walk far enough behind not to be kicked and after you start her out ground driving, they gradually add more pressure by pulling and your mare will learn to push into the traces. This does put the traces tight against their sides while pushing/pulling. I don't really have a good pic of this one.






Then using one pvc pipe or a pool noodle and drag on one side at a time. Then both sides.











Then attach the traces to weight - a tire, a pvc pole, a drag, a tarp.






When you are ready to start with the cart, if you are by your self, tie a lead rope so that it forms a "bridge" between the shafts about half way down. Then with her tied to something solid, your driving lines in your left hand, hold the long end of the lead rope and the shaft from the left side of your horse with your right hand. raise and lower the shafts along her sides. hold the shafts in the general position of where it would be hitched (the lead rope bridge between the shafts will support the cart over her back rather than the shafts going thru the shaft carriers) and press the shaft on her side. Then pull it towards you, causing the right shaft to press into her. If you feel she/you will do better - do this in the open. If she jumps forward, gets upset - you let the shaft go and the cart can slide off of her. Works better if she isn't fully harnessed (nothing for that lead rope over her back to catch on). Lead her forward a couple of steps, pause and leave the cart there and continue leading her. Go back and pick up the shafts again and set so her back is again supporting the shafts. lead again. Keep working on this until she is quiet. Then go to ground driving her with the cart just "sitting there". if she gets upset, she can/will jump forward and the cart literally just slides off. I don't have any pics at all of the above.

A helper can manage with the cart while you ground drive her. What I have is another type - where the pony is ground driven by one person and the cart is handled by a 2nd. Here is a pic where the shafts are being held and allowed to touch the filly...






These stages weren't just done in one day with each of these ponies. In the very first geldings' pic - he is still ground driving (I think that pic is in April) and hasn't been hitched. I'm not comfortable hitching him yet to a wheeled shaft or tongue vehicle - because he's still "so broncy"... next post will demo some of the "excitement" and "broncy" events (tomorrow nite)... That first gelding DID settle down when asked to start pulling logs. He is learning that bucking and hopping around just makes the work harder!!

To see the individual albums that show all these photos - Cupid, Ami, Kechi, GG. IF you want to see them in sequential order - once you open the album, go down to the bottom and work you way forwards from there... Each new group of dates (some separated by a block w/ date/time/place or event) starts at the beginning of that day/work and goes thru to finish. Also check out Koalah, Bell, Bit, Cassie, Flower, Farm maintenance and various pair and multiple albums... and some of the pics of our ponies are on a girlfriends ' albums... LP Painted Ponys

My pony driving friend and I do a lot of work together with each other's ponies. She has some equipment and obstacles at her farm that I don't have and vice versa. Her round pen is a little bigger than 60' (a lot of area to work in with a small shetland or mini horse!), I have both a 30' (portable) and a 50' round pen (semi-permanent w/ steel posts and 16' panels).


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## paintponylvr (Oct 17, 2013)

what it looks like when it goes "wrong"...

OMG - it's touching me, touching me, I'll run, run, run...






Some of the photos she used to have up have been removed. This mare did have a penchant for getting upset with the shafts pressing on her - especially when going downhill and having the breeching take the weight of the cart too. Several times she exploded - and either flipped the cart (and a couple of times bending the metal shafts) or trying to run away.  BUT here she is just 8 months later... I took this photo.






and she is also a great pair with the gelding that I sold to Vicki... Pulling logs, the disk harrow hooked to the forecart, the wagon for pleasure drives.






Both poles coming loose here - same day. You can see how these can break and become a problem, too.






and then look here -

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CCQ7oW-PZZM/TlUVTXCkfLI/AAAAAAAARw0/m8KfM_c8Z0w/s500/081611%2520018.1.jpg Vicki took this pic of me ground driving Kreature...

It's hard to believe it's been 2 years since those exploding pics were taken. Here is the pair working together on 2 October 2013.


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## sls (Oct 17, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the great thoughts.


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