# Skin/Food/Seasonal Allergies in Dogs



## Mona (Dec 27, 2007)

Shimmer(my Boxer that will turn one year on Saturday) has had some skin problems recently. She has off and on, has "sores" on her muzzle, under her chin and on the top of her head. They are itchy. Then late this Fall, she got a huge "rash", like little red bumps all over her belly, inside of her back legs etc. It cleared on it's own over time. She also gets a rash like thing on her legs. Also had a couple spots that almost looked like ringworm on her back legs.

Had her to the vet. He did not know exactly what it was, so tried a few simple things to start with. He said it was NOT ringworm, which I didn't think it was, because Molly, our Boston is not showing any signs of anything Shimmer has. He did a skin scaping to check for mange. She doesn't have the one type that is highly contagious, nor fleas/lice, because again, Molly is fine and those are all transmissable from one do to another. They did a skin scraping for the type of mange they can pick up from their dam, and it can come back from time time up until they are a year old, and nothing showed in that. They have also been on the heartworm stuff that is supposed to take care of fleas, lice, etc., so it shouldn't have been those either.

The vet put her on 10 days of antibiotics as he feels some of the skin issues are a fungal bacterial thing, and also I was giving a no name Benadryl med to help control the itching and allergy symptoms. She had sores as I mentioned/described above, and and was losing hair in a patchy pattern along her sides. You could not see the missign hair when looking in the direction of the hair growth, but if the light shone against the lay of her hair, you could see it then. It too was itchy. Sores on her head, legs, belly and under chin...was MAJORLY itchy, and she stunk too, no matter how often she was bathed and the bedding changed. He gave me a medicated shampoo to bath her with twice a week for 2 weeks, and another product that you put between the shoulder blades...it is a heartworm thing too, but it also covers mange, in case she did have that from her dam. So hopefully, between all of that, something will help her. I hope it is not going to be some sort of skin allergies she will have to be battling with for life!

She is done with the baths, and had the first of the 3 heartworm stuff to oput between her shoulder blades, and has completed all her pills. Now that I have stopped giving the allergy pills, her eyes seem "goopy" again, which she normally alway has, but it did seem to be lessened with the meds). She is starting to itch a little again too.

I asked the breeder about this, and she now informs me the sire has allergies, but since she switched feeds to a lamb/rice/chicken/rice forumula, he has not shown it in 2 years. Wish I had known about his allergies BEFORE I bought the dog. Are allergies somewhat hereditary? I am going to try switching her food too, hopefully that will work, but wondering if any of you can offer any expeience or knowledge with this type of thing??


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## Jill (Dec 27, 2007)

I think that corn can be a real culprit in some skin problems in dogs. We use a dog food, Nutro Natural Choice, which contains no corn and "brags" about it promoting good skin and coats.

When we got Kelsey, I was concerned because I had been told blue merle collies were prone to allergies. However, she has not ever had any issues. She grew up on Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy and now eats the adult formula, lamb & rice flavor.

_PS In the bullet points about the product, it says "Guaranteed to improve skin & coat"_


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## Vertical Limit (Dec 27, 2007)

I use the same as Jill.........the Lamb and Rice. I had a Jack Russell who had symptoms like Shimmer and I started with that *years* ago and it took it right away. I also have Cairns who are prone to different skin things but have never had a problem because they always get the Lamb and Rice. NO TREATS either unless it is the Nutro.

But you are going to get a million replys on this I am sure.........


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## Clarks Ltd Edition (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi Mona,

As you will probably remember - you helped us find a Anatolian puppy a little over a year ago. This dog has an allergy to corn. She will get sores on her cheeks and muzzle, and other places on her body and the hair will come out. They are very itchy too. Our Vet calls them "Hot Spots". She told us to try Lamb and rice dry dog food that does NOT have any corn in it. We changed food and we have NOT had any more "hot spots". Good Luck!! Molly


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## Jill (Dec 27, 2007)

Another PS, I do give them all "dinner" that I make. They get the Nutro Natural Choice free choice all day and for dinner, they get this thing I make for them using Barilla Plus Pasta (has 10 grams protein per serving), eggs, green beans, and ground meat. I think though switching to a good NO CORN diet will help a lot! Plus, I think lamb is one meat source that is the least likely to cause an allergy.


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## mininik (Dec 27, 2007)

Boxers and allergies, what fun! We have two, a Boxer and a Boxer mix. Both experienced allergy issues last summer. One always gets sniffly in the spring, due to all the pollen in the air. Last summer, that Boxer's pollen allergies worsened to the point where his face and paws became itchy and he itched and licked them raw. The raw spots then spawned a staph. infection. He had to have a Cortisone shot and was put on antibiotics and Chlorhexidine spray. After that was cleared up, the Boxer mix developed bad hot spots and had to have a Cortisone shot and was put on Prednisone.

Our dogs were treated by two different veterinarians. The first vet wasn't much help, relied heavily on trying drugs ($$$) and would never settle on a diagnosis (suggesting anything from skin cancer to allergies to hot spots). The second vet "knew" what the problem was, addressed it and the dog recovered quickly. He also recommended the dogs get bathed at least monthly (using a natural, hypoallergenic shampoo), to help keep the skin allergen free. We have also stopped using chemical products around the house, including carpet fresheners, cleaners, soaps, detergents, etc. The dogs diets were upgraded (again), so that now I only rotate between products on the Whole Dog Journal's list of approved foods, or offer raw or home cooked meals (Note: Just remember not to mix raw and kibble, as kibble takes longer to digest.). The dogs also only get healthy premade or natural treats, such as Zukes, Buddy Biscuits, Three Dog Bakery, or natural plain canned pumpkin, or natural plain non-fat yogurt. Their drinking water usually includes a shot of natural unpasteurised Apple Cider Vinegar. All of our dogs are now HEALTHY.

It's been my experience that allergies are usually more complex than just removing corn, or grains, or soy, or common meat or whatever from their diet, or avoiding just this or that product. I've got a dog who comes to me for grooming who has been found to be allergic to DUST MITES, among other things. Another dog, a Boxer, comes in weekly for baths to help with her environmental allergies, but she has also been upgraded to a better diet to help her body cope. If possible, I suggest you have your dog tested to see a sample of what she is allergic to. The results will likely surprise you, and then you'll be armed with more information than just guesswork. In the meantime, repeating the steps I've taken and outlined above can only help.


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## mininik (Dec 27, 2007)

Carol, you mentioned no treats for your dogs unless they are Nutro. I wanted to point out that there are a variety of awesome treats out there now, including many that are actually better than Nutro (which I use, as well). I suggest you check out Zukes, Buddy Biscuits and the Three Dog Bakery, for starters.

For those who may be curious, of the Nutro products, the Ultra line is the best (Whole Dog Journal approved this year) and Natural Choice is "okay," but do avoid Max. The difference is all in the ingredient list, the quality of which goes beyond looking for corn, but also other cheap fillers, as well as chemical preservatives and unnatural coloring (which are all known allergens and some of which are also known to contribute to cancer), plus the use of an actual meat source within the first three ingredients (not by products or unspecific source).


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## Vertical Limit (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi Nikki. Thanks. I know there are other things out there. What I meant to say is that if you are feeding something and it works but then you go and start giving your dog a bunch of the garbage "treats" out there your dog will still have problems. I am not a big "treat" giver but I will look at some of those you mentioned. I guess I am a MEAN MOMMY!


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## mininik (Dec 27, 2007)

Meanie.



Here I use various treats as reinforcements, or for keeping the dogs busy (stuffing Kongs). Variety helps with high and low value rewards and helps keep the dogs interested. But you are so right in that many treats you see (Milk Bones, rawhide, etc.) are just as bad or worse than the junk dog foods out there, and if a dog is allergic to something in it's diet, you should avoid that in treats, as well.


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## Mona (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks for the replies thus far.

OK, so if I have her tested for allergies, how do I go about this? Do I just tell my vet I want her tested, and he'll know what to test for, or ??? Or, will he send us to some sort of specialist that will run the tests??

Also, in as far as treats go...I do feed a variety of treats, ranging from Denta-Stix, to bone shaped busicuits(different brands) to soft treats, and then I also buy "Rollover" and cut it into little pieces to give them. What if any of these could I continue with? I really like the Denta-Stix as I give it to them as a "special treat" after I am done trimming nails, and the Rollover I think is a more "natural" type of food/treat. I would hope I could maybe continue with those?


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## mininik (Dec 27, 2007)

You'll want a referral to a specialist for allergy testing.

Denta Stix are made by Pedigree. Below are the ingredients. (I avoid ALL Pedigree products. In fact, I no longer pick up just any random box of dog biscuits or bag of bones, no matter WHO makes them, without approving what's on the label. Even great companies sometimes switch ingredients, or sell out.)

RICE FLOUR, WHEAT STARCH, GLYCERIN, GELATIN, GUM ARABIC, CALCIUM CARBONATE, NATURAL POULTRY FLAVOR, CELLULOSE POWDER, SODIUM TRIPOLYPHOSPHATE, SALT (IODIZED), POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, VITAMINS (CHOLINE CHLORIDE, L-ASCORBYL-2-POLYPHOSPHATE [sOURCE OF VITAMIN C], VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, NIACIN, d-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, FOLIC ACID, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, RIBOFLAVIN [VITAMIN B2], PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE [VITAMIN B6], dl-ALPHA TOCOPHEROL ACETATE [sOURCE OF VITAMIN E], THIAMINE MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1]), POTASSIUM SORBATE (A PRESERVATIVE), SMOKE FLAVOR, ZINC SULPHATE, GREEN TEA EXTRACT, TURMERIC, IRON OXIDE, COPPER SULFATE.

As a healthy alternative, I suggest Merrick's assortment of bones and chews. You'll still have to supervise the chewing activity, and it may take a bit for your dog's system to get used to the bones, but they are great for their teeth and minds. Kong type toys stuffed with healthy snacks are also great.

Below is a link to a list of Ingredients to Avoid feeding your dog:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients

This is where you're going to have to start learning to read labels. Some ingredients go by more than one name, or are listed in parts so they aren't immediately obvious. Allergies or no, none of us should be feeding these ingredients to our dogs. As I mentioned previously, there are many healthy options out there you can try.


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## tinacvt (Dec 27, 2007)

Allergies can be hereditary. Mininik is correct in the diet department, I have a cat with bad food allergies so I feed her natural balance duck and green pea. You need to go to a novel protien and cut out all fillers.


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## Sandyboy1 (Dec 27, 2007)

My black lab has skin issues. I've changed his feed to Hills Science Diet for dogs with sensitive skin, and he recently finished a two-week regimen of antibiotics plus antifungal medication, both given orally. Also, keeping his claws trimmed and putting hunting booties on his hind feet prevented him from scratching deeply, enabling the sores to heal faster. For now, the vehement bouts of scratching have subsided.

Pam


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## mininik (Dec 27, 2007)

Science Diet - Sensitive Skin Adult

Ingredients:

Brewers rice, corn meal, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, dried egg product, vegetable oil, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), flaxseed, chicken liver flavor, DL-methionine, L-lysine, L-tryptophan, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, salt, calcium carbonate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta-carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement)

If that's the product you've switched your dog to, I'll bet the drugs are doing more good than the ingredients above. If you check the list of Ingredients to Avoid (http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients), many are found in this product. While it may work for some dogs, I am for giving my dogs the best nutrition possible, without unnecessary ingredients. Science Diet is not cheap, the company spends a lot of money on advertising. For the same price or a bit more, I have no doubt you can find something with better quality ingredients that your dog will flourish on. I'm curious what your dog was fed previously?

"PS." Keeping nails filed down and hunting booties on are excellent suggestions for keeping your dog from itching itself raw while you work to find a solution (provided your dog will keep the booties on).


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## mininik (Dec 27, 2007)

For a quick comparison, here's the ingredient list for a grain free low protien/high carb. product, Natural Balance - Sweet Potato & Venison Formula

Sweet potatoes, potatoes, salmon, salmon meal, canola oil (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols),

Potato fiber, natural flavor, salmon oil, flaxseed, potassium chloride, choline chloride, inulin, taurine, l-carnitine, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, d-calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid (vitamin B9)

... and below is the ingredient list for the grain free (high protein/low carb.) product, Natura's Evo Large Dog/Small Bites:

Turkey, chicken, turkey meal, chicken meal, potato, herring meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols),

Natural flavors, eggs, potassium chloride, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, garlic, apples, carrots, tomatoes, cottage cheese, alfalfa sprouts, dried chicory root, ascorbic acid, taurine, lecithin, rosemary extract, vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D supplement, beta carotene, vitamin B12 supplement, biotin, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, calcium iodate, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium thermophilum fermentation product, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product

Like many brands of dog food on the market, both of these brands come in different "flavors," providing a range of protein and carb. sources to choose from. Unlike many poorer quality brands of food, note the absense of not only grains like rice, but also corn, as well as artificial colors and chemical preservatives. Also unlike many poorer quality brands, these products are suitable for "all life stages."


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## Whitestar (Dec 27, 2007)

Mona

Some suggestions. Boxers should not be fed or watered in a metal dish, they seem to get a contact dermatitis from it, but it sounds like more. It is possible it is a contact dermatitis which means whatever she is coming in contact with causes the problem, did you change laundry detergent, start using a fabric spray, anything that can cause her to be itching? Does she lay on your couch, floor, bed, her own bed that something different has been added? It is also possible grass allergy although I am sure there isnt much grass where you are now.

To check for an digestive allergy, you can to start off with a clean slate, & I mean clean. Which means you feed one type of food, no other treats, no table food nothing. It takes a long time for skin to clear up, but you can notice a difference in the itchy part. It does no good to put your pet on a specialized diet & then give it treats that may be causing the problem. You can use the kibble as a treat if you have to do treats, or even baby carrots are good, they are high fiber & can help clean your dogs teeth. But pick out a good food & there are many ( IAM rabbit & green peas... Purina makes prescription skin diets & I although others do not agree, I do suggest Science Diet sensitive skin or even the Hills Prescription Z/D silver or gold.. I am practice manager of a Vet clinic & have seen the difference in what it does, not every pet will do good on every diet just like somethings work for some horses or humans & others it does not, sometimes it is a game of chance that takes some tinkering)

Has your Vet checked for yeast? He should do a skin scraping to see if her underlining problem is yeast, the itchy opens the skin & the yeast takes over which is what makes her smell. I would also suggest a scrape for demodex & frankly unless you have do a number is scrapings & really do them right, sometimes your vet can miss them. A good folicular flushing shampoo can help with the smell, but she may need to be on an anti yeast medication. Does she have smelly ears?

We see SOOO many skin problems, being a non profit clinic, I swear it is the number one in office visits but usually in the warmer months. We are so lucky to be able to help pets at a decent price, otherwise dogs would be bloody raw from itching because owners cant afford $150 to have their pets treated. Frankly, demodex is the number is problem....

I hope this has helped a bit....email me if you have any specific questions. Debbie


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## Sonya (Dec 27, 2007)

My mix has allergies to grass... He gets the itches every late spring/early summer...We usually end of having to put him on prednisone for a couple weeks when it flairs up. Also the same dog gets very dry skin in the winter months and will be itchy...we solved that problem by adding a humidifier to our house...and every once and a while he needs a benadryl. I tried adding some flax to his diet and it didn't seem to help, but the humidifier does, so we leave it run just for him.

Good luck finding the problem, it is frustrating when you can't narrow it down.


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## Sterling (Dec 27, 2007)

My old Boxer girl had skin alergies I remember until I switched her diet. With her it seemed to be that red dye stuff that is in some dog foods to color them and make the soft kibble look tasty and meaty. Once I switched her over to Nutro Naturals she stopped losing her hair every spring on her flanks. She would also get the itchies and bumpies on her chin and the vet suggested I stop feeding her in a plastic bowl. I had to switch her over to metal feed and water and that seemed to clear her up. No more problems after I did all that with her. Each dog is an individual as with people....looking for the culprit can be frustrating. Case in point.....with Lakota just recently she dealt with a bout of Pyoderma (canine acne) on her chin. I had changed her from Nutro Natural over to Canidae which they say is much better for them. Tweety (Boxer) was ok with it...but then Lakota starts getting the pyoderma...vet suggested change feeds again so I went back to Nutro and seems to have cleared up. It seems like maybe even one little ingredient in the Canidae may not agreed with her. Now I'm in the process of investigating her toys.....and the treats she gets.


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## Jeannie B (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi Mona, gee I know how frustrating not knowing the cause of this can be!





My Sheltie Niki (who passed away last July), had allergies big time and our vet never did find out why.

I still think it was corn. The problem was though Niki was on a prescribed food because of her kidney problem so the itching persisted

Niki also had several bouts of Hot Spots which caused a really bad odor.





Once she had a hot spot on the top of her head between her ears. It had gotten a bit crusty by the time we discovered it and thats when it began to smell really bad.

I took Niki to the vet and she confirmed it was a hot spot. She gave me some Panolog ointment for it. I swear by this cream Mona. I have had to use it several times over the years and always have a tube on hand.

Hot spots areas have to be cleaned really well! My vet suggested a clean wash cloth with soap and water, rinse well, dry thoroughly and apply the ointment. Sometimes if the area is really bad I have had to shave around the area to get all the dried puss to make sure the area around it is also clean.

It should be repeated at least 3 times a day according to my vet.

These darn hot spots can appear anywhere on a dog and alot of times you smell a problem before you actually see a problem!





I hope its nothing serious Mona.


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## Mona (Dec 27, 2007)

OK, without further testing at this point, and just switching to a lamb or chicken and rice based food, how long should it be before I start to see results? (approximately)


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## mininik (Dec 27, 2007)

I definitely agree with the suggestions regarding possible environmental allergens, which is what I posted about earlier, as well. I prefer ceramic dishes over plastic or metal. I find it interesting that Whitestar's clinic has such a high occurance of demodex. Most dogs have demodex mites on them from birth and pups that are affected by them are usually able to fight the mites back to a healthy population once their immune system has matured. Mature dogs that are affected are usually afflicted with some other ailment and you're right, it is hard capture the little buggars on a scraping, though one should be done.





What's amazing to me is that a dog can get enough nutrition from what's in S/D, or Purina, or Iams/Eukanuba products. Just take a look at any of the ingredient lists. To me it's like a person who is allergic to nuts who stops showing a reaction when switched to eating McDonalds meals instead of a diet that includes trail mix. That may do fine (for a while or their lifetime), but it's not a healthy, balanced diet.

Mona - Instead of switching to a common protein and carb. source, I suggest you try a formula with Rabbit, Venison, Duck or Herring with Sweet Potato, etc. No matter what, a better quality diet won't hurt. If the changes you make are going to help, you should expect to see a difference in about two months. It takes time for the body to relieve itself of the allergens and your dog is likely coping with more than one. Just in case, you should also be changing out anything in your dog's environment that you can which may be a contributor (such as regular shampoos/conditioners, detergents, cleaners, carpet and air fresheners, etc.).


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## ChrystalPaths (Dec 28, 2007)

I'll risk jumping in here as well. Dogs just can't process corn well. Corn is the #1 allergin with feeds and dogs and even cats! Fia (schipperke) had exactly what you describe....Science diet was suggested, as was Nutro nut you must read....oftimes corn and wheat are dog sensitive. I use Premium Edge Skin & Coat. It is a salmon based feed with carrots, peas, taters and a bit of rice with glucosamine and other great stuff. Costs about $30/40 lbs and all 3 dogs are gorgeous and no more itching.


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## Dona (Dec 28, 2007)

I can definitely relate to this, and feel for what you are going thru, Mona!





Our Pyr "Panda" has an ongoing battle with skin allergies. Switching to another food without testing....is just spinning your wheels. Panda would get horrible hot spots. It is actually an "oily" sebhorria. His entire back would ooze with a coating of what felt sticky (almost like honey)....and being an outside dog, living with the horses, he of course is always dirty. That sticky stuff on his skin was a breeding ground for dirt & bacteria!

He also has chronic ear infections, which many times goes along with the skin allergies. I was doing everything, special baths & dips, clipped him down & applied antibacterial ointments. He was an absolute mess! Nothing was working. So, I sprung to have him tested for allergies. OMG....you should see the long list of stuff this dog is allergic too!



There are over 50 things on the list....some of which are impossible to keep him away from: grass, pollen, MANY different types of food, etc, etc....

The vet suggested only TWO dog foods that would work for him for the food part of his allergies. Fortunately, one of them is relatively easy to find, and not too expensive. Purina One Beef & Rice. Panda can have beef....but not a lot of other things. Dogs are all different, So....switching to another food without testing, is just spinning your wheels, IMHO.

For all the other allergies, dust, pollen, grass, etc.....he is on monthly shots, which I give myself.

And even after doing all this, it hasn't gotten rid of his hot spots or ear infections entirely. BUT....they are much better & easier to manage....and I'm sure Panda feels better.

Good luck Mona.....


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## minie812 (Dec 28, 2007)

We had a GSP that had severe allergies. We have a mite that is in S.W. Kansas that was causing some of the problem (saliva when they bite) it was seasonal (hunting time) had to bath her and have her on steroids part of the time. I did not like using meds all the time so would bath her in Baking Soda. Also was allergic to some of the pesticides used on the yard (no more of that) and stuff used in the carpets to prevent stains (linoluem floors was best for her) For 13 years we dealt with it (would not have had it any other way) She was the BEST dog we ever had! She passed away this summer and we both miss her terribly!


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## Sonya (Dec 28, 2007)

> What's amazing to me is that a dog can get enough nutrition from what's in S/D, or Purina, or Iams/Eukanuba products. Just take a look at any of the ingredient lists.


I think every dog is different. My dog is on SD W/D, it is available by prescrip only (not for being overweight though, for sensitive stomach)....with the help of Michigan State University (one of the top vet colleges in the mid-west) this is the ONLY food he can eat without throwing up, diaharrea. Is he healthy? He is a 100lb lab that is 12 years old (has arthritis and has had mast cell cancer twice) but he still runs and plays sometimes like a pup...he gets his teeth cleaned every year and my vet says he has the best teeth of any 12 yr old dog he's seen. So I'd say, yes, he is healthy and it works for him...just like people, what works well for some, does not always work well for others. I swear by SD for my dog.


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## Danielle_E. (Dec 28, 2007)

Hi Mona





Being your dog is a boxer I am not sure if this would apply or not but our dog is a golden retriever and he gets "hot spots" which are VERY itchy to him but he has what we call a "double" coat and when he gets wet and it doesn't dry properly he ends up with these. I know when it first happened, last winter, and I took him into our vet's she was surprised because she said most dogs get this in the summer but Fuller loves to go out and roll in the snow and tunnel, lol. As a matter of fact he has a "hot spot" right now near the top of one ear. I had to shave the area and start scrubbing with an antibacterial soap and then I apply a tea tree product which allieviates the itching and helps promote the healing process. The last time (last winter) he did have to be put on antibiotics as it flared up really fast. It could also be allergies that Fuller has combined with what I mentioned above. I just changed Fuller's diet to a new food, no corn, no soy, no fillers... it's expensive BUT he loves it and time will tell if this helps. There is also a spray that is sold at Pet Smart for "hot spots" or any kind of skin problem that has Tea Tree in it and other soothing things that you might like to try. You can do a search about "hot spots" on the net.

Here is the link to the food I now feed (they have it at Pet Smart) and the one I feed Fuller is the By Nature Organic (no soy, no corn, ...) and he is a finicky dog and LOVES it.

http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/


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## Mona (Dec 28, 2007)

Thanks again everyone. I just wanted to mention a couple of things...first of all, I don;t think Shimmer's problem is actually "hot spots". I had looked that up in my vet books here and the images shown and the way it is described, the hot spots are a larger spot, whereas Shimmer is like tiny little pimples where the bumps do show up. Down each side, where she was missing hair, it did look more like a mange, where there was no actual skin irritation, open sores or sores at all...just splotchy areas of missing hair that was itchy. She did get the little bumps down the insides of her front legs, the back of her legs, under her chim and on the top of her head. Not totally covered or anything, but those were the areas that were affected.

Now that I have been worrying over the food, I have been thinking more about when this all started. It was in October that I first noticed this down the insides of her front legs and on her head. That was also when shegot the bad rash on the underside of her belly but that in time, did go away on it's own, but she had it about a month or more before it was totally gone!

Anyway, when I first noticed it, I thought it may be due to mange from fox, wolves, or even deer? The reason being, hunting season had just opened, and I don't know if she found a deer carcas in the pasture next to us that someone had shot and left, or what it was, but she came in with some slight bloody looking stuff on the inside of her front legs, like she had been eating/chewing on something. I thought maybe if she went to where a wild animal had also been at the "kill", then maybe she picked something up that way. I started tieing her up most of the time after that.

But now that I think back, I also remember her getting sprayed by a skunk late last Fall, would have been around that time too, and I had no skunk shampoo and it happened at about 11:00 at night and I had to get her bathed. Human shampoo does nothing, so I had some odour control floor cleaner here and I used that to bath her in, hoping it would draw the skunk odour out of her, so now I wonder if that(the chemicals in the cleaner) may have been the cause of all this? Just a bad reaction to that??

Her skin is not all gooey and sticky and was slightly stinky. I have been smelling her ears all along, watching for that, as I have dealt with that in the past with another dog, but she only has a slight smell...a normal ear smell. The vet checked that too, and all was OK.


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## mininik (Dec 28, 2007)

No doubt every dog IS different, Sonya, but you can't get blood from a turnip. Ingredients don't lie. Lots of folks eat junk food daily, yet they don't all appear to be fat or dying from the cancer-causing ingredients. In fact, some of them look pretty good! That doesn't mean their bodies aren't ailing from it, or they couldn't benefit by changing their diet, upgrading to better ingredients and leaving out the chemicals and artificial coloring. If it's an option, why wouldn't you? I often hear people say their dog can only eat this or that product when there are literally HUNDREDS of products out there, many of which are better than the product they've chosen (which is often veterinary recommended). I'm talking ingredients here, not just my personal attachment to a certain brand. Fact is, vets are not all nutritionalists. If I had allergies, I would not go to my general practictioner for advice on what to eat and expect that doctor to know the variety of things I could try, nor would I settle on a diet they suggested if I knew I could do better. As far as prescription diets go, I helped one owner switch from their S/D prescription diet for DIABETES, and that dog is now _thriving_... without peanut hulls, etc.


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## mininik (Dec 28, 2007)

Mona, has your vet done any scrapings? Sarcoptes and Cheyletiella can both be caught by a dog from wild animals, but there are so many things this could be I still say allergy testing should also be done. The chemical bath last year was definitely not a good idea, and if what was in that stuff soaked into your dog's system it could definitely be a contributor. If this were my dog, I would also consider a natural detox program as well as a bland, homemade diet.


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## Sterling (Dec 28, 2007)

Mona...is this what Shimmer's looks like? My old Boxer girl used to get this. It's common in Boxers.

http://www.dermvet.com/caninesfalopecia.htm


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## Ashley (Dec 28, 2007)

I havent experianced any food allegies in my dogs. And considering I can find a reliable food sorce around here i am suprised.

My biggest boxer problem is the excessivly loud snoring, drooling on everything she touches, and excitement peeing. I can handle all but the pee.

That said I have a cocker who has really dry skin. She does the best o n the food mentioned above.


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## Sonya (Dec 28, 2007)

> No doubt every dog IS different, Sonya, but you can't get blood from a turnip.


I understand what you are saying. My dog was at MSU for quite a while, tried many many diets (of course not all) including a raw food diet and organic diet...none of it worked except for what he's on now. There may be ingredients in it that may not be the healthiest...but I look at it like medicine... just because a medicine has harmful side effects that doesn't mean you stop taking it.....you have to weigh the side effects to the benefit. In my dogs case at the rate he was going, he would not be alive right now had we not found a food he could keep down...it just happened to be SD w/d so I will stick to it. The dog I am referring to does not have food allergies though, he has IBS.


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## Mona (Dec 28, 2007)

Yes mininik, my vet did do a skin scraping, but he could not see any mange mites, but he wanted me to treat her for it anyway, since he said many times they can have it and not show up in the scraping, so we did treat her for it to be on the safe side.

No Cheyenne, she was nothing even near like that looks. You couldn't even see her splotches of missing hair unless you looked against the growth of hair, and then it was still not real badly noticeable. I wish I would have taken pics. I tried to get some now, but nothing showed up as it is clearing up now. All under her neck, down her front legs, and her face and head are all clear. She has little scars that remain on her head, as you can see here, and she still has some sores on her one back leg, but everything else is either cleared up or coming along well. If you look at the pics of her head here, that is how it looked on her side....like little spots of sparse hair where some had fallen out and some remained.

Here are some pics of what it looks like. I am REALLY sorry about keeping the one pic full size, but it is the only one that kind of shows the hair on her side how it was losing hair. Where it looks almost white, those are the spots the hair came out.


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## Sterling (Dec 28, 2007)

Yes Mona that does look different than the seasonal flank alopecia. Another thing that comes to mind is poison ivy/oak/simac....? Since it is healing up now that it's cold and winter it'll be interesting to see if she gets it again next season...I hope not ...poor baby!


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