# Mini Horse Hoof Angles



## Knottymare (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm brand new to mini horses but I've been around big horses my whole life. I've always been fascinated by the hoof. Hooves are seriously amazing.

I don't know if it's just the photos, or if perhaps my eyes are not what they used to be but it seems like in a lot of the show pix I see of minis and frequently in the casual pix as well, the angles of their feet are not right. Like you can see the pastern coming down at a nice angle and then the hoof just drops off in a more extreme angle. Lots of long heels. Or really long toes. But mostly long heels. Some even look like they've been trimmed at the angle you'd trim a goat's hoof.

Is it hard to keep proper angles on mini's feet? Is there something I'm missing? I hope my question doesn't sound rude. It's not any particular person or people...

Warning: I have a LOT of questions... I hope you will bear with me


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## Katiean (Feb 21, 2011)

I had a lot of problems with my Farrier and angles. I have one mare that naturally grows a ton of heel. Then we have DG in the pen and it just wears the hoof that much faster. So a normal trim for this mare should be take off the heel and leave the toe. She would take the same off all the way around. When I would say something about what she was doing, she would tell me the mare has an abnormally large frog and she couldn't take off any more heel. Then I have 2 that wear off the heel. They have what I call pancake feet. Again I had the same problem in reverse. They grew a ton of toe and would wear the heel. She would take the same amount of hoof off all the way around. The hoof looked just the same after it was trimmed as it did before. Just smaller. Different horses need different care and I think that most farriers today just have one way of trimming.


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## Riverrose28 (Feb 21, 2011)

Mini hooves should be trimmed the same as big horses, but many farriers can't seem to get it right. The hoof should be at a 45 degree angle when looked at from the side, but a lot of trimmers leave way too much heel. They should also have the soles pared and the frog trimmed just like the big guys. If the frog is not trimmed I have actually seen it extend out protruding under the heel. Right now I have a problem with a yearling that makes him look like he has club feet in the front because he needs his heels trimmed more often then the toe, each horse is different. This guy has been started on his show diet, so I think that is one of the reasons his hooves are growing more quickly.


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## Marsha Cassada (Feb 21, 2011)

One of my boys has naturally very upright hooves. If I don't keep him on a regular trimming schedule, he looks like he is standing on a coffee can. It took nearly 3 years before my newly-discovered barefoot trimmer was able to train his hoof to grow more correctly. I began to understand how the hoof supports the horse. His hooves are finally beginning to widen. He is 15 this year.

My trimmer explained to me that their hooves are as hard as large horses, but since they dont' weigh as much they can't wear the hooves down as readily.


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## chandab (Feb 21, 2011)

Horses are horses, so minis should also be trimmed according to the appropriate angles for their conformation, but...



Marsha Cassada said:


> My trimmer explained to me that their hooves are as hard as large horses, but since they dont' weigh as much they can't wear the hooves down as readily.


As Marsha said, due to their lighter weight, they don't always wear their hooves as readily.

I have a couple that tend to grow tons of heel, and right now have one with more toe. I have two with issues, so farrier comes every 4 weeks, everyone else gets rotated through on an 8 week schedule. My new farrier is wonderful, and now that almost everyone is balanced like they should be, even if we go a little over "normal" trim times, they still look good. I say almost, as I have those couple that still need more careful consideration.


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## midnight star stables (Feb 21, 2011)

It took me years to get a great farrier that would LISTEN to what I want. I had one mare that farriers mad her clubfooted! It took months to fix her, but you wouldn't know she had ever had an issue now.

I find that many farriers have a hard time getting down to that level just because of size. I have also found farriers think that the miniatures are just pets, and that there is little need to do it right.

That said, some bloodlines do have a trait of being clubfooted.


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## wingnut (Feb 21, 2011)

For us new comers to the horse ownership game, could you include pics of what is not right and what is? I'm a visual learner. I believe my farrier is doing a good job with our girls (he and his wife raised minis before, so my minis are not new to him), but I'd like to see what everyone means when they say "grows tons of heel" or "very upright hooves."

Thanks!


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## disneyhorse (Feb 21, 2011)

Yes, you will see a lot of minis with more heel... and that often is a case of not trimming often enough or enough heel. The little guys don't have a lot of weight to them, so they don't press down on their heels to spread them as much as a larger horse. In draft horses, you see the OPPOSITE... they are so heavy they have a difficult time growing a lot of heel.

Genetics also has a lot to do with it... club footedness is genetic and not something that I see miniature breeders putting a lot of emphasis on to breed out.

Andrea


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## Joanne (Feb 21, 2011)

A good farrier is crucial to a miniature horse's health.

We have one we just LOVE and she has been great for us.

Babies are perhaps the most critical to get started right. Some of ours have a lot of toe in their first month and without trimming the toe back they will keep streching the back tendons. If they are born thsi way we might have them trimmed when they are a couple days old. The heels may not need to be touched at all on those.

We had a different farrier for about six months once when my farrier had surgery and was recovering.Lots of problems with him. He seemed on a "how many can I get done in an hour" game. The results were not good.

The point is the same whether you are trimming a mini or a full size horse - a balanced foot.

Even older horses can get their feet trimmed correctly and improve their balance. It is never too late to get them balanced again.

Without it, they cannot walk correctly. We have had horses come here that did not have a balanced foot that once corrected, lost weight as they could finally move better ane felt better exercising.


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## vickie gee (Feb 21, 2011)

I am fortunate in that my farrier is owner/instructor of his own farrier school and is close enough down the road from me that he does not add in a "gas charge." He always brings his son and sometimes one of his students. They do great work. He pays extra attention to my little one that was born with leg problems and cannot bend her front legs and drags one of them to the point that she files it down square. We sometimes trim and file ourselves but always call him for the "next time" just to get them back in good shape. He always gives us pointers as to who needs what while he is trimming up.


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## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2011)

Our farrier does an excellent job and keeps them trimmed based on the conformation/structure. We have one of our original trio that has horrid feet (our pet gelding), he grows alot of toe, and not alot of heel, and that doesn't come straight down as it should. So we trim him often and work to keep him comfortable. He has by far the worst feet I've seen on a Mini.

But I do agree, I've seen some GAWD-awful trim jobs. A friends horse use to look like he was wearing high heels, she switched to our farrier and her horse looks fabulous now.


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## chandab (Feb 21, 2011)

Joanne said:


> The point is the same whether you are trimming a mini or a full size horse - a balanced foot.
> 
> Even older horses can get their feet trimmed correctly and improve their balance. It is never too late to get them balanced again.
> 
> Without it, they cannot walk correctly. We have had horses come here that did not have a balanced foot that once corrected, lost weight as they could finally move better ane felt better exercising.


Boy, is that the truth.

I've been through many farriers over the years; sometimes changing due to my moving to a new area, sometimes changing due to farrier leaving and sometimes changing due to the farrier sucks. My current farrier is the best I've ever had for balancing my horses, he got my senior half-Arab balanced, the most balanced he'd probably been in his whole life. He trimmed my husband's horse, whom only my husband has "trimmed" since owning him, and the horse is much more balanced in his gait now, he was a bit of a stumble-bum before, now he's less clumsy (hubby thinks he's trimmed too short now, but he's balanced and moving well, which my husband isn't used to). The minis are all getting balanced. The new farrier always talks about balanced hooves, not necessarily certain angles, but balanced for the horse's conformation.


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## MiLo Minis (Feb 21, 2011)

I have known some people with full size horses to leave their babies for up to as much as a year old before giving them their first trim. This would be completely disastrous for a Mini. They are so light in weight that left to their own devices they ruin their feet. They need frequent trimming starting pretty much as soon as they loose their foal slippers and continuing every few weeks to monthly after that. Sometimes you even need to trim off the foal slippers if they are not on hard enough ground to allow them to wear it off themselves. I have had the best feet from foals born outside on good ground, ones that are up and racing around ASAP. Born in a softly bedded stall early in the season they don't develop as well or as quickly. It has been my experience that their feet develop their shape/angle in the first year of growth and that shape/angle can stay with them the rest of their life.

Just like full size horses the angle of their hoof needs to match that of the angle of their pastern. Some Minis are born with a steep or low pastern and so need their feet trimmed to match but if you see that they don't match that is almost always lack of or poor farrier care and can most often be improved with good trimming over time. The earlier you catch it the better, the older they are the slower you have to go.


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## mydaddysjag (Feb 21, 2011)

I had been trying to find a new farrier for 5 years, and finally the guy I wanted is able to trim my guy. My old farrier was terrible at leaving way too much heal, and none of the feet ever looked alike. The angles were way off. Both of my horses looked club footed, and it wasn't their conformation, it was the trim. Not only did it look terrible, it was affecting their movement. One trim by the new farrier and my horse is already moving much better.

I'll see if I can find some pics that show my old farriers handy work. For what its worth, the old farrier did a great job with big horses, he just couldnt get the minis right.


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## chandab (Feb 21, 2011)

mydaddysjag said:


> For what its worth, the old farrier did a great job with big horses, he just couldnt get the minis right.


It should be the same "work" for either big or small, but I imagine the "standing on your head" to get the job done is where some farriers run into trouble getting a good job done on minis.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Feb 21, 2011)

And no one has mentioned yet the fact that some of those God-awful show trims are done on purpose to try and give the horse action without making them measure in any bigger.



It makes me want to smack their owners when I see how uncomfortable those poor horses are!

I got spoiled with my original farrier- he left hooves (big or small) perfectly balanced and so correct it was a pleasure just to look at them. LOTS of experience there, one of the best in the industry in our area. Unfortunately we had a disagreement over how short was "too short" on my mini (he kept coming up lame after every trim) so I had to switch to someone else. This person isn't as consistent in her trims as the other guy but she's very willing to listen to the owner and correct things if I'm not happy so we get along well. My yearling colt needed trims two or three times as often as my older gelding so she gave me a rasp and showed me how to work on him to help keep him in check between visits and I eventually graduated to a set of nippers as his toe would get insanely long in just a couple of weeks. He was naturally a little bit over at the knee as well but I've noticed with proper trimming for the last year and a half he's now standing pretty much straight. And thank God, as he's gotten heavier his feet are finally starting to grow more evenly! I was despairing of them that first year.



My farrier is much happier with his feet now too, she comments each time she's out on how much better they're growing.



I suspect it's a combination of age, weight, and lots of running uphill and down over sand, mud, dirt, grass, gravel and pavement.

I can post some "toe too long" photos this evening if you want, the ones that make me wince lest anyone think I don't mind my horses looking that way.





Good feet are extremely important to me as I compete over rough cross-country terrain that most big horses require special shoes to handle, and my boys are doing it barefoot.

Leia


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## Knottymare (Feb 21, 2011)

chandab said:


> The new farrier always talks about balanced hooves, not necessarily certain angles, but balanced for the horse's conformation.


Very accurate statement. To say that all horses should be at a particular angle is ignoring the minutia of differences between each horse and even each foot on the same horse. I'll see if I can find a good link to what I mean about good feet and bad feet for the person who asked...


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## Knottymare (Feb 21, 2011)

Here is a fairly good illustration of hoof angles.

What I have seen in a lot of the pix of minis is the illustration #4


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## nnadams (Feb 21, 2011)

Knottymare said:


> Here is a fairly good illustration of hoof angles.
> 
> What I have seen in a lot of the pix of minis is the illustration #4






Thank you!!


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## attwoode (Feb 21, 2011)

I agree with the other comments on here. A well balanced and well trimmed horse will generally wear and grow hoof more evenly and you really just have to cut off the old growth. The problem comes with poor conformation and also poor trimming where the angles (tendons) are not correct and pressure is uneven. These hooves require adjustments to the natural wear such as taking more toe or heel. A problem that I have seen with my farrier is that he seemed to set the foot by trimming the frog, trimmed the heel to match, and then trimmed the same amount off the rest of the hoof - that is fine with a balanced hoof. If you do that on a hoof that doesn't have adequate heel or toe pressure you just make the problem worse.

I think that minis generally need to be trimmed at the frog/heel and then the rest is trimmed to set the right angle. Rasping finishes the balance left to right, creates a flat surface plane on the hoof, and rounds off edges.

That being said, I think that it is probably not wise with older horses to focus solely on getting correct angles if it is putting stress on tendons. That kind of correction should be done before the age of 2 while growth is still occurring.

I do all of my trimming now and can be as particular as I want.


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## Knottymare (Feb 22, 2011)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> Good feet are extremely important to me as I compete over rough cross-country terrain that most big horses require special shoes to handle, and my boys are doing it barefoot.
> 
> Leia


That's awesome news! I am set for my farrier to trim Dolly for the first time this Saturday. He's always done a GREAT job on my big horses so I'm anxious to see what he will do with her little feet. My big mare was foundered when we got her and she is now barefoot and doing great. I do boot her for trail rides but do not keep her shod. She had terribly flat feet and very thin soles. Now, she fares very well barefoot except for rides on rocky ground. I have a line on a gal that does minis in my area that is supposed to be really good so if my regular guy doesn't pan out, I'll be switching.

I was wondering about those show trims... that's what got me started with this question. Thanks for all the input!


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## Jean_B (Feb 22, 2011)

I fired FOUR farriers after moving to Arkansas before I found one who was worth his weight in gold. One was such a jerk when I said he wasn't taking enough heel - that he was making the horse look as if she was club-footed (she definitely was NOT) that he jerked a leg on her HARD when she moved bit (and a couple days later she needed some steroid shots in the joint!). Told him to pack his tools and get his !*$^@ butt off my property. No, he didn't get paid. Heard that he had a big horse shatter one of his legs a few weeks later.....hmmmmmmm.......


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## mydaddysjag (Feb 23, 2011)

Take a peek at Domingos right front. Now, he is NOT club footed, this was my old farriers handy work. None of his feet look great, none of the angles match, and they are all different lengths.

Ignore my hat and the fact (it was an open show, that caters more towards stock horses) that we were showing on a sidewalk. We like to show at our local fair because I grew up showing 4h there. The night before they had a demolition derby, then it rained overnight. The arena couldnt be used because it was a mud pit.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2011)

Domingo's right front is how my friends stallion looked on all four hooves until she switched farriers. He looked like he had on high heels.

2010 was the year my farrier really earned his keep. Nine rescues from elf slippers to clubby upright feet - he did ALOT of corrective trimming on them.


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## Knottymare (Feb 24, 2011)

THAT is exactly what I am talking about! Thanks for the great example!

fingers crossed that my usual farrier doesn't bunk up my little horse's feet cuz he's always done such a great job on my big horses. Thankfully, Dolly has good feet to start with...


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