# Is "silver black" still the right color?



## secuono (Jan 24, 2015)

I found more pictures of mini Słodki.

These are same day born pics, 8hrs old, 4mo and then some older and from a few days ago. I'll add spring pictures when she sheds out.

Do you guys still think she is silver black, now that you can see what she looked like right after being born?

Mom is pictured, dad is the sorrel and flaxen.


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## chandab (Jan 25, 2015)

Still looks silver black. Sire looks silver bay (often mistaken for sorrel). The flymask picture really shows the silver black coloration, to me.


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## secuono (Jan 25, 2015)

Sorry, this one is her sire.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jan 25, 2015)

I agree with Chanda, your filly is definitely silver black and the sire looks to be a silver bay who's been mislabelled.


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## secuono (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks!

What makes them a silver bay and not sorrel w/flaxen? Is it all the white in the mane/tail?


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## chandab (Jan 25, 2015)

Maybe it's the pictures, the sire looks to have that silver/sooty look to his lower legs. Do you have any idea what he looks like shaved? Silver bays tend to clip out grey/silvery, whereas sorrels still clip red (well, some almost pink).

Here's my sorrel flaxen mare.



And, her neck clipped to show the color:


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## secuono (Jan 26, 2015)

No idea, but I can ask.


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## secuono (Jan 26, 2015)

Said his papers say he is sorrel, they don't clip him.

I believe they clip the others who go out into public, pull carts and do nursing home jobs. But stallions don't get those fun jobs.


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## chandab (Jan 27, 2015)

Silver bays are often mistaken for sorrels. The youngster is definitely a silver black and cute to boot.


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## paintponylvr (Jan 27, 2015)

I also believe your baby to be a silver black. Up in the air on her sire.

A silver bay is a black based horse (EE or Ee) with at least one bay gene (Aa) or two bay genes (AA) and one or two silver genes (nZ or ZZ). The silver gene only shows up on a black based horse. A "red" horse - also known as sorrel or chestnut - is red based (ee) and can carry a bay or silver gene (or two of each) but neither bay (agouti) nor silver show on a red based horse...

A bay gene (agouti) dilutes black everywhere but at the "points" of a horse (mane, tail, tips/edges of ears, around the eyes, muzzle, lower legs, sometimes the elbows & flanks). A silver gene dilutes or changes black - a black changes over the whole body and mane/tail change to flaxen and if a bay is carrying a silver gene - anywhere he has black will be a "silvery" color. To include a flaxen mane and tail and points.

Here is a great website talking about silver and the genetics of all colors (including some newer ones!) - Animal Genetics

and if you Google Silver Equine you can get both their website and their FB page... Our stallion used to be pictured on the website - but when it changed hands, he somehow got removed...

A silver black or silver bay can also carry spotting genes - as many of ours do.

Here are our two silver bays. Both are tobiano pintos - one pretty minimally & the other w/ quite a lot of white. Both have the same sire.

Flower has not been color tested and neither was her dam, Star. However her dam was out of a black Hackney mare and sired by a bay Arabian stallion so Star only carried 1 bay gene to make that beautiful "red" bay coloring and Flower only inherited 1 bay gene. She would have inherited a black gene from her sire (color tested) as well as the Tobiano and Silver genes. So, genetically - Flower looks like this - E?AaZnTt and here's Flower's photo album from birth... FLOWER Sorry, Flower's album in Picasa is only from about 8 months on... Here's the other album - the pics aren't in date order, not sure how to re-organize Photo Bucket. Every time I do, they get more "out of whack"... Flower - PB

Dandy has also not been color tested, however, both his parents were. He has the same sire as Flower. He will be homozygous for black, homozygous for Tobiano, 1 bay gene from his dam and 1 silver gene from his sire & genetically looks like this - EEAaZnTT and because his pinto white covers most of where he'd be a bay (have black points) - he looks like a chestnut and white paint!! Here's his photo gallery - DANDY

and then there is all those dapples and many, many shades!! No-one knows where those come from and why some silvers have them and others don't.


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## paintponylvr (Jan 27, 2015)

O, and when I start crossing Wizard on all of our Silver dapple mares - we will get all pintos! Some will carry the silver gene and be silver pintos. All foals will carry a bay gene, black based foals will exhibit (look) bay. Wizard is homozygous for both bay & tobiano. He is heterozygous for black (Ee), so when bred to heterozygous black mares - we could get a red based foal (won't look bay) BUT will carry and can pass on a bay gene.


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## paintponylvr (Jan 27, 2015)

here's a pic for you. 3 ponies carrying 1 silver gene each and one cremello carrying a bay gene.

Flower (unclipped, on the left) is a silver bay pinto. (*not tested - E?,Aa,nZ,tT*)

Kreature - looks "palomino" but is genetically tested as a silver buckskin (clipped, center in back) (*tested - Ee,Aa,nCR,nZ*)

KoKo - clipped center front - is silver black (*tested* - *Ee,aa,nZ*)

Kechi - front but at the far right - is a cremello carrying 1 bay gene. (*tested - ee,Aa,CrCr*)






Here are the same 4 - 1 1/2 months earlier. 3 silvers and 1 cremello carrying bay...


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