# Cart Design Question



## REDesign (Oct 25, 2012)

Hello,

I am purchasing my first cart and I have narrowed it down to two. Does anyone know which style of cart would be more comfortable for the horse?

Shafts that run underneath the seat like this:




Or shafts that are attached easy entry style like this:




I will basically be driving for pleasure with the hopes of eventually showing in some local open shows and possibly some CDEs.

Thank you for your help!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Hmm. Usually the shaft design where it attaches to the cart has a lot less to do with the horse's comfort than the overall balance and weight but I will say that when the shafts run beneath the seat like that they're often on top of the springs, smoothing the jolts to the shafts as well as the driver. On the other hand, carts designed like that are often heavy and cumbersome and have an awful lot of weight forward of the axle. They're also very difficult to get in and out of quickly and the shafts tend to ride only barely level or slightly downhill on most smaller horses whereas shafts that attach to the basket seem to connect lower and thus are easier to position slightly uphill for better ride and balance.

Just some thoughts!

Leia


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## DJF Miniature Show Horses (Oct 26, 2012)

I own the top step in cart. Mine is an Amish cart made by Pequea. It is light 90 lbs and very well balanced. Drives comfortably on dirt roads. Does not drive well in the arena is bouncy. Awesome cart but my gripe is the foot cage. The cart is fit for very short adults or children?

I removed the back rest so I could lean back a bit so Im not so cramped. Trying to sit on the folded down back rest is just nuts not to mention awful!

In the future I may go for the easy entry one in the second picture you have. That looks roomy. The craftsmanship on these carts are wonderful.

On my cart you cannot adjust the seat. In order to move the seat back would require me to drill new holes in the shafts. what worries me is I feel this would weaken the shafts??

Im 5'3 with a short torso and long legs. If that helps  Good luck it really is "your choice"...


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## REDesign (Oct 26, 2012)

Thank you for your responses. Both answers have been extremely helpful. I thought I had read somewhere that the shafts running over the springs was less jarring for the horse, so that is why I was interested in that style. However, I am 5'8 so having enough leg room is very important to me plus I don't want to feel trapped. I think I know which way I want to go now. Thanks!


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## Becky Horat (Oct 26, 2012)

I have the 2nd cart and bought it this last year from Pam of Silver Penney. She was and is so great to deal with. We still have leg room issues in that cart. I would talk w/ Pam and bring this up. There may be some things they can do to help. My husband has made a few changes and it's amazing what an inch here and there makes on leg room. We have several different carts, including the Mini Crown. This cart is one of our favorites as it is so light and well balanced for our horses on some big hills. The Mini Crown is very noticable in the weight difference on our 34" Minis when pulling up big hills. We have the 26" wooden wheels and LOVE it. We recently bought 26" wire wheels and the ride is "wonderful" on the bouncy, bumpy roads. The wire wheels are really stout...no flimsy. So we use both wheels. My husband painted the wire wheels black and although I was unsure of this, they look pretty neat against the wood. Nice carts....but be sure to ask about the leg room. They can block seats up a little higher. I was using a wedge and it helped as well, until we made some adjustments. Great cart!!


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## REDesign (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks for your help Becky. I will certainly talk to Pam. I like the looks of the Mini Crowns too, but my I don't think I'll be able to afford one anytime soon. :-(


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## Matthijs (Oct 26, 2012)

The style here does not determine how much legroom you have, you would need measurements to know wich one is bigger. The top one has the shafts mounted above the springs so yes more comfy for your horse, the bottom one the floor and shafts are directly sitting on the axle so more jarring for the horse.

I have an amish cart in the top style and I am 5,10" and find it absolutely big enough and well balanced, it is also very easy to move the axle if needed.

Mine does not have a backrest, just a wooden rim about 4" around the sides and back, I prefer that as it allows me to shift my position for balance.

I would go for the top one if given the choice






These carts are the best on roads but do fairly well even on trails and in fields, not so well in deep or loose footing with the narrow wheels.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 26, 2012)

It's only more jarring if you don't have it balanced right. Shafts that are properly floating, especially when used with a sliding backband, will not jar the horse no matter what the cart's suspension is.

Leia


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## Lloydyne (Oct 28, 2012)

I have the bottom cart also. I am 5'8" and there is not enough leg room. We are going to move the floor boards to underneath with spacers to gain about three inches. Should be an easy fix and it shouldn't add to much extra weight.


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## Becky Horat (Oct 28, 2012)

Lloydyne, we did just that with our cart. We switched the floorboards to underneath the square tubing frame. It was my husband's idea and I didn't think it would help that much. I was shocked how much it did. The other thing we did was flip the axle to the top of floor boards (if that makes sense)...to lower the cart some. We have the 26" wheels and it seemed so tall and top heavy to me. Especially when I was sitting on a wedge to help for height. We just did both of these things recently and was amazed at these little changes. I still have not used a wedge, but if I did need to for additional leg room, I don't think I'd feel so top heavy.


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## horsenarounnd (Oct 28, 2012)

We just bought a Fox Lane cart that we are very happy with. It has several features that meet our needs and much of what has been mentioned in this discussion. It has metal spoke wheels with solid rubber tires, good looking and sturdy, acceptable for any show, oncluding ADS and CDE's. The shafts adjust for the height of your horse by simply loosening 4 bolts and a simple movement of the shafts. We've easily adjusted it for our 34" and 38" horses in minutes. The shafts also telescope to adjust the length, about 8" adjustment. This is a one bolt adjustment per shaft. The shafts have a slight bend at the point they sit in the tugs, and when you loosen the bolt to adjust the length, you can also twist this bend in or out which adjusts the width of the shafts. This makes for a virtually infinite adjustment. the seat is also adjustable front and back, so you can balance the cart to have very little weight on your horse. It has "C" springs suspension, andhas two sets of springs, one under the seat and the other between the axle and frame making it one of the most comfortable carts we've ever driven. Our cart came with shiny vinyl fenders and dash, black with white pin stripes and is very suitable for show, but at the same time is sturdy enough for any driving in an arena or trail. Bob Franks was great to work with and I'd recommend this cart to anyone. We bought ours at the National Drive and met them there. We went to the Drive with intentions to research carts and talk to owners of some of the different brands. We looked a Hyperbike and a Bellcrown and bought the Fox Lane on the spot. Prices are great and quality is as good as anything I've seen.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 28, 2012)

Thank you for the excellent feedback on the Fox Lane cart, Horsenarounnd. That is one I haven't gotten to see yet! Do you have any pictures? What does it weigh compared to the Hyperbike or Bellcrown?

Leia


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## happy appy (Oct 28, 2012)

This is my Fox Lane cart.






and one with a mini






I don't have the second spring on yet or the brake. We have ordered them though.


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## REDesign (Oct 29, 2012)

Well, now I am confused as ever. I think I am going to change directions and just buy a metal easy entry to tool around in and save up for a nicer cart when I know which direction I want to go. Wow, those Fox Lane carts are handsome! I am also interested in the weight of those. Anyone know the starting price?


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## happy appy (Oct 29, 2012)

The starting price is $1450 and the weight is 128 lbs for the one that I got. I have the bells and whistles with wood.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 29, 2012)

Love that cart! I wonder what shipping would add to get it to this side of the continent. Time to start saving my pennies I think


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## happy appy (Oct 29, 2012)

Here is their website pictures. They have some here for viewing. They also have a 4 wheel cart that I would love to get too!

http://www.foxlanefarms.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=128036459

Great people to deal with. You can get the basic cart and then add on the extras when you can upgrade.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 29, 2012)

Hmm. Too heavy for my guys, I'm afraid. The Bellcrown is really too heavy for many things at 119 pounds.

Leia


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 29, 2012)

I have a 34" gelding that would do fine with that cart I think. He is a powerful guy and I don't think that weight would be a problem for him at all.


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## happy appy (Oct 29, 2012)

My 35 inch doesn't have a problem pulling it all over! We took it everywhere at the horse park.


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## horsenarounnd (Oct 29, 2012)

I drove our cart all over the National Drive with our 34" gelding, and while I don't really want to say how much I weigh, he was pulling close to 400 pounds with no problem.


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## Rhondaalaska (Oct 29, 2012)

What would be a good cart design for a 36 inch mini on a dirt road with a lot of hills?


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## horsenarounnd (Oct 29, 2012)

I would suggest what ever style Fox Lane you like, get the double "C" springs and add optional brakes.


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## Matthijs (Oct 30, 2012)

Rhondaalaska,

Hyperbike would be my pref if there are lots of hills around. Extremely well made at its price point. It also provides tremendous comfort for the horse as well as the driver. No brakes needed, maybe a spares bag or a seat cover with pockets for your lunch, or just a vest with big pockets. Wider then any other cart and therefore well suited for trail use. No need for extra springs the whole frame is like a giant shock absorber makes for a nice smooth ride combined with its low weight is unbeatable for just about any terrain. Not a two seater but that is just another perfect excuse to not drive all the neighborhoods kids around the block






Remember not even de Pacific smart cart is intended for two adults and that is likely the most solid easy entry but weighs more at 120 pounds so you need to get your horse in good physical condition to do the hills.


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## rbrown (Oct 30, 2012)

I agree with Matthijs. I was thinking of getting a Fox Lane Cart (I started a thread on it a few months ago here) and decided to get a Hyperbike instead. I LOVE it! We have a lot of hills on the trails here, and the Bike is perfect. It's nice and light so my horses don't struggle to get up and down the hills anymore, and I don't worry about tipping over if we're driving sideways on a steep hill



The Fox Lane cart (and Smart Cart, etc) is lovely but wouldn't have worked as well as the Hyperbike for the driving I'm doing. However, it probably would've been just fine for driving at my old barn (nice and flat and level pastures, and stone dust arena).


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 30, 2012)

As I understand it tho a hyperbike is not recommended for inexperienced horses, right? If I had the money I would have one of each. The hyperbike for trail driving and the heavier cart for ring work and youngsters. Since in my case I will have to choose the cart seems a better choice while my green horses learn the job. In a few years I might be able to justify the bike. Also for those of us who are not as flexible/coordinated as we'd like to be, getting into the bike could be a challenge.


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## rbrown (Oct 30, 2012)

As far as getting in an out, I find the Bike easier than my road cart. Granted, I'm only in my 20s- but the lady who sometimes drives Skip with the Bike also has no problem getting in and out. She's a bit older than me and claims to be much less flexible than me. She also says the seat is wonderful for her achy back! Not sure about using the Bike with inexperienced horses, since both of mine have been driving for awhile. I just know that your horse needs to be able to stand still for you to get in and out.


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## Matthijs (Oct 31, 2012)

As long as your horse is willing to stand while you get in and out, and it has no tendency to kick or buck you should be okay. How much driving has your horse done?

If your horse is really green you can always start with one of those Chinese imports for $500.= use it for a year and then get yourself a HB.

Matthijs.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm not sure if you are addressing rhondaalaska or me but as for my horse(s) I have one very solid and experienced mare (which my husband seems to have taken over lol) and several green horses. One came to me supposedly trained and I have only driven him very lightly a couple of times but he does give me the impression he might buck in harness (begins tossing his head at the trot) He needs more work to be considered trained in my book altho he is started. Then I have a 28" 4 yr old filly that I started this year and then put some real miles on (I think she would benefit from a bike since she is so small any extra weight is an issue) and a 34" gelding that could handle the heavier carts with ease. He was driven for the first time the year and needs some time between the shafts before I would think him solid enough to be that close to the driver (as he'd be in a bike) At present I have an inexpensive EE and it is great for starting them - partly because there is less to loose if it should be damaged. In the next year or so I would like to look at a better cart for showing and for pleasure/recreational driving, by then I expect it will be safe to move them all up to the better vehicle.


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## studiowvw (Oct 31, 2012)

icky icky icky... on the junky imports!!!

EDIT: Deleted my rant about the last junky import I bought, 1.5 years ago, hee hee!

I could have accepted most of the failure of quality, but when I found there was CELLOPHANE TAPE lining the inside surface of the wheels, I nearly barfed





How much money does a strip of rubber cost?

Get the message to the manufacturers and product sellers and don't buy junk.

Wilma (still cranky about wasting my money on a piece of junk 1.5 years ago



)


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 31, 2012)

Holey smokes, celophane? While the EE I have is not the quality I would like to own it is no where near that bad. Maybe its not an import? Don't know where it was made but it has stood up to some pretty rigorous usage to date and I have had it for 3 years or more now. I have other carts, one is an older show cart that needs refurbishing to be a 'show cart' but works well for recreational driving, I just prefer the EE for starting horses. Like I said, less invested if they should be damaged by a green horse in some way.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 31, 2012)

Matthijs said:


> As long as your horse is willing to stand while you get in and out, and it has no tendency to kick or buck you should be okay. How much driving has your horse done?


I don't think kicking or bucking has anything to do with it. Both my high-spirited boys do it regularly no matter what cart they're in, and a kicking strap does the job nicely whether it's the 'Bike or the EE or the show cart!



When they try in the Hyperbike I just reach out and thump them on the rear as well as the more traditional growling and pulling their heads up.





What your horse does need to have is a solid "whoa." Getting in and out of the Hyperbike is not difficult but there is definitely a period of time where you're at risk as you step in front of the wheel and stirrup to put your leg over and if the horse should move off unexpectedly the way green horses so often do it would be very unpleasant. The other reason I prefer to start those wiggly babies in a more traditional cart is frankly because once they drive a Hyperbike, they never want to go back. No, seriously!



This isn't me advertising. I found with Kody when I moved him to a Freedom Collar, sliding backband and Hyperbike he started complaining when I put him back in more traditional stuff and it occurred to me that if I'd started him in those, Mr. Fairness and Why-Mama would have thought it hugely unfair to suddenly put him in restrictive, uncomfortable equipment. I want them to know what traditional equipment like a straight breastcollar, blinkers and heavier cart feel like and accept it as the norm. Then later when I move them to the high performance stuff they're excited about it but don't complain about the regular equipment. I did that with Turbo and was very glad for it. I used the Hyperbike as a mobile set of training shafts but when it came time to get in, I hitched him to the show cart and there he stayed until he was mature enough to handle the Hyperbike.

Generally being close to the driver is actually reassuring for the youngsters, it comforts them rather than making them nervous. They like that you can pet them on the butt or press your leg on their sides!

Leia


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Oct 31, 2012)

Hmmm, interesting thoughts Leia. I like the little extra weight the traditional carts have when starting horses and I suspect it is a bonus when one is trying to get the horse fit but then switching to the lighter 'bike' or even a featherlight cart would be very freeing to the horse thus improving performance I would expect. I am just surmising of course since I have no lighter weight cart to switch too. I really like the idea of the bike tho, has anyone shown in one? I am not sure they would be well received in standard driving classes where 'turn out' is king and even wearing a helmet might loose you marks against someone wearing a nice hat (that of course won't keep me from wearing the helmet because my ability to tie my own shoes trumps winning a class). The best part of this time of year is that I can step back and start to think about next season and what I should/would like to change.





Now on that note I'd like to offer an apology to the OP for hijacking her thread.


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## rbrown (Oct 31, 2012)

I know there is a lady who has used hers for a 2-phase (think it was here in Massachusetts), where people were pretty dressed up. I'm not sure how well-received it was, or if she lost points for having a very non-traditional cart, though. I've only done very informal/casual shows with mine, but I am hoping I can use it for some of the more serious shows next summer.


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## REDesign (Nov 1, 2012)

Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> Now on that note I'd like to offer an apology to the OP for hijacking her thread.


No probs! I enjoy reading the differing viewpoint on carts and the hyperbike. Carry on!


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## Shari (Nov 6, 2012)

happy appy said:


> This is my Fox Lane cart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is really, really cute!!!


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## happy appy (Nov 6, 2012)

Thank you! Sugar has only been in cart since June this year but she is amazing


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## susanne (Nov 8, 2012)

I adore the HyperBike. I am a total gimpy, with serious back and leg problems, but I have no problem getting in and out and find riding in it the most comfortable thing next to lying in my bed.

However, I do believe that, at least for most people, the HyperBike is less suitable for a green horse. The solid whoa is one issue (although any horse should have one before being hitched), but I'd prefer to see a few miles on the horse to know how it reacts to different situations. I've seen one very green horse who had been fine in the EE come unglued in the HyperBike. Not the HB's fault in any way, but more time in the EE would likely have revealed her issues with less trauma to the driver.

The only other reason I would not choose a HyperBike is if you'll want to carry a passenger.

For solo trail driving with a solid driving horse, the HyperBike is absolutely unbeatable. I've driven for hours in it without getting the least bit stiff. My horse absolutely adores it. When hauling to trails, the HB breaks down small enough to fit in a small car and then sets up in a flash.

On a limited budget, I think I'd look for a used Frontier or CTM easy entry and put the real money toward the HyperBike. On a midsized budget, I'd consider the HyperBike and a Foxlane. Since I have tall minis, if money were not an issue, I'd likely choose the HyperBike and a Smart Cart.


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