# Team Harness Questions



## mgranch (Jan 25, 2010)

I finally found my team pole for my Frontier cart (Thanks Margo)!! and am now on to the process of finding my team harness. I lost my job last year ( I know so did everyone)!! so money is an issue. Hubby and I have single harnesses now that were bought used and are just the light pleasure type. We have since then joined a driving club of mostly bigs and the driving is steep and sometimes rough so our light harnesses aren't really suitable anymore. We are needing to find harnesses with either Freedom Collar style breast collars or we really like the idea of collars and hames. Anyhoo!! What I am wondering is it possible to get a team harness with either of these styles of collars that can be used as both singles and as a team harness?? You can see what my thought is here kill two birds with one stone and have all the harnesses we need plus save $$$$!!! If it matters horses are both around 34". Any ideas out there???

Thanks!!

Gina


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## RhineStone (Jan 25, 2010)

Welcome to the forum!






Ok, to preface this post, it is not to discourage or irritate you, but one of my mottos is, "When you know better, you do better."

Yes, it is possible to get extra parts to make both single and pair harnesses. It might be complicated, though. Your driving club, even with mostly big horse drivers, might be able to help you with this process. It really shouldn't be any different for big horses than small ones. The harness is exactly the same in many instances. (Although, there are many different styles of pair harnesses as well.)

That being said, there have been threads or comments on this forum that have dealt with putting a pair to a cart, but I can't find them right now. Generally in the carriage horse community, it is not acceptable to do so, because it is not really safe. I know that I have said this before, but historically there were only two carts that were used for a pair, the Cape Cart and the Curricle Cart. They had a special contraption that mounted over the horse's necks that helped to balance the cart. Traditional pair harnesses do not have this contraption. It is EXTREMELY easy to dump a cart that is being pulled by a pair, especially on steep, rough ground.

I know there are some experienced people on this forum that have said that they will put a pair to a cart for a brief period of time, and make very gradual turns. You really need to know what you are getting into before you put a pair to a cart. Actually, American Driving Society will not allow it in their CDEs, and considering that ADS is EXTREMELY concerned with safety, if there are rules against it, I definitely think it's a bad idea.

Having a pair is great fun, but get a four-wheeler. It won't be any fun if the cart is laying on it's side.



Not to mention, it looks bad in front of the big horse drivers who wouldn't think of doing such a thing.


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## mgranch (Jan 25, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mgranch (Jan 25, 2010)

Nope, not a new member have been on here for years. Just stopped talking when people kept ignoring my question and went off on a soap[ box telling me I was going to get killed. So, we drive everything from Drafts to Minis and I will tell you I doubt a horse the size of my dog will get me killed BUT you know I know nothing!!! Just wanted to know where I could get such a harness if any!! BUT, never mind I will just go away again!!! Really, you need to stop assuming you know everyones driving level and just answer their questions!!! You don't know me and Yes dear I am aware of ADS rules as the PRESIDENT of a large driving club of DRAFT HORSES!! Just needed info on places to purchase mini harnesses!! MY MISTAKEEEE!!! I don't recall asking about my vehichle!!!! Nor do I need your opinion!!! If I did need it I would have asked!! Thanks anyways!!!


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## Peggy Porter (Jan 26, 2010)

Check out http://www.ronshorseharness.com/products/P...-And-Hames.html

I don't have a harness from them, but have heard some good things. Do a search on this or the other Lil bEginnings forums and you should get some good info. The price is certainly reasonable. The collars do not appear to open, which could pose an issue for a horse with a broad forehead. You can always email and ask about pairs-to-singles conversion kits also.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 26, 2010)

mgranch said:


> Nope, not a new member have been on here for years. Just stopped talking when people kept ignoring my question and went off on a soap[ box telling me I was going to get killed. So, we drive everything from Drafts to Minis and I will tell you I doubt a horse the size of my dog will get me killed BUT you know I know nothing!!! Just wanted to know where I could get such a harness if any!! BUT, never mind I will just go away again!!! Really, you need to stop assuming you know everyones driving level and just answer their questions!!! You don't know me and Yes dear I am aware of ADS rules as the PRESIDENT of a large driving club of DRAFT HORSES!! Just needed info on places to purchase mini harnesses!! MY MISTAKEEEE!!! I don't recall asking about my vehichle!!!! Nor do I need your opinion!!! If I did need it I would have asked!! Thanks anyways!!!






Gina, she DID answer your question. Yes, it is possible to get a conversion kit. She also brought up a perfectly valid point in a polite and diffident manner. Based on your statement that you had just found a driving club and were moving up from beginner harness to something more suitable and putting your first (mini) pair together to your first pair vehicle, it was a reasonable assumption that you might be new to pairs. At least you got replies to this thread; the rest of us may hesitate to respond to any in the future when that is the reception a well-meant comment receives.





Since you drive drafts you presumable are familiar with the various options for a collar and hames so I won't bore you with discussion of those even though you asked.



They are good for pulling a lot of weight but a Frontier with pole arrangement is not going to balance like a draft forecart and may put a lot of weight on their necks via the collars, especially going downhill. Collars may not stay in place against that pressure unless carefully secured and could sore the horse over fast-paced drives if not padded and well-fitted. They are meant for agricultural work and that needs to be taken into account when using them for a different style of driving. Also, as you pointed out our horses are the size of dogs and do not have the wonderful broad shoulders of their larger cousins.

Freedom Collars are proprietary and can only be purchased through Camptown Harness or Chimacum Tack. They are not going to be cheap.

Yes, you can buy a pairs harness and convert it to single or visa versa. If you do not already have a FC then I'd suggest buying a set of pair FC's as you can use them for single driving just by ignoring the extra rings. The reverse is not true.

The rest of the harness is up to you.

I do have more specific suggestions if that wouldn't be considered "getting on my soapbox."





Leia


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## MiLo Minis (Jan 26, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> At least you got replies to this thread; the rest of us may hesitate to respond to any in the future when that is the reception a well-meant comment receives.
> 
> 
> 
> Leia


YUP!!!


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## mgranch (Jan 26, 2010)

Sorry guys you are right that was uncalled for from me and I apologize for my rudeness!! Sorry RhineStone you didn't deserve that!! I know you were trying to help and I appreciate it!! I'm sorry you guys I guess it may be me that doesn't communicate with others very well. Yes, I can hear you all laughing and saying to yourselves You Think???!!!! Anyway, I typed the original question and the not so nice response quickly while having two screaming Grandbabies hanging off my leg and I have been researching and trying to find a solution but with little quiet computer time available I had hoped one of you would just have the perfect answer and I would be done!! Not an excuse for my bad behavior just trying to explain. I guess I didn't explain myself well. We have been driving for years and been part of our driving club for years just this year taking the President position. We still have the same harnesses we started with because we just never seem to have enough money to replace them. We even drive our big girl in a light harness I got for $50 from a club member and though I don't like it and want nicer appropriate harnesses there is just never enough money. Anyway, I know pairs should have 4-wheeled vehicles and I would kill to own one but its not likely to ever happen. The club we are part of is very cool in the fact that it has all levels of drivers and all levels of income and so we have top notch drivers with fancy shire's and $50,000 worth of carriages down to homemade EE carts and harnesses held together with baling twine. The thing is not everyone has the means to have the gear they need and want but they make whatever they have work and just have fun. I think that's cool cause I'm always wishing I had nicer things instead of just appreciating what I do have!! Anyway, my apologzes again!!! I have got to get some rest and time away from these babies maybe I won't be such a Witch!!!


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## mgranch (Jan 26, 2010)

OOPS one more thing!! Yes Leia we do drive drafts but they are owned by others in the club. We have 4 minis, one pony and one 15 hand QH mare we drive. We don't own any drafts personally nor do we own real nice carts and harnesses. Heck we have a big horse cart borrowed from a club member we don't even own our own horse cart!! And yes though we spend alot of time around bigger horse teams and such I really can't relate what the biggies use to what would be best for the minis. Like you said about the collars (no I hadn't thought they would not balance well and slide so thanks thats what I am looking for) I am not able to get much help from our club as we have some of the only minis and the bigs just kinda think we are cute and amusing but don't take us really serious as REAL driving horses. Plus, they don't know beans about minis so that's why I am here to talk to others that know minis!! I am concerned that pole is going to bounce and put weight on their necks. I know with the bigs they just go like heck clanging and banging and it all seems fine but thats not what I want for my little guys!!So, yes Leia a discussion on collars would be very appreciated!! I see how they function on bigs but am clueless on how they may impact minis. Also, remember I am a very tired Granma talk slow and be very detailed!!! LOL What is an FC?? A Freedom Collar?? They make them for pairs?? I looked yesterday and didn't see them available for pairs?? I have lusted after Freedom Collars for years but WOW!!! They are expensive!! Course if they would help my single driving problem and pairs driving in just that one purchase that may be the ticket!!! I do have a call into Ron's Harness also so thanks he may have some good ideas that are more affordable. I have looked at conversion kits but they are a couple hundred bucks generally and our single harnesses are very different and I am afraid they won't look very good together but that may be the cheapest way to go for now. Anyway, lots to think about!!! Thanks for the wonderful help!!


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## RhineStone (Jan 26, 2010)

mgranch said:


> I finally found my team pole for my Frontier cart (Thanks Margo)!! and am now on to the process of finding my team harness. We have since then joined a driving club of mostly bigs and the driving is steep and sometimes rough so our light harnesses aren't really suitable anymore. Thanks!!
> 
> Gina





mgranch said:


> Nope, not a new member have been on here for years. Just stopped talking when *people kept ignoring my question and went off on a soap[ box telling me I was going to get killed*.
> Well, I can tell you why...
> 
> 
> ...



For anyone else, putting a pair to a cart is still a bad idea. It seems to be a more common idea amongst mini drivers, though. We have a friend that has a mini Meadowbrook that came with both shafts and a pair pole. She has not used the pole, but uses the cart to drive a single for shows. She has realized that there is such a negative connotation amongst judges about even having that set up, that she is looking to replace the cross bar on the cart so that the pole attachments are not there anymore. Then, maybe the judges won't look at her funny and will place her higher in Turnout. Yup, industry wide, it is well-known that it is not a good idea, for bigs or littles.


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## RhineStone (Jan 26, 2010)

I added my reply before I saw Gina's. We must have been typing at the same time.

Gina, thank you for your apology. I hope that Leia can help you with your collar question, she has more experience in the pairs dept. than I do. Good luck, and just be very careful in your set up.


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## mgranch (Jan 26, 2010)

You are welcome RhineStone I was totally out of line and I am ashamed of myself!! Yep, I see now where I did type we joined the club since finding the team pole!!! OOPS!!! Sorry like I said can't concentrate got a baby crying and hanging on me now too so hope I don't say something dumb again!! No we have been in the club for years just found a team pole and heck I don't even have it yet because hubby's little dog got sick and it took $800 to pay the vet!! So, Margo is waiting til Feb for full payment. I agree putting pairs to cart is not the best choice but like I said in our club we have pairs of everything hitched to two wheeled carts and though not perfect it does work if one can't afford anything else!! Anyway, thanks again!! And no I'm not trying to get myself or anyone else hurt, I am not encouraging others to do this. Its just what I have to work with and really I will make things as safe as possible for me and my guys!!!


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