# guard animals



## bevann (Jul 4, 2011)

We may be getting some Mini sheep mature about 24"or less We have had 1 stray coyote this past winter and he is back.Do Mini donks do well with sheep?can they hurt newcomerw to the flock?Can you have just 1?Don't want anything to get the lambs next spring.Anybody with experience out there?Coyotes are not prevalant just a few introduced by DNREC on the Q T a few years back to control white tail deer.


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## wildoak (Jul 4, 2011)

Some friends just got regular sheep, and a llama to protect them.

Jan


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## Miniv (Jul 4, 2011)

We have three llamas in the field farthest from our house/barn area.......Last year I witnessed the the oldest of them (all are female) charge a lone coyote and drive it out onto the road.

We also have one female mini donkey. Just yesterday a visiting dog on the property got too close to her and she literally went after and stomped on the poor dog. (The dog was just got too close and was not a threat.) But it sure showed me that a donkey may be a good guard animal.

Oh, the dog got away quickly and wasn't seriously injured.


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## drmatthewtaylor (Jul 4, 2011)

Llamas, alpacas, and donkeys all do well with sheep. But, be a little cautious as not every llama, alpaca, or donkey will actually guard.

Dr Taylor


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## Riverrose28 (Jul 4, 2011)

Bevanne, I can sympathise, we had coyotes reintroduced here a couple of years back. I haven't seen any yet, but the cattle farmer across the road had to shot three that tried to get his calves. I thought of getting a mini donkey, but I heard that they except some as their herd and not all. I have a tendency to switch horses around alot. We used to have sheep, but they weren't protective of anything but themselves.


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## Helicopter (Jul 4, 2011)

And it's not reasonable to expect a lone alpaca, llama or donkey to do the job alone. You need more than one.

Just be careful when introducing any new animal into a paddock with a donkey.........mine would have killed a calf if I hadn't intervened before they caught her. They soon got used to her. I would never let my dogs into the paddocks with the donkeys. They'd kill him for sure because they have never been properly introduced




(you know what I mean).

I've often wondered if there were any such thing as miniature sheep. I have one sheep who I absolutely adore.......personality plus........but she is so *BIG *and *STRONG*. I'd love a miniature. Bet there aren't any over here.

By the way my sheep hangs with the donkeys most of the time in preference to the horses.


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## Helicopter (Jul 4, 2011)

Llamas, alpacas and donkeys would need to be BONDED with the sheep before they could be expected to protect them.


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## bevann (Jul 4, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies.We are going on Tuesday to look at sheep.Miniature babydoll Southdowns are 24 inches or less so really not that small.Will ask the breeder what he uses to control predators.Don't want to get something that can harm them.We have several Cheviots now and so far no problems.


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## Paradise Ponies (Jul 4, 2011)

We have large numbers of coyotes roaming around where I live, and because we live at the border of a wildlife refuge, they can hide out there and not get hunted. I have very unconventional guard animals for my goats.

My wolf hybrids.

They howl every night and let the coyotes know that this turf belongs to them, and the coyotes stay very far away. The Western-Pacific wolves are the #1 enemy to coyotes (they don't interbreed with them like the Eastern wolves do).

Their scent and their howl keep all predators in the area off our farm. Not so for the other farmers around, who are constantly losing their livestock to the coyotes and bears.

Not all wolfdogs are created equal! Most people who breed and raise them treat them like wild animals, and this makes them very unsafe for anything other then being a kennel ornament. This of course is not fair to the animal. They want to be part of the family too.

When raised with livestock and properly trained and bred, wolf hybrids make awesome guardians for livestock.


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## bevann (Jul 5, 2011)

I saw a web site where they sell all kind so of animal urine liquid and pellets.I think I may try Bear or Mountain lion or Wolf.That should give the coyote something to worry about.Might be easier than another animal to care for and it definitely won't hurt the sheep..


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## Shari (Jul 5, 2011)

Unless said Donkey has been raised with the small animals, like the ones you want to keep.

I won't recommend it.

Donkey's have a habit of stomping animals smaller than themselves. Mine loved to chase the chickens.... or anything smaller than her, and most do.

Also won't recommend a mini Donkey for guard duty.... their bray isn't going to chase predators away, they will just get attacked and or eaten.

Mine was attacked and I din't even have her for a guard animal. Cost me a big Vet bill. And the reason we built the night pasture.

I have known Standard and Mammoth donkeys that were killed by cougars and bears, while trying to protect their flocks.

Llama's and Alpaca's, depends on the animal... some will guard well.. others like to stomp or kill your smaller stock.. or not guard at all. It is very hit and miss.

With the Alpaca's on the smaller side, like mini Donkeys, is more like they will just get eaten.

I would highly, highly recommend a good fence as your first defense. Most folks here have seen photos of what I call the Night pasture. And it has kept large Black Bears and cougars out.


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## Helicopter (Jul 8, 2011)

Noticed my donkeys in hot pursuit of a fox a couple of days ago. They didn't get him because he went under a fence and they couldn't.................. but they did try. Go donkeys !!


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## ohmt (Jul 8, 2011)

We have a pair of new england baby doll sheep and they are in the pasture with my mares and large donkey (pony sized)-he was orphaned at a month old and we took him in. The mares raised him and he has to be with them at all times or he brays for them. We have not had coyote or even raccoon problems since he learned to bray! It's pretty neat watching him herd the mares up when a storm is coming. I would not trust just any donkey with my girls though-this one is special


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## Helicopter (Jul 9, 2011)

My 4 donkeys live with my ever increasing herd of ponies and have done for 7 years. They get along just fine. I often see the donks having poilite conversations over the fence with the Standard Breds next door.


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Jul 16, 2011)

bevann said:


> I saw a web site where they sell all kind so of animal urine liquid and pellets.I think I may try Bear or Mountain lion or Wolf.That should give the coyote something to worry about.Might be easier than another animal to care for and it definitely won't hurt the sheep..




Bev,

Wouldnt the emell of the urine scare the sheep?

Robin


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## ~Dan (Jul 17, 2011)

Hi Beevan.

I would not recommend using llamas or alpacas as guards. They have no natural defense (such as hooves or sharp teeth) so if confronted with a pack of dogs or coyotes, you will most likely have a dead llama, and probably some dead sheep as well. We lost at least one llama just grazing in the field at the llama ranch where I work when he was attacked by a feral, starving dog pack. The most a llama or alpaca could do to dog or coyote would be to spit it off or to attempt to trample it... IMHO, you might as well use a water pistol.

However, try a guard yak for your herd! Some people have used them to successfully guard hundreds of sheep from wolves. When raised from calves with herd, like dogs, they will learn to protect the herd. If I were a predator, even a hungry one, I would think twice before entering a pasture protected by a several hundred pound animal with sharp horns and hooves. But, if treated kindly and respectfully, they can make quite gentle companions and can be easy to handle.

This is the ranch who started using yak to guard their sheep, I hope I can post this! Gaurd Yak.

Dan.


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## Magic (Jul 17, 2011)

These are all great ideas, but I still believe that Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGDs) are the best protection. Even the site that Dan posted says so, even though they've had good luck with their yaks, they say that for anything more than coyotes or domestic dogs (and I think that a pack of domestic dogs can be far more lethal to small livestock than coyotes) that they recommend LGDs. When faced with a predator, only another predator is going to have a real chance imo. The predator we're most concerned with here is mountain lions, lots of them in these mountains. A mountain lion can take down a full size horse, so they'd have no trouble killing a mini horse. But, with two LGDs on patrol I don't think that even a desperate mountain lion would try it. Wolves are beginning to show up in the immediate area as well, though thankfully they are loners (so far). A wolf isn't going to risk their life fighting two LGDs on the off chance that they will win without significant injury and be able to go on to kill and eat; they'll move on to easier prey. First line of defense though-- a good fence! Then decide what your situation is and what you need from there.


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