# Could I get some opinions please



## Taz (Mar 6, 2021)

I have a mare who had/has a very slight chance of being in foal for mid April/early May. She was bred (by my newly gelded experienced older stud) for 3 days in mid May. She had a bit of clear fluid from her teats for a year before since being weaned. As far as I know that is pretty normal. 3 days after he stopped breeding her(she was still in standing heat for 2 days and he wasn't interested) she dried up completely and didn't come back into season again. I've been checking her and haven't felt or seen anything, no changes in her udder and have decided not but am still checking on and off. This morning I got a handful of fluid. Covered my palm, dripping between my fingers on one 'pull'. Is that just spring or am I back to maybe? Also everyone is on reduced hay this time of year and her winter hay belly hasn't gone away like I thought it would but she is a really easy keeper. Ideas??????????


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Mar 6, 2021)

So she never came back into season? How far after gelding did this happen? Normal hormones can definitely cause fluid. Sounds like you have either a maybe or possibly a false pregnancy. I’d get a vet check to be sure.


----------



## Taz (Mar 6, 2021)

It was 6 weeks after gelding. I thought there was no chance but asked two vets later and they both said 'Could be, you'll know in the spring.' I have a few good vets here but none who want to ultrasound with the little ones.


----------



## Dragon Hill (Mar 6, 2021)

Sperm can live longer than that in storage (epididymis), but I'm not sure how long it lives once it's in the pipeline (vas deferens). This is where your chance of pregnancy comes from.


----------



## Maryann at MiniV (Mar 6, 2021)

She could be. I'd check her about once a week to see if her bag is developing and if the liquid is changing consistency.


----------



## Taz (Mar 6, 2021)

Dragon Hill said:


> Sperm can live longer than that in storage (epididymis), but I'm not sure how long it lives once it's in the pipeline (vas deferens). This is where your chance of pregnancy comes from.


They're tough little buggers! I did some research after all this and found a couple places where they said sperm could be viable up to 3 months with an experienced older stud, later confirmed by two vets. So much for the 2 weeks I was always told, hahaha.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Mar 11, 2021)

What are you thinking Taz ? Are you leaning towards a yes or No ?


----------



## Taz (Mar 12, 2021)

I'm solidly at absolutely no clue. I might have felt something very faint if I squint my eyes and look at it sideways, or it could just be wishful thinking. I need another like a hole in the head but I would LOVE to have another baby this year. I have to take my phone out and get some pics of her belly, I keep thinking it's gotten bigger this week even though she's not getting more to eat, could just be me slowly going nuts . She showed almost nothing with her foal 3 years ago and I only felt something occasionally. I don't have a camera up for her but will probably give in and do that soon just in case and so I can check whenever I wake up but I'm not planning on doing 2 hour checks unless she gives me something. She hasn't come into season yet this spring like everyone else.


----------



## Pitter Patter (Mar 12, 2021)

Taz said:


> It was 6 weeks after gelding. I thought there was no chance but asked two vets later and they both said 'Could be, you'll know in the spring.' I have a few good vets here but none who want to ultrasound with the little ones.


Why don't vets like to use ultrasound? I'm beginning to think they just don't have the machines! Ugh!


----------



## Dragon Hill (Mar 12, 2021)

Traditional ultrasound requires the vet inserting the probe into the rectum fairly deep by hand. On a larger mare this isn't usually dangerous, but with minis it can be.


----------



## Taz (Mar 12, 2021)

I've thought about trying to get an external ultrasound but the only person I know who's had that done had it miss the foal twice at 2 months and 1 1/2 months to go. Doesn't fill me with confidence.


----------



## Maryann at MiniV (Mar 12, 2021)

I don't trust external ultrasounds AT ALL. Traditional ultrasounds are only good when a vet knows what he or she is doing. (When a vet doesn't want to do one and has the machine, it's probably because they don't want to admit they DON'T know how to do one very well.) When a mare is very early pregnant it's hard to locate the fetus, but a knowledgeable vet will recognize a "pregnant uterus". And when the mare is in the last part of her third trimester, the foal often has "dropped", so is difficult to see. The BEST time to do an ultrasound is during the MIDDLE trimester. When we lived in Bend, OR our vet there taught us a lot of stuff so we wouldn't need him so much....(weird, eh?) He even was teaching me how to do ultrasounds on our mares.......mostly because he thought he could sell his old machine to us (which we couldn't afford.) BUT, I learned A LOT. 
Now? Over the years we've learned what to look for to identify a pregnancy. Much of it is subtle stuff. And at about 6 months gestation we start touching at feeding time. And of course it's how they are carrying during the last trimester....plus their bag development. BTW. I HATE maiden mares because it's all a blank slate, a total unknown. 

TAZ! Take pictures of your mare from different angles ONCE A WEEK and start comparing, including her bag. You won't notice the subtle changes daily until the final week or so.


----------



## Taz (Mar 12, 2021)

Planning on taking pictures when I can remember to take my phone out, it's not surgically attached to me . The pregnancy she had 3 years ago (an experienced mom before I got her) didn't show AT ALL until 3 weeks before she foaled when her belly was huge overnight, never a change in her back end and only a very small bag, no milk for the first 3-4 hours. If she was 'normal' and helpful I'd know whether she is or not by now. Such is the way things work around here, Haha.


----------



## Pitter Patter (Mar 20, 2021)

So what are you thinking now, Taz? Is she with foal?


----------



## Taz (Mar 20, 2021)

I'm closer to being hopeful that she is. Still haven't felt anything but she has some changes going on with her udder. I'm putting up a camera as soon as I have a chance to watch her in case. I don't even know if she really is but the bad baby dreams have already started and I need to be able to check her at night to make sure everything is fine.


----------



## Taz (Mar 20, 2021)

So the last two days her 'udder' has had a bit more fill( not really a bag yet) and the fat in front of it has been moving back so I guess some of it is edema. Tonight she had a bit more instead of it going down through the day and less in front. She didn't have much of an udder last time so I got out the pool strips just to check since I don't have a camera up yet and sort of panic. The results were 9, or as I thought about it, 'you idiot, are you sure you think she's in foal?' OMG, the craziness has started already and she might not even be in foal.


----------



## Taz (Mar 23, 2021)

The camera's up and not working well in that stall of course. I spent the night watching the half of her stall she mostly wasn't hanging out in. Researched and ordered one that should give me a better view. Her udder (well no bag so full teats?) is a bit more each day. She had cloudy and very slightly yellow fluid today, not sticky. I'm hoping that's a positive sign that she's in foal and hiding it well and not of something else. If she's in foal she's at 311 days. Time will tell.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Mar 23, 2021)

Heres hoping Taz


----------



## Taz (Mar 31, 2021)

Baby gurus, please tell me one of you has a crystal ball and will take pity on me? I'm going back and forth a few times a day on whether she's in foal or not. She doesn't look it at all. No baby belly but didn't have one last time until 3 weeks before. Her teats are filling a bit, going down some days, some days one goes down, back up by morning, increasing a tiny bit some mornings. Had a very small udder last time just before foaling. I've felt lots of breathing and digestion, maybe a couple of kicks but VERY slight. At night she swishes her tail quietly now and then with the odd nose to belly bump or soft cow kick. She's been trying to sleep on her chest not wanting to role onto her side. Her last foal was 11 days before her breed date which is May 16 this time. I'm leaning towards yes but it could just be wishful thing. I'm sure you'll say 'could be, keep watching her' but this going crazy person would love to hear what your thinking.


----------



## Taz (Mar 31, 2021)

Oh, one thing I've been wondering. If she is in foal does the foal being really quiet mean anything health wise for it?


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Mar 31, 2021)

I read at several places that some foal are very quiet... and that they get even quieter as space gets tighter.
Your description of her udder sounds a bit like what my mare was going through the last few weeks (the last month). I did not have time to update Flicka's thread since last time, but she is now seriously building up an udder and she's less than a month away from her due date. From what I've been reading, it's normal for the bag to be fuller in mornings and then less full in the evenings. As the time gets very close to her due date, the bag will stay full day and night.

But otherwise, I don't know. The best way to be sure would be an ultrasound, but I know that sometimes it's hard to find a vet who will do minis... 

I do hope that things will turn out for the good for you and your mare...


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Mar 31, 2021)

I just read the part of your post where you say about your mare not wanting to roll on her side... My mare does the same... and I can see the foal bulge out on her side. Except my mare is at her 10th month, so the foal is much bigger than at 8 months, so maybe you can't see it yet... (if I understand well, you mare is at month 8, right?).


----------



## Taz (Mar 31, 2021)

Thanks JFNM miniatures, that's what I've been thinking right down to the ultrasound but I don't have anyone here who wants to do one on a mini. Her 140 day due date is April 23, it won't kill me to wait and see I'd just rather not .
It sounds like Flicka is getting close, that's so exciting!! Is this your first foal? You're going to want more, they are unbelievable to be around.


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Mar 31, 2021)

Yes, it is my first foal, and I already think I want more... 
For now, I'm concentrating on Flicka and the coming foal. I take one thing at a time and do my best to BREATHE! 

The provincial vet school is not too far from my place... they came to do the internal ultrasound on Flicka back in July 2020, although they had to take a different ultrasound machine than usual.

But I totally sympathize with you not having anyone who wants to do it... My regular vet doesn't do minis... she had to refer me to the vet school.

BTW, I know some vets will do external ultrasounds on minis... maybe that could be an option. They can see a foal when he is 5 months old and up... if your mare is due for soon, then your vet could be able to see something. Just an idea... maybe you already thought about it.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Mar 31, 2021)

Taz said:


> Thanks JFNM miniatures, that's what I've been thinking right down to the ultrasound but I don't have anyone here who wants to do one on a mini. Her 140 day due date is April 23, it won't kill me to wait and see I'd just rather not .
> It sounds like Flicka is getting close, that's so exciting!! Is this your first foal? You're going to want more, they are unbelievable to be around.




I am guessing you mean 340...Do you have an average day that she foals on? Remember minis go earlier than full-sized on average and 342 is the full-sized average for foaling while minis average 320-330 and really ought to be watched by day 300. A good friend had one at 298 this year and thankfully, we were already watching her.


----------



## Taz (Mar 31, 2021)

Oops, yes 340 day. She's only had one with me before and it was on 354. She was experienced before me but I have no way of getting any info on what she did then. Yes, watching, she's at 319 today.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Mar 31, 2021)

Taz said:


> Oops, yes 340 day. She's only had one with me before and it was on 354. She was experienced before me but I have no way of getting any info on what she did then. Yes, watching, she's at 319 today.



perfect! I figured as much but wanted to confirm lol. I guess you’ll find out sooner or later.


----------



## Maryann at MiniV (Mar 31, 2021)

Your mare is getting close, at 319. Usually that means the foal is going into foaling position and doesn't have as much room to move around in. If a foal is OVERLY active in the last trimester, I worry because something is stressing it. At least that's what my experience has been. Oh, just was wondering, Taz..... Is your mare is a bit long bodied and/or wide hipped? Our girls who are, often have more room inside, so you don't always see the foal kicking.


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Mar 31, 2021)

Ah! It seems our mares are very close one from each other ! Mine is at 314 days today !


----------



## Taz (Mar 31, 2021)

Yes, she is long backed.


----------



## Taz (Mar 31, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Ah! It seems our mares are very close one from each other ! Mine is at 314 days today !


Oh I see Jumper is still a stud and you have 3 girls. I see more babies in your future . How are you doing with foaling nerves?


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Mar 31, 2021)

Taz said:


> Oh I see Jumper is still a stud and you have 3 girls. I see more babies in your future . How are you doing with foaling nerves?



Yes for more foals in the future !!!! However, the two other girls haven't had any foals yet and I am a bit nervous about having pregnant maiden mares... So I'm waiting to see how things turn out for Flicka before taking a decision.

I was very nervous lately about dystocias and red bags, but I printed out two full articles on those topics (with instructions on how to correct positions). Every evening I read about one different dytocia and learn the procedures for that specific position by heart. I watched LOTS of foaling videos which have helped a lot.

So for now, I'm ok, but we'll see... I have this feeling that pretty soon, things are going to get exciting !


----------



## Taz (Mar 31, 2021)

I find it's terrifying, exhausting and exciting but worth it in the end. I've had 2 with this maybe being my third, none planned,haha.


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Mar 31, 2021)

Taz said:


> I find it's terrifying, exhausting and exciting but worth it in the end. I've had 2 with this maybe being my third, none planned,haha.



Exactly.... I focus on the "worth in the end". It's the best part and helps me stay put.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Mar 31, 2021)

Ditto to what Maryann has written above , much less movement towards the end of the last trimester. I would be very worried if there was an increase in movement. 

Did you manage to get a pic Taz ?


----------



## Taz (Mar 31, 2021)

I finally felt the foal tonight, happy dance!! 
I have a couple of pictures but they don't show anything. She did this last time, no one thought she was in foal until her belly 'popped' 3 weeks before foaling. I'll post them tomorrow anyway so there's something here to compare to later.


----------



## Taz (Apr 1, 2021)

Going by what she did last time she will get a small udder a week or two before foaling and her belly will go from nothing to huge overnight (3 weeks before last time). The only change after that was two days before her udder stopped going down during the day. Never had any elongation. So far she's following mostly the same pattern. Here are pictures from March 30th pm. She's barely passing the rib test, that's not a tiny baby belly.




On a slightly different subject. Dad is a black pintaloosa, mom black/dark bay, both carry red. When I do the colour calculator it comes back with a chance of solid or pintaloosa. How does that work? I thought a pintaloosa would only throw pinto or appy. I'm guessing it's not as simple as he just has those two colour options to throw? I know pinto is dominant, is appy?


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Apr 1, 2021)

Taz said:


> I finally felt the foal tonight, happy dance!!



Yay! Glad to hear it !


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 1, 2021)

Pinto is not dominant unless the sire or dam is homozygous. So you have a 50/50 chance for each of the genes responsible. Assuming none are homozygous you can get a pinto, appaloosa, pintaloosa, or solid. Depends on exact genetics and what they carry.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 1, 2021)

Have either been tested? I have studied color genetics quite a bit, so if you want, you can share full body pictures!


----------



## Taz (Apr 1, 2021)

Neither have been tested, I know from past foals they both carry red. I'm really not this stupid. I've always thought of colour genetics as 1 from each parent and the dominant colour is expressed unless they both throw a recessive then that is expressed. 1 bay, 1 chestnut and you have a bay. 2 chestnuts and you have a chestnut. etc. If dad is pintaloosa how can he through solid? I was thinking he could only through pinto or appy. or is pintaloosa like saying bay and he may be heterozygous for it and carry solid? I probably have you all confused now, sorry. I'm up trying to watch her on my camera that's only covering the middle of the stall, I see lots of feet, noses and tails. My new camera doesn't work. UGH! Waiting for the plumber to call back to put a new water pump in the house. But I'm (like the royal we) having another baby so it's all good! Thanks for trying to make sense of this


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 1, 2021)

Taz said:


> Neither have been tested, I know from past foals they both carry red. I'm really not this stupid. I've always thought of colour genetics as 1 from each parent and the dominant colour is expressed unless they both throw a recessive then that is expressed. 1 bay, 1 chestnut and you have a bay. 2 chestnuts and you have a chestnut. etc. If dad is pintaloosa how can he through solid? I was thinking he could only through pinto or appy. or is pintaloosa like saying bay and he may be heterozygous for it and carry solid? I probably have you all confused now, sorry. I'm up trying to watch her on my camera that's only covering the middle of the stall, I see lots of feet, noses and tails. My new camera doesn't work. UGH! Waiting for the plumber to call back to put a new water pump in the house. But I'm (like the royal we) having another baby so it's all good! Thanks for trying to make sense of this



No worries!!!! I didn’t think you were stupid AT ALL. I hope I didn’t come across that way! So you’ve got the base colors right. There are some nuances though. Like a red horse to a red horse can only produce red. Black to black (both red carriers) is a 75% chance of a black foal and 25% or a red foal. Bay to bay can have any three bases depending on each individual. It helps to think about it this way. You have a base color (red, black, bay) and many modifiers. I can’t think of a true DOMINANT modifier at the moment. For every modifier (like grey, pinto patterns, Appaloosa patterns, silver, cream, champagne, roan, etc) that a horse has, it has a 50% chance of passing that gene. Now sometimes there are modifiers that are linked to specific bases so if a horse has both modifiers, it can only pass one. But pinto and Appaloosa are not that combo. I believe it’s roan and tobiano. So if the stallion has two pinto parents, there is a chance he will be homozygous and carry two copies of that gene which means he will produce pinto foals every time. Same thing with his Appaloosa gene. If he is only heterozygous for either, that will give you the option to have a solid foal. For instance, my stallion is a bay base. He has tobiano and silver. He can have any three bases, with tobiano, without Tobiano, with silver without silver, with tobiano and silver, or without Tobiano and silver. Because he is only heterozygous. That’s why I suggested sharing a picture of your stallion because certain patterns are indicative of homozygosity.


----------



## Taz (Apr 1, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> No worries!!!! I didn’t think you were stupid AT ALL. I hope I didn’t come across that way! So you’ve got the base colors right. There are some nuances though. Like a red horse to a red horse can only produce red. Black to black (both red carriers) is a 75% chance of a black foal and 25% or a red foal. Bay to bay can have any three bases depending on each individual. It helps to think about it this way. You have a base color (red, black, bay) and many modifiers. I can’t think of a true DOMINANT modifier at the moment. For every modifier (like grey, pinto patterns, Appaloosa patterns, silver, cream, champagne, roan, etc) that a horse has, it has a 50% chance of passing that gene. Now sometimes there are modifiers that are linked to specific bases so if a horse has both modifiers, it can only pass one. But pinto and Appaloosa are not that combo. I believe it’s roan and tobiano. So if the stallion has two pinto parents, there is a chance he will be homozygous and carry two copies of that gene which means he will produce pinto foals every time. Same thing with his Appaloosa gene. If he is only heterozygous for either, that will give you the option to have a solid foal. For instance, my stallion is a bay base. He has tobiano and silver. He can have any three bases, with tobiano, without Tobiano, with silver without silver, with tobiano and silver, or without Tobiano and silver. Because he is only heterozygous. That’s why I suggested sharing a picture of your stallion because certain patterns are indicative of homozygosity.


I think I'm being stupid about this, you didn't come off that way . I'll post some pictures of him when I get a chance, that would be great, thanks. Completely understand what you've said. How is your mare doing? Are you surviving school?


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 1, 2021)

Taz said:


> I think I'm being stupid about this, you didn't come off that way . I'll post some pictures of him when I get a chance, that would be great, thanks. Completely understand what you've said. How is your mare doing? Are you surviving school?



Awesome! She’s doing well. Slowly progressing. School is trying to send me to an early grave. Between the two, I’m fried and foal watch hasn’t actually started.


----------



## Taz (Apr 1, 2021)

You have lots of sympathy from me. I am so happy school is long over and I'm never going back. I have a boarder (known her for 17 years) who finished her phd about a year ago, she now has a 3 month old baby. She said the other day hands down school was more stressful and exhausting than a newborn. You're basically dealing with both, not easy.


----------



## Taz (Apr 2, 2021)

Here are a couple really bad pictures of dad and one of mom but I don't think you need that. 




I was only able to track down two of his foal, 1 was a chestnut pintaloosa and 1 was a black one spot pinto. The only kid I know of hers is liver chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail (chocoflax for a Rocky Mountain don't know for a mini). I don't really care what colour Jr is as long as he/she's healthy but if I get to choose I want a filly, I hate gelding them. Thanks so much!!!!


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 2, 2021)

Taz said:


> Here are a couple really bad pictures of dad and one of mom but I don't think you need that.
> View attachment 43077
> View attachment 43078
> View attachment 43079
> ...



Pretty minis! I’m inclined to say black base on both of them. The appy gene is prone to causing color shifting which makes it hard to know the real base. But I’d guess black. I suspect black on her too. He looks varnish which is usually heterozygous. His Tobiano is typical of a heterozygous tobiano. But sometimes they can surprise us. Soooo...what I would guess is this. Pretend that splash is Appaloosa. It doesn’t let you put tobiano and appy in. So everywhere it says splash replace with Appaloosa, and tovero with pintaloosa.


----------



## Taz (Apr 3, 2021)

Thanks! What is varnish?


----------



## Dragon Hill (Apr 3, 2021)

It's an appy pattern, sometimes confused with roaning or greying out. Google for pictures, it's hard to describe.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 3, 2021)

Taz said:


> Thanks! What is varnish?


Dragon Hill is right. It is an appy pattern. There are two identified genes for Appaloosas. LP which is what causes the white hairs. And PATRN1 which causes the actual spots. That’s how you end up with so many different Appaloosa patterns. For instance, a fewspot Appaloosa will be at least LPLP and PATRN1/.... so every single one of its foals will inherit white hairs, and if it only has one PATRN1 about half will get spots. Fewspots look like they are covered with one big white spot. Almost solid white. Snowcaps usually just have a big solid white spot over their hips. They are LPLP with no PATRN1. So all their foals will have white hairs but not actual spots. Leopards and blankets have one LP and at least one PATRN1 although they can have two spotting genes. And varnish has one LP and no PATRN1. Those are the general appy rules, but some don’t play by them at all, so without testing it is hard to say for sure. Sorry I probably went too in-depth, but genetics fascinate me lol.


----------



## Taz (Apr 3, 2021)

Not too in-depth at all, it's fascinating. That would explain what I've seen on Finn(his kid from last year). He's pinto with no freckles or other signs of appy( I thought) but his black has white(roaning) mixed in with it in his main and body, or at least what I've seen of his body he didn't lose much foal coat and is being very slow getting rid of any winter hair. So I guess he's pintaloosa not pinto?


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 3, 2021)

Taz said:


> Not too in-depth at all, it's fascinating. That would explain what I've seen on Finn(his kid from last year). He's pinto with no freckles or other signs of appy( I thought) but his black has white(roaning) mixed in with it in his main and body, or at least what I've seen of his body he didn't lose much foal coat and is being very slow getting rid of any winter hair. So I guess he's pintaloosa not pinto?



Very possibly! Usually varnish will increase with time too. Some horses born “solid” will end up almost pure white.


----------



## Willow Flats (Apr 4, 2021)

Taz said:


> Not too in-depth at all, it's fascinating. That would explain what I've seen on Finn(his kid from last year). He's pinto with no freckles or other signs of appy( I thought) but his black has white(roaning) mixed in with it in his main and body, or at least what I've seen of his body he didn't lose much foal coat and is being very slow getting rid of any winter hair. So I guess he's pintaloosa not pinto?


Once he sheds out you'll have to post another picture of Finn!❤


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Apr 4, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Very possibly! Usually varnish will increase with time too. Some horses born “solid” will end up almost pure white.



Very fascinating ! One of my mares, Nougat, was bred by a very experience breeder who said she was a bit disappointed when she saw a completely solid bay filly come out of her Appaloosa mare (stud was bay). That pair had already produced some very flashy foals and fillies, but she thought Nougat might be the exception so she decided to sell her. When I bought her, she was two y.o and had only ONE appy spot. Now, she's turning seven in June and has more and more spots appearing every spring when she sheds and gets whiter and whiter.

Genetics are just so complex, but so interesting !


----------



## Taz (Apr 5, 2021)

So a question and some venting.....

How accurate are the test strips? I'm using them right now and she's testing 8/9 so I'm only checking every 2 1/2 hours and getting some sleep. I'm on my third camera set up and waiting for one more piece to arrive, then hopefully will have it up and running so she doesn't disappear half the night. I did see some tail swishing with bum pushing two nights ago and she was rolling last night but not as much activity as with her last one.

There have been ehv-1 outbreaks in both Canada and the US recently. The latest here is 20min from me. I've shut the farm down to everyone but my boarders, with them warned not to have any contact with any other horses no matter what. I don't know if this is what I've been dealing with here since Jan (1 dead and 3 recovered, symptoms don't quit fit) but I'm being paranoid with Izzy and careful with everyone else. I did go ahead and give her her first of two foaling shots ( she didn't get them with her last foal and he was very sick at about 3 weeks old) and between that ( I know foaling shots are normal but there's always a chance) and the possibility of a stillborn foal from the ehv-1 even if she's not sick or showing symptoms, I'm worrying about more than just the normal foaling stuff. I haven't been able to feel the foal again of course. I'm really looking forward to this being over soon with a healthy FILLY.

Pitter Patter, Snickers better get there soon too, I think I'm as worried about her as Izzy.


----------



## Pitter Patter (Apr 5, 2021)

Oh Taz. I hope Izzy and the others will be ok! We thankfully haven't had any outbreaks here. What are foaling shots? Is this something I should be concerned with? I think Snickers has decided she isn't going to foal anytime soon. Just to drive me crazy, I'm sure...LOL!


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 5, 2021)

Taz said:


> So a question and some venting.....
> 
> How accurate are the test strips? I'm using them right now and she's testing 8/9 so I'm only checking every 2 1/2 hours and getting some sleep. I'm on my third camera set up and waiting for one more piece to arrive, then hopefully will have it up and running so she doesn't disappear half the night. I did see some tail swishing with bum pushing two nights ago and she was rolling last night but not as much activity as with her last one.
> 
> ...



No experience with ehv -1. PH strips have been extremely accurate for me and my friends. The trick is to test them frequently enough to actually catch the drop. Because colostrum will test very very low as 6.4 or less. But some drop a lot faster than others. Once mine start dropping, I cast at least 2 to 3 times a day. And I say drop more I test more frequently. Since it only takes a drip, it really will not harm the colostrum production.


----------



## Taz (Apr 5, 2021)

Foaling shots are basically just their normal yearly vaccines given about a month before foaling so their immunity is high and passed on to the foal. 

LOL. Every time I look at Snickers she's sleeping or eating, I hope you're seeing more go on than I am? Any change in her udder or elongation?


----------



## Taz (Apr 8, 2021)

Izzy is now day 327, you wouldn't know it looking at her, she's the least pregnant looking in the paddock(that includes 3 boys and 2 girls who definitely are not) I took these tonight, pH is still 8/9. She doesn't want to lie down at night and lots of tail swishing and holding her tail up. I think it will be another 4 weeks, best guess, but I'd be very happy to be wrong.


I could also be completely out of my mind and it's all wishful thinking and she's not in foal at all, but this is basically the same pattern she followed before. I'm going a little nuts second guessing myself.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Apr 13, 2021)

Taz I've seen mares look much less pregnant than this that were actually in foal. 

How has she been over the weekend ?


----------



## Taz (Apr 13, 2021)

She has absolutely nothing going on tonight. She had a bit more fill in her teats this morning but she's back to none tonight. I'm pretty sure I did feel the foal tonight though, it's just very gentle. She spent about 1/2 hour last night pacing, swishing her tail, scratching/rubbing everything but her bum and rolled a couple of times. I looked back on her last foal and she had a small udder and her belly had popped on Feb. 20 and she foaled on March 17. I think I'm looking at a May baby.....?????


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Apr 13, 2021)

Fingers crossed for you Taz


----------



## Taz (Apr 14, 2021)

Thanks. I do think she's in foal I'm just going to question it and freak out until she/he's on the ground and they are both doing well.


----------



## Taz (Apr 14, 2021)

Question about pH strips. From what I've read it's the colostrum that tests low. If they don't get an udder, or much of one, but there is some fluid to test, is the fluid that's being tested close to foaling colostrum? Does that rambling sentence even make sense to anyone?


----------



## Pitter Patter (Apr 14, 2021)

Makes absolute sense to me, but then again, we are both sleep deprived! I don't have an answer for you as you know already, I ordered test strips and have had zero luck getting close to that udder! I guess for now I'd say it can't hurt to try! (unless she's irritable like Snickers!). It seems your Izzy is much sweeter


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 14, 2021)

Taz said:


> Question about pH strips. From what I've read it's the colostrum that tests low. If they don't get an udder, or much of one, but there is some fluid to test, is the fluid that's being tested close to foaling colostrum? Does that rambling sentence even make sense to anyone?



Yes it makes sense! You’re correct that colostrum will test low. Ph strips should still catch the drop in ph has colostrum comes in. I haven’t actually tested ones that had no udder but I think I may with my mare this year. She has virtually nothing going on and I know she did not get a large udder with her last foal.


----------



## Taz (Apr 14, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> Yes it makes sense! You’re correct that colostrum will test low. Ph strips should still catch the drop in ph has colostrum comes in. I haven’t actually tested ones that had no udder but I think I may with my mare this year. She has virtually nothing going on and I know she did not get a large udder with her last foal.


Great, I'm using that to have an idea if I need to go to high alert since she's giving me absolutely nothing else  




Pitter Patter said:


> Makes absolute sense to me, but then again, we are both sleep deprived! I don't have an answer for you as you know already, I ordered test strips and have had zero luck getting close to that udder! I guess for now I'd say it can't hurt to try! (unless she's irritable like Snickers!). It seems your Izzy is much sweeter


I don't think it has anything to do with Snickers not being sweet, she just needs to learn she can trust you completely, she's come a long way. I have one I wouldn't be able to test who's been here almost 2 years and is super sweet but still doesn't trust but she's getting better. Izzy has been here 4 years. She really came around after she had her colt 3 years ago and realized even though I was handling him every day and carrying him to and from turn out I never hurt/scared him or took him away. It took her about 3 days of that and she let her guard down all the way. The same thing happened with Tilly last year. I'm hoping Snickers will figure that out too with you spending time with her foal. She might not have a cuddly personality, most mares don't, but stop being on guard around you. Hope you got a good nap today!!!!


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Apr 15, 2021)

Taz said:


> Thanks. I do think she's in foal I'm just going to question it and freak out until she/he's on the ground and they are both doing well.



We are so much like each other


----------



## Taz (Apr 20, 2021)

Day 339 and still not really showing anything. Another 15 days and she'll be where she had her last colt. Lots of cow kicking, tail swishing and scratching. I'm 99% sure she is in foal but I'm reserving the 1% to be wrong. I really hope she gets it together after foaling and has an udder. No really noticeable changes in her belly either 

April 1 

April 8

April 20


----------



## Taz (Apr 21, 2021)

I have a question. elizabeth.conder said something about when a mare is getting close she might lift her belly when you touch it. I was patting Izzy last night and when I ran my hand gently along her side/belly front to back she lifted that side of her belly up a couple of inches. Is that what you were talking about or was I just bothering her?


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Apr 21, 2021)

Some use the "Bellie lift" to strengthen their backs, cant say I have ever noticed a pregnant mare do it more than a horse in general.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 21, 2021)

Taz said:


> I have a question. elizabeth.conder said something about when a mare is getting close she might lift her belly when you touch it. I was patting Izzy last night and when I ran my hand gently along her side/belly front to back she lifted that side of her belly up a couple of inches. Is that what you were talking about or was I just bothering her?



It could be. It looks like when a mare lifts for the foal to nurse. I know you’ve seen them do that so you’ll know what it looks like. Not all do it. But I use it in addition to other signs that they are getting close. Ryan, it’s not a typical belly lift. They do it once they get close enough that they instinctively lift when they sense something there in anticipation of foals nursing. I’ve never seen any but my pregnant mares do it at the end haha.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Apr 21, 2021)

This is one of my mares. She foaled within a week. I’ll add a YouTube link to show what I mean. Mare in foal belly lift


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Apr 21, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> It could be. It looks like when a mare lifts for the foal to nurse. I know you’ve seen them do that so you’ll know what it looks like. Not all do it. But I use it in addition to other signs that they are getting close. Ryan, it’s not a typical belly lift. They do it once they get close enough that they instinctively lift when they sense something there in anticipation of foals nursing. I’ve never seen any but my pregnant mares do it at the end haha.



Ill be checking this out late sept


----------



## Taz (Apr 22, 2021)

I've actually never seen her do it for her foal, she would cock the opposite leg to let him nurse, or possibly she did and I just never saw it. looks the same right down to the 'what are you doing? Leave me alone' at the end.


----------



## Taz (Apr 23, 2021)

Definitely looks just like in your video, I did it your way instead of what I did accidentally. Her hardness has been up and down but has been going down for a day then back up for a day rinse and repeat for a few times now instead of up for a day down for a week, just checking what it's doing not diluting. pH is still 8/9. I was really hoping she would be the same as last time but no.....mares!


----------



## Taz (Apr 26, 2021)

Day 345. Absolutely nothing to report. I'm still solidly in the she IS is foal camp but I think she was being REALLY nice to the newby last time, I'd be thrilled if she'd give me the small hints she did then. I'm checking her every hour at night and have her in a paddock that's easy to see from the barn and house. I'll switch to half hour checks in a few days but it would be so nice to have a baby before I do that for who knows how many nights. I've asked her for even a little hint but she's not giving anything up. I'm starting to whine, that's never a good sign. Where do they put the baby anyway when they don't show?!?


----------



## Taz (Apr 29, 2021)

Just have to vent a bit....or maybe that's whine. She's still giving me nothing to go on. The camera had a break down last night and went on and off all night so I got almost no sleep so I could check her when it decided to work. It's day 348 and I've been doing hourly checks at night, that's probably going to change to 1/2 hour checks by day 350. I hate foal watch! She better really be in foal after all of this!!!! Thanks....


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Apr 29, 2021)

This is great, she gave you nothing last year , so I hope shes following the same pattern  ( sorry prob not funny when your sleep deprived)

To answer your question two posts up......... When a mare hardly "shows" (and its usually maiden mares, so yours is EXTRA special) the mare is carrying the foal higher up in the rib cage, so its less visible.


----------



## Taz (Apr 29, 2021)

Ryan Johnson said:


> This is great, she gave you nothing last year , so I hope shes following the same pattern  ( sorry prob not funny when your sleep deprived)
> 
> To answer your question two posts up......... When a mare hardly "shows" (and its usually maiden mares, so yours is EXTRA special) the mare is carrying the foal higher up in the rib cage, so its less visible.


Hahahaha!! Probably funnier when I'm sleep deprived.


----------



## Taz (Apr 30, 2021)

OK, she's had some small changes that I didn't post but I am now since I think they might be all she does. 3 days ago she got a tiny belly. She went from looking like a sausage with no definition from her shoulder to past her flank to a sausage with a tiny bump in the middle. Nothing big enough for my camera to pick up but I could see it if I was at the right angle. As of this morning the bump has dropped lower and her flanks are sunken(that would be normal looking not filled out). I'm calling her dropped. I think that's pretty safe since she's at day 349. Her hardness has also gone up a bit and stayed there for 3-4 days now. I'm hoping for soon! Also safe with how far along she is, lol.


----------



## PaintMeAMini (Apr 30, 2021)

Taz said:


> OK, she's had some small changes that I didn't post but I am now since I think they might be all she does. 3 days ago she got a tiny belly. She went from looking like a sausage with no definition from her shoulder to past her flank to a sausage with a tiny bump in the middle. Nothing big enough for my camera to pick up but I could see it if I was at the right angle. As of this morning the bump has dropped lower and her flanks are sunken(that would be normal looking not filled out). I'm calling her dropped. I think that's pretty safe since she's at day 349. Her hardness has also gone up a bit and stayed there for 3-4 days now. I'm hoping for soon! Also safe with how far along she is, lol.


----------



## Taz (May 1, 2021)

Had a storm most of the night and she acted 'funny' when I first went to bed but it didn't turn into anything. Her flanks are filled out again and she doesn't look dropped anymore. She's very on edge, not normal for her.  One day closer....


----------



## Taz (May 4, 2021)

I've now survived 3 nights of my alarm going off every 1/2 hour, it seems like the more I watch the less she does. She's gone from being very on edge to being really sucky. neither one is normal for her. Other than that nothing has changed. 353 days, her last foal was at 354. Maybe soon....please, or at least if she's not maybe something to tell me that?


----------



## Pitter Patter (May 4, 2021)

Hang in there, Taz!!


----------



## MBENES (May 5, 2021)

Good luck and healthy foaling.


----------



## Taz (May 6, 2021)

Thank you! All the best wishes for you and Consuelo
Day 355 and still nothing. My gut still says she is and I'm sticking with this till there's absolutely no chance.


----------



## Taz (May 7, 2021)

I know this has been mentioned before but bare with me I'm really tired. Izzy has gotten very itchy everywhere, she even stands eating rubbing her back legs against each other. Going nuts last night trying to turn herself inside out to get to all of it. I know they can scratch their bums/tails but can it be really severe all over just from being close to foaling? She didn't do any of this last time.


----------



## Taz (May 8, 2021)

357 days.
She still has no udder but both teats have been filled(had one and a half before) and not gone down for 3 days now. She has her tail up and is shifting her back end around. pH is still 8/9 but hardness undiluted has gone from 450 where she's been for a couple of weeks up to 700-800. Fingers crossed soon.


----------



## Taz (May 10, 2021)

359 days...and counting.
Her hardness was back to 450 last night but her teats are still up. She's still scratching but not going nuts so it has to be from being pregnant, does anyone know what causes that? She looks v'd on camera this morning but it could be the angle, I'll know when I get out there in a few min. The weather here has been awful, cold wet and windy. The long range forecast says warm and mostly sunny after tomorrow so tomorrow night would be perfect. PLEASE! I really want to sleep.


----------



## Pitter Patter (May 10, 2021)

I know with people, itching can occur with hormone changes, kidney and liver issues, parasites, dry skin, etc....Hopefully she foals soon and won't be so itchy!!


----------



## Taz (May 10, 2021)

Of course she's itchy again, almost sitting down to get her bum good! I'm thinking of that as a positive. If it's not baby then it's probably lice, I had a horse move in with it a few years ago and it crops up now and then with one of them. Definitely a small v today. She did that a couple of days ago and it was gone by night, we'll see......


----------



## Taz (May 11, 2021)

V was gone again by the time she came in last night. 
360 days, I can't believe it. I thought this was going to be an easy foal watch since I'd done this with her once before. The only thing she's doing the same is giving me almost nothing to go on, less this time than last and it's all different. This is the last day of cold windy wet weather for a while, maybe the warm sun coming tomorrow will get things going.....


----------



## Taz (May 12, 2021)

And the v's back again. UGH!! Still no udder, sigh.


----------



## Taz (May 13, 2021)

Day 362
Of course I'm freaking out that she's going so long. I do still think there's a foal and not just a false pregnancy, time will tell if I'm right or not. Last night I was googling why they can carry to and over their due date. What I found was either a problem with the placenta that makes the foal not develop as fast as normal or a problem with the foals pituitary gland that makes them not let off the steroid that tells the mare to go into labor, in which case the foal gets really big. Yup, totally freaking out.


----------



## Taz (May 13, 2021)

For big horses 370 days is still considered within normal gestation length and can go longer with a live foal, I'm guessing with mini's too? I hope so....Starting to think it's never going to happen. Of course once she foals I'll say it was all worth it...again. Babbling and stressing.....


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 13, 2021)

Taz, was her previous foal a red bag ? Just wondering because if so, maybe it explains the fact she gave birth earlier than this one...Maybe this baby won't be a red bag and he'll stay the length of time he's supposed to stay in there. I'll tell you what, while I've often heard and read that minis go shorter gestational lenghts, my experience with Flicka makes me wish she had a longer gestational lenght with Ti-pou.... Now that I've gone through what I've gone through, I'd freak out it she was going to have it sooner than her date... but again, that's just me. Just a thought to reassure you.

You could always ring a vet who has experience with minis pregnancies and ask her or his opinion.

I know you said she doesn't have any udder... but did you still try to see if there is any milk ?


----------



## Taz (May 13, 2021)

Thanks JFNM minitures. Her last foal wasn't a red bag but yes, I am trying to be positive about longer is better to have a fully cooked baby. She has skimmed milk, hardness up a bit, no colostrum yet. She didn't have anything for the first 3 hours or so with her last one. I had a dog get hurt last night,she's fine now, but between looking after her and foal watch I got no sleep and I'm worse(worrying) today for it, I'll get over it by tomorrow. Maybe she'll foal tonight! 
How's Flicka doing?


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 13, 2021)

Taz said:


> Thanks JFNM minitures. Her last foal wasn't a red bag but yes, I am trying to be positive about longer is better to have a fully cooked baby. She has skimmed milk, hardness up a bit, no colostrum yet. She didn't have anything for the first 3 hours or so with her last one. I had a dog get hurt last night,she's fine now, but between looking after her and foal watch I got no sleep and I'm worse(worrying) today for it, I'll get over it by tomorrow. Maybe she'll foal tonight!
> How's Flicka doing?



Milk consistency can change fast, so keep an eye on it. Are you testing her milk for pH? 
I really hope you can get some sleep ! And I REALLY hope tonight's the night !

Flicka is doing great. She's happy to be with her friends and is really getting friendly with Mulan. I often see them doing mutual grooming. She still has conflicts (nothing major) from time to time with Nougat, but really it's not her fault. Nougat is a bossy girl.


----------



## Taz (May 13, 2021)

Yes, I'm testing, so far her pH is staying at 8/9.
That's great Flicka's doing well. Are you recovering? Have you decided if you're going to try for another baby next year? It's so hard after what you went through....


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 13, 2021)

I'm not used to that kind of test strips... Is she supposed to be 9/9 when she's "ready" ? Just curious.
I'm recovering... slowly. I take the time to do fun things with my horses... like grooming them, making them graze, or training them. It helps the healing process. As for another baby, I'm not sure yet. If yes, I'd be planning for a June or July foal... during my vacation time. Also, it's probably going to be better in terms of weather. April was pretty nasty...


----------



## Taz (May 13, 2021)

Unfortunately she needs to be around 6 in the test strips. She's testing at 8 or 9. No udder, no colostrum is what I'm thinking.
Glad you're taking the time to recover. June /July is much better timing . Mine last year was middle of July and it was great being able to put them ouy all day without worrying. Izzy's last(my first) was mid March, he had 3 blankets on to go out 1/2 the day.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (May 13, 2021)

Still crossing fingers for you Taz


----------



## Taz (May 13, 2021)

OK, I've taken a breath and am over the panic attack. Crossing my fingers for tonight


----------



## Taz (May 15, 2021)

364 days, nothing yet.
She has a bit more fill in the mornings for the last two days but it's not all staying through the day. She does have a bit of a belly both from behind and the side and has looked dropped or v'd consistently for about 3 days. I'm still 99% she really is in foal. Can't stay pregnant for ever right? Maybe she's going for a record, I think she has to go over 400 and something to get that.


----------



## Willow Flats (May 15, 2021)

Taz, hoping to hear "I knew it, she really was pregnant! Her foal is here!"


----------



## Taz (May 15, 2021)

Willow Flats said:


> Taz, hoping to hear "I knew it, she really was pregnant! Her foal is here!"


I'm hoping to write that soon too!
She had more edema in front of her not udder this morning.


----------



## Taz (May 16, 2021)

No foal yet. I have gone to 100% pregnant though. Her little belly was all over on the right side this morning and as far as I know that can't happen with a false pregnancy but please anyone let me know if I'm wrong. Now it's just waiting and worrying until she foals. I'm a zombie right now and can hardly put a coherent sentence together, I hope I don't start drooling soon. 365 days today


----------



## PaintMeAMini (May 17, 2021)

You noticed Izzy being itchy a while ago and I noticed the same thing in Faye recently.


----------



## Taz (May 18, 2021)

Izzy's not as itchy now but was going crazy with it for a while, she rubbed herself raw in a couple of places. Go Faye!!
367 days and I'm back to is she even pregnant(after long nights) even though I've seen signs that she is, I'll be doing 1/2 hour checks for a while yet, I'm not giving up on her.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (May 18, 2021)

Mares will just about rub the skin off their backsides as they near foaling . They become irritated with the increase in pressure build up.


----------



## Taz (May 19, 2021)

She's all out to the right again today and the edema has now moved back to connect with her not udder, hoping soon, we'll see.


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 19, 2021)

Taz said:


> She's all out to the right again today and the edema has now moved back to connect with her not udder, hoping soon, we'll see.



Taz, I really hope for you that it's soon ! How are you ? Not too tired I hope ! Are you able to take naps during the day ?


----------



## Taz (May 19, 2021)

Thanks, soon would be good . I got a nap today and will be able to tomorrow and Fri as well, love naps! I'm doing OK, tired and worried about something going wrong like everyone else doing foal watch. In case I haven't said it.. I really hate foal watch, but the babies are so wonderful!!


----------



## Pitter Patter (May 20, 2021)

Any news Taz??


----------



## Taz (May 20, 2021)

Nothing....
We've gone from 18C to 30C the last two days. She's absolutely miserable and hot, hanging out in the shade when she can. Sitting on the fence to scratch. Her belly was all over to the right again this morning but back even again tonight. Her edema is still moving back but no udder yet. I keep telling myself it's going to be soon but I'm happy to wait for that baby to be ready. 369 days and counting.


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 21, 2021)

Wow Taz, you should earn a prize for one of the longest waits for foal watch 2021 ! Hoping that the baby will wait for the weather to cool down , yet soon enough so you can get your much deserved sleep!

And yes, this is terrible heat for Canadians and their polar horses. Two of my mare still have some winter coat left, despite the fact I've been brushing them forever... they look so miserable, poor girls.


----------



## Taz (May 21, 2021)

I haven't been posting pictures, it's really hard to get any that show how she looks in person. I took these tonight, I don't know if you'll be able to see much, I have to be far away for anything to show. She has had a belly for about 3 weeks I think, it all runs together, she goes back and forth from looking v'd(pointy) to rounder and has been over to the right quite a lot. Pointy most of today but not tonight.Still has edema attached to the front of her not udder but her 'udder' didn't go down today. I'm not too excited about that, it's happened before. I've given up checking her pH for now, it stays at 8 or 9 and her hardness undiluted has been 450 for weeks, up to 750 for a day then back down.


----------



## Kelly (May 21, 2021)

Awe! Beautiful pics TAZ!!! Your horse is gorgeous!!


----------



## Taz (May 22, 2021)

Kelly said:


> Awe! Beautiful pics TAZ!!! Your horse is gorgeous!!


Thank you, she's a real sweetheart


----------



## MBENES (May 22, 2021)

Taz said:


> No foal yet. I have gone to 100% pregnant though. Her little belly was all over on the right side this morning and as far as I know that can't happen with a false pregnancy but please anyone let me know if I'm wrong. Now it's just waiting and worrying until she foals. I'm a zombie right now and can hardly put a coherent sentence together, I hope I don't start drooling soon. 365 days today


Poor you! I hope you get a healthy foal SOON!


----------



## Taz (May 22, 2021)

MBENES said:


> Poor you! I hope you get a healthy foal SOON!


Thank you.
371 days


----------



## MBENES (May 22, 2021)

Taz said:


> Thank you.
> 371 days


I think she is aiming for a record. I am hoping mine will not stretch it out too much longer, but the more I read, and the more pictures of mare vulvas and udders that I look at , the more I think she has a couple of weeks at least.


----------



## Taz (May 22, 2021)

MBENES said:


> I think she is aiming for a record. I am hoping mine will not stretch it out too much longer, but the more I read, and the more pictures of mare vulvas and udders that I look at , the more I think she has a couple of weeks at least.


The longer this goes the more I hope I'm right and she really is pregnant with a healthy foal and not just really fat(although I can find ribs and she's lost behind her shoulders eating more) and I could have been SLEEPING.
Good luck with your girl not being too long.


----------



## Taz (May 22, 2021)

MBENES said:


> I think she is aiming for a record. I am hoping mine will not stretch it out too much longer, but the more I read, and the more pictures of mare vulvas and udders that I look at , the more I think she has a couple of weeks at least.


The longer this goes on the more I'm hoping she really is pregnant with a healthy foal and not just fat/false pregnacy and I could have been SLEEPING and not worrying.
Good luck an your girl not taking too much longer, do you have any new pictures?
Sorry about doubling up, I don't know what happened but I'm claiming sleep deprivation.


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 22, 2021)

Taz said:


> The longer this goes the more I hope I'm right and she really is pregnant with a healthy foal and not just really fat(although I can find ribs and she's lost behind her shoulders eating more) and I could have been SLEEPING.




Oh Taz! I really hope this is over and SOON! 
And yes, with a healthy foal to reward all your long sleepless nights !


----------



## Taz (May 23, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Oh Taz! I really hope this is over and SOON!
> And yes, with a healthy foal to reward all your long sleepless nights !


Thank you


----------



## Pitter Patter (May 23, 2021)

I agree with you Taz. I think she is pregnant, just how far to go--who knows???!! Poor you! You've certainly got my sympathy!


----------



## Taz (May 23, 2021)

Pitter Patter said:


> I agree with you Taz. I think she is pregnant, just how far to go--who knows???!! Poor you! You've certainly got my sympathy!


Thank you!


----------



## Taz (May 23, 2021)

I felt a couple of definite maybe baby kicks tonight, that's about as good as I've been getting. Fingers crossed for tonight, not that she looks ready but she is 372 days for crying out loud!


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 23, 2021)

Tonight! Tonight ! TONIGHT ! Come on Izzy ! You can do this !


----------



## Taz (May 24, 2021)

Nope.....


----------



## Cayuse (May 27, 2021)

Anything???


----------



## Taz (May 27, 2021)

376 days and counting.
She does look like she's maybe going to finally get something going with her udder. I'm still trying to be positive and haven't given up yet but OMG! The vet was here for shots this morning and when she didn't want to be caught (she's normally in your pocket) I commented that she was 376 days and he said she's cranky and doesn't want anyone doing anything, that's normal, can't blame her. He wasn't concerned at all with her going this long. I will post ASAP if she ever foals.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (May 27, 2021)

For your sake, I hope it is soon.


----------



## Taz (May 28, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> For your sake, I hope it is soon.


Thank you. I'm trying not to tell myself it's just a false prenancy and go to sleep. I'm too scared of finding something bad whenI wake up.


----------



## Pitter Patter (May 28, 2021)

Come on Izzy, this wait is getting ridiculous already! Your human mama is probably exhausted...let's see what you have hiding...


----------



## Taz (May 28, 2021)

I'm starting to think she's not hiding anything.......I'm too stubborn to give up yet though.


----------



## MerMaeve (May 28, 2021)

Oh golly, I feel for you, Taz!!


----------



## Taz (May 29, 2021)

I took this just as I was getting up this morning, does that look v'd to anyone? She's looked like this on and off for about 4 weeks, more on than off lately. I'm at the I don't know stage. I'm going to post later why I think she's pregnant and why I don't and ask for opinions on whether I should give up and get some sleep.


----------



## Taz (May 29, 2021)

Ok, I'm putting this all in one place and then you can tell me what you think.....PLEASE!!
Last foal, and only one with me:
---foaled at 354 days
---didn't show at all until 4 weeks before foaling then was huge overnight, didn't looked dropped or slab sided even when in labor
---had about a 1/3 of an udder 4 weeks before foaling, didn't go down during the day for 2 days, foaled on the second day
---could feel definite foal movement every few days but not very active
---had 'trial runs' complete with a couple contractions for at least 2 weeks before foaling
---bum rubbing and tail swishing on and off at night, nothing during the day
---didn't test pH
This foal
---have felt foal movement once where both sides banged out at the same time, only quiet maybes a few other times
---got a small belly(1/2 the size or a bit less from last time) 4 weeks ago, looks lower and goes back and forth between round and pointy(v'd?)
---no udder, just some fill in her teats that had increased a couple days ago and has gone away as of yesterday
---very itchy all the time, all over not just her bum
---some bum pushing at night, will sit on the wall to doze
---tail swishing all the time
---biting at her belly sometimes at night
---doesn't want to lie on her side to sleep, fights it till she falls over from being on her chest after a couple of nights
---378 days, I didn't get the breed date wrong
---belly has been over to one side a few times and has stayed for over 12 hours some time
---skim milk, tests 8-9 pH, hardness has gone from 250 to 450 undiluted and staying there for a few weeks, went up to 700 or so for 1 day then back to 450

So, am I insane to think she's in foal? I don't expect her to be the same as last time, but it would have been nice. I'm sure I've missed some things, please ask. I keep going to she's just fat and has lice, which would let me sleep again....


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 30, 2021)

Thinking


Taz said:


> Ok, I'm putting this all in one place and then you can tell me what you think.....PLEASE!!
> Last foal, and only one with me:
> ---foaled at 354 days
> ---didn't show at all until 4 weeks before foaling then was huge overnight, didn't looked dropped or slab sided even when in labor
> ...



Taz, does she avoid shaking her belly and shakes only her neck ? I know it may be considered to be an old saying, but it was true with Flicka..


----------



## Taz (May 30, 2021)

She shakes her whole body, did last time too though....

I'll add her tail is going more/faster as of last night. Her 'udder' feels like it's trying to come back this morning.


----------



## JFNM miniatures (May 30, 2021)

Taz said:


> She shakes her whole body, did last time too though....
> 
> I'll add her tail is going more/faster as of last night. Her 'udder' feels like it's trying to come back this morning.



Hmm. Well, I do have to say that the last picture you posted, from your cam, she really looks like she has a v'd. Even Flicka did not have such a visible drop that could be seen that far. But I'm not the most experienced here.... 

Edited to add, I was wondering, when you say her tail is going more/faster as of last night, do you mean she did even more tail switching than usual ? 

Also, how is her hind end ? Is is loose or "jello" like ? How did that aspect look before her last foaling ?


----------



## Taz (May 30, 2021)

Yes, I mean she has been swishing more. Last time she didn't elongate or soften at all. She gives very few indicators  I'm not sure if there is anything else that would make a belly lopsided or make that v but ?????


----------



## Taz (May 31, 2021)

Her belly's back over on the right again. I think she has to be in foal but 380 days, come on!!


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jun 1, 2021)

Looking at the photos you posted on the 22/5, she looks pregnant, shes a little lopsided.

What I do want to say is that when a foal "drops" into position for delivery ( this is when the "V" shape is noticeable ) this is the position that the foal stays in until delivery . During all the years we have bred ( and Ill be honest its mainly TBs) I have never seen a mare "V" , then return to being a wide load. Someone correct me if they have noticed differently.
Taz Im still cheering for ya


----------



## Taz (Jun 1, 2021)

I have no idea.....
Even when she's looked dropped or v'd she is still a wide load.  Maybe I'm not seeing her dropped, I don't know anymore. I'm just trying to survive waiting it out and see.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jun 1, 2021)

How is she today ?


----------



## Taz (Jun 2, 2021)

Before I went to 'sleep' she was pacing and rubbing then pacing some more, didn't turn into anything. She came in with her 'not udder' still up but she's done that for 2 days before then back down again during the day. Watching and hoping soon, I still think in foal, too stubborn not too.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jun 2, 2021)

You know her better than anyone else and shes definitely giving you plenty of signs


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Jun 3, 2021)

Any changes/progress Taz ?


----------



## Taz (Jun 3, 2021)

I'm going crazy!!
Her 'not udder' hasn't gone down for 2 days now, done that before though so I'm not very excited about it. It is much harder though, I don't know if that means anything? She's still itchy everywhere but is rubbing her bum more than anywhere else now and doing almost as much pushing as rubbing as of last night. 383 days


----------



## Taz (Jun 3, 2021)

Tonight is the third day in a row her not udder hasn't gone down......


----------



## Pitter Patter (Jun 3, 2021)

Taz said:


> Tonight is the third day in a row her not udder hasn't gone down......


Come on Izzy!


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Jun 3, 2021)

Any new pictures?


----------



## MerMaeve (Jun 3, 2021)

Tonight's the night Izzy!


----------



## Taz (Jun 4, 2021)

Nothing. She barely scratched anywhere and I didn't see her scratch her bum at all, almost no tail swishing. I'll try to get some pictures.


----------



## MBENES (Jun 4, 2021)

Thinking of you. I am also in a waiting game, but have begun to see some changes to the udder.


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Jun 4, 2021)

Taz said:


> Nothing. She barely scratched anywhere and I didn't see her scratch her bum at all, almost no tail swishing. I'll try to get some pictures.



Did you try the tail resistance test ? Just a thought...


----------



## Taz (Jun 4, 2021)

Nothing with her tail, there wasn't last time either. I think her belly looks smaller from behind this morning, see what you think. It wasn't smaller last night. 
Last week 
Please ignore the mess in the barn, I hadn't swept. This morning 



I'm still staying with in foal and taking her own sweet time. If it turns out she isn't, OK, if I give up and she is and something goes wrong that I could have fixed I don't think I could come back from that.


----------



## Taz (Jun 4, 2021)

MBENES said:


> Thinking of you. I am also in a waiting game, but have begun to see some changes to the udder.


Changes! How exciting! Any pictures? How are you holding up?


----------



## MBENES (Jun 4, 2021)

Taz said:


> Changes! How exciting! Any pictures? How are you holding up?


I will upload pictures later. I can still only squeeze a few drops of clear fluid from her, not enough to activate the test paper, which I will test later to see if it is a dud. I finally realized that if I held a mirror under her belly, I could get better pictures than trying contortions that strained my bad back. She has been yawning a lot the past couple of days, but when I turned her loose with grazing muzzle and sheep, she took off the day before yesterday like a little fat bullet, having pony zoomies. I didn't know she could move so fast!


----------



## Taz (Jun 4, 2021)

Oh, a mirror, I never thought of that, what a great idea. I find it so hard to get udder pics that I almost never do and just go by feel. The colostrum is what tests low so until she starts to get that it's probably not the strips. Yes, it's amazing how fast they can go and that they even want to at this stage but they love it!! Looking forward to pictures.


----------



## Taz (Jun 5, 2021)

Her not udder didn't go down again yesterday, that's 4 days in a row now. She spent about 45 min laying down swishing her tail and changing from on her chest to on her side a lot then nothing. She was back to being really itchy again and her belly still looks smaller this morning.


----------



## MBENES (Jun 5, 2021)

I hope you have a healthy foaling soon!


----------



## Taz (Jun 5, 2021)

MBENES said:


> I hope you have a healthy foaling soon!


Thank you!


----------



## Willow Flats (Jun 5, 2021)

Taz- I've been checking in on you every day. It has got to be soon!!!


----------



## Taz (Jun 6, 2021)

I hope so! She had a bit more udder last night and spent the better part of 2 hours laying down early this morning. I have no idea what's going on but haven't given up. 386 days


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jun 7, 2021)

fingers crossed


----------



## Taz (Jun 8, 2021)

Thank you!
So for a bit of a twist I'm pretty sure she has lice. I found eggs in her best friends mane yesterday....YUCK!! Everyone else is getting powdered today but I can't do Izzy in case she is pregnant. I put some baby oil on her last night and she wasn't as itchy, I'm going to cover her in it this morning and wash it off in an hour and hope that helps. The idea is they get smothered with the oil, we'll see if it works. Her not udder is still not going down and I'm still doing 1/2 hour checks at night and not giving up. I'm either getting used to not sleeping much or I'm so tired I think I'm doing OK, LOL,


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Jun 8, 2021)

I had to deal with lice and a mare in foal once. I bathed her in apple cider vinegar and let it sit for 10 minutes. That helped a lot.


----------



## Taz (Jun 8, 2021)

elizabeth.conder said:


> I had to deal with lice and a mare in foal once. I bathed her in apple cider vinegar and let it sit for 10 minutes. That helped a lot.


Awesome! Thanks!


----------



## Taz (Jun 11, 2021)

Just for anyone who's wondering.....
391 days, yes I'm still on watch at night, probably out of my mind but sticking with it in case
Not udder was a little bigger this morning but goes down some during the day again
She's cranky(for her), even chasing her last foal away from the gate at bring in, he can normally do no wrong
MerMaeve where are the pictures and story about Stormy?


----------



## Willow Flats (Jun 11, 2021)

Been wondering, thank you for the update!


----------



## Taz (Jun 12, 2021)

Feel free to ask, I'm trying not to whine too much


----------



## MerMaeve (Jun 12, 2021)

Taz said:


> Just for anyone who's wondering.....
> 391 days, yes I'm still on watch at night, probably out of my mind but sticking with it in case
> Not udder was a little bigger this morning but goes down some during the day again
> She's cranky(for her), even chasing her last foal away from the gate at bring in, he can normally do no wrong
> MerMaeve where are the pictures and story about Stormy?


Sorry, I've been so busy! I'll try to get to it this weekend....


----------



## Taz (Jun 12, 2021)

MerMaeve said:


> Sorry, I've been so busy! I'll try to get to it this weekend....


Yay!!


----------



## MBENES (Jun 12, 2021)

Thinking of you and hoping your ordeal will be over soon. You are a role model for me, but I sure hope Consuelo doesn't take so long to foal!


----------



## Taz (Jun 13, 2021)

Thank you, I hope there really is a foal and everything's OK.
How's Consuelo doing?


----------



## Taz (Jun 13, 2021)

Well, mostly anyone around here who's willing to hold still long enough for me to vent about Izzy looks at me like I'm crazy for still being on watch, I'm sure a lot of you do too I just can't see it LOL!! A couple weeks ago I turned my alarm off unintentionally and slept for a couple of hours, when I woke up it looked like there was a dead foal in her stall. I said a few choice words and then went out to deal with it. Thankfully it wasn't, it was a pee spot that looked even in person like a dead foal. It was unreal, right size, 4 legs, head, neck, everything was there and laid out just right. Well, after that I have two alarms set so I can't sleep through it or turn both off instead of hitting the snooze. She's still doing nothing to speak of in the udder department but her belly changes shape every now and then, either off to the side to some degree or like this morning when she looks more narrow again. Since I've done something for the lice she is much quieter at night but still a bit of pacing now and then and the odd bite at her belly(not a scratch). Time will tell.....


----------



## Jodie (Jun 13, 2021)

Oh my goodness Taz that would have been so scary! Thinking of you and hoping Izzy gives you a definite yes or no soon!


----------



## Taz (Jun 13, 2021)

I'm still hoping for a YES but I'm sorta crazy right now.......
How are you doing Jodie?


----------



## MerMaeve (Jun 13, 2021)

ugh, I feel for you, Taz! Hoping she IS in foal so all the lost sleep is worth it!


----------



## Jodie (Jun 14, 2021)

Taz said:


> I'm still hoping for a YES but I'm sorta crazy right now.......
> How are you doing Jodie?


I am doing well thank you. Still a little sad that Rosie didn’t end up having a foal, especially after 2 ultrasounds, plenty of signs and changes, and countless sleepless nights! But she is happy and healthy so that’s the main thing


----------



## Taz (Jun 14, 2021)

Ya, I don't know what happened there.... How's it going with your yearling( I guess 2 year old now)?


----------



## Jodie (Jun 14, 2021)

Me neither! It was a very strange situation that’s for sure! She’s doing great thank you, super intelligent and growing really well after the poor start she had in life.


----------



## Taz (Jun 14, 2021)

She's so cute. I guess you're not taking any more trips to auctions? Maybe pick up a pregnant mini????? They don't take up a lot of room you know.....


----------



## Jodie (Jun 14, 2021)

Thank you! Hahaha if I want to get a divorce then that would likely be a sure fire way to make it happen lol but...never say never


----------



## Taz (Jun 14, 2021)

Haha, too bad your husbands a keeper. You never know what might show up though


----------



## Jodie (Jun 14, 2021)

Taz said:


> Haha, too bad your husbands a keeper. You never know what might show up though


Yes he has been wonderful, especially as I told him I would rescue one horse and one pony, and REALLY didn’t stick to that even a little bit  he secretly enjoys them all. I would have really loved a baby though, but everything happens for a reason I suppose!


----------



## MBENES (Jun 14, 2021)

Taz said:


> Thank you, I hope there really is a foal and everything's OK.
> How's Consuelo doing?


She's fine so far, but I am hoping we are making progress. Here are the latest pics from yesterday. The udder pic was taken using a mirror. Still nothing but a few drops of clear liquid. What do you think?


----------



## Taz (Jun 15, 2021)

Jodie said:


> Yes he has been wonderful, especially as I told him I would rescue one horse and one pony, and REALLY didn’t stick to that even a little bit  he secretly enjoys them all. I would have really loved a baby though, but everything happens for a reason I suppose!


I really wish you'd had one. I try to tell myself things happen for a reason, I'm just not normally sure what it is. I have a feeling you'll have a baby at some point, maybe once your youngest is older.


----------



## Taz (Jun 15, 2021)

MBENES said:


> She's fine so far, but I am hoping we are making progress. Here are the latest pics from yesterday. The udder pic was taken using a mirror. Still nothing but a few drops of clear liquid. What do you think?


It looks like you still have some more time. Her udder should fill more and it doesn't look like she's dropped at all yet. I hope you're still getting some sleep?


----------



## Taz (Jun 15, 2021)

I saw Izzy do something last night that I haven't seen since before she was super itchy. She stopped eating, swished, bit her belly, tossed her head a few times then did it all again three more times then slept. I'm back to hoping but still worried that there is a problem. Whoever invented pregnant mares had a sick sense of humor.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jun 17, 2021)

I take my hat off to ya Taz  Are you thinking that there may be a problem ? ( just reading your post above)


----------



## Taz (Jun 17, 2021)

I'm not thinking much at all anymore, LOL!!
I'm still watching and wondering yes or no, too scared not to watch in case it's yes. She's not doing anything to make me think there's a problem but the reason I've read about for them going really long is a problem with the placenta that makes the foal develop slowly. That doesn't bother me but I worry about a foal getting big and causing a problem or it being a red bag. Both of which of course are a reason for me to keep watching in case. Every time I think no way, stop being stupid and go to sleep she does something that makes me think maybe and it's back to watching. The good news is it won't be too much longer before she can't be


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Jun 18, 2021)

Taz said:


> I'm not thinking much at all anymore, LOL!!
> I'm still watching and wondering yes or no, too scared not to watch in case it's yes. She's not doing anything to make me think there's a problem but the reason I've read about for them going really long is a problem with the placenta that makes the foal develop slowly. That doesn't bother me but I worry about a foal getting big and causing a problem or it being a red bag. Both of which of course are a reason for me to keep watching in case. Every time I think no way, stop being stupid and go to sleep she does something that makes me think maybe and it's back to watching. The good news is it won't be too much longer before she can't be



What day is Izzy at, Taz ?


----------



## Taz (Jun 18, 2021)

398 LMAO!!!!!!


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Jun 18, 2021)

Wow. Absolutely amazing. 
And how have you been doing sleep wise ? Not too tired ?


----------



## Taz (Jun 18, 2021)

I'm actually doing OK. I've gotten used to it, some days are better than others and I won't say I don't hate the sound of my alarm but it's really not too bad now, it was worse in the beginning. Oh, and if it means anything, Izzy has stopped shaking her whole body and is only shaking her head and neck now.


----------



## MBENES (Jun 18, 2021)

When I can't see Consuelo on the baby cam at 3am and decide I have to hike out to the barn to check on her, you are my inspiration.


----------



## Taz (Jun 18, 2021)

I'm glad it helps! Good for you going out to check ❤


----------



## Taz (Jun 22, 2021)

Well, she's at day 402. I was getting to the point of thinking it's all in my head but I felt some movement last night. She's been doing a bit more side biting and not being comfortable at night but not giving any more hints than that. Of course the very few things I can find about mares who go this long isn't making me happy. Big foal, red bag, weak foal, gi and renal problems. This really needs to end soon.....in a good way please!!!!!


----------



## JFNM miniatures (Jun 22, 2021)

Taz, if you feel something is wrong, then listen to your feeling. Is there some way you can contact a vet to let them know ? I know you said earlier your vet won't do ultrasounds on minis, but.... maybe try a external ultrasound if the vet agrees to do it. I know it has a reputation of not being as accurate as internal, but you still have chances to see something. IMO, you should really let a vet know, for the mare's sake, yours and the foal's.


----------



## Jodie (Jun 22, 2021)

You may have answered this before earlier in the thread, but is there any possible way she could have been bred at a later date? I agree you should listen to your feeling and get her checked if possible. Thinking of you and hoping for a great outcome really soon!


----------



## Cayuse (Jun 22, 2021)

I'm going to throw this out there, is she getting a soy based feed? I've heard some mares can go out of whack hormonally on soy, bagging up etc. and looking in foal when it's actually just the feed causing an imbalance. I've had no experience with this just passing on what I've heard/read. Hope you get a resolution one way or the other soon so you can relax and sleep!


----------



## Taz (Jun 22, 2021)

JFNM miniatures said:


> Taz, if you feel something is wrong, then listen to your feeling. Is there some way you can contact a vet to let them know ? I know you said earlier your vet won't do ultrasounds on minis, but.... maybe try a external ultrasound if the vet agrees to do it. I know it has a reputation of not being as accurate as internal, but you still have chances to see something. IMO, you should really let a vet know, for the mare's sake, yours and the foal's.


My vet saw her a couple of weeks ago and I talked to him last week. He says as long as she is acting normally leave her alone. I could get someone else to do an external ultrasound in a couple of weeks when they can fit it in(they also said if she's doing fine leave her alone) but that wouldn't be able to determine any problems with a foal only maybe size (or if it's there). The only thing to do other than wait would be to induce and that is worse than waiting since you don't know if the foal really is cooked yet and they almost never are in position so that has to be done where they can do a cesarean. So basically I'm watching and worrying but have some good vets who know what's going on and think I should just wait it out but can all get here in 30 - 45 mins.




Jodie said:


> You may have answered this before earlier in the thread, but is there any possible way she could have been bred at a later date? I agree you should listen to your feeling and get her checked if possible. Thinking of you and hoping for a great outcome really soon!


Anything is possible. I think it's very unlikely that he could have done anything later since he was already 6 1/2 weeks post gelding and I think everything he had was already gone by the time she would have come back in and she didn't show back in and he wasn't interested that I saw but at this point ??????




Cayuse said:


> I'm going to throw this out there, is she getting a soy based feed? I've heard some mares can go out of whack hormonally on soy, bagging up etc. and looking in foal when it's actually just the feed causing an imbalance. I've had no experience with this just passing on what I've heard/read. Hope you get a resolution one way or the other soon so you can relax and sleep!


It's a good thought but unfortunately she isn't. I think I'm stuck watching and worrying for a bit longer, I'll survive it, I'm being whiny today.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Jun 22, 2021)

I know it’s been a really long foal watch. Is there anyway to have a vet do an external ultrasound sooner? I’ve actually had VERY good experiences with an external. See if she is in fact in foal. If she is go from there. If she is not, you don’t have to keep worrying. 402 is a very very long time for a mini. Not sure I’ve heard of a mini going that long. 6.5 weeks post gelding is starting to stretch it. I don’t think he would have been successful much later.


----------



## Taz (Jun 22, 2021)

The one other horse vet in the area isn't taking any new clients right now. I could only get her out for an emergency. Izzy's doing fine, eating like a little pig, I think I have to stick it out and wait a bit more.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jun 23, 2021)

Ive also never heard of one going this long either. If this was me , Id be at the stage of "Wanting to know" ( hellooooo sleeeep)

Taz, Ive witnessed many threads on preg mares over the years. Theres been a couple I've wanted to throw my keyboard thru the computer screen. Owners of pregnant mares that have been so blasé about their mares pregnancies. One in particular with a mare that was so overweight she could not actually deliver the foal. She was warned and didn't listen & then got nasty when her mare and foal didn't make it.

Reason I have written the above is because I really want you to know what an amazing job you are doing  You are attentive, caring & doing everything you can to get this foal safely on the ground. And most of all , this is all on sleep deprivation. I know you are most likely exhausted but keep going , your doing awesome


----------



## Taz (Jun 23, 2021)

Ryan Johnson said:


> Ive also never heard of one going this long either. If this was me , Id be at the stage of "Wanting to know" ( hellooooo sleeeep)
> 
> Taz, Ive witnessed many threads on preg mares over the years. Theres been a couple I've wanted to throw my keyboard thru the computer screen. Owners of pregnant mares that have been so blasé about their mares pregnancies. One in particular with a mare that was so overweight she could not actually deliver the foal. She was warned and didn't listen & then got nasty when her mare and foal didn't make it.
> 
> Reason I have written the above is because I really want you to know what an amazing job you are doing  You are attentive, caring & doing everything you can to get this foal safely on the ground. And most of all , this is all on sleep deprivation. I know you are most likely exhausted but keep going , your doing awesome



Thank you. Yes, I really want to know and sleep would be amazing, I just have to wait a bit longer. Who knows, maybe she'll have a foal while I'm waiting


----------



## Pitter Patter (Jun 23, 2021)

Oh Taz, I'm sorry. I hope there is some resolution soon for your sake (and Izzy's). Wish we could help watch your cameras so you can get some much needed rest! You have been so great when I was waiting for Jasper to make his appearance. Couldn't have done it safely without you! Hang in there and please let me and anyone else here know what we can do to help. Bit of a helpless feeling from here!


----------



## Taz (Jun 24, 2021)

Pitter Patter said:


> Oh Taz, I'm sorry. I hope there is some resolution soon for your sake (and Izzy's). Wish we could help watch your cameras so you can get some much needed rest! You have been so great when I was waiting for Jasper to make his appearance. Couldn't have done it safely without you! Hang in there and please let me and anyone else here know what we can do to help. Bit of a helpless feeling from here!



Thank you.


----------



## MBENES (Jul 1, 2021)

thinking of you Taz, and hoping for a happy outcome.


----------



## Taz (Jul 1, 2021)

Thank you! The vet had a cancellation so I got moved up. Her ultrasound isn't great but she saw bright white shapes. She said the only thing that shows bright white is bone and since Izzy doesn't have any there she thinks it's a foal. Nice to have it confirmed, I've felt and seen foal movement a few times over the last week and a half. She said she looks good, leave her alone. She wasn't worried about a too big foal so that's nice to hear. She also said she has another mini go 14 months a few weeks ago and had a healthy baby. Izzy's not quite there yet .
How's everyone else on foal watch holding up?!?


----------



## Willow Flats (Jul 1, 2021)

Wow Taz! I was thinking you just might have to name this foal Mystery! Or maybe Patience! Or Hope! You have definitely had to have all of that to keep on this journey. Hoping for a perfect foal soon.


----------



## Taz (Jul 1, 2021)

Thank you. I was thinking stubborn was the best description of how I've been, I like yours better


----------



## MBENES (Jul 4, 2021)

Taz said:


> Thank you! The vet had a cancellation so I got moved up. Her ultrasound isn't great but she saw bright white shapes. She said the only thing that shows bright white is bone and since Izzy doesn't have any there she thinks it's a foal. Nice to have it confirmed, I've felt and seen foal movement a few times over the last week and a half. She said she looks good, leave her alone. She wasn't worried about a too big foal so that's nice to hear. She also said she has another mini go 14 months a few weeks ago and had a healthy baby. Izzy's not quite there yet .
> How's everyone else on foal watch holding up?!?


That is GREAT news! I hope your wait will soon be over. Consuelo finally produced milk instead of water on July 2, so I am hopeful it won't be too much longer. My granddaughter returns home to Hawaii on July 15th, and we had expected a foal on the ground before she arrived Jun 21, so I hope she does not have to go home disappointed. We had 10 ducklings hatch, but it won't compare with a foal. With the family reunion after an 18 month long separation, Consuelo is getting lots of loving attention and she eats it up.


----------



## Taz (Jul 4, 2021)

Oh that's wonderful, I hope your wait is almost over!! It would be so nice if she foals before your granddaughter goes home. Pictures of these little guys are good but don't compare to them in person. Is her pH dropping at all?


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jul 6, 2021)

Great news Taz 

Lets hope she is putting the finishing touches on


----------



## Taz (Jul 7, 2021)

Soon would be really nice. I don't care if it's the ugliest foal to ever hit the ground as long as they are both healthy


----------



## Taz (Jul 8, 2021)

Well, two weeks ago she was looking uncomfortable at night and I didn't think she would last more than a couple more days. Now she's looking completely comfortable and like she's going to keep going indefinitely.


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jul 8, 2021)

I'm about to start foal watch here , so she really needs to giddy up 

I will not let my mare foal before yours does , wouldn't be fair !!

This mare I have due at the end of Sept, is going off too stud to foal. TB mare who we have been trying to get in foal for the last 3 years. I have two possibly preg minis, I just need to get the vet to take some bloods. I was leaning towards a Yes last year ( ended up being a NO) This year Im going the opp and saying No. One would be due around xmas day, the Other around Australia Day (25/1) 

Fingers crossed for you Taz


----------



## Taz (Jul 9, 2021)

I'll pass the message along to Izzy that you said to hurry it up .
It's Diva that's in foal for end of Sept? Is this her first one? I hope you're not sending her out to foal because you're expecting a problem? Let me know the results from the vet, good luck!


----------



## MBENES (Jul 21, 2021)

I have been quiet lately, with a long postponed family reunion to keep me busy. Everyone has returned home now, and Consuelo is still pregnant. She is producing milk now, not clear fluid, and I test the PH daily, It is a little over 7 now, as best I can tell. My 12 year old granddaughter was so disappointed that she didn't get to see the foal. She lives a 15 hr plane ride away, so won't be visiting again until next June. Taz, I hope your wait is almost over and we will be sharing baby photos soon.


----------



## Taz (Jul 22, 2021)

I'm so sorry your granddaughter is going to miss the foal! You'll have to send her lots of pictures and videos.
That's so exciting that Consuelo has milk starting! Do you have any recent pictures? Watch carefully, she could change that pH fast on you. 
I would love to be sharing baby pictures with you soon but who knows with Izzy. The vet thought she was looking at a foal and I think I've seen and felt foal movement but it's been so long. I'm still watching her at night, I won't give up till it's been so long there is absolutely so way she is pregnant, the longer it goes the more unwilling I am to sleep, if she really is I think she will need help more than ever at this point.
Looking for forward to seeing your little one, best of luck to all three of you!


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Jul 22, 2021)

Would love to see some pics too 

Hows Izzy looking Taz ?


----------



## MBENES (Jul 23, 2021)

Taz said:


> I'm so sorry your granddaughter is going to miss the foal! You'll have to send her lots of pictures and videos.
> That's so exciting that Consuelo has milk starting! Do you have any recent pictures? Watch carefully, she could change that pH fast on you.
> I would love to be sharing baby pictures with you soon but who knows with Izzy. The vet thought she was looking at a foal and I think I've seen and felt foal movement but it's been so long. I'm still watching her at night, I won't give up till it's been so long there is absolutely so way she is pregnant, the longer it goes the more unwilling I am to sleep, if she really is I think she will need help more than ever at this point.
> Looking for forward to seeing your little one, best of luck to all three of you!


I have finally realized that I have the wrong test strips and ordered another type that should provide more accuracy. They will arrive tomorrow. I "think" we are getting close. Here is a picture of her yesterday. The udder picture I took was too blurry. On a funny note, my granddaughter was somewhat outraged on behalf of Consuelo's dignity, when she saw a folder of her private parts which I have for comparison. When I confessed that I was posting them online, she was shocked.


----------



## Taz (Jul 24, 2021)

Ryan Johnson said:


> Would love to see some pics too
> 
> Hows Izzy looking Taz ?



Izzy hasn't had any real changes, her belly changes shape every now and then, that's about it. Hungry all the time, a little cranky and doesn't want to be touched much. 



MBENES said:


> I have finally realized that I have the wrong test strips and ordered another type that should provide more accuracy. They will arrive tomorrow. I "think" we are getting close. Here is a picture of her yesterday. The udder picture I took was too blurry. On a funny note, my granddaughter was somewhat outraged on behalf of Consuelo's dignity, when she saw a folder of her private parts which I have for comparison. When I confessed that I was posting them online, she was shocked. View attachment 44122



Haha! I kind of agree with your granddaughter.  Please let us know what the new test strips say?


----------



## MerMaeve (Aug 18, 2021)

@Taz, how is Izzy doing? Still assumed pregnant?


----------



## Taz (Aug 18, 2021)

Hey MerMaeve, yes, if you can believe it, still assumed pregnant. She's starting to show some small signs that she might finally be getting closer. I've been feeling foal movement every few days so that gives me a break for a bit from worrying how things are going in there. Everyone who wants to is welcome to cross their fingers, hope, pray, whatever works for you, that things will turn out OK.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Aug 19, 2021)

How many days would she be now? ANY chance a different stallion got to her? Even shared a fence or a yearling colt?


----------



## Taz (Aug 19, 2021)

There was a colt born mid July last year, don't think he could have done it, and a 2 yr old who was gelded in Oct but wasn't near her unless he went over a 4ft no climb fence twice and then back with no one seeing. I'm just waiting it out and being very tired.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Aug 19, 2021)

Totally understand, it is a tough situation. How long was the colt around her? I have heard of colts as young as 6 months breeding a mare successfully. I have also heard of stallions breeding through the fence. Is that a possibility with your fence? If you are feeling foal movement, that is pretty indicative of a foal lol. By my calculation, she would be 460 days if your stallion that was gelded was the sire.


----------



## MerMaeve (Aug 19, 2021)

Wow, I feel for you, Taz! Praying for a healthy baby, and soon!


----------



## Taz (Aug 19, 2021)

She was across one fence from the stallion, it was electric and they both stayed away, that is also her kid and they both have shown no interest even when she was in standing heat for 2 months when 'dad' (I think) moved in. The colt has been with her since he was 2 weeks old(gelded a month ago). He showed no interest in mares until about 2 months ago and she wasn't his 'pick'. He would go over to her and she'd kick him. Did I mention we are both kind of cranky? All I know is I'm feeling foal movement and watching till something happens, hopefully soon.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Sep 4, 2021)

Any change in your girl?


----------



## Taz (Sep 5, 2021)

She's elongating this week, still feeling foal movement. Still looking forward to being able to sleep again


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Oct 4, 2021)

How’s your girl coming?


----------



## Laura&HerMinis (Oct 15, 2021)

@Taz, any change in your mare Izzy?


----------



## Taz (Oct 16, 2021)

No much going on, maybe a slight change in her udder the last couple of days. She is very slightly elongated and soft around the base of her tail. Still has some time to go if I'm right, or I could be completely out of my mind and she's not in foal, mostly no one believes me. Does anyone want me to write a small essay or are you up to date on what might be going on?


----------



## Laura&HerMinis (Oct 16, 2021)

Taz said:


> No much going on, maybe a slight change in her udder the last couple of days. She is very slightly elongated and soft around the base of her tail. Still has some time to go if I'm right, or I could be completely out of my mind and she's not in foal, mostly no one believes me. Does anyone want me to write a small essay or are you up to date on what might be going on?


I'm sort of up to date, but it might be helpful to add a small essay for everyone who is new  Maybe writing an essay will keep you busy and help you to not worry for a while haha


----------



## Taz (Oct 17, 2021)

OK  
So here's the latest on what I think(hope!!) is going on. I am the only one who has felt any foal movement so I'm reserving the option that I'm completely wrong and there is no foal.....I do think there is though.

Obviously she didn't foal in April/May like I though she was going to. I finally by Sept. gave in and have been sleeping again, she's still on camera and I'm checking a few times a night but not what I was doing, man is it nice to sleep! I have been feeling quiet foal movement all summer, this is the sleepiest foal imaginable! She had a positive external ultrasound at the end of June, has had skimmed milk most of the summer, hasn't noticeably come into season at all. With that I'm still going with is in foal. So, the working theory right now is that she didn't hold the foal from last May, either absorbed or aborted outside during the day and I didn't see anything. I had 4 minis in one paddock and two in another. Izzy, Spirit, Tilly and Finn together and Joey and Oliver together in a second. Pay attention now or you might get confused. Oliver is Izzy's 2018 colt, she came pregnant in 2017. When Oliver was born it was just Izzy and 2 jenny aunts for him as company. He needed someone to play with badly so I found Joey(born June 1,2015) at a local rescue, they were best friends at first sight. When Oliver wasn't able to be gelding by the time he was a year I split him and Joey into one paddock and Izzy and the donkeys into another, no oops babies thank you. Fast forward to end of March 2020, Spirit and Tilly(in foal with Finn) moved in. Spirit was gelded a week later, first week of April. There were some problems with the donkeys and Izzy ended up on her own so I had her next to Spirit and Tilly for a while and then she went out with them in mid May(6 1/2 weeks after gelding). Spirit bred her for 3 days and that was the beginning of me thinking she was in foal(read the start of the thread). Oliver was finally able to be gelded in Oct. 2020 and I tried to get the two groups into one paddock in Dec. That didn't go very well and I split them again by the end of Dec. thinking it would be permanent. Early Jan. Joey died very suddenly and unexpectedly so Oliver went back in with the group permanently. So, as of right now I think she was bred in Dec. 2020, waiting to see if I'm right. I'm mostly going with the idea of when you eliminate the impossible, whatever you have left, no matter how improbable is the truth. The improbable but possible are:
1) Finn(Tillys colt, July 2020) bred her at a very young age. This is my last choice.
2) Oliver bred her in Dec(8 weeks after gelding) even though they have always been in stalls and normally paddocks right next to each other and never shown and interest. This is mostly tied with above as my last choice.
3) Joey was a rig and bred her in Dec. I never saw any studdy behaviour from him but he was mostly just out with Oliver. He was very aggressively dominant when I put him in with the group, no one was hurt but her did a lot of herding them around and would grab them by the top of their necks and hold on until they gave. He knew Izzy and they were comfortable together and didn't do any of that with her but I did see him getting off her once. He had a blanket on and I was at the wrong angle to see if his landing gear was down, didn't think twice about it at the time except to say give me a break. That would have put a breeding in the third week of Dec. I think. I would really like it if this happened.

Did you get all that? If I'm right and she's in foal I'm hoping to get more of an idea of who dad is with colour and conformation. This is crazy but kind of typical for around here, let me know what you think,LOL!!


----------



## Cayuse (Oct 17, 2021)

I think I got it! Sounds like an old "who-dunnit" mystery with "Joey the Rig" in the starring role and Oliver as best supporting actor. My fingers are crossed that there's a foal coming soon.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Oct 17, 2021)

Sounds entirely possible to me. Thing is, if you are feeling a foal, there is no way she can’t be in foal haha. Just a matter of figuring out who and when. By that idea, sounds like she may have been bred about the same time as Belle.


----------



## Taz (Oct 18, 2021)

What is with winter breeding?!?
Thank you for that, I have a lot of people here not believing I'm feeling a foal and it makes me question myself all the time. It's a really quiet little bugger.


----------



## Kelly (Oct 18, 2021)

Taz said:


> What is with winter breeding?!?



It’s just waaaay too hot in the summer to feel frisky!! ….. AND nobody wants to be pregnant in the middle of summer then have a baby hanging on ya all the time!!


----------



## Willow Flats (Oct 18, 2021)

"That would have put a breeding in the third week of Dec. I think. I would really like it if this happened."

Taz~ What I think is that you very much want a foal and I hope that is the happy ending of this mystery!


----------



## Taz (Oct 18, 2021)

Willow Flats said:


> "That would have put a breeding in the third week of Dec. I think. I would really like it if this happened."
> 
> Taz~ What I think is that you very much want a foal and I hope that is the happy ending of this mystery!



Haha! I don't actually want a foal but I do want a foal from this mare and it would be an added bonus if dad was the little one I lost. We'll see, not the end of the world if I'm wrong


----------



## HersheyMint (Oct 18, 2021)

Not a dull moment for you. Who's my daddy? 
I'm hoping it will be Joey. A great remembrance for you.


----------



## Taz (Nov 21, 2021)

For everyone who's wondering, Izzy is starting to work on an udder. It's small but going up and down every day and slowly getting a little bigger but already has milk. Maybe she's trying for a Christmas baby and me in a rubber room?


----------



## Pitter Patter (Nov 21, 2021)

Hey, Taz! You know you are not alone! Been waiting on Pepper to foal since we figured out she was pregnant in August! She looks less pregnant now, but still very obvious. I never thought a winter baby would be in the works! Yikes. I don't know as though she's ever going to have this one! Maybe she's holding out for Spring but I don't know HOW. She is huge now, but she and your Izzy share similar udder development at about the same time. Maybe you are towards the end of your wait! (I hope!)


----------



## Taz (Nov 21, 2021)

Pitter Patter said:


> Hey, Taz! You know you are not alone! Been waiting on Pepper to foal since we figured out she was pregnant in August! She looks less pregnant now, but still very obvious. I never thought a winter baby would be in the works! Yikes. I don't know as though she's ever going to have this one! Maybe she's holding out for Spring but I don't know HOW. She is huge now, but she and your Izzy share similar udder development at about the same time. Maybe you are towards the end of your wait! (I hope!)


Thanks! I've only been waiting since April. LMAO!!!! Not the way you're supposed to do foal watch. I have a feeling Pepper might be going to make you wait for a while more but I hope I'm wrong and she foals soon!!


----------



## Ryan Johnson (Nov 22, 2021)

Sounds like there's a race on between you both to see who foals first


----------



## Taz (Nov 23, 2021)

Ryan Johnson said:


> Sounds like there's a race on between you both to see who foals first


Or how long we can be on foal watch!!


----------



## Willow Flats (Nov 23, 2021)

Taz- You have already earned the honor of longest foal watch  and have had me so curious with the, "is she or isn't she" from the start. Really hoping to log on one day and see a photo of a foal so I can say "well whadda you know!"


----------



## Taz (Nov 25, 2021)

edited ..... NO BABY YET, old pictures and a question.







Willow Flats said:


> Taz- You have already earned the honor of longest foal watch  and have had me so curious with the, "is she or isn't she" from the start. Really hoping to log on one day and see a photo of a foal so I can say "well whadda you know!"


Haha! I actually took a break for a while, back at it now. I have a 'bad' feeling PitterPatter might catch up or maybe pass me, we'll see 
I have so many people I'm really hoping I can send a picture to and say 'I told you so!'(not here). I hope you get to log in and see a picture too!!

Question for the colour gurus. Do pintos tend to throw their pattern or something close to it? I can see how Finn got his from his dad, nothing like his moms. This is the only picture I have of Joey as a baby, he was completely white(grey) by the time I got him. Oh, he also had 2 blue eyes, is that just the blaze or is it genetic? Of course there's always the chance of no colour and then I'm back to guessing only on temperament and conformation.

Compared to Finn 

I have to get a newer picture of him, he ended up pintaloosa. He has lots of tarnish that's come out in his mane and the black on his 1/4'sas well as his muzzle getting white patches, maybe going to go white like dad's.
I haven't felt anything from the foal for at least a couple of weeks but got something last night, yay! Of course if I say that around here I get, unhun, I thought she was supposed to foal in April, or we'll see. Sigh....


----------



## Kelly (Nov 25, 2021)

Oh mannnnnn! When I first opened this post and saw the baby I was so excited for you Taz! But then I saw 2 babies and thought twins …. then I read and realized that baby isn’t here yet


----------



## Willow Flats (Nov 25, 2021)

I opened the post and said "well, whadda ya know!!!! Then I started reading. Lol sorry I can't help you with color. And yes, more photos of Finn please!


----------



## Taz (Nov 25, 2021)

I'm so sorry! I won't do that again.


----------



## elizabeth.conder (Nov 25, 2021)

Lol I’m the third for thinking oh man finally! Not yet anway…

In regards to your question. There are several specific pinto patterns like tobiano, splash, frame, and Sabino. Those genes usually follow similar patterns. When a horse gets multiple genes it can be a bit more irregular.


----------



## Taz (Nov 25, 2021)

I will put it in capital letters at the top of the post when she does....
Not yet, I'm thinking not until 2nd week of Dec, maybe 3rd, if she sticks near the timing of her last foal, it's not like she gives a whole lot of indicators. I'm still thinking positive and saying when not if. 

That's what I thought but it was worth asking, thanks. Who dad is might stay a mystery.....


----------

