# Draft (Quarter) vs Arabian



## MajorClementine (Aug 26, 2011)

My stud is more the draft body type and my filly the arabian. Obviously one harness won't fit both of them. Do I just need a separate back pad for them or a whole different harness for each one? Which type have you guys found to be a good fit for the draft type. The one I have now fits my filly well but I'm afraid it will pinch on my stud.


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## susanne (Aug 26, 2011)

Have you taken all measurements requested by harness manufacturers? This is more telling than subjective terms such as "draft" or "arabian." For example, my gelding, Mingus, is 38 inches with his hooves trimmed, yet he is very fine-boned, so his measurements barely put him into the B-size category. (His head gives him away, however...) In addition, his back is rather short, so he really needs a mix of harness sizes.

Ozark Mountain and most harness retailers have sizing charts on their sites, so measure according to their instructions. A taller, lighter boned mini can measure similarly to a shorter, stockier one.

Another thing you might want to consider, even if they fit into the same harness, is how much adjusting you want to do every time you harness. Depending upon your budget, you might want to use the same harness for training but want each to have their own when it comes to their "real world" harnesses.

Then again, don't try to make do with an ill-fitting harness for the sake of training -- you want your horse to be comfortable from the start so that he/she enjoys driving as much as you do!


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## RhineStone (Aug 26, 2011)

You can change the shape of the saddle (that has a tree) by carefully pushing it in or out depending on how you need it, BUT you don't want to be having to do that every time you drive a horse. That would probably weaken the saddle.

And Susanne is right about not wanting to change the harness up every time you drive. I have one gelding that I really did not get going well because he had an A size head, but needed a bigger caveson and browband than the A size mare we have. Instead of changing that every time I wanted to drive him, I just didn't work with him much, and the finer mare got the work. Looking back, I wish I had another whole bridle for him and I probably would have gotten him finished then.

That being said, most good harness makers can get you a few parts so you can make one harness work. Maybe you need just a little bit bigger girth or backstrap. But again, to fool around changing that everytime is a pain.

Myrna


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## LazyRanch (Aug 29, 2011)

Being a rider converting to driving, I didn't quite get the "fill your tack room with harness" and "one for each horse." My *very* bad, and I apologize to any and all to whom I said, "Is that *really* necessary?" Especially hard for me to get because both my guys are 33.5" and, as I mentioned I was new to driving - I mean, one saddle will pretty much fit most horses, right?

I think, we have similar horses: my one horse is 33.5, but looks like a 16.2 Thoroughbred if you sit on the ground and have no point of size reference. The other is 33.5 but a 15 hand bulldog Quarter Horse under the same conditions.

So we had one harness going between two horses. Took the whole shebang to my coach, we carefully fitted it to the wee beastie, drove beautifully in the coach's cart (didn't have my own yet), took the shebang home and carefully harnessed the second horse and had complete chaos. Nothing looked right, nothing fit. Same height horses, utter disaster.

Next step was to try to fit the original horse the way it was - another 30 minutes of fiddling. Yes, after I did it a few times - and got better at harnessing in general - things got better. BUT it meant I actually had to _think and schedule_ my drives so the last horse driven was next horse driven - only had to adjust harness once every drive. And, if I changed the rotation, a bunch of drive time was taken up with fiddling with the harness.

Also, we now have two carts: one easy entry, and one HyperBike, each requiring a couple little adjustments to each horse/harness. I got quick release tugs for my one horse, then found that because he is so slightly built, the buckle strap for them is too short for the other horse.

From a relatively new driver viewpoint, it is SO worth getting one harness for each body. You spend more time driving, less fiddling, safer, more sure fit on each horse (partially because you aren't hurrying on a winter's impending sundown to get that last drive in.


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## LazyRanch (Aug 29, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> I have one gelding that I really did not get going well because he had an A size head, but needed a bigger caveson and browband than the A size mare we have. Instead of changing that every time I wanted to drive him, I just didn't work with him much, and the finer mare got the work. Looking back, I wish I had another whole bridle for him and I probably would have gotten him finished then.
> 
> Myrna


Boy, is the bridle not a killer? I have one A that can wear almost any bridle, and with few adjustments, they all look like they were designed for him. The second A, I spent nearly a year trying to get a bridle to fit - it was made to measurements from a wonderful harness maker and just wasn't a happening deal. I finally had to get another bridle with a whole different setup - cavesson on a separate hanger, blinders on a different arrangement, and no box cheeks. That worked out much better simply because there were narrower straps, more adjustments, etc. Now I have a nice bridle for him, and the Quarter looking horse has a nicer bridle too.

I found myself in your situation, Myrna, where all that adjusting and fiddling resulted in some workouts not being done. It was my coach who pushed me into a second bridle, and I am glad I did it.


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## LazyRanch (Aug 29, 2011)

susanne said:


> Have you taken all measurements requested by harness manufacturers? This is more telling than subjective terms such as "draft" or "arabian." For example, my gelding, Mingus, is 38 inches with his hooves trimmed, yet he is very fine-boned, so his measurements barely put him into the B-size category. (His head gives him away, however...) In addition, his back is rather short, so he really needs a mix of harness sizes.
> 
> Then again, don't try to make do with an ill-fitting harness for the sake of training -- you want your horse to be comfortable from the start so that he/she enjoys driving as much as you do!


Even with measurements, it can be tricky. I sent measurements - which I agonized over - AND felt good about, since I'd had several custom bridles for my big horses over the years. The bridle came *exactly to measure*, and still would not fit the horse correctly. The reasons:

The measurement from corner of the horse's mouth, over the poll, down to corner on other side, didn't take into account the fact that his head is WIDE, not long. So even though the measurement was correct, and even though the brow band was the same length as that which we had been using, the cheek pieces would never settle and the brow band would either pucker or pull, despite adjusting upper and lower cheek buckles. Either the blinkers were too high, or the bit too low or some combo in between, and the cavesson was the same story. Plus, the box cheeks were simply too long for his short, fat little face.

I have had several people tell me "if the bit is right, the cavesson will hang correctly" but I have now become a firm believer in having the cavesson on its own hanger. And I have learned the great mini lesson: if you cannot get the bridle to fit correctly, and your coach cannot either, nor can any of the clinicians you go to, get a new bridle. I am just glad it only took me one new bridle!

And as you say - it is well worth the money spent to have him enjoy driving as much as I do!


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## RhineStone (Aug 30, 2011)

Box keepers are VERY hard to adjust with some minis. After having one box keeper bridle, I will only have open keepers now. Box keepers are cheaper to construct, though, which is why you see them so often on mini harnesses.

I talked with David Freedman about what part of the harness he felt needed to fit absolutely perfectly. I had assumed he would say the saddle, but alas he immediately stated the bridle. He also said that making a mini harness was THE most difficult harness he ever made, and that is from one of the best harness makers in the world! To me, that statement means that we do our horses no service in outfitting them with out-of-the-box harnesses. If the best harness maker on this continent had problems getting a mini harness to fit properly, why on earth would a cheap one fit?




There is only so much room to work with on a mini. David said that 1/4" matters greatly in a mini harness.

When I ordered my show bridle, I took apart one of my better fitting bridles, measured each piece, and then asked for more or less material in certain places. I am pretty happy with how that bridle fits, although I would still love to tweak it in a couple of places. Yes, taking actual measurements off the horse has resulted in bridles not fitting as well I needed. Fitting bridles properly is an art (see above paragraph) that requires time, talent, and treasure.

Yes, the caveson needs its own hangers, with keepers that attach to the cheek pieces so the blinkers don't gape. That is the real reason for a caveson on a driving bridle.

Myrna


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## LazyRanch (Aug 30, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> Box keepers are VERY hard to adjust with some minis. After having one box keeper bridle, I will only have open keepers now. Box keepers are cheaper to construct, though, which is why you see them so often on mini harnesses.
> 
> I talked with David Freedman about what part of the harness he felt needed to fit absolutely perfectly. I had assumed he would say the saddle, but alas he immediately stated the bridle.
> 
> ...


Myrna, you always have these gems of info! We got our original harness used - and it is more of a pleasure harness than for combined driving. It does have breeching, but both breeching and breast collar are flat, broad straps and the saddle has no tree. But, it fit both horses well - even the bridle fit well. So, I didn't feel bad taking measurements from it, especially from the browband and throatlatch. I have no idea why the first bridle was so difficult. I will say that after struggling to make it fit on PJ, I put it on Rascal and it's beautiful! Took about 30 seconds to fit and looks great. I really do think it is the box keepers - which we were told were a must. Well, that particular "must" is not likely to happen again.

I am not surprised about Mr. Freedman's comment. I have learned if the bridle doesn't fit, you might as well put the whole harness back in the box box. But I am intrigued about your comment regarding the cavesson's purpose. Thank you!


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