# Hoof & farrier question/problem - need opinions



## Cupcake (Dec 7, 2012)

I had the same farrier until he recently moved so I was forced to find someone new. Not only was I not very impressed with his work but he also charged more than the previous one. I scheduled a new appointment with him and he didn't make it, rescheduled, didn't make it again and rescheduled again, plus informed me the day of the appointment that he "has done a few minis now and will charge $15 more" . Sorry but that's not the way to do business. Doing a "few minis" in the past 5 weeks doesn't make you an expert, especially not when I look at the way her feet look 5 weeks after theyve been done by you. (sorry for the rant, but just annoyed at this point, this guy would then cost me $30 more than the previous farrier who I was very happy with - needless to say I'm looking for someone new- again)

Now, I took pictures of my girl's feet today, 5 weeks since last trim. Farrier told me last time that her right hind foot is curling under (?), too narrow at the bottom.

I've noticed her sometimes twisting that foot when walking and also when turning she tends to be lazy on it, rather leaving it on the ground and just letting it turn as she goes (if that makes any sense)

Also, her front feet. I've been preaching to the farrier that they need to be shorter at the heel, and all i hear is that he doesnt wanna cut them too short and hurt her foot etc... it looks like she's on platforms and in no way do they look like a horse's hoof should! They are also very deep, now I discovered thrush in one front and have been treating her for the past 3 days but I need her trimmed!

Am I the one who sees it wrong? And if I'm right, how do you get through to a farrier and explain to them how they need to be trimmed. I can't imagine a big horse with her feet!

Here ate the pictures:

Back hoof (curling)












Hind legs






Front hoof






Same front hoof, hard to see the depth, but it's DEEP and you can see a little thrush in there






Front


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 7, 2012)

Yes, her heels are much too tall. Perhaps you could find a picture of an ideal hoof trim/angle and show it to him. He will not be able to get all that heel off in one trim. You are right to be on top of this.


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## chandab (Dec 7, 2012)

The rears don't look too bad for angles, but long all the way around. the fronts are way too long in the heel, giving them a clubby appearance; its going to take time to fix that, as you can't take off too much at one time.

I have one that has a tendency to get clubby, its taken time but the farrier is getting her back on track, but we have to stay "aggressive" with her heels to keep them in check.


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## Cupcake (Dec 7, 2012)

Thank you, every picture I've seen of well trimmed minis looked exactly like a big horse's hoof. I've had her trimmed regularly since I got her in February but never to the point where I was happy with it. Is there anything I can do in between trims to help?


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## BSharpRanch (Dec 7, 2012)

Where are you located? Her fronts are waaay to long at the heels. And her hinds are long all around. I am in AZ and all I do is minis. Unless you are in love with this farrier, or he's the only one available, I would be looking for someone else. Just my opinion.


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## wildoak (Dec 7, 2012)

Yep, way too long... don't know why some farriers are afraid to take the heel down on minis and yet I can't get them to leave enough heel on my big mares. I don't remember where in Texas you are... might be able to offer some farrier suggestions depending on where you are located.

Jan


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## Cupcake (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm an hour north of Austin


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## Margo_C-T (Dec 8, 2012)

Anyone who would leave a horse's hooves looking like those doesn't deserve to be called a farrier. I will hold my tongue and not write what I would have to say to such a person...

You are SO right to be concerned. As others have said, that could not be corrected 'all at once', but should begin to be addressed ASAP! I'd advise doing everything possible to locate someone who actually knows what they are doing...ask other horse owners who you know are knowledgeable and whose horses' feet look PROPERLY done, ask at the feed stores, ask around at area vets...do whatever it takes to find someone else! Frankly, I cannot BELIEVE how often I've seen this very issue...that is, of so-called 'professionals'who leave those 'stovepipe' feet on miniatures...it makes me CRAZY!

Are you able to haul her to a 'real' farrier, if need be? That might be one solution.

Best wishes in dealing with this...

Margo


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 8, 2012)

Agree with everyone- that person is not fit to be called a farrier- he is an idiot!

Do not waste your money on him again, I honestly think you could do a better job yourself- maybe if you cannot find a good farrier near enough to you you could pay one of the farriers on here, who do know what they are doing, to come to you and show you how. It is a little daunting at first but once you are actually filing, especially with an expert helping you, you will find it gets easier.


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## Just_Rena (Dec 8, 2012)

On FaceBook there is a group called Texas Trail Riding, join and ask about a farrier near you. There will be plenty to chose from.


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## Cupcake (Dec 8, 2012)

As I said its been 5 weeks since the last trim so yes, the feet should be longer but I'm worried about the shape and I agree, i have yet to find a farrier that knows how to trim a mini. I don't know anyone else with minis in my area and from what I hear most mini owners that are around here trim their own horses. I much rather have an expert do it! I was more thinking, should I rasp them down a little in between trims, since her feet do grow pretty fast. As much as I need a farrier for her I also need him/her to know what they're doing on my big horse. And I refuse to pay anyone almost $100 for an hour worth of work and get these (pictures) results! I'm frustrated and desperate at this point!


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## MindyLee (Dec 8, 2012)

Too bad Im too far away cause your in need of someone who KNOWS what they are doing!

Your poor horses feet look bad. Sorry, BUT he sucks and shouldnt ever trim a mini again if thats how the end resaults look like!

HERE show him these!


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## MindyLee (Dec 8, 2012)

I am a mini equine/goat farrier and if my end resault looked like that, I would never trim again! I never went to school or class to trim, and defently no professional by no means, BUT highly experianced and call myself knowleagable. Ive been trimming since 2004 and trim over 200 hoses/donkeys/mules/goats for my county and never left a animal looking like that. I have trimmed clubbed feet on national horses, that the end resault, the owner couldnt tell her horse even was clubby. I work on a lot of rolled hoofs, founder, bad infected whiteline feet, clubbed, twisted, and normal feet.

I now have been trimming ponies/minis for a professional and very well known farrier who is a professional carriage driver now for 2 yrs and she says Im the best thing for her horses feet since her! Her back is bad and has been looking for someone to trim for 5 yrs. She said she has fired everyone since looking and She gave me the last chance. She said she was gearing to can me asap since she had no faith in me as I never went to school. Within 5 miniutes with her jumpy bad foot mare, she was sold! She couldnt believe how well I handled her mare and well I started to trim and do angles. I got the job done and her "test" mare was the best she looked in a long time!

Since then, I now trim 16 ponies/minis for her and treats my like part of the family while there! Just like her, most of my clients say/do the same. I get told all the time by old and new at how great I am with their animals and its awesome to have a farrier who not only shows up on time, but usally a few minutes early and never rescheduals unless my cliants do. I also while there answer any and all questions they have and also most times look in mouths to inform about dental care as well to help out! I love all my farrier cliants horses and treat them as if they are my own. Kiss's too!!!






OH plus my prices are super cheap and even do trades on stuff instead of $! Thats a plus for everyone too!


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## Cupcake (Dec 8, 2012)

Can you come to my house, like today? LOL


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## BSharpRanch (Dec 8, 2012)

The reason that most farriers have trouble with mini feet is that when you go to farrier school they preach, "NEVER touch the heels or frog"! That is because most not all big horses grown hardly any heel or frog and all toe. Minis are the other way around as a rule. And that is why big horse farriers tend to have issue with taking too much heel.


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## Lil Eowyn (Dec 8, 2012)

Yea, defiantly wrong. If you mini becomes lame or something worse happens, you should charge him and get a new farrier if possible. I trim my own horses hooves and I'm a freak if they're not done right so I make sure they're perfect lol Here's a pic of their hooves I just finished (This is the closest pic I could find of their hooves cause I didn't go out and take a pic of their hooves XD)

http://s9.postimage.org/ihoi5zllb/IMG_1064.jpg and http://s18.postimage.org/r5xyjdh1l/IMG_1063.jpg

So I think you should switch farriers, or you could even learn to do them yourself =) (If you have enough energy and your back can take it lol I can't do 5 horses is a row or I'll be collapsed of the floors )


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## MindyLee (Dec 8, 2012)

The back thing is the worse!

Most times I do 5-12 horse per day X2 a week.

One farm has 18-25 minis and YES I do all of them in one day, and the following weekend, I do that persons 45-65 goats all in one day!

CRAZY I am!

BUT I take my time and a lunch with lots of back meds!

LOL!!!


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## rubyviewminis (Dec 8, 2012)

I've gotten in so much trouble on here for dissing someone's LOUSY *farrier*. I and many others have had the exact same problem as you. I finally with help and online research just started doing my own. I file because I cannot handle a nipper, but I check and touch up trims every two to three weeks. Waiting 5 to 8 weeks is not good, by then their hooves are overgrown and start to flare or curl under. Left this long as you can see in the pictures Mindylee posted, makes the entire bone structure from coffin bone up, point straight down and the joints in her leg cannot work as they should. This is painful to the horse, and overgrowth causes not only thrush but fungus in the heel bulbs.

It can be very simple, scrape away all chalky white excess sole, and file or cut off excess wall and frog that is above the sole. Where we live they have hard hard hooves and frog so I soak 30 to 60 minutes and then I can see all the little *plaques* of excess sole around the frog and just pop them off. Anything you can get off her hooves will help a little, I use goat nippers to take off frog. www.barefoothorse.com will help you a lot. Even if you never touch your horses hooves, it will give you an understanding to know if the person you are paying is doing a decent job. That site may be intimidating at first, believe me! But just keep reading, it all comes together, and for me, the pictures REALLY helped. I also emailed pictures of my horses hooves to people online who helped and told me where, what, how much, and what I was doing right, and what I still needed to do. I had a little gelding with hooves like your horse, white. I couldn't figure out where his sole was, it was all white and I was scared to death of taking too much off. The best advice I got was to take pictures, from all angles, and the bottom, whole body with legs too and use those to learn. You would be surprised how much you see in your pictures that you didn't notice while cleaning or filing! I keep a photo journal for each horse, I also compare them to pictures from that site or Pete Ramey's book written for the horse owner. His book is the best.

You took the first step, and your pictures are very good. Your horses are lucky to have you make sure they get the care they need!

Let me just add that I have a bad back, so I use a little stool to trim, I also have really bad arthritis in my right hand and muscle missing from my left upper back and shoulder. I can still trim! If necessary one can trim front hooves one day, then back hooves the next. There is always a way. I keep a net of hay in front of them while trimming.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 8, 2012)

I've done all my horses for over twenty- no,it's coming up over thirty now...ARGH!- years now. I was taught by a really good farrier who stood over six foot and just could not face my Minis! I quite happily use nippers and goat shears as I was taught to use them- is there a school near you that could give you lessons in this? It is really a matter of looking at X-rays, horses hooves, cross sections etc until you are confident with what is going on inside the hoof, then you will feel easier about tackling the problems yourself.

Nowadays I just could not afford to have anyone do my horses as I have too many, and having seen a few bad hooves at shows I am really glad I do not have to rely on anyone but myself. I am not allowed, by law, to do anyone else's horses, our farriers have to be properly qualified, but I am OK to do my own.


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## ohmt (Dec 8, 2012)

Goodness, how do some people call themselves farriers?! I only do my own horses' hooves and was taught by my grandfather who taught himself, but I can honestly say I would never trim a horse that badly. It looks so painful! I hope you get them fixed soon and can learn yourself. I really like the barefoot trimming guides as well so i would start there.

Also, i doubt it is calling out a bad farrier that gets anyone in trouble here-it is the responses to the OPs (sometimes children trying to learn). This thread is very helpful and educational though


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## Hosscrazy (Dec 8, 2012)

I think you've gotten some very good advice here - my recommendation is to get a new farrier immediately. If you post on horseshoes.com, I'm sure you'll be able to find a qualified farrier in your area. Or I would imagine your feedstore or vet has someone they can recommend. Definitely change who you are using - this is not a farrier!

Best wishes,

Liz N.


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## Cupcake (Dec 8, 2012)

Thank you to all of you! I found a farrier ad and emailed back and forth asking about experience with minis etc.

I additionally asked a breeder an hour away from me if she knew someone. She has friends with minis near where I live and emailed me with a recommendation of a good one - turns out to be the one I had emailed! 10 years of experience with minis so I'm hoping this is the one! AND - its a female! So let's see if a girl can fix what the guys couldn't!




she'll be here Monday and I will take "after" pics (I know it won't be "fixed" in one session but I'm sure I'll see a difference!

Regarding doing them myself - I rather have a trained professional and pay them for it. I do so much myself already I could keep 10 people busy with all of it. LOL


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## chandab (Dec 8, 2012)

I too would rather pay a good farrier to trim my horses, but numbers and circumstance lead me to learn to do some of it myself. [i do have a good farrier, he takes care of special issues and the saddle horses; and we take turns on the rest of the herd.] So, pay close attention when she is there, if you like her, continue to pay close attention and learn what is involved in trimming hooves. Just in case someday you find yourself without a good farrier, whether temporary situation or long-term.


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## suemahree (Dec 8, 2012)

Bsharpranch.....do you ever come to Nebraska? I have rescued 2 mini mares that have horrible feet. Farriers out here dont want to work on minis here. If I posted a pic of the worst one could you give me any suggestions, I have found one farrier who would look at them and see what he could do but doesn't have equipment for minis.


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## Lil Eowyn (Dec 8, 2012)

And forgot to mention my horses are all big horses besides one XD I don't call myself a farrier, but If I trim horses hooves--then what am I? lol


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## chandab (Dec 8, 2012)

suemahree said:


> Bsharpranch.....do you ever come to Nebraska? I have rescued 2 mini mares that have horrible feet. Farriers out here dont want to work on minis here. If I posted a pic of the worst one could you give me any suggestions, I have found one farrier who would look at them and see what he could do but doesn't have equipment for minis.


My farrier uses his regular tools on my minis. His full-size nippers, his full-size rasp. He's trimmed everything from from 2 month old babies upto my 38" mares with the same tools. The rules are the same for all sizes of horses; trim to balance.


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## BSharpRanch (Dec 8, 2012)

Suemahree, No, I do not go to Nebraska. However send me some pics pm and I'll give you some help. I understand how frustrating it can be. I had a wonderful farrier when I was a teenager. He shod racehorses in NY in the summer and show horses in AZ in the winter. Made it hard for me because the people he let take over for the summer were just not him! I complained when he came back so he allowed me to apprentice and learn the following two winters. I've been doing horses ever since! Started to specialize in minis when a big horse broke my pelvis. My email is [email protected]


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## rubyviewminis (Dec 9, 2012)

So glad you found a resource, and a farrier!!! I would give a lot to have a competent farrier here for mine! I am so happy for you!

Ditto Chandab.

Yes, same size tools on mini's, unless you can afford a mini hoof stand. I dream at night of a mini lift, *sigh*

Yes, indeed I did get in trouble for insulting someone's friend who trimmed their horses hooves badly. I deserved it too. Sometimes I just type too fast and don't take the time to make sure I am tactful and hopefully helpful, without being rude or blunt. It is so easy to misinterpret intentions in writing.


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## MindyLee (Dec 9, 2012)

I use mini nippers (10") and have a mini hoof stand (homemade). Standard size rasp and all my knives are double edged. As for the lift, it would be awesome for good minis who stand still, but most of my clients horses are too jumpy and the lift would be very unsafe for me and the horse.

1/2 the goat owners have milk stands and thats fine untill you try to trim in them, then my arm get banged up and bad bruises, so I prefure to trim goats without it.

In my farrier bag:

4 sets of 10" Diamond nippers

1 8" wire cutter

3 hoof picks

5 sets of different sized doubled edged knives

1 frog knife

2 rasps

2 different sized twitch clamps

bottle of coppertox

1 lead rope

2 sets of leather gloves

roll of white bandage tape (for my fingers)

bussiness cards

In the truck:

farrier chaps

6 different sized halters (pony-mini-goat)

mini hoof stand

nicker snack treats

1st aid kit (human/horse)

water

oh and I wear stealtoed shoes!


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## wingnut (Dec 9, 2012)

Stories and pictures like these make me send up another thanks to heaven for my farrier, who I literally "stumbled" across when I went to look at a yearling they had for sale. The farrier's wife was selling the last of her minis. When they met, he knew nothing about trimming feet but in an effort to help her, learned how and together they serve all kinds of clients, both big and small. I would have had no idea what was a good or bad trim in those early months back in 2009. *I* have learned a lot through their expertise. Good luck with the new farrier...keep us posted on how it goes!


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## Sandee (Dec 9, 2012)

Yeah, why is it that no matter how often we say these are "horses" treat them that way, it's still impossible to get a good (meaning knowledgable) vet and farrier, oh and add dentist to that list!!!


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## Cupcake (Dec 10, 2012)

Tadaa! Here are the after pics and can I just say I LOVE my new farrier! This is the FIRST time anyone took this much off her feet and I can see the bottom of her foot without a flashlight and there's no ECHO!!! Not only has she been doing minis for 10 years but she's also a mini owner herself and knowledgeable about anything horse - I think I hit the jackpot!

She said she'll take (even more!) off next time as the tendons need time to adjust, she also left more frog this time to stimulate the frog growth. But it's a difference between nicht and day and I think she "shrunk" at least an inch!


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## Just_Rena (Dec 10, 2012)

Cupcake said:


> Tadaa! Here are the after pics and can I just say I LOVE my new farrier! This is the FIRST time anyone took this much off her feet and I can see the bottom of her foot without a flashlight and there's no ECHO!!! Not only has she been doing minis for 10 years but she's also a mini owner herself and knowledgeable about anything horse - I think I hit the jackpot!
> 
> She said she'll take (even more!) off next time as the tendons need time to adjust, she also left more frog this time to stimulate the frog growth. But it's a difference between nicht and day and I think she "shrunk" at least an inch!


nice


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## chandab (Dec 10, 2012)

Much better. If you like her, treat her well, hate to lose a good farrier.


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## Cupcake (Dec 10, 2012)

chandab said:


> Much better. If you like her, treat her well, hate to lose a good farrier.


I told her she's not allowed to MOVE or QUIT! As long as I own horse's and that will be for a loooong time! LOL


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## chandab (Dec 10, 2012)

Cupcake said:


> I told her she's not allowed to MOVE or QUIT! As long as I own horse's and that will be for a loooong time! LOL


I'd still be very observant and learn all you can about hoof care and trimming. You never know when something might come up (like she gets hurt or something and can't get to you for a bit).


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## MindyLee (Dec 10, 2012)

MUCH BETTER!!!

Congrats on finding her!

Im sooo happy for you and ur mini!


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## disneyhorse (Dec 10, 2012)

That looks better!


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## Marsha Cassada (Dec 11, 2012)

Hurrah!


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## Matt73 (Dec 11, 2012)

What a relief! Very nice



. Those before pics were scary looking....


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