# LYN - HOW DID IT GO YESTERDAY?



## Miniv (Sep 29, 2005)

Wasn't Wednesday the day that you were meeting with INVESTIGATORS?

I was thinking of you and hoping all went well.

MA


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Come on Lyn...are you allowed to say?????[/SIZE]


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## Charlotte (Sep 29, 2005)

Sure have been wondering

Charlotte


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## lyn_j (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Yes I am allowed to say. It isnt over yet though. The investigator came and was here almost 3 hours. She showed me the specifics of the complaints and the posts that were refered to. I answered each one and pulled the whole thread for her including the ones that were pulled regarding that issue.... The people that made the complaints are daily here on the forum and have faxed her more info from as late as last monday. She said she ws surprised that I posted and suggested that I added fuel to the fire which, looking back. I guess I did. She will report to the board her findings and the answers to her questions. That board will then decide wether to get the Nursing board and the Vet Board involved. I did learn that if you cut on an animal not your own, ie ear cropping or gelding or get into any oriface of the animal or prescribe or administer any medications including puppy shots to any animal not your own that is a felony. I was not guilty of any of those. The general board will decide if itgoes further and if it does it will also go to the common wealth attourney to see if it goes to court.[/SIZE]

Excerpts that suited their purpose were faxed to the investigator and she was glad to see the whole threads as it will give backround to the board.

Since my nursing license expired that board is probably not interested in the "practicing outside the scope of the license" issue.

I had told the investigator that I was not going to post about this but since some asked I have.

She could not give me any idea what to write and how to add a disclaimer that will protect us. She said if it goes before the other boards they may or may not say what to do differently.

To my forum family, do not make any recomendations about breeding, feeding, vetting worming or even wether a horse has dwarf characteristics or not as these are the threads they pulled as far as practicing vet medicine without a license.

Their vet has said these things that I have comented on threaten the lives of inocent horses. IF they get upset with any of you for any reason they can use your posts against you in a complaint.

Yes, I know you are reading this too so here is my disclaimer, I was not asked to keep this confidential by the investigator, the papers given to me included the charges and the specifics and I was told that I can do anything I like with them. It is my choice not to post them all here so that you the complaintants wont be embarassed later nor would you be able to come back against me and say that I didnt give all the info.

This is a public forum , open to the whole world including the not so nice people (my personal opinion which I am legally entitled to). We cant stop them from coming here to stalk we can only cover ourselves and what we say by using a disclaimer similar to the one in my signature.

If anyone wants advice or information that you think might be questioned you can e mail me privately. They cant stop that.

Lyn


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## Miniv (Sep 29, 2005)

That means there are hundreds and thousands of what could be considered

violations on here!

HORSE PUCKY!

MA


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## lyn_j (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Thats right ..... it all depends on who decides to use it for their ill gotten gains.Even if the board finds this all rediculous and throws it out, it has cost lots of government money paying the boards and investigators and everyone else as well as mental anguish, wild fluctuations in my bloodsugar and blood pressure, and agrivations in general.[/SIZE]

Lyn


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Surely if they make more than a couple of unfounded complaints they will be charged with wasting the time and money of government officials?? Can you not make a counter complaint against them for defamation of character?? This is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!![/SIZE]

This is MY opinion.....if you do not like it, sue me


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## justjinx (Sep 29, 2005)

Lyn, I am so sorry you are going through this! I must have missed the original post! I know I really appreciate your input as well as others on new info. I have learned so much here! If we have to watch what we say no one will be able to help anyone anymore---what a shame!





jennifer


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## Shari (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Lyn This is really sad.[/SIZE]

So what you are telling us, is we can send pictures to each other and say ah..pretty horse.

But we can't help each other if something goes wrong.

So those Nasty Trolls causing you problems, want horses that need help but can't get help in time to die?

So Owners that can't get the Vet out in time have to sit there and watch their horses suffer or die?

So in that case, these Trolls that are indeed causing problems will be committing animal abuse by not letting knowledgeable people help. Gee, sounds like they are commiting long distance murder and don't care about anyone but themselves and how much harm they can cause. Hay Trolls, does it make you feel better to cause people harm, to let animals suffer or die,, does it give you a sense of power.

Yes I am being flippent.

I hope someone does this to you, and you get caught in the act, and you see how it feels to watch your animal die because you can't ask for help. See how you like it.

Lyn again I am sorry you have to go through this.

Marylou I am sorry but I am mad enough to spit nails!!! I did tone it down a lot!


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## Jess P (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]This is horrible! I am so sorry Lyn![/SIZE]


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## Cathy_H (Sep 29, 2005)

> do not make any recomendations about breeding, feeding, vetting worming or even wether a horse has dwarf characteristics or not as these are the threads they pulled


Well geez - exactly what would we have left to discuss & share?

Weather - - na can't recommend leaving a horse out at night - it may get a snotty nose & die - - sue the forum member for trying to be a meterologist

Color - - No - the horse could change color later & we could be sued for emotional attachment to its color there too.

Personality problems - - Na - That sweet natured mare may get stung in the rump about the time its owner bends over, sending her into the water trough where she drowns - sue city again.

Lead rope/ halter/ cart style suggestions- - Nope that is out also. Someones horse may feel inferior in the show ring if another horses equipment out shines theirs.. $$$$ again for suggesting the wrong color........................ Someone better alert the other forums - they be next...



................ Someone needs to volunteer in a soup kitchen as they have too much time on their hands. Pathetic!


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 29, 2005)

*Well, doesn't that just suck peanut butter! Is there any way of having this forum a "closed" forum to where they have to sign in and agree to a disclaimer of some sorts? *

*
I am so sorry they are putting you through this! *

*
Fran*


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 29, 2005)

Well Lyn, you already know what I think about all of this....and I am counting to 20,000,000 before I post something.


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## lyn_j (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]While we who live here on this forum understand the rediculousness of these charges, they still can be filed if someone has a mind and time to do it. There is no way to stop people from reading this site and even if they had to log in to read they can create a false identity and get it...... There is no way to stop anyone from coming here and apparently no way to stop nare-do-wells from abusing the information given here.[/SIZE]

Dont you all worry and feel like we are taking this all lying down. We just cant do anything about it right now. The day Will come however when it will all be brought to light and delt with.








My trust is in the Lord and our lawyer





Im not afraid.

This is America, land of the free and home of the brave.... my parents came here from war torn Yugoslavia to be able to say what they want and pray when they want and I believe that I will again have the right to express my opinions good or bad on any subject even the currently taboo one some day!(does anyone else here the God Bless America song being played by a band in their ears????)

Lyn


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## JeanS (Sep 29, 2005)

Lyn, I am so sorry you are going thru this.


I am also very sorry for the Newbies, and any of us who have found wisdom and help on this board.






> breeding, feeding, vetting worming or even wether a horse has dwarf characteristics or not as these are the threads they pulled as far as practicing vet medicine without a license.



Now IMO anyone who buys a mini to breed should be told what to expect, Feeding IMO needs to be taylored to the size of the horse, Vetting/Farrier It is important to use one who knows Minis, and they are not always available in the persons area but are happy to come to LB and find information on treating different conditions.


And you all know that a dwarf has specific characteristics (as been published in mags. written by a non vet)


Do the people bothering you want everyone to breed without regard to quality or health of a perfectly inocent animal? What about the Neeby who loves their new little girl and is crushed when the Mare dies because of a bad birth? 


Lyn did they happen to say how or if we are protected when a Vet sends us to a Mini farm (for mis. reasons) but he/she is not physically with us but we are doing what he asks?


Jean


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## choklitbean (Sep 29, 2005)

> or even wether a horse has dwarf characteristics or not


Well so much for my next question. What a load of garbage.

I've been on boards where desperate people got great advice and were extremely thankful for the kind help of others who have gone through similar experiences. I can't believe they have laws banning people from sharing advice, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to take it. When we raised goats there were no vets around here who knew much about them so the VETS would SEND people to my mother because she had WAAAAAY more experience than any of them. To be honest I would rather take the advice of someone who has had twenty years in the business than some young vet straight out of college.


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## lyn_j (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Just a reminder ....it HAS NOT been determined that I have broken any laws it has only been ALLEGED by two individuals. The Board and Commonwealth attny will decide if I have broken any laws or if this was a frivolous complaint. Once the determinations have been made then I think we can breathe easier about what we post. In the meantime, if you have a problem or question that you need asked, chose a forum member that you trust and send a PM. That is the only place these people cant get.[/SIZE]

Lyn


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## ~Palomino~ (Sep 29, 2005)

*[SIZE=14pt]The last I checked, this is America, and it is a free country, and we are entidled to our OWN opinoins, and we dont have to accept others oppinions or not! What those lurkers did REALLY PO's me of!!! This is a forum were we help each others with our own opinions, and NO-ONE has to listen to others, if they do, it is there choice, I am just speechless, i dont know what to say, other than what it the H**l are these people thinking????? I just dont even see how this is a case, I am just 13(almost 14) so I dont know much about this kind of stuff, but its commen sense! You never said that you have to do this, and threten her if she didnt, if that person did it, then it was her choice, WRONG or right, no one has to do what ANYONE says, it is all our own opinos, and we dont need to allways right IMO this is a free country, and alot of the stuff we say, is our own opinion! I am so fustrated! RRRRRRRR like i said I am speechless, So i wish you the best of luck!![/SIZE]*

-Gage-


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## wishful (Sep 29, 2005)

Stuff like this makes me so mad!!!!!!! seems like "our land of the free" is olny so for those that want to pray to anything from the mailbox to the ceramic shoe. (but we cant say the pleadge of alligence in public because it says "under God"), to those who will sue because they are to stupid to hold on to their own cup of coffee(did anybody else read about that,she won millions), and now if I understand correctly we have some dipstick blaming someone else for something they had no control over.


I often come here to get help from people with more experience then me and support from people who can understand what I might be going threw at the time.


It's a free land unless you are ,like myself,a christain and a hard working honest person. When is a legal system going to start treating crooks like the crimianls they are???


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## Hosscrazy (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]If we are not allowed to have discussions regarding the issues that you mentioned, Lyn, then how are people supposed to learn about their horses? Personally, I cannot learn if I live in a vacuum.[/SIZE]


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## ~Palomino~ (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]What are breeders saposed to do when a person that is brand new to horses buys a mini? If they cant even tell them how much to feed, without getting in trouble, how is ANYONE saposed to learn about there horses, and know how to take care of them?????[/SIZE]

RRRRRR


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## small herd (Sep 29, 2005)

I don't usually give advice but right now I would like to advise the pathetic people who are attacking you to GET A LIFE !!! JMO


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## lyn_j (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]An explanation to the newbies, (well sort of).[/SIZE]

There was a hot topic discussed here on the forum a little more than a year ago which is now know of as "THat which is not spoken OF". A few of us had a negative opinion of that issue and freely voiced that. The people involved in said topic took offense, lied to us and about us, and then filed a law suit against us. Because that suit has not been ruled on yet over a year later, we are not allowed to speak of "That which is not spoken of" lest we make matters worse. These same people sent us threatening letters in the past warning us that they would do more and so they have. The results are these complaints against me.

Most of the rest of you are probably safe posting what you want to and need to. If you have questions that I think I can help will I will PM you if that is ok. The only bad part about that is that you will be the only one who sees it and others cant also learn from the thread.

Please know that this is also upsetting to Mary Lou who pours her lifes blood into this forum to benefit the miniature horse world. We appreciate her more than we can ever express for having the knowledge and ability to build this site for us and to the Internet guru you know who you are who keeps it going and to Mona and Carol for keeping us in line. Thank you all. Your time has not been wasted.

Lyn


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## keeperofthehorses (Sep 29, 2005)

lyn_j said:


> [SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]To my forum family, do not make any recomendations about breeding, feeding, vetting worming or even wether a horse has dwarf characteristics or not as these are the threads they pulled as far as practicing vet medicine without a license.
> 
> Their vet has said these things that I have comented on threaten the lives of inocent horses. IF they get upset with any of you for any reason they can use your posts against you in a complaint.
> 
> ...


[SIZE=14pt]*HooooEeeee.... I had to eat some Special Dark Chocolate before posting. *[/SIZE]

Edit... Edit.... Edit.... Deep Breaths.

OK, first I want to say Lyn, honey, we've got your back.

It is so unfair that you are being through this, and that you have obviously been personally targeted.

I wonder how many horses' lives have been saved because of this board and the members like Lyn. One of mine for sure. Had it not been for LB, I would not have been able to get Sassy to the vet on time. Maybe we should start a new thread and try to get some sort of count?

I vow to continue to exercise my RIGHT to FREE SPEECH, here on this board, and everywhere I go. And this nonsense will NOT scare me away, and I will have the <ahem> GUTS to not be a lurking TROLL.

Yikes, need more chocolate.


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## Jill (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Okay okay okay...[/SIZE]

I really just read the first couple posts. I'm burning mad. It infuriates me that someone wants to dictate to us what we can say and act as if we aren't entitled to share our opinions!!! WHEN WE ARE ASKED FOR OUR OPINIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?!

The one thing I'm thankful for is that I don't know the ___________ (and I'm thinking of the last name, but also there are other words that would fit) in person or have to put up with their BS on a one on one level. What miserable people they must be.

It just goes to show my Dad is right, there are more horses a**es in the world than there are horses!!!!!!!!


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## ChrystalPaths (Sep 29, 2005)

Ok bring it on. Thems fightin words. Last time I looked this was America and we have the freedom of speech. I will continue to be helpful and supportive to any and all individuals who come here to directly to me for advice or information. I will not change the way I am or who I am for anyone be it legalese or govt or anything. How dare they!

I have and will continue to express myself here, I do add the "I am not a vet, nutritionist etc" but this is a forum and a forum is for INFORMATION!!!

As for the felony bull#@@#.... folks have been doing their own shots for years....gimme a break. That would constitute a felony on the vet selling them too and alot do...what about the companies that sell the vaccines to US.....that's baloney plain and simple.

Hugs Lyn.


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## Just Us N Texas (Sep 29, 2005)

Lyn, please try and see that the board reads these messages. It will prove to them that we are a colony of people that asks and gives advice to each other. It does not mean that advice is taken, just that it was given in the spirit of experience and love for the little horse. Most of us do just that, ask for advice, then take it to our vet and asked that he "rule" on it one way or another!


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## lyn_j (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]The investigator now does. She even has a foroum id. I also printed the threads questioned for her to take to the board. I am hoping they will see this for what it really is and THEM for who they really are.[/SIZE]

Lyn


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## Mercysmom (Sep 29, 2005)

Just Us N Texas said:


> Lyn, please try and see that the board reads these messages.  It will prove to them that we are a colony of people that asks and gives advice to each other.  It does not mean that advice is taken, just that it was given in the spirit of experience and love for the little horse.  Most of us do just that, ask for advice, then take it to our vet and asked that he "rule" on it one way or another!
> 475889[/snapback]
> ​


Well said, and I know that many of us have called our veterinarians based on things we have learned here - examples being dwarfism, respiratory and eye ailments I have consulted my own veterinarian on for her expert advice - we have used her services for years and she has been very good to me and my horses. I know in my experience, sometimes it is good to be able to talk to someone else who has gone through something... even when the end is sad (like my Liberty's demise), there is something to be learned for all of us by sharing.

Since we have foaled a number of mares here over the years and have had some good dystocias, when we brought a colt to Cornell to be gelded and my son was expressing an interest in veterinary medicine, the 4th year veterinary student overseeing my colt's case had told us that we have seen a lot more foalings than she had and she had not had the opportunity to correct them as I have. She told me I was giving my son a valuable education here that they don't see enough in vet school. Granted, that was one student's opinion but I know from what our veterinarian has told us, we have had some interesting stuff go down here over the past 3 years.

Lyn, my support to you. I hope that everything works out in your favor.

Maybe one thing we can do here is to specify if we are not a veterinarian in our posts...AOL had that as part of their terms of service for participating on their message boards.

Denise

Silversong Farm

(definitely not a vet)


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## minisch (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi Lyn-

First I want to say that I'm sorry your put in this situation. It's an ugly situation put on by obviously very sick vindictive people. These people are not the norm.



I have been on this board many years, I "lurk" every day having my morning coffee. Haven't posted much lately as I feel it seems to be a popularity contest.

I just wanted to let you know that we are behind you. This is a forum. Advise is given. Anyone with half a brain knows if you post a question you will get varying responses and recomendations. You are to gather information and make a knowledeable decision on your own. I myself have over 25 years experience with horses and have given advise on this forum..... it is unbelievable to me that I could get in serious trouble for giving advise. What has this world come to. I wish you the best..........


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## lilhorseladie (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]I could just cry. When I found this forum, it was not only people who would sometimes listen, but experience shared. I have asked many questions and received many answers. I have a mind and a vet and with the advice and the other two ingredients, I could make an *informed* decision. Since when is being informed not allowed? If you wrote an editorial in the paper it would be allowed. I have learned about so many wonderful things here. I am sorry that a few sour grapes have to ruin it for the whole bunch. Unlike many, I live in a state with maybe three well known breeders and some who dabble, I need all the education and life experience I can get. I honestly and truely appreciate all help, advice and information I have gained here. I sincerely appreciate all who post and those who post Honestly (Lyn). I also appreciate the fact that we have this forum to come to and the people who work so hard on it. Thanks to all and Lyn-- Go get 'em girl! I pray that those of you causing this trouble will see what it means to others of us on here. I assume that you initially didn't come here to cause trouble, you must have at one time also relished in the help and information given here. Why ruin something over hurt feelings? Please just give it a rest and find another place to go if this one isn't for you. I can't imagine anyone being so bored as to having to read a forum they don't like just to cause trouble. Remember that when you least expect it you may need someone and hopefully it isn't somone you stabbed in the back. [/SIZE]


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## Anne (Sep 29, 2005)

Isn't good to know that so many people know who these people are and what kind of people they are? Mean spirited and foolish is how they appear to me.

Ir's sad that they are here at all.


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## minih (Sep 29, 2005)

For them to find that charges do need to be brought up against you and for this to go to court is a waste of time and money. The courts are already back logged and the real criminals are running around waiting in that long line for their day in court without a care while THIS is going on? Something is drastically wrong. If they should in some way succeed with their mission, the courts will be full of frivolous spiteful suits instead of REAL CRIMES. Personally that is not how I want my tax dollars spent, he said---she said. Assanine. If you don't like what your reading------GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!


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## qtrrae (Sep 29, 2005)

Lyn,

I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. You have always been there and been so supportive and helpful to everyone!

Your 25 years of horse expertise and knowledge has been a godsend for many of the people that are on the forum.

Hugs and prayers for you as you deal with this. Just remember there are a lot of people that care and will be here for you!!

I agree with barnbum and I quote: "Gracious, I think the courts have 2 options: convict us all, or leave us alone!"


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## Miniv (Sep 29, 2005)

qtrrae said:


> I agree with barnbum and I quote:  "Gracious, I think the courts have 2 options: convict us all, or leave us alone!"
> 476021[/snapback]
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I agree too. If Lyn is found guilty of anything here, then there are many of us who should also be investigated.

MA


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## Margaret (Sep 29, 2005)

Well I have to say, the more I read of this, the more I suspect some disgruntled vets, that would like to see more of us running "blindly" to them every time we have a small concern, rather than putting our heads together and solving some of our own problems. Otherwise this really doesent add up very well.


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 29, 2005)

I have been thinking the same thing Margaret. Usually it is vets that object to their work being taken away from them. I know many would rather owners not even give vaccines to their animals. I am fortunate to have a good vet close by that just encourages good health and has taught me so very much. I wou

ld guess that many people will have to refer to books and vet sites for info. if it is against the law to give any vet information to another person. Sad this has happened when intentions were so good.







Margaret said:


> Well I have to say, the more I read of this, the more I suspect some disgruntled vets, that would like to see more of us running "blindly" to them every time we have a small concern, rather than putting our heads together and solving some of our own problems. Otherwise this really doesent add up very well.
> 476037[/snapback]
> ​


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## MInx (Sep 29, 2005)

OK bring it on! I hope the complaintants, investigator and whole world reads this!!

I'm an old lady! My husband is an old man...we don't have a bunch of mini people we hang around with as we live too far from any hubs of mini activity.

My little grand daughter is handicapped, missing one arm, Turners Syndrome and Hypotonia. We bought our minis so she can enjoy the horse world more on HER level! ( feel free to jump on me for relating medical information!)





Our MAIN and almost all information on the care of and enjoyment of Miniature horses for us is through this wonderful forum which includes people from ALL over the world with collectivly hundreds of years of experience!

Many vets in outlaying areas don't deal with minis, nor do farriers etc and spontanious advice on the spot can and does save horses lives!

I for one don't plan to change a bloody thing! What I've learned these past 45 yrs knowing horses, (I'm 64) I plan and will share with anyone I choose! Don't like it? Stay off the forum!

How dare you , any of you challange MY freedom of speach!

I pity you who did this and I pray for a good outcome for Lyn in this ridiculous matter!

Maxine


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## lyn_j (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]The complaints have signatures. I know who the people are and they are NOT vets.[/SIZE]

Lyn


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## smlotsocats (Sep 29, 2005)

Soooo, I guess if we can't speak of, well, really anything, what's the point of a forum? I go to a few other forums for my draft horses and other mini forums and I'm not seeing this problem there, yet. I am so sorry there are such nasty, BORED, people out there that have nothing to do but SPIN TALES! Do we need Bill O'Reilly to make this a NO SPIN ZONE???? I guess that at some point in time these vengeful people will find someone else to pick on and will drift away from here.


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## Buckskin gal (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Lyn, Do you know why they have taken this upon themselves...is there some personal vendetta? Sounds like it is more than one person ...is it a specific group? Of course those of us who aren't in the "know" do wonder what this is all about because you aren't the only person to have given vet type info. [/SIZE]:









lyn_j said:


> [SIZE=14pt]The complaints have signatures. I know who the people are and they are NOT vets.[/SIZE]Lyn
> 
> 476046[/snapback]
> ​


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## lyn_j (Sep 29, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Buckskin gal the answers to your questions are yes , and yes.If anyone wishes the particulars PM me because I wont give that on the open forum .[/SIZE]

Lyn


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## Abby (Sep 29, 2005)

I remember this topic last year. Where the heck are they getting this money to come after people on this forum that disagree with them?

Lyn, I am very sorry that you are being burdened with defending our civil right of free speech. You have many many friends here, you unselfishly share your experience with us so we can take better care of our horses. We all share this love and passion for our minis and we like to help one another. Is this a crime? NO

I think in the end more than one of our constitutional rights will have been violated.

Lee


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## flashsnewmom (Sep 29, 2005)

I am a newbie here and don't know what all of this is over, but I can say that the short time I have been here, I have gotten very good advice and opinions from lots of people. I read all opinions before I make a decision on something. I don't understand how people can be so pathetic especially when we all know this is an OPEN forum and that all we will receive opinions when asked for them. You know this is an open forum and if you are really looking for the advice of a professional, well then go to their place of business and NOT to a public forum where you know you will just get opinions, NOT professional advice. I am so sorry this is happening to you Lyn. I wish you the best!!


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## Sunny (Sep 29, 2005)

I've only read the first page of replies, Lyn, but I'm very sorry you're going through this, too.

What I don't understand in all of this is WHY someone would go to the trouble of laying any sort of charges against a person for comments made on a public forum. I'm referring to this situation in particular, I suppose, but just in general, too. Was the person(s) who started this case against you, Lyn, hurt in any way? What do they stand to gain if they "win"?

I don't get it.


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## Mona (Sep 29, 2005)

Sunny said:


> What do they stand to gain if they "win"?
> 476086[/snapback]
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Just the satisfaction of knowing they have succeeded in "bullying" yet another person. They make me sick!


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## Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too (Sep 29, 2005)

Now before too many of you go off the deep end on the freedom of speech issue, I think you might want to do some investigation as to what is covered under the first amendment and what is not. Although many countries have it, it does not mean one can willy nilly voice whatever thing comes to mind without repercussions. Freedom of speech is not some unlimited gift. You'd be surprised just how "freedom of speech" a term so easily bandied about, may not be what you may have thought it was all this time after at all.

As I said before sharing of information is well within our right to freedom of speech, giving medical/veterinary advice (unless one is a medical professional) is NOT. If someone decides to cross that line then they are implying they will take on whatever responsibility and penalty that comes with it disclaimer or not.

Lyn whether you listen to me or not I think you need to let this die down, have this thread deleted and handle the entire subject off line or by PM. Please don't unwittingly give them any more ammunition to use against you.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 30, 2005)

> Was the person(s) who started this case against you, Lyn, hurt in any way? What do they stand to gain if they "win"?


Judy, that is precisely what the investigator should be looking at and that will give her the answer as to what is really going on here with the added "history" of these individuals on this forum and on other forums where they have also threatened legal action on some of those members as well.


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## tagalong (Sep 30, 2005)

So let's see.... we cannot share our dystocia experiences and perhaps save a life or two. Does outlining what should go in a foaling kit count?? How about red bags?? If you have foaled out over a hundred babies - all that experience counts for **** ?? Forget about resuscitating foals. Screw it - let 'em die. No talk about medications or emergency situations and what to do until the vet arrives... and don't even _think_ about mentioning that you once experienced _>>>insert something that has happened to someone's horse<<< _and this is what happened and what you should expect. In many threads since the beginning of this forum you see the words CALL THE VET when someone has an emergency or seeks advice. CALL THE VET. GET THE VET TO CHECK IT OUT. Someone please tell me what is wrong with _that_. What is wrong with sharing experiences _for the good of the horses _.... and making it very clear you are not a vet and they should be consulted.

And I'll bet the complainers have suggested such things in the past as well. Whatever happened to ...* DO NO HARM*. Cutting off all these discussions will case more harm than it will prevent. *Better hand the complainers the URLs for every other horse message board or email group... they've got a lot of complaining to do to get all of that shut down.*



Yikes.

This situation is unbelievable. And even though I am not a vet... I can figure that out. And as I said - it will do more harm than help. But then.... maybe that was the point...



... and I iz just 2 stoooopid 2 unnerstand why....


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## AJ (Sep 30, 2005)

I put this on a new post - Sample of forum importance - Pass on to investigator

This mare had been at the University hospital for a while , and the doctors did every conceivable test, but could NOT determine why this horse was not eating, lethargic and really dieing in front of their eyes. I posted the symptoms on this forum, and Rita responded. A few of her horses died (vets could not help her) and an autopsy determined a very rare disease common to swine. I passed the information on to the University hospital , where they immediately implimented the medication program provided by Rita. Result, a mare that went home and fully recovered and had a healthy foal, which she sustained during her illness.

Without this forum, this mare and foal would be dead and MORE IMPORTANTLY, there is now a University Hospital in Europe training new doctors that will now be aware and have documented medical material regarding this disease that can kill equines AND also have a CURE for it.


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## yellerroseintx (Sep 30, 2005)

gggrrrrrr I cannot beleive anyone would come after you Lyn..or anyone on this forum!!! When I first signed on..I learned SOOOOOO much from each and every one of you..how DARE someone question that kind of support and how dare someone tarnish the open hearts that shared their own experiences so I can learn.I would have been LOST if not for you and this forum....advice..and I would like to add 'advice' is just that..you take it all in and use what works for your situation..I am not stupid....noone on this forum is stupid, well, maybe a few exceptions ah hem....BUT this forum offers what I could not find anywhere else...and it also offered me support..and a shoulder to cry on when I buried my mare and foal..so...to have someone attack my/our family...is hurtful to each and everyone of us..and especially our horses....because they are why we are here.....


dang...cannot get the type big


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## [email protected] (Sep 30, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Lyn, so sorry you've had to deal with these people and their complaints.[/SIZE]

I was a bit surprised by some of your email, and the types of topics that were used in the complaint - seems pretty broad as to what us 'non professionals' can comment upon and possibly be considering practicing veterinarian medicine!

Scary!


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 30, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Shirley is right. Free Speech is there to protect as well as to be used. It is NOT the freedom to say anything and everything you like without anyone having a comeback. The point is that what Lyn said is the truth, therefore she should be protected under the Freedom of Speech Act. I have seen, and many of you must have seen, Newspapers sued for MILLIONS because one of their editorials has annoyed someone rich enough to sue them. Freedom of Speech only works if you have money, I'm afraid. It does allow you to stand on a soapbox on a street corner and shout about the government without getting shot dead....unless you are Black, or Gay or some other group that has annoyed people rich enough to hire someone to shoot you. If you say something about me which is not true, and injures me, I can sue you. If you are rich and I am not you will be able to take the whole matter so far into the bowels of the legal system that I will not have the money to pursue it, and I will have to let it drop, and you will go unpunished, and I will remain injured. Freedom of Speech is a phrase, nothing more. Do not be so sure the law alone will protect you. I know it will not. Now, that being said, when this whole thing erupted in the first place, the "thing about which we cannot talk" I jumped up and down and _begged_ them to sue me. Seems they are not quite so willing to take on International Law. They dropped the case they were pursuing in Europe, too, and the man involved speaks freely on the Internet about it, in spite of their trying to gag him!!![/SIZE]

This is my opinion, if you do not like it........SUE ME


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## lvponies (Sep 30, 2005)

I was so thankful when I found this forum!! I have learned so much and greatly appreciate those who take the time to help and advise. I would hate it if this forum turned into only a pretty pony show with everyone too afraid to voice their opinions and advice. We all need support at one time or another and I am extremely grateful that all of you are here freely offering your experience and knowledge.

Lyn....I am so very sorry this is happening to you!!!!


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## xxs (Sep 30, 2005)

Lyn, I am so sorry that you were singled out in these peoples' "quest". This has nothing to do with vets..and, it is NOT against the law to treat your own horses or give them shots. If it was, think about all the folks who would be sitting in jail for giving themselves insulin!!!!! LOL!! Or people who have had to deliver their own babies!! This is a stupid suit!

This is about getting even..plain and simple.

And, I hope that you all are remembering the webpage that they had up (I DO HOPE SOMEONE MADE A COPY OF THAT!! ) saying how much they hated Miniature Horse breeders!! Hmmmm *I* am a breeder..perhaps I should follow their lead and sue them for loss of sales due to that webpage!!!

To the people in question: You people need to find another "hobby"...


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## lyn_j (Sep 30, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]Triggy, I will not have this deleated nor will I ask for it to be closed. You have not been targeted. 12 of the rest of us have. I want the investigator and the board memebers that she reports to to see this thread and realize how the other forum members feel about postings here. That they all realize that Vets should be called but when there isnt one available or someone has a question about conformation which an experienced breeder can help with that people can feel free to come here for support and information. Thats what this board was meant to do. I dont send lawyers and police men to your door ordering you not to post her or send me private e mails that I disagree with... I tell you myself when Im upset and we handle it.[/SIZE]

These people cant handle a difference of opinion because It wont benefit them financially or enhance their noteriety.

If we silence this thread , we silence this forum and then they win. I have not visited their sites in over a year but I too remember when they were blasting breeders for being breeders and then they listed as their main supporter one of the biggest breeders producing dwarfs in the industry.

The investigator asked me why it has to be them and us..... I told her we have tried to let them alone but they refuse to leave us alone. It is no longer about differing ideas it has now become revenge on their part. I am not the only one targeted. I am just the vocal one. You see, when one sense or ability is taken away from you your others, like hearing and speach or freedom of speach become stronger. On that I stand!

Thanks to all of you for supporting not only me but the future of this forum community.



(sort of feels like the 60s again doesnt it?



)

Lyn


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## ChrystalPaths (Sep 30, 2005)

Feels like the 60s again? Youbetcha! Where are my ell bottoms and mini skirts! Oh Lord...I'm 50 sratch that...I wave my banners here instead.


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## Cathy_H (Sep 30, 2005)

I'll be the first one to say that we have had more than one vet make a wrong call on one of our horses. What use was their training & license to me when I'm crying over my dead horse? One ulcerated eye because the vet gave us ear mite medicine instead of eye ointment.. One horse died because of the wrong treatment.......... *I will say again that a horse owner's experiences are worth more than a vets sometimes & are worth listening to*.................................................................. I have been to the big horse forums & those posters give just as much if not more vet advice than we do here. Perhaps we should ask for their help in fighting this? If I report them, will they be investigated also?


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## AJ (Sep 30, 2005)

We should remind ourselves that all of us ran into a situation for the first time. For some who have been in the mini world for decades, the experiences have often been repeated , which newbies have not experienced. The important thing is, I believe that a very high percentage of the solutions we put forward or experienced, were first recommended or administered by a vet. If somebody recommends a certain dosage, its because thats likely what a vet told her when she had a similar situation.


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## Danielle_E. (Sep 30, 2005)

???????????????????????????????



> They dropped the case they were pursuing in Europe, too, and the man involved speaks freely on the Internet about it, in spite of their trying to gag him!!


Rabbitsfizz, you have a pm


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## ~LadyBug~ (Sep 30, 2005)

[SIZE=14pt]For Crying out Loud if these are the people I think they are, I honestly can't believe they are still at it after all this time. [/SIZE]

I have been a member of this forum for about 3 years now, but for the most part quit posting on the main board, but I am still a frequent Lurker.

Lyn, Good luck with this, I really believe that in the end, the law is going to realize that these people are just seeking revenge.

You are a great person with good intentions, and i do believe freedom of speech applies to you here.

If nobody was allowed to talk about anything unless they were licensed, nobody would be talking!! And lets remember that veteranarians are not infallible!! I have been a veterinary Technician for 2 years and I have found that PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE is a major supplemet TO veterinary medicine, because an owner that has a base knowledge of what is going on can have information and preliminary care READY when the vet arrives!!

And if we do not Share this information, how are people going to learn it??

To you sorry excuses for horse people that are doing this to Lyn, NObody is shoving anything down your throat or telling you that you have to do things their way. This is an open forum, if you ask for an opinion you dang better believe you are going to get one!!

If you dont like it, then by all means do not heed the advice! It is a simple concept.


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## OhHorsePee (Sep 30, 2005)

Gee, do you think I should press charges on my mother for telling me how pleasurable child birth is? Or maybe the man at Kroger's meat section for telling me his way of cooking a certain meat? After all, he isn't a chef.

They are just trying to silence you from voicing your opinion/concerns of a certain thing they hope to capitalize on. Free is never free. But petty is always petty.

Fran


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