# Shaft length and cart size question...



## roxy's_mom (Feb 2, 2010)

Hey all! I asked a while back about how to measure for the shaft length for each horse. I know how to do that now thanks to everyone's help!!

*Situation:*

I currently have one driving horse and am working on breaking another one of mine to drive. Both of these horses are right around 35" tall. They both have different stride lengths so I have a feeling that the cart that I currently use for show will not work for both of them. The shafts on my show cart are 49" from tip to single tree. The shafts don't always stay level it the shaft carriers when coming to a stop/halt. They tend to rise up in the air and the seat/back part of the cart sinks towards the ground, I end up leaning forward in the cart to drop the shafts back down. I don't have tie straps for the shafts because the harness that I was using didn't come with any and there was no way to attach the straps to the harness. In the pictures below you'll notice my mare is really chewing on the bit, I've now figured out the the side check trap running down her neck is about 4"-6" to short for her and it was making her uncomfortable causing her to chomp on the bit while driving. The bridle is a mini side check bridle. I also now have a better show harness with all the right straps for shafts, hold back straps, and a longer check line as well. All help is appreciated. I am possibly looking at trading this cart for a little bigger one so I have one that will work for both horses but wanted to know your opinions first before I went and did it.

*Question:*

1.) What is the best shaft length for a 35" horse?

2.) Do the shafts on this cart look to short for this horse?

3.) Does the cart look to small for this horse?

Here's pics of the cart on my current driving horse - all taken last summer

First picture my horse is at an almost full extended trot.







Next picture is sort of uneven terran going up hill bit. Short choppy stride due to the ground.






Same uneven terran going down hill. short choppy stride due to the ground






Stand still/halt.






Thanks for all your help!! If you see anything else please comment! I have made some adjustments since these pictures were taken, i.e. pulling the saddle a little farther back, adjusting the breast strap a notch higher, longer check line from the bridle to the saddle, and also letting the trace lines a out another notch.

Becky M.


----------



## RhineStone (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi Becky!

In regards to question #1, refer to my answer to this question posted by Kira98 a couple of days ago.

I would say that your shafts look somewhat borderline in regards to being too short. If this is your horse's full length of stride, you might be able to get away with it. I like where the horse is in the shafts, but she might hit the basket with her heels if her stride gets any longer. She has a VERY nice stride! Nice mover!

I would lower the shafts at the tugs (shaft loops as some people call them). They don't need to be going that far uphill. The shaft tip should be closer to the point of the shoulder. This may also help your feeling of "falling out of the back". If it doesn't, then yes, your cart is too small. You shouldn't have to struggle to be comfortable and maintain your balance.

There are two things you can do to make this cart fit better. #1 - get bigger wheels, #2 - get longer shafts. This would save you the cost of having to get a whole new cart, but you have to be a "little handy" to get it done (or have access to someone handy)!



Bigger wheels will level the cart better, and you won't have the falling out feeling.

In terms of the check, are you showing AMHR shows? Considering that there is a big horse in the background, this looks like an Open show. Open shows around here don't require a check. Mini shows do. ADS shows do not. If you don't need it, just take it off. It doesn't do anything for the style of driving you are doing (i.e. you don't need to hold her head up, like a fine harness horse). The only thing it does for a mini is try to keep them from snatching grass, but if you teach them correctly, they won't do that either in harness.

You can also put one foot forward on the floor. That would help you feel more balanced, and have a more secure "seat". You seem to be slouching, but that could be caused by the falling out problem. Is your shirt "filling up with air" as you move? This also gives the slouching look, and a snug vest can help with that.

The only other thing I would fix is your hands. Do you ride English at all? Using the same hand position allows you to work the horse's mouth a little more effectively than what I call the "plow rein" position. You can use the lower fingers on your hands to cue the horse instead of having to move the whole top of your hand to do the same thing. Your arm position looks wonderful!

Nice start!

Myrna


----------



## MiLo Minis (Feb 2, 2010)

I would like to see a little larger wheel on this cart for this horse and then drop your tugs down one hole. If this doesn't help with the balance problem then you need to move the seat ahead a bit to put a bit more weight forward and keep the shafts at draft level. I think you could easily move her ahead in the shafts a few inches too by lengthening the traces, they are almost past her point of shoulder, giving her a bit more room to maneuver. I bet once you get your balance problem solved you find a whole new gear in your pretty little mare.

Try taking a deep breath, open your shoulders sticking your chest out and roll your shoulders back - that will give you the position for your upper body you need to use in the cart.


----------



## BannerBrat (Feb 2, 2010)

Hello, beautiful mare by the way!





I think the shafts are borderline with your horses, it's up to you.

I do think the cart looks a little small, but it is a very nice cart.

I would take the side check off or get one that fits, I find that the checks are always too short to use other then to check them up fairly high...



> The shafts don't always stay level it the shaft carriers when coming to a stop/halt. They tend to rise up in the air and the seat/back part of the cart sinks towards the ground, I end up leaning forward in the cart to drop the shafts back down. I don't have tie straps for the shafts because the harness that I was using didn't come with any and there was no way to attach the straps to the harness.



Do you mean there is nothing keeping the shafts from flipping up... because that is a very scary thought! There definently needs to be something to keep the shafts from flipping up over the horses back. Maybe I read that wrong though...



If this isn't a problem for you I'm sorry, I know you didn't ask about that in your post.


----------



## roxy's_mom (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks Myrna and MiLo! I was considering getting bigger wheels for this cart, the wheels currently are 20", I was thinking of going to 24" to bring the cart more level and a little better for balance. If I remember right my tugs are at the last hole right now, but I will have to double check to make sure. If they aren't I will move them down a hole. I'll try all of this and keep you posted! I don't get to drive to much now that it's cold out (don't want to take the chance that my horses get sick after working them hard and making them sweat in heavy winter coats).

This little mare that I have pictured can really boogie if I let her. She has really come to enjoy driving and gets upset when I take my other one out to work with. I've had several judges comment on how much of a difference her trot gaits are. You can actually see the difference in the slow trot and the drive on trot that she has. I'm planning on working on her extended trot this spring to help her stretch and relax a little more.

Myrna,

I went to my first AMHR show at the Keystone Classic in Bloomsburg, PA and I know according to the AMHR rule book that my horse does have to be in a check. Now as for the open show that I primarily go to I believe we have to use a check line as I think they use AMHR/4-H rule books. My mare does really well without the check, that's how I had originally trained her to drive but seeing how I show her I had to get her used to wearing a check. I had originally had an over check on her but she really didn't like that so I switched to the side check and it made her alot more comfortable but now that I realized the chewing on the bit was coming from the check line being to short for her I think she will do alot better once I put the longer one on her.

I'm planning on changing my driving attire this year. I have a couple jackets that I'm going to wear instead of my western style shirt.

I don't ride English. I prefer Western but I will try moving the lines further down into my hand and use my fingers. I drove Belgians prior to driving my mare so I guess I just carried the practice over to my horse. With the drafts I was taught to used my whole and to really get a hold of lines to have better control. Plus if I ever would have been taught to drive multiples I would have had to rely on having the extra space for the extra lines.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions!! Keep them coming. I hoping to do a little better this year with the things everyone has told me and be able to continue to learn more as time goes on.

Becky M.


----------



## roxy's_mom (Feb 2, 2010)

Bannerbrat,

I didn't mean to scare anyone by saying my shafts came up in the air. The shafts are still in the carriers they just tip up a little bit. I have tie down straps now that will be able to keep the shafts from tipping. I will also be considering getting bigger wheels for this cart but I may also try and trade this cart back to the carriage company it came from to get a cart with a little longer shafts.

Keep the comments/suggestions coming. I interested in them all.

Becky M.


----------



## jleonard (Feb 2, 2010)

The way that Myrna is describing holding the reins does not mean that you are holding any less of the rein, it just means that you rotate the rein in such a way that you can give more subtle ques. It looks like the way you are currently holding them, the part of the rein attached to the bit is coming out of the top of your hand and the tail end out the bottom. If you "flip" the reins over so that the part attached to the bit runs between your ring and pinkie fingers, and the tail comes out the top of your hand, then you can just squeeze your fingers to communicate rather than move your whole hand.

Very cute mare by the way, she reminds me of a little Welsh


----------

