# Metamucil, how do you really know......?



## Marty (Oct 31, 2005)

Ok I just went through my first round of Sand Clear. The whole container lasted about 5 seconds. This is not cost effective at all, however very easy to use and everyone did eat it right up, but not sold locally either. I'm thinking about going to Metamucil for my winter dirt problem which is easily obtainable.

The problem I have found with using Metamucil however is in the dosage, especially because it was designed for humans in the first place and not for equines, such as Sand Clear or Sandblast.

Just how can anyone really figure out what is the right amount to give and how often? I've gone back and searched this subject and mostly everyone that feeds it, does it differently. It's guesswork and that bothers me.

In the big horse world I am quite good at guesstimating a horse's weight but in the minis, I'm so not there and I have a wide range of sizes here too.

So my question would be, how did you arrive at your dosage of Metamucil and how do you know it is working to eliminate sand? Please explain how you came to your conclusions.

Sidenote:

Didn't someone once come up with a height=weight chart of some sort here? Does anyone know where it is?

Was it Al B?

Thanks much for your input. Appreciate it.


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## Kathy2m (Oct 31, 2005)

My vet told me with the big horses 1 cup 2-3 times a week. I space it out, because when we used it at the TB farm for several days in a row it moved too much sand and we had mild colics. The owner was worried about colic in the broodmares. If we had one that was colicing often, my vets first instructions were 10 days of metimucil straight to move it all, to rule out sand. Then down to the normal dose. For the little guys it is a guessing game. I give about 2 tbl. 2-3 times a week. I asked my vet if the metimucil is as effective as the horse brand he said yes. As you know living in Fl. the sand can become a BIG problem. So my dosing it came from my vet and trial and error and horses friends. I'm sure Robin knows better.


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## Mulligans Run (Oct 31, 2005)

Marty, we were using Metamucil (actually Equate - Wal Mart brand) every month. We'd dose them at 1/4 cup; once a day; for five days in a row.

Recently we changed to Physllium and we give that every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. It's a small amount and our big bucket has lasted a long time.

We recently had a colic, and there was no evidence of sand in her stool, so hopefully it's working...


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## Robin_C (Oct 31, 2005)

> Marty, we were using Metamucil (actually Equate - Wal Mart brand) every month. We'd dose them at 1/4 cup; once a day; for five days in a row.


Marty - unfortunately even vets differ in what they recommend for the use of Metamucil -- but the above is exactly what I do to the letter. Big horse gets 1 cup (she about 1100 lbs and I always dose the adult minis at 250 lbs regardless).

Psyllium is psyllium is psyllium despite what name is on the label. The active ingredient is the same in human Metamucil, Wal-Mart's Equate, the more expensive SandClear and other horse products. The only difference is in the "fillers" or carriers -- the part that makes the product more palatable to humans (sugar and flavorings for us) and perhaps an alfalfa-based pellet for the horse products. Psyllium is not a chemical or a drug -- it is plant fiber, plain and simple. Some studies show that a high fiber diet (lots of forage) will produce as much "sand-clearing" effect as adding any of these products to the equine diet. BUT, because I live in the land of sand (Florida), I do feed Equate once per month x the first 5 days of the month. I also feed whole flax seed for 5 days straight during the middle of the month (the rest of the time I feed it freshly ground). There is some evidence that whole flax seed produces the same mucilage effect that psyllium does -- which makes sense since the seed husk of the flax seed is very similar to the plant husk fiber that makes up what we call psyllium.

The Wal-Mart brand is perfectly acceptable as is the more expensive Metamucil. Just look for products that contain a high percentage of psyllium. Special considerations should be given for horses with metabolic issues (I/R, Cushing's, founder, laminitis), perhaps choosing one of the sugar-free varieties. For horses not at risk for these problems, however, the orange-flavored one seems to be the favorite in my barn.

Robin C

(Opinion provided by me should be considered for discussion purposes only and does not constitute medical or nutritional advice. I do not have credentials in equine nutrition, but can provide reference materials on request for any information provided. Please consult your veterinarian before making any changes in your horse's diet or health regimen.)


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## whitney (Oct 31, 2005)

I also recently changed to pure Phyllium. Walmart stuff is more SUGAR than phyllium, its not cost effective as you have to feed more to get the same amount of a pure phyllium product.

How can you tell its working? Do the sand test.


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## Mulligans Run (Oct 31, 2005)

Wow Robin...thanks for that information. I didn't realize that they all were based on the same product...and I wasn't aware of the benefits of flax seed.

So, is it possible to go back to the Metamucil, but give it on the same schedule as my Physllium...every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday??? I think it'd end up being cheaper in the long run. Either way, my horses seem to love it. No one leaves anything behind (pardon the pun)






Edited...well, Whitney beat me to the punch. Guess we'll stick with the Physllium.


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## Margo_C-T (Oct 31, 2005)

I use the Walmart generic form of Metamucil," equate". It IS made of psyllium fiber, as are all of the "horsey" brands. I use the sugar-free formulation, because the psyllium is the first ingredient listed on the label, meaning that is the primary ingredient(if you read the label on the 'regular' form, the first ingredient listed is sucrose.) The sugar-free is orange-flavored, but the horses don't seem to mind.

I feed from two rounded Tablespoons to 1/4 cup, per mini, per day, once a month for a week in a row. My basis for feeding on that schedule is that it is the 'generally' recommended way of feeding the various horsey psyllium products I have used-and I have used SEVERAL of them! However, I have read of a number of different dosing SCHEUDULES-two days every week, three days every week, every other day, 5, 7, 10 days in a row, periodically-once a month, usually-and don't know if ANYONE really 'knows' which schedule is 'best'????(My dosage amount does seem to 'mesh' with that of the poster who said their vet recommended one cup for a "big" horse...FWIW.) True, it is not as convenient to use as most of the 'horsey' brands-but it is also MUCH less expensive, especially when you have a number of horses to give it to-however, as far as I can tell, it seems to be working. One good way to check is to test a fresh, 'clean'(hasn't touched the ground)manure ball from each horse every so often. Put the 'ball' into a latex glove half filled with water, agitate to break it up, hang the glove upside down for several hours, then feel the glove fingers for sand/dirt. This would work as a way to check for sand, no matter WHAT psyllium product you are using!

In my experience, you will about HAVE to be feeding some sort of concentrate to mix the "equate" with. One drawback is that if they go and get a drink of water right before, or during, the consumption of the psyllium, it will tend to 'gel'inside their mouth/on their teeth. I always feed grain/concentrate AFTER I feed hay; when feeding the psyllium, I will wait until they have gotten well through their hay, and taken a drink, then gone back and eaten hay for awhile, before I give the grain/concentrate that includes the psyllium.

(Since the AIM of feeding a psyllium product IS to remove sand/dirt, I can't imagine a situation of removing "too much sand"...????)


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## Becky (Oct 31, 2005)

I, too, have started using the Equate brand of psyllium (the checkers kind of look at you funny when you buy several jars of it! LOL). My biggest concern is the sugar free variety. Has anyone seen any info on whether artificial sweeteners are safe for horses?


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## Kathy2m (Oct 31, 2005)

Margo_C-T said:


> (Since the AIM of feeding a psyllium product IS to remove sand/dirt, I can't imagine a situation of removing "too much sand"...????)
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You can remove it too fast and cause them to colic is what I have been told. When it was done where I worked for several days in a row we had brood mares colic, the vet said it was because it moved the sand too fast to space it out every other day. This usually happens when they have not had any psyllium product before. They had been oiled and bran mashed. Hope this clears things up.


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## hhpminis (Oct 31, 2005)

I also use the WalMart brand and I use the regular as well. I am not a fan of the artificial sweetner idea either. I poison myself with it but prefer not to give it to the horses. JMO, I have no basis for that. It just seems that the more artificial stuff you add to the diet the worse it would be.

We do not have a sand problem here. I have never sound it in my horses stool but I do the treatment anyway. 5 days straight each month.

I also like to watch the checkout person when I buy 6 bottles of it. During foaling season when I add the KY Jelly, rubber gloves, and Fleet enemas it is even funnier.


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## Marty (Oct 31, 2005)

Very nice posts, ladies. Lots of good information here on this one. Appreciate you all very much for sharring.

For those of you that are using Pure Physillium, where are you getting that?


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## CharmedMinis (Oct 31, 2005)

I'm going to throw in a caution story here.

I no longer treat my horses for sand colic. Luckily I live in the part of my village that is hard packed clay, so I've stopped worrying about it.

I used to do the once a month thing until I had a very scary problem.

Back in 2003 I brought a new stallion home in October, in November I put him on the sand clear schedule. I also was using the WalMart brand.

Well on the 3rd day into the 5 day treatment my stallion started acting sickly, similar to colic but not quite. Had the vet out and he was EXTREMELY dehydrated and somewhat impacted.

As you should all know.......when taking any type of fiber product you need to up your water intake dramatically because it can cause dehydration and constipation if you aren't consuming enough water. It's the same with horses.

My little stallion already doesn't drink much water to begin with, so adding a fiber product made him sick. He was on IV fluids for 2 days and wasn't quite right for a whole month, we kept adding mineral oil to his food because his manure was so dry.

Since then I haven't given any fiber products to anyone.

That being said, I would if I were in a sandy area, and I would do the 5 days once a month thing. However I would never do the 2 or 3 times a week thing, too much risk of them being slightly dehydrated all the time IMHO.

So just be aware of your horses water intake when you are giving a fiber product, and make sure what is coming out of your horse isn't too dry


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## Hosscrazy (Oct 31, 2005)

I use pure psyllium - EquiAid and order it through KV Vet online. I give my guys 1/4 cup every Monday and Friday, every week. The thinking in my area is why wait for the sand to build up for an entire month - instead, we have it as part of their regular weekly routine.

I've mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating. When I lost Krystle I had a full autopsy done on her, including opening up her intestines. She was 13 years old and had been on Equi-Aid her entire adult life. There was no sand in her intestines, which tells me that the product works.

Liz R.


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## Robin_C (Oct 31, 2005)

CharmedMinis said:


> So just be aware of your horses water intake when you are giving a fiber product, and make sure what is coming out of your horse isn't too dry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great point! I encouage my horses to drink by providing a top dressing of a mineral supplement that contains plenty of salt (I know because I've tasted it myself) once per day on their feed (free choice minerals and plain white salt are offered as well). This is especially important in the winter when water intake can plummet due to cooler temperatures. Simply adding regular table salt, a tsp or so per day, is another alternative.

I think many of us long-time horsekeepers have gotten to the point that we recognize many of our horses' "signature" manure. Once ANY change is noted, careful attention should be given to that individual until it returns to normal. Manure is one of the best barometers for your horses' overall gut health. Too much moisture resulting in mushy to watery stools could indicate any number of problems - sand, worms, not enough fiber in the diet, while hard, compacted fecal balls could be a sign of too LITTLE fiber or dehydration. Observe and adjust accordingly. Healthy manure should be well-formed and slightly shiny with a brown to greenish tinge, depending on the forage type.

Gross subject for most people - but it's amazing how many of us would consider ourselves "poopologists"!

Robin C


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## Margo_C-T (Oct 31, 2005)

I have read ALL of these posts with great interest.

My "take" on the use of the artificially sweetened "equate" is that the sucrose(a sugar)would be worse; plus what I said before about the sucrose being the highest-percentage ingredient in the 'regular'. I am fine after MANY years of pretty much DAILY use of artificial sweeteners, FWIW....just my own take; the decision to use what I use was made only by me, based on all the information I could find, my experience, and a certain degree of 'gut' feeling.

I have never noticed any problem with fluid intake related to the use of psyllium; however, as I said, I deliberately hold off on feeding the concentrate containing the psyllium until the horses have eaten well-through their hay ration(I give the concentrate containing psyllium in the mornings), gotten a drink of water, and been back to eating hay for awhile, before I give it. I do this because I DO think it helps, in that the water is already IN the horse's stomach fairly shortly BEFORE the psyllium.

(kathy2m-with your further explanation, I now see that you were actually referring more to the 'speed' of removal of an accumulation of sand-and the approach you mentioned makes sense in that regard. Thanks for coming back on to clarify...!)

BTW, I would also be interested in sources and any other information about 'pure' psyllium for horses!


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## chandab (Oct 31, 2005)

Ok, I have a question in keeping with the topic...

If a horse is already on a high fiber diet, pretty much just hay or hay pellets plus minimal grain... Do they really need psyllium (another fiber) added to remove sand? Wouldn't the fiber they are already getting do the job? What about beet pulp? It's high in fiber, would/does it help remove sand?

Just asking. Humans don't usually ingest enough fiber in their regular diets, hence, the need for psyllium to move things along, but horses are meant to eat and digest fiber, so it just seems odd to add another source of to do this.


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## Becky (Oct 31, 2005)

Good question, Chanda and I don't really know the answer. But it seems to me that since psyllium turns into a gel mass when wet, it would be more likely to pick up sand as it moves through the intestines than just digested fiber would.


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## Hosscrazy (Oct 31, 2005)

I think it really depends if your horses are in an area where they could be ingesting a lot of sand. There's a really good test:

Take a few manure balls and drop them into a jar of water. Put a lid on the jar, shake it up, and let the contents settle. If they are injesting sand, it will sink to the bottom of the jar.

Liz R.


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## chandab (Oct 31, 2005)

Becky said:


> Good question, Chanda and I don't really know the answer.  But it seems to me that since psyllium turns into a gel mass when wet, it would be more likely to pick up sand as it moves through the intestines than just digested fiber would.
> 492842[/snapback]
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Makes sense, but still seems that you add more fiber to a high fiber diet when feeding psyllium. Would still be interesting to see if anybody knows.


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## Robin_C (Oct 31, 2005)

I think I mentioned in my previous note about a high fiber diet vs. psyllium products. There is some research (from the University of Florida) which indicates a high fiber diet -- one that includes a lot of hay, grazing or beet pulp -- does as much to reduce sand in the gut as adding psyllium.

The key factor in the plant seed husk fiber is the "mucilage" effect as mentioned above. When this fiber is added to liquid it creates a gel or "mucilage" which supposedly helps pick up the sand, move it through the gut and out of the horse without irritating the colon. Flax seed will produce this same effect. Soak (or cook) some whole flax seed or place your psyllium product in water and see what happens. A high fiber diet would move the sand merely by bulk and does not create this "mucilage" effect.

Also one needs to take into consideration their geographic area and their horse's exposure to sand. Florida - obvious! Other areas of the country, or a horse that is not routinely turned out on pasture, may have not enough sand in the gut to worry about. The poop in a jar or glove test is one way to tell. Another is to use a stethoscope against the horses low right flank area of the abdomen. Normally you will hear tinkling and gurgling sounds. A horse with a heavy sand load will actually sound like waves on beach sand as the gut peristalsis moves ingesta through the large intestine.

BTW - for those of you looking for 100% pure psyllium, I looked at my Wal-Mart brand of psyllium this evening (since I am starting my monthly rounds) and the label states 100% pure psyllium with natural and artificial flavoring.

Robin C


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Oct 31, 2005)

I was told by the vets at University of Penna, New Bolten center to give two heaping tablespooons daily for one week a month. I have a lot of sand here in NJ so I do it 5 days on, 5 days off.


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## chandab (Oct 31, 2005)

Robin,

Thank you for the additional information.



Robin_C said:


> I think I mentioned in my previous note about a high fiber diet vs. psyllium products. There is some research (from the University of Florida) which indicates a high fiber diet -- one that includes a lot of hay, grazing or beet pulp -- does as much to reduce sand in the gut as adding psyllium.
> The key factor in the plant seed husk fiber is the "mucilage" effect as mentioned above.  When this fiber is added to liquid it creates a gel or "mucilage" which supposedly helps pick up the sand, move it through the gut and out of the horse without irritating the colon.  Flax seed will produce this same effect.  Soak (or cook) some whole flax seed or place your psyllium product in water and see what happens.  A high fiber diet would move the sand merely by bulk and does not create this "mucilage" effect.
> 
> BTW - for those of you looking for 100% pure psyllium, I looked at my Wal-Mart brand of psyllium this evening (since I am starting my monthly rounds) and the label states 100% pure psyllium with natural and artificial flavoring.
> ...


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## shminifancier (Oct 31, 2005)

That type yes it IS Fiber... BUT Only a Psyllium product has the Adhering properties to Grab unto the sand... Just because there is fiber in the diet does not mean it IS Moving the Sand out of the intestines....I have had the unfortunate opportunity to Feel inside the intestines of a horse that had Just Dies because of Sand Colic~! And the Intestines were FULL of Sand you could take out hand fulls... So even a horse being on a grass hay diet it just is not enough to Stick to the sand and get the Sand to be Eliminated out in the manure..And that is what a product that has Psyllium is full... Making the mixture sort of tacky and the sand then Sticks to the Psyllium and out it comes..And beet pulp and other products just don't have that Adhering properties to them..



chandab said:


> OK,  I have a question in keeping with the topic...
> If a horse is already on a high fiber diet, pretty much just hay or hay pellets plus minimal grain...  Do they really need Psyllium (another fiber) added to remove sand?  Wouldn't the fiber they are already getting do the job?  What about beet pulp?  It's high in fiber, would/does it help remove sand?
> 
> Just asking.  Humans don't usually ingest enough fiber in their regular diets, hence, the need for Psyllium to move things along, but horses are meant to eat and digest fiber, so it just seems odd to add another source of to do this.
> ...


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## zacharyfarms (Nov 1, 2005)

Hi Marty, I posted some good info on another post titled Sand Colic this morning.

You might want to read..


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## dmhstacy (Nov 2, 2005)

Becky said:


> Good question, Chanda and I don't really know the answer.  But it seems to me that since psyllium turns into a gel mass when wet, it would be more likely to pick up sand as it moves through the intestines than just digested fiber would.
> 492842[/snapback]
> ​


does this mean psyllium can only be fed dry?

I give my horses a wet feed and add psyllium to it.

Would it not work aswell being wet?


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## Robin_C (Nov 2, 2005)

I add psyllium to a beet pulp meal that is moist -- not sloppy wet. It might "gel" up in the presence of a lot of water and might not be as palatable to the horse. Other than that, it would not be harmful in any way or reduce the "effectiveness" of any benefits.

Robin C


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Nov 2, 2005)

i am curious how cost effective this really is? if you have a few horses and they are all getting 1/4 cup of the human kind once a day for 7 days is this really cheaper then giving less amounts of the horse kind?


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## bevann (Nov 2, 2005)

I have had lots of experience with sand colic since I live about 5 miles from the bat&millions of years ago I am sure my farm was under water.I feed psyllium pellets AM&PM the first 7 days of every month.If is rains during the rest of the month I do another day after the rain stops.These Minis graze very close and pull up grass with sand on the roots. I have used the Walmart brand and also the equine version.Some of the equine versions smell like licorice&some of my horses won't eat that.The picky ones get Walmart powdered version-odorless&sticks very well to the sweet feed.If they want to eat they get it stuck to their feed.A friend of mine was told by her vet to feed it wet, but I don't see how it would work that way since it becomes like gummy bears when wet.I also add table salt to feed in the winter to encourage more water intake.I had consulted U of FL about bran mash to remove sand.Was told it is not effective-only psyllium products will do sand.


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## shminifancier (Nov 2, 2005)

If you want to see just how effective Psyllium is Just put a little fine sand in a glass of water let it settle some put in a little Psyllium and stir and then see just what has settled back to the bottom...very very little if any.. Now try the Same Test with Other types of things like beet pulp etc. and see what the difference is..Real easy to try this test and just see what happens easy and very little cost to try this. I have seen this done and Psyllium is the only product that picks up and Holds onto the sand it does not settle back to the bottom..And that is what you want to get the sand out of the horses system.


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