# ASPC-AMHR Convention Info



## Yaddax3 (Nov 7, 2009)

There are several ASPC-AMHR board members who use this forum, so I'd like to suggest to them that at future Conventions they designate someone to post updates from Conventions on the official ASPC-AMHR website about what the heck is going on.

Just because people aren't there doesn't mean they don't care greatly about what is happening, particularly with rule proposals.

It almost seems as if there's an informational blackout in Orlando. Unless you know someone who's there, or know someone who knows someone who's there, you don't hear diddlysquat.

I will share what I heard and perhaps others can do the same.

When discussed with general membership, the proposal to limit exhibitors to just two horses in Hunter, Jumper, Obstacle and Liberty was defeated.

And ...

AMHR Park Harness horses can now wear a Liverpool pit.

Adding Foundation Roadster was passed.

A proposal to limit a gate hold to two minutes was defeated in the general membership meeting for AMHR. (I always thought it was in the books, but, apparently, it was taken out several years ago. I was told the board is likely to ignore the general membership vote and institute a two-minute gate hold.)

All those proposals still hadn't received final approval/denial by the board.

I'd sure like to know about that Jumper rule proposal to have just one round, and if one of the rule proposals for AMHR youth qualifying was adopted.

Anyone know?


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## JMS Miniatures (Nov 7, 2009)

Thank you! I agree I wish there was some better way of communicating about what happens at Convention. I know last when I went I gladly shared information that I knew. Perhaps they can get something done next year.

Anyone else know anything else?


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## Minimor (Nov 7, 2009)

I thought the general membership meeting is today? Was it actually yesterday?


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## Filipowicz Farm (Nov 7, 2009)

Does anyone know who the judges are for Nationals and Congress?


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## Sandee (Nov 7, 2009)

Filipowicz Farm said:


> Does anyone know who the judges are for Nationals and Congress?


Saw this on the pony forum so it's 2nd or third hand information: Congress Judges:

Sid Hutchcraft

Roger Eitel

J. Brugginnik


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## txminipinto (Nov 8, 2009)

I haven't heard anything official either but I doubt the board will pass the two minute gate rule. My sole theory on this after discussing this rule with my own director is that there are classes at Nationals and Congress that can not get in the arena in two minutes. They have to accept or reject the proposal exactly how it is written. The way the 2 minute gate rule is written states when the first horse ENTERS the gate so at Nationals it is impossible to get a class of 20 or more in the arena in 2 minutes.


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## picasso (Nov 8, 2009)

So here are the judges as I heard them. May not be spelled right.

Amateur and Youth:

Kurt Ford

Jon Wolf

Les Zadina

Open:

Ray Randall

Bill Fairchild

Kim Seipp

Performance:

Gary Edds

Amber Montgomery-Kildow

Austin VanWyck

They did say that there were 2 of them that had been contacted that were not confirmed to be judging. They did not tell us which 2 they were.

Yaddax: The jumper rule to only have one round was voted down in the committee, but it had to go before the board yesterday after I left.


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## LaVern (Nov 8, 2009)

Who are the new officers? Anyone know?


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## picasso (Nov 8, 2009)

I would like to know that too. We had to catch a flight out before they did that.


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## JMS Miniatures (Nov 8, 2009)

Looks like a nice group of judges. Did they say where the area shows are going to be held? Also where is the next Convention. Did they also talk about the membership fees? Also what happened to the Super Gelding program?


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## picasso (Nov 8, 2009)

I can answer a couple of those questions, too.

The only Area show they said was Area III would be in Perry, GA. They said the rest would be in the Journal.

Next year's convention will be in Little Rock, AR.

And the Super Gelding program is alive and well. They said the information was on their website. www.supergelding.com I haven't actually looked at it yet, but they said it was there, so hopefully this link works. Just went and looked and the information appears to be there.

Don't remember hearing anything about the membership fees.


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## picasso (Nov 8, 2009)

I've heard President is Larry Parnell and 1st Vice President is Pat Sanders.


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## Yaddax3 (Nov 8, 2009)

The Area VI show will be in Winona, MN, over the Fourth of July weekend.


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 9, 2009)

I just got home and can say this was a very disappointing Convention all the way around.

We had NO CHANCE to discuss or ask questions on certain issues in the committee meetings were told by directors make sure to bring it up in YOUR GENERAL meeting the key word there being YOUR- General meeting well let me tell you they could not have shut it down any faster it was almost like a magic act one minute they are there the next they are gone.

It seemed like a very stratigic move to ensure the discussion never came up. THey might not have wanted to answer they might not have wanted to hear but the reality is this is our meeting and our membership it does not belong to 17 people. We had and have the right to be heard and ask questions. If they would have allowed 3 people to talk and ask and vent instead of running out of the room in avoidence I do feel many would not wonder what/why the need for the secrets . In any meeting it is customary for 3 people to talk -people go out of there way to get there to Convention- talk to directors as they are told to bring it up and then have no chance to speak - while the BOD may feel it is hashing over the same thing the members have not had a chance to hash over anything and now have to wait another year.

Talk to your directors.. what a joke call me negative.. (apparently many directors spent a bit of time calling me much worse )  I am simply saying it like it happened. One of my area directors listened and asked questions I wanted answered. THe other one.. I never even spoke to her she overheard my conversation with my other director.. then promptly went out and sat down and told others(including more directors) I needed to shut up I had no right to be questioning anything... Amazing my director feels those in her area have no rights to info... After sitting in the board meeting for a few years now I know which directors I will choose to talk to. They may not always agree with me and might not vote how I want but it is not what they want or I want it is what the majority wants after all that is who they represent.. US

Interestingly enough .. the OPEN board meeting shut down after very little open time.. and during the 2 hours it was open there were several breaks and a dinner break. They did not discuss private things the entire time in closed session in fact I was told so by 2 directors...

Obviously the info we all had was very worriesome to the board.. to hear it is being taken care of well ...... we have heard that before. To be treated as if nothing should be reported on these boards and to hear what a majority of the 17 feel of these forums.. well that is a whole other subject and those actions only lead to more distrust.

Now to the positive.... I will say this I heard one director question things that were not right and dig deeper when given the usual round about no answer answer. Not that it got them far but they tried

I heard 3 directors use the sentence MY AREA WANTS before they voted on one issue so that was refereshing

I am thankful to one director and his wife well make that 2 directors and there wives for spending the time to really explain to me there want and reasoning behind some of the rule proposals. Going into detail as to why they feel something truly is for the betterment of the registry I did not always agree with them even after they took the time to go over there side but I am very appreciative of the time they took to help me understand some issues and there own reasonings and beliefs.

Many left those rooms saying the same thing.. change must happen this is our regsitry and we need to work together as a group and stay banded together to ensure our rights and needs as members are being met and that our directors work for us - again not as individuals or private agendas but for us and our areas as a whole and if they are not doing that rally and find and elect someone who will it is your only chance to have a voice. *And trust me you do not want that voice to belong to one of the directors saying you have no right to be heard*. I am sure the not so positive things about me will continue to fly and that is ok this is not about me this is about doing what is specificed in our rule book we have by laws and general rules for a reason.

This is about our directors accepting the fact that .. be it the show person,or client- or trainer or friend.. or the small breeder or backyard pet owner all who pay the same dues and registration fees getting the same respect from those we elect to represent us.

I agree directors do not always get the respect they deserve it is not an easy job they can not please everyone. However it is very hard to earn respect when it is not always given and hearing the things I did this year (and not just about me lol I have thick skin) it is understandable why the respect is not always given on both sides.

A final note the most positive thing that came out of this Convention in my opinion is that many people who have perhaps even been on different sides of many issues are coming together from both ASPC and AMHR *and we as members are realizing the power truly does belong with us as a united group*. And that together we can move forward and ensure we are part of the process

I encourage all of you to go to an open board meeting when you can it is a truly eye opening and education experience on being able to hear the reasoning and other thoughts you may not have had and being able to understand the reasons for things being passed or not and to truly watch your directors in action which enables you to make a very informed decision when it comes time for elections.

If anyone has specific questions please feel free to email or PM


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## JMS Miniatures (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm sorry you got that response Lisa. That sounds very disturbing.

Guess we will be at Little Rock next year


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## RayVik (Nov 9, 2009)

I do not post to the forums as a rule but I do read them daily. Regarding the activities and procedures which occurred during any convention and more importantly regarding the structure and operation of our organization I cannot state the following strongly enough. READ and UNDERSTAND the articles and bylaws of our organization. DO NOT assume or take for granted what someone say is a “rule” or says “that’s the way we do or have done it”. Do not ask “isn’t their a rule/bylaw that says such and such …find it and read it and state it…if it is not there then it is not a rule/bylaw. Again if it is not there it is not a rule/bylaw. The rules/bylaws are what is written and they are as written. Understand your rights authority and exercise it to its fullest. Demand compliance or work to change it. Understand your rights or authority how to exercise it. This organization works exactly as we as members allows it to if it has a problem it is because we collectively as members accept and allow them to occur. Thing do not change by posting here they are changed by the manner and means which are stated in our rules/bylaws. Again READ and UNDERSTAND what we collectively have adopted and either accept or change it. Every thing we can/should or shall do is all written in the rules/bylaws if we accept or fail to enforce or conduct business in a manner other then it is written then it is because WE allow it to happen that way. If you allow yourself to be convinced to conduct or condone a matter you otherwise have a right to change or enforce then you have done so because you allowed it to happen the blame falls on you.

There is no “they” or “them” there is only “we” and “us”. There is only follow or accept or change you have the power, right and authority to do any, all or none. Your choice. ....Your right ….Your decision

If you do not allow yourself to understand how to do this then the fault is yours


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## dmk (Nov 9, 2009)

Yaddax3 said:


> and if one of the rule proposals for AMHR youth qualifying was adopted.
> Anyone know?


the youth qualifying proposal FAILED


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## bfogg (Nov 9, 2009)

Thank you Lisa for the information and for being the squeaky wheel so to speak.I am also sorry and a little discouraged for the way you were treated and talked about. You kind of expect people to have more class than that. I think it is so disappointing that a (was it a director?)director would talk about you and your concerns in such a fashion. For me, if I was an area representative I would want to know what the people that I am "supposed" to represent,what their wants, needs and concerns are. Isn't that what they are there for????????

It would have taken such a short time to talk with you, acknowledge you and your concerns and then move on. You as someone in their district would have gone away with a feeling of respect for that person even if you two disagreed. That person missed a great opportunity for personal growth for both of you.

My goodness I thought that was what a convention was for.I have found that usually people just want to be heard. If people feel their concerns were heard. They go away with a good taste in their mouth even if they did not get what they wanted.

What a shame.......

Bonnie


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 9, 2009)

thanks bonnie and yes it was MY director well one of them talking to other directors. They can be disrespectful all they want I can assure you and them.. all it is doing is fueling the fire not just for me but for others. The more disrespected we are the stronger we as a group become joined together to ensure our rights as members.

Minis have joined USEF that part never even came up to the floor for discussion in the AMHR committee meeting a directer pointed that out but the answer was basically oh well and it passed although I do not think that is a bad thing I am in favor of it.

The issue of Johnny Robbs book came up let everyone be clear if the book is purchased thru anyone but the main office... amazon or anywhere online- bookstores the place most people will purchase it if they are not memebers.. the money does not go to the registry it goes to the publisher and whatever contract the author had with them to get paid from the proceeds.

I have no problem with her writing a book and making money more power to her however I have heard from her this was part of our great breed pomotion in meetings and that we should all go purchase the book online now or in bookstores shortly (and the office was mentioned) however there was NEVER any mention of the proceeds not going to us. I pushed for that answer privatley with Johnny.(which to her credit she did come out and tell me honestly)

Let me also say this the way we are making money is the book (which has some wrong captions and wrong credits of whose horses they are) was purchased by the office at a lower price I believe we purchased 2000 or 2500 books I think the amount was 37000.-- but I have the numbers outside not in front of me so could be off there. They intend to sell us the book for more money I think almost triple and so for those amount of books if and when they sell they will bring in of course more money then we paid for them . I am not sure if that money will then go back into our marketing budget as no director asked that and many directors had no idea that we did not get any money if purchased online at Amazon and Borders which were the two places mentioned in the Marketing Committee meeting. I can say for a fact Joe had no idea that this was the way it was working nor did the 4 directors I spoke to on the issue. Good thing I asked or none of us nor our directors would know.

So once again we are giving money to the registry they paid 9 bucks we will pay 30 but we are supposed to give give give and not have a chance to ask or question spending?????? We need to raise money buy water have bake sales for congress and continue give more but have no right to know where what we give is going?

This is why our questions and opinons can be vaild and important to our BOD

We have also heard for 2 years possibly 3 now that the huge number of people going thru the Arabian Nights show would see our Shetland Ponys and it is great promotion. Well everyone around us said ohhhh a baby horse no one knew they were shetlands.. now we are told oh no the literacy is the promotion which is a great program... however it is NOT WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD FOR YEARS BY OUR MARKETING DIRECTOR. We were given more the once the number of people walking thru the doors at Arabian Nights for the shows and how many of those would now be exposed to the American Shetland Pony again cute ponies nice of the owners to donate them one was a bit naughty lol but that is horses just like kids bad at the wrong moment 

It was a great thing for Zona and Bruce Becker to get there ponies there but my only gripe is the show at Arabian Nights is NOT a breed promotion like we have been told.


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## Gypsygal (Nov 9, 2009)

I have a serious problem with the book. We pay Johnnie Robb to be our marketing director and in her capacity of that position she writes a book. We in turn have to buy it (large amount) and she gets paid by the publisher for those books. Talk about double dipping. Yet - another area where decisions are made and no one seems to know who made them or how.

I have only attended one convention but will never go again - what an incredible waste of time and money. The directors were not even in most of the meetings and I feel that most of them only vote how they feel not how their area feels. I have certainly tried to vote a few directors out.

But on the flip side - there are several very good directors that really care about the club and their area members. They do lots of work and take a lot of time during the year.

My suggestion to you Lisa - run for director, make a difference.

Gypsygal


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## LaVern (Nov 9, 2009)

I have pretty much felt the same way whenever I got back from a convention, Lisa. I guess most of the directors just feel that we are too dumb to understand anything. I don't know of any way to get our questions answered. The only thing they seem to think we are capable of is signing our name on checks. Maybe, stupid people like me, will have to get some help from smarter people to ask the questions and then help explain things to us.


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## Sunny (Nov 9, 2009)

I really appreciate the news and views brought here by those who were able to attend Convention.

However, I wish we would be told the NAMES of who did or said what. I *don't* mean in a negative, bashing kind of way, but just telling us who the people are. "Some directors", or "my director" or whatever just doesn't cut it. If "some" directors stood up and spoke on behalf of the members in their areas, for example, I'd like to know who they were. I'm referring to discussions that were on the floor, not private conversations among individuals.

I have wanted to mention this for a very long time, so it isn't in reference just to this particular Convention, but pretty much any news or events that concern the Registry. I don't want to hear rumours and gossip, but I would like to hear names and facts.


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## Sandee (Nov 9, 2009)

Sunny said:


> I really appreciate the news and views brought here by those who were able to attend Convention.
> However, I wish we would be told the NAMES of who did or said what. I *don't* mean in a negative, bashing kind of way, but just telling us who the people are. "Some directors", or "my director" or whatever just doesn't cut it. If "some" directors stood up and spoke on behalf of the members in their areas, for example, I'd like to know who they were. I'm referring to discussions that were on the floor, not private conversations among individuals.
> 
> I have wanted to mention this for a very long time, so it isn't in reference just to this particular Convention, but pretty much any news or events that concern the Registry. I don't want to hear rumours and gossip, but I would like to hear names and facts.


To keep this from becoming a bashing thing perhaps it would be best to list the names of those that spoke or reacted positively and leave the rest out of it. We don't want anyone to end up on the end of a lawsuit but those that do "a good job" should be recognized for their work. JMO


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 9, 2009)

There is no law suit coming forth by saying who said what and who voted how in a open board meeting they are open board meetings for a reason and in my opinion only why the meeting often become closed before issues of personal hearings or registry salaries are discussed. But that is just my opinion not worth much these days lol

Another thing is that we will now all vote for directors by mail with no meeting in a area. This was not due to people wanting it for years although I would like to say it was. It was due to being the only way to eliminate a quaram (sp) issue within the state of IL where we are listed as a not for profit.

So starting next year each member will recieve a ballot and be allowed to vote by mail without having to request one and this will be the only means of voting in a director.

Again they did not allow us to sit in the open meeting for very long there were only 3 of us in the room at the time. However if you would like to know how your director voted on those few issues email me and I will see if I wrote it down. I will not be able to tell you if I didnt have it in my notes as memory is not always accurate.

To be clear once more this - this is not about me not about what I want this is about right and wrong and everyone having to follow the same rules layed out and approved by our registry. I have no personal vendettas against anyone no hidden agenda. I in fact do not know many of these board members other then seeing them once a year at Convetion I do not know the majority of them well enough to even form an opinion about who and what they are about in there personal lives this is strictly for me anyway about going by the rules and the rules being the same for everyone be it a single mini owner or a well known trainer or long time breeder and everyone in between.


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## LaVern (Nov 9, 2009)

Just a thought. I can certainly see why directors would not want to respond to questions on an internet Forum. Sometimes we get side tracked and a little crazy. But, how about an "ASK YOUR DIRECTOR" page in the Journal. That would give them time to think and confer with other directors to make sure that they were in agreement with answers and we would get a pretty straight answer to some of the things we are worrying about.


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## muffntuf (Nov 9, 2009)

I do see your angst Lisa and GyspyGal - most directors also sit on committees - so weren't they on the committees when the committees met?


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 9, 2009)

I can tell you personally of a few directors ok not the truth a couple a small portion a very small portion - sat in the halls outside committee meetings getting people fired up on issues and then clearly and quickly voted totally the opposite way- was a bit strange why start and stir up drama and then vote the opposite with no questions or discussion ? I can understand if they are questioning and after some discussion with the other directors change there mind but ummm not really how it went down. I have to now seriously wonder why would these who sit so quiet in the board meetings and quickly vote with the majority spend so much time getting people fired up and causing such divison or at least adding to it????






I can not for the life of me figure out the intentions behind doing that but... perhaps I never will figure it out- my head is still reeling on all of this. I am trying to figure out agendas of people trying to figure out how I ended up being the bad guy here LOL (but hey I can take it ) trying to figure out why some directors are one way outside of the the board room and a totally different way inside- do they not realize even though the open portion was short it was enough to see they ranted and raved about issues and how against them they were and were so quick to vote for them behind closed doors?

this whole thing clearly makes no sense. I will say again though 3 directors did say this is how my area wants it to be this is how I will have to vote. Those same 3 directors have done this at other board meetings I have been at I have nothing but respect for them on that issue-

Perhaps there were more during closed session I can only speak for the 3 I saw in the short open session

i asked *one* of my directors a question and she promptly asked the right person for me even though we are on different sides of the fence on that issue she did her job and got clarification for me with no snide or snotty comments (to put it nicely lol) I appreciate that very much as well -her vote did not go the way I wanted on a issue but it is not world according to Lisa and as far as I am concerned she did her job as a director on that issue by at least asking the questions and getting the direct answers for me.

On a final note for me on this subject (unless someone has a direct question for me) until I can get all my ducks in a row here and take time to go over all my notes

Sharron and Karen *did a great job once again *keeping track of the bids and money for the trainers auction. Not an easy job heck I couldnt even keep track of what things were going for and I was bidding on them



I can not imagine trying to keep track of every single thing being sold.

The trainers worked hard to get money out of our pockets and while it was less then previous years that didnt stop them from trying to work the crowd. Honestly that was probobly the least intense and most fun part of Convention



So good job to all those that helped- those that donated and Sharron and Karen for keeping track of it all.


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## garyo (Nov 9, 2009)

RayVik said:


> I do not post to the forums as a rule but I do read them daily. Regarding the activities and procedures which occurred during any convention and more importantly regarding the structure and operation of our organization I cannot state the following strongly enough. READ and UNDERSTAND the articles and bylaws of our organization. DO NOT assume or take for granted what someone say is a “rule” or says “that’s the way we do or have done it”. Do not ask “isn’t their a rule/bylaw that says such and such …find it and read it and state it…if it is not there then it is not a rule/bylaw. Again if it is not there it is not a rule/bylaw. The rules/bylaws are what is written and they are as written. Understand your rights authority and exercise it to its fullest. Demand compliance or work to change it. Understand your rights or authority how to exercise it. This organization works exactly as we as members allows it to if it has a problem it is because we collectively as members accept and allow them to occur. Thing do not change by posting here they are changed by the manner and means which are stated in our rules/bylaws. Again READ and UNDERSTAND what we collectively have adopted and either accept or change it. Every thing we can/should or shall do is all written in the rules/bylaws if we accept or fail to enforce or conduct business in a manner other then it is written then it is because WE allow it to happen that way. If you allow yourself to be convinced to conduct or condone a matter you otherwise have a right to change or enforce then you have done so because you allowed it to happen the blame falls on you.There is no “they” or “them” there is only “we” and “us”. There is only follow or accept or change you have the power, right and authority to do any, all or none. Your choice. ....Your right ….Your decision
> 
> If you do not allow yourself to understand how to do this then the fault is yours



That is the best post on this subject and I couldn't agree more.

This was my and Ruth's first convention and we went into it ill prepared. It will not happen again.





Gary


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 9, 2009)

Gary this is off subject but I am pretty sure I was talking to you guys the morning of the HOF breakfast we were in the room pretty early was that you up near the front of the room?

I was stressing about saving 2 tables


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## garyo (Nov 9, 2009)

~Lisa~ said:


> Gary this is off subject but I am pretty sure I was talking to you guys the morning of the HOF breakfast we were in the room pretty early was that you up near the front of the room?
> I was stressing about saving 2 tables



Yes, that was Ruth and I. It's good to put a face to the names.

I guess our convention experience was similar.

We will be better prepared next year.

Gary


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## sfmini (Nov 10, 2009)

RayVik that was beautifully stated and should be read by members of both registries. I have said the same thing (not near as eloquently) for years and it falls on deaf ears. I hope this will sink in one day.

As for the convention and BOD meetings, are the minutes published for the membership to read? Sorry, I have only been paying attention to AMHA business, to keep from getting things confused in my mind as to who has what rule/bylaw.

If not, that might be a good place to start.

Who votes for the President and other major jobs?


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## kaykay (Nov 10, 2009)

From the rule book:

Article VI – Officers

The Officers of the Club shall consist of a President, Vice-

President, Treasurer and Secretary who shall be elected by a

majority vote of the Board of Directors at the first directors’

meeting succeeding the annual meeting of the membership. The

President and Vice-President must be members of the Board of

Directors. The Treasurer and Secretary shall not be named from

the Board of Directors, and may, or may not be the same

person. Such officers shall have the usual duties pertaining to

such offices; provided, however, that they shall in all instances

be subject to the direction of the Board of Directors acting as a

whole at a duly convened meeting.

Article VII – Board of Directors


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## Gypsygal (Nov 10, 2009)

The notes from the meeting will be posted in the Journal. The only parts that cannot be posted are those pertaining to personnel.


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## LAD (Nov 10, 2009)

> RayVik that was beautifully stated and should be read by members of both registries.


I agree with RayVik, it's extremely important to be familiar with "procedure". I wasn't able to attend Convention this year but have learned from past experience that you must be prepared as sometimes things go by so fast you leave the meeting saying... "What just happened?"





Rule proposal and changes are supposed to be sumitted by July 1st in order to be heard at convention. I believe there must be a 100 copies of the proposal made available to the members who are in the meeting. Many times members don't know what is going to be discussed when they get into the meetings until the last minute when the proposals are handed out. Even though there is discussion time, (usually not enough as the meeting has to move forward) When it's time to vote many still have ideas or questions concerning the topic because they have not had enough time to think about all the pros/cons. My question is this...Why can't copies of everything that is to be discussed in the meetings be provided in the Convention packet when we come in and register? That would give the memebers much more time to go thru the proposals they are interested in and be a little more prepared with questions/answers at meeting time.


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## LaVern (Nov 10, 2009)

RayVic I agree that you sure can say things good. And, I too am a rules person. I turned my 80 year old mother in for trying to sneak a cup of coffee onto a airplane once. The sign said, big as life - no carrying drinks on. She said that she couldn't see the sign. Yah- Sure

But, you can study that rule book till the cows come home and you can be a heck of a speaker, but what good does it do if you are ignored and don't get to speak.

No, I feel that we have only one option left--

The protest march. Oh, Boy one last carrying of signs. But, I am not quite sure of what to put on my sign. The good thing about the protest march is that it is outside and I usually spend half of my time outside smoking anyway. I'm digging out the fringes .


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 10, 2009)

LaVern said:


> But, you can study that rule book till the cows come home and you can be a heck of a speaker, but what good does it do if you are ignored and don't get to speak.


Knowing the rules is a good thing I am in agreement with that however that also means the BOD need to allow you to point out the rules and not override your rights.

Many were discussing out in the hallways that next year they are thinking of hiring a attorney as a group and having that person join AMHR and attend Convention working for us to ensure the rules are not only understood but being followed and we are allowed all of our rights as members.

The fact that the conversation had to even come up (let alone the fact it was met with great reception) is a pretty sad state of affairs and one I personally believe will happen next year.


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## bevann (Nov 10, 2009)

I think it would be very helpful if topics to be discussed were included in the issue of THE JOURNAL preceding Convention.This would give everyone time to think about the issues.However this would mean that the Journal had to come in a timely manner which it often does not due to many circumstances. I was not able to attend this year due to surgery, but plan to be there next year.I have attended many conventions and have felt several times that things were not always clearly represented by the board .one particular item that comes to mind from many years ago was the breakdown of income from Miniature versus Shetlands.Mini income was 10 to 1 versus Shetland income , but when I questioned it I was told it was not a true picture and then it was quickly moved on to another subject. I hope to find out from my friends who attended what went on.I am so sorry I had to miss it.


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## Karen S (Nov 10, 2009)

Good Morning All,

As someone who have been attending our ASPC/AMHR conventions since 1998 (this was my 12th convention) what disappoints me the most is putting out the author of those proposals whey they are to remain annonymous until convention so that they aren't given a hard time. These proposals which were on the clubs website weren't even written in their entirely for the majority that were turned in. If they are to be presented ahead of time, they at least need to be typed on the sight the way they were presented. When a committee chair takes then and condenses them down, it waters down what the author was trying to relay. I had to ask several times that the proposal be read the way it was presented so we all could make an informed decision.

For those that are new or don't know, in the past we USE to be able to bring a proposal to the floor of the convention as long as we had 100 copies. We voted several years back (I'm thinking in 2001) that we couldn't do that anymore as it took up way too much time in those meetings. With submitting them by July 1st it gives the committee chairs a chance to send them on to their committee members to review and discuss along with the opportunity for the registry to post them in time for everyone to look over and give their thoughts as well. I did have one person stand up in my amateur committee meeting that had not been in a long time wanting to bring a change up, but had to tell them that they needed to submit the change by July 1st of 2010. They didn't know that it had been changed since it had been several years since they had attended.

Since my committee met after lunch on friday, I did have my 100 copies of my agenda already out on each chair so when everyone came back to be part of the meeting they already had in their hands the full proposals and what we were going to discuss. I felt our meeting ran smoothly, the proposals were voted on and noted, handed out the End of the Year recording forms for the End of the Year awards (those are due by December 1st) and adjourned. We had a good representation of amateurs there this year.

I look forward to seeing everyone again next year.

Karen Shaw

Chairman

Amateur Committee

PS: If you need a End of Year Form, please email me at : [email protected] with your name and mailing address and I'll drop those in the mail to you.

Thanks.


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## LaVern (Nov 10, 2009)

Karen, I have always wondered. When you send your proposals in by July 1. Where do these committee meetings take place to discuss the proposals and decide if they should go to the Convention and be posted in the Journal for all to see. I mean they have to meet somewhere if they are to be in the Journal that far in advance, right? Am I right that the committees have the right to submit them or change them or throw them in the trash?


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## Karen S (Nov 10, 2009)

Lavern,

On the proposals that I prepared for the Amateur committee, my members got their copies in July to look over and let me know if they had any questions. For those that I submitted to the other committees, a copy went to the committee chair, a copy to the office and I had a copy of my original with me at convention. The office makes a copy for ALL of the directors. All proposals are considered even those that could be almost written the same. We did have a couple that almost read the same for the Modern Pleasure meeting. In order to alter any proposal at convention, the author of that proposal HAS TO BE THERE. If not, then we have to vote the way it was written. There were a couple of good ones, but since the author WAS NOT THERE, then we had to vote it down so that the language could be cleaned up and brought back next year.

I know a couple of proposals were signed by two people that were presented. If you CANNOT make a convention, but have a proposal you like to submit, it's better to find out someone that will be going, have both of you sign the proposal so if it needs to be amended in anyway, you have representation to do so. With the two minute gate rule, it needed to be amened to two minutes AFTER all horses entered the ring, not when the gate opend. Had to vote it down the way it was written since the author was not there.

Karen


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## LaVern (Nov 10, 2009)

Thank You Karen. That was very easy for me to understand and cleared up some of my misunderstanding. I am going to save your note. Renee


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## sfmini (Nov 10, 2009)

How are they going to determine when all the horses have entered the ring? The people are going to be gaming it for sure if it is not clearly spelled out. I know I do try to wait to go in so I don't have to make a couple of trips around the ring while others mess around going in slowly. This is at AMHA with a 2 minute gate and there is always plenty of time. Maybe it should have been noted that the two minutes can be extended as long as the horses are entering the ring in a continuous stream, or something like that.

As for a lawyer, what you need is a licensed Parliamentarian who knows Roberts Rules of Order inside and out and also familiarizes themselves with the rule book, especially the by-laws. They aren't cheap, but I would think cheaper than a Lawyer would be and would be much more effective. JMHO.


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 10, 2009)

Jody that came up as well it is a great suggestion all I know is a pretty large group of people have decided they will come with some sort of representation next year and not count on the registry and whatever reps or person they do or do not bring in. to me this is a pretty sad state of affairs and actually something I never thought I would personally agree was necessary


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## Mona (Nov 10, 2009)

sfmini said:


> As for a lawyer, what you need is a licensed Parliamentarian who knows Roberts Rules of Order inside and out and also familiarizes themselves with the rule book, especially the by-laws. They aren't cheap, but I would think cheaper than a Lawyer would be and would be much more effective. JMHO.


Unfortunately, as has been proven time and time again in some meetings of other organizations, this is not fool-proof and even having a paid paliamentarian in attendance has still resulted in rule and by-law violations. Perhaps Lisa's suggestion of a lawyer is a better, albeit more costly alternative to ensure rules are being followed by committee members.


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## Amy (Nov 10, 2009)

No -- the youth qualifications for National will remain the way they are now.

This changed back a few years ago -- and all changes to the way they are now required to qualify -- failed by a very large majority.


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## Amy (Nov 10, 2009)

Hmmm - I wonder if I was at the same convention??

Yes, there was a large group of very noisy people out in the hall at all times, yackking away & making it very difficult to hear in the room. Perhaps , if they had come in & joined in there would be less confusion??

I saw a group of VERY weary directors coming out of their meeting at about 11:30 PM on one day, Yet , they were up & at the meeting in the early morning.

I sat in the front row or two so I could hear above the background rumbles -- and I never had a question to ask that I didn't get ananswer for. Perhaps not the one I would have liked from MY view point -- but an explanaton at least.

I spoke with many different directors from many different areas, and asked questions from many of them. ALL of them (except one) took the time to discuss my concerns with me. My own director was very good at any explantion I asked for.

IF so many people have so much to criticize, perhaps they should run for office & see just how easy it really is to do everything by the book & to follow procedure.

As one director pointed out to me "The association spent a great deal of time and money to develop & print the RULEBOOK -- so we better darn well follow it.

I am disappointed and frustrated to see how quick we are to criticize and bash our fellow members who I think are trying hard to do a good job.

Some don't like this President -- others didn't like the last President & I am quite sure there will be just as many that will NOT like the next President -- regardless of who it is. Why is this I wonder??

Also -- I did not hear any announcement made at the Arabian Nights saying that Bruce Becker & Zona had donated the ponies. I knew they had, and asked Zona which one she had donated and she told me a bit of the history behind that pony -- which I found interesting.

I did find the convention was much smaller this year than at some previous ones that I had attended. Also, like many of the rest of you -- I think there were a lot of "out in the Hall" meetings held to stir the pot up to a slow simmer at least. I found this rather distastefull.

I wonder how successful we would be if we put ALL of our enenrgy behind our official representatives, instead of bringing them down with negative comments ??

I didn't think I had missed any meetings but obviously missed the one where all the directors ran out & left 2 or 3 people sitting in the room. !!!!


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## Gypsygal (Nov 10, 2009)

I am just curious - what exactly was not discussed. Seems like there is a lot of generalizations but no specifics. I also was disappointed when I went to convention but I think for other reasons. What were these topics that were not discussed in the meetings?


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## squeaky (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi,

Can someone please explain more onto what the minis into USEF means? Are they becoming a recognized breed through USEF and will USEF offer awards for USEF members competing in mini classes, similar to what is going on for the shetland pony? Will our mini shows count towards accumulating points for USEF, or will we need to find other USEF approved shows to compete in? Or should I be asking these questions to the USEF board?

Amanda


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## muffntuf (Nov 11, 2009)

That's a great question and I didn't even know we were thinking of putting the miniatures under the umbrella of the USEF rules and regs. So that is a good question. What does it mean for the registered miniatures in AMHR?


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 11, 2009)

Yes that is what it means they will now be a recognized breed under USEF which does offer great breed promotion. Of course if and when you attend a USEF show the fees will be much higher but that will be your choice to do so. Judges will pay more to hold a card under USEF but again that is a choice not a requirement. they do have awards members of USEF can apply for and a great youth program again for their members

There were in fact more then one meeting where there were not a lot of BOD present and some where not a single one was present - granted at one point for a couple meetings towards the end I believe Youth and whatever was after youth they did have a emergency board meeting

Amy perhaps it was cause you were not in the back of the room but if you were you would have seen many directors were not in the room if it was not there committee (which is fine that is there choice)

I will say this again unless you are actually in the board room you have no idea how your director is representing your area. More then a couple told me they felt a certain way on different issues and yet had not problem voting with the majority even after they approached me and told me how wrong they felt this issue or that issue was.

You have no idea what your director is saying about the majority in your area during those meetings I can tell you while I have been in open board meetings before this one was by far the most eye opening experience. You quickly get to see alot about ethics and integrity or even lack thereof.


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## Karen S (Nov 11, 2009)

Good Morning All,

The ASPC/ASPR has been a member of USEF for several years now but the miniatures were not. Now we have both types of horses under the umbrella of USEF. I am currently a member, have been a member for close to five years now and have renewed my membership for 2010. One of the most important part of being a USEF member is their liability insurance. I asked if any of our club shows (the ASPC/AMHR Club of N. Texas) can become a recognized show of USEF so that our members can reap some of the awards that they do offer. We did visit about the posibility so that our members can enjoy the awards they offer and most of our judges are already carded USEF judges as well.

Right now in my hands, since I'm a current USEF member I get to vote for the Pony of the Year for the Shetlands. There are some very nice contenders and will be hard to decide as to who should win as they all are fine examples that represent our Registry, but sadly only one can obtain the award. The miniatures will now be able to compete for those same honors.

The USEF is very excited about us coming into their association as it will allow them the opportunity to promote us. Go to the USEF website and you will see who and what organizations are current members. If it wasn't for the BOD picking who would be on the USEF committee as a member I would gladly be a representive. Their annual meetings are held in January. The Shetlands already have their own section of the USEF rulebook, and what isn't covered under our rules falls back to the rules of the USEF. They are very strong numbers wise and I'm proud to say we as a Registry are part of them. It will help in recognizing us as a Registry and start getting the repect that we need. Those of you that didn't go to the USEF meeting or see their presentation, you missed something that will be a great asset to our association. I urge each and everyone to obtain a membership with USEF if for nothing else their million dollar liability coverage. It's well worth the membership fee.

Thanks for letting me share.

Karen


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 11, 2009)

Karen I agree and hearing about the youth program or award that one of our kids got and what it enabled them to do and see that is a wonderful thing!

I to thought the insurance sounded great and loved the sound of the facebook type of thing they offer. I thought the 2 did great jobs presenting in both the different committee meetings despite being hounded relentlessly by a couple of people




They stuck around and were there to answer questions I thought both of them were not only nice( spent some time talking with them around the hotel) but were both very professional as well.


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## Sandee (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm curious about this insurance you're talking about. Is this something each person is covered under or is it something that our clubs could get? I tried to look at their site and don't see anything relating to insurance coverage for joining. Anyone have more information?


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## ~Lisa~ (Nov 11, 2009)

I was not taking notes in that session but did talk to the reps several times thru out the week. I am pretty sure the coverage is for each member when you join you go under there group insurance (might not be the right term) and you get covered for liablity under that individual membership I am sure Karen can explain it much better cause I think she knows alot about insurance


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## LaVern (Nov 11, 2009)

Had to think about this for a bit. Sounds like to me that the AMHR miniature horses are now a recognized breed. The first and the only. Very Cool. Guess, I didn't have to wait so long after all.


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## LaVern (Nov 11, 2009)

Karen, Am I reading too much into this? I never thought I would live to see it. But, am I right in thinking that the USEF (United States Equine Federation) (The big one). Has officially recognized the AMHR miniature as a breed.

If that is right, I think I am going to cry. This is saying that in the miniature horse world that the plain old AMHR miniature horse A or B is the main man. We are to be acknowledged as to be on the same level as any other breed, right? Can this be true? I am stunned. [SIZE=18pt]Only[/SIZE] AMHR doesn't sound so bad anymore.


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## Minimor (Nov 11, 2009)

I rather imagine the insurance is on a per member basis, not a club basis. We have the same sort of insurance available here, if you are an Equine Canada member you get the insurance.

The bad thing is (IMO) that in order to show at many shows (western, H/J and many open shows) you must have an EC membership in order to show. If you want to show at just that one show it's an extra $25 which IMO is an added expense that I don't care to pay. I have liability insurance otherwise and am not impressed to have to buy a membership to have more.

I never want to see the Minis here be required to show under EC rules and have to buy an EC membership in order to show--Canadian owned Shetlands showing at the Royal, I believe, are required to have Canadian registration. I don't see Canadian Mini owners being thrilled if they had to obtain Canadian registration on their Minis. In the first place registration is very expensive and in the second place the Canadian registry recognizes only those minis that are 34" and under. So, I hope that there is never any follow up requirements for a national membership to show AMHR in Canada. For that matter I hope it never becomes required for ASPC ponies owned in Canada to have CPS registration in order to show. CPS registration is $50 (or more, depending when they get registered). If it came down to that I would chose to not show rather than pay that kind of money for an extra registration fee.

USEF affiliation is great as long as it never leads to any requirement that here in Canada we have to be an EC affiliate!


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## SWA (Nov 11, 2009)

LaVern said:


> Karen, Am I reading too much into this? I never thought I would live to see it. But, am I right in thinking that the USEF (United States Equine Federation) (The big one). Has officially recognized the AMHR miniature as a breed. If that is right, I think I am going to cry. This is saying that in the miniature horse world that the plain old AMHR miniature horse A or B is the main man. We are to be acknowledged as to be on the same level as any other breed, right? Can this be true? I am stunned. [SIZE=18pt]Only[/SIZE] AMHR doesn't sound so bad anymore.


This was our first time attending the National Convention too. We didn't get to set in on all the meetings like we hoped, but did get to attend some and it truly was an eye opener for us on how all this registry stuff actually "works". We learned so much, the good, and yes the bad and the ugly too



, but for the most part it was a positive for us in all that we did learn....so far. That said, I realize now, there are great extents that we still need to continue "learning the ropes" of...and just look forward to continuing in that direction. I don't feel confident, myself, in commenting any further on the many issues that were discussed, because I don't feel adequately (yet) versed in all the topics to be able to contribute appropriately. I will comment on this one topic though, in that the above is one of the most enthusiastic positives that we took away from this convention in that we too, understood this to be the case...that the AMHR is now an officially recognized BREED!



Even my husband was most surprised and excited about this...granted...if we did in fact understand this to be the case.





Aside from all the political matters, the main purpose of us attending this convention...in all honestly, this being our very "FIRST" one in attendance, we were mostly just hanging out by ourselves just trying to take in all the "in's and out's" of how things function. It was confusing at times, extremely intense at times, but for the most part, I loved most just getting the opportunity to meet as many mini/pony folks as we could, and soak up the comraderie of the people that love our breed as much as we do. We just got our "feet wet" so to speak, with much more still to learn...and looking forward now to continue to strive in that direction...Lord willing.


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## dmk (Nov 11, 2009)

Amy said:


> Hmmm - I wonder if I was at the same convention??
> Yes, there was a large group of very noisy people out in the hall at all times, yackking away & making it very difficult to hear in the room. Perhaps , if they had come in & joined in there would be less confusion??
> 
> I saw a group of VERY weary directors coming out of their meeting at about 11:30 PM on one day, Yet , they were up & at the meeting in the early morning.
> ...


I was not sitting up front throughout the meetings. In a private conversation elsewhere I made note that not many directors were at the individual committee meetings. There were some. I was surprised. I also sat towards the back of the room and you get a different impression back there for sure. Many comments overheard, many people going in and out and many out in the hall conversing, but could be about anything I guess. Some came back in for the votes only and stepped back out.

I have disagreed with several people over several issues, but I will certainly stand up and say they have a right to state opinions. This is OUR registry and every vote counts as one. Regardless of how long you have been a member or where you live.


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## Karen S (Nov 11, 2009)

Renee,

Yes the ASPC/AMHR will now be recognized by the USEF.

Here is a copy of my renewal I got from USEF:

If you have recently renewed, please disregard this email.

The new USEF Competition year begins December 1, 2009. Renew your membership now. It is so easy when you log into your MY USEF Account and click on "2010 USEF Membership Application" under 2010 Competition Year. For your convenience and the best membership deal, you can opt for a three-year membership for $150.

The annual USEF Competing Equestrian membership costs only $55. As a competing member, you are eligible to participate at all USEF Licensed Competitions, receive "equestrian" magazine at no additional charge, a million-dollar personal excess liability policy for horse-related accidents that cause bodily injury or property damage to third parties, and the added benefits of USEF MemberPerks--a members-only discount program with unbeatable deals from companies like John Deere, Hertz, Sherwin Williams, USRider, FarmVet, LifeLock, Moxie and others.

Not participating in USEF Licensed Competitions but still want to be a member? There are member categories for you. With the USEF Equestrian membership, at $35, you receive automatic insurance along with the MemberPerks. If you are a college student who is busy studying and not competing, you can join as a USEF Collegiate member for $25. This is another non-competing membership that will give you the benefits of MemberPerks plus four issues of "equestrian" magazine to keep you well informed of equestrian sports. And Club Equestrian, which is only $15, gives you access to the MemberPerks program.

Renew your membership when it is convenient for you by renewing online at www.usef.org. USEF is pleased to announce that we can offer you the ability to pay for your membership renewal with a credit or debit card or by utilizing our newest electronic check payment method. We accept American Express, Visa, MasterCard and electronic check.

If you have questions, call the USEF Customer Care Center

and a personal agent will assist you. You may call 859.258.2472.

Monday through Friday, 8:30 am - 5:00 pm [ET]

UNITED STATES EQUESTRIAN FEDERATION: 4047 IRONWORKS PARKWAY : LEXINGTON, KY 40511 : 859.258.2472 : FAX 859.231.6662 : WWW.USEF.ORG

Again, this is a very good program and everyone should take advantage of even the cheap membership just for the liability aspect. I'm a licensed insurance agent for the State of Texas and can tell you that personal liability policies cost way more than $35 or $55 for a million dollars worth of coverage.

Karen

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## LaVern (Nov 11, 2009)

Man life is wonderful. You just don't know what each day is going to bring. You wake up thinking that it is just another day and low and behold something that you have dreamed about for years, becomes a reality. I truly thank those that have worked toward this goal for me and others. I bet if you put the stick on me today, I would be a little taller. Renee

I feel an ad coming on. I am going to join that outfit.


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## SWA (Nov 11, 2009)

LaVern said:


> Man life is wonderful. You just don't know what each day is going to bring. You wake up thinking that it is just another day and low and behold something that you have dreamed about for years, becomes a reality. I truly thank those that have worked toward this goal for me and others. I bet if you put the stick on me today, I would be a little taller. Renee I feel an ad coming on. I am going to join that outfit.







I ditto that...and PROUDLY SO!


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## SWA (Nov 11, 2009)

That said....and in light of this AWESOME NEWS....it does help to better understand NOW...the "why" of at least "some" of the proposals for change within the registry...some points are still confusing to me...but I'm learning.


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## dmk (Nov 11, 2009)

I am really happy as well that we opted for AMHR to join USEF. USEF has wanted this for a while as I understood it. It was AMHR that was holding back. Many people are unhappy about the fees and I understand that, but I see it as a positive step. I had the opportunity to spend some time with Laurie this summer and she is an awesome, positive* individual that is all about promoting the Shetland pony and the Miniature horse through USEF. They want more participation from us and are willing to work to help us in many ways.

edit to add *enthusiastic


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## squeaky (Nov 11, 2009)

I am also a member of USEF through showing Freisians, and my roommate showing dressag. I have always wondered why AMHR hadn't tried to get under USEF as they are a great form of advertisement and offer many services and discounts on services.

Karen - So if I am reading correctly, I show be urging my shows to pay more for the show to bcome a USEF rcongized show also and get points for USEF. I am just trying to figure out what it will take to get USEF points in order to be eligable for the awards they offer.





I am really excited that this has happened!! It's about time miniatures have become a recongized breed!!

Amanda


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## Sandee (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm just trying to understand what we are getting /"paying for" by joining USEF. Seems to me if everyone is a member then the shows you go to should not have to have liablity insurance. (I'm sure this is not the case but that's why I need more 'esplaining, Lucy".) Like I said I went to their site and I'm not good with computers but I couldn't find a flat "this is what we do and why you should join etc."


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## Karen S (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi Squeaky,

In visiting with Lori Nelson at Convention, they are going to look into what will work for our associaition in regards to any club show being recognized by USEF. Since we are a bit different in what and how our horses are shown they will probably create a program for us. Yes, I would probably pay a fee of about $35 (I have to pay a fee to the Registry anyway for our shows, and our club is a recognized club of the ASPC/AMHR), if by paying the USEF fee to recognize us, then I'll be sure it gets paid. By being recognized by USEF, we (our horses) will therefore get to reap some of their benefits of the awards. It's still something very new with them so when they get the kinks worked out it should be something that every sanctioned ASPC/AMHR show would want to do. We just have to give them time to look into it. It may not happen for 2010, but I would suspect it could for 2011.

Sandee:

I think you are getting two things confused. The USEF personal liability is included in their membership fee. Go re-read what I posted there. All sanctioned club shows with the ASPC/AMHR HAS TO HAVE a 1 Million dollar liability policy on file with the Registry. 2008 ASPC/AMHR Rulebook, page 58 #4: Proof of Insurance-sanctioned shows must carry General Liability Insurance with a minium $1,000,000.00 aggregate limit. Shows will not be sanctioned until such proof is on file in the ASPC/AMHR/ASPR Show Department. For those that don't know, a General Liability policy protects the club up to the 1 Million for any accidents that might occure where the club would be liable. The ASPC/AMHR will also be named as an "Additional Named Insured" which also protects them and most of the time your show facilities will also be included as an "Additional Name Insured" Depending on what insurance companies are used as to how much your policy will cost. My club's 1 Million dollar policy covers three shows that are three full days and I pay for a policy that is for a year (Mine runs 3-9-09-3-9-10). We have to fill out a questionair that ask lots of questions as to what we do and don't do.

The USEF site is very easy to navigate and you need to go to the left side and click on the different side bars to see what is under each heading.

Good questions.

Karen


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