# Appaloosa/Pintaloosa Breeders; question



## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Nov 2, 2007)

Could those of you who breed appaloosa and pintaloosa coat patterns post your pattern crosses and resulting foal pattern? Just a little curiosity and 'research' on my part.. Don't have to post pictures just the crosses like I did down below (but wouldn't mind seeing pictures if you want to share!




)

Thanks in advance!

So far we've gotten:

Leopard X Snowcap= Snowcap (over hips)

and

Near Leopard X Snowcap= Snowcap (to withers)


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## kaykay (Nov 3, 2007)

I have one pintolossa mare (snowflake tobiano)

Bred to a splash/sabino stallion she had a silver bay solid filly with appy characteristics but never appied out

Bred to a sorrell pinto she had a solid sorrell filly that appied out (snowflake pattern) at 18 months

Bred back to first stallion mentioned she had a bay pinto filly that is just starting to show appy color. she has very heavy mottling and scelera and is I think staring to snowflake. So i believe this is her first pintolossa foal.

Interesting to me that bred to the same stallion she had two fillies that are exact opposites!


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Nov 3, 2007)

> Interesting to me that bred to the same stallion she had two fillies that are exact opposites!


Thanks KayKay! The statement above is why I love the apps, you never know what they're going to give ya!


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## HGFarm (Nov 3, 2007)

If the horse had characteristics but just no spots, it is still considered an Appy. When looking at 'colored foals' from the offspring of Appaloosas, horses with characteristics are considered 'colored'. (and many color out in later years- I knew one who colored at 13!!)

Breeding a silver dapple varnish roan with spots over his hips to a roan Appy mare, I got a silver dapple snowcap.

Bred the same stallion to a snowflake mare, got a silver dapple with characteristics.

Bred the same stallion to a black mare, got a dark silver dapple with characteristics.

Bred the same stallion to a chestnut non appy mare, got a chestnut colt with characteristics.

Bred a sorrel stallion with a light blanket and spots over just the rear to the above roan Appy mare four times. Got a filly with characteristics that was roaning out with some spots too, two colts solid with characteristics, both that were roaning out, and the fourth was born with white and black spots over his hips and was also roaning out.

Bred the same sorrel stallion to a leopard mare, and got a few spot.

Bred the same stallion to a chestnut mare with frost and got a chestnut with characteristics.

Bred a loud red leopard stallion to the roan Appy mare and got a leopard colt, same breeding has produced a filly that is roaning out, but no spots showing in it.

Bred the leopard stallion to the leopard mare above, and got a solid filly- not a white hair anywhere.

Bred the same stallion to another roan appy mare and got a solid colt with no characteristics at all.

Bred the leopard to the mare with frost and got a chestnut colt with characteristics.

These colors are all listed as they were at birth and then what they were doing by weaning time.

Now have the leopard bred to the varnish roan, the chestnut with frost, the leopard mare and the roan mare to see what we get this year!!


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## Tammie-C_Spots (Nov 3, 2007)

I did some appy x pinto crossing as well as some good research on crossing them. The least color production tended to be a pinto with tobiano only as it's pattern or an appy with minimal color. Best crosses for that "wow!" color will be your tovero, splash or other overo patterns crossed on loud appaloosas (blankets, leopards). Not that that loud pattern is needed it's just color will be expressed less with less expression in the parents.

With tobi to appy crosses (blanket appy) mostly what was producted was the tobi pattern with snowflaking in the darker areas, maybe a few spots or smallish blanket over the hips blending into the white of the tobi.

With the overo to appy you'd get the white on the face, maybe socks or stockings, some crazy patterning on the neck in white splotching or big snowflaking, big blankets and more of a 50/50 mix of the color. with tobi x appy it was more 80 tobi color and 20 appy.

Just my observations





Tammie

oh, you can check out both tobi and overo appy crosses on my "appy color pages" as I have a page and a half of photos and info at:

app pages


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## Magic (Nov 3, 2007)

Here are the foals I've had from just one of my appaloosa mares, who is a red roan with just a couple of white appy spots, and appy characteristics. She's pictured hairy (not clipped at all).



Wild Winds Frost Fire, pictured with one of her more recent foals.

Frost's first foal was by a blue roan appaloosa stallion who had a blanket and spots. She had a blue roan appy filly with a huge blanket and big spots. Pictured here is Frost with that filly as an older broodmare.






Her next foal was by a leopard appaloosa, and she foaled a blue roan appaloosa colt with blanket and spots:






Her next foal was by the previously-mentioned blue roan appaloosa stallion, and she had a colt that was born looking sorrel with a blanket, but who, when clipped out, looked white. He had mottling, sclera, etc.






Her next foal was sired by a near-leopard appaloosa. This stallion sired only three foals for me, and only one had appaloosa coloring at birth, the other two (fillies) were solid black. This mare is still solid black as a five year old, but she does have quite a bit of white in her tail, and some white hairs scattered throughout her body, and sclera.






Her next foal was sired by a black and white pinto stallion, no appy breeding. Her resulting colt was born black, with appy characteristics, and by the time he was two years old had snowflake spots all over his body. Sorry I don't have a picture of him colored out on my computer.






Her next colt was sired by a solid (no appy breeding) dark bay ASPC/AMHR stallion. This colt was born with the blanket and spots.






Her next foal was a filly by a silver bay minimal sabino ASPC/AMHR stallion. This filly has some odd markings, such as large "chocolate" colored patches on both sides of her lower abdomen. I'm not sure what they are. She has striped feet (tho those could be attributed to the silver, as she is also a silver bay like her sire). Appy or not appy, I'm still not really sure (but I LOVE this filly)





The sire of the previous filly died just days after the filly's birth (devastating to me) and I was without a stallion, so I went back to the owner of the stallion (leopard appaloosa) who sired this mare's second-born, and they produced a full sister to my blue roan appy gelding. She was born jet black with white hooves, which subsequently have striped, and she has a LOT of mottling now as a yearling.






and her most recent foal, who is by my leopard stallion, CCMF Spotted Illusion:




This is a black snowcap colt.

It's interesting to see the variety of colors that this mare has produced, and to see that some of her loudest colored foals were by non-appy sires.


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## Lucky-C-Acres-Minis (Nov 3, 2007)

Wow, thanks Tammie!

Just looking into what crosses of patterns have tended to produce more patterning and at what degree.. Kind of interesting





Right now we have our black varnish near leopard overoloosa with sabino/splash crossed on our mares of:

bay tobiano (mostly white except for head (has a star and just this past year has gotten some white hairs starting to come in in the bay area) and huge bay spot on her right side) So far she has thrown two solid bay foals with no white

black tobiano (50/50 colored with blaze and two blue eyes) So far I believe has thrown all tobiano foals, but I think she has mainly been crossed on tobiano stallions so could not say for sure if she was homozygous or not since she has not been tested (foal she is carrying is her first foal for us)

solid black/bay (no white markings, sire was black/white tobiano stallion and dam was an appaloosa but did not get any coloring or characteristics.. she is the dam to the first bay tobiano mare, has thrown tobiano from a tobiano stallion (who I believe was homozygous though wasn't tested) and has thrown solid filles (one with a star other without) by solid black stallion)

silver dapple pintaloosa (shows mainly appaloosa markings and characteristics; most of her foals have been pinto marked, did throw one loud leopard filly by Fallen Ash Farms Robin Hood (solid black)

grulla varnish snowcap (has not had a solid foal (that I know of); first foal for us was bay snowcap colt (over hips, starting to get white spots throughout his dark areas but snowcap is not geting larger) and this year crossed to the same stallion, gave us a black varnish colt with snowcap all the way to the withers (and still getting white)


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## Lost Spoke Ranch (Nov 3, 2007)

Hello Lucky C Acres:

You are welcome to browse our website which includes an extensive archive of the app/pinto horses we've produced throughout the past decade. Visit our stallion’s page with links to the former stallions we’ve owned and bred with pictures of their offspring along with our up and coming stallions we will be breeding in the future. http://lostspokeranch.com/stallions.html

I hope you find it helpful in your information gathering.

Dawn


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## Kim~Crayonboxminiatures (Nov 3, 2007)

I've done only one pinto to appy cross, but lots of solid x appy crosses, you can see photos of all of them on my webpages.

sorrel sabino/tobiano mare x black leopard appy stallion

1.black tobiano pintaloosa w/star and spots on flanks

Crayonbox Wild West Surprise

2.bay tobiano/sabino pintaloosa w/ spots all over darker areas

Crayonbox Made You Look

solid mares x same leopard appaloosa stallion

bay mare

1. solid bay

2. bay w/roaning

black mare

1.solid black

2.solid black

3.solid black

black appy bred mare:

1.black possible fewspot/snowcap

2.black leopard

silver bay true roan mare:

1.black true roan & appy roan

2.black true roan

black snowflake appy roan:

1.black leopard

And last solid mares x snowcap w/ one blue eye & splash white markings

solid bay

1.bay roan appaloosa w/snip

solid black

1. black w/ 2 blue eyes appaloosa roan


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## bluerogue (Nov 4, 2007)

We have two pintaloosa mares... one of which is a 4 year old maiden. I bred her this year tio my stallion for one heat cycle, but she didn't take.

The other mare has 3 foals on the ground. SHe is a black pintaloosa, but her only appy markings would be considered characteristics. She has mottling like crazy, and has sclera. Although, she does appear to be varnish roaning now, as a 7 year old. I'm not 100% sure that's what she's doing, but it's the only thing I can think of that would explain it!

She's had: 1 filly, born pintaloosa (I think... we didn't own her until the filly was weaned and sold, so I never did get a super good look at her). Filly was sired by a loud leopard (possibly pintaloosa) stallion, black as base color if memory serves. I've never seen him in person so I can't say. Haven't seen filly since she was a suckling, so don't know what she looks like now, although I've been told she matured very nicely, and is quite pretty.

Foal #2 is a blanketed black colt, by a solid black stallion with pinto breeding. We still have him, and his blanket is spreading ever so slightly. He has not roaned, but has developed a lot of mottling he didn't have as a baby.

Foal #3 was born solid bay colt with sclera. Sired by a gorgeous sorrel leopard appy, with varnish roan (so maybe technically not a leopard?). Colt is now varnishing out, and has developed a TON of mottling. His pattern is progressing quite rapidly, since this spring it went from nothing, to covering his back clear up to his shoulders. He does not have spots per se, it appears to be a roaning pattern. I have no idea what he'll look like when he's done. If he doesn't slow down, though, I think he may end up white before too long.

This mare looks pinto, until you get up close and see the mottling. To my knowledge, she only throws the appy. The filly may have been a pintaloosa, but she was a leopard, and it was very hard to tell. I also do not know if the sire was a pintaloosa, or straight appy. It's very interesting to me that she hasn't thrown her pinto yet. This mare's markings are horrible (you have to see her to see what I mean... she's a very correct mare conformationally, but her markings make her look ugly. Her head isn't pretty, and that doesn't help her either, lol), but she sure has pretty appy babies.


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