# Driving on Pavement



## Jill (Aug 12, 2011)

There are a number of local places, and a couple of parks not too far off, where Harvey and I would like to drive our minis on pavement (not high car traffic areas). I've ridden my big horses lightly on pavement in the past, but when it comes to driving minis, I'm hoping for advice as to whether some hoof gear is a good idea on the front, and if so, would love some recommendations.

Thanks!


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## maggiemae (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't have an answer for you - just wanted to say I'd be interested in hearing advice as well. I had two horses I drove on pavement. I tried everything - put gravel down in their dry lot to toughen up their soles; tried gradually building up working on pavement very slowly; I tried dura sole, and turpentine to harden their soles so they wouldn't be sore. In truth the gelding ended up having arthritis but my mare also still gets sore on the pavement. I bought special made hoofwing boots for the front but they rub her and the backs got sore, and I can't find any other boots that are sized to fit. Not sure if she just doesn't like the difference or new-ness of the surface or sound of the pavement or if it is actually making her sore. PS also, what I found to be true on pavement was that the back hooves were more sore on my driving horses than the front - I think they actually push forward into the breast collar from the rear end. - my daughter's riding horse gets a little ouchy on the front if she doesn't wear her boots.


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## Jill (Aug 12, 2011)

We have access to a very, very long private driveway and some gorgeous parks nearby that have paved "walk ways" open to horses, dogs, etc. I've just never taken the time to ask others about the foot gear but am hoping to have some new driving locations this fall after we work out the logistics of what the horses would require on their feet... and "finally" getting to the bottom of it may fuel my fire to get three of my favorite geldings in harness


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 12, 2011)

I believe footing on pavement is all about the right hoof trim. I used to have some trouble with Dapper Dan slipping, but once he got trimmed correctly he never has trouble any more. We do a lot of trotting on pavement and he does fine. I think it has to do with the bars being able to grip? but maybe that is the wrong term. My dil is a certified barefoot trimmer and I feel so fortunate to have been introduced to that trimming method!

It took over a year for her to get Dapper Dan's foot into the correct shape, and it is ongoing.

Dusty has been trimmed correctly since I've had him and he has never had a problem on pavement.

My new driving friend couldn't even drive hers on pavement, but now that he has had only two corrective trims, he is very surefooted on pavement.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Aug 12, 2011)

Jill said:


> ...but am hoping to have some new driving locations this fall after we work out the logistics of what the horses would require on their feet... and "finally" getting to the bottom of it may fuel my fire to get three of my favorite geldings in harness


That's great, Jill!



Horses like having a job and you've got some really wonderful geldings I'd love to see in harness. Share pix when you get going!

As for the footing itself, I wish I knew what to tell you. Kody always got so tender after being trimmed short that he couldn't stand the mere thought of concrete which is just about all I have to drive on- drove me crazy! I got a new farrier who leaves his hooves much longer at my request so no more hoof ouchies. Then once his feet have toughened after a trim we have the issue with his joints getting ouchy from the concussion. Lots of long, slow pavement work has pretty much fixed that. I spent a year just walking him on pavement and upping the amount of trot work he did on the grass sections between crossroads and slowly introduced a little bit of trotting on concrete (like just crossing a driveway) until he stopped hesitating as we got to it and started powering across. He told me when pavement stopped being an issue and now we do flying road trots up our street! (Love the sound of those little hooves ticka-tapping!)

From what I've read they have to build up bone density just like human runners do but if done carefully it's actually good for them.

It does tend to wear their feet down though. With Kody's wonky leg conformation he gets all sorts of uneven wear patterns and I have to really keep up on them with the rasp or they get out of control. Using Vettech SuperFast to build a glue shoe keeps them from getting worn down but also makes them slip like crazy on concrete. I'm interested in trying some boots but haven't seen one in mini size that impressed me yet or would actually fit my A-sized horses. If you live in a dry area you can try the Vettech Sole-Guard, that's a great product that Kody told me he really liked but with all our rain I can't get it to stay in for more than a week so I quit trying. Too bad as it really cushioned him on the hard ground.

So to boil it down, I'd say start by letting them grow out some good hoof and see how they do.





Leia


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## susanne (Aug 12, 2011)

Our rails-to-trails path is a mish-mash of asphalt, broken asphalt, gravel and dirt. Mingus HATES the gravel, loves the dirt, but his favorite by far is the asphalt. He really moves out on those sections.

When we lived in town, we hand-walked regularly on concrete sidewalks and asphalt streets.

One very important thing to keep in mind is that in warm, dry weather, asphalt has a great deal of give, allowing their hooves to grip and lessening the hoof concussions. Cold, wet weather makes it hard and slippery (duhhh -- nothing like restating the obvous!)

Concrete, on the other hand, is always hard and potentially slippery and is to be traversed with extreme caution.

I second Leia's advice of gradually building up their time on pavement and keeping their hooves a bit longer. Even a fraction of an inch more hoof has Mingus much less annoyed by gravel.

I've never seen any abnormal hoof wear from this.


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## MajorClementine (Aug 16, 2011)

I haven't driven any on asphalt but hubby does take Major running on the paved bike trial by our house. We started out with short walks then short jogs. Now they can do 4 miles with no problem. We do keep his feet rasped to the correct shape since he does wear a little uneven sometimes. I think, like any barefoot horse, it's all about what they get used to. If they are in a grassy pasture then you ask them to spend a lot of time on asphalt they will likely get sore. But if you condition them to the harder surface their feet and legs will get used to it. JMO


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## Sandee (Aug 17, 2011)

I personally don't like asphalt. My horses have slipped on it summer -- worse in winter. My elder gelding has actually gone to his butt while in the shafts in harness. I won't drive on it.


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## Katiean (Aug 18, 2011)

I have only had a problem with one of my mares feet driving on the road. The problem was her feet wore down fast. I have gotten her a pair of build a bear black high tops. I haven't used them yet. So, I don't know if they work for her. We have never had any problem with any of them slipping.


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## susanne (Aug 18, 2011)

The only problem we've had with slipping on asphalt is with suburban-type driveways...the ones that look like you could eat off of them. Two of our neighbors have those, and needless to say, we don't stop to visit on our drives. Our driving trail asphalt is old and soft...probably half dirt by now.

Keep in mind that there are many different types of asphalt, so drive accordingly.


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## Jill (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't think where I was planning to drive will be slippery (it's not "smooth" like the road), but I was worried about concussion on the foot from trotting on pavement...

My horses are goobers. I sometimes drive in a field across from our place, but to get there, we must first cross the road (not where I was planning to drive). There's a double yellow line and that must look like fire to horses. At first, they all balk and when we get a new horse delivered, that horse also "crosses the road" and leaps over the line of fire most often


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## susanne (Aug 18, 2011)

Too funny, Jill!

While horses' vision may be limited as to what colors they see, my oh-so scientific study (observation of our horses) tells me they see yellow. Big, brave Mingus has told me that yellow road stripes, yellow safety vests way down the rod, yellow hats, and some yellow garden shrubs are terrifying.


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 18, 2011)

I did a parade one time on a concrete street. The black lines in the street must have looked like Grand Canyons. I could hardly get my reliable Dapper Dan to advance with the parade. He has seen black lines since and didn't turn a hair--who knows what he saw that day?!


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## Jill (Aug 19, 2011)

Horses can be so funny and it's hard to know what they think they see. I won't ever forget the time Khaki totally freaked out (terrified) the first time she saw me in a dress!!!


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## Kawgirl (Aug 20, 2011)

I have a set of easy boots for Pepper, but they don't fit really well, and he doesn't like to wear them. I have to use the ankle straps, they will sometimes come off if we have to go through mud or loose dirt.

When I had riding horses, I remember reading about the damage that concrete and asphalt does to a horses legs and hooves if they are travelling faster than a slow trot. I don't know if it would be the same on the minis, but I keep Pepper at a walk with just an ocassional slow trot when on these surfaces.


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## Jill (Aug 20, 2011)

Yes, what you say is what I've always had in the back of my mind and haven't ever ridden my big horses on pavement because of that concern.


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## bannerminis (Aug 20, 2011)

We have a tar and chip surface on the roads here so its pretty rough as things go.

My farrier has said that he should be able to fashion a couple of very light shoes for him and to be honest I think front shoes would probably do.

It will be judged though on how he holds up with some road work. He has done a little and no major problem so I will wait and see and keep a close eye on his feet.


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## LazyRanch (Aug 29, 2011)

Europeans tend to do a LOT of roadwork with their horses. They start with coming off pasture in the off season, no shoes and a lot of walking to leg up. Where I lived we had Peacock Hill which was very steep and excellent for the next stage, where for muscling we walked up, forcing the great beasts to use each leg independently. Finally, we would jog and trot the roads for miles to condition wind and limb.

I have applied these tactics for the wee beasties. BUT I will say this: always tarmac, not the cement. Cement is very hard on the horses. Also, I live in a cheap county. They have resurfaced the roads with chip seal and some sort of rubber component. Chip seal tends to have a less slippy surface, but breaks up, so look out for new potholes. We can move at a fairly brisk trot. Also, I find working on the road gives us a nice straight line (enter at A, halt at C, etc.), room for serpentines and half circles, etc.

Make sure you have a SMV triangle (why, yes! I have been stopped by cops!!), and that your horse is fairly sane. Most drivers are so busy slowing to see how "cute" you are, but there are some jerks out there.

I do know people who use the Build-a-Bear shoes and are quite happy with them, BTW


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## hobbyhorse23 (Aug 29, 2011)

Okay, what the heck is the difference between "cement," "asphalt," "tarmac," "chip seal" and all the rest?!



I was using the terms interchangeably to mean "the hard stuff they pave roads in" but have no idea which is which.

Leia


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## LazyRanch (Aug 30, 2011)

Different areas use different kinds of road surfacing for different purposes and types of traffic. High traffic areas need a different surface than lower use, e.g. country roads, rural areas, cheapo counties. Freeways, bridges, toll roads are often of cement because of the rate of traffic, or water involvement - it doesn't erode as quickly.

What we used to call macadam - is pretty old, maybe even the oldest of the road surfaces. Macadam was essentially laying of tar over dirt. It wasn't much more useful than defining a roadway. But it was fine for horses and carts. Cars pretty much did it in, since they moved faster and would often rip chunks or strips of it up on a hot day. Rains would erode it fairly quickly.

Tarmac was an extension of these types of roads where an actual road "bed" was laid, usually crushed stone, then the tar poured over it. Easy to fix: wait for a hot day, front loader scooped the road over where it belonged, or more tarmac dumped in a hole, rolled over and done. Different types of aggregate stone was used, depending on what was locally available. Gradually less tar and more, different types of elements added to it kept it more stable.

This was the predominate road surface until cars got moving over 45 MPH and tore it all up. But you still see a lot of it - I can remember riding on hot days and leaving hoof prints in the road, or getting sticks and rolling road pitch on them, then making little animals out of it.

Asphalt roads had more petroleum in them and were less temperature sensitive. It was also a cheap by product of crude petroleum. The big deal with that was, it could be mixed with the rock aggregate and laid - like one mixes cement with stones - rather than the stones laid in a bed, and tar poured over it. The difference was basically that it formed a better (for cars) surface, smoother, less give, less likely to be pulled up off the dirt, or eroded from below. It is a harder, more durable surface, more slick, and less likely to melt either in the sun, or from the heat of bazillions of tyres incessantly running over it. It pretty much stays where you put it, doesn't erode much, unless the dirt under it was badly laid, not smooth, or lots of water gets under it, in which case the DIRT erodes and the asphalt road collapses into the erosion bowl underneath.

Chip seal, bless its heart, is the cheapo version of road surfacing - like that nylon harness on eBay. Money strapped counties love chipseal. It started out as bed liner for asphalt roads to keep that pesty erosion at bay. Chipseal is built in layers, as opposed to rock with tar poured over of tarmac, or mixed rock and "glue" of asphalt. So you get a skimpy layer of asphalt over an already laid road, then a layer of small to fine crushed rock or aggregate (chips), which is then rolled over the asphalt layer, then finally sealed with something waterproof or ??? Lately, Yavapai county has been adding a mix of recycled rubber to the mix. This allows for more cushioning for tyres, resulting in less tyre tear-up as cars go faster than the posted 35MPH, and therefore less repair. Chipseal can be repaired by dumping more chipseal layers on it, rather than having to rip up all the cement or asphalt and relaying it.

Cement is just that. It's hard, slick, retains oil, so in a rain the oil lifts and creates an even slicker surface. It's more water resistant, so is often used on freeways with grooves for water to run through, so cars don't slide - hydroplane!

So those are the basics:

*Tar* will pull shoes on a hot day but basically as good for driving as dirt. Bad for doggie paws: burns pads on hot days, freezes pads in icy weather - think sticking tongue on frozen pole.

*Tarmac* better than tar, worse than dirt, can be slick, depending on how its laid. Has more spring, i.e. less concussion on feet. I work on it at a good trot with no issues. European roads generally tarmac since speed limits are lower and weather not as hot.

*Asphalt* is sturdier/harder, doesn't tend to melt, can be slicker and is generally laid for faster traffic, so watch for faster cars. Great for working up and down hills, walking or slow jogs. Doesn't generate as much heat on a hot day as does tar and tarmac, so slightly cooler to work on. Not my fave but inevitable.

*Chipseal* pretty much can work at any speed of trot. I don't ever canter on any road surface - too much concussion, too slick, bad news in a spook. If the chipseal is new, check for chips in the hooves. My neighbour's horse had chips work themselves up to the coronary band, although I will say they had hoof problems to begin with with wall separations. Still, it can obviously happen and it's easier to use a hoofpick.

The best thing about chipseal is the things they can mix in it - or the worst. Our county is mixing rubber. The surface tends to have a texture, sharpish at first, then grading down as traffic runs across it, but always some sort of texture. Good for keeping hooves trimmed (better if you have a rasp and keep on them). The rubber helps cushion the shock value. It makes for good conditioning for the horses.

*Cement*, just leave that alone. If it's down, there is a reason: fast traffic, fast water, low lying road with flash flood crossing it. No more than a walk, just too hard. Very slippery. We have a cement bridge by my house, I walk across it just to get horses used to hollow footsteps sound. I hate it because there is no place to go if someone yahoos across it. If the horses spook, all their feet go different directions. Happily most of us here have horses and even the motor cycles will shut their engines if needed. But cement better left alone.

So Leia, there are road surface basics from a rider/driver point of view!

Sorry for long



hobbyhorse23 said:


> Okay, what the heck is the difference between "cement," "asphalt," "tarmac," "chip seal" and all the rest?!
> 
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> ...


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## hobbyhorse23 (Aug 30, 2011)

No, that's awesome, Cheryl! Thank you. Sounds like my roads around here are...*drumroll please*...chip seal! Only they don't bother to seal it. They just roll out a new layer (covering all the good grass side area last time), dump rock all over it and leave. It's heck on the horses for weeks!

I'm assuming cement is the stuff they floor buildings in, like convention centers and such? That stuff is so scary with horses! I do a harnessing demo in the Flower Building at the Cowlitz County Fairground every spring and am always worried about Kody's safety as he slips terribly even at a calm walk. They lay a carpet down for him to stand on.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Aug 30, 2011)

Cement (aka concrete, although there is a difference. Concrete is made from cement, gravel and water) is usually "white" (unless they put "color" in it for decorative purposes). Around here, all sidewalks and the Interstate system are concrete, as well as some driveways of people who can afford it. (Our driveway is gravel. Less runoff, more dirt in house...




)

Myrna


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## LazyRanch (Sep 2, 2011)

Absolutely correct, Myrna two different things with cement being a mix of wondrous things including silica, lime and I forget what all else. They are all mixed together and kilned, then pulverized into a fine-ish power, then added to concrete (and better mortar).

Concrete is a mix of aggregate - sand and gravel - cement, and water, preferably the least amount of water possible.

For my own part, I look at the ground and what I can make of it for my horses's feeties/hooflettes, whether they are shod or naked, age of the horse, his condition, where he will going and what he will be doing. So, while I understand that there are variations on themes, with regard to road surfaces, I kind of lump them in categories of how they will affect feet. Sad but true.

Like you, gravel driveway. Less runoff, more rocks in the house, better homeland for fire ants.







RhineStone said:


> Cement (aka concrete, although there is a difference. Concrete is made from cement, gravel and water) is usually "white" (unless they put "color" in it for decorative purposes). Around here, all sidewalks and the Interstate system are concrete, as well as some driveways of people who can afford it. (Our driveway is gravel. Less runoff, more dirt in house...
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> ...


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## susanne (Sep 3, 2011)

Another advantage to gravel (though less related to driving horses): our gravel road and driveway provide traction in all but the deepest snow and even some ice. Two of our neighbors who paved their long, steep driveways have to park their cars on the road in threatening weather, making it difficult for us to get past...grrrr.


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