# Measuring for a bridle



## MiniDashofBlue (Jan 9, 2010)

I have a gelding that has a very wide forehead so the blinkers on my bridle are hitting his eyes. I am going to get longer blinker stays-the pieces that hold the blinker away from the eye, but I am not sure how to measure his forehead. Do you measure from the inside corner of the eye to inside? Or outside to outside? Thanks in advance for any info.


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## Champ (Jan 9, 2010)

Does the blinkers have wires (covered by leather) that attach to them or is it just leather so they don't bend, if so have you tried bending the wire so the blinkers open up as wide as possible?


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## MiniDashofBlue (Jan 9, 2010)

Yes they have wire in them and are bent all the way out and still do not fit.


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## BannerBrat (Jan 9, 2010)

[SIZE=12pt]Perhaps a longer browband would help.[/SIZE]

Do you know what size your harness is? (A, B, etc)

If you do order the next size up blindered cheekpieces.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 10, 2010)

The easiest thing to do is measure the length of your current blinker stays and tell the manufacturer how much longer you need them to be. Otherwise I'd hold a measuring tape across his forehead from the outside of his eyelashes to the outside of the other eyelashes and tell the vendor that distance. Measure him for a browband at the same time to make sure everything works together properly. Start well behind the ear where a concho would lie, go across the forelock/forehead and behind the other ear. You can also measure your current brownband and say how much longer you want it to be. There should be plenty of room on a driving bridle and the crownpiece should not be pulled forward into the ears by the browband.

In both cases simply tell the vendor you're buying from exactly where you measured and they should be able to take care of it from there.






Leia


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## MiniDashofBlue (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks a bunch Leia! Exactly what I was wondering.


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## MinisOutWest (Jan 12, 2010)

all my A minis have a wide forehead, so I had to buy a pony browband and put it on their headstalls. I got mine from Ken at Estate Horse Supply. Instead of like a 15in browband, I had to get them a 17", much more comfortable.


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## RhineStone (Jan 12, 2010)

MinisOutWest said:


> all my A minis have a wide forehead, so I had to buy a pony browband and put it on their headstalls.


More room for brains!





My browbands range from 14"-16 1/2". The measurement may be different with the browband flat than bent across the horse's forehead. Since driving browbands don't lie "flat" on the horse's forehead like a riding bridle, the harness browband's measurement may be more than the horse's. Especially on minis, the winker stays will "push" the browband out a little. I find that not compensating for this action of the winker stays will pull the crown more into the horse's ears. See photo.






I would like the browband to be a little higher, but the face drop is making that impossible. Better too low than too high. The face drop is actually off my pony bridle and is not available in mini size from Driving Essentials. This is probably why. I still like it, though, better than without. I also would like to order a little longer winker stays/blinders. (I also want little fleur de lis ornaments on the blinders, face drop and false martingale as long as I am wishing.) Mini harnesses are SO hard to get perfect. There is only so much room....





Myrna


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 12, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> I would like the browband to be a little higher, but the face drop is making that impossible. Better too low than too high. The face drop is actually off my pony bridle and is not available in mini size from Driving Essentials. This is probably why. I still like it, though, better than without. I also would like to order a little longer winker stays/blinders. (I also want little fleur de lis ornaments on the blinders, face drop and false martingale as long as I am wishing.) Mini harnesses are SO hard to get perfect. There is only so much room....
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Hehe, I guess I'm not that hot on the Driving Essentials harness after all! All the things I was impressed by are the parts you had to custom order off other harnesses or jury-rigged yourself.



Sounds familiar.





I have a bridle like you're describing with patent (proportionate!) teardrop, fleur de lis ornaments on that, the blinders and my martingale, curved crownpiece and custom winker stays. They are actually on SALE right now, by themselves (I had to buy the whole show harness to get it two years ago!) from Ozark. You might call Lisa and ask her about them. Since they're on sale I'm assuming it's an overstock or something so you might not be able to customize them but it's worth a try.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Jan 12, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> RhineStone said:
> 
> 
> > I would like the browband to be a little higher, but the face drop is making that impossible. There is only so much room....
> ...


Leia, I'm not sure that you are comparing apples to oranges. The Ozark harness that has all the bells and whistles that you like on mine is their CDE Show Harness for $1500!



It has the rein terrets and the teardrop. Granted it includes a Fitted V breastcollar and I use a FC, but for that $, I am still ahead. I think the reason that the rein terrets are not included on the DE harnesses is because the average mini horse owner is not going to pay for the upgrade. (Let's face it, typical mini drivers won't pay NEAR what big horse drivers pay for good equipment! Just for fun, what is the most you have ever heard of a mini driver spending on their most expensive single-horse turnout?



)

As far as the teardrop not being standard and causing the browband to be low, it is because I have it put through the small leather loop on the backside of the browband and behind the winker stays, which is where it is supposed to be. http://www.drivingessentials.com/pop%20up%..._gig_bridle.htm (I picked this photo b/c it was the easiest to see.)

I suppose I could cop out and put the whole face drop under the winker stays, like Ozark does. However, would rather have my browband a little low, than to have a judge think that I don't know where the face drop is supposed to go. I think that DE had decided that they would rather not put out a product that is incorrect for the sake of style. It's probably not worth redesigning for the few that would like it and would pay the $. Again, there is only so much room. (Really, I wouldn't mind having a leather sewing machine and designing my own harness



, but that is out of the question. $$$)

This is my turnout from last year without the teardrop, and you can see how the browband is higher (actually, a little crooked, should have fixed that



). However, in the competition that I have, I felt that I needed all the extras I can get. That is why I borrowed the DE raised leather facedrop off my small pony harness. (I also put that white hat back in the hat box for a different turnout. Yuck!



Like the shape, it's just TOO white!)


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## Minimor (Jan 12, 2010)

I thought Leia was talking about just the bridle, with the patent tear drop, etc--that is what is on sale now, I think for $149?

As for the most expensive Mini turnout....Smart Cart & Ozark's CDE harness for a total of what? Just under $4000? Not me, but someone I know....I couldn't afford the CDE harness, so had to "make do" with a customized carriage harness...so my turnout is more like $3000. A little more than what I had in my big horse driving turnout....a $500 harness and a $400 EE cart!! LOL With the big horses I had Stubben saddles and top of the line custom made ranch saddles, but didn't put quite as much into the driving gear.


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## RhineStone (Jan 12, 2010)

Some of that discussion goes back to a different thread, not quite related to this topic.





We just bought a used horse-size marathon vehicle for $4500. New that model is about $7K. (Actually, the Bank of Chad's Mom bought it for now.) I was conversing with a well-known carriage builder a couple months back about building a mini vehicle, and he didn't know who he would market it to. My point was just to figure why some parts of the Driving Essentials harnesses are not standard. Regardless. It is water under the bridge. Again, not totally related to topic at hand.

Leia, you have me thinking about that bridle.



For that kind of $, it might be good just to have an extra bridle, even for working multiple horses with the same harness! The bridle always seems to be the most challenging to adjust. I could switch out the parts that I want to (weren't you just saying something about that?). I brought my bridle in the house tonight to measure and call Ozark tomorrow. No sense getting it if it doesn't fit.

Sorry for my previous rants.



I think I'm a bit stressed. I had a wine cooler now tonight, so I should be better.



I'm a cheap date.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 12, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Leia, I'm not sure that you are comparing apples to oranges. The Ozark harness that has all the bells and whistles that you like on mine is their CDE Show Harness for $1500!
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Huh??



I'm not comparing anything- as Minimor stated, I was merely mentioning that a bridle with fleur de lis like you described is available and on sale by itself right now. (The CDE harness actually doesn't have the blinker decorations; I was talking about their Deluxe Rolled Leather show harness.) All I meant was that the parts I was admiring on the DE harness you pictured on the Verbage thread are all turning out to be things you added or special ordered, not parts that just come with the harness as I'd hoped. That made it less interesting to me since I'm already piecing together harness and was hoping to avoid that. Besides isn't the fancy DE leather harness in the same ball-park $$$-wise as the Ozark CDE harness? Most the nice leather ones I've seen are over $1,000.

I'm not sure I agree that mini people don't spend much on their turnout. Not only can a Smart Cart and fancy CDE harness of several brands add up to about $4,000 but take a look at the breed ring!





Here's a Jerald Roadmaster with all the options I'd want:

Roadmaster Model AM 49 Inch Drop Heel Shafts

Walnut Stained Body + $ 150.00

Gold Ribbon with Black Edge Stripe

Painted Undercarriage

Velvet Flat Button Tufted Cushion + $ 75.00

Brass Shaft Tips + $ 12.50

Brass Polished Whip Socket + $ 8.00

Large Patent Dash with Fancy Top Brass Rail + $ 256.00

Natural Wood Basket with Patent Leather Boot

24 Inch Wooden Wheels with Painted Hub + $ 663.50

Complete Cart Covers with 24 Inch Wooden Wheel Quilted Pockets + $ 510.00

Forest Green Cart Cover Color

Brass Shaft Stops + $ 90.00

Painted Stirrups + $ 117.00

*Grand Total: $ 3727.00*...PLUS tax and shipping.

Lutke harness BASE PRICE: $900, plus plenty of options = $1,000+ easily.

*Total*? More than $5,000 for one mini to go around an arena for five minutes in a fine harness. Suddenly $3,000 or so for a CDE turnout seems not so bad to me!





Yes, big horse pleasure show vehicles and marathon four-wheelers cost an arm and a leg. But for a similar vehicle type to that which we're pricing here the cost isn't that much more.



RhineStone said:


> As far as the teardrop not being standard and causing the browband to be low, it is because I have it put through the small leather loop on the backside of the browband and behind the winker stays, which is where it is supposed to be. http://www.drivingessentials.com/pop%20up%..._gig_bridle.htm (I picked this photo b/c it was the easiest to see.)
> I suppose I could cop out and put the whole face drop under the winker stays, like Ozark does. *However, would rather have my browband a little low, than to have a judge think that I don't know where the face drop is supposed to go. I think that DE had decided that they would rather not put out a product that is incorrect for the sake of style.* It's probably not worth redesigning for the few that would like it and would pay the $. Again, there is only so much room. (Really, I wouldn't mind having a leather sewing machine and designing my own harness
> 
> 
> ...


And all of this is why I am just not meant for Pleasure Shows!!



I will fuss forever for my horse's comfort and overall appearance, but nitpicking to that level about minute style points is beyond me.



More power to you though!

By the way, the chain browband I have from the fancy Ozark CDE harness does have that little keeper behind the browband. I'm sure they could include that feature with the show bridle if you asked, or you could just substitute in your current browband. Be creative!

Leia


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 12, 2010)

And to my amusement I spent so long replying to the previous post I missed seeing Myrna's last one!



Seems like we were thinking along similar tracks. Glad you're de-stressing, friend!


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## RhineStone (Jan 12, 2010)

All better.



I like my DE harness so much, that I was a bit defensive about it. My harness cost about $1000 plus shipping, before the Freedom Collar. I haven't found anything else that I like better for the price. It is comparable in quality to Smucker's. When I point people that direction for a harness, a lot of them balk at the price. That is why I didn't even bother posting it on the other harness thread.

I can't give you a true cost for my Phaeton Cart turnout, because we built it ourselves. I know how much it cost us, but we had the labor costs. But if I were to sell it new, I would ask in the $5K range for the whole thing, including harness and accessories. (I got my pebbled string gloves at a silent auction for $4 last year, and my hats at a clearance sale at Macy's! Whoo Hoo! Now if I get those bridle ornaments, I am in!



)



hobbyhorse23 said:


> And all of this is why I am just not meant for Pleasure Shows!!
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Hey! That is how you win Turnout! It's in the details!






Ok, and the performance....





Myrna


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## Minimor (Jan 14, 2010)

> Some of that discussion goes back to a different thread, not quite related to this topic


Not sure if it's the same discussion you're referring to, but I know that one an earlier thread you did ask something about how many Mini owners will pay $4000 for a vehicle. I don't know of any who have, unless for a 4 wheeled one--because in terms of 2 wheel carts I don't know of any carriage makers that are building them (other than custom building one) in Mini size for that kind of price.
I’m not sure I would call Mini people cheap, as in being too cheap to pay $4000 (which I use as an example amount because that was the figure mention previously) for a vehicle. Many of them simply don’t have the money to pay that kind of money for a cart. I know there would be many more people driving Smart Carts (as one example) if they had extra money to spend on things like that, but even $2500 is a lot to spend on an extra cart when one has other interests and “life” to spend money on.

For myself, I simply see no need to pay out $4000 (for example) for a vehicle when a $2500 vehicle suits me perfectly well. Even if I had an excess of money…which I don’t!...I’m not sure that I would pay out an additional $1500 for something I don’t really need, or perhaps something that doesn’t even suit my purposes as well as a lower priced vehicle does. I have no interest at all in sticking my nose in the air & looking down it at others who don’t spend $5000 on their Mini turnout, nor do I care to have bragging rights because I did spend that much or more. Snobbery is never an endearing quality and I don’t think bragging rights are worth a whole lot of money.

Instead of crowing about how superior I am for having spent a huge pile of money on something, I’m more likely to crow about what a wonderful deal I got on something. Same thing with ponies. I know people who insist that you get what you pay for and a low priced pony simply can’t be good for anything. I have nothing against high priced ponies, but I'm thrilled if I can get a really good one for a low price. A $500 pony can be every bit as much fun as a $5000 pony, and if you’re competitive, it’s actually MORE fun to win with the $500 pony than it is the $5000 pony—just because it really annoys those people who are showing the $5000 ponies and/or those who insist that if you didn’t pay over $2000 for your pony then you just have junk and will never win anything.


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## MiLo Minis (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm with you all the way Holly! I may not own top of the line equipment but my horses have proven themselves to be VERY competitive with what I have to work with. That is not to say that I am "too cheap" to buy the more expensive equipment or that I wouldn't love to have that top of the line stuff but that I realize I have to work within a budget and find I can do what I want to do within that budget. I would feel really bad having to explain to Mickey that she can't do something she wants to do because mom spent twice as much as she needed to on something horsey for herself.


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## RhineStone (Jan 15, 2010)

I didn't mean to start a conversation on what people have spent on their turnouts (heck, I paid a quarter for my show horse, because the people that had him just wanted him to go to a home that would use him). My point was that items are priced based on what the market will bear. My husband is in Agri-Sales, and he knows that you can't price something too high, b/c people won't buy it. Then you are just stuck with that item.

We were discussing here why some options are not available on some harnesses, and I feel that it is because your average mini owner just isn't going to pay for it. The market is not there. I think that recreational drivers are more numerous than show drivers who might pay more. Therefore, harness makers are "marketing" to the group that is more numerous. You can upgrade your harness, but the "standard" off the rack harness just doesn't have all the bells and whistles. You have to "invent" or "piece together" that harness, as Leia and I have done.

I also feel that one reason lots of mini owners have minis is because they are cheaper to house, feed, haul, and tack. I know of ADS Open Horse drivers that have $20K+ stuck in their turnouts: horse, carriage, harness, accessories, etc. (We can't afford that, and we still compete in the Open Horse division very well.) That's not including the $50K+ into the truck and trailer. The mini drivers around here just don't have that stuck into their minis. Again, the market is not there. Yes, I know there are those out there with their 30 ft. Living Quarters trailer, custom laced with half a dozen mini stalls, but again, that is not the "typical" mini stuff consumer. My mini harnesses cost me $1000+, and I can't tell you how many people have scoffed that I paid that much for a harness. But I have one harness for my A horses, one for my B, one small pony-size, and one horse-size. I train and show in the same harness and it cleans up great. I don't have separate training harnesses. I don't intend in the near future to purchase any other harnesses. Oh, we have purchased parts here and there, but not full harnesses. Again, my point is that there is not much market for mini harnesses upwards of $1-2K+ (I know of ONE out there, but it is not mine), so why would the harness makers build those on a regular basis?

Myrna


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## Minxiesmom (Jan 15, 2010)

Hey Leia, Thanks for the heads up! I just ordered that bridle. My birthday is coming up and I deserve it and Max is paying for it to repay me for getting him a hot water heater! He is such a nice little guy, plus he gets a nice allowance.


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## MiniDashofBlue (Jan 16, 2010)

Thank you all for your replies. It has been very interesting to see your different views and comments. I called Ozark and they happened to have a bridle already made that has wider blinker stays. It should be here later next week. I will post a picture of it when it gets here. Thanks again!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 16, 2010)

Hehe, maybe now I've paid Lisa back for all the trouble I gave her getting the blinker stays and teardrop just the way I wanted them!




I've always told the people I buy from that I'm a pain in the @$$ perfectionist but make me happy and I will send you customers for the rest of my days!





Leia


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 16, 2010)

> M&D City RanchSMO She Daisy -- junior filly
> 
> SMO Etched in Red -- junior stallion
> 
> ...


DashofBlue- I never read your signature. You own Pyro!!!



Pyro came and lived with me most of his yearling year! How is the little redhead?? I loved seeing his photos on your website. Do you have any of him in harness yet?

Leia


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## MiniDashofBlue (Jan 17, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> > M&D City RanchSMO She Daisy -- junior filly
> >
> > SMO Etched in Red -- junior stallion
> >
> ...



Pyro is doing great! I got him from Liz in April and he has matured very nicely. We cant believe how nice he looks this year now that we have done a body clip. Here are a few pictures of him in the harness. He has only been in cart less than a dozen times and has taken to it very well. He had one slight tantrum the 2nd or 3rd time but has been great after that. We were just driving him today with another horse driving around him and he couldnt have cared less. Cant wait to see how his new bridle looks on him. We also have a video of him on youtube under his registered name or follow the link under NEWS on our website. I am also working on puting a bunch of pictures on a photobocket album that you can see here http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff230/d...NT%20--%20Pyro/ the ones of him driving clipped were taken today.


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