# Day off = driving training for youngsters



## Skylight_minis (Apr 18, 2011)

I'm soooo proud of Glory.... Last year i tried teaching her to drive she would go fine for just a moment and then flip out running and bucking. I was just leading her. She was fully tacked up though.

This time around i put her in between the shafts facing the cart and let her chase the cart then reversed and let the cart chase her around the yard. This is just in a halter and lead. She did great just walking calmly. THen i hitched her up with blinders and the whole bit and pulled the cart around with her between the shafts then I hitched her to the cart and led her around with the cart in tow.




We had to make HUGE circles she's not comfortable turning in it. Course i used the smaller lighter cart. so not as much room for her to manuver in it. I figure it was lighter for me to tug around and easier to handle leading and pulling at the same time lol. Next lesson I'll put her to the bigger cart. She has a lot more wiggle room in that one.

Now fixing to work with Grace. she's my 3 year old. she's a big girl so i have to use the bigger cart with her. chances are i wont actually hitch her to the cart but we'll see.... Wish me luck!


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## Skylight_minis (Apr 18, 2011)

YAY Grace did just as awesome!! I actually got behind the cart with Grace and did some ground driving around the yard. Way to go Girls! Now i'm thinking if i leave the carts out tomorrow i'll go out and try it again. If they are still doing awesome might actually get in.



Then i'll have to broaden our area and try it out in the pasture leading, then ground driving then hop in and go!



Is a great vacation so far.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Apr 19, 2011)

Congratulations! I'm glad you're having a good time with your horses and it was a good idea to let her chase the cart around to build confidence.







Skylight_minis said:


> This is just in a halter and lead. She did great just walking calmly. THen i hitched her up with blinders and the whole bit and pulled the cart around with her between the shafts then I hitched her to the cart and led her around with the cart in tow.
> 
> 
> 
> We had to make HUGE circles she's not comfortable turning in it.


If I may make one respectful comment though, I think one reason you haven't gotten a lot of replies is that people are concerned you're moving a little fast. To go from a horse who won't ground-drive or lead with the equipment on without bucking straight to hitching up in blinkers and pulling the cart is asking for trouble. She's most likely _accepting_ this without _understanding_ it. You need to go back and do a lot of steps in between, like getting her properly used to the equipment by itself, ground-driving in blinkers through obstacles, and having someone pull the cart along behind her while she's ground-driven in blinkers. Teach her to move into shafts using PVC poles. THEN you can think about hitching her! I know how exciting it is when they accept things but from what you've told us (and remember, we can only go by what you've told us!) you've skipped a lot of steps. I don't want you and your two fine girls to get hurt. Please take things a little slower so your horses really get what you're asking and can do a great job for you. Thanks!



I look forward to you sharing pictures from many years of safe driving.

Leia


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## hobbyhorse23 (Apr 19, 2011)

Sorry, forum errors led to a double-post.


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## RhineStone (Apr 19, 2011)

We take a few months from harness to hitch. We have had horses that are very easy, but they had a ton of groundwork. They were Showmanship Masters. Training for a big horse can be months and months but they are very safe in the end. IMO you can't train a driving horse in a week or weekend and expect them to be safe.

Myrna


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## Skylight_minis (Apr 19, 2011)

Forgive me from leaving out the boring details of their previous training experience. They do ground drive beautifully and they stop on voice command as well as with the reins. I've already done the ground work with them. I've already ground drivin them in the make shift shafts and all the scary stuff. This was just the first time that Grace was was introduced to the actual cart. Glory was introduced last year to the cart as a 3 yr old but she wasnt quite ready for it so we went back to the basics and tried again this year. So thats why i was really excited about Glory.

We just went around in the yard a couple of times and it was a good lesson. Next lesson will be in a small pasture we'll start the same way with just the halter and lead and the cart, then the harness and cart, then the actual hitchup and lead around if they seem comfortable if not we'll back up a step or two till they are comfortable if it takes a month before they are truely comfortable in different environments then it takes a month. I never put a time limit on training a horse. I always base everything on how the horse is responding. Every horse is different and yes you can go from cart introduction to them pulling people in a day.

In fact it is possible to go from first ground driving lesson to pulling a cart in a day. They would be green and just need the miles. I"ve trained several very nice driving horses that are fine with beginner drivers and have been enjoyed by their new owners for years now. NOT every horse can be trained that quickly. It all just depends on what the horse has been exposed to training wise. I've trained some in a day, some in 3 days, some in a week, some in 2 weeks. Some took a month or two and others took a year or longer. This just means green broke to cart. Every horse has to have some miles put on them before they are a "seasoned" driving horse.

I owned two minis when i was 17. The first was a stallion i trained him to drive myself having never even drivin a horse before. I did a lot of ground driving with him because i got the harness before the cart. When i finally did get the cart i hitched up and went. He was an awesome horse and we placed very well in obstacle driving. Of course he didnt do obstacles the first day that was something we built up to. My second miniature i tried ground driving but she played the spin around game so that didnt work out so well. I had ponied her off the cart with the first driving horse for months before i had decided to train her to pull. So one day i got frustrated with trying to get her to ground drive with out turning around so i hitched her up and away we went down the road that we always went down. Never had a wreck she never spooked she was one of the best driving horses i've ever had. She was perfect with beginners and everything.

Would i try that with every horse? absolutely not. I'm not quite as brave as i use to be. Now I think about the what ifs which never entered my mind when i was younger. I do take more time in the introduction. After they have been hitched to the cart i spend time just ground driving them while they pull the cart around so if i need to i can grab them. The first couple of times i back up a step or two for a refresher. Like i'll harness them then i'll put them between the shafts of the cart but i'm doing all the pulling and we'll go a round thru turns and such if they are comfortable then i'll hitch them to it and go on with ground driving. A drag would probably be better but i dont have a drag. So i have to go from the poles to the cart. So far it has worked just fine. When i feel like they are ready for weight i'll lean on the cart to add some resistance if they are fine with that then i move on to getting in but only if they are going steady and relaxed and are responding with a light rein to the commands. I never put my horses in a situtation that they arent ready for.

Just recently i had a gelding that had grew up with kids and he was really laid back. did a lesson on ground driving he did fine he didnt care about any sudden noises and was responding to the rein cues. It only took about 30 mins for him to learn what all the cues were. I drug a tire around behind us while he had the poles on he didnt care. He drug the tire around as well he didnt care. On the next lesson we put him between the shafts of the cart and pulled it around he didnt care so he got hitched to the cart i ground drove behind him he did fine. Got in did some refining on his manuvering the cart he did fine then his owner got in and he drives just fine. He didnt have any prior driving experience. He gets better everytime he goes out which theres always some improvement that can be made with any horse your working with. I think with more work he'd excell in the obstacle class.

Its all about listening to your horse they will tell you when they are ready. Look at all those clinics where trainers take wild mustangs and within 3 days they have them halter broke and are riding them around. With out the horse ever getting upset or bucking. They are listening to their horses and they know when their horse is ready to move to the next step. Are they seasoned mounts at that point ready for a competition?? No they are green but are ready for the miles and ready for the experiences that your average riding horse experiences. If you have a solid foundation of trust then you can use that to build upon and your horse will be more likely to listen to you in a scary situation. Anyways thats my soap box and my experience with whether a driving horse can be successfully and safely pulling a cart in less than 6 months.


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## Make A Wish Miniatures (Apr 20, 2011)

Wow!! You are a lot braver than I am. I spend a long time ground driving before I even think about hooking to the cart.


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## RhineStone (Apr 20, 2011)

Skylight_minis said:


> Look at all those clinics where trainers take wild mustangs and within 3 days they have them halter broke and are riding them around. With out the horse ever getting upset or bucking. Anyways thats my soap box and my experience with whether a driving horse can be successfully and safely pulling a cart in less than 6 months.


A driving horse is a whole different ball game. You have attached a "weapon" to them that can hurt them. I have know plenty of horses who have had wrecks with vehicles and now will never drive. I can't say the same thing about riding horses.

I would say that your techniques are quite different than the professional expert driving trainers that I know (local, national, and international). If it works for you, fine. I have made the mistake of confusing "acceptance" with "readiness" and had disasterous results. Yes, I have had horses that went from harness to hitch in six easy lessons, but those were the rare exceptions. When I am training, I will take the time to actually "push" my horses a little so that I know what their "breaking point" is. I want to know what is going to make them "freak" or spook before I even put to and help them understand how to work through it safely (John Lyons calls it "spook in place"). It's not a matter of "if" but "when" they spook, even with our absolutely quiet horses. Those are the ones that I am MOST leary of because when they blow, they blow fast and hard.

Just this weekend we were at a Horse Fair and a kids driving group was on their way into the arena. One of the minis blew up and reared (with a header) and fell over backwards. My husband and I happened to be standing right there, so in true carriage driver fashion we jumped right in to help. We told the adults to get the mini's head down, but unfortunately his head was on top of the shaft facing the cart, so an adult held the horse's head. This didn't really keep it from thrashing as we were trying to get it out of the tangled mess. I told them to release the backstrap as that would drop the whole back assembly of the harness (my hands were full of stuff for the next group waiting to go in the arena). The crupper had slipped off the tail and the breeching was under the horse, so we had to go after other buckles. My husband started undoing the saddle and found that the harness didn't have open tugs, but those modified wrap tugs, so even releasing the backstrap wouldn't have worked as the horse was "wedged" in the cart. They managed to get the harness off the horse without cutting something, but my husband was ready to get his jackknife out.

After that, the other horses started fussing and the kids kept jumping out of their carts, so I was running around telling them that they needed to be in the cart if their horse was put to. Each one had a header who was holding the rein instead of the caveson. If the first one had the caveson, they might have been able to pull the mini out of the air or keep it down in the first place. When I head, I have two fingers in the caveson and my thumb around the rein. That way, I am not mixing the signals either from what the driver is telling the horse. I also looked at their other harnesses, and instead of a buckle on the backstrap, there was a Conway buckle. Even if we were able to get to that downed horse's backstrap, we wouldn't have been able to get it off easily. These horses are supposedly so trained, that they are part of a kids performance group. It can happen at any time.

IMO (and a lot of other people) driving is THE most dangerous thing you can do with a horse (even with a mini) besides maybe bronc riding or steer wrestling. That is why drivers are extremely concerned about safety and accepted driving practices. I don't know of a equine sport that is_ more_ about safety than driving. I have a friend who was giving a clinic to a 4-H group and going over the proper methods of handling a driving horse. The 4-H leader told him that they weren't concerned about safety, they just wanted to have fun.



Needless to say, he didn't put in a lot of time there anymore if even the leadership for the group wasn't going to listen. You can't have fun if you are not safe.

You can't teach a kid what numbers are and have them dividing them in the same day. I write this so that anyone reading understands that this is the exception rather than the rule with driving horses.

Myrna


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## studiowvw (Apr 21, 2011)

Skylight_minis said:


> Forgive me from leaving out the boring details of their previous training experience.


 

It's important to put in all that "boring" stuff (and I for one don't find it boring!) for this reason:

 

- lots of beginners and people with not much driving experience reading these posts 

- who then may think it is no big deal to hitch up a horse and start driving

- which is unfair to the horses, who deserve a proper foundation

- and can be dangerous

Thanks to the dedicated people who always keep those details coming!

Glad to hear you had good success with your horses, and that you have put some time and experience into your training program.

Thanks for including some of the details.


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## jegray21 (Apr 26, 2011)

RhineStone said:


> We take a few months from harness to hitch. We have had horses that are very easy, but they had a ton of groundwork. They were Showmanship Masters. Training for a big horse can be months and months but they are very safe in the end. IMO you can't train a driving horse in a week or weekend and expect them to be safe.
> 
> Myrna


I would like add that they can not build the strength over night either. The cowboys that "break" the horse in three days have to go back and fill in the gaps that they did not have time to teach the horse in three days. Just because you can sit on the horse does not mean it is safe to ride. The clinics don't explain that the horse is allowing it because he is unbalance and not strong enough to argue about it. It takes several days for the horse to have the confidence in the situation to react to it.

Sometimes I think the minis have such an unfair advantage. The big horses are physically intimidating so people seem to care more about safety due to the size. Poor minis can be put in situations that are unfair, just because they are little and not as intimating.But as Myrna explained the results can still be dangerous and harmful to the .





I am not trying to offend anyone. Just want people to safe! I was over confident when I first started with the minis and it was people on this forum sharing their experiences and the risks that got me to slow down. Ok I am done preaching...


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## RhineStone (Apr 26, 2011)

jegray21 said:


> Sometimes I think the minis have such an unfair advantage. The big horses are physically intimidating so people seem to care more about safety due to the size.






If you wouldn't do it with a 15 hand Morgan or a 16 hand Warmblood, don't do it with a mini. They're still horses.


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## susanne (Apr 26, 2011)

Those who assume a mini can be "manhandled" into obedience forget that once they get into the cart and their feet leave the ground, they lose whatever physical advantage they once had.

A mini may be considerably safer to handle from the ground than a big horse, but...

Once one is in the cart, a mini can run away, dash into traffic, go over an embankment, plunge into a pond, and kill you (or your kids) just as easily as a big horse.

Fortunately, minis tend to pack a lot of common sense into those little bodies, so we rarely hear of such things, but unfortunately, too many take this too much for granted.

I grew up climbing huge fir trees to the top and riding my bike over wild jumps, so I'm not the fearful sort, but I much prefer to take my time with training and give my driving horse every advantage.


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## RhineStone (Apr 27, 2011)

susanne said:


> Fortunately, minis tend to pack a lot of common sense into those little bodies, *so we rarely hear of such things*, but unfortunately, too many take this too much for granted.


I have some "educational moments" on my website that I have collected over the years, including situations with minis...yup, it does happen even with minis.


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