# Worm those babies!



## Sandee (Feb 14, 2006)

Sorry, in advance, for the long post. This is not to villify my vet but to inform others.
I posted a month or so back about my filly (then 7 mo) having a bad reaction to bute. Well, hindsite is wonderful! I have had horses over the years and never had big problems but I'm new at minis especially babies. I do all my own barn work and pay very close attention to the horses as far as input, output, attitude, etc. or I would have missed some of the signs and been too late. All that said, I still messed up big time and am hoping by posting that other newbies (not derogatory) will benefit.
I purchased this little girl at 4 1/2 mo. in the fall. The breeders are reliable people and always helpful. They said they had her on daily wormer. I figured ok so it's just a month until my "regular" worming. I'll get her then. I was waiting for that "first freeze"! With the holiday rush, worming slipped by and I am forgetful too. She had a little cough for a few days but that cleared up.
At Christmas, a vet was called to treat her for an eye problem. Vet noticed she was grinding her teeth so gave her .5 mg bute and said give it once a day (I heard 2x a day). She got that dose for 3 days and the vet was called again as she stopped eating and drinking (colic right? -hmmm). By the time the vet saw her and tubed her she hadn't eaten for 9 hours. Besides tubing and a pain shot, the vet guessed at ulcers and started Gastroguard. We were told to walk her and "not feed" until she passed something. We "older" and this was a 7 mo. old filly; after 5 hours we gave up. We were almost dragging her around at this point. She wanted water and food so we gave her a little and prayed for the best. She passed manure overnight.
A few days later she was eating grain but now no hay. Called vet again. Her temperature was 105 and her nose was starting to snot. We were scheduled to leave on a "no refund" vacation so the vet took her to her place. She said in the next few days that her nose and inside and outside of her mouth ulcered . She lost 10 pounds. They had her on antibiotics and an I V. When we returned she was only on the Gastroguard and appeared better. The vet was concerned about her blood protein being low and was giving her (?colustrum) substitue. Never did a fecal count.
A week or two later. It was the "normal" time to worm again and I consulted the vet who said to wait until the Gastroguard was done. I used Safeguard and got a pile of really big round worms !
Right after that her spirits picked up. She eats better but has a lot of weight loss to recover. I didn't know that foals should be wormed more often!!
Now look at the underlined phrases in this message. They are all signs of worms. I have since learned coughing, rolling and colic, snotty nose, blood protein low, even mouth sores are signs of worm infestation.
There are a lot of good posts on this forum about worms. Just do a search. I could have easily lost this little girl if she hadn't already been at the vets.
After all this I have one question. Taking into account that she had a lot of worms the vet asked me to worm in a month with ivermectin. Does anyone have an opinion - Is this the best / safe approach? I would have thought maybe 5 day fenbendazole.


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## rabbitsfizz (Feb 14, 2006)

The Fenbendazole five day will get any nasty big roundworms that are left, and it will get encysted small strongyles (redworms) BUT it will not get Bots and it will not get migrating strongyles or ascarids.

I would suggest that you talk this over with your Vet. What I would do is this:-

Fenbendazole 5 day.

Wait ten days (life cycle of most worms)

Worm with Ivermectin

Wait ten days

Worm with Praziquantel (Tapeworms)

This should clear any extra worms that have been hanging on!!




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## HGFarm (Feb 14, 2006)

We were given a 6 month old QH colt one time who was a very quiet little guy and small, but he looked a bit rough. We wormed him. That poor boy passed HUGE piles of EVERY KIND of worm you could IMAGINE!! Some were STILL MOVING!!! When I mentioned this to the folks we got him from, they seemed unconcerned. (Why would you need to worm a foal?)

I have always wormed our foals, and they get it more often than the adults as they are worse than toddlers in regards to rooting around in stuff and putting everything in their mouth. I think too, just being young, they are more susceptable.

ANY new horse I have ever purchased, regardless of what type of home it comes from, I have wormed IMMEDIATELY, as many I have gotten has had pinworms or something.....

Rabbits has a great schedule there for worming...

You will need to follow up with this little gal, poor thing, and keep her wormed until she is past this mess. I hope she does not have serious internal damage from the worms. Thank heavens you caught this in time and thank heavens she did not die from the infestation!!!! :new_shocked:


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## MagicTheMini (Feb 14, 2006)

I never knew that babies were greatly affected by worms. I have had two of my horses since they were babies and I doubt they were wormed well as babies. All three of my horses look and act really healthy, but I was looking into the pancur double dose thing just incase. I have had all of my horses for atleast four years and have never done it (I do worm on a regular basis with Ivermectrin). Rabbit proposed a good schedule, but I have a few questions about it. For the fenbendazole, is it the double dose for five days or just a single dose? Is it ok for horses that potentially have a lot of worms? I don't want my boys to colic, none of them ever have. and Is it ok for big horses? I don't see why it wouldn't be, but I only have one mini and two bigs.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but it seemed like a good learning time. Thanks! L


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## Buckskin gal (Feb 14, 2006)

Sandee, your article does a great service to many horse owners in letting them know those babies need to be dewormed.



With all the safe dewormers now available there just isn't any legitimate reason for them not to be getting regular dewormings.....and I totally agree that Jane's schedule for dewroming is the best! So glad to hear you saved your little gal from more suffering and you should see a trmendous difference in her health whe she is free of those nasty worms. Mary


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## slaneyrose (Feb 14, 2006)

Rabbits worm regime sounded very thorough...Rabbit what would you recommend for foals....ie: what age to start?..and do you use just one at first or a combination for the young babies??


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## Minimor (Feb 14, 2006)

I'd suggest you should have also underlined the "grinding her teeth" in the early part of your post, as I also consider that a symptom of a serious worm infestation.

Glad to hear you're now on top of this, & your little girl is doing better!


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## SkipsMom (Feb 14, 2006)

On the day the mare foals, deworm her. This was she will not pass parasites through her milk to the foal. Continue her regular deworming schedule from there. Hit the foals individually as early as 3 months.

The cheapist insurance we have against colic, most of which is caused by parastie overload, is regular dewormings with a correct rotation.

Thanks for sharing your story. There's always something to learn.


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## slaneyrose (Feb 14, 2006)

so is it ivermectin you use on the day the foal is born for them mum...and then again when they are 3mths??? its so confusing....you read so many different things in books etc...I would like to have a plan that works and stick to it.


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## Ashley (Feb 14, 2006)

My foals get dewormed every 4-6 weeks, normal for me being 4. My adults get dewormed every 2 months.


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## heartofwisdom (Feb 14, 2006)

I wanted to thank you for posting. Someone here that lost a horse to worms (that wormed regulary) opened my eyes quickly. I've been worried since and didn't realise there were warning signs to watch for.

Thank you.


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## schutzandwhinnies (Feb 14, 2006)

Ok so worm momma right after the foal is born, but then the foal will be drinking the milk. Will the wormming meds be in the milk? Is it ok to let the foal have it that soon? If the foal is nursing and you worm momma and then worm the foal at 3 months does that mean the foal will get more meds than it needs or maybe 2 different kinds???? I haven't gotton the handout from our vet yet as it is not time. I am sure he will cover all of this, but I was curious now



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## rabbitsfizz (Feb 15, 2006)

I have never wormed the mare straight after foaling- I have always felt that, what with everything else going on (



: ) it really was a bit of an imposition on her system. I would welcome input as to why, if the mare is routinely wormed and there is no reason to suspect a worm burden, worming after foaling is necessary???



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## Robin1 (Feb 15, 2006)

Rabbit, I have never wormed after foaling either. Last year when this topic came up I asked my vet about it. She said as long as the mare is on a regular worming schedule it was just a waste of wormer. Like you, I don't see the good in adding anything extra during that stressful time.

Robin


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## SkipsMom (Feb 15, 2006)

If your current deworming program is working for you and you have never experienced a intestinal parasite problem with your herd, then don't deworm a mare on the day she foals.  If you want to be certain that your valuable mare and foal have protection against internal parasites then deworm on the day she foals with a correctly dosed ivermectin product. My veterianarian absolutley advises "foaling day deworming" regardless of the last time the mare was dewormed. The foal may nurse from the mare with no ill effects and then be dewormed with his/hers pasture mates w/ a product which is approved for use in foals.

There are many methods of horse keeping discussed and "foaling day deworming" is one of those. Ask 3 veterinarians what they think about it and you'll get 5 different answers. Not unlike us owners- ask 3 of us the best feeding program and you'll get 5 answers. 

You've spent X months planning the breeding, 11 months waiting for the foal- factor in the money involved to get that foal here and then imagine a creepy little parasite imbedded in your mares intestinal tract that with the longer spring days realizes "hey, it's time to shed out of this place" (look up the life cycle of the different worms) and it finds it's way into the immature intestinal tract of your 6 week old foal to begin it's damage.

Just an opinion on one way to protect the mom's and babies.


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## Becky (Feb 15, 2006)

Lots of good information here!

I don't generally deworm my mares during the last 2 months of pregnancy, so deworming after foaling is imperative! I do wait until my mares pass their first manure after foaling before I worm. It is a fact that some worm larvae can pass through the mares' milk directly to the foal. It is also thought that migrating worms are sometimes the cause of foal scours.

I also deworm my foals starting at one month of age and continue monthly until they are 12 months old then go to every other month as I do with my adult horses.

Since my horses are mostly dry lotted and live together in groups, it's critical here to deworm frequently on a small acreage. If your horses are living in large, lush pastures, then frequency of deworming is probably decreased. As some mentioned, a fecal would be a good idea.


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## zacharyfarms (Feb 15, 2006)

Actually very cheap insurance...



:

*Regarding Ivermectin use within 12 hours of foaling: *

Studies indicated that oral ivermectin administered to the mare within 12 hours of birth could prevent the development of certain intestinal parasites in their foals. *Further studies have shown that the ivermectin treatment could essentially provide the **foals an **opportunity for begininng life free of infestation by the parasite Strongyloides westeri and less colics associated with this type parasite[/b**]. The timing is crucial within 12 hours after birth and the use of ivermectin..No other product provides the same results.**Strongyloides westeri (Threadworms) **-Location: small intestine of the horse, donkey, and pig**-**Lifecycle: *

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Ingestion of larvae or penetration through the skin*

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Larvae that enter through the skin migrate to the lungs and into trachea*

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Coughed up and swallowed*

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Larvae mature into adults in the small intestine*

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Adults females lay eggs that are passed in the feces *

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-Only females worms are parasitic*

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-PPP= 6-10 days*

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-Pathogenesis *

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Invasion: Pyogenic streptococci may be associated with skin penetration*

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Migration: Usually causes food problems*

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Intestinal: Adults are embedded in mucosa and lamina propria and cause villous atrophy*

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Enteritis and diarrhea are common in heavily infected foals*

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-Diagnosis: small embryonated eggs in feces*

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**-Immunity: Older animals are immune but are carriers. Mares are a reservoir; larvae in paramammary tissue-**Control: Routine worming program**Ivermectin treatment of mares within 12 hours postpartum significantly reduces transmission to foals*


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## Jean_B (Feb 15, 2006)

Another reason it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to worm the mare with Ivermectin within a few hours after foaling...that newborn is going to eat momma's manure. For you newbies - this seems gross and disgusting. But it is *essential* for the foal to get active bacteria cultures working in baby's gutt in order to digest milk/food properly. And if that mare hasn't been wormed - baby will get a whopping case of worms really fast.


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## Buckskin gal (Feb 15, 2006)

We always administer Ivermectin within 12 hours of the mare foaling because we too do not want that baby ingesting worms from moms poo! It doesn't seem to stress the mare at all and we never have colicy babies. Just a good bit of insurance for both mom and babe! Mary


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## wantminimore (Apr 29, 2006)

So Ivercare (Ivermectin) is safe to give to foals? The box says that foals should be treated initially at 6 to 8 weeks. I just wanted to check here just in case.


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## rabbitsfizz (Apr 30, 2006)

Ivermectin is not safe (or at least not recommended) for foals under 12 weeks.

Fenbendazole (Panacur/ Safeguard) is safe for foals .

The poo the foal eats may still contain Ivermectin residue when the (very young) foals eat Mamas poo.

This thread is interesting but has not given me any overwhelming desire to worm my mares with Ivermectin on the day that they foal!!!!

It is definitely _not_ a "necessity" providing the mare is on a good, sensible worming programme- I do wish people would not "scare monger" in cases like this.

It is just possible that some of these cases of foal colic and ulcers in very young foals- that I do not get, incidentally- could be the result of the foals being exposed to Ivermectin far too young.

The foals newborn digestive system is a very delicate thing indeed- we are warned about Bute in the mares milk, antibiotics in the mares milk, etc, etc.

We really do need to think hard about what we put into the mares system at this difficult time.


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## ruffian (Jun 6, 2007)

A friend of mine just lost his month old filly. 1st vet said tapeworm, second said obstruction in the intestine. Either way, he lost a beautiful little girl. He's heartsick.


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