# Advise about a Welsh



## schutzandwhinnies (Sep 19, 2006)

We have a 8 yr old Welsh mare that is just the most wonderful girl. She does all the good stuff and is very sweet with my daughters 14 and 4. We love her so much. The plan was for my 14 yr old to keep her "to parr" in her manners, ground work, neck reining and leg ques etc...until my 4 yr old could take over. Now when we got her she was toting around an 11 yr old and was just fine. When my daughter rides her in the roundpen she is fine, however when we get her out in the open she tries to bolt and when you pull the rein back she starts crowhopping. You turn the rein to one side and she gets even fiestier. I have talked to one person that has suggested we find another one as we are not experienced enough to get her thru this and the more she does it the more she will think she can (habbit). They also said that if we send her away for training that we are still the ones that can't handle the issue and she will come home and take advantage again. They are saying "well that is just pony behavior and you have to be the boss"

We just love her and she has been thru so much already (someone) starved her. I would like to think that even though we are new in the saddle, we are certainly not new with horses. We have 2 mini's. What are some opinions and suggestions? Thanks for any info you may have. Constructive critisizm is also appreciated.




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## runamuk (Sep 19, 2006)

It sounds to me like she kinda has your number. If she hasn't been being ridden regularly as in weekly or more often she may have decided she doesn't want any part of this nonsense. Welsh are smart as whip. If you could put the time into her to work through this issue she should be fine.....the problem is the kids often aren't prepared to deal with the behavior and then cause it to become a habit when they realize they can get away with it.

To me I think you are dealing with a bit spoilt of a pony who is growing accustomed to getting her way if you aren't up to tackling her do you know a trainer or have an experienced friend who could get her back in shape? Maybe contact local 4h and see if they have a more advanced member who could help out or a local riding club might have someone who could help get a few miles back under her belt.

I personally would not give up on her as almost any pony or horse will do this when they haven't been worked in a while......once they get back into the routine the great horse/pony shines through again.


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## alphahorses (Sep 20, 2006)

schutzandwhinnies said:


> They also said that if we send her away for training that we are still the ones that can't handle the issue and she will come home and take advantage again. They are saying "well that is just pony behavior and you have to be the boss"


They're right about this - that's why it's important that you find someone to train BOTH the pony and your daughter ....



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When I was 8 my father bought me my first show pony - a "push button" black mare... w/in a short time she was pushing MY buttons!! :new_shocked: LOL Could hardly blame the pony for this. My first 4H leader was a big help in teaching me to get control of her again.



schutzandwhinnies said:


> They are saying "well that is just pony behavior and you have to be the boss"


In a way it IS "pony behavior". I've worked with many many breeds of horses, and my ponies are definitely more intelligent than most of the horses I've worked with. It's only natural for them to use that intelligence - and sometimes they use it to get their own way! Training is the key. A well trained pony can be very very loyal. Let us know how it turns out!


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## schutzandwhinnies (Sep 20, 2006)

Thanks for the info and advise guys :bgrin I think considering everything else is in place with this mare, that she should respond good to training. I'll put some training into her with Maddy and see how they do. If the trainer thinks that Maddy can keep her tuned up then we will put the time and money into her. She is really sweet when she wants to be



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When we started to do work in the round pen with her she became very keen on the lunge whip, so who ever had her before must have been pretty harsh with it. If Maddy raises it just a bit she takes off in a canter for 4 or 5 laps before she settles from it. So we don't have to even make the snap sound with it, just raising it in the air makes her goooooooooooo! I have found that if I have it in my hand when I take her hay out to her, she gives me plenty of room just holding it. I am not sure if she is afraid of it because she was beaten or if she just has an honest respect for it from her days before she came to us. I sure wish I knew her history. We have been trying to rub her with it so she sees that it is an extension of us in kindness as well, but she won't let us get near her with it to show her that it is not a thing to fear.



: This communication thing is so hard to do without messing up the message. Lot's of work to do yet



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Keep you posted and thanks :saludando:


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## runamuk (Sep 21, 2006)

schutzandwhinnies said:


> Thanks for the info and advise guys :bgrin I think considering everything else is in place with this mare, that she should respond good to training. I'll put some training into her with Maddy and see how they do. If the trainer thinks that Maddy can keep her tuned up then we will put the time and money into her. She is really sweet when she wants to be
> 
> 
> 
> ...


actually she may never have been beaten with the whip.....................several trainers I worked with would cue with the whip for speed changes and raising it meant canter



: pointing at the shoulder meant reverse, and so on....the whip was never cracked or used as anything other than a pointer...........dropping the whip usually meant whoa session over...just thought I'd share as it could be the case with her.

So any pics of this pony?


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## schutzandwhinnies (Sep 21, 2006)

Here is a link to her story and the progress that she has made. Now that you mention it about the training whip, I think you are right. Today in the roundpen with my daughter she met up with her every time she said whoa to stop her and put the whip down. She comes all the way up to her in the middle very relaxed and slow, like oh finally :bgrin Here's the link:

http://schwung.proboards67.com/index.cgi?b...39943662&page=1

Make sure to look to pages 3 and 4 as they have more recent pictures of her in the roundpen.

She looks even better now as we have been working her and her topline is filling in nicely. I'll have to get some pics of her tomorrow if it doesn't rain and I'll post them so you can see how pretty she is.


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## runamuk (Sep 21, 2006)

schutzandwhinnies said:


> Here is a link to her story and the progress that she has made. Now that you mention it about the training whip, I think you are right. Today in the roundpen with my daughter she met up with her every time she said whoa to stop her and put the whip down. She comes all the way up to her in the middle very relaxed and slow, like oh finally :bgrin Here's the link:
> 
> http://schwung.proboards67.com/index.cgi?b...39943662&page=1
> 
> ...


well thats nifty she was rescued from the town I just moved too................she looks cute and I would love to see updated pics.........................hang in there rescues are challenging but so worth it


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 22, 2006)

This "pony behaviour" thing is another American specific thing.

Over here we are knee deep in real, quality ponies and I used to buy, train and sell them for a living.

I have never heard the term and I have never had a pony act any way except like any other horse.

Now- all BREEDS are different, of course, and some breeds have specific traits.

To me, your girl does not look or act Welsh.

She looks Shetland (American) bred.

My Welsh were all brains and honesty.

Once they had been properly trained, that was it.

There may have been a tiny bit of taking advantage but it was usually in the order of not being caught- they could be devils for that, but again, once they had been straightened out they tended to stay straight.

I have had hundreds of Welsh and they were all, with only the normal percentage of differences, honest, intelligent and loyal, a child's best friend.

My partners daughters first "off lead" riding pony was a Sec B Welsh show pony, fully registered an 11.2 hh.

We could come out of the ring and turn her loose and she would be off around the trailers as safe as houses- she did lead rein to National level and then on into First Ridden on a pony that she rode out at home as easy as you like.

Wish I could send you one!!!


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## Lewella (Sep 24, 2006)

Rabbit, that's inappropriate. Pony behaviour is pony behaviour the world over - they are simply more intelligent than your average big horse. Intelligence leads to testing limits and that is all this pony is doing. It has nothing to do with what side of the pond she was raised on.

It's also inappropriate to imply that American Shetlands are not gentle, responsive, loyal ponies. You really need to withhold this type of judgement when you have no experience with American Shetlands.

This forum is a place for all pony breeds and flaming any breed from any part of the world is not acceptable.


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## rabbitsfizz (Sep 26, 2006)

Lewella I am sorry- I was not in any way shape or form flaming any breed nor suggesting anything that you implied.

I have reread the post and I do not understand your problem with it- I really do not.

My intention was to be helpful, not destructive.

For the record I think American Shetlands are amazing and have said so on many, many occasions.

If I were still doing lead rein I would buy one in an instant and it would wow the socks off the pony world here.

It has alwasy been American that have denigrated the Shetland temperament, I have NEVER done so and have not done so in this post, either.

All I said was the pony did not look Welsh, she looked like a Shetland cross- how is that denigrating Shetlands??

Sorry, I do not get it.


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## Sheryl (Sep 27, 2006)

You mention you are new to riding, but have had minis. Well, I have had riding horses, and it is somewhat common for them the "get someone's number" especially new riders. I don't think this is unique to Shetlands. My opinion is that Shetlands (and other small ponies) are often poorly trained because they are so small.... I say that based on my experience with Shetlands as a kid. My dad collected 'em so I have ridden at least 1/2 dozen of them. We actually learned to ride on a very gentle, older but HUGE 16 H mare... before graduating to the more spirited and less trained ponies.

In general, it is very helpful to learn to ride on a well trained horse with fewer issues. Since you already have this one the solution is to get lessons for both daughter and pony. This could be difficult to solve though because it may take your daughter a bit of time to learn how to control this pony. I am not sure what I would do in your situation - if that pony bolts or bucks her off, she may not find riding to be fun anymore since she doesn't have alot of experience already.

The barn I used to board at had a beautiful young QH mare owned by a teen girl. This was not her first horse, but she really wasn't ready to train up a green young horse. Anyway, I saw with my own eyes a calm, but green 2 year old turn into a very unruly 3 year old just because of her young riders inexperience. The barn owners teenage daughter could ride this filly and keep the nonsense under control but her owner could not. This problem is not unique to ponies.


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## Sheryl (Sep 27, 2006)

Jane and Lewella - When I first read the post it struck me as kind of derogatory too. When I went back and read it later, I had a totally different interpetation and "got it". I agree that often people assume that Shetlands (or maybe all poinies?) are going to be naughty and that idea may be unique to America. Similiarly, I have known lots of people are "anti-mare" which doesn't fit in with my experiences, but certainly is an ingrained belief too. Jane, my apologies for taking offense when I first read your post too.

Sheryl


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## schutzandwhinnies (Sep 28, 2006)

I agree with the lesson idea. We have listed her up for adoption again thru a rescue group I keep up with. They have some very good applications in for her already. We are only adopting her out to a family that will continue her training and keep her current on her skills so she stays marketable. There were a few folks that wanted her for a pasture pet as she is perfect in every other way except the crow hopping thing. But I don't think that would be a good career move for her. I want her to stay in the loop with her skills.

I know very little about exactly what breed she is. Everyone has said she is welsh until I posted on here, so maybe she is a cross. Most of the folks that have seen her so far are horse people and not really into ponies, so you guys may be right. The vet even asked me what she was. Aren't all ponies from the Shetland breed? Or is that just mini's? I am still learning about all the different breeds. There is so many different theories and opinions.



: It's hard to get it straight. I just know I like all of them :bgrin My daughter is having so much fun with her mini and the foal she had in May. She starts 4H this October and will be using her mini's.



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## Jetiki (Oct 17, 2006)

Does the bit fit her or does her mouth hurt? Has she had her teeth looked at recently???

Karen


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