# Unknown dates: please help!! (Pics attached)



## Stevieandtracie (Apr 26, 2015)

Hi there,

We purchased 'Star' a couple of month ago. Previous owner said she thought she may have been bred but had a negative test in July. We noticed some changes about 3 weeks ago. According to the previous owner she thought she conceived May 18th which would put her at 343 days. Does this seem accurate when looking at the pics? Thank you VERY much!


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## Magic Marker Minis (Apr 26, 2015)

Get a broadside picture and a picture from directly behind her at her level. Helps us determine where the baby is sitting. From her bag she looks close. Nipples just need to point down. Depending on if she has had a foal before, she could how many days you said and that much progress. I've had two maiden mares go to 355 and 350 days before. Diane from Castle Rock has had a mare that foaled many times at 365 days.


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## Stevieandtracie (Apr 26, 2015)

Thank you VERY much!! I was told she foaled about 3 years ago. Here are a couple more pics of her rear and broad view

I appreciate the help!

Tracie


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## Magic Marker Minis (Apr 26, 2015)

The picture from behind is a little off but I can't see the foal sticking out on both sides. That's what you call slab-sided, meaning the foal is lining up to be delivered. Doesn't mean she will foal tonight. The side view needs to be more broad side, so can see where the baby is laying from the underside of her belly. If its v'd, that is another sign that foaling is close. Can you get any fluid from her bag? If not, that's okay. If the fluid is a off white color and sticky, do not leave her unattended. Foaling is close. I would definitely keep a very close eye on her. I don't think you have long to wait. Other, more experienced Miniature breeders will answer sometime today. Diane from Castle Rock is one of the best. She should be checking in this afternoon/evening. Safe foaling.


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## lkblazin (Apr 26, 2015)

Very cute mare. Welcome to the forum!!! Diane as already stated can give you bundles of information


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 26, 2015)

Welcome to the forum





What a lovely mare you have. I also agree that she is moving closer. how is her tail resistance ? Is she able to clamp down easily or are you able to move it freely? She certainly looks to be relaxing regarding her croup muscles.

Did you notice her bagging up ect when you noticed the changes starting to happen ?

Everyone is really nice here and happy to answer ANY questions , even if you think your question may be silly , ask away everyones willing to help as much as they can to help you get this little foal safely on the ground.

Glad you have joined us and welcome again


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## Stevieandtracie (Apr 26, 2015)

Thank you! Actually...today I lifted her tail for a pic and it lifted freely--different than any other time. I have attached a pic that shows her udder development from when I first noticed it.

I am a labor and delivery nurse so this is all very exciting to me!! I have delivered plenty of babies but NEVER a foal. Hopefully, all goes well for her. I have already learned so much from this group!!

So...foal within a couple days??!!


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 26, 2015)

Not sure if there will be an arrival in the next couple of days, BUT I will say I don't think you have very long to wait. Her udder looks to have gone down in the bottom two pictures from the 22nd -26th . but that really means nothing



Some days it will seem a lot fuller than others and then just when you thought "hey we are getting somewhere" , down it goes.................... Only she will know when the time is right. Watch for changes in behaviour and also inside her Vulva, some mares but not all will change colour within the inside from a pale pink to a much darker red colour. By her tail head relaxing Id say she is progressing perfectly.


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## paintponylvr (Apr 26, 2015)

Looking good - this one is exciting, too!

Who is the sire of your foal - do you know?


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##  (Apr 26, 2015)

Pretty girl!! Try to get us a couple of pictures as described above: 1 standing/squatting behind her looking forward so we can see how baby is laying in there....right down at her level. The second squatting down at her level and a full side shot. This will let us see how baby is lining up in there.

She is certainly progressing from what I can see in the pictures. What are you feeding her? I think she could use some mare/foal feed to help fill out those hips and keep her in good condition while she's nurses this little one. The extra protein and calories will help strengthen baby and momma for the hard work ahead. I'd also add some type of alfalfa to her diet -- hay or pellets or cubes. This extra boost of protein helps baby build some strong bones and muscles, and is an excellent tummy soother too.

Can't wait to see some more pictures. She's a pretty girl, and she's progressing nicely. A few more pictures, and I should be able to tell you more.


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## Stevieandtracie (Apr 26, 2015)

It is very exciting!! We bought both mom and dad. Meet Simba or (Fabio) as I like to call him?.

He is a gorgeous and he knows it!! I just love him. He has the best personality!! Previous owners daughter did many shows with him....he has several blue ribbons in the barn. My daughters are just 4 & 6 but I would love to get him back in the ring or atleast to fairs


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##  (Apr 26, 2015)

What a handsome boy!!!!


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## AnnaC (Apr 27, 2015)

Hi Tracie. I posted on your main forum thread before coming here - I see you are already here! Welcome to the Nutty Nursery. You have a pretty little mare and I think she is very close to producing her baby particularly as she has foaled before. Now is the time to be sitting up right with her all night as assistance at foaling can be needed within minutes of the onset of labour (but hopefully not!), no whizzing off to the loo or to make a quick cuppa! Hopefully you will only have a few days/nights to be sleep deprived - unlike a lot of folks who have many mares to sit up with over the foaling season - but there is nothing quite like being there to welcome a new little life into the world (as you must know with your job).

Good luck - I'm looking forward to some new baby pictures before very long.


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## paintponylvr (Apr 27, 2015)

Fabio is a beauty - name fits to me!!

I forgot to welcome you to this forum, too, so WELCOME. This is always an exciting time...


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## Stevieandtracie (Apr 28, 2015)

Wow!! You guys are great!' I added the mare/foal feed and she is loving it!! I feel like we have really progressed in the last couple of days. We are at day 345--I have attached today's' pic and one from 3 days ago for comparison.

I would love to hear everyone's opinion on when they think she will deliver!!

Thank you!!

Tracie?


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 28, 2015)

She looks great Tracie



Her udder has filled some more. I agree with Anna in saying she doesn't have long and as Anna said, it could all happen with in the time of making a cuppa





Glad she is enjoying the mare/ foal feed. Keep an eye of the colour inside her Vulva, it may change from a pale pink colour to more of a dark red.


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##  (Apr 28, 2015)

Can you get us a full side shot so we can see how baby is positioned, please. It doesn't look like there is long to wait!


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## SummerTime (Apr 28, 2015)

Welcome to the forum!! This is the best place to learn and get excellent advice! Your minis are very cute! And I would die for hair like your Fabio! Lol looks like your girl is getting very close! Do you know if she has she foaled before?

Got a question for ya! You probably are not leaving her tail wrapped with vet wrap all the time.. Only for pictures? I'm sure that's the case! But I just wanted to ask so I wouldn't worry ...



the vet I worked for told me never to leave their tails wrapped for more than 2 days at the most. It's best to wait to wrap when they go in to labor. That's my 2 cents and given only in love =D someone can correct me if I'm wrong!!

Can't wait to see if baby comes with it's daddy's gorgeous hair!!!


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## Stevieandtracie (Apr 28, 2015)

Hi there!

I have been wrapping her tail at night and removing it during the day. I tried to get a better side pic...I also checked her vulva and it is a light/medium pink in color. Hope this pic helps!


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## Stevieandtracie (Apr 28, 2015)

Oh...and this will be her 2nd foal


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## Ryan Johnson (Apr 28, 2015)

The Picture from behind looks like baby is riding sideways but that's nothing a few good rolls wont fix to help line baby up. When you take the next set of pics , try and take them from down at her level if you can






Watch for any changes in behaviour. I know you only got her recently but it could be the slightest change like she is standing in a different position to where she normally stands.

Hope she doesn't make you wait too much longer , but that will soon be forgotten about when her foal arrives


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## SummerTime (Apr 29, 2015)

Ok good on the tail wrapping!


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## Stevieandtracie (Apr 29, 2015)

Hi! Just a quick update on Star. We are on day 346-- She is laying down more and when standing is lifting her tail more than usual. Other than that not many obvious changes. It is storming her tonight and we had a double rainbow directly over the barn--lets hope that is a sign!! Here are a couple pics from tonight! We are ready for that foal!! What do you think?


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## MyGoldenSunny (Apr 30, 2015)

Do you have a foal this morning????


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##  (Apr 30, 2015)

Sure looks promising. Any news?


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## Stevieandtracie (Apr 30, 2015)

Hi!! No foal yet...she has been lying on her side a lot today-but slowly rolls up once she sees us. I took a couple pics tonight...looks the same to me. I attempted to get a vulva pic but she was not having it tonight!

Thank you for all your help!! My seven year old daughter said 3 weeks ago she thought she would have it May 1st...I kinda laughed thinking she will have it waaaaaaay before than!! Little did I know how stubborn these mares can be!!


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## Stevieandtracie (May 4, 2015)

UPDATE-DAY 351

If the previous owners dates are right we are soon closing in on Day 351. Not very many changes to report...I have actually second guessed myself on her pregnancy!! Lol!! Here is a pic from today. Can anyone tell any changes at all from my last pics?

Thanks!

Tracie


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## Stevieandtracie (May 4, 2015)

Here is the pic


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## Stevieandtracie (May 4, 2015)

What a day!! Lol


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## SummerTime (May 4, 2015)

Wow she is surely pregnant... No need to second guess on that! She has dropped for sure too! Won't be much longer! How is her udder?


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## Cam92646 (May 5, 2015)

I'm with ya at day 350 and same doubting wether she is really prego, lol


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## Stevieandtracie (May 6, 2015)

Cam--I totally understand!! Do you have any pics to share? We can compare!! Here we are again day 353!!


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## Cam92646 (May 6, 2015)

I'm done waiting! Give me that baby


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##  (May 7, 2015)

LOL.......she's working on it!


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## lkblazin (May 7, 2015)

In due time lol


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## Stevieandtracie (May 12, 2015)

Day 359...I am tired so I can't imagine how she feels!! Vet check scheduled for Monday if she doesn't deliver by then.


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## SummerTime (May 12, 2015)

That's a nice udder!! Maybe she isn't as far along as 359 days? Is that possible? I bet you are so tired!! I feel bad for you!


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## Stevieandtracie (May 12, 2015)

It is possible!! She had been with the stallion sharing a pasture for almost a year. The previous owner said she thought she was bred 5/18/14....but who knows!! What would you think? I also heard that many mini's have been going 12 months this year? I


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## SummerTime (May 12, 2015)

Well with that nice udder I would say that she certainly couldn't go past another month... I would say not even 2 weeks... Her vulva still looks toght and unwilling to let go of anything in there though! Lol but it's so hard to say... My mare kept me up a solid month... No exaggeration! She had a nice full udder for a whole month. I was so exahusted and I got sick! And then she had him during the day for me



I would personally think she is not quite 359 days yet... But I have only foaled out one mini and I have just learned by keeping up with everyone's post and their mares, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about! We need Diane!! And Anna!!


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## lkblazin (May 12, 2015)

Yes!!!! I'll call Diane...APPY!!!!!!!!ITS RAINING APPALOOSAS!!! Lol

She should be on soon. Probably eating diner. Oh wait not everyone is in my time zone


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## AnnaC (May 13, 2015)

Hi I'm still around but still with a dodgy internet connection (the main hub is far away from my laptop which doesn't help either). Most days I get here to do a fast read through if possible before I lose everything, so if you have a question just ask and I will try to post a reply while everything is working!

Your girl looks to be perfectly on target to foal before very long (in my opinion). I would say that your dates are wrong and she is not overdue. Keep a watch for those teats to fill and also - if she will let you - keep a check on the colour inside her vulva as any changes towards a redish colour could mean a baby within a day or two. I wouldn't bother with a vet check, no need to upset her by having someone 'fiddle' with her at this late stage. Just watch for the last minute changes I have mentioned plus any 'different' behaviour and then WATCH 24/7 as you will have a baby arriving before very long.

It has really bothered me this year reading about the amount of foals that have been born this year - luckily safely - without their owners being there. Too many times I have read "I went/got up to check on her an hour later and there was a baby". We (in most cases) choose to breed from these mares and they deserve our undivided attention at the time of the birth. I know it is hard, exhausting and often very frustrating, but you MUST be there. I'm sorry if I have upset anyone, not my intention, but this is something that I feel VERY strongly about!!

Ok, off my soap box now - good luck with your pretty girl - cant wait to see the pictures of the baby soon arriving!


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##  (May 13, 2015)

DITTO what Anna said. It won't be long, and I also think the dates are a bit wrong.

Sorry I didn't get the appaloosa call, Chanda. I got home really late and just crashed.


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## SummerTime (May 13, 2015)

I agree with you Anna! And I'm not offended! You, Diane and Renee helped me for sure to watch like crazy with Summer, and I appreciated that because I was able to assist Summer with her birth which was such a wonderful experience!


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## lkblazin (May 13, 2015)

Diane, I figured since you are usually very quick and alert, that you must have been busy


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##  (May 13, 2015)

Yup. I know that I post my phone number so people can call in an emergency (863-990-3210) -- which they do and I'm always happy to help, but I was so exhausted, I just couldn't make it.


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## Cam92646 (May 15, 2015)

We are at 360 still no baby! My mare was with stallion until June 14 if that's the case based on a 21 day cycle we are 342. Which ever it is we still have no baby. How about you?


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## Mane_and_Tail (May 15, 2015)

If i use my foal calculator based on a 330 days , it gives me the 10 of mai as a foaling date for your mare and she would be now at day 335 witch foaling calculator are you using? and we are talking about june not july right ?


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## Mane_and_Tail (May 15, 2015)

and when they are bred i know that the ''egg'' can float up to 2 week before it attach itself into the uterus. This is one of the raison that there is no really due date in horses only approx date


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## Cam92646 (May 15, 2015)

I used same calculator her cycle based on 21 days would have started on June 7, she was observed in heat and bred may 17-20. So I think 21 days from the 17 of May is how to count it. I may be wrong not sure? But if that's accurate makes her 342 today.


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## Mane_and_Tail (May 15, 2015)

Has she been in heat in june ? if not you are right she could be around 350++ days

the way i calculate things is let say a mare last bred was the 10 of june , i add a couple of days or a week so it takes me to the 15-16 of june then i use the foal calculator with this date , . I may be wrong too but it worked for me ?

Can you get an udder shot ? what is it looking like today ?


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## Cam92646 (May 15, 2015)

Mane and tail I'm at work tonight. She has a small utter, and I bought her bred so I'm going on the word of the breeder thanks for all the help


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## paintponylvr (May 16, 2015)

I'd never heard of waiting 2 weeks before using the calculators before... that's a new one. Our calculations were always based on the last known cover/breeding date. They've worked well for us over the years. Pasture breeding (which I do, too) confuses the dates as you'd be surprised how many come back into heat...

The 330 days for minis was a surprise - but I always had big horses and then large ponies. I still follow the average of 340 days now - because our larger shetlands seem to correspond more to that than to the 330 days (well I DID have one go 333 in 2013, but the rest all have gone past the 340 day mark). We also had one large pony mare that consistently foaled 7 foals between 310 and 319 days after the last breeding date and on several of those breedings was covered only 1 time (live covers), so it's a challenge to know "when".

Your mare is looking good!


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## Mane_and_Tail (May 16, 2015)

Paintponylvr i don't wait 2 weeks i only add couple of days , pasture bred only , i heard that this is why they say to add + or - 20 days to the due date because of the egg thing.. I dont claim at all to have the right way to calculate


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## paintponylvr (May 17, 2015)

Ah... ok...


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## SummerTime (May 17, 2015)

Any updates Stevieandtracie? How's your little gal doing?


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## Stevieandtracie (May 18, 2015)

It is with a heavy heart that I have to make this post. Star delievered her foal sometime betweeen 3-5am and I found it dead in the sac. She showed no signs at her last check of labor. I feel extremely guility and sick to my stomach.


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## Stevieandtracie (May 18, 2015)

Here is what I found


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## chandab (May 18, 2015)

So sorry for your loss. Don't beat yourself up, it has happened to us all.


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## Mane_and_Tail (May 18, 2015)

Very sorry for your lost



, i think the same as Chandab don't beat up yourself about it ..


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## SummerTime (May 18, 2015)

Oh no! I am so so sorry


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##  (May 18, 2015)

I'm very sorry to read this. 

Let's us all learn from this sad occurrence, that these ladies need our help as they near delivery, even when it's not a dystocia, sometimes the placenta is tough, and baby can't break through on his/her own.

We've unfortunately all had this happen, and I lost my "heart" filly this way once, deciding that momma wasn't pregnant after going back and forth for literally 6-8 weeks. On the DAY I decided momma wasn't pregnant, I put her in pasture, and came home from work to find this.....which from the looks she had early in the morning after I left for work, and didn't have anyone staying with her.





Which is why I never quite give up on these mares that don't look pregnant. So, be comforted, we have all suffered through this sadness, and it makes us more attentive in the future, which only benefits your upcoming future foals.


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## Ryan Johnson (May 18, 2015)

So sorry to read this. If there is one thing that we can all learn from this is that its imperative that we are there during delivery.

Know that you have our support and best wishes during this time, Take care


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## KLM (May 18, 2015)

So sorry. Yes, It has happened to everyone I know that breeds. These darn mares that like to be sneaky. The #1 reason I will have cameras and alarms next foaling season.


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## Stevieandtracie (May 18, 2015)

Thank you all for your kind words. I have beat myself up over this. I have came to the conclusion that is NO way I could have physically been there 24/7. I also am a mom of 2 very active girls, a full-time nurse, and a wife. While I feel I did my best I can't help but to take a offense to some of the comments.

We bought Star not knowing she was PG...I did not ask for this but feel I did the best I could. As mentioned above...I hope this serves as a 'lesson' that these mares will deliver when they want to--and preferably when they are alone. If you are lucky enough not to work, or do not have a family, etc...you may be able to be there. I tried...and deep down I know I did my best and I am at peace with that.

Once again, thank you all for the support over the last month...tonight will be the first full nights sleep that I have had. I don't know what 'lesson' that you can learn from my experience it truly was devastating and I hope no one ever had to go through this--especially that my two daughters found the dead little filly (as they checked her before school as well). In no way was Star ever left more than a couple hours without a check nor did she act suspicious when I checked her at 2AM. It is all very sad.


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##  (May 18, 2015)

Please rest well, and know you did the best you could, and no one can ask more of you than that. We are all feeling your sorrow, but be at peace. I hope you were able to help your girls through it. It can be very upsetting, but sometimes sad things happen. As long as momma is fine, there are always other years. I grew up on a farm, and while sometimes the lessons are hard, I believe they prepared me for many things that have happened to me in my life.

Sending you lots of {{{{{HUGS}}}}}

~~Diane


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## AnnaC (May 19, 2015)

I'm so very sorry to read of your loss, but as has been said, dont beat yourself up over it. You certainly did your very best for your little mare what with your busy life and a young family, plus the fact that you didn't breed the mare in the first place.

Sending ((((HUGS)))) to you and your daughters.


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## lkblazin (May 19, 2015)

I'm very sorry. I havent been on the forum in a couple days, and missed this entirely. You did everything that was humanly possible, and being humans is all we really are.


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## Cam92646 (May 21, 2015)

I am so sorry! When we lost lalas foal I too felt so guilty like I could have done something different. Trust me u did everything you could! So sorry


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## Kim P (May 24, 2015)

I am late on this but I am so sorry to hear the sad news. I know your whole family had to be heart broken. I hope you all are doing better.


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