# Backing



## Jetiki (Sep 10, 2011)

So how do you ask your horse to back?

I ask for a slight forward motion but not letting them take a step with my hands then ask them to back I usually get a nice relaxed back.

Watching the Nationals classes I felt bad for a couple of kids that their horse didn't back but I also thought ya know if they would have asked for a touch of forward before the back like when the judge was 3 horses away they would have gotten that back. I also cringed when I saw a couple of kids slapping reins on rumps. You have a whip for a reason use it.

What do ya'll do?

Karen


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## Flying minis (Sep 10, 2011)

Jetiki said:


> I also cringed when I saw a couple of kids slapping reins on rumps. You have a whip for a reason use it.
> 
> What do ya'll do?
> 
> Karen


Adam Longman was helping my son from the rail at a show, and my son (and I) both about burst out laughing when Adam said "You have a whip. It's not an accessory!"


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## Sue_C. (Sep 10, 2011)

I too have always treated a back-up as a "forward motion", even when training my riding horses. I ask for a step forward, and then "close the door (hands) and the horse will generally roll right back into a backup. Once you start insisting on a back up by trying to pull them back, you will encounter resistance, and even if you eventually get the back-up, it will be hollow-backed and ugly.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Sep 11, 2011)

I've never consciously asked for a forward motion before the actual backup, however I certainly treat it as a forward motion in that I expect the horse to go up into the bridle and step back in a balanced, rounded fashion. My horses know to go on the vertical when I pick up contact so I ask for their attention by doing so, say the horse's name as a warning (at which point they go up into the bridle in anticipation of a transition), then ask verbally for the back while lightly pulsing the reins once for each step. The horse has learned that I soften as soon as he rocks his weight back so I build that into taking a step, then two steps, then more. By the time I'm at a competition the sequence is take up contact (wake them up), warn them with their name, ask verbally for the back, pulse the reins, release pulsing when I want them to stop and say "whoa" if necessary. Praise.

I want a good diagonal movement without any dragging of feet or widening of the stance. (For that reason I also keep their tails no longer than just brushing the ground! I hate seeing them step on it painfully as they try to do what I ask.)

Leia


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## ThreeCFarm (Sep 11, 2011)

I do as Leia does, except I don't say their name. On a riding horse, I do combine leg and rein.


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## LazyRanch (Sep 13, 2011)

I guess those of us who rode dressage before driving it have all learned the rein back is a forward motion, as are all movements in dressage. So maybe we tend to ask for that forward movement without even thinking about it. PJ backs beautifully because he has never learned any other way:

bring the hind leg up and forward, but forward motion is checked in the bridle

the "backdoor" is left open, while the movement is encouraged to continue

there is really only one way for him to go, so the front of the diagonal pair follows the hind by coming up, forward and back

since that diagonal pair is in movement and not shuffling, the "stride" is more like a trot, and longer than a shuffle, so the opposite diagonal is engaged

diagonal #2 picks up where diagonal #1 left off, lifting, coming forward, checked with too much momentum to quit, then comes back

The sequence is repeated step by step. I think the biggest problems are that the back is never really broken down when taught. It should always be taught as:

a forward movement

a movement of diagonal pairs

a movement of an engaged horse

Rascal was taught "just like every other 'arena' horse" I am told. He gets in a line up and stands - very static, and on my hands. When I first started to back him, he was actually resting his jaw on me (I think he was napping), so it was like backing a statue. He has since learned better, although I think missing his nap makes him cranky.

I was taught *not* to teach a horse to back in hand - the logic was that then the horse learns to shuffle backwards - not unlike an untempo'd extended trot - rather than to actually move forward at the rein back. Different cultures, different methods!


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## RhineStone (Sep 13, 2011)

I was just working with another competitor this weekend who was having an awful time getting her horse to back. Turns out it was mostly in the harnessing. Her breeching was way too loose and she was backing a Meadowbrook with the strap (treeless) saddle. Once we tightened the breeching, the horse only argued once and then backed up wonderfully.

Knowing that most mini breed harnesses have a strap saddle and no breeching, it wouldn't surprise me if the horses that aren't backing are getting pinched in the spine with the saddle, especially if they practice with a breeching harness and only put the "show harness" on for the show. Yes, the show carts are lighter than a Meadowbrook, but I've actually had a mare that refused to back with the same breed show set up. As soon as we changed out for a harness with a saddle and breeching, she backed that same show cart great!

Myrna


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## LazyRanch (Sep 13, 2011)

I am going to most humbly question this, Myrna.

Most people watch PJ back and ask what I am doing. I get in their cart and without fail - and mostly within 5 minutes, the horse will back quietly, with engagement, diagonal pairs working, and straight. Some of them are Preliminary horses who have "never" mastered the rein back. These are minis working in treed saddles, with breeching, and a couple of them have been doing dressage tests for years.

The only difference is that I am approaching the rein back with the idea that it is, first and foremost, a forward movement.

I am not saying the breed harness are not part of the problem - and I haven't had to deal with horses who are in fine harness. I am just considering that, both astride and in harness, I have seen some ghastly efforts at backing up, and nearly all of them have been lacking of understanding in the basic movement itself. I don't include yourself in this group, obviously; I do believe you handling the horse probably had more affect than changing the saddle, though.

IMHO



RhineStone said:


> Knowing that most mini breed harnesses have a strap saddle and no breeching, it wouldn't surprise me if the horses that aren't backing are getting pinched in the spine with the saddle, especially if they practice with a breeching harness and only put the "show harness" on for the show. Yes, the show carts are lighter than a Meadowbrook, but I've actually had a mare that refused to back with the same breed show set up. As soon as we changed out for a harness with a saddle and breeching, she backed that same show cart great!
> 
> Myrna


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## RhineStone (Sep 14, 2011)

By all means does handling the horse properly make for a proper back.




You had already mention that, so I was _adding_ a different dimension as to why some horses (especially horses in the show ring) may not back properly. The mare I was referring to was shown quite a bit to the Nationals level. She just quit backing for us one day when she was about 16 yrs. old. We finally noticed that when she took a step back, the thimbles and wrap straps on the show harness (without breeching) caused the saddle to rotate and dig into her spine when she took one step back. Then she would stop. She still dropped her head to back, but just refused to take any more steps, even when backing downhill. We didn't change how we asked for the back, just the equipment. We had been driving for about 10 years when that had happened. As horses get older, their bodies around their spines fall away some and "expose" their spines more. Considering that Karen was watching a youth class, my guess is that those horses are not necessarily spring chickens. So, yes, the equipment may have had some play into why those horses refused to back. That, and the young, uneducated hands on the reins. (My son, however, knows how to get a proper back!






)

Myrna


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