# God



## MiniMaid (Apr 16, 2009)

[SIZE=10pt]Okay,please dont be offended. I don't want haters,but I am posting this on a public fourm so thats what I get...xD[/SIZE]

I dont understand "god". I mean,do you honestly belive in the bottom of your heart that there is a magic dude in the sky that controls who we love,what we do,and such? Do you honestly think "god" wants everyone to hate Gays,lesbians,emo kids,and people of other religions? What about the fact someone is constantly watching you always? And some of the bible storys -- WTH? Some random guy put two of EVERY single kinda animal on a boat? None of them ate eachother? Or had babies? I dont seriously belive that.

I think yall should watch this video.

*Note there is alot of cursing*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-yjBLVz5jk

^^^

I totally agree with that.

XOXO!

-R


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## Ashley (Apr 16, 2009)

Well the link didnt work.

Personally I think you are asking for things to get heated with this topic.


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## RockRiverTiff (Apr 16, 2009)

I think you're taking offense with what is a very narrow-minded interpretation of "God" anyway. There are so many things in my life--let alone the world--that I can't explain. That doesn't mean that I deny that they exist. Even if I don't believe in something, if I can't prove that it _doesn't_ exist I'm not going to judge someone for believing that it does. Ultimately you have to decide what rings true for you.


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## Sonya (Apr 16, 2009)

Your entire paragraph tells me that you really don't know much about religion and God, so maybe you should learn first...go to a bible study and see if it is something you want to have faith in before you make a decision on what to believe or NOT believe...it is a personal choice that only you can make.


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## rockin r (Apr 16, 2009)

I for one, do believe in a higher being. And I do call him GOD. I have been blessed with many miracles. Some at the time, I did not realize but do now. It has been my faith in GOD that has got me to where I am right now. I beleive that there are angels on earth, they are called true friends to the very end, good, bad and indifferent, they see you through. I did not open the link. No need for me to do so...I for one take comfort in knowing HE is constantly watching me and with me. HE is more than GOD to me, he is my friend...


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## MiniMaid (Apr 16, 2009)

Sonya said:


> Your entire paragraph tells me that you really don't know much about religion and God, so maybe you should learn first...go to a bible study and see if it is something you want to have faith in before you make a decision on what to believe or NOT believe...it is a personal choice that only you can make.



Well,actually I tried that...that is kinda what drove me to this thread.

I've lived 11 years of people trying to get me to see the way,and I dont like people pushing me to do anything. Heck,I have memorized many bible quoats,read alot of the storys,and gone to church...so it's not like I havent given it any attempt to care.



> I think you're taking offense with what is a very narrow-minded interpretation of "God" anyway. There are so many things in my life--let alone the world--that I can't explain. That doesn't mean that I deny that they exist. Even if I don't believe in something, if I can't prove that it doesn't exist I'm not going to judge someone for believing that it does. Ultimately you have to decide what rings true for you.


I am not convinced he doesent excist,but with what (some) christans say about how all the Gays and Atheists are going to heck,i just think "Wow,if you're the kind of person that goes to heaven I'd rather go to heck,that'd be more fun!"



> Well the link didnt work.
> Personally I think you are asking for things to get heated with this topic.


I'll fix that.

I know that,but I had to get this out somewere.


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## Sonya (Apr 16, 2009)

> Well,actually I tried that...that is kinda what drove me to this thread.I've lived 11 years of people trying to get me to see the way,and I dont like people pushing me to do anything. Heck,I have memorized many bible quoats,read alot of the storys,and gone to church...so it's not like I havent given it any attempt to care.


So...it sounds like you feel you have done your homework and you decided to not have faith in it...that's fine, that's your decision...so then why are you asking the question in the first place? Is it you want to know why others can believe in something that you obviously find ridiculous (by the wording of your paragraph)? Are you wanting people to try to convince you (no one should force religion or non religion on anyone)? Or are you wanting to try and convince others with a link? (I didn't click on the link, I don't need to). I guess I'm just not sure what the intent of your original post is when you clearly have made up your mind on what to believe or not believe. No offense, just don't get why you started the topic.


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## lilmiraclesfarm (Apr 16, 2009)

This is deffinently a heated topic, but I personally don't believe in a god. I was baptised a christian. Went to church & bible school. I even did the vacation bible school. I just don't believe in it. I believe in the spirits and rencarnation. My family has always gotten mad at me for it, but I can't help what I don't believe in.


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## MiniMaid (Apr 16, 2009)

Sonya said:


> > Well,actually I tried that...that is kinda what drove me to this thread.I've lived 11 years of people trying to get me to see the way,and I dont like people pushing me to do anything. Heck,I have memorized many bible quoats,read alot of the storys,and gone to church...so it's not like I havent given it any attempt to care.
> 
> 
> So...it sounds like you feel you have done your homework and you decided to not have faith in it...that's fine, that's your decision...so then why are you asking the question?



I'm asking,becuase I feel like everyone except my mom and my best friend will hate me for being an atheist.


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## Sonya (Apr 16, 2009)

> I'm asking,becuase I feel like everyone except my mom and my best friend will hate me for being an atheist.


Well no one should hate anyone because of their choice of religion...and really it's no one's business but yours on what you choose. I can tell you that I am a Christian and I have friends of different religions and friends and family that are athiest...I do not hate anyone! It is your personal decision and whatever you decide you should not be chastized for it, if you are, then those are friends you don't need anyhow!


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## Magic (Apr 16, 2009)

My brother is an Atheist, I have friends who are Athiests. My two daughters and I all believe quite differently. It doesn't matter.



What each person believes is a highly personal issue, and I encouraged my children to search out what they felt was true, and go with it.

I think that it doesn't matter so much what we BELIEVE-- it's how we ACT that really matters.


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## ~Lisa~ (Apr 16, 2009)

I will just say this I think whatever you believe - if you are going to claim it then live it. If your belief or religion or spirituality makes you a truly better person and you live your life following the ideals you claim to hold dearly then that is wonderful. That can only make the world a better place if it helps you be a caring, kind, compassionate, non judgemental, empathetic person. Of course no one is perfect we all make mistakes and sometimes we make them over a few times before we learn but if you truly strive to live your life being a better person doing unto those as you wish they would do unto you- More power to you



*You could pray to a tree for all I care if it makes you feel good and makes you strive to be good the world can only be a better place*

Sadly not all choose to try and be better or make this world a better place. People can claim any religion or belief and use it to hide behind. Including a non belief





(sorry for the bold on the last part I wanted to bold one line and now can not unbold)

edited to add

It seems like you lost faith in people who use their religion to foster hate and ignorance.. I to have met people like that who somehow thinking going to Church on Sunday somehow makes them able to do whatever they like during the week that is about as far from the values they say they follow.

Again no one is perfect we all make mistakes and we all hurt others sometimes intentional sometimes not the key is what you do with that information once you realize it and how you stop from doing it again.

I have been let down by many people and am not one who claims to be religious or affiliate myself with any one religion but I do realize the difference in losing faith in some people being very different then losing faith period.

Seeing hate disguised as religion is something that is hard to swallow and comprehend especially for me when I was younger the older I get the easier it is for me to seperate the 2 and that came with meeting some from many different beliefs who truly live what they follow and seeing the peace and greatness that comes to them thru that. It allows me to see and appreciate and respect those that follow the values they say they hold dear.


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## CyndiM (Apr 16, 2009)

I too believe in God and angels. I have been helped and protected by Him and His angels more than once.

There is nothing nor anyone who can make you believe in something you don't want to. I do *NOT* believe God wants people to hate or hurt anyone or anything.

*God is good and loving. *


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## minimule (Apr 17, 2009)

It isn't God that says "hate Gays/Lesbians/Atheisits, etc...." it is people. God says to love each other as yourself. To me that says that I am to love everyone equally (now....can I personally do that......



). I could go into a lot of Bible stuff about how I was raised and what I believe but I'm not going to. I grew up in a very strict and "Godly" religion. There were just as many hypocrites in that religion as there are in any other.

Each religion has branched off from another religion. All religion was created by men. It is flawed. To each his own.

As far as Noah and the ark and all the "Pairs" of animals....there was a reason for a pair of each kind of animal



. They were to procreate and replenish the Earth.............


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## mininik (Apr 17, 2009)

George Carlin... Religion is Bullsh*t skit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Also check out Bill Maher's Religulous:


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## mininik (Apr 17, 2009)

minimule said:


> As far as Noah and the ark and all the "Pairs" of animals....there was a reason for a pair of each kind of animal
> 
> 
> 
> . They were to procreate and replenish the Earth.............



Do people honestly believe the Noah's Ark story... happened? Seriously, that must have been quite the trick feeding all those pairs of (how many MILLIONS of?) species for 40 days on a giant ark... with only how many people to care for and pick up after them all and keep them from killing eachother?


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## Lil' Horse Lover (Apr 17, 2009)

"I am not convinced he doesent excist,but with what (some) christans say about how all the Gays and Atheists are going to heck,i just think "Wow,if you're the kind of person that goes to heaven I'd rather go to heck,that'd be more fun!" 

Well, I'm a Christian and I can tell you I've never regretted it. And please don't anyone get upset with anything that I've posted, if you have a question about something that I've stated than thats fine. Now about what you said about how Christians say that all gays and atheists are going to heck (now I never use this as a curse word, I use it in context as it is a real place). And you know what, its true, but it's also true that liars and theives are going to heck also, not just gays. (any person who doesn't belive in God will go to heck, whether or not someone has killed someone or is gay, all those who don't believe in God, as it says in the Bible, will go to heck) Sin is sin, no matter what it is. But that's a different topic..... Now even though it's true I don't go saying it like that, I'll tell people it out of love for them, hoping that they'll see the truth. But I don't go bashing them with it and if they disagree with me than thats fine, I trust that God will be working in their hearts if they'll let Him. Sometimes your friends or people that are Christians will keep telling you that you need to believe in God or whatever is because they love you and because they know the truth and they just want you to see it to. Course I don't agree with people bashing on other people and shoving it down their throat, there are other ways to come across. If someone disagrees with me (which I know a lot of people who do) I don't get all upset and "heated up" about it, I just lovingly tell them what I know to be true and if they want I'll show them in the Bible where it says what I'm saying. God is my defense about what I say, His Word (the Bible) backs up what I say. The Bible isn't just a book that has a bunch of made up locations and stories, they are all real places, in the different passages where it talks about different prophesies there are things that have come true, fullfilling the prophesy. Everything lines up, different events that it talks about in the Bible have all ready happened and there are more prophesies that have yet to be fulfilled. I still have yet to read the whole Bible but everything I have read is really amazing when you really take the time to read it and study it and take the time to _understand _it.

Also, I always encourage people to not look at/to other people (who profess to be Christians) to find out who God is and what He's like, let Him show you for yourself. We are all human and mess up, nobody's perfect, which is why it's really foolish to look to people to find out what God's like and who He is. But I'm not saying that Christians shouldn't try to please God and be like Him, we are called to be a reflection of Him and to follow His example. But no matter how "good" we try to be other people will always be able to find some fault in us. So I encourage you not to look to professing Christians to find out what God is really like, let God show you who He is for Himself. You can do so by reading the Bible, studying it. I'd encourage you to just go get (if you don't already have one) a New King James Version Study Bible and read it. Alot of it might not make sense (at least not now) but don't give up. I'd encourage you to read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. And if you don't get it the first time read through it again and again, and take it slow, think it through. Read through Genesis and Exodus, it'll all explain itself. But if you're not really into reading on your own or studying on your own than there are a lot of good videos/dvds that I know of that you should watch, Of course I'm not saying you have to do any of what I"m suggesting, because that's all they are, suggestions, you can take what I'm saying or leave it. It's all up to you





And about the whole Noah and the Ark deal, well if God has the power to create you and I (let alone the whole universe) than I'd say that He has the power to feed that many animals and keep them from killing each other


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## Jill (Apr 17, 2009)

I consider myself very spiritual and I do believe in God.

However, I do not belong to any organized religion. To me, organized religion is a turn off and I don't think you'd ever "catch" me in church on Sunday morning. That is just my own personal choice and in following with what I am comfortable doing. When I was younger, this was confusing to me... confusing to separate my faith in God from my discomfort with organized religion (in case this could be part of what you are thinking through).

There are things that have happened in my life that tell me there is a God and there is an afterlife. Our spirits go on.



CyndiM said:


> I too believe in God and angels. I have been helped and protected by Him and His angels more than once.
> There is nothing nor anyone who can make you believe in something you don't want to. I do NOT believe God wants people to hate or hurt anyone or anything.
> 
> *God is good and loving. *


This is also how I feel


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## miniaddiction (Apr 17, 2009)

I think its great that you are searching, Good for you!

You said you don't understand how someone could control what we do, how we feel, who we love... He doesn't. Its called free will, one of His many gifts to us.

Its such a controversial subject that I don't want to confuse you further, so I wont go on. I will however be praying for you.

God loves you.


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## nbark (Apr 17, 2009)

I believe there is something out there, but the bible, I do not believe in. It is a book of contradictions. Like, God forgives all sins, then why does he need a heck.. And if he forgives all sins what about suicide, the bible says you go to limbo. It is a book written by men to control the population and it ain't working. I would swear on the telephone book before I swore on the bible. JMO

AND I went to parochial school or as I referred to it "Brainwashing" school. Didn't do well. Plus the nuns had those big sleeves to hide weapons in.


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## SampleMM (Apr 17, 2009)

I have a sister-in-law that's an atheist. It breaks my heart to think that she believes once the body dies that's it. I believe the soul goes on and lives for eternity.

Faith is a gift that not everyone gets.


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## kaykay (Apr 17, 2009)

I did notice that the original poster is a youth member. It is very typical at a certain age to start questioning things and trying to be more independent etc.

Just try to keep your mind open to everything and as you mature you may find that you change your mind again.

I do know that when religion is forced on someone it never works, and often has the opposite effect.

For me God is everywhere in my life.


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## AppyLover2 (Apr 17, 2009)

Many years ago I was exposed to the hypocracy of the elders of the church I attended. After that day I never set foot inside those doors again. Did that mean I decided there was no God? My simple answer is a resounding NO. My church is out-doors. I find and worship my God when I look at the wonders around me. The sunrise glittering on the water, the trees beginning to turn green as spring arrives, the flowers and beauty all around me is my cathedral.

You'll make many decisions in your lifetime. Some will be right and some not. Our beliefs are ours to do with what we will.


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## Jill (Apr 17, 2009)

Donna, what you just said is beautiful!


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## Bunnylady (Apr 17, 2009)

I think it is very sad that somehow, you have gotten the impression that God wants you to hate. My father is a minister. I was practically raised at the foot of the altar (you know what they say about preachers' kids!) The God I know is a God of love. I am called, not to condone or condemn, but to love. Hate the sin, not the sinner. God loves us, he wants us to love each other. People may choose to do things that are contrary to God's purpose and plan, but that doesn't make God hate them, and we aren't to hate them, either. God didn't make us robots, doing exactly as we are commanded. He gave us brains and lets us choose, we must live with the consequences of our choices.

nbark, the concept of "the hot place" used to give me problems, too. But God didn't make that as a place to punish bad people. It was a place for the devil and his angels. God's presence is what makes heaven such a wonderful place, there is a little bit of God in everyone and everything. He11 is the one part of creation where He isn't. Some theologians describe it not as hot, but as cold, a void, a place that is empty of all that is good. When I try to envision a place where there is no kindness, compassion, or generosity, where all is greed and selfishness and indifference, that sounds pretty hellish to me! And BTW, limbo and Purgatory are Catholic concepts, most people don't find that in their Bibles!


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## cretahillsgal (Apr 17, 2009)

I, like many of the posters before me, do not follow any certain religion. To me Christianity is not is what church you attend it is how you act and how you treat other people, animals, and things.

I too am looked down upon because I do not attend church. But many of the people looking down on me are hypocrites in my eyes. They curse and treat and judge others poorly for circumstances beyond their control. But then those same people go to church on Sunday and think they are "christian" and better than me. To me organized religion is a sheild that people use to hide their sins and make themselves feel better.

I can think of 3 people who in the last month have told me that I need to be going to church and taking my children to church and told me that I am going to "heck" because I don't.

1. An achoholic who refuses to obey the law and stay off the road when he has been drinking. Has already had many wrecks and is going to injure or kill somebody with his carelessness.

2. A "christian" farmer who in his spare time dabbles in drugs. Has been sent to prison for growing marajuana. And was caught manufacturing meth using the anhydrous that he buys under the pretense that he is fertilizing his crops with it.

3. A relative who NEVER has anything nice to say about anybody. Is always talking bad about others. And every other word is a curse word, even when around my children.





Does all this mean that I don't believe? Not at all. Does this mean that I am not christian? I don't think so.


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## nbark (Apr 17, 2009)

Bunnylady said:


> I think it is very sad that somehow, you have gotten the impression that God wants you to hate. My father is a minister. I was practically raised at the foot of the altar (you know what they say about preachers' kids!) The God I know is a God of love. I am called, not to condone or condemn, but to love. Hate the sin, not the sinner. God loves us, he wants us to love each other. People may choose to do things that are contrary to God's purpose and plan, but that doesn't make God hate them, and we aren't to hate them, either. God didn't make us robots, doing exactly as we are commanded. He gave us brains and lets us choose, we must live with the consequences of our choices.
> nbark, the concept of "the hot place" used to give me problems, too. But God didn't make that as a place to punish bad people. It was a place for the devil and his angels. God's presence is what makes heaven such a wonderful place, there is a little bit of God in everyone and everything. He11 is the one part of creation where He isn't. Some theologians describe it not as hot, but as cold, a void, a place that is empty of all that is good. When I try to envision a place where there is no kindness, compassion, or generosity, where all is greed and selfishness and indifference, that sounds pretty hellish to me! And BTW, limbo and Purgatory are Catholic concepts, most people don't find that in their Bibles!


Well Bunnylady, there you go, they sent me to a Catholic school! When I referred to heck, it is the bible that says that is where you go if you sin, yet God forgives all sins, that is what I was referring to. I am Episcopalian (hope I spelled that right) but I just don't believe in the the way religion is taught. I totally agree with Donna. I LIVE to get up in the morning and see the sun, the sky, hear the birds, smell the smells of the seasons, feel the air and I try to be the best person I can be. I think that is what MY religion is all about. I don't want or need a person of faith telling me that what I have done with my life is right or wrong, for it is my life and I will pay for it in the end, right or wrong.


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## backwoodsnanny (Apr 17, 2009)

IF I understand from your OP you are 11 years old. You are just starting to question the world around you which is perfectly normal both religion and I am sure other issues. I do consider myself a Christian and I do try to live my life accordingly. I was baptized into a formal religion but have not practiced that religion by going to church for many years but still live my life as I believe God would want me to. Doing unto others as I would have them do to me. Waking each morning counting the blessings I am given in my life . Asking that God help me be a better person. That said do I do things that are ungodly probably I am human and make mistakes .Do I believe I am earning a place in heaven and do I want to be there YES and I try everyday to treat people in a way that will help in that goal. I agree with Donna I see God all around me in the blue sky in the flowers in a new foal and have been given many miracles in my life that I am very thankful for. I think you will make your own decision about what you will believe and that decision is what you will have to live with so be sure to look at all the options before you make a final decision.


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## stormo41 (Apr 17, 2009)

> "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ."-Gandhi


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## Ashley (Apr 17, 2009)

> And you know what, its true, but it's also true that liars and theives are going to heck also, not just gays.


I just cant imagine why(if there is a He!!) why somebody would be sent there for something that isnt a choice.

So if this is true I guess I will join several thousands of others there, includeing some from this board


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## ~Lisa~ (Apr 17, 2009)

While I am not a lesbian I have lied in my lifetime so Ashley I will be joining you. In fact I have been told that before on this very board so all I can say is my handbasket is ready and waiting





All joking aside



> who NEVER has anything nice to say about anybody. Is always talking bad about others


I know some like this as well and I have to remember they are not their faith- they do not practice their religion of choice. Going to Church once a week does not a religious person make. It has taken a long time for me to seperate those type of hypocrites from the faith they lay claim to.

On the flip side I do know many who do practice what they preach so to speak. Who exemplify the beliefs they hold so dear who realize it is not about being perfect but striving to be and live in the name of what they choose to believe in. I respect them a lot. I listen to them and what they say and discuss their religion with them. When someone can be without hate and judgement it is very easy to listen to the passion they have in their beliefs and take a little of this and a little of that and apply what makes sense to me in my own life.

to the OP this is all a normal part of growing up and maturing- questioning things and people is how you learn to make the right choices for yourself- is the way to learn from your mistakes that you will no doubt make just like the rest of us. Instead of judging the religion try and find those who you respect- those who live and treat others the way you would like to and just watch-ask questions and in time you will know what is right for you.


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## Ashley (Apr 17, 2009)

> While I am not a lesbian I have lied in my lifetime so Ashley I will be joining you. In fact I have been told that before on this very board so all I can say is my handbasket is ready and waiting wink.gif


Sweet! I wouldnt mind having you down there with me. Glad you came back to the board, like reading what you post.


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## Watcheye (Apr 17, 2009)

Im with Jill quite a bit actually.

Something else that caught my attention was the topic of Gays. athiests, ect... I personally have a very hard time believing that God would want us to hate and oppose them. Being Gay or athiest is not harming another person. There are great people out there straight, gay, christian, jewish.......all cadegories. I think that it has so much more to do with how you treat others (including animals and our earth) than something as trivial as that.

Appriciate everything good in the world and do what you can to contribute. This has also helped guid me in my life.


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## Lil' Horse Lover (Apr 17, 2009)

sorry I clicked enter too soon lol.....the post below is what I meant to post.


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## Lil' Horse Lover (Apr 17, 2009)

Ashley said:


> > And you know what, its true, but it's also true that liars and theives are going to heck also, not just gays.
> 
> 
> I just cant imagine why(if there is a He!!) why somebody would be sent there for something that isnt a choice.
> ...



It is a choice, nobody has to go to heck, its your choice whether you choose to reject God or not, whether or not you'll commit your life to Him and accept His gift of salvation. Everybody sins, therefore anyone who accepts Gods gift of salvation is free from the bond of sin, free from heck. Thats not saying we won't ever tell a lie again or sin again, we are'nt perfect, but we've accepted Gods sacrifice and we've been forgiven of those sins and therefore can spend eternity with God. It's totally up to you, nobody HAS to go to heck. If you believe in God (the God the Bible talks about) than you will be saved and can go to heaven. It's totally up to you, you have a choice.

Edited to add: Like a couple other posters have said, God is a God of LOVE. He doesnt hate lesbians, gays, liars, theives, etc. Or call us to hate them. On the contrary He LOVES them, very much. Which is why He gave His life, for everybody who will put their trust in Him. God's love isn't conditionary (I think thats a word lol), its unconditional. No matter how many times you get angry at God or push Him away, no matter what you do to Him He's always ready to forgive and be there for you if you want Him to. God has been so good to me, so much more than I deserve.


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## Reble (Apr 17, 2009)

MiniMaid said:


> [SIZE=10pt]Okay,please dont be offended. I don't want haters,but I am posting this on a public fourm so thats what I get...xD[/SIZE]I dont understand "god". I mean,do you honestly believe in the bottom of your heart that there is a magic dude in the sky that controls who we love,what we do,and such? Do you honestly think "god" wants everyone to hate Gays,lesbians,emo kids,and people of other religions? What about the fact someone is constantly watching you always? And some of the bible storys -- WTH? Some random guy put two of EVERY single kinda animal on a boat? None of them ate eachother? Or had babies? I dont seriously belive that.
> 
> I think yall should watch this video.
> 
> ...


I did watch the video but he did not change my view.

In my life, I believe we all have choices, right or wrong, you will come to a cross road one day and you will have to make a choice.

God or higher power is loving, we do have to ask for forgiveness, God just does not forgive.

It sounds like you are being raised, what is best in your home, and once you are older, hope you remember things you are being taught, just might help in your journey.

I like to believe in most things, even the ark, my Mom and Dad would be so surprised with cell phones, computers, seeing people from all around the world, robots now doing our jobs, and many more things, myself I find it hard to believe these things are possible. We as humans have created all of this, so when people get killed, I truly do not believe it is God we should be blaming, the drunk driver, the illness that took someone, blame is so easy to do, but we do have a journey in life, and we are responsible for all we say and do.

Good Luck in your journey, you too will grow and have this conversation again and again.

God Bless


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## Buckskin gal (Apr 17, 2009)

It is the easy way to just believe what we are told rather than search out things for our self. I was raised a Christian but God knows that I have many questions for him since he is said to be alll loving, all knowing and capable of anything. I ask Him why he choose to allow evil, from the very beginning. Poor Adam amd Eve didn't stand a chance for they didn't have previous experiences in dealing with evil. And to top that off God is suppose to be making us pay for the little sin of taking a bite of apple...does that sound like a lovng God to anyone? God had the ability to forgive them of the wrong they done. In fact it seems he had the responsibility to be foorgiving since he allowed eveil in what was suppose to be a perfect place. It can seem to appear that God was very punitive in the way he dealt with many people. God has choices far above the ones we are supposed to have and yet he chose to see that every human being would be paying for the misdeed, mistake, etc that Adam and Eve made. Of course this is the God of the Bible and many people don't or haven't read the Bible and so they make God up for the way they want to see him so that they can feel good. These are just one of many of my thoughts from reading the Bible. I have come to think that '"DOING ONTO OTHERS AS WE WANT DONE ONTO US" is the real meaning of how we are to live.

Someone asked how all the animals survived on the Ark and another answered that He can do anything. And I ask, why doesn't He see that all the starving children in this world are fed instead of slowly dieing from hunger .....which was most important the animals or the people? Mary


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## Just Us N Texas (Apr 17, 2009)

You know, I never discuss religion because I believe that what you believe or don't, is your business, and how I believe is mine and God's. However, I believe as Jill does. I am a born again Christian, but do not believe that organized religion is for me. When you just take things from other people, listen and believe that whatever this person, this preacher said is the end all, know all truth, then you have to question a lot of things. After all, it is just their interpretation. You must learn, and make up your own mind. I see God in all things. I see him in the new foals, in the mothers, in the grass, the trees, the flowers, and in the inner beauty of all people. I have seen miracles! I have had miracles! Read the bible, and interpret it with your heart. Don't take the word of others. Listen to your heart and God will speak to you. Explore other religions. For example, if you are a baptist, it doesn't mean the methodists are wrong, or the catholics or any other religion is wrong. I once threw a huge fit because one of the baptist vacation bible school teachers said that the catholic religion was wrong, and that all catholics go to he11. I do not believe that, and I felt it was wrong that she should teach that to small children. Just because they believe differently than I do doesn't mean either of us is wrong or right. As long as you believe something, and try to treat everything and everyone as you would wish to be treated, I think, is all important.


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## krissy3 (Apr 17, 2009)

I think I understand what you are saying , and to a degree I also feel the same way. I was born a christian and have been to several churches, and confessed my sins , asked god to forgive me etc... I didnt really understand why I had to lower myself to this point to become excepted to this christian church , but tried it anyway. When they told me that there isnt a hevan for animals , or gays ...well thats when I had to look for something new.I think the Bible is very interesting ...some people find it facinating , and some people choose to live by most or every word of it. Thats why the world is such a facinating place , its full of people that feel strongly about many different and contrasting things. I live in a Catholic village...the people that live here are of this religion, I find them to be extreamly unhumanitarian...and the priest wont give me the time of day. However there is a Priest that comes into our hotel from time to time for a glass or two of wine , or dinner. I really like him , he has a great sence of humor, I always give him free wine, and he calls me his angel...He has become my "god" or highly respected higher power. Maybe this is god being presented to me in a form that I can relate to..I dont know , but dont close your eyes on this subject , chances are you just havnt been "touched by god or an angel yet "


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## Marty (Apr 17, 2009)

If anyone has questioned the exsistance of God these past years its been me, and rightly so.

I think it is ok for anyone to question if there is a God and seek out answers; after all, we are only human. We are supposed to believe in a God we have never seen, or heard or met up close and personal. We are supposed to trust in a Supreme Being just because. Its all such a mystery and its our human nature to wonder.

I was taught and always believed in a loving God and that God was Our Father. So I cannot understand WHY Our Father allowed his son Jesus to suffer, and why he allows all of us, his children to suffer? Be it at war in another country, or at the hands of a muggar on the street or a drunk driver in a car, a loving Father is supposed to protect his children, especially the ones that were devoted to him. Well he messed up and forgot to protect mine and that is the part that I just don't get and makes no sense to me. We can all walk through the beauty we see before us in the sunshine and flowers, then come into the house, turn on the news and see the horrific disasters and have to live in a world with saddess everywhere when all he has to do is pull the plug and stop the hurting. I"m not saying I don't believe but it is fair to say that my faith has been severly shaken and tested. Unless anyone can walk a day in my shoes, you can't understand how confusing it all becomes. I sure could have used a miracle and just maybe I'll get one someday. Meanwhile, its all based on faith, trust, and hope again.


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## MiniMaid (Apr 17, 2009)

Thank you for all your replies!!






I will make a long post later but right now i'm drinking too much coffee to make a decent responce.



Marty said:


> If anyone has questioned the exsistance of God these past years its been me, and rightly so.I think it is ok for anyone to question if there is a God and seek out answers; after all, we are only human. We are supposed to believe in a God we have never seen, or heard or met up close and personal. We are supposed to trust in a Supreme Being just because. Its all such a mystery and its our human nature to wonder.
> 
> I was taught and always believed in a loving God and that God was Our Father. So I cannot understand WHY Our Father allowed his son Jesus to suffer, and why he allows all of us, his children to suffer? Be it at war in another country, or at the hands of a muggar on the street or a drunk driver in a car, a loving Father is supposed to protect his children, especially the ones that were devoted to him. Well he messed up and forgot to protect mine and that is the part that I just don't get and makes no sense to me. We can all walk through the beauty we see before us in the sunshine and flowers, then come into the house, turn on the news and see the horrific disasters and have to live in a world with saddess everywhere when all he has to do is pull the plug and stop the hurting. I"m not saying I don't believe but it is fair to say that my faith has been severly shaken and tested. Unless anyone can walk a day in my shoes, you can't understand how confusing it all becomes. I sure could have used a miracle and just maybe I'll get one someday. Meanwhile, its all based on faith, trust, and hope again.



^^^

Yeah that.


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## crponies (Apr 18, 2009)

Marty, have you read the book of Job recently? I would highly recommend it. It is such a moving story of a man who lived an upright life and yet faced so many heartbreaks. He lost his wealth and all of his children in one day.



He did not understand either what he had done to deserve all of this. God came and talked with him, but the thing is, God never did tell him why as far as we know (it's not recorded in the Bible if He did). God simply brought up the point that He is all-powerful and all-wise. Our human brains try to understand things, but in the end there is so much we simply cannot wrap our finite minds around. God is SO BIG. He is SO POWERFUL. It tells us (I think in Jeremiah but would have to look it up to give you the exact reference) that God's thoughts are not man's thoughts, and His ways are not our ways. We cannot fully comprehend the thoughts and ways of God. That's just the way it is. It sure would make things a lot easier if we could always see the reason behind things, if we could know why He allows certain things to happen, but where our understanding ends is where faith begins. Faith hangs on to the truth that God is love (1 John 4:7). Faith rest on the promise that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28). Note the verse does not say that all things are good but that all things work together for good.

As has been said, God does not force anyone to believe. He is the one who created us with free will. Does He hate us for exercising our free will? No, He loves each and every one of us. So, should I hate people for exercising their free will? Of course not! Some of the things people do I find despicable, but that does not mean I hate the person. When one of my students lies to me, I hate that! I absolutely hate being lied to. Does that mean I hate that student? No way! Anyone who chooses to hate both the sinner and the sin is not following Christ's example. Let us not forget that while He was hanging on the cross suffering pain that I cannot imagine, He prayed, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." That my friends is love, full and unconditional. Love looks past the sin and loves the person. As a Christian becomes more like Christ, she will be able to do the same. That doesn't mean the sin does not have consequences. Going back to my previous example, if my student lies to me, you had better believe there will be some consequence for that even though I do love that student. God is no different. He has said that the penalty for any sin is death (Romans 6:23). It doesn't matter if you try to be a good person and only make a few mistakes. One sin in your entire lifetime would be enough to send you to the Lake of Fire. God hates sin and will not allow it into Heaven. He is just, and the price for sin, death, has to be paid. That is why Christ came. That is why He died - to pay the price for my sin and your sin. When a person then makes the choice to place their faith in Christ's death and resurrection, Christ righteousness is placed on that person. God no longer sees the sin but Christ's righteousness. The price for the sin has been paid and that person is now declared righteous. This is such a precious, amazing truth to me! There is nothing I could do, nothing, to deserve Heaven. The only way I (or anyone) is getting there is by faith in Jesus' work.

I pray that more of you would have your eyes opened to these wonderful truths. I am so thankful for God's love and His gracious provision!


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## Maxi'sMinis (Apr 18, 2009)

My 1st true recollection of God touching my life was when I was about 10. I was raised going to chuch but not stricktly. When my brother went to Viet Nam I turned to God and prayer. Every night I said prayers for my beloved brother to be safe and come home to me. During many prayers I felt that my brother was safe. I had strong comforting feelings during my prayers. No one told me to do this, I chose to. My brother did come home! When I was 16, every weekend I went to the Chesapeake Bay with my friend. It was a given. One weekend my Mom wouldn't let me go. I begged till she was mad at me. The answer was no. That next day my best friend was killed in a freak car accident at the beach. I would have been sitting right next to her.

In my life I have had at least 6 times that I have directly felt the hand of God or my higher being touch me in a very profound way.

I could write a book on them, they are all facinating moments of fate must say. Some were life altering.

I also remember questioning my faith when I was somewhere younger than 30.

But growing up with a rock of Gibralter Mother, loving, kind. giving, honest, thoughtful, faithful, it was only natural for me to try to strive to be a smidgeon of what she tried to teach me.

I actually have to thank you for starting this tread. It has been so enlightening and inspiring to read what all my forum friends have to say about this topic. I love diversity. There is some tru wisdom here.

I can only hope that God gave you the open mind to take in all this information and make a good, honest, loving choice for yourself to live by. There will always be challenges and choices to make in your life. I truely believe that what you do in life will come back to you.

God bless.


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## SampleMM (Apr 18, 2009)

Maxi'sMinis said:


> My 1st true recollection of God touching my life was when I was about 10. I was raised going to chuch but not stricktly. When my brother went to Viet Nam I turned to God and prayer. Every night I said prayers for my beloved brother to be safe and come home to me. During many prayers I felt that my brother was safe. I had strong comforting feelings during my prayers. No one told me to do this, I chose to. My brother did come home! When I was 16, every weekend I went to the Chesapeake Bay with my friend. It was a given. One weekend my Mom wouldn't let me go. I begged till she was mad at me. The answer was no. That next day my best friend was killed in a freak car accident at the beach. I would have been sitting right next to her.
> In my life I have had at least 6 times that I have directly felt the hand of God or my higher being touch me in a very profound way.
> 
> I could write a book on them, they are all facinating moments of fate must say. Some were life altering.
> ...


Mary, your post is so touching. I have tears in my eyes. Thanks for sharing your faith.


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## ~Dan (Apr 18, 2009)

I am a catholic, I believe in God and angels and miracles, I also believe people have the right to be what ever they want, they can be jewish, muslim, atheist, gay, emo, lesbian, what ever, I think God still loves them no matter what or who they are. personally, I dont think gays and lesbians will go to heck just because of who they are, are they any less different in Gods love then any one else is, no, every person was created equal in Gods love, I think people go to heck if they do stuff that makes them go there like true evil stuff, and no one knows what happens after you die, no one will until they do, so how dose any one know where any one goes in the next life, not to disrespect any ones beleifs, beacuse everyone is titled to there own belfefs.


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## Marty (Apr 18, 2009)

Jayne, that was beautifully said.

MiniMaid, as I said I think its ok to wonder and question things at any age. But if you are having trouble trying to envision a Super Being we call God, then maybe you can start somewhere else for some answers:

There is much evidence, scientific documented evidence, that there was a good and kind, and gentle man named Jesus who walked the earth. People did see him, touch him, walk with him and hear him and witness miracles performed by him. Perhaps you can concentrate and learn about the life of Jesus, and then the rest should follow. Jesus is my hero.


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## txminipinto (Apr 20, 2009)

I haven't read all the replies but felt compelled to add my 2 cents. This is a hot topic in my family as well. I was raised by parents who go to church every sunday and go to bible school, etc. While that's fine for them, as a grew up in a church I watched and listened to people. And what I discovered was that some of those that go to church can be the biggest hippocrites out there. They preach and study the word, yet dare to judge others for things they don't understand or agree with. I believe God is an all loving god and you don't have to be a member of any special religion or group to have a relationship with him (or her). You don't have to love a certain person or believe in certain things. You just have to be YOU. True to yourself and what you believe in.

I'm a very open individual and have no issues with other people's personal beliefs or sexual preferences. What I do have a problem with is people who push their beliefs on others in the name of God. People who judge other people based on their sexual preferences and treat them ugly for it. People who judge other people based on their race or the race of their spouses or children. People who judge other people based on their social activities. You and I have no right to force our beliefs on someone else.


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## ~Lisa~ (Apr 20, 2009)

txminipinto said:


> What I do have a problem with is people who push their beliefs on others in the name of God. People who judge other people based on their sexual preferences and treat them ugly for it. People who judge other people based on their race or the race of their spouses or children. People who judge other people based on their social activities. You and I have no right to force our beliefs on someone else.


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## Keri (Apr 20, 2009)

Just remember, be true to yourself. That's all you need to do.





I'm with Carin. I can't stand people who push their beliefs on you and believe if you're not with them, you'll burn in heck. But living in Utah (huge mormon capital of the world!), you learn to ignore it. They can be quite pushy and offensive and some of the worst people I know (but they attend church religiously).

As far as your comment on believing in God. I grew up with no religion. Went to church for a while to try and figure it out. But it wasn't for me. Have too much of a scientific background to ignore the evidence of evolution. But that's just me. Hubby has his own beliefs, but we get along just fine.



I could care less if you go to church, what you believe in or your sexual preference. If you are true and honest, people can't help but love you.


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## Pepipony (Apr 20, 2009)

I cant say that I believe in one supreme being, but that all of our ancestors watch over us. Passed critters as well. I believe in evolution, not Intelligent design. I grew up in a blue collar family, grandparents were VERY blue blooded and thought that if made less than 50k ( in the early 80's) you were in poverty and didnt work hard. GM was very God fearing, preached all the time. Yet she took all of her parents assets when they passed and let her sisters go with no dowry ( 1890's). She believed that because she had money, she could absolve herself. I have other family that are blue collar, go to church, LOVE God and do everything right but dont push. I live in TX ( grew up in CT) , color doesnt faze me. Had a work friend over and we walked over to my Step-FILs pond, he freaked out and hollered that I get her N-self off his property. Did I mention he was a Deacon in the local church? I have seen both sides. I dont begrudge anyone believing in what they want. Think that someone having faith in something is more important than having none in anything. Make sense?

A few years back I had a house fire and I was awakened by 'something'. I went to bed with a migraine and took meds, I shouldnt have woken up for short of a bomb blast



Someone was looking out for me. I just dont know if they had hands, paws or hooves


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## CKC (Apr 20, 2009)

Yes, I believe in GOD(and angels) and believe very strongly in the power of prayer. Just recently my family and I were going through something that required prayers. As difficult as it was for me to talk with others I chose to open up and ask for prayers. The prayers were answered recently.

I also, believe that GOD gave us free will and gave me my "intuition". Your decision is the right decision for you. I'm not one to ever push my beliefs on anyone else.

Kim


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## maestoso (Apr 21, 2009)

You have taken a very juvenile stance on the topic. I am not trying to say that your age prevents you from having a valid opinion, but it is hard to take you seriously when you trivialize it like you did. "Some dude in the sky . . ." It shows that you really haven't a clue. Don't take offense to that, personally, I haven't a clue about football, to me it's just a bunch of idiots running around in helmets when only a couple of them actually touch the ball.

To answer your questions, yes I believe in God. I believe that he has a plan in my life and that he is in control. If you you have indeed read and understand the bible, you would know that God doesn't expect you to hate anyone. On the contrary in fact, he specifically says that you should love EVERYONE in his image. You could perhaps be referring to a few individuals, extremists really, that have taken it upon themselves to act as God and to rid the world of anything and anyone they don't like. These groups do not represent christians as a whole or in a fair light. But these are the christians you see and hear about, because these are the christians that make you want to watch the 6 o clock news. Nobody wants to interview a person who starts a prayer group to pray for those in need. Nobody wants to video a story of churches outreaching to the community.

It is clear that you have been offered a small and outlying sample of who and what christianity represents. I would encourage you to utilize other outlets in your research, and promise you that you will be surprised.

To me, it is a scary thought to think that God is NOT in control, not a state that I want to be living in.

Matt


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## CyndiM (Apr 21, 2009)

I have not checked Snopes to find out if this is true or not but I thought it does explain some people's evil actions better than anything I have read before so maybe it will help you understand some of the things you are finding difficult.

Darrell Scott's Speech:

Evil is only as strong as the good let it be...

Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton , Colorado , was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women.. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out f or answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,

Your words are empty air.

You've stripped away our heritage,

You've outlawed simple prayer.

Now gunshots fill our classrooms,

And precious children die.

You seek for answers everywhere,

And ask the question "Why?"

You regulate restrictive laws,

Through legislative creed.

And yet you fail to understand,

That God is what we need!

" Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational

systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your

own heart before casting the first stone!

My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"


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## mandi (Apr 22, 2009)

I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and beliefs and will not judge them for it. I am catholic and have actually gone to different churches and have studied different religions when I was in highschool to see exactly what was right for me. Through it all this is what I have found, There is good and evil where ever we go. There are hypocrates also who go to church claiming they are catholic but every other thing they do in their life shows exactly the contrary. Does that mean that their behavior represents what God wants or who God is... no! If someone is against gays or lesbians that is the devil working, not God! I have also found that there are no bad people just bad actions. I say this since when a child is born they are innocent, and can not possibly do a thing wrong. If there are truly bad people they would have to have been born that way. With regard to the new testament of the Bible many of the stories are not considered factual to many people, but mearly a way to explain to children how the world works. The new testament, is considered factual. For instance, the tower of bable is a story about how everyone was trying to make a tower to reach heaven, God didnt like this so he made everyone speak a different language so that they couldnt communicate, thus they couldnt finish the tower. Parents told their children this story to explain to them why there are so many different languages in the world. The creation story is there for children who ask questions about how the world came to be, or why are there seven days in a week, or why is Sunday a day where people aren't suppose to work, etcetera.

For me it all boils down to this....When a person dies I can let them go knowing that they truly are in a better place somewhere and that I will see them again. If someone I cared about died and I didnt believe in some sort of higher power than what relief would I have, how in the world could someone cope with a persons death if there is nothing but 8 feet under. If what I have now on earth is all that there truly is and death is all that awaits me... What a morbid place this truly is. And if it is like this, then what is the point in being here at all?


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## Buckskin gal (Apr 22, 2009)

"For me it all boils down to this....When a person dies I can let them go knowing that they truly are in a better place somewhere and that I will see them again. If someone I cared about died and I didnt believe in some sort of higher power than what relief would I have, how in the world could someone cope with a persons death if there is nothing but 8 feet under. If what I have now on earth is all that there truly is and death is all that awaits me... What a morbid place this truly is. And if it is like this, then what is the point in being here at all? "

It truly is interesting to hear the comments, opinions and belifs of others. It makes it easy to see why there arer so many branches of Christianity. With so much information to take from the Bible and how it is taken is what has created so many different churches all in the name of Chritianity. The question of "what is the point in being here at all" is sad, to me, for I believe we are all here for a purpose. Isn't just being here and doing all the good that needs to be done the best reason to be here ? Do we really need a reward for the good we do and isn't it possible for some to believe this is enough? I do believe that a loving God will see that ALL his children has a purpose here on earth and that makes it non morbid. The reason I have lived, is to see that my family was taken care of, that I helped others when there was a need and to live life to the best of my ability. No one knows that there is an afterlife but to live this life to the fullest is what we all might try and then know we done our best for this world and the people in it.


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