# Horse Sedation with an Oral Gel (AAEP 2010)



## Reble (Mar 29, 2011)

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=17982


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## txminipinto (Mar 29, 2011)

Yes this is an outstanding product for horses! While I don't come across many horses that are so needle phobic I can't get a needle in them, there are those that will hurt you if you try. This is an awesome new method for vets and horse owners to sedate these hard to poke horses!


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## Riverrose28 (Mar 29, 2011)

My vet sold me a tube of this 6 weeks ago to sedate a colt that needed his feet trimmed and was being a real pain. He doesn't mind being in the cross ties and loves to be brushed and fooled with, just was giving me a fit over his trimming. He was gelded two weeks ago, hope his temperment improves, but this stuff is great, just put it under the tongue, wait twenty minutes and do what you need to do. Well worth the money. Saved me & the farrier a lot of sore muscles.


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## Nathan Luszcz (Mar 29, 2011)

I saw this for the first time this year at the TB farm I foal at. My boss says its wonderful!! And a lot cheaper than a bottle of Detomadine, which can run $140 bucks!! Of course, that's a lot more doses than this tube, but the tube is much easier to swallow (so to speak) if you only need it very rarely. Sounds like a home run product


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## ruffian (Mar 29, 2011)

My vet told me about this. Sounds like a great product and I will be having some on hand.


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## valshingle (Mar 29, 2011)

I got my first tube of this product last week and used it to help clip some yearlings. It is a wonderful product and worked beautifully. Remember to use gloves with it or you might be snoozing along with your horse


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## weerunner (Mar 29, 2011)

do you buy it from your vet or what. This sounds like something for two of my clients horses that just hate having their hooves done. DArn near kill me kicking and rearing.


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## valshingle (Mar 29, 2011)

Yes, I got it from my vet. It was about $26.00 USD and contains 3ml. I found that 0.75ml worked well on 31" yearlings and 1.0ml worked on a 32.50" two year old. 1.0ml should dose a 330lb mini. I did try 0.5ml on one of the yearlings and it wasn't enough. The yearlings were pretty much unbroken and 'resistant' to clipping. The two year old had been clipped twice the year before. It took about 25 mins to take effect and lasted long enough to get them body clipped completely (~1 hour).


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## Genie (Mar 29, 2011)

I just read about this product as well and wondered what the dosage would be for miniatures.

THanks for the feedback. Wonder if we can get it here in Ontario, Canada?


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## LindaL (Mar 29, 2011)

Is this product the same as Dormosadan? I bought Dorm in a gel from my vet last August and love it! You DO have to get it under their tongue or it will either not work or take forever to take affect. My vet down here does not carry it, so I bought it from a friend whose vet carries it...lol


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## Nathan Luszcz (Mar 29, 2011)

Yes, Dormosadan is the brand name, detomadine is the drug name. The gel is actually sold under the Dormosadan name.

Like Banamine and flunixin.


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## Sue_C. (Mar 30, 2011)

weerunner said:


> do you buy it from your vet or what. This sounds like something for two of my clients horses that just hate having their hooves done. DArn near kill me kicking and rearing.


I e-mailed my Vet last evening after reading about this product, and his reply was that they (his office) opted to not have this on hand because of the potentially (human)improper usage he had been informed of. He did say, however, that they can easily make basically the same product with Dormosedan (detomidine).


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 30, 2011)

Is this stuff OK to use on males?


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## midnight star stables (Mar 30, 2011)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Is this stuff OK to use on males?


Like husbands??



:OKinteresting

Sound like a nice product to have on hand.



I've only had horses sedated for gelding, but you never know.


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## weebiscuit (Mar 30, 2011)

This stuff has been wonderful! I got it from my vet. All my horses are easy to clip and bathe and do their feet, and then there's my senior stallion. This guy is just fine with farrier, clipping, bathing, EXCEPT for any where within six inches of his ears, and that includes the bridle path, unfortunately, and the upper cheeks, and the ears themselves. He would need to be crosstied, head low, and put into a stanchion, WITH a twitch on him to get his upper bridal path and ears done. He was this way when I bought him, and the seller warned me. She wasn't kidding! Since we didn't show him the ear clipping wasn't critical but I insist on a clean bridal path. It was just torture for him AND me!

Once I tried this stuff, it was amazing! Not only got the bridal path and ears clipped beautifully, but I got his sheath cleaned, too!

As with any drug or med, especially those of a narcotic nature, it's not something I would want to use regularly with any horse, and I personally would not use it on horses a year old or younger, whether they say it's safe or not.

But now I can get this horse's mane clipped without waiting for the vet to come and float his teeth and taking advantage of the Rompin-induced lethargy for a bridal path clip!


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## valshingle (Mar 30, 2011)

Acepromazine (Ace) is what you want to stay away from in stallions.

This product worked fine on yearlings for me, no danger.

I did not get it under the tongue and it still worked well.


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## Genie (Mar 30, 2011)

I was talking to a vet today about the product.

I think she possibly has little experience with Miniature horses.

She said dosage amount would be hard to judge as you didn't want to give too much and that if a stallion he may drop and may not retract?


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## [email protected] (Mar 30, 2011)

Interesting article. I passed it along to a breeder that bought our PiA mare. Horrid to try and trim her back feet, hopefully this will help them.

Thanks for posting it!


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## rabbitsfizz (Mar 31, 2011)

Genie said:


> I was talking to a vet today about the product.
> 
> I think she possibly has little experience with Miniature horses.
> 
> She said dosage amount would be hard to judge as you didn't want to give too much and that if a stallion he may drop and may not retract?


This "prolapse" danger is exactly why I will never, ever use any acepromazine based drug on a male- so, I ask again, is this stuff safe to use on males, has it actually been _tested_ to be safe?

If not then there is an inherent danger that goes way beyond the danger you always get with any sedation.

Myself, I would much rather twitch every time than ever use sedation.


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## Riverrose28 (Mar 31, 2011)

About using this product on male horses, my vet before selling me this product, used a weight tape and fitted the product to his weight. when I admistered it to my colt, he didn't even drop his penis, just got really relaxed kind of like he had one too many beers. He was a little sweaty on his neck, but it so relaxed him that we got his feet trimmed with no fighting. Saved my back and the farrier. The next week he was gelded and hopfully I won't need this product again, but if I need it, I will use it, as all of these years I have fought to train horses to be have and some just don't want to and it must be done. This product is a life saver for us senior citizens, I will use this product for a mare of ours that we show, and even with a twitch will give us a fit for her ears. glory be to this stuff, after fighting with horses for over thirty years, this stuff is a god send.


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## valshingle (Apr 1, 2011)

Rabbit - I am not a vet, but to the best of my knowledge, the only sedative that is contraindicated (meaning do NOT use) in male horses is Acepromazine. This product is Dormosedan, which I have used several times in stallions, with no problems. But as always, check with your vet. Since we have to get it from a vet here in TX (and I assume the entire USA), I recommend asking the vet for dosage and instructions.


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## wildoak (Apr 1, 2011)

I so could have used this today to finish clipping a mare! I actually had a small dose of dormosedan from the vet that I gave orally but evidently it was too small a dose or she is particularly resistant to sedation. Nice mare but deadly with her heels and I don't move as fast as I used to. Will have to ask my vet if she has it on hand.

Jan


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## Nathan Luszcz (Apr 1, 2011)

Yes, Detomadine is safe to use with males. Its an old drug, this is just a new way of administering it.


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## drmatthewtaylor (Apr 1, 2011)

Acepromazine is in a class of drugs called phenothiazines. Dormosedan is in the class of drugs called alpha 2, other drugs in that class are Rompun (xylazine) and Dexdomitor.

Aplha 2's do not have the potential for side effect that phenothiazines do for stallions/geldings.

Alpha 2's can be absorbed by humans through mucus membranes or areas of broken skin. This oral gel has the potential of being a human health risk as now touching the drug is far more likely than when it is in a bottle/syringe and given as a shot.

Dr Taylor


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## rcfarm (Apr 1, 2011)

I used for the first time this week. Had to have a dentist out to extract a tooth. My mare is real lightweight, when comes to sedatives. She also has reactions to most shots. So this worked out great. My cost from vet was 28.00 a tube.

Would use again.


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## Devon (Apr 1, 2011)

Anyone know if this is available in canada?


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## Genie (Apr 1, 2011)

The lady vet here in town said it would only be provided if she came to the farm and saw the horse? (Got to get your farm call $$$$"S)

I am going to the Exeter vet next week for another matter with a pup and will talk to them.

I have been given powdered flunixin to have on hand.


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## MountainMeadows (Apr 1, 2011)

Would this product be safer to use to sedate a mare to ultrasound for pregnancy? I always ask my vet to sedate, just wondering if this product would get to the fetus and cause any harm


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## Nathan Luszcz (Apr 1, 2011)

Safer than what? As far as I know, its as safe as any other sedative.

Sue: I e-mailed my Vet last evening after reading about this product, and his reply was that they (his office) opted to not have this on hand because of the potentially (human)improper usage he had been informed of. He did say, however, that they can easily make basically the same product with Dormosedan (detomidine).

Wait, so THIS product is dangerous, but he can make the same thing himself (same drug and everything) and its perfectly safe? Sounds like he just wants you to buy his product, not a competitor. This makes no sense at all. I'd question that doc then find a new doctor if his answer is the same. That's unacceptable.


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## LaVern (Apr 1, 2011)

You got to be kidding me. Drugging horses for things like clipping and bathing. I'm flabbergasted. Drugs instead of patience???????


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## Leeana (Apr 1, 2011)

This is exciting...I will have to try it this Spring....


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## ohmt (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm with you Lavern-I had no idea so many people used it for clipping, trimming, and bathing.


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## LaVern (Apr 1, 2011)

I just don't get it. How could anyone be excited to give a horse a drug??????????


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## Leeana (Apr 1, 2011)

I know my ponies and their temperment, its in some way part of the reason why I selected them and while I "wish" they were total deadheads and looked at you all lovey dovey googly eyed - they don't. Every year There is atleast one-two ponies that need to be sedated for clipping, and I guess im just excited to try something new as these horses are also the ones that are a nightmare to give shots too...

So yes - I'm excited to try this and see if it works.

I have patience, more then most people I would imagine, however....Im not going to spend all day trying to clip 1 ear or 1 leg.

..and I do not sedate them because I want to, I do it because I need to. I can think of other ways to use that $10 bucks...


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## Nathan Luszcz (Apr 1, 2011)

Its exciting to have a better option in your pocket




Its expensive having a vet come out and give a shot, if you aren't comfortable with it. This is a very easy, potent, and user-friendly method of sedation.


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## LaVern (Apr 1, 2011)

Well to each his own, but there seems to be something wrong with this picture, here we are raising the family small equine and we have to resort to dope to handle them. I have had two that were nuts in the head and I never was able to bring them around with patience. Some one would have gotten hurt if I had sold them so I had Doc put them to sleep. I had lots of offers on the one, but Doc would not give me health on her either because he agreed that someone kid would get hurt for sure. I guess everyone looks at it differently. I figure if a horse isn't well behaved enough to let you clip it it should not be in a show arena. Maybe I'm way off here.


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## Margo_C-T (Apr 1, 2011)

After 60 continuous years with horses, I'm with you, LaVern, and don't think you are at ALL 'way-off'in your feelings on this.

Margo


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## valshingle (Apr 1, 2011)

rcfarm - just FYI, my vet does NOT recommend this product for teeth (or any other mouth) work because it can be absorbed through your and the vet's skin.

Fortunately, my vets trust me not to abuse/use this product on myself (where do druggies come up with these ideas?). I took great lengths to make sure that both hands were gloved when I administered it. I really didn't want to keel over while clipping





While I do use patience whenever possible, I'd rather sedate the horse gently (usually a youngster) than take hours to try to get the job done the first time. If I need to sedate the first one or two times they are clipped, I find that by the second or third time they are clipped, sedation is no longer necessary.

I can assure you that any horse of mine that gets shown a bit will eventually stand on their own, patiently, while we are clipping them.


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## donnalee (Apr 4, 2011)

Wow, I sure would have loved a product like that when I had horses. My beloved Arab mare, who hated her ears clipped might have benefited from it. She died at age 36, and NEVER let me clip without a big fuss. I had a little mini stallion who didn't like his legs clipped, LOL.


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## Nathan Luszcz (Apr 4, 2011)

Were a bunch of posts deleted here?


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## Marsha Cassada (Apr 4, 2011)

I am going to ask my vet about it. We are in porcupine country and all my horses have had ONE encounter. My youngest horse is due for his. They usually get 10-15 quills in their noses, sometimes a few in a hind foot. A product like this would be good to have on hand for situations like that.


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## uwharrie (Apr 4, 2011)

Talked with my vet about this. Because we are in a rural area I would have to purchase 1/2 of her minimum order ( what she has to order) which would be five tubes. At $25 a tube it is much more costly than just using the injectable orally. ($105 a bottle)


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## Eagle (Apr 5, 2011)

Please understand that I am not laughing at any of you but i do find all this funny. I do occasionally dope some of my show jumpers to clip but purely because they are about 1.90cm at the withers and when they have a tantrum they can be a danger to themselves and to ME but to tranquillize a mini to clip or bathe is totally unnecessary surely. I have one mare that is totally wild in all aspects and even after 5 years with me she hasn't chilled out much. To clip her in spring hubby holds her against the wall and I clip away, to do her head and eyes he just squeezes her nose. I would not feel comfy doing it any other way.

Saying that each to their own and live and let live


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## Nathan Luszcz (Apr 5, 2011)

I used to make absolute statements like that... I learned that isn't always possible to assert


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## happy appy (Apr 5, 2011)

Eagle said:


> Please understand that I am not laughing at any of you but i do find all this funny. I do occasionally dope some of my show jumpers to clip but purely because they are about 1.90cm at the withers and when they have a tantrum they can be a danger to themselves and to ME but to tranquillize a mini to clip or bathe is totally unnecessary surely. I have one mare that is totally wild in all aspects and even after 5 years with me she hasn't chilled out much. To clip her in spring hubby holds her against the wall and I clip away, to do her head and eyes he just squeezes her nose. I would not feel comfy doing it any other way.
> 
> Saying that each to their own and live and let live



I can't see how traumatizing the horse like that is proving a point about not sedating them.


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## Eagle (Apr 5, 2011)

I don't see how holding and clipping for 30-40 minutes is traumatizing for a horse of 6 years old but whatever. As I said each to there own. I would prefer not to risk any possible side effects in a horse so small also because where I live there are no vets specialised in minis.

This is what I read about the risks. Sorry if it is a bit long





Do not use DORMOSEDAN GEL in horses with cardiovascular disease, respiratory disorders, liver or kidney diseases, or in conditions of shock, severe debilitation, or stress due to extreme heat, cold, fatigue, or high altitude. Protect treated horses from temperature extremes. As with all alpha2-adrenoceptor agonists, the potential for isolated cases of hypersensitivity, including paradoxical response (excitation), exists.

*DORMOSEDAN GEL has not been evaluated in ponies, miniature horses, or horses younger than one year of age.*

DORMOSEDAN GEL has not been evaluated for use in breeding, pregnant, or lactating horses.

*Adverse Reactions*

_Clinical field study:_

In a US field study of 270 horses sedated to facilitate completion of various veterinary and husbandry procedures, the following adverse reactions were reported in 202 horses treated with DORMOSEDAN GEL and 68 horses treated with placebo:

Table 2: Adverse reactions (number of horses) during the clinical field study

*Clinical Sign*

*DORMOSEDAN GEL*

N = 202

*Placebo*

N =68

Sweating

20

0

Penile relaxation

12

0

Bradycardia (≤ 20 bpm)

11

0

Second degree AV block

9

0

Frequent urination

9

0

Piloerection

4

0

Marked ataxia

3

0

Facial/oral edema

3

0

Hypersalivation

2

0

Nasal discharge

2

0

Flatulence

1

0

Muscle tremors

1

1

Epiphora

1

0

Pale mucous membranes

1

0

Swollen sheath

1

0

In a laboratory study, transient erythema of the mucous membranes was seen in 2 (of 8) horses that received the recommended dose of detomidine gel.

Mild ataxia (horse stable but swaying slightly) was observed in 54% of DORMOSEDAN GEL-treated horses and in 4% of the placebo-treated horses at 40 minutes post treatment administration. Moderate ataxia was observed in 25% of DORMOSEDAN GEL-treated horses (0% placebo) at 40 minutes post treatment. Moderate to marked ataxia continued to 90 minutes for 5% and to 120 minutes for 4% of DORMOSEDAN GEL-treated horses.


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## wildoak (Apr 5, 2011)

> I used to make absolute statements like that... I learned that isn't always possible to assert


Have heard all my life, never say never.....





Sedation is not my first choice, but it is on occasion, the safest and most expedient way for all involved.



> While I do use patience whenever possible, I'd rather sedate the horse gently (usually a youngster) than take hours to try to get the job done the first time. If I need to sedate the first one or two times they are clipped, I find that by the second or third time they are clipped, sedation is no longer necessary


Absolutely. I have a 3 yr old now who is not an agressive mare and is very friendly, but for whatever reason she is terrified of things touching her hind legs and can be deadly with her heels as a result. Clipping her is obviously a test of patience and safety lol. I've done lots of desensitizing work with her and will continue, but in the interim there are times she has to be clipped, and if a little dormosedan helps get it done safely I'd rather have that option instead of forcing a battle she will never forget.

Jan


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## valshingle (Apr 5, 2011)

As has been said, to each his own.

I'd also like to point out that sedation is also used to protect the horse from itself. Some horses in a panic will hurt themselves. Young miniatures have been known to rear up and go over very quickly.

And some of us don't have a strong man to hold a horse against the wall.

And some of us did spend years as a groom on the hunter/jumper circuit. Some (albeit very few) of those had to be sedated to even clip their legs. I know because one gave me a bloody nose, right in front of the vet, even after it had been sedated.

I'm not advocating that every horse be sedated in every situation, just that this product is a wonderful new tool that I have had a great experience with in miniatures.


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## Sue_C. (Apr 5, 2011)

> I have one mare that is totally wild in all aspects and even after 5 years with me she hasn't chilled out much. To clip her in spring hubby holds her against the wall and I clip away, to do her head and eyes he just squeezes her nose. I would not feel comfy doing it any other way.


I would think after all these years of owning her, that someone knowledgeable of horses would of been able to take time to reassure her, and work with her to get over this. Surely you should at least WANT her to trust you?? Yes, an hour of traumatization every six months/year or so IS going to make that difference, but because she is "just" a mini, you feel it is okay?

I haven't ever had to sedate a horse yet to work with it...large or small, but have learned in my lifetime of dealing with horses that one should never---say---never, and should always keep an open mind.

And, speaking of getting hurt with a mini? I recall years ago reading here...and seeing the pictures, of a woman who had a mini FOAL strike out at her while being clipped...and that front hoof went THROUGH her face under her bottom lip, taking out several of her front teeth as well. A good lesson to ALL not let the size of these guys fool you enough to MAKE a fool out of you.


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## stormy (Apr 5, 2011)

I just have to comment, having clipped full size horses, arabs and hunters, seemed silly to tranquilize minis at first to me too but I tell you what, trimming the tummy and legs of a 28" stallion who doesn't want to be clipped is no laughing matter, those guys can turn inside out in mid-air and being all hunched over or down on one knee doesn't make it very easy to keep a hoof out of your ear! Usually with light sedation the first one or two times clipped, makes life a whole lot easier and though they may not break bones, it does save a lot of bruises (and a few cuss words!!



)


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## Eagle (Apr 5, 2011)

stormy said:


> I just have to comment, having clipped full size horses, arabs and hunters, seemed silly to tranquilize minis at first to me too but I tell you what, trimming the tummy and legs of a 28" stallion who doesn't want to be clipped is no laughing matter, those guys can turn inside out in mid-air and being all hunched over or down on one knee doesn't make it very easy to keep a hoof out of your ear! Usually with light sedation the first one or two times clipped, makes life a whole lot easier and though they may not break bones, it does save a lot of bruises (and a few cuss words!!
> 
> 
> 
> )


Very nicely put Stormy, with an explanation like that it makes one think


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## txminipinto (Apr 5, 2011)

Just coming back to this topic to see all the hoopla over sedating horses for clipping, etc.

As a trainer and a Registered Veterinary Technician, let me share with you my experiences in sedating horses. As others have stated, sedation in this manner is for everyone's benefit when you have a fractious animal that does not want to partake in the activity. Is it better to work slowly (or not if you don't have the time but it needs to be done) with a horse and cause great anxiety over clippers or feet trimming? Or is it better to give the horse a sedative to calm its anxiety, to make it more willing, and to make the activity a more positive experience instead of wrestling the horse against the wall? I prefer to sedate horses who are anxious.

Case in point:

show shetland that was born and raised on our farm. Was imprinted and handled. Clipped at a very young age and HATED IT. Squeeled like a pig and pretty sure levitated so he could kick me with all 4 feet at once. 1st clip, we didn't sedate. 2nd clip we did. 3rd clip we did 4th clip we did. Yearling now....only sedated to do his head.....2 year old...only sedated to do his ears.....3 year old now..a well grasped twitch on his nose for his ears ONLY. He no longer needs to be sedated or twitched for anything other than ears because over time his anxiety over the clippers lessened with each positive experience. Sedation does not inhibit the learning process, but it does make it safer for everyone.

This isn't my only experience with clipping and sedation. Many horses that I have to sedate on the first clip to finish never have to be sedated by the end of the show season. I suppose if I had one horse and all the time in the world I could do it without sedation, but I don't know many people with that kind of time.


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## Eagle (Apr 6, 2011)

Today I have to clip The crazy mare (lovely mare but hates the clippers) as I think I am an open minded person who wants to learn I have bought this product and I will try it out later. I will let you all know how it goes.

Wish me luck.

P.S hubby is abroad for work so I am alone


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## wantminimore (Apr 6, 2011)

I haven't read all of the replies yet but I wanted to share my experience with it. I have 2 boarders here, a mother and son. The son is 3 yrs old and quite a bit smaller then his dam, they needed their teeth floated so the boarders vet was coming out to do it. When she went to sedate the dam she reared up and was striking out with both feet so the vet decided to give her the oral sedation and the little gelding got the shot. It took about an hour for it to kick in on the dam but it just about worked instantly on the gelding. When it did finally work it did what it was supposed to it just took a while.


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## Sue_C. (Apr 6, 2011)

Nathan Luszcz said:


> Safer than what? As far as I know, its as safe as any other sedative.
> 
> Sue: I e-mailed my Vet last evening after reading about this product, and his reply was that they (his office) opted to not have this on hand because of the potentially (human)improper usage he had been informed of. He did say, however, that they can easily make basically the same product with Dormosedan (detomidine).
> 
> Wait, so THIS product is dangerous, but he can make the same thing himself (same drug and everything) and its perfectly safe? Sounds like he just wants you to buy his product, not a competitor. This makes no sense at all. I'd question that doc then find a new doctor if his answer is the same. That's unacceptable.


No, he just doesn't want someone coming in and taking a tube home without his knowledge...he is perfectly willing to make it FOR me, and those others he trusts to be careful. I don't mind his being over-cautious...I KNOW some of the folks that would definitely misuse this product in a careless manner...then be all set to lay the blame at the Vet's feet should something go wrong.


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## Nathan Luszcz (Apr 7, 2011)

*shrugs* I much rather a professionally manufactured and tested product than a homemade thing someone whipped up in their office. If he can't keep his office secured for this drug, how does he manage torbogesic, ketamine, and liquid detomadine? Torb and ketamine are both controlled substances, VERY prone to abuse and have an astronomical street value. If he can't keep tubes of paste safe, how can he keep deadly and highly abused drugs safe?


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## uwharrie (Apr 7, 2011)

I guess I am lucky as my vet trust me to do right by drugs that are left in my care. We discussed the gel but due to the fact she is a small rural practice and she would have to purchase a box 10 tubes, I would have to buy 5 of them at $25 each to make it worth her ordering. We decided to stick with the liquid which I could purchase a small bottle for $105. ( seems the liquid has a longer shelf life as well) Chances are I will never use the whole bottle before it expires in two years, but it is nice to know I have it if I need it.

Human abuse of the drugs never came up in the conversation.


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## drmatthewtaylor (Apr 7, 2011)

Nathan Luszcz said:


> *shrugs* I much rather a professionally manufactured and tested product than a homemade thing someone whipped up in their office. If he can't keep his office secured for this drug, how does he manage torbogesic, ketamine, and liquid detomadine? Torb and ketamine are both controlled substances, VERY prone to abuse and have an astronomical street value. If he can't keep tubes of paste safe, how can he keep deadly and highly abused drugs safe?


Your answer is here..

We discussed the gel but due to the fact she is a small rural practice and she would have to purchase a box 10 tubes, I would have to buy 5 of them at $25 each to make it worth her ordering. We decided to stick with the liquid which I could purchase a small bottle for $105. ( seems the liquid has a longer shelf life as well) Chances are I will never use the whole bottle before it expires in two years, but it is nice to know I have it if I need it.

Money is never an easy thing to talk about and frequently Vets (myself included) may use another less powerful argument to explain our actions. In today's world drug manufacturers actually advertise to the general public before a new drug/preparation is brought to our attention or even available in the drug pipeline to create a demand. If your local Vet gets many requests for a drug then he/she will feel compelled to purchase it for their Clinic. And do realize Vets must buy the drug from the drug company, not the owner. We are the ones at risk of it going out of date, being damaged, or just never getting sold.

Pfizer could have added an oral dosage to the injectable preparation insert, but they chose not to. Why? Now they can sell 2 forms of the same drug. A Vet would have to carry the same number of injectable bottles as they did before and now carry another box of oral gel. Will the Vet make more money? No. Because you won't likely have more horses to sedate, but will be carrying more inventory. So the Vet will lose money.

I would encourage any animal owner to consider the business of Vet Medicine any time they fell like they were overcharged for a drug/service. Many drugs/services as provided at a loss, thus the profitable drugs/services must not only pay for themselves, but also the losses.

Dr Taylor


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## Reble (Apr 7, 2011)

My vet said they would look into to getting this for me, if possible.

They want to know what it is called?

Do I just tell them gel with Detomidine? or what ?

thanks


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## Nathan Luszcz (Apr 7, 2011)

Sue's vet didn't give that argument, they gave the argument of not being able to secure drugs in their office. I buy two doses of Arvac every year. It comes in a 10 dose vial, and is sometimes VERY difficult to get (and incredibly expensive, even for vets). If my vet doesn't need 10 doses, which they don't ever need, they just buy from someone in the area who DOES use that much. I've worked in vet clinics for years, I understand how they work. I also understand that I would never trust a doctor who used the excuse being discussed with me.


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## txminipinto (Apr 7, 2011)

Sue's vet is most likely using Dr. Taylor's excuse of not wanting to buy the product for one client and have it sit on the shelves (which I doubt it will once more horse owners hear about it). The excuse is poor at best but as a RVT with 13 years experience in private practice and academia, it's one I hear a lot.

Detomidine would be a poor choice for human use. I can not imagine it would be a fun drug to abuse when there are much better choices (not that I know from personal experience) that already have their street value. Plain and simple, he doesn't want to invest in another product when he has the exact same product in injectable. There is also the safety and liability of the product as it is absorbed through the skin. So one would have to trust that their clients could follow directions and use gloves to administer.

either way, its a great product that I am glad is on the market and I personally can't wait to try it. Its perfect for the client that has a phobic horse that can't have the vet come out for every farrier visit or ear trimming session. Vets have more important things to do and not enough time in the day.


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