# Learned a Lesson



## lucky seven (Oct 22, 2013)

I bought a used bridle for my mini to start his driving training. I added the bit and seven accepted it easily but the bridle was way too small for his head. So I put every part on the last buckle and tried again. This time Seven put his head in the corner and said "no way are you putting that thing in my mounth" It still was too small for his head so I returned it to the store. If I decide to continue with him I'm going to measure his head and buy new and not waste time and money on generic "mini" equipment. The bad part is he thinks he won again. I've been working with him by leading him around the yard. He's okay for awhile but starts jumping around and pulling on the lead to get loose. I still think I may sell him and look for another mini, I like him but don't think we are a good fit. After 3 years we should be farther along with our partnership then we are.


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## MyMiniGal (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm sorry, that you feel Seven and you, aren't a good fit. May I ask what is happening, when he starts pulling on the halter, to get away? I just recently had my mini balk at walking a lot, and it took taking a crop, and firmly tapping her hip. What a difference that has made, for her trying it anymore. I don't feel I am experienced enough to help you, but I know many here are, so may be if you describe what is happening, some of them, can chime in here and may be see if there is somethings to try. I know, that my mini, being a little over two, she still tests, at time and I expect her to continue for many years. I work with preschool aged children, so I'm use to it. LOL


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## lucky seven (Oct 22, 2013)

My Seven is 6 yo now. Purchased him as a 3 yo from someone who showed A minis. He is a B size, closer to a pony size. I have a stb that acts up before Seven does even when they can see each other. Seven is pretty good until the other horse acts up, they are kept in separate pens but are buddies that can see each other at all times. If the stb starts bucking and racing around, then Seven starts in. For my safety I put him in his paddock so he is getting the wrong message. He also acts up because I want him to listen to me instead of putting his head down and grazing. He is very strong willed and pushy. When I walk him in his paddock, he walks behind me and I feel like I'm pulling him along. Outside, he walks beside me and what I was working on was his walk and whoa, to just listen to me. After a few minutes the other horse starts acting up and he starts rearing and pulling back on the lead. In the beginning he had a horrible food agression problem but that has been taken care of. Now I feel very comfortable around him when he's eating, I don't have to watch my back when he's behind me. That's been a very big plus for me.


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## MyMiniGal (Oct 22, 2013)

I hope someone, with more experience, will chime in here and give you some suggestions. It does seem like he is reacting to the other horse, but he needs to know, not to do that, no matter what.


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## Marsha Cassada (Oct 22, 2013)

I feel for you. My first one has nicknames like "rhinoceros" and "crocodile". He is hard headed and resistant. These horses are a constant challenge. If you don't feel like you want to go through this for years and years, do find a different horse. Life is short, and if you are not a good match, cut your losses and move on. Lately I got a retired brood mare and I can't believe what a joy she is! I did not know that horses could be so easy! Where has she been all my life?

I still have my first horse, he is in my avatar. He is still a challenge and his nicknames haven't changed. But I would not have another horse like he is. I've had him for nearly 12 years. He is 16 now.

One thing that you might try is lessons with a trainer. This helped me immensely in dealing with my difficult horse.


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## Sandi J. (Oct 23, 2013)

It sounds like the horse knows what he/she can get away with...some horses can be a little pushy but once you arm yourself with a little training knowledge you'll have a really nice horse...it would be time & money well spent (not only for this horse, but also for the next horse you get) to work with a trainer or if that isn't possible, watch alot of groundwork videos on you tube or TV...I can tell you from my own experience that I tolerated way too much from my horse and he took advantage of that...once I tightened up my tolerance, he is now an amazing horse...keep us posted on how he progresses...he may be feeding off the other horse but it doesn't matter...there are no excuses that should allow a horse to act out, it is just too dangerous, even if they are minis...

Good luck....

Sandi


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## MyMiniGal (Oct 23, 2013)

I have to say, if my horse was like that, I would be thinking the same thing and probably would of already found them another home. You've done great, trying with him for so many years. I went through a difficult time with my mini, right at first, even with clicking with her, at her previous owners. There were a few weeks there, I was thinking, that this wasn't going to work. When I just had to stay, with my mom, for a couple weeks due to she fell and has a concussion. I was able to see my mini once a day, just to feed her, during the week, then my husband would take over the evening feeding on the weekends. I knew she needed some exercise, so I asked him to take her for a walk, one day. So he did. That next day, she turned her butt on him, in the paddock and kicked out. Didn't hit him, but she turned very protective of her feed dish, with him. The only thing, I can think of, is I had let my husband be in charge of her and she didn't want someone else but me, doing that, and that was a "no, no" with me. So, I ran and got him a crop. Got myself one too, just incase. I told him, if she even turns her butt to him, to pop her a good one. So the next day, she tried it again, but he was prepared. Popped her. He said she had a shocked look on her face, but still tried it one more time. Well, after about 3 days of that, I guess, as I wasn't there. She quit doing it. He now can walk up to her, while she is eating her feed and she will turn her butt away. Now, with me, she has never done that. But, then I'm the one that usually works with her. So, now, when both my husband and I go and see her, she is the sweetest thing, and I make sure that I hand the lead over to my husband and work with him and her together too. The only thing I have ever had to use a crop for, on her for, is she has balked at walking, with me, and I give her the command to walk, if she doesn't go she gets a firm tap, on her hind end, if she still doesn't go, the next one is even firmer. But, she is still two, and testing me, so I expect it, from time to time. I guess my point is, even when you click and have a sweet mini, they will still act up. At least mine does.


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## Minimor (Oct 23, 2013)

> The bad part is he thinks he won again.


 You know, he probably doesn't. It is a misconception that you, the handler, have to "win" every time. In some things, yes, it is better if you can finish on a good note--but not necessarily in the way some people believe. If you're training at something specific--say you are trying to teach the horse to sidepass, and he's not getting it, you really do not need to keep trying until you get a sidepass. That is just way too frustrating. Give it up for that day, and just finish up with something else--for example, back him up a few steps. He does that, you praise him and put him away. You've ended on a good note. The sidepassing can wait for another day. You have "won".
Now--in regards to trying on a bridle--at the last he put his head in the corner so you couldn't put the bridle on; if the bridle was still too small anyway then it wasn't going on him regardless--and no one can blame him for trying to have a too-small bridle forced onto his head. This really should have no effect at all on your next attempt to work with him. Honestly, I have brought a horse out to put some piece of tack on, only to have difficulty with it (think trying to put a killer blanket over a horse's head!) --maybe in terms of the blanket I didn't have time to mess with it at that point, so I put the horse away; next time I bring the horse out he really did not associate the last time with getting out of having the blanket on. I would expect to take the horse out, spend a bit of time getting him used to the blanket and then would get it on him (been there done that)--life was no more difficult because he didn't get it put on the first time. If I tried a too-small bridle on and he resisted having it put back on after adjustment & I determined it was still too small--I wouldn't even THINK of him seeing it as a win for him--I would expect it to have no effect at all on "next time". I think that you are psyching yourself out with this horse.

It does sound like Seven is getting the best of you in terms of leading him in the yard. It's not unusual for the horse you're working with to act up if his buddy across the fence starts ripping around. However, the horse you're leading should learn to behave when you are working with him--this behavior needs to be dealt with very firmly right from the start. If he acts up and intimidates you, so you put him back in the paddock every time he does it, yes, he has definitely "won" in that case. Do you have anyone who can help you with him? Someone who can give you some pointers on what to do when he starts rearing and pulling back? (By the way--is he gelded??)

When you walk him in his paddock and he tries to lag behind, I suggest carrying a whip so you can tap him on his back end and make him walk up beside you. If he pulls back or moves sideways away from the whip, lead him along the fence, with him between you and the fence. That way when you reach back and tap him on his rear end, he cannot swing away from the whip. Even teach him to trot in hand this way (if you don't already work him at the trot)--teaching him to walk and trot beside you, and then to WHOA from walk and trot will give you better control overall, especially when you make him do it your way, not allow him to lag along as he pleases.

Before you take him out in the yard to lead him make sure that he is well exercised. Longe him (if you don't longe him, that is a good thing to teach him--it's a good way to exercise plus a horse can learn a lot on the longe line) or just let him loose and make him move around the paddock. If you do have him out in the yard & he gets acting up too much so that you feel you have to put him back in the paddock, don't just turn him out and leave him--turn him out & then make him work. Make him do some trotting and cantering. When he settles down, take him out and lead him around the yard again. He will be worked down some so might be less inclined to play up. It would be good though if you could get someone to come and give you some pointers on how to handle it when he plays up.

I've never had to resort to using a chain on a Mini, not even on my bigger Bs. I don't even use chains on the taller Shetlands. I've had a couple that were very pushy and difficult to lead out, but I kept working with them--taught them to WHOA. Sometimes I carried a whip & positioned it in front to sort of remind the horse that he was to pay attention and not push ahead. In one case with a young stallion I just put my left hand in front of his face as I said whoa, it was a visual block that got his attention and he would quit trying to push ahead--he'd then listen and stop. After a few lessons I didn't need "the hand" any more and he was leading nicely. Rearing--and it hasn't been a big thing with any of mine--I give the horse a good shank and when his feet come down I back him up a couple of steps and then continue on as we were. I find no value in running the horse backward (as some people do) but a couple steps back makes the horse focus on me and he generally pays attention after that.

Grazing....I do let horses graze while I have them on halter, but I tell them they can put theirs heads down to eat, I don't just allow them to do it. If they try to graze when I'm working them I'll give them a snap on the shank (don't just pull, the horse braces on it and grazes anyway) or even tap them up with a whip if I'm carrying one (and I often don't have a whip) and say NO. I don't expect them to work hungry, but if they aren't out on pasture they often think they are STARVING for green grass, even if they are stuffed with hay. So, I work them and then let them graze for a few minutes. They learn.


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 23, 2013)

What MM said!!!

Spot on, and I would give it up now, if it were me, and let that horse go somewhere he is going to be gently but firmly put in his place. No fun in being bullied and bested by your horse, no fun at all- and, you know what? It is not really fun for the horse either because there is so much he could be doing that he is not doing. I would not be even considering trying to harness train this hose, btw- you are going to get hurt.


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## lucky seven (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks for all the input, the only thing that has gone right with him is that he is fine at feeding times now. He used to charge me with ears pinned if I walked near his hay, now I can pull his flakes apart and move them to other spots in his pen. He did bite my hubby once hard in the back, hard enough to remove skin so I would say we have come along way in that regard. He is my first and only mini and I plan on staying with the little ones. With winter coming on, I will look but won't put him up for sale until spring. I've seen some horror stories on starving horses in this area and don't want to worry about how he is being treated. There is a local rescue so I would list him on her site. No craigs list for me. Would you suggest Chance horse rescue or Camelot as other places I can look? I did have a horse friend tell me that I shouldn't have a riding horse at home because I'm too nice, horses like me but don't respect me because I like to be easy going. I will still keep watching this site for handling information, I've learned alot.


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## Marsha Cassada (Oct 23, 2013)

Why not list him on the sale board here? Don't assume that because he isn't working for you that he won't be a good horse for someone else. We all have different temperaments and need different kinds of horse partners. One of the hardest lessons to learn is what horse will work with each of us. Some horse folk really enjoy a training challenge. Some of us do not. I had a hard time letting go of horses that did not work for me; it seemed as though I was betraying them. But the horses that left me all went on to better, and more appropriate, homes than I could offer them!


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## shorthorsemom (Oct 24, 2013)

I had one mini in my past I got to a "stopping point" in our training. I recognized that he was getting the best of me and I was unsure where to go. My friend is a trainer with lots more experience than me and she came out to work with him. She got us over the "hump" and got him going forward and being more responsive to me. She was kind but so quick to correct and then praise when he got it right, that he was putty in her hands and happy as a lark and responsive and learning after about an hour. I could have continued to struggle, but the longer I struggled, the more I was confusing him and I simply was not strong enough to win with him either. With her guidence we were able to train him to the point where anybody could handle him easily, I regretted not calling her sooner. Sometimes it is really nice to have a second opinion and have somebody with more experience and a different method to see what he does being handled by somebody else. Even if it is only to tell the other person he is sold or given to, what he does and does not do.

Like a marriage, there are some horses that are your heart partners and some that you need to divorce, but might be a heart partner for somebody else.

I had a pony once that was bucky and unsafe for my kids, would kick in a flash. I gave him away with full explanation to someone who had extensive riding experience that was adult but small enough to ride this pony. I took a total loss on what I paid for him, but could not honestly sell him to somebody else knowing what I did. This person rode and trained the dickens out of him. Discovered he was a handy little jumper that would go over the moon for them. They loved him, put a ribbon on his tail and everybody stayed away from his hind end. They were thrilled by him, for me he was a nightmare for my kids who were not horse savy, for them he was an 11 hand gorgeous pinto pony that was a nifty little jumper and they loved him so much and all the 4 H kids wanted a turn riding him at the next show. Just all about finding a love match I guess.


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## shorthorsemom (Oct 24, 2013)

PS, I am a total wimp, didn't use to be. I used to handle 17 hand racehorses at the track. Now that I am older and don't bounce back so easily and many wrecks later, I am a wimp and I know it. Thats why my trainer friend came to help me get over the wimp point with my mini and help me win some respect.

That said, I do currently have one little "stinker" mini now that when he first came was food aggressive, made nasty faces and would bite the fence and I was dodging teeth all the time, especially when harnessing and when petting I couldn't even get near his mouth and he would take a chomp at me. He would bite the shaft of the cart when I put to because he was standing on food (grass) and he wanted to eat. He just plain had the face of a grouch and we considerred calling him Oscar.

I gave him a chance, and after a few months he became sweet, he totally loves me, he does not bite and is easy for me to handle. He LOVES me. He even looks cuter now that he isn't trying to attack everything, he is so content and happy. I even changed his name because he was not the same horse that came to me. He was not a horse I could win by being tough. He had tough handling in his past. They were not aggressive by any means and did not hurt him and they gave him a job to do but he really bloomed here with me. My wimpy personality worked for him and he loves me for it. If somebody would have told me he would give me kisses and I would allow it, I would have laughed. At first I expected to lose my nose if I kissed him on the face, now he gives me sweet kisses. go figure. Most folks would have thought his personality needed a tough hand. He was the opposite. You just never know. Always good to not assume how a horse acts for you is the same they will act for somebody else. Also important to not beat yourself up over it when personalities clash and you have a horse that is not what you are looking for in a horse. take care. glad you came to the forum to chat


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## Performancemini (Oct 25, 2013)

You have received lots of super advice here. Sometimes you do have to realize that things aren't the best match and maybe are not meant to be. We have passed a few horses on to new homes because they just did not end up fitting in well. It's nothing to feel bad about. As for being 'too nice', well, I am a 'too nice' also. But I have learned over the years now that learning to be firm (firm, correct handling-NOT severe handling or punishment) is necessary for the well being of both humans and the horse; for safety. Find a very good mentor to help you learn more about handling. And take your time finding your new horse.


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## BiologyBrain (Nov 3, 2013)

If I were you and concerned about him 'winning' instead of just turning him loose in his paddock, I'd tie him to a solid tree, post, rail, etc.

I don't know if this is just a 'cowboy' trick, but something that has worked wonders for me on big horses is to tie them. The one time I had 'lessons' on riding and training was in college. I had a cowboy as my trainer teacher. He was a firm advocate of tying horses before and/or after working with them. We had a hitching rail outside the barn. One of the first lessons our 2-year old barely halter broke horses had to learn was to stand tied. If we had a bad session in the round pen (the actual first lesson I think) our instructor would have us tie them to the hitching rail while we cleaned stalls or tack or something. We didn't tie tightly, but not loose enough for them to get their head to the ground. When we introduced saddles and bridles, they stood at the rail in saddles and bridles (with a halter under or over used for actual tying). It gave them time to think and even get bored. When we'd come out of the barn our horses we thrilled to see us because they knew they'd get to move around. But if they started misbehaving, back to the rail they'd go - especially if their behavior was dangerous for us or them. The hitching rail was also great for us to learn to not get emotional or angry at them. Sometimes our instructor would tell us to hitch them to the rail if he saw us getting frustrated. It allowed for a cooling off period for both horse and handler.

I'm currently using this for the big Belgian I'm giving refresher driving lessons to. He's much too big for me to think I can really 'make' him do anything - like whoa. So when I go out to work the minis I harness the big first and cross-tie him in his stall. I talk to him and the minis as I work to get them harnessed and such. Then he stays in the barn as I work the minis outside. By the time I'm ready for him, he's so bored he just wants to be with me regardless of whether I'm working him or not. Harnessing him first also let's me do that while my arms aren't tired... Big horse harness is terribly heavy even when not made of leather... And I have very weak arms that no amount of exercising will help (breast cancer ruined my pecs and by association my biceps and triceps).

I had a horse I spent 8 years trying to get along with. I bred her, raised her, and trained her, but still we just didn't suit. She was great as a driving horse, but miserable on the ground or under saddle (QH). She eroded my confidence tremendously (that and I finally got older and understood I wasn't made of rubber). I wish I'd sold her sooner, so make sure this little guy doesn't hurt your confidence (or physically hurt you). If you don't think you suit, there's no shame in trading for a one that does suit. He may be just what someone else wants.

Good luck.


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## lucky seven (Nov 3, 2013)

I did list him on this sale board and had one response but he just wasn't suitable for what she wanted. My boy is a grade and resembles a small quarterhorse in build. She is looking for a floating trot driving prospect for the big shows for her young daughters to drive. Mine would be good for a drill team. I have decided to ask a nearby trainer to help me out with him. I just don't like the idea of giving up on him, I still think we can work out our issues provided I get over my "can't do this" attitude. Thanks for all the support I've gotten here, this is the best site to go to for help.


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## MyMiniGal (Nov 3, 2013)

I sure wish you all the best, with getting help with him. I can tell you love him and I am sure he loves you. I pray a trainer can help you both build the trust and respect you need. I know how you are feeling. I felt unconfident for many months, with Halo. I got my confidence in the summer, and I am doing better, but there are times I will second guess myself with things, but know I am doing the best I can. Good luck and keep us updated.


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