# Everyone Watching



## Reble (Jan 20, 2009)

I am watching the inauguration

Are you? Yes or No....


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jan 20, 2009)

Not yet but I agree it is making history. Who ever thought we would see a 'black' US president in our lifetime. It gives me hope that mankind CAN overcome some of our failings.


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## Marnie (Jan 20, 2009)

YES I am and proud to do so. But I'm sure happy to be here in my comfortable chair, in my house by my computer and not their, packed in like saradines!! I'm really happy that I do get to see it though, tomorrow my computer class starts so glad it's today.


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## Charlene (Jan 20, 2009)

i'm at work and have the live feed from CNN minimized. i am planning to take the phone off the hook and turn my speakers UP when he takes the oath and gives his speech.

i am happy i lived long enough to see this day.


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## Leeana (Jan 20, 2009)

Yes, i will be watching, just tuned in to fox news



. I did not vote for Obama, so he has his work cut out to impress me starting today.


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## hunterridgefarm (Jan 20, 2009)

nope dont care to

i have seen enough of him before he took ofice i dont really want to see the next 4 years with him in there

i will say i am glade to see us making history. i am like this with each and everyone of them i dont think ev1 vote counts any ways

diane


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## flamingstar (Jan 20, 2009)

Yes!!!!!!


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## txminipinto (Jan 20, 2009)

I'm watching online at work. While I didn't vote for him, I'm interested in how this all turns out. I hope I was initially wrong about the man. He has a lot to prove and unprove.


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## Miniv (Jan 20, 2009)

Although we didn't vote for him, we have our TV on to watch......It IS history in the making afterall.


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## Jill (Jan 20, 2009)

No, I'm not watching. I really feel fed up with the media covering the long leadup to this as if it it's a Hollywood event. Hope he does a good job for the sake of the Nation but he surely didn't earn my vote.


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## minie812 (Jan 20, 2009)

...Absolutely


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## Basketmiss (Jan 20, 2009)

Jill said:


> No, I'm not watching. I really feel fed up with the media covering the long leadup to this as if it it's a Hollywood event. Hope he does a good job for the sake of the Nation but he surely didn't earn my vote.



DITTO Jill, you said just what I am feeling...


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## Indian*R*A*I*N*Dance (Jan 20, 2009)

Im in art and were having a party, cookies, chips, soda etc. Our school is requiring the tv to be on in every room for an hour.


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## Irish Hills Farm (Jan 20, 2009)

Jill said:


> No, I'm not watching. I really feel fed up with the media covering the long leadup to this as if it it's a Hollywood event. Hope he does a good job for the sake of the Nation but he surely didn't earn my vote.


My sentiments exactly.


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## joyenes (Jan 20, 2009)

> No, I'm not watching. I really feel fed up with the media covering the long leadup to this as if it it's a Hollywood event. Hope he does a good job for the sake of the Nation but he surely didn't earn my vote.


My feelings exactly.


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## Mark & Sharon Bullington (Jan 20, 2009)

Of course we are watching. This is indeed history in the making. I never though I would see this day. We are proud to have voted for him and sincerely hope he can begin to get this great Country back on the right track. The good Lord knows we need the help. He has a huge task ahead of him - as do we all. We all need to pull together - and put this great Nation back where it belongs - in the lead.

Mark & Sharon Bullington


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## Laura (Jan 20, 2009)

Mark & Sharon Bullington said:


> Of course we are watching. This is indeed history in the making. I never though I would see this day. We are proud to have voted for him and sincerely hope he can begin to get this great Country back on the right track. The good Lord knows we need the help. He has a huge task ahead of him - as do we all. We all need to pull together - and put this great Nation back where it belongs - in the lead.
> Mark & Sharon Bullington


Amen!


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## Ashley (Jan 20, 2009)

I am not, I have way to much homework to do, so here I am at the computer. HOwever Lori is all ears up stairs...........I have a feeling thats where she will be all day.


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## kaykay (Jan 20, 2009)

> Of course we are watching. This is indeed history in the making. I never though I would see this day. We are proud to have voted for him and sincerely hope he can begin to get this great Country back on the right track. The good Lord knows we need the help. He has a huge task ahead of him - as do we all. We all need to pull together - and put this great Nation back where it belongs - in the lead.
> Mark & Sharon Bullington


I couldnt agree more! We need to all come together and support our President no matter who you voted for.

I am so proud that my son Kenny is there deployed by the Army to work the satellite communications room. This will be quite a story that he can tell his kids someday! I cant wait for him to come home and tell me all about it





Kay


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jan 20, 2009)

Jill said:


> I really feel fed up with the media covering the long leadup to this as if it it's a Hollywood event.


Interesting. My husband and I were discussing this morning the amount of money being spent on this event and how many other ways it could be spent instead.

I guess history will tell the story of how this all turns out in the end.


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## Jessica_06 (Jan 20, 2009)

Jill took the words out of my mouth I'm spending the day on the computer and watching movies!lol

ETA: Being a Black president doesn't bother me one bit I'm glad but I just don't feel that he is mature enough to run our great nation, (he didn't even sit to watch Bush's 15 min. Farewell speech!!) that in my opinion is very immature and disrespectful IMO! I hope he can lead our country well for our own sake.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Jan 20, 2009)

Yes YES YES!!!!

I can't wait! And the media following him is not his fault. SO glad he is in there now!!!!! I am very proud and happy!!!!


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## susanne (Jan 20, 2009)

I've been glued to the television since 4am PST this morning -- and that's no mean feat for this nightowl (I had about two hours of sleep).

Nearly two years ago, when the presidential campaign first began, I liked Obama but couldn't entirely get behind him. As I listened over the months, his obvious intelligence, his attitude, his open-mindedness, and later, his ideas for getting our country out of our current he11, won me over. When election time came, I was proud to vote for a man with wisdom and vision and who also just happened to exemplify our country's ability to evolve and fulfill the words of our forefathers.

I have been so proud to watch him this morning.

Of course, the true challenge has only begun. As with any president, we must watch carefully and insist upon real action and accountability rather than letting it rest with campaign promises. We have had brilliant men who failed to succeed as president, and we cannot afford that. I hope and believe that President Obama will live up to the faith that our country has placed upon him.

I also have to say that I am proud of the class former president Bush has shown during this transition. While I was no fan of his administration, he is a good man.

Suffice it to say, I am so proud today to be an American.

Not that I wasn't proud before, but today the depth of my pride is immeasurable, especially when Aretha Franklin sang "My Country 'Tis of Thee," fulfilling Martin Luther King's words:

"This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, 'My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring.' "


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## ClickMini (Jan 20, 2009)

Susanne, I feel exactly the same as you. I watched his speech and it was awesome. I feel a lot of hope! Obama is thought very highly of around the globe, I think he has an amazing chance to move us toward a vision of "one world, working together."



> I am so proud that my son Kenny is there deployed by the Army to work the satellite communications room. This will be quite a story that he can tell his kids someday! I cant wait for him to come home and tell me all about it


Kay, my son is there, too! He is on the bomb squad. I don't know if he is in a place where he could see what was going on, but I hope so. I am so proud of my son, he is helping to make people safe while they celebrate this historic event.


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## Southern_Heart (Jan 20, 2009)

Jill said:


> No, I'm not watching. I really feel fed up with the media covering the long leadup to this as if it it's a Hollywood event. Hope he does a good job for the sake of the Nation but he surely didn't earn my vote.



I agree with Jill. I didn't vote for him. How ever I feel bad that Bush is leaving






Joyce


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## txminipinto (Jan 20, 2009)

Southern_Heart said:


> Jill said:
> 
> 
> > No, I'm not watching. I really feel fed up with the media covering the long leadup to this as if it it's a Hollywood event. Hope he does a good job for the sake of the Nation but he surely didn't earn my vote.
> ...


I'll admit to shedding two tears. One: witnessing the history my parents never thought would happen in THEIR lifetime. Two: Watching the man that made America safer during the worst terrorist attack on human soil in MY lifetime, leave. No matter what mistakes Bush made, we weren't attacked twice on our soil during his time in the White House. And that says something. I will always respect Bush for his actions following 9/11, right or wrong.


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## Erica (Jan 20, 2009)

I usually dont comment on political topics but here I go.......................

I did not vote for obama, but it is history in the making. I really hope the man proves me wrong on my thoughts.

My REALLY BIG PROBLEM NOW is the 10 days of all this. Can anyone even grasp the amount of money it is costing???

I mean from one party to the next, all of the secret service, the gowns, entertainment, food, ect. ect. ect.

Then you hear them talking about what a terrible shape our nation is in???? HELLO? Do we need 10 days of this?

Dont get me wrong, I would feel this way about any president. Another special made Limo, two more sets of china, ........... come on.

I say party all day and night, congraulate each other , then get to work on the nation, and put the rest of that money they are spending toward the XXX Trillion dollars were in the hole !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just my thought......

Linda Killion


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 20, 2009)

Of course.





Erica, the total cost of Obama's inauguration is estimated to exceed $160 million. Bush's inauguration 4 years ago cost somewhere in the neighborhood to $157 million-not adjusted for inflation. A large part of that money is for security, which recession or not, I don't think we should skimp on. (Oh no, here she goes with the links again..) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/International


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 20, 2009)

ClickMini said:


> Susanne, I feel exactly the same as you. I watched his speech and it was awesome. I feel a lot of hope! Obama is thought very highly of around the globe, I think he has an amazing chance to move us toward a vision of "one world, working together."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm proud of both your sons for their service and excited that they get to be there! I hope you'll pass on what they share with you regarding what it was like.





To my great disgust I missed the actual swearing in so will be perusing YouTube and CNN in hopes of a video clip. I KNEW I should have checked the broadcast times last night!!





Leia


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## Jill (Jan 20, 2009)

I do agree with those who feel proud we have a black president. That is an accomplishment for our Nation. But me being me, you know I would have rather it been Michael Steele.

And, yes, the money being spent for this is disgraceful. Just like a big time celebrity production and so much being put into how this will look and be remembered. There's a lot of work to be done, and a lot to protect our Nation from. Time to get to work.

_PS I bet Bush will have his first truly restful night in about 8 years tonight -- and he deserves it_


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## mininik (Jan 20, 2009)

I'm reading about it Online, does that count?


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## Jill (Jan 20, 2009)

mininik said:


> I'm reading about it Online, does that count?


I dunno....... that might be sort of like voting "present"? _(kidding! hope that was good for some laughs.)_


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## mininik (Jan 20, 2009)

Jill said:


> mininik said:
> 
> 
> > I'm reading about it Online, does that count?
> ...


Well, I would have loved to attend in person, but you know what they said about working women...


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 20, 2009)

Inaugurations cost a lot of money. Maybe it could have been better spent elsewhere. In a related note, if you ate dinner last night you should be ashamed, because there are hungry people in this country who had to do without.


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## ClickMini (Jan 20, 2009)

For those who are concerned about the cost of the Inauguration and what it means to taxpayers, it is the responsibility of the Inauguration Committee to raise those funds through private donations. The economic troubles we are experiencing were right at the top of Obama's speech. It was a moving and direct speech. I believe that Obama has very clear objectives as to where he sees the country going. He made no bones about the fact that it will take a collective effort from all of us to turn things around.

It is important to the entire world that we show a peaceful and clear transition of power, which is what the Inauguration is all about. This election is important to many more people than just the Americans. We are just the ones that get to decide who it is going to be. The impact of our decision will be far-reaching.


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## Cathy_H (Jan 20, 2009)

> My REALLY BIG PROBLEM NOW is the 10 days of all this. Can anyone even grasp the amount of money it is costing???I mean from one party to the next, all of the secret service, the gowns, entertainment, food, ect. ect. ect.
> 
> Then you hear them talking about what a terrible shape our nation is in???? HELLO? Do we need 10 days of this


Think about ALL of the hungry children that could feed.. Considering the state of the current economy this is WRONG!......... More of the same.. Yes there will be Change - change in our pockets and big bucks in their bank accounts.. As to the question - yes I watched but I was not inspired.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 20, 2009)

ClickMini:


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## My-Lil-Pony (Jan 20, 2009)

susanne said:


> Suffice it to say, I am so proud today to be an American.Not that I wasn't proud before, but today the depth of my pride is immeasurable, especially when Aretha Franklin sang "My Country 'Tis of Thee," fulfilling Martin Luther King's words:
> 
> "This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, 'My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring.' "


This says it all for me!


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## AppyLover2 (Jan 20, 2009)

I don't know why the amount of money being spent on partying should come as such a surprise, after what they went through during the campaign/election. We already knew they could spend $$$$ - now it remains to be seen exactly what he can do for the country's economy. Hopefully he'll be as great a President as so many people seem to think he will.


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## Pepipony (Jan 20, 2009)

I cant help but wonder how Bush made us safe if an attack happened on his watch? Didnt those 3k people die during his term? I am NOT saying that any President would have stopped the attacks, although I think another may have. What I am saying is how can Bush be acredited for keeping us safe when the largest attack since Pearl happened on his watch?


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## txminipinto (Jan 20, 2009)

Pepipony said:


> I cant help but wonder how Bush made us safe if an attack happened on his watch? Didnt those 3k people die during his term? I am NOT saying that any President would have stopped the attacks, although I think another may have. What I am saying is how can Bush be acredited for keeping us safe when the largest attack since Pearl happened on his watch?


That doesn't even justify a response. You didn't even get the jest of my post.


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## kaykay (Jan 20, 2009)

I thought back when these political posts were getting so bad before the election that everyone promised to support WHOEVER got elected and stand together. This country does not need more division for sure. We need to support our President and move forward


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## Jill (Jan 20, 2009)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> I am a proud American today..


Hopefully, that's one "political" statement or sentiment with which we can all identify. I am always and forever proud to be an American


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## Reble (Jan 20, 2009)

I did this up for anyone that would like to copy and keep to remember this moment.


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## ClickMini (Jan 20, 2009)

WASHINGTON - My fellow citizens,

I stand here today humbled by the task before us, grateful for the trust you have bestowed, mindful of the sacrifices borne by our ancestors. I thank President Bush for his service to our nation, as well as the generosity and cooperation he has shown throughout this transition.

Forty-four Americans have now taken the presidential oath. The words have been spoken during rising tides of prosperity and the still waters of peace. Yet, every so often the oath is taken amidst gathering clouds and raging storms. At these moments, America has carried on not simply because of the skill or vision of those in high office, but because We the People have remained faithful to the ideals of our forbearers, and true to our founding documents.

So it has been. So it must be with this generation of Americans.

That we are in the midst of crisis is now well understood. Our nation is at war, against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred. Our economy is badly weakened, a consequence of greed and irresponsibility on the part of some, but also our collective failure to make hard choices and prepare the nation for a new age. Homes have been lost; jobs shed; businesses shuttered. Our health care is too costly; our schools fail too many; and each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries and threaten our planet.

These are the indicators of crisis, subject to data and statistics. Less measurable but no less profound is a sapping of confidence across our land — a nagging fear that America's decline is inevitable, and that the next generation must lower its sights.

Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this, America — they will be met.

On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord.

On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.

We remain a young nation, but in the words of Scripture, the time has come to set aside childish things. The time has come to reaffirm our enduring spirit; to choose our better history; to carry forward that precious gift, that noble idea, passed on from generation to generation: the God-given promise that all are equal, all are free, and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness.

In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. Our journey has never been one of short-cuts or settling for less. It has not been the path for the faint-hearted — for those who prefer leisure over work, or seek only the pleasures of riches and fame. Rather, it has been the risk-takers, the doers, the makers of things — some celebrated but more often men and women obscure in their labor, who have carried us up the long, rugged path towards prosperity and freedom.

For us, they packed up their few worldly possessions and traveled across oceans in search of a new life.

For us, they toiled in sweatshops and settled the West; endured the lash of the whip and plowed the hard earth.

For us, they fought and died, in places like Concord and Gettysburg; Normandy and Khe Sahn.

Time and again these men and women struggled and sacrificed and worked till their hands were raw so that we might live a better life. They saw America as bigger than the sum of our individual ambitions; greater than all the differences of birth or wealth or faction.

This is the journey we continue today. We remain the most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth. Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began. Our minds are no less inventive, our goods and services no less needed than they were last week or last month or last year. Our capacity remains undiminished. But our time of standing pat, of protecting narrow interests and putting off unpleasant decisions — that time has surely passed. Starting today, we must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and begin again the work of remaking America.

For everywhere we look, there is work to be done. The state of the economy calls for action, bold and swift, and we will act — not only to create new jobs, but to lay a new foundation for growth. We will build the roads and bridges, the electric grids and digital lines that feed our commerce and bind us together. We will restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost. We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories. And we will transform our schools and colleges and universities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. All this we will do.

Now, there are some who question the scale of our ambitions — who suggest that our system cannot tolerate too many big plans. Their memories are short. For they have forgotten what this country has already done; what free men and women can achieve when imagination is joined to common purpose, and necessity to courage.

What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them— that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply. The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works — whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified. Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no, programs will end. And those of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account — to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day — because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government.

Nor is the question before us whether the market is a force for good or ill. Its power to generate wealth and expand freedom is unmatched, but this crisis has reminded us that without a watchful eye, the market can spin out of control — and that a nation cannot prosper long when it favors only the prosperous. The success of our economy has always depended not just on the size of our Gross Domestic Product, but on the reach of our prosperity; on the ability to extend opportunity to every willing heart — not out of charity, but because it is the surest route to our common good.

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. And so to all other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born: know that America is a friend of each nation and every man, woman, and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity, and we are ready to lead once more.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

We are the keepers of this legacy. Guided by these principles once more, we can meet those new threats that demand even greater effort — even greater cooperation and understanding between nations. We will begin to responsibly leave Iraq to its people, and forge a hard-earned peace in Afghanistan. With old friends and former foes, we will work tirelessly to lessen the nuclear threat, and roll back the specter of a warming planet. We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense, and for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you.

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus — and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth; and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segregation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new era of peace.

To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West — know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy. To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history; but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.

To the people of poor nations, we pledge to work alongside you to make your farms flourish and let clean waters flow; to nourish starved bodies and feed hungry minds. And to those nations like ours that enjoy relative plenty, we say we can no longer afford indifference to suffering outside our borders; nor can we consume the world's resources without regard to effect. For the world has changed, and we must change with it.

As we consider the road that unfolds before us, we remember with humble gratitude those brave Americans who, at this very hour, patrol far-off deserts and distant mountains. They have something to tell us, just as the fallen heroes who lie in Arlington whisper through the ages. We honor them not only because they are guardians of our liberty, but because they embody the spirit of service; a willingness to find meaning in something greater than themselves. And yet, at this moment — a moment that will define a generation — it is precisely this spirit that must inhabit us all.

For as much as government can do and must do, it is ultimately the faith and determination of the American people upon which this nation relies. It is the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job which sees us through our darkest hours. It is the firefighter's courage to storm a stairway filled with smoke, but also a parent's willingness to nurture a child, that finally decides our fate.

Our challenges may be new. The instruments with which we meet them may be new. But those values upon which our success depends — honesty and hard work, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism — these things are old. These things are true. They have been the quiet force of progress throughout our history. What is demanded then is a return to these truths. What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility — a recognition, on the part of every American, that we have duties to ourselves, our nation, and the world, duties that we do not grudgingly accept but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character, than giving our all to a difficult task.

This is the price and the promise of citizenship.

This is the source of our confidence— the knowledge that God calls on us to shape an uncertain destiny.

This is the meaning of our liberty and our creed — why men and women and children of every race and every faith can join in celebration across this magnificent mall, and why a man whose father less than sixty years ago might not have been served at a local restaurant can now stand before you to take a most sacred oath.

So let us mark this day with remembrance, of who we are and how far we have traveled. In the year of America's birth, in the coldest of months, a small band of patriots huddled by dying campfires on the shores of an icy river. The capital was abandoned. The enemy was advancing. The snow was stained with blood. At a moment when the outcome of our revolution was most in doubt, the father of our nation ordered these words be read to the people:

"Let it be told to the future world...that in the depth of winter, when nothing but hope and virtue could survive ... that the city and the country, alarmed at one common danger, came forth to meet [it]."

America. In the face of our common dangers, in this winter of our hardship, let us remember these timeless words. With hope and virtue, let us brave once more the icy currents, and endure what storms may come. Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.

Thank you. God bless you. And God bless the United States of America.


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## Sonya (Jan 20, 2009)

I did not watch, we are busy remodeling. However, I do feel like Jill and the others...I hope he is all that everyone thinks he is, but I still have my doubts...and I am always proud to be an American, regardless of who occupies the oval office!

I am not looking forward to the "test" that Biden once spoke of that's for sure.


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## Erica (Jan 20, 2009)

Let me make it clear, that it was not my daughter Erica, but me who voiced my opinion on the cost of the inaugural proceedings. And it doesnt matter to me if it is President Obama or Bush or who ever. I just think it is crazy that this much money has to be spent. And if it is so easy for "his people" to raise that much money, why is it so hard to raise it for our failing economy???????????????????

Sorry, I just dont think anyone needs 10 inaugural balls. I would have been one of the first ones to praise him if instead of all of the money being spent over several days for this stuff, President Obama would have said " Lets enjoy this day, and celebrate, but the rest of the money needs to go to help the nation."

Oh well.

I really do hope we see a change. And I am very proud to be an american. I wish him well.

LINDA KILLION


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## MeadowRidge Farm (Jan 20, 2009)

I have been watching it from 3:30am, till 1:00pm...took a hour long break when my donkey farrier showed up, went out, trimmed 3 donkeys and one mini came back in and have had it on since. I only missed part of the luncheon. I think it has been very interesting. I think its time for this country to see a "change, and I am hoping he can do it. I am proud to be a American also.

Corinne


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## minie812 (Jan 20, 2009)

kaykay said:


> I thought back when these political posts were getting so bad before the election that everyone promised to support WHOEVER got elected and stand together. This country does not need more division for sure. We need to support our President and move forward


Well said...


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## AppyLover2 (Jan 20, 2009)

> I am always proud to be an American, regardless of who occupies the oval office!


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## Maxi'sMinis (Jan 20, 2009)

So if it were the Republicans having and inauguration it would be at Burger King cause they are not big spenders? I guess it was Ok for the Bush admin to spend 160mil for the Bush Inaug. But now that its the Dems they have to think of the little guy. Yeah the bush admin spent a lot of time thinking of the little guy. My hubby was laid of 3 times during W's reign. Let's see what this new young President can do for us. I just don't see how much more we have to lose at this point. I have my reservations but I am open to change. Most of my fears come from the last 8 years. Hale to the new Chief!


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## Chico (Jan 20, 2009)

Yes, I watched Mr. Obama with great pride. I have huge hope in this mans intregiuty and ability. He will make mistakes, he's human. But he will do so giving his best effort. This I'm sure about. I supported him in the election with time and donations and I will support him now that he's president in any way I can.

chico


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## JMS Miniatures (Jan 20, 2009)

OMG here we go again. Peoples if you don't have anything nice to say then don't post it. I don't think this post was intended on bashing our newest president before he is even in office yet. If you have to post your garbage do it on another post. I don't think the people who are happy and proud to see this day want to see this negative b.s.


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## Chico (Jan 20, 2009)

I hope I didn't sound negative. I feel very happy and hopeful.

teresa


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## JMS Miniatures (Jan 21, 2009)

Chico said:


> I hope I didn't sound negative. I feel very happy and hopeful.
> teresa


I'm sorry I wasn't referring to you


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## tagalong (Jan 21, 2009)

> I thought back when these political posts were getting so bad before the election that everyone promised to support WHOEVER got elected and stand together.


*kaykay* - you are right... but when I read that in those threads I knew it was not going to happen in some cases. No matter - everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I did not get to watch but caught the highlights. I would not have wanted to be in that crowd - but the atmosphere must have been exhilirating and electrifying...

Inaugurations are like American coronations, in a way. Much pomp and circumstance and glitter and glamour - that you do not get when there is a new British Prime Minister - or a Canadian one, for that matter. I am always puzzled as to why anyone elected to a second term goes through with all the Inaugural balls etc._ again_. I mean - _you did it once. Don't spend the money again!_ So Bush's _second_ inauguration cost almost as much as this one.... but that seems to be the norm. I guess Washington decides it needs to party - regardless of what else is going on in the outside world.

All that aside - it is history in the making as old words ring true... _we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..._


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## Jill (Jan 21, 2009)

Actually, I don't recall that "everyone promised to support WHOEVER got elected." That's an impossibly tall order. I also do not recall an overwhelming support voiced by everyone here for President Bush -- wouldn't that follow the same reasoning expressed?

One great thing about our Nation is that we are free to express our opinions, which a lot of us have put a great deal of life experience and effort into forming. I always support our Nation and what I think is best for us -- that's a freedom I enjoy and appreciate. That does not mean that I will be a cheerleader for a person who hasn't earned it in my eyes (but of course, I hope he will earn it!).

To not feel that the best man was elected -- and remember that 47% of the popular vote was for McCain / Palin, and member polls here were a landslide for the Republican ticket -- or to note some things that are already objectionable to you as an American, is not a bad thing. Some of those chastising others for stating a less than glowing opinion were not quiet about voicing your own negativity about the prior administration.

And, really, is it even a conversation if the discussion is only open to those who are going to echo back the same opinion? Man, would that be boring! I don't even want to hear what someone has to say if they're not saying what they really feel.


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## hunterridgefarm (Jan 21, 2009)

And, really, is it even a conversation if the discussion is only open to those who are going to echo back the same opinion? Man, would that be boring! I don't even want to hear what someone has to say if they're not saying what they really feel.

Thank you Jill


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## Sonya (Jan 21, 2009)

> That does not mean that I will be a cheerleader for a person who hasn't earned it in my eyes (but of course, I hope he will earn it!).








I think this is what irriatates me the most about his supporters. He HASN'T done anything yet, heck he didn't even complete a full senate term. His supporters idolize him, but can give no reason of why other than...he gives us hope...hope for what?...a change...a change of what? I for one do not want the United States to change. Do we need work in areas? Absolutely, but I certainly don't want it to change! I am amazed at how so many people are just now proud to be an American...why? What has he done to make you proud?

They are selling condoms with his face on them...that is going way overboard! A painting with his face and Martin Luther King's together...the only similarity is that they are both black...Obama has not done anything to deserve to be compared to King, I hope he will, but he hasn't.

I too think it is great that this nation has come to a point where a black man can be president, I would think it to be even greater if that man was qualified to be in the position.

Only time will tell. He sure has his hands full...he's made alot of promises and I fear alot of people are going to be very disappointed when he doesn't follow through on them.

I wish him the best...for our Country's sake.


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## My-Lil-Pony (Jan 21, 2009)

> he's made alot of promises and I fear alot of people are going to be very disappointed when he doesn't follow through on them


After reading this thread I truly fear a lot of people will be very disappointed *when he does* follow throughand brings about the change we need.


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## Sonya (Jan 21, 2009)

> After reading this thread I truly fear a lot of people will be very disappointed when he does follow throughand brings about the change we need.


I am curious, what *change* do you think this country needs?

Of course everyone would like to see the economy improve, and if HE can make that happen that would be great, so what else?

Socialized healthcare????


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## whitney (Jan 21, 2009)

You BET I DID. I was wearing RED WHITE AND BLUE and my FLAG PIN to boot!

Obama has already addressed *his* non supporters, he will gain their support by deed, (acceptance speach).

I CAN'T WAIT for the next 4 years.

Not one to do this but......I'll be the first to say *"I TOLD YOU SO".*


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## Sonya (Jan 21, 2009)

> I'll be the first to say "I TOLD YOU SO".


Me too!


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## My-Lil-Pony (Jan 21, 2009)

The fact that this country voted for the first African American President by a majority shows how much change he has already brought about!

What needs to be changed? I am not a political expert this is what I am looking for:

Economy

World view of us

War in Iraq

Bringing back a sense of community in this Country

Volunteerism

Engaging our Youth to feel empowered and to care about this Country and the enviroment

Adaquate health care for our citizens

Doing our best to ensure no one in our own country goes to bed hungry or without a home .

Ensuring that the majority of our homless population is not Veterans

Helping to ensure that our youth can get the education needed to compete in world business

Gaining back the respect of other countries world wide without this we can not consider ourselves a leader of anything

Most of all I personally feel that he will bring us back to a "US" country not a "ME" country together we can change the world.

That is just a few things I personally feel need to be changed in this country.

A few of you will choose not to agree and that is just fine more of us agreed then disagreed and a sense of community is always empowering! No amount of negative talk will change my sense of hope!

LOL so much for my parents teaching me not to discuss politics or religion!


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## Reble (Jan 21, 2009)

I also believe your President gives us Canadians HOPE in our time of NEED.






I enjoyed it all, even watching Obama and his wife dancing.


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## Jill (Jan 21, 2009)

whitney said:


> Not one to do this but......I'll be the first to say *"I TOLD YOU SO".*


That's nice of you to say. I honestly hope you get the chance but won't hold my breath.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Jan 21, 2009)

Clickmini, thank you for posting that speech! I hadn't heard it yet and WOW.



I got misty-eyed more than a few times reading that.

Leia


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## Sonya (Jan 21, 2009)

> Most of all I personally feel that he will bring us back to a "US" country not a "ME" country


I don't think any president can do that...that starts at home and it's a form of personal responsibility, which you are right, many in this country do not have and I don't expect O. to teach them that.

At any point, I hope he does a good job and when he does, I will be a supporter, but I am not going to glorify a man who has yet to do anything of importance...for that matter I only glorify God anyhow.





I wish him the best of luck, he will need it.


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## Pepipony (Jan 21, 2009)

Sonya said:


> > Most of all I personally feel that he will bring us back to a "US" country not a "ME" country
> 
> 
> I don't think any president can do that...that starts at home and it's a form of personal responsibility, which you are right, many in this country do not have and I don't expect O. to teach them that.
> ...




ANY President can do that. First, they have to decide that they are not right all the time, no matter what. They have to employ thinkers from both sides and not just 'yes' men. They have to listen with their mouths closed, to all the facts and not just the facts that support their cause. They cannot tell the public that they would be all for one thing even no one was behind them. They cannot state that the facts are too big for us ( insert peons here) to understand.

The change we need is a turn away from trickle down economics, we have seen that those at the top, do not employ enough ethics for that to work. We need to talk to our enemies, you cannot solve anything by turning a blind eye and hoping they will come around. We need to get a handle on the cost of healthcare, if your Dr says you need 'X' , your insurance shouldnt be able to say you dont. We need to keep the fuel industry from raping the economy and gaining huge profits ( profits are good, but not to the failure of an economy). We need to bring jobs back across the ocean, I bet everyone on here has spoken to someone with such an accent that you cannot understand them, so much for customer service. We need to bring our dollar back. We need to bring our standing in the World back up. that enough change that we need?


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## Sonya (Jan 21, 2009)

Pepipony, all that has nothing to do with personal responsibility which is what I was referring too in the statement (Most of all I personally feel that he will bring us back to a "US" country not a "ME" country)...just wanted to clarify. I do not think it is a presidents job to instill personal responsibility into a person...Personal responsiblity is basically a way of life and many in this country do not lead it.


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## Jill (Jan 21, 2009)

I don't know what a the democratic party is really going to do to instill a sense of personal responsiblity, as my strong feelings about personal responsibility are the #1 reason I'm a republican. Personal responsibility is absolutely *not* a strong suit of the democratic party...


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## ClickMini (Jan 21, 2009)

Wow Jill, did you read Obama's Inaugural speech? What part of it didn't shout "personal responsibility?" His were tough words, making no bones about the fact that people need to act at every level.

I hope that everyone can give the new administration a chance to show what they have and consider all proposals with an open, inquiring mind. I do not 100% align with ANY candidate, but am very willing to observe their actions, consider it carefully in alignment with my personal values, and make a judgement. You may not think Obama is experienced enough, but perhaps he is what we need at this moment in time. Someone not entrenched in the old ways, someone who can evaluate things through fresh eyes. We don't know yet. We are in the midst of unprecedented times. The socio-economic structures as they exist today do not have historical precedent. With this in mind, we need to flex the processes of the past to meet a new reality.



> Human thinking left to itself often leads to various forms of self-deception, individually and socially; and at the left, right, and mainstream of economic, political, and religious issues. Further analysis and resources about this interaction may be found in Roderick Hindery (2001): Indoctrination and Self-deception or Free and Critical Thought.
> From "Wikipedia: Critical Thinking," 1/21/2009, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking


I believe that people need to be aware of their own biases and reflect on proposals and analyses through that lens. WHAT IF your assumptions are incorrect? WHAT IF the results veer from the path you expected? How does that affect other areas? Is your thinking flexible enough to accept answers that were not what you expected?

By nature, I am a pretty free-form person, very right-brain big picture creative. In my job I am a systems analyst. A left-brain activity if ever there were one. What that means to me is that I have to be extremely aware of the critical thinking process. I hope that all Americans can begin to apply this skill in a deliberate way as it applies to our government representatives at every level.

And Jill, this is not meant as a poke at you. However your statement that "Personal responsibility is absolutely not a strong suit of the democratic party," seems to me a belief that has not been recently examined in comparison with our other choices. Many of our own rights have been curtailed since the Republican Party took office in 2001. Based on my observations, government became increasingly intrusive under the previous administration. Which flies in the face of the assumption that the Republican Party stands for small government and state's rights. Belief system / Results = Reality.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 21, 2009)

Sonya said:


> > After reading this thread I truly fear a lot of people will be very disappointed when he does follow throughand brings about the change we need.
> 
> 
> I am curious, what *change* do you think this country needs?
> ...


National health care.

Higher standard of living.

Improved international relations.

Increased focus on the homefront.

Improvements to our educational system-including repealing or altering NCLB.

DADT repealed.

Also all that stuff My-Lil-Pony posted.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Jan 21, 2009)

Amy!!!!!

You are awesome!

My thoughts exactly!


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## Jill (Jan 21, 2009)

Amy, sorry just seeing this. I was in client appointments making money most of the day





In all my years of following politics, I have found the democratic party to stand for expansion of social programs and hand outs. This is the opposite of promoting personal responsiblity.

Just look at Lowrise's expections. Right at the top of the list -- a higher standard of living. I've been responsible for MY standard of living since I was 18.

Further, I disagree that government oversight expanded during the last administration, other than the steps taken to protect against terrorist intentions.

And, when it comes to national health care, as a business owner, I know I'm going to make the numbers work for me if the burdeon falls on business owners. If that means letting go of employees, that's what will happen in my corporation and many others. Businesses primarily exist to benefit the owners, not the employees... like it or not. While I care a lot about my employees, my family comes first and I didn't bust my butt building what I've built to have to spend $$$$ more to provide health insurance to employees.


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## ILOVEMYHORSECOMANCHE (Jan 21, 2009)

Yes I watched it during school



I thought that he said a very nice speech, and was glad that everyone was a part of history


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## ClickMini (Jan 21, 2009)

I reject your statement that government oversight was not expanded over the past eight years. What about the Patriot Act? Do you think you might feel differently about your responses online, on the phone, when making online purchases, etc., if you disagreed with government policies? What if you were openly critical of the way Bush, et al. were handling the war? The end runs around the Geneva Convention regarding torture? What if you were closely observed in your behaviors based only on the fact that a family member or friend had a government clearance?



> Section 215 allows the FBI to order any person or entity to turn over "any tangible things," so long as the FBI "specif[ies]" that the order is "for an authorized investigation . . . to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities." *Section 215 vastly expands the FBI's power to spy on ordinary people living in the United States, including United States citizens and permanent residents. *
> 
> The FBI need not show probable cause, *nor even reasonable grounds to believe*, that the person whose records it seeks is engaged in criminal activity.
> 
> ...


The emphasis in the above quotes are mine. I feel so heartened that the first actions of our new president are around cleaning up the mess in Guantanamo, immediately creating more transparency in government activities, and halting all pending administration regulations until they can be reviewed.

It may not be perfect, and the execution may not be flawless. But I feel strongly that this president has come into the office with some bold ideas and is interested in involving all of us in the future growth of the country we all love.

Signed,

Amy Lacy

USAF veteran, wife of USAF veteran, mother of USAF active duty airman


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## Jill (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm aware of what you've referenced and I feel that the powers afforded are in the best interest of the Nation and all its law abiding citizens. The FBI is more than welcome to listen in on my phone calls, read my emails, etc. They'd get mighty bored if they did, but since I'm not doing anything wrong, it's not something that would bother me.

As someone who is a securities industry professional, I myself appreciate the intent and protection of the Patriot Act. Additionally, it's something I deal with and comply with on a daily basis. Every day, myself and my staff take measures to protect against money laundering, something vitally important that is also addressed by the Patriot Act.

So, from me, it's not a matter of being underinformed. I just have a different perspective than yours on the situation...


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## ClickMini (Jan 21, 2009)

However, based on the above quote, would you agree that the government oversight INCREASED on Bush's watch? To paraphrase, you just said you don't mind losing your right to privacy. But what if something happened that you vehemently disagreed with? What if you discussed it in your community, what if you wanted to attend a protest, and what if you got a little visit from the FBI for your troubles? Might that just shake you up a bit, make you a little less likely to speak out? MIGHT THAT RUB AGAINST YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS???? And isn't that the freedom that our country is based on?


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## Jill (Jan 21, 2009)

ClickMini said:


> However, based on the above quote, would you agree that the government oversight INCREASED on Bush's watch? To paraphrase, you just said you don't mind losing your right to privacy. But what if something happened that you vehemently disagreed with? What if you discussed it in your community, what if you wanted to attend a protest, and what if you got a little visit from the FBI for your troubles? Might that just shake you up a bit, make you a little less likely to speak out? MIGHT THAT RUB AGAINST YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS???? And isn't that the freedom that our country is based on?


Amy, as I stated a couple posts above my most recent one, I don't feel government oversight expanded EXCEPT when it comes to protection against terrorist intent. As you know, that is in fact the subject that the Patriot Act revolves around. Again, I do not have problems with the Patriot Act including the text you have highlighted. I'm not worried about what your post illustrates as something that you feel might (actually happen and) shake me up a bit.



Jill said:


> Further, I disagree that government oversight expanded during the last administration, other than the steps taken to protect against terrorist intentions.


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## ClickMini (Jan 21, 2009)

Well it's been fun playing with you Jill! LOL

Gotta go home and work some horses.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 21, 2009)

I'd like to know how raising our national standard of living has anything to do with personal responsibility. We're far from low on the list, but I think we can do better than being #8, don't you?


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## Jill (Jan 22, 2009)

LowriseMinis said:


> I'd like to know how raising our national standard of living has anything to do with personal responsibility. We're far from low on the list, but I think we can do better than being #8, don't you?


Lowrise, I feel that we are each responsible for our own standard of living. If someone doesn't feel like their standard of living is good enough, I cannot think of a Nation that provides more opportunity for individual improvement. How is your standard of living not a personal responsibility? I'd say it's a very basic one.

If everyone, or even almost everyone, took personal responsibility for their own standard of living, vs. waiting for Uncle Sam to lend a hand, what do you think would happen the the National standard of living as a result?


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 22, 2009)

Actually, the report I saw citing us at #8 is wrong. We've dropped quite a bit.

I don't think you're quite getting what I'm talking about when I say 'standard of living'. I should have provided a link earlier, so here's one now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index



> The Human Development Index (HDI) is an index combining normalized measures of life expectancy, literacy, educational attainment, and GDP per capita for countries worldwide. It is claimed as a standard means of measuring human development — a concept that, according to the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), refers to the process of widening the options of persons, giving them greater opportunities for education, health care, income, employment, etc. The basic use of HDI is to rank countries by level of "human development", which usually also implies to determine whether a country is a developed, developing, or underdeveloped country.





> A new index was released on December 18, 2008. This so-called "statistical update" covers the period up to 2006 and was published without an accompanying report on human development. The update is relevant due to newly released estimates of purchasing power parities (PPP), implying substantial adjustments for many countries, resulting in changes in HDI values and, in many cases, HDI ranks.[6]
> 1. Iceland 0.968 (▬)
> 
> 2. Norway 0.968 (▬)
> ...


When I say standard of living, I'm not talking about if I can afford a new car. I am not talking about MY standard of living. I'm talking about the nation as a whole. I'm asking: is this country doing everything possible to help it's citizens be productive? To be healthy? Educated? It is up to every single person to take initiative when something is offered to improve their own situation, but we also have to be sure this country is doing it's part. From that list, we could be doing better, couldn't we? So many people are keen to tell others to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, without realizing some people in this country don't have boots.

Something interesting to note, since it's a pet cause of mine: Every nation ahead of us on this list has some form of nationalized health care.


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## Jill (Jan 22, 2009)

LowriseMinis said:


> When I say standard of living, I'm not talking about if I can afford a new car. I am not talking about MY standard of living. I'm talking about the nation as a whole. I'm asking: is this country doing everything possible to help it's citizens be productive? To be healthy? Educated? It is up to every single person to take initiative when something is offered to improve their own situation, but we also have to be sure this country is doing it's part. From that list, we could be doing better, couldn't we? So many people are keen to tell others to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, without realizing some people in this country don't have boots.
> Something interesting to note, since it's a pet cause of mine: Every nation ahead of us on this list has some form of nationalized health care.


If you don't feel that the way to improve the National standard of living is for everyone to take the initiative to improve their own standard of living, then I guess we have to realize our life experiences have made it impossible for us to reach the same conclusion on this matter





Hopefully if National Healthcare does come to pass, your employer won't let you and some of your coworkers go as a result. That all important bottom line -- as the primary reason a business is established and exists is to provide for the owner(s). I know that for my own personal health insurance and health care, I pay more than many people do for their mortgage. But that's okay with me. It's my own personal responsibility to take care of myself. I've been supporting myself -- the roof over my head, the food I eat, the cars I drive, and my education -- since I was 18, which was "a few years ago"





Some of the things you have said further illustrate to me that there's a big sense of entitlement in this Nation and not enough personal initiative. The harder I work for what I have, the more I feel like others should also do what they can to provide for themselves


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 22, 2009)

I'm sorry if my legitimate concern for our nation's standing in the world and the wellbeing of my fellow citizens strikes anyone as being a sense of entitlement. I know it's horribly selfish of me to think that by investing more in our nation's education and healthcare, we might be doing ourselves some good.

/sarcasm

So, you're saying that the countries that rank ahead of us on that scale are only there because each and every one of their citizens has more personal responsibility than us Americans?

I know I've attempted to educate in the past about Obama's health plan during his campaign. You would have a _choice_ to use it. If your employer provides insurance, you can still use that. If you want to buy a private plan, you still can. I'm not sure why, exactly, that would cause my employer to fire me.

Besides, I have a very good union backing me.





Is there anything else on my list you'd like to pick apart?


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## Jill (Jan 22, 2009)

Lowrise, we aren't going to see eye to eye, like I said -- let's chalk it up to our different life experiences and let it go. I've expressed my point of view as well as I can given the time I am willing to spend on it within this thread and am sorry you feel your opinion has been picked apart.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 22, 2009)

If you'd like to walk away, that's fine. But do you disagree that it is the responsibility of a country to provide everything it can to help it's citizens succeed?

Do you disagree that health care is a human right?

Do you disagree that not everyone in this nation is on level footing? That not every person has the same upbringing, social or economic status?

Should we or should we not always be striving to do better for our people?


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## Sonya (Jan 22, 2009)

> Do you disagree that not everyone in this nation is on level footing? That not every person has the same upbringing, social or economic status?


I know this question was directed at Jill but I would like to give my opinion. It is true that not everyone has the same upbringing, social or economic status. But we ALL have opportunity in this country to change that if we so choose... every single one of us, aside from the handicapped, etc. It is called hard work and initiative! I was raised in a below middle class family economically. I was the first to attend college and receive a degree. I now make over 6 figures. How did I do it? I worked 2 jobs while I attended college full time (on student loans that 15yrs later I am still paying on). So, there is plenty of opportunity for people to improve their standard of living, it takes sacrifice, hard work and personal responsibility. There are thousands of success stories probably right here on this forum.

One of the problems with this country today, is that many do want to improve their standards, but don't want to get off their butt to do it!


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## Charlene (Jan 22, 2009)

just a few thoughts...

i think more people can identify with president obama because i don't think he's one of those "wealthy" ne'er-do-wells. whether or not that should have elicited more popular votes, maybe not but the fact is, there are more average or below-average income people in this country than there are wealthy people. at least, that's my own limited experience.

i think john mccain embodied much of what former president bush stood for in the minds of some of us "common" people, that being a vision of a man tooling around a thousand acre ranch (or more?) in a vehicle that cost more than some of us paid for the homes we so desperately want to hang on to but fear we will lose because of the economy and job losses.

i am sick to death of "the first black man" blah, blah, blah. if i'm not mistaken, president obama's mother was white. he is biracial, he is not black. i understand that even a man of biracial descent has accomplished what a few short years ago was unthinkable in the minds of many by becoming president of the united states but c'mon already, give it a rest. living in illinois, i was proud to see him in the senate and i have followed his relatively brief political career and i am happy he has achieved this success but i just don't see what the big deal is. i would have voted for him if his skin was purple with flourescent green polka dots! i just think the news media went way over the top by CONSTANTLY calling his race into play. it was almost as if they were shocked that a black man could possibly have the ability to succeed, obviously a VERY erroneous thought process. all you have to do is look down through history.

i also believe that the obama family has, in some respects, been compared to the kennedy family. obviously, the wealth factor does not apply but i am old enough to remember the joy that john kennedy brought to this country and i remember so well watching caroline riding macaroni over jumps placed on the white house lawn. i think it will be refreshing and even FUN to see a young family in the white house again and i, for one, can't wait to see the new white house puppy when they finally make up their minds!!!





i wish president obama and his family the very best. i hope he can prove his doubters wrong although i know it will take time.





EDITED to add...having shared my life for 12 wonderful years with a man i love more than life itself, watching the obamas gaze into each others eyes absolutely gave me chills and made me cry more than once. when they wrapped their arms around each other during one dance, i thought to myself yeah, this'll work.  you have to start all the good stuff at home and it's obvious to me, they love and respect each other to the max!


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## Maxi'sMinis (Jan 22, 2009)

Ditto Charlene!


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## Jill (Jan 22, 2009)

LowriseMinis said:


> If you'd like to walk away, that's fine. But do you disagree that it is the responsibility of a country to provide everything it can to help it's citizens succeed?


Lowrise, didn't I plainly say several times that I believe each individual is responsible for providing for their own standard of living and improving it if they choose to do so?

Does the Country wave a magic wand to improve the Nation's standard of living? If so then I'm all for it. But if that means higher taxes on the so called "wealthy", no I'm not for that at all.

I've plainly said what I mean in this thread. I see no room to be confused by the things I've said. Yes, I can see room for some to disagree but to be confused about what I meant? I don't think so.



LowriseMinis said:


> Do you disagree that not everyone in this nation is on level footing? That not every person has the same upbringing, social or economic status?
> Should we or should we not always be striving to do better for our people?


Do you honestly not see that sentiment for what it is? Communism. Maybe it sounds good up until you yourself realize how much better you may have it than a good percentage of the population and then reflect upon what you yourself have done to provide that reality for yourself.



Sonya said:


> > Do you disagree that not everyone in this nation is on level footing? That not every person has the same upbringing, social or economic status?
> 
> 
> I know this question was directed at Jill but I would like to give my opinion. It is true that not everyone has the same upbringing, social or economic status. But we ALL have opportunity in this country to change that if we so choose... every single one of us, aside from the handicapped, etc. It is called hard work and initiative! I was raised in a below middle class family economically. I was the first to attend college and receive a degree. I now make over 6 figures. How did I do it? I worked 2 jobs while I attended college full time (on student loans that 15yrs later I am still paying on). So, there is plenty of opportunity for people to improve their standard of living, it takes sacrifice, hard work and personal responsibility. There are thousands of success stories probably right here on this forum.
> ...


Sonya -- AMEN!!!


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## Mona (Jan 22, 2009)

WONDERFUL post Charlene!!


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## McBunz (Jan 22, 2009)

I am wondering if you, Jill would have such strong opinions on this if you were not working for you father/ partner and your job was on the line like it is

for a lot of people. Could you then afford health care and all the other things you enjoy.. ??? Try banking your paycheck for a few months without using it

and see how the majority might feel.. Try looking for a job with your qualifications and see if there is an abundance of opportunities out there..


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## Pepipony (Jan 22, 2009)

txminipinto said:


> Pepipony said:
> 
> 
> > I cant help but wonder how Bush made us safe if an attack happened on his watch? Didnt those 3k people die during his term? I am NOT saying that any President would have stopped the attacks, although I think another may have. What I am saying is how can Bush be acredited for keeping us safe when the largest attack since Pearl happened on his watch?
> ...


You werent the only one that has stated this, that is why I didnt quote anyone specific. But it wouldnt suprise me to not get a reply anyhow, there really isnt a plausible one. To explain that more, I would assume then if ( God forbid) Obama has a huge attack killing thousands, so long as the rest of his term is attack free, then 'you' would state that he kept us safe? I didnt think so.


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## Jill (Jan 22, 2009)

McBunz said:


> I am wondering if you, Jill would have such strong opinions on this if you were not working for you father/ partner and your job was on the line like it isfor a lot of people. Could you then afford health care and all the other things you enjoy.. ??? Try banking your paycheck for a few months without using it
> 
> and see how the majority might feel.. Try looking for a job with your qualifications and see if there is an abundance of opportunities out there..


Well, not that it is any of your business, but I am the President of the corporation. I am also the one in charge of the office and client accounts when it comes to answering to the regulatory authorities. So, while my father is my business partner and has been since 1994 when I was 25 and really benefitted in getting large accounts with the visibility of a more senior partner. I do not work for my dad and truly, he lets all our joint clients know he works for me (which is good for a laugh but more true than not). We work well together and enjoy what we have both built.

My "pay check" is on the line every day in a sense as I do not get paid by the hour but rather by how much business I bring in, and managing the money and accounts I have already brought in... a considerable book of business that I work hard build and maintain. From my management of accounts, acquiring new clients, and working with existing clients, I am able to earn a living for myself, rent a large office suite, pay my administrative staff, advertise, etc., etc., etc.

Your last sentence -- _try looking for a job with your qualifications._ I can see no way to take that other than as a very rude remark and short fallen attempt at observation. I do not have to look for a job. I have built a business through hard work, initiative and major financial sacrafices early on. But if I chose to now take a pay cut, I have ALL the credentials and qualifications to run a brokerage office and supervise all the stock brokers in it. I'm sure there are many additional things I'm qualified to do as well, but as someone who's been self employed for most of her working life, I don't find it likely that I'll be filling out job applications anytime soon.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 22, 2009)

So because one person was able to do something, every person is able to do something.

Working to improve our standard of living by improving our health care and education systems is communism.

_Now_ I get it.


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## Pepipony (Jan 22, 2009)

LowriseMinis said:


> So because one person was able to do something, every person is able to do something.
> Working to improve our standard of living by improving our health care and education systems is communism.
> 
> _Now_ I get it.


Well, its trickle down economics my dear. Its good practice to bail out big banks/financial things, to the tune of $700,000,000,000.00 + , with no real watchdoging to make sure they arent paying themselves big fat wads of cash because their business is thriving and they deserve it. But its bad business to help the peons who lost their job because those big business savy gurus decided they needed the money. Or the retirees who worked their entire lives for their retirement, but lost it all because those business savy gurus ran their business into the ground. The thing about trickle down economics is those at the top reap the rewards while the business fails and those at the bottom lose everything. Then those at the bottom get griped out because 'they didnt plan for themselves'. gee, I thought having a retirement plan was a plan?

Its communism to do things for the peons. Its good business to do for the 'rich'.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 22, 2009)

Oh! On that note, interesting bailout graphic I came across.


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## McBunz (Jan 22, 2009)

What I am trying to say is there are a great many people who have worked hard all their lives and with the bad times have lost jobs and can not find jobs no matter what qualifications they have. No jobs.... no health care... How many people have posted on here that an illness with themselves or a family member has wiped them out.. Eating and roof over their families heads comes first.. How many minimum wage jobs do a couple have to work just to pay for these.


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## Reble (Jan 22, 2009)

McBunz said:


> What I am trying to say is there are a great many people who have worked hard all their lives and with the bad times have lost jobs and can not find jobs no matter what qualifications they have. No jobs.... not health care... How many people have posted on here that an illness with themselves or a family member has wiped them out.. Eating and roof over their families heads comes first.. How many minimum wage jobs do a couple have to work just to pay for these.


I must say we used to be considered over the middle class

No more middle class there is just poor or rich...






Obama has not just given Americans HOPE, We too Canadians have HOPE


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## Jill (Jan 22, 2009)

Reble said:


> I must say we used to be considered over the middle class No more middle class there is just poor or rich...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Poor people don't own horses, only middle class and rich... because no one needs a horse and if a person can afford to own them, then they must also have spare money and money they can put away.

As to hope, I've had hope all my life. It's not hope that someone will give me something or hope that someone will take care of me, but hope (and expectations) about what I can work for and do for myself.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 22, 2009)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_...cted_terrorists



> *Obama signs order to close Guantanamo in a year*
> WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama began overhauling U.S. treatment of terror suspects Thursday, signing orders to close the Guantanamo Bay detention center, shut down secret overseas CIA prisons, review military war crimes trials and ban the harshest interrogation methods.





> "The message that we are sending the world is that the United States intends to prosecute the ongoing struggle against violence and terrorism and we are going to do so vigilantly and we are going to do so effectively and we are going to do so in a manner that is consistent with our values and our ideals," the president said.


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## Sonya (Jan 22, 2009)

> What I am trying to say is there are a great many people who have worked hard all their lives and with the bad times have lost jobs and can not find jobs no matter what qualifications they have. No jobs.... not health care... How many people have posted on here that an illness with themselves or a family member has wiped them out.. Eating and roof over their families heads comes first.. How many minimum wage jobs do a couple have to work just to pay for these.


No one disputs the above, life has it's up and down for everyone. I have been laid off, no health insurance, living off ramen noodles ...but I still didn't expect others to pick me up and carry my load. And I agree with Jill it's very frustrating to hear people constantly complain about how terrible their life is financially, no health insurance, yet they are driving around in a new vehicle or have numerous animals (especially horses which are so expensive to keep).

Ex: A friend of mine ran into some financial difficulty...she owns two horses (pays board for them) and called me for $ for her car payment. Sorry...nope! I asked her why she isn't selling her horses and she said, "I shouldn't have to give up everything I love"....well if you can't pay for it, then yes you should! If her car was for sale, her horses for sale, if I saw an effort on her part to improve her financial situation by cutting back, I would of gladly gave her the money. She is a perfect example of one who is not personally responsible like so many others in this country. And IMO that is one of the biggest reasons why this country is in the economic disaster it's in.


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## susanne (Jan 22, 2009)

Personal responsibility and a willingness to help others ARE NOT mutually exclusive.

I take complete responsibility for my own life, my shortcomings and my accomplishments, but I refuse to think that I am better than those who are experiencing difficulty merely surviving.

My mother raised 6 kids after my father died, and while she refused to go on welfare, she never once acted superior to those who were "needy." (Which we were, according to the bitch-wives of our community...but while we never had a spare nickel, my mother constantly reminded us of how much we had compared to many.)

Instead, we were raised with a strong work ethic AND a sense of the need to give to others. Being self-employed, I am hit hard by taxes, but I still vote for school bond levies and social programs. Throughout my adult life, I've donated my time or money to worthy causes. I spend a regular percentage of my work time taking on pro bono projects.

I am far from unique. There are many good people in our country who refuse to follow the "I got mine" philosophy popularized during the Reagan administration. They consider themselves very fortunate and therefore feel that they MUST give back.

Yes, there are people who take advantage of any program, but there are many deserving folks whose lives simply need a jump start. The recipients, however, are not the ones who benefit most. It is all of us -- our nation as a whole.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 22, 2009)

Amen, Susanne, my sentiments exactly.





I'm hoping to go into business for myself in a few years doing massage therapy. The tax aspect is scary, innit?


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## Jill (Jan 22, 2009)

There are a lot of people who can and do choose to help others, myself included. It's another thing altogether to have that "help" mandated, controlled and distributed by the Government.

Honestly, it's just something I feel very strongly about personally and also a part of my practice is helping clients transfer their wealth to those they want to benefit from it, vs. having so much of it "lost" to taxation.

Some of us feel our already high tax brackets are enough when it comes to what the government feels should come from us and go (partially... eventually) to benefit others.


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## horsehug (Jan 22, 2009)

Very well said, Susanne!

Susan O.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Jan 22, 2009)

Well you know that some people love their animals like family. I agree that she should NOT have to sell her horses just because times are a little bad right now. THAT would be irresponsible. You don't sell your kids, or take your dogs to the pound either. Just my opinion.

And there are plenty of people that work two or three jobs and have no health care. THAT is not sitting on your butt. And yes, they should be paid enough to be able to take care of themselves if they or their family gets sick.

And you know,,, there are plenty of us that have worked all our lives, paid for what we have. That does not mean ( in my world) that I don't think others should not get a helping hand. God help me if I EVER feel resentful because my taxes go to people in need. There are always scrounges waiting for freebies. But there are also 90% of the elderly, children, veterans and people that just need help.


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## Sonya (Jan 22, 2009)

> Well you know that some people love their animals like family. I agree that she should NOT have to sell her horses just because times are a little bad right now.


If she can't afford it, she can't afford it...she can't ride those horses to work/school...and if the unlikely event that they get ill, she certainly can't afford to treat them. She should not be begging others for money when she has 2 horses in a boarding situation and has no intent of selling/leasing them. She pays $400 month for board and that does not include shoes, etc...yet, she receives grocery assistance from the govt due to her low income. I would have no problem with her getting assistance, but not when she is spending $400 amonth for board...this is taking away assistance for others who need it more than her...someone who has children to feed not horses! Horses are a luxury, not a necessity.


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## Jill (Jan 23, 2009)

I agree with you 100%, Sonya











There's such a sense of entitlement in this Nation. If you can't afford something, you are not entitled to have it. To be on government assistance and own a horse -- now that is mind boggling to me









But, since others disagree and feel she shouldn't have to sell her horses when she can't afford them, I think you should post her name and address so people here and go on and get their checks out to her


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## Danielle_E. (Jan 23, 2009)

> Ex: A friend of mine ran into some financial difficulty...she owns two horses (pays board for them) and called me for $ for her car payment. Sorry...nope! I asked her why she isn't selling her horses and she said, "I shouldn't have to give up everything I love"....well if you can't pay for it, then yes you should! If her car was for sale, her horses for sale, if I saw an effort on her part to improve her financial situation by cutting back, I would of gladly gave her the money. She is a perfect example of one who is not personally responsible like so many others in this country. And IMO that is one of the biggest reasons why this country is in the economic disaster it's in.


I guess I am a little confused. By your original post about your "friend" it sounded like the financial situation she now finds herself in is not the norm for her but in your subsequent post it sounds like she has always been a low wage earner which makes me wonder how she could afford to buy two horses in the first place and pay $400 board (per horse?). If her financial situation that she finds herself in at the moment is temporary I certainly, if I was her friend, would help her out financially and would help her find a solution to getting back on the path she use to be on. I guess I am one person who has strong beliefs that you should not judge someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes first. It's easy to be critical and say in this situation I would do this and this and that. You have no idea until you get there how you would react and also if it's not a permanent thing it makes perfect sense to me that she would try and keep her animals in the hopes that things might turn around for her quickly. Of course I would tell her that it is a "loan" and come up with a plan that is feasible, once she is back on firmer financial footing, to repay it.

Now back to the subject,

Yes, I watched the inauguration and the speech. I was deeply moved. I perused the international newspapers to see the reaction to your new President and it was wonderful to see the excitement, the positive remarks around the world from many governments and people. Congratulations, I think the people of America have elected the right man for this these times.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Jan 23, 2009)

But, since others disagree and feel she shouldn't have to sell her horses when she can't afford them, I think you should post her name and address so people here and go on and get their checks out to her

Sounds like a Bush-ism to me! Point and laugh at the person who is down and then take away her privacy! Fun!


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## Ashley (Jan 23, 2009)

> If she can't afford it, she can't afford it...she can't ride those horses to work/school...and if the unlikely event that they get ill, she certainly can't afford to treat them. She should not be begging others for money when she has 2 horses in a boarding situation and has no intent of selling/leasing them. She pays $400 month for board and that does not include shoes, etc...yet, she receives grocery assistance from the govt due to her low income. I would have no problem with her getting assistance, but not when she is spending $400 amonth for board...this is taking away assistance for others who need it more than her...someone who has children to feed not horses! Horses are a luxury, not a necessity.


I agree she shouldnt have them. HOwever I do know many people that are on goverment assistence that have horses or other animals but are trying to get rid of them. Whats the thought there? ARe they bad to?

What about those on assistance but are raising animals for their own food?


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## Sonya (Jan 23, 2009)

> I agree she shouldnt have them. HOwever I do know many people that are on goverment assistence that have horses or other animals but are trying to get rid of them. Whats the thought there? ARe they bad to?
> What about those on assistance but are raising animals for their own food?


Absolutely not, I'm not saying anyone is bad...my friend for example has had financial difficulties off and on since I've known her (and I say friend loosely, we hardly talk anymore). She has never paid her bills on time, has asked me for (and I've given her) money in the past. She has managed to get the medical card and grocery assistance and although she is a low wage earner, still drives a a newer/nicer car than I. She is worse off now than she has ever been since she bought the car that she could not afford in the first place. I will not help her financially again, not when she knows and continues to live above her means. We all make mistakes, but when you continue to do it, it's a habit. Everyone has found themselves in a pinch at times and that's not what I'm talking about here...but at the same time many people live above their means when they know they can't afford it and they don't care....If I saw her attempt to get rid of her horses then I would feel differently about her situation, but she has already said she will not sell/lease them or even give them away. And of course those who raise animals for food can't even be compared here...I don't know anyone in this country who raises horses for food though.



> sounds like she has always been a low wage earner which makes me wonder how she could afford to buy two horses in the first place and pay $400 board (per horse?).


The horses were given to her a couple years ago and the board is $200 a horse...so $400 total....nice barn even has an indoor arena.

If I posted her name here and you all sent her a check, she would gladly except it. I know she wouldn't consider it a point-and laugh situation, she would love it, probably would quit her job even.


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## Danielle_E. (Jan 23, 2009)

I am sure Sonya there are others like your friend as well that don't have the money for health insurance, I think that is what this all evolved from, the discussion earlier about universal health care, but I know there are many others that don't have horses and truly don't feel entitled to have any "luxuries" in their lives and they still can't afford the premiums for healthcare. It's just mind boggling for those what don't live in the U.S. to see the amount of $$ spent by your government on other things such as "wars", "bailouts" etc. and yet many U.S. citizens go without something so basic as health care. Health care shouldn't be a luxury in a wealthy westernized country like the U.S.A. is all I am saying. I can see if would be an impossibility though in an impoverished country.

I searched to see what countries have some kind of health care system and this is what I found:



> Afghanistan, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq*, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom


I am hoping that your President will come up with a workable health care system that will ensure that each man, woman and child have some form of health coverage when it's needed and do not have to fear losing all their possession or homes to pay for the care.


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## Pepipony (Jan 23, 2009)

I think what infuriates SO many people these days about healthcare and other costs is, the blue collar workers are getting less and less, while the white collar ones are making sure they never do without. They ask for assistance from the government for their failing companies yet give themselves bonuses or redo their offices while cutting jobs and benefits for the peons under them. The banking industry is taking taking taking, with no real rules. Yet the auto companies are expecting to cut pay for their hourlys even though, their pay is only 3% of the cost of business. Its wrong how the system is now.


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## Charlene (Jan 23, 2009)

president obama's health care plan is something i am particularly interested. had gary been able to afford the outrageous cost of health insurance, he would be alive today because his cancer would have been diagnosed sooner than stage 4.

don't even get me started on this subject!!! we need a smiley that looks "furious"!!


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## Sonya (Jan 23, 2009)

Living in MI I have followed GM's demise...this state heavily relies on the auto industry as far as the economy goes. No doubt that the auto industry has made serious mistakes. Did you know that UAW emplyees makes over $70/hr. We are not talking executives here...this is the worker in the assembly line...this does include their benefits also...but still how many people do you know with little to no college education make that kind of $?. There pensions are based on that pay rate...if you think about it no wonder they are in financial difficulty and charge an arm and a leg for a car.


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 23, 2009)

Yes, GM's downfall has to do with the pay of their skilled employees, not the insane amount their executives get or any kind of financial mishandling or not building cars that compete in today's market or a downturn in sales due to the economy and gas prices.

It's those darn unionized laborers!


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## Jill (Jan 23, 2009)

Sonya said:


> Living in MI I have followed GM's demise...this state heavily relies on the auto industry as far as the economy goes. No doubt that the auto industry has made serious mistakes. Did you know that UAW emplyees makes over $70/hr. We are not talking executives here...this is the worker in the assembly line...this does include their benefits also...but still how many people do you know with little to no college education make that kind of $?. There pensions are based on that pay rate...if you think about it no wonder they are in financial difficulty and charge an arm and a leg for a car.


You are absolutely correct, Sonya! Yet of course, it's the comparative handful of overpaid executives that everyone "wants" to blame.


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## Sonya (Jan 23, 2009)

> Yes, GM's downfall has to do with the pay of their skilled employees, not the insane amount their executives get or any kind of financial mishandling or not building cars that compete in today's market or a downturn in sales due to the economy and gas prices.


Their downfall is all of those things you have mentioned...*including *UAW's salaries.


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## Pepipony (Jan 23, 2009)

Sonya said:


> > Yes, GM's downfall has to do with the pay of their skilled employees, not the insane amount their executives get or any kind of financial mishandling or not building cars that compete in today's market or a downturn in sales due to the economy and gas prices.
> 
> 
> Their downfall is all of those things you have mentioned...*including *UAW's salaries.



Per GM , all of their UAW employees ( including retirees) expense is only .03% of their entire yearly financial outlay. I do think the other .97% amounts to just a tad more dontcha think? I wonder what the white collar expenses are? Of course that isnt ever exposed. Bet its a little more than .03% eh?


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## susanne (Jan 23, 2009)

I tend to think Big Auto's problem has been not so much anybody's salaries, benefits or bonuses, but more their refusal to recognize that people don't want the big gas guzzlers they push on us.

Instead of taking the gas crisis of the 70s as a warning to start working on alternative fuels, they just continued on their merry way, figuring they could bully us into buying "any color, so long as it is black." Now every auto dealership (those that are still afloat, that is) are filled with enormous trucks that cannot be sold.

Even those who would have like to buy American choked on being told what we wanted and turned to the imports. (Actually, I shouldn't say "we," as Keith and I own an ancient GMC pickup and an elderly Ford van...just not new ones, so I guess we're unAmerican...)

The spectacle of the Big Auto CEOs travelling in private jets to go beg for a financial bailout was just one more example of just how out of touch they are with the public.

Of course, they are in bed with Big Oil, so why should they change even if it would reduce foreign petroleum dependence and aid national security? Even funnier when you think of other connections to Big Oil...


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## LowriseMinis (Jan 23, 2009)

Are the employee salaries an expense? Sure they are. I find it telling when instead of pointing out the follies of GM and other big automakers-poor planning, inability to keep up with the market, massive CEO salaries and so on...the first thing some people choose to go after is the salary of the average worker. So...

If you work a low wage job and need assistance, suddenly you're getting a handout. Shame on you. You need to be responsible for bettering your position, not relying on the government!

If you work a well-paid job and you make 'too much', suddenly you're at fault for the troubles of the company you work for. Shame on you! You need to tell your union to negotiate for LESS pay.


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## Sonya (Jan 23, 2009)

I don't think anyone disputed the fact that GM execs are overpaid or the company is poorly run. The percent of expense that goes to UAWs is regardless of the fact that they are highly overpaid which is the point I was making. Obviously GM's expenses are larger than their income or they would not be in the position they are in. There are thousands upon thousands of UAWs in this state alone, I'm sure there are plenty of execs as well, but not to the extent of the actual worker. Don't get me wrong, I am pro union, I am in a union, but the unions are also part of many problems...asking for ridiculous things that are part of the problem of financial difficulites.



> Posted by Mark Frauenfelder, December 9, 2008 11:00 AM | permalink
> 
> Mark J. Perry (a professor of economics and finance in the School of Management at the Flint campus of the University of Michigan) of Carpe Diem asks why people who make much less than United Auto Workers doing the same kind of work should fork over their taxes to keep them employed.
> 
> [A] UAW assembler earned 91% more in monetary wages than the average worker in the manufacturing sector, and a UAW electrician earned 123% more in wages than the average manufacturing worker.


Here is the site that the above came from, it also has a chart comparing the salaries:

Chart of UAW compensation compared to manufacturing average

Here is another interesting article regarding the UAW (and where some bailout money will be going):

The bottomless UAW money pit

When I first moved to MI my husband and I were renting a house. The owner/landlord was a GM employee. He would stop by often to get things from his storage shed. When we asked if he was on vacation (during working hours), he proceded to tell us about how things work at GM...UAWs would take turn punching each other in and many would not even show up for work...sometimes days at a time and the local union helped organize these schemes. The place was so big with so many employees there was no real way to keep track of who was there and who wasn't, there was not enough management in place and even some of those that were there were part of the schemes. He even worked overtime like this. He said on the average he was only actually at work 20-25 hrs a week but was getting paid for 60...his co-workers would punch him in and then he would do the same for them. This was a few years ago, hopefully there is a system in place where that doesn't happen anymore.

It is not only companies and execs/white collar that are greedy and corrupt these days....it is also unions and workers too. Everyone wants paid for doing nothing.


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