# I am Shocked,



## Becky (Dec 20, 2006)

I AM FURIOUS!!!!

Would you look at this? This is what I am hearing from others this afternoon. An organization of the rich, by the rich, for the rich! And if AMHA doesn't bow to their wishes they will form their own registry ... in effect trying to DESTROY AMHA.

Many of these people are on committees and even chair persons of committies which are supposed to be running AMHA. No wonder AMHA is having some problems now! These people have cheated us all by working on this in secret while pretending to be supporting AMHA! They publicly state they have been working on this for a YEAR!

This is hurting me! AMHA is MY organization and you are undermining it and my miniature horse business.

If ever there was a time for the 'little people' to be heard NOW IS THE TIME! Stand up and demand that these people resign their positions with AMHA immediately! Volunteer your time if you can! At least write your director a letter expressing your support of our organization.....AMHA!

----- Original Message -----

From: Martha Hickham

Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 10:59 AM

Subject: From El Rancho Loco

Hello everyone....

I wanted to let all of you know what we have been working on for the past several months. It's hard to believe that it's actually coming to pass.

We are extremely excited about the future of IAMHA, and hope each of you will participate in the fun.

We were fortunate enough to secure a vendor spot at the Houston Livestock And Rodeo, and plan a future "fun" show with money prizes later this year.

Please check the web site periodically, as we will be updating often.

Thank you,

Martha[/b]

*News Release 12/20/2006*

International American Miniature Horse Alliance

For Immediate Release

HOUSTON, Texas - 20 December, 2006 - IAMHAÂ®, dba, as the International American Miniature Horse Alliance, today launched their operation based near Houston, Texas, giving the equine world access to outstanding Marketing and Information for owners, enthusiasts and American Miniature Horse aficionados.

IAMHA today opened access to the online information portal (www.iamha.net) where comprehensive information is available for American Miniature Horses worldwide. IAMHA is a Texas based LLC that will dramatically impact the world of the American Miniature Horse for the better.

We pledge to provide venues for all American Miniature Horse lovers to display their horses win cash prizes and develop life long fun relationships. We will share the collective American Miniature Horse expertise represented by our members. Members will be available to quickly and conveniently share information with the American Miniature Horse community. Additionally they will strive to provide answers and support to perplexing questions from new or old owners of the American Miniature Horse. We will provide support for horse lovers with all levels of experience and for all sized operations. One main area of focus will be a greater inclusion and support for American Miniature Horse lovers who reside outside the United States.

The group will be attending various stock show venues such as the Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo and the Ft. Worth Live Stock & Rodeo in 2007 as exhibitors with displays and live examples of American Miniature Horses and their foals. Additionally in 2007 they are planning seminars, super shows for all miniature horses exclusively with thousands of dollars worth of prize money and gifts, auctions and other educational venues for the American Miniature Horse community.

â€œWeâ€™re thrilled to bring launch the IAMHA and the online capabilities to our fellow lovers of the American Miniature Horse, which is recognized as the most desirable miniature horse worldwide,â€ said John Cherry, President of IAMHA. â€œOur founding member group has an American Miniature Horse herd inventory valued at more than $5M and includes what is believed to be the largest group of Champion American Miniature Horses ever assembled! We also have the most comprehensive collection of breeding stallion bloodlines in the world.

Many of our Founding Members have played a critical role in establishing the current American Miniature Horse community and now want to ignite a revolution that has a global scope. Today, our members continue to lead the industry in breeding, training, exhibiting show horses and selling quality miniature horses. We welcome all lovers of the American Miniature Horse to explore and join our revolution.

Press Contacts:

John Cherry or Kenny Goodsell. Offices at 13449 F.M. 1762, Santa Fe, Texas.

Office number is (409) 316 2045. Fax Number is (409) 316 2292. NOTE TO EDITORS: For additional information visit IAMHAâ€™s website www.iamha.net, or call IAMHAâ€™s Media Helpline at (409) 316 2045.

IAMHA, LLC

DBA International American Miniature Horse Alliance

13449 F.M. 1764

Santa Fe Texas 77519

(409) 316 2045

*December 20, 2006*

Today we are lunching a new focus group (International American Miniature Horse Alliance) and advertising campaign to promote the â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ world wide.

It is with a great deal of anticipation for great things in the coming years that we are releasing our web site www.iamha.net , our press release and a comprehensive report entitled â€œThe State of the American Miniature Horse Industryâ€ as it pertains to AMHA to all horse lovers that we have had contact with over the years.

With over a year in preparation we have looked at many aspects of the American Miniature Horse and have to put forth an aggressive agenda of exhibitions at major venues thru out the USA, Super Shows with cash money and prizes as versus ribbons and trophies, educational seminars and advisory papers to both registries to address problems we see within the current American Miniature Horse community.

This email and letter is being sent to you as a valued member of that community and any input you may have is welcomed. Feel free to contact us at [email protected]

Sincerely Yours

John W. Cherry

President IAMHA

*The State of the American Miniature Horse Industry*

Developed and presented December 20, 2006 by the

IAMHA LLC. www.iamha.net

INTRODUCTION

Based upon in depth discussions and numerous observations, it was agreed there is a significant need for the formation of the IAMHA DBA as the International American Miniature Horse Alliance (IAMHA). Our concept is to create a co-operative entity for breeders and owners of American Miniature Horses to use their collective efforts and purchasing power to seek and improve new methods for the advertising, marketing and promotion of their horses.

Through a marketing co-operative, the ability to reach new, diversified audiences can be accomplished much easier than through the single efforts of a breeder/owner. It reflects on the phrase, â€œ...there is power in numbers.â€

The purpose of the IAMHA is to attract new national and international audiences to the American Miniature Horse by closely following the â€œMission Statementâ€ of the IAMHA.

The Mission Statement for IAMHA is:

MISSION STATEMENT

To provide beneficial services for â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ Owners that enhances and encourages â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ ownership and participation.

To develop educational programs, exhibition venues and marketing abilities that will position the â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ as a desirable entity in the equine industry.

To generate growth of â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ ownership via the marketing, promotion, advertising and publicity of the breed.

To serve as an advisory group to the current registries for the â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ in order to assist those registries becoming truly reflective of the current state of the â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ in the equine industry.

To increase, through the activities of the organization, increase the value of the â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ for all owners of the breed.

To attempt to enrich the â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ experience for all owners of the breed.

IAMHA GOALS

With a united, coordinated effort the IAMHA will work to achieve the following goals:

1. Develop a National and International Marketing Strategy

2. Work with American Miniature Horse Association (AMHA) to maintain a strong, viable organization.

3. Prioritize advertising, marketing and promotion initiatives for implementation

4. In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry, create an organization/registry with the mission and structure to protect all current investments, and lead the breed without personal bias.

To accomplish these goals and to sustain the future of the American Miniature Horse, it is imperative for AMHA to be financially strong and organizationally responsive. Without a sound, successful breed association, the value of the American Miniature Horse breed will be diminished, which will discourage people from participating in all phases of Miniature Horse ownership. Therefore, working with the American Miniature Horse Association is critical.

The IAMHA will be less encumbered than the AMHA, due to its management and structure, allowing the IAMHA the freedom and flexibility to address issues with immediate decisions and ongoing continuity. Through the IAMHA the priorities for funding can be addressed and a partnership teamed with AMHA to accomplish mutual interests.

IAMHA Current Status

The International American Miniature Horse Alliance is comprised of AMHA and American Miniature Horse Registry (AMHR) member-owners who have been, and continue to be strong supporters of the goals and purposes of primarily AMHA, but also AMHR. This work product is focused on AMHA and there will be a future update with a stronger focus on AMHR. IAMHA recognizes the importance of AMHA and its foundation for preserving and maintaining the pedigrees of Miniature Horses, while working to promote the breed. Therefore, it must be understood the IAMHA is not seeking to work in opposition to AMHA, quite the contrary, the IAMHA desires to work beyond the current capacities and capabilities of AMHA to advertise, market and promote the American Miniature Horse.

AMHA Current Status

The American Miniature Horse Association has been the most respected Miniature Horse associations in the world. When foreign breeders looked to the United States, they looked to AMHA. Those members from within North America as well as foreign breeders looked to the AMHA for guidance, strength and leadership. The AMHA led the way by placing an emphasis on pedigrees of quality with known and traceable ancestors, re-enforced with verification through blood typing and later DNA. AMHA set the global standard for the breed, The American Miniature Horse.

In recent years, it has become known there are many issues which have weakened the AMHA. The reason and motivation for these issues is not nearly as important as the fact of where they have led or the path these issues have forced the organization to take.

Currently, the AMHA is experiencing serious declines in:

All levels of annual membership

Annual foal registrations

Numbers of approved horse shows

Numbers of horse show competitors/exhibitors

Any of these individually would be symptomatic of a potential problem; however, when these declining statistics are combined the impact is very, very significant on the future stability of the organization. Each of these areas represents significant revenue generating centers within the scope of breed association business, all functioning below the standards of previous years.

All of these add up to fact the AMHA is weakening as a business entity, losing momentum, and reducing its ability to grow and sustain growth of the breed.

Strategic Planning Impact upon AMHAâ€™s Status

While members of the IAMHA are initiating the early stages of strategic market planning, the IAMHA cannot ignore these significant declines within AMHA. As the IAMHA implements its activities, it believes it is very important that the new members and new owners of the American Miniature Horse must be welcomed into a financially secure, user friendly, professional, growing organization. Therefore, the IAMHA would like to offer the following recommendations to the AMHA, through members of its Executive Committee for consideration, resolution and implementation.

The areas which the IAMHA feels need addressing are divided by primary areas of activity within the AMHA. What is important about these recommendations is the fact that they are derived from external perceptions of the AMHAâ€™s operations and management as it serves the membership. These are not conducted through an actual audit of procedures, but rather through responses to services being provided by the AMHA. Information that comes from these external sources is as important as that identified by any internal management audits.

Breed Registry

The foundation of all breed associations is the maintenance of an accurate studbook formed by proper registration procedures. The authenticity of an accurate certificate of registration makes the difference in a horseâ€™s value, to say nothing about the importance in the preservation and perpetuation of the breed. The single most important work center within the AMHA is the breed registry, because without a studbook, all else has no reason to exist.

Therefore, the AMHA needs to address the following:

1. Review its practices and procedures to improve turn-around time for the processing of foal registrations and transfers of recorded ownership.

2. Institute online services to expedite the need for labor intensive uploading of data such as stallion reports, purchase of DNA kits, and renewal of annual memberships.

3. Develop a system and standards to accept digital photographs of horses for registration.

4. Review all documents and forms to enhance their â€˜user friendlinessâ€.

5. Improve the communication and responsiveness to international breeders and owners such as producing forms in various languages, i.e. Danish, Dutch, French and German.

6. Publish monthly statistics in the MHW on foal registrations, transfers of recorded ownership and membership.

7. Create classifications for horses over 34 inches in height to eliminate the disposability of foals, and thereby increase the potential revenue, i.e. 34â€ and under; over 34-38â€ with labeling classifications as such as foundation horse, miniature horse or some similar designation.

8. Eliminate the hardship registration due to sufficient numbers of horses.

9. Provide the service of creating the equine passport currently required for all horses in Europe.

Approved Shows

The horse shows have become the primary use and center for participation of the Miniature Horse by the AMHA members. Therefore, it is imperative that the AMHA place an emphasis on quality management and operations of the activities associated with the Miniature Horse shows. Simply stated, without a flourishing, exciting horse show system, the demand for horses and their monetary values along with the participation by members will continue to decline.

Therefore, the IAMHA makes the following recommendations:

1. Establish a separate membership category for those who participate in horse shows for the purpose of supporting the related activities and services.

2. Standardize the horse show software used by all AMHA approved horse shows to reduce and eliminate the need for manual uploading of show results and therefore increase the available access via the internet.

3. Conduct a financial analysis of the costs and fees paid by exhibitors at all AMHA managed events and AMHA approved horse shows to determine average costs for participation in an event, including stall costs, entry fees, judges expenses, facility costs, etc in order to standardize as much as possible the cost of participation.

4. Develop methods to encourage youth participation in horse shows through support with 4-H and FFA while considering the placement of youth classes at a time and day more easily accessible for youth. Currently youth attending AMHA shows can not get excused absences because AMHA is not approved by the national 4-H organization.

5. Review and restructure the qualification process of regional and world shows, to encourage the participation while supporting the â€˜grass rootsâ€™ shows. Such things as mandatory exhibiting under 8 judges and using that prerequisite as versus points needed to qualify for nationals.

6. Review the distribution of approved shows, and then design a method to encourage and support the sanctioning of local shows in those areas, either through existing shows with other breeds, coordination with fairs and other events to initiate the shows.

7. Develop revised rules for protest of classes after the conclusion of that class and to be limited by a specific time period for filing.

8. Develop new activity classes for all ages of exhibitors, such as long reining, lunge-line, fault and out jumping, best movement, etc.

9. Develop a series of regional educational clinics/seminars for exhibitors to enhance their showing of horses.

10. Use standardized â€˜wicketsâ€™ to measure horses instead of the current system due to the great variation in deviations for measuring accurately, and adopt the top of the withers as the standard for height measurement. Track and publish publicly the measured height of every horse at every show.

11. Move forward with the education and licensing of horse show stewards.

Measurement of Height

Secondary to the accuracy of a breed registry/studbook, is the measurement of horses. The measurement of horses is one of the important qualifications for registration and maintaining of the AMHA registry. Great efforts have been made to accurately measure and properly record the height measurements of all horses for registration and exhibition.

Standardizing the measuring device and the measuring procedure is vital to the continuation of a breed/height registry. The current policies and procedures for measurement do not conform to other breed standards, international standards and customs, and therefore create a problem for the international and domestic marketing of horses. Implement item 10 in the Approved Show section.

Judges

As horse show judges are the backbone of the horse show system and the selection of horses, it is imperative that the licensing and oversight process be improved significantly.

1. Provide a clarification on the ideal American Miniature Horse, using visual images of the acceptable types of horses for a guide to judges and horse show exhibitors.

2. Define with visual models the acceptable standards of movement for the American Miniature Horse, making certain there is sufficient emphasis on correct athletic movement.

3. Review the method under which judges are selected for the Regional and National shows.

4. Provide for an independent selection of judges for all AMHA sanctioned horse shows to provide for reasonable rotation and use of sanctioned judges.

5. Initiate a judgeâ€™s oversight process whereby the judges are monitored with reports filed on their overall performance, including strengths and weaknesses.

6. Review the process of permitting American Miniature Horse Trainers to obtain judgeâ€™s licenses, as the perception is this creates unfair competition.

7. Continue to educate, re-educate and license international judges without the restriction to judge only outside of the United States.

Miniature Horse World

The Miniature Horse World (MHW) is the â€˜showcaseâ€™ of the breed from which the image and perceptions of the breed are created. It is imperative the MHW be used to educate the membership while providing the breeders, owners and enthusiasts a focal point to communicate everything from advertising to important facts and information about the breed.

1. Review the costs for production of the magazine to provide the least costs to the membership for advertising, thereby encouraging participation as advertisers.

2. Create more departments within the magazine with highlights on different regions, international relations, trainersâ€™ tips, latest on farrier and veterinary news, and more information based or â€œHow Toâ€ articles.

International Relations

The area of International Relations is complex, yet critical to the American Miniature Horse Industry. We have conducted significant studies in this area and are pleased to offer these recommendations.

1. Establish a recognized association for each foreign country from which satellite-regional clubs can be associated/affiliated.

2. Continue to support the education and licensing of international judges for the sole purpose of economically supporting foreign horse shows.

3. Standardize the height measurement so that horses being sold from the United States will be compliant with all other countries of the world i.e.: top of the withers.

4. Form a functioning international advisory committee to review all changes with the AMHA, and how they would affect their respective countries.

5. Re-define the role of the international director to that of a person with voting rights and privileges.

Organizational Leadership and Structure

Granted the foundation of a breed association is its breed registry/studbook; however, its function and success are dependent upon organizational structure and individual leadership. Over the years, the AMHA has deviated from one form of leadership and organizational structure to another, not always following their bylaws.

For an organization to be strong and address the issues for the future, the leadership of the organization must demonstrate knowledge and skills in putting the breed first. The AMHA needs to be operated as a business, a business for the gain of the American Miniature Horse and not individuals.

Therefore, it is imperative that the current structure of the AMHA be reviewed, and compared to successful breed associations. In doing so, it will become apparent there is a significant need to develop continuity in leadership and organizational operational standards between the elected membership and paid AMHA leadership staff.

AMHA is among the few breed organizations which attempts to govern an international organization with day-to-day oversight by volunteer leadership. This has proven, and continues to prove itself to be unsuccessful.

Suggestions for these recommended organizational changes can be furnished to AMHA upon request.

In conclusion, the IAMHA believes that it is imperative that both registries must continually increase their member responsiveness in order to encourage increased ownership of the American Miniature Horse and to increase the participation of current owners of the American Miniature Horse. We believe that in order to truly become member responsive the above suggestions and/or changes should be implemented as soon as is possible. Thus communicating to the equine community that AMHA and AMHR registries of the American Miniature Horse are examples of modern upwardly mobile members of the equine community, further creating an atmosphere that is conducive to increasing the desirability of the â€œAmerican Miniature Horseâ€ as a breed both in the USA and abroad.

*Mr Mike Want *

AMHA

In Re: IAMHA Formation and AMHA Position Letter

Mike,

I am writing this letter and enclosing some written materials to give you, the BOD of AMHA and all committee chairpersons of AMHA a heads up as to what we are doing with IAMHA.

As you know we have made several attempts to get this material to you in a face to face meeting with the E board which for one reason or another has been delayed or cancelled. So we are moving forward with our groups goals as stated in our â€œMission Statementâ€ without the meeting. You are more than welcome to go to our web site at www.iamha.net to view all the information that will be released to the miniature horse industry and media sources around the country as of December 20, 2006.

You also in earlier phone conversations with myself and Kenny Goodsell had stated that if you were made aware of problems real or perceived within AMHA, you would consider them and then refer for action those items that you thought were worthy of consideration by your committees for possible action at the winter meeting of AMHA. Therefore there is a pretty long laundry list enclosed with our thoughts and concerns on matters pertaining to the current status of AMHA.

As far as IAMHA plans are concerned , we will be attending as vendors the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, the Fort Worth Livestock Show and Rodeo to promote the American Miniature Horse with other venues being added later in the coming year of 2007. Additionally we plan on putting on several what we call â€œSuper Fun Expoâ€™sâ€ which will include a show with over $20,000.00 worth of prize money and tack being given out at each show, a series of educational seminars and a sale on several weekends throughout the nation.

If you or any of your other board/committee people should have any questions, please let me know and I will do my best to get you the proper answers promptly.

Sincerely,

John W. Cherry

President IAMHA

13449 F.M. 1764 Santa Fe Texas 77510 Office (409) 316 2045

www.IAHMA.com Fax (409) 316 2292


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## Warpony (Dec 20, 2006)

I found this on their website:



> IAMHA GOALS
> With a united, coordinated effort the IAMHA will work to achieve the following goals:
> 
> 1. Develop a National and International Marketing Strategy
> ...


I'm kind of confused as to what they are really trying to do here. are they trying to help AMHA or take over for AMHA?

Interesting.


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## Jill (Dec 20, 2006)

I don't understand why it's "bad" if someone wants to start a new registry if they are not getting what they feel they need from an existing registry...

Not trying to argue and have "a lot" on my mind right now so it's for sure possible I'm missing something big, but I'm not sure why this is wrong.

Also, didn't AMHA form when a group of AMHR (Board of Director?) members became disatisfied and wanted to start "their own thing" (which became AMHA)?

Kind of confused -- is IAMHA to be a registry, or is it to be a regulatory authority? or what?

Can someone give me the Reader's Digest version?


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## Frankie (Dec 20, 2006)

I do hope some of those whose emails I read, are able to talk here and say exactly what is going on. I do know a few of those names in the email list are members here.


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## lvponies (Dec 20, 2006)

WOW!!! Who knew??? :no:


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Dec 20, 2006)

Ok I really don't mean this to come off the wrong way but didnt AMHA start out the same way? basically people who were not so happy with things in AMHR and having different visions so leaving one to start another? That ended up ok and in fact helping the Miniature Horse breed as a whole in alot of HUGE ways.

Many registries have come and gone and those few have survived have done good (and bad) Frankly this would be a registry I would keep an eye on and if they chose to have there shows in areas out here like ID or near by where there is a serious lack of any breed shows you can bet I would be there with bells on!

I think at some point the registrys really do need to look seriously at there customer service issues, actually address the mistakes of the past instead of trying to sweep them under the rug with a lets move forward answer

Look at there programs and where they are spending a majority of there money and go from there.

I would think some invovled and truly knowing the WHOLE story in the mistakes and issues AMHA had would be very much greatly suited to run a registry and not make those mistakes to learn from them.

Who knows it may be a fly by night one and it may have a wonderful positive impact on the industry just as AMHA did since it's start.


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## Warpony (Dec 20, 2006)

I also found this on their site (emphasis is mine, just to show what I am pointing to):



> The International American Miniature Horse Alliance is comprised of AMHA and American Miniature Horse Registry (AMHR) member-owners who have been, and continue to be strong supporters of the goals and purposes of primarily AMHA, but also AMHR. This work product is focused on AMHA and there will be a future update with a stronger focus on AMHR. IAMHA recognizes the importance of AMHA and its foundation for preserving and maintaining the pedigrees of Miniature Horses, while working to promote the breed. Therefore, _it must be understood *the IAMHA is not seeking to work in opposition to AMHA*, quite the contrary, the IAMHA desires to work beyond the current capacities and capabilities of AMHA to advertise, market and promote the American Miniature Horse._


I shall be very interested in seeing how this plays out in the future and i am reserving all judgement until i see and hear a lot more about this.


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## MiniHoofBeats (Dec 20, 2006)

I think the IAMHA is a great idea...look at how many of us have been complaining about AMHA and how it lacks in certain departments - hardshipping and Registration for one. IAMHA is basically putting AMHA's problems in its face instead of hiding away, maybe now AMHA will pull together and start listening to some of its members if it wants to continue.

If IAMHA can provide everything AMHA has, but better, faster, and at less cost...i'm all for it!

The only part I don't agree with is making an A division for over 34". I highly respect AMHA because of the height limit rule, take that away and how is AMHA any better or different than AMHR?


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## jlh (Dec 20, 2006)

the way I'm reading this...

1. there are actually only three names listed as member of IAMHA, the long email list is a forward to alert a number of people to the press release.

2. other than those three names, the website gives NO info on who is a member. or who is funding it.

my conclusion is that this for right now, is nothing more than a privately financed club. all of your local clubs (given the funding) could provide any of the services listed - after all their events calendar is a booth a a livestock show and a fun show. even when we're not in full gear, our local club does more than that, on next to no money, and have members who have very high-profile herds.

after all, if you want to talk about international recognition of the miniature horse, look no farther than this webpage.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Dec 20, 2006)

Becky said:


> IIf ever there was a time for the 'little people' to be heard NOW IS THE TIME! Stand up and demand that


Actually Becky not to be rude but no the time is not now when there might be some real reasons to really make AMHA stand up and take notice

The time for the little person to be heard has long since passed it should have been done years ago IMO and has been asked to happen time and time again and ironically I only hear hey lets listen to the little people stand up and protect and fight for your registry when there is a true and serious threat to the registry never when they think all is fine and dandy


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## anita (Dec 20, 2006)

My understanding is IAMHA is a marketing commitee to promote The American Miniature Horse International.

What wrong with that?

Anita


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## Becky (Dec 20, 2006)

I have _no problem _ with anybody starting their own organization to promote miniature horses or their own registry for that matter. What I do have a problem with is the members of AMHA who are on the AMHA Board or AMHA Committees that are supposed to be working for AMHA when in actuality they have been organizing another group to take over 'just in case' AMHA fails. This just seems wrong to me.


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## Littleum (Dec 20, 2006)

Becky said:


> I have _no problem _ with anybody starting their own organization to promote miniature horses or their own registry for that matter. What I do have a problem with is the members of AMHA who are on the AMHA Board or AMHA Committees that are supposed to be working for AMHA when in actuality they have been organizing another group to take over 'just in case' AMHA fails. This just seems wrong to me.


Indeed. In the very least, it just looks bad...


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## RockRiverTiff (Dec 20, 2006)

It looks to me like a collective group of dissatisfied AMHA members and opportunists. You'll notice they mention they are comprised of prominent members of AMHA and AMHR, and that they do not give greater importance to either registry, but AMHA is the only one they target with their suggested improvements, and AMHA is the one they essentially threaten to replace:



> In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry, create an organization/registry with the mission and structure to protect all current investments, and lead the breed without personal bias.


What "current investments" do you suppose they're talking about? I can only assume that if they _are_ all prominent breeders, it's _their_ investments they're trying to protect, and while I certainly understand that, I think that makes doing it without personal bias impossible.

To be fair, their "Organizational Leadership and Structure" section on the State of the Industry page sounds an awful lot like the complaints that were being made on the AMHS threads, but if changes are to be made, I agree with Becky that they need to be made by the membership. A self-elected board hardly seems like an improvement.

I'll be watching this with interest.


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## Loess Hills (Dec 20, 2006)

I find this all totally confusing!




:



:


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## Reble (Dec 20, 2006)

Becky said:


> I have _no problem _ with anybody starting their own organization to promote miniature horses or their own registry for that matter. What I do have a problem with is the members of AMHA who are on the AMHA Board or AMHA Committees that are supposed to be working for AMHA when in actuality they have been organizing another group to take over 'just in case' AMHA fails. This just seems wrong to me.


Do not know the whole story 




: Always someone lurking in the back ground.

Everyone can say it is better, but do we know that?

Just like any business, new management can destroy what the original dream was suppose to be.

I do agree with you that the AMHA Committees that are supposed to be working for AMHA when in actuality they have been organizing another group to take over 'just in case' AMHA fails.

Not very honest, so who says the new organization is going to be.... :new_shocked:

Becky what goes around comes around.

Sounds like this is your baby and hurts to see someone else try to destroy it.

I



: for what is best for this Registry.


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## brookhaven (Dec 20, 2006)

While the need for yet another registry eludes me, IAMHA does address and have an impressive list of changes that should be considered and would definitely make AMHA a more business-run organization. It appears from the correspondence that AMHA did not want to meet with IAMHA to even discuss the matters and now are receiving the "laundry list." That speaks volumes about how AMHA does/does not want to listen to their members. I anxiously await further communications!!! It could just be the kick in the butt that AMHA needs!!!


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

Folks I am sorry so many of you are a bit confused. Let me make a point blank statement. *IAMHA is not and has no desire to be a registry in competition with AMHA or AMHR.* We are a focus group that thinks though that we can do a better job presenting our product "The American Miniature Horse" to the general public and the rest of the equine world. Additionally we think we can do a better job of providing educational and fun venues for new and established mini owners alike.

We are committed members of AMHA & AMHR and are using our own money to exhibit at stock show & equine venues around the country to expose the "American Miniature Horse" to the general public.

We first addressed the problems surrounding AMHA, but AMHR is next on the list as far as producing suggestions to them on the problems we see as an interested focus group. This is not meant to be devisive, but rather helpful in identifying the problems, along with possible solutions.

It is our intention to also put on some unsanctioned shows in different parts of the country with huge prize money ( the first show it looks like $15 - 30,000) pools much the way that the cutting horse people and the reigning horse people do with AQHA.

They are part of the registry and support it completely, but have a set of competitions ie: futurities and shows for folks to participate in.

Additionally, we intend to put on educational seminars about grooming, showing and other aspects of miniature horse ownership that should be helpful to anyone that attends for current owners and prospective new owners.

I even had an offer from a carded miniature horse judge today to put on a seminar about the show ring, both driving and halter from the judges stand point. Hopefully we can make that work into the schedule and budget for the coming year.

In any case we are not about trying to replace or even damage either one of the registries, quite the contrary we want them to remain healthy and growing. Which we hope to help them do by making suggestions about things they need to change for everyone's (large farm, small farm and individuals) benefit.

Bottom line we are in existance for one purpose to promote ownership of the "American Miniature Horse".

If anyone has particular needs or questions do not hesitate to contact me.

John Cherry

President IAMHA


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## kaykay (Dec 20, 2006)

i think this is both good and bad. the bad is it implies that amha may not make it financially which is what i have feared for a couple years now. Its so confusing as ronnie was just here posting that membership is not declining yet these people readily admit it is. And when i read the financial report on the amha site it also conceeds that registrations, memberships and show attendance is down.

To ME everything they have outlined is all good and shows a group of forward thinking people that are devoted to miniature horses.

Anyone remember the emails we got early in the year about an online group for amha members to get info?? I got it (i was still a member for a few months in 2006) but nothing has ever been posted on it.

Its time for amha to come forward and tell everyone what the financial picture really is.

John i posted while you were posting so i am editing my post since you said this is not going to be another registry.

*You know this is all so confusing that it makes ones head hurt. I give up. I feel like there is so much going on and so many hidden agendas that you just cant even keep up with it all anymore. The more I know, the more i dont even WANT to know*

Kay


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Dec 20, 2006)

I am curious

so you are not wanting to be a registry so to speak but do want to be an association that puts on events and shows only?

would these events and shows be open to all horses no matter what the registry they belong to is?

you would keep a data base of points ect or they are one time type of things with money and prizes offered?

Would these shows and clinics be in parts of the country that are sorely lacking in functions from either one of the registires instead of a place that has tons of them already?

Will you be accepting memberships or is this at the time a closed membership association ?

You mentioned a 34-38 division for your events and shows is this going to be just to include the R reg B horses as well or a seperate place to keep pedigrees on all horses?


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

Kay Kay,

thanks for that. I agree with you that AMHA has sent several different messages to all of us, with the way things are reported in the financial reports and then the vocalizations from the e board members. I heard from Tom Oconnel today and he made the statement that this was not true and I am sending him an email in a few minutes to get him to clarify what he meant so as not to get bad data or information out there in the public domain.

I do think though whatever the case is as far as numbers that there is indeed a large amount of improvement that can be achieved in letting folks in the general public and also the other parts of the equine community about our great little horses. That is exactly what we intend to do, along with all the other things I mentioned above.

We would love to see AMHA & AMHR become the largest two equine registries in the country and we intend to do our part in that growth by attracting new folks in and keepng the existing ones involved in the industry as much as we can. This will benefit everyone in the industry.

John Cherry

President IAMHA


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## Charlotte (Dec 20, 2006)

Well, I'll tell you what really bothers me about this.

Compare the list of officers of this group (from their web site) with the list of AMHA committee members and committee chair persons (from the AMHA web site).

Now somewhere in all their stuff it says they've been working on this for a year. So if they were working on this organization for a year, who was working on the business of AMHA??????

AMHA has not had a very good year. Is there just the *slightest* possibility that these folks have been directing their attention somewhere besides AMHA?

I have to tell you, as a member of AMHA I feel cheated. I am very disappointed in anyone who will sneak around behind my back and pretend to be one thing when they are in fact something entirely different.

I don't have a problem with people forming an organization to promote whatever they want to....some of us did that with the SmallestHorse Group after all!

What I do have a problem with is someone pretending to be working for the betterment of AMHA when in fact they have a hidden agenda. It would have been very simple for those persons to resign their positions with AMHA before beginning work on this new organization and I sincerely hope they do so immediately!

Charlotte


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## Jill (Dec 20, 2006)

Thank you, John!

I appreciate you summarizing what is going on. I feel optimistic and excited about the opportunities it sounds like the IAMHA is out to provide!!!

Looking forward to learning more _(going to the website site now!)_.


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## Reble (Dec 20, 2006)

What I do have a problem with is someone pretending to be working for the betterment of AMHA when in fact they have a hidden agenda. It would have been very simple for those persons to resign their positions with AMHA before beginning work on this new organization and I sincerely hope they do so immediately!

Charlotte

I agree 100%

Starting off being dishonest bothers me. :new_shocked:


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

Lisa,

as it is planned now each show would stand on its own and prize would be awarded at each show. Currently the rules are being written, but I do know that the horses exhibited must be registered in either AMHA or AMHR no horse registry will be allowed under our current set up. We have the first super show that is going to be held here in Texas this coming summer, but we hope to have one on the east coast and on the west coast shortly after that. Additionally the first seminar and audction will be held here in Texas, but subsequent ones will be help in several diffferent locations around the country.

It is one of my personal goals to try and bring some of these functions to the middle part of the country as I beleive there is asevere lack of things to do there. But this has not been approved by the board and finance committee yet.

We will be accepting memberships into the group fairly soon, but first we want to get a comprehensive package of benefits for the members from sponsers etc. Things like discounts on feed, tack etc.

We will not be keeping any pedigrees whatsoever, that is the registries job. We even are probally going to add another division for the stock type horse to show in thier own halter division at the shows. Thereby giving the folks that like that type horse a place to compete only against the same type horse.

John Cherry

IAMHA President


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Dec 20, 2006)

Hmm well it sounds interesting to say the least and I will be watching to see what comes of this.

Of course anything that would bring more shows and clinics to this state or close by surrounding states can only help our breed as a whole.


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## Jill (Dec 20, 2006)

Reading all what John has said, including the post right above, can someone tell me _What's Not To Like?_


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## hill (Dec 20, 2006)

Becky,

I don't underdstand where these folks say they are going to start their own registry, could you help me with that? I have been on their website and it looks like they are very interested in providing ideas to AMHA.

This organization is set up as a business LLC which I believe is still an acceptable practice. Most folks, myself included, want to find a way to have minis, love and enjoy them AND make money. Frankly I commend these folks for thinking AND acting outside the box. This looks like a very well thought out endeavor and given that it is a business it is common practice to develop one's business behind closed doors and then announce it. Looks like that is what has happened.

It is also a common practice for business people to serve on committees of not for profit organizations like AMHA, so once again I don't understand youe objection in that regard. I cannot count the number of times I have heard AMHA members wish for a more business like approach being used in AMHA.

I completely disagree with your referrence to these folks cheating. AGain this is a business structure and the fact thay they have shared so much information seems contrary to your conclusion that these folks are intent on causing harm to AMHA.

I look forward to your response so you can correct my understanding.

Hill

This is hurting me! AMHA is MY organization and you are undermining it and my miniature horse business.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

One other thing I forgot to add and that is all of our members intend on still showing our horses on the local, regional and national level in the coming year. These new fuction will be above and beyond what we all normally do within the registries.

Additionally someone above made some remark about there being AMHA board members in our group and yes there are indeed. When we started to put this group together we looked for the most committed people we could find. A board member for AMHA is a really good place to start looking as they get no pay, little thanks and a lot of work. Just the type folks we want in our group.

They have all been very careful to keep AMHA business separate from our group intentionally.

John Cherry

IAMHA President


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## Little Wee Horse Farm (Dec 20, 2006)

This is a little OT, but does anybody here, besides me, remember the IMHA? International Miniature Horse Association..........The first stallion I bought back in 1991 was triple registered: IMHA, AMHA and AMHR. It didn't hurt him a bit. Or me.

As to the registry du jour, I don't know how many registries miniature horses can support. I would think, if a horse qualifies, it could only help him/her if there are several registries that recognize him/her. Depends, of course, on how much money a person has to spend. No one is talking, I don't think, about forcing people to join or register their horses.

Let's don't forget, right now miniatures can go into Pinto Association, AMHA, AMHR, Gold Seal, World Class, Fallabella. Have I forgotten any? Oh yeah, the other potential new registries mentioned already this week alone. Oh and also belong to ASPC and AMHR both. There's no harm in belonging to one or another or all.

IMHO, unless one registry would rise above them all and attract a tremendous amount of members and their horses, the others have naught to fear. And all the differences over registries that I've seen over the years makes me doubt that would ever happen. Different horses, difference forces.


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## RockRiverTiff (Dec 20, 2006)

First of all--welcome to the board Hill! It's always interesting to see how many lurkers join the forum when big industry topics come up.

Second, I'm glad we now have someone to represent the other side of the story. It's now been confirmed that IAMHA has no intention of starting a registry or competing with AMHA, so could one of the IAMHA members present clear up this statement from the website:



> In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry, create an organization/registry with the mission and structure to protect all current investments, and lead the breed without personal bias.


So is this only in the instance that AMHA ceases to exist entirely, or is its "[failure] to continue to establish and maintain itself" subjective? Also, wouldn't this constitute _some_ intention of starting another registry? And if that one had a B division--as IAMHA's shows intend to--wouldn't that registry then be competing with AMHR?


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## Charlotte (Dec 20, 2006)

> It is also a common practice for business people to serve on committees of not for profit organizations like AMHA, so once again I don't understand your objection in that regard.


Hill, I that was my post. I have no problem with persons serving on committees for not for profit organizations while being involved in other business ventures. What I have a problem with is doing so in secret. How do I know the resources (contacts, ideas of members, etc.) of my organization, AMHA, were not used in the planning of this venture?

Bottom line for me is this should have been up front.

Charlotte


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## Buckskin gal (Dec 20, 2006)

It sounds like someone has been listening to the complaints and instead of complaining been putting some heads together to improve things. Since they aren't another registry and want to be of help to both AMHA and AMHR they just might be the answer to all the problems. One thing about it, I don't want to see

AMHA go down and it sounds like this is a business that may help them do better. Will be watching and listening for more information before I draw any conclusions. Mary


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

As someone said above this is set up as a business and is being run as a business even though we will rpoblaly not make any money at it with the agenda we have on scedule. But with that said, if for any reason AMHA fails, which I personally don't think it will with a little mangement which some on the BOD are trying to do. We would entertain the possibility of opening a registry or something at that time MAYBE.

But to be very blunt, to set up a viable registry it would take about 400 - 500,000.00 and I personally think even though there are problems with both registries that need to be changed. They both do a pretty good job of providing a stud book and registry functions. Why in the daylights would I or any of our members want to sepnd that type money to replicate what we already have.

We would be much wiser to spend our resources to promote the American Miniature Horse attract new folks, provide venues for them and the established owners (large and small) to enjoy that at and educate as many folks as we can about them.

One other thing, if you think about it we have been monitoring this very board to see what is important to you folks and a lot of our suggestiosn to AMHA came form here. Additionally believe it or not we have many of the same concerns.

John Cherry

Cherryville Farms


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## Amy (Dec 20, 2006)

I sincerly hope that this is NOT being financed by AMHA or being approved by their BOD.

We have seen enough money siphoned off to support personal venues & shows (like in Europe a few years ago.)

No wonder Mr. Cherry had so much input on the thread of a new Registry -- he had his own hidden agenda, complete with shows & all, ready to spring on us all. What good are NON - sanctioned shows going to do .

Some of the names on this were on the band wagon big time for the oversized horses of AMHA at the Little King Sale a couple of years ago. I think this has been in the "works ' for much more than a year.

IF AMHA keeps funding these "New, innovative" ideas -- no wonder it MAY have trouble remaining a viable registry. They have had ample chances to turn the ship around.!!

The more I hear, the less I like.


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## *minis* (Dec 20, 2006)

Ever since I have heard about this group, I have been wondering why it is called "International" AMH Alliance? What is the international element about this group? I have not had the time to read everything and anything the group has provided as information, but I did see that you plan a lot of activities within the USA and also all the founding farms are American farms. So are there any plans for the future that will include international activity? If so, which activities and where?

Just wondering.

Carina


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## FoRebel (Dec 20, 2006)

Personally I don't care wether there is another registry or not, as long as there isn't any money from the AMHA or AMHR going to support this new registry. All I have to say is that I am not supporting another registry. I have animals that are registered with the AMHA, AMHR and WCMHR. Those are the three that I support. I am not going to support another registry!!!!

Like I said already, I don't care if there is another registry as long as the money supporting any of the other registries is going to support the new registry!


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## HGFarm (Dec 20, 2006)

I completely agree with Charlotte and Becky- I find this very deceiving. Why would we pay to show at these shows, etc... when I hear we can't even support the shows that AMHA is currently putting on? If they are barely making it financially, wouldn't I want to continue to support the organization rather than shifting my funding somewhere else? What will AMHA get out of it? Even less attendance at shows and less money- thus possibly causing them to fold.

I also am really concerned about the time spent on this, when the same effort could have been put into some committees with AMHA and AMHR, to improve things, create some futurities and shows like this THERE to support what we already have!!

I don't like this at all, and personally, will not support it.

Seems like a HUGE conflict of interest to me, with folks working with AMHA, but putting together something like this to take more money from an already troubled organization.



> But with that said, if for any reason AMHA fails, which I personally don't think it will with a little mangement which some on the BOD are trying to do. We would entertain the possibility of opening a registry or something at that time MAYBE.


I really think this is underhanded and do not see how either registry would benefit whatsoever from this.

I am so troubled by what I am reading here, I can't even really express how I feel, but it makes me ill.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

At this time we have not put together our international agenda completely, contrary to some peoples belief we have only been working on this for less than a year. Some things will just have to be put on the back burners for a while. We did however address to the BOD of AMHA the disparagy of the measuring from here in the USA and Europe and other countries around the world. Additionally we addressed the way international judges have been handled in the past which we think is unfair. We ask for an international passport for horses which would make it easier for horses to be imported into these countries. And several other items I am probally forgetting.

As far as money is concerned we are not affliliated with any registry whatsoever. And do not intend to be. But we are concerned members of AMHA and AMHR, but all funding has been done by our founding members. We also have several corporate sponsers that will be coming on line in the next few months we think, that will help.

Additionally as far as Europe is concerned this was released there today also and we are planning on trying to put on some educational senminars over there hopefull this coming year.

John Cherry

Cherryville farms


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

In answer to the question what does AMHA and AMHR get out of this. It is very simple, if we have activites that people want to come to, they must own a horse that is registered with either AMHA or AMHR. These activities we are planning should create more interest in mini's, thereby create a market for the mini's so many of the smaller farms are having trouble selling according to the posts on this and other groups and therefore increase the number of horses and members in the respective registries.

If you look at the historical data from other breeds such as AQHA, when a group started offering activites such reigning, cutting and just got active in promoting the breed the number of people involved increased as far as membership and number of horse registered.

That is what we are really about and that is marketing the product we all have if you will "The American Miniature Horse", which we think is the most exciting under appreciated breed going today.

John Cherry

IAMHA


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## mininik (Dec 20, 2006)

To me it seems like such a colossal and costly undertaking to create another new association not necessarily to register Miniatures, but in effect to help promote the breed and to "help fix" the problems of the Miniature breed's other associations/registries (AMHA/AMHR). As it sounds, many of the founding members of the IAMHA are already on the boards of the AMHA/AMHR, so why not use your collective power within to promote the breed and work on the problems from there? If an outside association is needed, why hasn't the AMHA joined USEF as the ASPC/AMHR has?


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## spazkat (Dec 20, 2006)

HGFarm said:


> I also am really concerned about the time spent on this, when the same effort could have been put into some committees with AMHA and AMHR, to improve things, create some futurities and shows like this THERE to support what we already have!!
> 
> I don't like this at all, and personally, will not support it.
> 
> Seems like a HUGE conflict of interest to me, with folks working with AMHA, but putting together something like this to take more money from an already troubled organization.


I dont see where the underhanded part comes from. If in the course of doing my job (or volunteer work or whatever) I have ideas on how things could be done better, or ideas on ways to solve problems.. but for one reason or another they arent interested in pursuing them, how is it wrong to then take those ideas and apply them to something else? Example: Im an accountant. If the firm I currently work for is doing a shoddy job and I see clients leaving and in general not happy, and suggestions I make dont get any response, I have no responsibility to then keep my ideas to myself. They do not "own my ideas" if I make the suggestion to them first but they dont make use of them. Many many people have become dissatisfied with their job at some point and started to make plans to go into business for themselves without having any obligation to quit their current position as soon as they begin to make plans.

Most of the issues that this group seems to be addressing are things that Ive seen others on the board complain about for a long time. If the AMHA (or R for that matter) had any immediate intentions of changing how they do things they would have done so in response to your concerns a long time ago. It seems to me that the people who recognize the problems with the current organization and are most familiar with the processes involved are the best suited to creating an organization like this, not traitorous for doing so.


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## Al B (Dec 20, 2006)

John has answered your questions much more thouroughly and eloquently than I ever could. However, here is my story.

About a week and a half ago Susan and I were approached to become a founding member of IAMHA. As many of you have, my initial reaction was that here is a group of people that are attempting to put together a registry to compete with AMHA and subsequently destroy my AMHA. Yes, I say my because those of you that know us know that we put our heart and soul into working for the AMHA. We go to all the local shows, several of the out of town shows, the regional show and the World show; every year. And, we don't go to watch; we participate. We take horses, spend lots of hard earned money (and I can assure you we are not wealthy or elitist, or malcontent). We sweat, work hard and do all of our own training and almost always have at least 1 or 2 kids we are mentoring. We attend board meetings (we are not on the board) and we attend the National meeting. We work on committees and give them our full attention. Making AMHA a better, stronger organization is our goal. It benefits us all. We also attend AMHR shows and are AMHR members and all of our horses are registered both AMHA and AMHR. We intend to continue this endeavor.

After speaking with several members and carefully reading the bylaws we decided to join.

IAMHA is not a registry nor will it ever be.

IAMHA is not in competition with any registry.

IAMHA is not affiliated or supported by any registry.

IAMHA is not an attempt to destroy the AMHA. If I ever thought that I would be gone immediatly.

IAMHA is a group of individuals who, using their own money, intend to promote the American Miniature Horse and in doing so hopefully will increase the membership of both AMHA and AMHR and increase the market for sales; both mine and yours.

Some of you have determined the letter to AMHA to be an "or else" demand. It is not. It is in fact a list of recommendations gleaned from your very comments. Do I agree with all of them? Some more than others but they are only recommendations.

I know some of you see this a only negative and so be it. I can't change your mind. But, I believe the IAMHA can be a viable marketing tool that will help all of us. Give us a chance.


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## skanzler (Dec 20, 2006)

Ok well I have read all the responses and John's come backs.

I have a couple of questions?>????

If you and your group have been working on this organizaiton for a year and have listed the issues that need to be addressed by AMHA and possibly AMHR. And you have several on the BOD at AMHA. Why can you not get together and help to make these things come to play through the right channels? Like attending the meeetings and putting up proposals and then talking with the members and having them vote these new rules, regs or changes into effect. Why do you need a seperate orangization to do this?

My next question is, who is this really benefiting. It seems to me that the only ones that this group will benefit is the ones that have organized it. Because I don't know about anyone else on this thread, but I was never approached to be a part of this organization..... And since the big breeders and big money is located primarily in Texas and this is where the first auctions and shows with the big payouts are being put on, how does that benefit me?????? It seems to me that the only ones that will be making money from all these new people and new markets are those that have the money to put on this big events. I dont' know of any of the small breeders that were asked if we would like to participate in this endeavor or asked if we would like to help to put on seminars. It just seems that we will see the same big names and faces on the tabloids........

I am thinking that the ideas that you bring up with what is wrong with our Registry make sense. I do not see how this organization will change anything, that some organized meetings and member input and backing could not take care of.


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## brookhaven (Dec 20, 2006)

> IAMHA is not a registry nor will it ever be.IAMHA is not in competition with any registry.
> 
> IAMHA is not affiliated or supported by any registry.
> 
> ...


Thank you Al and John, for clarifying things. From the posts, I feel very encouraged by this organization. It appears they have listened to everything we gripe about, have found *viable solutions * and are attempting to make it attractive enough for people to participate and learn...which is essential if ANY registry is to survive and grow. I would go to a Super Show if I thought I might earn some big bucks, points or no points. I would love to see classes such as long lines, lunge line, etc. I'm more and more interested....


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

Folks,

It sounds good that AMHA will make some changes, but the fact is that it is a long and tedious process for them to change even one rule.

It has to go thru committee, the commttee has to make a recomendation to the board and the board has to approve the change. Then it is given to the membership to vote on at the National meeting. If it passes than two years later it goes into effect. The only way around that is to have the president declare it is an emergency. If he did that on all the changes we suggested he would probally get hung.

So we made our recomendations, hope they will inact them and at some later date the suggestions we made will be considered by the members of AMHA.

Let me give you an example, we think horse should be measured at the withers. Some folks agree with that and some do not. Which is fine and I also believe you will get a chance to vote on that sometime in the future at a National meeting, if it passes then two years later it will go into effect unless the emergency ruling is declared.

But in the meantime we as a private group will be putting on shows that will measure at the withers and offering cash prizes like no one has seen in the industry before.

This will be different, but it should be fun and attract some new folks in the industry. And that is why we wanted to be independent, yet involved with AMHA and AMHR.

We want to be nimble, responsive and attentive to the wants and needs of the Miniature Horse community. Not tied down by rules and regulations of a really large organization, many of those rules are so complicated it would take 15 phili. lawyers to understand them.

Mark my words this new group will be active in promoting the American Miniature in any manner we can think of, additionally it should help everyone but a select few that are now involved in the Miniature industry from a fun and also a financial standpoint.

John Cherry

IAMHA


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## disneyhorse (Dec 20, 2006)

This thread is very interesting, and I do love the "industry news" that is often discussed here.

First of all, I never have a problem with new organizations being created, no matter HOW they are created. Organizations often form to fill a niche that the founders feel needs filling.

I commend the founders for having a "peaceful coexistence" platform as that will be crucial.

My only suggestion is that the founders to perhaps... be a little more inclusive of AMHR and other organizations to help avoid negative feelings that it is "against AMHA" and was created to undermine AMHA.

Of course there will ALWAYS be people for and against new organizations... because the existing organizations need to aggressively protect it's own interests. This is what politics is about.

I wish the founders luck, and that they fill some niche. Organizations either thrive or fail according to it's usefulness to the public. Hopefully there is some use for this organization and that they truly try to preserve a peaceful coexistence with the existing Registries and act as good ambassadors for our beloved small equine.

Andrea


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

Oh one other thing, someone ask what good was an un-sanctioned, un-pointed show. Which is only one facet of our agenda.

Very simply, we will be giving out tack and cash instead of trophies, ribbons and points. Again we are not looking to compete with AMHA or AMHR, that is what the sanctioned shows are for.

But it is easier to explain to a newcomer that has been involved in some other organization or has heard about other organizations like the cutting horses that there is prize money to be won. But they have to buy and own a registered AMHR or AMHA horse first. Guess what you could be the one that sells it to that person. Wouldn't that be great.

Additionally I love getting cash in our local futurity classes, it makes it really neat after the show to be able to say "Dinner is on my horses when it goes well".

John Cherry

IAMHA


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## kaykay (Dec 20, 2006)

John

I have always enjoyed your posts. But I cant shake this bad feeling I get reading your website. You guys say one thing but your website says something entirely different. For example the following statements:

In recent years, it has become known there are many issues which have weakened the AMHA. The reason and motivation for these issues is not nearly as important as the fact of where they have led or the path these issues have forced the organization to take.

Currently, the AMHA is experiencing troubling trends (see below) with declines in multiple areas and there is *no noticeable indication that a recovery is solidly in process:*

Now i agree with these statements but I dont see how AMHA is going to appreciate that and be willing to work with your group? And please tell us what you guys know that we dont. Because obviously you know something more then we do lol.

Now al says this group WILL NEVER be a registry but your website says:

In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry, *create an organization/registry *with the mission and structure to protect all current investments, and lead the breed without personal bias.

So I guess this is what troubles me. Posting one thing here on LB, but publishing something else on your website. I just want people to say what they really mean.


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## Belinda (Dec 20, 2006)

JWC sr. said:


> As far as money is concerned we are not affliliated with any registry whatsoever. And do not intend to be. But we are concerned members of AMHA and AMHR, but all funding has been done by our founding members. We also have several corporate sponsers that will be coming on line in the next few months we think, that will help.
> 
> Cherryville farms


To touch on this statment above ! As John said *AMHR HAS NOT GIVEN ANY $$$$ TO THIS GROUP :nono: .*



> As it sounds, many of the founding members of the IAMHA are already on the boards of the AMHA/AMHR, so why not use your collective power within to promote the breed and work on the problems from there? If an outside association is needed, why hasn't the AMHA and AMHR joined USEF as the ASPC has


And to clarify one or two things on this statement



: First there are *NO ASPC/AMHR DIRECTORS INVOLVED IN THIS. :nono: :nono: * 

 


And ASPC/AMHR ARE INVOLVED WITH USEF !!



:



: 

 


Sincerely 


Belinda Bagby


Area V Director

 

 


P.S. 


And for any other comments from my personal feelings I will just hold on to those for now..



:



:



:


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## Marty (Dec 20, 2006)

xxxxxx


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## Al B (Dec 20, 2006)

KayKay as I said we have only been affiliated with this group a very short time and John is certainly much more knowledgable than I, but it is my belief that this organiztion has no preconceived desire to become a registry.

I am sorry if my comments mislead anyone.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

Just to clarify. Belinda is exactly right and I hope with the private email I just sent her a few minutes ago she understands where we are at and where we are going. She is a person I respect and value in this industry.



:

As far as the concerns from Kay Kay, I think I understand what and why you are questioning the excerts you are. But even with that understanding I don't really understand is what I have not made clear. It is not our intention to ever have a registry under our control or banner so to speak.

But as prudent business people I cannot rule out the possibility that someday if things were to go from where we are standing today which ( which is okay under the circumstances) to be completely dismantled we would not re-vist opening a registry as a last resort. And in an effort to make people aware that we had considered that possiblity would seem to be to be fisically responsible to me.

I will tell you though that in the beginning of this group, several from outside the state and one from within that left the group becuase they were made very aware of our adversion to even thinking about opening another registry. That is what they wanted and they did not fit into our group and our goals.

John Cherry

IAMHA


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## Al B (Dec 20, 2006)

Thank you Marty for your kind endorsement. We have worked hard to achieve what success we have had in miniatures and owe it all to the AMHA. We will never be part of any endeavor to discredit or hurt the registry in any way.

By the way, Carolyn Garrison is a friend of mine and lives here in Texas.

Carolyn Garrison - Petite Acres Miniatures [[email protected]]


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## Miniv (Dec 20, 2006)

Just for the record (as if anyone may care) I am reserving opinion on this.

I am interested in knowing more and happen to see some names listed that I have respect for and cannot believe they would be involved in anything underhanded or damaging to either AMHA or AMHR.

MA


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## Buckskin gal (Dec 20, 2006)

Where would a person find a list of all the names of those who are now in this group? thanks, Mary


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## Belinda (Dec 20, 2006)

:



: Just got off the phone with John, had another of our great conversations



: LOL!! But after talking with him and listening to what he had to say , I will say it might be worth watching ,listening and following up on what they are getting done.



:

Change is NOT always bad ! I am a hard sell to change because I get comfortable in what I am familiar with



: And I think that happens to alot of people..



:

The only thing that I ask several times was not to let it get so $$$$$ minded that it left the MOM & POP's out that did this for the fun and enjoyment.. Money is great and we all need it no doubt, but then I have never been one to think that money was EVERYTHING !! As I have said before there are those that have and show their miniature horses for the fun and family time together..

With that all said I wish them all the best and I will be listening and watching to see how things go. :aktion033:


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## hhpminis (Dec 20, 2006)

I have been at a loss of words most of the day with this one and as all of you may know that doesn't happen often. My initial gut feeling was not to trust as I feel we have been given a piece of candy and sent out to play with the other kids while the adults discuss business.

I dont understand how all these ideas and thoughts could be sitting around a board table and not gotten any results. Do we truly need a "for profit" organization to represent us to get our thoughts, ideas and wishes through to the registries? I thought that is what our directors were for. Yes they have ideas of their own and have the right to exercise them but when elected, it is assumed that they will represent the people that elected them and do what they can to make them happen or at least be addressed.

I commend you for forcing your hand so to speak with your letter of intent but where were these intentions for the last year? These are not new concerns. If the last year had been spent working on these we would have already been into the required waiting period one year and would be looking at implementation in 08. Or with enough support and push could have had emergency implementation of some of them.

Your ideas are good, but could have been good within the realms of an existing organization too. I guess I feel a bit let down at this point.

If this is what it takes to get satsfaction then so be it. I am truly sorry if this is what it is going to take to make positive changes and listen to the memberships desires. Just make sure that the members are truly heard, big and small, and that all have equal say whether they have 2 or 200 horses or you will be no different than what we have now.

If this is the intent of this organization than my hat is off to you and I will hold judgement and watch and learn and be the first to apologize for my distrust. If this works, you will have my support. If it does not and you put an honest effort into it, I will thank you. If it is another way to bring the precious dollar to those who already profit the most than I hope you can sleep at night with those intentions.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

Folks I know change in the status quo is often something that takes a while to be able to accept. But I honestly expect this venture to work well for all concerned, foundation group members, large farms, small farms, Mom & Pop with one gelding and the youth that want to be involved.

Do I expect to be able to make it at least a break even venture in the long run, yes I do. I am a much better business man than that, than to get into something that will cost me an endless amount of money and time, which is even more valuble to me than money.

But in the process of trying to make it pay for itself, I also believe we can accomplish what others have not been able to do working within the structures we have all worked with in the past.

It is possible to bring new folks into this industry, it is possible to set up shows that are fair to everyone at them, we can educate the general public and the less informed members of our group and we can improve the position of the miniature horse in the equine industry. We can also have some *fun* doing all those things. If that is all accomplished then the mini world as we know it will be changed for the better. I hope for the sake of all of us we are sucessful in this undertaking.

I am not even going to address the need for a group such a ours, because I believe you already know my stand on that issue. But I understand your concern and question completely.

May God Bless and Merry Christmas to All, This has been a long day and I am heading home. LOL

:saludando:


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## _minihorses4ever_ (Dec 20, 2006)

Wow, what a long interesting discussion. This is what I love about this forum. We can have "heated" discussions, without it getting really hot in here.





I know I am just a youth, but I too, have an opinion on this after reading everything. My initial reaction was that they were trying to "replace" AMHA, but I think it has been made pretty clear, that it isn't. I trust facts coming from members such as Al B, Belinda, and John Cherry that this is not something that is going to replace AMHA nor try to hurt it.

I have decided I am excited about this new IAMHA. As a youth, I hope it will help me gain experience without having to think about things such as points. I look foward to seeing what IAMHA has to offer.





Edited for grammar.


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## Field-of-Dreams (Dec 20, 2006)

Personally, IMHO, if this organization stings AMHA into getting their act together, AWESOME. They really do need to look at themselves and make some hard changes.

If it gives me another place to show my horses, terrific!!! And if the prizes are $$, all the better.

If it educates the public that those cute little horses you see on TV shows can do more than be pets, wonderful! And that those tiny, misshapen horses have major problems and health issues and that "genuine'' breeders do NOT breed for then, we are headed in the right direction.

We raise and show primarily AMHR horses. This year we are getting our feet wet and trying a few AMHA shows. So, we'll wait and see.

Lucy


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## Reble (Dec 20, 2006)

Change can be good




:

I do have an open mind, so will wait to hear more :aktion033:


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## Yaddax3 (Dec 20, 2006)

Presumably, the news release would have caused less concern and panic if it had been a joint release from the new group and AMHA. Why wasn't it a joint release? Was it because AMHA leadership hasn't bought into IAMHA and will be reluctant to take the advice and guidance offered?

Also ...

If AMHA is in peril and needs guidance from this new group, why isn't there a move -- or maybe there is -- to replace the AMHA leadership?

One final thought ...

If there really will be huge prize money offered at some kind of supershow, please let me know the date and location as soon as possible. It'd be nice to go to a show and have a chance to make a few bucks for a change.


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## Devon (Dec 20, 2006)

Well From my point of view. It sounds alright. I mean the things they listed to have that both AMHR and AMHA have issues with sound good. BUT AMHR And AMHA probably did all those things but lost them once these overwhelming number of horses came in. Think how many horses there are registered there are obviously going to be some unavoidable errors. Are some of your saying you won't register your horses IAMHA? If others do will you look at that person and hors ein a differant way? just

wondering? Because what they are promising sounds good to me. And the prize money shows thats a nice promise hehe.


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## Sunny (Dec 20, 2006)

Has the AMHA _asked_ for help from the IAMHA? Sounds like they have all the answers and can cure all that ails the AMHA. Maybe they can, and that would be a good thing, but I don't like the sound of them. I'll be curious to see how this all plays out, though.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 20, 2006)

Okay I am back from Dinner. let me try and address a few of the questions that have been ask.

1. No AMHA did not ask for anything from us even thoguh they have known of our existence for over three months.

2. You can't register horses with IAMHA, because we are not a registry and hope to never be one. That is the job of AMHA & AMHR.

3. Yes we have attempted to work with the E-Board of AMHA for the last three months or so trying to get a face to Face meeting with them. We even offered to fly to California for that meeting. In all fairness though these folks have lives too and have been very busy with personal business concerns from my understanding. we could not wait any longer in our opinion if we were going to attend the venues we wanted too. IE the Ft. Worth Stock Show and the Houston Stock show which are in January and the end of Febuary.

4. Replacing or keeping the leadership of AMHA is a decision for the members of AMHA at the National Meeting in Las Vegas, not ours.

5. Everyone is focusing on the shows and the non-registering portion of the agenda, when in fact the most exciting thing to me is that over 4 Million people ( the attendance numbers from both shows) will be exposed to cute well fitted miniature horses at these two venues alone. If we get 1 % to become interested that is a huge influx of members for AMHA or AMHR or both.

6. the seminar portion of the agenda is something that should be very interesting to folks, at this time I have had one AMHA Judge and one AMHR judge offer to do one about showing both in the driving and halter portion of a show from a judges standpoint. Additionally we have one of the most sucessful trainers in the business in the group and he has offered to do training seminars.

enough for now,

:saludando:


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## wildoak (Dec 21, 2006)

Very interesting reading. It sounds to me like a viable concept, and one that may indeed help promote the breed. John, the only concern I have with IAMHA shows is that with breed show participation down, it's possible that new shows will cause exhibitors to choose between those and AMHA or AMHR - and further reduce entries. You may be anticipating a different set of folks showing there initially, I don't know. But the exhibitors time and dollar only stretches so far. We have to pick and choose our shows - and are fortunate to have plenty here to choose from. This is something I would like to support, and I hope it will complement and enhance what the breed associations have to offer.

Jan


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

Wildoak that is one of the challenges that the committee on the super shows as we call them is facing. The mandate from the group to the committee was to find weekends where there was not conflict between us and local AMHA or AMHR shows. The last thing the local clubs need is competition from us on a weekend they are trying to put on a show. So we have to find facilities on a weekend with no conflict locally. That is proving to be a hard thing to do, but we are still investigating the different options.

:saludando:


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## Buckskin gal (Dec 21, 2006)

From this statement that John made I would guess it is going to be a business "Do I expect to be able to make it at least a break even venture in the long run, yes I do. I am a much better business man than that, than to get into something that will cost me an endless amount of money and time, which is even more valuble to me than money." I doubt if they could do it if they figured it wouldn't make something.



Mary Lou - LB said:


> Is this a non-profit Alliance or a BUSINESS to make money for it's founders?


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

The group is a limited Liability for profit corporation between the founding members. Of which there are 10 right now and eventually when we finish interviewing people etc. there may be as many as 15 of those partners.

There currently is no membership, but eventually in the next few months we will offer membership to probally three different levels of members Farms, Families and Individuals with a different benefit package for each level. Things such as discounts on tack, reduction of export costs to foriegn countries for NoN USA members, reduction of show fees, reduction of auction commisions and consignment fees, feed discounts etc. will be in those packages. We have not settled on an exact plan yet, but we have a committee working on it.

Hope that answers your question Mary Lou, I also sent you an email in answer to your email on the same subject.

:saludando:


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## horsefeather (Dec 21, 2006)

People never cease to astound me! Lots of youall have been complaining about the very things these folks are trying to fix. These complaints have been around for the 15 yrs. I have been showing. The registries have done nothing about them. Now someone comes along and wants to see things finally changing and you guys get all upset. How about just sitting back and see what happens. I, for one, am thrilled! I don't show AMHA, but I do show AMHR and I still will, but I'm hoping this will come about and I'd be happy to help in any way I could.

Pam


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## Buckskin gal (Dec 21, 2006)

I would like to know why all this could not been within the AMHA ? I can understand that it takes time to change rules or add new ones but I don't understand why there would have been any resistance from AMHA for promotion, shows, clinics etc. as you have stated is needed and your business will have. Was there an absolute problem with others in AMHA that wouldn't have allowed it to happen? May we see a list of the people who are all involved in this business?



JWC sr. said:


> Folks I am sorry so many of you are a bit confused. Let me make a point blank statement. *IAMHA is not and has no desire to be a registry in competition with AMHA or AMHR.* We are a focus group that thinks though that we can do a better job presenting our product "The American Miniature Horse" to the general public and the rest of the equine world. Additionally we think we can do a better job of providing educational and fun venues for new and established mini owners alike.
> 
> We are committed members of AMHA & AMHR and are using our own money to exhibit at stock show & equine venues around the country to expose the "American Miniature Horse" to the general public.
> 
> ...


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## Neil (Dec 21, 2006)

I must say that I have found this discussion very interesting and have spent probably way to much time reading the postings, the files sent to me today and the IAMHA web page.

In some of the postings it seems people think that some group has come along independent of the AMHA. It has always been my understanding that the AMHA is it's membership. I believe that all of the IAMHA BOD members are members in good standing of the AMHA.

While searching through the IAMHA web page I have found pages on the Founding Farms and it's Board of Directors. It seems that the Founding farms are nine farms including 17 members. All 17 founding members hold positions on the BOD.

When I look through the AMHA web pages I see that three of the 17 members are the three AMHA Directors from the AMHA District 06 (Texas).

Looking further I also see that these members serve on the following AMHA 2006 Committees:

Amateur/Special Needs, AOTE, Computer/Internet, Futurity, International, Long Range, Marketing, Show Rules and World Show.

I also note that all of it's members are from the state of Texas.

I will continue to read and try to understand but in the mean time the verdict is still out for me.


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## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2006)

Interesting.

Change is needed (IMHO) in both registries. There seems to be alot of memberhsip dissatisfaction and grumblings on this Forum, on the lists and in private conversations. Measuring has been a hot button for eons - asking, voting, forcing both registries to take a hard look at correcting this is necessary. The same goes for more member participation - online meetings, voting, etc.

If any group of people want to formalize themselves into an Alliance or whatever for business promotion and profit - I'm not going to stop them, in fact I would say go to it! This is America after all. It doesn't necessarily bother me that they serve on various committees, etc., with AMHA either as most of them do have a vested interest in the success of AMHA and our industry as a whole. They have obviously been working (voluteering their time!) to try and improve things with AMHA. Apparently they've seen the need for change and if they can achieve it in a postive way great. If this group is purely to undermine AMHA or AMHR that is different.

I do agree with what John shared earlier - getting changes made in either registry (rules, measuring, etc.) is a Herculean event. It would be nice if so many of the complaints often registered here could be addressed and actually happen.

I do have definite concerns and reservations though as to the shows. Regardless of the intent, when it comes to the average person showing - if you can go to an AMHA or AMHR show or go to a show with $$ & prizes, many will chose that show - that will undermine show attendance. It would be nice if the prizes could be used/provided at the A or R shows instead of being competitive.

I guess it's a wait and see for now.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2006)

It is interesting that you think this is International.

Last time I looked I did not live in America.

Never heard a WORD about it.

Not important enough, I guess.

Interesting that you think only AMHA and AMHR horses are "Miniature Horses"

Last time I looked most people in Europe, Australia and New Zealand all had their own breeding programmes, which may or may not be _founded_ on American horses, but are not American, per se.

So, another elitist, money making venture???

And, for the record, there is already a scheme in situ for providing passports for imported horses.


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## Jill (Dec 21, 2006)

Reading through what went on here since I was reading last night, I still do not see what there is to be upset about. I'm excited about new chances to show, minis being promoted to owners of other breeds, seminars to attend, etc.!

As to if it's for profit or not, as a business owner who provides services to clients, that just "hits" me wrong that people are concerned if someone else might make some money out of this organization! I hope they do make money. I don't expect charity. If someone offers services that others benefit from, then there should be a profit. There is nothing wrong with making a profit because you brought something useful to the public.

If AMHA had more of a business mindset... well, you can take that thought as far as you want.


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## OhHorsePee (Dec 21, 2006)

Mr Cherry,

Could you please tell me how this program would benefit the small farms? How do you plan on making these shows more equal and fair to these small farms? I also want to hear where this organization wishes to be in ten years.

I say kudos to any one person or people trying something new. It takes a lot of guts to start something knowing there would be some nay sayers. Good luck on your endeavors!

Fran


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## Neil (Dec 21, 2006)

Jill said:


> [...]
> If AMHA had more of a business mindset... well, you can take that thought as far as you want.


It is this kind of comment that I see keep popping up in this thread that bothers me.

These people are the AMHA. As I said above, three are currently AMHA Directors. All but three of the Founding Members/BOD are currently serving on AMHA Committees. The remaining three I don't currently see serving as an AMHA Director or Committee member are very active in what goes on in the AMHA. These are hard working AMHA members. So, if you think that these people have a business mindset then the AMHA does have working members with a business mindset.

(PS: my numbers may not be accurate but I am guessing that they are close enough for government work and to try to get my point across.)


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2006)

I am still waiting to hear how this will benefit "international" members.

Seeing as how I do not actually know any International Members who have received any information.


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## sfmini (Dec 21, 2006)

Jane, this is about the only information that has been distributed other than an email that went to select people from the iamha. I was not on the original distribution list, but only received it thanks to an AMHA committee chairperson passing it on.

So non USA countries were not slighted, we all were unless we were part of that select group of recipients.


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## kaykay (Dec 21, 2006)

Jane

Way back in this thread john said they werent ready to tackle overseas stuff yet but that would be in the future.

Its really interesting to me that Tony or Ronnie havent commented on this. Id really like to know their opinion.

Im not for or against this just skeptical due to what is posted here vs what their website says. And Id really like to know if AMHA is in favor of this and willing to work with this group.

Also I guess you are all staying on your committees etc with AMHA?

IMO if you want to make an impact with shows go to the states that barely have any shows. That would have the biggest impact and you wouldnt have to worry about conflicting with rated shows.

ps i just got the email this morning from equitex on this formation but i cant get the attachments to work


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## HaazeMinis (Dec 21, 2006)

I have been silently studying & reading this and other topics brought up here in the last week or so. These are topics that are of great interest to me since I also have AMHA/AMHR horses.




:

I had refrained from posting on the other threads and found it rather ironic that all the sudden this thread came from no where. As if it was planned that way, like a few others have stated earlier.



:

Having a very small farm with under 15 head (including foals) I would very much like to venture out into showing since I feel I do have a few nice individuals here I feel would be competitive, however I have in the past been in the "dog show world" (I used to show Saint Bernards) and know how political showing "can" be and being a very "small fish" in a "BIG" pond...well... lets just say I gave up showing dogs after darn near 4 years after witnessing time and time again (IMHO) that it was WHO was at the lead alot of the time and not the individual animal.

Just so you you all know I am not saying every show is like that but the ones I had been to both as specatator and exhibitor over a 6 year period seems to go that way.Dont get me wrong there were also some very fine idividuals out there showing as well and diserved the win. However, if the animal got to group it appeared if you did not a "well known" handler and your animal carried your small kennel name and bred by your kennel you did not get to far in the "large" bench type shows. There are only two shows that are benched and I will not name which one it was. I feel its the same way in any type of horse showing as well wether the big ones or small ones. There are exceptions to every rule. However, it seems to go that way in alot of cases so that is why I chose to stay out of showing for now anyway.....

So,I am with Fran ( OhHorsePee) can John please explain how this could help us "small farms" to be equal and fair to us?



: I am open to any comments (I have my flame suit on just in case too



: ) from John or anyone one else who is involved with the forming of this "Association" . I know I am not the only one who feels this way because there are quite a few on this very thread who are "little guys" as well.

For now I will just sit back and see what happens with this and this thread has peaked my "interest" in showing again if we do indeed have a chance to get out there among people who may not know enough about miniatures because isnt EDUCATION the key here? :bgrin

If more of the general public were educated about these little ones and realize that the ones that are usually "featured" in the public eye are usually NOT what breeders and show individuals thrive for...then how is the general public supposed to know about them and what they can do...right?



:

Well I guess thats all for now. very interesting!



:

Jeri


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2006)

Kay this is supposed to be, and is touted as an INTERNATIONAL society.

If it is not such- and it quote obviously is not since they are not ready to be, please remove the International but from the title.

Do not set up an "international" society that may, or may not, eventually, have some time to give, if we are very, very lucky, to it's international members.

Bet they would have time to tackle accepting International money


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## HaazeMinis (Dec 21, 2006)

Its really interesting to me that Tony or Ronnie havent commented on this. Id really like to know their opinion.

Im not for or against this just skeptical due to what is posted here vs what their website says. And Id really like to know if AMHA is in favor of this and willing to work with this group.

Also I guess you are all staying on your committees etc with AMHA?

IMO if you want to make an impact with shows go to the states that barely have any shows. That would have the biggest impact and you wouldnt have to worry about conflicting with rated shows.

*Kay Kay that is exactly what I was wondering too!



: Very interesting!*


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## Debby - LB (Dec 21, 2006)

HGFarm said:


> I completely agree with Charlotte and Becky- I find this very deceiving. Why would we pay to show at these shows, etc... when I hear we can't even support the shows that AMHA is currently putting on? If they are barely making it financially, wouldn't I want to continue to support the organization rather than shifting my funding somewhere else? What will AMHA get out of it? Even less attendance at shows and less money- thus possibly causing them to fold.
> 
> I also am really concerned about the time spent on this, when the same effort could have been put into some committees with AMHA and AMHR, to improve things, create some futurities and shows like this THERE to support what we already have!!
> 
> ...


You said this better than I ever could. :aktion033:

I probably should not even elaborate, I don't show, I don't breed much and I can't go to the meetings but I do support AMHA and won't have a horse that is not registered AMHA but I can't help myself I have to say something.... I feel the same way Becky does, backstabbed by the people we trusted to run AMHA.  How ironic some of the founders of this group are the same individuals who we members were asking to resign from their offices within AMHA this very year??

I can read between the lines, it's the same as the our way or the highway mentality that was tried in the office. I see an elite group of people who have tried to bring oversize horses into the AMHA registry and could not succeed.

MOST of the ideas this new group has published are very good ones....ones that since most in this group are officers of AMHA could have already been put in place *within the AMHA*...such a shame, look how far ahead in the promotion of the 34" and under horse we could have been!

If this were a group of people who were not elected and appointed AMHA officers this wouldn't bother me so much, the fact that they are is very offensive. Even if they weren't I would worry about them affecting turn out at the AMHA shows.

This WILL affect the turnout and participation of the AMHA shows, no doubt about it. A lot of people have to pick and choose how and where they show because of financial reasons.

This all makes me very sad. I think that our (AMHA) officers working as a for profit to promote AMHR is ludicrous. I wish you guys had used your resources to form the International American Miniature Horse Association Alliance. If you want to resign from the registry and form your own group to make money by promoting Miniature Horses as a whole that would have been bad enough...jumping ship so to say.... but doing this while inside the orginization is sad, sad



I'm sorry.


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## Songcatcher (Dec 21, 2006)

This is all quite mind boggling to me. I am very small time. I do not currently show, although I hope to some day.

I do not want to make any accusations against anyone, but there seem to be a lot of unanswered questions.

A wise man once said, "When there is a controversy, follow the money."

This is a "business". Who is paying for it? Who is deciding where the shows will be held? Who is hiring the judges for the shows? Who is paying the entry fees for the shows? Who do you suppose will be winning the shows?

The point has been made that it takes a very long time to make any changes in the rules of AMHA. How is this "Alliance" going to speed that up if as members of the BOD and committee members they are unable to do that?

I do not have my mind closed. I just don't understand.



:


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## miniwhinny (Dec 21, 2006)

Al B said:


> IAMHA is not a registry nor will it ever be.
> 
> IAMHA is not in competition with any registry.
> 
> ...


:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Time will tell.

My only sadness is that this is another organization for the over-sized mini. I wonder how much promotion will go into letting people know mini's should be SMALL



:


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2006)

IAMHA is NOT International, either!!!

So there is one lie to start, how many others are being hidden in the paperwork?????


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## Yaddax3 (Dec 21, 2006)

At the moment, IAMHA is just a small group of Texas people who want to do things differently. Their organization doesn't have much clout unless miniature horse enthusiasts such as those on this Forum give it to them.

Their success, or failure, is dependent on the support of others. Anyone can start an organization or a business. As you know, not everything works.

I'm curious to see how this one does. I'd like it to work if only to see if it comes through with that carrot it's dangling -- super shows with huge prize money. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a lot of money goes into showing but there are very few payback shows.

So, please, bring it on. As Cuba Gooding's character said in the "Jerry McGuire" movie, "Show me the money."


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## HaazeMinis (Dec 21, 2006)

Songcatcher said:


> This is all quite mind boggling to me. I am very small time. I do not currently show, although I hope to some day.
> 
> I do not want to make any accusations against anyone, but there seem to be a lot of unanswered questions.
> 
> ...


*Very good way of putting words down Songcatcher & I am also feel the same way! *

Very mind boggling indeed



: !

I agree with your quote!



: very good questions as well! we will have to see if we get the answers to these questions. I also am remaining open minded about this so as to not pass judgement YET.



: It just seems a little "fishy" to me to some extent?



: As a few stated earlier could it be "hidden agendas"



: Just wait and see I guess.





Jeri


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## maryann (Dec 21, 2006)

The timeing of this anouncement is bothering me. !!I really don't know enough about this new

organization to be for or against it at this time. I will just have to follow its progress to see how I feel. However I am sure there was a reason for it to come out now.

There were several threads started on the 17 th and 18th about the possibility of the over 34 inch horses , measuring , voting. etc.

Ronnie was fielding questions and throwing out thoughs on both sides. These threads seemed

very constructive and lead to some very good discussion . So was this announcement meant to enhance the fact that some constructive headway was being made and that someone was doing research to see how the majority felt, or was it to distract from it? If it was the later I am very concerned , that maybe the best interest of the AMHA is not priority for this group. I just don't think it was a coincidence that these controversial topics came to the forum in this order. maryann (just a little fish)


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## bfogg (Dec 21, 2006)

I have been reading this thread with much interest.

The AMHA has known that the members have not been satisified with the way things have been for oh at least 20 years the measuring debate has been going on that long and so has the issue of its members wanting mail in voting.

They have done nothing. Period.

If they had been interested in new ideas and maybe a few changes they would have set up a meeting with these people and said lets see what you've got!! New ideas are wonderful and we are always willing to hear them at (AMHA)

to make our registry better so we welcome people who have a better mousetrap! (So to speak)

But they have not done that!

They have seemed to not even want to hear about or listen to people that held high positions in their own organization!

To me this speaks volumes.

When either a person business or an organization stops listening to its own people it is doomed.

Now whether this imaha is a good thing or not I don't know yet but AMHA should have heard what these people had to say, welcomed them to speak and listened to them!!!!! What would they have to lose???

if they had a good idea it should have been brought to the attention of the members to see what the members thought.

Certainly no harm would have been done would there? Maybe a little time lost hearing what they had to say.

I believe them when they said they don't want to become a new registry, who in their right mind would want to take something like that on?

But I think what they are saying is, look business is stagnant,members are unhappy and leaving at unhealthy rates, wake up and smell the coffee people!.

Competition is a healthy thing its kind of the american way. If a business has that it kind of makes them more

aware of their customers wants and needs. Keeps people on their toes.

As I said lets hear what they have to say. I love the wicket idea.I think the silence from AMHA speaks volumes. And you know it makes me feel sad.

Intelligent discussions and exchanges of ideas keep businesses and clubs vital and healthy.

Now lets hear it from AMHA we know they monitor this forum we know they have heard this discussion and would love to see them be proactive instead of being reactive only once a year at a meeting that most of us cannot afford to atted.

I am hoping this doesn't sound like I am anti AMHA because I can also say a few things about AMHR that doesn't thrill me but this is about the effect on AMHA.

I belive most people at both registerys do their best at times a pretty thankless job. God bless them!

However everyone should be open to new ideas its what keeps us young.

So lets listen, think and watch and then make an informed decision!

JMHO

Bonnie

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## HGFarm (Dec 21, 2006)

I am all for change- it is always a good thing. However, if these folks in charge of this are all BOD members for AMHA, and THEY are the ones voting on what goes to the general membership to vote on, why hasnt this been done within the organization of AMHA? If it takes a couple of years, so be it- how long will it take this organization to get on it's feet? Any new 'business' is not an immediate success. In the amount of time it will take to see if this is even going to fly or not, many changes could have been presented through AMHA to implement and improve the exhisting organization.

Yes, I agree that change is needed, but I think there could have been a way to do this from within.

I dont expect to hear a quick or rash comment from AMHA. I am just concerned that these folks who could have been processing changes WITHIN AMHA decided to make a for profit business venture outside of it.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

Good Morning Folks,

First thing off the bat, let me say that while I understand many of the concerns you are voicing, but many of the questions are answered in the release and other papers we have sent to everyone we had an email address for.

With that said let me try to give it a go though:

1. There is no need to try and follow the money the group has been funded by the founding group and only the founding group at this time. We each made a contribution to get things going. We are not affliated with AMHA or AMHR.

2. All decisions on venues for shows, exhibits, seminars etc will be made by our Board of Directors of which all the founding members are part of.

3. Hopefully we can have some influence on the changing of the rules of AMHA, but there is no guarantee. Mike Want made the statement during our talks with him that he had not been informed of major problems with possible soultions, so one of our goals was to submit what we knew as members and what we had gleaned on boards etc. such as this. I refer you to the letter to him at the beginning of this thread for further information.

4. In fairness to Mike and the rest of the E-Board the way AMHA is set up makes it very slow to make changes, but hopefully the process will start on the things he deems worthy at the next national meeting. Realize these folks are all volunteers and have personall live's also.

5. As far as being international we have had input from a number of European, Autrailalian and other countries. We have addressed a portion of the suggestions to AMHA about the International community and will have a package of benefits to offer international folks when we release that portion of the program later. We plan on continuing to offer seminars and educational venues to folks in other countries in the near future, so yes we will be a group that is concerned about the state of the American Miniature Horse Internationally.

6. Presently all of our members are from Texas, but in the beginning we had members for other states involved and they have dropped out over the course of putting this thing together. It has been and will be expensive to pull off what we are planning. We may add several more founding members to the group , if this happens then it is possible that they may cme from other areas of the country. The financial commitment is pretty steep and we are interviewing potential members as we speak.

7. The benefits for a small farm are pretty apparent to me, we are striving to bring new people into the industry, additionally we want to create a buzz in the mini community that should help implement change that everyone has talked about here and elsewhere non-stop for months on end. That coupled with the educational oppurtunites we are planning should be fun for everyone involved.

8. We are doing everything possible to keep from conflicting with any AMHA or AMHR shows, it is important that the local clubs do not have to compete with us on any given weekend. That is one of the challenges of the committee we have assigned to find venues for our shows without local conflict. That is a daunting task in itself, of finding a venue and then making sure of the schedule for other events surrounding that venues and the dates that are avalible.

9 Last but not least we do not lie or have any hidden agendas, our complete mission is very clearly laid out in our Mission Statement, Letter to AMHA, and Our Planned agenda. Those things coupled with the other things we have planned are and will continue to be as transparent as is possible.

Enough for now.

John Cherry

IAMHA


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Dec 21, 2006)

I keep hearing people say they feel stabbed in the back and I of course am no one to say not to feel that way.

I am curious though.. how many of those still feel stabbed in the back by ALL the members who were involved in AMHA's last fiasco? The selling/renting of the registry and data base programs to register other livestock like llammas and horses overseas?

I forgot now the name of that one but that was the one that really helped with the financial issues starting and brought up a huge shake up in AMHA and members gave large sums of money to AMHA to keep it going.

Seems to me some names I saw on that paperwork(papers filed in TX to become a corp and the board members) are still looked up to members of AMHA

So my point in bringing that up is obviously many feel it was/is possible to do both or have tried to do both

I am just wondering why they are so sure in this case it isnt possible for these people to do both ?

I hear many saying the timing is bothering them I am just trying to understand what is wrong with the timing? are you upset you werent told from the first conception of the idea?

I would think with the AMHA meeting coming up in Vegas the timing is great to get the word out there and be able to discuss it with everyone including those on the board starting this and those that aren't

Bad timing to me would be AFTER that meeting but that is just me.. again just trying to really understand the oposition to all of this

Jane I am sure like he said they have talked to others in the international community. I realize they didnt talk to you but that doesnt mean they are lying and havent talked to anyone right? There are many members of the international community out there and that is in large part to the marketing of AMHA I will surely give credit where credit is due and they have done a wonderful job at that

Of course this venture will make them some money if it goes as planned. I am not sure I see anything wrong with that. I can think of many past and present that were able to make HUGE profits off of there position and hard work in AMHA and AMHR being on the exec BOD has its benifits and the best one is getting you out there , your farm name known and heard all the time not to mention many times being the hero riding up on the white horse which is all very good marketing for there own personal farms.

That is just one of the perks

Not sure if that makes sense totally made sense in my head but not so much in print



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## Frankie (Dec 21, 2006)

Well, it has taken me two days to read this, then read this again and then try to understand completely.

My thought on it,

I hate political,,,,,,can't stand political,,,,,,,,,,,,and to me it all comes down to politics, yet again. Period. All I have read here and in emails,,,,,,this too is about a whole lot of politics.

That is just my opinion.

I don't want to be envolved in politics, just want to enjoy my horse and showing them if I so choose to do so.

The hardest part about all the political bull crud, is trying to stay away from it, I work for my clubs,,,,,and try to work hard, but to do so, I need to avoid the other crud to have a good time.



:

I am a very small farm. 10 horses right now.

I have NEVER felt small, or been treated small by either AMHA, AMHR or any club I belong to.

In most, by far, because I do not have a small mouth.



:

I will continue to read and follow this, from all sources,,,,,,,,but for now,,,I have enough Presidents to keep up with.


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## *minis* (Dec 21, 2006)

JWC sr. said:


> 5. As far as being international we have had input from a number of European, Autrailalian and other countries. We have addressed a portion of the suggestions to AMHA about the International community and will have a package of benefits to offer international folks when we release that portion of the program later. We plan on continuing to offer seminars and educational venues to folks in other countries in the near future, so yes we will be a group that is concerned about the state of the American Miniature Horse Internationally.


Sorry to say that, but I find it a bit worrying that you seem to think that seminars and educational venues are all that those outside of the US need.



: Any chance you would disclose who of the international community you did in fact talk to? The international AMHA directors or just random people? Just wondering.

Thanks

Carina


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## sdmini (Dec 21, 2006)

Coming from a quarter horse background Iâ€™m very familiar with both NCHA (national cutting horse association) and NRHA (national reining horse association). Both offer large paybacks, both are very expensive to â€œplayâ€. Those huge payouts come with large entry fees. I know some people who bought a colt, at auction, for around $1,500. That horse went on to place Top Ten in one division for NCHA. He also had a $30,000 trainer bill and show fees in the first 60 days.

AQHAâ€™s (American Quarter Horse Association) boast the largest equine numbers at 3,224,096 they register over 165,000 foals a year yet participation at their shows has been dropping over the years. The answer is two fold. One is the specialized venues is leaching off participants. The other and largest is that it is hard for the average joe to compete and compete successfully against the big names and big money.

AMHA has the same problem in that they are losing their average joes, who are the life blood to any association. Offering big prize money does not help the average joe as big prize money attracts big farms and trainers.

It also frightens me that you wish to see AMHA and AMHR the largest equine registries. With the low prices now I can only image what would happen with over three million AMHA horses.

The other point to make is you would not be offering a specialized venue (i.e. jumping, driving) but rather the entire show list so no matter what weekend you put your super show on you would be competing with other shows. Shows put on by people who also have day jobs and work their butts of for most times no money or fan fare, they do it just because they wish to "promote the breed". If AMHA shows and attendance has dwindled wouldn't the $20,000 added show be a boast to AMHA instead of taking away from their current shows.

I'm still lost as to why you feel you couldn't promote miniature horses under the roof of AMHA. As AMHA committee members arenâ€™t you suppose to be protecting and promoting AMHA?

As far as competition you bet competition is a good thing but how can you compete against the very association you sit on the board???? â€œNewâ€ ideas are seldom new and this one is not either so it is not the formation of it that sits uneasy with me but the formation of it by current (and still acting) AMHA board members. If you are employed with a company and they are not listening to your ideas so you sit up a company that is in direct competition for their employerâ€™s clients (i.e. show attendance) do you think you should be still employed by that company?!? Yes I know that although they worked for AMHA they were not employed by AMHA.

All said Iâ€™ll wait and see how this all comes out in the wash.


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## Mona (Dec 21, 2006)

My original thoughts on this new group were that is was formed so that if AMHA caves in, there will be something in place to "pick up the pieces". I thought it was good to be thinking ahead. I am not opposed to this new group, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder about it.

Many here are saying, "Well at least they are listening to us, and trying to do something for us", but even that is not helping us with our current beefs and concerns with our current registries. We need the CURRENT registries to address our problems and work hard at rectifying them. This new group has listened to us...has heard us, but it won't change the way things are run in AMHA and AMHR. This new group will not benefit us as far as giving members what they want in their current registries.

We cannot register our horses with the new group...they say that is the job of the registries(which is true). They are basically going to offer promotion of the breed, which is wonderful, but to think they care enough to address issues with the registry(ies), that still will do us no good when it comes to our gripes with the current registries. What is needed more, is to have our current registries work this hard at giving their members what they want and trying to work towards that.

I am not agaisnt this, and welcome it if it will give people more opportunity to get out and enjoy their horses. All I am saying is that as good as it sounds, it is not going to solve any of our current problems with our current reg. organizations.


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## ClickMini (Dec 21, 2006)

I can't really see where this is a bad idea, from what has been presented to us. From the moment I stepped into the Miniature Horse industry, I could not see why the little ones were not actively being promoted to people involved in other breeds. There has been a little bit of advancement on this front but there is still a huge gaping opportunity, in my opinion. I applaud everyone who is innovative and forward thinking, as ultimately it can benefit us all.

I come to miniatures from the big horses. I have been involved in many aspects of sport horse activity including hunter/jumper, dressage, and Thoroughbred racing. Many of the big horse sports have "marketing" organizations. Thoroughbred racing has the NTRA (National Thoroughbred Racing Association) and the TOBA (Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association) for example. That does not take away from the Jockey Club, which registers the horses, tracks performance, and is the prime governance entity for the breed. I know that cutting and reining people have opportunity to earn big money through their own associations, which are related to but not part of the AQHA and APHA. Another example is the American Hunter-Jumper Foundation. These organizations were formed by prominent industry leaders whose livelihoods and investments were reliant on the growth and success of their breed and/or sport.

How does this benefit the small breeder or exhibitor? The stated charter to educate members and the public, for one thing. If this organization sponsors clinics and seminars across the USA and around the world, and provides educational material from the web site, this is a great thing. Perhaps the educational portion will include information about how to market to potential overseas clients, or how to navigate the paperwork maze when exporting a live animal. Quarantine and veterinary information, preparing for shipment, links to shippers, that sort of thing.

I am not too surprised that this kind of organization would take root from a single area. Many of the largest farms and trainers are located in that region. I would expect that a similar organization for Thoroughbred racing would develop in the bluegrass region of Kentucky or possibly Ocala, FL; that is where the people with the most at stake reside, and being geographically adjacent would help facilitate organization, discussion, etc.

I believe the Super Shows have a ton of potential, particularly if the organization looks outside of the current class list to promote further performance classes with our small equines. Look to areas such as freestyle dressage to music, dog agility and canine freestyle, Parelli tournaments, arena driving trials, and that sort of thing for inspiration. All over the world with several species, people are having fun with their animals, and that is big business!

I hope this organization reaches its potential and goals. I certainly do support the idea.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

Mona,

you are exactly right from where I sit. My job as president of the group would really become much easier if the changes everyone, including ourselves have identified as needed were at least given some consideration. Maybe this will happen, I hope so for the registry's sake. According to Tom O'Connel a bunch of what we said in our address to them is in the works.

I would love to only market these great little guys and leave the rest up to the registry. Provide some fun venues to be involved in and educate the general public to the joys of these little horses.

But untill all that happens, we will stay involved in the registry as active members making our voice heard whenever we can get an audience with the powers that be. And seek to mold things into a shape that is more acceptable to the majority of the members of the registry.

Everyone has a certain area of concern that is important to them, for some it may be drivng rules, to others it may be the futurity set up, to others it may be absentee voting, to otehrs it may be measuring etc etc. We all will never agree on everything, but I do believe that it is important for everyone to have a voice and to be heard.

It is a very difficult thing that AMHA is trying to do with the set up they have, but I hope they can fiqure a way to be more responsive to the general membership.

Our group in the meantime will not wait on AMHA to solve the problems we have in the marketing and promotion of the American MIniature Horse, we will strive to be active, involved and dedicated to bringing the largest number of people into the breed and provide them activities that are enjoyable and worthwhile. We may not be able to make a difference in the operations set up of AMHA, but we can make a difference in the marketing and promotion area and that is what we are concentrating on. We are betting on it and have put our personal money up to back that effort.

John Cherry

IAMHA


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## Reble (Dec 21, 2006)

Just a thought you mentioned!

6. in the beginning we had members for other states involved and they have dropped out over the course of putting this thing together.

WHY?




:

So true more cash back more cash in. The little farms do not want to pay out any more. We need to make prices more affordable to the smaller farms, that just want to enjoy their Miniature Horses.

My husband and I have already made choices to what shows we show because of politics and money. :Shows even in Ontario, it is who is behind the scenes. Our Opinon.



:


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## miniwhinny (Dec 21, 2006)

sdmini said:


> I'm still lost as to why you feel you couldn't promote miniature horses under the roof of AMHA. As AMHA committee members arenâ€™t you suppose to be protecting and promoting AMHA?



VERY GOOD POINT. I don't understand this either. If you're willing to put up so much money (which you don't hesitate to tell us about like we're supposed to be impressed or something) for a non-registry, shows, promotion etc - then why don't you put it up to help the AMHA? If you really cared then why not put some of that passion and cash into the AMHA? Seems to me that everytime registries split or are formed when there are existing ones it's out of peoples egos and politics.

I'm also not that impressed with you bragging about how people get to "buy" their way in with gazillion dollar commitments which as I said you seem to enjoy telling us all. That obviously counts me out of the BOD HAHAHAHAHHA. With their $$$$$$$ buy-in do they also get to have the rules their own way too.

Promotiing the mini in anway is applaudable...but please...another "non" registry when we already have two that could work way better with a little help. We already have everything we need. A registry to keep those with under 34's happy and one for them and the slightly biggers.

Just my 2 cents worth. Yup only 2 cents...not $500,000 gazillion dollars :bgrin



:



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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

It is really very simple why we choose to work outside the guidelines of AMHA. Within the structure of AMHA you are very encumbered by the set up of the rules and by laws that govern them as a non profit group. We as a small group of people can make decisions faster and more reactive to changing situations in the Industry than they can.

As far as passion is concerned, we do approach these horses with a sense of passion as all of us beleive in the breed itself and think the environment surrounding them can be improved by our actions.

As far as trying to impress you with the contributions everyone in the group has made that is the farthest thing on our minds, but it does indicate how serious we are about our commitment to this breed.

The directors/officers of AMHA are also making major commitments of personal time to help the cause of providing leadership to the registry and some of our members in this group are working diligently in both areas. That is a double whammy as far as other personal commitments to family and the rest of thier lives. I may not agree with what they do on any particular subject, but I do respect the effort they put forth in even being involved.

I hope that whatever comittment you can and or have made to bettering the breed you do with conviction and passion also. If that is only to critque our group and you feel that is the best way to get your thoughts out for all to see, then so be it.

Good Luck and don't hesitate to contact me if you desire anymore iformation,

Another point I forgot, No we do not have everything we need. We need an improved market place for the majority of the industry. We are going to attempt to help that thru our efforts.

Second point the three or four members that left were folks that wanted to start a new registry and when it became evident that was not where the rest of the group wanted to go they stepped out of the group.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2006)

Sorry to drone on and on....and on, BUT you know me- dog + bone etc!!!

This is NOT an International Alliance- it is just not.

Apart from Carina I have heard of ONE person who has heard of it- or are you relying on this board to let Europe and England know? I cannot speak for Australia or NZ as we have not heard form them yet- this will be interesting.

In order for something to be "international" it must be evenhandedly so.

We start off at a disadvantage in that you are interested only in the _[American _ Miniature Horse as opposed to the Miniature Horse, but, OK, I can live with that.

So- what are we being offered, in order that you may claim that this organization is International??

We will get the same number of shows as America- will we??

We will get the same amount of money invested in us as America does will we??

And, since it is not proportional to the number of horses in America, it will not be so divided in Europe, or in Australia or NZ or wherever, for that matter.

Wherever in the world there are Miniature Horses, this society will provide shows, seminars, prizes, etc- will it??

When pigs fly it will- what just as AMHA does???

Drop the "International" bit, it isn't and never will be- or make me eat my words (I can, you know)- go on, surprise me, put some time and effort into making all your members equal.

Start out with postal voting instead of making us wait 20 odd years.

Until I see proof this is just another American society, nothing more, nothing less, for American members.

As to it being a wake up call to the AMHA- if it were to be that then it would be worth the membership fee just for that alone!!!


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## runaway ranch (Dec 21, 2006)

Hmmm.... lots to think about. I'm trying to keep an open mind. Very interesting reading.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

Below is part of an email we got this morning after the release yesterday in Europe, sorry you were missed though. It was translated in to Dutch and German also just for informations sake.

Also as far as having a ton of things that we can do for the international people, you are right it is somewhat limited. But we do plan of putting on some seminars in Europe maybe as soon as this coming summer and also are very aware of continued problems they have had and are having in the mini Industry.

Personally Cindy and I have had a European representative for a little over 3 years that works co-operatively with us.

*Dear John, *

The mail was sent to 107 European members. It went to England, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Russia, Spain, Holland, Norway, Belgium. Thusfar still many reaction by phone and mail. Most are positive, many people offer to help us in case it is necessary, so they seem to be happy.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2006)

Seminars we can do very nicely for ourselves, Thank you- how about some big prize shows????


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

Jane,

There are others in the European community that disagree with you and have requested exactly that from our members. So even though you fell you don't need them, we have included them in our agenda and are working out the details to satisfy those that want the information that we can supply.


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## miniwhinny (Dec 21, 2006)

Well, I must say, you do seem to have some pretty good answers to questions people have raised, including my own, more so I'm impressed that you've answered them in such a professional manner. I also understand that everything takes time, including getting overseas shows etc organized.

I wish you luck with this new venture. You seem very commited to making it a success. If what you are planning turns out even half as good as what you are suggesting then how can it not help the miniature horse and more exposure and more "pulling power" may get the desired reults from the exisiting registries too.

Good luck and I'm looking forward to attending (and joining) events here in the Pacific Northwest.




:


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## Frankie (Dec 21, 2006)

> 4. In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry, create an organization/registry with the mission and structure to protect all current investments, and lead the breed without personal bias.


The above statement is what really bothers me.

WHO from your group decides the AMHA is failing in those areas?

And this part at the end,,,,,,,,,,,,,



> and lead the breed without personal bias.


Does not fit well with the rest of the statement. Or the rest of your mission.

IMO,,,,,,whoever decides the AMHA is failing,,,,,,may be/ could be making that based on personal bias.

As in,,,,,,,your opinion is different that theirs,,,,,,,,you just don't agree,,,,,,,,,

just like you don't agree with Jane right now.

It all goes back to,,,,,,,,,Who thinks THEY are right.

What makes your group more right?? And by whose standards???

That is politics.


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

Well I woukld think that the question about who decides is pretty clear, our founding members will. Again though hopefully this decision never has to be made as we all hope that AMHA is sucessful for many years to come.

There has always since my family got involved in miniatures ( 19 years ago) been a stigma attached to the activities that were avaible that some folks got special treatment because of who they knew or who they were. All of us have seen this and it is talked about again and again on this forum. With that said I think we all know a part of it is human nature, but as much as possibly we beleive it is healthy to try and promote an active and level playing field for everyone. This will be addressed to our judges when we start to interview them and also will be taken into account by the show review board.

As far as being right, we of course think we know the proper answers to most questions, but that is a matter of opinion for everyone to decide for themselves. We have taken a stand and hopefull clearly stated where we are at. And if needed I hope the parties that disagree can agree to disagree respectfully.

John Cherry

IAMHA


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## sedeh (Dec 21, 2006)

I read this thread last night and again today. I am an AMHA member but mainly because I triple register my mini's and show Pinto. So I'm not emotionally invested in AMHA. I can see both sides of this issue. I have to say when I first read through the letters that IAMHA were sending to AMHA I thought they addressed the problems and possible solutions very well. The only problem I had is that they had a threatening feel to me. Then further on when IAMHA basically said they would step in and pick up the pieces if AMHA fails I really wondered what their real intent was. I'm all for any group that is for promoting miniatures but I don't want them to undermine the current registries. I know that John Cherry has been very active answering these posts and "smoothing" things over......but I sincerely hope that their goal is to promote the mini's and not sabotage AMHA. Only time will tell I'm afraid.


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## Lonesome Dove (Dec 21, 2006)

There's no hidden agenda here. I've known most of the founders, some better than others, for several years. They are all highly respected in the industry. They are people of integrity and want nothing but the best for the miniature horse and those that love them.


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## skanzler (Dec 21, 2006)

Still reading and thinking...... Lots of good questions and alot alot of great answers. But the bottom line still remains for me. Why if alot of these people are on commitees and on the BOD can they not impliment the changes needed within AMHA without going outside the organization. And why can the money that they are so willing to put up, not be put into the promotion department of AMHA to promote the miniature horse. I just do not understand this portion of it. I also have a question that was never answered in my previous post.

What good will you do the small farms, breeders, trainers etc, by organizing everything in Texas??????? That is not where most of the small breeders etc are. We are located outside the "Big Money State". You are putting on this big paying show in the heart of where all the money is being put up. That to me makes no sense. You are only putting the money back in YOUR pocket. How many of the small farms and breeders can afford to travel to Texas???????? I would think you would explore putting on this type of show in an area most impacted from low turn out and small farms etc. I know that sometimes this becomes a no win situation. As I am sure alot of people will think that their area is the one in need of help. But to put it in your own back yard, looks a little weird to me.... Just my opinion.

I am sorry, but this group just looks to me like another way for the big farms that can and have been asked to participate are the ones that will benefit the most from the Association. When you get done showcasing your horses, what will be left for the rest of us small breeders?????? You all have the big ads in the magazines, four page layouts etc. We can barely afford to put a half page black and white in the World, let alone put alot of extra money into promotions etc.

You keep saying that this will help all people, but I just don't see it............

I guess we will all just have to wait and see........


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## HGFarm (Dec 21, 2006)

Rabbits, I dont think ANY of us knew about this til the first post yesterday and I got my email when I got home from work. And I agree with you in your points.

Sedeh, I agree also with your comments regarding the threatening manner in which things were written. It is in print, and I got the same thing out of it. Even by putting the verbiage in there about AMHA failing is totally inappropriate!! This sounds like 'we are doing this in spite of you, not with or for you'. I find this is another way of continuing the 'scare tactics' and put doubts in people's minds that AMHA will continue on, and WHO is going to join into a breed with this kind of issue in print in public?!!!

I do not see at all how this is going to help the 'small guy' who is the main meat of the registries... I also cannot afford big huge fees for shows in hopes of getting some money back (if possible) or travelling to other states to compete at these shows.

I also dont see how these supershows are going to do anything to promote the breed to folks who dont have Minis? Are they going to be advertised in the cutting horse or warmblood publications?

At this time, I am still sticking to my guns with the statement made regarding why, if folks could invest time and money in something like this, why it couldnt be done through AMHA. And WHY was the AMHA president unaware, as stated earlier, about all the issues that folks were unhappy about?!! Aren't our directors, BOD and reprentatives talking to these issues as they arise? Some of these issues are not new.


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## skanzler (Dec 21, 2006)

OK Mary Lou...... I do use you too...



I love LB, I have sold alot of horse here. This is a invaluable board and I will continue to use it



: Thank you Mary Lou for bringing my feet back to earth :lol:


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## Magic (Dec 21, 2006)

JWC sr. said:


> It is really very simple why we choose to work outside the guidelines of AMHA. Within the structure of AMHA you are very encumbered by the set up of the rules and by laws that govern them as a non profit group. We as a small group of people can make decisions faster and more reactive to changing situations in the Industry than they can.



I don't understand just what this is supposed to accomplish. Sure, your group can implement something like measuring changes-- measure at the withers at your "super shows" but what does that do??? I don't see that hastening in a change in the other registries to do the same thing.

And as for the IAMHA shows being held on different weekends than registry shows-- well that is all fine and good, BUT-- most people can only afford to go to a certain number of shows, so they have to pick and choose which shows they will attend. It would make sense that many would choose a "payback" show over a sanctioned, points-only show, which would certainly impact the number of people at the sanctioned shows.

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but with this group a "for-profit" organization, I fear that it will end up undermining the miniature registries, even if inadvertantly, in order to make money.


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## Debby - LB (Dec 21, 2006)

sdmini said:


> Coming from a quarter horse background Iâ€™m very familiar with both NCHA (national cutting horse association) and NRHA (national reining horse association). Both offer large paybacks, both are very expensive to â€œplayâ€. Those huge payouts come with large entry fees. I know some people who bought a colt, at auction, for around $1,500. That horse went on to place Top Ten in one division for NCHA. He also had a $30,000 trainer bill and show fees in the first 60 days.
> 
> AQHAâ€™s (American Quarter Horse Association) boast the largest equine numbers at 3,224,096 they register over 165,000 foals a year yet participation at their shows has been dropping over the years. The answer is two fold. One is the specialized venues is leaching off participants. The other and largest is that it is hard for the average joe to compete and compete successfully against the big names and big money.
> 
> ...


Insert the Hit the nail on the head emoticon -HERE- ......Well said


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2006)

JWC sr. said:


> Jane,
> 
> There are others in the European community that disagree with you and have requested exactly that from our members. So even though you fell you don't need them, we have included them in our agenda and are working out the details to satisfy those that want the information that we can supply.


But that is ALL you are doing- how about doing what the rest of us want????????

We have had it to the back teeth with seminars- let's have some SHOWS!!!!!!


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## SunQuest (Dec 21, 2006)

John and all with IMHA,

Thank you for putting together a plan that has both the problems and solutions addressed. I can tell that much time and thought has been put forth on this endever.

But, like many others I am skeptical as to what is going on here. There are good points raised on both sides of this issue, and I am not sure where I stand on it.

But, I will say that all of the activities you have planned are in areas where shows and such are very prevalent. These areas are already well represented for the most part.

I will ask a question that has been asked on this thread before. What about those in the areas where there is no representation from either registery? Some of these areas have huge big horse populations and marketing in those areas is what is really needed. Just look at my state for an example of this. I live in Boise, Idaho. This is the 3rd largest city population wise in the NW with only Seattle and Portland being larger, but yet there is very little to no activity here from AMHR or AMHA (I will say that I feel I have heard more from AMHR than AMHA in my area). In fact, one of our neighboring cities (Nampa) has a facility called the "Idaho Horse Park" or "Idaho Center" http://www.idahohorsepark.com/Tour.htm that is or has been built to get large scale horse venues here to the state and even has a veterinary clinic, horse/feed supply store, barns, parking and hotels to accomodate those with horses. Yet where is the representation at this facility for the miniature breeds?

I know, people here have to do the work to promote the breed which various individuals and groups have tried to do for years and still are working on, but areas like this could use some help and are ripe for the pickings from those that have been successful in doing so. Putting on big name events in this area would do nothing but promote the breed, yet there are so few people here doing this that finding enough volunteers to host a show is difficult at best. (I am not placing blame for the lack of promotion here in our area on others, but rather pointing out that mentoring in areas like ours would do nothing but help the market as a whole.)

IMO, If the registeries want growth, then they need to target areas to promote where there is room for that growth as well as maintain the interest in areas that are saturated.

So I am not going to form an opinion at this point. I can clearly see both sides of the issue, and what IMHA does will prove their intent in the long term.

And as I final note, I was one of the individuals that actually paid to get a copy of the paperwork from the state of TX to see who were on the BOD of GLM which was going to use AMHA's computers to offer services to other registeries. And yep, at the time I shared that paper with anyone who was interested in seeing names and I still have a copy of the Articles of Organization for a limited Liability Company. And like others I have been around to see other scandels in AMHA, and due to this, my trust is severly lacking. I feel that questioning the motives of those who serve AMHA and those who are founding IMHA is a VERY healthy thing given the track record of the past.

*Edited to add....* I am *glad* to see that *none* of the BOD of IMHA was listed as part of the situation with that occured when GLM was created. That does make me trust them slightly more....


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## OhHorsePee (Dec 21, 2006)

> 7. The benefits for a small farm are pretty apparent to me, we are striving to bring new people into the industry, additionally we want to create a buzz in the mini community that should help implement change that everyone has talked about here and elsewhere non-stop for months on end. That coupled with the educational oppurtunites we are planning should be fun for everyone involved.


I'm sorry, this does not explain or demonstrate how this up and coming organization will benefit a small farm. Please do not dance around the question. You are in Texas and this organization are all Texans if I am understanding it right. Not that I have anything against Texans!!! Bringing in new people is a nice idea, but how will those people know that these small farms are out there? Wont these same people that you will be marketing to/educating and promoting to only be seeing the faces and names of you and your constituents? It's almost as if you will be marketing your own farms so how will this help us? You have used your own monetary means but you also get that as a write off.

As far as taking out the politics in the show ring, NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Unless you make people show with paper bags over their heads and wear the same style and color of jackets it will go on as it has. Just life. Just sucks.

Fran


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## Joanne (Dec 21, 2006)

Here we go again!

It is certainly disconcerting that there are individuals within the AMHA official capacity that are discussing the demise of the organization, rather than how to avoid that possibility. Especially as these are people that were voted in by us as members to serve FOR the AMHA. Unfortunately we have seen this in politics, businesses, and clubs, so this is nothing new. The American Miniature Horse Association and Registry has had to overcome numerous problems over its history. Without a doubt 2006 was a rocky one.

As Jane from â€œacross the pondâ€ mentioned, this is certainly NOT an â€œINTERNATIONALâ€ organization.

I am all for promoting miniature horses. I too think that the prices have fallen too low for the quality horses that are being produced. We must all do our share to promote them. As we all know, each time a person sees our minis, we have the opportunity to inform others about the breed. We have used our minis in 4 H programs, in local parades, and local horse shows, to the delight of the audiences. There is no question that promoting miniature horses could be improved.

Ultimately there will need to be financing to keep this new group alive. They can keep it going with seed money for a while, but eventually there will need to be a great deal of financial aid to keep it afloat.

I am all for the democracy of free speech to inform. I do believe, however, that my own hard earned money must support the two legitimate organizations that have registries, and are already internationally recognized.

Over the last almost ten years LB has done a great deal to promote miniature horses over the internet, both nationally and internationally. I commend the work they have done.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 21, 2006)

Actually, Yes, you are absolutely right there- I have found the people I shall work with in the future on here, nothing to do with ANY ads, pictures or hard sell- just nice people who have allowed us all to see their horses in winter, summer sickness and in health.

Who have proven themselves trustworthy and good, honest horse lovers.

You cannot buy that sort of "publicity"!!!!


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

Only time will tell if we can be sucessful with the plans we have made. And with that said the majority of you have valid points of view, with some reasoning behind them, For that input I thank you. It is being noted and hopefully will influence the places and venues that we visit in the coming years.

I already have two venues that have been suggestted to me directly from people on this board. Those are being referred to the committee in charge of that end of things. We do not know your areas and need this type input to make good decisions.

I am not going to quible over the portion of the name "International" that is what we decided on and I hope to make it fit, even if some folks do not want to be involved.

JoAnne is exactly right in that it is going to take a lot of money to accomplish the plans we have laid out, further money is limited when it comes to any new endeavor. But I believe we are financed well enough for the time being, even though we will probablly have to add more to the coffers over the next couple of years to maintain our momentum. We are prepared to so.

One other thing I thought I would mention, everyone is looking at this group as a group of large farms. Just for informations sake, yes we do have a couple of large ones and that does not make them bad guys, but the size of each farms involved ranges from 25 horse up, some are halter people, some are driving people,some use trainers, some don't, some fit & show the horses they breed, some don't, 1 is a trainer/breeder. It is a very diverse group that bring a lot of different abilities to the table which is one reason they are here. In every case though they are honest and hard working people that all have a common goal.

Yes we are all Texans and we are starting our campain in Texas, that to me makes sense from several standpoints. One in that it will be easier to iron out any problems, which I am sure there will be a few in our backyard so to speak before traveling across the country.

Secondly we have a large pool of people to pull from here as far as outside the MINI industry that we in the group know. People such as all the exhibitors, stud farms and trainers located around the Weatherford area in the cutting world. As just one example of the folks we know and hope to attract to the mini's.

The demographic of the people we are targeting are folks that are already active in the equine sports, folks that have been involved in equine sports in the past and that have gotten out due to health/age, people that have been involved elsewhere but found it too expensive to compete in the other breeds, folks that have children that want them to have an equine experience but have limited property to work with. These are just a few examples of what we are looking for. Those type people abound here in Texas in a few key places and that is where we are starting, It will be an easier sell if you will and the results should be fairly immediate.

Hopefully those type people get interested by our exhibitions, go to a seminar, attend a show or two and then buy a horse or two for the wife or kids to start showing. If they do we have accomplished one of our goals, the registry wins by getting a new family registering horses and they have to buy that horse from somewhere. This is not a nice idea, it is where the rubber meets the road so to speak for all of us that breed and love these little horses. More people, more things to do with the horses we own, more sales, more revenue for the registry etc. etc.

On a thread I read here at LB someone mentioned that they felt that even though the numbers of members in AMHA did not reflect a decrease, that they believed we are only replacing folks as they leave and not holding on to those old owners and adding new ones.

That is a deep thought if you will stop and think about it. It was those type comments we paid attention to when we decided to try and fill a niche with activities for old and new owners alike in order to try and keep them where they are, because the are statisfied with the content of teh group they associate with. Not the same old deal, but something fun and exciting.

Will the members of our group get a share of those sales yes hopefully we will. But in this day of internet savy, these type people do thier homework so to speak before they spend thier money.

And that is where Boards like Lil Beginnings come in. This board is a wonderful asset to the mini community and it provides a service for those that post here and also for those that want to learn as newbies. The classified adds and the sales board are assets that will be used by these new folks more than likely.

You can't really understand how important places like this are to the overall health of the industry, till you start watching the number of hits and inquries that are generated from a web site like this. This one has a bunch, trust me I have done my homework also, which is one of the reasons I have spent so much time answering all the questions that have been ask here. The folks on here are important and the opinions they have need to be listened too. I hope AMHA/AMHR is watching and listening too to all of us too.

John Cherry


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## horsefeather (Dec 21, 2006)

Well said John. I don't understand those who keep questioning "how is it going to help ME?" It's the trickle down theory. If this works (and I SO hope it does) in Texas, then it will expand. When it expands, it will eventually reach even the outer most areas. As for 'just using the LB for contacts,' MOST of the people here already own horses and while it is comforting to purchase from folks you kinda know, it still isn't reaching the majority of the public (those we would like to see purchase their first mini). Please don't think I am bashing LB, I love it and use it and think it is certainly a VERY important board. But we definately need more folks attracted to our little ones. We (hubby & I) no longer breed and sell minis (hurt the heart too much!) but really look forward to shows. Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of the shows are SO intense, people chasing points (yep, me too) that the fun has gone out of showing. I would love to have something unique I could show in. I would love to get into the part about 'letting the existing clubs make these changes' but, even tho I do talk too much, I'm really not that CRAZY!!




:

Pam


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## razmusen (Dec 21, 2006)

â€œOur founding member group has an American Miniature Horse herd inventory valued at more than $5M and includes what is believed to be the largest group of Champion American Miniature Horses ever assembled! We also have the most comprehensive collection of breeding stallion bloodlines in the world.

Whoop Te Doooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! Would you like a standing ovation??????????

I have never felt compelled enough to go through the registration process to post to this forum "until NOW".

These people start off by bragging about what they have and it is apparent that they have spent lots of time and effort on this "group" that should have been directed toward AMHA. I personally view it as rich people trying to intimidate AMHA. Wake up people, this is a wealthy group looking to get wealthier at the expense of AMHA (mine and your registry). I am sorry that I cannot respect this at all and hope you don't fall for it either. We need to pull together to try and protect our investment instead of forming alliances to "Be there to pick up the pieces if AMHA should fail". :no:


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## nootka (Dec 21, 2006)

If I had to choose one registry, it would be the AMHA. Was just discussing this with a friend, recently. The numbers are there, time and again. I get more for an AMHA only registered mini than I will get for the same horse with only AMHR papers. Just a fact in this region and for the last 11 years that I have had minis.

Granted, I am a SMALL fish, with one to three foals per year, but if I'm going to have just a few, I want them to be the best quality I can afford, and when I offer a foal, I want it to be suitable for just about anything a person would want to do with them.

AMHA gives me the best value.

I am surprised by the news of this new "alliance" but the more I turn it over in thought, the less threatening it seems to be, and I'm prepared to wait and see, and even be a part of it if it looks to be enjoyable and beneficial to me in my geographical and financial situation.

I enjoy showing more than anything, and while my opportunities to go to shows are limited, I'm certainly not going to say no to more possibilities.

The idea behind the alliance seems fine to me, to promote and expand the possibilities with these horses as well as the people that will be interested.

My reservations include an organization like this pooling too many "big fish" and becoming a negative controlling factor within an already "steered" organization. I don't mind that the big fish do this, because obviously they have more to lose or gain since they spend more money, etc., it's the name of the game so to speak, but I do mind if it gets to be exclusive to the point of disuse for me and if that becomes the case, I'm out.

If AMHA goes under, I will likely stop breeding and just keep a few pets for whatever reason, as I can't see raising high quality mare foals and great geldings and have to sell them for less than $1000 .

Not interested in any registry other than AMHA and AMHR, but I see the possibilities of something like this, and so I leave my mind open and will continue to form opinions as decisions are made and acted on.

Obviously of little consequence, MY decision, but still hoping it is good for everyone in the long run.

Liz M.


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## Cathy_H (Dec 21, 2006)

Sounds like a very big EXPENSIVE undertaking to me to be financed by _____???? We small breeders/exhibitors with limited funds cannot afford many more costs. I'm assuming "if we wanna play we gotta pay" or we will be left behind again.....



: .................. Seems to me that if all of this energy had been directed into solving current AMHA problems, a few more things might have been crossed off of the to do list...... I do like some of the things planned but if I'm a dissatisfied member of an organization which includes decision makers with their own agenda - why would I want to be a part of another one planned by them?


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## Viki (Dec 21, 2006)

I fail to see where this 'alliance' will be a benefit to any of us! They don't even say their â€˜showsâ€™ will be affordable!

Why on EARTH would anyone want to spend money with them when they can actually PROMOTE their horses with AMHA?????

I think this group has every intention of becoming a registry (Foundation Stallions page) AND they want to retain their AMHA positions to undermine the organization. Otherwise, why HAVEN'T they resigned their positions??????

I feel strongly that the people involved should resign from positions in AMHA or be impeached out of the positions!

Just my very humble opinion.


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## OhHorsePee (Dec 21, 2006)

> Well said John. I don't understand those who keep questioning "how is it going to help ME?" It's the trickle down theory.


I asked what was in it for the small farms not just for me. That is a logical question. If I make a decision on something I want that decision to be an informed one. Why would I or anyone else join something if there was nothing in it for them or myself. Mr. Cherry is here answering questions so this is the appropriate time to ask.

I have a few more questions. On your site there is a segment that states "Where can I buy a small miniature horse?" Then there is an email addy to email your organization. Who receives these emails? Also will individuals interested in purchasing be given all members contact info for purchases or just a select few? And why, since your organization recognizes minis up to 38" does it say "small miniature horse?"

Thank You

Fran


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## JWC sr. (Dec 21, 2006)

I will try and answer all the question at once if I may, and I have no problem answering any of your questions as long we keep it from getting to be negative dialogue that does not help anyone.

1. Yes we have a lot of horses represnted in our group and many of them are champions, we are proud of them and just like the folks that have only one horse love touting them from time to time. Personally I am very proud of the breeding program and the strides my wife Cindy has made in the production of better and better horses each year. Give me half a chance and I will tell you all about it. i am proud of her and her horses and am not ashamed of it.

2. Nootha, I only wish we could control or even effect the described steering of the association as it today. Unfortunatly we can't, but we can work towards doing what we think needs to be done in the industry. We can also hope that the powers that be will institute some of our concerns that were addressed in our letter to them. I want to thank you for the wait and see attitude, as that is all I can ask for.

3. Vikki, no we DO NOT want to be a registry. additionally I think the actions of the folks on the AMHA BOD and in our group speak for themselves as far as being a positive influence on the board. Sometimes I have not agreed with positions they have taken, but I will continue to respect the time and effort all of the board members put in for free, even the ones I completely disagree with.

4. Fran we wanted to include everyone in the miniature industry and we had a lot of discussions about this. Finally it was agreed we wanted to include not exclude anyone that wanted to be involved. I have two horses personally on the farm that are over 34" and we breed exclusively for the smaller horses( those are two older mares we have kept from back when we were only an "R" farm) because we like the smaller horses , but there are folks that are big admirers of the 34 - 38" horse, so we included them. We also plan on having a complete division in our shows that are for the quarter horse/ stock horse type so people that have them can have a special place to show and not have to compete with the new more refined style horse. I edited this to answer your other question about the emails, for the time being the emails are being collected by our group for future use in the programs we will have for the group in the near future. And yes before you ask others than just the founding members will be allowed to particpate.

Also everyone please forgive me for my terrible spelling and typing skills, sometimes I get in too big a hurry to get my thoughts written.

John Cherry


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## Russ (Dec 21, 2006)

So who does receive and answer the emails from this organizations website?


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## Minimor (Dec 21, 2006)

With all the talk about International, I haven't yet seen any mention made of Canada. Jane, all they need to do is open this to Canada, and then it will be "international". A big money show in the US, with Canadians allowed to show--and I believe that for good prize money you just might see some Canadians competing there, even if the only show (to start with) is in Texas--and there you would have "international". Sorry to disillusion you, but it doesn't take England or Europe to make this international. :lol:

Frankly I don't see anything wrong with this concept. As I said to a friend earlier today, at this point in time there's nothing in this new organization for me--but with the trickle down effect and with the possibility of future expansion, there could be something in it for me somewhere in the future. In the meantime I don't feel it's going to do me any harm, and so if I had to give my yay or nay vote on it, I would vote "yay".

Now, has anyone yet suggested that IAMHA hold it's first outside-of-the-USA show....in Canada??? A show held smack dab in central Canada....say Manitoba....would not be interfering with any local AMHA or AMHR sanctioned shows. Perfect. :bgrin


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## razmusen (Dec 21, 2006)

I would say that you probably shouldn't get your hopes up too much about International Miniature Horse Shows put on by this "Alliance". I bet there aren't many, If ANY...... I would bet that most shows will be in Texas with a few being put on in other states just for the looks of things. Regardless of where the shows are, I am guessing that there is only so much "show money" to go around and folks will not be able to afford all of these shows. The fact that people will spend their money with this "Alliance" says that there will be less money for people to spend showing at AMHA shows. This alone is a very negative impact on AMHA.

I cannot see that this "Alliance" will strengthen AMHA at all. I am so disappointed that this group of folks were spending their time creating this "Alliance" while we, AMHA members, thought that they were looking out for the greater good of our organization. This just seems so deceiving. I just can't help but feel this way.


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## wildoak (Dec 21, 2006)

> These people start off by bragging about what they have and it is apparent that they have spent lots of time and effort on this "group" that should have been directed toward AMHA. I personally view it as rich people trying to intimidate AMHA. Wake up people, this is a wealthy group looking to get wealthier at the expense of AMHA (mine and your registry).


While I think the jury is still out on whether this will prove to be a good thing or not, I do not believe anyone is "bragging". I think it speaks to the level of their commitment and their depth of experience that these folks have achieved some success in the industry and that they are willing to risk their own hard earned funds to put this together. It does take considerable finances to bring a large project to reality - and lets face it, it's generally not the small farms or individuals who have the wherewithall to do it.

Jan


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## Neil (Dec 22, 2006)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Hmmm... never mind...


Too late Mary Lou, I already read it.



:


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## Reble (Dec 22, 2006)

We all have a right to our opinons

Mary Lou now you have us wondering :bgrin "Hmmm... never mind..."


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## maryann (Dec 22, 2006)

Is it correct that you have been planning this for a year? And during that year a large protion of your founders were on the AMHA BOD? If this is true then it smacks of a huge conflict of interest! For instance ,if in the last year the BOD of AMHA would have made any positive headway in correcting or addressing some of the problems of the AMHA then there would be no reason for an Alliance that is out to "FIX" All the problems in AMHA that you addressed in your announcement. So it would have been more beneficial to your Alliance for more problems to arise or to draw attention to the problems that existed , instead of trying to solve them. If this is a for profit Alliance then even more so. Some how that seems like the fox may be in the henhouse . I hope I am wrong. But... hmmmmm......? maryann


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## JWC sr. (Dec 22, 2006)

This is the last post about IAMHA that I will make out of respect for the concerns Mary Lou has about us possibly being in conflict with her TOS etc. .





This site is too good for the industry for me to take a chance that she might feel a sense of conflict. I respect and believe in what she is doing here and do not want to be part of any problem real or just percieved. :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Mary Lou if you want to email me directly I will be more than glad discuss this with you.

thanks to all for the lively discussion everyone, it has been fun in a lot of ways.

Respectfully,

:saludando:

John cherry

IAMHA President


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## Jill (Dec 22, 2006)

Since John isn't going to post anymore, I hope this thread can be closed. I hate to see it go where only one side (those opposed) are vocal. I sure don't know enough about IAMHA to say much, but I am still really mystified as to why so many are upset. It sounds like it aims to give us more chances to show and the increase the visibility / public knowledge of our breed.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 22, 2006)

Yes, I agree that would be most fair.


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Dec 22, 2006)

I keep thinking... OH CRAP! For those of you that have been in minis long enough to remember when the original association split, this happened before. If some of you wonder why some horses are exclusively AMHR, or AMHA... it was all politics and $$$.

If you are applauding this new organization.... think of how much $$$$ you are going to have to put out to get your herd of minis registered in this new organiztion, otherwise in the future, people may look at you sale horse and say.... gee I would buy him but its too bad he isn't registered with.....

CRAP!


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## anita (Dec 22, 2006)

Jill said:


> Since John isn't going to post anymore, I hope this thread can be closed. I hate to see it go where only one side (those opposed) are vocal. I sure don't know enough about IAMHA to say much, but I am still really mystified as to why so many are upset. It sounds like it aims to give us more chances to show and the increase the visibility / public knowledge of our breed.



I am with you Jill.

Finally some people have the guts and courage to do something, I appreciate that. Its more than time!

Its a free country they can do what ever they please. And its not the law to participate with IAMHA. If you don't like it stay away, that simple.

Gentlemen I applaud for you patience

Thank you

Anita


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## Debby - LB (Dec 22, 2006)

maryann said:


> Is it correct that you have been planning this for a year? And during that year a large protion of your founders were on the AMHA BOD? If this is true then *it smacks of a huge conflict of interest! For instance ,if in the last year the BOD of AMHA would have made any positive headway in correcting or addressing some of the problems of the AMHA then there would be no reason for an Alliance that is out to "FIX" All the problems in AMHA that you addressed in your announcement.* So it would have been more beneficial to your Alliance for more problems to arise or to draw attention to the problems that existed , instead of trying to solve them. If this is a for profit Alliance then even more so. Some how that seems like the fox may be in the henhouse . I hope I am wrong. But... hmmmmm......? maryann


My thoughts exactly.

I too think this thread should be locked. Also I see it as a *big* slap in the face of AMHA.

For those of you who continue to NOT SEE the big deal, and I've noticed that you happen to be (mostly) the one's who breed and show B size.....nothing wrong with that, but _please_ understand that some of us see this as a HUGE deal.

This group of people, some entrusted to run OUR registry for us, have formed and alliance whose goals go outside the AMHA standards.

If all this passion (and money) were focused on promoting the 34 and under horse within the AMHA it would be wonderful! ...But to sit on the board and be a part of the committees and then for all this time being focused on your own money making endeavors by gathering statistics within the organization is sickening to me.

I don't like the threatening tone to the letter, I don't like the scenario of a vulture sitting waiting to pick the bones of what's left of AMHA after some of these big money farms start putting on their own shows and entice others to show with them for big money prizes -which in turn takes money from AMHA shows....but of course this new alliance will be there in place when AMHA folds.....

I Also agree with those who want resignations. I'll say it again.....it's SAD

AMHA needed you and as long as you've been involved if you'd been using your passion for the job you were supposed to be doing for us we'd be sitting on the eve of our legitimate concerns being new laws by now. :no:


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## Debby - LB (Dec 22, 2006)

This is my last post of this I promise, I got to get to work.

But in answer to Allison above yes you are correct and a very valid point, I do like the idea behind most of their proposals and I do commend them for trying something.

BUT to put your relationship with the Bread Company up to the test....how long would you be working for them if you used another companies bread in your classes?

Only an observation, no harm intended to you by saying this.


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## Cathy_H (Dec 22, 2006)

Well if nothing ever comes of the IAMHA, perhaps this WILL be a wake up call to AMHA to fix the problems or else........ I personnally feel this is an agenda planned by those with money geared toward those with money. Sort of like a private club where you will pay your dues & you will be catered to. A list of those farms/breeders etc that will be made known to the public advertised in such a way that if you aren't on their list then you are not where it is at! A glorified sale ad for the elite few promoting those that can afford it......... I also see a bigger divide between those that have & those that do not.... Remember if this comes to be & it is not what the followers were told & assumed then it can also be undone!.............. I am not for or against but I do not see it benefiting me the small time breeder/exhibitor with limited funds.


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## Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too (Dec 22, 2006)

I have thought long and hard about this whole proposition before responding and have read most if not all the replies. The general concensus seems to be one of distrust for this new idea and that is not such a bad thing considering the past happenings with AMHA. It still comes down to choice to support it or not and that is everyone's right but if the unhappiness about it comes as the result of the past, I would hope to see those with concerns take steps to reclaim AMHA rather than starting a new entity to work in conjunction with it but perhaps this is the only way to do it.

I am an ex-AMHA member only because it's the only organization I've been involved in where I had no avenue to voice my concerns or to even get information. I had written to my area rep on several occasions before giving up my membership only to be met with silence and indifference. I was told to write to another area rep but what is the purpose in doing that? My concerns were for my area not hers so how would she champion anything about someone's concerns from out of her area effectively. Each area has their own issues to worry about.

I think it's high time that active AMHA members step up to the plate and quit bemoaning the unfairness and force changes or relinquish their membership as I have. I have no motivation to press for changes as I don't breed or show but those that do depend on AMHA for this purpose are the ones who need to push for change. Maybe that is why those on the BOD on AMHA that are now involved with promoting this new organization see it as a way to inflict some badly needed changes they can't effect otherwise. If so, more power to them.


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## AJ (Dec 22, 2006)

My first reaction is: For Texans, BY Texans, IN Texas..

Could this be the start of a new registry for Texas only where a very high percentage of mini's and larger farms are located? There are likely enough horses in Texas to sustain a registry and with the big money shows I can see the prices for horses of these bigger players escalating to compete in the money circuit.


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## Jane=P (Dec 22, 2006)

Can U post this to lil beginnings? I think it will clarify John' note. Tom O'Connell AMHA Treasurer www.crystalridgefarm.com

[Kay Kay,

thanks for that. I agree with you that AMHA has sent several different messages to all of us, with the disparagy in the financial reports and then the vocalizations from the e board members. I heard from Tom Oconnel today and he made the statement that this was not true and I am sending him an email in a few minutes to get him to clarify what he meant so as not to get bad data or information out there in the public domain.

I do think though whatever the case is as far as numbers that there is indeed a large amount of improvement that can be achieved in letting folks in the general public and also the other parts of the equine community about our great little horses. That is exactly what we intend to do, along with all the other things I mentioned above.

We would love to see AMHA & AMHR become the largest two equine registries in the country and we intend to do our part in that growth by attracting new folks in and keepng the existing ones involved in the industry as much as we can. This will benefit everyone in the industry.

John Cherry

President IAMHA]

Tom,

I have referred this to Kenny for his comments also, but in reality since you have been in office I have not seen any major problems or disparage. Prior to that though the way that things were reported and other things that have been questioned even by your administration were different to what is normally seen from an organization such as AMHA in my opinion. I am sure the CPA's that are employed by the registry are competent and give a true evaluation of the information provided to them.

In any case let me know if you have further questions. John Cherry

My response :

John

Someone has sent me ( cut and pasted an answer you sent that appears on lil beginnings)

the following. I take strong EXCEPTION to your statement on the "disparagy in the financial reports". Please provide specifics on what drove you to make this statement. Our financials are certified by Texas CPA's ............ are you saying they have prepared/provided the AMHA with erroneous certifications? I think they also may take exception to your words here................ Of course, if these are not your words, you should let people know ............

TOM OCONNELL


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## Darkstar (Dec 22, 2006)

I like alot of the solutions to the problems within the registries that this group have addressed. They have alot of very good ideas. However, these problems need to be fixed inside the registries not outside. The IAMHA is not the solution to these problems. If we want these problems resolved, we as members must get involved and change them within the respective organizations that we belong to.

The IAMHA by it's very nature is very deceiving. It should actually be called the TAMHA. (Texas AMHA) They have very good promotion and marketing ideas and I aplaud them all for taking the intiative to market miniature horses. However, they will be selling the IAMHA not the AMHA or AMHR. The most benefit will be focused on the founding members farms. This is all fine and good as it is their money and we do live in a free market. I do, however, have a problem with them asking for my money ( through membership and fees ) when the primary benefit is going to be the founding members farms.

We all should learn something from all this. There is a need to increase the miniature horse market and we should all be part of that. In order for us all to benefit the most, we should incorporated some of the IAMHA's promotion and marketing ideas into our own miniature horse clubs and registries. This will benefit everyone including the registries.

Again, if we want to fix some of these problems, we must all get more involved within the registries. Will it be easy? probably not, but it is the only way go in order to keep the organizations (AMHA & AMHR) strong.


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## zacharyfarms (Dec 22, 2006)

What's not to like about this group? More venues for miniature horse promotion...some with purses attached..sounds great to me. I am a small breeder of carefully chosen miniature horses primarily 30" and under who has had the luxury to be able to weather the storm of dropping prices by holding on to my stock until the appropriate buyer has surfaced while maintaining my price point. I am a one man show as far as operation is concerned and in my area of East Tennessee there are very few shows anywhere even remotely close. I rely on advertisement and resulting interest from Shows where advertisement has been displayed or distributed. Advertisement and Promotion are the keys to success with any business. Advertising and promotion cooperatives are typically financially effective for everyone involved. I have recently been involved with the formation of the International Miniature Appaloosa and Pintaloosa Club and we just submitted our first ad to The Journal and Miniature Horse World Magazine with 24 members ( doesn't sound like a great number but it is a full page ad. :aktion033: who rallied together to get their membership dues and ad payments in to make sure our ad was in the Feb/March issues. Did we need to be a member in another club? Probably not. What we needed was an avenue to let Miniature Horse enthusiasts know where they might go to find appaloosa and pintaloosa colored horses. I am an active member of the SmallestHorse Group where we promote the 30" and under Miniature Horse. This group started 3 years ago with 20 Charter Members and now has a membership of 88. Not huge numbers have 2 or 3 page ads in both publications so that Miniature Horse enthusiats know where to look for the 30" and under Miniature Horses. I am a sponsor horse farm on LB..why? so that when someone is looking for a Miniature Horse in Tennessee and they check the Breeder Connect they will see my farm name there as well. That is the same reason I am sponsor farm on the AMHA Website. With the IAMHA planned events and promotions (don't look a gift horse in the mouth), it should do nothing but increase opportunities in the Miniature Horse arena and I frankly hope to be a part of that group as well when it's membership is offered.

My only hope for this group is complete success and I would like to think that the BOD of the AMHA and the AMHR feel the same way.


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## horsefeather (Dec 22, 2006)

Great post zacharyfarms. :aktion033: As far as this only affecting AMHA, the people in IAMHA also suggested AMHR would be next. That's fine by me. I love AMHR but there are certainly areas of changes that need to be addressed! I still believe, and will probably always believe, we need more information and voting by mail from AMHR. It comes down to the BOD actually making the final decisions on things. I always hear "if you care enough, you will come to the National Convention." Guess that's fine for trainers and wealthy breeders, but for the most part, AMHR is made up of small farms run by every day working for a living folks who just can't afford or get time off to go. For those of you who keep saying these IAMHA folks should have spent their time on AMHA, how many years does it take for you to realize things just aren't gonna change without some kind of upset. Hopefully, as stated before, this WILL be a wake-up call to our registries. To me, the bottom line is if you like the new ideas, join and participate, if you don't, stay where you are.....but quit complaining!

Pam

P.S. This is just *MY* opinion, so please don't take it out on hubby. He really doesn't like me responding to things on this board, since he is a judge, but hey, it's still a free country last time I checked




:


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## Buckskin gal (Dec 22, 2006)

You also make some very good points. Both Registries need a shaking up to realize that more members want to be heard because they do care about what goes on in those organizations we pay to be in. When the BOD becomes a place for those who have their own agendas in mind and not wanting to represent all members then they truly make themselves look bad. I do want to see anything succeed that will benefit all mini horse enthusiasts so good luck to the new Alliance, if that is their goal. Mary



horsefeather said:


> suggested AMHR would be next. That's fine by me. I love AMHR but there are certainly areas of changes that need to be addressed! I still believe, and will probably always believe, we need more information and voting by mail from AMHR. It comes down to the BOD actually making the final decisions on things. I always hear "if you care enough, you will come to the National Convention." Guess that's fine for trainers and wealthy breeders, but for the most part, AMHR is made up of small farms run by every day working for a living folks who just can't afford or get time off to go. For those of you who keep saying these IAMHA folks should have spent their time on AMHA, how many years does it take for you to realize things just aren't gonna change without some kind of upset. Hopefully, as stated before, this WILL be a wake-up call to our registries. To me, the bottom line is if you like the new ideas, join and participate, if you don't, stay where you are.....but quit complaining!
> 
> Pam
> 
> ...


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## StarRidgeAcres (Dec 22, 2006)

Mary Lou - LB said:


> Hmmm... never mind...




I specifically came back to this thread to read his response!!! Your train of thought also crossed my tracks!


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## AJ (Dec 22, 2006)

Would like to see a statement from our AMHA President or executive.

Also, are you in a position to weigh in on this topic Tony?


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## Southern_Heart (Dec 22, 2006)

I think we should give this new IAMHA club the benefit of the doubt and see where they go from here.

Everyone deserves a chance and I am willing to wait and listen after all... all the people of the founding farms are really nice people! :aktion033:

JMHO

Joyce

edited for spelling


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## Devon (Dec 22, 2006)

ok So If I read right then you cannot hardship into this registry. I am dieing for a cheaper way to register a WCMHR horse into amhr for under $500



: :no:


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## The Dynamic Duo (Dec 23, 2006)

Hmmmm....How many people are going to be at the Rodeo? I know I will be so hmmmmmmmm


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## HGFarm2 (Dec 23, 2006)

*Weâ€™re thrilled to bring launch the IAMHA and the online capabilities to our fellow lovers of the American Miniature Horse, which is recognized as the most desirable miniature horse worldwide,â€ said John Cherry, President of IAMHA. â€œOur founding member group has an American Miniature Horse herd inventory valued at more than $5M and includes what is believed to be the largest group of Champion American Miniature Horses ever assembled! We also have the most comprehensive collection of breeding stallion bloodlines in the world.*

Sorry, I came into this post late, hence the reason I am delayed. As for the above statement from the initial article posted on here: Ummm, who was the appraiser of this herd? Is this how much was spent to aquire this herd or what he thinks they are worth? I can look at my 4 out here and say I have a million dollar herd. Someone else may see it as a $1000.00 herd and someone else may not give me two cents.

*Many of our Founding Members have played a critical role in establishing the current American Miniature Horse community and now want to ignite a revolution that has a global scope. Today, our members continue to lead the industry in breeding, training, exhibiting show horses and selling quality miniature horses. We welcome all lovers of the American Miniature Horse to explore and join our revolution.*

Ok, and I am new to minis myself but know plenty of folks who aren't and from what I heard, the original founders of AMHA were a group that were booted or couldn't cut it in AQHA. Hmmmm, who knows. Just what I have heard.

*Based upon in depth discussions and numerous observations, it was agreed there is a significant need for the formation of the IAMHA DBA as the International American Miniature Horse Alliance (IAMHA). Our concept is to create a co-operative entity for breeders and owners of American Miniature Horses to use their collective efforts and purchasing power to seek and improve new methods for the advertising, marketing and promotion of their horses. *

Why don't we just work on better advertising, marketing and promoting within the two clubs that already exist. I know that had I not known anyone with Minis and did not get any myself I could not have told you that their were mini shows even in our area or what anyone did with little horses. What was the point in having them? It seems that unless you are a member and receive the letters and magazines or know someone who has minis and is into showing, you would know nothing about it. Why don't you work on an advertising idea that will reach non-mini owners as well as mini owners to educate them on the breed and the many things you can do with the miniatures?

*4. In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry, create an organization/registry with the mission and structure to protect all current investments, and lead the breed without personal bias.

Why would AMHA fail? If the group fails or is failing maybe they need to worry about fixing the problem and finding out the reason for the failure. Gee, maybe the politics and sneaky tactics of the members within? Maybe as much effort should be put into the A registry and what it can do to improve itself as has been put into starting a 3rd club or whatever you may call it.

*To accomplish these goals and to sustain the future of the American Miniature Horse, it is imperative for AMHA to be financially strong and organizationally responsive. Without a sound, successful breed association, the value of the American Miniature Horse breed will be diminished, which will discourage people from participating in all phases of Miniature Horse ownership. Therefore, working with the American Miniature Horse Association is critical.

Horse value diminishes and fluctuates due to more reasons than just a club. Try economy, try dishonest breeders/sellers (not everyone but there are some out there and we all know it) try breeding programs in general and people breeding anything to anything so they can have something to sell for a quick buck which does nothing but flood the market and rescues and auction rings with culls and undesirables.

*IAMHA recognizes the importance of AMHA and its foundation for preserving and maintaining the pedigrees of Miniature Horses, while working to promote the breed.*

If they cared about the pedigrees they would not have done away with the oversized breeding stock program to begin with. As founding members will remember and know, they used to allow a foal out of two A parents that went oversized to be registered as such and used for breeding only. Now you have to drop the A papers on the foal cross it back with a small stallion, keep it for 5 years and re-hardship back into A. Well since the R registry is so generous you can double register and preserve the pedigree there but what just happend to the A pedigree when the papers were dropped on the one parent because it went an inch over and then that foal had to be hardshipped. *poof* no A pedigree.

*The American Miniature Horse Association has been the most respected Miniature Horse associations in the world. When foreign breeders looked to the United States, they looked to AMHA. Those members from within North America as well as foreign breeders looked to the AMHA for guidance, strength and leadership. The AMHA led the way by placing an emphasis on pedigrees of quality with known and traceable ancestors, re-enforced with verification through blood typing and later DNA. AMHA set the global standard for the breed, The American Miniature Horse.*

While the A registry has it's good and bad points as do all I would not go so far as to say that it is one of the most respected in the world as I know who holds at least the two top spots for that and can tell you for a fact that I knew even before I got minis that a lot of the big horse breeders and clubs that the miniature horse club was a big joke and it was nothing against the horses.

*In recent years, it has become known there are many issues which have weakened the AMHA. The reason and motivation for these issues is not nearly as important as the fact of where they have led or the path these issues have forced the organization to take.*

What do you mean that the reasons and motivation for the AMHA being weakend are not important?! Find the issues and fix them and that would probably re-strengthen the club. I would be a little more focused on where the club is going wrong than thinking an outsource is the answer to all our prayers.

*Currently, the AMHA is experiencing serious declines in:

All levels of annual membership

Annual foal registrations

Numbers of approved horse shows

Numbers of horse show competitors/exhibitors*

Oh look, here are some problems. Now how is AMHA not IAMHA going to fix and handle this? Ever think of sending some types of surveys out to current and previous members to find out why? Why are previous members caring to not renew? Why are memberships down? Why are foals not being registered? People are still breeding and selling. Why are each states clubs not having more horse shows? I know in AZ we have 2. There are all breed fun shows that go on about 10 months out of the year and they have little award banquets and point tallys and year end awards. Their membership is about $20 and it costs about $10.00 a class and they still manage to thrive and do that for it's little members. With as many members in each state that AMHA has, the cost of membership and the amount that is charged for each class and you can not find a way to have more than 2 shows and mind you ours are back to back leaving 11 other free months in the year with nothing unless you want the extra added expense of hauling out of state for others. Why is the A world show having about 800 horses in attendance and the R show having over 2000 and not all of those are R sized horses either?

*Any of these individually would be symptomatic of a potential problem; however, when these declining statistics are combined the impact is very, very significant on the future stability of the organization. Each of these areas represents significant revenue generating centers within the scope of breed association business, all functioning below the standards of previous years.

All of these add up to fact the AMHA is weakening as a business entity, losing momentum, and reducing its ability to grow and sustain growth of the breed.*

Glad you have figured this out, now why not take that time in being a productive A representative and finding the root of the problem and again fixing it instead of taking all your time to think of a new organization and how much your leaders herd is worth? Gee, I have nothing better to do today, I guess I will sit and figure out how much my Moms herd is worth and then maybe the neighbors behind us....

*8. Eliminate the hardship registration due to sufficient numbers of horses.*

Oh, another fabulous idea, so when your foal out of two A sized parents goes over and you breed it back to a small stallion you now can't hardship that foal back into A?

*The horse shows have become the primary use and center for participation of the Miniature Horse by the AMHA members. Therefore, it is imperative that the AMHA place an emphasis on quality management and operations of the activities associated with the Miniature Horse shows. Simply stated, without a flourishing, exciting horse show system, the demand for horses and their monetary values along with the participation by members will continue to decline.

Therefore, the IAMHA makes the following recommendations:

1. Establish a separate membership category for those who participate in horse shows for the purpose of supporting the related activities and services.*

Are you serious, a separate membership category for those who participate in shows? Are we being rewarded or penalized here? Oh, your a breeder, you pay this much in membership, oh and you are a shower so you have to pay x amount? Will it be more or less? What if you are a breeder and a shower? Do you then have to pay two memberships? We do that now for those who choose to do A and R. Or do you just pay a really expensive membership? Membership fees now are ridiculous as are the show ring fees. Not really prices for the blue collar working type who might have small children intimidated by larger horses so would like them to start somewhere but don't have a lot financially to work with. That is where those members will in turn go to POA or somewhere else that is more reasonable and youth oriented.

I am maybe just a little confused on this club and their objectives. So is the answer always going to be when one club tries and fails branch out and start another and when they are not happy with that one then someone will branch out and start another. How many do we need to get it right? 4, 5, 10. Ummm, do you not get to elect and vote officers in a club? If you are not happy do you not have someone that you take your complaints to to have them reviewed by the club? Are the officers being voted into the club so uncaring about the club, breed and members that they would not want to listen and fix what is wrong to improve on that club they have instead of calling a do-over and whiping away the old one and starting all over with a new one? If you couldn't do it right this time, starting a new club and adding a letter to the name will fix it? How long do you think then that the members will continue to follow like sheep and dump one registry to go to the new improved, then when that one fails to dump it and go to the next new and improved. I am not an ewe and do not want to jump from club to club. I would like to pay my dues, attend some shows with my daughter, my mom and our horses and have some fun and if we get some points and earn some titles great and if not then it is a great experience in good sportsmanship and competitiveness and being a gracious looser. I would like to have a couple of quality foals each year and sell what I want and buy what I want to improve and increase my herd as I can. I do not want to wonder if I will not be able to give my horses away because the potential new owners are wondering if the club they are registered with is a truly reputable club with the breed and members first and foremost a priority or if it is a shakey fly by night organization who will only be there until they feel it is so screwed up they don't want to fix it because it is easier to start over and call it something else. If you do not like what is happening in your organization then you vote the members who could give a crap about anything but status out, and vote/nominate/elect officers who will get in there and get the job done. If AMHA fails it will be through no fault but their own. If the members and horses were first and foremost a priority then maybe they should get input from the members on where the members think the club is going wrong and make an honest and true attempt to fix the problems.

Oh and I must have missed how this IAMHA is funded... Is this a buisness? Do we pay a membership or some sort of fee to tell you what to tell the AMHA on how to fix their problems? If this is not for profit and is a buisness, does paying these fees in turn make us business partners? Will we know exactly what every dime is being used for or if it is lining someones pockets so they can have a "self-proclaimed" $5 million dollar herd themselves? What do we get in return for these fees?

Very interesting website for IAMHA by the way. I love the 'why miniature horses' section. All the benefits of a mini versus a big horse. Under suitability for riding, for mini it states: Children up to 70 pounds may ride depending upon age, height and body type of horse.

Under big horse it states: Children any size and adults can ride. Hazards are greatly increased due to the animal's size, and the degree of training or experience of the rider.

Ok, I had a shetland when I was a kid that used to run away and scrape me off on barbed wire fences and ran under a clothes line and swiped me off her back that way and she was small and I was not completly inexperienced. What about driving minis? Anyone who has had one run off with them in a cart and had a really nasty cart wreck, and yes, this has happend even to experienced drivers. What happens when an inexperienced person buys a 'broke for driving' mini and ends up in an accident. I like how negative jabs were made at big horses but nothing negative of course about the little guys. What happend to educating people. People need to know that because it is little and cute does not mean it can not hurt you.

Under training costs and halter in hand: $300 and up per month/horse Family involvement is encouraged- even small children can help train a miniature horse.

For the big horse:$??? to $??? per month/horse Depends upon the reputation of the trainer, stable and breed

Reputation of the trainer huh? Yea, I know a miniauture horse trainer who could not pay ME to 'train' my horses. I know more than one but one really sticks out in my mind. Horses stay there a year then mysteriously don't know or 'forget' how to lead when they get to the show ring. Hmmmmm. Not just the dishonest in the big horse buisness my friend. Small children can help train? They can't show a miniature stallion until they are 16 however to show a POA stallion you only need to be 8. My daughter trained her Arabian. Again, size does not matter and any of them can hurt you soooooo, why are we jabbing at the big horses and big horse trainers? Bitterness about some past big horse dealings perhaps? Oh and average training costs for a big horse is $700.00 to $800.00 a month again depending on what aspect of training you are getting into. There are more things than making it look pretty on a lead when you get into big horses.

Suitability for driving for the miniature this is what was stated: Children 3-4 years and up routinely drive at home, parades and in shows. Adults-a miniature horse can easily pull up to1-2 adults in a cart in ail gaits, minimal experience is needed.

For the big horse owners: Children-questionable. Adults--Dependent upon experience.

Hmmm, minimal experience huh? Again, anyone have stories of nasty cart wrecks they would care to share? How dangerous can those be?

Suitability for handicapped: Greatly adaptable to handicapped individuals due to smaller size and affectionate nature.

For the big horse: Difficult for handicapped individuals to handle due to larger size.

I happen to know there are several organizations where the big horses are used for theraputic riding programs for even the most severly handicapped. The handicapped kids really love and look forward to it and it does not matter the degree of their handicap, none seem the least bit intimidated. If they are that severly handicapped they will probably not be handling a horse of any size on their own anyway.

Why don't you list the different activities available to those with miniature horses, such as showing, driving, CDE's, drill teams, parades, etc... and leave the slander of the big horses, trainers etc.. out of it. I noticed that there was nothing said that teeth and foaling problems are more prominent in miniature horses than big horses. Maybe that is where things go wrong to begin with, you want to convert people over to minis yet you slander the big horse and what those people love about them but hey, come join our club! You listed all the negativities of the big horse and not one of the little horse as a cautionary statement or whatever. There are good and bad in every breed so you could have used better tact in stating that overall, economically the smaller horses are less expensive to own however they still require all the veterinary/dental care that the large horse do. Oh and the price range for the carts with a max listed on the minis as about 1500.00? Sure, why are some of the show carts $2000 and up? I will be happy if I find one used for $1500.00 Maybe used should have been the key word in that little factoid.

Funny on the site it says you do not want to be a registry however in the above posted statements your exact words were that if the AMHA were to fail you would become a registry.

Oh and as also stated on the site this is a buisness and not a not for profit organization and there will be varying levels of membership. So, what would those fees be? Pay X amount and you can be a 40% buisness partner, for X amount less you could be 20% buisness partner? If we are paying fees into your buisness what service are we receiving? Basically you are going to play go-between between AMHA and us as members? Isn't that what we have elected officers for? Secoundly if we are paying money to your buisness, would that make us investors? Is their some kind of tax work we will need to file each year as a buisness partner or investor and even better yet do we get some cut of the profits?

I do apologize for being extremely blunt with this. However, this seems like a bizarrly, sneaky, scam that will benefit those that are saying they are going to do this and that however are these same people not AMHA members/founders/officers that also said they would do this and that when they got their position? What is going to happen when these varying levels of membership are paid by folks like you and me, and nothing happens? What if there are no added shows, advertising or anything else to show for it? They will say they tried, it will be someone elses fault, they will wipe out the buisness and start another one under another name again with the same wonderful ideas and promises in mind. I think it is funny that someone has discovered that these same people who want you to pay a fee for them to give your ideas to AMHA already sit on the AMHA board now. Why are they not opening their mouth at this point? Why go behind the club you are 'supposed to be representing's back? Why do we have to pay for these people to speak on our behalf? What are our regional directors for then? I also find it funny that their is no introduction on the website proudly stating who they are as new founders/buisness partners of this little scheme? [email protected] is the email? Gee, is it a big secret on who they are? Are we supposed to blindly send our money to some mystery person? If you are out to do such great things, why don't you step up and introduce yourself? We have one name for the person in the initial post, are the others silent partners? Oh, apparently so, since they are sitting so silently on the A board now? For the Texas Mystery Mini Club, I will not be traveling to Texas to attend your shows, I will not pay you to act like a union to go between me as a member and the A board when as board members you aren't accomplishing anything and if the A fails then so be it. I will have an AMHR herd.

My flame suit is on and I pack an extinguisher so go ahead.....Make my day!! :new_2gunsfiring_v1:


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## lvponies (Dec 23, 2006)

:aktion033: :aktion033: Heather Glen Farm!!` :aktion033: :aktion033:


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2006)

Very well written Laurie!

The intent of this Alliance may be pure, but it just smacks of underhanded the way it was handled. To form a marketing alliance, host not pointed shows, increase International awareness, etc., any number of people or a group could do that - the fact that they've hinted at a possible future without AMHA and gave a laundry list of 'or else' while sitting in these very AMHA committees and board seems odd.


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## HGFarm2 (Dec 24, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Very well written Laurie!
> 
> The intent of this Alliance may be pure, but it just smacks of underhanded the way it was handled. To form a marketing alliance, host not pointed shows, increase International awareness, etc., any number of people or a group could do that - the fact that they've hinted at a possible future without AMHA and gave a laundry list of 'or else' while sitting in these very AMHA committees and board seems odd.


Hi, Michelle. This is actually Lauries daughter, Jennifer. She is HGFarm and I am HGFarm2. Thank you though. She had been reading this for awhile before me and I came on and read the initial post then went and looked at the website and posted before even getting to read all of what others had said. I was angry and frustrated and didn't agree with the contradictions right off the bat from what they had in the articles posted here and then what was said on the site and they say they are working with AMHA yet it seems they have nothing nice to say about AMHA what so ever. The post of owning a mini versus a big horse made it sound like you could be an unknowledgable moron to own a mini and there was nothing nice about owning a big horse. I am fortunate enough to have both however I know a lot about riding and nothing about driving so I at least took the time to ask someone who knew. Would someone less experienced think to do that? Unfortunatly, not always, which could lead to a potential disaster. What a mess!! I don't know what else to think on this. I feel it is being handled in a shady, sneaky way and I don't think there is going to be a lot of good cooperation and communication between AMHA and IAMHA which will cause more problems rather than fixing anything. I don't feel comfortable handing over my hard earned money to an organization that will not or can not identify their founding members and exactly what your varying levels of membership will be going for.

Thanks again.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 24, 2006)

hat was a very well thought out post, Thank you.

If this is a business and we join as business partners, rather than members we would also be responsible for any _losses_ made by this "club"

If it goes under so do we?????


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## just2minis (Dec 24, 2006)

HGFarm2 Jennifer,

I have been reading this post since it started and your comments are right on !


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## HaazeMinis (Dec 24, 2006)

Very well thought out post HGFARM2!




:

I agree with Mary Lou! Makes you really think about it!



: HMM!!

Also, didnt read all the information on their site, so I didnt know about all the "big" horse verses "little" stuff. Very interesting!

The absense of some certain LB Members posts on this topic really has me wondering if they are or could be behind this "organization" as well?



: Especially ones from that area? Why be so "secretive" about who these "founding" members are? :no:

It is stated in the post regarding response from AMHA regarding this and other statements made in earlier topics brought up here that most all the founding members of this group are from Texas and most all of them have been/are on the BOD and/ or have been/are Presidents of AMHA. But yet NO ONE else has come forward except John with statements. I figured someone else would have come forward by now?

I just find this very unsettling now! :no:

Jeri


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## kaykay (Dec 24, 2006)

everyone seems to have a hard time finding the bod of this group on their site. I agree they did not at all make it easy to find but it is on their site. here is the board of iamha

BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Susan/Al Bulgawicz

Director

Willow Crest Farm Inc.

18463 Cypress Rosehill Road Cypress, Texas 77429

[email protected]

281 351 9770

Burdette, Don/Beverly

Director

Bar B Ranch

3405 Bethlehem Rd Lufkin, Texas 75904

[email protected]

936-875-4432

Cherry, John

Director/President

Cherry, Cindy

Secretary

Cherryville Farms

4503 Cherry Lane Santa Fe, Texas 77517

[email protected] â€“ John

[email protected] â€“ Cindy

281-898-1247 â€“ John cell

281-898-1248 â€“ Cindy cell

Covington, Joyce/Felix

Director

MCC Farms

6109 FM 390 N Brenham, Texas 77833-7216

[email protected]

979-830-9046

979-277-4951 Felix cell

Goodsell, Kenny/Dianne

Director/Vice President

Dianne Farrell

2031 Greystone Dr. New Braunfels, Texas 78132-3237

[email protected]

830-624-1951 â€“ Office

830-624-1952 â€“ Fax

210-326-6943 - Cell

Hickham, Martha/Will

Director/Treasurer

1712 Lynn Rd Chappell Hill, Texas 77426

[email protected]

979-865-3313

Jenkins, Bob/Dorcas

Director

Rio Red Ranch

16747 FM 1155 E

Washington, Texas 77880

[email protected]

936-878-9997

Weisberg,Polly

Director

Los Arboles

5710 Chatham Hill Road

Dallas, Texas 75225

[email protected]

214-363-6987

Wilson, Mark/Suzy

Director

Ranger Creek

141 Ranger Creek Rd

Boerne, Texas 78006

[email protected]

830-249-9176

Zoercher, Ray

Director

Windflight

1193 Rifle Rd. Pollok, Texas 75969

[email protected]

936-853-3989


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## Cathy_H (Dec 24, 2006)

> I think it is funny that someone has discovered that these same people who want you to pay a fee for them to give your ideas to AMHA already sit on the AMHA board now. Why are they not opening their mouth at this point? Why go behind the club you are 'supposed to be representing's back? Why do we have to pay for these people to speak on our behalf? What are our regional directors for then? I also find it funny that their is no introduction on the website proudly stating who they are as new founders/buisness partners of this little scheme? [email protected] is the email? Gee, is it a big secret on who they are? Are we supposed to blindly send our money to some mystery person? If you are out to do such great things, why don't you step up and introduce yourself? We have one name for the person in the initial post, are the others silent partners? Oh, apparently so, since they are sitting so silently on the A board now? For the Texas Mystery Mini Club, I will not be traveling to Texas to attend your shows, I will not pay you to act like a union to go between me as a member and the A board when as board members you aren't accomplishing anything and if the A fails then so be it. I will have an AMHR her




Better late than never & I so agree with much of what you have written............ If these people as AMHA members would not /could not fix AMHA problems, then why would we trust them to fix the problems in a new ( registry ) ?? ........



> â€œOur founding member group has an American Miniature Horse herd inventory valued at more than $5M


If the founding members horses alone are valued at what they think they are, then they have enough horses to sell to support their club by themselves - they don't need my small change............. Sounds like a door being slammed into my face from the get go.



> In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry,


Put this energy into fixing AMHA problems instead of standing there holding the door open, waiting to shove them out the door if they stumble................... OR get out of the way & let someone else have the job.


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## just2minis (Dec 24, 2006)

The more I read about this I think the people who formed and fund this Alliance should NOT be on the AMHA Board of Directors. It is a conflict of interest, and the alliance obviously has their own agenda which is going to take up so much of their time and money that I don't see how they are going to help improve the AMHA. JMO.

I am all for the AMHA and they need our support !


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## miniwhinny (Dec 24, 2006)

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: HGfarm :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:


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## Lauralee (Dec 24, 2006)

I'm from Texas.

I have read the majority of these posts on the IAMHA topic. Some I just skimmed but I got the gist of most of the information.

I am not happy with the way AMHA is run. I do see many things that should be changed. I am tired of the constant drama with AMHA and the bickering. The politics in their show ring and with everything else. Because of this, I no longer show AMHA, even though I live close to the shows and worlds show.

However, I don't support the formation of IAMHA. I don't feel it will solve anything. I'm not sure how I would personally benefit from being associated with IAMHA. And it does appear to be designed as a "union" to force the hand of AMHA, and pick up the pieces if AMHA goes under. That part I don't like.

I think its great to form a club to promote miniature horses. There is the Smallest Horse Group, CDE clubs for VSE, and so forth....but none of those are posing a threat to the organization of AMHA.

So I do not support IAMHA.


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## HGFarm2 (Dec 24, 2006)

JWC sr. said:


> In answer to the question what does AMHA and AMHR get out of this. It is very simple, if we have activites that people want to come to, they must own a horse that is registered with either AMHA or AMHR. These activities we are planning should create more interest in mini's, thereby create a market for the mini's so many of the smaller farms are having trouble selling according to the posts on this and other groups and therefore increase the number of horses and members in the respective registries.
> 
> If you look at the historical data from other breeds such as AQHA, when a group started offering activites such reigning, cutting and just got active in promoting the breed the number of people involved increased as far as membership and number of horse registered.
> 
> ...


There have been a lot of contradictions and bad mouthing already but to touch on the promotion of the American Miniature Horse...how and what materials will be distributed? Are they pamphlets with info on the breed as a whole or will you just be promoting the farms of those 'founding' members? Why is it that in the Q and A area of the site, one question was 'Where can I buy a small Miniature Horse?' and the answer was to email your site at the [email protected] address. Who answers or checks that email and where will those people be directed? To your or one of the other founders financially backing this, farm? Why could you not have listed the AMHA site, Lil Beginnings, Dreamhorse.com, equinehits.com or the many other sale board sites? Is this using this 'club' as self promotion of certain farms and the heck with anyone else who may have nice horses to offer? The rich get richer and the heck with anyone else. I don't get this. If you are going to promote then you should promote the breed as a whole with an unbiased opinion and be a little more open with information. I agree with others on here that if you want to start a group of your own to do with as you like, then so be it but mind the way you go about it and mind what you say and how you say it or you will do nothing but drive folks away versus bringing them on. Why don't you create a page for each of the founding members to introduce themselves and how long they have been into miniatures/horses in general? Why were you not more open about your intentions and why are half the suggestions made, already taking place within the A club? If some of these same people that are in this club are sitting on the A board as well then they should have already known that unless they missed the meeting that day because they had other agendas in mind? Also if AMHA has a certain way that things are brought to the board and approached and voted on etc... and this is the way it has always been then what makes you think that as a seperate buisness you are going to get things through and done any faster? Does it still not have to go to the board for approval and all of the same avenues that it does now?

Jennifer


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## oakgrove (Dec 24, 2006)

I think it would be helpful if you knew where the AMHA is as far as membership goes. Here are the official membership numbers from the AMHA office.

Year Total Members as of 12-31

1999 11674

2000 11722

2001 11317

2002 11966

2003 12036

2004 11106

2005 12090

2006 12025 as of 12-11-06

Dave Miller


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## PrestigeMiniHorses (Dec 24, 2006)

:new_shocked: i am only now hearing about this. im thinking ive been sheltered or something. but umm yeah i think that some people have the right to try and start up something new since that is how AMHA was formed anyways. however whether or not this new Association will last is a different story but I have to agree if there are more breeds show where there arent any right now then thats not a bad at all...


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## Lonesome Dove (Dec 25, 2006)

"If these people as AMHA members would not /could not fix AMHA problems, then why would we trust them to fix the problems in a new ( registry ) ?? ........

Put this energy into fixing AMHA problems instead of standing there holding the door open ....."

A lot of us tried to make changes in the AMHA ... at last years annual business meeting we voted in several new executive board members. They tried to make some desperately needed changes. They were block every step of the way by others.

As for marketing ... in 2005 AMHA had no marketing budget. NONE. An organization lives or dies by it's marketing. People don't know about us as one postee lamented. They don't know because we don't market. Does anyone remember a DIRECTV commercial from last Christmas ... a little girl wishing for a pony, a dad wishing for Directv ... at the end of the commercial the dad gets his wish and little girl runs to a delivery truck yelling "MY PONY!" Only it wasn't a pony ... it was a miniature horse. At last years pre-Emmy party, they asked some mini owners to attend and show off their minis ... I probably don't have the details right but you can ask Alison at AMHA. These were not AMHA sponsored events because we don't market to the public.

This year we had a marketing budget. However, so many constraints were put on the way we could spend they money that we were prevented from being effective and successful. You have to spend money to make money.

And who among us was at the 2005 AMHA National show? I refuse to show in Open because of the shenanigans that went on at that show. At the 2006 show, we showed only youth and amatuer. They lost probably $300 from my small farm ... multilply that by numerous others and then add some of the bigger "rich people" and that's big money lost because AMHA can't/won't clean up it's own act.

Numerous people have spent massive amounts of time and energy attempting to change the AMHA from within. There have been surveys of the membership ... several in fact. They're not listening. So, it time to try something new.


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## HGFarm2 (Dec 25, 2006)

I agree that marketing is very important. I believe they had broadcast one of the shows on RFD tv at one point though I do not remember how long ago. POA registry is fairly large but not as big as many registries and they were looking at putting something together to promote the breed there. Why could we not do the same. Make some sort of video of showing, driving, the drill teams, some parade footage etc... and do a narrative about the breed and submit that to run once every couple of months or so on there? There are many things you can do. A lot of people from many different horse industries watch that channel. They have, training, cutting, and all sorts of other things on there including the big FFA convention. They also host auctions on there. Just a thought. A little more known and getting the word out to those other than at a livestock show and rodeo and other than only in Texas. Horse and non-horse people alike watch that channel. Horse people and non-horse people alike read Western Horseman. Why not put an ad there as well? Just some ideas.

What about broadcasting the big sale that goes in conjunction with the World show to show that there is a market and that these horses do bring money?

Why was there no budget for marketing? Where did the money go? Who was holding up the progress of things trying to get accomplished through AMHA.

Jennifer


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## anita (Dec 25, 2006)

Lonesomen Dove you wrote the truth nothing as the truth.

Write letter, paper is patience. You might get an answer like Thanks or Funny thats it.

AMHA stays and falls with its member. A member registry thats it, not more or less. And they don't listen to member? No, they won't.

Like I said many times on this forum: I saw the best horses hidden at home. They need to get on shows!

Folks are frustrated!

This spring I'll prepare educational seminars at my ranch.

Have a wonderful day

Anita


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## shminifancier (Dec 25, 2006)

As I see it it would be a win win situation for Both registries. and the selling and marketing of both ,and both shows would be having a move playing field. Why do Oh One Is Better then the other thing? Have Both equal both doing the same and that would be a benefit for both AMHR AND AMHA and everybody concerned would have a level field to sell, show, breed, as well as competition then would be equal in both seems neat to me. Those that would want to stay small can and the classes would reflect that and those that would want some also in B can also do that better for shows, better for show competition, better for the number of classes for year end awards. Gee sounds like a cool plan to me.


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## mistyrose (Dec 25, 2006)

Lonesome Dove stated; "A lot of us tried to make changes in the AMHA ... at last years annual business meeting we voted in several new executive board members. They tried to make some desperately needed changes. They were block every step of the way by others."

Were you at the June meeting when we heard how they managed the AMHA employees? I expected much better from two experienced businessmen. They were also not forced out but resigned from the position. Mark Wilson at least came to the meeting so people could talk to him. Felix Covington was not present.

I can not tell you how pleased I was when Felix was elected. I had to miss the February meeting due to family obligations but when people called me and asked me if I knew him I told them I thought he would be great because of his business background and polite nature. I was so embarassed by the way OUR (because we are AMHA) employees were treated. Staff changes are often needed or desired but there is a proper way to hand it. They were blocked by the board because of the way they handled the situation not because the changes weren't needed. The changes in staff have now been accomplished. Employees have to right to expect to be let go with some dignity. No employee should be discussed in a memo as "the old girls or the young girls".

I did attend the 2006 world show. The issue at the 2005 show was caused by a lapse in the rules. Changes are being voted on in February to close the lapse. ( can't show in a shorter division at the championship or World show) In my mind the real issue was the behavior of a trainer to his client. That isn't something AMHA can control.

I do agree that AMHA has a problem with their level of marketing. It is the members who need to speak up in the meeting to direct that the funds be sent that way. To form an "organization" to market your horses and host shows is great. I don't think that anyone has a problem with IAMHA doing that. The problem is the threat of a new registry if AMHA doen't fall into their line. They say that isn't their intent but as soon as they mentioned stepping in if AMHA fails they declared it to be an intention. If it wasn't it would have never entered their minds.

I have been trying to not add to this subject but I am couldn't let the last comments go without reply. I have to go be apart of Christmas now. I hope we all can discuss this and listen to both sides and move forward in the spirit of all the holidays of December.


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## DunPainted (Dec 25, 2006)

*SAME INFORMATION PROVIDED ON CHARLOTTE'S SUBSEQUENT POST:*

QUOTE(Bess Kelly @ Dec 23 2006, 10:50 PM)

I'd like to see some type of "off site" attendance for the meetings similar to college classes that are viewed by many in different areas.

Gosh, we can go to class online and get a degree but can't "attend" our annual meeting in a similar fashion It can be done, we know this.

We just have to get the proper documentation, assemble estimated costs, etc., etc., to then submit a request to vote on a change, with the intent clearly stated. It's the challenge to excel that keeps us moving forward.........

FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW MUCH.... but Miss Bess has a TERRIFIC IDEA

However, based on folks who've been in the mini horse world/business, and the MAGNITUDE of this situation coming down the pipe (complete with lack of confidence of those charged with operating a world-wide, respectful oganization -- inclusive of one taking great pride in EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE -- this is an excellent format for members to participate in said meetings.

NOPE, I'm not an AMHA member (at the moment -- need to register three horses prior to year's end). However, based on the material provided by knowledgeable members, I wonder if this particular registry is worth spending funds from our family's limited budget. However, based on the current state of affairs and marketability of said horses, it seems the right thing to do AT THIS TIME. (By the way, THANKS TO TAMI OF OAK PARK MINIATURES for entrusting me with "MR. ROYAL", and A/R stallion in my avatar).

Just sayin is all,

Cindy

--------------------

DUN PAINTED RANCH

To The World You May Be One Person

BUT......To One Person, You May Be the World

http://www.dunpaintedranch.com

REHS ROYAL GEM - Thank You Tami of Oak Park Miniatures


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## Cathy_H (Dec 25, 2006)

> I have been trying to not add to this subject but I am couldn't let the last comments go without reply. I


Thank you Mistyrose for your post - all sides are needed when in written form.



> embarrased by the way OUR (because we are AMHA) employees were treated. Staff changes are often needed or desired but there is a proper way to hand it. They were blocked by the board because of the way they handled the situation not because the changes weren't needed. The changes in staff have now been accomplished. Employees have to right to expect to be let go with some dignity


.................................. Some of us heard how the above was handled ( if what we heard was true) :no: ........................................... I think a lot of AMHA members would be more accomodating & more patient if they felt like they were being listened to & kept informed.




: We all understand there will be problems & sometimes not so easily solved. Lots of us have the feeling that we hear only what AMHA wants us to hear..................... I have mentioned here in the past that AMHA could use their webiste to keep members up to date (members will have to sign in as the general public does not need to know). The factual information would kill the rumors & keep the negative feelings from escalating so much. We don't need all of the gory details but we would like to know what the TRUTH is. If we can't get it from AMHA then don't shoot us for trying to get it from this forum & other sources.................. I know we can contact our directors but I think it would be hard to keep directors if they had to constantly answer to dozens of members.... Speaking of which, the updates could even come from them in email or letter form or even from AMHA in an email....................... Again it is this feeling of not really being a part of AMHA that causes the disconnect & the negative feelings are compounded by what we hear & how things are handled by our "leaders"............................ Now I am off to enjoy my four grandchildren.



:



: Happy Holidays to all. :saludando:


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## Leeana (Dec 25, 2006)

I just read over every reply and i have to say i'm a little confused.

Can someone put all of this into terms an average person could understand as to what in the heck is going on?


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## Lonesome Dove (Dec 25, 2006)

Jennifer ... you are right about the RFD video. My daughter was in the second video driving with the child from Make A Wish. My uncle (Lllano, Tx) saw her and my husband's aunt saw her .... in New York. But it was not done by AMHA ... it was a volunteer effort (at least the first one was, the second might have been done by AMHA) done by AMHA members with private volunteer money by numerous ranches. The folks didn't ask for credit or recognition or reimbursement, they did it FOR the AMHA.

Many of the folks who sponsored the video are the same one that are involved with IAMHA. They don't want to be apart from AMHA. They are working for the industry as a whole not the individual.

There have been discussions about webcasting the annual meeting. I don't know where we stand on it. I know it's possible. I attend a master's program online. The technology is there. We just need to utilize it.

And the idea of broadcasting the sale, any of the sales, is great. The Winter's Breeders Classic from the Ft Worth Stock Show and the National Show sale are the two that come to mind. But the Heritage Sale and any of the others would be great.


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## Clarks Ltd Edition (Dec 25, 2006)

"Therefore, the IAMHA makes the following recommendations:

1. Establish a separate membership category for those who participate in horse shows for the purpose of supporting the related activities and services."

I do not like the idea of a separate membership category for people who show and those who do not show. If the goal of the IAMHA is to promote the Miniature Horse - then how would it help to divide the potential members of the IAMHA. :new_shocked:


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## Neil (Dec 26, 2006)

Lonesome Dove said:


> Jennifer ... you are right about the RFD video. My daughter was in the second video driving with the child from Make A Wish. My uncle (Lllano, Tx) saw her and my husband's aunt saw her .... in New York. But it was not done by AMHA ... it was a volunteer effort (at least the first one was, the second might have been done by AMHA) done by AMHA members with private volunteer money by numerous ranches. The folks didn't ask for credit or recognition or reimbursement, they did it FOR the AMHA.
> 
> Many of the folks who sponsored the video are the same one that are involved with IAMHA. They don't want to be apart from AMHA. They are working for the industry as a whole not the individual.
> 
> ...


Lonesome Dove

I couldn't help but notice that you joined this forum just several days ago the day after this forum topic (I am Shocked,, Dismayed and Upset!!!!) started and you have only posted three times and all three are to this topic and in support of the IAMHA. Do you have a connection with the IAMHA or are you just a strong supporter? Although I did notice what I though was a new Founder/Director I do not see your name(s) on their list.

In your second paragraph above when talking about the IAMHA you say "They don't want to be apart from AMHA." What to you me by "apart from?" Are you speaking for the IAMHA BOD?

As for broadcasting sales, wasn't the National Show sale broadcast online? I did not see it online because I was there in the room. How did the online bidders know where they were at in the auction. Was it all done over multiple phone lines?

As for the Heritage Sale wasn't that broadcast online or did I just have a very vivid dream. I remember seeing all of the horses presented for viewing the day before the auction and then the next day each horse as it was auctioned. All of this from my PC at home.


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## Songcatcher (Dec 26, 2006)

Neil said:


> As for broadcasting sales, wasn't the National Show sale broadcast online? I did not see it online because I was there in the room. How did the online bidders know where they were at in the auction. Was it all done over multiple phone lines?


The Natonal Show sale was definately broadcast online. I sat here and watched it on my computer.


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## HGFarm (Dec 26, 2006)

I dont think that HGFarm2 was referring to broadcasting 'on line'. She was referring to some possible TV coverage to reach a much broader range of people. More people watch tv and happen to 'stumble' across something they might think is interesting to watch that go to search for a specific something that is running on line on a computer.


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## Lonesome Dove (Dec 26, 2006)

Neil,

I am not associated with the IAMHA, was not asked to participate, didn't know anything about it until I got the emails from several different sources. I do know many of the founders personally. They are all good folk, very well respected for both their personal and business integrity. I just felt like defending THEM, not necessarily the IAMHA.

Some of these people are the same folks that bailed AMHA out of impending financial disaster not too long ago. They do not want to see the AMHA fail. But they do want changes in the standard operating procedure. So do I. I think change is desperately needed. I think AMHA needs to be more responsive to the individual members - the small ranches ... we're the life blood of the organization. I would like to see online/web based attendance of the annual meeting. Not all of us can go to Florida or Las Vegas or Portland every year. And yet to be on the committees, you MUST be at the meeting physically.

As for the online sales ... I didn't know that was available or in place. I would rather be AT the sales than at the computer. But I can't get to the Heritage very often, never in fact, but I may watch it online next time. Ain't technology great?

As for being a new online forum poster ... so what. My opinions are just a valid as anyone elses. But that's all they are and we all know that opinions are worth exactly what we pay for them. Actually, I didn't know about the forum until recently. I usually hang out on the sale pages just to see what's out there.


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## just2minis (Dec 26, 2006)

My main concern is that those heading the IAMHA Alliance NOT be on the BOD of the AMHA also.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Dec 26, 2006)

Lonesome Dove said:


> Neil,
> 
> Some of these people are the same folks that bailed AMHA out of impending financial disaster not too long ago. They do not want to see the AMHA fail.
> 
> .



I think this is a HUGE fact that keeps getting pushed to the wayside


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## minimomNC (Dec 26, 2006)

I guess I just don't understand the big deal. Why shouldn't people who want to start a group to put on shows and promote the miniature horse be on the BOD for AMHA? Can't people do more than one thing with minis at a time? Should people who show mainly AMHR and have B size horses not be part of AMHA? They are promoting something that AMHA doesn't do. And who has actually proven that the people in the IAMHA have done anything to hinder AMHA? Who has proven they haven't done their jobs as part of the BOD. Have the members of the BOD that aren't part of IAMHA done anything more for AMHA then the ones that are part of IAMHA?

My opinion which I am sure isn't worth the time its taking me to type this is: Why make such a huge deal of it all. If you want to be part of IAMHA then be part of it, if you don't then don't. I don't care for B size horses but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be any. Just means I take my interest in another direction. Why not just let this play out and see what happens.

And as far as AMHA goes, unless you were in the meetings and know exactly what happened at any given time between the Executive Committee, then you really don't know the whole story. Just what others are posting online. There are always two sides to every story. I think instead of trashing people you don't know, why not get in touch with your directors before the National Meeting and let them know what is on your mind and what you want to see changed to make AMHA operate better for you. Isn't that what the directors are for, to be the voice of the ones that can't attend.


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## just2minis (Dec 26, 2006)

If the same people are heading the AMHA and the IAMHA isnt one or the other going to suffer for it ?


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## HGFarm2 (Dec 26, 2006)

I was not talking online coverage of the sales. How many people new to horses or looking at purchasing a new horse for the first time, are going to happen to google up the sale on the exact day that it were to be broadcast online? I was talking maybe setting aside a marketing budget and utilizing RFD tv or something as people would be more apt to catch it when flipping through the channels. I know they have Quarter Horse auctions on there from time to time. IAMHA wanted to work in conjunction with 4H and FFA, the FFA convention is broadcast on there as well as numerous other things. They just had part 2 of an Appaloosa youth something on there on Christmas morning. It would reach a wide variety of people from non-horse owners to horse owners from other breeds and that older crowd that are slowing down and still want to enjoy horses yet may not be able to handle the big ones anymore. Are we not wanting to market to a broad range of people not just fellow mini owners? While promoting at the livestock shows and rodeos might be alright for the youth based, I don't think you are going to have much luck in turning the die hard, traveling, rodeo cowboy into prancing around in a show ring with a mini or that they are home enough to enjoy and care for one unless they are retiring in the very near future. The rodeo life and average horse owner life are two very far and different things.


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## HGFarm (Dec 26, 2006)

I think the concern is also where do their best interests lie, and the manner in which it appears this new group was formed and presented itself to AMHA.

Just my opinion here, but I truly agree with HGFarm2's post regarding the negativism on the website for IAMHA- regarding AMHA and other horse breeds as well. Certainly wouldnt make me want to 'jump ship' and come on over.

However, I think we have discussed all that in the 20 pages here already...


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## HGFarm2 (Dec 26, 2006)

just2minis said:


> If the same people are heading the AMHA and the IAMHA isnt one or the other going to suffer for it ?






: Seems it already has. Nothing is getting accomplished any better of faster with them on the board so how is paying yet another membership fee going to ensure that A passes rules/bylaws/suggestions/complaints etc...any faster? How will it ensure that regional directors are going to be any more willing to listen and speak up on their regions behalf any better? That is what I am not getting. There is still a way that things are presented and voted on so by paying another entity will all that change too? It seems like the BOD for IAMHA was hand selected so were the questions that they chose to try an answer throughout this post and nothing is being made any clearer.


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