# A and B designations on papers.....



## spazkat (Feb 21, 2004)

I've been hearing a lot about the dropping of the A/B designation and allowing B papered ponies to show as classics (from both sides) and was wondering what everyone here though about this. I can sort of see both sides on this one, but tend more towards leaving it as is. The arguments I have heard for dropping the designation were basically that it would enourage more honesty in the registration process..... but from what I can see, breeding B papered ponies isn't an issue. Most of what I've seen in the "fudging the papers" department is more related to breeding full hackneys then slapping shetland papers on them- which this A and B issue can't resolve. Yes, I know it happens- but was appalled when I was at a sale and someone actually said right out that they were selling this full hackney baby they had at the sale "because they only wanted the mother so they could breed moderns" (?!!?)






My take on it (for what it's worth) is that B papered ponies don't need to show as classics. If you're breeding ponies where you know that the offspring will be a B, and you know that they can only show modern- you shouldn't get classic type ponies and you may want to rethink your breeding program. Classic type B ponies are simply off-type if you ask me. Off type ponies are generally not showable, and most often you do not repeat the same cross.

But.... none of this really affects me. I have strictly Moderns (although all A papered). Two are actually foundation eligible, but they are sooooo not foundation type I never bothered with the seal. I know there are a lot of you guys here that are into the classics and foundations..... what do you guys think about this??


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## mendocinobackofbeyond (Feb 22, 2004)

2-22-04 Hi: I think there is some misinformation about the A/B thing. It was never proposed that the A/B be dropped. Only that B papered ponies that fit the Classic type (and there are a lot of them) be allowed to show in Classic classes. You'll be glad to know that the ASPC/AMHR Board and the Classic Committe voted against it. It stays as it is.


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## spazkat (Feb 23, 2004)

mendocinobackofbeyond said:


> It was never proposed that the A/B be dropped.  Only that B papered ponies that fit the Classic type (and there are a lot of them) be allowed to show in Classic classes.


Actually allowing the B papered ponies to show as classics would have been more or less the same as dropping the letters..... the only restriction put on B papered ponies is that they show as moderns (and have the letter on their pedigree) so once that was dropped what difference does the letter designation make?

Actually I hadn't realized that there were that many of them. It doesn't make any sense. If you are breeding two horses and you KNOW that the resulting foal will be B papered (and that B papered animals must show in the Modern division) why would anyone breed for Classic type?? It seems to me that if a breeding program uses horses who will produce B papered offspring, then they outght to be breeding for motion (ie modern type). It follows from that that any ponies produced that do not move well enough to show as Moderns are "off type". Yes, it does happen occasionally when you don't expect it- it happens in all breeds generally you just don't repeat the cross.... Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't make much sense to me.


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## willowoodstables (Feb 23, 2004)

HEHE..

I had a awesome pony once that was a Congress under 44" harness champ pony who low and behold was really a Cassillis bred mare with TWO sets of papers. She went on to be a wonderful broodmare of Full blood hackneys <G> so really it should be DNA that determines the designation eh??

Kim


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## Lewella (Feb 23, 2004)

Very well said as always Spaz! Thankfully the board decided not to allow B's to show in Classic classes, I have to hope that the huge number of us that wrote letters and voiced our opposition to this change actually had a postive impact.

The number of ponies this could have positively impacted was extremely small (less than 100 B papered registered per year as opposed to around 1000 A papered).

My biggest question through this all is "Why did the board revisit an issue that died in committee?" Now I'm no expert on Roberts Rules of Order but know enough to understand that if a proposal dies in committee it has done just that - died.

Technically dropping the letters on papers was never on the table but then technically the show issue should never have been on the table either since it died in committee. I think people were very smart in suspecting that there could be more to the issue than just dropping letter designations for showing! (Remember, the wording voted on by the Classic committee isn't even the same wording as that that appears in the minutes from Convention!).

Yes Kim, DNA could, if separate unique markers for Shetlands and Hackneys could be determined, help one heck of a lot! Do Hackney's currently DNA?


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## ShowShetland (Mar 18, 2004)

In Canada Shetlands can only be "A" papered and under 44". The best show pony in Canada is RFP 6/8 Time owned by the Aldermans and has won the canadian championship 12 years in a row. The directors of the Canadian Pony society had votted him out 5-6, for having "B" bloodlines in his papers. To me this is a joke




the CPS have taken his papers aswell as his offspring. I think that the CPS should allow "B" ponies into their registry. also raise the hieght for showing to 46" the shetlands are dieing in Canada the biggiest class i saw of shetlands in 2003 had 5 ponies and that was the canadian championship (Royal Winter Fair)


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