# Babies can drive too!



## Gone_Riding (Oct 15, 2013)

I'm not new to driving in that I broke my Arab to driving this summer. However, my mini is! She was almost four months old in the video, and we're learning together. I've never shown, but I hope to. For now, we're having fun!

Chloe driving (3 1/2 mos old):







Video link:

http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/Ma_Kettle/media/DrivingChloevideo2_zps61cdb7b2.mp4.html

Here's one of my Arab (11 yrs old) at the Pacific Ocean.


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## paintponylvr (Oct 17, 2013)

awwww, but I "wanna attack cat"...

I've done this type of "driving", too. I think it works well and is awesome for future training.


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## susanne (Oct 17, 2013)

What is the beach in your second photo?

We have a group of mini folk that gathers every September at Long Beach for a weekend of beach driving and assorted fun.


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## Gone_Riding (Oct 18, 2013)

The second picture was taken at Westport, WA. It would be a lot of fun to take a bunch of minis driving at the ocean!


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 19, 2013)

The Arab looks great. Sorry, I consider babies should be left to be babies and not bothered by all that sort of thing in the name of "fun". You have to remember how that will look to someone who does not know what they are doing and has bought a foal, added to which we already have 15 month olds "broken to harness and doing 25mph easy" being offered for sale.....


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## Gone_Riding (Oct 19, 2013)

I'm one of those that believe that the horse needs to learn how to stop before learning out to trot. I totally understand that there are those who have no idea what they are doing. I also fully believe some people have no right to own a horse- like the ones who think they are saving horses from slaughter only to end up with 50 starving horses. Then there are those who buy the first horse they see only to find out the horse is beyond their ability or knowledge to own. I was one of those when I was 21. I bought a pretty horse only to find out that it was unrideable alone, was a bucker, and would flip over backwards. She flipped over on me. I learned the hard way that I wasn't a great rider, my mom just always had great horses. 10 horses later, I learned what it meant to know what one was looking for in a horse. At 21, I didn't care, I just wanted a horse.

She's one of those that not only loves the attention, but loves having something to do. I started training my Arab when she was 6 months old. She was flighty and I was even told she'd be extremely hard to train. Funny, I've been told the same thing about Chloe. But I've handles Chloe since birth. Like a child, they learn what they are taught. It's easier to teach them while they are young than when they are teenagers. Horses do not develop at the same rate as a child though. They have to learn things even faster than a puppy to survive.

I certainly agree with you that one can overdo it though. I guess that's why I take things so slow with Chloe... I play with Chloe about 15 minutes. Up to 30 if I'm just taking her for a walk leading her to the mailbox with the kids. I don't use a whip, because then it's not play for her or me. I keep a loose rein so that she's doing it because she wants to. She talks to me more than she ever did to her mommy, and hardly put up a fuss when she was weaned. But then, I taught her to give me kisses on day 2 in trade for "scratches". She would even fall asleep while laying on my lap. I loved it. She's too big for that now!


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## Tab (Nov 7, 2013)

I think it's great! It looks like you are both having fun and your foal is going to be the most mannerly on the block!


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## Performancemini (Nov 8, 2013)

The Greatest thing is that your Chloe is going to have a lot of trust in you and that is going to be a HUGE plus in her future!!! Good for you for giving her calm, loving experiences as she grows.


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## Lloydyne (Dec 31, 2013)

I live in Westport, on the beach. Still have to haul to get to the water. Next time you come this way I would like to go with you.


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## paintponylvr (Dec 31, 2013)

I grew up with a "western" or "cowboy" influence on my horse training. We would bring youngsters in for handling a set amount of time and then they would get turned out again. In the west, on large ranches, some of those youngsters were on hundreds of acres - truly no different than the actual wild american mustangs.

Mares often foaled on pastures - albeit closer to the Home ranch area. They could be checked on that way, foals could be monitored etc. Yes, there was some loss - but compared to what I hear and see now, not anything like the rates of today (big or small equine). Mares and younsters were often culled (sold, moved to a working string or even ... euthanized, depending on the situation), based on their production records or how well they matured. Occasionally, one would be made into a "pet" or "babied"... Mares & foals could be called into the "barn yard" and they would have access to feed and hay. Foals were often lightly handled when they were in. Hooves would be trimmed, shots & worming done, haltering & leading lessons, tying and bathing. At weaning, mares would be removed and go to different broodmare winter pastures. The weanlings stayed in the barn pasture for a while, then would be split by sex (s) and go out again in different pastures. They wintered out - and again, some times there was loss. It wasn't every year and usually weren't many. In truly bad weather, hay and feed was provided on/in the snow and they sometimes had shelters (depending on the ranch) that were built rather than natural. The following year, when most of the youngsters were "long yearlings" - they'd be brought in for 30 -60 days. They'd be introduced to saddles and ground driving and if the trainers/handler/day cowboy in charge felt that that youngster was mentally and physically capable, they'd actually be started under saddle. Often, on these type ranches, it wasn't a big beefy, mean cowboy that started those colts - but the "horse savy" son or daughter of the owner, foreman or other employee. They were often tiny/small so it wasn't an issue weight or size wise - plus even the small horses on these types of set ups were beefy youngsters. It was a common practice - and worked well with people in charge that had compassion and understanding. Other ranches the horses ran out until they were 4 or 5 with little handling - the problem is that they were then needed for working and their training was often hurried and the horse sure didn't appreciate it. Some were truly "broken" and others became true "outlaws".

Over the years with ponies, I've often utilized a combo of the same management/training techniques with my own added in. SOO, we too, have often harnessed and/or had saddles on youngsters as early as 4/5 months of age. It doesn't mean they were "worked into the ground" nor were they upset or stressed over it. Often, it gave intelligent and bored, who then became dangerously mischievous, ponies a job. I've found that the foals worked with this way were easier to actually start riding, or to fully start driving. They weren't spooking over "every day" things. The years that we didn't have many foals or number of ponies I DID have to be careful not to overwork with a youngster - because it gave ME something to do. Now, I have the opposite - a lot of ponies with a full time job (for the first time in years!) and not enough time to do the individual work with the ponies plus maintenance on the "farm". It's been very interesting...

When my children were small - both the oldest and the youngest enjoyed "starting" the ponies. Soon the oldest outgrew them, but the youngest had great fun being our "pony jock" for many years. Because i followed the techniques I grew up around, she often started riding our youngsters before they were a full 2 yrs old - around 20 months of age. ALL of those ponies are in their mid to late teens now and are still going strong with both children and adult handlers/riders. Some are still competitive (4 at "A" rated hunter/jumper shows, 2 @ major driving events, the mare I just sold will go on to do H/J but not sure at what level they will compete to), others are used as lesson ponies and general riding mounts. Only one or two of 30+ have been used for breeding.

They were truly started lightly and not overworked. They weren't ridden for hours at a trot or lope/canter - on hard ground or in nothing but circles - though most of the riding did occur on a simple, flat 3 acre pasture. Though all learned thru lounging and started being lounged as early as 3 months of age - I've never had any of the problems so many pony/mini folk cry "foul" over. I often had not only my 3 daughters but up to 4 or 5 more kids (very few boys) "hanging out" in our pasture. We had few amenities (no heat in winter, no air in summer, no potty - though for smaller children I had a potty chair and for me I had a "campers' toilet" and tissue and wipes) but we had water, gatorade and soda plus snacks. The kids had "races" with the ponies - all the way down to the foals. The ponies got used to kids running (tho I did discourage that) around them and occasionally falling. YES, sometimes the kid got stepped on or even kicked - often they rolled out of the way and were up and gone again. The ponies learned to lead - walk, trot & gallop. The kids got treats for the winner in who got to the horse trailer first & got their pony loaded - w/o dragging or whipping. At least once - had kids out there with a pony in each hand jogging from the round pen to the trailer and hopping in w/ the ponies. I really regret that I don't have many pics and the ones I do have aren't on the computer(s) at this time.

For two years, I often rode the one mare 2 miles with up to 4 ponies in tow beside/behind me. All but the last would have a kids saddle on and a headstall w/ a bit. They would be tied to the gullet/pommel of the saddle in front of them. When we got to the "barn" (actual owner of the pasture I leased) - they would all be tied up, and I'd work with them 1 on 1 - leading, lounging and ground driving them around this boarding barn - thru ditches, water, thru the cleared tree area, between pastures with BIG horses, around farm equipment I didn't have at our "place", over jumps. The youngest baby I was ponying would be the weanling or suckling from the mare I was riding who would be at the "tail" of my line. W/i a couple of weeks, the oldest would then have either Skye or Sierra in the saddle for the first time...

Since I've gotten back into the ponies, I haven't had this availability of "pony jocks". However, on occassion, both the oldest and youngest still hop in and will work with a pony or two. The pony will get several short sessions of "work" or training. Sierra had a couple that she put time in with harness and even ground driving as weanlings and early yearlings. Wasn't everyday, nor for hours on end. The ponies were well adjusted, happy and not sore. I can tell the difference when I've gone on to work those "babies" as 2 or 3 yr olds getting ready to drive!

AND I miss having that kind of "help". THOSE ponies are awesome!!


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## paintponylvr (Dec 31, 2013)

Since everyone loves piccies and I do have some...

Sorry this photo is so large - I haven't gone in and re-sized it. This is May/June 1997. The foal's butt in the foreground is the 1 or 2 m old daughter of the mare getting her hooves cleaned. She is TIED and is EATING FROM HER OWN BUCKET. Most folk now seem to freak out about babies being tied... What you don't see - is Madira's 2 sisters and the Vet's step daughter cleaning the hooves of the other ponies. Madira will be 5 in Oct, in this picture. The pony, Patty, has just turned 4.






Skye rarely rode Patty - she started out on AJ (45" stallion) and later went to Magic, a 43" shetland mare, then went back to AJ before going to larger xbred sons and daughters of AJ as well as the Arabians. Both Sierra and Madira learned horsemanship and riding with Patty. Sadly, Patty passed away right before/after she was 6 yrs old due to a breeding accident.

Here is my last picture of her with Sierra riding. Patty was actually born in May 93, while Sierra was born in August 93.












Here in Jan 99 is all 3 of the girls (& my hubby - a rare occurrence) w/ Pixie -









It never occured to me that the kids "sleeping in the hay" was a rare thing. I didn't have the camera with me on a regular basis, so again have few pics. The foals got used to the girls going out and sitting with them while they were sleeping. Some would get up, others would stay down.

Not sure this will post...


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## paintponylvr (Dec 31, 2013)

and Pixie a few years later.






Rascal - April 98 gelding sired by 45" Shetland stallion. Out of 14.2 hh Arab/Paint mare. I was ground driving him, Skye took the pics. Skye was his main "pony jock" - but Sierra showed him at the one and only show he went to before he was sold to someone who'd seen him at the show... The pic of Sierra showing him was taken in Nov 2000 not 1999. It was Skye's first show showing our Arabian mare. Madira didn't ride at many shows - especially at first... Got a call last year - the mother of the little girl that this pony purchased for is now riding him (he matured to 13.3 hh) is now riding him after a serious riding accident left her body somewhat mangled and weak. They are happy with his latest career and will probably start driving him soon, too.


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## paintponylvr (Dec 31, 2013)

Vixen is a 98 mare. She is by AJ (shetland stallion - 45") out of Satin (Hackney mare - 12.1 hh or 49"). Vixen is registered ASPR - but is not the show ring type for that division of Shetland. Her ground driving pic taken at the same time as Rascal's is "missing". It's not online and I'm not sure I have it anymore, though I should...

This is the pony that I walked around the barn near the end of the arena at a local, open show and found Sierra sitting on her neatly folded hunt jacket (she didn't want to get her cream breeches dirty???), between Vixen's front legs with a cheeseburger in her hand and Vixen's bridled head over her shoulder. Sierra would take a bite, offer her burger to Vixen who would then get a bite while Sierra offered commentary on the entrants currently in the arena, and then she'd take her burger back and take another. Several folks from the barn - teens and adults - were keeping an eye on them, but no-one had a camera! GOTTA LOVE kids and ponies!!

Vixen was sold in 2006. She is officially carded as a hunter pony at 11.2 7/8 (46+"). She is still being campaigned as a h/j pony from 4H to A rated shows - all over NC, SC, MD & VA. In a training stable and ALWAYS has an entourage of kids following her at shows! I only have a couple of pics of her with two of her little riders in April 06 and a couple of videos from 08 or 09.


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## threeten (Jan 1, 2014)

Great pictures! Thanks for sharing. My two favorite breeds are shetland/mini and arabian. I think they make a wonderful combination and both seem very people oriented at least that has been my experience.


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## Renolizzie (Jan 1, 2014)

Adorable pics. This is the childhood I wanted...I grew up in a large city instead


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## paintponylvr (Jan 1, 2014)

Renolizzie said:


> Adorable pics. This is the childhood I wanted...I grew up in a large city instead


But you have yours now!! My children never got into the "real" care of the ponies. If something happened to me, they would have to have written instructions to set up and maintain feed/vax/farrier schedules. Though they all rode and did a fair amount of training, even the youngest who was my "pony jock" really doesn't care for the day to day training - makes me sad





I do love it when they come help out still (they mysteriously disappear whenever hay has to be unloaded)... The oldest is only 20 miles away but getting our grandchildren over here to work with the ponies is ... difficult. I was hoping to have them at least doing lead line by now, but that hasn't happened yet.


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## paintponylvr (Jan 1, 2014)

Me and my computer are having arguments right now...

I lost not one but both of the separate posts with the pics of the ponies in harness... I'll try again now.

This is one of the ponies our youngest worked with. This is Kreature in April 2010. He is 10 months old.











Vicki ground driving him before he went to her place. He's 20 months old.






Vicki driving him in September 2011, so he's 26 months old.






And here he's working last fall - October 2013.






Kreature's dam is the "old" mare that I started learning to/trained to drive a pair with in 2010. She will still be driving for a while. She'll be 22 yrs old this spring.


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## Renolizzie (Jan 1, 2014)

PaintPony - I am having that childhood now and I am enjoying it I don't even mind cleaning the pens and bucking the hay although it is better when Hubby moves the hay for me.


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## paintponylvr (Jan 1, 2014)

And here's Comet. Again, Sierra is the one working with him. Yes, she was barefoot in some of the pictures...don't go there. He is 5 months old in the first few pics. September 2011. This is a mini harness and it won't fit him at all now. In fact, I hope I have a harness that will fit him this summer - I'd like to get him going and both ground driving single and as a pair with his full brother. He is wearing a bridle here, but the lines are hooked to the halter. This was his 2nd or 3rd time wearing the harness.






Here he is "driving" over the tarp. In all actuality, he's being lounged here. The left line is going directly from his halter to Sierra's hand. The right line is laying across his back behind the harness saddle and is not run thru the rein terret.






The next one, I think the lines are run thru the terrets. He may be only 5 months old, but he doesn't appear to be stressed or upset. His body did not get injured or even sore - this session including grooming before & a bath after working was barely 30 minutes long. He was happy and seemed to enjoy getting out of his paddock which he is in with the other ponies (the colts & geldings).






Sierra was taking driving lessons from the same gentleman I took driving lessons from and here is a picture of her & Comet during one of the lessons that she took him to. Of course he's not hitched to anything, however, the lines at this point were hooked to the bit. They aren't run thru the rings on this training surcingle here, tho they were later. This is one month after the above pics were taken (he's 6 months old) and the mini harness DIDN'T FIT him anymore -










So, he was "driven" about 10 -15 times. We'll see what he remembers this spring. I will be working him ground driving along with his full brother, Rocket. I hope to have them nicely ground driving as a pair. Comet will be 3 in April and Rocket will be 2. Rocket hasn't had anywhere near the same amount of "work" that Comet has had.


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## rabbitsfizz (Jan 2, 2014)

Sorry I just cannot believe that anyone with your professed love of driving would put a bit in a foals mouth and actually put reins on it, not to mention driving an animal just two years old. I have kept quite up to now but now I have to speak out. This is NOT the sort of example this forum should be setting to people who have no experience of driving. Not at all.


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## Rhondaalaska (Jan 2, 2014)

My trainer puts a bit in her full sized horse foals between ten months and a year. She has a head stall that she puts on them with a bit on it and leaves it on for a time. Her little filly is now up to 1 1/2 hours. She told me last time I saw her that this filly will be ready for beginning saddle work this spring. By that I mean that she will start introducing the saddle and blanket to her and lunge her with it on once she is used to it. She won't be ridden for another year. But over the next year she will get all the other work done.the filly was a year old last time I saw her. This spring she will be two


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## paintponylvr (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanx for your opinion Jane!

Just wanted to say that I was trying to point out that some work with youngsters can be done - safely, and with good results for the handler and the youngstock. I will never feel that that is wrong. Just note that I advocate MODERATION and CONDITIONING along with training - Not work 'em hard and put 'em up wet...

I have more of a problem with both "weekend warriors" and with folks who do little to no training/conditioning and take them out for hours on end... at any age.

*****

I've now worked with 5 ponies in the last 4 years (I know, maybe not that many, but...) that would have benefitted from the kind of early handling that I advocate and enjoy doing. It would have been safer for me (and the others involved in their care and training) and much, much easier for them... Such a shame that some pass thru so many hands because they "can't be trained" or even safely handled.


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## Minimor (Jan 2, 2014)

I have up say I agree with Jane....and I admit that when I read the title if this topic it made me cringe--I was afraid to open it!

Rhondaakaska--many trainers do many things, which does not necessarily make those things right.

Some trainers but their horses up and tie their heads around and leave them for a couple hours....there was a reining horse left that way and the trainer finally returned to find the horse down and seriously injured--the horse had to be euthanized....yes, people bit and even ride their 18 month old babies, that doesn't make it right nor does it make things good for the horse.

Sadly it is true--someone sees a photo of a person driving a foal with a bit--or driving a foal at all--and then they decide to try it. Then they are bored with that so next thing they are actually hitching and driving that foal. I have out a harness in a weanling--I out it on, led her around and then took it off and turned her out--I wouldn't have even considered 'driving' her--there is a happy medium between having a wild unhandled horse and having one that is quiet but has been made to do too much too young.


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## Rhondaalaska (Jan 2, 2014)

Minimor said:


> I have up say I agree with Jane....and I admit that when I read the title if this topic it made me cringe--I was afraid to open it!
> 
> Rhondaakaska--many trainers do many things, which does not necessarily make those things right.
> 
> ...


I have to tell you that when my trainer has the head stall on the filly is not tied she in in her padock and my trainer is right there with her. Mucking out and doing other chores. She never leaves her alone. She started real slow at just accepting a bit near her filly till the filly wears it when she muckes out her pen. My trainer is not going to "back" or "break" this filly till she is at least three. But she will have all her ground work done. This filly knows how to stand while tied, for the farrier, and lead. She will learn to have things rubbed all over her and placed on her this year. So yes some go over board , but my trainer does short sessions of training.


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## Margo_C-T (Jan 8, 2014)

I agree with Jane and Minimor. I have been 'at this' for over 62 years; will NEVER understand why people are in such a HURRY to get into 'serious' work…and having a bit in the mouth is that, IMO…with animals that are immature in both mind and body. There are numerous equine disciplines, more so every year now, it seems to me, that are only too willing to risk sacrificing youngsters by rushing them both mentally and physically…this is seldom in the horses' best interests.


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## Scottishlass (Jan 15, 2014)

I have to say that I also agree that is too young to be starting them with lunging, bits etc. I have a coming 3 year old that I just started to work with in ground driving when he was 2 1/2. We did simple leads on halter and walking, stopping, standing and backing only.

No matter what breed of horse, their joints are not closed/solid and way to many are started way to soon. Let them mature in body and mind and you will have a far better horse in the long run.


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## Casey0Lee (Jan 16, 2014)

I just joined...

But... why would you harness a 4month old???? Seems a little young to me. I mean... I start saddling my big horse's as mid yearlings, but not even 4 months old?? Seems too early to me. JMHO.


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