# Classic Pleasure



## Katiean (May 6, 2010)

I was watching the driving classes at the AMHA show the starting day (yesterday) I was standing next to a lady that says "What is it about extention they don't understand? They are not Classic Pleasure with out the extention." Well, I was also standing next to someone that judges (not at this show). He told me it is first and formost in this class, the head set. It is to be even or just above the weathers. Then you judge the gate. Some of these horses were checked up with an overcheck like they were doing roadster. I am not saying extention has nothing to do with this class but, it is head set first. I totally trust this judge and I know many of you trust what he would have to say too.


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (May 6, 2010)

And the total lack of ability to judge the horse as an overall unit is why breed show judging so irritates some of us. Headset- ha! Who cares if the horse's head is at the right height if his hind end is trailing, he's hollow and has no power? And a horse who is a naturally wonderful mover but isn't moving correctly and has his head stuck up in the air with or without a check should be judged just as harshly. WHY can't people learn to look at what the horse's entire body is doing? Is his rump underneath him, the root of his neck elevated and his head bent softly onto the bit at the poll? Is he a pleasure to drive? It isn't about where the the head is in Classic Pleasure or any other class. That is a by-product of correct movement.

Leia


----------



## disneyhorse (May 6, 2010)

I have to respectfully disagree.

Headset is one of the last things I look at... the first is the overall balance and movement... if the horse is working well on all fours (yes, impulsion from behind is good, but fluid front-end action in the breed ring is important, too...) so movement and collection is what I look for first of all.

Head set, are we talking on the vertical (preferred) or how high the horse is checked up?

In the breed ring, I like to see a nice natural upright neck. The horse should be checked up as high as conformationally comfortable for the horse in any of the driving classes. For Classic Pleasure or Western Pleasure (AMHR) the horse should be carrying it's head comfortably, where ever that may be, but much more relaxed than Country or Open Pleasure.

So to me, overall picture is first, and not really head set.

Andrea


----------



## disneyhorse (May 6, 2010)

Ha, I must have been posting the same time as Leia... yeah what she said






Andrea


----------



## Katiean (May 6, 2010)

Ok, if all 3 classes have the same head set and same extention, then why have 3 different classes? There HAS to be a difference. And I guess if a trainer drives a class with his reins draping down the horses hips he actually deserves the first he was awarded?


----------



## Kendra (May 7, 2010)

The division between the classes isn't a question of more or less extension, but more or less elevation.

I think there's a 'figuring out' period with any new class. I haven't seen the class judged yet, other than on the Touch of Class webcast (and it wasn't working well for me, so take my observations with a grain of salt), but my impression was that two of the judges were placing the classes the way I expected - the long, sweepy movers, properly on the bit - and the other two were placing the more, well, untalented horses.

I've heard Classic described as 'a class for the horses that aren't talented enough for anything else', and I disagree strongly. I plan to put my mare in Classic this year, and she is certainly not untalented, but she is a lovely, longstrided mover, and I think she fits ... might change my mind as she gets some more work though, we'll see!


----------



## Mominis (May 7, 2010)

I don't understand this tight checking thing that I've heard so much about. Having worked with large horses of trotting breeds for years, I realize the importance of training a horse to get up headed in the bridle. However, a tight check will just make a horse lean on the bit. If he is correctly taught to push from behind, then the check is more of an ornament than anything.


----------



## RhineStone (May 7, 2010)

The differences in the classes should be for the design/conformation of the horse, not the wishes and desires of the owner/trainer/driver. And the "value" of the horse should be based on how well that particular horse moves and behaves, not how high he is checked up. If he is designed to carry his head high, and he is moving round and reaching forward with what looks like little effort, then THAT is a good horse. If he is checked up that way because somebody wants him to be, is hollow, legs trailing out behind him, is irritable, and not moving forward, well, find a different job for the horse. If he is low headed and is peanut-rolling with no impulsion, that too isn't a great horse. If he is low-headed, tracking up and producing a nice swinging stride, then his head will be in the right spot naturally.

If there is anything that I have learned since my years in 4-H, it is that headsets are not made by "artificial" means, good headsets are made by good training from the hind. There are way too many people working on driving the front end of the horse instead of the back. Horses should have "rear-wheel-drive" power. If they have that, THEN they will also have extension AND a great headset!

Myrna


----------



## targetsmom (May 7, 2010)

Oh, man, you guys are scaring me!!! I am entering Princess in Classic Pleasure on Sunday. I am sure there are some who think it is for horses that are not talented enough for anything else, or maybe an entry level class, but I do think it is where she fits. She has long sweeping strides and carries her head low (on a loose side check) with the front of her face perpendicular to the ground. She is steady, relaxed, and round. She is also engaging her rear end and can actually lengthen her stride - something I rarely see when I watch driving classes on web casts (of course that could be the quality of the web cast too).

My husband will try to get photos and maybe I can post some here. Maybe you will like her even if the judges don't.


----------



## Mominis (May 8, 2010)

Sounds like she should do well! Looking forward to hearing how it goes. Good luck!


----------



## targetsmom (May 10, 2010)

I ended up not showing in driving, but I can give a bit of a report. The weather was awful - 38 degrees in the AM with wind gusts up to 45 mph. I don't know the wind chill factor but it was too cold for horses and people!! There was one entry in the Classic class, another person who also does ADS with a horse with a low headset and using a wooden wheeled cart. I think it would have been interesting to see how the judges would have placed it though, because that horse moved very different from the way Princess moves. But I think both belonged in the class.

The other reason we opted out of driving was because it was our colt's (Max, in Avatar) first show, and he did GREAT!!! Kept me coming back for Champion classes where he won a Grand and 4 Reserves against some recent World Champions (and much more experienced handlers). Princess also won her halter class, but was not going to compete for Champion against that caliber of mini.


----------



## Shortpig (May 10, 2010)

targetsmom said:


> I ended up not showing in driving, but I can give a bit of a report. The weather was awful - 38 degrees in the AM with wind gusts up to 45 mph. I don't know the wind chill factor but it was too cold for horses and people!! There was one entry in the Classic class, another person who also does ADS with a horse with a low headset and using a wooden wheeled cart. I think it would have been interesting to see how the judges would have placed it though, because that horse moved very different from the way Princess moves. But I think both belonged in the class.
> 
> The other reason we opted out of driving was because it was our colt's (Max, in Avatar) first show, and he did GREAT!!! Kept me coming back for Champion classes where he won a Grand and 4 Reserves against some recent World Champions (and much more experienced handlers). Princess also won her halter class, but was not going to compete for Champion against that caliber of mini.



Congratulations on your wins!



I am sorry the weather didn't work out for you to drive Princess in the class you wanted to. This has been such a yucky spring for everyone. This week should be a really nice one though.


----------



## hobbyhorse23 (May 10, 2010)

That's awesome Mary!! Congrats to you and Max both!

Leia


----------

