# Appropriate and Fair Stud Fees



## Frankie (Jan 16, 2006)

As we look for "R" studs for 2 of our girls. When pricing stud fees, what constitutes a fair price?

We are going to say they are all pretty much of the good conformation.

Also, all are offering the same type of service and contract.

So what makes a stud fee higher than another?

What would you pay for a stud fee to a show stallion, National top 5?

What would you pay for a stud fee to a show horse who just consistantly places?

A horse never been shown but of good quality?

A horse that has not been showm, but his get does great in the show ring?

I have looked at site after site and can't quite figure out why some are $1500 and some $250.

Would like your opinions on what you would pay for the above mentioned.

Thanks


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## EquestraDreams (Jan 16, 2006)

For my situation - I would look for a stallion that has produced multiple National/World/Congress Champions in the area that I was looking for success (halter, pleasure driving, etc.) A show record for the stallion would be a plus, but I take the records of his foals into the most consideration. For example I'll take one of my favorite stallions ever - Little Kings Buck on Broadway - He was unshown, but has produced more than 30 National Champions or National Top Tens. That record speaks for itself, and I would expect to pay a LOT more than $250 for a breeding to him. I would expect to pay much less for a National Champion/Top Ten stallion that does not have any/many foals on the ground as you are taking a greater chance on the quality of the foal you are breeding for. I personally would NOT breed to an outside stallion without either a National Champion/Top Ten or National Champion/Top Ten offspring.


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## lyn_j (Jan 16, 2006)

[SIZE=14pt]Our young unproven stallion is standing at 500 for this first year. He has been national top 10 every year since he was 4 months old. He is double reg aspc amhr and will be amha at age 5. He has proven himself in the show ring but not yet as a sire. His brother also amhr aspc was national futurity champion, has his halter hall of fame. Was top 5 in pleasure and park at nationals is a B size, had his first foal crop two years ago so his stud fee last year was 750-. He how lives in TX with his new owners and Im sure his fee is more this year. For a horse that places consistantly at NATIONALS I would expect to pay from 750 and up.... 1000 or 1500 is not unheard of. For a horse that is being shown at a local level at amhr rated shows and WINNING consistantly 350-500. For a horse that doesnt do any of that I wouldnt pay anything.... i wouldnt use them. There are enough stallions within driving distance that do fit the other criteria. I would also want a live foal guarantee when paying 750 or more.That meaning a live standing foal or a return breeding .[/SIZE]

Lyn


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## Jill (Jan 16, 2006)

I would think part of it has to do with how much the owner of the stallion actually wants to "fool with" other people's mares. I personally cannot see how someone with a GOOD show stallion would want to stand him publicly at $250. No way. When the time comes, I do not plan to stand Destiny and DunIT cheaply. So far, they've got amazing show records but mainly, I just don't want it to be easy for a person to breed to them and don't want a lot of mares in foal at low stud fees -- as then I bet some of those foals would sell for "cheap" prices.


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## Cathy_H (Jan 16, 2006)

$250 or $1500 it would not matter to me IF there is a BIG difference in the quality of the foals that they are producing.... I would look at their foals & try to find some that have matured also..... I would go with the stallion that has proven he can sire high quality foals & the look that I like if I feel the price is reasonable.........

If this is the same with all the stallions being considered then I would have the bloodline, reputation of the breeder  & color being produced help me make the final decision............ Show record may be the tie breaker if all else is equal, but we would plan on making our future foal its own show record so this is not priority......

Mine & Lee's plan is to get down to one or two mini broodmares. We will be selling our stallion & will

send these broodmares out to other farms to be bred. But my first plan is to perhaps lease a stallion that Lee will show in exchange for these breedings. What I stated above will help make our decision.


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## Magic (Jan 16, 2006)

Frankie said:


> What would you pay for a stud fee to a show stallion, National top 5?
> 
> What would you pay for a stud fee to a show horse who just consistantly places?
> 
> ...




Ok, a lot of this depends on the stallion himself--  do I LOVE the way he looks and moves? If not, I wouldn't bother breeding a mare to him, no matter what he's done. Also I would consider if his conformation "complements" that of my mare's. Then, I would say that a stallion that has "proven get" would be the most desirable, so would likely command the highest price, whether the stallion himself has ever been shown or not. If his get are consistently winning in the show ring, (and the get are beautiful and athletic of course) then that stallion has what it takes to be a successful sire, IMO.

The most I've ever paid for a breed fee was $1000 (LFG) and I've paid $500 to $750 to breed mares to National Champion winning stallions with proven winning get. (those were good deals!)

I agree with Jill too-- it depends on how much you would like a foal by a certain stallion, and how much it is worth to the owners of that stallion to stand him. Ultimately it is a personal decision-- what are you willing to pay? A "fair" stud fee is what makes it worth it to the stallion's owners to deal with breeding outside mares (done it before and not sure I would want to do it again!). Then it's up to those interested to decide if they want to pay that, or look for a different stallion.


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## Sue_C. (Jan 16, 2006)

> For a horse that doesnt do any of that I wouldnt pay anything.... i wouldnt use them.


Ahhhh...but you just might "do" yourself out of the "deal of a lifetime"...never say never. :bgrin

One of the best, most "winingest" Appaloosas I ever showed, was a product of "un-shown heros". He went into a halter class, he came out with the first place ribbon... As a yearling, he had to go into a senior class due to low numbers in the junior's...and beat them all. One of the horses he beat that time, was one who at 12 years of age, had never been beaten in Canada, or the US. He went on to be an awesome riding horse as well, and even last year, at 21 years of age, one Judge remarked he had never seen a more beautiful horse. (And I had him gelded, and am happy I did.)

Anyways...back to the subject...yes, a young colt is the best deal, in many cases. BUT...you really have to know how to judge a foal for this to work out...and many people can't. It isn't easy, for sure!


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## wcr (Jan 16, 2006)

Goals, goals, goals. What are the goals you are working towards? Are you the serious competitor looking to be a national contender? If that is your goal then I would look for a horse that compliments the mare you are planning to breed. Then I would look at pedigrees. What have they done and what are they producing. When I was breeding paints and using shipped semen I could pick and chose all over the country for stallions that meet my criteria. I only looked at world or reserve world horses with nationally recognized pedigrees.

Are you the backyard breeder that only wants a pet? If that is the case I wouldn't pay high fees for a pet and top breeders probably wouldn't breed your mare anyway.

That said, I would expect to pay more for a top quality stallion but wouldn't go over $1000 for a mini stallion. There are so many stallions out there that you need to know where your finances stand as to what you can look at realistically. Most people can keep a mini stallion and looking on this forum, most of us have our own stallions. That would limit the amount of fee I would ask for breeding my stallions to outside horses. Unless you have a really top stallion and the client base to justify the fees asked then you have priced yourself out of the market. If I was in the $1000 range then you better have all the foal guarantees there to make it attractive to potential clients.

For mare owners, once you have the mare bred then all the costs are the same for care, feeding ect. The cheapest part is the breeding fee when all is factored in and there is a big difference in a $500 vs. $1000 stud fee. This puts you back at the beginning of knowing what your goals are. Once you have done your research and found several stallions that fit your criteria and are comparable then it becomes obvious in the difference in stud fees and associated fees of getting your mare in foal and the guarantees offered.

I know this a a little off the subject but, if you as a mare owner have thought this through, then you can figure out where you stand as far as setting a stud fee for your stallion and what you are willing to offer to potential clients.


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## HGFarm (Jan 16, 2006)

Personally, titles are nice, but not necessary. I look at what a sire produces. Are his foals better than he is? You may find one that is show quality but just never been shown, or not much and is not a Top Five or Hall of Fame, but.... perhaps has foals that are.

You would want your foals to be something hopefully that would be the highest quality you can find.

I have seen horses that were halter champions etc.... never sire anything that was worth a darn. Not just talking about Minis either.

I look at a stallions records as a sire, not just what he himself has done in the show ring.


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## SHANA (Jan 16, 2006)

Hi,

I have a coming 3 year old AMHA/AMHR stallion. He has good bloodlines. His sire is Olive Branchs KO Punch(Stouts Supreme + Princess Kewanee, by Mini Bits Playboy) and dam is Lil Dobbins Miss Independence(Searchlight Vant Huttenest + Dell Teras Lady D, by Dell Teras Moon Man). He was bred by Cherokee Stables(Tim and Connie Ballard), in Ohio. He bred one mare in 2005. He has placed at our local fairs, winning 2 halter classes, and being named Jr. Champion and Grand Champion Stallion. Since I am in Quebec and we do not have many minis in our area I put his stud fee at $150 purebred minis/ $75 grade ponies. This includes 10 days free mare care but you supply grain if mini mare gets grain as not all horses eat the same grain. This price in no way makes him not as good as other stallions. I'd rather have a reasonable stud fee then one to expensive. My older arabian mare, Phancy. Well her dam's sire sold for 1 million US in 1981, and his 1983 stud fee was $10,000 US. Well Phancy's sire, was a son of the 1973 Eastern Canadian Breeders Champion Stallion but his stud fee was only $350 mare care included. I got a great mare out of it who has done well in her show career and I have been offered $10,000 for her so just because a stud fee is low does not make the stallion not as good as some of the more popular stallions. Cody's stud fee will stay low even if he has a huge impressive show record. I know how hard it is to save money to breed your mare. I have been breeding arabian horses since 1993. The lowest stud fee I ever paid was $250 and the highest was $750. I especially like to help young people like myself. I am only 27 and currently jobless with 11 horse to feed.




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