# Probably a Very Silly Question, But...



## Matt73 (Jul 11, 2006)

How long have the so-called Modern Shetlands been around. It seems that there is an awfully large amount of Hackney Pony in them. I know that there are breeds that refine other breeds and help to create new breeds but...they're so similar. They should almost be labeled Miniature Hackney's (or Miniature Hackney Pony's?) (I hope I'm not creating a battle here




I've just gotten back in the industry in the last 4 years, and a shetland was always a cute little pony to me. Can someone please explain when this happened (this is all tongue in cheek :bgrin )


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## kaykay (Jul 12, 2006)

hi matt

i dont know if this is a real question or a joke? I have a modern pleasure pony. She has a B designation on her papers because she has hackney blood. But she does not fit the typical modern description so she is modern pleasure. There are many different classes of Shetlands such as classic, foundation etc. If you like the old style pony then you would probably like foundation shetlands


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## Matt73 (Jul 12, 2006)

kaykay said:


> hi matt
> 
> i dont know if this is a real question or a joke? I have a modern pleasure pony. She has a B designation on her papers because she has hackney blood. But she does not fit the typical modern description so she is modern pleasure. There are many different classes of Shetlands such as classic, foundation etc. If you like the old style pony then you would probably like foundation shetlands



It's not a joke; I was curious



. Thanks Kay!


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## Leeana (Jul 12, 2006)

But they still have allot of Shetland blood in them.

If they were called 'Miniature Hackney Ponies' ....then people would be saying 'but they have so much shetland blood in them, there not hackneys'. You would be arguing they other side.

I am a Classic Shetland person, but i'm starting to like the the Modern look allot. They Shetland/Hackney blood in a Modern is evened out in my eyes.

Not all Modern Ponies look like hackneys either! I didnt even know Kay's Modern (Patches) was a Modern, not all Moderns should be thrown into the hackney catigory.



> I've just gotten back in the industry in the last 4 years, and a shetland was always a cute little pony to me.


Was it a REAL shetland? Unless that 'shetland' had ASPC papers and the Shetland bloodline in him/her ...it was not a shetland. Shetland is a bloodline, it must be registered or carry the bloodline to be a shetland.



.


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## spazkat (Jul 12, 2006)

Matt73 said:


> It seems that there is an awfully large amount of Hackney Pony in them.


Im not sure what you mean by "a large amount" of Hackney... Ive owned many moderns, and none have had more hackney than maybe 1 great grandparent, many have had none showing at all in even an extended pedigree. Do you mean they look alot like Hackney ponies or have alot of actual Hackney blood in their pedigree? Or do you by chance have Modern Shetlands mixed up with ASPR ponies who can be full blooded hackneys or direct Hackney crosses?

A lot of people are surprised when they see a registered American Shetland, since when they were growing up any small fat fuzzy pony was often referred to as a "shetland pony". Also many reference books have only the British Shetlands pictured, and that is a far different style pony than an an American Shetland.


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## kaykay (Jul 12, 2006)

leanna that is why its so confusing to people (the diff classes of shetlands) LOL. Patches only has one cross to a hackney but its pretty close up. As you know she looks NOTHING like a modern but becuase of that one cross shes B papered shetland and shows as Modern Pleasure. She did inherit the beautiful natural movement of a hackney but not the body type. Most people think shes a quarter pony LOL.

Patches when she was in show shape for matts refernece


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## Leeana (Jul 12, 2006)

When i use to think of Shetland ...this is what i use to think of ...

www.halstockshetlands.co.uk/index.htm <Shetland Farm in the UK

When i was 6 i had a Small Pony that my parents always refered to a shetland ...well when i got into shetland i learned about them being a bloodline ext and Molly (my pony when i was a kid) was not a shetland. If its small and fat, people think its a shetland when in reality Shetland are not short, fat and lazy. These Modern shetlands are living proof.

If the Moderns really bother you, there are many Classics out there for you to enjoy



:

I'm not a big fan of Gaited horses, so i never rode any growing up. If you dont like Moderns, you dont have to have them.





Different people like different things.


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## Wally (Jul 12, 2006)

I live in Shetland and have about 25 Island bred guys. Mostly over 38 inches. But we have one 36 inch mare who is an utter sweetheart.

Not one of them is lazy, One of the pairs I drive will take your breath away and keep pace, on the back step, for 25km of any big horse. Not for the nervous passenger or driver.

The modern ones you have in the US coun't survive out here with out being stabled in winter. Nothing wrong with that, they live and have been bred in a different climate.

As I am a driving fan I have always fancied a Hackney X Shetland, just for concours classes. But I am not one for mucking stables out so I keep to my Island bred chunky types.

The main reason I have what I have is our climate and environment. I have Icelandics to ride and Fjords to ride and drive for the same reasons I keep Island bred Shetlands, because they don't mind the weather,


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## disneyhorse (Jul 12, 2006)

My Modern Pony is A papered, which means she doesn't have ANY hackney blood close up (close up, I'm not saying none at all!). She is by no means a fat, fuzzy pony!

I understand that the American Shetland Pony has always had influx of hackney and welsh starting LONG LONG ago (not just a decade or two!) and Americans always prefer animals with longer legs, more upright appearances, and more motion (not just horses, but dogs, etc.) for whatever reason. Here's my A papered Modern:











I am so in love with Moderns! This mare is my first, and DEFINITELY not my last!

Andrea

I want to second someone's suggestion that you would like the Foundation Shetlands. They have heavier bone than the Modern or Classics.

Andrea


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## Lewella (Jul 13, 2006)

> The modern ones you have in the US coun't survive out here with out being stabled in winter. Nothing wrong with that, they live and have been bred in a different climate.


I'll have to beg to differ with this statement! I live in Minnesota where we have at least one straight week each winter where our temperatures do not go over 0 degrees F (which is about -13 C). My ponies have run in sheds, even the Moderns, and they survive just fine without blankets or any special treatment. If they can survive a windy, cold, snowy Minnesota winter without being pampered they can survive any cold climate without being pampered.



:

To get back to the original topic......

The American Shetland has been a more refined pony than the UK Shetland since the late 1800's. When boatloads of ponies were being imported to the US the ponies the importers were wanting to import were the more refined, upheaded, carriage style individuals. Crossing to Hackney's started to become popular in the 1950's but probably started much earlier. At that time the cross breds were registered as Harness Show Ponies. When the Shetland boom happened in the late 50's and early 60's more cross breeding occured to fill the increased demand for ponies (to both Hackney and Welsh - the old timers say the ideal was 1/2 Shetland, 1/4 Hackney, and 1/4 Welsh). Cross breeding didn't come out from behind the barn and become legitimized until the 1970's when the B division was created. The acceptable outcrosses for the B division while it was open were Hackney, Welsh, Harness Show Pony, and Americana (a part Shetland/part Hackney registry). The B division has been close for about a decade now and outcrossing is no longer allowed. In the foreseeable future a time will come when there are no longer any B papered Shetlands - all individuals will be 12.5% or less outcross.


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## Leeana (Jul 13, 2006)

Basically what all this ends up as is a personal opinion



. The shetland breed has just as much diversity as any other breed. I've always been facinated by the Shetlands because you have 2 completely different types of horses in the same breed that come from basically the same bloodlines.

Some people like the look of the Moderns and some dont, like i said it will come down to a personal opinion. Its like the Quarter Horse & Arabian people argument, it could go on forever



. I like the A & B papered moderns and i'm not one who would own a hackney pony but i do like them (there just a bit larger then what i like).

I dont own a Modern but i am just facinated by them and how much work goes into them (even pleasure moderns).

But most Moderns have more Shetland in them then Hackney which is the case in most shetlands in the ASPC registry.

So like i said, this just boils down to a personal opinion like more horse related topics.

This topic has been very interesting!!


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## alphahorses (Jul 17, 2006)

This is a website that I started working on last winter .. and will continue to work on during "off season"

www.ReferenceHorses.com

If you go to the shetland stallions page http://www.referencehorses.com/photoindex/...ndstallions.htm you'll see photos of some of the early American shetlands - many of whom (supposedly) have not hackney background but have that hackney action.

For example, look at ponies like Colonel Cody and Rips Little Masterpiece and King Larigo II. I haven't posted a photo of King Larigo trotting, but if you see one, you would see that he had that high stepping action as well.

Crossing shetlands with hackneys certainly added a lot of what we call the "Modern" look into some of today's shetlands, but there were people in the earliest days of the registry that were breeding shetlands to shetlands to try to produce that look.

GC Stable is right . .. it is an interesting topic!

Added: By the way, I had a Michigan Mare who was Grand Champion Modern Mare at Congress and completely "A" papered. When bred to a foundation stallion, her foal looked foundation and was foundation eligible.


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