# Just head from a BOD member



## Lewella

I just received an email from a director that yesterday the BOD made the descision to stop putting the A's and B's from papers effective March 1, 2008!!!!!!!!!! We will apparently now show on type.........


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## SweetOpal

wow!!! I am shocked as well. Is this for the miniatures or for the shetlands, I remember at Convention that it came up for the minis and was of course voted down by the members.


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## Lewella

The BOD member I heard from just mentioned that Shetlands would now be shown on type.

I want to know what is going to happen to the Foundation ponies! I have spent a lot of money on Foundation Seals and built a Foundation breeding program!


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## dannigirl

This is something that should be voted on by the owners of the ponies and not by just the board. I, too, wonder what will happen next with the foundation. I have also put a lot of time and money in my foundation stock.


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## alongman

I would like to hear from some of our BOD members....... why, when the membership voted this down, was the decision made? I help elect my BOD member based on how they will represent ME ME ME! This seems like a slap in the face if the membership isn't being accurately represented.

From a different perspective, though. I know that there are ponies who don't accurately fit the "type" classified by their papers. For example, a B-papered shetland who is very classic type. This seems to be the only situation that there would be a problem. Could we not have re-evaluated those ponies?

I guess I would like to see the exact rule change as it was written and approved. Maybe there is clarification in this somewhere.....


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## Leeana

Im kind of just riding the fence on this right now. My first reaction to the email was "WHAT???" but really after i calmed down and looked at the big picture i think im just going to wait and read others replys before drawing any side on this and getting more info on WHY they did this. Im seeing both sides.

You would think that WE would have some say in this however! I understand being upset!

That takes act SOON!!! Wait a sec, that already is taking place isnt it ..march 1 2008? Isnt that today? Are you sure its not 2009?

Edited: Fran reminded me, i forgot about leap day lol. It took place yesterday ...


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## OhHorsePee

That was yesterday Leeanna.

So is this the beginning of phasing out the foundation type????


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## Irish Hills Farm

I called and spoke to a lady that handles the shetland registrations this past Thursday in regards to two of my shetlands being foundation eligible. They both are and I sent in their papers and a check to have them foundation sealed so that I could show them in the foundation classes at Congress.

I'm gonna be upset if I just wasted money and time on having my ponies foundation sealed, and it not mean anything.


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## disneyhorse

Hmmm... this does have interesting implications with the Foundation ponies, but overall I like the idea of not having an "A" or "B" designation because that way you don't have a Classic-type B papered pony you can't show. The emphasis is on showing more on type.

That said, how many oversize, off-type Foundation ponies are out there? Just because a pony CAN get the Foundation Seal doesn't mean it it Foundation type...

Either way, it is somewhat interesting. I do agree with Adam though, if the MEMBERS want the A and B, then the MEMBERS should have the say!

Andrea


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## kaykay

heck with that lol

Oversize foundation horses cannot show foundation.

This will imo cause a huge free for all. You will now have every type of pony showing in every class. How in the heck will judges be able to penalize someone for showing off type if the majority of the class is off type?

This opens the door for small hackney ponies etc to show classic and foundation. For the breeders who have stayed true to type and breed classic and foundation ponies for generation after generation this is a huge slap in the face. breeders like Lewella (and many many others) have spent YEARS putting together foundation herds.

If I was a modern pony breeder and I produced a classic looking pony out of two moderns then I need to take a look at what im doing or just chalk it up to experience that that pony is not going to be a show pony. Not have the rules changed so that I can show my B pony as a classic! Its just not right.


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## SweetOpal

Kay,

I understand your frustration, but most of my moderns be it pleasure or modern, are A papered, I could show them all day long as classics, but I choose to show by type. And If I showed them classic I would hope it would be off type. I hardly see this guy competiting well in the classic and he is A papered.


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## kaykay

I do understand Jennifer, and I wish everyone was like you!

But there are a lot of people out there who will now show a B modern (that cant cut it in modern or modern pleasure) in classic. It will happen unfortunately and then you have the trickle down effect so it will affect all the divsions including foundation.

I have only owned shetland ponies for 7 years now. So I dont have near the investment of time, money and heart that these other farms have. It will not affect me as much personally but it will affect all divisions of Shetland Ponies.

At least with the A and B designation there was a line that you could not cross. Now the line is gone

And I have never seen a new rule put into effect this quick! wowwww


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## disneyhorse

Well eventually, since there are no longer outcrosses allowed, won't the B papered ponies dwindle away anyway? Then you would only have A papered horses, all of which could have the Foundation Seal, and then the Foundation Seal won't matter anyway!

I wonder if, with the pedigree going so far back, there was a way to see if IN THE PONY'S ENTIRE HISTORY there were any "B" papered horses? THOSE without would be "true" foundation, not just ponies who have a couple of generations of A papered horses behind them.

Since we already show by type, regardless of papers (Foundations oversize or not "in type" show Classic, Moderns with A papers not "in type" for Classic show Modern, and Classics who are A papered but not "in type for Classic show Modern Pleasure) I don't see why it's such a big deal.

I see very few "true" Foundation ponies anyway in the ring. They all look like small Classics to me. Small Classics are showing Foundation just so they don't have to compete against the taller ponies.

I see both sides... maybe there is a different solution for the Foundation issue. But nowadays, the A and B doesn't mean much between Modern and Classic. Half my Moderns are A papered. Eventually these A papered Moderns will be able to be Foundation Sealed, what good will that do?

They are shown by type and I think that is just fine.

Andrea


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## SweetOpal

disneyhorse said:


> Well eventually, since there are no longer outcrosses allowed, won't the B papered ponies dwindle away anyway? Then you would only have A papered horses, all of which could have the Foundation Seal, and then the Foundation Seal won't matter anyway!


Well most Modern breeders that are breeding for the true modern, have B papered stallions, some A and B papered mares, so those offspring will always remain B papered due to the fact those B's will never turn to A's....So I don't see it happening that all B papers would eventually only produce A papered horses. That is my take on it anyways.


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## Lewella

Eventually yes, everything would become A but as Jennifer mentioned there are still a lot of B papered ponies out there that are still 50% Hackney and their offspring will never be A papered and many of their offspring's offspring will never be A papered. Totally breeding out the B will take another 50 or more years.

I agree that when it comes to Classic, Modern Pleasure and Modern that going strictly by type IF IMPLEMENTED WITH GOOD RULES would be possible. But it needs to be rules like PtHA has - you register the pony by TYPE and then you MUST stay within that type. You can change type ONCE during the lifetime of that pony and you must pay $100 to do so. But you have to have type rules and right now we don't!

As for the Foundation Division - not only have many of us built Foundation breeding programs but we've had to pay EXTRA to make those ponies Foundation Certified ponies! If my Foundation Seal is suddenly worth nothing than by george I want my Foundation seal money back! I can think of 20 ponies I certified off the top of my head! I'm sure there are several others I'm forgetting at the moment. I know of other farms that have spent $500 plus on Foundation certifications.

And in case anyone wonders - I have never certified a pony that was "bred up" to Foundation. Every single pony I have ever certified has no B papered ponies it it's pedigree at all.

The reason in some areas you see small Classics in Foundation classes is easily fixed by offering Classic UNDER classes! Royal Splish Splash achieved his ASPC Halter Hall of Fame showing as an Under Classic!

There are already A papered Moderns with the Foundation Seal but the vast majority of them do not meet the height requirement. (Spit-N-Image had the Foundation Seal) That's always been an issue and the reason many of us who breed and show Foundation ponies have for years been trying to find a way to give the division more teeth. It's also why we have fought so hard to keep Foundation 42" and under for show purposes.

I spoke with a show manager earlier who asked how show managers should handle B papered ponies at shows this summer and this show manager was told that they can now show in whatever division they wish to show in. This show manager interpreted this to mean that a B papered pony can show in the Foundation division if the owner wants it to......


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## Lmequine

disneyhorse said:


> Well eventually, since there are no longer outcrosses allowed, won't the B papered ponies dwindle away anyway? Then you would only have A papered horses, all of which could have the Foundation Seal, and then the Foundation Seal won't matter anyway!
> 
> Andrea


There are several breeders that have B papered ponies that are bred to B papered ponies and those foals will also be B papered. Until those die out or people stop breeding B to B then there are always going to be some B papered ponies, at least in my lifetime. I think that theoretically Shetlands can be bred to all become A's but many breeders are happy with their B papered ponies and will continue to breed B to B.

I personally feel ill over the whole thing mainly because of what it will do to our foundation ponies. Many people have spent a lot of money searching for and buying foundation ponies and spending the money to have older ponies foundation certified. A lot of us have went out of our way to support the foundation certification and to show truly foundation ponies. Again, I can maybe go for the idea of showing by type (if that was clearly clarified and followed in the showring) but why do away with the letter designation which will kill the foundation certification process?? I know the ASPC is making money with the foundation program and I doubt that ASPC is going to want to pay everyone back that has spent money for the foundation certification (and I CERTAINLY want my money back if I now has a worthless foundation seal). I will say if they are doing away with the foundation program what a lousy way to go about it and it really undermines the people that are breeding strictly for foundation certified AND foundation type ponies.


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## ponyarab

kaykay said:


> I do understand Jennifer, and I wish everyone was like you!
> 
> But there are a lot of people out there who will now show a B modern (that cant cut it in modern or modern pleasure) in classic. It will happen unfortunately and then you have the trickle down effect so it will affect all the divsions including foundation.
> 
> I have only owned shetland ponies for 7 years now. So I dont have near the investment of time, money and heart that these other farms have. It will not affect me as much personally but it will affect all divisions of Shetland Ponies.
> 
> At least with the A and B designation there was a line that you could not cross. Now the line is gone
> 
> And I have never seen a new rule put into effect this quick! wowwww


I agree that there will be people showing their B modern in a classic class. In the foundation classes here in our area several of us have seen small classics showing in the foundation classes. A friend of mine has a true "Foundation" pony and last year when she went in her class there were 2 other ponies in the class and both were small classics and both beat her true foundation* pony. One of the people came out of the class and made a comment to my friend that "I don't know what happened in there as your pony was a true foundation and mine was not". *



* Well in my opinion they should not have been in the foundation class then if they new their pony was not a foundation but they do it because they know they can get away with it. I think things like this will make it very discouraging to the people who raise the true foundation ponies if they are not going to have a shot at all. *





* *

*
Kim*


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## alongman

Just wanted to post a quick update. I called and spoke with Larry Parnell and several other board members about what was going on.... more or less just getting clarification rather than ranting and raving without knowing. Here's the deal:

The A and B papers are going away - no longer will a pony be designated as such. The ponies, instead, will show based on type despite their breeding. This will allow the B papered "classicy" pony to show as a Classic and vice versa. *The Foundation Seal will NOT go away*. Those ponies that are Foundation eligible will remain as such and be papered as such and have classes for them. Larry stated that these "are the only truly bred shetlands" and for the most part, I do agree. The Foundation ponies clearly have a history of being shetland. The Foundation horses will still have their classes for those ponies that meet Foundation type - same as today.

Larry did NOT see this as a bad thing - in fact, maybe increasing the business for the true Foundation breeders. These are the ONLY ponies now that will have the seal to prove their heritage! I could see it from this perspective - as someone who has purchased some Foundation animals this past couple years, I will continue to look for the "Foundation breeders" to purchase my stock from.

I hope I got all that right - if there is a BOD member on that wants to clarify, that would be great. I hope it sheds some light on what's going on.

Edited to say - It is still up to the responsible show person to know what "type" their horse is and place them in the correct class at a show. It is also up to the judges to recognize "off type" and not place them if they are showing in the incorrect class.


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## disneyhorse

Well, if there is no "A" and "B" to research by to GET a Foundation Seal, how is the Registry going to research pedigree to determine? It seems if the Registry wants to preserve the Foundation division, it will need to create some method of determining. Perhaps they can "create" some additional value by only allowing a Foundation Sealed pony bred to a Foundation Sealed pony to GET a Foundation eligible pony... or give the seal for "Free" to any additional new registered ponies whose parents already HAVE seals.

But yes, Adam... I think it will be nice for new members/new to ponies exhibitors to be able to show a "classic-y" B papered pony in Classic, and to just show by TYPE.

And, as Adam had explained in a previous post about showing off-type ponies, a challenge a judge has is to place the class before them. If a judge has two classics and a foundation pony in their Foundation Halter class, but the classics are clearly better quality, do they place the foundation pony who may have some faults, ahead of the other two ponies purely because of type? This is a judgement call that I am sure every judge must make!

Not all exhibitors can determine what type their pony is! Especially new-to-shetland exhibitors! I have trouble myself with the "borderline" ponies... it's NOT black and white no matter how much people will complain about the Modern Pleasure in their Classic class, or visa versa, or the "small Classic" in their Foundation class... it's a GREY AREA.

Andrea


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## muffntuf

Edited to say - It is still up to the responsible show person to know what "type" their horse is and place them in the correct class at a show. It is also up to the judges to recognize "off type" and not place them if they are showing in the incorrect class.

I agree it is the responsibility of the exhibitor to know what "type" pony they are showing and put them in the correct class. The judges therefore, better not place wrong type in the top of the class and as an extra effort as education needs to occur, mention why a pony did not place in the class if the exhibitor wants to understand better where to put their pony.

Man this must be the year for changes, AQHA and APHA have made big rule changes too. No longer can you show a performance horse just in a performance class, you have to put them in a performance halter class now to qualify. Also they are accepted outcrops in each registry from the other registry, only as breeding stock, but heck those classes are now getting to be huge!

LOL! I believe foundation will stay foundation and have its seal, so I am not worried about you guys!


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## alongman

I agree that there has to be some method to determine who is eligible for a Foundation seal...... I didn't get that point clarified, but I'm guessing that there is something somewhere.

As for the judging aspect - it is VERY difficult at some times. In the Foundation class if there is two conformationally correct ponies and one non-conformationally correct Foundation, what do you do?! I would LOVE to hear the opinions...... if I place the truly Foundation pony then this is seen as placing a lesser pony over the others. If I place the classicy ponies, then I'm placing possibly off-type. What is the solution?! I don't think there is a great one...... PLUS it puts the judges in a very sticky situation. I think that we all, yes, even the new people, should look at the standard of perfection as established by the rule book. It clearly spells out what each division should look like - I believe that the ponies in the "gray" area are less scrutinized as they do possibly look somewhat like two types, it's the ones that are CLEARLY Classic showing Foundation that cause the problems.


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## bingo

Well the only logical way to continue on with the foundation seal program is to allow only foals born to those currently foundation sealed sire and dam to be eligible for registrion


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## Lmequine

bingo said:


> Well the only logical way to continue on with the foundation seal program is to allow only foals born to those currently foundation sealed sire and dam to be eligible for registrion


The only problem with this (breeding only foundation sealed ponies to foundation seal ponies) is there was no warning of the change. I have three foundation mares in their mid-twenties that I do not have foundation sealed. I could not see paying to have that done and then them never producing another foal. When and if they do foal I pay to have the foal foundation cerfified. I have recently bought a couple of foundation mares (very foundation type) that have never been certified and I have not had a chance to get that done yet with them. Again, if I would have been told that the program was going to be changed I could have gotten those mares certified.


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## Shari S

I spoke with Belinda tonight, and if I understood correctly, NOTHING is changing regarding Foundation ponies. The registry will still be able to do a pedigree search to certify a pony, those ponies who already have Foundation seals are still foundation ponies, etc. It will still take a foundation certified pony, under 42" to be eligible to show in a Foundation class.

Shari Seddon

Rhapsody Shetlands


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## Boinky

you would think for research/registry purposes they'd still leave the A/B's on the papers but to change the show rules that they show by TYPE.....


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## Lewella

Boinky said:


> you would think for research/registry purposes they'd still leave the A/B's on the papers but to change the show rules that they show by TYPE.....


I agree! As breeders we use the A and the B as a tool when planning matings.

Why couldn't ALL OF THIS have waited until Convention??? What was the hurry???

I now know how the AMHR folks felt when the Hardship of grades was closed with no warning!


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## muffntuf

So I don't think all is lost now. By rules Foundations would have stayed foundation and not been lost. It sounds like have cemented that in.

I wonder how they are going to notify the membership of this change - the next Journal which doesn't reach us until late May early June? Or are they going to send out letters?

Guess we have to wait.


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## Sharron

My take on the controversy of removing the A's & B's from the papers...this response was in answer to Arlene Foulk's reply on another board...I still feel as strongly as I did when I wrote and posted it to that board...Instead of belaboring the point to death, maybe we should all step back and look at breeding programs...and try to access if we are doing and breeding the type of ponies we really want...and can market them as *truly* as possible according to their type!!! Who can answer yes to that statement honestly...I for one can!






Both exhibitors and judges have the responsibility of knowing the difference between foundation and classic. Arlene

My comment *"it needs to also fall back on the breeders!!! To know what type of ponies they are producing and market them accordingly!"*

I agree Arlene, however EVERYONE that is breeding ponies SHOULD know which TYPE of ponies THEY are breeding for. If they don't then WHY are they breeding ponies at all? And if they don't, then they need to EDUCATE themselves on the various types on ponies within our association! An occassional anticipated breeding of mare to stallion, just may NOT produce the anticipated type...every breeder should know where that resulting pony goes...even IF it does have a foundation seal on it's papers, and is obviously Classic in type...again breeder responsibility!

Most successful breeding programs, that have proven winners in their divisions, the breeders KNOW the type of ponies they are producing, putting them in their correct divisions irregardless of the A or B on the papers, and I feel very strongly those individuals will continue to be the responsible breeders they are and continue to place their ponies in the correct type they should be in... As far as the new people to our wonderful breed of ponies...it is THEIR responsibility to do some research before they buy a pony, and NOT take someone's word that "that is what they were told, as to where the pony should be shown" and it is up to US the breeders to market our ponies correctly, and help EDUCATE these new people to help them understand the many nuances of the pony world. Again breeder responsibility... Marketing ponies in the area they are typed in, and not just to make a sale, hanging that new owner out to dry and make them look like fools, because they were told by the breeder that "this pony should be shown in Foundation"! When it is actually a Classic or MP!

In todays depressed economy, it is hard enough to get a decent price for a pony these days, with out driving away our potential buyers, by making a huge too doo about removing the A or B from a ponies papers.

Most people wouldn't go out and buy a car or truck without doing some research as to which would suit them the best...Why would they go out and buy a pony without doing the same research?

I also have talked to some directors, Amber's post about the computer doing the percentages, was correct...How would you feel if you sent in papers on a pony that had A papers on both sides, and got a B papered pony back, because the "human error" was taken out of the figuring the equasion, for the pony...the computer only knows percentages...This unfortunately goes WAY back in our association when "favors" and mis-figuring was done, by accident or on purpose. It is Now time to correct those mistakes, and move forward to giving our ponies more credibility as far as other breed associations and the horse world in general are concerned...we have to take THE steps to move forward and educate not only the new buyers, but some breeders that are in confusion, as to the type of ponies they are producing, I have preached for years EDUCATE, EDUCATE, EDUCATE...Now is the time to step up to the plate, and either GET educated, or educate those that need it.

OK Flame suit on...fire away...

Sharron


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## alongman

Sharron -

I do agree with everything you said, my only response is this - the membership voted NOT to do this. Our BOD went against what it seems the membership wanted. I, for one, had no idea that this was occurring at the BOD meeting, didn't see it published anywhere (maybe I missed it). That is my biggest issue with the whole matter - not that it is changing but the way it did.


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## Sharron

alongman said:


> Sharron -
> 
> I do agree with everything you said, my only response is this - the membership voted NOT to do this. Our BOD went against what it seems the membership wanted. I, for one, had no idea that this was occurring at the BOD meeting, didn't see it published anywhere (maybe I missed it). That is my biggest issue with the whole matter - not that it is changing but the way it did.


Hi Adam

We all have to remember that this organization IS a BOARD run organization, and they can make any decision concerning the running of the Club, that they deem necessary...They have the right to overturn the decision made by the members at convention. I realize many feel this was done "sneakily, and it came as a shock to me too, but when I thought about what "could have happened" by not catching the mistakes that put up the red flag in the first place, and realized the thousands of papers that would have made a munity of the members...this seemed like a logical move...I agree with Amy R when she says we need to wait and see how this is all going to play out...

JMO for what it's worth...

sharron


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## alongman

Thanks for your input Sharron......


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## mendocinobackofbeyond

Hi All: I'll be repeating some things that others have said and I apologize. Some misconceptions: The A/B thing has nothing to do with AMHR; nor anything to do with the height of Foundation type ponies. It is strictly to do with A/B designation on Shetland papers. Also, a currently registered B Shetland will not be able to show in the Classic classes. The already designated B animals will remain just that that B. It will only be new registered ponies that will have no A/B and it is possible that some of them would have, under the old rules, been registered B, but will no longer. I don't know that it's necessarily going to be a bad thing. I doubt very seriously that I would ever breed a B to a B and then try to show the offspring Classic -- even I'm not brave enough to push the line that much!

I do think they'll have to do something to insure that the Foundation ponies can stay Foundation and that Foundation breeders can be assurred that no B is allowed to drift into their stock.

Since we're already supposed to showing by type, that shouldn't change either. Right now I think we're all, a little bit, running around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling".

An interesting note: if would help if the BOD was better informed before they attend their meetings. I spoke with both of my Directors and they did get an agenda (novel idea), but on the agenda, all it had noted was "A+A= B". No follow up materials. Zip. So our Directors, and not just Area 7 (only Jim Curry able to attend this meeting), had no idea what they were walking into...which seems to be the method of accomplishing things in this organization. The BOD is treated sort of like they rounded up mustangs in the old days for slaughter -- run 'em down the canyon, into the pen; up the ramp into the truck and drop 'em at the slaughter house before they have a chance to think, or talk to their membership. JMO Ta, Shirlee


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## txminipinto

mendocinobackofbeyond said:


> An interesting note: if would help if the BOD was better informed before they attend their meetings. I spoke with both of my Directors and they did get an agenda (novel idea), but on the agenda, all it had noted was "A+A= B". No follow up materials. Zip. So our Directors, and not just Area 7 (only Jim Curry able to attend this meeting), had no idea what they were walking into...which seems to be the method of accomplishing things in this organization. The BOD is treated sort of like they rounded up mustangs in the old days for slaughter -- run 'em down the canyon, into the pen; up the ramp into the truck and drop 'em at the slaughter house before they have a chance to think, or talk to their membership. JMO Ta, Shirlee


How in the world is this even possible???? Who brings these items to the table? Someone has to, they just don't fall out of the sky. It is not fair to the Directors or the membership to dump these items in their lap to decide on there and then w/o giving them the opportunity to consult their Area membership! It is setting up these ELECTED officials for failure in doing so. Because in voting one way or the other, the membership will be upset for not being contacted and allowing their voices to be herd (which is what is happening now).


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## Lmequine

txminipinto said:


> How in the world is this even possible???? Who brings these items to the table? Someone has to, they just don't fall out of the sky. It is not fair to the Directors or the membership to dump these items in their lap to decide on there and then w/o giving them the opportunity to consult their Area membership! It is setting up these ELECTED officials for failure in doing so. Because in voting one way or the other, the membership will be upset for not being contacted and allowing their voices to be herd (which is what is happening now).


That is exactly what happened. The BOD members got an agenda a week before the meeting and one of the topics listed was A + A = B. Who the heck was suppose to know what that meant??


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## ownedbyapony

Hi Shirlee,

In response to the following.

Also, a currently registered B Shetland will not be able to show in the Classic classes.

I have checked into this and currently registered B shetlands WILL be able to show in classic classes.

Kindest Regards,

Amber


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## Lmequine

I have checked into this and currently registered B shetlands WILL be able to show in classic classes.

Kindest Regards,

Amber

That is also what I was told by the office today that when making my show entries that are due tomorrow if I have a B papered pony that I want to show as a classic then to enter that pony as a classic. I was also told AT THIS TIME ponies will still have to be certified foundation in order to show in the foundation division. I was also told that this could change at the BOD discretion but it was the ASPC office's current understanding that to show foundation the pony still had to have a foundation seal.


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## Belinda

Ok,

First let me say once again as several have already stated..



[SIZE=12pt]"THE FOUNDATION REMAINS THE SAME , YOU STILL MUST MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS SET FORTH IN OUR RULE BOOK PERTAINING TO SHOWING OR REGISTRING YOUR FOUNDATION PONY"[/SIZE] We were very adamant about that !!! The office has told me the A & B 's will still be on the pedigrees in the computer.. So I assume You will be able to see them on the Stud Book also.. ? You will be able to Foundation Certified your ponies, today , tomorrow, next year and years after that *,[SIZE=10pt] NOTHING has Changed with the Foundation !! [/SIZE] * I have spoke to several of you on the phone , as I much prefer that then going into long discussions on these forums..





I would also like to say regardless of what has been said and what a few of you believe and I will never convince you otherwise , this was not a sneak attack , behind the back or whatever else you want to think , I myself just received my agenda on Mon... This issue was NOT taken lightly , and there was Lots of Discussion , Lots of input, lots of what ifs, and what to do if 's and so on.. Personally I left there feeling like I am a Janitor sent to clean up all my Fore Fathers Garbage !!









No Disrespect Intended to anyone...





You vote your Directors in to look out for and represent your best interest.. And I truly believe that Your Board has the Best Interest of OUR Assoc.. in their Heart..

Remember your board Members are also owners , breeders , trainers, Judges, stewards, show managers etc.. So all aspects of OUR Assoc. is represented in Your Board Members.. Our Board Meetings are open to any of the members and actually there were members there that sat in on most all of the board meetings.. The Only time we go into Closed Session is when we discuss Salary' s of the office staff , or when there is a a Personal issue involving a member .

We sat in the Board room Sat. from 8:30 A.M. until well after 10 PM.. And back there Sun. Morning until Sunday after noon,, And believe me it is NOT a Cake walk..

I can not speak for anyone other than myself , but I can tell you I truly think very hard about things before I vote and I think with the Good of the Members and the Assoc as a whole in MIND !

I can only say that someday those that accuse and point fingers at all the Board Members as being self serving and Sneaks, and what ever else I have read on the Internet the last 24 hours , someday have the chance to sit a term on the Board.






And when you do let me know how you feel after Donating your time and energy for your Assoc.. and you come home and read the Bashing without the COMPLETE FACTS.. Anyone in my area or even if you are not in my area are welcome to call me and I will try my hardest to explain my take on this subject.. And how it came to be..

Thanks for listening !


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## strass

Belinda,

I haven’t posted on here in months, but this one brought me out of the word-work long enough for one post.

Being on the Board is not an easy job. It’s not something that a new person should be doing and it’s certainly not for a weak or easily influenced person to do. Decisions like this are always tough to make. While I do not personally agree with this one, I do respect the Board and know that all the members took this topic seriously and did what they felt was truly best for the organization as a whole. You can’t make everyone happy all the time. In the horse world, you can’t make everyone happy at the same time even once.

At least the Foundation program is still intact. The integrity of the Foundation Seal must be protected. The membership agreed to this at Convention and the Board seems to have remembered that. It just seems that it might be a bit more challenging for us to verify that we are getting closer to obtaining that seal.

In short, you’re still the “B”, I still love you, and I thank you for your willingness to serve as our Representative. There are a lot worse options out there than you.


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## Shari S

strass said:


> Belinda,
> 
> I haven’t posted on here in months, but this one brought me out of the word-work long enough for one post.
> 
> Being on the Board is not an easy job. It’s not something that a new person should be doing and it’s certainly not for a weak or easily influenced person to do. Decisions like this are always tough to make. While I do not personally agree with this one, I do respect the Board and know that all the members took this topic seriously and did what they felt was truly best for the organization as a whole. You can’t make everyone happy all the time. In the horse world, you can’t make everyone happy at the same time even once.
> 
> At least the Foundation program is still intact. The integrity of the Foundation Seal must be protected. The membership agreed to this at Convention and the Board seems to have remembered that. It just seems that it might be a bit more challenging for us to verify that we are getting closer to obtaining that seal.
> 
> In short, you’re still the “B”, I still love you, and I thank you for your willingness to serve as our Representative. There are a lot worse options out there than you.



I agree. Thank you for serving, Belinda.





Shari Seddon

Rhapsody Shetlands


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## alongman

Belinda - I do agree that much thought and effort went into this decision. I guess my only question is this. If you got YOUR agenda so soon to the meeting, how would the general public know what was being discussed and make arrangements to attend? That seems like something that we need to look into so that we can all be better informed.


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## mendocinobackofbeyond

Hi Amber: Thanks for the correction -- just when I think I have my facts straight, I manage to add more confusion to an already confused issue. Aaarrgh. Ta, Shirlee


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## ponyexpress

I would like to THANK our BOD for taking a HUGE step in the right direction for the future of our Shetlands by doing away with the letter designation...

Why is this a step in the right direction???

First... the system failed. In 1970 the club opened the registry allowing ponies out of welsh and hackney parents to be included. These foals would be recognized by the letter B on the registration number...it was a very sincere attempt to openly embrace the cross breeding that was an integral part of the Shetland industry. Cross breeding started the moment they set foot in America...these early efforts evolved into what we have today in the American classic Shetland, a lovely three way blend of Shetland Welsh and hackney. Ponies that were not the result of an outcross to hackney or welsh were given an "A" suffix.

The problem with this was, folks kept on giving A papers to hackneys and welsh ponies. They placed NO importance on pedigrees.

The problem has continued to haunt us, eating away at the credibility of our breed.

Some breeders use this bogus system as a dangerous "TOOL", in an effort to make their program some how look "better" or more "honest". To tell a brand new buyer that they can use this as a foolproof means of identifying out cross bloodlines is tragic. Doing so is indulgent and will continue to UNDERMINE the future of our breed. People who insist that its the only way we can tell what outside blood is there are either in denial or mis-informed. I refuse to tell a new buyer that you can and should use these letters.

The fact is and will always be..there is outcross blood in the American Shetland!!!! We can't tell by letters exactly WHO is WHO, and WHAT is WHAT!!!!

In regard to how using this "A letter only" has impacted the foundation division?. It, in my opinion is an abomination. IF the A/B letter system was perfect it could have been easy, but it was not. Unfortunately people have, will, and DO....put foundation seals on ANYTHING that can qualify. The present system gives us NO means by which to stop it either. I can identify more than one case of this situation taking place in breeding programs right now. There are obviously MODERN and extreme classic stallions out there who have been deliberately certified and bred to nice old fashioned foundation mares, claiming those resulting foals to be foundation certified. My question to these breeders is WHY??? What goal has you in mind?? Do you HAVE a goal or are you just covering all your bases???? I challenge each and every one of these breeders to explain why they deliberately undermine the very essence of the foundation pony they profess to "protect"???? These breeders are part of the problem, and continue to perpetuate it!...I think its a shame...do they really have the best interest of the foundation pony in mind...funny too that some of these are the ones crying the loudest about dropping these letters....and yet, they grin from ear to ear about, "yep its got a seal," knowing full well it should not really have one!!!! Just because we can doesn’t mean we should!!!!!

.Fortunately most of the supporters of the foundation pony do the RIGHT thing and try and breed true to type.... don't be afraid to show by type. It’s easy...just have a look at what is standing in front of you. It’s the real truth of the bloodline!!!!!

I would like to see our board drop the certification process by which we identify the foundation type pony. only then can we really let true type RULE in the show ring...

Showing by" type alone " will improve our breed, and lend credibility to our club. Again, let me commend our BOD.... WELL DONE!!!!

Jackie


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## Lewella

What about the breeders who take a Congress Champion Modern or Modern Pleasure pony and then turn around and show that pony as a Classic? Shouldn't they be being asked to explain themselves also? Doesn't that in and of itself undermine a system based upon judging by type?

A person can point fingers all they want but that doesn't change the fact that the BOD made a decision that effects every single breeder of American Shetland Ponies - be they Modern, Modern Pleasure, Classic, or Foundation without allowing time for those breeders to voice their thoughts on the subject.


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## ponyarab

I like showing by type but the Judges will have to be the ones to stand up and enforce this because this past weekend I saw a pony in the foundation class that should have been shown as a classic and possibly could have gone modern pleasure because this pony sure did have some lift. Well guess what this pony took a second place and a Reserve Champion and I sure am glad that the Grand Champion was a true foundation pony. I even consulted with another person who happens to be a Judge and they agreed with me that the pony was definately not Foundation type.

There were other ponies in the class that were also foundation and should have placed above the 2nd place mare so the Judges better step up to the plate and tell these people they are in the WRONG class or IMO you might as well keep your true Foundation ponies at home. But wait I guess we can make another class for them just like they did in the drivng with the new Western Pleasure class.


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