# Check out the color on this horse!



## Camelotcavs (Sep 10, 2010)

Unique Markings


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## uwharrie (Sep 10, 2010)

WOW!


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## AppyLover2 (Sep 10, 2010)

WOW is right. She's beautiful.


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## Watcheye (Sep 10, 2010)

That is so darn cool!


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## LAminiatures (Sep 10, 2010)

That is very cool. What pretty markings.


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## Sue_C. (Sep 10, 2010)

I love her "star-spangled" head especially.


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## Margo_C-T (Sep 10, 2010)

WOW! is right! Truly 'one-in-a-million' markings, for sure. Thanks for sharing the link!

Wonder if she was tested for overo, also? I don't know diddly about appy genetics, but have long suspected that there is *sometimes* some sort of a 'tie-in' between overo and/or sabino and/or splash and (at least some) appy patterning. I remember Maddon's Bright Eyes, a QH, though she had some 'paint' markings that everyone apparently pretended she DIDN'T...and her sibling or half-sibling,Bright Eyes' Brother, a definite Appy--as only one example.

Margo


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## Mominis (Sep 11, 2010)

Cool markings. Guess I've never really been in the loop with the Appy hroses, but I had no idea they had such pretty heads.


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## disneyhorse (Sep 11, 2010)

The skeptical side of me does not believe there is no way this horse has some sort of pinto genetics going on.

Andrea


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## Mona (Sep 12, 2010)

disneyhorse said:


> The skeptical side of me does not believe there is no way this horse has some sort of pinto genetics going on.
> 
> Andrea






I'm with you on that one, Andrea!



Beautiful filly though, regardless!!


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## Reble (Sep 12, 2010)

That is something, never know what nature is going to do...


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## AppyLover2 (Sep 12, 2010)

Don't know if it's still a rule or not but when I was showing ApHA they wouldn't register a horse that was an appaloosa/pinto (or paint) cross. That was a big no no a few years ago.


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## Sue_C. (Sep 12, 2010)

> Don't know if it's still a rule or not but when I was showing ApHA they wouldn't register a horse that was an appaloosa/pinto (or paint) cross. That was a big no no a few years ago.


Nope, they still won't..and certainly shouldn't. THIS filly is 100% registered Appaloosa, both parents are registered Appaloosas...and she has been genetically tested to have no pinto/paint.


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## Shari (Sep 12, 2010)

She is a stunner for sure!


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## Mona (Sep 12, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> Nope, they still won't..and certainly shouldn't. THIS filly is 100% registered Appaloosa, both parents are registered Appaloosas...and she has been genetically tested to have no pinto/paint.



But I still wonder a couple of things...are Appaloosas DNA/parentage qualified?? And secondly, I understood it to read that she had been tested for tobiano. nothing was said about being tested for LWO, or Sabino1, and she may also carry other forms of pinto where testing is not yet available, such as other sabino types/patterns and splashed white. I highly suspect splash and/or sabino in there.


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## Sue_C. (Sep 12, 2010)

> But I still wonder a couple of things...are Appaloosas DNA/parentage qualified??


Only the "solids" or uncertain ones are, but it can be done if there is any question. The only way she could have any form of pinto/paint patern would be that bit expressed by a blaze or sock, as in any other "solid" breeds; and as I have never heard of a pinto cropping up in a registered Appaloosa before, and the breed is _very_ strict on having no pinto/paint patterns. Wayyyy back in the "old days", I don't think they even accepted blue eyes...and back when I was raising them, blue eyes, though accepted, were very poorly appreciated, and much frowned upon. When registering a foal, you have to send pictures, and they have to show every bit of colour...feet, head, even under tails and udder areas to show colour. I cannot see that a "pinto/paint" coloured horse would have been "oopsed" into the registry in the past.

I do doubt she carries any more than any other solid horse. That would be like having to test every horse in every registry that has any facial and leg white, stating they are in fact, paints/pintos. Some are, yes, but generally they have a paint/pinto background.

I have seen registered Appaloosas before with some very odd patterns. This filly is more uncommon than most, but not totally unheard of.


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## Seashells (Sep 12, 2010)

EYE CANDY!


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## Mona (Sep 12, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> Only the "solids" or uncertain ones are, but it can be done if there is any question. The only way she could have any form of pinto/paint patern would be that bit expressed by a blaze or sock, as in any other "solid" breeds; and as I have never heard of a pinto cropping up in a registered Appaloosa before, and the breed is _very_ strict on having no pinto/paint patterns. Wayyyy back in the "old days", I don't think they even accepted blue eyes...and back when I was raising them, blue eyes, though accepted, were very poorly appreciated, and much frowned upon. When registering a foal, you have to send pictures, and they have to show every bit of colour...feet, head, even under tails and udder areas to show colour. I cannot see that a "pinto/paint" coloured horse would have been "oopsed" into the registry in the past.
> 
> I do doubt she carries any more than any other solid horse. That would be like having to test every horse in every registry that has any facial and leg white, stating they are in fact, paints/pintos. Some are, yes, but generally they have a paint/pinto background.
> 
> I have seen registered Appaloosas before with some very odd patterns. This filly is more uncommon than most, but not totally unheard of.


OK, well this is where I would find it easy to get pinto into the mix then, if they only question when something looks out of place. I think would be easier than you think to get an "oops" allowed in if going only by photos. A pintaloosa that is maximum white from pinto, could easly hide and pass as a leopard appy, because the spots would all be within the white areas, and on a maximum expressed pinto, that would be basically the entire body, so could look just like a normal leopard. Same could hold true for a a minimally expressed pinto patterned pintaloosa. That same horse could be mostly solid colored, with socks maybe, or even an odd blaze, or speck of blue in an eye, and yet thry could be carrying pinto that could reproduce something more wildly patterned, such as this filly.

When I look at this filly, I see leopard pintaloosa. The solid color would be like the color on a pinto, and white with spots looks to be the leopard appaloosa pattern in the white area of a pinto. That would explain why the spots on every part of the white areas including the face. I just cannot accept that there is not pinto in there from somewhere, even if it managed to stay hidden for a genration or two. I am not saying without a doubt there IS pinto in there, I am just saying with what I personally see when I look at that pattern, is that that'swhat "I" see.

Yes, I am playing devil's advocate here, but that is because I have the tendancy to question many things, and not believe everything I am told, or in some cases, everything I see.


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## Sue_C. (Sep 13, 2010)

Well, put it this way...were there any pinto/paint a generation or two back...the breeder would be in a bit of "ahem", let's just say..."KaKa". No Appaloosa breeder, ever, in their right MIND would WANT to breed that pattern into their program for one thing...and I am pretty sure if they were caught...(which is 100% likely) they wouldn't have to worry about being an Appaloosa breeder any longer, and would certainly lose any reputation they had. There is the Pinto registry, which is where the pintaloosa "breeder" would be registering their foals...not worth ruining your reputaion and breeding program by tainting the Appaloosa breed with pinto/paint horses.

Then too, there is more to the Appaloosa than pattern. There are several other characteristics to be looked for when registering an Appaloosa, so a maximum white would have to have at least two OTHER characteristics for the horse to be registered. If the characteristics are NOT there, then you need DNA testing.

I would say, you can pretty much bet your bippy, there is no other pattern being expressed here, than Appaloosa; it just wouldn't be worth a breeder's time, effort, or rep to sneak an animal in with another pattern...too easy to check up on...and really...what would be the POINT? That would be like breeding a Fresian to a spotted breed and pretending the patterned foal was pure...the Appaloosa is a BREED, not "just" a colour.


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## R3 (Sep 13, 2010)

I would lean toward the Chimera explanation, or just a really bizarre Appy pattern. It doesn't really look typical of any of the pinto patterns to me.


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## Mona (Sep 13, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> Well, put it this way...were there any pinto/paint a generation or two back...the breeder would be in a bit of "ahem", let's just say..."KaKa". No Appaloosa breeder, ever, in their right MIND would WANT to breed that pattern into their program for one thing...and I am pretty sure if they were caught...(which is 100% likely) they wouldn't have to worry about being an Appaloosa breeder any longer, and would certainly lose any reputation they had. There is the Pinto registry, which is where the pintaloosa "breeder" would be registering their foals...not worth ruining your reputaion and breeding program by tainting the Appaloosa breed with pinto/paint horses.
> 
> Then too, there is more to the Appaloosa than pattern. There are several other characteristics to be looked for when registering an Appaloosa, so a maximum white would have to have at least two OTHER characteristics for the horse to be registered. If the characteristics are NOT there, then you need DNA testing.
> 
> I would say, you can pretty much bet your bippy, there is no other pattern being expressed here, than Appaloosa; it just wouldn't be worth a breeder's time, effort, or rep to sneak an animal in with another pattern...too easy to check up on...and really...what would be the POINT? That would be like breeding a Fresian to a spotted breed and pretending the patterned foal was pure...the Appaloosa is a BREED, not "just" a colour.


Sue, IF there was pinto in there,(which maybe/probably there's not) I am NOT saying it was intentional, but as we breeders are well aware, "accidents" can happen, and have been known to happen, even without the breeder's knowledge, until the foal is born the following year, and for some reason, the breeder sees it is impossible for that color foal to come from those parents. With a maximum white pinto/appaloosa foal, the foal can EASILY appear to be 100% apaloosa, show scelera, mottling and a leopard pattern, and go totally unnoticed. I do not mean to incinuate that *if* this did or were happen, that it was done purposefully.


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## susanne (Sep 14, 2010)

Even if this filly is 100% Appaloosa with absolutely no pinto genetics, will she be accepted as an Appaloosa? (Perhaps this article ((or others)) adress this, I should read further.)

Is it the pinto/Paint blood that is taboo, or the pattern itself? If it is simply the pattern that is abhorred, then it seems she would be shunned for both show and breeding purposes. This IS a pintaloosa pattern in appearance, no matter the filly's breeding, and she could "corrupt" the Appy pattern through her offspring.


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## Mona (Sep 14, 2010)

Susanne, if she is 100% Appaloosa, then yes, she will remain reg'd in the Appaloosa registry. As to your other question, I believe it is just the pinto genetics that are not acceptable. I think they have to be clear of any pinto lines back so many generations. She sure is a GORGEOUS girl though!!


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## HGFarm (Sep 14, 2010)

Well I have to say in all my years of raising and being around Appies, I've never seen one marked quite like that!

I know, it stopped too hard and it's blanket slid forward! LOL

If the horse has pinto breeding, this is NOT allowed in ApHC or POA and would not be registerable as an Appy.


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## Kim~Crayonboxminiatures (Sep 14, 2010)

Wow, that really is a horse of a different color!






As to a pinto gene being involved, I've researched appy & pinto genetcis and I've had a few pintaloosa Miniatures. I do agree the location of this one's white spotted areas seem suspicious for pinto, but the fact that there is spots in the white, especially on the face and front leg is very unusual for a pintaloosa. Typically in a pintaloosa the white "pinto" areas will stay white with no spots, but the solid areas will roan/spot.

You can see here two examples of a sabino/tobiano mare crossed with a leopard or fewspot stallion, the white face markings, and the white pinto markings didn't change...


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## Gizzmoe (Sep 14, 2010)

Seeing her got me to thinking of something. Appaloosa allows or did anyways allow out cross breedings to QH or Thoroughbreds. We know now about the sabino in both of those breeds and has been debated about splash occurring in QHs too. Assuming she has some of these in her bloodlines that potentially carry say splash or sabino, it wouldn't always show to a max extent. So it is possible to have been passed for several generations unknowingly.

Now to whomever posted about MAddon's Bright Eyes, I did manage to find this picture that claims it is her with her dam. However to me the dam totally looks like a paint. So assuming this is a true pic and everything I would question about the dam being a true QH.


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## Sue_C. (Sep 15, 2010)

> Now to whomever posted about MAddon's Bright Eyes, I did manage to find this picture that claims it is her with her dam. However to me the dam totally looks like a paint. So assuming this is a true pic and everything I would question about the dam being a true QH.


When you think that back when the 1/4 horse was just starting out as a breed, any hortse that could run that 1/4 mile could be registered, and there were feilds of broodmares of all shapes and sizes. Then too, if you read discriptions of some of the founding sires of the breed...there was colour there.

As for this mare pictured not being a true quarterhorse, by all means she would have been back then.( and could be again, even now) Then, for quite awhile there was not colour allowed in breeding stock above the knees/hocks, or body patches, but just a few years ago, that was legally fought and over-turned. Now a Paint and be a Quarterhorse, and a Quarterhorse a Paint, although I beleive one parent has to be a Paint now...they are trying to develop Paints as a breed on their own. Actually the Paint breed itself owes its very existance to the 1/4 horse, as it was started to give the crop-outs a place to go and not lose their liniage.

Speaking of crop-outs, there are several registered Appaloosas from way back which had TWO registered 1/4 parents. I beleive Whapiti was?? I would say that Bright Eyes dam, was likely more apt to be carrying the appy gene than the pinto/paint, as she is in a lot of Appaloosa pedigrees, and Bright Eyes did throw appy colour.

Edited to add...I did just look at Plaudette's pedigree, and she was an Appaloosa, not a 1/4 horse. Plaudette

Another strange thing...here is a pedigree with Bright Eyes and Plaudette in it, showing Plaudette as an Appaloosa, yet her son, Bright Eyes, was registered as a quarterhorse. No wonder they got crop-outs...good grief. Mighty Bright

I do Beleive Mighty Bright had colour too.


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## HGFarm (Sep 15, 2010)

Joker B was also registered as a QH.... til he colored out as a varnish roan with spots all over- his dam was a 'roan' QH- and guess who was really an APPY!!

Have you ever seen pics of Old Fred and some of the other old QH's?!!! They were definitely pintos!!!!!!!!

My X father in law was around when the registry first started and told me that they just picked horses that met the criteria- size, build, etc.... so maybe some of those were from two pinto parents, or were borderline pinto themselves?


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## Sun Runner Stables (Sep 16, 2010)

Very pretty filly!

Wouldn't be hard to look at for sure in the pasture!


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## Sue_C. (Sep 18, 2010)

> Joker B was also registered as a QH.... til he colored out as a varnish roan with spots all over- his dam was a 'roan' QH- and guess who was really an APPY!!


Ys, and Janus is discribed with colour, as is his son Bloody Buttocks". Coke Roberts horses are mentioned in many 1/4 peds, and MANY of his mares are known Appy carriers; of course, he is not the only one.


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