# SUPER fat stallion (pics added pg. 3)



## MindyLee (Dec 24, 2010)

*Ok here's what I have been dealing with for 3 yrs in a row now...*

* *

*1st of all, I have had 2 different vets opinions on this and both are stumped and now are only guessing, otherwise suggesting to take him to MSU in Lansing.*

*Blood tests done: all ok,*

*poo tests done : clean*

*has gut sound*

*eating drinking peeing and pooing normally*

* *

*He is 30.5 inchs tall and super super fat. In the fall each yr he blows up and gets super fat and his belly feels like a water bed. The only thing that I can only guess on is that he eats the leaves that fall from the tree's and some how effects him that way. Well the last 2 yrs, once the snow hits he goes back to his normal chubby body weight. But this yr he seems to still be super fat. His diet is 1 cup of Stratagy every morning and 1.5-2 flakes of 2nd cutting grass/timothy hay twice a day. My vet said he looks like a mare that's about to give birth to twins LOL and even had him mistaken for a prego mare once by the other vet. I figured that now its cold and snowy and he has'nt lost this weight yet, I would ask here to see if anyone could give me any ideals on what they think could be causing him to be so fat. Otherwise he's totally healthy and acting normal and being his study self just super fat. This is not like over weight fat either, only in his belly area. *

* *

*Thanks and if want to see how fat he is, email for pic as I cant post them.*

* *


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## ohmt (Dec 24, 2010)

Sounds like he needs a lot more protein, if he's only fat in the belly area. The minis seem to need more protein than big horses which throws vets off-how tall and what's his weight?


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## ohmt (Dec 24, 2010)

Ha, saw that you already answered my questions in your original post, I apologize! I would increase his strategy...build up to giving him a cup at night too. See what kind of changes you see and go from there. Is the hay pretty good quality? Could you post a picture? Sometimes that helps!


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## MindyLee (Dec 24, 2010)

ohmt said:


> Sounds like he needs a lot more protein, if he's only fat in the belly area. The minis seem to need more protein than big horses which throws vets off-how tall and what's his weight?


*30.5" about 300lbs* _(he's a draft type mini)_

_ _

*I have done protien buckets in the past but he has'nt had one in a while. *

*I get the 24% ones... I'll get him one on Sunday when TSC opens. Thanks!*

* *

*Also he has 2 different types of salt blocks too.*

*a trace mineral with selenium and a natural salt lick* _(looks like a rock)_* for horses.*

*His hay is really nice looking and a nice deep green color. It's orchard grass/timothy mix with small amount of alfalfa.*


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## shorthorsemom (Dec 24, 2010)

I was given a draft type mini this fall. He looked huge in the belly but was actually light over the topline. As advised by the forum members I increased his protein and he has been steadily losing belly ever since. he is also on an exercise program as he drives as well..

I use 30% triple crown supplement. good luck. All belly may not be fat.

Adair


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## HGFarm (Dec 24, 2010)

You said blood work was done... for what? Did they check his thyroid? Was he checked for being insulin resistant?

I too agree that he needs more protein on a regular basis, but if he is grossly obese, this is not the only problem.

I would find out what kind of blood tests they did..... and the previous post was right, not enough protein will make a big fat hay belly, but fat all over sounds like possible thyroid or insulin problem.


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## MindyLee (Dec 24, 2010)

*Thanks for the replys! **OOPS! He's not fat all over just his belly. *

* *

*If I remember correctly, he was checked for his thyroid, suger levels, how his internals where working properly, if he was anemic, and the vet joked if he was prego (lol) and some thing else but cant remember. I do remember the bill was huge. Then the 2nd vet checked his poo and also checked for the same few things. That bill to was pretty huge. Everything came back ok with both vets. Thats when it was suggested to take him to state. But I cant afford that bill. He's doing just fine except that fat belly and with it 3 yrs in a row, Im going to give it a go with the protien bucket as that just might be it* _(i hope)_




* and up his grain to x2 a day also.*

Could someone help me post a pic???


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 25, 2010)

You can send me the pictures and I will put them up, and run you through posting them if you want?


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## goatkisses (Dec 25, 2010)

Sounds like you are going about finding the problem in all the right ways.

My 34" gelding had a similar belly and I found it was from him scarfing up ANYTHING he could nibble on in the paddock and pasture area. He was eating coltsfoot weeds, and other weeds that not even the goats were eating.

In his case, changing my hay supplier worked a treat. It's not that he's eating any more - in fact - he's probably eating less bulk - but it's quality hay.

I do agree with the other posters to clarify with the vet as to what was tested during the blood tests.

Good luck.


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## supaspot (Dec 25, 2010)

I see you use second cut hay , Ive always been told the first cut has more goodness to it , if he looks worse in the winter I would also suggest its lack of protein


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## HGFarm (Dec 25, 2010)

I agree, sounds like you've had the right things done then and GOOD that all appears normal.

I feed alfalfa hay and have never had a problem with no meat on the topline and fat bellies. Their weight stays evenly distributed. The myths of alfalfa being 'too hot' is just that- a myth. Spring pasture grass has WAY more proteins and sugars than alfalfa does. I keep two or three different kinds of salt out also so they can take what kind they want/need.

Sounds like you are on the right path and will find the right combo for your little guy.


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## ruffian (Dec 25, 2010)

Hmm - 4 leaves of hay per day? Is that full leaves? Is he cleaning it all up? Might be just too much hay. My guys only get 1 leaf twice a day. Just a thought. Sounds like you are getting lots of great advice!


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## Marty (Dec 25, 2010)

Some of mine blow up in the late fall. I contribute it to them grabbing the leaves that fall off the trees and that dang stupid NUTS that could kill them..... those lousy acorns that they sneak into their system before I realized it and get out there and put the temporary fence up to keep them out of that area. I go through this every stinking fall. Now, the ones that got into the leaves and nuts are pretty much back to where they need to be but man oh man you should have seen them blow up, very scary.


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## MindyLee (Dec 25, 2010)

Hay Dana, yep 2 flakes a day only cause their super tiny flakes which make up a normal size flake. Guess I should have stated that. I did notice that he is cutting through the snow and eating old leaves and wondering if that's why he's still fat. I dont recall him doing that in the past. Normally when it snows he hangs out on one side of his pasture only. But this yr he's hanging on the back side where all the trees line his pasture. So Im also going to switch pastures with him and my other stud Sentra cause Sentra dont eat leaves and also Sentra's pasture dont have leaves in it.

Thanks everyone!!!


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## [email protected] (Dec 25, 2010)

Could you post a pic of your stallion?

Sometimes it's just his conformation. My first stallion was very drafty in build and always had a belly. It was his conformation more than anything. He was fat, but even fit he just had a belly, his son (one of our pet geldings is the same way).

Sugar Creek Houdini in 2000






His son Ray


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## disneyhorse (Dec 25, 2010)

ruffian said:


> Hmm - 4 leaves of hay per day? Is that full leaves? Is he cleaning it all up? Might be just too much hay. My guys only get 1 leaf twice a day. Just a thought. Sounds like you are getting lots of great advice!


Actually weighing the feed (both concentrates and hay) is usually the best way to go when trying to control a horse's diet. "Leaves" or "flakes" of hay are particularly difficult to judge because the bales differ so greatly. And our bales here are 100+ pound three-strand bales, so a "flake" of hay weighs about seven pounds... the average full size horse eats two to three of them daily.

I have a scale that I use regularly to weigh food... I am pretty darn accurate to the pound when weighing flakes of hay! Just be sure to never cut down their forage less than 1% of the horse's total body weight per day... and be sure you get an accurate weight of the actual horse, too because so many people mis-judge the weights of their horses! If you ever go to the vets or the truck scales, take advantage of the scales.

Good luck,

Andrea


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## MindyLee (Dec 26, 2010)

disneyhorse said:


> Actually weighing the feed (both concentrates and hay) is usually the best way to go when trying to control a horse's diet. "Leaves" or "flakes" of hay are particularly difficult to judge because the bales differ so greatly. And our bales here are 100+ pound three-strand bales, so a "flake" of hay weighs about seven pounds... the average full size horse eats two to three of them daily.
> 
> I have a scale that I use regularly to weigh food... I am pretty darn accurate to the pound when weighing flakes of hay! Just be sure to never cut down their forage less than 1% of the horse's total body weight per day... and be sure you get an accurate weight of the actual horse, too because so many people mis-judge the weights of their horses! If you ever go to the vets or the truck scales, take advantage of the scales.
> 
> ...


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## Minimor (Dec 26, 2010)

Just curious--what is his body condition otherwise--your topic title says he is super fat (making me picture a horse that is just plain obese, fat all over) but then you say only his belly is fat...what exactly is his topline like? Is it well rounded, very well rounded with a crease down his back, not so well rounded, maybe a little thin? With his belly being big, is that with his ribs well covered with fat, or can you feel ribs easily? Is the belly fat actually fat, as in soft/flabby or is it just a big round belly, kind of bloated and hard rather than soft with fat?

Does he clean up all his hay between feeds? if so, how quickly does he have it eaten up? Is it gone within the first hour, or is there some left until about an hour before the next feed?

Just wondering, because there is a big difference between fat and a big belly; if his feed is gone very quickly he may just have a high metabolism and needs more feed in comparison to what the others eat--mine go out and dig around in the snow for buried hay if they run out of hay (doesn't happen most days) and they get hungry, otherwise they don't bother. I would be inclined to increase his hay--or buy some other that is higher in protein so that he gets more from less--or increase his grain ration, perhaps giving him something that has high protein and higher fat.

There are some kitchen scales that are good for weighing feed. I actually have an old fishing tool here that I use--it is a hanging scale with a hook at the bottom. I just put my grain in a plastic bag & hang it on the hook. With hay I just tie the bundle up with a couple of twines & hang it on the scale--it's not as handy as a kitchen scale but it's no big chore to do it this way & it gives me an accurate weight on my feed.


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## attwoode (Dec 26, 2010)

Sounds like you might want to double check the amount of food he is getting. He's not very tall and may be getting more calories than he needs.


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## HGFarm (Dec 27, 2010)

Minimor has some good questions and it is hard to give advice when we can't see what he looks like. Also, some of his belly may be just winter hair.

If it is due to lack of protein, cutting his feed back will certainly not do him any good. Maybe he is eating leaves from the trees because he is not getting enough of what he needs and is looking for it somewhere?


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## MindyLee (Dec 27, 2010)

Sorry but I cant post pics of him! I sent one out to someone to post for me but it has never been posted.

As far as him not getting enought to eat and that's why he's eating leaves if false. He just eats leaves no matter what. He watches them to fall from the trees so he can nab them up. His weight when it comes to his normal look is NORMAL, just a super fat bloated belly. He has a good top line and has no fat rolls on his body anywhere. just that he looks prego. He's a drafty style mini, but now looks like a prego drafty style mini.






If someone can help post pics, I have sone of him just before the snow hit of what he looks like normal and with the fat belly.

[email protected]

thanks guys


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## HGFarm (Dec 27, 2010)

Please email me the pics and I can post them for you this evening.... [email protected]


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## MindyLee (Dec 27, 2010)

HGFarm said:


> Please email me the pics and I can post them for you this evening.... [email protected]


*Sent some pics to Happy Appy and just sent you 4 pics I just took about 5 mins ago. Hope everyone can see how fat he is with the angles and through his winter woolies. *

*I know its so hard to picture what Im disribing without a visual *





* *

*Thanks for all the help everyone.*


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## happy appy (Dec 27, 2010)

Here are the 2 pictures that I received.


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## Ashley (Dec 27, 2010)

He is more on the stocky side so isnt going to be real trim looking. However I would say he is probably getting more than he needs as he isnt just fat in the belly but is also fat in the neck. He is a bit hollow in the hips, if it were me I would cut back on hay and have a higher protein grain.


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## HGFarm (Dec 27, 2010)

Ok, am posting the pics I got here too.....


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 28, 2010)

OK, treading softly as this is a very sensitive issue, BUT...I think your boy has dwarf issues, and I think that is probably why he has a big gut.

He does not look fat to me....


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## Little Wolf Ranch (Dec 28, 2010)

I agree that he does NOT look fat - a bit cresty in the neck but he also seems to have a head that's too big for his body. . .although it could be the camera angle.


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## MindyLee (Dec 28, 2010)

No way is he dwarfy looking!



( not sensitive lol) if you look at his pro shots I have of him taken in 2009, he looks really good. He's just really fat this time of the yr for the last 3 yrs now. By time spring hits, he is actually under weight from heavy pacing and I put him on weight gainers and up his feed x3 per day. I do agree he is heavy boned and has a little bit of a bigger head.


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## Sandee (Dec 28, 2010)

In the clipped picture of him his head doesn't look much out of porportion to me. He does look overweight all over. The suggestions about giving him better quality food is good, however, I lean towards you are over feeding him period. It is as difficult for a horse to diet as it is for a person. You need to look on the forum for the thread that talks about how to determine their body weight (it's a math formula done with measuring their body) then determine how much he should weigh and feed only 1 1/2 to 2 % of that number to get him reduced. Be careful in the winter time that you don't reduce him too fast or too much as it does take more calories to stay warm in winter.

For instance my stallion is almost 32" and weighs around 225-250 ( a little on the heavy side for showing). He gets 1/2 lb of beet pulp plus 2 1/2 lb hay (yes, I weigh everything) plus supplements all spread out in three feedings a day and some pasture turnout. When to temps drop into the single digits here, I add another 1/2 lb in a fourth nighttime feeding.


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## ohmt (Dec 28, 2010)

Definitely not dwarfy.

Now that that's out of the way, I have a gelding that is a twin to your boy conformation wise. His sire and him have been the worst as far as trying to figure out a good feeding program. They require a lot more protein than my other mature horses. It looks like your boy is a bit cresty in that first picture which means he's a bit fat all over. In the second pic he looks like he's at a good body condition, just needs more protein. That's how my gelding used to look, only with a bigger belly (yes, he did look preggers). I feed good plain hay (no alfalfa) and then he gets omelene 300 morning and night. I started with the recommended amount but had to add a little bit more. I also give a cup of beet pulp morning and night. I don't know if your boy would do well on the 300 if he's cresty. I'd give him a protein supplement. I give a 30% protein supplement to some of my stallions that need a little extra but are easy keepers. I bet if you tried that and gave him some beet pulp you'd see a good change


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## ForeverFarma (Dec 28, 2010)

HAs he been tested for Insulin resistance? He has abnormal fat pockets all over, and cresty, which would make me think he is. That's not something the vet can just draw blood and say he is or isn't- it's a rather drawn out test.


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## Marty (Dec 29, 2010)

I just think he is the old style drafty type miniature. He's got little short legs, a big ole crest on him, a lot of hair, out of shape, its winter and so he's fat.


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## MindyLee (Dec 29, 2010)

Thank you everyone!!!

Maybe Im just a worry wart LOL I just know that he's such a good looking and in-shape skinnier boy in the summer and turns sooo fat in the winter. I can see him getting fatter just thinking about food so I just want to make sure he dos'nt kill over from a heart attack cause he is too fat. When I 1st got him in 2004, he was so over weight at almost 5 yrs old that he was having a hard time breathing and I surely dont want to over feed him and kill him myself. He is my 1st mini and the love of my life (even before my hubby, but dont tell him



) And want to make sure he lives a long and healthy life with me for may yrs to come.

I can say that since I have changed hay guys, I've noticed having to adjust all my horses feed intake as this hay dont seem to be as good as my old guys even tho it looks pretty close. So I will be changing back and hopefully get things back to the way they where. And not to mention, Bob here is defently harder to get a good balance when it comes to finding just the right program for him.

Also Thanks for the tip on the myth on alfalfa hay about being so hot. Maybe I will try adding some alfalfa pellets to everyones feed since its safer then I assumed.

Thanks again everyone!!! you are so helpful and love this fourm for info!!!


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## Carolyn R (Dec 29, 2010)

MindyLee, I don't think your boy is "overly" huge. Yes, he has his winter jammies on and yes, he has his winter weight on , like many outdoor mammals.

I always keep in mind, how much is fluff, how much is chubby, and how much does he run come spring and summer.

You said he was a stallion, and I know my boy does his share of pacing come (spring) summer, so as long as he is not obese, just chunky, I don't get too worked up about it. Remember, roughage is important to keep their digestive track moving/keep them producing body heat in the cold months. Yes, protien helps with those saggy bellies, mine get a ration balancer (for those that need more I add other calorie sources, this time of year they all get a bit more) and generous serving of hay 3 times a day (more like a free choice slow feeder with the hay, they can't pick through it, but eat what they take at a slow pace).

My boys look pretty chunky right now,very simalr to your guy, but this is one of them in late summer, my Buckeroo son, and I don't think he looks all too bad considering he is straight out of the turnout.....


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## Eagle (Dec 30, 2010)

Hi, I have only had minis for 4 years so I am not experienced but I just wanted to mention the problems I had with my stallion this autumn. He had a huge belly so I cut back on the grass and he became lazy and depressed, I called the vet and we tested for nearly everything. He looked really awful. Then his neck flopped over and he had what seemed like water in his belly as it was big and squashy. The vet said to change his diet as he seemed intolerant to grain. He now has grass pellets and sugar beet with a small cup of sunflower oil and a vitamin supplement called Excell E http://www.equistro....ge/ExcellE.html He also gets hay 3 times a day or more or less as he wants it. He is doing much better now and he looks better too.

This is him in the fall





Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Tomorrow I will take a resent photo


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## mad for mini's (Dec 30, 2010)

Hi Mindy,

I'm another vote for trying alfalfa





I started adding soaked alfalfa cubes to my mini's feed and all the "hay bellies" disappeared within a week or so. I'm not adding alot, I bought one of the 50lb bags from TSC and it lasted me two months, feeding four mini's and one goat. I tried uping their chow but had a couple that were getting cresty necks on higher amounts and it did nothing for the bloated bellies. Those two are not affected that way by the added alfalfa, the belly is gone with no weight gain. I'm very happy with the way they look now and they are loving their warm alfalfa mash


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## MyBarakah (Dec 31, 2010)

To me he has no topline and is all belly... but too, hair can be quite decieving. When's the last time he's had his teeth done? Also... feeding grass hay makes them loose topline and gives them that grass belly.... I think changing his diet would make a difference. And yes... I would take him off the grass and put him on alfalfa... and some soaked shreeded beet pulp.


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