# Ohio State Fair (OSF)



## alphahorses (Jun 18, 2010)

Can someone please explain to me why premiums are so much higher for Moderns and ASPRs than they are for Classics and Foundations? They are anywhere from 2x to 5x higher for Moderns and ASPR






If you look at All-Star results each year, you'll see that substantially more Classics and Foundations compete across the organization each year than Moderns and specially ASPRs. So why the special treatment at OSF?



Why are they not at least treated equally? (If you want to be really fair, put everything in one big jackpot and split it based on overall competition!)

The OSF website went down before I could pull up AMHR and do a comparison.


----------



## LostInOz (Jun 18, 2010)

My guess would be the payback is much bigger in the classes for ASPR and MOdern


----------



## alphahorses (Jun 18, 2010)

LostInOz said:


> My guess would be the payback is much bigger in the classes for ASPR and MOdern


Yes, that was my point. I was asking why.


----------



## muffntuf (Jun 19, 2010)

It depends on which classes you are referring to. Stakes classes are always higher. Do you have the link to the premium list? The one I had did not have entry fees except AMHR.


----------



## Minimor (Jun 20, 2010)

alphahorses--you're meaning the paybacks are higher for the Moderns? I took your initial post as meaning the entry fees were higher, and I think that's what everyone else thought you meant too.

I don't know the reason why Modern paybacks are more--I would be just guessing so won't say--my guess is likely wrong.


----------



## muffntuf (Jun 20, 2010)

I know on the ASPR end the ASPR committee made the decision to fund so much for OSF paybacks. They are almost fully funded for paybacks at Congress as well. I can't speak for the Modern Committee. That might be why the paybacks are higher.


----------



## Leeana (Jun 20, 2010)

I wonder if it has to do with the fact that there is a bit more to handling/prepping and presenting a modern? I believe the driving classes have higher premiums too...i'm not sure but ??


----------



## Crabtree Farm (Jun 20, 2010)

Leeana said:


> I wonder if it has to do with the fact that there is a bit more to handling/prepping and presenting a modern? I believe the driving classes have higher premiums too...i'm not sure but ??


I don't believe that to be true. But the Hackney Association is offering incentive monies for any ASPR that holds hackney papers and wins the stakes classes.


----------



## alphahorses (Jun 22, 2010)

yes, sorry - I was talking about the prize money. Entry fees seem pretty consistant, but some Modern and ASPR classes pay out as much as $500 and $300 for stake classes. It's a jackpot for Classic and Foundation. Entry fees at OSF are pretty low (can't complain about that!) so there would have to be 25 ponies in Classic or Foundation driving to come close to the Modern payout.



muffntuf said:


> I know on the ASPR end the ASPR committee made the decision to fund so much for OSF paybacks. They are almost fully funded for paybacks at Congress as well. I can't speak for the Modern Committee. That might be why the paybacks are higher.


That could explain where some of the money came from for ASPR anyway. If independent groups, like the Hackney association, are sponsoring the prize money, I can't complain about that... more power to them. But if the State of Ohio is paying for it - or if any of our membership money is going towards it - it needs to be more fairly distributed.


----------



## muffntuf (Jun 24, 2010)

alphahorses said:


> yes, sorry - I was talking about the prize money. Entry fees seem pretty consistant, but some Modern and ASPR classes pay out as much as $500 and $300 for stake classes. It's a jackpot for Classic and Foundation. Entry fees at OSF are pretty low (can't complain about that!) so there would have to be 25 ponies in Classic or Foundation driving to come close to the Modern payout.
> 
> That could explain where some of the money came from for ASPR anyway. If independent groups, like the Hackney association, are sponsoring the prize money, I can't complain about that... more power to them. But if the State of Ohio is paying for it - or if any of our membership money is going towards it - it needs to be more fairly distributed.


Ronalee - I know the ASPR committee all the monies are privately sponsored by farms.


----------



## SweetOpal (Jun 28, 2010)

muffntuf said:


> Ronalee - I know the ASPR committee all the monies are privately sponsored by farms.



The ASPR collects sponsorships and offers higher incentives for thier classes. They have 2 differnt funds this year one for Congress and one for OHS. The money is funded by individuals such as myself. You can designate which show you want to sponsor. Chuck McCalister is in charge of the funds for OHS and Mary Wahl is the co-chair and in charge of the funds for Congress. The more donations the higher the payout.

As for the moderns I would guess it is becuase of ancient history. The show was once the Modern Congress, Classic and foundations were added later and don't offer a full class list.


----------



## alphahorses (Jun 30, 2010)

SweetOpal said:


> As for the moderns I would guess it is becuase of ancient history. The show was once the Modern Congress, Classic and foundations were added later and don't offer a full class list.


I talked to a few people involved in OSF this weekend, and yes, that does seem to be the reason. Moderns have a long history at OSF, where as Classics, Foundations, and Minis do not.


----------



## Sue_C. (Jul 6, 2010)

> But the Hackney Association is offering incentive monies for any ASPR that holds hackney papers and wins the stakes classes.


HOW can a pony be both, when both registries are "closed" registries...or can you have a 1/2 Hackney? CAN you have a full Hackney parent and still be a registered Shetland?





If this is so, where does all this "Shetland pony being a purebred BREED" come from?


----------



## muffntuf (Jul 6, 2010)

ASPR is actually a division within the American Shetland Pony Registry. The pony can be 100% hackney, or a hackney/shetland cross or a 100% Hackney. So yes the Shetland ASPC divisions of Foundation, Classic, Modern Pleasure and Moderns are 100% Shetlands.

AHHS is offering the winnings to an ASPR pony that is a 100% registered Hackney pony. Thus keeping inline with both registry rules.


----------



## ~Lisa~ (Jul 10, 2010)

muffntuf said:


> ASPR is actually a division within the American Shetland Pony Registry. The pony can be 100% hackney, or a hackney/shetland cross or a 100% Hackney. So yes the Shetland ASPC divisions of Foundation, Classic, Modern Pleasure and Moderns are 100% Shetlands.
> 
> AHHS is offering the winnings to an ASPR pony that is a 100% registered Hackney pony. Thus keeping inline with both registry rules.


Actually the way I understand it with the new rules at least what "I" heard at Convention.. an ASPR pony does not have to be Hackney at all. Yes it was what the division was intened for but now any ASPC horse can be in the ASPR divison. While in Areas with other ASPR ponies it should remain the same in those areas who do not have much if any competition those with ponies to big for their divison can now show ASPR


----------



## muffntuf (Jul 11, 2010)

Lisa you are correct, the last piece of that I said 100% Hackney, which is redundant as I started the sentence out with that, I meant 100% Shetland. So it should have read:

he pony can be 100% hackney, or a hackney/shetland cross or a 100% _Shetland_. So yes the Shetland ASPC divisions of Foundation, Classic, Modern Pleasure and Moderns are 100% Shetlands.


----------



## Crabtree Farm (Jul 25, 2010)

muffntuf said:


> Lisa you are correct, the last piece of that I said 100% Hackney, which is redundant as I started the sentence out with that, I meant 100% Shetland. So it should have read:
> 
> he pony can be 100% hackney, or a hackney/shetland cross or a 100% _Shetland_. So yes the Shetland ASPC divisions of Foundation, Classic, Modern Pleasure and Moderns are 100% Shetlands.


Not all ASPC ponies are pure shetlands if you look at breeding, but yes if you only look at papers.

I have a mare whose sire is Center Fold's Last Chapter AHHS 12,325 and ASPC 12325H. And she is ASPC registered. But again she was born 1993. She is still considered a registered shetland, but her sire is an ASPC registered shetland, yet a full blooded hackney. I have his hackney paperwork and a local hackney show barn had him until just recently.

I know there seems to be rumors of some breeders breeding in hackney in the past, but it looks like the association allowed the registration of hackney ponies.

I also have a driving gelding who also has a hackney mother, but I do not have all the history on her. But she also has ASPC paperwork. He holds a registration as a ASPC/ASPR/NSPR.


----------



## muffntuf (Jul 25, 2010)

As in all registries before they became closed, there were a lot of funky papers put out on ponies Tina, that is perchance how yours ended up with ASPC paperwork. Its a bit harder with the photos on the reg work now, but you never know.

ASPC is a closed registry and has been for awhile.


----------



## Crabtree Farm (Jul 25, 2010)

muffntuf said:


> As in all registries before they became closed, there were a lot of funky papers put out on ponies Tina, that is perchance how yours ended up with ASPC paperwork. Its a bit harder with the photos on the reg work now, but you never know.
> 
> ASPC is a closed registry and has been for awhile.


Photos have nothing to do with it. But I will be talking with a few older breeders (Perdue and Booker) to see if they have any insight or information about the registry. Obviously it was open to hackney ponies somehow.

As for funky papers, the hackney stallion holds a legitimate set of shetland papers. Not sure how, but he does. But it does not make her any less of a shetland, just not a foundation or classic.


----------

