# Cart and harness questions



## bunni1900 (May 28, 2010)

Hello. I am new to this whole thing and I have a few questions about structure. I don't know the "correct" terms but perhaps someone can help with that too! Ok. Here goes. I recently found a sulky type cart in the dump. It is in GREAT condition so I brought it home. My father is an engineer and we own a farm. He has looked it over and says it is structurally sound. It does need new wheels and tires though. My question is about the size. Seeing as I found it and did not purchase it, I do not know if it would be too big for my mini. I have smaller wheels and could lower it to fit. Should I do this? I also don't know if the bars that go on either side of the horse are too wide. How do I tell?


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## Katiean (May 28, 2010)

Your shafts should be from 48"-54" depending the size and stride of your horse. It is not recommended to cut off the shafts to fit. You would measure from the tip of the shaft to where the traceses of the brest collar fastens to the cart. Since you said it was sulky type and you didn't add pictures I don't know if it has a single tree. You should not use bicycle wheels on the cart to replace the missing wheels. There are shops on line that can fit your cart. You just need to know the axle size and the width of the hub. Just an idea. If this cart is too big for your horse, fix it up and sell it and then buy a cart that fits. Or sometimes you can trade.


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## Ginia (May 28, 2010)

My "first" cart, and the one I still go to most often because it's lightweight, I have next to nothing invested in it, and it's just a well-balanced easy on the horse vehicle, was an old Sears pipe pony cart. I'm sure you can't shorten the shafts if yours is for a full-sized horse, but my husband cut the pipe shafts on this one down to 50 inches and used a pipe bender to curve the new ends like the original was. The shafts are a bit wider in the back than standard for minis, but that has never been a problem. I also did a "no-no" and put new aluminum bike wheels on it, because the way it was made it didn't have an actual axle, but rather the little "forks" that slip down over the wheel hub. I know the wheels probably wouldn't hold up under CD Marathon-type driving,but for simple trail driving and up and down the road they have served me without a problem for (I think) 8 years now. It isn't a sulky, it's an easy-entry type, so we may be comparing apples to oranges here, but if you don't have anything invested in it I'd personally go ahead and re-cut and re-shape the shafts (provided they are pipe and not wood), and again depending on how the wheels are attached and what you are going to use the cart for, put a new set of bike wheels on it. I put 20" on mine, and if I had it to do over again I'd use 24". (And remember, no pole-bending/barrel racing high-speed acrobatics, that would probably put too much twist and torque on them). You may want to get new springs for under the seat too. This one was pretty rough riding with it's original rusty (make that petrified) springs. I picked up 2 new ones at our local Amish buggy shop and it improved the ride considerably.


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## bunni1900 (May 28, 2010)

Thank you so much! I'm not sure its a sulky. From what Ive read it seems like a more easy entry type cart. It is in really good shape though. Well my mini isn't ready to pull yet as he is not even a weanling. So I have a few years. (that is unless I decide to purchase an older mini.) But he is only 18" now and will likely be about 28" as he matures. What size tires and bars should I use for one that size?


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## Marsha Cassada (May 28, 2010)

Just a note on measuring the length of the shafts--the "bars" that go down the side of the horse and attach to the cart:

Measure straight from the tip of the shaft to the place on the cart where the trace attaches--don't curve your measuring tape to follow the line of the shaft.


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## RhineStone (May 28, 2010)

I have a "Harness and Vehicle" parts list on my webpage that I specifically posted for newbies. http://rhinestone-ridge.wikispaces.com/Cart+and+Harness+Parts That might help you with the terminology. There are some parts with acceptable multiple names for the same part, and I have some of those listed, but what I have listed is acceptable for the carriage/light horse driving community. Draft drivers might use different terms, as well as other disciplines.

Bicycle wheels are not acceptable in any circumstance. Here is what can happen to a wheel on even just a trail.






This was taken after a Distance Drive, which doesn't necessarily consist of hard turns and stops. I'm not even sure this is a bicycle wheel, it might have been an actual cart wheel, but obviously it "didn't make it" through the whole drive. Just like there is "no hoof, no horse", there is also "no wheel, no cart". I can't stress this enough, USE GOOD WHEELS! I have more photos of other wire wheels that "didn't make it".

As far as the size goes, basically, the shafts need to be level or just slightly uphill, but never downhill. So you won't know this until your horse is done growing. You need to measure your horse from the point of the shoulder to the point of the buttock. Then add about 8-12" depending on the height of the basket on the vehicle (you don't want your horse to hit his heels on the cart). I like my horse closer vs. farther from me, but they definitely can't hit their heels!



I just learned from an FEI driver at a clinic that the walk is actually the "longest strided" gait, so if they don't hit their heels at a walk, they probably won't at a trot no matter how big the stride. Generally, the horse's hind legs go under them more at a trot, hence the walk being "longer".

Welcome to the driving community!

Myrna


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## Peggy Porter (May 29, 2010)

I just learned from an FEI driver at a clinic that the walk is actually the "longest strided" gait, so if they don't hit their heels at a walk, they probably won't at a trot no matter how big the stride. Generally, the horse's hind legs go under them more at a trot, hence the walk being "longer".

Welcome to the driving community!

Myrna

Interesting bit of info on the walk being the longest strided gait. Makes sense! Also, I cut the shafts off on my first pipe cart AND used bicycle wheels (the things you can do when you have no clue!!). Painted it myself and upholstered the plain wood slab seat, too! Used it for several years trail driving and through-the- field driving with no issues on the wheels except for an occasional flat. I did use BMX (bicycle moto cross) style wheels made from carbon fiber, so no spokes to fail. No old photos on this computer; maybe I can find one on the old desktop...


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## Katiean (May 29, 2010)

I took the "CHEAP" way out with an easy entry cart and got one of those china made carts for $350 shipping included. Durring our 3rd trip out the wheel bearings failed. We were lucky we were not far from home and there were 2 of us. One l had to lead the horse and one had to lift the cart off the ground cause the wheels wouldn't turn. If you rebuild this cart do it with quality parts and be safe. Also, like I said, if it is too big for your horse you could fix it and sell it to get one that fits.


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