# Anyone have experience with treating Demodex Mange with Ivermectin? (Boxer)



## Mona (Nov 28, 2008)

I had Abby to the vet today. About a week or two after her spay (at 6 months of age), I noticed she had hair missing on one side of her muzzle and a round spot over and to one side of her eye. I thought maybe she picked something up from the vets while there, or maybe some sort of skin allergy to straw or hay since I am now using it for the winter. (for the horses) It never seemed to get worse, so I have been applying hydrocortisone cream to it hoping it would heal. It never got better, but never got worse either, so never worried about taking her to the vet, since we are 80 miles away. Well, today we went to Fort (where the vet is) to do some shopping and of course had the dogs with us. Anyway, on the way up there, she was standing up on the console with her 2 front feet up, and her head was "above" me, and I saw another spot that I had not noticed previously, so I told Chris to swing by the vet and I would let him

have a look. Well, he did a skin scraping and upon examining it, he found her to have Demodex Mange. Apparently they get this from their dam while still nursing, but it doesn't always surface and can and will lay dorment for months and months, sometimes never surfacing, and other times, stress can bring it out. He said the stress from her spay and the extra bleeding likely was stressful enough to bring it out in her. He has to order some Advantage Plus (or something like that) as the stuff he had there had an expired date (August). I told him I was going across the border to International Falls, so he wrote me out a prescription for it from 2 clinics, in case one didn't have it, maybe the other would. The first one never, the other was closed, taking a long weekend for their Thanksgiving holiday.

I guess you can also give Ivermectin (which I have tons of here for the horses) but when I called him at home tonight, he didn't know the dose off hand. How have you treated it in the past if you have?? He said the Advantix or Advantage or whatever it is, is USUALLY

successful, but not always. I am hoping so, because if not, the other treatment is to try something that you have to treat daily for up to 6 months

with!!

Has anyone dealt with Demodex and how did you treat? Was it successful first time around? Anyone use Ivermectin, and with what results?? Or should I just get him to order that stuff on Monday, and if so, I should have it in my possession by next weekend. Thanks in advance.


----------



## mininik (Nov 28, 2008)

Here ya go:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.js...m/bc/190504.htm

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.js...=demodex%2cdogs


----------



## JourneysEnd (Nov 28, 2008)

Ivermectin is the way vets here are treating it now and it's very successful.

I have a dog that was treated the old way many years ago with the mitaban (sure I spelled that wrong) dip and the ivermectin is safer and easier. I ended up having Sam dipped 4 times. Really hard on the dog. Stress does seem to bring it on.

I'm assuming the post with the link is for dosage instructions, but if it's not, pm me and I can give you phone number to a vet tech friend who has experience with it.


----------



## Mona (Nov 28, 2008)

Thank you both for your replies. (and links!) One more question...it sounds like when they are referring to using Ivermectin, it is the liquid? That sounds like the dosage type they are referring to. So paste (Bimectin) would not be an option?


----------



## JourneysEnd (Nov 28, 2008)

Mona said:


> Thank you both for your replies. (and links!) One more question...it sounds like when they are referring to using Ivermectin, it is the liquid? That sounds like the dosage type they are referring to. So paste (Bimectin) would not be an option?


Right, it's the liquid and it has to be diluted. It's too hard to correctly dose the paste.


----------



## Mona (Nov 28, 2008)

Hmmm, thought this was interesting! http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_demodectic_mange.html

It says...



> FORM #1: LOCALIZED
> Localized demodicosis occurs as isolated scaly bald patches, usually on the dog's face, creating a polka-dot appearance. Localized demodicosis is considered a common puppyhood ailment and approximately 90% of cases resolve with no treatment of any kind. This is quite a contrast to generalized demodicosis as described below so it is important to be able to distinguish localized from generalized disease. It seems like this would be a simple task since localized demodicosis classically involves several round facial bald spots and generalized demodicosis involves a bald scaly entire dog; still, reality does not always fit into neat categories in this way. Some guidelines used to distinguish localized demodicosis include:
> 
> Localized disease does not involve more than two body regions. (One spot or two on the face and one spot or two on a leg would still qualify as localized even though the spots are not close together.)
> ...


So this sounds like maybe I wouldn't even need to do anything for Abby??


----------



## White Socks Miniature (Nov 29, 2008)

If your dog is showing signs of Demodex, treating with ivermectin is the best. We have always had great results. Do not just leave it, as the spots can get bigger, itchier and eventually it can turn into a generalized infection. At 6 mos old I would treat it, but keep a close eye on her for future re-occurances. If it re-occurs as an adult (past 2 years of age) you may want to look into an underlying cause as to why your dogs immune system cannot keep the numbers under control. All dogs pretty much have demodex, but in VERY small numbers as the animals body will keep them in check. We treat here with ivermectin (Ivomec) injectible BUT it is not given as an injection, it is given orally.

Cheers

Masako


----------



## uwharrie (Nov 29, 2008)

I would not treat the dog unless it is generalized. For localized ( a few spots) I would see if it goes away on its own. Many times it is simply a momentary weakness in the immune system due to stress (puberty, going into a new home) the spay itself could be enough stress on the system)

If it is generalized then ivermectin is the best treatment. you use the liquid cattle injectable. but it is given orally. Start with a low dose and work up to the maximum if the dog tolerates it. You do not dilute the liquid.


----------



## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 29, 2008)

I had heard that Ivermectin was dangerous for dogs. In fact I believe what i heard was that in some cases just having a dog lick up the paste a horse managed to slop from their mouth was enough to cause serious problems I believe (and please forgive me I don't recall exactly what I read) that the results were, seizures, paralysis and death. So how is it that the reccomended treatment for this condition is Ivermectin?


----------



## Mona (Nov 29, 2008)

Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> I had heard that Ivermectin was dangerous for dogs. In fact I believe what i heard was that in some cases just having a dog lick up the paste a horse managed to slop from their mouth was enough to cause serious problems I believe (and please forgive me I don't recall exactly what I read) that the results were, seizures, paralysis and death. So how is it that the reccomended treatment for this condition is Ivermectin?



It is/can be dangerous to some breeds of dogs, such as the herding type dogs.


----------



## Miniv (Nov 29, 2008)

I've also heard that Ivermectin was toxic to Dalmations.

Mona, We have a Lab mix who we rescued 6 years ago. He came to us in a mess......practically bald. Our vet also diagnosed it as Mange (the noncontagious type). He was put on antibiotics and 1 cc liquid ivermectin. It took about 30 days to clear.

A couple of years later he developed a few spots again and we dosed him with the 1 cc of the liquid Ivermectin once a day for a week. He cleared up again and hasn't had another episode in almost 3 years now. For our guy, we feel it has been stress related since his flare up was when we moved to our new place and when we initially got him we knew had been in an abusive home.

Just giving you our experience with it...........None of our other dogs have ever had it.


----------



## White Socks Miniature (Nov 29, 2008)

Yes Ivermectin is dangerous to some types of dogs... The saying is "white feet dont treat" Collies, shelties and other hearding dogs belonging in that category have a weaker blood brain barrier causing the ivermectin to reach the nervous system causing paralysis, seizures ect.


----------



## uwharrie (Nov 29, 2008)

some Herding dogs like Collies and shelties can be sensitive to ivermectin.

I have used it safely ( for heartworm preventative) on all of my dog for over 20 years



Reignmaker Miniatures said:


> I had heard that Ivermectin was dangerous for dogs. In fact I believe what i heard was that in some cases just having a dog lick up the paste a horse managed to slop from their mouth was enough to cause serious problems I believe (and please forgive me I don't recall exactly what I read) that the results were, seizures, paralysis and death. So how is it that the reccomended treatment for this condition is Ivermectin?


----------



## justagirl (Nov 30, 2008)

I dealt with a dog that had demodex for years ... treating here with everything even Ivermec, to no avail. It wasn't until she was spayed that it disappeared .... sounds crazy , but the vet said that it's not uncommon for it to disappear after spaying or neutering the dog.

I didn't read all the responses , so I hope I didn't just say the same thing as someone else 






Good Luck

PS , if you're using the liquid Ivermec the dose is 1 cc , per 10 lbs .


----------



## ChrystalPaths (Nov 30, 2008)

Mona, I have not read the replies but I will say yes, I know more about this than I ever wanted to. Same thing happened with my Kasha, the doberchild. Skin scape ewwwww mange BUT I did try the vet suggestions body wash and poison rinse left on NOT! bad stuff that... SO I went in search of and learned IVERMECTIN is the way to go. I know you realize this is an immune problem as well as a skin problem, 1ml of liquid ivermectin for your girl will do daily BUT (again) I adjusted Kasha's diet as well. She was already on Premium Choice Skin and Coat which is a salmon based food with no corn...minimum grain just veggies and taters....each night I would give her a full pound of raw meat (venison) with the ivermectin in the meat, and she eats that right up then gets some kibble (she gets kibble in the morning as well like your little girl Kasha is only about 18 mos old. In a weeks time she shone again and the hair grew back nicely. THEN I had her spayed and it began all over again....back to the ivermectin. So my point ( and I do have one) is 1ml of the liquid ivermectin each day for at least 30 days, with the red meat, then continue the red meat..if it crops up again (and it will cuz stress is the trigger ie vets, kennels travel) do the ivermec again..liquid is available at any farm store costs about $70 and last a long time. Deer (venison) is easily kept round here, not sure if you hunt but an extra deer this year will help and it costs little. Now folks who love the deer..know I love them also but we control a population by hunting properly and we eat the meat as well as feed it to the dogs. (sorry so long)


----------



## Mona (Nov 30, 2008)

Thank you to everyone for your responses here! I just wanted to post some photos that I just took. I took them outside so it would be natural lighting and not make it look worse than it is with the glare of the flash indoors. As you can see, it is not a real bad case. I will be speaking to the vet tomorrow, and I think we'll likely end up going with the Advantage Multi or maybe even just trying to let it heal on it's own. I do not have Ivermec liquid or injectible. I thought I could use worm paste, so I guess that's out. LOL! Here are the pics...do you think this may clear up on it's own, or should I go ahead and treat? In various online articles I read the other night, they said the Localized version in dogs 2 years (Abby is about 7 months) and under often clears up on it's own after the stress has been removed. In Abby's case, it was her spay and the extra loss of blood, I am sure. (couldn't get blood vessels to stop the blood flow!) They say it CAN turn to the Generalized form sometimes, but is common for it to get better on it's own.

*The affected areas:*


























*Her "good side":*
















*Face on, showing both side for comparison:*


----------



## Miniv (Nov 30, 2008)

OH MY LORD WHAT A SWEETIE SHE IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:wub





Sorry......That didn't help you much......But she has a face that I want to just take in my hands and kiss!

I have no clue what would be best, to be honest. Your vet will hopefully have an answer......and if you can, send him the photos to give him a better idea of what you are dealing with.


----------



## Mona (Nov 30, 2008)

Miniv said:


> OH MY LORD WHAT A SWEETIE SHE IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Thanks Maryann! Yes, she definately IS a sweetie!



The vet saw her on Friday when we were up there, so he had a first hand look at her. That is why the spot above her eye looks worse than it is (was) as that is the one that he did the scraping from, so is more "raw" looking than it was when I brought her in.


----------



## mininik (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm all for doing what the vet suggests at this point. I just want to ask if that choke chain stays on her all of the time? Those things can be deadly left on. Have you tried a martingale collar?


----------



## ChrystalPaths (Nov 30, 2008)

Mona, what did the vet suggest? The pills are SO expensive... I have to get another bottle of the injectable (used orally) ivermectin for Kasha and would be happy to get 2 and send one to you if you wish. I can let you know the cost you can owe me til then..it will get worse, poor Kasha looked like a leopard appaloosa before I figured it out. Right now it isn't so bad (and isn't she just SO kissable and she got BIG) caught quick it may do ok, I don't see why the tube wormer wouldn't work if put in a bit of bread? Ivermec is what she needs....If I can help holler. You do know it isn't contagious at all to humans or other animals right? I was freaked at first ewwww! and not to cause trouble but the dose is 1cc or ml per 100 pounds.


----------



## LindaL (Nov 30, 2008)

OK...when I 1st read this thread I didnt think Diego had what you were describing, but now that I see pics, I am pretty sure he has this as well....Here are a few face pics that show his pink muzzle. His previous owner thought it was from "licking" and we have tried Cortisone cream, which looked like it was working, but if it is mange Im guess that wont work long term.

What do you think from his pics?


----------



## Whitestar (Nov 30, 2008)

Linda

Do you use a metal or plastic food dish on your boxer. That does not look like demodex, but only a skin scraping will tell. I have seen this "look" on boxers using metal food bowls though, it goes away with use of a plastic dish. Hope that helps.

Debbie


----------



## LindaL (Nov 30, 2008)

Really? I had a vet tell me once that metal bowls were much better for dogs than plastic (I had a Lab that got an infection on his nose and the vet told me it was from using a plastic bowl)...and I have used metal ever since. My other dogs use metal and they dont have this...?


----------



## Mona (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks mininik...I am well aware of the dangers of leaving choke collars on unattended dogs.





Thanks Debs for the offer, but I will wait and see what the vet recommends, and I can always get the Ivermec from him if need be, but I am thinking he will go with the pills.

Linda, I agree with Debbie, I don't think your boy's pink mouth is from the mange. Abby also gets those pink lips, but more from chewing on her toys and frozen turds.


----------



## Indy's mom (Nov 30, 2008)

Hi Mona

First off, your Boxer is beautiful!!!

I have been threw Demodex with 3 out of my 4 Boxers and the best treatment I have found is to do NOTHING!!!! It will clear on its own!!! As long as it is just in spots, which your dog seems to be, not an extreme case where the dog is completely bald and miserable.

My 1 yr old just got over it, she had about 4 spots on her body. This was the first dog we "treated" by letting it run its course. She is completely fine now!

PLease do not use any of those advantage/advanticks chemicals on your Boxer, they are soooooooooooooooooo harmful!!!! Boxers are so sensitive to those types of things! I will try to post you some websites tomorrow about the negative affects of those chemicals. I am headed to bed now. My 13 year old Boxer died of Degenerative Mylopathy 2 yrs ago and I later found out that putting that flea/tick stuff on him ONE time helped to speed up the onset of the disease.

~Tammy


----------



## Mona (Nov 30, 2008)

Indy's mom said:


> Hi Mona
> First off, your Boxer is beautiful!!!
> 
> I have been threw Demodex with 3 out of my 4 Boxers and the best treatment I have found is to do NOTHING!!!! It will clear on its own!!! As long as it is just in spots, which your dog seems to be, not an extreme case where the dog is completely bald and miserable.
> ...



Thank you Tammy for your compliments on Abby. Also, I just wanted to let you know, we also lost our Boxer "Baylee"(will be 2 years ago in February) to the same thing as yours...Degenerative Mylopathy. It sure is sad to see their body (rear end) waste away like that and have such a perfectly healthy mind. That, I found, made it extra hard to have to be the one to make the decision when her time came.


----------



## mininik (Dec 1, 2008)

Linda, that does look like some sort of contact irritation. What sorts of food and chews does the dog get? Check out http://www.petfoodanalysis.com We only give raw meaty bones, stuffed Kongs or antlers. I would also suspect the bowls you use. I prefer sealed ceramic when we use them, which isn't often. I would also think about whatever you might use on your carpet for cleaning or freshener. If it doesn't clear up, I would consider allergy testing. As for pest control, we don't use any chemical treatments. I feed the dogs BugOff Garlic and apply Diatomaceous Earth (labled for use around pets) on the dogs as well as indoors and outside.


----------



## Sterling (Dec 1, 2008)

Awww Mona...your baby girl is so photogenic!!!



Just had to say that!


----------



## Indy's mom (Dec 1, 2008)

Mona said:


> Indy's mom said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Mona
> ...


Oh my gosh Mona I can't believe you too lost one to DM!!! I am sorry for your loss!! yes, it is SO hard to see them that way!! My Sting was at one time the #3 agility Boxer in the country so to go from such an awesome athlete to a bed ridden old guy was just heartbreaking!! I still miss him everyday!!


----------



## Matt73 (Dec 1, 2008)

Mona! Beautiful! What a sweet looking girl.

I have to say that Callie had something similar show up after she weaned her first litter of pups and it did clear up on its own (whether it was mange or not, I don't know).


----------



## Mona (Dec 1, 2008)

Sounds like your "Sting" was a very special boy Tammy! Thanks Matt for your compliment.


----------



## Witts Mini Horse Ranch (Dec 2, 2008)

I haven't read all the post..just jumped in after looking at the pics. Hey, you can send that mangey mutt to me!!!!! OMG she is beautiful...I didn't think there was one out there prettier than my Roxanne...but I think she has some stiff competition with your little girl. Hope she is doing better.


----------



## minie812 (Dec 2, 2008)

Tinker is in LOVE with your little girl



and he had something like that on one side of his face about a month ago a couple of spots. I gave him a bath in "HAPPY JACK" shampoo and it cleared up


----------



## Mona (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for your compliments on Abby Witts Mini Horse Ranch and minie812!!



Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been out of province since last Tuesday evening, and just returned home late last night.

I decided to go with what my vet recommended, and that is the Advantage Multi. I REALLY wanted to leave it to clear up on it's own and actually decided to do just that, but then after discussing it further, I found that in doing so, even if it cleared up on it's own and went back into the "dormant" stage when not stressed, she would still have it and it could reappear whenever tressed for other reasons. If I can kill it off with the meds, I think that would be best in the long run, as then it wouldn't(shouldn't) return even when stressed. I gave her her first dose today.

I do want to thank each and every one of you that posted replies here, and sent info via emails. It is all very much appreciated! Thanks for sharing your experiences!


----------



## White Socks Miniature (Dec 9, 2008)

Good to hear that it is clearing up! I just wanted to post a warning to not take your dogs swimming, hose them off near sewers that go directly into rivers ect. (if your near a river or body of H20 that may contain fish) Advantage Multi is extremely toxic to any aquatic life. Not saying dont use it, just be cautious of disposal and run off.

Cheers

Masako


----------

