# My minis cart is possibly too small??



## Mousie96 (Nov 4, 2013)

Here are some of the things I want you guys to know! Snowball is broke to drive, so I know its not that. Has had almost a year off of pulling the cart, but I have been ground driving him. He broke his harness because he freaked out when the cart bumped him when I was leading him with the cart attached. I think that the cart is too small, I will post pics tomorrow or the next day of him with the cart attached (pic from above his back). His butt is about 2-3" from the tree (I think that is the name?) here is a pic of him and my grandpa driving him. Help? I would love to be driving him! Because that's the reason I bought him, if I need a new cart, so be it!


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 4, 2013)

2-3 inches from butt to the tree is way too close, my boy is 12+ inches minimum from the singletree. Your whole set up looks like it could use some adjustments. Not being critical, just trying to help. Your shafts look low and your collar looks a bit high and it is hard to tell, but it looks like your traces do not go in a straight line to the cart? Tugs look very low which would throw off your cart balance and again, hard to tell with the small photo, but it looks like the crupper has dropped down a bit out of place?

Are the traces stuck going through some part of the harness mid way?

Small photo and I am squinting to see, but it does look like you should get somebody to look at your set up before you drive again. If your cart is not balanced and your harness not fitted right you might be setting yourself up for a bigger wreck. Even a well broke horse can come unhinged if some of the set up needs adjustment and things are either rubbing or imbalanced.

My boy would freak out if my cart ever tapped his hind end. It can also be dangerous to lead a horse with the cart attached. That is kind of like an exit while harnessed and my trainer said that is a no no.

Snowball is adorable. I LOVE that photo where snowball looks like he is laughing at the camera.

you will get some help here on the forum and photos are awesome to help paint a picture of what is going on so please don't think I am being overly critical, just trying to help you like so many have helped me and my boy with my setup.

best wishes.


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## happy appy (Nov 4, 2013)

I agree, cart looks like it is too small. Your harness does look like it needs a few adjustments also. I love the look of Snowball though. What a character


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## Mousie96 (Nov 4, 2013)

Thank you sooo much! I will be posting an add for my cart and be looking for a new one ASAP. And a new harness, how do I measure him for a new harness? How big of a cart? Got a idea of measurements for me or how to measure him so I can get correct measurements? This helps so much. Also, while on the subject Snowball was abused I believe at one point. When getting him to stand (while ground driving) is a bit of a pain. He is very soft mouthed and I don't want to hurt his mouth, how is the best way to teach him to stand? I have been working on it and he is getting much better at it. Any tips?


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## Rhondaalaska (Nov 5, 2013)

You could get bigger wheels and a longer shaft for the cart you have.

It looks to low for your guy.

How big is he

And how long from point of shoulder to rump.


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## shorthorsemom (Nov 5, 2013)

On the stand.. get some help from a person at his head, or line drive until you can communicate a whoa and then a stand command. they are different commands when I train.. If he does not have a good stand he should not be put to the cart until he knows the stand command. Work with him line driving until you feel comfortable. Consider getting an experienced trainer to help you if you can, or read as much as you can and ask a million questions here on the forum...thats what I do.

My boy is perfect with the experienced hands of my instructor, with my green hands he can be a handful at times and I do not drive unless my more experienced instructor is here working with me and when I am alone, I work with him without cart attached and line driving. A horse running away cart attached is something you do not ever want to experience. .

Folks that make harnesses can tell you the measurements they want from the horse and there are websites you can google those measurements too.

On the soft mouth comment... What kind of bit is in his mouth? Some snaffles are like nut crackers in their mouth. seems like the horse has a soft mouth, but in reality the bit might be causing pain. My boy drives in a straight bit. He hates the snaffle. Some horses prefer a french link snaffle. Also, has he had a recent dental exam? I would never drive my boy without a check of the teeth first.

I can chat later, you will get plenty of help here. I can tell you love snowball and want what is best for him. best wishes.

ps, he may not have been abused, but may have had an accident somewhere in his memory. My boy was attacked by dogs once. It is in his memory and affects how he drives and acts.


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## romewhip (Nov 5, 2013)

His cart does look too small, and his harness needs adjusted. The backstrap is too long, and his breeching is sitting too low. The hip strap should be farther forward to his girth, so it goes right over his hip. His breastcollar looks too high, it should rest just above the front point of his shoulder. His traces should make a straight as possible line from the breastcollar to the singletree. His check line is too loose, and if you're going to do pleasure driving I'd take it off completely. With a soft mouth I've found that my guy goes better in a mullen (slightly curved straight bar) mouth bit, I can't tell what you have on him from the picture.

I've been training stand with my guy, ground driving him without the cart. He likes to fidget when we stop, so we do lots of walking then whoa and stand for a little bit. I started with standing for just 10 seconds, then make it longer. I also had a helper when he is hitched, a header, to keep him standing while hitched. I do believe in using a helper at first when hitched to the cart with a green pony, keeping him steady while he adjusts to all the new feelings and sounds.

Your boy is ADORABLE! I bet with some more time and practice and a bigger cart he's going to be just fine.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Nov 5, 2013)

I won't comment on the cart and harness since i think you have gotten plenty of sound input there. On teaching him to stand quietly, I find letting a horse spend some time tied goes a long way to train them to relax when asked to stand in harness. I will often leave my horse tied for 1/2 -1 hour or more (until they are bored and relaxed) while I putter about cleaning stalls, pens or whatever else I can find to keep me busy within sight (I want to be there if a problem arises) Once they go into a relaxed stance almost as soon as they are tied I will harness them and let them stand with blinkers etc. while tied, then move on to asking them to stop and stand facing a fence while I am ground driving and eventually standing in the open. How long each step takes depends on the horse but the standing tied is something I continue off and on all their lives as I find it a great way to teach patience.


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## Margo_C-T (Nov 5, 2013)

Agree, it appears your cart IS too small for that horse(perhaps you can find a buyer for it who wants to drive a smaller mini?) Also agree about harness adjustments needing some 'tweaking'.

It might help in teaching the horse to stand quietly to keep your halter on under(or over, whichever way it 'fits' better)the driving bridle: with lead rope attached, it would allow you to correct unwanted movement w/o going into the horse's mouth.

Margo


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## paintponylvr (Nov 5, 2013)

The cart/harness ?s seem to have been answered by others.

Snowball is cute, cute, cute!!

Just because he fidgets and won't stand doesn't mean he has been abused. It may just mean he's never really been handled or taught to do what you are asking. There are many books and videos or dvd's out there that you can check out for training help along with asking here on the forums. Google horse dvd rentals - there used to be at least two places that actually rented out dvds - some that have just come out.

As to measuring for harness - to me it seems that most mini horse harness makers ask for the least amount of measuring and draft horse harness makers ask for the most BUT it also depends on what type of harness you are looking at by which company. For basic measurements - you measure the same parts you would for any tack or blanket plus another area or two.

A - mouth corner to mouth corner.

B - browband - easier if you already have some type of bridle w/o a browband on it to use to stabilize your browband measurement. This is measured below the ears & above the eyes from one side of the cheek piece to the other side cheek piece.

C - measure around the throat behind the ears.

D - measure around the nose about midway between nostrils and eye. Another way - about two fingers below the cheek bones.

E - mouth - across the tongue to just outside the mouth on each side.

As you may have guessed - this is just the measurement for a bridle and bit.

For the body of your harness -

A - measure around the girth (for your gig saddle on a pleasure harness) area. Your "barrel" measurement should be pretty snug.

B - from where the saddle would be to the top of the tail head (for your back strap and crupper). If you don't already have a surcingle (looks like you do), you can place your hand, flat, behind his withers (acts like the "saddle") and measure from the back of your hand to the dock of the tail.

C - for the breeching - measure from flank to flank around the "butt". I measured over the tail - but pulled somewhat snug.

D - For traces - you measure from the point of the shoulder to the point of the buttock for the harness maker.

Some want to know the height of the horse - from the ground to the top of his withers (not how you measure a mini horse for height).

Many new folk to minis (or to horses in general!) don't realize that the companies that have "stock" harness use 3 basic sizes for small equine - A, B & C. The A seems to correspond to the "smaller minis", B to the "larger minis" and C to "ponies"... UHHH - I have ponies that range in size from 10 hands to 14.2 hh. They DON'T wear the same size of harness - trust me. A B sized mini could have a smaller head than an A sized mini. An A sized mini could be rounder in the barrel than a larger mini - requiring both a larger surcingle (gig saddle) and breeching. The best harness company is one that will allow you to "customize" or semi customize parts by utilizing the measurements of your mini.

Case in point - my neighbor has a 36" mini gelding (very hefty & wide) that wears the same size headstall as my 14.1 hh Arabian mare!! Nothing in "standard" mini sizes fit his head - yet he isn't coarse or ugly. Of course - my mare didn't fit any standard arab "stuff" either. I couldn't find a bridle that fit her right until I suddenly found a "POA" headstall (western) and a "small cob" in English. Also, the size of the rings makes a difference - if you use a mini bit that has a 1" ring your headstall cheek pieces will be longer than if you have a mini bit with 1 1/2" rings. Same holds true of breeching.

Also, as your mini gains or loses weight or muscles up or gets his winter coat - you will be "tweaking" harness adjustments.

There are several companies that deal in harness for minis that advertise thru this site that are wonderful to work with and there are other companies that work with mini harness as well.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 6, 2013)

One of my Shetland harnesses actually fitted one of my Arab mares- the whole thing! Mind the Shetland was a standard (39") UK Shetland and she was built like an outhouse, bless her.

PP you have done a good job on the measurements thing, I do not think I have much to add except to say we expect more pictures and updates, please.

Ain't living vicariously fun?


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## paintponylvr (Nov 6, 2013)

Pictures similar to what you take of the mare you are still waiting to have foal would work great! of course, when he's wearing the harness.

If you use your phone, drop to your knees to take the piccies of him and his harness and cart. That way they are in better proportion. I WAS going to add some thoughts on the harness looking kinda weird, then I realized that what I was seeing was the angle brace on the cart - not part of the harness...

And a question - if you let the traces out, will the cart shafts drop too far behind the point of his shoulder?


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## jeanniecogan (Nov 9, 2013)

I was wondering about that too. Glad you wrote in because it ihas been a help to me with my fitting of harness and cart toCharlie. Charlie is doing well.


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## Mousie96 (Nov 10, 2013)

See the other thing is I think it's not wide enough. How can I get my shafts to be wider? I did fix my harness, like I took it up in a few spots so it fits him better but he broke a few parts it so I have to get a new harness or at least parts.


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## Mousie96 (Dec 19, 2013)

I have a question for you guys. Where can I get cart shafts? I have been looking but I cant find them anywhere!


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## izmepeggy (Dec 19, 2013)

Mousie96 said:


> I have a question for you guys. Where can I get cart shafts? I have been looking but I cant find them anywhere!


http://ctmproducts.com/CartParts/CartsParts.htm

This is their contact info..It is wrong on the website..

[SIZE=11pt]Jennifer [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Customer Service[/SIZE]

CTM Products

[SIZE=11pt]503-647-0082[/SIZE]


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## paintponylvr (Dec 21, 2013)

If you contact either Ozark Mini Tack or Star Lake Tack, they may be able to help you with getting new shafts.

Otherwise I have a contact that I can PM you... in OH. Have no idea what it would cost to ship. I took my cart "up" there to get refurbished. It got a heavier axle, heavier duty wheels with no air, flat free tires, wood shafts w/ footmans loops and a wooden single tree. I think I paid just under $300 for all of that (that was quite a bit - almost a new cart but not quite and worth every penny!).

I didn't go to OH just for the cart, but also to get equipment from another company and 2 sets of work harness with collars. Then went on to a mini/shetland pony breeding farm (bad idea,




)...

Do you have any family/friends coming down/going up from around here? I have a set of mini shafts in metal that you could have. I'm not in a position to figure out how to ship them, though... They are a "solid" U shape with a brace on each side, no single tree - would need to be attached to your cart via clamps that would have to either already be on your cart or needs to be welded on.


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