# Alfalfa.



## Lizzie (Dec 21, 2011)

Interesting article which is being discussed on our Gypsy Horse forum.

http://theintentiona...t-feed-alfalfa/#

In some countries, Alfalfa is known as Lucerne.

Lizzie


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## Nathan Luszcz (Dec 21, 2011)

Not to feed it for minis, or all horses? I've had issues with minis because its so rich, but its a fine product overall and with proper awareness and diligence it makes a WONDERFUL top quality feed.


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## Lizzie (Dec 21, 2011)

I wasn't condoning the article Diane, but just thought it was interesting and maybe worthy of discussion. Being out here in the South West, Alfalfa is pretty much the norm for all horses. It is also less expensive than most other hays and since there is no pasture here, all hay feed must be purchased. Like you, we have always fed Alfalfa. I had forgotten you also had PPs, like us. We will have to discuss that one day. I also had American Saddlebreds, Arabians and one Missouri Foxtrotter. All were fed Alfalfa with no problems.

My daughter feeds her Minis Alfalfa pellets and hay. She feeds her Gypsy Horses, half Alfalfa and half Bermuda. No pellets or cubes.

Lizzie


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## Genie (Dec 21, 2011)

We feed a timothy/alfalfa mix and I doubt that there are any farms around here that you can get straight timothy.

I know I could get straight alfalfa but I would think it's too rich for my horses as well.

We had Quebec buyers here and they had bales of straight orchard grass which looked nice but I didn't like the way it smelled






I guess I am just used to the timothy alfalfa mix and I chop it to feed it to my horses who will waste hay if in a slice.

Touch wood, we don't have many colic problems.

Interesting article and always so many different ideas.


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## Lewella (Dec 21, 2011)

I must say the whole "increased incidence of disease" portion of that article is one of the most scientifically flawed things I've read in a really, really long time!


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## Charlotte (Dec 21, 2011)

thank you for posting that article. It should lead to a good discussion.

We've fed alfalfa for many many years to big and small horses without experiencing the problems listed. I much prefer alfalfa in the diet over high grain/starch diets. We find it greatly reduces the incednece of colics and ulcers. Having said that though, all of our horses get 'some' grass hays too of varying amounts.


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## shadowpaints (Dec 21, 2011)

interesting.

i have always fed second crop alfalfa. has more nutrition than the grass hay. i am careful not to get my minis overly fat . never have had one founder either


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## JMS Miniatures (Dec 21, 2011)

I don't think alfalfa is a bad hay. I prefer not to feed straight alfalfa I really like the alfalfa/orchard combo.


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## Hosscrazy (Dec 21, 2011)

I've got the minis on timothy hay / soaked timothy pellets and the full size horses (Quarter horses) on #1 Alfalfa. I'm very happy with the results!





Liz N.


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## Equuisize (Dec 21, 2011)

I'll add my two cents.

I feed my mommy's alfalfa beginning 30 days out and

all the time they are nursing.

If available alfalfa is to stemmy I do use pellets instead.

We have A LOT of grazing and I don't feed it, except as a

topping to the minis. A handful on top of their hay ration,

of orchard grass, that they look forward to and are disappointed

when they think my handful, is to small. They also get some pellets

mixed in their grain.

My big guy, an Arab Pinto, is 16 and eats straight alfalfa.

He also gets, on his grain, a top dressing mix of Apple Cider Vinegar and Oil,

which we call his salad dressing.

My vet started my Arabs on that 30+ years ago, as he felt the Apple Cider

Vinegar helped in the formation of calcium crystals.

Don't know if that's a current protocol or not but I've never had any health issues.

As they've always eaten it well I've not seen any reason to discontinue

it, with last big guy.

I do also feed a alfalfa orchard grass mix when I can find a nice bales.


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## mydaddysjag (Dec 21, 2011)

I think its nearly impossible to feed a youngster the correct amount of protein in their diet without using a hay that is at least partial alfalfa. I have a weanling colt that is on alfalfa, beetpulp, and a handful of long stem soft timothy hay. My other horses are 4 and 11, and during show season, when they are working, I do give them an alfalfa timothy mix. Right now, they are both on straight timothy. To be honest, both are easy keepers, and get hefty on alfalfa if they aren't working. With going into winter, I like to be able to feed a higher quantity of hay to help keep them warm, but don't want them obese either. With them idle, I can feed way more timothy than alfalfa without them getting too too fat. Come March, everyone will go back on at least alfalfa mix, if not straight alfalfa.


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## Lil Timber Buck (Dec 21, 2011)

Okay, I am feeding my little 6 month old mini colt straight bermuda...about a flake a day. I haven't tried alfalfa. Everyone around here is sold out of it so what are your thoughts on the Alfalfa sold at Tractor supply in the small bales wrapped in plastic? It looked awfully course for him to eat. Please let me know!


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## MyBarakah (Dec 21, 2011)

Well... All my ponies get alfalfa only.. and where it's winter and not being worked they are not being grained.. and really am super happy with the condition they are all in.. I think alfalfa hay is so good for them.. now.. if it gets SUPER cold or snow storm I will give them a little grass hay.. Now.. I do have to say that the 1 full size horse I have is a coming 3yr.old quarter horse, Lenny. He gets 1 flake of alfalfa a.m. & p.m. but I also give him 1 - 2 flakes of grass hay with that a.m. & p.m. I could not just give him alfalfa only.. he'd be bouncing off the walls.. and where I have been around the full size horses most of my life... I have never feed straight alfalfa to one...but it works very well with these ponies and they each get one flake of alfalfa in the a.m. & p.m and that's it... These are fairly big flakes though..


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## wildoak (Dec 21, 2011)

Tractor Supply also sells TNT bagged, chopped timothy & alfalfa mix which might be a good addition to your feed if you don't like their bagged alfalfa. It's usually soft & palatable, and has a little molasses in it.

Jan


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## chandab (Dec 21, 2011)

wildoak said:


> Tractor Supply also sells TNT bagged, chopped timothy & alfalfa mix which might be a good addition to your feed if you don't like their bagged alfalfa. It's usually soft & palatable, and has a little molasses in it.
> 
> Jan


I think this might depend on the TSC. Our local TSC (local for me is 150 miles one-way) quit carrying the TNT chops, started carrying the Lucerne Farms HiFiber bagged chopped hay, and have now quit carrying that as well. Quite frustrating.


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## wingnut (Dec 21, 2011)

I truly believe that straight alfalfa is what has turned my hard keeper around this year. I believe she likely had ulcers and the combination of U-Guard in her feed every day along with the alfalfa helped calm her stomach enough that she was able to eat more. She now has a great coat, a decent body score and consistently eats ALL her food. I give her a small flake morning and night. She gets up to 2 hours to eat it. What's left is then cleaned up by my other 5. I think there may be some times that using it is not the best choice, but I'm glad I found it to be the right choice for my girl.

Interesting article though....it never hurts to keep learning!


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## JMS Miniatures (Dec 21, 2011)

Lil Timber Buck said:


> Okay, I am feeding my little 6 month old mini colt straight bermuda...about a flake a day. I haven't tried alfalfa. Everyone around here is sold out of it so what are your thoughts on the Alfalfa sold at Tractor supply in the small bales wrapped in plastic? It looked awfully course for him to eat. Please let me know!


Are you talking about the Standlee brand? I just bought a bale tonight so we'll see if its worth the price or not. The compressed bales by Standlee are not cheap but I liked the looks of the bale, its green and smells great. Plus 3 times now I've bought hay I have not been happy with, the only bales that I like are $10 for alfalfa/orchard at a feed store that are quickly selling out. I don't mind paying more for quality but I'm tired of paying so much for poor quality hay, so I'm hoping the compressed bales will be worth the price. I bought alfalfa/grass.


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## Matt73 (Dec 21, 2011)

I wouldn't feed straight alfalfa to my guys all the time. That said, I did look at some and am sprinkling it over my weanlings grass hay (just for a treat). It's just so very rich (really really green). I like to be able to throw as much hay as I want at them (especially in the winter), and you just can't do that with alfalfa with ponies and minis.

Edited to add: I do feed my guys Gro 'n Win, which is a 32% protein ration balancer that is fortified with some alfalfa


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## Becky (Dec 21, 2011)

> Okay, I am feeding my little 6 month old mini colt straight bermuda...about a flake a day. I haven't tried alfalfa. Everyone around here is sold out of it so what are your thoughts on the Alfalfa sold at Tractor supply in the small bales wrapped in plastic? It looked awfully course for him to eat. Please let me know!


I'm feeding the Standlee brand compressed alfalfa to my weanlings and they love it! The Standlee hay products are always high quality and consistent so you know it's going to be good from one shipment to the next.


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## Matt73 (Dec 22, 2011)

Am I seeing that right?! One flake/day?! Is he on grass, too?


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## Driving Miss Dixie (Dec 22, 2011)

How much hay do you feed per day/per horse? I mean the weight.



Matt73 said:


> Am I seeing that right?! One flake/day?! Is he on grass, too?


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## Lil Timber Buck (Dec 22, 2011)

Yes it is the Standlee Brand I am talking about. He is on 4 cups of mini Horse and Pony Feed by Purina a day-2 cups in the morning and two in the evening. He gets as much hay as he wants which usually ends up being about a flake a day and he is a porker on that. I want to be sure to give him enough to grow healthy, but don't want him to be way overweight. My vet said he is on the verge of being chubby!


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## Gamblin Park (Dec 22, 2011)

I am finding it so very interesting to read about what you feed and am slowly working out what the equivilant to it would be here in Australia. I had a feeling the Alfalfa was what we call Lucerne (yay got it right lol).

I do not feed Alfalfa (Lucerne) ever the range in protien % is way to unstable and I think that is due to our soil conditions.

Now I think what you guys call Chopped Hay we call Chaff. We have Oaten Chaff, Lucerne Chaff and Shandy Chaff (50/50 mix of Oaten & Lucerne) and I think what you call Orchard Hay we call Meadow Hay which I have never seen made into chaff.

Ok the reason I stopped using Lucerne (Alfalfa) was due to the unstable protein %'s I had one bag of Lucerne Chaff that was about 15% and the next was about 25% both bought from the same Stockfeeders and on the same day, I had horses and ponies that had colic constantly I read an article somewhere about the protein and how eratic the %'s could be so I stopped using it as I was able to replace the good stuff in the Lucerne with supplements that were more in keeping with what is available naturally in our area.

All of my horses Big and small are fed the same just in varying amounts of course, I also know that we don't have the bitter cold etc that some of you experience and as our Summer can be very warm most of our showing is done in Winter so our ponies etc are all rugged and clipped and stabled or at least have shelters.

My guys are hard fed once a day, they have hay for breakfast (plus grazing) and a grain based feed at night. Their feed consists of Oaten Chaff, Sweet Chaff (oat husks sprayed with oil is bloody awesome stuff what ever your horse needs ie to gain or loose weight this stuff helps have no idea how but it does), Soaked flaked Lupins, Soaked Barley, Soaked Wheat and Soaked Oats, Flakey Bran, Sulphur (releases the anti oxidents in the Lupins) Garlic (anti imflammetry and helps with insect repelling) Black Sunflower Seeds, Coolstance Copra Meal (pre soaked) Groom (multi vitamins and suppliments) Full Fat Soy Powder and Red Cell.

This is my big Stallion he is a Paint Bred and is 6yrs old he is actually shinier and bigger now these photos are a fewmonths old now better get some updated ones







and one or two of my big broodmares these were taken a few weeks ago.





The chestnut mare in front (photo on the left) is 17.2hh TB and 14 yrs old she has had 3 foals one of those foals is my Paint bred Stallion


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## Lewella (Dec 22, 2011)

We grow alfalfa for our dairy cattle and it is my preferred hay for the ponies and minis. I prefer first cutting which is more course and tends to have a little volunteer grass (quack or brome usually) mixed in. First cutting will also test lower for protien. If you are feeding baled alfalfa all from the same field the protien content is not going to vary a great deal from bale to bale. It can vary quite a bit from field to field though depending on the stage of growth when the stand was cut. Ideally for dairy cattle you want the highest protien possible so you cut before the flowers start to bud. Once it is budded then the protien content begins to drop. I do feed second crop to the ponies if cutting was delayed and the field was in full bloom before being cut.

One important thing to do if you are feeding alfalfa is be sure that your horses have access to a ration balancer to balance out the calcium in the alfalfa with the correct amount of phosphorus. Of course even on grass hay or pasture horses should have a ration balancer but for the opposite reason - grass hay is usually very low in calcium.


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## Eohippus (Dec 22, 2011)

What worries me about our locally (Arizona) grown Alfalfa is blister beetles. In the SE region of the state they're a big problem, so I've heard from many farms/breeders/trainers/etc out here no to buy Alfalfa (and to error on the safe side any hay even though they feed on legumes like Alfalfa not Bermuda grass) grown in the SE region. When it comes to what to feed a horse I always finding it interesting seeing what every one else around the country, or globe, does. What to feed is such a personal choice based on region, horses, goals with the feed, supplements, and personal choice. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a "perfect" feed to use world wide? Haha one can dream!


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## HGFarm (Dec 22, 2011)

I also have fed nothing but alfalfa and in 40 years have never had any of the problems listed like ulcers, entroliths, etc... regardless of whether the horses were working cattle all day, nursing a foal, competing in events or my Minis driving or just idle hanging around- nor has anyone else I know.

Spring pasture has WAY more protein and very high calcium content compared to alfalfa. Also, 20% protein is pretty high for alfalfa- normal range runs from 15-18% so I dont know where they are getting their information that some is 18-20% 'at least' with some 'often higher'??

The issue that it 'overloads' kidneys is one of the biggest myths regarding feeding alfalfa.

The energy level alfalfa provides is pretty close (sometimes even under)to what is required for various horses- weanlings and growing youngsters, to performance, to broodmare, etc... The protein content at the average 15-18%, is meeting the needs of growing foals through their yearling year. Grass has about half of what is needed.

I could probably find people here who have had horses on grass diet, who spend a fortune on supplements to find the right 'balance', who have had some serious issues with feeding grass hay. Grass hay can be constipating, and it can ball up in the stomach and cause colic. It is also way too low in protein and calcium... etc..

I would be very happy if I could get a nice alfalfa/orchard grass mix, but it is not to be found here. The bermuda is awful and I use it for bedding during foaling - it is just poor nutritionally. The timothy hay here is relatively nice, but a 3 wire bale is about $24 a bale.

I think people think they need to feed alfalfa in the same amount as they do grass hay- you should be feeding much less. Also, do not feed a bunch of hot supplements, corn, etc.. with alfalfa either.

If the horse is healthy with no other issues (past founder, sugar problems, etc...) I have never seen a problem with feeding alfalfa, nor do I know anyone else that has had problems, regardless of the breed or size of horse. A vet would know what kind of diet to put a 'special needs' horse on.

Here is a good article or two on feeding and some of the 'myths' that are also out there:

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/hrs3243

http://www.alfagreensupreme.com/pdf/TB%20Times%20Alfalfa.pdf

http://www.alfalfahayfarm.com/Alfalfa_Horse_Feeding_Facts.html

I am sure there are just as many pros as cons to be found on the internet regarding who feeds what.......


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## JMS Miniatures (Dec 22, 2011)

Lil Timber Buck said:


> Yes it is the Standlee Brand I am talking about. He is on 4 cups of mini Horse and Pony Feed by Purina a day-2 cups in the morning and two in the evening. He gets as much hay as he wants which usually ends up being about a flake a day and he is a porker on that. I want to be sure to give him enough to grow healthy, but don't want him to be way overweight. My vet said he is on the verge of being chubby!


I defintelly would not call your lil guy chubby. He has a lot of hair that fools a lot of people to think they are fat. You have to put your hands on them to feel their body condition when a horse has a lot of hair. Your guy looks great at least in this pic. But you need to go by weight on the bag and not just by volume. For a weanling he needs to have almost a pound of grain a day and at least a pound of hay a day. He may be getting more or less then whats suggested, but if his body condition feels good to you then I wouldn't change a thing.

So far I'm happy with the Standlee compressed bales, they hay looks really good, smells awesome, and the horses love it. A flake weighs at least 3.5 lbs and had a couple that feels more heavy. So you may have to break it up some so you aren't over feeding that way you can save some hay so you have to weigh it. I found some more bales at another store that were $2 less then at TSC and I'm assuming because it wasn't in a bag. Which I could really care less. I bought orchard grass cause I wanted to see if my horses would eat it because my last orchard bales my horses could care less.


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## Helicopter (Dec 22, 2011)

I've always understood that Lucerne (Alfalfa) was developed as a feed to fatten cattle and was too rich for horses so I don't feed it. A liitle Lucerne Chaff in a mix with Oaten and goodies but not Lucerne Hay. Having read here that other people have fed it for umteen years with no ill effects I may have to rethink my aversion.

Love this Forum.


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## Katiean (Dec 22, 2011)

I have tried just about every kind of hay. I do feed alfalfa most of the time. I have just changed them from alfalfa to grass because I am moving them to a full care facility and they feed the donkeys grass hay. Even though they will feed what ever hay I want. I would prefer a good mix (alfalfa/orchard grass) But I don't want to make a problem. The only hay I won't feed my horses is Teff. This is because I have one mare that coliced 3x's on Teff and one that is totally alergic to it. I have never had any problems with alfalfa. I do get a good quality with thin stems.


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## Lil Timber Buck (Dec 23, 2011)

Thanks for the great advice everyone!


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## Marty (Dec 24, 2011)

I have fed it for many years. Its good food in my opinion. I just don't usually feed it straight; I prefer to mix it with grass hay.


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## Lil Timber Buck (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok so I tried the Standlee alfalfa mini-bales and it has given him super-horsey powers or so he thinks  Is this normal?? I only gave him about 8 soaked mini-bales (you know the little pieces of compressed, rock-hard alfalfa about 3 inches long by an inch square.


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## JMS Miniatures (Jan 1, 2012)

Are you talking about hay cubes? Alfalfa can make a horse hot, gives them extra energy and if its not used up it can be like giving a kid soda or candy just so much sugar they don't know what to do with. If you are feeding the actual cubes you may want to try the alfalfa/timothy mini hay cubes. Its perfect for the minis with the smaller size.


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## HGFarm (Jan 2, 2012)

We've never had alfalfa make a horse 'hot'... I did post some articles in a previous post about the 'myths' of feeding alfalfa.


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## Mona (Jan 2, 2012)

I have also always fed an alfalfa mix throughout the years without any problems at all from it. When I bought our first horses about 20 years ago, I went to a "horse information clinic" hosted at a local farm, and the vet stated that "the only alfalfa that will hurt a horse is the alfalfa he never got.". What he meant was, you need to introduce it slowly and feed it knowledgeably, and it won't cause problems. I have done that and through all my years of feeding it, have never had any problems with it. That said however, I fed a limited amount twice daily...I never feed free choice.


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## JMS Miniatures (Jan 2, 2012)

I will still say if fed straight alfalfa if that extra energy is not being used up it can make a horse a lil hotter. I will repeat that I don't think alfalfa is a bad choice of hay, but I much prefer a mix of some type of grass hay to go along with it, it helps balance it out.

http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/nutrition/hay/eqalfalfa432/


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## Mona (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't mix another hay with it as an extra hay, it is just grown as a "mix".


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## mydaddysjag (Jan 2, 2012)

I love alfalfa, but I DO think for about the first week, it does make my horses hotter. They do seem to settle after the first week. I figure it like this, coffee doesnt make me nuts, but if you dont drink it for months, then start drinking it daily, it takes your body about a week to adjust to the extra energy, then we calm down.


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## HGFarm (Jan 2, 2012)

I would NEVER feed alfalfa free choice either- they would be so fat they would probably drop over!

I am always open to new things, so this week I picked up some grass to go with my alfalfa and I will see how they do with it, any changes, etc.... if any. They are not happy about the grass, lol. I will try to make my own 'mixed' hay since no one here seems to carry any.


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## ohmt (Jan 2, 2012)

I love alfalfa! That being said, people need to be aware that a horse can use up certain amounts of protein and the rest can be detrimental. It increases the horses risk of a variety of diseases and other health problems. Again, I love alfalfa, but feed it with grass hay and a grain or supplement that compliments it.

PLEASE if you feed alfalfa, read this article! http://www.womenandhorses.com/protein20050517.html


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## Riverdance (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, right away I would not trust anything she has to say. Alfalfa is not acidic, but alkaline. It is why horses that eat Alfalfa do not get ulcers as often.

It is amazing how there are so many articles on the internet written by people who have no clue.

In MN, Alfalfa is all my Morgans and Minis ate along with oats or a low protein grain. Except for the show horses. Here in Fl, I can only get costal grass and have had to up my grain to a 14% as the horses are really loosing weight. Alfalfa is out of the question here as it is $18.00 a bail and I used to go through 1400 bales in MN.


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## JMS Miniatures (Jan 2, 2012)

Yep alfalfa is good for horses more prone to ulcers as it helps soothes the stomach. The grain I use has a alfafla based meal in it for prevention.


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## ohmt (Jan 2, 2012)

Excess protein CAN lead to acidosis-that is nutrition 101.

It sounds as though you fed alfalfa according to how it should be fed riverdance, with the lower protein grain. It is about balancing the diet which is why I posted the article. The article does not say that alfalfa is bad. It educates about the risks of overfeeding protein and talks about balancing diet which is why I posted the article in the first place. People forget-it's all about balance.


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## Riverdance (Jan 2, 2012)

Castle Rock... mine like the coastal grass ..unfortunately since I am new here, it has been hard finding anything. I have 13 round bales from one farmer that is holding them for me and I go to pick them up as I need them. I got 20 round bales from one person and they were not that great and my horses were loosing weight. They are now on the better coastal hay. I had another farmer with 17 bales, but he sold them out from under me. My farrier has 200 throw bales that I am buying from him, but at a bigger price than I would have paid for them if I had found some earlier. I guess I am lucky to have found those as most farmers have shipped their hay out to Texas for higher prices.

With 42 head here, I just can not afford Alfalfa. ( I am used to getting it for $5.00 a bale) I would go through about 5 bales a day back in MN. Here it would be 4 bales, but still, that would be $72 a day.

I tried the Miniature horse feed, but they were loosing weight with it ( had them on it for almost 3 months), so I switched to Seminole 14%. We'll see how they do with that.


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## Connie P (Jan 3, 2012)

This has been a wonderful and informative thread!




Thank you! I have always been so afraid to feed straight alfalfa but I am reconsidering.


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## Genie (Jan 3, 2012)

One good thing about living in Southwestern Ontario is timothy/alfalfa throw bales are 3.50 each.

I know that some can get the bales for 3.00 but we pay a bit more to get good quality that has never had any rain on it after cutting.

Maybe it balances out though to the more temperate places where you don't have to feed hay for 6 months of the year?


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## HGFarm (Jan 3, 2012)

OK, alfalfa here is $17.95 a bale, but it's big 3 wire bales. The bermuda we get- that is usually used for bedding during foaling- and yes, like Diane's my horses think it's great to pee on- is usually HIGHER than the alfalfa! Timothy last I looked, was about $23 a bale. There is no pasture where I live- it's all dry lot. I sure dont see that grass is a more economical feed because you have to feed a lot more of it for them to get much nutrition out of it- and they waste some too because they pick in it, scatter it around and really dont like it a whole lot. Other kinds of grass- orchard or timothy, they will eat, but who can afford the price of timothy and there is no orchard grass to be found here period.


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## Riverdance (Jan 3, 2012)

Horse pee on any grass or Alfalfa hay. Back in MN i would throw out their hay and the first thing some of them would do was pee on it. UGH!! I guess it was their way of saying, this is mine!!

If costal grass is grown right, with fertilizers and no rain on it, the protein can be just as high as Alfalfa. I have since found a farmer who grows throw bales just for horses. Many people give just a little Alfalfa with a horses meal, but they need to be able to graze. The nice thing is with the costal grass, it provides ruffage. Since moving down here I have been researching different hays. the costal grass is not bad, one just has to find a farmer who grows it right.

Would I prefer to still feed Alfalfa, yes. Maybe when I am able to sell 1/2 of my herd, I will better be able to afford the Alfalfa. I brought 40 bales of it down with me and am still feeding it to the show horses, but am just about out. Then $18.00 a bale for them. The rest, a top quality feed and costal grass. Still expensive, but doable.


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