# I need Zoning help!!!!



## DanaHR (Jan 31, 2008)

Please help - I don't know where else to go!!!! Before we brought Pasha home (our 30 inch miniature horse), I contacted the Greenville County Zoning (SC) commission to make sure we had everything in order. At that time, the woman in charge told me that we were zoned for one full-sized livestock per 1/2 acre of land. Since we had just under a half acre, I asked if we could lease some of our neighbors land to make up the difference. At that time she said yes. We worked things out with the neighbor and I thought all was fine. We brought Pasha home and everyone except for a woman who lives 2 blocks over was thrilled to have her there. This woman complained that we were in violation of zoning laws and we got a notice from the county. I called the zoning commission back and spoke to the same woman that I spoke to in December. Now she says that we have to actually buy the neighbors land and that a lease agreement does not have any impact on zoning laws. This of course is very different that what she told me in December. Now I have two issues....does anyone know if leasing land will suffice for meeting the land size requirements for zoning laws and how can I go about having our miniature horse classified as an exotic pet rather than livestock. The neighbors dog is bigger than our horse !!!! Any help out there would be great. We love Pasha and don't want to lose her. =






DHR


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## BLACKWATER FARMS (Jan 31, 2008)

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Your zoning is under the control of your local village or township, county.

You need to contact an attorney who deals with this type of situation.

My experience with zoning is NEVER believe what someone tells you from the zoning offices--ALWAYS get it in writing (as half the time the people who work in these offices don't understand their own ordinances)--

sometimes you can get a VARIANCE or special use permit--you need to petition the zoning board. Usually takes months but can be done.

Best of Luck!

Linda


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## Carolyn R (Jan 31, 2008)

I would ask for an actual copy of the zoning pertaining to the horses and or livestock. See if it states that you must provide X amount of land for each animal or if it states you must own X amount of land for each animal.

To play the devil's advocate here, depending on where you live, I am sure there are farms that are not a legitamate boarding facility, however they allow others to rent the land or they keep horses there for friends. With that said, wow, then I guess they aren't allowed to do favors for their friends either, especially if the friend actually lives in your municipality. Assuming the friend owns less than .5 acres of land.

I don't know if you get what I am saying. Usually it is not about who owns how much land but rather is there land provided that meets the criteria that is set forth for the welfare of the animal.

Get a copy in writing regarding animal; zoning.

Carolyn


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## DanaHR (Jan 31, 2008)

Carolyn R said:


> I would ask for an actual copy of the zoning pertaining to the horses and or livestock. See if it states that you must provide X amount of land for each animal or if it states you must own X amount of land for each animal.
> 
> To play the devil's advocate here, depending on where you live, I am sure there are farms that are not a legitamate boarding facility, however they allow others to rent the land or they keep horses there for friends. With that said, wow, then I guess they aren't allowed to do favors for their friends either, especially if the friend actually lives in your municipality. Assuming the friend owns less than .5 acres of land.
> 
> ...




Our zoning ordinance states that you must have at least a 1/2 acre of land per head of livestock. We have just under a 1/2 acre, but had an agreement with our next door neighbor to lease the additional 5,ooo square feet along our adjoining fence to make up the difference. Now they are saying that we have to own the land and our actual property line has to be changed with the tax office in order to be in compliance. I cannot find anything that says you have to own the land. I can't seem to get any straight answers and can't find the help.


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## Jetiki (Jan 31, 2008)

This is taken directly from Greeville, SC Website.

http://www.greenvillecounty.org/Codes_Enforcement/Zoning.asp I think it depends on your zoning, what is your property zoned?

(14) Horses in Residential Districts

Ponies and horses may be kept in the ESD-PM, R-20 and R-15 districts subject to the district

requirements and the following conditions.

A. The minimum lot area upon which horses and ponies may be kept in the R-15, R-20, and

ESD-PM districts is 1-1/2 acres. Not more than one head of livestock shall be permitted

for each 1/2 acre of lot area except in the R-S district.

B. Space or shelter shall be provided where livestock is kept or fed and shall not be

permitted within 50 feet of any property line in the R-15, R-20 and ESD-PM, districts

except where such property line abuts a street, railroad, or watercourse at least 50 feet in

width. For additional minimum setback requirements, refer to the Transportation

Corridor Preservation Ordinance #3079.

Karen


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## Yaddax3 (Jan 31, 2008)

While I know nothing about laws in your community, I did spend eight years as a city council member where I live.

My advice:

Apply for a variance or conditional use permit.

While that is in what you will find to be a dreadfully slow process, talk to members of the planning commission and city council/town board about what you're trying to do.

You can point out to them that in many municipalities, miniature horses are viewed differently than full-size horses. For instance, in some places where only one full-sized horse is allowed, three or four minis are allowed.

Also, just how much -- or how little -- land do you have?

It will be easier to get a variance or CUP if you're close to the mandated 1.5 acres; if you have a 50 x 100 lot, well, good luck.


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## DanaHR (Jan 31, 2008)

Jetiki said:


> This is taken directly from Greeville, SC Website.
> 
> http://www.greenvillecounty.org/Codes_Enforcement/Zoning.asp I think it depends on your zoning, what is your property zoned?
> 
> ...





Thanks - I am zone R-15 and we can have them. We are having a problem with the lot size. Since we have just under a 1/2 acre, we leased land from our neighbors. Now they are saying that is not good enough and we have to buy the land. I also want to find out how to change the classification of a miniature horse from livestock to a companion pet. They just accomplished that two counties over, but I don't know how they did it or how I can do it. Any advice?



Yaddax3 said:


> While I know nothing about laws in your community, I did spend eight years as a city council member where I live.
> 
> My advice:
> 
> ...



we have .487 acres, so just under a half acre. The lady at the zoning commission said it was only a half acre required...are you understanding 1.5 acres required? I just don't know what to do. I would have never brought her here if I would have known we were doing something wrong. We even asked all of our neighborhood if it would be ok with them if we had Pasha and showed them pictures. I gave them each the opportunity to tell me before we even brought her home to voice their concerns. Everyone we talked to was excited about having her here. We have gotten so attached to her that it would just break our hearts to have to get rid of her.


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## Yaddax3 (Jan 31, 2008)

> I also want to find out how to change the classification of a miniature horse from livestock to a companion pet. They just accomplished that two counties over, but I don't know how they did it or how I can do it. Any advice?


Yeah, here's some advice:

Pick up the phone and call two counties over and ask how they did it. And then see if you can do it that way, too.


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## DanaHR (Jan 31, 2008)

Yaddax3 said:


> > I also want to find out how to change the classification of a miniature horse from livestock to a companion pet. They just accomplished that two counties over, but I don't know how they did it or how I can do it. Any advice?
> 
> 
> Yeah, here's some advice:
> ...



Thanks - already tried that....took forever to get someone to call me back. They are a rural community and was much easier to accomplish. They have one department to handle everything. I am in Greenville County and I can't even find someone to give me the same answer twice. The court of appeals for zoning just addresses whether or not we can have them. That is not an issue. I think the bigger issue is the acceptable lot size for a miniature horse. Surprisingly, many people don't realize that mini's are much smaller than a full-sized horse and therefore don't need as much land. I don't know how to get through the legalities in Greenville County to get the classification changed. =





DHR


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## New2Minis (Feb 1, 2008)

I dont THINK (just my opinion) that you have to own the land. So that would be like if you rented a house on 1/2 acre then you couldnt have a horse? You MUSt own the land. That doesnt make since. Typical county issues, their rules usually dont make since. Just like here you are allowed 2 hoofed stock per acre. And if you have more than 3 dogs you are considered a kennel, thats crazy........everyone I know has WAY more than that, lol.





Good luck!


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## BLACKWATER FARMS (Feb 1, 2008)

Instead of getting rid of your horse, try to find a place to board her (shouldn't be hard if you are in a rural area) and work thru your zoning issues. Last special use permit I had to do took 9 mos.

Anything you do with a zoning board etc, get everything in writing. You may also need to get an attorney who specializes in zoning issues to help you, often time and money wise the best way to go.

Small towns are tough because most of the people on the boards really don't even understand their own zoning issues.

Best of luck

Linda


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## Boinky (Feb 1, 2008)

why not request some sort of hearing with the right committee's. put together a portfolio of info from vets ect as to how much land a mini needs. maybe even take the mini in so that they can see the size of these small critters. it would make more sence to their mind if they saw how small they are. you will need to convince them so start making a portfolio


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## Marty (Feb 1, 2008)

In the first place, I'd be letting that lady know just what kind of trouble she is causing you for giving you mis-information. Be sure that the rest of the zoning board is highly aware of the grief she has caused you.

But do not fight or argue; instead arm yourself with FACT.

You will prepare a case that they cannot dispute.

Now then, don't panic because there are ways to deal with this.

Get your notebook, folders and ammunition ready and prepare to get to work:

A miniature horse is "equal" to 3 full sized horses. Sometimes every 4 !!! This is the position you can take.

You are not only in violation of SQUAT, but you also have room for another and maybe even 3!

You are going to prove this.

You can prove this beyond the shadow of a doubt with some very good research.

You can prove this by providing statistics from LB info pages (go to the main page and scroll down on your left and select)

Copy the list of height and weight charts

THEN, get an accurate height and weight of YOUR mini

Document that and have your vet sign off on it

Get information also on size and heights from websites on AMHA and AMHR

Take a picture of your horse standing next to a yard stick too

Now document and prove the difference in height and weights between a big horse and a miniature.

Again, research charts and heights and weights for big horses and make a comparrison poster.

Some of the LB forum members here sometimes display or have handy pictures they have taken with their minis next to a big horse. Get permission from some of them here to let you use some of those pictures for visual aids for the weenies in the zoning office. That's just for an extra added attraction. Ask and you shall receive.

Get your plot plan ready and also make a diagram of your property and feet and fence lines. Show where your manure disposal is and how this and your horse is not bothering anyone whatsoever. Show the shelter and make sure everything is nice and orderly and clean. Prove it. Take pictures of everything and every angel.

And then just for backup, you could also go as far as to having them grant you a variance for an "exotic pet" because just sometimes, if all else fails, you can go that route too and have the mini classified as not only livestock but exotic livestock. Now that is reaching, but that is something you can put on the back burner if all else fails.

You can come out smelling like a rose if you maintain your cool; be very matter of fact, and have plenty of documents in order.

Wishing you the best of the best of luck.


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## Katiean (Feb 1, 2008)

There always has to be a jerk in the neighborhood. If she lives 2 blocks away what is her big ol hairy problem. In our area (Northern Nevada) You can have 2 full sized horses if your (total) property is at least 1/2ac. Goats are not permitted. In our old house we only had 1/3ac. However we had 6 ostriches and 4 emus. The whole county knew they were there. But there was nothing that covered these birds. Animal control would sit and watch the birds at lunch time (they thought they were cool). My neighbors were actually mad when I did sell them. After we moved I went to the water district and got the lot measurement for my lot. It was 1/2 ac so we got our horses. I have 3 soon to be 4 (if I can get through the mountains to pick up my new mare). Here the policy is if no one complains it is all cool. In fact a friend of mine had goats. Her neighbor complained and she had to relocate her goats. Her neighbor (the one that complained) also had goats and did not have to get rid of her goats. The county said there had to be a complaint against them to make her remove them. So I guess we kind of have a policy of "If no one complains you can do what you want". Good luck and I hope everything works out for you.


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## Boinky (Feb 1, 2008)

lol i guess i'm just bitch enough that if i had to get rid of my goats because of that woman i'd be placing a formal complaint against that person plus getting others to. turn about is fair play!


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## Magic (Feb 1, 2008)

Katiean said:


> There always has to be a jerk in the neighborhood. If she lives 2 blocks away what is her big ol hairy problem.



Oh my, this hit my "funny bone"!



"What IS her big hairy problem?"

I've never had to deal with zoning so I don't have any advice, sorry, but I will be keeping you in my thoughts, good luck!!


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## Millstone Farm (Feb 1, 2008)

Since you're on just shy 1/2 acre, you might want to show that you have a plan for manure removal, since that might be what is behind your zoning. No one (who isn't horsey) wants to smell manure baking in the hot sun. Show the zoning folks that you are not "dumping" your manue on your land but either actively composting it, or sending it away (wherever). Manure pile in many people's minds = odor and flies.

Also - along the photo route - many of us have photos of our horses standing next to large breeds of dogs -- or better yet, being HELD. Little King uses a photo of a mini foal being carried off with the line. "pick one up and take it home." Great ad! If that doesn't drive home the point of just how small they are, nothing will.

You might also want to point out how horses are "friends" to the neighborhood (they don't call them "neigh"borhoods for nothing!) -- they don't BARK incessently, they don't have destructive tendencies to neighbor's properties (digging holes, peeing and pooping on lawns), they don't run in packs or bite children....

Like Marty said, get your ammo lined up now.


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## coopermini (Feb 1, 2008)

With our construction business we deal with zoning and code enforcement all the time. Yes they all have such a confusing mess of rules they usually do not know how to interpert them. You can get 3 different answers to the same question 3 days in a row from the same person. Leasing extra land worked for a family that bought a mini from us last spring. The big isssue I see for you is looks like you need a minimum of 1.5 acres to have any horses. That looks clear to me from the post of the zoning for your area. Your best bet would be to ask for a variance. Show them your lot and set up with plans for manure and such. Show them the size of your mini. Support from the neighbors will be required. What ever you do do not loose your cool and tell them what you really think unless you are loading a moving van at the time.

In the long run your best bet would be to find a place with ample land and already approved for horses. Less than a 1/2 acre is not much at all and leaves open the possibilty for another nosey neighbor with a "big hairy problem" to start things up at a later date.

Good Luck with everything!

Mark


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## Echo Acres (Feb 1, 2008)

We found out that it not only has to do with the state, and even county you are in, but how close you are to water. We are across the road from a lake and had to apply for a conditional use permit. This is some things we found out. When my mom sold her farm and wanted to bring her horses here I called and asked about what is considered for numbers. (We had a permit for 7 animal units) They told us a unit as they called it, is considered 1000-1200lbs. Also there was no wording any where in there about miniature horses so they would be exept. But they said if someone threw a fit, and complained they would go by weight and to add up our horses in 1bs. So we could get around 4 minis per animal unit. Also foals didn't count.

These are all things you can check into. We also went to a meeting where they decide on the permits ready to state our case if there was an objection.


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## Sheri Hill (Feb 2, 2008)

Before I moved here, (4 miles away) we had almost 3 acres in town... actually 1 acre was in the County and the rest was in the City. The city was growing up around us. I had a nasty neighbor complain (they were huge troublemakers and everyone knew it)



They didn't even come to the meetings. OH!

I changed the ordinance in my little town to classify mini horses as an exotic. Course it is a small town and a horse town, Ross Coleman (World champion bull rider) grew up here and his family lives here. We are famous for our Molalla Buckaroo for years. I also grew up here, just further out of town with more acreage. I went to my neighbors and started a petition of those that had no problem with it... I didnt have anyone against it... all my neighbors that abutted the pasture came to the city council meeting in my favor and even a gal I didn't know showed up in my favor to speak. (turns out I know her son) She said she would much rather have a mini next door than some barking dog! I took lots of info. from AMHA etc. and welcomed them to come out to my place, I was even going to take the minis in and had pics of my Akita that was bigger than my minis. I also had some articles etc. from other folks who won to keep their minis in town. Along with some other info. Really gathered the info. I also went to a guy who had sheep right in town (who has given lots of land to the city



and told him and said if they make me move mine, then everyone will have to, as I won't be singled out!! He was Mad and said they better not make him move his sheep! (one of the council members actually told me to go talk to him. he he) There were others that had donkeys and horses in town too that would be in violation. The mayor and city council member was also my old neighbor growing up and my Dad helped to build his house. Another city council member was my sons teacher and lived a block away and there was a horse behind his house that he enjoyed seeing. I could send you the info. from articles etc. that I took to win my case. The state and local paper also did articles on it, and I could send those and the changed ordinance. you can e-mail at [email protected]

I was very nice about it, but also made a couple lil comments about not being singled out and they would have to make EVERYONE move theirs if they made me move mine.





Sheri


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