# #%&@ people with invisable fences



## uwharrie (Nov 15, 2010)

Have been planning on driving Frosty in an upcoming Xmas parade so decided to take him out yesterday afternoon to see how he would react to bells. Of course like almost everything else he was not fazed. We have been driving up and down our road for several months now. Quite a few people don't keep thier dogs up but all they do is bark and occasionally follow. He totally ignores them. There is a Golden at the top of the hill in an invisable fence. For a couple of months we gave him a wide birth and he obviously wanted to do more than bark.

But after several months the dog never came out of the yard nor even got close to the street. We pretty much ignored him.

Yesterday we drove to the top of the road, the dog was there in his yard barking his head off but never came close to the road.

We turned around and starting to trot back, the dog was no where in site, as soon as we got even with thier drive the dog charged out and lunged at Frosty. It happened so quick I dont know if the dog actually made contact or not ( no bite marks on the horse)

Well Frosty freaked, started kicking and bucking, bolted and before I could get him under control went off the road and headed for a drain colvert, wheel hit the edge of that but I managed to stay in, he then headed for the opposite side of the side street which had a steep bank

that is when he lost me. He then headed straight down the road. All I could think of was thank goodness it is a dead end and there are no dogs ( only two houses) I saw him turn in the drive of one of them and thought he would stop.

He didnt, he tried to go thru the woods and the only thing I can figure is the "arm" on the backrest caught a tree.

When I got there the poor guy was laying on his side on top of the shafts and the cart was upright. A kind neighbor got there the same time I did. I told him to hold his head down while I got him unhooked ( thank goodness for lots of buckles)

I just knew the little guy had broken something.

Lucky for both of us he never struggled and once I got him unhooked I was able to get him to stand. Nothing broken, not even a scrape or bruise.

I left the cart and harness there and walked him home ( thank goodness only about a 1/2 mile)

The cart suffered a bent armrest, I have scrapes and scratches and a pulled hamstring from my launch into the road bank) but other than that all is well.

Of course the folks who owned the dog did not even have the common decency to call me back last night after I left them a message about the dog coming out of the yard after us.

The sad thing is we do not have a leash law here. But I will report the dog since it actually came out with intentions to bite.

I learned several lessons here, never trust a dog that is not behind a secure fence, Never let your guard down, and figure a way to stay in!!


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## Charley (Nov 15, 2010)

I am so sorry that this happened to you and Frosty. I hope the dog's people get your message today and call you. And do something to restrain their dog! Will keep Frosty in my thoughts....he must be pretty scared.


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## targetsmom (Nov 15, 2010)

I am so sorry about your scary experience. I would just add that there are some dogs I wouldn't trust AT ALL. I once had a chained dog break its chain and come after a horse I was riding. Never rode that way again....


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## MiLo Minis (Nov 15, 2010)

Thank goodness neither of you were seriously injured! Dog owners should realize that those invisible fences won't restrain a dog that is moving fast and runs right through them. They are liable for any injuries or damage that you did sustain. Both you and your horse are going to need to get right back in the shafts ASAP if you want to continue driving with him and he is likely going to need some retraining on how to handle dog situations. You might consider arming yourself with a good long whip or pea shooter.


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## Marsha Cassada (Nov 15, 2010)

Wow! So scary! Things like that happen so quickly I'm not sure it is possible to deal with it any better than you did. What could you possibly have done different? Thank goodness the dog did not continue to chase Frosty! Or attack you.

The only dog that has ever "attacked" me while driving was a chico-dog (I'm not sure a 2 pound dog can fairly by called an attacker while one is in a cart!). We were driving in town and it rushed at my horse, barking, out of its yard. My horse stomped on it and it ran crying home. The owners came to the door--what could they do? There IS a leash law in town.

I'm surpised that a Golden would have that personality; he must have some serious issues to lunge out of an invisible fence.


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## uwharrie (Nov 15, 2010)

Believe it or not the worst dog I even encountered while working at a boarding kennel was a Golden. The dog was downright mean and would bite you in a second if you let your guard down.

Now for the most part Goldens are sweet dogs.

The one that came out after us has acted like it wanted to eat us any time we went by (does the same thing to my daughter when she walks her dog)

I got careless when I assumed after several months the dog would not come out of the yard. I know better now!

Now to find some pepper spay!


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 15, 2010)

MiLo Minis said:


> Both you and your horse are going to need to get right back in the shafts ASAP if you want to continue driving with him and he is likely going to need some retraining on how to handle dog situations.


I'm so glad MiLo said this! The worst thing you can possibly do at this point is give him time to think about this. If it were me and the cart was still able to roll and be pulled I think I would have hitched him and ground-driven him home if at all possible. Even if both of you are sore today, which I'm sure you are, get him out and hitch him up and at least have him pull the cart up and down the driveway once or twice at a walk. It's important that he get back to work right away and that this isn't allowed to grow into a huge frightening experience in his mind.



Marsha Cassada said:


> Wow! So scary! Things like that happen so quickly I'm not sure it is possible to deal with it any better than you did. What could you possibly have done different?


 We've got some dogs like that in the neighborhood and I give them no quarter; I like dogs but simply can't afford to be nice when driving! The first time they rush the fence barking aggressively I "puff up" big in the cart, project a "Don't mess with me" aura and yell really sternly at the dog. If they don't get the idea I smack the ground in front of them with my whip or make a loud noise on the fence with it or will even throw a rock in their general vicinity to scare them. I don't want to hurt the dog of course, but I cannot afford to have the dog see only my horse and think "prey"- I want it to see ME and think "Master!"



This usually works pretty well if done the first time you meet them.

If a dog is loose and comes towards me with aggression I will not hesitate to smack them with the whip. I've taught my gelding to face scary dogs and if possible move into them as most dogs I've met lose their nerve when the "prey" suddenly starts stalking them with its ears pinned.



This isn't always possible of course and many more timid horses will not do it, but it's useful if they will.

Nice dogs who are only barking with excitement or alarm don't get this treatment from me, only ones I'm concerned about.



The nice dogs I call out to and soothe, then praise until their tails start wagging.

There truly isn't much you can do about a dog who rushes out suddenly like this one did though. The best you can do is hope to get them with your whip and try to keep your horse under control until you can drive the dog off. I'm glad neither of you was hurt worse and wish you both a speedy recovery, both mental and physical.

Leia


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## RhineStone (Nov 15, 2010)

hobbyhorse23 said:


> If a dog is loose and comes towards me with aggression I will not hesitate to smack them with the whip. I've taught my gelding to face scary dogs and if possible move into them as most dogs I've met lose their nerve when the "prey" suddenly starts stalking them with its ears pinned.


Been there, done that, too.



Alax _hates_ dogs in his territory. I have seen him take after a dog that has gotten into our paddock. When the cart starts chasing the dog, the dog usually backs off quick. The last thing I would do is run. Be the predator, not the other way...

Myrna


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## uwharrie (Nov 15, 2010)

I had thought about hooking him back up there and leading him back but was taught that being on the ground with a hooked cart is an easy way to lose control and did not want to risk another accident. I do plan to hook him back up at the house this week, the time change has made it hard due to working till almost dark. if nothing else I will hook him and drive in the paddock even if it is dark.

The good thing is he did not seem to bothered by the whole thing, and surprising to me I am not afraid to drive again. I think that is due to the fact I came out of it fairly unscathed.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Nov 15, 2010)

uwharrie said:


> I had thought about hooking him back up there and leading him back but was taught that being on the ground with a hooked cart is an easy way to lose control and did not want to risk another accident.


This is true, especially for full-sized horses, and in most cases it is not a good idea because the horse can easily injure you if he spooks over top of you forward or sideways with the cart. In this case though I'd be concerned (as I know you were) that he might be injured in some way I hadn't seen yet so I wouldn't want him hauling my weight home unless I was sure he was sound. On the other hand, I'd want him hitched and working ASAP so the last thing he remembers is driving successfully. Thus the hitch-up-and-ground-drive approach! If he seemed fine I'd eventually climb back in. If he was sore, well, you can always unhitch but hauling the empty cart probably isn't much worse than walking home without it. Sometimes you have to look at the factors involved, look at what you want to accomplish and trust your gut. As long as you're aware of the risks involved it's a personal decision.





Leia


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## wingnut (Nov 15, 2010)

How awful for you both



I'm glad you're both okay despite the trauma inflicted.

As the owner of three dogs that we use invisible fencing to keep them in our yard, it is too often the case that people don't fully train their dogs or don't recognize that their particular dog is NOT a good fit for the system. We never had a problem with our dogs leaving our yard (despite hundreds of temptations coming their way!!) until we got our Border Collie mix last year. She has very thick fur and is able to tolerate the minimal sting of the fence system while literally jumping over it.

She doesn't do it every day but we are aware that she can't simply be let out for unlimited time with no supervision like we could our other two dogs.

That dog who came after you should never be trusted with that fencing system again.


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## JMS Miniatures (Nov 15, 2010)

The problem with invisible fences is if the dogs just don't care about getting shocked and go out and do what they want to do they will go right thru. My parents have once and my 2 older dogs that have passed they wouldn't even go thru. However the main problem that my parents have currently with my aussie dog is his hair is so thick that he just won't feel it, so we have to keep his hair cut around the collar.

I think invisible fences are fine, and unfortuantly that dog needs something better to fence him in. If this was the first incident hopefully the owners will find a new way asap. Cause that dog knows he can do it again. If this has been multiple incidents then yeah its no exusce and the owners need to be responsible.


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## uwharrie (Nov 17, 2010)

Well I was finally able to hitch Frosty back up today and see how he would react. I decided to drive him in the pasture since it was secure. I hitched him up and lead him out. He was calm and relaxed so I hopped in. Drove like he always did. I "tested" him a bit by making him drive close to the dog yard, Both the big dogs take great pleasure in running the fence and barking like heck.

At first he was a little rattled but settled down when ask to.

I think I will drive him in the pasture a few more days and push the dog proofing with my own dogs at the fence before taking him back out.

Overall I think he is fine despite the incident. Thank goodness!


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## Cavallini Farms (Nov 21, 2010)

Thank goodness!


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## LazyRanch (Dec 2, 2010)

Hugs to Frosty and to you!We also have a leash law - which, I believe is interpreted as "Leash? LEASH??! We don't need no stinking LEASH!!"Of course, in AZ we can legally carry a gun and shoot anything that attacks livestock. I cannot bring myself to do this as I hate visiting the shame of stupid master on the dogs, but a long lashed whip might come in handy.

Glad you two are ok, and Frosty is driving happily.


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## uwharrie (Dec 2, 2010)

Have been meaning to updated. Seems Frosty is not as unscathed as I had hoped. I hitched him up over thanksgiving and he was much more uptight than before. So much so I had to put my dogs up, so I know I need to do a ton more dog proofing. He was jumping and skitish but I was able to get him settled quickly. Our neighbor has a small dog that has hung out with the horses since he was a little pup. He likes to follow or ride in the cart when I drive in the pasture. Frosty was even a little shy with him. The good thing was I was able to get him to work thru it.

I am not too worried that he will not again be a solid little horse but I can tell we are going to have to work thru it. Of course with the time change and it being almost dark when I get home there will not be much chance of working till early spring.


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## sedeh (Dec 2, 2010)

What a scarey situation! I'm so glad that Frosty and you didn't get hurt badly...physically at least! I hate people that don't keep their dogs fenced in. We have neighbors that just let their dogs roam.



Hopefully he'll be okay again back in cart. Good luck!


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## Taylor Richelle (Dec 2, 2010)

Just reading this story gives me goosebumps! I am so sorry you went through such a horrifying experience!! I am so relieved Frosty is alright!


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## MiLo Minis (Dec 2, 2010)

uwharrie said:


> Have been meaning to updated. Seems Frosty is not as unscathed as I had hoped. I hitched him up over thanksgiving and he was much more uptight than before. ...... I am not too worried that he will not again be a solid little horse but I can tell we are going to have to work thru it. Of course with the time change and it being almost dark when I get home there will not be much chance of working till early spring.


You really need to get on this now. With horses there is no such thing as time healing wounds. The longer you leave it the harder it will be to get him past it. Seems the longer horses have to reflect on stuff the worse that stuff gets! If you can set up some yard lights or something for yourself to see by and line drive him in the dark past your own dogs, I would do it! Horses see extraordinarily well in the dark so it isn't really a problem for them. Don't involve the cart until he is well settled in the lines.


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## RhineStone (Dec 2, 2010)

uwharrie said:


> I hitched him up over thanksgiving and he was much more uptight than before.


Lori is absolutely right. Another option is to find a facility with an indoor arena and "rent" it for an hour or two. If you intend on this horse to drive productively in the future, it can't be just a once in a while thing, especially after a wreck. It's like failing a math exam and not doing another problem for 6 mo. or being in a car accident and not getting back into another car. The longer it waits, the worse it gets.

In regards to the above quote, make sure that YOU are not more uptight than before either. Yes, you can tell yourself that you are calm, but are you really? Horses can sense these things and their handlers may not even realize that they are giving them these vibes. It might also be helpful for you to take some lessons with other horses, too, regardless of your experience level (I don't know how experienced you are). You can always learn new things that you can apply to your own driving.

Myrna


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## uwharrie (Dec 2, 2010)

No indoor arenas, heck not even any rings in my area. closest place to haul is a club members farm an hour away. We will be constructing a ring after the first of the year but for now I will have to make due with what we have which is the pasture. ( and even if the horse can see well in the dark I cannot and no way to light the area at this point)

I am not really worried that not driving him every day is going to hurt. I know it would be best if I could but work and lack of daylight just will not let that happen right now. This is a horse who was not driven for several years and after only a couple of months back in harness was winning obsticle classes. He has a good brain and knows how to think thru things.

I did not mean by saying he was not as relaxed the second time as the first that I thought he was going to be a problem, only that it made me realise he needed a bit more confidence re-building than I first thought.


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## Katiean (Dec 2, 2010)

uwharrie said:


> I had thought about hooking him back up there and leading him back but was taught that being on the ground with a hooked cart is an easy way to lose control and did not want to risk another accident. I do plan to hook him back up at the house this week, the time change has made it hard due to working till almost dark. if nothing else I will hook him and drive in the paddock even if it is dark.
> 
> The good thing is he did not seem to bothered by the whole thing, and surprising to me I am not afraid to drive again. I think that is due to the fact I came out of it fairly unscathed.


This happened to a gelding that I was training. I let the owner take him out and this dog ran out and bit the horse. The dog evidently came out barking because if any dog barked he would freak out even just in a halter. I worked with the horse for a few months longer. He was never a safe driving horse again.


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## R Whiteman (Dec 5, 2010)

Does your state have a "Dangerous Dog " law? You did the right thing by reporting this incident. I think I would send them a letter outlining the damages that where caused by their dog being on a public street. Our state has a small claims civil action that can go up to $5000.00. It is tough when they are neighbors.

Years ago I had a friend who had a similar problem. He made many attempts to convince his neighbors to build a fence to contain several dogs. One day he contacted a local sporting goods store and purchased a spray bottle and a large bottle of "Skunk Scent". The smell is contained in the bottle until applied. The dogs were slow learners and it took several applications before he got the desired results.

Should anyone wish to try this. Caution! My friend advises this spray does not discriminate and it works equally well of all objects living or not. It behooves those operating the spray bottle to spray down wind.

Ron


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