# Shetland Convention info



## txminipinto

I know about the new Congress location (










) - can you feel my excitement?



I know we all have our own reasons why we wanted to move to certain locations, but it's never going to get bigger until it's more accessible to ALL shetland owners.

Anyway, moving on........

Was anyone present for my rule proposal on the Over division for Foundations? I was unfortunately, unable to attend due to financial reasons and sent some supporters for me. I guess I can use my 2008 Congress money for Convention next year.





Also, what happened with the rule proposal to do away with walk throus on Hunter, Jumper, and Obstacle classes?


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

If your proposal was to allow the foundation height to go up to 46 in for showing or something close to that... I dont have my notes in front of me.. then it failed

I do believe that we will still have walk thrus but I can not tell you 100 percent on that one till I go outside and get my notes and it is COLD out there lol


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## mininik

I don't know about the rest, but have to say no kidding on the location. There's no way we'll be going to Congress so long as it's so far away...


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## Leeana

Wait a sec, Carin your not going to Congress next year?


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## txminipinto

Leeana said:


> Wait a sec, Carin your not going to Congress next year?


Leeana,

It's too far in the future right now to commit either way. It will depend on client wishes. It's definately a trip that I can not foot on my bill alone that's for sure! However, if there are any willing parties that would like to give charitble donations to the "Pondering Oaks at Congress Foundation", I will gladly set up a trust fund.





I can assure you that I will be at Pinto World and AMHR Nationals though. Since they are centrally located events.........


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## Ponygirl

Hey!! Does anybody know if there are any surprises waiting for us after convention like there were for the last 2 years in a row???? Remember???? Last year they raised the price of the prefix/suffix for farm names from $20 to $200.....yikes!!!

And, the year before that they closed the AMHR hardship registry with hardly any notice....

Very disappointed that the Congress is going to be so far away for so many of us southerners, northeners and more so for the westerners........ disappointing, also, that the arena is not air conditioned....sigh

Carin...sorry to hear that your Foundation Over Division show proposal seems to have failed.....it was a good proposal.....send it in again for next year!!!!!


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## hhpminis

They will still be doing walk throughs for Youth and PMC classes.

As far as Congress, it is about 2000 miles for me to go. I figure, once you travel 3 days what is a few more hours. It really is only about 200 more miles for us. I am really going to try to make this my first congress. We'll see how the year goes.


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

the difference between Lincoln NE and Terre Haute IN is about 600 miles making it just over 1800 miles to Congress but if all goes according to my plans (like that ever happens) perhaps Raven will be going to Congress with a new pony


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## kaykay

does anyone know is congress going to stay in this location?

After looking at the site it seems identical to Gordyville only it has air in the bathrooms and office. I guess its better then no air anywhere LOL.

Lisa I so hope you get to make it! It really is sooo much fun!

Hoping to be there with jet again and our homegrown filly tease


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## Leeana

It's only about a 2 hour difference for us from going to gordyville to going to Terre Haute. Gordyville was about a 6 hour drive and Terre Haute is a little over 4 hours, how will i ever survive ?????





I am extremely excited for congress next year and to try out this new show grounds. Even if they had moved it to Lincoln NE i still would have went, which still is only about a 13 hour drive. I'll support whatever decision the board members make, but i can understand most not wanting to make the 4 day trip.

Lisa you have to go







. We'll be there agian with Royal and Kitty


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## JourneysEnd

Carin,

I was present at all meetings and the motion to elimate walk-thoughs was defeated by a majority in every meeting including the Stewards meeting.

If your motion was raising the height on Foundation Shetlands, it was defeated.

Vickie


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## Belinda

Hi Carin,

Yes as I told you I would get it presented



, There was discussion mostly againist it !! I don't believe one person talked on the side for it , wish you had of been there. but I do understand the cost.

Let us Give this In. location a chance before we tear it apart !!



It is a Brand new place and they gave us a heck of a price and put a cap on it so we know exactly how much it will cost at the max.. No guessing there.. Also Carin I looked the mileage up for you trip and to Lincoln it says..



> Iola, TX US Revise | New Directions
> 
> Lincoln, NE US Revise | New Directions
> 
> Total Est. Time: 12 hours, 27 minutes
> 
> Total Est. Distance: 803.30 miles
> 
> Online Offers
> 
> Lincoln Hotels
> 
> Schools in Nebraska
> 
> Lincoln Real Estate
> 
> Add Another Stop to Your Route!
> 
> Iola, TX US Revise | New Directions
> 
> Cloverdale, IN US Revise | New Directions
> 
> Total Est. Time: 15 hours, 2 minutes
> 
> Total Est. Distance: 963.91 miles


So it is a 160 miles difference.. So maybe we can all try and make it a good place. I thought long and hard before I voted, but like I have said from the start the $$ would make the decision .

Once again the judges are , please remember these judges have to be contacted and accept before this is official.. Thanks

Larry Thurber

Lee Crutchfield

Arlene Faulk

Alternate-------Gary Eds..


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## SirenFarms

where is congress exactly? i never found out


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## hhpminis

Siren;

It is Cloverdale, Indiana


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## SirenFarms

yea wayyyyyyyy to far away im farther down than Carin. im at the very tip of texas by the gulf of mexico


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## hhpminis

I realize it is a long drive for some but if we really have a desire to go, we have time to figure out a plan and save up some money. Ask those that travel long distances how they do it and routes they take, etc.

Maybe someone within your area wants to go as well and you can combine a trailer, share the driving and expenses.

When we go to Nationals, Worlds or any other show that is 28-30 hours for us to drive, we stop at night at horse hotels, take the horses off the trailer. They get a good night sleep and feel rested when we load up the next morning. They arrive rested, healthy, and in good condition.

We keep a bucket of water in front of them while driving and keep them occupied with several small meals throughout the day.

There truly are ways to make this work and time to figure a plan if you want to go.


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## disneyhorse

Cloverdale, IN is 2,022 miles (29 hours not pulling a trailer).

Lincoln, NE is 1,490 miles (21 hours not pulling a trailer).

I will have to think long and hard before asking my young ponies to haul 4,000+ miles and be expected to look and perform at their best...

So disappointing that they make Congress so unfriendly for those who are new, just because we happen to live "not in the heart of old Shetland country".

As much as I would love to see the breed flourish... I hope somehow (poor attendance or something) makes them think for 2009 about a more centrally located area.

I will have to weigh this carefully... I am desperately trying to get into the breed and haven't minded driving as far as Oklahoma in the past for the miniatures... but every other breed that my friends show have their Nationals in central parts of the country. None of this "old timer favoritism" stuff. Sheesh.

Andrea


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

Speaking of finding rides Annette I hope your pony string isnt to big LOL we have not found the pony yet but I am hoping sometime before July we will.



Really all in all Congress is a bit easier for us to work with just being the time of year and not worrying about Raven missing so much school just as it is starting so we are going to do our best to be there and if we dont make it this year it isnt the location it is simply not having found the "right" pony yet

If you plan layovers to let them rest it really isnt that big of a deal even on the younger horses I mean come on now many of the top competitors in the equine world from jumpers, hunters, dressage horses and cutting horses ect travel cross country as a routine part of there jobs. so I am sure our minis/and ponies can do the same. Only differene is for there owners that is there job to so they dont have to worry so much about time off lol


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## disneyhorse

Yeah Lisa... and those cutters and jumpers and dressage riders are going for HUGE purses and futurity monies, too!!!

Can't say there's much to showing the minis and ponies except for spending your entire year's worth of vacation hours and then thousands of dollars on top of that... just to GO and hope for a ribbon or two!





Andrea


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## kaykay

Andrea I totally understand you and others being frustrated. But I understand the other side too. How can the registry turn their back on the very farms that kept the Shetlands going for all these years? Do you make the minority happy or the majority? Its a tough call for sure. And I still believe no matter where you put it a lot of people wont be happy. There is just no way to make everyone happy.

I will say my futurity and ammy checks for showing at Congress were quite large. I honestly had no idea that the checks were that nice and I was one happy camper when I got them! And I only showed one pony


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## SweetOpal

Well while it is 2,000 miles (one way) for me and yes Lincoln would have been closer, you can bet your butts that you will have to move it a little further than 700 miles to get rid of me! I will be there will bells on, the trailer is packed!!!! I hauled them that far last year and they had no problem being ready to show and do thier best!

The only thing that I wasn't impressed with was the lyme stalls, but you can bet I will live with it. I will either see you all there or I will tell you all about it when I return!

Jennifer


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## Leeana

SweetOpal said:


> Well while it is 2,000 miles (one way) for me and yes Lincoln would have been closer, you can bet your butts that you will have to move it a little further than 700 miles to get rid of me! I will be there will bells on, the trailer is packed!!!! I hauled them that far last year and they had no problem being ready to show and do thier best!
> 
> The only thing that I wasn't impressed with was the lyme stalls, but you can bet I will live with it. I will either see you all there or I will tell you all about it when I return!
> 
> Jennifer


You go girl


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## disneyhorse

Jennifer is one dedicated person... no one will ever deny that





Andrea


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## Karen S

The other part of the Congress equation was the World Show (by the way Belinda...do you have the World Show Dates and the Miniature Nationals Dates?)...Those pony people that will showing at Worlds will only have (2) two days between Worlds and Congress. If the show had been held at Lincoln...we were told that the Modern's would not be there at Congress and there wasn't enought turn-around time.

Karen


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## Leeana

> Karen S Posted Today, 07:19 AM The other part of the Congress equation was the World Show (by the way Belinda...do you have the World Show Dates and the Miniature Nationals Dates?)...Those pony people that will showing at Worlds will only have (2) two days between Worlds and Congress. If the show had been held at Lincoln...we were told that the Modern's would not be there at Congress and there wasn't enought turn-around time.
> 
> Karen


Two days? The reason i didnt attend the world show last year was because it was so close to congress and even then it was like a week or so before congress. I really was wanting to do the world show agian next year but even with taking just two horses to congress, there is no way i could get home and pack and clip even just two horses in two days



. I guess we'll have to see what next year bring. I was really hoping they would move ohio worlds farther away from the congress dates.


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## txminipinto

Leeana,

The Ohio World Show is not run by the registry, therefore, we can not set the dates on that show. The only shows we have control over is Nationals and Congress.

Yes, Belinda, thank you for presenting my proposal. While I appreciate your time, I did hear it was not read in it's entirety. For those who want to know, my proposal was not to JUST raise the height of the Foundations to match ALL shetlands. I had broken the height divisions (Under and Over), EXACTLY like the Classic classes. While it would have added more classes to the show bills and more expense(and time) to the shows in providing awards for those additional classes, it also would have added increased potential income for breeders who have over 42" Foundation ponies(a new, showable, market) as well as the trainers who could add those ponies to their show string. Unfortunately, the Foundation debate will continue regardless of height UNTIL judges pick according to TYPE.

I also heard that the Congress location in Cloverdale was the ONLY one presented. Makes it kinda of hard to make an informed choice for the entire registry with only one option.



Leeana said:


> Karen S Posted Today, 07:19 AM The other part of the Congress equation was the World Show (by the way Belinda...do you have the World Show Dates and the Miniature Nationals Dates?)...Those pony people that will showing at Worlds will only have (2) two days between Worlds and Congress. If the show had been held at Lincoln...we were told that the Modern's would not be there at Congress and there wasn't enought turn-around time.
> 
> Karen
> 
> 
> 
> Two days? The reason i didnt attend the world show last year was because it was so close to congress and even then it was like a week or so before congress. I really was wanting to do the world show agian next year but even with taking just two horses to congress, there is no way i could get home and pack and clip even just two horses in two days
> 
> 
> 
> . I guess we'll have to see what next year bring. I was really hoping they would move ohio worlds farther away from the congress dates.
Click to expand...


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## ownedbyapony

Hi Carin,

I think the information you received regarding the presented sites was incorrect. There were several sites presented to the board on Saturday afternoon.

Lincol, NE - presented by Tracy Slagle

Cloverdale, IN - presented by Bud Stephenson

Du Quoin, IL - presented by Doloris Williams

Spring field, OH - presented by Bud Stephenson

The sites were all presented and discussed by the board. The discussion covered availables stall, amenities etc.. but the most talked about aspect of ALL of the sites was COST.

There was no discussion regarding people who would come vs people who would not. From a bystanders view it was totally decided on ability to meet our #'s and our pocket book.

Amber


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## Ponygirl

OH! Gosh, Carin, I sure hope you are wrong about Cloverdale being the only location presented at the meeting.......that just wouldn't be right, no matter what the reasoning behind it.......


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

I remember them saying there would be an over and under division in the Foundation and raising the heights. I also remember there was one person who was for it pretty much the rest of the room against it. (I do think a couple voted for it but my notes are not right here)

More then one congress location was discussed in fact the NE person who was talking about it got quite detailed - I left the room for a couple minutes and came back and she was still answering questions ~ But really the bottom line is maybe more were presented to the board as it was not a general membership vote

I will say the one thing I dont understand is why the propsoals in there entirety are not posted on the web site before convention that way everyone can say they saw it and knew what was being voted on and could either go to convention or not depending on how important the issue was to them ? I know they are published in the Journal but just seems to me we could use the web site for stuff like this as well

Just thinking we have the web site and we pay for it already(the registry one) why not use it and then everyone would feel there proposals were seen as they were written


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## Belinda

Carin

I DID present your proposal as it was submitted !! I told you when you submitted it we had voted on that the last 2 or 3 yrs and every year it is the same but that I would present it !!! That is what I am suppose to do



So whoever told you it was not submitted in the form it was sent in is INCORRECT !! I will say I did not read all the names on the petition you had signed as that is not part of the proposal..

I have a phone number and email if you would like to discuss this with me ..


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## hhpminis

Carin,

I did hear your proposal in its entirety. It may have had a bit of a twist from the last proposals about the same thing but basically it was the same and it was turned down. There were a couple that voted for it, the rest of the group in the committee meeting voted it down.

Here is why I voted it down. It may or may not be the same reason as others. And nothing personal, just my opinion on the matter.

We have standards within the breed. These standards are there for a reason. Not every animal we have born on our property is going to fit those standards. The object is to breed within those standards, not make new standards to fit what we are breeding and creating divisions for them to show in.

Lets face it, not all horses are show horses. A horse may be born of foundation type but is 46 inches tall. If it has too much bone to show with the classics, than sell it as a pet. There is a huge market for well behaved childrens ponies.

My barn is full of foundation certified shetlands that are 38 inches or under. They also are not what I consider "foundation" type. Showing them against the tall classics would be really hard to do as they will look like midgets out there.

So if we are going to do this with the foundation, then lets make a classic class for under 38". I am not trying to be sarcastic, and sorry if it sounds that way, but we cannot create show divisions for every possible scenario that we may have in our barn or future barns. We would have to have 5 day shows.


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## txminipinto

Belinda,

I stand corrected that you presented my proposal in it's entirety. That's part of the problem with staying home AND not getting the Journal before the convention (or at all at this time). Regarding the location of Congress, if a cheaper arena had submitted a bid from California or Florida, I highly doubt that the Congress would be moved there solely on cost. Cost is not the only reason for our Congress location. Its just very sad that we try so hard to promote the shetland (I even take mine to fairs and such to promote the breed) yet our National show isn't located to attract the smaller exhibitor who is the one buying the shetlands from the breeders. I'll probably be there next year regardless of location because of the time and money I've invested in my stock, but it's going to be a hard sell to clients who are looking at the mileage(Texas regular fuel is at $3.00/gal, I shudder to see what it is in August).

As far as "creating" show divisions and classes, let's talk about the western division, the ASPR, and the National show pony. All newly created. At least my "create a class" effort is designed to promote those taller foundation bred ponies that deserve a place to be shown (I will ad that I don't own nor do I have any that fit the TYPE for this class). Funny, kinda sounds like creating a place for those "over" minis. That seemed to work out in the end.

Anyway, done beating my dead horse



. Time to prepare for next year.


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## Sharron

Hi Carin

A couple of things to clear up...First congratulations on being named by Jason Prince the head of the Classic Sweepstakes committee...I must say if you had known prior to being named that you were going to be named, that you should have been duty bound to be at the Convention so everyone would have known you and you could have spoken about your plans, and the direction you would be taking the Sweepstakes.

Secondly, Belinda STRESSED to all area V members that they needed to attend the Board meeting, to hear what was proposed and how it was done for the final decision...Cloverdale WAS NOT the only facility that was proposed, as Tracy Slagle gave an indepth report on the Lincoln Facility, and Bud Stevens also gave two in depth reports. One on the Springfield facility, and one on the Cloverdale Facility, as one presented at the board meeting for DuQuoin IL... There was LOTS of discussion on the various sites not only by those attending the different committee meetings, but also the board...the bottom line was COST factor, not who would attend, or where they were located...If someone really WANTS to attend a Congress, then they will A. Budget to get there, B find someone to travel with and share expenses, or C make arrangements with someone else to take their horse and present it...as the old saying goes....where there is a will there is a way!!! I was present at all the meetings, and the Congress locations were discussed at length, with presentations done for each location except Du Quoin IL, that was presented at the board meeting. It is too bad that no-one but Karen and I saw fit to attend the Board meeting to "get the facts" and knew what went on, saw the indepth discussion, and were able to see the reasoning behind the decisions...All board meetings except a couple are open to any member that wants to sit in and actually see the "workings" of our organization...It is VERY educational, for those that really want the facts...those attending are not allowed to "talk" for or against any issues, but it does let you see how your representatives vote for their area...

All facts that were presented to the board and those that were at the committee meetings were well done, and were very concise.

Sharron


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## Sharron

txminipinto said:


> Belinda,


WHOA wait a minute Carin...The ASPR division is NOT a newly created division...it has been in existence for 10 years...I don't call that newly created...what has been newly created is a committee is willing to work at promoting the division, and getting some of those ponies put before the public, with promotion, and incentives to own and show an American Show Pony...we are a forward thinking group that are willing to commit and put our money where our mouths are, and present this division to the rest of the pony buying public. Trying to "live down" the sordid reputation ( which I might add is un-deserving) that the Show pony division, and ALL Shetlands for that matter suffer from.

The only newly created division is the NSPR, and unfortunately they are going to go through the same "growing pains" as the ASPR division has gone through these past 10 years. Hopefully now however the American Show Ponies will begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Sharron


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## txminipinto

Sharron said:


> Hi Carin
> 
> A couple of things to clear up...First congratulations on being named by Jason Prince the head of the Classic Sweepstakes committee...I must say if you had known prior to being named that you were going to be named, that you should have been duty bound to be at the Convention so everyone would have known you and you could have spoken about your plans, and the direction you would be taking the Sweepstakes.
> 
> Sharron


Sharron,

Yes, I had known about the Classic Sweepstakes as I had offered Jason to help him (or take it) at Congress. Unfortunately, duty bound or not, I have bills to pay and I could not financially afford to make the $1000 trip to Convention. Attending 3 national level shows and moving an entire farm(including building a brand new barn and building fence on completely virgin soil) tends to have its financial set backs. I do not apologize for putting my financial situation first. However, if anyone wants to personally contact me about my plans for the Classic Sweepstakes I gladly and openly take all suggestions privately.


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## alongman

txminipinto said:


> Unfortunately, the Foundation debate will continue regardless of height UNTIL judges pick according to TYPE.


Hold on a second! Let me address this area briefly. First, I do judge the Foundation division as well as every other division based on the rules that are presented to me and the standard that is set forth by EVERYONE. The breeders are equally responsible for breeding the "extreme" Foundation horses as well as the trainers'/exhibitors' who bring them out and show them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "the judges will either love them or dump them". That's a heck of a position to put the judges' in. If you know that your animal doesn't meet the standard for the division - PUT IT IN THE CORRECT ONE!!!!!

Let me pose this to you, since judging from the rail is EASY. I have three animals in my Foundation class - 2 are more "foundation type" but are conformationally not equivalent (with noticeable faults) to the third who is "less foundation type". Would you rather I place the animals with faults first because they are the most "foundation looking"? If so, propse that in the rules for 2009. It will make judging a heck of a lot easier! I can be told to be a trained monkey, but I refuse to be held responsible for picking horses that I don't feel are quality.

We had a long discussion in the Judges' Clinic regarding this very issue. I love to think that the opinion of myself and my colleagues who judge is influencing the ENTIRE breed - we are simply providing our opinion of the horses presented to us on a particular day.

I would be happy to discuss this issue with anyone who cares to PM.


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## kaykay

HI Adam

I was told in 2006 after convention that judges were told that any pony showing off type (wrong class) should not be placed and should be given the gate to discourage people from showing off type.

But you are saying type doesnt matter if one horse is more correct? Im so confused!

Thanks

Kay


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

I didnt read he said type doesnt matter I read (and I am clueless and still learning this pony stuff)

that he is meaning something like this...

3 horses in foundation

Horse A- in type but horrible hind end- glaring faults not subtle

Horse B- in type but say toes out, jug head and horrible neck set- glaring faults not subtle

Horse C- Not in type more classic in type however also is the without a doubt more correct horse all the way around perhaps with a subtle fault

Would you prefer judges picked horse A or B over C even though C is the OBVIOUS more correct horse is

kinda how I am reading his post.

It is a interesting question and again I will say I am not yet a pony person I am a want-a-be for the time being


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## kaykay

in a perfect world the best horse would always be the one that wins

My point though if there is no penalty for showing off type then how can you ever stop it?

Knowing what Adam posted I can now see why people show in the wrong class. Does that make sense?

While I would like the most correct to win I do think they should also fit the type for the class they are showing in. Otherwise what is the point of having different classes/divisions? If type doesnt matter then we should show like miniatures and just divide them up by size?

Kay


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## alongman

Kay - you are correct! A horse showing in the "wrong class" can be excused and placed in the correct class. HOWEVER, you know as well as I do, that often the "correct" class has already been shown and the horse is now not showing at the show, period. That's a great way to get a lot of people upset with you (from a judging perspective). So, its a dilema, do you place the horse, excuse the horse or WHAT?! Believe me, there was a lot of discussion at the Judges' Clinic. We don't want to turn people away - in fact, quite the opposite, we want to keep people showing and attract new people. At the same time, we don't want to blatently place off-type horses. Believe me, it's not an easy decision.

Lisa - You saw it exactly like I was hoping! This is often the case. I was asked to judge the horses in the class based on the standards presented in the rulebook. However, the rulebook is often deliberately vague in some areas making this a very gray area. It's not gray just for the judges, but also for the exhibitors as well. Some honestly don't know which class to enter their animal in. If that's the case, then I'd be happy to direct them how I see the most appropriate fit. BUT, some exhibitors don't want any opinion other than the placing - darned if you do, darned if you don't.

One of my peers termed it probably the best - judging is much like being the PR person for the organization. You have to try to make everyone happy while taking all the blame. I'm only human - I do make mistakes, but we all do. There are times that I look back on a class and see something that would have changed my opinion, but it is ONLY my opinion on that particular day. It is not the basis of the entire breed, nor would I expect someone to change their entire program based on one show or placing.


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## kaykay

Thanks for answering Adam. I do know what a tough position the judges are in




!!

But dont you really think that if someone showing in the wrong class just got the gate (doesnt even have to be excused) they would stop doing it? Or maybe I am naive LOL. that could definitely be!!!


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## alongman

Kay -

People have very fragile egos. All it takes is one comment to make someone question their involvement. Throw in the negativity heard from seasoned exhibitors (especially if they don't agree with the placings) and it is questioned even more. I have seen it here. New people asking whether or not it's worth it. Believe me, IT IS! I love every aspect of the horse shows from judging to showing to everything in between (cleaning barn included).

What I'm saying, is it is easy for people to place blame when things don't go exactly as they seem. Whether that be a Classic showing in a Foundation class and placing, whether that be the 35" mini showing in the 34" class. MY JOB IS TO JUDGE THE HORSES IN FRONT OF ME! I look at the horses, look at the standards and make an educated opinion. If people are upset because an off-type horse was in the class or one that didn't meet some other standard, then that falls back on the exhibitors, not ONLY the judges!

To clarify - yes, an off-type horse can and should be penalized. BUT, that doesn't necessarily mean that it won't place. Here is the system I use to judge, maybe it will help with my explanation.

Let me also say here that many of the horses showing are not BLATENTLY off-type, but questionable. So there is some discrepency there.

When each horse enters the class, it is given a score of 10. I break the horse down into parts (head, neck, shoulder, chest, barrel, rear, topline, legs, movement (in shetlands), level of brightness and overall appearance based on the standard). For each thing, the horse can loose a point(s).

If a "questionable" horse comes in the ring - I can use my own mare as an example. She is foundation papered, but EXTREME for a foundation. Even if the judges drop a couple of points (lets say she now gets an 8) due to her level of extremeness, she is still quite possibly better than some of the other animals in the class (or possibly all of them based on the class). Since she is questionable, she can still technically place right?!

The rest of the class places themselves based on their points "lost" during their showing. Every horse starts the class on equal terms and loses points throughout the class.


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## kaykay

Adam thanks so much again for taking time to answer my questions!! (maybe I should have done a new thread) I am so fascinated by seeing it from a different point of view. Wish you lived closer and we could have coffee and I could really pick your brain LOL.

For sure I understand on the questionable ones, because there truly are ones that fall between.


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## alongman

Go ahead.....I love to answer questions and explain. I would so much rather have people talk to me to find out why I feel the way I do (in or out of the ring) as opposed to making snide comments. Feel free to PM me if you want, and my phone is always on....


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## Lmequine

Thanks for sharing your judging system with us Adam. I think by breaking down into points how you look at a pony that makes is easier for an exhibitor to know what is going through the judges mind. I show a good many foundation ponies. For the most part they do well. I have some that do push the extreme for foundation type but when put next to the winning classics they certainly carry more bone and less extreme necks, etc. I have shown some VERY foundation type ponies this season that have excellent conformation and those ponies have by in large WON their classes and many judges have told me "thank you" for bringing up a nice foundation to judge that meets type and has great conformation.

For those of you with true foundation ponies, please continue to bring them to the shows so the judges DO have a choice in the class. Extremes will continue to be shown in all classes because we all see things differently. What is average in my barn may be seen as extreme to others and vise-a-versa. Foundations seem to get the most talk about "showing off type" but I have seen extremes in classics and modern pleasures ponies all season. I have seen judges place those very beautiful animals down in a class because of being extreme. I was told early in the season one of the yearling foundation ponies I was hauling was too extreme by a judge. I moved this pony up to the classic division.

I have hauled 20 different ponies to 18 shows across 8 states this season. I have been showing Shetlands since 1999. I can say overall this season is the best judging I have seen especially in the modern pleasure and foundation divisions. Judges seem to be more comfortable in picking the correct type and penalizing those that are off type. Things are getting better eventhough to some it may not seem that way to some.


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## Lmequine

Karen S said:


> The other part of the Congress equation was the World Show (by the way Belinda...do you have the World Show Dates and the Miniature Nationals Dates?)...Those pony people that will showing at Worlds will only have (2) two days between Worlds and Congress. If the show had been held at Lincoln...we were told that the Modern's would not be there at Congress and there wasn't enought turn-around time.
> 
> Karen


Last year there was also only two days between the World show and Congress according to the dates listed in the Journal.


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## alongman

Leah -

First, thank you for coming and bringing out the ponies you did! I had the pleasure of judging Leahs' show string and she presents some very very nice animals. I love, however, that you comment that you note some of your animals are extreme for their division. It's important as exhibitors to recognize that fact - if you don't place as well as you hoped, it may be for that reason. Second, thank you for noting that the only way the judges can become more confident and have the choice to pick "on type" horses is IF THEY ARE THERE!!!!

Can I also share a point? I think that some people have decided that Foundations are somehow lesser quality than the Classics of today. I overheard several people talking about "putting their horses in the Foundation classes as the Classic classes were just too tough." I think that is a HUGE misconception. There are differences, yes! Lesser quality, NO NO NO!!!!


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## Lmequine

Thank you for the nice comments. I was lucky to have a very nice showstring for this season and to have ponies of all types showing. I too am starting to hear from other breeders and exhibitors that foundation ponies are not the way to go, they are too course and chunky and not the way the breed should go breeding wise and are of less quality. They all seem to think that tons of refinement and lots of action at the trot is what Shetlands are all about. MANY of my foundation and even classic halter show ponies go on to careers as RIDING ponies. Lots of trot and lots of refinement really equals a bad ride!

I hall of famed a pony this year as a modern pleasure. He is foundation sealed and met the height requirements. He was shown by his TYPE and not by his papers. Trainers and owners need to learn the types and show accordingly. As an exhibitor if you place low in a class and do not understand why then stick around to the end of the show and ask the judge. I have learned so much by doing that and by also watching the other classes at the shows. Granted we are not all going to agree with every judge but keep an open mind when you go to a show, realize that you are paying for one person's educated OPINION for that day only against the competition that was in your class.

Now all of that said I do not know how we got so far away from Convention news and onto Shetland type! But I have enjoyed the discussion.


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## dmk

ownedbyapony said:


> Hi Carin,
> 
> I think the information you received regarding the presented sites was incorrect. There were several sites presented to the board on Saturday afternoon.


Actually NO her information was not incorrect. The information I relayed to Carin is that the board voted on ONE location - for or against. The other locations were discussed.

Michelle



Belinda said:


> Hi Carin,
> 
> Yes as I told you I would get it presented
> 
> 
> 
> , There was discussion mostly againist it !! I don't believe one person talked on the side for it ,


Belinda

Jim Curry stood up and did speak for the idea or at least points he could see as positive. I was in the meeting and I do not recall anyone reading the 3 page proposal in its entirety. I do recall the discussion and that the proposal was presented. Carin asked me if the ENTIRE proposal was read and I do believe it was read exactly as written . . . at least according to the information I had from Carin. I did not see the proposal myself so I can't speak to that - only answered what I was asked.

Michelle



ownedbyapony said:


> There was no discussion regarding people who would come vs people who would not. From a bystanders view it was totally decided on ability to meet our #'s and our pocket book.
> 
> Amber


To me this seems paradox. The #'s and the pocketbook will BOTH be affected if the organization continues to move the Congress farther EAST.

Michelle



Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis said:


> I will say the one thing I dont understand is why the propsoals in there entirety are not posted on the web site before convention that way everyone can say they saw it and knew what was being voted on and could either go to convention or not depending on how important the issue was to them ? I know they are published in the Journal but just seems to me we could use the web site for stuff like this as well
> 
> Just thinking we have the web site and we pay for it already(the registry one) why not use it and then everyone would feel there proposals were seen as they were written


Lisa I must agree with you on this one. It was quite evident in the meetings that at times there was mass confusion over what was being discussed - on which side to vote (for or against) because of how the proposal was worded and many times there was the general air of wanting to get on with it - so to speak. Scheduling is an issue so there is not always time to discuss topics fully. There MUST be a better way in order to allow us to make more informed choices on certain issues.

Michelle


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## ownedbyapony

Michelle,

Here is the quote from Carin that I responded to. I didn't know that you had been the source of Carin's information and just responded to her initial post.

Carin's quote:

I also heard that the Congress location in Cloverdale was the ONLY one presented. Makes it kinda of hard to make an informed choice for the entire registry with only one option.

I answered that there were several sites "presented" to the board and discussed. I was in the meeting and listened to ALL of the presentations. Tracy Slagle "presented" the Lincoln site to the board. Doloris "presented" the Duquoin site to the board and Bud "presented" the Indiana and Ohio sites to the board.

Your quote:

Actually NO her information was not incorrect. The information I relayed to Carin is that the board voted on ONE location - for or against. The other locations were discussed.

You are correct in the fact that the board voted on 1 location after a motion was received to "Move the Congress location to Indiana", all sites were "presented" and discussed. At any time prior to the nomination to move to Indiana a nomination to move to Lincoln or any other site could have been made. No such motion was introduced.

I was just clarifying with Carin that there were other sites "presented" to the board.

As to your quote:

To me this seems paradox. The #'s and the pocketbook will BOTH be affected if the organization continues to move the Congress farther EAST.

I understand your concern with the location being moved further East. Your trip is long. I have made the trip to Glen Rose several times in the past couple of years and I do not enjoy the drive. I do however, enjoy the show and will continue to travel to Texas. However, the move to Indiana is very close to the Rantoul mileage for people from the East and those from the South. I realize West Coast is an issue, but for that matter a move to Lincoln would be a concern for those on the East Coast or those from Florida (and we have as many from Florida as we have from Washington State). There is no way the board will be able to please everyone.

There was no talk about making the Indiana site a permanent location. I am sure the board will continue to entertain new sites and locations in the future.

Amber


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## dmk

ownedbyapony said:


> I answered that there were several sites "presented" to the board and discussed. I was in the meeting and listened to ALL of the presentations. Tracy Slagle "presented" the Lincoln site to the board. Doloris "presented" the Duquoin site to the board and Bud "presented" the Indiana and Ohio sites to the board.
> 
> You are correct in the fact that the board voted on 1 location after a motion was received to "Move the Congress location to Indiana", all sites were "presented" and discussed. At any time prior to the nomination to move to Indiana a nomination to move to Lincoln or any other site could have been made. No such motion was introduced.


I understand Amber - that is the reason I clarified it because many people seemed to be under the assumption the board voted AGAINST Lincoln, but I wanted people to understand there was never a motion regarding Lincoln as a possible facility. For the Lincoln site to be voted on, it would have required a board member to bring that to a vote - not someone simply presenting information or sitting in on the meeting. Isn't that correct?

I want to share some of my feelings and revisit something that I mentioned last night. I actually wrote this last evening, but decided to wait and post after I had some time to think about it. I do not want it to sound as if I want special consideration be given to one or the other locations because that is where I AM. In a way I do, but the location in Lincoln was still 13-14 hours away from me so that is not asking for much for MYSELF. And I do like Lincoln, but I could have settled easily for something more east than - but NOT THAT FAR east.

Three things actually:

#1 - In regard to Congress location and what was posted about the directors looking at the #'s & cost. I would like to clarify that I do NOT believe the directors need to sit down and discuss who will or won't come to Congress. That can never be a sure thing. Family obligations, illness and a multitude of other things might influence a person to travel the distance (whatever the mileage) to Congress in a particular year.

#2 - I asked in the OPEN MEETING when the proposals were being made WHAT the cost of the facility in Indiana would be. It was stated that they would rather NOT disclose that figure. The facility for Lincoln came in at around $34,000 (and is MUCH nicer & bigger (and air conditioned) than Gordyville). The Gordyville facility was renting for approx. $32,000. IF it is true the board set a cap of $25,000 for a facility, how did the Indiana facility JUST HAPPEN to come in for that figure?

Since the board set a cap of $25,000 and the board knew there were other proposals coming in from other member(s) (not board members) did they share the fact of the cap to those members submitting proposals? It certainly would have saved some people a lot of time and energy and made us feel less slighted. I have no problem if we're all on the same playing field, but it certainly didn't feel like that to me.

#3 - Maybe the numbers will be there in Indiana - maybe not. Maybe some people will think it is just too far. And that will affect the $$$$. When choosing a location for Congress I feel the board should have looked at where their bigger number of exhibitors are. Look at the numbers on the club website - go to show results and then ASPC results and choose to look at the numbers by show. Then look down that list and see the numbers of ponies showing throughout the season and where those shows are. Just an FYI - Glen Rose, TX in April had 93 ponies. In June they hosted the Area V show and had 110 ponies. Oregon Gold show had 84 ponies. The Corsicana, TX shows had 64 & 54 ponies. The Ada, OK shows had 48 & 49 ponies. THE WORLD SHOW in Columbus, OH hosted 119 ponies last July - 9 more ponies than our area show. Okay so maybe Lincoln wouldn't have been the choice but somewhere with a little more consideration given to somewhere much MORE reasonable to that population.

In conclusion (finally) - the Congress location is Cloverdale, Indiana in 2008 which I am most unhappy about & I shared that with Belinda before the vote. There are many other people in this area of the country that feel the same or at least that is what they indicated to me by their statements when they have heard the location. We all realize how long the travel is for people in Florida and California or other parts West. We all realize where the hub of the industry is, but some regard needs to be allowed for those numbers that are on the upswing in other areas of the country. This information *should * play a pretty significant part in the decision making when it comes to location. And this is the biggest FACT of them all - *If it is $$$ & #'s you want then at some point I feel that we must face the fact we must have a little concession on location.*


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## Belinda

> Since the board set a cap of $25,000 and the board knew there were other proposals coming in from other member(s) (not board members) did they share the fact of the cap to those members submitting proposals? It certainly would have saved some people a lot of time and energy and made us feel less slighted. I have no problem if we're all on the same playing field, but it certainly didn't feel like that to me.


Michelle ,

First let me clear something up about the price of the Facility.. *THE BORD DID NOT SET THE CAP * !! The Facility when they gave us their bid set "THEIR CAP AT $25,000 ". The board let me once again say did not set the Cap !

Next I sat here last night and one by one counted the exhibitors that showed at Congress. Here is what I came up with . Area's 1* 2*3* & 4 had 80 exhibitors.. Area 5 , 6, 7 & 8 had a total of 49 exhibitors.. Now this is actual people who owned horses at Congress, I do understand several, more tham likely had horses with trainers from other area's , Just as I train for people in Area 2 , and I know that Amber Trains for people in Area 5... There were two Directors from Area 6 that sat right there and could have brought Lincoln up for a vote, but did not..

I as a director did talk to lots of people from my area ,and Michelle I did talk with you and the group at that table , just as much as your group wanted Lincoln, there were people in Area 5 , which includes Ok, New Mexico and Arkansas, that did NOT want it to go to Lincoln , and really there were more that did not want Lincoln.. OH! And I told those I would vote with cost in mind first..!! It was no further for me to one or the other .. So I actually did not care in that respect........I* VOTED WITH WHAT I THOUGHT WAS BEST FOR THE SURVIVAL OF CONGRESS . * It is not a easy Task being a Director as I have found out because at times you will just be wrong regardless of what you do .. I try very hard to represent what my area members want, and at the same time do what is in the best interest of the Assoc. And believe me there are lots of times those two things have a big Conflict and then when your area is divided on a issue well there you go , But I feel that the board did the right thing for the good of the ASPC/AMHR.

Thanks for listening.


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## dmk

Belinda said:


> Next I sat here last night and one by one counted the exhibitors that showed at Congress. Here is what I came up with . Area's 1* 2*3* & 4 had 80 exhibitors.. Area 5 , 6, 7 & 8 had a total of 49 exhibitors.. Now this is actual people who owned horses at Congress, I do understand several, more tham likely had horses with trainers from other area's , Just as I train for people in Area 2 , and I know that Amber Trains for people in Area 5... There were two Directors from Area 6 that sat right there and could have brought Lincoln up for a vote, but did not..
> I as a director did talk to lots of people from my area ,and Michelle I did talk with you and the group at that table , just as much as your group wanted Lincoln, there were people in Area 5 , which includes Ok, New Mexico and Arkansas, that did NOT want it to go to Lincoln , and really there were more that did not want Lincoln.. OH! And I told those I would vote with cost in mind first..!! It was no further for me to one or the other .. So I actually did not care in that respect........I* VOTED WITH WHAT I THOUGHT WAS BEST FOR THE SURVIVAL OF CONGRESS . * It is not a easy Task being a Director as I have found out because at times you will just be wrong regardless of what you do .. I try very hard to represent what my area members want, and at the same time do what is in the best interest of the Assoc. And believe me there are lots of times those two things have a big Conflict and then when your area is divided on a issue well there you go , But I feel that the board did the right thing for the good of the ASPC/AMHR.
> 
> Thanks for listening.


Belinda - thank you for responding and THANKS for stopping and discussing this at our table at Convention. I understand that *NO* director brought up Lincoln for a vote. I understand the numbers regarding exhibitors also. But I think that the number of exhibitors is a pretty fair indication of WHERE the Congress is located. I am basing my questions and thoughts on where the ponies are showing around the country - NOT who exhibits at Congress as that is an unfair assessment IMO - naturally if you held the Congress in Texas you would have more exhibitors from Texas, Oklahoma, perhaps Arkansas and then from the West, etc.

I have absolutely no problem with you voting your conscience and I hope you don't take this as a criticism of you because that is not what I intended. I can honestly say that you have ALWAYS listened to anything I've brought to you and I have tried to encourage more people to go directly to the source rather than talking around about things. I am only trying to present MY opinion (& maybe sway yours in the process



). Of course you can never please us all and I understand that you represent people from other states as well.

But I respectfully stand firm on my opinion. The numbers of ponies exhibiting around the country should have a BIG influence on further decisions regarding locations IF people are truly wanting the Congress to grow. Obviously the numbers are pretty much the same in the last few years - numbers have been slightly (emphasis slightly) down the last two. There MIGHT be a solution to that if some people are willing to think outside the box and really take a look at where people are exhibiting ponies across the country - those are the people I would HOPE you want to draw to Congress. And I did say that Lincoln is maybe not going to be the choice - if there is another facility that is more satisfactory to the people who have historically shown at Congress YET concedes a small measure of regard to the growing # of exhibitors in other areas, I can live with that. I just don't feel this location does that. And I also feel that when the times comes for a decision such as this there should be a committee formed to gather, sort through and present the options in an unbiased forum.

One other question - how long will that cap be guaranteed once we get into the facility in Indiana - one year? It was a heck of a deal and one that practically guaranteed our signing IF what you're looking at is cost only.

Belinda you are always telling us to talk to you and tell us what we think - that's something you may not want to ask ME again!!



(









) But thank YOU for listening and for answering my questions and concerns!

Michelle


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## Belinda

> Belinda you are always telling us to talk to you and tell us what we think - that's something you may not want to ask ME again!! ( ) But thank YOU for listening and for answering my questions and concerns!
> Michelle


Michelle,

I will welcome your questions, suggestions or comments anytime



As with anyone in or out of our Area.. I am not sure why some feel ,that their Directors will not listen.....



If they don't then that is wrong..

As for how long Indiana set the cap , I have not seen the contract. I am sure our Attorney who is going over the contracts will ask that . And when I know I will let you know , not sure when that will be..





So I guess we can sit here and



this point all day , but I must go to work, Have a whole new group of horses to get started for the new show season.. Think that is what I like best about the end of the year, is starting the next one..






I know must be crazy.. Got to be to keep doing this at my age..

Oh and by the way for those not at Convention , I have new Name,, NANA !! Yes I have joined the ranks of being a grandmother









but now the shock is over I am loving it.. Another little horse person in the making ..


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## hhpminis

Hey Nana! Glad you are happy about this and over the shock. Guess you will be shopping for a new leadline outfit in a year or so.

As far as the location of Congress. When I went to convention, I was really hoping for Lincoln. What I had read and been told sounded great and to be honest, I was being a bit biased as it truly was quite a bit closer for me to go to Lincoln. A whole day to be exact. After hearing people speak both at the meeting and casually around a table at night, I found that several, even some that it would be a very short drive, did not think much of the facility.

Business is a subtle blend of practicality and bean counting. Beings that Congress needs to run on a very tight budget it only makes sense that we would first look at dollars. 25,000 is quite a bit lower than any other facility quoted. Push come to shove, the ones that go now will more than likely go no matter where it is held. I honestly do not think we will lose many by moving. We will gain a few as well. Would we gain more if we were in Lincoln? Who knows, I do think a few more west coast people would go. Probably amount to 10 more ponies from our region, (Washington State). Would 10 ponies make up a 7000 dollar difference? Hardly, would 50 ponies make up the difference? Just about. Can we promise 50 ponies if we move????????

I plan on attending Congress this year, not sure yet if I will bring ponies or just come and help out but I see the industry growing and the popularity of the ponies growing again. Changes are slow, and who knows what next year will bring.

I do know that for years, we showed minis is Columbia, it was not the greatest facility, but we showed there none the less. We did not get to move to a new facility until we were literally busting at the seams and could not possibly fit another portable stall on the property. When I first started going to Mini Nationals, I think we had about 500 entries at the most. I remember the year we broke 1000. We were still at Columbia then. We now are in a beautiful facility and we have on a regular basis more than 1500 horses there. I believe this year was 1680 or something like that.

Lets all keep working on breed promotion and work towards busting the seams on these facilities that are presented. Who knows where we will be in a couple years. I have only owned ponies for about 5 years, showed my first pony last year. Some of these people in the heart of pony country have been doing it their whole life.

I think the board made the best decision with the information they had. It was discussed in depth at the committee meeting and the board took them all into consideration before placing the motion on the table. It is where it is this next year, if you want it different next year get out there and beat the brush and come up with a proposal that the board cannot say no to.


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