# Lets see those STRAWBERRY ROANS!



## JustAGamble11 (Oct 24, 2007)

heres my Strawberry roan stallion Just-A-Gamble


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## ThreeCFarm (Oct 25, 2007)

Are you sure your boy is a roan? He looks sabino to me. If that is what you are wanting to see pictures of, I have two sabinos, and some that are sabino + other patterns. I don't have any roans.

Here's my sabino mare, Jandts Cheeri Deeri, first pictured in winter coat when she appears darker, and then in summer coat when she gets lighter:











Redrock Incognito who always has a lot more red hairs than the above mare:


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## Kendra (Oct 25, 2007)

Here's our red roan filly, Scarlet, all 27" inches of her.


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## yellerroseintx (Oct 25, 2007)

I don't believe there are strawberry roans..they are sabino..here are mine..its funny, they looked almost identical when I got them, but now they are different colors! Here are my 2 mares


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## EAD Minis (Oct 25, 2007)

*Hear is my sabino, pinto gelding, One Ritz-C-Kid, *


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 25, 2007)

HE IS NOT SABINO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

HE IS STRAWBERRY ROAN GET IT STRAIGHT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ThreeCFarm (Oct 25, 2007)

Instead of getting an attitude, since you seem so sure of your boy being a strawberry roan, why not take this opportunity to educate us? In your opinion, what makes him a strawberry roan? What is your definition of a strawberry roan?


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 25, 2007)

ThreeCFarm said:


> Instead of getting an attitude, since you seem so sure of your boy being a strawberry roan, why not take this opportunity to educate us? In your opinion, what makes him a strawberry roan? What is your definition of a strawberry roan?


im sorry i didnt meen to get an attitude i will now edjucate you i know for 1 he is a stawberry roan because we got him tested for Sabino and he came out -NEGATIVE and his father is a strawberry roan and his mom is a red roan so that is all i can say at the moment


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## disneyhorse (Oct 25, 2007)

I agree... none of these horses yet (except Kendra's filly) are STRAWBERRY ROANS. They are chestnut sabinos. I suppose if you just want to use "slang" they could be considered "strawberry roan" but technically that's incorrect.

Sorry JustAGamble... but your horse isn't "less" of a horse because it's not a roan! A good horse is any color!

A lot of Forum members are well-educated in color and are desperately trying to dispel the myths and ignorance about color genetics! Don't get defensive... you might learn something!

Andrea


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## love_casper (Oct 25, 2007)

> I agree... none of these horses yet (except Kendra's filly) are STRAWBERRY ROANS. They are chestnut sabinos. I suppose if you just want to use "slang" they could be considered "strawberry roan" but technically that's incorrect.Sorry JustAGamble... but your horse isn't "less" of a horse because it's not a roan! A good horse is any color!
> 
> A lot of Forum members are well-educated in color and are desperately trying to dispel the myths and ignorance about color genetics! Don't get defensive... you might learn something!






:



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:

JustAGamble-Yeah he definitely is Sabino. The reason he may have tested negative is because there is only a test for 1 form of Sabino, and there are many. He's just not Sabino 1, but he is obviously a chestnut sabino.


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## yellerroseintx (Oct 25, 2007)

from EQUINE COAT COLOR GENETICS

Roan, caused by the roan gene, ®, consists of single white hairs intermingled with the base color of a horse. Roaning gives the horse a lightened appearance, while the mane, tail, head and legs tend to remain darker, close to the original base color. It is a dominant gene, meaning that any individual with at least one copy of the R gene trait will be roan. An implication of the gene's dominance is that at least one parent must be a roan in order to pass the gene on — it cannot appear in offspring of two non-roan parents, even if they have roan ancestors.

Roan horses are born roan and stay that way throughout life. Though there may be some changes in coat color when a foal sheds out its first "baby" coat, and color variation from summer to winter, but the horse will not progressively lighten each year the way a gray does. A roan and a gray can be distinguished from one another because a gray is born dark, and lightens more each year, usually on the head first, while a roan is born with intermixed hairs, and the head stays darker than the body.

The true roan gene appears in some breeds more than others. Roans are commonly found in Quarter Horses, American Saddlebreds, Tennessee Walking Horses, Connemara Ponies, Miniature horses, Welsh Ponies (though rarely, if ever, in Welsh Cobs) and Shetland Ponies.

Strawberry roan

The roan gene arguably does not appear in Arabians and Thoroughbreds; though horses in these breeds have been registered as "roan." It is thought that irregularly colored individuals in those breeds may actually carry the rabicano gene or the sabino gene complex rather than the "true" roan gene. In other cases, a young horse that was slow to turn gray was occasionally mistaken for a roan at the time of registration and the papers never corrected.

Several terms are used to describe different shades of roan in horses:

see also Equine coat color

Red or Strawberry Roan Begins genetically with a chestnut (sometimes called sorrel) base coat with white intermingled hairs. Like a chestnut, the mane and tail are red. Some red roans have so many white hairs as to have a near-pinkish tint while others, tending toward rabicano coloring, may have only a few white hairs intermingled on an otherwise dark coat.


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## ThreeCFarm (Oct 26, 2007)

As someone else pointed out, the test for sabino ONLY tests for the sabino gene that produces maximum expression (or white looking horses) sabino. Not all sabinos carry that particular gene. The stallion I posted pictures of does, as he has produced max expression foals, but the mare has not been tested nor has she ever produced a max expression sabino.


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## EAD Minis (Oct 26, 2007)

*I know Roy is a sabino, he has some pretty kewl markings and he just isnt that roany texture. I was just posting to show some different sabino.*

This is interesting about the colors.


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## Jill (Oct 26, 2007)

*[SIZE=12pt]Whinny For Me's Skippin Miracle[/SIZE]*
2003 31.5” AMHR Silver Chestnut Sabino Roan Gelding – First “Home Bred Foal”
Shown as a yearling to multiple championships


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 26, 2007)

I fully agree the horse in question is NOT a strawberry roan- the horse does have the Sabino gene as evidenced by the white on his face I personally have found horses I owned this color (who are literally pink in summer coat) tend to carry the silver gene as well at least in my own experience


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 26, 2007)

here are Jag's genes

*parents*

Jordan's Classic Cowboy (roan)

Triple R Little Bit Of Moon (roan)

Sires parents-

Vaughns JoJo (sorrel and white)

Sydney Little Bit (white)

Dams parents-

Mcf Moon Shadow (black)

Fra-Mars Little Miss Tidbit (sorrel)

sires parent's parents-

Delta G John Henry (roan)

Kegleys Ellie Mae (sorrel)

D. & R.S Little Dancer (red roan)

Meadowbrook's Painted Doll (chesnut pinto)

Dams parents parents-

Hemlock brook's Gee Whiz (roan)

Ohio's Pride (?)

Ohio's Little CrackerJack (roan)

Kelly's Angel (sorrel and white)

And i got theses names and colors from his registration paper so they are all correct


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## heart k ranch (Oct 26, 2007)

Well I think hers is a very pretty RED ROAN..... :lol:

This is my red roan appy.


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## kaykay (Oct 26, 2007)

roan is one of the hardest color patterns for people to understand. I cant tell you how many people especially at shows will claim they have a roan when its actually sabino. Or many times they confuse a true grey with blue (black) roan.

Also just because the papers say it doesnt mean its true unfortunatley. The registries are so behind on true color genetics that many many horses are registered wrong.

If you look at your sires parents it shows no roan so the sire could not be roan. I suspect yours are all sabinos that were mistaken for roan or the papers are wrong.

Things to keep in mind a TRUE roan will have always a roan parent. Head will be darker then body and the points on the legs will be darker.

IMO there is no such thing as a strawberry roan but thats just my opinion. We had a gelding years ago that was called this but he was obviously heavy sabino.

Here is my blue roan with her head clipped so you can see the darker head






Head not clipped (you cant tell teh head is darker)


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## sls (Oct 26, 2007)

Here is my Cinnamon.



:


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## heart k ranch (Oct 26, 2007)

Well I know mine is...FOR sure.

If the horse has darker points and the parent is a roan..

I have seen the sire of my mare he was a real red roan. darker points...

The only thing that got me about my mare was the blanket she has, but the sire was solid red roan. The dam was a sorrel snow cap appy.


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## love_casper (Oct 26, 2007)

JustAGamble11 said:


> And i got theses names and colors from his registration paper so they are all correct







: Papers are wrong more often than not, it's the sad truth, just like Kay said. Even if both his parents were roan, that doesn't change anything. the two were just homozygous for roan, and neither passed it down.

Apparently one of them carried Sabino (could be evident with facial markings on either of the parents).

I really like Sabinos, I'd be happy to own one myself. Beautiful horses everybody.


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 26, 2007)

wel he has the darker points on his legs and head and his blaze does not go over his eyes and he doesnt have a white spot on his lower lip!?!?!?!?!!?!


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## drivin*me*buggy (Oct 26, 2007)

My horse (newly gelded :aktion033: ) BuckWheat is a silver bay roan. This isn't the greatest picture of him, but you can see the darker legs and solid color head. He is a carbon copy of his mama.











Roans are cool because they look different all year round.

Your horse is cute!



:

Angie


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## Nancy (Oct 26, 2007)

Here are 2 of my bay roans Little Kings Buck King he is a strong roan producer I think he is a good example of the roan his points and head are really promient bay.His buckskin roans are really unusual.











This is a yearling son of BK he is also a dark bay roan.











I think this buckskin is going to roan out but, not sure he doesn't have the really dark head or points but, i think they will darken up as a yearling. I know roans are suppose to stay basically the same color but, I have found sometimes a weanling will not display the true depth of there color.











BK has had some red [strawberry] roans but, I don't have pictures of them . Maybe Will G will post some of Groovin Buckeroo I think she is a beautiful red roan .


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## CheyAut (Oct 29, 2007)

My only true roan is black, but I thought I'd share my chesnut varnish appy















As a baby:






Jessi


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## MerelyAmanda (Oct 29, 2007)

JustAGamble11 said:


> here are Jag's genes
> 
> *parents*
> 
> ...


Some please correct me if I am wrong, but to have a "true" roan, doesn't at least one parent have to be a roan? unsure Neither the dam nor the sire have roan parents listed, though they have them farther back. To me, that would say rabicano or sabino, which can be minimal and "hide" while true, dark-headed roan cannot.


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## heart k ranch (Oct 29, 2007)

Yep! but the funny thing is that the registeration colors aren't always right. But the "white" tells me gray.

The marking on the face is whats gets me because it looks like it's a bald face.


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## MBhorses (Oct 29, 2007)

nancy,

very nice looking roan stud. wub


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## I got u (Oct 29, 2007)

leave kate alone it is a roan i saw it in person so ha RollEyes


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 30, 2007)

JustAGamble11 said:


> wel he has the darker points on his legs and head and his blaze does not go over his eyes and he doesnt have a white spot on his lower lip!?!?!?!?!!?!


I am not sure why this is upsetting you? Your horse is a very pretty color however he isnt a roan. If he were his head would be very much darker as would his legs as others have pointed out. He is a very pretty colored sabino

The parents could not have been true roans at all since the there parents were not roans. It doesnt make your horse any less then you thought he is simply not a roan.

In fact there is a possiblity -probability that you will get lots of chrome on foals from him if he is a stallion!


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 30, 2007)

Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis said:


> JustAGamble11 said:
> 
> 
> > wel he has the darker points on his legs and head and his blaze does not go over his eyes and he doesnt have a white spot on his lower lip!?!?!?!?!!?!
> ...


ok he is not SABINO i am sorry to say that u r wrong but u r (not to be mean or rude)

his stripe does not pass his eyes and he has no white spots on his lower lip

and my mistake about he papers his sire has 1 roan parent and his dam has 2


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## Miniature217 (Oct 30, 2007)

Here is my red roan mini mare. Here dam is the same color and her sire is a red pinto.











Leslie


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## ohmt (Oct 30, 2007)

> ok he is not SABINO i am sorry to say that u r wrong but u r (not to be mean or rude)his stripe does not pass his eyes and he has no white spots on his lower lip
> 
> and my mistake about he papers his sire has 1 roan parent and his dam has 2


Nope...sorry to say but you are the wrong one here and I am sorry that you can not learn from this because you are definitely taking these posts as criticisms when really people are trying to educate you. Which is what everyone who is on this forum should want...education on their horses.

Your boy is sabino.

end of story.

And what you put down says that none of his grandparents are roan. Unless you forgot to leave that out. And registrations mean NOTHING. I have 2 silver dapples at my place...one registered as cremello and another registered as palomino. Both are incorrect. I also have a chestnut sabino pinto mare that is registered as a red roan pinto. WRONG!!

Do you see the white on your boy's face and the blue eyes?? That is sabino. Is his face darker red? NO. Then he is NOT a red roan. He is sabino. Tests mean nothing for sabino since there are many different forms and only one test. And sabinos definitely look red roan but they are not. They are sabino. If you don't want a sabino horse then go ahead and send him to me... I'd love to add another to my farm. Oh and how can you tell he does not have a white spot on his lower lip when it lookes to me like his head is white and he has pink lips??

Sorry if I sounded a tish bit frustrated...I just think you need to be a teensy bit more open to other people on here. They are just trying to help.


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 30, 2007)

sorry im getting frustrated too.






but isnt a sabino a pinto the woman who bred him and his parents and grandparents said is strawberry roan (red roan) and there is no way he could be sabino see!


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## love_casper (Oct 30, 2007)

that pic you just posted couldn't in any way on earth be a roan.

it's a typical SABINO!!!! THAT'S WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE!!!!!!

I ditto what ohmt said. Don't know why you are so reluctant to learn. He is Sabino. And actually from the other pictures i've seen of him -this one included- he does have a lower lip spot, not like that is the end-all say-all in this situation, just thought I'd point out. He does _not_ have a dark head. He does _not_ have significantly darker legs. He doesn't even have the normal roan body color. You, a young girl, versus the experience of 4 pages of knowledgeable miniature horse people.....



there comes a point when you have to realize who knows what they are talking about, and who would just like to think so.

I personally LOVE sabinos. I think my next horse will be one.



And like i always say....screw what colors the papers have, in my experience they are wrong more often than not. One Sabino I'm looking at is registered as red roan in one registry, and solid sorrel in the other. It's quite amusing actually.


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## ohmt (Oct 30, 2007)

wow....definitely sabino! see how his points aren't darker? and his white face and gorgeous blue eyes....soooo sabino. this is the sabino coloring to a T. He doesn't need bit pinto spots to be sabino. Other people will know more about this than me but I think sabino is a form of overo and is more of like a roany-blue eyes thing?? I don't think it's a pinto trait. It's an overo trait?? See I'm confused on this stuff too!!! But I do know he is sabino and not red roan. I must say I love both colors though! Many people...especially the old time breeders (sorry! I'm not trying to catergorize!) aren't really up to speed with colors and still stick with their own ways of doing things. They call it strawberry roan but it is sabino. Just like my two silver dapples....it was grandma that did that...she'd still call them grey or palomino or cremello if I didn't help her sometimes!


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 30, 2007)

ok i will research on it i am just defending what my good friend who bred him said, and i want to learn that is why im on here but this woman has been breeding for YEARS!!! and so i was just relying on what she told me


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## love_casper (Oct 30, 2007)

The horse is no more a roan than he is a chimpanzee.

Even breeders get things mixed up sometimes, ESPECIALLY those who have been at it for years. they go by their old ways, therefor I wouldn't doubt at all she did think he was a red roan. I have bought a "palomino" that was really silver bay, seen people sell horses as "gray" when it's silver something.

Sabino is a form of pinto, if you wanna call it that, meaning white pattern. I hate to use the term "overo" because all that means is not tobiano. so in my mind sabino is sort of "overo," as innacrate as that is. Sabino does not, however, cause blue eyes. that is from splash or frame, since he is not a double dilute. So he does carry multiple pinto genes there, some form of sabino that isn't sabino 1, and either splash or frame. notice roan isn't one of them.


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## ohmt (Oct 30, 2007)

Here is a pic of a tovero mare with the tobiano and sabino gene:






(owned by Broken M..Pat and Gerry Meier...I have permission to post!)

This is the filly I mentioned earlier is registered as a red roan pinto but is actually a Tobiano with the sabino gene....no blue eyes but lots of roaning! The first pic is of her as a yearling and you can kind of see the roaning...the last two are of her as a 2 year old with her full winter coat-you can still see the roaning.
















This was her sire: homozygous pinto...with the sabino gene. One blue eye. (sorry bout the satan eyes!)






Please visit this site for wonderful examples of sabino overo horses: http://www.miniatureequine.com/brokenm/mares.html

**** Edited to add a thank you Alex for explaining that to me. I know I've read that somewhere just didn't remember it at the time of posting. And now looking at the pics I have my sabinos haven't all had blue eyes. But blue eyes are a form of splash and a lot of times the frames and splashh and sabino kind of go hand in hand. Not saying that one always means the other. Just that a lot of times they come together.


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 30, 2007)

so sabino is a pinto without spots?


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## love_casper (Oct 30, 2007)

Sabino is.......here just read a bit youself. it does cause pinto patterns, face white, not blue eyes, and pretty much your guy. He's the poster child for typical sabino.

 click this 

that is equine color's explanation. they dont have pics of the more expressive forms of it, but that's the majority of what is posted on this thread.


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 30, 2007)

ooooohhhhhhhh i get it now! OH!

cause look this is what it said "Sabino is the most common cause of solid colored horses with "chrome" or horses that have lots of facial white and high leg white but no body spots"


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## disneyhorse (Oct 30, 2007)

Yes JustAGamble... Sabinos are in the pinto "family" but they don't really have "spots." It is called SABINO ROANING. So while it is "roaning" it isn't a ROAN. The terminology just overlaps there since "roaning" means "white hairs dispersed among a solid colored coat."

So in SABINO roaning there is varying amounts of white hairs sprinkled on the coat... sometimes only along the flanks or edges of blazes, sometimes all over, and sometimes it is to the maximum where the horse is almost pure white. Sabino often has blue eyes. Your guy looks VERY sabino due to the blue eyes, eyeliner, and lack of dark points.

TRUE ROANS on the other hand, will have solid-colored legs and heads. Your guy's legs and head is NOT solid chestnut so he's not a "strawberry roan" which is what a true roan that has a chestnut base is called.

We all learn things, we just have to be open to them.

Andrea


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## ohmt (Oct 30, 2007)

This is what I've found on google:







Sabino

May well be polygenic and causes

abundant white on the legs, and then

creeps up as belly spots and body

spots that are usually flecked and

roaned. Usually the head is largely

white, as well.

In the minimum expression, sabinos can show as

little as a couple of low stockings and a star; in

the extreme expression, sabinos can be pure

white. These snow-white foals are sometimes

mistaken as being "living lethal whites," but it's

easy to tell the difference: pure-white sabinos

are healthy but lethal white foals will die within

two-three days of being born.

Sabino Overos

Characteristics

1. Usually involves extensive leg white and facial white.

2. Body spots are usually on the belly, and can either occur as roan areas, speckled areas or rarely as white patches with clean, crisp edges. Sabino horses with clean, crisp edges are often confused with frame overo horses.

3. Most have flecked with white or roaned, especially when there is extensive sabino markings.

4. Sabinos with extensive white markings will usually have roan or speckled areas on the ears, tail base, flank and chest areas.

5. A minimal white sabino will have extensive white marks, on the face and sock, but no white body spots. This is often overlooked, and the horses are thought to be solid.

6. May have blue or partially blue eyes.

Genetics

This gene often acts like a single dominant gene. This color pattern has also produced lethal white foals, while some other white foals are still viable and normal. The sabino color pattern may also include several different distinct patterns which have not yet been researched.

Sorry more!!

Overo refers to a pinto coloration pattern of white over dark body markings in horses. There are at least three different genes which fall under the "overo" classification: frame overo, sabino, and splash overo. Overos often have fully blue or partially blue eyes. [1] To complicate matters further, some of the spotting gene patterns can be combined to produce a horse with multiple color traits. The genetics of overo and related patterns are still being researched and are not fully understood. The frame and splash traits may be either polygenic, dominant, or incomplete dominants, although they can be so minimally expressed on an individual that the animal is mistaken for a "solid" colored horse. Unlike tobiano patterning, there is currently no DNA test that can identify an overo gene or gene complex.

Sabino coloring is usually characterized by roaning at the edges of white markings, belly spots, irregular face markings, especially white extending past the eyes or onto the chin, white above the knees or hocks, and "splash" or "lacy" marks anywhere on the body, but particularly on the belly. Many sabinos have patches of roan coloring on part of the body, especially the barrel and flanks. Some sabinos may have a dark foot or two, but most have four white feet. Both blue and brown eyes are seen. A wide variety of irregular color patterns are accepted as Sabino. Sabino genetics are also thought to be the most common cause of solid-colored horses with "chrome," a term referring to horses that have lots of facial white and high leg white, with the occasional belly spot or roan patch.

White stockings that extend past the knee or hock, sometimes combined with a bald face (white extending to or past the eyes) are considered evidence of at least minimal expression of the sabino gene-complex. The most extreme manifestation of sabino is called "sabino white" or "maximum white," which produces a totally white-colored horse (see section below).

And I found this!! It has rabicano in there too which has nothing to do with this thread but it also contains differences between a true roan and a sabino so thought it might be helpful!

Sabino color may at times resemble a roan, or a Rabicano, but it is quite different genetically. Sabino, rabicano, and roan patterns have even been confused by some breed associations, including the Arabian, Thoroughbred, Tennessee Walker, Clydesdale and Shire registries, some of which still use the term "roan" to describe both sabinos and rabicanos.

A true roan is differentiated from a Sabino by the absence of splashy white markings and a head and legs that are darker than the body. Most roans have very little white, in fact. However, again, the sabino gene does sometimes occur in conjunction with a roan-colored coat, producing a horse with both roan and sabino traits. A rabicano is even more distinct, having roan patches confined only to limited parts of the body, with large solid areas.


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 30, 2007)

wow!



thank you soooo much u guys! and i thought he was a strawberry roan all along OH!

but thank you again!


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## MerelyAmanda (Oct 30, 2007)

I agree that he is a classic and lovely example of a 'roany' chestnut sabino. I think his color is very pretty. Sabino is a very interesting and 'fun' pattern because it has so many variations. You can have lots of chrome, just a little, 'pinto' spots, the roany look your boy has, and even near-white.


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## CheyAut (Oct 31, 2007)

Someone mentioned it but I want to reiterate, sabino does NOT cause blue eyes. They are caused by splash and/or frame. Yes, many horses with sabino have blues, but the sabino isn't the cause. Either frame or splash, or double dilute will be the cause.

All the horses posted in this thread are beauties



I love roaning, wether it is a true (classic) roan, sabino roan, varnish roan, ect 

Jessi


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## rabbitsfizz (Oct 31, 2007)

I would definitely test him for LWO before breeding him.

How old is he???


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## JustAGamble11 (Oct 31, 2007)

rabbitsfizz said:


> I would definitely test him for LWO before breeding him.
> 
> How old is he???


he is a yearling and i am not breeding him im getting him gelded when the frost comes so the flys dont give him a infection


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