# Ginger used to make tails higher ?



## loveminis (Aug 30, 2009)

Is it true that people use ginger to make a mini's tail look higher because it irritates them so they hold their tail up ?

I am sure no one would admit if they have used it






C'mon people !! Horses are sensitive creatures, especially minis. This is something that really bothers me. I wonder what else is done to them


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## crponies (Aug 30, 2009)

This is not done just with miniatures but big horses too. I don't think it is looked on favorably by most people but some people persist in doing some things to present a prettier picture.


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## RockRiverTiff (Aug 30, 2009)

crponies said:


> This is not done just with miniatures but big horses too. I don't think it is looked on favorably by most people but some people persist in doing some things to present a prettier picture.


Yes, I saw a gingered Arabian stallion compete once (without getting too graphic, the physical signs of his discomfort were pretty blatant up close). The sad thing is that he was the obvious winner. Most of the breeds have rules against this, and alas that Arabian stallion was disqualified when he easily could have won without the ginger.


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## Leeana (Aug 30, 2009)

I don't think it has as much to do with tail set as it does with just getting the horse to toss that tail up and show off as if it was excited. It is very obvious when this is done as the horse will hold its tail up almost as if it is about to have a bowel movement or is excited but its facial expression shows much different. I would never ginger any of my horses, either for photos or in the show ring as I feel very agianst it and my horses naturally toss their tail up and show off in the show ring when they trot (..and have pretty tail sets and croups) NATURALLY ....


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## Millstone Farm (Aug 30, 2009)

It is against AMHA rules to use ginger (or any other irritant) in the show ring.


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## disneyhorse (Aug 30, 2009)

It is not done often in miniatures, except occasionally for photoshoots. It is illegal to ginger minis of both registries on show grounds.

In some breeds, such as Hackneys and Saddlebreds and other hotter breeds, it is quite common to see in the show ring.

Andrea


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## muffntuf (Aug 30, 2009)

Well you can always call the attention to the steward of the show as it is illegal in AMHR. In ASPC is it illegal in Foundation, Classic and Modern Pleasure.


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 31, 2009)

Stupid question here--how is the ginger used? Externally, I presume? I've led a sheltered life.


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## loveminis (Aug 31, 2009)

I've lead a sheltered life also.... I presume it is rubbed under their tail ? This came up in another post and I just cant believe what people do to animals


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## Bess Kelly (Aug 31, 2009)

A little bit inside the anus will create this lift situation. If used with excess it can/will be quite uncomfortable. If minimal used it is like a tingling. However, where it is and for a length of time this tingle/burn sensation can last and be quite annoying!

I know, I know --



-- first time I heard it I was amazed.



Put some ground ginger in you mouth and you will get the idea, now imagine it elsewhere.

For photos -- use another horse, or a mirror!! You can get similar excitement. Or, tease the tail some, gives a similar impression. If it WERE on the outside, at least it could be cleaned off and something applied to the skin to counter the feelings somewhat, like a product with lanacane in it, etc.

Just don't use it as it isn't right.


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## Littleum (Aug 31, 2009)

Stick your finger in the salve, stick it in the horse's bum. There you go.

I've always stood by the policy I won't do anything to my horses I won't do to myself.

Gingering and Arabians has been a huge trainwreck for YEARS. Just google it. Trainwreck, trainwreck, trainwreck.

Miniatures by comparison to other big breeds are pretty tame... we don't have a lot of doping, we don't have a lot of cosmetic surgery, we don't have hoof horrors, don't have the "rollkur" trainwreck, the shamateur train wreck... I could go on. But basically if you familarize yourself with the general horrors of other breeds/show rings, we actually have it pretty good. Want to see a train wreck? Google "big lick TWH" and see a train wreck. The abuses in the TWH ring are of legendary proportions.


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## mrsj (Aug 31, 2009)

Littleum said:


> I've always stood by the policy I won't do anything to my horses I won't do to myself.
> Google "big lick TWH" and see a train wreck. The abuses in the TWH ring are of legendary proportions.


I just did this as it was something I have never heard of (being UK based) - how horrific. I don't know what to say really.

Edited to add - I mean I just googled big lick NOT that I tried gingering my horses!!


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## Minimor (Aug 31, 2009)

The people I've seen using ginger (hackneys and saddlebreds around here) have had it in suppository form. It's not something I use--never have, never will.

A friend recently had a judge (AMHR) question/suspect her of gingering her stallion because he likes to carry his tail up when he's out in the ring--she doesn't ginger him of course, but he looks like he could be. You do realize that the only test available for ginger is the taste test.....

I was once looking at some Morgan foals from a farm in the US. The lady sent a video showing each foal trotting around the yard--all had their heads up, tails up, looking very showy and fancy. Silly me thought they were just fresh & feeling good so showing off. Then she had some footage of mares and foals being brought in from the pasture, and she said these had been out all day so weren't fresh and weren't gingered....only then did it occur to me that the foals shown at the start of the tape WERE all gingered, and that's why they were flagging their tails. DUH. I lost interest then.


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## Magic (Aug 31, 2009)

Someone told me once that they thought I had gingered one of my mares when showing, as she is one for holding her tail up. I was horrified. I would never do that to any horse! I like the "tail up" look, but only if it's NATURAL. This mare's 25 year old dam holds her tail up a lot too, it's just *them*.

I think that people who do things like gingering to their horses should have to experience it for themselves!


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## susanne (Aug 31, 2009)

Minimor said:


> A friend recently had a judge (AMHR) question/suspect her of gingering her stallion because he likes to carry his tail up when he's out in the ring--she doesn't ginger him of course, but he looks like he could be. You do realize that the only test available for ginger is the taste test.....


This is a serious topic and I apologize, but I couldn't help but spray coffee on the monitor over this one! Somehow I would guess that the judge didn't test?

Perhaps those who do ginger should be required to conduct this test...only right, as it fits their personalities...

Horse show abuse stories are legion...people never fail to amaze me.


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## REO (Aug 31, 2009)

That's the way I feel too Magic.

IMO, the people who _do_ do this, should be required to do it to themselves. Every time!

And people who are even *thinking* of doing it to their horse, should be made to do it to _themselves_ first.

That's the way *I* feel about it.

Minimor said: "You do realize that the only test available for ginger is the taste test...."

*LMAO!!!*


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## Marsha Cassada (Aug 31, 2009)

[SIZE=10pt]I wonder if this is where the old sayings like "Ginger them up" or "he is full of ginger" came from? [/SIZE]


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## Littleum (Aug 31, 2009)

susanne said:


> Minimor said:
> 
> 
> > A friend recently had a judge (AMHR) question/suspect her of gingering her stallion because he likes to carry his tail up when he's out in the ring--she doesn't ginger him of course, but he looks like he could be. You do realize that the only test available for ginger is the taste test.....
> ...


LOL, reminded me of a tale from about 10 years ago at an Arabian show in the UK... very prominent judge suspected one of the big-name stallions of being gingered. Stuck her finger you know where, tasted it and DQ'd the horse!


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## REO (Aug 31, 2009)

That judge put her finger where her mouth is!

(play on words) LOL


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## sfmini (Aug 31, 2009)

I have two ginger stories from the arab days.

The first cracks me up every time I think of it. A friend had an arab with a trainer who wanted to ginger him. No, not until I try it myself first. So, she put it in the same place you would put it in the horse. Needless to say she was on fire and her horse was never gingered.

The second is an arab gelding who now belongs to Judy. The trainers gingered him, good thing they were standing off to the side as he let loose with both feet. POW! Never gingered him again either!


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## maplegum (Aug 31, 2009)

The human race is a disgrace. There are times am I ashamed to be human. The things that animals are put through just for the benefit of people sickens me. I just found out some home truths about the racehorse industry that really upsets me, as well as some details about big time breeders.

Horses are such forgiving creatures.


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## ruffian (Aug 31, 2009)

Anybody else "Squirming" in their seat reading this?? I would throw my tail up over my back too!!


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## SweetOpal (Aug 31, 2009)

I have a horse that was shown by a trainer as a yearling (was not owned by me at the time) and he was gingered for that year of his life at shows, he is 4 now and still gets extremely weird when you go near his rear, and will kick the head off of any tailer that gets anywhere near him. He is also extremely hard to get a blanket on, you can get it buy him but when you try to put the leg straps he thinks you are going to do something to him...I beleive it must have left a very bad impression on him!

The sad thing is that it happens in our registry (ASPC) more than you think. It is illegal in the MP division but I saw it happening right in the warm up arena this year at Congress..... You can pick them out in the MP Stallion division if you look at the pics... I personally can never imagine myself using ginger when you have the option of a fake tail!


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## muffntuf (Aug 31, 2009)

And sadly no one called it to anyone(s) attention (stewards????), if it was it was ignored. It is illegal to ginger MP's. But Moderns and ASPR you can. I have seen it go both ways - the inexperienced who ginger do it wrong and those that do it right - the pony only reacts for a short period of time, and sometimes it wears off before they get in their class.

Do they need it? I haven't finished forming an opinion yet.


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## Carolyn R (Aug 31, 2009)

SweetOpal said:


> The sad thing is that it happens in our registry (ASPC) more than you think.


The registry above was not the specific registry to whom these horses belonged, but sadly this occured at a certain event a few years ago, not showing, but a different sort of event. I was glad to see it was not followed through with the following year.


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## Minimor (Aug 31, 2009)

> Somehow I would guess that the judge didn't test?


No, he so kindly informed the other judge that it was "her turn"...said he'd get the glove & it was her turn to taste.... my friend told them that she doesn't do spices!


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## Marty (Aug 31, 2009)

The people that do this must not have confidence in themselves, their horses, or their breeding programs to have to resort to such sick methods for a lousy ribbon or to make a sale. These are not horse people. They can't be if they think its ok to cheat and inflict pain.

I wouldn't associate myself with these kind of people if I knew who did these things and certainly never purchase a horse from them. SHAMEFUL.


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## Miniv (Aug 31, 2009)

maplegum said:


> The human race is a disgrace. There are times am I ashamed to be human. The things that animals are put through just for the benefit of people sickens me. I just found out some home truths about the racehorse industry that really upsets me, as well as some details about big time breeders.
> Horses are such forgiving creatures.


Well put.......I've known about gingering......and am aware of other methods. Yes, it is very shameful. And it's all to win, win, win.

Your last line says it all.......


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## willowoodstables (Aug 31, 2009)

I would never do it either..could never figure why you would do it and then show the horse so it blooded up and then try and make it stand still properly! They stand all wide bhind or squirmy or plain out kicking..the reason a horse flags its tail is exurberance..or a great croup..nope never my boys....I agree it should be banned everywhere....geesh why not put barb wire on the halter chain too...


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## ~Lisa~ (Aug 31, 2009)

muffntuf said:


> Do they need it? I haven't finished forming an opinion yet.



Umm I am pretty sure it is a straight forward answer -NO HORSE *NEEDS* GINGER UP THERE butt

People do all kinds of crazy things to try and get an edge and win in our breed (meaning AMHR/ASPC ) I find it even stupider since we do not even have what other breeds consider big $ paybacks. I don't think money makes it ok don't get me wrong but sheer ego alone as the reason well that is just totally shameful


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## susanne (Sep 1, 2009)

Littleum said:


> LOL, reminded me of a tale from about 10 years ago at an Arabian show in the UK... very prominent judge suspected one of the big-name stallions of being gingered. Stuck her finger you know where, tasted it and DQ'd the horse!





> That judge put her finger where her mouth is! (play on words) LOL


Or you might say that the Arabian horse show world left a bad taste in her mouth?

........

Back to the serious side, I absolutely agree with you, ~Lisa~ There is no possible result that could ever justify this practice.


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## ClickMini (Sep 1, 2009)

> I have seen it go both ways - the inexperienced who ginger do it wrong and those that do it right - the pony only reacts for a short period of time, and sometimes it wears off before they get in their class.
> Do they need it? I haven't finished forming an opinion yet.


Well, that is an interesting distinction! The ones who do it "right" the pony only SUFFERS for a short period of time? Excuse me, I don't think there is a RIGHT way to torture a FRIEND! This is disgusting and sick. If you will cross into this gray territory, how easy would it be to slip into other unacceptable practices such as doping (oh yes, that DOES happen as well! Do they "NEED" that?), intimidation and fear to blow your pony up before it goes in for a halter class, and so many other things I have heard and/or seen since getting into showing. IMO any animal owned by people who think this way are nothing short of prisoners. How could these animals possibly look forward to working for and playing with the humans in their lives? Sure, their coats may shine, but their brains will eventually fry and their guts look like craters of the moon. And all you have left are the $1.50 bits of ribbon in the end...

Please think long and hard before jumping onto this ethical landslide. Your horses, your silent friends, are counting on you to make the right decisions on their behalf. They give you EVERYTHING, you have to know this. They deserve to have the very best of you.

Your horses are your mirror.


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## Charlotte (Sep 1, 2009)

> *Your horses are your mirror.*


Bautifully said Clickmini. May I have permission to use this quote and should I attribute it to you?

Charlotte

Thank you Amy.


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## ClickMini (Sep 1, 2009)

Thank you, Charlotte. I am not the originator of that quote, and I am not sure who is...I co-opted it myself as it is very true! Feel free to use it.


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## kaykay (Sep 1, 2009)

Gingering is a live and well in AMHA/AMHR/ASPC and many auctions. Its really unfortunate and I will NEVER agree that its okay to do. I have said so many times that even if a person doesnt want to show they should go watch some shows and see how some people/ farms treat their horses. Its a real eye opener. I wont ever subscribe to the "do anything to win a ribbon" I have seen how miserable these gingered horses are, especially when its done to weanlings. Makes me sick to my stomach. I dont think filing a complaint will do any good at all. The horses are obviously gingered and there is no way you can tell me that the stewards and judges dont know it.


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## loveminis (Sep 1, 2009)

I am appalled. The horses are innocent and the people that do it are SICK !!





No wonder I see so many minis with puffed up tails.


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## Connie P (Sep 1, 2009)

Boy I tell ya - I must be living under a rock. I have never heard of "gingering". What does it do to make the horse hold it's tail up? Does it burn? Please enlghten me. I'm assuming it is uncomfortable for the horse, but have no idea why ginger would make a horse hold it's tail up. I guess because I would NEVER consider doing anything to one of my horses to make it uncomfortable. I just don't have any experience with any of these things and am proud to say so.

Yes, some people will stop at nothing to get a ribbon even if it is at the horses expense. Sad isn't it????





Well now that I took the time to read this entire thread I am more than appalled! What on earth is wrong with people.....................???????


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## Karen S (Sep 1, 2009)

For those of you that don't know or never heard of "gingering" here is a description:

Today this practice still occurs, now called gingering the tail or simply gingering. Today the purpose is mostly to make the horse carry its tail high, and to a lesser extent to encourage the horse to move in a lively fashion. It is a particular problem for the halter horses in the Arabian and American Saddlebred breeds, where high tail carriage and animation are desired traits. However, nearly all horse show sanctioning organizations in the USA explicitly forbid it and have the authority to disqualify a horse abused in this way. While some areas may be less than rigorous about enforcing the rule, tests such as "ginger swabbing" may be done to detect the presence of ginger in the anus. While it is not entirely reliable, concerns of being detected by anal tests has led to some horse handlers placing the raw ginger in the vagina, if the horse is a mare.[3] A modern veterinary dictionary notes that vaginal placement is more effective than anal insertion, because the ginger is likely to remain in place longer, and concludes gingering "would be considered to be an act of cruelty in any civilized community."[4]

Karen


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## ~Lisa~ (Sep 1, 2009)

and yet it is still allowed under our rules in ASPC.....


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## Margo_C-T (Sep 1, 2009)

...only one of many cruel practices done to horses in the name of 'winning'...

I especially appreciate the comments by Marty and Amy Lacy.

I well recall seeing CLEAR evidence of sale horses having been gingered at the sale held during AMHA(then-called) Nationals several years back...in the early 2000's. I've also seen the same in other sales I've personally viewed--and/or photos of same.

I am heartened to see that people are, as they should be, horrified by such actions.

Margo


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## Magic (Sep 1, 2009)

Karen S said:


> While it is not entirely reliable, concerns of being detected by anal tests has led to some horse handlers placing the raw ginger in the vagina, if the horse is a mare.[3] A modern veterinary dictionary notes that vaginal placement is more effective than anal insertion, because the ginger is likely to remain in place longer, and concludes gingering "would be considered to be an act of cruelty in any civilized community."[4]
> Karen





OMG!




That sounds even worse than the anal, which is plenty bad enough!





I agree with the conclusion taht gingering "would be considered to be an act of cruelty in any civilized community".

Since gingering is still allowed legally in some of the ponies, I think it's long past time that someone write up a proposal for Convention to have it DISALLOWED and ILLEGAL. I'm not good at writing things; do we have any volunteers? I'll gladly sign a petition or whatever else is necessary to get this practice banned. *shudder*


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## Field-of-Dreams (Sep 1, 2009)

There is an ad in one of the World magazines a while back with BROODMARES who were definitely gingered. No pregnant mare that I ever saw stood like that... gorgeous, professional pictures but the mares' tails were up and out. I can't remember the farm, but it was a full page color ad. Poor girls.

Lucy


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## kaykay (Sep 1, 2009)

Im not sure the rule book says gingering is okay for moderns?? I cant find it?? It does specificially say no gingering for modern pleasure or classic so passing a rule is really not effective since we already have a rule that is ignored. We just need the rules that are there to be enforced. (unless I am wrong and it says gingering is acceptable for moderns but like I said I cant find it)


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## Minimor (Sep 1, 2009)

> Boy I tell ya - I must be living under a rock. I have never heard of "gingering". What does it do to make the horse hold it's tail up? Does it burn? Please enlghten me. I'm assuming it is uncomfortable for the horse, but have no idea why ginger would make a horse hold it's tail up. I guess because I would NEVER consider doing anything to one of my horses to make it uncomfortable. I just don't have any experience with any of these things and am proud to say so.


Yes, it burns/stings, which is why the horse holds his tail up. Some horses do seem to get more "showy" with ginger--others do not react well to it at all. The worst I've seen in the showring was a Saddlebred gelding that had his tail flipped right up over his back, he walked with his hind legs spraddled and had his head drawn up & back with ears pinned--he was obviously extremely uncomfortable and ANNOYED and it was equally obvious that it was ginger causing his problem. I wanted to give the owner a dose of his own ginger...
Kay, if there is no wording which specifically prohibits Moderns from being gingered then that means ginger is legal in the Modern division.


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## ~Lisa~ (Sep 1, 2009)

kaykay said:


> Im not sure the rule book says gingering is okay for moderns?? I cant find it?? It does specificially say no gingering for modern pleasure or classic


Exactly the point since it is specifically mentions not acceptable in MP and Classic and excludes Moderns ... it is therefore ok to practice in the Modern Division

We have all learned over the past couple of years if a infingement no matter how much it should be commonly known or implied is not clearly written in black and white.... then it is not considered breaking a rule and no punishment of any kind can be given


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## Littleum (Sep 1, 2009)

Of course there's an opposite to gingering...

tail blocking

One of the abuses of the stock breed ring, where tail movement is a huge "no no", so horses get their tails blocked (paralyzed)

Also happens to a lesser extent in the hunter and dressage rings if the horse is a big tail mover (flags, wrings, cocks to the side ect)

Where money, power and egos are involved, folks will do anything.


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## susanne (Sep 1, 2009)

> We just need the rules that are there to be enforced.


I disagree, Kay. When it comes to moral and ethical issues such as this, a rule is also a statement, and absence of a specific rule forbidding the practice becomes tacit permission.

If the rulebooks were to state that gingering is not allowed and those caught will be disqualified and ordered off of the showgrounds, THAT would be making a statement and the meaning would be loud and clear.


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## disneyhorse (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes, gingering is legal in the Modern (not Pleasure) division.

Andrea


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## loveminis (Sep 1, 2009)

> Yes, gingering is legal in the Modern (not Pleasure) division.Andrea


:arg! I just find this DISGUSTING !!!!


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## georgiegirl (Sep 1, 2009)

I would like to think that people who are into miniatures, and love their horses, are above doing something like this.

I also would hope there is not a "dark trainers hole" as there is in other breeds where all kinds of inhumane, cruel, and illegal practices exist.





The people, who I know, love their minis and would not do anything to harm them.


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## RockRiverTiff (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm not excusing anyone for this, especially since it's already been noted on here that people are still knowingly doing this, but is it possible the rule/lack of a rule in Modern is just an oversight? That no one has taken the time to get it amended? I can't think of any other breed that allows for gingering.


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## disneyhorse (Sep 1, 2009)

RockRiverTiff said:


> I'm not excusing anyone for this, especially since it's already been noted on here that people are still knowingly doing this, but is it possible the rule/lack of a rule in Modern is just an oversight? That no one has taken the time to get it amended? I can't think of any other breed that allows for gingering.


No, it's not an oversight in the Moderns. It is done on plenty of them, I would guess (anyone who knows more than I do please chime in) mostly on the current year foals and maybe also the yearlings, who do not regularly wear the tail sets.

Plenty of other breeds allow gingering, particularly the Hackneys, which is where the Moderns closely follow style.

Andrea

P.S. I have shown my ponies Modern Pleasure only, no gingering here! I'd rather just tie on a fake tail, or show them smooth. Moderns CAN show in smooth tail, just no one does!


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## kaykay (Sep 1, 2009)

I think I didnt make myself clear



I have seen many modern pleasures gingered and B division horses. So even though it is against those rules its still being done so the rule is not enforced. So put in a rule for Moderns but if you cant get it enforced now how will you get it enforced for Moderns? I would be in full agreement though for adding the rule for moderns but again you have to be able to enforce it.

I have also been told it is really spreading in AMHA. I know I have been to auctions that are mostlly AMHA and yes the horses were gingered.

Now on a side note I will say many horses naturally carry their tail up without any gingering. Its hard to describe unless you see it but you can almost always tell its ginger as the horse is almost nuts with the burning. A horse that naturally carries their tail high is not frantic and constantly looking at their own rear


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## Margo_C-T (Sep 1, 2009)

With all due respect...IF the membership demanded it, there WOULD BE enforcement of rules. The old saying, "Where there's a will, there's a way", applies. The fact that most people are either unaware of the abuses, or, don't want to be 'the bad guy'(I wish I had a nickel for every person who's used that to justify inaction-----I think I'd be rich!)is a big reason that these unlawful, and worse, abusive practices are still being rather rountinely carried out by some.

I do recognize that the 'powers that be' have often made it very difficult, unpleasant, and potentially costly, to protest about anything at a horse show (and I mean, across the entire range of equine show ring activities, in about every breed/discipline....)and many may understandably hesitate to 'put their hand into the fire', so to speak. All this makes for a sad state of affairs, and contributes to the continuation of the abuses, IMO.

Margo


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## Littleum (Sep 1, 2009)

kaykay said:


> I have also been told it is really spreading in AMHA. I know I have been to auctions that are mostlly AMHA and yes the horses were gingered.


So I guess it begs the question... if you believed the horses were gingered at an auction (and I don't mean YOU, I mean a general "you") would you leave the auction?

Would you go up to the management and turn in your bidder number and tell them that you're leaving (and taking your $$$ with you) because you don't approve of the gingering? Or anything else you saw that really made you go "holy heck, REALLY?" My personal 2 that go before gingering are eyelash removal (WTH!?) and filing hooves down to bloody nubs. I cannot STAND the bloody nubs. And shame on the judges who don't DQ an obviously lame horse with bloody, aching hooves... but that's another thread.

Would you risk potentially ticking off people?

I guess you could voice your disapproval but if your sign the ticket anyway, does it really matter if you approve or not? You bought the horse.

I'm not talking about crummy all-breed, all-comer auctions where you kind of assume there's going to be some questionable stuff going on anyway.

Just throwing it out there. I've been to and bid at auctions where the horses have been gingered.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 1, 2009)

This is a disgusting practice, and ultimately to make the owner feel like they have achieved something wonderful. When they bring home a certain colored ribbon. May the goodness of karma turn around and bless them with a huge case of perpetual hemorrhoids!

My only giggle is, what if,,, the judge thinks the horse is gingered, does the finger in the pooper trick,,, and NOTHING.Clean. Would that not constitute a really bad day??? How would you play that off????


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## hobbyhorse23 (Sep 1, 2009)

ClickMini said:


> > I have seen it go both ways - the inexperienced who ginger do it wrong and those that do it right - the pony only reacts for a short period of time, and sometimes it wears off before they get in their class.
> > Do they need it? I haven't finished forming an opinion yet.
> 
> 
> ...


WELL said, Amy. Well said.









We do this kind of crap to ourselves too, but at least the person has a choice and can speak up when those fashionable shoes rub a hole in her heel. Our children and our animals do not have that protection.

I am proud, darn proud, that my animals reflect the joy I feel in being with them and run ahead of me to load in the trailer for a show. It may cost me a few ribbons but I simply cannot stand to do some of the underhanded things that are necessary to win in some disciplines. I will not check my horse up, I will not make him look frantic, I will not have him rearing and roaring and flipping over in harness. I will not ginger, trim the foot inappropriately, teach my horse that he doesn't dare take his eyes off me or shank a well-behaved horse to "get his attention" in the ring. Heck, I don't even want to bald them or shave that closely for halter because I don't like how it looks growing out in the pasture at home!



Some things are personal taste, but making your horse HURT or FEAR for personal gain is simply wrong.

No if's, and's, or but's about it. Period.

Leia


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## sfmini (Sep 1, 2009)

One big problem with enforcing it is how would you do it? I don't know of a scientifically proven test for the substance, so lawsuits would be lost.

How do you know for 100% that the horse with the tail up is gingered and not excited and high as a kite? Until you can answer those questions, there can be no enforcement, it would be financial suicide and not responsible for the organizations. Plus, don't forget, a lawsuit can be brought against you as well for any damages of lost revenue, lost opportunities to win, and no proof anything was done wrong.

Sad, but true.


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## hobbyhorse23 (Sep 1, 2009)

Crabby-Chicken said:


> May the goodness of karma turn around and bless them with a huge case of perpetual hemorrhoids!


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## disneyhorse (Sep 1, 2009)

I agree there would have to be some sort of "test." Many horses carry their tails high without ginger, hackneys and Modern shetlands included.

My stallion carries his tail a bit "up" and when he's really excited puts it straight up in the air!






I'm trying to get him to do it on command!

So far, we're at about 50% when he's on the road here...

I wish people wouldn't do abusive things to their horses just to get them to "look pretty." A pretty horse will look impressive and have that "presence" no matter how much hair you shave off of it or how much ginger you put up their tails!

Andrea

I have noticed though, that my horses will only really flag their tails (in hand) when they are moving. When standing still, the tail really starts to come back down. In a gingered horse, it's always up and the horse is pretty cranky!


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## GeorgeandHumble (Sep 1, 2009)

I thought for sure when I opened ythis thread I would be reading about an old wives tale that if you fed a pregnant mare some ginger that her foal would be born with a tail that sat higher on its back. I was surprised! I have never heard of gingering a horse to make its tail stand up. I guess I know now why I see so many pictures of horses with their tails held high yet never see any like that in person. I was just showing my partner pictures of horses with their tails held high and I said to him. "Look at how full of fire they look when they hold their tail like that." Little did I know they probably were on fire. I can't believe anyone would do that, well, yes I can, I used to show dogs and saw people do some pretty strange things to better their chances of winning. Humble will sometimes hold his tail high but that's only because he is feeling his oats, not his ginger.


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## Minimor (Sep 1, 2009)

> I can't think of any other breed that allows for gingering.


 I'm not sure which ones allow for it--I haven't looked at the rules to know if it's legal for Saddlebreds & Hackneys, or if they just do it in spite of the rules. Morgans have a rule against it, but many show with ginger anyway. Arabians too.



sfmini said:


> One big problem with enforcing it is how would you do it? I don't know of a scientifically proven test for the substance, so lawsuits would be lost.How do you know for 100% that the horse with the tail up is gingered and not excited and high as a kite? Until you can answer those questions, there can be no enforcement, it would be financial suicide and not responsible for the organizations. Plus, don't forget, a lawsuit can be brought against you as well for any damages of lost revenue, lost opportunities to win, and no proof anything was done wrong.
> 
> Sad, but true.


That's it exactly. There isn't any official test for it, which means no way to prove it. That's why so many breeds continue to not enforce the no gingering rule.
And when it comes to Miniatures....if the measuring rule can't be enforced, how on earth does anyone expect the no gingering rule to be enforced?????



> Its hard to describe unless you see it but you can almost always tell its ginger as the horse is almost nuts with the burning. A horse that naturally carries their tail high is not frantic and constantly looking at their own rear


No, it isn't always easy or even possible to tell for sure if a horse is or isn't gingered. Many that are gingered are not frantic or constantly looking at their own rear--they are not "almost nuts with the burning". They act quite normal--some don't.....some do react quite negatively to the ginger, but most are really not obvious, other than the elevated tail. In the video I mentioned earlier, where a number of foals were shown gingered--it wasn't at all obvious. With only one exception they all looked like normal, natural foals that had been stalled overnight & then turned out in an unfamiliar paddock to run around--they were flagging their tails & strutting around, ears up. One foal was doing a lot of kicking...and without knowing the foal at all it was still possible to think that this one foal was just an especially feisty fellow who was feeling high spirited and had a tendency for kicking (as some foals do!)....if I were to shut any of my foals in for the night & then turn them out in the morning (without ginger) and perhaps jazzed them up some by crinkling a plastic bag, well, all one of them would be flagging their tails & showing off just like those foals were. Watching that video I couldn't tell....I've seen many show horses that I knew were gingered, but if I didn't know for sure that they were, I wouldn't have been able to judge if they were or weren't with complete accuracy.
At that recent show my friend's horse looked enough like he could be gingered, even though he wasn't, that the judges questioned it.

I for one would never protest a horse that I thought was gingered--because I know all too well that I could be wrong and I don't believe in throwing away a protest fee on something so impossible to determine. If I actually SAW a handler gingering a particular horse then it would be different--then I know for sure--but even then with no way of proving it (because come on, how many people are actually going to take part in the taste test?????







) I still would not bother.


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## rubyviewminis (Sep 2, 2009)

I learn something new everyday. I too thought the original question might pertain to some wives tale. Now I understand why the Saddlebreds and TWH lookes so un-natural to me with their tails held, to me, un-natural. I realize there are/were other barbaric methods used on those poor horses.


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## kaykay (Sep 2, 2009)

> I have noticed though, that my horses will only really flag their tails (in hand) when they are moving. When standing still, the tail really starts to come back down. In a gingered horse, it's always up and the horse is pretty cranky!


Exactly. I have never seen a gingered horse that acted comfortable. I can only speak from my own experience. All the ones I have seen are very uncomfortable. Not just excited. Theres a big difference.

I have noticed especially with stallions that Feature will lift his tail as soon as he walks out of his stall. Then if he sees mares its straight up LOL. But once he relaxes he lets it back down.

And almost all my foals flag their tails when they are really moving

I have always said the show life of a horse is relatively a short period. Once the show days are over I want to have a mentally and physically sound horse. So if my horses place lower because I refuse to take off eyelashes, trim hooves to nothing, ginger etc then so be it. I sleep good at night and so do my horses.


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## georgiegirl (Sep 2, 2009)

As a relative newby to miniature horses, although 60+ years in the stock horse industry, I was truly hoping I had found a breed that loved their horses enough not to do all the horrendous things that you see in other breeds.

I think that probably the Tennessee Walker horses are probably the most mistreated, although the cruel practices appear in most breeds. The people who perpetrate these atrocities must lie awake nights trying to dream up these cruel acts.

I guess I dont get what the point is other than taking home a ten cent ribbon and outdoing the neighbors down the street. Whooo Hooo aint that great.

I am certainly glad to read that people on this board do not perform these acts and that they truly love their horses.

Horses are put in pens, corrals, and stalls. They have no choice but to be at the whim of the owners, trainers, agents or caregivers. Whatever these people choose to dole out to them is what they get. No wonder horses crib, stall weave, wind suck, and have ulcers. I would to, wouldnt you?

Rules need to be installed by all associations connected to the miniature horse/shetland industry to put a stop to this nonsense. There is no excuse for inhumanity to any creature!!!


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