# SHETLAND PONIES LOOKING MORE LIKE MINIATURE HORSES



## Celeste (Oct 19, 2007)

I was always under the impression that shetland ponies had a certain look about them, that they had

short legs with a stout body but the ones I have seen in the thread about shetland ponies look more

like miniature horses - they look absolutely stunning but thereby lies my confusion.

Can anybody please enlighten me?


----------



## Leeana (Oct 19, 2007)

There is a huge difference between ISLAND shetlands and our AMERICAN shetlands. What you described sounds more like the picture of the island shetlands.

The american shetlands are split into three divisions the Foundation, Classic and Moderns.

The shetlands are very refined, animated ponies (i think even the classics and foundations have more animated movement then other pony breeds, even without hackney background). They are not short fat ponies



. Even though the shetland breed is easily the most popular pony breed in America, it is soo misunderstood and very few people know what an actual shetland looks like. Extremely refined beautiful ponies.

The ponies (classic/founday type, there have been a few moderns that have made AMHR height, I believe Michigans Hart Breaker made amhr height? Correct me if i am wrong) are now (actually have been for a while, look at the seth thomas, arenosa horses ext) making miniature height and being hardshipped into AMHR, even AMHA in some cases and being bred as 'miniature shetlands'. Most are horses from the arenosa line that naturally carry the two (amhr/aspc) registrys and some are even triple registered (amha/amhr/aspc), so its not just hardshipping the tiny shetlands ...for most its in their pedigree. They IMO dominate the over division in the amhr ring today. My friend, who i purchased Narko from, showed an over division yearling filly that placed above the amhr/aspc horses at Nationals in 06' (i believe she went national champion) and she put an add in the journal joking, 'National Champion ..and she isnt even a shetland' LOL.

Also, they are measured differently. The shetlands are measured at the withers while the minis are meaured at the last hairs of the mane. For instance, the horse in my Avatar is a ASPC Foundation shetland and he measures 39'' as a pony and as a minature he measures 37.50'' so he is a 'Miniature Shetland', but he is not amhr registered bc i want him on my shetland show string.


----------



## Dona (Oct 20, 2007)

Celeste....you are remembering the same Shetland Ponies that I grew up with many years ago.




: They are NOT the same "Modern" Shetlands of today. When I was a kid, I had a neighbor who raised registered Shetland ponies. He had probably over a hundred of them...and they were short & stocky, definitely NOT the taller, refined Shetlands you see in the show ring today! The older style Shetlands were crossed with Hackneys to make them more refined. They are definitely stunning...much taller, refined with a lot of action (this comes from the Hackneys) But with all this..they also got the Hackney heads, which I personally do not like. :no:

I'll stay with my "little" Miniatures, who remind me of the Shetlands I had growing up.



:


----------



## kaykay (Oct 20, 2007)

Keep in mind that Foundation Shetlands cannot have an outcross I believe for 5 generations. This was done to keep the foundation type which is closer to what you guys remember. What confuses people is many classic shetlands also have the foundation seal.

Dona take a look at some classics and foundations. No hackney heads there!! For example here are some of my foundation/classic pony heads

Star











Jet has such a tiny head he is aspc only

/www.baxterspaintedpasture.com/sitebuilder/images/notice-303x287.jpg

Tease


----------



## disneyhorse (Oct 20, 2007)

AMERICAN shetlands have always been bred to exhibit more motion and a fancier type than their imported ancestors. Eventually breeders crossed Hackney and Welsh into the lines to make them even more extreme.

Here is a pony I just sold, he is a 34" Foundation Shetland (also registered as a mini) He is VERY tiny for a registered Shetland but you can see he is not "fat and stocky" by any means:






And then there is the MODERN American Shetland, these guys have hackney ponies on their pedigree a little ways back.

This is my senior mare:






This is my weanling colt:






My new yearling mare:






So you can see, registered Shetland ponies here in the US are what the American Miniature Horse is striving towards! I'd say in general, the miniature horse is more stocky and fat looking than the shetland pony, although the mini horse type is quickly changing that as the quality improves by leaps and bounds. Miniature horse people are "rediscovering" the shetland pony... where the mini came from in the first place!!!

Andrea


----------



## ClickMini (Oct 20, 2007)

I only have one full Shetland, she is a Classic and I received a letter that she is eligible for Foundation Seal, which I did not do yet as I didn't know how important it is. If she is still eligible (I don't see why she wouldn't be) when I bring her permanent, I will get the seal. She is far from short and fat. LOL! If she doesn't grow much more, I believe she will also be eligible for hardship into AMHA.






There is another pic of her in my avatar.


----------



## SweetOpal (Oct 20, 2007)

I think that the topic should be reversed, to say Miniature horses looking more like shetland ponies :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: just my opinion



:


----------



## kaykay (Oct 20, 2007)

I almost said the same thing jennifer! LOL


----------



## Leeana (Oct 20, 2007)

> kaykay Posted Today, 02:34 PM I almost said the same thing jennifer! LOL
> 
> SweetOpal Posted Today, 01:47 PM
> 
> I think that the topic should be reversed, to say Miniature horses looking more like shetland ponies just my opinion


I was thinking the same thing when i first read the post title


----------



## Celeste (Oct 21, 2007)

Well, in my opinion, and bear in mind that the world of horses is an entirely new one to me, I would have to say that the shetlands of today should be renamed as they don't look like the original shetland; they look more like a miniature horse. Why outcross a shetland with hackney horses in order to refine them and yet still call them a shetland pony?



:

The same applies to the world of dogs, when rough collies were miniaturised they didn't continue to call the smaller version by the name of "miniature rough collies" but instead aptly named them "shetland sheepdogs."



:


----------



## babygoose (Oct 21, 2007)

Celeste said:


> Well, in my opinion, and bear in mind that the world of horses is an entirely new one to me, I would have to say that the shetlands of today should be renamed as they don't look like the original shetland; they look more like a miniature horse. Why outcross a shetland with hackney horses in order to refine them and yet still call them a shetland pony?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. I watched the shetland pony show on RFD last week and the ponies look like hackneys, small saddlebreds maybe, nothing like the original shetland island ponies. I personally don't care for the high stepping gait that the modern shetland has. I am not at all familiar with how they are shown but it looks like their feet are long and possibly weighted. Their gaits looked un-natural to me, they were TOO animated. But to each their own.

I like the stubby little island shetlands. I can't be the only one that doesn't think that every horse has to be tall, leggy and animated? Why can't we have the old island shetlands and the more modern type. I also hate the thought of all minis becoming even smaller hackney types.


----------



## Leeana (Oct 21, 2007)

> I agree. I watched the shetland pony show on RFD last week and the ponies look like hackneys, small saddlebreds maybe, nothing like the original shetland island ponies. I personally don't care for the high stepping gait that the modern shetland has. I am not at all familiar with how they are shown but it looks like their feet are long and possibly weighted. Their gaits looked un-natural to me, they were TOO animated. But to each their own.
> I like the stubby little island shetlands. I can't be the only one that doesn't think that every horse has to be tall, leggy and animated? Why can't we have the old island shetlands and the more modern type. I also hate the thought of all minis becoming even smaller hackney types.


I dont think there is such a thing as *too much* animation ..its just one of the things i love about the breed, even the classics have a little extra animation, no such thing in my book. There is NO reason you cant have the island type shetland, but for those of us who love and enjoy the shetland breed because of how it has evolved i have to take a little affense to your words.

Just a thought, how many actual island shetland ponies do you think are in America? I really dought there are very many at all, prob be lucky if we have 50 of them in america. Even if you are just talking about the type of grade small short stocky ponies here in the states, i do not think many of those are actual island shetlands. If im wrong, please correct me but that is just my honest opinion.

I have a local friend who breeds Dartmoor ponies and imports all her stock, i wish i could get her to come on here as she also knows a great deal about Island shetlands and is in the process of importing one, i cannot wait until she gets here to go over and see her! She shows rare breed shows and CDE's, i cannot wait to see her next season!


----------



## Leeana (Oct 21, 2007)

> Why outcross a shetland with hackney horses in order to refine them and yet still call them a shetland pony?


Then why hardship a shetland into AMHR and call it a miniature when its a shetland??? Same scenario right ? I really think you are getting this backwards. The miniature horses are starting to take on the shetland pony appeal. The miniatures are the result of the shetland pony.

Also they did change the name from the original shetlands, they are registered as American Shetlands which is a completely different breed from the island bred shetlands oversea's and the grade shetlands you can find here in the states.

I hope other can answer your other questions.


----------



## outlawridge (Oct 21, 2007)

Just reading through these posts brought two things to mind. And this is just my own personal opinions and preferences. I love the old stocky Shetland ponies of my youth and in old paintings, and I miss seeing them. They were fun, robust, smart, and spunky little mounts. I learned to ride on just such a pony. I also enjoy seeing a beautiful, refined American Shetland. However, I don't think refinement is necessarily improvement, but rather see it as breeding horses for what is acceptable in the show ring, and peoples minds, of the times. There is nothing wrong with short and stocky if that is what the breed had been. But as was pointed out, they really are two different breeds.

Secondly, and this has always bothered me, whether it be dogs, cats, cows, horse, or whatever....How can we call a specific breed "pure" or by their breed name, when they have been crossed with other breeds? Doesn't this make them mixed breeds?? I realize that many of our breeds came about this way in the first place, but when this is done in the past several generations (which really isn't much time in the grand scheme of things) how can they be considered pure? I realize that there may be a limited gene pool or a need to improve (not just for type, but to actually improve a health concern etc) but that does not address the mixing of breeds issue to me. No insults intended, just something I can't quite understand.


----------



## babygoose (Oct 21, 2007)

Leeana said:


> > I agree. I watched the shetland pony show on RFD last week and the ponies look like hackneys, small saddlebreds maybe, nothing like the original shetland island ponies. I personally don't care for the high stepping gait that the modern shetland has. I am not at all familiar with how they are shown but it looks like their feet are long and possibly weighted. Their gaits looked un-natural to me, they were TOO animated. But to each their own.
> > I like the stubby little island shetlands. I can't be the only one that doesn't think that every horse has to be tall, leggy and animated? Why can't we have the old island shetlands and the more modern type. I also hate the thought of all minis becoming even smaller hackney types.
> 
> 
> ...


I don't mean to offend and I think you should be able to have the highly animated horses that you like. It isn't my preferance but I don't care if other people like it. I guess my point is why take any breed and then mix it with some other breed to make it more like the other breed? Why not get the other breed in the first place? Why take the stocky little island shetland and breed it to hackneys to "improve" the breed? Why not just buy a hackney? If big animated gaits are what someone wants, then why pick a breed that is totally opposite of that and then breed the gaits into it?

There aren't very many actual little stubby island shetlands in the US. I have already searched for them and if I want one I will have to import it. Again it is just a matter of preferance and what each individual likes.


----------



## ownedbyapony (Oct 21, 2007)

The older style Shetlands were crossed with Hackneys to make them more refined. They are definitely stunning...much taller, refined with a lot of action (this comes from the Hackneys) But with all this..they also got the Hackney heads, which I personally do not like.

OK, I guess I am in one of those moods this evening, but I Have to say, the above quote just really irritates the snot out of me. After being in the hackney business for 40 years, I have about had it with the comments about the ugly "Hackney" heads. Hackneys are like any other breed, there are pretty ones and there are those that are made to wear a bridle. I have seen just about as may ugly "mini" heads in the past few years as I have ugly hacknet heads, so please in the future may we just call them ugly period.......


----------



## Celeste (Oct 21, 2007)

outlawridge said:


> Just reading through these posts brought two things to mind. And this is just my own personal opinions and preferences. I love the old stocky Shetland ponies of my youth and in old paintings, and I miss seeing them. They were fun, robust, smart, and spunky little mounts. I learned to ride on just such a pony. I also enjoy seeing a beautiful, refined American Shetland. However, I don't think refinement is necessarily improvement, but rather see it as breeding horses for what is acceptable in the show ring, and peoples minds, of the times. There is nothing wrong with short and stocky if that is what the breed had been. But as was pointed out, they really are two different breeds.
> 
> Secondly, and this has always bothered me, whether it be dogs, cats, cows, horse, or whatever....How can we call a specific breed "pure" or by their breed name, when they have been crossed with other breeds? Doesn't this make them mixed breeds?? I realize that many of our breeds came about this way in the first place, but when this is done in the past several generations (which really isn't much time in the grand scheme of things) how can they be considered pure? I realize that there may be a limited gene pool or a need to improve (not just for type, but to actually improve a health concern etc) but that does not address the mixing of breeds issue to me. No insults intended, just something I can't quite understand.


That is exactly my point. The american 'shetland' is not a true shetland. It really should be renamed. When people first started to xbreed the rough collie with other breeds in order to create what is now know as the"shetland sheepdog" they came up with the name of "miniature collie" and there was quite an uproar from the rough collie fraternity so hence the name "shetland sheepdog" originated and with good reason.

Once a shetland pony is crossed with another breed of horse, namely Hackney, it is no longer a true shetland and hence should not be regarded as one either. And even after a few generations of this american shetland breeding true it is still not a shetland and breeders should seriously think of a more appropriate name, it is presently making a mockery of the true shetland, not to mention the confusion that it creates. As majestic as the american ponies may look they are not shetlands!



babygoose said:


> Leeana said:
> 
> 
> > > I agree. I watched the shetland pony show on RFD last week and the ponies look like hackneys, small saddlebreds maybe, nothing like the original shetland island ponies. I personally don't care for the high stepping gait that the modern shetland has. I am not at all familiar with how they are shown but it looks like their feet are long and possibly weighted. Their gaits looked un-natural to me, they were TOO animated. But to each their own.
> ...



The part of your comment that I have reprinted in bold is also something I define with. It is offensive that breeders take one breed of horse, cross it with another and then have the cheek to say that this is done to

"improve" the breed! Every horse or pony has its purpose and fair share of admirers and to want to change its qualities is not necessarily done with the intentions of "improving" the original breed but instead to create another one. Most so-called american shetlands look like small horses, they have no semblance of a shetland so hence should be renamed. I have nothing against what breeders have done to 'create' this miniature horse but calling it a shetland is too ridiculous for words.



:



Leeana said:


> > Why outcross a shetland with hackney horses in order to refine them and yet still call them a shetland pony?
> 
> 
> Then why hardship a shetland into AMHR and call it a miniature when its a shetland??? Same scenario right ? I really think you are getting this backwards. The miniature horses are starting to take on the shetland pony appeal. The miniatures are the result of the shetland pony.
> ...



Leeana, I beg to differ. I don't see that miniature horses are starting to look even remotedly like a shetland pony. The American Shetlands look like miniature horses, in fact in some photos they look like a horse and not even a miniature.


----------



## kaykay (Oct 21, 2007)

There is a group that was started for the island style ponies in the united states. They have a registry and shows but I cant locate the link.

Our Shetlands are called American Shetlands. I think the problem is many people automatically think of modern ponies when they hear American Shetland. If you really look at all the different divisions you will see they are quite different.

And lets not forget that Miniature Horses came from Shetland ponies



If you have gone to shows in the past 4 years (amha & amhr) you can definitely see the Shetland influence

Amber you are so right with the head comment!


----------



## Dona (Oct 21, 2007)

kaykay said:


> Keep in mind that Foundation Shetlands cannot have an outcross I believe for 5 generations. This was done to keep the foundation type which is closer to what you guys remember. What confuses people is many classic shetlands also have the foundation seal.
> 
> Dona take a look at some classics and foundations. No hackney heads there!! For example here are some of my foundation/classic pony heads
> 
> ...


Kay....your boy has a BEAUTIFUL head!



: I probably should have said, the "majority" of the Modern Shetlands I've seen have had the Hackney heads. I'm sure there are some out there with pretty heads like yours.



:


----------



## Dona (Oct 21, 2007)

ownedbyapony said:


> The older style Shetlands were crossed with Hackneys to make them more refined. They are definitely stunning...much taller, refined with a lot of action (this comes from the Hackneys) But with all this..they also got the Hackney heads, which I personally do not like.
> 
> OK, I guess I am in one of those moods this evening, but I Have to say, the above quote just really irritates the snot out of me. After being in the hackney business for 40 years, I have about had it with the comments about the ugly "Hackney" heads. Hackneys are like any other breed, there are pretty ones and there are those that are made to wear a bridle. I have seen just about as may ugly "mini" heads in the past few years as I have ugly hacknet heads, so please in the future may we just call them ugly period.......


I am sorry that my post "irritated the snot" out of you.



: But if you re-read my post....I didn't call Hackney heads "ugly". All I said was that I "personally" did not like them.



: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I just don't care for the straight or convex profile of the Hackney head. I'm sure there are Hackney lovers who adore them.



: I also, do not understand your comment "there are pretty ones, and there are those that are made to wear a bridle". Are you saying that pretty heads can't wear bridles?



:


----------



## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 21, 2007)

well I am not going to claim to be a pony expert( I am for sure just learning) but the minis of a few years ago did look very much like the shetlands of a few years ago as at one point they were one and the same.

I dont think minis are striving to be like Shetlands or vice versa they are seperate breeds owned and loved by everyone for reasons not cause they are the exact same.




: Although really the classics and foundations are pretty similar IMO and I am learning there really is a pretty noticable difference in the Moderns and Modern Pleasure ponies as well and then from that you have formal pleasure, road ponies pleasure ponies.. argh enough to make your head spin



: I am still trying to figure all of that out



:

I think that everyone has different ideas of what is fancy and refined- personally coming from Warmbloods I LOVE the hackney type of heads however the ponies themselves are not for me (Moderns)

I do think that both breeds are growing and everyone can find what they like without trying to melt them both into the same versions of eachother. and yet still appreciate the beauty in all pony types and the minis



:

and I have to also add almost every breed of horse was at one point crossed with other breeds to get what you have today


----------



## Leeana (Oct 21, 2007)

> Leeana, I beg to differ. I don't see that miniature horses are starting to look even remotedly like a shetland pony. The American Shetlands look like miniature horses, in fact in some photos they look like a horse and not even a miniature.


Then please go back and look at the horses that have won at AMHR nationals the past 4 or 5 years, ESPECIALLY in the over division and this year allot more were in the under division as well (Erica has one in the under division that is aspc/amhr that i believe went Grand at Nationals). The horses that have won at Nationals ARE shetlands, and look who own/bought those shetlands ..miniature horse breeders who bought an ASPC shetland that would make miniautre horse height and hardshipped it into amhr or one that was already aspc/amhr. Its very obvious, just go look at the show results from the past few years.

If the way you are saying is correct, then the shetland breed is going 'backwards' and not 'forwards', and i dont see that happening. Have you ever seen a aspc show? The shetlands look much more different then the miniature horses you are talking of and are shown differently, much differently.

Of the two (miniatures and shetlands), the shetland is the more refined breed of the two. Miniature horses are always striving to be more refined and almos exotic, that is where the shetland blood plays in!



> The American Shetlands look like miniature horses, in fact in some photos they look like a horse and not even a miniature


Isnt a minature horse a pony too? I do beleive so



.


----------



## disneyhorse (Oct 21, 2007)

I don't see what the big deal is... when the "old pony guys" in the past showed the classic American Shetland, they showed ALL of them like the Modern Shetland, before breeding in the hackney became "en vogue" it seems. They grew the toe long and bridled them up.

Unlike the Miniature Horse, the American Shetland DOES have two different "types"... the Modern and the Classic. The Classic is shown more like the Miniature horse is... those who have shown a Miniature horse can easily set up the Classic Shetland and show it aptly. The Classic Shetland is not the "island type" because that is NOT what the ORIGINAL breeders selected when they started importing. They imported the more refined of the island ponies to START with.

Americans have a LONG history in MANY breeds for selectively breeding an imported type to improve refinement, upheadedness, and action. It is NOT isolated to just the American Shetland.

In the extreme, DRAFT horse breeding/importation...

In Belgium, there is a breed called the "Belgian Brabant" this is what it looks like:






Well, the Americans imported those horses but bred them for more of a "Show type" just like they did with the imported Shetland ponies. The Belgian in America now looks like this for the most part:






They also did it with the second most popular draft horse in America, the french Percheron. If you go to France, this is the sort of Percheron you will probably find:






And in America, this is the sought-after type:






These types also are similar in dogs. The European breed of dogs are often different in "type" than they are in America.

The Registered American Shetland is it's OWN unique breed with it's OWN unique past. No one is saying that it is better than the original island Shetlands in Europe, but it is certainly different and it was created with a different purpose (showing versus surviving).

I think the Classic American Shetland is just a beautiful animal. And the Modern American Shetland I greatly admire for it's show ring abilities. And the original island Shetlands are just adorable little ponies. But they are distinctly different horses.

Andrea


----------



## Minimor (Oct 21, 2007)

I think there are two different meanings being given to the term "miniature horse" in this thread. The original poster said Shetlands are looking like miniature horses, as in "a full size horse in miniature" as opposed to Miniature Horse as in "AMHA/AMHR Miniature horse" as most others here have taken it. One term with two different meanings is confusing this discussion!

As I see it, there are some Miniature Horses (as in registered with the Mini registries) that look like Shetlands...as in the old island shetlands. We used to see a lot more of those a few years ago than we do now, but they are still around. There are some Miniature Horses that look very much like American Shetlands, obviously, since some are registered as both. Overall, though, IMO the American Shetlands that look most like small versions of full size horses are not those that are also registered as Miniatures. I've seen a number of photos of American Shetlands--especially harness photos--that if you see only the pony & the cart shafts (no cart or driver to give a size comparison) you could easily wonder if it is an American Shetland or a Morgan. I've yet to see a photo of a Miniature Horse that I would mistake for anything other than a Mini. The American Shetlands that are small enough to be registered as Minis aren't IMO just quite there yet when it comes to being mistaken for full size horses. Given a bit more time, yes, I think it will happen, but not just yet.

I don't personally have a problem with "Shetland" and "American Shetland" being names for two different "breeds" of pony. The American Shetland is based on the old Shetland blood, and even though the Hackney has been added in, the Shetland foundation is still there. The "American" added onto the name does signify the difference. I think some of the confusion comes in because so many people tend to drop the "American" and just refer to them as "Shetland" which does bring to mind the old island ponies we all grew up with as kids.

That's how Hackney can be added into a "purebred" breed--at its inception the American Shetland was an evolving breed--"open" to breeds other than Shetland (at least that's my understanding of the registry) After a certain point the books were closed to outside blood & now only papered American Shetlands can be used to produce American Shetlands....just the same as the Morgan breed. The Morgan breed is based on many different breeds/types of horses. Up until 1949 other breeds (such as Saddlebred) were allowed to be used for breeding. after that the book was closed, and only registered Morgans could be used for breeding. The breed is now considered "purebred" in spite of the Saddlebred blood that exists in the breed.


----------



## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Oct 21, 2007)

Minimor said:


> I think there are two different meanings being given to the term "miniature horse" in this thread. The original poster said Shetlands are looking like miniature horses, as in "a full size horse in miniature" as opposed to Miniature Horse as in "AMHA/AMHR Miniature horse" as most others here have taken it. One term with two different meanings is confusing this discussion!


I never even thought of it meaning that! Your right that could change everything! :bgrin


----------



## babygoose (Oct 21, 2007)

As disneyhorse pointed out, it isn't just shetlands that are being bred to be more upheaded and high stepping. Several breeds have been "improved" that way. To me it is not an improvement. The belgian and percheron were meant to be calm quiet draft animals that look like the european pictures that disneyhorse posted. What is wrong with leaving them that way? That is what I don't understand. What is the trend in America that everything has to be upheaded and high stepping? I also notice that a lot of these more "hitchy" drafts are hot and spooky. Now why would you want 2000 lbs of hot spooky animal? I realize that this is the current trend in the show ring. At a recent driving show, all the high stepping horses won, even though they were almost out of control in the arena, reared during the backup, would not stand still in the lineup, etc. I was very disapointed to see nice forward moving, quiet, horses placed lower because they weren't high steppers. My dressage background just can't accept the checked up headsets with no rounding, flexing, relaxed, movement. Heck, even the competitive dressage is going into this whole big moving hyperflexed behind the bit fad that is depressing to me, but that is a whole different subject and OT.


----------



## Minimor (Oct 21, 2007)

babygoose, I'd have to agree with you on the dressage aspect of your post--classical training seems to have gone by the wayside. Even if people TALK about how they do things the right thing, you generally don't see them riding/training the way they talk.

But, as someone who likes my horses to be hotter than a $2 pistol....I can't say that I fault the trend toward the more flashy, "up" horses in so many breeds. "hot" shouldn't mean nervous or spooky (though in some cases it does). "hot" should just be a flashier, more showy horse that has more fire and attitude/presence, and ideally that is combined with more action and a lot of athletic ability (not saying hot means extra athletic ability, just saying that I want the two things together!) That's what I want in a horse even if I'm not showing him, and yes, I do still expect my hot horses to be mannerly & well behaved--that is training, pure & simple. Poorly behaved horses in the show ring are generally that way because of deficient training, not because of they are hot and have a naturally animated way of going.


----------



## babygoose (Oct 21, 2007)

Minimor said:


> babygoose, I'd have to agree with you on the dressage aspect of your post--classical training seems to have gone by the wayside. Even if people TALK about how they do things the right thing, you generally don't see them riding/training the way they talk.
> 
> But, as someone who likes my horses to be hotter than a $2 pistol....I can't say that I fault the trend toward the more flashy, "up" horses in so many breeds. "hot" shouldn't mean nervous or spooky (though in some cases it does). "hot" should just be a flashier, more showy horse that has more fire and attitude/presence, and ideally that is combined with more action and a lot of athletic ability (not saying hot means extra athletic ability, just saying that I want the two things together!) That's what I want in a horse even if I'm not showing him, and yes, I do still expect my hot horses to be mannerly & well behaved--that is training, pure & simple. Poorly behaved horses in the show ring are generally that way because of deficient training, not because of they are hot and have a naturally animated way of going.


I agree on the hot and spooky. My trainer also likes hot horses but they are all well behaved and not spooky. I think I tend to lump them because I don't like hot OR spooky! Laid back and a bit lazy suits me fine!



But you are right, hot shouldn't necessarily mean spooky. And high action doesn't necessarily mean hot. The really high action just isn't attractive to me. I seems un-natural to me, especially when they are weighted. So hopefully there will always be a choice in horses that are high stepping or not. But the trend in what is winning in shows seems to indicate that the high action is going to be more common. And I still have to stick with my idea that taking a breed, be it shetland or belgian, and breeding high action into it makes no sense. And people will always disagree whether that is an "improvement" to the breed or not. Obviously I will say no.



:


----------



## kaykay (Oct 21, 2007)

But again why is it people always point out the Modern Shetland? It seems like that is all they think about when you say American Shetland. I pictured many of my shetlands on this thread. none have been weighted, banded etc.

Like I said earlier take a look at the modern pleasure, foundation and classic ponies. They are much different then a modern!


----------



## babygoose (Oct 21, 2007)

kaykay said:


> But again why is it people always point out the Modern Shetland? It seems like that is all they think about when you say American Shetland. I pictured many of my shetlands on this thread. none have been weighted, banded etc.
> 
> Like I said earlier take a look at the modern pleasure, foundation and classic ponies. They are much different then a modern!


I noticed during the RFD shetland show that there was a little diference between the moderns, foundation, and classic. Mostly that the foundations and classics had a little less high stepping movement. Your ponies are beautiful, but this is the kind of shetland I like and what I am looking for. If anybody knows of anyone breeding this kind of shetland in the US please let me know!

http://www.coppiceshetlands.co.uk/geldings.htm

And these!!

http://www.kellas-stud.co.uk/ponynews.htm


----------



## disneyhorse (Oct 21, 2007)

Hmmmm I don't think the Foundation and the Modern ponies look or are shown anything like each other! They are much different in type. The American Shetland should generally be a SIMILAR pony within the types, as they are not the imported type of the links you have shown, they are a much different breed.

Andrea


----------



## outlawridge (Oct 22, 2007)

babygoose said:


> I noticed during the RFD shetland show that there was a little diference between the moderns, foundation, and classic. Mostly that the foundations and classics had a little less high stepping movement. Your ponies are beautiful, but this is the kind of shetland I like and what I am looking for. If anybody knows of anyone breeding this kind of shetland in the US please let me know!
> 
> http://www.coppiceshetlands.co.uk/geldings.htm
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting these links! I sure enjoyed the photos. When you wrote "this is the kind of shetland I like and am looking for" you meant the ones in the links, not the shetland show, correct?? There is a local woman that has two UK Shetlands and I will ask if she is breeding and also where she obtained hers. Will let you know what I find out.


----------



## Celeste (Oct 22, 2007)

babygoose said:


> kaykay said:
> 
> 
> > But again why is it people always point out the Modern Shetland? It seems like that is all they think about when you say American Shetland. I pictured many of my shetlands on this thread. none have been weighted, banded etc.
> ...




Hi BG...I was wondering if this pony appeals to you? is this the look you are hoping to find?

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/Sar...argeWebview.jpg


----------



## kaykay (Oct 22, 2007)

There is a huge difference in the different types. Really to see it I think you need to go to a show in person or visit a farm that breeds the different types.

I finally found the web addy for the group that does the island shetlands island shetlands


----------



## babygoose (Oct 22, 2007)

outlawridge said:


> babygoose said:
> 
> 
> > I noticed during the RFD shetland show that there was a little diference between the moderns, foundation, and classic. Mostly that the foundations and classics had a little less high stepping movement. Your ponies are beautiful, but this is the kind of shetland I like and what I am looking for. If anybody knows of anyone breeding this kind of shetland in the US please let me know!
> ...


Yes, the ones in the links I posted are what I am looking for. Basically a Thelwell.

I honestly hope I don't offend anybody with the whole American Shetland vs Thelwell type shetland. I don't think I have ever seen a horse that I would consider ugly and the American Shetlands are beautiful. It is just the high stepping gait that I have never cared much for. And the classics and foundations are closer to what I am looking for. But for some reason the little Thelwell look just grabs me.

Celeste, the picture you linked to looks more like what I am looking for. Hard to tell for sure from one picture. Cute little guy though.


----------



## maplegum (Oct 22, 2007)

I was also very confused when I discovered the American Shetlands! They look nothing like the shetland ponies I have known all my life!! Growing up here in Australia, all kids grew up riding shetland ponies. Short, fat and fluffy.



:

I do love both of them, but I wish they didn't use the same name!


----------



## Leeana (Oct 23, 2007)

maplegum said:


> I was also very confused when I discovered the American Shetlands! They look nothing like the shetland ponies I have known all my life!! Growing up here in Australia, all kids grew up riding shetland ponies. Short, fat and fluffy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When i refere to my shetlands i always call them American Shetlands, that is the there name American Shetlands. The Island shetlands are called Island shetlands. They all have different names.

American Shetlands = Taller more refined American Breed

Island Shetland = Shorter stockier Island breed.

Then we also have many grade shetlands here in the united states and i think that is where all this mishap comes from. Everyone had a 'shetland pony' growing up they rode around and was short and fat, i think that is where all the mishap comes from. All this misunderstanding and (im sorry) wrong information started when we were children and our parents told us 'this is what a shetland pony is'. It seems to me anything that is short and fat is considered a shetland pony to most people and that just isnt right lol.

Im no expert, two years in the shetlands isnt much but i am very passionate about the breed.


----------

