# Predator strategy - guard donkey



## Foxhaven (Apr 2, 2013)

I have been nervous about mountain lions in our area. My plan, to date, has been:

1) 6 ft. high electric fence - hardly a deterrent for a determined lion

2) Putting Legend and Luke up at night, turning them out after sunrise

3) Making neighbors aware of the horses, training them on bringing horses in in the event of emergency (plan on a 'horse warming' party including BBQ and KY Derby inspired drinks.... we live in a great rural neighborhood)

4) worrying every time I go to work.

4) doesn't seem like a plan.

So I started asking around, and dogs (not an option, we have 7 and that is quite enough - they are show dogs, not stable mates to the horses) and donkeys are a recurrent theme for upping the protection a bit.

As I have learned about donkeys (mostly from Long Hopes Rescue here in Colorado) it seems a jennet would be my best bet for protection, but not a great combination with a stallion and gelding mini pair! A gelded jack is my only option, but I would need to find a proven guardian as they sometimes aren't as good. The other downside is, even gelded jacks can play rough, which might be an injury risk for our mini horses.

What say ye? Thoughts, experience with this?


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## Foxhaven (Apr 2, 2013)

Oh... and another advantage to a donk is, I would have a great companion for hunting wilderness. Cannot even bring a wheeled cart into wilderness. But that is just a side benefit, not the major consideration.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Apr 2, 2013)

Well, I had a mini mule for a while and he was pretty darn good as a guardian. I don't know how he would have been with a cougar but he sure kept the stray dogs on their toes and way from my horses. The only problem was he preferred the saddle horses to the minis and would mope if they went to pasture and he was left up with the minis. Because of this little quirk I sold him when I sold the saddle horses. He did learn to tolerate our house hold dogs but if there is any chance of your dogs getting in with a donkey or mule you should be aware that often they will try to so them serious harm. I too have worried about the predators around here since minis are about the size of a deer and would seem like a good bet to most of the larger predators like cougar, wolves and coyotes. Still the worst trouble seems to be the dogs that run in packs and want to chase/harass the horses. We have a law that says we can shoot a dog to defend our livestock so (even tho I'm a terrible shot and hate the idea of killing even an undesirable animal)I let it be known thro the neighbourhood that I would shoot the dogs no questions asked if they were here. All of a sudden the dogs quite showing up.... don't know why. Other than that I keep the horses safe by stalling them at night and keeping them in dry lots close to the house if I have to go anywhere in the day. In summer they are on pasture for a few hours in the morning and get hay in the afternoon or if I have to leave I give the hay in the morning and put them out on pasture in the afternoon/early evening. So far it has worked for me - 10 years and counting.


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## rabbitsfizz (Apr 2, 2013)

A Donkey would be no match for a Cougar, IMO, all it would do would be slow it down while it got eaten, which hardly seems fair.....

Oops, that will teach me not to hit post before I am ready!!

I would stick with the electric fence, add lights (you can set motion detectors to activate when the animal reaches a certain level, as in jumping up ) and put an "overhang" on the outside of the electric fence. I would also bring the boys in at night...


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## Foxhaven (Apr 2, 2013)

Overhang, check. @ 6' right now. A motivated cat will spring over a 10' fence though.

Lights, yep, didn't mention it but it is part of the plan. I was stunned when a trainer at a stable near here repeated a story about a cougar DIGGING INTO the stall of a neighbor's llama to get it.






Lights won't do much about a cat hunting in daylight though. Rare, but observed (by the same trainer). The stable is 4 miles from me as the crow flies.

Another idea from a neighbor who also lost a llama to a cat - have a talk radio station going at night. Predators hear the human voices and become wary.

I also had misgivings about the donkey being a kind of decoy. But wildlife officials will tell you that, when encountering a cat, to stand your ground and make yourself as big as you can and make a bunch of noise - NEVER run (triggers the prey drive). All of this is exactly what a donkey will do - so while not a match for a cat, it might be enough to make the cat think twice about an easy lunch.

No idea what the horses would do, but running would probably come to the top of the list... exactly the WRONG thing to do. With any luck, the donkey may embolden the horses. And the trainer thought the stallion might be first to imitate him, by nature.


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## HGFarm (Apr 2, 2013)

I know someone who had a gelded donkey and he was even to rough to leave out with their grown boys... didnt work out at all. You could try electric fence at the top and bottomish... and bring them in at night.


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## MountainWoman (Apr 2, 2013)

Are you talking about mini donkeys or full size donkeys? A mini donkey (jack or jenny) is no match for a mountain lion. I have mini donkeys and they are not helpful as guard animals at all. My dominant mini mare chases more intruders out of the pasture while my donkeys are laid back. I can't tell you about standard donkeys as I have no experience with them but because donkeys sometimes turn and kick if they are annoyed, I personally wouldn't put a standard donkey with a mini horse.

Donkeys also bond strongly to their own kind and really thrive with another donkey companion. My donkeys do play fairly roughly with each other but because they have each other, they don't bother the horses at all.

As to donkeys standing their ground, all I can say is each donkey is an individual and mine only stand their ground when you want them to do something they don't want to do.





I've heard llamas make great pasture guardians so you might want to think about them if you have an appropriate set up.

I know how dangerous mountain lions can be and I can understand why you are worried. I would be as well.


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## Shari (Apr 2, 2013)

Place down the road when I lived in WA, had black faced scottish sheep. They had a full sized guard donkey.... Cougar ate it and ate and killed two sheep.

Cougar will pull down a donkey, llama.. or alpaca. They are easy food.
Sure most of you will remember what happened to Ella, she was a B sized Donkey and I didn't get her to guard... but it didn't stop a Bobcat from laying her face open and clawing her hindend.

My Icelandic horse saved her.

Only way to sleep at night is put all the animals in a locked barn or build something like the 2 1/2 acre* Night pasture* we had in Oregon.

8' tall fence on the small flat area, but every where else the fence was 9 to 10' to a predator....and in Oregon, we had lots of very aggressive and active predators.

This is when we first put it up, there was another wire put on the top. It did keep the Black Bears, cougars, coyotes packs and Bobcats out of that pasture. Most that happened to it, a Black Bear slightly bent

one of the T Posts. Also had the heaviest hot wire and a predator rated charger.






And don't forget the gate... put sweeps and hot wire on it. DH likes to sleep at night.


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## Renee (Apr 2, 2013)

Wow! That is some fence!


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## Rhondaalaska (Apr 2, 2013)

What if as well as lights activated with motion you made loud sounds activate as well like a loud horn.

Cats are scared of loud noises.


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## Minimor (Apr 2, 2013)

I agree--do not count on a donkey (or a llama) to protect against a cougar. A cougar will take down a full size donkey as easy as anything. Predator fence and a closed up barn are your best options. If I were to get a guardian in your situation it would have to be two anatolian shepherds--they are about the only guardians I would trust to take on a big cat & win.


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## Shari (Apr 3, 2013)

Rhondaalaska said:


> What if as well as lights activated with motion you made loud sounds activate as well like a loud horn.
> 
> Cats are scared of loud noises.


They get used to that fast........ and you can tick the neighbors off.


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## Double T (Apr 3, 2013)

Dogs will help, if they are big ones and have a big bark, that can sometimes deter them. But if it makes your place it's regular circle they can get used to the dogs barking and ignore it. For one passing through though it may help. Leaving a radio on can help too, but if one is prowling it'll probably get used to the sound and immune. Honestly I'd shoot on site. Watch for tracks, and set traps if you find any, or get a lion hunter out to do it for you, if you aren't familiar with it. I've also found out that chickens and fowl will draw 'em in too. I've had my roosters crowing at 2 am before=classic calling in the predators for the most part.

I feel your pain though. We live in prime lion country, and had what had to be a young one that was just recently kicked off and not good at hunting come through one night. DH has working cowdogs and they went to having a fit about 10 pm one night. Figuring it was the coyotes coming back, DH stepped out with a flashlight and his rifle. It was circling my chicken house trying to figure out how to get in and get a chicken. He shot at it and missed and scared it off. Got lucky becuase not 50 yards away my minis were penned and a big horse was penned also, and he didn't bother the horses. Hence the deal of it had to be a young inexperienced kitten.

I do have a mini donkey that stays with my mini horses, but in all honesty, he may run the dogs out of the pen, and the cat. But anything bigger and he'd be the lead guy showing them the way out. LOL Stand and fight is not in his vocabulary.


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## Foxhaven (Apr 3, 2013)

I was thinking about a small standard donkey, not a mini. I do know that some donkeys bond well with minis are are no problem. Depends on the donkey.

Some of the suggestions were in my OP already (lights, putting them up at night). The fence is not far off of that massive fence, except the field fence is shorter. And I used equine rope instead of bare wire. The elk ranch down the street has a lion proof fence... 14' chain link with barbed wire at the top. That's not gonna happen. Really, a 10' fence even, is not lion proof. The neighbors have llamas and lost one to a lion a few years ago... a young lion, collared, who didn't belong in the area and was live trapped by the DOW.

Mostly looking for information on folks who have used a small standard donkey as a guard animal, during the DAY. Sounds like, protection against coyotes (we have those too) would be good.


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## Helicopter (Apr 3, 2013)

A small standard donkey would be a nice snack for mountain lion. Don't do it please,

My suggestion....move to Australia



Kangaroos and wombats aren't interested in minis.

I have seen my 4 donkeys chase a fox across the paddock but I've also seen them stand in a circle curiously inspecting a baby hare.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Apr 3, 2013)

Helicopter, don't you have dingos to deal with down under? Predators are found every where I think, and of course you still have stray dogs.

Of course moving to Australia would still be an option, I'd like to live there for at least part of the year (when its winter here



)


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## ohmt (Apr 3, 2013)

We have a small mammoth donkey that just didn't grow as big as his parents so he is the size of a large shetland, but big boned. He was bottle raised by us and we kept him with the mares who raised him. He is AWESOME, but the catch is that I'm pretty sure he would really fluster any one other than us who try to take a mare out of the pasture. He is extremely possessive and he makes a whole lot of noise. We don't have neighbors any closer than a mile, and very few visitors or I would worry. Since he has arrived we have not had any more coyote problems. Only a few trees on the 20 acres so he could maybe put up a little fight if a mountain lion ever wandered this way, but mountain lions are very rare around here. We don't completely rely on him, but he has done a wonderful job so far. He stands in the doorway of their barn at night like he's standing guard. Really neat. Plus he's our big baby, of course. He loves to have those big ears rubbed


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## Minimor (Apr 3, 2013)

In all honesty there is a big difference between coyotes and cougars (we do have both here) when it comes to a donkey fighting them off. I would point out that a cougar does not need trees in order to attack a horse--even a full size horse. The cat will wait and catch the horse laying down and then land on top---of the horses killed in this area, the cougar has got them laying down, in the open pasture...one was in a corral, no cover around it for the cat...the cat rarely has to drop from a tree to get a horse, and lack of cover won't deter a hungry cat--that's been proven several times in this general area.


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## ohmt (Apr 3, 2013)

Absolutely, just pointing out that it would probably be easier to fend one off without the trees. Almost all attacks in our area are tree attacks, but we are in the red river valley which used to be lake bottom so it is literally completely flat and due to flooding there are few places they would be able to hide otherwise. But, they are extremely rare here and coyotes only come after our chickens. "BoDiddly" is just a bottle baby that made himself into the "mare guard"


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## Marty (Apr 4, 2013)

I'd go for Shari's fence and putting the horses in a safe barn.

Our back field is double fenced. The outter fence was here when we came and there were a huge number of bramble bushes and very tall thorny thick stuff like a fortrace all grown up with it. I couldn't get through that mess if I tried my hardest. My hus was about to tear it all down and clear it up nicly, but I thought it would be a very good extra way of stopping stray dogs from getting in. I was right and it really works. No kind of beast can get through it without getting all tangeled up in it not to mention all torn up so we left it and then went six feet in front of it with our fence. Not saying it will stop a mountain lion but can surely make him reconsider. If you booby trap something like this along the outside of your fence you can also hang cow bells on it which might startle them. Good luck.


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## Magic Marker Minis (Apr 4, 2013)

Holy crap! That looks like Jurassic Park!

I've been giving some thought to where to move to in Colorado... I'm very familiar with Evergreen, since I lived in Denver and workmates and friends in Evergreen. Can be very wild in that area...

I gave some thought to Westcliffe area... Love the idea of the high mountain valley... snow melt on both sides would create lush pasture; however, I was also thinking of the bears and mountain lions and what we'd do to protect our minis and goats...

So, now I'm thinking further east, like the Lower Arkansas River Valley (La Junta, etc.) The biggest prey out there would (probably) be coyotes... We can handle them. We have LGDs that can take them out (theoretically).

But, also, I've also thought the best thing to do is bring the animals in closer to the house in drylots and/or the barn. A layered defense system is the best bet. We also have a big horse stallion that is really full of himself... I expect he would take on a coyote as he tries to take out/play with our pit bull cross, which is about the size of a small coyote...

Instead of a guard donkey, though, I'd rather get a Mustang from the BLM. They would be better prepared to fight off a predator since they live out there in the wilderness to begin with.

Kari



Shari said:


> Place down the road when I lived in WA, had black faced scottish sheep. They had a full sized guard donkey.... Cougar ate it and ate and killed two sheep.
> 
> Cougar will pull down a donkey, llama.. or alpaca. They are easy food.
> Sure most of you will remember what happened to Ella, she was a B sized Donkey and I didn't get her to guard... but it didn't stop a Bobcat from laying her face open and clawing her hindend.
> ...


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## rabbitsfizz (Apr 4, 2013)

Yes, well, hate to point it out but we all know what happened in Jurassic Park when the electric went down......

The fence looks as if it would be a real deterrent though, and I would certainly go that way- hopefully with a mains link up and the ability to crank up the voltage at night. I don't think I could leave them out at night though, I think I would worry too much. A good strong barn with alarms all over it, I think would be my choice. Also, would it be possible to put an extra wire about three foot outside the fence, at cat/coyote nose level? If they cannot get a good place to jump from they may just give up. At the end of the day, everything is going to be just a deterrent, but I don't think a donkey would be even that, I think it would just be lunch!!


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## Foxhaven (Apr 4, 2013)

Well, I went to the Lakewood Riding Club last night (formed in 1947, pretty cool history). I was one of two men there of course...

Holy cow, LOTS of information. When I brought up my questions, one of the leaders (who has minis and has had donkeys) stated that in a confrontation with a lion and a donkey..... she would put money on the donkey. She is super impressed with their toughness and attitude. While a comparison between tooth and claw would clearly favor the lion, it comes down to psychology: the lion is looking for a meal, not a fight or confrontation. She will move on to something that runs away.

That's why you never EVER EVER run away from a cougar.

She also thought that a jennet or gelding would not be all THAT dissimilar in protective instinct. She confirmed finding one with a good history with minis would be a wise path.

I am much encouraged.


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## Foxhaven (Apr 4, 2013)

Oh, FWIW, I believe a 2.5 joule fence power unit can run between 5KV and 10KV... probably enough! The complicating factor is potential to ground, and insulators (like thick fur, more like an insulator than a conductor). That's why I alternated hot and ground wires in the fence... increases the likelihood of that 10KV showing full potential across a predator's body because at least part of their body will be touching ground when the other part touches a hot wire.

Power outages are quite rare here but a UPS would cover it.  In any event, they will be put up at night. After the cat digging through to the stall story, putting field fence on (or just below) the ground all around the barn took on attractiveness to me.

Fortunately the barn is quite close to the house and will be decently lighted.


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## Minimor (Apr 4, 2013)

http://www.goldendalesentinel.com/story/2013/03/13/features/cougar-shot-after-killing-donkey/2250.html

This one doesn't say how big the donkey was:

http://www.lakesideleader.com/2012/121107/week45.pdf


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## Foxhaven (Apr 4, 2013)

Yep. Nothing is sure.


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## Helicopter (Apr 4, 2013)

No, dingos wouldn't bother minis. Infact in my 60plus years I've never seen a dingo outside of a zoo and I've travelled extensively.

A pack of dogs........well that would be another story. Fortunately I haven't seen any of those either. Touch wood!

A pack of wild humans would be the biggest threat.


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## MountainWoman (Apr 4, 2013)

Well, I'm sure glad all we have roaming around are bears and coyotes and foxes and the occasional moose. Although two years ago during an early spring thaw a bear close to my farm did kill a donkey who got between the bear and the food he wanted.

I always wanted to move to Colorado before this thread.


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## Foxhaven (Apr 4, 2013)

LOL... cougars have a great range. One was collared and tracked from ALBERTA down the Rockies until he was killed by a car in KANSAS! Changed a lot of thinking about cougar migration and range.

Don't let this sour you on Colorado... it's just where we live is prime cougar habitat. They have good taste in real estate.


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## rabbitsfizz (Apr 5, 2013)

I still think donkeys are so much cougar lunch- maybe the people you were talking to had no emotional investment in the donkey- if you view something as expendable then I suppose it is worth a try.


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## Foxhaven (Apr 5, 2013)

No animal is expendable. Even when I take a life hunting it is bittersweet and I am fully aware of the cost and treat that life as sacred gift.

They do have more adaptive behavior than running away though. Probably why burros survive well in the wild.

Just another layer of countermeasures and defense.


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## little lady (Apr 5, 2013)

If we had to concern ourselves with the cougars/bears etc I would be putting up a fence like Shari's, followed by second defense of a donkey and anything else that may help. I would also keep them in of a night in a secure barn. Actually I would keep them in the barn at the highest time frame from hunting, like around here it is typically dusk and dawn(for coyotes so far but have had sightings of cougars). Sounds like you are doing your homework thoroughly and best of luck. Please share pics and what you do, would be a great learning tool for the rest of us.


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## Shari (Apr 5, 2013)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Yes, well, hate to point it out but we all know what happened in Jurassic Park when the electric went down......
> 
> The fence looks as if it would be a real deterrent though, and I would certainly go that way- hopefully with a mains link up and the ability to crank up the voltage at night. I don't think I could leave them out at night though, I think I would worry too much. A good strong barn with alarms all over it, I think would be my choice. Also, would it be possible to put an extra wire about three foot outside the fence, at cat/coyote nose level? If they cannot get a good place to jump from they may just give up. At the end of the day, everything is going to be just a deterrent, but I don't think a donkey would be even that, I think it would just be lunch!!


I have a predator/Sheep rated charger.... you touch that and one hurts like heck for 15 minutes. We make sure it is properly grounded and the rods are watered when it is dry out.

Didn't have any problems the few times the power went down. But DH build's strong fencing..... he said, Running out in the Middle of the night in his underwear and a shot gun is over rated. LOL

You can see, some Hot wire up around the outside of that fence. (picture was taken before all the hot wire was up)

My Icelandic's go nuts closed in barns. So this was our best option.


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## rabbitsfizz (Apr 5, 2013)

Possibly DH charging out in his underwear would be the greatest deterrent of all......


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## Foxhaven (Apr 11, 2013)

This last weekend we went to an equine rescue place not far away. They have two donkeys. One, bless him, had docked ears from frostbite. His hard life gets easier from this point. The other was definitely an alpha gelding (recent geld). I found out more about his history- he came in with a mini stallion stud (also gelded when he was seized) and defers to him! He much prefers minis to the other donkey. And prefers people most of all... he would let me do nearly anything with him, will stand for a farrier, I can lean on him and fiddle with his muzzle, he is fine with it. Conformationally he looks pretty good too (in the legs and movement especially). About 550 lbs.

He reminded me of a big puppy (minus the hyperness). About 6 years old.

When we walked him past a herd of minis, he was EXTREMELY interested in them and let out a beautiful bray. OK.... maybe I have an odd sense of beauty... LOL.

Since I have two pastures presently getting everybody used to each other seems doable. This might be a rare, good match. Looks like my barn building isn't going to stop as soon as I'd hoped.


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## Magic (Apr 12, 2013)

We live less than half a mile from a range of mountains that are a protected Wilderness Area with numerous mountain lions in residence. Neighbors have seen lions right in their yards, even during the day. In the seven years we've lived here we haven't seen any mountain lions, or any evidence of any having been around, but we have two Livestock Guardian Dogs, a female Anatolian and a male Anatolian/Great Pyreness mix. The dogs have full access to all of the pastures and are extremely diligent about watching for any kind of possible threat and warning them off. A mountain lion won't even consider taking on two big dogs, it's far too much of a risk for a big cat to take.


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## wingnut (Apr 12, 2013)

Note to self: when assessing areas to move to in a few years, remember to check in to prevalence of predator animals!

Yikes!!!! We have nothing like this to worry about in Maryland. We're even lucky that "roaming" dogs are never an issue for us either.

OP: I wish you the best in finding the right solution!!!


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## Pam Crise (Apr 12, 2013)

We have a mountain lion that runs the river and part of the timber we live in. I got a mini mule - I got him for his ears not for him taking on the cat. (-: He knows when the cat is out and about before the horses and he will put his herd into the barn. They are there until he says they can go out. He's in with 6 miniatures and our old Arab can get into his barn (not the same part of the stalls or lot-not physically together). I have connecting lots with 12 other minis. Even though they are not physically in his lot/part of the barn they also will go in when he puts away his herd. Normally he is not at the top of the pecking order. We put up 9' fence with a kicker bar (as I like to call it) of two lines of power at the top. They slant out like the prison fence tops. We had a vet student here once who had worked with grey wolves and mountain lions. Like others have said- she said it can easily go over our fence at this height. But she said - they are basicly lazy and will hear the electric fence and should move on to easier prey. He has done one kill within 2 miles of us.Took down a POA stallion who was by himself, did not kill him, must have decided he was too much work and killed the cow next to him instead. The owners had to put down the POA. This was between 1-4 in the afternoon - broad day light. I believe they kill and eat whenever they feel like it not according to day or night. We also have a radio playing at all times through the entire barn and motion lights. Horses are on dry lots and go to pasture when we are out doing chorses to be able to keep an eye on them. The mule is gelded - yes he can play pretty rough when he feels like it. The minis have handled it well - they are all his size or a little bigger. After watching him I don't think I'd put a full size mule in with minis - alot of damage could be done. We have two dogs who can not get into his area (with the horses at all) unless we let them in. We keep them with us when he is about because he will drill them - fast. I know a stray dog would not walk out of his lot. I have been told they will kill foals thinking they are prediators. We do not foal so its not an issue here. He knows his job and he takes it very seriously.


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## Foxhaven (Apr 19, 2013)

Well, things are falling into place. Of course, way faster than I planned... and the snow keeps falling here, way more than I expected (WILL not complain of moisture, WILL not complain of moisture... ;-) )

Looks like I need to build another tack / feed shed, but glad we thought ahead. We will have plenty of stall space. Hay storage will temporarily be pallet and tarp in an enclosed area. I have a week to finish and it is starting to seem doable. Including working from home for a week or most of, to keep an eye on them as they share a fence. Since the donkey has a history of deferring to a mini stallion he was seized with, and prefers minis to another donkey, the odds of things working out seem favorable.

Thanks for the story of the mule Pam. Though we are in a similar habitat, it seems like your lion exposure is quite a bit greater than ours! Your description of behaviors matches others we have talked to.

Life is risk. You just try to minimize it where you can.


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## Foxhaven (May 1, 2013)

Luke, Legend, and Samwise the donkey are home.

What an amazing animal. Sam was rescued and has had a hard life, but he is the sweetest, gentlest equine I've met. But he is NOT a horse, and you cannot handle him like a horse. This is going to be a journey of discovery. I can see why they have a reputation for stubbornness, but I think that says more about the human handler than the donkey. No, he will comply... he just needs some time to consider it.

After they've shared a fenceline for a couple days, I have been briefly introducing them to the same pasture under supervision. The biggest problem is our yearling! He is a little pill. He nips Sam's hocks, flanks, neck, chest, forelegs, and the most Sam does is a gentle pushing kick and lippy nibble of correction. Legend touches noses with Sam - and lets out a squeal. Then they stand there sniffing each other. Sam seems to prefer being with the minis to being next to them.

Yesterday I observed some very interesting behavior. Our smaller dogs, a Sheltie and Eskimo, were in the dog yard that abuts the paddock. Ty the Sheltie has been very interested in the horses, and they him - he just sniffs them and quietly wags. Well, with Sam there, I saw Sam intervene himself between the dogs and the minis, ears flat back, and running to the fence to give it a warning STAY AWAY! kick.

Then when I was separating them later, Sam took a moment to consider walking through the open gate. Luke the yearling needed no such time... and darted into the larger paddock. DOH! Sam of course followed. Now I needed to catch Luke, and Luke of course thought this was great fun - running in circles, avoiding me, running to Sam and nipping his chin, repeat until done. So I finally started to corner Luke, and Sam did NOT like that! He approached me from behind, ears flat and unhappy that I would corner Luke. He didn't act aggressively beyond that - and I praised him of course.

But this is exactly the kind of guarding behavior I was hoping for! And they seem to be forming a herd.

So far so good.

Sam came to me with a bit of an infection in his left rear hoof, I've been cleaning it and treating it with peroxide and Betadine as able. Doesn't seem to bother him until I go messing with it. Kinda worrisome that they didn't pick his hoofs much at the rescue place.


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## Foxhaven (May 1, 2013)

Oh, and apparently Sam has concluded bad things happen in closed in places. It took three to get him in my trailer, and it took three to get him in his stall the first night. Ever try to move a donkey that won't be moved?

Second night, it took my wife and myself (and a couple carrots of course).

Third night, it took me, and my wife tapping his rear rhythmically with a longe whip handle... and carrots at the end.

Last night he walked in with me holding the stall door open. And carrots of course.

I need to buy more carrots.


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (May 1, 2013)

Those long ears are for sure different than horses with a whole different level of intelligence. When they decide to trust you they are great but make them decide you are not worthy of their trust and you have real problems. When I owned the small mule he defended his herd from a marauding porcupine (which was just minding its own business, bumbling along I'm sure lol)and cam back from pasture with a nose full of quills for putting it where it wasn't wanted. Unlike a horse, when I pulled those quills (lost count in the 30s somewhere) the most he struggled was to turn his head and squeeze his eyes shut each time I yanked another out. Any horse I've ever had to do that with (or seen it done) is either tranqed first or gets very agitated. But when I first got Festus (love the name Samwise btw perfect for a donkey



) he had a reputation for being hard to lead and indeed we had issues if he was allowed to forge ahead for some time but by the end of the first year he was pretty easy to deal with, I think by then he had us trained better lol. Have fun with your new addition.


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## Foxhaven (May 1, 2013)

Yeah, there is a question who is really in charge. With a horse, you gotta settle that question. With a donkey... would be interesting to see how that strategy would work for ya...

I ask, he thinks about it... I need to make it worth his while. Then he is quite agreeable. Getting him into the stall was not optional (safety) the first night, but the truth is, when he finally went in he had decided to yield. I suppose a better plan would be, give him the time he needs to decide what I ask is really OK.

Seems more like a marriage really. A cooperation among equals.





What's amusing is, how our 29" yearling is turning out to be the boss of big ol' Sam. I just wanna go out there and tell him, BUTT the little sonofagun and stand your ground buddy! Oh well, that's theirs to figure out.


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## rabbitsfizz (May 2, 2013)

Sounds like you have a new friend! Donkeys are awesome, but they do not speak "horse" I ended up buying another to keep mine company as she was SO lonely. I am also not convinced that Sam is not just going to end up as cat food, I really hope not as you have obviously bonded! My second Donkey was an even better guard than the first, btw, as the first was, like yours, a rescue and had been on a chain, so had given up trying to chase things. The other one was a hoot- flapped the ears, honked the honk and had a large and only playful but still dangerous, dog out of the field in two seconds flat. The broodmares just stood and watched her go past with their eyebrows raised (I had Arabs at the time, not Minis) they were not bothered by the noise as they had got used to it with the first Donkey.

As I said I don't think Sam will be any good against Cougars but he will be a BIG friend to you, and they are so intelligent.


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## MountainWoman (May 2, 2013)

You are right. You can't tell or make donkeys do anything. You have to reason with them and then allow them time to make the right decision. As they bond with you more and more, they will trust you and be quicker to do what you want them to do. I agree with Jane that you need another donkey. Just because your boy didn't care for the other donkey in rescue doesn't mean he wouldn't love a donkey buddy. My little gelded Jack loved the mini boys but when I turned him out with the donkey jennys, he was so much happier because they "speak" donkey. If you decided to get another donkey, they'd still be good company for the minis.

Jane, I don't think FoxHaven's donkey will end up being eaten by the mountain lions. He has the most awesome barn and quite the fencing set up. He's a really good donkey/mini parent in looking after their needs and safety.

Here's to no mountain lion encounters and only run ins with the gorgeous elk!


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## Foxhaven (May 3, 2013)

Thanks for the kind words!

Sam is less likely to be cat food than the minis. His role is to guard during the day, (all are put up during the evenings) and from what I have observed he knows his job. He is actually quite maternal... especially to Luke the annoying yearling. Watches him like a hawk when he is out but Sam is in the stall (sometimes Luke has a different agenda in the evenings... LOL). We took the minis for their daily walk on the mile loop yesterday, and Sam let out a glorious bray or three as we went out of sight... And Legend answered with several whinneys. To which Sam answered again. He was delighted when we returned!

The thing about Sam is, he was raised with minis, not donkeys. He is imprinted on them. At the rescue he much preferred minis to other donkeys. I am discovering that Sam is quite the rare find - Longhopes Donkey Rescue said that if I found one such as Samwise it would be rare indeed, and a good match.... and I am finding that to be so. They didn't have one in their 65 rescues, but had seen it. The gal I talked to also had rescued a donkey who imprinted on horses and took her home as a horse companion because she really didn't get along with the other donkeys, but loves her horse buddy.

I cannot believe how generous God has been all through this great adventure!


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## MountainWoman (May 3, 2013)

You'll find that once he is settled in, he'll walk along right with you when you take the minis on a walk. You won't have to reason with him. He'll just be your shadow especially when you have his buddies along. He'll love going with you. Sounds like a happy trio you have.


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