# 100 Minis Confiscated and in Need of Help



## ohmt (Sep 16, 2012)

I was going to leave names out, but they have been given in the news segment about the 100 minis and MANY cats, dogs, chickens, goats, etc. that were confiscated from Cave Junction, Oregon.

Let's try to get these horses and other animals the help they need.

 Forwarded Message -----

From: Diane Dorigan <[email protected]>

To: 

Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:30 PM

Subject: Abused horses confiscated

 

Hi Friends,

Here’s a note from Lisa:

Ok everyone, I hope you know that Crows Nest Minis of Cave Junction OR on Friday was busted for animal abuse, and about 100 minis were taken from her facility. Dead animals all over, denial from owners, all visible on KDRV channel 12. Josephine county is broke. Animal control is going to have a heck of a time feeding this many animals. Please consider a donation of hay, or money, or opening your facility, if they need it. Call the Josephine county sheriff's office to see how you can help them. This puppy/pony mill needed to be taken down, and now the animals need our help. Please join me in helping Thanks. Lisa





 link to Youtube video about this story.


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## MindyLee (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh how sad.

At least from the video, the animals looked like they ate well. Just too many animals to look after and stuff got out of hand.


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## Ashley (Sep 16, 2012)

Well from the video I wouldnt say there is abuse. There is no way to know how the animals died. Yes prob way to many animals however I dont see classic neglect.


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## Carolyn R (Sep 16, 2012)

Crappy set up and clutter, but I agree with what has been said. If the acreage/pasture is there, which they are being herded off of, should the county be moving them? Seems more logical to take the dogs, cats, birds and whatever small animals and leave the grazing animals while searching for homes for them. Or work with the owner to decrease the numbers. I am not out west, so I don't know the magnitude of their dealings or misdoings, I am sure there are places on the east coast that we all know to stay away from, but people out west would be clueless to the places and names.


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## Tremor (Sep 16, 2012)

I agree with the fact that there are too many animals and things got out of hand. All of the animals look well fed.

I don't think you can claim abuse for finding animal skulls. They're in the country and for all you know those animals were taken by coyotes. Some people think cats are just barn cats and have a job; mice hunting. Same with the birds. How could you claim abuse for finding bird remains? They could have been other breeds or been prey.

They ought to be confilscating the animals that are obviously neglected; lack of vet care, lack of farrier care, emaciated, hoarding, etc.


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## charlottein (Sep 16, 2012)

Ya they look well fed and the Pomeranian they keep showing is well groomed and bathed - those dogs mat easily and he is white. Looks like too many but they are in pretty good health it looks like.


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## Joanne (Sep 16, 2012)

For those of us on the west coast this is no surprise. The registries have had problems for years with this facility.


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## lexischase (Sep 16, 2012)

I am involved with rescuing, does anyone know the status on the minis? Or who I can contact (phone number wise, or email) about placing the minis? Thanks!


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## 2minis4us (Sep 16, 2012)

Ditto to what Joanne said, but from what I saw on the video the horses did not look starved. They have posted many ads on Craigslist lately trying to sell the minis.


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## lexischase (Sep 16, 2012)

Could you post a link to one of the ads please?


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## Snapple (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't think any of us can decide from watching a minute and a half long video, a good bit of which is people talking, whether or not those animals were cared for. The horses *look* to be in good weight. But are they being wormed regularly? Are any older horses on the property, or horses with medical issues being cared for properly? Out of 100 horses, the odds of every one of those horses being in the pink of health and able to live off of pasture alone is slim. Were they given proper hoof care? We were just shown a handful out of 100.

Yes, that small dog looked ok. What about the other dogs? I saw at least one larger dog being kept in an outdoor pen. Was he fed properly? Being given water? They did not say where they found those dog bones. If they were found inside a pen, then what are the odds a coyote or predator killed them? For that matter, the few skulls they chose to show may not be the only bodies found. I doubt the news really wanted to broadcast rotting animal carcasses. They may well have found other bodies, maybe even those of some of the minis, given that they said they had found some in a field.

I doubt that the local authorities chose to seize that many animals if they were not truly in danger.


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## Lizzie (Sep 16, 2012)

There are several movies of this place, on the net. Some show many (obviously recent) dead dogs and birds. At least two decomposing dead Minis. Those who entered the property, said the stench was overwhelming. The trash piled up around the house, almost hid it, in some places. It was obvious, that no cages or enclosures, had ever been cleaned. I'm so glad that the authorities are actually doing something about it.

Lizzie


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## sedeh (Sep 16, 2012)

Unfortunately this breeder has been in our county for a long time and it's not the first time her animals have been confiscated. She gets most of them back and moves to a new location and starts all over. She has been known to just let the dead animals lie in the field to rot. I agree that the video showed horses in pretty good weight but I'm sure there are many unhealthy ones out there that don't run around like that. I know how hard it is to get animal control to cease animals so I'm sure there is more to the story than what is shown.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2012)

As others have said if you're on the West Coast this has been a nightmare for well over ten+ years, They've stayed just inside the law and everyone I've spoken to that bought a horse from them has had issues. I've flat refused to sell horses to them or anyone associated with them, and they use a few 'front' people to hide their name as most of us know their tactics.

Glad they're finally going to be stopped, for awhile at least.


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## Miniv (Sep 16, 2012)

Ditto to what Michelle, Wesco Farms posted.

People on the West Coast have been aware of this farm for many years. Complaints have been filed with authorities many times. This is the first time I've seen action ever being done. From what I've been told the owner has relatives in "high places" within the county and also tends to threaten with lawsuits.


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## Hosscrazy (Sep 16, 2012)

"They ought to be confilscating the animals that are obviously neglected; lack of vet care, lack of farrier care, emaciated, hoarding, etc."

I absolutely agree 100% but from what I understand (from talking to our County Animal Control), as long as there is food and water on the property, there's nothing they can do.

Liz N.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Sep 16, 2012)

SOOOOO glad they are taking care of them. They seem to know when they are going to be checked on. They throw stray out and put some water in buckets and they call it good. It has been YEARS of suffering. And yes some of the animals look ok, they are the ones she is trying to sell I am sure.

Everytime I saw her sales ads I cringed. As many complaints as there have been to police it has been a LONG time coming.


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## ohmt (Sep 16, 2012)

Ya, the few animals they picture look ok. What about the rest of the 100+ minis? What about the rest of the other animals?

These animals have already been confiscated and I am not going to judge why/if based on a minute of video. I will, however, do all I can to help them care for these animals until they can get into good homes.


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## susanne (Sep 16, 2012)

I can understand not wanting to judge by the short video, but everyone needs to consider who has posted here about these folks -- all active registry members who are extremely involved in the miniature horse world and CMHR -- all breeders of great integrity.

This is not some innocent horse lover turned in by neighbors out to get her.


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## WashingtonCowgirl (Sep 17, 2012)

Who do we talk to about possible adoptions?


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## wingnut (Sep 17, 2012)

Based on everything that's been relayed here regarding the on-going nature of the problem with these folks, maybe there needs to be something done about the laws/regulations? If they had to SHOW PROOF of medical care/proper nutrition/farrier care in ADDITION to just having food and water "in sight", then the authorities might have a chance to shut them down for good. As long as the regulation remain so inadequate, the hands of the authorities are tied. I've run into this problem in other areas of my life (non-animal related). The people who would like to do something but because of the lack of rules/regulations or because the existing rules/regulations are ridiculous and have the opposite impact then what was intended, their options are limited.

I simply want to beat something to a pulp every time I see this kind of thing. :::: sigh ::::


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## HGFarm (Sep 17, 2012)

My understanding is that they are calling this a case of hoarding, not neglect? Is this right? If so, just because she has 100 horses doesnt mean she is a hoarder. She does actively run ads and has a website with horses for sale. If she is a hoarder due to the number of animals, I could think of many other farms that have this many, or more! Does this make them hoarders too?

I have purchased horses from other farms over the years, supposedly with good reputations, and have had horses show up with worms, thin, dental work NEVER being done, one that was grossly obese due to a thyroid imbalance, etc.... Does this also make them neglectful and should they be turned in for these things?

Just kind of playing devils advocate here as many things are running through my head- there are always many sides to a story. Except for being muddy and the place could use trash pickup, I certainly didnt see any animals in bad shape like you see at many of the confiscation films on the news. Someone mentioned she had had surgery- has she had health issues that she could not keep up with things?

Again, have never been there personally, so dont know, but just throwing some thoughts out there.


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## ohmt (Sep 17, 2012)

I posted this because there are 100 or so horses that have been confiscated and need to be fed. Considering how hard people have to work to get someone to take away neglected animals and prosecute, I'm going to hope that whoever made the decision to do so in this case had very good reason to. I'm giving the law the benefit of the doubt in this case, not a 1 min video.

I don't believe any are up for adoption right now, they just need help feeding and caring for these animals.


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## Marty (Sep 17, 2012)

There is a legal process to all of this that has to be followed. Wether they are guilty of abuse or not, there is still a burden of proof on the authorities that has to go through the courts. They cannot put any animal up for adoption that they have not gained legal custody of. There has to be an investigation and I hope anyone who has first hand information and proof of any abuse will step up.


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## Katiean (Sep 17, 2012)

IMO it would not be the condition of the "LIVING" animals. But rather the "NUMBER" of dead animals. If walking by the place just plain "STINKS OF DEATH", this would be a good reason to remove the other animals. Yes, on a working farm animals die. BUT, you do need to dispose of the bodies properly. You don't just leave them out in the field or in the pen to rot. This was one of the things I got from the video. The gentleman said that the teen boy was supposed to "take care" of the "dead animals" and "sometimes things just don't get done" placing the blame on this teen boy that didn't take care of business.

In the 1980's My family shared a barn property for commercial rabbits with a man who also raised rabbits. Some days you go to the barn and there are 2-3 dead rabbits. He would just take them out and toss them under his cages. His barn smelled sooooo bad. Not only did his barn smell bad but, he got a staff infection in the barn from the filth. The rabbits would get this big baseball sized abscess that you had to drain and then care for the wound. This infection spread from his barn to mine. When I moved my herd I quit getting the abscesses on my breeding rabbits. What I am saying is that the number of dead animals on the farm in question may have been to the point that it was a health issue that "could have made healthy animals sick" I do not see where providing "VET AND FARRIER" records would help in this case. I do not know that this is the case but I think it is the dead animals not being disposed of was the problem as I did not see malnourished animals in the video.


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## MindyLee (Sep 17, 2012)

All might say not to judge from a miniute video, BUT if all you show is healthy animals and not sick, how could ya not judge?

ALSO if shown to NON ANIMAL OR MINI/HORSE FOLKS all they see is clutter and healthy animals... they will judge also that there's not neglect or abuse but only clutter....

pictures/videos tell a thousand words!

If ya want folks to see how bad something is, show the bad or worse of something, not live healthy looking animals... JMO!

Im defently sure theres more then what the eye sees, and I agree something must be done but again, if ya dont know and ya see what we all saw...thats what we judge by.


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## Minxiesmom (Sep 17, 2012)

This situation is WORSE than any of you can imagine! It goes far beyond what any compasionate person can tolerate. DO NOT give this woman the benifit of the doubt. When more details come available to us, we will let the mini community know how they can help.


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## Minimor (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree that what we see on the video doesn't look so bad. But--since we all know that it is very difficult to get law enforcement to confiscate animals...remember the situation in Iowa a few years back?????...I have to think that the video isn't showing the worst of things. We have descriptions of multiple dead animals lying around the property.

Think of this. I bet you that if anyone on this thread were to go to a farm and see rotting carcasses lying around in plain sight--no matter how good some of the living horses look, each and every one of you would come back here ranting about what a terrible place this is, and you would want to know who to contact to have the farm investigated and shut down. I bet not a one of you would say yes there were dead animals but...and then offer a string of excuses.

Yes, it is true that a farm with lots of animals suffers losses--I don't have 100 animals but I do know thr as well as anyone. However, it is still rare to have horses and dogs dying in numbers--a horse here, a dog there...maybe 2 or 3 at a temifbyou have some old ones and have the vet out to euthanize them all at once...but you still don't just leave them lying around to rot. Some farmers will drag a dead cow or horse out into the bush and leave it for the coyotes, but that carcass is well out of sight and smell of the yard. If visitors, passers by or neighbors can see and/or smell rotting carcasses you know there are going to be complaints.

I don't think it is helpful to add a new law requiring vet and farrier records--for myself, for one example, I do my own farrier work and do much of my own vet work. I call a vet only when it's a situation I cannot deal with on my own or if I need medication I can get only from the vet clinic. That doesn't mean my horse's are any more neglected than hide of someone who has the vet out twice a week for every minor ailment.

Since every person posting on this thread and lives in the PNW region is confirming very poor conditions on this farm...well, I think they know more about it than the rest of us. They are not defending this farm, and that tells me more than any video that really shows us nothing at all.


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## Equuisize (Sep 17, 2012)

It is very safe to relate that the people on the West Coast that have dealt with / had personal experience with this breeder

are not exaggerating.

The horses, that the media chose to video tape, is not indicative of the situation.

The situation needs to be remedied for the long term not as a band aid solution.


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## Katiean (Sep 17, 2012)

That is the point I was trying to make. If you have dead animals lying around, you have disease. Where you have the disease from dead animals you do not have a good situation. The person we shared barn property with did get shut down. No matter how bad I hated to have to go out and do it, I always burried what died. heck we even had a 400 pound ostrich die and we still had to burry it. I have no doubt that with the filth of dead animals, this in it's self would be enough to remove the animals that were living.


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## Snapple (Sep 17, 2012)

MindyLee said:


> All might say not to judge from a miniute video, BUT if all you show is healthy animals and not sick, how could ya not judge?
> 
> ALSO if shown to NON ANIMAL OR MINI/HORSE FOLKS all they see is clutter and healthy animals... they will judge also that there's not neglect or abuse but only clutter....
> 
> ...


The video was made by a local news station. The purpose was to cover a story, not to convince an online forum of mini horse folks that there was indeed abuse. As I said in a previous post, it was not likely that an evening news story was going to show rotting carcasses. I'm sure that any video taken by the sheriff's office itself would look much different.


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## wcr (Sep 17, 2012)

I have to say that the video can leave you confused as to why the horses were confiscated. I have first hand and very familiar information and I can well believe the horrors they found out there. Animal control had very good reason to go out there or they wouldn't have gone. They have tried to get her for years and have put enought heat on her for her to move into the boonies. It was the same horror story of what she left on her old place;dead, dying and crippled horses and she told the realtor she could have them.

I am thrilled to death that they only confiscated 100 horses. Huge pastures had been rented with 100 horses easily and they were farmed out all over the county. Several stallions in each group and a major who's your daddy. Horses are sold on breeders certificates for $375 and good luck getting papers. This is the extreme of the mini mills that is frequently discussed on here.

I have said enough but the West Coast people, and if you notice they range from California to Washington, commenting on this are being polite.


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## frostedpineminis (Sep 17, 2012)

If you do a google search of that lady and the confiscation, they even say they found animals with broken legs and jaws that were starving to death and that she was actually convicted of Animal abuse in 2009, if the video doesnt do it for you then maybe read some of the articles. Hopefully she doesnt get them back.


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## SHANA (Sep 18, 2012)

I am shocked as my mini stallion came from this farm and they have been really helpful concerning him. Always e-mailed me back when I had questions and seemed like nice people.


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## HGFarm (Sep 18, 2012)

I will say that I purchased a horse from this farm too, many years ago. The papers were right, the horse not thin, feet were trimmed and the horse was the right size that the papers said. Horse was also pregnant and the sire and resulting foal, etc... all were correct. The mare was friendly and easy to work with.


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## wingnut (Sep 18, 2012)

I think my previous post wasn't articulate enough. I believe that there is more going on than what that video showed. In fact, I'm pretty sure there has to be much more because, as others have said, it takes an awful lot to be proven before authorities are given the right to go in and confiscate as it appears they have in this case. With regards to being able to produce health records, what I was trying to say was that if you have an issue going on in your farm, you should be able to prove you are at least TRYING to remedy the situation. If you do some of your own vetting, you at least have records of things like vaccinations you've purchased to administer yourself. Or am I wrong in that regard? Since I'm so far from ever being in that position, I simply may not understand it well enough to comment. "Proof" of farrier work would simply be hooves in good overall condition. Whether you have a someone come to do it for payment or you do yourself, it will be obvious if this is something you're doing in the the care of your animal.

When my own horse was at her worst, I *was* concerned someone would see her and not realize that I wasn't simply neglecting her. She was that malnourished and looked awful. I'm sure if an animal control officer was called or happened by, I would have been asked a LOT of questions. Thankfully, I have the evidence to prove that we were trying to do something, both in terms of invoices from our mill and the vet as well as the potential "testimony" of our vet (and eventually the vets at the New Bolton Center). It could be proven in the end that we were doing what we could to help her but on first observance, eyebrows would definitely have been raised in alarm and serious questions asked.

I do believe the word of those who are from the area and know the back story as a result. In the end, I hope justice is truly served.


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## lexischase (Oct 26, 2012)

Does anyone know what happened to any of these minis? I am prepared to take a couple if they are up for adoption or in need of foster care etc. Would love to help out, so if anyone knows anything please let me know!!


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## stormy (Oct 26, 2012)

I had read on a facebook page of someone who had her own horses there for breeding that all horses are to be sold at auction...not sure if this is true.


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## HGFarm (Oct 26, 2012)

How sad and those well bred horses will now end up as pets with no papers... sigh. It's a shame it all boiled down to that. I hope the horses find good homes where they will be cared for as they deserve.


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## ohmt (Oct 27, 2012)

The person posting on fb is also a part of the investigation (Kandi's friend) and is only speculating they will go to auction. Alot of Kandi's horses had no papers anyway as she was banned by the registries.

This was a horrible situation. One of the people involved in the confiscation said there were mares laying around dead with foals hanging out of them



Breaks my heart.


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## DJF Miniature Show Horses (Oct 27, 2012)

I live in Josephine county. Kandi Crow breeds minis like a puppy mill. On many occasion you will see dead minis with foals heads hanging out. The mares could not give birth, died and are left to rot in the pasture! She runs all the stallions , mares and foals together. Her minis are never groomed or wormed. They never get their feet trimmed. They always look awful. Yes the ones they shown on TV are very obese. These are the few lucky ones. The rest are emaciated and dying. Many are mangled dwarfs that can't walk or eat. These minis have the most awful dental issues. They are covered in lice. They are full of worms and have digestive damage issues from this. Many are being put down from their neglect. The media and Lisa have not pointed out the whole "truth!" This is one of the worst animal abuse cases in our countys history. Believe me we have many abuser's in our area! Kandi has been arrested 2 times before for animal abuse in our county. She was told to never own animals again. She got other people involved to register minis in their name but the horses stayed with her. She sell's the minis for huge amounts of money off the internet and "ships" them out so the buyer stays all warm and fuzzy with her website pictures of green pastures and chubby horses. Their are several disgruntled buyers that send DNA to AMHA and are told their is no match to be found. I have a friend who paid 5000.00 for a Pinto colt from her and DNA does not match. Kandi's response? "Oh well". How would you feel???

She also sell's minis as pets only and then wants big prices for their papers if you want them. First off that is illegal with AMHA! It clearly states that you cannot sell the mini without his papers if he has them.

Kandi was also arrested in Washington state for animal neglect several times and then she moved here. When she leaves Josephine County buh bye but! She will continue her sick animal abuse elsewhere unless they put her away this time!

That Pomeranian is a long haired Chihuahua by the way. She was covered with fleas and lice, wormy, matted with fece's on her hind end. YOU people responding have no idea how horrible this case is!!

KANDI CROW and her son are Monster's!!!!!

I have resued 2 minis in the past taken from her. They were in terrible neglected condition. One of them always had digestion issues. I have also been one of the rescue groomers for the dogs and cats. The matted fece's is disgusting enough but imagine maggot's there too! Fleas jumping on you everywhere!!!

Hope they lock her up and starve her to death like she has done her minis and cats and Llamas and dogs!

So now you all know the TRUTH!!!


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

> have purchased horses from other farms over the years, supposedly with good reputations, and have had horses show up with worms, thin, dental work NEVER being done, one that was grossly obese due to a thyroid imbalance, etc.... Does this also make them neglectful and should they be turned in for these things?


I bought a horse from a lady that published a book on equine nutrition one time, and the horse was so thin the hauler took it to a lay over station and the barn manager had to give it supplements and food for 2 weeks before they felt safe to haul it to NC. When it got here i was shocked and when we wormed it i was _*even more*_ shocked at what come out!!! Had its teeth checked and it was not a tooth issue 8 weeks later she looks like a different horse and i still have her, she is not a hard keeper.



> I don't think it is helpful to add a new law requiring vet and farrier records--for myself, for one example, I do my own farrier work and do much of my own vet work. I call a vet only when it's a situation I cannot deal with on my own or if I need medication I can get only from the vet clinic. That doesn't mean my horse's are any more neglected than hide of someone who has the vet out twice a week for every minor ailment.


I agree, i do much of my own as well, and think mine are pretty darn well cared for.

However!!!!! i had the "law called on me for my horses having cuckleburs in their hair!!! i had started pulling them off the pasture because my vet complained that they were too fat, and needed to not be out 24/7, so...they were close to the road and people saw cuckleburs in their hair, and reported me. I called my equine Vet, and told him and he could not stop laughing saying I bet they did not complain about the "REAL" problem which was that the horses were way too fat !!!! Obesity causes a huge range of problems!!!!!! anyway i was left alone after that, and the cuckle burs fell out after a few weeks!!! And the horses lost weight after some time.

_*People mean well *_

As far as the video, nothing i saw was shocking. There had to have been more to that story,,,,at least i hope there was.

There was an episode on Huston SPCA where 14 cows were rescued from a farm in Texas, and i remembered thinking those were the fattest nice looking cows i had seen in a long time. They also rescued 6 or 7 barn cats, and 2 dogs that were chained up, but looked good to me???? made me wonder whose freezer those cows ended up in.

As far as the registries go, not sure that should be an issue as to confiscate animals or not, how someone does paper work does not affect the horse care.


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## Hosscrazy (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm glad these poor animals were finally able to receive the help and attention they needed. Wish we could do the same for so many other places that are running animal mills.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

> he also sell's minis as pets only and then wants big prices for their papers if you want them. First off that is illegal with AMHA! It clearly states that you cannot sell the mini without his papers if he has them.


I did not know about this law, hmmm....i will check it out.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

I have been trying to find the links with the videos, but can only find the articles that was about what she was charged with, the photos were of a couple of minis, and they looked pretty good to me?


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## ohmt (Nov 11, 2012)

Link to auction with pictures of the confiscated horses for those who are planning on going:

http://www.liska-auctioneers.com/2012/other-auctions/dec-8/

All stallions and colts are being kept in tact, unfortunately. It looks like there are a lot of horses that need quite a bit of TLC.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

some looked pretty bad, but thankfully most looked in pretty good shape, phot number 16 is of Winding Creek Colt Endeavor, he is a homozygous AMHA stallion


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

Well other than a few old eye injury's( which any farm with that many horses will have) there were only about 3 horses that were thin, which leads me to believe that those horses may have either been old, or needed to have their teeth worked on. Surely there was more evidence than that, those horses were in pretty good shape, and some were a little on the obese side , and none other than the 3 thin ones looked wormy to me. What does everyone else think?


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## Horse Love (Nov 11, 2012)

Just because they aren't starved doesn't mean they were being properly taken care of. With that many, I doubt they were getting any vet care, shots/deworming, etc. Glad they are getting new homes.


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## Jade10 (Nov 11, 2012)

DJF Miniature Show Horses said:


> I live in Josephine county. Kandi Crow breeds minis like a puppy mill. On many occasion you will see dead minis with foals heads hanging out. The mares could not give birth, died and are left to rot in the pasture! She runs all the stallions , mares and foals together. Her minis are never groomed or wormed. They never get their feet trimmed. They always look awful. Yes the ones they shown on TV are very obese. These are the few lucky ones. The rest are emaciated and dying. Many are mangled dwarfs that can't walk or eat. These minis have the most awful dental issues. They are covered in lice. They are full of worms and have digestive damage issues from this. Many are being put down from their neglect. The media and Lisa have not pointed out the whole "truth!" This is one of the worst animal abuse cases in our countys history.
> 
> I have resued 2 minis in the past taken from her. They were in terrible neglected condition. One of them always had digestion issues. I have also been one of the rescue groomers for the dogs and cats. The matted fece's is disgusting enough but imagine maggot's there too! Fleas jumping on you everywhere!!!
> 
> So now you all know the TRUTH!!!


Lil Hoofbeats if you read this section of DJ Miniature Show Horses Post it clearly states how bad the case is.


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## ohmt (Nov 11, 2012)

The fact that when the horses were being confiscated there were mares laying dead with foals half out of them and other carcasses laying around says it all right there. There were more than 3 pictured that were thin as well and I believe I read that a couple were lost due to malnourishment after confiscation. Multiple stallions running with mares-Kandi put them all out to pasture (and not in ideal conditions-I put mine out to pasture as well, but in clean/healthy areas and they are still cared for) and left them. That is why some are obese and some are extremely malnourished. They had to fend for themselves. She was charged with many many counts of neglect and malnourishment of her animals, as she should have been.

I only wish the confiscation of these animals was handled better. The stallions/colts should all be gelded and I dislike that they are just being auctioned off like this. I know CMHR and many other rescues are trying to help so I hope all of the horses get the good homes that many have probably never had.


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## ohmt (Nov 11, 2012)

Want to add that these pictures are taken recently for the auction and as you can see from when I originally posted this, the confiscation happened back in the beginning of September. I should HOPE that the horses are no longer wormy and just imagine what some of those extremely thin horses looked like back then. It looks like their hooves have been taken care of as well, which is great. Wish someone would take a brush to their manes and tails though.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

Hi Jade, i viewed all 177 of them on the link OHMT sent and there were only 3 emaciated ones that i saw, about 4 _*old*_ eye injurys(that would be expected with that number of horses) and all looked in good shape other than being a little too fat, but none looked wormy to me.

I am only going on what is shown to me. I do not listen to hearsay. _*174 out of 177 horses looked in good shape *_

I have seen far worse at the stock yards lately, and animal control did not confiscate them.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

Well number 16 was Winding Creek Colt Endeavor he is AMHA and a black and white homozygous stallion, for anyone who gets him, his breeding is Top Notch He is a grandson of Brewers Dynamo Executive a National Top Ten son of Bond DYnamo


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

The frame horse that was in the picture was the only horrible looking horse that i saw, and if it still looked that way after 8 weeks, it was a absorption problem or tooth problem that they have not fixed, because it looked bad, the other 2 looked only a little thin.

I have a neighbor that has a 34 year old QH gelding, had him since he was a yearling, he has free choice hay and 5 gallons of senior feed a day, and still looks like a walking trotting skeleton , he feels good as he still sticks his tail up in the air and runs and bucks, but looks like death warmed over. I told him to shoot him before someone reports him, but.... Calvin wants him to live as long as he can and feels good. Costs him a fortune to feed that horse.


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## Jade10 (Nov 11, 2012)

lil hoofbeats said:


> Hi Jade, i viewed all 177 of them on the link OHMT sent and there were only 3 emaciated ones that i saw, about 4 _*old*_ eye injurys(that would be expected with that number of horses) and all looked in good shape other than being a little too fat, but none looked wormy to me.
> 
> I am only going on what is shown to me. I do not listen to hearsay. _*174 out of 177 horses looked in good shape *_
> 
> I have seen far worse at the stock yards lately, and animal control did not confiscate them.


Im not sure if what i said came across nasty but it wasnt meant to, you asked what everyone else thought and so i just re-posted what someone said who has seen the case first hand.

Even though most dont look horrible, if you read the latest posts by OHMT you can see that quite a lot of work has gone into them over the past month and a bit, hence why the horses look alright.

(I find it really hard to convey tone when writing a message, so im sorry if i come across as being angry, etc because im not)


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## ohmt (Nov 11, 2012)

Don't know what to tell you, Julie. I understand you wanting to look at all angles, but I'm leaving this one up to the authorities involved with the case. She was reported over 20 times and is being charged for more things that I can remember. The people involved in the confiscation were the ones that told the press about the many dead animals laying around the farm and the mares dead with foals half out of them. If she is guilty, I hope she pays for her crimes-authorities thought it was necessary for these animals to be taken out of her care and she has spent time in jail for animal neglect in the past so I hope she never has the chance to repeat this scenario.

Back to the animals that need our help though-Marty posted a link to the CMHR website to apply to foster. They are trying to help this case, but they need foster homes badly. If anyone is willing and able to do so, please apply, thank you!


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

No Jade you were not nasty at all!!! and i certainly hope i was not, as that was not my intention, and you are right it is really hard to convey tone when writing a message. And i am not meaning anything nasty or negative when i write the following, only wanting people to think about this. 

 I have bought many horses over the years because that is what i do, i buy horses and re sell them. I have heard so many "sob" stories about how people _*LOVE*_ their horses and hate to part with them and how they cried when they loaded them on the trailer, and so on and so forth, only to have them arrive here is crappy shape. 

So when i _*hear*_ something, i dont put much faith in it. When i see this, i do not see a whole lot of bad looking animals. If they were in such poor shape a month ago, then they would not look as good as they do(i know how long it takes to get horses back in shape enough to sell them) so that being said, these horses are pretty slick coated and fat and that takes longer than a month or 6 weeks, and the three thin ones i saw should be put down if they are not responding to treatment, which the authorities have not done. 

If she has been charged in the past, i understand the concern, but what i am seeing right here right now, really is not a crime and unless the authorities are hiding something, then the charges should be dropped, You can make anything "_*look*_" bad if you want to, but i did not see dead mares with foals hanging out of them, as has been suggested. Not putting correct papers on a horse is not a criminal offense, not giving papers is not a criminal offense. Horses not parent qualifying is NOT a criminal offense.

I am all for animal abusers to be held accountable, but the abuse must be proven, and what i have seen so far does not support that. I am sure many of the really nice smaller loud colored appy or overo mares, should be very easy to "_*foster*_." Not hate'in, just say'in.


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## ohmt (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm not sure how trials work, but maybe everything is not put out for public viewing because of the impending trial. And it has been over 2 months since the confiscation so quite a bit of time and money has been put into rehabilitation.

Again, authorities felt it necessary these animals be put in new homes due to neglect. I don't know the whole story, but considering how horrible conditions must be for any confiscation to happen, I'm not going to second guess this one.

I doubt there will be much "fostering" with the way Kandi kept her papers and considering most of the animals appear to be pet quality, but i'm guessing most will be needing real fostering-without the quotations.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 11, 2012)

My Vet was ask one time by an animal control officer if it was cruel to not have a barn for horses to go into, he said he thought for a minute and replied, well, if it is cruel then God mus be the cruelest horse owner of all, as he made millions of horses and never built one barn for them. And until the last couple of centuries when they become domesticated they did not have a barn.

My point is, its all about how you look at things



> If she is guilty, I hope she pays for her crimes-


Me too! _*If*_ she is guilty!

But i have seen some animals taken and wondered why, and others left in their environment and really wondered why. What was shown to me( i have looked at every article that i could find) has not been a crime. But maybe evidence is being hidden for some reason.


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## ohmt (Nov 12, 2012)

I think you've made your point






Back to the horses who are in need of homes!


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 12, 2012)

If she is _*not *_convicted, i feel those horses should be given back to her, and who is going to pay for the transportation back to her?


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## ohmt (Nov 12, 2012)

The auction is set for after her hearing.


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## Minimor (Nov 12, 2012)

For those saying that they don't like it that the horses are being auctioned off--unfortunately that is the way it generally works when animals are confiscated. They are auctioned.

Sometimes the owner turns them over to authorities who then can give them to a rescue to rehome. Confiscated means auction.. And once they are auctioned they would not be returned to the former owner.

Look at the group of confiscated AQHA horses in Illinois--the have been auctioned off. If their owner is found not guilty she will get the money--the horses are gone. If guilty , the money goes to pay partial restitution of what was stolen.


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## HGFarm (Nov 12, 2012)

Ok so I must tell you of a recent event here- that happened about the same time as this confiscation. A person who lives fairly close to me was turned in- again - for neglect of her horses. About 12 of the approximately 40 there were hidden in a barn- shoved in a pen with a full sized horse so no one could see them. None of this herd gets farrier work, worming, dental work, etc.... When the authorities arrived, a rescue was apparently 'monitoring' her for the last three years and talked her into getting rid of the 11 or 12 worst horses. No charges were filed and she is allowed to keep the rest!!! If the rescue was 'monitoring' her, HOW did those horses end up in the shape they were in?!! One of them was sent to another nearby rescue where despite their round the clock care- it DIED.

The owner doesnt have to deal with any of it. The worst ones are gone and out of her hair. She gets off scot free and with the approximately 30 remaining horses, the same thing will happen over and over as in the photo I saw, some of them look pregnant to me. She has about 8 or 9 stallions- all running together and has NO idea who is bred to who. A neighbor bought a filly from there as a pet, and still cant get the papers. After DNA'ing 5 of the stallions, still cant find the 'baby daddy'.

Also, if it's illegal to sell a horse without AMHA papers if the horse has them, will someone please point this out in the rule book? I cant seem to find anything of that nature there at all. I have been involved in Minis since 1995 and have never heard of this. Nor have I ever heard of it with any other registry I was involved in before.


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## Charlotte (Nov 12, 2012)

Selling an AMHA registered horse without it's papers:

Page 53 of the 2012 Rule book:

186B Sale Without Certificate Of Registration

If a registered horse is sold without the certificate of registration, the certificate must be surrendered by the recorded owner to the Association for cancellation.

So it's not 'illegal' in the Association to sell without the registration certificate, but it is 'illegal' to keep the registration certificate if the horse is sold without.


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## Minimor (Nov 12, 2012)

I'm guessing, though, that nothing much happens to anyone that does sell a horse without its papers without turning the certificate in for cancellation. Is there not also a rule that says any horse that dies must have its papers sent in for notation? Maybe AMHA doesn't have that rule, but many registries do--and I suspect that a majority of people do not bother to send in the papers. Does AMHA specify any penalty for anyone that is caught selling a horse without papers and not sending those papers in to AMHA?

If someone sells XYC Champion Pete without papers to someone in the next county--"Pete" is just a grade horse, not likely to be matched up to his papers anytime in the future. It's pretty hard for a registry to prove that a horse was sold without papers--it could be he was sold with papers and the buyer never transferred them...if the seller throws away the papers, that's the end of that.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 12, 2012)

> I'm guessing, though, that nothing much happens to anyone that does sell a horse without its papers without turning the certificate in for cancellation. Is there not also a rule that says any horse that dies must have its papers sent in for notation? Maybe AMHA doesn't have that rule, but many registries do--and I suspect that a majority of people do not bother to send in the papers. Does AMHA specify any penalty for anyone that is caught selling a horse without papers and not sending those papers in to AMHA?


I think that would be a tough one to prove unless the person at fault admitted to it!

I think i have some laying around that i need to turn in.

Anyway The horses barring three of them looked really good! and in wonderful shape so i am sure they will bring fair market price .

If the lady in question is guilty, then she should pay, otherwise i hope she gets her horses back.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 12, 2012)

I am not sure which pictures you were looking at. Far more than three (which you keep repeating. btw, repeating things does not make them correct...) looked pretty ropey to me- a few looked pregnant, a lot looked wormy- maybe you are mistaking a fat belly for being in good condition.

I am not.....

How would you tell whether an eye injury is old or new??

Surely and old injury would be a lot worse, anyway?

There seems to be a LOT of evidence against this woman and I have NO idea why you seem intent on defending her. She appears to settle in one state, get banned from ownership or hassled by the local humane society, and then move to another state and start again- there is a pretty long paper trail, too,

A simple Google tells a lot.....


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## disneyhorse (Nov 12, 2012)

I would argue against their condition... Stand my horse next to any one of those and tell me they're healthier.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 12, 2012)

They looked pretty good to me except for the three i stated, I have had eye injuries at my farm, and i have seen plenty as i have worked with a Vet before, and these eye injuries looked to be the end result.

I am not the only person who thought these horses looked pretty good.

And last time i checked people were innocent until they were proven in a court of law that they were guilty What has been shown to me does not look criminal, so as i stated there has to be more than what is being shown.


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## jandjmc (Nov 12, 2012)

This woman's history speaks for itself, period. The pictures don't show health horses but poor hair coats, wormy bellies, wounds, poor hoof quality and babies who look like they are deficent in protein.

Thank you ohmt for the information about who to contact.

Equamore Sanctuary is coordinating a rescue effort. They have set up an account for the rescue and are in need of supplies. I am sending my extra halters, blankets and hopefully some wormer. If you are interested in helping these horses, please contact them.


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## lil hoofbeats (Nov 12, 2012)

> I would argue against their condition... Stand my horse next to any one of those and tell me they're healthier.


First let me say you have some awesome Shetlands,, but the pics i saw of them they are all in show shape.* A horse does not have to look like that to be healthy,* in fact i always give mine free choice hay, so they usually appear a bit "pot bellied". I can reduce that by pulling them off hay, however that may cause some problems so i dont.


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## disneyhorse (Nov 12, 2012)

My definition of a well cared for horse:

Adequate and balanced nutrition such that they stay between a 4-6 on the weight scale,

Dental by vet or dentist at least every other year (if not just for a check),

Hoof care every 10 weeks or more frequently

Daily hands-on inspection of each horse

Fecal exams twice yearly or deworming on a regular cycle

Someone with poor health and no staff cannot monetarily and physically maintain that number of horses to the above standards.


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## stormy (Nov 13, 2012)

http://community.statesmanjournal.com/blogs/petadvice/2012/11/03/southern-oregon-county-hopes-to-recoup-cost-of-caring-for-animals-from-hoarding-case-293000

A little more info


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## Mona (Nov 13, 2012)

Thank you for this latest update.


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## Riverrose28 (Nov 13, 2012)

This is just my opinion and you can take it or leave it, but, I think that the horses going to auction is in the best interest of the horses. Period! The county needs to recoup money spent, the horses need good loving homes and seems this is the best solution to solve both problems. I should probably stop here, but I must say, that no reputable breeder or show person is going to take these poor animals, so hopfully pet people will purchas them at auction and give them the homes that they deserve to be in with love and care and proper vetting.


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## Cupcake (Nov 21, 2012)

Just found this threat and will delete the one I posted about it. Here's a Facebook group regarding the auction on December 8 in case someone is interested in helping out https://www.facebook.com/groups/139246802889958/

My mini was sold as a foal and not properly taken care of bythe new owner for the following 5 months. As a result I spent way more money than I should have (or than anyone else would have) to purchase a non registered underweight potbelly 10 months old. But I don't regret it seeing how spunky and happy she is now. I hope all of these minis will have the same success story.


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## jandjmc (Nov 21, 2012)

To all who are going to the auction or might be taking a mini home: Check for lice and quarantine horses coming in for at least 14 days. This will save you a lot of headaches.


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## shelia (Nov 22, 2012)

I have been watching this unfold, but have not posted before now. I do agree that a lot of the minis look pretty good fom their pictures, however I think some of the other animals there were what got her caught. They are showing pictures of the minis because there are so many of them and they need homes. They are adoptable. They may have been the healthiest group of animals she had. They may not be publicising the worst abuse. They can't just take part of her animals and leave her with the healthy ones. She has a problem and needs to be stopped.

I am sure the minis have not had the best of care and may suffer long term problems from worm infestations. Although some may not.

I suspect it may have been the dogs or cats that got the authorities to really take notice.

The stories I have read here do tell me that the minis were very neglegted. They are not releasing pictures of dead animals laying around. i think right now they just want to get these minis in good homes and don't want to scare anyone off with the ugly truth of where they came from.


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## ohmt (Nov 22, 2012)

The 8 worst minis are not in the auction and have not been pictured. The vet is still not sure of they will survive and said if lot #7 was in a herd with them he would look like a glutton. So, they are NOT showing the bad cases here.

Also, the other thread I had going has a lot more information on it. Should be on page 2 of the forum now.

Sheila-it was the many dead animals that were laying around the farm, (mostly horses) that got their attention.


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## susanne (Nov 22, 2012)

I would imagine it was the dead horses, some with foals halfway out, that attracted the authorities this time (she has been arrested twice and reported countless times).

I'm glad people are loathe to jump to conclusions, and certainly no one wants to think they have sold to or bought from such a farm, but NW miniature horse people have known about her for ages and the stories will curl your hair. I would highly suggest talking to one of the many responsible farms if you have any doubts.


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## DJF Miniature Show Horses (Nov 22, 2012)

Update:

She has been charged with 22 counts of second degree animal neglect, 17 counts of second degree animal abuse, and five counts of prohibited possession of a domestic animal.

Numerous carcasses were found. 257 animals were seized. Most were miniature horses.

She was convicted in 2009 for first degree animal abuse and sentenced to 10 days in jail.

Her hearing is set for January 2013.

Many mini rescue groups are coming from 3 states so these poor babies will get the proper rehab and be rehomed to responsible owners. God bless these wonderful people....


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## DJF Miniature Show Horses (Nov 22, 2012)

Forgot to add:

She goes by 3 farm names.

Crows Nest miniature horses (changed after the 2009 conviction) to.....

Lil Bit of Heaven

Magical Miniature Horses


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## shelia (Nov 23, 2012)

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/10/animal_neglect_charges_for_sou.html At the bottom of this story is a comment from a person who claims to have called this in to police. It is nice to know how she was finally stopped.

Thanks for the info on the farm names. The only website i have seen is Lil Bit of Heaven and does not give her name, but does have the same pictures.


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## Debby - LB (Nov 30, 2012)

*Please view auction details and updates here: *http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=131486


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