# Let's say I break into your house



## Shari (Nov 9, 2007)

Let's say I break into your house

A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials

in ages!!! It explains things better than all

the baloney you hear on TV.

*Her point:*

Recently large demonstrations have taken place

across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.





Certain people are angry that

the US might protect its own

borders, might make it harder

to sneak into this country and,

once here, to stay indefinitely.




Let me see if I correctly understand

the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house.

Let's say that when you discover

me in your house, you insist that I leave.








But I say, 'I've made all

the beds and washed the

dishes and did the laundry

and swept the floors. I've

done all the things you don't

like to do. I'm hard-working

and honest (except for when I broke into your house) .

According to the protesters :





You ar e Required to let me stay in your house

You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan

You are Required to Educate my kids

You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family

(my husband will do all of your yard work because

he is also hard-working and honest, except for that

breaking in part).




If you try to call the police or force me out,

I will call my friends who will picket your

house carrying signs that proclaim my

*RIGHT* to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have

a nicer house than I do, and I'm just

trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working

and honest, person, except for well,

you know, I did break into your house.

And oh yeah, I get a free education, where you

!

have to pay your own way through college.(TEEHEE)

And what a deal it is for me!!!




I live in your house, contributing only a

fraction of the cost of my keep, and

there is nothing you can do about it





without being accused of cold,

uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and

bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I *DEMAND* that you learn

*MY LANGUAGE!!! * so you can communicate with me.And don't forget to

make sure your forms are in *MY* language - I need to understand them...




Why can't people see how ridiculous

this is?! Only in America

if you agree, pass it on ( i n English ).

Share it if you see the value of it.

If not blow it off.........

along with your future Social Security

funds, and a lot of other things.


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## heart k ranch (Nov 9, 2007)

That was so freaking true!!!


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## TangoMango (Nov 9, 2007)




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## angel_cowgirl (Nov 9, 2007)

Simple as that!


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## Reble (Nov 9, 2007)

Thanks for sharing


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## Janis (Nov 9, 2007)

I AGREE 100%


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## PaintedPromiseRanch (Nov 9, 2007)

i got that e-mail a while back... i've ALWAYS felt that way, it really irks me that my mom immigrated from Germany at 17, had to go through Ellis Island, to be a citizen had to take classes, and SHE never expected everyone in this country to learn HER language, she learned ENGLISH... and immigrants these days expect everything for nothing. but this really puts it well, in a perspective that a lot of people can understand.


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## Shari (Nov 9, 2007)

My sister sent it to me....and it was just too.... uhm... dead on... not to share. I also found it simple and to the point.


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## minimule (Nov 9, 2007)

Growing up close to the border it's even closer to home!


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2007)

In Canada, when our doorbell is rung by immigrants, we open it and welcome them in with open arms.

That way, they don't have to break in.

We have programs to help them adjust to their new home, and health care is free for everyone. Education is free until post-secondary. We'll be glad to help you find employment.

We have two official languages already and we welcome those who speak languages other than English and French.

We celebrate our differences and learn about each other's cultures in our schools and through wonderful, colourful ethnic celebrations.

Is it any wonder the U.S. is currently neck-deep in a recession while Canada becomes stronger and stronger? Not really.


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## CyndiM (Nov 9, 2007)

100% True, and a very SAD state for our country. I have *NO* beef with _*ANYONE* _ coming here the legal way.


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## Bluerocket (Nov 9, 2007)

:arg!























I strongly disagree with the original post.

JJay


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## LowriseMinis (Nov 9, 2007)

Well, it was definitely not PC...

Hey, is Canada generally welcoming of Americans?


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## heart k ranch (Nov 9, 2007)

Bluerocket said:


> :arg!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not to be rude, because I love reading what you have to say but what are your views on this issue.....

Not to be rude AT ALL but I just want to know why?.....


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## Shari (Nov 9, 2007)

I also have no problems with folks coming in the legal way. My husband's mother was born in the UK...and went through all the proper channels. Have friends from China, France, germany, even Canada that came in legally....and not expecting a free ride.

Problem I have with the illegals...is the system in the states most close to all this are getting over loaded in the schools, medical, jails and so on.

My Mom was having a stroke a couple of years ago,,,and yes it was bad. But the most close ER was so full up with illegals that they had to get a life light helicopter to get a hospital that wasn't over loaded. As it was...she was very lucky,,,however because of the wait, she suffered more damaged because of the illegals.

Sorry but that is major wrong.

Other problem.... when we first moved to Oregon...went to the DMV. They were rude and snotty to my husband and I....saying we had to have legal proof to get a licence and our plates....all the while the mexican translator..was talking with illegals..no green card or anything....and giving them drivers licences with no proof of being born in the US or proof you really live in OR. Hubby and I had to go home to get our mortgage papers. Sorry...but I have a problem with that.

Talk about double standards.

If Canada got the flood the US is getting... taxing your system to the point of failure....you not being able to get medical or so on...and your taxes being upped to pay for the free loaders... I do not think you would be so happy about having a million plus Illegals dumped on your door step or house all wanting a free hand out.

Am not talking about the ones that come in the legal way...like all the other countries in the World have too.


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## coopermini (Nov 9, 2007)

Thanks for posting











I have no problem with the legals coming and they usually are no problem, they get jobs they work and do the best they can.


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## StellaLenoir (Nov 9, 2007)

I can see both sides. Never having been face with the hardships some face in Mexico, I can only imagin the fear and desperation that drives a person to sneak into a country. Taking the risks that they do with rapist smugglers and dying in the desert or crammed into a truck. To those that do come here to work to give there familys a better life, I want to accept them. I can not say I would rather their children die, or they be stuck living in poverty.

But on the other hand, I do not agree with how they are handled when they are here. It should not be a free ride. They should not get services that American children are denied. They should not get free health care when a hard working legal citizen makes too much but still not enough to afford health care.

Here in Fl, without documentation, at any age they are allowed into the highschool! With our children! That is not right.

We have rental homes with 20-30 men living in them, and they have no documentaion. They could be sex offenders, murderers or anything. These men are driving brand new trucks paid in cash, why, because they dont report their earnings! They are paid under the table by building contractors that truck them in by the 100s. This is wrong!

Just recently an illegal drove drunk home from work and killed a person. No licence, no ssc, nothing. He was here illegaly. Now our tax $ will pay his way for the next 30 years I think the sentence was.

For medicaid, in Fl, it says on the form, if you are here illegaly, you do not have to fill out these forms, you AUTOMATICLY are accepted. What the F#ck!!! they get special treatment in school, and now in NY drivers licences!

Bank of America will give them a credit card!

it drives me nuts!

Edited to add.....

I think that we need to band together and as a mass of legal citizens, we need to go into places offering free government services for illegals and demand the same services. If they dont have to provide documents saying they are l*egal*, why should we show documents saying we are *illegal*!?

I mean 100 people going into these dmv places and demanding in we want licences , my name is Smokey the Bear and I want a licence, what I need documents, no I am from mars, just give me a licence. Maybe if the demonstration was large enough, it would show just how stupid and unfair it is to give these services to illegals.


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## TangoMango (Nov 9, 2007)

OH!

Problem solved, lets ship them all to Canada...Oh wait, they dont WANT to go to the "Stronger"



Canada. Now why is that?

Im not sure what recession



you are talking about, but we are fine and dandy in my part of the country.



Jenn said:


> In Canada, when our doorbell is rung by immigrants, we open it and welcome them in with open arms.
> 
> That way, they don't have to break in.
> 
> ...


OH!


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## TriggynBluenDaisy Too (Nov 10, 2007)

You'll have to excuse Jenn. She lives in BF Alberta and only got to the big city in her college days.



She's totally bought into the propaganda that most Canadian youth are fed and I'm sure no one will change her mind. If she ever has to become a part of the real world though it will certainly be an eye opener.

Heck if Hillary Care becomes a reality, where will all those poor Canadians go when they need serious health care.





Good thread Shari, it certainly makes one think. I have no problem with those willing to share the load and assimalate, but the rest are surely welcome to populate Canada. Too bad they won't, the living and perks are too good here.


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## Jenn (Nov 10, 2007)

TriggynBluenDaisy Too said:


> You'll have to excuse Jenn. She lives in BF Alberta and only got to the big city in her college days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW are you wrong about me ... and Canada.

But I give up, you can't educate the ignorant.

Y'all have fun with your recession while I roll around in my oil revenues.


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## TriggynBluenDaisy Too (Nov 10, 2007)

Jenn said:


> ...
> 
> WOW are you wrong about me ... and Canada.
> 
> ...


You're absolutley right Jenn and your comments make for an outstanding example.


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## rabbitsfizz (Nov 10, 2007)

Not "only in America"

(Unless Blair signed something we do not know about before he left and England is now a state???)

We have as much if not more problem with illegal immigrants and we have almost NO restrictions on legal immigrants- it is not as if it is hard to get into England or to stay here- unless you really ARE a refugee form violence, then we send you back out of principle, it would seem.

If you are e terrorist (no, sorry, if you are a _Muslim_ terrorist ) we take months and months, even years to get up the courage to ask you politely to leave.

In the case of the suicide bombers of London I would have sent them away, and all their immediate family, and allowed the family back in when they had PROVED they know nothing of their children's activities.

I do not want to see women with only their eyes showing in shopping queues speaking in my country in a foreign language, knowing they are sending their children to my schools and spreading their rubbish attitudes.

I do not want to be elbowed out of the way by people yabbering in Polish.

I just wish people would wake up to the damage being done.

But they will not, the vocal minority will rule as usual.


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## stormy (Nov 10, 2007)

If anyone has any reasonable answer to the problem of illegal immigration please present it. There would not be such a large share of illegals in this country if they were not being offered jobs, in fact if all the illegal immigrants left today our food supply would be in serious danger, they are the main work force for farms, slaughter plants and fruit and vegetable producers nation wide and to our own shame the reason these jobs are so readily available is because so many of the unemployed and welfare supported individuals here don't feel they should have to do such hard and dirty work. I sure don't know what the answer is but I don't think a many miles long fence is it.....reforming the system for recieving work visas would be a big step in the right direction.

And I will also say I have seen the terrible, hopeless poverty many of these people live in and if I lived in it had a famiy and children to support and saw a chance to put my hands to work to give them an opportunity at life I sure as heck would climb even the tallest fence to do it!


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## Minimor (Nov 10, 2007)

Gee, I guess I am not in the loop....I didn't know Canada was allowing illegal immigrants into the country and giving them free health care and free schooling. I believe that illegal immigrants are a problem more on the west coast (for one place) and I know that if a couple comes here & has a baby while in this country that baby is then entitled to all the rights of any Canadian citizen/permanent resident, but I didn't realize that we were giving free health care to any and all that might decide to sneak into the country and stay here



Anyone wanting to immigrate to canada legally has to jump through hoops & pay the right amount of money to get into the country...and there have been a number of deserving (IMO--not that I know them personally, but I know their stories) individuals that have been deported in the recent past--so no, Canada doesn't take anyone & everyone.

A local processing plant is bringing in workers from several other countries--I'm not sure if they are bring them in on work visas or if the people are actually getting landed immigrant status, but they are coming in legally. That's totally different from the topic here--illegal immigrants. In this area these workers are readily accepted--why wouldn't they be? They're legal. They're filling jobs that no one else wants, they're meeting the criteria for "free" health care, "free schooling" for their children...I can assure you they would not be readily accepted in the community if they were sneaking into the country illegally and not contributing to all the "free" benefits that Canadian residents enjoy.

At one point there was someone living in this area that did not have the proper paperwork to be working in Canada. He was working--putting on clinics and collecting his fees in cash (US currency only...sadly for him he actually was handing out printed advertising all over town!)--and as he was living with his girlfriend, a Canadian citizen, while he was here he had somehow provided information that allowed him free health care...and he bragged about it. When someone reported him to Canadian immigration authorities he was booted out of the country very quickly.

So no, Canada doesn't welcome everyone!


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Nov 11, 2007)

stormy said:


> If anyone has any reasonable answer to the problem of illegal immigration please present it. There would not be such a large share of illegals in this country if they were not being offered jobs, in fact if all the illegal immigrants left today our food supply would be in serious danger, they are the main work force for farms, slaughter plants and fruit and vegetable producers nation wide and to our own shame the reason these jobs are so readily available is because so many of the unemployed and welfare supported individuals here don't feel they should have to do such hard and dirty work. I sure don't know what the answer is but I don't think a many miles long fence is it.....reforming the system for recieving work visas would be a big step in the right direction.
> 
> And I will also say I have seen the terrible, hopeless poverty many of these people live in and if I lived in it had a famiy and children to support and saw a chance to put my hands to work to give them an opportunity at life I sure as heck would climb even the tallest fence to do it!


I totally agree and OMG what would we do if we didnt have them here in our country we might have to actually blame our problems on *gasp* OURSELVES- sorry illegal or not I have yet to see a group of Americans standing on the corner all day in the hope of doing someones grunt work for very little pay and of course then grateful that they got to work ALL DAY LONG doing stuff the "americans" didnt want to do and being happy with a measly 25 bucks for a full day of hard labor often 12+ hours...

taking our jobs away I dont think so .... taking over and filling in the gap for jobs others feel above is more like it.


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## Robin1 (Nov 11, 2007)

> QUOTE(stormy @ Nov 10 2007, 12:46 PM)
> If anyone has any reasonable answer to the problem of illegal immigration please present it. There would not be such a large share of illegals in this country if they were not being offered jobs, in fact if all the illegal immigrants left today our food supply would be in serious danger, they are the main work force for farms, slaughter plants and fruit and vegetable producers nation wide and to our own shame the reason these jobs are so readily available is because so many of the unemployed and welfare supported individuals here don't feel they should have to do such hard and dirty work. I sure don't know what the answer is but I don't think a many miles long fence is it.....reforming the system for recieving work visas would be a big step in the right direction.
> 
> And I will also say I have seen the terrible, hopeless poverty many of these people live in and if I lived in it had a famiy and children to support and saw a chance to put my hands to work to give them an opportunity at life I sure as heck would climb even the tallest fence to do it!
> ...


Sorry, not "totally" in agreement here. I live in Arizona and we have a MAJOR problem.

There was a potato chip factory that fired 500 illegal "immigrants" and had over 2,000 legal citizens standing in line to get an application.

As for those standing on corners looking for work, have you ever stopped and asked them to do something for you? Before it became illegal to hire someone who is illegal, we used to "try" and hire them when we could to do things like mow the lawn and trim the hedges. They would look at the yard (it takes me an hour to mow it and I am SLOW) and they wouldn't do it for anything less than $40 and that was if you talked them down.

To add to this, we went a very long time around here without losing any Police officers to violence, in the last couple of years out of the 7 Officers killed in the line of duty, 6 were killed by illegal immigrants.

Robin


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## Jill (Nov 11, 2007)

TriggynBluenDaisy Too said:


> Heck if Hillary Care becomes a reality, where will all those poor Canadians go when they need serious health care.


How true!!!! And, when I think harder about just how true, it wipes the smirk right off my face.


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## J.E.F. (Nov 11, 2007)

Here in my area, wages have droped from a living wage to minium wage, Meat processing plants have lowered the wages from $12.00 to $5.45 an hour. Why because illigal aliens have moved in and will work for that wage. Construction jobs have also been taken by illigal aliens, lowering the wages to mimium wage. Road construction jobs are all taken by illigal aliens most dont even speak enough english to direct traffic. We have several trailer manufactors in this area, wages for welders have droped from 20. per hour to 5.45 an hour. *Jobs that people want do*?? The facts are that legal citizens cant afford the cut in pay to do the jobs. If the Illigal aliens were not here taking the jobs and lowering the wages we could have fewer people on welfare and the other programs. I am tired of hearing "*THEY ARE ONLY DOING THE JOBS NO AMERICAN CITIZEN WILL DO"* when the facts are that no one can work for those wages and support a family. Your Horse trailer was most likely built by illigal aliens, did it cost you any less? your fenceing was most likely built by illigal aliens did you get it cheaper? Cheap labor lowers the ecomony, not betters it. With less money in the cash flow the higher the prices. Oh yes and dont forget that the largest portion of the Mexican government economy is the money sent there by the illigal aliens. It is a LARGER part than their oil exports.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH LEGAL IMMIGRATION!!!! And the only way to stop illigal immigration is to fine the owners of any buisness that hires them. These fines should be so high that it could break the company! This should include the the full board members of any cooperation as well for they are running the company.

Please dont think that things will not get done by legal citizens if we send the illigal aliens back and fine the companies so they will not hire them. Identy theft is growing very rapidly why because illigal aliens are useing someone elses SS # Where do you think they get those. illigal documents can and are sold daily for thousands of dollars. The illigal drugs are carried in by illigal aliens not just a few ounces but 100 s of pounds a day.

More than 50% of the produce in stores are imported, it is cheaper to import it than raise it here. That is why so many family farms are in bankruptcy. And why so many of the children who were raised on farms go into other jobs.

The reason most manufactoring jobs have been outsourced to other countries, Why, because of cheap labor. If these jobs are in Mexico and other countries Why is their life so bad there, because of the wages. They cant work for the car factories and textile factories they cant make a living on what is paid, so they come here for better wages even if it is 5.45 an hour. add that to that the food stamps, tax credits, rent assistance, medical benifits, and the utility assistance, they get wages in excess of 35.00 an hour most of it from your pocket in the form of taxes.

We struggle with Legal citizens getting child medical care for the poor and dont even think of the free medical for all illigal aliens.

These are just a few points in this battle. I didnt even mention the lack of patroitism shown by those who choose to support the illigal aliens.


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## Izzyantheminis (Nov 11, 2007)

But without all those illegal aliens ruining the country who would fill the role of America's favorite scapegoat ???


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## misfitminis (Nov 11, 2007)

I agree with your post. There is a legal way to immigrate to the USA. However we have a larger and silent problem [SIZE=36pt]:import of products from China.[/SIZE] It is really tough to find products made in the USA. This is going to damage our economy more than illegal immigrates. Please during holiday shopping try to not buy from China. The state of Maine is very self sufficient. More states need to work towards this goal or at least import from another state.


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## Shari (Nov 11, 2007)

I can just talk about where I live. You say Mexcians do all the farm work?

Here is what I have seen...

3 years I have been here in this state.... the strawberry fields are left rotting....fruit orchards are left rotting and from talking with one of the folks...it has been like this for a long time. So the illegals are picking food for the country... ah nope..not here.

So where are they. Both Seattle and Portland have a program for illegals.. no green cards needed. They have buildings these folks can go to, to get higher paying jobs..and that is where they are now..not the fields.

One of the jobs is working for contractors. The illegals get $12.00 to $25.00 an hour under the table. So they do not pay taxes. You know....remember how they break into our house.

I know some people that are construction workers....good people...born here..pay their taxes and so on. Who can't find jobs because the illegals are working for much less.

So anyone who tells me the illegals are only doing work others do not want to do.....sorry but that is so far from the truth it isn't funny.

The two farms I buy produce from... one has no mexicans illegal or other wise working on them...the other only have 2 green cards out of the 30 people they have working there. Others are locals, american born white and black folks.

Most of our older teen children have to start out at min wages which is about $7.15 an hour. Some work very hard. But even at min wage, a lot of places will not hire teens that do not have a lot of experance.

Or people born here fall on hard times and are unable to get help to get back on their feet.

Why is it.. illegals can march into this country and get better paying jobs than people born here?

Why are they so specical that the gov seems to think everything should be in spanish now, or that the illegals get free health care when America born Elders can't afford to go see the Doc or hard working american borns die of cancer because they have no health insurance?

Why do the illegals get free health, schooling, drivers licences...all on our tax dollars? When the ones paying the taxes can't get help.

I help with the food bank and here is what I see. Elders that really need our help... they need food and medical. Illegals come in and get free hand outs because no one gets turned away. And those elders..... they are left with one meal a day. I wish I could help and give more but I can't afford too. Those illegals have no rights to come here and demand and expect food for free....while others go hungry.

I have friends that go to central mexico and live their half of the year. They are no rich at all. One would be suprised that many that come to the US illegally are not as bad off as we are made to think.

But they come here because they have made us to believe they deserve better than anyone else on the planet. They come because they get free food, schooling, housing, medical and so on. While in their home country they would have to pay....just like we have to in this country.

They come to this country demanding that we feed, house, medical, teach their kids and clothes them. While most send their money back to mexico and do not pay taxes. They demand we speak their language....which I have a major problem with. All my family had to learn english to become part of this country.

They come in and many...yes... many demand we give them CA, NM, and AZ....because they should be part of mexico. Don't believe...do some internet searching.

This has gotten out of hand.


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## StellaLenoir (Nov 11, 2007)

I know some people that are construction workers....good people...born here..pay their taxes and so on. Who can't find jobs because the illegals are working for much less.

This is what my husband goes through.!!!!

He now has his own buisiness, and will NOT hire illegals. His bids for jobs are higher, because his guys pay taxes.

In our market, most homes are built by illegals, and built WRONG they do not care about thier work, (of cousre not all) the codes are not followed, and it makes me so mad!!


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## kaykay (Nov 11, 2007)

why does jenn's name say unregistered?

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this issue. My son is thinking about signing up to protect the border in Mexico for one year after he finishes ARMY AIT. Scares the crap out of me


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## tigeresss (Nov 11, 2007)

Wow I am very embarrassed for a few people who have replied to this thread and have showed their disgusting personalities.

Oh and for the record I would take Canadian healthcare over US healthcare ANY day. Before you ask, yes I have experienced BOTH systems.

I have mixed feelings about these issues and have zero problems with people coming through the legal way. Where we are even the homeless people will not do certain jobs, i.e. harvesting, and those dirty "cleaner" jobs, assembly lines etc. So immigrants (both legal and illegal) do these jobs, they are paid properly, and they do a job that NOBODY else will do. I'd LOVE to see the US or Canada without all of those immigrants doing our "dirty work" for us.

I don't have much of an opinion on illegal immigrants because I haven't decided where I stand on the matter yet. However, I would say the illegal immigrant problem is MUCH worse in the UK than it is in the USA.

Not to mention the fact that Canadians and US citizens are all the product of mass immigration.

That being said I know MANY legal immigrants, in fact where I live is considered to be more British than England. Haha. The immigrants I know (from all over the globe) are all working in good jobs, pay their taxes and contribute to society in a positive way.


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## babygoose (Nov 11, 2007)

I agree totally with the OP. I live and work very close to the border. My job takes me along the border. We have occasional safety talks from Border Patrol (BP) people and a large percentage of people coming across the border these days are not poor people looking for work to support their families. They are drug dealers, gang members, convicted sex offenders, muderers and rapists. We are no longer allowed to work alone within 30 miles of the border. We have to go in pairs and check in on the radio every hour. Before the national guard was assigned to the border, the amount of people coming across our area was mind boggling. They would stage at a little town along the border on the Mexico side. The town was set up to assist people coming across. They would bus them there in busses with the windows darkenend so the BP can't see how many are on there. They have food and water vendors set up to supply the people getting ready to cross. They all just sit and wait until dark and then flood across in so many numbers that the BP could not catch them all. This little town was recently torn down as a result if talks between Mexico and US officials. But it doesn't stop. The Mexican government assists in people getting across along with Mexican law enforcement.

Ranchers that live on the border have all kinds of trouble with illegals. They have stuff stolen and destroyed. People are not coming across the border to work on these ranches to support their families anymore. They want a free handout. They want to get in so they can collect all the welfare etc. One rancher stopped giving them water etc, and the next thing they know word got out. They came home to find their house vandalized and their dogs killed and hung up on the porch. These migrants break livestock waters and leave water running to be wasted in a desert where water is precious. A coworker and I came across illegals one day on the job and luckily they took off when they saw us. We were scared because we were two women against five men otherwise. A few years back a rancher had a truck stolen at gunpoint. One illegal jumped out and put a gun to his head and told him to get out. Then five more came out of the bushes and jumped in the truck and took off. What if that would have been the ranchers wife? What would they have done to her?

I think there is still the impression that these illegals are all poor suffering people just desperate to make a living. Some still are. But many of those people are coming across for a handout, not work. This is proven by the fact that the farmers and ranchers that use to hire these people, pay them, and the workers would go back to Mexico with the money and come back the next year. Now ranchers are afraid of these people. They don't want to work anymore.

Yes things are bad in Mexico. Many people live in poverty there. I have nothing against someone coming here to work hard and support a family, either here or in Mexico. But many don't.

I have no problem with cultural diversity. I live in New Mexico and there is no shortage of cultural diversity here. We have native american tribes, we have old spanish families that have been here for many many years. But I think that people need to work for a living. I also don't like the language thing. Learn english if you want to live here. I don't care if you keep your spanish language, teach it to your kids and keep the culture. But don't force everybody else to speak Spanish and expect special treatment. Come to the US legally, live by the laws here, work to support your family, and I am okay with that.


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## joylee123 (Nov 11, 2007)

Jenn said:


> In Canada, when our doorbell is rung by immigrants, we open it and welcome them in with open arms.
> 
> That way, they don't have to break in.
> 
> ...


[SIZE=12pt]And look how the crime rate has risen and all the other problems Canada has that it didn't when I was a kid



[/SIZE]


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Nov 11, 2007)

Robin1 said:


> As for those standing on corners looking for work, have you ever stopped and asked them to do something for you? Before it became illegal to hire someone who is illegal, we used to "try" and hire them when we could to do things like mow the lawn and trim the hedges. They would look at the yard (it takes me an hour to mow it and I am SLOW) and they wouldn't do it for anything less than $40 and that was if you talked them down.
> 
> To add to this, we went a very long time around here without losing any Police officers to violence, in the last couple of years out of the 7 Officers killed in the line of duty, 6 were killed by illegal immigrants.
> 
> Robin


I am not negating your experience it is your experience I can tell you mine is very different. Yes I have had them do work for me and they worked hard and were grateful for the work doing things I sure couldnt get anyone to do when trying to hire thru normal ways- paper, employment agencies, job services ...

I do wonder though who we will blame everything on if tomorrow with the wave of a magic wand and make this problem go away.





I grew up in So Cal so this is not an issue that didnt effect our area or me personally - I do know people who have come here illegally some have been here for years and years- some are great people some not so much no different then any one else or any other group- there is no easy answer especially knowing the life they came from and the poverty they are trying to leave. Do some abuse the systems put in place to help - yep but then again I know plenty of Americans that are more then adept at that as well

I dont have the answer but I do think that making it a us against them, a good vs bad type of thing can and will only make things worse but that is JMO and I totally understand that many on both sides of this issue are very passionate


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## PaintedPromiseRanch (Nov 11, 2007)

babygoose said:


> I also don't like the language thing. Learn english if you want to live here. I don't care if you keep your spanish language, teach it to your kids and keep the culture. But don't force everybody else to speak Spanish and expect special treatment. Come to the US legally, live by the laws here, work to support your family, and I am okay with that.



























that's what my mom and grandma had to do when they immigrated here from europe


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## tagalong (Nov 11, 2007)

TriggynBluenDaisy Too said:


> You'll have to excuse Jenn. She lives in BF Alberta and only got to the big city in her college days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is this thread really turning into a bash Canada or the US thing?

That was not the OP's intent.

And there is no reason for anyone to be rude. BF, Alberta, is not on any map, by the way. No more than BF, Alabama, would be.

*Triggy* - I grew up in Canada.

In big cities.

And yet I was not "fed the propaganda" that you state is the norm for "most Canadian youth".

Wow.

Nor was anyone else I know.

Oh - I live in the real world.

And my eyes are open, thanks.

Onw can disagree with a post without resorting to ridicule and sneering. On both sides.

Canada does has immigration problems. Just not as bad as the US.

And as my nest egg has been wiped out from medical bills here - I have danced both sides of the health care issue and been involved with both sytems - or the lack thereof. And thus I know that the Canadian one worked better for me - even with all its faults. Just my personal experience - and no "propaganda" involved. Not every "poor Canadian" has to go south for "serious health care" as you imply - yet that has almost achieved Urban Legend status....

And the living and perks are good in Canada, too. Different strokes for different folks.

Both Canada and the US are always in the Top Ten countries in the world as rated by standard of living, economy etc. - so I am not sure why one would bother arguing about it. Currently the CAN $ is higher than the US $... as it used to be. But that can always change - and likely will - as it has in he past.

Whatever.

Back on topic.

I am here on a work visa. Legally. And yet in the past I have been treated like dirt by INS/Homeland Security officials... yelled at, sneered at. But that seems to be the _modus operandi_ for some of them so I just nod and smile. Never let them see you sweat...

But when I saw one officer screaming in the face of a recently widowed, very elderly Asian man who was moving from Vancouver to Seattle to spend the few years he had left living with his great-grandson's family so they could care for him... when I saw that officer get red in the face, pound on the counter and howl at the confused old gentleman - HOW DO I KNOW YOU ARE NOT A SECURITY RISK? WHY SHOULD *I* ALLOW *YOU* INTO *MY* COUNTRY!!??!!!

There was an audibile _hisssssss_ from the crowd in that room. One can do one's job without being a bully... and evaluating each situation on its own merit. Some of the _sh... stuff_ I have seen being done... well, suffice to say it was totallly inappropriate and unnecssary.

But after all the flaming hoops I have had to jump through - and all the sacrifices I have made - it infuriates me to see any mention of Illegals being given amnesty - or even a "fast track" to a green card - or even skipping that and simply letting them start the citizenship process.

That is a major slap in the face and kick in the teeth for those of us who have done everything the Right Way... all the miles of paperwork, the rude officials... yet we did everything as requested, in the right order, in the right way. For what??!!?? Only to have it hinted that illegals will be given precedence??? And that they are more valued in some way?

That is very frustrating...


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## rockin r (Nov 11, 2007)

I live in Oklahoma. Just recently they passed a law concerning illegals's. Quite the topic around here! But you got to start somewhere. I know alot of poor oklahomans who can not get help for their families, but have seen many times illegals get it. I moved here from Fla. 6 yrs ago. I lived there since 1968. I know that places change. I lived in Ft. Lauderdale. It has become a hodge-podge of languages, and certainly English is not one of them. 80% of the street signs are in Cuban, almost all of the convience stores are Iranian owned and operated, if you are burglarized most likely by an illegal there is nothing to be done about it. I go back every year to see my son, D-I-L and grand-daughter, this past Feb. I was in the Ft. Laud airport and after 40 mins. of trying to get thru the airport I NEVER ONCE HEARD ANYONE SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!! I left that once wonderful state that I called my home for 33 years because of this. And Miami is a lost cause. Fla. is no longer a state, it is a country within many countries. To me this is a very, very sad position the US is in.


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## TriggynBluenDaisy Too (Nov 11, 2007)

tagalong said:


> Is this thread really turning into a bash Canada or the US thing?
> 
> *Not until Jenn's comments--as always she takes her trollish digs and exits, expecting no one to challenge a thing she says. This wasn't the first time, she has a stellar history of it.*
> 
> ...


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## Buckskin gal (Nov 11, 2007)

Where the finger really needs to be pointed is at all the emplyers who are hiring these illegal immigrants. Yes, they come because they will be hired for less money than what an American citizen would expect to be paid. I have seen wealthy Americans get richer with hiring the illegals. They are the ones who are screaming "they are only doing jobs that Americans won't do!!!!" It is all about getting the cheap labor that illegals provide and since the rich employers pay them only peanuts the rest of us have to help pay for the medical, food stamps etc. that they need. So true, that good jobs such as construction have been taken over by the illegals who will work for less, leaving the American people without jobs. And it is also true that drug pushers are sneaking into this country and creating more problems than our law enforcement can handle. Build the wall, if that is what is needed.



Mary


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## LowriseMinis (Nov 12, 2007)

TriggynBluenDaisy Too said:


> tagalong said:
> 
> 
> > .I often wonder when someone is so pro Canada, why are they here?
> ...


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## Danielle_E. (Nov 12, 2007)

Wow



, right to the gutter this has gone by some comments but I looked at one name and I wasn't surprised one bit, it's the usual ......

Many do come into Canada illegally but our system is very lenient and once they are in and found out then they plead that if they are returned to their country they will be tortured, or killed, etc. It takes years and years and taxpayers $$ to review these cases and even when immigration comes back with deportation orders most just vanish before this can happen. There are problems like this in every country, especially because the birth rates have dropped so more immigrants, legal or illegal are needed. Populations are aging faster than births....

With regads to the comments about health care in Canada, I will stick with ours thank you very much. I know many of you despise Michael Moore but I find his documentaries interesting and thought provoking, especially the one I just viewed last week "Sicko", it was a real eye opener. England also has a wonderful health care system in place as many other countries as well. I know many of you think if you have this kind of health care it automatically means socialism across the board but one gentleman interviewed in sicko from the U.K. had it down pat, what an intelligent gentleman that is. I know those of you who reside in the U.S. love your country and so you should but please don't think we don't love ours and all want to move to the U.S. That is just not true and I am very happy to be Canadian and remain right where I am, thank you very much. I loved to travel in the past, it always made me appreciate my country the more and I am sure you all feel the same as well which is the way it should be.


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## Jesper (Nov 12, 2007)

it's the same problem all over the world.

over here they want to give houses to families that have already had their immigration application denied, houses? I can hardly find a small apartment I can afford. those people should be sent back.

those that come legally are fine

but again, I have worked illegally in the US, I would have preferred it had been legally but that is almost impossible, it is quite a bit easier to get into Denmark then into the US.

a way to solve this problem would be to help people do it right, so they can pay taxes, and what else is needed, have them get the same pay as americans would work for, then and ship people back, huge fines for companies hiring illegals.

then weed out the rotten apples, do you want to pay $15/hour for a cruddy quality or $5/hour for good quality labor? (lets say a construction worker) ??

anyways, I have been on both sides of the fence, and if it was possible within reason to immigrate to the US then I would consider it but I would have to think it through big time before doing so...


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## Danielle_E. (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi Jesper



nice to see you again.

I wouldn't worry about it Jesper, about you working in the U.S. As I recall you weren't there for an extended period of time. I believe most here are speaking about those that go into the U.S. and stay for an extended period of time....

In sicko there is a woman from the U.S. who was or still is coming over to Canada to get her prescriptions filled out and to be seen by a clinic here in order to do so. She basically does this by saying she is this gentleman over in Windsor's common law wife. I know that many elderly from the U.S. come over on day trips in order to be able to afford their medication, it's quite sad really. For me if you don't have your health you have nothing in life and I would never deny people the basic health care. I know that someone earlier posted a family incident and was irrate about illegal immigrants getting health care which was bogging down the wait time. You know if I was at emergency at a hospital and someone who was an illegal immigrant came in and was in need of urgent medical attention more than I, I wouldn't mind one bit. I would never deny anyone urgent medical care, no matter who they were or where they were from. Usually hospital emergency wards take the most critical cases first and then everyone else is first come first served with non life threatening symptoms or emergencies, at least here it is.


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## Shari (Nov 12, 2007)

The ER .....at least where my Mom went... were bogged down with illegals...that should of just went to their own doctors. Except they do not have one, because remember...they broke into our house. So they take them in order as they come in..from a hang nail to needing cough meds...nothing they should be in an ER for.

That hospital and many like it... take patients first come,, first dealt with. Doesn't matter if your arm is detatched from its body...or having a massive stroke. The real emergancys are not dealt with first.

Sorry but I stand by what I say. If they are not here legally...they should not get free care...and free care at the expense of people that were born here, paying taxes and so on, that are having real emgerancys.

The other problem ...as I have said before. Is there are many elders...born here, pay taxes that can't afford health care, let alone meds they need. DR will not even seen them if they can't pay. Yet.. Illegals get free care. Is wrong on so many levels.

I guess you have to live witih this problem every day to understand.

And with the illegals..we are not talking about 1 or 2 people...or even a hundred. Try to wrap your mind around 1 MILLION... "plus" illegals looking for free hand out. (and I am not talking about the rare few that come through legally)


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## Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis (Nov 12, 2007)

Hmm there is a law i thought everywhere at least in every state I have ever been in where ER's do have to take the most serious of injuries first and most I have been to do so I have never seen then leave someone with a gun shot or stab wound sitting there in the waiting room while someone with a hangnail was seen- but that has been my experience

there have been times I have been in there for a asthma attack something they usually walk me right thru for with no waiting - but sometimes i have sat there having a very hard time breathing for 45 min to over an hour waiting cause ohters more critical came in of course.. at that moment when i am gasping for every breath I am sure I am more critical but I dont have a medical degree or cant see why everyone else is there


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## Shari (Nov 12, 2007)

Then Lisa...you are very lucky. My parents retired to CA because the weather is nicer than it is in NE. And they are not the only ones I know, that are having those kinds of problems down there.

The DR and ER nurses were the ones telling my Dad that they were so full up of Illegals..that my Mom had to be lifelighted to another hospital that wasn't. They admited that they dare not turn any of them away. Though did not tell my Dad why. Shrug... I can only go by what I know.

I know other parts of the country do not have those problems..... yet.


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## Margo_C-T (Nov 12, 2007)

Shari, IMO your original post was right 'on point', as were your others on this thread-and you are ABSOLUTELY correct in standing by them.

I have lived relatively near the Mexican border for a LOT of years; I have seen this situation 'up close', from several perspectives, and how things have changed, mostly for the MUCH WORSE,over time...I will only add that babygoose and Robin1 know whereof they speak.

Margo


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## Buckskin gal (Nov 12, 2007)

Shari, You are right on as far as what I have seen and experienced myself. I become more discouraged all the time about paying for illegals health care because it is difficult enough to help pay for the Americans who won't pay for their health care. Both my hubby and I pay extremly high health insurance rates because of the costs of doctors and hospitals keep going up and up and a lot of it is we get charged more to cover the costs of those who don't pay!!



We are on a fixed income and yet have no choice but to keep paying the higher rates for our health coverage....it means giving up more all the time to pay for those who won't pay and this does anger and frustrate me. And what makes me even more upset is to see how those who don't pay for their medical needs are able to spend money on luxury items. .....yes, even horses. More and more I see how the middle class are slowly becoming the next lower class just because we have to pay for those who don't pay



If each person paid for their own needs, many of us would be better off. Mary


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## Danielle_E. (Nov 12, 2007)

I guess I am saying that there are problems with all systems. As i said we have Americans coming into our country and using our system here, we have illegal immigrants doing the same, we also have immigrants that don't have landed status, will use our system for free health care when needed but go back to their homeland for the rest of the year and not pay taxes here. There are no quick fixes but I refuse to deny ANYONE the basics in life, and healtcare is one of them. And if my tax dollars has to help those people, that's fine by me. We are fortunate, us in the Americas to have such a high standard of living. That is where we, the Canadians get the label that we are "more tolerant" Here we have the "WE" mentality, opposed to the "ME" mentality and I think it's because Canada is such a "meltingpot" of various ethnic people.


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## heart k ranch (Nov 12, 2007)

I for one don't like working my butt off and get over a hundred dollars taken out of it because of illegals!

2. Then worry about driving because if they hit me they won't have insurance to pay for my truck.

3. Then if I have to go to the doctor I have to pay and the illegals go in for free!!!

4. Getting people that walk into work asking me if I talk spanish. NO.

5. This is what tickES ME OFF THE MOST! Is when they have the Mexican flag up everywhere and them making fun of the US!

6. Them lowering wages because the illegals do it for almost nothing.

All I have to say is come in and do it legally. Pull your own weight and don't make others pull it for you!




Sorry for the rant!


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## susanne (Nov 12, 2007)

Overheard on a late night talk show monologue:

It's Columbus Day...or as the Native Americans call it, Illegal Immigration Day.

........................

This is not to say there is no problem with our immigration system, but when we scream about illegal aliens taking jobs, we must also scream about the employers who do not want to pay a living wage, payroll taxes or insurance needed to hire an American citizen. They are the ones creating the loud sucking sounds of an economic vaccuum for the sake of profits. It is not that people are not willing to work...it is that they are not willing to"bend over."

...........................

As for Emergency Rooms...

I can only speak for Portland, Oregon, hospitals, but these Emergency Rooms ALL function on a triage system. Patients are seen in order of severity of injury/illness.

There are just as many legal US citizens who use the ER for non-emergent illnesses because they can't afford to see a regular doctor, or would have to wait three weeks to get in.

If you need to verify these facts, I can put you in contact with a number of ER employees...doctors, nurses administrators and other staff.


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## tagalong (Nov 12, 2007)

> *Oh for crap sake, it's a joke lighten up.*


Ummmmm.... I was snarking about BF, Alabama, too... for the record. Thus I do not need to "lighten up" - I already was!








> *Well maybe because you did live in the city and actually experienced a balanced point of view from your peers.*


Well, then I should have seen more of this "propaganda"... especially growing up in Montreal..._ *shrug*_ I am not really sure why you are using the term "propaganda", actually....



> *I just love comments like this from those who truly don't see their own comments ever as being full of ridicule and sneering. Of course like always you will swear to heaven and earth that nothing you've ever said has been offensive in any way. Pot, kettle, black, isn't that your usual retort?
> 
> 
> 
> *


And again - why the personal bashing? Yes - I can get sarcastic just as you can - but where did I say *Pot. Kettle. Black* this time?? I have used it in the past where it applied. And only then.



> *Give it time and when you are in the same boat then you'll understand why so many here are as fed up with the whole thing as they are. So as for your eyes being open, I don't think so.*


Well, if you had actually read my post instead of jumping all over it - you would have seen that I am frustrated/fed up with the illegal aliens situation as well. So yes, my eyes are open. On both sides of the border. To all the problems that abound...



> *I often wonder when someone is so pro Canada, why are they here? I think Canada is a lovely place but it's certainly not a place I'd willingly choose to live if I weren't born there. *
> ****
> 
> I read threads like this and I often wonder the same thing.


Those comments make me a bit sad... wow.

It is human nature to be supportive of where you were born, where you grew up - and where your roots are. You do that. I do that. One can do that and still be appreciative of one's current situation.... and yet have a view from the other side of the "fence" as well...

When it is suggested that uttering positive comments of any kind about another place means one should be held in suspicion/sneered at - or should just Go Away...





Silly me - I was offered a JOB here - in an area that I have always visited and loved (did not take the job from anyone - and it will not exist when I leave) and accepted it. I have gone through all the heartbreaking hassles, expense and LEGAL paperwork etc., pay my taxes, obey the law, do many hours of volunteer work a week and carry on like all my American friends and love my life (minus the health care issues) ... I find it unsettling that some can sit in judgement of that and decide that I am"unworthy" of being here. Or that I am only entitled to an opinion if it is the "right" one.... if you moved elsewhere - would you not defend/support the US in such conversations if you had experience in that topic? Of course you would...

And if you feel the need to continue to bash - please do it by PM...


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## Buckskin gal (Nov 12, 2007)

Well I can't agree that most Americans have a "me" mentality. What some of us do have is a very concerned mentality that if we take on more than our pocket books can handle we just may end up on those welfare rolls and entitlement programs which we want nothing to do with because we like independence...now if that is wrong, so be it. My hubby and I worked very hard and gave up a lot for ourselves to raise our kids without using entitlement programs ...in fact we felt very responsible for meeting our own and their needs but that is how we think it should be. The entitlement programs are give aways to many people who just don't want to meet their own needs in fact many of them drive much better vehicles than we do. I just don't like my freedoms taken away while others are being so darn dependent on the rest of us. We don't live in luxury, we are conservative and don't waste or use credit cards to get ourselves in debt..never have and never will. A lot of people could make much better choices and not have to be on welfare or entitlement programs but they don't and want the rest of us to pay their way. I would never deny someone who really needs help but too many are needy because of bad choices. JMHO Mary



Danielle_E. said:


> I guess I am saying that there are problems with all systems. As i said we have Americans coming into our country and using our system here, we have illegal immigrants doing the same, we also have immigrants that don't have landed status, will use our system for free health care when needed but go back to their homeland for the rest of the year and not pay taxes here. There are no quick fixes but I refuse to deny ANYONE the basics in life, and healtcare is one of them. And if my tax dollars has to help those people, that's fine by me. We are fortunate, us in the Americas to have such a high standard of living. That is where we, the Canadians get the label that we are "more tolerant" Here we have the "WE" mentality, opposed to the "ME" mentality and I think it's because Canada is such a "meltingpot" of various ethnic people.


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## Shari (Nov 12, 2007)

Don't go to St John's hospital. Not as much problem with the illegals filling it it up. But the ER doc there...can't be trusted.

Sent hubby home with three badly broken ribs,,,telling him he did not have broken ribs..but I knew better. Then have the head ER doc call up in a panic the next morning telling me to drive him in because they made an mistake.

Or when I came off the horse...they told hubby to take me home..but no one could move me because everytime they did I blacked out because of the pain. I could not move nor had any feeling on the left side of my body from mid back down my left leg at all. Only once I came out of it because hubby...the one that is very good with people...was loosing his temper. It takes a whole lot for him to loose his temper with people. They told him nothing was broken. But when they sent me in for xrays and a MRI, after he made them pay attention.... found my back and hip was broken, among other problems.

They would of made him bring me home... who knows how.. if he did not make them pay attention. Because there was no way for him to pick me up and no way I could even move.

I know why.. because of my medical insurance.

I know this is thread drift...but that hospital is a dangerous joke.

I know there are major problems with the US medical system. Heck.. only one Doc in this whole area..within an hours drive will take my Military medical insurance. Why..because they do not pay enough. Once reason I can't get good care. Sigh ~~~

Susanne you are lucky to be near or know of good Doc.

For me it is not a We or they mentality....... it is the shear numbers of people freeloading on an already loaded system in some areas. Like I said before... much of what I spoke of is in certain areas of the US for ...now. And unless you have dealt with the problem first hand..it is hard to imagine.

I help people....again as I said before. Elders mostly because they have no one.... but what I do know...is the US can't save the world...we can't afford to give every tom, dick or harry a free ride. US is not paved in gold... but on the backs and taxes of those who are legally there.

Many can't afford to give any more in taxes or other wise because of those expecting a free ride. There is not one good reason why they should have too.

There is a jail here... and yes.. I have in roads because of Hubby's father. One jail alone is forking out $395,000 a month to house Illegal bad people. Instead of us having to pay for said illegal bad people...when we have enough of our own... why doesn't the US just ship them back when they came from?

We do that with anyone other country in the world...why not with mexicans?

If the mexicans came in legally...I doubt anyone including me, would have any issues with it. Other countries have to come in the Legal way....or they get shipped home.

But again...it is the shear number of freeloaders coming in, they are taking jobs..and it has nothing to do with the illegals being scapgoats... it is just the facts for those having to deal with it.

I have family living in Canada and they are not having to deal with what the US is in this matter. Hubby has family in Alberta and mine in Nova Scotia.

But I have talked with both sides and even they admit Canada could not better handle what is going on down here if they had to take in 1 million plus people that expect a free ride. Is more likely the whole system would colapse.

Here is what I would love to see happen.

That if all other countries must follow the immigration rules, that should go for Mexico. Mexico is not the most poor country in the world nor are they more special.

They should not be demanding we give them states.

They should not be demanding we change the languge to spanish.

They should not be marching in the streets saying they are the only ones that "made" America. (because they are not.... the Irish.....and many more helped make this country....just wasn't the mexicans)

Marching in the streets waving the mexcian flag...saying Viva Mexico... all the while most aren't legal.

They should not demand to have free housing, medical, drivers licences..when they can't even read english, food, school and so on....if they have not gone through the proper legal system to get their green cards.

Many work under the table pay no taxes and get away with things no one else does.... all because they are mexican.

Do I hate mexicans? May seem like it but that is not the case. I just don't like the freeloaders.

And yes... I would like the empolyers using the illegals get tagged and tagged hard. But what kind of message does the state send out...when they build buildings for the illegals to go to get work? What I am seeing is WA & OR is saying this kind of behavior is ok. And until the states follow the rules nothing is going to change.

Even on the News..the illegals...saying they have no fear the US will send them home.





The American born Elders will not get the help they need... working family that can't afford health insurance will not get help. They are being pushed even more to the side.

It is a bloomin mess out there and only going to get worse.


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## Buckskin gal (Nov 12, 2007)

Well said Shari and I would sure march along side of you in protesting the illegals being here. But then it won't change soom because too many well do do are benefiting the illegas being here...those who want cheap housekeepers for example.....won't pay a fair wage to an American! Mary



Shari said:


> Don't go to St John's hospital. Not as much problem with the illegals filling it it up. But the ER doc there...can't be trusted.
> 
> Sent hubby home with three badly broken ribs,,,telling him he did not have broken ribs..but I knew better. Then have the head ER doc call up in a panic the next morning telling me to drive him in because they made an mistake.
> 
> ...


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## tagalong (Nov 12, 2007)

> It is a bloomin mess out there and only going to get worse.


Agreed, *Shari * - and you are right - Canada could not handle an onslaught of a million illegals... with only a tenth the population of the US, that would be overwhelming.

I confess that I saw red when all the Amnesty!! marches were going on... and impassioned illegals were saying that they deserved to be handed Green Cards... or be fast-tracked to the citizenship process. As I said before - watching all that - and seeing some politicians agree with that course of action - felt like a kick in the teeth. One of the Mexican guys on a landscape crew in the neighbourhood told me that he was "embarrassed" by the demonstrations... he is legal - and disagrees with many of his friends and co-workers... he went through the right channels, jumped through the right hoops - and did everything the right way - and seeing others demanding that such things be handed to them made him very uncomfortable.

Do it like the rest of us... no hand-outs - no rewards for breaking the law - and you need to have a Green Card for 5 years before you can start the citizenship process... my temporary work visa status does not entitle me to a Green Card - which is fair - and yet they feel they should simply be handed one? No.

Friends living close to the border in Arizona have a lot of foot traffic creeping by their place most nights... they have sarcastically wondered if they should set up a refreshment stand of some kind...


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## runamuk (Nov 12, 2007)

Shari said:


> And yes... I would like the empolyers using the illegals get tagged and tagged hard.


Believe it or not...Caldwell Idaho's Mayor (I believe) was going to fine all businesses hiring illegals......too bad for him that was illegal, sounded like a great idea.

I worked in Human Resources and guess what.....even if I knew someone we hired was illegal, it was against the law for me to do anything about it. I also was told no copies of drivers licenses, social security cards and I9's were to be kept in an employees file



, that also is illegal and could get us fined...........

So how do we fix this mess?

Recently in a conversation with a wildlife department official I learned that poaching by illegals is becoming a HUGE issue because even when they catch them they have no recourse.....they aren't legal, so to some degree don't exist.

Shari my sister works in a hospital in WA and she occasionally covers duties down in the ER. She has told me many times it is a clinic for illegals.

The system is a mess.............people who want to come in legally get tangled in a nightmare of hoops, and we seem to be extra hard on those coming in from Canada OH! Tagalongs rendition sounds similar to my friends sister in law's ordeal and she was married to a US citizen



but they turned her and the kids around at the border because all of her paperwork was not completed.


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## TriggynBluenDaisy Too (Nov 12, 2007)

Danielle_E. said:


> Wow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Look Dannielle, you have problems with me so be it, but do us all a favor and keep your snotty comments to yourself or better yet PM your minions about what a terrible person you think I am. I don't happen to like the majority of what you say or the things you have done yet I have not bothered to make such a ridiculous issue out of it.

Believe me I could say a lot to you and about you and you probably would deserve it but I don't. I even sent you an email telling you that I thought you had done a lovely thing for Marty, not to make you think different of me because I could give a rip as far as you're concerned but because I genuinely thought it was a gesture from the heart and thought you should be complimented on it regardless how I personally feel about you. My signature was put there in honor of people just like you.

This thread is not about Canadian/US relations but some look for every opportunity they can to slam America and the people in it. Frankly, I've had more than enough of it and I will speak up about it whenever I feel the need. I never once have thought or said Canada is a terrible place. I love this country like they love theirs AND we all have our problems. Neither is some Utopian paradise, but I for one am not slamming Canada for all the things wrong with it and expect the same courtesy. As I said Jenn has a history, as we all do, and her comments were not so much meant to be a positive reflection of Canada but yet another self rightous slam on us. I KNOW I was not the only one who took them that way.

Tag I'm glad you have had a good experience on both sides and do understand the plight we are facing. I didn't say you weren't entitled to be here and if you would go back and reread or point out just where you thought I said that, then I will apologise. You are here legally you said so why would you not be welcomed with open arms? You have not done the things illegals have to milk the system, you used it well within the scope of your rights to do so. And yes, I do wonder why people would leave Canada under any circumstances, jobs or not, to come here. After all are there not all these wonderful opportunities,jobs etc., that some claim are so abundant in Canada? Just curious. It seems so contradictory that's all.





We used to have one of the best health care systems in the world but it is collapsing under the welfare mentality that has brought more than one country to it's knees. A huge part of that is the burden of taking care of others who really have no legal entitlement to it and for that we have ended up forsaking our own. That is the real tradgedy in this whole mess.


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## SunQuest (Nov 12, 2007)

Wow, I could not agree more with the very first post.

And some of the rest of this thread just amazes me. Sorry I am so late to this thread, but after reading all of it, I have some rather strong thoughts. And I have to say that thank heavens we live in a country where we all are FREE to agree or disagree with each other.

I am a daughter of a LEGAL immigrant. And let me tell you, it makes me furious that our government will not enforce the laws that are on record! After all, we don't need new laws, but we need to enforce those that are existing!

My aunt is in the process of writing a book telling about her life and part of it is about living in a nation devistated by war during WWII when she was a young teenager and what all they had to do to get here legally. I was shocked to hear the way they were treated and demoralized just to get approved to immigrate in 1955. For instance, my aunt wrote that her mom and her had to stand in line WITHOUT clothes on to get inspected for health issues infront of USA officials before they got approval and boarded the ship that brought them here!!! Why? It was to protect the members of the USA from health issues, and they were NOT in a 3rd world country at the time! And they had to have a sponsor and then they had NO handouts from the government. They arrived with litterally just the clothes on their backs and they worked their fannies off to learn a job skill and to learn to speak english. No medical handouts, no food stamps, nothing! The sponsors may have secured the initial job for them and that was the most help they had.

I have no problem with work visas and no problem with people immigrating. I would welcome ANY of them with open arms AS LONG AS IT IS DONE LEGALLY where we can be reasonably certain through thorough background and health checks that the people are honest, law abiding, and productive members of society so that our country is not run out of business supporting those who do nothing to return that support to the local communities.

Again, I am not against human rights for everyone and helping those in need, but we must also guard against loosing our rights that we have paid for in dollars and in blood because we are complacent in who we allow to be here and are equally complacent about how much we have to borrow to have to help them. And as a legal citizen of the USA, it is my right to expect that the tax dollars that I work so hard to pay go to the programs that will help those that are in our country legally FIRST and foremost. The only way to not be complacent is to enforce the laws we have to keep illegals out.

And for what it is worth, I am not so nieve as to say or even believe that our friends to the north are not experiencing any of the issues we have, especially when I know for a fact (sister in-law who is in law enforcement for the state of Idaho) that there are MAJOR routes that take illegals from Mexico to Canada which happen to go right through my own state.

And it is not about bashing other countries in any way. It is about making sure that our OWN country doesn't go bankrupt (we are well on our way to this IMO) due to the extra burden from people that don't pay taxes.


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## tagalong (Nov 12, 2007)

> And yes, I do wonder why people would leave Canada under any circumstances, jobs or not, to come here. After all are there not all these wonderful opportunities,jobs etc., that some claim are so abundant in Canada? Just curious. It seems so contradictory that's all.


Why does it seem contradictory? Have you never moved to a different state for a different job? I've moved clear across Canada for different jobs in the past.

There are wonderful and differing opportunities everywhere... are the American friends I have who are living and working in Canada being contradictory? Are there not enough wonderful opportunities etc. here? Of course there are - but that is not the point. We are enjoying new experiences... and meeting new friends... and there is nothing contradictory about that... or wrong.



> I didn't say you weren't entitled to be here and if you would go back and reread or point out just where you thought I said that, then I will apologise. You are here legally you said so why would you not be welcomed with open arms?


Well.... this seemed a bit... off.



> I often wonder when someone is so pro Canada, why are they here? I think Canada is a lovely place but it's certainly not a place I'd willingly choose to live if I weren't born there.


As in - say anything nice about Canada and - get outta here - you should go home as you do not desrve to be here. Can you see that? PMs I got from a few upset members here show I was not the only one who went.... HUH? at that...



> Tagalongs rendition sounds similar to my friends sister in law's ordeal and she was married to a US citizen but they turned her and the kids around at the border because all of her paperwork was not completed.


You can be turned around even if your paperwork is done perfectly. Even if you have supplied all the required information and then some. Why? Because everything depends on the mood of the officer you deal with. They have absolute power.... and have their little routines/games that are designed to try and get you irritated. I know they are "games" - as I have seen them repeated many times... the same lines. Notably the _What Makes YOU Think I Should Allow YOU Into MY Country...._ roared with contempt and with hands pounding on the counter for emphasis. I have seen that played with many different people - and me. I jus nodded and smiled and did not take the bait. Another favourite line I heard a lot... as they handed you your paperwork back and threw the visa at you - and I do mean _threw_ ... _Congratulations!! You have just stolen a job from a fine American citizen!!_

Only... I/we didn't. The employer - who most certainly is a fine American citizen - requested us specifically and has done their own jumping through flaming hoops to make it happen.

It has been a delightful shock at times to deal with an officer who is pleasant, interested and not into bullying - and I have told them so and thanked them. I hope the bullies can be phased out...

The immigration service needs an overhaul - including some of the officers who are the ambassadors for their country at the ports of entry. But most importantly - with the issue of illegal aliens.

_Amnesty??!!_ Not a good idea IMHO.

BTW - I have no love for some Canada Customs officials, either - and I am sure Canada has its own share of rude immigration officials. Two Customs officers decided to charge me $375 duty on my then 5 year old truck - which the paperwork proved was purchased - and came off the assemby line - _in Canada!_


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## kaykay (Nov 12, 2007)

wow is about all i can say at the turn this thread took. Some of this stuff is obviously really personal between specific posters. I have to wonder though as I have posted stuff that hasnt even come close to what is posted on this thread and mine all get deleted lmbo. One of those things that makes you go hmmm??


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## LowriseMinis (Nov 13, 2007)

tagalong said:


> > This reminds me of the time several years ago we drove into Canada. On the way in the customs officer was very welcoming, chatted a moment with us about our visit, welcomed us to Canada and we were on our way.
> >
> > Coming back in we pulled forward to the window and the American officer started yelling at my dad about pulling forward to the window without being waved forward first, because it would have been VERY easy to mistake him for someone making a run for it and, as he made sure we ALL saw his gun, pointed out every person on the border was armed. He proceeded to give us the 20 questions routine about what we'd been doing in Canada and why we were heading back over the border. Then proceeded to imply we'd stolen by buying items at the duty-free stores because we hadn't been in the country for 24 hours.
> >
> > This was 8 years ago but it left me with a VERY strong impression about these two countries. If that's the kind of reception people get coming into America, I'm not shocked we have a horrible international reputation, nor am I shocked people try to sneak in.


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## Jesper (Nov 13, 2007)

> This reminds me of the time several years ago we drove into Canada. On the way in the customs officer was very welcoming, chatted a moment with us about our visit, welcomed us to Canada and we were on our way.
> 
> Coming back in we pulled forward to the window and the American officer started yelling at my dad about pulling forward to the window without being waved forward first, because it would have been VERY easy to mistake him for someone making a run for it and, as he made sure we ALL saw his gun, pointed out every person on the border was armed. He proceeded to give us the 20 questions routine about what we'd been doing in Canada and why we were heading back over the border. Then proceeded to imply we'd stolen by buying items at the duty-free stores because we hadn't been in the country for 24 hours.
> 
> This was 8 years ago but it left me with a VERY strong impression about these two countries. If that's the kind of reception people get coming into America, I'm not shocked we have a horrible international reputation, nor am I shocked people try to sneak in.


ooh that is just like I am treated everytime, but only when I enter the US, other countries are no problem, not even the UK that are VERY strict about who they let in and Holland is just fine too since I only use them as transit country on my way out in the world.

US customs/immigrations is horrid to go through, there you are guilty until proven otherwise


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## Sonya (Nov 13, 2007)

> US customs/immigrations is horrid to go through, there you are guilty until proven otherwise


My husband travels to and from Canada almost every year on his yearly fishing trip with his father. He said he has had problems with both...but more so with the US agents.

Don't know why it is, if it's just bad seeds or the problem lies deeper. To be honest, I don't mind (probably because I'm not the one having to deal with them), I think it is more a way of intimidation than anything and probably what they are told to do and their intent. If people don't feel welcome, that's fine with me...as long as the agents are doing their job and may be stopping something illegal that shouldn't be happening.

Lets face it things are NOT the same here since 9-11. I work in an aviation related govt job and I see restrictions, etc...that were not there before 9-11 and I'm thankful for it.


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## TriggynBluenDaisy Too (Nov 13, 2007)

tagalong said:


> > And yes, I do wonder why people would leave Canada under any circumstances, jobs or not, to come here. After all are there not all these wonderful opportunities,jobs etc., that some claim are so abundant in Canada? Just curious. It seems so contradictory that's all.
> 
> 
> Why does it seem contradictory? Have you never moved to a different state for a different job? I've moved clear across Canada for different jobs in the past.
> ...


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## Sonya (Nov 13, 2007)

Shirley I always enjoy reading your posts...

I find it funny that if we (being americans) says positive things about the U.S. and defend it, there a couple posters who feel we are being smug, etc..

but if a poster says negative things about the U.S. and positive thing about Canada (just using Canada as an example)...they are pro Canada...hmmm, interesting!

Of course we have all strayed from Shari's original post...I don't believe anyone in the U.S. would ever deny a Legal immigrant...but yes there is a problem with illegals and it has to stop.

I live in Michigan and Dearborn has to have one of the largest Arab populations in the U.S. Do I have a problem with it? Absolutely not.....except when they decide to not be a "part" of the U.S. society, not contribute (not only am I talking about taxes) to the well-being of this country, choose to seperate themselves from the rest of the country and are only here to make money. Of course, this is a free country and that is their right, but I don't like it and I don't have to.


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## tagalong (Nov 13, 2007)

> *Why do you insist that I think it's wrong? I don't. We aren't talking about moving to a different state, we are talking about moving to a different culture, laws, social structure, etc. Canada and US may be very similar in some ways but drastically different in others. Again I don't understand that if Canada is such a perfect place, abundant in all ways, why would anyone want to live here if it's so inferior to all things Canadian? The logic eludes me but I guess some are just masochistic?*


I did not say YOU said it was "wrong"... you seem determined to find fault with anything I say..... no matter how mild. Sort of like some of the immigration officers...

And WHERE did I EVER say that everything here was INFERIOR to all things Canadian? Nowhere. And no - I am not a masochist. But thanks for the label.





People move and work in other places in the world for the new experience, as I said - to make new friends - to step beyond their borders (in more ways than one), open their eyes etc. Why do people go to university in other countries? There is certainly nothing wrong with US universities - but they want to have a different experience.



> * Certainly would but I wouldn't be the aggressor in the matter. As I said I wouldn't be slamming someone's country regardless whether I was living there or not but I guess that's just me. Seems like so many here relish any opportunity to do so.*


HUH? Aggressor?? Where was I "slamming someone's country"? I was speaking to the* immigration issue * at hand to start with - just my personal - and very real - experiences. I have not been slamming ANY country... but that is the picture you insist on painting.







> *Ergo I wouldn't willingly choose to live elsewhere but if I did I would be respectful of the place and the people hosting me, not ragging on an on about what a crappy place I thought it was for whatever reason. *


And _again_ - you seem to be insisting that I have been raging (or ragging if you prefer) on and on about what a crappy place this is - when that is NOT the truth. I certainly would not have put up with the visa hassles, sneering and humiliation if that was the case. I had some immigration experiences to share - and a health care one as well as the subject came up. I thought we were discussing _issues_ - not bashing... or at least - that is what some of us were trying to do.



> *Why would a "few upset members", if indeed there really was any, be upset that the above is MY choice? I'm certainly not upset with theirs. Really, how would one be offended if someone else would choose not to live somewhere, give me a break. *



And now you are suggesting that I am lying??!!





Wow.

You missed the point. Or chose to sidestep it.

We went HUH? because you seemed to be saying that saying anything positive about anywhere else - meant you should not live here. And that was truly a HUH??!! moment...

But - whatever. It appears that you simply want to find fault with everything I say - and even things that I never said - and never will say.

SO to get back on topic - I shared my immigration hassles (and it seems that others have encountered rude officials as well)... and denounced those who feel they should skip all that and simply be granted Green Cards/amnesty/whatever they please... when they broke the law.

I say - no, get in line and do things the right way...

Moving _anywhere_ is a privilege - not a right.


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## HGFarm (Nov 13, 2007)

Wow, this is a hot one............

I dont know why this turned into a U.S. /Canada thing here, but I will tell you, I dont live far from Robin1, and yes, we have a SERIOUS problem here! EVERY night on the news, the reports of nothing but crime have shifted over the last couple of years to be pretty much nothing but illegal aliens in the news committing them. Good neighborhoods are now getting a bit scarey to drive through in town.

I will tell you that a lot of 'white collar' crime is being done by illegals from other countries- MANY of whom are coming in through Canada!! Mexico is now trying to outdo Nigeria I think in the 'fraud ring' positions and the fraud rate in AZ and So Cal is going up. I have worked several cases the last few weeks and ALL names involved were hispanic and ALL merchandise stolen is going to Mexico!! They are also stealing people's social security numbers and info, and getting phoney ID's etc... made so they can get a job so the employer doesnt know they are not legal. Then when they open up credit card accounts, etc.. and dont pay, they dont care because it is not their credit that is being ruined!

Yes, the employers here who hire the illegals are SUPPOSED to be fined, but how many times are they reported or get caught?

I know a TON of people here from other countries, and they all came here legally and have worked and been a benefit to society, they are not looting, stealing and killing people.

In 2000, this state had the highest number of illegals per capita, than any other state in the Union and also ranked at the top of the crime rates of many types. We were number 1 in the entire country for property crimes, 2nd for larceny theft, 5th for burglaries, 9th for murder and 15th for aggrevated assaults and robberies.

In 2003 the rate of illegals here in AZ was at 3.1% of the adult population, yet 4.54% of the overall prison population. One of every 22 prisoners is a deportable alien. I understand in CA it is now even higher.

Hospitals in border states provide over $200 MILLION a year in uncompensated emergency care to illegals. And guess what? My insurance costs are going up over 5 TIMES this year!!! 30% of the annual budget in Coshise County (AZ) was spent on illegal aliens. Some of the medical facilities are going bancrupt and closing because they cannot afford to stay open.

In CA, the state budget is being crunched and cutbacks are occuring with Medicaid and Childrens Health insurance programs, but the law makes the hospitals provide free service for illegals. One in five people in CA does not even have insurance, but they cannot get care.

Food stamps are being provided for illegals under deceptive means and our taxes are paying for it.

I could go on and on- it is mind boggling.


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## Dairygirl (Nov 13, 2007)

Shari said:


> Don't go to St John's hospital. Not as much problem with the illegals filling it it up. But the ER doc there...can't be trusted.
> 
> Sent hubby home with three badly broken ribs,,,telling him he did not have broken ribs..but I knew better. Then have the head ER doc call up in a panic the next morning telling me to drive him in because they made an mistake.
> 
> ...


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