# locked stifle--won't unlock



## freedomnjustice (Sep 21, 2013)

Hi all,

I am in need of help again. I just can't seem to get things right yet with these horses. I pen the horses at night. During the day, for the last two months, they pretty much stay penned while we are at work and are turned out about 5 to 7 hours a day. I'm learning that this is not enough and they should be out a lot more; however, I have the fear of repeat laminitis so I was trying to limit their time on the grass. We don't have a dry lot yet. We had a church function today and it was pouring the rain when we left, so I gave hay and left them penned. When we got home about 7 hours later I let them out. The smaller horse couldn't bend his back knee. He is dragging his hoof but took off chasing our goat so it must not be too painful. I've read that he should be able to unlock this on his own, but when I penned them tonight, it was still locked. He had difficulty walking across the pasture. I called our vet but she didn't return my call as of yet. Is this a crisis since he didn't unlock on his own?? I feel so bad....


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## Minimor (Sep 21, 2013)

Sometimes they don't unlock on their own--which means you will have to assist. I have never had this issue and have no hands on experience at unlocking a stubborn one--I do know that it will often unlock if you push the horse backward, and I know my vet book goes into more detail of what to do ( I am outside so cannot look it up at the moment) --hopefully someone else can be more helpful.

I have to ask--why are you concerned with repeat laminitis? Have they had it already? Are they fat? How old are they? Is the grass really lush?


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## Carolyn R (Sep 21, 2013)

I remember the laminitis flare up you had when you got them.

As far as the locked stifle, sometimes an unbalanced diet or bad trim can add to the problem, but stifle issues are a comformation issue, not necessarily anything you did, but the more that they move about the better it is esp for a horse prone to a stifle issue. As far as a dry lot goes, are you able to use step in posts or t posts to fence a small area, and let them chew at that each time you put them out? Even if it is a 50x50, let them chew it down and expand it by 15-20 feet a week after it is chewed down. Maybe get it up to a 50x 100ft track you can put them in when they are not on the main turnout. The little bit that would grow back there would be so minimal, it should be fine. You can also help this along by starting off with an are that is maybe 25x25 mowed down and fenced in, you can lightly salt the area to help dry it out as long as it is not located directly next to a water source.


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## freedomnjustice (Sep 21, 2013)

The older one had a bad bout with it the second day we had them. he was stuck out in the pasture and wouldn't budge. we padded his feet, etc. and got him better. we are first time horse owners and didn't know about lush grass, etc. the grass was pretty high and we now know to keep it short. they were a little pudgy when they came here and have both lost some weight. the father is about 4 and the son is about 2. the time in the grass is still a little confusing because we are supposed to gradually work them up to more time turned out than penned. tomorrow I plan to put them out in the am and let them go most of the day. my goal is to put them out before I leave for work and not bring them in until bed time. I called the vet back and turns out she didn't get the first message. she was actually already out on a call and about 20 min away so she came by. she backed him up, which I tried to do also, and it unlocked but as soon as he went forward it locked again. she gave him some muscle relaxer for the night so that will help loosen. she said after a little time when it stops locking I need to exercise him to help build muscle. we have pretty flat land and its only almost an acre of pasture, so not a lot of options for hard exercise. I have a lunge line but no idea how to use it. I will look on YouTube for exercises for strengthening the stifle. I'm glad she came by. at least I can sleep soundly tonight. thanks for the reply.


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## Marsha Cassada (Sep 21, 2013)

How old is the horse? Is he a gelding?

I'm sorry you are going through this; it is not fun to watch one's horse with this problem.

There are lots of topics on the forum about this issue, so hopefully you can find something while you are waiting for the vet to call. The horse I had would eventually move out of it.

I've heard both sides--it hurts the horse/it doesn't hurt the horse. As I watched mine, it seemed more as though it confused her. I did not really see evidence of great pain in her face or body language.

If you try to do physical therapy with the leg, as I was told to do, by moving it to build up the muscle, beware of the powerful jerk of the leg reflexing.

Try to relax about it; it isn't a crisis.

I feel for you trying to restrict the grazing to prevent laminitis. Seems as though we just can't do everything right sometimes.


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## freedomnjustice (Sep 21, 2013)

all of our fencing is tensile/hot wire. is there an easy way to separate the pasture with the t posts using that wire? would something else do just as well or better? ... I think we have cattle fencing but not sure how much.


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## freedomnjustice (Sep 21, 2013)

p.s. y'all are wonderful as usual!


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## AnnaC (Sep 22, 2013)

Sorry to hear you are having this problem. Keeping the hind toes trimmed well back plus plenty of outside time is essential for stifle problems. Also, if stalled then give them as much space as you possibly can - room to move freely as they walk round so they can avoid having to twist or spin round on their hindquarters to change direction.

Exercise should be done on straight lines, no abrupt turns/circles (no lunging!), walking over poles as Diane suggests is great for helping the leg to work properly and will build up those supporting muscles/ligaments. When leading and obviously needing to make a turn, make it by turning away from the affected leg and on a nice wide circle, dont turn with the locking leg on the inside of the turn.

With two of them on just an acre, they will soon have the grass under control, especially with winter coming. But can you run an electric tape 'fence' across part of the area for the moment and move the fence along as they graze the grass down. The problem with grazing small areas/having small areas for their outside time is that a horse with stifle problems needs more space to move around in - the sooner your boys can get the use of their full paddock the better for the fella with the problem.

Good luck and please keep us posted!


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## ForeverFarma (Sep 22, 2013)

_ Just want to point out that even with excersise, some stifle issues are so bad that they will not improve or quit locking on their own. It's not an issue of making the muscle stronger- the tendon is either too loose or too tight and is slipping out of the groove in which it was meant to stay. I have a gelding that we had to have blistered his stifle was so bad to lock up, and after 6 weeks when we found that did not work for him, we opted to skip the next step of stifle repair and just have it cut. I have to say he's much more pleasant to be around now- when he hurt, he was a pain to deal with and it correlated to days when the stifle was catching worse than others. We did the whole round of exercise with him- backing up, trotting up and down hills, jogs behind the golf cart, etc. and it did not help- the tendon was just too loose for it to help._


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## BSharpRanch (Sep 22, 2013)

I have a friend whose colt had a locked stifle. Long story short the vet did two injections into the stifle about a week or two apart and a month later he was ok. Lock free for five years. They have since moved and I have lost track of them. Non-invasive and less expensive then the surgeries.


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## Minimor (Sep 22, 2013)

Also less effective--I realize the injections...a form of blistering the ligament...work for some, but many others use the injections and get no improvement. Same with nicking the ligament--that often does not help and the actual surgery to cut the ligament is still required. The full surgery is actually quite simple.


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## Marty (Sep 22, 2013)

As said, please don't lunge the horse. He needs to walk in straight lines, not on a radius.

At CMHR we've had quite a bit of success with stifle surgeries on our rescue horses.

I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble.


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## freedomnjustice (Sep 26, 2013)

Justice's stifle is still locked. It unlocks at times when I back him, but it goes right back. Weird how we've had him 2 months and it's just now happening like this. Vet quoted surgery at $500 at an animal hospital that is 2 hrs away and I have no way to get him there. This stinks for him. She didn't think it was painful for him, just more annoying. I think we are going to wait it out at this point. We can't afford the surgery - we are still finishing our barn for winter and have to buy hay. Can't believe I've been "whammied" like this with these babies! It's definitely not an easy thing to have horses, but I do love them. Vet said something about rubbing green palmolive on the knee. I'm afraid to be kicked so I haven't messed with touching his leg. I haven't familiarized myself much with the proper way to do that..maybe the farrier could do some work on his hoof that might help that angle a certain way. I wish this wasn't an issue!! So frustrating!!


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## AnnaC (Sep 26, 2013)

Try to get your farrier to visit as soon as possible to get his toes trimmed back as this may help him. But the farrier needs to be very careful and patient to get the stifle freed up before picking up his leg, also do not allow him to 'hang' on to the leg if your boy snatches it away - at this stage when picked up the leg needs to be held up under the horse, level with his buttocks, not stretched out behind him.

Get those toes trimmed, give him plenty of outside time and space to move around in, walk him in straight lines as often as you can - include a pole or two on the ground as well - anything you can do to help build up his muscles and to generally strengthen the ligaments around the joint.

Many years ago I had a 2yo colt get tangled in a fence while he was temporarily staying with a friend. By the time they got him untangled he had 'damaged/stretched' his hindlegs so badly that both stifles had locked. By moving him gently around one unlocked but the other didn't. This was before I knew about possible treatments for stifle locking so all I could do was to leave him turned out and keep his toes well trimmed. I guess I was lucky because the one stifle never locked again,but the other one, although it did unlock when he moved backwards, still locked up on a pretty regular basis, depending mostly upon where he was kept - stalling him in anywhere less than a 15x15' space would cause a lock up. But as he matured, gained strength and muscle the actual locking disappeared and eventually he only had the occasional 'catch' if he spun round too sharply on that hindleg. He sired many foals for me, all of which had good strong back ends and none of them ever developed stifle problems - but then, as I said, I guess I was lucky.

So do what you can to help your little fella for the moment until you are able to consider the surgery that may be need to help your particular boy. Good luck!


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## Marsha Cassada (Sep 26, 2013)

I had a four year old mare for 4 months. She was fine! Then one morning she was dragging a hind leg. The next week, locking stifle. Sometimes it just comes out of the blue. At least with a gelding you know it won't go back into the gene pool...

Try putting a lead rope under the fetlock and raising his leg. This accustoms him to having his leg lifted and you are safe. Hold both ends of the rope and gently lift. Not too high at first, but work up.

Don't plan on the farrier teaching him to lift his feet; many farriers do not appreciate being a horse trainer at hoof trimming prices.

A silver lining to this, is you are learning a lot. Every horse has something to teach. Consider it equine education. No education is free.

If you are like me, I always want to fix everything. Some things cannot be fixed but must simply be managed.


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## Minimor (Sep 26, 2013)

Do you have reason to believe that this horse will kick if you touch his kneecap (stifle)? I'm not sure I believe there is any value in rubbing green Palmolive on the stifle but... The stifle should be a safe place to touch because you can stand by his shoulder and reach the stifle--even if he is prone to kicking he isnt likely to reach you if you are by his shoulder.

Is there a horse person you can get to come over and help you--show you how to properly handle his legs?


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## Marty (Sep 27, 2013)

I'd like to know the merit in the green Palmolive myself. Never heard of using it but who knows?

.

I really really really want you to call around and get some quotes from other vets that can do stifle surgery just for fun. I think $500 is completely outrageous.

Does anyone think MSM would help anything? Or any glucosemine type stuff?


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## AnnaC (Sep 27, 2013)

That's a good thought Marty - MSM might just help things, certainly worth a try.


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## freedomnjustice (Sep 27, 2013)

Minimor, I was kicked by the bigger horse when we first got them. Totally my fault, and I know now what I did wrong. I'm not sure about the Palmolive either--she said she had heard of it from other people and thought it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. What are the drawbacks of having this surgery done? How much recovery is involved? I've read that the horse must always lie down to sleep if their tendon is cut. Does that make it more vulnerable to a predator or anything?

I do feel more comfortable around the horses now except for when it comes to touching their legs/feet. He seems a little better but I think it's more he's learning how to walk with his leg straight..not better by bending his leg. I'm going to work with him some this weekend with stepping over soemthing to see if it will encourage him to bend his leg. I will also work with walking him in through the pasture (only straight lines, I know). He's fighting me hard with back up. When I can get him to move, he's not bending his leg at all. I don't want to push the issue too much and potentially injure him more. He's currently on 1/2 tab of bute for 5 days to see if the anti-inflammatory property will aid in allowing that to unlock. Hopefully something will improve with him, but it's been almost a week now.

The bigger horse is doing wonderful. No laminitis issues and he looks beautiful. We are thinking of gelding them soon, but we have to finish our barn and buy hay first. Our supply is getting pretty low....

Thanks everyone-just wanted to update!


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## Marsha Cassada (Sep 27, 2013)

AnnaC said:


> That's a good thought Marty - MSM might just help things, certainly worth a try.


That would have nothing to do with the tendon problem, or for muscles. It is for joints. My understanding of the stifle issue is it slips out of place. Nothing to do with joints.

And glucosamine could exacerbate the laminitis.

jmo


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## ForeverFarma (Sep 27, 2013)

My gelding had both of his cut and I have not noticed him lying down to sleep anymore so than a cat nap in the sun. He can get down on that leg and get up just fine. He was back to work 2 weeks after surgery- the quicker you get them moving, the faster they heal. Ask you vet about blistering as opposed to having it cut- we originally blistered his and it was $90 per leg plus sedation. He went back to work that afternoon...the surgery for both stifle to be cut was right at $600, and I really wish I had skipped blistering him and went right on to having him cut.


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