# ASPC/AMHR vs. AMHA/AMHR??



## MDMminis (Oct 2, 2008)

Ok I have a couple of questions. In order to show AMHR over the horse has to be 34"-38", but in order to really have a chance an ASPC horses should atleast be 38" (not required i know, just sorta a reference). I was wondering, can you show both ASPC and AMHR shows with 1 miniature? Or you can only show In one or the other registry per horse? Also would the 38" size really effect the horse in the AMHR over ring? I know the smaller the better they say, just wondering? If you were to show a big miniature in over, do you have less chances of winning because the miniature is so big? Or just a level playing field either way. Would it be same as far as APSC? If the shetland is only 38" does he have less chance showing with bigger shetlands in the under divison?? Just some things I'm considering. I know a AMHA/AMHR can show in both and of course has to be an under (34" and smaller) horse, so It would not really matter size-wise. I'm just Interested in learning more about the AMHR/ASPC horses.


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## muffntuf (Oct 2, 2008)

At a sanctioned show - you have to choose whether you are showing ASPC or AMHR in that show. Then the next show you can choose to do the opposite. You can however go to Congress and show under the ASPC papers, and if you qualified as an AMHR, then you can show at Nationals with the AMHR papers.

IMHO - a 38" pony has just as much chance of placing as a Under 42" pony. There are height divisions at Congress and sometimes a local shows.

Hope that helps!


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## MDMminis (Oct 2, 2008)

muffntuf said:


> At a sanctioned show - you have to choose whether you are showing ASPC or AMHR in that show. Then the next show you can choose to do the opposite. You can however go to Congress and show under the ASPC papers, and if you qualified as an AMHR, then you can show at Nationals with the AMHR papers.
> IMHO - a 38" pony has just as much chance of placing as a Under 42" pony. There are height divisions at Congress and sometimes a local shows.
> 
> Hope that helps!


Thanks It does



. I'm just wondering as I'd like to show both, but AMHR you can not go over 38". But I still want a height that would have a chance in the ASPC shows as well. That way I could show both registries If I decided. Instead of having to go AMHA/AMHR to show 2 registries. Thank you!


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## Leeana (Oct 2, 2008)

If you have an AMHR/ASPC horse...you can only show it amhr or aspc at one show..you cannot go to say ashland and show it in shetland and miniature classes. But you can show the horse miniature one week at a show, then shetland the following week at a different show. Just have to pick what to show him at, at that show.

Actually, have the largest horse in the class gives you the advantage...you do not see 35" horses winning the over grand division at nationals, nor do you see 28" horses winning the under grand. Well...you could find that...but that smaller horse can be at a slight disadvantage. I prefer to stay away from the 35-36" height an the 28-31" height..the bigger horse is most likely to have more leg/neck ext...

In the under shetland division...yes its going to be harder for a 35" pony to be competitive agianst a 42" pony...but those smaller ponys win. Look at Rock E Mr Mitz, he went Grand under at congress and grand over at Nationals. Erica's gelding Jesse James went res grand at congress and he is only like 36-37 i think? Wallstreet has allot of (most double reg.) shetlands that are smaller especially and they do really well in the shetland ring..


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## MDMminis (Oct 2, 2008)

Leeana said:


> If you have an AMHR/ASPC horse...you can only show it amhr or aspc at one show..you cannot go to say ashland and show it in shetland and miniature classes. But you can show the horse miniature one week at a show, then shetland the following week at a different show. Just have to pick what to show him at, at that show.
> Actually, have the largest horse in the class gives you the advantage...you do not see 35" horses winning the over grand division at nationals, nor do you see 28" horses winning the under grand. Well...you could find that...but that smaller horse can be at a slight disadvantage. I prefer to stay away from the 35-36" height an the 28-31" height..the bigger horse is most likely to have more leg/neck ext...
> 
> In the under shetland division...yes its going to be harder for a 35" pony to be competitive agianst a 42" pony...but those smaller ponys win. Look at Rock E Mr Mitz, he went Grand under at congress and grand over at Nationals. Erica's gelding Jesse James went res grand at congress and he is only like 36-37 i think? Wallstreet has allot of (most double reg.) shetlands that are smaller especially and they do really well in the shetland ring..


I knew you would post some kind of advice



. I wasn't planning to try showing both at one show. But I was not sure It applied like AMHA/AMHR. You were not limited to showing in one or the other registry per horse. Thanks for your guys help


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## Leeana (Oct 2, 2008)

MDMminis said:


> Leeana said:
> 
> 
> > If you have an AMHR/ASPC horse...you can only show it amhr or aspc at one show..you cannot go to say ashland and show it in shetland and miniature classes. But you can show the horse miniature one week at a show, then shetland the following week at a different show. Just have to pick what to show him at, at that show.
> ...


No....next year for example im going to show Royal (amhr/aspc) just R just enough to qualify him for Nationals..then i'll show him foundation the rest of the year and at congress. Just an example..


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## kaykay (Oct 2, 2008)

Hopefully angie foy will pop in. 2 years ago at congress her horse won congress champion and he was very very small/short and just outstanding i must say


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## MDMminis (Oct 2, 2008)

kaykay said:


> Hopefully angie foy will pop in. 2 years ago at congress her horse won congress champion and he was very very small/short and just outstanding i must say


Well I'll be leasing a 36" ASPC/AMHR gelding for 2009 show season and was told that he would not be a competive choice to show in ASPC shows. So I figured I would look for a miniature around 38", or 37" at the smallest?


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## Lisa Strass (Oct 2, 2008)

A couple of things to keep in mind - that 38" Mini may be a 39 or 39.5" Shetland due to the fact that they are measured differently. And yes, there are horses that win in both the mini division and the Shetland division, and most of them are very close to that 38" mini measurement. Personally, I find showing the 38" mini a little nerve-wracking!





As long as the Shetland shows offer Under and Over divisions, the smaller Shetlands do fine in their division. However, a lot of the local shows don't split the Shetland classes, and the 38" Mini / 39" Shetland does have a hard time competing against the 44" Shetlands.



Leeana said:


> Wallstreet has allot of (most double reg.) shetlands that are smaller especially and they do really well in the shetland ring..


While Wall Street does have a lot of the smaller Shetlands, almost all of the double registered ones were hardshipped by their new owners.


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## MDMminis (Oct 2, 2008)

Lisa Strass said:


> A couple of things to keep in mind - that 38" Mini may be a 39 or 39.5" Shetland due to the fact that they are measured differently. And yes, there are horses that win in both the mini division and the Shetland division, and most of them are very close to that 38" mini measurement. Personally, I find showing the 38" mini a little nerve-wracking!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol, yes I've been told that Shetlands in general can be nerve wracking to show. So I'm still considering it, I may just stick to showing the bigger AMHR miniatures



. I'll have to double check but I think our Area || shows are split, but I'm not certain. As 2009 will be my first time showing miniatures


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## disneyhorse (Oct 2, 2008)

Honestly... I think that instead of focusing on SIZE you really should try hard to focus on QUALITY. Despite the feeling that "judges will only place the taller animals, and the animals should be close to the top of the size bracket to be truly competitive" I think that judges actually ARE picking the quality animals regardless of size. It just so coincidentally happens that taller animals are blessed with better PROPORTION in most but NOT all cases.

I know of a little 36" stallion who is AMHR/ASPC named "BHR-JC's Geshan)... he was National Grand Champion stallion in AMHR... and when he went to the ASPC shows he was generally Grand Champion there, too, as a Classic. Not sure he ever went to Congress... but a quality horse is competitive nonethless. I saw plenty of little AMHR registered horses doing just fine at Congress AND Nationals!

So, focusing on QUALITY should be your main goal. You don't want a 38" animal that you have to sweat measuring in or growing out of size, I'm sure. If needed, seek the advice of someone who stands top in both registry divisions to help you evaluate your possible show prospects.

Good luck,

Andrea


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## MDMminis (Oct 2, 2008)

I don't plan on throwing conformation on the window for size, just wondered how much the height is considered. I know shetland/miniatures are mainly wrapped around size. Atleast AMHA is, but I know the smaller you get some times you run in to conformation problems. Or sometimes you get a really nice small miniature. Just wasn't sure if AMHR/ASPC shows mattered much as far as the size to win. Thanks


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## Leeana (Oct 2, 2008)

disneyhorse said:


> Honestly... I think that instead of focusing on SIZE you really should try hard to focus on QUALITY. Despite the feeling that "judges will only place the taller animals, and the animals should be close to the top of the size bracket to be truly competitive" I think that judges actually ARE picking the quality animals regardless of size. It just so coincidentally happens that taller animals are blessed with better PROPORTION in most but NOT all cases.
> I know of a little 36" stallion who is AMHR/ASPC named "BHR-JC's Geshan)... he was National Grand Champion stallion in AMHR... and when he went to the ASPC shows he was generally Grand Champion there, too, as a Classic. Not sure he ever went to Congress... but a quality horse is competitive nonethless. I saw plenty of little AMHR registered horses doing just fine at Congress AND Nationals!
> 
> So, focusing on QUALITY should be your main goal. You don't want a 38" animal that you have to sweat measuring in or growing out of size, I'm sure. If needed, seek the advice of someone who stands top in both registry divisions to help you evaluate your possible show prospects.
> ...


Exactly Andrea, exactly....i actually think that is where allot of people go wrong trying to keep their horse (speaking for minis) the biggest in the class...you end up with them sometimes taking that risk of measuring 34.5" and ending up having to show in the over division or 38.5" and loosing some papers.

Of course quality comes first..nothing wrong with having a height preference..i like the 32-34" height range on my minis and 40-45" for my shetlands. Everyone has personal preferences, height being one of them. I dont feel shetlands are as much wrapped up in height as the minis...when shetlands go over 46" they dont loose their papers like the minis, but of course i think we all have our preferences in height with them too and where we want them.


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## MDMminis (Oct 2, 2008)

I agree for the longest time I had the love for 28-31" miniatures



. But now considering a lot of dwarf problems crowding over the really small miniatures, I've been getting more attached to the bigger miniatures. I just like the fact that a 37-38" miniature would give you like a more secure lift In the showing world. Being as I'm new I may just need the size to back up my lack of showing experience



. That and I would have more of an option going both ASPC and AMHR as far as showing. But If not I'd settle for a nice looking 32-33" miniature. Size doesn't bother me as much as the worry of conformation



.


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## dannigirl (Oct 3, 2008)

In 2007, we had a 36" mini that went grand champion Foundation stallion at Congress. He was also only a yearling at the time which made it more exciting. This year he showed and placed 4th--I think. We no longer own him, so am not sure. Whether the smaller shetlands place against the larger ones really depends on the judges. Conformation is, of course, important, but some smaller ponies just can't compete with some of the larger ones. Actually, the same is true for miniatures. It really depends on the judge for that show.

All that being said, we show our over minis as ponies also. We don't show any ponies that are also under minis because we feel that they will get lost against the larger ponies. We do have some that are that small. In most cases, we have to really be careful to get our over minis qualified for nationals because we tend to show them more as ponies at local shows.





Oh, and thanks Kay--We are really proud of him.


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## MDMminis (Oct 3, 2008)

Yeah I get that point of view, but I hear shetlands can be a very larger role as far as showing, than a miniature would be. So I might just stick to my big miniatures .


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