# Announcement this AM



## Laura (Oct 19, 2008)

I have so much respect for this man. I was thrilled to see the announcement


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## loveminis (Oct 19, 2008)

Agreed Laura, but Mary Lou posted this also, what happened to it ?


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## Laura (Oct 19, 2008)

Hmmm, I knew I was super late getting on this morning and was surprised to see no post on the subject. I wonder what happened??


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## Buckskin gal (Oct 19, 2008)

I think Colin Powell is a wise and respected man who really gave thought to his choice and done what was right regardless of his political choice of being a Republican. I truly admire someone who puts a lot of thought into making choices rather than glue themselves to one party for their thinking and making choices.


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 19, 2008)

Colin Powell is a man I have a lot of respect for, too, so his endorsement makes me happy, really means something.


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## Bassett (Oct 19, 2008)

To me endorsements don't mean too much. I still make my own decisions. I like Oprah, but I would not vote for Obama JUST because she endorsed him. If I got up and said I endorse a person everyone would say. Who is she? It is a name only. Doesn't mean much to most people. And I would say the same if he endorsed McCain. Same as polls. One poll this morning had Obama way ahead. Small print on the bottom. Wow, they polled less than 1000 people. Nice poll.






Didn't believe a words of it. But that is just me.


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 19, 2008)

Bassett, that's how polls work. They'll talk to a sample group, it could be 10, 100, 1000 people. They do try to match the demographics of the poll to the demographics of the nation at large, though, to help the poll become an accurate reflection of the national opinion.


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## wildoak (Oct 19, 2008)

I have a lot of respect for Colin Powell, and wish he had run for president. I don't agree with his endorsement, but I know he has put a lot of intelligent thought into this.

Jan


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## susanne (Oct 20, 2008)

I place little to no importance on Oprah's opinion, other than perhaps who makes a great talk show guest -- in other words, her background in world or national affairs hardly makes her endorsement of political candidates worth considering.

On the other hand, I place much more importance on who an expert in foreign affairs or economics endorses. The endorsements of Colin Powell, Warren Buffet and Bill Richardson all help to confirm my decision.

I don't expect that this would change anyone's mind, but since we are judging candidates by the company they keep, this is most definitely worth noting.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

Thing is Powell has to be careful as to what he says about Obama. Powell cannot talk about Palins inexperience because he won't want to bring attention to Obama's LACK of experience................... One could be the president & the other the VP. Which seat would you rather have the inexperienced person sitting in?

I wonder if that is why Powell said he didn't want to go out & stump for Obama - not enough material to talk about and too limited on what he can say about Obama's experience!


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## Laura (Oct 20, 2008)

susanne said:


> I place little to no importance on Oprah's opinion, other than perhaps who makes a great talk show guest -- in other words, her background in world or national affairs hardly makes her endorsement of political candidates worth considering.
> On the other hand, I place much more importance on who an expert in foreign affairs or economics endorses. The endorsements of Colin Powell, Warren Buffet and Bill Richardson all help to confirm my decision.
> 
> I don't expect that this would change anyone's mind, but since we are judging candidates by the company they keep, this is most definitely worth noting.


I agree completely. I expected Powell to endore McCain, I just never thought he would endorse a Democrat. I'm thrilled he has endorsed Obama.


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## Laura (Oct 20, 2008)

Cathy_H said:


> Thing is Powell has to be careful as to what he says about Obama. Powell cannot talk about Palins inexperience because he won't want to bring attention to Obama's LACK of experience................... One could be the president & the other the VP. Which seat would you rather have the inexperienced person sitting in?
> I wonder if that is why Powell said he didn't want to go out & stump for Obama - not enough material to talk about and too limited on what he can say about Obama's experience!


I thought he was quite through about his reasons for endorsing Obama and not endorsing McCain, blunt in fact about it. It left no doubt in my mind why he made this choice.

*************************************

Powell spoke to reporters afterward outside NBC.

The following is a transcript of that conversation.

Reporter: Do you think that Sen. Obama will be a better transitional president than potentially Sen. McCain?

Colin Powell: I think that Sen. Obama brings a fresh set of of eyes, a fresh set of ideas to the table. I think that Sen. McCain, as gifted as he is, is essentially going to execute the Republican agenda, the orthodoxy of the Republican agenda with a new face and with a maverick approach to it. And he'd be quite good at it. But I think we need more than that. I think we need a generational change. And I think Sen. Obama has captured the feelings of the young people of America and is reaching out in a more diverse, inclusive way across our society. Watch Powell tell why he supports Obama »

Reporter: Could you talk to us about when your decision was made final? When did you finally set your heart on Sen. Obama?

Powell: I have been watching, as I said [on "Meet the Press"], for a long time, and then, within the past couple of months, I really said, you know, you just can't keep watching. You've got to kind of settle down.

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And frankly, it was in the period leading up to the conventions, and then the decisions that came out of the conventions, and then just sort of watching the responses of the two individuals on the economic crisis. It gave me an opportunity to evaluate their judgment, to evaluate their way of approaching a problem, to evaluate the steadiness of their actions. And it was at that point that I realized that, to my mind, anyway, that Sen. Obama has demonstrated the kind of calm, patient, intellectual, steady approach to problem-solving that I think we need in this country.

Reporter: Mr. Secretary, there were a number of chinks in your own armor, actually, because of the lead-up to the Iraq war and the events. How much did that play into your decision about this? And will it be taken perhaps by some, because of your previous high-profile position, won't it be taken by some as a repudiation of the Iraq war?

Powell: I don't know why. The Iraq war is the Iraq war. We now see that things are a lot better in Iraq. Maybe if we had put a surge in at the beginning, it would have been a lot better years ago, but it's a lot better now, and we can see ahead to where U.S. forces will start to come out. And so, my concern was not my past or what happened in Iraq, but where we're going in the future. My sole concern was where are we going after January 20 of 2009, not what happened in 2003.

I'm well aware of the role I played. My role has been very, very straightforward. I wanted to avoid a war. The president agreed with me. We tried to do that. We couldn't get it through the U.N. and when the president made the decision, I supported that decision. And I've never blinked from that. I've never said I didn't support a decision to go to war.

And the war looked great until the 9th of April, when the statue fell, everybody thought it was terrific. And it was terrific. The troops had done a great job. But then we failed to understand that the war really was not over, that a new phase of the war was beginning. And we weren't ready for it and we didn't respond to it well enough, and things went very, very -- very, very south, very bad.

And now it's starting to turn around through the work of Gen. Petraeus and the troops, through the work of the Iraqi government, through our diplomatic efforts, and I hope now that this war will be brought to an end, at least as far as American involvement is concerned, and the Iraqis are going to have to be responsible for their own security and for their own political future. ...

Reporter: Sir, what part did McCain's negativity play in your decision, the negative tone of the campaign?

Powell: It troubled me. We have two wars. We have economic problems. We have health problems. We have education problems. We have infrastructure problems. We have problems around the world with our allies. So those are the problems the American people wanted to hear about, not about Mr. Ayers, not about who's a Muslim or who's not a Muslim. Those kinds of images going out on Al-Jazeera are killing us around the world.

And we have got to say to the world, it doesn't make any difference who you are or what you are, if you're an American, you're an American. And this business, for example, of the congressman from Minnesota who's going around saying, "Let's examine all congressmen to see who is pro-America or not pro-America" -- we have got to stop this kind of nonsense, pull ourselves together and remember that our great strength is in our unity and in our diversity. And so, that really was driving me.

And to focus on people like Mr. Ayers and these trivial issues, for the purpose of suggesting that somehow Mr. Obama would have some kind of terrorist inclinations, I thought that was over the top. It was beyond just good political fighting back and forth. I think it went beyond. And to sort of throw in this little Muslim connection, you know, "He's a Muslim and, my goodness, he's a terrorist" -- it was taking root. And we can't judge our people and we can't hold our elections on that kind of basis.

So, yes, that kind of negativity troubled me, And the constant shifting of the argument. I was troubled a couple of weeks ago when in the middle of the crisis, the [McCain] campaign said, "We're going to go negative," and they announced it, "We're going to go negative and attack [Obama's] character through Bill Ayers." Now I guess the message this week is, "We're going to call him a socialist, Mr. Obama is now a socialist, because he dares to suggest that maybe we ought to look at the tax structure that we have."

Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who paid them, in roads and airports and hospitals and schools. And taxes are necessary for the common good. And there is nothing wrong with examining what our tax structure is or who should be paying more, who should be paying less. And for us to say that that makes you a socialist, I think is an unfortunate characterization that isn't accurate.

I don't want my taxes raised. I don't want anybody else's taxes raised. But I also want to see our infrastructure fixed. I don't want to have a $12 trillion national debt, and I don't want to see an annual deficit that's over $500 billion heading toward a trillion. So, how do we deal with all of this?

Reporter: Are you still a Republican?

Powell: Yes.

Reporter: Have you conveyed your decision to Sen. Obama?

Powell: Calls are being made. Thank you


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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

> I thought he was quite through about his reasons for endorsing Obama


I'm referencing EXPERIENCE. Where does he say Obama is experienced?



> a fresh set of of eyes, a fresh set of ideas to the table


 - Definately no experience in a fresh set of eyes. 



> Obama has demonstrated the kind of calm, patient, intellectual, steady approach to problem-solving that I think we need in this country


 - - No experience mentioned in all of that either.



> I think we need a generational change


 - A younger person does not have the experience as an older person either.
Could Powell have been avoiding that word - EXPERIENCE?


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## Irish Hills Farm (Oct 20, 2008)

Cathy_H said:


> I thought he was quite through about his reasons for endorsing Obama I'm referencing EXPERIENCE. Where does he say Obama is experienced?


* He says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about OBAMA'a experience because Obama has NONE!!!*

As was mentioned on FOX News earlier, Powell is of the generation that went through the civil rights period. How could he NOT endorse a muslim man who is half black?


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 20, 2008)

Irish Hills Farm said:


> Cathy_H said:
> 
> 
> > I thought he was quite through about his reasons for endorsing Obama I'm referencing EXPERIENCE. Where does he say Obama is experienced?
> ...


Are you serious? Please tell me you're joking.


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## Irish Hills Farm (Oct 20, 2008)

No, I'm not joking and I wish I would've wrote down the name of the black news reporter who stated that.


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 20, 2008)




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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

> I think we need a generational change.


Speaking of which Obama says "we're going to change the world".

WHY are we going to change the world and in what way? 

Share our wealth with the rest of the world & continue to give our jobs to them as well?

Open the doors & let his other terrorist buddies in?

Put his cronies in places of power to change our laws & take away more of our freedoms?

*Some of the World does NOT WANT TO BE CHANGED!* So is Obama going to force them to change? If so in what way & how is that going to change foreign relations? Another war?

Keep in mind when things change in the rest of the world sometimes it makes things worse here in AMERICA!

* Shouldn't Obama be more concerned right now about America instead of the world!* Change is NOT always good!

What he is NOT saying carries as much impact as what he is saying! And we have seen he is NOT saying a lot on several things!


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 20, 2008)

Cathy_H said:


> *Some of the World does NOT WANT TO BE CHANGED!*


Kind of like us being told we'd be welcomed as liberators, when we were not?

Obama's positions are online for everyone to look at. If you want to know what he plans to change you can go read up on his plans and policies. The only reason that people don't 'know' Obama is that they've chosen not to do their research, but rely instead on forwarded e-mails and fear.


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## whitney (Oct 20, 2008)

Colin Powell knows more than you or I about the workings of government. I respect his opinion.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

> Obama has demonstrated the kind of calm, patient, intellectual, steady approach to problem-solving that I think we need in this country


Evidently Powell has not heard Obama say "we're going to change the world".

How is Obama going to change the world in 4 years? To make such a huge change in such a short period of time you have to take immediate & drastic measures!



> Steady approach to problem solving


- NOT in 4 short years!




> The only reason that people don't 'know' Obama is that they've chosen not to do their research, but rely instead on forwarded e-mails and fear.


. Actually I just delete MOST of those AND I have done research -lots of it! The reason that people don't "know" Obama is because we don't trust him based on previous events, etc.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

> Colin Powell knows more than you or I about the workings of government


And I recently told Lee that I could vote for Colin Powell and that has not changed.

Powell only knows what he has been told about Obama and he most likely has not been told all that he needs to know - (like the rest of us)! Time will tell!


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 20, 2008)

Cathy, so you're saying:

A) Colin Powell is incapable of, or unwilling to do his own research,

B) Relies on whatever his people tell him,

and C) that you'd still be willing to vote for him?


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## bingo (Oct 20, 2008)

WOW


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 20, 2008)

And I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent here, because I'm tired and hopped up on cold medicine (Thank you, flu bug) and annoyed.

I am SICK of people saying Muslim as though it's a bad thing or an insult. Obama is not a Muslim, but SO WHAT IF HE WAS? What is wrong with enjoying your VERY AMERICAN RIGHT to freedom of religion? Are we at war with Muslims? If so, why are we wasting so much time and money overseas when we have plenty of Muslims posing such a clear and present danger right here on our own soil?

Furthermore, I'm sick of seeing 'liberal' used as if it's a dirty word. The same with intellectual. I know not everyone agrees with liberals, but I wasn't aware it was such a horrible thing to be an INTELLECTUAL. I want anyone in office to be MUCH more intelligent than the average American.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 20, 2008)

> that you'd still be willing to vote for him


Well I deleted part of my comment as I didn't want to offend people but here it is.

We were discussing some people not wanting to vote for a black presidential candidate.

So I told Lee " even though Colin Powell is black, I could vote for him or Rice if I felt they were the most qualified".

Making a point that I am open minded and try not to be a racist.



> and that has not changed.


 - I would vote for Powell during this election but it could change down the road depending upon what his future actions are.



> Colin Powell is incapable of, or unwilling to do his own research


Too many questions in Obama's background that his inter circle manipulators will not reveal - even to Powell.


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## Irish Hills Farm (Oct 20, 2008)

bingo said:


> Irish Hills Farm said:
> 
> 
> > Cathy_H said:
> ...



Lisa, I did NOT say I felt Powell was endorsing Barack do to Baracks color. I simply paraphrased what a reporter said.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

A week or so ago one of the polls (that everyone is so impressed with) said that 98% of blacks supported Obama. Considering that percentage my question is "who are the racists?"

And please don't come back and say then X% of whites must be supporting McCain. With 98% of the black vote taken....that's the majority of what's left.


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 20, 2008)

It's interesting how you conclude that blacks are racist because the majority of them are supporting Obama. I'm having trouble finding the number you posted, so a source would be great.

Now, if I remember my demographics, I seem to recall that the majority of African-Americans consider themselves to be more liberal than conservative. If that is true, is it so shocking that they are leaning toward the liberal candidate?


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## hobbyhorse23 (Oct 20, 2008)

Interestingly enough, McCain has no experience being president either!



To me that makes them pretty even.



Cathy_H said:


> > Obama has demonstrated the kind of calm, patient, intellectual, steady approach to problem-solving that I think we need in this country
> 
> 
> Evidently Powell has not heard Obama say "we're going to change the world".
> ...


So what is any candidate supposed to do then? Nothing? Not even try? After all, they're only in there four short years!



Let's just keep going the way we have been. It's not like Bush did any damage in his two terms.







Cathy_H said:


> > The only reason that people don't 'know' Obama is that they've chosen not to do their research, but rely instead on forwarded e-mails and fear.
> 
> 
> . Actually I just delete MOST of those AND I have done research -lots of it! The reason that people don't "know" Obama is because we don't trust him based on previous events, etc.


Wait, you mean based on...experience?







LowriseMinis said:


> And I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent here, because I'm tired and hopped up on cold medicine (Thank you, flu bug) and annoyed.
> *I am SICK of people saying Muslim as though it's a bad thing or an insult. Obama is not a Muslim, but SO WHAT IF HE WAS?* What is wrong with enjoying your VERY AMERICAN RIGHT to freedom of religion? Are we at war with Muslims? If so, why are we wasting so much time and money overseas when we have plenty of Muslims posing such a clear and present danger right here on our own soil?
> 
> Furthermore, I'm sick of seeing 'liberal' used as if it's a dirty word. The same with intellectual. I know not everyone agrees with liberals, but I wasn't aware it was such a horrible thing to be an INTELLECTUAL. I want anyone in office to be MUCH more intelligent than the average American.

















I'm so glad someone said it. People freaked out that Kennedy was Catholic too...and at least he actually WAS! *LOL*

I think one of the saddest statements on current American culture is those McDonald's commericials about how McDonald's iced lattes free the individual from their "pretensions" of "snobby intellectualism" so they could go back to gossip magazines and reality TV. I know it's satirical, but it's the fact that it makes people laugh and want to buy the product that worries me so much!



How is it _attractive_ to dumb people down?? And we actually find that desirable?! Yes, instead of giving everyone an opportunity to educate themselves and admiring those who do so, let's make us all equal by dumbing everyone down!



We could burn some books while we're at it.





Uhhh....



Wait a minute.

Sorry, I think that tangent must be contagious!



Done now.

Leia


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## Bassett (Oct 20, 2008)

> I want anyone in office to be MUCH more intelligent than the average American.


And who would that be? Obama has an IQ of 130. Mine is 128. My sons is 138, I believe. That makes one of us almost on Obamas level, one of us more intelligent. That does not make us eligible for President. Does that make Obama eligible for President? I think not. Jill's is much higher than Obamas. I think she would be good in politics, but President material. I don't know. She would have to prove it to me.






Just being more intelligent than the average American does not make a President. You have to have some Common Sense and as we just read in another post Common Sense died some time ago.





Sorry edited to add I just did a search and asked what Obamas IQ was and found 116 and for McCain 133. Just plain typed in the questions on what their IQS were. Each done separately. I guess I was wrong on Obamas. Maybe he isn't QUITE as smart as I thought he was.


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## kaykay (Oct 20, 2008)

Hmm where did you 116?? I saw that on one site but it was a spoof of Obama. I looked and here is what I found. None of the sites I saw listed his real IQ. they were all estimates.

This is from Wiki

He has not released that information. From the information available:

* The average IQ for a college graduate with a bachelor's degree in the U.S. is 115.

Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School.

* Obama's IQ has been guesstimated as 1) lower than 140-165 and 2) between 140-165, possibly higher. The IQ value is estimated against his achievements as a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as editor, and later as president of the Harvard Law Review; which is an extremely prestigious position. Obama also taught at the University of Chicago for over 10 years, a top-ranked university in the United States.

* Obama attended an elite private school in Honolulu as a scholarship student. He had previously been in school in Indonesia, so his scholarship was almost certainly not based on marks, but on extremely high entrance exam scor


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Lowrise I don't have a source for you (so it's obviously not true). It's something I saw on TV a week or so ago.

As far as the term "liberal" is concerned, you're right it's not a dirty word. That term doesn't fit Obama anyway. Socialist is much more appropriate.

As far as IQs are concerned I've met more people than I like to think of who had high IQs but weren't smart enough to come in out of the rain. Give me good old common sense anyday. It, like experience, frequently come in handy.


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## OhHorsePee (Oct 20, 2008)

And I say that even the highest of all IQ's aren't worth a plumb nickel if a person doesn't have common sence and wisdom. Wisdom comes with experience. Common sence you either have or you don't. Sorry, as much as I like Powell, it still has not changed where my vote will go.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Looks like we aren't the only ones concerned about national security. Check this out -----

"SEATTLE, WA — Joe Biden says he’s certain that if Barack Obama is elected president, there will be an international crisis to test his strength within the first 6 months of his presidency."

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/20...-with-a-crisis/


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## OhHorsePee (Oct 20, 2008)

Donna I just made a thread over this. LOL Had to LMAO!


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Cathy started one too Fran. Must be one of those great minds things, huh? LOL


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## tagalong (Oct 20, 2008)

And so now the discussion dissolves into _Neener Neener I'm Smarter Then You Are Neener Neener_...







> A week or so ago one of the polls (that everyone is so impressed with) said that 98% of blacks supported Obama. Considering that percentage my question is "who are the racists?"


Maybe that is just the way they wish to vote... like those who vote by party lines without caring who the actual candidate is or what any of the issues are. And polls are just based on samplings, anyway....



> Evidently Powell has not heard Obama say "we're going to change the world".How is Obama going to change the world in 4 years? To make such a huge change in such a short period of time you have to take immediate & drastic measures!


He did not specifify _a time line_. Where was a time line ever indicated?

Who knew it was wrong to want change - or to even hope for it. Whoever is elected is not going to get a lot of anything about the mess we are in changed in 4 years... but they will take the steps to start those changes.

Colin Powell is a wise man - and not just because of his support for Obama....


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## kaykay (Oct 20, 2008)

I could care less what someones IQ is was just wondering where she got that number?

Apparently its not good to have a high IQ or a low IQ LOL.

Fran that got posted like 3 times lmao.

Honestly these posts are getting so silly I dont think I can bare to read many more of them.

I love to discuss issues (especially with other women) but this is just one of those things that cannot be discussed without going down the gutter or just getting ridiculous.

Im one of those people on the fence, but just cant find anyone you can actually discuss this stuff with without them going over the edge for Obama or McCain. I just dont get why we cant all admit that there is good and bad about both canidates


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## OhHorsePee (Oct 20, 2008)

LOL I know, isn't that funny! I simply cannit believe he said that! Did anyone leave me a reply??? sniffle sniffle


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Kay I'll gladly be the 2nd to say there is good and bad with both candidates. Nobody is going to agree 100% with anyone. We each have to determine who we agree with more.

Tag - give me a break. I guess you're going to say it's just a coincidence?


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## Bassett (Oct 20, 2008)

kaykay said:


> Hmm where did you 116?? I saw that on one site but it was a spoof of Obama. I looked and here is what I found. None of the sites I saw listed his real IQ. they were all estimates.
> This is from Wiki
> 
> He has not released that information. From the information available:
> ...



You have to read the whole thing. Yes all of it. Had Obama released his records we would know for sure. Wouldn't we? BUT seeing he is trying to hide everything it has to be figured this way. My point in posting this is someone wants a President MUCH more intelligent than the average person. We have a lot of very intelligent persons who are not President material.

<H2 class=date-header>Thursday, September 18, 2008</H2><H3 class=post-title>Barack Obama's IQ is ~116 </H3>An IQ guy <A href="http://www.kids-iq-tests.com/d-prez.html">attempts to work it out:

[T]hese are the facts concerning Obama's LSAT score while attending Law School at Harvard University. We do not know his actual LSAT score; however, after much research, we found that the average LSAT score for all Harvard students is 171. The percentile rank for an LSAT score of 171 at Harvard is 98.8 %.
 
MENSA will accept LSAT scores as a means of qualifying for MENSA membership. (MENSA also accepts up to 200 various IQ tests and other tests of cognitive function as well.) The LSAT score required for MENSA membership is equal to a percentile of 95% or higher. Thus, basing Obama's estimated LSAT score of 171 ranks him in the top 98.8% (percent/percentile) range which is clearly above the lowest acceptable LSAT percentage rank of 95%, which clearly affirms that Obama has a qualifying intelligence quotient that would allow him acceptance into MENSA.
 
Since MENSA accepts various IQ Tests as well as other cognitive tests to qualify for MENSA membership it is safe to estimate that Obama's IQ Score could range anywhere from a low IQ score of 130 based on the Stanford Binet IQ Test, Revision 5, to a high IQ score of 148 based on the Cattell IQ Test.

What the IQ guy failed to account for is the fact that Harvard University practices affirmative action. PBS Frontline reports: _"The gap in SAT scores persists even at the highest levels of achievement. A study of the 1989 applicants to five highly-selective universities found that white candidates' average combined SAT score was 186 points higher than the corresponding SAT average for African American applicants."_

Furthermore, the New York Times reports that _"At the best schools, by contrast, efforts to diversify the student body translate into a 400-point bonus for minority students on the SAT tests."_

That 98.8 ranking based on the average Harvard LSAT translates to about a 135 IQ and a combined SAT score of 1290. That's pretty good, if not spectacular. However, due to affirmative action, one must reduce that score by at least 186 points. (Also, I suspect the NYT article is talking about the new SAT, which isn't valid for the purposes of this comparison.) Thus, giving Obama the benefit of the doubt drops his score to 1104, which is approximately equivalent to an IQ of 116. That's not bad, but it is significantly less intelligent than Hillary's 140 IQ, as well as being lower than George W. Bush's 125 IQ (1206 SAT).

Before one points to the fact that Obama ranked highly in his class, it's important to keep in mind that Bill Bradley was a Princeton Rhodes Scholar despite his 485 Verbal SAT and mediocre 103 IQ. Academic success, like every other kind of success, is just as much about hard work and determination as it is about intellectual firepower, but Barack Obama's supporters obviously shouldn't be attempting to make their case for him on the basis of what is, based on the available information, probably an IQ of 116, only one standard deviation above the norm. Of course, this estimate is based on averages which don't necessarily apply to a single individual; Obama could lay the matter to rest by simply permitting his scores to be released to the public.

If his intelligence is so incredibly important, as some of his more visibly insane supporters insist, then surely the senator should inform us precisely how intelligent he is. Because he demonstrates his ignorance and a less-than-impressive intelligence nearly every time he opens his mouth despite his handlers attempts to retroactively fix his statements: _"The fact that we have reached a point where the Federal Reserve felt it had to take this unprecedented step with the American Insurance Group is the final verdict on the failed economic philosophy of the last eight years."_

First, AIG didn't fail because of the economic philosophy of the last eight years. The Fed began goosing the markets under Clinton. Second, that "unprecedented step" was taken


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## Pepipony (Oct 20, 2008)

Bassett , I would like to see complete records as well. However, Bush set a precident, he had his files hidden. We really knew nothing other than what he said. Guess everyone else has that right now as well. Did McCain release all of his or didnt they just set up a place where a few Drs were given 2 hours to poor over thousands of pages of documents?

Actually, the fed began messing with market stuff back in '82. But they were getting more into it with each decade it seems.


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## kaykay (Oct 20, 2008)

But see that is what makes me crazy. You did not put on your post that that was an ESTIMATE of his IQ.



> Sorry edited to add I just did a search and asked what Obamas IQ was and found 116 and for McCain 133



That sentence makes it sound like its a fact that his IQ is 116 and McCains is 133.

Thats the kind of stuff I take issue with in these posts. I could care less what either of their IQ's are. But I dont think its right to post estimates and make it seem like its a fact.

and as the comments show it really doesnt matter if his IQ is high or Low because someone will find something wrong with it either way






Okay Im off to clean some stalls and try to brush Features mane. Omg you all dont know what I go through trying to keep that mountain of mane and tail on that pony lol


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## tagalong (Oct 20, 2008)

AppyLover2 said:


> Tag - give me a break. I guess you're going to say it's just a coincidence?



You lost me. WHAT is "just a coincidence"? That poll? Where did I even suggest anything of the sort?

These threads - despite one that advocated peace yesterday - are getting stranger and stranger...

I have said there was good and bad in both candidates and their platforms from the very beginning - to the great mirth of some here...

Why is not proclaiming his IQ score "hiding something" anyway? Yeeesh. Mayeb he never took the test. If he had announced it - there would be sneers and slams about how he was trying to show off - or that he was lying and it was really much lower than stated.

Yet another no-win situation on the ever spinning hamster wheel...


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## LowriseMinis (Oct 20, 2008)

I was under the impression that IQ tests were abandoned as a reliable measure of someone's intelligence.


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## Bassett (Oct 20, 2008)

You guys are all soooo funny. Gives me a good laugh to read what you guys write and HOW you think. You keep saying the same things OVER and OVER and OVER again. When I see your names I really don't have to read I know what they are going to say. Thanks for the laugh. Made my day.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2008)

This endorsement does not surprise me one bit. It also does not mean anything to me.


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## tagalong (Oct 20, 2008)

> You guys are all soooo funny. Gives me a good laugh to read what you guys write and HOW you think. You keep saying the same things OVER and OVER and OVER again. When I see your names I really don't have to read I know what they are going to say. Thanks for the laugh. Made my day.


*Bassett *- despite what you said in the other thread - you continue to



and



and ridicule the opinions of others.

And you do it over and over and over and over again.

And no - it does not make me laugh. You just flip-flop - like every politician does.

Try reading once in a while - instead of being so dismissive and sneering. I read everything everyone says - how else can you make any kind of a reply that is part of the discussion..

If I prefer facts over and over and over again in many of these threads - from both sides - I am glad that is such a_ BWAHAHAHA!!_ source of merriment for you.


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## Bassett (Oct 20, 2008)

Like I said I know what you are going to say.


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## loveminis (Oct 20, 2008)

Good grief !! I am not going to post anymore on the political threads.



I am tired of it.


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## tagalong (Oct 20, 2008)

> Like I said I know what you are going to say.


Wow.





I'll just quote myself - and leave some of you to your Highway, merriment, accusations, contempt etc.



> You continue to
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bassett (Oct 20, 2008)

Tag, you and a few others make EVERY remark into a challenge. I just can't help myself. If it isn't the same as your opinion it is challenged.



Why?


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## Crabby-Chicken (Oct 20, 2008)

Im am laughing.... People are saying Colin Powell is voting for Barack because of him african american blood. Colin Powell came out 8 years ago and said he was backing Bush. That means he only votes for black people? Hmmm.

I lost all respect for Powell when he entered Bush's cabinet. They used him to perpetuate the war lie. At least he left as soon as he could. But when he was saying how McCain using Ayers and implying that Obama was a terrorist is disgusting. He got my respect back. He knows that Obama is a strong leader and McCain is not. ESPECIALLY since Powell has such extensive military background, and he won't vote for McCain makes me very nervous about McCain.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

> makes me very nervous about McCain


I'm not trying to start anything, but now you know how some of us feel about Obama.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Oct 20, 2008)

Appylover2,,,

I do understand. We all have our reasons. That is why the fighting has been so bad. It is not that people dislike the other one,,,( at least I don't dislike anyone on here!) but it is because it is SO important. We have lived in fear for 8 years, that is enough.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2008)

> We have lived in fear for 8 years


Although I can't say I agree with everything that Pres. Bush has done, I'm not in agreement totally with ANY politician. But I can tell you one thing, I have not lived in fear (other than a couple days) while Bush has been in and that I'm greatful for. Bush has definately been given a bad rap (and no...he is not perfect), but I do agree with a few others on this board that history will show him to be a very positive prominate figure in the US in years to come.

I am an Air Traffic Controller and I can tell you the days after Sept 11 no one felt more fear than me and my coworkers (responsible for thousands and thousands of lives), other than the victims and their families/friends of 9-11 (and those that were there). I first hand saw the leadership and integrity it took to get things back under control...and yes, Bush was responsible for that. After the first couple days after 9-11, I knew I did not have to live in fear. I hope I can say the same for the future.

That is why I support John McCain....perhaps because of my job, foreign relations and national securtiy are top on my list. No, it's not the economy as everyone else thinks about...that is second for me. I do feel confident with John McCain in office that I will not have to fear for the lives of my fellow Americans. And as far as the econmy, I trust him with my hard earned dollars.


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## Bassett (Oct 20, 2008)

well said Sonya


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 20, 2008)

You know Sonya even though I knew you were an air traffic controller it never occurred to me that you might have been involved with the security measures that were needed on 9/11 and the days following the terrorist attack. You've brought things into focus for me that I hadn't really considered before. I absolutely understand national security being a higher priority for you in the list of concerns. I realized after reading your post that my years in the military are what have made me more concerned about it too.

I don't recall ever being so proud of, and moved by, our president as I was President Bush when we realized what was happening and were so filled with fear.

I know it's too little too late but I need to express my appreciation to you and the ATCs everywhere for doing such an outstanding job in helping to keep us safe on that day. It must have been absolute H E L L for you all.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2008)

Thankyou Bonnie and Donna...I truely appreciate your comments and opinons, I've learned lots from you both.

And as much as I hate to admit it :arg! , I do appreciate others opinions even though I do not agree with them. (or I wouldn't spend so much time responding to them...lol) and yes Danielle that does include you (although I still will not take your opinion with me into the voting booth)...and lowrise who I don't even know her name even though we've both spent plenty of time insulting each other.

I think we ALL have _somewhat_ of a main goal here...we just can't agree how to get there.


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## tagalong (Oct 21, 2008)

> Tag, you and a few others make EVERY remark into a challenge. I just can't help myself. If it isn't the same as your opinion it is challenged. Why?


Not sure why I am even bothering - but *that ^^^* is not true. *Sonya* - we will never Get There while some constantly go out of their way to challenge, sneer, condemn, taunt, to say whatever they please even when it is not anything remotely resembling the truth - fine, their choice/opinion - but then when anyone responds with less than a




or shares some facts behind the topic _they _are the ones at fault?





No - I have never gone after anyone who did not share my opinion - in fact - my main focus has been trying to find the facts behind the fables and smears and viral BS. And not a lot of opinion.

Some need to take responsibility for their own actions - and look at how they post instead of _always _pointing fingers at others. Starting with respect for the concerns/opinions of others - which some have never shown - and apparently do not care to.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Oct 21, 2008)

Sonya you may not have been scared but I have. The reason??? Because that anyone that can cause a war on a lie, to make money in which he kills over 4000 good Americans is SICK.He sat and did his scare tactics until he got his way. People sit back and try to justify Bush and make it all okay. They don't care.

I have the best son that any mother could want. If people like Bush and McCain keeps invading other countries in ticking contests there is a good chance they will try and make him fight for it. When I hear people sit here and validate how they shouldn't be taxed more, they have more and they deserve. HA. They are not sitting at home on their money and think I will send my son to war for that reason. NO way. That is the only fear I have. And when McCain said that we could be at war for 100 years and that seemed acceptable to him. That is when I knew he was no better than Bush.


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## Cathy_H (Oct 21, 2008)

> Because that anyone that can cause a war on a lie


Apparently our dedicated military do not agree with the above statement. For those of you that look at polls here's one polling military people only.

McCain - 68%.

Obama - 23%

I'd venture to say that they realize the need for military force in todays terroristic world. I pray they don't lose their will to fight when that dreadfull crisis arrives that Biden is referring to IF Obama is elected. One the terrorists are referring to as greater & more horrific than 9/11.

Terror groups are tracking our election online. Remember folks - if we don't have our security - the economy won't matter at all!

Poll

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/10/military_poll_100508w/


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 21, 2008)

Crabby I understand your fear about the possibility of your son being called to serve his country. Mothers have had the same fear since we became a nation. I join you in praying that he doesn't have to go, and if he does I'll join you in praying for his safety. The vast majority of our young men and women serving right now believe in what they're doing; why else would they volunteer for additional tours or say they don't want to leave their fellow servicemen. None of them are there because their mothers wanted them to go. No matter which of our candidates is elected the war in Afganistan will continue and will grow much larger before it ends. There will be many mothers praying for their service members. To say that the rest of us don't care is doing us an great injustice.


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## Bassett (Oct 21, 2008)

Kim, I also worried about my sons but the draft has been out for many years. Unless they bring the draft back I wouldn't let my self worry about it.



I really can't say but I don't know why they would bring it back with so many joining on their own. Please try not to dwell on it. I know you are worried.


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## Crabby-Chicken (Oct 21, 2008)

Thank you Appy and Bassett. I am glad you understand my fear.


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## kaykay (Oct 21, 2008)

> so many joining on their own.


Just wanted to say when we went to Kennys boot camp graduation they told us how low enlistments are right now as they always are at a time of war. His dad and I were personally thanked by his drill seargant for Kenny enlisting during a time of war (along with the other parents that attended graduation)

Many of Kennys friends have been back 2 and 3 times because there are not enough soldiers to keep rotating. This is why they are sending the National Guard troops over to give soldiers that have been there time to come home. The only reason Kenny isnt in Iraq right now is because his AIT is one of the longest and he wasnt done yet when his troop went over.

I think the draft is a very real possibility no matter who becomes president if the war in Iraq and Afghanistan continue.


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## Danielle_E. (Oct 21, 2008)

Well I hope whoever becomes President decides to get serious about Afghanistan. That is where a surge needs to take place and soon. The Taliban are gaining their strength again and in today's paper they reported a woman aide worker, 5 children, etc. were gunned down in the street by the Taliban



. It's time to get serious and crush the Taliban andtruly go after Bin Laden. It's time to go after him with a vengeance. The world keeps being afraid of this maniac, the world needs to come together and get the job done once and for all.


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 22, 2008)

There have been thousands of National Guard members activated in the last several years. I have several reasons for personally being in favor of the return of the draft, one of which is that I hate seeing fathers and mothers (some in their 30s and 40s) being mobilized for war.

When you talk about fear and I say I understand, it isn't because I have a son who might be called upon. It's because I've seen first hand the fear of the parents, spouses and children of our National Guard troops being activated. I was a member of a briefing team who visited with these "weekend warriors" who were boarding busses within a few hours to leave their homes, families and jobs because America needed them. I saw their tears and the fear in their eyes as they held onto their loved ones as they prepared to leave. I saw the tears and and fear on the faces of the soldiers who were being mobilized, but I also saw their determination and willingness to do whatever America needed them to do to insure our freedom.

These troops were being called during Operation Desert Storm. I had retired before Operation Iraqui Freedom, but I'm sure the fear and determination have been and will remain the same for whatever battle our service members are called on to perform. You can't begin to imagine how very sincere I am when I say GOD BLESS THEM ALL.


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## Laura (Oct 22, 2008)

AppyLover2 said:


> You can't begin to imagine how very sincere I am when I say GOD BLESS THEM ALL.


Donna,

I am with you 100% on this subject


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## AppyLover2 (Oct 22, 2008)

Thanks Laura. Writing that brought back a ton of memories and a lot of pride.


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