# Crooked Legs?



## MajorClementine (Dec 8, 2010)

Here's a pic of my little Clementine. You can see that she stands with her front right leg turned out. She also is a little bit knock kneed when she stands with her front feet square. Do you think this is something she will grow out of? I was planning on breeding her when she was older but not if she's got bad legs. She gets around fine so she'll just be a pet if this is the case.


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## chandab (Dec 8, 2010)

She may or may not, depending on why her legs are that way. Its possible with good, knowledgeable hoof trims and proper nutrition that they will improve, but she may or may not be "straight" when mature. [i've seen much worse, and they've come straight. And, I've seen some stay that way.]

I'm sure someone with more conformation knowledge can share more information.


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## rabbitsfizz (Dec 8, 2010)

I am inclined to think not, not on her own. You need to get a remedial farrier to her, if possible. The problem is, if this goes on uncorrected, she will spring a splint in the first case, and later this leg will be open to arthritis.

I had a colt born with the same thing, probably a bit worse than your filly, but with paring and care he went on the be a top notch driving horse...


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## Jill (Dec 8, 2010)

How old is she in the picture?

With some filling out of her chest, things may look much different.

_PS love that snip on her nose!!!_


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## targetsmom (Dec 8, 2010)

We have a mare that had crooked legs as a filly and they never did straighten out despite lots of assurances that they would. BUT, she is still a lovely mover who has turned into a wonderful driving mini and all around useful animal. (She will not be bred). I bet you will find lots of things that your mini can do even if her legs don't improve. But they might. Good luck with her - she is adorable.


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## albahurst (Dec 8, 2010)

Myofascial release may help ALOT - it is body work that releases the restrictions of the connective tissue.


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## HGFarm (Dec 8, 2010)

I would have your vet make recommendations for a top farrier who is familiar with helping to correct this type of thing as much as possible. Depends on whether it's due to conformation or what is going on there. Your vet and a good farrier can probably figure it out and discuss with you what chances she has of straightening up some.


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## mizbeth (Dec 9, 2010)

Yes, it is hard to say on her. Lots of horses look knock kneed with their winter hair but clipped off are straight. Hard to see if she turns out from the knee or shoulder, but appears to be the knee. It could be a simple trim job is needed, or perhaps nothing much will help her, maturity and then she could still be "off".

Of course the winter hair does not help either. GOOD feed and GOOD trims (probably often) are your best course of action now. A lot of farriers I have noticed cannot see well enough "through the hair" to see the angle of the hoof or what needs to be done. I have had to clip them off to the knee for some to see. Miniature horses don't wear shoes so your farrier needs to be able to do corrective trimming without depending on putting on shoes to correct the problem. Hard to find good mini farriers, this is why "most of us on the forum" have learned to do our own over the years.

It appears to be the left front leg that turns out?


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## midnight star stables (Dec 9, 2010)

She is beautiful





Can you get more pictures of the filly? In this picture it looks like she almost not standing/putting pressure on the right front leg. I'd like to see her standing "square" from the front and side. The better the pictures, the more help can be offered.





How old is she? How long have her legs been crooked? When were her feet last trimmed?


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## MajorClementine (Dec 9, 2010)

She is 6 months old in that picture. I will get more pictures of her today to put up. She was trimmed about 3 weeks before this picture. We are lucky to have a really good farrier here. One of those people who just "get it". He explained to me, one day, how he trims my thoroughbred horses different from my draft horses because of their lung and size and their short or longer strides. We've had him correct a few of our horses over the years so maybe he can help us out.

I'm feeding timothy hay pellets right now. They are not feed store pellets I buy them direct from the factory (just 40 miles from us) and they are made the day before I pick them up so I know they are fresh. They are a wonderful bright green color... not the grayish color some of the feed store ones are. Should she be getting supplements?

like I said I'll get more pics but it looks to me that she is turned out at the knee and not the shoulder.

Thanks for the help


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## Ashley (Dec 9, 2010)

MajorClementine said:


> She is 6 months old in that picture. I will get more pictures of her today to put up. She was trimmed about 3 weeks before this picture. We are lucky to have a really good farrier here. One of those people who just "get it". He explained to me, one day, how he trims my thoroughbred horses different from my draft horses because of their lung and size and their short or longer strides. We've had him correct a few of our horses over the years so maybe he can help us out.
> 
> I'm feeding timothy hay pellets right now. They are not feed store pellets I buy them direct from the factory (just 40 miles from us) and they are made the day before I pick them up so I know they are fresh. They are a wonderful bright green color... not the grayish color some of the feed store ones are. Should she be getting supplements?
> 
> ...



Is she only getting hay pellets? She need some sort of grain. SHe is not getting anything at all close to what she needs for nutrition.


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## MajorClementine (Dec 9, 2010)

Okay... from what I've read, quality grass hay is supposed to be nutritionally complete for horses. The only time I grain my big guys is if we are working them or it's going to be a sub-zero night. I've also read that these little guys founder easy. I've had my big guys "stock up" even on mild amounts of grain.



Ashley said:


> Is she only getting hay pellets? She need some sort of grain. SHe is not getting anything at all close to what she needs for nutrition.


So you say she's not getting "anything at all close" to what she needs... but what do you suggest? I'm new at this mini horse thing. I just don't want to founder or colic these guys.


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## HGFarm (Dec 9, 2010)

There was an article in the MHW a few years back regarding Minis and feed requirements. They require more protein than the full sized ones, and especially a growing foal. I would say grass pellets is not nearly enough either. Is she getting any roughage at all? Pasture? No hay at all? Many brands of pellets are also baked at an extremely high temperature- how much nutrition is really left after processing?

Since she is so young, if you keep after her every month with a good trim to help correct that, you may be able to help her out. They will have to figure out what exactly she needs to help correct, not just keeping her feet trimmed short.


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## MajorClementine (Dec 9, 2010)

HGFarm said:


> There was an article in the MHW a few years back regarding Minis and feed requirements. They require more protein than the full sized ones, and especially a growing foal. I would say grass pellets is not nearly enough either. Is she getting any roughage at all? Pasture? No hay at all? Many brands of pellets are also baked at an extremely high temperature- how much nutrition is really left after processing?


She is getting grass hay along with her pellets. The pellets we buy are processed at a very low temp. This is why we buy them direct from these guys. We've worked with them for years now. We pay a little more but like you said... most pellets have the nutrition baked out. It's like saying that corn chips are corn!

So what do we suggest for grain? Maybe I should start a new thread about it???

Oh and in the Spring, summer, fall she'll get pasture. She did this fall as well.


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## ohmt (Dec 9, 2010)

Yes, miniatures and the big guys are very different when it comes to nutrition. She is going to need a much higher protein content for a couple of years while she is growing and maturing.

I feed my foals-2 year olds Omelene 300, alfalfa/grass hay mix (free choice), and then also give some beet pulp if needed. They do really, really well on this (filled out, no bellies). I would start adding some omelene 300 (or see what some of your local feed stores have to offer growing foals). 14%-16% protein content is best.

If you do a search for previous threads, there are literally hundreds of different threads on what to feed a growing mini.


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## albahurst (Dec 9, 2010)

moved to discussion on another thread


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## midnight star stables (Dec 28, 2010)

Also, because you asked about breeding and you are new to the form I just wanted to mention something about registration papers/ registries.

Most people on here and most mini horse owners do not care for the WCMHR registry. The main two registries are the AMHR and the AMHA. WCMHR is nice for unregistered pet, or as an added set of papers on a horse that already has been registered, but not really breeding. Others may add more.

Thinking of you... Keep us posted!


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## MajorClementine (Dec 28, 2010)

midnight star stables said:


> Also, because you asked about breeding and you are new to the form I just wanted to mention something about registration papers/ registries.
> 
> Most people on here and most mini horse owners do not care for the WCMHR registry. The main two registries are the AMHR and the AMHA. WCMHR is nice for unregistered pet, or as an added set of papers on a horse that already has been registered, but not really breeding. Others may add more.
> 
> Thinking of you... Keep us posted!


I do realize that A & R are the prefered registries but thank you for mentioning it anyway. If I was to breed her it would be only to have another mini for me to cart train and have as a pet. I don't plan on breeding her several times and I don't plan on being able to "make money" off breeding her. There are plenty of amazing breeding programs out there and I don't have the time, money, or know how to begin to venture into that market.

A quick question though... I've started her on the omelene 200 with one 12oz soup can every evening. She's been getting that much for almost 3 weeks. Her pot belly is gone but she is still very thin (she has been wormed). How much grain should I up her to? I was thinking one can AM and PM. Will that be enough? She's 8 months old and 130ish pounds. It's so hard to see and feel how she's actually built under all that hair but I know she could stand to put on some weight. Oh and she gets as much grass hay (some stemmy alfalfa in it) as she wants.


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## Getitia (Dec 28, 2010)

> I've started her on the omelene 200 with one 12oz soup can every evening. She's been getting that much for almost 3 weeks


We typically feed our weanling foals that are about the size of your filly - the equivalent of 3 of your 12 oz soup cans of 16% grain, 2 times a day. I would add another AM feeding now and over the next couple of weeks work her up to at least 2 - 12 oz cans twice a day and then evaluate her after a few weeks. I suspect that you may need to up her to at least three 12 oz cans twice a day for a period of time.


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## minih (Dec 28, 2010)

Omalene 200 is what we feed our foals. I agree with what Getitia wrote. Would love to see some after pics in a couple of weeks of feeding your little one this way. You may be amazed in her overall appearance, including her legs. Good luck, she has a very sweet face to her.


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## MajorClementine (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. I'll up her an AM feeding as soon as I get home then double her PM a week after then double her AM the following week. I am just nervous about foundering her so I really appreciate the advice from you guys. I'll post updated pics when I get home then again in a month.


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## Raine Ranch Minis (Dec 28, 2010)

Ok I have a question. I have a 6 mo old filly that has a pot belly. I am feeding her 2/3 cups of strategy and 2/3 cups of black oil sunflower seeds. How much does she need, is that enough?

Here is a picture or two.




















Sorry for her looking so nasty and yuck.



She hasn't had a bath since Sep. LOL


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## Little Wolf Ranch (Dec 28, 2010)

Raine Ranch, are you feeding 2/3 cup of Strategy & 2/3 cup of BOSS per day or are you feeding 2-3 cups of Strategy & BOSS each per day?

If you are only feeding 2/3 cup of Strategy & BOSS per day I would definately say that she isn't getting enough. She's a growing girl and needs alot more to be able to grow and function properly. You can better judge her weight by feeling her topline and ribcage - how do those feel?


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## Raine Ranch Minis (Dec 28, 2010)

I am sorry I said it wrong. I am feeding that twice a day. In the AM and PM with hay at night and there is a round bale in the pasture that she and the othe horses eat on in the day time. You can feel her topline and ribcage very easy. She has gained a little weight from when we got her. She was really under weight when we bought her becuse she was weaned at 3 mo, becuse she was pulling her mom way down.


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## Ashley (Dec 28, 2010)

You can tell that that filly is very very thin. Cut out the seeds, it doesnt do anything. She needs alot more feed then you are giving her. My adult minis get one cup of feed, per feeding. When I had a thin broodmare she was getting a 2 qt scoop of feed a feeding. Get her upped in grain and free choice hay. Also weaning at 3 months isnt a reason to be thin, but lack of food is.


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## MajorClementine (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. I'll up her an AM feeding as soon as I get home then double her PM a week after then double her AM the following week. I am just nervous about foundering her so I really appreciate the advice from you guys. I'll post updated pics when I get home then again in a month.


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## Minimor (Dec 28, 2010)

Raine Ranch--2/3 of a cup of grain, with or without the 2/3 cup of BOSS, isn't nearly enough for a weanling, even if you do give that 2x a day. My weanlings are each getting nearly 2 litres of grain....4 cups...twice a day, along with free choice hay. One thing to watch about the round bale==how many horses are in the group? Are they various ages, or all weanlings? Is there just one round bale? The thing about group feeding with a round bale, depending on numbers of horses and numbers of bales, the underdogs may not get a fair chance to eat their share of the hay. I hope that you, or someone, does keep an eye on them to make sure that your little weaning is getting a fair share of the hay. All it takes is for a couple of the boss horses to hang out by the bale most of the day, and they don't let others up to eat.


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## chandab (Dec 28, 2010)

Raine Ranch Minis said:


> Ok I have a question. I have a 6 mo old filly that has a pot belly. I am feeding her 2/3 cups of strategy and 2/3 cups of black oil sunflower seeds. How much does she need, is that enough?


The Purina mini feed chart, shows 1# to 1.5# of Stategy for weanlings that will mature at 200#. Not all feeds weigh the same, but many pelleted feeds weight about 6oz per cup (standard dry measure kitchen cup). So, to get a pound of pelleted feed, you would need to feed 3 cups.

For comparison, I feed a ration balancer; highly concentrated, so fed in smaller amounts; my "B" baby got 1.5# ration balancer daily as a weanling (that was 2 cups 2x daily)[an "A" baby would get about 1/3 less daily]; if I had fed her a "regular grain", she probably would have gotten at least 2x more. As a coming 2-year old, she is getting 1# daily ration balancer plus 2 cups of oat/alfalfa pellet mix (come mid-spring, she'll drop down to 3/4#, which is 1 cup 2x daily). [she is actually a little chubby, but I won't diet anyone with our nasty winter weather.]


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## Getitia (Dec 28, 2010)

I really wouldn't worry about foundering your weanling filly feeding the grain amounts that have been mentioned - As an example (and realize that everyone does things somewhat different) all of our nursing foals are creep fed and have access to eat as much grain as they want 24/7. They eat for awhile and then leave the feeder -then come back later and eat a little more. We have used our creep feeder approach for over a decade. After the foals are weaned, we discontinue creep feeding as some of the foals will over eat and get too fat - but I've yet to have a weanling founder.

To give you an idea - here is a 5 month old amha/amhr weanling filly - right before she started growing her winter coat.






Miniature foals grow so much during the first 6 to 8 months of their life, and then if it is cold - they need more energy to keep warm, that the need for ample protein is great during this high growth time period. Our post weaning- weanling feeding program is pretty simple - just a good quality high protein pelleted grain, free choice Morman vitamins and free choice quality hay.

I check for condition every week on every foal - I take off my gloves, put my hands into the fur across the back and along the ribs and across the hip and if I feel a spine sticking up or hip bones, the grain is increased. Seldom do I ever have a foal this time of year become too fat.

I hope this is of help. Good luck with your filly - you are going to really notice a wonderful difference with the increase in her grain.


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## Raine Ranch Minis (Dec 28, 2010)

> You can tell that that filly is very very thin. Cut out the seeds, it doesnt do anything. She needs alot more feed then you are giving her. My adult minis get one cup of feed, per feeding. When I had a thin broodmare she was getting a 2 qt scoop of feed a feeding. Get her upped in grain and free choice hay. Also weaning at 3 months isnt a reason to be thin, but lack of food is.


I looked at the Purina mini feed chart and we are uping it to 1 and 1/8 cups twice a day over 7-10 days. I am going to keep feeding BOSS. It does do something, it gives your horse oils so it has a shinier coat. Instead of having to feed oil supplements. Besides all the horses love them. Not trying to be mean, but I don't plan on stopping the BOSS.







> Raine Ranch--2/3 of a cup of grain, with or without the 2/3 cup of BOSS, isn't nearly enough for a weanling, even if you do give that 2x a day. My weanlings are each getting nearly 2 litres of grain....4 cups...twice a day, along with free choice hay. One thing to watch about the round bale==how many horses are in the group? Are they various ages, or all weanlings? Is there just one round bale? The thing about group feeding with a round bale, depending on numbers of horses and numbers of bales, the underdogs may not get a fair chance to eat their share of the hay. I hope that you, or someone, does keep an eye on them to make sure that your little weaning is getting a fair share of the hay. All it takes is for a couple of the boss horses to hang out by the bale most of the day, and they don't let others up to eat.


We have 5 horses in the pasture together at once various ages. We are getting another bale this week.

Thank you for all your advice!!!!!!!!!!!



:yes


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## Ashley (Dec 28, 2010)

By feeding it you are filling her will something that isnt giving her any nutrition and taking away an the ability to eat more of what she needs. IF she is on proper feed and the amount she needs her coat will shine and wont need anything extra.

I looked at the pics of her on your site, and to me it appears she has actually lost weight since then.


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