# Serious question......please no fights



## Ashley (Jun 5, 2008)

If your child( or if you dont have one pretend you do) wanted to stay the night at a friends house, would you be ok with it if the other childs parents were gay? How would you handle the situation to make sure neither kid was uncomfortable?


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## minimomNC (Jun 5, 2008)

Yes and depending on the age of the child. If younger then I wouldn't make an issue of it. The parents I assume would already know the situation and would be comfortable with it so the child wouldn't think anything about it if you don't make a big deal of it.


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## strass (Jun 5, 2008)

Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's A. What concerns me is the safety of a child and that the activities they take place in are appropriate.

I don't personally believe that there is any higher % of wrong doing to a child in gay people than there is in strait people. With that said, I trust NO ONE completely.


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## txminipinto (Jun 5, 2008)

Good parents are good parents, regardless of sexual preference. As long as I felt that my child was in a safe environment, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Now, of course, depending on the age of the child, PDA's should be EXTREMELY discreet out of respect (and that wouldn't matter if they were straight or not).


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## Jill (Jun 5, 2008)

Yes, it would be 100% fine with me assuming the couple were good people. I would tell my child before hand "you know, Jimmy has two mommies." Love is love and the fact that a percentage of the population is gay is a fact. It's not going to change and it's not something I feel is anything to shield a child from. It's not a negative thing, it just "is".


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## StellaLenoir (Jun 5, 2008)

I am so happy to see such open minded responces so far!

I too fall into the catagory of good parents are good parents no matter what gender they chose to be with. So long as all parties are grown ups, and they take good care of their children I would be fine with my kids staying over.

I too, trust no one completely when it comes to my kids. I am always super carefull and quiz the kids when they get home.






My kids would not be fazed by a gay couple, we have a very open minded house hold, and we talk about everything very honestly. My 9 year old can ask anything and receve an appropeate but still honest responce so gay parents is no biggy to her

people without pets are weirder to her!





ps sorry my spelling is sooooo bad! OH!


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## Laura (Jun 5, 2008)

[SIZE=12pt]Considering how incredibly well I would have to know *all * family members in a home where I allowed Mia to stay overnight, yes, I would be fine with her staying with a child who's parents were gay or lesbian. Of course Mia is well aware that not all families are Mommy + Daddy



[/SIZE]


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## lvponies (Jun 5, 2008)

It would be the same for me if the parents were gay or straight.....as long as they are good people who I trusted with my child, their sexual preference would be a non-issue for me.


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## MiniHunterHorseFan (Jun 5, 2008)

Frankly no, I would not be okay if the other child's parent was gay. I would not let my child stay there.


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## RockRiverTiff (Jun 5, 2008)

Frankly I can't see any good reason why I wouldn't be comfortable with it, assuming as others have already stated that the parents are good people. I would imagine if my (hypothetical) child is already friends with the other child, then they are already familiar with their family situation too. Other than a small preface like Jill's example, I don't even see why this situation needs to be "handled."


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## strass (Jun 5, 2008)

MiniHunterHorseFan said:


> Frankly no, I would not be okay if the other child's parent was gay. I would not let my child stay there.


OK, I'm serious now. Nobody says a thing about this. She was asked for her opinion and only replied. She is entitled to her opinion and, since it's about how she would handle her own children, it has no effect on anyone else. We all have to chose what we feel is the right way to raise our kids. Despite the numerous people who have tried, there is no “Right & Wrong Manual on Children”.

Ashley requested no fighting on this subject.


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## Miniv (Jun 5, 2008)

By the time I started allowing my daughter to spend nights at people's homes, I always knew the family and felt comfortable about the situation.........this goes with whether or not the couple was straight, homosexual, or a single parent........

I happen to know some homosexual couples who would make MUCH better parents than some hetero couples. As long as the parents are nurturing and teach good values, that's what is important.


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## stormo41 (Jun 5, 2008)

I would have to know the parents and trust them before i let my child stay there alone for 10 seconds nevermind overnight. their sexual pefernce would not matter so long as they are good parents and people.


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## Leeana (Jun 5, 2008)

Yes, i would. I would have a talk with my child first, of course, so they didnt ask the wrong question or put the other parents in an akward position.


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## susanne (Jun 5, 2008)

The parents' sexual orientation would be a complete NON-issue. I would want to know the parents, straight, gay, or lesbian, but I would be looking to see that they were good, kind people, not to see if they fit into some pre-conceived mold.

I don't think I would say anything in advance to my child, as that might suggest that the parents were different. Children are by nature openminded and adaptable, and I'd rather they see for themselves that there is more than one type of loving family. I can't imagine an innocent question from a small child being offensive, and besides, they probably would already have discussed this with their friend!


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## capall beag (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't like my kids having sleepovers because they are all still young.

That said, I would only allow my kids stay at a persons house if I knew them well and trusted them with my kids.

Them being gay wouldn't have any effect on my decision.

I wouldn't really explain it to my kids......too complicated for them to understand.

Same way I don't explain why their friends daddy is not their real daddy etc

Kids are not prejudice or judgemental and they ask honest Q's.

If they asked Q's I answer them honestly.

My kids are 8, 6 and 3.


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## Boss Mare (Jun 5, 2008)

Of course I would not mind.





My partner and I have already talked about this issue as we do plan to have kids in the future.. and are already planning to attempt to prepare for it.. even though are children are planned at least 5 years from now.


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## SampleMM (Jun 5, 2008)

I am an overly protective parent and I do background checks before my children are allowed to stay anywhere. Honestly, it would not matter if they were gay. Their character is what I'm concerned about.


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## Matt73 (Jun 5, 2008)

Gays are not child molesters and they don't seek to convert the world. OMG. What is the problem. One is born gay, not made that way. Take it from me. My parents were straight. Some of the worst parents in the world are straight. Why not get to know the parents? And then make a decision. I can't believe this kind of bigotry and ignorance still exists...





Edited to add that I'm responding to "minihunterhorsefan"....


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## ErikaS. (Jun 5, 2008)

Our rule is we get to meet the parents, before our kid can stay there. We can get a feel for what kind of people they are. Sexual orientation is not an issue with us. As was said before, good people are good people, gay or straight. I have gay friends I would trust my child to stay with and I know plenty of heteros that I would not let even my goldfish near.

I would explain to my child, matter-of- factly, that so and so has two mommies or daddies. No big deal... and you better be good for them!


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## Matt73 (Jun 5, 2008)

MiniHunterHorseFan said:


> Frankly no, I would not be okay if the other child's parent was gay. I would not let my child stay there.



Sorry. Claws are coming out. I take this personally. What would you do if your child was gay? It's not a choice. Could you just decide, one day, to sleep with a woman. Most gay people, myself included, as teens pray to wake up straight. When we come out, so to speak, and accept ourselves is when we stop believing in all the messages that tell us that this is wrong and that we're to hate ourselves. I thank God I was raised by loving parents that are proud of me for who I am, not who I sleep with -and sometimes even then




-. My father is an Oxford educated neurologist that is a well respected professor at U of T. My mother, a nurse. Both believe in god. Both love me very much. Thank GOD I'm not your child.



strass said:


> MiniHunterHorseFan said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly no, I would not be okay if the other child's parent was gay. I would not let my child stay there.
> ...



And, as a gay person, I have a right to respond. No fighting.

Again, this is not towards you Ashley.


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## Reijel's Mom (Jun 5, 2008)

Add me to the "I'd be ok with it" list.

I can't help but wonder if there are lots more that would not be ok with it that aren't answering. . .


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## Reignmaker Miniatures (Jun 5, 2008)

I fail to see a persons sexual orientation as an issue. If they don't ask me about my sex life I won't ask about theirs. Keep my child safe and I'm happy. I'd be more concerned about the parents who's marriage is crumbling that have huge fights in front of my kids or get drunk and fall asleep before the kids do. There are far worse things to worry about that if they happen to be gay.


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## River Wood (Jun 5, 2008)

I guess I have always thought that.....no matter WHAT you choose to do, or how you decide to live your life, the beliefs that you have etc etc etc...

at least be confident enough in yourself and those choices, be proud of who you are and what ever you choose to stand for. That can really help one in not taking things "so personally" That can really eat away at you. Just as one person wants respect, understanding and acceptance for the choices that they make and the opinions that they have.....a person with the opposite beliefs does too. .


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## tigeresss (Jun 5, 2008)

Assuming the persons were trustworthy and safe (like ANYBODY else) then yes of course they would. I have never understood how a person can see a gay person different from a straight person. It's all the same to me...just as a persons faith or skin colour makes no difference to me. A place that I would NOT let my children sleepover at would be one filled with closed-mindedness, biggotry and hate...i.e. someone that can't accept gay/lesbian/transgendered people etc.

I agree 100% with reignmaker miniatures.


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## FoRebel (Jun 5, 2008)

As long as we know the parents and trust them with our child, I don't care what the orientation of the parental units are. I have absolutely no problem with my child being around same sex partners... As a matter of fact, one of the ladies on the fire department with my hubby is in a same sex relationship and Robbie (my 4-year-old) LOVES hanging out with her. As are our neighbors right next to us. To my kids it's the same as having a mommy and daddy... one just might have 2 mommies or 2 daddies!


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## CyndiM (Jun 5, 2008)

Since I don't have any_ young_ children this is a moot point with me. That being said when my children were growing up and I was raising grandchildren I didn't worry about the friend's parents sexual preference I worried about their actions and behavior in front of my/with my children.


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## Shaladar (Jun 5, 2008)

No problem here.

When my daughter was growing up (she's now 33) we knew several same sex couples/friends with children. Not a issue.

Sue


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## New_Image (Jun 6, 2008)

I guess I would not care so much as long as my child was old enough to know this is not what God intended. (MY OPINION no flames) I would definitely have a talk about it and there would be an age where I would and would not permit it.


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## Ashley (Jun 6, 2008)

Thanks for not turning this into a fight. I do respect everybodys opinions/thoughts, and feel they are all open to say what they feel and their beleifes.

Now I am curious, If there is anymore out there that would not be ok with it that are willing to step forward. What is the biggest issue you would have with it? Is there anything they could do to make you ok with it?

What would be ok with PDA or along those lines? What can one do or not do in these situations?


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## nootka (Jun 6, 2008)

No problem with it, all things being equal.

(provided no one sets off any warning bells for me, and I'd prefer to have my children a little older to do any kind of sleepover, anyway).

My kids are not shielded from the things in life that just "are" and this is one of them.

It does not matter to me which gender a person prefers, more so what kind of person they are.

The ONLY time that really matters is is they were a potential partner (and I'm married already, so I'm not looking...soooo you can guess how I feel).

A friend is a friend, and the more, the merrier!

Liz M.


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## Marty (Jun 6, 2008)

I've never been a fan of sleepovers. Most the kids stayed here but I didn't like my kids spending the night at others homes because a lot of parents drink and have guns in the house and do drugs. We were only very close to a couple of parents that I trusted with my kids. I always wanted to know who the parents were that owned all the kids that hung out over here.



How would you handle the situation to make sure neither kid was uncomfortable?

Ok, I'll address this: If my kids understood that kind lifestyle so there would be no kind of shocking or embarrassing moments for anyone it would be ok with me. If my child was really small and just not ready for that kind of information, he would not be going to a sleep over in the first place.

I would make sure neither kid would be uncomfortable by letting them get to know you first! Let the kids spend time together playing with each other and being around you on regular play dates. Then they would be used to the lifestyle and not think a lot about it most likely and that is when they would be ready for a sleepover.

I also think it would be important for the child's parents to meet you and your partner too. Sometimes people are scared of what they do not know and what they do not understand. They can dream up all kinds of things they think might go on in their heads and it would be good to put their minds at ease. I feel that the parents should have a chance to come over your house and get to know you just as I would want to get to know any other parent.


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## Brandi* (Jun 6, 2008)

Everybody has different belief systems and teaches their children according to that system. If it goes against the families morals and beliefs than I could see them not letting their child stay over.


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## Marty (Jun 6, 2008)

What is PDA? sorry


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## ShaunaL (Jun 6, 2008)

(Marty, PDA = Public Display of Affection)

As most have already answered, the parents' orientation would not be of any concern to me, my issues would be how are they as people, as parents, etc? I would have to know someone VERY well even to let my children play over, let alone sleep over. My children are still very young so it hasn't been an issue but they have often been around gay/lesbian people and it's never been awkward or uncomfortable for them. My oldest sons (6 and 4) know that not every family or couple is man/woman.

Some of the best people I know are gay/lesbian and honestly, the percentage of "quality" people I know that are G/L is higher than in the straight ppl I know... maybe more character, consideration of others due to what many of them go through just in their day-to-day life??? This is not always true, I'm sure but it sure is in my little circle here


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## minimule (Jun 6, 2008)

I'm one that would not allow it. It goes against my personal beliefs and what I would be raising my child to accept and believe.


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## Marty (Jun 6, 2008)

Ohhhhhhhhhh PDA, Public Disply of Affection:

Ok in front of the children staying at your house? Like kissing etc. ?

Hus and I wouldn't be sitting around carrying on and smooching and going at it in front of the kids with their friends over watching us in the first place so I would say no. We could contain ourselves lol. Maybe we're just shy about those things but we still do always hold hands at the mall so I don't get lost.



There's a time and place for everything. Besides, you'll be too busy keeping an eye on them.


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## crponies (Jun 6, 2008)

Personally, I would also have to say no. This lifestyle is also against my belief system. No, I don't hate homosexuals; I just don't agree with their choice of lifestyle. Also, I would probably need to know the family pretty well before my kids slept over at their house, and I don't have any homosexual friends (unless you count forum friends which aren't quite the same). My places of socialization (church, Christian school) just don't include any.


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## Jill (Jun 6, 2008)

I do respect everyone's opinion, but I will be happier when there is well documented, well publicized research and studies showing that being gay is not any more a choice than it is a choice to be straight. Hopefully when it's well known that it's the way a person is born _(and in my own opinion, the way God made them)_, people won't be as judgemental.


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## Scoopiedoo (Jun 6, 2008)

As has already been said, a good parent is a good parent regardless of sexual orientation. I have met many straight families that I wouldn't even allow my kids over for a few hours let alone a sleep over. I think in terms of PDA, depending on the age of the kid, they all get like, "EWWWW" when witnessing PDA. That said, I guess my opinion on that is one can display affection without being over the top or providing over info. I think what I mean to say as long as it's affection and not disgusting (like GET A ROOM), I see no issue. People are very closed minded sometimes, and I'm sorry that this is an issue. I think there are many more things much more upsetting than same sex couples.

Jodi


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## Matt73 (Jun 6, 2008)

crponies said:


> Personally, I would also have to say no. This lifestyle is also against my belief system. No, I don't hate homosexuals; I just don't agree with their choice of lifestyle. Also, I would probably need to know the family pretty well before my kids slept over at their house, and I don't have any homosexual friends (unless you count forum friends which aren't quite the same). My places of socialization (church, Christian school) just don't include any.



Do you not understand that "the lifestyle" is not a choice? Could you all of a sudden wake up tomorrow and just decide to have sexual feelings for a woman? Think about it.



Jill said:


> I do respect everyone's opinion, but I will be happier when there is well documented, well publicized research and studies showing that being gay is not any more a choice than it is a choice to be straight. Hopefully when it's well known that it's the way a person is born _(and in my own opinion, the way God made them)_, people won't be as judgemental.


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## ChrystalPaths (Jun 6, 2008)

Sexual preferences have nothing to do with the "human being" within. If these folk are good people they could sleep with Zebra's and I could care. Bedroom doors are closed in both the heterosexual and homosexual world. No different in either case for children. You wouldn't leave your children to view any behavior private and for children to see "afffection and closeness" between any two people is needed today in a huge way! jmho


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## River Wood (Jun 6, 2008)

My last 2 cents on the topic.....





There really are worse things in life to worry about than sexual orientation indeed...as long as we are loving, good individuals, I don't care....

The few that posted that do NOT agree with homosexuality, which is their right obviously........did not post anything in a negative way...with any disregard, (that I read) they just stated the fact that it goes against their morals.

The ONLY problem that I have with homosexuality.....or any hot topic for some individuals for that matter.....is when the claws DO come out....and instead of educating the people that do not agree with something.....(IF they feel like being educated)......derogatory remarks are made like.....

Think About It...

Thank God I'm Not Your Child

Do You Understand

Well I took them to be that way anyway.....so maybe I'm not the only one who did....

Sincerely tho......help educate in a kind way...maybe that will help....there are obviously many hurt feelings about the topic as I have heard the same tone about the same topic.....in different situations Off this board.

Just a thought.


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## Sonya (Jun 6, 2008)

I don't have children so it would be hard for me to answer the question. I would have to know the parents (gay or straight) really well as others said.

I would like to think that I would not have a problem with it, although I know my husband would. He was brought up in a very strict Lutheran household, and he was taught no toleration what so ever of anyone different than himself. He has lightened up a bit over the years. I think many straight people believe that homesexuals have many partners and sleep around. I do believe this is the medias fault, for portraying things that way.

I will be honest to say, that no I would not want my child to be gay, it is not an easy life, people always judging you and some not accepting.

Although I do not agree with the lifestyle (is it a choice, who knows?), I am not judge and jury, nor is anyone else that is walking on this earth. I try to treat everyone the same until they give me reason not to and being gay isn't one of them.

That being said, yes, I would let my child stay over....but it might cause a divorce. (Good thing we don't have kids)







> The ONLY problem that I have with homosexuality.....or any hot topic for some individuals for that matter.....is when the claws DO come out....and instead of educating the people that do not agree with something.....(IF they feel like being educated)......derogatory remarks are made like.....
> Think About It...
> 
> Thank God I'm Not Your Child
> ...



I agree 100%. Attacking someone is not going to make them agree/see your position.


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## bingo (Jun 6, 2008)

My children have and do spend the night at homes with same sex couples. It is not a problem for me at all. I do not have any requests like they cannot show affection or kiss. They are a loving couple and have no need to hide it or feel shameful. I would expect them to not hump on the couch but I would expect that of any adults who are responsible for watching children.


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## Reijel's Mom (Jun 6, 2008)

bingo said:


> I would expect them to not hump on the couch but I would expect that of any adults who are responsible for watching children.


Just doing my AM forum check in, and oh my gosh did this give me the giggles!


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## Matt73 (Jun 6, 2008)

Sorry if I came across harshly. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. I didn't mean to attack anyone. I just got frustrated.


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## Jill (Jun 6, 2008)

Matt,

I can understand how you feel. I think I'd feel the same if I were gay. Since who you are attracted to is really not anything anyone ever sat down and debated "which way to go", I just can't understand why people keep thinking it is a choice or a moral issue. Who knows, maybe some of the people most upset with gays are the ones who did make themselves decide to be "straight" _(yeah, okay... guess I'm joining you in the hotseat now, Matt!)_.

Jill


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## Ashley (Jun 6, 2008)

> I just don't agree with their choice of lifestyle.


Its not a choice. The way I tell people to think about it is this.........Do you think people would chose a life that was full of, at times, guilt, shame, disrespect and just over all pain and struggle with society? I cant figure out anybody that woud purposely put themselves in this position.

I dont see Matt as "letting the claws out". I do fully understand him, and its, In my opionon, not something you really can understand the degree to which people feel/struggle unless you live the gay life or have close family/friends to basically live it with them.

I do respect everybodys opinions even if I dont agree with them. I am glad this has stayed with out fights, debates are ok.


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## Sonya (Jun 6, 2008)

> Sorry if I came across harshly. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. I didn't mean to attack anyone. I just got frustrated.


It is hard to please everyone...especially on such a subject. When I saw the header "Please no fights"....I had to laugh and of course had to read it...this is a very diverse group with alot of passionate people. It is hard to try and get your point across without getting frustrated...been there, done that, have the t-shirt!



> I was going to stay out of this ...but, as far as the comment Bingo made and then it put into quotations as funny.
> I thought that was rude and uncalled for


Sorry, I thought it was funny too! It was not referring to anyone in particular, it was a comment to lighten the mood of the thread. The internet is a funny thing...and I would never consider any forum a family forum, lets face it, the internet is not kid friendly...this forum is one of the most well-monitored forums I've been to, the moderators do a fantastic job of keeping it clean and respectable IMO.


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## Jill (Jun 6, 2008)

What I think is funny is that if Ashley hadn't put "please no fights" in the subject, I bet this thread would have gotten a small fraction of the replies! We all love to look in on a possible difference of opinions, just human nature


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## OhHorsePee (Jun 6, 2008)

Now, being gay does not make a person bad nor does it automatically make a person good either. I view parents as parents. If the home seemed to be a STABLE, clean non threatening environment then a child would be able to stay.

PS. I would not let my child stay in a home that had sex with Zebras.


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## Leeana (Jun 6, 2008)

> PS. I would not let my child stay in a home that had sex with Zebras.


What about picnic tables ? At a garage sale none the less! Next town over, about 10 miles. Believe it or not, it was on Jay Leno



. wow


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## txminipinto (Jun 6, 2008)

As someone who has had a homosexual relative (and I use the word "had" because he died from AIDS), I too, am very sensitive to those who have no compassion and are so closed minded to the facts. It is not a "lifestyle" nor is it a "choice". My cousin died a very lonely death because he was too afraid to come out about who he was. Very few in the family knew the real reasons. His mother didn't even know. And while it is a right to have the opinion that it is wrong to be this way, it is my right to be offended by anyone who says it is. So, Matt, I've got your back.





Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But no one is entitled to make someone else feel bad for something they can't help. It's not a disease, it's just who they are. I believe in God and I believe he is an all loving God, and I would hope that He would find it more repulsive of his "proclaimed followers" being so close hearted to others than to individuals of the same sex being together. But that's JMO.

And I agree, having sex with Zebras is wrong.


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## OhHorsePee (Jun 6, 2008)

Leeana said:


> > PS. I would not let my child stay in a home that had sex with Zebras.
> 
> 
> What about picnic tables ? At a garage sale none the less! Next town over, about 10 miles. Believe it or not, it was on Jay Leno
> ...


Was that ON a picnic table or TO a picnic table? Talk about a woody!


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## Sonya (Jun 6, 2008)

> Was that ON a picnic table or TO a picnic table? Talk about a woody!






Good one!

This topic has really strayed! No one is poking fun at the subject at hand here either so I hope no one gets their panties in a wad.


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## Ashley (Jun 6, 2008)

I agree Jill. By fighting I ment all out bashing like there has been in the past. NObody needs to get hurt by this.

Txminipinto----


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## Matt73 (Jun 6, 2008)

txminipinto said:


> As someone who has had a homosexual relative (and I use the word "had" because he died from AIDS), I too, am very sensitive to those who have no compassion and are so closed minded to the facts. It is not a "lifestyle" nor is it a "choice". My cousin died a very lonely death because he was too afraid to come out about who he was. Very few in the family knew the real reasons. His mother didn't even know. And while it is a right to have the opinion that it is wrong to be this way, it is my right to be offended by anyone who says it is. So, Matt, I've got your back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Carin.


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## Reijel's Mom (Jun 6, 2008)

LisaF. said:


> I was going to stay out of this ...but, as far as the comment Bingo made and then it put into quotations as funny.
> 
> I thought that was rude and uncalled for. This is a family forum with all ages reading.



Sorry, Lisa. I think it's ok to be lighthearted about things sometimes. I think this topic has actually remained pretty respectful. And in no way was I making fun of Ashley, and I'm pretty sure she's aware of that. I don't happen to think being homosexual is a choice, either. I'm a woman and all my life, starting when I was a kid, I liked BOYS. Never once had a crush on a girl. Can't imagine someone telling me someday "Renee, you now have to be with a woman". I suspect it's pretty much that way for most gay people - except they are obviously attracted to the same sex instead of the opposite. We are who we are.

That goes for individual sense of humor, as well.

I don't think badly of Matt that he reacted and commented, I think that is pretty understandable.


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## Ashley (Jun 6, 2008)

I missed the comment by bingo so I dont eve know what was said? Anybody care to tell me?


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## Indian*R*A*I*N*Dance (Jun 6, 2008)

_If_ i had a child, i wouldn't care what the parents were. Its there choice of life and theres nothing wrong with it. My brothers friend (havn't seen them in awhile though) his parents are lesbian. There really nice, his real mother was my tutor once.


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## Reijel's Mom (Jun 6, 2008)

bingo said:


> My children have and do spend the night at homes with same sex couples. It is not a problem for me at all. I do not have any requests like they cannot show affection or kiss. They are a loving couple and have no need to hide it or feel shameful. I would expect them to not hump on the couch but I would expect that of any adults who are responsible for watching children.




Here you are, Ashley.


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## Ashley (Jun 6, 2008)

Thats no big deal. And for the record they are 10 year old boys.


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## RockRiverTiff (Jun 6, 2008)

I've been thinking about this thread a lot this morning, and would like to hear more from the other side. Some of these belief systems are a bit complex for a child that might not otherwise judge on their own. Do you consider the other child's feelings when explaining your reasoning? I guess what I'm trying to say is, whether or not you agree with the other family's lifestyle, I would worry about a child's interpretation of what their parent is telling them, and what they might then repeat to their friend and other classmates. It's one thing to disagree with other parents, but I'd hate to see a child suffer for that. How do those of you that said no handle saying no?


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## alongman (Jun 6, 2008)

Can someone tell me what IS a normal family at this point? I see kids with one mom, one dad, two moms, two dads, step-parents, foster parents, etc... Kids today DO NOT see anything besides "family". It doesn't matter to them what the family is comprised of as long as there is SOMEONE there to care for them. It's the adults that have a hang-up about families who are different than their own.......... welcome to the future people.

If you're family is one that 1) has never argued, 2) is completely without any skeletons in your closet and, 3) feels so superior to another that anothers' lifestyle would dictate your friendship, then you keep your children home. PERIOD. Chances are that if ANYTHING happens to them while they are out of your site, it will be someone elses fault.



Jill said:


> I do respect everyone's opinion, but I will be happier when there is well documented, well publicized research and studies showing that being gay is not any more a choice than it is a choice to be straight. Hopefully when it's well known that it's the way a person is born _(and in my own opinion, the way God made them)_, people won't be as judgemental.


You wanted studies!!!! Here you go, have fun reading the mountains of studies, research papers, etc... that clearly document that there are DNA differences as well as brain structural differences in a homosexual versus straight person. Here's the link to a great place to start - http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1925


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## Jill (Jun 6, 2008)

Adam --

I know it is not a choice. What I meant is I'll be happy when "everyone" knows and the studies and research are more widely known and accepted by everyone. I already understand, but a lot of others don't.

Jill


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## Sonya (Jun 6, 2008)

Everyone keeps commenting on "choice"...does it really matter? If one is born that way or chooses....it really doesn't make a difference does it? It's still their life to do what they please as long as it's not harming others. Just as it is someone's right to not allow their child to stay at someone elses's house for "whatever" the reason may be.

It makes it sound like... oh my Gosh...he/she can't help the way they are (gay in this instance), they were born that way. That of course is not how I feel or anyone on this board I'm sure, but it just sounds that way.... If it's by choice or genetics, it really doesn't matter, it is everyone's right to find love and companionship with whomever it may be. But in the same instance, it's every parents right to choose who their children stay overnight with, even if others feel the reasons are unjustified.


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## Jill (Jun 6, 2008)

> Everyone keeps commenting on "choice"...does it really matter? If one is born that way or chooses....it really doesn't make a difference does it? It's still their life to do what they please as long as it's not harming others. Just as it is someone's right to not allow their child to stay at someone elses's house for "whatever" the reason may be.
> It makes it sound like... oh my Gosh...he/she can't help the way they are (gay in this instance), they were born that way. That of course is not how I feel or anyone on this board I'm sure, but it just sounds that way.... If it's by choice or genetics, it really doesn't matter, it is everyone's right to find love and companionship with whomever it may be. But in the same instance, it's every parents right to choose who their children stay overnight with, even if others feel the reasons are unjustified.


 Sonya --

To my way of thinking, it matters because you can disapprove of a person's choices and hold that against them (drugs, crimes, rude, etc.), but you shouldn't hold how they were born against them -- anymore than you should not like someone because of the color of their skin. That's how I look at it and why to my way of thinking, choice vs. gentics / biology is an important distinction.

Not that I would judge negatively if it was a _choice_. As long as it's not me or Harvey, I don't care who sleeps with who or what



But for people who are "upset" at the idea of who someone is gay is attacted to, if they could understand it's not a choice, maybe that would be a step towards accepting them for who they are, and how they have always been.

Jill


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## LisaF. (Jun 6, 2008)

Ashley...it was when Sonya said she laughed at your subject line. That is one thing that upset me because I think you were being serious and not wanting a fight out of this.

There was not only one comment that upset me there were a few. I think we could talk about this and keep it clean.


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## Jill (Jun 6, 2008)

I don't think Sonya meant she laughed at it in a bad or mean way at all. I took it to mean she was skeptical we'd keep it from becoming bitter (which we have, somewhat to my surprise as well). In the past, these threads spiral into mean / bitter fairly fast and this one hasn't at all in my opinion.


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## Relic (Jun 6, 2008)

When kids are around age 10 and haven't been sheltered from life l would think they have a fairly clear idea of what a gay couple means...my kids learned most all those things including where babies come from how there made names of drugs where and who sells and on and on all by the time they were that age and l didn't think they were old enough to have any of that info and some of it was pretty well out to lunch...but thats going back maybe 15 years also when things were not as open as now a days. My youngest daughters best friend from kindergarden is gay they have shared an apartment in town for the past 3 years and l like it that way l know she's safe. l have had a soft spot for him since he was a little guy and know about all the times he had a heck of a time with many a beating behind the school in the fields when he was known to be different...he is now an RCMP officer and has a recent new friend who is also with the RCMP. Some gays are very nasty even if you wouldn't want to be around or know them if they were straight just cause as people they are A holes and being gay make a point of letting you know how closed minded you are because they happen to be gay...l sure don't like them a lot and will cross the street if l see them coming


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## Sonya (Jun 6, 2008)

> Ashley...it was when Sonya said she laughed at your subject line


you took that totally wrong....Jill is correct. The "no fights" thing is what I was referring to...it's not often that people can have a debate on this forum without fighting and/or feelings getting hurt.

I was not at all poking fun at the subject matter at all...although I did find bingo's comment, the zebra, and picnic table comment funny which had nothing to do with Ashley's thread.

A little laughter could do some people good!


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## bingo (Jun 6, 2008)

LisaF. said:


> I was going to stay out of this ...but, as far as the comment Bingo made and then it put into quotations as funny.
> 
> I thought that was rude and uncalled for. This is a family forum with all ages reading.



Lisa F while I appreciate your opinion personally if my child is not old enough to read about sex, testicles, ovary's, young horses finishing the job before they get inside the mare and other subjects frequently talked about on this forum then they are not old enough to be on the Internet with no supervision!


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## Laura (Jun 6, 2008)

LisaF. said:


> I think this could have been a good topic...why it had to get out of hand and start with all the ..well..I won't even say. It is extremely rude and childish


[SIZE=12pt]I think some of the comments are HILARIOUS, some I agree with and others I won't comment on because I can't do so nicely.[/SIZE]

I do want to add that the 3 lesbian couples I have been and am VERY good friends with are the most stable, most understanding and LONGEST relationships I'm had the pleasure to witness.


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## Magic (Jun 6, 2008)

I have quite a few friends and aquaintances who are gay, and though the subject never came up when my children were younger of them having a sleep-over at a friend's who had gay parents, it would have been fine with me if, as others have said, I knew the people and knew them to be good parents.





I consider it none of my business what other people do behind closed bedroom doors, and I really don't WANT to, whether gay or straight or whatever.


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## Lisa Strass (Jun 6, 2008)

A slightly different perspective to the original question:

As a relatively young elemenatry aged child, I spent the night at a gay couple's house several times. Guess what - I had no idea at the time! I just thought my friend lived with her mom and her mom's friend. Yes, I was naive, but no big deal!



(My parents knew and filled me in many years later.)

Kids will usually ask the questions when they need an explanation.


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## OhHorsePee (Jun 6, 2008)

Oh geesh! Now come on. Who cares who is sleeping with whom as long as it's not with the one you are sleeping with? Do I think it is a choice to be gay? I dunno! I do think it is a choice whom you have sexual intercourse with whether it is male or female. Might not be feeling of contentment as it would be with whomever you were truely wanting BUT the act itself I would say is chosen. Does that make sence? That is like saying I would not CHOOSE to have sex with Mel Gibson. Actually I would choose to but since I am with Ron and we only have a queen size bed it would be crowded. How would I feel about being with a partner that is from the the Non-to-me desired sex? ICK! So if I choose to be happy and comfortable in my hetrosexual self am I to be looked down on? NAH! So why would a person look down on a homosexual person? *SHRUGS* Now, I do not believe slobbering all over a person in public is the thing to do whether a person is gay or straight.


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## LisaF. (Jun 6, 2008)

Bingo..that's your children...that's my children...( although my children are grown)....but, what about the parents that don't care what they do? What if a 6 year old is looking up horses and came on this thread. ( believe me 6 year olds know how to work a computer..you should see my nephew)

What if a child is confused and reading this thread? I think the converstation would have been better without some of the not so clean talk..jokes..however you want to put it.

I think post like Adam's is what we need.

Or just stick to the question Ashley added. ( Even though I didn't) I did stay out of it until I seen those comments. Although I was reading because it was an interesting topic.

Sonya, I apologize I took it you were laughing at Ashley. I don't like to see anyone laughed at for any reason. So, I am sorry I took that wrong.

This is off subject ..but, I really wish someone could explain this to me. I am not being sarcastic I am truly serious. People say it is not a choice ...what about the people that are attracted to both sexes? Now, that is where I get confused.

Saying that...I feel like it is morally wrong...but, I also feel like GOD Loves us all.

Saying that I have faults just like anyone. No one is perfect.


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## Jill (Jun 6, 2008)

LisaF. said:


> This is off subject ..but, I really wish someone could explain this to me. I am not being sarcastic I am truly serious. People say it is not a choice ...what about the people that are attracted to both sexes? Now, that is where I get confused.


I think that those people also don't choose so much. I assume you, like me, are attracted to men... but I can find all types of men attractive. Does that make sense? People who are bi-sexual I guess find both sexes attractive.

I could say something about them having twice as many options as those who only like men, or only like women, but not sure everyone would get I'm trying to lighten the mood


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## alongman (Jun 6, 2008)

Jill said:


> Adam --
> 
> I know it is not a choice. What I meant is I'll be happy when "everyone" knows and the studies and research are more widely known and accepted by everyone. I already understand, but a lot of others don't.
> 
> Jill


Jill -

I doubt that there will ever be an "everyone" consensus on the topic of sexuality or the things that go along with it (kids, marriage, sleep-overs, etc...). Even with the mountains of documentation, people will always be able to find the exception that makes it wrong or socially unacceptable. The only thing that has changed from elementary school when we said, "it's my game and I make the rules....so there", is that now as adults, we still claim to make the rules about what is right and wrong expecting people to follow our "normal" lives.

I never once have asked people to be supportive of my lifestyle - I have presented myself as I am with the hopes that they would see me for who I am. I don't introduce myself as, "Hi, I'm Adam - I'm gay". Instead, I let people see all the other things I am first - an avid horseman, a medical professional, a caring and compassionate person, a brother, son, uncle, grandson. A person with many interests including the outdoors, watching movies, exploring the dining options in Minneapolis, theater and working out. Oh, by the way, I'm gay.

I hope that if people become comfortable with me for being ME, then it won't matter, if years from now, our children want to hang out and spend time together. I'm just me.


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## Jill (Jun 6, 2008)

Adam, you don't need to convince me. I'm already on your side


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## alongman (Jun 6, 2008)

Jill said:


> LisaF. said:
> 
> 
> > This is off subject ..but, I really wish someone could explain this to me. I am not being sarcastic I am truly serious. People say it is not a choice ...what about the people that are attracted to both sexes? Now, that is where I get confused.
> ...


I just want to comment on this - I'm not attracted to all men. I have a very specific type of person that I'm attracted to (I can send details if you want or know of someone who would fit the bill



) - they must be physically attractive to me and an incredibly sweet and genuine person on the inside too. I think it's interesting when guys get shy around me for "fear" that they are being hit on. Believe me, 99% of them are NOT. Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I want to sleep with EVERY man. I have several friends who are bisexual, they find certain qualities in both genders attractive - again, wouldn't sleep with EVERY man and woman that they ran into.

Jill -

I know you're on my side. It's just a topic that I'm passionate about. If someone wants to not like me, thats fine! There are people I don't care for either. But, let it be for WHO I am, not who I choose to be in a relationship with.

Adam


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## LisaF. (Jun 6, 2008)

Adam...You made me laugh.....I like you already and I have never met you.

I still can't wrap my mind around bi-sexuals. Yes, I am attracted to men ( I have been married for 26 years). Give me George Cloony and my husband and I may have to have a little talk...LOL.

I agree with you Adam...if I was in the dating scene...there would be men I would be attracted to and some I would not. I still can't wrap my mind around how you ( not you) just people that are could be attracted to both. Maybe I will never understand that I don't know.

I am sorry...I should have stayed out of this...because I don't know what I am talking about.

All I do know is God is our Judge ( not people). God is the only one that knows our true hearts ( not anyone in this world does).

God loves all of us and gives us Free Will

This is my oppinion anyway.


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## kaykay (Jun 6, 2008)

I could care less what someone's sexual preference is. And gosh we do hug and cuddle when the kids have friends over (and been married going on 24 years) When did that become "not normal" LOL. We dont make out but we do have PDA and I wouldnt have it any other way.

Totally off topic but

Adam Im so excited as you are judging here in Ohio soon. Im hoping to make it so I can meet you!!

Kay


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## alongman (Jun 6, 2008)

I hope so too Kay Kay...... that's probably been one of the best parts of judging - finally putting faces with the names.

I do think that hugging or being somewhat friendly with your partner is "normal" but also agree that it shouldn't be anything more in front of children than what you would do in, say, front of your grandmother.


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## Reijel's Mom (Jun 6, 2008)

alongman said:


> I just want to comment on this - I'm not attracted to all men. I have a very specific type of person that I'm attracted to (I can send details if you want or know of someone who would fit the bill
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## minimama (Jun 6, 2008)

This just hits way too close to home and is such a hard subject for me. I would also go on a person to person basis. I know way too many people that are just not good and would not allow my kids to even go visit at there house without me there too.

But, I was on the other side and was the child asking to have the friend over. My dad was gay. I only had one friend that would come over. Parents were not allowed to know about dad and "Uncle". My very best friend would have nothing to do with me when my dad came out and left us. She was convinced that it was contagious. See why this is a tough subject for me?

That said, I am still waiting on Matt and his partner to come visit and stay with us. I promise not to freak you out by humping on the couch! OH!





Oh, and yes, I do have small children. I wish this was not an issue and in truth wish gay did not exist, as in , everyone was straight. I think it would be so much easier on everyone just to be the same, but, this is our life and our world as we live in it. Not accepting it will not make it better or make it go away. And, I would certainly love and accept my child if they ended up being gay. I would love them and enjoy them for just who they are. Being gay culd never change the fact that they are my beautiful child anymore than it changed the fact that he was my wonderful dad.


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## Matt73 (Jun 6, 2008)

minimama said:


> This just hits way too close to home and is such a hard subject for me. I would also go on a person to person basis. I know way too many people that are just not good and would not allow my kids to even go visit at there house without me there too.
> 
> But, I was on the other side and was the child asking to have the friend over. My dad was gay. I only had one friend that would come over. Parents were not allowed to know about dad and "Uncle". My very best friend would have nothing to do with me when my dad came out and left us. She was convinced that it was contagious. See why this is a tough subject for me?
> 
> ...


Awwww.



Thanks Stacy! You are a sweety. My sister came out after having two kids. They have both adjusted well to the "surprise". She is married to a wonderful woman now and is so happy. I'm sure if you were a kid now with your dad being gay, you would have had an easier time. Kudos to you for dealing with it and still loving your pops! We will definitely meet up one day! Can't wait!


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## Brandi* (Jun 6, 2008)

I would like to address this statement. And no this is not directed at you Adam. This statement just made me start thinking about my feelings on this subject.

_"I don't introduce myself as, "Hi, I'm Adam - I'm gay"._

I was raised pentecostal and it was drilled into me that the "gay" lifestyle was not how God intended things to be. Having said that, these days I find myself questioning everything I was ever taught. I like to think of myself as an accepting and open minded individual. I don't know if it's right or if it's wrong and really, it's not my place to say what it is. The only time I get annoyed is when I meet someone who is gay and they make it a point to "let me know" they are. I don't walk around saying "Hi I'm Brandi and I'm straight". Nor do I walk around with a "non rainbow" flag, shirt, belt or anything else in order to let people know that I'm not gay. So in that respect I really don't like it when a gay person feels the need to "broadcast" their preference. Sometimes I feel that these individuals that are "broadcasting" are lacking attention in their life and are just really trying to fill that void any way they can. I do not think this is the case with all gay people, but I have seen quite a few that prove my point. One of my best friends in high school was gay. I never knew he was at the time but when I found him on myspace recently it was clear and he had even posted that he is. Do I think less of him? Absolutely NOT! I loved him dearly and still do!

I just feel, if your comfortable with yourself and who you are then you don't need to constantly be trying to get acceptance from people you don't even know.


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## Matt73 (Jun 6, 2008)

Brandi* said:


> I would like to address this statement. And no this is not directed at you Adam. This statement just made me start thinking about my feelings on this subject.
> 
> _"I don't introduce myself as, "Hi, I'm Adam - I'm gay"._
> 
> ...



I don't "advertise" it either. However, I'm not ashamed to tell the truth about myself. Just curious. How do you see someone saying they're gay as trying to gain acceptance? If anything, the person faces a very real risk of rejection and, at worst, physical violence. Now, having said that, I was very blessed to have been born in the largest, most accepting Canadian city. I had a very positive experience. But I've travelled a lot. There are many places on the planet that think that being gay=target. Also, I have some very flamboyant friends and I have gay friends that one would never guess were gay. They are all great people.


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## ChrystalPaths (Jun 6, 2008)

Well I am glad my Zebra remark was met with smiles but I was serious. I am co-raising my grandson and I know many good people and many not so good. I can't remember asking what they enjoy privately..that said I think this sad ole world needs a bit more courtesy, kindness and love in all colors, shapes, sizes and types. I asked Matt to take my horses if I died a while back because as a Human being I felt he was a good one. I still do and his preference for partner had nothing to do with it.


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## Brandi* (Jun 6, 2008)

_"Just curious. How do you see someone saying they're gay as trying to gain acceptance?"_

I guess it's because I live about an hour and a half away from San Francisco. There are a lot of people around here that make "coming out" their sole purpose in life everyday. I just feel that if gays want to be accepted just as "straight" people are then they have to stop drawing so much attention to themselves. (As stated in previous post, this is not directed at ALL gay people, just some) Like I said before, "straight" people don't run around telling people that they like to sleep with men or women every chance they get.

If someone tells me they are gay after we have started getting to know each other I would not think that they were trying to gain acceptance. I would assume they were wanting me to know them better. The issue for me comes in when I meet someone and right away they tell me they are gay and ask me if I have a problem with it. That, to me is trying to pick a fight. I almost feel like they are wanting me to say "Yes I have a problem with it. Of course I don't because I really don't care either way. I have had this happen both at work and at school. Unless I am getting to know someone really well, frankly I really don't want to know their personal business. If someone feels secure within themselves they won't feel the need to find out if someone is ok with how they are.

Again, maybe I have encountered this more because of where I live. I know I have met very nice people that are gay and seem very comfortable in their skin.

I hope no one is offended by what I have said here. It is only my feelings and thoughts on the subject. It is not written in stone.



Matt73 said:


> Brandi* said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to address this statement. And no this is not directed at you Adam. This statement just made me start thinking about my feelings on this subject.
> ...


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## Matt73 (Jun 6, 2008)

SageNapala said:


> Well I am glad my Zebra remark was met with smiles but I was serious. I am co-raising my grandson and I know many good people and many not so good. I can't remember asking what they enjoy privately..that said I think this sad ole world needs a bit more courtesy, kindness and love in all colors, shapes, sizes and types. I asked Matt to take my horses if I died a while back because as a Human being I felt he was a good one. I still do and his preference for partner had nothing to do with it.


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## New_Image (Jun 6, 2008)

Just my two cents on the comment of "Gay is not a choice, just as you can't choose to be strait" or however it was put...

In my home being gay was not even a thought of option had I awoke one day and decided I loved girls. It would go against what I believe, what my family believes, how I was raised and most importantly what the Bible says.

(Although let me tell you, sometimes I think it would be EASIER to be in a relationship with a female!



)

But I believe there is always a choice in the matter and I chose to follow God.

I have a friend who is gay so no one get the wrong impression here, I guess with him I've just left it at you believe what you believe and I believe my way.


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## alongman (Jun 6, 2008)

New_Image said:


> In my home being gay was not even a thought of option had I awoke one day and decided I loved girls. It would go against what I believe, what my family believes, how I was raised and most importantly what the Bible says.
> 
> But I believe there is always a choice in the matter and I chose to follow God.


First, I think we have hugely strayed from Ashley's original posting. I apologize Ashley - I believe you are a good mother-figure to your son. He couldn't be more lucky. You're an amazing person and I would encourage anyone to let their child go to your house. Not because of anything dealing with your sexuality but because you are an incredibly responsible person who would have a childs best interest in mind.

Secondly, I was certainly hoping that religion would not come into play as this is a touchy subject with me. I was raised in the church and still choose to go. My entire family goes - no one has dared to say that because I am gay I have chosen NOT to follow a life in the church. How pretentious!!!

I love the following article - if you accurately *translate* the Bible verses, you will find some interesting things. Not all translations are accurate you may understand. Read on:

_1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV)._

While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice. Even others argue that the two root words in arsenokoite are the same terms used to prohibit any premarital or extramarital sexual relations, so they may not refer to homosexual relations alone.


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## tagalong (Jun 7, 2008)

> There are a lot of people around here that make "coming out" their sole purpose in life everyday.


I do not mind what people decide to do/announce for themsleves.... but the need some have - especially the media when it comes to celebrities - to out others (even if they are not gay but only suspected of being so) bothers me. The need to slap on labels. "That One is gay - and oh - you know This One is gay.... I mean - c'mon - look at him!! You can tell!"

HUH?

Some of the most "macho" guys I ever knew were gay - and went against all the supposed stereotypes. And some dear male friends who fit most of the accepted stereotypes were straight. Go figure.

If I had kids - I would have no isses whatsoever with them staying at a gay couple's house. Love is what makes a family... and IMO that love does not have to fit within select parameters.



> I could say something about them having twice as many options as those who only like men, or only like women, but not sure everyone would get I'm trying to lighten the mood


You could always say - they would have the best of both worlds...







> I do think that hugging or being somewhat friendly with your partner is "normal" but also agree that it shouldn't be anything more in front of children than *what you would do in, say, front of your grandmother*.


Bolding mine. Well, I guess that everyone would sit around and bake cookies then



- because my little Swedish grandma would blush if you even hugged. Even if you hugged _her._





That same little grandma once approached me... in apparent agony. Wanting to ask me a question - and yet not being able to say it. She was soooo uncomfortable. But after some stilted conversation I could see where she was going. My cousin had come out to the family - and introduced his partner - about a month ealrier. So now dear little Grandma had looked around and noticed that I was the oldest cousin and not married and there was no boyfriend in sight... and well.....

So she would not have to ask The Question - I told her that no, I was not gay. Just unlucky. Or stupid. Or both.








She was _soooo_ relieved. Not that I was not gay - but that she had not had to ask me.


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## FairytailGlennMinis (Jun 7, 2008)

I have watched this a bit and am so glad to see people being mostly civil. One of my mother's best friends was gay and I was probably about 8 when it hit me. I never thought about it really--it was like "and??" it didn't change who he was. I know my "uncle KC" kept my sister and I for weekends from time to time and we would go to the park, go out to eat, play catch...it was never made into an issue. I think it is the parents that make it an issue TO the kids...so why give your kids a complex?

I have a big problem with churches telling us that this is evil and a massive sin. I see hiding who you are and lying to yourself and others to be a bigger crime. My best friend from high school who I love dearly is gay...I have always known it and we have discussed it many many times. He hides it and acts macho...was even a real "womanizer". sigh. He has been married for about 5 years now and has a one year old little girl. He is still gay and still lying...that is a much bigger problem as I see it. It is a problem for him...for his wife that has no clue (and thinks he just has low libido) and for the guy he is still in love with as well. He is trying so hard to "not be gay"....isn't that deception worse? Wouldn't THAT be a bigger crime against God? He wants a family and a steady life and he sees that this is the only way to do that. It makes me very, very sad.

1 mommy and 1 daddy families are no longer the majority "norm"...let's teach our kids to look at character instead, huh?

To the original post--If the people were those I trusted then I wouldn't even consider their sexual orientation.


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## Matt73 (Jun 7, 2008)

New_Image said:


> Just my two cents on the comment of "Gay is not a choice, just as you can't choose to be strait" or however it was put...
> 
> In my home being gay was not even a thought of option had I awoke one day and decided I loved girls. It would go against what I believe, what my family believes, how I was raised and most importantly what the Bible says.
> 
> ...


You can't wake up one day and "decide to be gay". It's not an option one chooses. You can be gay and follow God. There are many gay pastors. There is an all inclusive United church in Toronto that is predominantly gay with a gay pastor. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be.


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## SammyL (Jun 7, 2008)

Granted, I am only 18. BUT, if I had children, and I knew the couple well it would not be a problem for me.

My uncle is gay, and his chosen life partner is a large black man. It is rather funny to see a skinny white guy at Darryl's family reunions.

But I love both of them, despite sexual preference.

I learned my uncle was gay when I was about 10 or 11. My mother told me, and I looked at her, and said, "I just thought it was because he couldn't get a date!"





Plus, a very good friend of mine, who was my date to prom is gay. In fact, many of my friends are either gay or bisexual. It doesn't matter to me, I love them all the same.

Another thing, if I let my child stay over there, I would hope that PDA would be discreet or nonexisistant while the said friend is over, just as it is at my house.


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## Ashley (Jun 7, 2008)

> You can't wake up one day and "decide to be gay". It's not an option one chooses. You can be gay and follow God. There are many gay pastors. There is an all inclusive United church in Toronto that is predominantly gay with a gay pastor. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be.


I am not big into religion but my other half is. We have a church here like that as well. Everybody is allowed there, but it is majority gay, the one pastor is a married lesbian women. I am not sure if the guy is gay or not.


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## New_Image (Jun 7, 2008)

I wasn't going to reply again as I don't want to make this a fight or go further off subject but since its been replied to several times I'll just say this:

I am not one to pick apart God's word. I believe what it says and do not tip toe around things as if they do not apply to me, nor do I twist something out of context to make myself believe I'm not in the wrong.

If you read verses such as Hebrews 13:4, 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Romans 1:26-27 - and many more - It seems pretty black and white to me.

JMO - Of course, I'm under the same mentality of waiting for sex after marriage.

Sorry Ashley.


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## ChrystalPaths (Jun 7, 2008)

Good values Nik, waiting is good but let us remember it was human males who translated stories within the bible from God. I am a very spiritual person but I also remember that for every good there is a not good, for every right a wrong and it is in the translation and ultimate understand "each" person absorbs from books such as the Bible or others of other faiths. The best way of living to is go forward in a good way and allow each his or her own path without judgement..it is Spirit/God's job top do that.


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## Boss Mare (Jun 7, 2008)

Jill said:


> LisaF. said:
> 
> 
> > This is off subject ..but, I really wish someone could explain this to me. I am not being sarcastic I am truly serious. People say it is not a choice ...what about the people that are attracted to both sexes? Now, that is where I get confused.
> ...


I am a bi-sexual. I have had two very serious relationships with men, one of them lasting five years! Even being with a man, it didn't stop my eyes from wondering occasionally to a woman I found attractive. It wasn't by choice.

Want to talk about choice, I made a mistake of being with my one of my ex's, ex girlfriends.. Now that was a bad choice!





My family grew up very conservative.. with no exposure to gays. I grew up being told it was 'wrong', etc. No one in my family is gay.. I am. Did I decide this? NO!

When I met my Girlfriend, the hardest thing I had to do was tell my parents. I lived out of my truck until they finally came around..

Now, My GF and I have been together well over a year and we built a house and are living happy together.. On my parent's property! They've opened their eyes and they see, I am Michelle no matter if I am with a man or woman.

Oh sure, it would be so easy.. especially being a bi-sexual and all to be with a man, settle down and do the whole fenced in yard with a dog and a swingset. Then maybe society would say I am normal.

It wasn't a CHOICE to fall in love with who I did.

I love my life. I love her.


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## horseplay (Jun 7, 2008)

Sexual preference makes no difference to me, if I knew them and they were good people and I trusted them to take excellent care of my child, it wouldn't be a problem at all. That said, I also believe nature "intended" all things to be w/the opposite sex, same sex can not reproduce, back to basics I guess.


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## Laura (Jun 7, 2008)

SageNapala said:


> Good values Nik, waiting is good but let us remember it was* human males who translated stories within the bible* from God. .


AMEN to that!


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## alongman (Jun 7, 2008)

horseplay said:


> That said, I also believe nature "intended" all things to be w/the opposite sex, same sex can not reproduce, back to basics I guess.


LOL... someone needs to tell one of my geldings - his best friends are all mares and he tends to brood over one of the other geldings. They do everything together and fret when they are apart. Also, if you look at nature, there are the not-so-clear lines of stag bands in horses and the drake-groups of ducks. Maybe it's a way to keep the population under check.


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## Jill (Jun 7, 2008)

New_Image said:


> I am not one to pick apart God's word. I believe what it says and do not tip toe around things as if they do not apply to me, nor do I twist something out of context to make myself believe I'm not in the wrong.
> 
> If you read verses such as Hebrews 13:4, 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Romans 1:26-27 - and many more - It seems pretty black and white to me.


Don't forget Matthew 7:1 -- Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Besides, I do not believe in a God who would want a person to spend their life unhappy and without true love.


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## Matt73 (Jun 7, 2008)

Jill said:


> New_Image said:
> 
> 
> > I am not one to pick apart God's word. I believe what it says and do not tip toe around things as if they do not apply to me, nor do I twist something out of context to make myself believe I'm not in the wrong.
> ...


Amen to that Jill


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## Mona (Jun 7, 2008)

No, I would certainly not stop my children from spending a night at a friend's if the parents were gay. As most everyone else has said, it is the people themselves that are the deciding factor, not their sexual preferences.

As for the PDA question, I would not be concerned with that either. First off, if I were letting my child stay there, it would be because I trusted the parents and felt they were good people, capable of making good decisions. I don't think they would do this. A little kiss in passing, or a kiss and/or hug goodbye is fine. No, I would not want to see it go any further than that in front of the kids, and I am sure they too would not want that.

As to how the kids may react...I think if they are young enough, they would not even understand that the parents ARE gay...as one person here said happened to her while growing up. And if they are old enough to understand that they are, and they saw each other kiss or hug, they would likely have the same reaction as they would to seeing their friends straight parents doing the same thing, and that would be something like EWWWWW....GROSS!



Kids are just like that.

I think in most cases, how a child reacts to a situation or people will be an example of how their parents feel in regards to that same situation. If they are raised it is wrong, then to the child, it is. If they are raised it is OK, they will likely accept it easier.

I too have had friends that are gay. When I raised and showed dogs for many years, I was welcomed to stay the weekends in the homes of a couple different pairs...men, and women. They were all very nice, friendly people that made me feel comfortable in their homes. I also had my young daughter there with me staying, and she too accepted everything and was never shocked by anything.

I also have some personal family experience with a gay brother. I always KNEW he was gay while we were growing up even though he never would admit it. And yes, as a rotten younger sister, I would call him names because of it, but it was not meant in the way that I held it against him, only the way a sister would call a brother any other name to make him mad!

He moved to Toronto for awhile, and I know it was to "find himself". He later moved to Vancouver, BC. Both of these cities are well-known for being very heavily populated with gay people. He lived in Vancouver for the rest of his life, where he later died of AIDS.

I KNOW how hard it was for him to find some acceptance. He was so confused and troubled by being who he was, and knowing what was expected of him, that he hit the drug scene for awhile. Thank God, he was able to stop that after he reallized he was loved by many for who he was.

My parents were divorced when I was only 14. My Dad disowned my brother, and never did accept things. Even after my brother died, my Dad still showed no emotion, and I cannot believe how sickening that is for a parent to disown their child, let alone over something like that!

My Mom had a hard time with it too, and she too kind of disowned him for awhile, but I was able to slowly bring her around to seeing that no matter what, he was still her son, still the same child that she so lovingly raised all those years. I talked my brother into coming home to our small town for a visit...he had not been home in years. I am so glad he came. We had such a good vivit, and it was what took my Mom and him to come together again.

He had told me on the phone that he was HIV positive, and he made me promise not to tell my Mom. I was just sick to learn that, and even moreso to know my Mom would not know. I begged him to tell her. We (my Mom, my sister and myself) went out to Vancouver to visit him the Fall before he died. He promised me he would tell my Mom and sister at that time, and sure enough, he did. Thank God for that, because he died the following Spring. I love my brother, and I cannot express strongly enough what a strong person I think he was to have gone through all he did. I witnessed over the years the trials and tribulations he faced fighting against himself with his identity, both while we were growing up, and once he was grown. And then in the end, he wanted to be "alone". He would not allow us to come and help him...to care for him. He would not accept the medical help available to him either, as he had friends that had gone that route, and he saw how they suffered in the long run by prolonging things. He knew what was coming, and accepted it, and in my eyes, he was a very brave person.

Ashley, I am sorry, I know I got way off track here, but I just wanted to share my personal experience of why I feel gay people are just the same as any others. They ARE PEOPLE, and they needed to be treated as PEOPLE, and not treated as "gays"! They can have have huge hearts and are so often hurt so deeply, even (and especially) by the ones they are supposed to be closest to.


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## Matt73 (Jun 7, 2008)

Mona, thank you so much for that -not from me, but on behalf of all gay, lesbian, trans, bi, etc-. I, as well, am well acquainted with HIV; a few of my very close friends have it. Thankfully, they are doing well -one has had it for well over 15 years and is thriving-; meds are so much better nowadays. I am so sorry about your brother. But I'm glad you and your mom made peace with him before he died; I'm sure your mom is glad for that too.

You said it better than anyone yet! Again, thank you. So eloquent


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## susanne (Jun 7, 2008)

It is said that all human response is based upon love or fear.

I choose to respond out of love.


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## Ashley (Jun 8, 2008)

Ok so Im not sure if its the long hours of hanging sheet rock, mudding and tape or what but that post Mona, made me kind of emotinal. It hit a few things right on the head!

Just to know, we had 2 boys stay here. ONe was the neighbor, one was another kid I have never seen before. Both were good, didnt seem to have any issues, and there were no question.


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## alongman (Jun 8, 2008)

Ashley, it's not just the dry-walling that has made you tear up reading Monas' post. It was truly the most well-written thing I have seen in a long time. I teared up at first, then realized what a brave family ALL of you are. Your brother, Mona, for enduring what he did. You for being supportive, trust-worthy and loving. And, your mother, who realized that he was her son, not for whom he loved but for who loved him.

I know my family is very supportive and will be no matter what choices I make in my life. I'm so glad to not have had to endure the seclusion and isolation issues like many of my friends have had (or have chosen) to do. I too, have several friends who are HIV positive. It's not a bad person disease, it's a disease that needs to be more recognized throughout entire cultures, not just the gay one.

I'm glad the overnight stay went well....... I knew you would have nothing to worry about!


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## Ashley (Jun 8, 2008)

They keep themselves busy, we were working on the basement........It seems to never end OH! Kids were good, however the neighbor kid worries me.


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## LisaF. (Jun 8, 2008)

Mona..your thread brought tears to my eyes also. I already knew about some of it.

Your brother was a very strong man and for that you should be proud ( as I am so sure you are).

I have two children and three grand-children. Althought some of the issues still confuse me. I CAN'T even imagine DISOWNING a child or grand-child for ANYTHING.

I hope I didn't say anything about your dad that hurt your feelings that was not my intention. I just wish your dad would have came around for your brothers sake.

I know your mother has to be grateful that you helped her understand and accept it more.

I am so sorry about your brother, but thankful he had a sister like you.


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## Jill (Jun 8, 2008)

Mona, your post was very moving. It should really strike a chord with anyone who takes the time to read what you have said.


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## ChrystalPaths (Jun 8, 2008)

susanne said:


> It is said that all human response is based upon love or fear.
> 
> I choose to respond out of love.



Well said Susanne, but Mona, that was the most heartfelt tender post and I was deeply touched by it. I am thinking this entire thread may well be helping some one or more with feelings from both sides and the hopes that they will come to terms with those feelings and have a positive move on....

WE are human, to need love is like needing air, to find it is a gift from whomever it is you find to share it with.


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## OhHorsePee (Jun 8, 2008)

Very beautiful post, Mona! I have a friend whom I knew for 13 years before she came out to me. She even had me fixing her up with guys. She would only date them one time though, no matter what. A bunch of us figured out what was going on but did not say anything to her because we thought she didn't want us to know. She ended up attempting suicide when her partner left her. While she was in the hospital I told her flat out that I knew and so did a bunch of us. It ended up letting her have the courage to be herself. But isn't it sad that it took her attempting to kill herself before we had the courage to tell her we knew.


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## kaykay (Jun 9, 2008)

Bard im sorry but your post is too graphic and crude. I really think some of that has no place in this conversation. Just my opinion!

Kay


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## horseplay (Jun 9, 2008)

Mona, too keep it short your post was great as for Bards post



, maybe it was early and you weren't thinking? or maybe thinking too much, yikes!


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## nootka (Jun 9, 2008)

I am crying, too, thinking of Mona's brother and the isolation he must have felt at a time when he needed his family's love more than ever.

My step-sister died of AIDS in 1991...I miss her.

Mona, I'm sorry you lost your brother...and even sorrier for the misery he must have felt, but why would his parents his father most of all treat him that way (my grandfather did the same to my uncle, too...uncle ended up killing himself). Not asking you, just empathizing.

Thanks for your post...glad the sleepover went well, Ashley.

Liz


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## Ashley (Jun 9, 2008)

No neither complained. ONe boy was the neighbor, who litterally is about 100 ft from our house. The other is down the road a few miles. Both parents are nice. The neighbors parents.........well the mom is better then the dad.

The boy........he shows some signs of extream emotional issues as well as some mental issues. I good kid, but has some issues.


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## Bard (Jun 10, 2008)

ROFL- did my post actually get deleted? Geez... so much for "sharing opinions". Delete me, too, please.


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## tagalong (Jun 10, 2008)

> WE are human, to need love is like needing air, to find it is a gift from whomever it is you find to share it with.


Amen to that.






*Bard * - it seems that I missed your post.... it must have been a doozy to get sucked into The Void.

Sometimes it is a good idea to adjust your words/tone to the particular feel of a thread... just a thought.

*Mona* what a wonderful tribute to your brother. A good friend of mine succumbed to AIDS - also in Vancouver - many years ago.

I'll call them David & Bob... I thought I knew these guys. They were devoted to each other. Loving. Gentle. Bob had had a cancer scare and David had stood by him every step of the way. They were part of a large circle of friends (some gay, some not) that traveled back and forth between Edmonton & Vancouver... we laughed and cried and worked and played together. We were all _closelikethis_ - even though some were based in Vancouver & some in Edmonton. No matter - I was younger and carefree and Vancouver was but a short flight away!

Life was grand. Life was good. Then reality began to chink away at our happy little tribe...

David had AIDS. He smiled. He did not want us to fuss. Screw that - we fussed. Not enough to fluster him - or so that he would notice... and we were so glad that he had Bob at his side.

Or not.

David's family from Back East rallied around him - even his dad who had had problems accepting Dave's Not A Choice at first...

Bob. Within a couple of weeks he told Dave that he was moving out of their lovely townhouse on the water - and taking most of the furniture with him. He even took their little dog. Fortunately for David - the townhouse was in his name. Bob announced that he wanted nothing further to do with David - and that he disgusted him. He was seen at the clubs by outraged friends partying and announcing that he was a free man....

We tried to rationalize... Bob was scared... Bob was having trouble accepting all this... Bob would come around.

Bob proved us all wrong. And as friend after friend tried to talk to him - tried to understand... and then turned away in sadness - Bob crossed us off His List... one by one.

I was the last one. His parting words to me were that he had better things to do than sit around and be a nurse to That.

For some, love is simply something you say automatically out of the corner of your mouth as you go out the door - _love ya!_ And nothing more.

It is not only family that can disown you - sometimes it is those who understand you and know you the best.

David died of AIDS, surrounded by family and friends... knowing he was loved.

_Technically,_ he died of AIDS. I think what truly finished him off was a broken heart... and the betrayal of someone he loved.

I miss him. Even after all these years. I can still see myself standing on their deck with David, watching the sun set on the water... sipping chardonnay... laughing...

Bob? No one in the tribe ever heard from him after David left us. Fine by me.

_Friends - and love - can be fleeting. Cherish them while you have them._


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## nootka (Jun 10, 2008)

Aw, tagalong, that is such a sad story...no matter the players in it, it is sad and David must have a special kind of heck reserved for him to have behaved in such a way.

I can't imagine being that disgusting of a person.

While we have wandered off-topic I think it's clear that the majority of us are at least accepting. I would hope the trend is toward peaceful tolerance if not open-armed acceptance.

As it's been mentioned repeatedly, unless it's your immediate partner, it doesn't matter their gender of choice for a mate.

Liz


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## RobinRTrueJoy (Jun 10, 2008)

No problem here. There are straight people I would not want children near. Has nothing to do with sexual preference.If they are good people then fine.

Being gay does not make a person a pedophile. Has nothing to do with it.

Someday they will find medical evidence that makes a person gay, a gene or something. Life is hard enough, no one chooses to be gay. People may deny it or hide it, until they can't anymore, but no one TURNS gay. No one can TURN a person gay. Nothing can make a person turn gay.

I have a gay nephew, who married his life partner and has a more "normal" marriage than a lot of people I know. His idiot father disowned him. So my sister divorced him for that and other reasons.We never liked my EX brother in law anyway! Your child is your child, no matter what. I would love a gay child the same. I couldn't love my nephew more, striaght or gay. I knew before anyone in the family. I knew for years.

There is nothing wrong with loving anyone. Love is a good thing. As long as no one hurts another.

Robin


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## Keri (Jun 10, 2008)

I would not have a problem with it. I grew up very open minded (as I will teach my son and future children that). I don't have a problem with sexual preference (gay or straight). Just ask that when my kid stays over, that no one is acting sexual towards their partner (gay or straight). My son doesn't need to see excessive kissing and so forth from his friends parents (gay or straight). He may have questions, but they'll be answered before. I'm guessing that if his friend grew up in this enviroment, that his friend would explain things. And that his friend loves having 2 moms or 2 dads. And if his friend is fine with it, I know my son would be. That's just how kids are. I have some really good friends that are gay. I love being around them and my son is around them too.


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## SammyL (Jun 10, 2008)

[SIZE=10pt]I just wanted to say that I am glad that this post did not turn into an all out "cage match" so to speak.[/SIZE]

I also just wanted to add, that everyone deserves to be loved...

This is also the truest statement I have ever heard...



> WE are human, to need love is like needing air, to find it is a gift from whomever it is you find to share it with.


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