# Studding out a Stallion



## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

what do i need to know about studding out a stallion? i plan to stud out my stallion eventually and would like to know what i need to put in the ad, what price i should ask, what i should ask of the mare owner, etc? throw it all at me!






as for the price, his pic is on my website, he has bloodlines that are non existent in maine, hes going to be very small(about 28"), he has very sweet easy to control temperament even around mares, his dam is an english import, he's minimal tobiano pinto(most likely homozygous, LWO-), and hes got great conformation with a beautiful head and neck.


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## rabbitsfizz (May 24, 2010)

Unless he is a show winner I honestly think you are onto a non starter with standing a stallion. Most Mini owners prefer to have their own stallion.

Also, I found it was a heck of a lot of work for very little return, and the risk of my good horse being hurt by rank mares (Sorry, mare owners, I have done this with big horses most of my life and it was always the mares, never the stallions, that hurt me!)

So, you take him to some shows, get some championships under his belt, prove he is a good horse and also prove that he is 28" (thinking that is what he will make won't do it!)

_then_ you will need insurance and a very good contract, and you will _still_ get people thinking they can bring their horrible 36" mares to him for half price because they are unregistered!!!

Been there, got three hundred dirty, trampled t-shirts.

NEVER going to do it again.

Good Luck!!!





(*and sorry....*)


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## Tab (May 24, 2010)

I think I'm heading towards the state of mind Jane is in (and fast). There are so many awesome colts out there (and for cheap) that most people prefer to buy and breed their own.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

rabbitsfizz said:


> Unless he is a show winner I honestly think you are onto a non starter with standing a stallion. Most Mini owners prefer to have their own stallion.
> 
> Also, I found it was a heck of a lot of work for very little return, and the risk of my good horse being hurt by rank mares (Sorry, mare owners, I have done this with big horses most of my life and it was always the mares, never the stallions, that hurt me!)
> 
> ...













hahaha! no need to appologize, i said give it to me straight! i've already decided that i'm not going to stand him to unregistered mares. i want him to have babies that can be more than just backyard pets. hes 2 and is barely 27" some i'm 90% sure he will be 28".


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## Songcatcher (May 24, 2010)

I agree wholeheartedly with Jane. It just is not worth the effort unless you are very experienced and in it big time. The risk to your stallion is not worth the small return. The only outside mares I take in are those I have sold with an agreement to rebreed them.

Respectfully, it is an endevor that requires experience, not just someone who has a new colt and thinks they are now a horse breeder.


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## targetsmom (May 24, 2010)

There is no way I would do it, for all the reasons Jane said and maybe even a few more!! And even at that, I STILL get people asking if our stallion is available at stud. I figure if they want one of his babies that badly, they can buy one of his foals that we offer for sale.


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## Make A Wish Miniatures (May 24, 2010)

I don't think it would be a really good idea. Most people have their own mini stallions. If someone wants to breed to an outside stallion they are going to want a proven stallion not a two year old. If you think he will mature at 28 inches that isn't for sure he can do some growing in the next few years. You think he is homozygous and possibly LWO. You would need proof (test him) If people were thinking about breeding to an outside stallion they would more than likely want to see the stallions get and not just one or two foals. Most people breeding to other stallions are going to want the stallion to have a show record or his get to have a show record . Do you have a safe place for outside mares ? It is a big resposibility to have someone elses horses in your care,have you thought about what you will do if one of those mares hurts your stallion? If you have to breed I would think stick to breeding your own mares.


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## Allure Ranch (May 24, 2010)

_I have to say that I completely agree with everyone's response on the topic. _

_ _

_I personally don't offer stud service to any of our stallions and I'm an experienced horse breeder myself. I realize that these are all questions that your asking so that you will possibly begin to have the knowledge base needed in order to pursue a sound breeding program. But to take it a step further once again were talking about a hypothetical subject on a horse that you may or may not purchase again._

_ _

_How is it that you have so much time during M-F during school hours to be on the Internet? _

_ _

_ _


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

Make A Wish Miniatures said:


> I don't think it would be a really good idea. Most people have their own mini stallions. If someone wants to breed to an outside stallion they are going to want a proven stallion not a two year old. If you think he will mature at 28 inches that isn't for sure he can do some growing in the next few years. You think he is homozygous and possibly LWO. You would need proof (test him) If people were thinking about breeding to an outside stallion they would more than likely want to see the stallions get and not just one or two foals. Most people breeding to other stallions are going to want the stallion to have a show record or his get to have a show record . Do you have a safe place for outside mares ? It is a big resposibility to have someone elses horses in your care,have you thought about what you will do if one of those mares hurts your stallion? If you have to breed I would think stick to breeding your own mares.



k thanks! i guess i wont be doing that! btw i said he is negative for LWO


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

Allure Ranch said:


> _I have to say that I completely agree with everyone's response on the topic. _
> 
> _ _
> 
> ...



fyi, i purchased him and hes being delivered this saturday, and at this time i'm not going to school for personal reasons. why do you care anyway?


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

targetsmom said:


> There is no way I would do it, for all the reasons Jane said and maybe even a few more!! And even at that, I STILL get people asking if our stallion is available at stud. I figure if they want one of his babies that badly, they can buy one of his foals that we offer for sale.



how do you respond when they ask you if you stand your stud? just wondering


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## StarRidgeAcres (May 24, 2010)

You're doing the right thing by asking the questions you are, so good for you!!





I have to say that I agree with everything that has been said here. And even though I agree, I actually do stand my stallion to outside mares.



Why? Well, believe me, I ask myself that all the time!!



It's HARD work, not really worth the effort in most cases and I swear I turn down more than 90% of the mares that are submitted for approval...maybe even more. The reason I do it? Because I know that although I love my broodmares and they have been carefully selected, there are still better ones out there. So I keep looking around for one of those that is better than what I have that may be interested. For me, it's about promoting my stallion, but to the right kind of mare owner with the right mare. It's not easy and honestly, most folks with mares of the quality I'm going to approve already have a very nice stallion of their own. So it's those folks that want to try another stallion just to get a little different blood in their herd that would be, and are, my customers. I'm very lucky in that even though Spirit has never stepped foot in the show ring, his production record and his pedigree are strong enough that people consider him.

It's a long road and there are TONS of things to consider. Again, you're doing the right thing by asking the questions you are. Kudos to you for that!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

StarRidgeAcres said:


> You're doing the right thing by asking the questions you are, so good for you!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks!


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## shadowpaints (May 24, 2010)

someday, when my stallion has more of a show record, and a few more babies on the ground we plan on studding him out, but we will be very picky.

You have to remember that just because a mare is registered, doesnt mean she should be bred. im not saying that the only horses that have a long show record should be bred.. but be sure that the mares you breed to have a even bite, make sure they are correctly propotioned and not dwarfy in anyway. make sure ther conformation is good! check out their sires and dams at least to make sure you would want to breed to them too. make sure the mare will compliment your stallion!

When we start standing our stallions to outside mares, we will require that they be cultured and have a clear coggins and health certificate.

generally , people charge a stud fee and a certian amount for mare care.

also as im sure you know, start teaching your stallion good manners now. the earlier the better.

as it was already stated, make sure you have adequate housing for outside mares.. make sure your property is clean and free of debris.

good luck in your endevor!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

shadowpaints said:


> someday, when my stallion has more of a show record, and a few more babies on the ground we plan on studding him out, but we will be very picky.
> 
> You have to remember that just because a mare is registered, doesnt mean she should be bred. im not saying that the only horses that have a long show record should be bred.. but be sure that the mares you breed to have a even bite, make sure they are correctly propotioned and not dwarfy in anyway. make sure ther conformation is good! check out their sires and dams at least to make sure you would want to breed to them too. make sure the mare will compliment your stallion!
> 
> ...




thanks! and by registered i meant i'd have to approve, sorry



i'm getting everything mixed up today!


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## Miniv (May 24, 2010)

Molly said:


> how do you respond when they ask you if you stand your stud? just wondering



We politely tell the person that we only stand our stallions to a mare or filly (when they are old enough) who has come from our farm....and we can negotiate that into the purchase contract.

We did go through the painful experience of standing a couple of our stallions to Outside mares. It was definitely a LEARNING experience. We were picky about the quality of the mares. What ended up being a nightmare was the LFG (Live Foal Guarantee).

1. The mare needs to be proven to be fertile and clean by a VET with written documentation.

2. How does the stallion owner know that the mare is being managed correctly during her pregnancy?

3. How does the stallion owner know for sure that the birth of the foal was ATTENDED?

Oh, I agree with Jane (Rabbit) completely....... Good luck with what ever you decide to do.


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## valshingle (May 24, 2010)

I have some thoughts:

1) I keep all outside mares in an area where they will not come into contact with any of my horses, for the sake of the outside mare and my own horses.

2) I no longer offer LFG. We've never had a problem, but with miniatures there are too many serious consequences of an unattended birth.

3) Select the outside mares carefully. Everything negative about the foal will be blamed on the stallion.

4) I have 3 World and National Champion stallions that have World titled parents that are offered at a reasonable price. I have offered them at public stud for 3+ years. Only one person has chosen to send mares to them. Most mini breeders DO NOT breed to studs other than their own.

5) Are you able to provide skilled ultrasound and other veterinary services to the outside mares? Can you afford to pay the vet bill while waiting to be reimbursed by the mare owner? If the mare gets hurt, the owner may hold you responsible and at the very least, refuse to pay the vet bill. At the worst, they will hold you liable for the worth of the mare. If the mare comes with a vaginal infection that you don't know about your stallion can become infected and pass it to your own mares. Do you know how to clean a mare and stallion before breeding them?

Just some food for thought. Oh, and a polite "My stud isn't available to outside mares at this time, but thank you for considering him" will suffice.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

Miniv said:


> We politely tell the person that we only stand our stallions to a mare or filly (when they are old enough) who has come from our farm....and we can negotiate that into the purchase contract.
> 
> We did go through the painful experience of standing a couple of our stallions to Outside mares. It was definitely a LEARNING experience. We were picky about the quality of the mares. What ended up being a nightmare was the LFG (Live Foal Guarantee).
> 
> ...



i imagine the LFG is pretty difficult, like you said you never know what the mare owner has done/will do. thanks for your opinion!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

valshingle said:


> I have some thoughts:
> 
> 1) I keep all outside mares in an area where they will not come into contact with any of my horses, for the sake of the outside mare and my own horses.
> 
> ...



thanks for the info! i don't think i will do it, at least for a while anyway. i dont want my boy to get hurt. i do know how to clean a stallion, but i dont know how to clean a mare.


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## disneyhorse (May 24, 2010)

Molly said:


> hahaha! no need to appologize, i said give it to me straight! i've already decided that i'm not going to stand him to unregistered mares. i want him to have babies that can be more than just backyard pets. hes 2 and is barely 27" some i'm 90% sure he will be 28".


Hello...

I highly suggest working with a professional who breeds stallions before deciding to stand (the more common term for "studding out") a stallion to the public. That way you can understand the subtleties of stallion handling, breeding, and methods. I understand that you are a youth, which is fine, but you are at a great age to mentor from someone and take the time to learn rather than just jump in and be disappointed or injured. Stallions of ALL sizes deserve to be handled correctly... just because minis are pretty easy doesn't mean they should get different respect or handling.

There is a lot to *proper* reproduction in horses between two parties.

Above, you say that you want your stallion's babies to be more than just backyard pets. Well, with stallions being able to spread their genes to many foals per year, it is important for the stallion HIMSELF to be more than "just a backyard pet." Many, MANY breeding farms spend THOUSANDS of dollars showing and promoting their stallions at the National level. Although promotion certainly does NOT ensure that a stallion will outproduce himself, it DOES allow the breeder to compare their stock to others as some degree of measure. It gives another dimension to marketing (other exhibitors see the stallion at shows, mare owners want to introduce "what's winning" into their own herd, it is easier to market foals that are "out of a winning stallion", etc.)

I GENERALLY (there are always exceptions) believe that backyard pet x backyard pet = backyard pet and because this is NOT your vision, you are not setting yourself up for success.

Again, I would highly suggest you find a mentor in your area and take the time to learn, rather than just ask some questions on a public forum that cannot be answered without justice. There are entire books written on these subjects!

There are always exceptions to everything though. Maybe you will take your little stallion to local AMHA shows and he will stand undefeated in every Grand class he goes in!

I have a stallion myself, I have spent three years so far dragging him to shows and I'm still not certain he will remain a stallion or ever sire any foals. I think he's nice, but I'm not barn blind, either. And I hate to add up how much I've spent on him! But I believe deeply in ethical breeding, which means ONLY breeding something that has proved itself in one way or another. Just being "well bred, homozygous for some color, and conformationally put together okay" does not cut it for me.

Good luck to you,

Andrea


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## Field-of-Dreams (May 24, 2010)

In 12 years of Minis I think we have bred six outside mares:

Two mares owned by the sweetest old man: one mare didn't catch that year, the other foaled a pretty filly- that never got out of the sac. We rebred for free. We offered to foal out his mares, at first he said no, then got scared and we did deliver the foals. Fortunately. Same mare foaled, I was there or she wouldn't have gotten out of the sac again. Gorgeous pinto filly (who he named after me... *blush*) and the other mare was textbook.

Friend's mare: covered multiple times- either never took or absorbed. Didn't rebreed, her choice.

Contacted by outside person: mare was five, had been an "only child" since 4 months old. She was at our place five weeks and NEVER caught her cycling. We teased her every day, she would flirt outside the fence but the moment we brought the stallion out she'd try to kill him. Didn't matter which stallion, we teased her with all of them. No manners, almost impossible to handle. Sent her home unbred.

Friend's mare: here for four YEARS, bred her every spring- either caught and aborted or never caught at all. Friend finally sold her as open.

Friend's mare: Bred last summer, due any day now.

So, out if six (eight if you count the rebred mares) we had two live foals and one hopefully on it's way. IMHO, it's way too much work for way little money. And like everyone else said, most people have their own stallion anyway.


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## Charlotte (May 24, 2010)

Used to do it with big horses and TRIED it with minis and I agree 100% with Jane! Unless you can get a fee of over $1,000 and have all of your ducks in a row it just plain isn't worth it.

Charlotte


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

disneyhorse said:


> Hello...
> 
> I highly suggest working with a professional who breeds stallions before deciding to stand (the more common term for "studding out") a stallion to the public. That way you can understand the subtleties of stallion handling, breeding, and methods. I understand that you are a youth, which is fine, but you are at a great age to mentor from someone and take the time to learn rather than just jump in and be disappointed or injured. Stallions of ALL sizes deserve to be handled correctly... just because minis are pretty easy doesn't mean they should get different respect or handling.
> 
> ...



all my horses are shown, and he won't be an exception




in fact, his first show is june 26th. as for a mentor, i would love to do that and am open to that, but as far as i know no one in my area is willing to do that


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## SampleMM (May 24, 2010)

Since you are a youth, how could a mare owner enter into a breeding contract? The answer is they couldn't because a youth cannot enter into a legal contract with an adult.

Now, let me tell you a true story. For over ten years, I worked, and boarded at a big Quarter Horse farm where they stood two stallions. Fast forward ten years, I called the owner of the farm who also happens to be a friend and asked if I could breed my mare to her Two Eyed Jack son. We agreed on a price and since she was wintering in Florida she would have her son come over and breed my mare. My mare was in a standing heat and had been bred several times with absolutely no problems. Well, my mare ended up kicking the stallion and breaking his leg. A vet was called and he refused to put the stallion down (his crazy wife didn't believe in putting any animal down). So, the poor stallion which was in shock, suffered all night long and died in the morning. To this day, I feel guilt for what my mare did. I can't imagine a youth doing this. It's hard enough when you are an adult.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

SampleMM said:


> Since you are a youth, how could a mare owner enter into a breeding contract? The answer is they couldn't because a youth cannot enter into a legal contract with an adult.
> 
> Now, let me tell you a true story. For over ten years, I worked, and boarded at a big Quarter Horse farm where they stood two stallions. Fast forward ten years, I called the owner of the farm who also happens to be a friend and asked if I could breed my mare to her Two Eyed Jack son. We agreed on a price and since she was wintering in Florida she would have her son come over and breed my mare. My mare was in a standing heat and had been bred several times with absolutely no problems. Well, my mare ended up kicking the stallion and breaking his leg. A vet was called and he refused to put the stallion down (his crazy wife didn't believe in putting any animal down). So, the poor stallion which was in shock, suffered all night long and died in the morning. To this day, I feel guilt for what my mare did. I can't imagine a youth doing this. It's hard enough when you are an adult.



i do have parents, you know. my parents would make the contract and i would handle the breeding. and i would use breeding hobbles for the protection of the stallion. if the mare had been wearing hobbles that could've been prevented.


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## ohmt (May 24, 2010)

Please be careful how you word things-when you ask for criticism and people's opinions, you must be able to handle it. A couple of your posts have been a bit snippy when all the other person was doing was giving you advice. If you want to do grown up things, you must act like a grown up first.

I say this wholeheartedly though you may not think so. The downside to not being able to express myself in person!

Good job for asking questions; knowledge is the key to success. My opinion is that you should show your boy as much as possible for a couple of years. Then, buy your own mare and see what the resulting foal is like. If you like what he produces, reconsider standing him at stud but remember what everyone else has said. If not, start over. My family has been breeding minis for over 20 years and we have had MANY stallions who were gorgeous, but didn't produce gorgeous. Everything is trial and error, especially when you start with an unproven stallion.

I wish you lots of luck!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

ohmt said:


> Please be careful how you word things-when you ask for criticism and people's opinions, you must be able to handle it. A couple of your posts have been a bit snippy when all the other person was doing was giving you advice. If you want to do grown up things, you must act like a grown up first.
> 
> I say this wholeheartedly though you may not think so. The downside to not being able to express myself in person!
> 
> ...



well i dont enjoy being bashed for asking questions, which seems to happen alot on here!

thanks for your input on standing my stud!


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## SampleMM (May 24, 2010)

I'm sorry. I thought you were trying to ascertain information about standing a stallion. My point was that you are too young to be standing a stallion. Are your parents experienced horse people? Perhaps they are and that would be a real benefit to you. However, I would never ask my parents to take on this type of liability. They will need to purchase insurance which isn't cheap and if something goes wrong, your parents could find themselves in a middle of a lawsuit.

I also suggest you reread your comment to me. It's kind of sad you would even say that.



I was trying to share a piece of my life in order to help you.





BTW, you are incorrect about this accident being avoidable as the farm manager fell down on ice and the mare got out of his hands and ran into the arena where the stallion was and she kicked him. End of story!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

SampleMM said:


> I'm sorry. I thought you were trying to ascertain information about standing a stallion. My point was that you are too young to be standing a stallion. Are your parents experienced horse people? Perhaps they are and that would be a real benefit to you. However, I would never ask my parents to take on this type of liability. They will need to purchase insurance which isn't cheap and if something goes wrong, your parents could find themselves in a middle of a lawsuit.
> 
> I also suggest you reread your comment to me. It's kind of sad you would even say that.
> 
> ...




my parents are draft horse people, not mini people. they think minis are like dogs. if you would have read previous posts you would see that i said i decided not to stand my stud because i dont want him to get hurt. how is it sad that i state the truth? many people on this forum have stated the truth to me not caring if my feelings were hurt or not, so why should i care?

ETA: i'm also soo sick of being seen as inadequet and inexperianced because i'm a youth. i've been around horses since i was born, thats 15(almost 16) years! i AM NOT an amatuer when it comes to horses(studs included!), only when it comes to breeding because my family was never into breeding, but i do know the basics, so i would appreciate it if i would be treated less like a person that saw a pretty pony in a feild and decided to buy one, and more of the intermediate horse person that i am!!!


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## ruffian (May 24, 2010)

"my parents are draft horse people, not mini people. they think minis are like dogs. if you would have read previous posts you would see that i said i decided not to stand my stud because i dont want him to get hurt. how is it sad that i state the truth? many people on this forum have stated the truth to me not caring if my feelings were hurt or not, so why should i care? "

If you ask for opinions, suggestions, or comments, you must be able to accept what is provided. You asked what you should charge. People were nice enough to give you the benefit of their extensive experience and you came out with "victim". You started out well asking for opinions, but you can't be upset or hurt when people give them.

"ETA: i'm also soo sick of being seen as inadequet and inexperianced because i'm a youth. i've been around horses since i was born, thats 15(almost 16) years! i AM NOT an amatuer when it comes to horses(studs included!), only when it comes to breeding because my family was never into breeding. "

BREEDING is a whole different ball game than just being around intact stallions in a non-breeding situation. Just because miniature studs are small doesn't mean they don't have a full dose of testosterone and will use it. I have scars from being kicked or bit or pushed by a breeding stallion when a mare comes into season. And I AM experienced - over 30+ years - There are still areas when I AM an amateur. and am still learning from folks on this forum.

When I ask a question, and I do ask questions, I expect and accept opinions of others here.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 24, 2010)

ruffian said:


> "my parents are draft horse people, not mini people. they think minis are like dogs. if you would have read previous posts you would see that i said i decided not to stand my stud because i dont want him to get hurt. how is it sad that i state the truth? many people on this forum have stated the truth to me not caring if my feelings were hurt or not, so why should i care? "
> 
> If you ask for opinions, suggestions, or comments, you must be able to accept what is provided. You asked what you should charge. People were nice enough to give you the benefit of their extensive experience and you came out with "victim". You started out well asking for opinions, but you can't be upset or hurt when people give them.
> 
> ...




opinions can be given without hazing or rudeness. you have scars from studs? your lucky, i got a concussion from a 2yr old colt i had! he nearly killed me, i was 5 or 6! i'm not stupid ok! I KNOW WHAT STUDS CAN DO!!! i also know how difficult breeding is, but the second i ask ANYTHING on here about breeding my mare next year i get a bunch of people freaking out on me and accusing me of not loving or caring about my mare! yeah, that will SOOO help me when foaling time comes around! and what about the other farms that breed their mares, does that make them cruel and heartless too?


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## Holly at WhiteTailsMinis (May 25, 2010)

OKAY THATS IT! I CANT TAKE IT ANY LONGER.........................

First off, have you tried the youth forum????

"you have scars from studs? your lucky, i got a concussion from a 2yr old colt i had! he nearly killed me, i was 5 or 6! i'm not stupid ok! I KNOW WHAT STUDS CAN DO!!!"

Well someone is stupid. I dont even take my eyes off of my 8 year old when she is messing with he minis and they are NEVER WITH the stallions at this age. Let alone let my 3 year old handle one. They are just as unpredictable as any animal. You never know what is going to happen. Especially when you are handling a breeding age stallion.

Really............ IF YOU CANT TAKE THE HEAT, GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN!!!!!!!!!!!

You have come on here asking for ADULTS OPINIONS who have been doing this for umpteen years, and they give you their EXCELLENT answers and you cry about every little single thing they are telling you. So if you want to go and cry to your mommy and daddy please do so because I know I am just about sick of hearing you WHINE!


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## wildoak (May 25, 2010)

Good job for asking lots of the right questions.



You do sound like you have some good horse experience, and that will serve you well. My daughter was raised with horses too and I would not have considered her a rank amateur in many respects. She was - and is - a good horsewoman. She did in fact help me at times with breeding in her teens but I would not have suggested it as a career at that point.

You have the benefit of probably hundreds of combined years of experience here on this board, and lots of people happy to share with you. You are an intelligent, fairly experienced horseperson from what I read between the lines and you have made the decision not to stand your stallion. My suggestion is that you let it stop there and not get sucked into bickering & smart aleck responses here, benefits no one and makes people reluctant to respond next time.

Good luck with your colt, hope he does well for you.

Jan


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## Make A Wish Miniatures (May 25, 2010)

White tails you said it very well.


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## Allure Ranch (May 25, 2010)

_OMG amen.... High five.... Kudos.... I concur...._


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## WhiteTailsMinis (May 25, 2010)

This has gotten so ugly for some reason.

There are other youths on this forum that are not so disrespectful.

Written words are always in jeapordy of being interpreted so many different ways and punctuation makes a huge difference too as people can't see your face or expression to know how you intend it.

With that said, if you watch your "tone" and punctuation you might get less feelings hurt.

People are trying to help thinking you were sincere in your questions. All of us learn so much from the experiences of others. While we hope we're learning new things sometimes we might find that we need improvement or we learn we've been doing something wrong - or maybe the responses aren't what we want to hear - - but they are opinions of others and if you don't want to learn from it or use it - thats your right - but why insult someone for giving you their responses when it was you that asked.

Rather than bashing back with all negatives - thank them for their support and sharing their ideas and things that work for them. Why reinvent the wheel when people are here to share the things that work? If you don't agree, just don't use it but keep the forum a happy and fun place to be.

It's hard to take someone serious after they post so many times about a new horse - always changing their mind on the horse - and I have been very respectful not to mention OUR dealings *..............*

* *

*if you want to run with the big boys and not have your age be a factor then you must be alittle more curteous and respectful and act like the big boys.*


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## White Socks Miniature (May 25, 2010)

I think that you have some very valid questions and I have been very interested in what everyone has said in response to them. Why? because with animals, there is always learning to be done no matter what your experience level is, things are always changing, and it is great to have a large knowledge base and be able to pick and choose what works for you! I am a vet tech, and I can tell you right now that rarely ever do things go as per the text book. It is experience and continual learning that make you stronger, better, and more humble.

I think everyone here believes that your questions are with good intentions, however, they loose faith when you come around with your attitude. If you aren't willing to listen, and take advice graciously then dont ask.

"Its hard to move forward, If your always looking back." Keep your chin up, and keep working.


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## Marty (May 25, 2010)

Hello Young Lady. I can appreciate some of your questions and your enthusiasm and even some of your frustration.

I have a suggestion for you:

Ask your parents if they would consider joining this forum. Since they are big horse people and realize you are into the minis, surely one of would come here and chime in on your behalf. Since they are ultimately responsible for you and your miniatures, I'm sure they would be open to learn more about them too, especially since you are already advertising on your website.

Good luck and best wishes.


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## mydaddysjag (May 25, 2010)

I see on your webpage that you only have two mares, a two year old and a yearling, and I also see in a post of yours that you were planning to breed. I may have misunderstood, but you I think you said when you come back in foaling season asking for advice. I really hope your not talking about foaling season 2011. Both of your mares are too young to breed, so if you are dead set on breeding and wont listen to what anyone is telling you, please at least wait until they are a bit older, they are still babies themselves.

I also noticed that you have pictures of your two year old jumping in hand over the water tank, bitted up in an english bridle. While I dont see anything wrong with introducing a bridle at two, thats also very young to be having her jump, especially with a bit. Also, if you are going to jump her, please do it over something safer. Jumps are made to knock down if the horse bumps them, thats not the case with a rubbermade water tank. Also, if shes in an accident while jumping that tank, your really going to hurt her mouth since your using a bit not just a halter and lead.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

Marty said:


> Hello Young Lady. I can appreciate some of your questions and your enthusiasm and even some of your frustration.
> 
> I have a suggestion for you:
> 
> ...





my parents have no respect for what i do, and wouldnt bother coming on this forum. they're not resonsible for my minis, i do everything. clean stalls, working, feeding, watering, breeding(eventually) etc. they think minis are like dogs and are so easy to handle.


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## minimomNC (May 25, 2010)

My first suggestion is get better pictures. If your that proud of him, don't post pictures in his winter coat with a big halter on him. Get him cleaned up and clipped, put him in a show halter and get better pictures. I would never look at your horse twice as a breeding stallion based on your website. Second, prove he should be a stallion before you start trying to get people to pay to breed to him. You should be planning on getting him to the World or National shows before you start advertising him for breeding.

So my advice to you would be slow down. Get your ducks in a row, wait until your 18 and can write and sign your own contracts. Make sure your parents are able to handle an upset owner if a mare is injured or heaven forbid, dies on their property. If you do this with yourself being a minor, they will be responsible for everything that goes wrong.

And learn how to take whatever is said without getting upset. This is a forum open to the world. When you ask for advice, your going to get way more than that, so be prepared and conduct yourself in an adult manner. Accept all that is given, use what will help and forget the rest.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

mydaddysjag said:


> I see on your webpage that you only have two mares, a two year old and a yearling, and I also see in a post of yours that you were planning to breed. I may have misunderstood, but you I think you said when you come back in foaling season asking for advice. I really hope your not talking about foaling season 2011. Both of your mares are too young to breed, so if you are dead set on breeding and wont listen to what anyone is telling you, please at least wait until they are a bit older, they are still babies themselves.
> 
> I also noticed that you have pictures of your two year old jumping in hand over the water tank, bitted up in an english bridle. While I dont see anything wrong with introducing a bridle at two, thats also very young to be having her jump, especially with a bit. Also, if you are going to jump her, please do it over something safer. Jumps are made to knock down if the horse bumps them, thats not the case with a rubbermade water tank. Also, if shes in an accident while jumping that tank, your really going to hurt her mouth since your using a bit not just a halter and lead.


she cant get hurt because the water tank is barely 2 feet high and the bit is a smooth snaffle. by the time she has the baby she'll be four, and i'm not sure yet if i'll breed her next year or not. as for the jumping, no one around my area cares when i jump her or not and she loves to jump. she jumps over the tank by herself in the pasture all the time.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

minimomNC said:


> My first suggestion is get better pictures. If your that proud of him, don't post pictures in his winter coat with a big halter on him. Get him cleaned up and clipped, put him in a show halter and get better pictures. I would never look at your horse twice as a breeding stallion based on your website. Second, prove he should be a stallion before you start trying to get people to pay to breed to him. You should be planning on getting him to the World or National shows before you start advertising him for breeding.
> 
> So my advice to you would be slow down. Get your ducks in a row, wait until your 18 and can write and sign your own contracts. Make sure your parents are able to handle an upset owner if a mare is injured or heaven forbid, dies on their property. If you do this with yourself being a minor, they will be responsible for everything that goes wrong.
> 
> And learn how to take whatever is said without getting upset. This is a forum open to the world. When you ask for advice, your going to get way more than that, so be prepared and conduct yourself in an adult manner. Accept all that is given, use what will help and forget the rest.



the show halter is in the mail, and neither i or my parents have the money to go to nationals. thats my dream, though. to go there one day


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

Holly at WhiteTailsMinis said:


> OKAY THATS IT! I CANT TAKE IT ANY LONGER.........................
> 
> First off, have you tried the youth forum????
> 
> ...


you dont like it, then dont look at my posts! fyi, i got messaged some advice on this topic by a person who didnt want to be bashed by anyone on here, so i guess i'm not the only one who feels they get bashed at every turn! and i agree with her, many of you are just a bunch of grumpy old hags who want to put everything down!!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

Allure Ranch said:


> _OMG amen.... High five.... Kudos.... I concur...._



and you!!! why is it that every post i ever make YOU always put me down one way or another?!? do you hate me or something?


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## Sue_C. (May 25, 2010)

> many of you are just a bunch of grumpy old hags who want to put everything down!!








And by this ONE Oh-so-eloquent statement, you have very likeley turned away any help you might of been offered from here on this Forum. You have also, BTW, shown your total immaturity and inexperience.





I suggest you sit back, read ALL these posts, breathe deeply, give your head a shake, and come back with an apology.


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## hunterridgefarm (May 25, 2010)

I AM SO HAPPY THAT YOU ARE NOT MY CHILD. YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A BUTT TO SIT DOWN ON... YOU HAVE CAME ON HERE AND ASKED A QUESTION...

I WOULD NOT BREED TO A STUD THAT IS NOT PROVEN.

IF YOU CAN NOT TAKE THE HEAT THEN YOU NEED TO GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN.

AND YOU ARE 15 WELL YOU ARE ACTING LIKE A 5 YEAR OLD THAT HAS NOT GOTTEN THEIR WAY.

AS A MOTHER OF A 5 YEAR OLD HE ACTS BETTER THEN YOU. AND IF I WOULD OF TALK THE WAY YOU DO I WOULD STILL BE PICKING MY TEETH UP.

I THINK YOUR PARENTS NEED TO TAN YOUR HIDE. AT THE AGE OF 15 I HAD MORE REPEST FOR SOMEONE THAT WAS TWICE MY AGE THEN YOU DO..


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## Minimor (May 25, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> And by this ONE Oh-so-eloquent statement, you have very likeley turned away any help you might of been offered from here on this Forum. You have also, BTW, shown your total immaturity and inexperience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sue is exactly right.


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## MountainMeadows (May 25, 2010)

Folks you should be able to see the writing on the wall with this one - I have intentionally refrained from becoming involved with this thread because of what went down on the last one. This little gal needs to grow up - I do feel sorry for her horses - not because she doesn't care about them, but because she i pushing things a bit too fast, has answers for anything and will probably not pay attention to much of what all us "hags" have had to offer in the way of 100's of years of cumulative advice. Investing emotion into hitting your head against the wall would probably be more rewarding at this point.

Just my opinion for what little that is worth!

Stacy


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## valshingle (May 25, 2010)

I am about to give you some unsolicited advice. First of all I am very impressed by your professional looking website. Good job! If you did it yourself, you might have found a way to earn some extra money. Now, here's where I may upset you. There are several photos of your mares on a lunge line. In several of them the line is going between the horse's legs and is very loose. When lunging a horse, the line should be kept off the ground at all times. It should never be allowed to go between a horse's legs. While miniatures are small, things can happen and a lunge line between the legs can get tangled and endanger the horse. If this is something you already know, I apologize and recommend that you remove those photos from your site. They don't inspire confidence.

Are there any riding stables in your area? My 40 years of experience started out a a local riding stable. I spent hours observing trainers giving lessons. My knowledge of lunging came from my years in the hunter/jumper world. You might want to look into being a working student at a riding stable, local breeding farm, etc. The local feed store and vets may have some ideas. I was born in the suburbs with non-horsey parents. I convinced them to let me take one riding lesson a week. I spent all my free time at that barn watching and learning. You are lucky; you already have horses on your property and your parents are 'horsey'. But it doesn't mean that you don't have more to learn - we all do. Read books (not just on miniatures), watch trainers, ask to shadow people at shows.

I am sorry that your parents aren't more supportive of your interest in miniatures - I am not saying that they are against you. Just that their priorities are with draft horses.

At your age, and there is nothing wrong with your age, you have a lot of enthusiasm. Us 'old hags' have learned to temper the enthusiasm with caution. Lots of caution. Why? Because we have learned the hard way. We are giving you the benefit of all our mistakes and just plain bad luck. We DON'T want you to experience any of the bad things that we have. We are trying to spare you bad experiences and some embarrassment. If the people on this forum didn't care about you and your horses, they would simply ignore your questions.

If I didn't care about you and your horses, I wouldn't have responded. Please remember that.


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## Annabellarose (May 25, 2010)

StarRidgeAcres said:


> I have to say that I agree with everything that has been said here. And even though I agree, I actually do stand my stallion to outside mares.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To hi-jack this thread...



LOL I just wanted to say thank you for posting this and thank you for feeling/being this way. You are a true breeder and it is an attitude like this that will truly improve a breed. Also, I would like to thank you as a mare owner that has been frustrated at the lack of quality Miniature Horse owners/breeders willing to stand their stallions to the public. It seems like there is no shortage of owners of "pet quality" (to be nice) stallions that are willing to accept/breed to outside mares, but that owners of quality stallions (most often with show records) often aren't interested in accepting/breeding to outside mares (and I often don't agree with their choice of mares for their stallion and then I am not interested in their stallion's offspring for sale).


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## fancyappy (May 25, 2010)

Molly said:


> many of you are just a bunch of grumpy old hags who want to put everything down!!




I knew there was a name for what ails me!.."grumpy old hag syndrome"...

maybe you should step away from the computer for awhile and cool off..it is really not necessary to be rude ..take a break from posting and instead completely read some of the great advice shared here from these very helpful and knowledgeable posters. There is some great words of wisdom for you here that would be very helpful if you really want to learn.


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## Allure Ranch (May 25, 2010)

Molly said:


> and you!!! why is it that every post i ever make YOU always put me down one way or another?!? do you hate me or something?



_No by far.... I just think that your disrespectful and I would suggest that you be more open to the sound advice that's been given you. _


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## wingnut (May 25, 2010)

I'm going to jump into the fray from a different perspective.

Molly, what you need to do is step back. Understand that when you ask for information on a subject on an internet board, you're going to get a lot of different answers and MANY will not be what you want to hear. Accept that and move on. Getting defensive, over and over again, will NOT help you. Calling people names is completely disrespectful and would not be tolerated from an 80 yr old, so why do you think anyone would tolerate it from a 15 yr old? Age has nothing to do with it. It will only serve to put you in a defensive position in every subsequent post you write on that same board. You will develop a reputation that will be very hard to overcome, if you choose to try and do so. You want to be treated as a mature, sensible person? You want to be given/shown respect? Then stop acting like a foolish teenager. I live with one myself...she's 16. I know foolish teenage behavior when I see it.

This board has *thousands* of posts. It's not the easiest thing to do but using the search feature and finding older questions that fall into the same vein as yours is a great way to learn what you need to know and avoid putting yourself out there. You will quickly learn that certain topics are "hot buttons". Learn from these old messages how to avoid asking questions that push these "hot buttons". It can be done! When I started with my first mini last year, I worked hard not to sound like a clueless fool when posting to these boards. I also realized that no matter how I approached it, I was very likely to get responses that I didn't like. Thankfully, I'm an old pro at message boards and how they work, so I was prepared for that.

You say your parents don't support you? How is that possible? Do you own the property that your horses are on? Do you own the structure that your horses are housed in? Are you boarding your now 3 minis? If so, are you paying for that board all by yourself? Do you pay for the vet, feed, hay, farrier bills all by yourself? Please, if your parents are paying for any part of these expenses, they are supporting you a great deal. Just because they don't "get" minis doesn't mean they don't support you and you do them a disservice by portraying them as unsupportive.

There are NO easy or quick answers to most questions when it comes to the care of our beloved minis. Slow down for Pete's sake. You now have 3 minis who are terribly young and need YOU to learn some patience in order to best serve THEIR needs. This is about THEM and not you. When you come to that realization, you'll finally understand why some of the people on this board are so frustrated by your behavior here.


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## Tab (May 25, 2010)

Here's some more unsolicited advice for you.





1 Timothy 4:12

12 Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

I don't know if you are a believer, but I believe this verse can apply to anyone. You have such power to lead by example and through kindness! People will say, "Yeah, she's a kid, but I didn't realize she was so young because she's respectful, wise, teachable, and kind!"

I am not far off from where you are. The desire of my heart was to eventually breed horses. I loved riding but I enjoyed the depth of equine personality and I had just as much fun grooming them, working them, and training them on the ground! Minis were a perfect choice for me.

My goal was eventually to breed, but at 14 my mom said no. She said save up for a gelding first so you are sure you want own and breed minis. Then I bathed dogs, mowed lawns, and babysat. Foaling and foals are a huge responsibility she said. I agree! I was blessed to be there and hands on for births eventually, but I was also blessed to have a few extra sets of hands and eyes in the foaling stall with me.

Here's Checkers my first mini, a 33.5" gelding:






I purchased a yearling filly and then a yearling colt a year later. They were both the best I could afford, and in fact I had help purchasing the colt and our friends allowed us to make payments! Finally by 2001 (when my mare was 4) I was able to cross the two, and the blessing that arrived in '02 was far greater than I could have imagined!

Most of my life was spent out in the barn, but finally by the time I was 19 I was able to see the result of my very first breeding. Boy was I glad I read blessed are the broodmares, and researching on the internet, and learning from experienced breeders! I'm still learning from others, even those who have wronged me





I had gifts at 14, and you probably have a lot of gifts at 15. I could recognize what I liked already. I knew what good movement looked like from my experience riding and working with large horses. I was homeschooled and my mom and sister worked at a boarding barn where I met up with an older lady (who was a perfectionist) on the proper way to do everything horse related. I learned so much from her, and her parting gift to me was a horse book!

If a horse can move well he is usually built well. I also gleaned experience and AN EYE for conformation from my grandmother, mother, and sister who bred and showed dogs to many championships. My mother had also raised lambs and calves, had 3 children of her own, and had delivered many baby animals, so she was very wise in the art of birth.

So my advice is to keep asking questions and use your powers for good! I am still learning. My horses and breeding are improving. They are not perfect but they came from the best I could possibly afford. Keep asking and keep learning. At this point if someone is disrespectful or condescending to me _unprovoked _I learn to ignore them!

I have learned something from everyone who has come into my life, even from the "mean" people. Most people on here are really trying to give you solid advice. Good luck!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

fancyappy said:


> I knew there was a name for what ails me!.."grumpy old hag syndrome"...
> 
> maybe you should step away from the computer for awhile and cool off..it is really not necessary to be rude ..take a break from posting and instead completely read some of the great advice shared here from these very helpful and knowledgeable posters. There is some great words of wisdom for you here that would be very helpful if you really want to learn.



thanks

i went outside and cooled off and i came back here and read everything



i have to say i'm soooo sorry to EVERYONE!! i've been very stressed lately and i can see i've been taking it out on you guys, and i'm soo sorry for that! i hope you guys can forgive my rudeness and stupidity and continue to answer my questions and help me learn. even though i dont deserve it. i wont be rude ever again, if i am then tell me because sometimes i dont realize it. i'm sooo sorry!


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## SampleMM (May 25, 2010)

Apology accepted.



Everyone makes mistakes and anyone who asks for forgiveness, deserves it.





We have a newspaper in Maine and if you would like I could put an ad in and try to find you a mentor. PM me if you like that idea.


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## ohmt (May 25, 2010)

Some of the best words of wisdom I have ever received:

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting their own battle"

I am 20 years old with a herd of 35 minis and I have been managing my grandparents farm since I was 12. I have run a business and acted as such-nobody has ever questioned my age and I have several sales and breeding references. I just purchased a reserve national grand champion stallion and have a plan for every move that I make with my breeding program, always to strive for better. I have found that the only way to do so is to soak up all of the knowledge you can get from people who are doing exactly what you are trying to do, the people who have your same goals.

Your apology was very grown up-it takes a lot to realize ones mistakes and it takes even more to admit them and to try to make things right. Here's the part where you're not going to like me....

BUT, if you really want to start a breeding program and stand your stallion at stud, you can never lose your cool. First off, it is a sign of immaturity and you will have a very hard time trying to find anyone willing to deal with you because of it no matter how many times you apologize. Second, because you are young trying to start a business on your own, people will be weary and less forgiving when you do show that immaturity. I say you only show for now and love those horses. Learn as much as you can and do a little growing up, THEN rethink a breeding program.

Once again, I wish you lots of luck. Please feel free to e-mail or message me privately if you ever have questions.


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## SampleMM (May 25, 2010)

Apology accepted.



Everyone makes mistakes and anyone who asks for forgiveness, deserves it.





We have a newspaper and a few weeklys in Maine so if you would like I could put an ad in and try to find you a mentor. PM me if you like that idea.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

ohmt said:


> Some of the best words of wisdom I have ever received:
> 
> "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting their own battle"
> 
> ...



thanks. and i've decided not to stand my stud, i dont want him to get hurt.


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## SampleMM (May 25, 2010)

Sorry, I thought my other post was lost in space. I'm not sure what is going on. I think it's my wireless internet card.


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## RhineStone (May 25, 2010)

ohmt said:


> First off, it is a sign of immaturity and you will have a very hard time trying to find anyone willing to deal with you because of it no matter how many times you apologize.


We know of a lady around here that has lost lots of horse business (boarding, breeding, training, etc.) because of how she has treated other people in the past. We considered her a "friendly acquaintance" until she blew up at my husband last year over something absolutely rediculous.




We basically try to avoid her now, and know of lots of others who do the same. It's pretty sad, because she has/had a lot to offer, and there are very few people that we have a hard time dealing with.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> We know of a lady around here that has lost lots of horse business (boarding, breeding, training, etc.) because of how she has treated other people in the past. We considered her a "friendly acquaintance" until she blew up at my husband last year over something absolutely rediculous.
> 
> 
> 
> We basically try to avoid her now, and know of lots of others who do the same. It's pretty sad, because she has/had a lot to offer, and there are very few people that we have a hard time dealing with.



what did she yell at him for, if you dont mind my asking?


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## StarRidgeAcres (May 25, 2010)

Molly said:


> thanks
> 
> i went outside and cooled off and i came back here and read everything
> 
> ...



Everyone makes mistakes - even us old hags!



Sorry, just couldn't resist as that was, while being insulting, just about one of the funniest things I'd heard in a long time! So thanks for the chuckle. But more importantly, it's take a very mature person to come back and say "hey, I was wrong" no matter what the subject matter at hand may be. We've all lost it a time or two and we all will again. It's human nature. It's how we handle the future instances that shape us. Did we learn from the past? It sounds like you have. Please continue to ask questions because we ALL learn every time one of us asks a question.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 25, 2010)

StarRidgeAcres said:


> Everyone makes mistakes - even us old hags!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, just couldn't resist as that was, while being insulting, just about one of the funniest things I'd heard in a long time! So thanks for the chuckle. But more importantly, it's take a very mature person to come back and say "hey, I was wrong" no matter what the subject matter at hand may be. We've all lost it a time or two and we all will again. It's human nature. It's how we handle the future instances that shape us. Did we learn from the past? It sounds like you have. Please continue to ask questions because we ALL learn every time one of us asks a question.



thanks. glad you had a good laugh!



i still have plenty of questions, trust me!


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## Nathan Luszcz (May 25, 2010)

I was under the impression youths couldn't show stallions?

I'm sorry, but any youth, of any age, should not be handling any stallion OR mare in a breeding situation. I have taught hundreds of people how to collect and breed stallions, from college age up to professionals, and it is not a job for a youngster without a very experienced mentor watching over every step and experienced animals (that the mentor is very, very familiar with). Stallions are very dangerous to the unprepared. A little credited fact is mares in breeding situations can be just as dangerous, if not moreso, than the studs! I've been hurt many times in my breeding career, and so far (knock on wood) its always been by the mares. A youth, especially lacking adult, EXPERIENCED, supervision, should not be breeding. Period.


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## valshingle (May 26, 2010)

In AMHA youths 13 and older can show stallions. Can't remember the AMHR age offhand.

Thanks for the apology, from an occasionally grumpy middle aged (ok, old to a 15 yr old) hag (especially first thing in the morning)


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## Holly at WhiteTailsMinis (May 26, 2010)

I accept your apology. But I am not a "old hag", even though some days I feel like a old hag. lol!


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## mydaddysjag (May 26, 2010)

If it's any condolences, I'm only nearing 22, but feel like an old hag. Im almost 37 weeks pregnant and feeling every bit of it. lol


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## Jill (May 26, 2010)

I've only read the original post. If the stallion has done well showing on the National level, you may get some interest in breeding to him. If not, don't count on much.

The thing with minis is that nearly everyone has their own stallion(s) and some of us even have real nice ones. We all think our own stallions are exceptional, but the reality is that most miniature stallions couldn't win a gelding halter class.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

mydaddysjag said:


> If it's any condolences, I'm only nearing 22, but feel like an old hag. Im almost 37 weeks pregnant and feeling every bit of it. lol



you're pregnant?!? you must dying in this heat(or, at least around here you would, 94 degrees today!!) i'm 15 and sometimes even i feel like an old hag! lol!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

Nathan Luszcz said:


> I was under the impression youths couldn't show stallions?
> 
> I'm sorry, but any youth, of any age, should not be handling any stallion OR mare in a breeding situation. I have taught hundreds of people how to collect and breed stallions, from college age up to professionals, and it is not a job for a youngster without a very experienced mentor watching over every step and experienced animals (that the mentor is very, very familiar with). Stallions are very dangerous to the unprepared. A little credited fact is mares in breeding situations can be just as dangerous, if not moreso, than the studs! I've been hurt many times in my breeding career, and so far (knock on wood) its always been by the mares. A youth, especially lacking adult, EXPERIENCED, supervision, should not be breeding. Period.



this stallion, in his previous home, was led around by the neighborhood kids(the youngest being 10) and never gave them any fuss so i'd say i have little chance of getting hurt by him



i am still going to be carefull though!


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## Make A Wish Miniatures (May 26, 2010)

You said that you probably wouldn't get hurt because the neighborhood kids led your stallion around and had no problem. That's nice but remember you have two mares who will come into heat and your stallion is going to react to that. Has your stallion dropped both testicles? If he hasn't then of course he would be calm for the neighborhood kids. Just a few things that this old hag thinks you might want to think about. Just remember a mini may be small but you can still get hurt especially by a stallion.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

Make A Wish Miniatures said:


> You said that you probably wouldn't get hurt because the neighborhood kids led your stallion around and had no problem. That's nice but remember you have two mares who will come into heat and your stallion is going to react to that. Has your stallion dropped both testicles? If he hasn't then of course he would be calm for the neighborhood kids. Just a few things that this old hag thinks you might want to think about. Just remember a mini may be small but you can still get hurt especially by a stallion.



the previous owner said he is dropped(he hasent been delivered yet so i cant say much). she hasent had him around mares before so when he gets here i plan on being VERY cautious, 'specially because my vet told me that misty(my 2yr old grulla who has never shown heat) might show to the stallion. my buckskin is to young to show heat yet(just turned one on 5/21)

sorry about the hag thing



and when he gets here i'll be sure to post pictures and maybe do a poll on a barn name


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## Make A Wish Miniatures (May 26, 2010)

Your yearling filly can come into heat. I have yearlings who have already come into heat this year.


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## Dontworrybeappy (May 26, 2010)

At the risk of being called an old hag...





A yearling is not "too young" to show heat - I've had several fillies show at 8 or 9 months old!

Only one of your mares is breeding quality, though - right? Didn't I read somewhere that you said one of your mares is a minimal dwarf?

Make double sure you have some good strong fences, with a space between them so that the mares and the colt can't take them down and get to each other! The mares are as bad as the stallions sometimes... when they're in heat, and when they aren't and they think the stallion needs to die!





If your folks have drafts you must have decent fences, the only thing I've had that's harder on fences than draft horses is cows - or goats!


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

Dontworrybeappy said:


> At the risk of being called an old hag...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



none of my mares are "dwarfy", i made 100% sure of that before purchasing



my buckskin is small(24"at 1yr, should mature between 26"-28") but not dwarfy. 8 or 9 months old



wow! i was told minis couldnt come into heat until 2yrs at least! as for fencing the stud will be in horse sized pannel fencing, i'm pretty sure that'll hold em(i hope anyway!)


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## Make A Wish Miniatures (May 26, 2010)

By horse size panel fence do you mean Panels like used in a big horse round pen? If so a small mini can get out of those especially if a stallion wants to get to a mare.


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## Marty (May 26, 2010)

Hey there! I think I'm the biggest old hag on the forum and that's ok by me.

About these stallions: I pride myself on my stallion Nick and his impecable manners and brag about him all the time. I got him when he was just a very young untrained colt and he was worked with from the get go daily. He has never given me one bit of trouble. He was raised by me and my boys who were just kids at the time. However my kids were already previously very horse savvy about handling big horses so they knew how to handle him correctly even at thier young ages. BUTT! He's all boy when it comes to a mare in heat and that is when you will see the writing on the wall and realize what you have gotten yourself into. The manners still have to be in place no matter what and that is nothing but hard work with a knowledgable hand. Even the nicest stallions in the world can turn into a complete moron in seconds. We will worry about these safety issues and cross our fingers and hope for the best. I sure wish if there were a mentor in your neck of the woods they would step forward to work with you.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

Make A Wish Miniatures said:


> By horse size panel fence do you mean Panels like used in a big horse round pen? If so a small mini can get out of those especially if a stallion wants to get to a mare.



they sell them in my area so that goats cant even get through lol!


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## Make A Wish Miniatures (May 26, 2010)

OK, I know the ones you are talking about. Yes that should keep him in.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

Marty said:


> Hey there! I think I'm the biggest old hag on the forum and that's ok by me.
> 
> About these stallions: I pride myself on my stallion Nick and his impecable manners and brag about him all the time. I got him when he was just a very young untrained colt and he was worked with from the get go daily. He has never given me one bit of trouble. He was raised by me and my boys who were just kids at the time. However my kids were already previously very horse savvy about handling big horses so they knew how to handle him correctly even at thier young ages. BUTT! He's all boy when it comes to a mare in heat and that is when you will see the writing on the wall and realize what you have gotten yourself into. The manners still have to be in place no matter what and that is nothing but hard work with a knowledgable hand. Even the nicest stallions in the world can turn into a complete moron in seconds. We will worry about these safety issues and cross our fingers and hope for the best. I sure wish if there were a mentor in your neck of the woods they would step forward to work with you.



i've seen studs at shows behave like morons, they're fine at the trailer but take em in the ring and they go nuts! plus, i think it's typical of all males to act like morons at least 50% of the time




i kinda wish i had a mentor too, i think it would be fun but for now i'm on my own. dont worry guys i'll be careful


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

Make A Wish Miniatures said:


> OK, I know the ones you are talking about. Yes that should keep him in.



ok, good! that's one less worry on my mind!


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## Marty (May 26, 2010)

Thinking back in time, you know, this forum has raised up more than one kid who started out like you, and then went on to be quite the horsewomen.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

Marty said:


> Thinking back in time, you know, this forum has raised up more than one kid who started out like you, and then went on to be quite the horsewomen.



really? who was it?


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## RhineStone (May 26, 2010)

Molly said:


> they sell them in my area so that goats cant even get through lol!


Are you talking about the ones with the 4-6" rectangles? We call them "cattle panels" around here and we have used those for years for our horses of all sizes, mini to draft. The only problem I ever had with one is that it got bent a little on the end, and there were about 1" ends sticking out past the last vertical. Of course, I had a filly find that little spot and rip her girth open in a 1-2" triangle.



We have since trimmed back the ends on the panels. Otherwise, they have worked great even for our mini stallion (since cut and haven't regretted it!). We put the t-posts on the "outside" of the panels so the stud pushed against them.


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## PaintNminis (May 26, 2010)

Also You will want to make sure the mares have a Current Culture and Coggins so they don't Spread Disease to your Stallion if you choose to stand him. if they have some Bad bacteria it can also hinder the mares from getting in foal.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Are you talking about the ones with the 4-6" rectangles? We call them "cattle panels" around here and we have used those for years for our horses of all sizes, mini to draft. The only problem I ever had with one is that it got bent a little on the end, and there were about 1" ends sticking out past the last vertical. Of course, I had a filly find that little spot and rip her girth open in a 1-2" triangle.
> 
> 
> 
> We have since trimmed back the ends on the panels. Otherwise, they have worked great even for our mini stallion (since cut and haven't regretted it!). We put the t-posts on the "outside" of the panels so the stud pushed against them.



no, i'm talking about horse pannels that are made with thicker, what do you call them, um, rings? in the middle. i dont even think a foal could get through them!


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## love_casper (May 26, 2010)

I have been staying on the sidelines through most of this, but as the weather has me stuck inside today, and I for somereason felt compelled to read this entire thread, I might as well say what I've been thinking. Even though the main issue of the thread has been addressed, this applies to all future others as well.



Marty said:


> Thinking back in time, you know, this forum has raised up more than one kid who started out like you, and then went on to be quite the horsewomen.


We ALL started out as precocious young newbies wanting to jump into our new found world of the Mini. Because everyone and his brother who owns minis seems to want to breed them, which you won't find in any other breed, most of the original questions are about how to go about such a thing. And usually when the newbie asks "how" the experienced reply "just don't." The people who reply to the exhuberant young teens are the ones that have been in this for years, and are willing to make themselves appear a bit grouchy to get their message accross. I joined this forum as an excited young 13 year old. I'll be 18 this year. We're all the same - we use too many smilies, share unwanted information, use derogatory slang terms as insults because that's what our generation does, write with txt abbreviations, don't use punctuation or capitalization, reply to topics that children have no business being involved in, and think this whole mini farm thing looks easy. After so many responses making their advice palatable to the newby, the experienced forum member reaches a point where they begin to cut the fluff and simply tell it like it is. Much to the dismay of the youngin, who thinks all posts need to be sugar-coated and sweet sounding or else it's offensive.

The long time forum members, some of which have been involved in minis since before either of us were born, stay here for the love of the Miniature as a breed and its enthousiasts. They say what they say because ultimately it comes down to the individual horses. They aren't as callous as you think, they are guardians of their passion. Just want to make sure that everyone who embarks on breeding (or whatever the said topic is, really!) does it with full knowledge of what they are getting into. The experienced have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. This includes driving, showing, stallion owning, foaling, heck even feeding and stabling. There are many a post of the children - children referring to anyone acting like one, regardless of age - asking straight out how to train something to drive.... notice the responces never include a step by step approach, but advice to seek professional help. Same goes for any type of training, foaling, or whathaveyou.

All one has to do is spend some time reading the Casper story on my (in dire need of an update) website, to know that the breeding barn is no place for a child. On that story, I haven't yet decided whether or not the run-on sentences or ridiculously bad grammar are endearing qualities versus annoying. At any rate, it hasn't been touched since I wrote it, at right around your age. There's almost always some post going on about convincing newbies that breeding isn't what they want to do. What the experience... "hags" if you will... are trying to do is break through the glittering generality that is the newbie's fantasy of having a little foal, to replace it with the truth that goes on with breeding. I was lucky to find someone in my area who was part of a breeding farm. Find someone near you, even pick a forum member that breeds, and get their fatality rates. It ISN'T pretty! You don't even want to think about how many mini mares die during pregnancy, and the high amount of foals that don't make it. As a matter of fact, my very first question on this forum (as a precocious young 13 year old with her first mini) was should I breed her. These wonderful people for whom I am quite grateful for, convinced me that if I couldn't stand the thought of anything happening to her, she shouldn't be bred. It's just to risky. People love their broodmares, but you'll probably find even on the big farms there's that special one that just doesn't get sacrificed. It's nothing personal, it's the facts. Truth burns sometimes lol!

This thread and recent others of its nature have inspired me to go back several years to read what I was posting 4 years ago. Almost every other one of them I was clasping my hand over my mouth... "OMG Did I _actually write that_!?!?!" Myself as well as others my age of that forum generation sounded like a group of annoying gnats! I was quite literally yelling at the screen, just shut up already!!!! Or, You shouldn't have replied to that, I wouldn't even do it these days! Some posts I couldn't even stomach to get through I was annoying myself. Or I'd say "Oh jeez, hope nobody remembers that!" Most of the time I was observing my thoughts and opinions I had back then. Some things have stayed the same. Others I have made a complete 180 change on. Another reason not to start producing more animals at your age... in 2 or 3 years you probably won't even be interested in the same things. (I hear you through the screen, no no I'll always wanna breed minis!) Yeah yeah I thought so to. I thought I knew what type I was going to aim for, what my facility would look like.... in fact I just dug up a sketch I did complete with my want list of horses at the time, and what I wanted to do. It's funny, I'm not interested in a single one of those horses anymore, I don't like that type anymore, I doubt I'll be a bigtime breeder, and I've made 3 or 4 switches of decisions on what I wanted to do when I grew up. Now I have things figured out, and can't help but think where I'd be if nobody knocked sense into me when I was young. That's not a personal attack btw, the child's frontal lobe / decision making opinionated part of the brain isn't even developed until mid 20s. Example: last year while looking for a new big horse I had my heart set on a different breed every day, different discipline. It's ultimately unfair for a bunch of minis to be your guinee pigs.

I was blessed to have several experienced forum members let me bug the crap out of them to help me make decisions and educate me about the industry. Sometimes I didn't listen.... 100% of them present day Me wishes I had. Someday, you'll come back to threads like these and wish you'd changed some things.... and that's called _maturity_. So take this as 9 pages of education for the young you.

Someday one of these people will actually commend you for something good you'll say, and because of the improvement you will have made it wil mean that much more. I remember the first time one of The Hags agreed with something I said.... I screenshotted it and saved the picture - still have it!!!

(One thing that hasn't changed in years - I still can't respond with less than 4 paragraphs. WHich is funny because in reading last night one of my comments to myself was, Goodness dummy, you could've written that in 3 sentences!



)

All in all - to the children reading this: don't take it personally.... *These wonderful mini owners rarely tell you what you want to hear, but they ALWAYS tell you what you **NEED to hear**.*

And to the adults who have known me since I was an overzealous young gnat: *thanks for putting up with me!*


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## happy appy (May 26, 2010)

Well said!


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## Nathan Luszcz (May 26, 2010)

Uhm... fillies can come into heat 9-14 months of age, and can get pregnant. And just because someone else handled the stud easily does NOT mean he won't learn bad habits, or change once a glut of hormones hits him. By brushing off both those points you've shown that you aren't ready at all to house a stallion, never mind manage his breeding... please, please, please get some stallion-experienced help!!!


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## MountainMeadows (May 26, 2010)

Oh Alex,

You made me cry



- that is such a wonderful tribute to all of us Old Hags who want nothing more than for our beloved miniatures to be safe and secure and to lead happy, healthy lives bringing joy to their owners. If I can ever be of any help to you please feel free to call me anytime day or night - THAT is what a committed miniature horse owner does without blinking an eye - we are there for you when you need us - you only need reach out.

((( Hugs to you Alex



))))

Stacy


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## Field-of-Dreams (May 26, 2010)

love_casper said:


> All in all - to the children reading this: don't take it personally.... *These wonderful mini owners rarely tell you what you want to hear, but they ALWAYS tell you what you **NEED to hear**.*


This has to be one of the most succinct and to-the-point statements I have ever read here.











VERY good post, I hope EVERYONE takes it to heart, and not just our junior members.





Lucy


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 26, 2010)

Nathan Luszcz said:


> Uhm... fillies can come into heat 9-14 months of age, and can get pregnant. And just because someone else handled the stud easily does NOT mean he won't learn bad habits, or change once a glut of hormones hits him. By brushing off both those points you've shown that you aren't ready at all to house a stallion, never mind manage his breeding... please, please, please get some stallion-experienced help!!!



i'm not "brushing" off anything, i've talked to my vet, whom has seen many stallions and helped with some breedings as well. she filled me in on what could happen when he gets here so that i can mentally and phisically prepare for anything he could do



just because i'm a "youth" doesnt mean i'm incapable at everything! i know the risks i'm taking and i know the injuries i might get, i'm willing to take these on and work with him on good behavior and ground manners.


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## Irish Hills Farm (May 26, 2010)

Alex,

It has been absolutely wonderful watching you mature into intelligent and elegant speaker/writer/young woman here on the LB forum. I truly enjoy reading what you have to say.


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## Mini Gaits Farm (May 26, 2010)

Wow Alex.....you are well beyond your years....your parents must be extremely proud of you....I am...and don't even know you. Bless you for a wonderful post!!!!!


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## Songcatcher (May 27, 2010)

love_casper said:


> We ALL started out as precocious young newbies wanting to jump into our new found world of the Mini..... I joined this forum as an excited young 13 year old. I'll be 18 this year. We're all the same - we use too many smilies, share unwanted information, use derogatory slang terms as insults because that's what our generation does, write with txt abbreviations, don't use punctuation or capitalization, reply to topics that children have no business being involved in..... After so many responses making their advice palatable to the newby, the experienced forum member reaches a point where they begin to cut the fluff and simply tell it like it is. Much to the dismay of the youngin, who thinks all posts need to be sugar-coated and sweet sounding or else it's offensive....
> 
> All in all - to the children reading this: don't take it personally.... *These wonderful mini owners rarely tell you what you want to hear, but they ALWAYS tell you what you **NEED to hear**.*
> 
> And to the adults who have known me since I was an overzealous young gnat: *thanks for putting up with me!*


I remember back then



and I must say that you certainly have matured since then. You have spoken very eloquently what everyone needs to hear.

Something we should all remember, young or old, we all did things that we cringe at (or should). Not just in regard to horses, but life in general. Sometimes we are fortunate in having people easily forgive us and sometimes we create barriers that can never be broken.

When I was young (many, many years ago) I was taught a poem. I have tried to apply it to my life. Asking questions is good, but worthless unless you listen. Sometimes a person can't hear an answer because they are too busy asking the next question.

A wise old owl sat in an oak.

The more he heard, the less he spoke.

The less he spoke, the more he heard.

Wasn't that owl a wise old bird?


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## Bunnylady (May 27, 2010)

love_casper said:


> We ALL started out as precocious young newbies wanting to jump into our new found world of the Mini. Because everyone and his brother who owns minis seems to want to breed them, which you won't find in any other breed, most of the original questions are about how to go about such a thing. And usually when the newbie asks "how" the experienced reply "just don't."


Alex brings up a valid point here. From reading the earlier posts, I understand that you (MRM) feel that your parents don't take your minis seriously. I can understand your irritation and frustration when you feel that we don't take you seriously, either. I can also understand that you want your animals to be more than just some backyard pets. But if your parents aren't "into" minis, I have to think that you haven't been "into" them terribly long, either. Are you sure you have already developed the eye for a really good mini? You want to be a breeder (who doesn't?) but can you spot the animal with "take it to Nationals" potential? Does this little stallion that you are about to acquire have what it takes to possibly be the next Buckaroo? Are your fillies likely to produce babies that could be that good, or would you be risking their lives to produce middle of the road babies that (on a good day) might barely fetch a price that will cover the feed and vet bills that it cost to get them on the ground? Do you believe your animals are going to make a real contribution to the breed, or are you breeding them just because they happen to come equipped with reproductive organs?

If you have spent much time on this forum, you have surely seen a number of threads about foals that didn't make it, or mares that were lost due to complications. Things are slowing down there now, but I'd suggest spending a couple of foaling seasons hanging out on the Marestare website before committing yourself to the headaches and heartaches of breeding. Just watching and reading can be painful enough, without having to bury the bodies and pay the bills. Even if nothing goes wrong, it doesn't mean that everything will go right, either. I breed rabbits; I regularly get "awesome" and "ho-hum" in the same litter. Bloodlines alone don't impress me much, because I know even show-stoppers can produce only so-so, at least some of the time. Foals with poor conformation can still live 30 years or more, what happens to them?

When I first "discovered" minis, I wanted to breed, too. How can anyone resist the appeal of a fuzzy little foal the size of a Cocker Spaniel? But cruise a few salesboards, and reality begins to rear its ugly head. There are hundreds of minis for sale within an hour or two's drive of me, most in the pastures of "me too" breeders that wouldn't recognise a National Champion if it stepped on their toe. (Of course, it probably wouldn't be in their pasture in the first place, because their breeding animals aren't in that league!) In a world already flooded with mediocre quality minis, where animals with national championships are selling for rock bottom prices, the last thing the mini world needs is for me to jump into the already full breeder pool. You don't have to justify your decision to me, but have you really thought about this? I'm not saying absolutely don't ever get into breeding, more like not now, not yet. Put your passion into training and showing for now, and save breeding for a time when the market can better bear it. You may say "oh, that's alright. The foal will have a forever home with me," but that would mean you may be saddled with that horse until you are my age (yeah, I'm an old hag, too. You realize you may never live that down!



)

Even if minis aren't very big, breeding them involves adult sized decisions, and potential adult sized consequences (not just for you, for the animals, too.) I'm not questioning whether you are capable of handling them, just asking, are you sure you want to? I decided that for me to add more animals to an already burgeoning population would be irresponsible, given the current state of things. You, of course, will make your own decisions; that is part of growing up. I wish you joy in them, whatever they are.


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## JaiteraMiniatures (May 27, 2010)

Songcatcher said:


> When I was young (many, many years ago) I was taught a poem. I have tried to apply it to my life. Asking questions is good, but worthless unless you listen. Sometimes a person can't hear an answer because they are too busy asking the next question.
> 
> A wise old owl sat in an oak.
> 
> ...


I'm one of the "juniors" on the forum, and I have to say I absolutely LOVE that poem



I know their are some things in both the "mini world" and just life in general that you just have to learn on your own, but sometimes if you sit back and learn from others' mistakes and questions you'll learn a lot more with only a fraction of the frustration.

Even though some feelings may have gotten hurt a little throughout this post I must say I think I've learned a lot, and I think others have too...if not, it was a great refresher that not everyone is perfect, and we all have to learn one way or another...whether it be through your own mistakes or watching others'

Hopefully I'm not sounding like a know it all by saying all that, because that's not how it was meant to sound...I'm just saying I've learned far more by listening, but there is NOTHING wrong with learning things your own way. If no one asked questions what would anyone learn?

To Molly, I'll be praying for you and your horses. I hope some wonderful person comes a long and takes you under their wing and teaches you everything you need to know.

Good Luck


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 27, 2010)

Bunnylady said:


> Alex brings up a valid point here. From reading the earlier posts, I understand that you (MRM) feel that your parents don't take your minis seriously. I can understand your irritation and frustration when you feel that we don't take you seriously, either. I can also understand that you want your animals to be more than just some backyard pets. But if your parents aren't "into" minis, I have to think that you haven't been "into" them terribly long, either. Are you sure you have already developed the eye for a really good mini? You want to be a breeder (who doesn't?) but can you spot the animal with "take it to Nationals" potential? Does this little stallion that you are about to acquire have what it takes to possibly be the next Buckaroo? Are your fillies likely to produce babies that could be that good, or would you be risking their lives to produce middle of the road babies that (on a good day) might barely fetch a price that will cover the feed and vet bills that it cost to get them on the ground? Do you believe your animals are going to make a real contribution to the breed, or are you breeding them just because they happen to come equipped with reproductive organs?
> 
> If you have spent much time on this forum, you have surely seen a number of threads about foals that didn't make it, or mares that were lost due to complications. Things are slowing down there now, but I'd suggest spending a couple of foaling seasons hanging out on the Marestare website before committing yourself to the headaches and heartaches of breeding. Just watching and reading can be painful enough, without having to bury the bodies and pay the bills. Even if nothing goes wrong, it doesn't mean that everything will go right, either. I breed rabbits; I regularly get "awesome" and "ho-hum" in the same litter. Bloodlines alone don't impress me much, because I know even show-stoppers can produce only so-so, at least some of the time. Foals with poor conformation can still live 30 years or more, what happens to them?
> 
> ...




i got my first mini at 5, so i've been "in" minis for ten years. i can tell the difference between a good and not-so-good horse



during my search for a stallion a few people emailed me pics of their weanling/yearling colts and i said no way because i could tell they wouldnt add up to what i wanted in the end. i even suggested gelding to a lady who wanted me to buy her yearling leopard appy colt. she said she wouldnt geld him because of his color



that, to me, is just stupid and isnt a good reason for him to be a stud. i cant say my stud will be the next Buckeroo, but i do think, in our area, he will do quite well in the show ring in halter and liberty. as for my mares, my grulla as a yearling took home 5th in mares of all ages. she went up against fully matured, well muscled mares in her aukward(sp?) yearling stage and took home 5th in her first show. i was quite proud



my buckskin yearling will be in her first show june 26th and i think she'll do pretty well.

i believe my minis are of decent quality compared to the horses in my area, i cant say much for anyplace else. i had to go out of state to find show quality for sale, if that helps you understand my area. alot, not all! but alot of people in my area are like the lady with the appy colt, if it has color and a good temperament that's all that matters



i wont be breeding until my mare and stallion both mature and fill out so i can see if they meet what i want to produce and show. i already have what i like in my head and in my backyard(lol!) i do plan on keeping the first foal of both my mares when the time comes, no matter what they are or what they look like. if i dont like how they look i'll keep them but refrian from breeding until i can find/afford better stock.


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## love_casper (May 27, 2010)

I love you guys! Thank you so much for your kindness, it really does mean a lot as I've been looking up to you all for so long. As I mentioned to someone last night, the kids that come here either grow up or leave... and I sincerely wish more of them stuck around to feel the enormous amount of love and support this forum has to offer when give the chance, because it's been _so_ beyond worth it for me!

Huge hugs to my forum family!


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## ruffian (May 27, 2010)

"i wont be breeding until my mare and stallion both mature and fill out so i can see if they meet what i want to produce and show. i already have what i like in my head and in my backyard(lol!) i do plan on keeping the first foal of both my mares when the time comes, no matter what they are or what they look like. if i dont like how they look i'll keep them but refrian from breeding until i can find/afford better stock. "

Now THIS is what I was hoping to hear from you!! THIS is an intelligent, adult response and attitude! Good for you, young lady!

MOG - Michigan Old Hag!


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## midnight star stables (May 27, 2010)

Bunnylady said:


> Alex brings up a valid point here. From reading the earlier posts, I understand that you (MRM) feel that your parents don't take your minis seriously. I can understand your irritation and frustration when you feel that we don't take you seriously, either. I can also understand that you want your animals to be more than just some backyard pets. But if your parents aren't "into" minis, I have to think that you haven't been "into" them terribly long, either. Are you sure you have already developed the eye for a really good mini? You want to be a breeder (who doesn't?) but can you spot the animal with "take it to Nationals" potential? Does this little stallion that you are about to acquire have what it takes to possibly be the next Buckaroo? Are your fillies likely to produce babies that could be that good, or would you be risking their lives to produce middle of the road babies that (on a good day) might barely fetch a price that will cover the feed and vet bills that it cost to get them on the ground? Do you believe your animals are going to make a real contribution to the breed, or are you breeding them just because they happen to come equipped with reproductive organs?
> 
> If you have spent much time on this forum, you have surely seen a number of threads about foals that didn't make it, or mares that were lost due to complications. Things are slowing down there now, but I'd suggest spending a couple of foaling seasons hanging out on the Marestare website before committing yourself to the headaches and heartaches of breeding. Just watching and reading can be painful enough, without having to bury the bodies and pay the bills. Even if nothing goes wrong, it doesn't mean that everything will go right, either. I breed rabbits; I regularly get "awesome" and "ho-hum" in the same litter. Bloodlines alone don't impress me much, because I know even show-stoppers can produce only so-so, at least some of the time. Foals with poor conformation can still live 30 years or more, what happens to them?
> 
> ...


Bunny Lady, I love your post. I share a VERY similar opinion to you on this issue



I think more "breeders" should heed your advice!

On another note, I personally don't see "open" shows a valid merit of show ring worth in comparison to large AMHR or AMHA sanctioned horse shows. Nor do I find _a_(singular) Championship tittle that huge of a selling feature. Some horses from my area are outstanding in quality, and it is common for a GOOD horse to achieve Championship tittles again and again, against plenty of tough competition. HOF's are held by many horses in my area, as some of the best horses/farms are in my area (McCarthy, Buckeye, Taylor Pony Farm, Little Kings Farm etc. are just some of the _huge_ names... There are many more



). So when I look for a horse, I'm looking for something extra special. But that is just me.

Best of luck to each breeder in their search for their perfect breeding herd. It is by no means an easy task!


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## Sue_C. (May 27, 2010)

> On another note, I personally don't see "open" shows a valid merit of show ring worth in comparison to large AMHR or AMHA sanctioned horse shows.


In a way I agree, but on the other hand, I don't.



A breed Championship is nice...very nice...but it depends very much upon how many horses that horse had to beat, to become a Champion. I have known of "National Champions" who've never been in a class of more than four or five horses...in some driving classes, even less.

Now here, in our open shows, we show all sizes of horses together..."A" and "B" horses compete as one, in both halter and driving. My former stallion, at just over 30 inches would regularly go hi-point of the show, _in all classes_, even jumping, roadster and speed events...in classes of 20-24 horses. You can never tell me that doesn't mean more than had he become a Champion at any sanctioned shows competing against horses of only his own size.

Give me the open show do it all versatile horse any day, over a Champion that might of won in ONE class of even 20 horses, that are all of his/her own size.

OOOPS...digressing here, but just had to say that. I do get tired of hearing that a horse isn't "breeding quality" unless it has a sanctioned show Halter Championship.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 27, 2010)

ruffian said:


> "i wont be breeding until my mare and stallion both mature and fill out so i can see if they meet what i want to produce and show. i already have what i like in my head and in my backyard(lol!) i do plan on keeping the first foal of both my mares when the time comes, no matter what they are or what they look like. if i dont like how they look i'll keep them but refrian from breeding until i can find/afford better stock. "
> 
> Now THIS is what I was hoping to hear from you!! THIS is an intelligent, adult response and attitude! Good for you, young lady!
> 
> MOG - Michigan Old Hag!



thanks! that hag thing is gonna stick with me forever isn't it? lol


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## RhineStone (May 27, 2010)

Sue_C. said:


> I do get tired of hearing that a horse isn't "breeding quality" unless it has a sanctioned show Halter Championship.


I bet there are a lot of "backyard" horses that could actually go out and win major halter classes, but don't get shown. But, "the proof is in the pudding". Don't tell me how good your horse is, show it to me!





However, that being said, there are also times that the trends we see in the halter ring don't necessarily follow logical attributes either. Like, for example, I like a performance horse with a _little bit_ of angularity in their hind legs, what some would consider _slightly_ "cow hocked", because I find that _too_ straight horses can't move as well. This is a big reason why many halter horses are not necessarily performance horses and vice versa in the big horse world. Are we just breeding our horses to _look_ at, or do we want them to _do_ something?

This really is a whole other thread, but I agree. If you are going to breed a horse, have a plan for the offspring's future, other than $$$$ that really only turns out to be $ or less. _Do_ something with your horse instead of just "feed it and lead it"!



It's a whole lot more fun!


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## RhineStone (May 27, 2010)

Molly said:


> thanks! that hag thing is gonna stick with me forever isn't it? lol


Well, at least you are known for _something_!



(Just "picking" on you a little bit!)


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 27, 2010)

RhineStone said:


> Well, at least you are known for _something_!
> 
> 
> 
> (Just "picking" on you a little bit!)



hahaha


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## wildoak (May 27, 2010)

> that hag thing is gonna stick with me forever isn't it? lol


Stick around here long enough and one of these days you'll _be_ one of us old hags LOL. It's not such a bad thing to be!





Jan


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 27, 2010)

wildoak said:


> Stick around here long enough and one of these days you'll _be_ one of us old hags LOL. It's not such a bad thing to be!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i plan on stickin around, you cant get ridda me that easy!


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## ~Dan (May 28, 2010)

Boy do I remember the days when I thought no one liked me, I didn't really like many on here cuz I thought they disliked me well since that time I'm proud to say I've made some great freinds thru this forum like love caspedr (alex) morning mist (sydney) and barnbum (karla), and back when I started I was veryyyy naive I thought when my dad was gonna let me get minis ide buy two mares breed them sell the foals and make 5000 bucks, oh boy was I wrong and thank god that never happened, since then I've turned up my nose at breeding and would like to train show and rescue minis instead, and alex, I must say you've become a very dear friend of mine I always enjoy talking with you and when you took me under your wing when were both young kids (I still am darn!) I felt so accepted, and I really miss our converstions, believe me we were all there and we all lear from it, I've expericenced discontempt both on here and in the llama industry I too look back and gasp and gag and smack myself in the noggin and say dan oh dan what on earth were you thinking when you typed that, happens in real life when I look back at all the idiot things I've said to people but all you can do is grow and fly higher because mistakes are made for a reason, to always learn from them, so you can choose to sit and ponder and depress over them (I'm guilty of that often) or brush it off and never make the mistake again and I know I'm souding like a scratched lady gaga cd all you can is learn and grow from them end of story! Soon you will learn to love this forum and be a lb addict (is there a little beginners annoynimous available mary lou?) Minis bring us togethor and unite us all as an industry and lifestlye hobbys pets busniess from all over the world, tghey build freindships and will listen to your problems when they disingrate, minis are not meant to drive us apart (unless your in a driving class) altho we all can't get a long I still belevie everyone no matter how many horses they have or how many years experience they have will always always always have something to contribute not only to the health and happiness of our animals but to the entire droves of people who respond to these threads. Dan


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## tagalong (May 29, 2010)

> none of my mares are "dwarfy", i made 100% sure of that before purchasing


I am curious - how did you "make sure" of that "100%" when even very experienced breeders are often surprised to have a dwarf show up?


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 29, 2010)

tagalong said:


> I am curious - how did you "make sure" of that "100%" when even very experienced breeders are often surprised to have a dwarf show up?



i did ALOT of research before doing any purchases and took pics of minimal dwarfs and full dwarfs with me when i went to see her and compared her to the pictures. she showed absolutely no sign of being a dwarf. she is very perportionate(sp?). also her parents have never produced a dwarf and they have had 6 foals together.


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## tagalong (May 29, 2010)

Molly said:


> i did ALOT of research before doing any purchases and took pics of minimal dwarfs and full dwarfs with me when i went to see her and compared her to the pictures. she showed absolutely no sign of being a dwarf. she is very perportionate(sp?). also her parents have never produced a dwarf and they have had 6 foals together.



Just so you know, a cross can produce 6 "normal" foals and then suddenly a dwarf arrives. At this stage there is no way any of us can be absolutely 100% sure of there being no chance of a dwarf.... and if John Ebert's research cannot determine that, with all due respect I doubt that yours can...

There are also different "types" of dwarfs... some do not become evident until later in life...


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## StarRidgeAcres (May 29, 2010)

tagalong said:


> Just so you know, a cross can produce 6 "normal" foals and then suddenly a dwarf arrives. At this stage there is no way any of us can be absolutely 100% sure of there being no chance of a dwarf.... and if John Ebert's research cannot determine that, with all due respect I doubt that yours can...
> 
> There are also different "types" of dwarfs... some do not become evident until later in life...



Just to add my 2 cents...

This is 100% accurate. Not everyone's eye is as skilled at seeing the subtle signs and then there are the ones that literally show no signs at all, have NO history in the pedigree of it, have many full siblings, and then one day you look out at your field and you're like "O M G! Is that horse starting to show signs?"

You know the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder?" Often the ability to see the dwarfishness in a horse is in someone's eye other than your own. I know. I've had it happen to me. Please search the forum for my long and painful public admission after my dear, well-bred, no history, etc. and EXPENSIVE stallion produced one. This of course was after I also paid for professional training for 2 years and he earned 4 World/National top tens in halter.

It happens and nobody is immune.

I know what you meant by stating your confidence. I'm just encouraging you to keep an open mind and never get comfortable that none of your horses could possible be carriers.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 29, 2010)

StarRidgeAcres said:


> Just to add my 2 cents...
> 
> This is 100% accurate. Not everyone's eye is as skilled at seeing the subtle signs and then there are the ones that literally show no signs at all, have NO history in the pedigree of it, have many full siblings, and then one day you look out at your field and you're like "O M G! Is that horse starting to show signs?"
> 
> ...



omg you mustve been so upset when you got a dwarf from him! i know i wouldve been. as of now she shows no signs, shes just very small lol.


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## Carolyn R (May 29, 2010)

Molly said:


> omg you mustve been so upset when you got a dwarf from him! i know i wouldve been. as of now she shows no signs, shes just very small lol.


Parmela is as good as gold,a top notch breeder in my book. As painful as it was, she had him gelded, I believe she made arrangements almost immediately after he sired a dwarf. Her forum family was here to see her through.

When you've been here long enough, you tend to share in each others joys and miseries.

There is a wealth of info that the forum menbers can provide, they are one of the most outgoing bunch of people you will come across. All one has to do is to ask for there help.


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## Molly's Run Minis (May 29, 2010)

Carolyn R said:


> Parmela is as good as gold,a top notch breeder in my book. As painful as it was, she had him gelded, I believe she made arrangements almost immediately after he sired a dwarf. Her forum family was here to see her through.
> 
> When you've been here long enough, you tend to share in each others joys and miseries.
> 
> There is a wealth of info that the forum menbers can provide, they are one of the most outgoing bunch of people you will come across. All one has to do is to ask for there help.



sorry, but who's Parmela?


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## Boinky (May 29, 2010)

Ok.. call me a sensitive old hag but I have to take GREAT offense (and I know for a fact many other mini owners in Maine do as well) to this girls postings. Considering she said that there are no top quality show mini's in Maine. There are Many breeders and Owners with fine horses, even if they never have been shown at Nationals. Until recently I lived in Maine (where she lives) and I had THREE National top ten driving stallions that also showed well in halter well. I competed at AMHR nationals every year and Between myself and two other people we showed consistently for several years at both sanction AMHR show's and Nationals against top horses traveling great distances and spending great money to do so. I have shown horses for other people from Maine and done well with them as well. INFACT one of them was the breeder who she got a filly from and has repeatedly slandered. I also know that Molly has alienated herself from much of the Maine miniature community by being rude and overbearing to many of the people, in several cases she didn't even know she was doing it, just responding extremely rudly to e-mails of people she did not know about a sale of her horse! Believe me..word gets around fast in such cases! It's not that there ARE no mentors in Maine, It's that she's disrespected so many that they do not want anything to do with her.

I'm very sorry if I sound oversensitive, but I have spent great time, effort and money to have top quality show horses as well as many others, and to be run down and belittled as that is just outrageous. I hope she can understand how badly her reputation is being ruined and how hard it is going to be to change that reputation having offended such a vast majority of her peers!


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## Carolyn R (May 29, 2010)

Molly said:


> sorry, but who's Parmela?


Parmela is "StarRidgeAcres" the post you replied to by saying *"omg you mustve been so upset when you got a dwarf from him! i know i wouldve been. as of now she shows no signs, shes just very small lol."*


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