A Disturbing Trend

[MeganH]

That video is horrible. I had no idea of these 'tricks' people use in shows. The horses do not look to be moving naturally.. it doesn't look good to me at all. So unfair to them.

 

[midnight star stables]

Hi everyone,

First off I want to agree, gingering and abuse should not be tolerated

Some of you know that I show a lot, at at-least 7 or 8 AMHR/ASPC shows a year, and several other Miniature Open shows. I usually attend my area show and try to support the show ring as much as possible. I do not agree with gingering or any other cruel tricks.

I have NOT seen many abusive things at shows, but I have seen a few. I have only seen a horse gingered once in a liberty class. It looked very fake and unrealistic. I have seen the odd case where a handler repeatedly shanks, smacks or pushes their horse, but usually they are working with a rank stallion. I don't respect this, there is a time and place for "training" and shows are not normally the place. I think it is different if a trainer disciplined a horse once, correcting the behaviour, from if the disciplining is extensive to the point of abuse or if the same trainer/owner has numerous horses with the same behavioural issues. You should never be too big to ask for help. I've also seen horses act out, but later "corrected" by working them... hard. I hate seeing a horse worked and worked and worked to "teach" them.

I am lucky that two of the horses on my show string are very familiar with the show ring and well trained. All they need is a verbal reminder and they usually correct them selves. They do not get shanked with the lead or chin chain repeatedly, they don't get smacked with a lead or hit or pushed. They never need it. My horses love to show, they enjoy liberty, jumper, halter and driving, and I feel that it shows with their performance.

There can be a lot of evil at horse shows, but there is also A LOT of good people, who love there horses and care about their well being. My Step-dad and I go to horse shows to have fun and visit with great friends. Horse shows offer more than a ribbon to us, they are our vacation away and we look forward to them.

Don't let one bad apple ruin the bunch.

 

[ahrobertspony]

NOTE OF CAUTION about the Walking Horse Video ....

That is stock footage. DO NOT assume that every horse you see in that video has had anything improper done. In fact, don't assume that ANY horse you see has had anything improper done. The video is nearly slanderous and if I were a trainer or exhibitor in the video and had NEVER been charged or sanctioned for wrong doing, I'd look into taking legal action.

Is soring a horrible thing? YES! Are there rules against it? YES! Should people caught & convicted be punished? YES! However, those who perpetuate half truths, mis-truths and other lies can do just as much damage to any animal or breed.

If you assume that EVERY walking horse person does that ... or every Modern Shetland person uses ginger ... then you seem to like generalizations. By that same token, you must also think that every priest is pedophile .... every liberal a communist ... every Christian a zealot ... every Muslin a terrorist .... etc.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

Thanks for this thread Kay! Pointing out that these practices are unethical and cruel will not stop people from using them, but I guarantee you they will stop if they can see that the negative response to these actions directly affects their business. It is important that buyers know about these things, so they can give their money to the breeders and trainers that are producing healthy, happy and naturally beautiful animals.

 

[RhineStone]

NOTE OF CAUTION about the Walking Horse Video ....

That is stock footage. DO NOT assume that every horse you see in that video has had anything improper done. In fact, don't assume that ANY horse you see has had anything improper done.

I thought the same thing. The untrained eye would think that the Walking Horse head bobbing would indicate soreness, and in most breeds it does, but it is prized in the Walking Horse breed as a desired characteristic in every horse, shown or not. (It actually drives me crazy, though! I couldn't stand having the horse bob in front of me like that.)

The other challenge with that video is that they showed a "natural" Walking Horse that is probably not bred for the show ring, and therefore doesn't have the extreme gait that the show horses do. That doesn't mean that every Walking Horse that isn't weighted up will perform with that "flat" of a gait. It is comparing apples to oranges, like a Single Pleasure mini to a Western Pleasure mini. A lot of that extreme gait is bred into them and "enhanced" with shoes and training.

I'm not condoning any harmful practice, just trying to help those that have never seen a Walking Horse understand that is typical. I'm not fond of that look and would rather show a more naturally-styled animal myself (not checked or jacked up), (and not to be confused with Natural Horsemanship, that is a whole other topic). It takes a whole lot of "unnatural" and expensive shoeing, stalling, training, etc. to produce that high-stepping action, just like checking up minis isn't necessarily "natural" to the horse either. Again, it goes back to judging. People do what it takes to win. If you don't like those practices, quit placing them!

 

[2minis4us]

Can you imagine if the people that gingered the minis or any other animal should be punished by having it done to them ? There are some seriously stupid people out there that have no regard to animals and it makes me angry that they get away with it.

 

[tagalong]

Whoa - bringing up the Big Lick TWHs is always risky - as many will defend that...

IMO there is NOTHING "natural" about the Big Lick Walking horses - nothing. Yes, all horses move like a poorly conformed German Shepherd in back and teeter around on "stacks". There are natural, flat shod Walkers who do have knee lift and a great gait and the natural nod - without the artificiality of the Big Lick look.

I mean, this was a COMING two year old. < link

At least two year olds racing on the track are not carrying high weight and maneouvering around on "heels" at unnatural angles....

We went to a show this past weekend and I saw a 3 month old colt ALONE in a stall with no mare.

How is this "cruel" along the lines of gingering etc.? Did you know the foal involved? Did you know about his situation, maturity, dam? We have a colt here right now at 3 months who would not blink if he was weaned now and taken to Nationals. His mom would not bat an eye, either. He is completely independent and just shares a "room" with his mom at night. He nurses infrequently more out of habit than anything else. Two sips and he walks away for hours.

A few years ago, we showed a weanling that age in a nearby show (left his mom behind and he did not care) and took one along with his mom as well. The solo baby was much more relaxed than the other, who was as well behaved as could be expected but was constantly looking around for Mom.

How do some feel about the training devices used on driving Shetlands and Minis to get that high knee action - the toggles, elastics, built up shoes, hooves etc.? That may be a whole other can of worms!

 

[barnbum]

This kind of stuff makes my stomach hurt, my eyes water and my lips quiver. I don't show, so am very naive about the horrors that happen. It's always a shock to my system to read what people do.

 

[SampleMM]

I'm with Tag, nothing about this type of moment looks "normal". I went to a TWH show one time. It was a big one in Alabama with live music in the center of the ring. I thought I would throw up as the horses looked like their hooves may fall off and their movement looked painful to perform.

ahrobertspony --Just out of curiosity, do you own a TWH?

 

[kaykay]

If you assume that EVERY walking horse person does that ... or every Modern Shetland person uses ginger ... then you seem to like generalizations. By that same token, you must also think that every priest is pedophile .... every liberal a communist ... every Christian a zealot ... every Muslin a terrorist .... etc.

Amy I really respect your opinion but you know I have always been outspoken about gingering. I think the analogy is a little extreme.

I have no idea how walking horses, Arabians, Quarter Horses are treated, so not commenting on that. All I know about are the breeds/horses I own and show.

I absolutely do not think all Modern breeders ginger.

Lets try to keep this thread about miniatures.

 

[2minis4us]

People, you are getting off the topic, we are talking about MINIATURE HORSES here.

 

[REO]

I think that people who put pepper or ginger in the butts of horses for Any reason should have it put up their butts to see how they like it!

Yes some are doing it to miniatures.

 

[Riverrose28]

Ok I have dial up and couldn't watch the twh vedio, but I also don't have my head in the sand and I know this is done by some. I used to show arabs and we never gingered. As far as mini's go, we show alot, haven't shown as much this year as we would have liked to becuase of personal reasons, but I have never seen this practiced at any show I have been to since 1998. It may just be because we are busy getting our own horses prepared, but recently I have been watching others get their horses ready and have asked other owners questions such as about driving, facials, etc. and have not seen this in my area concerning minis. However, I did see it once at an auction, as I was walking down towards the show arena I saw someone do this, I was apalled, as I had not seen this before and havn't seen it since.

 

[denny10012]

This is a disgusting thing to do..but by the sound of a video on the photo/ video Gallery a certain farm seems to be doing it ..im shocked..please let me stand to be corrected

 

[ruffian]

" If the association won't stop it, how is anyone else going to get it done. " The Walking Horse registry is trying to stop this and has been working on it for many years. IMO the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is a joke. There is less than 1% ONE PERCENT of the money taken in going to shelters or to actually help animals. The rest goes to payroll and "benefits" for the top dogs. (unintentional pun)

They are known for creating and STAGING videos to present a message the way they want.

But enough about that.

I have never seen gingering in the Miniature Horse. Guess I'm blind or lucky, but I don't think this is something that needs to be sent as a "the sky is falling" message. I'm sure it is very uncomfortable, even painful, but temporary. How bout we do something about docking tails on draft horses and cropping ears on dogs? That is painful AND permanent.

 

[Jill]

I have never seen gingering in the Miniature Horse. Guess I'm blind or lucky, but I don't think this is something that needs to be sent as a "the sky is falling" message. I'm sure it is very uncomfortable, even painful, but temporary. How bout we do something about docking tails on draft horses and cropping ears on dogs? That is painful AND permanent.

Exactly.

 

[denny10012]

" If the association won't stop it, how is anyone else going to get it done. " The Walking Horse registry is trying to stop this and has been working on it for many years. IMO the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is a joke. There is less than 1% ONE PERCENT of the money taken in going to shelters or to actually help animals. The rest goes to payroll and "benefits" for the top dogs. (unintentional pun)

They are known for creating and STAGING videos to present a message the way they want.

But enough about that.

I have never seen gingering in the Miniature Horse. Guess I'm blind or lucky, but I don't think this is something that needs to be sent as a "the sky is falling" message. I'm sure it is very uncomfortable, even painful, but temporary. How bout we do something about docking tails on draft horses and cropping ears on dogs? That is painful AND permanent.

Go to the photo/ video page and hear it for your self!!!!! docking tails and cropping ears is just as bad , but at the end of the day would you like to run around with pepper up your arse.... i wouldnt !

 

[Tremor]

This is a disgusting thing to do..but by the sound of a video on the photo/ video Gallery a certain farm seems to be doing it ..im shocked..please let me stand to be corrected

I saw/heard that as well. Another video seems to have it as well. The tail set does NOT look natural.

 

[NickelsChram]

There is always some kind of abuse in any breed show or discipline. But I never even thought about miniatures being gingered. I mean yes many people like/ want the more refined more Arabian style mini but is it really that important to have their tails up(I mean like way high up like Arabians are known for so correct me if i am wrong). Yes it looks pretty and if you have a horse that does it great, but I have only seen one mini who does it naturally and only when he is excited like when the pretty neighbor mare walks by and he wants to say hi. I never even thought about it, my mini doesn't do it and I haven't seen anyone elses at our shows holding their tails up. But I show with a small local club. maybe its more prevalent in higher up shows but I don't know anyone locally who really even cares about how they hold their tail. I guess I didn't know that how they carry their tail was important enough that some one would ginger a mini to get it.I really couldn't care less about how they carry their tails but instead how well built they are and how well they behave. just seems like super pointless reason to hurt your poor horse for, but i think that's true of any show abuse. Poor little baby's.

 

[Jill]

What photo / video page are you all talking about?