Advice on how to handle a situation

[barnbum]

Ugh, sometimes I really think selling stinks. I think I'm getting too soft for this. Too soft for breeding myself, too soft for others to breed horses from my farm, too soft to handle all the heartaches that come with these little guys.

Exactly... been there..stopped breeding and selling. Too hard to make the decisions--too hard to let them go to even perfect places. Good for you for saying no.

When I had a filly with an off bite for sale--my ad said pet quality only. When people called about her--which they did a LOT because she's gorgeous--I asked if they planned to breed her and many said "Yes!" Then I said I wouldn't sell her to them. They acted surprised.

When I was selling Jazz some folks came to meet him--but it was obvious the woman didn't really like Jazz. Even if she had decided to get him I never would have sold him to them.

Good luck--at least this is as simple as saying thanks for your interest, but NO.

 

[Suzie]

We were in a similar situation this past year. The "buyers" hounded us to sell a stallion we had. When I did some research on the situation, we decided not to sell him at any price to them really. It can get uncomfortable and although I did not state exactly why to the potential buyer, we just left it as "he is not suited for your situation" and the horse stayed with us. Later we did have a wonderful buyer who put him in a much better situation for breeding. The original "buyers" left in a snit (yes they even came to the farm to buy with a horse trailer in tow-) but like you said earlier, they were not really "buyers" for me anyway and so no loss on my view. I don't like hurting feelings or disappointing folks, but I am the only one who can speak for my animals. If he was at an auction, I would take my chances (and I will be the first one to admit I have no-saled my share of horses over the years because of the final bidder....and took them back home.) I will give away a horse to a good home rather than sell one to a bad home.

I am a major softie when it comes to selling now days. I can't bring myself to place my horses in a bad situation anymore (even if I am not originally aware that it will become one). Therefore, we had personally made the decision to not breed for anyone but ourselves for a while. With this economy, I worry even more. Some horses will be here as long as we can possibly keep them because I know if they left here someone would either breed them to a huge stallion or place them back in a bad situation that we took them out of years ago. Some would not, but I can't rest at night not knowing. I love breeding, but hate selling and we have plenty to work with now, so my mares and stallions will just have to do some wishfull thinking for a while longer.

 

[supaspot]

if the stallion was merely poorly conformed but it was an otherwise good home I would possibly let her go but if he is siring dwarfs the answer would be a definate no ..but Id tell them why but in as gentle a way as possible

 

[minie812]

Well for what it's worth...Your horse-your decision

 

[lil hoofbeats]

No Korina.. it would be hard for me to tell someone their horse is not quality.. but that is just me.. I am afraid to hurt feelings..

BUT... Some people do not have a problem telling people.. Has to be a way to let them know without hurting their feelings.. right??

You are right Mary Lou. I have a problem telling them to. Who is to say that they are not breeding exactly what they like?? Just because i do not like longer heads does not mean somone else will not like them, the bit sits a little better in the mouth of a horse that is a little longer from the eye to the nostril.

I like a horse completely straight in the back legs, but i could never sell that to a person looking for a working horse, as they are looking for a performance type back end that can "sit down and pivot."

I do not think anyone intentionally breeds dwarfs. However one of the most loving horses i ever had the privledge of knowing was a dwarf. Does she have value? YOU BET SHE DOES! Maybe just not in everyones "expert" opinion.

When i have visited someones farm, either virtually or in person, i have felt priveledged to be there, these people are KIND to allow me to see thier breeding programs, how they do things, horses they own, and breed. I will in NO WAY INSULT THEM, by telling them thier horses are not good enough.

If you do not want to sell someone your horse, you DONT have to! That is the beauty of it. Please do not insult someone that has graced your door by inquiring about a horse that you own, then telling them their breeding program is not good enough for your horse.

Who is to say that your horses are any better than any one elses horses?????

To tell someone thier horse is not quality, and their breeding program is not as good as yours takes a very arrogant person.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

You are right Mary Lou. I have a problem telling them to. Who is to say that they are not breeding exactly what they like?? Just because i do not like longer heads does not mean somone else will not like them, the bit sits a little better in the mouth of a horse that is a little longer from the eye to the nostril.

I like a horse completely straight in the back legs, but i could never sell that to a person looking for a working horse, as they are looking for a performance type back end that can "sit down and pivot."

I do not think anyone intentionally breeds dwarfs. However one of the most loving horses i ever had the privledge of knowing was a dwarf. Does she have value? YOU BET SHE DOES! Maybe just not in everyones "expert" opinion.

When i have visited someones farm, either virtually or in person, i have felt priveledged to be there, these people are KIND to allow me to see thier breeding programs, how they do things, horses they own, and breed. I will in NO WAY INSULT THEM, by telling them thier horses are not good enough.

If you do not want to sell someone your horse, you DONT have to! That is the beauty of it. Please do not insult someone that has graced your door by inquiring about a horse that you own, then telling them their breeding program is not good enough for your horse.

Who is to say that your horses are any better than any one elses horses?????

To tell someone thier horse is not quality, and their breeding program is not as good as yours takes a very arrogant person.

Then splash me all over with arrogance because I do believe there are people who purposely breed for dwarves and I would NEVER knowingly subject any mare to the possibility. If you've ever seen what it can do to the insides of a mare to try and foal a dwarf I can't imagine you'd support the continued breeding of them.

I'll gladly take the heat if it means saving a mare from that heck. Anyday, everyday. I'm a big girl and I've got big girl pants.

 

[joylee123]

Parmela, You are right,honesty is the best policy. If it goes further, just as nicely as you can, say "I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I see signs of Dwarfism in your stallion and I'm concerned if you are purchasing my mare to breed that this cross may produce a dwarf foal and I am not willing to perpetuate dwarfism in miniatures......" There are ways to gently tell them your concerns, but be honest as you have already seemed to come to the conclusion to be

Joy

 

[lil hoofbeats]

As i stated before. You can sell your horse to anyone you choose. If you do not think this is an appropriate home, for what ever the reason may be, by ALL means do not sell your horse to them.

But to take it a step further and "help" someone by telling them the horses they are producing are substandard, and inferior. And they are not "good," "responsible" horse breeders such as yourself is an insult...and borderlines on just plain bad manners.

Its really saddening that people can be so harsh and cruel to one another, my heart hurts for them, and i hope that one persons "expert" opinion does not stop them from enjoying and loving their miniature horses, and all the wonderful experiences they provide.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Parmela, You are right,honesty is the best policy. If it goes further, just as nicely as you can, say "I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I see signs of Dwarfism in your stallion and I'm concerned if you are purchasing my mare to breed that this cross may produce a dwarf foal and I am not willing to perpetuate dwarfism in miniatures......" There are ways to gently tell them your concerns, but be honest as you have already seemed to come to the conclusion to be

Joy

Joy, those are excellent words. They did email me again so I think I'm going to use your suggestion of how to approach it. It may offend them but I'd much rather do that and maybe "wake them up" than see another horse suffer. And although I will probably be wasting my breath, I will know that I did my part by speaking up for an animal that can't speak for itself.

I will sleep just fine tonight.

 

[joylee123]

Joy, those are excellent words. They did email me again so I think I'm going to use your suggestion of how to approach it. It may offend them but I'd much rather do that and maybe "wake them up" than see another horse suffer. And although I will probably be wasting my breath, I will know that I did my part by speaking up for an animal that can't speak for itself.

I will sleep just fine tonight.

:yeah

:yeah

 

[Debby - LB]

As i stated before. You can sell your horse to anyone you choose. If you do not think this is an appropriate home, for what ever the reason may be, by ALL means do not sell your horse to them.

But to take it a step further and "help" someone by telling them the horses they are producing are substandard, and inferior. And they are not "good," "responsible" horse breeders such as yourself is an insult...and borderlines on just plain bad manners.

Its really saddening that people can be so harsh and cruel to one another, my heart hurts for them, and i hope that one persons "expert" opinion does not stop them from enjoying and loving their miniature horses, and all the wonderful experiences they provide.

well said Julie!

 

[Sandee]

I had a breeder refuse to sell me a horse when we first got started. He said he felt that his horse was a driving horse and I didn't know anything about driving at the time. A few years later that horse has changed hands and is still driving but I'm doing quite well in the driving division myself. So he was honest but no one can forsee what the future will bring.

I respected him for his honesty even though I regretted not getting the horse. It is one that I would have liked to have had but by the time she came up for sale again she really didn't fit in with the driving I was doing.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Then splash me all over with arrogance because I do believe there are people who purposely breed for dwarves and I would NEVER knowingly subject any mare to the possibility. If you've ever seen what it can do to the insides of a mare to try and foal a dwarf I can't imagine you'd support the continued breeding of them.

I'll gladly take the heat if it means saving a mare from that heck. Anyday, everyday. I'm a big girl and I've got big girl pants.

I have been waiting ages to use that emoticon, thank you (yes, I am am sad)

Seriously, this is not arrogance.

Do we all just sit here then, and only give an opinion of something that is very wrong (this is not a badly conformed horse, this is a horse with a congenital fault. What if it had badly slipping stifles?) if we are publically invited to do so??Well, as you are all aware, that is not me. It is a really good job that Parmela has the chance to do this "on paper" and not face to face as you have time to sit and think it out and say it as gently as you can. I had a dwarf offered to me as a breeding animal, a filly, being offered openly as something to bring size down. Did I tell them she was a dwarf? Of course I did. The price she was, I could not afford to buy her out of the breeding circle, but they went on offering her. When advice is offered quietly, and privately, the other person is free to ignore it.

And of course, I have told people openly, as I have someone who is paid to follow me around with a foot extractor. This time, however, a number of people told me they wished they had the courage (not courage in my case I can assure you, merely the mouth bypassing the brain) to say what I had said as they had wanted to for years. In my defence I had been asked for my opinion.

Did this person stop breeding? Nope.

Some people just do not want to learn.

A question of likes/dislikes is not the same as this. If it were merely that the horse was not to Parmela's taste and she did not want her name on the subsequent foals pedigree, then just don't sell them the mare and keep your opinion to yourself. But something that is potentially damaging to the mare and the foal?

I would speak up.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Parmela, if you are going to tell these people that their horses are inferior and not up to your standards, please also tell them that there are others that would never insult them, or tell them how to spend their money, or what the "best" horse to have is .

I sincerely hope they are not aware of this forum, and are not watching what people are saying about the horse/horses they raise and own.

Please let them know that they are kind people in this horse industry, who will welcome inquires of any type. We welcome everyone( including people on this forum who do not share my views) everyone is treated with great respect. Let them know that if I, or anyone representing my farm (Lil Hoofbeats) (and many others that have PM me) ever visits, via website or in person, that I/We will be nothing but grateful, that they took the time to show me their farm/stock.

Please let them know that their are people who will welcome them, not judge, not criticize, and not condemn them for their choice in horses.

I am proud to be one of those people!!!!!!

Julie Sherrill

Lil Hoofbeats Farm

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I have been waiting ages to use that emoticon, thank you (yes, I am am sad)

I had a dwarf offered to me as a breeding animal, a filly, being offered openly as something to bring size down. Did I tell them she was a dwarf? Of course I did. The price she was, I could not afford to buy her out of the breeding circle, but they went on offering her. When advice is offered quietly, and privately, the other person is free to ignore it.

And of course, I have told people openly, as I have someone who is paid to follow me around with a foot extractor. This time, however, a number of people told me they wished they had the courage (not courage in my case I can assure you, merely the mouth bypassing the brain) to say what I had said as they had wanted to for years. In my defence I had been asked for my opinion.

Did this person stop breeding? Nope.

Some people just do not want to learn.

Rabbitsfizz, Thank you for reading this thread, and thank you for taking time to post, this helps me learn, and that is something i am always willing to do. I read what you posted, and i was just wondering if you told these people quietly and private that their horse was a dwarf, how did so many people know that you had told them their horse was a dwarf? and wished they had had the courage to tell them themselves?

Did i mis read?

 

[Debby - LB]

Jane I don’t think the people in question “publicly invited” a critique of their stock or asked Parmela if she thought her horse would be a good match for their stallion etc.. if I missed that I’m sorry. If they asked your advice then by all means tell them “I do not think they would make a good match”. If they want to know why the two horses would not make a good breeding match then tell them that the neck is too short, head is too big… if they are thick skinned enough to inquire further about your feelings then point out that some of the conformation flaws are what you see as dwarf characteristics. Be open for discussion IF THEY ASK.

 

I very much agree with the reasoning behind this post. I hold Parmela in great esteem as far as her integrity and breeding program goes However my feelings are if you want to critique the people’s stallion as part of the buying process then you should make that known on your sales advertising…maybe “Please be aware that I will scrutinize your breeding program for dwarfism characteristics before considering placing this mare.” ..or something to that effect.

 

I would not put a horse up for public sale and then have to worry about who was going to inquire. To wait until someone inquires and then dig around and pick apart their horses, make it public then inform them they are breeding dwarf traits would come off as being arrogant in any scenario I can see.

 

[Mini Gaits Farm]

I find this entire initial post disturbing. What entitles any of us to critique another's breeding program, if we are not asked to do so. The most important aspect in selling horses is to sell them to someone that will take good care of them...ie...feeding, worming, vet, farrier, vaccination, dentistry....etc..... I am most in agreeance with Debby and Julie with my opinion on this. Who is to say what will happen to this mare in the future. You may sell her to what you "think" is the perfect home only for them to not care for her properly and pass her off to the first people who come along and then those people breed her to a dwarf or whatever else. Honestly...if I were that concerned...I would keep the mare. When we sell horses, their future is out of our hands. Yes...we "try" to put them in the best home that we can....but it doesn't always work out that way. Best of luck to all involved with this. I also hope the potential buyers are not members of LilBeginnings. I would be crushed at first and then furious later if I found this post and knew that I was the one in question.

 

[cretahillsgal]

I think a major point that is being overlooked here is that this stallion does not just "exhitbit dwarf characteristics" or "have poor conformation". Those things are opinions. Not facts. It has been stated that this stallion has produced dwarf foals. So it is certain that he is a carrier. That makes a big difference to me.

Correct me if I am wrong Parmela.

 

[Mini Gaits Farm]

Well...I am not going to throw any names out here...because it is not my place to do so....but all I have to say about that is that is a good darn thing that a very reputable breeder in the miniature horse industry did not give up on and incredible miniature horse, because he produced a dwarf. She learned the proper way to breed him. If she would have gelded him when the dwarf was born, the miniature horse world would be missing literally "hundreds" of World Champions. This is a fact.

 

[HGFarm]

I think the OP was basicly asking for a way to advise the folks inquiring that she didnt want to sell them the mare. Perhaps just saying something to the effect of 'I am thinking about removing her from the sale list' or something generic- without hurting their feelings or pointing out the defects of their herd. Could they possibly tell you they were not going to use her for breeding when they really are? Likely, so I would not even ask, as it is an open ended question that could invite an untruthful answer.

If they were able to see the terrific faults with their current stallion, I am sure they would be gelding or replacing him with a better one, since so many nice ones are available at such reasonable prices. Since this is not the case, I dont know how much they are really 'in to' upgrading their herd or breeding stock.

Parmela, I think you know the answer on whether to sell or not, it's just how to get out of it gracefully. I dont know of any way to do that, as I am sure if turned down, they are going to ask why.