Anyone else get an email from Martha Hickham

[Kitty]

I agree that the withers may be the fairest way to measure and people need to stop stretching. I have seen it alot and just shake my head. They are going to be what they are going to be. But in AMHR I have seen alot of the stewards ask them to square the horses up. WAY TO GO!!!!

But people need to be careful of what they say because they may have done the same thing years ago and guilty is guilty now matter how long ago it was.

I pulled a horse from a trainer that had my horses hoofs so long he would fit in the next class because his class size was filled with another horse he was training. So it can go both ways. Neither of which is fair to the horse.

 

[Reble]

Not suprised

The owners are too blame.

Starts at their local shows, and so on and so on and so on.

 

[HGFarm]

I agree, YEAH ED!!!!

No matter if they are Minis or where they are measured to- the mane, the withers or whatever, folks are going to try to find a way to cheat. The POA's have the same problems and they measure to the withers.

That is ridiculous that the horse has to be protested beforehand- who would know until many actually get INTO class and see what they are up against. I am not going to spend time running around looking for oversized horses that MIGHT be in my class. Good grief!

I am thoroughly disgusted that this continues. If the horse is over, go to the next category. If it's over 34, show at AMHR, or as someone said- stay home.

I have had mine measure differently on different shows, depending on feet, weight and how nervous they were, but not 2"- one at most was about 3/4" if I remember correctly. Upon letting him calm down some- he came down to within about 1/4" of his 'normal' size.

I understand that some folks may measure differently, and you may get different measurements at each show depending on many things, but if the horses are stood up like they are supposed to be, and not falling over from being stretched so far, it would at least be within reason.

I dont know how these folks get by with it- I have yet to be allowed to measure in at a show with the horse at all angles to fake the final result.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I got this letter via email as well........and while I don't show AMHA I've always wondering (or thought it quite silly) for you to have a protest a horse BEFORE it enters the ring.

Are you suppose to go protroll around and see if you see horses that are tall, or what?

AMHR pretty sure you have to have a horse IN the class to protest, makes sense right? You see the horse, out with other horses (some of which you may "personally" know the height of) see one that towers over, bingo if you want, file a protest.

But AMHA you have to protest before it ever sets foot into the public eye

AMHR you MUST BE IN THE CLASS in order to protest(you cant be on the sidelines and see something that isnt right and then protest you would have to find someone actually participating in the class) and only have till the end of the session (at Nationals) or I think 2 hours after a class in a regular show to do so.

I do think that since AMHA posts all the heights of the horses it does make sense to be able to protest if little rocket was showing all year with you in your area in the say 32-34 and then suddenly as in the under 30.

I dont show AMHA either but I can see how it makes sense to get it taken care of BEFORE the class starts that way it cant be said it was something done to move a horse up if one is taken out maybe?????

 

[angel_cowgirl]

AMEN!!

And thats exactly how it should be, an outside source should measure, groups of people who have been trained properly but have no personal interest in the shows and won't back down if someone bullies them - cause they don't care where a horse measures. I've heard this idea before and think its a great idea. It's a shame that those within the organization can't just buck up and be honest but if they can't then we need to do the next best thing and go to other unbiased sources.

There's so many sub-issues involved here. I just feel so sad that the leadership and members of this organization can't follow its rules, that are in black and white (the rulebook). It mostly saddens me because I still consider myself a young member of the organization, but if this is what the other young members and youth see going on then we can't expect anything better when we get old enough to be in the leadership positions because we don't know any better - because this will be "how its been" run for years.

 

[Cathy_H]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone besides we little guys got irritated enough to start squealing.

We need leaders that are held to a higher standard and can be counted on to do the right thing.

Our supply is now greater than the demand and we know what that does to our market

..... Not a good feeling when the scales are NOT balanced is it?

we are ticking off our legitimate breeder / exhibitor and they are not coming back

- Got that right! ..... We've been AMHA members since 1985 & showed at 5-6 AMHA yearly shows until about 2003. We kept hanging on waiting for fairness & equality - same old song & dance.

Our management states that this rule will cause havoc with the show and that it may be abused just to avenge rather than to make things right

........ So abuse it!!! OH! .... If that is what it takes then so be it! The first year would be a circus but once word got around the following years would run smoother.

This new rule is designed to get people to put their horses in the right class and if they are to big, then they should leave them home. The board is going to try and overturn this rule.

. Why are we not suprised to hear this!!!

We should all be for the betterment of our association

- - - Been saying that since the 1980's............. Let the feathers fly - perhaps the bigger birds can do more than we little ones were able to.

 

[justagirl]

Bravo ED!!!

Since now the measuring is being videotaped and stretching is being called, I noticed a "new" phenomenon. I saw numerous horses being measured while at the World that were with their front legs spred so wide that it was a wonder they could stand. It doesn't show on camera, but I guarantee that a person would NEVER set up the horse in the ring like that. One I saw had almost eighteen inches between his front legs, and it WASN'T because of a big broad chest! It was because a cheater was at the lead.

I'm still very new to showing miniatures , but I know when I go to have my horse measured , I'm not allowed to set my horses feet . So if this is how it's supposed to be , how are these horses ending up with the feet so far apart ? In 30 years of owning horses I've never seen one that stood that way naturally.

So whoever was doing the measuring was allowing this AND from what I understood , the people doing the measuring were the same folks that teach other stewards how to measure .... am I incorrect ?

 

[wpsellwood]

Go Ralphie!!

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Our existence in the equine world is based on being known as a breed of horse that measures 34" and under. If you read our rule book and the articles of incorporation, it is plain to see that the forefathers of this association declared that an AMERICAN MINIATURE HORSE is 34" and under. This is what sets us apart from other registries and helps produce a market for legitimate Miniature Horses.

You lost me when you had to say "this is what sets us apart from other registries and helps produce a market for legitimate Miniature Horses". I'm thinking AMHA/ASPC market is doing very well, better then AMHA's. Maybe some of the 'tude should stop.

I know nothing to do with measuring........just sick of the 'tude. I'll go feed my horses, my miniature horses and shetland ponies now.

 

[wcr]

I was at a combined A/R a while back, we had a filly that almost didn't make her class in measurement. During the class there was the winning filly that clearly towered over the rest of the class. Surprise, owned by an AMHA president. During the R portion of the show I brought out a horse that consistently measures 34.5. I had a different AMHA president and an AMHA offical tell me to remeasure the horse as I could get it under 34. I am being honest to show the horse where it belongs and was offended to have officials of AMHA tell me to cheat.

 

[ClickMini]

That is all fine and dandy, and I agree with getting tough on measuring. However, I certainly do not understand why hardshipping was brought into the discussion. For heck's sake, this is a HEIGHT breed. I have FOUR HORSES, including 3 mares and a stallion, that I plan to hardship in the next five years to the tune of $3000, as they are eligible. All are well within the 34" maximum. I have no problem standing them up for anyone to check. Let's see. Those are all breeding animals. How many foals will be registered as a follow-on to the original $3000. And by the way, why do we have to wait until age 5 to hardship? I can tell you right now, that if they were eligible in 2008 as hardshipped animals, I would also show my stallion and two of my mares in AMHA shows, I would also try to qualify them to take to the world show. That is quite a chunk of change the registry is passing up that I am ready and willing to send their way. Who is the registry? IT IS US... Instead I will take these nice individuals to Tulsa to compete, after they qualify at AMHR shows...THIS IS COMING UP FOR VOTE AT THE 2008 AMHA MEETING, I PLAN TO BE THERE TO VOTE ON IT.

If AMHA stops all hardshipping, I will show strictly AMHR from here on out. I won't even agonize about what to do like I have this year. It will be a done deal for me. I have quality AMHA/AMHR horses and I have quality AMHR horses that are all under 34". Legitimately. I bought them from a farm who got disgusted with AMHA years ago and quit registering with them. Won't it be a shame if more farms go that way...or maybe we won't have to worry at all at that point because we will only have one registry to deal with.

I personally really like the AMHA registry, and that is why I agonize over whether to show my AMHA string in the R shows so that I can show my whole gang, or whether to leave some home and just show A. I am on the fence right now for the '08 season. I bet I am not an isolated case.

edited to add a question. How about horses that measure right on the money for a height? Say your horse is 32" tall. Can it show in either or? 30-32" or 32"-34"??? Maybe that is how SOME horses are able to show in two divisions. Not all.

 

[whitney]

AMHA is a registry for 34" and UNDER.

If you have a horse that is over, no matter how perfect it is, it is STILL over, don't show it, or hardship into AMHR where it BELONGS and show it there.

Or if you do show it in AMHA, do it knowing that that horses AMHA papers may be revoked ON THE SPOT. I believe that is what they were trying to do this year and why some horses were not shown. Proves that this WORKS keep up the good work.

To help in accurately measuring post 4 cameras front, back, and both sides. Cameras and video recorders are CHEAP, AMHA can afford it. Horses should be handled by the measuring team not the owners or trainers.

Protested horses should be measured at the FIRST available break and in the main arena, with owners and trainers present, results should be announced over the PA system, cheaters don't like to be put in the spotlight, no matter what their credentials. I also believe that those that file protests to get back at others, are penalized if the protested horses measure in the protest fees double after every legal horse measured. So protest away AMHA maybe able to make up the fees for smaller class sizes.

Once the Association makes a decision they need to make the members aware and then start implementing FIRMLY to make examples of those that want to "test" the system.

GOD I love these "LITTLE" guys and want them to stay that way, with a registry all their own.

Edited to add: PLEASE DO NOT close hardship, the AMHA does not have enough really outstanding moving animals nor the refinement............ outside blood is GOOD!

For those that show alot. Are the judges not held accountable for placing oversized horses?

 

[albahurst]

My understanding is that height classes are 'cut off' at the exact inch, then the next height class is the 'Over 30"-32", for example. Then, the next height class is the Over 32"- 34". Both classes do not include the 32" measurement. You cannot be in two height classes at one time. Hope this is helpful.

I had a blast at Worlds this year! The people were great and the horses were beautiful! It was a dream come true for me! These horses have given me a reason to get up in the morning (although the reasons changed when I slept in a stall at Worlds!!! And, that was five! Horses love to bang their buckets on the stall walls at nights OH! ). I am glad to see measures taken for the integrity of the association. I am not going to let it all spoil the fun for me, however.

Peggy

 

[Fred]

I am one of the little guys and I can't tell you how many times if I have a horse right on the line at the top of its height in a class and had it be the smallest horse in the class!!! Two of my mares are 32 inches ON THE LINE and I have taken them in the 30 to 32 class and been the smallest horses in the class. Mind you this isn't just AMHA as I show mostly AMHR so its both registries. Its not just the officials or the trainers its also up to the owners to be fair and honest of what you have going in the ring in the proper class, as an owner YOU KNOW WHAT HEIGHT YOUR HORSE IS. The owner is the one paying the trainer and the owner is also the one who is a member of the association and has the ability to kick out any official that is not playing by the rules by voting them out. If the trainer wants to put the horse in a lower or higher height class the owner has the right to say no.

 

[Belinda]

Just wanted to ad that while Ed made some good points, I took offense to his statement about the Legitimate Miniatures

As if the over divison is not legitmate ?????? I have over ones in training that come from 4 or 5 generations of under 34" some way under , and they end up 34 1/2 or bigger.. And not just one bloodline but many !!

And also He called several cheaters.. He failed to mentioned that he also had some that were protested and measured out OH! OH! After they had already measured . So how is this any different ?

I vote for measuring on the withers like all the rest of the equine world including Ponies !!!!

And Erica was correct , In AMHR to protest height you must have a horse entered in the class with the one you are protesting , just saves alot of these witch hunts !!

! And I hate to say but I feel that is what happened at AMHA this year.. If you were not on the hunted list you were ok,, as there were plenty of large horses still left in the classes that could have easily been protested..

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Both registries really need to tighten up measuring. Get an uninterested party to measure, someone who really doesn't care who you are or what you do. Video tape it.

The rules are there, they need to ENFORCE them.

My WCP driving gelding is 34 1/4" - JUST over the limit. He was the smallest horse in his class, yet we had someone go over to the stewad and DEMAND to know how tall he was just before the Stakes class at Nationals this year to make sure he wasn't over!

We know they were just playing mind games.... but really? (It didn't work- we beat them anyways..)

Lucy

 

[Kitty]

Thank you Belinda I was thinking the same thing about several of your points and trying to find a nice way of saying it.

My daughter would be very offended if someone said her over gelding was not legitimate. He was from two definitely under 34 inch horses but kept GROWING to 36. And placed 2 times this year as a Top Ten in some huge classes.

 

[MountainMeadows]

All I can say about the letter from Ed is:

Those who live in glass houses should not cast stones.

Stacy

 

[SweetOpal]

Yes thank you belinda, I have a mare who was amha/amhr and her sire is well known in the A world, however she is 36" so I guess in Ed's eyes should she should not exist!

Also thank you for pointing out his horses too were MEASURED INCORRECTLY! I love it when people call the kettle black without inspecting thier own pot!

Jennifer

 

[wpsellwood]

I have to say is well done Ed and for this comment

Also thank you for pointing out his horses too were MEASURED INCORRECTLY! I love it when people call the kettle black without inspecting thier own pot!

all I have to say is that he had no problem taking his horses back over there to be remeasured. Where were the others?