Anyone else get an email from Martha Hickham

[minimomNC]

Doesn't matter if he did have horses protested, the point of his letter is still the same. And the point isn't are miniature horses legitimate if they are over 34" the point is something needs to be addressed about measuring.

 

[Minimor]

I think it's a very good letter. I wish someone was making the same sort of noise over AMHR measuring!

As for his getting "caught" first--well, he didn't get away with it I guess, and why should anyone else? If he puts the push on this and gets things cleaned up, he will surely have to abide by the rules just like everyone else will. That must surely be a good thing.

I fully believe that protests should be allowed after the class. That way if a horse is protested and then measures out, he's out. He doesn't get to be moved into a different class, he's just OUT. His award is stripped & he's DQ'd. If someone--trainer, owner, whoever--tries to get that horse measured into the wrong class, why should the horse get protested in advance & so give the owner/trainer the opportunity to move him into the proper class & still get to show? (That is how it works, is it not?) Maybe they think they're being punished that way, but I don't see that as punishment. Punishment is being DQ'd. Maybe the horse shouldn't just be DQ'd from the one class--he should be DQ'd from the whole show! There'd be a good one!

 

[kaykay]

Karen (minimom) I normally always agree with you but I strongly disagree that its not about a horse 34" or over being illegitimate. This has always been AMHA's standing (they say consistently anything over 34" is NOT a Miniature HOrse) and yet they name World National Champions that are clearly over 34"

To AMHA I say you cant have it both ways.

 

[minimomNC]

But again Kaykay it goes back to measuring. If AMHA wants to call only a horse 34" and under a miniature horse then they darn well need to make sure that the horses showing do not exceed that height. That I agree with you on.

 

[txminipinto]

The problem with measuring at the withers is that some of our own stewards have a hard time finding the withers! They are not half way up the horse's neck! OH! How about we measure at the lowest point of the back?

Or the height of the hock.....knee......elbow.....anyone?

 

[Mona]

The problem with measuring at the withers is that some of our own stewards have a hard time finding the withers! They are not half way up the horse's neck! OH! How about we measure at the lowest point of the back?

Or the height of the hock.....knee......elbow.....anyone?

It doesn't matter HOW they're measured, WHERE they're measured, or by WHO they're measured...there will ALWAYS be problems with people trying every trick in the book to measure how they WANT their horse to measure. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this will never stop, never change, as long as we remain a "height" breed.

 

[Yaddax3]

Measure at the withers? Wouldn't that gut the AMHA registry? Any horse that currently measures 32 to 33 inches could measure over 34 inches if the withers are used as the standard.

Also ...

While my family has both AMHA and AMHR horses -- we show mostly AMHR -- I'm weary of the arrogance of some AMHA-only exhibitors who claim any horse over 34 inches isn't a Miniature. The funny thing is, some of the folks who've made that comment appear to have a few of those 34-plus inch horses that, if measured properly, would be B horses in AMHR.

Until you eliminate cronyism and favortism, you will have this problem with measurements.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I think there is a need to understand that according to AMHA rules/Standard, anything over 34" is not a miniature horse but that is not saying that AMHR doesn't have their rules/Standard that says a miniature horse can be up to and including 38." There is just a difference in definition of a miniature horse from one registry to another ...doesn't make one or the other right or wrong since each has their own Standard to abide by. No different than AMHR saying anything over 38" isn't legitimately a miniature horse. Really not that difficult to understand. mary

 

[kaykay]

ughhh i guess i am not being understood.

How can AMHA say nothing over 34" is a Miniature Horse and yet NAME NATIONAL CHAMPIONS THAT ARE OVER 34"!!!

I dont know how much simpler I can make it. According to amha it is not a miniature horse yet their own champions are clearly over 34!!!

thats my only point not which registry is right or wrong regarding height.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I do understand what you are saying Kay but I was referring to another post which I took differently from yours. Mary

ughhh i guess i am not being understood.

How can AMHA say nothing over 34" is a Miniature Horse and yet NAME NATIONAL CHAMPIONS THAT ARE OVER 34"!!!

thats my only point not which registry is right or wrong regarding height.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

There needs to be some type of program for BOTH registeries to teach these stewards on how to measure these miniatures correctly. I honestly feel that is the major issue is they just don't look at the overall picture and follow the check lists when it comes to measuring.

I don't show at Worlds, but I do at Nationals, and I can honestly say those stewards who do the measuring needs to get their act together and correctly measure these horses. I'm amazed at some of these horses that are actually under 38"

. Theres no way. Get these horses standing up square, take your time, and get them measured in correctly. This is a National show after all, lets be professional about it.

Oh and love the Bs

I am a member in both registries, Im even going to be hardshipping a horse into AMHA, AMHA does not need to close their registeries at this time. Why do we need to so badly? Both registeries have problems period, end of story.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

ughhh i guess i am not being understood.

How can AMHA say nothing over 34" is a Miniature Horse and yet NAME NATIONAL CHAMPIONS THAT ARE OVER 34"!!!

I dont know how much simpler I can make it. According to amha it is not a miniature horse yet their own champions are clearly over 34!!!

thats my only point not which registry is right or wrong regarding height.

I get it Kay with horses measuring say 35 and showing in the World show and winning a National champion simply cause they somehow managed to squeak in.. how can they have it both ways not a mini but a champion in there registry

 

[Mulligans Run]

And also He called several cheaters.. He failed to mentioned that he also had some that were protested and measured out After they had already measured . So how is this any different ?

And Erica was correct , In AMHR to protest height you must have a horse entered in the class with the one you are protesting , just saves alot of these witch hunts !!

! And I hate to say but I feel that is what happened at AMHA this year.. If you were not on the hunted list you were ok,, as there were plenty of large horses still left in the classes that could have easily been protested.

Touche' Belinda!!! Well said!

And I agree with the protesting AFTER the horses have shown - there is no way to see all the horses out there until they hit the show ring. It wasn't until I saw horses lined up in the ring that it was obvious how wrong the measuring was. These were horses I had never seen before since they were from a different area that we show in. But one in particular towered over a protested horse that was bumped down....yet the tall horse remained in the class that the protested horse was knocked out of.

Hope that made sense...hard to explain without naming names and I'm not going there.

Not sure if I agree with "having to have a horse in the class to protest" as it would keep many from being able to step forward...but I do understand how it would discourage vengence hunters.

I feel that the responsibility lies with the measuring people. They need to be properly trained and need to stick to their guns. I sat in the measuring area and saw measuring all over the place...and surprising NOT in the way you would think. I saw them make the trainers keep the horses under themselves, while others were allowed to stretch them....and the measuring rules weren't followed either. The books states that you take 3 measurements and average them. This was not done. My daughter heard the measuring person say 29, 28.5 and 28 and a little bit so we'll just call it 28....

If it was 34 and a little bit do you think they'd allow it?

The crackdown needs to start at the local shows.

 

[Dorrie & Frank]

The problem is not a matter of not knowing where to measure. Never has been. We had no problem with my daughters' stallion measuring at 32 1/4 until an owner of a horse was in a "must have" situation for qualifying points for Worlds and suddenly he was 31 3/4 and put in the lower class. My daughter was not told and missed the gate - my oh my - we protested - they laughed - you had to protest before the gate closed. It is a matter of the owners wanting to walk away with plastic trophies and points so they can sell progeny. Its business and it has become a very crooked business because he AMHA board, directors, executives and show managers have allowed it to occur.

It is not about B sized not being legitimate - its about how the crooked business of AMHA makes the unders illegitimate. We all recognize that the R group was born out of frustration with the A group not allowing over 34 - the competition between the two organizations should make the business larger and better. A small town that can't support one lawyer readily supports two. If the rules were enforced the A horses could be proud of their of heritage just as the B horses are.

Stacey watch out for that glass house analogy. It could back fire/

 

[hahler]

I have a suggestion.

ive seen people here mention about the stance of the horse at measuring

what about measuring from the coronet band to the withers, that would eliminate the stance problem or the need for my services at shows.

i watched alot of hours of measuring at the worlds and i thought they did a good job with what they had to work with

there was more cameras going off in that little place then the paparazzi going after britney spears

that made the horses nervous also

just my 2 cents worth

dawn

 

[Belinda]

We all recognize that the R group was born out of frustration with the A group not allowing over 34 - the competition between the two organizations should make the business larger and better.

I am not sure how long you have been a member ? So no offense here , but AMHR WAS NOT A SPIN OFF OF AMHA

OH! Matter of fact much the opposite.. The AMHR was the FIrst Miniature Horse Registry !!

The AMHR put the over size division much later , after AMHA was formed.. And I can get you all the dates but really don't want to have to look all that up,

T

Sorry know this was off subject but could not help it..

he older I get the more I forget things like that.. LOL !

 

[Karin - NaKar Miniatures]

I think that the purpose of Ed's letter is to inform as many AMHA members about certain persons wanting to over turn a rule that has already been passed. We, as AMHA members, should let the Board know how we feel about this.

"In the near future you will be hearing about a group of people that are trying to overturn a new rule that has already been voted on and passed by the membership. The new rule states that a horse may be protested at any time up to 2 hours after the show. Our management states that this rule will cause havoc with the show and that it may be abused just to avenge rather than to make things right. I say to our leadership, If you measure our horses correctly the first time, then you will have no problem. The problem is we are not doing it right and that is causing the problem. This new rule is designed to get people to put their horses in the right class and if they are to big, then they should leave them home. The board is going to try and overturn this rule. I have bad news for them, they set a presidence with the futurity committee when they wanted to enhance the futurity with some good ideas. Our legal council advised that what ever the membership has voted for is how it has to be. This rule went through all of the correct channels, it was voted on, passed and now will come into effect on Jan 1 of 08.

We should all be for the betterment of our association and it is time to put the violators on notice. As of Jan 1 /08, every show manager should be held liable to measure the horses correctly. They should be held accountable along with our leadership and management. Please help to put us back on a constructive track to better our association. Before long, none of us will be proud of the outcome if we don’t act soon."

 

[Jean_B]

Just wanted to ad that while Ed made some good points, I took offense to his statement about the Legitimate Miniatures

As if the over divison is not legitmate ?????? I have over ones in training that come from 4 or 5 generations of under 34" some way under , and they end up 34 1/2 or bigger.. And not just one bloodline but many !!

And also He called several cheaters.. He failed to mentioned that he also had some that were protested and measured out OH! OH! After they had already measured . So how is this any different ?

I vote for measuring on the withers like all the rest of the equine world including Ponies !!!!

And Erica was correct , In AMHR to protest height you must have a horse entered in the class with the one you are protesting , just saves alot of these witch hunts !!

! And I hate to say but I feel that is what happened at AMHA this year.. If you were not on the hunted list you were ok,, as there were plenty of large horses still left in the classes that could have easily been protested..

 

[Dorrie & Frank]

Have it your way but my husband and our friends were there. And Belinda you know who we got Blaze from. Enough said.

 

[Minimor]

For anyone wanting the dates...AMHR was started in 1972 (I have an ASPC brochure that gives that information!) and AMHA was founded in 1978 (that info is right off of the AMHA website). And yes, initially AMHR was for 34" and under only. I don't know what year it was changed to include horses up to 38". I have seen that date somewhere, but don't ask me where!