ASPC/AMHR Member/Non-Member/Transfer Fee's

[~Lisa~]

I guess I can not see the logic in lowering fees. I do not feel our fees are outragous. The loss of income there would need to be made up somewhere and really that leaves ou registration and transfer fees. That in the end would cost many much more then the 15 bucks proposed here in savings on membership fees.

As far as raising the ammy fee /youth fee well I think that to is self defeating the majority of our members do not show all the time they might do an occasional show. The majority are not going to pay extra. I can speak for myself I would not. For 5 bucks I would think why not so I can show in a ammy class today I would not pay more for the one show I might choose to show ammy in.

Why in these economic times would we make it more challenging for the youth to show? Lets be real here very few kids show on a show circuit and even fewer make it to Nationals or Congressmany might do one or two local shows a year if they are lucky

The majority of our members simply enjoy their little horses. To go on the fact that "IF" the ammy program or youth programs had to be self sufficent doesnt fly either.. when and if that ever takes place then it can be factored into the equation but for now that is not the case

I would much prefer to pay current prices add a non memeber fee and call it good rather then increase prices across the board to make up for any lost revenue.

If anything is going to change I feel it should be the futurity program. I think the amount people pay is just silly hardly a "bet" on your breeding program but that is JMO and another discussion for another day.

 

[Annabellarose]

As a member of both AMHA and AMHR I do not have a problem with being responsible for myself (what a concept!) to know the rules when I show and if I do not know the rules I do not have a problem with being responsible for learning the rules via the association's/registry's website and/or by ordering and/or by having to pay for an official rule book. Other associations and registries that I have belonged to handled it like that, that is what I was used to before leaping into the Miniature Horse world with both feet before doing my homework!

If you show (now) it is your responsibility to know the rules whether you got an update, or a magazine, or whatever. You can't tell the ring steward that excuses you for a rule violation, "I didn't know the rule had changed because I didn't get that month's magazine." LOL

 

[Karen S]

Hi mydaddysjag,

Yes the Youth membership was only paid once until the youth was 18 (I know been there done that with my daughter till she aged out of the youth). For her $10 for five years (13-18) she got to participate and won many of the youth awards, was your AMHR Queen in 1998 and your Registry Queen in 2001. $10 for a one time fee back then still didn't go very far. If you'll look the $15 would have to be paid yearly, just like the rest of the memberships. If a youth doesn't want to compete in the youth classes or the youth programs, then they would have to buy a regular membership. Which one would you choose? I'm pretty sure most families would be more than willing to pay the $15 per youth instead of $35 or $50 memberships. Even if there were 200 kids at mini nationals and you only charged them $10, that's $2000. Tell me how far that money would go towards their awards. The youth budget is over ten times that.

You might not think your $5.00 amateur fee goes very far, but again, everytime you enter into an Amateur class at your favorite show, chances are that show is already participating in the Triple A Amateur High Point program for that show. You are automatically entered into the local show awards...let's say you win the overall high point amateur in the miniature division....you'll receive a letter of congrats from me, signed by me, you'll receive a nice certificate that you can frame, plus a voucher for your choice of awards. Those awards are not cheap and they are something every amateur can keep and use. So for your $5.00 you just got more bang for your buck. What if you won one of the awards at Mini Nationals....better yet, the End of the Year....or the grand prize of them all....Supreme Amateur...in my book, no matter what the fee's are...you are getting back what you put in. Then there is the Amateur Companion/Amateur Excellence program for those amateurs that don't show, but do other things with their horses. Your current amateur membership entitles you to those awards as well. Those folks can earn a jacket just like the Supreme Amateurs. I do have something for everyone, but again, you don't have to buy an amateur membership. That is up to you if that program fits your needs. It's not for everyone.

Karen

 

[Sunny]

A youth membership fee of $15 yearly is extremely reasonable. If a person can't afford to pay that, how the heck can they afford to have a horse in the first place, never mind haul it around to show(s), etc.?

I think the opiton of taking the Journal or not is also very good. Would there not be a reduction in costs if fewer copies of each issue needed to be printed? As for being kept in the loop about rule changes, etc., my guess would be that if a person isn't interested in reading the Journal, they probably aren't interested in showing at sanctioned shows and such. And, as others have already mentioned, a person declining to take the Journal would simply have to be responsible for getting the information in other ways, such as the website, etc.

 

[SweetOpal]

Too be honest tho the Journal is starting to look boring and its pretty sad but with no advertisement theres no help.

Well that should be a big thank you to the people who regularly spend thier money putting in ads, those are the people who are paying for the journal. Do you really think your $ 65 annual membership is paying for all the organizations paid employee's, the journal production, the office expenses???? When was the last time you did a journal ad in hopes of helping the journal to be more up to your standards of what you would find not boring?? They can only put what is sent in....

Always so much negativity about the registry. Just be glad you still have one and that your horses are still considered registered! I will pay whatever they raise any fees too, regardless if it is youth, ammy, regular membership. I also think that the futurity should be something of a little higher standard and should have higher fees, however that does not affect our registry just the futurity. I also think it would be fine for the youth to pay a yearly fee as well. $ 10 is not going to break my bank considering what I am spending on these horses....

edited to ad: I would be perfectly happy to have a non member rate for registration and other office work at an increased rate.

 

[midnight star stables]

Why in these economic times would we make it more challenging for the youth to show? Lets be real here very few kids show on a show circuit and even fewer make it to Nationals or Congressmany might do one or two local shows a year if they are lucky

I don't see how $15.00 really makes that big of a difference?? When I was a youth (not too long ago) I ended up having to pay for my parents to be members because that's just how it worked out. And with the amount I spend on the horses, and to get them to that show, I don't see how that $15.00 matter? Or it's the parents paying anyways, so ??

Personally, I agree with Karen and Judy. I'd love to see the prices dropped. With times getting harder, I see more and more people will be cutting back, and affordable prices sure would help. JMHO.

 

[mydaddysjag]

Honestly, I didn't realize that we had that many different ammy programs/awards available. So what your saying is there are programs that I am competing in without even "knowing it"? I always thought that I had to sign up and keep track of points etc for those programs. I'll have to see what the packet I have is. Regardless, Ill have to try for some of those awards next show season. I really hope they get that super gelding program going too.

I do agree that the AMHR website is a little lacking, and sometimes hard to navigate. Without the money to pay to have it overdone and updated, what more can you do. I do wish it were more like the AQHA website though. Im pretty sure you can now even register your foals on the website, and if you want to look up a horses offspring etc you can pay a small amount and check things like offspring, performance records, ownership records etc. I think you can even get a nice extended pedigree. I know they get a lot of revenue off of those optional services. It sure is nice to be able to pay a smal;l fee to look up one horse than to have to pay a large one time fee. I dont own a big farm or a lot of horses, and dont have the need to look up multiple horses.

 

[Karen S]

Wanted to share something that I requested from USEF (Yes, I'm a member) regarding advertising in their publication. Here is what I got back:

USEF member rates:

Full page color: $2,000

Full page black and white: $1,100

Half page color: $1,100

Half page black and white: $700

Third page color: $800

Third page black and white: $500

** Special offer- book an ad in the November issue too and receive 10% off both ads and even more exposure for your stallion!

This was their offer to advertise my Shetland Stallion in their publication. I personally can't afford these rates...if I can't afford these, then how can this publication stay viable? Their publication is a lot smaller than our "Journal" and I know our advertising rates are not the same as theirs. When I do advertise with our "Journal" I can get a full page ad less than their 1/3 page add.

Karen

 

[~Lisa~]

I don't see how $15.00 really makes that big of a difference??

It doesnt make a difference to me personally however there are times a youth comes to a show a spectator and would love a chance to get in and show they might not want to pay 15 bucks at that moment on top of the $15-$20.00 class fee

Again.. lowering the membership fee is fine and dandy.. the question remains where do you expect to make up the difference? Fees would have to be raised somewhere leaving Reg and transfer fees. If those go up 15 dollars a peice so membership could go down 15 a piece would you be saving any money? Or spending a heck of a lot more?

I am not sure the money would be made up purely by not recieving the Journal

 

[Karen S]

Hi Lisa,

If my memory serves me correctly...a youth can show in any youth classes without a youth membership....the youth memebership entitles that youth to all of their youth points, and the ability to participate at the AMHR National show in the youth program and to be eligble to apply for the youth awards. So if a youth attended a show as a spectator and wanted to try their hand at showing they could, they just wouldn't receive any points.

Karen

 

[~Lisa~]

Hi Lisa,
If my memory serves me correctly...a youth can show in any youth classes without a youth membership....the youth memebership entitles that youth to all of their youth points, and the ability to participate at the AMHR National show in the youth program and to be eligble to apply for the youth awards. So if a youth attended a show as a spectator and wanted to try their hand at showing they could, they just wouldn't receive any points.

Karen

Actually Karen with all due respect this is not correct. THe current standing rule is ALL YOUTH MUST HAVE A YOUTH CARD to be able to show in any ASPC/AMHR youth classes. You are correct they can show in a open class without a membership but to be in a youth class they must a possess and show a card or get one on site from the steward.

Frankly I am not against paying for the youth membership fee or paying more for any fee our registry has as long as I feel the registry is continuing to work for me and for the betterment of our breeds.

But to end up equal I will say it again for some fee to be dropped something else has to increase if they increase our registration fees would we really be saving any money?

 

[ruffian]

Looking at the other breed fees I don't think either AMHA or AMHR are out of line.

I don't care either way of having the magazines part of the membership fee. I would buy it anyhow, just to enjoy it.

The Journal isn't as fun to read simply because most of it is black/white. They've come a ways since it was ALL black and white. Actually it was kind of nice when it was half the size because I could put it in my purse or jacket and take it with me.

Rules don't go into effect until the following years, so if someone gets the rulebook each year, they don't have to worry about reading the magazines for changes. I like to read it for other information, such as current events, stories, etc.

I don't see the rule where youth HAVE to have a youth card. I don't think they do, but could be wrong (Have been before)

I've heard it said the cheapest part of horse is the original purchase price - either $50 or $5,000. Everything else adds up!

 

[~Lisa~]

That rule was passed in I believe it was Buffalo NY where they decided to not charge for youth membership- however it does have to be renewed every year and yes as a show manager I have been told several times and checked with past members of the youth committee that every youth showing in a youth class must possess a card.

You can get one at a show from a steward free of charge but they must have one

 

[disneyhorse]

I would support a member/nonmember fee schedule.

HOWEVER

I strongly feel that ALL members should receive the Journal and NOT have an option to forgo it.

Breed magazines are STRONGLY driven by ADVERTISERS... and the advertisers want to be assured that they will have the WIDEST AUDIENCE POSSIBLE. If it is possible to just not get the Journal, then why would advertisers bother? Chances are a bunch of members would opt out to save a little bit of money. I think I would...

I know a lot of people like big, thick, colorful breed magazines, but the majority of breed magazines are advertisements.

So get out there and submit your ads and put your money where your mouth is!

See? Pretty hard, huh? I personally have never run an ad in the Journal. Not enough horses here that I sell or want to promote, usually just two or so...

Andrea

 

[Minimor]

I would be in favor of a member/non-member fee schedule, but would have to say I'm NOT in favor of reducing fees as discussed above. I don't actually have a problem with the $76 US fee for Canadian members....making that at least $83 in Canadian funds, maybe much more if the exchange rate should skyrocket--it if jumped up to 58% like it was in 2002... (that's the worst I've seen it & I always remember that year because I got a harness that was $150 US at Nationals, and that translated into $237 Cdn for me!)... At that rate the $76 US membership would cost me $120 Canadian! THAT would hurt, for sure, but if I had registry work to be done or planned on showing in that year then yes, I would take out the membership....certainly you can show without the membership but then your horses wouldn't collect any HOF points (at least I don't think so? I'd have to read that rule again to be sure) & I'd probably want those. If I had no paperwork to be done and wasn't going to show then I probably would skip the membership that year.

I would sure hate to see membership fees reduced and registration and/or transfer fees increased (or temp. to perm. fees increased for that matter)

In terms of non-member fees, my suggestion would have been that if the transfer fee is $15 for members, it should be $30 for non-members. The late transfer fee of $25 would be $50 for a non-member. Generally speaking a single transaction would be cheaper for a non-member than what it would cost to buy a membership and pay the member's rate for that transaction--but if there were 2 or more transactions to be done by that non-member, then it would be cheaper for him/her to buy a membership. That's how it always was with the Canadian Morgan club when I was active there. Whatever the member fee was the non-member fee was exactly double.

Now--and I'm not sure when this changed--that same Morgan club has greatly increased the non-member rates:

membership is $50 plus tax

Registration fee for horse within 12 months of foaling: Member $45 Non-member $150

Registration fee for horse 12-24 months of age: Member $100 Non-member $260

Transfers within 6 months of date of sale: Member $50 Non-member $160 (keep in mind that under Canadian law transfers of Canadian registered horses must be sent in and paid for by the seller)

Registration of prefix: Member $75 Non member $210

Stallion to gelding: No fee

Stallion reports: No fee if filed before January 31st of following year.

After Jan. 31st Member fee is $75, non-member fee is $135

I've always wondered why AMHR even bothers with the amateur fee when it is a mere $5--that is nothing, why bother? I don't buy my amateur card even for that small amount, and I wouldn't buy one if the fee was raised higher than that. I qualify for ammie, I just don't bother with it. Youth fees also don't affect me and I don't really have an opinion on how those should go--I can see pros and cons to no fees and "some fee" both but haven't put much thought into it either way.

Notices can easily be put on the web page for those that do not receive the journal.

But what about those who do not have internet? They are just "nobody" and not worthy of consideration by the registry?
Mind you, I have a feeling that those persons who can't be bothered to read (or even GET a copy of it) the rule book probably don't bother to read the news and updates in the Journal either, so in that respect the absence of the news they would normally receive in the Journal doesn't make much difference to a certain number of people.

 

[Shari]

Non-Member Transfer Fee…up to 6 months from date of sale……$40.00

Non-Member Transfer Fee…after 6 months from date of sale……. $50.00

Personally I find this too high.

Would like to see transfers for non members be $20.00 and $40.00 respectfully.

I don't plan on becoming a member again and am having hard times. Even $40.00 right now means taking food out of the human or fur kids mouths. And no.. we have not always been in these dire straights. My animals come first.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone about my comment. What I meant to say was I don't think overall the Journal is boring, its just there is no good articles, no sit back and read, its always the same. Trust me the only thing I enjoy looking at in the Journal is the advertising and so few are doing it its a shame. I can't afford or don't have anyone to promote to do an ad but I do appreciate those who do make them. So I'm sorry, but I didn't mean to offend the advertisters.

I think when it comes to the amateur and the youth programs where they do offer awards perhaps they should be backed up more. If thats the case more money.

I think there should just be a way to promote new members and I would like to know how many members we have lost since the price increase and how many members we got that were new.

I feel like a broken record, high membership costs means no new members no paperwork being done, period.

 

[Karen S]

Good Morning Minimor,

If you will go pull you a copy of the current work order form, you will see that I didn't disturb anything regarding the Canadian fee's or the current transfer fee's. The only fee's I incorporated were the Non-Member fee's. Go back and take a look at the other associations very closely and look at their Non-Member fee's. If a person was to purchase a Miniature or Shetland and DIDN'T want to bother with joining the Registry, but wanted to put that horse in their name, then they have an avenue to do so for a very small price. I did when I owned a large paint mare three years ago. I didn't want to join the Paint Horse Associaiton, but wanted to be sure that mare was registered to me in case I wanted to re-sell her. I paid their high fee's to just do that. When you paid a price of a horse any and all transfer fee's go with it, if you are going to be a responsible horseman. Record keeping is all part of it. So I paid a pretty high price for the mare, and added on top of that their Non-Member transfer fee. When I did sell the mare, I ended up getting both the price I paid for her and my Non-Member fee's back in her selling price. What I kept reading was that folks wanted another way to keep those Miniatures and Shetlands registered without loosing their backgrounds.

I'm sorry to read that you wouldn't be interested in re-joining the Registry we need good people like you to be part of it, not just for the money but for being able to be part of the solution to help solve some of the problems that the Registry is facing today.

Karen

 

[kaykay]

IMO our website needs a major overhaul from the bottom up. The website committee can only make suggestions for changes (which we have) but we cannot make it happen.

Regarding the Journal--fees were raised this year from last year but not a huge amount. For people who say they cant afford it get together with a group and split the fees. Our group has been running a 2 page ad for 2 years and it actually comes out very reasonable split between all of us. Im also running another full page ad in the next Journal that I split with one other farm. IMO now is the best time to advertise as obviously there is not a lot of competition

I just think that to separate the Journal from membership will take a Bylaw change but Im not sure. I just dont think its a good idea but thats just my 2 cents. There is a lot more info in the Journal besides show info. Board meeting agendas, rules changes on registration, elections etc is all in there. So even if you dont show but breed theres a lot of info that your going to get first in the Journal.

I also dont think now is the time to raise prices. Everyone is struggling right now and it just doesnt make sense to me.

If the Journal is separated from membership I do think we will loose quite a few advertisers.

 

[Sue_C.]

So get out there and submit your ads and put your money where your mouth is!
See? Pretty hard, huh? I personally have never run an ad in the Journal. Not enough horses here that I sell or want to promote, usually just two or so...

Exactly...so the big-guys have to keep it going for us.

If I HAVE to pay for a mag I don't need, I would rather see a "not so shiny" mag, with more articles and information, for less $$, that we lil foplks could afford to advertize in.

would have to say I'm NOT in favor of reducing fees as discussed above. I don't actually have a problem with the $76 US fee for Canadian members...if I had registry work to be done or planned on showing in that year then yes, I would take out the membership....certainly you can show without the membership but then your horses wouldn't collect any HOF points (at least I don't think so? I'd have to read that rule again to be sure) & I'd probably want those. If I had no paperwork to be done and wasn't going to show then I probably would skip the membership that year.

But you see, therein lies a lot of the problem...you say it yourself...if you want to SHOW and want the POINTS you will take out the costly membership, but if you don't have any use for it that next year, you won't bother to join AT ALL. Would it not be best to allow those who do not need the Journal, show, or gather points, to pay a reduced fee? That way at least you might remain a memeber EVERY YEAR, instead of just waiting for a year that you want to show again, and makes it convenient for you to become a member again?