can worming cause colic?

[My2Minis]

My mini colicked a couple of days ago. I wormed her Sunday, and she colicked Wednesday. I'm wondering if there is a link between the two. She had no worms on her FEC in the fall, and the wormer I used was Zimectrin Gold and I used the amount for her weight.

Was it coincidence that it happened so soon after worming? The weather also changed from very cold to warm right before she colicked, and I heard that can cause colic.

I'm trying to find out how to prevent it from happening again

. People have told me minis are prone to colic, and I am relatively new to minis. I've been fortunate to not have had a horse colic before this, and it was scary- she went from a little off to laying down within a short time, so we got her up and called the vet. She got better with banamine and walking.

 

[Katiean]

I do not think that there is any way to prevent/stop colic before it happens. However, horses had been on a hay for 2 months before I had a mare colic. She coliced 2x's before I took her off of the hay and sold it for 1/2 of what I bought it for. The reason I can say for sure it was the hay was because I knew 2 other farms that had the same hay. From the same stack. One farm had 4 colic and the other said yes they had colic but didn't give numbers. I will not only not buy that type of hay again, but, I will not buy any hay from that area again. Now for your colic. I think it is most likely weather related since you said in the fall your horse showed no worms in the sample. If your horse had no worms, why would you worm him? Just a question. Something to think about. I do not think I would worm a horse unless I took a sample in and had it tested and worms or larva were found. My way of thinking is if one horse in your herd has worms you can bet they all have worms. So I would just take in 1 sample if they are all together or can have nose to nose contact. I would rather test than put all of those chemicals into my horse.

 

[My2Minis]

The vet said I needed to worm with Ivermectin to kill the bots in their stomachs after mid-Dec (even with no worm eggs in the samples. None of my horses had any worms). I hated to worm them when they had no worms, but this is what the vet said. It's my first year doing FECs instead of routine worming and I'm trying to figure it out.

I did have some weird hay right before she colicked. The earlier bales in my load were nice and leafy and I threw away a moldy stemmy bale two weeks ago, and the bale next to it was stemmy and overmature but no mold. I had fed the bale a week before up until she colicked, but no other horses colicked.

I am now composting any stemmy bales I find and only feeding leafy ones. This mini has some teeth issues (she had bad teeth when I got her and had big hooks ground off during her float). I have added orchardgrass pellet mash to her diet to replace some of the hay.

 

[TaylorMarie]

I do not think that there is any way to prevent/stop colic before it happens. However, horses had been on a hay for 2 months before I had a mare colic. She coliced 2x's before I took her off of the hay and sold it for 1/2 of what I bought it for. The reason I can say for sure it was the hay was because I knew 2 other farms that had the same hay. From the same stack. One farm had 4 colic and the other said yes they had colic but didn't give numbers. I will not only not buy that type of hay again, but, I will not buy any hay from that area again. Now for your colic. I think it is most likely weather related since you said in the fall your horse showed no worms in the sample. If your horse had no worms, why would you worm him? Just a question. Something to think about. I do not think I would worm a horse unless I took a sample in and had it tested and worms or larva were found. My way of thinking is if one horse in your herd has worms you can bet they all have worms. So I would just take in 1 sample if they are all together or can have nose to nose contact. I would rather test than put all of those chemicals into my horse.

just something to think about...(IMOA)

I have a regular worming routine to prevent my horses from ever getting worms! why wait for your horse to get worms and then spread them to all your other horses before you start 'treatment?

 

[mizbeth]

Absolutely! Deworming can cause colics. Especially the Zemectrin Gold and Equimax but also other wormers depending on the worm load of the horse. I believe that is listed on the label of instructions for Zemectrin Gold and Equimax. Both of those are very potent wormers as they also kill tape worms. Tape worms die and disintergrate inside the horse so you never see them expell them.

It usually takes two - three days to see worms being expelled from a horse that has them, once they have been wormed. Many types of worms do not show up in a fecal count.

Good luck and hope your horse is better. I would think that the weather turning from warm to cold would be more prone to colic rather than the other way around. JMO

 

[Minimor]

You will usually find worms in the manure 24 hours after deworming with ivermectin. Depending on type of worm they may be difficult to see--strongyles, for instance, are very small so you have to look very very closely to see them--the fewer worms there are the closer you have to look and the more manure you have to look through!

Ascarids are easy to see, because of their size; bots can easily be missed, because usually there aren't many of them & just a couple may be overlooked.

Katiean, I don't think testing one horse & assuming all are the same is very accurate; I'm sure that I've read that different horses may have different numbers of worms at any one time--out of 10 horses on the place 2 may have a very heavy load and the other 8 have less--something to do with a particular horse's resistance I think? And also--a fecal count that shows no worm eggs does not necessarily mean that the horse has no worms--it just means that at particular point in time the worms are at a stage where they are not laying eggs, and so no eggs are found in the fecal count. Something else to think about.

Deworming can cause colic--I've had it happen once or twice, in a horse that had a heavy infestation. I found that worms were passed in 24 hours, and the horse colicked about 48 hours after deworming. But, other things can cause colic as well--a change in the weather, especially if the horse drinks less because of it, or coarse, stemmy hay, or perhaps a combination of both things plus the recent deworming.

 

[krissy3]

I dont find worms in the manuer after worming , but I am very punctual on my de worming routine, and eliminate all manuer everyday from the stall and pasture, I also feed out of special troffs that the horses dont go to the bathrrom in, that really helps to keep contamination down.

I agree that a horse can colic after worming if there is an infestation, many vets will tell you otherwise. I do believe strongly that tempature change can cause a mild colic.I find the best way to prevent this is make sure your horse stays hydrated and on the same food schedual through sudden temp changes. Watered down pellets and -or grain will help keep them hydrated, salt in the pellets will encourage drinking , and keeping water in buckets at a mild temp.Giving horses enough space to walk around all day long is healthier than a stalled horse, if they have a very slight gas buildup they can relieve it themselves by having enough room to stay moving. there are several things you can do to prevent colic. Fugly horse of the day blog has a very good list of things that will prevent colic.

hope the horses stay warm and healthy during the winter season.

Kristen

 

[~Dan]

I have read that when worming horses with a heavy worm load the worms will die and can cuase a blockage in their intestines, this i think is more commin in minis due to the fact they have such small intestines, however, it shouldnt be a problem if you have your horses on a worming schedule, i worm every 3 monthes and so far havent had a problem with my routine.

Dan

 

[Reble]

The vet said I needed to worm with Ivermectin to kill the bots in their stomachs after mid-Dec (even with no worm eggs in the samples. None of my horses had any worms). I hated to worm them when they had no worms, but this is what the vet said. It's my first year doing FECs instead of routine worming and I'm trying to figure it out.

I just had my horses checked for worms and nothing seen in the fecal testing.

Our vet also suggested still deworming with Ivermectin for bots, now that winter is here.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

This is just something to bear in mind...

ALL horses have worms, they are part of the digestive system and, in the correct amounts, cause no problems and live symbiotically.

It is when they build up to dangerous numbers, which they will do without routine deworming, that they become dangerous to the host.

If a Faecal Count shows NO worms you need to change the firm that is doing it as there is no such thing as a live horse with NO worms!!!

Very few wormers will cause any sort of reaction in a horse, but there are the few that will have an almost allergic reaction to the chemicals, this is not something that can be allowed for when doing a routine worming.

It is far more normal for the dead worms, or the dying ones, killed off by a good dewormer like Ivermectin, to do the damage.

Very, very occasionally the same result has been logged when using the Fenbendazole five day course, but normally, the fact that it is spread out over five days, tends to prevent a "build up" of dead worms.

 

[Bunnylady]

Katiean, I don't think testing one horse & assuming all are the same is very accurate; I'm sure that I've read that different horses may have different numbers of worms at any one time--out of 10 horses on the place 2 may have a very heavy load and the other 8 have less--something to do with a particular horse's resistance I think? And also--a fecal count that shows no worm eggs does not necessarily mean that the horse has no worms--it just means that at particular point in time the worms are at a stage where they are not laying eggs, and so no eggs are found in the fecal count. Something else to think about.

I've heard that in a "typical" herd, about 80% of the worms will be found in about 20% of the horses. Another 20% of the horses will be nearly worm-free. And if you were to test these animals repeatedly over several worming cycles, that the same animals would fall into the same categories, because some animals are naturally more resistant (heard this about goats, too.) The authors of this study were recommending that you set a threshold somewhere just below the point of actual harm to the host, and worm only animals that exceed that number of parasites. By not worming animals that don't have a significant parasite load, you keep some parasites in the population that haven't been "zapped" repeatedly by wormers, and hopefully keep their unsophisticated genes in the genepool. The point of this exercise is to delay the development of resistance to wormers in the parasite population. It does involve a lot of fecal sampling, but it does give you a better idea of what is actually going on in your herd. As has been pointed out, though, there are some kinds of parasites that don't show up in a fecal count, so it only goes so far.

I'm afraid I'm a little too lazy to do all that sampling. I just do the every-two-months, rotating-wormers dance! I also do beet pulp and psyllium, avoid sudden feed changes, keep an eye on water consumption, etc. So far (knock on wood) we haven't had any serious colics. We have had a couple of "I don't feel so hot" episodes when left on the pasture too long (oops! my bad!!

) but they resolved without having to get the Vet involved.

My2Minis, I'm glad your mare is feeling better!

 

[Carolyn R]

This is just something to bear in mind...ALL horses have worms, they are part of the digestive system and, in the correct amounts, cause no problems and live symbiotically.

It is when they build up to dangerous numbers, which they will do without routine deworming, that they become dangerous to the host.

If a Faecal Count shows NO worms you need to change the firm that is doing it as there is no such thing as a live horse with NO worms!!!

Very few wormers will cause any sort of reaction in a horse, but there are the few that will have an almost allergic reaction to the chemicals, this is not something that can be allowed for when doing a routine worming.

It is far more normal for the dead worms, or the dying ones, killed off by a good dewormer like Ivermectin, to do the damage.

Very, very occasionally the same result has been logged when using the Fenbendazole five day course, but normally, the fact that it is spread out over five days, tends to prevent a "build up" of dead worms.

Jane is right, all horses have worms, wormer is used to keep numbers in check.

It is a dangerous game to play when assuming ones horses have no worms, not to worm for months and months, decide they look wormy, then worm them. Large amounts of worms can shed out at once (even up to a month after worming) and cause colic and impactions.

This is not a fun game, people that have purchased a horse and didn't know the breeder had practiced playing this type of "game" with wormer can attest to the internal damage, need for ongoing treatment, huge vet bills, and/or heartbreak that can result from this type of careless worming regimine.

It is usually the overload of dead worms that cause the colic, not the wormer itself, but there are those rare, sensitive cases that have an adverse reaction to a specific wormer.

My2Minis, I have to say I don't think minis are more prone to colic, but I do think impactions are more lethal in minis due to the small diameter of the intestines. I have to say it has been a couple years since I had a BH, I dearly miss having one, but the two I had were medical nightmares largely in part because the owners, unknowing to me or to several vets that were involved, practiced careless worming practices and had little knowledge of potential causes of ulcer issues in equines. The two BHs had far more colic issues than all of my minis put together to date, knock on wood.

I grew up with big horses, had them for well over 20 years, never had issues. It was just those last two from one farm in particular.

 

[My2Minis]

This is just something to bear in mind...ALL horses have worms, they are part of the digestive system and, in the correct amounts, cause no problems and live symbiotically.

It is when they build up to dangerous numbers, which they will do without routine deworming, that they become dangerous to the host.

If a Faecal Count shows NO worms you need to change the firm that is doing it as there is no such thing as a live horse with NO worms!!!

Very few wormers will cause any sort of reaction in a horse, but there are the few that will have an almost allergic reaction to the chemicals, this is not something that can be allowed for when doing a routine worming.

It is far more normal for the dead worms, or the dying ones, killed off by a good dewormer like Ivermectin, to do the damage.

Very, very occasionally the same result has been logged when using the Fenbendazole five day course, but normally, the fact that it is spread out over five days, tends to prevent a "build up" of dead worms.

Jane is right, all horses have worms, wormer is used to keep numbers in check.

It is a dangerous game to play when assuming ones horses have no worms, not to worm for months and months, decide they look wormy, then worm them. Large amounts of worms can shed out at once (even up to a month after worming) and cause colic and impactions.

This is not a fun game, people that have purchased a horse and didn't know the breeder had practiced playing this type of "game" with wormer can attest to the internal damage, need for ongoing treatment, huge vet bills, and/or heartbreak that can result from this type of careless worming regimine.

It is usually the overload of dead worms that cause the colic, not the wormer itself, but there are those rare, sensitive cases that have an adverse reaction to a specific wormer

Due to resistance to wormers building up, many vets are recommending doing fecal egg counts to find the horses with heavy worm loads and not worming horses showing low worm counts. Also, I clean up poop daily, which also keeps worms down.

I did use the Zimectrin Gold in case she had tapeworms, since those don't show up in FECs. I don't wait until they are wormy- the vet monitors them with samples and doing FECs. I know it would be cheaper and easier to just worm them every two months, but worms are building up resistance to these chemicals and if we continue to rely on them (chemical wormers), what will happen when they no longer work? I'd rather use fewer chemicals and only worm when necessary so the chemicals work when needed and I am not worming horses that don't have worms.

I don't think it's careless to do FECs and worm according to the results and the recommendation of the vet. It is more expensive, but it's the best way to avoid worms building up resistance.

 

[Miniv]

My mini colicked a couple of days ago. I wormed her Sunday, and she colicked Wednesday. I'm wondering if there is a link between the two. She had no worms on her FEC in the fall, and the wormer I used was Zimectrin Gold and I used the amount for her weight.
Was it coincidence that it happened so soon after worming? The weather also changed from very cold to warm right before she colicked, and I heard that can cause colic.

I'm trying to find out how to prevent it from happening again

. People have told me minis are prone to colic, and I am relatively new to minis. I've been fortunate to not have had a horse colic before this, and it was scary- she went from a little off to laying down within a short time, so we got her up and called the vet. She got better with banamine and walking.

As others have posted, it could have been the rapid kill-off of worms that caused your mini to colic.....NOT the actual wormer.

Another possible reason for your girl's "funny tummy" is the change of weather, as YOU posted, and her not drinking enough water in relation to the type of hay. We've had three minis who have reacted like that this year........I call them "funny tummies" because they usually aren't rolling, but laying down and not eating. We pull them into the barn under camera, give them banamine, room temperature water, and sometimes mineral oil - depending on whether we can hear gut sounds or not. They tend to improve in a matter of hours.

The fact that she got better with the banamine so quickly and without an obvious worm load in her manure seems to indicate that the worming time-table was just a coincidence......I will say that all the responses regarding worming has been very educational overall!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

There is still no known resistance to Ivermectin, in horses.

The only real resistance in Equines is to Fenbendazole, which is why I always stress that it is not a wormer to use in a single one off dose. In this way it is almost useless fact.

I have NO idea why Vets keep spreading these "panic stories" but this one is not new.

I am ALL in favour of yearly faecal counts, I think it is something that should be done, but, I have to stress again, I have only ever heard a Vet say that a horse has no worms.

All the firms I have used (laboratories) and I have used three now, have given me a written breakdown of the worm counts in the samples that I have given.

I would not find "no worms" an acceptable, nor a professional response, yet I have heard of a number of Vets giving this answer now.

Very strange.

It is wrong to overworm, by worming more often than is recommended on the pack (unless by Vets orders, of course)

It is wrong to underworm, either by weight or by worming less often than is recommended.

THESE are the things that build up resistance.

The daily wormer is causing a real problem with resistance to that particular wormer, but will not affect the horses tolerance nor response to other chemicals.

As I said at the beginning, Vets have been going on about "resistance" for over twenty years, well over, and, since everyone has the same access to reference documents as I do and as Vets do, nowadays, I would suggest you do the research for yourselves before panicking about it!!

You might be able to cut out one lot of wormer by doing faecal counts, I would not be happy with any more, horses do need to be wormed!

 

[Ellen]

Yes, actually when I contacted OSU regarding an issue we had regarding wormer. They horses are showing resistance to ivermectin also. This last year liquid ivermec did not contain ivermec in the aqueous solution. We did not find out what was going on until the drug companies did. And re called it. That is scary.

We have been told to use liquid where possible on minis....then this? We then switched back to paste. My vet says ivermec for horses is the same for cattle, so if I want liquid, use cattle wormer.

Other then climbing on my soap box about the ivermec, I would agree with the rest of the posters, a heavy load.

Good Luck.

 

[My2Minis]

Yes, actually when I contacted OSU regarding an issue we had regarding wormer. They horses are showing resistance to ivermectin also. This last year liquid ivermec did not contain ivermec in the aqueous solution. We did not find out what was going on until the drug companies did. And re called it. That is scary.
We have been told to use liquid where possible on minis....then this? We then switched back to paste. My vet says ivermec for horses is the same for cattle, so if I want liquid, use cattle wormer.

Other then climbing on my soap box about the ivermec, I would agree with the rest of the posters, a heavy load.

Good Luck.

Yes, from what I've read resistance varies in different parts of the country.

She may have had a heavy worm load, but since her sample last month had an insignificant number of worm eggs and she had been wormed on an 8 week schedule prior to that for her life until this summer (it has been 3 months since her last worming) ...I don't think it's likely but you're right, it is possible.

I'm just glad she recovered and glad she couldn't have reacted to the wormer itself, so I can use it again when I need to without worrying that her colic was a reaction to the wormer.