Changes in hoof angle

[uwharrie]

So I have noticed over the last couple of months that my coming two year old has what I would consider steep hooves. I was not sure but thought they had changed somewhat from when she first came here in April. Well while getting photos for transfer of ownership it really became obvious.

the top photo was when she first arrived in April

the bottom photo is from last week. She gets regular trimming by a "mini" farrier and has not foundered. she did however bruise her legs ( and I assume) feet up pretty bad in the stall the week after she came her. Lots of swelling in the legs ( she was put on low does Bute and antibiotics and iced down twice a day for almost two weeks)

Suggestions and ideas as to what is going on here with the angle? Is it the trim?

 

[Carolyn R]

Every horse will be slightly different from another, but to me.....

The first photos from when she came to you, she looks a little long all over, looks like she just needed a trim and some carefull watch to keep the heel flat and open so it didn't roll under.

The current photo would be a little easier to evaluate if she was on a completely flat surface (black top, concrete slab....)

it looks like the toe has been trimmed but more attention needs to be paid to the heel. while it looks like the heel has been kept open and flat, there appears to be some extra there. None the less, it is hard to tell for sure with the hair and the pitted ground surface.

Just my observation, and it may be different if I were there in person and able to pick up the hoof and look at it all the way around. There are others that a certified that can give you a better break down.

 

[uwharrie]

from what I can tell the heels are open but long. In the first photo she had been trimmed within the last 3 weeks. the second photo she is about 8 weeks out ( farrier is coming tomorrow)

even after the last trim her hoof angle looked very steep. I was always taught with the big horses the ideal angle would be keeping within the angle of the pasturn.

If we ever stop getting rain will get some clearer shots. right now it is hard to find anywhere smooth and dry!

Every horse will be slightly different from another, but to me.....The first photos from when she came to you, she looks a little long all over, looks like she just needed a trim and some carefull watch to keep the heel flat and open so it didn't roll under.

The current photo would be a little easier to evaluate if she was on a completely flat surface (black top, concrete slab....)

it looks like the toe has been trimmed but more attention needs to be paid to the heel. while it looks like the heel has been kept open and flat, there appears to be some extra there. None the less, it is hard to tell for sure with the hair and the pitted ground surface.

Just my observation, and it may be different if I were there in person and able to pick up the hoof and look at it all the way around. There are others that a certified that can give you a better break down.

 

[Fantasia]

I agree with what Carolyn said - the first photo does long like she was long all over. It would be easier if we were there to pick it up and have a looksee - so I will only comment on what I can see and what I've personally seen in horses with similar looking hooves.

However (I do all my trimming) the hoof does appear to be very steep. Pick up her feet and see how much heel is on the back of that foot. Ideally the frog should be passive to the ground ie. touching the ground so it can perform it's job of cushioning. I suspect looking at your pictures that this is not the case. Any heel above the frog should be trimmed.

If the heels are excessively long they need to be bought back down. It can take time to get them permanently to stay down:

The first photo clearly shows she wasn't having her feet done on a regular basis. If you look at the coronet and note the angle of the hoof vs the bottom where it is flared out you will see the change in angle. The angle up by the coronet is the angle she's trying to grow, but as the excess hoof hasn't been taken off the hoof has flared out. Looks like your farrier has done a good job bringing the flare under control as in the second picture the angle appears to be true the whole way down. (Bit hard to tell with the fluff over the coronet - pick it up and check the angle)

I would ask him/her if they are progressively bringing the foot back into line. This will be a nice way to broach the issue!!!!

Before I got into studying hooves and trimming, the farrier I had (highly recommended mini farrier) continuely cut all my team with high heels and it caused all sorts of action issues along with other issues like hoof wall seperation. A year into doing my own trimming, I am still waiting for two of them to "decide" to drop their heels right back down. All the others have and now look like proper little hooves.

Don't get hung up on the "hoof angle to pastern angle must be the same" arguement. Quite often when you rehabilatate a hoof the entire posture of the horse will change. I had a founder mare who went from a shuffling stiff mover into a free mover after having her feet "founder trimmed" for years by farriers. And her entire body changed as muscles were used again. She looked a totally different animal.

If your farrier won't play ball, find another one or do what I did - learn yourself and save a heap of money and stress!!! My inital investment was about $800 all up for tools, DVDs, books and courses. Then take $30 per trim (what gets charged around here) divided by nine horses and it paid back by the 17th trim.

 

[uwharrie]

My goal is to learn to trim my own. There is a farrier school in GA that does a weekend trim class and has mini experience. what DVDs would you recommend?

I do plan on talking with the farrier about the angle and the changes. Like you said I may be getting too hung up on just the angle.

 

[Fantasia]

The best form of trimming that I found (and ask anyone who really knows me I analyse everything to death!) is Jamie Jackson's form of barefoot trimming.

Google Jamie Jackson and you will find out about his books and DVDs. They easy to understand and watch. Another guy who has good books and DVDs is Pete Ramsey.

Good luck!

 

[Minxiesmom]

I have my farrier trained to use his angle measure thingie ALWAYS! I have a really good eye and could tell if a hoof was one degree off. So he never guesses anymore. My horses both wear off their toes so their heels have to be taken off regularly every 6 weeks on the dot, otherwise they get really steep. I try to time my trims to be just before my shows, so everything looks good in their halter classes.

I am not sure if it is a common trait other places, but I have noticed lots of minis around here end up too steep in their angles. It might be the farriers not taking the horses seriously or not being able to see the angles right. I gush to my farrier about how much I appreciate him paying so much attention to my babies and getting their hooves so precise. I always tell him he is responsible for them doing so well in halter! I think he is pretty pround of his work.

 

[Margaret]

The last angle looks too steep for my likes..

The first photo shows a more healthy natural distributation of weight although long

Remember the weight of the horse should naturally fall first on the heel/ frog area..

Anything other than that is unnatural and even possibly painful for the horse.

I would not force this horse to exersize until the hoof grows out enough to correct the angles again..