Defects. deformities, normal, etc.

[Dona]

EVERY TIME... dwarfs are discussed here on LB.. it turns into an "US against THEM thread"?

WHY??? Is there something WRONG with people discussing dwarfs here on LB FORUMS without another message group getting their panties in a knot? Come on folks.. We are all here to love and promote of Minis of all sizes.. why do some get so offensive? Just so happens most dwarfs are under 30" does not mean we are talking about BREEDERS of under 30".. There IS A DIFFERENCE right?

I seen no posts where someone said NOT TO BUY SMALL HORSES because they are dwarfs.. If there is.. please point it out to me..

Now PLEASE STOP and make this thread informative.. NO FIGHTING.. OK..

WHOA!!!!

Where did this come from, Mary Lou? I see no fighting here...all I see are people who are discussing Dwarfism & possible "signs" to look for. There is nothing "wrong" with people discussing Dwarfs here at all, but we should ALL have the right to state our opinions here. I know that most members of this forum belong to other forums too. (not just those who specialize in under 30") So, I don't understand your comment directed to "another message group getting their panties in a knot"?

I've seen a lot of "passionate" posts here from BOTH sides.

We all know that when a topic like this is discussed, there is going to be much difference in opinions. At this point in time...that is all most of this is, people's "OPINIONS" that may or may not be based on their own experience. I don't think anyone who has posted on this thread is being "offensive". They are mearly trying to state what THEY believe, what they agree with & what they don't agree with, & to try to get the best, most correct information out there to educate people. That will be different things to different people...but isn't that what a Forum is all about? Allowing everyone a chance to participate, learn & educate.....

 

[Devon]

Gosh I Wanted ot write a post like that soo bad I was thinking about how someone should then I came across this. People are going crazy finding any reason to post a picture of their horse and have people say "No way thats a dwarf. Id love to own that horse its beautiful" . Some hroses posted are CLEARLY not dwarfy and I think these people know that

Ugh too many posts . I feel bad for the severly deformed Dwarfs we adopted 2 love them! If you think your horse is minimal make it your own judgement and dont breed them

Your Horse, Your Breeding, Your Farm, Your Opinion . If we say yes its a dwarf you will still breed it if you disagree or whatever int he end you Will go with YOUR opinion regardless if 68 people replied of course its a dwarf.

Rant! LOL Im done. Lets just deal with the dwarfs that are severe. Love them and take care of them because we created them and their pains

: If your having thoughts about your mini being "Dwarfy" , good chance that horse should not be bred? If your questioning its quality.

 

[nootka]

Overall, I think most any body part of a horse can be afflicted by the dwarfism gene, but I do notice some of them have ears that are set on at an odd angle, and that may be due to a malformation of the skull. My filly, Goldie, had a little bit of that going on, her ears hung to the side somewhat.

It didn't really occur to me to add that in there, but I will say she had an overall look about her that hinted at dwarfism.

Yes, we do all have a choice to breed or not breed, but we also can help others make more informed decisions.

Sometimes, it sneaks up on us, but quite often, it is somewhat obvious, even to untrained eyes, that a horse is different, and it's nice to know why (and not always will the answer be that the horse is a dwarf).

Liz

 

[slv]

I have truly enjoyed all of the great information on dwarfism. I find it very educational and not directed toward anyone. I really don't think it is hysteria. I have a short story and can't help but to hope that these people have made their way to the forum to get educated.

My friend has a large farm and a very nice breeding program. These people came out to look at horses and to possibly buy some. There was one dwarf (very easy to tell) filly born that year. She was in the lot on the side of her dam. She had a large domed head with great big eyes, no neck and pretty straight legs for a dwarf. The lady went nuts over her. Made the comment that she was the most beautiful filly in the field. My friend graciously told them that she was a dwarf and would be placed in a loving pet home. The woman was so confused. She asked several questions as to how my friend knew that this filly was a dwarf. All of which my friend answered graciously.

These same people went out and bought a stallion that screams DWARF. They also have obtained several mares that are obvious dwarfs and are breeding them together. Stallion is around 29 inches tall and mares are from 27-29 inches. This year at foaling season, they had several dystocias and dead foals. The lady keeps saying, they had the prettiest domed heads like their sire. People have tried to tell her. It only results in her not speaking to them anymore. What have they done but breed SEVERAL more dwarf mares to him for the 2008 breeding season. Arggghhhhh........

So you see, I keep thinking maybe they will stumble upon a thread like this and just MAYBE there is something that they will see that may educate them. There are so many people out there that JUST DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, they refuse to learn anything and are creating problem after problem. I think these people COULD truly learn from these types of threads, IF THEY JUST OPENED THEIR EYES......

 

[Margaret]

When I first got into minis years ago, I remember two farms that had 60 plus miniatures..

These places were the biggest breeding farms in my state that I could find.. One of the breeders told me that the minis with the dishiest heads were the most desireable in the market, but noticed that they also had the highest price tag on them.. This drove me to ask one of the breeders what made a mini dishy in her eyes, as I did not see anything that resembled a dish on many of them..

And I was told that the "dome" on the forhead was indicitive of the dish.. Well I was nieve back then, and glad now that I could "not afford" one of her "prominatly domed" minis,- as much information has been learned since that time.

 

[Cathy_H]

No we should not stop the learning process. Accept what you (the reader) read with a hysterical attitude or with an open mind, but please don't close the door to others in search of knowledge.............................

So you see, I keep thinking maybe they will stumble upon a thread like this and just MAYBE there is something that they will see that may educate them.

............. Exactly - even though things stated here are not always 100% accurate - this can be the beginning of the path to further education....................To be honest here, there are lots of poor quality horses sold to unsuspecting buyers as good/ great horses - this deceptive cycle NEEDS to stop but it won't if the buyer does not have other resources to learn the facts........................... "I am always doing that which I cannot do in order that I may learn how to do it" Pablo Picasso ....... Lets change that to " I will always search out that which I do not know in order that I may learn the best way to do it".

 

[Bess Kelly]

I haven't read all of this thread -- when I have a free week, I may

OH!

First, as a horse owner, I am aware that EVERY horse in ANY breed or breeding program can (& probably does) have a conformation flaw. Also, it is quite obvious and proven than minis did not evolve from the gods, but from crosses of various pony breeds.....in some proportion of their background. Plus I am aware that some of the "older" farms had dwarves in breeding -- both as the result and as the parent.

When I began with minis my goal was strictly "28 & under". That is what I wanted to breed and to this day they are still my hearts favorite and I freely admit that they are not as a whole the most fluid in motion or conformation. The challenge is huge to downsize and maintain tremendous proportion.

I have never had a dwarf to date. I carefully looked at backgrounds and attempted to not include any who may have shown parentage that was what I felt was dwarf. I have accepted that some animals had poorer conformation in their lineage but, having looked at the offspring as best I could, felt it was conformational and not "dwarf". PLUS, I gotta tell you that not every lineage on those papers is TRUE!! OK, I also was very, very, very much for, and promoted, DNA -- STILL want PQ to be required!!! -- and I had my entire herd DNA'd to be able to help with the purification of lineage truth. Some farms were more inclined to have the dwarf genetics and it was obvious, not just one conformation issue, but many. A farm that has long been defunct...Hobby Horse....here in VA, had an entire field of very obvious dwarfs and he wanted big bucks for these tiny animals. Some of other sections of his farm had beautiful animals. I thanked him and left.

There is a mare in my field whom I have owned since 93 and I have never, ever bred her -- although she has produced some nice offspring for others. She had too many not desireable conformation issues which I did not want to consider producing......not dwarf, just not desireable. She is 20 or 21 now and a wonderful baby sitter. Doesn't eat much, healthy, lovely personality

She was purchased unseen, from a well known farm and I retired her when she arrived! I have a Little Husseler dtr who is a tiny spitfire, 24 now, and she has given me some of THE best foals ever -- big action, great conformation. So, there you go.

Some of my carefully selected Komoko mares have been my best producers.

Personally, I agree with those who can just say --

1)do not breed those who are in left field conformationally

2) there really are those who are not dwarfs and have flaws, love them & don't breed them

3)dwarfs happen

4)improve as much as you can.....know there will always be pet quality & non registered stock

5) not every breeder produces themselves. Some produce better, some worse. Use the better one.

For all the new people, just know that these issues exist. Hopefully we will be able to test DNA in the future and determine some of these issues medically. Wouldn't that be great?? Ya know what, we will never be able to test for the "poor conformation" -- only your eye can do that. Love them anyway.