Foaling question for experience breeders

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]How many of you routinely check the position of the foal vaginaly once the water has broken? I have foaled out quite a few mares but have been reading up on it again as it's been quite a few years since I was an active breeder. I've helped mares with their contractions by gently pulling down on the foal during contractions when nessesary, but I never checked fetal position before the onset of actual labor (after the water breaks and they lay down to start pushing) What I read made sense in as much as there is a window of oppertunity that you can "re-arrange" things if they are not in the correct position before contractions start. But I never did that....[/SIZE]

So just curious how many experienced foaling attendants do this routinely

Thanks,

Joy

 

[ohmt]

Not I....

I actually wait outside the mares stall and watch because I don't want to upset them-the only time I go in is when I don't see two hooves coming out first...then I intervene. I had a mare this year that I also helped pull the baby when she had her contractions. The first time I've ever had to do that in 15 or so years. I had A LOT of trouble keeping weight on her though throughout her whole pregnancy and it was her first foal. It took her a good 15 minutes while all my other mares just pop em out.

 

[Magic]

I've started checking on fetal position on my mares after their water breaks. I've had a few foals with a hoof over their head, or one leg back, and it's easier to find the respective body parts and get them into position before they are already coming out.

 

[Riverdance]

I had one with both legs back and it was really hard to get him delivered. He ended up coming out head and knees. He klived and she survived to foal again, but my hands werer black and blue for days because of the contractions.

I help with foaling by pullingt the foal when the mare contracts, but I do not check the position. I have not noticed that there is much time between the contractions of the water breaking and the contractions of pushing the foal out.

Unfortunatly, with two barn cameras, two alarms and me being here almost 24/7, it is amazing how many mares managed to have their foals when I was not looking.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Yes, every single time.

I sat, through having been told not to interfere, and watched what would have been the first Arab colt i had ever bred, die in the passage.

Since then I intervene at every possible chance I get.

Checking the foals position is common sense- what else are you there for except to give the mare every help you possibly can??

If you do not feel comfortable doing it have a more knowledgeable person run you through it- I do not know of many breeders who would not help and there must be one nearby.

 

[Tammie-C_Spots]

Usually by the time I get out to the barn after the alarm goes off the foal is already on their way out. On the few occations I was there at water breaking I did not want to interfere as all was going well. Once the first knee clears the mare then I can usually see if there will be any problems with front legs or head so I still stand back and wait. I know one popular book advises checking but when I recommend this book I say to skip that part as I don't agree with it as the rest of it is one of the best resources and has helped me do a few repositions by having it in my foaling kit.

So, no, I wouldn't go and check beforehand.

Tammie

 

[wcr]

I only stick my hand in there if I feel there is a problem. You are sticking a dirty arm in a pretty sterile environment and then I always have my mare flushed and on antibiotics to prevent infection.

 

[mini1]

We always stayed out of the way unless we did not see 2 hooves coming first.

Remember, every time you stick your hand in the birth canal, you are introducing bacteria and increasing the chance for infection. Even if you wear a glove and lube up first, your hand passes through all the urine and feces that were expelled in the early stages of birth and carries it into the birth canal.

Even with cameras in the barn and a dead sprint from the house to the barn, things were usually done by the time we got there.

Kelly

 

[REO]

Yes I do. And many's the time it was a good thing I did. In doing so, I've been able to birth foals that if I had waited and watched, they would not have been born alive. And the one time there was a red bag, I knew it. I was able to break the sac inside, reach in and pull the colt out in one explosive whoosh (the mare was pushing hard)

From her first push to the colt being born was 2-3 min. He never knew he was a red bag and jumped up all alert and healthy!

Yes I check my mares. I have learned it is best for MY mares and it's what works for us. Each of us do things the way that is best for us and there's many different ways.

 

[Windhaven]

Yes, I do check the position of the foal and have repositioned a few before they got to far. My foaling kit is also stocked with sterile exam gloves and sterile gel. I do not enter the mare with out a glove on. With a sterile glove on you have less chance of carrying dirt and germs in and it helps to keep your finger nails (in case you have long ones) from doing any harm to the mares inside lining.

 

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]Thanks everyone for their input. I've been very lucky in the past and have had easy births. It is humun nature, I feel, to stand back and hope all will be well and not to interfere unless nessesary (that had been my practice in the past). But I think perhaps as several have attested to, that it may be a more prudent practice, if you are there at the right time to check first?? [/SIZE]

Rabbit, I am not particularly squimish about reaching in to help discover the position, I guess I just never thought about it before, as I never had a problem, knock on wood

For those of you who perform this task, how far into the mares vagina is it to reach, say... the cervix? how far out of the womb ( how far along in the delivery) is the foal usually when you've checked position?

As far as introducing contaminants, I agree there could be a higher possibility of introducing contaminants. I have always pracitced having my postpartim mares lavaged before rebreeding. For me I believe it has given me a higher conception rate (JMO)

I was also interested in asking how many of you have used a refractometer to check the quality of the colostrum. Years ago I had never heard of a refractometer or of a colostrmeter? They are fairly inexpensive on EBAY.

Just curious

Thanks,

Joy

 

[REO]

I also check when they are pushing and pushing and the water does not break. In the past that has showed me a breech birth, once I was able to turn an upside down foal over, and one where both front legs were not coming, only head first! (the list goes on) And since I had not waited until the foal was in the canal, I was able to fix it early. No need for pushing the foal back then. And checking early is how I caught the red bag so early! A red bag means the placenta has separated early and that attachment is the only "air" the foal gets. No attachment, no air. There is no time to wait. I'm so glad I learned that here on the forum. I peeked inside and saw that red and broke it inside to get the colt out so fast! NO I'm not saying I'm any kind of expert but I DO do anything I can to get that foal born alive. I owe it to the foal, and the mare.

It breaks my heart to see people post that they lost their foal because they waited and by the time the vet came, it was too late and the mare was very hurt. I have lost my share of foals in the past and I KNOW how much it hurts. I wish it would never happen to anyone else ever again.

I'm Not saying there's a right or wrong way. I'm just sharing the way I do it.

I wish everyone a wonderful EASY foaling season!

 

[joylee123]

I also check when they are pushing and pushing and the water does not break. In the past that has showed me a breech birth, once I was able to turn an upside down foal over, and one where both front legs were not coming, only head first! (the list goes on) And since I had not waited until the foal was in the canal, I was able to fix it early. No need for pushing the foal back then. And checking early is how I caught the red bag so early! A red bag means the placenta has separated early and that attachment is the only "air" the foal gets. No attachment, no air. There is no time to wait. I'm so glad I learned that here on the forum. I peeked inside and saw that red and broke it inside to get the colt out so fast! NO I'm not saying I'm any kind of expert but I DO do anything I can to get that foal born alive. I owe it to the foal, and the mare.

It breaks my heart to see people post that they lost their foal because they waited and by the time the vet came, it was too late and the mare was very hurt. I have lost my share of foals in the past and I KNOW how much it hurts. I wish it would never happen to anyone else ever again.

I'm Not saying there's a right or wrong way. I'm just sharing the way I do it.

I wish everyone a wonderful EASY foaling season!

[SIZE=12pt][/SIZE]

I think I'm gonna cowboy up this year and get in the practice of checking, now that I've decide to get back into it. I have two foals due this year. Would it be possible for you to answer some of the questions I posted above? Like how far in ect..

Thanks,

Joy

 

[Miniv]

Yes, We check for the nose and two feet.........as the bubble appears. We've been able to catch things that way and readjust a foal early on.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

When I started out with Minis I didn't check, and all was fine. Then I experienced a dystocia, and lost the foal, even though I was there when the water broke and did all I could (with the vet talking to me on the cell phone while she drove to the farm).

Now I find it very easy to slip in and check for a nose and two feet just as, or before the bubble appears. I feel it is my responsability to do all I can to help the mare, and all my mares seem to appreciate me being there, once the water breaks. I leave them alone up until that point (watching with monitor and have an Equipage too). It is soo much easier to correct things early! Like others have said in a situation where a hoof is over the head, etc.

I bond with my mares throughout the year, I'm there if they get sick, so why wouldn't I share in this special time as well?? And the foals no my voice before they are born, so I'm familiar to them as well.

 

[minih]

Yes, We check for the nose and two feet.........as the bubble appears. We've been able to catch things that way and readjust a foal early on.

We pretty much do the same thing as above, have had to go in and pull a leg more forward, on a first time mare it made a big difference. We also do help the foal out some with the contractions if the mare is looking tired or having a little problem with the head.

 

[Christina_M]

We check the position of the foal to ensure that the front feet and head are all there and facing down. Please make sure that the hooves are facing down and the head is on top, because the foal can't come out upside down. We had a foal coming out upside down and since we caught him before the legs were out, we were able to push him back in. He rotated by himself and came out properly in the trailer on the way to OSU Hospital. If we had not assisted, he wouldn't be here today and we could have lost the mare also.

When assisting a mare with foaling, we pull when the mare is contracting. When pulling on the foals feet, remember that one foot should be pulled out 3-4 inches in front of the other. This is because the shoulders can't go through the birth canal at the same time; instead, they have to go through at an angle or one before the other.

I'm also studying up on foal CPR, just in case we get a red bag that needs resuscitated. (crossing my fingers that we don't)

 

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]Thank you all so much for your input and information! You are all awesome![/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Joy

[/SIZE]

 

[Miniv]

Yes, We check for the nose and two feet.........as the bubble appears. We've been able to catch things that way and readjust a foal early on.

We pretty much do the same thing as above, have had to go in and pull a leg more forward, on a first time mare it made a big difference. We also do help the foal out some with the contractions if the mare is looking tired or having a little problem with the head.

We do the same thing........It's hard to just sit back and watch when your mare is pushing and pushing....... Just have to remember to pull DOWN and at the same time the mare is doing her "push".

 

[HaazeMinis]

We also check position of the foal like REO does. It also helps that my husband is very experienced in difficult and routine deliveries because of birthing Bovine 20+ years since he is in the dairy industry, so he pretty much knows when the delivery isnt going quite right.

My vet is also on standby and is only less than 10 to 15 minutes from me so can get here fast if needed, but usually hubby has delivered them by the time the vet arrives if there was a problem.

I always let my vet know when my mares are closer to each mares due date so he has the heads up before the "big" event.

We had a VERY SCARY delivery just last year with a mare we were foaling out for one of my very good friends. The mare had lost her 06 foal due to unkown reasons since my friend missed the birth even though she had a camera system in place, but no halter monitor. So my friend was very scared to try to foal her out on her own since her and my vet lived further away from her place since lives in the sticks so the vets are at least an 45 to an hour away from her.

So we made the decision to foal the mare out and we are glad we did.

As it appears that the "previous owners" of this mare neglected to tell her that this particular mare had lost foals before!

So when she started her labor we realized right away something was wrong when hubby checked the mare. The foal had his head tucked and one of his front legs was over his head which was stuck on the top of the pelvic rim. Hubby had a really tough time repostioning the colt since the mare was VERY NARROW .

However he was able to repostion the foal and the colt was alive, but let me tell you he was trying to repostion that colt for a 10 minutes!

It was difficult to get and keep the mare standing when she was trying to push.Just as the vet & the owner pulled in hubby had him out ALIVE!

Upon further examination by the vet the mare appeared to be very narrow inside. wE would have lost this foal for sure and maybe the mare since the colt was BIG if we hadnt been there and hubby checked the postion before.So, needless to say my friend retired the mare from breeding and sold her as a "pet".

Well good luck everyone! I am getting excited about my new foals next year since some of them are sired by my new 29.00" refined, Black & White stallion with blue eyes. 1 by an outside 30' Black and White with Blue Eyes & of course the earlier foals by my Bay and White Stallion with blue eyes that we recently sold

We have a 3 foals due within a few more weeks !

Jeri