Getting a horse to show its neck

[kaykay]

okay this is my worst thing as a handler. I either over stretch the neck or i dont stretch it enough. How do you get that happy medium?? Drives me crazy! Maybe some of the experienced handlers on here can show us pics of a neck properly shown vs overstretched?? And some hints to acheive it PLEASE!!

THANKS

 

[Frankie]

What type of distance are you giving between you and the horse? Many like to stand away, make sure the judges see all the horse, but yet are standing too far. The horse has no choice. Some of us were talking about this at Nationals. Too, we found/saw/observed, that a horse baited too low, also stretched too far. Maybe Kyle could video tape, or take photos that might tell you how far out you are, and if it is too far. Then make adjustments needed.

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[Erica]

Well this is just my opinion - but I think that some horses just aren't built to give their neck with the shapely arch to it, as their neck don't sit on their shoulders right; other horses have a better set on their shoulders and come up naturally and more than likely with a little work in training you can get them to use it properly.

Here is a picture of one of my fillies - Erica's Cloverbud, last year as a late yearling and to me she is one that makes it really easy for me as she is able to show herself without me doing too much to her - but I love the way she comes up out of the shoulers and is able to hook herself.

 

[kaykay]

now see this is where i get confused. when i first started showing i was told the nose should always be pointing down not up. i think this is where im messing up. So its okay for the nose to be up??? thanks erica

 

[js1arab]

OK, I know I'll slaughter this explanation but I'll try anyway. Firstly, I agree with Erica that some horses are just more capable of it than others. But the biggest problem I see (and NO I don't claim to be an expert or to do it right myself all the time) is that people don't set their horse up right to allow for a proper neck stretch. The first thing a horse should do is "set" his hind end and rock back onto his haunches just a bit. This next part is hard for me to explain, but you need to bring the whole horse forward slighly without ever moving it's legs LOL. You basically just want him to lean in toward you, but just a fraction to level the croup. Then ask the horse to give it's neck. Most definatly something easier shown than explained. Erica's horse has a beautiful shoulder which set's back nicely and makes it easy to bring a neck out. But you can get even a mediocre neck to look better if you go through the whole set up process. So many just walk into the line e up and ask for the neck, but the horse is many times bearing most of it's weight on it's front end and tends to look "heavy" in the front end. If you get them on the backend just a bit it helps bring the shoulder back to "open up" the neck a bit. I'm sure that doesn't make a lick of sense to some folks. Like I said, I am much better at just showing what I mean than explaining LOL. Hopefully someone will come behind me and put this in clearer terms

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Oh, just wanted to add, I personally feel it is better to ask the neck to come up then out. In other words, look at the horse in the back ground of Erica's picture. See how the horse's head is in the air, well if that person now asked the horse to come out with it's neck , it would probably look quite nice. That also helps with the setting back the shoulder when done right.

 

[user 488]

Js1arab, I know exactly what you are saying.

The biggest misconception is that this halter thing is all about a neck. The body and legs must be in proper position with your horses weight distributed EVENLY on ALL FOUR FEET. Then ask for their neck................and not sticking straight out like a board because that is not the look anyone wants to see. A neck should come up out of the shoulders with a horse breaking at the throatlatch.

See how Erica's horse is not leaning forward? Now if that same horse did not have any weight on her back end the total look would be changed. No way could she come up and out of her shoulders like that. And Erica, I also agree. Many minis just do not have the neck to do that, but it still does not mean that all four feet should be planted on the ground without leaning forward.

So my advice would be not to put so much emphasis on that neck until your horse can stand in the proper position. This alone takes training. It just doesn't happen. Teach your horse how to rock back so if he does start leaning you can step towards him and he will shift his weight backwards.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

I for one am glad we're talking about this, I am completely new at showing and I somehow am expecting myself to be able to teach a 1 1/2 yr colt how to set up and show some neck, when I haven't even shown in the first place! I don't want to royally screw him up by teaching him the wrong things so I am glad we're talking about this, how to set up the horse and rocking them back a little to set the back legs, then leaning them forward ever so slightly...I am able to do it with my gelding, but he must have had a lot of time put into him because he is just an angel, pretty much sets himself up and definately shows a great neck without me barely asking! Same with my appy filly, she's real easy to set up and show some neck, but this colt hasn't been trained yet and I want to make sure I know what I am doing before training him wrong!

I would love to hear more tips, anything to help train a good "set" and a great neck!

 

[zacharyfarms]

Well, I'm impressed. What great explanations. I would just like to be able to set up my horses for a decent registration photo

: I will try to work on this today to see if I can figure it out correctly..but do expect more questions. Thank you. Now how about the ears??? I do have one of those horse heads on a stick (stick horse) that you push its ears and it whinnies..my horses go crazy when they hear it. It really sounds real and will get them perked up but there has to be a simpler method since I don't see any of you all using that in the rings.. :lol: Any perky ear tricks.

 

[txminipinto]

UP, out, and just enough lean to level the top line. I admit, this can be hard, but it takes practice. I had an outside horse last year and a new horse this year, that were/are "turtles". They'd set up just fine but were afraid to stretch their necks. With practice every day, they both improved greatly. My "turtle" last year went on to capture a National Top Ten (after having a so-so local season) and my "turtle" this year is improving quickly!

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[js1arab]

Loco, if you have not had any experience in "setting" a horse. One of the first hings I'd practice with is just getting the horse to move any foot you ask without having to touch them. Again, maybe someone will come along again and explain what I mean in a bit LOL (thanks Vertical

: ) But I'll try. First, stand at your horses head and with slight pressure work on asking them to come forward or back and watch what they do with their feet. Once you learn to feel how much response you get per amount of pressure etc, you can start to ask for a specific placing. As soon as the horse gets the foot where you ask, praise them and always be sure to release pressure after any attempt by the horse to move like you've asked. This is one of those "you just gotta get a feel " for it kind of things. You will find that if you ask with pressure slightly to the side you can actually get independant movement from each of the four feet and can get a horse to move in just about any way you ask, forward, back, inward, outward, heck, you can get them to cross their legs if you want, but the judges tend to frown on that :bgrin Anyway, spend lots of time practicing all this as well as how not to move at all. Once you get the legs down, the rest will fall into place much easier. Good luck and keep asking. Curiosity may be bad for cats, but it can be a good thing for people

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[MiniHoofBeats]

Thanks very much for your input!! I know I see some people who with just slight pressure and angle on the nose, can set up their horse perfectly square! I just don't get it lol I understand it, I tried to work it on my pinto filly just to see if she understood me (my friend could do this with her just perfectly) but whenever I try something, it never works! Sometimes I wonder if i'm just not able to perform any darned horse trick!

So anyhow, what I get from you is to put pressure, either back for back legs or forward for front legs, and if I angle say back and left, to praise when they move that specific foot...right? What if I push back and left, and they move their front foot? do I continue to put pressure even if they move every foot, until they move their back left foot and THEN release and praise? Do you know what I mean?

 

[Buckskin gal]

Great explanations and information!! :aktion033: Thanks for sharing! Mary

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I hope Bruce wont mind me using him as an example of how to teach this. He asks the horse to go UP first then teaches a little out..... First of all though if a horse doesnt have a neck SET ON in the right place he isnt ever going to get the lift and out out of it.... This is the problem with many lower set necks. I will show you some good example and then my mistakes which make the same horse look lower necked and ostrich forward like (sort of like when a goose chases you).[/SIZE]

Bruce stands up straight and lifts his arm....doesnt get way out in front and pull the neck out.... lift up.

another example of lifting and then getting attention... I think Indys neck is right on this pic also

Here I am asking princess too far forward with not enough lift.... makes her look lower in the neck set. she is built just like Indy but you cant see that here... my bad!

Again asking Steel too far forward and not enough lift.

... can make all the difference in the world!

Lyn

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Maybe I can take a snap at it.

This mare is stretching forward too much, plus her front legs aren't set up properly. She doesn't have that natural arch neck that I like. However that neck is 100% natural no sweating, so thats a plus.

Heres Red. He is set up perfectly, neck set decent, little streched forward, but has the archy look he has. Only flaw is his neck is thick and needs to be sweated.

Here is what a neck set IMO should look like. Not a mini but a pony.

 

[kaykay]

wow great pics and examples thanks!! yep i think i was messing up with the whole nose down thing. Guess that was bad advice LOL. ok im going to practice going up first.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Something else I do wrong is stand way too close to the horse.... if you set the back feet first and then ask them to step up with the front and then you take a couple steps back and lift.... your horse will respod with less leaning into you and more expression with his head and neck I watched Joel White work his halter horses at nationals.... he teaches them Whoa and stand then goes out to the very end of a long lead and walks around the horse keeping the horses attention and correcting it each time it moved... then in the ring he backed WAAAAY off the horse and held the lead up and voila! a statue is born, upheaded and still.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[whitney]

Great advice, thanks EVERYONE!

 

[js1arab]

Loco, I want to be careful not to wander too far off Kay's neck question, but since the feet are the first part LOL. What I personally would do if I asked for a hind left and got any other foot would be to release the pressure because they did try, but I would calmly and quietly say no. I would reset them and ask again. I would keep doing that until I got the foot I wanted then I would go overboard with good boy/girl praises the first time or two. After the first time or two a simple long slow goooood will work. The key is to always release pressure if they move any foot the first few times. If you keep pressure on or scold too hard or loud, they will be afraid to move anything and will start locking up and unfortunately it is easy to let your ego get in the way and get frustrated and I am ashamed to say I learned that lesson the hard way once and had a heck of a time starting over. I am now much more careful and less egotistical

: Feel free to e-mail me anytime you'd like if you ever want help with anything. I certainly don't know it all - maybe I think I know more than I do LOL, but I'm willing to help wherever I can :bgrin

 

[wildoak]

I watched Joel White work his halter horses at nationals..

Joel is a joy to watch working his horses, they are so tuned in to him.

Great explanations here. It's always easier said than done, but setting up properly and getting that responsiveness to your very slight cues are the key. Watch most of the top trainers work a halter horse and you see what little movement it takes on their part to get a reponse. You train a riding horse to respond to very slight subtle cues from the saddle, and a halter horse should learn to respond just as nicely.

Jan

 

[mininik]

"Watch most of the top trainers work a halter horse and you see what little movement it takes on their part to get a reponse. You train a riding horse to respond to very slight subtle cues from the saddle, and a halter horse should learn to respond just as nicely."

There is more to this, too. Those top trainers are showing SHOW horses both in Halter and performance. The great majority are not able to be pocket pets besides. In the barn they treated well, not practiced to death but also not sugar coated, either. Horse and trainer have a working business partnership, both have a job to do and they know it. That's where I see a lot of non-pro Miniature handlers go wrong; being best friends with their horses to a fault.