Heidi.....being a prankster
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cassie
Well-Known Member
oh Heidi, you poor thing! lol I remember Hudson (the little colt that was born at my house ) was a terror! I had so many bruises from him! and he broke the skin a few times.... hope you aren't too battered and bruised :/
stay safe lol
stay safe lol
LittleRibbie
Well-Known Member
Hes actually been very good the last few days but Ive really had to be on my toes...Im being much firmer and if he just attempts to play rough I leave him standing there and walk away with no scratchies....he misses the scratchies. Scarlet is just a doll baby and PNut had loosened up a bit too!!
Eagle
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MountainWoman
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Love, love, love!!!!!
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OMG!! I just love the pictures -- but someone should have noted on the thread title to go pee before reading!!!
I just love this one.....
I just love this one.....
LittleRibbie
Well-Known Member
Thank you Renee, it was the first pedi for the kids and they did really well. Little wormy wiggly but Skiff managed to hold on and Tony, the farrier, didn't spit his darn chew anywhere on the property today....that's always a good sign!! Sneeker is really trying hard to be good but does manage to get a bite in when ever he feels the urge and thinks he can get away with it. He's growing like a weed and yet Scarlet isn't getting any taller...just chunkier, I thing she has her moms full figure. Im still only putting 1 horse in at a time with Holly and baby and change it up a couple times a day.....some shes good about... others...not so much. I don't let PNut or Scarlet out w/anyone yet w/o halters on..its a royal PITA but Im truly too chicken. When I let the 2 kids play together Sneeker is really way to hard on Scarlet , running her in circles and chasing and rearing and biting her ...then she runs to PNut who wants to kick the heck out of Sneeker.
So anyway we are still going slow and I just hope that by next week we will have made some progress. They do play from fence lines, its just the mommas that Im not too trusting with at this point.
Diane, I like that pic too...that's just how PNut pushed Scarlet around for the first week...poor lil Scarlet couldn't do a thing w/o moms head up her bum!!!
So anyway we are still going slow and I just hope that by next week we will have made some progress. They do play from fence lines, its just the mommas that Im not too trusting with at this point.
Diane, I like that pic too...that's just how PNut pushed Scarlet around for the first week...poor lil Scarlet couldn't do a thing w/o moms head up her bum!!!
cassie
Well-Known Member
glad Sneeker is settling down funny little kid!
I too, love that pic of Peanut and Scarlet! she is such a good mummy!
I too, love that pic of Peanut and Scarlet! she is such a good mummy!
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paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
You ladies are ssooooo funny!!! Totally smiled and laffed thruout this thread. It's great!
The two bubbies are gorgeous. It will be interesting to see if Scarlett stays chestnut/white or eventually goes grey. I can't tell on her brother with that lovely shade of bay he is...
As to your ??ing the red - just means that not only is your stallion heterozygous for black but so are both of those mares. You also know that Nick is heterozygous for tobiano since Cam is solid. So Nick's color genetics look like this - Ee,aa,Tt - he isn't bay so he has the two little a's. There probably isn't anything else in Nick's coloring - but not positive about that.
Since Pnut is grey but had a solid bay - she is also heterozygous black w/ at least one grey gene - EeA?G?. EDIT- she could have been chestnut/sorrel - eeA?G?. EDIT. That one headshot of Cam, I would swear that he was going to go grey, but then the rest - don't know for sure. Love his bay coloring!! My bays don't seem to have that pangare gene and are predominantly a bright red shade. I have had a couple that are very, very dark bay and one who is considered a "black bay" by Arab world (could be a dark smutty bay? Currently no way to test for "smutty".). If both of her Pnut's turn grey later - then you are back to not knowing as she could have only one grey gene and still always have a grey foal, since each time you would have at least a 50% chance of grey. Any horse that gets a "G" is going to be grey(shade out to solid "white" ), eventually. Also, need to put a ? on her bay gene as she could be homozygous for bay. You can't tell on a chestnut if they got the bay gene or not. Do you know if she was a pinto when born?
And the bay tobi mare is EeA?T?. Sneeker could carry a bay gene from his dam - you know that he doesn't get one from his sire - ee, a?, T?. Scarlet is ee, a?, T?, g? ...
It's really cool that you got two similar shade chestnut foals with similar Tobi markings in the same year!! Isn't color a weird and fascinating subject? Who knows - as more info is found out about colors, that may change the genetic "look" of your minis (the lettering and what they can produce).
Didn't I read somewhere on this thread that you have one more foal coming? What is that momma like?? Is your other mare the chestnut and white I saw in at least one photo? Or is that another mini?
IF Nick is bred to a chestnut mare, you still have a chance of a black based foal - because he has one black gene himself (E). The chestnut mare will always pass on a red gene (e)...
That is how I got a black colt out of a chestnut mare that I have. Actually we knew the foal would be black based because his sire is homozygous for black - but he'd only get the little e from his dam. So our colt is Ee, aa (he's not bay, so even tho his dam carries a bay gene, he didn't get it). His sire is homozygous for Tobi so we know that he has one T, but his dam is hetero so we don't kno until we test whether he got two T's. If our colt remains a stallion, and we breed him to some of our current mares - we can get chestnut babies. We can get chestnuts that are silver and bay carriers. OR we can get silver black or silver bay, or no silver at all.
The one filly I got this year, the 3rd for the same cross, looks like she MAY be homozygous for Silver. So exciting - I haven't had her tested yet. I've been surprised how hard it can be to get the homozygous Tobianos and Silvers! Even when breeding a homozygous Tobi (TT) to a heterozygous Tobi Tt) - 100% chance of Tobi, 75% of homozygous, but with my crosses only getting Tt. Our current stallion is Zz (silver), and even when bred to a ZZ mare, I've only gotten heterozygous Zz. This is an older mare and didn't produce a foal this year and not sure she will later. According to some of the research I've done - the T gene can lock onto one or the other of the black gene of an Ee horse - meaning that every bay/black foal is Tobi and chestnut foal is solid or vice versa. I didn't breed any mares back this year - as we can only feed/care for so many and now I have 8 acres full of ponies... Again, color is so fascinating!!
The two bubbies are gorgeous. It will be interesting to see if Scarlett stays chestnut/white or eventually goes grey. I can't tell on her brother with that lovely shade of bay he is...
As to your ??ing the red - just means that not only is your stallion heterozygous for black but so are both of those mares. You also know that Nick is heterozygous for tobiano since Cam is solid. So Nick's color genetics look like this - Ee,aa,Tt - he isn't bay so he has the two little a's. There probably isn't anything else in Nick's coloring - but not positive about that.
Since Pnut is grey but had a solid bay - she is also heterozygous black w/ at least one grey gene - EeA?G?. EDIT- she could have been chestnut/sorrel - eeA?G?. EDIT. That one headshot of Cam, I would swear that he was going to go grey, but then the rest - don't know for sure. Love his bay coloring!! My bays don't seem to have that pangare gene and are predominantly a bright red shade. I have had a couple that are very, very dark bay and one who is considered a "black bay" by Arab world (could be a dark smutty bay? Currently no way to test for "smutty".). If both of her Pnut's turn grey later - then you are back to not knowing as she could have only one grey gene and still always have a grey foal, since each time you would have at least a 50% chance of grey. Any horse that gets a "G" is going to be grey(shade out to solid "white" ), eventually. Also, need to put a ? on her bay gene as she could be homozygous for bay. You can't tell on a chestnut if they got the bay gene or not. Do you know if she was a pinto when born?
And the bay tobi mare is EeA?T?. Sneeker could carry a bay gene from his dam - you know that he doesn't get one from his sire - ee, a?, T?. Scarlet is ee, a?, T?, g? ...
It's really cool that you got two similar shade chestnut foals with similar Tobi markings in the same year!! Isn't color a weird and fascinating subject? Who knows - as more info is found out about colors, that may change the genetic "look" of your minis (the lettering and what they can produce).
Didn't I read somewhere on this thread that you have one more foal coming? What is that momma like?? Is your other mare the chestnut and white I saw in at least one photo? Or is that another mini?
IF Nick is bred to a chestnut mare, you still have a chance of a black based foal - because he has one black gene himself (E). The chestnut mare will always pass on a red gene (e)...
That is how I got a black colt out of a chestnut mare that I have. Actually we knew the foal would be black based because his sire is homozygous for black - but he'd only get the little e from his dam. So our colt is Ee, aa (he's not bay, so even tho his dam carries a bay gene, he didn't get it). His sire is homozygous for Tobi so we know that he has one T, but his dam is hetero so we don't kno until we test whether he got two T's. If our colt remains a stallion, and we breed him to some of our current mares - we can get chestnut babies. We can get chestnuts that are silver and bay carriers. OR we can get silver black or silver bay, or no silver at all.
The one filly I got this year, the 3rd for the same cross, looks like she MAY be homozygous for Silver. So exciting - I haven't had her tested yet. I've been surprised how hard it can be to get the homozygous Tobianos and Silvers! Even when breeding a homozygous Tobi (TT) to a heterozygous Tobi Tt) - 100% chance of Tobi, 75% of homozygous, but with my crosses only getting Tt. Our current stallion is Zz (silver), and even when bred to a ZZ mare, I've only gotten heterozygous Zz. This is an older mare and didn't produce a foal this year and not sure she will later. According to some of the research I've done - the T gene can lock onto one or the other of the black gene of an Ee horse - meaning that every bay/black foal is Tobi and chestnut foal is solid or vice versa. I didn't breed any mares back this year - as we can only feed/care for so many and now I have 8 acres full of ponies... Again, color is so fascinating!!
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Eagle
Well-Known Member
wow Paula, that was very interesting to read
My stallion was very similar to Nick in colouring and I had a mare like Peanut too. My 2 together had several sorrel pinto colts that all greyed out.
LittleRibbie
Well-Known Member
'all greyed out"...oh no please!!
Paula that was interesting and had to reread. I wish I knew more about PNut as a youngster. If I get a minute I will try to find her papers and see if I can find any info on her sire/dam. All I know is that in the 5 years I/ve had her she is getting lighter and lighter. From a pretty silver grey to almost white now. I was told holly has never had sorrel baby w/2 breedings to Nick ( previous owner )...I guess time will tell if Sneeker stays sorrel
These were the only 2 mares I had bred this year...I had planned on possibly breeding Silver Belle but she passed away earlier this year.
I think it might have been diane that posted pics some time ago that really showed the time lapse and coat color changes...it was so neat to see.
Right now they are all the color of mud!!!
Paula that was interesting and had to reread. I wish I knew more about PNut as a youngster. If I get a minute I will try to find her papers and see if I can find any info on her sire/dam. All I know is that in the 5 years I/ve had her she is getting lighter and lighter. From a pretty silver grey to almost white now. I was told holly has never had sorrel baby w/2 breedings to Nick ( previous owner )...I guess time will tell if Sneeker stays sorrel
These were the only 2 mares I had bred this year...I had planned on possibly breeding Silver Belle but she passed away earlier this year.
I think it might have been diane that posted pics some time ago that really showed the time lapse and coat color changes...it was so neat to see.
Right now they are all the color of mud!!!
Eagle
Well-Known Member
Heidi, I know my kim was born Sorrel as there is a pic of her as a baby on her passport but when I got her she was grey, over the the next few years at the age of about 6 she started to turn white. She was a lovely clean white though which I personally prefer to the grey. I was more disappointed with my colt Dipinto greying out as he was a pintaloosa
Here is kim
Here is kim
LittleRibbie
Well-Known Member
Renee...never never would I have thought she could ever have been sorrel..gray but never sorrel. Thanks for posting these pics
Guest
Heidi, what's Peanut's registered name. Maybe I can find what her sire and dam were, and we can make an educated guess as to her original color genes.
LittleRibbie
Well-Known Member
Thanks diane, give me a bit to find it, Im getting ready to paint this room so have lots of stuff in boxes but I think I know where it is.
On another note..did you get that rain storm today....it was the hardest rain Ive ever seen here. Pine tree knocked down and a couple pretty large branches from several others..and the usual palm fronds littering the yard. All pastures were flooded but I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly it all went away. Hope you had no damage!
On another note..did you get that rain storm today....it was the hardest rain Ive ever seen here. Pine tree knocked down and a couple pretty large branches from several others..and the usual palm fronds littering the yard. All pastures were flooded but I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly it all went away. Hope you had no damage!
LittleRibbie
Well-Known Member
Well that wasn't too hard to find LOL Tinsel Town Spidergirl....Reg No. 224462A.......Im looking now for her actual papers so I can get you more info. Thank you, Diane
paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
Awww... I would have to name a baby Tinsel! What a neeattt name! (though it sounds like it's a farm name on her, it could be used for a name).
OK - grey horses are born a "solid" color - black, bay, chestnut/sorrel, palomino, buckskin. They are not born "grey". In fact, if you have a "grey" baby - more than likely it's going to be black (some black foal coats are called "gun metal grey" - seen in a lot of TB) or a silver black. As they age, the "solid" color slowly gets exchanged for white hairs until they are completely "white". Some will go thru very beautiful color changes with very definite colors. A chestnut will often go thru a period where the body is called "rose grey". I think the ones that get those wonderful large dapples are usually bay base color. Some will have their bodies change faster than their mane and tails - meaning their bodies can go almost to completely white but they will still have a black mane and tail (born black or bay). Now - a grey will have black skin under all that white hair and unless they have white facial markings they should have a black muzzle and inner ear, genitalia etc... White makings on the face, legs and genitalia will have your usual white skin under the real white hairs. Some greys will have a "flea bit" appearance, some will get the "bloody shoulder" markings.
Most color breeders (appaloosa, paint, pintaloosa, palomino, buckskin, champagne, silver) will try to avoid any grey horses if they can. Sometimes it's not always avoidable(good horses and bloodlines out weigh the color grey) and they just either hope they get babies w/o the grey gene or "grin and bear it" if they get a grey baby.
I had one grey arab mare and I just never wanted to breed her to our Shetland stallion. We knew she was heterozygous for grey (Gg), but both of her two foals by a bay arab stallion turned grey (one born black stayed black until she was almost 5 yrs old - then went almost pure white in less than 2 years. The 2nd - born bay - was already turning white with her foal coat shed) and I just wasn't interested. Now, I wish I had - she was a small mare at 14.2, but was big boned with a lot of substance and I would have loved to know what she'd have produced by our Shetland stallion. Especially since my very petite, refined 14.1 hh arab mare produced a 1/2 shet that matured as tall as she was AND with more substance (he simply looked like a pony!!) sigh...
There are known lines in Arabs that turn grey(white) really fast and others that are slower ... Also, a lot of grey horses have issues as they age with melonomas - another reason I shied away from breeding a grey mare. I'd been working with our vet clinic and it was painful dealing with clients that had greys that developed melanomas. And expensive as well.
I don't know if minis and shetlands get the melanomas or not. I assume they do...?? I know that there are some grey minis/shetlands that turn white at different rates - just like in the Arabs.
OK - grey horses are born a "solid" color - black, bay, chestnut/sorrel, palomino, buckskin. They are not born "grey". In fact, if you have a "grey" baby - more than likely it's going to be black (some black foal coats are called "gun metal grey" - seen in a lot of TB) or a silver black. As they age, the "solid" color slowly gets exchanged for white hairs until they are completely "white". Some will go thru very beautiful color changes with very definite colors. A chestnut will often go thru a period where the body is called "rose grey". I think the ones that get those wonderful large dapples are usually bay base color. Some will have their bodies change faster than their mane and tails - meaning their bodies can go almost to completely white but they will still have a black mane and tail (born black or bay). Now - a grey will have black skin under all that white hair and unless they have white facial markings they should have a black muzzle and inner ear, genitalia etc... White makings on the face, legs and genitalia will have your usual white skin under the real white hairs. Some greys will have a "flea bit" appearance, some will get the "bloody shoulder" markings.
Most color breeders (appaloosa, paint, pintaloosa, palomino, buckskin, champagne, silver) will try to avoid any grey horses if they can. Sometimes it's not always avoidable(good horses and bloodlines out weigh the color grey) and they just either hope they get babies w/o the grey gene or "grin and bear it" if they get a grey baby.
I had one grey arab mare and I just never wanted to breed her to our Shetland stallion. We knew she was heterozygous for grey (Gg), but both of her two foals by a bay arab stallion turned grey (one born black stayed black until she was almost 5 yrs old - then went almost pure white in less than 2 years. The 2nd - born bay - was already turning white with her foal coat shed) and I just wasn't interested. Now, I wish I had - she was a small mare at 14.2, but was big boned with a lot of substance and I would have loved to know what she'd have produced by our Shetland stallion. Especially since my very petite, refined 14.1 hh arab mare produced a 1/2 shet that matured as tall as she was AND with more substance (he simply looked like a pony!!) sigh...
There are known lines in Arabs that turn grey(white) really fast and others that are slower ... Also, a lot of grey horses have issues as they age with melonomas - another reason I shied away from breeding a grey mare. I'd been working with our vet clinic and it was painful dealing with clients that had greys that developed melanomas. And expensive as well.
I don't know if minis and shetlands get the melanomas or not. I assume they do...?? I know that there are some grey minis/shetlands that turn white at different rates - just like in the Arabs.
paintponylvr
Well-Known Member
Hey Ladies!!! I've re-read my color post (#250 on page 25) and Pnut could be eeA?G? - which would have made her born a chestnut... I edited my post, but not sure it makes sense.
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From preliminary looking, I believe she is a chestnut/sorrel and was registered with a black mane and tail! LOL.
I'll post the whole of the information when I get home, since I'm having to do some searching to go back more than 3 generations and create a "standard-style" AMHA pedigree format combining the different registries. It should be something you can keep in your records, Heidi, when I'm done.
I'll post the whole of the information when I get home, since I'm having to do some searching to go back more than 3 generations and create a "standard-style" AMHA pedigree format combining the different registries. It should be something you can keep in your records, Heidi, when I'm done.
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