I usually don't post political topics

[Katiean]

I do not care what is said about Obama's past. The here and now speaks volumes for it's self. What good does it do to say you are ending one war while you are starting yet another? Also countries that were our ali's are getting pretty ticked of with us. Who really cares if he (obama) went to any school. What I care about is what he is doing NOW. And wasn't that yet another vacation that his wife just took their daughters and her mother on and we, get to foot the bill for. Here trip to France she took 900 support people with her. How many did she take this time?

 

[weebiscuit]

Way to go, ladies! My respect factor for several people on this thread has gone WAY up with this reasoned discussion.

I mean, my God...I just agreed with WeeBiscuit about something political!

ROFLMBO!!! See??? We all CAN find redeeming qualities in each other, not matter WHAT our political persuasion!

By the way- I think maybe two people would remember me from my college days and I only got out eight years ago!

Between being a transfer student from a community college, living off-campus and being in a small major...well...I didn't get around much.

Leia

Leia, I think maybe ONE person might remember me from my college days, and that's only because she ended up teaching at the same school I did!

When I was in college I was married with two kids, plus held down a 20 hour per week job. I went to class and then got the heck off campus. Never was part of the college life one bit and never even had a cup of coffee in the student union. My college years were NOT fun, not full of parties, not a social event for me at all!

 

[Pepipony]

Kinda sad that we as Americans cant just like or dislike someone based on facts. We have to use emails to support our like/dislike. Seems like people no longer can look up facts or check out things on their own, they rely on emails. My mother is a great one for this. Seems that just so long as the email SOUNDS plausible or says something that she likes, then it must be true. Emails can be written and then forwarded by anyone, for any reason. Doesnt mean they are true. Just like 'news' mouthpieces ( not actual reporters, whom are supposed to report fact without imparting their personal spin) can say anything. Doesnt mean it has actual basis in fact.

Think about that email in those terms. So it states that there is nothing that makes him 'human'. Guess those pictures of him in his college days were ever shown? It asks about his girlfriends. Ok, so were are Bushs girlfriends, Palins boyfriends etc? When an email makes a statement about any political figure, ask yourself if the same can be true of the one you like.

So what if Obama or his wife went on vacation. Everyone needs one. If the arguement is the fact that they/he/she went, then you have to ask if it was ok for any President to take a vacation. For arguements sake I mention Bush. He took vacations, he actually had more 'vacation' time than nearly any other President and he was at war as well. So then what about Michelle 'taking over 900 in support staff'. Is that true? If it is, did she request those people or are they sent no matter the First lady? Mrs Bush went to , I think it was Isreal, was she allowed support staff or was it ok for her and not Michelle? If it isnt ok for either that is fine. But sometimes I think we do this 'do as I say and not as I do' , when it comes to deciding what is right or wrong.

 

[Carriage]

Its an interesting exercise to read through numerous responses like this as it gives somewhat of a pulse to the thinking of a range of individuals.

I was glad to see that "Snopes" was only used briefly then dropped. Anytime that Snopes is held up as a paragon of fact I become concerned.

It is interesting to see how the two parties have melded in position and thought process. A position on an issue that was firmly rejected 10 or 20 years ago, by one party or the other, is now embraced by both parties. They insist that they are diametrically opposed yet as time progresses they become more alike than they ever care to admit. This speaks to the effectiveness of social engineering. I know, gasps and shock all around...

Those in both parties who claim to research thoroughly, really don't as evidenced by their source material, AND label those who really do as "conspiracy theorist" or any other manner of slur.

OK, I'll do a brief "hit" on both parties just to see where they will twist and squirm to.....

Lets start with the republican/neocon and touch on the original thread,

IF our President was indeed foreign born as so many insist, WHY in the sam hill didn't the tubby trunks investigate this matter in full PRIOR to the election?

Oh but wait there is more,... since the election said tubby trunks have been having conniptions over pretty much EVERYTHING our president has done. YET, still no public/ congressional investigation to solve the matter once and for all. See here's the thing, IF our President is foreign born, his election to President would be unlawful, making everything he has done unlawful AND null and void. Seems like the easiest reset button one could ask for as it would reset the clock to the tubby trunks boy, President Bush. Now, one must ask oneself, "Why wouldn't they want to do this?"

The answer to this last question is not as easy as one might expect and leads to the unraveling of much that is hidden from casual view. I assure you it is not something that "fair and balanced" is gonna touch!

Now the long ears,

Candidate Obama had his finger on the pulse when he spoke of returning jobs to America and bringing our troops home.

VERY shortly (as in a few weeks) after taking office he quickly amended his stand on free trade by stating that America could not become "isolationist". Indeed free trade has expanded and more jobs have left.

Also our troops have not come home and while there is lip flapping about a DRAW DOWN in Afghanistan, our troops will not be coming home and a very large contingent will remain for the foreseeable future. Additionally, other countries have been added to the "hit" parade on this watch.

Now to be fair,

Neither party has done a comprehensive investigation leading to a full public disclosure as to our Presidents citizenship one way or the other.

Neither party seems in favor of bringing our troops home and both have expanded the "hit" parade.

Neither party has lifted a finger to correct the debilitating effects of "free" trade. BOTH have expanded what has been historically, a failed policy that has economically beheaded any country attempting to pursue it.

Now all of these (and a great deal more) are mere symptoms of a root problem without actually touching the root problem which neither side seems want to do. Anyone touching on the root problem either in the secular or spiritual realm is dismissed and labeled with all manner of slur.

We choose either Liberty or slavery with the choices we make. Increasingly, those that choose and insist on Liberty and all of its attendant responsibilities are told that they can't do that. That it can't possibly work and now it looks like both parties are in agreement on this issue and both will change factual history to suit their end. While ignorance can be feigned as an excuse, MANY times, it is willful ignorance as there is ample proof if one looks deeply and is committed to truth, no matter where the truth takes them. Those that have a grasp of the facts due to deep immersion in same and resulting-ly choose Liberty are now attacked by both parties.

Remaining a slave to your party definitely short circuits your ability to arrive at the truth. Over time I've wondered how many folk through-out history have been in a like situation where their country is literally burning around them and their fellow country folk either cannot or will not see through the veil held in front of them in order to see the truth and things as they really are. While its frustrating to see the end game and know where it is headed most likely, this isn't the first time, and it seems to be the nature of the slave. I just wish that my family didn't have to go along for the ride.

I do try to stay off these boards, but look in every once in a while, "Hoping" for "Change".

Bob's Bridges

"Please see us first before your next bridge purchase."

 

[Jill]

See if this "Snopes out"

A LOT of us had major concerns about Obama's background before the elections, and I'm not talking about where he was born.

Now look at what he has, and has not done, since elected. Who could be pleased with the results? If anyone has earned a pink slip... And Obama even said so himself.

From February 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HTftH9WIxQ

 

[Katiean]

See if this "Snopes out"

A LOT of us had major concerns about Obama's background before the elections, and I'm not talking about where he was born.

Now look at what he has, and has not done, since elected. Who could be pleased with the results? If anyone has earned a pink slip... And Obama even said so himself.

From February 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HTftH9WIxQ

My mother lost her job and a year later she found another. She worked that job for about a year. They cut hers and several other possitions. She is almost through the state extention and can't find a job. They also say that we are up for round two of the housing market. My brother just bought a house on 1/3 ac. The house didn't need repair and he paid $50,000 for it and the land. He has a 7 year morgage so he doesn't careif the prices drop again. He is paying 1/2 the amount for rent and it is paid for in 7 years. My question is just what has Obama done for Nevada?

I totally agree with Jill. Who could be pleased with what Obama has done?

 

[ohmt]

Katiean and Jill-i highly suggest you read politifacts to see what Obama has or has not done. They do a great job keeping up with promises he has made and where they're at.

 

[Jill]

Ohmt... Omg... You must be getting your news from NOT one of the two dozen or so sources I use. Honest to God, if you think most people in ur Nation are better off now than in January 2009, I don't know where to even base a discussion. Ironically, my own business is BOOMING... while my husband's, as many others, is fizzling. Luckily for our small family, I've always been the primary bread winner (as I tell H and the dogs, I "hunt money".) I'm just lucky enough to help people make the most of their life savings, and when economic times are scary, I gain more clients.

 

[Jill]

PS right now, Geitner is calling for higher taxes on Small Business -- when in the past, it's small business that has been able to lead us out of economic woes when taxes and regulation were reduced. I'm a small business owner, a member of several Chambers of Commerce and County Economic Development teams. If my corporate taxes are increased, while I love what I do, I need to make a good living. If pressed, I will reduce employees as will all small business owners I know will do. Top it off that Nancy Peloisi is advocating that the Federal government employee more people to get the economy going... that is not a good answer but it is the central them of the Progressive political agenda that while more popular on the left is also infecting the right. Bigger government always = equals smaller individuals.

 

[ohmt]

Now now, I don't appreciate words being put onto my mouth. I said nothing of the sort and I don't really understand the huge long negative response, but oh well. I was merely giving a suggestion. Most people don't realize there is a section on politifacts dedicated solely on following Obama and what he has or has not done. Politifacts is NOT a biased liberal source-nor is it a biased conservative source. I could care less how many sources you get your information from. For every one unbiased source I could find, I could probably find a good 10 that aren't.

 

[Carriage]

Guess things are still not bad enough. Looks like it will be yet another nose ring political season, again. If folk can't get past square one, there is no "hope" for "change". Merely changing the stripe of the fat little fox (Lil Timmi G fer example) who guards the hen-house is no change at all.

Here is the secret about our Presidents slogan, The change must be within you. Without that change, there is NO hope.

Enough for me, I hope everyone has a great day and we are enjoying warm sunshine.

Go drive a horse!

Bb

 

[shelia]

I hesitate to post here because I don't follow politics as closely as most of you, but it seems to me that political bashing has increased a lot over the years. The powers of the president have seemed to decrease over the years also.

I have also noticed from the news and from conversations with people that many countries seem to have the same problems we do. Too much outsourcing, too much unemployment, too much immigration and not enough money. I often wonder what has happened to the world. Was it because we became so global? Was it because our morals have declined? We used to refuse to accept products from countries that did not treat the citizens the way we thought they should be treated. Now American corporations have set up shop in these countries and are able to treat those citizens any way they want. We abolished slave labor many years ago, but we now seem to think it is okay to buy products from the countries who still use it. I find most of the aid we give to other countries is in the form of weapons, not food. (they leave that to Red Cross and such)

Our problems are much larger than just the president. How much power does a president really have? Nobody in office can seem to agree on anything anymore.

I know I may be a little off topic, but it is just my thoughts.

 

[tagalong]

Anytime that Snopes is held up as a paragon of fact I become concerned.

Carriage - Snopes is one of the better balances and fact-checkers out there on a wide variety of topics - and if you don't like what they say based on what they have researched, the links are ALWAYS provided so you can check things out for yourself. I become concerned when people dismiss such sources simply becuase they do not like what that source says - ergo, it must be "wrong" even if their facts are backed up. It is that type of lofty dismissal that concerns me, to be honest. God forbid ANYONE points out the fallacies and fraud that 99% of all viral emails are composed of - no matter what they are about. We can't have that type of nonsense going on, can we!

They must all be true!!!! Only.... not. Is it better to embrace those emails - or seek the facts?

ALL the decent factchecker sites provide links to back up what they say (and not just to supporting blogs/opinion pieces) - even Factcheck.org which does lean left. Even so, they go after Obama and the Democrats. Snopes and Politifact do not lean ANY direction. As was noted above, Politifact skewers or praises everyone and everything - regardess of political affiliation.

Now look at what he has, and has not done, since elected.

Yep - actually LOOK at it. Politifacts has everything listed meticulously and examined closely. Promises kept. Promises ignored. Things in the works. Lies. Gaffes. Pants on fire lies. Everything. And not just for Obama.

It is all there in black and white for those who can step out from under their party "banner" and care to check out the actual facts - both good and bad - for everyone. Good old non-partisan FACTS... which seem to be something to be sneered at or to have "concerns" about.

I'll add a link in case some wish to see what has happened to all those Obama promises... http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/browse/

Most people don't realize there is a section on politifacts dedicated solely on following Obama and what he has or has not done. Politifacts is NOT a biased liberal source-nor is it a biased conservative source. I could care less how many sources you get your information from. For every one unbiased source I could find, I could probably find a good 10 that aren't.

Exactly right. And sources should not include agenda-laden, extremely partisan talking heads, websites, columns, blogs or other opinion pieces - no matter what "side" they are on. Unless you make the attempt to use some of those from both "sides" and then sort through the rhetoric to try and find the odd tidbit of fact hidden within... but those kinds of "sources" depend on you not caring about what the actual facts may be... and simply buying into the rhetoric.

 

[Pepipony]

The sad fact is not many people can be unbiased. If its 'my party always right' , 'your party always wrong' then its quite hopeless. And rediculous. NO ONE can ever be everything for someone. Seems that people hold 'their' party up on a higher pedistal than their own family. Dont care if people dissagree about actual facts as they happen. But when they change facts, omit facts or do this 'do as I say, not as I do' thing, its just wrong.

 

[Carriage]

Well said Miss Sheila,

Political bashing is a large part of the problem. As to whether or not it has actually increased could be fairly debated as it has been done for eons. Part of the Hegelian Dialectic, it is absolutely necessary for the required divide and conquer technique that works SO well.

It is done on many fronts and in many ways. If you can prevent the populace from uniting around a core issue (say, Liberty) and standing firm, you win. All manner of distraction is held up in front of you to keep you busy and play on your emotions all in order to keep you ignoring the "man behind the curtain". That the primary, and "favorite" media media ****s continually use this tactic should be obvious, but it doesn't seem to be. Part of their job is to promote this behavior and if one really listens to their shtick, this infection constantly oozes out of their mouths.

Even when this is addressed directly with them and pointed out, they continue to follow the script rather than find some way to promote unity. Try it some time. Both parties and their shills do this. The last thing "they" want is for the slaves to come off the reservation so they keep you at each other throats. The absolute last thing that they can afford is for the spark of Liberty to firmly take hold again. ANY place that this starts to happen either here or abroad (say Libya), it is quickly and decisively stomped out. Despite this A.M.'s U.N. charge against Gaddaffi, I have been asking folk "What did he do?" Most have not known. Then there are those Snope-ites who think they know, but really haven't a clue. I'll give you a hint, its geopolitical and is based on money. Oh alright, one more hint, but that's IT! Its based on sound money.

As some would disbelieve me, perhaps you should check with "Snopes" first. If they don't confirm, well then I simply must be wrong... While "Snopes" is not as inaccurate as say Quackbusters, it is, non the less inaccurate. Bias and ignorance must be plugged into the equation, otherwise one is left with standing on less than solid ground or using factcheckeer to check factchecker to check...... Oi, no thank you, I'll use better factcheckers when I need to. Its called doing your own research. Please don't Tag, the analysis of your response shows you picking a somewhat inconsequential point to argue, while ignoring prime USDA meat. This too becomes a symptom the problem. If you leave no place for unity, you are left with factions and fractions.

I'm so sorry Katean, for your Mom's job loss. Many folk tried to warn about the end game of free trade and what it would mean, to no avail. It simply was a done deal, even with a full 80% of the American people AGAINST it. While its denied now, it was plain at the time that even some of the unions had a hand in passing it and sold their memberships out for the "ridiculous" hope of new markets. Even today the neocon will tell you with a straight face that free trade is simply marvelous and are VERY busy pushing for more misnomered "agreements". Hmmm... did you agree cause I sure didn't.

Well enough of this for today at least. I am really trying to stay outa the fray this time round as there are enough frustrations to a day as it is.

The shop beckons with one of my joys,

Bb

 

[tagalong]

Carriage - you seem to seek to stir up a fray almost everytime you post... so when it comes to saying you are "staying out of the fray", methinks thou doth protest too much.

Oi, no thank you, I'll use better factcheckers when I need to. Its called doing your own research. Please don't Tag, the analysis of your response shows you picking a somewhat inconsequential point to argue, while ignoring prime USDA meat.

IMO, that condescending tone lends nothing to a balanced discussion. That is not the way to go...

I do my own research, thanks - as I have said repeatedly in these threads. I am a skeptic and a cynic and will always look behind any so-called "facts". And I do not get all sanctimonious about one site as opposed to another one that does the exact same thing - nor do I think my opinion is superior to anyone else's. Snopes was brought up in this thread, so that was a point of conversation. They have "investigated" for more years than many of the others have even existed. Just another place to go to debunk nonsense and urban myths like viral emails. I am sorry that it does not meet with your superlative approval.

At least they provide links to back up what they say so you can check things out for yourself - crazy concept, I know...

 

[Miniv]

Sorry...but bringing Soros back up.... People poo poo about him, but please don't. I've been watching his activities for several years and he's got his fingers in lots of areas. It's kind of scary. Amazing what lots of money can do. Here's a link to the latest:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/27/critics-say-soros-trying-to-stack-courts/?test=latestnews

 

[Carriage]

"People poo poo about him, but please don't. I've been watching his activities for several years and he's got his fingers in lots of areas."

Yes miniv, I think you are right to keep an eye on him. His history clearly dictates that we should.

Peppi, re, "your party". This is precisely right and part of what I've long said

Katean, I will be praying for a better job for your Mom!

Tag, It's always interesting. Thank you for the superlative compliment.

In the end we are going to need to pull together and take care of each other because it appears that this could be quite the ride.

I hope that all have a great day.

Time to go wrassle steel,

Bb