I'm interested in hearing it from both sides

[SBrown]

When I sell a horse I expect to provide a Coggins and Health Certificate and would never ask a purchaser to pay for this. As far as I am concerned, this is the law in Texas. I also provide as much other information as possible....health records that includes vaccinations, farriers, dentistry and worming; pedigrees and foal information from the Studbooks; copies of any photos I have of the ancestors if the purchasers are new to miniature horses; photos of offspring or close relatives if I have them; information on a book on miniature horses and where to purchase it; copies of ads where their horse or it's sire, dam. etc. may have been featured....whatever I think the purchaser might be interested in. Yes, it certainly takes time but I just think it is good business, (Customer Service) and I have many repeat buyers.

 

[mizbeth]

Texas law states that any and all equines housed within 200 yards of another equine must have annual coggins testing. This law is extremely difficult to police and enforce. It is also stated that the individual transfering ownership (now, I don't know if this means seller or buyer) is responsible for the test.

Hi

I think the 200 yards statement above is required when one tests positive all horses stabled within 200 yards of that one must be tested. The Texas law does say that a coggins must be provided on all equine sales (except for foals 8 months and younger) or foals on their dams, but dams have to have a coggins. It does not say who is responsible for providing the test. Typically in my area we test all foals six months and over as most a weaned by that time. Then of course any horse entering a show grounds, exhibit area, sale, stockyard and so on must have one.

Beth

 

[wildoak]

My question was specifically aimed at the possibility of a positive Coggins, but whatever the reason - if you buy or sell a horse that dies before possession is transferred, that should be dealt with in a contract of sale which eliminates any guesswork. That said, I can't imagine being on either side of the situation. As a seller in most circumstances I would in good conscience have to offer at least a replacement.

More on the Coggins laws - in Texas you can be stopped on the road and asked for your Coggins papers, so if you haul here, best have them with you. I do to shows of course, but there have been plenty of times I was going to the vet or to a friends, etc that I didn't think to take my Coggins.

Jan

 

[txminipinto]

Texas law states that any and all equines housed within 200 yards of another equine must have annual coggins testing. This law is extremely difficult to police and enforce. It is also stated that the individual transfering ownership (now, I don't know if this means seller or buyer) is responsible for the test.

Hi

I think the 200 yards statement above is required when one tests positive all horses stabled within 200 yards of that one must be tested. The Texas law does say that a coggins must be provided on all equine sales (except for foals 8 months and younger) or foals on their dams, but dams have to have a coggins. It does not say who is responsible for providing the test. Typically in my area we test all foals six months and over as most a weaned by that time. Then of course any horse entering a show grounds, exhibit area, sale, stockyard and so on must have one.

Beth

Actually, in the last 5 or so years (I've been trying to find it), the law was changed to say that ALL equines housed within 200 yards of another must be tested. Nobody enforces it but a neighbor could get law enforcement involved if they wanted to be ugly. And yes, in TX, you better have your coggins on you if you're hauling a horse. I know several people who've been pulled over just for pulling a horse trailer.

If a horse on your property tests positive for EIA, it's routine to pull blood for a second test. If that tests positive, the horse must be quarantined at least 200 yards from all other horses or preferably euthanized, your farm will be quarantined for a set amount of time, and all horses on your property (as well as your adjoining neighbors) must be tested. You can't offer a replacement in this situation immediately as in all senses of the word, you are shut down from moving any and all horses until the state confirms that there are no more positive horses on your property.

 

[targetsmom]

Texas law states that any and all equines housed within 200 yards of another equine must have annual coggins testing. This law is extremely difficult to police and enforce. It is also stated that the individual transfering ownership (now, I don't know if this means seller or buyer) is responsible for the test.

Hi

I think the 200 yards statement above is required when one tests positive all horses stabled within 200 yards of that one must be tested. The Texas law does say that a coggins must be provided on all equine sales (except for foals 8 months and younger) or foals on their dams, but dams have to have a coggins. It does not say who is responsible for providing the test. Typically in my area we test all foals six months and over as most a weaned by that time. Then of course any horse entering a show grounds, exhibit area, sale, stockyard and so on must have one.

Beth

Actually, in the last 5 or so years (I've been trying to find it), the law was changed to say that ALL equines housed within 200 yards of another must be tested. Nobody enforces it but a neighbor could get law enforcement involved if they wanted to be ugly. And yes, in TX, you better have your coggins on you if you're hauling a horse. I know several people who've been pulled over just for pulling a horse trailer.

If a horse on your property tests positive for EIA, it's routine to pull blood for a second test. If that tests positive, the horse must be quarantined at least 200 yards from all other horses or preferably euthanized, your farm will be quarantined for a set amount of time, and all horses on your property (as well as your adjoining neighbors) must be tested. You can't offer a replacement in this situation immediately as in all senses of the word, you are shut down from moving any and all horses until the state confirms that there are no more positive horses on your property.

That was pretty much the law in Connecticut 35 years ago when my horses were caught in such a quarantine. It seems sad to me that in 35 years there has been little or no progress on this horrible disease. Sorry, off topic....

 

[Candice]

I'm not sure about all states, but here in Fl and I know it was so in NY when I lived there, Coggins are required by law. I would never consider consider buying a horse without one or selling one without one. Health papers also when required.

 

[Annabellarose]

I keep saying this (

LOL); I am not new to horses, but I am very, very new to Miniature Horses. I have been looking at Miniature Horses for sale/to buy for well over a year now and I encountered that thing about the seller pays if the sale is over $1,000 and the buyer pays if the sale is under $1,000. I can honestly say that I had never, ever seen that before in my life before I started searching for a Miniature Horse for sale/to buy! Before a bunch of people chime in to correct me, I am sure that there are people involved in/with other breeds that do this, but, my experience, the majority do not do this. I always order/pay for Coggins and health certificate when selling a "big" horse. I expect the horse to have a current Coggins, at least, when buying a "big" horse. If a seller told me I had to pay for it and I really, really, really wanted the horse, I would pay for it (and think, "What the heck!?"

), but, if I wasn't absolutely, positively, head over heels in love I'd pass over the sheer hassle of it. Bleck. As a buyer I want to give you my money for your horse and I want you to figure it out (even if it adds to my final price). It just sort of made me think that maybe those people were cheap and then, at first, I wondered if maybe they didn't do other routine things, like regular deworming and regular hoof trimming. No flames please, just my honest thoughts being a newbie to your world.

I really feel sorry for those of you that have to pay $200 for that stuff. Yuck! I always just schedule a farm call and the trip fee is $35 and I always have them draw blood from the entire herd (6 at the moment) while they are at the farm and I think the Coggins was $15 (per horse) the last time I had it done (in the Spring). So, if I only had one horse or one horse that I wanted to sell it would only cost me $50 for the Coggins and I think my vet charges $5 for a copy of the health certificate. I have never asked for a health certificate on a horse that I didn't have them draw blood from for a Coggins. A health certificate may cost more by itself, without a Coggins, I don't know.

Can you even get a health certificate without having them draw blood for a Coggins??? You realize you don't know something everyday!

 

[vvf]

For sellers that don't pay the coggins/health themselves.

Wouldn't it be easier to just add the price of a coggins to your asking price of the horse by the $200 (or whatever it costs) when you sell it in the first place?

I mean if the buyer is going to have to pay it anyway? This way it looks like the seller is covering it?

 

[mizbeth]

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readta...;ch=49&rl=1

This is link that I found that is most current, I think? It does say as you do, stables - boarding horses etc., that are owned by different people, stabled within 200 yards of each other are required to have coggins. My apologies, I only read part of the rule the other day as I was looking for something else. I did not complete all the reading regarding coggins. I was trying to determine if coggins was needed to run a horse "up the street" to a friends arena. We have a "new ag" person on duty in this area, so wanted to make sure all paperwork was in order as I understand that that "they are very efficient"

Oh and in this area a coggins runs around 25-30 dollars (unless it is rush) and as high as 50.00 on health cert at one Vet clinic.

 

[Shelley]

Am I the only one that thinks that now matter how much the horse is sold for, this really should just be covered by the seller?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I agree with you totally!

When I read an ad that says that coggins and health certificate are the responsibility of the buyer, it turns me

right off.

Before any horse leaves here, it has health papers, coggins, wormed, a booster shot and feet done! We want to

send them out at their best advantage!

Shelley

 

[txminipinto]

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readta...;ch=49&rl=1
This is link that I found that is most current, I think? It does say as you do, stables - boarding horses etc., that are owned by different people, stabled within 200 yards of each other are required to have coggins. My apologies, I only read part of the rule the other day as I was looking for something else. I did not complete all the reading regarding coggins. I was trying to determine if coggins was needed to run a horse "up the street" to a friends arena. We have a "new ag" person on duty in this area, so wanted to make sure all paperwork was in order as I understand that that "they are very efficient"

Oh and in this area a coggins runs around 25-30 dollars (unless it is rush) and as high as 50.00 on health cert at one Vet clinic.

Hey! Thanks for finding that! I'm going to bookmark it so I don't loose it again.

 

[HGFarm]

Again, some interesting reading regarding EIA and Coggins

http://www.donblazer.com/EIA/eia.html

The 'facts' page is VERY informative!

 

[txminipinto]

Again, some interesting reading regarding EIA and Coggins
http://www.donblazer.com/EIA/eia.html

The 'facts' page is VERY informative!

Ooooo, please be careful buying into this kind of proganda. While many horses do not die from EIA, the condition renders them an economic casuality for you and your neighbors. As long as you have an EIA positive horse, you are under quaratine and that means you can not move or sell horses. Period. EIA is essentially a chronic wasting disease and while they may live a long life with it, it not only affects you, but the horse owners around you.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

All of our horses are sold with a coggins, and out of state horses also get a health certificate. Oklahoma state law sounds similar to Texas.

For those complaining about the high cost of the farm call, why not haul the horse to the vet yourselves? It would cost me an arm and a leg too if I called the vet out for something like that.

 

[Annabellarose]

Ooooo, please be careful buying into this kind of proganda. While many horses do not die from EIA, the condition renders them an economic casuality for you and your neighbors. As long as you have an EIA positive horse, you are under quaratine and that means you can not move or sell horses. Period. EIA is essentially a chronic wasting disease and while they may live a long life with it, it not only affects you, but the horse owners around you.

Thank you, thank you! I was just sitting here shocked and horrified that some of you thought that it was okay not to test for EIA or that EIA wasn't a serious threat to all horses! A great link. EIAV at APHIS

EIA is real. EIA is serious. If you end up with an infected horse, your horse life is going to suck real hard, real fast. Also, if you don't want to do it for your piece of mind, do it for your neighbor's piece of mind and because it is the law in some places.

 

[Bunnylady]

I agree, it isn't the actual number of fatalities that one needs to count, it's the number with reduced "quality of life," which is perhaps much greater and harder to document.

I seem to remember a number of Banks Ponies that were taken off of Shackleford having positive Coggins tests a few years back. There was a huge public outcry, because these animals were to be destroyed (since they weren't adoptable.) They seemed perfectly healthy, so a compromise was reached, and they were put into a permanent quarantine facility. I don't remember who is footing the bill for that, though.

To get back to the OP, if I had a horse for sale, I would have a current Coggins on it, and say so in the ad. I would just work it in to the price of the horse. The cost of the test isn't that much, especially if it were done when the horse was getting its shots or other vet work at the same time. With the mosquito pressure we have around here, not doing the regular inoculations stands a fair chance of resulting in a dead horse, not merely an unsaleable one, so skipping the shots shouldn't be an option for a responsible horse owner.

But I do have to wonder, why haven't they come up with a vaccine for EIA yet? Is it because the little beasties mutate too rapidly (like human cold viruses?) I refuse to believe that it is some sort of conspiracy to keep horse owners paying for the Coggins tests every year!

 

[Annabellarose]

My sales page says that the buyer pays for both on a horse under $1,000, but until this year, and this market, it has never been an issue.

Excellent post and thank you for sharing your experiences.

Just curious and this not a loaded question, I promise, but now that you know that this "puts off" quite a few buyers, as you can see from this thread, and since you just hinted that it has never been an issue until this year and in this market (which I take to mean it is an issue for you this year and in this market), are you considering changing that policy (that the buyer pays for both on a horse under $1,000)? You didn't say how much you have to pay for a Coggins and a health certificate in your area and/or from your vet.

If sellers see that it "offends" (for lack of a better word) buyers, wouldn't a seller want to change that policy?

 

[Minimor]

Easy enough fix to this 'problem'--if a coggins & health paper is $100 or $200, then a $500 asking price just becomes $600 or $700. Buyer is still paying for the health papers, he just doesn't realize it.

You have to remember though that this forum, popular as it is, does not make up the bulk of prospective buyers out in the real world. In spite of how many on here say they don't inquire on horses that don't have sale prices listed....or won't buy from sellers that don't provide the coggins/health papers on a $200 horse...those sellers that don't list prices on their ads and/or that don't give coggins/health papers on lower (or any) priced horses--those sellers do keep selling horses. I know plenty of them, and they do sell their horses. So that means that in spite of people here saying they won't buy those horses, there are still plenty of other people that do buy from those farms. so, something that is "offensive" to forum members must not be "offensive" to everyone...and the forum opinion isn't necessarily a reason to change one's selling policy.

 

[Annabellarose]

You have to remember though that this forum, popular as it is, does not make up the bulk of prospective buyers out in the real world. In spite of how many on here say they don't inquire on horses that don't have sale prices listed....or won't buy from sellers that don't provide the coggins/health papers on a $200 horse...those sellers that don't list prices on their ads and/or that don't give coggins/health papers on lower (or any) priced horses--those sellers do keep selling horses. I know plenty of them, and they do sell their horses. So that means that in spite of people here saying they won't buy those horses, there are still plenty of other people that do buy from those farms. so, something that is "offensive" to forum members must not be "offensive" to everyone...and the forum opinion isn't necessarily a reason to change one's selling policy.

Oh, of course (!), I was just curious if sellers that felt that these issues (Coggins, health certificate, private treaty, etc.) were affecting their sales were open to the possibility of changing.

I really hate that I missed your reply, Castle Rock Miniatures, as I was really interested in what you had to say based on your previous (excellent) post.

I hope that you will reconsider posting and I hope that I did not offend you, as that was not my intent at all. I am just curious about all of this. This is a new breed for me and I am trying to learn everything that I can and I am trying to get a feel for everything. I am noticing that there are a lot of differences that seem to be very specific to the Miniature Horse breed and market (especially). It does not mean that those things are bad, just that they are very different from what I am seeing and have seen in other breeds.